Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 19, 2014
9:00 a.m. Workshops
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09:04:21 [Sounding gavel]
09:04:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:04:24 The chair yields to Mr. Harry Cohen.
09:04:26 >> Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:04:28 Our prayer this morning will be presented by our clerk
09:04:31 Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
09:04:33 Please stand for the prayer and for the pledge of
09:04:35 allegiance.
09:04:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Good morning and council and
09:04:44 everyone on this Juneteenth day.
09:04:47 Let us pray.
09:04:48 Father, what a joy it is to praise you and be here once
09:04:51 again to give the thanks for your grace and mercy.
09:04:55 Thank you, father, for how you have blessed us.
09:04:57 You have been so good to us, and we are truly thankful.
09:05:03 Thank you for the opportunity to be here at this moment in
09:05:05 time.
09:05:06 Bless our council, our mayor, our administration, our
09:05:11 employees, and our citizens.
09:05:17 Continue to be keep us all in your care.
09:05:20 Bless those this morning being recognized for their
09:05:22 commendation.
09:05:25 For their service and caring.
09:05:29 Keep them in your loving care.
09:05:30 Today we ask you to bless this workshop session as council
09:05:34 takes care of city matters.
09:05:36 Continue to guide our council so that they will continue to
09:05:41 do what is best for all of our citizens.
09:05:44 Continue to make them instruments of your will.
09:05:47 Lead them as they make decisions that affect all of our
09:05:50 lives.
09:05:52 Father, help us to remember to be kind to one another and to
09:05:56 always give you all the praises and thanks.
09:05:59 In your most holy name we pray.
09:06:02 Let us all say amen.
09:06:04 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:06:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:06:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:06:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:06:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:06:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:06:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:43 Item number 1.
09:06:44 Presentation, commendation to police Officer of the Month.
09:06:48 Mr. Frank Reddick will do that along with our Chief Castor
09:06:51 who made the news the other day.
09:07:01 >> And you know they showed it over and over.
09:07:04 >> You get a little bit of what we get around here.
09:07:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: It's my pleasure again to introduce our
09:07:16 officer for the month of June 2014, and I will turn it over
09:07:26 to the chief.
09:07:26 >> Chief Castor: Always my pleasure to bring Tampa's best
09:07:31 before you.
09:07:31 Today we have Marcus Elam, one of our school resource
09:07:36 officers.
09:07:37 As now we have an officer in every middle and high school.
09:07:40 He has one of the quieter middle schools in Van Buren junior
09:07:44 high but does an outstanding job as do all of our school
09:07:47 resource officers.
09:07:49 They have monthly meetings that I try to make on a regular
09:07:52 basis, and one of the things that I always remind the school
09:07:56 resource office of is that their duty is not only to keep
09:08:01 the school environment safe, make it a safe learning
09:08:06 environment for the children but also to be that positive
09:08:08 influence in the kids' lives.
09:08:09 And unfortunately they are the only positive influence.
09:08:12 And Marcus Elam couldn't be a better example of that dual
09:08:17 role of the peacekeeper and the positive example to the kids
09:08:21 in our school system.
09:08:22 So I'm very, very proud of him.
09:08:24 He's been assigned as a school resource officer at Van Buren
09:08:29 during the last school year.
09:08:30 He's established an outstanding rapport with the faculty and
09:08:35 the students.
09:08:35 He conducted an extensive bicycle registration program.
09:08:38 And I know bicycle theft doesn't sound like a big item or a
09:08:43 serious crime, but it's very serious to the young kids that
09:08:46 that may be their only mode of transportation, and for some
09:08:49 adults, and to be a degree, it drives our larceny numbers
09:08:53 here in the city, so we take it very, very seriously.
09:08:58 They also make sure that everyone on the campus is safe.
09:09:01 And that is his utmost priority.
09:09:03 He works diligently to educate and enlists the help by
09:09:10 conducting school safety presentation entitled "see
09:09:13 something say something."
09:09:15 Officer Elam recognized there were numerous individuals
09:09:19 hanging around Van Buren during the time that the school was
09:09:23 letting out in the afternoon, and the problem that that
09:09:27 causes, we had to call all of our evening shift officers off
09:09:30 of their normal duties to try to help us get all of the
09:09:35 students safely out of the school and have these other kids
09:09:38 that were hanging out to start fights, to stop doing that.
09:09:43 So not only did he address the problem, he solved it so that
09:09:48 we didn't have to bring officers off of the street to handle
09:09:53 this issue.
09:09:53 And I think you are all aware we had these types of issues
09:09:56 in the past.
09:09:59 They went over to the Van Buren junior high school and
09:10:03 officer Elam handled.
09:10:05 That he educated all the patrol units about the trespass on
09:10:08 school safety zone, and says a person can be trespassed
09:10:13 within 500 feet of a school.
09:10:15 After several warnings were given and a few arrests were
09:10:18 made, everybody got the word and they stopped coming to Van
09:10:22 Buren at the time that school is letting out.
09:10:24 Problem solved.
09:10:26 And the evening shift units could go on doing what they do
09:10:29 on a regular routine.
09:10:32 Officer Elam cares about the welfare of his students.
09:10:35 Just one example of his involvement with the student was one
09:10:38 that an individual that had mental health issues that were
09:10:41 going unmedicated due to the parents' inaction.
09:10:44 The student performed very well academically and
09:10:47 behaviorally when on medication but lacks focus and
09:10:50 threatened other students with physical force when he was
09:10:54 off medication.
09:10:56 Officer Elam performed his duties in dealing with the actual
09:10:59 threats to others on campus but also informed the school
09:11:02 psychologist.
09:11:03 He was involved in a meeting with the parents, school
09:11:05 administration and the school psychologist to improve the
09:11:08 situation, and he conducted two home visits on his own time
09:11:14 and has had ongoing contact with the students to build his
09:11:19 rapport and trust and to ensure that the family is providing
09:11:22 the needed medication to this young man.
09:11:25 He also has been a mentor to several students by providing
09:11:28 them with appropriate direction when facing challenges of
09:11:31 being in middle school.
09:11:33 And although we have forgotten those challenges, my kids
09:11:39 just went through it and it is a difficult time.
09:11:41 Officer Elam demonstrated an ability to reduce crime and
09:11:46 assist his students.
09:11:48 He's made a number of arrests at Van Buren.
09:11:51 He did over 300 field checks of suspicious individuals
09:11:56 around that school, and he has also decreased just in the
09:12:00 one year he's been there, decreased the calls for services
09:12:03 at Van Buren by 45%.
09:12:05 So he's a one-man crime fighting machine.
09:12:10 During a two-day period in March of 2014 he investigated
09:12:14 himself two bike thefts. In both case it is bikes had been
09:12:18 registered bikes and were recovered and returned tots owners
09:12:21 of the juvenile defendants were identified and arrested.
09:12:25 The arrest sent a strong message to students on campus.
09:12:27 If you commit a crime, you will be held responsible.
09:12:30 So he has certainly been a game changer.
09:12:34 I have received a number of accolades for officer Elam not
09:12:38 only the fact at Van Buren but also from the parents and
09:12:42 students.
09:12:42 So he is an outstanding example of what the school resource
09:12:45 officers do and what makes the Tampa Police Department
09:12:48 great.
09:12:49 So it is my honor to name him as Officer of the Month for
09:12:52 June 20714.
09:12:53 Congratulations.
09:12:54 [ Applause ]
09:13:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: On behalf Tampa City Council we would like
09:13:22 to present you with a commendation showing our appreciation
09:13:24 to you for being selected Officer of the Month June 2014.
09:13:27 Congratulations.
09:13:34 And we treat you with some goodies as well.
09:13:39 >> President of Tampa PBA.
09:13:50 Joining me is police officer Dave COMACK, vice-president of
09:13:57 the PBA.
09:13:58 I'm very proud to announce that vice-president Elam is a
09:14:02 member of the almost 1,000 Tampa police officers that belong
09:14:07 to the Tampa PBA.
09:14:09 Chief, I want to thank you for recognizing one of our
09:14:12 members.
09:14:12 I have actually had the -- I have actually worked with
09:14:18 Marcus in the past, and he is absolutely an excellent
09:14:21 resource officer.
09:14:26 Marcus, we want to present you with this as a gift for doing
09:14:29 such a fine job and recognizing Tampa PBA.
09:14:34 [ Applause ]
09:14:49 >> I'm Joel Honeywell on behalf vanguard.
09:15:00 We appreciate everything you have done,.
09:15:06 >> Mike on behalf of the Gonzmart family a $100 gift card.
09:15:25 Thank you for what you do.
09:15:27 We appreciate it.
09:15:27 >> We thank you for everything you do.
09:15:41 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:15:44 On behalf of Jim, Judy and Todd step, we do have a small
09:15:48 token of appreciation for you.
09:15:55 If you don't mind I will bring it by later on today.
09:15:58 But I do have a gift card from Lee Roy Selmon's.
09:16:06 >> Good morning.
09:16:08 Frank DeSoto with Bill Currie Ford.
09:16:11 On behalf of the Currie family, and all the employees at
09:16:15 Bill Currie Ford we would like to congratulate you on a job
09:16:21 well done and present with you this watch.
09:16:23 and we hope that you will continue to be an asset to the
09:16:26 City of Tampa.
09:16:27 Thanks for what you do.
09:16:31 [ Applause ]
09:16:34 >> On behalf of Tampa Bay theater I would like to present
09:16:39 you with a dual membership for you and whoever you choose to
09:16:46 come and see a movie.
09:16:47 >> It's a pleasure.
09:16:54 I'm humbled.
09:16:55 This is greatly appreciated by the department.
09:17:00 I worked with some of these guys before in the past.
09:17:05 A lot of trial and tribulations, a year and a half ago, came
09:17:10 to my side, and they took care of me, and the schedule,
09:17:16 worked with me, things I had to go through with treatment.
09:17:19 Glad to say that now I'm all better and 100%.
09:17:22 And I'm just happy to be here.
09:17:26 [ Applause ]
09:17:28 >> Chief Castor: And all the school officers when they are
09:17:37 out of school on summer they are not on vacation.
09:17:39 They are all out in the police athletic league and
09:17:43 throughout our parks in the City of Tampa making sure that
09:17:46 they are all safe so the kids have constructive activities
09:17:49 during the summer.
09:17:50 And Marcus is a great part of that as well.
09:17:52 Thank you, council.
09:17:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, chief.
09:17:55 Thank you, officer Elam.
09:18:01 [ Applause ]
09:18:02 Item number 2.
09:18:15 I have been informed that will be continued to a later date
09:18:19 when Betty Castor could be here for the presentation.
09:18:23 So I need a motion to hold to a future date.
09:18:25 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:18:28 All in favor of the motion?
09:18:30 Opposed?
09:18:30 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:18:32 We go to item number 3.
09:18:33 Presentation of commendation by Mr. Bus rider.
09:18:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair, your kind words to both
09:18:49 the chief of police and to me are always greatly
09:18:52 appreciated.
09:18:55 Council, it's my pleasure to present a commendation and
09:18:58 proclamation from the mayor for the ninth annual national
09:19:02 dump the pump day.
09:19:03 As the chair was just alluding, to bussed in to work,
09:19:10 sometimes it isn't an easy experience when it's 90 degrees
09:19:16 out and 100% humidity.
09:19:18 Sometimes it can be difficult especially in a suit.
09:19:20 But I found it to be a very quick and easy way to get
09:19:23 around.
09:19:24 We are appreciative of the people who provide that service,
09:19:27 and that's Hart.
09:19:28 As now the people who work in the city are very hard
09:19:30 working.
09:19:31 Some of the people at Hart provide a transit system
09:19:33 throughout this county.
09:19:34 It's my pleasure to have the CEO of Hart, Kathryn, and Jeff
09:19:42 Stewart, and Mr. Michael Stevens who does everything else
09:19:45 that they don't do.
09:19:46 So Michael is really a terrific HR director and a lawyer to
09:19:50 boot.
09:19:51 So that makes it even better.
09:19:52 You have got a lot more hats to wear to get into everything
09:19:56 that you do.
09:19:56 So without further ado, I would like to read our
09:20:01 commendation.
09:20:03 Tampa City Council understands that by using public
09:20:05 transportation, people save money, help the environment,
09:20:08 reduce dependence on foreign oil and improve America's
09:20:11 quality of life.
09:20:12 While transportation is an important part of our nation's
09:20:15 transportation system, and provides citizens with travel
09:20:17 options other than driving a car, and it is something that
09:20:20 all cities must recognize and invest in.
09:20:23 Since every dollar invested public transportation generates
09:20:26 approximately $4 in economic return which powers or
09:20:31 community growth and revitalization.
09:20:33 Locally, Hillsborough area regional transit or Hart buses
09:20:37 make over 545,000 trips per year and keep about 45,000 cars
09:20:42 per day off the road.
09:20:44 It's with our support and our encouragement that transit
09:20:47 ridership is increasing, and we appreciate Hart's commitment
09:20:51 to promoting the annual national dump the pump day on this
09:20:54 day, June 19, 2014.
09:20:57 Congratulations.
09:20:58 [ Applause ]
09:20:59 And before I introduce Kathryn again, let me just read our
09:21:08 proclamation from our mayor.
09:21:11 You know, there's a lot of whereases in the proclamation.
09:21:15 I wasn't looking at you, Charlie. Anyway, I will read a
09:21:18 little bit about what it is.
09:21:19 Most of what we are already talked about, but it's
09:21:23 encouraging that the mayor recognizes that Hart is an
09:21:25 important asset of our city and important aspect of our
09:21:30 county.
09:21:31 Without Hart many people can't get to work on a day-to-day
09:21:33 basis.
09:21:34 Many people can't get to school and to other places to visit
09:21:38 their friends throughout the rest of the county.
09:21:40 For $2 you can get to almost anywhere in the county.
09:21:43 Sometimes it isn't easy because we need a more expanded
09:21:47 transit system.
09:21:47 I think we all know.
09:21:49 That but Hart is doing a great job considering the amounts
09:21:51 of money that we are able to get from the public trust, and
09:21:54 we hope that we will be able to expand in the future.
09:21:57 Kathryn, if you could, please, come up here and tell us a
09:22:00 little about Hart.
09:22:01 >> Thank you members of the council, so much for your
09:22:04 recognition today.
09:22:04 We appreciate your support every day.
09:22:07 The Councilman noted we are averaging a lot of days over
09:22:10 50,000 folks.
09:22:12 That's a lot of folks.
09:22:13 A lot of them here in Tampa.
09:22:14 60% of our ridership is on the Tampa centered route.
09:22:19 A lot pulling out after midnight on weekdays.
09:22:23 But if you are at the emergency room at night, it's likely
09:22:27 they will get there at Hart.
09:22:29 We support the jobs, the background of the community.
09:22:33 The fantastic work of our operators out at 3 in the morning
09:22:36 and going home at 3 in the morning and mechanics keeping
09:22:39 buses on the road.
09:22:40 So we greatly appreciate your support today.
09:22:42 We invite everyone to come join us, get you all over town,
09:22:48 all over the county if you want.
09:22:50 And if you want to know where that bus is please get our
09:22:52 free AP, one bus away.
09:22:54 Our friends at USF, no exactly when that bus will be close
09:23:00 to you.
09:23:01 We are proud of our partnership with Cutter and greatly
09:23:06 support the support of the City of Tampa.
09:23:09 Thank you very much.
09:23:18 [ Applause ]
09:23:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:23:33 We appreciate you being here, all of you.
09:23:36 Thank you.
09:23:37 We go to public comment.
09:23:38 Anyone in the audience to speak on items 1, 2, 3?
09:23:43 Items 1 through 3.
09:23:44 Anyone want to speak on those items?
09:23:46 And then I am going to have, because it says items 1 through
09:23:49 4, but 4 hasn't been heard yet.
09:23:51 I am going to go 1, through 3, then 4.
09:23:55 Items 1 through 3.
09:23:56 Anyone that wants to speak on the police Officer of the
09:23:58 Month, the one that was canceled, and Hartline?
09:24:07 It's very simple.
09:24:08 Item 1, item 2, and item 3.
09:24:12 I see no one.
09:24:13 We go to item 4.
09:24:14 Then I am going to go back to public hearings -- I mean
09:24:17 public comments on 4.
09:24:24 Items 1, 2 and 3.
09:24:25 Only on items 1, 2 and 3.
09:24:27 >> Ed Tillou: Okay W.respect to the Hart award.
09:24:39 I was a little --
09:24:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need your name for the record.
09:24:44 >> -- because I thought it was about Hart.
09:24:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need your name on the record, sir.
09:24:48 >> Okay.
09:24:49 Wait a second.
09:24:50 I'm ed, Ed Tillou of Sulphur Springs.
09:24:53 I thought that was for Hart in general.
09:24:55 But actually it was for a very specific thing, which is a
09:24:58 very good thing to stump the pump.
09:25:00 It's finally getting publicity after a long time of not.
09:25:03 And the thing that goes with it, why I say that is because
09:25:09 they did that ten times a week, a person sees things on Hart
09:25:15 that are really wretched.
09:25:16 They really foul people up.
09:25:18 And what happens is you say to yourself, ten times a week,
09:25:24 if the people who run Hart use Hart, then things like this
09:25:27 wouldn't exist.
09:25:29 And you say that ten times a week.
09:25:32 And a lot of times, yes, frustrations and aggravations are
09:25:37 the things that cause people to throw up their hands and
09:25:39 say, well, I am just going to get a car.
09:25:42 So, anyway, with respect to item 2, which I think seemed to
09:25:49 go from one point to the other, and sometimes the person,
09:25:55 like was supposed to be a public hearing on something with
09:26:00 Channelside, the work they do with the docks and things.
09:26:04 I wanted to say something about that at the public hearing
09:26:07 and just skipped right over.
09:26:08 So sometimes it's very hard to keep a handle on a lot of
09:26:12 these things.
09:26:13 But be that as it may, with respect to item 2, which it
09:26:22 seemed to be skipped over but I'll speak about that.
09:26:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wasn't seeing it was skipped over.
09:26:28 >> That's what I mean.
09:26:31 Was it withdrawn?
09:26:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was continued to a future date when
09:26:34 Ms. Castor could be here.
09:26:35 >> Okay.
09:26:37 Well, should I speak about it now?
09:26:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I said 1, 2 and 3.
09:26:40 1, 2 and 3.
09:26:41 >> Okay.
09:26:43 With respect to that, there's a real need to vet these
09:26:45 commendations more.
09:26:46 And I'm not saying you guys come up with child molesting or
09:26:50 something like that but there's a very serious problem out
09:26:52 here, the technology corridor, and more people would be here
09:26:57 during it if stem was in order.
09:27:02 Now it's like a broken clock is right twice a day.
09:27:06 Now, I was in a teaching certification program for stem to
09:27:10 get the credentials, and that was phased out.
09:27:14 And that could have been something done on a level within
09:27:18 the department.
09:27:18 But the implication was that came from high up when Mrs.
09:27:23 Castor was over at USF.
09:27:25 I lost my home as a result of that because that was about
09:27:29 retraining.
09:27:31 I would have been a male teacher out in the school system
09:27:36 teaching stem.
09:27:37 Now they have to offer people $10,000 to do the same thing.
09:27:42 So anyway --
09:27:45 (Bell sounds).
09:27:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:47 >> I have my usual handouts.
09:27:49 >> Teresa Miller.
09:28:02 My sons went to Middleton high school and they were there
09:28:05 when it first started and we had helicopters going over, and
09:28:08 then the police came in and really helped us keep it safe
09:28:11 and clean.
09:28:12 And I got teary eyed hearing how much that officer did for
09:28:16 his school.
09:28:17 And I was sitting and thinking, I wish more people were here
09:28:20 to see how the police really reach out and help communities
09:28:23 and figure out the problem and solve it.
09:28:27 So just to be here to see that.
09:28:32 And thank you for your support for our police force.
09:28:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you so much.
09:28:36 Okay.
09:28:37 Anyone else?
09:28:39 1, 2, 3.
09:28:41 Item number 4.
09:28:42 >> Good morning, chairman, council members.
09:28:47 Sonya Little, revenue and finance.
09:28:49 Thank you for the opportunity to come before you to present
09:28:53 the city's fiscal year 2013 comprehensive financial annual
09:28:57 report, also known as the CAFR.
09:29:06 You will recognize we are delayed this year.
09:29:10 Typically we have the financial process deliver the CAFR.
09:29:15 I believe by March 31st of every year for the prior
09:29:18 fiscal year.
09:29:19 This time we were about 60 days delayed because of our ERP
09:29:23 implementation.
09:29:24 Really what that did is it gave us a really fine opportunity
09:29:27 to address some of the major concerns or implement some of
09:29:31 the major initiatives that we had mapped out as a result of
09:29:36 prior audits.
09:29:37 And before you is a copy of the final 2013 CAFR.
09:29:43 If you will recall, we are required pursuant toe Florida
09:29:46 statutes to issue a CAFR annual -- and it's basically
09:29:55 management of the city's finance.
09:29:58 Basically, we are, as you hear, every time I come up, even
09:30:02 though we face some challenges and very sound financial
09:30:05 conditions, meaning that we can pay our bills, and keep the
09:30:09 services that we provide, this CAFR is a snapshot of our
09:30:15 September 30, 2013, of our financial position.
09:30:19 This CAFR goes in partnership with the budget so that you
09:30:22 will see that our vision and our strategic plan is actually
09:30:28 captured and reported in the CAFR so that we can provide you
09:30:32 with our budget versus the actual performance of the city
09:30:37 from a financial perspective.
09:30:40 The
09:30:42 Overall, and this is found in the management discussion of
09:30:45 the CAFR that begins on page 23, but just to summarize this
09:30:50 real briefly, overall the city's governmental ride total
09:30:55 assets are 2.9 billion dollars with total liabilities of 998
09:31:00 million.
09:31:01 That leaves us with a net position of 1.991 billion dollars.
09:31:06 From a revenue and expenditure perspective, government wide
09:31:09 or city-wide, in fiscal year 2013 we had revenues coming in,
09:31:16 new revenues coming in to the city of $7.1 million.
09:31:21 If you were to compare '13 to '12 revenues, you will see
09:31:25 that there is about a 13% decrease in '13, and that's
09:31:30 primarily because we received the grant funding for the RNC,
09:31:36 so don't be alarmed if you see a huge disparity there.
09:31:43 Leaving us with a net increase of 2.1 million.
09:31:45 All of this is included in the management discussion and
09:31:48 analysis.
09:31:49 It's pretty much a summary of the city's overall financial
09:31:54 performance for '13.
09:31:56 Also important to you is as it relates to the audit process,
09:32:01 which we again used for the third consecutive year, the
09:32:06 independent audit firm to perform this year's audit.
09:32:11 We go through a process which includes Councilman Cohen as
09:32:16 finance chair, for the revenue and fine department, as part
09:32:20 of the process when we have several meetings, and map out a
09:32:23 plan, a timetable and a list of items, and the auditors
09:32:28 provide us with the great detail related to the actual audit
09:32:32 process.
09:32:34 As a result of this year's audit, when compared to '12 which
09:32:39 you may remember also, the city had several findings as far
09:32:44 back as 2009.
09:32:47 Recommendations that have been provided to our external
09:32:51 audit year after year after year, made a very conscious
09:32:55 effort to address those, fiscal year '13 and you will find
09:33:00 response from our external auditor that nine findings that
09:33:06 occurred in 2012 were 100% eliminated and addressed and we
09:33:11 are very pleased, our team in our revenue and finance
09:33:16 accounting department along with other partners throughout
09:33:18 the city worked very, very hard, and I really want to point
09:33:21 this out because it's important that we are able to
09:33:24 demonstrate that we are addressing and being very mindful of
09:33:28 the need to have internal controls to protect the city's
09:33:31 resources.
09:33:35 So want to command the staff for making the commitment and
09:33:38 really focusing on addressing those issues.
09:33:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
09:33:43 >>HARRY COHEN: You mentioned this earlier but it shouldn't
09:33:45 go without being noted that all of this was accomplished
09:33:49 simultaneously with the implementation of the ERP system.
09:33:53 So not just one thing is going on, but two things are going
09:33:57 on that require a lot of extra time and effort.
09:34:02 And it makes the accomplishment that much more significant.
09:34:06 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:34:11 I appreciate you pointing that out.
09:34:12 Because we have a great team, very committed because it was
09:34:14 a huge challenge trying to get the financial modules
09:34:17 implemented and then going through an audit process where we
09:34:20 were being audited under both the old system and the new
09:34:24 system simultaneously.
09:34:25 So that being said, the only finding that we received for
09:34:30 fiscal year 2013 was related to our delay in record filing
09:34:37 cash because we were going between two systems, the old
09:34:39 system and the new system.
09:34:41 There were no roars or problems once the reconciliation
09:34:45 process was complete, but it was -- it took longer than it
09:34:50 should take under ordinary circumstances.
09:34:53 So in this case, the auditors have indicated that we have a
09:34:59 clean opinion, and what is now an unmodified opinion which
09:35:04 we used to say unqualified every year they change what they
09:35:08 call it but the bottom line is we have a clean opinion from
09:35:14 our external auditors which really means that they believe
09:35:18 that our financial statements are presented clearly, and
09:35:21 that they conform with generally accepted accounting
09:35:25 principles, so with that I would be willing to entertain any
09:35:31 questions.
09:35:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any comments or questions from Mrs.
09:35:36 Little at this time?
09:35:36 I see none.
09:35:37 >>SONYA LITTLE: Mr. Chairman, we just ask that it be
09:35:44 received and filed.
09:35:45 It's a process that we have to go through.
09:35:48 I don't know if there is an adoption required, but --
09:35:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to receive and file.
09:35:54 >> Second.
09:35:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen to receive
09:35:56 and file the documents.
09:35:57 Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
09:35:59 Further discussion by council members?
09:36:00 All in favor?
09:36:01 Opposed?
09:36:02 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:36:03 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:36:05 May I make one request, please?
09:36:07 Because the team worked so very hard.
09:36:09 We have a whole team of accountants, analysts, and staff
09:36:15 back in the office that are behind the scenes that work
09:36:19 tirelessly to deliver this type of product on behalf of the
09:36:23 city which consistently receive awards for products that we
09:36:26 deliver.
09:36:27 And I would like to recognize, if I may have them just
09:36:30 stand, just real quickly, sir.
09:36:33 The team, I call them the front line team because they are
09:36:37 the ones I really go to during this whole process, and then
09:36:41 they go out and carry forth with the rest of the staff.
09:36:44 We have Mr. Lee Huffstetler, the chief accountant.
09:36:51 We have our accounting operations manager.
09:36:54 Miss Lee who is one of our accountants, as well as miss
09:37:02 Pamela McCarter.
09:37:04 Can't forget Pamela.
09:37:07 This team, you will find them at all ours of the evening
09:37:11 working hard to get it done along with our other staff.
09:37:14 But thank you for the opportunity.
09:37:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And remember, Mrs. Little, a good leader
09:37:18 is one who takes her good people out to lunch.
09:37:21 [ Laughter ]
09:37:24 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:37:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So you know what is expected.
09:37:31 [ Laughter ]
09:37:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again we are going to go to three minutes
09:37:34 on this subject matter.
09:37:38 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this matter come
09:37:40 forward.
09:37:40 Item number 4.
09:37:41 >> Kimberly Overman, actually here for a variety of
09:37:54 different reasons today, but on item 4, I just wanted to
09:37:58 commend the budget and finance office.
09:38:00 They are doing an excellent job of keeping track of all of
09:38:04 our money.
09:38:05 And with limited resources, and as you mentioned earlier,
09:38:10 the ERP program went through two gender changes and
09:38:15 coordinating not only with our government system, but with
09:38:18 the county system, who is also added to that.
09:38:21 They have done a marvelous job of auditing not only 2013 but
09:38:25 are also providing the budget and finance advisory committee
09:38:28 that advises you on ideas and concepts and reasons to pay
09:38:34 attention to the budget.
09:38:38 The office has done a fine job of getting us good
09:38:41 information.
09:38:41 We do have a workshop scheduled next week, if I am not
09:38:44 mistaken.
09:38:45 And our team is looking to try to gather enough information
09:38:48 to come back to you to present some ideas as a result of the
09:38:52 advisory council's research into work we have done with the
09:38:56 department.
09:38:57 I don't know that we are going to be prepared for next
09:39:00 week's workshop, and looking at the calendar and given the
09:39:03 target of the mayor's presentation of the budget on the
09:39:06 24th, you need to possibly request that we have some
09:39:10 time on the 17th of July which is when the council
09:39:13 returns to do a presentation if that is the council's
09:39:17 pleasure.
09:39:22 Not right this minute.
09:39:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to be here the 17th.
09:39:26 That doesn't mean it won't happen on the 17th.
09:39:29 But I want to thank you and all those that are serving on
09:39:32 your committee that is spearheading and you have done an
09:39:37 excellent job.
09:39:38 You have worked along with the budget department, with Mrs.
09:39:43 Little, and we appreciate the time, at no charge to the city
09:39:47 that all of you are giving.
09:39:48 >> And this is very important.
09:39:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I always say free time is the most
09:39:53 expensive time when you are giving it.
09:39:55 And we appreciate it very much.
09:39:57 Mr. Cohen.
09:39:57 >>HARRY COHEN: In terms of setting the date for your
09:40:00 presentation, I think the best thing would be, we are going
09:40:07 to have a very full agenda that day, and it's the first day
09:40:10 back, and I know some council members will not be here.
09:40:13 We have not actually coordinated yet the exact date and time
09:40:17 for the mayor's presentation.
09:40:19 Is it necessary that your presentation be before or after?
09:40:25 Can it be just around the same time?
09:40:28 >> Around the same time.
09:40:29 >>HARRY COHEN: So we'll figure it out and make sure we get
09:40:32 that date set before we adjourn for the summer recess.
09:40:35 >> And thank you for the commendation for the members.
09:40:40 We are one member short, but we are also two members that
09:40:43 are literally trying to consume a lot of information in a
09:40:49 short period of time, so it is a mammoth undertaking and
09:40:52 they are working very hard.
09:40:53 Thank you.
09:40:53 I will pass the word along.
09:40:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:40:57 We go to item number 5.
09:41:07 And I believe Mrs. Capin brought it up and it's a good plan.
09:41:10 If we could address item B first, which is the one that
09:41:13 comes up with some statistics and then go into the crux.
09:41:23 >> Oh, we don't have a microphone.
09:41:27 I'm sorry.
09:41:27 Where did it go?
09:41:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am.
09:41:30 We scare people by not having a mike.
09:41:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
09:41:34 Good morning.
09:41:37 These specifics, they were from the last time we actually
09:41:40 did this and it was carried over.
09:41:46 As of that date there were 1353 permit within the city and
09:41:55 so 1353 active permits in the city to. Break it down by
09:42:00 area there, were 112 active ones, and from the business
09:42:05 Channel District area, 40 along South Howard, 141 Ybor City,
09:42:10 again as of April 16th.
09:42:11 So there were 293 total on those three particular areas.
09:42:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, what?
09:42:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 293 just within those concentrated areas.
09:42:21 But 1353 active --
09:42:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Can you give us those numbers again?
09:42:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 1353 throughout the city.
09:42:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can we have a copy of that?
09:42:35 I know you have given it to us before.
09:42:37 But if we just make a copy of that.
09:42:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These are my handwritten notes.
09:42:41 I'm sorry.
09:42:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If we can get somebody from the back.
09:42:44 Your handwriting is much better than mine and we appreciate
09:42:47 it very much.
09:42:47 >> Which is surprising because I can actually read my own
09:42:51 writing.
09:42:58 Because you asked for like a two-year time frame in the last
09:43:01 one, I took that two year time frame and one from April of
09:43:06 2011, almost two years actually.
09:43:09 And the second part of those notes that broke down annual
09:43:13 reporting, noncompliance letters, how many of those
09:43:16 locations have been cited for violations.
09:43:18 And then many different types of violations that they can be
09:43:23 cited for.
09:43:24 The annual reports come up obviously every year and I broke
09:43:26 it down by year, how many received letter of noncompliance,
09:43:29 how many received a second.
09:43:31 The second one is the one that's sent to council, because
09:43:34 they haven't either paid or filed, or filed properly.
09:43:38 The correct percentages.
09:43:39 We did go through a series on those annual reports.
09:43:46 After the first 31 days because everyone has to report by
09:43:48 January 31st.
09:43:50 There's a list of people, there are locations that didn't
09:43:54 file, or filed incorrectly.
09:43:55 That list, we want to flush out who is actually closed for
09:44:02 business, and we wind up them being posted.
09:44:05 They go a different enforcement route.
09:44:08 What I didn't give you were the numbers based on how many
09:44:10 are posted every year.
09:44:13 There are dozens and dozens every year.
09:44:17 Worry just starting that tracking in the database.
09:44:20 So I have to go back and look through basically every letter
09:44:22 we send to the state, but there are many every single year
09:44:29 that actually get notice of posting for the 60 days before
09:44:33 they go dry.
09:44:36 Within the last two years, there's also another set of
09:44:39 enforcement locations.
09:44:40 Those are locations that have permits.
09:44:43 They are not required to file annual reports or anything.
09:44:46 But there are locations that we investigate with TPD or fire
09:44:49 marshal.
09:44:51 Over the last two years, there's been ten locations
09:44:54 specifically that we have taken a really close look at and
09:44:58 had investigations made.
09:45:00 There are three of those that received direct letters from
09:45:03 me saying that we believe there's a violation.
09:45:07 One of them actually did wind up in front of council and
09:45:11 that was suspended, and there's another one pending.
09:45:15 For suspension.
09:45:16 There's another one currently.
09:45:17 I can't tell you where the locations are but there's another
09:45:20 one currently under a dual investigation with the state,
09:45:23 because there's potentially a license problem and permit
09:45:26 problem.
09:45:27 We have a coordinate effort with ABC, fire marshal, code
09:45:30 enforcement, TPD, and through that process, we have
09:45:36 undercover surveillance and photos, and we go out and
09:45:39 measure the site to make sure they haven't expanded the
09:45:41 areas of alcohol haven't expanded.
09:45:44 There is one that was investigated just yesterday also that
09:45:48 we would go after that is not permitted, but is selling
09:45:51 alcohol.
09:45:52 So those fall into the AB enforcement world as well.
09:45:55 It just can't be calculated with the personals of people
09:45:58 that have permits, because it's just -- we have those
09:46:03 locations that we investigate every year as well.
09:46:06 There's not as many.
09:46:07 It's random.
09:46:09 But just really quickly, to go back, as of April 16th,
09:46:13 there was 1353.
09:46:18 That's permits.
09:46:20 Just to give you this for the audience as well.
09:46:30 Actively selling within the city or have the ability to
09:46:33 actively sell.
09:46:34 Those can include the ones that were licensed prior to 1945
09:46:38 that are still open and operating.
09:46:40 Those don't have a true permit, but they do have an approval
09:46:43 from the city to keep operating.
09:46:46 So those 1353.
09:46:49 And then these are the restaurants reporting numbers.
09:46:55 So in 2011, there were 91 noncompliance letters sent after
09:47:00 January 31st.
09:47:01 Three for noncompliance.
09:47:04 Ultimately, everyone came into compliance but three.
09:47:09 In 2012, there were 97 that were sent that letter, and they
09:47:13 are sent certified mail, more expensive registered mail they
09:47:18 have to sign for.
09:47:19 None were suspended because everyone came into compliance.
09:47:22 In 2013, 92 letters were signed.
09:47:25 And there are 20 pending transmittal fee right now.
09:47:30 So we get down to a lower number. It's just part of the
09:47:33 process.
09:47:34 Once you send them to the clerk, and the clerk actually
09:47:36 sends out that additional letter, even though they have
09:47:38 gotten a couple of letters from us, being set for hearing on
09:47:42 X date, they tend to all come in with the exception of a
09:47:47 couple.
09:47:47 And those are the ones that wind up in front of you either
09:47:50 for suspension or whatever else happens.
09:47:53 But very few wind up in the suspension world because they
09:47:56 wind up complying.
09:48:00 That's pretty much it as far as numbers.
09:48:02 I didn't calculate the actual percentages because these
09:48:05 numbers are very fluid day to day.
09:48:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:48:08 Any comments by council?
09:48:13 Okay.
09:48:14 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item, B part of
09:48:24 5?
09:48:30 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 South Sherill.
09:48:34 My comments, evidently, it saves the city quite a bit of
09:48:39 time to track all of.
09:48:40 This but those who don't do it signed or anything in any way
09:48:47 to that said to do it.
09:48:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll let Mrs. Coyle answer that.
09:48:56 >>MARGARET VIZZI: Well, follow up, make sure they do what
09:48:58 they are supposed to.
09:48:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are they fined?
09:49:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Oh, no, it's not like the process where
09:49:05 you wind up in front of the magistrate.
09:49:07 It's something -- if any one of these if a true violation or
09:49:13 conviction is found or if we can build a good case we bring
09:49:16 to the you for suspension.
09:49:17 So their fine is not paying for us, it's essentially
09:49:20 shutting down which effects them in a different way.
09:49:26 But there is a fine for not filing your annual reports.
09:49:30 If you are a business location, and it's your first late
09:49:33 notice, your first having complied at that business at that
09:49:37 location it's a hundred dollars.
09:49:38 Every time after it is 500.
09:49:42 >>MARGARET VIZZI: I guess maybe I would suggest that council
09:49:44 consider doing something like that, because it is taking
09:49:47 staff time to do these things, that they could be doing
09:49:51 something else.
09:49:54 That's just my comment.
09:49:55 >>MARY MULHERN: My question was of Ms. Coyle when she was
09:50:01 up there.
09:50:01 I'm sorry I didn't think of this.
09:50:06 Between the time that they receive their noncompliance
09:50:11 letter and when you reinspect, how much time do they have to
09:50:14 come into compliance?
09:50:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The first window they have is from
09:50:18 January 1st to January 31st.
09:50:21 And if they file correctly and on time within that period,
09:50:25 then you are good to go.
09:50:27 There's no fine or anything.
09:50:30 In the mandates we have another 30 days beyond.
09:50:33 That so it just depends on leap year whether it's March
09:50:38 2nd or 3rd but they have another window of time, 30
09:50:41 days to file.
09:50:42 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is just for them to file the
09:50:44 paperwork?
09:50:45 >> Correctly.
09:50:47 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is just for the restaurants?
09:50:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 400 right now.
09:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: So this doesn't have anything to do with
09:51:00 other citations for noncompliance based on the site plans,
09:51:09 you know.
09:51:12 >>CATHY COYLE: That's correct.
09:51:13 And we do track those.
09:51:14 And as I mentioned we have about ten locations over the last
09:51:18 two specific years that we have had investigations with TPD
09:51:22 or the fire marshal where we have actually, you know,
09:51:25 generated pictures or video, and we have actually gone out
09:51:28 and measured things, and documented things.
09:51:32 Several of those cases, there are two pending right now with
09:51:37 the state as well because we are trying to do enforcement
09:51:40 because there's a lighting problem and a permit problem.
09:51:43 Those are the things, I can't tell you the locations because
09:51:46 what happens with these cases, they don't go to code
09:51:49 enforcement.
09:51:50 They end up in front of you, to decide whether or not to
09:51:54 take it away.
09:51:54 Within the last two years, came before you, if you recall,
09:51:58 it was on Howard.
09:51:59 It was a nightclub.
09:52:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:52:02 So --
09:52:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There are ongoing investigations behind
09:52:08 the scenes.
09:52:09 Most of that information is held pretty tightly because we
09:52:11 are either waiting for something to come out, a judge's
09:52:14 decision on a conviction for certain things, or proving the
09:52:17 evidence either with the state or TPD.
09:52:19 So ultimately have a case to bring before you.
09:52:22 A lot of the time, over five or six years, in our group,
09:52:28 work group, there have been several places that we have
09:52:31 actually issued citations to, a write-out letter actually is
09:52:36 a citation, and we tell them we have evidence, I give them
09:52:40 sections of the code, I reference what it is that's been
09:52:42 done, either an arrest or something else that happened on
09:52:44 the property that is related to the criteria for revoking,
09:52:49 and usually what happens automatically is we are contacted,
09:52:53 they come in, they explain to us why they are not in
09:52:56 violation, and we deal with it.
09:52:59 We have had a couple places that have had tenants, that they
09:53:03 were actually trying to evict.
09:53:05 So having our investigation helped get rid of the bad
09:53:07 operator.
09:53:09 Usually the operator owner is the operator.
09:53:13 It's the tenant.
09:53:14 So where you wind up working hand in hand sometimes with the
09:53:17 property owners, and then the problem is gone at that point.
09:53:22 So it never actually winds up in front of you.
09:53:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Coyle, the recording, the numbers down
09:53:37 there pertain to restaurants?
09:53:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These numbers, yes, these are the annual
09:53:44 reports.
09:53:45 And either a special restaurant, a restaurant, an R zoning,
09:53:48 or you are someone that offers a condition to council to
09:53:53 report annually.
09:53:58 I put restaurant for my own terminology.
09:54:04 It's restaurant, the old R zoning from the zoning process or
09:54:08 someone that actually has within their ordinance the
09:54:11 agreement, the conditions to actually report annually.
09:54:19 It's a condition they would have offered us.
09:54:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm trying to understand these numbers.
09:54:24 So what we have here, which you presented us, is how many
09:54:37 are there that do not have to report annually?
09:54:40 Only those three?
09:54:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.
09:54:45 The question that was asked of me is how many citation
09:54:49 versus we issued.
09:54:49 We gave you numbers he related to the citations.
09:54:52 The first number 1353 for the active permits, there are say
09:54:58 353.
09:54:59 It's around 350 or so restaurants reporting requirements.
09:55:04 There are about a thousand --
09:55:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The citations were presented because they
09:55:11 didn't report?
09:55:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They didn't file on time.
09:55:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They didn't file on time.
09:55:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Or they didn't file the correct
09:55:21 percentages.
09:55:21 Or they showed --
09:55:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Percentages pertaining to restaurants.
09:55:26 What about bars?
09:55:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They don't have to report.
09:55:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
09:55:32 Thank you for getting there.
09:55:33 So these numbers pertain to the ones that are required to
09:55:39 report.
09:55:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
09:55:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What I would like to know is how many of
09:55:44 these are not required to report, 1353.
09:55:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: About a thousand.
09:55:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: About a thousand.
09:55:49 That's what I thought it was.
09:55:51 Thank you.
09:55:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
09:55:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Quick question.
09:55:55 Because you listed those three years in terms of the
09:55:58 restaurant reporting, and they seem to have the same number,
09:56:05 791, 92, just looking through it, do we have a compliance
09:56:13 issue with the same specific restaurants that are out there?
09:56:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A fair number of them are incorrectly or
09:56:24 not filed continually.
09:56:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: My question is, is it the same ones
09:56:28 typically?
09:56:29 Coyle ow Coyle the same ones, yes.
09:56:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So they don't know how to comply each and he
09:56:35 have year --
09:56:36 >> A lot of these places are corporate, out of other states,
09:56:40 and the manager is not filing the corporate letter.
09:56:44 We send a letter to the license holder or property owner and
09:56:48 the business operator.
09:56:49 We send out three letters to people that they are
09:56:52 noncompliant.
09:56:56 It's different every year.
09:56:57 You will get one of the big corporate restaurant chains
09:57:00 where one manager, even though they are all corporate
09:57:03 throughout the city, one of the locations, managers, if they
09:57:11 do it every time they do it right, and another manager has
09:57:14 just changed or whatever else, and the corporate person just
09:57:17 doesn't pay attention.
09:57:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The reason I am asking, it looks like if you
09:57:21 are talking about 350 or so, and it's between a quarter and
09:57:26 a third that are always the same, probably always the same
09:57:29 one, because it makes sense that it would always be about
09:57:32 that amount that would be noncompliant.
09:57:36 It doesn't seem like it's churning through and having a new
09:57:40 set of 90 some that are there, the same one.
09:57:42 We may want to look at how we do that process, and how we
09:57:46 train these folks and maybe even we want them to comply so
09:57:50 that we don't have so much fat time on the back end and look
09:57:55 at the -- you know, because once you get to the suspension
09:57:58 part of it becomes a big thing to deal with, and may even
09:58:02 want to deal with talking to some other representative.
09:58:06 Sometimes they are lawyers that may have already presented
09:58:09 their land use case to us, maybe reach out to those folks.
09:58:13 There's got to be a way to kind of reach out to some of
09:58:16 these clients because we don't want to see this much
09:58:19 noncompliance each and every year.
09:58:21 So --
09:58:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We do have them sign an affidavit when it
09:58:25 comes for a new sign-up.
09:58:28 We have them sign affidavit with the criteria, and our
09:58:30 reporting affidavit.
09:58:31 And we keep that on file.
09:58:33 We give them a copy and it's notarized that they are
09:58:36 accepting what the conditions are.
09:58:37 We also send, in December, we send a two-toned postcard.
09:58:43 We are not actually required to put them on notice to
09:58:46 remember to report.
09:58:47 But we do send them a very large postcard reminding them of
09:58:50 their exact days, and we get four or five different ways to
09:58:54 file.
09:58:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We are doing all those things and it's still
09:58:57 not be --
09:59:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I know, I know. Than I think the same
09:59:02 results a few years back in the one year that we didn't send
09:59:06 the postcard, because the year like the entire Puget for us
09:59:10 was cut.
09:59:11 So we had virtually the same number.
09:59:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Looking at some other ways.
09:59:20 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:59:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
09:59:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think Mr. Suarez' point, education is
09:59:26 everything.
09:59:27 So with no education on how a lot of these are not based
09:59:36 here, being filed by corporate offices in other states, they
09:59:39 are not educated to our process, and they probably have to
09:59:41 be educated through the process in the entire union.
09:59:47 So I can see where, you know, there are folks who are coming
09:59:51 in when they are issued a permit and signing that affidavit
09:59:53 are not the same people who are required every year by their
09:59:57 jobs to file these reports.
09:59:59 So that may be where some of the issue is coming in.
10:00:02 So a lot of folks hire a consultant to the file the initial
10:00:06 paperwork, and then, you know, they are not the ones who are
10:00:09 going to be doing it every year.
10:00:11 But what I see in these numbers, roughly how many square
10:00:15 miles is the City of Tampa?
10:00:18 >> 162, 167, something like that.
10:00:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So about 167 square miles, we have
10:00:25 roughly 860 active permits that are not in the CBD, South
10:00:35 Howard or Ybor.
10:00:37 I did the math.
10:00:37 >> Reporting?
10:00:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The first group of the 1353.
10:00:44 So in looking at the numbers of going to the restaurants
10:00:50 reporting requirements, I mean, it seems like relatively
10:00:54 small numbers of those who end up noncompliant, but a number
10:01:00 of cases that we brought, like you said, are relatively
10:01:03 small.
10:01:05 So I think, chair Miranda was the one who asked you those
10:01:10 questions, and for the specifics, because it doesn't look
10:01:17 like to me, other individual establishments that we received
10:01:21 complaints from, or about, that there's a big problem here.
10:01:27 It seems that mostly our businesses, which generally
10:01:31 speaking are small businesses were in the restaurant
10:01:34 business or the bar business, establishment, they have small
10:01:38 staff, limited ownership, on the than the corporate ones,
10:01:46 are doing what?
10:01:48 >> And there's 1010, 15 locations throughout the city that
10:01:53 are the real repeated problems.
10:01:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Out of all of these businesses, I mean,
10:02:05 is it statistically significant that we have problems?
10:02:10 >> I guess comparing numbers to numbers, but we do spend a
10:02:12 lot of time.
10:02:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The small amount that cause the most
10:02:23 problems.
10:02:25 I'm sorry.
10:02:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If we have the same level of issues of
10:02:29 all 1300 --
10:02:34 >> There would be chaos.
10:02:38 But like I said, it's the relatively small number of bad
10:02:41 actors that are causing the problems.
10:02:43 And for the most part, it seems like the system is working.
10:02:47 Maybe a little more education as Mr. Suarez pointed out on
10:02:50 how the filing process works so that you spend less time
10:02:55 trying to chase downs the ones that are filed and help them
10:02:58 to correctly submit the applications, and maybe have a
10:03:03 little more staff, a little more time to make that happen.
10:03:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:03:12 Mr. Cohen?
10:03:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I understand your train of thought with
10:03:16 that.
10:03:16 But I think there's one question that's in the middle still
10:03:21 needs to be inserted into it.
10:03:23 Of this 20 or 25 problem children or 13 or whatever the
10:03:28 number is, 10, if we have only closed down one or two in the
10:03:36 last three or four years, is it that difficult to make a
10:03:42 case against the 10 or 13 or 20 that we can only get to 2?
10:03:47 Because if that's the case, the matter is a problem.
10:03:52 I agree with Councilwoman Montelione that it would appear
10:03:55 that the vast majority of establishments in the city are
10:04:00 compliant, with the universe of noncompliant, are we at all
10:04:05 effective in dealing with them or are we constantly spinning
10:04:09 our wheels going around in circles?
10:04:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think we have had locations that have
10:04:19 issues --
10:04:21 >>HARRY COHEN: That's another issue.
10:04:22 I don't want to get into that.
10:04:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, but there are a couple of locations
10:04:27 that had or have noise issues --
10:04:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's an active lawsuit with the city
10:04:33 about noise.
10:04:34 >>PETE COWELL: I understand.
10:04:35 In general, yes.
10:04:36 There are times when a place is perceived to be an issue and
10:04:41 we do evaluate what the approval is and what all the rules
10:04:44 and regulations are for it.
10:04:45 There are some of those criteria for suspension or
10:04:48 revocation where we actually need a conviction.
10:04:52 And that can be someone pleading no contest.
10:04:54 We also have other things that could be suspended for
10:04:57 violations.
10:04:59 And those violations are generally related to the conditions
10:05:04 for the sale of alcohol.
10:05:05 So they actually have to do something specifically related
10:05:07 to what it was that you approved based on the alcohol.
10:05:12 If there are other cases or site issues, we may not bring an
10:05:16 alcohol case.
10:05:17 We may go after a different issue.
10:05:19 Like if they tear down a tree they go through a different
10:05:26 process.
10:05:26 But in general some of the things are still pending.
10:05:28 Some of the things that we have to wait for, like
10:05:31 convictions, we have to wait for what happens in the court
10:05:33 as well before we can bring them.
10:05:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin, then Mrs. Montelione.
10:05:38 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:05:43 I think Mrs. Coyle did a good job of answering the question.
10:05:48 Beyond that, though, it's a mix of what we see.
10:05:50 It is a small number.
10:05:52 They do take a great deal of time.
10:05:54 Some of the issues that we have deal with conditions.
10:06:00 So when people come and say, oh, we agreed to do that,
10:06:03 sometimes you say that will be an enforcement issue.
10:06:07 And they do that sometimes because they can see it coming
10:06:10 and sometimes because they looked at that and said that is
10:06:12 going to be a difficult case to bring.
10:06:14 Most of the time what happens is we evaluate the case, and
10:06:18 most of the cases, you know, we can bring forward.
10:06:21 If it's something that someone might not have been aware of
10:06:24 and then immediately become compliant, that case may be
10:06:28 done.
10:06:29 If it's a case where we notified them of the problems, they
10:06:32 come into compliance, we check the hearing, then we may
10:06:35 bring that to you anyway, not necessarily, you know, seeking
10:06:39 a punitive punishment at that point, but so it depends upon
10:06:44 the case.
10:06:45 I think for the most part we are able to build the cases.
10:06:48 But again, it is also something that's an issue to think
10:06:52 about when you are planting permits for a land use permit
10:06:55 that run was the land and you put operational on it like you
10:07:00 were talking about with the restaurant reporting.
10:07:02 Those things the business has to do.
10:07:05 The business will continually turn over, and you have got
10:07:07 these conditions that run with the land use permit as
10:07:09 opposed to permits that have to be filed every year for the
10:07:15 business directly -- or are directly tied to the business.
10:07:19 If the businesses have to comply with this because it's part
10:07:21 of the land use permit but it's not directly a land use
10:07:25 permit, sometimes we have to educate them every year because
10:07:27 the businesses turn over.
10:07:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin and Ms. Montelione.
10:07:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:07:39 Cathy -- Ms. Coyle, I'm sorry.
10:07:42 You can call me Yolie.
10:07:45 Out of about a thousand we can reduce that.
10:07:49 In there are grocery stores.
10:07:51 >> And convenience stores and Walgreen's and whatever else.
10:07:54 >> And do we have in that 10 or 15 any grocery stores, or
10:07:59 supermarkets involved?
10:08:01 >> No.
10:08:01 >> So what would be the number when we take out grocery
10:08:05 stores and convenience stores out of that 1,000?
10:08:10 Do we know?
10:08:12 >> I can have it run if you want me to. You can break it
10:08:15 down a little more for you.
10:08:17 >> That's going to bring it even lower.
10:08:20 >> My main concern is the amount of time and dollars that
10:08:25 are spent on the 10 or 15 or 20 problems.
10:08:34 I just heard a description from our legal on that process,
10:08:39 and the amount of money and time that is spent for 10 or 15
10:08:46 or 20.
10:08:46 I would imagine that the industry itself would want to help
10:08:55 to eliminate the bad actors, because they cost -- I would
10:09:04 like to see that number.
10:09:06 I would like to see the amount of money that is spent in
10:09:09 time and dollars to pursue these 10 or 15.
10:09:14 And granted, this is very true.
10:09:18 We are talking whatever, 99% are complying, and that's what
10:09:22 we expect.
10:09:23 That's why we allow the permit, because we assume that
10:09:28 everybody is going to follow the law.
10:09:31 There's always a few, and it costs a lot of money.
10:09:34 Therefore, when I look at it -- and this than is a workshop.
10:09:37 And I'm sorry that we didn't have a task force to really
10:09:42 look at this, because if we really wanted to study it,
10:09:45 that's what we would have done.
10:09:46 We would have brought in the industry, would have brought in
10:09:49 stakeholders, attorneys, to come in, the administration to
10:09:54 come in and really look at this and see what is it costing
10:09:57 us to pursue these 10 or 15?
10:10:00 So that number, I would like to know that number, the
10:10:07 restaurants -- I mean not the restaurants.
10:10:09 The grocery stores, so that we know the numbers that we are
10:10:13 talking about that do not have to report.
10:10:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can make a phone call and have it
10:10:21 broken down by the type that's issued and then give you the
10:10:26 numbers.
10:10:27 If it's a restaurant, if it's shoppers' goods, if it's
10:10:30 convenience store.
10:10:31 I can break them down for you.
10:10:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Because I think it's very important to get
10:10:35 that information to us for us to continue along this line.
10:10:41 And if we think that there is no problem in this city at
10:10:45 all, and that the dollars spent to pursue these 10 or 15 is
10:10:50 really not that much, then we don't need to look at this
10:10:56 anymore.
10:10:57 Thank you very much.
10:10:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:10:58 Mrs. Montelione.
10:10:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The person we haven't heard from yet
10:11:02 is -- you're on the front line.
10:11:09 And dealing with -- I'm sorry?
10:11:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that a new program, the front line?
10:11:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Dateline.
10:11:19 >> Good morning.
10:11:23 John -- Tampa Police Department.
10:11:24 And like anything, 10% of bad actors, traffic, burglary,
10:11:30 murder.
10:11:30 It's a very small percentage.
10:11:32 We talk about the calls.
10:11:34 We have calls, we always have 10 percenters.
10:11:39 What happens is the ones I do attack, the ones I go after,
10:11:42 the worst of the worst.
10:11:43 A lot of times, the way I work is, either close down, shut
10:11:49 down, and we are done with them, or kind of like any normal
10:11:54 person, gets a traffic ticket.
10:11:55 All of a sudden you are driving, gets real good for about 30
10:11:59 to 90 days and then back to speeding again, hit you with
10:12:02 another ticket, driving again, good for 30 to 90. Same with
10:12:07 the actors out there selling alcohol.
10:12:09 You investigate them.
10:12:10 They are good players for about a year.
10:12:12 And of a sudden, they get new managers, you educate them
10:12:16 with a ticket with a citation or arrest, good actors for
10:12:20 another year.
10:12:21 That's where you are getting the over and over 10
10:12:24 percenters.
10:12:25 I don't know if there's a way to combat that.
10:12:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You read my mind.
10:12:30 Generally speaking, in police work like you said, it's
10:12:33 always going to be 10% no matter what you do, typically
10:12:38 across the country.
10:12:39 >> Through my career.
10:12:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I think any criminal justice
10:12:47 classroom you are going to hear the same thing.
10:12:50 Something that is statistically significant that you are
10:12:52 always going to have a certain percentage that don't comply.
10:12:56 Which no matter what.
10:12:58 Even --
10:13:01 >> And time to get out there.
10:13:02 Do surveillance.
10:13:04 Bring the abatement board in front of you guys.
10:13:07 You know, yeah.
10:13:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And report the regulations.
10:13:13 >> It's part of business of running the city.
10:13:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And a good point, sometimes we have a
10:13:20 way to compensate for that cost and sometimes we don't.
10:13:22 So sometimes the amount of money we charge for an
10:13:26 application be fee by the state law, we are only allowed to
10:13:32 charge the amount of money to process that fee. In other
10:13:37 places across the country, they build in a certain amount of
10:13:46 overhead in that fee knowing they are going to use that
10:13:49 amount of money to enforce regulations for those who are
10:13:52 noncompliant.
10:13:53 But we don't have that luxury in the State of Florida
10:13:55 because we are only regulating the amount of money, more or
10:13:59 less, that permits.
10:14:04 >> We recently had a bad actor, that I think with will be
10:14:11 closing down within a year or two.
10:14:12 The state jumped in, and had to pay a $10,000 fine.
10:14:21 So, I mean, we hit them in the pocketbook but it's usually a
10:14:27 joint effort.
10:14:27 The state will get their fee.
10:14:29 We'll do our fee.
10:14:30 Sometimes we do recover some costs.
10:14:31 >> And I know there was some discussion about the amount of
10:14:35 assistance that we were receiving from the state in
10:14:40 enforcing the alcoholic beverage.
10:14:43 Has it gotten better?
10:14:45 Is it being looked at?
10:14:46 Because I had a discussion with some with the office not too
10:14:54 long ago and they said they would be happy to after the
10:14:57 summer, after the session ended -- I shouldn't say die -- to
10:15:04 go ahead and start looking at ways they could improve their
10:15:07 investigations and their relationship.
10:15:12 >> Alcohol and beverage is always there for me when I called
10:15:15 them.
10:15:17 The undercover officers, task force, and the state has been
10:15:25 helpful as far as I'm concerned with the City of Tampa.
10:15:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Is there any recommendation that you
10:15:30 would have for us on those 10 to 13 to try to define -- defy
10:15:39 the odds -- is there any specific help that we can give you
10:15:43 to address those 10 to 15 that continually break the rules?
10:15:52 >> I'm one person who does the alcohol licensing.
10:15:58 And the chief's office, helps us with the investigation.
10:16:07 I'm here sometimes.
10:16:08 It gets kind of lost in the paperwork sometimes.
10:16:11 The processes get long.
10:16:12 You have to wait for convictions because part of charging
10:16:15 them is being able to evict them, or give them due process.
10:16:20 At the time constraints are usually the court system.
10:16:22 And that's with everything.
10:16:27 If there was a magic way to speed things up I wish I could
10:16:32 find it.
10:16:32 We have to work within the system.
10:16:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was out with you on Fowler Avenue on a
10:16:38 drinking raid, and to see the numbers of police cars,
10:16:41 undercover units, undercover officers, I know you hand
10:16:47 picked a really young-looking one.
10:16:50 And it's an impressive operation.
10:16:52 It has to be about 40 people out there that night.
10:16:54 >> That's a good example.
10:16:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It was a sight.
10:17:00 I'll tell you that.
10:17:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:17:02 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:17:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I was reminded in my discussion with Mrs.
10:17:07 Coyle, and Ms. Coyle, I might need you to reconfirm this,
10:17:11 but I asked about the permitting fee.
10:17:13 And this goes to Ms. Vizzi's question.
10:17:18 The annual fee is $50.
10:17:21 Is that right?
10:17:23 You told me something.
10:17:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We were on part A of the discussion.
10:17:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, this applies to that.
10:17:34 When you told me it was $50, I thought, well, that's
10:17:38 tenderings maybe.
10:17:43 So it's not really a big burden for people, you know, if we
10:17:50 wanted to make up some of our cost ifs we raise that fee a
10:17:54 little bit and they have to pay $50 a year.
10:17:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, not to be confused.
10:17:59 $50 is related to part A of the discussion which was the
10:18:02 question about what potentially it would cost for the
10:18:05 late-night permit.
10:18:09 That number.
10:18:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I see.
10:18:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You have to pay to file.
10:18:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say something here.
10:18:21 It's complicated and it's not complicated.
10:18:24 I like to speak to both officer Miller and Ms. Coyle.
10:18:28 When you are looking at the backup on the AB restaurant
10:18:32 reporting, things have changed.
10:18:35 They don't come here anymore like they used to, between
10:18:39 January and January.
10:18:39 The line would be all the way down here, all the way back
10:18:42 and halfway 30 or 40 of them.
10:18:45 And we were here each one individually, and it was like
10:18:49 let's make a deal.
10:18:50 People with checks.
10:18:52 Every time, you know, there's one thing that I remember, my
10:18:58 CPA forgot to do it.
10:18:59 I never met the CPA because I don't know if there was a CPA.
10:19:03 Never have.
10:19:03 But it used to be all the way around and we make a deal, and
10:19:08 it was much more than 10 or 15 of them.
10:19:12 You were here.
10:19:17 Mayor Buckhorn was here.
10:19:19 And on the front side, if we are looking at costs, what is
10:19:23 the upfront cost to the city for the application when they
10:19:28 come and apply?
10:19:31 When the actual applicant wants to open up one of these
10:19:34 establishments, whether it's a restaurant or whatever.
10:19:37 Has that changed?
10:19:38 Has the police department changed?
10:19:40 In other words, all this is part of an act, not one part
10:19:44 that we are looking at.
10:19:45 It much bigger than what it is.
10:19:47 But when I look at the reviews, and these are facts, I
10:19:51 assume, I assume they are correct, it's really dwindled down
10:19:58 than, I guarantee you that's more IRS statements that go out
10:20:08 that are not reported, late for reporting, mistakes on them,
10:20:14 than any fact you have given me today, or any other part of
10:20:16 the city, including code enforcement, including anything we
10:20:20 do, including compliance on your rental certificates.
10:20:25 I guarantee you will find more than 4%.
10:20:28 And that's what you are looking at 3% versus 91.
10:20:31 And that's my opinion it, that this is equal to or less than
10:20:35 any other department in the city.
10:20:38 And I'm just making an assumption on my part because the
10:20:40 numbers, when you look at 12, there's nada, zero, maybe one
10:20:46 that complies.
10:20:47 And I remember those years when they used to come here, when
10:20:50 they did not comply, and you sent the letter out you were
10:20:55 going to close, but we also used to do something that we
10:20:57 don't do anymore, I don't believe.
10:20:59 We used to go audit.
10:21:01 Do we still audit?
10:21:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Speaking about the text amendment or just
10:21:07 having text amendments that you all moved forward that
10:21:09 actually they will be required to submit them T commercial
10:21:13 insurance audit.
10:21:16 It's actually already done.
10:21:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We used to have had an auditor go check
10:21:20 at random these places to make sure that the 49/51 was a
10:21:30 pretty true figure.
10:21:30 And now we don't see that.
10:21:32 We do a different way of doing it.
10:21:34 And I'm glad that Mr. Suarez brought that up.
10:21:37 We are going to add some text to the conversation that we
10:21:39 are having here.
10:21:40 So what I am saying is that this is an area that if the rest
10:21:46 of the city was run this way, I think we would be in pretty
10:21:50 good shape, from what I see here.
10:21:52 Only on this paper.
10:21:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I counted them myself.
10:21:56 I went through each file.
10:21:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:21:58 Any other council members?
10:21:59 Now we go back to the public next.
10:22:03 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
10:22:09 I'm still here.
10:22:12 This is a great report.
10:22:14 I'm sorry, I have a lot of respect for this woman.
10:22:16 And I hear a lot of people give her a lot of compliments in
10:22:21 the neighborhood.
10:22:21 Okay?
10:22:25 We are still discussing here a noncompliance problem.
10:22:27 Okay?
10:22:31 Council and the State of Florida has given this city every
10:22:34 legal right to hold these people's properties accountable.
10:22:43 It the same thing as code enforcement.
10:22:46 Code enforcement is many times greater than 91.
10:22:51 91 is nothing compared to exceed enforcement.
10:22:54 But the fact that we don't use the state statute or the city
10:22:57 ordinance or even have documentation of why we don't use it
10:23:08 creates a problem.
10:23:08 You give them the tools, we don't use it.
10:23:17 And why?
10:23:18 There's no reason why we don't use the legal magic that we
10:23:22 have to improve quality of life, not only in the restaurants
10:23:27 but also in the bars, in our neighborhoods, everything.
10:23:33 It is totally beyond me.
10:23:35 Thank you.
10:23:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:23:36 Next, please.
10:23:37 >> I live at 1408 east canner my concern, we have a
10:23:52 neighborhood that's it getting real popular for restaurant
10:23:55 and bars, and looking at what happened on South Howard, and
10:23:59 especially because how close we are to residential in our
10:24:05 neighborhood.
10:24:06 We are concerned that there's not the enforcement, and we
10:24:10 are concerned that sometimes, been here long enough I
10:24:16 watched what happened in Ybor City where every wet zoning
10:24:19 request that came down the pike got approved.
10:24:21 And maybe what we need is something that says you can only
10:24:26 have a certain percentage of wet zoning in an area
10:24:29 especially if there's a problem with enforcing it.
10:24:32 And I know that the comment was made, well, throws only ten
10:24:36 or whatever.
10:24:37 But if one of those ten is behind your house or block from
10:24:41 your house, it's the only problem that matters.
10:24:44 Even if the rest of the city is calm, and cool, and that's
10:24:48 no problem anyplace else, and that's what we are concerned
10:24:53 about is that they be enforced especially what's going on in
10:24:57 our neighborhood and some requests that I know are coming.
10:24:59 Thank you very much.
10:25:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If thank you very much.
10:25:02 Next, please.
10:25:03 >> I'm Ellen Snelling, the chair of Tampa Alcohol Coalition.
10:25:09 And I wanted to comment on what detective Miller was talking
10:25:13 about, and ten problem establishments that are known.
10:25:18 And the amount of time that it might take to actually get
10:25:22 the enforcement.
10:25:23 I think still to keep in mind the idea of a business permit,
10:25:27 not something that you would have to go through AB&T or go
10:25:31 through the court system to enforce but something you can
10:25:33 hold them more accountable on a quicker basis if that's
10:25:36 possible.
10:25:37 That's one idea.
10:25:38 The other is restaurants.
10:25:39 A lot of the restaurants are not special restaurants in the
10:25:43 state.
10:25:46 Lots of them are the other type.
10:25:48 And Chairman Miranda mentioned the auditing, when they turn
10:25:52 in the paperwork in January, they have figures on there, but
10:25:56 how do you know that that's correct?
10:25:58 And I know you are going to have an amendment with insurance
10:26:01 information, but still, who is really going out there and
10:26:04 checking that these figures are correct?
10:26:07 Because I think the idea of a restaurant, and becomes a bar
10:26:10 at night, is a huge issue, has a bigs impact on the
10:26:13 community.
10:26:14 And they probably run very close to the 51/49.
10:26:18 So I think they need to be held accountable for that and
10:26:21 more than just something on a piece of paper.
10:26:24 If there's some system to work in, even when they get the
10:26:27 restaurant permit that they pay a little extra fee to have
10:26:30 an audit done.
10:26:31 On a random basis like you mentioned before.
10:26:36 As far as enforcement, when you have 1300-plus alcohol
10:26:42 establishments, and you expect your local law enforcement
10:26:48 which would be Tampa Police Department, or alcoholic
10:26:50 beverage and tobacco, it's really hard to check on these
10:26:54 during the course of a year.
10:26:55 They generally respond to problems.
10:26:56 And at the Tampa alcohol coalition we have the division of
10:27:03 alcohol and tobacco, and they tell me their four agents for
10:27:08 Hillsborough County.
10:27:08 So just imagine throws 3,000 alcohol outlets countywide.
10:27:13 You have four agents.
10:27:14 And they do an awesome job.
10:27:16 They will help out anyone who needs their help, but they
10:27:20 cannot be proactive as they would like to be because it is
10:27:23 alcoholic beverage and tobacco, and I understand they also
10:27:27 do illegal drugs.
10:27:29 They have had a lot of problems, believe it or not,
10:27:31 moonshine lately, so they have other things to do.
10:27:34 I just want to bring that out that they can't be act
10:27:37 proactive as they would like.
10:27:39 The last thing I just want to state, Councilman Reddick for
10:27:43 his work on the open house party type situations within the
10:27:46 city, and he's really done a great job of getting everyone
10:27:50 together and the University of Tampa, the neighborhood, the
10:27:54 businesses, and we got this kind of showcase where he's done
10:27:57 at university of Tampa last week, a lot of universities
10:28:01 across the state came to hear how Tampa has handled these
10:28:04 open parties.
10:28:05 I want to thank you for that.
10:28:06 (Bell sounds).
10:28:10 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I wanted to answer part of what you said
10:28:12 about the insurance audit.
10:28:14 Here is why it's an important type amendment for us.
10:28:17 It's not just a piece of paper that they have to fill out.
10:28:20 Once it's reported to the insurance company, the insurance
10:28:22 company will bill them for them not being -- excuse me, they
10:28:26 will bill them out of their insurance program for not being
10:28:28 a restaurant.
10:28:29 What that means is all those vendors that they have to do
10:28:32 business with that require an insurance certificate will
10:28:36 want to know why don't they have insurance?
10:28:38 They won't do anything with them anymore.
10:28:41 It is a chain of causation that will make that bad actor no
10:28:46 longer be a restaurant and have to become a bar.
10:28:49 They will have to be charged more by the insurance company.
10:28:52 If they are not really a restaurant, they don't want to be a
10:28:54 bar because it's going to cost them a lot more money.
10:28:56 So there's real money out of their pocket.
10:28:58 It is not just an empty gesture on our part.
10:29:01 I just want to make sure you understood how that worked.
10:29:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
10:29:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'll add to that.
10:29:08 And just remember that it should the operation fudge on the
10:29:13 numbers that they turn into the insurance company, if
10:29:19 anything happens here, they will not collect on their
10:29:22 insurance.
10:29:26 When you talk about enforcement, look at the insurance
10:29:31 companies.
10:29:32 And so if they fudge on those numbers, and anything happens
10:29:35 to them, they are not going to collect from the insurance
10:29:38 company anything.
10:29:41 So just wanted to add.
10:29:43 That thank you for your comments, Councilman.
10:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:29:49 Be.
10:29:50 >> I'm ed, Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs.
10:29:53 But Hyde Park, South Howard, and spend time in Ybor City,
10:30:03 but, you know, have a focus on this issue.
10:30:07 One of my more minor focuses
10:30:11 A little story about this place I spoke about, the deck.
10:30:17 It convinces me there's an underground.
10:30:19 Throws an underground in the alcoholic beverage industry,
10:30:22 we'll say.
10:30:26 One of the bus drivers new him and went there from time to
10:30:30 time, one of the Hart drivers, and he told me that the guy
10:30:35 had his rent increased by $200 a month, and he couldn't
10:30:39 Pate.
10:30:40 So he went out of business.
10:30:42 And that's kind of sad because, you know, he was a little
10:30:45 guy trying to make a living from selling pizza and beer.
10:30:49 And the problem was that in catering to his clientele, he
10:30:58 would from time to time get loud mouths, and the place
10:31:02 wasn't a pain in the neck problem most of the time.
10:31:06 It was just now and then when you have four or five of these
10:31:09 loud mouths coming in and bouncing off of each other.
10:31:12 And I saw the same thing happen to another place the Yard of
10:31:16 Ale.
10:31:17 The Yard of Ale is never a problem.
10:31:19 But one time I went by and there were three or four of these
10:31:22 loud mouths bouncing off of each other.
10:31:24 So you have got noise problems.
10:31:26 And it's a static noise problem.
10:31:28 So how are we ever going to deal with vehicular noise, I
10:31:32 don't know.
10:31:33 This is a place I think that bears on this.
10:31:36 This is four corners, and it's way far out.
10:31:40 Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico.
10:31:43 But think --
10:31:50 >> Not Nevada.
10:31:52 >> And this is why I think this issue comes up
10:31:55 I think just about everybody on this board lives in South
10:31:59 Tampa.
10:31:59 Somehow, the districts come together, and you have got four
10:32:05 corners, and that's why you have a noise situation out of
10:32:09 control in Sulphur Springs, and you also to a certain
10:32:14 extent, you have it in West Tampa.
10:32:16 The people come from here and talk about East Tampa.
10:32:21 And, I mean, these are places with serious noise problems.
10:32:25 I think serious enough that they are impacting the real
10:32:28 estate market.
10:32:29 So the thing is, and this is on item 7 through 9 more than
10:32:35 6, but 4, 5, but it does bear out objective criteria.
10:32:43 I thought the legal department was remiss.
10:32:45 And then they came in and they spoke about this, the board
10:32:49 is not using objective criteria. And in the paper something
10:32:53 about decibels on the noise problem.
10:32:54 (Bell sounds)
10:32:55 And somebody from here was talking about it.
10:32:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:32:58 Next, please.
10:32:59 Next, please.
10:33:00 Next, please.
10:33:00 >> 14th amendment.
10:33:02 >> Teresa Miller.
10:33:08 I have been coming to these meetings on and off.
10:33:11 And I guess I'm a little confused.
10:33:16 If you break the law there's penalties.
10:33:18 And it sound like to be me that we are not giving our police
10:33:21 force what they need.
10:33:23 They have too much red tape to go through to close these
10:33:26 places down.
10:33:27 The police office that was just here that got that award, he
10:33:32 made some changes.
10:33:33 And he picked a few of those kid and showed the other kids
10:33:36 this is what's going to happen.
10:33:37 We need to do this with the bars and shut some of them down
10:33:41 and show the other bars if you don't come into compliance
10:33:45 with our laws, then you are going to be shut down.
10:33:48 You don't need any more laws on the books.
10:33:51 We need to enforce the ones we have.
10:33:53 And your comment about only 10% of the facilities are, you
10:33:58 know, a problem.
10:34:01 And the other City Council, the other Tampa groups, this
10:34:11 involves people's lives and safety.
10:34:15 If 10% of the people are getting watering on days they
10:34:21 shouldn't, the next time you get a hefty fee.
10:34:25 Those far different than 10% of people who aren't coming
10:34:28 into compliance with our bars.
10:34:30 Lives are being involved in that.
10:34:32 You have an increase in underage drink.
10:34:34 You have many people leaving these bars who are impaired and
10:34:37 on our roads.
10:34:38 And we really need to give the police what they need to
10:34:42 enforce the existing laws, and get those bars shut down and
10:34:49 the others will quickly come into compliance.
10:34:52 So I don't know how I can help as a concerned partner or
10:34:55 citizen, but something needs to be done.
10:34:57 And we need to make some decision and move forward.
10:35:02 On the problem of what we were trying to do last year, with
10:35:07 that new ordinance, or what was that, not ordinance, but the
10:35:15 new -- what was that, Ellen, the certificate?
10:35:21 The permit?
10:35:23 Part of that was, the restaurants didn't really understand
10:35:28 the bars what that would involve, that really would help
10:35:30 them.
10:35:31 So whatever you come up with, if we could communicate to the
10:35:34 restaurants and bars it's going to help them, I think they
10:35:37 would get on board with changes that need to be made, if you
10:35:41 are going to make changes, because they seem to
10:35:45 misunderstand that it was to really help them and keep this
10:35:49 community safe and draw more people to Tampa than send them
10:35:53 away.
10:35:54 Thank you.
10:35:54 I hope something gets accomplished in this area.
10:35:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:35:57 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:35:58 >>MARY MULHERN: We are going to be discussing that late
10:36:01 night permit next.
10:36:02 We just did B before A.
10:36:04 But that's A.
10:36:05 So we will be discussing that.
10:36:07 But with regard to B, if other council members have been
10:36:14 talking about it -- I don't know if people are in favor of
10:36:16 it, but I would be in favor of reinstating the auditing on
10:36:23 the restaurants, like Chairman Miranda said we used to do.
10:36:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the public?
10:36:32 Oh, Mr. Reddick.
10:36:33 I'm sorry.
10:36:34 He's the one that's kind enough to stay very quiet until
10:36:38 everything was brought into focus.
10:36:40 [ Laughter ]
10:36:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:36:54 I don't want no one in this audience to get the impression
10:36:57 we don't take action when people come before us with these
10:36:59 problems.
10:37:00 Because since I have been on this council, we have taken
10:37:03 made some tough decisions when it came down to bars and
10:37:06 restaurants, and when we had the problem on 7th Avenue
10:37:13 with the bar, they ended up closing down.
10:37:17 So I don't want no one to get the impression that we are not
10:37:19 doing anything to deal with this issue.
10:37:22 But this chart, this report that Mrs. Coyle gave us, and I
10:37:32 see the 2993 total permits, and doing my numbers, 253 of
10:37:39 these are in my district.
10:37:41 That's a large number.
10:37:44 So here 141 Ybor City, and you had 112 CBD Channel District,
10:37:54 come out to 253 in my particular district.
10:37:59 I understand we are going to have some bad apples.
10:38:04 I understand you are going to have some bad apples.
10:38:08 People who frequent clubs.
10:38:12 They might have people there but there's going to be one are
10:38:16 two that get out of hand and disturbing and make it bad for
10:38:19 all the others.
10:38:20 But I truly believe that that small percentage that are
10:38:27 causing all the problems, we can deal with those issues.
10:38:31 Be if the staff, the law enforcement bring those
10:38:36 troublemakers to this body, we should have policy in place
10:38:43 to address and teal with those issues.
10:38:46 And I think we can do that.
10:38:51 I don't think make any drastic changes.
10:38:54 I don't see a need for that.
10:38:57 And we have the tools to do what need to be done.
10:39:02 We can get this done.
10:39:04 I strongly believe in enforcement.
10:39:07 And I strongly believe -- I didn't know this, but what the
10:39:12 chairman stated about the auditor going out and making sure
10:39:15 that they were doing a 51/49, maybe that's something we need
10:39:19 to evaluate.
10:39:20 And I will support that.
10:39:24 And to make sure that these restaurants, these bars, 51%,
10:39:33 49, then let's go investigate them.
10:39:35 And if they are not doing it, actually, we need to take
10:39:40 action as a council.
10:39:41 I mean, we have to do this, the responsibility, to make sure
10:39:46 these people are in compliance.
10:39:48 And if they are not, then we need to take drastic action to
10:39:51 make sure they come in or put them out of business.
10:39:56 So I'm in support of a strong enforcement.
10:39:59 I'm in support to give the staff and law enforcement the
10:40:03 necessary tools to make sure these people come into
10:40:08 compliance.
10:40:08 And also be in support of going back to the old days.
10:40:16 Mr. Miranda, I don't know how long.
10:40:25 It sound good to me.
10:40:27 And I will support that, but I think at times we need to
10:40:33 make decisions.
10:40:34 And my colleague Mrs. Capin made a comment earlier that made
10:40:43 me tickle inside, don't believe that it's necessary to move
10:40:47 on, then drop it.
10:40:49 And so I'm at the point now, we need to come up with some
10:40:53 plans, come up with some answers, or we need to move on from
10:40:58 this issue.
10:40:59 Because we have dealt with this for a long time.
10:41:02 And I think it's time to move ahead.
10:41:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I appreciate you getting all the
10:41:07 information from the audience, and then council members
10:41:09 coming up with a very good equivalent of what's happening
10:41:12 here.
10:41:13 But let me just say this.
10:41:14 And I'm not here to offend anybody or anything else.
10:41:17 But you can't compare alcohol zoning to a water meter.
10:41:22 And let me say why.
10:41:23 Water meter is not zoned.
10:41:25 You pay an application.
10:41:26 You get it.
10:41:27 You pay water bill.
10:41:28 You either pay it or you don't pay it.
10:41:31 You don't pay, you get your water cut off.
10:41:34 That happens in alcohol zoning also but not with us.
10:41:37 If you don't pay that bill upon delivery, upon ten days,
10:41:40 depending upon the circumstances, guess what, you get cut
10:41:43 off.
10:41:43 You can't buy any.
10:41:48 One distributor won't sell you to another one.
10:41:50 It doesn't work that way.
10:41:52 However, that land, when you rezone something here, or any
10:41:56 other place in Florida, that zoning goes with the land, not
10:42:00 with the building.
10:42:01 That land is zoned for alcohol forever.
10:42:06 And what I'm saying is it's more difficult to GOP after --
10:42:13 and we have in the past, and we have been successful, to do
10:42:15 that type of take back the alcohol zoning than it is a water
10:42:21 meter.
10:42:22 Water meter, you don't pay, take the meter out.
10:42:26 I can't go take a building out of a piece of land that ain't
10:42:29 mine.
10:42:29 So just enormous legal problems and enormous city resources.
10:42:36 And be when we have to do it, we do it.
10:42:38 Just not that we don't like to do it.
10:42:40 We want to do it when we are 100% right.
10:42:43 And these are the things that we are up against.
10:42:45 So it's not that easy to say just close them down.
10:42:50 I have yet heard one person come here and tell me where
10:42:53 there's one problem that we auto go after.
10:42:57 Mr. Cohen.
10:42:58 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
10:43:02 As always, a very interesting discussion, and everyone has
10:43:05 made some very interesting point.
10:43:11 I have spending the last couple of weeks going out on Howard
10:43:14 Avenue at night, and -- [ Laughter ]
10:43:23 I my younger brothers were visiting and they went with me.
10:43:29 And, you know, it sound like a joke.
10:43:33 But the reality is that Howard Avenue changes very
10:43:41 drastically between about 9:30 and 11:30 at night and I
10:43:45 don't usually stay out that late.
10:43:47 So the only way that I can experience it is by making a
10:43:51 conscious effort to go out and actually observe what's going
10:43:54 on.
10:43:55 And the thing that has really struck me over the past couple
10:43:58 of weeks is that the problem that we are talking about, at
10:44:07 least Howard Avenue, has all sorts of different causes.
10:44:10 It's not any one thing that is making the situation on
10:44:14 Howard difficult for the surrounding neighborhoods to deal
10:44:19 with.
10:44:20 It's a lot of different things.
10:44:21 And I heard a few of the things alluded to today in the
10:44:25 public comment.
10:44:26 And I have observed some of them myself.
10:44:29 And I just wanted to say what a few of them are, because
10:44:33 they are not necessarily things that are right for us to
10:44:38 legislate.
10:44:39 They are things like Mr. Reddick pointed out that sometimes
10:44:41 we can deal with when we are actually going through the
10:44:44 approval process as we have when we sit here and evaluate
10:44:49 new applications for bars and restaurants but, you know,
10:44:54 someone made the comment, when they have so many
10:45:01 concentrated in any one place?
10:45:02 Well, our code has a distance separation in it that for
10:45:06 years was raised.
10:45:07 So whether us or previous councils only have ourselves to
10:45:13 blame for having permitted things that are right next to one
10:45:16 another.
10:45:18 Our problems at least on Howard are greatly exacerbated by
10:45:21 the fact that we cannot wide ten road.
10:45:24 We have in a public transportation, and we don't have enough
10:45:27 parking.
10:45:27 Now, I am in the process of working with the public works
10:45:31 department on a couple of ideas to create some more parking.
10:45:34 But the ideas that we are talking about at this point are
10:45:38 only things that are going to Chip away at the problem.
10:45:41 They are not going to solve it wholesale.
10:45:45 You know, the comment was made about the 51/49.
10:45:51 And how that could be manipulated.
10:45:54 You know, a place could be open all day long and nerve
10:45:57 nothing but food and then solve alcohol predominantly at
10:46:02 night and still meet the 51-49.
10:46:06 If the 51/49 doesn't mean -- there's a 51/49 split.
10:46:13 We have had extensive discussions here related to noise.
10:46:19 And we are not going to get into that specifically today due
10:46:21 to some of the pending litigation issues regarding that.
10:46:25 But we certainly attempt to try to deal with that problem,
10:46:30 and some new, more creative ways that give the police more
10:46:35 powers of enforcement.
10:46:36 And I want to say something about what was said about loud
10:46:44 mouth bouncing off one of another.
10:46:46 A lot of this is by human beings behaving badly.
10:46:50 And nothing that we do up here is going to ultimately --
10:46:55 going to deal with people that are just plain acting out.
10:47:01 And that manifests itself in a lot of ways.
10:47:04 It may be making noise.
10:47:07 Even leaving an establishment that they make noise in the
10:47:09 neighborhood, not necessarily the establishment's fault,
10:47:12 that the person is belligerent.
10:47:15 The biggest problem on Howard Avenue that everyone complains
10:47:18 about is the Jay walking.
10:47:21 I mean, the streets are absolutely filled with people.
10:47:23 That's a totally separate issue than anything that we have
10:47:26 been discussing.
10:47:27 So, you know, to those that are frustrated about where this
10:47:31 has gone or wherever it may or may not go in the future,
10:47:34 this is something that is made up of a lot of different
10:47:37 incremental problems.
10:47:38 And my view is that you attack this by going after these
10:47:45 individual problems and chipping away at them.
10:47:47 I remember when we were having a discussion on homelessness
10:47:51 at one point that we were talking about how important it was
10:47:55 for governments to move forward with smaller initiatives
10:48:00 that created five units of housing over here and 20 units
10:48:05 over here in order to sort of work at chipping away at the
10:48:08 problem.
10:48:08 And my sense of the problems on Howard, they really --
10:48:15 Howard is a bit unique in the city right now.
10:48:17 The problems on Howard don't have any one magic bullet to
10:48:22 solve that.
10:48:22 They have about ten different subsets, all of which need to
10:48:26 be addressed separately.
10:48:29 So that's my take as we move into the next period of the
10:48:34 discussion.
10:48:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to clarify something.
10:48:40 I was checking with our council attorney Mr. Shelby, because
10:48:44 I'm a little confused as to what we are actually talking
10:48:48 about here, because we have, you know, different parts of
10:48:52 this motion.
10:48:53 And I thought we were talking about part A.
10:48:57 And I thought we were talking about the regulation of sales
10:49:00 of alcoholic beverages.
10:49:01 I mean, that's the discussion we have been having, isn't it?
10:49:06 >> B.
10:49:10 We started with B.let me explain this.
10:49:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I have B over here to the list of
10:49:19 questions.
10:49:20 Okay.
10:49:20 And in the motion, the way it on the calendar, even though
10:49:24 it's broken up into A and B, as you said before that
10:49:29 conversation about noise bleeding into something else, I
10:49:33 think that B has run into A because all of this discussion
10:49:38 that we have had here and the testimony that we have heard
10:49:40 from staff are, to me, intertwined.
10:49:44 So, you know, we have been talking about they can now for
10:49:52 quite some time.
10:49:53 I want to move away from B and get into A.
10:49:56 And if somebody is going to make a motion to do something,
10:49:59 do it now, because we have already heard from the public, I
10:50:03 think, on a lot of the same issues, and I really would like
10:50:10 to move the discussion along.
10:50:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So would I, believe me.
10:50:15 Okay, thank you, Mrs. Montelione.
10:50:18 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:50:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:50:20 We did talk a little bit of some of the things that are
10:50:23 going into A.
10:50:24 But what happened was our report from Ms. Coyle only dealt
10:50:28 with the restaurants and not with bars.
10:50:35 So I would like to make a motion on part B that legal come
10:50:42 back with a report about whether we could add some kind of
10:50:48 independent audit of the permits, and whether it be just,
10:50:54 you know, perhaps the ones that have been cited, for
10:50:59 instance, the 293 that Ms. Coyle added up for us over the
10:51:05 last few years, or whether it's, you know, on a biennial
10:51:10 basis, or every three years or something, if there could be
10:51:14 an audit of the sale that's independent, not just the self
10:51:20 recording of the individual restaurants.
10:51:24 So if somebody can come back with that, and maybe explain.
10:51:28 I don't remember, I think there has never been auditing in
10:51:33 place since I have been on council.
10:51:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin?
10:51:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I will second that.
10:51:42 May I make a friendly amendment to that?
10:51:44 And that is that just for the administration to add to the
10:51:52 budget, there used to be in code enforcement, just in code
10:51:56 enforcement, there was Mr. Miller, is he here?
10:52:01 You know about this.
10:52:03 Please come up here.
10:52:05 And in code enforcement, there was one person in charge of
10:52:12 looking at alcoholic beverage permits.
10:52:16 And making sure randomly and otherwise by complaint-driven
10:52:20 to make sure that these places were in compliance.
10:52:23 I would recommend that that person be reinstated in our code
10:52:28 enforcement.
10:52:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It was a business tax which is now part
10:52:39 of enforcement.
10:52:40 I am actually the person that does that, myself, and we
10:52:44 actually create the database.
10:52:46 The letters come from me because it was moved under the
10:52:49 zoning --
10:52:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I understand what you do.
10:52:51 And this person -- come back here, Mr. Miller.
10:52:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We still utilize code enforcement.
10:53:00 There is a person assigned from field service to do our
10:53:03 inspections for us already.
10:53:04 Okay.
10:53:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, this is a specific person for a
10:53:17 specific job, we have over a thousand establishments of
10:53:23 which -- I don't know how many are restaurants and bars yet.
10:53:30 And that was very specific to that job.
10:53:35 It wasn't because they weren't in compliance, like the
10:53:38 restaurants are, which is reporting, because you are sending
10:53:43 out a person the from the restaurant --
10:53:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That job was shifted to land development
10:53:52 in early 2000.
10:53:53 That person actually worked for Mel.
10:53:55 That person was the one who created the Rolodex system that
10:53:58 I am talking about they've converted to a mapping database.
10:54:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, because the order orphaned was passed
10:54:05 for the placard and that's why that database -- because when
10:54:09 I went there, that Rolodex was still there, and had that
10:54:12 ordinance not passed, in order to be able to have those
10:54:19 placards in all of the alcoholic beverage establishments,
10:54:24 that's how that came about.
10:54:26 And I'm very happy that that's exactly what it did, because
10:54:29 it was very needed.
10:54:32 So I'm not --
10:54:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We still have a person, LaShawn, who was
10:54:40 here before, she actually does that job.
10:54:42 These what she does.
10:54:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: She goes randomly?
10:54:44 >> She went yesterday with Mr. Miller and measured it with
10:54:48 pictures.
10:54:49 Not randomly.
10:54:50 They are complaint driven, yes.
10:54:53 I'm trying to say, we still perform that function.
10:54:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We are not performing it --
10:55:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm sorry.
10:55:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You know what?
10:55:05 Mr. Miller, please.
10:55:10 Don Miller.
10:55:11 We used to have a guy, alcohol inspector.
10:55:14 We still do have LaShawn that helps out.
10:55:18 Years ago, we used to have the alcohol inspector.
10:55:26 This is officer Don Moore.
10:55:28 And seemed to be in a different role, throughout this.
10:55:33 LaShawn, I think, is very active be with me.
10:55:37 We did do a case yesterday together.
10:55:40 Would I like to see more, maybe another one, to have more,
10:55:44 to get out there or whatever?
10:55:46 Maybe.
10:55:46 It might be something we want to look into.
10:55:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Exactly.
10:55:50 Because this is complaint driven.
10:55:53 Someone out there at night looking randomly into these
10:55:56 places.
10:55:57 I mean, we are trying to say -- what I'm hearing here is
10:56:04 some of them are saying we don't have a problem, we don't
10:56:07 need to do anything.
10:56:08 That's what I'm hearing.
10:56:11 And we'll get to part A.
10:56:14 That whole thing was not about a problem.
10:56:16 That was about moving us forward.
10:56:18 But we'll get to that one.
10:56:20 So, again, that would be something that I would recommend,
10:56:28 that we have a specific person.
10:56:37 >>MARY MULHERN: She asked for an amendment to my motion.
10:56:41 And I would amend my motion to add that we get a report on
10:56:48 adding a dedicated alcohol inspector to code enforcement.
10:57:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who is next?
10:57:02 I have lost track here.
10:57:03 Mr. Suarez?
10:57:04 I'm sorry.
10:57:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I just have a question and clarification.
10:57:10 Because Mr. Miranda's statement is what kind of caused the
10:57:12 other aspect of your motion is, I think we are talking about
10:57:18 two different things.
10:57:18 Are we talking about an inspector, Mr. Miranda that used to
10:57:22 go into all the locations, or just restaurants?
10:57:24 I think we need that clarification so we know what we are
10:57:27 talking about.
10:57:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I stated was that we did audit at
10:57:30 random.
10:57:31 They may draw one a year two, a year, whatever, and they
10:57:34 would inspect, and if they find something wrong they would
10:57:36 inspect others.
10:57:38 But things have changed.
10:57:39 There was no computer system like there are now.
10:57:43 I mean, I'm not here presenting a case for the
10:57:45 administration or against the administration.
10:57:47 I'm here with the facts.
10:57:48 I still haven't heard one item that changes my vote and
10:57:53 prior votes or say we have got a problem with this location,
10:57:57 here is what's happening, and it's not getting the police
10:57:59 department has identified that they do go out.
10:58:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
10:58:04 And I guess my question is, what we used to have was someone
10:58:07 that went to all the locations on a random basis as opposed
10:58:11 to restaurants.
10:58:12 If that's the case, then, you know, I think we need --
10:58:18 obviously, that motion is a little bit different, because
10:58:21 Ms. Mulhern mentioned specifically restaurants, and I assume
10:58:24 that what you are talking about is all these locations,
10:58:27 correct?
10:58:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, no.
10:58:30 I didn't know, because I don't think I was here or wasn't
10:58:34 aware if they were doing that since I have been on council.
10:58:40 But I thought it was an auditor that was auditing the
10:58:43 receipts, the 51/49.
10:58:47 But that's what I was talking about.
10:58:48 I think if we, in addition, add a full-time inspector to
10:58:54 code enforcement, then they can look at everything.
10:58:56 They can look at the bars, the restaurants, and all of the
10:58:59 violations, not just violating the 51/49.
10:59:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But the question to your motion was the
10:59:07 restaurant portion?
10:59:08 >>MARY MULHERN: For the auditor.
10:59:09 I and I would like to hear from legal and TPD about how, you
10:59:13 know, that makes sense what chairman mirrored said, was that
10:59:19 it was a random thing perhaps, where maybe since we now have
10:59:24 a database, which are restaurants, they could --
10:59:30 >> I appreciate that.
10:59:31 Thank you, chair.
10:59:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:59:37 I'm a little puzzled by this amendment now when you state
10:59:40 that a full-time position.
10:59:42 Because if as I listen to Mrs. Coyle, she said she had a
10:59:45 person that's out there doing this, and maybe redefine that
10:59:49 position and give us more to do more of what we were
10:59:54 requesting.
10:59:55 But I don't think we can ask someone if they will make a
10:59:59 full-time inspector.
11:00:01 I mean, we can request it, but I don't think we want to mix
11:00:08 the motion up.
11:00:10 I would like to have the motion, not to this particular
11:00:13 motion that we are talking about.
11:00:15 Because you have got a staff saying you have got a person
11:00:17 that's already doing this job.
11:00:21 Did I hear correctly?
11:00:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
11:00:23 And I was a little confused by Councilwoman Capin, thought
11:00:28 you were talking about the person that tracked everything,
11:00:31 which is what LaShawn DOS does.
11:00:35 The inspector, she's a code enforcement inspector.
11:00:39 We use code enforcement and business tax code.
11:00:41 They actually go out and take pictures and then e-mail the
11:00:46 letters to the places that they randomly do, they will
11:00:51 report them as well to verify that they are closed down, and
11:00:54 we'll send the letter.
11:00:56 So Michael Williams is actually the dedicated code
11:01:01 enforcement office theory we use for alcohol.
11:01:04 He has other duties as well, but comes back over the years,
11:01:08 the enforcement level officer is what it is, and Mike
11:01:14 Williams is dedicated to alcohol.
11:01:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: So Mr. Chair, I accept the amendment to
11:01:22 the motion if that is not attached to the original motion.
11:01:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to have to have clarity on my
11:01:27 own mind here because I have a motion and a second, and the
11:01:30 second, comes with the amendment to the motion, so --
11:01:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Before we do that, because I haven't
11:01:38 spoken on it.
11:01:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
11:01:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:01:41 And I complicated it I think a little more and that's why I
11:01:44 have been consulting with our council attorney, because the
11:01:50 intricacies of Robert's Rules of Order are sometimes not
11:01:53 clear in my mind.
11:01:54 So I have cleared this up.
11:01:56 So Mr. Shelby, help me out here if I need it.
11:02:00 What I am proposing is a subsidiary motion, which to
11:02:07 postponing additional regulations placed on changing our
11:02:11 alcoholic beverage regulations.
11:02:13 We have talked about this ad infinitum.
11:02:18 I can't tell you how many hours of meetings we have had, how
11:02:21 many private meetings we have had with staff, and we come
11:02:26 back to the same place which is why I was looking at the
11:02:30 numbers that Mrs. Coyle gave us in part B.
11:02:32 I don't think -- and correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Chair, I
11:02:37 think you agree with me -- I don't think we have a huge
11:02:40 problem in the City of Tampa.
11:02:41 We have a small percentage of establishments that cause most
11:02:45 of the problems, which, you know, if you are in high school,
11:02:51 that's what's causing most of the problems.
11:02:53 If you are in any type of industry, off small employees who
11:02:56 are disgruntled employees and any situation that you have,
11:03:01 it's a small amount of people that are causing the most
11:03:04 problems.
11:03:06 In government that's why we have 67% of our budget dedicated
11:03:08 to life and safety, because those problems cause us to spend
11:03:13 the most time and the most money.
11:03:15 Than so I really think we need to put this whole discussion
11:03:21 to bed.
11:03:23 We have spent more than enough time discussing this whole
11:03:26 issue, probably close to two years or more.
11:03:32 I think this discussion started before, in 2011.
11:03:38 So that's my motion.
11:03:40 To postpone this discussion so that we don't have to spend
11:03:45 any more time talking about 10% of the establishments that
11:03:48 are causing a problem.
11:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:03:50 Now we are to our cousin, Robert's Rules of Order.
11:03:54 Only two August of '11.
11:04:00 I have a motion.
11:04:00 Do I have a second to that motion?
11:04:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I need to --
11:04:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry but I have a motion I have to
11:04:06 address.
11:04:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a motion on the floor.
11:04:09 I have two seconds to my motion.
11:04:11 I have one amendment.
11:04:12 And I have one question from one of the seconds.
11:04:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me correct this.
11:04:18 I gave the second to Mr. Reddick on a close vote with Mrs.
11:04:21 Capin.
11:04:21 Mr. Reddick now is questioning himself, or myself, on this
11:04:25 motion.
11:04:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to speak to that.
11:04:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are going to speak to that in a
11:04:29 minute but I have a motion on the floor now.
11:04:31 Do I have a second?
11:04:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, may I just inform the rest
11:04:35 of council that a motion to postpone indefinitely is a
11:04:38 subsidiary motion, so it is in order.
11:04:42 It must be seconded.
11:04:43 It does require a second.
11:04:45 It is debatable but it's not amendable and requires a
11:04:48 majority vote.
11:04:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much for clarity.
11:04:50 Defensive a second to the motion by Mrs. Month to suspend
11:04:53 this indefinitely?
11:04:58 No second?
11:05:00 We'll be here till midnight.
11:05:02 Anything else?
11:05:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm prepared to go another two years.
11:05:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Back to the original motion. Now Mr.
11:05:09 Reddick before you speak, do you drop your second on the
11:05:11 motion?
11:05:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was trying to set an amendment to the
11:05:15 motion because I think it should be a separate motion not
11:05:17 attached to the original motion those made.
11:05:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:05:23 So I would withdraw my acceptance of the amendment, and that
11:05:27 can be a separate motion.
11:05:29 And I will restate the motion that I would like to have the
11:05:35 staff report from legal and land development on amending the
11:05:44 special use permits for -- I don't know if that's S-1 or S-2
11:05:57 for restaurants selling alcoholic beverages to include some
11:06:05 kind of audit of their sales percentages.
11:06:14 So I would like to hear different options for that.
11:06:19 And that's my motion.
11:06:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I second.
11:06:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:06:22 Go back to the original motion made by Mrs. Mulhern as she
11:06:25 stated.
11:06:28 >>MARY MULHERN: For August 7th.
11:06:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And seconded by Mr. Reddick.
11:06:33 I want to say thank you to Mrs. Montelione.
11:06:38 I can't second.
11:06:39 I understand that.
11:06:43 It's not the chairman.
11:06:44 It's the honor of being chair that I don't want to reduce
11:06:48 somebody else saying, well, he did it, so I want to do it.
11:06:52 I don't want to get to that debate about I could have done a
11:06:56 lot of things, but I would rather just run the meeting and
11:06:59 be part of the meeting at some point.
11:07:01 Mrs. Capin.
11:07:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, to want to put this to rest
11:07:10 indefinitely, we should put to rest our issue on code
11:07:13 enforcement.
11:07:15 We have been talking about things for years.
11:07:17 You know, that is almost absurd, because someone wants to
11:07:22 make a case for putting this to rest.
11:07:28 Either now or in the future.
11:07:30 On their campaign.
11:07:31 And that is not acceptable.
11:07:33 What is acceptable is that we do our business here.
11:07:40 Now, I have been a small business woman since I was 21 years
11:07:44 old.
11:07:45 I was self-employed.
11:07:48 I'm not a self-employed business woman five years, ten years
11:07:52 ago.
11:07:52 I dealt with federal law, state law, local law.
11:07:58 And yet it is about paperwork.
11:07:59 But what they are doing is trying to protect the public
11:08:03 safety.
11:08:04 Now, what I'm hearing here, we don't have a problem, we
11:08:09 don't need to deal with this anymore.
11:08:11 Okay.
11:08:11 First, when we get to part A, you are going to see that that
11:08:14 was not intended to deal with a problem.
11:08:17 That was intended to extend what we already do hear.
11:08:23 Now, in 2010, when I represented district 4, and I used to
11:08:37 go there occasionally.
11:08:38 But I did walk the beat from 10 p.m. to 3:30 in the morning
11:08:48 when I was just on council maybe two months.
11:08:52 And my fellow Councilman is correct.
11:08:57 People talking, walking down the street, you hear them.
11:09:01 So that is not -- what we are talking about here is -- and,
11:09:09 you know, our chairman wanted to hear one example.
11:09:12 Hollywood knights, a resident that lived right down the
11:09:17 street from them for ten years, for ten years, complained.
11:09:23 It took us ten years to bring it here.
11:09:27 That resident moved to St. Petersburg.
11:09:31 So, yes, there's an example of what it takes to get somebody
11:09:35 to comply.
11:09:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wanted to --
11:09:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And to think all -- I have the floor.
11:09:45 You asked -- you had not heard one incident.
11:09:48 So I'm giving an example of that one incident.
11:09:53 And they came before us.
11:09:55 We did close them down for one week.
11:09:57 And they have complied.
11:09:59 But it took ten years to bring that to here.
11:10:03 And that is when we look at it, and I said, does it take ten
11:10:09 years?
11:10:10 Maybe we should put some cameras that we supervise like we
11:10:15 do with red light cameras at the corners.
11:10:18 Because that's how we catch the people running red lights.
11:10:22 And we are willing to do that and we collect money on that
11:10:24 and we are okay with that.
11:10:28 I would understand the industry wanting to get these people
11:10:34 out of their hair.
11:10:38 Because as a small business woman, the pawn shop, that said
11:10:51 they were legitimate jewelers, they caused us headaches.
11:10:56 So when you have people cheating, it costs you money.
11:11:00 It costs you money.
11:11:01 Small business has struggled every day.
11:11:04 That's what -- I was 21 until I was 55 years old.
11:11:15 My entire life I have been self-employed.
11:11:17 So when you tell me, oh, small business.
11:11:19 I understand small business.
11:11:22 And those what we are looking at, to put this to rest is
11:11:28 just very sad.
11:11:29 Trying to put this to rest indefinitely is very, very sad.
11:11:33 What I will say is that as far as dedicated code enforcement
11:11:39 person, what I would like to hear from Cathy Coyle before I
11:11:42 make my amendment is, let me ask you this.
11:11:46 You have someone.
11:11:50 It would be advantageous to have that someone dedicated to
11:11:56 this endeavor, to try and bring it in sooner than the ten
11:12:01 years?
11:12:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To have a dedicated inspector in-house,
11:12:11 yes.
11:12:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It would solve a lot of problems.
11:12:14 And that person would help to put the laws that everybody is
11:12:20 talking about on the books to work.
11:12:26 And that's what I'm saying.
11:12:27 So I would like -- my amendment is to give Cathy Coyle -- my
11:12:38 motion -- my amendment -- oh, you.
11:12:43 Voted on that one.
11:12:44 Okay.
11:12:46 Okay.
11:12:47 Yes.
11:12:48 Thank you.
11:12:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Call the question.
11:12:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You think it easy to sit here?
11:12:56 I can see the crowd.
11:13:00 And at the end I am going to -- and I want a complete report
11:13:05 on Hollywood knights if it was ten years, why it was closed,
11:13:10 and who moved to St. Pete.
11:13:13 And I have a motion by Ms. Mulhern, a second by Mr. Reddick.
11:13:18 Further discussion on the original motion that's on the
11:13:19 floor for the last two and a half hours?
11:13:22 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
11:13:25 Opposed nay.
11:13:28 Motion passes 5 to 2.
11:13:29 I said nay also.
11:13:30 >> And what date was it set forth?
11:13:33 >> August 7th.
11:13:36 All right.
11:13:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can I make my motion?
11:13:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, you can make your motion.
11:13:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:13:43 I would move that we recommend to the administration to look
11:13:53 at the budget in order to have a dedicated code enforcement
11:13:58 person dedicated to Ms. Coyle's office for the purpose of
11:14:06 enforcing what we have on the box and everyone feels is
11:14:10 adequate.
11:14:10 >> Second.
11:14:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:14:14 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:14:15 Discussion by council members?
11:14:21 I am going to have to speak on that.
11:14:23 Mr. Cohen is the chair.
11:14:24 Let me just say this.
11:14:26 The prudence of the officer that's still here and Mrs.
11:14:33 Coyle's statements if I heard them correct were this, we
11:14:35 have that person that works in code enforcement.
11:14:39 I do the internal work, that person does the external work.
11:14:45 You named an individual by the name of Williams, I believe
11:14:47 it was.
11:14:48 And please come forward.
11:14:50 I have got to make sure that I understood.
11:14:52 Because it's been some time.
11:14:53 And that individual still works at code enforcement.
11:14:56 Am I correct?
11:14:57 And that individual is still doing the same thing as before,
11:15:02 correct?
11:15:02 And you are doing the same thing you were doing before.
11:15:04 And you are doing the internal work and he's doing the
11:15:06 external work, the location --
11:15:10 >> I do it as well sometimes.
11:15:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I want to ask you.
11:15:14 >>MARY MULHERN: What the motion is asking for or
11:15:38 recommending is a dedicated code enforcement person that
11:15:40 only does alcohol.
11:15:42 Do we have a full-time dedicated person, or this Williams
11:15:45 person that you mentioned, is that all they do?
11:15:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Actually, as mentioned before, he does
11:15:51 have other duties, but --
11:15:59 >>MARY MULHERN: So I amend the motion which I had seconded
11:16:01 to be a dedicated full-time code enforcement person to work
11:16:07 on alcohol permits inspections.
11:16:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
11:16:13 >>HARRY COHEN: I really would have to echo what Mr. Reddick
11:16:16 said earlier.
11:16:17 Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, without
11:16:20 the merits, I don't think under our charter that we can do
11:16:24 this.
11:16:25 I think this is --
11:16:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It's a recommendation.
11:16:31 A recommendation to administration.
11:16:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Coyle.
11:16:51 Let me ask you this.
11:16:52 Do you really need a full-time person?
11:16:54 Do you have five, six of these a day that you have to go
11:16:57 check?
11:16:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, not every day.
11:17:00 >> So you want a full-time person to do what, Mrs. Coyle?
11:17:03 Not that you are asking but what am I going to do with that
11:17:06 full time person?
11:17:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I would have to think about that.
11:17:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I am going to say.
11:17:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Coyle, I'm glad you didn't sit
11:17:16 down.
11:17:18 We are going to have the budget presented by the mayor, you
11:17:19 know, sometime soon, so you have already gone through the
11:17:22 exercise.
11:17:23 Have you been asked to reduce your budget expenses this
11:17:25 year?
11:17:27 Well, for 13-14.
11:17:28 You have?
11:17:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We all were.
11:17:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Everyone was.
11:17:33 And from I understand with speaking with others in your
11:17:36 department there is still a request to add staff to your
11:17:38 department.
11:17:41 In spite of being asked to cut the expenses of your
11:17:44 department, it was still because of the amount of permitting
11:17:47 we have been seeing coming in and rezoning applications,
11:17:53 hasn't made to the our desk yet, but you are seeing an
11:17:56 increase based upon additional employees requested.
11:17:59 So I just want to point out that we still are operating at a
11:18:04 deficit position in this city.
11:18:05 We are still digging into our reserves to cover a gap in our
11:18:10 budget.
11:18:10 And there are so many issues that need attention in this
11:18:15 city.
11:18:17 I just want everybody to be cognizant that your budget has
11:18:20 been asked to be reduced and you have -- somewhere in your
11:18:25 department, additional employees have been asked.
11:18:29 Thank you.
11:18:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin.
11:18:33 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:18:33 First of all -- (off microphone) -- from alcohol, beverage
11:18:46 bars and lounges.
11:18:47 But otherwise what she's looking at is restaurants.
11:18:52 That's what they are doing, is looking at restaurant
11:18:54 compliance.
11:18:56 We are talking apples and oranges here.
11:18:59 We are trying to mix it up.
11:19:02 And I'm trying to separate it.
11:19:06 And so that is why I feel that we need to have that go
11:19:14 forward.
11:19:15 And another thing.
11:19:22 We now have administrative permits for alcoholic permits
11:19:27 that do not come to City Council, do not come to City
11:19:29 Council.
11:19:32 So, yes, they have changed.
11:19:37 And actually, the idea of putting -- anyone who has an
11:19:45 issue, go talk to the administration, not to City Council.
11:19:47 And that would be perfect for some people, but not for me.
11:19:58 Be thank you.
11:20:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
11:20:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
11:20:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You called for the question.
11:20:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: I mean, I -- I will yield to you and then
11:20:21 call for the question, sir.
11:20:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I appreciate that and I will try to make it
11:20:24 as brief as possible.
11:20:26 Ms. Coyle, the text amendment that we had already voted on
11:20:30 that is part of the cycle concerning the insurance audit
11:20:35 papers that will have to be filed with the city, when is
11:20:40 that text amendment going to be available or done so that we
11:20:43 can start using it?
11:20:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I changed the workshop to discuss it and
11:20:48 if you like the amendment you will transmit to Planning
11:20:50 Commission for recommendation, although the Planning
11:20:53 Commission is --
11:20:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I mean, when we voted originally, I thought
11:20:59 it was to send it to the Planning Commission originally.
11:21:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, that was directing it to be put into
11:21:04 the cycle.
11:21:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So now come before us in order to send to
11:21:09 the Planning Commission.
11:21:09 The process after that is what?
11:21:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: First and second reading, the ordinance
11:21:14 prepared.
11:21:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So we are looking at having this in place
11:21:17 probably when?
11:21:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The Planning Commission will actually
11:21:22 want to see it so I will get that in writing.
11:21:23 But if it does go forward to Planning Commission you will
11:21:26 see in the August, and you will adopt it the end of August,
11:21:29 beginning of September.
11:21:30 If they reject it and don't want to see it more practice
11:21:34 oriented, then July bring it back.
11:21:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The reason I'm asking is because I voted on
11:21:41 Ms. Mulhern's first motion concerning going forward.
11:21:46 We are looking at inspections, and get a report back from
11:21:49 the administration -- excuse me, from legal and Ms. Coyle,
11:21:56 regarding what that would entail.
11:21:57 I believe -- and we have not done the one thing that we
11:22:01 talked about before concerning restaurants.
11:22:04 I don't want to necessarily stop the process in terms of get
11:22:11 doing the audit.
11:22:12 I am not supporting this particular amendment as a
11:22:14 recommendation until we get back what we are doing, what we
11:22:16 started doing already to begin with.
11:22:18 I believe -- and I know that not everyone agrees with me,
11:22:22 and I think part of the reason that is in terms of how this
11:22:30 works when it comes to what restaurant owners do when they
11:22:34 are faced with not having insurance for their business.
11:22:42 It is an absolute apocalypse for them because they cannot
11:22:46 operate on any level.
11:22:47 It makes it almost impossible for them to do business.
11:22:49 They lose money almost immediately.
11:22:51 I want to see that process started.
11:22:53 I don't want to start the other process as far as going in.
11:22:58 I think there could be a way that we dovetail those two to
11:23:01 put it forward.
11:23:02 I am not going to support this particular amendment on the
11:23:04 recommendation but I wanted to make sure that we are still
11:23:06 in the same process so that we can get an audit done on
11:23:10 those restaurants, those restaurants, to make sure that they
11:23:14 are complying in terms of what they are.
11:23:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the auditor to the committee was a
11:23:25 great asset.
11:23:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I call for the question.
11:23:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a remainder for council that's
11:23:32 important to remember for your order of doing business.
11:23:35 When someone calls the question, it does require a second.
11:23:38 It needs to be a vote on the motion to call the question.
11:23:41 There's no debate on that motion.
11:23:42 And then it brings the motion on the table for immediate
11:23:44 vote.
11:23:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Defensive a second to Mr. Reddick?
11:23:48 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:23:50 We will vote first on the call the question.
11:23:55 Please signify by saying aye.
11:23:57 Opposed nay.
11:23:57 Motion passes unanimously.
11:23:59 Now, the question is --
11:24:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The original motion without debate.
11:24:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only motion made by Mrs. Capin,
11:24:08 seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:24:09 Do you want to restate that or go by memory?
11:24:12 We can go by memory.
11:24:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's up to the clerk.
11:24:17 Council or the clerk.
11:24:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think this T clerk would rather -- I
11:24:21 can tell by the eyesight location that I would be dead.
11:24:28 So I don't want to die today.
11:24:29 I will go back to Mrs. Capin for the motion, and the second.
11:24:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The motion is to recommend to the
11:24:37 administration in the budget to make this T person that is
11:24:43 doing this job now a permanent position within Ms. Coyle's
11:24:52 purview.
11:24:54 Okay.
11:24:56 Which is different from the restaurants because that's being
11:24:59 audited.
11:25:00 This is everything.
11:25:00 This would pertain to all alcoholic beverage permitting.
11:25:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:25:07 I have a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:25:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Dedicated full time.
11:25:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that part of the original motion?
11:25:17 I don't know.
11:25:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Go ahead.
11:25:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I said that --
11:25:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, debate at this
11:25:27 point is out of order.
11:25:28 What's appropriate would be for the clerk to reread the
11:25:31 motion based on the minutes.
11:25:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I wanted was the person who made the
11:25:35 motion whether it's correct or not with the one on one side
11:25:39 or the other side.
11:25:40 Tiff intent of that person.
11:25:41 And I agree with that person.
11:25:42 She has the right to speak to the motion, whether it has one
11:25:45 word missing is not going to change the intent of the
11:25:47 motion.
11:25:48 And the intent of the motion was really to get a full-time
11:25:50 employee, and she can state the rest.
11:25:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Do you want me to state it again?
11:25:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make sure --
11:26:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, okay.
11:26:00 The motion is to recommend to the administration to budget
11:26:03 for the person that is in Mrs. Coyle's office, inspector, to
11:26:08 be a full-time position for, in general, alcoholic beverage
11:26:16 permitting.
11:26:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, second by
11:26:21 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:26:22 Any further discussion?
11:26:22 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
11:26:27 Opposed nay.
11:26:29 Motion -- let do voice vote because she didn't hear it all.
11:26:37 Mr. Suarez.
11:26:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
11:26:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:26:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
11:26:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:26:43 >>HARRY COHEN: No.
11:26:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
11:26:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm no.
11:26:47 So it's 5 to 2.
11:26:50 Okay.
11:26:50 Any other motions on this B?
11:26:53 Thank you all very much.
11:26:55 On B?
11:26:56 Yes, sir, Mr. Cohen.
11:26:57 >>HARRY COHEN: I think I'll wait.
11:27:00 [ Laughter ]
11:27:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On A.
11:27:02 We go to A.
11:27:04 A.
11:27:05 Yes, ma'am.
11:27:05 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:27:08 I'm here on part A.
11:27:12 It is on the agenda to discuss regulation of the sale of
11:27:14 alcoholic beverages.
11:27:15 It was previously scheduled on December 5th and also
11:27:18 discussed on February 6th.
11:27:20 City Council had made a motion and asked legal department to
11:27:23 come back with some ordinances that would address the hours
11:27:26 of operation, people allowed to sell alcoholic beverages and
11:27:31 provide for a permit to allow people to extend those hours.
11:27:35 Currently on your books, the hours for the sale of alcoholic
11:27:38 beverages are 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. except for Sunday where it's
11:27:42 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
11:27:44 I propose we change to chapter 14 which regulates the hours
11:27:47 which would change it from on premise couples only
11:27:52 establishments to midnight, and provide for an allowance
11:27:58 till 3 a.m. in those establishments, if they receive an
11:28:01 extended hours permit.
11:28:02 The extended hours permit would create in chapter 6, I have
11:28:06 repeated before, I am here to go into great detail if you
11:28:11 would like me to.
11:28:12 I would just like to point out to City Council that it was
11:28:14 provided to you based upon the motion from City Council and
11:28:17 the direction that you have provided.
11:28:19 There were a number of issues that were still open for
11:28:22 discussion, and it was written for all on premises
11:28:28 consumption.
11:28:28 It can be further limited.
11:28:30 There was discussion about hotels, and there could be
11:28:35 further discussion on how businesses that relate violations
11:28:39 and are in no way culpable for those violations because they
11:28:43 were closed.
11:28:44 That's not yet been dealt with.
11:28:45 And what the violations are.
11:28:49 Based upon the motion that was provided, what was put in the
11:28:51 ordinance that was presented to you, what violations as well
11:28:56 as more serious crimes, rapes, murder, drug charges, and
11:29:02 that is the kind of violations that can have somebody
11:29:05 revoked or extended for the be permit.
11:29:08 Again, I provided additional details if you would like
11:29:11 additional detail, I can do that.
11:29:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are those violations that you just stated
11:29:15 already part that you could close them down for something
11:29:18 now?
11:29:19 >>REBECCA KERT: No, they are not.
11:29:20 What you have currently on your books for your alcoholic
11:29:25 beverage special use permit which runs with the land use,
11:29:28 you have a revocation and suspension permit.
11:29:30 But it's limited what you can revoke it for because it's a
11:29:34 land use permit.
11:29:35 It can only be revoked or suspended for things that are tied
11:29:38 to what that permit is.
11:29:39 That is the sale of alcoholic beverages, or the conditions
11:29:41 that are directly related to the permit.
11:29:44 So, for example, if somebody is required to sell 51/49 and
11:29:50 report on that, and something they can be revoked or
11:29:54 suspended for, if they have violations such as the sale of
11:29:58 alcohol, it's something that could be suspended or revoked
11:30:02 for.
11:30:02 However, because murder is not directly tied to the sale of
11:30:05 alcoholic beverages, if there's a murder or several murders,
11:30:09 or potentially several drug deals on the establishment, it
11:30:12 would not be directly related to the sale of alcohol you can
11:30:15 beverages and it wouldn't be appropriate to take away the
11:30:17 land use aspect of it.
11:30:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:30:25 Mr. Reddick.
11:30:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:30:27 Let me ask you a question pertaining to hours of operations.
11:30:32 How would this affect American Legion post, for example?
11:30:36 Would they have to stop selling at 12 and apply for a late
11:30:41 anytime permit?
11:30:43 >>REBECCA KERT: The way the ordinance is drafted is it
11:30:45 applies to all on premises consumptions, unless you have
11:30:49 special conditions already in your use permit.
11:30:51 So potentially it could.
11:30:53 But at the same time it does provide for a process for the
11:30:56 American Legion post or someone else that is required to
11:31:00 post at midnight to come in and get a permit.
11:31:03 And that permit would be automatically granted the first
11:31:05 time around as long as you apply for it and pay a fee which
11:31:10 is proposed to be, I believe you heard, $50, and so the it
11:31:17 would be an annual permit.
11:31:18 It could be denied the second time if, for example, you were
11:31:21 suspended, or you were revoked, or you had certain other
11:31:25 criteria. But the first time you would automatically get
11:31:27 it.
11:31:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: So are there any exemptions to any of
11:31:33 these type of organizations?
11:31:36 Because I think in Ybor City you have some private clubs
11:31:40 over there, that have events, and if they are having a
11:31:44 party, as long as it's on-site premises, organizations, they
11:31:55 are allowed to stay open past 12, from my understanding what
11:31:58 I am hearing you.
11:32:00 Wouldn't the American Legion post be exempt from this type
11:32:03 of law?
11:32:05 Can.
11:32:05 >>REBECCA KERT: I am not aware of anything that would
11:32:07 automatically exempt them the way it's written.
11:32:09 If they have some awareness of some type of law that I am
11:32:12 not aware of.
11:32:13 But it's my understanding of it they have to come in and get
11:32:16 a permit to sell alcohol.
11:32:19 If I am incorrect on that, certainly I am willing to concede
11:32:22 the point.
11:32:22 But it's my understanding at this point the only --
11:32:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Ms. Coyle?
11:32:37 >>REBECCA KERT: I know she hasn't gotten very far because
11:32:39 she has another item.
11:32:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: The people who operate the American Legion
11:32:44 post, the clubs, the facilities, do they have to apply for
11:32:49 alcohol permits in order to have that establishment open?
11:32:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, if they came in and applied after
11:32:55 1945, yes.
11:33:03 With the state, and with the city as well.
11:33:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: So that's within city limits?
11:33:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, sir.
11:33:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: So in essence they have to meet this.
11:33:13 If this passes, they have to meet this requirement?
11:33:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That is my understanding.
11:33:19 I am not aware of any exemptions.
11:33:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
11:33:23 Well, I have a concern about that, because I have an
11:33:29 additional concern about some of these private clubs.
11:33:35 Sometimes they use the facilities for fund-raisers, and now
11:33:39 you are going to put these regulations on them, and I'm
11:33:43 pretty sure, you will probably have every American Legion
11:33:49 member down here and sitting in chambers right now that's
11:33:53 aware of.
11:33:53 This so my position, I didn't support it before and I am not
11:33:57 going to support it today.
11:33:58 I just want to go on record.
11:34:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just a remainder that everyone who didn't
11:34:04 move forward with a majority vote, it was not one person
11:34:07 that brings this forward.
11:34:08 And it is a draft.
11:34:11 And it was a draft.
11:34:12 And here is the thing.
11:34:17 And with that draft, it can be have whatever exceptions.
11:34:22 It is like an infant baby to look at.
11:34:25 But it was never, ever looked at.
11:34:27 And as far as I can see, it will never be looked at.
11:34:33 And that's too bad.
11:34:40 And, you know, when you talk about going to need a permit
11:34:43 for a special event, no.
11:34:45 If they have the permit, a function, however they functioned
11:34:49 before.
11:34:49 And if they have special parties, and it permitted, that's
11:34:53 what they do.
11:34:55 They don't need the special permit to have a party.
11:34:58 Not the American Legion.
11:34:59 Not anyone else.
11:35:02 But it was a way of being able for $50, is what they are
11:35:06 talking about now -- I didn't not know that amount before --
11:35:10 to start will go at this seriously, and hopefully, the
11:35:19 industry would weigh in.
11:35:20 And again I am very, very sorry that we do not have that
11:35:23 task force, because that must have gotten a half dozen
11:35:26 e-mails from the industry, from attorneys, from
11:35:30 stakeholders, from neighbors, that when they heard it, I
11:35:34 want to serve on that task force.
11:35:36 But it did not come to fruition.
11:35:39 So let me have just a moment here.
11:35:49 I know that this is something that everyone want to -- or
11:35:52 not everyone.
11:35:53 I am not going to speak for my colleagues.
11:35:55 One has spoken.
11:35:55 The others.
11:35:56 Yet.
11:35:58 I would like to make a motion at the end of the discussion,
11:36:02 and I'll leave it at that and I'll listen to what my
11:36:05 colleagues have to say.
11:36:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
11:36:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
11:36:08 I have to quickly double back into the first part of our
11:36:13 conversation, and I promise not to reopen the entire matter
11:36:17 again.
11:36:18 But there were statements made in here today about whether
11:36:23 or not we have a problem.
11:36:25 And I just want to say that the reason I didn't second what
11:36:32 Councilwoman Montelione suggested earlier is because I can't
11:36:37 speak for my colleagues' district, those of us that
11:36:40 represent single-member district, but in my district, we do
11:36:44 have a problem, and it exists on Howard Avenue, and it has
11:36:48 proved very, very difficult to deal with over a period of
11:36:52 years.
11:36:52 And the reason that I am in favor of keeping this
11:36:57 conversation going is because until we make some more
11:37:01 progress, if not solving the problem, at least dealing with
11:37:07 it in ways that we can, I want to keep having the
11:37:10 discussions.
11:37:11 I think that's the only way that we are ultimately going to
11:37:13 get where we need to go.
11:37:18 In terms of this particular item, I originally thought this
11:37:26 was an excellent concept.
11:37:27 And where I got tripped up and where I became concerned was
11:37:30 that I ultimately feel that it places too much of a burden
11:37:34 on existing businesses, many of which have not oh
11:37:38 demonstrated that they have any problem following the rules
11:37:40 in the city.
11:37:41 I think that the statistics that we were given today, while
11:37:45 not a complete survey, show that there are a large number of
11:37:50 establishments that are complying and that are following the
11:37:56 rules.
11:37:56 I just think that the discussion of this late night permit
11:38:00 has brought forth a larger issue.
11:38:02 And I do hope that this piece of the discussion remains
11:38:05 alive.
11:38:07 I do not think we can continue to move forward, zoning
11:38:14 alcohol with the land.
11:38:15 I think ultimately we have got to change the way we do
11:38:18 business on a go-forward basis.
11:38:21 And in concept of making those changes within the business
11:38:27 regulation field rather than within the land use field is
11:38:32 something that I think has a lot of merit.
11:38:34 And I want to go back and say again, I think to make it
11:38:40 clean, to make sure we are not embroiled in litigation for
11:38:42 the next decade, it seems to be me that the only way to do
11:38:46 it is on a go forward basis.
11:38:48 But that is the discussion that I do think we need to have.
11:38:51 Because if at a certain point in time we change the way we
11:38:56 do our permitting and make it a business regulation instead
11:38:58 of a land use regulation, at least on those establishments
11:39:03 that aren't grandfathered in, we will have an ability to
11:39:05 move quicker and take more decisive action than we can with
11:39:10 these things that run with the land.
11:39:11 The biggest problem with the running with the land is that
11:39:14 the business changes and the rules don't change, it just
11:39:19 keeps circling over from one owner to another.
11:39:22 And a good intentioned good actor can sell to be another
11:39:26 good intentioned good actor who sells to a not God
11:39:29 intentioned bad actor, and, you know, we are five years away
11:39:33 from City Council's original decision, and we end up with a
11:39:36 problem.
11:39:36 So I don't think that this conversation should end.
11:39:46 But if you sat in my office and received the number of phone
11:39:50 calls that we get, you know, it's related in many different
11:39:56 ways to this problem whether it's noise, traffic, parking,
11:39:59 unruly behavior, whatever it is.
11:40:02 To me, changing the way we do business going forward, I
11:40:09 think if ten years from now we are still attaching these
11:40:13 permits to the land, we are going to regret it.
11:40:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:40:17 Before I go -- and I have Mrs. Montelione.
11:40:19 I would like to have the legal department answer that
11:40:23 statement that Mr. Cohen made.
11:40:25 Can you legally tie it to the business without the land
11:40:27 currently, without a legislative approval?
11:40:30 >>REBECCA KERT: Currently we cannot regulate the business
11:40:34 portion of alcoholic beverages portion.
11:40:38 We can regulate businesses, we talked about nightclubs, pain
11:40:42 management clinics, we do for some reason skating rinks.
11:40:47 We regulate certain types of businesses.
11:40:49 But the state has told us, as far as your question is
11:40:53 directly related to whether or not we as a city can regulate
11:40:58 the business of alcoholic beverages, we specifically cannot.
11:41:01 The legislature has expressly said we cannot.
11:41:03 >>HARRY COHEN: That wasn't exactly what I was suggesting.
11:41:08 What I was suggesting was that the permit process for
11:41:11 alcohol note be a part of our land use code.
11:41:16 Because when it becomes part of our land use code, we all
11:41:19 know we deal with this all the time.
11:41:22 It runs with the land.
11:41:23 Taking it away with eminent domain proceedings, these
11:41:27 standard are extremely high. If we put it in a different
11:41:30 chapter, if we regulate it somewhere else, doesn't it
11:41:35 necessarily change the due process elements that are
11:41:39 involved in regulating it?
11:41:41 >>REBECCA KERT: You are correct in that when we grant the
11:41:44 land use permit or a zoning, there are certain entitlements
11:41:48 that go with that.
11:41:49 It goes with the land.
11:41:50 It's not annually renewable.
11:41:52 You don't need to take a fresh look at it every year to see
11:41:55 whether or not -- that is there forever until you take it
11:41:57 away.
11:41:58 And as you said, there's a lot of due process involved in
11:42:02 taking it away.
11:42:04 When you regulate a business, there are still due process
11:42:08 regulations.
11:42:09 You can't arbitrarily and capriciously take anyone's
11:42:12 business license that you granted them away.
11:42:14 However, it can be annual.
11:42:16 The criteria can change upon which you review it.
11:42:18 It is not entitlement.
11:42:19 If you have an expectation to forever.
11:42:22 But I do say as far as looking at the -- and I know this
11:42:28 isn't what you said but for everyone listening, the question
11:42:33 of whether or not we can pick alcoholic beverages, and
11:42:36 regulate it as a license or business, we may not.
11:42:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I was getting at.
11:42:45 And I agree with you wholeheartedly.
11:42:48 I have said it before in the past.
11:42:50 I agree with you.
11:42:51 But it's to have to be a legislative thing for the whole
11:42:56 state.
11:42:56 >>HARRY COHEN: I think there is a window of opportunity in
11:43:00 her statement.
11:43:00 But he can we can have that discussion on a business
11:43:03 different.
11:43:03 But I believe there is a window of opportunity in that
11:43:06 statement.
11:43:07 It depends on exactly how you couch what it is that you are
11:43:11 trying to regulate.
11:43:13 She's shaking her head yes, just for the record, are for
11:43:16 people watching.
11:43:17 [ Laughter ]
11:43:17 And so that's all I have to say on the subject at the
11:43:21 moment.
11:43:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:43:22 Mrs. Montelione.
11:43:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm not sure we want to wait for a
11:43:26 different day.
11:43:26 We are on the subject and I'm ready to be here till midnight
11:43:30 as Chairman Miranda has suggested, because this has been a
11:43:35 painful and long process and I would like to know what that
11:43:38 window of opportunity is, Mrs. Kert.
11:43:40 While she's coming to the podium, I also want to say that,
11:43:43 you know, you talked about the single member district, and
11:43:46 not speaking for everyone, I'm a single-member district.
11:43:52 I am not in the area that has a preponderance of these clubs
11:43:56 or even a concentrated area, but land areawise, it's a big
11:44:02 section of the City of Tampa that lies within the boundaries
11:44:05 of my district, and, you know, it's not Howard Avenue, it's
11:44:10 not Seminole Heights, but there are very popular clubs
11:44:14 within my district.
11:44:14 Some of them bad actors that have been shut down, some of
11:44:18 them that have been very investigated, and now that they
11:44:21 have been threatened they have changed their ways.
11:44:23 One on Fowler Avenue, and one on Busch Boulevard.
11:44:26 These are large venue night clubs.
11:44:29 They are not the small mom and pop type of establishments.
11:44:33 But some of the things you brought up, Mr. Cohen,
11:44:35 pedestrians are crossing the street.
11:44:39 I, unlike you, have been out both in Seminole Heights at
11:44:43 some of the restaurants there late at night, even had dinner
11:44:48 until 11 p.m. and not getting home till after 2.
11:44:52 And the pedestrian crossing at Seminole Heights on Florida
11:44:58 Avenue, because of some of the parking situations, another
11:45:03 concern at South Howard and Seminole Heights because of the
11:45:06 noise which we don't really want to delve into, but all of
11:45:09 those things aren't necessarily tied to one particular
11:45:14 establishment.
11:45:14 When you have a concentration of establishments in an area,
11:45:18 these people can be coming from one of many establishments,
11:45:22 or they can be coming from a hotel.
11:45:24 We have got the new epicurean down the street, the South
11:45:28 Howard area.
11:45:29 So who knows where people are consuming their beverages and
11:45:34 then walking down the street, perhaps one part of SoHo and
11:45:39 they are walking back to the hotel.
11:45:42 How do you pinpoint which establishment is responsible for
11:45:47 causing the problem?
11:45:48 So I think all of those things, we have other ways of
11:45:52 regulating them.
11:45:53 And on the books right now, I mean, you break the law, Jay
11:45:58 walking, technically a law on the books, but there's an
11:46:08 element of pedestrian safety that we can put in to address
11:46:13 that issue.
11:46:13 Public drunkenness, causing a nuisance.
11:46:16 All those things we have laws for.
11:46:17 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:46:23 Than let me go back to you somewhat directly as I can
11:46:31 answering the question which you asked, which is to provide
11:46:33 a little more detail on what Mr. Cohen was saying.
11:46:40 We in the City of Tampa and have for many decades regulated
11:46:43 alcohol strictly from a land use component.
11:46:46 And through that component, we have gotten into a number of
11:46:49 operational conditions.
11:46:51 Some of them I hope all are doing with alcoholic beverages,
11:46:57 some of them dealing with somewhat ancillary, when you do
11:47:02 that, you have established rules for that establishment that
11:47:07 go on potentially forever.
11:47:10 So you have set out how you feel it's appropriate for them
11:47:13 to operate in 1965, and in 1930, or 2030, we may have a
11:47:20 different idea.
11:47:21 It may be more lenient.
11:47:22 It may be less lenient.
11:47:24 I have had these discussions with all of you.
11:47:26 And there may or may not be contested but sometimes there's
11:47:30 the feeling throws a feeling that we are too strict.
11:47:33 When you tie it toe your land use permit, that is tied to
11:47:37 the permit.
11:47:38 And that stays even if you make other regulations that are
11:47:43 more lenient or more strict.
11:47:44 And that is the concern that you have.
11:47:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to insert here, though, is it the
11:47:50 business owner who feels the regulations we set
11:47:52 hypothetically in 1930 are too strict, they are welcome to
11:47:55 come back in and amend their permit.
11:47:58 They can amend --
11:48:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Not their permit.
11:48:02 The land use.
11:48:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The property owner can come back in.
11:48:07 >>REBECCA KERT: They have the opportunity to go top that
11:48:09 establishment that has that criteria. The property owner
11:48:11 has the opportunity to come back in, pay the fee, and see if
11:48:15 City Council is willing to --
11:48:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right, in a commercial operation, tenant
11:48:22 and landlord work together.
11:48:25 If they want to, they can come here and they can ask for a
11:48:29 revision to their permit.
11:48:32 Yes, they can.
11:48:32 So that would be a business decision.
11:48:34 And they have the prerogative to do that.
11:48:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
11:48:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:48:43 So now the window.
11:48:43 >>REBECCA KERT: That get to the merits, that statement is
11:48:49 correct.
11:48:50 So one of the things that without going into great detail,
11:48:54 but a number of other discussions going on simultaneously,
11:48:57 but we had discussions about looking at business operating
11:49:01 permits.
11:49:01 And what we can do to regulate the underlying business as
11:49:05 opposed to necessarily focus on alcohol.
11:49:08 And we could come back and do that at a different time.
11:49:12 I can't tell you right now exactly what we would be able to
11:49:15 regulate with restaurants, but each individual topic we need
11:49:19 to regulate to see what the state has already granted.
11:49:22 But we have already talked about night clubs.
11:49:24 There are different avenues to do that.
11:49:28 Some of the things that we heard people talk about are --
11:49:34 there's been about two years of discussions about problems.
11:49:36 Some of them are directly tied to alcohol.
11:49:37 Some of them have to underage drink.
11:49:40 Some of them have top do not so much about alcohol, although
11:49:43 you could say they may be murders but not something we can
11:49:49 do with your alcohol permit.
11:49:51 There may be some things such as restaurants, maybe things
11:49:53 that we cannot deal with quite as well through the ones that
11:49:56 have already been permitted for those that operated
11:49:59 restaurants during the day meet their 51/49 but look more
11:50:03 like bars at night.
11:50:04 Jay walking may have something to do with alcohol but it's
11:50:07 not something that we can deal with in the special use
11:50:10 permit.
11:50:10 There are a number of different areas and it may take a
11:50:16 number of different approaches.
11:50:17 Let me say this, whatever you do, there is not one solution
11:50:21 that's going to address all of the issues that City Council
11:50:24 has been raising for two years.
11:50:26 All of them -- any of them may address some of them, but
11:50:31 there isn't one that is going to address all of them.
11:50:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So what business operating permit that
11:50:38 we have been discussing is not going to solve the problem
11:50:39 that we are seeing in some of the neighborhoods such as SoHo
11:50:43 or in possibly Seminole Heights, which was brought up
11:50:49 earlier.
11:50:49 So we are looking at a combination, enforcing the
11:50:53 regulations we already have is a good step, and coming up,
11:50:58 working with what we have, the purview to do.
11:51:02 Because as chair Miranda pointed out, as you pointed out,
11:51:06 the state has specifically told us what we can't do in
11:51:09 regard to alcohol beverage regulation.
11:51:13 So, you know, it really pains me that we are spending so
11:51:18 much discussion and hanging our hat on one possible
11:51:21 solution, where that's not the case.
11:51:24 We have to look at these individual elements, and a
11:51:28 one-business operating permit is not going to address all
11:51:31 these different elements.
11:51:32 And I also saw or read something recently -- I can't
11:51:37 remember the publication that I read in the -- but there is
11:51:39 congressional discussion about how states regulate and
11:51:45 license businesses.
11:51:46 And I'm sure you are familiar with that discussion that's
11:51:49 being held in Congress right now, because, you know, a
11:51:58 staggering number of independent licenses that one needs to
11:52:02 operate in a particular state.
11:52:04 The State of Florida, we regulate at the state level a
11:52:08 number of businesses, and you have to have a license to
11:52:11 practice that particular profession.
11:52:14 And Congress is saying, hey, that's way too much.
11:52:19 You have got to be in the weeds with some of these business
11:52:23 regulations and licensing regulations.
11:52:25 So I'm for independent solutions, you know, pedestrian
11:52:29 safety has been my number one usual you from day one,
11:52:34 because before I was sitting here, doing something about
11:52:38 stopping people from walking into the middle of the street
11:52:40 whale there's moving traffic, when you are alcohol-impaired,
11:52:45 gets worse.
11:52:47 There are certain things we can do to work with the Florida
11:52:49 Department of Transportation, our own transportation
11:52:53 department, and engineering to try engineering enforcement,
11:52:59 and can't remember the other one, the three E's, education,
11:53:07 to try and curb that problem.
11:53:08 The noise usual you is going to work itself out, it seems in
11:53:12 court, so that's two of the three that have become problems.
11:53:16 And traffic and parking is another element of it that, you
11:53:21 know, will be separate.
11:53:22 But I'm all for fixing those particular issues.
11:53:25 But there isn't one business operating permit that's going
11:53:28 to solve all of them.
11:53:29 Thank you.
11:53:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:53:31 And before I go to Mr. Suarez, I have ten minutes before
11:53:34 noon.
11:53:34 I am never going to finish the next four that I have.
11:53:36 So all likely we'll recess at unanimous and come back at
11:53:41 1:30.
11:53:42 Mr. Suarez.
11:53:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mrs. Kert, I don't know why you keep sitting
11:53:46 down so far away.
11:53:48 [ Laughter ]
11:53:48 You know we are going to ask you a lot of questions.
11:53:52 First of all, I would like to thank Mr. Cohen.
11:53:54 He typically is very clear eyed and very succinct in terms
11:53:59 of what he's saying as to what the issue is.
11:54:02 I think because of you represent that district, you do have
11:54:06 an inordinate of calls and problems, we've been that
11:54:09 particular section of town.
11:54:12 We talked about this many times, Mrs. Kert, which is -- and
11:54:15 this is privately that we talked about in addition to some
11:54:18 of the publicly -- which is, I have always believed that
11:54:24 land use has mixed in, and you gave a very short and very
11:54:30 good history of the way land use has kind of grabbed in a
11:54:32 lot of other things, parking, and, you know, time that the
11:54:38 business is open.
11:54:40 There's a lot of things that are in there that are not
11:54:42 specifically land use in my mind.
11:54:44 I think that land use means one thing versus some of the
11:54:47 business use.
11:54:48 I know that the legislature has over the course of the
11:54:52 number of years put restrictions on what cities and counties
11:54:56 can do concerning issues and some on the things.
11:55:01 There are some things we can't do.
11:55:02 I think Mr. Cohen said it correctly, where there is some
11:55:05 pieces of this that we can regulate as a business use.
11:55:09 I have always believed that because we are growing as an
11:55:13 urban area that parking should be one of those things and to
11:55:18 business use and not necessarily land use.
11:55:20 Because the more urban we get the less number of parking
11:55:22 spaces we have, the more that they should be able to show us
11:55:26 that they have some parking available for their own business
11:55:28 outside of the way that we do it now.
11:55:35 Mrs. Coyle and some of the folks may not like that.
11:55:37 Some other people outside of this room may or may not like
11:55:40 it.
11:55:40 I don't know. But there is a lot of things that go directly
11:55:43 with what we do in terms of regulating businesses that get
11:55:48 too tied up into land use.
11:55:50 Having said all of that, what can we regulate as a business
11:55:55 use when we are talking about any kind of business, based on
11:55:59 what the legislature has said it can and cannot do?
11:56:03 Specifically when it comes to bars, restaurant and those
11:56:05 types of entertainment venues?
11:56:07 >>REBECCA KERT: It's going to depend in some part on what
11:56:11 exactly the type of use is.
11:56:13 For example, some of them, in which case anything that is a
11:56:18 reasonable use for police power you can probably regulate.
11:56:23 Powers at the restaurant may be preempted on certain issues
11:56:26 that go within what has already been licensed.
11:56:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me just stop you there.
11:56:32 We know in terms of licensure, permitting, there are certain
11:56:35 things that we do not have permission to regulate.
11:56:39 I mean, we do not do lying licenses and that's one of the
11:56:43 biggest things that we get confused with from some members
11:56:46 of the public that we don't give them a license to sell
11:56:53 alcohol.
11:56:54 We give them permit on the land use to sell alcohol on that
11:56:58 location.
11:56:58 It's a little different.
11:56:59 I think because land use is running with the land, we need
11:57:04 to find ways in which that we can regulate it smarter, not
11:57:09 necessarily put more regulations on it, because I think the
11:57:12 more we look at a business use permit on some of the things
11:57:14 that we discuss, ad infinitum during land use hearings, I
11:57:19 think business owners, new business owners -- and I do agree
11:57:23 with Mr. Cohen that that go forward, in my mind, that the
11:57:28 more we do that talks about business use, these things that
11:57:31 are always contentious within land use, the better off we
11:57:34 are going to be.
11:57:35 Because I think that most business owners want to have a set
11:57:40 of rules, a template that they can follow and say this is my
11:57:44 cost in order for me to open up this particular business
11:57:48 going forward.
11:57:49 You know, I deal with this all the time.
11:57:51 When I deal with business owners, which is what is the cost
11:57:55 going to be associated with the number of employees I am
11:57:57 going to hire, the permits that I have to have, the
11:57:59 insurance that I have to have, you know, all those things
11:58:03 are incredibly necessary, and for me, it's an issue of how
11:58:09 do we find the right mix for us?
11:58:12 I would love to see a lot of things, land use now, take it
11:58:15 out, so that we can take care of bad actors when we do have
11:58:19 them
11:58:20 Now, specifically on restaurants, we have talked about a
11:58:23 little bit of the time that they can be open, okay?
11:58:28 And we talked about business use permit.
11:58:30 You know, St. Pete uses that.
11:58:32 It was brought up by Mrs. Capin before in terms of a draft
11:58:36 ordinance pertaining to that.
11:58:38 And I think the only disagreement I have with my colleague
11:58:42 on that is -- and I agree with Mr. Cohen on this, which
11:58:46 would be whether go forward or not, look back for everyone,
11:58:51 because I feel there is a fairness issue concerning the
11:58:54 amount of time, effort and money that businesses have
11:58:57 already put into land use permitting, to put that onto their
11:59:00 land use category.
11:59:03 I think that if you are a business, and you are competitive,
11:59:05 and you want to stay competitive with other folks, if they
11:59:08 have got a business use permit -- and I have said this
11:59:11 before, too -- that unless it's open till 3 a.m., you as
11:59:16 that particular business owner are going to say, now what?
11:59:19 I am going to go back.
11:59:20 I want to change my land use -- and this San question we are
11:59:23 going to have to talk about legally -- do they take it off
11:59:26 their land use permit in order to go forward after the fact?
11:59:29 Or is it a business use permissible on top of what the
11:59:36 original site man was?
11:59:37 So they come in to amend it?
11:59:40 Or can they just say, look, we are going to get rid of this,
11:59:43 and we are going to go forward with a business use permit
11:59:45 that allows us to open up longer than what we have before?
11:59:50 >>REBECCA KERT: I am just going to try to answer the very
11:59:53 last question that you gave.
11:59:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Find the one that you like best.
11:59:58 >>REBECCA KERT: The very last one that you asked, and that
12:00:02 is, no, you can't use a business operating permit to change
12:00:05 a special use permit.
12:00:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's not my question.
12:00:10 My question was whether or not you have to come in and
12:00:12 change your land use permit to remove the time frame and
12:00:17 allow for a business use permit at that point for that
12:00:20 particular use.
12:00:23 >>REBECCA KERT: If you have on your land use permit that
12:00:27 are -- conditions that are contrary to be either business
12:00:30 operating regulations generally, or a business operating
12:00:35 permit, yes.
12:00:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: There's a cost associated with it somebody
12:00:39 coming back in order to change their site plan.
12:00:42 And the process for that would be administrative or would it
12:00:45 come before us?
12:00:46 >> The way you have it set up right now, if they have
12:00:50 something on their permit -- let me take a step back.
12:00:56 Under your regulations as now, they are going to have to
12:00:59 come back to you if they want to stay open later than three,
12:01:03 because you have to revise your administrative land use
12:01:06 permit to make allowance for that.
12:01:07 >> And for me, I think once we find out, I think you are
12:01:12 going to have to -- at spoke point we are going to have to
12:01:17 have a discussion about diving is deep into the legislature
12:01:20 will allow us to do in terms of business permit, because I
12:01:23 think there is a way that we can solve this.
12:01:25 I am agree with Mr. Cohen when he has said that this
12:01:29 discussion, balks it's important, not just for one area that
12:01:32 he represents, but for the entire city on how we look at
12:01:36 these things for the future, we need to find a happy medium
12:01:40 in which land use does not include so many on the part of it
12:01:43 that it's almost impossible -- and I shouldn't say
12:01:46 impossible -- it improbable that we are going to close down
12:01:49 a location because we happen to have a bad actor.
12:01:54 And their particular use is again not only the
12:01:59 neighborhood's wishes but also in terms of law enforcement
12:02:01 and some on the things.
12:02:03 We are really going to have to come back and revisit.
12:02:05 But thanks for explaining in terms of what that would mean
12:02:08 in relation to land use.
12:02:10 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:02:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
12:02:12 And before I go to Mrs. Capin, there's also three other
12:02:17 council members who represent the whole city, and when you
12:02:20 talk about one council member, what happens when you call
12:02:23 the department, they only give you one.
12:02:26 Wherever that district S.but in essence that's really four.
12:02:28 So I just want to put that on the record.
12:02:31 Okay, Mrs. Capin.
12:02:32 And then we are going to close after Mrs. Capin and come
12:02:35 back.
12:02:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you very much for the floor.
12:02:38 But good news, because the discussion we are having right
12:02:42 now is a discussion that we could have had December the
12:02:46 5th.
12:02:48 But it is June 19th.
12:02:50 And my colleagues are green with what was presented, because
12:02:57 at least four members voted to bring it forth.
12:03:03 Yes, it could be a permit and it's a business permit tied to
12:03:05 the business.
12:03:09 And I'm listening, and I'm thinking, this is exactly why it
12:03:14 was a draft, because my colleagues are exactly doing what
12:03:19 could have been done December the 5th.
12:03:21 But it's now June 19th.
12:03:24 And that is exactly what was brought forth, was a business
12:03:30 license permit, and alcohol you can beverage permit tied to
12:03:34 a business license.
12:03:35 Now, whether it moves forward or not or in the future, it's
12:03:39 fine.
12:03:40 One of the consequences that could happen with that is if we
12:03:44 move forward on a business which I think is not a bad idea,
12:03:49 but it isn't all of it, is that the consequences could be
12:03:54 that the people that are grandfathered in become
12:03:56 millionaires.
12:03:58 Because they don't have to comply with the business.
12:04:01 So there you go.
12:04:03 That is one possible consequence.
12:04:06 Now, the only thing I want to do before we break for lunch
12:04:09 is during a workshop you can make a motion at any time.
12:04:13 And I would like to make a motion.
12:04:14 And the motion is to -- I wrote it down here.
12:04:23 Very short.
12:04:24 Yes, the motion is that we align the hours of operation for
12:04:33 alcoholic beverage consumption seven days a week.
12:04:40 So it would be from 7 a.m. to 3 a.m., seven days a week.
12:04:45 And I believe that would be helpful to our community and the
12:04:51 small businesses in our community.
12:04:53 And it doesn't break up.
12:04:56 It's all the same.
12:04:58 So that's my motion, to align the hours of operation seven
12:05:02 days a week, Sunday with the other days of the week, 7 a.m.
12:05:07 to 3 a.m.
12:05:08 That is my motion.
12:05:09 >> I have a motion on the floor.
12:05:10 Do I have a second?
12:05:12 Motion dies for lack of a second.
12:05:14 Let me say this.
12:05:15 Anything else?
12:05:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
12:05:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say.
12:05:18 We are going to go into recess.
12:05:20 But I have to poll the council because there's a special
12:05:22 meeting to do after we come back and I want to know how many
12:05:27 council members are going to be back after the one and a
12:05:29 half hour lunch break.
12:05:31 Will we have a quorum?
12:05:32 All right.
12:05:32 With all due respect for everyone here, I want to thank you
12:05:35 very much.
12:05:35 And we will be back at --
12:05:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, before he would adjourn, so are we
12:05:45 coming back to part A?
12:05:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are coming back to part A to finish it
12:05:49 off and the other four.
12:05:51 Yes, sir.
12:05:56 Then I will discuss what happened
12:06:00 We stand adjourned until 1:30.
12:06:03 (Tampa City Council recessed until 1:30).
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12:06:21
12:06:17 >>MIKE COHEN: City Council's afternoon session is about to
01:36:46 begin.
01:36:46 Can we please have roll call?
01:36:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
01:36:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
01:36:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
01:36:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
01:36:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Chairman Miranda just called a minute ago
01:37:01 and he said he will be here in about five to ten minutes.
01:37:04 They had some car trouble on the way back from lunch.
01:37:07 So we are resuming our discussion of part A of agenda item
01:37:12 number 5, and I believe Councilwoman Capin was the last
01:37:18 person to speak.
01:37:21 Well, we are just picking up where we left off.
01:37:30 Does anyone have any additional comments related to item
01:37:33 number 5, part A?
01:37:41 >> Public comment?
01:37:48 >> I guess we could do that.
01:37:51 >>HARRY COHEN: We are going to take public comment at the
01:37:53 end of the workshop.
01:37:54 When we have completed we will be happy to hear from the
01:37:57 public.
01:37:57 Councilman Mulhern.
01:38:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, we had public -- I thought we had
01:38:02 public comment.
01:38:04 >>HARRY COHEN: We had it on part B.
01:38:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Haven't had it on part A.
01:38:11 Okay.
01:38:12 If no one --
01:38:14 >>HARRY COHEN: If there's no one additional I think we can
01:38:16 take comment on part 5-A.
01:38:19 >> Rick Fifer, Old Seminole Heights.
01:38:29 I don't know if I need to repeat the whole spiel again.
01:38:32 On the wet zoning issue, at the suggestion of 7 a.m. to
01:38:40 3 p.m -- 3 a.m., I we have got in Seminole Heights some that
01:38:48 have been grandfathered that have been there for a while
01:38:50 that have the traditional till 3 a.m.
01:38:53 We have the other ones that have been in place and has gone
01:38:56 into effect since, which is now the refinery, which we
01:39:03 generally had as a rule in the neighborhood that the alcohol
01:39:07 beverage serving establishments during weeknights Sunday
01:39:10 through Wednesday and at 11, and on Thursday, Friday and
01:39:17 Saturday, end at 1:00.
01:39:21 Very concerned of something that would overrule what we have
01:39:24 tried to do to prevent some of our concerns, and broadening
01:39:29 till 3 a.m. is just not a good idea for us, and we would be
01:39:33 very much opposed to that.
01:39:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to -- thank you, I'm sorry.
01:39:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Do you want to wait till he finished?
01:39:42 >> If this is being done to address issues elsewhere, what I
01:39:47 am concerned about is that it not be broadened to negate
01:39:53 things that the neighborhood worked with the business
01:39:55 owners.
01:39:55 Many of the business owners that have open restaurants and
01:39:58 do have wet zonings actually live in the neighborhood so
01:40:02 they have been respectful.
01:40:02 But as Tom pointed out earlier, wet zonings are forever.
01:40:06 And my concern -- and I encourage people to keep the big
01:40:10 picture in mind -- once that wet zoning is there, your
01:40:15 friend may not have that and you may not like how they
01:40:20 behave.
01:40:21 That's why we would like to keep those parameters we have
01:40:23 had now for about seven years.
01:40:25 Thank you.
01:40:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
01:40:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just to clarify.
01:40:30 What we have now on the books, if you will, to code, is
01:40:38 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. Monday through Saturday.
01:40:41 That's what's there now.
01:40:43 And 11 a.m. to 3 a.m. on Sunday.
01:40:48 That's what's there now.
01:40:49 What you are talking about is conditioned, and that would
01:40:55 not go away.
01:40:57 All I'm looking at is the business, the small businesses
01:41:00 that on Sunday people want to have brunch, and they have to
01:41:08 wait till after 11 a.m. instead of 10 a.m.
01:41:12 It's helping the businesses, because they are going across
01:41:14 the water to have brunch.
01:41:16 And that is what I was looking at.
01:41:18 Plus it would align it and make everything the same.
01:41:21 But changes anybody, if they have conditioned hours, from,
01:41:32 you know, 11 a.m. to 11 p.m., that's what they have on their
01:41:35 site plan.
01:41:36 It's just code.
01:41:39 Right now that's what we allow.
01:41:40 We allow 20 hours a day.
01:41:42 And if it's to code, they can serve anytime within those 20
01:41:46 hours, unless they have been conditioned.
01:41:49 And it's on the site plan, therefore it goes with the land.
01:41:53 Those conditions cannot -- they cannot, even if we change to
01:41:58 24 hours, that's the conditions they have.
01:41:59 That's the conditions they have to work understood.
01:42:02 Does that help?
01:42:04 >> Yeah, my concern is what will be going forward, if this
01:42:08 change goes forward, what I want to make sure of is the next
01:42:13 wet zoning request that comes into our neighborhood isn't
01:42:16 going to automatically fall under this broad umbrella and
01:42:18 not respect the guidelines of the neighborhood has been
01:42:21 advocating for years.
01:42:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They already do all over the city.
01:42:26 >> They don't in my neighborhood.
01:42:28 >> Well, if I find one -- up until 1998, there were never
01:42:35 conditions, and those were the hours.
01:42:36 Those are the hours.
01:42:38 Whether they open or not, those are the hours that they are
01:42:40 permitted to open unless it was conditioned.
01:42:44 I know what you are talking about.
01:42:46 But right now, as we stand, those are the hours that are
01:42:51 permitted in this city, which is 20 hours a day.
01:42:53 >> And we have businesses that were opened prior to that
01:42:57 time period, and I can rattle off the ones.
01:43:00 And I can rattle off the one that are open to about 2007 and
01:43:05 they do not and cannot.
01:43:07 Because we have opposed every single one.
01:43:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They asked for the hours.
01:43:11 I understand.
01:43:11 That it's not going to change them.
01:43:15 I can't get very clear on what I am trying to do. It's just
01:43:17 a matter of our code.
01:43:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Montelione.
01:43:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Kert?
01:43:28 Can you explain the hours of operation that -- if what Mr.
01:43:41 Fifer was concerned about was not whether or not they can
01:43:46 stay open till three but whether they can open before
01:43:48 eleven.
01:43:50 Now, come to the microphone.
01:43:57 >> My concern was that they could not serve past 11:00 at
01:44:06 night, Sunday through Wednesday.
01:44:12 Thank you.
01:44:13 And Thursday through Saturday they could stay open till 1.
01:44:18 Not when they open in the morning.
01:44:19 But how late they can stay open at night.
01:44:22 Primarily because the area is residential.
01:44:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the establishments that have the land
01:44:28 use permit who have the hours on their site plan have the
01:44:31 hours on their site plan.
01:44:32 We can't change them unless somebody comes in and requests a
01:44:37 revision to their site plan approval to change the hours of
01:44:43 operation.
01:44:43 Correct, Ms. Kert?
01:44:45 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department, correct.
01:44:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the special use application for
01:44:56 alcohol beverage permitting, how are those hours regulated?
01:45:04 Same thing if somebody wants to change what they have
01:45:07 already been granted they have to come in to request that?
01:45:10 >>REBECCA KERT: It sound like you are --
01:45:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm asking the same thing in a different
01:45:17 way, yeah.
01:45:18 But some people are confused by the terminology we use.
01:45:21 So when we use land use permits that runs with the land, and
01:45:25 we use the term SU-2, alcoholic beverage permitting, it's
01:45:30 the same thing.
01:45:31 >>REBECCA KERT: It is the same thing.
01:45:33 So the answer to both of those questions.
01:45:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And if we change our code for operating
01:45:40 hours, can you state the hours that we currently have,
01:45:43 please?
01:45:44 >>REBECCA KERT: Currently the hours that you have are from
01:45:46 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. except for Sunday when the hours are
01:45:49 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
01:45:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So our code, by our code, it's 3 a.m.,
01:45:56 Mr. Fifer.
01:45:58 So it's what I believe is being proposed is to make Sunday
01:46:05 earlier to allow for the people who want to have brunch.
01:46:09 So it would be allowing the Sunday hours to start at 7:00
01:46:15 and go to 3:00 just like the other days of the week.
01:46:22 You have to come to the microphone again.
01:46:23 But that's what I think we are getting at here.
01:46:27 But anyplace that has it on their site plan already has
01:46:32 those hours of operation.
01:46:33 And any new application that comes in would then be subject
01:46:37 to whatever it is by code.
01:46:40 So if we change the code to be, you know, 7 a.m. every day
01:46:44 of the week and 3 a.m. every day of the week, anybody who
01:46:47 comes in and has their hours on their site plan to code are
01:46:52 allowed those operating hours.
01:46:55 So that's the new applications.
01:46:59 It's what's being discussed which is why we are having this
01:47:02 workshop.
01:47:04 Thank you.
01:47:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Next.
01:47:09 >> Jerry Frankhauser.
01:47:14 You really got me confused now, ma'am.
01:47:16 You really did a good job.
01:47:17 I thought people were allowed to keep their restaurants open
01:47:21 till noon -- or midnight, I'm sorry, from 7 a.m. to
01:47:24 midnight.
01:47:24 I thought that was state law.
01:47:26 Give me some help.
01:47:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me see if I can help out a little
01:47:30 bit.
01:47:30 And I apologize for being late.
01:47:32 >> That's okay.
01:47:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The battery died on the car.
01:47:36 I have witnesses.
01:47:38 Never believe a politician.
01:47:40 But we had three other witness.
01:47:42 That's what happened.
01:47:44 I had a kind police officer so I could get here.
01:47:50 But what happened was.
01:47:51 This we were regulated by ourselves very carefully.
01:47:54 And every time somebody applied for a license, R,
01:48:00 restaurant, whatever, they would come and they would ask,
01:48:02 and depending on where they were in the neighborhood, they
01:48:06 would have different hours.
01:48:07 Sometimes from 7 in the morning till 10 or 11:00, and then
01:48:13 it went to midnight, and all of a sudden, about four or five
01:48:16 years ago, five or six years ago, through the Super Bowl,
01:48:20 someone came up and asked, it was a restaurant, to be open
01:48:24 till thee in the morning.
01:48:25 And I made those statements then, you can verify them
01:48:28 through the media, but it passed.
01:48:33 And I just took a guess, 2500 additional bars, because now
01:48:37 restaurants become bars, because now you can go till three
01:48:40 in the morning without respect to the neighborhood, without
01:48:42 anything of input.
01:48:44 That's what happened.
01:48:46 I'm not saying how the vote went or who it was.
01:48:48 I don't say none of those things.
01:48:50 But that's what happened.
01:48:51 And then there was another one that came up that used to be
01:48:55 60/40.
01:48:56 Mayor Freedman changed that law to 51/49 back in the heyday.
01:49:02 Then that same one came here a couple of years ago and said,
01:49:05 I cannot meet the 51/49.
01:49:08 And again, this council voted to give it what they wanted.
01:49:13 They became a bar.
01:49:14 Even though they had a menu, even though they had a nice up
01:49:19 front, and guess what happened.
01:49:21 Both of those places are now closed on their own.
01:49:24 So that's what happened.
01:49:25 And some of us remember when it was to have a gas station
01:49:34 selling top go.
01:49:36 Oh, you can't drink and drive.
01:49:38 And that was a big thing and everyone was in an uproar about
01:49:44 that.
01:49:44 That was back in the 70s.
01:49:45 So I'm trying to bring you some critique into what happened.
01:49:48 There is no state law that says from 7 to 11 or 7 to 12.
01:49:53 It has always been 7 to 3, if I recall it right.
01:49:57 But we had restrictions on whoever applied, if they knew
01:50:01 more about where they were at, what they could ask for.
01:50:04 And we stuck by.
01:50:05 That however, that changed with the modernization of time.
01:50:08 >> So when you get a license from the State of Florida, any
01:50:14 hours you want, basically?
01:50:15 >> Well, for 20 hours.
01:50:17 And correct me if I am wrong.
01:50:19 Either one of you because I am not an expert on alcohol.
01:50:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
01:50:24 In the state law it's actually midnight.
01:50:26 And then we locally have the ability to adopt different
01:50:31 hours, City of Tampa adopted three.
01:50:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: State law is midnight but we go to three.
01:50:36 >> That's what I understood that to be, midnight F.that's
01:50:39 the case, T.H.A.N. is really backing the business license
01:50:45 project, to give the business license from midnight to 3.
01:50:50 And we understand that it's going to take awhile to do that
01:50:53 because you can't get everybody's site plan changed in order
01:50:58 to change the law.
01:50:59 Now, some of them are going to stay open till 3 because they
01:51:03 are entitled to and they are going to do it whether they
01:51:05 make any money or not.
01:51:07 But at least you need to have the ones with the business
01:51:11 plan type thing, whatever is being proposed for that.
01:51:18 Then you can regulate it if there's any problem down the
01:51:20 road.
01:51:21 But it's going to take awhile because the new ones are going
01:51:24 to have to be processed through that.
01:51:27 Thank you.
01:51:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
01:51:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
01:51:32 I want to clarify a little bit more than that, because the
01:51:37 other thing that happened, I guess it was in 2011, was that
01:51:49 this council approved the administrative process for
01:51:55 restaurants.
01:51:58 So I don't know what the hours for restaurants are.
01:52:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Prior to 2011, it was 3:00 just like
01:52:09 everything else.
01:52:10 It defaulted to the code.
01:52:12 The administrative documents requested the 11 p.m. closing,
01:52:16 and 1 a.m. Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
01:52:18 So prior to 2011, was either an ad hoc condition that their
01:52:23 applicant agreed to or defaulted to code which is 3 a.m.
01:52:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
01:52:28 So we have that at least protection if it's a restaurant
01:52:31 that doesn't want to come in front of council.
01:52:33 >> Thank you.
01:52:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
01:52:37 Anyone else who has not spoken on this item?
01:52:40 Any further comments by council members?
01:52:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, thank you.
01:52:48 Do you recognize me?
01:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
01:52:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
01:52:53 There might have been a little bit misconception here.
01:52:56 No one is extending to 3 a.m.
01:52:57 What we are doing is, what I tried to do was add three hours
01:53:02 to Sunday morning.
01:53:04 That's it.
01:53:05 Nothing else is changing.
01:53:07 And when you talk about which is the morning -- and this is
01:53:13 brought to me by small businesses that ask for it because
01:53:17 people -- you know, he stood there and said that's the
01:53:21 American way, that's when I want to serve cocktails.
01:53:26 That's what people do, they have bloody Mary on Sunday
01:53:29 morning, they have their champagne cocktail, and the
01:53:32 businesses this year are not taking advantage of that
01:53:35 because they are moving on.
01:53:39 Sarasota has aligned their hours.
01:53:43 St. Petersburg.
01:53:45 So when we look at it, and we want to be, you know, the city
01:53:51 that welcomes everyone, young people work on a whole
01:53:55 different clock than we do.
01:53:57 And they have projects.
01:53:59 They'll work till 10, 11:00 at night.
01:54:02 I ran into a reporter when I represented district 4, and I
01:54:05 was out there on Howard Avenue, and I had a meeting, and
01:54:08 there were 80 people showed up, businesses, homeowners, and
01:54:11 the reporter that was there from the media, from the TV
01:54:15 station, said to me, I don't get done till after 11 p.m.
01:54:19 I want to find a place to eat.
01:54:23 I want to find a place to eat at 1 a.m.
01:54:25 I can't find it.
01:54:26 That was four years ago.
01:54:32 So that's what I was talking about.
01:54:36 But apparently, the misconception was nobody is extending
01:54:42 anything to 3 a.m. that's already there.
01:54:45 What I am trying to do is align the hours, particularly on
01:54:48 Sunday.
01:54:49 And you know what?
01:54:52 Whoever wants to go to church will go to church, and those
01:54:54 that don't, don't.
01:54:55 So the condition about church, you are not going to make
01:54:58 them go to church because all of a sudden you have a Mimosa
01:55:02 available at 9:00 a.m.
01:55:05 That is not going to happen.
01:55:06 You have got to give more credit to the public.
01:55:09 Than that.
01:55:12 That's what I was trying to do, help the small business.
01:55:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
01:55:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I would hate to see our city
01:55:22 become an intoxicated city on Sunday.
01:55:25 And that's basically what's going to happen if you start
01:55:28 allowing alcohol to be served at 10:00 in the morning.
01:55:33 So those with a hangover the night before won't drift into
01:55:37 us till the next morning. I don't want to see that happen.
01:55:40 And I think a lot of those people might be young folks.
01:55:45 And I just don't want to take that risk.
01:55:48 And I can't support that proposal.
01:55:51 But -- whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:55:59 Mr. Chair, but --
01:56:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think if we leave it alone, or just say
01:56:08 that nobody wants to do anything with part A.
01:56:13 It will be coming back here till I grow hair.
01:56:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yeah, I move till 2015, April.
01:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's not the issue here.
01:56:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
01:56:34 >>HARRY COHEN: I will tell you, it is my intention after
01:56:37 the break to try to deal with some limited issues related to
01:56:43 parking and traffic and different things that are sort of
01:56:47 ancillary to this.
01:56:48 So I'm not sure that it's totally the end of the discussion,
01:56:54 but I am not prepared to make any motion regarding that now.
01:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I appreciate.
01:56:59 That I appreciate everything that's been said.
01:57:01 But every time you do one step forward, they come up with
01:57:04 something new.
01:57:05 And that something new now is parking.
01:57:09 And legal will tell you because when they sign a contract to
01:57:11 rent something for parking, it is a contract and is legal
01:57:14 but as soon as you go out that door, they throw it away or
01:57:17 break it, guess what, too bad.
01:57:20 You gave them the license and that's the end of it.
01:57:22 So somehow, Mr. Cohen, maybe you can work miracles, and it
01:57:26 will take some hard work to tie the parking into the
01:57:29 license.
01:57:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, if you go back to the discussion we
01:57:33 were having before the break, that's a perfect example of
01:57:38 something that if it weren't in the land use regulation, but
01:57:45 were perhaps a business condition related to the approval,
01:57:48 that at least for auxiliary parking could be considered when
01:57:54 we are making our decision, because if the parking went
01:57:57 away, the approval would go away with it.
01:58:00 So, you know, these are directions we can go in moving
01:58:03 forward.
01:58:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, I believe
01:58:08 a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
01:58:09 Is that correct?
01:58:12 Mr. Reddick?
01:58:17 Well, as chairman, I have to say it's a motion.
01:58:22 I'm not God, you know.
01:58:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: I would make it as a motion because I am
01:58:26 not prepared.
01:58:27 I don't want this to come back before the end of the year.
01:58:30 My motion would be we postpone this to April 2015.
01:58:34 >> Second.
01:58:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
01:58:39 I have a second by -- any further discussion?
01:58:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes, I do not want to have any motion, okay?
01:58:46 I think we should let this conversation lie, but I don't
01:58:50 think we should be precluded from bringing it up no matter.
01:58:56 (Multiple conversations.)
01:58:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I will second Mr. Reddick's motion.
01:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Hold it, hold it.
01:59:04 All in favor of the motion say aye.
01:59:06 Opposed nay.
01:59:07 Well --
01:59:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can we have discussion or not on the motion?
01:59:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me undo the motion for discussion
01:59:15 purposes.
01:59:15 I'm sorry, I got here late.
01:59:17 I'm sorry the car didn't burn.
01:59:21 [ Laughter ]
01:59:22 Well, it wasn't my car.
01:59:24 [ Laughter ]
01:59:26 I need a motion.
01:59:34 Rescind the motion.
01:59:35 Rescind the vote.
01:59:36 I have a motion rescinded so we can get back to the motion.
01:59:40 Nobody wants to second it?
01:59:41 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
01:59:42 All in favor of the motion?
01:59:44 Opposed?
01:59:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:59:46 Mrs. Capin.
01:59:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, here we go.
01:59:48 Yes, the noted the date this should come back which is April
01:59:55 15 which is the month right after the election.
01:59:57 Thank you very much.
01:59:58 That's exactly -- exactly -- whoever votes for this, I am
02:00:06 going to tell you right now, it is all about the election in
02:00:09 March.
02:00:12 Thank you very much.
02:00:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
02:00:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion on the motion?
02:00:18 That will be a discussion for politics, if that's what you
02:00:21 want to call it, the election in March.
02:00:30 Okay.
02:00:30 Do I have a second?
02:00:33 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick's motion.
02:00:35 Go back to the original motion by Mr. Reddick.
02:00:37 Seconded now by Mrs. Montelione.
02:00:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a specific date attached to that
02:00:42 to come back?
02:00:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: We don't have a calendar.
02:00:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, we'll get you a calendar, don't
02:00:49 worry.
02:00:52 The third Thursday in April.
02:00:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Third Thursday in April.
02:00:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It appears to be the 17th?
02:01:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: April 17th.
02:01:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:01:08 Further discussion on the motion?
02:01:09 All in favor of the motion?
02:01:11 Opposed?
02:01:13 Motion passes 5-2.
02:01:17 Or 4 to 3.
02:01:21 Do you know?
02:01:21 Okay, motion passes 4 to 3.
02:01:25 All right.
02:01:25 Item number 6.
02:01:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, forgive me.
02:01:35 I was looking at the back of our calendar and I didn't
02:01:38 realize it was a 2014 calendar.
02:01:40 It's April 16th the date.
02:01:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need to make another motion by Mr.
02:01:47 Reddick rescinding the motion.
02:01:49 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:01:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Restate the motion by having April 16?
02:01:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of the motion to rescind the
02:01:59 motion?
02:02:00 Opposed?
02:02:01 Motion passed unanimously Mr. Reddick?
02:02:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to postpone until April 16, 2015.
02:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's part A of item 5.
02:02:13 Motion made by Mr. Reddick.
02:02:15 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione at 10:00 in the morning.
02:02:17 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
02:02:20 Opposed nay.
02:02:21 Motion passes 4-3.
02:02:25 With Suarez, Capin, Mulhern no.
02:02:28 Okay.
02:02:36 Item number 6.
02:02:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
02:02:43 I am going to go through some of the questions that you
02:02:45 asked related to traffic impacts and mitigation and how we
02:02:48 study, why we study, traffic impacts, what triggers them,
02:02:59 and she's with the planning and urban design group, our
02:03:03 traffic engineering coordinator, and Steve Jonathan as well,
02:03:10 and John marsh is also on her team, most of the
02:03:13 administrative special uses and other requests that come
02:03:16 through the entitlement process.
02:03:18 So it's a team of planners, engineers that are review these
02:03:22 things.
02:03:22 Melanie sits down with developers and actually carves out or
02:03:26 decides what the methodologies is going to be with the
02:03:30 outside engineers, and tells us essentially what areas to
02:03:33 study, which intersections and so forth.
02:03:36 But just to go through briefly the first document you have,
02:03:43 the 24th or whenever it is, but I did write on here last
02:03:48 time I noted, ironically, this item 6.
02:03:53 I gave you the background at the top with the ordinances.
02:03:56 In 2011, March 17th, City Council adopted changes to
02:04:02 chapter 17.5, which at the time was the planning and Land
02:04:05 Development Code.
02:04:08 The management manual.
02:04:12 And also on that date City Council adopted changes to the
02:04:16 transportation code chapter 25 and adopted the traffic
02:04:18 impact analysis and mitigation plan procedures manual.
02:04:22 You do have portions, excerpts grab from that manual in your
02:04:26 backup material.
02:04:28 But as far as the overview of the manual itself, what I did
02:04:32 was highlight some of the questions that you asked.
02:04:38 One of the procedures in the manual used and what do they
02:04:41 do?
02:04:41 The first bullet point that determines traffic analysis is
02:04:46 required is how large an area is studied in the analysis,
02:04:50 what types of development, applications to make if a traffic
02:04:56 analysis is required.
02:04:57 These are the particular applications that come in that
02:04:59 trigger, your question about what triggers analysis.
02:05:04 The question of whether or not analysis is required.
02:05:07 We would evaluate whether one is required in a site plan
02:05:10 rezoning, building plan review and construction plan review.
02:05:14 So really everything from the entitlement coming to you and
02:05:17 asking for specific uses and square footages on land, all
02:05:21 the way to the actual physical construction permits.
02:05:26 Are there any exemptions in the manual?
02:05:29 Specific, the developments that fall under the no study
02:05:32 threshold are considered exempt from additional study within
02:05:37 this manual.
02:05:38 And it's classified as de minimis.
02:05:43 Projects that generate fewer than 100 net daily new trips
02:05:49 where driveway volume, with the generation rate, for further
02:05:56 study, shall mitigate their impact solely through the impact
02:06:00 of a impact fee.
02:06:02 There's already set fees based on this.
02:06:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm looking at this chart.
02:06:08 And is this what you were telling me was really old?
02:06:16 When was this list created?
02:06:25 >> Page 3, this is what was adopted.
02:06:27 This is the node study look-up table.
02:06:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Because some of these things don't -- it
02:06:34 doesn't seem quite right to me that high turnover
02:06:40 restaurant, supermarket.
02:06:43 >> Square footage of a supermarket.
02:06:46 So a supermarket comes in and does a thousand square foot
02:06:49 addition, hook up under the no threshold.
02:06:55 They are only doing a small addition, because those square
02:06:58 footages or rooms, or the single equal the daily trip at the
02:07:08 unit.
02:07:09 Supermarket is 1,000 square feet.
02:07:12 >>MARY MULHERN: So the unit is what they are asking for in
02:07:19 addition?
02:07:27 >> If you stay at the hotel, you look at it by room, so how
02:07:33 many trips it is, each room generates 8.17 trips.
02:07:37 If you add 13 rooms to the hotel, or if your hotel happens
02:07:40 to be 13 rooms only, which would be, I believe, that
02:07:45 generates 100 trips.
02:07:47 So that would be no study required.
02:07:49 But the low de minimis threshold.
02:07:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:07:54 So per square feet.
02:07:59 >> Square footage, stall, room, depends on what the use is.
02:08:05 It's done by room count.
02:08:09 A city park is actually an acre.
02:08:19 These are again all back to the trips generated through the
02:08:26 manual.
02:08:26 So the de minimis rate, the 100 trips, if you generate that
02:08:32 or less then we don't require the study.
02:08:37 But I was going to show you this.
02:08:41 I can keep going if you like.
02:08:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Go ahead.
02:08:44 >> Okay.
02:08:49 As far as other exemptions, there are areas of the city
02:08:51 defined, downtown revitalization district, downtown
02:08:55 community redevelopment areas, Channel District CRA.
02:09:00 They are not required to provide a traffic impact analysis
02:09:03 and mitigation plan, but they must mitigate site impacts.
02:09:10 And there's just the description of that at the end.
02:09:13 Just remember they must mitigate that impact.
02:09:15 Then the urban redevelopment district, that's Westshore,
02:09:19 University of South Florida, and the CRAs, the Heights,
02:09:24 Central Park Village and Ybor City.
02:09:25 They are required to provide a traffic impact analysis and
02:09:28 mitigation plan, but they are not required to conduct the
02:09:32 enhanced network impact analysis determination.
02:09:38 As defined in those sections.
02:09:41 And if you think about it, that description, that kind of
02:09:46 kicks off -- it's a tiered system.
02:09:50 You start with the no hookup table.
02:09:52 If you are generating something that's de minimis by that
02:09:55 table you are good to go.
02:09:57 If you are in a specific area that's exempt, then you are
02:10:00 fine.
02:10:00 Then the studies, they get a little more detailed in the
02:10:05 methodologys, essentially studying more and more as you go
02:10:09 out depending on the type of development and where you are.
02:10:12 So the other exemptions, in the no transportation impact fee
02:10:21 free zones, they are not required to provide the traffic
02:10:24 impact analysis and mitigation plan, but they must mitigate
02:10:27 site impacts.
02:10:29 An example I gave you, this is the map.
02:10:35 And it's written on your pages 5, 6, 7 and 8.
02:10:39 This is a city-wide map that shows you where those areas
02:10:42 are, and it shows you the city code that was amended to
02:10:47 actually identify them.
02:10:49 So you have the West Tampa impact fee exemption area.
02:10:53 East Tampa.
02:10:54 And Ybor City.
02:10:59 And included the area maps just to show you what they were.
02:11:01 So this is actually Ybor City.
02:11:04 These boundaries are adopted by City Council.
02:11:07 And impact fees.
02:11:12 This one is East Tampa.
02:11:25 And the last one is West Tampa.
02:11:28 So if you are within one of those areas already designated
02:11:32 as not having to pay impact fees, you also don't have to do
02:11:37 the mitigation study for traffic impact, but you must
02:11:43 mitigate site impact specifically.
02:11:48 Looking at your driveway.
02:11:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
02:11:55 Let me ask you a question about this.
02:11:57 Because I'm a little bit confused which is no surprise to
02:12:01 you I'm sure.
02:12:06 I thought you're a planner, gore God's sakes, you are
02:12:13 supposed to know this stuff.
02:12:13 >> And 30 years back, just the manual happens to be new.
02:12:20 >> I have a question.
02:12:20 When you are talking about the study area, let's say East
02:12:25 Tampa on this study area, no impact fee zone, and then you
02:12:32 are looking at the appendix 2, which is the node study
02:12:36 look-up table.
02:12:37 Now, when you are changing the use of a particular site,
02:12:42 would you not do -- and let's say it goes from a
02:12:49 nonintensive use site to a more intensive use site, would
02:12:55 you need a traffic study?
02:12:56 >> It depends on where you are.
02:12:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I know, East Tampa specifically.
02:13:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You specifically have to mitigate your
02:13:06 site impacts.
02:13:07 And the last self Pinellas I gave you, a description in
02:13:12 paragraph B of your site specific analysis.
02:13:17 It's a pretty brief description but --
02:13:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: B?
02:13:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: B.
02:13:26 My handwriting is page 10.
02:13:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay, I read that before.
02:13:33 And the question is when you are talking about,
02:13:37 hypothetically, let's talk about something that may have
02:13:39 been a new car sales location and now it becomes a big box
02:13:47 sales location, hypothetically.
02:13:50 Is it the intensive use of that different -- obviously, the
02:13:54 number of people that go to a new car dealership is
02:13:59 different than those who go to a big box store.
02:14:01 I mean, isn't the study necessary in order to see what that
02:14:04 differential would be?
02:14:07 >> The trip count is different but again it depends on
02:14:10 whether or not you fall within one of these thresholds.
02:14:15 >> That's a pretty large box.
02:14:16 The definition by its nature, the development, why wouldn't
02:14:20 you do a traffic impact study then when you are talking
02:14:24 about something that's so different in terms of use?
02:14:26 >> Well, you fall understood one of the exemptions, one of
02:14:29 the threshold, but you don't trying area study, one of these
02:14:33 tiered studies.
02:14:34 >> So a big box.
02:14:36 >> a big box in South Tampa would probably require a bigger
02:14:39 study, and one of the exemption areas.
02:14:42 It's a gentlemen graphical thing.
02:14:44 It really depends location by location.
02:14:46 >> So it really based upon the exemption zone more than it
02:14:49 is the size of the traffic impact itself of that particular
02:14:53 development?
02:14:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It start with where you are, and we have
02:14:57 to decide what piece you fall under, whether or not you are
02:15:01 in an impact area, but a trip count is generated as well.
02:15:07 >> So if we are on Dale Mabry, let's say versus Hillsborough
02:15:10 Avenue, it sound like it's more of the impact location,
02:15:16 meaning the zone itself as opposed to anything else.
02:15:19 I mean, Ms. Mandell, you are there for a reason.
02:15:22 >>JULIA MANDELL: City attorney.
02:15:25 But actually, the zoning and transportation attorney that
02:15:30 was involved with the drafting of these regulations, and
02:15:33 dealing with the reasons why, and this brief understanding
02:15:39 as to why these regulations are in place the way they are.
02:15:44 Back in about, I think, 2009, the way the statute was
02:15:49 drafted for transportation, exception areas, which we were
02:15:53 one, require most of the city with the concurrency exemption
02:15:58 area required us to be just like our concurrency process,
02:16:02 our concurrency exception area process, and during that
02:16:05 time, we were also looking at finding our opportunities to
02:16:10 create transportation corridors, as well as transportation
02:16:16 oriented -- transit oriented development.
02:16:19 So in our comprehensive plan was revised in order to address
02:16:23 all of these issues, and that is why we have the manual the
02:16:27 way it is today and why we have the areas of the city that
02:16:33 you have different requirements depending on where you are
02:16:35 in the city.
02:16:36 We chose areas for planning purposes that we wanted to have
02:16:40 a much easier time to allow to redevelop, what were then the
02:16:46 transit corridors, and areas mostly South Tampa, and some of
02:16:52 the north and New Tampa areas that really continued to
02:16:55 develop in a manner consistent with more or less
02:17:00 environment, so what Cathy is trying different areas of the
02:17:03 city and how we treat different areas of the city, that's
02:17:05 the reason behind why certain areas have higher obligations
02:17:11 and certain areas don't have as much of an obligation to do
02:17:13 a study.
02:17:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That wasn't my question.
02:17:16 My question was, I understand in terms of we are looking at
02:17:19 the appendix 2, which is a no study look-up table.
02:17:23 When you say something like, I have got a general retail
02:17:26 store, and I want to add more space to it, only that space
02:17:33 is going to trigger a study itself.
02:17:36 >> And that part of it as well, yes.
02:17:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: What I am asking is when you jump from one
02:17:42 land use to another within that table, isn't that a
02:17:45 differential enough to make a difference?
02:17:48 Because hear is the thing.
02:17:50 If I am a service station, you know, one pump will cause to
02:17:57 look at it the traffic impact study.
02:18:00 If I went to a service station to, let's say, I don't know,
02:18:02 a general restaurant or general retail merchandise, why is
02:18:07 that not a different trigger?
02:18:13 >>JULIA MANDELL: Because this is a kind of concurrency
02:18:16 analysis, or if you are not doing a concurrency analysis,
02:18:19 how are you going to mitigate that?
02:18:20 So we don't look at the trips of a gas station or a retail
02:18:25 establishment.
02:18:26 You use the table to say this type of establishment has this
02:18:30 many trips, which in this other type of establishment would
02:18:32 equal a different type of trip, and anything over and above
02:18:35 that, that existed, so the use doesn't really mean anything
02:18:40 in this context, it's how the number -- it's all about car
02:18:44 trips, numbers of trips, and whether or not the number of
02:18:47 trips is an increase.
02:18:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And I want to make sure I am correct.
02:18:52 So for land use purposes, we don't really care about --
02:18:59 >> For mitigation purposes.
02:19:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The number of trips in a different use, no
02:19:04 matter where they are at, either next to each other or not
02:19:08 doesn't matter.
02:19:11 So you can have a bunch of high impact uses next to each
02:19:15 other, all the way through with no particular issue to
02:19:18 trigger the impact studies -- excuse me, trigger the --
02:19:24 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you are coming in to change the use on
02:19:25 a property or reuse a particular parcel of property in
02:19:28 another way, you look back on how many trips were previously
02:19:32 generated by that use, and whatever is above.
02:19:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hang on, hang on.
02:19:39 You just said it doesn't matter about the land use.
02:19:41 The trip studies are going to be different based on land
02:19:43 use.
02:19:44 >>JULIA MANDELL: But the use is used to determine the
02:19:48 number of trips.
02:19:50 But you are not looking at it from retail to gas station.
02:19:55 You are looking at a number of trips of retail versus number
02:19:57 of trips to gas station.
02:19:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: For purposes of my hypothetical -- and I
02:20:10 think you heard it, correct? -- it doesn't matter how many
02:20:13 more trips are generated by this new use versus what was the
02:20:17 old use, correct?
02:20:19 >>JULIA MANDELL: It matters the number of new trips.
02:20:24 If the intensity changes more trips generated --
02:20:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I think from a lay man's perspective, it
02:20:33 seems like having a big box store where something used to be
02:20:36 a new car dealership will automatically create more trips.
02:20:41 Whether or not it is within our table, I don't think, is an
02:20:44 arguing point.
02:20:44 I think most everyone in this room and probably everyone in
02:20:47 the world will agree to that.
02:20:49 Again, if it's not something that is going to trigger it
02:20:53 because of the way our rules are set up, I understand that.
02:20:56 But --
02:21:00 >>JULIA MANDELL: Yes, you are going to have more trips than
02:21:04 a big box or a big some kind of dealership, but that's not
02:21:10 the way we look at this, because this is based upon -- I
02:21:15 don't want to say concurrency analysis because it's really
02:21:17 not concurrency, but it's based upon looking at cars in,
02:21:22 cars out at certain times, and sometimes while we think
02:21:26 intuitively that wouldn't make sense, it's the way you have
02:21:28 to analyze these issues under the state law, under our
02:21:31 comprehensive plan, and now under our regulations.
02:21:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
02:21:37 So I'm sorry, one last thing.
02:21:38 So you are saying that because of this particular ruling
02:21:44 that we have within our own guidelines, it doesn't really
02:21:47 matter that the number of trips and the use, if they are in
02:21:52 that impact area, they can get it done administratively, it
02:21:55 does not come to council at all, because I have got to tell
02:22:01 you, it does seem a little silly, if we don't go from use to
02:22:06 use because what good is having a transit study if it's not
02:22:09 really studying what's actually going to happen, not what
02:22:12 used to happen, you know.
02:22:13 It doesn't make sense to me.
02:22:15 >> But the obligation that you get on the other side for
02:22:17 purposes of mitigation have to be based on an increase in
02:22:20 intensity.
02:22:21 How you determine that increasing in intensity for this
02:22:23 purpose is based on number of trips.
02:22:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I got what you said.
02:22:27 It doesn't make sense from a layman's perspective.
02:22:30 And I'm more layman than anything else.
02:22:33 >>JULIA MANDELL: I understand the that.
02:22:35 This is confusing stuff.
02:22:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'm not confused.
02:22:40 I got it.
02:22:43 This recall doesn't make any sense.
02:22:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There's another layer that's missing.
02:22:48 If you using to generate those trips and give credit for the
02:22:51 old one, you look at what's above it.
02:22:53 But that's not where you stop.
02:22:55 The next thing you do is you look at what the level of
02:22:57 service is, if the roads are actually going to access.
02:23:01 You have to keep that in perspective.
02:23:04 Whether or not there's capacity available on that roadway.
02:23:07 If we have level of service capacity on that roadway -- if
02:23:11 you have a big box store, yes, compared to another type of
02:23:13 use, it may be more intense.
02:23:16 It may generate thousands of more trips.
02:23:19 If you keep it at that one dimensional, yes, if it makes
02:23:23 sense, you have to do something, except the road network
02:23:28 that you are accessing, if you are not making that or not
02:23:33 seriously diminishing that capacity, then there isn't
02:23:36 anything else to do.
02:23:37 That roadway has already been designed and built a certain
02:23:40 way.
02:23:40 >> And then I go back to my original point.
02:23:43 It doesn't really matter, the use.
02:23:45 It doesn't take that into consideration.
02:23:51 (multiple conversations).
02:23:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mrs. Coyle, I understand that.
02:23:55 That's the end result of it.
02:23:57 Thank you, chair.
02:23:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Mr. Suarez.
02:23:59 I got Mrs. Montelione, Mrs. Capin and Mrs. Mulhern.
02:24:03 >> Did you want me to go through the rest of this?
02:24:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's one of the things I was going to
02:24:10 ask you to do, and I will make one comment.
02:24:12 And I believe Mrs. Coyle had said before, the change of use
02:24:18 does matter, but it's one of the criteria dependent upon
02:24:26 other criteria.
02:24:29 So if the use changes, that's one of the criteria.
02:24:33 The next criteria is, is the difference in the number of
02:24:37 trips from what was generated before to what will be
02:24:41 generated by the new use, that's a second criteria.
02:24:46 That space in between the number of trips.
02:24:54 The third criteria is the road, the additional trips that
02:24:57 cause that road to fail.
02:25:00 The change of use is one of the criteria. It isn't the only
02:25:04 criteria.
02:25:05 And in some cases the change, from my experience, the change
02:25:09 of use may not trigger the analysis, because the other two
02:25:14 criteria were threshold criteria. In some case it is change
02:25:20 of useless trying -- trigger the analysis because the change
02:25:23 has triggered the other two benchmarks.
02:25:30 >> It's not a one way thing.
02:25:32 >> We are trying to say the same thing in different words.
02:25:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And to keep in the perspective for 2011
02:25:40 under the general that we had for decade, it wouldn't have
02:25:46 mattered if that big box store was on Hillsborough or south
02:25:49 Dale Mabry.
02:25:54 So we were a blanket concurrency exception area for
02:25:58 transportation throughout the city, and we literally just
02:26:01 looked at site impacts for mitigation.
02:26:03 That's it.
02:26:03 >> There's actually more.
02:26:09 >> I was going to ask you to continue with the rest of the
02:26:14 presentation, going through the additional criteria, because
02:26:16 I think that's going to also add light and clarity.
02:26:20 But there's a thought in my mind that I don't want to
02:26:23 suggest, I'm under the impression, I haven't heard this
02:26:29 concern, but that we are looking at changing from a
02:26:34 transportation impact fee to a mobility fee.
02:26:38 Similar to what they have done in other jurisdictions.
02:26:42 Has the county gone that way or not?
02:26:46 I think they are talking about it.
02:26:48 >> Generally across the board.
02:26:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So when we are talking about the
02:26:53 transportation impact fee exemption areas, talking about
02:27:00 impact fee, this, that or the other, keep in mind that we
02:27:03 may be changing from a transportation impact fee to a
02:27:06 mobility fee, at some point in the fairly necessary future?
02:27:11 I'm getting confirmation of that.
02:27:13 So I don't want to spend a whole lot of time going through
02:27:15 the transportation impact fee when in short order we may not
02:27:18 even have that.
02:27:21 So.
02:27:24 >> So the active exemption areas, and it gives you a good
02:27:28 perspective, but as you look geographically, there are large
02:27:34 areas of the city that don't have to pay an impact fee.
02:27:37 But there are systems set up in areas that have not
02:27:41 traditionally had a lot of development.
02:27:44 >> The same reason like we have enterprise zones.
02:27:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mrs. Capin and Mrs. Mulhern.
02:27:51 Cal.
02:27:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And we definitely should look to other areas
02:27:54 on guidance on where they are heading so that we can follow
02:27:58 suit.
02:28:00 You know, I think what I should do is make a motion to not
02:28:07 bring this up until April 16th, 2015.
02:28:14 [ Laughter ]
02:28:15 >> It's your motion, Mr. Reddick.
02:28:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I know the summer recess is long
02:28:30 but I didn't know it was that long.
02:28:32 Mrs. Mulhern.
02:28:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
02:28:36 When I was talking to Mrs. Coyle the other day about this, I
02:28:41 said the exact same thing that Councilman Suarez just said,
02:28:45 that using the same comparison of a car lot being turned
02:28:51 into a big box store, and the good thing was she told me
02:28:54 that there are other jurisdictions that have actual
02:29:04 ordinances that have big box stores.
02:29:05 So since you offered that, I hope you will come back to
02:29:09 maybe see if there are some examples in Florida of cities or
02:29:13 counties that have specific ordinances to do that.
02:29:17 Because I think this came up because of that WalMart.
02:29:22 I mean, I just looked at this transportation manual just
02:29:25 now, and it's hard to process at all, and all the exemptions
02:29:31 and all the mitigation versus traffic impacts.
02:29:37 I know we discussed WalMart before, we were told that they
02:29:40 didn't have to do a traffic analysis, they only had to be
02:29:45 concerned with their ingress and egress.
02:29:50 And that real life situation makes no sense.
02:29:55 So if there's something we can do about -- and I think
02:29:58 about, you know, some of the areas we have already that are
02:30:01 in that imaginary transit corridor that we are hoping to
02:30:05 have some day.
02:30:07 Dale Mabry, we have got Walters crossing with ten big box
02:30:14 stores there, whatever.
02:30:16 We want in-fill development.
02:30:17 But I don't really think that a city like this, big box
02:30:23 stores, should be encouraged and given incentives and not
02:30:30 have to, you know, pay their fair share for the traffic
02:30:35 impacts they are going to have.
02:30:36 So if you could come back with some examples.
02:30:45 >> Mrs. Mulhern and I were talking.
02:30:51 Specifically, I mentioned big box.
02:30:54 There are designed standard, big box stores, and the
02:30:58 question was -- and I was going to follow up with Mrs.
02:31:01 Mandell about it -- is whether or not regardless of the
02:31:04 gee-graphical areas, the corridors, when you have a big box,
02:31:07 something above a certain size like that, whether or not
02:31:10 there could be an additional criteria for a study, I haven't
02:31:13 had a chance to go over it yet, but it's something I could
02:31:16 certainly talk to her about.
02:31:18 >> So impact fee no impact fees for those.
02:31:31 For USF, they are all required to mitigate their
02:31:34 transportation impact through their master plan agreement.
02:31:36 They actually have full agreements on what's going to happen
02:31:40 and they have already done that work ahead of time.
02:31:51 He traffic impact analysis mitigation plan, but they again
02:31:54 must mitigate site access impact.
02:31:57 So this is a map that's in the manual.
02:32:02 And the green and the red corridors, which are Florida,
02:32:08 Nebraska, Hillsborough, Martin Luther King, and looking at
02:32:15 the rest, the red line is what is the metro rapid, the
02:32:20 east-west, north-south line.
02:32:22 So those are the primary transit corridors only to mitigate
02:32:26 the site impact.
02:32:27 Then the green ones, the primary transit corridors.
02:32:34 Comprehensive plan vision map, and transit with them on
02:32:40 certain levels of development potential.
02:32:42 But you can see a lot of the corridors to the north, and
02:32:49 then there is some major east-west connecting the airport,
02:32:54 Kennedy is the only one having an east-west, and I had this
02:32:59 portion of Dale Mabry.
02:33:01 None of the other corridors in the peninsula actually get
02:33:04 that free pass of the transit corridor.
02:33:09 You can see that if you were trying to -- if you are trying
02:33:12 to get an exemption, or have to mitigate site impact
02:33:16 regardless of the use, regardless of trips, if you cross
02:33:18 over that threshold, from the no impact study, if you are in
02:33:23 South Tampa, short of Kennedy and that portion of Dale
02:33:26 Mabry, you may very well have to do some type of study,
02:33:31 depending also on the level of service of the road, the
02:33:36 capacity that's available.
02:33:40 The next, I have already glossed over slightly.
02:33:44 These are the actual study types.
02:33:46 There are four study types based on the generation of the
02:33:50 proposed development, and the capacity and performance of
02:33:52 the impacted roadways.
02:33:55 These studies with the minimum determination, that's the
02:33:58 table that you were talking about, we look at that table.
02:34:02 That's the first study.
02:34:04 We look at what actually generates the numbers to figure
02:34:07 that out.
02:34:08 The second level, and it's tiered, get a little more
02:34:11 detailed as you go out.
02:34:15 Adjacent critical intersection analysis, as a non-failing,
02:34:20 noncritical roadway above a level of service fee equals trip
02:34:24 impact of a 2% level of service of capacity.
02:34:28 The second part of failing roadway, critical roadway, low
02:34:33 level service and trip impact of 1% of the level service D.
02:34:39 But there's not a lot of subjective anything in this.
02:34:42 It's always numbers of the program that actually sit down,
02:34:47 work on the methodology, traffic engineer, she gets those --
02:35:00 so we have software that use it as well so it's all very
02:35:03 detailed, quantitative analysis.
02:35:08 The next level, if you don't qualify for this and you don't
02:35:13 qualify for the adjacent one, you may require to do the
02:35:17 impact network analysis, the noncritical, 5% of that level
02:35:22 of service fee capacity.
02:35:26 These are more capacity on level of service road that's
02:35:30 already low.
02:35:31 And then the project 2% of that capacity for a lower service
02:35:39 fee.
02:35:39 And then the last study, which is the most enhanced, and
02:35:42 that's why it's called enhanced, you are going to be a lot
02:35:46 more intersections, a lot more detail, and that is the
02:35:51 impact analysis.
02:35:52 So the next question is what does the analysis yield?
02:35:54 It yield the mitigation payments, which is you can put in
02:36:00 the proportion of fair share contributions.
02:36:02 So whatever your impact is as a development, it's going to
02:36:06 generate a certain number of dollars for your share of what
02:36:11 an improvement would need to be.
02:36:13 If the project is providing additional traffic in making
02:36:16 that movement fail, as an example, let's say the development
02:36:20 comes in that's making a left turn fail, then they would
02:36:26 have to pay for that additional impact.
02:36:27 So they would have to correct for that left turn lane.
02:36:31 Next is mitigation versus transportation impact fees,
02:36:35 mitigation is used within the impact fee area that can be
02:36:42 used for intersection improvement, and is much more
02:36:48 flexible.
02:36:49 But the impact fees, as far as numbers that have been
02:36:53 adopted by ordinance, that money can only be used for
02:36:58 capacity improvements.
02:36:59 So it's within that boundary of the impact fee zone, and
02:37:02 they can only be used for capacity improvements, which
02:37:05 essentially is an additional three lanes, but not through
02:37:09 lanes.
02:37:09 You have to keep traffic moving, create additional capacity
02:37:13 with those.
02:37:13 And what Mrs. Montelione was asking, about the mobility fee,
02:37:22 you can use it for one thing.
02:37:25 It doesn't just has to be for improving capacity.
02:37:31 A lot of jurisdictions are moving to that.
02:37:33 I know we are looking at it as well.
02:37:35 I'm available for any questions.
02:37:37 Melanie can answer any specific questions.
02:37:45 We can certainly do examples if you need any hypotheticals.
02:37:48 >>HARRY COHEN: Come up M.A.P. Capin.
02:37:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I for one will not ask any questions until
02:37:53 April 16, 20715.
02:37:55 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone that wants us to a address us before
02:38:02 then?
02:38:05 We are going to go to public comments if everyone is ready
02:38:09 for that.
02:38:09 We'll go ahead and do that.
02:38:10 >> Most of you do not know me.
02:38:16 >> We need your name.
02:38:26 >> Okay, I'm gonna give it to you. Rob Searcy, president of
02:38:29 United Cab Company, one of your larger cab services in the
02:38:33 area.
02:38:36 The subjects are more of kind of getting to know us, mainly
02:38:39 because we haven't appeared before you in awhile, okay?
02:38:46 30 years with a transportation group in Orlando, Executive
02:38:49 vice-president, been with United Cab Company for four years
02:38:51 as their president.
02:38:52 By past history, I am the ex-president of the International
02:38:56 Taxi Cab Delivery and ParaTransit Association, about a 2,000
02:39:01 member, several hundred thousand vehicle organization.
02:39:08 We, just by way of setting up, we are ones that give the
02:39:13 trips to the people who are impacting your study here, okay?
02:39:17 And we are considered kind of a quasi public utility, as a
02:39:21 result of the 24 hour 365 service we give to areas, not only
02:39:28 Tampa but Hillsborough County.
02:39:29 We make over 4 million trips a year, and do about 14 million
02:39:33 miles a year.
02:39:35 We are not exactly the biggest but we are close to the
02:39:38 biggest.
02:39:38 Yellow Cab is bigger than us, so you need to kind of double
02:39:41 those numbers to see how we impact your transportation.
02:39:47 We are regulated by the PTC and the city deferred that
02:39:50 regulation to the PTC back in '76 under your consolidated
02:39:56 plans, special district at that point in time.
02:40:00 Under that regulation, the public service, public safety is
02:40:05 served very well, but unfortunately, one of the reasons I'm
02:40:07 here today is to make you aware of the situation, and
02:40:12 getting ready to ask for your support not only through your
02:40:16 mayor, but also through your direct support in protecting
02:40:19 the public in the City of Tampa.
02:40:24 All these regulations, background checks, insurance
02:40:26 requirements, fees, inspections, safety inspections, so
02:40:30 basically we are asking for a level playing field.
02:40:34 We have two operators that have come into your city and the
02:40:37 county, and that's Uber and Lyft, and they are operating out
02:40:43 there without proper insurance, no background checks, and I
02:40:46 would ask that you enroll your support to the PTC employees
02:40:50 and thank you for your time.
02:40:54 Any questions?
02:40:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No questions.
02:40:56 I'm just going to make a statement on my own, as one council
02:41:00 member.
02:41:01 We do have a PTC board.
02:41:03 They regulate all of them.
02:41:04 It's up to them to make those decisions.
02:41:06 And I know I have been reading about it in the paper and on
02:41:08 the media and this, that and the other.
02:41:10 I'm not asking for a debate.
02:41:12 I'm just making a statement.
02:41:14 It's up to that board and those attorneys to do whatever
02:41:16 they feel.
02:41:17 That's what that board was set up originally for, not us,
02:41:20 not the county commission, and any others that don't have
02:41:22 any direct vote on these issues.
02:41:25 Next.
02:41:25 >> Thank you, sir.
02:41:26 >> I've been coming up here a lot today. My name again is
02:41:35 Rick Fifer, from Seminole Heights.
02:41:36 Not to get into a particular brand name box store, okay?
02:41:44 But the city process when it comes to transportation, and
02:41:51 that's the straw that broke the cam back.
02:41:54 I probably should have taken more planning classes when I
02:41:57 was getting my MBA.
02:41:58 But it was approved without an impact on the residential
02:42:01 streets.
02:42:03 15th street was not studied.
02:42:07 The traffic count by the study that I have read generates
02:42:12 way more than 100 vehicles coming out in the proposed study,
02:42:17 and the site, 15th street.
02:42:22 That's by their study.
02:42:24 You have seen all this before.
02:42:26 But nothing was done, because all they focused on was
02:42:29 Hillsborough Avenue.
02:42:30 Not 15th street.
02:42:31 Not 19th street.
02:42:33 And council, you guys voted to vacate Mohawk for their
02:42:38 driveway to come out onto 15th street.
02:42:43 The neighborhood also got notice plans.
02:42:45 And I am not opposed to development, which is why I did not
02:42:49 mention the name.
02:42:49 I didn't want anybody saying that was the issue.
02:42:51 It's not the issue.
02:42:53 I lived in Seminole Heights for 20-some years.
02:42:58 I want my neighborhood redevelopment.
02:43:00 But I want it to develop in a way that we can all live with,
02:43:04 and not something that's going to make people want to leave
02:43:07 it again.
02:43:09 Which happened when the interstate went through long before
02:43:12 I got here.
02:43:12 Thanks very much.
02:43:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much, sir.
02:43:15 Next, please.
02:43:16 Mrs. Capin?
02:43:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Mrs. Coyle, please help me here.
02:43:24 Refresh my memory.
02:43:27 Did we vacate Mohawk?
02:43:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think it was vacated a very, very long
02:43:36 time ago.
02:43:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We did not vacate Mohawk.
02:43:40 That statement was made --
02:43:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are right, Mrs. Capin, I believe
02:43:43 that's a street that runs all the way across the middle of
02:43:48 the road to the parking lot.
02:43:54 This city council did not vacate.
02:43:56 >> Not this particular one, no.
02:44:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
02:44:01 Thank you.
02:44:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry.
02:44:03 >> What I learned before was while it was previously vacated
02:44:13 the city street had not yet been paved, and in the
02:44:18 development of that process the division of the fees that
02:44:21 needed to be addressed was addressed.
02:44:23 And you are correct in the sense that this City Council did
02:44:26 not waive that notice.
02:44:33 I think the level of service, the number of trips per day,
02:44:36 and the way of the process as it stands, as a resident, and
02:44:48 for the Old Seminole Heights neighborhood association.
02:44:52 Because Seminole Heights has four, three, four of the roads
02:44:59 that we are talking about that are subject to the exemption
02:45:02 that allow for some reduction in the requirements for
02:45:10 traffic study, and when we are utilizing the traffic studies
02:45:17 that are generated by the Florida Department of
02:45:21 Transportation, the roads that are not roads,
02:45:30 In the perspective of moving traffic from one place to
02:45:32 another, making sure traffic moves smoothly.
02:45:37 That's in direct conflict oftentimes to the communities with
02:45:41 which those roads exist when it comes to public safety and
02:45:48 pedestrian and bicycle safety.
02:45:51 Our design process does not address the steps necessary to
02:45:58 communicate with the communities of what we would like to
02:46:04 see happen, have in order to protect their citizens.
02:46:10 As an example, what we talked about in this particular
02:46:13 project, we have been hypothetically referencing all
02:46:16 afternoon, that, you know, when you have an entrance to a
02:46:20 large retailer in the middle of a block with crosswalks two
02:46:25 blocks away, opposite directions, you are setting yourselves
02:46:30 up to have the pedestrians not make it across the six-lane
02:46:35 highway.
02:46:36 And so it's important in our process that if we have
02:46:42 exemptions from city streets that allow for not only the
02:46:46 neighborhood to be respected but also design that allows for
02:46:52 pedestrians to have as part of a community, that we relook
02:46:56 at those exemptions that mitigate or do not necessarily
02:47:01 address pedestrian traffic.
02:47:03 Thank you.
02:47:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:47:07 Next, please.
02:47:07 >> Good afternoon. David nabuzzi, 1211 East cumberland
02:47:17 avenue, Tampa.
02:47:22 I'm specifically going to talk about the United Cab on the
02:47:28 issues.
02:47:29 But I am going to be talking about the state law that's on
02:47:34 the books as we speak.
02:47:37 Anyone with vehicles for hire must pay the insurance.
02:47:44 And that's a state law.
02:47:46 At the same time, it is a law also that in order to pick up
02:47:53 somebody for hire, get them paid, you have to have a
02:47:56 background check, which is crucial, okay.
02:48:02 Nobody allowed to be on the street picking up passengers for
02:48:08 fee.
02:48:09 Maybe that's different than, you know, the city and the
02:48:13 county shouldn't have responsibility to enforce the state
02:48:20 law, and asking to throw it out.
02:48:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again I want to refer back, and maybe the
02:48:30 legal department, Mrs. Mandell, Mrs. Coyle.
02:48:38 What he's asking is about the enforcement of a state law
02:48:41 regarding fees and pickup services.
02:48:43 And again, my personal opinion is that's what the PTC was
02:48:49 for.
02:48:49 >>JULIA MANDELL: Yes.
02:48:53 What he's speaking about as well as the gentleman prior, not
02:48:56 just prior, that's within the jurisdiction of the public
02:48:59 transportation commission.
02:49:01 This board has no jurisdiction over for-hire services on
02:49:06 taxi services, et cetera.
02:49:08 That is all within the purview of the public transportation.
02:49:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Mandell, don't go away.
02:49:16 Thank you.
02:49:21 What I'm understanding is that in some ways looking for the
02:49:29 Tampa Police Department to enforce a traffic violation of
02:49:32 someone not having the proper insurance for operating on the
02:49:39 streets of the city.
02:49:40 So I understand the role of the PTC, and I think
02:49:45 commissioner Crist, who is the chair of the PTC, is looking
02:49:49 to make some adjustments of how it operates.
02:49:54 >>JULIA MANDELL: Although I have heard rumors, that there's
02:50:02 a request of this city and of Tampa Police Department, not
02:50:06 just the Tampa Police Department, and I can't speak to what
02:50:12 the request is, only what I have read in the transcripts, so
02:50:16 I don't know what the letter is ultimately requesting, those
02:50:20 law enforcement agencies to do, to assist PTC with
02:50:24 enforcement.
02:50:25 Since I haven't seen the letter, I have read the transcript,
02:50:28 I haven't seen the letter, I have been looking at their
02:50:31 regulations.
02:50:32 It's really hard for me to make any additional comments on
02:50:35 that or to give any legal advice on that without having the
02:50:38 benefit of seeing the letter, and in addition having the
02:50:41 opportunity to discuss these matters with the Hillsborough
02:50:44 County attorneys office which represents the public
02:50:46 transportation commission.
02:50:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All I would ask is that, you know, about
02:50:53 public safety, obviously, and if you could continue to
02:50:57 monitor what -- and I know you always do, but formally
02:51:02 requesting that you continue to monitor how that decision
02:51:07 and the affect of the state law, in conjunction with PTC,
02:51:15 how we play a role, how the Tampa Police Department and
02:51:18 other jurisdictions are handling this issue of proper
02:51:24 insurance for the safety of our citizens in the City of
02:51:28 Tampa.
02:51:29 I mean, it was a much larger question.
02:51:31 I know they are looking at it all over the country.
02:51:34 I know that some states, some jurisdictions have taken very
02:51:38 polar opposite positions.
02:51:40 >> And I have been monitoring it and will continue to
02:51:45 monitor it.
02:51:46 As soon as I have an opportunity to be able to have that
02:51:49 conversation with council members, I would be happy to.
02:51:51 Thank you.
02:51:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
02:51:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you very much, chair.
02:51:55 Let me just say for the record that Councilwoman Capin and I
02:52:00 both serve on the PTC, and we have been discussing this
02:52:04 issue by the PTC for a while.
02:52:07 But just for Councilman Montelione's information as well as
02:52:12 the city attorney, the PTC just sent a letter out to all the
02:52:16 local law enforcement chiefs saying Chief Castor received
02:52:21 one, as well as Tampa Police Department chief, all received
02:52:27 a letter just within the last few days, requesting that they
02:52:30 assist in monitoring and going after those two companies who
02:52:36 are violating the law in Hillsborough County, as well as the
02:52:41 State of Florida.
02:52:42 And so the PTC is on top of this, and they are working very,
02:52:47 very hard to negotiate with both these groups, and one has
02:52:54 not been cooperative, and one has been willing to talk.
02:52:57 So we are on top of this issue.
02:53:01 And I think those who serve on this board are not at liberty
02:53:07 of discussing it here, but I just can say for the record
02:53:10 that within the last few days, every law enforcement agency
02:53:14 in this county, including the University of South Florida
02:53:18 police department, received a letter requesting their
02:53:21 support.
02:53:24 I just wanted to state that for the record.
02:53:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, I am the vice chair of the PTC, and I
02:53:30 have served on that board for four years.
02:53:36 That is correct.
02:53:36 That letter has gone out.
02:53:39 Again, this is a public forum.
02:53:41 And as the gentleman stated, the main concern is the
02:53:46 insurance liability for the public that is writing not only
02:53:56 the two companies that he mentioned but anyone else, anyone
02:54:00 else.
02:54:01 And my understanding is that than -- and maybe it will be
02:54:05 brought up in the letter of the I have not seen the letter.
02:54:08 But that -- oh, great, I lost my train of thought -- that we
02:54:20 will -- we will -- oh, the director, the new director of the
02:54:28 PTC made it very, very clear.
02:54:31 One company is very easy to identify because they wear a
02:54:35 mascot or something on the car.
02:54:37 The other company, he said, is also very easy to identify.
02:54:40 It is not a matter of hunting around.
02:54:43 It's a matter -- the PTC themselves can identify these cars,
02:54:49 and again it is the law, and that's what I believe is going
02:54:54 to be asked.
02:54:56 And I should be seeing that letter very shortly.
02:55:00 Thank you.
02:55:00 >> Anyone who wants a copy of that letter, my office can
02:55:07 provide that to you because we have the letter.
02:55:10 Thank you.
02:55:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next.
02:55:18 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
02:55:21 I won't name the name of the store, but I mentioned it to
02:55:25 you previously.
02:55:27 I know that according to the rules, nothing could be done
02:55:31 about it being allowed, no transportation study being done.
02:55:44 According to what we have been told had a lot of capacity on
02:55:47 it.
02:55:48 So onto Swann.
02:55:54 When you are only a quarter of a block to where their
02:55:57 parking lot is to Dale Mabry, that made a tremendous impact
02:56:02 on Swann in both directions.
02:56:06 All I'm asking council, to me -- to me that store is like
02:56:12 the big box, the big boxes, but maybe you have to look to
02:56:16 see if a store like that is a specialty store that's going
02:56:20 to draw traffic from many areas around you and not just the
02:56:25 local neighborhoods, that a regular grocery store would
02:56:30 attract.
02:56:31 So if there's any possibility of maybe coming up with
02:56:34 another category that you might want to look at, having more
02:56:41 study done when you approve them, because from what I'm
02:56:46 understanding, they had already asked others to grant them
02:56:49 permission to park their employees in other place as round
02:56:57 there and now have agreement with -- I think they mentioned
02:57:00 a store across the street that they would allow their cars.
02:57:07 I don't know if that's an agreement they have that's doing
02:57:09 it.
02:57:10 But you talk about Jay walking.
02:57:11 And there's a lot of that going on right in the middle of
02:57:14 all of this.
02:57:15 The other thing that it has caused is the local traffic, and
02:57:27 causing that back-up.
02:57:29 So council, I think you know the storm I'm talking about.
02:57:32 So please in the future maybe have a special category for
02:57:37 that certain study.
02:57:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
02:57:42 I don't know.
02:57:42 Maybe you could call that destination retail or something.
02:57:46 There might be a name for that.
02:57:49 I was going to make a motion, because I understand that
02:57:55 staff would be able to do this, that they draft some
02:57:59 language to -- I don't know how they say this -- regulate,
02:58:05 require transportation studies from big box stores, and at
02:58:12 the same time maybe we can look at -- I think we need to
02:58:16 look at this list a little closer and see if we can tighten
02:58:20 it up, because it seems like everywhere that we already
02:58:24 have, even though the roads may not be failing, the places
02:58:28 that we have a lot of traffic are always exempted.
02:58:32 So I think we need to further down the road look at how we
02:58:36 can tighten it up.
02:58:37 But my motion right now is for them to draft the language to
02:58:41 deal with requiring big box stores, however that's going to
02:58:46 be defined, to be required to do the kind of traffic
02:58:50 analysis that goes beyond just the street that they park but
02:58:55 the surrounding streets, and the impacts they are going to
02:58:58 have on the area's traffic.
02:59:01 >> I'll second.
02:59:06 And then I have a point of discussion.
02:59:09 >>HARRY COHEN: I wanted to comment on Mrs. Vizzi's comment.
02:59:15 We all do know the store at the intersection that you are
02:59:19 talking about at Dale Mabry and Swann.
02:59:21 I think that what is difficult, both with the application of
02:59:26 something like what Councilwoman Mulhern just proposed and
02:59:30 also the problem that you are bringing up, is that there is
02:59:40 a subjective piece of it that is going to be very difficult
02:59:43 for us to regulate.
02:59:45 Because the reality is that there are some stores that by
02:59:50 their very nature are just extremely popular at one time or
02:59:57 another and the profile of what goes on in them is
03:00:00 completely different from everyone else that is the same
03:00:03 size, and similarly situated.
03:00:07 While I understand, and sort of partially supportive of the
03:00:13 motion on the floor, my concern is that there's still no way
03:00:18 of differentiating between what's going to cause the traffic
03:00:26 backup and truly what's not, because what we have seen is
03:00:31 that it oftentimes depends on who the retailer is, and
03:00:35 there's no way for us to -- there's no way for us to tailor
03:00:39 our regulations around that piece of it.
03:00:42 I don't know what the answer to this is.
03:00:45 But I think it's a problem that we have to overcome in
03:00:49 dealing with this question, because I dare say there's an
03:00:53 awful lot of other stores that sell exactly the same
03:00:56 products that would have exactly the same footprint and
03:01:00 would not create anywhere near the amount of traffic.
03:01:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, before we vote, I want to listen to
03:01:14 the public.
03:01:14 I know you seconded the motion.
03:01:15 But I was asked not to take the vote until the public has a
03:01:20 chance to speak on item 6.
03:01:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Let me give you a quick example of how
03:01:29 the transportation enforcement that you all are trying to
03:01:32 tighten goes wrong.
03:01:34 And I know that your intentions are to try to control
03:01:37 certain aspects.
03:01:39 But you may recall what happened to Cappy's in Seminole
03:01:45 Heights when they had to go for a rescoping and then an
03:01:48 alcoholic beverage license that was terribly expensive for
03:01:51 them.
03:01:51 In order to be able to back into the right-of-way and to
03:01:54 keep the parking that they had that existed in the
03:01:57 right-of-way.
03:01:59 The regulations are complex.
03:02:01 And it doesn't favor anyone.
03:02:03 And I know that you all think that somehow because the big
03:02:07 box came in, they got a special favor of some kind.
03:02:10 It is expensive, and it is very time consuming to figure out
03:02:14 how to position a project whether it's instill or whether
03:02:19 it's a retrofit for an existing building.
03:02:22 It's not easy.
03:02:24 And the technical standards do not discriminate against
03:02:27 anyone.
03:02:29 So one of the things that I would ask the council to look at
03:02:32 is the rule that prohibits parking on the right-of-way, and
03:02:38 perhaps to look at that rule, and either relax it in some
03:02:43 cases or waive it entirely except where it's prohibited.
03:02:46 And the second part is to allow parking to back into the
03:02:50 right-of-way where you have existing parking that already
03:02:53 backs in the right-of-way, and one of the third things is to
03:02:59 eliminate the prohibition against parking at all in the
03:03:04 right-of-way.
03:03:05 There are three elements.
03:03:06 One is backing in the right-of-way, parking in the
03:03:10 right-of-way, and parking at all in the right-of-way.
03:03:12 All three things are not allowed under technical standards.
03:03:16 And what happens with in-fill projects is that when you
03:03:19 routinely go into the Construction Services Center, the
03:03:22 first thing that happens is you have to take them off the
03:03:27 plan, and that exacerbates the problem with developed areas
03:03:31 like South Howard, like Florida Avenue, and some of the
03:03:35 other ifs.
03:03:36 MacDill, there's a number of places where you have
03:03:38 existing parking.
03:03:42 It took over a year to get the city to agree to allow the
03:03:45 parking of Davis Island to remain so now the commercial
03:03:51 center on Davis Island, it doesn't have any parking except
03:03:55 it is in the right-of-way, and back to the right-of-way.
03:03:58 So look very carefully at your code before you start making
03:04:01 changes.
03:04:01 And I would ask that you consider making motions on those
03:04:04 three elements of the code that currently cause problems.
03:04:09 So, anyway, that's all.
03:04:11 Thank you.
03:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
03:04:12 Anyone else?
03:04:14 And let me say -- and I want to echo something that Mr.
03:04:17 Cohen said -- you never know who is going to be successful,
03:04:21 who is not going to be successful.
03:04:24 You built a 62,000 seat stadium and it's only half full.
03:04:30 I'm not talking our stadium.
03:04:32 I'm just talking in theory.
03:04:34 You put the ball stadium in another place, you build a
03:04:46 hospital for 200 beds, and all of a sudden you got a 1,000
03:04:50 bed hospital, and nothing happened there because they are a
03:04:54 hospital.
03:04:54 So something along the line, something is wrong.
03:04:58 And I appreciate everything that's said from that side and
03:05:01 from this side.
03:05:02 We have to take a close look at this and work something out
03:05:05 that's feasible.
03:05:06 We want the area to grow.
03:05:07 We want our kids to stay here. We want things to happen.
03:05:11 But the traffic that we have -- and I said it before -- it
03:05:15 used to be my wife and I driving.
03:05:17 And it was my wife's, I and three kids, and it's just I, my
03:05:22 three kids and six grandkids, or five grandkids that are
03:05:25 driving.
03:05:26 So without bringing anyone in, my family is responsible for
03:05:31 a lot of increased traffic and S so is everyone else here.
03:05:35 So the problem is right here in this room and right here in
03:05:38 this city that we are growing, as we mature, and the young
03:05:43 crowd comes up, and everybody drives at 16.
03:05:47 You know, where I come from in Ybor City you couldn't drive
03:05:50 to 30 because nobody had money to buy cars.
03:05:53 And now things have changed.
03:05:54 At 16 you get a new car.
03:05:56 Not new but new to them.
03:05:58 And that's the problem that we have.
03:06:00 And it's hard to fix.
03:06:03 All right.
03:06:03 Anyone else in the audience care to speak that has not
03:06:07 spoken?
03:06:07 I go to Mrs. Mulhern's motion.
03:06:09 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
03:06:10 Discussion?
03:06:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
03:06:12 And I think part of what we started talking about was this
03:06:17 table, the no-study look-up table, and looking down the
03:06:22 table, I don't know, Mrs. Mulhern said I don't know exactly
03:06:25 how you would couch this, you know, call it a big box, you
03:06:27 know, exception type of language, but looking at the table,
03:06:33 a big box would typically have four of these -- five of
03:06:39 these categories all rolled into one.
03:06:42 So you are looking at the retail general merchandise, the
03:06:45 high turnover restaurant, fast food, supermarket,
03:06:48 convenience store, and be maybe that's the way to include
03:06:57 some language or revise this table where a big box would be
03:07:01 defined as something of having all of these elements and not
03:07:05 looking at a singular unit and square footage addition.
03:07:12 Does that make sense?
03:07:13 So I'm thinking that it's the table that maybe needs to have
03:07:16 that revision.
03:07:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This table, obviously it was put into
03:07:24 the document by us.
03:07:26 We wrote it.
03:07:27 But this information is generated built ID manual.
03:07:31 These classifications, this is not an exhaustive list.
03:07:34 If you actual lit went into the latest manual, each study
03:07:38 classification is in be there.
03:07:40 What you don't see on here is the discount super center.
03:07:43 There is actually a classification.
03:07:45 So the longer use and manual is Wan we referred to but not
03:07:49 in impact -- so the super scepter for 1,000 square feet
03:07:54 generates X amount of trips.
03:07:55 So these numbers are what they are.
03:07:57 What your policy decision is, what is acceptable as a de
03:08:01 minimis level?
03:08:03 Is it 1700 trips?
03:08:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So what you are saying is the big box,
03:08:11 Mrs. Mulhern mentioned, the big box criteria is already
03:08:14 there and part of this table?
03:08:17 >> It's already studied by IT and generates certain trips,
03:08:21 and it's in this table and the larger table.
03:08:24 But that's only whether or not it falls under the threshold.
03:08:28 What Mrs. Mulhern was getting to was specifically the old
03:08:31 classification we had as a large scale commercial
03:08:34 development understood one of our older ordinances.
03:08:43 It literally generates a certain percentage of the level of
03:08:46 service on that street.
03:08:48 >> I still second the motion.
03:08:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And that's something that we can explore
03:08:57 how to fit that back in here regardless of corridor or
03:09:00 anything else.
03:09:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is a hospital exempt from this?
03:09:09 [ Laughter ]
03:09:17 I didn't get an answer to that.
03:09:19 >> Seriously, understood that definition, if we have a
03:09:25 broader definition of that large scale development,
03:09:28 regardless of the use again, regardless of the use of
03:09:30 whatever the trips that are generated, and what percentages
03:09:34 of that is of the capacity available on the roadway.
03:09:38 It could be a hospital.
03:09:39 It could be a big box.
03:09:40 It could be whatever.
03:09:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Before you sit down, could you come back
03:09:50 with that on July 31st?
03:09:55 >> I'm turning 40 a few days before that and I mate not be
03:09:59 here.
03:09:59 I might be in mourning.
03:10:04 The week after.
03:10:05 >>MARY MULHERN: August 40.
03:10:09 >> That's my daughter's fourth birthday.
03:10:14 [ Laughter ]
03:10:16 No, it's fine.
03:10:19 I don't have to bring it forward.
03:10:21 Mrs. Kert can bring it forward.
03:10:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
03:10:28 Coming back August 20, the year 2014 under staff reports.
03:10:32 August 28th.
03:10:34 Understood staff reports.
03:10:37 Okay.
03:10:38 Thank you very much.
03:10:39 Item 6 is completed
03:10:40 We go to item -- all in favor to approve this?
03:10:47 Motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
03:10:49 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
03:10:50 Please signify by saying aye.
03:10:52 Opposed nay.
03:10:53 The ayes have it unanimously.
03:10:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 2015.
03:11:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 7.
03:11:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These are the City Council initiated
03:11:09 amendment.
03:11:09 And throughout the last six to eight months, someone made a
03:11:12 different motion to move into this cycle.
03:11:16 These are before you today, and I included on the front
03:11:19 page -- just by way of background, Cathy Coyle, planning and
03:11:25 development.
03:11:25 I did meet with the planning committee last night and I
03:11:29 talked to people over the last few weeks about these
03:11:31 amendments as well, how they were transmitted last week to
03:11:34 the agenda.
03:11:43 I delivered hand copies -- hard copies.
03:11:47 This is the motion.
03:11:51 And then the workshop to discuss the amendments.
03:11:55 What I did, just as a general reminder, gave you possible
03:11:59 actions, and I described this to the people at the T.H.A.N.
03:12:03 meeting last night, too, just as a gentle remainder to
03:12:06 everybody.
03:12:07 You are not approving an ordinance, you aren't passing
03:12:09 language or anything.
03:12:10 You basically have four different things you can do today.
03:12:13 You can take an individual amendment and if you like what's
03:12:16 written and are ready to move forward with it you can take
03:12:19 the motion to transmit to the Planning Commission as is.
03:12:23 You can take an individual amendment and make any changes
03:12:26 and transmit to the Planning Commission.
03:12:28 Do that all by one motion.
03:12:29 You can pull out an individual amendment and say, now what?
03:12:32 We need more time to think about it and continue it to a
03:12:34 later date to a later discussion.
03:12:36 Or option 4 is just to remove it because you don't want to
03:12:39 do it anymore.
03:12:40 These are the basic four things that are on the table.
03:12:49 And on page 2, just for the record, these are tables where
03:12:53 they are broken down with a title amendment 1.
03:12:55 It includes the agenda.
03:12:58 It was originally discussed and a motion that was made.
03:13:01 And then below that is the language actual.
03:13:06 Amendment 1 was specific to increasing additional animals
03:13:10 and household and the permit was for animal rescue.
03:13:19 So the assistance animals.
03:13:21 As a remainder we did update all the animal regulations.
03:13:29 And to be considered an animal that counts, six months or
03:13:31 over.
03:13:32 So puppies and kittens under six months of age don't count
03:13:35 against the number.
03:13:36 What also doesn't count against the number are chickens --
03:13:48 sorry, Mr. Reddick.
03:13:53 [ Laughter ]
03:13:53 The other animal, that doesn't count against it, is fish.
03:14:02 You can have more than four fish in an aquarium.
03:14:05 We won't GOP in and count them and cite you.
03:14:10 That's something that came up at the T.H.A.N. meeting.
03:14:12 So I want to make it clear.
03:14:14 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Reddick, how do you feel about fish?
03:14:18 >> Goldfish, you know.
03:14:20 So the motion council made was directing me to change it
03:14:23 from four to eight.
03:14:24 And that's what's before you.
03:14:25 You can take these individually, if you want to make a
03:14:28 motion to transmit, if you want to discuss it.
03:14:31 >>HARRY COHEN: I remember that discussion.
03:14:33 Is there anyone here that wishes to talk about that now or
03:14:36 should we go ahead and transmit it?
03:14:38 >> I don't know if you want to hear from the public.
03:14:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Eight animals.
03:14:46 It doesn't include fish or chickens.
03:14:50 >> And hear from the public on each one as well.
03:14:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Keep going through so we can hear from the
03:14:58 public.
03:14:58 Why don't we see if there's anyone in the that would like to
03:15:01 speak just on this item number 1.
03:15:02 And then we can move it through.
03:15:06 And to be clear, it was animals, four permanent, four
03:15:16 rescue?
03:15:25 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
03:15:26 And as Cathy said we did have an extensive meeting with her
03:15:29 last night, the zoning committee did.
03:15:34 And we agreed that we wanted to make it strongly clear,
03:15:37 though, that this is because we understand all those other
03:15:45 issues can still be addressed.
03:15:46 For example, if all those regulations would protect them.
03:15:58 We did support it.
03:15:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
03:16:00 Is there anyone else in the public that wishes to speak on
03:16:02 just this item number 7?
03:16:09 Okay.
03:16:09 Can I hear a motion to transmit and we can --
03:16:12 >> So moved.
03:16:14 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilman Suarez.
03:16:16 Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione to transmit item number
03:16:19 1.
03:16:19 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:16:22 Opposed?
03:16:23 All right.
03:16:24 So we are going to move on now to item number 2.
03:16:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Proposed amendment 2 came up during the
03:16:30 area rezoning for Seminole Heights area, and City Council
03:16:35 directed me to broaden to the full menu essentially of
03:16:39 residential building forms.
03:16:40 So what you have before you is the list of residential
03:16:43 building forms.
03:16:47 I added the language that enhanced boundary shown on 21.1,
03:16:53 shall include any residential buildings set forth, in C
03:16:57 above.
03:17:07 The original map had a variation of colors like the areas
03:17:10 around.
03:17:12 This is a boundary of Hampton Terrace.
03:17:15 And they all wanted to be able to be able to pick from the
03:17:20 menu.
03:17:20 I did present that at the Seminole Heights land use
03:17:23 committee which is a merger of the three in the group.
03:17:30 Four groups.
03:17:31 Sorry.
03:17:32 Four groups.
03:17:34 I did get an e-mail back from a lady by the name of Gayle
03:17:39 Davis, and acknowledging essentially she was ready to move
03:17:46 forward.
03:17:46 Thanks for doing it.
03:17:49 So as I have also heard from the resident of the Seminole
03:17:51 Heights area, they may want to move forward with additional
03:17:54 changes for the rest of the area.
03:17:56 I don't think they want to hold this particular one up but I
03:18:01 told them I would work with them on the rest of the area as
03:18:04 well.
03:18:04 I believe they are here to speak.
03:18:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move the transmittal.
03:18:09 >> Seminole Heights land use committee.
03:18:21 The community is supporting what they want in there.
03:18:24 It's a little broader than the neighborhood overall wants.
03:18:26 But yes, Cathy is correct.
03:18:28 We will be coming with some other changes.
03:18:30 We are trying to work with her to kind to be sensitive to
03:18:35 the neighborhood.
03:18:36 We are supporting it.
03:18:37 >>HARRY COHEN: Is therein anyone else in the public that
03:18:39 would like to be speak on the proposed amendment number 2?
03:18:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: So moved.
03:18:49 >> Second.
03:18:49 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mr. Reddick and throw
03:18:55 second, which we will give to the Councilwoman Capin.
03:18:58 All in favor?
03:18:59 Opposed?
03:19:00 Okay.
03:19:00 Item number 3.
03:19:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item number 3.
03:19:03 A couple of pieces here.
03:19:05 The first that was made addressing us to put a 12-month hold
03:19:10 on temporary alcohol permits at locations that were denied
03:19:16 for permanent approvals.
03:19:18 We did have some situations where people were denied for
03:19:20 certain use and then coming in and doing a not-for-profit.
03:19:25 So City Council was hearing about it.
03:19:29 The motion was made asking us to put a hold on that.
03:19:32 What I did specifically was carve out if one is denied,
03:19:40 administrative alcohol permit.
03:19:41 If we deny it there's a 12 month hold if council denies it
03:19:45 there's a 12 month hold.
03:19:47 Just different two processes in the code.
03:19:49 I want to make sure it was covered.
03:19:50 The top is addressing the permits that are denied.
03:19:55 2-D which is the next paragraph down, it's something that I
03:20:00 added.
03:20:02 Then use two permits in this process.
03:20:04 The special use 2 permit, you will notice it's just like a
03:20:08 rezoning.
03:20:09 So you get a drive-in window and other things that come at
03:20:14 night, the site plan required, everything else.
03:20:16 So the process itself has been trying to clean up little
03:20:19 peaces of it over time.
03:20:21 The one piece is missing when you mirror the rezoning
03:20:25 language process to special use.
03:20:27 The rezoning process has the requirement of the appearance
03:20:30 by the applicant.
03:20:32 The special use 2 doesn't have it, even though it's treated
03:20:35 the same.
03:20:36 So I'm adding this in to make sure the language -- the
03:20:40 applicant has to be here, in other words.
03:20:42 It's the exact same language with 27.150.
03:20:46 I corrected the outline requirements, or shall outline of
03:20:52 the letters.
03:20:53 And there's he there's the 12 month old.
03:20:56 This language also mirrors the rezoning language that is
03:20:59 there's an F-2 denied.
03:21:01 There's a 12-month hold.
03:21:03 However, if there is a code amendment that eliminates the
03:21:07 criteria or whatever it is they were denied for, they come
03:21:11 in for an S-2, not for alcohol.
03:21:14 It could be anything really.
03:21:15 Any S-2.
03:21:16 They come before you and are denied because they don't meet
03:21:20 one of the criteria.
03:21:21 Two months later council proposed a criteria not in the code
03:21:26 anymore.
03:21:27 The reapplication could be lifted because the code has been
03:21:30 amended.
03:21:31 They have the ability just to come and ask again.
03:21:33 It is not like a reconsideration.
03:21:35 That's what I want to make clear.
03:21:39 If they get denied in the 12 months, even at the end of the
03:21:42 12 months, or if the 12 months is removed or reduced, they
03:21:48 still pay the application fee, even though it's a whole new
03:21:51 process.
03:21:52 They have to start over.
03:21:53 So it isn't just coming automatically asking to be reheard.
03:21:57 So this process here, actually this language mirrors 27
03:22:00 .150.
03:22:01 That's what I noted in the table as well.
03:22:03 So now you have the S-2 process and rezoning process pieces
03:22:08 looking more similar.
03:22:10 They are treated the same when they come here.
03:22:12 The cost is the same but the language didn't quit identify
03:22:15 correctly between the two.
03:22:16 So we have been kind of cleaning that up and making sure
03:22:19 that the time frames are the same.
03:22:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Comments or questions from come up members?
03:22:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Would you put that back on the screen?
03:22:37 This is number 3 we are talking about.
03:22:40 And when I look at the backup that I have in number 3, I
03:22:43 can't readily get to the page that you have right there.
03:23:00 Wait, that's number 2.
03:23:01 Number 3 here.
03:23:07 This is exactly as the it was on the clerk's Web site.
03:23:16 >>HARRY COHEN: I think everyone is going to have to look on
03:23:27 the screen.
03:23:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It's in the order exactly as it was
03:23:31 posted on the Web site.
03:23:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It might be the proposed amendment number
03:23:43 6 which I believe might be Mrs. Kert's memo that she had
03:23:46 done.
03:23:47 I'm not sure.
03:23:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This says e-mail, Catherine Coyle,
03:23:51 pertaining --
03:23:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If it's not in the --
03:23:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, I understand.
03:23:59 I'm sorry about that.
03:24:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So back to what we were saying.
03:24:03 So the issues that I have, I mean, we live with some of it.
03:24:07 And I have a little bit of hesitation on other parts of it.
03:24:11 And going just down the page, the first thing that I have a
03:24:17 little bit of a problem with.
03:24:18 I understand the problem with, you know, our denying an S-1
03:24:22 and then people having this nonprofit every weekend, so they
03:24:26 can sell alcohol.
03:24:28 That's a problem.
03:24:28 And it need to stop.
03:24:30 I get that.
03:24:32 But to have a moratorium for an entire year I think is a
03:24:38 little too onerous.
03:24:41 I mean, six months if it's, you know, three months so it's
03:24:47 quarterly.
03:24:48 I might not have a problem with that.
03:24:50 But when you are talking about, you know, nonprofits and
03:24:54 fund-raisers and looking for places to host things.
03:25:03 I think, you know, limiting them with a 12-month moratorium
03:25:07 must be a little too long.
03:25:09 So, you know, I would just like to be see a shorter time
03:25:12 period better than 12 months.
03:25:15 >> It was council's direction on how long you would like to
03:25:19 see that if at all.
03:25:20 >> Aligning it with other sections of the code and making it
03:25:28 more streamlined, I think 12 months is a little too long for
03:25:34 me.
03:25:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You know, since we rezoned most of our
03:25:42 parks, for alcoholic beverage permitted, yes, I can see
03:25:49 that.
03:25:50 We have weekly events downtown with alcoholic beverage.
03:25:54 Weekly.
03:25:59 Those have to go through the same process?
03:26:02 They have to get a special permit?
03:26:05 Or they don't because we have zoned the park -- Curtis Hixon
03:26:14 has a special use permit.
03:26:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, legal department.
03:26:21 I think there are two different issues, but those are only
03:26:28 allowed to get -- those are allowed to get temporary permit.
03:26:35 You can't even ask for a temporary permit.
03:26:38 So the list that I think you are asking about that we just
03:26:41 added a bunch of part to is only for temporary.
03:26:44 The only one that has currently already received a special
03:26:50 use permit, an alcoholic beverage, special use permit -- it
03:26:55 gets confusing because --
03:27:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It was Curtis Hixon.
03:27:03 Thank you for clarifying that.
03:27:05 -- clarifying that.
03:27:08 I agree that 12 months is a bit of an extension.
03:27:11 This is why we need to look at and we can do it in April
03:27:15 15th of 2015, and we need to look at our events
03:27:21 permitting, and this is part of the whole process.
03:27:23 So thank you for that.
03:27:24 That's all I have to say.
03:27:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
03:27:30 Mrs. Mulhern?
03:27:31 >>CHAIRMAN: If you want to reduce that time, what do you
03:27:34 want to reduce it to?
03:27:41 I didn't hear that.
03:27:42 Three months.
03:27:43 >>HARRY COHEN: We have to hear from the public.
03:27:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: So under B-1-D, instead of 12 months it's
03:27:55 a period of three month from the date of denial in the
03:27:57 three-month period.
03:27:59 That's what you are asked about.
03:28:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the public care to speak on
03:28:04 this?
03:28:08 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
03:28:11 Of course, we reviewed it.
03:28:17 But I want to clarify something.
03:28:19 Are you talking about on the parks?
03:28:21 I thought it was anyone who came in for an alcoholic
03:28:25 beverage.
03:28:29 I mean, is three months a pretty short length of time then?
03:28:35 Because any other zoning, I think if you deny it, they can't
03:28:39 come back for a year.
03:28:41 So why would alcoholic beverage, if they still haven't
03:28:46 requested the reasons that you denied it for, they would be
03:28:49 able to come back.
03:28:53 We supported it the way it was.
03:28:58 As I sat and listened that's why it came to my mind, only
03:29:02 three month.
03:29:02 If they could back every three month with no correction from
03:29:09 your denial, but we didn't know you were looking to change
03:29:17 it.
03:29:18 Thank you.
03:29:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience?
03:29:26 All right.
03:29:27 Maybe yes, maybe no.
03:29:31 You have made a motion to --
03:29:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can I have the reference?
03:29:42 Okay.
03:29:43 Thank you.
03:29:44 I got it now.
03:29:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: B-1-Z.
03:29:51 >> Strike 12 months, and replace that with three months.
03:30:01 124 motion by Mrs. Montelione.
03:30:03 Second by Mr. Reddick.
03:30:05 Discussion?
03:30:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Application for temporary alcohol and
03:30:17 beverage sales.
03:30:19 It's not whether or not they can come back, an establishment
03:30:26 of beer and wine wants to come in and have whatever society
03:30:36 that would be looking to a fund-raiser and they ask for
03:30:41 temporary to sell alcohol, they can come in and ask for a
03:30:43 temporary for alcohol.
03:30:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A location comes before you to ask --
03:30:59 asking for bar/lounge and they get denied.
03:31:03 If they get denied, then for a 12-month period, or three
03:31:07 months if it's amended, they cannot ask for a temporary
03:31:11 alcohol permit.
03:31:13 For not for profit.
03:31:14 There is also an additional hold for 12 months to come back
03:31:20 already in the code, to come back and ask over again.
03:31:26 Not temporary but the bar/lounge.
03:31:29 That is already in the code.
03:31:30 So this is specifically adding a provision that they can't
03:31:33 ask for temporary when a permit is denied.
03:31:40 So 12 versus 3.
03:31:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin?
03:31:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Would the maker of the motion consider three
03:31:51 times a year which would be every four months?
03:31:56 Three instead of four times a year.
03:32:03 Four months, not every three month.
03:32:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, she said four.
03:32:06 >> Quarterly means every three month.
03:32:14 Four times a year.
03:32:15 I meant quarterly.
03:32:17 It just an easy thing to keep track of.
03:32:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could interject.
03:32:21 You are not creating a new process to grant the number of
03:32:24 permits on a cycle.
03:32:26 You are just -- it's like one number.
03:32:32 How many months do you hold for no permits for temporary?
03:32:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Looking for three.
03:32:40 >> I said three.
03:32:42 She said four.
03:32:43 >> I meant four.
03:32:48 We are on the same page.
03:32:50 So every four.
03:32:52 >> Four.
03:32:54 >>> Let me get this straight.
03:33:06 If this bar, this establishment, fails on a permit or can't
03:33:11 get a permit to open up the regular establishment is a
03:33:14 regular establishment, but yet you are going to let them
03:33:16 have temporary parties in their place when their restaurant
03:33:21 or bar isn't approved to be a regular bar?
03:33:23 Is that what I am hearing?
03:33:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me tray to answer.
03:33:34 In the past -- and they have worked on this, and they have
03:33:37 resolved 99.9% of it -- you would have an operation of some
03:33:43 sort of alcohol, and you were cited, and you were coming up
03:33:47 to the closure date, or to a date of penalty, what they
03:33:52 would do was create a 501(c)3 and get daily permits.
03:33:57 And I believe it could be spoken to.
03:34:00 And I'm sorry, I missed your point because I was having two
03:34:03 conversations at once.
03:34:04 >> My point was that if the bar was not capable of being
03:34:10 open as a bar on a regular basis, how can you guff them a
03:34:13 permit?
03:34:15 >> She brought it up because that did happen to us a couple
03:34:20 years ago and here is where we are at.
03:34:22 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
03:34:23 At the current time, in this moment, that is exactly what
03:34:27 can happen.
03:34:30 If somebody is denied and come back and asking for the same
03:34:32 thing.
03:34:33 You don't have a prohibition from them coming back and
03:34:36 asking for something different.
03:34:37 That's why they have the ability to come in and get the
03:34:40 temporary permits, which do have some limitation as to how
03:34:43 many, that just a not-for-profit can get, it can add up.
03:34:50 It was brought to our attention, and Mrs. Coyle came up with
03:34:53 a proposal as directed by City Council.
03:34:55 So what was before you is to prevent someone who was denied
03:35:00 a permanent application from coming in and asking for a
03:35:03 temporary for a period of time, and that is you are
03:35:07 discussing what that period of time before they can come
03:35:09 back and ask for something different, which would be the
03:35:12 temporary.
03:35:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Get that?
03:35:19 Mrs. Montelione?
03:35:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was just asking -- Mr. Shelley by had
03:35:24 brought up something.
03:35:25 So there is a further clarification that I think we should
03:35:28 also make.
03:35:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The clarification is once every -- three
03:35:32 times a year or every four months.
03:35:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
03:35:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can't come back every week and ask
03:35:37 for it.
03:35:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You can't make an plugs every day in
03:35:41 between.
03:35:41 >>REBECCA KERT: That's not what this is.
03:35:45 What this is saying is you cannot come back and ask for the
03:35:48 temporary for a period of time.
03:35:50 You have three months, or a year.
03:35:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Which is what Mr. Shelby --
03:35:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The question is what happens after the
03:35:58 three months is up?
03:35:59 It's not to come back quarterly.
03:36:02 It's after the three months of the 12 months what is the
03:36:04 question.
03:36:04 >>REBECCA KERT: After that period of time, three month,
03:36:10 four months, a year, but depending on what the plan that you
03:36:15 pick, they can come back and ask for a temporary permit as
03:36:20 allowed under the code.
03:36:24 And that is three times a year per not for profit.
03:36:32 So they would be treated like any other establishment.
03:36:34 The only time period that's different is the period of what
03:36:37 we are going to call the abatement.
03:36:39 After that, they are treated like any other property, and if
03:36:42 they are allowed understood the code, like their next door
03:36:45 neighbor, to have --
03:36:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I think trying to do what we would
03:36:53 like to accomplish is two things.
03:36:54 I would like it to change it to three month or four months
03:36:57 or whatever we decide on.
03:36:59 Let me put it this way.
03:37:00 I would like to see something shorter than 12.
03:37:03 And then under this once a year abatement period has passed,
03:37:08 put a limit on how many times after the three months they
03:37:12 can come in and ask for the nonprofit temporary permit.
03:37:17 Because we don't want to return to the same situation where
03:37:20 they are asking as Mr. Shelby pointed out to me, you know,
03:37:25 three nonprofits can do three -- because I don't have the
03:37:32 section in front of me.
03:37:33 >> That is a separate amendment that we haven't even
03:37:36 discussed because it's under the temporary permit portion of
03:37:39 the code.
03:37:40 >> So it sound like we have top do two things.
03:37:42 We passed the abatement period today.
03:37:44 >> Reason why we chose 12 months to begin with was because
03:37:48 of the situation that we were facing, you had a property
03:37:51 owner and a tenant that trade to keep the business going.
03:37:54 But the longer the abatement period that you had, the more
03:37:58 likely the person is going to move on.
03:38:01 >> But it would have unintended consequences as well.
03:38:04 And what I am trying to differentiate is to try and not have
03:38:11 those unintended consequences.
03:38:13 Because the unintended consequences would be that we have
03:38:16 nonprofit itself, captain have the fund-raisers that they
03:38:19 are used to having as frequently as they are used to having
03:38:21 them because they don't have anyplace to go.
03:38:25 It's not a lot of places that will host fund-raisers for
03:38:29 nonprofit because it's not a money maker for their business.
03:38:31 >> We issue a hundred per year.
03:38:35 >> I'm sure.
03:38:36 But in a city this size with the amount of nonprofits we
03:38:39 have, 100 per year is not a big number.
03:38:43 >> Also not a lot of locations, to be honest.
03:38:46 Dealing with locations that are denied.
03:38:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But if they can serve beer and wine and
03:38:54 we deny them for alcohol.
03:38:56 >> Liquor.
03:38:57 >> Liquor.
03:38:58 So it's not we are say we are saying that they can't serve
03:39:02 anything at all.
03:39:03 We are just adding the ability to serve alcohol, not just
03:39:06 beer and wine.
03:39:07 You know, the subtleties.
03:39:09 So I think that we need to also amend the permit process for
03:39:19 temporary permits.
03:39:20 That's the other piece that we are not addressing here.
03:39:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Our numbers mirror state law for that
03:39:30 license.
03:39:30 It matches the license.
03:39:31 The temporary not for profits can pull three licenses per
03:39:35 year within the City of Tampa.
03:39:37 So each individual not for profit, even if we did 20 permit,
03:39:42 they can only get three actual licenses from the state.
03:39:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But that's the nonprofit, not the
03:39:50 establishment.
03:39:51 So what I am trying to say is we need to also regulate the
03:39:55 establishment so they don't have eight nonprofits coming in
03:40:03 every week, or every month, because then we haven't fixed
03:40:06 the problem.
03:40:10 Do you follow what I'm saying?
03:40:11 I mean, regulating the state, and we are both regulating the
03:40:15 nonprofit, but not the establishment.
03:40:16 >> Our temporary permits are not by location, by not for
03:40:21 profits, because the original reason you talked about women
03:40:23 and locations.
03:40:25 We do three not for profits and general requirement, don't
03:40:32 tell you where it happened because there are churches, that
03:40:35 have very large festivals throughout the year, and then they
03:40:38 have one or two not for profits under the umbrella of the
03:40:41 church but they have seven or eight events at that location.
03:40:43 Or they may host another not for profit as their property.
03:40:47 The difficulty with limiting numbers by location, as well as
03:40:53 it the not for profit,
03:41:05 I mean, if some call, whether it's a religious hall, or a
03:41:15 veterans hall, or, you know, whatever, comes in and wants to
03:41:20 apply for an alcohol you can beverage and we deny them
03:41:23 because they don't have the parking or they don't have some
03:41:26 element of what they need to meet the requirement, because
03:41:30 they have been in an old building, which a lot of the
03:41:34 churches or halls or things of that nature, then we are
03:41:40 saying, well, you can't even have a fund-raiser for the next
03:41:43 12 months.
03:41:44 So --
03:41:45 >> Well, if the American Legion comes in and asks you for a
03:41:54 new alcohol permit to be a bar because they want to change a
03:41:56 bar, is no longer an American Legion, and you deny it, then
03:42:00 the possibility of having not for profits is in question for
03:42:03 that time frame.
03:42:03 But this is on a denial.
03:42:05 This is not just stopping people from getting a temporary
03:42:10 permit at a location.
03:42:13 That's not the intent.
03:42:15 When you deny, basically.
03:42:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mr. Cohen and Mr. Suarez.
03:42:18 >>HARRY COHEN: After listening to all of this, I think -- I
03:42:26 I'm not going to support it if we shorten it.
03:42:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
03:42:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And the reason why she was very succinct and
03:42:38 clear that this is based on denial, getting the temporary
03:42:42 permit, not based on a new application, correct?
03:42:47 It will be an application for a temporary.
03:42:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Right.
03:42:52 We are mixing --
03:42:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And if I recall correctly when we first
03:42:55 discussed this amendment, it was specifically about those
03:42:59 bad actors that were out there that were going out and
03:43:01 getting nonprofit status or nonprofit groups coming in there
03:43:05 and making it a nonprofit event when in fact -- I think 12
03:43:12 months is fine.
03:43:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
03:43:17 Mrs. Mulhern and Mrs. Capin.
03:43:18 Well, who hasn't spoken?
03:43:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I haven't.
03:43:25 I'm with the guys on this one.
03:43:30 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All I have to say is that where we talk
03:43:38 about regulating, and hear we are, nonprofits, we are
03:43:45 keeping them from being able to raise funds, for 12 months,
03:43:54 because, again, you know, what we discussed earlier today,
03:43:59 what we have right hear before us, were regulating
03:44:05 nonprofits to not be able to come before us, apply for 12
03:44:12 months, if they are denied.
03:44:13 >> You're adding a stop than on a location that has been
03:44:21 denied for permanent permits.
03:44:23 It's indirectly telling the not-for-profits you can't go top
03:44:26 this place.
03:44:27 But it's the one place.
03:44:28 It's not city-wide.
03:44:29 They can still a apply any where else in the city that has
03:44:33 not specifically been denied a permit, for a permit
03:44:36 location.
03:44:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, what's the difference between that
03:44:40 and -- okay, I understand now.
03:44:45 I'm sorry.
03:44:47 I confused one with the other.
03:44:49 >> No problem.
03:44:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
03:44:52 And we don't regulate the amount of money -- we don't even
03:44:56 check on the amount of money.
03:44:58 They can give 50% to the nonprofit or something less,
03:45:03 whatever the deal is.
03:45:04 We don't get involved with that, do we?
03:45:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Proceeds go to the not for profit but
03:45:12 it's through the licensing of the state that it's actually
03:45:15 checked, because we mirror their language.
03:45:17 So --
03:45:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think anyone checks.
03:45:20 >> I withdraw my motion.
03:45:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion is withdrawn.
03:45:25 Mrs. Mulhern, would you care to speak?
03:45:28 .
03:45:29 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I already did.
03:45:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There is a motion with to withdraw by the
03:45:33 maker and seconded by the seconder.
03:45:36 There's a motion on the floor to transmit.
03:45:38 Motion made by Mr. Cohen.
03:45:39 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
03:45:40 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying yay.
03:45:43 Opposed nay.
03:45:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
03:45:45 The clerk has asked me for a five-minute recess.
03:45:48 And I can understand her feeling.
03:45:51 We stand in recess for five minutes.
03:45:55 (City Council recess).
03:46:06 >>
03:46:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
03:57:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
03:57:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
03:57:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
03:57:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
03:57:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
03:57:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 8.
03:57:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, 7-4.
03:57:49 The documents are a little smaller in front of you right
03:57:52 now.
03:57:53 So you have on page 4 is amendment 4.
03:58:04 This one is a little confusing.
03:58:14 >> That is not difficult to do here.
03:58:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The amendment is not difficult.
03:58:18 It's the motions as you walk through them.
03:58:20 Originally you asked me to come forward in January of this
03:58:22 year to talk about central business district, and looking at
03:58:25 easing up on some of the permits and the rules for that.
03:58:31 And I brought forward at that time the general incidental
03:58:33 sales for downtown and the channel district where
03:58:37 potentially you could have like one of those places where
03:58:43 you have someone who serves on-site for consumption but they
03:58:46 also want to tell you a bottle of wine.
03:58:48 Right now administratively you can't mix the. Two you have
03:58:50 to be either on-site only or package sales only.
03:58:54 So the motion was only from January, and offer up a solution
03:58:58 to allow that to mix in the downtown area only.
03:59:02 So general incidental sales for downtown and Channel
03:59:05 District.
03:59:06 Going back and reading through the transcript, everybody
03:59:10 liked it including the public.
03:59:11 There wasn't a specific motion to actually make that
03:59:14 amendment.
03:59:18 The two motions below that which you read them together and
03:59:22 what the transcript kind of cancels the second one out.
03:59:25 So that's why the amendment itself is very straightforward.
03:59:29 The gist of the two motions was to look at restaurant hours
03:59:35 of operation, and the outside amplified sound, the time
03:59:41 frame, and alignment.
03:59:43 The second motion dealt specifically was allowing outdoor
03:59:47 amplified restaurant, locational criteria, and size
03:59:53 requirement.
03:59:54 I think the rules for alcohol are very specific.
04:00:03 Denneys does not sell alcohol because it's a 24 hour
04:00:07 restaurant.
04:00:07 When you sell alcohol at your establishment you have to stop
04:00:10 all business transactions when you stop selling alcohol,
04:00:13 unless you are an exempt use.
04:00:15 And the exempt use is the grocery store, a WalMart,
04:00:19 7-Eleven, shoppers goods, community stores, hotel.
04:00:22 International only three things.
04:00:23 So with sound and restaurants and other things, it's very
04:00:29 straightforward.
04:00:30 The amendment is very simple.
04:00:33 Off special restaurant at the bottom of the page, which is
04:00:37 number 5, and that's current code on the left side.
04:00:44 And throughout the city just to remained council and the
04:00:48 public because I was asking in a different conversation, the
04:00:53 special restaurant, only if you meet these criteria, you
04:00:56 have to close at 11:00 Sunday through Wednesday and 1:00
04:00:59 Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
04:01:01 There are two exceptions to that rule that allow you to
04:01:04 follow the code which is 3 a.m.
04:01:06 Within the central business district, and then when the
04:01:10 amendment came forward, the alliance did ask to be included
04:01:13 as an exempt area so they are included, the motions that are
04:01:19 included in the downtown, and other business center,
04:01:22 Westshore, those two areas follow the code hours.
04:01:25 But everywhere else in the city is 11 and 1.
04:01:28 The next piece of that is that's no outdoor amplified music
04:01:33 after 11:00 unless you are in a large scale commercial
04:01:36 development, of 500 that you square feet or more, not
04:01:39 including residential office.
04:01:41 So it has to be a true commercial center.
04:01:44 Like a mall.
04:01:45 So if you are in one of those things, one of those gigantic
04:01:49 establishments, you can have outdoor amplified sound after
04:01:53 11.
04:01:53 But if you are not in one of those, then there are only two
04:01:56 locations in the state that qualify outside.
04:01:59 If you are not within one of those you have to stop outdoor
04:02:03 sound by 11:00, period.
04:02:05 What was directed is within the special restaurant, to align
04:02:08 those hours.
04:02:10 Because operational hours and sales hours for restaurants
04:02:14 have to be the same by code, they can't differentiate, what
04:02:19 really occurred out of those two motions is striking letter
04:02:23 C.
04:02:23 So letter A deals with hours of operation and that's 11 and
04:02:27 1.
04:02:28 Letter C was outdoor amplified music till 11.
04:02:32 But really, like I said, if you align the hours you can
04:02:36 strike letter C.
04:02:38 You are allowed to have your outdoor amplified sound at the
04:02:40 same time.
04:02:42 What happened also was Ybor City actually asked to be
04:02:45 included, to be treated the same as downtown.
04:02:47 And I did include the Channel District because of the
04:02:50 original discussion, looking at downtown, the Channel
04:02:53 District.
04:02:54 So really, at this point, at your discretion is whether or
04:02:58 not you want to keep separate hours for outdoor amplified
04:03:01 sound, if you want to allow Ybor to be included, the same as
04:03:05 downtown, and the Channel District which was part of the
04:03:08 original discussion, and if you recall from the January
04:03:10 meeting, I had also proposed changing the word music to
04:03:14 sound to make sure it covered all amplified sound.
04:03:18 And then I did have one more minor change just to outline.
04:03:22 It's an A and it should be a 17 as outlined in the code and
04:03:26 then a B and a 2.
04:03:27 That was just a correction of the outline.
04:03:30 That's what it is on this page.
04:03:31 Proposed amendment 4 is actually only page 5 as well.
04:03:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe there's a question by Mrs.
04:03:36 Mulhern.
04:03:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't really have a question.
04:03:38 I wanted to speak to that, what you talked about.
04:03:44 You can finish up.
04:03:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Page 5 is the extra portion of amendment
04:03:49 4. There's no substantive change other than the fact I did
04:03:52 change music to sound just to make it consistent throughout.
04:03:55 And I added the number for the actual number 1,000 next to
04:03:59 the word 1,000, because we always have the word with the
04:04:04 numbers and for some reason or another -- there's no change
04:04:08 to the criteria. They are what they are.
04:04:11 So I am available for any questions.
04:04:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Actually, I do have a question.
04:04:17 So right now, special restaurant, outdoor amplified music is
04:04:24 limited to 11 p.m.
04:04:27 >> That's right.
04:04:28 >>MARY MULHERN: And you want to change to the go with the
04:04:30 hours.
04:04:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, you want to change it.
04:04:34 [ Laughter ]
04:04:35 You directed me.
04:04:36 I didn't actually propose the amendment.
04:04:38 That's why it got a little confusing when you want to read
04:04:40 the top of the page because I didn't come forward to discuss
04:04:43 it.
04:04:43 I was here on a different topic.
04:04:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not in favor of that.
04:04:47 And I also -- the two of us who live in South Tampa, I don't
04:04:52 know if you were in town, but a few weekends ago, Raymond
04:04:58 James had this --
04:04:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Oh, yes.
04:05:00 He got calls, too.
04:05:01 >>MARY MULHERN: It was unbelievable.
04:05:05 And I got an interesting e-mail, someone who said, you
04:05:10 should look into our noise ordinance to see if we can
04:05:15 regulate the dates, because that's really what it was.
04:05:22 It was blatant noise.
04:05:24 Very good deejay concert.
04:05:27 I think we should look into that somewhat, how we can -- you
04:05:32 know, I'm not saying that they shouldn't necessarily be able
04:05:36 to have concerts there, since that's the only time I
04:05:38 remember that ever happening.
04:05:40 But that must have been horrible for your neighborhood when
04:05:46 they have concerts.
04:05:47 I can't imagine.
04:05:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Welcome to southwest Tampa.
04:05:55 >>MARY MULHERN: But Rebecca, could we look into that if
04:06:03 there's a way to regulate the bass part of it?
04:06:09 What I really want to say is I don't want to change the
04:06:11 hours.
04:06:12 I am not in support of it.
04:06:13 And I heard that from many, many constituents.
04:06:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mrs. Montelione.
04:06:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to address the one thing
04:06:22 about Raymond James stadium, and I think Mrs. Kert would
04:06:25 probably jump in and explain it, Mrs. Kert, can we regulate
04:06:31 the sound coming from Raymond James stadium, the "Tampa Bay
04:06:33 Times" forum or any other large sports venue, Busch Gardens,
04:06:39 any of those places?
04:06:40 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
04:06:41 My first statement is we are in litigation on the noise
04:06:45 ordinance so I don't want to get into a lot of discussion
04:06:48 about it.
04:06:48 You do have discretion of sporting venues.
04:06:53 Maybe we can discuss it at another time.
04:06:55 We do have some regulations right now, discussions would be
04:07:00 appropriate at another time.
04:07:01 >>MARY MULHERN: When we do discuss that, maybe discuss
04:07:06 hours?
04:07:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, you can talk about whatever you guys
04:07:09 want to talk about.
04:07:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What I was trying to point out is that
04:07:14 currently, the sporting venues, whether they have a football
04:07:21 game or concert, it's the sporting arena is exempt from any
04:07:26 of the noise regulations.
04:07:28 >>REBECCA KERT: I would be happy to meet with you guys
04:07:33 individually.
04:07:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: She doesn't feel comfortable discussing
04:07:39 noise and I understand.
04:07:41 That they told me that it happened because I don't want to
04:07:43 the carry on somewhere else.
04:07:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
04:07:46 That's what I was trying to point out.
04:07:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Just for public knowledge, Councilman
04:07:51 Mulhern was referring to was there was an event at Raymond
04:07:54 James stadium, and there was a very, very strange weather
04:07:57 condition that caused the sound to be amplified like two
04:08:02 miles south of where the venue was, and people literally
04:08:06 heard it as though it was right next door.
04:08:08 That's why.
04:08:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's just exactly what I was going to
04:08:17 say.
04:08:17 [ Laughter ]
04:08:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I wanted to speak to that point
04:08:31 I think that one of the reasons why aligning the two
04:08:37 regulations, the alcohol sales and the sound, is to make it
04:08:43 more easily enforceable, and to keep track when someone is
04:08:50 calling TPD or they are calling the city for help with
04:08:54 enforcement, because it's too loud, or it is being
04:08:59 disturbed.
04:08:59 I think having the hours in alignment is a tool that they
04:09:06 can use.
04:09:07 It's much easier to administer and enforce that way.
04:09:12 That's what I was looking to get out of.
04:09:14 That and a lot of other stuff like she said is cleaning it
04:09:17 up.
04:09:17 That's the other point I want to make, sir.
04:09:20 Thank you.
04:09:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
04:09:23 Than.
04:09:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) yes, sir.
04:09:29 First of all, to go back to section 5, special restaurant
04:09:36 and permits only, that should read "no amplified outdoor
04:09:41 sound" instead of music.
04:09:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
04:09:46 That's what she said.
04:09:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That one is changed?
04:09:50 >> Yes.
04:09:50 The left-hand side is current code.
04:09:52 And then the proposed amendment is in the middle column.
04:09:55 You will notice that I originally did have sound, music
04:09:58 stricken and sound underlined.
04:10:00 But because the two motions the way they worked together, it
04:10:03 actually causes it to be stricken completely.
04:10:08 So it's really up to City Council.
04:10:10 If you wind up wanting to keep the 11:00 and not aligning
04:10:15 hours, but what you asked us directly to do is unstrike, and
04:10:19 it would keep the underlined sound change.
04:10:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what I would support, is to keep it
04:10:26 at 11 and not align it.
04:10:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
04:10:33 Is there anything else you want to discuss on this item 4 so
04:10:36 we can make motions?
04:10:40 Public?
04:10:41 We have public come forward.
04:10:43 >> Tracy Sherman from the Hampton INN, 13701 east seventh
04:10:52 Avenue.
04:10:52 I sat here all day and I appreciate all the hard work you do
04:10:56 for our city and I am pleased to be here and sit through it
04:10:59 with you.
04:10:59 I was asked that Ybor be included in that agreement.
04:11:02 And I would ask that you oppose the nonalignment of the
04:11:06 hours.
04:11:06 These events that you speak of, that, yes, they do cause a
04:11:10 little bit of ruckus.
04:11:11 I live behind it and I understand it and I'm a resident here
04:11:15 as well.
04:11:16 However, they bring in so many tax dollars and tourists.
04:11:20 And I work at a hotel.
04:11:22 That's what gives me my job and gives your constituent their
04:11:26 job.
04:11:26 And the house keeping department and all of those things.
04:11:28 So while the events that you spoke of at the stadium, it was
04:11:35 not inside the stadium.
04:11:36 It was in the stadium parking lot.
04:11:38 So things like that when you are doing the event permit,
04:11:41 taking into consideration where it's at, I think, is also a
04:11:44 key factor.
04:11:46 And so that's just my recommendation.
04:11:48 I know I'm on the chamber, the board for the Chamber of
04:11:51 Commerce for Ybor City.
04:11:52 And I really know that all the other residents and merchant
04:11:59 one say that's what keeps our historic district buzzing and
04:12:02 exciting and vibrant, and keeps tourists coming there and
04:12:06 spending their dollars on a national basis and things like
04:12:11 that and so forth.
04:12:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin?
04:12:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So that is what is here, is Ybor City, local
04:12:20 historic district would be included with Westshore, to be
04:12:24 exempt.
04:12:25 >> To be exempt.
04:12:26 Thank you for the clarification.
04:12:27 I really appreciate that.
04:12:28 And I appreciate everything you guys do.
04:12:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
04:12:32 But otherwise, I would again like to see C brought back to
04:12:42 another PM for everyone else.
04:12:53 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
04:12:55 As far as C, T.H.A.N. asked you leave that, don't strike it
04:13:06 The concern I have in Beach Park is Westshore.
04:13:14 It would be okay to allow a downtown.
04:13:19 Those of us who live close to on both sides east of
04:13:24 Westshore, and we on the south side had a concern that
04:13:30 should Westshore, at the model there, ever have a restaurant
04:13:36 on the south side of their property, which has been talked
04:13:42 about, we had a concern then because, as you know, as has
04:13:47 been said, that sound travels.
04:13:49 And we heard the same noise that you were talking about from
04:13:53 the stadium.
04:13:54 So we are speaking here as Beach Park, because the reason we
04:14:00 didn't take a position on the issue of Seminole Heights area
04:14:06 is because we don't take it on individuals, so, for example,
04:14:11 our concerns with Westshore, but I'm speaking of Beach Park
04:14:15 now.
04:14:18 We as Beach Park would have a concern, I would imagine,
04:14:22 because the neighborhoods east of the mall there have
04:14:26 concerns.
04:14:26 I know this is to the Westshore area in general.
04:14:30 We had a concern about what could happen with the future at
04:14:38 Westshore mall.
04:14:41 So as far as T.H.A.N., the only thing we ask to keep is C in
04:14:49 it.
04:14:51 Not strike C.
04:14:54 Thank you.
04:14:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
04:14:58 Next.
04:14:58 >> I'm not speaking of Seminole Heights at this point.
04:15:04 I'm speaking as a res department of the city.
04:15:06 1408.
04:15:09 The idea of living someplace like Ybor, because you have
04:15:13 friends that live there, and, you know, you have residents
04:15:17 there.
04:15:17 And I don't think, while we talk about how much money that
04:15:21 brings in, guess what, it also costs people when they can't
04:15:25 get up in the morning for their job because they are kept up
04:15:28 because of the noise.
04:15:29 And I have been down here when there are countless people
04:15:33 from Ybor and the residential areas complaining about the
04:15:36 noise volume, complaining about needing control over that.
04:15:39 And I don't think that an exception should be given for
04:15:42 Ybor.
04:15:44 It's one place where you have both entertainment and
04:15:47 residents combined in a large number.
04:15:49 Thank you.
04:15:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else from the public?
04:15:55 Anyone else in the public?
04:15:57 I got Mrs. Mulhern and Mrs. Montelione.
04:15:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not comfortable with giving that
04:16:05 exemption to Ybor just yet, because of what he just said.
04:16:11 I think of that as an area that does have a lot of
04:16:14 residents.
04:16:16 And there is no one here from Ybor today.
04:16:21 I'm sorry, one business -- I don't know if you are a
04:16:28 resident there.
04:16:29 But --
04:16:32 >> For the record I did go to the YCDC public infrastructure
04:16:36 subcommittee, and the public safety subcommittee, also
04:16:40 reviewed it, and I watched the vote, and they wanted to be
04:16:47 included, which was commercial people and everything else.
04:16:53 So it was one of their committees that actually voted.
04:16:58 They requested it.
04:16:59 I did want to throw that throughout.
04:17:00 >> The YCDC?
04:17:02 Is that a neighborhood -- is there a residents association?
04:17:07 >> The particular committee is Tony CAPOLA, a resident of
04:17:13 the neighborhood.
04:17:13 >> And they want to be able to have amplified music?
04:17:18 >> No.
04:17:18 They want to be treed the same.
04:17:20 They want to keep their special restaurants open until 3
04:17:23 like downtown, because if they come in and get a permit for
04:17:28 a special restaurant, they have to close at 11:00 and 1:00.
04:17:32 And then they want everybody else being a bar.
04:17:36 They want to have food served until three guaranteed.
04:17:41 That's why they want to be included in that.
04:17:44 >>MARY MULHERN: They want to be able to serve alcohol until
04:17:46 three.
04:17:47 >> It's happening because this is an S-1 for special
04:17:56 restaurant.
04:17:57 Be they have to be a restaurant, right?
04:18:00 And they've live by those hours that we have in our
04:18:03 criteria. What's happening is you are getting Ybor
04:18:06 approvals in front of you as large venue, small venue, that
04:18:11 may or may not serve food, because they want to stay open
04:18:14 till three.
04:18:15 But the people that want to be restaurants but they are
04:18:19 going to be something else because they don't want to close
04:18:21 at 11:00.
04:18:23 Because everything else in Ybor doesn't close at 11:00.
04:18:31 It's what they told me.
04:18:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know.
04:18:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
04:18:35 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
04:18:39 The residents who want -- and I'm sorry, Mr. Parker, but
04:18:45 residents who live in Ybor City often live in Ybor City.
04:18:48 The newly developed revitalized part.
04:18:51 People move there because they want the ability to go out at
04:18:55 11:00 at night, or 2:00 in the morning, or 3:00 in the
04:18:59 morning, and get a burger and a beer or, you know, whatever.
04:19:03 They want food and they want to have alcohol with their food
04:19:06 late at night.
04:19:07 That's why they moved there.
04:19:08 Otherwise they would live in the suburbs where they can't
04:19:12 get that.
04:19:12 So I want to move the amendment.
04:19:15 We have been discussing this for a while.
04:19:16 >> I haven't spoken yet.
04:19:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have a motion.
04:19:23 We can get a second.
04:19:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I am not going to take the vote now.
04:19:27 Motion by Mrs. Montelione to move the amendment.
04:19:29 Do we have a second?
04:19:30 >>HARRY COHEN: I second it I think because I want to
04:19:35 discuss it.
04:19:38 I would like to leave in the language and see related to the
04:19:47 11 p.m. limitation, and I also think Ybor should be left in.
04:19:54 So understood those two circumstances, I will support it.
04:20:02 >> So no exemption with Ybor?
04:20:04 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm agreeing with you on Ybor.
04:20:06 But I'm agreeing with the other issues brought up that it's
04:20:09 leaving in C with the 11 p.m. prohibition elsewhere.
04:20:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Elsewhere meaning --
04:20:17 >>HARRY COHEN: The other exempted areas.
04:20:20 Coyle.
04:20:24 >> That would be adding an additional piece of that.
04:20:29 It's 171 p.m. in that type of development or within one of
04:20:34 the exempt areas for hours.
04:20:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Which will include Ybor.
04:20:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, including downtown, Westshore,
04:20:42 Channel District and Ybor.
04:20:45 Unless you heard from somebody in Westshore that they don't
04:20:48 want the noise to align.
04:20:50 You can pick and choose.
04:20:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: My motion was to move it as presented.
04:20:56 >> That's my motion.
04:21:04 That's what it was intended with the original motion.
04:21:07 I don't see a date the original motion was made.
04:21:10 But that's was the intent.
04:21:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who was the second?
04:21:22 >> The only motion at the top of this page is --
04:21:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: January 9th.
04:21:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: When the motions were made on January
04:21:31 9th, that was the intent.
04:21:33 And what she drafted is consistent with the motions that
04:21:35 passed then, and that's what I would move to transmit.
04:21:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mrs. Montelione.
04:21:42 Do we have a second?
04:21:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I could, chair.
04:21:47 What Mrs. Montelione said is correct. I did second that
04:21:50 originally.
04:21:50 I still would like to see it seconded and go forward as is.
04:21:54 I don't think we are going to have the votes to go forward
04:21:56 on it.
04:21:57 I think Mr. Cohen is offering an amendment to the motion
04:22:00 that will probably get passed and get ugh going on this
04:22:04 particular amendment.
04:22:06 If the maker of the motion is amenable I would accept that
04:22:08 as a change on the motion.
04:22:12 If not, I will make a separate motion.
04:22:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So back to me then?
04:22:23 He
04:22:24 You know, I don't know how to say this.
04:22:30 I mean, it covers a lot of things.
04:22:37 It covers TV sets.
04:22:39 So if someone is -- if they have got outdoor television set
04:22:44 and they are watching the Rays game, and the Rays game goes
04:22:48 into extra innings and it goes until midnight, that TV has
04:22:51 to be turned off or the sound at least has to be turned off
04:22:55 at 11.
04:22:56 And you can have a bunch of angry people who no longer can
04:23:00 listen to the Rays game.
04:23:02 Same thing --
04:23:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Probably a lot of happy people to be honest
04:23:07 with you.
04:23:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, last night.
04:23:14 Coach Maddon asked people to have patience last night so
04:23:17 we'll have patience.
04:23:19 But, you know, when you just say amplified sounds, you are
04:23:22 talking about a lot of stuff.
04:23:26 You know, CNN, you go to some places, it's not all sports
04:23:32 bars.
04:23:33 Some places it's all news.
04:23:35 And you are including a lot in that category.
04:23:38 And I think that this, whether the other individuals on
04:23:46 council are night owls.
04:23:47 I happen to be so.
04:23:49 So I think I am representing other night owls out there.
04:23:51 My night typically, especially after council days, my
04:23:55 evening at home to go out and have dinner doesn't start
04:23:59 until 9:30 or 10:00 at night.
04:24:02 So I get home.
04:24:04 Josh and I go out for dinner.
04:24:06 We don't get to the restaurant until 11:00.
04:24:09 If I want to sit outside and have dinner in Ybor City at
04:24:12 11:00 at night, I would like the same ambience.
04:24:21 >> I think if I could, chair, the point is well taken.
04:24:24 I totally understand it.
04:24:26 I was counting noses and most of the noses are going in a
04:24:29 different direction.
04:24:35 If I could, chair.
04:24:38 If you could ask if there's a second to that particular
04:24:41 motion.
04:24:42 I am removing my second because she does not want to accept
04:24:45 it.
04:24:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's the second second that I have had to
04:24:48 remove.
04:24:48 I'm running out of council members.
04:24:50 >> I'm sticking to my guns.
04:24:55 >> I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione.
04:24:58 I had a second which I lost by Mr. Cohen.
04:25:00 I had a second which I lost from Mr. Suarez.
04:25:05 I am down to three council members.
04:25:07 Anyone want to second this motion by Mrs. Montelione, which
04:25:09 I think is a fair thing because Ybor City was the
04:25:12 entertainment center of the city.
04:25:14 That's what it was sold at.
04:25:16 But I'm not going to second it either.
04:25:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was not here when she made the motion so
04:25:25 I'm lost what the motion is.
04:25:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The motion is exactly the way it's
04:25:30 presented.
04:25:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ybor is not being taken out.
04:25:36 Ybor is staying in.
04:25:38 That's the amendment, that Ybor stays in.
04:25:41 None of these exemptions are being taken out.
04:25:43 The only thing is the part C stay in at 11 p.m.
04:25:52 >> May I give a different examples example?
04:25:56 There's a different example -- tiff floor.
04:26:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Those areas, it is amplified sound.
04:26:10 And amplified sound can be amplified guitar, can be
04:26:15 amplified TV, anything.
04:26:19 And 11 p.m. is reasonable.
04:26:23 And if they want it later, they come to council, and we
04:26:31 study it and decide, yes or no.
04:26:34 This area warrants it.
04:26:36 That's as simple as it is.
04:26:37 And that's how it's been.
04:26:39 And that's what I am going to -- if that motion is made,
04:26:44 that's the one --
04:26:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a minute.
04:26:49 Let me do this.
04:26:52 I have got one motion.
04:26:54 I still don't have a second on.
04:26:56 And I'm still fishing.
04:26:57 And I ain't caught no fish.
04:27:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'm in favor of the motion:
04:27:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm not sure why.
04:27:14 My people in new Tampa cannot go top a restaurant and sit
04:27:18 outside and have music after 11:00 at night.
04:27:22 There's a few different places I can mention that some of
04:27:27 them meet the criteria of being within a large commercial,
04:27:31 you know, center.
04:27:33 Some of them don't.
04:27:34 And there's a few that I go to, a few that my friends to, a
04:27:39 few club members that I'm associated with GOP to, that have
04:27:45 outdoor music after 11.
04:27:48 And I want my constituents to be able to enjoy -- I want my
04:27:53 constituents to be able to enjoy that option as well as, you
04:27:56 know, other places in the city.
04:27:58 >> I call the question.
04:28:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
04:28:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion to call the question first and
04:28:04 second.
04:28:04 All in favor?
04:28:05 Opposed?
04:28:10 All right.
04:28:11 The question on the vote, can the vote be taken now?
04:28:15 Motion by Mrs. Montelione.
04:28:17 Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
04:28:18 Am I correct, both of you?
04:28:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: I don't know what the motion is.
04:28:24 She just made a commentary.
04:28:35 Is that what it is?
04:28:37 Okay.
04:28:37 All right.
04:28:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
04:28:38 I am going to take the vote on the motion.
04:28:41 Is it all right with the maker and the second?
04:28:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, sir.
04:28:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor signify by saying aye.
04:28:46 Opposed nay.
04:28:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion fails.
04:28:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 4 to 3.
04:28:55 >>THE CLERK: 4 to 3.
04:28:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What's the next motion?
04:28:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I would like to make a motion.
04:29:01 >>HARRY COHEN: Leaving in section C, which is the
04:29:06 prohibition on amplified sound after 11 p.m., with the
04:29:10 caveat that the exempted areas outlined in item A be
04:29:18 included.
04:29:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 4 to 3.
04:29:29 I can tell you who voted.
04:29:30 You tell me, sir.
04:29:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know what --
04:29:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick, myself and Mrs. Montelione
04:29:36 voted for, that voted to deny was Mr. Suarez, Ms. Capin, Ms.
04:29:44 Mulhern and Mr. Cohen.
04:29:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And now it's I in the record sir.
04:29:47 >> It was in the record before, sir.
04:29:50 Be an attorney.
04:29:50 Don't worry about the council.
04:29:53 Continue.
04:29:53 >> So that's my motion.
04:29:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
04:30:01 My motion actually is relatively similar to Councilwoman
04:30:05 Montelione's motion with the exception of leaving in item C,
04:30:10 not blocking that out.
04:30:14 Period.
04:30:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen has got a motion before we go
04:30:18 to the question.
04:30:20 I just seconded that motion.
04:30:21 I have a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
04:30:23 Discussion.
04:30:23 Mrs. Montelione.
04:30:24 >> Mr. Cohen, section C says unless within a large scale
04:30:30 commercial development 500 that you square feet or more, a
04:30:36 of gross floor area, I don't understand why that would set
04:30:41 some restaurant, some location in a commercial development
04:30:44 of that size where there is no residential in a 500,000
04:30:52 square foot or more gross floor area would be prohibited
04:30:56 from having outside music after 11:00.
04:31:01 You are saying he's in C.
04:31:08 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm saying keep it all in C.
04:31:12 Absolutely.
04:31:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to make sure.
04:31:15 >>HARRY COHEN: I was clarifying that.
04:31:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I believe Mr. Cohen added the exempt
04:31:21 areas from A as well.
04:31:22 So it's the large scale commercial development and also
04:31:25 Ybor, Channel District, downtown, and Westshore.
04:31:29 That's what I believe I heard.
04:31:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
04:31:36 That's correct.
04:31:36 I did add it.
04:31:39 So you withdraw your second?
04:31:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't know Channel District was in
04:31:45 there, too.
04:31:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, let's make up our mind.
04:31:48 I'm going fishing again.
04:31:49 >>MARY MULHERN: It's going to pass anyway.
04:31:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Which ones you want to put in C.
04:31:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen.
04:31:58 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
04:31:59 Any further discussion by council members?
04:32:02 All in favor signify by saying aye.
04:32:05 Opposed nay.
04:32:06 For the record, nay was one vote, Mrs. Montelione.
04:32:10 Yes was Mr. Cohen, Mrs. Mulhern, Mr. Miranda, Mr. Reddick,
04:32:13 Mrs. Capin, Mr. Suarez.
04:32:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The last amendment proposed amendment
04:32:22 number 5, this one actually is some of the venues I talked
04:32:29 about this morning.
04:32:29 This is the requirement, the locations required to report on
04:32:33 an annual basis.
04:32:34 Just Ford record, there are 353.
04:32:37 I had that number wrong.
04:32:39 353.
04:32:41 Out of 1354.
04:32:44 Locations.
04:32:45 Those right now are in the report with the numbers.
04:32:49 And this amendment that was heard by council will now
04:32:53 require them to submit the most current, most recent
04:32:56 commercial insurance audit forms along with that annual
04:33:00 report to prove up the numbers that they are giving.
04:33:04 As Mr. Suarez has indicated previously and is documented
04:33:09 researching it, it is a professional audit, and it's
04:33:14 certified and everything else, by actual CPA, auditor.
04:33:23 So getting that audit already done, a new audit or creating
04:33:27 a new process for it, had a great suggestion to look into it
04:33:31 and with the submittal.
04:33:36 So to work with them by the city or anybody else and it's
04:33:39 already being done in the industry, and having the most
04:33:42 current one.
04:33:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Any comments by council members before we
04:33:46 hear from the public?
04:33:54 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill again, with T.H.A.N.
04:33:57 Yes, we strongly urge you to accept it.
04:34:01 Thank you.
04:34:02 >>HARRY COHEN: Any further discussion?
04:34:05 Be we have a motion to transmit from Councilman Reddick,
04:34:14 seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
04:34:16 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
04:34:19 >>> The last amendment is actually just a reference.
04:34:32 It says amendment 6 but actually submitted a memorandum
04:34:36 dealing with that, and I think it provided to most of you,
04:34:40 the state legislature requirements, going to change 7 days
04:34:43 to 30 days, that we actually approved by the state.
04:34:47 To see what we have.
04:34:48 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Chair, I had made the motion for that
04:34:53 change.
04:34:53 And I want to be clear so that everyone understands.
04:34:56 This was really initiated by some confusion and some
04:35:04 differences of opinion within certain residential
04:35:07 neighborhoods as to whether or not how this will allow to be
04:35:14 rented out for short periods of time.
04:35:16 And as everyone I'm sure is aware, some people want to be
04:35:19 able to do it.
04:35:20 Others do not want to be able to do it.
04:35:23 And we weren't really trying to limit this type of activity
04:35:29 toe a 30-day minimum.
04:35:31 My understanding -- and Mrs. Kert, you could in any case
04:35:36 abundantly clear -- is that the legislature has said that we
04:35:38 may not mettle in these rental times unless we had done in
04:35:48 the 2011.
04:35:49 >> Correct.
04:35:50 In 20111 the state legislature amended the state act to say
04:35:55 we could not deal with what they called vacation rentals.
04:36:00 But which fits with what we were talking about, that
04:36:04 dwelling units could be rented.
04:36:05 There was a bill last time which we were reviewing as this
04:36:08 was traversing along hoping that the legislature would
04:36:11 change their mind and reinstate the home rule authority to
04:36:13 this council to make the changes.
04:36:15 However, they made a change.
04:36:17 But the change said you are not a plowed to change the
04:36:19 duration of the period.
04:36:21 So, yes, my opinion -- and I discussed it with other
04:36:24 attorneys around the state -- S.that we are preempted at the
04:36:29 current time from making the change.
04:36:31 >>HARRY COHEN: And I want to thank you for all the
04:36:33 interaction that have inquired.
04:36:35 Many are still frustrated that we continue do anything.
04:36:38 But as you heard, we can't.
04:36:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
04:36:41 We need to take it off the list?
04:36:47 Okay.
04:36:48 Anything else on this item number 7?
04:36:52 We go to item number 8.
04:36:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I did a survey of the audience when we had
04:37:03 our little break.
04:37:04 And I would like to propose that we continue item number 8
04:37:10 and number 9 as staff reports to I think it was August
04:37:20 7th, staff reports at 9 a.m.
04:37:25 So if we could hear those as number 1 and 2 on the staff
04:37:29 report session so we don't keep continuing it, but we
04:37:33 actually get to it while there's still the public here.
04:37:38 I know we continued these both a few times.
04:37:42 But I think it would be good if we could talk about it when
04:37:48 people are awake.
04:37:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that.
04:37:54 As always, at the time of continuation, that's in essence
04:37:57 what this is, I ask anyone had that wants to speak to the
04:38:01 continuation portion only.
04:38:07 They are just going to change to the August the 7th.
04:38:09 The same items 8 and 9 will be brought back as 1 and 2.
04:38:14 Do you want to speak against it?
04:38:16 You are welcome to come to the mike.
04:38:18 That's a long distance conversation.
04:38:20 If you want to speak on it, you come to the mike.
04:38:24 I have a motion.
04:38:27 8 and 9 by Mrs. Mulhern.
04:38:29 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
04:38:30 Any further discussion by council members?
04:38:32 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
04:38:35 Opposed nay.
04:38:39 August 7th under staff reports and items 1 and 2.
04:38:44 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
04:38:46 Opposed nay.
04:38:47 Passed unanimously.
04:38:49 Okay.
04:38:51 Information reports.
04:38:54 Right to left.
04:38:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: None at this time, thank you.
04:39:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It was brought up today and for the record
04:39:07 the letters that were sent from the public transportation
04:39:11 director, the PTC, requesting for assistance, and our city
04:39:18 attorney said she had not seen the letters but it was
04:39:21 brought up.
04:39:21 So I am going to make this -- Rebecca, please, this is for
04:39:25 the city attorney and that's for the record.
04:39:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mrs. Capin on that
04:39:34 item by the PTC.
04:39:36 We have a second by Mr. Reddick.
04:39:37 Further discussion by council members?
04:39:39 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
04:39:42 Opposed nay.
04:39:42 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:39:44 Anything else, Mrs. Capin?
04:39:46 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No, that's it.
04:39:47 Thank you very much.
04:39:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just one item, Mr. Chair, requesting a
04:39:50 commendation for the Delta Sigma Beta for celebrating their
04:39:55 44th conference in Tampa, and next week.
04:40:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr -- oh, next week?
04:40:05 Motion by Mr. Reddick.
04:40:06 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
04:40:08 Further discussion by council members?
04:40:09 All in favor of the motion?
04:40:11 Opposed?
04:40:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:40:14 Anything else?
04:40:16 Mrs. Mulhern.
04:40:17 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
04:40:23 (off microphone).
04:40:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
04:40:28 >> Nothing.
04:40:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
04:40:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have a couple of things.
04:40:33 One is that I would like to -- and this is a date to be
04:40:36 determined, because I have to find out when they are
04:40:39 available, to have the Buffalo soldiers come and give a
04:40:43 five-minute presentation on the history of their
04:40:46 organization.
04:40:48 I had the honor and privilege of attending their military
04:40:51 gala the other night and it was extremely informative.
04:40:55 I would like to have them come here and do that for us.
04:40:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, to be
04:41:00 determined date, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
04:41:02 Further discussion by council members?
04:41:03 All in favor of the motion?
04:41:05 Opposed?
04:41:06 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:41:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to also set, and looking at
04:41:11 the calendar, I guess August 7th because it was like a
04:41:16 pretty clear day so far.
04:41:21 Sam had sent a request quite some time ago asking for
04:41:24 council to consider a change in our calendar to have the
04:41:27 alcoholic beverage permitting be set per evening sessions
04:41:31 rather than daytime sessions, and I think for public
04:41:34 participation reasons it is a very good idea.
04:41:38 So I would like to have staff schedule that for a staff
04:41:42 report of what the logistics would be.
04:41:45 Mr. Shelby, I think, would be the appropriate person.
04:41:48 To discuss our calendar.
04:41:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mrs. Coyle, that's something that I can
04:41:56 report back on.
04:41:59 Be.
04:42:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What I am asking is, Sam had made that
04:42:08 suggestion quite awhile ago to have an alcoholic beverage
04:42:11 permitting hearings be held at the evening sessions rather
04:42:15 than the morning sessions so that there could be an
04:42:18 increased public participation.
04:42:21 And have staff come back August 7th and talk to us about
04:42:24 what the logistics would be of doing that.
04:42:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I would just recommend you put them on
04:42:29 the second night meeting because the first in night meeting
04:42:31 is pretty full generally.
04:42:32 So unless you want to allow 15-plus cases oh than that
04:42:35 night, you should probably put them on the second night.
04:42:39 I know your calendar backwards and forwards so it's really
04:42:42 up to you.
04:42:47 I can answer right away.
04:42:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I mean, one night we only had three
04:42:56 cases on the agenda.
04:42:56 Some nights we have ten.
04:43:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: But we schedule 35 to 45 days in advance
04:43:03 so notice can be done.
04:43:04 So we would be stacking that first night meeting stacked
04:43:07 with the 10 zoning potentials and the 13, and then you run
04:43:15 four to seven alcohol permits a month.
04:43:19 In your rules the number allowable items, agenda items.
04:43:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I would ask we schedule that
04:43:28 discussion for August 7th.
04:43:32 >> How about April 16th?
04:43:36 [ Laughter ]
04:43:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: They asked for this in April of 2014 so
04:43:44 I'm not sure if they want their request to be continued for
04:43:48 an entire year.
04:43:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion made by Mrs. Montelione,
04:43:52 second by Mr. Cohen.
04:43:53 I'm sorry I missed the date.
04:43:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: August 7th under staff reports.
04:43:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Under staff report.
04:43:59 All in favor of that motion signify by saying aye.
04:44:02 Opposed nay.
04:44:03 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:44:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And made another request.
04:44:08 I'm not sure how well this is going to go, Mr. Frankhauser
04:44:12 but I will give it a shot, that the T.H.A.N. requests if the
04:44:16 recommendation of the Variance Review Board is appealed that
04:44:18 council hold the hearing on the appeal at its evening
04:44:22 meeting.
04:44:22 Also the staff reports on August 7th.
04:44:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I take a vote --
04:44:31 >> As long as we are talking about calendars I would like to
04:44:34 invite the council members --
04:44:38 >> I have a motion on the floor, Mr. Frankhauser.
04:44:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I haven't taken a vote yet.
04:44:44 You made a motion for the second part.
04:44:50 Read that motion again?
04:44:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: August 7th under staff reports to
04:44:56 discuss T.H.A.N.'s request that if a recommendation of the
04:44:58 Variance Review Board is appealed that council hold the
04:45:01 hearing on the appeal at an evening meeting.
04:45:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do I have a second?
04:45:07 Motion dies for lack of a second.
04:45:09 Yes, sir.
04:45:09 >> Frankhauser: I want to invite you to the T.H.A.N.
04:45:17 meeting on September 10th at 6:30 at the Loretta Ingram
04:45:25 recreation center.
04:45:30 The man over here can put it on his calendar and announce it
04:45:33 to the world.
04:45:34 Thank you very much.
04:45:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
04:45:38 Anything else before this council?
04:45:39 Need a motion to receive and file the document.
04:45:41 Mrs. Mulhern.
04:45:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
04:45:43 Yes, I need to add -- I guess I'll make this a new motion,
04:45:47 but add this to the staff reports that I already continued 8
04:45:58 and 9, that staff come back with language to add a notice
04:46:06 requirement to the code for substantial changes, design
04:46:12 exceptions, and S-1.
04:46:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
04:46:19 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
04:46:20 Further discussion by council members?
04:46:22 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
04:46:24 Opposed nay.
04:46:26 Motion passed 6 to 1.
04:46:31 Need a motion to receive and file by Mr. Reddick, seconded
04:46:34 by who?
04:46:37 By "me" Mrs. Montelione.
04:46:40 All in favor?
04:46:42 Opposed?
04:46:42 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:46:43 Any one of the 512 in the audience come to care to speak on
04:46:47 any item?
04:46:47 I see no one at this time.
04:46:48 We stand adjourned.
04:47:00 (Meeting adjourned.)
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