TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, September 3, 2015
9:00 a.m. Session
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>>FRANK REDDICK: Good morning.
09:07:04 We're going to call this City Council meeting to
09:07:07 order.
09:07:07 I'll yield to councilman Mr. Miranda.
09:07:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:07:14 It's my pleasure to introduce Steve Michelini who
09:07:17 will say the prayer this morning.
09:07:19 Please rise for the prayer and remain standing for
09:07:22 the Pledge of Allegiance.
09:07:25 >> Good morning, Council.
09:07:26 Dear Lord, we thank you for this day and we ask
09:07:30 that you bestow your blessings upon the Logan
09:07:34 family for their loss.
09:07:35 We are reminded, Lord, to keep the book of law
09:07:38 ever mindful upon our lips, in our hearts and
09:07:41 meditate upon it day and night so that we will be
09:07:43 careful to do what is right and how it is written.
09:07:46 We then will be prosperous and successful in all
09:07:49 that we do.
09:07:50 Serve him who has been so gracious to us with
09:07:52 faithfulness.
09:07:54 Let courage of the Lord be with us.
09:07:57 We will not be afraid nor discouraged.
09:08:00 We will be strong in our convictions and we know
09:08:03 that you, Lord, are with us.
09:08:04 We ask that your shield of justice be bestowed
09:08:08 upon, protect and guide your public servants,
09:08:10 elected officials, police and fire rescue, armed
09:08:14 forces and teachers.
09:08:15 We recall in your name, Lord, that you are the
09:08:18 greatest teacher of them all and ask that your
09:08:20 blessings upon them -- upon all those be assembled
09:08:24 here and far away.
09:08:26 In your holy name, Lord, amen.
09:08:29 [pledge of Allegiance]
09:08:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Roll call.
09:08:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:08:53 >> Capin?
09:08:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:08:56 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Here.
09:08:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:08:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:08:59 Thank you.
09:09:02 Could we get approval of the agenda?
09:09:08 Motion from Mr. Cohen.
09:09:09 Seconded by Mr. Miranda.
09:09:11 All those in favor of the motion, aye.
09:09:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Before we approve the addendum
09:09:20 to the agenda, I would like to reschedule item
09:09:23 number 2.
09:09:25 I sent a memo late last night.
09:09:28 I apologize if you didn't see it, Mr. Snelling's
09:09:32 report to be delivered at 9 a.m. on
09:09:34 September 17th.
09:09:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:09:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Ms. Montelione.
09:09:40 Seconded by Mr. Miranda.
09:09:42 All in favor, aye.
09:09:43 Motion carries.
09:09:43 September the 10th?
09:09:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, September 17th.
09:09:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
09:09:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would also like to pull items
09:09:52 number 13 and 17 for discussion.
09:09:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Item 13 and 14?
09:09:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: 17.
09:10:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: 17.
09:10:03 >> Second.
09:10:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Ms. Montelione, second
09:10:07 by Mr. Cohen to pull 13 and 17 for discussion.
09:10:13 Pulled.
09:10:13 Motion carried.
09:10:17 >>THE CLERK: You still have the vote on the floor
09:10:20 for approving the agenda and the addendum.
09:10:22 We have not voted on that yet.
09:10:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have a motion for approval.
09:10:30 All those in favor, aye.
09:10:32 Opposed?
09:10:34 All right.
09:10:35 Here's what we're going to do at the very
09:10:40 beginning under public comments.
09:10:43 We're going to take up items 6 through 28, accept
09:10:50 public comments for 6 through 28.
09:10:53 After that, we'll come back to public comments for
09:10:56 any other items on the agenda except those set for
09:11:00 public hearing.
09:11:01 We want to clear up some of the other items on the
09:11:03 agenda so we know a lot of people are speaking on
09:11:06 item number 1.
09:11:08 If you can be patient with us until we get that
09:11:11 done, we'd appreciate it.
09:11:13 At this time, we'll take any public comments on
09:11:18 items 6 through twenty --
09:11:25 >> Since I just pulled 13 and 17, it will take a
09:11:28 while for staff to come to speak on that.
09:11:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
09:11:33 We'll hold it.
09:11:34 Items 6 through 28.
09:11:47 >> I'm Ed Tillou from Sulphur Springs.
09:11:51 How will you handle us?
09:11:53 Just speak about 6 to 28, because I wanted to
09:11:57 speak about something in there.
09:11:59 I wanted to speak about item 10.
09:12:02 10 and 4.
09:12:03 Now, do I just start with 10 and just continue?
09:12:08 I get my three minutes.
09:12:10 Gee, I've lost half of it.
09:12:13 Shouldn't have started.
09:12:15 With respect to item 10, yeah, I hope you pass
09:12:20 that, because I want to right Chick-Fil-A about
09:12:31 taking that across the street which was a good use
09:12:33 of the parking garage.
09:12:35 The thing is, I had to leave before the stormwater
09:12:37 presentation last time to get breakfast.
09:12:41 I haven't had breakfast yet.
09:12:43 One of the reasons is Quizno's went out of
09:12:49 business.
09:12:50 Then Desoto came and then they are out of
09:12:52 business.
09:12:53 There actually is still a place down at Morgan and
09:12:57 Kennedy, Jackson.
09:12:58 Okay.
09:13:00 But the thing is, it's magical thinking at work.
09:13:04 Oh, the food trucks work so well that we're going
09:13:07 to extend them to Ybor City.
09:13:09 But the reality is that a lot of small restaurants
09:13:11 are going out of business around town.
09:13:13 I have to go miles and miles to get my breakfast.
09:13:16 That's why I had to leave last time.
09:13:18 Fortunately, you only spoke about the maintenance
09:13:22 issues.
09:13:22 The use of the word "assessments" was misused
09:13:26 because it's a thing that should go into the
09:13:28 millage, but it doesn't go into the millage.
09:13:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'm going to stop the clock.
09:13:34 The assessment issue is a public hearing, so you
09:13:38 cannot speak on that issue until we open up the
09:13:41 public hearing.
09:13:44 >> To advance -- public hearing when?
09:13:47 Today?
09:13:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Today.
09:13:49 >> Anyway, with respect to item four, I'm very
09:13:55 much in favor of that ferry.
09:13:57 I think Mr. Turanchik will, as he often does, come
09:14:01 in concrete information and proposals on it like
09:14:04 he did yesterday to the county commission about a
09:14:06 drainage issue.
09:14:06 The thing is, the nitwit journalist establishment
09:14:10 of when he ran for Mayor, the nitwit journalist
09:14:14 establishment of Tampa labeled him as a dreamer
09:14:18 which has a bad connotation.
09:14:20 The thing is, the Hart bus stations and the
09:14:24 improvements at College Hill are very concrete
09:14:27 kind of things.
09:14:28 This is no dreaming.
09:14:30 The word to be used is "visionary."
09:14:33 Anyway.
09:14:34 That's item 4.
09:14:35 I have this about drainage that I wanted to go
09:14:41 into last time because that was my specialty.
09:14:44 Stormwater Management is what I worked with with
09:14:46 the state of Maryland, sewer, water, and storm
09:14:49 drain, but I'll pass this along because apparently
09:14:52 that's what there is going to be a hearing about,
09:14:54 you say item 1.
09:14:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
09:14:56 You can speak on the stormwater once we open it up
09:14:59 for a public hearing later on, you can speak on
09:15:02 that issue.
09:15:03 >> Okay.
09:15:03 Thank you.
09:15:05 >> Let me give these eight copies.
09:15:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next.
09:15:12 >> I wanted to put something into the record and I
09:15:14 wanted to speak on stormwater.
09:15:16 Is that not right now?
09:15:19 Later?
09:15:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
09:15:20 Anyone else wishing to speak on items 6 through
09:15:25 28.
09:15:26 Seeing none, we'll go to item number 6, committee
09:15:31 reports.
09:15:32 Mr. Miranda.
09:15:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:15:35 I move resolution item number 6.
09:15:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Miranda.
09:15:40 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:15:41 All in favor of the motion say aye.
09:15:43 Opposed?
09:15:44 Motion carried.
09:15:45 Item number 7, Mr. Maniscalco.
09:15:49 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I move items 7 through 11.
09:15:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Maniscalco,
09:15:54 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:15:55 All in favor, aye.
09:15:56 Those opposed?
09:15:57 Items 12 through 19, public works, Mr. Suarez.
09:16:03 I thought he was still here.
09:16:06 Mr. Maniscalco.
09:16:08 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I move items 12, 14 through
09:16:14 16, then items 18 and 19.
09:16:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have a motion from
09:16:19 Mr. Maniscalco, seconded by Ms. Montelione.
09:16:22 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:16:24 Opposed?
09:16:24 Finance Committee, Mr. Cohen.
09:16:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
09:16:29 I move items 20, 21, 22.
09:16:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Cohen.
09:16:34 Seconded by Ms. Montelione.
09:16:35 All in favor, aye.
09:16:36 Opposed?
09:16:37 Motion carries.
09:16:38 Building, zoning, preservation committee,
09:16:40 Ms. Montelione.
09:16:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 23 through 25,
09:16:43 sir.
09:16:44 >> Second.
09:16:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Got a motion from Ms. Montelione,
09:16:47 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:16:48 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:16:50 Opposed?
09:16:51 Motion carries.
09:16:52 Transportation Committee, Ms. Yolie Capin.
09:16:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move items 26 and 27.
09:16:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Ms. Capin, seconded
09:17:00 by Mr. Miranda.
09:17:01 All in favor of the motion say aye.
09:17:03 Those opposed?
09:17:04 Motion carried.
09:17:04 Item number 28 just for a public hearing to be
09:17:10 set.
09:17:12 >> I move the substitute resolution, sir.
09:17:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Ms. Montelione,
09:17:17 seconded by Mr. Miranda.
09:17:18 All in favor, aye.
09:17:20 Opposed?
09:17:20 Motion carried.
09:17:21 Thank you.
09:17:23 Now we come back to public comments anyone wishing
09:17:30 to speak under public comments on any remaining
09:17:33 items except those set for public hearing, you may
09:17:36 come forward now.
09:17:48 >> Hello.
09:17:48 Jean-Paul Nicophene.
09:17:52 I live at 1701 East Cayuga Street.
09:17:55 I'm here on behalf of Tampa for Justice.
09:17:57 We've been out in the community for the past week
09:18:00 or so being supporters to support what we're
09:18:04 trying to propose today.
09:18:05 People within our neighborhoods, people friendship
09:18:06 we have with, also different religious
09:18:11 organizations and organizations in general.
09:18:13 We have over 500 signatures on this form here.
09:18:16 I'll read to you what it says.
09:18:18 Tampa for Justice rejects Mayor Buckhorn's
09:18:20 decision to establish the civilian review board
09:18:22 that is not independent from the City of Tampa's
09:18:26 police department and does not support subpoena
09:18:28 power.
09:18:28 We urge City Council Chairman Frank Reddick and
09:18:31 his colleagues to establish an independent
09:18:34 civilian review board with subpoena power.
09:18:37 The below signed citizens of Tampa hereby call for
09:18:39 the creation of a civilian review board City of
09:18:43 Tampa Police Department in order to foster
09:18:46 relationships in the community based on mutual
09:18:49 respect and understanding.
09:18:49 The creation of this civilian review board will
09:18:50 ensure that those who are charged with protecting
09:18:53 and serving our community have oversight from the
09:18:55 communities that they serve.
09:18:56 We call for the civilian review board to have the
09:19:00 authority to investigate allegations of police
09:19:02 misconduct and recommendations of appropriate
09:19:04 responses to new policies that impact our
09:19:06 communities.
09:19:07 All we are really asking for is accountability.
09:19:10 What's wrong with that?
09:19:11 Thank you.
09:19:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next person.
09:19:18 >>> Let's just be real.
09:19:19 The review board already been put in place.
09:19:22 The Mayor jumped the gun and decided to do his own
09:19:25 thing.
09:19:25 He didn't give a damn -- excuse my French -- about
09:19:28 what the constituents in this city had to say.
09:19:32 He didn't care about how many times racially
09:19:35 profiled by police.
09:19:36 >> Please state your name.
09:19:36 >> My name is Ali Mohammad.
09:19:38 He didn't care about the cries that we cried
09:19:42 against the Tampa Police Department.
09:19:44 He jumped the gun and decided to do his own thing.
09:19:47 We ask for independent, know what I'm saying?
09:19:51 We ask for representation from ourselves on the
09:19:54 board.
09:19:55 He wants to do his thing and it's just not
09:19:57 accepted.
09:19:57 I object to his plan.
09:19:59 We ask for a board to be put together by us for
09:20:02 us.
09:20:03 We the ones that's having problem with the police
09:20:05 department.
09:20:05 Mayor Bob Buckhorn don't live in East Tampa.
09:20:07 He done stay in West Tampa.
09:20:09 We're going through these daily problems with the
09:20:11 Tampa Police Department.
09:20:12 It's beyond biking while black.
09:20:14 It's a far more outcast of problems dealing with
09:20:17 the Tampa Police Department.
09:20:18 The federal government needs to be on the TPD
09:20:21 headquarters right now overseeing files and other
09:20:24 things about police misconduct, police brutality.
09:20:27 They beat us up.
09:20:29 I got people that call me day in and day and night
09:20:32 about complaints about Tampa Police Department.
09:20:34 It does not stop.
09:20:35 This is a troubled police department.
09:20:37 It been trouble since Bennie Holder left.
09:20:40 This police department been in trouble since
09:20:43 Bennie Holder left.
09:20:44 It's not just the police department.
09:20:45 Like I said, it is the School Board.
09:20:47 The School Board created the problem.
09:20:49 The Tampa Police Department, they took it on.
09:20:52 The Mayor, he don't care about us.
09:20:56 If he did, he would listen to what we say.
09:20:58 A board put together by us for us not by him for
09:21:03 him.
09:21:03 He wants to do what he wants to do.
09:21:06 Time is now.
09:21:07 Time is now to really hear our cry.
09:21:09 We'll go to a higher level.
09:21:11 I'm talking about way farther than Washington,
09:21:13 D.C.
09:21:13 We have to put a picket line all around this
09:21:16 courthouse, City Hall, School Board to get
09:21:18 attention to these buildings that affect them
09:21:21 black lives in Tampa, something will get done.
09:21:24 I'm tired of getting up here crying, expressing my
09:21:27 feelings.
09:21:28 I don't even know how to express them no more
09:21:31 because it's so outrageous against the police
09:21:33 department, you all just don't know our feelings.
09:21:36 It's way more than a feeling of -- I've been a
09:21:41 victim of police brutality myself.
09:21:44 Police had me on the ground, punching my face.
09:21:46 I'm looking like why is this police officer doing
09:21:49 this.
09:21:50 I go to internal affairs, they sweep it under the
09:21:53 rug.
09:21:53 I come to Tampa Park and I can see the same thing,
09:21:56 police jumping on African-Americans just standing
09:21:59 on sidewalks talking.
09:22:00 It can be two people.
09:22:03 They harass them.
09:22:05 They ain't violating the law.
09:22:07 I'm so frustrated and tired of coming here begging
09:22:09 for something that we calling for, not what child
09:22:12 want.
09:22:13 It's what we want.
09:22:14 We are the constituent.
09:22:16 If Mayor Bob Buckhorn want to be the governor of
09:22:19 Florida, he better tighten up.
09:22:21 I know he's listening.
09:22:22 Take this for justice.
09:22:25 Black lives matter.
09:22:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:22:27 Next speaker.
09:22:33 >> Good morning.
09:22:34 My name is Jerry Neeley, reverend Neeley.
09:22:38 Thank you for this time.
09:22:40 The imperative is central, the interest which
09:22:46 serves to protect the common good has reengaged to
09:22:50 bridge the several and various multifaceted vital
09:22:56 interests as determined from our own best
09:23:05 intentioned yet seemingly conflicted methodologies
09:23:10 and outcomes, our processes and our procedures and
09:23:16 their subsequent goals and objectives.
09:23:19 So, may I, in the Canterbury tale tradition,
09:23:26 invite you to this tale.
09:23:32 There was once a king, a general, and an aspiring
09:23:39 layman's priest, a cleric, an assistant to man's
09:23:46 God and God's man.
09:23:48 So he heard the clad from the king first.
09:23:52 I declare and require what is right, correct, and
09:23:59 appropriate.
09:24:00 In response and equal fashion, but with an eager
09:24:11 one-upsmanship.
09:24:13 I only, the general declared, I only give and
09:24:19 follow orders that are right, correct, and
09:24:25 appropriate.
09:24:30 Finally, after pause and reflection and unauthored
09:24:37 meditation he declared only the tale he had heard
09:24:49 once was said the king's kingdom, the general's
09:24:53 army as well as the Baptist church can go backward
09:25:03 almost as fast as it can go forward.
09:25:05 And as he pondered that he thought, how can that
09:25:17 be?
09:25:18 His oversighted insight let him realize that sure
09:25:26 as soon as one discovered that they are going in
09:25:28 the wrong direction, then they can admit the
09:25:34 truth, confess and turn right and do good.
09:25:37 Thank you so much.
09:25:45 >> Good morning.
09:25:46 My name is Jon Dengler.
09:25:47 I live at 908 East Lake Avenue.
09:25:50 Accountability in this city is a much deeper
09:25:53 question than a few bad apples.
09:25:55 The problem in this city has to do with power.
09:25:58 It's been a struggle for Tampa since its
09:26:00 inception.
09:26:01 We have a long history of concentrated wealth
09:26:03 which equals concentrated power with the ability
09:26:05 to buy results and use physical force and violence
09:26:10 to subdue the poor.
09:26:11 It is a question of power.
09:26:12 Who has it?
09:26:13 Who made it that way?
09:26:15 And who is doing anything they can to keep it that
09:26:17 way.
09:26:17 And the police in this city are fruit at the end
09:26:21 of a long chain of command.
09:26:22 The Mayor is just in need of accountability as are
09:26:26 his troops policing our neighborhoods.
09:26:28 You see what the Mayor just did with his
09:26:30 preemptive executive decision demonstrates the
09:26:33 very unilateral abusive power tactics that
09:26:36 characterize the values that manifest themselves
09:26:38 in abusive policing in our neighborhoods.
09:26:41 In fact, just yesterday, 10 squad cars descended
09:26:45 on homeless helping homeless to raid the place and
09:26:49 execute a search warrant for a tax record.
09:26:52 The question whether they are innocent or snot not
09:26:55 relevant to me as the unnecessary demonstration of
09:26:59 force and intimidation tactics used at the place
09:27:02 run by the guy who just sued the city, forcing
09:27:05 your hand to repeal the panhandling legislation
09:27:08 rather than defending it as constitutional.
09:27:10 Our police need accountability, yes.
09:27:13 But that accountability needs to be independent
09:27:15 and have the authority to follow the leads right
09:27:17 up that chain of command.
09:27:19 We need to take decisive legislative action so
09:27:22 that the few with concentrated wealth and power in
09:27:25 Tampa do not further enshrine their privilege in
09:27:29 policy.
09:27:29 In a democracy, power is supposed to be in the
09:27:31 hands of the people, but when the people of Tampa
09:27:34 organize to ask for accountability for forces that
09:27:37 seem to only act on behalf of the wealthy and
09:27:39 terrorize poor communities, what did we see?
09:27:42 Mr. Big shot power and himself making executive
09:27:45 decisions that mock the demands of the people and
09:27:47 was meant to put you, City Council, in your place.
09:27:50 Is that how power is supposed to work in our city?
09:27:53 Power has to be guided by conscience.
09:27:59 We cannot abide a strong Mayor with weak
09:28:02 character.
09:28:02 So we're here today putting the whole city on
09:28:05 notice.
09:28:05 The people of Tampa are united to take power back
09:28:08 from those that are abusing it, and we demand
09:28:11 justice.
09:28:11 Holding police accountable is just the start.
09:28:16 Attorneys are in here debating about the charter
09:28:18 and who actually has power to do what.
09:28:22 You can continue to have the argument but we'll
09:28:26 organize and demonstrate to you who has power in
09:28:28 democracy.
09:28:29 The people of Tampa, and we demand justice.
09:28:34 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:28:40 >> Good morning, members of City Council.
09:28:42 How are you doing?
09:28:43 My name is Idris Farrukh Muhummad.
09:28:47 I am the co-chair for the Tampa local organizing
09:28:51 committee for the mobilizing and organizing of the
09:28:55 20th anniversary of the million man march.
09:28:58 My concern and my address to you is to ask, first,
09:29:03 do we have your mental, emotional, and
09:29:06 intellectual attention?
09:29:09 Are you present here now while we address you?
09:29:12 Is your focus concentrated on the words of
09:29:15 individuals who advocate to you to use your moral
09:29:18 compass, to use your principles and your standards
09:29:21 that was given to you by your mothers, your
09:29:24 fathers, your sisters, your uncles, your brothers,
09:29:27 your pastors, your fathers, your rabbis to say to
09:29:31 yourself at this moment in time, will we elect to
09:29:34 rise up on the side of time to be on time at an
09:29:37 event that has implications that will be in effect
09:29:40 long after you have given up your seats on this
09:29:43 board, long after you retire into the convenience
09:29:45 of your life in retirement there will yet still be
09:29:49 the problem and the question you ask yourself,
09:29:51 were we better than those before us?
09:29:53 Were we courageous enough as men and women to
09:29:57 stand in a moment and an hour where consequence of
09:29:59 an agenda of time, which has caused many nations
09:30:03 before to implode on one another, will we stand in
09:30:06 the face yet being educated, yet having masters
09:30:08 and doctorate degrees in the various disciplines?
09:30:10 Will you not call and summon upon yourselves the
09:30:15 will to stand as men and women on the side of
09:30:17 those who wish to stand with you?
09:30:19 I have no desire to entertain the traditional
09:30:22 circus of the politics and agendas.
09:30:24 I'm asking for a time-out for you to take a
09:30:27 time-out in that game and look at the realities
09:30:30 around you that will be here.
09:30:32 The players are different, but the game is the
09:30:34 same.
09:30:35 Won't you change the game?
09:30:37 Won't you add up to the circumstances that are
09:30:39 prevailing your communities and listen to the
09:30:41 address of the people who are asking you to stand
09:30:43 as men and women on the principles and values that
09:30:46 your mothers and fathers and uncles and aunts and
09:30:51 the people who guided you, your mentors
09:30:54 embellished you, ordained you, became a princess
09:30:57 of whatever moral code you saw.
09:31:00 The question you have to ask yourself, would that
09:31:01 person be proud of you in this moment if you did
09:31:04 not stand boldly and say, no, Mr. Buckhorn, we
09:31:09 reject your strategy.
09:31:10 No, Mr. Buckhorn, we need transparency because
09:31:14 transparency is the foundation of trust, and trust
09:31:17 yields mutual understanding to work together.
09:31:20 I am not here against one or the other.
09:31:23 I'm asking you to be here for us, to stand at this
09:31:26 moment in time to make a decision based upon your
09:31:29 moral compass that guide the direction of the city
09:31:32 that is in bad situations.
09:31:35 You have the chance and the time.
09:31:36 The question is, men and women, will you take it?
09:31:39 Good day.
09:31:42 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:31:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next.
09:31:46 >> Hello.
09:31:47 I'm Terre Tulsiak.
09:31:49 I live in south Tampa in the area of the
09:31:55 privileged that have plenty of police presence,
09:31:58 but it's not in the same way.
09:32:00 I found out that Mayor Buckhorn had a closed press
09:32:08 conference when I showed up to City Hall the other
09:32:13 day on Friday, and then apparently he took off for
09:32:17 Ireland to try and get more business, more people
09:32:21 in Tampa instead of taking care of the ones that
09:32:24 are already here.
09:32:25 The people that live in the overpoliced areas are
09:32:29 correct.
09:32:31 They are treated differently.
09:32:33 I see how they're treated, and I see how I'm
09:32:37 treated when I get pulled over and I'm let go
09:32:42 because it comes from a place of fear, I have to
09:32:46 believe, with the police.
09:32:47 When they shoot somebody eight times, that's not
09:32:51 being in control.
09:32:52 It's being afraid.
09:32:54 And I understand that but we need to have a
09:32:58 conversation about what's going to solve these
09:33:00 problems instead of just reacting to them.
09:33:02 I have a few ideas about what we should do, but
09:33:07 that's not for now.
09:33:09 It's that there needs to be accountability and
09:33:15 representation of the people that elected you all.
09:33:20 Thank you.
09:33:21 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:33:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:33:23 Next speaker.
09:33:26 >> Hi.
09:33:27 My name is Chynah McFadden.
09:33:29 I live at 907 East 22nd Avenue.
09:33:32 I don't have a huge speech prepared.
09:33:36 I really just wanted to reflect a little bit on
09:33:39 what Mayor Buckhorn is trying to mandate for a
09:33:42 review board, our demand for a review board.
09:33:44 I go into my neighborhood, I'm not afraid of any
09:33:49 of the people that I know on my street or my
09:33:51 block.
09:33:51 I know that my neighborhood is seen as a place
09:33:53 that's like bad territory or it's considered a bad
09:33:56 neighborhood.
09:33:57 I come off of campus at USF and go into a place
09:34:00 like suitcase city, and I know how people on
09:34:02 campus feel about those places.
09:34:04 They have this idea.
09:34:05 They have this stereotype that the people there
09:34:07 are bad people.
09:34:07 When I walk around and I see my neighbors, I see
09:34:10 regular people.
09:34:12 They are human beings.
09:34:13 They have dreams, aspirations, and they have
09:34:15 fears.
09:34:16 And I can say that the police department, the
09:34:18 military force that we in the neighborhood, the
09:34:22 occupation that we see in our neighborhood, is a
09:34:25 fear.
09:34:25 I really think that if we want transparency with
09:34:27 the police department, if we want transparency for
09:34:29 the community that what Buckhorn is trying to
09:34:31 establish is not what we're asking for.
09:34:33 We're not asking for 80% of the people he appoints
09:34:36 on the review board.
09:34:37 Like, how are we supposed to know that those
09:34:40 people aren't going to be biased?
09:34:42 How are we supposed to know that we'll have our
09:34:46 issues heard?
09:34:47 When those people are active in our community, we
09:34:49 don't know what they look like.
09:34:51 They don't look like people on my block.
09:34:52 When I sit down and talk to a 16-year-old about
09:34:56 how they feel about police, I mean, I was taught
09:34:59 that police were good people and people we should
09:35:01 aspire to be like.
09:35:02 He's 16.
09:35:03 He sees occupation in his school.
09:35:05 He sees how they treat White students.
09:35:08 He sees how they treat black and brown students
09:35:11 including himself.
09:35:13 He doesn't want anything to do with police
09:35:15 officers.
09:35:16 I think you have to earn respect to get respect.
09:35:18 I look at the police department and I think why do
09:35:20 we need to earn respect, why do they need to earn
09:35:25 respect when they have power.
09:35:26 You can subjugate them and put them in a place
09:35:30 where they don't feel they have a voice or
09:35:33 complain or they are going to be sympathized with.
09:35:35 I also have to say we're not a community.
09:35:37 A black and brown community, we don't need to have
09:35:40 sympathy.
09:35:41 We're not to be pitied.
09:35:42 We come from a long line heritage of people who
09:35:47 are powerful, proud and intelligent.
09:35:49 We need people to respect us, too.
09:35:51 We want independent investigation, we want
09:35:56 subpoena power.
09:35:57 That's all I have to say.
09:35:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:35:59 Next speaker.
09:36:02 >> Hello.
09:36:04 Carissa step.
09:36:05 1501 East Chelsea Street.
09:36:07 I'm here to support again a civilian review board
09:36:13 that is not what Mayor Buckhorn just signed this
09:36:16 past Friday.
09:36:17 What he did this past Friday was deplorable.
09:36:20 It was not on behalf of the community.
09:36:22 It was not on behalf of the people of Tampa.
09:36:25 My experience has been very much like China's and
09:36:28 Terry's right before me.
09:36:30 I grew up in a neighborhood where I looked at the
09:36:32 place and thought safety.
09:36:34 I now live in a neighborhood where I see the
09:36:36 police and I see how it is an occupation and it
09:36:40 promotes fear in the hearts of my neighbors.
09:36:43 I'm here just to speak against that to say that we
09:36:46 need a civilian review board to keep the police
09:36:49 department accountable to their policies and
09:36:51 accountable to how they treat my neighbors and how
09:36:56 they street the homeless in Tampa.
09:36:58 It needs to be independent so that it's not filled
09:37:01 with people that the Mayor appoints that will be
09:37:05 his yes men.
09:37:06 And it needs to be independent, and it needs to
09:37:09 have subpoena power so it can actually do
09:37:13 something on behalf of the community.
09:37:14 I would encourage you all to do what you can,
09:37:17 please, on behalf of us.
09:37:19 Thank you.
09:37:20 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:37:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:37:21 Next speaker.
09:37:24 >> Good morning, Council.
09:37:26 Thank you for holding this hearing.
09:37:27 I have individual copies for each one of you, a
09:37:32 brochure that is based upon --
09:37:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Please state your name for the
09:37:38 record.
09:37:41 >> Reverend Dr. Russell Myer.
09:37:45 5025 Southampton circle in Tampa Palms.
09:37:49 I am the Executive Director of the Florida Council
09:37:51 of churches and the pastor of St. Paul Lutheran
09:37:54 church in Seminole Heights, the oldest Lutheran
09:37:57 church in Tampa from which 11 other congregations
09:38:00 were spawned.
09:38:01 This brochure that you have received is a
09:38:06 summation of full-fledged civilian police review
09:38:13 board that the community has researched with great
09:38:19 depth from a lot of volunteer hours from several
09:38:22 lawyers, and I can tell you that over the past
09:38:26 week, many lawyers in Tampa have written to us and
09:38:34 have taken a completely different approach than
09:38:38 the City Attorney did on your legislative powers
09:38:42 to create a legislative based board with subpoena
09:38:46 power in order to establish something that creates
09:38:53 community trust.
09:38:54 As we move into this new era of the 21st
09:38:57 century, we have to move beyond centers of power
09:39:00 that are at conflict with one another.
09:39:04 Tampa, to be an excellent, great city, has to be a
09:39:08 place where anybody who comes in, wherever they
09:39:10 are on the ladder of socioeconomic progress can
09:39:15 say I know how to participate fully in that city.
09:39:21 I don't have a fear of moving about.
09:39:24 If I have goodwill, good intentions and good
09:39:27 actions, I can step up to the plate.
09:39:30 I will be respected for what I bring to this town,
09:39:33 and I know that there are ways in which I can
09:39:36 fully participate.
09:39:37 And what you are hearing today is a large portion
09:39:42 of the community is saying that simply isn't
09:39:46 available to us.
09:39:46 And one of the pinch points, this isn't the only
09:39:51 one, one of the pinch points is the policy around
09:39:57 policing.
09:39:57 And there will be other pinch points that come up.
09:40:00 What is happening is the community is getting a
09:40:06 consciousness, an awareness.
09:40:09 So the question is, where is your leadership going
09:40:11 to be to help create community goodwill rather
09:40:15 than this antipathy and this opposition?
09:40:20 We don't need power politics.
09:40:22 What we need is love.
09:40:23 The love that has character and the well-being and
09:40:26 respect of every Tampa resident in mind.
09:40:29 Thank you very much.
09:40:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Our next speaker.
09:40:34 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the
09:40:36 Council.
09:40:36 My name is Joyce Hamilton Henry.
09:40:38 I am the director of advocacy for the ACLU of
09:40:41 Florida.
09:40:41 I also live at 1621 palm royals drive.
09:40:45 The ACLU of Florida, we have been very concerned
09:40:51 about the problem of overpolicing in Tampa.
09:40:54 We are concerned about stop, frisk and search.
09:40:58 We have made it very clear that we feel that this
09:41:00 issue should be investigated by the Department of
09:41:02 Justice civil rights division, not the cops
09:41:05 division.
09:41:06 You have heard the problems clearly stated before
09:41:09 and again this morning, and you'll hear it again
09:41:12 repeated by others.
09:41:13 We want a civilian review board that responds to
09:41:18 the needs of the community, that is provided input
09:41:24 from the community.
09:41:25 What has been proposed by the Mayor is an
09:41:27 ineffective model and is a rubber stamp of
09:41:31 existing policies and practices that a community
09:41:35 is saying is problematic.
09:41:36 This is an opportunity for us to address these
09:41:38 problems.
09:41:39 We are calling upon you, our elected officials, to
09:41:42 do the right thing for our community.
09:41:46 We are also, it's important for you to know that
09:41:49 we all want the same thing.
09:41:52 We want transparency, accountability, and we want
09:41:56 improved relationships with the police department
09:41:59 so that we could have a safer community.
09:42:02 Thank you.
09:42:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:42:05 Next speaker.
09:42:08 >> Yes.
09:42:09 My name is Mike Pheneger.
09:42:11 I live at 4219 Hollow Trail Drive.
09:42:16 I'm a retired Army colonel, and I chair the local
09:42:17 chapter of the ACLU.
09:42:18 The Mayor's preemptive strike is disturbing simply
09:42:23 because it lacks the authority to investigate.
09:42:25 It lacks the authority to hear witnesses.
09:42:28 It lacks the authority to subpoena people and
09:42:30 documents to investigate issues of police
09:42:32 misconduct and issues of police policy that affect
09:42:35 the community that has been eloquently described
09:42:39 by a number of speakers here today.
09:42:41 The worst part about it, it does not reflect the
09:42:45 community it is supposed to serve, and it will not
09:42:47 be respected by the community that it's supposed
09:42:50 to serve.
09:42:51 So far, Tampa has been lucky in recent years
09:42:54 because we have avoided a Ferguson moment, but we
09:42:58 have had an Arthur Green moment, and that's
09:43:01 disturbing.
09:43:02 The last time I was here, I quoted one statistic I
09:43:04 think that's really important.
09:43:06 And that is that in 2013, there were 250 black
09:43:11 arrests per 1,000 population.
09:43:14 Black arrests were over 55% of all the arrests TPD
09:43:22 made.
09:43:23 That's a statistic.
09:43:25 These folks are telling what you that actually
09:43:28 means in our community.
09:43:30 Now, the difficulty we run into here is that it's
09:43:33 difficult to reform police agencies from the
09:43:36 inside.
09:43:38 It's difficult to reform them with a review board
09:43:42 that is consecrated by and reports to the Mayor
09:43:44 and doesn't reflect the community it's supposed to
09:43:47 serve.
09:43:48 That's what we actually need.
09:43:51 At the last meeting, Councilman Miranda actually
09:43:54 made a comment about the number of police officers
09:43:57 who unfortunately have been killed recently, and
09:43:59 since then, we've had two more.
09:44:01 But it should interest you that we do not want to
09:44:06 see any policemen harmed or injured or killed on
09:44:10 the job.
09:44:12 We do want to make sure they are accountable for
09:44:15 their own actions when they misbehave and do
09:44:18 things that are wrong.
09:44:19 That happens all the time.
09:44:21 It should interest to you know that even at the
09:44:23 national level we don't very well correct at the
09:44:26 inside.
09:44:26 The FBI doesn't collect statistics on the number
09:44:29 of people who are killed by police annually
09:44:32 because it's optional.
09:44:33 Actually, the number as of yesterday was 799.
09:44:39 Since January 1st.
09:44:41 At the same time, we have had about the same
09:44:45 number of police officers killed on the job and
09:44:48 murdered on the job as we have always had.
09:44:52 The worst thing about the 799 is according to the
09:44:55 Washington post a little earlier in the year,
09:44:57 about 16% of those people were not armed.
09:44:59 And that's disturbing.
09:45:02 So we need an effective instrument to effectively
09:45:05 evaluate what's going on because police agencies
09:45:10 don't police themselves.
09:45:12 They don't correct problems internally.
09:45:14 It needs your help.
09:45:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: We thank you.
09:45:17 >> Thank you.
09:45:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
09:45:20 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:45:21 >> Hello.
09:45:22 How are you doing?
09:45:24 My name is Bleu Rainer.
09:45:25 I live on Hillsborough avenue.
09:45:28 I just want to tell you a little story.
09:45:31 One of my good friends, boyfriend was traveling in
09:45:35 her car.
09:45:36 Knew she had to pay rent the next day but she
09:45:39 ain't pay no attention.
09:45:40 Cop pulled him over.
09:45:42 Pulled him out of the car.
09:45:44 Say he was driving without a license.
09:45:45 Cool.
09:45:46 We understand.
09:45:46 In her glove compartment box which was looked was
09:45:51 $1,432.
09:45:52 So as they took her boyfriend into custody, he had
09:45:56 the car keys.
09:45:57 So they took the car keys, unlocked the glove
09:46:00 compartment box and got the $1,432 out of the
09:46:03 glove compartment box.
09:46:05 Now this friend of mine is homeless.
09:46:07 That was her rent money.
09:46:09 That's all she had to pay her bills, her light
09:46:12 bill and any other bills that she needed to pay.
09:46:15 But that's beside the fact.
09:46:19 I'm black first.
09:46:21 I have to fight for my black fellow people.
09:46:24 I have to fight for my black neighbors.
09:46:26 I have to fight for anybody.
09:46:27 We're standing here today.
09:46:29 We want a good citizens review board.
09:46:30 We want a citizens review board that we can look
09:46:33 straight through.
09:46:34 We want them to be transparent to us like we're
09:46:36 transparent to them.
09:46:37 We want them to be held accountable for their
09:46:40 actions like they are holding us accountable for
09:46:43 their actions.
09:46:44 Now, we all know that was wrong.
09:46:45 We all know that should have asked her or
09:46:49 consulted with her first before taking her money.
09:46:52 Now she's homeless.
09:46:53 I say again that's no good.
09:46:55 My name is Bleu Rainer.
09:46:56 I don't want to be walking down the street with a
09:46:58 hoodie on and bag of skittles.
09:47:00 I'll be the next one to get shot.
09:47:02 I don't want to be giving my brother a cigarette
09:47:04 and the police walk up and say you are selling
09:47:06 Lucys and now I'm in a chokehold.
09:47:10 I don't want these things happen to me or anybody
09:47:13 in the neighborhood.
09:47:14 We don't need a St. Pete model.
09:47:15 It's not working.
09:47:16 It's not working at all.
09:47:17 If it's working, we'll see the results.
09:47:20 We'll see something more of a Miami model, more of
09:47:24 like a Broward County model.
09:47:25 Something that works for the people, not just
09:47:27 Mayor Buckhorn because he doesn't know.
09:47:30 I never even saw this man walking down
09:47:33 Hillsborough avenue.
09:47:34 For him to say he knows what happens -- excuse my
09:47:37 language, he know what happens in my neighborhood,
09:47:40 I can't believe that.
09:47:42 I can't believe that at all.
09:47:43 Just because we may sag our pants a little bit or
09:47:46 turn our hat backwards a little bit, I'll talk
09:47:49 down the street tomorrow and have my pants
09:47:51 sagging.
09:47:51 Guarantee every cop that roll by me will look at
09:47:55 me twice.
09:47:56 Thank you.
09:47:56 My name is Bleu Rainer.
09:47:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
09:48:01 >> I'll give my name and address at the end.
09:48:03 To the audience, I want you all to remember --
09:48:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Excuse me.
09:48:07 You have to state it at the beginning.
09:48:12 >> Michelle Williams, try me if you want to
09:48:16 boulevard.
09:48:16 I'm here this morning on agenda item number 1.
09:48:19 I want the audience to remember this word fast
09:48:21 because I'll represent at the end of my speech.
09:48:25 The black race can no longer afford to be silent.
09:48:28 There comes a time when every politician must put
09:48:32 principle over popularity.
09:48:35 It's a place where its constituents have to be at
09:48:40 the realm of problem solving.
09:48:42 The vast majority of us stood at the very same
09:48:45 podium a little over a month ago voicing concerns
09:48:48 regarding the civilian review board.
09:48:50 The Mayor with his fast self went and put forth
09:48:55 what he thought was going to be handpicked tokens
09:48:59 of the black community to run this review board.
09:49:02 We didn't ask for that.
09:49:03 We asked just as everyone else before me asked
09:49:06 for, we asked for transparency.
09:49:08 I have watched TPD gain access to federal tax
09:49:13 dollars.
09:49:14 All they've done was buy tonka toys to combat this
09:49:19 alleged terrorism that they say is over in East
09:49:22 Tampa and West Tampa and amongst the black
09:49:24 community.
09:49:24 I have yet to see it when the prior chief, chief
09:49:29 Jane castor, said that -- now, I'm just giving you
09:49:33 statistical reports from the FBI that the City of
09:49:35 Tampa had the lowest crime rate.
09:49:38 Why does the black community have all of the
09:49:41 despair?
09:49:43 You keep terrorizing us with illegal ticketing,
09:49:46 racial profiling, police brutality, targeting the
09:49:49 black lives just because you can abuse your power.
09:49:52 Lie on affidavits.
09:49:53 Huddle in the grocery store parking lot.
09:49:56 You gather there to get lives together.
09:49:59 You want to see an uprising, it's coming.
09:50:02 We're about to break every chain that has
09:50:04 oppressed the African-American race here in the
09:50:07 City of Tampa.
09:50:08 See, we're going outside of Tampa now.
09:50:10 We're taking this justice or else October the
09:50:12 10th, 2015.
09:50:13 That's where we're going to be at in Washington,
09:50:16 D.C.
09:50:16 We keep funding TPD with funds, what should be to
09:50:21 fight the war on poverty in this city, to fight
09:50:25 the housing crisis in this city but yet you keep
09:50:27 allowing this military style defense from the
09:50:30 Tampa Police Department to keep blacks scared and
09:50:33 afraid of them.
09:50:34 Is this what the City of Tampa represents?
09:50:36 You all allow Mayor Buckhorn to take something
09:50:40 away from you and that was your power.
09:50:42 That was your power.
09:50:44 You came to our communities, you sat and paraded
09:50:46 in our church.
09:50:47 You know what, I can't just blame Mayor Buckhorn
09:50:50 because I blame the black people.
09:50:52 We let him pimp us.
09:50:54 We cheer leaded and -- we allowed him to come
09:50:59 inside our churches to say we'll get you some
09:51:02 campaign funding and we'll do this.
09:51:04 I'll tell you one thing, don't meet me in
09:51:07 Washington, beat me in Washington.
09:51:08 That's where we are taking the message.
09:51:10 Washington, D.C. October the 10th, justice or
09:51:15 else.
09:51:15 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:51:18 >> Good morning, members of the Council.
09:51:20 My name is Laila Abdelaziz.
09:51:23 I'm the Legislative and Government Affairs
09:51:24 Director at CAIR Florida.
09:51:26 It's not unbeknownst to people that the Muslim
09:51:30 American community faces discrimination with law
09:51:32 enforcement and profiling because of their racial
09:51:34 and ethnic backgrounds primarily with federal
09:51:37 government agencies such as the Department of
09:51:39 Justice, Homeland Security, FBI, CBP.
09:51:44 To combat these issues, the federal government and
09:51:47 Department of Homeland Security have created
09:51:50 community engagement roundtables.
09:51:53 I've been a part of the Homeland Security
09:51:58 community roundtable for years.
09:52:00 I have seen how community dialogue and community
09:52:02 input can help foster trust in a place where there
09:52:05 is no trust.
09:52:06 I have seen how community engagement can lead to
09:52:09 effective policing, to effective policing that
09:52:11 keeps communities safe and allows communities to
09:52:14 allow law enforcement into their communities with
09:52:17 trust.
09:52:17 There are officials in this city that have said
09:52:24 because of rising gun crimes and rising gun
09:52:27 violence they want the community involved, and
09:52:29 they want the community's help.
09:52:31 As a community advocate and a community organizer,
09:52:34 I have seen community power resolve and come to
09:52:38 surface around this issue like I have not seen in
09:52:40 my past six years in Tampa.
09:52:42 The community has stepped up and said this is a
09:52:45 solution that we can get behind, an independent
09:52:48 civilian review board with subpoena power to
09:52:51 foster trust, to create effective policing
09:52:54 policies, and to repair the local trust issues
09:52:59 that communities of color very seriously do have
09:53:03 with our law enforcement officers.
09:53:05 No one is blaming the current city officials for
09:53:07 these problems.
09:53:08 As Bleu just mentioned, there are decades of asset
09:53:11 forfeiture laws, decades of bad policing laws that
09:53:14 have fostered this distrust and that have left
09:53:17 low-income communities feeling hurt and
09:53:20 disadvantaged by police officers and law
09:53:21 enforcement.
09:53:22 But these kinds of issues must be solved on the
09:53:25 local level, and they must be solved with fair
09:53:28 community engagement.
09:53:30 We need an independent civilian review board that
09:53:34 is objective of the police department, objective
09:53:36 of the politics in the city and can create that --
09:53:39 be that conduit for trust for our communities.
09:53:42 Tampa is a very diverse city, and we need to
09:53:45 protect and create a legacy that will welcome the
09:53:48 diversity that we have in this state.
09:53:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:53:51 Next.
09:53:51 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
09:53:57 My name is Dr. Bennie Small.
09:53:58 I'm the president of the local branch of the
09:54:00 NAACP.
09:54:01 My address is 308 East Dr. Martin Luther King
09:54:05 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida.
09:54:06 I'm here to support a citizen review board.
09:54:09 I ask that the City Council consider that we have
09:54:12 more transparent, number one, more accountability,
09:54:16 and take more responsibility.
09:54:17 We at the NAACP get numerous calls each day, each
09:54:21 year from citizens in this community feeling that
09:54:24 they have been unfair treated that the message is
09:54:27 not being heard by the police department as well
09:54:30 as the City Council.
09:54:31 We are asking mainly the NAACP that you take a
09:54:33 look at the review board and make sure that the
09:54:39 representative of the community is involved
09:54:41 whenever you do make a decision as to which way
09:54:44 this should go.
09:54:45 We here, the citizens of the community think that
09:54:49 if we have more transparent and be more involved
09:54:54 in the process itself that it would be better for
09:54:55 the people in this community.
09:54:57 When we go around and travel throughout the
09:54:59 country, we feel that the individuals throughout
09:55:01 this country is looking to Tampa to make sure that
09:55:04 this is going to be a better place.
09:55:05 I know that part of the Chamber of Commerce is
09:55:07 saying that Tampa is the police for individuals to
09:55:10 come.
09:55:10 But how can it be a place when you don't have the
09:55:13 fairness treatment for those individuals here in
09:55:15 the community, especially the Afro-American?
09:55:18 I, therefore, recommend that the citizen review
09:55:22 board be more transparent and include more people
09:55:23 in this community.
09:55:25 Thank you very much.
09:55:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:55:26 Next speaker.
09:55:34 >> Arthur Green the III, son of Arthur Green
09:55:38 Junior, who recently lost his life a year ago in
09:55:42 April, April 14th, due to misconduct by the
09:55:47 police and the Tampa Police Department.
09:55:49 I had a list of things that I wanted to say and
09:55:53 bullet points I wanted to make.
09:55:57 Continuously doing this time after time for this
09:56:00 past year and a half, it begins to feel demeaning
09:56:04 and disrespectful to my family to have to come and
09:56:07 speak to these people to see no results, to see no
09:56:12 type of give from the Mayor, from the police.
09:56:17 We consistently have an insensitiveness towards
09:56:19 our family, and I support this civilian review
09:56:23 board so other families don't have to go through
09:56:25 what we've been going through this past year.
09:56:28 We have not had a response from the courts.
09:56:30 We have not heard from the Mayor.
09:56:32 We have not heard from the Tampa Police
09:56:33 Department.
09:56:34 The only times we have heard from the people have
09:56:36 been lies.
09:56:37 We had to contact and continuously contact -- that
09:56:43 night, I had to go and identify my father dead
09:56:46 inside of a hospital room after being mistreated
09:56:52 by a police officer that thought he was drunk when
09:56:55 he was actually having a medical issue.
09:56:57 He was thrown to the ground, pushed on the ground.
09:57:00 In the midst of being handcuffed, he died right
09:57:02 there on the ground.
09:57:04 10, 15 minutes later, finally taken by the
09:57:07 ambulance to the hospital considered dead at the
09:57:09 scene.
09:57:10 That night, the police officer who mistreated my
09:57:14 father got to go home to his family.
09:57:16 My father didn't get to come home to his family
09:57:18 and yet will not come home to his family.
09:57:21 What does it take?
09:57:23 Does it take for it to happen to one of the police
09:57:25 officers?
09:57:26 Does it take for it to happen to the Mayor?
09:57:28 Does it take for it to happen to one of you all?
09:57:31 I support the review board so it doesn't happen to
09:57:33 the people out here fighting for this.
09:57:35 They should not have to go through the things we
09:57:37 go through or be treated like we've been treated
09:57:40 by the Tampa Police Department and extension of
09:57:43 other families in the country gone through this.
09:57:46 This is plain disrespectful.
09:57:48 I'm getting to the point where I hate coming to
09:57:51 these things and talk about it because I have to
09:57:53 relive the moment continuously, continuously,
09:57:55 continuously.
09:57:56 I don't get to rest.
09:57:57 I don't get to go home and turn on my TV.
09:58:01 This is something I deal with every day.
09:58:03 I don't get the response, I don't get the coolness
09:58:06 to be around police.
09:58:08 My neighborhood is raided, infected.
09:58:10 It's terrorized by police.
09:58:12 I live in Robles Park area on Avon Street.
09:58:15 A few weeks after that, police were pulling people
09:58:18 over in my neighborhood four times a day.
09:58:20 I live on Avon Street, not Dale Mabry.
09:58:23 Why these people continuously treated like this?
09:58:26 Why we continuously treated like this?
09:58:28 This doesn't make any sense.
09:58:30 For you to do this and the Mayor to do this shows
09:58:33 his continuing disrespect to not care for people
09:58:36 in the community.
09:58:36 All he cares about are the people that live next
09:58:39 to him.
09:58:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: We thank you.
09:58:42 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:58:43 Next speaker.
09:58:49 >> Good morning.
09:58:50 My name is Connie Burton, 4220 patsy court.
09:58:54 Much is being said about the charter.
09:59:03 I want to encourage this Council this morning to
09:59:07 take power that is in the charter that says when
09:59:10 the Mayor is not in place, it is the acting
09:59:13 Chairman of this Council that should be in charge.
09:59:18 And if that is so, we need the Chairman this
09:59:23 morning to declare by executive order that he
09:59:27 wants a citizen review board with power.
09:59:30 We want the Chairman, we want this board, we want
09:59:33 you to listen to the people in the direction we
09:59:39 continuously and constantly complain about the
09:59:41 ongoing issues.
09:59:44 What the Mayor has done is exposed himself to a
09:59:50 period of time when African people being
09:59:54 mistreated.
09:59:55 Abuse of the police and the Mayor is saying now
09:59:58 that we can have business as usual.
10:00:00 I'm a community organizer, and all over the world,
10:00:03 the people is making the same outcry, injustice.
10:00:08 It's not just in Tampa, but the Council and the
10:00:12 administrators and the politicians of Tampa has to
10:00:16 seize the time now because we won't be quiet and
10:00:19 we won't go back.
10:00:20 The injustice system is broken.
10:00:23 Law has been removed from every police car to
10:00:28 serve and protect because they serve as a military
10:00:31 occupation in our community that we don't need
10:00:35 them there, we haven't called them, they are
10:00:37 there.
10:00:38 There is no healthy respect from our community
10:00:42 because we don't see transparency.
10:00:45 Yet we go on with these slogans we feel for them.
10:00:50 No.
10:00:50 We need to you feel for all of the citizens.
10:00:53 We are on the move.
10:00:54 I am a community organizer and I could not have
10:00:57 passed out a million flyers in all of the United
10:00:59 States to get people on one accord.
10:01:01 That's where we are at.
10:01:02 We are calling for justice.
10:01:04 We have looked at the arch of injustice and see
10:01:08 that it is broken.
10:01:10 For people to take it personal that we are
10:01:14 demonizing the police, no, that's not what we're
10:01:16 saying.
10:01:17 What we are saying is we need accountability from
10:01:20 all sides.
10:01:21 We need a balance of power from all sides, and we
10:01:24 need for this Council to stand up against this
10:01:26 wannabe, longtime and he won't be the governor of
10:01:30 this great state.
10:01:31 He will not be.
10:01:32 Because his legacy will follow him.
10:01:35 But you have a responsibility to build your own
10:01:40 legacy based on truth.
10:01:41 Thank you.
10:01:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:01:48 >> Hello.
10:01:49 My name is tiger.
10:01:50 I'm 19 years old.
10:01:52 I live in Pasco County.
10:01:53 I am a nursing student and I work full-time taking
10:01:56 care of a five-month-old baby.
10:01:58 I was in a car accident not long ago, and the
10:02:01 policeman that responded was very nice and helpful
10:02:05 to me although I did receive a ticket for the
10:02:07 accident.
10:02:08 This has not been the case for my boyfriend who is
10:02:10 also 19 years old.
10:02:12 Angel has a full-time job as well.
10:02:14 Comes from a hardworking abiding family who moved
10:02:17 here from Puerto Rico.
10:02:19 He was recently pulled over from the Tampa PD for
10:02:21 a case of mistaken identity.
10:02:23 They thought he was a father who had an unpaid
10:02:28 ticket which he did not receive in the mail.
10:02:30 Otherwise he would have paid.
10:02:31 The initial police officer pulled him over, asked
10:02:34 for his license and went back to his cop car.
10:02:37 At that point, two other officers arrived to the
10:02:41 scene and started questioning him, asking him why
10:02:43 he looked nervous, asking him all questions that
10:02:46 were irrelevant to the situation because he was
10:02:48 not the person they were looking for.
10:02:50 My boyfriend is also diabetic and has an insulin
10:02:55 pump.
10:02:56 The alarm on his pump was going off because he ran
10:02:59 out of insulin and he was due for a shot.
10:03:01 The cops made him turn the alarm off and acted as
10:03:09 though they were reaching for something even
10:03:11 though they were the ones who told him to turn it
10:03:13 off.
10:03:13 Because of this, my boyfriend is now scared of the
10:03:16 police and nervous while driving even though he's
10:03:19 never been in trouble and done anything wrong.
10:03:21 This experience makes me fearful for him whenever
10:03:24 he's driving alone.
10:03:25 It makes me feel like I have to drive when we're
10:03:28 going places.
10:03:29 It's because of this experience that I'm afraid
10:03:31 I'll get a call that he is in jail for something
10:03:35 he didn't do, he has died or is in the hospital
10:03:38 for his medical condition.
10:03:39 I strongly support a civilian review board with
10:03:43 subpoena power made up of everyday people from
10:03:46 diverse background who understands the importance
10:03:48 of holding the police accountable so no one
10:03:52 experiences what we have.
10:03:53 Thank you.
10:04:04 >> Hello.
10:04:04 I am Jason James.
10:04:05 My father lives in South Tampa south of Gandy.
10:04:09 I am here to implore you all to enact an
10:04:13 independent citizen review board with the power to
10:04:20 hire, subpoena and independently investigate the
10:04:23 Tampa Police Department.
10:04:24 It is more than -- as Ali said, police brutality.
10:04:36 Abusive overpolicing.
10:04:37 Stop, frisk and illegal search.
10:04:42 Illegal -- house searches.
10:04:48 This Mayor on Friday, you know, tried to usurp
10:04:53 your-all's power.
10:04:54 This Mayor does not care about the black
10:04:57 community.
10:04:58 He only cares about those from Palma Ceia,
10:05:01 Culbreath, Davis island, Bayshore, Harbour Island,
10:05:06 Tampa Palms, all of New Tampa, but East Tampa,
10:05:09 West Tampa, Sulphur Springs, Robles Park, nah, he
10:05:14 don't care about them.
10:05:15 The people from East Tampa, West Tampa, these
10:05:18 areas have been telling you all and the Mayor that
10:05:21 the police are running rampant.
10:05:24 They are militarized running tanks down streets,
10:05:28 breaking down houses for search warrant for $2 of
10:05:32 weed.
10:05:34 Like, for real.
10:05:35 I'm serious.
10:05:36 They are running rampant.
10:05:39 We need to reform the police department, one.
10:05:44 But I am here to support what the Tampa for
10:05:49 justice has put forward, a civilian review board
10:05:52 with teeth.
10:05:52 Power to hire.
10:05:54 Power to independently investigate.
10:05:56 The black community does not trust the police with
10:06:02 cause.
10:06:03 I'm tired of waking up every other day hearing
10:06:08 another black person was shot unarmed by a police
10:06:12 officer, and they almost never get held
10:06:15 accountable for what they do.
10:06:17 I'm tired of seeing my community oppressed by the
10:06:24 systemic White supremacy and forced by the police.
10:06:28 I've heard stories time and again of police
10:06:30 illegally searching people and their homes and
10:06:33 vehicles.
10:06:33 I am tired, and the community is fed up and we're
10:06:38 not taking any more.
10:06:43 >> Good morning, Council.
10:06:44 My name is Bishop Michelle B. Patty.
10:06:47 I live in Brandon, Florida.
10:06:49 However, that do not preclude me from seeing about
10:06:53 what is going on in the City of Tampa because when
10:06:56 I travel to the city, I don't get a pass from the
10:07:01 police officer if I commit a crime.
10:07:03 I'm here out of concern about the Mayor imbalance
10:07:06 of who he will choose to be on this board.
10:07:09 I don't come wasting my time.
10:07:13 I'm asking, do this board have power or does the
10:07:16 Mayor has the absolute power that he has alluded
10:07:19 to in the community?
10:07:20 We also need to have people on this board that is,
10:07:25 has a relationship with the community.
10:07:26 If they are hand picked and they have no
10:07:28 relationship to the community, then the community
10:07:30 will not trust them and the board would just be
10:07:33 that -- a board.
10:07:35 I'm asking that you look at who you're going to
10:07:37 put on the board, that the people, we should not
10:07:41 be able to be on the board because we live in
10:07:44 Brandon or whatever.
10:07:45 It should be people that have a relationship with
10:07:48 the people.
10:07:48 Also in 2015, I'm every day having to explain to
10:07:53 my 12-year-old grandson how this officer who is in
10:07:57 fear of his life and that's something that needs
10:07:59 to be taken out.
10:08:00 You're in fear of your life.
10:08:01 How can you be in fear of your life with an
10:08:04 unarmed person and you shoot this person down 12
10:08:07 times.
10:08:07 I'm having to tell my 12-year-old grandson that if
10:08:10 he is riding on the bicycle and someone pull him
10:08:13 over, keep his hand in the air.
10:08:15 He can't have a good time as an African-American
10:08:19 child.
10:08:20 There is something wrong in America that we are
10:08:22 dealing with these type of issues that we dealt
10:08:25 with in the 1920s.
10:08:26 I'm here asking this board if you don't have the
10:08:29 power, let us know now so we won't waste our time
10:08:33 coming down here to speak.
10:08:35 And the Mayor, I'm very disappointed that he would
10:08:38 once again say this is it.
10:08:40 This is the way it is not to us the taxpayer and
10:08:46 not to the people that we are voters.
10:08:47 You came to our community, you said what you would
10:08:50 do on behalf of the people.
10:08:52 Now the people are here speaking and we want to
10:08:55 see you rise up to the occasion and let the
10:08:57 community know that you stand behind what you
10:09:00 promised us, and that's fairness, equity, and
10:09:03 protection here in the City of Tampa.
10:09:05 Thank you so much.
10:09:14 >> Good morning.
10:09:15 Eugene Harrison, community member.
10:09:17 Over the last year, I have volunteered with SCIU
10:09:20 because I felt like it was time for me to stand
10:09:23 up, time for me to do something.
10:09:25 I'm one of those guys who don't like to say much.
10:09:29 But as I continue to see this happening in my
10:09:31 community, a lot of us sitting around and not
10:09:36 saying anything, today I feel that it is necessary
10:09:39 for me to step up and tell my story as well.
10:09:41 I once was Ybor City and picked up a metal pipe.
10:09:47 I got arrested for carrying a concealed weapon.
10:09:50 I almost had my arm pulled out of the socket.
10:09:53 I was choked.
10:09:55 After that, I had that charge on me for years.
10:10:00 Later when I went to court, they dismissed it, but
10:10:03 every time I still have carrying a concealed
10:10:07 weapon on my record even though I was innocent.
10:10:13 Again, every time I got pulled over, the police
10:10:17 would have their gun ready for me.
10:10:21 Every time they pulled over.
10:10:22 And it was a fear that I have.
10:10:26 As black men, we fear the police.
10:10:30 I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart
10:10:33 out of fear.
10:10:35 I didn't think I would live to be 21.
10:10:37 I didn't think I would live to be 30, because
10:10:40 every time I got pulled over for some odd reason,
10:10:42 your light, your taillight is out, but it was
10:10:47 never out.
10:10:48 You look like someone or every time this continues
10:10:51 to happen over and over and never knowing if that
10:10:56 day I was going to be shot.
10:10:57 I now have a son that I have to prepare him how to
10:11:01 live day to day because I don't know if the
10:11:04 officer is going to shoot my child.
10:11:06 We see this time and time again, and there's no
10:11:09 accountability.
10:11:10 So we know if he's shooting my son, the odds of
10:11:14 something happen is very slim.
10:11:16 I stand here as a concerned parent.
10:11:19 I stand here for the people.
10:11:21 I stand here for every man that was silenced that
10:11:24 don't come out, that don't express their feelings
10:11:29 about what need to happen.
10:11:31 I'm here because I want to see change.
10:11:33 This citizen review board, it sounds like
10:11:35 something amazing, but you've got to make it work.
10:11:39 You've got a make it work for the people.
10:11:41 Once officers know they'll be held accountable for
10:11:46 their actions, things will change.
10:11:48 Please, do your jobs.
10:11:50 Thank you.
10:11:50 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:11:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
10:11:52 Next speaker.
10:11:53 >> Good morning, Council members.
10:11:54 My name is TJ Grimaldi.
10:11:55 I am an attorney here in Tampa.
10:11:59 It's an interesting analogy that somebody used a
10:12:01 $2 marijuana possession.
10:12:03 I represent Patricia Silliman.
10:12:05 She's the mother of the now deceased Jason
10:12:08 Westcott.
10:12:09 Jason Westcott lived in a home in Seminole Heights
10:12:12 and an army of police officers attempted to
10:12:14 execute a search warrant for what turned out to be
10:12:17 two dollars' worth of marijuana in the home.
10:12:19 He was brutally murdered while in the home.
10:12:24 There have been multiple news accounts as what
10:12:27 supposedly occurred, including a large article
10:12:29 that was in the Tampa Bay Times.
10:12:30 The Tampa Bay Times highlighted how the police
10:12:33 officers that were investigating the case took the
10:12:36 words of a confidential informant.
10:12:39 That confidential informant has a rap sheet longer
10:12:42 than I am tall.
10:12:44 They decided to take every word as it was and also
10:12:46 coached him on what he should say and how he
10:12:49 should say it, including according to this person,
10:12:54 manufacturing, a buy did not occur.
10:12:59 Meaning the confidential informant went into the
10:13:01 home to buy an amount of marijuana, $60, by the
10:13:05 way, and there was no marijuana to be found.
10:13:08 But the police officer -- according to this
10:13:10 confidential informant, the police officer told
10:13:11 him, don't worry, we'll take care of that.
10:13:14 They executed a search warrant upon execution of a
10:13:17 search warrant on approximately 700-square-foot
10:13:19 home with a bay window the size of the plaque in
10:13:24 front of me with absolutely no window dressings
10:13:27 could see directly in the home, stormed the home
10:13:29 with an army of S.W.A.T. officers.
10:13:32 As a result of what occurred, after supposedly the
10:13:35 loudest knock in police history according to
10:13:39 multiple police officers' testimony, they raided
10:13:42 the home.
10:13:43 Pulled him off the couch while they are supposedly
10:13:47 screaming police officers, police officers, opened
10:13:48 the door and shot Jason Westcott dead.
10:13:53 This is not a color issue.
10:13:55 This involves all members of this community, and
10:13:57 that's why something along the lines of the
10:13:59 citizen review board is something that can help
10:14:01 these officers be held accountable.
10:14:04 Jason Westcott respected police officers.
10:14:08 I respect police officers.
10:14:09 There are people in this room that respect police
10:14:11 officers.
10:14:12 Unfortunately, there are bad apples and there are
10:14:14 rogue police officers.
10:14:15 And an open citizen review board, not an
10:14:21 appeasement review board that has been passed by
10:14:23 the Mayor, but an open citizen review board with
10:14:25 actual control and actual power to suggest things
10:14:27 and review things would only help those rogue
10:14:32 police officers, and those police officers that
10:14:34 take the law into their own hands, perform their
10:14:37 duties as they are supposed to do.
10:14:40 They are hired to serve and protect.
10:14:42 They need to make sure that they are doing that.
10:14:44 Thank you.
10:14:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:14:48 >> I am Patti Silliman.
10:14:51 Jason Westcott was my son.
10:14:55 I am tired of standing in front of the police
10:14:58 department holding a sign, asking who's going to
10:15:01 hold Tampa police accountable for killing my son.
10:15:05 My son was raised by a police officer.
10:15:09 As soon as this entire incident happened, I knew
10:15:14 it was a lie.
10:15:15 And I brought that out on several different
10:15:18 occasions.
10:15:18 A review board that works is definitely necessary,
10:15:25 and a review board coupled with the body cameras
10:15:29 that I've been advocating for on the police
10:15:33 officers will definitely deter police officers
10:15:38 that make bad decisions from making those bad
10:15:41 decisions.
10:15:41 I think that what I'm hearing in here today by
10:15:49 every single person that comes up here is
10:15:51 accountability.
10:15:52 They want accountability.
10:15:54 I want accountability.
10:15:55 Somebody needs to be held accountable for what
10:15:58 happened to my son, and that's why I am here
10:16:01 today.
10:16:02 Thank you.
10:16:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:16:04 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:16:05 All right.
10:16:05 Next speaker.
10:16:09 >> Hi.
10:16:09 My name is Israel Reyes.
10:16:13 On May 27th of 2014, the Tampa Police Department
10:16:16 raided me and Jason Westcott's home and shot and
10:16:21 killed Jason Westcott right in front of my own
10:16:24 eyes.
10:16:26 I was asleep on the couch as the officers came in
10:16:29 unannounced and threw me onto the ground and
10:16:33 slammed my face onto the concrete floors and
10:16:38 handcuffed me while I sat there and watched them
10:16:44 pull their guns and shoot at Jason Westcott.
10:16:48 I seen all the blood splatter on the bathroom
10:16:51 walls, and I am a victim of police brutality, just
10:16:57 like the people up on the podium before me.
10:16:59 And we need a civilian review board to police the
10:17:04 police because they lied ever since the get-go.
10:17:09 They didn't tell the truth.
10:17:10 The only person who ever came forward and ever
10:17:13 said anything was the confidential informant, the
10:17:18 one who led them to the house in the first place.
10:17:20 As a result, Patti Silliman had to stand outside
10:17:26 the police department holding a question, who will
10:17:29 hold the Tampa Police Department accountable for
10:17:32 killing her son?
10:17:33 That's something no mother should have to go
10:17:35 through.
10:17:35 That's why we are here today so we can have an
10:17:39 independent civilian review board for Tampa.
10:17:42 Thank you.
10:17:45 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:17:49 >> Good morning, City Council, everyone present.
10:17:52 My name is Preston Schofield.
10:17:55 This is my second time before this Council to try
10:17:58 to get you to do a citizens review board, one that
10:18:01 is transparent, accountable and responsible and
10:18:04 one comprised of people like me.
10:18:06 Not a person that has money or political clout in
10:18:12 the city but someone who will say enough is
10:18:14 enough.
10:18:15 When I came before you the last time, I asked that
10:18:17 you would please look at my car being stolen from
10:18:21 me by the Tampa Police Department and now being
10:18:22 driven by a Tampa police officer without any due
10:18:25 process in the court of law.
10:18:27 The 4th amendment of the U.S. Constitution
10:18:28 states -- search and seizures.
10:18:31 I am a victim of that not one time but two times
10:18:34 in the City of Tampa.
10:18:35 January 3, 2014, while I was stopped by an officer
10:18:38 because he said I was driving a car with tinted
10:18:41 windows, which belonged to my brother, who is a
10:18:44 witness, and it was filmed and documented.
10:18:44 They pulled me out of the car, threw me to the
10:18:47 car, handcuffed me, pulled my arms up behind my
10:18:50 back until my shoulder popped.
10:18:52 I had to have left shoulder surgery.
10:18:54 When I went to the police station, to the jail,
10:18:56 they gave me a CRA, which the police write.
10:18:59 When I came and did a report to try to get my car
10:19:01 back, they changed the CRA.
10:19:05 I tried to talk to Chief Jane Castor, Detective
10:19:09 Minello, like I said before, ran me out of the
10:19:13 police station with several officers so I couldn't
10:19:16 make a police report.
10:19:17 So I leave there and go down to U.S. District
10:19:17 Court on Florida and Cass and filed a civil
10:19:21 lawsuit against the Tampa Police Department.
10:19:22 I have it documented.
10:19:23 It's not me making up the story.
10:19:25 This is my shoulder that I'm always going to have
10:19:29 as long as I live with three scars from the Tampa
10:19:32 Police Department.
10:19:32 Not every officer here is crooked or corrupt, but
10:19:35 you have some who think they are above and beyond
10:19:37 the law.
10:19:38 If you have a citizen review board and it's
10:19:40 comprised of people handpicked by the Mayor,
10:19:43 nothing will get done.
10:19:44 You got people in this room that have -- in them
10:19:50 now.
10:19:52 See, America is supposed to be the greatest
10:19:52 country of all time.
10:19:52 I served the 82nd airborne division -- overseas in
10:19:53 every country, some of them you can't name because
10:19:53 my records are sealed.
10:19:54 How can I fight for the constitution but come to
10:19:59 Tampa Florida and can't get the same rights?
10:20:01 Something has to be changed.
10:20:03 I'm asking each and every Council member to stand
10:20:06 up to the Mayor and say, Mayor, enough is enough.
10:20:09 If you got a problem with interpretation of the
10:20:10 law, ask me, I can help you.
10:20:13 I'm not a lawyer but I can read very well.
10:20:15 Mr. Shelby, as the lawyer, you are fighting
10:20:18 against the Mayor's lawyer, if you need help, call
10:20:21 me.
10:20:21 I am the host of the WTMP, The Voice, with my
10:20:25 cohost Michelle Williams in the back there.
10:20:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:20:39 >> Derek Chamblee, homeless network at large.
10:20:44 Google
10:20:46 D-E-R-E-K C-H-A-M-B-L-E-E.
10:20:52 The holy spirit speaks through the prophet Isaiah
10:20:56 in the 33rd chapter.
10:20:57 The Lord is our judge.
10:20:59 The Lord is our lawgiver.
10:21:00 The Lord is our king.
10:21:02 He will save us.
10:21:03 Jesus is king.
10:21:05 I don't remember his name.
10:21:16 He wrote it on a little piece of paper.
10:21:19 He's with the criminal intelligence bureau and
10:21:22 there were three agents after my last speech
10:21:25 trying to coach me on how to speak here.
10:21:28 I want to give you an update on this federal
10:21:33 investigation of Mayor Bob Buckhorn the City
10:21:39 Council, the City of Tampa and Tampa Police
10:21:41 Department.
10:21:42 In April, all when the times broke the story about
10:21:46 the bicyclist that there was possibly racial
10:21:50 profiling of a bicyclist, Mayor Bob Buckhorn and
10:21:55 police chief castor contacted the U.S. Department
10:21:58 of Justice and their investigative arm is the FBI,
10:22:04 the federal bureau of investigation to investigate
10:22:07 their own police department.
10:22:09 And at that time, the police chief, Jane castor
10:22:13 was quoted by the times as saying that their
10:22:16 operation was systematic, surgical, the Mayor said
10:22:20 that if there's racial profiling on the
10:22:24 bicyclists, over 80% of them happen to be
10:22:28 African-American, then, what he say, immoral
10:22:33 quoted by the times.
10:22:34 Illegal and no city department is allowed to do
10:22:37 that.
10:22:37 Oh, but I've spoken with many of the police
10:22:41 officers and all the way up.
10:22:43 They say that the orders are coming from the top.
10:22:49 Oh, Mayor Bob Buckhorn is contacting the U.S.
10:22:52 department of justice to investigate the Tampa
10:22:55 police as if he already doesn't know these things.
10:22:59 Because when he was an aide to Mayor Sandy
10:23:05 Freeman, he crafted this diabolical, systematic
10:23:09 program against the poor and the homeless.
10:23:12 The poor and the homeless come in all colors.
10:23:14 They are White.
10:23:16 They are black.
10:23:17 They are red.
10:23:18 They are yellow.
10:23:19 They are in wheelchairs.
10:23:21 Oh, it's diabolical, you laugh, but they are going
10:23:24 to jail all the time.
10:23:26 I've been in St. Pete for 50 days.
10:23:27 I come back, 7 of our people died on the streets.
10:23:31 They put them all in jail.
10:23:35 They repeal the panhandling thing.
10:23:38 Okay.
10:23:38 So what they have done here with the CIB, the
10:23:42 criminal intelligence bureau, is they are creating
10:23:44 a class of people in America that have no rights.
10:23:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:23:49 >> We're going to expand this federal
10:23:51 investigation to include St. Petersburg, Tampa,
10:23:53 Orlando, Jacksonville.
10:23:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, sir.
10:23:56 Next speaker.
10:23:58 >> Federal middle district of Florida --
10:24:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:24:01 >> Through every county --
10:24:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Remove him.
10:24:10 >> The federal Chief Justice.
10:24:10 >> My name is John Young.
10:24:32 I live in Hillsborough County.
10:24:33 I want to talk about the red light cameras.
10:24:37 Why do we have so many in our neighborhood and not
10:24:39 in my friend's neighborhood.
10:24:42 I have a friend that comes visit me.
10:24:44 Won't come visit me because he gets a red light
10:24:46 ticket.
10:24:47 You can't make a right turn no more.
10:24:50 Why is that, Mr. Reddick?
10:24:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: What's the question?
10:24:53 >> That we have so many red light cameras in our
10:24:55 neighborhood and not across Dale Mabry, we don't
10:24:57 have any.
10:24:58 Davis island don't have any.
10:25:00 We know how to drive like everybody else.
10:25:02 We go to the same driver's license courses.
10:25:06 Why do we have so many red light cameras in our
10:25:08 neighborhood?
10:25:08 158 -- a man sitting behind a desk getting
10:25:11 disability, a lot of money, man.
10:25:13 You should be ashamed of yourself.
10:25:16 I used to put up red lights.
10:25:18 80% of the red lights I installed.
10:25:20 I know about the 10th of the second.
10:25:23 The secret that the city won't tell you all.
10:25:26 We need to stop it.
10:25:28 It hitting me in my pocket now.
10:25:30 I'll tell the secrets of how we can set the light
10:25:33 back a tenth of a second to get 158.
10:25:36 That's $70 million.
10:25:37 I got kids on Hillsborough.
10:25:40 We got potholes where you're getting all the red
10:25:48 light cameras in, we got all the potholes.
10:25:51 I'm not here on the review board.
10:25:56 I want to talk about the red light cameras.
10:26:00 Just said on the news, $70 million you collected
10:26:02 but we got 90% of the potholes.
10:26:05 Go to Palma Ceia, can't find a pothole.
10:26:08 Need to be ashamed of yourself.
10:26:15 You need to be ashamed of yourself.
10:26:18 When you get one, you don't have to come down
10:26:21 here.
10:26:22 I used to work for the city.
10:26:24 You know how that go.
10:26:27 Come on.
10:26:28 Talk to me.
10:26:29 You go to sleep and wake up tomorrow, think about
10:26:32 the little kids getting killed walking to school
10:26:34 that you can't put up a cross light but we can let
10:26:37 kids get killed by a red light.
10:26:39 The kids are not getting killed by people running
10:26:48 the red light.
10:26:49 They are getting killed by people trying to stop
10:26:52 from getting a ticket.
10:26:53 Wake up.
10:26:55 Sleep good, bro.
10:26:56 >> My name is Marquell Cooper.
10:27:03 >> And my name is Aaron Rubell.
10:27:03 >> I'm from 8106 North Marbury Street, Sulphur
10:27:12 Springs.
10:27:13 We support Tampa for Justice, but when I walked in
10:27:16 the room today, I was like kind of nervous to walk
10:27:19 in.
10:27:21 Literally, yesterday, a White boy got shot down
10:27:27 the street.
10:27:28 So I walked down the street and, like, he's on the
10:27:31 ground.
10:27:32 He was saying I want to live.
10:27:34 I want to live.
10:27:37 Nobody was outside.
10:27:38 It was only me.
10:27:39 Thinking about it, they are going to think I shot
10:27:43 him.
10:27:43 I called them.
10:27:44 As soon as they came, he was a White boy.
10:27:46 They came quick.
10:27:48 If he was black, they would have come 40 minutes
10:27:50 later.
10:27:51 Me being me, I want just for everybody, like, we
10:27:55 stop all the violence and stop killing each other.
10:27:58 Thank you.
10:28:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Before you speak, anyone else
10:28:08 going to plan on speaking need to get in line so
10:28:12 we know how many we've got left.
10:28:14 If you plan on speaking, you need to line up or
10:28:17 else we're going to stop with this young lady in
10:28:21 line.
10:28:22 >> There are a whole bunch of folks in the hall
10:28:23 that would like to speak as well.
10:28:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: They need to come in.
10:28:30 >> Sir, can you let the people in the hall come in
10:28:34 because there are a lot of people in the hall who
10:28:35 would like to speak.
10:28:36 I'll go outside in a second and let folks know.
10:28:43 Thank you.
10:28:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Hold on, hold on.
10:28:45 We don't need you to go outside.
10:28:51 What we need are those who want to speak and they
10:28:53 are sitting out there in the hallway, they need to
10:28:56 come in right now or else the young lady standing
10:28:59 at the back of the line will be the last person.
10:29:04 >> Can you let folks know out there?
10:29:07 Thank you, Chairman.
10:29:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
10:29:18 Let's go.
10:29:19 >> Good morning, Council.
10:29:20 Thank you for initiating this robust discussion on
10:29:24 a very important issue here in the City of Tampa
10:29:28 that's been needing to be addressed for quite some
10:29:32 time.
10:29:33 I think it's incredibly important, and you can
10:29:35 tell from the passion in the room and the amount
10:29:37 of people who have come out to discuss this.
10:29:40 Accountability, transparency, respect, these are a
10:29:43 lot of the themes that we're hearing this morning.
10:29:46 I wanted to mention a couple of the points the
10:29:50 Mayor made last Friday during his press conference
10:29:52 because he was talking a lot about these problems
10:29:55 don't exist in Tampa, that these things happen in
10:29:58 other places.
10:29:59 This isn't Ferguson, he said.
10:30:01 This isn't Cleveland.
10:30:02 These are members of our community that all live
10:30:04 right here in Tampa.
10:30:05 Jason Westcott lived in my neighborhood.
10:30:10 Arthur Green was pulled over two blocks from my
10:30:12 house.
10:30:13 Andrew Joseph lived here in Tampa.
10:30:16 We do not need another name to add to this list.
10:30:20 I'll tell you, there's a lot of people who have
10:30:23 had issues like this that the media has not
10:30:27 reported on and there are a lot of people that
10:30:29 would be in this room right now if they knew about
10:30:31 City Council hearing this issue this morning or if
10:30:34 they had the opportunity to take work off to be
10:30:37 here to testify.
10:30:38 We're in this community every single day, in
10:30:40 people's houses, talking to them at their jobs, on
10:30:44 the street, this is a major issue of concern.
10:30:46 This is not about an ax to grind -- maybe it is
10:30:50 for a couple -- but this is really about creating
10:30:52 a healthy, mutual respectful relationship in the
10:30:55 community, and we want to work with the City
10:30:58 Council.
10:30:59 We want to work with the Mayor to create something
10:31:03 here that is going to change the dynamic because
10:31:06 this dynamic is incredibly unhealthy.
10:31:08 It cannot continue.
10:31:10 This is an historical moment here.
10:31:13 You can go down on the right side or the wrong
10:31:16 side.
10:31:16 We have seen that the Mayor is preferring to push
10:31:18 this issue under the rug.
10:31:20 Not let the citizens have their say.
10:31:22 What does it really mean when there is a citizen
10:31:24 review board and every member is appointed by him,
10:31:28 except for two.
10:31:30 You shouldn't be very happy as Council members on
10:31:34 that issue in particularly.
10:31:36 It also needs to have teeth.
10:31:38 If it's going to be legitimate and genuine and
10:31:41 actually solve the problems that we're talking
10:31:42 about here, even to begin to address it, it has to
10:31:45 be real.
10:31:46 Let's make it real.
10:31:48 Thank you for your time.
10:31:49 >>FRANK REDDICK: Please state your name for the
10:31:51 record.
10:31:53 >> Kently Benjamin.
10:31:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:31:55 Next speaker.
10:31:59 >> Good morning, Council members.
10:32:00 Christopher Connor for the record.
10:32:04 You know, you don't really believe a lot of these
10:32:08 things until it happens to you personally.
10:32:10 I was pulled over by police officers April of
10:32:14 2014.
10:32:15 Said I had a taillight out.
10:32:17 I said can I get out and look?
10:32:19 No.
10:32:20 Officer says, what is that smell?
10:32:21 I said, I don't smell anything.
10:32:23 Officer says, all right.
10:32:24 When my partner gets here, we'll search your car.
10:32:27 I said, sir, I won't consent.
10:32:29 He said that's fine.
10:32:31 We'll drag you out the window and search anyway.
10:32:35 All I could think of was the two weeks prior when
10:32:38 my good friend Arthur Green lost his father and I
10:32:43 thought wow, what if my mother reads in the
10:32:46 headlines that she lost me.
10:32:49 I realized all officers aren't necessarily good
10:32:51 officers, that a review process should happen.
10:32:54 I firmly believe that if Mayor Buckhorn cared
10:32:57 enough, we would already have a top-down review of
10:33:00 every single officer in the police department when
10:33:02 he appointed a new police chief.
10:33:05 In running an agency, Chief Ward should be doing a
10:33:09 top-down review.
10:33:11 Unfortunately, here we are today with the citizens
10:33:13 asking we'll review it if that's the case.
10:33:17 We have to review it after the fact.
10:33:19 The citizen review board will be reactive.
10:33:21 They hear cases, corrupt cases and have to deal
10:33:25 with it.
10:33:25 What I'm asking you as a Council is give it teeth.
10:33:28 Each of you should have your own appointments.
10:33:30 This citizen review board should have subpoena
10:33:33 power.
10:33:33 It should have power to regulate the agency that
10:33:36 our Mayor doesn't seem to want to regulate that
10:33:39 our police chief is failing to regulate.
10:33:41 Two explanations, either willful ignorance or
10:33:45 complicitness, and it can't be both.
10:33:48 I'm asking as a Council, pass a citizen review
10:33:52 board with teeth to deal with the unethical and
10:33:55 corrupt practices.
10:33:55 We're going on two police chiefs now that have
10:33:58 failed to do this and now we are an embarrassment
10:34:01 before the whole country because the federal
10:34:02 government breaks the story on us that we have
10:34:05 racial profiling.
10:34:06 That's nothing new to anybody who has been born
10:34:08 and raised here, especially from West Tampa or
10:34:10 East Tampa.
10:34:10 If you cross Kennedy, maybe you might not feel
10:34:13 that as much.
10:34:14 But I guarantee you, if you don't have the
10:34:17 complexion for the protection if you live on
10:34:20 harbor island, you will.
10:34:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:34:26 >> Good afternoon.
10:34:27 My name is Daniel ROBLES.
10:34:30 I live near Seminole Heights.
10:34:32 I'm here in reference to my best friend Jason
10:34:34 Westcott who was killed on May 27th, 2014.
10:34:37 I want to bring up the question rather than
10:34:40 investigating everything that happened from when
10:34:42 he went into the house, the Tampa Police
10:34:44 Department raiding, I want to know what led up
10:34:48 into that.
10:34:50 Why isn't it being investigated -- why is it only
10:34:54 being investigated from the point they entered the
10:34:57 house and everything from way past before that the
10:34:59 seven months prior to when he called the police
10:35:02 department for his life.
10:35:03 He was afraid of his life because people said they
10:35:08 would come in, break in his house, tie him up,
10:35:11 kill him, take husband dog, TVs and other stuff.
10:35:14 Where was the Tampa Police Department then?
10:35:15 They were the ones who told him if anybody were to
10:35:18 come to the door to shoot to kill no matter his
10:35:22 mother, dog, regardless.
10:35:23 I know Jason Westcott, being raised by Patti
10:35:26 Silliman and a police officer at home, he would
10:35:29 have never raised a gun.
10:35:31 My question today is, who is going to be
10:35:33 accountable for my best friend?
10:35:36 Who will put Patti Silliman to rest?
10:35:38 This is ridiculous.
10:35:39 Every single day, there is someone else being
10:35:42 charged of a crime that they don't do.
10:35:44 People being pulled over.
10:35:46 They are scared just to see the police lights in
10:35:48 their rearview mirror because they don't want to
10:35:51 get shot.
10:35:52 This is ridiculous.
10:35:53 You guys here today, I understand you sit here and
10:35:55 listen to all of us but I don't think you guys are
10:35:58 taking anything we say into account.
10:36:01 If so, if this is any one of your family members
10:36:04 up here, I guarantee things would have been
10:36:07 changed from day one.
10:36:08 That's all I have to say.
10:36:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:36:13 >> Sarah Marshall, 307 East Francis Avenue.
10:36:17 I think the point has been driven home that we
10:36:21 want an independent civilian review board with
10:36:25 subpoena power.
10:36:26 We don't want the crumbs.
10:36:29 We don't want to be appeased and patted on the
10:36:32 head with what the Mayor has preemptively
10:36:35 appointed.
10:36:36 The police tell us, if you're not doing anything
10:36:39 wrong, what's the problem, why can't we take a
10:36:47 look?
10:36:47 We're asking that of them.
10:36:50 If you're not doing anything wrong, what's the
10:36:52 problem?
10:36:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: Next speaker.
10:36:59 >> Good morning.
10:37:00 Reverend Bernice Powell Jackson.
10:37:02 I'm here today as pastor of First United Church of
10:37:05 Tampa.
10:37:06 And I was standing outside for almost an hour,
10:37:09 really, listening to all of the testimony.
10:37:13 This is an amazing, amazing cross section of
10:37:16 citizens of this city, young and old, black and
10:37:20 White, just amazing cross section of people
10:37:26 sharing with you their stories.
10:37:29 And I think what their stories are telling all of
10:37:31 us, the stories of mothers who have lost sons, of
10:37:34 sons who have lost fathers, of fiancés who were
10:37:38 afraid of losing their loved one, of people
10:37:42 themselves who have been victims, police
10:37:45 harassment or brutality.
10:37:47 And we all know that it happens.
10:37:49 We also know that the majority of police officers
10:37:53 are not bad, but what I hear loud and clear across
10:37:58 this city and I think what many people are hearing
10:38:01 is the need for an independent civilian review
10:38:07 board with subpoena power that really has the
10:38:10 community input.
10:38:13 What we have heard so far does not include that.
10:38:17 So I think the City of Tampa is at a moment in
10:38:21 time where it can choose which way it wants to go
10:38:27 and you are in that position once again of trying
10:38:30 to figure out what is -- how you can live out the
10:38:38 authority that is given to you, and how you can
10:38:41 really represent all of the citizens of our city.
10:38:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:38:47 Let me make this known again because I see
10:38:50 additional people have got in line.
10:38:52 I'll state this for the last time, if you plan to
10:38:57 speak and you have not spoken, you need to get up
10:39:00 there now or the gentleman in line now will be the
10:39:03 last person.
10:39:04 We're not going to sit here and let people keep
10:39:10 adding on to the line.
10:39:12 If you need to speak, stand in line now, if you
10:39:15 haven't spoken already.
10:39:16 Before you speak, we want to make sure there's no
10:39:56 one else out there.
10:40:37 >> My name Romy Russman.
10:40:43 I live off of 24th Avenue off of Nebraska.
10:40:46 I'm here to give a face to -- I know we hear a lot
10:40:54 of black men talking about racial profiling.
10:40:57 Face for black women who have been racial
10:41:02 profiling.
10:41:03 Not every black woman who walks on Nebraska is a
10:41:06 prostitute.
10:41:06 There are so many times I walked -- I grew up in
10:41:12 suburbia America, where I had cops in my school.
10:41:19 They were friendly.
10:41:20 I didn't have any problem with them.
10:41:21 Coming here in the inner City of Tampa choosing to
10:41:25 live in the inner City of Tampa and walking down
10:41:29 my own neighborhood being stopped and being
10:41:32 harassed, not even being spoken to as a human
10:41:38 being, yeah, you're doing your job, fine, yeah.
10:41:41 But I am a human being and would like to be treat
10:41:44 with respect.
10:41:45 That's all I'm asking for.
10:41:46 What does it look like?
10:41:49 I don't know what else, review board where I would
10:41:53 be able to express my feelings, express what had
10:41:57 happened to me to a review board that would be
10:42:01 able to do something.
10:42:02 Not just somebody that I can just talk to, but I
10:42:07 need a review board that has power, basically.
10:42:10 That's what I'm trying to say, subpoena that would
10:42:13 be able to look into stories like mine and be able
10:42:18 to do something.
10:42:19 That's where you guys come in and having that
10:42:22 power to do so.
10:42:23 I have so many stories living in the inner city
10:42:29 because I've had fear of cops here.
10:42:33 I didn't grow up with the fear of cops.
10:42:35 They were friendly where I grew up.
10:42:38 But here in Tampa, it is a completely different
10:42:43 situation where I could be -- I like to run around
10:42:47 my neighborhood just for exercise, and when I go
10:42:52 into the whiter areas in Nebraska, I'm afraid
10:42:59 somebody will call the cops on me because I'm a
10:43:03 black person running in a White neighborhood.
10:43:07 Why is that?
10:43:08 That is my neighbor.
10:43:10 It's like three blocks down from me.
10:43:13 I support Tampa for justice for that.
10:43:17 Thank you.
10:43:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:43:19 Next speaker.
10:43:23 >> Hi.
10:43:24 My name is -- Scott.
10:43:27 About you all polices and stuff like that, like
10:43:32 all they do is harass people, saying you-all they
10:43:37 killin'.
10:43:38 I say you all ain't doing nothing about it.
10:43:42 There should have been a change, know what I'm
10:43:45 sayin'?
10:43:46 People talking and wasting their breath for no
10:43:49 reason because -- seem like you all ain't got no
10:43:51 power.
10:43:51 You all don't even --
10:43:53 You know what I'm sayin'?
10:43:55 We don't even call the police when something
10:43:57 happen to us, know what I'm sayin'?
10:43:59 Something going bad, I'm sayin', because we don't
10:44:02 know who.
10:44:02 We know what will happen.
10:44:04 They ain't coming there to protect.
10:44:06 They coming there to shoot or kill the first
10:44:08 person who they feel violent or whatever.
10:44:10 Know what I'm saying?
10:44:12 When we start protecting ourselves -- know what
10:44:14 I'm saying -- then it's a problem.
10:44:16 Know what I'm saying?
10:44:17 Somebody got to change so I'm saying somebody got
10:44:20 to make a move or something.
10:44:21 I'm saying you all sitting around listening
10:44:23 probably ain't taking nothing into consideration.
10:44:25 Know what I'm saying?
10:44:26 I just got to say something because I hope it gets
10:44:29 somewhere.
10:44:29 Know what I'm saying?
10:44:30 Peace.
10:44:36 >> Bob Gibson, 20318 Autumn Fern.
10:44:41 You guys have an opportunity to take the righteous
10:44:44 path.
10:44:44 I think we have listened to testimony.
10:44:48 You have statistics.
10:44:50 You have testimony.
10:44:51 You have firsthand testimony.
10:44:53 About what is happening in this community.
10:44:57 You had the police chief in here last session who,
10:45:00 quite frankly, disrespected their stories and
10:45:05 disrespected you as a board by showing up here
10:45:07 with absolutely nothing.
10:45:08 He choice the -- he chose the wrong path.
10:45:13 Last Friday, the Mayor decided to issue his edict
10:45:17 on what he feels the citizens review board should
10:45:20 look like, and in my opinion, he chose the wrong
10:45:24 path.
10:45:25 You guys have a real opportunity here to listen to
10:45:30 your constituents, to look at the statistics, and
10:45:34 I can tell you from what I have heard, from what I
10:45:36 have seen, there is smoke, and the fire is ready
10:45:40 to take over everything because this cannot
10:45:43 continue.
10:45:44 You are an independently elected board.
10:45:50 You have the authority to do this.
10:45:51 Do not hide behind the legal mumbo jumbo.
10:45:55 You are leaders.
10:45:55 Make a decision and do the right thing.
10:45:58 The legal stuff will sort itself out.
10:46:01 You have the authority to choose to do it, please.
10:46:05 This cannot continue.
10:46:07 Tampa cannot have this type of reputation if it
10:46:10 wants to be the city of the future.
10:46:11 So, please, take what your constituents are
10:46:14 telling you, what the statistics tell you, and do
10:46:16 the right thing.
10:46:18 What we are offering is not unreasonable.
10:46:21 This has been done in other cities.
10:46:24 You can do it.
10:46:27 I ask you to do it for me, for your constituents
10:46:32 and for the future of this city.
10:46:33 Thank you.
10:46:37 >> Hi.
10:46:38 Becky.
10:46:38 16393 -- village drive.
10:46:41 I'm here today not because I've been a victim of
10:46:46 police violence or because my family has, but
10:46:49 because it's the right thing to do.
10:46:50 I work in the community, in the Tampa community,
10:46:53 and it's incredibly integral that we create
10:46:56 something that will hold police accountable.
10:46:59 We also need the people who are on this board to
10:47:03 not be appointed by the Mayor or appointed by, you
10:47:06 know, people from places that live where I live in
10:47:09 New Tampa.
10:47:10 We need to be of the people.
10:47:11 The whole problem with the city and with the Tampa
10:47:14 Police Department right now is that the people who
10:47:16 are policing these neighborhoods are not of this
10:47:19 neighborhood.
10:47:19 They are not from this neighborhood.
10:47:21 So they have no idea what's going on, and they
10:47:24 have no idea that the population of the people
10:47:26 that are there.
10:47:27 So they assume, just as Lester just said, every
10:47:32 person, every woman who is black who is walking
10:47:34 down Nebraska is a street walker or every person
10:47:36 who is black who is walking down the street is
10:47:39 committing a crime.
10:47:40 We need police accountability, and we need for you
10:47:43 all to do the right thing.
10:47:45 Thank you.
10:47:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:47:49 >> Ashley Whitney.
10:47:50 703 East Forest Avenue.
10:47:52 I actually live right in a lot of these
10:47:55 neighborhoods that you're speaking of.
10:47:57 I'm also a community organizer.
10:47:59 By day I drive through the neighborhoods for
10:48:01 several hours.
10:48:02 I see people pulled over for what looks like
10:48:05 nothing or something minimal.
10:48:06 At night when it's dark on my way home, every
10:48:11 single night I see people pulled over and they
10:48:13 never look like me.
10:48:15 That's got to change.
10:48:17 Thank you.
10:48:26 >> Hi.
10:48:27 My name is Trisha Hodge.
10:48:28 1436 Heaven Sent Lane.
10:48:31 And I am a community organizer, and I'm not here
10:48:35 to bash police officers or say all of them are
10:48:40 negative or bad apples, because I've had
10:48:42 interactions with police officers myself, and I
10:48:45 won't sit here and say that they've all been
10:48:48 negative or anything like that.
10:48:49 They all went smoothly.
10:48:51 But I am here to stand on behalf of my community
10:48:55 because I have brothers and sisters who have been
10:48:58 pulled over for things, you know, that they have
10:49:00 not done or that they are innocent, and I've seen
10:49:03 it firsthand.
10:49:04 I used to live in the USF area, and that is an
10:49:07 area where there are a lot of police officers.
10:49:11 There's a lot of -- a lot going on in that area.
10:49:16 I've seen get pulled over just walking down the
10:49:19 street or riding their bike in.
10:49:21 You'll see the police cars aggressively turn from
10:49:24 wherever they are, just turn onto the sidewalk and
10:49:27 stop these people and you've got to wonder, you
10:49:30 know, what is going on.
10:49:32 I think we all as a community, we need to be on
10:49:35 one accord.
10:49:36 Everyone from the community, the children, the
10:49:39 parents, to law officials, everyone together, we
10:49:44 need to be on one accord and make this happen,
10:49:48 because it shouldn't really be this hard to get
10:49:51 something handled that's an issue, and I come here
10:49:54 to support it because I think it needs to be done.
10:49:58 There are a lot of police officers who are
10:50:02 positive for this community and then those --
10:50:05 there are others that, you know, need to kind of
10:50:11 be straightened out.
10:50:13 Like they said, there needs to be reform and I do
10:50:16 support that.
10:50:16 Thank you.
10:50:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:50:17 Next speaker.
10:50:25 >> Good morning.
10:50:25 My name is Ali Shakoor.
10:50:27 I live in Brandon, Florida, 1311 Versant Drive.
10:50:34 I'm here to support the civilian review board.
10:50:36 I started becoming more active in my community.
10:50:39 I've been looking at news reports and talking to
10:50:41 people in my neighborhood, talking to people
10:50:43 around town about what's going on as far as police
10:50:46 harassment.
10:50:46 I've also been a criminal defense attorney here in
10:50:49 Tampa for over 11 years.
10:50:51 I love Tampa, I also as a criminal defense
10:50:54 attorney have encountered clients who have
10:50:56 encountered corruption with police officers.
10:50:59 Clients who have said, no, you can't search my car
10:51:01 and the police are searching the car anyway.
10:51:04 I've had clients say, no, you can't search my
10:51:06 person, you can't search my body, but police
10:51:09 officer search the person anyway.
10:51:10 This is not acceptable.
10:51:12 I'm not here to bash police officers.
10:51:14 There are some wonderful police officers.
10:51:16 I personally experience some wonderful, caring
10:51:19 police officers who do their job.
10:51:21 But the ones who don't do their job, the one who
10:51:25 use their authority to bully people and facilitate
10:51:29 corruption, they must be held accountable.
10:51:31 The people here aren't asking for too much.
10:51:33 They are asking for a civilian review board that
10:51:36 is representative of the community having the
10:51:39 Mayor elect nine out of eleven members.
10:51:42 Vast majority of the members sends the wrong
10:51:46 message.
10:51:46 By not asking the community, by not asking the
10:51:49 community to offer a representative or taking a
10:51:51 representative from the community, it seems like
10:51:53 the City Council that the Mayor is afraid of what
10:51:56 they might find out.
10:51:58 As opposed to when they need to find out.
10:52:02 Mayor Buckhorn, Mayor of all Tampa, not just the
10:52:06 nice areas.
10:52:06 I volunteer the boys and girls club.
10:52:08 I was asking, do you know who the Mayor is?
10:52:11 They had no idea.
10:52:13 They didn't know who Mayor Buckhorn was.
10:52:16 You can make that about ignorance.
10:52:18 You can make it about the fact that he's not in
10:52:20 the community.
10:52:21 He's not walking those streets.
10:52:22 It's not too much to ask.
10:52:27 Again, there is a great amount of excellent police
10:52:32 officers.
10:52:32 There are some flat-out corrupt.
10:52:34 They must be held accountable.
10:52:37 You as elected officials, you have the power to do
10:52:40 something about that.
10:52:41 I'm asking you respectfully to reject the Mayor's
10:52:45 proposal and put together a civilian review board
10:52:48 made up of the people, the communities most
10:52:50 affected by police because it helps everybody.
10:52:52 Thank you for your time.
10:52:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:52:54 All right.
10:52:56 We want to thank everyone who had the opportunity
10:52:58 to come here and speak during the public comment.
10:53:00 What we're going to do is, Ms. Montelione
10:53:06 requested two items to be discussed, 13, 17, then
10:53:09 item 5 and then we'll hear from the police chief.
10:53:12 If staff is here for items 13 and 17.
10:53:17 >> Yes, Ms. Duncan is coming to the podium.
10:53:20 Thank you, Ms. Duncan, for being here.
10:53:29 This is about as last-minute pull of an item we
10:53:34 get.
10:53:35 Item 13, $74,985.09 to be issued to Hillsborough
10:53:45 County for a payment on the parsons Brinckerhoff
10:53:49 contract for go Hillsborough, correct?
10:53:51 >> Actually, the dollars are going to our
10:53:54 consultant parsons Brinckerhoff directly.
10:53:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We have parsons Brinckerhoff
10:54:00 under contract.
10:54:01 This isn't a contribution to the Hillsborough
10:54:02 County contract?
10:54:04 >> Correct.
10:54:04 It's an engagement of professional services with
10:54:06 parsons Brinckerhoff.
10:54:08 However, the work that they are doing is tied in
10:54:10 with the contract that the county does have with
10:54:14 parsons as well.
10:54:15 When it was determined by the policy leadership
10:54:18 group board that there was another series of
10:54:21 meetings, public engagement and project list
10:54:24 development that would be required to the tune of
10:54:26 about 55 more public meetings, the county reached
10:54:30 out to the city and asked if we could make a
10:54:33 contribution for the work that's being done for
10:54:36 the cities.
10:54:37 The services that they are performing for the
10:54:40 city, that is what this work order is covering
10:54:43 with the 74,000 plus dollars in this work order.
10:54:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But it is a separate contract.
10:54:49 >> It is a separate contract.
10:54:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So, how is the dollar amount --
10:54:54 because I've never seen an individual contract be
10:54:57 drawn up for such a specific dollar amount unless
10:55:00 it was construction related and materials were
10:55:03 involved.
10:55:03 It strikes me as odd.
10:55:06 >> There is a breakout in the scope that shows the
10:55:08 man-hours and how that dollar figure was arrived
10:55:12 at.
10:55:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Was this put out for bid by the
10:55:15 city?
10:55:16 >> No, the city has the opportunity through our
10:55:18 procurement regulations that if it's under the
10:55:21 threshold of $100,000, we go through a lesser
10:55:25 process of procuring the consultant.
10:55:27 We don't put it out through advertisement and RFQ,
10:55:31 so we use that standard process --
10:55:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm sorry.
10:55:35 Another 25,000 more or less and we'll be at the
10:55:38 $100,000 mark.
10:55:39 From what I understand, the parsons Brinckerhoff
10:55:42 contract at Hillsborough County is reaching
10:55:44 upwards of three-quarters of a million dollars.
10:55:47 >> Yes, it's actually about 1.3 million as of this
10:55:51 point.
10:55:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was being generous.
10:55:53 I knew that.
10:55:56 1.3 is where they are at now.
10:55:59 >> Yes, correct.
10:56:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What concerns me is the amount
10:56:02 of money this effort is costing.
10:56:04 I have never -- and I've been around the block a
10:56:07 few times -- I have never seen a contract for
10:56:10 public engagement, not even research, not any data
10:56:19 analysis.
10:56:20 There is some analysis of the outreach but the
10:56:22 bulk of the work is public outreach.
10:56:26 I've never seen $1.3 million being spent on such
10:56:30 an effort.
10:56:31 And I think that we have to be -- somebody else
10:56:42 going to speak?
10:56:46 >> [INAUDIBLE]
10:56:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thanks, appreciate that.
10:56:50 So I'm very concerned that we're putting out
10:56:55 seventy four-nine now, and that we're going to --
10:56:58 somebody will come back to the well and ask us for
10:57:01 more.
10:57:01 And we'll get to that $100,000 mark and this
10:57:06 contract will not have been put out to bid.
10:57:08 You know, we could have constructed a road for the
10:57:13 amount of money this outreach is costing.
10:57:18 I want to let you know that I'm keeping an eye
10:57:21 out, and I don't want to see this balloon out of
10:57:24 control, and I would like to see the breakdown of
10:57:27 exactly what they are doing within the city limits
10:57:29 of the City of Tampa for the money that we're
10:57:31 paying.
10:57:32 >> We can certainly do that.
10:57:34 There are 22 meetings that are being held within
10:57:36 the city limits for our citizens, which are a part
10:57:40 of the money that's being spent.
10:57:42 Because of the fact that this go Hillsborough
10:57:45 initiative is going to be before the PLG board in
10:57:49 October for a decision, by November as to whether
10:57:53 or not it will be placed on the referendum,
10:57:59 there's at least a sense that it's coming to that
10:58:02 conclusion and it will not just continue to go on
10:58:04 and on.
10:58:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think we started with that
10:58:07 conclusion.
10:58:07 I think we started with the conclusion that this
10:58:09 will go on the ballot for referendum.
10:58:12 And there is one other thing, because I know my
10:58:15 colleagues want to speak, on the cover sheet for
10:58:17 the item it says half percent sales tax funding as
10:58:23 part of the description.
10:58:24 We started out at 1% and went down to half and it
10:58:28 looks like we're back up to 1.
10:58:30 I would be caution about calling out a number when
10:58:33 it seems to be in flux.
10:58:35 >> Officially, the half cent was the direction
10:58:37 that the PLG board.
10:58:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You just said cent.
10:58:42 I think it's percent.
10:58:43 >> Half percent, excuse me.
10:58:45 The PLG board gave the direction to proceed with
10:58:50 half a percent framework for the information to be
10:58:53 provided to the public, and there was an
10:58:58 administrative decision to provide 1% information
10:59:02 in those meetings as a comparative for the
10:59:04 citizens to see what those two different sets of
10:59:08 dollars would bring in terms of projects.
10:59:11 But we are very sensitive to our procurement
10:59:14 processes in terms of how we are engaging
10:59:17 consultants, and we appreciate your attention to
10:59:19 this and your comments.
10:59:20 We'll make sure that we are not violating any laws
10:59:23 in terms of contract procurement.
10:59:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
10:59:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Suarez.
10:59:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
10:59:29 Let's be straight.
10:59:31 We have to make sure.
10:59:33 Jane are we paying $1.3 million, the city?
10:59:36 >> No.
10:59:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The $900,000 was the original
10:59:39 contract that parsons Brinckerhoff had.
10:59:42 County paid for the full amount, is that correct?
10:59:45 >> Yes, sir.
10:59:45 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Now, when we were at the policy
10:59:48 leadership group, they asked for more money.
10:59:50 I think it may have been in the -- half a million
10:59:53 dollar range.
10:59:54 I can't remember what it was.
10:59:56 >> You're correct, yes.
10:59:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: This is just our portion of the
10:59:59 $500,000, correct?
11:00:00 >> Yes, sir.
11:00:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Is there going to be any more
11:00:03 dollars that will come out for that particular
11:00:05 half a million dollars?
11:00:07 >> Not that we're aware of.
11:00:08 Not that we're planning to contribute.
11:00:10 This is our contribution, and we believe that this
11:00:13 exercise will be completed and the board will make
11:00:16 a decision for the next steps.
11:00:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's why I wanted to talk.
11:00:20 The city is not spending $1.3 million.
11:00:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know that.
11:00:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, no.
11:00:25 I know you know that.
11:00:26 When you throw out the number, a lot of people get
11:00:28 confused.
11:00:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I said very specifically
11:00:32 Hillsborough County is --
11:00:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want to make sure that the 74,000
11:00:35 is the only amount coming out of our pocket.
11:00:38 Secondly, this is the thing I have a problem with,
11:00:40 I don't think we should have done it as a work
11:00:42 order with parsons Brinckerhoff.
11:00:44 It should have been either a memorandum of
11:00:46 understanding between us and the county and have
11:00:48 it as a separate item so we can discuss.
11:00:51 Because the policy leadership group has no binding
11:00:54 power over this Council.
11:00:55 That is the thing that bothered me more than
11:00:57 anything else about this particular issue.
11:01:00 The discussion was that they wanted to have all
11:01:02 the other members put some money in in order to
11:01:06 help defray the cost that they would put forward.
11:01:09 I think that should have been put in a different
11:01:11 way.
11:01:12 I see the way you put it, when you do a work
11:01:15 order, it's usually attached to a specific
11:01:17 contract and this is something a little bit
11:01:20 outside the scope of what we have on the
11:01:22 particular contract.
11:01:23 Is that correct?
11:01:25 >> Well, I'm not sure --
11:01:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We didn't sign up with parsons
11:01:29 Brinckerhoff in order to provide these particular
11:01:32 services.
11:01:32 What you put down here was it was a change order.
11:01:35 This is what it says in our packet.
11:01:37 I'm just saying it may be wrong, but this is what
11:01:40 it said.
11:01:41 Usually with change orders it's already an
11:01:43 executed contract that we have in relation to what
11:01:45 our scope of work is with the City of Tampa with
11:01:47 that particular vendor.
11:01:51 >> My understanding, this is a stand-alone work
11:01:54 order because parsons is already approved through
11:01:58 normal processes as a consultant we can engage --
11:02:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's my point.
11:02:03 The contract is with the county and Brinckerhoff.
11:02:06 We should have made an agreement with the county
11:02:08 directly to provide for that cost.
11:02:11 That's my point.
11:02:12 >> That was looked at, but because of the
11:02:14 logistics of the local funding agreement having to
11:02:18 be created and taken through the board of county
11:02:21 commissioners and City Council and the time line
11:02:24 of these meetings already being started, the
11:02:27 option to contract directly with them, with our
11:02:31 work order process seemed to be the best mechanism
11:02:38 to get the work underway.
11:02:39 That's why that was selected.
11:02:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The only argument I have for you,
11:02:42 the differential is that the entire county
11:02:44 commission sits on that policy leadership group,
11:02:47 not the entire Council.
11:02:48 The only reason I'm there is because I'm the chair
11:02:51 of Hart, not as the representative of the City
11:02:53 Council.
11:02:54 I can't vote in order to have our Council approve
11:02:56 a contract.
11:02:57 So that's a little bit of a backwards thing.
11:03:00 They should have approved it to the county.
11:03:02 We should have had that come before us to approve
11:03:04 that also.
11:03:05 That should have been the process.
11:03:08 I'm not trying to beat you up, Jane.
11:03:10 I know it seems they wanted to try and get it
11:03:12 quicker, they could have taken time.
11:03:13 It's not the lion's share of the dollars and they
11:03:16 could have done it in a different way.
11:03:17 I didn't like the way it was put together because
11:03:19 it puts us under the gun as if this is a contract
11:03:22 that we initiated with parsons Brinckerhoff when
11:03:26 we did not.
11:03:26 We are asking -- the county is asking us to help
11:03:30 out, and we should have made an agreement between
11:03:32 us and the county, period.
11:03:34 >> Okay.
11:03:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: Ms. Capin.
11:03:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:03:37 I'm going to refer to the numbers.
11:03:39 $1.3 million the last time I checked, the city is
11:03:43 in the county.
11:03:44 That money is from all the citizens in the county.
11:03:48 That the county is paying or the state paying, it
11:03:53 is the money of the citizens.
11:03:55 That's right there.
11:03:56 And then $74,985.09 and you stated that there are
11:04:02 22 meetings, but there's more.
11:04:04 I divided that.
11:04:04 It's $3,408.41 per meeting.
11:04:09 I expect there's going to be a lot more delivered
11:04:14 than 22 meetings.
11:04:15 That's all I have to say.
11:04:19 >> Yes.
11:04:20 There is a breakdown of the man-hours and dollars
11:04:22 at the back of the scope that should have been in
11:04:24 your packet.
11:04:25 If it's not, I'll certainly make sure you get
11:04:27 that.
11:04:28 There's other work they are doing besides just the
11:04:30 public engagement meetings themselves.
11:04:32 There were other public outreach things with
11:04:35 social media and the website, but there was also a
11:04:37 lot of data collection, cost estimation,
11:04:41 assimilation of information for development of the
11:04:43 project list, which is the technical part of the
11:04:47 work that they are doing.
11:04:49 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
11:04:50 Let me suggest, I think we probably need to meet
11:04:54 with Council when you put these type of items on
11:04:59 the agenda so we don't have these questions with
11:05:01 these type of agreements in the future.
11:05:03 >> Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:05:04 I appreciate that.
11:05:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: What's the pleasure?
11:05:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I don't want to be the one to
11:05:10 move it because I don't agree with -- it's
11:05:13 Mr. Suarez's committee.
11:05:15 I pulled the item for discussion because I have
11:05:18 issues with this contract, but it's under
11:05:22 Mr. Suarez's committee.
11:05:23 If he wants to move it.
11:05:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I could, chair, to me, I don't
11:05:28 like the process put forward.
11:05:30 It doesn't mean we shouldn't be involved in this
11:05:33 particular discussion with policy leadership
11:05:36 group.
11:05:38 I will move it but I don't think we should put it
11:05:43 in this way because it makes it seems like we
11:05:46 contracted with parsons Brinckerhoff when we have
11:05:48 not.
11:05:49 That's the difference.
11:05:50 We did not contract with those guys.
11:05:53 The county did.
11:05:54 The county wants to ask us for money, I have no
11:05:57 problem them asking for it.
11:05:58 It's a mistake to do it this way.
11:06:01 It's not your fault.
11:06:02 It's not the right way we should do things.
11:06:05 That's my personal opinion.
11:06:06 I'll move it chair.
11:06:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do we have the time to modify
11:06:09 this agreement?
11:06:10 >> I would say that would be -- put us in a
11:06:13 difficult situation.
11:06:14 By the time it got modified this work would
11:06:19 essentially be done and information back before
11:06:21 the policy leadership board for consideration.
11:06:23 I think the next meeting is in October.
11:06:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Chair, if I could, there's no -- I
11:06:28 mean, the time frame between us repaying them or
11:06:32 agreeing to pay for the work, I don't think that
11:06:34 that's an issue.
11:06:35 I don't know what the county will do if we just
11:06:37 delay it.
11:06:38 I don't care either way.
11:06:40 I don't have a problem with us engaging and being
11:06:43 part of this.
11:06:43 I don't like the way the contract was written.
11:06:46 If it comes back with the same amount regardless,
11:06:48 we're not negotiating the contract.
11:06:50 We're just saying whether or not we'll give the
11:06:52 county money in order to be part of it.
11:06:54 That's all.
11:06:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do we have a second to
11:06:58 Mr. Suarez's motion?
11:07:00 >>HARRY COHEN: I'll second for the purpose of
11:07:02 keeping it on the floor.
11:07:03 I want to ask a question.
11:07:05 I understand the point that's being made.
11:07:11 If we were to do it the way that councilman Suarez
11:07:15 suggested, and if for some reason the work were
11:07:21 not completed prior to the policy leadership
11:07:24 groups making a decision, what would that mean in
11:07:27 terms of the substance -- what would they be
11:07:30 lacking in front of them for the $75,000?
11:07:34 What would they not have that is important for
11:07:36 them to make their decision?
11:07:38 >> Well, these dollars are supporting those, first
11:07:41 of all, meetings that are occurring within the
11:07:43 city limits and also the work that is supporting
11:07:47 the development of the project list, taking back
11:07:50 the comments and weeding through, screening
11:07:55 through the comments to make proper adjustments to
11:07:57 the lists that we have proposed that will go
11:08:01 before the board.
11:08:03 There is work that will not be done if this is not
11:08:09 approved and they potentially would have to find
11:08:12 another means.
11:08:14 >>HARRY COHEN: When the policy leadership group
11:08:16 votes on October 1st, they'll be voting also on
11:08:18 the projects that be included in this plan,
11:08:21 correct?
11:08:21 That will be part of it.
11:08:25 We really run the risk if we delay that some of
11:08:28 our city projects might be shortchanged at the
11:08:31 expense of county projects that would have been
11:08:36 analyzed and included, notwithstanding the very
11:08:38 correct objections that I think I heard from
11:08:40 Council we might be shooting ourselves in the foot
11:08:43 as a city if we delay the contract.
11:08:47 >> Yes, the goal is to have the fully vetted list
11:08:50 of projects before the board with a full
11:08:54 completion of proper public engagement so the
11:08:57 board has all that information to make an informed
11:09:00 decision as to whether or not to proceed with the
11:09:02 referendum.
11:09:03 It would have an impact, but I don't know how
11:09:08 problematic it would become.
11:09:10 It would be somewhat problematic, certainly.
11:09:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have a motion from Mr. Suarez.
11:09:17 Second by Mr. Cohen.
11:09:19 Any further discussion?
11:09:20 Hearing none, all in favor aye.
11:09:22 Those opposed.
11:09:22 The motion carries.
11:09:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Aye.
11:09:30 I'm voting no.
11:09:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion passes 6-1.
11:09:33 Item 17.
11:09:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Item 17 I pulled because when
11:09:46 we initiated this contract to -- I'm not sure it
11:09:53 was the same company originally, because I don't
11:09:56 recognize the name.
11:09:57 I didn't look back a couple of years ago when we
11:10:00 first let the contract, but there was a discussion
11:10:04 that took place with Mr. Baird at the time that we
11:10:08 were hoping and I think Mr. Suarez had brought up
11:10:11 an apprentice program to try and get some of our
11:10:17 citizens back to work, because it was the height
11:10:19 of the downturn in the economy.
11:10:21 We have a lot of people out of work in the city.
11:10:23 So I had had discussions with Mr. Baird at the
11:10:27 time about this company hiring and training people
11:10:32 from our community because from what I understood,
11:10:36 the people who worked -- and I'm not sure it's the
11:10:40 same company, but the people who work for the
11:10:41 original company we let the contract to were for
11:10:44 the most part coming from out of town.
11:10:47 And I wasn't comfortable with that.
11:10:50 He said that he would work with them and take a
11:10:56 look at their hiring practices and where possible,
11:11:02 have people from the community be hired to work
11:11:08 for the company.
11:11:08 So if you were in the city limits of the City of
11:11:11 Tampa, advertise for employees within the city
11:11:16 limits of the City of Tampa and not bring so many
11:11:19 people from out of town.
11:11:21 So that's why I've pulled this item.
11:11:23 Before I vote to let out, again, a half million
11:11:29 dollar contract, $499,200, I want to make sure
11:11:35 that people in Tampa are being employed by this
11:11:41 company because of the discussions that I had
11:11:43 several years ago with Mr. Baird.
11:11:47 >> I apologize.
11:11:48 I was unaware of the nature of your question, so I
11:11:51 can't really address --
11:11:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Would you --
11:11:56 >> Chuck Weber, Water Department.
11:11:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We know who you are but not
11:12:00 everybody --
11:12:02 >> I wasn't aware of the nature of your question
11:12:04 so I can't really address what company you were
11:12:07 talking about with Mr. Baird.
11:12:10 This contract is a renewal of a contract that
11:12:12 started I believe in October of '14, just last
11:12:15 year.
11:12:16 So this is the first renewal period.
11:12:18 I don't know if what you're speaking about was
11:12:20 before that or not.
11:12:22 We read 145,000 meters every month.
11:12:26 We have 12 city employees, meter readers and 12
11:12:30 contract readers.
11:12:31 This contract allows us the flexibility to meet
11:12:34 more readers if we have problems with staffing,
11:12:37 with vacancies and absences.
11:12:39 So we've been very successful.
11:12:42 Our meter reader rate is in the high 90s as well
11:12:45 as our accuracy.
11:12:46 So this program is working well for us.
11:12:49 As far as the number of employees, at least half
11:12:52 of them are City of Tampa employees.
11:12:55 The contract workers, I can't address specifically
11:12:59 whether or not they are within the city limits.
11:13:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The 499,200 is for 12 contract
11:13:09 workers.
11:13:10 >> Yes.
11:13:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's a lot of money.
11:13:14 >> My understanding is -- 52 cents to read the
11:13:20 meter, which is relatively cheap.
11:13:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All right.
11:13:23 For the next renewal period, keep in mind, you
11:13:30 know, what we talked about here today, and then
11:13:32 when we go to let the contract again, maybe we'll
11:13:35 have online ordinance come forward about training
11:13:44 and citizens to work on contracts that are let
11:13:47 within the city.
11:13:48 Thank you very much.
11:13:48 I'll move the item, sir.
11:13:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
11:13:51 Got a motion.
11:13:54 Motion from Ms. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:14:01 All in favor, aye.
11:14:02 Opposed.
11:14:03 All right.
11:14:03 Item number 5.
11:14:18 >> Good morning.
11:14:20 Mike Chucran, Contract Administration here for
11:14:22 agenda item number 5.
11:14:24 Resolution to approve the agreement between City
11:14:26 of Tampa and DPR Construction for design-build
11:14:30 services in the amount of 1,250,056 for the Hanna
11:14:33 Avenue municipal building renovations
11:14:36 design-build.
11:14:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any questions from Council?
11:14:39 Need a motion?
11:14:41 Got a motion to move the resolution by Mr. Suarez.
11:14:45 Seconded by Ms. Montelione.
11:14:46 Any discussion?
11:14:47 All in favor, aye.
11:14:50 Thank you, sir.
11:14:51 All right.
11:14:53 The chief of police.
11:14:54 Good morning, sir.
11:15:11 Before you start, let me just say this.
11:15:15 All of this discussion and we're talking about
11:15:22 citizen review board is nothing personal against
11:15:28 you as the police chief.
11:15:31 Nothing personal against law enforcement in
11:15:34 general, and it was brought to my attention that I
11:15:43 may have made public comments in the public that
11:15:45 offended some of the law enforcement officers, and
11:15:47 if that's the case, let me just state for the
11:15:51 record, I apologize.
11:15:53 I'm not here to defend anyone and I'm not here to
11:15:57 make anything personal.
11:15:58 I'm just doing what I think is right and doing
11:16:00 what I think is right for the community.
11:16:03 By saying that, sir, you have the floor.
11:16:05 >>ERIC WARD: Thank you.
11:16:08 Good morning, Council.
11:16:09 The last time I met with Council, we discussed
11:16:14 this citizens review board.
11:16:15 Over the last 30 days or so, I've researched
11:16:18 different agencies, not only throughout the nation
11:16:20 but locally as well.
11:16:22 I've looked at several different models to include
11:16:24 the model over in St. Petersburg.
11:16:27 I adopted that model and presented it to you and
11:16:35 Mayor Buckhorn.
11:16:36 The model that they have in place, looking at
11:16:37 their practice, it's very effective.
11:16:41 I know there are concerns -- I've heard the
11:16:44 public, heard Council, and I listened to all the
11:16:48 comments today, and the general theme is the
11:16:51 subpoena powers.
11:16:53 St. Petersburg's citizen review board doesn't have
11:16:56 subpoena powers, but they are very effective.
11:16:59 So we adopt that program.
11:17:02 That was one of the agencies that Council
11:17:04 suggested that I look at, along with the other
11:17:07 agencies throughout Florida.
11:17:10 None of those agencies have subpoena power.
11:17:12 And they are very effective.
11:17:14 They are still in existence today.
11:17:17 So we mirrored their program, put it in place and
11:17:22 would like to move forward.
11:17:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me make this clear.
11:17:29 We have speakers that are going to come before us
11:17:31 and they are going to speak, and they are going to
11:17:35 be respected.
11:17:36 Whether you like what they are saying or not, let
11:17:41 me put security on notice, law enforcement, if
11:17:45 we've got someone speaking out of turn with
11:17:48 outburst, they are going to be removed, because
11:17:52 we're going to respect the speakers.
11:17:54 Don't you be the person.
11:18:00 Anything else, chief?
11:18:03 >>ERIC WARD: That's it.
11:18:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any questions from Council?
11:18:06 Ms. Montelione.
11:18:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:18:09 I'm sure there's going to be more than one round,
11:18:14 but my first -- yes, Chief Ward, you know it, too.
11:18:18 I would first like to hear what we had originally
11:18:25 requested of you, Chief Ward, at our last meeting
11:18:32 asking you to come forward today.
11:18:33 What we asked for -- and I have written down in my
11:18:36 own notes.
11:18:36 I'm not reading from the agenda item.
11:18:39 And this was I believe from Ms. Capin to put a
11:18:44 time line on the review and the presentation you
11:18:47 were going to make.
11:18:50 You had said you were in research mode.
11:18:51 We asked Mr.-- Mr. Cohen asked about the
11:18:55 differences between the other jurisdictional
11:19:01 approaches.
11:19:01 And that's what I would like to hear.
11:19:04 Because with the Mayor's announcement last Friday,
11:19:08 which is not the first time he's done that.
11:19:11 You and I spoke yesterday, and he did that with
11:19:14 the fire department as well when I brought up the
11:19:16 issues with the fire department and some
11:19:19 leadership and discrimination and harassment
11:19:23 issues, we got a memo and said the attached press
11:19:29 release would suffice.
11:19:30 And chief forward would not be appearing before
11:19:34 Council.
11:19:35 You, sir, are here.
11:19:36 Thank you very much for appearing, because I was
11:19:38 afraid we would get another memo that said, read
11:19:42 the press release from Friday, and that would be
11:19:44 all we would have to discuss.
11:19:48 So thank you for being here.
11:19:49 But I would like to hear what you researched, what
11:19:53 you found, what your comparisons were between the
11:19:56 different models, why beyond your saying just now
11:20:01 that the St. Petersburg model seems to be working
11:20:04 but why that model, why you think it works and
11:20:08 what other models did you look at and why were
11:20:10 they not considered to be a good fit for us?
11:20:13 So I would like to hear from you as we originally
11:20:18 planned before the Mayor came out with the press
11:20:20 release on Friday.
11:20:24 >>ERIC WARD: As discussed at the last meeting,
11:20:25 when I mentioned looking nationally at these
11:20:28 different citizen review boards, it was suggested
11:20:31 I look local.
11:20:32 I did look at Orange County, Sarasota, Orlando,
11:20:35 St. Pete, and Fort Myers.
11:20:38 None of these boards are identical.
11:20:41 There are differences in each board.
11:20:42 Sarasota is a five-member board.
11:20:46 It's chaired by a Chairman, the city manager, the
11:20:49 City Attorney and the chief of police.
11:20:51 Orlando is a five-member board.
11:20:55 I don't have their breakdown with me in front of
11:20:57 me right now.
11:20:58 St. Petersburg is a nine-member board with two
11:21:00 alternates and all the appointments are appointed
11:21:06 by the Mayor.
11:21:06 Fort Myers, it's a nine-member board, each Council
11:21:10 member has a vote and the Mayor has a vote as far
11:21:13 as picking their members.
11:21:14 And then there were other agencies I looked at in
11:21:16 California, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, New York,
11:21:21 California, Arizona, Texas, and I don't have their
11:21:28 breakdown.
11:21:28 I just stuck to the local ones.
11:21:31 If you look across the board, they are all
11:21:33 different.
11:21:34 I adopted St. Petersburg's model because, one, it
11:21:38 was local.
11:21:39 We have similarities in our crimes, in our
11:21:42 citizens, our makeup of the city.
11:21:44 I thought that practice or that board would fit
11:21:46 best for our agency.
11:21:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
11:21:54 There seems to be a difference of opinion on
11:22:01 whether the St. Petersburg model is working.
11:22:05 How long ago -- and I have all this information in
11:22:07 the backup and I've done my homework, but maybe
11:22:13 some of the folks watching on TV or in the
11:22:16 audience are not familiar with the St. Petersburg
11:22:20 model.
11:22:20 How long has it been in place?
11:22:35 >> I don't have the date.
11:22:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm sorry?
11:22:43 Since the last riot.
11:22:45 I've got in the materials that were provided, I
11:22:48 believe, by your office or by the City Attorney's
11:22:51 office, established November 21st, 1991.
11:22:54 Which is from the city of St. Petersburg civilian
11:23:02 police review committee community information and
11:23:05 recruitment package.
11:23:06 So it's been quite some time, and I don't know
11:23:12 from the materials that were provided if since
11:23:16 1991 there have been any changes to the program or
11:23:25 if what we were provided in this packet still
11:23:29 stands today.
11:23:30 My concern -- let me get to a question, because
11:23:34 that was a statement.
11:23:35 Julia, we're not ready yet.
11:23:39 My concern is that this is something that so many
11:23:43 years ago was established, may or may not have
11:23:47 been modified, and we're starting this program in
11:23:53 2015, hopefully, maybe 2016, depending on how long
11:23:59 this drags out, and I think that there may be some
11:24:07 modernizations.
11:24:09 There may be some other circumstances or
11:24:12 particulars that need to be addressed in this day
11:24:18 and age that are different from the circumstances
11:24:20 of 1991.
11:24:25 >> The original board did start in 1991.
11:24:28 I believe it was 24 members.
11:24:29 And they did make modifications to it.
11:24:32 24 members was just too much.
11:24:35 And they reduced those numbers to 9.
11:24:38 That's where I come up with the 9 number.
11:24:41 They have 9 active members and two alternates.
11:24:43 They did make modifications to that board, and
11:24:46 those modifications made that board more
11:24:48 effective.
11:24:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can you cite examples of their
11:24:56 effectiveness?
11:24:58 >>ERIC WARD: I don't have them before me.
11:25:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maybe not going back to 1991
11:25:02 but how many cases have come before the
11:25:04 St. Petersburg review board, how many changes?
11:25:07 >>ERIC WARD: They just had a meeting last Tuesday
11:25:09 and it was --
11:25:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The reason I'm asking you this,
11:25:16 chief, is because if we're saying that we're
11:25:18 basing our model on St. Petersburg's model,
11:25:20 because it has been effective, I would like some
11:25:23 examples of how it's been effective.
11:25:34 [ APPLAUSE ]
11:25:35 Thank you for that, but as the Chairman said,
11:25:37 outbursts would mean we would have to clear the
11:25:40 chamber and we don't want to do that.
11:25:42 We want this to be respectful of everyone who is
11:25:44 going to speak.
11:25:45 I don't believe there were a lot of outbursts when
11:25:48 the public was speaking.
11:25:50 Anyway --
11:25:51 Maybe during this discussion somebody back at
11:25:55 headquarters can pull this information and bring
11:25:57 it to us later on in the discussion.
11:26:00 But how many cases have they heard over the past,
11:26:03 let's say, I don't know, five years?
11:26:06 How many recommendations have been made to the
11:26:09 police chief and to maybe internal affairs or to
11:26:13 human resources on changes that should be made?
11:26:16 How many of those changes that were suggested by
11:26:19 the St. Petersburg review board have been actually
11:26:23 put into place?
11:26:24 So that would maybe give me a comfort level that
11:26:29 the St. Petersburg model actually does work.
11:26:34 Because without that information, I mean, I trust
11:26:42 your judgment, and I'm hoping that the information
11:26:44 that I'm asking for will prove that out.
11:26:47 >>ERIC WARD: That's something I will have to
11:26:49 address with St. Pete and get that information
11:26:50 back to Council.
11:26:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, like I said, this is
11:26:54 probably going to be a long discussion.
11:26:55 Maybe somebody back at headquarters.
11:26:57 We have a lot of analysts in TPD that can perform
11:27:02 work pretty quickly.
11:27:03 So I would like those answers before we leave
11:27:06 chambers today if you don't mind.
11:27:08 >>ERIC WARD: Do you want know leave now and go and
11:27:11 get it?
11:27:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
11:27:13 I'm sure everybody at headquarters is watching.
11:27:15 So if we have a few assistant chiefs, I believe,
11:27:19 who can start working on that while you're here,
11:27:22 because I don't see the other assistant chiefs
11:27:25 here.
11:27:28 >>JULIA MANDELL: Before we do that, Julia Mandell,
11:27:30 City Attorney.
11:27:32 In order for us to stop that conversation and have
11:27:33 some folks over there.
11:27:35 It wasn't part of the original motion to bring
11:27:38 that level of detail.
11:27:39 I think it would be appropriate to get a motion
11:27:40 that way we know that's something City Council
11:27:42 needs today or something they want to wait on.
11:27:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: As the maker of the motion,
11:27:49 nowhere in here does it say to just look locally.
11:27:56 It may have been mentioned, but in here it
11:27:59 reads -- this is my motion -- police Chief Ward,
11:28:03 Tampa Police Department, to appear and provide a
11:28:05 report regarding his findings of other
11:28:08 jurisdictions that he has studied, including
11:28:11 recommendations of how the city can implement the
11:28:14 best practices that fit the city concerning
11:28:17 citizens review board.
11:28:18 The motion initiated by Capin and Cohen.
11:28:24 August the 6th.
11:28:25 So we're talking about something that is an
11:28:33 assumption.
11:28:36 I'm looking at it, councilman Montelione brought
11:28:41 up, it's exactly what we asked for.
11:28:43 Because it was preempted by the Mayor, it's
11:28:46 assumed that this is what we want.
11:28:50 When what we wanted was a report.
11:28:59 I went over your program.
11:29:05 There are many, many valid and useful parts to it,
11:29:14 but we did not ask for a board.
11:29:16 We asked for a report and we are being presented
11:29:25 with a board.
11:29:25 At that point, chief, you did your work except it
11:29:32 was assumed that it would be local.
11:29:35 When you mentioned all those cities and states,
11:29:37 and I asked would 30 days be sufficient, you said
11:29:46 yes.
11:29:47 That is a concern for me that we're not getting a
11:29:49 report.
11:29:49 That we are being handed a board instead of a
11:29:53 report when the City Council did not ask for you
11:29:55 to come or anyone else to come and present us with
11:29:58 a board.
11:29:59 If we didn't ask for that line of detail, it is
11:30:08 brought enough, this motion, that all the cities
11:30:10 you stated that you looked at, I would say that
11:30:15 you looked at all those and not just local.
11:30:22 I'm with Councilwoman Montelione, and I think we
11:30:28 need the details of why this particular
11:30:32 St. Petersburg model is the best model.
11:30:35 We did ask you to come to us with the best model.
11:30:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Response, chief?
11:30:43 >>ERIC WARD: No.
11:30:44 I'm sure like you said, someone is listening over
11:30:46 at the station and I'm sure they are trying to
11:30:48 gather that data for me.
11:30:50 As soon as they bring it over, we'll present it.
11:30:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: [INAUDIBLE] [Microphone not on]
11:30:58 >> Yes, sir.
11:30:59 I move that we receive the information supporting
11:31:04 the statement that St. Petersburg model is working
11:31:07 and is the best fit for the City of Tampa.
11:31:11 And I would ask that we have the data to support
11:31:15 that being and not limited to the number of cases
11:31:22 that have been heard by the civilian review board
11:31:25 in St. Petersburg over the past five years, the
11:31:29 number of suggestions and what those suggestions
11:31:33 were to the police chief of the city of
11:31:37 St. Petersburg that arose out of their analysis,
11:31:43 how many of those suggestions made by the review
11:31:50 board have been made policy and put into place in
11:31:54 the city of St. Petersburg.
11:31:56 I think that covers it.
11:31:57 I need a second.
11:32:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
11:32:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I speak to the motion,
11:32:06 Mr. Chairman?
11:32:07 I understand and appreciate everything that was
11:32:09 said.
11:32:09 However, it seems to me that no matter whether it
11:32:13 was St. Pete or somewhere in California or
11:32:16 New York or whatever state you want to chose or
11:32:18 whatever city you want to choose, it would be
11:32:24 somewhat difficult to understand because then you
11:32:28 have to check how they did it, who did it, who's
11:32:32 on the committee, what happened.
11:32:34 It will get to the point where you will be
11:32:36 studying these so-called committees throughout the
11:32:38 country for a long period of time.
11:32:41 I don't know if the chief -- I'm certainly not
11:32:48 speaking for the chief or anyone in the police
11:32:50 department or anyone but myself.
11:32:54 How many cases were heard?
11:32:56 Does that mean how many cases were heard in
11:32:59 St. Pete or throughout the country and how this
11:33:02 report is assimilated?
11:33:03 And what is the outcome?
11:33:06 How about if there were no cases heard because
11:33:08 there was no action taken.
11:33:09 That was never explained in that motion.
11:33:12 So we're making an assumption that cases were
11:33:14 heard.
11:33:15 Just because you have a committee doesn't mean
11:33:17 that you had cases.
11:33:18 It means you had a committee to hear the cases.
11:33:20 Whether it's here, locally or anywhere else in the
11:33:25 country, what is it that we're looking for?
11:33:29 That's what I want to know.
11:33:30 What is it that we're looking for?
11:33:32 I'm open to suggestions.
11:33:35 I'm finished.
11:33:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: [microphone not on]
11:33:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It was specific to
11:33:43 St. Petersburg because that is the model that
11:33:45 we're adopting.
11:33:45 That is the model.
11:33:47 Let me rephrase that.
11:33:49 That is the model that has been adopted.
11:33:51 According to the press release that went out or
11:33:55 the press conference that was held on Friday.
11:33:57 So it is specific.
11:33:59 My motion is specific to St. Petersburg because
11:34:01 we're basing or have based the model that we're
11:34:05 adopting, and I say "we" as the city not "we" as
11:34:10 the Council.
11:34:11 Because it's the best model.
11:34:13 And I'm referencing five years because I would
11:34:21 just assume with some of the news reports that I
11:34:23 have seen over the past five years coming out of
11:34:26 St. Petersburg that there have been incidences
11:34:31 that would have, in my mind, warranted such
11:34:35 review. And if there have not been any in the
11:34:38 past five years, if there have not been any cases
11:34:42 brought before the St. Petersburg CRB in five
11:34:47 years, I'm not so sure it would be the most
11:34:49 effective model.
11:34:51 It's not all of the country, and to say, you know,
11:34:55 that it might take a long time to do this
11:34:59 research, as Ms. Capin said, we asked for a report
11:35:03 and the chief has said that 30 days would give him
11:35:06 ample time because he had already started looking
11:35:09 into different models from different places.
11:35:11 So 30 days was enough to complete the research he
11:35:14 had already begun.
11:35:15 I don't care if it takes -- that's why I said 15
11:35:20 or 16, I guess I shouldn't say I don't care about
11:35:24 how long it takes, but I don't mind spending
11:35:29 enough time of thoughtful consideration to make
11:35:33 sure we get it right.
11:35:36 Because as you and I spoke yesterday, chief, we as
11:35:42 a Council and as a city are establishing a
11:35:47 procedure and a board that will be in place long
11:35:54 after we are gone.
11:35:55 As I said to Jane castor when chief castor was
11:35:58 standing in your place, we trust her.
11:36:00 We trust you.
11:36:01 But in 25 years, you're not going to be the chief
11:36:06 of police, and we're not going to be sitting in
11:36:09 these seats.
11:36:09 And the people who are sitting here may not even
11:36:12 be born yet, and I don't know if we can rush into
11:36:19 something that's going to stand long after we're
11:36:23 gone and trust people that I never met.
11:36:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Ms. Montelione, let me interrupt
11:36:29 for a second because I want to you keep the focus
11:36:31 on responding to his question.
11:36:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Sorry.
11:36:34 I thought that was -- that is a response.
11:36:36 To the amount of time it would take.
11:36:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Cohen, you had a comment.
11:36:43 >>HARRY COHEN: I just wanted to make the
11:36:45 suggestion that we have so many issues that I
11:36:46 think we'll be talking about surrounding this
11:36:48 entire matter, and I have a feeling if we start
11:36:52 making motions and voting on them before we
11:36:55 actually get into the heart of the matter we're
11:36:58 going to end up, I think, confused.
11:37:01 Clearly, we want the information on
11:37:03 St. Petersburg, and I think we'll get to that, but
11:37:07 maybe if we could just continue the discussion on
11:37:11 the relative merits of what's been proposed,
11:37:13 what's been proposed by the public, it may clarify
11:37:17 what it is we want to ask for by the end of the
11:37:21 discussion rather than sort of lurching off in
11:37:24 different directions as we try to move through it.
11:37:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just say this, we've still
11:37:33 got a matter, and I think the chief has made his
11:37:37 report available to us, but I think the bigger
11:37:40 picture we've got is what the City Attorney going
11:37:45 to bring for us and what our counsel is going to
11:37:48 respond to and what we ask the Council want to do.
11:37:54 Once all this is done, I have a motion that I'm
11:37:59 going to make pertaining to all of this that might
11:38:09 have some ramifications for all the things that
11:38:12 are going to be said.
11:38:12 When I spoke with the chief, I made it known to
11:38:22 the chief that I don't accept his recommendation.
11:38:26 I don't accept the Mayor's recommendation.
11:38:31 A nine-member board appointed by the Mayor and two
11:38:37 of this Council.
11:38:38 I don't know, Council members, when we're trying
11:38:44 to appoint people on these CRA boards that you've
11:38:49 got more than three or four on there what that
11:38:51 look like.
11:38:53 And you can imagine seven members trying to
11:38:56 appoint two people.
11:38:59 We would be all day.
11:39:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can we take a vote on the
11:39:02 motion, sir?
11:39:03 I have a motion.
11:39:06 I made a motion.
11:39:07 I have a second, and I would like to call the
11:39:09 question and have a vote.
11:39:10 I'll hold off on calling the question.
11:39:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Ms. Montelione.
11:39:20 It's pertinent this information to whatever
11:39:25 decision we move forward on.
11:39:27 It's very pertinent.
11:39:30 I would say waiting until the end to move these
11:39:34 things, we can move them as we move along.
11:39:38 I understand the issue, and I think we all
11:39:40 understand the issue.
11:39:42 So that was --
11:39:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Call the question, sir.
11:39:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: [microphone not on]
11:39:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I was going to say just for
11:39:57 Robert's Rules of Order, calling the question
11:40:01 requires a second, and then it requires a vote,
11:40:05 and then it ends the discussion.
11:40:06 Just so you know.
11:40:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: [microphone not on]
11:40:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I asked for is to hear the
11:40:15 question.
11:40:16 It's been debated and different --
11:40:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The clerk can read the
11:40:20 question.
11:40:20 We have to vote on calling the question.
11:40:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: [microphone not on]
11:40:26 If you are in favor, you vote in favor.
11:40:33 If not, we continue discussion.
11:40:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm just calling the question.
11:40:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: All in favor of the motion --
11:40:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't even know what the
11:40:43 question is.
11:40:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: The question is to stop
11:40:45 discussion and she want to get to the point of the
11:40:47 motion.
11:40:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: After we call the question.
11:40:50 Then the clerk will read the motion.
11:40:52 Thank you.
11:40:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: All those in favor of the motion
11:40:57 by Ms. Montelione to call the question and second
11:41:00 by Ms. Capin, all in favor of that motion say aye.
11:41:04 >> No.
11:41:04 >> No.
11:41:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
11:41:06 >>THE CLERK: [INAUDIBLE]
11:41:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: Go back to the motion.
11:41:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Madam clerk, can you read the
11:41:13 motion?
11:41:16 >>THE CLERK: -- statement that the St. Pete model
11:41:22 is working and the best fit for the city and that
11:41:25 you have the data, the number of cases heard by
11:41:28 the board over the past five years, number of
11:41:31 suggestions to the police chief of St. Pete and
11:41:35 how many of the suggestions have been made and put
11:41:37 into place by St. Pete.
11:41:39 >> [INAUDIBLE]
11:41:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If they can't produce the
11:41:57 information, then we can continue to the next
11:42:01 discussion.
11:42:01 Chief, do you think that they can pull some
11:42:06 numbers?
11:42:06 Ah, assistant Chief Dugan.
11:42:11 Is that enough time, sir?
11:42:13 >> Good morning, Council.
11:42:15 Brian Dugan, Assistant Chief of Police.
11:42:19 As I was coming over here, I probably missed some
11:42:22 of the discussion.
11:42:23 What exactly are we looking for?
11:42:25 I was remiss not providing this information for
11:42:27 you today.
11:42:28 Let me make sure I understand completely what it
11:42:30 is that we're looking for.
11:42:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: As the clerk read the motion
11:42:34 correctly, the number of cases in five years that
11:42:37 have been reviewed by the city of St. Petersburg
11:42:40 citizen review board, the number of suggestions
11:42:44 that have come out of those reviews, and the
11:42:48 number of those suggestions that have been
11:42:50 implemented by the city of St. Petersburg police
11:42:53 department.
11:42:54 >> Okay.
11:42:55 Obviously, you know, I would get right on that.
11:42:59 I'll go back there right now.
11:43:01 But to tell you that I can provide that
11:43:03 information today, I don't even know if they have
11:43:06 that available.
11:43:06 I certainly don't want to make assumptions.
11:43:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Give it your best shot and let
11:43:15 us know by the end of the meeting.
11:43:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have a motion by
11:43:23 Ms. Montelione, seconded by Ms. Capin.
11:43:27 Further discussion of the motion?
11:43:29 All those in favor of the motion, aye.
11:43:32 Those opposed.
11:43:33 >> No.
11:43:33 >> Nay.
11:43:34 >>THE CLERK: Miranda and Cohen voting no.
11:43:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, members.
11:43:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Anything else, chief or from
11:43:41 Council?
11:43:44 >>ERIC WARD: No.
11:43:45 I think it's a great model, bringing it to our
11:43:50 agency.
11:43:51 It's not the practice itself.
11:43:55 It's the model, the framework for it to set it up.
11:43:58 Coming to Tampa, we have an opportunity to make
11:44:01 this very successful.
11:44:02 It's just the framework that I adopted from
11:44:05 St. Pete.
11:44:06 I didn't adopt their practices or their policies.
11:44:07 I adopted the framework for their board to bring
11:44:10 to Tampa so we can put something in place.
11:44:13 The question is we have nothing now.
11:44:15 So we need to put something in place and that is a
11:44:17 great model to put in place.
11:44:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
11:44:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for the record, I met with
11:44:26 Chief Ward, and I really enjoyed the conversation
11:44:31 him and I had.
11:44:32 If I remember some of that conversation, I don't
11:44:37 know what this means, but bless you, too.
11:44:41 If I remember that conversation, chief, you said
11:44:43 that even before you were chief, if I recall, you
11:44:46 had already met with different groups about
11:44:48 forming a committee such as this.
11:44:50 Am I correct?
11:44:52 >>ERIC WARD: Yes, sir.
11:44:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So this wasn't really -- this
11:44:55 was something that you were already working on
11:44:58 before it was brought to your attention, am I
11:45:00 correct?
11:45:00 >>ERIC WARD: Yes, sir.
11:45:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just wanted to put it in the
11:45:06 record.
11:45:06 Thank you very much.
11:45:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me at this time -- anything
11:45:17 else you want to say, chief at this time?
11:45:19 >>ERIC WARD: No.
11:45:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: We appreciate your thoughts on
11:45:25 this.
11:45:26 It's sad it was circumvented by someone else.
11:45:29 At this time, I'll ask Ms. Mandell.
11:45:37 >>JULIA MANDELL: Julia Mandell, City Attorney.
11:45:40 I have provided you with a memorandum in response
11:45:43 to the questions that you posed at your last
11:45:46 proceeding.
11:45:47 I don't know how much further you would like me to
11:45:52 get into that specifically or if you would like me
11:45:54 to be available to answer questions.
11:45:55 I have now had an opportunity as well to review
11:45:58 the memorandum submitted by Mr. Shelby, which I
11:46:01 received yesterday afternoon, and happy to have a
11:46:04 conversation about that as well.
11:46:06 And also there obviously have been other issues
11:46:09 that have come up that I am prepared to respond
11:46:12 to, if Council so desires me to.
11:46:17 In terms of proceeding, I would ask the Council's
11:46:21 guidance on how they would like me to proceed.
11:46:23 >> Thank you, chair, since I was the maker of the
11:46:25 original motion concerning these issues, I would
11:46:27 like to ask a few questions.
11:46:30 First of all, let's get the third part of my
11:46:32 motion out of the way, which is a sunshine board.
11:46:35 >>JULIA MANDELL: That's an easy one, yes.
11:46:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's an easy one, yes.
11:46:39 Anyone that is part of the sunshine board.
11:46:41 >>JULIA MANDELL: Part of delegated board under
11:46:43 which something more than simple gathering
11:46:47 information, but actually will be doing any type
11:46:50 of analysis of the information, then, yes, it
11:46:53 would be subject to Sunshine Law.
11:46:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Since, you know, everything has
11:46:56 been preempted because an executive order has been
11:46:59 passed in order to set up this board, let's talk
11:47:02 about that in relation as opposed to directly what
11:47:04 my motion was about, if that's okay.
11:47:06 You didn't know and I didn't know that we would be
11:47:12 in this position at this point.
11:47:14 We were going to talk about the formation of a
11:47:16 board not the fait accompli where a board has
11:47:20 already been completed.
11:47:21 I know we both didn't know if there would be a
11:47:24 board created or not, so let's go forward from
11:47:26 there.
11:47:27 A couple of the issues that have been brought up,
11:47:31 first of all, I think there is a misconception in
11:47:34 terms of what maybe some of the folks in the
11:47:37 public or what we're able to do.
11:47:40 There's nothing in the charter that says
11:47:42 specifically that the Mayor has absolute power to
11:47:46 do any of these advisory boards.
11:47:48 Again, this goes back to my original motion about
11:47:52 an advisory board concerning gathering information
11:47:54 after the fact.
11:47:55 In fact, I will say that the draft that I have for
11:47:59 what I would see in terms of a board is pretty
11:48:03 similar to what the Mayor has brought forward.
11:48:05 But in terms of that, there's nothing that
11:48:08 precludes us from being able to put an ordinance
11:48:12 together to create a board, is that correct?
11:48:14 >>JULIA MANDELL: Let me say it this way --
11:48:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Advisory board.
11:48:18 I want to reiterate that.
11:48:19 >>JULIA MANDELL: I think I stated within the body
11:48:21 of my memorandum and it was also within the body
11:48:23 of Mr. Shelby's memorandum that there is nothing
11:48:25 in the charter that precludes this board from
11:48:27 creating this -- City Council from creating an
11:48:29 advisory board to them on matters, and has been
11:48:35 done, how it's accomplished, through a legislative
11:48:37 act or an act of resolution, would depend on what
11:48:40 it is you intended that board to do and how that
11:48:43 would be set up.
11:48:44 Also, it would obviously need to be reviewed
11:48:48 against the charter.
11:48:48 Not against what the Mayor has done, but against
11:48:50 the charter.
11:48:51 So I think that that would be part of the
11:48:53 analysis.
11:48:55 I give an example of your budget review advisory
11:48:58 committee.
11:48:58 That was created by resolution.
11:48:59 And there are other boards that have been created
11:49:02 by legislation.
11:49:03 There are several that are within Mr. Shelby's
11:49:06 memo.
11:49:07 I will say many of them are either set up pursuant
11:49:09 to a charter requirement or charter allowability.
11:49:12 Some are set up through federal regulation, and
11:49:15 some have been set up for -- prior to the charter
11:49:19 actually being enacted.
11:49:23 I don't know that it will get into that level of
11:49:25 detail at this time.
11:49:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me ask you a specific question
11:49:28 about executive orders.
11:49:30 Obviously, that is an action of the Mayor that is
11:49:32 separate from any action undertaken together that
11:49:35 we do when we pass an ordinance and then he either
11:49:38 signs or vetoes an ordinance.
11:49:40 It is something that is directed for what reason?
11:49:42 What do executive orders mean in relation to both
11:49:46 his power as Mayor and our power as Council?
11:49:51 >>JULIA MANDELL: Executive order would be his
11:49:54 specific authority to have some kind of action in
11:49:58 a formal way.
11:49:59 I know that was kind of a long way to get there.
11:50:02 That's his ability to have a formal action.
11:50:04 He can't create an ordinance.
11:50:06 So it would be his act, if it's an official act,
11:50:09 done pursuant to an executive order.
11:50:11 That's within our charter as well.
11:50:13 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Does it have the power of an
11:50:16 ordinance?
11:50:16 >>JULIA MANDELL: It's not a law general act --
11:50:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: What is the difference between
11:50:21 executive order and ordinance?
11:50:22 >>JULIA MANDELL: The executive order would be
11:50:23 within his authority to direct in this case but in
11:50:26 other cases specific actions of different
11:50:28 departments, how different departments will be
11:50:30 managed or run, how maybe a certain process,
11:50:34 like -- I'll give you an example totally off
11:50:37 topic, but it informs how we handle a lot of these
11:50:40 things.
11:50:40 If you have a code enforcement matter and someone
11:50:43 wants to settle for a certain amount of money
11:50:45 below their lien, there is an executive order out
11:50:49 there that says because of my authority under the
11:50:51 charter to deal with enforcement issues, here's
11:50:55 how you are to process your lien lowering ability.
11:50:59 It's not it's for a variety of issues, but the
11:51:03 Mayor's formal action on a specific item within
11:51:05 his authority under the charter.
11:51:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Would it be fair to say it's
11:51:10 ministerial and administrative in some way,
11:51:13 meaning that he is executing certain things that
11:51:16 is already part of ordinances or ordinances that
11:51:19 we pass that he has to put into practice and he's
11:51:22 going to use an executive order in order to make
11:51:25 that process a smooth administrative way of doing
11:51:27 something that we've asked to be done.
11:51:30 >>JULIA MANDELL: It's really factual.
11:51:32 Sometimes it might be ministerial action.
11:51:34 Sometimes it might be an administrative action.
11:51:36 Sometimes it might be an executive action.
11:51:39 There are nuances with different very few people
11:51:41 except lawyers and policy wonks.
11:51:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The reason I'm asking all these
11:51:46 questions is because since he set a board in place
11:51:51 that is an executive order, in order for us to,
11:51:53 let's say as a hypothetical, we wanted to change
11:51:56 an executive order, you don't change an executive
11:52:00 order.
11:52:00 You can just pass an ordinance that overrides that
11:52:03 executive order, is that correct?
11:52:04 >>JULIA MANDELL: I wouldn't even say it overrides.
11:52:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ordinance has more power than
11:52:10 executive order?
11:52:10 >>JULIA MANDELL: It's hard to answer that without
11:52:12 knowing exactly what we're talking about, but I
11:52:14 will say this.
11:52:15 His authority, the Mayor's authority --
11:52:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I can stop you a second.
11:52:21 Let me put it in perspective in terms of what I'm
11:52:23 asking you.
11:52:24 Let's say we make a decision that we want to have
11:52:26 a certain number of people that are on this board
11:52:29 that we select as opposed to what he's put in
11:52:32 place.
11:52:32 We could pass an ordinance that says we would like
11:52:35 an advisory board, let's say it's exactly the way
11:52:38 the Mayor has put it up, but we'll have certain
11:52:40 number of people that are selected as opposed to
11:52:42 the way he set it up, we could pass that ordinance
11:52:45 and he would either agree to that ordinance or
11:52:48 would veto that ordinance, is that correct?
11:52:50 I mean, is that the process?
11:52:53 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would tell you from this
11:52:55 perspective.
11:52:56 The Mayor's authority to delegate anything for
11:52:59 executive order is what he has within the charter
11:53:02 and the ordinances.
11:53:03 If you give him additional authority that he needs
11:53:07 or she, this is really more of a generalized
11:53:10 conversation, that the Mayor would be obligated to
11:53:12 then do something proactive, that could be done
11:53:14 through executive order and that's something that
11:53:16 if you change your ordinance, that might change
11:53:19 his executive order.
11:53:20 That doesn't mean that you can override the
11:53:24 authority of the Mayor through an ordinance nor
11:53:28 can the Mayor override the authority of City
11:53:30 Council through an executive order.
11:53:32 There is a distinct, within our charter,
11:53:36 separation of powers and that gets directly into
11:53:38 that particular issue.
11:53:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But again, this goes more directly,
11:53:42 not to separation of powers, because he's got to
11:53:45 either sign or veto an ordinance, is that correct?
11:53:48 >>JULIA MANDELL: That's correct.
11:53:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If we put it into an ordinance --
11:53:51 what I'm getting at, Ms. Mandell, there is a
11:53:54 political solution to any disagreements between
11:53:56 ourselves and the administration, it is not always
11:53:58 a legal decision.
11:54:01 My point is that he can't put into place something
11:54:05 that we can't undo.
11:54:07 We can.
11:54:07 We can attempt to undo it.
11:54:09 He can say no and if we do not continue to undo
11:54:12 it, then it doesn't matter.
11:54:14 It falls to the wayside.
11:54:15 >>JULIA MANDELL: I simply can't answer that
11:54:17 question without knowing something more specific
11:54:19 and let me tell you why --
11:54:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hang on.
11:54:23 Before you start.
11:54:25 I did give you a specific hypothetical.
11:54:27 If we pass an ordinance to change the makeup of a
11:54:30 board that he has already created and we said, no,
11:54:34 we want something that's different that has a
11:54:37 different makeup, because I'm making one specific
11:54:41 question, not the whole board itself, just the
11:54:44 makeup of the board.
11:54:45 We agree that we want to do this, but we want a
11:54:48 makeup that's different.
11:54:49 We're going to send it to you as an ordinance and
11:54:52 he can say, yes, I agree with you, no, I don't.
11:54:55 Here is a veto.
11:54:56 Come back to Council and then we have to override
11:54:59 with three-quarters of our members.
11:55:02 And that's the only question I'm asking.
11:55:04 Is that not a factual way of looking at it?
11:55:09 >>JULIA MANDELL: What you're asking is, can City
11:55:12 Council direct the Legal Department to draft an
11:55:14 ordinance which obligates the Mayor to amend his
11:55:18 executive order or to otherwise change an action
11:55:20 that he's taken pursuant to his authority that
11:55:26 would in essence have City Council directing the
11:55:29 Mayor to take a certain action to change the way
11:55:32 the executive order reads.
11:55:34 One, I have to draft that ordinance, yes, I would.
11:55:38 I need to take this out to a logical conclusion,
11:55:42 if you don't mind.
11:55:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You're going on a different
11:55:45 tributary than what I wanted.
11:55:46 But that's okay, continue.
11:55:48 I had a different question.
11:55:49 Please, finish, that's fine.
11:55:58 >>JULIA MANDELL: Just getting to the point of what
11:56:00 I think the real conversation is that's happening,
11:56:02 which is where the Mayor's authority starts and
11:56:05 stops and where does City Council's authority
11:56:07 start and stop, so let's just take it out to its
11:56:10 logical conclusion.
11:56:11 There is an ordinance on the table that would have
11:56:13 the effect of either changing what the Mayor has
11:56:16 already adopted pursuant to executive order or
11:56:20 otherwise would impede into the authority of one
11:56:22 branch or the other.
11:56:23 You would direct the City Attorney's office to
11:56:26 draft that ordinance.
11:56:27 The City Attorney's office, probably me because --
11:56:33 would draft it.
11:56:35 I'm obligated under the ordinance to present you
11:56:37 that type of ordinance.
11:56:38 Then I'm obligated under my authority in the
11:56:41 charter to give you my legal opinion as to whether
11:56:43 or not that is a legally sufficient ordinance.
11:56:46 From there, if you pass it anyway, then, yes, it
11:56:50 would have to go to the Mayor.
11:56:51 I would probably advise the Mayor to go ahead and
11:56:56 veto it.
11:56:57 If he chose not to because, hey, lawyers give
11:57:00 their thoughts and recommendations and advice, but
11:57:03 that doesn't mean they are always taken.
11:57:04 He can do whatever he feels is necessary and yes,
11:57:07 it could come over here for a vote from there.
11:57:09 That's in essence the way the process would work.
11:57:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I apologize.
11:57:13 One last question.
11:57:15 Whenever there is an executive order that's in
11:57:17 conflict with an ordinance, not that it's ever
11:57:19 happened.
11:57:20 I don't know if it has.
11:57:22 I don't know the history of these particular type
11:57:23 of proceedings, whether or not it has.
11:57:25 If there is a conflict between an executive order
11:57:28 and an ordinance, you're saying an executive order
11:57:30 and an ordinance are on an even playing field,
11:57:35 because if the Mayor is exerting that it is
11:57:37 executive power that he is putting forward, that
11:57:40 the legislative does not have the right to
11:57:44 override an executive power, is that correct?
11:57:46 >>JULIA MANDELL: That's clear in the charter.
11:57:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's what I was trying to get at.
11:57:52 I want to make sure there's not really a process
11:57:53 to override an executive order.
11:57:55 It has to be done by ordinance and then some
11:57:58 discussion as to whether or not that ordinance
11:57:59 supersedes or is going over what the ordinance --
11:58:03 I mean, what the charter actually says.
11:58:05 That's what I was trying to get at.
11:58:08 I thank you very much for everything you put
11:58:09 forward.
11:58:10 I apologize.
11:58:11 Thank you.
11:58:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: Before we go back to the
11:58:14 remaining Council members, what is your pleasure,
11:58:17 Council?
11:58:18 It's almost 12 noon.
11:58:19 Did we want to break?
11:58:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I don't necessarily myself need
11:58:28 a break right now.
11:58:29 I would extend till 1:00, and if we're not wrapped
11:58:34 up with this discussion by 1:00, then I would
11:58:36 suggest we take lunch at that time, just so that
11:58:40 everybody here -- I'm sure people in the audience
11:58:42 are going to want to at some point have lunch or
11:58:46 take a break.
11:58:47 That would be my suggestion.
11:58:49 I move for one more hour until 1:00 and then we
11:58:52 adjourn for lunch.
11:58:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Ms. Montelione,
11:58:56 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:58:58 Any discussion of the motion?
11:58:59 All in favor to extend to 1:00, say aye.
11:59:02 Opposed?
11:59:04 All right.
11:59:05 Ms. Capin.
11:59:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:59:07 You used -- here is the thing, executive order is
11:59:14 not law.
11:59:15 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would agree with you.
11:59:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, here is the thing.
11:59:19 An executive order can be rescinded or altered
11:59:23 without any notice whatsoever to anyone, not the
11:59:26 public and not here at City Council.
11:59:30 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would absolutely agree with
11:59:31 that statement.
11:59:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You would absolutely what?
11:59:34 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would absolutely agree with
11:59:37 that statement.
11:59:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just because there is an executive
11:59:40 order doesn't mean it will exist next year or the
11:59:42 year after.
11:59:43 It can be rescinded.
11:59:45 Where an ordinance doesn't -- that is something
11:59:47 that has to be done publicly.
11:59:50 This is not public.
11:59:51 This -- I want to hear opinion of our attorney,
11:59:58 but I'm going to tell you what is happening here
12:00:06 today.
12:00:06 It is really important for this Council --
12:00:10 important that's what we do.
12:00:14 That's our job.
12:00:15 You use the example of code enforcement ordinance,
12:00:18 and that he would have the executive power to
12:00:21 enforce that.
12:00:22 What he's enforcing is an ordinance that we put in
12:00:26 place, that this body put in place.
12:00:31 Now, a separate ordinance would not necessarily
12:00:40 undo his.
12:00:42 He can have the executive order, and we have an
12:00:45 ordinance and then that ordinance needs to be
12:00:48 either vetoed or signed and then come back, but we
12:00:55 absolutely, the obligation -- what we're doing
12:01:00 here is clarifying representative government.
12:01:06 If we do not have this discussion, we're depriving
12:01:09 the people of what they voted for.
12:01:20 >>JULIA MANDELL: If I may speak -- I've been
12:01:28 around a long time, as you all know.
12:01:30 I've been with the City 11 years.
12:01:34 I have spent most of my career with the City
12:01:34 working directly with City Council on legislative
12:01:38 matters and on zoning matters.
12:01:40 Two years ago, I was appointed the City Attorney,
12:01:43 and my role did change.
12:01:46 My role is to represent the entire City of Tampa
12:01:50 corporate entity.
12:01:51 I take that role very seriously.
12:01:53 I'm sitting in this room and I hear the emotion in
12:01:56 this room, and I do not suggest on any level that
12:01:59 the emotion in this room isn't real or isn't a
12:02:03 fair representation of what people see that they
12:02:07 want to have changed.
12:02:08 However, my role as City Attorney, which really
12:02:12 isn't that dissimilar to my role when I was in
12:02:15 zoning hearings with many of you, is to tell you
12:02:18 what I see the law says, what I see your authority
12:02:21 is, and now it's to tell more where I see the
12:02:24 Mayor's authority is under the charter as well as
12:02:27 department heads, as well as all employees.
12:02:29 So I can only tell you, as I have in my memo,
12:02:33 where the role and the authority of the Mayor is
12:02:38 to execute any form of action, and in this
12:02:41 instance, the type of action that he has executed
12:02:44 falls squarely within thinks authority under the
12:02:46 charter.
12:02:47 The second question becomes, and that's what we're
12:02:51 talking about today, what is City Council's
12:02:52 authority, what is their role, and what is it they
12:02:56 can adopt either through a legislative act and
12:02:59 ordinance or through an administrative act, which
12:03:01 would be a resolution?
12:03:03 I set that forth in the memo.
12:03:05 It is my opinion, and I have stated this, that you
12:03:07 have the absolute authority under the charter to
12:03:12 set forth a board, which is advisory to you.
12:03:17 I do also want to talk about the subpoena power
12:03:20 issue because I did not spend a lot of time on
12:03:22 that in my memo and I think it is an important
12:03:24 issue for everybody.
12:03:25 And that has been done in the past.
12:03:27 It has typically been done by resolution for an
12:03:32 advisory board.
12:03:33 The budget advisory board is a perfect example, as
12:03:35 I have stated.
12:03:36 And if that's something City Council wants to
12:03:38 continue to have conversations about and direct me
12:03:41 to look at those issues or draft something for
12:03:43 you, that's what my job is.
12:03:45 I'm here to do that.
12:03:46 But I can only tell you that which is your
12:03:49 authority and City Council can only delegate the
12:03:53 authority that it actually has just as the Mayor
12:03:55 can only delegate the authority that the Mayor
12:03:58 actually has.
12:04:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here is my question.
12:04:02 We received your opinion five minutes into the
12:04:09 press conference.
12:04:10 Why wasn't that opinion brought to us before?
12:04:13 Why didn't we have an opportunity to look at the
12:04:19 questions.
12:04:19 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you see the opinion.
12:04:21 It actually went to both the Mayor and chair as
12:04:25 City Council as an item together.
12:04:28 Why I did it that way is because you were asking
12:04:31 as a board for me to be responsive today as to
12:04:35 this issue.
12:04:36 And I was being asked by the administration a very
12:04:39 similar question.
12:04:40 So I will say that it was submitted as part of the
12:04:44 fact that typically we submit our memos the Friday
12:04:47 before.
12:04:48 The timing of it was the timing of it.
12:04:50 I would also suggest to you that I did not receive
12:04:53 Mr. Shelby's memo until 4:00 last night and I like
12:04:56 to give a little more courtesy than that because I
12:04:58 needed time to be able to analyze the issues.
12:05:01 I would say to you, if you would like to typically
12:05:03 have more time on when you get legal memorandums
12:05:06 from the City Attorney's office, I would ask for
12:05:08 you to ask me for additional -- to be brought
12:05:15 sooner.
12:05:15 The Friday before the Thursday meeting has been
12:05:17 typical.
12:05:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
12:05:18 That's very fine.
12:05:19 Then how did the Mayor know to have this press
12:05:21 conference to introduce this executive -- I have
12:05:25 the power, how did he know that?
12:05:29 >>JULIA MANDELL: Because he asked me the same
12:05:31 question that you all were asking me.
12:05:33 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Only you answered his and not
12:05:34 ours.
12:05:35 >>JULIA MANDELL: No, I actually answered yours.
12:05:37 I included him on the memo so that you could see
12:05:39 the same opinion was going to everybody.
12:05:42 As my client --
12:05:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: He knew -- he called a press
12:05:46 conference, and it was out on Monday for Friday,
12:05:54 and the press conference, how --
12:05:56 >>JULIA MANDELL: Let me take a step back.
12:05:58 You did not ask me for a written legal opinion.
12:06:00 I chose to provide one.
12:06:02 Here, there is not a request for a written legal
12:06:04 opinion.
12:06:05 Second of all, there's not.
12:06:09 Second of all, I actually had some conversations
12:06:12 ahead of time with City Council attorney prior to
12:06:16 me issuing anything, prior to me answering
12:06:19 anything, and he assured me he was bringing that
12:06:22 information to you.
12:06:22 As to what my position was.
12:06:26 So I think I'm a little confused why all of a
12:06:31 sudden this has become an issue because of the
12:06:34 timing of it.
12:06:34 When I answered the question that was asked of me,
12:06:37 I put it in writing which I was not required to do
12:06:40 or requested to do.
12:06:41 I chose to give it to everyone all at the same
12:06:43 time.
12:06:44 The Mayor has every right to ask me verbally what
12:06:47 my opinion is just like you all do individually,
12:06:49 and I have been -- I have never not responded when
12:06:52 I have been asked those kinds of questions.
12:06:56 I made the decision as the City Attorney to submit
12:06:58 this to everybody in a clear way so that everybody
12:07:01 understood what my position is.
12:07:04 He did not need me to put it in writing to him
12:07:06 prior to him issuing his executive order.
12:07:10 He could have relied on my verbal advice to him.
12:07:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We didn't get the verbal advice,
12:07:20 but let's move on.
12:07:21 I'm done with this question for now.
12:07:26 >>JULIA MANDELL: I did want to respond to and I
12:07:29 think it is an important question, the question of
12:07:31 subpoena power.
12:07:32 That is not something I spent a lot of time
12:07:34 addressing in the memo.
12:07:35 It is addressed but I did not address it very
12:07:39 extensively.
12:07:39 Since that could become a very, very significant
12:07:41 issue that I've heard today and I've been hearing
12:07:43 over the last few weeks, I thought it would be
12:07:46 appropriate for me to respond to that.
12:07:48 The opportunity for any municipality to have any
12:07:54 form of subpoena power, it is very extraordinary
12:07:58 in the law.
12:07:59 It is typically a judicial remedy.
12:08:02 There is the ability for municipalities to have
12:08:05 subpoena power.
12:08:06 But it needs to be derived not by an ordinance
12:08:10 created by a legislative body.
12:08:13 It is very clear in the law that that is not an
12:08:15 acceptable way to grant subpoena power.
12:08:18 For it to be delegated to a separate body or
12:08:21 granted unto itself.
12:08:23 It either has to come through a charter enactment
12:08:25 or federal law, state law or some kind of general
12:08:31 act -- special act of the legislature.
12:08:32 I apologize.
12:08:34 There is case law directly on point on that.
12:08:36 In fact, case law directly on point as it relates
12:08:39 to the creation of a civilian review board, police
12:08:42 review board.
12:08:43 I have heard many of the people who have been
12:08:45 involved in the conversation cite to the city of
12:08:49 Miami.
12:08:50 It is a very interesting example.
12:08:52 The City of Miami was involved in litigation under
12:08:57 which it had created a citizen police review board
12:09:00 via resolution granting subpoena power that in a
12:09:06 very specific way listed in their charter in a
12:09:12 manner very similar to the way you have subpoena
12:09:14 power within your charter.
12:09:15 The language is virtually identical.
12:09:21 That board was set up.
12:09:22 A police officer was subpoenaed.
12:09:24 The police officers challenged that subpoena.
12:09:26 The third district court found that the provision
12:09:31 in the charter, which allowed for limited
12:09:34 investigatory subpoena power could not be utilized
12:09:39 or delegated to the standing civilian police
12:09:43 review board.
12:09:44 The city of Miami ultimately amended their charter
12:09:48 and provided not only for the creation of a
12:09:52 civilian police review board, but also provided
12:09:54 for that subpoena power.
12:09:56 A second case was brought after that charter
12:09:58 change occurred, and after the ordinance was
12:10:01 amended to provide for that.
12:10:02 The third district court of appeals, who heard it
12:10:06 again after a police officer challenged it, said,
12:10:09 yes, this was the proper mechanism under which
12:10:11 that subpoena power could be delegated.
12:10:13 Within your charter, there is no authority for
12:10:16 City Council, nor is there authority for the Mayor
12:10:19 to have this kind of subpoena power, nor is there
12:10:23 any way for that to be delegated.
12:10:25 That is very clear within the law.
12:10:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
12:10:28 I'm going to ask you with each response to shorten
12:10:35 your responses so everybody can get a chance to go
12:10:38 around and we can get out of here with this
12:10:40 subject by 1:00.
12:10:42 Mr. Miranda.
12:10:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:10:44 Chairman, what I see here happening, makes no
12:10:47 difference who the Mayor is.
12:10:48 Makes no difference who the Council members are.
12:10:52 We're looking to change the charter without
12:10:54 changing the charter.
12:10:55 In other words, in order to change the charter,
12:10:56 the public has to take a vote and it's happened
12:11:00 various times in the City of Tampa.
12:11:02 So whoever the Mayor is issues an executive order.
12:11:05 And, by the way, this ain't the first Mayor that's
12:11:07 issued an executive order.
12:11:09 There have been others on different subject
12:11:11 matters.
12:11:11 So this Council or other councils in the future
12:11:15 don't like it, so they write an ordinance to
12:11:17 supersede that subpoena power.
12:11:20 In essence that's what they are doing.
12:11:21 That is then rejected by the person who sits in
12:11:26 the Mayor's office.
12:11:26 Comes back to that City Council and needs 5-2
12:11:30 vote, supermajority to pass that.
12:11:32 Let's say it happens.
12:11:34 What you've got is another chaos instead of
12:11:37 reality.
12:11:38 In essence, what you're doing without letting the
12:11:40 public -- this is the important part -- the
12:11:42 charter is not the one -- the constitution.
12:11:46 Not greater.
12:11:46 Not smaller, but it's equal to the constitution of
12:11:50 the way this country governs itself.
12:11:52 So then we're changing the constitution of the
12:11:55 city, still called the charter, without the public
12:11:59 having a right to vote.
12:12:01 That's my take on it.
12:12:02 That's what I've heard so far, so I have no one,
12:12:05 and I'll bring it up.
12:12:07 If you want to change something, change the
12:12:08 charter.
12:12:09 If you want to change from a strong Mayor form of
12:12:14 government, then change it to something else or
12:12:17 try to change it to somebody else because the
12:12:19 public is entitled to vote.
12:12:21 What's happening here goes back to we only have
12:12:24 one President of the United States of America.
12:12:27 Thank God we do.
12:12:28 We've only got one governor.
12:12:31 Only got one Mayor.
12:12:34 We have many opinions.
12:12:38 But at the end of the day, it rests with those
12:12:42 individuals that were elected to that higher
12:12:44 office to make a decision.
12:12:45 I can't tell you if it's the right decision or the
12:12:49 wrong decision, but at least that person made a
12:12:51 decision and you have responsible people being
12:12:53 looked at for what they did, rightly or wrongly.
12:12:57 They hold that to their hands.
12:13:00 What we're doing here in some form or fashion,
12:13:03 maybe I'm wrong, is saying no.
12:13:08 We want to have two city attorneys.
12:13:10 That's what I see, instead of one.
12:13:14 Because I see more interaction than I've ever seen
12:13:18 before.
12:13:18 It used to be prior to 2008, before the charter
12:13:22 was changed, that the City Council attorney was an
12:13:25 assistant City Attorney.
12:13:26 Had no problems ever.
12:13:29 Now you go back and you start having, I have the
12:13:33 right to do this, the Council has the right to do
12:13:35 that.
12:13:36 There are two interpretations of the charter,
12:13:38 there should only be one because it says that the
12:13:40 City Attorney is the only one that can issue those
12:13:44 opinions, not the City Council attorney.
12:13:46 So we're getting more and more into changing the
12:13:49 charter without changing the charter by a vote
12:13:53 than ever before.
12:13:54 I don't like to see this city fall apart.
12:13:57 I see the unraveling of a baseball that one of the
12:14:04 seams on it is not quite perfect.
12:14:06 Nobody is behind anytime this Mayor or any other
12:14:13 Mayor.
12:14:13 If I have to tell them to go to hell, I go tell
12:14:16 them personally and I've done that before in
12:14:18 different areas with different mayors.
12:14:20 If you want to change the charter then change it.
12:14:25 Put it down and let the public vote on it, but
12:14:28 don't kill it to death.
12:14:29 Don't kill this city by doing what we're I think
12:14:32 we're starting to do.
12:14:34 Little interaction squabbles.
12:14:35 Somebody wants to -- there is an election coming
12:14:37 up in three and a half years.
12:14:40 God bless you.
12:14:41 Go do it.
12:14:41 And see what happens when you get elected.
12:14:46 Somebody will get elected.
12:14:47 So whether it's this Mayor or another Mayor, it's
12:14:54 about getting it done right.
12:14:57 The only way you'll get it done right is change
12:14:59 the charter and take it to the people.
12:15:01 Start squabbling, hey, not entitled to this.
12:15:04 That person, whoever it is, entitled to do a lot
12:15:08 more than we are.
12:15:09 We are legislative and they are administrative.
12:15:12 You have to work in concert, and you have to
12:15:15 understand that that music must come out perfect,
12:15:19 not sharp and not flat, but on level so that all
12:15:22 the public gets a right to state their vote.
12:15:26 Again, if we want to mess around with the charter,
12:15:29 then let's change it.
12:15:30 Stop talking about it.
12:15:32 Face the facts and go do it.
12:15:33 Stop making this city look bad.
12:15:38 Stop making this city look something it ain't.
12:15:41 To me, it's one of the greatest cities in the
12:15:43 world.
12:15:43 Maybe I'm a little exaggerated.
12:15:46 But you know what?
12:15:48 I lived this city all my life and the only reason
12:15:53 I live here because I think it's the best city
12:15:55 around.
12:15:56 There are a lot of cities I could go to.
12:15:59 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:16:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
12:16:00 We'll have comment from Mr. Cohen and then I think
12:16:08 once I make a few comments, I'm going to also make
12:16:13 a comment you can't consider two masters at one
12:16:16 time, and that's what we've got here.
12:16:18 Mr. Cohen.
12:16:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
12:16:22 Thank you for your comment at the beginning of the
12:16:27 meeting.
12:16:28 There is a lot of emotion on this dais.
12:16:30 There's a lot of emotion in the audience.
12:16:32 And these matters are not personal.
12:16:34 They are the business that we are put here to do.
12:16:38 I wanted to just start by quoting myself from the
12:16:43 last meeting that we had, a line that actually I'm
12:16:48 quoting it from the Tampa Bay times.
12:16:51 What it was that I said was, if we can come up
12:16:53 with a model that we all agree works, I think it
12:16:56 is incumbent on the Mayor and us to work together
12:16:58 under the terms of the charter to put the best
12:17:01 type of committee forward and not worry about
12:17:03 whose power it is to do it.
12:17:06 And the reason that I said that is because where I
12:17:11 see us going is a two-way power struggle between
12:17:18 us and the Mayor, and my concern is that in losing
12:17:21 that struggle, we will ultimately undermine what
12:17:24 it is the public asked us to do.
12:17:27 What I said again in our last meeting, what I
12:17:32 heard this morning is not just that people want a
12:17:35 committee.
12:17:35 They want a committee that actually makes a
12:17:37 difference, that actually has the ability to
12:17:39 foster dialogue, to be real.
12:17:40 People have come up to me in the community
12:17:43 recently and said, don't just create something
12:17:46 that's window dressing.
12:17:48 Create something real.
12:17:49 Well, under the terms of the charter, one thing is
12:17:52 for sure.
12:17:53 If we create a body -- and, by the way, I don't
12:17:58 see a conflict with what Mr. Shelby said and what
12:18:01 Ms. Mandell said.
12:18:02 In fact, we absolutely have the right to create by
12:18:05 ordinance an advisory committee.
12:18:07 But the question is, what does advisory mean and
12:18:11 who is it advising?
12:18:14 The problem here is that if we create something,
12:18:19 even advisory in nature, without cooperating at
12:18:22 all with the Mayor in doing it.
12:18:24 And let me just say this.
12:18:29 Obviously the Council was affronted by the fact
12:18:31 that the Mayor called a preemptive strike had a
12:18:34 preemptive press conference to announce the
12:18:37 formation of the board prior to us having this
12:18:40 meeting.
12:18:41 Granted that that was something that caused some
12:18:44 consternation among some of the Council members.
12:18:47 But the fact of the matter is -- the fact of the
12:18:49 matter is, if we insist on doing something that is
12:18:52 totally at odds with what he wants, under the
12:18:55 charter, he has the power not to cooperate with
12:18:57 it.
12:18:58 And at the end of the day, it will get us nowhere.
12:19:02 I'm looking at the charter itself, and it says the
12:19:06 Mayor, and this is exactly why I thought getting
12:19:09 into this matter was counterproductive.
12:19:15 Exercises direct control and supervision over all
12:19:20 departments and divisions of the municipal
12:19:22 government.
12:19:22 If a committee is put in place to advise him, it's
12:19:27 totally within his discretion whether or not he's
12:19:29 going to cooperate and listen to that committee or
12:19:31 not.
12:19:31 At least with the proposal that he put on the
12:19:36 table, there is an implication that he is going to
12:19:41 actually listen to what it says, and he's given
12:19:44 us -- and according to him, he doesn't have to
12:19:47 give us the two, two appointments to it.
12:19:51 You know, Ms. Patti, when she was speaking, said
12:19:57 if you don't have the power to create what it is
12:20:01 you're asking us to create, tell us the truth.
12:20:03 I think it's less about whether or not we have the
12:20:08 power to create something than whether or not we
12:20:10 can work toward creating something that is
12:20:13 effective.
12:20:13 And something that is effective has to involve
12:20:16 everybody.
12:20:18 It can't just be what we want.
12:20:20 It can't just be what the Mayor wants.
12:20:23 It has to be a collective effort.
12:20:25 We have a relatively new chief of police.
12:20:28 He is grappling with difficult problems where
12:20:32 there is a national conversation about these
12:20:34 issues that is going on in this country and that
12:20:37 is definitely rooted in real anxiety, fear, and
12:20:43 issues in our communities.
12:20:45 We also have a situation in the country that was
12:20:47 alluded to also by one of the speakers today where
12:20:50 we have law enforcement personnel being gunned
12:20:52 down twice this week in this country, basically
12:20:57 assassination style.
12:20:57 So there are really an awful lot of issues that
12:21:02 are in the backdrop of this matter.
12:21:06 To me, the only way that we're going to create a
12:21:11 real committee with teeth is to work together.
12:21:14 I think that if we go down separate roads from the
12:21:16 Mayor, we will either be tied up in litigation or
12:21:19 we will end up creating things that don't have the
12:21:22 effect that we desire.
12:21:24 So, you know, I am, quite frankly, I would like to
12:21:30 appoint the two members as a body to the Mayor's
12:21:33 proposed committee, and I will tell you, if he
12:21:36 makes his appointments first before we were to
12:21:39 make ours, we could give a lot of scrutiny to
12:21:43 making sure that our appointments did round out
12:21:47 and reflect the diversity of the community.
12:21:49 I've heard a lot of denunciation of his power to
12:21:53 appoint, but we don't even know who would
12:21:55 necessarily be appointed to it.
12:21:56 So, you know, I understand the Council members'
12:22:00 frustration in having asked for this and being
12:22:03 preempted by the Mayor.
12:22:05 I get that.
12:22:06 But at the same time, I don't think the substance
12:22:08 of what he's proposing, particularly given the
12:22:11 charter limitations, is not something we can work
12:22:14 with.
12:22:14 I just wanted to end by saying one last thing.
12:22:18 I saw the proposal that was put forward this
12:22:23 morning, and I have it here in front of me.
12:22:26 Here it is right here.
12:22:27 The justice accountability democracy Tampa for
12:22:30 justice civilian police review board proposal.
12:22:32 And I will tell you that there's plenty of good
12:22:35 stuff in here, but much of it is preemptive by
12:22:39 state law.
12:22:40 There is a state law that specifically proscribes
12:22:44 the way that police conduct shall be investigated
12:22:47 in the State of Florida.
12:22:48 So that entire matter is governed by state law.
12:22:55 Some of the other things mentioned in here,
12:22:56 particularly number 9, resources, independent
12:22:58 attorney, independent investigators,
12:23:00 administrative staff, funding, how are those
12:23:03 things going to exist if the Mayor is not
12:23:06 cooperating with us in the formation of this
12:23:08 thing.
12:23:09 We all know for a fact that we can pass anything
12:23:13 we want in the budget, but ultimately it is the
12:23:16 Mayor's administrative power whether to spend that
12:23:21 money, how to ultimately administer the city, and
12:23:24 he's backed up by the charter in exercising that
12:23:26 power.
12:23:29 So I would close by saying that for different
12:23:33 reasons but ultimately I came to the conclusion
12:23:35 and I believe Councilman Reddick and Capin and
12:23:40 some of the others have already initiated the
12:23:41 process of finding out what is necessary to have a
12:23:44 charter amendment.
12:23:44 I think that is the correct -- if you really want
12:23:47 the Council to be in charge of creating something
12:23:50 that does anything more than give advice, which
12:23:53 may or may not be listened to, you have to have a
12:23:56 charter change.
12:23:58 If not, there has to be cooperation between the
12:24:00 Mayor and the Council.
12:24:02 We cannot be at odds with one another or the whole
12:24:05 matter is going to be ineffective.
12:24:06 So that is my view on it.
12:24:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
12:24:11 Anyone who hasn't spoken, wish to speak?
12:24:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: May I add one thing to the
12:24:26 conversation?
12:24:26 Mr. Cohen had referenced cooperating with the
12:24:32 Mayor's proposal, and let me just outline very
12:24:36 succinctly the problems I have with the Mayor's
12:24:40 proposal and wait until we get the St. Petersburg
12:24:45 information back.
12:24:47 But with an 11-member board, two alternates, so
12:24:52 that means the Mayor is appointing nine, the
12:24:56 Council is appointing two.
12:24:57 So I would assume the Council itself would decide
12:25:03 who the alternates are, because it seems a little
12:25:07 prescribed that there would be nine active members
12:25:10 works to alternates.
12:25:10 The Mayor appoints nine and we choose two.
12:25:15 That question would have to be answered for me?
12:25:19 Are we choosing the alternates or are we choosing
12:25:21 two of the permanent members?
12:25:26 >>JULIA MANDELL: Chief Ward was available to
12:25:28 answer that --
12:25:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Let me tell you the other
12:25:31 issues I have.
12:25:32 The other issue is that there are -- serving
12:25:36 four-year terms, which would more or less coincide
12:25:40 with the four-year term of the Mayor, so whichever
12:25:44 Mayor is going to come in will have those nine
12:25:47 appointment and is able to choose who those nine
12:25:52 people are.
12:25:53 So whichever Mayor is then elected will have the
12:25:57 control of that board.
12:25:59 As I said earlier in this conversation, 25 years
12:26:03 from now, when this was still on the books,
12:26:06 hopefully the executive order isn't just abandoned
12:26:09 as Ms. Capin pointed out earlier.
12:26:11 We don't know how that -- how those appointments
12:26:18 are going to be doled out.
12:26:20 By having the Council appoint more members, you've
12:26:26 got seven different voices, you've got four
12:26:29 different distinct areas of the community
12:26:31 represented in addition to the citywide
12:26:33 individual.
12:26:34 You at least take out some of the risk factor that
12:26:38 this is going to be a homogeneous board, and
12:26:43 you'll have a variety of opinions represented.
12:26:45 I have discussed not publicly before but in
12:26:51 discussions with others, that I have a hard time
12:26:58 understanding why all seven Council members and
12:27:00 the Mayor are elected at the same time.
12:27:04 Potentially, you have a complete turnover, if
12:27:06 nobody runs for office for a second term or nobody
12:27:09 changes seats, like just happened with councilman
12:27:13 Miranda and councilman Maniscalco, you have
12:27:16 potential for entire turnover of government in one
12:27:19 election.
12:27:20 And if I have a problem with us doing that, I
12:27:22 certainly have a problem with the review board
12:27:24 doing that.
12:27:25 To have four-year terms and not staggered terms, I
12:27:29 also have a problem with.
12:27:31 Those are three basic components I discussed with
12:27:34 you yesterday.
12:27:35 Four-year term, not being staggered, and nine
12:27:39 members appointed by the Mayor and two by us.
12:27:42 Now, that being said, there is one opinion that I
12:27:46 received that was put out to the public on
12:27:50 Facebook, and it's from James Shaw, who is the
12:27:54 chair -- let me get the title right -- also
12:27:57 attorney in private practice but the legal panel
12:28:00 chair the greater Tampa chapter of the ACLU of
12:28:03 Florida.
12:28:04 He states, my examination of the case law leads me
12:28:08 to conclude that the City Council does, in fact,
12:28:10 have the power to create a civilian review board
12:28:12 with subpoena power by ordinance independently of
12:28:15 whether or not the Mayor also has the authority to
12:28:18 create the essentially powerless board he has
12:28:20 created.
12:28:21 Quote, except for those acts expressly prohibited
12:28:24 by statute or by the constitution, municipalities
12:28:26 have the same legislative powers for municipal
12:28:29 purposes.
12:28:30 And then he cites some of the casework D'Agastino
12:28:35 versus Miami, and then he states, Attorney
12:28:37 Mandell's opinion utilizes reasoning rejected by
12:28:41 the third district court of appeal in D'Agastino.
12:28:44 In her memo, she writes, quote, it is the Mayor
12:28:47 who has managerial control over the police
12:28:50 department and by process of elimination that the
12:28:52 City Council does not have such control precludes
12:28:54 it from having any managerial function when it
12:28:57 comes to the city department, closed quote.
12:29:00 Regardless whether that is the right answer, that
12:29:01 is the wrong question.
12:29:03 A civilian review board does not exercise, quote,
12:29:05 managerial control.
12:29:06 Instead it conducts inquiries on behalf of
12:29:09 outsiders to the police department and that
12:29:10 function is neither preempted by state law nor the
12:29:13 city charter.
12:29:14 D'Agastino court rejected a similar argument.
12:29:18 In that case, an officer served with a subpoena by
12:29:20 the Miami CIP argued that the investigative
12:29:23 function was preempted by state law.
12:29:26 Specifically he argued that the police officer's
12:29:27 bill of rights provides the sole method for
12:29:30 investigating police misconduct and that,
12:29:30 therefore, the City of Miami cannot exercise such
12:29:32 power.
12:29:33 Rejecting this, the D'Agastino court explained,
12:29:35 that the CIP was not exercising the power at all.
12:29:39 The court explained that it maintained, quote,
12:29:41 quite comfortable, it remains, quote, quite
12:29:45 comfortable with the observation made not long ago
12:29:47 by another panel of this court that chapter 112
12:29:50 concerns internal investigations conducted by a
12:29:52 police department of its own officers and the
12:29:54 police officers bill of rights sets forth
12:29:57 procedures to be followed by the police department
12:29:58 for interrogation of a law enforcement officer
12:30:01 under investigation by the police department.
12:30:05 The CIP's authority extends to independent
12:30:08 external investigation.
12:30:09 And then he cites the D'Agostino case.
12:30:13 The point is the City Council does not have to --
12:30:16 the City Council does not have to have
12:30:19 preexisting, quote, managerial authority over the
12:30:21 police department to create a civilian review
12:30:24 board with subpoena power because the civilian
12:30:26 review board will not be managing the police
12:30:28 department.
12:30:29 Hiring, firing, granting, denying, so forth.
12:30:32 They will instead be performing independent
12:30:35 external investigations.
12:30:37 It goes on, and I'm not going to read the
12:30:44 entire --
12:30:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me say to you, we also got
12:30:47 that information, so we're familiar with that.
12:30:52 And --
12:30:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The public may not.
12:30:55 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would also say I am not.
12:30:56 He's never contacted my office.
12:30:58 I have never heard from him.
12:30:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: He was doing it independent of
12:31:01 you.
12:31:02 >>JULIA MANDELL: I understand that.
12:31:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: You want to hear from Mr. Shaw,
12:31:08 please call him.
12:31:08 At this moment, let me say this.
12:31:12 Let me say this at this time, when I made the
12:31:19 original motion for the chief to look at
12:31:23 establishing feasibility of establishment of a
12:31:29 citizen review board, the report was to come back.
12:31:33 I also put out a proposal that it was about each
12:31:38 member of the Council appoint a person to serve on
12:31:42 the board as well as two by the Mayor and two by
12:31:46 the police chief.
12:31:47 The Mayor had a chance to cooperate then.
12:31:49 The Mayor chose not to cooperate because when it
12:31:52 came out in the paper the next day, the Mayor
12:31:56 stood out there and made a public comment that
12:31:59 he's the one who can make that choice.
12:32:02 He's the one who appoints.
12:32:04 He was on TV talking about the same thing.
12:32:09 Ms. Mandell, you approached me because you didn't
12:32:13 like the direction I was going and you approached
12:32:15 me after agenda review.
12:32:17 To me, you already had your mind made up.
12:32:19 And, two, let me say this, I personally, when I
12:32:25 say you can't serve two masters, who hire you?
12:32:28 >>JULIA MANDELL: I'm hired by the Mayor and
12:32:30 approved by City Council.
12:32:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
12:32:33 Thank you.
12:32:33 And you think that you're going to be able to --
12:32:38 Mayor come out and make a comment that he has the
12:32:41 power and authority to appoint, you think the
12:32:47 person that hired you, that you're going to go
12:32:52 against the Mayor when you already made one
12:32:54 slip-up, now you already made one slip-up with the
12:32:59 Mayor, caused him to go out and get an outside
12:33:03 attorney.
12:33:06 You weren't about to make a second slip-up.
12:33:10 >>JULIA MANDELL: Whatever remedies --
12:33:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Did I interrupt you when I was
12:33:13 talking to you.
12:33:16 I don't want to you interrupt me.
12:33:17 >>JULIA MANDELL: Fair enough.
12:33:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
12:33:19 Let me make this clear, I personally think you
12:33:23 have done a disservice to this Council.
12:33:26 It's a conflict of interest on your behalf, and
12:33:30 it's hard for any member of this Council to sit
12:33:34 here and judge that and trust what you shared with
12:33:39 us.
12:33:39 Because, let me ask you, how many Council members
12:33:47 did you meet with prior to Friday, this past
12:33:50 Friday?
12:33:52 >>JULIA MANDELL: In terms of what?
12:33:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: In terms of your position?
12:33:56 >>JULIA MANDELL: I think I did speak with
12:33:58 Mr. Suarez because he came to my office.
12:34:01 I had some other conversations with a few of you
12:34:03 prior to this even coming up on City Council
12:34:06 agenda.
12:34:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Did you share your opinion?
12:34:08 >>JULIA MANDELL: Yes, and I shared it with your
12:34:10 City Council attorney.
12:34:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: So your opinion was already
12:34:13 established before the Mayor went to have that
12:34:14 press conference on Friday.
12:34:16 >>JULIA MANDELL: My opinion was established based
12:34:18 upon the original motion that came to Council for
12:34:21 discussion.
12:34:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me tell you how this is a set
12:34:25 plan.
12:34:25 If you check the CCCTV log a week in advance, they
12:34:32 already knew about a press conference.
12:34:35 >>JULIA MANDELL: I'm not going to be able to
12:34:37 respond to that.
12:34:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: I don't care if you respond or
12:34:40 not.
12:34:41 The question is, is this: When I hear people sit
12:34:46 up here and talk about if they are satisfied with
12:34:53 the Mayor appointing nine people and this Council
12:34:59 is two, it basically remind me that we have been a
12:35:04 puppet for the administration.
12:35:07 And I'm past them days of being a puppet.
12:35:11 And I'm tired that we can be embarrassed,
12:35:15 overlooked, overshadowed, disrespectful when the
12:35:21 reporters have to call elected officials to find
12:35:23 out what's going on with a press conference.
12:35:26 Reporters have to call.
12:35:28 I thought you were talking about the storm brewing
12:35:35 in a press conference.
12:35:36 But I'll say this and in due time, because I want
12:35:40 to give Mr. Shelby an opportunity to respond, and
12:35:44 if we have a second round that goes, that will be
12:35:49 fine, but I'm going to stay within the time --
12:35:54 Mr. Shelby, he has about a 15 minute report.
12:35:57 And I would like for him to give his report
12:35:59 without being interrupted.
12:36:01 And when we finish the deliberation, I'll be
12:36:09 prepared to make a motion.
12:36:10 Mr. Shelby, you have the floor.
12:36:47 >>JULIA MANDELL: I apologize.
12:36:48 I would like to receive a copy of whatever is
12:36:50 being given out or the memo from previous.
12:36:53 That's fine.
12:36:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just got mine.
12:36:57 I don't know what they are going to talk about.
12:36:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Shelby, is this the same
12:37:01 thing we received this morning on the dais and
12:37:03 same thing by e-mail from you yesterday or the day
12:37:05 before.
12:37:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
12:37:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Everybody received this.
12:37:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I want to point out
12:37:21 and do I apologize to the City Council, the delay
12:37:24 in getting you this memo.
12:37:25 You got it the same time as Ms. Mandell did.
12:37:28
12:37:34 But let me do say that this morning I did forward
12:37:40 a substitute memo which you have before you now.
12:37:43 And the difference is a minor typo, and I added a
12:37:48 Supreme Court case in support of my position that
12:37:50 I had accidentally omitted.
12:37:52 So I would ask the council please to receive and
12:37:55 file the substitute by motion, please.
12:37:56 >> So moved.
12:37:58 >> Second.
12:38:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: (off microphone) Motion by Mr.
12:38:01 Suarez, seconded by Ms. Capin. All in favor?
12:38:01 Opposed?
12:38:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And, Mr. Chairman, if I can, I
12:38:07 am going to ask for the courtesy of the council to
12:38:10 please refrain from your questions or comments
12:38:12 until I complete my report to you.
12:38:15 Thank you.
12:38:15 >> FRANK REDDICK: (Off microphone)
12:38:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm going to move as quickly as
12:38:23 I can, but I have to share with you, members of
12:38:25 the board, in my years as your City Council
12:38:27 attorney, one of the most significant items, if
12:38:30 not the most significant item dealt with, because
12:38:33 it goes beyond this issue.
12:38:34 And I understand, and I appreciate the fact that
12:38:37 you recognize that.
12:38:39 So please let me begin.
12:38:42 Honorable chairman, members of the City Council,
12:38:46 Martin Shelby, your City Council attorney.
12:38:50 And I am going to read from my memo because I
12:38:52 think it speaks very clearly and succinctly and it
12:38:56 allows the people as well who are watching and
12:38:58 listening to know my position.
12:39:00 I begin by letting you know that I provide this
12:39:02 opinion pursuant to my obligation as City Council
12:39:06 attorney under Section 2.04 of the charter as
12:39:10 directed by motion of City Council.
12:39:13 The power of the City Council under the charter is
12:39:17 succinctly encapsulated in one sentence in Section
12:39:22 2.01.
12:39:25 Quote: There shall be a City Council in which all
12:39:30 legislative power shall be vested.
12:39:33 Period.
12:39:34 End quote.
12:39:36 The Tampa City Council derives its legislative
12:39:39 authority from state statute from chapter 166
12:39:42 Florida statute, otherwise known as the Municipal
12:39:46 Home Rule Powers Act.
12:39:49 And Section 166.02 subsection 3 of Florida statute
12:39:53 states, and I quote: The legislature recognizes
12:39:57 that pursuant to the grant of power set forth in
12:40:01 Section 2-B, Article 8, of the state Constitution,
12:40:05 the legislative body of each municipality has the
12:40:09 power to enact legislation concerning any subject
12:40:13 matter upon which the state legislature may act,
12:40:17 except -- and it lists four.
12:40:20 The subject of annexation, merger and exercise of
12:40:23 extraterritorial power, et cetera.
12:40:25 B. Any subject expressly prohibited by the
12:40:28 Constitution.
12:40:30 C. Any subject expressly preempted to state or
12:40:34 county government by the Constitution, or by
12:40:37 general law.
12:40:38 Or D, any subject preempted to a county pursuant
12:40:42 to a county charter, such as the Hillsborough
12:40:43 County charter.
12:40:46 I point out that the Florida Supreme Court has
12:40:49 judicially affirmed this in its holding of City of
12:40:53 Boca Raton vs. State of Florida, which is found
12:40:53 cited at 595 Southern 2nd 25, a 1992 Florida
12:40:58 Supreme Court case.
12:41:02 Excuse me.
12:41:04 The question in this particular matter is whether
12:41:10 the City Council is prevented by the charter from
12:41:14 passing an ordinance establishing a citizens
12:41:17 police advisory board.
12:41:20 It is my conclusion that nothing in the charter
12:41:25 prevents the City Council from passing an
12:41:27 ordinance that establishes such a board.
12:41:30 Such an interpretation is consistent with the
12:41:34 plain reading of Section 1.04, which I have
12:41:38 highlighted for you in the copy of the charter
12:41:41 that I have provided.
12:41:45 That is a separation of power, and that states,
12:41:48 and I quote, except as otherwise herein expressly
12:41:52 provided, all legislative power shall be vested
12:41:56 and exercised by the City Council.
12:42:01 As stated in Section 2.05, quote: All legislative
12:42:05 powers of the council shall be exercised by
12:42:09 ordinance.
12:42:11 Now, there are limitations on legislative
12:42:13 authority in the charter, but, as I stated just
12:42:17 before, they are to be expressly provided.
12:42:20 And I'll give you two examples, which I believe
12:42:23 you are familiar with.
12:42:25 One is Section 2.04 which requires prior approval
12:42:29 of the mayor for legislative aides' positions and
12:42:33 salaries.
12:42:34 And the other one, which is going to be very
12:42:38 relevant this evening, is Section is 7.07 which
12:42:41 prohibits any City Council initiated budget
12:42:44 changes after the adoption of the annual budget.
12:42:52 Authority for City Council to take action, if it
12:42:55 so chooses, is unambiguously stated in the charter
12:42:58 by Article 5, departments, Section 5.03,
12:43:04 additional duties.
12:43:05 And I have taken the liberty of taking out the
12:43:09 clause involving the mayor in there, and replaced
12:43:12 by ellipses, dot-dot-dot.
12:43:19 It reads as follows, and I quote: Each of the
12:43:20 foregoing officers shall perform such other duties
12:43:23 as shall be directed by the council by ordinance
12:43:28 in furtherance of their legislative function. End
12:43:31 quote.
12:43:32 And I bring to your attention that the chief of
12:43:34 police is specifically identified as one of those
12:43:37 foregoing officers in Section 5.01-D.
12:43:43 Now, the Florida Supreme Court has held, quote,
12:43:46 the plain reading of statutory language is the
12:43:48 first consideration of statutory construction.
12:43:53 That's cited in State versus Branford, 787
12:43:56 Southern 2nd 811, at 817, a 2001 Florida Supreme
12:44:01 Court case which quotes Capers versus State at 678
12:44:05 Southern 2nd 330 at page 332 which is a 1996
12:44:09 Florida Supreme Court case.
12:44:13 Quote: When the statute is clear and unambiguous,
12:44:18 courts will not look behind the statute's plain
12:44:21 language for legislative intent or resort to rules
12:44:23 of statutory construction to ascertain intent.
12:44:26 End quote.
12:44:29 That is from Daniels versus Florida Department of
12:44:31 Health at 898 Southern 2nd 61, at page 64, a 2005
12:44:37 Florida Supreme Court case.
12:44:38 And finally, the Supreme Court says this in PR
12:44:44 versus State at 677 Southern 2nd 270, at page 271,
12:44:49 a 1996 case.
12:44:51 Quote: Where the language of the statute is plain
12:44:53 and unambiguous, there is no need for judicial
12:44:57 interpretation. End quote.
12:45:00 Now, members of the City Council, one need only
12:45:04 look to your code of ordinances, for example, an
12:45:07 ordinance enacted by City Council that exert
12:45:11 authority over departments and employees, and I
12:45:13 would like to share a few examples.
12:45:15 Section 2-46, duties of departments.
12:45:18 Section 2-116, transmittal of the annual budget
12:45:21 supplement.
12:45:22 Section 2-500 and what follows, the City of
12:45:25 Tampa's ethics code.
12:45:28 Section 2-1 and what follows, the City of Tampa's
12:45:33 human rights ordinance.
12:45:35 Section 2-128 and what follows, the criminal
12:45:40 history screening practices, which I'm sure you
12:45:42 are all familiar because it's otherwise known as
12:45:44 "ban the box."
12:45:47 And that's a situation where you directly,
12:45:49 specifically made -- imposed a duty on the HR
12:45:53 department.
12:45:54 And finally, Section 26.5-1, what follows the
12:45:59 equal business opportunity program.
12:46:04 Members of council, ordinances have also created
12:46:07 boards and commissions that exert authority and
12:46:10 create duties for city departments and employees.
12:46:13 For example, Section 2-650, the City of Tampa's
12:46:18 ethics commission.
12:46:19 Section 4-26 and what follows, the Public Art
12:46:22 Committee.
12:46:24 Section 12-5, Human Rights Board.
12:46:28 And Section 26.5-208, the Equal Business
12:46:33 Opportunity Advisory Committee, which,
12:46:37 incidentally, by the way, began as an executive
12:46:40 order and was ultimately converted to an ordinance
12:46:43 that is now on your books.
12:46:49 Based on my research and analysis, City Council
12:46:52 has two options.
12:46:54 One, it can move forward if it so chooses with a
12:46:58 process of creating a carefully crafted ordinance.
12:47:03 Two, City Council can make a public policy
12:47:08 decision to not take legislative action.
12:47:14 That is also City Council's prerogative, but not
12:47:17 because it can't legally, but because it chooses
12:47:21 not to.
12:47:24 It is my opinion that the wording of this charter
12:47:29 affords the citizens of Tampa the same rights to
12:47:32 full home rule legislative authority and true
12:47:35 representative government that every citizen of
12:47:37 every other city throughout this state enjoys
12:47:40 under chapter 166 of Florida statutes.
12:47:45 Members of City Council, it's a logical fallacy to
12:47:52 believe that a strong mayor must equal a weak City
12:48:00 Council.
12:48:00 It's just not true.
12:48:01 The power under your charter is not a portion --
12:48:07 it is not a balance of power, it is a separation
12:48:09 of power.
12:48:13 You can have a strong mayor and a strong City
12:48:18 Council, which working together creates a strong
12:48:23 representative government.
12:48:27 Which creates a strong citizenry; which creates a
12:48:32 strong city.
12:48:33 That's my opinion.
12:48:35 And I stand by it.
12:48:37 Thank you.
12:48:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
12:48:42 Ms. Capin.
12:48:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
12:48:48 This is exactly the reason that we have our own
12:48:58 City Council attorney, and it is for that very
12:48:59 reason.
12:49:00 I want to ask that the rules of conflict of
12:49:03 interest -- do you have those available?
12:49:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that something you are
12:49:10 requesting?
12:49:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to hear it.
12:49:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that Council's pleasure?
12:49:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, you want me to make that as
12:49:21 a motion?
12:49:23 Okay.
12:49:23 I'm requesting it.
12:49:39 >> JULIA MANDELL: I think at this point, given
12:49:40 the tenor of your conversation, it would be
12:49:43 appropriate for me to make the following
12:49:43 suggestion. Continue this item.
12:49:45 I will obtain through my office an outside legal
12:49:48 opinion on both my conflict of interest that has
12:49:50 been presented by Mr. Shelby and generalized
12:49:54 conflict of interest on this issue.
12:49:55 To take this conversation any further not only
12:49:58 puts the office, my entire office at risk, because
12:50:02 any conflict that I have, they have as well, and I
12:50:08 do not want to have other opinions given by
12:50:11 attorneys in my office tainted by the conversation
12:50:15 that could go on at this point in time.
12:50:17 So I am respectfully requesting this should be
12:50:21 continued so that I can obtain outside legal
12:50:24 opinion on what the conflict of interest for the
12:50:27 city attorney's office is.
12:50:28 Thank you.
12:50:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
12:50:31 I still want to hear the rules of conflict of
12:50:33 interest.
12:50:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:50:35 As you well know, I stated earlier how this is
12:50:37 going to end.
12:50:38 I smelled it was going to happen this way.
12:50:41 It is happening this way.
12:50:42 Exactly what I said.
12:50:44 But I am going to go further because that's how I
12:50:46 am.
12:50:47 Last week Mr. Shelby asked me if I wanted to meet
12:50:49 with him to talk about the charter.
12:50:51 What did I tell you?
12:50:55 >> Your exact words to me, sir, and I did write
12:50:57 them down, were: Tell them I don't want to meet
12:51:00 with you.
12:51:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, no, you asked me right
12:51:02 here face to face, sir.
12:51:04 I don't want to listen to that. I told you I
12:51:05 don't want to meet with you, that I can read it
12:51:09 and understand it by myself.
12:51:10 Am I correct or not?
12:51:12 >> If I can.
12:51:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, you write it down.
12:51:15 I don't write nothing down.
12:51:19 Let me go further.
12:51:21 Let me go further.
12:51:22 Because I don't appreciate -- and I told him
12:51:26 before, and, in fact, I almost fired twice when I
12:51:30 was chairman.
12:51:31 I called him in the office twice and I told him,
12:51:35 Be an attorney, don't be a council member, don't
12:51:37 go -- whether the conversation was about the text
12:51:43 or not, I didn't care. It looks bad to the public
12:51:45 when every time somebody is going to say anything
12:51:46 he gets up and -- I don't know what they are
12:51:49 saying.
12:51:50 The public doesn't know what he's saying.
12:51:52 No one knows what he's saying.
12:51:53 So that myself is a conflict of interest.
12:51:55 When you work for the council you work for the
12:51:57 seven of us, not individual ones.
12:51:59 When you go meet -- and I don't want to meet with
12:52:03 you because I don't like anything in secrecy.
12:52:05 You meet with each other council member, I don't
12:52:07 know what you tell them.
12:52:08 And I don't care to know what you tell them.
12:52:10 But I think myself it's a conflict of interest.
12:52:13 When I was sick and dying you brought me a
12:52:15 milkshake.
12:52:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, sir, I recall that.
12:52:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You didn't bring me the
12:52:18 milkshake because you wanted me to drink it.
12:52:23 You brought me the milkshake because you wanted to
12:52:25 tell me what was happening, that the council may
12:52:26 not let me vote by telephone.
12:52:27 I said get the milkshake, get the hell out of the
12:52:31 house.
12:52:32 Oh, yeah, I remember everything. I don't forget
12:52:33 nothing.
12:52:35 Even when I'm dying I don't forget.
12:52:36 So what I am saying is you were a great actor at
12:52:39 one time.
12:52:39 You say you worked in the plays in New York. You
12:52:39 never did. I don't believe you did because I
12:52:42 didn't see your name nowhere in New York.
12:52:47 In 2002 you were commissioner --
12:52:51 >> MARTIN SHELBY: Excuse me, chairman --
12:52:54 May I -- Mr. Chairman, I take my role here as well
12:52:58 very seriously.
12:52:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So do I.
12:53:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I don't appreciate an attack
12:53:03 by any member of council and I respect -- and by
12:53:05 the way, I respect Mr. Miranda.
12:53:12 I provide him as much information as he requests
12:53:15 from me, and as much information as I am able to
12:53:17 offer him.
12:53:18 And I have spoken with each one of you, and I have
12:53:21 made the offer to talk with each one of you, and
12:53:26 on August 20th of this year, at 6:00 p.m.,
12:53:30 Councilman Miranda said to me regarding the
12:53:33 charter, quote, You can say I refused to meet with
12:53:36 you.
12:53:36 And that's the answer to your question,
12:53:39 Mr. Chairman.
12:53:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, let me just say this.
12:53:42 And I think we have gone the direction more
12:53:46 personal than anything else -- and we have got
12:53:54 more important things to discuss here today than
12:54:01 getting personal, so I hope you all will move
12:54:01 toward that and not personal.
12:54:06 So anything else, Mr. Miranda?
12:54:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I could speak for much
12:54:09 longer than that, Mr. Chairman, but I'll put it
12:54:13 out to the public.
12:54:14 I didn't make this up.
12:54:15 It's part of an interview that was done in 2002.
12:54:18 But I'll bring that later.
12:54:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mrs. Capin.
12:54:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You know, it was stated that this
12:54:25 could go down a slippery slope, and I just heard
12:54:28 it.
12:54:28 I just heard it.
12:54:31 You are our City Council attorney, and you can
12:54:34 talk to us anytime, and nobody has to know what we
12:54:37 talked about.
12:54:39 You are our attorney.
12:54:43 Am I correct?
12:54:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mrs. Capin, let me share with
12:54:51 you that irrespective of what Mr. Miranda's
12:54:57 attempt to smear and destroy my reputation is, let
12:55:03 me share with you that it has been a great
12:55:06 privilege and honor to serve this City Council for
12:55:10 eleven years.
12:55:12 I have served 17 members of the Tampa City
12:55:15 Council.
12:55:17 I take my commitment to each of you very
12:55:20 seriously.
12:55:21 And even with Mr. Miranda, when I prevented him
12:55:25 from about to be voting on what would clearly be,
12:55:27 in my opinion, a conflict of interest, and I had
12:55:33 asked him with some trepidation to stop a meeting
12:55:36 to be able to protect a client who I believed
12:55:40 needed my protection even though he may not have
12:55:44 said he wanted it.
12:55:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Did you write it down?
12:55:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, I have the floor.
12:55:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could just say this.
12:55:50 I am here -- I am here just to provide you the
12:55:53 information which was made as part of a motion
12:55:57 which is my obligation to you under the charter.
12:55:59 That's all I am going to say.
12:56:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
12:56:02 And when council members talk about this going --
12:56:06 being unraveled, I just heard it.
12:56:11 Nobody here did that.
12:56:12 Everybody here is looking at -- and it is very
12:56:15 important.
12:56:15 It is very important what's happening here today.
12:56:19 Because this affects this City Council and future
12:56:22 City Councils.
12:56:22 And, you know, when -- you know, we have to work
12:56:28 with the mayor.
12:56:29 I didn't hear from the mayor and I don't think
12:56:32 anybody else here heard from the mayor on what we
12:56:35 talked about.
12:56:37 Nothing.
12:56:37 So we need to work with the mayor.
12:56:41 Okay.
12:56:42 A strong mayor does not equal a weak City Council,
12:56:46 unless the City Council allows it.
12:56:51 I have been on this City Council five years and I
12:56:53 have seen it time and again.
12:56:58 The power that is exercised -- what the
12:57:04 citizens -- our legislative power has been
12:57:06 undermined.
12:57:09 So I want to say that, because it was stated that
12:57:13 we are unraveling the city.
12:57:16 We are not.
12:57:17 We are actually protecting what -- we are looking
12:57:20 at it and trying to clarify representative
12:57:23 government and not depriving the people of that.
12:57:28 They voted us in.
12:57:29 And we are the legislative body.
12:57:32 Therefore, your opinion is very important to us,
12:57:39 and what transpired with the mayor is also very
12:57:42 important to us.
12:57:45 I want to hear the rules of conflict of interest.
12:57:47 I want to hear it, please.
12:57:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, Mr. Shelby, let me ask you,
12:57:54 the city attorney --
12:57:57 Whoa, whoa, whoa.
12:57:58 I was making -- I was asking a question to our
12:58:02 city attorney -- our Council attorney, and the
12:58:07 question is, she has requested to have an outside
12:58:13 opinion to review.
12:58:16 What is the opinion of our Council?
12:58:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can I ask you where these rules of
12:58:21 conflict of interest come from?
12:58:25 Where did you find them?
12:58:26 Where would you look for them?
12:58:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Those would be the rules that
12:58:30 apply to all attorneys under the Florida rules --
12:58:33 the Florida Bar rules, the rules of professional
12:58:37 conduct.
12:58:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: So the question is on the table,
12:58:42 all right?
12:58:44 The question is on the table.
12:58:49 Mrs. Mandell requested that she should be able to
12:58:53 meet with her legal outside attorney and get
12:58:54 advice about this conflict of interest.
12:58:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.
12:59:04 I believe that she is correct, that ramifications
12:59:10 from this obviously do apply to her entire office,
12:59:15 and it may be ramifications that may come out,
12:59:18 that may have an unintended consequence.
12:59:22 And in that sense, it would be wise to probably
12:59:26 refrain from doing that.
12:59:27 But as to a conflict of interest generally, that
12:59:31 is between you as a client and your attorney.
12:59:36 You are her clients.
12:59:37 And there is a rule that applies specifically to
12:59:42 an attorney who is -- an attorney who has an
12:59:50 organization as a client, and that's rule 4-1.13
12:59:55 of the rules of professional conduct, and
12:59:57 obviously Ms. Mandell is the attorney for the
13:00:01 municipal corporation.
13:00:02 That is her client.
13:00:04 And then that will identify.
13:00:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
13:00:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make it clear.
13:00:14 Are we saying then that we want to investigate the
13:00:16 city attorney for rules of conduct in violation of
13:00:20 client -- I don't know.
13:00:27 I don't know.
13:00:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Respond to the question? Because
13:00:33 you raised the question.
13:00:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, I did raise the question,
13:00:35 because I want to know.
13:00:37 I want to know where we stand on this and how we
13:00:43 were represented.
13:00:45 What was our representation?
13:00:47 And how were we represented in this?
13:00:50 So it's very important to me.
13:00:53 But I will take the recommendation of our City
13:00:56 Council attorney.
13:00:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ultimately, though -- I'm sorry,
13:01:01 Mr. Chairman.
13:01:01 I'm sorry to interrupt.
13:01:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: At this time, we stand at 1:00.
13:01:09 What time would you like to come back?
13:01:12 It's 1:00 now.
13:01:13 >> 2:15.
13:01:18 I'll move for 2:15.
13:01:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: We stand in recess till 2:15.
13:01:22 Thank you.
13:01:23 >> (City Council in recess.)
13:01:30
DISCLAIMER:
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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, September 3, 2015
2:15 p.m. Session
DISCLAIMER:
This file represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software
compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
14:17:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: We are going to call this meeting
14:18:23 back to order.
14:18:24 Roll call.
14:18:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
14:18:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
14:18:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
14:18:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Here.
14:18:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
14:18:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
14:18:35 All right.
14:18:39 Do we have any position or reports or comment from
14:18:44 staff at this time?
14:18:56 I was checking to see if we have any additional
14:18:58 comments from staff.
14:19:01 Any other comments from the legal department?
14:19:02 >>JULIA MANDELL: City attorney.
14:19:08 Just to go back to where the conversation left off
14:19:12 at my suggestion, for an outside legal opinion as
14:19:15 it relates to the Florida Bar rules and conflict
14:19:17 of interest.
14:19:18 One thing I do want to say, and I think also for
14:19:22 the public, so they understand what we are talking
14:19:24 about, in terms of conflict of interest.
14:19:28 We are not talking about a political conflict of
14:19:30 interest and not talking about a voting conflict
14:19:32 of interest.
14:19:33 Than the conflicts of interest being brought up
14:19:35 and why I am requesting a continuance to be able
14:19:37 to deal with them relate to attorneys ethical
14:19:40 obligations under the Florida Bar rules and that's
14:19:43 why I say it's not just a simplistic question in
14:19:46 terms of any ethical obligation I may have, it's
14:19:52 really to our entire office and something that
14:19:54 needs to be looked at very carefully.
14:19:55 So that's my recommendation.
14:19:56 I am going to go ahead and seek that outside
14:20:00 counsel.
14:20:00 I'll ask for 30 days to continue the item in order
14:20:03 to have that conversation.
14:20:04 Because of course I would have to get that person
14:20:08 on board, about all of that.
14:20:13 I do have a couple of people in mind who could be
14:20:16 appropriate attorneys for that, including people
14:20:19 who are involved in Florida Bar issues.
14:20:22 So that's my request.
14:20:23 And I would ask for you to take action on that.
14:20:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
14:20:26 You are requesting a continuance for the conflict
14:20:28 much interest portion?
14:20:30 >> At a minimum the conflict of interest portion.
14:20:32 If you feel you still need to have a conversation
14:20:34 about the rest of it based on that conflict of
14:20:36 interest, if you feel you could separate the two
14:20:40 out with the conflict of interest, that would be
14:20:44 fine.
14:20:44 >> Ms. Montelione.
14:20:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I wouldn't want to continue
14:20:48 the entire conversation.
14:20:49 I would just be in agreement that we continue the
14:20:53 conflict of interest portion of this conversation.
14:20:56 But I think we have a good handle on the rest of
14:21:03 the topic in order to move on and do you want me
14:21:07 to make that in the form of a motion, sir?
14:21:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: If you want to.
14:21:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move that in 30 days the
14:21:13 legal department -- I'm sorry?
14:21:16 October 1st, come back to us at 9:00 a.m. with
14:21:19 a staff report on the hiring of an outside
14:21:22 attorney regarding the conflict of interest
14:21:24 question that has been raised here today.
14:21:26 >>JULIA MANDELL: Thank you.
14:21:28 And for 30 days that's fine.
14:21:29 I just want to let you know in case it's difficult
14:21:33 for me to bring somebody on board that quick I
14:21:35 might ask for an additional --
14:21:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I didn't say for the opinion
14:21:39 to come back, I said for the attorney to be
14:21:41 selected for the --
14:21:45 >>JULIA MANDELL: Well, I will go ahead and work
14:21:48 with Mr. Shelby on choosing someone.
14:21:50 I will try to get you an opinion within 30 days.
14:21:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All right.
14:21:54 I thought you needed more time than that.
14:21:58 >>JULIA MANDELL: I do feel of this is a very
14:21:59 important issue that needs to be resolved.
14:22:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What is the opinion?
14:22:03 Because my opinion is than there's a conflict of
14:22:06 interest and I'm your client.
14:22:07 There's a conflict of interest.
14:22:09 >> No, ma'am, that's not how it works.
14:22:11 This is a determination under Florida bar rules.
14:22:13 So what that means, and how that all works,
14:22:18 because what we are talking about is our ethical
14:22:20 obligations under the Florida bar rules as
14:22:23 attorneys.
14:22:24 It's something that we need to deal with.
14:22:26 So in order to be able to know where our
14:22:31 arrangements are, and to be able to advise you of
14:22:34 that, I need to have that set forth.
14:22:36 And it is something that I am imploring council to
14:22:40 give me that opportunity, because again this is on
14:22:43 this one issue.
14:22:45 It impacts every attorney in the city attorney's
14:22:47 office.
14:22:47 So it's something that in order to be able to
14:22:51 serve you in all capacities, not one individual
14:22:55 issue, it needs to be something that is looked at.
14:22:58 That has now been raised.
14:23:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I revise my motion then to state
14:23:03 that on October 1st, in 30 days, to have the
14:23:06 legal department return to us with the opinion of
14:23:09 an outside attorney to be selected to render an
14:23:15 opinion on the conflict of interest that was
14:23:18 brought up today, and further that the city
14:23:22 attorney and the City Council attorney work
14:23:24 together to select that individual.
14:23:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Does it have to be specific about
14:23:33 where you think the conflict of interest is or no?
14:23:38 I'm wondering about that.
14:23:41 I'm going to ask Mr. Shelby.
14:23:43 >> Can I just finish the statement in?
14:23:47 I personally did read the Florida Bar portion
14:23:50 referring to conflict of interest.
14:23:51 So if you want to reiterate, Mr. Shelby, the
14:23:57 ordinance.
14:23:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually, no.
14:23:59 I think if council wants to have -- to in a what
14:24:03 is being planned, why don't you make a motion, as
14:24:06 a suggestion, to come back, to be able to have the
14:24:10 report on the attorney that she intends to be
14:24:13 selected.
14:24:15 >> That was my first one.
14:24:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not before the opinion is
14:24:19 issued.
14:24:20 To know who your attorney is before -- and I hear
14:24:25 them saying no over there.
14:24:27 So I guess you are asking for an authorization?
14:24:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: My motion was the city
14:24:34 attorney would have 30 days to bring back to us
14:24:37 who the outside attorney was that was chosen.
14:24:40 That was my first motion.
14:24:42 And then I revised it because Ms. Mandell said she
14:24:46 thought she wanted to bring back the opinion in 30
14:24:48 days.
14:24:49 So, I mean, I would take the -- neither one has
14:24:52 gotten a second, so I have made two motions.
14:24:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, let's get clear on what the
14:24:59 legal department is asking.
14:25:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ:
14:25:11 >>SAL TERRITO: We looked at this issue.
14:25:13 Here is why have been we think there isn't going
14:25:16 to be a conflict.
14:25:17 It isn't going to be mine or Marty's opinion.
14:25:21 All that Mrs. Mandell was doing was your asking
14:25:24 her to look at the charter, see what her authority
14:25:27 was under the charter.
14:25:28 She was giving you have an opinion on what the
14:25:29 charter says.
14:25:30 Neither you nor the mayor has made a decision on
14:25:33 whether you agreed with that or not at that
14:25:35 particular point.
14:25:36 His position is you have a conflict built in
14:25:38 already.
14:25:39 No decision was made, so how can there be a
14:25:42 conflict?
14:25:42 Because the decision was only made on what does
14:25:45 the charter say?
14:25:47 >> You are making the argument --
14:25:51 >>SAL TERRITO: You only heard one side of it.
14:25:53 We have a different perspective.
14:25:54 So the only way to resolve is it to get outside
14:25:57 counsel.
14:25:57 Somebody who is independent of both of us who has
14:26:00 a lot of authority a lot of experience, because
14:26:03 Marty and I are not going to agree, and you don't
14:26:05 want to have us fighting over this.
14:26:07 So the easiest way to do it is of to get somebody
14:26:09 on the outside who has the authority to do that.
14:26:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: And let me say this.
14:26:13 You know, we have taken a separate issue now and
14:26:16 making it -- taken it where it shouldn't be.
14:26:19 Mrs. Mandell requested that we -- she wanted to
14:26:24 pursue an outside counsel prior to taking the
14:26:27 break.
14:26:27 Now we are just trying to get to the bottom of it,
14:26:30 how much time you want, and to do this, and we
14:26:34 have got a date set.
14:26:35 Now, all we need to know, and need at this time,
14:26:42 does she plan on coming back in 30 days with an
14:26:44 opinion?
14:26:44 Or is she coming back in 30 days with the name of
14:26:47 an attorney?
14:26:48 >> Going to come back in 30 days with an opinion,
14:26:51 unless it takes longer than that.
14:26:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me say this.
14:26:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, Ms. Mandell
14:27:03 does not necessarily have to get an outside
14:27:05 attorney for this opinion.
14:27:07 There are other avenues that she's able to take
14:27:10 this opinion from.
14:27:11 She can ask for an opinion from the Florida Bar if
14:27:14 she wishes.
14:27:16 I'm just concerned that this is a situation where
14:27:21 I was concerned in e-mails ---I'm sorry.
14:27:27 >> I'm sorry, Mr. Shelby, but I think I -- I think
14:27:32 I know where you are going, and I would prefer
14:27:35 that what needs to be said be said by a council
14:27:38 member.
14:27:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
14:27:40 Okay.
14:27:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
14:27:42 So the first motion I made was for Ms. Mandell to
14:27:47 come back with the name of the attorney that had
14:27:51 been chosen to render the opinion, and then she
14:27:57 said she wanted to have the opinion back in 30
14:27:59 days.
14:28:00 So to accommodate both, I would like to motion
14:28:05 that the attorney that is being recommended to
14:28:11 render his or her opinion on a conflict of
14:28:15 interest be brought back to us by September
14:28:19 17th at 9:00 a.m.
14:28:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: 30 days?
14:28:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, no, she said 30 days for
14:28:27 the opinion.
14:28:28 I would like to know who the person is on
14:28:30 September 17th.
14:28:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just the name.
14:28:32 >>CHAIRMAN: Just the name.
14:28:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
14:28:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Cohen?
14:28:35 >>HARRY COHEN: At the same time that she comes
14:28:40 back with a name, perhaps she can tell us the
14:28:43 scope of the question that she's asking the
14:28:45 attorney.
14:28:47 >> Is that a friendly amendment?
14:28:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
14:28:50 So there's no misunderstanding about what it is
14:28:52 that we are asking to have back.
14:28:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I accept that.
14:28:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, it's being done in
14:29:00 correlation with the Tampa attorney?
14:29:04 >> Yes.
14:29:04 That was part of the original motion as well, that
14:29:07 Ms. Mandell work with Mr. Shelby on selecting the
14:29:11 attorney which is going to be reported to us on --
14:29:18 >>SAL TERRITO: I know you don't like to hear
14:29:20 this.
14:29:21 That decision is a city decision.
14:29:23 If you don't want to approve the contract that's
14:29:26 your decision.
14:29:26 It is her decision under the charter.
14:29:28 She makes all the legal decisions for the city.
14:29:30 If you don't like what she brings forward, turn
14:29:33 the contract down.
14:29:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's what we'll decide on
14:29:36 September 17.
14:29:37 >> Consultation with if city attorney is not part
14:29:39 of that.
14:29:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: In the spirit of working
14:29:42 together as Mr. Cohen said earlier, that we would
14:29:44 like to work with the administration on getting
14:29:46 some of -- to the bottom of some of these
14:29:50 questions.
14:29:50 We would appreciate working with our city
14:29:53 attorney.
14:29:55 I mean, you can bring it directly to the council
14:29:58 members individually if you so choose.
14:29:59 But we are trying to work together here.
14:30:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, I think you probably
14:30:08 misunderstood what Mrs. Mandell was saying, that
14:30:11 she wanted to meet with our attorney as part of
14:30:13 the process.
14:30:15 She suggested that.
14:30:20 All right, we have a motion on the floor, motion
14:30:22 by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mrs. Capin.
14:30:27 Any further discussion?
14:30:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the friendly amendment.
14:30:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: All those in favor of the motion
14:30:34 say aye.
14:30:35 Those opposed?
14:30:36 All right.
14:30:40 Anything else from you?
14:30:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The results hopefully from the
14:30:50 questions I asked earlier.
14:30:51 >> Chief Ward: The contract with St. Pete PD,
14:30:56 some of the questions asked that you brought up.
14:31:00 Over the last six years, they have reviewed 208
14:31:03 cases, and in my time of six years had several
14:31:12 recommendations.
14:31:12 Watch we couldn't get from them is what were these
14:31:15 recommendations, and were they implemented?
14:31:17 Couldn't get that information from them at that
14:31:19 time.
14:31:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay, so I appreciate the
14:31:22 quick work, and I understand that it would have
14:31:26 been difficult to get all of the information.
14:31:30 So I am going to also make a motion for September
14:31:32 17th for the police department, for Chief
14:31:37 Ward, or Assistant Chief Dugan, to appear to
14:31:40 further answer the questions that were posed this
14:31:42 morning so we know there were 208 cases that were
14:31:47 brought forward in six years.
14:31:49 We know that there were seven recommendations.
14:31:52 I would like to know what those recommendations
14:31:54 were, and if they were implemented by the
14:31:57 St. Petersburg police department.
14:31:59 And that would be at 9:00 a.m. on the 17th.
14:32:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
14:32:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, got a motion from Mrs.
14:32:06 Montelione, seconded by Ms. Capin.
14:32:10 Any discussion on the motion?
14:32:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was just going to say that's
14:32:16 about two a month and that's about one seven a
14:32:22 year for the recommendations and has given four
14:32:24 indication vacation.
14:32:25 The judge says the NFL was wrong.
14:32:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Say that again?
14:32:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just wanted to sneak in it.
14:32:34 He played ball the deflate ball, remember?
14:32:38 The NFL was wrong.
14:32:40 Thought I would humor us up a little bit.
14:32:44 (Laughter).
14:32:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
14:32:46 So we had a motion by Mrs. Montelione.
14:32:49 Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
14:32:52 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:32:54 Opposed?
14:32:54 All right.
14:32:55 Thank you, chief.
14:32:57 Council, anything else on item number 1?
14:33:05 I'm going to pass the gavel.
14:33:09 Mr. Chair, I would like to make a motion at this
14:33:11 time.
14:33:14 I would like to make a motion directing the legal
14:33:16 department to draft an ordinance creating a
14:33:19 citizen review board for the Tampa Police
14:33:20 Department and codify mayor's executive order
14:33:26 2015-4 with the modification that the composition
14:33:31 of the board will consist of seven members
14:33:33 appointed by City Council, two members appointed
14:33:34 by the mayor and two alternates appointed by the
14:33:38 mayor and the draft ordinance be brought back to
14:33:39 the City Council for discussion on September 24,
14:33:42 2015 workshop at 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:33:45 >> Second.
14:33:50 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion by Councilman
14:33:52 Reddick, seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
14:33:55 Discussion on the motion?
14:33:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Just to clarify.
14:33:58 (off microphone) so that was adopting and
14:34:05 codifying the executive order issued by the mayor
14:34:11 with changes that -- changes to the makeup of the
14:34:16 board?
14:34:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Right.
14:34:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can you repeat?
14:34:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Modification, composition of the
14:34:22 board, consisting of seven members appointed by
14:34:24 the City Council, two members appointed by the
14:34:27 mayor and two alternates appointed by the mayor,
14:34:29 and move that a draft ordinance be brought to City
14:34:32 Council for discussion at the September 24, 2015
14:34:36 workshop at 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:34:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You didn't mention some of the
14:34:44 other terms that the mayor has issued.
14:34:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: That's why I say --
14:34:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have an issue with the four
14:34:50 year terms.
14:34:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, that's what we'll have
14:34:54 discussion at the workshop on.
14:34:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
14:34:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: That's the reason why I
14:34:58 recommended at the workshop, so we can discuss
14:35:02 this at the workshop, and make any modification we
14:35:05 would like to do be at the workshop.
14:35:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Further discussion?
14:35:09 Councilman Miranda.
14:35:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am just going to say this.
14:35:13 This is again the start of -- whoever the mayor
14:35:17 is, they have the right to have do what they do,
14:35:24 we have the right to do what we do, but it's going
14:35:26 to start something in the future that will be the
14:35:29 tearing of the government in the future.
14:35:31 And I'm not going to support that, whether the
14:35:33 mayor is right or wrong, that's up to the public
14:35:35 to decide.
14:35:37 I can tell you that the position of the mayor in
14:35:39 this city, unless you want to change the whole
14:35:42 charter -- and I'm not opposed to putting it
14:35:44 before the people if you want a different form of
14:35:45 government, so be it.
14:35:47 Let the people decide.
14:35:48 I'm not going to tear apart this government so I
14:35:50 will not be supporting it, sir.
14:35:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
14:35:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And I am going to support it
14:36:00 because again clarifying the representative
14:36:03 government of the people.
14:36:05 So I will be supporting it.
14:36:07 Thank you.
14:36:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone else?
14:36:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And I want to be very clear about
14:36:13 all this.
14:36:14 And as I mentioned earlier, I had actually put
14:36:18 together a draft very similar to what the mayor
14:36:21 had except for the composition of the board.
14:36:23 I do think that when we look at trying to put some
14:36:27 of these boards together, it should be fair based
14:36:29 on what our representation is and what the mayor's
14:36:32 is.
14:36:33 Three of us are elected city-wide just like he is.
14:36:36 He has the specific job as do we.
14:36:39 And for me, I think that if the mayor would have
14:36:43 consulted with us, I don't think that we would
14:36:46 have had much of a problem right now.
14:36:48 I think of that we would have had no problem with
14:36:51 the review board as put forth.
14:36:53 There are limitations that we have when it comes
14:36:56 to subpoena power and other things.
14:36:58 I think that everyone has seen that, and that we
14:37:00 have to begin somewhere.
14:37:02 And I agree with Councilman Miranda to a certain
14:37:06 degree, which is we want to see our city go
14:37:09 forward together.
14:37:09 We don't want to see us fighting amongst
14:37:13 ourselves.
14:37:13 It does nothing for the public at large.
14:37:15 It does nothing for the communities who come to
14:37:17 complain to us physically when we fight tooth and
14:37:21 nail on something that we should start trying to
14:37:23 figure out how to come together.
14:37:24 Again, I'm not going to get into who started this
14:37:26 or who didn't start it, but I do think that when
14:37:30 we do our workshop, I think that we should
14:37:32 concentrate specifically on how we make it a
14:37:36 doable document so that the mayor can sign onto
14:37:39 it, so we don't have to worry about whether or not
14:37:41 we have five votes to go forward or only four,
14:37:44 because if we get into that situation, we may have
14:37:46 to go and override a veto on the particular
14:37:52 ordinance.
14:37:52 I appreciate the fact that we are going forward.
14:37:54 I think that we are finally going the right
14:37:56 direction so that we can figure out the next step.
14:37:59 So thank you.
14:38:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Suarez, I agree with
14:38:02 everything you just said, and the same thing, in
14:38:09 the workshop we can have open discussion.
14:38:11 Maybe it goes nowhere at that workshop but at
14:38:16 least we have a dialogue.
14:38:16 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Asking for a legitimate voice
14:38:24 in regards to this advisory board.
14:38:26 We as counsel should have that voice by being able
14:38:29 to appoint who we choose to appoint.
14:38:31 Four of us represents districts, three are
14:38:34 city-wide.
14:38:34 I have faith in this council that whoever is
14:38:36 appointed should go forward that there are good
14:38:39 people that will be vigilant, that will do their
14:38:42 job correctly, and moving forward I think this
14:38:44 will be a positive thing.
14:38:45 >>HARRY COHEN: I would just like to say before we
14:38:54 vote that I am skeptical of whether or not going
14:39:02 forward as council is such a good idea, because of
14:39:06 the issues that I brought up earlier.
14:39:08 However, because you have asked to have it brought
14:39:10 back in a workshop, and because that's simply
14:39:16 something to discuss, I will vote for the workshop
14:39:18 but I want to make very clear that I'm doing that
14:39:22 without committing how I am ultimately going to
14:39:25 vote on the matter, because like I said earlier, I
14:39:28 have great concerns about us pointing any sort of
14:39:33 board that doesn't ultimately have the ear of the
14:39:38 mayor and the cooperation of the mayor, and the
14:39:41 support of his powers under the charter.
14:39:49 Anyone else?
14:39:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to say that I am
14:39:54 in favor of converting, for reasons Mrs. Capin
14:39:58 brought up earlier, the executive order to an
14:40:00 ordinance, because as you pointed out, the
14:40:03 executive order can be rescinded, changed at any
14:40:07 time, but with an ordinance, there has to be
14:40:11 public input, and has to be a public hearing.
14:40:14 So, you know, I'm in favor of converting that
14:40:18 order to an ordinance.
14:40:19 And as we have done it before.
14:40:22 Maybe not this council sitting here, but with the
14:40:25 equal opportunity, started out as an executive
14:40:31 order as Mr. Shelby pointed out and it was
14:40:33 converted to an ordinance.
14:40:34 So I think that is a mutually agreeable solution,
14:40:41 and it has been done before, and we can do it
14:40:43 again.
14:40:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
14:40:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
14:40:49 I just want to say that a powerful mayor and a
14:40:53 powerful City Council makes for a better
14:40:55 democratic government.
14:40:56 Representative of the people and by definition
14:40:59 forces those branches of city government to
14:41:00 negotiate, collaborate, and compromise.
14:41:06 The public wins by having a true representative
14:41:10 government base, a true representative government.
14:41:14 And that's why I'm moving for a workshop and
14:41:17 discussion.
14:41:18 Thank you.
14:41:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone else?
14:41:22 With that we have a motion on the floor from
14:41:23 Councilman Reddick.
14:41:25 Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
14:41:27 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
14:41:29 Opposed?
14:41:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Aye.
14:41:34 >> Miranda voting no.
14:41:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
14:41:36 We go to item number 3.
14:41:37 >>HARRY COHEN: There has been a request for a
14:41:54 continuance, I believe, on item number 3.
14:41:58 The red light camera discussion.
14:42:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I made that motion.
14:42:07 >>JULIA MANDELL: As you can see by the
14:42:08 memorandum, I have reviewed the documents you
14:42:10 requested, but we just began a new round of
14:42:13 litigation in this manner so I'm requesting that
14:42:16 be conned for 60 days to determine where that
14:42:21 litigation is going so we don't end up going into
14:42:24 items that would have an impact on that litigation
14:42:27 as well as litigation we have pending in our
14:42:29 traffic courts.
14:42:30 Thank you.
14:42:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
14:42:33 When is that being continued to?
14:42:35 >> (off microphone).
14:42:41 >>HARRY COHEN: Mrs. Capin?
14:42:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would be agreeable to that.
14:42:50 This report that we got --
14:42:53 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you would like more
14:42:54 information I think it would be appropriate to add
14:42:56 that in as well.
14:42:57 I just was really more concerned with than the
14:42:59 discussion.
14:43:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, and I also want to ask, would
14:43:03 you be calling for a shade meeting, City Council?
14:43:12 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you call it a shade meeting,
14:43:14 Rebecca Kert will -- (Laughter)
14:43:20 That's one of the reasons -- that's one of the
14:43:27 reasons I am asking for this amount of time so I
14:43:29 can have a better understanding's where we need to
14:43:31 go from here in closed session.
14:43:36 Thank you.
14:43:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Item number 3?
14:43:43 >> (off microphone).
14:43:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have a motion from Mrs.
14:43:49 Montelione.
14:43:50 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
14:43:52 All in favor of that motion?
14:43:53 Okay.
14:43:54 All right.
14:43:56 We open up items 29 through 33.
14:43:59 >> So moved.
14:44:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have a motion from Mr. Suarez.
14:44:02 Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
14:44:03 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:44:05 Opposed?
14:44:06 All right.
14:44:07 If anyone wants to speak on item 29, 30, 31, 32 or
14:44:11 33, please stand to be sworn in.
14:44:13 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:44:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Item number 29.
14:44:31 MARY SAMANIEGO: All the required site plans have
14:44:33 been certified with the clerk.
14:44:35 Thank you.
14:44:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
14:44:38 Petitioner?
14:44:45 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
14:44:48 Here this afternoon on behalf of 7venth Sun
14:44:52 Brewery requesting your approval on second reading
14:44:55 of the ordinance approving the site plan.
14:44:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, any questions from
14:44:58 council?
14:44:59 Anyone in the audience like to speak on item
14:45:01 number 29?
14:45:04 Motion from Mr. Miranda, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
14:45:07 All in favor of that motion?
14:45:09 Opposed?
14:45:09 All right.
14:45:10 Number 29.
14:45:11 Mrs. Montelione, are you ready for that?
14:45:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, sir.
14:45:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chairman, item number 29, file
14:45:19 AB 2-15-15, present an ordinance for second
14:45:22 reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
14:45:24 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage
14:45:27 sales, large venue consumption on premises and
14:45:29 package sales, consumption off premises, and
14:45:33 making lawful the sale of beer and wine at or from
14:45:36 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
14:45:41 6809 north Nebraska Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
14:45:43 particularly described in section 2, that all
14:45:45 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are
14:45:48 repealed, providing an effective date.
14:45:49 >> Second.
14:45:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Got a motion from Mr. Miranda,
14:45:53 seconded by Mr. Suarez.
14:45:55 All those in favor please record your vote.
14:46:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
14:46:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Number 30.
14:46:12 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Representing petitioner.
14:46:22 We made the corrections to the plan as indicated
14:46:24 by the staff.
14:46:25 The new site plan has been certified and we
14:46:28 respectfully request your approval.
14:46:30 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any questions from council?
14:46:32 Anyone in the audience like to speak on item
14:46:34 number 30?
14:46:43 >> Good afternoon.
14:46:45 Phil Schlossagle, San Pedro street.
14:46:49 I understand the site plan has been revised but
14:46:52 nothing has been posted on the website.
14:46:54 I am not aware of what has been changed on it.
14:46:56 Again, the last meeting was August 20th, and
14:47:00 you heard a lot of the neighbors concern about
14:47:04 ingress onto or from San Pedro street, and traffic
14:47:09 down our street.
14:47:11 And here is the property here.
14:47:19 [Off microphone.]
14:47:24 >> Can you move that up a little?
14:47:28 Or just shift the page.
14:47:29 >> Thank you.
14:47:34 As you can see, it's here.
14:47:38 This is an 80-foot long lot, mostly up in that
14:47:41 area.
14:47:42 And when this property was rezoned from RS-50 to
14:47:48 PD, one of the comments from council was this
14:47:53 property wasn't large enough to hold anything more
14:47:55 than two full-time employees and their clients.
14:47:59 Now, it's being proposed 4,000 square foot
14:48:04 building which is outside of the typical setback
14:48:11 for Dale Mabry.
14:48:11 Also 3 feet closer to my house than the code
14:48:15 allows.
14:48:15 And again, current ingress and egress is from Dale
14:48:20 Mabry, not from San Pedro.
14:48:22 I guess the size of the property, the size of the
14:48:26 proposed structure is kind of warranting onto San
14:48:35 Pedro.
14:48:36 I got this graphic for you.
14:48:38 If the boundaries of the structure were moved
14:48:40 within the 45 feet of Dale Mabry, 15 fate off the
14:48:44 property line here, you would only lose 800 square
14:48:47 feet of the structure.
14:48:48 He would be able to maintain Tampa tree here which
14:48:56 Mary was concerned about retaining.
14:48:58 There's also an oak tree here and that would be
14:49:00 retained as well.
14:49:02 And two trees on the property.
14:49:04 As it is now, both of those trees are set to be
14:49:08 removed.
14:49:09 Again, this area of Dale Mabry from Plant High
14:49:13 School to about half mile south of where this
14:49:16 property is, you know, is kind of the last
14:49:21 remaining canopy area of Dale Mabry.
14:49:23 This is the tree here that will be removed.
14:49:26 Again, if possible, that the site plan be
14:49:32 modified, restrict the building to typical
14:49:37 setbacks.
14:49:42 We might be able to redirect the traffic, keep it
14:49:45 on Dale Mabry instead of San Pedro.
14:49:47 Thank you.
14:49:47 (Bell sounds).
14:49:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, thank you.
14:49:51 Anyone in the audience?
14:49:54 That's what we just did.
14:49:55 Petitioner?
14:50:00 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Council, there's nothing we
14:50:01 can do about changing the access from Dale Mabry.
14:50:04 We followed the staff's direction.
14:50:06 We have no objections from them.
14:50:08 And we made the corrections per your instructions.
14:50:11 And now we are back before you requesting
14:50:12 approval.
14:50:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any questions from council?
14:50:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Just for clarification, the
14:50:19 speaker asked what had changed on the site plan we
14:50:26 first directed from first reading.
14:50:28 I know I asked about changing where the garbage --
14:50:32 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We relocated the dumpster.
14:50:35 >> Is that the only thing that changed?
14:50:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: No, sir, you asked us to
14:50:38 change the setback on the side of the building
14:50:41 which we did.
14:50:41 We gave them a greater setback on the east side of
14:50:44 the building.
14:50:47 Which reduced the setbacks that we needed on the
14:50:49 north side of the building but it's adjacent to a
14:50:52 commercial property.
14:50:54 We also -- and we said we would look at removing
14:50:58 any windows on the east side, although it was not
14:51:01 part of your motion.
14:51:02 We put in all transom windows which are high
14:51:06 skylight windows.
14:51:07 There are in a direct windows looking out over the
14:51:09 property.
14:51:10 You asked us to exam the access of the driveway
14:51:13 and what could be done to minimize the impact on
14:51:15 the neighborhood.
14:51:17 We submitted a site plan for the city staff, which
14:51:20 they asked us to revise again, which we did.
14:51:23 And then we placed a note on the plan indicating
14:51:25 that the driveway's location and design would be
14:51:28 determined by transportation with the
14:51:32 understanding that we are trying to minimize any
14:51:34 impact onto San Pedro.
14:51:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any other questions from council?
14:51:42 All right.
14:51:43 Is there a motion?
14:51:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:51:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Mr. Miranda, seconded
14:51:47 by Mr. Suarez.
14:51:49 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:51:52 Okay, Ms. Capin, would you read 30?
14:51:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
14:51:59 I would be glad to.
14:52:00 An ordinance being presented for second reading
14:52:02 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in
14:52:03 the general vicinity of 3110 South Dale Mabry
14:52:06 Highway in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:52:09 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:52:11 district classifications PD planned development,
14:52:14 office, business, professional, to PD, planned
14:52:17 development, office, business, professional,
14:52:20 providing an effective date.
14:52:24 The revisions -- do I need to say that?
14:52:27 No, thank you.
14:52:28 That's it.
14:52:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Got a motion from Mrs. Capin.
14:52:31 Second by Mr. Cohen.
14:52:32 Please record your vote.
14:52:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Maniscalco and
14:52:49 Suarez voting no.
14:52:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Item number 31.
14:52:57 >>MARY SAMANIEGO: Land Development Coordination.
14:52:58 I do know that the applicant for 31 was here
14:53:02 previously this morning.
14:53:03 I don't see her now.
14:53:04 I respectfully request that you open it for second
14:53:08 reading.
14:53:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
14:53:11 Anyone from the audience like to speak on item
14:53:13 number 31?
14:53:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:53:18 >> Second.
14:53:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion to close by Mr. Miranda.
14:53:21 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
14:53:22 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:53:24 All right.
14:53:25 Mr. Suarez.
14:53:25 >> I move an ordinance for second reading and
14:53:30 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
14:53:32 general vicinity of 308 East 7th Avenue in the
14:53:37 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
14:53:38 described in section 1 from zoning district
14:53:40 classifications PD planned development,
14:53:42 professional office, medical office, residential,
14:53:44 mixed use professional/medical, to PD, planned
14:53:48 development, place of religious assembly,
14:53:50 multifamily residential, and office,
14:53:52 business/professional, providing an effective
14:53:54 date.
14:53:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
14:53:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: A motion from Mr. Suarez.
14:53:58 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
14:53:59 Please record your vote.
14:54:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
14:54:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Item number 32.
14:54:13 >> Truett Gardner, north Ashley.
14:54:22 All of our changes have been made to the site plan
14:54:24 and we thank you for your time and look forward to
14:54:26 building this project.
14:54:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
14:54:31 Anyone from the audience to speak on item number
14:54:34 32?
14:54:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:54:37 >> Second.
14:54:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Mr. Miranda.
14:54:40 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
14:54:41 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:54:43 Opposed?
14:54:45 Mr. Cohen.
14:54:46 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
14:54:48 I move an ordinance being presented for second
14:54:49 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
14:54:52 property in the general vicinity of 102 and 110
14:54:55 north 20th street in the city of Tampa,
14:54:57 Florida and particularly described in section 1
14:54:59 from zoning district classification IH industrial
14:55:02 heavy to PD planned development, air conditioned
14:55:05 storage and open storage, providing an effective
14:55:06 date.
14:55:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:55:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Mr. Cohen, seconded
14:55:10 by Mr. Miranda.
14:55:11 Please record your vote.
14:55:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
14:55:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
14:55:21 Item number 33.
14:55:22 >> David Smith, 401 East Jackson Street here on
14:55:36 behalf of the petitioner.
14:55:37 In the interim, we have made all the changes to
14:55:39 the site plan.
14:55:40 It has been certified, and we request your
14:55:42 approval today.
14:55:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
14:55:46 Anyone in the audience like to speak on item
14:55:47 number 34?
14:55:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:55:51 >> Second.
14:55:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Miranda, seconded
14:55:59 by Mrs. Montelione.
14:56:01 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:56:03 Okay.
14:56:04 Mr. Maniscalco.
14:56:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: An ordinance presented for
14:56:11 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
14:56:13 property in the general vicinity of 1220, 1280
14:56:16 north O'Brien street in the city of Tampa, Florida
14:56:18 and more particularly described in section 1 from
14:56:20 zoning district classification PD planned
14:56:22 development, office, business/professional and
14:56:25 medical, retail, hotel, commercial recreational
14:56:29 facility, indoor, vocational business school, to
14:56:32 PD planned development, office, business
14:56:34 professional and medical, retail, hotel,
14:56:36 restaurant, venue place of assembly, bank, without
14:56:39 drive-through, personal services vocational
14:56:42 business school, commercial recreational facility,
14:56:46 indoor, hydroponic garden, providing an effective
14:56:48 date.
14:56:50 Miranda second.
14:56:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Maniscalco,
14:56:55 seconded by Mr. Suarez.
14:56:56 Please record your vote.
14:56:57 >> Motion carried unanimously.
14:57:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
14:57:05 Let's have a motion to open 35 through 37.
14:57:15 >> So moved.
14:57:16 >> Second.
14:57:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Anyone to speak on 35 through 37,
14:57:19 please stand to be sworn in.
14:57:22 35 through 37.
14:57:23 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:57:26 Item 35.
14:57:33 >> Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin Street.
14:57:36 I represent the petitioner Acardi Acquisitions,
14:57:45 ask to continue to October 15th to allow the
14:57:48 Barrio Latino commission to vacate, which is
14:57:52 scheduled for September 22nd, and we will renotice
14:57:54 both the Barrio meeting and the City Council
14:57:56 meeting.
14:57:56 Thank you.
14:57:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Anyone in the audience like to
14:57:58 speak on the continuance of item number 35?
14:58:04 Seeing none.
14:58:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue to October
14:58:07 15th at 10:30 in the morning, the year 2015.
14:58:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
14:58:14 Motion from Mr. Miranda.
14:58:16 Second by Mr. Cohen.
14:58:17 All in favor?
14:58:17 Opposed?
14:58:19 Item number 36.
14:58:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to be removed from the
14:58:28 agenda.
14:58:28 >> Second.
14:58:28 >> Motion by Mr. Cohen.
14:58:30 Seconded by Mr. Maniscalco.
14:58:33 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:58:34 Opposed?
14:58:35 All right.
14:58:36 Item number 37.
14:58:36 >>THE CLERK: On item number 37 the first public
14:58:45 hearing was continued to September 10th at
14:58:48 6:00 p.m.
14:58:48 So we need to continue this until after that date.
14:58:52 >> So moved.
14:58:53 >>THE CLERK: I recommend the 17th.
14:59:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
14:59:03 Got a motion from Mr. Cohen.
14:59:05 Second by Mr. Suarez.
14:59:07 Discussion on the motion?
14:59:08 Seeing none, all in favor of the motion?
14:59:11 Opposed?
14:59:11 All right.
14:59:12 Motion carries.
14:59:13 Number 34.
14:59:14 >> Jan McLean, city attorney.
14:59:24 We are here on the continued public hearing on
14:59:26 item number 34, which is the proposed resolution
14:59:30 for the increase to the assessment for the
14:59:34 stormwater services.
14:59:38 We were asked to come back to answer two questions
14:59:41 from the meeting last week, and the two questions
14:59:44 were what are the terms and conditions of the
14:59:47 contract with the tax collector?
14:59:48 And what would be preliminary estimate of costs
14:59:53 associated with doing -- utilizing the city
14:59:57 utility billing system to collect stormwater
15:00:00 assessment.
15:00:02 Mr. Baird and Sonya will address the second
15:00:06 question.
15:00:07 I looked into the contract which was an education
15:00:11 for me since I have been doing this for nine years
15:00:13 and not seen the contract, so thank you very much
15:00:15 for focusing my attention on that.
15:00:17 The contract has, in 2003, when the utility was
15:00:22 created, has been in effect ever since then.
15:00:25 It's been renewed automatically every year unless
15:00:28 the council advises the tax collector by January
15:00:31 15th of that year that they will no longer use
15:00:35 their services.
15:00:36 So the question posed to us for this year, we need
15:00:40 to use their services to collect for the
15:00:43 assessments for this year because we did not give
15:00:45 them that notice.
15:00:49 That's all that I have for that portion of it.
15:00:52 >>HARRY COHEN: I just want to ask you a question
15:00:55 so we can be clear about this.
15:00:56 The action that we are taking today related to the
15:01:00 service assessment, it's only for this coming
15:01:03 year.
15:01:04 In other words, we are only binding ourselves for
15:01:06 a year.
15:01:07 And this piece of the assessment is not something
15:01:11 that we have any plan in the next fiscal year, so
15:01:19 we aren't borrowing against this year's money.
15:01:24 >> >>JAN MCLEAN: No, we are not.
15:01:25 >> The decision is still out in front of us
15:01:30 regardless of what happened today.
15:01:33 >>JAN MCLEAN: As far as capital improvement, yes.
15:01:35 This is just the increase to the rating from the
15:01:38 current service assessment that's been in place
15:01:40 since 2003.
15:01:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
15:01:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Any other questions?
15:01:47 All right.
15:01:48 Are you finished with that presentation?
15:01:51 >>JAN MCLEAN: Yes, sir.
15:01:57 >>BRAD BAIRD: Public works and utility services
15:01:59 administrator.
15:02:01 I will address the second part of that is the
15:02:05 preliminary costs associated with if we were to
15:02:09 use the utility bill for collection purposes for
15:02:12 the stormwater assessment.
15:02:15 It is certainly possible to do that.
15:02:19 Tampa first issue we come across is that we are in
15:02:22 the process of replacing our 24-year-old billing
15:02:25 system.
15:02:26 So right-of-way, and I will get into the details
15:02:33 of the cost.
15:02:34 Right-of-way, that would mean that we would be
15:02:36 essentially doubling our database cost doing it
15:02:40 one time for the old system, and then another time
15:02:44 again for the new system in a couple of years.
15:02:49 The biggest issue is that our current customer
15:02:52 base is approximately 30% renters, and so we do
15:02:56 not have information on the owners for those
15:03:02 residences.
15:03:04 So that would result in an additional 24,000
15:03:09 stormwater only utility bills.
15:03:14 So assuming we would bill monthly, I'll go through
15:03:18 the costs really quickly.
15:03:20 It will result in the following additional cost.
15:03:23 First, the one-time upfront cost.
15:03:28 The renoticing will cost about $150 new for the
15:03:33 renoticing.
15:03:36 Much like we did this time.
15:03:39 And then secondly, the upfront, the bigger upfront
15:03:43 costs would be the billing database update that I
15:03:45 just mentioned, which would be approximately
15:03:51 250,000 to manually add that owner information,
15:03:56 the mitigation credits and the assessment
15:03:58 variances to the existing billing system, or to
15:04:02 the new billing system if we were to wait and do
15:04:04 that.
15:04:05 It would be a similar cost.
15:04:09 But if we were to implement in FY 17 with the
15:04:12 existing billing system, and then in FY 18 with a
15:04:16 new billing system, it would amount to
15:04:19 approximately $450,000 in upfront costs.
15:04:24 So total, if we were to do this the following
15:04:29 year, or try to, in late fall of next year, put
15:04:34 that in place, it would result in upfront costs of
15:04:39 about $600,000.
15:04:42 Then the annual costs associated with changing
15:04:50 this collection method would be about $216,000.
15:04:56 And they would include things like annual database
15:05:01 maintenance costs for about a half of an SCE,
15:05:05 postage, printing, lockbox reconciliation fees
15:05:11 which are essentially a banking fee, and then
15:05:14 credit card fees.
15:05:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
15:05:17 Mr. Baird, is that 216,000 above what we are
15:05:21 currently paying?
15:05:24 >>BRAD BAIRD: Correct.
15:05:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So all the activities you are
15:05:27 talking about are activities we do not do now
15:05:30 because the tax collector does, is that correct?
15:05:33 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, but this would be for the
15:05:35 additional utility bills.
15:05:36 >> And we can't do what the tax collector does in
15:05:41 terms of --
15:05:43 >>BRAD BAIRD: Correct.
15:05:44 >> So an additional $216,000 that we bring in
15:05:49 in-house on an annual basis?
15:05:53 And then we have 216 per year additional to what
15:05:56 we already pay.
15:05:58 >>BRAD BAIRD: That is correct.
15:05:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
15:06:00 I just wanted to clarify.
15:06:02 >>BRAD BAIRD: If I might, I wanted to close with
15:06:04 it doesn't make financial sense to collect the
15:06:07 stormwater assessment via the city's utility bill
15:06:12 before the new system is in place.
15:06:14 However, if we want to consider this billing and
15:06:17 collection option after the new billing system is
15:06:19 in place, I would just advise that additional
15:06:22 investigation would need to be done to look at
15:06:25 what are the overall financial impacts to the
15:06:27 city, and depending on what assessments,
15:06:34 stormwater assessment looks like after we go
15:06:37 through the public hearings.
15:06:40 And it's just to give you an idea would be things
15:06:42 like additional bond coverage costs, borrowing
15:06:46 ramifications and collection percentages.
15:06:48 We would need to look into that further.
15:06:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
15:06:53 Any other questions?
15:06:55 All right.
15:07:01 >>JAN MCLEAN: Your question asked assessment
15:07:05 resolution.
15:07:05 If it's for one year.
15:07:07 It is for a year, or it can continue on.
15:07:11 I just want to clarify.
15:07:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
15:07:17 Anyone wishing to speak on item number 34?
15:07:20 Come forward.
15:07:44 >> My name is John Moll, 4104, 4107 North Lynn,
15:07:52 and 504 West North Bay.
15:07:55 I live in an area which has what they call
15:07:58 umbrella houses.
15:08:01 They were houses that were built before in the
15:08:04 20s, or actually my house was built in 1908.
15:08:08 And I have a picture here of water on gravel.
15:08:17 It goes underneath it.
15:08:19 It's nothing connected to the stormwater system at
15:08:22 all.
15:08:22 The same way my house right here, the water comes
15:08:25 over the roof, goes under the house.
15:08:27 It's not connected to the stormwater system
15:08:30 whatsoever.
15:08:31 I took this aerial because the stormwater people
15:08:36 have drones or something going over taking
15:08:40 aerials.
15:08:41 They look at roofs but they don't look any closer.
15:08:44 There's in a scrutiny what's underneath it.
15:08:47 Underneath mine is bare ground.
15:08:52 In this notice I got, this is going to cost me
15:08:57 $268 a year.
15:08:59 And like Mr. Miranda, I'm cheap.
15:09:02 I don't like to pay for things not used.
15:09:05 It says in 2003 the City Council enacted an
15:09:08 ordinance to create a stormwater utility and
15:09:10 provide a dedicated funding source for stormwater
15:09:13 management on the city's stormwater service.
15:09:17 Since that time, I thought there would be
15:09:25 retention, but that is not the case.
15:09:28 There's no verification that the surface is
15:09:32 impervious.
15:09:33 If they came out, the water sinks like it's
15:09:39 supposed to.
15:09:41 Since that time, 2003, stormwater service charges
15:09:44 have been imposed on all properties and utilize
15:09:54 the city's system.
15:09:55 I don't utilize the city system.
15:09:57 I don't use it for the wastewater that comes in
15:10:01 the house.
15:10:03 I have a septic tank that's been there for a
15:10:06 hundred years and it works perfectly.
15:10:08 The wastewater, I brought this to their attention,
15:10:11 came out, and to --
15:10:18 (Bell sounds)
15:10:19 -- verified that is not connected.
15:10:25 And I hope that you suggest maybe that somebody
15:10:27 can verify what they are talking about.
15:10:31 Any questions?
15:10:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was going to suggest, Mr. Moll,
15:10:36 you might want to contact them to much see if
15:10:38 there's any mitigating --
15:10:42 >> It doesn't apply.
15:10:43 >> It doesn't apply because you are not mitigating
15:10:45 enough?
15:10:48 You know, and I will just say one thing, Mr. Moll.
15:10:51 You live in the city.
15:10:52 And it's hard to say that everything you do does
15:10:56 not affect someone else, unless you do have an
15:10:58 engineering study that's part of the issue.
15:11:01 >> I don't have any.
15:11:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I know that.
15:11:05 My point is we can take your word for it but then
15:11:08 we still have to approve it because everyone can
15:11:11 say I don't affect anyone else.
15:11:12 So if you feel this strongly about it and you have
15:11:16 been at the meetings we have had so far so far, I
15:11:18 suggest looking into that because the cost may be
15:11:20 more cost effective for you in the long run.
15:11:23 And that's just my suggestion.
15:11:24 >> I'm being charged for something I'm not
15:11:32 getting.
15:11:32 Why would you pay for something you aren't
15:11:34 getting?
15:11:35 >> I don't disagree with that in terms of what you
15:11:37 said, but I this I in terms of why we have the
15:11:39 mitigation credit set up is so that you can show
15:11:42 that you are not affecting the stormwater system.
15:11:45 >> It's obvious, they can just drive by and look
15:11:48 at the house.
15:11:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:11:53 Ms. McLean, the way I understand this, in order
15:11:57 for somebody to get mitigation credit, they have
15:12:00 to hire an engineer.
15:12:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Tillou --
15:12:10 >> They have to hire an engineer which I imagine
15:12:13 it's not inexpensive.
15:12:14 They have to go out there and apply, and they have
15:12:16 to go out and low at the house.
15:12:21 >>JAN MCLEAN: They don't have to hire an engineer.
15:12:23 They would apply to the city.
15:12:24 The code requires that they have an engineering
15:12:27 study.
15:12:28 But our staff, our stormwater staff has worked
15:12:31 with individuals to see what kind of engineering
15:12:36 reports that they would have of that we could rely
15:12:40 on in order to demonstrate that they don't utilize
15:12:43 the city.
15:12:46 They don't have to hire an engineer.
15:12:48 >> They will apply with the city.
15:12:50 The city will go inspect themselves?
15:12:53 >>JAN MCLEAN: I'm not sure that they do a field
15:12:55 trip each time bull the code -- all right, some
15:13:00 demonstration, some evidence that they are not
15:13:02 discharging to the city.
15:13:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If somebody brings a
15:13:05 photograph, or they bring an 8-second production
15:13:10 of something, they show it to the city.
15:13:11 I don't know.
15:13:14 >>JAN MCLEAN: The code requires an engineer.
15:13:23 >>BRAD BAIRD: The stormwater engineering section
15:13:25 has been accepting site plans for that purpose.
15:13:28 So they do not need to hire an engineer for that.
15:13:31 And with that determinant that the simple site
15:13:34 plan would suffice for residential parcels.
15:13:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm not trying to belabor
15:13:41 this, Brad, but do they go out?
15:13:43 >> Yes, they can draw it up.
15:13:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then I got no problem with
15:13:48 that.
15:13:49 Thank you, chairman.
15:13:50 >> Okay, I'm Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs.
15:13:59 This came up last week, but I wasn't able to stay
15:14:03 because I was trying to get breakfast as I
15:14:07 mentioned, and the thing is, I failed.
15:14:10 So no breakfast for me.
15:14:12 Just like this morning.
15:14:14 Okay.
15:14:14 The thing is, I distributed material about my
15:14:20 handout of today, and at a CRA meeting, because
15:14:27 it's a planning and architectural concept, I might
15:14:30 be able to get to it at the CRA meeting.
15:14:33 But this is -- I don't know how to make this go
15:14:37 down but I don't have time.
15:14:39 Okay.
15:14:39 I gave this to you about urban runoff.
15:14:41 This is what I did with the state of Maryland
15:14:44 stormwaters, water and sewer, and I will say even
15:14:49 though I'm an engineer, and I think requiring
15:14:53 engineer work, this may be a good idea.
15:14:56 So it seems a little unfair that a private
15:14:59 individual would have to do that when there's a
15:15:03 variance process which could take care of the --
15:15:11 my predecessor's speaking, that it wasn't made
15:15:16 available to him.
15:15:17 So you either got a variance process or you don't.
15:15:20 But in any case, urban runoff, what I came to
15:15:23 speak about was this.
15:15:28 I also gave you this, too.
15:15:31 But this is what was called a rational method for
15:15:34 determine stormwater runoff.
15:15:36 And we used it to call it much the Chicago method,
15:15:42 Chicago rationale.
15:15:43 But in any case, there's two -- even years ago,
15:15:48 people would do the engineering made a big joke
15:15:53 out of it.
15:15:54 But, anyway, which I don't have documentation of
15:15:59 right now but it's the runoff coefficients, the
15:16:07 drainage area which should include many groups.
15:16:11 So maybe give this man his variance quickly, or
15:16:14 the other people hear about this because a lot of
15:16:18 groups, it goes to the gutters and comes down onto
15:16:22 people's property.
15:16:23 But the people that would really be clobbered by
15:16:25 this are the commercial people.
15:16:26 (Bell sounds)
15:16:27 And you are doing something that's right.
15:16:29 In other words, impervious area is the generator
15:16:32 of the stormwater, and maybe about 20 years, I
15:16:38 don't know, sleepy hollow, fighting each other or
15:16:42 something.
15:16:43 But the point that came to me was this.
15:16:49 Rainfall intensity is on the increase so go after
15:16:52 the culprit.
15:16:53 17 cents a gallon increase on gasoline.
15:16:55 That would yield $250 million of our 20-year time.
15:17:01 Go after the culprit.
15:17:02 Go after the cars.
15:17:04 17 cents increase.
15:17:06 (Bell sounds).
15:17:09 >> And the county at 12 cents for their
15:17:11 transportation.
15:17:14 You know, the Obama Administration, it should be a
15:17:21 dollar 50.
15:17:22 That's what the subsidies for cars are.
15:17:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, thank you.
15:17:26 Next.
15:17:26 >> Mike Peterson, Greater Tampa Association of
15:17:30 Realtors.
15:17:31 I wanted to thank you for the continuance to
15:17:33 October 1st of the workshop on the methodology
15:17:35 behind these stormwater fees.
15:17:39 And because of that, the question was asked
15:17:41 earlier about is this only good for one year
15:17:44 and/or perhaps continued?
15:17:46 This is important because this fee that I believe
15:17:49 you are about to pass, this increase, is still
15:17:54 based on a methodology that a lot of people have a
15:17:56 concern with.
15:17:57 The fact that we are going to discuss that
15:17:59 methodology in October doesn't quite get it done
15:18:02 for today, but I understand where you are.
15:18:04 So I just wanted to clarify that if my
15:18:09 understanding is correct that if we do determine
15:18:11 we have found problems, we want to correct it now,
15:18:15 in the October workshop, it is likely to be
15:18:18 inapplicable to this particular service fee going
15:18:20 forward with the following year after we have made
15:18:23 some corrections.
15:18:24 If that's the case, then I kind of understand
15:18:26 where we are heading.
15:18:27 Thank you for the continuance and the workshop.
15:18:30 >>FRANK REDDICK: State your name for the record.
15:18:31 >> Mike Peterson, Greater Tampa Association of
15:18:34 Realtors.
15:18:34 >>HARRY COHEN: That is why I asked the question.
15:18:36 >> I thought I would get it on the record.
15:18:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
15:18:47 Comments from council?
15:18:52 Staff, does that complete your report?
15:18:55 All right.
15:18:56 What is the pleasure of council?
15:18:59 >> Do we need to close first or read the
15:19:01 resolution?
15:19:04 Do you want me to read the resolution?
15:19:07 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
15:19:07 I move a resolution of the city of Tampa, Florida
15:19:09 relating to the provision of stormwater management
15:19:12 services provided by the city's stormwater
15:19:14 utility, imposing stormwater charges against
15:19:16 developed property located in the stormwater
15:19:19 service area for the fiscal year beginning October
15:19:22 1, 2015, approving the increased rate of
15:19:25 stormwater charges, approving the stormwater roll,
15:19:28 directing that the stormwater roll be certified to
15:19:30 the Hillsborough County tax collector and
15:19:32 providing an effective date.
15:19:32 >> Second.
15:19:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion from Mr. Coven.
15:19:36 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
15:19:39 All in favor of the motion say aye.
15:19:41 Opposed? All right. Thank you.
15:19:43 >> Move to close.
15:19:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Got a motion from Mr. Cohen,
15:19:51 seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
15:19:52 All in favor? Opposed? All right.
15:19:55 New business. Mrs. Montelione.
15:19:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No new business, sir.
15:20:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Been a long day.
15:20:01 >> Very exciting day.
15:20:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Cohen?
15:20:08 >>HARRY COHEN: I don't have any new business but
15:20:12 I do want to say that I think this council showed
15:20:15 tremendous leadership in what we did rate now on
15:20:17 the stormwater fee.
15:20:21 Our residents have been really inundated with
15:20:23 flooding this summer and our people have demanded
15:20:27 that we address the issue and for the time in 12
15:20:30 years we did something really meaningful.
15:20:32 A lot of people came don't just do something
15:20:35 that's a Band-Aid.
15:20:36 Do something that's actually going to make a
15:20:38 difference.
15:20:39 And I think it's very, very good for the city that
15:20:41 we were able to make this decision.
15:20:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
15:20:47 Mrs. Capin.
15:20:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
15:20:55 I thought he was going to praise us for all of our
15:20:57 actions today.
15:20:58 Here we go. A motion the committee currently
15:21:05 scheduled for October 22 at 5:45 to November 12 at
15:21:08 5:45.
15:21:10 >> Moved by Mrs. Capin.
15:21:14 Seconded by Mr. Maniscalco.
15:21:22 All in favor? Opposed?
15:21:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: A motion in regard to presenting a
15:21:28 commendation to Theo Wujcik to be presented at the
15:21:35 Tampa Bay museum for the cultural arts ceremony
15:21:38 October 22.
15:21:39 >> Second.
15:21:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mrs. Capin.
15:21:43 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
15:21:45 All in favor? Opposed? All right.
15:21:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I am going to make a motion for a
15:21:54 commendation to Delano Stewart for a long-time
15:21:56 contract attorney for the City of Tampa, and of
15:21:58 course many of you who know Delano. He has been a
15:22:03 leader in the legal world in Tampa for many, many
15:22:06 years, and they want to present it at his last
15:22:11 civil service board meeting, which will come in
15:22:14 October.
15:22:14 >> Second.
15:22:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: Motion by Mr. Suarez.
15:22:18 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
15:22:19 All in favor of the motion say aye.
15:22:23 Opposed?
15:22:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's it, sir.
15:22:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Miranda?
15:22:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, sir.
15:22:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
15:22:30 A motion to receive and file.
15:22:31 >> So moved.
15:22:34 >> Second.
15:22:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: We stand adjourned until 5:00.
15:22:37 5:01.
15:22:42
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