TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 18, 2014
9:00 a.m.
DISCLAIMER:
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:05:31 [Sounding gavel]
09:05:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:05:34 The chair will yield to Yvonne Yolie Capin.
09:05:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am so happy to introduce Jim Reese.
09:05:42 Jim is a graduate, a former quarterback of the university of
09:05:46 Minnesota, serves as legislative aide for City Council for
09:05:50 eleven years and for myself for five years.
09:05:53 Formerly the mayor of his hometown, Patchogue, New York.
09:06:04 Jim also served as commissioner of general services for
09:06:06 Suffolk county, New York and as director of management for
09:06:10 Pasco County.
09:06:10 Welcome, Jim, for the invocation, and then stay standing for
09:06:15 the pledge of allegiance.
09:06:17 >> Good morning.
09:06:23 We gather together here today intent on doing good work.
09:06:28 We seek to represent fairly and well those who have given us
09:06:32 this task.
09:06:34 May our efforts be blessed with insight, guided by
09:06:38 understanding and wisdom.
09:06:40 We seek to serve with respect for all.
09:06:44 May our personal faith give us strength to act honestly and
09:06:48 well in all matters before us.
09:06:52 Happy holiday to us all.
09:06:54 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:07:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:07:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:07:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:07:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:07:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:07:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:28 Item number 1 under ceremonial activities.
09:07:35 Council member Reddick will handle police Officer of the
09:07:40 Month.
09:07:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Good morning, council.
09:07:47 Again it's my honor to stand before you as we present our
09:07:49 officer for the month of December 2014, officer
09:07:55 John Kasprowicz --
09:08:07 >> Chief Castor: I told him earlier he may not get the name
09:08:11 right.
09:08:11 John, in a short two and a half years that he has been here,
09:08:16 made quite a mark on the community in a very, very positive
09:08:20 way.
09:08:20 He is assigned to the West Tampa housing area, and has done
09:08:25 an outstanding job in lowering crime and improving the
09:08:27 quality of life in that area.
09:08:29 And I'll talk to you about a few of the things that he has
09:08:31 been able to do, specifically in taking firearms off of the
09:08:36 street and out of the hands of dangerous felons.
09:08:46 Just through standard pap troll techniques as well as
09:08:52 interdiction efforts in high crime areas.
09:08:54 On March 13th, he conducted a traffic stop where the
09:08:58 driver was armed with not just one but two handguns in his
09:09:01 waistband.
09:09:06 John was able to recover firearms, a .32 caliber revolver
09:09:10 and $9 M&M handgun and arrest the driver without incident.
09:09:15 Tampa driver admitted driving into the North Boulevard home
09:09:19 with two handguns in order to handle business.
09:09:24 The his style may have prevented more gun fire in the Tampa
09:09:31 Bay area.
09:09:32 Then on June 10th he and his partner Whitney McCormick
09:09:37 conducted a traffic stop and subsequently arrested the
09:09:39 driver on felony narcotics charges.
09:09:41 The driver was discovered to be armed with a 25-caliber
09:09:43 semiautomatic which he had hidden under the driver's seat.
09:09:47 The firearm was recovered and found to be loaded.
09:09:56 The other firearms that he recovered were .38 caliber
09:09:59 revolver, .22 semiautomatic and 40 caliber handgun.
09:10:05 So he's out there doing good hard work every day, but in
09:10:11 addition you may have seen in the paper recently the
09:10:13 coverage we have of one of our school resource officers,
09:10:16 Marcus Elam, was diagnosed with cancer, and he is going
09:10:20 through chemotherapy treatments right now.
09:10:23 Marcus has a wife and two young children, and it's been a
09:10:26 financial strain on him.
09:10:27 And although John has only met Marcus and dealt with him a
09:10:33 few times in the capacity of the Tampa Police Department
09:10:35 family, he took it on himself to put together an initiative
09:10:41 where officers would come in and have their heads shaved in
09:10:46 eye sign of solidarity and also make a donation to Marcus
09:10:51 and his family and in that two day event where officers had
09:10:55 their heads shaved the Tampa Police Department and sheriff's
09:10:57 office deputies that came and participated in this
09:11:04 initiative, he raised over $6,000 for Marcus and his family.
09:11:09 So it goes to show that not only is he an outstanding police
09:11:12 officer out there on the street, but he's got a heart of
09:11:15 gold.
09:11:15 So it is certainly my honor to recognize John Kasprowicz as
09:11:26 officer for the month of December 2014.
09:11:29 [ Applause ]
09:11:33 >> On behalf of Tampa City Council, we would like to give
09:11:36 this commendation to you as officer of December 2014.
09:11:45 Thank you.
09:11:45 >> I'm Vinny Gericitano, president of the Tampa Police
09:12:04 Benevolent Association.
09:12:06 Joining me is vice-president of the Tampa PBA Abe Carmack.
09:12:11 I'm pleased to announce that John here is a member of the
09:12:14 Tampa PBA, very proud of him.
09:12:17 Chief, I want to thank you for picking one of our members
09:12:20 and showing what a good job he does in the City of Tampa.
09:12:25 Also, I would like to say that on Tuesday, there was an
09:12:32 awards ceremony at headquarters where John was named Police
09:12:34 Officer of the Month.
09:12:38 When he left that ceremony he actually pulled over another
09:12:41 vehicle and was able to get a gun out of that vehicle.
09:12:46 So just in a couple of days.
09:12:49 I want to say that John comes from -- his dad is a retired
09:12:55 detective from New York.
09:12:58 He also volunteered his time actually -- his dad is right
09:13:03 behind me here.
09:13:04 He also volunteered his time and his mom volunteered part
09:13:09 time to cut our guys' hair involved in the donation with
09:13:14 Marcus.
09:13:16 We would like to give you a small token of our appreciation
09:13:17 and say thank you again.
09:13:20 We appreciate it.
09:13:21 Good job.
09:13:23 [ Applause ]
09:13:28 >> Chief Castor: As you can see, I didn't participate in
09:13:32 having the head shaved but the outstanding haircut --
09:13:38 (Laughter)
09:13:46 But the PBA donated the food.
09:13:48 They fed everybody that came by for this event, and also
09:13:51 donated their space.
09:13:53 So a great organization led by a wonderful individual with
09:13:56 an outstanding haircut.
09:13:58 (Laughter)
09:14:02 >> Joe Durkin, Bright House networks.
09:14:05 Congratulations.
09:14:09 One month of all of our services.
09:14:12 >> Gerald Honeywell, on behalf of the attorneys at Vanguard.
09:14:24 On behalf of the men and women at Vanguard, we would like to
09:14:29 thank you for protecting our community and keeping us safe.
09:14:33 And a good gift.
09:14:35 >> Frank DeSoto representing Bill Currie and the Currie
09:14:48 family and we are proud to be a small part of our officers
09:14:53 of the month and we would like to present you with this
09:14:55 watch.
09:14:55 >> Representing Columbia restaurant and the Gonzmart family.
09:15:05 Yesterday, the anniversary, the Columbia cafe that became
09:15:12 the restaurant in 1903, the 110th anniversary, and here
09:15:16 is a $110 gift certificate.
09:15:18 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepps Towing service, and
09:15:27 congratulations, John, for what you are doing out there.
09:15:29 On behalf of Jim, Judy and Todd Stepp, we have a small token
09:15:34 of our appreciation.
09:15:38 >> Jill Witecki from Tampa Theatre.
09:15:53 Thank you so much for what you do for our community, and an
09:15:57 annual membership to the theater for a year.
09:16:00 >> Representing Straz Center for the Performing Arts.
09:16:12 We would like to thank you.
09:16:23 >> These flowers are not for you.
09:16:28 But a dozen roses for your significant other.
09:16:30 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Free haircut at MacDill?
09:16:53 A free military style haircut.
09:16:56 But I'm sure they can accommodate you.
09:17:00 How about a portrait at prestige?
09:17:05 Works good for you and your family?
09:17:07 Good for Christmas?
09:17:09 There you go.
09:17:10 Merry Christmas.
09:17:15 How about lunch at Byblos for you and your wife.
09:17:24 And go down to South Howard?
09:17:27 Do you know how many restaurants there are?
09:17:39 Don't go to all of them.
09:17:42 We would like to thank you for what you do for us.
09:17:44 And this is serious so I don't want to make light of that.
09:17:50 But sometimes but anyway, as the chief noted very well --
09:17:57 and we do respect everything that you do and we appreciate
09:18:00 that, and every day, we thank you all for police and fire
09:18:05 rescue and what you do for us.
09:18:13 [ Applause ]
09:18:15 >> It really does feel like Christmas.
09:18:20 I want to start out thanking my family for all the love and
09:18:23 support and always being there for me.
09:18:25 I would like to thank the mayor, the chief, for awarding me
09:18:30 with this honor.
09:18:31 I'm honored to work with the best police department in this
09:18:34 country, in my opinion the best police department in the
09:18:37 world.
09:18:37 I would like to thank my corporal and my brothers and
09:18:40 sisters in the Tampa Police Department for all their hard
09:18:43 work.
09:18:49 I'm beyond privileged to serve with some of the finest men
09:18:52 and women in this country.
09:18:53 We are a close family and always will be there for each
09:18:57 other.
09:19:00 Many years to come work in the Tampa Police Department and
09:19:00 serve the great citizens of Tampa.
09:19:02 Thank you again.
09:19:05 [ Applause ]
09:19:20 >>CHIEF JANE CASTOR: Thank you, council.
09:19:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: While we are waiting to complete the
09:19:30 ceremonies I would like to introduce two people up here on
09:19:32 the dais to my right, to your left, is Kaitlyn Works, past
09:19:37 president of HCC student body and she's attending the
09:19:39 University of South Florida, and to my left, your right, is
09:19:43 Terrell Carter, the student vice-president at HCC.
09:19:58 Item number 2.
09:20:04 I was just at the Amalie arena and Mr. Tony LaRussa was the
09:20:10 guest speaker, and he has a real tight schedule.
09:20:13 I'm under the impression he will not be here this morning.
09:20:16 So the maker was Mr. Suarez.
09:20:18 So I'm sorry to bring you the disappointing news but he had
09:20:21 to catch a plane to go to the Dominican Republic.
09:20:25 Not to start a revolution.
09:20:27 Looking for ball players.
09:20:28 >> I was going to say there's only one reason he's going to
09:20:30 the Dominican Republic, right?
09:20:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess.
09:20:33 We'll hold that to a later date.
09:20:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Make a motion to continue to a later date.
09:20:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:20:41 Second by Mr. Cohen.
09:20:42 Further discussion by council members?
09:20:43 All in favor of the motion?
09:20:45 Opposed?
09:20:46 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:20:47 I need approval of the agenda.
09:20:50 Motion for the agenda and the addendum.
09:20:52 Motion by Mrs. Montelione.
09:20:54 Second by Mr. Suarez.
09:20:56 Discussion by council members?
09:20:58 All in favor?
09:20:59 Opposed?
09:21:00 Motion passed unanimously.
09:21:01 Now, public comments.
09:21:03 We have 30 minutes set aside for that.
09:21:05 And you can speak for 30 minutes, three minutes each, for
09:21:09 any item that is not set for public hearing.
09:21:12 Any item that is set for a public hearing, those comments
09:21:15 shall be made during that time.
09:21:18 Okay, public comments.
09:21:20 Anyone in the audience care to speak?
09:21:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want top for the sake of clarity to make
09:21:28 a particular distinction.
09:21:30 Item 66 is set for a public hearing but whether public
09:21:34 comments will be taken will be governed at the time by the
09:21:36 27-61, and I want to make that clear at this point.
09:21:40 So I just want to be clear, there is no public comment under
09:21:48 that section of the code is an obligation that it be taken.
09:21:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:21:55 Anyone in the public care to speak for three minutes?
09:22:01 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
09:22:04 I represent several petitioners on item 66.
09:22:10 There are also other folks in the audience this morning that
09:22:12 wish to speak to you.
09:22:14 And I think it would be beneficial to let them know some
09:22:17 direction as to when this item will be heard.
09:22:21 Under 27-61, you have the prerogative to allow public
09:22:25 comment.
09:22:28 And if we could get some direction whether the matter will
09:22:31 be heard this morning or this afternoon or perhaps at a
09:22:33 later date, I think it would be a courtesy to these folks.
09:22:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to see this held today
09:22:40 sometime.
09:22:40 I can't tell you right now.
09:22:41 We are three minutes behind because you are taking the three
09:22:43 minutes.
09:22:44 But what I am saying is this.
09:22:48 It depends how this agenda goes.
09:22:50 I don't know if there's any other items that will be removed
09:22:52 from the agenda.
09:22:53 There's some that are coming off.
09:22:58 66 is set for 10:00 in the morning.
09:23:02 I would say that under the odds, the chance, I don't think
09:23:08 it will be heard at 10:00 in the morning P.I would put it
09:23:11 somewhere --
09:23:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I may.
09:23:16 For the sake of being able to control your agenda, I would
09:23:18 not ask that you make any assertions as to what time it will
09:23:21 be held.
09:23:22 It is set for 10:00.
09:23:23 It cannot be taken before 10:00.
09:23:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
09:23:26 It would be after 10:00 but not before.
09:23:30 Mrs. Montelione.
09:23:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: May I make a suggestion, sir?
09:23:35 It's 20 after 9:00 now if that clock on the wall is correct.
09:23:39 Can we goat to 10:00, see where we are at and then hear the
09:23:45 petitioner?
09:23:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can certainly do that.
09:23:51 All right.
09:23:52 Public comments.
09:23:55 State the item to have which you are speaking if it's on the
09:23:58 agenda, please.
09:23:59 >> I'm ed, Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs, which is in north
09:24:04 Tampa, which I will come back to.
09:24:06 Okay, item 8.
09:24:07 Item 8 is something that I was focused on.
09:24:16 But if he had survived, people don't realize he was on his
09:24:21 way at 5 a.m. when-was hit on his bicycle and killed.
09:24:28 So Kupac, I didn't know at the time that he did that.
09:24:36 But that says a lot about somebody 75 years old.
09:24:44 The round about by Dick Greco during the -- Dick Greco is
09:24:51 very much on top of things.
09:24:52 But in any case, admiral Collins was not coming up.
09:25:00 Okay.
09:25:01 Why isn't the -- what, do you have to have -- this turns
09:25:10 this on?
09:25:13 What are they doing?
09:25:15 >> They are right there.
09:25:19 >> Okay, okay.
09:25:22 This is something, I heard a lecture two or three weeks
09:25:29 before he was killed and one thing was that the United
09:25:31 States Navy is phasing out -- what's on the block now,
09:25:36 there's about 20 of them left.
09:25:38 And what these are badly needed for, you can't see them as a
09:25:42 war ship.
09:25:42 You have to see them as a weapons platform.
09:25:45 And now that they are transferring these things to turkey,
09:25:54 it would be good if they were close by like defending
09:26:00 MacDill, defending the Atlantic coast.
09:26:04 And the thing that's really bought and paid for, but they
09:26:07 are 30 years old.
09:26:13 Now, the United States Coast Guard, this Coast Guard cutter
09:26:18 was 44 years old before it was retired three or four years
09:26:22 ago so they could squeeze another five to ten years out of
09:26:25 these weapons platforms for weapons like this, which are
09:26:30 anti-missile missiles.
09:26:33 They are expensive, but in the air defense zone,
09:26:45 intersection zone for aircraft intercept.
09:26:52 And one jet isn't enough.
09:26:57 But MacDill used to have.
09:27:02 Now MacDill has six minutes of warning before they get
09:27:06 hit by a cruise missile.
09:27:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:10 >> Which is very important --
09:27:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:13 >> The --
09:27:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:18 Next, please.
09:27:19 >> Good morning.
09:27:26 This is on item number 7.
09:27:36 I will begin the presentation which the following speakers
09:27:38 will conclude.
09:27:43 We understand it did not include a place of assembly.
09:27:50 For reference, Tampa's zoning and Land Development Code
09:27:53 defines the place of assembly as designed to accommodate the
09:27:57 assembly of persons -- musical performances, entertainment.
09:28:04 Place of assembly includes stadiums, athletic centers,
09:28:07 concert halls, amphitheaters.
09:28:15 (audio drops)
09:28:19 It is our understanding -- to a concert.
09:28:25 The picture on this page shows Hogan's, and it has now
09:28:29 become an open concert event.
09:28:36 Foremost message to the public is that of concert venue.
09:28:42 >> Welcome to Hogan's Beach.
09:28:56 For the dining experience of your life.
09:28:57 >> The location was previously occupied by crabby bills.
09:29:08 Bars primarily provided in the restaurant.
09:29:11 Hogan's transformed this property with live music --
09:29:38 >> Such events are no way held for the purpose of hotel
09:29:47 patrons as one might expect.
09:29:49 Notable issues that we had brought have been noise, parking
09:29:57 and public safety, and the property is located on the water
09:30:01 and much like the zoning officials found with the
09:30:07 amphitheater, can be heard for miles.
09:30:12 Parking is an issue as well.
09:30:14 According to code we understand the property has less than
09:30:16 50 spots remaining.
09:30:17 Event goers walk up and down (audio cut-out) and people try
09:30:26 to run, rollerblade and bicycle around the property and park
09:30:30 illegally on private property.
09:30:34 (Bell sounds).
09:30:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:30:36 >> Frank Roberts, 3926 Americana drive and I am
09:30:55 (video plays)
09:31:47 >> That came from a gentleman who is one of the largest
09:31:54 music DJs in the country right now.
09:32:00 That was the introduction for Hogan's Beach.
09:32:04 This is not a little beach bar where the average guy plays a
09:32:09 banjo.
09:32:19 Hogans projects on their own website that it's separate from
09:32:25 a hotel, restaurant.
09:32:28 On the right they brag about the mayhem, but the mayhem
09:32:33 going down Hogan's Beach.
09:32:35 This slide compares the last 12 months of Hogan's Facebook
09:32:41 account detailing 50 separate music concerts, plus five
09:32:48 concerts.
09:32:51 Our research was on 27 concerts at the mid Florida credit
09:32:55 union amphitheater fairgrounds during the same period.
09:32:59 In the last 12 months, Hogan compared to restaurants/bars,
09:33:09 and it's interesting to find that they are comparing
09:33:12 themselves not to use such as the Weston but a stand-alone
09:33:21 restaurant and bar.
09:33:22 This is December 6th.
09:33:25 This is December 27th.
09:33:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:33:31 Next, please.
09:33:31 >> I'm Julie Johnson, 3942 west Eden rock circle.
09:33:47 December 31st was the second annual New Year's Eve
09:33:50 event, conservative estimate was capacity based on what the
09:33:54 fire marshal allows, not the actual capacity Hogan's boasts
09:33:58 about other concerts nearly double this number and without
09:34:02 any consideration for alcohol sales.
09:34:04 The concert venue offers more than five times the revenue of
09:34:07 the hotel that night, assuming every single hotel room was
09:34:11 rented out.
09:34:12 Again, this isn't looking like accessory use to us, and as
09:34:17 will become clear this isn't a singular event.
09:34:20 January 10th included both indoor and outdoor music
09:34:25 events.
09:34:26 January 17th included both indoor and outdoor musical
09:34:29 events.
09:34:30 January 25th included multiple performances.
09:34:34 February 14th, concerts were held.
09:34:38 February 17th, they held indoor and outdoor
09:34:41 performances.
09:34:42 This is also the kickoff to spend night every Monday night.
09:34:50 March 8th, the concert.
09:34:52 This is the kickoff of regular gay concerts every Saturday
09:34:55 night.
09:34:55 March 9th, musical performance.
09:34:58 March 16th, another concert.
09:35:01 March 23rd, another concert.
09:35:04 March 30th, an entire lineup at DJ.
09:35:10 April 27th, concert.
09:35:11 April 28 they, concert.
09:35:14 May 4th, concert.
09:35:17 May 5th, concert.
09:35:20 May 25th, concert.
09:35:22 If anyone here has been thinking that these are two-hour
09:35:25 concerts or that they are over at 11 p.m. as occurs at the
09:35:29 amphitheater on the fairgrounds, that would be incorrect.
09:35:32 Here is a sample published on Hogan's own website.
09:35:37 DJ started music at noon.
09:35:39 Parties rocked all day then turned up for the main event
09:35:42 half hour before midnight until 3 a.m.
09:35:47 June 1st, concert.
09:35:50 June 15th, concert.
09:35:52 June 20th, concert.
09:35:56 All other pictures in this presentation are from Hogan's.
09:36:00 We wanted to show you another concert from this same
09:36:03 performance to depict the more typical event venue for a
09:36:08 stadium.
09:36:09 June 22nd, concert.
09:36:10 Again this picture of Hogan's taken from their small wooden
09:36:15 stage showing the bar and the 260 room Best Western hotel.
09:36:18 June 26, concert and kickoff of bike night every Thursday
09:36:22 night E.
09:36:23 July 4th, another concert.
09:36:27 Thank you.
09:36:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:36:29 Next, please.
09:36:29 >> Good morning.
09:36:34 I'm Pamela Adkins.
09:36:36 I live at 3938 Venetian way.
09:36:40 July 25th, concert.
09:36:42 This picture should also make you wonder.
09:36:45 What happens to the 2600 people who are allowed to outdoor
09:36:49 events when severe lightning storms come across the water?
09:36:53 Do people leave the concert and run a quarter a mile or
09:36:57 perhaps more to their cars, or does everyone jam into an
09:37:01 area with 1956 person maximum capacity?
09:37:06 If a fire break out what happens then? In our experience,
09:37:10 the answer is clear.
09:37:16 July 6th, concert.
09:37:18 July 18th, concert.
09:37:20 Concert July 20, July 27, August 3rd, August 10th,
09:37:28 August 17th, August 24th, August 31st, and in
09:37:32 between we had other concerts and events.
09:37:35 August 2nd, August 8th, August 22nd, August
09:37:40 24th, August 29th, August 31st, September 21
09:37:47 there was a concert.
09:37:48 September 26th, concert.
09:37:51 October 11, concert.
09:37:54 October 13th, Hogan's continues to disregard written
09:37:58 commitment its legal counsel has made to surrounding
09:38:02 homeowners and other entities.
09:38:04 People cannot sleep in their own homes.
09:38:08 The Dana Shores civic association requests another noise
09:38:11 monitoring study from the EPC.
09:38:14 Days later the "Tampa Bay Times" publishes a story that
09:38:19 Hogans has been, quote, crushing the EDM game of late, and
09:38:26 Gareth Emery suddenly canceled his show with no word as to
09:38:33 why even though according to the article he doesn't seem to
09:38:35 have canceled other shows the same weekend.
09:38:37 October 28th, concert.
09:38:39 >>> Kent Anderson.
09:38:51 I'm going to hopefully close out this portion of the
09:38:53 presentation this morning.
09:38:56 The next slide that HIV up here, but this is an extract out
09:39:05 of the "Tampa Bay Times" that captures the essence of what
09:39:09 my predecessors have all been talking about, is the sheer
09:39:17 volume of people participating in these venues at Hogan's
09:39:19 Beach, and you heard this morning about the thousands of
09:39:25 people at these events.
09:39:30 Also, one of my predecessors talked about the Dana Shores
09:39:34 civic association has been working with the Hillsborough
09:39:36 County EPC to do some noise monitoring out at the facility
09:39:40 out there.
09:39:42 On the 31st of October this year they actually went out,
09:39:47 did a data collection of the noise out there and determined
09:39:49 that the volume does exceed the standards that are
09:39:54 established by the city and the county.
09:40:00 One of the unfortunate parts of this request we did have
09:40:03 with the EPC when they came out is that they did not
09:40:07 calibrate their equipment prior to doing the test.
09:40:10 It kind of invalidated their ability to actually do a
09:40:15 citation while they were out there for a violation of the
09:40:18 noise ordinance.
09:40:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
09:40:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: (off microphone) on the bottom it says
09:40:33 EPC October 31st, shows readings, and then there is
09:40:37 something in blue and underlined, both before and of a 11
09:40:42 p.m.
09:40:43 I can't read that.
09:40:44 Is that exceeding the noise?
09:40:47 Because it is unreadable on the slide.
09:40:50 Thank you.
09:40:50 >> So with that, and once everyone became aware of the fact
09:40:55 that Hogan's was actually exceeding the noise, they actually
09:40:58 delayed or postponed some of their upcoming venues citing
09:41:03 that there was circumstances beyond their control that they
09:41:07 weren't able to do this.
09:41:08 Of note, though, some of these events are programmed by
09:41:11 Hogans to be conducted sometime in 2015.
09:41:16 The next three slides are just more examples of the concerts
09:41:20 that have been talked about from my predecessors this
09:41:23 morning.
09:41:24 Next slide talks about the Hogan's Beach venue, and the
09:41:31 purpose of this place out there is to be accessory to the
09:41:34 hotel.
09:41:35 As you can see on the slide here, though, within the last
09:41:38 quarter of 2014, Hogan's Beach has actually gone four times
09:41:44 as much venue events in comparison with the fairgrounds
09:41:54 exceeding the purpose of both amphitheaters.
09:41:57 This continues to reinforce the themes we had this morning
09:41:59 with regards to making things more louder and louder out
09:42:02 there at Hogan's Beach.
09:42:07 The things we have been told here by Hogan's Beach, you
09:42:14 heard they are lights on the bridge.
09:42:15 They are not.
09:42:15 (Bell sounds).
09:42:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:42:20 Next, please.
09:42:20 >> Tracy Shadday, residing at 3902 Doral drive where I lived
09:42:29 with my husband since the mid 1980s and I would like to
09:42:33 show a map, I hope.
09:42:37 I am going to show a map to provide additional context.
09:42:43 As previous speakers did I will refer to the petitioner as
09:42:46 Hogan's and they are noted on this picture.
09:42:50 This map that we are going to try to get up with a pinpoint
09:42:56 and on the map, all of the residential areas are in yellow.
09:43:01 Thank you.
09:43:07 So Hogan's is right here.
09:43:09 The yellow represents residential areas.
09:43:11 The pink represents hotels where people will be sleeping.
09:43:16 And I live over here on DORAL where the blue X is.
09:43:20 And this month marks the two year anniversary of our
09:43:24 neighborhood working diligently to address ongoing issues
09:43:27 directly associated with Hogan's.
09:43:30 I can't imagine as far away as I am from the Hogan concert
09:43:35 venue what the neighbors closer to the venue experience.
09:43:39 My husband and I had to install two double-pain windows in
09:43:44 our bedroom, which is the closest room to that venue because
09:43:48 we could hear the noise inside and outside.
09:43:51 On many occasions residents have called Hogan's during
09:43:54 concerts to inform them of the noise issue.
09:43:57 Residents, when they do this, have been passed from bun one
09:44:02 person to the next with no resolution.
09:44:04 Our civic association presidential I son has spoken directly
09:44:09 with Hogan's legal counsel on multiple occasions.
09:44:12 This has not resolved matters.
09:44:14 Our civic association has worked extensively to have TPD and
09:44:18 EPC enforce late ordinances.
09:44:22 This has included numerous communication was captain
09:44:26 Ratliff, Marvin black and Joan Hogan and TPD and EPC had
09:44:32 numerous meetings themselves.
09:44:34 At EPC's direction they jointly captured and reviewed
09:44:37 activity directly attributed to Hogan's Beach exceeding EPC
09:44:44 noise standards as long ago as May 13, 2013.
09:44:48 EPC and code enforcement have met regarding noise issues at
09:44:51 Hogan's Beach.
09:44:53 EPC has had multiple meetings with Hogan's legal counsel
09:44:59 concerning noise related issues.
09:45:02 EPC and EPC -- TPD met with representatives.
09:45:07 Hogan's legal counsel made numerous claims in the meeting
09:45:11 and we are submitting a three-page document for your
09:45:14 records.
09:45:15 Their written claims not only fail to acknowledge prior
09:45:17 issues.
09:45:17 They violated the very same week and violations continue.
09:45:24 As an events concert venue.
09:45:28 (Bell sounds)
09:45:30 Thank you.
09:45:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:45:31 Next, please.
09:45:32 >> Good morning.
09:45:45 Turn it the other way?
09:45:52 My name is Bud Blanton, and I live at 3922 Versailles in
09:46:00 Dana Shores.
09:46:02 Respecting noise emanating from Hogan's property has been an
09:46:05 ongoing problem for two years.
09:46:07 Although Hogan's has made promises each year to address the
09:46:11 issues, their promises have not been kept.
09:46:15 We have shared a copy of the material provided by Hogan's
09:46:18 legal counsel during recent meetings on August the 5th
09:46:22 with the EPC, the TPD, Hogan's management, their counsel,
09:46:30 neighborhood representatives and others present.
09:46:32 I would like to provide just a few examples of the variance
09:46:36 between their words and their actions.
09:46:40 Please refer to exhibit A, the highlighted area of exhibit
09:46:45 A.
09:46:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me one second.
09:46:47 I don't mean to interrupt you.
09:46:48 Let me fix that screen for you.
09:46:52 All right, thank you very much.
09:46:53 I'm sorry.
09:46:53 >> Okay.
09:46:56 We were assured that the sound levels during events would
09:47:00 not exceed standards.
09:47:02 Even whale the petition that was before you was under a
09:47:06 continuance, Hogan's had reason to be on good behavior, and
09:47:13 EPC noise study on October 31st showed readings
09:47:17 exceeding the noise standard both before 11 and after 11.
09:47:36 Exhibit B that is before you, when noise monitoring was
09:47:42 performed at my home -- and it's marked with an X on the map
09:47:46 and it's three quarters a mile from Hogan's, standards don't
09:47:50 change whether readings are taken one foot away or one mile
09:47:53 away.
09:47:54 So despite the EPC not fully doing their job that evening, I
09:47:58 believe it is significant that the noise levels exceeded the
09:48:03 standards that far away.
09:48:06 Exhibit A, according to the written materials provided by
09:48:09 Hogan's events end at 8:00 p.m.
09:48:15 And the very least 10.
09:48:17 But calls to Hogan's ahead of vanilla ice concert, for
09:48:22 example, indicated he would not start playing any earlier
09:48:25 than 10.
09:48:27 The concert actually started after midnight.
09:48:31 Hogan's has also claimed to schedule concerts around
09:48:35 holidays.
09:48:36 If you look at the last two and a half months, for example,
09:48:39 eight performances were scheduled.
09:48:41 Only one fell on Halloween.
09:48:46 None scheduled around holiday around EPC noise violations,
09:48:54 despite significant number of hours, the issues remain.
09:48:58 We are requesting that the parking be addressed and large
09:49:03 outdoor assembles banned, that --
09:49:07 (Bell sounds).
09:49:07 >> And that their hours of operation be substantially
09:49:10 restricted.
09:49:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:49:11 Next, please.
09:49:12 I am going to need a motion from council to give me another
09:49:15 20 minutes.
09:49:16 Motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:49:17 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
09:49:19 Discussion on the motion?
09:49:19 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:49:21 Next, please.
09:49:22 >> Cheri Bett. I live at 3909 Versailles drive in Tampa.
09:49:42 I have lived in Dana Shores for 35 years. Countless
09:49:42 afternoons and evenings and nights I Have been driven from
09:49:42 the peaceful enjoyment of my backyard into my home where I
09:49:56 continued to be assailed by the music from the facility of
09:50:01 my living room and bedroom.
09:50:14 My home also is on the causeway and provides me a unique
09:50:20 perspective of the traffic issues and trends.
09:50:22 My home is right here.
09:50:27 I can see directly over the causeway.
09:50:29 I have actually witnessed traffic during an event back up
09:50:33 all the way onto the veterans expressway and had interfered
09:50:38 with commuting on the veterans expressway, funded with more
09:50:47 than 20 million of federal and local taxpayer revenue that
09:50:51 according to the D.O.T. sources is intended to make passage
09:50:55 safe for pedestrians and cyclists.
09:50:58 These improvements are critical since the Tampa Bay has
09:51:02 double the national average of pedestrian deaths.
09:51:05 At the same time the area in front of the hotel has earned
09:51:07 the dubious number one spot on TPD's highest crash list.
09:51:14 There have been 20 accidents in the vicinity of Hogan's over
09:51:27 the recent 90-day period, and approximately 120 crashes per
09:51:33 year.
09:51:36 For comparison that is nearly double the accident rate as
09:51:40 the second highest intersection in the City of Tampa.
09:51:42 Compare the 120 crashes per year here now to 2011, the year
09:51:48 before Hogan's opened, and the city's worst crash site at
09:51:49 Hillsborough Avenue and 40th Street, over a three-year
09:51:57 period.
09:52:00 We are not assigning responsibility for the increase in
09:52:04 crashes, only acknowledging that the area's accident rate
09:52:05 is worsening quickly --
09:52:08 (Bell sounds)
09:52:08 -- and at the same time they are inviting more and more
09:52:12 pedestrians and bicyclists to ride the trail between Hogan's
09:52:16 and highway 60.
09:52:17 This is being used as a concert venue and we also believe
09:52:24 the difficulty to maintain safety and traffic flow on a high
09:52:27 speed highway and we ask that you keep the safety and
09:52:32 well-being of residents and tourists in the city at this
09:52:36 location --
09:52:37 (Bell sounds)
09:52:38 And we ask that you --
09:52:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me stop and say this.
09:52:44 At 10:10 I will stop public hearing.
09:52:46 I have more people in line than I have for 10:10 so I am
09:52:50 asking if someone said what you have already said, please
09:52:53 remember, come up and make a short statement.
09:52:55 I appreciate it very much.
09:52:56 And try to have everybody feel at home.
09:52:59 I have got a full audience here on other matters that I have
09:53:02 to attend with, and I have to make sure everybody gets an
09:53:06 opportunity to speak.
09:53:06 Yes, ma'am.
09:53:07 >> Christine Ruekberg. I live at 2301 bay club circle, the
09:53:17 Island Club at Rocky Point, and I have been the manager
09:53:18 there for the last four years, the property manager, so I
09:53:21 get all the complaints.
09:53:22 And 398 petitions to the council for not allowing Hogan's
09:53:35 and the Best Western to expand.
09:53:39 Since this place has opened, our property has been invaded.
09:53:46 We have people crawling over, so they come in instead of
09:53:51 paying the $5 valet fee, they come in and park in our place,
09:53:55 they climb over the fences to get out.
09:54:01 And also, there's a picture that you don't see is the
09:54:09 parking garage, which is the Waterford building.
09:54:12 That has always been a nine to five office building.
09:54:15 Now they are allowed to have the Hogan's valet parking
09:54:18 there.
09:54:19 And they are having a concert till three in the morning and
09:54:25 the way valet people find their parking, their cars at
09:54:29 night, is they honk the horns.
09:54:31 They push the button.
09:54:32 The cars honk.
09:54:33 They find their cars.
09:54:34 These are 20 feet away from here.
09:54:40 It's their bedrooms.
09:54:41 You can see the palm, the fence and then the parking garage.
09:54:48 This is people's bedrooms.
09:54:49 And we have people moving out of the community because of
09:54:53 this situation.
09:54:55 I don't want to -- I have other people that need to speak.
09:54:59 But we also had to employ the police off-duty.
09:55:05 We paid $3,000 to keep people off of our property.
09:55:11 We just need the council's help to please, please, make it
09:55:18 hotel and just a bar, not a concert venue.
09:55:21 This place is too small for 2,000 people.
09:55:23 There's no place for them to park.
09:55:25 They come up and down the driveways.
09:55:27 They strip off their clothes and urinate on our property.
09:55:30 It's completely disgusting.
09:55:32 Please help us out in this matter.
09:55:34 Thank you.
09:55:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:55:39 Next, please.
09:55:39 >> Good morning.
09:55:42 My name is Nick Nichols, Dana drive, lived there about 23,
09:55:49 24 years.
09:55:51 I am better than a mile away from this facility and it
09:55:54 literally rattles the sliding glass doors on the pool
09:55:59 enclosure when they crank up the subbass.
09:56:02 I think they drum it up to drown out the quality perhaps of
09:56:07 the performers.
09:56:10 I am going to get to the point.
09:56:11 You heard many of these things.
09:56:12 Our major issue is with the parking.
09:56:14 Hogan's has to leave about -- lease about 900 additional
09:56:19 spaces to accommodate their crowd down there at the
09:56:24 Waterford.
09:56:26 The needs for the additional parking really is what creates
09:56:28 a lot of the problems to the adjacent residents in the
09:56:32 condominium you just heard about.
09:56:34 And it would seem that if Tampa were to enforce its existing
09:56:38 parking codes and regulations that it's got on the books --
09:56:42 and let me read a couple of these and I will pass on to the
09:56:46 next person -- Tampa's Land Development Code 27-283 .6
09:56:51 entitled methods of providing required parking and loading
09:56:54 indicates all parking shall be located on the same zoning
09:56:57 lot as the principle use it serves, unless a waiver has been
09:57:01 permitted.
09:57:03 Has the city already issued a waiver?
09:57:05 And maybe this is a moot point.
09:57:06 If not, that's not been brought before them, and you have
09:57:11 codes that address those.
09:57:18 I know we addressed these things and I will be brief.
09:57:20 One of the issues of the codes says if you dough have
09:57:23 off-site parking that it needs to be of the same type and
09:57:29 within 1,000 feet of the facility.
09:57:34 Hogan's is over here.
09:57:36 This red line is showing an area where people must transit
09:57:41 where there are not sidewalks.
09:57:43 This yellow line is using the bicycle paths used by joggers,
09:57:47 bicyclists, and others, and this red path again, there is no
09:57:51 sidewalk.
09:57:52 That's about 1200 some odd feet for people to be able to
09:57:56 transit to get from Hogan's facilities to the parking garage
09:58:00 where the cars are parked.
09:58:02 And a good portion that is adjacent to the Courtney Campbell
09:58:06 causeway with the traffic and other such things.
09:58:13 Again, some of the people don't want to pay for the fees to
09:58:16 have their cars parked.
09:58:18 They have to wait an hour, hour and a half to get their cars
09:58:21 out of the facility.
09:58:24 One of the instances where someone did not want to pay for
09:58:26 parking.
09:58:27 Last summer, a young lady named Lynn MADELLA lost her life
09:58:33 when she and her husband dashed across highway 60 after
09:58:36 leaving Hogan's so they could save bucks on a parking fee.
09:58:42 So you have one death.
09:58:43 It would seem that any future expansion, approval of any
09:58:48 future expansion, can certain exacerbate the situation we
09:58:51 have already got.
09:58:53 According to Tampa zoning and Land Development Code section
09:58:56 27-132 concerning regulations governing individual,
09:59:03 particularly relating to alcohol and beverage sales, all
09:59:07 applications shall comply with parking requirement in effect
09:59:10 at the time of the application and continue to be applicable
09:59:14 section of this chapter.
09:59:16 The application, they do have an existing operation.
09:59:20 We respectfully request that Hogan's maximum capacity be
09:59:25 reset to be consistent with the adopted city regulation and
09:59:28 be capped according to the 321 spaces they have available
09:59:33 for the existing hotel, restaurant and bar use.
09:59:37 We thank you very much for your consideration.
09:59:39 Of using your existing authority.
09:59:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I go any further how many are
09:59:44 going to speak to item number 7 that are lined up?
09:59:47 All right.
09:59:49 I have 12 minutes left and I am going to stop in 12 minutes
09:59:51 so if you want to take 2 minutes each that's fine.
09:59:55 If not I am going to stop it at 10:10.
09:59:57 Next.
09:59:57 >> I'm Allison Roberts. I am president of the Dana Shores
10:00:02 civic association.
10:00:11 You had to suffer this for the last 30 minutes.
10:00:13 We suffered for the last two years.
10:00:16 We have worked with EPC, worked with TPD, we have worked
10:00:19 directly with Hogan's to try to resolve the issue, and yet
10:00:23 it continues to get louder, they continue to have more
10:00:26 concert events, and they continue to draw bigger crowds,
10:00:30 which is creating more and more --
10:00:38 Living there is like having a massive bass thumping car pull
10:00:42 up to your front lawn on a Friday afternoon and stay the
10:00:48 weekend.
10:00:49 We ask that Hogan's Beach bar comply with rules and
10:00:53 regulations and ask that you pay special attention to the
10:00:56 source of their noise.
10:00:57 We specifically ask for three things.
10:00:59 We ask all outdoor assembles be halted, and if they have a
10:01:09 New Year's Eve party, a few years ago we had over 5,000
10:01:13 people at that event.
10:01:16 Number 2.
10:01:18 When Hogan's Beach compares themselves to a stand alone
10:01:23 beach bar restaurant like Bahama breeze,.
10:01:28 (Bell sounds)
10:01:35 And we ask restaurant/bar parking for those who are not
10:01:46 hotel patrons based on those 50 spaces.
10:01:50 Section 27-150, zoning petitions for six months and public
10:01:57 health, safety and welfare to individual property rights.
10:01:59 We ask you take action today.
10:02:06 Thank you.
10:02:06 >> Next please.
10:02:07 >> Bryan hillstein, property manager at Post Bay, Rocky
10:02:11 Point in the south side, just a couple hundred yards from
10:02:14 Hogan's Beach, also representing Post Rocky Point from north
10:02:18 side of the island, over 1500 residents.
10:02:21 And we are concerned about the type of events being held and
10:02:25 the type of incidents that occurred because of these events.
10:02:33 Causing thousands of dollars of damage, parking spaces
10:02:36 designed for our resident and for the property.
10:02:41 And from the backside of our property.
10:02:43 And they are tailgating, they are pregaming, they are
10:02:47 leaving beer cans and trash on the property, hopping our
10:02:50 fences, and causing altercations with our residents on the
10:02:57 property who are confronting them.
10:02:59 In addition to them coming onto our property, they are
10:03:03 parking up and down Rocky Point drive and parking in Rocky
10:03:07 Point drive they are preventing emergency vehicle access to
10:03:10 the area which is a cause for concern.
10:03:12 And overall, long time residents are moving out because of
10:03:17 the chaos that Hogan's brings to the area.
10:03:20 Any expansion creates a danger to all the residential
10:03:22 properties at Rocky Point and the patients themselves.
10:03:26 An accident is waiting to happen at State Road 60 and Rocky
10:03:29 Point drive.
10:03:31 The type of events being held at Hogan's Beach are not
10:03:34 suitable for the area or logistical and any expansion should
10:03:38 not be considered.
10:03:39 Thank you.
10:03:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:03:41 Next, please.
10:03:41 >> Mike Rose.
10:03:59 I'm the general manager of the Doubletree hotel on Rocky
10:04:02 Point.
10:04:03 And I'm here to echo my support for the residents and other
10:04:08 businesses which you heard for the past 30 minutes.
10:04:13 Hogan's is where the red do it is.
10:04:15 My hotel is -- dot.
10:04:18 And in addition total noise issue that my customers are
10:04:21 experiencing and the money I have to refund to them, because
10:04:24 when you travel, the last thing you want in a hotel is to
10:04:26 have a concert going on at 3:00 in the morning.
10:04:29 And I have to take care of my customers because that's what
10:04:34 we do.
10:04:34 Additionally the parking is a grave issue because the
10:04:40 parking at their business location makes the patrons troll
10:04:45 for parking and they often try to find a place to park in my
10:04:48 lot.
10:04:49 Recently in October I received a call from the valet manager
10:04:54 asking my permission, could I sublet some of my spaces.
10:04:57 I denied that request stating that I was full, and I wished
10:05:02 him the best of luck.
10:05:03 That evening, I had fights in my parking lot.
10:05:08 We had the police called to the hotel for drug use in the
10:05:10 parking lot.
10:05:11 And these are not patrons of my hotel.
10:05:14 They were concert goers from Hogan's.
10:05:17 So we have now hired security.
10:05:22 People pulling in our parking lots, and as you can imagine
10:05:26 that's disruptive to my business because those who need to
10:05:31 be there have to show their I de.
10:05:34 Thank you.
10:05:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Question, sir.
10:05:37 How many people have you actually had to refund their money?
10:05:42 How many guests have you actually had to refund for the
10:05:44 room?
10:05:44 >> I don't have that particular information with me.
10:05:49 In my estimation, it's a hand full, two or three on a couple
10:05:55 of the concerts that took place recently.
10:05:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:05:59 >> Robert Saltzman, 3926 Versailles drive, and been there
10:06:08 about 25 years, when I came to Tampa from Hollywood, Florida
10:06:11 in 1975 to go to USF.
10:06:13 My first job was at the hotel and that's the reason I live
10:06:17 there.
10:06:18 I think it's the most beautiful gateway to Tampa.
10:06:23 We are famous for a lot of things, not pedestrians and
10:06:27 bicycle safety unfortunately.
10:06:31 It's the bridge to Clearwater.
10:06:33 It's the first time my wife and son took a bicycle ride over
10:06:36 that bridge.
10:06:37 They turned around at Hogan and are afraid to go past there.
10:06:41 I
10:06:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:06:52 >> Ralph Snyder, also a resident.
10:06:58 Please forgive the sunglasses.
10:07:00 I'm not in the witness protection program.
10:07:01 I just happened to have eye surgery a couple of days ago so
10:07:04 trying to protect the eyes.
10:07:06 First, as an 8 year resident of the Dana Shores neighborhood
10:07:15 and married to someone that's been there 20 years I can
10:07:18 attest total obnoxious noise in the neighborhood by allowed
10:07:24 outdoor concert venue in an area that was never intended for
10:07:27 allowed outdoor concert venue.
10:07:30 The way I see it, the zoning codes ordinances and
10:07:33 designations are at the end of the day designed to help
10:07:36 guide individuals, neighborhoods and businesses top act as
10:07:46 good neighbors with one another.
10:07:48 On certain occasions someone will move into an area without
10:07:51 regard or respect for what surrounds them, what came there
10:07:53 before them, and what will be there after them.
10:07:56 It should be clear to Hogan's and anyone with eyes and
10:07:59 especially ears that they are an active and ongoing threat
10:08:02 to the health, welfare, safety and property of the those who
10:08:06 live work and play in their shared backyard.
10:08:10 Therefore, in light of this establishment to adequately
10:08:14 respond to the pleas of their neighbor and blaze ant
10:08:18 disregard to the surrounding neighborhood, I add my voice
10:08:21 and that of my wife to the chorus of those who plead to this
10:08:25 council.
10:08:27 Hogan's Beach is in clear violation of city codes and
10:08:30 ordinances.
10:08:32 There are places for outdoor concert venues, as there should
10:08:35 be, Rocky Point however is not one of them.
10:08:39 We believe that Hogue app's beach can be a better neighbor
10:08:42 but they are going to require a little help from you nice
10:08:45 ladies and gentlemen on the council.
10:08:46 Thank you.
10:08:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:08:47 Next, please.
10:08:48 >>> Susan Long, 921 east broad.
10:08:53 I live on the opposite side of Tampa, almost the exact
10:08:57 opposite side of Tampa, and I have had phone calls from
10:08:59 several residents who live in Dana Shores asking for help to
10:09:03 get this resolved.
10:09:05 Their statement is, we live over a mile from this place, in
10:09:10 a living room with TV on and the windows closed, the windows
10:09:13 shaking, we can't hear the TV.
10:09:14 They also say there's a parking issue.
10:09:17 Looking at the numbers that they are actually bringing in
10:09:19 5,000 people periodically.
10:09:20 They have 361, I believe, parking spaces.
10:09:24 Where are those cars supposed to go?
10:09:25 They can park on Ben T. Davis beach, I suppose, walk from
10:09:32 there to Hogan's Beach.
10:09:34 There's a little more than a thousand feet, and the
10:09:37 ordinances say within a thousand feet, behind the parking
10:09:43 lot, public right-of-way,.
10:09:46 There is not sufficient parking for what they are doing and
10:09:48 the noise is inordinately inappropriate for the location.
10:09:52 Thank you.
10:09:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:09:53 All right.
10:09:54 This council has heard item number 7 by many, many good
10:09:59 citizens who have stated their cause, and we understand.
10:10:01 So when we get to item number 7 we'll take it up.
10:10:04 Anyone else who wants to speak to any item other than number
10:10:07 7 on the agenda?
10:10:08 I see no one.
10:10:15 Requests of this council for prior legislative matters? I
10:10:18 see none.
10:10:20 Mr. Harry Cohen.
10:10:22 >>HARRY COHEN: In the interest of moving things along this
10:10:23 morning I am going to ask to continue items number 3, 4 and
10:10:27 6 to our next regularly scheduled council meeting on January
10:10:31 8th.
10:10:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to be clear, that is the domestic
10:10:38 partnership issue, the parking issue, and the chickens.
10:10:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by
10:10:49 Mrs. Capin, I believe, for items 3, 4 and 6.
10:10:56 Further discussion by come up members?
10:11:00 >>HARRY COHEN: January 8th.
10:11:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We make it for January 8th.
10:11:03 That motion for January 8th under staff reports at 9:00
10:11:07 in the morning for 2015.
10:11:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For chickens?
10:11:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 3, 4 and 6.
10:11:16 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
10:11:18 Opposed nay.
10:11:20 3, 4 and 6 are taken care of.
10:11:22 We go to item number 5.
10:11:28 Item number 5.
10:11:29 >> You are going to consider item number 66?
10:11:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: After 10:00.
10:11:41 I am going to do what I have to do now.
10:11:43 Item number 5.
10:11:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If it's okay with council, I would also
10:11:50 continue item number 5.
10:11:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by --
10:11:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If it's okay with Mr. Snelling.
10:11:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
10:12:01 Discussion by council members?
10:12:02 Item number 5.
10:12:05 The date will be January 8th, the year 2015 at 9:00 in
10:12:09 the morning.
10:12:10 Any further discussion?
10:12:12 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
10:12:15 Opposed nay.
10:12:16 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:12:17 All right.
10:12:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: An early present, Mr. Snelling.
10:12:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have not opened any of the items.
10:12:29 Counselor, Mr. Shelby, item number 66, the procedures are --
10:12:32 >> if it's council's pleasure to take that up now.
10:12:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It says a review hearing.
10:12:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There's staff probably sitting here
10:12:52 waiting and we can move item 11 so they can get back to work
10:12:56 so I move approval of item number 11.
10:12:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Under staff reports, I have a motion to
10:13:01 move item number 11 which is a form of pay microsoft for use
10:13:06 of their software.
10:13:08 Do we have a second by Mrs. Montelione's motion?
10:13:11 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick on a close vote with Mrs.
10:13:13 Capin.
10:13:14 All in favor of the motion for item number 11?
10:13:18 Opposed?
10:13:19 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:13:20 >> (off microphone)
10:13:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 10 and 12, I have no problem with those.
10:13:31 10 and 11.
10:13:33 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione on 10 and 11.
10:13:36 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
10:13:38 Further discussion by council members?
10:13:40 All in favor of the motion to move those two items, please
10:13:42 signify by saying aye.
10:13:44 Opposed?
10:13:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:13:46 Okay.
10:13:47 I want to be clear on this.
10:13:49 Item 66, it says review hearing.
10:13:53 It's still a public hearing for review so we open the
10:13:55 hearing.
10:13:56 Am I correct?
10:13:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
10:13:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick to open
10:14:00 item number 66 only at this time under public hearing.
10:14:03 Do I have a second?
10:14:04 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:14:05 Further discussion by council members?
10:14:07 All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye.
10:14:10 Opposed nay.
10:14:11 Item number 66 is now open.
10:14:14 I'm announcing that 66 is now open.
10:14:17 And I'm asking council attorney for an introduction.
10:14:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Tampa City Council attorney.
10:14:28 I'm here on the recommended order of Steven Fifer, the
10:14:32 hearing officer pertaining to the zoning administrator
10:14:35 approving a PD incremental plan review for 402 knights run
10:14:44 in Tampa, Florida.
10:14:45 I would like to ask senior assistant city attorney Rebecca
10:14:49 Kert to talk to the matter and the process that brought you
10:14:54 here.
10:14:55 >>REBECCA KERT: Assistant city attorney.
10:14:58 Very briefly.
10:14:59 On July 30th, the zoning administrator approved a
10:15:02 request for incremental site plan review for the property
10:15:05 located at 402 knights Avenue.
10:15:10 On August 12, a petition for review was filed.
10:15:13 Your code provides the petition for review of a zoning
10:15:19 administrator permit which includes an incremental detailed
10:15:22 site plan, that a de novo hearing will be held on that
10:15:25 matter.
10:15:26 Typically, that de novo hearing would be held by City
10:15:29 Council.
10:15:30 However, the code does provide an alternative process.
10:15:33 And your code states in the alternative a petition for
10:15:37 review may elect to have the decision reviewed pursuant to
10:15:40 subsection 1 above, and in that instance the hearing officer
10:15:43 will provide a recommended order to City Council for a final
10:15:45 order.
10:15:46 That alternative process was requested by the petitioner.
10:15:50 Therefore, on October 28th, a hearing was held before a
10:15:55 hearing officer.
10:15:57 On November 12th an order was issued by that hearing
10:15:59 officer.
10:16:01 And on December 4, the petitioner filed acceptance to that
10:16:05 order as well as a request for oral argument.
10:16:11 The order, the decision of the hearing officer, is here
10:16:14 before you for limited review, and Mr. Shelby will further
10:16:19 explain the procedure going forward.
10:16:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:16:28 Just to state again that there was a de novo fully noticed
10:16:33 public hearing before the hearing officer and all persons at
10:16:35 the time were given the opportunity to testify and present
10:16:38 evidence.
10:16:40 Council, this is a quasi-judicial.
10:16:43 This is not a legislative matter.
10:16:44 You are acting in a quasi-judicial capacity here.
10:16:48 But it's important to make the distinction.
10:16:50 This is not a rezoning hearing.
10:16:53 So as such it cannot be treated the same as a rezoning.
10:16:59 You are here under the specific guidance and under the
10:17:03 direction of your code of ordinances section 27-61-J-1.
10:17:10 And the reason why you are here today in the forum in which
10:17:16 we are conducting this, a more formal forum, is because even
10:17:20 though you have had recently recommendations by hearing
10:17:25 officers, this is the first time under this section of the
10:17:28 code that there has been an exception filed to the
10:17:34 recommended order that you must also consider.
10:17:37 So that's what makes this somewhat different today.
10:17:41 I would also like to remind you, council, that this is a
10:17:44 closed record review.
10:17:46 There is no new additional testimony.
10:17:52 And you have received everything that the hearing officer
10:17:56 had.
10:17:58 In addition to the transcript of the testimony, the
10:18:01 exhibits, the recommended order, Mr. Grandoff's exception to
10:18:05 the recommended order and request for oral argument as well
10:18:08 as summary or arguments of the parties, the original
10:18:13 applicants represented, I believe, by Mr. Allen, Mr.
10:18:19 Grandoff is representing the petitioner, and the city he's
10:18:23 position.
10:18:25 You have the opportunity which is the hearing officer by
10:18:28 Rebecca Kert.
10:18:29 So this is a closed record review by council, and as such
10:18:36 you are asked to make your decision based on the record
10:18:40 below.
10:18:40 So at this time, council, what I am going to ask whether you
10:18:47 have reviewed the record including the transcript and are
10:18:52 prepared to proceed.
10:18:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before we do that, Mrs. Mulhern wants the
10:18:57 floor.
10:18:57 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) I don't know if you can
10:19:03 answer this, Mr. Shelby.
10:19:05 But the fact that this is the first time this has happened,
10:19:10 this is because this is a newer process that we adopted, is
10:19:14 that correct?
10:19:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't recall exactly when this was
10:19:17 adopted.
10:19:20 Several years old.
10:19:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's new.
10:19:24 That was my question.
10:19:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
10:19:28 So getting back to the question as to whether council
10:19:33 members have reviewed the record including the transcript
10:19:36 and are prepared to proceed, is everyone prepared to
10:19:38 proceed?
10:19:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
10:19:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Everybody is saying yes.
10:19:42 Is there any member of City Council who has not reviewed the
10:19:44 record?
10:19:45 I don't see any response to that question.
10:19:50 So that being said, it's time for us to handle how
10:19:55 communications that were made and received are going to be
10:20:00 handled by City Council.
10:20:02 Now, the communications that were made to the hearing
10:20:04 officer are in the record.
10:20:08 After the record is closed, the hearing officer receives
10:20:12 argument from the parties, and then renders a recommended
10:20:16 order which is before council today.
10:20:20 Now, after that point is when you may have received
10:20:29 communication.
10:20:32 This is where this is somewhat different, because this is
10:20:34 governed under 27-61.
10:20:37 This is somewhat different than a rezoning hearing in that
10:20:42 those items that have been received outside of 27-61, in
10:20:49 other words, the record itself plus the exception and the
10:20:53 request for oral argument, those items cannot be considered
10:20:58 by City Council, and that is because the code does not
10:21:06 permit it.
10:21:08 So to members of the public who may have sent you items,
10:21:14 which they certainly have the right to do, let you know and
10:21:18 let them know that under the way this hearing is to be
10:21:21 conducted, though communications cannot be considered.
10:21:25 They will, however, at the end of the hearing, after you
10:21:28 have rendered whatever decision you made, those items will
10:21:30 be entered and received and filed just segregated so they
10:21:36 will be included in the file so that anybody reviewing this
10:21:39 record would know what those communications were.
10:21:46 Again, I am going to ask you with regard to communications
10:21:49 that you receive outside the record and the material that
10:21:53 you have, do not consider them in your deliberations.
10:21:57 Now, I also noted on the agenda, council, today, that number
10:22:03 66 on your agenda says that there is a letter from Mr.
10:22:08 Grandoff transmitting his exception to the recommended order
10:22:10 and a request for oral argument, to be received and filed.
10:22:14 Now, just so that there's no ambiguity about this, you
10:22:19 already received that.
10:22:20 That was part of the packet that was transmitted to you.
10:22:23 But because it hasn't been formally received and filed per
10:22:26 the clerk into the record, before council proceeds, I would
10:22:29 ask that council do that at this time.
10:22:31 Those two items.
10:22:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to receive and file.
10:22:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved by Councilman month, seconded by
10:22:42 Mr. Suarez.
10:22:42 Further discussion by council members at this time?
10:22:47 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:22:49 Opposed nay.
10:22:50 The motion passed unanimously.
10:22:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now we come to the next issue which is the
10:22:55 oral argument.
10:22:58 As I stated, you have the record below, the transcript of
10:23:02 the testimony, the exhibits, the recommended order of the
10:23:05 arguments of the parties, Mr. Grandoff's exception and the
10:23:08 recommended order.
10:23:10 Items requested for oral argument.
10:23:12 Under 27-61, members of council, the parties or the public
10:23:17 are not required to be heard in this process.
10:23:23 As stated earlier, it is a public hearing in the sense that
10:23:25 it was set for a time certain with notice to the parties,
10:23:31 but this section of the code sets forth when and how you
10:23:36 determine whether to take public comment.
10:23:41 Under the code, the council may only have oral argument if
10:23:46 certain criteria are met, and then the City Council has to
10:23:49 make a specific finding if the criteria were met.
10:23:55 And that has to be according to the code here.
10:24:00 I would like to read to you what it says of the.
10:24:02 And I am reading from 27-61, day two, oral argument.
10:24:11 I think I got that right.
10:24:13 City Council may only allow public discussion upon the
10:24:15 request for oral argument filed by a party or upon its own
10:24:19 motion.
10:24:20 City Council may only open the meeting for oral argument if
10:24:27 City Council finds that the hearing officer did not address
10:24:30 a matter introduced into the record or the recommended order
10:24:34 contains an ambiguity.
10:24:37 If City Council allows oral argument, City Council may limit
10:24:41 such oral arguments to addressing only those matters for
10:24:44 which it opened for oral argument.
10:24:49 Two, parties must file their requests for oral argument
10:24:52 concurrent with the filing of an exception.
10:24:56 The request shall be based upon the criteria described in
10:25:00 subsection 1 above which I just read to you.
10:25:05 The City Council attorney shall review the request for oral
10:25:08 argument and make a recommendation as to whether the request
10:25:11 for oral argument meets the criteria.
10:25:16 I am required by this section of the code to give you a
10:25:20 recommendation.
10:25:24 And it is my recommendation after reviewing the request for
10:25:29 oral argument filed by Mr. Grandoff that the criteria has
10:25:34 not been met.
10:25:36 Again, that is my recommendation, my basis and finding with
10:25:42 regard to whether the request for oral argument meets the
10:25:45 criteria, again that it either is -- that the officers did
10:25:56 not address a matter introduced into the record or the
10:25:59 recommended order contains an ambiguity.
10:26:03 In the event council approves the request for oral
10:26:07 argument ---reading from subsection 3 now -- the content of
10:26:12 the testimony shall be the same as the content of testimony
10:26:15 submitted verbally or in writing to the hearing officers.
10:26:18 If City Council permits oral argument, it shall allow staff
10:26:22 and each party up to ten minutes for oral argument -- excuse
10:26:25 me, oral presentation or argument.
10:26:27 Not-party participants may be permitted oral presentation of
10:26:31 up to three minutes.
10:26:33 No person may submit new evidence to the City Council during
10:26:36 oral argument, and all persons must confine their
10:26:39 presentation to evidence made part of the record before the
10:26:46 hearing officer.
10:26:48 Now, the point to remember is that you have a threshold
10:26:54 question here now, and that is, is the criteria under the
10:27:04 code that is required met, and does that therefore mean that
10:27:09 City Council wishes to take action to take oral argument,
10:27:13 which would require a motion, and a vote with the factual
10:27:20 basis of the criteria that I read into the record.
10:27:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
10:27:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask the chair for clarification.
10:27:30 Did you say allow oral argument be limited to ten minutes?
10:27:34 Did you say that?
10:27:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, I said allow ten minutes per party.
10:27:38 There are three parties.
10:27:39 And then non-party participants.
10:27:41 And I believe Mrs. Kert has the exact definition of what a
10:27:45 party participant is but I believe there were two of them
10:27:48 who were at the hearing.
10:27:50 They would be limited to throw minutes.
10:27:53 And again, if council allows oral argument, City Council may
10:27:57 limit such argument to addressing only those matters for
10:28:00 which it opens oral argument.
10:28:02 And again, this is required by a finding and action of
10:28:07 council.
10:28:09 So that being said, are there any other questions?
10:28:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Shelby, you made a comment during the
10:28:18 criteria necessary and your recommendation as to this.
10:28:22 And you are saying we would have a narrow scope as part of
10:28:27 the record.
10:28:27 What is your reading as to what be that narrow scope would
10:28:30 be based on the record?
10:28:33 You made a comment that oral argument, if we open oral
10:28:37 argument, it would have to be based on a very narrow space
10:28:41 as part of the hearing itself.
10:28:44 What is your basis of what it may be if we open up oral
10:28:49 argument?
10:28:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The way I read 27-61 is that there are
10:28:55 issues that are contained in Mr. Grandoff's exception.
10:29:05 But as to your finding, as to whether to have oral argument,
10:29:13 27-61 says it has to be based on the fact that there is
10:29:18 something in the hearing officer's recommendation that is
10:29:23 missing or that the order contains an ambiguity.
10:29:26 >> So we would have to make the determination first to allow
10:29:31 oral argument, not the other way around, meaning we open
10:29:34 oral argument and Mr. Grandoff would then say this is where
10:29:37 the hearing officer missed a particular issue, is that
10:29:41 correct?
10:29:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is correct.
10:29:45 That is Mr. Grandoff's burden when he makes the request for
10:29:48 the oral argument.
10:29:51 And that is something that you have an opportunity to
10:29:54 review.
10:29:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
10:30:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are finished, Mr. Shelby?
10:30:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, unless there are other questions.
10:30:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Mulhern, then Mrs. Montelione.
10:30:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I have read the transcript and pretty much
10:30:16 all the backup.
10:30:18 I still have some questions, if my colleagues are ready to
10:30:27 vote.
10:30:32 We are going to hear from Mr. Grandoff, right?
10:30:37 >> No.
10:30:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I think it's important, council, one last
10:30:40 thing to let you know before you consider this, because it
10:30:42 does -- I'm sorry.
10:30:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me finish.
10:30:51 This is a voluminous record.
10:30:53 And this process rather than the hearing officer had
10:31:02 occurred, an option which the commissioner didn't choose,
10:31:09 that would have taken us instead of one person hearing the
10:31:12 case, we would have had seven hearing it, and had some
10:31:16 questions.
10:31:17 So this would have been many days taken up to get through
10:31:23 all of this.
10:31:25 So what I'm saying is -- and I just now, the one thing I
10:31:31 didn't read was what you are reading to us now, which makes
10:31:37 it -- I feel like I need to go back and look through the
10:31:41 transcript to figure out what my decision is about this.
10:31:52 And I guess if nobody else feels that way, then it doesn't
10:31:56 matter.
10:31:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Whether you do or don't have oral
10:32:09 argument, let me state to you what this section of the code
10:32:16 requires you to do.
10:32:21 City Council may adopt the recommended order as the final
10:32:24 order.
10:32:26 And I'm reading from subsection 3, the final order.
10:32:30 City Council may adopt the recommended order as the final
10:32:32 order, or may reject or modify the recommended order as
10:32:37 provided herein.
10:32:41 City Council may not reject or modify any findings of fact
10:32:47 reached by the hearing officer.
10:32:49 Let me repeat that.
10:32:51 Under the code, City Council may not reject or modify any
10:32:55 findings of fact reached by the hearing officer.
10:32:59 If the City Council determines that a finding of fact is not
10:33:03 based upon competent substantial evidence contained in the
10:33:06 record, or that a finding of fact does not comply with the
10:33:12 special requirements of law, City Council may remand the
10:33:14 matter back to the hearing officer, but only if it's
10:33:19 determined that additional fact finding is required.
10:33:24 If City Council rejects or modifies a conclusion of law, it
10:33:28 must state with particularity in the final order its reasons
10:33:33 and must make a finding -- must make a finding that its
10:33:39 substitution of a conclusion of law is as or more reasonable
10:33:44 than that which was rejected or modified.
10:33:47 If City Council directs staff to prepare AP revised final
10:33:51 order, the revised final order shall be transmitted to the
10:33:54 parties and non-party participants and presented to City
10:33:57 Council within 45 calendar days for adoption.
10:34:02 And council, it would be my recommendation if you do do
10:34:04 that, if you do modify the order, that you do have it in
10:34:07 writing.
10:34:09 That would be the best way to proceed.
10:34:12 That's my advice on that.
10:34:14 So the burden in this case, under this process, for City
10:34:18 Council is a high burden.
10:34:22 And did you notice we talked about the three things that a
10:34:26 judge will look for if and when they review this record.
10:34:32 I know there's a court reporter here today and I would say
10:34:34 there's a high probability that regardless of what happens,
10:34:36 this record will be reviewed by a judge.
10:34:39 And we talk about what judges look for.
10:34:41 Judges look for whether due process was afforded, whether
10:34:44 there's competent, substantial evidence in the record, and
10:34:48 whether there were files, following the substantial
10:34:54 requirements of law.
10:34:55 In this case, members of council, 27-61 is the process.
10:35:01 That's the law.
10:35:02 For you to deviate from that would be to deviate from the
10:35:07 essential requirements of law.
10:35:09 These are not suggested recommendations.
10:35:11 These are the essential requirements that council needs to
10:35:14 follow in order for this process to proceed.
10:35:19 So that being said, it is City Council's determination at
10:35:27 this point.
10:35:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Finished?
10:35:33 >>MARY MULHERN: For now, yes.
10:35:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione, then Mrs. Capin.
10:35:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Shelby.
10:35:40 You know, you see me writing and highlighting here, because
10:35:43 I read all of these documents on my tablet, which I cannot
10:35:49 highlight and underline make notes in.
10:35:52 So that is something that you see me doing if you are
10:35:55 wondering why I am highlighting things right now.
10:35:59 When I read the materials provided -- and yes, it was
10:36:05 voluminous, and did take a lot of time to read everything
10:36:09 that was provided and look at the references that were made
10:36:12 in the exception to the recommended order that were
10:36:16 referenced by the hearing master, and that were highlighted
10:36:20 by the documents, the closing statements, documents from
10:36:28 both sides, and, you know, in light of what Mr. Shelby has
10:36:37 said, looking at the exceptions to the recommended order
10:36:43 that was filed by Mr. Grandoff, I went through and looked at
10:36:47 every point, and I can say that the hearing master had
10:36:58 reviewed the documents, had taken testimony, and the points
10:37:06 that he makes satisfy, at least in my mind, the points of
10:37:17 exception that Mr. Grandoff filed.
10:37:21 I can take a couple -- I am not going to go through every
10:37:25 one but I can take a couple of them, and illustrate why I
10:37:29 feel that the hearing master addressed the points, if that
10:37:33 would be appropriate, Mr. Shelby.
10:37:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, the record then -- if we start
10:37:53 saying what was right, it's already on the record that you
10:37:58 agree with it if you vote for it.
10:38:00 If you are going to make a motion on something for oral
10:38:03 argument that you don't like, you have to be specific enough
10:38:05 to state it what you believe taken out and discuss that one
10:38:09 item only.
10:38:10 I mean, that's --
10:38:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I guess what I am saying is when I
10:38:15 reviewed the exceptions to the recommended order that we are
10:38:18 basing whether or not we are going to hear from the
10:38:21 petitioner and the respondents today --
10:38:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.
10:38:28 This is not a hearing where you have to go back to a chapter
10:38:31 and say why you are for it or why you are against it.
10:38:34 This is altogether separate from that.
10:38:36 This is a different type of hearing.
10:38:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I understand that.
10:38:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, the best way to answer that
10:38:43 question would be, if I understand your position, you are
10:38:47 saying that based on your review of the record, you find no
10:38:51 basis under the code to allow --
10:38:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That is exactly what I was saying and I
10:38:58 was asking whether or not I need to illustrate that.
10:39:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The answer to that is no.
10:39:03 However, if there is a motion made to have oral argument,
10:39:07 and that motion is seconded, there will be discussion for
10:39:09 the motion.
10:39:10 So, therefore, that might be relevant at that point to
10:39:14 discuss why you may disagree with what the maker of the
10:39:17 motion's basis is.
10:39:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
10:39:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else, Mrs. Montelione?
10:39:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, sir.
10:39:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin.
10:39:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I just want to bring up another option, and
10:39:29 I am going to preference this because although this hearing
10:39:34 officer, these proceedings, this transcript dated October
10:39:38 28th, and it was forwarded to the clerk's office, I did
10:39:45 not have this in my office until Monday.
10:39:51 And that to me, when you have hundreds of pages, it was on
10:40:01 our agenda, but we were not notified.
10:40:07 We got this transcript was at the clerk's office.
10:40:10 Now, and Mrs. Kert is here.
10:40:14 Something that I brought up to her when we went over this.
10:40:19 So when I looked at it, I have read it.
10:40:23 I read the exception, read the transcript, but I also have
10:40:27 to say that there's an argument here for continuance.
10:40:35 And that was an option that you did not bring up.
10:40:38 And I have to bring it up because it's something that's very
10:40:47 important.
10:40:49 It's very important that we did not have -- it was not -- we
10:40:53 were not notified.
10:40:55 I know Mrs. Kert checked with the clerk's office to make
10:40:59 sure that this was there two or three times, but it was
10:41:04 transmitted to us?
10:41:07 In a, so I need to make that very clear.
10:41:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:41:11 Anyone else who has not spoken?
10:41:14 Back to Mrs. Mulhern.
10:41:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I think the more that I flip through
10:41:20 here and see things that I haven't been able to read, I
10:41:26 think a continuance is a good idea.
10:41:28 Especially considering that we have heard from the
10:41:35 petitioner that I think publicly has said that, you know,
10:41:42 this will be challenged in court.
10:41:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I interrupt you?
10:41:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:41:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe you are referring to a letter
10:41:50 that was sent to City Council?
10:41:52 Or did you hear that from the petitioner personally?
10:41:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I might have read it in the paper.
10:42:02 I did, I read it in the paper.
10:42:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I will also state to you that there are
10:42:07 more than just Mr. Grandoff and his clients that are parties
10:42:11 to this action.
10:42:14 Any one of the parties can bring an action.
10:42:17 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is why I think it's important.
10:42:25 A possibility, likelihood, that this will end up in court,
10:42:29 whereas if we might be able to have some more time to review
10:42:33 this and discuss it with our attorney, but our options are,
10:42:40 we might be able to resolve it here and avoid that.
10:42:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
10:42:47 >>MARY MULHERN: So I agree with Councilman Capin peen than
10:42:51 we should continue this.
10:42:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
10:42:53 Whether it's heard today or next week or next month or the
10:42:55 next five years, I don't wager much but I'm a betting man in
10:43:00 this case it will end up in court one way or the other.
10:43:02 There is no doubt in my mind when I see a court reporter and
10:43:06 a slew of attorneys and a crowd full of people that resolve
10:43:13 something sometime.
10:43:14 If it's not here, no matter what happens here, this is going
10:43:17 to end up in a higher tribunal, in the court system.
10:43:22 That's just my one little opinion.
10:43:24 But I have not had a motion.
10:43:26 I have had discussion by Mr. Mrs. Capin about a continuance.
10:43:30 There was no motion made.
10:43:33 >> I brought it up because --
10:43:36 >> No, I'm not corrupt.
10:43:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No, that's not what I said. (Laughter) For
10:43:37 the record, councilwoman Capin did not call the chairman
10:43:46 corrupt.
10:43:47 That did not happen.
10:43:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm joking.
10:43:52 (Laughter)
10:43:53 I brought it up because that was not an option that was
10:43:57 brought up, and I did discuss it when we had the review on
10:44:04 Monday or Tuesday.
10:44:06 I'm sorry.
10:44:09 I lose track of the day.
10:44:11 But I did bring it up then.
10:44:12 And that's the only reason I brought it up.
10:44:16 But it's up to my colleagues, you know.
10:44:20 As I said, I did read it.
10:44:22 I have read it.
10:44:22 I have it tabbed.
10:44:25 There's no reason other than that.
10:44:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say one thing.
10:44:30 Mr. Grandoff did call me, I believe, yesterday or the day
10:44:34 before about item 66, not about the context, not about the
10:44:39 decision, and he's here to answer anything you may want to.
10:44:42 It was about the timing of what time of the day it was going
10:44:44 to be heard.
10:44:45 And I said it was set for 10:00.
10:44:47 And I said sometime after 10.
10:44:51 We discussed the possibility of putting it, continuing to
10:44:54 the later part of the afternoon, and I had no problem with
10:44:58 either one of them until we got here, and then Mrs.
10:45:01 Montelione rightly made a decision to take it as close as we
10:45:05 can to 10:00 and that was the extent of the conversation Mr.
10:45:08 Grandoff and I had.
10:45:09 And I will put that on the record.
10:45:11 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:45:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to give a shot to having a
10:45:16 continuance of this so that we can really review this.
10:45:24 I mean, once reading this 350-page transcript and all the --
10:45:31 how many PDFs, like 30 different PDFs.
10:45:36 I wasn't able to look at every exhibit including any of the
10:45:41 visual site plans.
10:45:42 So I need time to feel like I'm making the right decision on
10:45:49 this.
10:45:54 So if anyone else is willing to second, to continue it to
10:45:58 our next regular meeting, which will be January 8th.
10:46:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:46:05 Do I have a second?
10:46:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am going to second that simply because
10:46:11 there is one council member that is not fully ready.
10:46:15 I think that in itself could require this.
10:46:21 That's the way I feel.
10:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mrs. Capin.
10:46:24 Let me say this.
10:46:24 The question was asked by the counselor to all council
10:46:28 members if they have read the document and every one said
10:46:31 yes.
10:46:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I also did ask whether we were prepared to
10:46:34 proceed.
10:46:35 That was my threshold question to council members.
10:46:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am.
10:46:40 >>JULIA MANDELL: Before you take a vote on the continuance
10:46:42 may I have an opportunity to speak with Mr. Shelby and Mrs.
10:46:45 Kert regarding procedurally where we would be at this
10:46:48 moment?
10:46:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll take a five-minute recess.
10:46:58 [Sounding gavel]
10:57:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Council is called back to order.
10:57:52 Roll call.
10:57:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
10:57:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
10:57:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
10:57:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
10:57:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
10:58:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
10:58:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:58:03 Councilor, Marty Shelby.
10:58:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there's a motion and second on
10:58:10 the floor for a continuance on this matter for January
10:58:12 8th.
10:58:16 Let me share with you, because there was a comment as to
10:58:21 giving you the opportunity to talk with your attorney.
10:58:24 Just to let you know, counselor, if there is a motion for a
10:58:28 continuance, it is my advice to you that you will not be
10:58:33 able to discuss this with anybody, and that means that if
10:58:41 you even receive a phone call, if you even receive an
10:58:46 e-mail, if you even see somebody on the street, and you talk
10:58:51 with them, or you read the e-mail, then what happens then,
10:58:59 council, is you are now in a position of moving outside this
10:59:03 hearing, and you jeopardize whatever decision this City
10:59:07 Council makes.
10:59:08 You have the potential then to taint the record, and even go
10:59:14 a step further, you will then be required to recuse yourself
10:59:21 and not participate because of bias.
10:59:25 That is the risk you take if you continue this.
10:59:28 I'm not saying that you don't have that prerogative, but I'm
10:59:31 telling you that is the risk you take.
10:59:32 More so, if it is found that you have had an ex parte
10:59:37 communication in some manner, even if it was disclosed, it
10:59:41 puts the city's position in jeopardy because it taints the
10:59:44 record and it opens the city to liability.
10:59:46 So that is a significant in this case that I want toe bring
10:59:52 to your attention.
10:59:52 The other thing I want to clarify is I may have made
10:59:56 reference to the parties in this case, just for
10:59:57 clarification sake.
10:59:58 The City of Tampa is not a party.
11:00:00 So I just want that to be clear for the record.
11:00:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mrs. Montelione and Mrs. Mulhern.
11:00:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, sir.
11:00:08 When you say reading an e-mail could possibly or would have
11:00:14 the effect of tainting the record, the way our e-mail
11:00:19 works -- and I'm sure many are familiar -- you have no
11:00:24 control who send you an e-mail unless you block certain
11:00:27 people, and we don't have that ability because we are a
11:00:30 public body, government, we can't block people from sending
11:00:33 it.
11:00:33 And we wouldn't know who would be sending the e-mail in the
11:00:36 first place.
11:00:39 We also can't control who comes up to us in a supermarket or
11:00:42 an event or a party and just say something.
11:00:47 When we get our e-mail, there is the name of the person the
11:00:50 e-mail is coming from, and the subject matter.
11:00:53 And if you have it set to show, you don't even have to open
11:00:58 the e-mail on the screen in front of you is the e-mail.
11:01:04 So I would personally say, I would have a very difficult
11:01:09 time ignoring any e-mail that was sent to me and not reading
11:01:16 it.
11:01:16 Just because it shows up on the screen whether you want to
11:01:20 open it or not.
11:01:21 I can change the setting but I would still see the subject
11:01:24 line, I would still see the first, you know, sentence, most
11:01:29 often, when it just arrives in my in-box.
11:01:32 So I think that would be a very, very difficult thing to
11:01:36 avoid.
11:01:37 And as well as having people who don't know that we can't
11:01:41 talk about it, just come up to us randomly.
11:01:45 I meat mean, we might go to a luncheon this afternoon which
11:01:49 several of us plan own going to the Chamber of Commerce, or
11:01:52 we had planned on going to it, and there's maybe a thousand
11:01:56 people there who aren't familiar with our rules, and
11:02:00 wouldn't know and say, how did that Harbor Island thing go
11:02:04 this morning?
11:02:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that is your burden.
11:02:08 And the problem is, it would be your obligation to not read
11:02:13 it, and it still would have to be disclosed, and I can't
11:02:18 tell you whether or not that would even cure any prejudice.
11:02:23 But obviously it would have to be made part of the record.
11:02:26 And again, you have risk taking the record.
11:02:34 >>JULIA MANDELL: I want to reiterate what Mr. Shelby said
11:02:36 about the importance of ensuring the lack of ex parte
11:02:40 communications in this matter given where we are
11:02:42 procedurally, and not just City Council members who I
11:02:47 understand Mrs. Montelione's point, things come in and
11:02:49 sometimes it's hard to distinguish.
11:02:51 The very folks in the audience that have been involved in
11:02:53 this.
11:02:54 It does not serve anybody's cause for this record to be
11:02:57 impaired.
11:02:58 It is appropriate and important that we have a full and fair
11:03:02 proceeding, and any official communication that comes to
11:03:05 you, that you accidentally read, not only undermines your
11:03:09 ability to be fair and impartial, as decision makers, and
11:03:15 impair it is record but also provides an opportunity for the
11:03:17 folks who sit behind me who are very interested and
11:03:20 concerned about this issue to a sure that that record cannot
11:03:22 be upheld if it goes any particular way.
11:03:25 So I am just asking you as council members to do the best
11:03:29 job you can to ensure, if in fact this is continued, to
11:03:32 ensure that you try to keep away from any additional
11:03:35 communication on this matter.
11:03:37 I am also asking the folks in the audience who are very
11:03:39 interested and involved to avoid any additional
11:03:43 conversations through e-mail or any other means, with
11:03:47 customer service center or any other opportunities to have
11:03:50 communications on this matter, we need to have a full and
11:03:54 fair hearing, full and fair proceeding, and that is the only
11:03:58 way to ensure it.
11:04:00 Thank you.
11:04:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Mulhern?
11:04:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, thank you.
11:04:03 We have been having quasi-judicial hearings, some of us, for
11:04:07 decades, and eight years and my colleagues for four, and we
11:04:14 know very well we can't have ex parte communications.
11:04:17 So I am glad you shared that with the audience.
11:04:22 My question is, Mr. Shelby, because you said my comment
11:04:28 before talking to our attorneys, I was talking about staff
11:04:33 attorneys including yourself, but you have indicated that
11:04:37 they are not parties to the lawsuit?
11:04:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to address this?
11:04:43 >>JULIA MANDELL: The City of Tampa is not a party.
11:04:45 We are a facilitator.
11:04:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:04:50 I don't understand why we needed that lecture but thank you.
11:04:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin and Mr. Reddick.
11:04:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: As far as the ex parte, I agree, we have
11:04:59 done this many of us for just about five years.
11:05:03 But besides that, the way I remedy that is unless my
11:05:07 legislative aide is also part of this and she does not talk
11:05:10 to me, she opens my e-mails.
11:05:12 I do not open my e-mails.
11:05:14 Nor do I look at them first.
11:05:16 I don't even have them come to me.
11:05:18 They do not -- I do not have -- that's part of -- just to be
11:05:24 sure that I am not reading anything I am not supposed to.
11:05:27 So I just want to let you know, that's how I handle that.
11:05:35 In reference to the continuance, you know, I stand with that
11:05:43 second, and because I do feel that we need the time.
11:05:49 And maybe not -- you know, again, maybe it came -- maybe it
11:05:55 was -- I think I was one of the first ones to have this in
11:05:59 my hands.
11:06:05 The transcript.
11:06:08 And that concerns me.
11:06:10 We did read it.
11:06:12 We did say we are ready.
11:06:13 And I feel that is very important.
11:06:19 But as we had a continuance before, it is the same procedure
11:06:24 as all the continuances when it's quasi-judicial.
11:06:29 So I will hear from my colleagues.
11:06:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick and Mr. Cohen.
11:06:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:06:36 Let me raise a question to you, because I don't support the
11:06:40 continuance, having a continuance.
11:06:46 I don't support this motion at all.
11:06:47 And I just want to know if there is not a unanimous vote for
11:06:52 this continuance, what is the legal process as we move
11:06:56 forward?
11:06:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Action of City Council requires a vote of
11:07:02 four.
11:07:03 So it would require a vote of at least four members in order
11:07:05 to grant a continuance.
11:07:07 If it does not go to four votes the motion fails and council
11:07:11 moves on.
11:07:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: What I am saying as far as a what we have
11:07:21 on this process.
11:07:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On this process?
11:07:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
11:07:25 Is there any legal recourse that could jeopardize this
11:07:29 process if there's not a unanimous vote?
11:07:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, from what I understand, early on,
11:07:37 because this issue could have come up earlier when I asked
11:07:41 the question if council was prepared to proceed, if council
11:07:45 had said no, they were not prepared to proceed, then we
11:07:48 could have taken up the issue of the continuance at that
11:07:50 time.
11:07:52 That was at a point when I had asked that question for that
11:07:55 purpose, because you do have an obligation to be prepared.
11:07:59 And council answered affirmative that they have reviewed the
11:08:03 record to where they could proceed, and I believe I used
11:08:06 those word.
11:08:06 So I understand the case now.
11:08:09 My view, I also recognize that what I did was say something
11:08:13 that they have raised in your mind raises an issue to me and
11:08:21 earlier in the week, I made sure that you were provided with
11:08:25 27-61, so you could review what it was and I sent a memo to
11:08:33 you with that regard.
11:08:34 So the answer is, as long as council is ready to proceed and
11:08:41 the motion fails, then I believe it would be appropriate for
11:08:47 council to continue, unless a come up member now wishes to
11:08:51 change their position as to what they had said earlier.
11:08:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, I'm just trying to determine if
11:08:58 there was any type of harm or burden if we place if we don't
11:09:07 have a unanimous vote.
11:09:09 Because let me just say this.
11:09:11 We all had opportunity, we got these documents and to read
11:09:14 all this stuff, and if everybody did have that
11:09:20 opportunity -- I sacrificed several hours of my time to sit
11:09:26 up here and read this back here and also the information
11:09:32 that you forward to us, and that Mrs. Kert forwarded to us,
11:09:37 and you raised the initial question, were we prepared to
11:09:40 proceed, I wish she would have made that known who had a
11:09:47 concern at that point instead of going through the
11:09:50 discussion about that.
11:09:52 So I came here prepared to proceed with this thing today,
11:09:57 and I'm disappointed that I waste a whole lot of my time
11:10:01 reading those 270 pages of transcript and all the other
11:10:06 attachments to it, and then come here, and then have a
11:10:10 motion to January 8th, and do I have to go back and
11:10:15 re-read all this stuff again?
11:10:19 And I don't think that's fair to those who took the time to
11:10:22 prepare, and prepare to be prepared today top proceed.
11:10:25 And so I'm not going to support the continuance.
11:10:29 And I hope those who took the time as I did to prepare for
11:10:33 this today that we move forward.
11:10:35 Thank you.
11:10:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
11:10:38 Let me say this before I go to Mr. Cohen and Mr. Suarez.
11:10:43 This is just my opinion.
11:10:44 I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a judge.
11:10:49 I heard maybe a thousand appeals in my other job.
11:10:56 There was two instances provided by council members that
11:10:59 said that they really wanted to look at this one more time
11:11:03 for whatever reason.
11:11:07 Although once that was put on the record, I feel there is no
11:11:13 other way of doing this other than continue so that this
11:11:18 record is presented, and we are not a party to it, is not
11:11:24 partisan as possible on either side.
11:11:27 That's just my opinion.
11:11:30 But I feel strongly that if I don't appeal that the record
11:11:39 is not clear and whoever is hearing this in a court of law
11:11:42 they are going to say, why did he go forward with this?
11:11:44 When some member said they wanted more time to be digest the
11:11:48 information.
11:11:48 That's just my feeling.
11:11:49 I go to Mr. Cohen and then Mr. Suarez.
11:11:51 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
11:11:55 Let me just say I sympathize with Councilman Reddick.
11:11:58 I have been very sick all week and I laid in bed with these
11:12:01 books the entire time so that I could read the record over
11:12:04 and over and over again and get prepared for today.
11:12:08 With that said, I just do not think we can go forward
11:12:10 without everybody being ready to.
11:12:12 I think that at the end of the day, the question was asked
11:12:18 at the beginning for a reason, and the answer has to be yes
11:12:24 from everyone, in my opinion.
11:12:26 Otherwise, I think we are setting ourselves up for more
11:12:31 complication in the record rather than less.
11:12:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
11:12:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
11:12:36 I just wanted to ask a couple questions concerning process.
11:12:43 About what happens in a hypothetical case in terms of, A,
11:12:47 let's say we do a continuance.
11:12:49 We are still under the same burden as we were before.
11:12:51 And I don't think you need to answer this question.
11:12:53 I think I'm right on that.
11:12:55 We are still under the same burden as before which is we
11:12:57 have the record, the dead record, here in front of us, not a
11:13:01 live record, and then we get a determination to allow oral
11:13:04 argument, or we say, we agree with the hearing officer, and
11:13:08 then that goes back to whatever the next legal process is.
11:13:12 And my question is, what would be the next legal process for
11:13:17 someone in this particular case to either -- because I think
11:13:21 we know if it comes to oral argument and we both again are
11:13:24 probably going to go to go to a court, would be my guess, if
11:13:30 we remand back to the hearing officer, he will then go back
11:13:33 and look at the record based on what our recommendations are
11:13:37 in terms of what was missing in the record or what some of
11:13:40 the questions we had as part of the record, and then that
11:13:44 process would then right out.
11:13:47 What I want oh to know, if we remand, does it come back to
11:13:51 us then or does that go directly to a court of law?
11:13:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It comes back to you.
11:13:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Then if it comes back to us a second time
11:14:00 then we would still have the same burden that we have now,
11:14:03 which is to read according to the record and what we have
11:14:08 built from any argument or oral argument, whatever may be
11:14:12 the case, to move forward, and we either agree again with
11:14:16 the hearing, agree with the hearing officer, or again
11:14:19 remand.
11:14:20 There is a point, if I am not mistaken, that that then,
11:14:24 there's nothing more that will happen other than going to a
11:14:27 court of law and then coming back to us to say you have to,
11:14:31 because you did not follow something in the zoning rules or
11:14:36 chapter of code of conduct here.
11:14:38 So if you follow what I am saying.
11:14:41 Because we had this happen previously where we had a court
11:14:43 of law tell us that we needed to agree with the decision by
11:14:47 the court, and we were stuck in a situation where we had to
11:14:52 agree to that or else we would open ourselves up not only as
11:14:56 a city to liability but us individually, for any of the
11:15:04 things that are done here today.
11:15:06 I mean, not now but at some point it could happen that way.
11:15:09 And I just want to make sure that everyone understands that
11:15:11 process.
11:15:12 Regardless of what we do now, when it comes back, we can't
11:15:18 punt.
11:15:18 No punting a loud here.
11:15:19 We are going to have to figure this out and whether or not
11:15:21 Mr. Grandoff is allowed to have oral argument, eventually
11:15:24 this is -- and I think the nonbetting person here said it
11:15:29 probably will be in a court of law at some point.
11:15:31 That would be my guess also.
11:15:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me share this.
11:15:34 May I?
11:15:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes, absolutely.
11:15:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Within your code it says under final
11:15:38 decision, lower case Roman numeral 4 of the final order by
11:15:43 City Council shall be deemed final and may be appealed to a
11:15:45 court of competent jurisdiction in a manner set forth by
11:15:48 applicable law.
11:15:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Right.
11:15:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that --
11:15:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And that was my point, Mr. Shelby.
11:15:56 I wanted to make sure that we understood the process because
11:16:00 this is going to be a long process regardless of what
11:16:02 happens.
11:16:03 Now that's just a guess.
11:16:04 That is not based on any fact other than what I know in the
11:16:07 real world.
11:16:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me correct you on that.
11:16:11 With all due respect.
11:16:12 I say this respectfully.
11:16:14 How long this is going to take, and who is going to do, and
11:16:18 what the ultimate outcome is, is not relevant.
11:16:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me restate it.
11:16:26 The point I was trying to make is our decision now or
11:16:30 January 8th is going to -- it affects us individually in
11:16:36 terms of what the next steps are going to be, whatever they
11:16:38 might be.
11:16:39 We are going to have to either read this cold record and
11:16:42 figure it out, go from there, open it up, not open it up,
11:16:45 but that decision is still going to be coming back to us one
11:16:48 way or the other.
11:16:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not necessarily.
11:16:52 The goal, council, whatever decision you make, the goal of
11:16:58 conducting this hearing properly is so it doesn't come back
11:17:00 to you, so that whatever decision you do make is affirmed.
11:17:04 That is the reason why I have wax dollars so loquaciously.
11:17:10 That's not my intention but you mention the word punt.
11:17:13 And sometimes -- and I am not saying for this -- but let me
11:17:17 just tell you that what some board may do when faced with
11:17:20 something like this is just say, well, I am going to punt
11:17:23 and let the circuit court decide, and come back.
11:17:28 Well, that in that case is not following the essential
11:17:30 requirements of law.
11:17:31 Even when this comes back to you on the 8th, you cannot
11:17:35 punt.
11:17:36 This code requires specific findings that you must make in
11:17:40 the form of a motion and get a second and then get four
11:17:43 votes on it.
11:17:44 So this is something -- and the reason this burden is the
11:17:48 way it is, is because the people who wanted the de novo
11:17:53 hearing, with witnesses and opportunity to be heard, had the
11:17:57 hearing, and chosen to be done in front of a hearing
11:18:00 officer.
11:18:00 The due process was afforded.
11:18:02 You now are sitting as a review body.
11:18:07 Your obligation -- and I use that word strongly -- your
11:18:10 obligation is set forth in this code, and it is your
11:18:13 obligation to follow it.
11:18:14 So when it comes back on the 8th, in order to protect
11:18:18 the record, I will not be able to be in a position of
11:18:20 allowing you to punt this to circuit court.
11:18:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Right.
11:18:25 What is done is done.
11:18:26 But thank you.
11:18:29 Mr. Shelby, you emphasized my point.
11:18:31 Thank you.
11:18:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only thing I have in front of me is a
11:18:34 question for --
11:18:36 >>MARY MULHERN: You have two council members waiting to
11:18:38 speak.
11:18:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to speak before I give the
11:18:40 floor to you.
11:18:41 Is that all right with you?
11:18:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Sure.
11:18:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only thing I have before me that
11:18:45 would take a vote on is on the continuation to January the
11:18:49 8th of the year 2015, and it will be set at 10:00 in the
11:18:53 morning.
11:18:54 Now, before I go to the other council members, so I don't
11:18:57 continue this rhetoric about moving or stay still, or
11:19:02 walking and not moving.
11:19:04 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:19:06 I have a second by Mrs. Capin.
11:19:09 Mrs. Hull Mulhern, that's what you want?
11:19:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:19:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what you want, Mrs. Capin?
11:19:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:19:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I yield to Mrs. Mulhern and then Mrs.
11:19:19 Capin.
11:19:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:19:21 I just feel like I have to answer -- and, you know, this is
11:19:25 our job, and we get paid for it.
11:19:28 But I spent the last two days reading all of this, and I
11:19:35 don't know.
11:19:35 I mean, we can remember when we are in school, and I'm sure
11:19:41 all the lawyers hear know, and most people know that you
11:19:44 don't just read something once and remember everything you
11:19:48 read and know when you are being asked to make an important
11:19:55 decision.
11:19:56 So that's why I asked for a continuance.
11:19:59 I came in here not sure if I was ready.
11:20:01 And after I heard from council, and our discussion, I
11:20:07 decided I wasn't.
11:20:09 But I spent more than a few hours.
11:20:11 I spent two days wading through this and I still need more
11:20:16 time.
11:20:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No problem.
11:20:18 Anyone else?
11:20:19 Mrs. Capin?
11:20:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I do hold to the second and I will tell you,
11:20:23 since everybody else talked about their big books and they
11:20:28 read them, I did also.
11:20:30 It has nothing to do with my preparation.
11:20:32 It has to do with what I stated before, which was -- and I
11:20:37 think Councilman Cohen reiterated it, which is, if I feel
11:20:44 that anyone on this council feels they are not prepared, it
11:20:48 is -- it would be the fairest thing to do to all parties to
11:20:53 be -- to make sure everyone is ready.
11:20:57 And that is why I seconded it.
11:21:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
11:21:00 And please, if we are going to talk just to the
11:21:02 continuation, if somebody wants to go somewhere, I'll stay
11:21:05 here till midnight on this one issue because I can tell you
11:21:08 that even the attorneys that are here can't even tell you
11:21:12 where the page number is at.
11:21:15 The odds are to the right and the evens to the top.
11:21:19 I memorized most of that stuff.
11:21:20 Even the people who want to interrupt and one side says what
11:21:24 side is that on?
11:21:25 I can tell you the page number and where everything is at.
11:21:27 And it didn't tap me two days to read it either.
11:21:30 But I'm not going to expound on me.
11:21:34 It's about us.
11:21:35 About you folks having a fair hearing before this board.
11:21:38 That's what this is all about.
11:21:40 You will never see me say the word "I."
11:21:44 It's "we."
11:21:45 Mrs. Montelione.
11:21:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:21:51 I agree with Mr. Reddick.
11:21:53 I'm not prepared to vote for a continuance.
11:22:00 If everyone has read all the documents, which at the
11:22:04 beginning of this, it wasn't clear at least to me that
11:22:09 everyone had read the documents.
11:22:14 Even though we said on the record that we all did, but then
11:22:16 there was a question of whether we did or not, and when we
11:22:20 got them, I believe the clerk uploaded the agenda on Friday.
11:22:28 Is that correct?
11:22:31 Okay.
11:22:31 So she's indicating that the agenda was uploaded on Friday,
11:22:35 which included all of the documents.
11:22:38 I get a phone call from my aide saying there's 200 pages
11:22:42 here, do you want me to print all 200 pages?
11:22:46 So -- or 200 plus pages.
11:22:51 So these documents have been available for quite some time.
11:22:54 Mr. Cohen said he read them over the weekend when he was
11:22:57 sick.
11:23:01 I'm sorry, yesterday and the day before when you were sick.
11:23:04 I'm sorry, Mr. Cohen.
11:23:06 I think you got that from me.
11:23:10 I apologize.
11:23:13 But my fear is just what the chairman said, about having a
11:23:16 fair hearing.
11:23:20 And if we continue this to January 8th, know one here
11:23:23 can tell me that they are not going to open a newspaper and
11:23:25 see a headline.
11:23:27 No one here can tell me with certainty that someone is not
11:23:30 going to come up to them and say, how did that Harbor Island
11:23:33 thing go?
11:23:34 There's in a assurance that this record is not going to be
11:23:38 tainted between now and February -- I mean January 8th.
11:23:42 The only way it's not going to be tainted is if we hold this
11:23:46 hearing today.
11:23:47 So and I see Mrs. Mandell scurrying.
11:23:53 I'm not sure if she's going to want to make a statement.
11:23:55 But, you know, I really advocate for going forward with
11:24:00 this.
11:24:00 If everyone has read the documents and everyone has seen the
11:24:03 testimony, we can take time to, you know, go back and review
11:24:08 sections.
11:24:10 If it's tabs, like I have a tab and Mrs. Capin has a tab, we
11:24:14 can take a look at those tabs and re-read sections that we
11:24:19 feel is necessary during this discussion, if there is going
11:24:22 to be discussion.
11:24:25 But I'm with Mr. Reddick.
11:24:26 I want to go forward with this now.
11:24:28 I don't want this record to even have the outside chance of
11:24:32 maybe possibly trying to sort of being tainted between now
11:24:36 and January 8th.
11:24:39 The only way we are going to have a fair hearing is if we do
11:24:41 it now and avoid that potential tainting of the record.
11:24:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:24:46 Before I take a vote on this continuance, I am going to ask
11:24:50 the two parties, Mr. Allen, Mr. Grandoff, to make a comment
11:24:55 only on the continuance portion that we discussed.
11:24:58 That's it before I take the vote.
11:25:06 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: I would further suggest that many of my
11:25:09 clients are here this morning.
11:25:10 We suggest an evening hearing.
11:25:13 And I will also warn council to sternly tell anyone in this
11:25:21 room or hearing this matter not to contact the City Council
11:25:26 members under any means of communication at all.
11:25:32 You are not helping the process.
11:25:33 In fact you are endangering the process.
11:25:35 And I will tell you that in the most straightforward terms.
11:25:38 Please respect these seven folks' right to deliberate this
11:25:44 matter independently.
11:25:46 We suggest an evening hearing if the matter is continued.
11:25:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Allen.
11:25:51 >> Ray Allen.
11:25:52 I represent the relighted group in this matter.
11:25:55 Given the circumstances of what's been said on the record
11:25:57 today, we certainly don't think we can go forward with a
11:26:00 hearing today.
11:26:01 I think it's very unfortunate.
11:26:03 I think it costs a lot of money to a lot of people.
11:26:06 And I believe that sincerely everybody has spent the time to
11:26:10 do what they should be doing.
11:26:11 But, unfortunately, we now have a record that is going to be
11:26:15 of no help to either party going forward.
11:26:17 And that's not what we want to do.
11:26:20 My suggestion is -- and I will agree with Mrs. Grandoff and
11:26:25 strenuously say that nobody in this audience including the
11:26:28 attorneys should be contacting any members of staff, any
11:26:32 members of this board going forward.
11:26:36 I understand and I have represented government before and
11:26:39 the concerns you have, but very simply when something pops
11:26:42 up, you just need to ignore it, and hopefully the people in
11:26:46 this audience will understand that they are not to
11:26:48 communicate with you, and that includes the lawyers in this
11:26:51 matter also.
11:26:52 I appreciate your time.
11:26:54 I understand we are running very far behind for a simple
11:26:57 continuance.
11:26:57 But we will agree, and we don't have any problem with doing
11:27:02 that moving forward.
11:27:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:27:04 I have a motion on the floor.
11:27:08 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:27:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted change that to the evening
11:27:12 meeting of January 15th, if we to don't it.
11:27:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to vote against the motion to
11:27:19 continue to the evening.
11:27:20 I don't know about the rest of the council members.
11:27:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:27:25 Well, still with the first motion.
11:27:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The first motion contains an hour and a
11:27:30 date so just change the motion without the hour and the
11:27:33 date.
11:27:33 And then you will have to have a second motion setting the
11:27:35 hearing for that hour and that date.
11:27:37 That's the only way I can get around that.
11:27:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Move for a continuance.
11:27:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern for
11:27:45 continuance of item -- what number?
11:27:49 66.
11:27:54 (Laughter)
11:27:54 I didn't take a vote on it because the maker of the
11:27:59 motion -- look, I am getting to the point now where this
11:28:02 record is so messed up that God can't fix it.
11:28:06 So motion on the floor to the maker, 50s oops the maker
11:28:10 now said she didn't want that motion, she wants to change it
11:28:13 without a time because then I'm trapped.
11:28:16 If I take the motion that was originally on the floor on the
11:28:19 8th of January the year 2015 at 10:00 in the morning,
11:28:22 guess what happens to me.
11:28:24 I have to take a substitute motion then to defeat that
11:28:27 motion because there's another motion by the original maker.
11:28:30 No, this is like the gong show.
11:28:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can.
11:28:34 Let me simplify this.
11:28:35 There was a motion on the floor for a specific date and
11:28:37 time.
11:28:38 If she wishes to amend that motion, then if it's by
11:28:42 unanimous consent the motion can be amended but other than
11:28:44 that there is a motion and second on the floor.
11:28:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You want to amend the motion on the
11:28:48 floor?
11:28:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I'll amend it to -- I don't know what
11:29:01 year -- I'm amending it to the 15th, January 15th.
11:29:09 No?
11:29:10 Let's vote on the 8th
11:29:15 Which was the original motion.
11:29:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to take it.
11:29:18 If it fails, fails.
11:29:20 If not we get another motion.
11:29:21 >>MARY MULHERN: At 10 a.m.
11:29:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: She has a motion on the floor for January
11:29:24 8th at 10 a.m., the year 2015.
11:29:27 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:29:28 Do I have a second by Mrs. Capin?
11:29:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:29:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Capin.
11:29:33 Further discussion by council members?
11:29:34 All in favor for the that hour, that date, that time,
11:29:37 January 8th, 20125 at 10:00 in the morning, please
11:29:40 signify by saying aye.
11:29:42 Opposed nay.
11:29:44 Roll call vote.
11:30:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes.
11:30:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:30:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
11:30:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:30:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
11:30:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
11:30:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:30:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried 5 to 2.
11:30:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And that motion that passed 5-2 is for
11:30:33 January 8, 2015 at 10:00 in the morning.
11:30:37 That's where we stand.
11:30:38 Thank you.
11:30:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to make a statement for the record
11:30:41 before we leave this for today and leave it as a continued
11:30:46 public hearing.
11:30:47 Just so the record is clear, I just want it to be known that
11:30:54 as with regard to my recommendation, I was required to
11:30:59 present my recommendation per the code.
11:31:01 I will also point out that I do not work for the legal
11:31:04 department.
11:31:05 I am an employee of the City Council.
11:31:07 I'm City Council's attorney.
11:31:09 And I just want to share with you for the record that I did
11:31:11 not share with City Council members what my recommendation
11:31:13 would be prior to today's meeting.
11:31:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We understand that.
11:31:18 Thank you all very much for appearing this morning.
11:31:20 We really appreciate it and our apologies for the time you
11:31:22 had to spend here.
11:31:24 Thank you very much.
11:31:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are going to go now to item number 7.
11:31:59 And as soon as we finish 7 we'll take a lunch break.
11:32:02 Item number 7 is the item for code enforcement Tampa Police
11:32:08 Department, construction services, required to appear and
11:32:13 present a report on Hogan --
11:32:18 [Sounding gavel]
11:32:20 Continue.
11:32:22 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
11:32:22 I'm here on item 7 concerning Hogan's Beach.
11:32:27 The property I want to clarify is zoned planned development
11:32:31 district, rezoned to PD in 2007 under Z 07-24, and the use
11:32:38 of the property was hotel and residential development.
11:32:42 That site plan never was really developed.
11:32:45 The current use of the property has been hotel with
11:32:49 restaurant.
11:32:51 They currently hold a 4(COP) alcohol permit over the entire
11:32:57 area, uplands, which was a 1974 ordinance approving alcohol
11:33:05 sales area.
11:33:08 Reviewing the rezoning petition and the alcohol petition
11:33:13 that they have subsequently withdrawn came to our knowledge
11:33:15 that they were conducting and promoting concerts on the
11:33:19 property to the point where I feel that it is a place of
11:33:23 assembly.
11:33:24 That use is not a permitted use on the current PD site plan
11:33:28 and will require an amendment to their zoning if they want
11:33:32 to continue to utilize that use on the property.
11:33:37 It also will trigger the review for off-street parking.
11:33:43 At this point in time, they have not come to land
11:33:45 development to secure this type of use on the property, but
11:33:53 consider it a violation of the use of the zoning and here to
11:33:57 answer your questions.
11:33:58 I do want to tell council, though, that the code does make
11:34:01 provisions for temporary special events.
11:34:04 The code allows for four events, two weeks at a time, on any
11:34:10 property.
11:34:11 It does require that off-street parking be provided in
11:34:15 compliance with the traffic engineer for the city.
11:34:17 I think they would have a difficult time given the number of
11:34:21 attendees to these events.
11:34:24 But they do have the option to hold that in compliance with
11:34:29 code.
11:34:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Could you repeat, Mrs. Morada, what you said
11:34:33 in terms of the number of events per how many weeks?
11:34:37 >>GLORIA MOREDA: The total allows for temporary special
11:34:38 events four times a year, no longer than two weeks at a
11:34:42 time.
11:34:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I just want to make sure we got that clear
11:34:46 because sometimes my mind goes backwards so I want to make
11:34:49 sure that's what it was.
11:34:50 Thank you.
11:34:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have code enforcement.
11:34:53 Police department, are they here?
11:34:58 Yes, sir.
11:34:59 >> Tom Rogerio.
11:35:03 Representing code enforcement.
11:35:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Did you have any finding of fact on this
11:35:08 property, sir?
11:35:09 >> We have had two issues on the property that dealt with
11:35:14 the signs, 2013 that's come into compliance, and then
11:35:20 there's an issue that came to our attention yesterday with
11:35:23 the sign, and they are addressing that this morning.
11:35:26 That will be reviewed by Gloria's folks.
11:35:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members on that
11:35:33 statement by him?
11:35:38 Mr. Reddick?
11:35:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Could you tell us if this place has been
11:35:43 cited for any violations?
11:35:44 >> Not yet.
11:35:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: And Mrs. Moreda stated that it was in
11:35:51 violation.
11:35:51 I believe I heard her say -- did you state that you found
11:35:54 them to be in violation?
11:35:57 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
11:35:58 What I said was that given what the presentation this
11:36:02 morning, and the manner in which they are operating and
11:36:05 promoting the concerts on the property, I feel that it is a
11:36:08 violation of their current zoning of their property.
11:36:11 I will be working with code enforcement and working with the
11:36:14 police department really in the monitoring of the activities
11:36:18 going on on the property.
11:36:21 They have not at this point been crated for that specific
11:36:25 violation.
11:36:25 They will be, though.
11:36:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you this.
11:36:34 Now that we have seen all these concerts that have taken
11:36:36 place at this establishment, and I'm pretty sure some of
11:36:39 these people at Dana shore can tell us the next date that
11:36:43 they are going to have a concert out there. Could the city
11:36:47 be prepared, if they are in violation at that concert and
11:36:51 cite them?
11:36:57 >> Yes, sir, I'm in agreement with that.
11:37:01 We can work with be the police department and do something
11:37:04 at that location.
11:37:06 As far as what Gloria is talking about, we'll submit -- once
11:37:11 I talk to her, we'll submit a violation for review, and then
11:37:15 they come back and tell us if there's a violation, and then
11:37:19 we'll set it for hearing.
11:37:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Because they seem to have quite a few
11:37:24 concerts out there, and I'm pretty sure -- I think we saw
11:37:29 some advertisement, one coming New Year's Eve, I believe.
11:37:32 And if they have one scheduled for New Year's Eve now, I
11:37:35 hope you all will be in full force.
11:37:36 >> Yes, sir.
11:37:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
11:37:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione, and Mrs. Capin.
11:37:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:37:45 From the public comment this morning, many, if not all, of
11:37:49 the neighbors who had testified during that public hearing
11:37:53 said that they had contacted code enforcement, they had
11:37:56 contacted TPD, they had contacted Land Development
11:37:58 Coordination.
11:38:00 So I am maybe not clear as to why they were not able to hear
11:38:10 from any one of the three departments that they were in
11:38:16 violation previously.
11:38:18 And why has it taken all this time that they have been
11:38:24 suffering with this to find a violation?
11:38:29 And my second question is, since the advertisement for that
11:38:37 New Year's concert was available to us, given to us, how
11:38:44 concert venues work, because these concerts are booked many
11:38:49 months if not a year in advance with the acts that are going
11:38:53 to appear.
11:38:56 Would that not already be a violation that they could be
11:38:58 cited for?
11:38:59 Why do we have to wait until that concert happens on new
11:39:03 years eve to cite them?
11:39:06 Can't we -- there is enough testimony in the record, and
11:39:09 that's enough evidence in the record with EPC being called
11:39:13 out.
11:39:14 TPD I'm sure has a record with the number of times they have
11:39:16 been called.
11:39:18 Isn't there already a preponderance of evidence that they
11:39:22 are in violation and cite them now?
11:39:27 >> Like I previously stated, we have to commit a review of
11:39:33 zoning, and what's in that, and then they'll come back and
11:39:36 tell us what they are violating and set it for hearing.
11:39:39 That's the way that works.
11:39:42 Now, with the noise ordinance, we work with the police on
11:39:47 that.
11:39:48 Tampa police have measuring devices.
11:39:50 Code enforcement officers do not.
11:39:52 We don't normally --
11:39:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But from what I understand Mrs. Moreda
11:39:58 clearly, it's not -- not even the noise.
11:40:01 It's the matter that this has been deemed a place of
11:40:06 assembly.
11:40:08 So regardless of how loud or quiet they are, they are not
11:40:11 permitted to have -- they don't have a permit for public
11:40:17 assembly.
11:40:17 >> At the direction of what you are telling me today, we'll
11:40:22 go ahead and open a case.
11:40:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So you don't have to wait until
11:40:26 something else occurs?
11:40:28 You can open it right now.
11:40:29 You can open it today?
11:40:30 >> We'll do it.
11:40:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:40:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin and Mr. Suarez.
11:40:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We haven't heard from all the staff and I
11:40:41 would like to hear from the police department and then I
11:40:42 will be glad to make my questions.
11:40:46 >> Good morning.
11:40:51 Rocky Ratliffe with Tampa Police Department, a major in
11:40:55 district 1.
11:40:57 With reference to Hogan's Beach, we have met with Dana
11:41:03 Shores and Rocky Point and also with the EPC a few times on
11:41:11 this matter.
11:41:15 As relates to TPD, we haven't had a violation for the
11:41:21 ordinance.
11:41:22 What we look at, we go there, within 100 feet.
11:41:28 We don't do the decibel readings anymore.
11:41:30 That's basically for Ybor City and SoHo area.
11:41:35 We also have officers especially on the weekend, most of the
11:41:41 events, they happen on Saturday and Sunday.
11:41:43 So we have officers out there, because we want to prevent
11:41:48 crime and make sure the community is safe.
11:41:51 So we met with the EPC and the Dana Shores, and since
11:42:02 August, I haven't had -- no one called me.
11:42:06 I haven't had too many complaints.
11:42:08 Now, we have had 12 since July 6th of 2014, we have had
11:42:15 12 loud music complaints.
11:42:18 Out of those 12, no citations were issued or anything like
11:42:23 that.
11:42:23 So as I said, if someone calls we are going to respond, and
11:42:27 we'll evaluate what we have.
11:42:29 If we found in a violation we won't write about it.
11:42:32 But I know they have been in cooperation with each other,
11:42:36 Hogan's Beach, with the community, trying to solve different
11:42:38 issues.
11:42:41 So other than that, we haven't had too many problems.
11:42:46 Now, as the community stated before, they had property
11:42:49 issues, different things like that.
11:42:57 We have property issues but for noise itself we haven't.
11:43:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And that's exactly what I wanted to hear
11:43:03 about was the noise level.
11:43:04 And I know that we apply this uniformly except in the area
11:43:10 that you mention.
11:43:11 And here is the issue that we may want to look at, is that
11:43:15 noise level travel differently over different surfaces?
11:43:20 And over water it travels a very long distance.
11:43:23 And the reason I know this is because I lived on the
11:43:26 Hillsborough River, and I could hear a half a mile away
11:43:33 things that were happening.
11:43:35 A gun being shot.
11:43:36 Music.
11:43:40 Very loud cars, motorcycles, and you knew it was coming.
11:43:45 So maybe we also need to look at our noise ordinance and
11:43:53 maybe need a study of how it travels on different surfaces,
11:43:57 because it does travel differently on water and it travels
11:44:00 further.
11:44:02 So that being said -- and this is totally surrounded by
11:44:06 water.
11:44:06 And I don't have any scientific evidence top that, but I
11:44:11 think we can look at it.
11:44:14 Unless Mrs. Kert may have some scientific evidence to that.
11:44:18 >>REBECCA KERT: I am not here to talk about the scientific
11:44:21 noise but I did want to remind you that we did, around a
11:44:25 year, well over a year ago, provide for noise regulations
11:44:28 and how they play out at the same time that we are, you
11:44:31 know, setting how they are working.
11:44:34 We are also in litigation on our noise regulations.
11:44:38 We have been sued and are in court so at this point we are
11:44:40 not recommending bringing forth any changes or studies at
11:44:44 this point but we are constantly reviewing our noise
11:44:47 regulations.
11:44:48 We heard what you said and we'll take that into
11:44:50 consideration.
11:44:50 But we are at a point where we are able to bring something
11:44:52 back to you.
11:44:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I appreciate it and I appreciate you
11:44:55 reminding me of our litigation.
11:44:57 Thank you so much. That ends my questions.
11:44:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mrs. Kert, you always sit down because you
11:45:04 don't think I am going to ask you a question.
11:45:06 I'm not sure why that is.
11:45:07 But let's get back to I understand about the noise issue.
11:45:14 What's our coordination between EPC and their measurement
11:45:17 for noise and our own mention units in terms of what we do
11:45:21 in order to measure for noise?
11:45:22 >>REBECCA KERT: That is actually part of the subject of the
11:45:26 litigation.
11:45:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Then I won't belabor that point.
11:45:30 That's what I wanted to ask because there is a connection
11:45:32 between the two, but I didn't want to belabor it.
11:45:35 Now, in terms of what Mrs. Moreda has told us today about
11:45:41 someone that is not add hearing to what their site plan
11:45:45 says, in terms of what they are supposed to be able to
11:45:47 provide and other things, what is our recourse for those
11:45:51 people who are not following their own site plan in terms of
11:45:56 what they can and can't do at their location?
11:46:00 >>REBECCA KERT: We have all the different options that are
11:46:04 always before you with code enforcement but typically what
11:46:07 you would do in a situation is you would issue them a
11:46:11 citation and notice and bring them before a Code Enforcement
11:46:14 Board or we have hearing officers for zoning violations, and
11:46:20 that's typically what we do, and we are typically going to
11:46:22 follow what our typical process is.
11:46:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Is there any process for emergency orders
11:46:28 specifically for the case concerning the end of the month
11:46:31 and Hogan's Beach?
11:46:32 Is there any process or procedure that we can follow in
11:46:35 order to get an emergency hearing on this particular issue?
11:46:42 >> I am going to allow code enforcement to speak to that
11:46:45 since I am not familiar with their processes.
11:46:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
11:46:49 >> In reference to that question, I would have to speak with
11:46:53 my legal adviser.
11:46:54 >> You many the one that's sitting outside right now?
11:46:57 >> Yes.
11:46:57 >> The one that is looking at the screen and not coming in
11:47:00 here as we are talking?
11:47:03 Mueller?
11:47:04 >> Yes, that guy.
11:47:05 But I'll tell you this.
11:47:08 That's something we'll look into.
11:47:10 I'm looking to helping these folks out and doing what we can
11:47:15 do.
11:47:16 >> Why don't we get the answer as he walks in?
11:47:18 Mr. Mueller, I think you heard the question.
11:47:21 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I read the question.
11:47:24 Right now, under the orders that code enforcement, issued, I
11:47:33 do not believe there is one to address this issue.
11:47:37 >> So there's in a process for emergency order in order
11:47:39 to -- after we have gotten a finding of fact from our
11:47:44 administrator saying, yeah, I believe that they are not
11:47:46 following what their site plan is and we can't take it that
11:47:52 quickly into be a hearing process in order for them to
11:47:55 continue to do the things they are currently doing?
11:47:58 >> I would need to go back and review the code but in the
11:48:01 time coming in here I couldn't think of one that addressed
11:48:03 the issue but I am more than willing to take a look at it.
11:48:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I don't wants to have AP staff report or
11:48:09 anything, that is their last meeting.
11:48:13 I would like to get a motion to direct them to do that for
11:48:16 any kind of emergency order or hearing so that we can try to
11:48:20 resolve the issue as complete as possible.
11:48:22 >> I'll second it.
11:48:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (off microphone) motion by Mr. Suarez.
11:48:31 All in favor of discussion?
11:48:35 Mrs. Montelione?
11:48:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Because this is our last meeting, were
11:48:38 you intending for Mr. Mueller to tap a look during the day
11:48:44 today and come back to us later in our meeting to let us
11:48:47 know whether or not that emergency --
11:48:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I could, Mrs. Montelione, the important
11:48:55 part to me is the enforcement part which we don't have a
11:48:57 role in.
11:48:58 I just want him to go ahead and find if there is anything to
11:49:03 do an enforcement aspect of this particular zoning law.
11:49:08 Mr. Mueller is more than welcome to come back later today.
11:49:12 I don't think that's a requirement.
11:49:13 I would rather him serve the process in terms of an
11:49:16 emergency order that might be there.
11:49:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I guess I'm asking for the edification
11:49:21 and to share it with the folks who are here today.
11:49:23 So I know you weren't asking for a staff report but it would
11:49:27 be nice if they were to be able to please, you know --
11:49:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And once we clear this motion I'll make a
11:49:39 second motion that if he's already goat the answer to come
11:49:42 back to us later today.
11:49:43 That will be fine.
11:49:45 Chair.
11:49:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
11:49:48 From the evidence that we all saw, the preponderance of
11:49:52 people, that there is an assembly that's not supposed to be,
11:49:55 that's what was put on the record, it is a violation, an
11:49:59 alleged violation, as you say, traffic parking everywhere on
11:50:02 everyone's lots all the way up to the expressway, violations
11:50:06 everywhere, why don't we ask them -- we can ask, we can't
11:50:11 tell them -- to go on the next one that we saw, and for them
11:50:15 to jointly inspect the grounds and the concert is being
11:50:20 played out to see what we have and what we don't have.
11:50:23 >> That would be New Year's Eve.
11:50:25 >> I mean, I'll take your motion and vote on it but not
11:50:29 going to make a motion.
11:50:30 I am just asking as a suggestion.
11:50:32 We have the evidence.
11:50:33 The neighborhood has the evidence.
11:50:35 And we go from there.
11:50:36 We either have it or we don't have it.
11:50:39 But at least it will be codified on the record as to what we
11:50:43 are doing.
11:50:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: (off microphone).
11:50:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
11:50:56 Are they doing that?
11:50:59 Just a second.
11:50:59 Are you guys doing that?
11:51:04 >> For New Year's Eve I'll get with the division commander
11:51:08 of district 1 and put something together.
11:51:10 We'll be out there.
11:51:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Chair, the point was not whether they were
11:51:16 going to do it on December 31st.
11:51:19 The point is any emergency way of going to a hearing.
11:51:22 If the answer is no, then we are going to have the same
11:51:24 problems that we had before, so my point is that I would
11:51:28 like them to look to see if there is an emergency procedure
11:51:30 to go forward to stop someone who according to our own
11:51:35 administrator has said is already not following their own
11:51:41 guidelines.
11:51:42 That's the only question.
11:51:43 Any other motions or any other issues, we can clear that up
11:51:45 with another motion.
11:51:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr.
11:51:49 Reddick.
11:51:49 Further discussion?
11:51:51 Mrs. Montelione?
11:51:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was going to say the point I made by
11:51:54 asking the case to be opened today, and I think what Mr.
11:51:58 Suarez is asking that we are not going to wait until
11:52:01 something else happens on the 31st.
11:52:03 We want to take care of this and address the issue before
11:52:07 the 31st, before the next incident happens.
11:52:12 So that's the whole point.
11:52:14 We don't want to wait until the 31st.
11:52:17 That's something else happens, and then go in.
11:52:20 We already have a preponderance of evidence to open the case
11:52:24 and maybe get it addressed before the 31st.
11:52:30 Right, Mr. Suarez?
11:52:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you for reiterating it.
11:52:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of the motion signify by
11:52:38 saying aye.
11:52:38 Opposed nay.
11:52:39 Now tell me, when are we going to get that report?
11:52:44 I know they are going to do something with it.
11:52:46 Mr. Suarez.
11:52:47 But I have to make sure that between now and the 8th if
11:52:52 something is in violation, we are not here.
11:52:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I would request, a motion to request the
11:52:58 legal department to come back before the end of our meeting
11:53:00 today with an answer as to whether or not there's an
11:53:03 emergency procedure.
11:53:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
11:53:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So we can understand --
11:53:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:53:10 I have a motion by Mr. Suarez on that part for
11:53:13 clarification.
11:53:14 I have a second by Mrs. Montelione.
11:53:16 Further discussion by council members?
11:53:17 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
11:53:20 Opposed nay.
11:53:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:53:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have one more question.
11:53:25 Mrs. Moreda or maybe major Ratliffe.
11:53:33 I think Mrs. Moreda, sir.
11:53:41 Is it part of the zoning now that they are to have -- and
11:53:48 maybe there's a special use permit -- that they are to have
11:53:51 off-duty officers on-site during an event?
11:53:57 >>GLORIA MOREDA: You are talking about the alcohol?
11:53:58 >> Yes, ma'am.
11:54:00 >>GLORIA MOREDA: That was a very old 1974 alcohol permit.
11:54:03 I doubt that they are required to have any.
11:54:06 I don't know if there's any other reason.
11:54:09 My understanding, though, they do have off-duty officers
11:54:12 there.
11:54:15 I did want to make one other comment related to the
11:54:19 information that I saw here today.
11:54:22 The parking, the valet parking that they have at the
11:54:25 Waterford, I have to pull their site plan because they are
11:54:29 also zoned PD.
11:54:31 And I don't believe that they are approved for off-street
11:54:34 parking as a principle use so that might also be a citation
11:54:40 that will be issued.
11:54:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:54:44 And major Ratliff, what I was going to ask is if it was a
11:54:48 requirement for there to be off-duty officers present and
11:54:52 what was asserted by some of the testimony we had during
11:54:55 public comment was that there were no officers present.
11:54:59 But it seems that Mrs. Moreda has stated that -- first we
11:55:04 have to clear up whether they are required to have officers
11:55:06 present.
11:55:06 If she determines that there is a requirement for officers
11:55:09 present, then I would request that TPD look at your off-duty
11:55:14 records to see if officers have been serving off-duty hours
11:55:18 at location.
11:55:19 >> And I know for a fact they have been serving off-duty
11:55:21 hours there.
11:55:23 What we try to do is we want to quail things.
11:55:25 We don't want things to get out of hand.
11:55:28 So we meet with the managers of Hogue beach and make sure
11:55:33 that they have off-duty officers for these types of events.
11:55:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:55:40 And officers when they may not even be required to.
11:55:43 >> Right.
11:55:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:55:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any others?
11:55:48 The motion was voted on?
11:55:51 >>THE CLERK: Yes, sir, both of them were.
11:55:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else on Hogan's Beach from
11:55:56 council members?
11:55:58 All right.
11:55:58 We are going to stand in recess till 1:30.
11:56:04 >> (City Council meeting in recess.)
11:56:06 >> (City Council meeting reconvened.)
13:42:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called back in session.
13:42:17 Roll call.
13:42:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
13:42:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
13:42:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
13:42:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here. Let me just say that item number 8
13:42:32 is where we left off and I believe Mrs. Mandell asked for a
13:42:35 continuance to February 5th of the year 2015 at staff
13:42:39 report time, 9:00 on item number 8.
13:42:44 Motion by Mr. Cohen.
13:42:47 February 15th -- excuse me, February 5th, 2015, at
13:42:51 staff time at 9:00.
13:42:53 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
13:42:54 Seconded by council member.
13:42:57 All in favor?
13:42:58 Opposed?
13:42:59 the ayes have it unanimously.
13:43:00 We go to item number 9.
13:43:02 >> Greg Spearman, director of purchasing.
13:43:16 Item number 9 is a request for City Council to approve a
13:43:19 contract for the City of Tampa maintenance department and I
13:43:28 do have a brief Power Point presentation I would like to
13:43:31 share with you that really talks about what this particular
13:43:35 project is all about, and also with me today is Tim, the
13:43:41 fleet manager, and representative from MANCON for any
13:43:47 questions you might have after the presentation.
13:43:49 Let's talk about -- this is basically the strategy for
13:43:56 internal management, and delivered from the vendor,
13:44:03 immediately before they are needed, at the time they are
13:44:06 needed and the day-to-day operations of city government.
13:44:09 And one of the most popular examples of what a just in time
13:44:15 management system,.
13:44:20 At one time they were stocked in our warehouses but because
13:44:22 of modern distribution systems, we can now get our supplies
13:44:27 directly from Office Depot, and they can ship them directly
13:44:30 to a city department.
13:44:31 So here is how a just in time inventory system works.
13:44:36 Just in time inventory system will change the current method
13:44:39 of acquiring items, just in time supplies, and stocks.
13:44:45 The stocks, for the contract price the city uses, and just
13:44:54 in time supplies deliver items top predetermined
13:45:04 For a just in time contract.
13:45:06 Now one example is a contract that operates a contract
13:45:09 operated parts store
13:45:14 Operated on-site maintenance parts inventory, and
13:45:17 distribution system designed to replace in-house operation
13:45:23 that is currently being used.
13:45:26 Let's talk about some of the benefits of having a contract
13:45:29 operated parts store.
13:45:31 It basically results in the reduction in the number of bids,
13:45:35 purchase orders, and checks to be processed by the city, and
13:45:41 an increase in on-hand inventory items available, no cost to
13:45:46 the city, until these parts are actually placed on a work
13:45:49 order or to repair a vehicle.
13:45:53 That will be fewer city dollars tied up in inventory items
13:45:56 on the shelf.
13:45:58 There will be the elimination of problems associated with
13:46:01 over or understocking, inventory items, the elimination of
13:46:06 obsolescence of inventory items.
13:46:10 We will also have a contracting on demand rates with
13:46:16 availability of needed parts and timeliness in terms of
13:46:20 fleet repairs, and 11% savings on contract prices for fleet
13:46:25 maintenance part.
13:46:28 Now, under the proposed contract terms we have the following
13:46:32 terms.
13:46:35 The vendor MANCON would be required to purchase the
13:46:40 inventory stock so that would not long to the city anymore.
13:46:43 Again, that would be an 8% on demand guarantee of inventory
13:46:48 parts with defined delivery commitment.
13:46:54 For a period of five years.
13:46:55 Renewable by written mutual agreement for five additional
13:46:58 one-year periods.
13:47:03 Award termination would have a ten day written notice with
13:47:06 cause and a 30-day written notice without cause.
13:47:10 And this was not on your Power Point but the parts cost to
13:47:15 the city would be zero dollars in terms of mark-up.
13:47:21 Let's compare now the current process in terms of how we
13:47:26 handle inventory with the contract operated parts.
13:47:31 So this is a chart which is reflecting the fleet maintenance
13:47:34 inventory support.
13:47:36 There are two columns.
13:47:37 Current process and the contract operated.
13:47:41 When you look at the current process, available on demand
13:47:44 today is about 44%.
13:47:46 But with the contract operated parts the demand is 80%
13:47:53 because the city is not making that investment, the vendor
13:47:56 is making that investment, and there's in a cost to the
13:47:58 city, so they actually make a much bigger investment where
13:48:03 the city is not able to do that because of cost.
13:48:06 Because of -- in terms of staff salaries and benefit, we
13:48:10 have about 310,994 in terms of staff dollars to support the
13:48:16 current operation.
13:48:17 Under the contract operated parts store with the vendor
13:48:23 employees, that will drop down to $261,878.
13:48:28 In terms of administrative costs under the current process,
13:48:31 which includes the cost of purchase orders, invoices and
13:48:35 checks, processing those, about 98,000 annual by but under
13:48:41 Tampa contract parts store, contract will be about 1540.
13:48:46 There is no management fee in the current process.
13:48:51 But with the contract operated parts store to run this
13:48:53 facility it's about $360,631 annually.
13:48:57 In terms of the annual bids, about 37 so that includes
13:49:05 having to advertise the bids and going through a formal
13:49:08 process, having to go through the award process, and under
13:49:12 the contract operated we go from 37 to 1.
13:49:18 Now, when we look at the current staffing out of fleet in
13:49:21 inventory operations, that's our city employees, one lead
13:49:25 inventory specialist, one inventory specialist, and three
13:49:28 inventory tech 2s, again that's an annual pay level to
13:49:42 support those employees.
13:49:46 We have inventory systems.
13:49:48 In fact our inventory levels are down in terms of the
13:49:53 employees to support all of our warehouse locations.
13:49:55 So we would be able to take the current employees and move
13:50:02 them so no one loses their jobs.
13:50:04 In terms of the contract operated parts store staffing
13:50:07 on-site, they would have one site manager, three customer
13:50:13 service, one general clerk, one delivery driver, and again
13:50:18 their annual payroll would be $261,878 for their population.
13:50:29 Now let's look at the next slide which talks about the cost
13:50:31 contract savings.
13:50:34 The projected annual savings is about 244,847 annually.
13:50:42 There's also the one time annual buyout of the city's
13:50:46 existing inventory, $253,000.
13:50:48 So the total first year savings FY 15 would be a little over
13:50:53 $580,000 for the city and annual reoccurrence savings would
13:50:59 be 329,308.
13:51:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Excuse me, Mr. Spearman, if I could ask you
13:51:09 a quick question.
13:51:10 Go back to that previous screen the one time inventory
13:51:15 buyout means that our contractor is going to buy that
13:51:17 inventory from us?
13:51:19 >> That is correct.
13:51:19 >> So now are we going to have touch rebuy that from them
13:51:23 whenever we order it?
13:51:24 >> Some of those things may be sold back to the city and
13:51:27 some of those things maybe will be other items.
13:51:32 >> My question I have, if that's the case, are we going to
13:51:35 get a markup on that or get it for the same price that we
13:51:38 sold it to?
13:51:39 >> We will not have a markup on those items.
13:51:41 >> Is that part of the contract?
13:51:43 >> Yes.
13:51:43 >> Because I wanted to make sure that that specific thing is
13:51:47 not something that's unusual and they say, well, we are
13:51:50 going to mark it up 25% even though we just bought it from
13:51:53 you.
13:51:53 >> Correct.
13:51:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
13:51:55 >> Greg Spearman: The next slide, I would like to point out
13:52:01 to you that there has been a number of agencies
13:52:05 Throughout the state and throughout Florida in particular
13:52:07 who have implemented successful contract operated parts
13:52:10 store operations in Hillsborough County, a quote from Tampa
13:52:16 fleet manager, and they have had this operation in place
13:52:18 over ten years, and basically he states the contract
13:52:23 operated parts model has been very successful for us, and we
13:52:26 have gone to a similar contract of single monthly invoice
13:52:35 that gives us 100% invoice accuracy, we also have a
13:52:41 verifiable 85% on demand rate that we track again with
13:52:45 integration of the vendor, data with our fleet management
13:52:49 system.
13:52:51 Bob Cline who runs the Hillsborough County fleet operation.
13:52:56 We also have examples of other, Disney World used the parts
13:53:09 house since 1998 and Polk County which has been doing this
13:53:13 for 14 years.
13:53:14 City of Sarasota just started out about nine months ago.
13:53:18 Pinellas County has been since October of 2014.
13:53:21 And also Hillsborough County for about ten years.
13:53:26 So in the last slide we have for you the proposed
13:53:29 implementation plan, or timeline, actually issued in July of
13:53:37 2014.
13:53:41 And this did include a site visit out at the fleet
13:53:44 maintenance operation, all the convenience vendors, there
13:53:47 were four of them, to tour the facility.
13:53:49 We had a period of questions and answers.
13:53:51 We did receive proposals on August 19th, the 2014.
13:53:56 We are coming to you today.
13:53:58 Let me back up just a second there.
13:54:00 We did meet with our employees, and we informed them of the
13:54:04 city's direction in terms of the contract point of
13:54:10 operation, and to ensure that in a one would be losing their
13:54:13 jobs so that's not an issue.
13:54:18 With council approval today we would move forward to
13:54:23 transition this to after the first of the year.
13:54:26 So we are here to answer any questions.
13:54:27 We do have representatives.
13:54:31 We also have Tim Perry to answer any questions you might
13:54:35 have.
13:54:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: A quick question, Mr. Spearman.
13:54:39 When you said no one loses their job does that mean those
13:54:42 currently working for the city are now going to be working
13:54:45 for the contractor?
13:54:46 Or are you talking about moving those particular five
13:54:49 individuals that are working for us now to other positions
13:54:51 throughout the city?
13:54:52 >> We do ask MANCON to offer any city employees impacted the
13:54:57 opportunity for employment.
13:54:58 We have not had any employees to accept that offer.
13:55:01 So they would remain with the city on the city's payroll in
13:55:06 another inventory operation.
13:55:07 >> So they won't lose their job by virtue of our finding
13:55:10 them other jobs?
13:55:12 >> That is correct.
13:55:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have some questions myself, along Mr.
13:55:17 Suarez's line.
13:55:21 First of all I haven't read the contract.
13:55:23 That doesn't mean that I haven't read this.
13:55:27 I'm a little leery about a five year contract.
13:55:30 And the debate process of 32 to 1 or whatever it was.
13:55:39 And for every action there's a reaction.
13:55:41 So if that's the case, and we are not on top of things, in
13:55:46 five years, if this goes on, who knows what the prices are?
13:55:51 It's never been rebided again.
13:55:52 It just keeps getting expensive.
13:55:55 And when something becomes a normality, we take it for
13:55:58 granted because we are human beings.
13:56:00 And those are the things that bother me.
13:56:04 When I see the charges -- and it looks very good when you
13:56:07 see it on the screen of 97,000 versus 1,548, that's true of
13:56:16 everything we do.
13:56:18 We have mandatory charges that are charged by the
13:56:20 administration to keep that operation going.
13:56:23 Am I right or wrong?
13:56:24 >> We do have --
13:56:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's an inflated figure, because it
13:56:30 happens all the time.
13:56:31 When I look at savings, and say, well, the city doesn't have
13:56:35 the inventory.
13:56:36 Well, either have the inventory or have the cash, one or the
13:56:40 two.
13:56:41 And at today's business rate inventory may be better than
13:56:44 crash because that product may cost more the next time you
13:56:47 bid it than that money earning one half of one percent.
13:56:50 All those things I look at in a business acumen side, and I
13:56:55 try to understand why.
13:56:58 If I had 37 annual bids to one, in five years who knows, one
13:57:05 of those 37 may be much different.
13:57:10 If this was a QTI, which is the new business coming in, you
13:57:14 might say, we would have to give an incentive to come in and
13:57:21 they would have had to pay a lot more than the average wage
13:57:27 earning now for QTI.
13:57:30 So that brings up another question in my mind.
13:57:31 Where are those employees going?
13:57:33 What are they going to do?
13:57:34 What are their salaries?
13:57:36 What are their benefits?
13:57:37 I don't know anything about this company I.don't know what
13:57:39 kind of salaries they pay.
13:57:40 I don't know what kind of insurance they give.
13:57:42 But what I don't want to create is a job where individuals
13:57:49 have to work and be on welfare at the same time.
13:57:52 I don't like that.
13:57:53 I really don't.
13:57:55 I want something that has some type of insurance so that
13:57:58 they cover themselves, not that I pay for, not the city, not
13:58:04 the administration.
13:58:05 And JIT, NSF, and NSF doesn't mean not sufficient funds, it
13:58:16 means not so fast.
13:58:19 So I look at these things and I say a hydraulic system.
13:58:33 Do you buy them or repair them?
13:58:35 I'm not an expert in this area but I guarantee if I was in
13:58:40 that department I would find out what the costs is to buy
13:58:43 and to repair because at the end of the day the one that's
13:58:47 repaired looks just as good as the one that you are buying
13:58:50 new.
13:58:54 Yes, that are repaired here from a vendor that we have had
13:58:57 for years, and they say, look, I'm saving you money.
13:59:01 That individual is making that hydraulic has got to have
13:59:04 some markup, just like we do in anything we service, to be
13:59:08 able to make a living and support his or her family.
13:59:12 So then they are going to buy it the same as we are, and
13:59:17 they are going to mark it up and going to make a profit.
13:59:20 All these things come to mind, like I shouldn't say
13:59:25 sometimes but that's the way I am.
13:59:27 Where are they going to store all these parts?
13:59:32 Do you know, sir?
13:59:35 I'm asking that gentleman right there.
13:59:36 >> Dick Clark, the president of MANCON.
13:59:43 To answer some of your questions, we are not an auto parts
13:59:47 supplier.
13:59:48 We are inventory management, service provider.
13:59:53 >> So like a hedge fund that's doing -- listen very
13:59:57 carefully -- I was born in Ybor City, raise it in the
14:00:00 housing projects and I have an IQ of 1.
14:00:03 But that 1 tells me I don't like what I see.
14:00:06 >> Okay, sir.
14:00:10 What we do is we actually buy from local vendors.
14:00:14 We are doing the same type of operation for the Department
14:00:17 of Transportation, or the Charlotte airport to be able for
14:00:25 that claim and quite right.
14:00:27 We try to manage the inventory that you have better so we
14:00:30 are able to provide the parts faster.
14:00:31 We look at who we are buying from now.
14:00:35 A lot of times we do buy from local people who are providing
14:00:38 it now.
14:00:42 We met with YNI selections in the area.
14:00:49 The risk of inventory is on us.
14:00:52 And that's the service we are providing is the management of
14:00:55 the inventory better than what is being provided there.
14:00:59 Regarding your comment in terms of the wages, we do pay
14:01:02 decent wages, for all the people we hire, the six
14:01:07 individuals.
14:01:08 They are in the range of $13 to $19 AP hour.
14:01:12 All of the individuals would have fully provided health
14:01:14 benefits for them at no charge to them.
14:01:16 And they can cover their dependents if they want tea at a
14:01:21 very reasonable rate somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 a
14:01:23 month.
14:01:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: When you said something about inventory,
14:01:29 I caught one part of it.
14:01:32 Are you referring to inventory that's missing?
14:01:39 Is that what this is all about?
14:01:42 We have missing inventory?
14:01:43 >> There's a cost of inventory in terms of --
14:01:47 >> That's what I'm saying, the cost of inventory.
14:01:51 >> Also anything that is obsolete for any time that
14:01:55 inventory goes missing, all of those types are costs --
14:01:58 >> I appreciate everything you said.
14:02:02 But if we have a problem in doing what we are doing, and if
14:02:05 we are not getting the best product for the best price and
14:02:09 not getting the best service from our employees for the best
14:02:11 price, that's my problem.
14:02:13 I shouldn't be here.
14:02:15 The people that operate that shouldn't be there.
14:02:18 The administration would have to tighten up and find out
14:02:21 what's wrong.
14:02:22 It's almost shameful for me to realize that if I do have a
14:02:27 problem, that someone can come in, and where are you going
14:02:31 to store these parts at?
14:02:32 >> We would be at the existing facilities.
14:02:34 >> Which one?
14:02:35 >> We would be in the two facilities that parts are
14:02:39 currently stored at.
14:02:40 >> So those facilities when you say where the parts are
14:02:43 stored at, so that means you are using city facilities?
14:02:46 >> Yes.
14:02:46 >> And what are they charging you for rent?
14:02:50 >> Nothing.
14:02:51 >> Wow!
14:02:54 They are charging no rent?
14:03:01 >> That is there's in a rent charged in the fee that we are
14:03:05 providing.
14:03:06 Also, we are doing this as a service, affixed monthly fee in
14:03:13 terms of the parts we provide no markup on the parts so we
14:03:16 are buying that filter for $5 we are selling it to you for
14:03:20 $5.
14:03:20 >> And where do you make your money?
14:03:22 You have to survive.
14:03:25 Paying employees 18 or $19.
14:03:29 >> It's all built into the fixed fee --
14:03:32 >> I'm sorry, I missed that.
14:03:33 >> It's all built into the fixed fee that's provided in the
14:03:37 labor that takes care of the labor and the cost of the
14:03:40 inventory and the systems that we have.
14:03:41 >> I notice that in the labor part, either we are
14:03:45 overstaffed or you are understaffed because five city
14:03:49 employees, one specialist, six, one inventory specialist,
14:03:54 seven, and three inventory -- that's ten.
14:03:57 You have one site manager which I assume is the specialist,
14:04:01 five customers -- three customer service where we have five
14:04:05 city employees, one general and one delivery, which we have,
14:04:10 and you have three, four, five, six, and we have ten.
14:04:13 Is it possible that we are overstaffed, and these four
14:04:17 employees could be put somewhere else so the balance sheet
14:04:20 would then match?
14:04:21 >> I know we are providing six employees.
14:04:25 I believe that my impression was the city currently has five
14:04:28 employees.
14:04:30 But I cannot speak to the city's staffing.
14:04:32 >> A total of three.
14:04:38 I am going over this real quickly.
14:04:40 So then we have got five employees.
14:04:42 And they have got six employees.
14:04:45 And their payroll is much less than ours.
14:04:48 So then we are paying 25 to $30 an hour?
14:04:52 >> I cannot speak to what they are paying their employees,
14:04:56 sir.
14:05:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do the benefits match those of the city?
14:05:03 >> I can tell you what my benefits are.
14:05:05 I do not --
14:05:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know because I don't know what
14:05:09 the benefits are because I haven't read the contract one way
14:05:11 or the other.
14:05:12 What I really need is a spreadsheet.
14:05:18 I buy tires.
14:05:20 You buy tires.
14:05:21 What are the savings?
14:05:21 I buy spark plugs.
14:05:23 You buy spark plugs.
14:05:24 What's your savings?
14:05:25 The cost of inventory to me is nil because money in the bank
14:05:30 is also nil.
14:05:31 There is no value of the rate of return.
14:05:35 So when I am looking at a product that I save for 30 days,
14:05:39 if I am going to put in 500 tires on police cars, let's say,
14:05:43 and I buy them, I don't keep them for six months.
14:05:46 I buy them because somewhere along the line those cars have
14:05:50 a certain amount of mileage that I should change them so
14:05:54 it's protected and I don't have to go around and get accused
14:05:58 of manslaughter or something.
14:05:59 I don't know. But these are things that run in my mind real
14:06:02 quickly.
14:06:02 I have nothing against you or your company.
14:06:04 But you are in Virginia, right?
14:06:06 >> Correct.
14:06:16 >> Five years is very trouble.
14:06:20 I don't know in five years, we had one that didn't go so
14:06:25 well.
14:06:26 I think it was four or five years.
14:06:29 That would have hit me right between the eyes.
14:06:31 But all these things I see that somehow, either we are not
14:06:38 doing it right.
14:06:40 If we did do it right there was no need.
14:06:42 When I see all the cities that you have going to, that's
14:06:46 fine.
14:06:46 But how many cities are there in Florida?
14:06:48 And how many do you do?
14:06:51 I have nothing against your company or you.
14:06:53 But I have got to protect my asset into something of value
14:06:57 that I have that institutional knowledge of those employees
14:07:00 of what they do is a great value that is not put here as an
14:07:05 asset.
14:07:06 Your asset is the people around you and your company.
14:07:09 My asset, the people around us, and our city.
14:07:14 These are the things that I look at when I study a financial
14:07:17 pro forma.
14:07:18 And I don't come out to a good conclusion in my mind.
14:07:24 I'm only speaking for me.
14:07:25 I'm not speaking for all the council members.
14:07:27 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Chairman Miranda, there is not a problem
14:07:32 in terms of the management of the fleet inventory at all.
14:07:36 We actually do an annual inventory of all of our locations
14:07:41 every year.
14:07:41 We have the records to show those inventory come back clean,
14:07:47 there's not been any issues in any of those locations and
14:07:51 even our fleet.
14:07:51 What we are trying to do is basically put an operation in
14:07:55 place that's going to make it a lot easier for police
14:08:00 management, to repair vehicles a lot faster.
14:08:04 As seen in the presentation that we are currently at 44%
14:08:08 demand rate.
14:08:08 This contract is going to take us from 44% to 80%.
14:08:12 So if we have an 80% demand, we have more parts available on
14:08:19 hand which we make an investment in, and fleet is going to
14:08:22 be able to do those vehicle sales, because now we don't have
14:08:26 to stop for the parts and wait for that vehicle to be
14:08:31 repaired while it's sitting on the rack because these guys
14:08:37 would have a lot more stock in inventory and they also have
14:08:40 a very strategic sourcing mechanism in place to get the
14:08:46 parts in place.
14:08:49 If the city can afford to make the investment and monitor,
14:08:54 for example, we would do that.
14:08:55 But that's just not feasible for us to do that.
14:08:58 The best that we can do right now is about 44 percent within
14:09:01 our current city budget.
14:09:03 Keep in mind that nothing is charged to the city until the
14:09:09 parts come across the county and through a work order and
14:09:13 into a vehicle.
14:09:13 The costs are all going back manually there on the shelf.
14:09:17 So if there is an issue of ab some lessens, if the fleet
14:09:21 should happen to change and we go to -- it's up to them to
14:09:27 make sure they have inventory in stock.
14:09:31 So it's really a management tool that actually helps fleet
14:09:36 management do a better job of running the operations so they
14:09:39 can get the vehicle, the equipment back on the road so we
14:09:42 can do a better job of services the citizens.
14:09:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I apologize to council.
14:09:48 I will just take a couple more minutes.
14:09:49 I agree, at one time we had various types of automobiles and
14:09:52 everything was mishmash and everything -- we fixed that 20
14:09:56 years ago.
14:09:57 We started buying cars for the police department, they were
14:10:00 run down.
14:10:00 We buy them every so often, seven, eight years, whatever it
14:10:04 is.
14:10:04 So this should be less productivity on parts that we had
14:10:09 from 20 years ago to now.
14:10:10 And that's the way it should be.
14:10:12 What is bothersome to me in my mind is that if we have all
14:10:16 these computers at work, and they tell you how old the car
14:10:21 was and everything else, how in the world can I not -- they
14:10:26 say, well, they are going to computerize the system and we
14:10:30 send it and they put the part in and it's eliminated and
14:10:34 these things are on demand.
14:10:36 Everything should be on demand.
14:10:37 The wording is here like I was writing a script for a movie.
14:10:42 What I should be able to do is the same thing they are doing
14:10:44 at less cost.
14:10:46 If the building is mine, they lease the building for free.
14:10:50 I don't see how that's done.
14:10:51 I don't think any building in the city that I have, I
14:10:55 meaning the city has, is leased out for free.
14:10:58 In exchange for what I heard, for $5, I sell it to you for
14:11:03 $5.
14:11:04 Well, how do they pay what the overhead is?
14:11:07 There's something here that I haven't hit on because I
14:11:09 haven't read that contract and I don't know the exact
14:11:12 wording on it.
14:11:13 So we should have the same demand thing where a vendor --
14:11:17 and they admitted they are going to buy from local vendors,
14:11:20 will have the same parts delivered at the same price at the
14:11:23 same time.
14:11:23 That's what's troubling to me.
14:11:24 >>GREG SPEARMAN: There is a management fee, Councilman
14:11:28 Miranda, that we will be paying the vendor for these
14:11:31 services.
14:11:31 And we are not charging rent because we are not getting a
14:11:34 markup on the cost of the parts.
14:11:37 And this is not a for-profit operation where the city would
14:11:42 be benefiting it from it like we do at the contract at the
14:11:45 convention center, like the contract that approves the
14:11:48 convention center, there is a business center operation.
14:11:51 We get a percentage of that because it's a for-profit
14:11:53 operation.
14:11:56 They are making money St. This is not that type of contract.
14:12:01 We are paying a management fee.
14:12:03 We are not getting a markup on the parts.
14:12:05 They are selling us at cost of the product at their cost.
14:12:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, if the wording where it's the same
14:12:13 thing under a different Avenue, because at the end, somebody
14:12:16 has got to make money to pay.
14:12:18 And I'm very troubled by the part that we are giving away a
14:12:23 building for no cost.
14:12:24 Nowhere that I know of.
14:12:26 In fact we rent space for our clinics.
14:12:29 We rent and pay.
14:12:32 And yet we are giving away a building.
14:12:34 I'm very troubled by that.
14:12:41 Mechanics to do something by giving away for free, I don't
14:12:44 think any government has the right to do that.
14:12:46 >> We are getting a substantial benefit in terms of lower
14:12:49 parts costs --
14:12:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then you can't compare the original cost
14:12:53 of the part to what they are buying to what they are buying
14:12:55 it for because there's in a markup.
14:12:57 The markup is hidden somewhere else.
14:12:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, they can afford to buy in greater
14:13:02 volumes than we can which means that they can buy at less
14:13:06 cost so they don't have to have a markup on them.
14:13:09 >> Rogero: I believe, council, the cost of the rent of the
14:13:16 building is built into the contract.
14:13:18 >> Associated with the contract.
14:13:22 >> There was no --
14:13:27 >> Come up to the microphone.
14:13:28 Come up to the microphone.
14:13:29 >> State your name, sir.
14:13:31 >> Rick Clark from MANCON.
14:13:38 There is in a rent in the cost because it was stated
14:13:40 facilities were at no cost.
14:13:41 >> And I guess what I am trying to get at is the statement
14:13:47 we are giving away a building for free.
14:13:49 I hope to explain that clearly.
14:13:50 In return for the services being provided, we are allowing
14:13:54 use of city space for the inventory that will be used on
14:13:59 demand.
14:14:00 And if I understood the discussion -- I apologize -- but we
14:14:05 are not giving away a building for free.
14:14:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I highlight to differ from you.
14:14:09 The way the contract is written, what I heard, because I
14:14:13 haven't read the contract.
14:14:14 You are giving away a building because you can't match up
14:14:17 price to price, cost to cost, because the cost is incurred
14:14:21 in the building, and other avenues that they get back.
14:14:24 And I just don't do business that way.
14:14:26 I can't compare, I can't find out, and it's much more
14:14:30 difficult.
14:14:31 And I'm not questioning, but I guarantee you -- I will give
14:14:35 you an example.
14:14:36 My battery died about two weeks ago.
14:14:39 Out of warranty.
14:14:40 And I don't mind to say it, it was a warranty from Sears.
14:14:44 The battery died.
14:14:50 I thought there was something wrong with the battery.
14:14:52 And I found it had no water.
14:14:55 So the next morning, I take the car to Sears, and to look at
14:15:00 it.
14:15:00 You know what they told me?
14:15:02 Because you opened the cells, you ruined the warranty.
14:15:06 I didn't argue with them.
14:15:08 I got the car and left.
14:15:17 Not that I am ever going to buy from Sears again because I
14:15:19 am not.
14:15:20 I went to three vendors.
14:15:22 I went to BJs. They didn't have the battery.
14:15:23 I went to Auto Zone.
14:15:28 They didn't have the battery in stock.
14:15:30 There was $170 battery for the amount of voltage that I
14:15:34 needed.
14:15:35 And I would have bought the battery if they had it in stock.
14:15:39 The next day I go to Sam's.
14:15:41 I bought the same voltage battery for $99.
14:15:46 So it's how you price things and how you look and how you
14:15:52 find the price.
14:15:53 I'm not saying they are low or high.
14:15:55 I'm just saying we haven't compared enough.
14:15:59 I haven't.
14:15:59 I don't know what the other council members are going to
14:16:02 say.
14:16:02 And I apologize again for the time that I have taken.
14:16:04 And I can stop right here.
14:16:06 Mrs. Montelione wanted the floor, then Mrs. Capin.
14:16:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, sir.
14:16:11 As we should comment to the points that you raise, Mr.
14:16:17 Spearman and I have had a conference regarding this, because
14:16:22 when I saw this, I had concerns initially.
14:16:27 But as I generally do on the contracts he sends to us for
14:16:33 approval.
14:16:36 And I asked about the employees.
14:16:39 And what I read here today -- and I may be mistaken, because
14:16:47 I think a few weeks ago before it was even an agenda item
14:16:50 that we spoke about it.
14:16:55 I was under the impression -- and like I said, maybe I
14:16:58 misinterpreted -- the employees are going where?
14:17:03 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The employees will remain as city
14:17:05 employees.
14:17:12 With all city benefits.
14:17:13 >> So the employees are staying with the city and they are
14:17:16 not losing any benefits, and they are going to remain city
14:17:19 employees with all the benefits.
14:17:23 At sometimes a detriment to being a city employee has.
14:17:31 In the MANCON contract I see -- this provision seems a
14:17:35 little bit different, but it is standard for us to have a
14:17:39 provision where if things aren't working out we can cancel
14:17:42 the contract.
14:17:43 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That is correct.
14:17:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Where it's in the section on page 3 of 6
14:17:49 of the contract says, either party may terminate this
14:17:52 agreement if the other party fails to perform any of its
14:17:55 material obligations.
14:17:57 The party shall give notice to the other party that a fault
14:18:02 exists.
14:18:03 And they have the right to do it within ten days.
14:18:08 So if things aren't quite working out the way we planned, we
14:18:11 can cancel this contract.
14:18:12 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Correct.
14:18:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What would be examples of default?
14:18:18 I mean, it's not a pricing game.
14:18:20 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We will be looking -- they are required to
14:18:24 submit necessary invoices, and we will do that to make sure
14:18:29 there is not a markup on that.
14:18:31 But let's say, for example, not maintaining the 0% on
14:18:36 demand and they fall below that, then that would be
14:18:39 considered a material breech under the contract.
14:18:41 And if that happened on a consistent basis, given --
14:18:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: They would be out of here.
14:18:47 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Yes.
14:18:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And generally, I have the same concern
14:18:54 as the chairman about allowing other companies to operate
14:18:59 out of our facilities free of charge.
14:19:06 We rents our facilities, as a matter of fact, there's a
14:19:08 lease on our agenda today for parking that the city needs,
14:19:12 so we are going to be paying someone to lease parking.
14:19:17 And that's a concern.
14:19:20 But there are some things in my mind that government does
14:19:23 really well and there are some things in my mind that
14:19:25 government isn't quite prepared to do.
14:19:29 Keeping up with technology maybe is one of the things he
14:19:32 would don't do as well as the private sector.
14:19:36 I think that with the contracts that I have seen before come
14:19:42 to us -- not contracts, purchase orders for specialty parts
14:19:46 are usually -- you know I have always given you a hard time
14:19:52 about that.
14:19:53 So it doesn't seem like we are changing a lot of how we are
14:20:00 doing this business, but we are saving money from the method
14:20:06 that we are considering today.
14:20:07 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are saving money and the items that
14:20:11 will come before you or formerly came before you on items,
14:20:17 but the responsibility of MANCON to provide.
14:20:21 So that particular type of procurement actually goes away in
14:20:26 terms of parts.
14:20:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So we'll have less conversation about
14:20:30 the sole sourcing then.
14:20:34 You know, if this were something that had -- that we were
14:20:38 outsourcing for direct services to our citizens, if this had
14:20:47 some element of a decision-making process where it would
14:20:52 affect our citizens, I would be totally against it.
14:20:58 You know, I think when it comes to making decisions, what
14:21:03 the city is or is not going to do that directly affects one
14:21:08 of our citizens or someone who is operating a business here
14:21:10 in the city limits, I prefer to have a city employee making
14:21:15 those decisions because there's accountability there as a
14:21:20 city employee.
14:21:21 But a parts where house, you know, I think the private
14:21:28 sector probably knows how to operate a parts warehouse
14:21:32 better than city government does.
14:21:33 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It will definitely allow fleet management
14:21:38 to concentration on the core examples.
14:21:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So although I have initially concerns,
14:21:46 the conversation you and I had a couple of weeks ago and
14:21:49 actually being provided the contract and looking at the
14:21:51 terms, I think that if it's not working out, we cut 'em
14:21:58 loose.
14:21:58 Thank you.
14:22:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin.
14:22:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
14:22:04 The way I'm looking at this is that we are paying a fee to a
14:22:09 company to manage our inventory.
14:22:14 Is that pretty close to what we are doing?
14:22:16 >>GREG SPEARMAN: With a management contract.
14:22:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: With a management contract to manage our
14:22:25 inventory whether from outside or in the warehouse or
14:22:29 wherever.
14:22:29 Okay.
14:22:35 That process makes sense.
14:22:39 To operate the parts store.
14:22:40 Okay.
14:22:41 Then I did ask for these different municipalities and how
14:22:45 long they have been in contract operated parts store which
14:22:55 is COPS model, we have Polk County, Hillsborough County ten
14:23:01 years, Ocala ten years, city of St. Petersburg two years,
14:23:04 city of Sarasota nine months, Pinellas County awarded a COPS
14:23:10 contract in October with a two-year term with options to
14:23:13 renew.
14:23:13 Ours is, what, five years?
14:23:15 >> Initial term is five years, right.
14:23:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: But we can opt out depending on the
14:23:21 circumstances.
14:23:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Correct.
14:23:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
14:23:25 Now I am going to tell you about my battery story.
14:23:29 (Laughter)
14:23:29 My battery went out two weeks ago also, but it was right
14:23:33 here in front of this building, and it was 10:00 at night
14:23:38 when we got out of City Council.
14:23:40 And I was not about to -- so the next morning called up, and
14:23:44 I was desperate, I called AAA to come help me with my --
14:23:48 pick up my battery, whatever it is that they do, jump it.
14:23:52 And I'm told, you know what?
14:23:54 AAA sells batteries.
14:23:55 Now, I could have gone to Sam's and bought a $99 battery,
14:24:00 but I bought a $129 battery from AAA.
14:24:03 They came here, they put the battery in my car, took the old
14:24:07 one and had a warranty.
14:24:09 So that's my story with the battery.
14:24:11 So there's many stories to go around.
14:24:13 So here we go.
14:24:14 I appreciate your answer about the management.
14:24:19 And I'm satisfied.
14:24:20 Thank you.
14:24:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
14:24:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'm ready with my battery story, too.
14:24:27 I'm kidding.
14:24:28 I changed it so it's totally different.
14:24:31 A couple of questions.
14:24:32 You know, what's great sometimes when we are hear on council
14:24:36 is that Chairman Miranda really gave me a lot of other
14:24:39 things to think about, and I'm following through in terms of
14:24:41 the contract, looking through it, and I'm curious, though.
14:24:45 I didn't see anything in terms of the purchase of the parts
14:24:47 themselves with this contract.
14:24:50 Did I miss something?
14:24:52 >>GREG SPEARMAN: No, no, no.
14:24:55 They did provide a schedule of the parts and the contract,
14:24:59 major categories.
14:25:01 Most of the kind of things that we buy.
14:25:03 So we did get responses from MANCON on those.
14:25:08 The reason that we are able to determine how to -- the
14:25:13 companies that submit proposals.
14:25:15 >> I guess the point is they will pay us on an orderly basis
14:25:20 meaning that when we order that particular part from our
14:25:25 location, that they are managing, if it's there, one that we
14:25:29 have already determined is there, then we will receive
14:25:34 payment from them for that particular part, I assume.
14:25:38 Because that $250,000 that you mentioned is not in the
14:25:41 contract.
14:25:42 So my guess is that they are holding it, and then they are
14:25:46 going to pay us, and run off the parts would be my guess.
14:25:51 >> For both parts -- Tim, do you want to --
14:25:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And sit down.
14:26:01 Because this is where I'm going with it.
14:26:03 This is where Mr. Miranda's idea about giving a free place
14:26:07 to manage our own parts, my guess -- I don't not this and I
14:26:12 don't expect the people of MANCON to answer this particular
14:26:17 question -- but if I have $253,000 worth of inventory those
14:26:21 already purchased and paid for and I have to pay it back,
14:26:24 now I can use that for all the other contracts, management
14:26:30 company, management of inventory, and they can send it
14:26:34 somewhere else and maybe make more money off it and be able
14:26:36 to pay us back to whatever our agreed-to price is.
14:26:40 And there's nothing wrong with that.
14:26:41 It's just that's the way business is, I would guess, and
14:26:44 that's why when it comes up to this management contract it
14:26:47 makes it a little more cost effective for them.
14:26:50 See, I couldn't figure out how you would make any money
14:26:53 until I realized that they are not paying upfront dollars
14:26:56 for inventory that we have already purchased.
14:26:58 They are going to pay us back based on whatever our pricing
14:27:01 is now.
14:27:02 So there may be parts that we are agreeing to sell them
14:27:07 that's much more expensive and better in the open market
14:27:09 that they can sell and make more money off of it.
14:27:12 That's my guess.
14:27:13 I may be wrong about that but that's kind of how the trick
14:27:17 of the whole contract is, in my mind, which is they are
14:27:21 using our inventory in order to move inventory to other
14:27:25 places.
14:27:25 It's not going to stay there, I don't think.
14:27:27 They aren't going to sit on $253,000 worth of inventory.
14:27:35 Why not move it?
14:27:36 And that's my guess.
14:27:40 And Gregory, I am not saying that you are going to know that
14:27:42 answer and I am not expecting them to answer that specific,
14:27:45 you know, inside their business model answer because it may
14:27:49 be in their minds proprietary.
14:27:51 Maybe it's the way they do it.
14:27:53 But that's the sail game we are playing here.
14:27:55 And I mean shell game not in illegal going on, but the way
14:27:59 things are moved, the way money and property and everything
14:28:02 else is moved.
14:28:03 These what I think is happening here, you know.
14:28:05 I think if the man from MANCON wants to answer my question
14:28:10 and you can go ahead if you want.
14:28:14 Don't speak from the audience, please.
14:28:15 That's my job.
14:28:16 I get to scream from here to you.
14:28:19 You can say something.
14:28:19 >>> Well, I did tell you -- well, first, the annual
14:28:23 purchases of fleet parts is roughly 2.5 million.
14:28:29 So you are talking about $250,000, roughly one month's worth
14:28:33 of parts.
14:28:34 I can tell you that was not our intent.
14:28:36 We did not know the price of everything in their inventory
14:28:40 is or --
14:28:41 >> Let me stop you right now.
14:28:42 If you don't know what the price of all the inventory is,
14:28:45 why is it in this presentation?
14:28:46 >> Because --
14:28:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: There has to be some backup material that
14:28:53 indicates the pricing or else we wouldn't make this deal.
14:28:56 I think you know that and I know it.
14:28:57 >> The RFP stated as one of the conditions of the contract
14:29:03 the awardee of the contract is awarded would purchase all
14:29:05 the existing inventory.
14:29:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Right.
14:29:09 So enter the price there.
14:29:12 I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt because I
14:29:14 don't think that's what you meant.
14:29:15 You know what the price is for the inventory that we
14:29:17 currently have.
14:29:18 >> I know the rough idea of the grand total.
14:29:21 Obviously it changes every single day as parts are purchased
14:29:24 and parts are used.
14:29:25 >> And we have already heard from Mr. Spearman our inventory
14:29:29 group is very well run so we already know what that cost is.
14:29:32 >> And you do know what the cost is, grand total, and on
14:29:37 individual parts.
14:29:38 I do not know what it is in individual parts.
14:29:41 I can tell you it is not our intent to move any of those
14:29:44 parts that are moving out of the location.
14:29:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me interrupt you for a second.
14:29:49 I can't hold you to anything except what's in the contract
14:29:52 and I would prefer that you don't say anything in the future
14:29:55 may be untrue, and may not be part of your business model,
14:29:58 but I guarantee you if someone is going to offer you more
14:30:01 for the part you are going to sell it to somebody for a much
14:30:05 bigger markup.
14:30:06 You can't just sell it to us for a markup which is what the
14:30:10 contract says.
14:30:10 And again that's why I don't want you necessarily to say
14:30:13 anything because if you want to come on the record now that
14:30:15 you won't do that, when we come back and we look at this
14:30:18 contract, because the next thing I am going to ask the chair
14:30:21 is a motion to have a report back to us next year as to the
14:30:26 performance of this contract if it gets passed P.I don't
14:30:29 want you to be in a position in which you are lying to us
14:30:31 because that wouldn't be good for you or your business.
14:30:33 >> I can make a commitment to you on the record, that we
14:30:39 won't move any of the inventory there out of that location.
14:30:45 Let me finish.
14:30:46 >> okay.
14:30:47 >> I was going to say, if after a year parts that we
14:30:51 purchase from you have not been used, then I would have the
14:30:55 ability to move them somewhere else.
14:30:57 So to the degree there's something on the shelf, hasn't been
14:31:01 used after a year, that I have a way to get rid of it, to
14:31:08 put it somewhere else.
14:31:09 And I can tell you that with only three exceptions.
14:31:14 All the other contracts we have are contracts where there is
14:31:18 not a markup on the parts.
14:31:20 So if I try to transfer them to one of the other contracts,
14:31:25 there is an additional markup, I am not making any
14:31:27 additional money on that.
14:31:29 >> Mr. Rogero, is the administration willing to put that in
14:31:32 a contract, since he is actually putting that down as part
14:31:36 of an agreement?
14:31:37 I didn't ask for it, as you noticed.
14:31:39 Are you willing to as part of our deal to go ahead pending
14:31:43 approval that we will have that put in the contract?
14:31:45 >> I am certainly willing to do that but I would prefer to
14:31:49 my procurement specialist.
14:31:52 We can do that?
14:31:54 >> And I appreciate that because at least we know when we
14:31:56 are talking about the numbers -- and again, you know, and I
14:32:00 want to make sure that everyone from the folks at MANCON, I
14:32:03 was not implying in any way what my thoughts were, was in
14:32:06 any way illegal or immoral.
14:32:09 I want you to know that.
14:32:10 I kind of thought I figured out how you can make this thing
14:32:13 work for you financially.
14:32:14 And I am not an expert at it but I just thought that was it.
14:32:17 But we will put that in the contract and you accept that, is
14:32:21 that correct?
14:32:21 >> Yes, sir.
14:32:22 >> And Mr. Spearman is here that we can go ahead and do than
14:32:25 that.
14:32:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just two also things.
14:32:27 In all my years of public service, as we make contracts with
14:32:34 501(c)3 to help those less fortunate than we are, and gives
14:32:38 kids a place to play, I have never ever given a building
14:32:43 away for free to use, or that whoever is in there.
14:32:46 What is the size of the building?
14:32:48 >> It's 3,000?
14:33:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have never, ever given away a building
14:33:04 for no fee, where since it's a city building, the city
14:33:09 doesn't get anything, the county doesn't get anything, and
14:33:11 the school system doesn't get anything.
14:33:13 And I have just never done that.
14:33:16 And we are talking about inventory, inventory.
14:33:18 The inventory that talking about the 200 that you, is that
14:33:23 inventory of the actual cost when the city bought it or is
14:33:26 that cost of the inventory?
14:33:29 >> That's the actual cost, the city bought it at a
14:33:38 competitive bid and on the shelf.
14:33:40 And the reason we go with that number, what it is, getting
14:33:43 back to Councilman Suarez's question, can actually run the
14:33:48 system.
14:33:48 And as MANCON has indicated, we are constantly bringing
14:33:52 things in, taking things out.
14:33:54 So that number may adjust a little bit up or down.
14:33:57 We will have a date that we will set for a final count with
14:34:01 our auditors and with MANCON present, agree what that is on
14:34:05 that particular day.
14:34:07 And that's what they write a check for.
14:34:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If any motion is going to be made on item
14:34:13 number 9.
14:34:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll move to approve the contract with the
14:34:18 speculation -- excuse me, with the addition of the comments
14:34:20 made by the representative from MANCON including the pricing
14:34:24 of the inventory as part of backup material, and that that
14:34:29 inventory will not be sold at any other place and will only
14:34:32 be sold directly to us per contract.
14:34:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Contract, a second
14:34:38 by Mrs. Montelione, item number 9, file 2014-060.
14:34:49 >> I would like to make another motion, that city staff come
14:34:54 back to us within a nine-month period to determine as to how
14:35:01 this particular contract is working concerning inventory,
14:35:04 and how they are providing inventory to us.
14:35:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
14:35:11 I have a second by Mrs. Montelione.
14:35:12 All in favor of the motion?
14:35:16 Motion passed unanimously.
14:35:17 Thank you all very much.
14:35:19 We go to item number 12.
14:35:24 Ordinance presented for first reading.
14:35:25 And I know that staff told me the petitioner was here but
14:35:31 wasn't feeling well and he left or something.
14:35:33 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
14:35:37 Item number 12 is a text amendment, a privately initiated
14:35:41 text amendment for the zoning code.
14:35:44 The applicant actually had a medical emergency and couldn't
14:35:48 be present today.
14:35:50 There has been no opposition to the proposed request.
14:35:54 However, I believe that this first reading should have been
14:35:57 an evening reading.
14:35:59 So if it's your pleasure to approve first reading today, we
14:36:02 would do second reading January 15th at 5:30.
14:36:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
14:36:09 this item, item number 12?
14:36:12 I see no one.
14:36:13 We don't have to do anything.
14:36:15 I just want to make sure there was no opposition.
14:36:18 Okay, Mr. Suarez, would you kindly read number 12, please.
14:36:22 First reading.
14:36:23 >> Present and ordinance for first reading consideration, an
14:36:27 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida related to the
14:36:29 individual special uses, making revisions to the City of
14:36:33 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning and land
14:36:36 development, amending section 27-43, definitions, amending
14:36:40 section 27-132, regulations governing individual special
14:36:45 uses, amending section 27-156, official schedule of district
14:36:51 regulation, amending section 27-177, historic district
14:36:55 established, amending section 27-198, official schedule of
14:36:59 permitted principal, accessory and special uses, amending
14:37:04 section 27-211.8, schedule of permitted uses by district,
14:37:08 repealing all ordinances or part of ordinances in conflict
14:37:11 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
14:37:14 effective date.
14:37:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion on first reading by Mr.
14:37:17 Suarez to approve E-2014-8 chapter 27 seconded by Mrs.
14:37:23 Montelione.
14:37:24 All in favor?
14:37:26 Opposed?
14:37:27 Motion passed unanimously.
14:37:28 >>THE CLERK: Second reading will be held on February
14:37:32 15th at 5:30 p.m.
14:37:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to Public Safety Committee chair
14:37:38 Mr. Frank Reddick.
14:37:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move items 137 through 14.
14:37:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick to move 13
14:37:48 and 14 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
14:37:51 Further discussion by council members?
14:37:52 All in favor?
14:37:53 Opposed?
14:37:53 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:37:55 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee, vice chair Lisa
14:37:58 Montelione.
14:37:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 15 through 27.
14:38:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione.
14:38:05 I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
14:38:06 Further discussion by council members?
14:38:08 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
14:38:10 Opposed nay.
14:38:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:38:13 Public Works Committee, Mr. Suarez.
14:38:17 >> I move 28 through 32.
14:38:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez.
14:38:21 I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
14:38:22 Further discussion by council members?
14:38:23 All in favor of the motion?
14:38:25 Opposed?
14:38:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:38:27 Finance Committee chair Mr. Harry Cohen.
14:38:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Move items 33 through 39.
14:38:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
14:38:34 I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
14:38:35 Further discussion by council members?
14:38:37 All in favor of the motion?
14:38:39 Opposed?
14:38:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:38:41 Building, Zoning and Preservation Committee chair, Lisa
14:38:45 Montelione.
14:38:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Before I move the items I want to
14:38:49 highlight a couple of things.
14:38:51 They are all related to homeless services.
14:38:55 This morning, we moved that report by Mr. Snelling to
14:39:00 January but I want to point out we are moving forward with
14:39:03 some of the homeless counseling programs and housing
14:39:07 counseling programs related to the homeless of our city.
14:39:11 With that, I move items 40 through 58.
14:39:14 >> Second.
14:39:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr.
14:39:19 Cohen.
14:39:20 All in favor of the motion?
14:39:22 Opposed?
14:39:23 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:39:25 Transportation committee chair Mr. Yolie Capin.
14:39:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 59 through 61.
14:39:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mr.
14:39:36 Suarez on a close vote with Mr. Cohen.
14:39:38 All in favor of that motion?
14:39:41 Opposed?
14:39:41 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:39:43 Need to open public hearing 62, and then we are going to do
14:39:49 63 through 66.
14:39:56 66 was held during the first, so we'll do through 65, and
14:40:05 then 67 through 70.
14:40:07 Need a motion for that.
14:40:08 >>HARRY COHEN: So moved.
14:40:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, seconded by Mrs.
14:40:13 Capin.
14:40:14 Discussion by council members?
14:40:15 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:40:16 62.
14:40:17 This is a public hearing for second reading and adoption.
14:40:20 An ordinance of the City of Tampa.
14:40:23 Is petitioner here?
14:40:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe this was city initiated.
14:40:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone care to wish to speak on 62?
14:40:38 62?
14:40:39 I see no one.
14:40:40 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
14:40:42 Seconded by Mr. Suarez on a close vote with Mrs. Capin.
14:40:47 All in favor?
14:40:48 The eyes have it unanimously.
14:40:49 Mrs. Capin, would you take number 62?
14:40:51 >> I'm having an allergy -- I took something but it's not
14:40:56 working as fast as I would like.
14:40:58 If you don't mind.
14:41:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
14:41:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance being presented for
14:41:06 second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of
14:41:08 Tampa, Florida relating to code enforcement by granting
14:41:11 enforcement authority of section 5-105 and chapter 21 to the
14:41:15 department of neighborhood empowerment by amending City of
14:41:17 Tampa code of ordinances section 19-4, repealing all
14:41:21 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith,
14:41:24 providing for severability, providing an effective date.
14:41:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval by Mr.
14:41:29 Reddick on second reading on item 62, seconded by Mrs.
14:41:33 Montelione on a close vote with Mr. Cohen.
14:41:35 Roll call vote.
14:41:36 Vote and record.
14:41:51 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chair, the motion passed unanimously.
14:42:01 With Mulhern absent.
14:42:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone that wants to speak to items 63
14:42:07 through 70, please raise your hand and be sworn in by the
14:42:11 clerk.
14:42:11 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:42:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item 63, C 09-09 ordinance for
14:42:27 second reading regarding closures of areas, rights-of-way in
14:42:32 Ybor City.
14:42:32 Is petitioner here?
14:42:38 What happened to the city?
14:42:39 Is this a city petition?
14:42:41 Item number 63.
14:42:57 Anyone in the audience care to speak on number 63?
14:42:59 >> Good afternoon.
14:43:02 Land use committee for Old Seminole Heights.
14:43:06 I have a little question on this one come on because we did
14:43:09 not get a notice on this.
14:43:10 And if I can read the street directions to put that in our
14:43:15 area.
14:43:21 My concern is that that alley that hi didn't know how to
14:43:24 name joins residential property, and I know there's a
14:43:27 proposed project that somebody is working on on Cayuga and
14:43:32 Florida, and when they came to our land use committee and
14:43:35 asked about it, we were opposed to them trying to make all
14:43:38 the zoning commercial general.
14:43:40 We wanted it as a PD to control it.
14:43:43 So I'm a little concerned with the alley going away without
14:43:48 having him noticed as a neighborhood.
14:43:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I have Mrs. Montelione.
14:43:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This is an ordinance passed in 2009,
14:43:59 which is why there was no notice.
14:44:02 Because all we are doing is correcting an error in the
14:44:05 filing because a page was missing.
14:44:07 >> Okay.
14:44:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It was originally passed.
14:44:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience top speak on
14:44:16 item number 63, please come forward.
14:44:18 I see no one.
14:44:19 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, second by Mr. Cohen.
14:44:21 Further discussion by council members?
14:44:23 All in favor?
14:44:24 Opposed?
14:44:24 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:44:26 Mr. Cohen, would you kindly take number 63, please?
14:44:29 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance being presented for
14:44:31 second reading and adoption, an ordinance correcting an
14:44:34 error in ordinance number 2009-168 which authorized the
14:44:38 vacating, closing, discontinuing, and abandoning of certain
14:44:42 rights-of-way all that portion of Ybor street south of east
14:44:45 Cayuga street, north of east Emma street, east of North
14:44:49 Florida Avenue and west of north Suwannee Avenue in Leslie's
14:44:53 plat of the west half a subdivision in the city of Tampa,
14:44:56 Florida amending said ordinance to add a missing painful,
14:44:59 providing for severability, providing an effective date.
14:45:00 >> I have a motion for adoption by Mr. Cohen on item number
14:45:04 63.
14:45:04 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
14:45:06 Roll call vote.
14:45:07 Vote and record.
14:45:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion passed unanimously with Mulhern absent
14:45:22 at vote.
14:45:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 64.
14:45:27 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
14:45:29 Item number 64 is a second reading for rezoning on Kennedy
14:45:32 Boulevard.
14:45:34 It has been certified.
14:45:35 Copies have been provided to the clerk and staff is
14:45:38 available for any questions.
14:45:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:45:40 Petitioner?
14:45:46 >>DAVID MECHANIK: 305 South Boulevard here on behalf of
14:45:48 Tampa General Hospital.
14:45:50 We are just here to ask your support on second reading.
14:45:53 Thank you.
14:45:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
14:45:55 item number 64, REZ 14-62, please come forward.
14:46:00 I see no one.
14:46:01 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
14:46:03 Second by Mr. Cohen.
14:46:04 Further discussion by council members?
14:46:05 All in favor of the motion to close?
14:46:08 Opposed?
14:46:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:46:10 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly take number 64, please?
14:46:14 >> Move an ordinance being presented for second reading and
14:46:16 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
14:46:18 vicinity of 1307 West Kennedy Boulevard and 109 north Willow
14:46:22 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
14:46:24 described in section 1 from zoning district classifications
14:46:28 PD planned development, medical and business/professional
14:46:32 office, professional residential facility, hotel/motel,
14:46:36 daycare, nursery facility, college and all CI uses to PD,
14:46:39 planned development, medical and business professional
14:46:42 office, professional residential facility, hotel motel
14:46:46 daycare and nursery facility and college providing an
14:46:49 effective date.
14:46:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione.
14:46:53 Second by Mr. Cohen.
14:46:54 This is second reading for adoption.
14:47:05 This is a roll call vote on item number 64.
14:47:08 Vote and record.
14:47:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern absent
14:47:21 at vote.
14:47:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:47:22 Item number 65.
14:47:25 65.
14:47:25 >> Cathy Ginster, legal department, here for the second and
14:47:34 final public hearing for the application for a brownfield
14:47:37 area designation for the Spruce Street number 2 property,
14:47:44 and following this public hearing, council had the
14:47:46 opportunity to pass resolution approving the brownfield
14:47:49 which will allow the applicant to apply for State of Florida
14:47:52 for financial incentives to clean up and redevelop the
14:47:55 property.
14:47:56 The city staff is recommending the designation and all
14:48:02 public notice requirements have been satisfied.
14:48:06 At the end of the hearing and again council has opportunity
14:48:09 to approve the designation.
14:48:10 Thank you.
14:48:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak to
14:48:14 item number 65, F 2014-208.
14:48:18 Please come forward.
14:48:19 I see no one.
14:48:20 >> Second.
14:48:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You seconded no one?
14:48:28 (Laughter)
14:48:29 I have a motion to close by Mrs. Capin, second by Mrs.
14:48:32 Montelione on a close vote with Mr. Cohen.
14:48:34 All in favor?
14:48:35 Opposed?
14:48:35 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:48:37 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 65, please?
14:48:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Are we reading this one?
14:48:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second public hearing.
14:48:45 It's a resolution, got to move it.
14:48:47 >> I move 65.
14:48:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion to move 65, seconded by Mrs.
14:48:52 Montelione.
14:48:53 All in favor?
14:48:55 Tampa ayes have it unanimously.
14:48:56 Thank you.
14:48:57 Item 66 was put off to a later date.
14:49:01 Item number 67.
14:49:04 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
14:49:11 Item number 67 on your agenda this afternoon is a special
14:49:14 use 2 request for alcoholic beverage.
14:49:21 Located at 6428 and 6430 North Florida Avenue.
14:49:25 The request before you this afternoon is for small venue
14:49:28 retail package sales, beer wine and liquor, off-premises
14:49:34 consumption only.
14:49:34 This is inside only, 2,229 square feet.
14:49:38 There is 15 parking spaces required, 15.28 spaces required
14:49:47 and 23 spaces being provided.
14:49:50 Actually, 30 spaces.
14:49:52 23 vehicle spaces, two motorcycle spaces, and five bicycle
14:49:56 spaces.
14:49:57 Let me go ahead and show you the property.
14:50:00 >> I'm sorry to interrupt but do you have site plans for the
14:50:03 council or you don't?
14:50:04 >> I do.
14:50:12 Sorry about that.
14:50:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
14:50:34 >> No problem.
14:50:35 We move over, located on Florida Avenue, just south of --
14:50:44 property zoned here in red.
14:50:45 It is commercial intensive district, Seminole Heights.
14:50:57 Here is the front view of the subject property on Florida.
14:51:02 The rear.
14:51:31 Looking north on Florida, and then residential use.
14:51:38 I could pass these around.
14:51:40 That might be helpful since they are so dark.
14:51:45 There are a couple waivers associated with this request this
14:51:51 afternoon.
14:51:51 The first is to reduce the required minimum distance
14:51:54 separation from other alcoholic beverage establishments from
14:51:59 250 feet to 146 feet.
14:52:02 Remember, this is in an urban village so the distance
14:52:05 separation is 250 separation.
14:52:09 Other residential uses, also 250 down to 63 feet.
14:52:17 Those are the only waivers associated with the request
14:52:19 before you.
14:52:20 Therefore, the applicant is requesting special use to allow
14:52:23 for small venue retail package sales, beer wine and liquor
14:52:28 consumption off premises only, consistent with chapter 14
14:52:32 sales hours.
14:52:32 According to the application, the site is currently
14:52:35 developed as an auto repair establishment, 4,717 square feet
14:52:41 gross floor area.
14:52:42 The proposed special use site plan shows a portion of the
14:52:45 existing building demolished and the remainder 1,826 to
14:52:51 continue as auto repair.
14:52:52 A new bidding will be constructed, two story, with the first
14:52:56 floor retail space at 2,229 square feet as indicated to you,
14:53:01 and a second floor with two residential units, so that would
14:53:04 be a storefront, residential type use, two residentials
14:53:10 upstairs.
14:53:10 Therefore the request is for the 2,229 square feet on the
14:53:14 first floor, all interior space.
14:53:17 As I mentioned, site plan shows 23 auto parking spaces, two
14:53:22 motorcycle, and five bicycle, and that AB sales shall not be
14:53:28 located in the parking area.
14:53:30 Access will be from Florida Avenue and LAMBRIGHT street and
14:53:39 in compliance with the Seminole Heights design standard.
14:53:42 Staff is available for any questions.
14:53:43 There are modifications.
14:53:45 You see that.
14:53:46 It's a -- if approved site plan modifications will be
14:53:50 required between first and second reading.
14:53:52 I may go through those four very quickly.
14:53:54 Modify the site data by renumbering 4 through 9 accordingly.
14:54:00 Modify general notes by deleting the strike-through text and
14:54:03 adding the underlined text on number 10.
14:54:06 The roll-out dumpster shall be stored within a 6-foot high
14:54:10 opaque enclosed area.
14:54:12 Number 3, to correct AB sales area from 2230 to 2229.
14:54:19 As follows, in the title, illustrated on the footprint of
14:54:23 the building and the cut-out legal.
14:54:25 And lastly the waivers requested need to be added and that
14:54:29 was the residential use from 250 to 263 and separation from
14:54:33 other AB establishments from 250 to 146.
14:54:38 Staff is available for any questions.
14:54:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions at this time by council
14:54:42 members?
14:54:42 Mrs. Montelione.
14:54:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What is the other AB establishment
14:54:45 within the 250 feet?
14:54:47 Is it in the pictures that you showed us?
14:54:49 I didn't see it.
14:54:53 I see there is residential use within 250 feet that you need
14:55:00 the waiver, but I don't see what the other establishment is.
14:55:02 >> I may have to let Mr. Barnhill to that since it is in
14:55:11 Mrs. Moreda's report and I am just presenting on her behalf.
14:55:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, thank you for stepping in and
14:55:16 filling in.
14:55:17 >> If you will give me a moment F.mr. Barnhill can't I will
14:55:21 be happy to look through the documentation.
14:55:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Sure thing.
14:55:26 >> Thank you.
14:55:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You're welcome.
14:55:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is petitioner here?
14:55:31 >> Greg Barnhill, applicant for the alcoholic beverage.
14:55:41 To answer your question regarding the other establishment,
14:55:49 the parcel in question is the red box, at north street.
14:55:52 The building that has the red at the back of it, that is the
14:56:04 San Carlos tavern.
14:56:05 >> San Carlos Tavern, you said? Is that another liquor
14:56:08 store?
14:56:08 Is that a package --
14:56:13 >> It's an on-site bar, yes.
14:56:17 Inside alcohol.
14:56:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
14:56:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else?
14:56:24 >> Just that if you look at the site plan that was provided
14:56:32 for some clarification, the original portion of the building
14:56:38 is actually designed with the white box so this is the
14:56:44 portion existing.
14:56:45 The left-hand side of this picture, that area will be
14:56:48 demolished, and then it will be increased to 2200 and change
14:56:54 square feet.
14:56:54 So it actually moves forward to Florida, and implies with
14:57:00 the zoning which Seminole Heights is the first neighborhood
14:57:04 that had that implemented and this is the first project that
14:57:07 actually will work within those guidelines.
14:57:13 We are retaining the zoning to the north end of the parcel,
14:57:18 and good neighbor notice sent out, there is one question
14:57:23 regarding parking.
14:57:24 The site plan was forwarded.
14:57:25 And they know that the parking to the rear of the parcel,
14:57:29 and that's a question that was asked.
14:57:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members at this
14:57:35 time?
14:57:35 Anyone in the audience care to speak on file 67, AB 2-14-37?
14:57:43 Please come forward.
14:57:44 >> Land use committee, 1408 Hanna.
14:57:53 I have a letter that I would like to give council from the
14:57:57 neighborhood association.
14:58:00 Mr. Barnhill met with the association board and presented
14:58:03 the plans at the land use committee.
14:58:05 You all know I have been down here talking about hours for
14:58:07 alcohol.
14:58:08 In fact it's going to be till 11:00.
14:58:11 And actually goes with the vision that we have been trying
14:58:16 to promote for our neighborhood.
14:58:19 So I would encourage it.
14:58:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:58:21 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on this item, item
14:58:23 number 67?
14:58:24 AB 2-14-37?
14:58:27 I have a motion to close by Mrs. Montelione.
14:58:29 Second by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with Mrs. Capin.
14:58:32 Further discussion by council, please indicate by saying
14:58:36 aye.
14:58:36 Opposed nay.
14:58:38 Okay.
14:58:38 We go to first reading.
14:58:48 Mr. Cohen?
14:58:50 >> (off microphone).
14:58:54 >> I am not sure how you process modifications for alcohol,
14:59:00 if you do it like you process the modifications for
14:59:02 rezoning.
14:59:03 But if you would please make that as part of your motion for
14:59:06 the modification as I read into the record, I would
14:59:09 appreciate that.
14:59:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Between first and second reading.
14:59:13 >> Yes, sir.
14:59:14 >>HARRY COHEN: All right.
14:59:17 I move an ordinance being presented for first reading
14:59:20 consideration, an ordinance approving a special use permit
14:59:23 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue, package sales
14:59:30 offpremises consumption only and making lawful the sale of
14:59:35 beverages regardless of alcoholic content beer wine and
14:59:37 liquor at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
14:59:40 located at 6428 and 6430 North Florida Avenue, Tampa,
14:59:44 Florida as more particularly described in section 2, that
14:59:48 all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are
14:59:50 repealed, providing an effective date, and adding
14:59:54 modifications as spelled out that will be required to be
15:00:00 made between first and second reading.
15:00:02 >> Second.
15:00:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs.
15:00:06 Montelione.
15:00:07 Further discussion by council members?
15:00:08 All in favor?
15:00:09 Opposed?
15:00:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:00:12 >>THE CLERK: The second reading will be held on January
15:00:14 8th, 2015 at 9:30 a.m.
15:00:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We now move to item number 68.
15:00:24 Item number 68.
15:00:30 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
15:00:32 Item number 68 this afternoon is AB 2-15-01, a special use
15:00:40 request for alcoholic beverage.
15:00:42 It is located at 2310 and 2312 west Waters Avenue.
15:00:46 The current zoning of the property is commercial intensive.
15:00:49 The applicant Bradley music lounge is requesting a special
15:00:56 use for bar and lounge, beer and wine on-premises
15:01:02 consumption only.
15:01:03 The property would contain 1600 square feet indoors.
15:01:07 Parking spaces are 99 and the hours would be Wednesday
15:01:11 through Saturday, 4 p.m. till 1 a.m., and Sunday 2 p.m. to 1
15:01:16 a.m.
15:01:20 There are requested reductions in the minimum distance
15:01:22 separation.
15:01:22 The minimum distance separation for this property is 1,000
15:01:26 feet.
15:01:26 It is requesting reductions from 1,000 to 200 for other
15:01:30 establishments selling alcoholic beverages, 1,000 to 152
15:01:35 seats for residential use, and 1,000 to 978 seats for
15:01:41 institutional use.
15:01:43 It is also a requesting a waiver for access to a local
15:01:47 street.
15:01:47 >> Do you have any site plans?
15:01:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I'm not used to doing these alcoholic
15:02:02 beverages.
15:02:07 Okay.
15:02:10 I will show you the property.
15:02:12 As I mentioned it is located on Waters Avenue.
15:02:15 It is at the southeast corner of waters and Armenia.
15:02:19 There's one property CG and then the CI property we are
15:02:24 speaking of here shown in red.
15:02:27 Thank you.
15:02:31 This is the front view.
15:02:33 It is what we call strip commercial center.
15:02:38 Multi-tenant.
15:02:45 This is the view looking west on Waters Avenue.
15:02:49 The view looking east on Waters Avenue.
15:02:55 Here is looking north on Armenia, apartment complex.
15:02:59 Adjacent use to the south is the famous Kate electric
15:03:05 warehouse.
15:03:05 Then the rear of the shopping center looking toward Gray
15:03:14 Street.
15:03:17 The request before you again is for bar-lounge beer and wine
15:03:23 for consumption on premises.
15:03:24 According to the application the site is developed with a
15:03:26 strip shopping center as I just mentioned, 16,000 square
15:03:30 feet total in the center.
15:03:31 The proposed AB sales area is proposed to be 3 and 4 in
15:03:36 buildings number 2312 totaling 1,600 square feet in floor
15:03:42 area.
15:03:44 The special use indicates it will have an occupant load of
15:03:46 46 persons.
15:03:47 The existing off-street parking area contains 99 spaces and
15:03:51 requires parking for the existing mix of usage indicated on
15:03:54 the site plan at 74.
15:03:56 Therefore, there is adequate parking.
15:03:58 There will be no parking -- no alcoholic beverage sales in
15:04:02 the parking lot, no outside AB sales area and in a amplified
15:04:05 music is proposed.
15:04:10 Land Development Coordination requires the minimum code
15:04:14 requires minimum 1,000-foot separation.
15:04:19 And since this application is requesting waivers from that
15:04:23 1,000 feet, land development did find that request
15:04:25 inconsistent.
15:04:27 Should it be the pleasure of council to approve this
15:04:29 request, there are some modifications.
15:04:32 They need to modify the top center of the site plan and the
15:04:36 description of proposed special use under site data to read
15:04:39 as follows:
15:04:41 Special use 2, alcoholic beverage, sales, bar-lounge, beer
15:04:45 and wine consumption on premises only.
15:04:47 Under the site data they need to delete current use and add
15:04:53 "bar-lounge."
15:04:55 They need to add unit AB sales area.
15:04:58 They need to delete hours of operation.
15:05:03 Under the parking calculations, they need to correct 2310
15:05:08 west waters as unit G, correct the required parking for unit
15:05:13 D to indicate 4.8, correct the required parking for unit D
15:05:16 to indicate 3.2, correct the subtitles to indicate 33.6.
15:05:22 Just a few more here they need to correct the 2312 west
15:05:27 Waters Avenue.
15:05:28 The required unit for parking 2 to be 3.2.
15:05:31 Required unit for 3-4 to be 11.5.
15:05:35 The request to indicate 3.2 and the subtotals to indicate
15:05:40 40.3.
15:05:41 Therefore, the total required parking spaces need to reflect
15:05:44 74.
15:05:46 Transportation planning session also found the request
15:05:51 inconsistent due to the requested waiver for the access to
15:05:53 the local street.
15:05:55 That being said, staff is available for any questions.
15:05:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members at this
15:06:00 time?
15:06:01 Petitioner?
15:06:01 >> Chelsea Patterson on behalf of beer and brown LLC.
15:06:14 I would like three minutes in rebuttal.
15:06:16 >> You have more than that.
15:06:17 You have 15 minutes.
15:06:19 >> Okay.
15:06:25 The proposal as presented to the City Council can be
15:06:28 somewhat skeletal in our case.
15:06:31 If I could paint you a picture of what my client has in
15:06:34 mind.
15:06:35 We are talking about more of an art house coffee shop,
15:06:41 proposed near Armenia and waters.
15:06:43 We start with Starbuck's.
15:06:45 Everybody has a common reference with Starbuck's.
15:06:47 So this establishment would sell baked goods, premade,
15:06:53 premanufactured baked goods.
15:06:55 You have your brownie wedges, you have your cupcakes with
15:06:57 icing, you have your slices of carrot cake, slices of coffee
15:07:01 cake, and of course you would have an array of teas and
15:07:07 coffees.
15:07:12 It's called beer and brownies music lounge.
15:07:26 So the whole point of what is being featured is the music
15:07:35 and why you are at Starbuck's is not only the lighting and
15:07:38 the decor and how the atmosphere seems so vibrant but it's
15:07:41 also because the music.
15:07:43 And in this particular art house type of coffee shop, the
15:07:47 music, we are talking Rosemary Clooney, Ella Fitzgerald.
15:07:56 You have to have miles Davis and you need John Coletrain,
15:08:00 earth wind fire, you need Steely Dan.
15:08:03 You need all these types of things.
15:08:04 And you haven't even spoken to acoustic guitars or anything
15:08:08 like that.
15:08:08 My client believes that it's the tapestry of the different
15:08:12 songs that will be interwoven that makes people want to be
15:08:16 in atmospheres like Starbuck's, but in this situation, this
15:08:19 is more of an after hours Starbuck's, where you go in
15:08:24 Starbuck's and you will see 15-year-olds and 17-year-olds
15:08:28 sitting around with their laptops and their cell phones.
15:08:31 This is not really the sort of place for that.
15:08:33 It's mostly for the kind of place for people that would be
15:08:35 in this room.
15:08:36 You can drink coffee and you can drink tea and express ohs
15:08:40 all day long.
15:08:41 But if you are 35 or 55, it is your prerogative if you like
15:08:45 to have a glass of wine if you would like while you are
15:08:48 talking to your sister or a date or your wife or your
15:08:53 husband.
15:08:53 It's your prerogative.
15:08:54 But it's not a comedy club.
15:08:56 It's not a two drink minimum.
15:08:57 You can come in to beer and brownies music lounge and you
15:09:01 never actually have to buy a glass of wine.
15:09:05 You never actually have to buy a beer.
15:09:08 I know those are concerns that the council would obviously
15:09:10 want to address.
15:09:11 And it also bears mentioning, since it's an art house, you
15:09:16 can imagine three 40-inch television screens.
15:09:20 Now, they will never have any audio on the television
15:09:23 screens.
15:09:24 Remember, the music is the featured thing in this art house.
15:09:27 So the first television screen, it's likely going to have
15:09:30 some black and white film classics.
15:09:32 You might see the multi--you might see something from
15:09:36 citizen CANE or attack of the killer tomatoes.
15:09:40 That's just one monitor.
15:09:41 The second monitor would have different slide shot images
15:09:44 that would spin every five second.
15:09:47 Like photographs around the room and you would have those
15:09:50 sorts of images but you might have an image of the cosmos or
15:09:55 puppies sleeping again or you might see a tiger prancing, or
15:09:59 you might see something like that.
15:10:00 So slide images.
15:10:02 And the third monitor would have on it animation.
15:10:06 Because in and of itself animation has to be drawn and
15:10:10 normally very colorful.
15:10:12 But there's no dance floor.
15:10:13 There's no dancing on the tables.
15:10:15 It's nothing like that.
15:10:16 It's just a place for writers, artists, musicians, people
15:10:21 who really care about cinematographer, people who want to
15:10:25 talk about those kind of things to be here.
15:10:28 Now, the hours of operation.
15:10:30 The hours of operation will actually be Monday and Tuesday
15:10:34 closed.
15:10:35 Wednesday and Thursday, open from 4 p.m. to 10 p.m.
15:10:39 Friday and Saturday open from 4 to 11.
15:10:42 And Sunday from 2 to 7.
15:10:45 Now, the application says till 1 a.m. but that's only
15:10:48 because in discussions with the Land Development
15:10:49 Coordination department, which has been very kind, they have
15:10:55 made it clear, if there was a time when New Year's Eve on a
15:11:00 Thursday or Friday night, and if you had to close at 11,
15:11:03 well, you need to go for the opportunity only to stay open
15:11:07 till 12.
15:11:07 If there were a three day weekend that fell on July 4th.
15:11:10 But my owner would be happy to stipulate to weekends that
15:11:16 they cop stay open till 12 or 1.
15:11:19 It isn't that they have any intention of staying open till
15:11:22 12 or 1.
15:11:23 In fact, they will never be open beyond 11 p.m. because
15:11:27 that's not the kind of place it is.
15:11:29 And Land Development Coordination did suggest when you pay
15:11:32 one application fee, you can always ask for hard liquor.
15:11:36 My clients aren't interested in that kind of thing.
15:11:38 They don't intend to be pouring shots of whiskey.
15:11:41 They are not going to be pouring shots of tequila.
15:11:44 It's not that kind of venue.
15:11:46 It's the kind of venue where Albert Einstein in his old days
15:11:50 according to hi biography would go in to have conversations
15:11:54 about the moon or about electrons.
15:11:55 It's an art house is what it is.
15:11:57 So in closing, I would suggest this.
15:12:03 Armenia and waters is an area that has a lot of barbershops
15:12:06 and tattoo parlors, and that's fine.
15:12:09 But if you want tote go to an authentic INDIE coffee shop
15:12:14 art house you have to go to Councilman Reddick's district,
15:12:17 down to Ybor City or down to Channelside, or go to
15:12:20 Councilman Cohen's district, you have to GOP all the way
15:12:23 down to South Tampa, and that's great.
15:12:25 But there isn't any reason to believe that the people of
15:12:27 district 6 don't have a taste for music or for art.
15:12:30 And it is not going to be a smoky cigar place, although I
15:12:36 like cigars like you do, chair Miranda.
15:12:39 I love cigars.
15:12:40 But this won't be a cigar place.
15:12:41 It is just a very sophisticated, high-end adult environment
15:12:50 where you talk.
15:12:54 You know, I was trying to be prepared so I want to be
15:13:05 prepared.
15:13:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I apologize, I stepped all over Mrs. Capin.
15:13:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What is your name again?
15:13:12 Mr. Patterson, you are representing petitioner?
15:13:14 >> Yes, ma'am.
15:13:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have been on council five years.
15:13:18 That was the most impressive 15-minute marketing promotion I
15:13:22 have heard.
15:13:25 It was -- it really was impressive.
15:13:30 And you are talking about a beer and wine and the hours and
15:13:34 the rest of it.
15:13:35 And when you talk about all the art houses, there are all
15:13:38 over my district, which is the entire city.
15:13:44 (Laughter)
15:13:44 But anyway, it was an impressive marketing promotion.
15:13:48 You did a great job.
15:13:50 I just want to let you know that.
15:13:51 Thank you.
15:13:52 >> Thank you, Councilwoman.
15:13:53 >> What brand of cigars does the chairman smoke?
15:13:56 >> I saw you walk past it and like smell it and keep going.
15:14:04 (Laughter).
15:14:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
15:14:13 Are you compete completed with your presentation?
15:14:15 >> Yes, sir.
15:14:16 Here to answer any questions.
15:14:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have one question of staff.
15:14:19 And you did a great job.
15:14:21 And I think in the future you doing this more often.
15:14:25 Mrs. Feeley, the access to the local street, they already
15:14:30 have access to the local street, correct?
15:14:32 I mean, it's not a new --
15:14:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.
15:14:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's what I wanted to find out.
15:14:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience to speak on number
15:14:44 68?
15:14:45 AB 2-15-01?
15:14:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, earlier this afternoon there
15:14:50 was a woman who approached the clerk and did ask that a
15:14:53 petition be submitted to council, and it appears -- and I
15:14:56 don't want to propose, but the address on the petition,
15:15:00 which I can't make out, I assume they are all residents of
15:15:03 Bolero lakes apartment, because this woman whose card she
15:15:09 gave, her name is Gladys MICO, the property manager.
15:15:19 >> Petition in support or in opposition?
15:15:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it's in open situation.
15:15:25 >> Yes, it says opposed to this application, AB 2-15-01.
15:15:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And she apologized for not being able to
15:15:33 stay for the hearings this afternoon.
15:15:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Feeley, or Mrs. Moreda, now that
15:15:53 you are here.
15:15:54 She's back.
15:15:55 You're off the hook, Abbye.
15:16:03 On the map, the aerial map, the two apparently apartment
15:16:17 complexes -- and the overhead is not very good.
15:16:20 There you go.
15:16:23 Are the residential where the waivers are being requested?
15:16:27 >> They are within 250 feet of the site, yes.
15:16:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do we know in this petition, which one
15:16:37 is BOLERO lakes apartment?
15:16:43 >>GLORIA MOREDA: No, I am not really sure about that.
15:16:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Is there an address?
15:17:03 It's the one that has the brownish -- I can't tell on the
15:17:06 screen there.
15:17:07 The brownish color roof tops, it would appear.
15:17:10 And in the shopping center where the beer and brownies is to
15:17:16 be located, give me maybe an approximate --
15:17:23 >>GLORIA MOREDA: It's approximately right in this area.
15:17:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I appreciate there being an opposition.
15:17:34 With that density of multifamily across the street, the two
15:17:39 apartment complexes, I guess it's interesting that the one
15:17:44 furthest away is in opposition but the one closest hasn't
15:17:48 responded.
15:17:49 That doesn't mean they feel they are for or against it, they
15:17:52 just haven't weighed in.
15:17:54 And I'm sure that manager got the same notice that everybody
15:17:56 else did.
15:18:01 And to me, although I respect the fact that they wanted to
15:18:06 oppose the application, but, I mean, I wouldn't sway my
15:18:15 decision against the waiver, I mean, just because of the
15:18:18 density, you know, how that area is located, very
15:18:21 commercial.
15:18:25 It's too bad they couldn't be here to explain further why
15:18:28 they were in opposition.
15:18:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a remainder.
15:18:32 Two things.
15:18:33 Number one, this is here for first reading so it will be
15:18:35 come back for a second reading at another public hearing.
15:18:38 And which is announced here today.
15:18:42 The other thing is that petitioner as you know generally has
15:18:48 to be considered whether that constitutes competent
15:18:52 substantial evidence for you to base your decision.
15:18:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I wish they were here to say why, then
15:18:58 they might give us competent substantial evidence in support
15:19:01 of the petition.
15:19:02 But that's all.
15:19:07 Like I said, we could pass this on first reading, and if
15:19:10 there's something that comes up we can make a different vote
15:19:15 on the second.
15:19:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience care to speak
15:19:17 on this item 68, file AB-2-15-01, please come forward.
15:19:23 >> Mr. Chair, if I may put a few words with regards to what
15:19:30 council presented me with.
15:19:33 I would say that with regard to some of these general
15:19:36 comments, the Tampa Police Department hasn't found that
15:19:42 there's any criminal issue.
15:19:44 It says children safety.
15:19:46 You know, waters is a four lane road, and there isn't
15:19:48 anything where children should be come a crossover to this
15:19:51 particular shopping mall because there isn't anything over
15:19:55 there than children would be crossing a four lane road to
15:19:59 come over there.
15:20:01 There's a cell phone store.
15:20:02 Throws a barbershop.
15:20:03 But there isn't any -- I mean, you wouldn't believe that
15:20:06 children would be crossing a four lane road unsupervised
15:20:09 anyhow.
15:20:10 As you know, the parking is more than adequate.
15:20:12 And when you put out a sign that simply says this is
15:20:17 proposed use for bar, wine lounge, there's no way of saying
15:20:23 an art house, coffee shop.
15:20:25 Maybe there are concerns it might be that.
15:20:28 But this will always be closed at 11 p.m. except for special
15:20:33 circumstances.
15:20:34 So my clients aren't interested in being out late.
15:20:38 They aren't interested in being open till 12 or anything
15:20:40 like that.
15:20:41 It's just not that kind of place.
15:20:44 It's just an art house.
15:20:45 >> Move to close.
15:20:49 By the two of us.
15:20:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: By the two of you.
15:20:52 Motion to close by Mrs. Capin.
15:20:54 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
15:20:55 All in favor to close?
15:20:57 Opposed?
15:20:57 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:20:58 I'm sorry, I forgot who.
15:21:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Cohen read the last one.
15:21:07 I move an ordinance being presented for first reading
15:21:09 consideration, an ordinance approving a special using permit
15:21:12 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, bar lounge consumption on
15:21:16 premises only and making lawful the sale of beer and wine at
15:21:19 or from that certain lot or plot, tract -- lot or tract of
15:21:24 land located at 2310, 2312 west Waters Avenue Tampa, Florida
15:21:32 as more particularly described in section 2 that all
15:21:34 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed
15:21:38 providing an effective date with changes to the site plan as
15:21:40 identified by staff between first and second reading.
15:21:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion of approval on first reading by
15:21:46 Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
15:21:49 Discussion on the motion?
15:21:51 All in favor? Opposed?
15:21:53 Motion passed unanimously.
15:21:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Reddick being
15:21:57 absent at vote.
15:21:58 And second reading will be held on January 8th, 2015 at
15:22:02 9:30 a.m.
15:22:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
15:22:05 Item number 69.
15:22:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
15:22:09 Item number 69 is also special use 2 application.
15:22:14 Staff is requesting a continuance of this item to January
15:22:18 22nd at 10:30 a.m.
15:22:21 >> So moved.
15:22:21 >> Second.
15:22:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, let me say this.
15:22:26 Anyone in the audience care to speak to the continuation
15:22:28 portion only of item number 69, AB 2-14-26?
15:22:33 I see no one.
15:22:34 I have a motion made, I believe, by Mr. Cohen to hold this
15:22:40 January 22nd, it was, at 10:30 a.m. in the year 2015,
15:22:46 seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
15:22:47 All in favor of that motion?
15:22:50 Opposed?
15:22:51 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:22:52 Item number 70.
15:22:54 >> Victor DiMaio, Independence Parkway.
15:23:03 I requested a 30-day continuance for this particular issue.
15:23:05 However, I am going to be heading to Cuba the second half of
15:23:09 January.
15:23:09 So I prefer to delay this to the first meeting in February
15:23:15 if that's okay.
15:23:15 >> February 5th?
15:23:19 >> Yes.
15:23:20 And we will probably have this thing resolved anyway.
15:23:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to continue to February 5th at 10
15:23:25 a.m.
15:23:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for continuation item
15:23:28 number 70, E 2014-8 chapter 27, DE 1-14-66.
15:23:40 Anyone care to speak to the continuation portion of this
15:23:42 only to February 5th, the 2015, 10:30 a.m.?
15:23:47 I see no one.
15:23:48 Motion by Mr. Cohen.
15:23:49 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
15:23:51 All in favor of the motion?
15:23:52 Opposed?
15:23:52 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:23:54 Thank you very much.
15:23:54 Okay.
15:23:56 A report by council members.
15:23:57 Mrs. Montelione, left to right.
15:23:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have no new business, sir, but wish
15:24:02 everyone a happy holiday season.
15:24:04 Oh, wait.
15:24:06 I saw Mr. Mueller get up.
15:24:08 Before we go to new business.
15:24:09 Don't we want to hear Mr. Suarez's request for staff reports
15:24:15 on Hogan's Beach?
15:24:18 I'll hold my happy holiday.
15:24:25 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
15:24:25 As requested by council, I'm back.
15:24:29 I do want to remind the code enforcement action as reported
15:24:33 by Sal Roger yo-yo has been initiated.
15:24:38 I did meet with Mr. Wright, and municipal prosecutor, and he
15:24:42 did look through the code and could not find any code
15:24:45 provisions that would allow for any type of immediate
15:24:49 enforcement action.
15:24:50 This action will have to follow the normal code enforcement
15:24:53 process.
15:24:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
15:24:56 Mrs. Montelione again.
15:24:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
15:24:59 So back to wishing everyone a happy holiday season.
15:25:02 Please be safe.
15:25:03 Please do not text and drive.
15:25:05 Please do not drink and drive.
15:25:07 So everyone in your family and others may have a happy 2015.
15:25:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
15:25:13 Mr. Cohen.
15:25:13 >>HARRY COHEN: I have no new business but I do want to wish
15:25:18 everyone in the city a happy and healthy new year and we
15:25:20 will see you in January.
15:25:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
15:25:23 Mrs. Capin.
15:25:30 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) present a commendation for
15:25:34 the volleyball team January 29.
15:25:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs -- seconded by
15:25:43 Mrs. Montelione.
15:25:44 All in favor?
15:25:46 Opposed?
15:25:46 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:25:48 Anything else?
15:25:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Happy, happy, happy.
15:25:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
15:25:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Nothing other than happy Hanukkah, to the
15:25:57 end of Hanukkah.
15:25:59 Mr. Cohen and I were talking about when that date is going
15:26:01 to be.
15:26:02 And Merry Christmas to everyone else out there.
15:26:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else?
15:26:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
15:26:07 I would like to tack the opportunity to wish each of you and
15:26:10 your families a very happy holiday season, and this being
15:26:15 the last meeting of the year for City Council, I just want
15:26:17 to thank each of you for the privilege of being able to
15:26:20 serve you.
15:26:21 Thank you.
15:26:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is this a resignation?
15:26:24 What was that?
15:26:26 (Laughter).
15:26:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Have a noise Christmas and happy new
15:26:29 year.
15:26:30 Be careful.
15:26:30 The one you hit may be me.
15:26:33 Anyone in the audience care to speak on any item, all 511 of
15:26:36 you?
15:26:37 Come forward.
15:26:37 I see no one.
15:26:40 Motion to receive and file by Mr. Cohen.
15:26:41 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
15:26:42 All in favor of the motion to receive and file?
15:26:45 The ayes have it unanimously.
15:26:47 Anything else to come before this council?
15:26:49 We stand adjourned.
15:26:56 (Council meeting adjourned.)
15:28:28
DISCLAIMER:
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.