Tampa City Council
Thursday, September 22, 2016
9:00 a.m. Workshops
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09:04:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Good morning and welcome to our September --
09:04:35 excuse me.
09:04:36 Good morning.
09:04:37 Welcome to our September 22nd session of City Council.
09:04:44 The chair yields to Councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:04:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It is my honor this morning to represent
09:04:49 the city in presenting Mr. Steve Michelini who has been
09:04:52 doing an outstanding job five terms for the six weeks that I
09:04:58 do it in and four weeks.
09:04:59 Steve does wonderful prayers.
09:05:04 Please rise for the prayer by Mr. Michelini and remain
09:05:08 standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:05:09 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Good morning.
09:05:12 Dear Lord, you gave us the laws to live by and yet we
09:05:18 struggle to abide by them.
09:05:20 The contract of laws with your people through the covenants,
09:05:24 you gave us that place for your people, and God of the holy
09:05:28 of holy, gave us the holy grail, the ultimate goal yet so
09:05:32 hard to reach.
09:05:33 You gave holy angels to look after us when we failed.
09:05:37 You gave us mercy, grace, strength, fortitude for your
09:05:42 divine power.
09:05:43 You have given us so many gifts and yet we struggle to live
09:05:46 in peace, to understand one another, to prosper in our own
09:05:48 right without inflicting harm on one another.
09:05:53 We ask that you provide us with your guiding light, your
09:05:57 shield of salvation. We raise up our voices through song
09:05:59 and prayer to you; we exalt every praise, every mercy, every
09:06:03 worship to you, Dear Lord, in your everlasting power and
09:06:07 glory.
09:06:07 We ask in your name that you show mercy and provide
09:06:11 protection and safe haven to all your people and in
09:06:13 particular the men and women of the Armed Forces, the fire
09:06:18 department, emergency responders, teachers and your faithful
09:06:21 elected officials, this mayor, City Council and staff.
09:06:24 We ask this in your holy name that we never forget to pray
09:06:28 and give thanks to you, almighty.
09:06:30 Amen.
09:06:31 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:41 >> Roll call.
09:06:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:06:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:06:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:06:54 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: Here.
09:07:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
09:07:02 We are going to begin this morning with our ceremonial
09:07:04 activity.
09:07:05 Again the chair yields to Councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:07:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, honorable chairman Cohen and
09:07:22 members of Tampa City Council.
09:07:22 It's my pleasure to be here to make a commendation
09:07:25 presentation by City Council to the Police Officer of the
09:07:26 Month, and the Firefighter of the Quarter.
09:07:30 When we have a fire, when we have an emergency in the house
09:07:44 or neighborhood, the fire rescue comes, they do an
09:07:47 outstanding job.
09:07:48 When we need police protection, all of these divisions are
09:07:52 there 24-7, 365.
09:07:55 I don't know where else in America you can get better
09:07:58 service than here in the City of Tampa.
09:07:59 I'm honored to be here, Mr. Chairman, to make a presentation
09:08:03 on behalf of the city.
09:08:04 But before I do that, I want to have chief Brian Dugan to be
09:08:12 here to make the presentation on behalf of the officer.
09:08:16 >> Good morning, council.
09:08:18 Bryan Dugan, assistant chief of police.
09:08:21 Today we are here for Corporal Mike Victor, as Councilman
09:08:25 Miranda said.
09:08:26 He has been employed by did police department for 27 years,
09:08:30 has been assigned to the criminal intelligence bureau.
09:08:36 It requires him to have routinely arrange his schedule and
09:08:40 just to the make sure that the mayor is able to get around
09:08:42 town safely.
09:08:43 Mike also conduct investigations related to the adult
09:08:47 entertainment industry, overseeing that the establishments
09:08:49 throughout the city, and ensure they remain in compliance
09:08:53 with Tampa laws, keep the uniform districts appraised of
09:08:58 issues that come to light and coordinate operation was
09:09:01 various components throughout the department to work with
09:09:04 CIB to address these issues.
09:09:07 Mike is a board member with the local crime stoppers chapter
09:09:10 and a member of the FBI joint terrorism task force.
09:09:14 Mike has been a member of the FBI's human trafficking task
09:09:16 force since its inception, in 2008.
09:09:21 He has facilitated an excellent relationship with the FBI,
09:09:25 and together they are proactively searching for and
09:09:29 recovering victims in these investigations of those who
09:09:33 avoid them.
09:09:34 In addition to recovering approximately 25 juveniles a year
09:09:37 in the Tampa area, the task force provides presentations to
09:09:40 the community organizations to promote awareness, and work
09:09:45 closely with nongovernmental organizations to find services
09:09:48 for those victims.
09:09:49 Just yesterday, Mike was involved in a presentation with
09:09:52 members of leadership Tampa talking about the human
09:09:54 trafficking issues that we have in our town and in our
09:09:58 state.
09:09:59 He has been instrumental in obtaining lengthy federal prison
09:10:03 sentences for several defendants and was recently recognized
09:10:06 for his work in this area by Governor Scott and attorney
09:10:08 general Pam Bondi.
09:10:10 Mike has assisted with several key investigations to include
09:10:14 assisting police department in Indiana with a murder for
09:10:17 hire case involving a suspect that lived in Tampa.
09:10:21 He worked with detectives from Indiana and our local state
09:10:24 attorney's office to conduct search warrants for that
09:10:28 residence.
09:10:29 He prepared an operational plan and device add ruse to
09:10:31 safely execute that warrant.
09:10:34 The evidence he recovered was paramount in the case in
09:10:37 Indiana.
09:10:38 He also assisted the sunny isles beach police department
09:10:43 with human trafficking conveniently in Tampa.
09:10:46 He interviewed the victims which resulted in a positive
09:10:49 identification of two suspects in south Florida.
09:10:53 Sunny isles beach department was then able to obtain a
09:10:57 warrant for that person's arrest.
09:11:00 In recognizing his professionalism, unwavering dedication to
09:11:04 duty, and outstanding work ethics, Corporal Mike Victor has
09:11:10 been selected as Officer of the Month for September 2016.
09:11:21 >> I'm where Vinny Gericitano of the PBA.
09:11:32 Joining me is Gene Haines of the Tampa PBA.
09:11:40 Mike, I want to thank you for doing a good job in
09:11:43 representing the PBA, being a member.
09:11:46 I want to present with you a PBA watch.
09:11:48 >> Dan Mathis, Jr., chief of security for the Straz Center.
09:12:00 It's a special privilege to recognize someone I had an
09:12:05 opportunity to work with in my capacity as chief of
09:12:08 security.
09:12:08 Mike has opened the line of communication between myself and
09:12:12 him when he's bringing the mayor to events at the Straz
09:12:15 Center.
09:12:16 He's always available and accommodating.
09:12:19 We are also accommodating for his needs.
09:12:21 He can reach out to me and I can reach out to him, and that
09:12:24 strengthens the bond between the Straz Center and the
09:12:27 detail.
09:12:27 And so it's my honor and privilege to invite you.
09:12:35 There's a backstage disclaimer.
09:12:37 You always come backstage but this time you can't.
09:12:41 (Laughter)
09:12:44 Tickets for you this weekend for you and yours to come
09:12:48 enjoy.
09:12:49 Thanks again.
09:12:50 Nice job.
09:12:51 >> Joe Durkin on behalf of Bright House networks.
09:12:59 It's a pleasure to present the Officer of the Month with one
09:13:02 month of Bright House services complimentary.
09:13:07 It's a personal honor that we go back a long time ago when
09:13:12 he first came on the job and I had the pleasure of riding
09:13:15 with him.
09:13:16 Great job you did.
09:13:20 >> Thank you.
09:13:24 >> Jim Carson, Bill Currie Ford.
09:13:32 We see many officers come through our dealership day after
09:13:35 day.
09:13:35 This month you stood out.
09:13:37 On behalf of the Currie family and myself I would like to
09:13:41 present you with a brand new customized Mustang.
09:13:44 >> Very nice.
09:13:48 Thank you.
09:13:49 >> Stepp's towing.
09:13:57 On behalf of Stepps towing and transport and the Stepp's
09:14:02 family I would like to present with you the use of the
09:14:05 corporate limousine.
09:14:07 And we appreciate everything you do.
09:14:08 So thank you very much.
09:14:10 >> Thank you.
09:14:15 >> Good morning.
09:14:21 On behalf of the Doubletree Airport Westshore we would like
09:14:23 to present you with a weekend stay at our property to be
09:14:29 utilized at any time, going to the Bucs game or give me a
09:14:35 call and give me a heads up.
09:14:37 >> Michael Kilgore with the Gonzmart family of restaurants,
09:14:49 a gift card to the Columbia, and Goody Goody's has been
09:14:57 around for 29 days.
09:14:59 >> Busch Gardens.
09:15:07 We thank you so much for your service.
09:15:08 You are a brave man and that resumé, that really
09:15:14 demonstrates it.
09:15:15 I hope maybe you are brave enough to ride the Fury or come
09:15:20 out to college green, but if there's anything else we can
09:15:22 do, please don't hesitate to ask.
09:15:25 We thank you and all the police officers of Tampa for the
09:15:29 good work you do to help all of us.
09:15:32 Thank you so much.
09:15:32 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of a couple of
09:15:43 different institutes that would like to recognize you, and
09:15:46 the first one is prestige photography, and they are going to
09:15:49 take your picture but it won't be a mug shot.
09:15:52 Is that okay?
09:15:54 You and your family request have your portraits taken there,
09:15:57 and they will be happy to accommodate you.
09:15:59 On behalf of CICCIO's restaurant group, breakfast, lunch or
09:16:05 dinner.
09:16:06 On behalf of Byblos cafe, you can enjoy yourself there for
09:16:10 lunch or dinner.
09:16:11 And on behalf of yummy house China bistro you can go enjoy
09:16:16 yourself there as well.
09:16:17 Congratulations.
09:16:18 Thank you very much for what you do.
09:16:19 >> I appreciate it.
09:16:22 >> Chief Dugan, you know, the mayor is out of the country.
09:16:30 I'm glad he's watching
09:16:35 I can say one thing.
09:16:36 He went to China to learn a foreign language, and he will be
09:16:40 back shortly.
09:16:41 But he gave me the keys to before he left and said whatever
09:16:47 you do, don't give them to detective Victors because he
09:16:51 wants to be mayor and I don't want any impersonation of way
09:16:54 do for the city very well.
09:16:57 But on behalf of Tampa City Council, it's my pleasure to
09:17:00 present to you the Officer of the Month.
09:17:03 And between yourself and the chief here.
09:17:06 I get demoted today.
09:17:09 It's our pleasure, we are very proud of everything you have
09:17:14 done.
09:17:14 In my neighborhood, in fact on my street you were very
09:17:17 instrumental in solving a situation that was going on and we
09:17:19 are very appreciative.
09:17:22 Thank you, Mike, for your hard work.
09:17:24 27 years.
09:17:25 27 is a bad number for me.
09:17:27 I know you are 27 service but that was the number I wore in
09:17:31 Cuba when I played baseball and they hit a home run off me
09:17:34 in the bottom of the 9th inning to win the game.
09:17:38 So I will never forget your 27 years of service.
09:17:41 Thank you very much.
09:17:42 (Laughter)
09:17:44 [ Applause ]
09:17:46 >> I just want to say that I am very thankful for receiving
09:17:53 this award.
09:17:54 It means a lot after 27-plus years of service.
09:18:00 My career has been great.
09:18:02 I have been blessed to be part of the best police department
09:18:05 in the city or in the country.
09:18:09 It's truly an honor.
09:18:11 And thanks to the chief, and Chief ward, and my captain
09:18:15 here.
09:18:15 The leadership that I have is truly instrumental in my
09:18:20 career path.
09:18:21 I just wanted to say thank you to everybody that was part of
09:18:25 this.
09:18:26 A lot of this I may have done, but I didn't do it alone.
09:18:30 There's a lot of people behind me that have assisted along
09:18:33 the way.
09:18:34 I just want to say thank you.
09:18:36 [ Applause ]
09:18:38 Cohen Mike, just a minute.
09:18:49 Councilman Maniscalco.
09:18:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I have known you the last year and a
09:18:53 half that I have been here.
09:18:54 I have always enjoyed going over to the other side and
09:18:57 having conversations and whatnot.
09:18:59 And congratulations.
09:19:01 I'm proud to call you my friend.
09:19:03 And thank you for all that you do for us.
09:19:05 >> And to give me a flashback, I thought I would be giving
09:19:12 the mayor's speech at this time.
09:19:14 For someone that stands in the shadows and truly the mayor
09:19:20 is equally passionate about human trafficking as I am and I
09:19:24 am very thankful that I am given the opportunity to work
09:19:27 these type of investigations.
09:19:29 So I just want to say thanks to the mayor and chief.
09:19:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
09:19:37 So you and I have a special relationship as you are one of
09:19:41 my constituents, as the other city-wide City Council
09:19:45 members, and it's always been fun talking to you on the
09:19:50 sidelines while you were memorizing the mayor's speeches.
09:19:56 And I just wish you continued success.
09:19:59 And thank you for everything you have done.
09:20:01 You know, considering your next move, and your next career
09:20:06 path, as you say.
09:20:08 And I would be honored to assist knew anyway that I can.
09:20:12 >> Thank you.
09:20:14 And Councilman Miranda, keep my seat warm.
09:20:18 (Laughter).
09:20:19 >> Thank you, Mike.
09:20:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Miranda, I think we will move on
09:20:27 now to the presentation of the firefighter of the quarter.
09:20:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:20:33 Chief.
09:20:36 You know, we take, all of us, for granted, we take sometimes
09:20:39 even life for granted, we take what we have for granted.
09:20:44 But they don't.
09:20:45 All of them here to serve, the fire department, Chief
09:20:47 Forward and the staff, and all the support, especially the
09:20:51 firefighters, and the captain and so forth.
09:20:53 They do this on a daily basis 24/7, 365.
09:20:59 When we don't feel well, first thing you want to see is
09:21:05 paramedics coming in with their professionalism and
09:21:09 servicing and helping.
09:21:12 By the time you arrive at whatever hospital they are going
09:21:15 to, they already know what you have.
09:21:17 They are ready to prepare you, to help you out, to make your
09:21:20 life last longer.
09:21:22 And I am not saying this about this, captain Martin, but all
09:21:25 of you guys for what you do, and people getting out of a
09:21:28 car, you guys are so smart you're going in.
09:21:33 And it's an honor to be here on behalf of the city, on
09:21:37 behalf of this council, for yourself, captain Martin, Chief
09:21:40 Forward, to be here to say thank you personally and
09:21:46 respectfully to members of this council.
09:21:47 And to say thank you for what you do.
09:21:51 We see these great fire engines of different colors but they
09:21:56 are all there to help, they are all there to rescue
09:21:59 somebody, and it's an honor for me to stand here and say
09:22:02 thank you personally.
09:22:05 I will let the chief speak a minute.
09:22:07 Then we will have the presentation of the citizens who want
09:22:10 to say thank you.
09:22:12 And again thank you for what you are doing.
09:22:13 >> Chief Forward: Chief Forward, Tampa fire chief, City of
09:22:25 Tampa emergency manager.
09:22:26 We are honored to come before you on this day to recognize
09:22:30 and present to you firefighter of the quarter of the fourth
09:22:36 and final quarter of the fiscal year and calendar year of
09:22:40 2016.
09:22:41 It gives me an honor to present to you our member, captain
09:22:45 Jeff Martin, who is being now assigned to station 22-A.
09:22:50 He came on the job in 1989.
09:22:52 He was a very, very eager type of firefighter, very focused
09:22:57 individual who risked a whole lot when he got to the
09:23:02 station.
09:23:02 He just did what he was told to do.
09:23:04 He always brought a great energy, was always at the station
09:23:08 early.
09:23:09 He was a great relief person.
09:23:13 And all about firefighter professionals, love an early
09:23:17 release man.
09:23:18 When we worked 24-hour shift from 7:30 in the morning till 7
09:23:22 positive the next morning -- 7:30 the next morning, if you
09:23:26 had a very tough shift, it really enlightening and
09:23:29 refreshing when your relief person gets there 30 minutes to
09:23:33 an hour early to really relieve you and let you start kind
09:23:38 of winding down to get ready for your next shift.
09:23:42 Jeff was that type of person.
09:23:47 Charlie, he had 27-plus years with fire rescue.
09:23:52 And in fire service, we have 22 fire stations a because
09:23:58 thanks to council and our administration, our 23rd
09:24:01 station is coming in.
09:24:01 But of those 22 fire stations, not only has he filled the
09:24:12 rank of firefighter.
09:24:13 He was also promoted to driver gear and as officer of a
09:24:20 captain now promoted there as well.
09:24:23 He's also certified as a U.S. Coast Guard marine fire
09:24:27 captain as well so he's also utilized in our marine division
09:24:31 operating the multiple vehicles that we have in the
09:24:35 firefighter marine department.
09:24:37 Also with a associate degree in firefighting he has been
09:24:40 very instrumental in not only mentoring and developing our
09:24:43 new and younger firefighters that are coming on, but he has
09:24:48 that continued enthusiasm to be able to support those, reach
09:24:52 out to our community, and for Tampa Fire Rescue.
09:24:58 One of the things that I have encouraged during my
09:25:00 administration is more than just the fire areas of my
09:25:07 focused development of firefighters.
09:25:08 Not only the time on the job, the rank, the certifications
09:25:13 that they are required to do the many various jobs as a
09:25:17 professional responder, education, but how much they help in
09:25:27 the community.
09:25:28 It's more than just being a firefighter for an organization
09:25:31 but how they are giving back to the community they serve.
09:25:33 And this is one of the things that really sets Jeff apart.
09:25:40 He has actively been involved in mentoring youthful members
09:25:45 of our community.
09:25:46 For 14 years he has been a member of the dad's club and a
09:25:49 handyman at the Villa Madonna school.
09:25:52 He's also a volunteer on the dance club at the Jesuit high
09:25:57 school, also the dance club at the holy name of Academy of
09:26:02 Holy Names, and a five year volunteer chaperone for Academy
09:26:06 of Holy Names in their mission program.
09:26:11 He's also volunteered not only on the chaperone program but
09:26:15 you can look at him, he's a handyman so he works with what
09:26:22 they do to maintain that facility, to maintain oh, better
09:26:31 education for the youth that attend that school as well.
09:26:33 But for this and so many other reasons that's why captain
09:26:37 Jeff Martin has been considered and nominated from Tampa
09:26:40 Fire Rescue as our fourth firefighter of the quarter.
09:26:45 [ Applause ]
09:26:46 >> Steve Suarez, president, firefighters local 754, and Bill
09:26:58 Cowell, secretary treasurer.
09:26:59 Jeff, on behalf of 754 and your family at Tampa Fire Rescue,
09:27:06 we are proud to present you with this plaque, Firefighter of
09:27:06 the Quarter, and since you are a handyman, a gift card to
09:27:08 Lowe's.
09:27:09 >> Council, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge that
09:27:17 Jeff brought with him his lovely wife, his son, his father
09:27:22 and mother, and his sister, also.
09:27:29 All of those are with him this morning as well.
09:27:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Welcome and congratulations all of you.
09:27:33 >> Dan Mathis, Straz Center.
09:27:39 Captain Martin, thanks for not only -- you know, we know
09:27:45 what firefighters typically do as regular citizens of the
09:27:49 community.
09:27:49 But what we do not know is that community outreach that's
09:27:54 involved in the community.
09:27:55 And I'm sure those individuals that you impacted by doing
09:27:58 that, that says a lot as far as what Chief Forward produces,
09:28:06 and envisions in our City of Tampa fire department.
09:28:09 On behalf of the Straz Center, we would like to invite you
09:28:13 and your lovely wife out to the illusionist.
09:28:17 Make sure you leave your small change and telephone in the
09:28:22 car because it may disappear.
09:28:23 Thank you for all that you do.
09:28:24 >> Jim Carson, Bill Currie Ford.
09:28:28 We appreciate on behalf of the Currie family, myself, would
09:28:34 like to give you a customized Mustang.
09:28:39 Congratulations again.
09:28:40 >> Thank you.
09:28:41 >> Stepps Towing.
09:28:49 On behalf of the Stepps family, transport, we would like to
09:28:53 present you with use of our corporate limousine.
09:29:01 And bass pro shop to have a little fun.
09:29:04 Thank you for everything you do.
09:29:05 >> Congratulations.
09:29:11 On behalf of the Doubletree, a few cookies, and of course we
09:29:14 have a weekend stay.
09:29:16 Give us a call.
09:29:17 My card is in there.
09:29:18 We'll make sure we take care of you.
09:29:20 Thank you for everything that you do.
09:29:21 >> Can we have your name for the record, please?
09:29:24 >> ASA Thomas.
09:29:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
09:29:27 >> Joe Durkin again on behalf of Bright House networks.
09:29:37 Congratulations.
09:29:38 A great representative of an outstanding fire department.
09:29:41 Thank you for all you do.
09:29:44 I present you with three months of all of our services, high
09:29:49 speed, video.
09:29:53 >> I appreciate it.
09:29:54 >> Good morning.
09:29:57 Busch Gardens, Adventure Islands.
09:30:00 Captain Martin, thank you for your service.
09:30:04 You are an outstanding individual.
09:30:05 We have a really good relationship with the fire department.
09:30:08 We really rely on fire rescue a lot,
09:30:22 We appreciate so much what you do and we hope you will come
09:30:25 out to the park with your family as well and enjoy it at
09:30:29 your leisure.
09:30:31 Thank you very much.
09:30:31 >> Michael Kilgore, Gonzmart family of restaurants.
09:30:36 Thanks for all you do for you and your family.
09:30:39 We have a gift card for the Columbia at any of our seven
09:30:42 locations in Florida and Goody Goody in Hyde Park Village.
09:30:48 Thank you so much.
09:30:49 >> Captain Glen [background noise] Tampa Fire.
09:30:53 I also serve as chair of the Tampa fire awards committee.
09:30:56 Captain Martin, we would like to congratulate you on this
09:30:59 selection.
09:31:00 As you know, our banquet will be at the Tampa Marriott
09:31:03 waterside; it will be October 15th of this year.
09:31:06 We would like to give you a free night's stay for that night
09:31:10 for the banquet and we also have partnered and would like to
09:31:15 present you with dinner for two.
09:31:17 Congratulations.
09:31:17 >> Thank you.
09:31:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't have a bag big enough for this
09:31:28 stuff.
09:31:28 The chief is going to help me.
09:31:31 The chief says he likes these gift certificates for lunch
09:31:35 and dinner.
09:31:35 He's going to hang around to make sure things are safe.
09:31:40 Steve Michelini here on behalf of a couple of corporations.
09:31:43 One is Prestige Photography.
09:31:45 They are going to provide you with a gift package so you can
09:31:49 have your portraits taken for you and your family, from the
09:31:53 Ciccio breakfast group for lunch or dinner, and Byblos cafe.
09:32:03 You can go have dinner.
09:32:04 But I heard the chief likes Mediterranean food.
09:32:07 Don't go to this one with the chief.
09:32:09 He likes Yummy House, too.
09:32:12 It's on Hillsborough Avenue.
09:32:13 And they are going to provide you with a gift certificate as
09:32:15 well.
09:32:16 Anyway, congratulations.
09:32:17 And we do appreciate what you do for us being out there all
09:32:20 the time, and certainly giving of your free time, giving it
09:32:25 back to the community.
09:32:25 That's tremendous, and we really appreciate it.
09:32:27 Thank you very much.
09:32:29 [ Applause ]
09:32:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again it's my pleasure to be here own
09:32:41 behalf of Tampa City Council for all the men and women who
09:32:43 work in the Tampa Fire Department, the chief, the staff, and
09:32:46 everyone in the City of Tampa.
09:32:48 Thank you very much.
09:32:48 My only regret is that I got another number 27.
09:32:54 I didn't finish that story, but that guy hit it over 404
09:32:59 feet away.
09:33:00 Thanks so much for everything you have done.
09:33:02 And I'll think of 27 tonight when I'm asleep.
09:33:06 Thank you very much.
09:33:06 >> Wow, it's amazing.
09:33:13 It's very nice.
09:33:16 Very, very appreciative.
09:33:22 A lot of firefighters on the job.
09:33:23 Any of them are deserving.
09:33:24 I mean, we all work hard.
09:33:27 And it's great.
09:33:29 A lot of hard work is on the job.
09:33:34 I'm honored to be the firefighter of the quarter.
09:33:40 I would like to thank my district chief, chief Gilligan, for
09:33:45 nominating me and thank the board for selecting me in this
09:33:49 position.
09:33:50 I thank my family for coming here and my co-workers to spend
09:33:55 this morning with me.
09:33:56 It's very nice.
09:33:58 I have got 27 years on.
09:34:01 It's been tremendous.
09:34:04 The chief was one of my captains when I first came on.
09:34:08 Man, were we busy at station 5.
09:34:12 But it's been good.
09:34:15 I have enjoyed it.
09:34:21 I don't know what to say.
09:34:26 I hope I did my job.
09:34:28 You know, I have a lot of training from good firefighters
09:34:31 and drivers and captains and chiefs, and I hope that I have
09:34:35 done the same thing with them, training the new employees
09:34:39 and firefighters as they come on.
09:34:45 Fortunately next year I retire.
09:34:47 And kind of sad because we built such a camaraderie at the
09:34:51 fire house.
09:34:51 And it's really a second home.
09:34:56 I have got so many years there, and I am going to miss it.
09:35:02 So I really appreciate everything that was done here for me
09:35:06 today.
09:35:07 Thank you.
09:35:08 [ Applause ]
09:35:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Congratulations.
09:35:22 Your spirit and your sense of camaraderie of the colleagues
09:35:27 come through in everything you said.
09:35:28 We really appreciate it.
09:35:29 Thank you.
09:35:31 All right.
09:35:34 We are going to move on now to our regular agenda.
09:35:38 First we are going to have public comment on items 1, 2 and
09:35:42 3.
09:35:43 We are doing workshops today.
09:35:45 Public comment on each of the workshop items will be held at
09:35:49 the end of the item.
09:35:50 So this period of public comment is only for items 1, 2 and
09:35:55 3.
09:35:56 I don't see any public comment on those three items so I am
09:36:00 going to move on.
09:36:01 Oh, we do have one.
09:36:09 >> Thank you.
09:36:13 Items 1, 2 and 3.
09:36:27 >> Ed Tillou: Okay.
09:36:51 I'll talk about 3 in a second.
09:36:56 With respect to 6, the noise --
09:36:58 >> Sir, we are not taking comment --
09:37:01 >> I won't, but I spoke about noise at a past meeting and
09:37:05 didn't get a chance to finish.
09:37:07 >>HARRY COHEN: You will have an opportunity to speak about
09:37:07 noise during public comment a --
09:37:09 >> But I might not be able to stay.
09:37:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Makes no difference.
09:37:14 >>HARRY COHEN: This is items 1, 2 and 3.
09:37:17 >> I don't think any of you understand that, that
09:37:19 Channelside is getting a thousand times the noise that the
09:37:23 people in Hyde Park are.
09:37:26 Now, I think that's an important thing.
09:37:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Sir.
09:37:30 >> Ed Tillou: Okay.
09:37:32 Item 3.
09:37:33 Okay.
09:37:34 What goes with that is this.
09:37:38 I made a mistake in something I said in the past.
09:37:42 I said this is Samuel Langly, designed the aircraft that I
09:37:52 researched lately, and this kind of went off a catapult,
09:37:55 fell into the river.
09:37:56 So he didn't do very well with that but he was an
09:37:59 astronomer.
09:38:00 One of the things he came up with was infrared.
09:38:03 And I have it all underscored there in highlight.
09:38:06 And infrared and the other factors.
09:38:12 He had a barometer.
09:38:15 And the consequence of that, the global warming has been
09:38:20 known since 1900s and nothing has been done about it.
09:38:24 And now the check is coming due.
09:38:27 Now, this is talking about HUD funds.
09:38:36 Now I said it's 12 feet a year.
09:38:40 So when you go downstairs, look at the pictures.
09:38:44 Look at the pictures of the buildings and things.
09:38:48 And that's a century and it doesn't seem that long ago and
09:38:55 that's in the future and probably is worked into these
09:39:04 funds, and the sea level will be coming over the seawall
09:39:07 here.
09:39:07 Forget about the Riverwalk.
09:39:09 So that is item 3.
09:39:13 And Samuel Langly's contribution to that, that nobody did
09:39:20 anything about.
09:39:21 (Bell sounds)
09:39:22 But as I say, I did some research.
09:39:26 And I found my second cousin's business was wiped out by a
09:39:32 hurricane in his obituary, so people there do have a sense
09:39:36 of that.
09:39:36 So when I tell them that it's not just -- it's just about
09:39:42 every elected official is in denial about global warming,
09:39:45 sea level rise, et cetera, et cetera.
09:39:48 (Bell sounds).
09:39:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
09:39:50 Is there any other public comment on items 1, 2 and 3?
09:39:53 I don't see any.
09:39:54 Councilwoman Montelione, would you please take item number
09:39:57 3?
09:39:58 It is under your committee.
09:39:59 Thank you.
09:40:01 Councilwoman Montelione?
09:40:04 Would you please take item number 3?
09:40:06 It's under your committee's jurisdiction.
09:40:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
09:40:09 >>HARRY COHEN: No?
09:40:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, I am teasing you.
09:40:14 I move resolution approving agreement templates to be used
09:40:18 by the housing and community development division of the
09:40:20 City of Tampa for disposition of U.S. department of housing
09:40:23 and urban development grant funds in the manner approved by
09:40:28 HUD and authorized by this City Council, authorizing the
09:40:31 mayor to execute and the city clerk to attest said
09:40:35 agreements without further approval of City Council,
09:40:37 providing an effective date.
09:40:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:40:41 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion and second.
09:40:43 All those in favor?
09:40:44 Opposed?
09:40:45 All right.
09:40:45 Thank you.
09:40:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have to have a little fun with you
09:40:48 today.
09:40:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open the workshop, Mr. Chairman.
09:40:52 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion and second to open the
09:40:55 workshop.
09:40:55 Please indicate by saying aye.
09:40:57 Opposed? Thank you very much.
09:40:58 We are going to move to item number 4, which is our workshop
09:41:03 on the equal business opportunity advisory council
09:41:07 recommendation.
09:41:10 And then we'll move into part B of that workshop an part A.
09:41:21 >>GREGORY HART: Manager, small business minority business
09:41:23 development office.
09:41:25 I have a few slides that I will refer to.
09:41:30 And in essence open the discussion on this workshop for the
09:41:34 city's ordinance.
09:41:35 I think what I will do is hand you copies of ever and ask as
09:41:45 best you can. Don't read ahead of me.
09:41:50 If I could have the overhead projector activated.
09:42:25 Again the motion was to begin conversation with council,
09:42:43 with EBOAC committee.
09:42:56 It's helpful when beginning discussions such as this to give
09:42:59 you some background and some history as to where a
09:43:03 particular program is and has been.
09:43:07 So with that I am really going to provide some comments that
09:43:10 give you an overview.
09:43:19 The city's ordinance, as a matter of fact, the purpose and
09:43:41 intent of our ordinance was one to facilitate equal
09:43:46 opportunity for small and minority businesses in government,
09:43:49 contract, procurement.
09:43:50 Secondly, intended to codify a framework for ethnic and
09:43:56 gender conscious programs that will ensure city's compliance
09:43:59 with rulings set forth by, A, the Supreme Court, and, B,
09:44:04 controlling case law from the PROGENY of federal district
09:44:10 and appellate courts.
09:44:11 Third it was designed to institutionalize a legally
09:44:16 defensible process that will depoliticize the formulation of
09:44:19 program policies and initiatives as to how we implement and
09:44:22 operate the programs.
09:44:39 It's founded and driven by the law.
09:44:41 And the Supreme Court and lower court rulings that govern
09:44:44 how we craft our ordinance now implemented.
09:44:48 The U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in the city of rich man
09:44:53 versus frozen.
09:44:59 The courts held that local government could not rely on
09:45:03 discrimination or seek racial balancing as the basis for
09:45:07 WMBE, women minority business enterprise, race-based
09:45:11 contracting programs.
09:45:13 Policies proscribed on that date were prohibited and
09:45:19 unconstitutional.
09:45:21 The court also imposed new standards on how municipalities
09:45:25 utilized contracting programs to increase women minority
09:45:28 business enterprise participation.
09:45:32 Standards that the Supreme Court set in the federal district
09:45:43 court require cities to establish a factual basis of
09:45:49 underutilization of discrimination which must be
09:45:52 substantiated by competent evidence of disparity before
09:45:57 adopting local legislation to allow race conscious remedies.
09:46:00 And even those remedies are initiatives that create
09:46:04 opportunity and access to contracts.
09:46:06 They cannot be quotas.
09:46:08 The standards require local legislation, be it an orbs, a
09:46:12 resolution or whatever it may be, to be narrowly tailored.
09:46:16 For an ordinance to be narrowly tailored the government
09:46:19 entity must consider race/gender neutral solutions first.
09:46:24 That's what our small business initiative is.
09:46:28 And that's because of the size and capacity of small
09:46:32 businesses is due to challenges that women and minorities
09:46:35 face regardless of ethnicity.
09:46:37 Those standards mandate use of methodology, metrics and
09:46:41 analytics to determine disparity and hence provide the legal
09:46:45 basis to implement narrowly tailored race conscious remedies
09:46:49 when applicable to that promote increased WMBE
09:46:53 participation.
09:47:04 Let me give you a little background in terms of how we got
09:47:07 to the current ordinance.
09:47:08 The City Commission, a disparity study in fiscal year 2005.
09:47:14 We retained a national company, Mason Tillman and
09:47:19 associates, a national policy firm, and the disparity
09:47:24 studies all across the country.
09:47:26 The cost of that study was approximately $246,000.
09:47:30 That study was completed in fiscal year 2007.
09:47:35 The study essentially revealed that there was no disparity
09:47:39 in subcontracting.
09:47:42 There was marginal disparity with prime contracts at a
09:47:46 procurement level of $500,000 and less.
09:47:50 Therefore, there was no legal basis for a mandatory ethnic
09:47:53 and gender specific contract goals program.
09:47:55 In other words, we were not on firm ground with women and
09:48:00 minority business initiatives that were race conscious
09:48:03 driven.
09:48:04 And more importantly the primary recommendation included
09:48:07 development of DMI, which is the diversity management
09:48:11 information system required to do the data collection that
09:48:14 the courts stipulate.
09:48:16 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Montelione has a question.
09:48:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, yes, the question that I am
09:48:25 looking at City of Tampa equal business opportunity program
09:48:28 supplement to fiscal year 2011 annual report, January 2012.
09:48:35 I think you provided it to me shortly after it was done,
09:48:38 sometime in early 2012.
09:48:40 And on page 8, it assume rises the study from 2008 to 2088,
09:48:49 African-American contracts equals 1.52% and Caucasian male
09:48:55 contracts is 94.67%, and all the other Hispanic Caucasian
09:49:01 female and Asian Americans are .07, 1.68 and 2.06.
09:49:10 And then in the next page where it has all industries, city
09:49:17 prime contracts, similar disparities, 95.39% Caucasian and
09:49:24 1.42, 1.84 for Hispanic, American contracts, and from was
09:49:31 1.29.
09:49:35 So I'm a little confused as to the numbers.
09:49:40 And those are the 2008 to 2011 numbers.
09:49:46 And I'm looking to see.
09:49:49 And I guess that's what we were provided as of the 12
09:49:55 update.
09:49:57 The appendix page 27, construction related services,
09:50:01 participation analysis, it has Caucasian males at 25.79,
09:50:06 minority and women business enterprise total 25.16, but
09:50:11 African-Americans only 5.03.
09:50:16 Percent.
09:50:19 >>GREGORY HART: Okay.
09:50:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So it seems like after the analysis of
09:50:22 2012 we see quite a difference.
09:50:24 >> I think I am going to address some of that in terms of
09:50:27 the presentation I am making.
09:50:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
09:50:32 Make sure you touch upon that.
09:50:34 Thank you.
09:50:35 Heart Hart we will.
09:50:37 The screen before you right now is simply a presentation,
09:50:41 illustration, of the process which not only does that we
09:50:48 ourselves developed in terms of running a small business
09:50:51 initiative first and foremost and determining the facts
09:50:57 essential to women and minority firms are participating.
09:51:00 That's the DMI.
09:51:01 And then of course we do a disparity analysis.
09:51:05 If there is no significant disparity underutilization, you
09:51:11 can continue at your discretion to run your SLBE program, if
09:51:17 there's disparity that exists, we do consider the data and
09:51:22 have it reviewed for legal sufficiency and then we
09:51:26 initiative remedies to begin addressing the
09:51:30 underutilization.
09:51:40 This slide in terms of chronology and background, we will
09:51:44 begin to get, I believe, at what Councilman Montelione was
09:51:48 referencing.
09:51:49 The ordinance that's currently in effect was enacted in July
09:51:53 2008.
09:51:54 The city retained the services of Colette-holt and
09:52:03 associates to determine legal efficiency.
09:52:09 Holt and associates is an expert litigation firm. The
09:52:11 general counsel, national association that conducts and
09:52:14 determines the sufficiency of disparity studies and they
09:52:19 have gone through several federal cases to litigate, protect
09:52:25 cities and elected officials from suit.
09:52:29 The ordinance provides the SLBE program suggested by the
09:52:33 courts which is an neutral initiative to address small
09:52:37 business participation.
09:52:39 It also provides the reinstatement criteria for having race
09:52:43 and gender and ethnic conscious remedies targeted at women
09:52:49 and minority firms.
09:52:50 The ordinance also, in accordance with the disparity study
09:52:53 and suggested judicial guidelines, we did develop a DMI
09:53:00 system and program which addresses methodology, metrics,
09:53:04 analytics.
09:53:06 That was a process that encompassed almost two years of
09:53:09 development.
09:53:13 And foremost, the ordinance specifically provides that the
09:53:17 use of ethnic and gender contract goals must be based on
09:53:21 multi-year statistical evidence.
09:53:23 And the time frame for that is between 3 and 5 years.
09:53:27 And as I previously mentioned once that's conducted, and
09:53:30 there's a legal review.
09:53:35 Again, the disparity study concluded there was no legal
09:53:49 justification for mandatory ethnic and gender based goals
09:53:52 and initiatives.
09:53:53 That was in 2007 when the study was officially submitted and
09:53:57 approved by the city.
09:53:59 Therefore the WMBE program initiative was suspended for
09:54:03 nearly four years.
09:54:04 To reinstate the WMBE program initiative the city high
09:54:07 pressure to meet strict judicial guidelines and standards
09:54:10 that the U.S. courts now apply to local government
09:54:13 contracting programs.
09:54:14 Minority business development, small business development,
09:54:17 in response to all of this information, enacted new business
09:54:21 processes to ensure comprehensive data collection and report
09:54:24 methodology that aligned with the court rulings.
09:54:28 We began compilation of our multiyear data for disparity.
09:54:35 As Councilwoman recently referenced, completed four year DMI
09:54:52 completed in fiscal year 2012.
09:54:54 The findings were submitted to City Council and EBOAC.
09:54:59 The mayor convened the internal administrative SLBE Program
09:55:02 Committee.
09:55:04 The mayor advised council of the proposed WMBE initiatives
09:55:08 that were developed based on the findings.
09:55:11 City Council scheduled public hearings.
09:55:15 I think we had -- I know we had one and possibly two.
09:55:19 And then as a result, beginning with fiscal year 2013, the
09:55:25 current and new women and minority business enterprise
09:55:31 program was reinstated with new initiatives.
09:55:50 For those of you who were signature on council at that time
09:55:55 in 2012, this is part of a package provided to you.
09:56:00 And it reflects the, and Mrs. Montelione, I believe you were
09:56:12 part of that process.
09:56:19 And in several packages that you have been provided -- I
09:56:22 know you can't read this, but the outcome of the four year
09:56:29 and reinstatement of the WMBE component resulted in these
09:56:33 initiatives and that's what we are currently programming for
09:56:38 the community.
09:56:42 So in conclusion, to help facilitate and start conversation,
09:56:50 we are in our third reporting period for the current
09:56:53 initiatives under the new guidelines and methodologies
09:56:56 established by the ordinance.
09:56:58 The judicial guidelines have been best practices, describe a
09:57:03 benchmark of executive report periods.
09:57:06 And that's done, and that's required to normalize the data
09:57:11 piece.
09:57:12 In the fifth period a complete disparity analysis of the
09:57:15 current initiatives and policies in effect will be done, and
09:57:19 that may provide a predicate for change.
09:57:27 The ordinance is sufficiently relevant to meet the strict
09:57:30 scrutiny requirements of a narrowly tailored WMBE program.
09:57:34 So in conclusion, I thought it would be helpful and
09:57:37 appropriate to give you a brief overview of where our
09:57:41 current ordinance currently stands in terms of the operating
09:57:52 deficiency and how we got to this point.
09:57:54 So with that I will entertain questions.
09:57:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions from council members.
09:58:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Hart, thank you for that overview and
09:58:12 what you are trying to do to improve it.
09:58:15 But the thing that stands out to me the most is when I look
09:58:18 at the data, and I'm looking at something that you, I guess,
09:58:27 gave to all council members a package that I received, and
09:58:34 one of the things I'm noticing that we still have a problem
09:58:41 when it comes down to contracting, finding businesses that
09:58:55 provide services in the City of Tampa that are not white
09:59:02 Americans, and we still have a problem.
09:59:04 Because to Georgia back to fiscal year 11, I'm reading, the
09:59:14 data that came off of this report.
09:59:16 I go back to years 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.
09:59:28 Well, 15.
09:59:30 And these are total dollars spent on construction services
09:59:33 and goods by race and gender.
09:59:38 And when I look at you take fiscal year 2011 in construction
09:59:46 services, white Americans 27,354,339.
09:59:54 $27 million.
09:59:57 African-American construction services, $400,000.
10:00:04 And when I look at the total for the year, white Americans
10:00:11 $75,715,807.
10:00:16 From, 510,000.
10:00:21 That's a huge discrepancy there.
10:00:27 Would you tell me what is the problem that is causing these
10:00:30 numbers to be so wide?
10:00:38 >>GREGORY HART: Councilman Reddick, if I might ask, for my
10:00:41 clarity, what the document or spreadsheet you are referring
10:00:44 to?
10:00:45 The one that we -- okay.
10:00:48 Okay.
10:00:51 In an effort to respond to your many questions, I would
10:00:55 first begin by making it known that that form is simply us
10:01:03 providing data as requested by the requester.
10:01:09 It has not been sifted or sanitized based on the
10:01:21 requirements in terms of how you look at data and do a
10:01:24 disparity analysis.
10:01:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: But these are actual numbers, right?
10:01:36 >> >>GREGORY HART: Actual numbers. But in what context?
10:01:40 Let me answer, I believe, your second question, that
10:01:42 information on that sheet is payment data.
10:01:47 It's like a financial report.
10:01:59 It does not necessarily reflect that contracts in 2012 are
10:02:03 not warranted and payments are still being made against that
10:02:07 contract.
10:02:08 What you are looking at are payments, okay.
10:02:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just be clear.
10:02:14 Even if they are payments, and I just take fiscal year 2015,
10:02:21 even if they are just payments, that means under
10:02:26 construction services, you paid white Americans $17,023,951.
10:02:37 That's what you paid out.
10:02:40 >>GREGORY HART: The other thing I need to make you aware of,
10:02:44 the term or definition white American is inclusive of any
10:02:51 and everyone who is not certified.
10:02:53 We cannot discern with certainty the exact number of firms
10:02:58 who are actually Caucasian owned.
10:03:00 As a matter of fact, there are Hispanics and minority,
10:03:04 African-American firms in that number.
10:03:07 We have firms in the community -- I can cite a couple but I
10:03:11 won't call them out -- Hispanic owned that are clearly 100%
10:03:15 Hispanic owned that are not certified.
10:03:18 They are no longer minority certified because they decided
10:03:22 they didn't want to for various reasons.
10:03:26 There are black-owned firms that are in that category of
10:03:30 data that are not certified.
10:03:33 So I just want to clarify that category.
10:03:42 Certainly the predominant is probably Caucasian male-owned
10:03:47 firms but it's not everything.
10:03:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
10:03:50 So would you say --
10:03:53 >> Those are non-certified firms.
10:03:56 That's their form.
10:03:57 We simply filled it out.
10:03:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: I don't want to prolong this but let me
10:04:04 just ask you this.
10:04:05 Would you consider this data to be deceiving?
10:04:19 You have to justify how this came about, and these are
10:04:24 supposed to be actual dollars spent.
10:04:26 >>GREGORY HART: In a, the data is correct.
10:04:29 We just put them in the boxes.
10:04:31 >> Okay, these numbers are correct here.
10:04:32 >> But you are attempting to discern from that data that
10:04:35 there's some kind of disparity or discrepancy and it's not
10:04:39 that easy.
10:04:40 The methodology that has to be provided is based on the
10:04:43 available firms and the perspective categories of work and
10:04:48 how they are certified.
10:04:50 For instance you related construction services.
10:04:53 The city in the past couple of years only 5% was actually in
10:04:57 construction.
10:04:58 It went to firms.
10:05:01 The city did not perform a lot of vertical construction.
10:05:05 I mention that as one example to put into context how this
10:05:07 information needs to be reviewed and digested.
10:05:11 So it doesn't necessarily mean.
10:05:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, make it simple for me.
10:05:18 You gave me this report.
10:05:20 How should I read this report to have a clear understanding
10:05:23 what the message you are trying to get out based on this
10:05:26 report?
10:05:29 And just reading it --
10:05:31 >> In those respective years and respective categories of
10:05:36 work and the categories of work, the payments the city made.
10:05:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: I think that's why the public is so
10:05:45 confused about these reports.
10:05:48 And I think that's why so many questions have been raised
10:05:53 about these numbers.
10:05:55 Because, you know, I have a difficult time understanding,
10:06:04 with all of the construction going on in the City of Tampa,
10:06:10 and when I pass by the construction sites, see contractors
10:06:20 going to work and when I get the calls from contractors,
10:06:23 saying they can't get contracts with the city,
10:06:27 Subcontractors saying they can't get contracts with the
10:06:29 city, and when I read this data, and even though you have --
10:06:36 I mean, you have a way to do what it means to interpret
10:06:47 these numbers.
10:06:47 But these are actually dollars that have been spent.
10:06:50 That's the only thing I'm saying here.
10:06:52 How you categorize it based on your category here, these are
10:06:56 actually dollars being spent.
10:06:59 >> >>GREGORY HART: That's why we make every effort to
10:07:03 distill some of the complexities of what we are required to
10:07:05 do in documents like this.
10:07:08 But, sir, I don't disagree with you in terms of all of the
10:07:12 construction occurring within our city, but I have to ask
10:07:16 myself as I do the general public interested in our program,
10:07:21 just how much of that construction is actually under the
10:07:24 city's purview.
10:07:27 I can't tell you how many times we have a contract with a
10:07:29 certified company calls or coming to our office with issues,
10:07:34 and when we do our due diligence it's not even a city
10:07:38 contract, it's a county, a state, or school or someone else.
10:07:41 But nonetheless, there's a lot of construction.
10:07:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: And my last question to you is this.
10:07:46 If I look at fiscal year 2011, the first report, whether
10:07:54 it's certified or not, 35 vendors, $75 million paid to white
10:08:00 Americans.
10:08:03 510,000 paid to African-Americans.
10:08:07 4,535 paid to Hispanic Americans.
10:08:12 Asian Americans got 22,000, and women got 649,899.
10:08:22 If I do the percentage based on these numbers and these
10:08:24 categories, and you compare, the percentage would not look
10:08:35 good.
10:08:37 >>GREGORY HART: And not good based on what?
10:08:38 What is the reference? How should it look?
10:08:42 Again --
10:08:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: We are saying that -- you know, Perry
10:08:45 Harvey used to say this when he was on City Council.
10:08:54 Provide me the same economic opportunity that is the makeup
10:09:03 of the city's population.
10:09:04 When I look at these dollars, and these numbers are less
10:09:10 than 15% of the African-American population or 25%, whatever
10:09:14 it is, and Perry Harvey -- I don't know if Charlie -- -- and
10:09:28 it was embarrassing all these years that he has been on
10:09:32 council, and after he left the council, and I see 6, 7, 8%.
10:09:42 >>GREGORY HART: I am with you 100% there.
10:09:44 My family has a minority-owned business.
10:09:48 We are prohibited from assuming and executing initiatives
10:09:57 only on the basis of population equity.
10:10:00 It is unconstitutional to do racial balancing just on the
10:10:05 basis of population being 30% black or 35% Hispanic,
10:10:12 et cetera, when in fact the businesses within that
10:10:19 population are not representative of the actual population.
10:10:21 It has to be from a fundamental basis looked at in terms of
10:10:26 what other small minority businesses in your marketplace --
10:10:30 and even marketplace has parameters, and then what are the
10:10:35 specific traits?
10:10:38 That's the availability benchmark, if you will, denominator
10:10:44 that you have to use, if that helps a little bit.
10:10:47 But I'm there with you 100%.
10:10:49 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
10:10:50 And chair, if you will give me one more question.
10:10:53 And I don't want to prolong this.
10:10:55 But tell me, what are you recruiting to, to reach out?
10:11:02 I don't know how many staff personnel that you have working
10:11:05 underneath, but --
10:11:07 >> We have been cut 6% since the austerity measures.
10:11:11 >> Say that again.
10:11:13 >> We have been cut back 50% as most of our departments have
10:11:16 been when the disparity measures went into effect when the
10:11:20 economy turns. So we are making the best with what we have.
10:11:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
10:11:25 But my final question is, what is your recruiting method for
10:11:34 reaching out to minority and businesses?
10:11:40 Hart heart we work in concert with all of --
10:11:44 >>GREGORY HART: We work in concert with all of our partners
10:11:46 in the community, USF, we hold workshops, we recruit known
10:11:51 firms that have come to our attention as being small.
10:11:55 We use the institution, Hillsborough County community
10:11:59 college, et cetera, and reaching out and collaborating with
10:12:03 our partners to make everyone available of the need to get
10:12:07 certified with not only the city, but the county, and
10:12:11 Pinellas, and the city of St. Pete.
10:12:13 They all work in the same jurisdiction.
10:12:14 So we are doing all of that and then some.
10:12:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, chair.
10:12:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
10:12:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know, Mr. Hart, that your staff was
10:12:26 gutted.
10:12:27 Because when I was working for our business you had a full
10:12:35 staff.
10:12:35 You had people working and now I know you are working
10:12:38 with -- you do the best you can with the people that you
10:12:40 have, and the resources that have been allocated.
10:12:44 But you and I also had conversations back in '11, 12 and 13
10:12:52 about, you know, my experiences were that you filled out the
10:13:00 paperwork, you became certified, and then you, through our
10:13:07 system, which a lot of different municipalities and
10:13:13 government news, you get e-mail notifications of what
10:13:15 contracts are coming up.
10:13:17 And beyond that, that was with the smaller staff that you
10:13:24 had that was about all that you can accomplish, is to get
10:13:28 people certified and make sure they knew of the
10:13:30 opportunities.
10:13:34 There wasn't, you know, training, there wasn't, you know, in
10:13:38 this article that you gave us, there's a statement that this
10:13:45 one particular contractor got help with renegotiating a
10:13:49 contract because as a small business she couldn't keep up
10:13:55 and was getting overwhelmed.
10:13:57 And that's the kind of hand holding that you and I had
10:14:00 talked about several years ago, that some of the companies
10:14:03 do need, especially when you are a small business, you are a
10:14:07 minority business, you are up against, you know, such larger
10:14:11 businesses.
10:14:12 You need that extra hand holding.
10:14:14 So we were referring out to different nonprofits, not that
10:14:20 we had a direct partnership with them, but, you know, the
10:14:25 Hispanic businesses, the small business unit over at USF,
10:14:32 and you mentioned HCC.
10:14:40 But if we wanted to be truly partners with the small
10:14:46 business minorities, and the mayor, all of us talk about how
10:14:49 the City of Tampa is a paella and how we pride ourselves on
10:14:54 diversity but the numbers that we are seeing don't prove out
10:14:58 that we are putting our money where our mouth is, so to
10:15:02 speak.
10:15:04 So there's a lot of work to be done as far as giving you the
10:15:08 tools that you need to further the businesses.
10:15:19 Some of them don't even know that they can get help.
10:15:22 But sometimes the help is getting certified and having the
10:15:27 e-mails.
10:15:28 It's not, you know, an all-encompassing program that we as a
10:15:32 city perform.
10:15:33 We rely on our nonprofits both in the general public.
10:15:39 While legally, you cited Constitutionally we can't isolate
10:15:46 by population.
10:15:49 This program is here for a reason, because there was a
10:15:53 disparity.
10:15:54 And, you know, the numbers, when you are explaining on the
10:16:00 forum that in the white American category there may be black
10:16:04 and Hispanic and women-owned businesses, but you couldn't
10:16:08 pull them out.
10:16:10 I don't know, I think a little bit of extra work and you may
10:16:14 have been able to pull those numbers out.
10:16:16 So it is a little misleading with that explanation, but I
10:16:24 can't imagine that with the historical numbers that were in
10:16:29 the report that I cited earlier, the 2012 report, that is a
10:16:36 great percentage of that number that is black or Hispanic or
10:16:41 women-owned businesses, or Asians or any other ethnicity.
10:16:45 So even just saying that maybe at most it's 3% of that
10:16:51 overall number, it still puts us way outside.
10:16:56 And the original study was done 11 years ago.
10:17:02 And we have updated it.
10:17:16 Maybe this is a question for the legal department but what
10:17:18 is the trigger for having another disparity study being
10:17:21 done?
10:17:22 >> I would say at the end of our fifth year of disparity
10:17:25 analysis data we look at the results of that data to see if
10:17:28 our current initiatives were impactful, and then --
10:17:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Isn't it five years, if 11 was the last
10:17:37 report, this is 2016?
10:17:39 >>GREGORY HART: Let me restate.
10:17:40 A disparity study is has a marginal difference in terms of
10:17:52 disparity analysis, okay.
10:17:55 The disparity was done in 2005, complete in 2007, which was
10:18:00 an audit, that provided us the necessary scrutiny to
10:18:06 determine if, one, the City of Tampa has the necessary
10:18:10 system and methodologies to track businesses, track them by
10:18:18 certification --
10:18:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right, but --
10:18:23 >>GREGORY HART: And the system, the methodology that was
10:18:25 developed, because we were lacking by law, had to be put
10:18:31 into place for at least four years, three to five years.
10:18:36 So what I am saying to you is, yes, you are correct.
10:18:39 The study was done in 2007.
10:18:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
10:18:43 >>GREGORY HART: It was four years the developing of our
10:18:47 system that meets the judicial requirement, four years of
10:18:52 collecting data to determine, then analyze that data because
10:18:57 of the disparity analysis.
10:18:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
10:18:59 But I am trying to --
10:19:02 >>GREGORY HART: And prior to 2007 was not any good
10:19:05 because --
10:19:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay, 2012 was the four years.
10:19:10 So my initial question is when can we do another -- what's
10:19:14 the trigger for doing another disparity study?
10:19:17 Or can we do it at any time?
10:19:20 Right now we can't request an audit but maybe after the
10:19:23 November election maybe we will be able to request one.
10:19:27 But how do we determine without relying on, you know, maybe
10:19:33 a form that doesn't break things down properly and without
10:19:36 relying on just, you know, the numbers you are providing.
10:19:42 When consider we do a forensic audit or have another
10:19:45 disparity study to get actual numbers to see where we
10:19:51 started from.
10:19:54 >>GREGORY HART: These are actual -- my professional --
10:19:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Mandell will address it.
10:20:00 >>JULIA MANDELL: City attorney.
10:20:03 From what I understand, there's no legal obligation to do
10:20:08 another study.
10:20:09 Our study is valid in perpetuity.
10:20:12 And there's no legal obligation.
10:20:21 I mean, if there's a reason to do it because we are trying
10:20:24 to change something possibly, but --
10:20:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: What triggers the disparity study in
10:20:33 2007?
10:20:34 I mean 2005?
10:20:36 A short answer.
10:20:40 Short answer.
10:20:42 >>GREGORY HART: There was some concern that we were
10:20:47 conducting a program in a legal fashion. And we had to
10:20:54 reaffirm that.
10:20:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So as a firm that we were conducting the
10:20:58 department in a legal fashion.
10:21:02 What tells us that we are making headway in fairly spreading
10:21:11 city dollars amongst the paella that we have, individuals
10:21:20 and companies in this city?
10:21:23 >>GREGORY HART: That would be a disparity study done
10:21:26 internally based on the initiatives in play now.
10:21:29 If I can answer your question.
10:21:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But you spent like 25 minutes, half an
10:21:34 hour talking about this.
10:21:36 >>GREGORY HART: No, I was --
10:21:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And we are trying to get down to
10:21:41 succinct answers.
10:21:45 I'm listening to what everybody is saying here.
10:21:47 I'm listening to what the community has been saying.
10:21:50 I have listened to TOBA.
10:21:52 I have listened to the Saturday morning breakfast group.
10:21:55 I read, besides the one article that you gave us, there's a
10:21:58 lot of information that we are getting that seems to point
10:22:01 to -- and I'm the one who asks for every agenda item that we
10:22:07 are awarding a contract for to the show what the breakdown
10:22:11 is of minority on the cover sheet so we don't have to dig
10:22:15 for it.
10:22:16 I asked for that in 2011 or 12, and so far most of the
10:22:20 departments have been compliant.
10:22:22 Every contract we get shows how much we are spending in
10:22:26 minority.
10:22:26 And just from sitting here for five and a half years it's a
10:22:30 really small number of each contract.
10:22:32 Really small number.
10:22:34 And, you know, I get excited.
10:22:37 I pulled one of them and I have it here in my file.
10:22:40 Some of them are 20% which is the highest that I think I
10:22:43 have seen for individual contracts.
10:22:47 We do sometimes 100% on set aside.
10:22:50 But we are all expressing to you and to the administration
10:22:54 that we don't feel we have gotten there yet.
10:22:57 >> What would you have us do, Mrs. Montelione, that's legal?
10:23:02 Because --
10:23:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I have asked for a head count from
10:23:08 your department, I have asked for further outreach.
10:23:10 Because you can only do what you can with the people that
10:23:12 you have.
10:23:13 I mean, they are all very good people.
10:23:15 They all work hard and they all are passionate about what
10:23:17 they do.
10:23:18 But you can't serve a city of 300,000-plus people with,
10:23:23 what, three, four employees?
10:23:25 So, you know, I have asked, and I have asked.
10:23:28 So I think that where we need to go is we need to have
10:23:34 another analysis done to show effectively where we are.
10:23:43 And none of us are satisfied with where we are.
10:23:46 So we need to have a more robust program.
10:23:50 We need to have more communication.
10:23:51 We need to have better recruiting.
10:23:53 We need to have hand holding.
10:23:55 We need to have workshops with the community coming in on a
10:23:58 regular basis, like we do with so many other things.
10:24:01 I mean, there's a lot that can be done quite frankly.
10:24:05 But I know that you are hands are tied in many ways because
10:24:09 you don't have the tools and you don't have the personnel to
10:24:15 accomplish it.
10:24:16 I mean, much in the way we started out, and we fought for
10:24:20 code enforcement, neighborhood enhancement.
10:24:22 And I saw B.J. Slater sitting here in the chambers.
10:24:27 We fought for improvement was neighborhood enhancement over
10:24:31 and over and over again, and finally we got the help that we
10:24:35 needed. So I think now maybe it's, you know, we need to
10:24:39 fight for you and get you the help that you need so that we
10:24:42 can have a more robust program and be more inclusive and
10:24:46 have, you know, numbers that have higher percentages than we
10:24:50 have currently now.
10:24:53 So, you know, I hope that we can continue to work toward
10:24:56 that goal.
10:24:59 We just passed a budget last night and there weren't any
10:25:02 additional head counts for you in that budget.
10:25:04 So there's always next year.
10:25:05 And I'm hoping for the best.
10:25:08 And maybe after I leave this dais I can help you in other
10:25:12 ways.
10:25:13 >> We would welcome you volunteering.
10:25:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: (Laughter)
10:25:18 Absolutely.
10:25:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mrs. Montelione.
10:25:20 Are there any additional comments or questions from council
10:25:23 members on this topic?
10:25:24 I know that the sheet that you were both referring, to
10:25:30 Councilman Reddick and Councilwoman Montelione.
10:25:34 Anything additional?
10:25:35 >> No, sir.
10:25:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Cohen if not we are going to go to public
10:25:41 comment on item number 4 if there's anyone in the public
10:25:43 that would like to speak on item number 4.
10:25:45 Now is your opportunity.
10:25:47 I don't see anyone.
10:25:49 Yes, Mr. Reddick.
10:25:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just to be clear.
10:25:54 On part B, item number 4, we received that information to
10:26:03 those questions?
10:26:04 >>HARRY COHEN: I believe it was the handout that you were
10:26:07 questioning about.
10:26:08 That's actually it.
10:26:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
10:26:10 Thank you.
10:26:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
10:26:12 Item number 5.
10:26:17 We have a memorandum off from Thom Snelling asking that that
10:26:19 item be rescheduled to October 27, 2016 workshop session.
10:26:25 >> Move to reschedule.
10:26:26 >> Second.
10:26:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion from Councilman Montelione.
10:26:31 Second from Councilman Capin.
10:26:36 All in favor?
10:26:36 So we will hear that in October.
10:26:38 We move now to item number 6 which is our workshop on noise
10:26:42 and decibel levels.
10:26:43 There are a lot of people in the audience that have been
10:26:45 waiting for that item.
10:26:46 And I think we are going to begin with our legal department.
10:26:50 Mr. Schmid. There are a number of presentations that are
10:26:53 going to be made this morning on this topic.
10:26:57 And before we go any further, I know that all council
10:27:07 members would like to move through them in a timely way.
10:27:11 Mr. Schmid.
10:27:13 >>Michael Schmid: Mike Schmid, assistant city attorney.
10:27:17 I will try to address item 6-A and then with regard to item
10:27:22 6-B, I would like to give a little time to code enforcement
10:27:30 and the police department to briefly address those issues.
10:27:34 >>HARRY COHEN: And we have some private individuals, and we
10:27:40 also have an opportunity to talk to EPC and then have public
10:27:45 comments.
10:27:45 >>Michael Schmid: Yes, sir.
10:27:47 With regards to just a little bit of background with regards
10:27:51 to item 6-A and the workshop that we are here to discuss the
10:27:56 decibel levels, again, I know I went through the City
10:28:00 Council in the past about the noise levels and how they were
10:28:03 set.
10:28:04 I just want to make it again clear for City Council and the
10:28:08 public that these noise levels initiated out of the 1999
10:28:15 study when a noise consultant, Dr. Seibein was used by YCDC,
10:28:25 in consultation with the city as well as Mr. Bentley, who
10:28:31 represented YCDC at the time.
10:28:34 These noise levels were set out and established back at that
10:28:36 time.
10:28:39 What I will call the downtown Ybor Channelside levels were
10:28:43 created at that time, along with the levels that were
10:28:47 created for the rest of Tampa.
10:28:49 The transcripts from the 1999-2003, 2008-9, 2013, all these
10:28:58 transcripts have been provided to City Council, uploaded as
10:29:02 part of the record for City Council when we came back before
10:29:06 you on this ordinance so that you would be able to rely on
10:29:09 those transcripts and prior testimony with respect to the
10:29:13 decibel levels.
10:29:14 We did not have a noise consultant this time around retained
10:29:20 for the purpose of studying the decibel levels because we
10:29:24 were relying on the previous decibel levels that were
10:29:27 already in place and well established in the record.
10:29:29 With that being said, we were specifically requested to look
10:29:34 at the plainly audible, any sort of recommendation at the
10:29:37 time that we presented our ordinance, we were not asked to
10:29:42 look at the decibel levels.
10:29:44 We weren't recommending any changes to the decibel levels.
10:29:46 Therefore, we relied on all the past testimony.
10:29:50 So three years has already been spent looking again at this.
10:29:55 And as I explained last time it seems that all our prior
10:29:59 studies would take extensive years to get done.
10:30:04 The ordinance that was passed last time after studying from
10:30:07 2013 to be 2016, we made our recommendation, and now we are
10:30:13 looking specifically at addressing decibel levels.
10:30:16 I would point out that not only are these decibel levels in
10:30:24 place since 1999, DEP has provided in the past also in 1999,
10:30:28 I believe they were also present in 2003, they have been
10:30:31 present along the way, expert testimony supported the levels
10:30:39 set out.
10:30:39 In fact, actually, Dr. Siebein in 1999 was recommending 75,
10:30:49 was given 85 in downtown, Channelside.
10:30:59 Council, prior to have today, and the last to second reading
10:31:03 of the ordinance, we have not seen any complaints with
10:31:05 regard to the decibel levels and enforcement of the decibel
10:31:09 levels.
10:31:09 However, now the second reading we received all of a sudden
10:31:12 a lot of complaints about the way the decibel levels were
10:31:15 set, and that's, I guess, why we are here today in part.
10:31:21 I think a lot of, from what I have participated in meetings
10:31:25 with both the SoHo business district and what I have been
10:31:27 able to try to see from Mr. Bentley's presentation to be, it
10:31:34 seems like we are getting a lot of complaints here today
10:31:37 that are going to come forward about possible issues rather
10:31:41 than actual issues that we are seeing right now.
10:31:44 So, for example, we know we have the testimony that's been
10:31:47 given to testimonying sheer incredible volume of complaints
10:31:52 throughout the entire city.
10:31:53 But when it comes down to actual enforcement of those, they
10:32:00 are usually resolved.
10:32:01 Normally a response, a warming, resolves the issue and
10:32:06 several few citations have actually been issued.
10:32:08 Many of these bars that have concerns about the ordinance
10:32:12 would also tell you that they don't have a problem with
10:32:16 enforcement.
10:32:18 The city has been working with them to ultimately achieve
10:32:21 the goal of compliance, working with them, and when you look
10:32:25 at the transcripts in '99, all the past testimony, the same
10:32:29 concerns we are hearing now have been echoed throughout that
10:32:33 time.
10:32:33 The bars in 2003 for example said these noise levels are
10:32:37 going to shut them Do them down.
10:32:39 Well, they are not shutting the bars down.
10:32:41 In 2003 they said these same decibel levels like you have
10:32:45 before you today are going to shut them down.
10:32:49 The bars are still here.
10:32:50 We are still working with them, you know.
10:32:57 One off another, we have been working with all of them
10:33:00 because ultimately, I don't think there is, you know -- we
10:33:18 are not actually seeing that.
10:33:20 What we are seeing is the ordinance and the levels are in
10:33:23 fact working to ultimately achieve compliance.
10:33:28 That's the goal that we have been working with.
10:33:32 You heard previously, the huge issue that you hear about
10:33:38 now.
10:33:43 In '99, Siebein testified flat out said one of his
10:33:48 recommendations is that bars try to achieve compliance by
10:33:53 doing sound mitigation, and what we see is that
10:33:56 recommendation in '99 when it's carried out in practice has
10:34:00 worked in helping everybody achieve compliance at a level
10:34:04 that is satisfactory, whether it's work on noise mitigation,
10:34:13 whether it's Jackson that worked on noise mitigation.
10:34:16 When we had these problems normally with bars, so that's one
10:34:25 of my things that I would just point out to you.
10:34:27 Noise ordinance is a puzzle.
10:34:33 What you see from 99 going forward, and estimation we take
10:34:37 pieces of the puzzle and put in a different piece and try
10:34:41 that for a while and see if that works and after a few years
10:34:44 we may have to come back and revisit it.
10:34:46 The history is the there, and it repeats itself, and the
10:34:50 same complaints have been brought forth to you before, are
10:34:54 being brought forth again today, are going to be brought
10:34:57 forth again in several years.
10:34:58 We don't pretend that any ordinance is going to solve the
10:35:03 noise problems.
10:35:04 What of we say is that it's a puzzle.
10:35:06 We'll continue to try to fix complaints that come about,
10:35:12 maybe try different pieces of the puzzle, till we get the
10:35:15 right balance.
10:35:16 So that's where I think, you know, we really are.
10:35:20 I think I would like to address now, then again if needed a
10:35:25 few other things that I have seen that are going to be, I
10:35:29 anticipate, heard by you, which is the way the measurement
10:35:35 is, how long a period the measurement is taking.
10:35:40 I know Mr. Bentley is proposing a much, much longer
10:35:46 measurement.
10:35:48 We, in 99, when we created this, it was, you know, 10 to 20
10:35:54 second measurement with an average.
10:35:56 Based on recommendations we have in fact increased it to a
10:36:00 30 second average.
10:36:01 That was based on a noise consultant and based on EPA
10:36:09 consultant, based on other discussions based with other
10:36:12 individuals.
10:36:12 So we followed that recommendation.
10:36:14 We brought forth a new ordinance, already been increased.
10:36:18 Now, ten minute or whatever additional period of time that
10:36:22 might be proposed, we have to consider the fact that EPC has
10:36:31 one person.
10:36:32 EPC cannot respond to 6,000 noise complaints in the City of
10:36:35 Tampa.
10:36:36 Therefore we had to always discuss how in the world
10:36:38 enforcement is going to happen, and in '99 talked about code
10:36:42 enforcement officers or police officers.
10:36:44 In '99 it was discussed that code enforcement officers
10:36:49 weren't the best ones to respond because of safety issues.
10:36:52 When they were walking up and down the streets of Ybor,
10:36:56 there were serious safety issues, many of them assaulted or
10:37:01 threatened.
10:37:02 So TPD came forward and said we recommend TPD enforcement.
10:37:06 That's where we started seeing TPD enforcing noise
10:37:09 ordinances in the City of Tampa.
10:37:10 And that's, you know, all reflected in the transcript.
10:37:14 So --
10:37:24 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm sorry.
10:37:26 You know, I am wondering, though, if we took a stop for a
10:37:31 second.
10:37:31 I'm wondering if rather than proactively addressing what you
10:37:34 are anticipating or going to come with a proposal, maybe
10:37:38 we'll hear some of the presentations and then you can come
10:37:41 back and actually answer some of the items that are brought
10:37:45 up.
10:37:47 Does that work out all right?
10:37:50 >>Michael Schmid: Absolutely.
10:37:51 Ultimately, I would just say that the city, obviously it's
10:37:56 up to City Council.
10:37:57 I'm just here trying to address any issues.
10:37:59 So I think that's a very good point.
10:38:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Oh, the expert is here?
10:38:17 I can address him.
10:38:19 Maybe he will just tell us.
10:38:20 >>HARRY COHEN: So we are going to hear a couple of brief
10:38:23 presentations and then we'll bring you back up and ask
10:38:26 questions.
10:38:26 >>Michael Schmid: And then would you prefer, chairman, that
10:38:29 we go ahead and address 6-B?
10:38:32 I think we can get legislators and law enforcement to talk
10:38:36 about that.
10:38:37 >>HARRY COHEN: I do believe that was Mr. Reddick's motion
10:38:39 and perhaps we'll get that out of the way and then go back
10:38:42 to 6-A if that's all right.
10:38:44 >>Michael Schmid: Thank you.
10:38:47 And one who works with the city will address some questions.
10:38:55 >>HARRY COHEN: This is the question of the noise
10:38:57 enforcement officer?
10:38:58 >> Correct.
10:38:58 Simone Savino, legal staff, concerning the noise control
10:39:01 officer --
10:39:07 >> I'm sorry, could you clarify your name again for the
10:39:08 clerk?
10:39:09 >> Simone Savino.
10:39:12 >> Thank you.
10:39:13 >> Okay.
10:39:15 So to start, the research just began with an overview of all
10:39:20 of the municipalities, and then of course some counties
10:39:24 within the state that have noise control officers codify
10:39:28 that language in their code and have a designated position
10:39:33 that speaks to this role.
10:39:36 So you can see the blue cities, the ones I called to
10:39:40 individually, spoke to on the phone, as well as I use Miami
10:39:44 Beach as kind of a control city.
10:39:46 They do not have a noise control officer in their code.
10:39:49 But they function quite effectively with their noise
10:39:53 ordinance.
10:39:54 So the three are the ones that I called and spoke with that
10:39:59 are highlighted.
10:40:00 This is the provision language within each of the cities.
10:40:05 You can see that when they define noise control officer, it
10:40:08 speaks to environmental inspectors, building and zoning
10:40:11 inspectors, and code enforcement officers, as well as sworn
10:40:17 law enforcement officers.
10:40:20 And then of course Miami Beach.
10:40:30 My next question in the survey was this letter of the NCO,
10:40:34 noise control officer, was a sworn law enforcement officer,
10:40:38 unsworn, code officer or both?
10:40:41 You can see some utilize both.
10:40:43 And then as far as Miami Beach, just sworn law enforcement
10:40:47 officers.
10:40:48 Miami Beach uses their code enforcement officers.
10:40:52 Because I think this is kind of a key aspect, you can see
10:41:05 that the ones both code enforcement officers as well as law
10:41:09 enforcement officers, they kind of have a split between
10:41:13 daytime officers and weekends.
10:41:15 And then Miami Beach, who has code compliance officer, they
10:41:20 work 24 hours a day and they are the ones who kind of get
10:41:23 out and respond to all of the noise complaints.
10:41:27 Within each of these cities, their codes are different.
10:41:35 But I believe this information will provide with you a good
10:41:40 overview of how they are functioning with this rule.
10:41:44 If you have any questions I will be happy to answer.
10:41:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: You just provided the layout.
10:41:54 What are you recommendation.
10:41:56 >> I have just done research. So as far as --
10:42:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: You did the research.
10:42:05 Who is there to make a recommendation?
10:42:07 >>Michael Schmid: I think we would have Mr. Slater and the
10:42:22 captain testify about their own departments and what their
10:42:24 thoughts are and then it would be up to City Council to
10:42:26 decide.
10:42:27 >>JAKE SLATER: City of Tampa neighborhood outreach.
10:42:37 Administrator.
10:42:38 Just as a historical background, code enforcement was
10:42:41 involved with the noise enforcement back in the 1990s,
10:42:44 back when Ybor City first actually started its large type of
10:42:51 entertainment venue.
10:42:53 We turned it over to Tampa PD back in 2003, 2004, maybe
10:43:00 because we were not set up to do it 24 hours a day seven
10:43:04 days a week.
10:43:05 Plus also we were concerned about the dangers.
10:43:10 We are not armed.
10:43:11 We don't have any type of training with regards to safety
10:43:14 issues.
10:43:17 Transportation issues.
10:43:18 And we did have several officers out there threatened.
10:43:21 So back in 2003, it was actually turned over to the PD.
10:43:26 I would actually strongly not endorse code enforcement being
10:43:31 involved in the noise enforcement process now.
10:43:36 It is not set up for it.
10:43:37 We don't have the manpower.
10:43:38 We handle about 12,000 new code enforcement cases a year.
10:43:42 We do about 26,000 type of inspections, about 45 inspectors.
10:43:50 It's just not practical to have us involved with the noise
10:43:53 enforcement currently as it is now with all of our emphasis,
10:44:00 trash and debris, that would take away from our overall
10:44:03 mission.
10:44:05 I'll be happy to answer any other questions about that.
10:44:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Any questions?
10:44:14 >>JAKE SLATER: Thank you, council.
10:44:16 >> Good morning everybody.
10:44:21 Gary moss, Tampa police.
10:44:24 I'm here to talk about a noise control officer.
10:44:29 I stated before, and a shotgun blast, shown in the Power
10:44:36 Point, over 5,000 calls a year.
10:44:38 Researching back to 2013 to 2016 currently.
10:44:42 The police department is really not at this point set up to
10:44:46 have an individual or individuals as noise control officers.
10:44:52 We have certain areas that have districts, and those
10:44:54 officers handle those complaints as they come in.
10:44:57 When I did my research to find out what it would cost even
10:45:00 if we just had one or multiple officers, a brand new officer
10:45:07 at today's salary, not including any benefits and all, makes
10:45:11 around $51,000 a year.
10:45:13 That's without benefits.
10:45:14 It shows a five year officer right around 60-K.
10:45:19 So I did some additional research and looked into the
10:45:24 actually has Community Redevelopment Agency, CRA funding, if
10:45:31 they have an officer, an environmental officer that deals
10:45:34 with strictly solid waste, illegal dumping.
10:45:37 And figure out what it would cost the CRA, and if we could
10:45:42 even manage that.
10:45:43 I did a little research in that area there.
10:45:46 A corporal or detective has an obligation to outfit that
10:45:50 officer with benefits, vehicle, uniforms, the whole nine
10:45:53 yards, pay for that, $128,000 a year, to have one particular
10:45:58 officer in that CRA.
10:46:00 So I did some additional research and find out we only have
10:46:03 nine CRAs in Tampa.
10:46:05 The area that has generally been our biggest concern is
10:46:10 SoHo.
10:46:10 I have broken down the CRAs and SoHo doesn't even have a
10:46:16 CRA.
10:46:16 So there would be no funding -- we couldn't even provide an
10:46:22 officer, don't even have one.
10:46:26 But that was my basis of that.
10:46:28 So basically, I'm waiting to hear what we are going to do,
10:46:35 how City Council moves forward, and then we will go forward,
10:46:39 and how we train officers to either, you know, we go with
10:46:46 the decibel meters or we do the 100-foot.
10:46:49 But at this point it's await and see for us.
10:46:52 But it's not feasible at this point for us to take three or
10:46:56 four or five officers, whatever I can do, and make them
10:46:59 noise control officers at this point.
10:47:04 And if there's any questions.
10:47:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chair, in that case --
10:47:15 >>HARRY COHEN: Discussion on that particular item and I
10:47:18 think we are going to move back to item A.
10:47:20 I know that Mr. Bentley has a presentation to give us.
10:47:26 Perhaps Mr. Michelini is first.
10:47:28 I want to make everyone aware of the time.
10:47:30 It is a quarter of eleven.
10:47:32 There are council members that have 12:00 appointments.
10:47:34 So let's try to move it expeditiously.
10:47:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I have provided you copies of what I am
10:47:41 going to present so if I don't get through all of them at
10:47:44 least you will have a copy for the record.
10:47:45 There's a couple of things.
10:47:47 Steve Michelini here on behalf of a couple of different
10:47:50 commercial enterprises including the SoHo business alliance.
10:47:53 First of all, the information that you are relying in your
10:47:57 ordinance upon from 1990s needs to be updated.
10:48:00 Those are old standards, old development criteria, has
10:48:04 existed since then.
10:48:05 You have had a lot of new developments that followed the
10:48:07 city guidelines and city codes.
10:48:10 This is not about bars solely. This is about any indoor and
10:48:14 outdoor activity.
10:48:15 It applies city-wide. This is not just about SoHo.
10:48:19 It involves patios, sidewalk cafes, and anything else.
10:48:23 And when the EPC sets standards up they are setting up
10:48:27 countywide.
10:48:28 That's not just a suburban area but applying those same
10:48:31 standards to urban areas needs to be reexamined.
10:48:37 We are asking that you consider raising the decibel levels
10:48:40 in the SoHo district.
10:48:41 It's a defined area.
10:48:42 It has a development district with a legal description.
10:48:45 And it has specific development regulations that remit to
10:48:48 it.
10:48:49 We are asking that you mimic those regulations and allow the
10:48:52 downtown Ybor City and the SoHo district and the overlay
10:48:56 districts to remain the same.
10:48:59 SoHo is just the beginning.
10:49:00 You have other development districts that are coming along
10:49:02 shortly.
10:49:03 Tampa Heights, Seminole Heights, West Tampa.
10:49:06 They are now beginning to have their own development that
10:49:09 are going to experience the same kind of issues, the same
10:49:12 proximity problems between commercial and residential
10:49:14 properties.
10:49:16 We are asking that you take the noise measurements from
10:49:18 inside the structures of the complaints as opposed to at the
10:49:21 property line.
10:49:22 It's not fair to have a noise measurement be made at the
10:49:26 property line when the complainant is saying they are being
10:49:30 disturbed inside their home or inside their structure.
10:49:32 We are asking that you not allow open windows for people
10:49:36 that are complaining saying that they can't sleep or they
10:49:38 are being disturbed because their windows were open.
10:49:41 That's an unreasonable expectation.
10:49:43 We are asking that you establish a chronic call program to
10:49:47 weed out calls.
10:49:48 You have established in here a public nuisance board measure
10:49:52 that you are going to take a business and put their business
10:49:55 at risk based upon the call that they are receiving and the
10:49:59 issuance of citations.
10:50:01 If you have people calling with their sole purpose is to
10:50:03 create a record of complaint and one person is doing that,
10:50:07 that needs to be weeded out and controlled.
10:50:10 We are asking that you provide warnings for those nuisance
10:50:13 callers that continue to try to establish a record based
10:50:16 upon whether the business is open or not.
10:50:18 We have had a number of occasions when businesses have been
10:50:23 called and complained about when they are not even open.
10:50:27 We ask that you remove the plainly audible standard,
10:50:30 increase the number of citations from the three to five.
10:50:34 Establish a long-term working committee so that you can look
10:50:38 at the long-term implications of the ordinance and make
10:50:41 revisions as necessary.
10:50:42 Address the sound transfers that are climatic and
10:50:46 atmospherically controlled.
10:50:48 Those things that are making noise bounce along the
10:50:51 waterfront, up and down the river.
10:50:53 (Bell sounds)
10:50:54 Can I have a couple more minutes?
10:50:56 >> Sure.
10:50:57 >> And I am going through these very quickly buff the whole
10:51:00 copy there.
10:51:02 To address these atmospheric conditions.
10:51:05 There's no provisions in the code as adopted currently for
10:51:07 that.
10:51:08 Establish a certified training program to the law
10:51:10 enforcement officers that are going to be enforcing this.
10:51:13 And in the interim, while we are still discussing changes to
10:51:16 the code, to abate this program and hold it so that it is
10:51:21 not being enforced currently until we resolve the issues
10:51:25 before council, and what exactly you want.
10:51:29 The city attorney's office has already referenced to that to
10:51:32 you a few minutes ago.
10:51:33 And remove the Nuisance Abatement Board with penalties.
10:51:36 This is an unreasonable penalty for a business, to borrow
10:51:40 money to establish a business and to operate it, and now you
10:51:43 put them at risk with their mortgages or whatever else.
10:51:45 If the value of their business is diminished you are also
10:51:50 attacking them financially.
10:51:51 Provide for an ambient background noise check, because right
10:51:56 now your ambient noise levels as measured by the sound
10:51:59 experts already exceed your 55 decibels.
10:52:03 And to hold the businesses to a designation bell rating that
10:52:06 is already in excess of that.
10:52:09 I would ask that you consider these in your evaluation, and
10:52:12 you have, as I said, the written documents before you.
10:52:16 Thank you for your indulgence.
10:52:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Miranda.
10:52:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Captain, I have a couple of questions.
10:52:23 >> Of me, sir?
10:52:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
10:52:27 How many -- you have been patrolling the area with your
10:52:32 unit.
10:52:32 >> Yes, sir.
10:52:33 >> How many violations have you given out, if any?
10:52:36 >> In 2016 I believe we have only given out four for SoHo.
10:52:41 >> Yes, we are speaking about SoHo.
10:52:43 >> For 2015, do you want 2015, sir?
10:52:48 Give me just one second.
10:52:49 Give me one second.
10:52:55 Noise violation and for businesses we have given out four.
10:53:05 >> That's issued.
10:53:12 What were the results?
10:53:13 Were they worked out?
10:53:14 >> You would have to ask Mr. Schmid what happened with
10:53:18 those.
10:53:19 That I can't answer.
10:53:19 >>Michael Schmid: 13 violations in 2015.
10:53:37 >> 13 in 2015.
10:53:41 >> So there has been a dramatic improvement even though the
10:53:44 year is not finished.
10:53:45 >> Correct, sir.
10:53:47 2016, we have issued three citations in 2016 so far.
10:53:54 Compared to the 13 in 2015.
10:53:56 >>Michael Schmid: Typically what will happen is once a
10:54:02 citation is issued it can either be paid, or contested in
10:54:06 county court, if we go to county court, sometimes they are
10:54:08 resolved.
10:54:11 Or they go to a hearing.
10:54:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me interrupt you.
10:54:15 I apologize but I know we are under time constraint.
10:54:18 I am only asking the captain about the ones that were handed
10:54:21 out.
10:54:22 What happened to those three?
10:54:25 >>Michael Schmid: I don't have it direct right in front of
10:54:28 me.
10:54:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Did they go to court on one of them?
10:54:31 >>Michael Schmid: The majority of those that are issued get
10:54:34 wording out, resolved.
10:54:36 >> Do you know of any that go to court?
10:54:39 >>Michael Schmid: They might go to court but usually what
10:54:41 happens is we work on trying to resolve it and that's what
10:54:44 happened at Jackson's.
10:54:45 That's what happened --
10:54:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And any one that's gone to court, how
10:54:49 many have been resolved and how many actually had a trial?
10:54:52 >>Michael Schmid: I remember -- honestly, I think we went
10:54:58 to trail on one.
10:54:59 All the rest had gotten resolved one way or another or
10:55:02 worked out pretty much.
10:55:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: One in 15?
10:55:09 >>Michael Schmid: I would say that one was in 2014.
10:55:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:55:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So we had none in 15 or 16 go to trial
10:55:18 and everything has been resolved amicably.
10:55:22 >>Michael Schmid: It's been resolved, correct.
10:55:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:55:26 >>HARRY COHEN: I believe we are going to hear from
10:55:38 Mr. Bentley?
10:55:40 And just to reiterate we are going to try to move along as
10:55:44 expeditiously as possible.
10:55:45 Thank you.
10:55:46 >>MARK BENTLEY: I represent the DRG restaurant group
10:56:06 regarding the city's noise ordinance fact enacted on August
10:56:09 25th.
10:56:09 Before I get into the presentation, probably the most
10:56:12 important part of our presentation are the acoustics experts
10:56:18 out of Alachua, a renowned expert and actually worked with
10:56:23 the EPC in the Clear Channel amphitheater litigation.
10:56:26 And after the litigation was concluded actually trained EPC
10:56:31 in protocols, with their equipment and things like that.
10:56:36 I am going to try to be as brief as I can, Mr. Cohen.
10:56:39 But just a couple of comments up front.
10:56:45 Mr. Schmid suggested that the noise ordinance works.
10:56:48 Then why are you getting complaints, obviously not working?
10:56:52 Secondarily, Mr. Schmid might want to consider giving up the
10:56:56 practice of law as apparently he's clairvoyant because he
10:56:59 knows what I am going to tell you before I get up here.
10:57:04 In any event going back to 1999, I was chairman of the
10:57:08 city's noise committee at that point in time, and a lot of
10:57:11 the recommendations actually were a mirror image of what EPC
10:57:15 already had.
10:57:16 There wasn't any rhyme or reason but for the fact to be
10:57:18 consistent with EPC.
10:57:20 Let's talk about SoHo, environmental areas surrounded by
10:57:26 residential properties.
10:57:27 A lot of unusual characteristics including refraction or
10:57:30 reflection from buildings into the neighborhood.
10:57:34 Excluding Ybor, downtown, Channelside, there are now four
10:57:37 different noise levels that a business must adhere to.
10:57:41 These would be the 55, 55 after 10:00, plainly audible from
10:57:48 100 feet which is instantaneous.
10:57:50 If the officer can hear it for one second that would be a
10:57:53 violation.
10:57:54 And also the 55-65 measured over a period of 30 seconds.
10:57:59 Now let's contrasted that with EPC and their own noise rule.
10:58:04 Jurisdiction over the entire city but for a couple of
10:58:07 exceptions.
10:58:08 And what they have in different distances they measure over
10:58:12 a ten minute period, things like that.
10:58:15 So I would say this to council.
10:58:18 If one of my clients asked your staff which one of these
10:58:21 standards you consider the most restrictive, I can almost
10:58:25 guarantee you that they don't know.
10:58:28 And mainly audible from 100 feet is the most restrictive and
10:58:35 may possibly be true depending upon the circumstances, the
10:58:38 sensitivity of officers' hearing, ambient sound and the
10:58:43 like.
10:58:43 Also, looking at this from a businessman's perspective.
10:58:48 How do you design your building or pat owe to be plainly
10:58:52 audible, Ybor, Channelside, downtown, the city ordinance
10:58:56 standard, target for your property line.
10:58:59 You know as a business owner what the limits are and can
10:59:01 design accordingly and even have the ability to
10:59:03 self-regulate your regulation system.
10:59:06 It has a noise meter on-site.
10:59:08 You go over 85 you are in violation and you turn it down.
10:59:11 However, in SoHo, Seminole Heights, you don't have the
10:59:15 benefit of that.
10:59:17 It's a moving target.
10:59:19 I'll talk about this in a second.
10:59:22 We retained a noise expert with the update of this noise
10:59:25 ordinance in August.
10:59:26 It found the three areas that the expert studied, two of the
10:59:31 three, Seminole Heights and SoHo, didn't meat either decibel
10:59:36 limits in the city's ordinance nor the plainly audible.
10:59:39 That's pretty amazing.
10:59:40 Two of the three activity centers in the city, but then the
10:59:44 city goes ahead and immediately puts these areas in
10:59:46 violation in a noise ordinance.
10:59:50 So plainly audible is not realistic, simply subjective and
10:59:54 completely one sided against the business community.
10:59:58 The genesis of plainly audible, Mr. Reddick, you probably
11:00:02 know this better than anybody, there are a lot of complaints
11:00:04 from vehicles, and that's where it actually came from.
11:00:09 That's when the city first enacted plainly audible and then
11:00:12 weighed into using that as a standard for stationery source.
11:00:16 So just because something might work well and be legal for
11:00:19 detecting something from a motor vehicle it's really not
11:00:24 practical and realistic for measuring a stationery source.
11:00:30 Because the city -- this is interesting -- that every area
11:00:33 of the city that has objective decibel standards, okay, that
11:00:36 three of these areas downtown, Ybor and Channelside, that's
11:00:40 all they have.
11:00:41 There's no subjective standard.
11:00:43 DPC doesn't even have subjective standards.
11:00:47 The court ruled it unconstitutional.
11:00:49 But if the city has decibel standards, one has to assume
11:00:53 that the city's competent to do that, and is properly
11:00:56 trained, that has meters that meet industry standard, that
11:00:59 they can calibrate the meters, has in fact calibrated and
11:01:03 knows how to use them, has standard protocols in place, and
11:01:07 adjust data to account for ambient and ultimately prosecute
11:01:10 the case.
11:01:11 And that's where the rubber meets the road.
11:01:13 If the city isn't qualified to do this the regulatory scheme
11:01:17 breaks down and the ordinance is meaningless. So based on
11:01:19 what the police officer and your enforcement people said,
11:01:23 there is no regulatory scheme in place.
11:01:28 Not withstanding that it has different numbers in different
11:01:30 parts of the city.
11:01:32 In a city like Tampa, progressive city in 2016, that's
11:01:35 pretty remarkable.
11:01:38 So let's talk about plainly audible.
11:01:41 Why is that the primary basis for analyzing sound in the
11:01:45 city in initiating citations? It's based on lack of
11:01:51 confidence, no meters, no protocols, just an officer who
11:01:54 could have good or bad hearing using his designation
11:01:57 creation to determine whether a sound is plainly audible
11:02:00 from 100 feet for one or two seconds.
11:02:03 Progressive cities don't do this nor does the EPC which
11:02:06 eliminated their standards in 2004.
11:02:09 So if these other progressive cities can enforce a
11:02:12 progressive ordinance then why can't Tampa in 2018? So
11:02:16 let's come up.
11:02:17 I was involved in a lot of stuff.
11:02:19 You heard that from Mr. Schmid.
11:02:21 But in 2013, how do we come up with the plainly audible at
11:02:24 100 feet?
11:02:25 And this is very interesting.
11:02:27 I went back and looked at the transcripts.
11:02:29 The city attorney advised you in March 2013 that 100 feet
11:02:33 was defensible, and thought that, quote, looking at some of
11:02:37 these decibel readings versus what someone can hear at a
11:02:42 hundred feet that's close to your decibel level at 100 feet
11:02:45 so would be consistent.
11:02:46 So this is how the city is regulating businesses because a
11:02:52 staff member is fairly close and fairly consistent. This
11:02:55 person had absolutely no expertise in acoustics and implying
11:03:00 that 100 use is the same decibel reading at or about 55 DPA.
11:03:08 So actually when the mainly audible can actually be 15 to 20
11:03:12 DB less than 55.
11:03:14 Backing up a second, Ybor City, these other two areas with
11:03:19 the higher decibels, allows sound measured logo
11:03:25 rhythmically.
11:03:27 So actually the 55 is one sixth the sound level of the 85.
11:03:33 So in SoHo they are bound to level one fifth the same level
11:03:40 as Ybor City, Channelside, downtown, which is pretty
11:03:43 remarkable.
11:03:43 I want to talk about the city's noise expert and what you
11:03:46 did on August 25th.
11:03:48 It appears that the city relied heavily op on the opinion of
11:03:51 Mr. Michael keen in adopting this ordinance, and I have
11:03:54 given you a copy from part of the ordinance.
11:03:57 If you look at the ordinance, a major misstatement in the
11:04:01 ordinance, actually in the whereas section, where keen is
11:04:05 mentioned twice that I have highlighted, this states that
11:04:08 the city considered testimony, received a report from
11:04:11 acoustic consultant Michael Keene addressing the need for
11:04:14 plainly audible standard in conjunction with the decibel
11:04:17 standard, whereby Keene recommended based on studies found
11:04:20 that the neighborhood, South Howard, East Tampa, Seminole
11:04:23 Heights, that the city should prohibit sound which is mainly
11:04:26 audible at 100 feet or more, that such sound would be
11:04:30 unreasonably excessive.
11:04:40 It couldn't be further from the truth if Mr. Keene never
11:04:47 addressed audible and didn't conclude that the city should
11:04:50 further the sound in excess of 100 feet, but look at page 3
11:04:54 of his report.
11:04:57 He says based on the findings of his study, neither
11:05:00 significant increase nor significant decrease of 100-foot
11:05:04 distance is recommended.
11:05:05 He didn't say it should be prohibited.
11:05:08 His report also validates on page 3 --
11:05:12 And it's a very brief report, three pages -- the city
11:05:15 standards are unrealistic and not working.
11:05:18 (Bell sounds)
11:05:19 He said SoHo, when Seminole Heights areas were significantly
11:05:22 in excess of plainly audible in decibel standard as I
11:05:25 mentioned.
11:05:26 So having been provided with this information, why would the
11:05:28 city enact an ordinance that puts two activity centers
11:05:33 immediately in violation instead of coming up with a
11:05:35 reasonable sound level solution?
11:05:38 This obviously makes no sense.
11:05:39 And what did you think would happen to these areas?
11:05:43 Doing this type of thing along with your attorney, expert
11:05:47 finding in the ordinance to support the ordinance does
11:05:49 nothing to support it at all.
11:05:50 (Bell sounds)
11:05:54 To the contrary it makes it extremely suspect.
11:05:56 There's a third and fourth.
11:05:58 I don't have much time and I won't get into it.
11:06:01 As I mentioned, EPC doesn't have a mainly audible standard.
11:06:05 Used to have something very similar but our circuit court
11:06:08 struck it as Constitutionally vague and overly broad, and
11:06:13 gives consideration for commercial receiver.
11:06:15 Okay?
11:06:17 There's a higher level of a bar chasing a bar, okay.
11:06:21 Not the same as a bar facing a residence.
11:06:23 Because the EPC takes that into account, actually the
11:06:27 decibels for that is 65 versus 55.
11:06:30 Let's talk about this Nuisance Abatement Board and then I'll
11:06:32 wrap it up, Mr. Cohen, and turn it over.
11:06:38 As I mentioned, what you did on August 25th, you really
11:06:43 clean up the enforcement aspect, some confusion, several
11:06:47 criminal things, whether there's jail time, or, you know, a
11:06:54 fine associated with that.
11:06:55 And that was cleaned up.
11:06:56 And then this was put in there.
11:06:58 And I think Mr. Michelini alluded to it.
11:07:01 The ooh Nuisance Abatement Board is a remedy.
11:07:04 There are numerous methods to enforce the conduct of bars
11:07:07 and restaurants, but the city thinks for some reason it now
11:07:10 needs to subject them to closing of a business to the
11:07:13 Nuisance Abatement Board.
11:07:14 If this board deals with matters involving felonies such as
11:07:18 drug manufacturing, street gangs, prostitution and the like,
11:07:22 and not civil infractions like noise.
11:07:24 You go down this punch list in that orthopedics.
11:07:27 The only one that's civil infraction is a noise violation.
11:07:34 The arrows that the city has in its quiver indirectly or
11:07:38 directly are to enforce the noise ordinance.
11:07:40 Civil citation, injunction, nuisance statute by the city or
11:07:44 citizens, chapter 27, failure to complying with zoning
11:07:47 condition, large venues have to be a sound control plan,
11:07:51 code enforcement, chapter 27 allows revocation of a wet
11:07:54 zoning for failure to comply with the noise ordinance.
11:07:57 Chapter 27 allows revocation of a wet zoning for maintaining
11:08:00 a nuisance as defined in your code or common law.
11:08:04 Chapter 561 Florida statute allows revocation of a liquor
11:08:07 license for violation of a local ordinance.
11:08:10 So think of this.
11:08:10 If there's a disgruntled neighbor that wants to be
11:08:14 vindictive all it now needs to be do is file two verified
11:08:17 complaints, then you have to hire a lawyer and the civil
11:08:20 infraction of a noise ordinance shouldn't even be exposed to
11:08:23 that type of treatment and places the owners at enormous
11:08:27 risk.
11:08:28 During this period of attempting to come up with a
11:08:29 reasonable solution, City Council did not attempt to
11:08:33 prosecute any alleged offender through the nuisance
11:08:36 abatement board and enforce the ordinance with not the
11:08:42 plainly audible standard.
11:08:43 The next speaker is Dr. Robert Lilkendey, has a masters of
11:08:52 degree in acoustics from UF, and testified in trial on
11:08:56 behalf of the Hillsborough County Clear Channel case as I
11:09:00 mentioned, after the case was over he trained EPC on how to
11:09:03 select their user equipment and establish protocols and so
11:09:06 on.
11:09:06 Rob has been recognized as an expert in acoustics in
11:09:11 proceedings throughout the State of Florida.
11:09:12 Thank you.
11:09:15 Rob?
11:09:23 >> Would you bring up the Power Point, please?
11:09:25 >>HARRY COHEN: We are going to hear from them.
11:09:35 And then we are also going to hear from them and then have
11:09:39 public comment.
11:10:03 It's my understanding this workshop was being held to
11:10:05 discuss possible modifications to the quantitative sound
11:10:07 level limits in the noise ordinance, DBA, DBC. I am not
11:10:14 here to propose any new standard.
11:10:15 I just want to elaborate on some of the concerns we have.
11:10:15 There is a lot of uncertainty and fear frankly on the part
11:10:20 of our clients of how the noise ordinance will affect their
11:10:23 business.
11:10:26 First I want to review the noise regulations.
11:10:30 I put the requirements for the special districts up here for
11:10:33 reference, Ybor and so on.
11:10:35 I want to focus on all other areas in which SoHo would fall.
11:10:39 According to the new noise ordinance, it says must comply
11:10:49 with the following limits.
11:10:50 First sound level over 30 second-period, 65 DBA or 65 DBC
11:10:58 during daytime and 55 DBA and 65 DBC at night. 30 second
11:11:02 average at the receiving property line.
11:11:05 I have seen a lot of noise ordinances in my 20 years and I
11:11:08 can't recall any others that do not have separate
11:11:11 requirements for commercial and residential and even
11:11:12 sometimes industrial and agricultural.
11:11:15 It's interesting that they all have the same noise
11:11:17 requirements.
11:11:19 Also the second one down, sound that is considered loud and
11:11:25 raucous anytime of day is a violation.
11:11:27 One of the criteria that can be used to define if a sound is
11:11:31 loud and raucous is simply if it's plainly audible at the
11:11:34 receiving property line of the person making the complaint.
11:11:36 This means that if the complainant on any type of property
11:11:39 can hear any type of sound emanating from any other type of
11:11:43 property, any time of day, then that can be used as evidence
11:11:46 that the sound is loud and raucous and therefore a violation
11:11:49 of the ordinance.
11:11:51 Finally, there's also what we call plainly audible standard
11:11:54 that applies to 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. that says it's prima facie
11:12:00 evidence that the sound is loud and raucous and therefore in
11:12:03 violation, if it is plainly audible to the property owner
11:12:08 which is 100 feet or more from the property line of the
11:12:10 source of the sound.
11:12:12 As a consultant, I have a hard time understanding how to
11:12:16 interpret this.
11:12:16 Does that mean all of the receiving property line has to be
11:12:19 more than 100 feet from the source?
11:12:22 Or just part of it?
11:12:24 For example, let's say you have a situation where you have a
11:12:28 source on the right, you have a receiving property right
11:12:31 next to it.
11:12:32 The property is only 80 feet wide.
11:12:34 So they share a property line.
11:12:37 So is that first receiver not subject to the plainly audible
11:12:42 standard and you only use the decibel standard because they
11:12:44 are not more than 100 feet from the source of the property
11:12:48 line?
11:12:53 Skip over them and go to the next receiver.
11:12:55 What if their property is 150 feet long?
11:13:00 Their closest receiving property line is less than 100 feet
11:13:03 because they share a common property line.
11:13:05 Does this mean they are still not eligible under the plainly
11:13:09 audible rule?
11:13:10 Or can part of their property line on the other side of the
11:13:13 house is more than 100 feet away from the source property
11:13:15 line, are they now eligible to use the plainly audible
11:13:19 standard?
11:13:19 If so, where is the point of enforcement?
11:13:22 Where is audibility determined?
11:13:25 It doesn't say you measure 100 feet away from the property
11:13:28 line.
11:13:28 It says you measure from the receiving property line which
11:13:31 is 100 feet or more from the source property line.
11:13:33 So anywhere on that site would be within the receiving
11:13:36 property line.
11:13:37 Somebody again that puts you right back near the source
11:13:40 property line.
11:13:44 What kind of noise mitigation is required to comply?
11:13:48 And this means some of the other issues that mark addressed
11:13:51 which refers to plainly audible standard has to do with how
11:13:56 long does the sound have to be audible to be a violation?
11:14:02 Presumably since no length of time is given could be a
11:14:07 violation of the noise ordinance.
11:14:08 Both the EPC and Tampa noise ordinance, averaging of sound
11:14:13 when updating the standard.
11:14:14 Back in 03 and 04 the DPC ruled one maximum sound level.
11:14:20 If you received the sound level for one second it was a
11:14:23 violation.
11:14:23 They changed that to a ten minute average.
11:14:25 They felt it would make the measurement of noise violation
11:14:29 more precise and therefore more enforceable.
11:14:31 The Tampa noise ordinance removed the 10 to 20 seconds to a
11:14:35 30 second average on advice of their consultant.
11:14:37 However the plainly audible standard is essentially the same
11:14:41 use standard, occurs not averaged over time.
11:14:47 So in terms of how loud one can play music with a plainly
11:14:51 audible standard -- so I have a draft up here.
11:14:57 On the bottom of the draft graph is time.
11:15:00 That's ten minutes.
11:15:00 I recorded ten minutes music outdoors. This is for another
11:15:04 project.
11:15:04 But I'll show you the data in a second.
11:15:06 The green line you see the 55 DBA noise ordinance.
11:15:13 Now assume there's an ambient of 50 DBA at the same time.
11:15:16 And the X axis is DB.
11:15:22 So if we were using EPC, it's really one data point over ten
11:15:28 minutes so just a flat line.
11:15:30 It looks like music but that's what it is.
11:15:32 So at 52 DBA, you would be below the noise ordinance and you
11:15:37 would be over the ambient so you have to lower it
11:15:40 theoretically a couple of DBs to get it below the ambient.
11:15:45 If you use the Tampa noise ordinance, the 30 second average,
11:15:49 will be a series of 30 seconds data points when sound is
11:15:55 averaged, each 30 seconds.
11:15:56 Each one of those red squares detect connected by lines.
11:16:00 Now it looks a little more like music, a little louder, a
11:16:03 little quieter, so on, so forth.
11:16:05 So the highest level you get in 30 seconds is 54 DB.
11:16:10 That's 55, still not a violation.
11:16:12 You have to reduce it maybe 4 DB theoretically to get
11:16:18 employee the ambient background sound level.
11:16:21 But in reality what you are hearing is something like this,
11:16:24 which is where this is measured every second and we actually
11:16:28 even hear -- faster than a second, but this will do for now.
11:16:32 Now you can really kind of make out that there's the break
11:16:37 in the middle, all the peaks and valleys, how you hear the
11:16:43 music.
11:16:43 And you can see now you are over the limit but you are not
11:16:46 measuring that way.
11:16:47 But your 16 DB over the background noise.
11:16:51 You have to actually lower the volume another 16 DB to get
11:16:54 it below background noise and hope not being considered
11:16:57 plainly audible.
11:16:58 So what does that do then if you have 54, now you are trying
11:17:04 to get down to what would essentially be a 38 DBA background
11:17:07 sound level using the 30 second average.
11:17:12 So it gets a little confusing, but the point is you have a
11:17:17 quantitative limit of 55, but in reality with plainly
11:17:21 audible and music, and ambient of 50, you might actually
11:17:25 have to get all the way down below 40.
11:17:28 And so in Ybor City, you have 85, 85.
11:17:33 Over here you have essentially 55 which could also be down
11:17:37 as low as 40.
11:17:39 And this also applies at commercial locations.
11:17:41 So you off one building, bar, restaurant, club, whatever, to
11:17:46 another, you would have to meet this level.
11:17:52 So in conclusion, the one-size-fits-all approach in Tampa is
11:17:58 not appropriate especially for SoHo, which may work in some
11:18:01 parts of Tampa is not appropriate in a place such as Howard
11:18:05 with no separate requirements for residential and commercial
11:18:09 for both the plainly audible standard and the numerical
11:18:12 standard.
11:18:12 How are commercial establishments supposed to direct their
11:18:14 sound away from nearby residences if the requirements are
11:18:17 just as strict on the commercial side of their property?
11:18:21 Two completely acoustical environment for the exact same
11:18:25 restrictions of the clearly needs more attention.
11:18:27 And the plainly audible standards is problematic.
11:18:31 It's confusing.
11:18:32 It seems arbitrarily determined.
11:18:34 And it's very strict compared to the quantitative standards,
11:18:37 and why even have quantitative standard if you are going to
11:18:39 have a plainly audible standard which is certainly more
11:18:42 strict?
11:18:42 So that's all that I have.
11:18:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
11:18:48 There are any questions or comments from council members
11:18:50 before we go back to the staff and also to the
11:18:53 representative and hear from the public?
11:18:57 Councilman?
11:18:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm curious, on this chart, the last one
11:19:01 you put up, where you had the 16 DB, what kind of volume are
11:19:11 you talking about at that level?
11:19:13 >> Well, that's a good question.
11:19:16 I was actually hoping to present you an audio presentation
11:19:19 where you could actually hear what 40 DBA sounds like in the
11:19:24 presence of music and background.
11:19:25 With all of that we would not be allowed to do that.
11:19:28 So we did not bring an audio presentation.
11:19:30 But the intention was a value to hear.
11:19:34 That it's really hard to describe in words and graphs what
11:19:36 60 DBA of music sounds like, or 70, without playing it for
11:19:42 you.
11:19:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So each increase by one increase it is
11:19:51 sound how much?
11:19:52 >> Actually, if I could have the presentation back up
11:19:56 possibly.
11:19:56 >>HARRY COHEN: It is up on our screen.
11:20:00 >> Okay.
11:20:07 No, I don't have the slide.
11:20:09 I was going to show you another graphic that kind of shows
11:20:12 that.
11:20:12 So every change of 5-decibels is considered a plainly
11:20:16 audible change in sound levels for most any person with
11:20:19 normal hearing sensitivity.
11:20:23 2 and 3, barely per receivable.
11:20:26 When you get to 10 DBs, that's considered a doubling of
11:20:29 the loudness.
11:20:31 Assuming the two sounds are similar.
11:20:34 The same kind of sound.
11:20:36 You turn the volume up 10 decibels you would hear that twice
11:20:39 as loud.
11:20:39 15, about three times louder.
11:20:41 20, four times louder and so on like that. It's frequency
11:20:45 dependent meaning not quite the same, a general rule of
11:20:51 thumb, to understand what human perception is and some of
11:20:55 the changes in decibel.
11:20:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So it increases every 5 decibels.
11:21:02 Okay.
11:21:02 So when you say two times out of three times louder, four
11:21:07 times louder, then where it began, let's say, 50.
11:21:12 If you go to 55 you are going to notice it.
11:21:14 >> Right.
11:21:15 >> You go to 60 you are going to notice that.
11:21:17 So when you have that graph up, and it went up 16 -- and
11:21:23 that's quite a jump.
11:21:25 You are sitting there, and then that's pretty loud.
11:21:29 >> But the point, if I could bring that back up, that graph,
11:21:43 all three of those are the same piece of music.
11:21:48 All three of those.
11:21:49 It's just how you measure.
11:21:50 So if there's no change in sound level there, it's just a
11:21:54 line that represents the sound in different ways, so this
11:21:58 first line represents it as a 10 minute average. This line
11:22:02 represents that music as a 30 second average.
11:22:04 This one represents more how you would hear it.
11:22:07 So with regard to plainly audible, the 55 DBA with this
11:22:15 piece of music here, but it would more than likely be
11:22:19 plainly audible and you would have to really turn it down.
11:22:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:22:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Any other questions from council members
11:22:28 before we move on to -- we do have some representatives here
11:22:32 from the EPC.
11:22:33 And we wanted to hear from them briefly before we go to
11:22:36 public comment.
11:22:37 >> Good morning.
11:22:52 You were asked to come in and talk a little bit about your
11:22:55 noise enforcement program, and also how the EPC views noise
11:23:00 as a public health and environmental issue.
11:23:03 And also talk to us a little bit about the 55-decibel limit
11:23:07 and what that means.
11:23:08 >> Okay.
11:23:10 Marvin Blount, EPC.
11:23:12 And we were here before you back in August to give a short
11:23:17 presentation on our program, and how we actually administer
11:23:20 it.
11:23:22 We actually receive delegations to enforce noise throughout
11:23:28 the entire Hillsborough County.
11:23:31 Again, our rule is numerical standard.
11:23:35 It has been already mentioned.
11:23:36 We do have a ten minute L.E.T. which is really an averaging
11:23:42 of ten minutes in the time frame that we monitor.
11:23:46 We cooperate very closely with law enforcement, both TPD and
11:23:51 Hillsborough County sheriff's office, and the 55-decibel
11:23:56 standard that you asked about was something that was brought
11:24:02 about by the federal Environmental Protection Agency as a
11:24:07 health and welfare standard.
11:24:10 And we basically use that standard in our rules at the
11:24:18 state.
11:24:20 And in addition to that, there are a number of other cities
11:24:27 that are similar to ours here in Tampa, and the state, that
11:24:33 adopt and use that same 65 -- I'm sorry, 60-decibel
11:24:37 standard, and 55-decibel standard at night, and welfare
11:24:46 standard as well.
11:24:47 Let me do say again that we absolutely need law enforcement
11:24:53 to have assist us no lot of these noise monitoring events
11:24:58 that we conduct, and with that I will answer any questions.
11:25:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions from council members?
11:25:10 Councilman Miranda.
11:25:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sir, the cities that had you mentioned
11:25:14 that have basically your same decibels that this ordinance
11:25:17 has, how has that worked out?
11:25:19 Do you have any knowledge of the workability of those
11:25:22 ordinances regarding the industry standards in that city?
11:25:25 >> I do not specifically.
11:25:27 I know that we did some research studies back in '08, '09,
11:25:33 when we were actually redoing our rules to determine that
11:25:38 there are other cities similar to the size of ours that use
11:25:41 that particular 55-65-decibel standard.
11:25:47 >> Have you and our staff ever had a conversation regarding
11:25:49 those cities?
11:25:50 >> Not specifically, no.
11:25:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:25:55 >>HARRY COHEN: One question from me.
11:25:59 There's been discussion about whether or not the 55-decibel
11:26:01 standard is appropriate.
11:26:07 Would it complicate EPCs enforcement actions if the city
11:26:11 had a different standard than the 55-decibel level that you
11:26:17 enforce?
11:26:17 >> I would have to answer that by saying I don't believe so,
11:26:23 because our regulation is what it is, the 55-decibel
11:26:27 standard.
11:26:28 And 60-decibel standard isn't in our rule but I would ask
11:26:36 our attorney.
11:26:38 >> Good morning, Councilman.
11:26:42 Rick Morrissey.
11:26:45 We are just always encouraging assistance between the city
11:26:49 and EPC so people understand the argument they understand
11:26:52 what decibel level to comply with.
11:26:54 So the best that we can keep efficiency it helps people to
11:26:58 understand what they need to comply with.
11:27:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We already have a difference.
11:27:05 We have Channelside, Ybor.
11:27:06 It is different.
11:27:07 It's not 55.
11:27:10 We set a different standard.
11:27:12 >> From our rules of enforcement, Ybor and two other
11:27:19 entertainment districts.
11:27:20 So we rely on Tampa to enforce those, but all of the city
11:27:28 and Hillsborough County is 65 DB.
11:27:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:27:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I refer to my attorney Mr. Reddick.
11:27:38 (Laughter).
11:27:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Nothing else from council members.
11:27:44 Now, Mr. Schmid, if you want to have a word and then we are
11:27:47 going to go to the public for public comment.
11:27:49 >>Michael Schmid: Does council have any questions?
11:28:03 How about that?
11:28:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:28:05 I just wanted in my mind to clear up the standard that were
11:28:08 spoken about regarding the enforcement of the noise level
11:28:13 ordinance.
11:28:15 And I asked the question to EPC, have you and your staff
11:28:19 ever had any conversation with anyone regarding those
11:28:24 cities?
11:28:24 Those cities were not mentioned.
11:28:26 I don't know which cities they are.
11:28:27 Do we know which cities they are that have the same
11:28:30 standards that this ordinance has?
11:28:32 And what are the areas of regulation in those cities?
11:28:37 What are the facts?
11:28:38 I mean, if we are doing something like this, I have got to
11:28:40 have some facts.
11:28:45 I'm sorry to start the question.
11:28:48 >>Michael Schmid: Do you want me to attempt to answer?
11:28:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone.
11:28:54 I don't know.
11:28:54 >>Michael Schmid: Again I would refer that.
11:29:00 There was substantial discussion about this and I do know
11:29:03 there have been studies by the World Health Organization.
11:29:06 This has been based on not only consultants that YCDC hired
11:29:11 but we came back in 2003 with the same consultant.
11:29:15 We also came and provided testimony about the 55 levels.
11:29:18 So this wasn't pulled out of thin air. This was --
11:29:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not saying it was pulled out of thin
11:29:25 air.
11:29:25 I'm asking inform mine and the come up's benefit, to find
11:29:28 out what the are results of those cities that were not
11:29:31 mentioned that have the same ordinance that we have, how is
11:29:35 the compliance working? How are the businesses working?
11:29:37 How is the unit working?
11:29:40 Is there -- I don't know.
11:29:42 >>Michael Schmid: I can say in general in studying noise
11:29:45 throughout numerous --
11:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm asking not in general, only in those
11:29:50 specific cities that were not mentioned, that were mentioned
11:29:53 by reference.
11:29:53 >>Michael Schmid: And the answer from me, I'm sorry, I do
11:29:57 not know.
11:29:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:29:59 >> Some of those cities included areas in the Washington,
11:30:07 D.C. area -- I'm sorry, Washington state, Georgia, I believe
11:30:13 some cities in California.
11:30:15 But let me do say this, that that study was conducted back
11:30:19 in 2008-2009, and it's possible that some of those
11:30:24 ordinances or standards may have changed since that time.
11:30:27 But just to name a few of those cities, those are some of
11:30:30 the cities that have 60 and 55-decibel standards.
11:30:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, in concert with you, could
11:30:40 we ask our staff to meet with EPC and find out what those
11:30:47 were and what the levels were from 2008 to 2009 to what they
11:30:50 are now, and if there's been any changes, whether it's been
11:30:53 the demographics of those changes so we can understand
11:30:57 what's going on?
11:30:58 >>HARRY COHEN: I think given this is a workshop and what we
11:31:02 ought to do is take the public comment, and then perhaps
11:31:05 council can come up with some action item to get us the
11:31:08 information that we need to start really getting to making
11:31:13 some decisions.
11:31:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:31:15 >>HARRY COHEN: If there are no more questions maybe we'll
11:31:18 do the public comment now and then go back to.
11:31:25 So we have three minutes per speaker.
11:31:27 Anyone that would like to speak, now is your opportunity.
11:31:30 And please state your name and address for the record.
11:31:33 And recognize that if you can take under three minute,
11:31:36 that's fine, too.
11:31:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, before we start, we are
11:31:40 going to break right at 12.
11:31:44 So we will be very tight.
11:31:45 >>HARRY COHEN: So it looks like we have -- let's go ahead
11:31:48 and start.
11:31:49 I think we'll be able to get through the people in the line.
11:31:53 Before 12.
11:31:54 But we are going to end it with the gentleman in the blue
11:31:56 jacket.
11:31:58 Okay.
11:31:58 >> Good a, honorable council.
11:32:00 My name is Jesse Gandy, 2804 shore reef drive, Tampa,
11:32:06 Florida here representing a select group of businesses along
11:32:08 Howard Avenue that actually retained Mr. Bentley and Mr.
11:32:15 Lilkendey to show the importance of the effect that this
11:32:21 could possibly have on us.
11:32:23 And all along the last week or so we met with council and we
11:32:26 met with attorney Schmid.
11:32:28 And I loved his analogy about the puzzle because it made
11:32:32 perfect sense to me.
11:32:33 But how I look at this, and I think a lot of the business
11:32:36 associates that I am here representing as well as the
11:32:39 others, is that this is like my four-year-old daughter's
11:32:43 puzzle, mixed up with my 8-year-old son's puzzle.
11:32:46 You can't make those pieces fit, because not everything
11:32:49 represents equitable and fair treatment where we have other
11:32:54 business districts, you know, an ordinance that was drafted
11:32:57 mostly in '99.
11:32:59 Things have changed over the last 18 years.
11:33:01 Ambient noise has changed.
11:33:03 Density has changed.
11:33:04 All the different things that affect sound.
11:33:06 And we really hired these people to educate us so we could
11:33:10 come here in good faith and try to propose things -- we are
11:33:15 not saying no noise ordinance.
11:33:17 We are saying we need something that's going to represent
11:33:19 everybody equitably.
11:33:22 And like Councilwoman Capin said, not everyone is going to
11:33:28 be happy when we leave here today.
11:33:29 But as long as we can get some type of fair treatment, and
11:33:33 at least have something that's reasonable, that we
11:33:36 understand how it's to be enforced, and that we can't just
11:33:39 lose our license based on an agenda of maybe a few neighbors
11:33:43 that really want to effect a business, because whatever
11:33:49 reason they don't agree with that person's business path.
11:33:52 So we really hope that you will listen to Mr. Bentley and
11:33:59 Mr. Lilkendey's representation here, and if there's any
11:34:03 questions, or if maybe a real big noise study is needed,
11:34:07 that we are happy to participate in the cost, in helping get
11:34:11 that done, so at least there's basis behind what we are
11:34:15 doing there.
11:34:17 Thank you.
11:34:17 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of council.
11:34:23 My name is Scott MacLaren, 3700 Bank of America Plaza here
11:34:28 on behalf of JDJ properties LLC, a property owner on South
11:34:32 Howard.
11:34:33 But this is not about South Howard. This is about the
11:34:35 entire city.
11:34:36 And the key that was mentioned earlier to any ordinance of
11:34:39 this type, especially one that affects first amendment
11:34:42 issues, such as a noise ordinance, is consistency city-wide.
11:34:48 I'm here to talk about the text of the ordinance and the
11:34:50 fairness of the ordinance.
11:34:52 And this ordinance needs to be consistent city-wide in order
11:34:55 to be constitutionally fair.
11:34:57 Otherwise, it's unfair and violates equal protection.
11:35:01 We have a number of commercial overlay districts in the
11:35:03 city.
11:35:04 There's Seminole Heights, SoHo, East Tampa, West Tampa,
11:35:08 Kennedy.
11:35:10 As written, this ordinance violates equal protection because
11:35:15 it treats legitimate businesses in those commercial
11:35:19 districts substantially different than it treats those in
11:35:23 selected areas.
11:35:26 Ybor, Channelside.
11:35:28 Also amusement parks.
11:35:30 So it treats legitimate businesses in East Tampa, West
11:35:34 Tampa, Kennedy, different than the legitimate businesses in
11:35:39 those other areas.
11:35:41 It's unfair.
11:35:42 The standards need to be the same in all districts and they
11:35:45 need to be raised to the same level that's applicable in
11:35:51 Ybor and the central business district, and for the
11:35:56 Channelside district.
11:36:00 The other issue is unconstitutionally vague on its face.
11:36:06 Mr. Lilkendey -- did I pronounce that correctly -- Lilkendey
11:36:12 pointed out that really I think there is no standard
11:36:14 especially in the areas of SoHo and the other commercial
11:36:20 overlay districts that are not exempted out from this third
11:36:24 unreasonably loud and raucous standard.
11:36:28 That standard is no standard at all.
11:36:31 The test under 14-154-C is to determine whether unreasonably
11:36:36 loud or raucous the following may be considered along with
11:36:41 other testimony or evidence.
11:36:43 So there's no objective criteria that do apply, and there's
11:36:48 no limit upon the criteria that might apply.
11:36:51 So subject to the whim and caprice of anyone enforcing the
11:36:56 ordinance.
11:36:57 May I have a few more minutes?
11:36:58 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm sorry, we have a large line of people.
11:37:01 >> Thank you.
11:37:01 >> Well, you have got another 20 second.
11:37:03 >> All right.
11:37:05 So it also violates first amendment.
11:37:09 And the thought that an alleged violation of this could be
11:37:14 governed by the Nuisance Abatement Board.
11:37:16 The board is set up to deal with crack houses, really,
11:37:19 really severe criminal violations, not situations such as
11:37:24 someone being a little bit too loud.
11:37:25 (Bell sounds)
11:37:26 Thank you for your time.
11:37:27 >> Good morning, council.
11:37:34 Elise Betsel, 100 south Ashley. Suite 2000.
11:37:39 Just very quickly, common sense kind of dictates that this
11:37:45 is a common sense issue. We know what's too loud.
11:37:48 What we would like to you do is look at the ordinance and
11:37:50 see how you can establish standards that actually work.
11:37:54 Councilman Miranda mentioned that there hasn't been a lot of
11:38:03 citations.
11:38:04 Our understanding is that because there was a question about
11:38:07 the constitutionally of the existing ordinance that there
11:38:11 wasn't enforcement of that going on, and that might be a
11:38:14 reason why the numbers, violations of citations are so low.
11:38:19 I represent Jackson Bar and Bistro which isn't in any of
11:38:21 these districts. It is sort of on a little island by
11:38:24 itself, but there's also Vicks on the River, Ulele's, the
11:38:29 New Armature Works, all of these coming up on the water, and
11:38:32 water carries sound, and so we are concerned that whatever
11:38:36 standard you put in will be exacerbated by that water.
11:38:39 So we would like you to think about the waterfront
11:38:43 properties.
11:38:44 That's why people come to Tampa.
11:38:46 They go to Tampa to go out.
11:38:48 They come to Tampa to walk around, to go to restaurants. I
11:38:52 live on Harbor Island. I walk up to Jackson's because of
11:38:55 the entertainment, because of the fact that I can go outside
11:38:58 and hear someone playing an acoustic guitar that is
11:39:02 amplified and have a beverage and dinner.
11:39:04 Yes, ma'am?
11:39:05 Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had a question.
11:39:09 I did want to quickly say we were one of the companies that
11:39:14 worked through a citation issue that cost us so far $100,000
11:39:17 to put in a new sound system and we are actually trying to
11:39:20 come up with new measurements for outdoor mitigating that
11:39:23 could cost another potential $250,000 to comply with the 55
11:39:27 decibels.
11:39:28 For a regular business that isn't as large and as successful
11:39:32 as Jackson's, there's just no way they could do whatever we
11:39:35 are trying to do and that really does cost a fortune for
11:39:38 mitigating things that we are talking about.
11:39:41 So I just ask you to take these things into consideration as
11:39:44 you consider the ordinance.
11:39:46 When you are looking at different jurisdictions, and the
11:39:51 city looks at other jurisdictions, look at places where they
11:39:54 are a tourist destination.
11:39:56 Pigeon Forge, Nashville, Tennessee.
11:40:01 If you look at those jurisdiction's noise ordinances they do
11:40:03 use 55 but they use it for residential zoned property.
11:40:07 Their levels for commercial properties are different.
11:40:09 The levels for industrial properties are different.
11:40:12 They recognize that how you are zoned dictates the type of
11:40:15 noise that you generate.
11:40:16 So we would ask you to look at a comprehensive city solution
11:40:19 and take those different uses in making your decision.
11:40:23 Thank you.
11:40:25 >> Good morning.
11:40:28 Bryan Shrader, 612 west Bay Street.
11:40:31 And I will probably be one of the few people commenting from
11:40:38 this side of the situation.
11:40:40 I'm an attorney.
11:40:40 I have been retained by a growing group of citizens and
11:40:43 residents in the south SoHo area, and some of them couldn't
11:40:50 attend because of work, some of them see retaliation that
11:40:53 they have seen in the past for expressing.
11:40:58 So I want to talk to be you about their point of view and
11:41:01 perspective.
11:41:02 When we talk about a couple hundred thousand dollars to talk
11:41:05 about mitigating sound for a business how much is the cost
11:41:08 tore a family to move away from a bar that moved into the
11:41:11 neighborhood for the last few years and wants to blast music
11:41:15 all night long?
11:41:16 The system of codes and ordinances that they have to comply
11:41:18 by are also complied with by other people.
11:41:22 And we want to avoid any political pressures, and we want
11:41:28 this to be a common sense evaluation.
11:41:33 And to convey to you my client's position I had to think
11:41:36 about what it would be like to live next to a noisy
11:41:39 neighbor.
11:41:39 After all, what is the relationship between neighbors?
11:41:43 And these are maybe unwilling neighbors, a bar, but they are
11:41:47 neighbors, and all my clients want are good neighbors.
11:41:50 Though don't want too put the bars out of business.
11:41:52 They don't want to get rid of them.
11:41:55 They just wanted them to be good neighbors, because the
11:41:59 nuisance moved to the neighborhood.
11:42:01 The neighborhood didn't grow around the business.
11:42:04 And that's the real difference here.
11:42:06 When the original statute and ordinance were talked about in
11:42:09 Ybor and Channelside were established, it wasn't that long
11:42:13 ago and SoHo wasn't exempted, and my guess is because
11:42:17 recently noise wasn't an issue for people there.
11:42:20 Well now it's become an issue.
11:42:22 And they are living with it every day.
11:42:25 They are asking for common sense application.
11:42:28 They shouldn't be forced to live in their homes or hide
11:42:31 behind closed windows.
11:42:33 They shouldn't be forced to hide indoors when they quantity
11:42:36 to enjoy the yard.
11:42:37 They should be allowed peaceful use of their property
11:42:39 without interference from outside sources.
11:42:45 Concerning the history -- and I am not a Tampa native, but
11:42:49 in my short time living here I have seen SoHo change.
11:42:52 It continues to change, and the residents just want
11:42:55 standards that are applicable, that are objective, that can
11:42:58 be easily applied to protect their rights so that they don't
11:43:02 continue to have to fight this fight over and over again
11:43:04 with uncertainty about what the rules will be in the future.
11:43:08 Decibel limit should be considered. Plainly audible should
11:43:12 be considered.
11:43:13 These are tools for common sense application of the law.
11:43:16 I ask that you consider your previous finding, the noise is
11:43:19 a serious threat to public health, safety and welfare.
11:43:23 Consider testimony you heard about negative effects,
11:43:25 excessive noise.
11:43:27 Consider the advice of your prior consultant.
11:43:29 Consider a neighborhood that doesn't meet the objectives to
11:43:32 assess the noise and understand the new sans came to the
11:43:36 neighborhood.
11:43:36 The neighborhood didn't grow around the nuisance.
11:43:40 (Bell sounds).
11:43:41 >> Thank you very much.
11:43:42 >> My name is Clay Daniels.
11:43:44 The city attorney did a good job working on this.
11:43:48 And I hear a lot of talk about common sense today.
11:43:52 Even bringing all of the experts in the world.
11:43:54 We just got to have common sense.
11:43:56 That's all it takes.
11:43:57 Common sense.
11:44:00 Ronald Reagan used that word a lot.
11:44:02 Common sense.
11:44:03 We need common sense.
11:44:10 And putting a sound barrier around the club.
11:44:13 Common sense.
11:44:13 A sound barrier, so other people won't be don't want to hear
11:44:18 your noise.
11:44:19 People want to sleep at night.
11:44:22 Common sense.
11:44:22 If you don't take care of this problem, we will be back up
11:44:25 here every year with the same problem.
11:44:26 You need to take care.
11:44:29 Common sense.
11:44:31 A sound barrier around the business so people can sleep at
11:44:34 night.
11:44:34 The taxpayer who owns the property want to sleep at night.
11:44:38 They are not trying to hurt the business.
11:44:39 We want the business to make money.
11:44:41 They deserve to make money.
11:44:42 This is America.
11:44:43 But common sense.
11:44:45 Let people sleep at night.
11:44:47 Put the sound barrier around the building.
11:44:49 Common sense.
11:44:52 That's all it takes.
11:44:53 Common sense.
11:44:53 You don't need an expert.
11:44:55 Common sense.
11:44:56 Thank you.
11:45:01 >> Marylou Bailey, 912 south Oregon Avenue and I have lived
11:45:06 in Hyde Park for 22 years and I love it and don't ever want
11:45:09 to move.
11:45:12 I had mixed viewpoints about the ordinance.
11:45:13 It's premature to adopt.
11:45:16 It's not worked on enough is my bottom line and I will give
11:45:18 a couple examples.
11:45:19 I think the plainly audible and who considers what's noisy
11:45:25 and raucous, and clearly that depends on your lifestyle,
11:45:29 your age, all kind of things.
11:45:31 I think -- I want the neighbors and businesses to get along.
11:45:37 I have lived in that spirit for a very long time.
11:45:40 I enjoy the businesses.
11:45:41 I go there regularly.
11:45:42 I don't want to run them out of business.
11:45:44 But I also don't think it's right that I have to stay inside
11:45:49 my house, because I have a nice porch and I like to sit out
11:45:53 in front and like to enjoy it.
11:45:55 These are examples of things that I consider faulty with the
11:45:58 dialogue so far.
11:45:59 We shouldn't adopt anything unless they have a plan to
11:46:02 enforce it and the funds to enforce it.
11:46:05 So it's irresponsible in my opinion to do that.
11:46:08 We have to do two things together, work with it before you
11:46:12 adopt it.
11:46:13 I am concerned that this new board might not be the right
11:46:17 way to solve problems.
11:46:19 Finding a business, maybe removing their wet zone, thing
11:46:22 like that, I don't think we need another board.
11:46:25 I think 30 second is probably too narrow.
11:46:27 We could accidentally hit the down beat or something.
11:46:33 There are nuisance complainers, I agree with that, and there
11:46:37 are nuisance businesses.
11:46:41 I took the time to read the ordinance and even called Mr.
11:46:44 Schmid last week to say I don't understand how this works
11:46:46 versus this.
11:46:47 Laymen can't understand the ordinance and I'm pretty
11:46:51 intelligent.
11:46:53 I do want to say that I am very much against having SoHo
11:46:56 being treated like Channelside, Ybor and central business
11:46:59 district.
11:47:00 They are not the same to do that.
11:47:03 Lastly on the proposal.
11:47:04 I think we should do some sort of collaborative
11:47:07 citizen/business simulation, real people, different ages,
11:47:12 different demographics, different sounds, and come to some
11:47:15 of the common sense solutions.
11:47:19 But I think we really need to do simulation.
11:47:26 Let's take some time.
11:47:27 Slow down.
11:47:27 Do some simulations P.I love that the businesses would help
11:47:30 fund it so then the city dollars are limited.
11:47:33 Thank you for my time.
11:47:34 (Bell sounds)
11:47:38 >>
11:47:44 I just want to say in no way is anyone in my neighborhood
11:47:48 suggesting that these businesses should shut down.
11:47:53 That's why we moved there.
11:47:55 We could have chosen anywhere in Tampa.
11:47:57 We could have chosen any city.
11:47:58 We chose to be part of SoHo.
11:48:00 And we don't want to run them out.
11:48:01 We just want to feel that they don't want to run us out.
11:48:05 We can cooperate.
11:48:07 But saying that Ybor and downtown are the same kind of
11:48:10 neighborhood as ours doesn't make a lot of sense.
11:48:14 I was looking at information, and in 2013, Ybor City was 22%
11:48:22 residential.
11:48:25 I lived in downtown and I know what it's like.
11:48:28 I'm familiar.
11:48:32 SoHo is 72% residential.
11:48:35 That's not the same breakdown, it's not the same area.
11:48:38 I don't think they should be treated the same.
11:48:42 And there are former residences and businesses.
11:48:45 And While we understand that, the businesses have wants and
11:48:48 needs.
11:48:48 The wants of a few shouldn't overrule the needs of many.
11:48:57 I have read several studies that the noise no negative way,
11:49:04 you can't sleep, depression, and stress, and when we first
11:49:08 moved, we noticed right away noise issues, even though we
11:49:15 were familiar with the neighborhood, and we averaged in a
11:49:20 three month span about 11 bad nights where we needed Tampa
11:49:25 PD intervention.
11:49:26 Eventually an officer was kind enough to come and mediate
11:49:31 between the owner of Hyde Park cafe and myself and get it to
11:49:35 where we could communicate, and since then, Mr. Archie has
11:49:41 been incredibly helpful and incredibly responsive.
11:49:45 We have each other's personal cell phone numbers, if it gets
11:49:48 loud, I text, he turns it down within ten minutes on
11:49:51 average, texting me back, is everything okay?
11:49:55 Let me know if it's too loud.
11:49:57 And we do.
11:49:58 And we are making it work.
11:50:00 It's not a perfect system.
11:50:02 I don't think I should have to police the businesses.
11:50:04 But I do appreciate that they want to be good neighbors with
11:50:07 us.
11:50:08 The hideout is also a local restaurant and bar with outdoor
11:50:12 space and they do the same for us.
11:50:13 They want to be good neighbors.
11:50:15 And right now I have an average of three rough nights a
11:50:21 month compared to what it used to be by working with them.
11:50:24 I think maybe some kind of collaborative effort in SoHo
11:50:27 could work, too, if it works on our side of the
11:50:30 neighborhood, it can work there.
11:50:31 And all we are asking for is just to be treated like
11:50:35 neighbors to neighbors, not opposing sides, and I genuinely
11:50:41 think that we can all get together.
11:50:43 Thank you.
11:50:43 (Bell sounds)
11:50:44 >> Good morning.
11:50:48 Peter Minotti. South Westland.
11:50:51 I want to start by thanking you for moving the DJ booth
11:50:56 inside.
11:50:56 As a result of that as a resident, the noise has really
11:50:59 ceased because what's troubling most of the residents is the
11:51:02 outdoor bands and DJs that create this inciting crowd.
11:51:09 And that's what makes us up in the middle of the night.
11:51:11 My friends over at Joe's saloon, they have been exceptional
11:51:15 building out a new place and doing everything right.
11:51:18 It's not about the bars and restaurants.
11:51:20 We want them to thrive.
11:51:22 But the noise being generated by bands, we don't wanted to
11:51:25 have Jackson hole every night.
11:51:28 But if you come down and talk to the police captain about
11:51:31 what happened on Gasparilla night and that crowd, they had
11:51:35 outdoor music, it had to be over 100 decibels on my phone it
11:51:40 registered.
11:51:41 We don't want to call the police.
11:51:43 It's a pain in the butt for us to call a police captain and
11:51:46 say, hey, come on in, it's crazy what's going on.
11:51:49 We don't want that.
11:51:50 We want 10:00 at night, play all day, play music all day, we
11:51:55 don't care.
11:51:56 But at 10:00 to 7 a.m., no loud music, no DJs.
11:52:02 Mr. Bentley's point about -- we are not here to go after the
11:52:06 bars or put them out of business.
11:52:07 What they don't realize is that the six bars that represent
11:52:10 this coalition only pay approximately 72,000 a year property
11:52:14 tax, where if you take the streets bounded by, I think,
11:52:19 Fremont, Swann, Audubon, Cleveland, Fremont, it's about
11:52:27 average probably about 4,000 a year property taxes.
11:52:30 So the previous speaker's point about 72%, do you really
11:52:36 want to build an entertainment zone which is going to
11:52:40 decrease value?
11:52:41 Because that's what's going to happen.
11:52:42 If we go to Ybor, if we go to the Channelside model, what's
11:52:46 next?
11:52:47 It will be an entertainment zone and then you are going to
11:52:50 see a reduction of property values.
11:52:51 We don't want that either.
11:52:52 But at the end of the day, there have been some great steps
11:52:56 taken from the ordinance, and as long as you continue to
11:53:01 drive out that live music concept, I think we can all get
11:53:04 along.
11:53:05 The decibel stuff, I'm confused.
11:53:08 A lot of work here.
11:53:09 I can't fibbing it out.
11:53:10 I just know when I hear disco music in my bedroom that's how
11:53:14 I know it's a noise violation.
11:53:16 Thank you.
11:53:16 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
11:53:18 Our last speaker and then we will wrap up our meeting.
11:53:22 >> Good morning.
11:53:24 I'm Greg from the Frankland Manor.
11:53:28 Thank you so much for taking the time out of your week last
11:53:31 week to speak to all of us about some of the issues that we
11:53:36 know we are concerned with.
11:53:38 First, Mr. Miranda, last week, you proposed to try to work
11:53:46 on a first name basis, and maybe that they could use their
11:53:49 discretion to file some of these complaints, and one of the
11:53:53 problems at the end of the day, and the issues that we have
11:53:59 had, we have had one neighbor complaining, and will sit
11:54:03 there and harass the police officers and videotape them just
11:54:06 to make sure that if we might be one decibel over, which we
11:54:11 really haven't been, that they are forced by intimidation to
11:54:15 issue a citation.
11:54:17 And of course we have over 200 employees and general
11:54:23 contractors that work around our restaurant, and we have
11:54:26 gone to the building because we have employees and we have
11:54:32 never heard our own establishment inside of a building, but
11:54:36 yet in the three weeks that we have been open, we have had
11:54:40 almost seven visitations from noise ordinance officers, and
11:54:44 as you know, we know the three strike rule right now, and
11:54:48 it's definitely pretty scary.
11:54:50 We have worked with SkyPoint elementary and we have had zero
11:54:55 complaints, but it's one neighbor that is very known to you
11:55:01 guys because he has harassed other establishments in the
11:55:03 past.
11:55:03 We have many talked about the idea of putting something in
11:55:09 place where -- I understand that some people abuse their
11:55:15 power and sometimes it might be loud, but in other instances
11:55:17 we have to have some sort of protection from somebody who
11:55:20 has some sort of vengeance against, you know, a business.
11:55:27 Thank you.
11:55:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
11:55:29 All right.
11:55:30 I'm sorry, public comment is closed.
11:55:33 And we are going to now move on to council discussion to
11:55:35 finish this up.
11:55:36 Councilman Miranda.
11:55:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For the first time, there's been at
11:55:41 least I think some conversation that I have heard in these
11:55:44 chambers where neighbors and businesses are trying to
11:55:47 understand each other.
11:55:47 I don't think that was present some years back.
11:55:51 There were five attorneys that spoke today.
11:55:55 Cinco.
11:55:56 Five in 30 minutes.
11:55:57 Usually it takes three days to hear five attorneys.
11:56:00 But through your chairmanship, Mr. Chairman, you held to
11:56:03 that three minute rule and less.
11:56:05 One attorney, however, went, I believe, and said you can't
11:56:08 do what we did.
11:56:10 That you can't enforce different zones in different areas.
11:56:14 Well, if I follow that rule of law, I can't have different
11:56:17 speed zones in the areas either.
11:56:18 I can't do anything different that I can't do for one
11:56:23 neighborhood.
11:56:24 If we are going that way this country is going to hell.
11:56:29 That's all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.
11:56:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
11:56:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
11:56:35 We are talking common sense here.
11:56:37 We are looking at the public health and safety and welfare.
11:56:42 And I see -- I can understand the point where they were
11:56:47 saying, as someone brought up that there were fewer
11:56:52 citations because of the litigation that was out there, that
11:56:56 we all know was out there.
11:56:58 The other thing I want to bring up is the federal DPA
11:57:04 standards which is the 55.
11:57:06 Here is the thing, folks.
11:57:09 It's outdoor amplification.
11:57:11 Outdoor amplification.
11:57:14 That has the problem.
11:57:16 I'm willing to raise the decibel.
11:57:21 But you all get together, your businesses, and you stop
11:57:26 outdoor amplification at 10 p.m. during the week and
11:57:30 midnight on weekends.
11:57:32 Outdoor amplification is the problem.
11:57:38 You know, someone mentioned that they moved the DJ indoors.
11:57:43 That is an excellent move.
11:57:44 Because what happens is when you have that amplification,
11:57:46 people have to speak louder.
11:57:48 And MacDinton's allows over 700 people.
11:57:53 So that is the problem.
11:57:57 And so stop it at that time.
11:58:04 And I would be willing to move it up a little bit.
11:58:06 And I think the neighbors would be okay with that.
11:58:10 So think about it.
11:58:11 Get together.
11:58:15 The only other thing I see is putting something in an
11:58:19 ordinance where there's no out door amplification unless you
11:58:23 come to city and explain why you need it.
11:58:25 But that's not something for right now.
11:58:37 Again, that would be my suggestion.
11:58:42 I don't know if we can make that into a motion to put into
11:58:47 the ordinance and think about -- maybe thinking about
11:58:51 decibels that are agreeable.
11:58:55 Because I do believe that the manager from Epicurean here?
11:59:02 When I spoke to him yesterday, they have metered the noise
11:59:11 during the day all the way up and down Howard Avenue, and it
11:59:15 was 65, and it was the same at night, 65.
11:59:18 So that number seems to be something that -- so if you have
11:59:23 that during the day, just from traffic and movement, the 55,
11:59:30 and we can do different noise levels in different areas.
11:59:37 That's my suggestion.
11:59:40 Stop at 10 p.m. outdoor -- there's a huge difference between
11:59:45 acoustic and outdoors.
11:59:46 You have acoustic music.
11:59:48 It's actually pleasant.
11:59:50 It can be very pleasant.
11:59:52 So, anyway, that's it for me.
11:59:53 >>HARRY COHEN: May I have five additional minutes before we
11:59:56 go to Mr. Reddick?
11:59:57 I think we can wrap it up.
11:59:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved for five minutes.
12:00:01 >> Second.
12:00:01 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor say aye.
12:00:05 Thank you.
12:00:05 Councilman Reddick.
12:00:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
12:00:09 This came up several times.
12:00:11 I guess my question would be TPD.
12:00:14 The people that called and complained about the noise, do
12:00:23 you analyze those that are calling that is consistent, or
12:00:26 just the same people calling over and over and over?
12:00:29 >> It depends.
12:00:34 I'll use SoHo for example.
12:00:38 I have personally worked with citizens out there to limit
12:00:41 their complaints that come to the city so I do have my
12:00:45 personal cell phone number.
12:00:46 At times they do call me personally, or text me, and we
12:00:50 discuss it.
12:00:51 And I send an officer out.
12:00:56 My phone does not ring as much.
12:01:01 I could say it's 100% better.
12:01:03 We are working with that community strongly, you know.
12:01:06 Just since September 2nd, we did write up a citation,
12:01:10 but that's the last one in a long time.
12:01:17 There are certainly repeat offenders.
12:01:21 I did not do all that research on repeat offenders.
12:01:25 But usually I feigned it comes to my phone because they all
12:01:31 know me so well.
12:01:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
12:01:33 >> But I don't have an answer to that any further.
12:01:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
12:01:40 I just wanted to get a brief response whether that was the
12:01:43 case or not.
12:01:43 I appreciate it.
12:01:44 >> Okay, thank you.
12:01:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'm with Ms. Capin here that there has to
12:01:59 be a balance between the businesses and the neighborhood.
12:02:04 And I'm willing to reach out if we are able to do it to be
12:02:15 inclusive part of our ordinance, but like someone said
12:02:19 earlier, you know, don't expect everybody to be happy.
12:02:29 I think to be fair.
12:02:31 And I'm willing to be fair in every respect, but I agree,
12:02:39 businesses are going to have to make some adjustment, and
12:02:44 those who live in surrounding communities go out and make
12:02:49 some adjustments as well.
12:02:50 So I don't know if we have a position of doing a
12:02:56 recommendation today or if we are just discussing it.
12:02:58 >>HARRY COHEN: I think since our custom is not to make
12:03:02 motions at workshops everyone can think about what they
12:03:04 heard today, and it sound like Councilwoman Capin has some
12:03:08 ideas, and then put those in the form of a motion for new
12:03:11 business.
12:03:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We don't need motions but we can make a
12:03:19 motion.
12:03:20 Okay.
12:03:20 So the other thing is, if we are going to move -- just a
12:03:27 suggestion about outdoor amplification.
12:03:34 I would also like to ask that what we have in place right
12:03:36 now, we should be careful how it's monitored, and these
12:03:48 businesses are waiting for us and the neighborhood, the
12:03:51 whole neighborhood, because it is a neighborhood, both the
12:03:55 residences and businesses live there, and the other person
12:03:58 was right about that the businesses grew around to the
12:04:02 neighborhood as opposed to the other way around.
12:04:08 And when you have 72% residents, that's quite a bit.
12:04:16 Those have to be considered.
12:04:18 If we are going to move that, then I want to suggest that
12:04:22 55, until we decide.
12:04:28 I know it in the ordinance, but can we somehow do warnings
12:04:35 in between now and when we do come up with -- if it's going
12:04:39 to stay at 55 or if it's going to move?
12:04:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Schmid, I believe that was for you.
12:04:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
12:04:46 I'm looking right at now.
12:04:47 >>Michael Schmid: Maybe I was hesitating because I didn't
12:04:52 want to have to stand up and address that.
12:04:54 But in all seriousness, could we do warnings?
12:05:01 There have been times when the police department has when a
12:05:07 new ordinance comes out, there's been a warning period first
12:05:10 before it's enacted.
12:05:12 This is a little different in the fact that we didn't change
12:05:16 the decibel levels.
12:05:17 It didn't really change.
12:05:19 And so we had sort of to make sure that nothing gets changed
12:05:26 before new legal training was put on.
12:05:32 But at the same point I am getting flooded, inundated with
12:05:36 people saying why aren't we enforcing this right now?
12:05:39 And I would have to say what would that do if we warned and
12:05:43 didn't do anything?
12:05:44 I would have some concerns that without follow-up warning
12:05:48 means nothing.
12:05:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, when are we going to take this up?
12:05:53 Are we looking at --
12:05:57 >>HARRY COHEN: I think it depends on when council would
12:05:59 like to at that time up.
12:06:00 We are just waiting for a motion.
12:06:01 Clearly it's going to need to be taken up soon.
12:06:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
12:06:06 Because -- it would be a shame if businesses are damaged
12:06:21 over the 55, and then when it comes back to council we
12:06:26 change it.
12:06:27 That's my point.
12:06:30 Maybe it will say stay the same.
12:06:32 I don't know.
12:06:33 But I don't have a crystal ball.
12:06:37 Do you?
12:06:39 >>Michael Schmid: No, I don't.
12:06:40 And granted, we have been working with the businesses as it
12:06:44 is right now.
12:06:45 And so again, this is how I sort of started today saying
12:06:50 there are a whole lot of what-ifs about we don't hear a
12:06:53 whole lot of problems actually being brought in front of you
12:06:56 that actually exist currently.
12:06:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Inundated with calls saying why isn't this
12:07:03 enforced?
12:07:04 >>Michael Schmid: Correct.
12:07:06 Why aren't we training the officers to read the ordinance
12:07:12 right now?
12:07:12 And my response has been I can't tell them how to use an
12:07:15 ordinance.
12:07:17 City Council is still actively looking at it on a long-term
12:07:21 basis.
12:07:21 It seems that I need some finality.
12:07:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
12:07:25 That makes sense.
12:07:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Miranda.
12:07:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just talking to me to myself, as a
12:07:34 legislator, to myself.
12:07:36 If I start talking about making changes before something is
12:07:38 passed, with five attorneys here, the same thing that I say
12:07:41 is going to be used against me in court, meaning the city,
12:07:45 and that's already happened.
12:07:46 We have been sued by some attorneys that are right in this
12:07:48 room and got a lot of money out of us.
12:07:51 So let's not be stupid.
12:07:54 I'm talking me.
12:07:55 Nobody else but me.
12:07:56 Thank you.
12:07:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:08:03 I'm going to make a motion that this item be placed on the
12:08:10 October 20 calendar under staff reports at 9:00.
12:08:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second, Mr. Chairman.
12:08:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Any additional discussion?
12:08:19 I don't see any.
12:08:20 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
12:08:23 Opposed?
12:08:24 All right.
12:08:24 So on October 20th we will come back under staff
12:08:26 reports, and at that time I would expect that council
12:08:30 members will be in a position to make motions and discuss
12:08:33 how they want to move forward on this item.
12:08:35 We have one other item to take up, and that is just a
12:08:39 continuance of item number 7.
12:08:41 We need to open the public hearing and then --
12:08:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open, Mr. Chairman.
12:08:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Moved to open the public hearing by
12:08:48 Councilman chairman.
12:08:50 Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
12:08:52 All in favor?
12:08:55 Ladies and gentlemen, we are still in session, if you don't
12:08:57 mind.
12:08:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask that before you make a motion
12:09:02 to continue that you accept the substitute that was
12:09:05 submitted by the legal department.
12:09:06 >> So moved.
12:09:11 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion by Councilman Reddick,
12:09:14 seconded by Councilman Miranda.
12:09:16 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
12:09:18 Opposed?
12:09:20 All right.
12:09:27 I recused myself from this item but I don't need to recuse
12:09:30 myself from the continuance since that is only procedural
12:09:33 according to what I have been told.
12:09:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is correct sir.
12:09:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to continue to October 13 at 6:00.
12:09:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Moved by Councilman --
12:09:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: October 13.
12:09:53 >>HARRY COHEN: No, November 13th.
12:09:57 It's because the other one --
12:09:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: Oh, November 3rd, 9:30 a.m.
12:10:03 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion by Councilman Reddick.
12:10:06 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
12:10:08 To move that item to November 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
12:10:11 All those in favor?
12:10:13 Opposed?
12:10:14 Yes, Mr. Shelby?
12:10:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, the date that council settle not be
12:10:20 available.
12:10:20 I don't know what council wants for staff reports.
12:10:24 Do you need him present?
12:10:31 The captain is not available.
12:10:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Everyone just left knowing the date.
12:10:38 Why don't you keep it and we'll let you know.
12:10:41 But have a wonderful time.
12:10:44 Ladies and gentlemen, can we please have a motion to receive
12:10:48 and file all documents including items submitted to me by
12:10:52 neighborhood joint studies related to the noise workshop?
12:10:54 The motion made by Councilman Reddick, seconded by
12:10:58 Councilwoman Capin.
12:10:59 All in favor?
12:11:00 We will see you at 5:00 tonight.
12:11:02 [Sounding gavel]
12:11:05 >>
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