Tampa City Council
September 1, 2016
6:00 p.m.
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6:04:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Tampa City Council is now called
6:04:28 into order.
6:04:31 Roll call, please.
6:04:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
6:04:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
6:04:39 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Here.
6:04:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
6:04:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
6:04:47 First item of business is a continuation of a
6:04:48 public hearing on the first read.
6:04:50 I do not believe the people who were supposed to
6:04:53 be here are here at this time.
6:04:54 They have requested that we have a continuation
6:04:55 going forward.
6:04:58 Is there anyone here representing the group from
6:05:00 Google on this particular item?
6:05:03 I don't think there is anyone here, but I just
6:05:05 want to make sure.
6:05:05 All right.
6:05:07 If we can get a motion to continue this to --
6:05:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
6:05:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: -- to the next public meeting.
6:05:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
6:05:19 >> Would -- I believe it's the evening.
6:05:22 >>KRISTIN MORA: Kristin Mora, legal department.
6:05:25 It is for September 22nd at 5:00 p.m.
6:05:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Motion by Mr. Miranda.
6:05:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 22nd of September at 5:01 p.m.
6:05:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have by Mr. Miranda and a second
6:05:39 by Mr. Cohen.
6:05:41 Anyone in had the public who would like to speak
6:05:43 on Item Number 1, which is a continuation of a
6:05:43 public hearing?
6:05:44 I see no one.
6:05:44 Okay.
6:05:49 Next up is Item Number 2, staff.
6:05:55 >>JAN McLEAN: Good evening.
6:05:57 We need to open the public hearing.
6:06:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Oh, I apologize.
6:06:05 >>HARRY COHEN: I move to open the public hearing.
6:06:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen,
6:06:10 second by Mr. Miranda.
6:06:10 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying
6:06:11 aye.
6:06:11 Any opposed?
6:06:16 >>JAN McLEAN: Jan McLean for the City.
6:06:18 We're here for Item Number 2, the second public
6:06:20 hearing on the proposed stormwater improvement
6:06:24 assessment, and before we get started, I
6:06:35 distributed that afternoon an amended final
6:06:36 resolution, which you received, which only
6:06:40 contains a three-word clarification in Section 5
6:06:41 of the final resolution that was previously
6:06:45 distributed and provided to council and available
6:06:51 to the public.
6:06:58 As you can see on page 2, to direct your attention
6:07:00 so that you can note are that the final resolution
6:07:03 but for the correction is the same, we added in
6:07:05 the words "Authority to make adjustments for," and
6:07:08 that's the section where the director is allowed
6:07:13 to make adjustments to the assignment the SUs to a
6:07:15 partial, and we wanted to clarify that you can
6:07:19 make an adjustment not simply on errors, and
6:07:21 that's the sum and substance of the amendment to
6:07:22 the final resolution.
6:07:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
6:07:27 Any questions about that substitute resolution?
6:07:31 If I could get a motion to accept this as the --
6:07:33 as the document that we're going to be talking
6:07:34 about tonight --
6:07:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So move.
6:07:37 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Second.
6:07:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Motion from Mr. Miranda, second by
6:07:41 Mr. Maniscalco.
6:07:42 All in favor indicate by saying aye.
6:07:46 Any opposed?
6:07:48 Ms. McLean, anything else?
6:07:50 >>JAN McLEAN: No, sir, not from me.
6:07:52 Mr. Baird.
6:07:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Baird.
6:07:56 >>BRAD BAIRD: Good evening, Chair, members of the
6:07:56 Council.
6:08:00 I'm Brad Baird, Public Works and Utility Services
6:08:01 administrator.
6:08:04 If we could bring up the presentation, please.
6:08:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: It's up.
6:08:12 >>BRAD BAIRD: We're here for the stormwater
6:08:14 improvement assessment public hearing, and these
6:08:17 pictures are from last August, and the lower one
6:08:23 is West Tampa at 300 North Rome, and the upper one
6:08:27 is 45th Street, just north of Hillsborough Avenue.
6:08:29 This one happens to be a dangerous one because
6:08:32 it's in an area where the homes have septic tanks.
6:08:35 We dealt with that last year.
6:08:40 I don't know if this clicker works.
6:08:43 So our agenda tonight is to first talk about the
6:08:45 capital improvement plan.
6:08:47 First, I want to go through what you've heard
6:08:51 before on the five major projects, and then I
6:08:56 would like to cover six neighborhood projects as
6:09:01 examples throughout the improvement area.
6:09:06 Then Sonya Little will do a financial overview or
6:09:14 give a financial overview and also cover the hard
6:09:17 ship program, then our subject matter expert,
6:09:24 Camille Tharpe, who I will introduce later, is on
6:09:27 by telephone, and she will provide the ESU
6:09:29 methodology or equivalent stormwater unit
6:09:33 methodology background.
6:09:35 Then we'll finish with a summary and questions and
6:09:37 answers.
6:09:43 Our capital improvement plan consists of the five
6:09:48 major projects and about 150 neighborhood capital
6:09:53 improvement projects, and so the first 1-5, major
6:09:57 projects, total about $190 million, and the
6:10:04 neighborhood capital improvement projects total
6:10:11 61, for a grand total of $251 million.
6:10:15 The map here shows both major projects and
6:10:17 neighborhood projects, but it also shows the
6:10:21 improvement area, which is between Fowler Avenue
6:10:23 and MacDill Air Force base.
6:10:27 So first I would like to cover the major projects.
6:10:32 The first one being the upper peninsula flooding
6:10:35 relief, and it is construction of a major box
6:10:40 culvert system to alleviate structural, street,
6:10:42 and yard flooding.
6:10:45 The flooding is on Manhattan Avenue, Dale Mabry
6:10:49 Highway, from Henderson Avenue to Neptune Street
6:10:51 as well as flooding throughout the area
6:10:52 neighborhoods.
6:10:55 The project also includes sediment and trash
6:10:59 collecting devices to reduce pollutant loading to
6:11:01 old Tampa Bay.
6:11:07 The next project is called North Tampa Closed
6:11:10 Basin Flooding Relief, and this is an area between
6:11:15 97th Avenue on the south, 17th Street on the west,
6:11:18 Linebaugh on the north, and 24th Street on the
6:11:19 east.
6:11:24 The properties in this area experience frequent
6:11:27 severe flooding due to a lack of a positive
6:11:29 outfall, and that's why they call it a closed
6:11:34 basin, so stormwater ponds and the piping and
6:11:35 inlet system will be constructed to alleviate
6:11:39 flooding in this area.
6:11:44 Next is a Cypress Creek outfall extension, and
6:11:47 this project is the construction of a major trunk
6:11:52 line on Cypress Street from Gomez to North
6:11:57 Boulevard, and another box culvert from -- on Cass
6:12:02 Street from Rome Avenue to the Boulevard, and they
6:12:05 will connect into the recently constructed cypress
6:12:09 outfall on North Boulevard and Cypress Street.
6:12:12 The project will relieve flooding in the basin, as
6:12:16 shown on the picture on the final slide.
6:12:20 The next one is southeast Seminole Heights
6:12:23 flooding relief, and this is construction of
6:12:25 flooding relief projects throughout the southeast
6:12:30 Seminole Heights study area, comprised -- it's
6:12:32 comprised of approximately 900 acres, generally
6:12:37 east of number Avenue between Hillsborough Avenue
6:12:40 and Chelsea Street.
6:12:45 Finally, on the major projects, we have the lower
6:12:47 peninsula flooding relief.
6:12:52 This is going to be comprised of construction of
6:12:55 projects identified by the lower peninsula study,
6:12:58 which we are just now getting under way, and
6:13:00 includes major outfalls, ponds, and neighborhood
6:13:06 conveyance systems.
6:13:10 So next I'd like to focus on some examples of
6:13:11 neighborhood projects throughout the improvement
6:13:16 area, so we -- we -- again, we have approximately
6:13:19 150 of these type of projects, and I would like to
6:13:20 highlight six of them.
6:13:25 So our -- our first neighborhood project is what
6:13:34 we call Chelsea Street flooding relief, and it
6:13:37 will be constructing improvements to relieve
6:13:40 flooding near Chelsea Street just east of Nebraska
6:13:41 Avenue.
6:13:44 Next is the Robles Park pumping station
6:13:47 replacement, where we will be replacing the
6:13:51 pumping station, and this is an aging facility
6:13:55 that's reaching the end of its useful life.
6:14:00 The third one is Sparkman Street flooding relief,
6:14:02 and this is construction of a new pipe and inlet
6:14:10 system from Sparkman Street on Interbay to
6:14:12 Westshore Boulevard, and it will tie into an
6:14:14 existing system on Westshore Boulevard to relieve
6:14:18 flooding on Sparkman and Interbay.
6:14:20 The next one is called the Ybor City trolley
6:14:25 tracks, and it is where the Hartline trolley
6:14:28 tracks has flooding issues due to low areas and
6:14:33 inadequate conveyance, and it is at 13th Street
6:14:39 between 5th Avenue and 6th Avenue.
6:14:44 The next one is at 17th Street and Annona Avenue,
6:14:49 and this is an area just west of the North Tampa
6:14:51 closed basin area, and the proposed improvements
6:14:55 will include construction of a new stormwater
6:14:59 system from 17th Street and Annona and then zigzag
6:15:06 over to Linebaugh and 17th Street.
6:15:08 And then the last neighborhood project I'd like to
6:15:13 highlight is Forest Hills flooding relief, and
6:15:17 this is near Forest Hills Drive and Country Club
6:15:20 Drive, which experiences flooding.
6:15:22 It's primarily roadway flooding, but it can get
6:15:23 pretty bad.
6:15:26 The project consists of construction of a new
6:15:28 pond, expanding of an existing pond, and then
6:15:32 connecting the pipeline system to convey the flow
6:15:33 to the lake.
6:15:36 I know I haven't done that before, but I wanted to
6:15:39 highlight some of the neighborhood projects that
6:15:42 we will be both performing in-house and retaining
6:15:45 consulting engineers to get going on those right
6:15:46 away.
6:15:54 So with that, I will turn it over to Sonya, if
6:15:57 you'll bring the presentation back up, to provide
6:15:59 the financial overview.
6:16:00 Thank you.
6:16:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Before we go to Ms. Little, I want
6:16:04 to make sure if there's any questions about the
6:16:07 project list or project questions, anything like
6:16:08 that right now?
6:16:10 Mr. Miranda, go ahead.
6:16:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Baird, on the total, you
6:16:16 have $251,285,000.
6:16:18 The is that the total cost of the project
6:16:19 including interest?
6:16:23 >> That's the total cost but does not include
6:16:23 interest.
6:16:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Why would that be without
6:16:28 interest?
6:16:32 >>BRAD BAIRD: I'll let Sonya answer that.
6:16:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
6:16:35 Any other questions of Mr. Baird before we get
6:16:36 Ms. Little up here?
6:16:36 Okay.
6:16:37 Ms. Little.
6:16:43 >>SONYA LITTLE: Good evening, Mr. Chairman,
6:16:46 council members, Sonya Little, Revenue and
6:16:46 Finance.
6:16:50 I will provide the financial overview, which
6:16:53 Mr. Miranda, I'll also answer your question as we
6:16:57 walk through, talking about the funding.
6:17:01 We can start with slide 14, please.
6:17:04 Provided on this slide are all the program funding
6:17:09 sources, and taking each one of them line by line,
6:17:11 starting out with the stormwater assessment bonds,
6:17:16 very similar to our discussion last year, in order
6:17:19 to fund a project of this -- project of this
6:17:29 magnitude -- project of this magnitude,
6:17:37 $251,285,000 for the entire stormwater plan,
6:17:41 capital plan, we would have to issue stormwater
6:17:44 assessment bonds that are secured by the
6:17:49 stormwater fee to be collected over several years,
6:17:53 $181,285,000 in bonds.
6:17:57 The final maturity of those bonds would be two
6:18:01 series, the first to be issued in 2017, totaling
6:18:05 about $110 million, and the second series to be
6:18:08 issued in fiscal year 2021 for the balance of
6:18:12 about $71 million in proceeds.
6:18:14 The reason that we're doing these bonds in two
6:18:18 separate series is to mirror the construction
6:18:22 schedule for the projects to avoid issuing debt
6:18:25 prior to when it's needed, and also to give us
6:18:28 time to seek and try and secure additional grant
6:18:34 funding, so, Mr. Miranda, to your question, the
6:18:38 two series, one of which is $110 million roughly
6:18:43 for FY 16 plus the $71 million anticipated to be
6:18:48 issued in 2021, that principal amount and
6:18:55 estimated interest of $157 million over 30 years.
6:18:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me.
6:19:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Go ahead, Mr. Miranda.
6:19:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For my own calculation, I'm not
6:19:07 as smart as you, 250, and then you said 170 in
6:19:08 interest?
6:19:11 >>SONYA LITTLE: 157 in interest.
6:19:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 157.
6:19:15 I'm sorry, I quoted the wrong number.
6:19:17 So it's about 408 million?
6:19:19 >>SONYA LITTLE: So, for this bond issue, the whole
6:19:22 amount is $181 million.
6:19:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The interest portion is 181?
6:19:28 >>SONYA LITTLE: The principal amount is 181, and
6:19:31 then added to that the interest over 30 years, 157
6:19:32 million.
6:19:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand the principal of
6:19:36 the bond, but you also -- that community
6:19:39 investment tax is still tax money, the stormwater
6:19:41 cash fund is still grant money, and grants are
6:19:43 really your money coming back, so the way I look
6:19:44 at it it's 251.
6:19:47 I'm sorry to disagree with you, but that's how I
6:19:48 look at it.
6:19:49 I understand.
6:19:49 I understand.
6:19:51 I'm not at all against you.
6:19:53 I understand what you said.
6:19:54 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yeah.
6:19:57 So to that point, additional bonds that were --
6:20:02 that were -- this was part of the CIT program that
6:20:03 council approved a couple of weeks ago.
6:20:08 Part of that community investment tax program to
6:20:11 issue debt for the remaining ten years of the tax
6:20:17 -- when the tax sunsets in 2026, the additional
6:20:21 $20 million from project costs coming from that
6:20:23 program, with then considering stormwater
6:20:25 assessment cash-funded projects because we are not
6:20:29 using 100% of the revenues coming in from the
6:20:31 stormwater fee to pay debt.
6:20:33 Some of the projects will be paid to fund reserves
6:20:40 and also to fund projects on a pay-go basis, on a
6:20:43 cash-funded basis, and also, as we just mentioned,
6:20:45 to help to secure because we have to have match
6:20:50 funding in order to secure grants that Mr. Baird
6:20:53 will get into a little bit farther into the
6:20:56 presentation about the grants that we have on hold
6:21:02 pending a funding source to provide the matching.
6:21:05 So the benefits of the program is that the debt is
6:21:09 issued in two separate series for the stormwater
6:21:11 assessment bonds so that we're not issuing more
6:21:15 debt than we need to and that it coincides and
6:21:22 matches up with the project construction schedule.
6:21:26 So what all of this means as far as the
6:21:31 corresponding rates for the program -- and you're
6:21:35 all aware that for residential we have small,
6:21:39 medium, large, and very large tiers.
6:21:44 All of this will be explained by our expert, who
6:21:46 will provide additional information later on in
6:21:48 the presentation, but before we get into the
6:21:51 details about -- of about how the tiers are
6:21:55 arrived and developed, we can first talk about,
6:21:57 since we're talking about the financial --
6:22:00 providing the financial overview, we can first
6:22:03 talk about what that means.
6:22:05 For the improvement program --
6:22:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hold on a moment.
6:22:08 Mr. Cohen.
6:22:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Before you go forward, I just want
6:22:11 to clarify something about this chart that you're
6:22:12 showing here.
6:22:14 2021 is not the last year.
6:22:16 >>SONYA LITTLE: It is not.
6:22:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Of the assessment.
6:22:20 That's what the assessment will be for the
6:22:23 remaining 25 years, correct?
6:22:24 >>SONYA LITTLE: That's correct.
6:22:27 >>HARRY COHEN: When does it sunset?
6:22:31 >>SONYA LITTLE: 2046.
6:22:34 >>HARRY COHEN: It doesn't sunset --
6:22:36 >>SONYA LITTLE: It remains flat at those levels
6:22:38 unless otherwise --
6:22:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
6:22:41 Thank you.
6:22:44 >>SONYA LITTLE: So starting out in 2016 for a
6:22:46 small single-family that falls into a building
6:22:49 footprint of 100 to 1300 square feet, and we'll
6:22:52 also get into what the ESUs mean, the equivalent
6:22:57 stormwater units, at .61, the corresponding rates
6:23:06 in the year 2016 would be $27.44 for the tax year.
6:23:11 Then, obviously, in '17 all the way through 2021,
6:23:19 capping at $54.63 per year or $4.55 per month for
6:23:23 the calendar year starting in 2021 or I should say
6:23:31 the tax year 2021 through 2046 at that rate.
6:23:37 Now, unlike the original proposal, these rates are
6:23:40 slightly lower because we are including in the
6:23:44 rate structure the $20 million coming from the CIT
6:23:46 program, so funding for the special assessment
6:23:51 bonds is lower, the funding requirement.
6:23:57 Same information for medium single-family
6:24:00 residents with a building footprint, though, of
6:24:04 1,301 to 2200 square feet or one ESU.
6:24:11 Again, all of this information will be provided by
6:24:13 Ms. Camille Tharpe later on in the presentation,
6:24:16 but just to point out that in 2016, the annual
6:24:21 rate of $44.99 or monthly rate, if you were to
6:24:25 spread it out over the year, of $3.75, phasing in
6:24:31 -- and we decided to phase in also, in order to
6:24:33 provide some relief to our residents, number one,
6:24:36 and then number two, we have the ability to do so
6:24:41 because we're also phasing in the debt so it
6:24:46 increases year over year, and then at 2000 -- in
6:24:50 2021 for a medium single-family home through 2046
6:24:58 at $7.46 per month.
6:25:00 We provided the same rate information.
6:25:02 This is for a large single-family residence with a
6:25:07 building footprint of 2,201 to 4,000 square feet
6:25:15 or 1.66 ESUs and then finally for very large
6:25:18 single-family residents having a footprint greater
6:25:27 than 4,000 square feet or 2.82 ESUs.
6:25:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Go ahead, Mr. Cohen.
6:25:32 >>HARRY COHEN: For clarification purpose, when
6:25:33 people are looking at this, you're talking about
6:25:37 how many square feet around your house, correct?
6:25:38 >>SONYA LITTLE: Correct.
6:25:39 >>HARRY COHEN: That's the way you would look at
6:25:41 it, correct?
6:25:44 >>SONYA LITTLE: It's not total square footage if
6:25:46 you would look at a home.
6:25:50 >> On the size of the building going upward in
6:25:52 height, it's no difference?
6:25:54 >>SONYA LITTLE: For a single-family home, and
6:25:56 Ms. Camille Tharpe will get into that detail to
6:25:58 provide you --
6:26:01 >> I don't know who she is, but she sounds awful
6:26:03 smart already.
6:26:04 >>SONYA LITTLE: She's going to provide you with
6:26:06 all that information.
6:26:20 So to provide assistance to our seniors,
6:26:23 low-income residents, we're implementing what
6:26:25 we're calling a hardship program, and what are
6:26:27 provided on this slide are the eligibility
6:26:31 requirements in order to participate in this
6:26:32 program.
6:26:37 A homeowner must be at least 65 or unable to work
6:26:38 because of a disability.
6:26:41 They have to be at 30% of area median income, and
6:26:49 those levels are provided on slide -- on this
6:26:52 slide the property characteristics to be eligible
6:26:55 for the program is it must be a single-family
6:26:57 property with homestead exemptions, owner
6:26:59 occupied, with a taxable value of less than
6:27:04 $100,000 after exemptions.
6:27:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. --
6:27:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that an individual with a
6:27:13 wife and kids or just an individual by himself or
6:27:14 herself?
6:27:18 >>SONYA LITTLE: One person.
6:27:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yeah, I understand
6:27:22 single-family, but are we talking about
6:27:24 single-family that's married with two kids or just
6:27:25 one person living in the house?
6:27:27 >>SONYA LITTLE: You're talking about a
6:27:29 single-family property, I'm sorry, Mr. Miranda.
6:27:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, what I'm trying to
6:27:34 say is when I say a single-family, it means one
6:27:37 person owns the house but he's married, it's in
6:27:40 his name, he's got kids or whatever.
6:27:43 >>SONYA LITTLE: It's that house hold.
6:27:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One single person in the
6:27:46 household?
6:27:49 >>SONYA LITTLE: One person living alone --
6:27:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Living alone.
6:27:52 That's what I wanted to get on the record.
6:27:55 >>SONYA LITTLE: Additionally, the property
6:27:58 characteristics, carrying on, I began to talk
6:28:01 about the property value of $100,000 after
6:28:06 exemptions, are with a $50,000 exemption, the --
6:28:08 prior to the exemptions, the property could be
6:28:11 valued as much as $150,000, but taking $50,000
6:28:16 exemptions, as many homes are qualified for, would
6:28:20 land them at a taxable value of $100,000, and it
6:28:26 must be assessed at 1.0 ESU or less.
6:28:31 So it does not apply to the large and very large
6:28:33 homes.
6:28:44 The application requirements are a homeowner must
6:28:48 file no later than April 1st to qualify for an
6:28:50 exemption, they must prepare and submit an
6:28:54 application with required income, disability, or
6:28:56 -- and documentation, and just to point out that
6:28:58 our program is going to mirror the exact program
6:29:05 requirements that the Hillsborough County property
6:29:07 appraiser has, so anyone who receives exemptions
6:29:10 under the Hillsborough County property appraiser,
6:29:12 our program mirrors that as far as the required
6:29:22 documentation is concerned, so it's not like they
6:29:24 have to create something that they wouldn't
6:29:25 ordinarily have to create.
6:29:30 There is annual certification where they send out
6:29:32 a notice for self-certification, and we would ask
6:29:35 that everybody resubmit an application to renew
6:29:38 exemption every three years, again, mirroring that
6:29:45 of the Hillsborough County Property Appraiser.
6:29:49 We provided quite a bit of outreach.
6:29:51 We wanted all of the homeowners to know that this
6:29:54 program is available.
6:29:56 There have been neighborhood meetings.
6:30:02 There's been correspondence that's gone out to the
6:30:07 presidents of our neighborhood associations.
6:30:10 In -- the mail correspondence, everyone has
6:30:12 received the initial public notice with reference
6:30:16 to this hardship program, and it also -- the
6:30:19 information is included on the City of Tampa's
6:30:23 website along with frequently asked questions
6:30:27 about the improvement assessment and the hardship
6:30:27 program.
6:30:30 We've conducted in-house training for all of our
6:30:39 customer service representatives who take both
6:30:42 walk-in customers as well as take phone calls.
6:30:44 The information is and will be advertised on the
6:30:49 City of Tampa Television Station and also outreach
6:30:50 via social media.
6:31:01 And Mr. Chair, if there's no other questions --
6:31:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Reddick.
6:31:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
6:31:10 Let me ask you about the hardship program, is it
6:31:12 my understanding that this will be funded out of
6:31:15 the general revenue fund, is that correct?
6:31:17 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes, sir.
6:31:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Now, suppose we have a downturn
6:31:21 in the economy where we're not generating the type
6:31:23 of dollars that is necessary to maintain certain
6:31:26 services in the general revenue fund.
6:31:28 Say, for example, hypothetically in two, three
6:31:31 years from now, funds would not be available to
6:31:35 continue this program what would happen with this
6:31:38 program and what would happen for the people who
6:31:40 sign up for it?
6:31:42 >>SONYA LITTLE: As it stands right now,
6:31:44 Mr. Reddick -- thank you for the question, because
6:31:46 I failed to mention that the program is being
6:31:48 funded by general fund revenues.
6:31:50 We are required to do that because we cannot
6:31:53 exempt users from paying the fee and pass that
6:31:57 burden on to the remaining ratepayers, so the
6:31:59 general fund, number one, is required to do it,
6:32:03 and we took -- for example, for FY17, we budgeted
6:32:07 very, very conservatively, assuming based on our
6:32:10 demographic information that 100% of those who are
6:32:14 eligible will apply and receive the hardship, so
6:32:17 whenever we come back to you during our normal
6:32:21 course of certification, this will also be a part
6:32:24 of the process for City Council to approve the
6:32:27 funding as well during the budget process and for
6:32:29 the approval of the non-ad valorem assessments,
6:32:34 which you also do for streetcar, Westshore,
6:32:35 downtown districts, for example.
6:32:37 It will now become part of that process, that
6:32:39 non-ad valorem process.
6:32:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
6:32:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Miranda.
6:32:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very
6:32:45 much.
6:32:50 Along Mr. Reddick's questioning, he was talking
6:32:52 about the funding of these individuals that
6:32:53 unfortunately need help.
6:32:55 How many of them do we have that fall into that
6:33:00 category, is it 100, 500, a thousand, 2,000?
6:33:00 I don't know.
6:33:02 >>SONYA LITTLE: It was roughly a thousand, sir.
6:33:05 If we were to look at the taxable value of less
6:33:12 than 100,000 and fit within the 1.0 ESU -- I'm
6:33:14 sorry.
6:33:17 Within the -- the improvement area, not citywide,
6:33:21 where the special assessment would -- would
6:33:27 qualify, if you took 100% of the properties,
6:33:30 number one, that would be meeting the minimum
6:33:35 criteria, it would be roughly 52,000 homes.
6:33:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How many?
6:33:39 >>SONYA LITTLE: 52,000 homes that fall within the
6:33:42 criteria, but if you layer on to that of the
6:33:48 52,000 homes, we have roughly at 30% of AMI, the
6:33:50 income requirement --
6:33:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For a 15,000 homes?
6:34:00 >>SONYA LITTLE: -- that takes it down to 2200.
6:34:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What was the --
6:34:07 >>SONYA LITTLE: For a small home it starts at
6:34:09 $27.44 per year.
6:34:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can you calculate that for me
6:34:14 what it is at the year end, how much we're going
6:34:15 to pay for 30 years of that program?
6:34:16 Do you have that figure?
6:34:19 I'm not asking you to do it right now.
6:34:41 >>SONYA LITTLE: We're calculating it.
6:34:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
6:34:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Anything else, Mr. Miranda?
6:34:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, thank you very much.
6:34:52 >>HARRY COHEN: I want to ask you a hypothetical
6:34:56 question based on Councilman Reddick's question to
6:34:57 you.
6:34:59 If any kind of exemption has to be funded out of
6:35:01 the general fund and it has to be recertified
6:35:04 every year when we do the budget, does that mean a
6:35:06 year or two from now if this City Council or
6:35:14 another City Council wanted to exempt a certain
6:35:17 population with a certain type of hardship -- and
6:35:19 I'm not going to speculate about what that might
6:35:22 be, but we talk through a lot of different
6:35:25 examples of different populations that may or may
6:35:28 not be burdened by this type of an assessments.
6:35:31 Does that mean on a year-to-year basis that we
6:35:33 could consider that at budget time, as long as the
6:35:36 money to pay the difference came out of our
6:35:39 general revenue budget?
6:35:42 I guess where I'm going is that Councilman Reddick
6:35:46 mentioned a downturn, but I guess the other option
6:35:48 might be an upturn where you have some money,
6:35:52 would you be able to use some of that to actually
6:35:56 exempt or rebate certain properties from the
6:36:00 assessment as long as you paid it?
6:36:05 >>JAN McLEAN: Jan McLean.
6:36:08 The Council on an annual basis, when we come back
6:36:11 for recertification, if the Council decided to
6:36:13 include an additional exemption for a use where
6:36:17 you had determined it had a public purpose, we
6:36:19 would include that exemption, but it would have to
6:36:22 be funded, like the hardship program, from funds
6:36:24 other than the stormwater assessment.
6:36:28 >>HARRY COHEN: So the answer is yes, it could be
6:36:28 done?
6:36:31 >>JAN McLEAN: It could be done.
6:36:33 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
6:36:41 >>SONYA LITTLE: Mr. Miranda, if we believe what we
6:36:45 assume that 100% apply and qualify, roughly the
6:36:48 300,000 over 30 years, we think that would be a
6:36:50 good average on annual basis.
6:36:53 We were checking our demographics.
6:36:56 That would total over 30 years $9 million.
6:36:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: $9 million?
6:37:00 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes, sir.
6:37:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
6:37:10 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
6:37:13 The next part of the presentation is a stormwater
6:37:16 methodology overview, and before I introduce our
6:37:20 subject matter expert, I would like to apologize.
6:37:24 We couldn't get her down here in person.
6:37:28 Her office is in Tallahassee, so she's staring
6:37:34 down Hurricane Hermine right now, but she is on by
6:37:35 telephone, hopefully.
6:37:38 >> I am.
6:37:39 >>BRAD BAIRD: You're here.
6:37:39 All right.
6:37:39 Thank you.
6:37:42 Her name is Camille Tharpe, and she's the senior
6:37:45 vice president of Governmental Services Group.
6:37:47 Ms. Tharpe has vast knowledge of development,
6:37:49 implementation, and maintenance of special
6:37:51 assessment programs.
6:37:54 She has directed more than 5,000 special
6:37:56 assessment programs.
6:37:59 She is designated by the courts as an expert in
6:38:01 development and implementation of special
6:38:04 assessment programs, and Ms. Tharpe has testified
6:38:09 as an expert witness in several cases on behalf of
6:38:11 local governments in defense of several special
6:38:16 assessment programs, and she served as the City of
6:38:18 Tampa's project manager and continues in that
6:38:25 capacity on -- she served in 2003 and actually
6:38:31 lived here a year in setting up the assessment and
6:38:34 overseeing the statistical analysis as well, and
6:38:37 then she continues in that capacity to this day,
6:38:42 and so with that, I will turn it over to Camille
6:38:43 Tharpe.
6:38:44 >> Okay.
6:38:46 Can you all hear me?
6:38:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes, ma'am, go ahead.
6:38:49 >> Okay.
6:38:51 I do apologize for not getting down there, but the
6:38:55 weather is getting bad up here, and we're getting
6:38:58 prepared for the hurricane.
6:39:01 Can we go to slide 23?
6:39:09 Today I'm going to talk about a couple things in a
6:39:12 methodology overview.
6:39:15 One is the background of the methodology --
6:39:17 >>BRAD BAIRD: Hold on.
6:39:18 Camille, hold on.
6:39:18 This is Brad.
6:39:22 We don't have the presentation back up again.
6:39:22 Okay.
6:39:23 There we go.
6:39:24 >> Okay.
6:39:27 So the background of the project, the data we used
6:39:30 to develop the methodology, the statistical
6:39:33 modeling we used for the sampling of the parcels
6:39:40 for the single-family and multifamily, the
6:39:43 methodology results, and then a discussion about
6:39:48 other Florida stormwater utility programs.
6:39:49 Okay.
6:39:51 If we could go to slide 24.
6:39:53 >> Yes.
6:39:54 >> Okay.
6:39:56 As discussed, I was the project manager in 2003
6:39:59 and I stayed involved in the project the first
6:39:59 year.
6:40:03 I was the person who wrote the report in 2003.
6:40:06 I calculated the rates in 2003.
6:40:12 I directed the data collection and I also trained
6:40:14 a couple of service people in answering the phones
6:40:16 in the first year when we developed the program.
6:40:19 The phase I report was delivered in July of 2003
6:40:23 and has some very specific recommendations.
6:40:28 We recommended that the City of Tampa use a
6:40:31 methodology based on impervious area and that the
6:40:33 stormwater assessment be collected on the tax
6:40:34 bill.
6:40:37 The Phase II report was delivered in August of
6:40:40 2003, and in that report, we provided the results
6:40:45 of our study, which included -- we developed an
6:40:50 ESU value for the City, we created the tiers for
6:40:51 the residential properties, and we calculated the
6:40:52 rate.
6:40:59 The program was implemented in September of 2003.
6:41:00 I attended the public hearing.
6:41:03 The assessment program is updated annually.
6:41:06 The impervious area is updated annually to
6:41:09 maintain the data validity, and the legal
6:41:12 procedures occur every year so that we can ensure
6:41:15 legal defensibility.
6:41:16 Slide 25.
6:41:20 >> It's up.
6:41:23 >> The data we used came from the tax roll data
6:41:27 from the Hillsborough County Property Appraiser.
6:41:31 We used the Department of Revenue use codes that
6:41:33 are assigned by the property appraiser to assign
6:41:35 the tax parcels within the City to these
6:41:37 categories that you see on the slide.
6:41:42 We obtained the original data in May of 2003.
6:41:45 That data was updated a couple of times, and
6:41:48 finally in August of 2003 we updated the data to
6:41:51 reflect all of the changes to the tax roll data
6:41:53 that the property appraiser might have made as he
6:41:56 was going through his determination of value that
6:42:00 year, and we updated the data prior to sending out
6:42:05 the first class mailed notices in August of 2003.
6:42:10 Of the 1 -- almost 120,000 total tax parcels, over
6:42:12 82,000 parcels were classified as single-family
6:42:13 residential.
6:42:17 That's approximately 68% of the properties.
6:42:19 Because of the large number of single-family
6:42:23 residential parcels, the courts have recognized
6:42:29 the use of samplings for these parcels to assign
6:42:33 ESUs to them; however, even though we sampled
6:42:39 those properties the parcels and the 15,247
6:42:43 general parcels was measured for each tax parcel,
6:42:44 and that was a huge task.
6:42:47 We're very proud of the fact that we got this done
6:42:50 in a relatively short period of time with city
6:42:53 staff working on that.
6:42:55 Slide 26.
6:43:02 Talking about statistical modeling and what we
6:43:06 used to develop these sample sizes.
6:43:14 We hired Dr. Steven Payne as our advisor to the
6:43:18 City on the types and the size of sampling that we
6:43:21 should do to get a valid statistical sample, and
6:43:26 just so you know, Dr. Payne's graduate degrees are
6:43:28 in statistics and research design, and he assisted
6:43:31 us in developing, again, the size of the samples
6:43:34 and the type of statistics we should use.
6:43:39 We used, based on his recommendation, proportional
6:43:43 stratified random sampling, and what that does, it
6:43:45 divides members of a population in subgroups
6:43:50 before you sample, so we came in and we divided
6:43:57 the properties into the preliminary size groups
6:43:58 before we did the sampling.
6:44:02 This kind of sampling is used when subgroups are
6:44:05 desired, and this kind of sampling ensures that at
6:44:09 least one observation is collected from each
6:44:10 subgroup.
6:44:13 There are several advantages to this proportional
6:44:16 stratified random sampling in that it gives a
6:44:20 smaller error in estimation.
6:44:23 It's used when a researcher wants to highlight
6:44:25 specific subgroups within the population, and that
6:44:28 was important because we were going to identify
6:44:32 that average single-family house and get that
6:44:34 average ESU value.
6:44:36 It's used when the researcher wants to observe
6:44:41 existing relationships between these subgroups.
6:44:43 It representatively samples even the smallest and
6:44:49 inaccessible subgroups within the population.
6:44:52 It results in higher statistical precision, and
6:44:54 because of that higher precision, this technique
6:44:58 requires a smaller sample size, so we've used this
6:45:02 statistical modeling in Tampa, we've used it in
6:45:06 every other project we've conducted in the State
6:45:09 of Florida on stormwater, just so you know -- to
6:45:13 finish working on it, using it in the City of
6:45:14 Miami Beach stormwater update.
6:45:17 So if we can go to page 27.
6:45:24 This chart shows the original sampling parameters
6:45:30 developed by Dr. Payne to achieve 95% confidence
6:45:32 intervals for the single-family residential tiers
6:45:33 that you have.
6:45:36 Based on the model developed by Dr. Payne, we
6:45:38 identified specific single-family residential
6:45:42 parcels that need to be measured, their impervious
6:45:44 area needed to be measured.
6:45:46 Although only 219 parcels were originally
6:45:49 identified for the single-family residential
6:45:54 sampling, another 298 parcels were also originally
6:45:57 identified for sampling for the multifamily
6:46:00 properties, and the City actually measured over
6:46:03 15,000 additional parcels that the general --
6:46:06 within the general parcel and condo categories.
6:46:11 The sampling process we used is -- that's part of
6:46:12 the sampling.
6:46:15 You don't go in to ideas about what you're going
6:46:16 to get.
6:46:20 You're going to use the sample to develop results.
6:46:24 The -- the sample size, the points for the tiers
6:46:27 and the other parameters we started with were
6:46:31 further refined in the summer of 2003 as we
6:46:34 developed the fieldwork, and the final ESU values
6:46:38 you use today and the tiers that you use today was
6:46:41 developed by the model of Dr. Payne.
6:46:42 Okay.
6:46:44 If we can go to slide 28.
6:46:51 Them slide shows the results of the application of
6:46:55 the methodology that we developed in 2003.
6:46:57 This methodology has carried forward since then
6:47:00 and is used for both your stormwater service
6:47:02 assessment and the proposed stormwater capital
6:47:05 improvement assessment.
6:47:11 Under your methodology, the ERU value is 3,310
6:47:12 square feet of impervious area.
6:47:14 There are five rate classes.
6:47:17 There are four tiers for the single-family rate
6:47:18 classes.
6:47:21 There are three tiers for the multifamily rate
6:47:23 classes.
6:47:25 Condominiums and general parcels were measured and
6:47:28 are based on their actual impervious area.
6:47:33 And this methodology is updated annually to
6:47:37 continue the data validity that was developed back
6:47:37 in 2003.
6:47:41 Page 29.
6:47:46 Each year the City annually applies the
6:47:48 methodology to continue to confirm the data
6:47:51 validity and legal defensibility of the Stormwater
6:47:53 Assessment Program.
6:47:55 The tax roll each year is obtained from the
6:47:57 property appraiser, and we compare the prior
6:48:02 year's assessment roll to the new tax roll data to
6:48:04 find changes.
6:48:07 That property appraiser data is used to verify or
6:48:11 update existing classification requirement, for
6:48:15 example, the single-family house is demolished and
6:48:17 a duplex is put there or a commercial build
6:48:20 something demolished and a bunch of apartments are
6:48:23 built, so we're looking at that -- the data could
6:48:28 change every year -- and make sure we gather new
6:48:31 information to support those changes.
6:48:34 The property appraiser data's also used to update
6:48:36 the building footprint, which is then used to
6:48:38 confirm both the single-family and multifamily
6:48:41 tiers, and we also use the property appraiser data
6:48:43 to mail notices to the property owners, if
6:48:46 required.
6:48:51 This is a legally defensible methodology.
6:48:54 As a court recognized expert in special
6:48:57 assessments, I can testify that the methodology is
6:48:59 a legally defensible methodology.
6:49:01 The impervious area method is based on a national
6:49:05 and Florida industry standards, and the next slide
6:49:08 discusses other stormwater programs in Florida.
6:49:11 So slide 30.
6:49:16 This slide provides a summary of stormwater
6:49:19 programs in Florida and is prepared by the Florida
6:49:21 Stormwater Association.
6:49:24 Of the 165 stormwater utility programs in Florida,
6:49:28 70% use an impervious area methodology.
6:49:35 The ones that use an impervious and gross area
6:49:38 methodology have subdivisions that have not yet
6:49:40 developed but have altered stormwater and impacted
6:49:44 the stormwater management system, the impervious
6:49:47 area methodology is the most common methodology.
6:49:50 It's been upheld by the courts and it's the
6:49:55 simplest methodology to explain.
6:49:57 The overview of the stormwater programs, the
6:50:02 statewide average ESU value is 2,842 swear feet of
6:50:05 impervious area, and when you compare that to the
6:50:10 City's value of 3,310 square feet, you're in line
6:50:13 with some of the other cities and counties in the
6:50:16 state that are using stormwater assessments on
6:50:18 their stormwater services.
6:50:22 So hopefully you all weren't waving your hands
6:50:24 asking for questions.
6:50:27 I'm open for questions right now.
6:50:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
6:50:28 Any questions from Council?
6:50:30 Mr. Miranda.
6:50:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very
6:50:33 much.
6:50:36 I just heard a young lady named Camille Tharpe
6:50:39 speak, and she must know what she's talking about
6:50:41 because if not, she wouldn't be talking to us from
6:50:42 Tallahassee.
6:50:46 Anybody from Tallahassee is smarter than we are.
6:50:49 >> Thank you.
6:50:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're not there yet.
6:50:52 You're halfway there.
6:50:54 You're around Jamesville right now.
6:50:56 [Laughter]
6:50:58 But just let me say this.
6:51:00 This morning I came in about 7:30 in the morning
6:51:02 and started looking around.
6:51:04 I remember something in 2002, and the only one
6:51:10 around here that can speak about 2002 is maybe
6:51:12 yourself, Mr. Baird, and myself, and maybe one
6:51:16 other, and I remember Mr. Ralph Metcalfe, and I
6:51:19 remember this came under Mayor Greco, and I
6:51:23 remember this started -- I pulled the file out,
6:51:25 finally found it this morning thanks to the
6:51:28 Clerk's Office and my aide Mary Bryant, and it was
6:51:32 file number E-2002-8, and then the Resolution
6:51:37 Number was 2002-1524.
6:51:38 Do you remember that one about stormwater
6:51:39 assessment?
6:51:42 And it passed, and I voted for it.
6:51:45 Well, I thought I did, but then following up, I
6:51:48 couldn't find the rest of it.
6:51:52 I think it started in December 19th of 2002,
6:51:57 2-0-0-2, and it was passed in 2003, and I don't
6:52:01 know if it was passed before I left office -- I
6:52:04 didn't really leave office, I just didn't get
6:52:05 enough votes.
6:52:06 [Laughter]
6:52:09 Or after I didn't get enough votes, so I believe
6:52:11 this is what you're speaking about.
6:52:13 I'm not 100% sure.
6:52:15 I know there was a debate so large that it wasn't
6:52:19 in this chamber, it was in the convention center.
6:52:22 >> It was.
6:52:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Am I correct?
6:52:26 >> Correct.
6:52:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I might have met you and didn't
6:52:31 know you were that intelligent, to be honest with
6:52:31 you.
6:52:34 So this is something that we're using from 2003
6:52:38 and 2002 or whenever it was, has it been updated?
6:52:41 And I'm looking at -- I heard what you say.
6:52:43 It's hard to memorize, even though it's in front
6:52:46 of me, everything you said, but -- and you're an
6:52:50 expert, then, on the program of utilities funding
6:52:59 these mechanisms by the volumes that you and Dr.
6:53:03 Payne have accumulated and worked on for years and
6:53:05 come up with the ESU value and so on and so forth
6:53:08 based on -- but are you an expert on guaranteeing
6:53:10 that I get a dollar value for every dollar spent
6:53:13 that my -- that this project, if I vote for it,
6:53:16 would really solve all the problems of the City or
6:53:20 just on the methodology of the program?
6:53:23 >> I'm not an -- I'm not an engineer.
6:53:29 I am an assessment expert, and I do know that the
6:53:31 law tells us that the assessments have to be fair
6:53:35 and reasonable and have benefit to property, has
6:53:38 to be proven, and I do believe that is the case in
6:53:41 the City of Tampa's methodology.
6:53:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So you have no expertise on
6:53:46 size of pipes and the volumes of pipes going out
6:53:49 to the bay and the rising of tides and none of
6:53:50 that stuff, am I correct?
6:53:52 >> No, sir.
6:53:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
6:53:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Any other questions from Council?
6:53:57 Ms. Montelione.
6:53:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
6:54:01 Thank you, Ms. Tharpe, for taking the time out
6:54:06 from protecting your home and your family from the
6:54:07 storm.
6:54:10 We were very lucky here, it bypassed us once
6:54:10 again.
6:54:13 >> Thank you.
6:54:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So a lot of the materials I
6:54:17 read for people who were voicing opposition
6:54:21 through their emails and letters to us and to the
6:54:28 mayor and to our stormwater division executives or
6:54:35 administrator -- sorry -- were concerned that
6:54:42 people who had very large homes, who were
6:54:47 generally speaking probably millionaires, haven't
6:54:50 gotten their -- I haven't gotten their tax
6:54:52 returns, so I don't know if they are or not,
6:54:57 assuming they are, are why are they paying less
6:55:05 than individuals who have more modest homes?
6:55:09 >> And is that a question to me?
6:55:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes, that is a question to you,
6:55:11 ma'am.
6:55:15 >> Based on the methodology, those very large
6:55:19 properties are paying their proportionate share of
6:55:24 the cost of the assessment of the stormwater
6:55:28 program, and they are paying more in that they're
6:55:32 assigned a higher number of ESUs than the other
6:55:34 properties.
6:55:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, one of the -- I'm sure
6:55:41 she's going to speak during public comment, and
6:55:43 I'm hoping that you're going to be here with us
6:55:47 throughout the public comment so that we can --
6:55:49 >> I can.
6:55:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Good, so we can ask you
6:55:54 questions based on some of the issues that
6:55:58 individuals raise, but -- and I don't know if you
6:56:00 were -- staff would have to tell me whether or not
6:56:04 Ms. Tharpe was provided with the spreadsheet that
6:56:08 we were provided with that shows some sample
6:56:11 calculations.
6:56:15 It has the folio number, what tier they would fall
6:56:20 into, medium, large, small, very large, the tier
6:56:24 square footage, the tier fee, the estimated actual
6:56:27 square footage -- I'm guessing that's from
6:56:33 property appraiser records -- and so on.
6:56:43 And that chart was being used to support the
6:56:52 statement that was made in a email that says how
6:56:55 is Derek Jeter paying $16 per square feet of
6:57:00 impervious surface while the writer of this email
6:57:05 was being assessed $184 per square foot?
6:57:12 Did you just randomly check any of the perceived
6:57:16 inequities from any of our large homeowners in the
6:57:24 area to see if there was a correlation?
6:57:28 >> I did not.
6:57:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Brad, was Ms. Tharpe provided
6:57:32 this?
6:57:36 >>BRAD BAIRD: She was not.
6:57:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Is there someone that can
6:57:41 address that?
6:57:44 >> In the random statistical analysis of those, I
6:57:48 believe it was 92 in that sample -- I'm sorry,
6:57:49 there was 36.
6:57:53 It was 92 in the large, so it was a random sample,
6:57:57 so I would presume that there were a few of those
6:58:00 homes that were in that -- that would fall in that
6:58:01 category.
6:58:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You're familiar with this
6:58:05 chart?
6:58:07 >>BRAD BAIRD: I am.
6:58:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I guess that's where --
6:58:11 what I'm trying to get at.
6:58:14 Is this an accurate representation?
6:58:18 Is there some explanation for -- if that's a true
6:58:22 statement, if that's a not true statement, or --
6:58:24 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, I would say that is not an
6:58:29 accurate representation and would not be an
6:58:35 accurate statistical sample for the very large
6:58:35 category.
6:58:38 I don't know that for sure because I did not do
6:58:41 the -- you know, the sampling, but it appears,
6:58:43 looking at that list, that that would not be the
6:58:48 average or the median in that group.
6:58:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
6:58:57 >>BRAD BAIRD: But that citizen, you know, will
6:59:00 certainly, I'm sure, address that.
6:59:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, and it would be great if
6:59:07 somebody could run, you know, through these
6:59:13 numbers and address why or why not they're
6:59:16 accurate or inaccurate.
6:59:19 >>BRAD BAIRD: Okay.
6:59:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That would be probably helpful.
6:59:25 Ms. Tharpe, one last question, and you may have
6:59:27 mentioned this.
6:59:29 It was a little cold in here, so I ran in my
6:59:30 office and got my sweater.
6:59:31 I could hear you talking.
6:59:39 We have it on speaker in our offices, but when you
6:59:47 -- I did hear you say that this was accepted by
6:59:51 local governments and it's on the slide, 95% of
6:59:54 local governments, is that -- and it says -- from
7:00:00 the slide, it's slide number 30.
7:00:02 Is that local governments in Florida, is that
7:00:03 local governments in the southeast?
7:00:06 >> It's local governments in Florida.
7:00:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Local governments in if
7:00:08 Florida.
7:00:10 And how many local governments in Florida have
7:00:10 user fees?
7:00:13 So I guess I'm trying to get at what is the 95%?
7:00:15 Is it --
7:00:16 >> Okay.
7:00:20 It is 165 programs in Florida or 165 programs in
7:00:26 Florida that responded to their survey.
7:00:34 95% of the 165 said they used user fees or special
7:00:41 assessments for stormwater services.
7:00:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
7:00:46 And 70% -- that's how I'm trying to get to this,
7:00:49 70% said they used the impervious --
7:00:52 >> 75% --
7:00:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm looking at the slide.
7:00:58 It was 90% of what and 75% of what?
7:01:00 >> 90% of the 165.
7:01:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
7:01:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Is that all Councilwoman?
7:01:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
7:01:10 It does say 165 24R.
7:01:12 I was just verifying.
7:01:14 >>HARRY COHEN: Any other questions before
7:01:16 Mr. Baird continues the presentation?
7:01:21 Okay.
7:01:23 And ma'am, we appreciate you sticking with us so
7:01:26 that when additional questions come up, we may be
7:01:27 able to ask you over the telephone.
7:01:29 >> I'll be glad to.
7:01:34 >>BRAD BAIRD: Okay.
7:01:36 We'll proceed with a wrap-up.
7:01:37 You know, the Capital Improvement Program
7:01:40 addresses flooding throughout the improvement
7:01:46 area.
7:01:49 The -- as Sonya Little pointed out, the mayor has
7:01:52 put forth $20 million in the community investment
7:01:55 tax to help reduce that assessment.
7:01:58 The hardship program will pay 100% of that
7:02:02 assessment for qualified residents out of a
7:02:04 different fund.
7:02:05 The methodology is sound, it's used throughout
7:02:12 Florida, and with that, I'll end with something
7:02:16 Ms. Little referred to or -- and that is without
7:02:19 the assessment, the grant applications will need
7:02:27 to be rescinded and we'll need to remove those
7:02:29 projects from future budgets and little to no
7:02:33 stormwater improvements in the foreseeable future.
7:02:37 And with that, --
7:02:40 >>HARRY COHEN: I believe Councilman Reddick has a
7:02:41 question.
7:02:42 >>BRAD BAIRD: We can open it up to questions, and
7:02:46 this is in the southeast Seminole Heights area, if
7:02:48 you are familiar with --
7:02:51 >>HARRY COHEN: I believe Councilman Reddick has a
7:02:51 question.
7:02:53 >>BRAD BAIRD: I'm sorry.
7:02:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: You just want to show me that
7:02:58 that person can swim, that's what you want to do?
7:03:00 [Laughter]
7:03:02 >>BRAD BAIRD: I don't know, I think she stayed on
7:03:03 that bike all the way around.
7:03:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you a question.
7:03:07 What is the differences between the county's
7:03:13 assessment and what you're proposing to this
7:03:14 Council tonight?
7:03:16 >>BRAD BAIRD: The Hillsborough County assessment?
7:03:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Right.
7:03:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: Is Jan here?
7:03:23 >> Jan just went out for a minute.
7:03:24 >>BRAD BAIRD: Jan stepped back.
7:03:28 Can we hold that for when Jan gets back?
7:03:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
7:03:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Any other questions of council at
7:03:32 this moment?
7:03:33 Mr. Maniscalco.
7:03:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Quick question.
7:03:37 Regarding the last item on the final slide about
7:03:39 rescinding the grant applications.
7:03:40 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.
7:03:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: If we don't pass this
7:03:44 assessment, we lose the SWFWMD grants and all
7:03:46 that, is that what you're talking about?
7:03:48 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes, a SWFWMD grant as well as the
7:03:51 $3-million FDOT grant.
7:03:52 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: If we don't pass the
7:03:52 assessment.
7:03:55 So if we were to go to some kind of alternate
7:04:00 project where we would use that $20-million CIT,
7:04:03 we couldn't apply or keep the SWFWMD grants or
7:04:04 money in place?
7:04:06 I mean, we would lose it completely?
7:04:09 >>BRAD BAIRD: We would lose it completely, and
7:04:12 that's the -- that $20 million CIT would be used
7:04:17 for other projects.
7:04:19 Other -- yeah.
7:04:22 >> [Off microphone]
7:04:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:04:25 Let them talk.
7:04:27 You're going to have your chance to talk.
7:04:30 Before we go to Mr. Miranda, Ms. McLean is back.
7:04:33 Did you have another question Mr. Maniscalco?
7:04:35 Ms. McLean, Mr. Reddick had a question for you.
7:04:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was trying to find out the
7:04:42 differences between Hillsborough County assessment
7:04:44 as it relates to what you have proposed -- what
7:04:46 the difference is between the Hillsborough County
7:04:48 assessment and what you're proposing here today.
7:04:49 Now, in particular, I'm talking about the
7:04:53 exemptions in the area of an exemption.
7:04:56 >>JAN McLEAN: I am not -- Jan McLean, Office of
7:04:57 the City Attorney.
7:04:59 I couldn't tell you what the Hillsborough County
7:05:00 assessment program is.
7:05:04 I know all the -- that it's an overview of service
7:05:05 assessment.
7:05:07 Of it doesn't appear to be a capital improvement
7:05:10 assessment, but I do not know all the methodology
7:05:15 or the exemptions therein.
7:05:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: No one from the City is aware of
7:05:20 that?
7:05:22 We're just down the street from each other.
7:05:23 We should know this.
7:05:24 [Laughter]
7:05:31 >>JAN McLEAN: Camille, you want to -- Camille,
7:05:31 this is Jan.
7:05:33 You wouldn't be aware of what the Hillsborough
7:05:35 County program is, would you?
7:05:37 >> I don't know what it is, I'm sorry.
7:05:39 I don't.
7:05:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
7:05:42 Well, hopefully I can get an answer before the
7:05:44 end --
7:05:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Councilman Reddick, I believe
7:05:50 Hillsborough County's program is $30 a year for
7:05:53 the medium and for a service assessment.
7:05:56 I believe that's what it is, because when they
7:06:00 passed that, they were trying to get below the $36
7:06:03 a year, if you remember that.
7:06:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do you know whether it included
7:06:08 any exemptions?
7:06:10 >> Maintenance, rehabilitation, and construction
7:06:14 of public stormwater conveyance and storage
7:06:16 systems, so they did include construction, my
7:06:19 apologies.
7:06:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: What about the exemption, any?
7:06:27 >>BRAD BAIRD: Oh, on the exemption, I'm sorry.
7:06:30 I do not know on that what their --
7:06:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
7:06:37 >> Just in response to the exemptions, I do know
7:06:40 that the last time they had the program that they
7:06:43 did not assess government properties, but beyond
7:06:47 those, that I'm not sure if there are any other
7:06:50 exemptions.
7:06:54 >>BRAD BAIRD: And I apologize, I misspoke, if
7:07:00 Sonya could address what your question was on the
7:07:06 Councilman Maniscalco on the 20 million of CIT.
7:07:11 >>SONYA LITTLE: Mr. Maniscalco, when the $20
7:07:16 million in CIT funds were authorized for
7:07:18 stormwater -- they were authorized for stormwater
7:07:22 purposes, for the purpose of this program.
7:07:25 If they are not used for this program, it's still
7:07:28 identified in your authorizing resolution that it
7:07:30 would go towards stormwater projects.
7:07:34 It specifically says stormwater.
7:07:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, no, go ahead.
7:07:38 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: So looking at what I have in
7:07:41 front of me, it's the upper peninsula flooding
7:07:44 relief, $40 million, which covers where Christ the
7:07:47 king is at, Henderson, Dale Mabry, Beach Park,
7:07:51 going down Manhattan, going down Henderson, going
7:07:54 to Culbreath Island, going to the water, going to
7:07:55 Watrous.
7:07:57 The complaints that I get when it comes to
7:07:59 flooding comes from this area.
7:08:04 The complaints that I've received in this summer
7:08:36 rain come from this area $20 million dead dated to
7:08:38 stormwater, SWFWMD grants, and then the $3 million
7:08:48 from D.O.T. completely pays for upper peninsula
7:08:57 flooding relief without having to charge an
7:08:57 assessment, without having to go citywide.
7:08:57 I mean, those are -- I've lived here all my life.
7:08:58 The complaints have always come from this area.
7:08:58 I don't hear Seminole Heights, I don't hear -- you
7:08:58 know, in parts of Tampa, south of Euclid, of
7:08:58 course, it will flood, Bayshore, it's flooded now
7:08:58 because it rains and there's nothing that can be
7:08:59 done, but now I'm just -- you know, just to
7:08:59 clarify that question, that, you know, we don't
7:09:00 lose that grant money because we're doing
7:09:00 something because of that $20 million CIT.
7:09:01 >>BRAD BAIRD: A decision would have to be made as
7:09:01 to whether you're going to match on that project
7:09:01 and only focus on that project, and not take care
7:09:01 of some other flooding problems where we've
7:09:02 applied for grants.
7:09:06 We -- we have applied for the Cypress Street here,
7:09:10 are going to put that in the budget, and so, you
7:09:12 know, do we pick one project over the rest of the
7:09:13 city?
7:09:15 That's a real issue.
7:09:18 We do receive complaints from all over the
7:09:21 improvement area.
7:09:24 You know, on the pictures I showed, you know, into
7:09:28 structures, North Tampa closed basin is a good
7:09:29 one, goes right into the houses.
7:09:32 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: But something that Councilman
7:09:34 Miranda brought up, the amount of interest that is
7:09:36 paid over a 30-year period on an assessment, it
7:09:44 was something -- maybe I'm wrong 150 million
7:09:44 something.
7:09:46 I have 157.
7:09:48 $157 million in interest, I could pave every road,
7:09:52 fix every pool, buy all new police cars.
7:09:54 I'm just thinking about all that money that goes
7:09:56 to just fees, interest, no matter what our bond
7:09:59 rating is or however low interest rate we get.
7:10:02 I'm just trying to think, you know, for the
7:10:02 future.
7:10:04 It's a 30-year issue.
7:10:07 I'm thinking about the restore funds or BP money
7:10:10 that will one day come to us next year or two
7:10:11 years, you know.
7:10:13 Why not move forward with this upper peninsula
7:10:17 flooding relief now and then look at this in a few
7:10:19 years with whatever money comes in, use that
7:10:22 money, go put it towards more stormwater projects,
7:10:27 and we're not spending all this, you know -- you
7:10:29 know more, you're talking about interests and
7:10:31 30-year periods, so --
7:10:32 >> [Off microphone]
7:10:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Are you done, Mr. Maniscalco?
7:10:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Yeah.
7:10:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Miranda.
7:10:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Along with the conversation, I
7:10:43 agree with everything said.
7:10:46 Did the City of Tampa ever have a backup plan if
7:10:49 this was not accepted by the six of us here today?
7:10:51 Do we have any other plan, just one, that's it,
7:10:52 take it or leave it?
7:10:53 >>BRAD BAIRD: Remember --
7:10:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I remember everything, but I
7:10:58 can't say it publicly.
7:10:59 >>BRAD BAIRD: Remember last year we went through
7:11:02 numerous alternatives where we were talking about
7:11:04 just doing the neighborhood projects, we talked
7:11:07 about, you know, looking at doing it by basin,
7:11:10 doing it by districts, put forth several
7:11:14 alternatives and kept coming back to this plan is
7:11:18 -- will be able to address the most, get -- you
7:11:20 know, solve the flooding and give us the biggest
7:11:21 bang for the buck.
7:11:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And believe me, I have most
7:11:27 respect for you, for Sonya, for Jan, for the Chief
7:11:29 of Staff, everybody.
7:11:32 I mean, you guys have been aboveboard very cordial
7:11:36 with all of us and understanding, and along the
7:11:39 same lines that you spoke about, along with what
7:11:42 Mr. Maniscalco said, if we can get a project paid
7:11:44 for -- listen, I didn't buy my house when I got
7:11:46 married, I lived in the housing projects when I
7:11:47 got married.
7:11:49 I had to save money to do something.
7:11:51 I couldn't do everything I wanted to do.
7:11:54 Hell, I had to leave Tampa to put the kids through
7:11:57 college and law school because I made my money
7:11:59 training race horses, something the public doesn't
7:12:04 even know, so what I'm saying is that you can't
7:12:08 have a project this massive with that amount of
7:12:10 interest with the things in the public's mind
7:12:13 about are we going to get a baseball stadium $700
7:12:15 million that we're going to have to pay for, and
7:12:18 they're going to say, well, it's not your money,
7:12:21 it's somebody -- it's tax money that could go to
7:12:23 something else, to better everyone here, the whole
7:12:24 City of Tampa.
7:12:28 The CIT's money, we talked a lot about the CIT.
7:12:31 Brad, as you and Sonya and the rest of us know,
7:12:31 that ends.
7:12:34 We have no plan for when it ends, and after the
7:12:36 year 2026, how are we going to pay for all the
7:12:39 infrastructure that should have been done with the
7:12:42 current CIT money from 2006, which was never
7:12:42 addressed?
7:12:48 We tried to do -- that resolution that was passed
7:12:54 back in 2002 or 2003 when it was passed by the
7:12:57 other council members, I guess, had some money in
7:12:58 it for stormwater.
7:13:02 We did not manage those PODs as we should have.
7:13:05 That's my own assessment, and as you well know, we
7:13:08 just recently passed the ponds, outfalls, and
7:13:10 ditches, which I voted for and supported, which is
7:13:13 about $90 a year a homeowner, something in that
7:13:16 range, and I told you just the other day, thank
7:13:18 you that the ditches in West Tampa, a lot of them
7:13:21 were deeper, they're harder to clean.
7:13:24 People don't want to go in with a lawn mower to a
7:13:27 V area because they might not be able to get out,
7:13:30 I'll be honest with you, but they work.
7:13:32 I haven't had one ditch that I've seen in
7:13:36 Wellswood or West Tampa overflow.
7:13:39 Maybe they haven't had enough rain, but I haven't
7:13:40 seen that yet.
7:13:43 When you look at that and you look at -- people
7:13:45 talk about taxes on rapid transit.
7:13:47 We have so many -- and I'm not going to bore you
7:13:49 with this, I'm going to stop here, but what I --
7:13:53 Maniscalco just said -- Councilman Maniscalco said
7:13:54 makes sense.
7:13:57 I'm not opposed to taking and doing one at a time,
7:13:59 the most -- one that has the most need.
7:14:01 I don't care where it's at.
7:14:03 I don't care if it's in north Tampa, east Tampa,
7:14:06 West Tampa, south Tampa, and go by priorities and
7:14:08 say this is what I've got to do to get it done
7:14:11 piece by piece without spending too much interest
7:14:11 money.
7:14:13 I'm not against interest.
7:14:15 I'm against interest when it's this large and this
7:14:19 -- this big, and I believe in your own statement
7:14:23 we talked about everybody uses the roadways, and I
7:14:27 agree with you, but the problem is everybody's not
7:14:28 paying.
7:14:31 She might be able to address this, Ms. Tharpe.
7:14:34 Ms. Tharpe.
7:14:35 >> Yes.
7:14:37 Yes.
7:14:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
7:14:41 Is everyone in the City of Tampa that has a
7:14:46 household paying for this or are there exemptions?
7:14:49 >> Every single family residential property is
7:14:51 paying an assessment so far.
7:14:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Except what?
7:14:54 >>BRAD BAIRD: In the improvement area.
7:14:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, in the improvement area.
7:14:57 There's a difference.
7:14:59 So in other words, people who are not in the
7:15:02 improvement area don't use the roads?
7:15:03 >> That's right.
7:15:04 They paid for their stormwater --
7:15:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Those are not the roads that
7:15:06 are flooding.
7:15:08 They use the same roads that I do.
7:15:11 I would imagine they don't live in a cocoon.
7:15:12 >>BRAD BAIRD: Right.
7:15:15 No, they pay for their own water system, treatment
7:15:17 systems and conveyance systems and do not
7:15:19 discharge to the City's system.
7:15:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with Councilman
7:15:24 Maniscalco, and he must have left the office
7:15:26 saying I agree with him, but it's a statement of
7:15:26 fact.
7:15:29 I'm not opposed to taking heat from anybody,
7:15:32 saying this is what I had to do based on the
7:15:33 information I have.
7:15:38 It saves interest and, you know, I love this city
7:15:40 just like you do, just like everybody here.
7:15:43 That's why they're here, and I hope they leave as
7:15:46 friends today, whatever side they're on, and
7:15:47 that's the most important thing, and when you look
7:15:50 at these things, I mean, when we passed the
7:15:55 budget, none of these people are here because they
7:15:57 have trust in their elected officials, but today
7:16:01 I'm glad that they're here, so they can see how
7:16:02 democracy works.
7:16:03 We're not going to be the same.
7:16:06 We're not all going to vote alike, but I respect
7:16:07 each and every one.
7:16:09 They got elected just like I did, and what I'm
7:16:11 trying to say here is there's nothing wrong with
7:16:15 doing something as the money comes in to do it.
7:16:18 That's how all of us live, including yourself.
7:16:20 All of us live the same way.
7:16:23 So I -- I'm trying to wrestle with this, do I vote
7:16:25 one way, do I vote the other way?
7:16:27 I supported two of them.
7:16:30 I ain't too sure I can support this one, but I'm
7:16:34 trying to get to the meat of this thing, and what
7:16:37 Councilman Maniscalco brought up about solving
7:16:41 wherever the main problem is, get it done, and I
7:16:43 know that costs escalate years down the road, but
7:16:46 so do salaries and so do other things, hopefully,
7:16:51 and when I saw today an item in the paper about
7:16:56 the mean average and so forth and so on, the
7:17:03 average salary of a lot of people in this city is
7:17:10 less than 30,000 a year, 28,236 based on the mean
7:17:12 average of the city.
7:17:15 The medium average is 39,000, so what I'm saying
7:17:20 is, yes, most of us make this or more; some don't,
7:17:22 and I have to figure -- and I see that lady on the
7:17:24 bike and I feel like going swimming there, but I
7:17:28 can't, but what I don't see in this is the other
7:17:30 sides that the people can't afford for.
7:17:32 Yes, I can afford the money.
7:17:33 Yes, most of us here can.
7:17:36 But the preponderance of us can't, and that's what
7:17:39 this issue that I'm tearing myself apart inside is
7:17:40 all about.
7:17:43 But I want to hear all of it, and I'm sorry,
7:17:45 Mr. Chairman, for taking so much of your time.
7:17:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:17:47 Thank you.
7:17:48 Ms. Montelione.
7:17:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
7:17:52 There's a few things that I want to address.
7:17:59 First, I put on the overhead a map of part of my
7:18:01 district, not all of the district, obviously.
7:18:05 It's a pretty large land area map that I've got,
7:18:12 and this is what used to be the edge of District 7
7:18:18 or the edge of the city limits before New Tampa
7:18:21 was annexed, and you've got 275 there and
7:18:24 Nebraska, just to give a little bit of an
7:18:28 orientation, Busch Boulevard, and Bougainvillea is
7:18:31 just off the side there, I think.
7:18:34 And all those little dots -- and that blue, by the
7:18:37 way, is -- those aren't lakes.
7:18:39 They're only lakes when it rains really hard
7:18:45 because those -- those blue areas are basin areas,
7:18:50 and I can tell you from driving around that area,
7:18:53 see, you've got the North Tampa closed basin
7:18:57 floodplain is represented by the blue, so all of
7:19:01 that property that's underneath that blue are
7:19:04 properties that are underwater when it rains.
7:19:08 We're not talking about south Tampa, and I would
7:19:14 have a really hard time with someone deciding that
7:19:17 we're going to prioritize based on need because
7:19:20 who's going to tell me that somebody who lives off
7:19:26 of Henderson is more -- is -- I'm sorry?
7:19:29 >> No.
7:19:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Is more deserving of having a
7:19:35 property that is not constantly flooding than
7:19:39 somebody who lives off of Nebraska Avenue, because
7:19:43 I've been on those streets off of Nebraska Avenue
7:19:45 when they flood, and those people are not picking
7:19:49 up the phone and calling my office; those people
7:19:54 are not emailing us telling us that they need
7:19:55 help.
7:19:57 They don't reach out to their government
7:19:57 officials.
7:20:01 I go out there and I see people whose cars are up
7:20:05 to the tires or sometimes up to the windows in
7:20:08 their driveways trying to air out their car
7:20:11 because it's been flooded.
7:20:14 They don't have some, you know -- they're not
7:20:19 sending this to us.
7:20:22 They need and they deserve relief.
7:20:25 And as far as the interest on a loan, I have an
7:20:28 interest that I pay on my mortgage.
7:20:31 I don't know that anybody these days can go out
7:20:34 and buy a house for cash.
7:20:40 Everybody who buys a house, a condominium, any --
7:20:44 any home that you have over your head, you didn't
7:20:47 buy cash, except in a very few cases.
7:20:50 If you inherited the property, if you're super
7:20:52 rich, I don't know, but I had to take out a
7:20:56 mortgage to buy my property, so I have a home, and
7:20:58 I think just about everybody does.
7:21:00 And if I were to look at the interest that I'm
7:21:04 paying on my house, I wouldn't live in an $84,000
7:21:07 valued house.
7:21:10 The interest that I'm paying on my $84,000
7:21:14 assessed house is a lot more than that.
7:21:17 It's going to end up costing me -- if you look at
7:21:19 your mortgage and you look at the amount of
7:21:20 interest you're paying on your mortgage, by the
7:21:23 end of 30 years, which is what I have on a
7:21:30 mortgage on my house, it's several hundred
7:21:31 thousand dollars.
7:21:33 It's probably 300,000.
7:21:36 If you pay the -- just the minimum payment for 30
7:21:38 years and you take it all the way out.
7:21:41 Does that mean I shouldn't have a house?
7:21:42 No.
7:21:44 I want a nice place to live.
7:21:53 It's a modest house, and I can't imagine that, yes
7:21:59 this is a lot of money, yes we bond projects all
7:21:59 the time.
7:22:02 We just passed -- and I'm going to ask how many
7:22:06 people voted -- I think it was unanimous --
7:22:12 voted -- was it last week, Ms. Little? -- on $115
7:22:14 million in bonds.
7:22:16 We had two agenda items.
7:22:20 One was for 75,000 and one was for 40,000 --
7:22:23 million, I'm sorry, 75 million, thank you, and the
7:22:28 other one was for 45 million.
7:22:32 $115 million in bonds, how much interest is that
7:22:34 over the number of years we're going to be paying,
7:22:37 and not one person here voted no, including people
7:22:39 who aren't sitting here right now.
7:22:44 It passed unanimously, but for this to give relief
7:22:47 to people whose properties are underwater, we're
7:22:51 going to say, oh, I can't -- I can't because the
7:22:52 interest is too much.
7:22:55 Well, we didn't think the interest was too much on
7:23:01 $115 million we passed a week ago, so, you know,
7:23:04 somebody is paying the interest, and did we do a
7:23:06 special assessment for $115 million?
7:23:07 No.
7:23:10 It's coming out of the -- it's coming out of the
7:23:14 City coffers, but where does the City coffer money
7:23:15 come from?
7:23:18 It comes from taxpayers, so we can get on this
7:23:21 merry-go-round and we can talk about it for years
7:23:24 and years and years, and we've been talking about
7:23:25 it since I was elected in 2011.
7:23:27 We can kick this can down the road.
7:23:30 We're having more storms out of season and we're
7:23:33 having climate change and sea level rise, and you
7:23:36 can deny it, but it's happening, and if we don't
7:23:38 address it now, this problem, those blue areas on
7:23:41 that map are going to get larger and larger and
7:23:43 larger, and what am I going to tell my
7:23:46 constituents, I'm sorry, you have to move?
7:23:49 All of those people because all of your houses are
7:23:52 going to be underwater in I don't know how many
7:23:52 years.
7:23:54 You can't pass that property down to your
7:24:02 ancestor, to your grandchildren, because it's
7:24:03 going to be underwater.
7:24:05 I think it's our responsibility to take care of
7:24:11 our problems, and, yes, it's, what, $3 or $2.26 a
7:24:21 month in the first year for a small house, $3 and
7:24:25 70-something cents for a medium size house a month
7:24:27 in the first year.
7:24:29 I was quoted on the news today when I was
7:24:32 interviewed, it's about the price of a cup of
7:24:39 coffee a month, so we can extrapolate out 30 years
7:24:42 and use really large numbers or we can look at it
7:24:44 as what can I afford today?
7:24:49 Can I afford to go out and buy a cup of coffee?
7:24:53 I don't -- it's hard for me to comprehend why
7:24:56 after so many years we're still having this
7:24:58 discussion when -- when the problem just gets
7:25:02 worse and worse, and a 100-year-old pipes are not
7:25:04 going to regress in age, they're only going to get
7:25:07 older, and they're going to fail, and if we
7:25:12 address one project in South Tampa or wherever the
7:25:18 biggest need is, then what happens when something
7:25:22 in another part of town collapses?
7:25:24 We're already working on this project.
7:25:27 We already spent everything we had working on that
7:25:28 project.
7:25:30 We're not going to have anything to spend on the
7:25:32 next one.
7:25:35 In this program we're addressing the problems
7:25:39 comprehensively, and nobody gets picked as a
7:25:40 favorite.
7:25:41 That's all I have for now.
7:25:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
7:25:46 Mr. Cohen.
7:25:51 >>HARRY COHEN: The intersections that Councilman
7:25:54 Maniscalco mentioned that are such a problem,
7:25:58 Henderson, Dale Mabry, Neptune area, are half in
7:26:00 his district and half overlap into mine, and while
7:26:03 I consider that to be one of the most important
7:26:07 areas in the City that needs to be addressed,
7:26:10 quite frankly, if all we end up with at the end of
7:26:14 the day is $20 million in CIT money, my first
7:26:17 priority is getting the water dealt with that's
7:26:19 going into people's garages because I am getting
7:26:23 pictures like this sent to me on a regular basis
7:26:26 when it rains from people who have lived in their
7:26:30 homes for 45 years and have never had water before
7:26:35 and all of a sudden now in a regular afternoon
7:26:39 rainstorm causes a deluge for them, so I wanted to
7:26:41 point out that while we do have the five large
7:26:43 projects that are sort of the focus of this,
7:26:46 there's a ton of neighborhood improvements in
7:26:53 Parkland Estates, in sunset Park, and all over the
7:26:54 place where people have lived for years and years
7:26:57 and years with standing water, and I must,
7:27:00 Mr. Baird, go back to the question than Councilman
7:27:03 Maniscalco asked you earlier because the
7:27:04 impression has been left and it needs to be
7:27:09 correct the if it's erroneous that the grant
7:27:12 money, if we reprogram ourselves, could all be
7:27:15 dumped into the Henderson, Dale Mabry, and Neptune
7:27:18 project.
7:27:22 I was told by you and the staff that if we don't
7:27:24 pass this assessment, the grant money is going
7:27:27 away, so my question to you is what is the grant
7:27:29 money specifically for?
7:27:32 If there's $20 million in grant money, what
7:27:35 exactly does it cover so we know exactly what it
7:27:38 is that is or is not available to us after we make
7:27:40 tonight's decision?
7:27:41 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yeah.
7:27:44 The grant money is for several projects, and
7:27:47 they're in different -- different stages, I'll
7:27:48 say.
7:27:53 Some are waiting a grant agreement that we've held
7:27:58 back pending this vote tonight; some are on the
7:28:01 budget for next year; and some are being proposed
7:28:04 for the budget for the following year, which we
7:28:06 have to start the application within the next two
7:28:11 months or complete it within the next two months.
7:28:12 So those projects --
7:28:14 >>HARRY COHEN: Are these grants tied to specific
7:28:14 projects?
7:28:17 >>BRAD BAIRD: They're tied to specific projects.
7:28:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
7:28:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: And the upper peninsula is one of
7:28:20 them.
7:28:22 >>HARRY COHEN: And how much is related to the
7:28:24 upper peninsula specifically?
7:28:27 >>BRAD BAIRD: 18.5 million.
7:28:30 It's the City's share, so that would pretty much
7:28:33 use up all the CIT we've dedicated.
7:28:36 >>HARRY COHEN: So you could take the CIT and you
7:28:38 could fund with grants doing the Dale Mabry,
7:28:41 Henderson, Neptune project, but none of the other
7:28:42 work would get done?
7:28:43 >>BRAD BAIRD: Right, or the Cypress Street
7:28:45 project.
7:28:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Or the Cypress Street.
7:28:49 >>BRAD BAIRD: That's another one that's been
7:28:50 identified.
7:28:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, to get back to Councilwoman
7:28:59 Montelione's point, to wait to pay as you go to do
7:29:04 one project at a time presumes that this problem
7:29:08 is not going to continue to get worse over time,
7:29:12 and it is my belief that with sea level rise, with
7:29:15 climate change, with the rate at which the City is
7:29:18 developing, at the rate at which this Council and
7:29:21 other bodies are approving new development and
7:29:24 increased density, I don't know of any other way
7:29:28 to get the work done that needs to be done rather
7:29:31 than to get money bonded up front in order to do
7:29:31 it.
7:29:36 To me, to spend ten years doing one project and
7:29:38 then turn our attention to another project and
7:29:43 maybe by the end of the period is finished, I
7:29:44 think we run out of time.
7:29:47 I think that the blue that is revealed on
7:29:50 Councilwoman Montelione's map expands
7:29:53 exponentially if we continue to ignore these
7:29:57 problems, and I would remind everybody that our
7:30:00 budget does not include additional money for
7:30:03 stormwater, so if we want to take all the CIT
7:30:07 money and put it into Dale Mabry, Henderson, and
7:30:09 Neptune, and get the grant to match it, that's it.
7:30:11 There's no other neighborhood that's going to get
7:30:14 touched for the foreseeable future, seven years,
7:30:17 ten years, whatever it might be, and, you know, to
7:30:20 me it's just -- the problem is way, way too large
7:30:23 to be put off while we address one problem at a
7:30:24 time.
7:30:27 We lost that opportunity 20 years ago.
7:30:30 If we'd been paying as we went all these years, we
7:30:33 might be able to continue it, but we haven't done
7:30:37 it, and we're now in a situation where every time
7:30:40 it rains, people find themselves navigating a
7:30:42 situation that is treacherous at best,
7:30:46 life-threatening at worst, and, you know, to me
7:30:50 just -- just getting worse and worse the longer we
7:30:52 dither and don't do something about it.
7:30:54 >>BRAD BAIRD: Mr. Chair, if I could --
7:30:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hang on one second.
7:30:58 >>BRAD BAIRD: If I could add something to that
7:31:02 that hasn't been said yet, if we were to not
7:31:07 approve this or approve it and go as a pay-go
7:31:10 instead of issuing those bonds, we would not be
7:31:15 able to fund the major projects, you know, period.
7:31:18 It's, you know, too much money over a long period
7:31:21 of time, and the Water Management District would
7:31:25 not agree to that, so that's one thing.
7:31:30 If we don't build the major projects, we also put
7:31:32 in jeopardy a lot of the neighborhood projects
7:31:34 that would, you know, tie into these bigger
7:31:36 systems.
7:31:38 Not all of them but a lot of them.
7:31:41 So I just wanted to make those two points.
7:31:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:31:42 Mr. Miranda.
7:31:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7:31:48 Chairman, I quickly went over and picked up last
7:31:51 week's item that I was accused of creating new
7:31:52 bonds.
7:31:58 Ms. Little, may I see you at the mic for one
7:31:58 second.
7:32:01 I guess reference was made to last week's agenda
7:32:04 of $70 million bonds, are you familiar with that?
7:32:05 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes, sir.
7:32:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the $46-million bonds, are
7:32:08 you familiar with those?
7:32:09 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes.
7:32:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think those were the ones
7:32:12 that were addressed just recently.
7:32:14 Are any of these new bonds?
7:32:16 >>SONYA LITTLE: Both of them are a combination.
7:32:18 The sales tax bonds that you're referring to, a
7:32:22 portion of it is refunding for cash flow savings
7:32:27 and what City Council approved as funding for the
7:32:31 CIT program, bonding out the remaining ten years
7:32:33 of the CIT.
7:32:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
7:32:36 So the CIT program, this is part of the money,
7:32:39 future collected by the 2006 CIT money, which I
7:32:43 voted against, by the way, back in 2006 because it
7:32:45 included a football stadium.
7:32:48 >>SONYA LITTLE: In 1996, I believe.
7:32:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am.
7:32:51 There was another bond taken in February that I
7:32:53 voted for that failed that did not include the
7:32:56 stadium, and the other item that I was accused of
7:33:00 passing without knowing what I was doing is also
7:33:00 incorrect.
7:33:01 Thank you very much.
7:33:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:33:05 I will remind Council, if we're going to have
7:33:07 conversation about this particular item -- and I
7:33:09 agree, Mr. Miranda, there was something that was
7:33:11 mentioned that dealt with what we voted on last
7:33:12 week.
7:33:14 Let's try and keep it on point as to what we're
7:33:16 talking about now, if I could.
7:33:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, sir.
7:33:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: All members of the Council.
7:33:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just wanted the record to be
7:33:22 clear.
7:33:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I totally agree, Mr. Miranda.
7:33:28 I just want to say that we're going forward with
7:33:30 this issue and this issue only.
7:33:32 Mr. Reddick.
7:33:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just a question, and then I'm
7:33:36 eager to hear what the people in the public have
7:33:37 to say.
7:33:42 My question, is this a once-in-a-lifetime grant?
7:33:43 >> Yes.
7:33:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: There's not going to be any
7:33:46 opportunity for you to apply for other grants?
7:33:48 >>BRAD BAIRD: Smaller grants in the future, but we
7:33:51 would not have the revenue to match it, and these
7:33:54 grants we have delayed, and I've been working with
7:33:57 the executive director of the Southwest Florida
7:33:59 Water Management District and the chairman of the
7:34:03 board so that we could delay them for this hearing
7:34:07 today, and they have agreed to do that.
7:34:12 If it fails, those grants, except for one, if we
7:34:15 were to decide to go that way, would stay on the
7:34:16 table.
7:34:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, you know --
7:34:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: It would go away, I'm sorry.
7:34:21 The one would stay on the table.
7:34:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: When I stepped out, I heard --
7:34:27 someone, I guess, was speaking that the average
7:34:33 household income was around $28,000 or something,
7:34:38 and -- and, you know, we just recently -- not too
7:34:42 long ago, we approved that assessment for the $89,
7:34:46 I believe, per person, household, or something,
7:34:51 and I voted for that, and, you know, this -- I
7:34:54 understand the drainage problems in some areas, I
7:34:56 understand the flooding and all of that you're
7:35:02 having, but no one is taking into consideration
7:35:06 the economic impact this will have on senior
7:35:09 citizens and poor people.
7:35:11 It's like each time we get ready to raise the
7:35:15 assessments and raise fees, nobody give a damn
7:35:20 about these people.
7:35:23 They're all concerned about let's deal with the
7:35:24 flooding.
7:35:28 I got a house with water going into my garage and
7:35:32 all of this, but these damn people are living on
7:35:39 -- they're living day by day, suffering.
7:35:42 Nobody cares about that.
7:35:45 And as soon as these people lose their homes
7:35:49 because they cannot pay the assessment, who's
7:35:51 going to help them out?
7:35:56 Could I send them to your department and say, find
7:35:57 a place for them to live?
7:36:01 [Laughter]
7:36:07 That's what nobody gives a hoop about, and we've
7:36:08 got a serious problem.
7:36:10 You have to take that into consideration, about
7:36:12 the economic impact that it will have on citizens
7:36:15 in this community and this city, and that's where
7:36:20 my major concern and it will always be my major
7:36:23 concern, and I understand we've got to address the
7:36:26 flooding issue, but I think there's a better way
7:36:29 for us to do it instead of having the tremendous
7:36:34 burden placed on all these people at one time, and
7:36:37 -- because where I live, I'm going to be paying
7:36:43 for this, and all I ask, that -- the City won't
7:36:45 even come out there and clean up the retention
7:36:48 pond, and I've got more retention ponds in my
7:36:51 district than anybody on this Council, and I can't
7:36:54 even get them to clean the retention pond, but now
7:36:58 you want me to pay $80 --
7:37:01 $45 in the next five years or something, and it
7:37:05 comes up to $89, and who knows, when we come back
7:37:08 to the time we're about to get off this Council,
7:37:11 the City will come back and want to raise that.
7:37:14 So that's where I'm at, and I hope people keep
7:37:19 that in mind when they make the decision tonight,
7:37:21 that there's a lot of people that are going to be
7:37:23 impacted by this.
7:37:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:37:25 Mr. Maniscalco.
7:37:26 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Yeah, real quick.
7:37:29 This will be a 30-year assessment.
7:37:33 Of all the projects that are scheduled -- no, no,
7:37:35 for you, of all the capital improvement projects
7:37:37 that are scheduled, big or small, and with their
7:37:39 timeline, how long would it take to complete all
7:37:42 the projects, the full 30 years or we'll be
7:37:45 finished before that?
7:37:49 >>BRAD BAIRD: We estimate about a ten- to 12-year
7:37:49 period.
7:37:51 Some of the ones we can get going on right away,
7:37:54 some of the ones we have to complete the study,
7:37:56 like the lower peninsula, before we can start some
7:37:59 preliminary planning and design and construction,
7:38:01 so I would estimate in that time frame.
7:38:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Okay, because I was thinking
7:38:07 the CIT sunsets in 2026, around ten years or so.
7:38:09 If that would get renewed, of course, it would be
7:38:12 a ballot referendum and this is assumption and
7:38:15 thinking ahead here, we could use future money in
7:38:18 ten years, because we're using that 20 million
7:38:19 now, which taps it out.
7:38:22 Then we'll have more ten years down the road to
7:38:23 address more problems.
7:38:26 Therefore, we're not bonding so much and we're not
7:38:29 paying so much in interest, and we're -- I'm just
7:38:32 trying to be as frugal and wise spending the money
7:38:35 while addressing all the issues because
7:38:39 Councilwoman Montelione is talking about District
7:38:42 7, what you're looking at here, would we still
7:38:44 touch on all these projects, because if we were to
7:38:47 pass this tonight, not everything gets done
7:38:47 tomorrow.
7:38:48 They're in priority, I think.
7:38:51 Upper peninsula gets addressed in the beginning or
7:38:52 the next three years.
7:38:54 >>BRAD BAIRD: And Cypress.
7:38:55 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: And that as well, but the
7:38:57 thing is, you know, she was talking about, you
7:39:01 know, if we get a mortgage and we pay interest and
7:39:02 we bond and we pay interest.
7:39:04 The thing is we're a seven-member board making
7:39:06 decisions for other people's money.
7:39:08 It's the taxpayers that are being affected by
7:39:14 this, based on our yea or nay, and I want to make
7:39:17 sure we make the best decision possible, while
7:39:19 being most effective and being most efficient
7:39:21 while addressing these stormwater issues.
7:39:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:39:23 Any other questions before we go to public
7:39:24 comment?
7:39:27 Ms. Montelione, you have something else to say?
7:39:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to just -- I keep
7:39:33 staring at this map.
7:39:37 It's not on the screen above in the -- in the
7:39:42 chambers, but it is still on all of our screens
7:39:47 here, and I worry about the poor people who live
7:39:52 at Linebaugh and North 9th Street off of Nebraska.
7:39:57 Those are poor people whose houses are underwater
7:40:04 when it rains, so we have hardship programs, we --
7:40:07 the staff went through great lengths to create the
7:40:12 hardship program that would address people who
7:40:16 couldn't afford it based on need, but those poor
7:40:20 people can't get to work; those poor people can't
7:40:24 get to school; they can't get out of their houses,
7:40:26 and how many times can they afford to replace
7:40:31 their furniture that gets flooded out?
7:40:34 Yes, there are poor people all over the City, and
7:40:37 anybody who knows the area between Busch Boulevard
7:40:43 and Fowler Avenue just off of Nebraska, those are
7:40:46 not wealthy people, and the hardship for them is
7:40:54 that they -- they live in houses that get full of
7:40:57 mold and their possessions get ruined and their
7:40:59 cars that they can hardly afford to keep running
7:41:04 get flooded, and they need help.
7:41:09 And if all of them or the 2800 or so number that
7:41:12 we were talking about before that would be
7:41:15 exempted, they need help.
7:41:18 They can't continue to have to wade through that
7:41:21 water to catch the bus on Nebraska Avenue to get
7:41:23 to work.
7:41:25 >>BRAD BAIRD: One last --
7:41:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Miranda, and Mr. Maniscalco.
7:41:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7:41:31 I'll speak, and this is the last time with this,
7:41:33 and I appreciate everything -- the courtesy you've
7:41:35 given me.
7:41:38 District 4, District 5, District 6, and District
7:41:43 7, if I was to put a map there, this is not
7:41:43 unique.
7:41:45 This is not unique in District 7.
7:41:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I didn't say that.
7:41:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not looking for an
7:41:50 argument, but if you want one, you found it.
7:41:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let's go forward.
7:41:53 Come on.
7:41:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: District 4, District 5,
7:41:58 District 6, and District 7, the water does not
7:42:01 flow north other than the St. Johns River.
7:42:04 The water flows south in Tampa, therefore it's a
7:42:05 preponderance of the problem.
7:42:08 It ain't about wealth, it's about where the water
7:42:10 is, and that's all I've got to say, Mr. Chairman.
7:42:10 Thank you.
7:42:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Maniscalco.
7:42:14 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: One last question, on this
7:42:17 slide we see of Nebraska Avenue up here, do you
7:42:20 have a price to fix this area, is it broken down
7:42:22 like we have in the other areas or no?
7:42:25 >>BRAD BAIRD: Part of it is North Tampa closed
7:42:28 basin and a part of it is a lot of other
7:42:29 neighborhood projects.
7:42:33 Maybe Councilwoman Montelione has that, but I
7:42:34 don't have that total.
7:42:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: In my volumes much information,
7:42:37 I think I do.
7:42:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We could share it at some point.
7:42:42 Do you have another question, Mr. Maniscalco?
7:42:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: No, that was it.
7:42:46 What I was asking is how much money would we need
7:42:49 to fix this section here or what is needed in
7:42:51 District 7 because I know a lot of it is exempt
7:42:54 with the Tampa Palms area because of how they
7:42:56 handle their stormwater, but what would be needed
7:42:59 to just pay for this area here?
7:43:01 >>BRAD BAIRD: It's tens of millions of dollars.
7:43:03 I don't have the exact --
7:43:04 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: All right.
7:43:04 Okay.
7:43:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: All right.
7:43:06 Anything else before we go to the public?
7:43:07 Okay.
7:43:08 No other council members.
7:43:13 Public, let me -- let me tell you what we're going
7:43:15 to do and what we're not going to do.
7:43:17 Ma'am, come up to the podium please.
7:43:19 We are going to address us as a council only, not
7:43:20 individual council members.
7:43:22 We're going to keep the amount of applause or
7:43:25 anything else to a minimum, like zero, because we
7:43:27 want to get everyone to be able to say what they
7:43:31 have to say and go forward, okay.
7:43:33 We're going to be fine, we're going to have a good
7:43:33 meetings.
7:43:35 Ma'am, please state your name and address.
7:43:36 Everyone that comes up, anyone that wants to
7:43:39 speak, if you could please line up, if possible.
7:43:41 If you're physically able to do it so that we know
7:43:42 how many people are going to speak today.
7:43:43 Ma'am, you have the floor.
7:43:44 >> Yes.
7:43:46 I'm Renee Campion.
7:43:50 My property is at 207 North Excelda.
7:43:51 I live in Tampa.
7:43:54 I'm specifically here to ask you to vote no on
7:43:56 this issue.
7:44:01 My reasons for asking you to vote no, the selfish
7:44:04 ones are that I don't want to pay another tax.
7:44:07 Even more so, I don't want City Council to put a
7:44:09 30-year mortgage on my house.
7:44:12 I worked extremely hard to pay my house off.
7:44:14 I'm almost 70 years old.
7:44:17 I have a paid-off house, and that's how I can
7:44:20 afford to stay there in retirement.
7:44:23 Those are my selfish motives.
7:44:28 My unselfish motives, are the altruistic motives
7:44:32 is that I started researching this when I felt I
7:44:35 was over assessed, and I discovered, to my
7:44:39 satisfaction, that -- or lack of satisfaction that
7:44:43 pretty much every single family parcel owner is
7:44:45 being incorrectly charged, and in most cases
7:44:50 they're being overcharged.
7:44:52 The fiscal sampling document, which was shown on
7:44:55 the screen before, talks about the fact that you
7:44:57 actually read the details of the whole letter,
7:45:01 which I included here as Exhibit 7, it says that
7:45:04 the person who created the statistical sample did
7:45:08 not know what the impervious surface was, so they
7:45:10 assumed a number, which was comparable to the
7:45:12 building footprint.
7:45:17 When you got to the 3310 ESU number, they then
7:45:19 proceeded to say that was for medium single-family
7:45:24 houses, and without looking at small or large,
7:45:27 they just extrapolated that over so that they
7:45:29 said, well, obviously, these others have the same
7:45:33 ratio of 50/50 as the medium, which is absolutely
7:45:36 untrue and doesn't even make sense.
7:45:39 Beyond that, the notices that went out are totally
7:45:40 faulty.
7:45:46 They say in the notices that the fee rate is based
7:45:48 upon the impervious surface on a property.
7:45:50 That is absolutely a false statement.
7:45:53 The fee rate is based on a tier assignment, which
7:45:57 is based on only the building footprint of the
7:45:58 property, so there's a false statement right there
7:46:00 on the notice.
7:46:03 And in addition to that, since that false
7:46:06 statement is there, in order to determine the rate
7:46:09 a property is actually paying, you would have to
7:46:12 look at the actual impervious surface on that
7:46:15 property and extrapolate it out to see what the
7:46:16 fee is.
7:46:21 And several of you, I believe, have constituents
7:46:25 with small and medium properties, and if you look
7:46:30 at my Exhibit 5, the smallest property's paying
7:46:37 $454 per ESU, and meanwhile, the excessively large
7:46:40 properties, one of which is in my example, is
7:46:41 paying $8.
7:46:44 If you think that's fair that somebody with a
7:46:48 200-square-foot parcel is paying at the rate of
7:46:51 $454 and somebody with 45,000 square feet is
7:46:56 paying at the rate of 8-something per ESU and this
7:46:58 is a mortgage on your property, I just can't even
7:47:00 credit it.
7:47:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
7:47:01 Appreciate it.
7:47:03 Next, please.
7:47:07 Come to the podium first before you speak.
7:47:08 Thank you, sir.
7:47:12 >> Manuel Fernandez, 47 Sandpiper Road.
7:47:16 I have some handouts.
7:47:17 I've got three copies.
7:47:19 I didn't have the rest for everybody.
7:47:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:47:25 >> So I want to quickly summarize, I've
7:47:28 highlighted some yellow areas in the handout.
7:47:31 Well, let me see, I gave you the wrong set.
7:47:32 Let me have that.
7:47:33 That's my copy.
7:47:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Clerk, please stop the timer
7:47:37 for right now.
7:47:39 Sir, wait a moment before you start.
7:47:40 >> All right.
7:47:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:47:43 Let's get this information to us so that we can
7:47:43 go.
7:47:47 How much time does he have left, Mr. Clerk?
7:47:50 >>THE CLERK: Two minutes, 32 seconds.
7:47:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
7:47:55 Sir, go ahead.
7:47:57 >> Okay.
7:48:01 I received your all's notice in July of 2015
7:48:02 concerning the assessments.
7:48:05 I responded on August 9th of 2015 with the letter
7:48:09 which you have a copy of.
7:48:14 The problem is that my family actually built the
7:48:18 Sandpiper Finger, and when we built it, we
7:48:20 provided for the storm drainage in -- on
7:48:23 Sandpiper.
7:48:26 All the stormwater on that finger drains directly
7:48:28 into the bay.
7:48:31 It does not contribute to the stormwater problems
7:48:32 of the City of Tampa.
7:48:34 A lot of the fingers were developed in that
7:48:38 manner, based on the code at the time.
7:48:41 So even though we have extremely high assessed
7:48:45 values and we pay a disproportionate share of the
7:48:49 real estate taxes for residential properties, as
7:48:54 far as stormwater drainage goes, those fingers do
7:48:58 not involve the stormwater system, and they should
7:49:03 be exempt or be allowed to pay one U.S. -- one
7:49:07 unit as a unit to be provided over the Citywide,
7:49:10 not multiple units just because they have a high
7:49:11 assessed value.
7:49:15 I provided also, after receiving the letter of
7:49:20 August 30th from the Transportation Stormwater
7:49:22 Services Department, I hired a professional
7:49:24 engineer to do a calculation of the impervious
7:49:31 area on my property, irrespective that it's on
7:49:35 Sandpiper, and I meet all three requirements for
7:49:37 relief, but the important thing is that they've
7:49:42 assessed me for 10,000 square feet because of a
7:49:44 multistory house, when, in fact, the certified
7:49:46 engineer that I hired says that the total
7:49:51 impervious area on my property is only 1887 square
7:49:55 feet, which is less than one of your ESU units,
7:49:57 and yet they want to assess me for the maximum
7:49:59 amount.
7:50:05 Finally, whenever we get to the end, I received a
7:50:08 notice of this hearing, and the notice of this
7:50:12 hearing provided -- let me see what I've got here,
7:50:20 because I've only got three minutes to do this --
7:50:24 that -- well, in any event, I'll conclude with
7:50:26 that.
7:50:28 I'll just conclude with that.
7:50:31 I'm just saying that the people on the fingers are
7:50:31 retired.
7:50:35 I'm 72 years old, and we no longer have incomes.
7:50:37 We're living off our past salaries and savings,
7:50:41 and our stormwater does not affect the City of
7:50:41 Tampa stormwater.
7:50:42 Thank you.
7:50:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
7:50:44 Next, please.
7:50:47 >> Yvonne Polo --
7:50:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I apologize.
7:50:51 Can you repeat it again.
7:50:55 >> Yvonne Polo, Matanzas Avenue.
7:50:58 My street is dried, but I have lived there 49
7:51:01 years and I worked two jobs to pay off my
7:51:01 mortgage.
7:51:05 This assessment puts a 30-year mortgage on my
7:51:05 house.
7:51:09 That is not fair to me and to my neighbors.
7:51:12 Real estate values have gone up, and there are
7:51:16 many new expensive homes and apartments on the tax
7:51:16 rolls.
7:51:20 The City should use general funds for these
7:51:23 projects instead of putting liens on our houses.
7:51:27 My friend, Renee Campion asked how the City
7:51:30 assigns property to the building tiers for this
7:51:30 tax.
7:51:34 The attorney for the City said the City did not
7:51:35 have a record.
7:51:38 She said it was based on the sample of houses, but
7:51:42 she did not know the addresses of these houses.
7:51:45 The city administrator says the City cannot create
7:51:49 a database of impervious areas for houses because
7:51:53 the City cannot afford to remeasure 83,000 houses
7:51:56 or parcels every year.
7:51:58 This is not true.
7:52:02 Once a database is created, only changes needed to
7:52:04 be updated.
7:52:06 Even if the database has errors, it would be
7:52:11 better than billing everyone on estimates based on
7:52:13 nonexisting data.
7:52:17 Rich people do not pay stormwater fees on most of
7:52:20 the impervious surfaces on their property while
7:52:23 the poor and middle-class are overcharged.
7:52:25 This is wrong.
7:52:26 Please vote no for this.
7:52:27 Thank you.
7:52:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
7:52:30 Next, please.
7:52:33 >> Good evening.
7:52:38 My name is Mary Jo Melone, and I live at 215 North
7:52:39 Woodlynne Avenue.
7:52:41 My street is 16 feet wide.
7:52:43 This is the map.
7:52:47 16 feet wide and 528 feet long.
7:52:53 It's not exactly a large area, yet the City's
7:52:55 permitted no less than four 2500-square-foot
7:52:58 houses in my neighborhood.
7:53:01 They're essentially zero lot line houses.
7:53:04 The lower part of that intersection, North A and
7:53:07 Woodland flooded so badly last summer, it had to
7:53:11 be closed, and yet the City continues to authorize
7:53:14 and permit zero lot line construction.
7:53:17 I think I'm following up with the woman who just
7:53:18 spoke.
7:53:23 Those homes with so little permeable surface
7:53:24 flood.
7:53:26 They cause flooding all around them.
7:53:29 I can tell you it happened to me last summer when
7:53:33 a third of my backyard went underwater.
7:53:39 It's hard for me to believe that a homeowner who
7:53:44 has so little permeable surface and, thus, is a
7:53:51 major contributor to flooding should pay what I
7:53:52 pay.
7:53:53 I've done a little math.
7:53:57 My own property, I have a 1450-square-foot house
7:53:59 on one-third of an acre.
7:54:03 I pay the yardman a lot because I have so much
7:54:05 permeable surface.
7:54:08 My home does not contribute to flooding, my home
7:54:10 has been there since 1949.
7:54:14 It's sort of the classic West Tampa structure.
7:54:17 The idea that some theoretical calculation would
7:54:21 fail to take into account zero lot line homes,
7:54:24 which are now all over the place and do contribute
7:54:28 to flooding -- the idea that that would not be
7:54:30 taken into account, in my view, is just plain
7:54:39 wrong, and it does weight, in my view, this fee in
7:54:45 favor of wealthier people because they're paying
7:54:48 less for what they're able to own and causing more
7:54:53 of a difficulty than I'm creating.
7:54:56 It -- and I think the other thing is, is that as
7:55:00 long as the City continues to permit homes of this
7:55:05 magnitude, as it has on my block, as it's doing
7:55:08 all over West Tampa, then the City itself, by its
7:55:12 own policies, is contributing to the very flooding
7:55:15 that these millions of dollars in projects are
7:55:19 trying to alleviate.
7:55:22 In my own view, if you don't take care of the
7:55:27 city's own planning ideas and permitting failures,
7:55:32 then you'll always be needing more money for
7:55:35 drainage, more money for sewage.
7:55:37 It's like there's no planning and no forethought.
7:55:38 Thank you.
7:55:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
7:55:41 Next, please.
7:55:44 >> Can I use this machine?
7:55:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes, sir.
7:55:47 >> Nobody else [Off microphone]
7:55:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You can just put it on top of that.
7:55:51 Don't worry about that, sir.
7:55:52 Just put it down.
7:55:55 Just put it down, what you need.
7:56:00 There you go.
7:56:01 Thank you.
7:56:02 >> This is the house I live in.
7:56:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Sir, if you could give us your name
7:56:06 and address for the record, please.
7:56:07 Thank you.
7:56:13 >> John Moll, 4104 Lynn Avenue in Seminole
7:56:14 Heights.
7:56:18 I live in a house that was built in 1908.
7:56:20 The water table was a lot higher then, so they
7:56:23 built it on piers or stilts or whatever you want
7:56:24 to call them.
7:56:26 It's elevated.
7:56:32 Not one drop of water in 100 years, and it has
7:56:33 either gone into the street or stormwater, and
7:56:36 yet, you're trying to charge me thousands of
7:56:38 dollars for what's not occurring.
7:56:42 All the water that hits that roof goes into a pond
7:56:44 underneath when it rains.
7:56:47 In other words, it's over a pond.
7:56:52 Back in the -- I think it was September, 17th,
7:56:55 Hill Ward & Henderson sent you a brief, I guess
7:56:58 you would call it, saying there was some standard
7:57:03 defects and inequities in the method for
7:57:04 calculating the parcels.
7:57:05 Well, this just goes to show it.
7:57:09 There is hardly any impervious surface on my
7:57:12 entire lot.
7:57:16 There's also vegetation underneath the house, it's
7:57:18 pervious, it percolates into the ground.
7:57:21 The way the water leaves from the pond, it
7:57:25 evaporates or it percolates.
7:57:27 It doesn't go into stormwater or a street, so it
7:57:31 says on here, which was given to you, that field
7:57:34 verification of the amount of impervious area is
7:57:37 only constructed if there is a question.
7:57:40 They do this by aerial photographs, apparently.
7:57:44 Well, you can't see under my house, you can't see
7:57:47 the pond there, so I have another house, the same
7:57:47 situation.
7:57:50 Most homes in Seminole Heights are elevated.
7:57:53 Even the new ones are being elevated.
7:57:57 Here's another one of my parcels.
7:57:59 Again, no drop of water that hits that roof goes
7:58:03 into a street or a stormwater, and I have another
7:58:06 parcel down the street, and I wanted to show you
7:58:07 what's under the roof.
7:58:11 I took the roof off, and what's underneath it is a
7:58:12 pond.
7:58:15 That pond happens every time it rains.
7:58:17 Then it evaporates and it percolates, but there is
7:58:23 no tier to address the situation that most of the
7:58:27 houses in Seminole Heights are.
7:58:30 What's the tier for a piece of property that has
7:58:33 no house on it?
7:58:36 Is that zero, so they understand that it's not
7:58:40 contributing at all.
7:58:43 Another letter I got from Joan Greco says I
7:58:44 understand you're trying to place your properties
7:58:47 in the different categories than the tiers, but as
7:58:50 I explained above, the method was established with
7:58:53 a single-family residential parcel when the
7:58:55 assessment was adopted in 2003.
7:58:59 Well, this methodology is just bogus because all
7:59:03 this water in my parcels are not going into a
7:59:05 street or a stormwater, yet I'm still being
7:59:06 charged.
7:59:07 Thank you.
7:59:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
7:59:10 Next, please.
7:59:22 >> Bobbie E. Way, 906 East 24th Avenue.
7:59:24 You know, it's my first time coming here ever, so
7:59:27 -- and I'm listening to everybody, and it sounds
7:59:33 like when they're talking, you paint paradise and
7:59:34 build a parking lot.
7:59:36 Now, the problem I have, I live right off
7:59:39 Nebraska, so the issue of saying it's flooding is
7:59:40 not true.
7:59:42 I drive Nebraska every day.
7:59:47 I'm two houses off Nebraska, 24th Avenue.
7:59:48 Not true.
7:59:50 I drive to South Tampa.
7:59:53 I've been there since 2007.
7:59:54 Not true.
7:59:59 The issue that I have is this. You got people like
8:00:01 Derek Jeter paying less money.
8:00:05 Now, he chose to live by the water.
8:00:09 I know that we have to deal with the issue, but I
8:00:12 heard one Councilman say that how long will it
8:00:13 take?
8:00:16 They said, well, we can take it to ten years, but
8:00:18 you're doing it 30 years, and then you're going to
8:00:20 attach it to somebody's house who's been working
8:00:22 all their lives.
8:00:24 Now, I don't know how many of you live within the
8:00:30 area where you're being taxed, some of you may,
8:00:32 some of you may not, but the people that do were
8:00:35 already taxed -- I'm just being taxed, period.
8:00:39 I don't have kids, but I'm still being taxed.
8:00:39 It's life.
8:00:40 I got that.
8:00:41 But, you know, if you're going to make it fair,
8:00:42 that's one thing.
8:00:45 People don't mind paying if you make it fair.
8:00:49 If this person pays the same amount as Derek Jeter
8:00:53 pays, if you're going to tax all the people in the
8:00:54 City, because everybody comes into the City for
8:00:57 one reason or another, but if you're not going to
8:00:59 make it fair, why are you doing it, because it
8:01:02 seems like my property's being singled out.
8:01:05 Somebody says, you know, it's being singled out
8:01:07 because you're going to put a lien on it if I
8:01:10 can't pay, and why connect it to the houses?
8:01:13 Why not just in the bill, like some of the states
8:01:13 do.
8:01:16 They're just an assessment bill every year, but
8:01:18 you want to connect it to the houses, so at the
8:01:20 end of the day, some people lose their houses if
8:01:25 they can't pay, and as far as that, what's that
8:01:27 one you're talking about, people who can afford to
8:01:31 get off -- it's 65.
8:01:33 I'm not 65.
8:01:35 I don't qualify for that exemption.
8:01:37 Most folks in my area don't qualify for that
8:01:37 exemption.
8:01:39 Ma'am, I already called them.
8:01:40 I already called.
8:01:41 I don't qualify for it.
8:01:48 I don't make $40- or $50,000, so that -- my point
8:01:49 is this.
8:01:51 If you're going to do it, that's fine, but make it
8:01:51 fair.
8:01:54 That's all people -- people just want you to be
8:01:55 fair about everything.
8:01:57 They don't mind you doing it, but make sure that
8:02:00 I'm paying the same amount as Derek Jeter.
8:02:05 He's not paying $18, 18 cents, and here I've got
8:02:08 to pay $49, and it don't add up to no $3 and
8:02:09 something.
8:02:13 $49, and then I got to pay $89, and over the term
8:02:15 I'm paying $21,000.
8:02:18 And my house, according to the City, is not worth
8:02:19 much.
8:02:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:02:21 >> Thank you.
8:02:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Next, please.
8:02:30 >> My name is [Off microphone]
8:02:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Could you speak up, sir.
8:02:36 >> My name is Carmello Pabon.
8:02:43 I live in 10106 North Hyacinth Avenue.
8:02:47 What happens, I live here ten years when I bought
8:02:55 the property, and last year to fix the front of my
8:02:58 house because the entry for my house is all full
8:03:01 of water, and last year when I talked to him, he
8:03:03 said, well, you got a number.
8:03:04 Okay.
8:03:05 I've been waiting.
8:03:11 He came when the dry -- everything was dry, so he
8:03:15 said it was only about two inches of water.
8:03:15 It's not.
8:03:20 I have -- everybody drive around the lot just then
8:03:23 and there because there's too much water and I
8:03:27 have problems because -- and besides, where I live
8:03:28 is all rented apartments.
8:03:32 I'm the only landowner, the only one that have a
8:03:34 property there because the owner from the side,
8:03:37 they don't live around there.
8:03:45 The whole block from Bougainvillea to Poinsettia,
8:03:48 when you come to the one side, one property is
8:03:49 mine.
8:03:54 Every other one is a rented apartment, so I try to
8:03:59 find somebody to sign it and sell it to the City.
8:04:01 Who's going to sign it for me?
8:04:03 There's only one property, mine.
8:04:05 And I have a picture here.
8:04:12 I don't know if you can see here because that's
8:04:15 the house and this is the answer.
8:04:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Turn it around, sir.
8:04:18 It's upside down.
8:04:20 There you go, perfect.
8:04:20 >> Okay.
8:04:26 And this is the other picture that I have here.
8:04:28 Four pictures different ways.
8:04:29 That you can see the water in there.
8:04:35 This is the front of the entrance of my house.
8:04:40 Today already from last year, August 10th last
8:04:47 year to today, a year later, and I call him again.
8:04:48 I called today again.
8:04:52 I said somebody got to go over there and see it.
8:04:54 You are only two inches water.
8:05:00 I told him to come around today.
8:05:03 There's at least four and a half or five inches of
8:05:04 water.
8:05:06 I'll pay my tax, everything is fine.
8:05:14 My house is the best house on the neighborhood.
8:05:15 Nobody [Off microphone]
8:05:19 But, hey, a five-story house, nobody is going to
8:05:22 buy it because if I'm going to buy a property, I
8:05:25 go day before when it's dry and I'm going to go
8:05:29 when it rains to see if it's a place to live in
8:05:33 there, and I live there ten years already.
8:05:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:05:35 >> Thank you very much.
8:05:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:05:38 Next, please.
8:05:41 >> Good evening.
8:05:43 My name is Sally Dee.
8:05:48 I live at 3508 West Barcelona Street.
8:05:51 I would ask that you vote yes on the stormwater
8:05:54 improvement.
8:05:58 You know, I have a tendency to think of things as
8:06:01 a former athlete, and I see the City as a body,
8:06:05 and so if parts of the body aren't working, it
8:06:06 doesn't work.
8:06:10 It's not like only this part we'll fix it down at
8:06:12 some point in the future, we push it off.
8:06:14 I would need my eyes, which I consider North
8:06:17 Tampa, as much as I need my legs, which is South
8:06:18 Tampa.
8:06:20 You can't function as a city, and every single
8:06:24 part of the city counts, if we don't fix this and
8:06:27 if we just keep pushing it off, it's never going
8:06:28 to get fixed properly.
8:06:30 I heard and analogy that a young man couldn't
8:06:33 afford -- you know, he lived in the projects and
8:06:35 couldn't afford a house, but the City is old.
8:06:38 The City is not young, and so it's time to take
8:06:39 care of it.
8:06:40 It's aging.
8:06:42 And I also, you know -- like I grew up in New
8:06:45 York, so maybe I'm a little bit more used to
8:06:48 paying taxes, but there's two things in life my
8:06:51 father told me you have, death and taxes, so, you
8:06:52 know, this is part of the deal.
8:06:55 It's part of the deal of living in a community.
8:06:57 I don't have kids that go to school, but I want
8:06:59 your kids to have a really good education because
8:07:01 that's what makes this city great.
8:07:02 It's just part of being a community.
8:07:05 You don't get to pick and choose what's good for
8:07:07 -- you know, it's good for everybody if we all
8:07:13 have safe roads to drive on, and -- let's see what
8:07:14 else.
8:07:16 Oh, right now the interest rates are so low.
8:07:21 What if they go up if we wait ten, 15 years.
8:07:22 Then we'd just wind up paying more.
8:07:25 I do notice that even in the budget from last year
8:07:28 that there was a huge increase in residential
8:07:30 permits being built all over the City, so I'm
8:07:33 assuming that we're going to have more and more.
8:07:35 We have high-rises that are being planned, condo
8:07:37 high-rises in downtown, which will also
8:07:40 contribute, I'm assuming, to single-family -- is
8:07:42 that considered a single-family or do condos not
8:07:43 count to this assessment?
8:07:46 I'm not sure and clear on that.
8:07:46 Okay.
8:07:47 They do.
8:07:50 And so another question would be can this -- can
8:07:52 the bonds be paid off quicker if we have an
8:07:54 increase in population?
8:07:57 So at the worst-case scenario, you're talking
8:08:00 about a bond interest over 30 years, but very
8:08:02 likely, because of the growth that's projected for
8:08:05 Florida, this bond could be paid down quickly, so
8:08:07 that's all I've got.
8:08:08 Thank you.
8:08:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:08:10 Next, please.
8:08:18 >> Good evening, Council, Jerry Frankhouser,
8:08:19 T.H.A.N. president.
8:08:21 We have studied this, weave he been here before,
8:08:24 we've seen the paperwork and all that kind of
8:08:26 stuff, and we still think it's a very good idea to
8:08:30 go for the whole enchilada, okay, because we've
8:08:33 been -- I mean, I've lived in town for 25 years,
8:08:37 and we've always had trouble, Harry, are Henderson
8:08:38 and Dale Mabry.
8:08:40 They've tried three -- two times already to fix
8:08:43 it, and it doesn't seem to have done fixed it, so
8:08:47 let's get it done right and get this right, pass
8:08:50 the whole thing and get the money, get started on
8:08:52 it, and ten years from now we'll be all happy in
8:08:53 every neighborhood.
8:08:55 That's what we're interested in with T.H.A.N.,
8:08:57 every neighborhood, so thank you very much, and I
8:09:03 hope you go for the whole enchilada or is it an
8:09:05 empanada?
8:09:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thanks.
8:09:07 Thank you.
8:09:08 Next, please.
8:09:08 >> Hello.
8:09:09 My name is Joe Lodato.
8:09:13 I live at 2319 East 112th Avenue, been there since
8:09:16 1975, and Ms. Montelione, I'm in your area.
8:09:20 I want to excuse my language, and if I offend you,
8:09:23 I apologize in advance because I'm a very direct
8:09:26 person, and I like tax, okay.
8:09:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Well, let's try and keep it on the
8:09:30 friendly, family level, okay.
8:09:31 >> Okay.
8:09:35 I'm only going to say one halfway word, lie, okay.
8:09:37 These people right here, stormwater, they've known
8:09:43 about the problem at 26th Street and 11th since
8:09:47 1980 -- 113th Street in 1980.
8:09:49 It rained 40 days and 40 nights.
8:09:55 Temple Terrace was totally underwater.
8:09:56 They built a station there.
8:09:58 It doesn't do anything with the pond.
8:10:01 It brings water from Hillsborough County, so why
8:10:04 should the citizens of the City of Tampa be
8:10:07 singled out and pay added stormwater fees when all
8:10:10 the water comes from Hillsborough County and
8:10:12 Temple Terrace?
8:10:14 What do you have to say?
8:10:16 What does stormwater have to say?
8:10:19 It flows off of Fowler.
8:10:22 The county lets -- behind the mall, big drainage
8:10:25 ditch, okay.
8:10:29 All the nursing homes and buildings and stuff, no
8:10:29 drainage.
8:10:31 Where do you want the water to go?
8:10:33 They built a pump station down there.
8:10:37 It goes down to 30th Street, coming down 30th
8:10:41 Street, comes down 113th, and then it goes further
8:10:44 down to Poinsettia, but it doesn't even control
8:10:46 the original pond that's there.
8:10:48 I called up stormwater maintenance, hey, when are
8:10:50 you going to clean out the storm -- the retention
8:10:51 pond?
8:10:54 Oh, we're going to get to it.
8:10:55 Hey, when?
8:10:57 It's storm season.
8:11:00 He's starting out -- he told me the next day.
8:11:03 I called him the next day, I said, hey, buddy,
8:11:05 they're not here, where are they at?
8:11:08 Oh, they're starting on their schedule.
8:11:10 I'm, dude, it's storm time.
8:11:12 What have you been doing all the other months?
8:11:14 You know, I was just only going to complain about
8:11:17 the square footage that I have on my property.
8:11:21 It's been there since 1975.
8:11:24 Joan Greco says, well, you're due to pay this
8:11:25 amount of money.
8:11:28 Do I qualify for the hardship program?
8:11:28 How can I?
8:11:32 I make over $12,000 a year.
8:11:35 Who lives in a house that makes $12,000 a year and
8:11:37 lives by themselves?
8:11:40 Not very many people own a house and make $12,000
8:11:41 a year.
8:11:45 I make a little bit more, yeah, I'm in hardship.
8:11:47 It's hard to live by myself.
8:11:49 I don't know what to tell you.
8:11:53 You know, they don't have a cap, okay.
8:11:57 '13 is like $36 or something, the next year it was
8:12:01 $82, the next year was $136.
8:12:03 The county only raises people that have been in
8:12:07 their house over 25 years and are elderly 3% a
8:12:07 year.
8:12:11 There's no cap on non-ad valorem stormwater.
8:12:15 You know, they jacked up my price over 50% every
8:12:18 year for the past two, three years.
8:12:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:12:20 >> And I decline it.
8:12:24 But if they do have a -- a scale --
8:12:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
8:12:26 >> -- no problem.
8:12:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:12:29 >> But there's no scale in their little --
8:12:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you very much.
8:12:31 Next, please.
8:12:34 >> Have a great day.
8:12:39 >> Richard Nordstrom, 4317 South Lois, Tampa.
8:12:45 Just to show you the current storm street flooding
8:12:49 map, which shows the area in question at Nebraska,
8:12:52 in that area, there isn't any.
8:12:54 It's all obviously South Tampa, and that is not
8:12:59 really because of stormwater sewer, it's because
8:13:02 of the hurricane bringing the tail end and
8:13:05 bringing the waters into the bay.
8:13:11 No amount of stormwater money will ever correct
8:13:11 that.
8:13:15 You can -- the only thing that will correct it is
8:13:19 a 50-foot wall, make a dam out in the Tampa Bay,
8:13:22 and keep the water from coming in.
8:13:27 I guarantee you that your $250 million worth of
8:13:31 improvement will not help any roads.
8:13:37 We will still have flooding, whether it comes up
8:13:40 just to the tires on a vehicle or above the
8:13:43 windows on a vehicle, it's not going to be any
8:13:43 different.
8:13:47 People just need to use common sense.
8:13:49 When it's raining, you don't go out on streets
8:13:52 that you know are going to flood.
8:13:54 It's just common sense.
8:13:58 It's been that way in Tampa since I've been here,
8:14:01 since 1955.
8:14:06 We knew areas to avoid, and throwing money at it
8:14:08 is not going to solve the problem, unless you want
8:14:13 to go to Vienna, Italy, and let's dig up all the
8:14:16 streets and put canals so we can all go up and
8:14:17 down the streets.
8:14:22 That's probably about the only solution.
8:14:25 Buy up all the vacant properties and put in huge
8:14:31 ponds, put in $50-million -- 50-million gallon
8:14:35 retention ponds.
8:14:38 No amount of money will ever solve street
8:14:40 flooding.
8:14:42 St. Pete knows that.
8:14:45 They're not after some ridiculous figure to try
8:14:49 and fix the streets because they know the
8:14:53 southeast area in St. Pete will always flood, that
8:14:57 it's low-lying area at sea level, so you can't
8:15:00 make water go somewhere below sea level when
8:15:04 you're at sea level.
8:15:09 So obviously, like I said, a year ago this just
8:15:12 will be fruitless, it won't get anybody anywhere.
8:15:17 I guarantee you 20 years from now, if they ever
8:15:19 did anything like this, you would not notice any
8:15:22 difference, and I love the way the pictures, they
8:15:27 show maps of things that are from who knows when,
8:15:30 they show pictures from the flooding from 100 --
8:15:35 from last year, which was a 150-year storm, once
8:15:36 every 150 years.
8:15:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:15:39 Next, please.
8:15:41 >> Hi.
8:15:45 My name is Elizabeth Marcadis.
8:15:50 My husband and I are at 2615 Swann Avenue, and
8:15:52 we operate a medical practice there.
8:15:53 It's changed.
8:15:57 We bought and improved the property in 1999, and
8:16:03 nothing's the same, and on rainy days, you know,
8:16:05 no one's going to feel that sorry, but patients
8:16:08 cancel, they can't get to the practice, our
8:16:10 employees can't get in.
8:16:12 I want all the flooding -- I don't think that my
8:16:14 South Tampa property's more important than the
8:16:16 person in the other district.
8:16:18 I mean, it's a problem everywhere.
8:16:20 It's very hard to maintain the business under
8:16:24 conditions where half your patients can't come to
8:16:28 you, but more than anything, I don't want to be
8:16:31 this person -- I don't know if that's going to --
8:16:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yeah, we can see it.
8:16:33 >> Okay.
8:16:35 Soap that's Swann Avenue.
8:16:38 That's somebody trying to go to Memorial Hospital.
8:16:40 I don't care if they're rich or they're poor, if
8:16:42 they're trying to get to the hospital, that's not
8:16:43 a good situation.
8:16:46 They were offloaded on Swann Avenue, and I don't
8:16:48 even know who finally came to pick them up, but
8:16:49 that was done.
8:16:53 I mean, they couldn't -- they couldn't go.
8:16:59 Here's the police making Swann Avenue a three-lane
8:16:59 street.
8:17:03 The police car was the bigger one at the end.
8:17:05 They were trying to rescue other people.
8:17:07 They were stuck, and then they're sitting it out
8:17:10 in our lobby, and it's got to be fixed.
8:17:14 I'm asking you guys -- I mean, you've gathered the
8:17:15 best information.
8:17:18 I've got more pictures, but it's just changed.
8:17:23 It's dangerous, and people don't stay home when
8:17:25 it's raining, they're on the road, and then the
8:17:28 rescue's on the road to rescue those people.
8:17:30 It's just become worse, and I hope that you vote
8:17:31 for it.
8:17:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:17:33 >> Thank you.
8:17:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Next, please.
8:17:42 >> Hi.
8:17:47 I'm Krista Maddox, I live at 2503 Fountain
8:17:48 Boulevard.
8:17:50 We all have our own individual stories, every
8:17:52 single one of us here is an individual person, we
8:17:54 have different properties in different parts of
8:17:57 town, and I have my own issue with my property,
8:18:00 which is 18 feet above sea level.
8:18:02 You wouldn't think that we would have flooding
8:18:02 issues.
8:18:07 I'm actually near Dr. Marcadis's office, but it
8:18:10 floods horribly, very terribly badly right around
8:18:14 Swann Memorial Hospital area, and at 18 to 20
8:18:15 feet, which is what the properties are around
8:18:18 there, that shouldn't be happening.
8:18:22 It's simply from a storm drain system failure as a
8:18:22 whole.
8:18:24 I don't really want to talk about my own property.
8:18:26 I think that we're -- this is a huge problem.
8:18:29 It is a citywide problem, and it can only be
8:18:31 addressed comprehensively.
8:18:38 There is no piecemealing this issue and fixing it
8:18:39 here and there.
8:18:40 If that were the case, it would have been done a
8:18:42 long time ago.
8:18:45 The money, with all due respect, if we're going to
8:18:47 fix it project by project, it will never happen.
8:18:50 We know the money will never be forthcoming, and
8:18:53 maybe a few things will get fixed here and there,
8:18:56 but it's not going to be anything that we, as a
8:18:59 city, needs on a grand scale to fix this problem.
8:19:00 I'm in real estate.
8:19:01 I'm a realtor.
8:19:03 I know the development -- I love all the
8:19:03 development.
8:19:05 I think it's great for Tampa, but with that
8:19:07 development that has been allowed over the last
8:19:11 couple of decades, it's a lot of building, which
8:19:14 means a whole lot less impervious surface.
8:19:16 There's very little place for the water to go now.
8:19:18 It's all being forced into these 100-year-old
8:19:20 storm drains, and none of that has been fixed
8:19:25 along the way, so our government, City Council, et
8:19:27 cetera, has allowed all this basically unfettered
8:19:31 development and growth, but it looks great on the
8:19:34 surface, but it's crumbling underneath, so the
8:19:35 foundation is crumbling.
8:19:38 We have 100-year-old pipes.
8:19:39 It has to be fixed.
8:19:42 You can't continue to allow all of this
8:19:44 development and building and not fix the
8:19:47 underlying problem, and we have a massive problem.
8:19:48 And we are all in this together.
8:19:50 This is our city.
8:19:53 We -- all of our city, not about one house or
8:19:55 another house or someone's individual bill.
8:19:56 It's all of us.
8:19:58 We're Tampa, and we have to fix it.
8:19:59 Please vote yes.
8:20:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:20:01 Next, please.
8:20:06 >> Good evening.
8:20:07 My name is Susan Braun.
8:20:12 I live at 4604 North St. Vincent Street; however,
8:20:15 I have the property that I was born and brought
8:20:20 into in Drew Park, which I discussed with my
8:20:23 mother to develop back in 1987.
8:20:25 You can see they were apartments and you can see
8:20:27 the water was already there.
8:20:30 There's a small cypress wetland, and what I'm here
8:20:34 to address is just -- I know that I spoke with
8:20:35 Joan Greco.
8:20:38 They do provide for some mitigation, but I just
8:20:41 wanted to make the point to everyone that trees
8:20:45 are the thing that will help save us with this
8:20:46 stormwater.
8:20:50 I -- in this development, my mother was very much
8:20:52 wanting to make a little retention pond, and I was
8:20:55 an environmentalist, taught science at Monroe
8:20:59 Middle School for 27 years, and I said, no, Mom,
8:21:02 we need to save this little wetland, so we made a
8:21:06 -- got a biologist to help us, and we planted --
8:21:11 instead of the little tiny pond trees, -- pond
8:21:13 plants, around the retention we planted six feet
8:21:18 of cypress trees around our little wetland with a
8:21:21 great cost to my mom, she wasn't too happy about
8:21:24 it, but I wanted to show you yesterday we took
8:21:25 these pictures.
8:21:29 These trees after 1987 are over 20 feet tall.
8:21:33 These cypress trees -- I heard they were talking
8:21:34 about a cypress project.
8:21:38 I can tell you from research that I read from the
8:21:41 Journal for Surface Water Quality Professionals,
8:21:44 that trees are the oldest new thing in stormwater
8:21:44 treatment.
8:21:49 A mature bald cypress can absorb 880 gallons per
8:21:52 day, depending on the soil type and saturation,
8:21:57 according to one of these studies.
8:22:01 The plan for retaining these trees, I think,
8:22:04 should be an integral part of everybody's plan.
8:22:08 If we want to help with stormwater drain-off, we
8:22:12 live in Florida, you know, we -- all of Drew Park
8:22:16 in the 1800s was all cypress, you know.
8:22:21 This was the very last cypress wetlands that's
8:22:26 left in Drew Park, and I just wanted to say that
8:22:28 healthy trees in our communities are going to help
8:22:30 improve our environment.
8:22:34 You can imagine how much carbon was made when we
8:22:37 grew these trees from 1987.
8:22:42 So I just encourage everyone here to make trees a
8:22:45 priority when they're considering this -- their
8:22:49 own property, and I know that Joan -- that they --
8:22:52 if they haven't done so yet, I think they should
8:22:58 set up a committee to respond to people's requests
8:23:01 at -- okay, if you plant trees, then you're going
8:23:05 to absorb 880 gallons per day, let's give these
8:23:07 people credit for the amount of trees that they
8:23:09 plant on their property.
8:23:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:23:12 >> It will go a long way to helping our stormwater
8:23:13 problem in the City.
8:23:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:23:15 Thank you so much.
8:23:17 Next, please.
8:23:18 >> Good evening.
8:23:19 My name is Mark Creek.
8:23:23 I reside at 804 West Kentucky Avenue in Riverside
8:23:25 Heights.
8:23:28 I'm for the improvement to the sewer and
8:23:33 stormwater runoff; however, I have the concerns
8:23:35 about the assessment and the way that it's being
8:23:36 assessed.
8:23:38 There's been an increase over the years, I think,
8:23:43 as we've heard earlier that it started in 2003, at
8:23:46 least I've seen an assessment on my tax records
8:23:47 since 2003.
8:23:52 It started with $35, went the $59, went to $136,
8:23:54 and now whatever the amount is that is being
8:23:56 proposed, so it's going to be an increase, so it's
8:23:59 been an increase over the years.
8:24:01 Also, the maps are not clear, from what I could
8:24:06 find online, for the central and lower basin that
8:24:08 define the improvement area.
8:24:11 It also would be helpful to understand or have a
8:24:13 better understanding the timeline of the proposed
8:24:17 project.
8:24:19 The specific areas to be completed and how will
8:24:23 that be communicated to homeowners in their
8:24:25 neighborhoods.
8:24:28 One example is a concern -- assessment for my
8:24:34 property is 1.66 ESUs, I think that was the term.
8:24:38 The square footage of my house is just 1700 square
8:24:43 feet, so I guess we take into calculation of the
8:24:46 impervious area, but if we look at the impervious
8:24:51 area or the area around my home, which is pavers,
8:24:55 the runoff in the backyard runs to the ground.
8:24:57 It doesn't run to the street, it runs to the
8:24:58 backyard.
8:25:03 So I'm not sure how that's calculated.
8:25:06 So I can understand if it runs from the driveway
8:25:09 into the street, but the backyard pavers and all
8:25:14 that runs to the backyard.
8:25:16 So that's pretty much my concerns and thoughts.
8:25:17 Thank you.
8:25:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:25:20 Next, please.
8:25:27 >> My name is Thomas Dudley, 3311 East Sevilla
8:25:30 Circle, South Tampa.
8:25:35 I want to say I'm for this assessment, though my
8:25:42 only concern is the actual implementation thereof.
8:25:45 Suffice it to say we've been kind of a squeaky
8:25:50 wheel with stormwater, to no avail, and it's
8:25:55 funny, I ran across the -- the same assessment
8:26:01 from 2005 that we got in the mail just last month
8:26:06 and wondering what the difference was.
8:26:09 We obviously have the same issues with rickety
8:26:15 infrastructure, old, you know, small pipes, curbs
8:26:21 that are -- that abut each other creating pools of
8:26:24 water that doesn't make it to the drains.
8:26:27 It can't push the water anyway.
8:26:32 So my concern is, you know, hey the assessment is
8:26:36 all fine and dandy, how do we know we're actually
8:26:41 included in this process as small street on the
8:26:45 side of a major, you know -- the major streets?
8:26:51 I haven't been able to get that question answered,
8:26:55 and, you know, heck, we have a hard enough time
8:27:00 getting a pump truck out to try to remediate the
8:27:05 one drain that works, so I've got no problem with
8:27:08 the assessment, assuming it's actually implemented
8:27:19 within a time frame, you know, where we don't, you
8:27:22 know, lose all our possessions to flooding because
8:27:25 it is getting worse.
8:27:29 We live in a wake zone for all intents and
8:27:37 purposes during just minor rains, and so I -- you
8:27:40 know, we leave a lot of messages, we try to --
8:27:45 I've sent probably 60 megs worth of pictures to
8:27:45 stormwater.
8:27:47 I've got multiple cases open.
8:27:50 I can't get them followed up.
8:27:53 Modus operandi is the voicemail is full.
8:27:55 They don't reply.
8:28:01 Emails don't get responded to, and I guess my
8:28:02 complaint is with the actual implementation
8:28:05 thereof.
8:28:08 If it gets done and we get the rickety
8:28:11 infrastructure issue squared away, hopefully it
8:28:14 helps resolve some of the problems that we're
8:28:18 experiencing.
8:28:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:28:21 Next, please.
8:28:24 >> Hello.
8:28:28 Joe Fortson, I reside at 1211 East Idlewild
8:28:34 Avenue, Hampton Terrace.
8:28:35 I'd like to correct a couple things that I heard
8:28:40 since I've been here this evening.
8:28:43 One was mentioning be neighborhood associations
8:28:47 being notified through email and scheduling
8:28:50 meetings for neighborhoods.
8:28:52 I'm the vice president of a neighborhood
8:28:54 recognized with the City.
8:28:57 I got no email, nothing about hardships whatsoever
8:29:08 for my 590 homes in my association.
8:29:10 The one slide that they were talking to the one
8:29:12 lady on the phone, the last column on there they
8:29:16 were talking about 44% of the Florida cities
8:29:22 provide discounts for harvesting, collecting
8:29:27 rainwater, storing it, keeping it off -- keeping
8:29:30 -- getting it collected before it hits the ground.
8:29:35 I sent everyone on the Council -- I sent the
8:29:41 mayor, I sent the water department, and I sent the
8:29:45 Governor the same plans, study from the University
8:29:50 of Florida, study from the City of Melbourne.
8:29:53 Melbourne has been capturing rainwater for five
8:29:53 years now.
8:29:55 I got no response from anyone other than the
8:29:57 governor.
8:30:01 The governor sent a letter from the EPA gentleman,
8:30:04 and he, you know, pointed out some things that we
8:30:07 could work on, but, you know, until we start -- I
8:30:09 have a little nine-year-old daughter.
8:30:13 My number one concern for her since I've lived
8:30:16 here for 52 years is if she's going to have water
8:30:20 to drink by the time we pay this.
8:30:23 You talk about, you know, Henderson and Dale Mabry
8:30:24 flooding.
8:30:30 If all those businesses, Christ the King, Publix,
8:30:33 Fresh Market, if they all collected the rainwater
8:30:37 and we somehow collected it and took it to the
8:30:41 processing plant, I don't understand it.
8:30:46 I can remember back in '05 when we had a drought,
8:30:49 when we couldn't wash our cars, when we couldn't
8:30:51 water our grass.
8:30:52 Why?
8:30:54 Because we didn't have enough drinking water.
8:30:59 And then I -- you know, that's when I found out
8:31:02 that Tampa Bay Water actually sells the City the
8:31:06 water, so that's why probably we don't get much
8:31:08 done now, so that's all I've got.
8:31:10 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:31:11 Mr. Miranda.
8:31:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may, I need to make a
8:31:13 correction.
8:31:16 I agree with most of what you said, but we haven't
8:31:19 bought water from Tampa Bay Water in almost three
8:31:19 years.
8:31:22 During that period of time, we struggled a lot,
8:31:24 you're right, and we had to bring pipes in from
8:31:27 Texas and do what we had to do to get water to the
8:31:30 customers, but the City -- and I'm not just --
8:31:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We're not having a discussion.
8:31:35 He just wants to point out something factual.
8:31:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The City is the one that got us
8:31:41 through by conserving water and getting us through
8:31:43 the drought, and I'm just making a statement to
8:31:44 the general public.
8:31:47 There's ample water right now for at least 15, 20
8:31:49 years, and the City's working on a long-range plan
8:31:52 to have water with Mr. Baird leading it and the
8:31:54 water department for the next 100 years, so your
8:31:56 daughter will have water.
8:31:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
8:31:59 Let's try and refrain and let the rest of the
8:31:59 public talk.
8:32:01 Ma'am.
8:32:02 >> Good evening, Council.
8:32:04 I'm Christine Acosta.
8:32:08 I live at 3301 Bayshore Boulevard.
8:32:11 I'm here to urge that you vote yes on this
8:32:12 stormwater referendum.
8:32:17 You may be wondering what walk/bike vision zero
8:32:20 advocate has to say about stormwater issues.
8:32:22 I thought the same thing when I attended a
8:32:24 conference and a stormwater expert was presenting
8:32:28 at a Vision Zero discussion.
8:32:31 That was in Fort Lauderdale in May.
8:32:37 The case study that was presented was by the City
8:32:38 of Miami Beach.
8:32:42 The City of Miami Beach has embarked on a
8:32:44 significant stormwater management infrastructure
8:32:46 to better manage its floodwaters and to just
8:32:49 become a more resilient city.
8:32:52 These were my key takeaways that I think are
8:32:54 pertinent for your decision-making tonight.
8:32:58 What they noted and showed us images of were that
8:33:00 flooding prohibits the passage of emergency
8:33:01 vehicles.
8:33:05 We saw one picture of a police car this evening,
8:33:07 but I'm sure that that is the case, that they
8:33:08 cannot pass.
8:33:11 Flooding is very disruptive to the businesses of
8:33:16 all sizes, but disproportionately to small
8:33:17 businesses.
8:33:19 That's something we shouldn't -- we should protect
8:33:22 our small businesses so they can operate.
8:33:25 The slides that were presented from the City of
8:33:28 Miami Beach were just so dramatic.
8:33:30 The work that they have done there has been
8:33:34 covered by National Geographic, and, I mean, it is
8:33:36 a big deal, and they actually have risen -- they
8:33:39 have elevated some of their roadways by 2.5 feet.
8:33:42 It sounds crazy, but they have done it, and after
8:33:45 the first couple of streets were done and the
8:33:47 community was just so frustrated with the
8:33:50 construction and all that, the new roadways turned
8:33:54 out so beautiful and so spectacular that other
8:33:56 road -- other citizens and businesses came and
8:34:00 said, could you do our street too.
8:34:03 So this is the part that ties into making our city
8:34:07 a better place for the -- for all of us.
8:34:10 The tie-in to the Vision Zero and roadway
8:34:14 improvement is that the City of Miami Beach
8:34:18 completed the stormwater system's renovations and
8:34:20 they rebuilt the road with complete streets and
8:34:24 Vision Zero qualities, not at an additional cost,
8:34:26 but they had to put it all back together when
8:34:28 they're done with the stormwater maintenance and
8:34:30 improvement, so they took the opportunity, they
8:34:34 took -- they had to -- they used the necessary
8:34:37 evil of maintenance and repair to their roadways
8:34:39 to improve their city.
8:34:43 It's a fantastic story, and I think that it
8:34:44 applies here too.
8:34:45 Thank you.
8:34:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:34:48 Next, please.
8:34:55 >> Kathleen Durdin, 1820 West Richardson Place,
8:34:57 and I'm also president of the Historic Hyde Park
8:35:00 Neighborhood Association.
8:35:01 The neighborhood association and myself believes
8:35:05 the City desperately needs the improvements that
8:35:07 would be funded by assessments.
8:35:10 Years of inadequate funding have resulted in a
8:35:11 system that has difficulty dealing with the
8:35:15 typical summer rain much less events like we had
8:35:16 today and yesterday.
8:35:18 Completion of the capital improvements is
8:35:21 necessary for the long-term development and
8:35:23 prosperity of the City of Tampa.
8:35:25 I find it difficult to expect businesses to move
8:35:28 to Tampa or continue to invest in their businesses
8:35:32 when the City cannot and will not solve a basic
8:35:34 problem that frequently makes transportation
8:35:36 impossible.
8:35:39 Many of us spend countless hours avoiding areas if
8:35:42 it rains or even if rain is predicted or change
8:35:43 our schedules, leave work early, defer
8:35:47 appointments, as we heard, a complete waste of
8:35:47 time and effort.
8:35:50 Major rain events could result in lost businesses,
8:35:52 as many of us remain home.
8:35:53 The City cannot continue to defer these
8:35:56 much-needed improvements, which will result in the
8:35:58 situation only getting worse.
8:36:01 Investment in Tampa will benefit all of the city,
8:36:04 enhancing business development and expansion of
8:36:04 the city.
8:36:06 Conversely, not making these investments will
8:36:09 negatively impact the economic development of the
8:36:09 entire city.
8:36:10 Thank you.
8:36:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:36:13 Next, please.
8:36:16 >> Hi.
8:36:20 My name is Juanette Thomas.
8:36:22 [Off microphone]
8:36:25 My mom passed in August 2015.
8:36:28 She had been fighting with the City development
8:36:31 project since then -- since the projects have
8:36:31 developed.
8:36:34 Now you have had everything from CRA development
8:36:37 area on my mom's properties that she was
8:36:38 hospitalized when this was done.
8:36:40 I had no knowledge of that.
8:36:42 Now you want us to pay for a stormwater system
8:36:45 that you have forgotten about her since 1995 in
8:36:46 her area.
8:36:48 I feel it should have been done then.
8:36:51 Why can't we pay the amount it should have cost 20
8:36:53 years ago if you decide to do this?
8:36:55 I really think you all dropped the ball because my
8:36:58 mom was forgotten about because she became the
8:37:01 only homeowner on that lower Highland Avenue, and
8:37:03 she has lived there since 1931.
8:37:06 My grandfather built that home for my grandmother,
8:37:08 years before my mom was born.
8:37:10 You're the ones that forget my mom's stormwater.
8:37:11 You're doing this now because of the redevelopment
8:37:14 of the height project, not because you care about
8:37:14 the residents.
8:37:17 My mom -- there's only two houses on her block.
8:37:19 I want to know when they redevelop the area, when
8:37:22 they're going to build all these houses and
8:37:24 condominiums, are the developers going to pay for
8:37:24 this?
8:37:26 Are the people who own the condominiums are going
8:37:28 to pay for this also along with us?
8:37:32 We're only two houses on that block, and we -- I
8:37:34 get -- asked the City to do our stormwater.
8:37:37 When they opened up the manhole, there was no
8:37:37 water down there.
8:37:40 They was like I don't even know how this existed.
8:37:42 You forgot about us.
8:37:43 Now you want us to pay for this.
8:37:45 I don't get it.
8:37:47 Thanks.
8:37:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:37:50 Next, please.
8:37:54 >> Good evening.
8:37:57 My name is Mamie Lucas.
8:38:03 I live at 3213 North 44th Street, and it is in
8:38:04 East Tampa.
8:38:06 When I listened to the gentleman tonight and he
8:38:09 displayed the different areas that was going to be
8:38:12 covered, my area is not included in that.
8:38:17 I live between Hillsborough and 50th Street.
8:38:21 I have a complaint about the retention centers --
8:38:22 retention ponds.
8:38:25 I have at least about 11 retention ponds in
8:38:27 Highland Pines.
8:38:29 That's the subdivision that I live in.
8:38:32 They don't keep them clean, they're dirty, they're
8:38:33 filthy.
8:38:38 There's grass growing everywhere in them.
8:38:40 Of course no water can't get through.
8:38:42 Where's it going?
8:38:44 It can't get in there because it's all built up.
8:38:47 You could build 100, 100 retention ponds, but if
8:38:50 they don't keep them up, you're still defeating
8:38:51 your whole purpose.
8:38:54 I'm not opposed to them charging me.
8:38:56 Now, I worked hard to pay for my house.
8:39:00 I worked 30 years, and now you're telling me again
8:39:03 now I got to worry about 30 more years.
8:39:05 I'm not going to live to see this through.
8:39:08 I know I'm not going to live to see this through.
8:39:10 I don't think it's fair.
8:39:14 If this thing is for the whole City of Tampa, then
8:39:18 if you must do it, let everybody pay.
8:39:23 Everybody uses the roads -- every single road,
8:39:26 each and every one of us use it, so let the whole
8:39:30 city be assessed if you have to go along with this
8:39:30 program.
8:39:34 It is not fair because the poor is paying for
8:39:37 this, and as another person said, the rich is
8:39:40 sliding by, just like in Hyde Park.
8:39:43 My sister, somebody just built a million-dollar
8:39:45 house in front of her house, a million-dollar
8:39:47 house in that neighborhood.
8:39:49 Are they paying?
8:39:51 Are they paying?
8:39:53 That's my question to you tonight.
8:39:58 It is not fair for us to have to assume this for
8:40:02 30 years, but if -- if you put -- if you levy this
8:40:05 on me, I'll be more than happy to do whatever I
8:40:09 can do to pay mine, but make sure everybody else
8:40:11 pays.
8:40:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
8:40:13 Next, please.
8:40:17 >> My name's Steven Lytle.
8:40:19 322 West Giddens Avenue.
8:40:22 I have a unique situation, as I lived in Seminole
8:40:25 Heights for about 2.5 years now, and prior to that
8:40:27 I lived in South Tampa, so I've seen the flooding
8:40:28 in both areas.
8:40:31 In addition to that, I've had the pleasure of
8:40:33 serving on the budget advisory committee with a
8:40:36 couple people who are already here, and the City
8:40:40 staff, I'd be remiss, if I didn't say they taught
8:40:42 me a ton about the City's budget.
8:40:45 With that being said, I know you guys -- I'll just
8:40:48 say guys for now -- ran for City Council and made
8:40:50 a commitment to improve this city and leave it
8:40:53 better when you leave your position than when you
8:40:53 got in.
8:40:56 This is not a problem, as we've heard from -- we
8:40:58 have heard from the audience that has just
8:41:00 started, something we're taking care of.
8:41:03 I heard back as far as 1955.
8:41:05 We're at a precipice now.
8:41:06 We've been at a precipice.
8:41:08 It's now time to take care of that.
8:41:10 You clarified your issues last year, from what
8:41:12 I've read, with the proposal, and I think some of
8:41:14 those issues have been addressed, including
8:41:20 decreasing the costs, giving mitigation credits,
8:41:22 as well as financial hardships, and tonight I
8:41:24 heard some new things that, you know, have come
8:41:24 up.
8:41:29 One of those was talking about the 157 million in
8:41:31 interest that would be charged.
8:41:34 And I think that's a good thing to bring up.
8:41:37 However, right now we're spending almost $18
8:41:39 million to maintain an antiquated system that's
8:41:42 100 years old, and we're not doing anything but
8:41:44 maintaining something that's 100 years old.
8:41:46 Just like when you get old and have to take more
8:41:48 medicine, it's going to cost more to fix that
8:41:50 every year, so we need to address these issues now
8:41:53 because we're just maintaining the underperforming
8:41:54 status quo.
8:41:56 These costs as we fix that system will decline to
8:41:57 maintain.
8:41:59 In addition to that, I've heard about the $20
8:42:02 million from the CIT and the grants and using that
8:42:05 for one project at a time, which I think is great,
8:42:07 but that only addresses one issue at a time, and
8:42:11 where that 20 million from the CIT gets taken, how
8:42:13 are we going to maintain the rest of those pipes
8:42:14 that are now breaking?
8:42:16 You've got to find the money somehow.
8:42:18 Also heard how this makes a negative impact on
8:42:22 those with low income, and I can understand that,
8:42:25 but the cost of what this would be for one
8:42:27 single-family home is probably equal to what one
8:42:31 day of missed pay is because of flooding in front
8:42:33 of somebody's house when they can't go to work.
8:42:34 Something to think about.
8:42:37 I think one thing I heard that really stuck out
8:42:40 was there will be very few of us in the room when
8:42:42 you guys pass the budget, and with that, I
8:42:45 probably agree, and we do trust you, like you
8:42:48 said, but we trusted you when you spent money on
8:42:49 Julian VUA.
8:42:51 You could have spent that money on stormwater.
8:42:53 We trust you with the budget.
8:42:54 Obviously, we didn't trust you enough, that's why
8:42:55 we're here now.
8:42:58 I want you guys to think about what the most basic
8:43:01 needs are for the City of Tampa, public safety,
8:43:03 Swann Avenue is underwater right in front of a
8:43:03 hospital.
8:43:06 Transportation, you can't get by Henderson and
8:43:06 Dale Mabry.
8:43:09 When you're on Florida Avenue, it's underwater
8:43:10 when it rains hard.
8:43:11 And the quality of life.
8:43:14 So I know some of you have been more innovative in
8:43:16 your approach and your votes, and I ask you to
8:43:18 continue to do that and not just continue to kick
8:43:20 the can down the road and vote for the same thing
8:43:22 that Council has done year after year.
8:43:23 Thank you.
8:43:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:43:26 >> Thanks.
8:43:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Next, please.
8:43:30 >> Good evening, council members.
8:43:33 Donna Stark, 214 West Haya Street.
8:43:36 I am here this evening to speak in favor of the
8:43:37 stormwater assessment and actually, my remarks
8:43:42 will end up echoing Mr. Lytle in some degree as
8:43:43 well.
8:43:45 First I would like to begin by giving you five
8:43:48 locations, West Giddens Avenue at North Tampa
8:43:51 Street, West Highland Avenue, North Boulevard at
8:43:54 West Hilda Avenue, North Lynn at Osborne, and
8:43:56 Clearfield Avenue for several blocks south of
8:43:58 Osborne.
8:44:00 Besides all being located in south Seminole
8:44:03 Heights, they share a commonality, and that is
8:44:04 they flood when it rains.
8:44:07 These have been all reported repeatedly to the
8:44:09 City in the three years that I have lived in that
8:44:09 neighborhood.
8:44:12 I'm not talking about an 8- to 12-inch rain, a
8:44:17 once in 100-year event, I am talking about the
8:44:20 daily storms and winter cold fronts we receive.
8:44:23 Osborne at Lynn is adjacent to Broward Elementary
8:44:24 School.
8:44:26 The crosswalk is under ankle deep water and deeper
8:44:29 still if you go back on to Lynn Avenue.
8:44:31 My residents and school children have to walk into
8:44:33 a collector road to get past that flooding.
8:44:36 It has not been addressed. Department of
8:44:38 Stormwater has stated that we have a basin in that
8:44:40 area that needs drainage lines, and it's only
8:44:43 going to happen if we have more money, and there
8:44:45 is no money that is available for it, and it is
8:44:47 not immediately impacting any property, so it's
8:44:49 not on the top burner.
8:44:51 Our neighbors in southeast Seminole Heights are
8:44:54 more heavily impacted than we are.
8:44:56 I hear the concerns about fixed income and poor
8:44:57 residents.
8:44:58 We have several in my neighborhood.
8:45:00 We've had, you know, several talks about this
8:45:02 issue, but I've also heard a lot of complaints
8:45:06 that -- from folks that wouldn't mind paying the
8:45:09 assessment but have concerns because the money
8:45:11 will be diverted to other areas and once again it
8:45:13 will not be addressed.
8:45:15 What I say to them and what I'm saying to you
8:45:18 tonight is the reality is this is not a South
8:45:21 Tampa issue, this is a City of Tampa issue, it
8:45:22 impacts all of us.
8:45:26 We all use our roads, we all have to get to work,
8:45:28 we all have to get to school, we need to be able
8:45:30 to cross our sidewalks and not have them flooded.
8:45:32 You know, what happens, what's the economic impact
8:45:36 when we have to shut our businesses down, when we
8:45:38 can't get to work because our house is flooded,
8:45:41 when we have to file insurance claims, when our
8:45:43 emergency personnel cannot get to a victim that
8:45:45 needs assistance or an ambulance cannot reach a
8:45:46 hospital?
8:45:48 How would you feel if that was your husband or
8:45:51 wife, your child, your grandparent, your brother
8:45:54 or sister that is in that situation?
8:45:58 We are part of the 26th largest metro region in
8:45:59 the United States, and we are discussing an issue
8:46:03 that I would expect to hear in a second or third
8:46:04 world country.
8:46:06 There is no magic pill, there is no perfect
8:46:09 solution, and Santa Claus is not delivering a sack
8:46:10 of money to us to fix this.
8:46:13 We have to take responsibility and action to solve
8:46:15 our own problems and stop kicking that can down
8:46:16 the road.
8:46:17 Thank you.
8:46:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:46:20 Next, please.
8:46:24 >> My name is Dikran Kalaydjian.
8:46:27 I live at 808 South Bella Vista.
8:46:30 I'm here to urge you to vote yes, and I've been
8:46:32 living in Tampa for 32 years.
8:46:37 How long have we been talking about this issue?
8:46:40 It's time to really take responsibility and fix
8:46:40 it.
8:46:43 One thing that I wanted to mention is about the
8:46:43 economic impact.
8:46:47 Are we tracking how many insurance claims there
8:46:49 have been out there and how much time has been
8:46:52 lost from work in terms the of not being able to
8:46:54 live your everyday life?
8:46:59 I myself, I know I always call my wife before I go
8:47:01 home to make sure the summer afternoon rains, if
8:47:03 the roads are open for me to get home or not.
8:47:06 How many times have I been stuck in the middle of
8:47:07 the flooded roads?
8:47:09 So it's enough talking about it, let's take
8:47:10 action, let's fix it.
8:47:11 That's all I have to say.
8:47:12 Thank you.
8:47:13 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
8:47:15 Next, please.
8:47:16 >> Hi.
8:47:17 I'm [Inaudible]
8:47:20 I live at 314 West Euclid Avenue.
8:47:24 I've lived there for 16 years, and I also travel
8:47:26 to third world countries a lot.
8:47:29 When I go to India almost every year and it rains
8:47:31 and the roads are flooded and cars are floating
8:47:34 and people can't get to work and the stormwater is
8:47:38 mixing with the storm sewer and the power lines
8:47:40 come down and the water is electrified, it's
8:47:41 expected.
8:47:43 I like Tampa.
8:47:46 For stormwater, I'd be happy with second class,
8:47:48 third class, fourth class.
8:47:50 I really urge you to spend this money because as
8:47:54 others have mentioned, there is a real cost.
8:47:56 We're not saving anything by not paying this
8:47:58 bonding money or the other money.
8:48:00 We're losing money in business development,
8:48:02 productivity.
8:48:03 Another one I haven't really heard mentioned, I've
8:48:07 heard it kind of hinted around, but, you know,
8:48:10 we're spend ago lot of money in maintenance.
8:48:13 To me this is sort of like buying your car one
8:48:15 piece at a time at Auto Zone.
8:48:18 It's going to cost you 100 times what the car
8:48:19 would cost new.
8:48:22 Not paying this is kind of like not going to your
8:48:25 health checkup annual and then having a heart
8:48:27 attack a few years later.
8:48:28 And I want to mention, we haven't heard too much
8:48:30 about FEMA.
8:48:32 FEMA's floodplains are expanding every year.
8:48:38 I think I read that we had eight events of over
8:48:39 500 years in the last couple months.
8:48:42 That's not normal, and every year they're getting
8:48:43 more and more and more.
8:48:46 They're expanding the subplain so a lot more of us
8:48:49 are paying 3-, 4-, 5,000 a year in insurance, so
8:48:52 we're saving 80 bucks, but, you know, later when
8:48:55 the floodplain expands three, four, five times,
8:48:56 we're just going to spend it.
8:48:58 The other thing is if you actually take positive
8:49:00 steps, you can reduce your FEMA costs, your
8:49:01 assessments.
8:49:04 I think -- I think we will save it many, many
8:49:07 times over, so I personally am very, very happy to
8:49:09 pay whatever my assessment is because I think it
8:49:12 will save me and all of Tampa in the long run that
8:49:13 many, many times over.
8:49:13 Thank you.
8:49:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:49:16 Next, please.
8:49:23 >> Daniel Parsons, 4716 West Estrella.
8:49:27 Thank you, Council members, for your time that you
8:49:29 serve on there, on the Council and your continued
8:49:33 effort to improve the City.
8:49:37 And I urge you to vote yes for this stormwater
8:49:41 assessment today to continue that improvement for
8:49:44 the future of the City of Tampa.
8:49:47 As many of us have mentioned today, the City of
8:49:50 Tampa is a very old city.
8:49:53 Much of our infrastructure dates back to the '30s
8:49:55 and '40s.
8:49:57 There's been a lot of development since that time
8:49:58 period, obviously.
8:50:01 Some of the infrastructure still dates back to the
8:50:10 '30s and '40s, and yet we can't improve upon this.
8:50:12 It's baffling.
8:50:18 Now, another example would be the business owners
8:50:22 that potentially moving into the City.
8:50:25 Do you not think business owners looking at these
8:50:29 repetitive street flooding over and over -- it's
8:50:32 not going to keep them from bringing their
8:50:35 business, their jobs, their potential revenue to
8:50:35 the City?
8:50:40 It -- I think it's a no-brainer, and to touch on
8:50:43 the FEMA aspect, your CRS rating could potentially
8:50:50 be lowered, saving residents money, not -- not
8:50:55 only just small amounts of money but, I mean, much
8:50:58 greater amounts of money than we're talking about
8:51:01 tonight.
8:51:04 Again, I urge you to vote yes for the stormwater
8:51:05 assessment.
8:51:05 Thank you.
8:51:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:51:08 Next, please.
8:51:12 >> Good evening, council members, Gina Grimes are
8:51:14 the law firm of Hill Ward & Henderson.
8:51:18 I'm here tonight representing Asbury Automotive.
8:51:22 They own about four dealerships on Dale Mabry and
8:51:22 Hillsborough.
8:51:25 Collectively, those dealerships over the 30-year
8:51:28 term of this improvement assessment will pay over
8:51:29 a million dollars.
8:51:31 I've attended most of these stormwater hearings.
8:51:34 I've even met individually with your staff several
8:51:37 times to discuss the issue that's of interest to
8:51:40 us, and that's the mitigation credit policy.
8:51:43 Back in May of this year you adopted some
8:51:47 revisions to the Chapter 21, the Stormwater
8:51:50 Ordinance, and those revisions addressed the
8:51:52 documents that have to be or can be submitted to
8:51:55 apply for a credit, but I told you back in May and
8:51:57 I'm here to tell you tonight that those revisions
8:52:01 alone did not address the heart of the issue, and
8:52:03 the heart of the issue is the amount of the
8:52:05 mitigation credit that can be obtained the way the
8:52:07 policy is written right now.
8:52:09 We assert that the amount of the credit should be
8:52:13 based on the benefit yielded by the stormwater
8:52:17 improvement that commercial property owners have
8:52:18 to build on their sites.
8:52:21 In the resolution that the staff has provided to
8:52:23 you, they have a finding that they're requiring
8:52:27 you to make, and that finding states that the
8:52:30 Council, not the City, but the Council finds that
8:52:32 the mitigation credit policy is, quote, fair and
8:52:34 reasonable, and therefore, you're approving it.
8:52:37 So what is this policy that you're approving?
8:52:39 Well, it's pretty simple.
8:52:42 You either get zero credit, 10% credit, or is00%
8:52:46 credit -- or 100% credit, that's it.
8:52:48 So you have zero credit if you have no stormwater
8:52:51 facility, you get 100% credit if you're lucky
8:52:55 enough to live on Harbour Island or New Tampa, you
8:52:57 pay zero or nothing.
8:52:59 You get 10% if you have any kind of stormwater
8:53:01 facility on your site, regardless of the type of
8:53:03 facility it is, regardless of the age, regardless
8:53:06 of the quality or the benefit that that stormwater
8:53:09 facility provides, so it could be an old pond or
8:53:13 it could be a new high-quality stormwater vault,
8:53:16 doesn't matter, you get 10%, that's it.
8:53:19 Is that fair and reasonable, because that's what
8:53:20 you're finding.
8:53:21 That's what you're required to find.
8:53:23 So why is the City addressing the mitigation
8:53:25 credit in this fashion?
8:53:28 Well, I can tell you, number one, it's easy to
8:53:29 administer it.
8:53:32 You either have a pond or you don't have a pond,
8:53:35 and you either live in Harbour Island or you live
8:53:39 in New Tampa, so you get 0, 10, or 100.
8:53:40 It's pretty simple.
8:53:42 The other reason, I believe, that they're
8:53:44 addressing it this way is because it makes it easy
8:53:48 to predict their revenue stream if you cap the
8:53:50 credits at 10%.
8:53:51 I don't understand and I don't know how you can
8:53:54 say it's fair and reasonable for anyone to get
8:53:55 100% credit.
8:53:57 They drive on the streets, they have to have
8:53:59 emergency vehicle access, they have to go to their
8:54:00 jobs.
8:54:01 Why do they pay nothing?
8:54:02 Why?
8:54:04 Is that fair and reasonable?
8:54:06 I don't think so.
8:54:09 We're asking you to adopt a policy that examines
8:54:13 the type of stormwater improvement that's built
8:54:15 and let the credit be based on the quality that
8:54:17 that improvement provides.
8:54:17 Thank you.
8:54:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:54:22 Next, please.
8:54:26 >> Good evening, Council members.
8:54:29 Father Len Plazewski, pastor of Christ the King,
8:54:31 821 South Dale Mabry.
8:54:37 As we all know, this last week lost a man named
8:54:39 Monsignor Higgins.
8:54:41 He had a great love for this community, the City
8:54:44 of Tampa, and the people that make it up.
8:54:49 I think we all agreed that we always try to do
8:54:51 what's best for our community, even if those
8:54:52 decisions are not easy.
8:54:56 While I'm not personally a property owner, I'm
8:54:59 responsible for the parish and school.
8:55:02 This encompasses over three full city blocks.
8:55:05 Our property itself is relatively high, so we do
8:55:07 not experience flooding directly, although I often
8:55:10 have a firsthand view of what happens at Dale
8:55:13 Mabry and Henderson during the summer rains.
8:55:15 If adopted, this stormwater improvement assessment
8:55:19 will cost my parish a significant amount of money.
8:55:23 Ultimately, the yearly fees would, when it tops
8:55:25 out, about $10,000 a year.
8:55:27 You might think, therefore, that I'm here to
8:55:30 oppose this fee, but what is in the best interest
8:55:33 of this community sometimes comes with a price.
8:55:37 Believe you me, I would rather not pay this fee,
8:55:41 but it is sound Catholic teaching to not just look
8:55:45 after one's self-interests but rather to do what
8:55:48 is in the best interest of the common good.
8:55:50 It is not in the common good that so many of our
8:55:54 streets continue to flood on a regular basis, but
8:55:57 the price here is not just this fee.
8:56:00 When our streets flood, it creates a public safety
8:56:01 issue.
8:56:04 Commerce is affected, as people are unable to get
8:56:04 to work.
8:56:07 Even more than that, many who are most vulnerable,
8:56:10 namely the elderly and the working poor, are hurt
8:56:12 the most.
8:56:14 Our elderly end up trapped in their homes, cut off
8:56:17 from others.
8:56:21 Council members, I'm sure all of you have full
8:56:24 auto insurance coverage, so if your car gets
8:56:26 flooded, you have no problems getting it fixed and
8:56:28 cleaned out, but that is not the case with so many
8:56:33 in our community who work paycheck to paycheck.
8:56:38 Likewise, those same individuals do not get paid
8:56:41 when they're unable to get to work or do not get
8:56:43 paid when their business is closed because of
8:56:43 flooding.
8:56:45 The truth of the matter is this is not about
8:56:50 exclusive neighborhoods but rather about some of
8:56:52 our most traveled roads used by everyone.
8:56:56 I, therefore, strongly urge you to put individual
8:57:00 self-interests aside and do what's best for our
8:57:03 community by approving this agenda item.
8:57:04 Thank you.
8:57:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
8:57:06 Next, please.
8:57:09 >> Good evening.
8:57:12 Mike Peterson, general affairs counsel for the
8:57:14 Greater Tampa Association of Realtors.
8:57:17 We're not here to oppose the need and the desire
8:57:20 to improve stormwater situations throughout the
8:57:24 City of Tampa, but we again oppose this particular
8:57:27 methodology before you for many of the reasons
8:57:29 you've already heard.
8:57:33 There are built-in inequities in this system, some
8:57:36 of it simply because it's fee-based, and no one
8:57:40 cared that much when it was originally done for
8:57:43 maintenance purposes and, therefore, the fees were
8:57:45 relatively low, and everyone went, okay, we can
8:57:47 live with that, but those problems have been
8:57:51 magnified by the amounts we're talking about, and
8:57:52 no longer is this just about maintenance, which,
8:57:55 by the way, your methodology expert when they tell
8:57:57 you about these programs around the state,
8:58:00 recognize many of them are primarily maintenance
8:58:03 with some improvement, perhaps, but what you're
8:58:05 talking about tonight is a major Capital
8:58:10 Improvement Program, and that's what's a little
8:58:12 different this time, so when everyone starts
8:58:14 seeing the amount of the numbers we're talking and
8:58:19 the impacts on what people will pay, it started
8:58:22 getting people’s attention and they started looking
8:58:25 at the system and began to see these inequities.
8:58:27 So when you hear everyone before you talk about
8:58:29 how necessary this is and how it is for the
8:58:32 benefit of everyone throughout the City, you then
8:58:35 wonder, well, then, why are certain areas exempt?
8:58:38 And the maintenance program, I understand that,
8:58:40 because they run their own systems and they
8:58:43 maintain their own systems, but this Capital
8:58:47 Improvement Program, which is looking at road
8:58:50 flooding issues and a lot of other things, may
8:58:53 have an impact on many of those people who
8:58:56 otherwise are in self-served areas, and so we have
8:58:59 a concern with that exemption issue, which, by the
8:59:01 way, come from communities where most of those
8:59:03 people are better able to pay it than the others
8:59:06 who are being asked to pick up the slack, so that
8:59:10 was a concern.
8:59:13 We -- a lot of the other inequities and, you know,
8:59:19 this thing about impervious surface, again, it's
8:59:23 not a curing impervious surface measure when we're
8:59:25 dealing with the residential side because it gets
8:59:27 broken into the tier game and you've heard about
8:59:30 how that suddenly gets skewed, the lower-priced
8:59:33 properties versus the higher-priced.
8:59:35 If you just did this under general revenue, which
8:59:37 I understand might mean you have to raise more
8:59:41 general revenue, but at least that approach would
8:59:44 take care of a lot of the inequities and the weird
8:59:47 measurement problems you've been hearing about
8:59:50 tonight, and it would, in fact, hit people who
8:59:52 have the higher values who are best able to pay
8:59:56 for this kind of thing, primarily through property
9:00:00 taxes and their valuations.
9:00:03 So we understand you have a tough job and you have
9:00:05 a need to be -- a need to be addressed.
9:00:08 I'm just worried we're about to make a mistake
9:00:11 that's going to last 30 years by choosing this
9:00:11 particular methodology.
9:00:14 Thank you.
9:00:20 >> Patrick Manteiga, 3210 East 7th Avenue.
9:00:22 I've been amazed tonight to see that the City of
9:00:24 Tampa is coming really close to putting a
9:00:26 $250-million tax on rainfall.
9:00:28 I can't wait to see what you do for wind and
9:00:31 sundown the road, but this is not the right way to
9:00:31 pay for stormwater.
9:00:34 We need to have a diverse way of paying for it.
9:00:39 It's too big a price to raise with just this one
9:00:41 type of charge.
9:00:43 Earlier, somebody was asking how Hillsborough
9:00:46 County did it, and they do it a lot more fair way.
9:00:51 I was able to go down there and get their plan,
9:00:53 and it just simply reads, all developed property
9:00:55 in unincorporated Hillsborough County is subject
9:00:58 to the forgoing rates except privately maintained
9:01:00 roadways, common areas of residential development
9:01:02 property, roadways listed in Hillsborough County
9:01:05 roadway inventory, highways maintained by Florida
9:01:06 Department of Transportation, the Florida
9:01:12 Department of Revenue, Land Use Codes 80-89.
9:01:14 They tax every piece of property, and a lot of the
9:01:15 properties in had Hillsborough County are in
9:01:17 subdivisions that have their own stormwater.
9:01:23 We are exempting 15,000 properties in Tampa, most
9:01:27 of them in New Tampa, and then we have some in
9:01:28 Harbour island.
9:01:29 They were never on the rolls.
9:01:31 They were never actually even counted as
9:01:34 impervious surfaces.
9:01:36 Their lack of being counted has really messed up
9:01:38 the whole formula because they should have been
9:01:43 counted originally and then been part -- the City
9:01:45 has to pay when it wants to exempt properties.
9:01:47 Nobody's paying for those properties.
9:01:53 Earlier you were seeing a map of Councilwoman
9:01:56 Montelione's district, and I saw this and had to
9:01:59 wonder either these people built in a swamp or
9:02:01 else there were development projects that happened
9:02:03 after they moved in where they raised the property
9:02:06 height and they changed the flow, and so a lot of
9:02:11 this is our self-made problems.
9:02:15 Here's an area in New Tampa, and each of the
9:02:17 orange piece there is a city drain.
9:02:19 None of these houses may any taxes, but yet
9:02:24 they're driving on roads that are drained by the
9:02:25 City and stormwater maintenance.
9:02:26 Same thing around the airport.
9:02:29 There's lots of properties in Drew Park that are
9:02:32 not being charged for tax, and yet they have
9:02:34 drains underneath the properties, around their
9:02:35 properties, on the streets.
9:02:37 If you wanted to make it fair, you should tax
9:02:39 everybody on both types of taxes.
9:02:43 Your exempt areas on the maintenance fee are the
9:02:47 same as the areas you're excluding on this fee, so
9:02:48 they're really one and the same.
9:02:51 So I don't -- I wish you'd vote against this.
9:02:53 I think it's too high.
9:02:57 La Gaceta has a 20,000-square-foot building.
9:03:00 I will pay the exact same taxes at the Bank of
9:03:01 America building.
9:03:04 Their building's worth 120 million, ours is worth
9:03:04 300 thousand.
9:03:06 That makes no sense.
9:03:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
9:03:08 Next, please.
9:03:11 >> Hello.
9:03:15 I'm Kelly Flannery, president and CEO of the South
9:03:17 Tampa Chamber of Commerce, and I'm here tonight
9:03:19 representing more than 600 business and individual
9:03:21 members of our community.
9:03:23 We support the stormwater capital improvement
9:03:26 assessment for three reasons, to ensure the
9:03:28 quality of life of our citizens and their property
9:03:31 value; to maintain a viable climate for businesses
9:03:34 to succeed; and to ensure the protection of one of
9:03:38 our most valuable resources, MacDill Air Force
9:03:38 Base.
9:03:40 You've already heard from many of our residents
9:03:43 tonight who support and oppose this assessment.
9:03:46 To say this issue doesn't affect your neighborhood
9:03:49 or that you should not have to pay is not a valid
9:03:49 argument.
9:03:52 I do not have children in school, I do not swim in
9:03:55 our public pools, and have fortunately never
9:03:59 needed the services of TPD or fire rescue, yet I
9:04:01 happily pay taxes for all of these services
9:04:04 offered by our city and county because they are a
9:04:06 requirement to ensure a sustainable and safe
9:04:08 community for all citizens.
9:04:10 Safe roads and infrastructure should be considered
9:04:13 an equal priority for our city, no matter the
9:04:15 neighborhood in which you live.
9:04:17 The majority of businesses in our city are small.
9:04:20 These are your family, friends, and neighbors.
9:04:22 After each major rain event, I've spent time
9:04:25 speaking with dozens of business owners who have
9:04:27 experienced a loss of revenue and expense from
9:04:29 having to close their business for several days
9:04:31 and make costly repairs.
9:04:34 Additional concern is often -- is almost always
9:04:37 given to their employees who've also lost wages
9:04:39 during these events, causing a ripple effect
9:04:40 throughout our city.
9:04:43 For an employee working at minimum wage, missing
9:04:46 as little as two days of work due to a business
9:04:48 being closed or being unable to get to work
9:04:53 exceeds the $90 expense of those assessments.
9:04:55 And lastly, I'd like to talk about one of our
9:04:59 largest employers, MacDill Air Force Base, with a
9:05:03 $4-billion economic impact on our region.
9:05:05 As the home of CENTCOM, the International War on
9:05:08 Terrorism is literally being fought in our
9:05:09 backyard.
9:05:11 This assessment will ensure that the area directly
9:05:15 outside of the base south of Euclid receives the
9:05:18 necessary improvements for the 19,000 active-duty
9:05:20 service members and civilians who work at MacDill
9:05:23 and travel to and from our base every day.
9:05:25 Additionally, should our base find itself on a
9:05:29 list of closures, let's make sure our city has put
9:05:32 its best foot forward in protecting this valuable
9:05:34 asset and show that we appreciate the honor of
9:05:36 having a military base as a part of our city.
9:05:38 In closing, to quote the editorial in today's
9:05:41 Tampa Bay Times, I think they said it best.
9:05:43 The improvements are well targeted and spread
9:05:46 across the City's densest and most traveled
9:05:47 corridors.
9:05:51 Many residents work, shop, and recreate far beyond
9:05:53 their neighborhoods, maintaining the safety of
9:05:56 these streets is a citywide obligation.
9:05:57 It is your obligation.
9:06:00 By better controlling flooding, the City will
9:06:01 protect its quality of life, help to maintain
9:06:03 property value, and preserve its ability to
9:06:04 attract new business.
9:06:05 Thank you for your time.
9:06:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
9:06:08 Next, please.
9:06:14 >> Andy Joe Scaglione.
9:06:17 I won't go over some of the points again that Mike
9:06:22 Peterson went over, but to begin with, I'm also on
9:06:28 -- Guido Maniscalco's appointee on the budget.
9:06:31 Before I start, I'd like to, with all due respect,
9:06:33 my good friend had to leave for a family
9:06:35 emergency, and he wanted me to convey a couple
9:06:36 things.
9:06:38 If you would, if I go over time, if you would
9:06:39 allow that.
9:06:44 He wanted to cover the issue with hardship.
9:06:48 He felt like at 65 years old, most people are
9:06:52 going to have the re -- aren't going to have the
9:06:54 resources to go every year and get this
9:06:55 recertified.
9:06:57 It's going to be a big cost to the city on
9:06:58 administrativeness.
9:07:00 He also was concerned that future councils could
9:07:02 take it away, so you're being given something that
9:07:05 could be taken away later on because it's coming
9:07:07 out of the general revenue fund.
9:07:11 His other issue was the nonprofits.
9:07:13 As you know, Marvin is very involved with
9:07:19 nonprofits in Tampa, and Boys Club, Peter Claver,
9:07:21 the churches, and this would be their biggest
9:07:25 expense by doing it through a special assessment
9:07:27 versus doing it through a property tax, general
9:07:30 revenue.
9:07:34 So because of that, he is adamantly against this.
9:07:36 This would hurt a lot, a lot of nonprofits.
9:07:38 This would actually be one of the biggest expenses
9:07:40 they have, and so what you're doing is you're
9:07:43 hurting the nonprofits, you're hurting the
9:07:47 schools, and also you're hurting the people that
9:07:52 can't afford it, okay, that he does such a good
9:07:53 job with Mr. Reddick in East Tampa.
9:07:56 I'm going to go into my presentation now.
9:08:03 I'll start out with the lack of transparency in
9:08:07 the form that was sent.
9:08:09 There's -- last form, as you know, was on the back
9:08:10 of the sheet.
9:08:12 This one got a little better, it went on the front
9:08:15 of the sheet, but it omitted the total amount.
9:08:19 Now, people look at this and it's very, very --
9:08:20 they don't understand that five years it goes to
9:08:22 this, 15 years to 30.
9:08:25 They want to see the total accumulative amount.
9:08:26 That's missing.
9:08:28 Last time you all had it, it was on here, so
9:08:31 again, the whole form lacks transparency once
9:08:34 again.
9:08:37 I'm totally supportive, as you know, as a
9:08:39 maintenance increase, which is 7.8.
9:08:46 We're totally supportive of that, but we're not --
9:08:48 definitely not in favor of this cap.
9:08:51 This is a terrible plan a year ago and it's a
9:08:52 terrible plan today.
9:08:56 It -- the exemptions of Tampa Palms, Harbour
9:08:57 Island, Ybor City.
9:08:59 We put a lot of money in our stormwater.
9:09:01 We're not being exempt.
9:09:04 Channelside, we put $6 million in a vault there,
9:09:06 we're not being exempt.
9:09:10 And the point is is that really nobody should be
9:09:11 exempt.
9:09:13 Everybody uses the water and the roads here, and
9:09:15 it should not be exempt.
9:09:17 This would be the largest tax increase in the
9:09:20 history of the City of Tampa.
9:09:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll give you ten more seconds,
9:09:24 Mr. Scaglione.
9:09:25 >> Okay.
9:09:28 $157 million in interest, $408 million, as long as
9:09:32 I have air in my lungs, believe me, I will be
9:09:36 reminding people who voted for this because this
9:09:37 is a terrible plan.
9:09:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
9:09:39 Appreciate it.
9:09:41 Before we go to the next person, there's two more
9:09:42 people after this gentleman.
9:09:45 Is there anyone else that would like to speak?
9:09:47 If they could, if they're able to stand, please
9:09:49 stand up and be lined up so we can figure out
9:09:51 where we're going to be on this and when we're
9:09:53 going to be able to have a discussion and take a
9:09:54 vote.
9:09:56 The gentleman that's up with the white shirt, is
9:09:58 there anyone after him that would like to speak
9:09:59 who has not spoken?
9:10:02 Sir, you are going to be the last person to speak,
9:10:03 okay.
9:10:04 Anyone else?
9:10:05 Is tell you last one.
9:10:05 Thank you.
9:10:07 Sir, I apologize.
9:10:08 >> That's all right.
9:10:12 Joseph Capitano, Sr., 3400 West Lykes.
9:10:14 First of all, I can't believe this is being held
9:10:16 tonight, because I, for one, was not coming
9:10:19 tonight, the weather was so miserable outside,
9:10:22 that I said -- I read that this thing was going to
9:10:25 happen tonight a couple weeks ago, so I decided,
9:10:26 well, I better go just in case.
9:10:28 Well, I'm here.
9:10:30 I'm not opposed to the tax at all.
9:10:32 I can live with the tax.
9:10:35 I know the improvements need to be made, but the
9:10:37 way it's being assessed I don't think is fair.
9:10:39 I think it needs to be looked at again, and I
9:10:42 think that this hearing should have been held --
9:10:44 should have been -- the schools were let out
9:10:45 today.
9:10:47 There's no school tomorrow.
9:10:49 I thought you were closed over here in City
9:10:52 Council, I mean, in the -- in the City, so there's
9:10:55 a lot -- I mean, we got a lot of people here
9:10:57 tonight for and against, but how many people would
9:10:59 have been here tonight if they knew this thing was
9:11:01 going on?
9:11:04 The only thing I've got to say is I just cannot
9:11:09 believe that we could pick a more unfair way to
9:11:10 assess.
9:11:12 I don't have a problem with being taxed, but I
9:11:14 think it ought to be fairly to everyone, not just
9:11:17 the way it's been set up on this thing.
9:11:19 It was very, very misleading, and I still don't
9:11:22 understand how it's being assessed, and I know we
9:11:25 need the -- the streets need to be straightened up
9:11:28 and there's a lot of things that need to be done,
9:11:31 but we have to find a fairer way to assess it in
9:11:31 my opinion.
9:11:32 Thank you.
9:11:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
9:11:35 Next, please.
9:11:36 >> Good evening.
9:11:40 Patricia Mall, 4104 Lynn Avenue.
9:11:43 I've been listening, and I wonder the people that
9:11:46 are for this -- it sounds to me like they think
9:11:49 that we have all these shovel-ready projects that
9:11:52 are going to start tomorrow if you all vote
9:11:56 tonight, and from what I understood, the first --
9:11:58 the first thing to be done is not going to be --
9:12:01 they don't even think they'll start for three
9:12:06 years and that it'll take ten or 12 years to do
9:12:09 everything, and so it seems to me that we could
9:12:15 find the money along the way rather than pay --
9:12:18 what was the amount? -- 100 and whatever million
9:12:19 dollars in interest?
9:12:22 I don't mind interest when I'm receiving it, but I
9:12:24 don't really like to pay it.
9:12:24 [Laughter]
9:12:25 Thank you.
9:12:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, ma'am.
9:12:28 Next, please.
9:12:33 >> Hello.
9:12:36 Alan Kahana, 320 Blanca.
9:12:38 I've lived in Tampa basically all my life.
9:12:41 I was looking around and thinking the room would
9:12:44 be more full, but as Joe said, I think as I drove
9:12:46 in from St. Pete and the wind was blowing 50 knots
9:12:50 tonight that I was sure this was not going to
9:12:52 happen until I got a call from Joe Capitano, you
9:12:54 need to get over here now.
9:12:56 So I think really, the vote should be delayed.
9:12:58 It should not be voted on tonight.
9:12:59 It's really unfair for the citizens in the
9:13:02 community, some of which don't actually live every
9:13:03 day in the City of Tampa.
9:13:08 With that, no one, I don't believe I heard in this
9:13:10 room, is against improvement.
9:13:13 Everybody wants improvements to our roadways and
9:13:14 to our storm sewer system.
9:13:16 The issue is methodology, and it's a serious
9:13:17 issue.
9:13:19 We've heard a lot of examples of how the
9:13:22 methodology and the calculation of mitigation is
9:13:25 just simply wrong, and that's what we need to look
9:13:25 at.
9:13:29 So please, if you have to vote tonight, vote no.
9:13:32 Otherwise, please delay this vote.
9:13:34 Let's listen to more people from the City of
9:13:34 Tampa.
9:13:35 Give them a chance.
9:13:39 Don't expect them to come out in a hurricane that
9:13:40 blessed us.
9:13:42 You know, nothing -- not that I'm not of concern
9:13:45 for those of our neighbors who are in north
9:13:48 Florida who are being hit, you know, could not
9:13:51 come out tonight, would not take that risk.
9:13:51 That's unreasonable.
9:13:54 Anyway, again, if you have to vote tonight, vote
9:13:54 no.
9:13:55 Otherwise, please continue it.
9:13:59 Let's hear a little bit more, let's revisit this
9:14:01 question of the methodology that creates fairness,
9:14:02 not inequality.
9:14:02 Thank you.
9:14:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
9:14:05 Next, please.
9:14:20 >> My name is Joseph Philipp, District 4, 5011
9:14:23 West Spring Lake Drive.
9:14:30 I would urge -- I agree with Mr. Kahana and with
9:14:31 Mr. Capitano.
9:14:36 This is too important of an issue to vote anytime
9:14:37 soon.
9:14:44 I know my mother told me stay out of the rain, so
9:14:47 you can't prevent it.
9:14:51 I would like to also say I'm against this
9:14:55 proposal.
9:15:02 In order to improve this city from stormwater, you
9:15:05 would have to reengineer the geography that God
9:15:06 made.
9:15:09 It's always going to flood at Dale Mabry and
9:15:12 Henderson, no matter what improvements is made --
9:15:14 are made, excuse me.
9:15:17 And there's no proof that this money will ensure
9:15:21 that there won't be any floods.
9:15:26 I can tell you that a reason for this flooding is
9:15:30 when there is a high tide and a west wind on my
9:15:33 side of the peninsula, no matter how much
9:15:36 improvement you make, the high tide is still going
9:15:39 to block, you know, any draining water.
9:15:47 Also, we just went through a -- a -- we dredged
9:15:48 the canals.
9:15:51 We dredged the canals for the drainage.
9:15:53 That should make a lot of difference in the next
9:15:57 few years.
9:16:02 And we were not charged an assessment.
9:16:06 There are many people in Tampa, especially south
9:16:12 of Gandy and in West Tampa that are elderly and
9:16:15 they are on fixed incomes and their homeowners,
9:16:18 and I believe it would hurt them little by little
9:16:26 as the assessment increases.
9:16:29 People come from all over the City and the county
9:16:33 to visit businesses in South Tampa and other
9:16:37 areas, and it affects them as well, and it would
9:16:40 be more fair and equitable to all concerned to
9:16:47 spread this assessment over the whole city or the
9:16:49 county.
9:16:54 Floating a large bond like this is probably going
9:16:58 to cost $500,000 to a million dollars in fees,
9:17:04 lawyers, brokerages, underwriting that would pay
9:17:08 for it, and I think each substation should be
9:17:10 improved one by one instead of floating a giant
9:17:14 bond with debt, take it out of general funds, and
9:17:16 make improvements one by one.
9:17:19 Half a penny sales tax was supposed to pay for all
9:17:19 this.
9:17:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, sir.
9:17:21 >> God bless you.
9:17:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Appreciate it.
9:17:23 One last time.
9:17:25 Anyone else in the audience who would like to
9:17:27 speak at this time that has not spoken?
9:17:30 Okay.
9:17:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move approval.
9:17:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Well, I don't know if there's going
9:17:35 to be any more discussion or --
9:17:37 >> She spoke.
9:17:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was going to say -- you already
9:17:40 spoke, ma'am.
9:17:41 >> I have a question.
9:17:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ma'am, no.
9:17:45 Any discussion from Council before we move
9:17:48 forward, any questions, comments at all?
9:17:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You want us to debate it now?
9:17:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I would assume that would be the
9:17:53 next thing, if you wanted to.
9:17:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll speak on it.
9:17:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You want to have the floor, it's
9:17:57 your floor.
9:17:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very
9:17:59 much.
9:18:02 Like I said, I want you all to leave as friends no
9:18:02 matter what.
9:18:06 The City's principal debt right now is about 700
9:18:08 million, and correct me any time that I'm wrong,
9:18:08 please.
9:18:10 I've been corrected before many times.
9:18:11 That's without the interest.
9:18:14 So if you add the interest, it's going to be over
9:18:16 a billion-two, a billion-three maybe.
9:18:21 What we're doing today is more than 25% of the
9:18:24 total debt of the City of Tampa, and I'm not
9:18:25 against that.
9:18:28 Everybody has some debt.
9:18:31 Streets and roadways generate a very large portion
9:18:33 of stormwater runoff.
9:18:35 When you look at that and possibly there's no
9:18:40 remedy -- tax on gas, but we could ask the
9:18:45 Legislature to give us that right and tax another
9:18:49 system so that you pay as you go.
9:18:52 Keeping the City drains clean and free of debris
9:18:57 is very important, yet we, the City, and
9:19:00 individuals and corporations, you see them all the
9:19:04 time blowing everything into the storm drainage,
9:19:08 half a bumper falls and goes into the storm
9:19:08 drainage.
9:19:11 I have not seen in all my years of service, one
9:19:14 individual, one get charged with a ticket, and I'm
9:19:15 sure that code enforcement and police officers
9:19:19 have seen this all around at every time -- every
9:19:21 day it happens in the City of Tampa.
9:19:24 It costs us millions of dollars to process that at
9:19:27 the Howard Curren plant if it gets there, and it
9:19:29 clogs up our system.
9:19:34 Nobody talks about that.
9:19:36 The service streets that are prone to flooding
9:19:39 should be clearly marked.
9:19:42 We don't have many signs on an ongoing basis that
9:19:46 say that this is a flood zone, when it rains,
9:19:47 please use another way.
9:19:48 It's not done at all.
9:19:55 But most important is this: No one, except God
9:19:58 maybe, when the volume of water in the bay rises
9:20:04 and it covers a drain pipe, that drain, that's the
9:20:07 only system we have where it goes out, we don't
9:20:14 send floodwaters out to a 2,000-acre drainage
9:20:17 where it drains naturally, we don't do that, so
9:20:21 it's the volume of water going out and the volume
9:20:25 of water coming in, they have a contact and a hit,
9:20:29 no matter what size pipe, whether it's a 28, 34,
9:20:33 36, 38 -- the volume is greater going out, but
9:20:36 when it hits that -- someone's shaking his head,
9:20:37 maybe I'm wrong.
9:20:42 When that flood -- when that comes up to flood
9:20:45 levels or higher, if that storm would have been
9:20:49 100 miles on this side, none of us would be here
9:20:55 today, we'd all be flooded, no matter what size
9:20:58 pipe you have because it rises up, and the good
9:21:03 people that live in this city deserve a better
9:21:04 plan than this for some of its problems.
9:21:08 I have not voted against a tax other than a couple
9:21:13 of them, the CIT was going to build the stadium
9:21:16 for the wealthiest people in the world, all of
9:21:19 them, not just one stadium, and recently the
9:21:21 ferry.
9:21:24 I don't supplement a dream when I know the dream
9:21:27 costs us money, and it ain't -- it ain't going to
9:21:28 solve the problem.
9:21:32 This will not solve the problem, gain deed.
9:21:34 There's no insurance -- guaranteed.
9:21:36 There's no insurance policy that Lloyd's of London
9:21:39 will sell you or us that we're guaranteed we won't
9:21:43 flood if we spend $251 million because of rising
9:21:48 sea levels and many of the nature things.
9:21:51 If you have a storm and that tide comes up, I
9:21:54 don't care who we are, how much money you spend,
9:21:56 you could spend a billion and a half dollars, and
9:22:00 it will not solve this problem 100%.
9:22:06 Would it alleviate some, yes, but earlier I said I
9:22:08 believe I spent a dollar for a dollar value.
9:22:14 I'm not getting that return for all the taxpayers.
9:22:18 I had voted for the stormwater assessment in 2002,
9:22:22 I voted for the PODs, ponds, outfalls, and ditches
9:22:27 just recently, and that has helped.
9:22:30 This will not solve the problem by my estimates.
9:22:34 I don't have a professional person telling me, I
9:22:36 don't have professionals telling me on the staff,
9:22:41 I don't have a staff, I have one person.
9:22:42 She does a wonderful job.
9:22:46 I just -- the methodology of this is not in the
9:22:48 right way.
9:22:51 Maybe there will be different ways.
9:22:53 Maybe it will be a combination of many things,
9:22:58 increase in the millage rate, which I don't like
9:23:01 to do, but I'm willing to look at it, with some
9:23:04 other sources you can fund this.
9:23:07 That way we do that, you get a much better return
9:23:09 for your money.
9:23:13 This is not a cure-all for everything.
9:23:17 This will not solve the problem if you have a
9:23:21 hurricane or an unnamed storm that comes up this
9:23:21 bay.
9:23:23 It is impossible to assure that this money spent
9:23:25 will solve this problem.
9:23:28 You have to have multifacets to put that water
9:23:32 source somewhere else because if the bay comes up,
9:23:37 what are we going to do with the stormwater, come
9:23:38 back where it came from?
9:23:42 No one said that or at least I didn't hear it if
9:23:43 they did.
9:23:45 I've heard people talk about values and different
9:23:47 things, and I appreciate that.
9:23:50 I heard people say that not everybody's getting
9:23:52 taxed, and they're right.
9:23:56 So what are we supposed to do then, vote for
9:23:59 something that, in my judgment, has some areas of
9:24:02 improvements, yet we're not accepting them?
9:24:03 That's all, Mr. Chairman.
9:24:04 Thank you.
9:24:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
9:24:06 Mr. Cohen.
9:24:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, I agree with a great deal of
9:24:12 what Councilman Miranda just said.
9:24:13 I particularly agree with his statement that this
9:24:16 is not going to solve the problem because it isn't
9:24:19 going to solve it, but it will -- but where I
9:24:22 disagree is that -- or where I maybe have a nuance
9:24:25 difference is I think it will help, and the fact
9:24:28 of the matter is that this isn't going to help in
9:24:31 a named storm or a numbered storm or the type of a
9:24:34 storm that brings a huge storm surge into this
9:24:37 community, but every afternoon during the summer
9:24:40 when it rains, a huge part of our city becomes
9:24:43 impassable and people cannot get to work, they
9:24:46 cannot pick up their children from school, first
9:24:48 responders cannot get through, and the amount of
9:24:51 money that is lost due to lost productivity,
9:24:54 property damage, vehicle damage is rising every
9:24:57 single year.
9:24:59 The comments that were made by the public were
9:25:02 exhaustive, and I don't think it's necessary to go
9:25:04 over everything that was said, but I do want to
9:25:10 address one issue that came up repeatedly, and
9:25:12 that is the issue of raising the millage or
9:25:14 somehow doing this through a property tax
9:25:15 increase.
9:25:19 If we were to go that route, there are two major
9:25:20 problems.
9:25:23 The first is that you cannot bond it because any
9:25:26 year the City Council can come back and adjust it,
9:25:29 so there's absolutely no way to guarantee the
9:25:32 revenue stream and have any ability to borrow
9:25:34 against it.
9:25:36 The second thing, which really flows from the
9:25:39 first, is that there's absolutely no guarantee
9:25:42 from year to year that any given City Council is
9:25:44 going to be willing to devote the money to solving
9:25:48 this problem, so you can't depend on having the
9:25:50 pot of money that you need at the end of the day
9:25:53 to fix some of these major projects.
9:25:57 It would -- it would be a feat of monumental
9:26:00 political courage to raise the millage in order to
9:26:03 pay for this, but it wouldn't actually get us
9:26:05 anywhere because we'd never be able to guarantee
9:26:08 from one year to the next that the money would
9:26:10 still be there, and that is the reason that we
9:26:14 have to do an assessment of this type, so, you
9:26:18 know, I understand that no particular program is
9:26:21 going to be perfect, and I will tell you there are
9:26:24 some things as we move down the road that I would
9:26:27 like to look at about this, particularly things
9:26:29 that we might be able to control through general
9:26:34 revenue, but this problem we cannot continue to
9:26:35 defer and delay.
9:26:37 We have to address it.
9:26:39 It's getting to the point where it is compromising
9:26:43 both the economic viability and the physical
9:26:46 health of the citizens of this city, and with all
9:26:48 due respect to everyone that spoke about the fact
9:26:53 that it is a citywide problem -- and it is -- I
9:26:55 can tell you that in certain areas of the city, if
9:26:58 we do not do something about it, people's houses
9:27:01 and possessions are literally going to start to be
9:27:02 washed away.
9:27:05 They are -- they are calling me by the droves,
9:27:09 showing me pictures of what happens on an average
9:27:12 afternoon in August or September, and at some
9:27:15 point we have got to start dealing with this
9:27:15 problem.
9:27:17 I think that point has come.
9:27:19 We've talked about it long enough, and I think we
9:27:21 ought to vote for it.
9:27:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
9:27:23 Ms. Montelione.
9:27:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
9:27:28 I think everyone knows I agree with Mr. Cohen on
9:27:32 this, and I'd like to ask a couple of questions of
9:27:35 staff, if you -- if you would.
9:27:39 A while back, I think it was the first time, maybe
9:27:42 the second time that we've discussed this, I was
9:27:46 given a chart that lays out what different
9:27:52 municipalities and different counties charge, and
9:27:57 it was compiled by an association --
9:27:59 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes, the Florida Stormwater
9:28:00 Association.
9:28:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
9:28:05 So there's different methodologies in here, but
9:28:09 just looking over this, we are very close to the
9:28:15 bottom of what we charge, what our rates are.
9:28:20 I mean, somebody brought up St. Petersburg and
9:28:21 Pinellas County.
9:28:23 Well, Pinellas County has a lot of municipalities
9:28:30 within it, and St. Petersburg is only one, but in
9:28:33 St. Petersburg, the number that is on here is
9:28:41 $6.84, where our number's $3.
9:28:44 In St. Pete Beach, which now they're going to pay
9:28:47 twice because they're going to pay Pinellas County
9:28:52 and they're going to pay the City's, it's $47.09 a
9:28:53 year.
9:28:55 In Sarasota it's $7.55.
9:28:59 Those are monthly figures, I'm sure.
9:29:04 But in Polk County it's .1 mill, so they have a
9:29:05 millage for it.
9:29:08 What's not included here is, you know, if these
9:29:11 numbers are supplemented by general fund budget or
9:29:16 by other means, other CIT funds, it's not
9:29:19 comprehensive, but of all of the counties and
9:29:22 cities that are here from Clairmont to Winter
9:29:25 Springs, we fall in the bottom, and I think if you
9:29:29 look at all the cities and counties that are here,
9:29:32 we shouldn't be at the bottom.
9:29:35 In a lot of -- a lot of places, the State of
9:29:37 Florida is in the bottom tier, and we all cringe
9:29:43 when we hear, oh, no, another where Florida is in
9:29:43 the bottom.
9:29:45 Well, that's not a place I want to be because it's
9:29:50 -- we're not taking care of our city.
9:29:55 Some of the folks who spoke tonight mentioned what
9:29:59 happens when they don't pay the assessment and
9:30:01 their house gets foreclosed on.
9:30:02 Is that possible?
9:30:04 >>BRAD BAIRD: You want to take that, Jan?
9:30:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Jan.
9:30:08 >>BRAD BAIRD: Jan is better equipped to take that
9:30:08 one.
9:30:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's a legal question.
9:30:13 >>JAN McLEAN: Jan McLean, City Attorney.
9:30:15 If the assessment is not paid, a lien is put on
9:30:20 the house, but it can be sold for a tax
9:30:21 certificate.
9:30:23 It's not foreclosed upon.
9:30:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
9:30:27 So someone, their house or property would not be
9:30:30 foreclosed on and taken away from them for
9:30:32 nonpayment of the assessment?
9:30:35 >>JAN McLEAN: No, they sell the tax certificate
9:30:36 for the assessment.
9:30:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: They sell the tax certificate,
9:30:41 somebody redeems the tax certificate, and after a
9:30:43 certain amount of time, tax certificates, what
9:30:49 happens to those?
9:30:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: This is not a group discussion.
9:30:53 Ms. McLean.
9:30:55 >> I thought it was a group question.
9:30:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, it was a question to
9:30:59 Ms. McLean.
9:31:02 With all due respect, I don't think staff heckled
9:31:04 any of you while you were speaking.
9:31:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Go ahead, please.
9:31:07 >>JAN McLEAN: After a certain length of time, it
9:31:10 can be -- the property can be foreclosed on.
9:31:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
9:31:15 Is there any way we can prevent that from
9:31:16 happening?
9:31:23 That if -- if certificates are sold -- in certain
9:31:25 cases where Mr. Reddick and I are concerned about
9:31:28 people who are of lower income, can the City
9:31:30 redeem those certificates and prevent the house
9:31:32 from being foreclosed?
9:31:34 >>JAN McLEAN: I've not heard of that being done.
9:31:36 I would say no.
9:31:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Because I'm getting at some
9:31:40 kind of a safety net.
9:31:41 >>JAN McLEAN: Right, I hear you.
9:31:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
9:31:48 The other concern that I had was to address the
9:31:48 mold situation.
9:31:52 I think I've asked these questions before for
9:32:00 people who have -- we -- there's 100% exemption
9:32:03 for folks in certain parts of the city, New Tampa
9:32:06 is one of them because they have their own
9:32:08 stormwater system and they don't discharge into
9:32:10 the City's stormwater system.
9:32:15 Well, property's like Mr. Moll's where he's
9:32:17 addressing his stormwater issue on his own
9:32:20 property and he's not discharging, is there an
9:32:23 application process so that he could avail himself
9:32:25 of that exemption?
9:32:28 >>JAN McLEAN: Yes, there is an application process
9:32:30 that anybody could avail themselves of that
9:32:33 Mitigation Credit Policy.
9:32:35 I do believe that Mr. Moll.
9:32:41 It's property was evaluated and determined that
9:32:43 there was discharge to the City's system.
9:32:46 He has multiple properties, but that's my
9:32:46 understanding.
9:32:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I guess the house that we
9:32:53 were being shown pictures of, the -- his primary
9:32:54 residence.
9:33:01 And it -- there wasn't any credit at all or --
9:33:05 because what Ms. Grimes -- and we know there's
9:33:09 10%, there's zero, or there's 100%.
9:33:12 >>JAN McLEAN: I'm not aware of what was determined
9:33:13 on his property.
9:33:16 From the individual property, Mr. Moll had the
9:33:19 letter from the City indicating what could be
9:33:21 available to him or not.
9:33:24 Everyone is able to apply for the mitigation
9:33:25 credit.
9:33:29 Whether they would be qualified or not, that's
9:33:31 determined on a individual property basis.
9:33:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
9:33:41 The other question -- I don't know if this may be
9:33:45 -- if Ms. Little has a response to this, but we
9:33:50 talked a little bit about economic impact.
9:33:53 Was that -- there was something else that one of
9:33:55 the other speakers this evening brought up, I
9:34:00 think more than one other speaker.
9:34:03 Is anybody due an economic impact assessment for
9:34:06 not addressing the stormwater, so I think
9:34:08 somebody -- one of the gentlemen had mentioned
9:34:14 days missed from work, businesses -- I think
9:34:18 Ms. Gorman talked about not being able to open
9:34:21 their business or making costly repairs.
9:34:24 Is there some economic impact assessment that was
9:34:26 done?
9:34:27 >>SONYA LITTLE: Those things were taken into
9:34:31 consideration, Councilwoman, generally, but a
9:34:33 full-blown feasibility study or analysis was not
9:34:35 conducted as far as I'm aware of.
9:34:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's unfortunate.
9:34:43 And I'm just making notes from when people were
9:34:47 speaking, and so they -- they aren't necessarily
9:34:50 in order, but one of the last comments I think was
9:34:54 made about New Tampa and people driving on our
9:34:55 roads.
9:34:58 Well, a lot of people who live in New Tampa work
9:35:01 in New Tampa, and their children go to school in
9:35:04 New Tampa, so I hear a lot of times when I say,
9:35:08 how come nobody from New Tampa shows up downtown
9:35:10 to speak, and they're like, we don't want to come
9:35:12 all the way downtown.
9:35:15 They hardly ever go -- we laugh about people who
9:35:17 don't go north of Kennedy.
9:35:20 You know, there's a lot of people in New Tampa who
9:35:24 don't go west of Bruce B. Downs or Fowler Avenue,
9:35:28 so I wouldn't assume that -- that the folks who
9:35:33 live in New Tampa are coming to South Tampa or
9:35:36 coming downtown on a regular basis, so those are
9:35:39 just some of the thoughts that I had as I was
9:35:42 making notes when people were speaking.
9:35:44 >>SONYA LITTLE: Councilwoman, could I make just
9:35:46 one clarification, and I'll ask --
9:35:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Sure.
9:35:51 >>SONYA LITTLE: -- Ms. McLean to correct me if I'm
9:35:51 wrong.
9:35:53 I believe the service assessment is citywide.
9:35:55 Is that correct?
9:35:55 Citywide.
9:35:58 It's the improvement assessment that has the
9:36:05 improvement area that stops at Fowler and excludes
9:36:10 New Tampa and Harbour Island, but they do pay for
9:36:11 maintenance of the system.
9:36:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maintenance, but they wouldn't
9:36:15 be included in tonight --
9:36:17 >>SONYA LITTLE: Correct.
9:36:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: -- which is what someone was
9:36:20 making reference to.
9:36:22 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes.
9:36:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So, you know, weighing all of
9:36:28 these different things, you know, having someone
9:36:33 not pay the assessment for stormwater, I would
9:36:36 assume if they're not paying the assessment for
9:36:39 stormwater, they're probably also not paying their
9:36:41 regular property taxes either.
9:36:44 >>SONYA LITTLE: And I believe as far as payment is
9:36:47 concerned, you cannot just pay one.
9:36:51 I believe -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that
9:36:53 it's all or none for your tax bill.
9:36:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I'm getting nodding heads.
9:37:05 So although there is the extrapolated argument
9:37:09 that if someone doesn't pay the assessment, then
9:37:12 the tax certificates can be sold and their
9:37:15 property could be taken because there were tax
9:37:19 certificates sold for, I believe it's three years
9:37:22 in a row, but it wouldn't necessarily be because
9:37:24 they're not paying the assessment; they wouldn't
9:37:26 be paying the entire bill?
9:37:27 >>SONYA LITTLE: Exactly.
9:37:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the assessment on one
9:37:35 property tax bill for a small home, do you know
9:37:36 the number?
9:37:37 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes.
9:37:41 For the first year on a small home it would be
9:37:44 $27.44.
9:37:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the argument that someone
9:37:48 would lose their house because they didn't pay the
9:37:50 $27 --
9:37:53 >>SONYA LITTLE: And 44 cents.
9:37:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: -- and 44 cents would probably
9:37:58 be because they didn't pay the whole tax bill,
9:38:00 which would be more than just the assessment?
9:38:02 >>SONYA LITTLE: Yes, ma'am.
9:38:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So it is an extrapolated
9:38:06 argument that the assessment is going to put them
9:38:10 over the edge.
9:38:14 But I wanted to clarify that although they were
9:38:18 making a statement that is true, it -- it doesn't
9:38:26 seem to be, at least for me, a statement that is
9:38:30 necessarily how it would happen.
9:38:32 It would happen because they didn't pay their
9:38:35 property tax bill, not because they weren't paying
9:38:37 a $27 assessment.
9:38:38 >>SONYA LITTLE: Correct.
9:38:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
9:38:43 There were a lot of -- a lot of folks who spoke
9:38:47 very passionately tonight, including all of us who
9:38:53 spoke on this issue, and clarifying some of the
9:38:58 things that stuck out in my mind from some of the
9:39:05 statements that were made tonight, not because
9:39:10 he's a priest, but I think father Glen talked
9:39:14 about it, Sally B. talked about it earlier, that
9:39:23 this is a holistic system, and you can't treat one
9:39:25 part or one ailment without it affecting the
9:39:33 entire system, and if we're going to be a city
9:39:35 that takes care of its citizens, if we're going to
9:39:40 be a city that grows and prospers and is an
9:39:43 attractive place for people to live, we need to
9:39:47 take care of these problems, and the debt that
9:39:52 we're going into and the interest we're going to
9:39:59 accrue, I think someone also said tonight that
9:40:03 with prosperity comes the ability for us to pay
9:40:09 down those bonds, and haven't we done that before?
9:40:11 >>SONYA LITTLE: We quite frequently do that
9:40:13 whenever we have the opportunity, either interest
9:40:20 rates go down or there may be an opportunity to --
9:40:24 these bonds are always structured for the optimal
9:40:30 flexibility and to what we call call redeemed
9:40:34 prior to their 30-year maturity.
9:40:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So we often pay down our debts
9:40:42 whenever we can or we refinance when it makes
9:40:44 sense to do that, which seems to be what most
9:40:46 businesses do.
9:40:48 >>SONYA LITTLE: Correct.
9:40:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So if -- for those who say that
9:40:53 the City government should be run like a business,
9:40:54 that's what businesses do.
9:40:56 They refinance their debt when they have the
9:40:58 opportunity and they pay it down when they have
9:41:00 the opportunity to do that.
9:41:03 I think that these problems are only going to get
9:41:10 worse, as the infrastructure ages.
9:41:12 I think we fix one part of the system, put stress
9:41:14 on another part of the system.
9:41:16 I think that the interest rates, they're very low
9:41:19 now, so where do things go when they're very low,
9:41:21 they only go up.
9:41:22 >>SONYA LITTLE: Right.
9:41:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And a lot of the same reasons
9:41:29 that Mr. Cohen has already mentioned, I think this
9:41:32 is the right thing to do and I think this is the
9:41:34 right time to do it while the interest rates are
9:41:36 low, so thank you, Ms. Little.
9:41:37 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you.
9:41:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
9:41:40 Before I go to Mr. Miranda, anyone else want to
9:41:41 speak at this time?
9:41:42 I will be last.
9:41:43 I have not spoken.
9:41:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yeah.
9:41:49 One more time under the rules, and that's it.
9:41:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: [Off microphone]
9:41:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You spoke before, so you get
9:41:53 another time.
9:41:55 You could speak as much as you like, sir.
9:41:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: After you speak, I'm going to
9:42:00 call for the question so we can vote on this and
9:42:01 get out of here.
9:42:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: All right, sir.
9:42:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me say this, and I hope the
9:42:08 good father back there, the priest got the
9:42:12 approval to speak for his whole parishioners,
9:42:20 because if he wants to spend $10,000 of the
9:42:24 church's money, I feel good for him.
9:42:26 Let me say this, you know, what I've heard today
9:42:32 is from a lot of people who basically have no
9:42:36 problem with this assessment.
9:42:38 What they have a problem with is the formula that
9:42:43 was used to reach this -- these figures for the
9:42:48 assessment, and I think that's basically all we've
9:42:50 been hearing tonight, even from some of the
9:42:54 colleagues, some on the dais here, pertaining to
9:43:00 how we reach this point.
9:43:02 You know -- and I think the other portion when I
9:43:08 -- what I heard tonight is about fairness.
9:43:14 I understand that, you know, we asked the
9:43:18 nonprofits, for example, they're not being exempt,
9:43:20 they're having to pay this assessment, and we all
9:43:26 know how nonprofits have to go out and scrub just
9:43:30 to raise money, and especially small nonprofits,
9:43:34 and so it is that being fair to them, when you
9:43:37 have a multi-millionaire sitting over there with a
9:43:40 big yacht that's paying -- is going to pay less
9:43:42 than what those people are paying.
9:43:44 Is that fair to them?
9:43:49 The young lady who said she lives on 44th Street
9:43:56 and Highland Pines, is that fair to her to have
9:44:00 these people paying this additional cost, and is
9:44:03 it fair to these communities that have got these
9:44:07 retention ponds, and if the City was doing an
9:44:10 adequate job in cleaning out these drainage ponds,
9:44:12 we wouldn't be having the problems we're having
9:44:17 today, and I understand we passed this maintenance
9:44:20 assessment, but I will hope that fairness will be
9:44:22 carried out to those neighborhoods where there's
9:44:26 an abundance of retention ponds, that these places
9:44:31 are cleaned out, drained out, because if you -- if
9:44:34 you go in the ones that are in my neighborhood,
9:44:38 you will see -- like the young lady mentioned
9:44:42 about the retention pond in her area -- they're
9:44:44 overgrown, they act like they haven't been cleaned
9:44:47 out in years.
9:44:51 When we get a high -- high volume of rain, they
9:44:56 have a tendency to overrun into the street and no
9:44:59 one is out there cleaning those and keeping those
9:45:01 clean, the drainage clean.
9:45:02 Well, here's the problem.
9:45:05 The people are still paying taxes, and is that
9:45:07 fair to these people?
9:45:10 And so this whole thing to me comes down to
9:45:16 fairness, it comes down to -- yes, we've got a
9:45:22 serious problem, yes -- I haven't gotten no
9:45:24 pictures from no one showing me the flooded areas
9:45:27 because I guess in my neighborhood, they haven't
9:45:30 taken no pictures to send to me, so the people
9:45:33 down in South Tampa, I can understand, Mr. Cohen
9:45:36 because he represents the South Tampa district,
9:45:38 and that's where most of the problems are, so I
9:45:41 can understand you getting those pictures, but
9:45:43 nobody sends me those pictures, and I wish they
9:45:45 had because they'd realize that I have a boat just
9:45:47 like you have a boat.
9:45:48 [Laughter]
9:45:53 And I need to see those pictures, so just them
9:45:57 being postured to you and not the other six on the
9:45:59 Council, that's not fair, and that's what I'm
9:46:01 speaking about tonight, fairness.
9:46:06 We can do this, and we can do this in a more fair
9:46:08 and productive way than what we're doing now, and
9:46:12 when we got these many people that are going to be
9:46:14 hurt and particularly the nonprofit
9:46:19 organizations -- and I guess someone -- I think
9:46:21 Mr. Manteiga said something about everybody in the
9:46:29 county pays, and I don't see why -- whether they
9:46:31 pay for the drainage or not, I don't see why the
9:46:34 people in North Tampa or the people in Harbour
9:46:36 Island are exempt.
9:46:39 That doesn't make sense to me.
9:46:43 If you put that baseball stadium in my district in
9:46:48 the hoods, as I call them, they're going to come.
9:46:52 They're going to drive from the Harbour Bridge,
9:46:57 they're going to come from New Tampa and they're
9:46:58 coming through the hood to go to the baseball
9:46:59 game.
9:47:02 Now, should the hood pay all the expenses?
9:47:06 Is if they put that baseball team out on Nebraska
9:47:10 Avenue and 7th Avenue, should we burden the higher
9:47:12 responsibility for these people that are going to
9:47:13 travel?
9:47:15 And they probably are already coming into the
9:47:17 community because they're going to Ybor City for
9:47:21 entertainment and to wine and dine.
9:47:23 The same thing for people in North Tampa.
9:47:26 They're coming to Ybor City, they're going to wine
9:47:31 and dine, and so I don't believe they should be
9:47:34 exempt, and I particularly don't believe these
9:47:37 people that are nonprofits should be exempt, and
9:47:40 if I'm -- correct me if I'm wrong, I wrote
9:47:41 something down here.
9:47:43 Did they say 15,000 would be exempt?
9:47:46 Is that what I heard, 15,000?
9:47:47 Is that correct?
9:47:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Any of the staff who can answer
9:47:53 that question?
9:47:59 Why don't you get up here and ask -- ask him what
9:48:00 he's asking.
9:48:02 >>BRAD BAIRD: I believe that was -- was that
9:48:03 Camille that said that?
9:48:07 Camille, are you still on the line?
9:48:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: No, somebody mentioned 15 --
9:48:12 >>BRAD BAIRD: Oh, one of the citizens.
9:48:13 I'm sorry.
9:48:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: And I just wanted to --
9:48:18 >>BRAD BAIRD: I mean, that sounds about right.
9:48:22 I don't know there's 15,000, you know, exactly,
9:48:24 but it seems appropriate --
9:48:25 >> [Off microphone]
9:48:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
9:48:31 And what's the justification for those 15,000
9:48:35 being exempt outside of being Harbour Island or
9:48:37 North Tampa?
9:48:40 >>BRAD BAIRD: Their system does not discharge to
9:48:43 the City system.
9:48:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
9:48:49 >>BRAD BAIRD: And those improvements were paid for
9:48:50 by that community.
9:48:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
9:48:52 All right, Mr. Chairman.
9:48:52 Thank you.
9:48:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: All right.
9:48:55 Before I go forward, is there anyone else that
9:48:57 wants to speak?
9:49:00 Go ahead, Mr. Maniscalco.
9:49:02 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Before we take the vote --
9:49:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'm going to speak first and then
9:49:05 we're going to take the vote.
9:49:06 So go ahead and speak.
9:49:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: We know.
9:49:10 On something so monumental, and as big as this
9:49:13 issue is, we don't have a complete council, we're
9:49:16 missing one council person.
9:49:19 I know the weather may have been an issue for
9:49:21 people who would have wanted to come down here, so
9:49:23 I would hope that it would be considered that we
9:49:27 could possibly delay this to Wednesday evening
9:49:29 when we have another public hearing, of course
9:49:33 with closed public comment, or take the vote then
9:49:35 or next Thursday when we reconvene as well.
9:49:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We're going to go forward with --
9:49:40 we're not going to vote first.
9:49:42 I have not spoken yet, but I think I should speak
9:49:43 before him.
9:49:44 Are you done, sir?
9:49:45 >> Yes.
9:49:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Before you go, Mr. Miranda, if it's
9:49:50 okay, if you want to make a motion to continue it
9:49:51 after I speak --
9:49:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not going to make that
9:49:53 motion.
9:49:56 You can speak last, as always, the chairman.
9:49:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I thought you were going to call
9:49:58 the vote.
9:50:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I usually have two rounds.
9:50:01 This is my second round, that's it.
9:50:04 First of all, I don't know if this city has gone
9:50:08 and looked at -- asked for RFP for national and
9:50:11 international storm drainage from the Netherlands
9:50:14 to really tell us how to solve the problem.
9:50:15 I don't know if you've done that.
9:50:18 And I heard comments from the audience saying you
9:50:22 built buildings and no one cares where the water
9:50:24 runoff -- under the rules and regulation, we're
9:50:27 legislators, we're not administrators.
9:50:31 The rule says for at least 25 years, all
9:50:34 commercial and industrial properties that have
9:50:39 been zoned by this council, by law, should provide
9:50:42 stormwater retention on their properties, even
9:50:45 residential properties, with swales and things of
9:50:48 that nature; however, again, let me say this: I
9:50:52 don't know of one instant where somebody had a
9:50:55 swale, he sold a house or she sold a house, and
9:50:56 that person who bought it didn't like the swale
9:50:58 and he or she filled it up.
9:51:02 I can't tell you we even did one of them in all my
9:51:04 years of public service, never.
9:51:05 There's records of that.
9:51:07 Do we check and find out if that's still true from
9:51:10 the time it was zoned five years ago, ten years
9:51:15 ago, or two years ago?
9:51:17 That I know of we have a lot of computer systems,
9:51:23 but I don't know of one that's come to force.
9:51:26 People are edgy about taxes.
9:51:29 Like I said, I've supported most taxes in my
9:51:31 public service time.
9:51:35 We talked about a baseball stadium in secrecy,
9:51:36 that's $700 million.
9:51:39 You're going to pay for it, I'm going to pay for
9:51:39 it.
9:51:44 The CIT ends in 2026.
9:51:46 We already borrowed the money for the last five
9:51:46 years.
9:51:49 You've only got a five-year cycle left.
9:51:51 Every -- just about all the equipment of police,
9:51:54 fire, and other service areas, water and sewer,
9:51:56 monies come from there because we don't have
9:51:57 anyplace else.
9:52:00 Some of that CIT money from 2006 should have been
9:52:07 directed exactly for stormwater.
9:52:10 Rapid transit and transportation, most of the
9:52:12 calls that I get -- and I can't speak for the
9:52:17 other members -- is from people that are in
9:52:20 traffic jams, not because of water, because it's
9:52:21 just not moving.
9:52:24 We have so much traffic in this city that sooner
9:52:28 or later, if we don't have a system to move
9:52:32 between Tampa, St. Pete, and Clearwater and a
9:52:35 round circle or something, extending of something,
9:52:36 we're going to have a problem here.
9:52:39 Somebody's got to pay for all that, and it's going
9:52:42 to be us, and I'm not opposed to working in
9:52:44 solving that problem and paying for it.
9:52:46 I have yet to have an answer that this is going to
9:52:48 be 100% proof.
9:52:50 I don't have a company with national
9:52:53 responsibilities and international understanding
9:52:59 of flooding, like a company in Holland or
9:53:01 somewhere in that area that are under sea level,
9:53:04 the whole country is, and yet they live there very
9:53:05 well.
9:53:07 I don't know what it costs.
9:53:13 I don't know if it's $251 million or $2 billion to
9:53:14 solve this problem.
9:53:17 I'm just taking a shot in the dark and saying hope
9:53:17 it works.
9:53:19 I just don't deal in business that way.
9:53:22 All of you that are successful in businesses don't
9:53:25 deal that way either, so here's where I'm at.
9:53:26 What do I do?
9:53:31 If I vote yes, I solve some of the problem; if I
9:53:34 vote no, I don't solve no problems, but if I vote
9:53:36 yes and I solve some of the problems, do I solve
9:53:39 all of the problems for $251 million?
9:53:43 That's what I'm wrestling, and I appreciate the
9:53:48 passionate statement that Mr. Reddick made.
9:53:50 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I'm done with my
9:53:50 discussion.
9:53:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
9:53:54 I'm going to speak now and then we're going to
9:53:54 vote.
9:53:57 Before I go, Mr. Baird, if you could come up for a
9:53:57 quick question.
9:54:00 Some people were mentioning Derek Jeter, and we
9:54:01 know him as a great hitter.
9:54:04 I didn't know he was a great tax attorney or had a
9:54:06 great tax attorney that he's paying absolutely
9:54:08 nothing of any assessment, and I -- you know, it
9:54:09 was just thrown out there.
9:54:10 I haven't seen that.
9:54:12 I was looking through all my papers and stuff and
9:54:12 other things.
9:54:14 I don't know where that came from.
9:54:17 It may have came from the analysis of Ms. Campion
9:54:21 based on her idea of the way the formula, would,
9:54:23 but I'm not sure, and you may have had some
9:54:23 conversation.
9:54:26 Do you know anything about that in terms of what
9:54:28 she meant and some other folks meant when that was
9:54:28 mentioned?
9:54:29 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yeah.
9:54:33 He would pay, first of all, for a very large
9:54:35 residence.
9:54:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I heard he's got -- I haven't been
9:54:42 invited, but I know he's got a pretty big house.
9:54:45 >>BRAD BAIRD: And that's 230-plus dollars I think
9:54:47 for the year, so I think there was some confusion
9:54:53 for payment per square footage of impervious.
9:54:54 I think that's where that was.
9:54:57 I would like to make one other point on very large
9:55:00 residence that have a lot of impervious area.
9:55:02 They are required by city code to put in
9:55:05 facilities that will retain a significant amount
9:55:08 that -- you know, a five-year storm on their
9:55:12 property, which means all vaults or ponds if they
9:55:15 have more property, and those vaults are not
9:55:17 cheap.
9:55:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And that's based on the amount of
9:55:21 square footage that they're going to put in or the
9:55:24 amount of impervious surface --
9:55:25 >>BRAD BAIRD: Correct.
9:55:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Which one?
9:55:29 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, impervious.
9:55:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Impervious surface.
9:55:33 I wanted to ask that question because when a
9:55:36 future Hall of Famer is mentioned, I always like
9:55:38 to make sure the statistics are right, because
9:55:41 he's going to be in the Hall of Fame in about four
9:55:42 years.
9:55:44 In terms of, you know, some of the questions we
9:55:47 have gotten -- and I'm going to ask Ms. McLean to
9:55:50 come up, if I could.
9:55:53 Really, you're going to leave before we leave?
9:55:56 Come on up here, Ms. McLean, I've got a quick for
9:55:59 you, and this is something you and I have gone
9:56:02 around and around on for quite some time, and this
9:56:04 is the mitigation credits.
9:56:05 You know what I'm going to say.
9:56:07 The mitigation credits program that we have now is
9:56:08 unacceptable.
9:56:10 We have to come up with a better mitigation credit
9:56:11 program.
9:56:12 Now, answer this question for me.
9:56:16 We can go forward if we decide to pass this now,
9:56:20 we can pass a more comprehensive mitigation credit
9:56:23 program as we go forward; is that correct?
9:56:25 >>JAN McLEAN: Yes, sir.
9:56:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So there's no time frame or
9:56:29 anything else in terms of making sure we come up
9:56:32 with a much more sound mitigation credit formula
9:56:35 so that those people who want to put more money
9:56:36 into their property to retain the stormwater
9:56:40 that's on their property will have a reduced bill
9:56:43 because they're putting more money into it and
9:56:45 less of a burden on our system; correct?
9:56:47 >>JAN McLEAN: Potentially.
9:56:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
9:56:50 Now, I know that we've been talking back and forth
9:56:52 as to how we're going to do that, and I think that
9:56:54 there are lots of things that we can look at in
9:56:56 order to do that that we haven't looked at yet, so
9:56:58 that's one of the things that I want to make sure
9:57:02 that is going to be job one, whether or not this
9:57:05 gets passed, because to me, mitigation credits are
9:57:06 incredibly important.
9:57:10 Ms. Grimes, who is a very capable attorney, very
9:57:13 intelligent, and understands that, you know, when
9:57:17 -- and was around when the first service
9:57:21 assessments were put in place that having people
9:57:24 invest in their own properties makes the whole
9:57:26 system better, not just their properties, and
9:57:28 that's, to me, I think an incredibly important
9:57:30 thing, so that's going to be your charge no matter
9:57:31 what we do right now.
9:57:33 >>JAN McLEAN: Which we have already started.
9:57:36 At the direction of the Council, we are looking at
9:57:38 getting engineering studies and recommendations to
9:57:40 bring back to you on the first council meeting in
9:57:41 March.
9:57:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
9:57:42 Thank you.
9:57:43 Okay.
9:57:47 You know, I'm in agreement with Councilman
9:57:47 Miranda.
9:57:50 This is a very difficult decision.
9:57:54 This is not something that any of us want to say
9:57:57 it's a very simple, let's go ahead and go forward
9:57:59 and do it, it's not going to be a big problem.
9:58:00 It is a problem.
9:58:02 You know, there are problems with the way that we
9:58:04 have to go forward because we have to solve this
9:58:08 problem, and, you know, I'm a big movie buff, and
9:58:13 one of my favorite movies is "It's a Wonderful
9:58:16 Life," and if anybody's watched that film, there's
9:58:20 a scene in there in the 1930s where George Bailey,
9:58:23 who owns the savings and loan and it's built a lot
9:58:26 of homes in Bedford Falls, which is the city they
9:58:30 live in, he's leaving town on his honeymoon, and
9:58:33 as he's leaving he realizes there's a run on the
9:58:35 bank and a run on the savings and loan.
9:58:37 He has thousands of dollars, I think it's $4,000,
9:58:41 in his hand to go on his honeymoon, he's going to
9:58:43 go have a great time, he's never left Bedford
9:58:46 Falls because he's done so much for the community.
9:58:49 When he goes there, he has to force one of his
9:58:52 uncles to open up the doors, and he tells
9:58:54 everyone, please take what you need now because we
9:58:58 cannot survive unless we all put in together.
9:59:00 First man that comes up wants every dime that he
9:59:05 has out, every single dollar, and he's insistent,
9:59:06 give me my money!
9:59:10 And when he gives him the money, he goes, that's
9:59:11 -- I'm closing my account.
9:59:13 He goes, no, that's a loan.
9:59:16 I'm going to let you go ahead and have it as a
9:59:18 loan because I want your business, I still want
9:59:21 you to be here, and as they go along, at the end
9:59:23 of the day he's there with $2 of all that money.
9:59:26 Now, the reason I bring that up is during that
9:59:29 discussion, when everyone is running and everyone
9:59:32 is panicking and they said, we want our money, he
9:59:35 goes, your money is not here, your money is in the
9:59:38 Jones house, and Jones' house money is in the
9:59:41 Smith house and so on because he understood that a
9:59:46 savings and loan was based on common ownership,
9:59:50 common ownership among each other, and there's a
9:59:52 lot of -- and I will tell you, most of the people
9:59:55 that spoke up here want to solve this problem.
9:59:57 They're not being parochial, but we do have to
10:00:00 look at this communitywide and citywide.
10:00:03 It is shared sacrifice, there's no doubt about it.
10:00:06 I'm going to be paying, I think, in the higher end
10:00:10 of this assessment, and I'm not happy about it.
10:00:13 We all have to pay our taxes, all of us that are
10:00:16 homeowners at this dais have to pay it.
10:00:18 None of us like paying taxes.
10:00:22 I don't think any of us on Council like paying any
10:00:25 taxes, let alone this assessment, but there is a
10:00:27 fairness of improvements, the idea that we're
10:00:30 going to improve one section only and then pay as
10:00:32 you go is unfair to everyone else that has the
10:00:34 same kind of flooding issues in different places.
10:00:35 Is it as great?
10:00:35 No.
10:00:37 But people do have flooding in all parts of the
10:00:38 city.
10:00:41 If you go to a -- on a hard rain and you go up to
10:00:45 the Home Depot on the corner of Yukon and Florida,
10:00:47 it is flooded along Yukon, okay.
10:00:49 Those people are suffering just as bad as anyone
10:00:51 else that's in South Tampa that might have a
10:00:52 flooding issue.
10:00:53 Now, we don't see it.
10:00:54 It's not reported.
10:00:57 I've got to tell you most of the TV cameras only
10:01:00 end up in South Tampa.
10:01:02 They almost never go to North Tampa.
10:01:04 Why that is, I have no idea.
10:01:07 Maybe because most of the reporters live in South
10:01:07 Tampa.
10:01:08 I don't know.
10:01:11 So there's a fairness of improvements across the
10:01:11 City.
10:01:14 When you press on a balloon on one end, it pops
10:01:16 out somewhere else, and we cannot continually go
10:01:19 forward without trying to make these improvements.
10:01:22 The methodology has been discussed quite a bit.
10:01:24 There's a reason why we're using this methodology.
10:01:27 It's not because we pulled it out of the air.
10:01:29 It has to be legally defensible.
10:01:33 It has to be in some way fair based on the
10:01:35 impervious surface.
10:01:38 We have to do it in a way that the state law
10:01:39 allows us to do it.
10:01:42 Now, there's been some discussion about going to
10:01:46 the general revenue and going and having property
10:01:48 taxes raised.
10:01:50 That will be fine, except for one thing.
10:01:51 Most of the people who now think that there's
10:01:54 going to be a relief to them in terms of their
10:01:56 assessment will be very surprised on how much more
10:01:58 they're going to pay because of the way that we
10:02:01 would have to do it in terms of property taxes.
10:02:04 Now, I've looked at some of those numbers and some
10:02:09 of the ideas about using it, and I agree that if
10:02:11 you want to do it, everyone would understand it
10:02:15 for sure, but it is one of the tougher things to
10:02:17 do in government is to raise the millage.
10:02:19 It's very difficult, and I don't think it's going
10:02:23 to be fairer than the assessment that we have
10:02:23 going forward.
10:02:25 We still have the work on the mitigation credits,
10:02:26 and I think we will.
10:02:28 Hopefully we'll get something that is not only
10:02:32 fair to everyone else but is a leader in the rest
10:02:35 of the -- the state and maybe the country because
10:02:38 we are not doing a good enough job of that right
10:02:40 now, and it's not anyone's fault, it's just the
10:02:42 way that we've done it.
10:02:45 Now, in terms of, you know, what it means to --
10:02:47 for our city, you know, there's been a lot of
10:02:49 discussion about what it means economically.
10:02:51 You know, we haven't talked a lot about it.
10:02:53 There's a hurricane that is bearing down on
10:02:56 northern Florida right now, okay.
10:02:59 After that hurricane, which is only a category 1,
10:03:02 there's still going to be damage, there's going to
10:03:04 be an assessment of what happened in that area,
10:03:06 and someone's going to have to pay to repair all
10:03:06 that stuff.
10:03:09 There may be damages to the stormwater system for
10:03:11 all we know.
10:03:13 The thing is is that we have to build the City
10:03:14 together.
10:03:16 We have to come together to try and solve these
10:03:17 problems.
10:03:21 We can keep talking from now until the end of time
10:03:23 about methodology, and it's not going to solve the
10:03:24 problem.
10:03:27 And Mr. Miranda is correct, it will not solve 100%
10:03:28 of the correct.
10:03:36 If we threw 250 million plus 157 million for the
10:03:40 -- the --
10:03:42 >> [Off microphone]
10:03:45 >>MIKE SUAREZ: -- the interest, thank you, sir.
10:03:47 We're not going to solve everything.
10:03:49 You mentioned the Dutch.
10:03:52 The Dutch spent a lot of money, a lot of money,
10:04:00 and I guarantee you your hair would turn white
10:04:02 thinking about how much money in infrastructure
10:04:05 they spend in Holland.
10:04:07 We pay a pittance right now, most cities in
10:04:10 Florida, most cities in the United States.
10:04:12 This is a start, this is not the end, and we need
10:04:13 to go forward with this.
10:04:17 I'm going to vote in favor of this with the
10:04:19 understanding that the mitigation credits are
10:04:21 going to come forward and we're going to try to
10:04:23 figure out a way that those who want to spend
10:04:25 money on their own property are able to go
10:04:26 forward.
10:04:26 I'm done.
10:04:28 Who wants to make a motion to close the public
10:04:29 hearing?
10:04:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So moved.
10:04:31 >> Second.
10:04:33 >> Mr. Chairman, the resolution must be adopted
10:04:34 prior to --
10:04:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Within -- before we close the
10:04:37 meeting, correct?
10:04:37 All right.
10:04:38 Thank you, sir.
10:04:39 All right.
10:04:41 We have a substitute resolution on the table.
10:04:45 Who would like to move the substitute resolution.
10:04:47 >> Move the substitute resolution.
10:04:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
10:04:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We do not have to read it by title,
10:04:52 is that correct, Mr. Shelby?
10:04:55 We can just move it without reading by title,
10:04:55 correct?
10:04:58 We have a motion by Mr. Cohen, a second from
10:05:00 Ms. Montelione.
10:05:02 All in favor of that motion please indicate by
10:05:04 saying aye.
10:05:06 Any opposed?
10:05:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion carried with Capin
10:05:12 being absent and with Miranda and Reddick voting
10:05:12 no.
10:05:13 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you very much.
10:05:18 Thank you for attending our meeting.
10:05:19 >> [Off microphone]
10:05:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: It's a start.
10:05:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And hope that she weathers the
10:05:26 storm.
10:05:28 >> I'm on, and thank you.
10:05:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
10:05:30 I have a motion to receive and file from
10:05:33 Mr. Reddick, I have a second from Mr. Cohen.
10:05:35 All in favor of that motion please indicate by
10:05:35 saying aye.
10:05:38 Any opposed?
10:05:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to close.
10:05:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I will -- motion to close from
10:05:42 Mr. Reddick.
10:05:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
10:05:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: A second from Mr. Cohen.
10:05:48 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying
10:05:49 aye.
10:05:49 Any opposed?
10:05:50 All right.
10:05:52 Is there any information report, any other
10:05:52 business?
10:05:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
10:05:54 Everybody left.
10:05:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If not, we are adjourned.
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