📝 City Council Meeting Transcript

Tampa City Council
Thursday, January 20, 2005
9:00 a.m.

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[Sounding gavel]
>>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
The chair will yield to Ms. Linda Saul-Sena.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Good morning.
It's my pleasure this morning to introduce our greeter.
RESHAL Reebok is an attorney in our community and was the winner of the individual achievement award.
So I would like everyone to join Michelle, stand for the greeting and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
>> Thank you, Councilwoman Saul-Sena and council members.
Really, it would be a disservice to the audience if they remain standing.
Is it okay if they sit down before we do the pledge?
So I can make these remarks?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, they should remain standing.
Keep it relatively short.
>> Thank you, council members, for inviting me here today to present this invocation.
I would like to take a few moments before beginning our work to allow us all to reflect on the nature of our public service, as citizens and as public officials.
I generally do my praying in private, but today's public political events in Washington bring to my mind the serenity prayer adapted from the theologian Reinhold Niebuhr.
Also the Alcoholics Anonymous.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
It is a good day for thoughts about that greeting.
After all, today happens to be the inauguration of the president of the United States.
So I have been thinking a lot about politics, acceptance, change, and the need for wisdom.
I wonder does this widely promoted prescription for serenity, courage and wisdom provide us enough guidance as we face the complex issues of our time, in our cities and in our homes and in our relationship with the world.
I understand that some challenges we have no choice but to accept, the loss of a loved one, a health crisis, the end of a cherished relationship, but in the arena of public service, and in the public life of the citizen, I hope that we still value the courage to change the things we can and should change over the acceptance of things as they are.
In our civic life I hope that we recognize that with the wisdom to discern the difference comes the responsibility to be accountable for those choices.
Recently, we have been told that we are now supposed to be in the acceptance phase of our public policy.
The accountability moment, it's been said, was the election.
I'm just not so sure that it isn't selective and too narrow reading of the serenity prayer.
After the part about the serenity of acceptance, it still goes on, to the part about recognizing the things we can still change and acting on them, even when to act is difficult or unpopular, and demands courage.
That part is the essence of accountability and it is meant to be an ongoing process, and the perpetual infinite responsibility of our American leadership.
I'm just not convinced that political accountability lives in a moment, and then passes on through acceptance, like a larva metamorphoses to a butterfly.
Good public servants, whether elected like you or those like me, who hold only the awesome responsibilities of citizenship, we know that an election is just another beginning of greater accountability for both the winner and the loser.
It is a passage into renewed opportunity, for government, and for the people to both find the courage to change those things that still must be changed.
We are thankful for the opportunity this morning to meet together, to work together, and to freely speak together for the common good, and with a common purpose, to exchange ideas, and pursue our ideals.
May we be granted the courage to change the things we can change and the wisdom not to be accepting, but to still try harder on the things we think we can't change, because by acting for change, we are often rewarded with a measurable success.
Thank you.

>>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
>>GWEN MILLER: Here.
At this time, we are going to have a commendation presented by councilman Kevin White.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Thank you, Madam Chair, colleagues.
I'd like to have Joseph Feliciano, Chief Steven Hogue, a representative of the Florida Highway Patrol, and the Sheriff please join me.
As we read in the paper, on January 5th, Highway Patrol Officer Brandon McElderry was on routine patrol on the interstate system in Tampa.
He noticed a vehicle driving erratically that had an expired tag.
He went to do a vehicle stop on that particular vehicle.
And the suspect in the vehicle fled, ensuing a minor police pursuit.
The pursuit led off of the interstate system into the inner City of Tampa, and Trooper McElderry was not familiar with the City of Tampa, and the inner cities, and a foot chase ensued, and the suspect ended up taking the trooper's weapon using it against him and shot the trooper.
The trooper was incapacitated, and without weapon, and in a strained environment, and basically couldn't call for help, or called for assistance but couldn't tell his fellow troops where he was.
Then he looked up and saw the face of our recipient of our award today, Joseph Feliciano, who came to his aid, who called police, summoned fire rescue and stayed with the fallen trooper until help arrived.
And as a former law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department as well as working with Hillsborough County sheriff's office, want the community to know that I don't think there is a greater fear of any law enforcement officer out here on the street than needing help and needing it quickly and not knowing where you are.
There's no other lost feeling in the world than needing help and not being able to summon help.
And for that, I think it would be remiss if we didn't have our chief, our sheriff, and Major Knight from the Hillsborough County -- I'm sorry, from the Florida Highway Patrol say a few words before I give Mr. Feliciano the commendation from the City Council in regards to their appreciation for what they did, for what Mr. Feliciano did, for law enforcement everywhere.
It wasn't just for the Florida Highway Patrol.
And I'd like to start with Major Knight, please, if I could.
>> Major Knight: On behalf of trooper McElderry and all the men and women of highway patrol, thank you.
He was definitely in distress, very much appreciated.
He's at the doctor right now.
He sends his thanks to you.
And he will come see you, too, when us done with his medical condition.
On behalf of the men and women, thank you very much.
>>Chief Hogue: I would also like to say thank you very much for what you did.
As law enforcement officers, we fully understand that the color of that officer's uniform made no difference to this gentleman.
It could have been a Tampa police officer, it could have been a sheriffs deputy there, and when a citizen comes to our aid, that is appreciated.
And I would like to add one additional thing.
The suspect took the trooper's gun.
He was armed with a gun.
He shot the trooper with the gun.
So it was O obviously out of propensity to shoot the gun once he got ahold of it.
When Mr. Feliciano went out to assist the trooper he did not know whether that suspect was still in the area, right there and could as well shoot him, also.
So I think it speaks to a little bit of his bravery, too, that he came forward in that very dangerous situation to render aid.
And I would like to say thank you again, Mr. Feliciano.
>>Sheriff David Gee: Thank you very much.
On behalf of all men and women in law enforcement, that sometimes people don't understand that when you put on that uniform, you don't become supermen, and we need help sometime.
And an attack on any law enforcement officer is an attack on our society, what they represent.
And when you come to their aid, you're helping all of us.
So we certainly appreciate it.
I know all the people in law enforcement throughout the bay area appreciate your acts very much.
Thank you.
>>KEVIN WHITE: At this time, I would like to present the commendation to Mr. Joseph Feliciano from Tampa City Council.
In honor of your quick actions and total disregard for your own personal safety, you are hereby commended for coming to the aid of a fallen Florida Highway Patrol officer who had been shot in the line of duty.
Upon noticing trooper Brandon McElderry lying on the ground you demonstrated great courage in staying with this fallen trooper until help could be summoned and arrived.
On behalf of the City of Tampa and law enforcement everywhere, the City of Tampa City Council thanks you.
(applause)
After hearing about the commendation being awarded, as most of my colleagues know, I love to eat.
The restaurateurs in town came out in great force want to show their appreciation.
Here's a gift certificate for Carmine's restaurant in Ybor City.
Another one for Valencia Gardens.
One for Jay Alexander's.
And another from the Outback steakhouse.
Hope you and your family enjoy it.
And if you would like to have a few words.
>>> I'd like to thank the great City of Tampa.
This behavior of mine, this is an everyday thing ethic and values in my family has taught me.
And if it happens again I'll do the same thing.
Everybody have a great day.
Thank you.
(Applause)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Feliciano, first of all, I want to add my thanks that Kevin has given to you and law enforcement has given to you.
I was fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have a store close to that site and was allowed to be there with police, sheriffs and the troopers, and this is what law enforcement is all about.
There was a lady who was also a witness who said to us, at very close range, you know, this is why I moved here from Brooklyn, because I thought there was no crime here.
Well, obviously none of us are exempt from crime.
But the counterpart to that is having the best equipment we can against crime, and that's law enforcement.
And I said this last week, chief, when we were giving out a week before an accommodation.
It's heart filling to see how the Sheriff's Department, TPD and troopers work together to get this done and the citizens assisted and you were right at the top, Mr. Feliciano. This is the neat part of our job, trying to say thank you to so many people we try to reach because of their heroic duty.
On behalf of public safety as that chairman, thank you.
And you guys, even the new sheriff in town.
Thank you, David.
>>GWEN MILLER: At this time, Rose Ferlita will introduce our Officer of the Month.
>>ROSE FERLITA: We are talking about law enforcement and thanking law enforcement and praising law enforcement, right?
Coincidentally in about a half hour the renewed Commander in Chief will again be president, and I would like to congratulate him seeing as how he earned that position in the democratic process, and I think that follows some of the comments that were made today.
So, Officer Scott Guffey.
Do you have any relatives, family?
No?
You, me and us?
This is again the nice part of being chairman of public safety.
And again, Gwen, thank you for allowing me to do this over and over again.
As I always say, the chief has a hard job trying to pick one of you guys to be honored today because if we had the opportunity we would make up more indications to say thank you.
That being said, Chief, you know, why don't you say why you picked him and we'll try to say thank you.
>> Chief Hogue: It's my privilege to introduce Michael Skyback as Officer of the Month for January 2005 for the Tampa Police Department.
He consistently makes a difference in the Tampa Heights community, focusing on quality of life concerns as well as arresting felons who oppress area residents.
In recognition of his efforts has earned him praise from the community and the department's officer of the month award for January 2005.
Officer Scott pax commitment as an officer in Tampa Heights for the rapport he has established in that community.
He serves area residents even on his days off.
In addition to the neighborhood in enhancing the quality of life, Officer Skyback keeps a keen eye out for those who potentially victimize residents.
During November of 2004 his activities resulted in 37 felony and misdemeanor arrests, as well as over 20 suspicious person contacts in his zones.
His knowledge of west Tampa was evident in late November when he caught an armed robbery suspect.
Officer Skyback was on his way to work when he heard a call go out reference to an armed robbery of a fast food business on Kennedy Boulevard.
Officer Skyback quickly spotted the vehicle with two males inside and started to pursue.
In the area of North Rome and Gray Street the suspects intentionally drove their vehicle into his marked police car before attempting to flee on foot.
He was still able to catch the driver as other units in the area caught the second suspect.
As a result of officer's commitment to suspects two suspect were caught and the stolen money recovered.
Thank you.
In addition to that, Officer Skyback epitomizes what community policing is all about.
He knows most of the residents in his area.
He knows all the criminals in his area.
And every time that I go into Tampa Heights, everybody says to me, Chief, don't move Officer Skyback from this area.
They really don't care if I go somewhere, but they sure don't want him to.
And I appreciate that.
And I appreciate that dedication in the neighborhood.
And those kind of results.
Thank you very much.
>>ROSE FERLITA: My legislative aide Della Curry does these over every month.
She has a hard time sometimes putting everything on the plaque.
So with everything eloquently said about you, I think Major McNamara has a few comments to add.
>>> Major McNamara: Good morning, council.
The chief talked about felony arrests.
And he certainly does epitomize what community policing is from the mayor's viewpoint and the chief's viewpoint.
But two days ago it was his day off, he called and said I have been working with code enforcement at a house at 2806 Morgan which we have had numerous drug complaints on, quality of life issues.
On his day off he comes down and puts together a workforce that tears down this house, 50 to 70 people come out and applaud him.
There's no media.
But on his day off this is what the guy does.
I work with the guy and I have always been impressed with him.
He's a go-to officer.
But during the hurricanes, 24 hours, 30 hours on his shift, I don't know, we are all doing what we have to do, across from the federal courthouse, large sheets of plywood blue off into the street in front of me.
I thought I was seeing things.
Called for assistance.
Officer Skyback comes off an massive incident vehicle, and checks out the casing of the window and hammers the thing back up.
Things normal officers don't do.
The guy goes above and beyond the call of duty every time.
It's just things like that that make him -- you're one of the finest we have.
You represent this department and wear that badge proudly and I appreciate all the hard work you do.
(Applause)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Officer Skyback, we feel absolutely safe because of your leadership in our community.
Thank you for that.
So with that being said, it's my pleasure to present this to you, on behalf of the community and on behalf of our colleagues, on behalf of my chairman and myself, presented to officer Michael Skyback in recognition of his dedicated efforts, has been selected as the officer of the month for January 2005.
As a community policing officer for Tampa Heights, Officer Skyback has made a real difference in the lives of the residents of the neighborhood, for keeping our city safer, the City Council, the City of Tampa commends you and I personally say thank you for everything you do each and every day.
And before you say a couple of words our corporate community would like to say thank you as well.
>> Heather Sitton: Lowry Park Zoo.
I would like to say congratulations on a job very well done.
We are all thankful we have you to keep us safe.
As a token of our appreciation we would like to present you with tickets to Lowry Park Zoo.
>>> Thank you.
>> Danny Lewis representing Bill Currie Ford.
Officer Skyback, I'm honored to present you this watch with the Tampa Police Department logo, as a small token of our appreciation from Bill Currie Ford for making our city a safe place to live.
Thank you.
>> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
Officer Skyback, on approximate behalf of Stepp's, we would like to present you this statute for a job well done, your hard work in the community for the citizens of Tampa, and also a gift certificate to Outback.
We hope you enjoy it.
And we thank you.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Have any hands left?
>>> Not many.
>> This is going to be easy to carry.
All paper.
On behalf of your dedication and commitment to Tampa and the employees and making this a better place to live and work the Signature Room Grille will provide with you a $100 gift certificate so you can expand your territory now to the Channelside district.
And all the folks over in Courier City, they love you, too.
Po Boy's restaurant wants you to come down and visit.
We are going to present you with your choice of lunch or dinner.
And of course South Tampa wouldn't be what it is without Bern's steak house.
So we are going to give you a $100 gift certificate.
You can go down to Bern's.
If you see anything happening down there, just stop it, okay?
Bryn Allen studio wants to provide you with a photographic package for you, and have your portrait taken, then you can hang it in the chief's office.
The Hillsborough County towing association is going to provide with you a $50 gift certificate for your choice of Carabbas or Outback's.
So you have an exciting at least a week or two ahead of you.
So I hope you enjoy yourself.
Congratulations.
>>ROSE FERLITA: For our corporate members, I want to say as always thank you for supporting us.
You're on.
>>> Thank you, council, for having me here, and chief and major, of course, who allows me to do the job I do.
And thank you for all the gifts and support.
Not needed.
There's plenty of officers out there that do the same thing I do every day.
Hopefully we will get to recognize them as well.
Thank you.
(Applause)
>>GWEN MILLER: At this time I am going to present a commendation to the Junior League of Women of Tampa.
And I would like for Ms. Susan Thompson, the president, and Pam Daughtry to come forward.
I'm very honored this morning to give these young ladies this award.
It is a very prestigious award.
We would want to say they got it.
I would like to know why they got it.
The junior league of Tampa has been committed to building healthier and more vital communities through the partnership and fund-raisers.
Over 1,600 women have given of their time in order to provide over 80,000 volunteer service hours annually to support the community organizations, city projects and other nonprofits groups.
These ladies have participated in such undertakings as the building blocks for the life project which provides children and their families with opportunity and service essentially for their physical, intellectual, emotional and social well-being.
Other community projects that the community league of Tampa began and have assisted with include but are not limited to: Alpha House, Bungalow, Bereavement Camp, Hospice of Hillsborough County, Child Abuse Task Force, the Children's Museum, Emergency Shelter, the Children's Home, Foster Family Recruitment, Habitat for Humanity, the Lowry Park Zoo Education Program, and the Metropolitan Ministry Daycare Center.
As you can see, this organization is certainly worthy of any award, commendation that they receive.
It is for these reasons that the Tampa City Council is more than happy to present the Points of Light award to the Junior League of Tampa on behalf of Governor Jeb Bush.
And I would like to read the letter from the governor:
Dear Jr. league members: Congratulations to the Junior League of Tampa for being named the Points of Light award recipient.
There are many people and organizations in our society that give of their time and talents.
For some shining examples of us all.
Thank you for all that you have been, for being one of the special organizations.
The governor Points of Light award are administered by Florida volunteer organization sponsored by the Caribbean international and the celebrity cruise line.
It's awarded weekly in Florida to recipients of an organization demonstrating exemplary service to the community.
Nominations are reviewed by a panel of judges comprised of leaders in areas of community service.
The volunteer time that you have given to the State of Florida and especially to your community has not only enhanced the lives of many but has set a fine example of the important contributions that may be made by each and every citizen of our state.
And in addition to receiving if award certificate, I hope that you will be able to join me next fall for the annual Points of Light awards reception at my home.
You will be sent information regarding the reception at the time draws near.
Congratulations and thank you again for all your dedication and service to our citizens and community of our states.
Sincerely, Governor Jeb Bush.
I also have a certificate which he has sent to present to you.
The point of light presented to the Junior League of Tampa.
And this is from Governor Jeb Bush.
I also have a commendation from my colleague and members of City Council, presented to the Junior League of Tampa in recognition of being named a point of light award recipient by Governor Jeb Bush on January 3rd, 2005, the Tampa City Council would like to take this opportunity to extend their congratulations on this momentous achievement.
Best wishes also being offered as you move forward with your mission of building healthier and more vital communities through the partnership of fund-raising.
I'd like to present this to you.
I appreciate it.
(Applause)
>> Susan Thompson, president for Junior League of Tampa.
On behalf of Junior League of Tampa I would like to thank the City Council for presenting the governor's Points of Light award to us.
We are dedicated to helping build a better community for the residents here and we are honored and privileged to receive this award.
Thank you.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I think we have a couple of council members that would like to say something.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to add my voice to the commendations.
You have initiated almost all -- not almost all, a great number of the community organizations, not nonprofits.
I prefer to call them community profit organizations, in our town.
And not only have you begun them, funded them, staffed them, you've trained young women in Tampa how to assume leadership organizational skills, how to direct the organization, and how to put energy into the community.
And most of these organizations now are free-standing which is a compliment to your leadership and organizational skills, to get them to the point where they can flourish on their own, independent of the Junior League support, and then you go and start other worthy endeavors.
You have just been terrific.
And I'm pleased to see the state recognizing what you have been doing for our community for many, many years.
I thank you for all your work.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Mr. David Smith, you are next.
>>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
Good morning.
I am here once again to introduce to you a new attorney who has joined the legal department.
We are now at full strength so I will not be introducing any new attorneys soon, I hope.
And the person who is joining us today, sitting in the second seat in the front row from the right, or I guess from your right, her name is Torian Ida.
She did undergraduate work at Florida State University.
And she got her law degree from Florida State University.
I don't know why I have trouble remembering that school.
I always have to ask it where it was she attended.
She worked at the public defender's office for two and a half years and worked at the attorney general's office for three years, working in dependency law.
She will be working with us in litigation as well as assisting us in several administrative fields.
I think you will enjoy working with her.
She's really energetic, upbeat, and is a great addition to the firm.
I think we have an excellent group of attorneys.
And we are going to go through a slight reorganization, which we will get to you as we do that.
And she will be certainly one of those assets.
Thank you very much.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Smith, when somebody under your employ doesn't do good things, sometimes the person in leadership doesn't want to take the blame.
But when they do something good then certainly you are at the forefront to say thank you.
That's the case today.
I forget about the FSU, you're right.
But I did some research of my own and senator -- former Senator Hargrett and his family has spoken very well.
And we don't need to talk about the relationship there but we are excited and, listening to their excitement, I'm excited as well.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Would you like to say something?
>>> Good morning.
And just that I look forward to working hard on the City of Tampa.
>> And you're sorry about the Florida State thing.
>>> I can't help it.
>> We know you are going to enjoy working with us and we are going to enjoy working with you.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And give us your cell number.
(Laughter)
>> At this time we go to department heads.
We have Mr. George Martin.
>>> Jorge Martin, assistant city attorney.
I have two matters before you.
One of them is the last draft of the amendments to chapter 9 of the city code.
This was a request by Linda Saul-Sena to present this draft to all of the council members this morning at the discussion meeting held last Friday.
Just a couple of things.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What item is this on the agenda?
>>GWEN MILLER: Item C.
>>> This was at your request on the discussion meeting that we present copies to each of the council members.
Just a few matters I wanted to point out to council members as you read this.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have a copy of this?
>>> Excuse me?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have a copy of this?
>>> Yes.
Each one of you should have a copy.
>>GWEN MILLER: We all have copies.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: We do?
Change from the draft?
>>> There's been no change from the previous draft.
For those of you who haven't had a chance to look through this draft, what this does is bring our code into conformance with the chapter 162 amendments that were recently enacted, and increases the fines.
It also requires certain disclosures for people who transfer property for enforcement proceedings.
It clarifies certain issues.
It's been noticed.
And in particular with recent changes to the city administration wanting to have perhaps more hearing masters, other types of cases heard where utilities want also to get before boards.
We have the capacity to bring other masters in, also appoint other boards, if necessary.
I also have a resolution allowing the heart group to use the City of Tampa seal in connection with bike week, or bike day, which is going to be held in March.
It will be a bike ride open to the public.
And that has also come before you this morning.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Martin, thank you for the presentation.
I unfortunately couldn't be here last Friday morning and I don't know if you all discussed this.
But we all know everything that's happening downtown now.
All of the redevelopment that's happening downtown.
There's great interest in residential properties downtown.
And it would seem to me like a quick and fairly easy way to start bringing some money into the coffers so we can hire these extra hearing masters, to start foreclosing the enforcement and demolition wings that exist on downtown properties.
They are all commercial.
They are not residential.
So we don't have any homestead issues.
People aren't living there so you are not putting someone out and on the street from their home.
But I am certain there are probably several hundred if not millions of dollars worth of code enforcement demolition liens on properties in the downtown area that are receiving great interest right now.
And those liens will be paid if we simply start the foreclosure process.
Seems that's kind of a no-brainer to go ahead and get started on those.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Ms. Ferlita, Ms. Alvarez and I all expressed great frustration last Friday that we haven't yet increased our fines to the ability we are able to.
And Mr. Harrison, these are specifically geared toward commercial properties.
And we asked Mr. Martin to make great haste to come back.
And frankly I'm absolutely thrilled that you were able to get this before us so expeditiously.
So I think we should do both things, what you suggested and move ahead with this.
This is the enabling legislation to then allow us to increase the fines.
And I'm really pleased to see you back this Thursday.
>>> Jorge Martin: In response to Mr. Harrison, the process to increase foreclosures is already under way.
We have a number of candidates that have been brought to our attention by the department of code enforcement.
We have a proposed executive order to be issued by the mayor creating the parameters by which foreclosure candidates are chosen.
So that's on the way.
I think we had a little bit of bump with the funding of our judicial costs.
And that's been taken care of.
So we expect very shortly to have our project under way.
And all properties in the city are under consideration.
But certainly downtown is an area where we can give special consideration.
I believe you brought some to my attention which is being given special consideration at this time.
>> And you have a brand new lady there.
>> We will bring her under way.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Alvarez pretty much led the charge and allowed us to see we got something done, so, Mary, thank you for that.
In terms of foreclosure we have talked about that before.
And not exclusively really downtown, regardless of the D development.
Oftentimes, in Old Seminole Heights, southeast Seminole Heights, many of the areas of the city, we don't threaten businesses that are perpetual violators enough.
We go ahead and say we are going to foreclose, or go into commendation.
Then they understand it because you are taking away the business.
Otherwise it continues to be the revolving door we have so frequently seen.
Combination of improved equipment like the hanson that was told to us would be in place, now we have been told that it's going to be here in June because that's new improved.
So are we going to do bad business by waiting for the later, better model?
Again and giving that equipment to our code enforcement people.
In addition to which, I mean, the frustration was obvious around the dais and I think we are getting to that point.
And I particularly want to thank Mr. Shelby.
He looked at the whole process as the newcomer with certainly some experience on the other side of the bay, and it looks like there were a lot of processes or procedures or steps that can be shortened, and that obviously makes us more efficient.
The idea of the master would be perfect because we are speeding along, and we can get these things done in a more expeditious fashion.
So I think that probably our frustrations are culminating and we realize we are going to do something very, very soon.
Mr. Shelby, because of the fact you are instrumental in giving us some of these suggestions, not to short Mr. Martin for his long-term work, but if you would like to say something or finish off what we are trying to do, I think we are on the right track but I think I would like to hear your input.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to thank council for the opportunity to be part of the team that helps address this issue.
Obviously, I perceive council's frustration and desire to take action.
I just want to thank the support that the administration has provided Mr. Martin, and Mr. Smith, in the city attorney's office, and working with Curtis Wayne in code enforcement.
I believe that council's message has been communicated loud and clear, and I have been able to help communicate council's desires on your behalf, and my intention is that this is an ongoing process that we stay on top of it, that we support the administration in streamlining the processes and make it more efficient, because obviously this is a quality of life issue that your constituents feel very strongly about.
>> We appreciate that, Mr. Shelby.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, colleagues, for being here last week for this important meeting, and just sorry that more council members weren't able to come, but I understand that.
But we did have a good, lively discussion on the various points of the ordinance that was brought up.
And we also asked for additional hearing masters and hearings.
And I think the administration is probably going to work on that.
They certainly need the help.
And there are a lot of cases out there that really need to be resolved.
A lot of these cases have to go to the county court as soon as possible.
They are working on that, too.
We also asked the budget department to check on a fund for the code enforcement so that they will have their own funds from the fines that are generated from these violations.
I did have some correspondence from Mr. Stefan, and if Mr. Stefan would like to step up and kind of give us an overview of what you sent us.
I don't know if everybody got one.
But we did find out, too, that the laptops are all installed and we are waiting for the Hanson software to be installed, and so that should be coming by June.
So they are making progress.
It's just a slow process going on, and I guess we just have to be patient.
But the code enforcement people are doing their -- as much as they can with what they have.
And the board is doing as much as they can with what they have.
So I appreciate all the work that Mr. Shelby did, and of course Jorge Martin for pitching in on this ordinance and bringing it back to us so quick.
I was expecting it maybe in a couple of weeks or so.
But this was good.
So with all that said, I would like to hear from Mr. Stefan as to how we can give the Code Enforcement Board some funds.
>>JIM STEFAN: I didn't bring the piece of paper that I should.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I've got one.
>>JIM STEFAN: I just put together some facts on the different revenues that are currently being received by the Code Enforcement Board, and the one like line for each of the personnel operating the equipment for code enforcement, and you can see over the last couple of years that there's been a significant increase in the personnel costs for code enforcement, and the revenues of just increasing at an itemized rate.
And I think that council had mentioned something about possibly increasing the fines.
And I had some conversations with Curtis about that.
And I think he's looking into it.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In summation, what you see what the figures before us, what we get, the revenues we receive from fines aren't nearly as great as our expenditures on personnel.
We know that to do a better job of code enforce; we need additional personnel, and therefore council directed legal to give us the opportunity to increase the fines.
And these aren't fines like people who own their own homes and is a first-time violation.
These are fines targeted at repeat violators who are in effect commercial slum lords.
And I think it's responsible of us to pay for the personnel, find them and clean up the city.
I would like to take the resolution prepared by Mr. Martin and move it.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
Question on the motion?
>>ROSE FERLITA: Just a comment.
I wasn't planning to say anything else.
But when Mrs. Saul-Sena said this I think we need to continue to reiterate that, that while we are totally supportive of even more efficient code enforcement, the code enforcement arm is not simply something that comes out there and is the initiative that goes into our society.
There is something for senior citizens, I don't know.
But if there are extenuating circumstances, I think Mr. Lane and Mr. Doherty have that.
We need to have that.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Madam Chairman, I would reiterate, too, that I would like for the administration to find some money to put in this code enforcement fund, to help with the -- with the code enforcement officers, that some of these fines, and revenues, need to have their own pocket.
So I would really ask the administration to look into that, and make up a fund for them.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I didn't say it properly.
Is the proper thing to do the request to legal to bring it back to us for a first public hearing?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: It should be on for first reading, should be placed on first reading.
I would ask two things.
Number one is perhaps to do that in a couple of weeks, to allow for council to take a look at this and review it to see if there are any changes that should be made or could be made for suggestions beforehand.
I want to share with council that I do have the opportunity, and I will be meeting Monday, with one of the hearing officers who wanted to discuss with me his perspective, and perhaps he may have some suggestions that may be able to be incorporated.
I'll work with Mr. Martin, if there are any suggestions that need to be addressed before it comes back to council.
So that would be my request that the motion be made to have this ordinance prepared to be placed on a future agenda, perhaps in the next two weeks.
The other suggestion would be if council member Alvarez wishes to have the demonstration and/or the request of the administration to look into the possibility of creating a special fund to do that also in the form of a motion.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, you withdraw your motion?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I would like to put it on the --
>> you made a motion.
We have to withdraw that.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
Move to withdraw.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And second.
(Motion carried)
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to bring this back on February 3rd at our regular council meeting under unfinished business.
Why don't we put it at a time certain?
Say 10:00.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Next week begins our new order of business on our new agenda order.
So rather than having it for a time certain, do you want to have it under unfinished business then?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What would you recommendation, Mr. Shelby?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Why don't we just ask the clerk to put it under unfinished business and we'll see how the process works.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be my motion then.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
Question on the motion?
(Motion carried)
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I'd like to make a motion to with the -- request the administration to find the money to put in a special fund for the code enforcement.
To create a fund for code enforcement.
To investigate.
Whatever works.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
Mr. Vince Pardo.
>>VINCE PARDO: Ybor City Development Corporation.
Speaking this morning on item C under unfinished business.
Is the Elmo functional this morning?
>>GWEN MILLER: It will come up.
>>VINCE PARDO: Is the Elmo functioning this morning?
>>GWEN MILLER: They are coming to fix it.
>>VINCE PARDO: Two weeks ago we had a request from Don Barco, owner of King Corona Cigars in Ybor City, to repeal city ordinance 2000-275, which in the year touchdown in the opening of Centro Ybor, actually closed 16th street as a roadway into a pedestrian way.
The traffic I'm showing you now is actually a conceptual plan we showed you back when you approved that.
And it showed the establishment of the Centro Ybor parking garage, the landscaping plan developed around that, the greenway, and also this area between the railroad tracks and 7th Avenue was redesigned as a pedestrianway.
It still functions as a street.
As you remember we redid it with red brick.
We widened the sidewalks at that point in time, put in the granite curbing, put in lamp posts, and Mayor Greco wanted the feel when you walk out of the garage that you actually felt you were on 7th Avenue already.
That has functioned quite some time.
We met with the property owners on both sides of the alley from 15th to 17th at that point both from the north and south abutment of the alley, because we realized in closing that we were in fact carrying some of their rights in the back alleys, goods and services and things.
Someone that pulls into the back such as Mr. Barco and may want to unload cigars out of his truck and into his business has to pull out onto 16th street which still functions as a one-way street when a vehicle is permitted to be on that avenue.
It has been cumbersome because they have to get the parking department staff from the garage to actually lock the gate and go back in that area.
As Mr. Barco's letter indicates and memorandum that I sent to the administration, I coordinated some meetings on behalf of Mr. Barco and some of the property owners to deal with some of the property issues back there and out of that meeting came a recommendation, why don't we just reopen 16th Street as a roadway?
The crowds have never been such, that the sidewalks cannot contain them walking 7th Avenue.
Property owners on both sides of the alley, everyone has agreed with that.
I have met, including in those meetings with the department of solid waste, transportation, TPD, city legal staff, code enforcement, parking department itself, and my office, Ybor City Development Corporation.
All of the departments have also concurred that they saw no problem opening that up.
In doing that, what we in effect would be doing would be allowing traffic to then go down on 16th Street, again remember this is a one-way street.
Traffic cannot go north on this because of the CSX railroad.
It would allow the property owners to leave their alley and exit without having to get the key from the parking department, so to speak, to exit that alley.
It also would allow us for some development for the building that's here because you would be able to have 16th street as a corridor.
If there's work on the 1500 block or 1600 block we have to close 7th Avenue for a two block span.
It allows the cadence of one block each at that particular point.
So staff concurs with Mr. Barco's request and requests that you consider canceling ordinance without 2002-275.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Excellent idea.
I think it shouldn't have been closed in the first place.
It just messes up the grid for Ybor City.
My question, Mr. Pardo, is the basketball court we have in there, would that impede anything when they are using that court?
You know, by keeping it open for two-way traffic, does that constitute a safety issue?
>>> No, ma'am.
The public restrooms, where it says greenway, public restrooms have been installed immediately off of 16th street.
And the basketball courts are actually -- approximately where it was greenway now in that location.
We actually installed a fence at CSX's request, when we did have tournaments and crowds, they wouldn't be backing onto the railroad line.
>>> Thank you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm so pleased with this response.
Does council need to take some action to rescind this previous ordinance?
>>> My understanding is S you need to authorize the city attorney's office to draft a resolution repealing the ordinance.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>VINCE PARDO: Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Steve Daignault.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Good morning, council members.
Steve Daignault, administrator for public works and utility services here to talk today about number 5.
Item number 5 on the agenda which is stormwater in Tampa.
Certainly you all will recall the storms this past summer really ravaged the city from one end to the other.
And during the budget process, we had some folks in here talking about stormwater, and we made some commitments to them.
During my prior presentation to the council, I said that we would be back to talk about the stormwater utility fee.
And so here we are.
As we go through here, as I mentioned last time, please remember that we're looking primarily here at stormwater quantity, flooding problems, but that there is a whole other part of stormwater which is the stormwater quality, a permit which regulates the amount of pollutants that go into our discharges, and that's a whole other area of discussion.
So we are not going to be talking about that today.
It takes money.
It takes time.
It takes effort to make sure that we comply with all those things.
But again primarily we are not talking about that today.
We are going to be talking about stormwater and flood relief type projects.
I handed out a copy of the spreadsheet, which is the five-year plan.
It's in your paper copy.
I have given it to you once again because it won't show on our presentation, it won't show well on Elmo, and our stormwater director chuck Walter over here has copies if anyone in the room would like copies of them.
So I think we are ready for the presentation.
Again, we are trying to meet the challenges of the future with regard to stormwater.
This is a picture of Paxton, one of two areas in the city that we really had some significant flooding that get into residential units.
The other areas at 113th street just south of Fowler.
And again during this past storm season, those areas were significantly impacted, and there was a lot of effort that goes on to try to get the water out of there, drained out of there.
There's retention areas.
There's pump stations.
And in the case of the one on Fowler, we deal with the county significantly as well.
This is our overall system.
We have about $300 million worth of infrastructure, 365 miles of pipe, 180 miles of ditches, 104 retention ponds that we maintain, 7 pumping stations, 20,000 inlets, and in an average year we sweep about 21,000 miles of road.
Again that sweeping has to do with the pollution control part.
We have 103 people in the department.
Our primary stormwater issues include structural flooding, degradation of water quality, aging systems, pipes under structures, increased costs to provide services, development impacts to our system, increased regulation, and changing community expectations.
Historically, our stormwater budget looks like this.
The dark line, the black line on the top, is the funding that we have received since 1989.
Fiscal year 1989.
The red line shows what that value has been adjusted for inflation.
So as you can see, we have had a reduced ability to buy or pay for stormwater type projects.
The top box here shows what -- where our stormwater funding comes from.
We had roughly 2 million from stormwater utility fee, roughly 3.9 million comes from utility tax, and 6.5 comes from ad valorem.
Of our total 12.4 million dollar budget the bottom box shows how we spent that.
And I don't know why that one is upside down.
It's not upside down on the chart.
But anyway we spent 8.5 million in operations in maintenance.
The $2 million that we get from the utility fee goes towards that $8.5 million exclusively.
And then we spend roughly 3.9 million dollars on capital projects.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: What's the difference between the utility tax category and the utility fee category?
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Just a minute tax -- well, I don't know if Bonnie wants to answer that one.
I'll let Bonnie answer that one for you.
>>BONNIE WISE: Bonnie Wise, director of revenue and finance.
The utility fee is the stormwater utility fee that we implemented a year and a half ago.
So that's the $2 million.
The utility tax is the tax that goes on services, including water, gas, that goes on your City of Tampa utility bill, for example.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Our approach is to try to move towards having all of the operations and maintenance fully funded by the stormwater utility fee.
Again, we currently receive about $2 million from that fee.
And it goes towards $8.5 million worth of operations and maintenance.
And in the capital projects are funded with the utility tax, the ad valorem and grants and other sources.
And we have had some good success with grants.
The issue with you grants is that we have to have money in our budget for matching whatever the grant amount is.
So it requires we have money to make money.
This particular chart shows where the City of Tampa ranks with regard to its stormwater utility fee relative to many other cities in Florida, including many in the area.
Clearwater, St. Pete, Dunedin, Tarpon Springs, Largo. The City of Tampa is low end of that spectrum.
This is what we are proposing.
We would like to increase the annual stormwater utility fee from $12 on average to $36 on average.
Again for operations and maintenance.
We would also like to have a bond issue of about $20 million.
And that would give us for a five-year plan, from fiscal 2006 to 2010, a capital work program of roughly $60 million.
And the reason that that's significant is that if you remember a slide or two back, we talked about 3.9 million a year for capital projects.
We have some projects that are in the 8 to $12 million cost just for that project.
And at $3.9 million a year, we'll never get to those projects.
They will just keep being pushed off because we have to accumulate dollars over time, or we have to do nothing for several years until we amass enough money.
So after this proposal, the City of Tampa would move above Lakeland and still in par with old March and below again many of the others.
It would still be a very modest stormwater fee.
But it would allow us to do a bond, and it would generate $4 million more that we could ultimately use for all these capital projects that need to be done around the city.
This slide shows -- I'm sorry, I've gone too far.
We missed a couple of slides in here.
I apologize.
I don't know why that is.
We can put them on Elmo.
Maybe that would be helpful.
Can we show this on Elmo?
There we go.
This slide shows the stormwater budget, again without the bond issue, it shows that again the amount of utility, amount of ad valorem and the amount of stormwater utility fee that we get currently for $12.8 million, if this were approved, the stormwater utility would go up to $6 million, which means the total budget would go to $16.4 million.
And then I need to show one more on Elmo.
This is where those funds would go.
This would allow us to increase our capital from 3.9 to.9 and operations would stay the same for $16.4 million.
Let's go back to the presentation.
Currently this is what the stormwater rates look like.
On the left the residential assessment rates.
If you're in a small -- it based on impervious space.
So if you are in a residence that is a small impervious space, currently you pay $7.20 a year.
If it's a medium -- and that's the majority is a medium size.
It would be $12 per year.
Large would be $19.92 per year.
Very large would be $33.84.
And then you can see if we increased that three times, or tripled it, it would be $21.96 a year for small, $36 again on average for medium, $59.76, and 101.52 for very large.
It's important to note here that the folks, for example in New Tampa, who are in a gated or managed community, that if they do not contribute at all to the city's system, they pay nothing.
The folks who are in areas where it's significantly reduced because of the system that they have in, they get a $10% reduction off of their respective fee.
And that 10% would continue.
On the right-hand side you see what the commercial rates would be again after this proposal, if this proposal was accepted.
And commercial areas, of course, are almost -- well, the ones that we used here, for example, are 100% impervious, considering the building and the parking lot around it.
There it is.
Okay.
The $36 annual fee again, on average, would allow us to use the U-tax to be available for a $20 million bond issue.
Back to the bond.
It would allow to us do 34 of the top 95 stormwater management projects throughout the city.
It would allow us to get major infrastructure rehabilitation projects and start a pipe replacement program.
We have not had a pipe replacement program.
If we are ever going to get ahead of the curve of just fixing it when it breaks, we need to get to this point where we can replace pipes in advance.
This is the point in the presentation again where that five-year spreadsheet that I handed out would be seen.
This five-year plan shows the projects that we would intend to do.
It includes the $20 million, or the revenue, the procedures from the bond issue.
It includes the debt service on the bond issue.
It specifically lists the projects and the years that we would anticipate doing them.
The top part is fixed costs.
When I say fixed, it is costs that we have to incur in order to get to do construction projects.
And by that, I mean it is the design, it's the property acquisition, it's the right-of-way acquisition, it's any permitting, those sorts of things.
So those sorts of things have to be covered.
But what we are talking about here is projects.
Okay, we are not talking about more studies.
We are talking about real projects.
And it's also significant for me to mention here that we are also not talking about additional staff.
This is size such that we think that we can do this with our current staff.
So again I wanted to mention both of those facts.
Back to the presentation.
This sheet, this map, shows where those projects that we are proposing for the next five years are laid out.
They are throughout the city.
And it shows by color variation the time frame that we would be working under.
People ask, what does at that time to be on the list?
These are the prioritization items that we consider when we consider a project to go on the list.
And that includes public health and safety, flooding frequency and depth.
And by that you need to know that we are concerned about whether or not you have water in your street or on your property or in your house.
And certainly those people with water in their house have a certain higher operator to us than just water in the streets.
Water quality benefits.
It's something we need a permit to correct.
The condition of the existing situation in that area.
The cost of construction.
The number of structures being impacted.
And then business damages being avoided.
Those are the things that you need to get on the list.
Again those are part of the criteria.
These bottom four items we considered, too.
That's emergency vehicle access, protection of evacuation routes, geographically balanced and design concept status.
In other words, do we have a plan and a solution for this?
And is it under design?
When will it be ready to actually go to construction?
So we still have some additional action.
We will have to come back to the council as part of the budget process and ask for your approval.
There needs to be a public hearing and a vote sometime between July 15th and September 15th so that we can put this on the tax rolls.
We also, as we go through the budget process each year, we will add a year.
This is a five-year plan.
But as we budget for one, we will add another planning year to the five-year plan.
So it will continue.
And then we'll also have to come back for approval of the bond issue as well.
That doesn't mean everything is taken care of.
Again, we still have these future challenges.
We have the remainder of the 95 stormwater projects that are on the list.
We have major infrastructure rehabilitation projects that need to be taken care of including pipes under structures.
Continuation of the infrastructure, replacement program, surface water quality regulation.
Again the total maximum daily loads.
We don't totally know what the impact is going to be and therefore what the cost is going to be to are for these.
We are going to continue with our basin studies which help us determine where we have quality and flooding problems.
Response to changing community expectations.
And then support of geographic information system.
Getting this information down on GIS so that it's a lot more easy to deal with.
And so we are asking that you would support the rate resolution when it comes in July.
But at this point we would really ask that you perhaps make a motion to support our proposed increase on the bond issue.
Again knowing that those are still going to have to come back to council for approval in the future.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Mr. Daignault, for bringing this to us.
I have a couple of questions.
When we had the storms back in August and September, did those storms contribute to the flooding that we had in the various streets?
Like Dale Mabry and Neptune?
>>> Absolutely.
>> Were we able to ask FEMA for reimbursement on that?
>>> Well, FEMA has, as far as the clean-up, yes.
If we had damage to buildings, FEMA was able to respond, yes.
But FEMA is not giving us funding to change our stormwater system.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: The other question I had was on the capital improvement program that you had here.
I noticed that it's about $15 million for this year.
>>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Are we fully funded for that?
>>> Well, the one that you're looking at here is for fiscal year '06.
Is that correct?
If you're looking on this five-year.
ful be '06 at the end of this year's budget process which will be approved at the end of the year.
>> So these projects will be fully funded with the proposed increase or without the proposed increase?
>>> These would only be funded with the proposed increase.
Yes, ma'am.
>> The other question I had was, we talked about the different cities.
Were they on a graduated basis like we are going to be?
Or are they flat fees?
How did that come about?
>>> I have a spread sheet to show you.
Each city is different.
Some people do it -- there are some cities base it on total property.
And we do it on impervious surface.
The majority of them do use some sort of impervious surface parameter or basis.
So what we have given you is based on the information that we got from them, as close as we can be to an apples to apples comparison, based on what the homeowner pays.
>> Well, I think we need to do this.
It's long overdue.
We need to get stormwater under control.
And so I will support this motion whenever it comes up.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you very much.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Daignault, I have a question.
You have identified 95 projects, priority, these are projects we really have to get done.
And this plan would allow us to do 34 of those projects.
>>> That's correct.
>> And that's a $20 million bond issue to do that.
Is that correct?
>>> That's correct.
>> So is it wrong to say that if we to address all 95 of those projects, we just take the 20 million and multiply it by 3.
So for 60 million, could we do all 95?
>>> Yes.
But please keep in mind, 95 is not the end of the process.
That doesn't mean, therefore, we're done and there are no others.
But, yes, it would address the 95 that are currently on the list.
Yes, sir.
>> And the reason I ask that is because all of us recognize a problem exists.
We all know that it's there.
And we all know it's got to be dealt with.
And this administration, to its credit, is tackling this problem, and they are thinking about ways to do it.
And what I wonder is, is it not better to just solve the problem?
I mean, it's like taking a Band-Aid off.
You can take it off little by little and it hurts for a long time.
But it doesn't hurt very much.
Or you can just rip it off and it hurts a lot but it's for a very short period of time.
And so shouldn't we be looking at that as a possible way to go about this, too?
>>> You're correct.
What we've done, again, is recognize that there are some of those projects that are very expensive, 8 and $12 million level of projects.
So we have tried to size this so that we can cover those projects.
An increase from 12 to $36 would generate over the next five years $20 million, and then the $20 million bond issue would give us -- that would be a $60 million program over the five years.
So it's basically going to be $40 million more than we would have if we do nothing.
Again it keeps us at the modest end.
We recognize that there are other utility needs throughout the city, and that we know -- and these are some of the problems we had again back during the storms -- we know that we have some wastewater problems that we are going to be coming to address.
We are doing a rate study on them as well.
So this is specific to stormwater.
It gets us over the hump.
It certainly allows us to do some of the big ones.
It puts in place a program that allows us to start making a dent into some of these larger projects.
But again, please don't think that 95 is the end.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, I know that.
And that's why I have an issue with you this.
Because in five years, there's going to be a new council, and the administration is going to be coming to that new council and saying, all right, now et cetera it's time to pony up again.
And at that point, to get those next 34 projects on the list, we may be going from $36 a month to $100 a month.
You know, the price is going to keep going up as prices keep going up for everything that we do.
We have got these figures.
You have come up with your estimates.
Have you done that estimation work?
Have you done any consulting with the private business world to see what they could do this for?
>>> You're talking about the construction?
>> Yes.
>>> We have not gone to the private sector to see what they could do it for.
But you know we would contract this out.
I mean, this would be done by contractors.
So we have the historical information that we have based on all the projects that we have done to date which tells us, gives us a pretty good feel for what it would cost to do these projects.
>> Well, it would seem to me -- and I don't want to get into editorializing.
This is a question-and-answer session.
But it would seem like a better approach would be take our list of projects, take it out to the private business world, and say, we're going to shop this.
We are going to get RFPs for. This we think the problem might be $100 million.
If we give it to the private sector and allow them to bid on it, that problem may only be 75 or $80 million.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's exactly what we will do.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: But we are basing this increase on what your estimation of the costs are.
We may not have to take this full increase in order to solve the problem.
That's my point.
How much homework with the private sector have we done to come up with these figures?
>>> We have a very good idea of what it will cost to city to contract out for these projects.
A very good idea.
>> That's based on the city doing the work --
>>> no, no.
This is based on contracting it out, sir.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: But contracting it out, does that mean that once you have a project, you go out for RFPs on that particular project and you get the best price?
>>> Absolutely.
And we award it to the low bid sneer still doing it project by project.
We haven't cost out the price of the problem by taking all 95 projects and saying, here's the problem the City of Tampa has.
Can we do it for cheaper, which would result in us maybe not having to take this full increase that you think that we have to take?
>>> I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.
But it's virtually going to be impossible with our current staff and with our current funding to go bid shop all 95 projects at one time.
And I don't know how we could do that.
I'm not even sure there's a contractor out there that could do it, bid on it, hold his price and get it done in a year or two or three.
So, again, we have used all of the city's established procedures.
We have a very good idea of what it costs to do these projects, what it costs to design them, and based on our current staff, we know how many, approximately, we can get through the system at a time.
Again I'm not sure what else we could do.
>>GWEN MILLER: Listening to what Mr. Harrison said, if you do all you would have to more than triple, wouldn't you?
>>> Absolutely.
>> I don't know if we want to put that much on the community.
We want to have a level that they can afford and don't want to say we are going to go above the 36 now to say what we were going to do.
I don't think the community would accept that.
We need to keep it at a balance where we can afford to do what we want to do.
>>> Yes, ma'am.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. White.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Daignault, I have reviewed this with some of your staff.
And some of the questions I have, I looked at the map that you presented with us, or presented to us, rather.
With the exception of Mr. Harrison's area which is New Tampa which basically the infrastructure is new up there so there's not that many problems.
But you have color diagram over the entire city with the different color with the proposed year that these projects are going to be done.
But by the same token, we have the project prioritization chart.
And the first two are the public health and safety which is very important as well as the flooding and the depth of the water.
It's also a very important problem.
The questions that I have been bombarded with, and some of the e-mails, even though it looks like you have some proposed projects in the East Tampa area, East Tampa area that I represent is on basically a no-flood area, one of the highest areas of the city.
And we don't have that much of a flooding problem.
There's infrastructure problem.
But there's not that much of a flooding problem when you have the heavy rains and things of that nature.
And the main concern is, well, will this area drop down further and further and further on the prioritization list because -- and basically be forgotten about, once again, because they don't necessarily have the flooding problems?
And will the people of South Tampa, which has dreadful flooding problems, will all of that, all of the attention be put on South Tampa to fix those problems based on the backs of New Tampa, which has no problems, and East Tampa residents, who basically have.
No flooding problems, but also that the lowest economic level of society here, as well as fixed income and things of that nature, and they are going to be paying for problems that they don't necessarily have.
So I would just like some assurance from you how the priority of these situations are going to be handled, in the East Tampa and northeast Tampa, you know, aren't going to be left out, or go to the bottom of the totem pole again in this prioritization list, based on what you have listed.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir.
If I could, first of all, the New Tampa area, again many of them pay nothing because their area is managed.
They don't contribute to the city's load and the city doesn't provide service so they pay nothing and many above Fletcher get a 10% reduction.
In the East Tampa area, quite honestly, sir, some of the worst parts of the city are in East Tampa.
We have parts over there that have no drainage structure at all.
As those areas build out, they will start having flooding problems.
Currently they have open land.
And that land is able to hold the water and the water then can perk into the ground.
As those areas build out, they will start having flooding problems.
Now, we are in there looking right now at that area.
We are buying land for the purpose of retention areas.
So we are not doing big projects in there yet, but we are certainly planning, and are watching that area of the city, and certainly when the time comes, the money, I hope, will be there to address those construction projects as a result of something like this increase.
Also, Ybor is getting considerable attention as a result of this.
>>KEVIN WHITE: I guess the general concern is, people that are in East Tampa that are actually paying fees now, not on vacant land where they really don't see the flooding issues, and I'd like some specifics, maybe later, not right now, but some of the areas, because I don't have that many concerns, like when these big storms came through.
There wasn't that much of an e-mail interest you were coming in and saying, oh, I'm flooded, hurry up over here with stormwater.
Basically, I want to make sure that it's fair and equitably distributed if I'm going to support this.
>>> Absolutely.
>> Because I want to make sure that my constituency is going to be looked after as well, and some of these capital improvement projects are going to move forward.
>>> Absolutely.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
Mrs. Saul-Sena before you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, I think you did a very good job of laying out what our problems are.
I think the administration has taken a very modest approach to increasing this because I understand the breadth of the problem and the amount of money it's going to tab to solve it.
Many people from the environmental community are here today because they care about the health of the bay and the health of the river, and they understand that stormwater pollution is one of the key sources of pollution in our river.
And if we volume it, which -- value it, which know this administration, if they want to clean it up, we need to address the quality of the stormwater that's come out.
And -- so I think this is really important.
Mr. White, a lot of your area has -- your lucky constituents have the Hillsborough River running through their neighborhoods, and the quality of the river really is impacted by this.
And I want to ask Madam Chairman, after the council members each have a chance to speak, if we could waive our rules to allow the public here to address us could speak on stormwater.
>>GWEN MILLER: That will be next anyway.
Mr. Dingfelder.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
I think it's important for us all to remember that we are one city.
We are the City of Tampa.
We are not the city of South Tampa, East Tampa, north Tampa, or west Tampa.
And when there's a problem or a need, we all come to each other's aid.
And there's no argument that -- I don't think there can be any argument that in recent years East Tampa has probably had a greater police need and the rest of the city funds that, and people don't come down here and object to that.
In north Tampa and New Tampa, there's some significant transportation needs that the rest of the city will be addressing in a major, major way.
Both with local and state and local federal money.
So I don't want us to break down and facilitate.
All seven of us sit here day in and day out, week in and week out to address needs across -- across the entire city.
In regard to Mr. Harrison's comment, Mr. Daignault, I think you need to quickly remind us approximate of the -- of the number of engineers that we have in the city staff, in the stormwater department, who have looked at this for a number of years, and come up with these best guesstimates.
They are not exact by any means.
And also, Steve, the fact that you have come to us from the department of the Navy, you know, where you were building shipyards and projects as big or bigger than this for many, many years.
So give us a little bit on that.
A little more confidence in our estimating ability.
>>> We have a design staff who do many of our stormwater designs in-house.
It's a small group, about four engineers that do the design.
But they are very capable, very knowledgeable in the stormwater area.
They know again from historical information and all these projects that we've done, what the cost of putting pipe in the ground is.
We also have, as you know, our wastewater department and our water department that also put pipe in the ground, we will also contract out.
So we have a wealth of contract information.
And you know with the administration department that's one of the advantages of doing that, is now you can look at how are your beds coming in?
What's the cost per foot of concrete pipe of 30 inch diameter in the ground?
So again, I think the city has some very good information.
Now please don't think we don't ever talk to the consultant world, because we do.
But again, we feel pretty comfortable with these numbers.
Again, we know inflation is going to hit us over the next five years.
We think some of these will come in under and some will come in over.
But by and large we feel comfortable with these numbers and these projects going forward.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the other thing I wanted to mention was, you have spread out these 30-something projects over five years.
I'm going to assume that one of the reasons we have done that is for contract management purposes.
Because if we try and take on too much, we are averaging five or six major projects a year, that's a lot for the city.
If we take on too much more than that, three times more than that, I think we could feel ourselves overwhelmed with too many projects to manage.
Would that be accurate?
>>> That would be accurate.
As I said, this is sized so that our current staff can deal with it, and it takes care of the proceeds from the $20 million bond up front, and then flows from there.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
>>GWEN MILLER: Council members?
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I was going to make an observation that I took the residential assessment rates, and for a small unit based on the 21.96, that's only $1.85 a month that we are talking about.
$3 a month for medium.
$5 a month for large.
And $8.50 for the very large.
Some of these are less than a pack of cigarettes.
Or six-pack of beer.
So what I'm saying is, this is a city-wide problem, not just various areas.
So, Mr. Daignault, you have done a fine job in giving us your figures.
And like Mr. Dingfelder said, it's all our problem, not just one area.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Ferlita.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'd like to weigh in on this in terms of an opinion as well.
Last week, when I read an article in the newspaper, the Tribune or times, I don't know which, I felt we still had the opportunity and responsibility of looking at other options.
So I want to get some things off the table that I requested last week so there's some clarification.
At that time I talked about the possibility of looking at the franchise agreement fee.
And I think -- I don't think, I know that you and I and chuck and Bonnie Wise yesterday had a very productive meeting.
And just to clarify where I was, when I was saying that and what you came back to me with makes sense.
And I a remember around the dais, particularly at that end over there from Mr. Dingfelder, because he wasn't here last term, that looks interesting and let's look at it.
Well, when we break down your proposal, it shows that this is going to be a tax, and it is a tax, a tax increase to all areas of the city.
Perhaps there are some inequities in terms of Tampa.
At the time, I truly have to tell you that I was not aware of the fact that if any resident, not necessarily New Tampa, was in a gated community, they are exempt because they are paying that structure to be able to take care of streets, problems, et cetera, in addition to which people with new construction or new development have a 10% reduction.
So that makes sense, to look then at the stormwater as opposed to the franchise.
Because of the fact that -- and stop me anyplace, Steve, if you think I'm wrong or you want to add on.
Bonnie as well.
It was not to be adversarial to which you were recommending.
It was simply to review, just like what Mr. Harrison has offered and everybody else around here.
When you look at the franchise fee, just to get that out of the way, okay?
It's evenly distributed.
Everybody shares.
So then we have the opportunity with that money to do something that will address maybe just, as an example from our dialogue, we have more property, we have more development, we have more open space in New Tampa.
Possibly franchise fee increases could be used, as he suggested, perhaps for parks, recreation, those type things.
And you're not saying that's written in stone, Bonnie, so that's why I feel discussing some of our conversation that we had behind closed doors, and that makes sense because everybody has been into this.
So that looked to me like something that we really need to research, we really need to utilize, we need to bring it up, and all we are doing is bringing it up to the other municipalities, but at the same time we have a broad spectrum contribution, we have a broad spectrum review of who needs more recreation, parks or that type of thing.
So put that to rest.
And I hope that comes back to us in a reasonable amount of time so we can use that money to improve, not necessarily to collect more, but simply as a pass-through, to use that as a revenue to provide better services for our constituency.
That's what this is about.
Are you okay with my interpretation so far?
>>> Yes.
>> I think as we become smarter as a government we learn from our mistakes.
My reaction was knee-jerk because of the fact I didn't hear enough from you or Bonnie or from the administration.
I heard it from the times or the Tribune.
It's not a good business practice.
And I think we quietly alluded to that yesterday.
I am very hopeful and very confident that in the future we will hear the details of programs like this.
And this is not scolding.
This is saying let's do better together, because more harmony produces better end results.
Let's hear from you, from these type of situations as opposed to the newspaper, when they hear it first and they ask us for comments, and my colleagues and I don't know enough about it to make a conscientious remark or input.
So that being said, that's out of the way.
Now we go back to the stormwater issue.
And I guess we are all trying to find ways to make this fair.
And I have said, don't have a problem saying it again and again and again, this administration has inherited this.
So someplace it has to stop.
I know people that have less stormwater issues don't think it's fair.
And let me say how I can say this in a very diplomatic way because I certainly don't mean to offend anybody here because we all do, I think, a heck of a job in terms of what our constituents voted as to do.
But you have two categories here.
You have the single-member district representatives, that certainly get charged with the complaints from their area, like Mr. Harrison, or Mr. White, and Ms. Alvarez.
So their concerns more and they should be keyed in to their concerns.
Then you have three city-wide representatives who perhaps do the right thing for South Tampa, the right thing for New Tampa.
So we all struggled in our own regard and reall try to find something that's fair N.some cases one child needs more attention, and in some case it is other child may be good but still has to suffer through the process of discipline.
Stormwater issues are, although it is predominantly in South Tampa, we have situations that maybe are not specific to stormwater, although the predominant amount isn't in South Tampa.
There are other areas, in Forest Hills and different places where we have pipes and infrastructure that need to be retrofitted.
It's a hard call, Steve.
We are all trying to do the best we can, and still not push away from the dais with egg on our face.
You have shown us some documentation that substantiates your position.
You have shown us that $12 versus what other municipalities charge, $36 even, the suggested amount now, versus what other municipalities charge, is still fair, reasonable, less than the average.
The last time we had this conversation, and I think you were new on board, I had only written support for $12, I vehemently opposed it for a number of reasons.
And I think my reasons were well stated and well reiterated that people in this city are tired, tired, tired of studies.
And although some of this ongoing attempt to fix the stormwater issues has to have some component of studies, I think you have assured me, and I feel comfortable, that the majority of that $36 is not going to be for studies.
It going to be "do something."
Now, I like to listen to everybody's suggestion because we are all trying to get to where we need to be legislative, administrative, to get this off the dime.
I listened at first with interest to Mr. Harrison's suggestion, and it's a good concept, if we have perhaps a better amount of money than we have.
Certainly when you buy homes sometimes, and your finances are limited, you want to buy the best product for that money.
But where you would like to have a bigger home, sometimes don't have the finances to do it.
So you buy a smaller home and fix one thing at a time.
And although the construction costs are going up, you add a room, add a recreation room, a sun room.
So I would although I would like to hit the taxpayers one time and one time only, I don't know where we would get the money.
We are struggling to get through this.
This is one suggestion you made on your list of things to do.
Another thing I would like to mention to the listening public is this is not necessarily that we are voting on this now.
We have had more conversation and a more productive relationship than I can tell you in a long, long time.
And I have been chairman before Mr. Dingfelder of public works.
So I was well in tune with the department with the department you lead.
Again, Mr. Shelby, please input if you think I'm incorrect.
This is simply a presentation to try to tackle a problem that in these case, in South Tampa predominantly, but ultimately everybody is going to suffer or benefit.
We don't like to say the less affluent people have to pay.
But that's the process of government.
That's the process of trying to have our system go better, where we have stormwater issues that are predominant, perhaps maybe law enforcement is needed somewhere else.
So it's a wash at the end although it doesn't seem because we are just just talking about this, this and this.
If I'm wrong then I am going to have a problem supporting this.
It's my interpretation that what we are doing today is anticipating what you are going to do in terms of making us feel even better between now and the budget time.
We are giving you the yellow light to go forward with a procedure that perhaps is going to cost something in terms of organizing.
And if you get a no across the dais, probably you are not going to go forward with this.
And I think in an effort to improve government, you are going to let us tell you -- we are going to give you the yellow light, not the green one, and we are not stopping you short.
I can speak for myself.
We are giving you the opportunity to continue showing us why we do our research further, instead of in a very small amount of time, while we each do our due diligence and look at the fact that perhaps this is a good thing.
And if we come up with better ways to configure it, I have a feeling you are going to hear from us, and if you find your way is the best to configure it then I am going to support you.
But I know we will get some approval and disapproval from the extent on at least favorable no more studies but giving us an idea that this can be repaired and giving you the go ahead to look into it further, and support it at this point.
And I think that's a very fair way to tell where you I am.
And I really appreciate the conversation and the meeting we had from you, chuck and Bonnie yesterday.
I really appreciate it.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you.
My only comment back would be, it's not just in South Tampa.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I know that.
But perception, Steve, is the root of all kind of concerns.
It is not.
Obviously it's not.
>> Drew Park.
Ybor.
East Tampa.
>> Forest Hills.
I know that.
So what I am saying is in this case we go around and they need it more, it's not just totally them.
We are going to go into other issues.
Other department heads are going to come up and maybe South Tampa takes a back seat to a transportation issue.
But it's okay.
We are still members of the same community and working together.
It comes out with a better end product.
Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to get a motion.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: To what?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A rate increase for bond issue and to understand Mr. Daignault will be coming back with additional information on items that are prepared for us to vote on.
>>GWEN MILLER: To give the administration a chance to go back --.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would feel more comfortable holding this in abeyance, hearing from the public and hearing the questions that arise.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: You can make a motion to waive the rules.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to waive the rules.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Good idea, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
>>GWEN MILLER: Before we go to the audience portion we will go to committee reports first.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In deference to audience, if there's a committee item that takes a lot of conversation, let's hold that.
>>GWEN MILLER: We go to public safety.
Rose Ferlita.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Public safety, Rose Ferlita.
Thanks.
Resolution number 19, please.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
Parks and recreation, Kevin White, vice chair.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move resolution number 20.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. John Dingfelder.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 21.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. Kevin White.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move 22 through 26.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 22, the title must be read at second reading, rule 4-E.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Presented for second reading and adoption the resolution amending rule H-E under the rules of procedure governing meetings of the City Council of City of Tampa, modifying order in transaction of business.
>> Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
Building, zoning, Ms. Linda Saul-Sena.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move resolutions 27 through 36.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I move items 37 through 39.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>SHAWN HARRISON: New business items 40 through 43.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Now, do we have anyone in the audience that would like to ask for reconsideration?
Now we go to our audience portion.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, before you do that, can I make a comment on one of the reports?
In an effort to continue more cooperation -- and I mentioned this a few weeks ago, Gasparilla wet zonings, et cetera, at the last minute, and then if we had a problem with it, it would be us that would be the bad guy.
Well, in an effort to dispel any kind of concerns, I do want to acknowledge the fact that Darryl Stephani came to my drugstore as well as Mike a brooks in case we had any concerns and they explained in the a clear fashion so the neighborhoods that are the most impacted don't have any concerns that we are going to have wet zonings into the neighborhoods.
And I think that was one of the things that we had heard.
So thank you very much for the help and for sitting here today, Michael.
Thanks, Madam Chairman.
>>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to our audience portion.
You may start speaking.
>>> I wasn't sure which part you said about.
You said reconsideration or the public?
>>GWEN MILLER: I did reconsideration first.
Nobody wanted reconsideration.
We are at the audience.
Now you may speak.
>>> Well, I stood up but no one stopped.
>> You want to reconsider?
>>> Well, I would just like to address your item number 22.
Let's move on to the stormwater.
>>GWEN MILLER: Now is the time to address number 22.
>>> All right.
Well, perhaps --
>> Your name and address.
>>> My name is Marilyn Smith.
I live on Major Boulevard.
I want to talk about the water and item 22.
It seems to me that you need to be sure that you start outlining what exactly you're talking about.
Because you referred to the public comment time as audience?
Audience denotes entertainment.
Paid for or not.
People don't come here to be entertained.
Public means interface participation, with government.
So I think you need to rearrange some of your words and give better nomenclature on those.
This is not an audience.
These are public voters.
And it's not supposed to be entertainment, although I will admit sometimes you are very entertaining.
Now I'd like to talk about the water.
Stormwater.
Okay?
>>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
>>> Okay.
First of all, I think you need to reallocate some of your money.
You're taking assessments now for a little entertainment car and other venues like Ybor, the Centro Ybor, and you plug money into that, when all along since I moved here almost a quarter century ago, you have had this stormwater problem.
Not you.
We all have.
And nothing has been done about it.
It's been, oh, it will be taken care of some other time.
Well, the time is well passed.
This is not projected with enough money.
You cannot do the corner of Paxton and 6th for half million dollars.
That ain't going to happen.
Somebody is dreaming.
This is way, way, way under funded.
You better go out and get some more figures and don't come back to the public and say, oh, they have to charge more and more.
I know several engineering and this is way underfunded.
I don't understand why you don't do more homework.
And you better do more homework.
You cannot do what you think you are going to do.
It will be a dirty project for the kind of money you are projecting.
20 million is shoddily short for what needs to be done.
Allocate money from the assessment that from the trolley that goes nowhere, bring it over and put in the some real useful thing like a public health safety issue of stormwater.
Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Before we have another person speak, Mr. Shelby wants to say something first.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I'd like to apologize to City Council.
Procedurally, it would be more appropriate -- and I'm sorry I didn't catch this timely -- to have audience comments, citizen comment, before a vote on the consent to allow people to speak.
So that being said, I would like to remedy that by asking council to please consider a motion to reconsider the previously approved consent docket, and then take audience comment.
And then make whatever appropriate motions as a result of the audience comment.
And again I apologize for council for not catching that sooner.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Shelby, it would be better in your opinion for us to focus at this point on the consent docket or stormwater?
We moved to waive the rules for stormwater.
So the comments now should be --.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Still, I believe ultimately you can -- the rules that you decide to waive to address stormwater, you can ask citizen comment now initially to be limited to stormwater at first if that's what you wish to do.
But ultimately it is still my opinion that you will have to, or should, in best practices make a motion to reconsider your previously approved consent agenda items to allow citizen comment, because rightfully that comment may impact upon council's decisions on the consent agenda items.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to reconsider all the consent items just passed.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>> Good morning, council, resident of Tampa.
First I want to thank the mayor, Pam Iorio, for coming forth with a stormwater proposal that will solve many of our problems here in the City of Tampa.
The reason that I came down this morning is because of the editorial that was in the Tampa Tribune on January the 18th.
It talked about the chronic problem of the flooding in Tampa.
And I guess my first concern was, was the tax structure going to be fair to the citizens of Tampa, specifically to the poor citizens, the African-American citizens here in the City of Tampa?
I believe it's important that everyone pay their fair share related to tax increase, and I was really excited to see the assessment rate structure that's in the proposal.
And I'm happy.
It is fair.
For small, medium, large, or very large, you are going to pay a rate based on the size of your structure.
And so it's a fair tax.
And it's a needed tax.
I think it's important that all citizens participate in the good things of Tampa, the new history center, the art museum, Lowry Park, or the Ice Palace, no matter what it is, we want to enjoy the good, so we also have to take part in solving some of the problems that are considered to be bad in our community.
And so I support what's going on here.
But I tell you, this is a large community.
We have a larger body government here in our county, which is called the Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners.
And we are citizens of Hillsborough County as well.
And the only thing that I would ask the administration to do is seek a grant, seek some help from the Board of County Commissioners to help the City of Tampa with the stormwater problem.
I'm not happy that it's going to take ten years to solve all these major issues.
I think we need to ask the county commission to give us some money, and help with this.
I think we should go to Tallahassee and ask the governor to help as well.
I think that's the right thing to do.
(Bell sounds)
And there's no robbery in asking for help.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is Melville, 10,000 east Hillsborough Avenue.
The reason I am very strong in speaking to City Council is I have noticed that small businesses throughout the City of Tampa are being harassed tremendously --
>> which item are you speaking on, sir?
What number?
>>> I'm speaking in regard to the stormwater issue.
>> Okay.
>>> Okay.
That the small businesses want to address the stormwater issue with the City Council if they are in violation or ordinances are truly addressed.
Federal law dictates that when large businesses here in Tampa are operating as a business, the City of Tampa encouraging them on the property and demands that -- are not fair to all.
The City of Tampa has at this point in time deliberately harassing the businesses throughout the city with all kind of nandy-pandy nonsense.
>> what does that have to do with stormwater?
>>> Well, the stormwater situation, what I am trying to say here, is that an inspector or someone who wants to operate a small business can do so.
Usually the small business has no request but to go ahead and comply with whatever is demanded by the city.
That's way want to point out.
Section 11 states that businesses, like the big department stores, have a right --.
>>GWEN MILLER: You need to speak to stormwater because you haven't said one thing about stormwater.
>>> Well, yes, I have.
>> If you don't talk about stormwater we have to let someone else speak.
>>> I understand.
Briefly what I am trying to say is when it comes to stormwater, that a small business, in regard to whatever else is involved, are not treated fairly with the big businesses.
That's what I'm trying to say here.
>> Thank you.
>>> You understand, right?
>> We appreciate it.
Next, please.
>>> Tony Daniel.
Here talking about stormwater.
And councilwoman made a comment to the gentleman in reference to if the storms, the recent storms or flooding that we had had anything to do with the problems down in Neptune and Dale Mabry and some other places.
The reality is, it shows that this City Council and other City Councils and other mayors and other entities inside government don't respond to the people.
Neptune and Dale Mabry has been flooding for 30 years.
Henderson and Dale Mabry have been a disaster for 30 years.
Bayshore had been a disaster for over 30 years.
And no response, no nothing.
And it shows how the city does business, because even procedurally they went ahead and voted on something before all the people who want to speak didn't even have an opportunity to make a single comment.
They are not responsive to the citizenry.
And then the person who represents East Tampa say, well, I think it's going to be unfair, or maybe it might be unfare to T way it's assessed, because we don't have a great problem in flooding in East Tampa.
That's where one of the greatest problems are.
Have you ever been on Lake?
In Central Park, in Robles Park, on Florida Avenue, when it rains?
Not flooding, when it rains.
But this is the reality, that this City Council is not responsive.
And they talk about projects.
They just need to get their butts down there and fix Henderson and Dale Mabry before it even rain again, fix Bayshore Boulevard.
They said, oh, we put $100,000 to fix the stormwater on Bayshore Boulevard.
Absolutely, positively nothing was done.
Other than the traffic guy showed up for about two weeks.
Absolutely positively nothing was done.
When they were bragging about how to fix the balustrades on Bayshore Boulevard they did nothing.
Sometimes you can't get to your homes on Bayshore Boulevard.
Period.
No ifs, ands or buts.
No exaggeration.
It's facts.
Sometimes you can't get to your homes on Robles Park.
You can't get through Henderson an Dale Mabry.
Can't get through it.
Period.
No if, and or but.
These are the people we say we put in to represent us.
In City Council that they don't know what's going on in City Council.
And don't know what's going on in the city.
(Bell sounds)
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good morning.
I'm Paul Compton, 1430 Park Circle in Tampa coming here as the chair of friends of the river, we are an organization of grassroots organization that's advocated for the last five years the restoration of the health and beauty of the Hillsborough River in Tampa Bay.
And certainly support the increase from 12 to 36 dollars for not only for flood prevention which everyone is aware of in our city, but also so that we have the funds necessary for stormwater filtration.
We see on the agenda elsewhere that we have noted the price for the stormwater pilot project of about a half million dollars.
That's real money.
And it's worth every penny.
For years we have advocated the installation of a comprehensive system of stormwater filters.
We can now choose to move towards putting all of our stormwater outfalls into the Hillsborough River and Tampa Bay.
This will go a long ways to restoring the health and beauty of the river and the bay.
The fresh water that flows into the Hillsborough River and the bay every time it rains makes silk as evidenced by fish kills and floating trash,.
Our river needs three things to return to health.
Constant flow of fresh water year round to restore the natural shoreline and stormwater filtration.
This last one is really going to cost us money.
But it's worth it.
The river is the hardest city in our bay and when our waterways are restored to full health, they will be full of fish, they will be full of life and all the businesses and all the residents, property along the river and the waterways will increase in value.
Tampa can really become an urban tropical paradise that it's capable of being.
This very modest tax is a small step towards that.
Many other cities in our state are way ahead of us on cleaning their waterways.
It's time for Tampa to take the step.
I do understand the concerns of Mr. Harrison that we are only funding a third of this project.
$36 is very modest to me.
I understand the concerns of Mr. White that it looks like we are only going to work on the west and south side of town.
I would point out that the stretch of the river between the dam and Sulphur Springs, as well as the portion above the dam where our drinking water comes from, are apparently not being addressed in this five year plan.
I would urge to you reconsider those priorities and to consider not only passing the $36 fee, but also something higher than that.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is Tom Lately, I live at 1310 West Circle Street in Tampa just north of Lowry Park Zoo.
Councilman Ferlita was right, this is a tax increase and that takes courage for any policy maker to do to the citizenry is ask them to come up with more.
And as a citizen here it's not the first thing I want to do.
But in this case it is.
And I'm really excited to come up here here and speak in favor of a stormwater assessment increase because I am going to seek real value for my money.
I happen to live right next to Epps park before I bought my house in north Lowry Park Zoo and that was one of the parks where they put the stormwater improvements in so I got to see it firsthand.
These are real projects.
It's not just studying.
I agree with Ms. Ferlita again that that is something taxpayers don't want to see.
We want to see real improvements.
And if we can actually take care of 35 or so of the it 5 projects, about a third, for a very modest tax increase of $24, that's less than a night out to dinner for me and my partner Ricci.
I say go for it.
That's more than I have in my pocket right now.
For the city here this is going to increased property values because flooding is one of the things that I looked at when I was buying a house, is I went out in the summertime, and I saw when the yards were flooded, and I Mu not to look in that neighborhood.
And I bought in uplands, which is very smart.
And my neighborhood won't be one of the one that is we really look at for stormwater because of that.
Because this is a city-wide problem.
It's going to take a city-wide solution.
I thank the City of Tampa for addressing it.
I thank the City Council for a listening today and taking this up.
Because I for one as a citizen am willing to pay for this type of improvement.
You are not just asking for money that I'll never see an improvement on.
You are asking for money that's going to make a real improvement in my life.
Most of these don't do that on a regular basis.
So I thank you very much for your time.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good morning.
If it's still morning, council members.
Linda Garvey.
I am the Tampa Bay sy area group conservation chair.
And I'd like to read a letter that I'm going to submit from the Sierra Club.
Understanding that the Hillsborough River is the most important natural resource for the City of Tampa, providing most of the potable water for the city residents adding much to the character of the residential area and the downtown urban core and providing exceptional recreational opportunities to visitors and residents alike, the Tampa Bay group and the Sierra Club supports expenditures to clean up the river which is such an asset to all of us.
And so, of course, this tax we hope will eventually go to some of that.
Specifically, we support the installation of stormwater filters that will keep sediment and debris out of the river, improving the quality of the river, and also preventing pollution from reaching the bay.
We feel that it is time to make the sackry face to address the short-falls in investments in our infrastructure.
The future of the river and the bay depend on it.
And some of these issues will help all the residents of the city.
If we clean up the river and keep the bay clean, it helps everyone.
And I hope that in some way, every single resident of the city, and even the county, could contribute something toward this effort.
That's my own I added to it.
So I really do support this.
And hope that you will use some of it to get these filters along the river so that we have a cleaner river and can help the bay.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Still morning.
Good morning.
My name is Ed Rouse, North Klondyke Street in Sulphur Springs.
And I'm naturally involved in a number of environmental groups that I think spoke before me on those issues.
I'm also here representing the Sulphur Springs neighborhood association.
And I would like to also represent myself.
So I want to first talk about Sulphur Springs.
We have one of the highest levels of poverty in the City of Tampa.
You all have talked about, like a lot of people talked about the six-pack of beer and stuff, I work with kids in the neighborhood.
A lost those kids don't even eat in a day.
A lot of my programs I always bring food for them because they don't eat in a day.
And yet our neighborhood feels it's very, very important that we do something in terms of stormwater, not only just for the rest of Tampa but especially for our area.
And our area one of our concerns is the quality of the river.
And to have -- and what is very disappointing to me, we had unequivocal support for this.
But now I would like to make after hearing it a little bit of a reservation.
The area that concerned us the most is totally offer this subject.
When he came up and made that presentation and said, cleaning up the river, stormwater, filters and stuff, is not part of this, if I understood correctly.
I might be wrong.
But I don't hear a lot of that.
I hear stormwater flooding, flooding, flooding, but there's a lot of other things that happen in stormwater.
And I would like to have you make sure that those kinds of concerns are taken care of, especially quality of the river.
As a person who has been involved in the City of Tampa since 1968 when I came to USF as a student, one of the greatest resources and the one thing that kept me here in Tampa was the Hillsborough River.
I have friends that come from all over the country to visit, and they want to see what's on the river.
And it is a resource that is not just for people who live along it.
It for everybody in this country, in a way.
Now, I would like to present the idea that stormwater -- the major problem is coming from north Tampa.
We do not have a lot of the flooding that we had because when you cover over land and wetland, what you do is you create stormwater.
And that stormwater creates flooding.
And I think that we -- y'all should consider anytime that there's a proposal to cover over large areas of land in north Tampa that you make sure that fits in with the model to prevent and help with the stormwater problem.
Another problem that -- I'm going to digress for a second.
The other thing I found very disturbing is that New Tampa, some of their places in New Tampa do not pay for this.
(Bell sounds)
We are a city.
Everybody should pay for it.
And I find it ludicrous that I have kids in my neighborhood that don't eat, and there's a neighborhood that doesn't contribute to our needs.
Thanks.
I had more to say but that's about it.
Thanks.
Vote for it.
>>> Good morning.
My name is Tom Krumrich, North Mulberry Drive.
I have had a privilege to live near the Hillsborough River for the last couple of years, and as of last month I'm now what I call a river rat.
I live on the river.
One of the joys of my life in the morning is to fix breakfast and go out on the dock or out on the deck and just take in the scene of the diversity of wildlife that's there.
It's my understanding through my friend Phil Compton who has lived there for several years that because of the efforts of friend of the river and groups like that, that the diversity is beginning to increase on the river.
And I think that's extremely important.
Every opportunity I get, I try to get on the river, either kayak or canoe.
And there's all kind of trash and I pick it up and I hope everybody will do that.
So this thing with the stormwater filters is really important.
My understanding is it cannot only pick up trash but they can also skim off oil and things like that.
So along with the issue of the water flow over the dam, you know, the stormwater filtration thing is really important, we really need it to Rae store the lower Hillsborough River, to the best extent possible.
And I really want to encourage the city and the council to focus on that aspect of the stormwater problem as well.
Thank you for your time.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, sir.
>>> Good morning, council members.
I'm Dick Ecinoid, Executive Director of the East Waste Program here to speak in favor of the stormwater fee increase.
First of all I want to thank the council members and their predecessor councils for your leadership in the clean-up and restoration of Tampa Bay.
You probably heard it before but it's worth repeating that the city's initiative at considerable expense of cleaning up the wastewater treatment discharges years ago was really instrumental in turning around the quality of Tampa Bay.
And that recovery continues today.
But if it's going to continue, we are going to have to deal with the stormwater quality issue.
And I'm very pleased to see the support that council is showing to this fee increase, because it is an important -- not the final but a very important step in providing the city staff with the resources to deal with the stormwater problem.
Like 50% of the nitrogen, for example, which is one of the key pollutants which we are trying to limit into Tampa Bay come from stormwater run-off, at least 50%.
So with the additional resources your staff will have we'll be able to make a important step in reducing those nitrogen levels.
I also want to point out that the estuary program, of which the city is a part, we have a grant writer who has been extremely successful working with some of our other partners including Hillsborough County and city of St. Pete in procuring state grants for stormwater improvements.
And the last year, she's batting a thousand on these grants, and we secured a couple of million dollars, over a couple million dollar in support for our partners, and we look forward to working with the city and hoping to leverage those additional funds.
Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good morning, council members.
John Dausman, River Hills Drive, addressing item 22.
Your rules of procedure and the order of taking up business.
This morning, you, this board, have the historic opportunity.
I would ask each of you to think why you ran for public office.
What did you tell the people who elected you?
I hope almost immediately, if not first, at least second, it was to represent your constituents either in your district or city-wide.
I have the proposal, item 22 for its second reading today, one that was apparently the intent of this board to pass on consent.
I would ask you to stop.
Because next to last, the last item being adjournment, the least important thing on the agenda is item 13 in the order of procedure.
General audience comments from the floor, not to be televised or broadcast, three minutes per person.
Why did you run for office?
Democracy is messy, but it works.
If you hide from the opinions of people who want to speak to you, not just people like me, but two weeks ago the little lady from some neighborhood who had a particular issue, she sat her time, she waited in line, and she had to be told to sit down.
And there was nobody behind her.
What is one hour of your time a week, at the beginning of the agenda, three minutes apiece, have your say, sit down, move on.
This is costing you a lot of reputation to tell people like that to sit down.
You could fix that today for free, at absolutely no cost to the city or the taxpayers or your time.
It's exactly the same amount of time you spend now.
Move item 13 up to item 6.
And I'll end on the thought, we are not audience, as you heard earlier.
(Bell sounds)
We are the public.
You have an opportunity to leave a legacy today.
Please reconsider.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good morning.
I'm Gina Miller, director of the Hillsborough River Task Force.
I'm here to support the tax increase.
We represent the upper portions of the Hillsborough River.
And while I'm not aware of tremendous flooding problems up in that area, there are stormwater concerns.
And so I'd like to -- I guess since I'm last in line, I'm pretty much reiterating what everyone else has already said.
So I would like first of all that you would consider incorporating into this proposal adequate stormwater filters be considered, and put into practice, and those portions, because what comes from upextreme goes downstream.
It is a source of our drinking water.
So we really need to focus on clean stormwater up in the upper regions of the river as well as downstream.
The second thing I would like to also point out again, which has already been said, is I would like to see the county also be a partner in this, as well as other entities, whoever they may be, whether they are nonprofit, or whoever it can be, just so that we can get this job done and get it done right, in the interests of the entire public that live in the City of Tampa.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Is there anyone else in the audience than would like to speak?
>> Julie Barnes, city attorney office.
I wanted to remind council here that the stormwater fee is unique in that the parcels being assessed include those that burden the stormwater system, as well as those that benefit from the operation and maintenance that the assessments provide for.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, thank you.
I have a couple of comments.
I didn't want to interrupt Steve's final presentation.
But this is important as Bea go forward.
I think any business or government only strives to do better.
And that's what we have done in many cases of our processes here and ways to run our meeting.
I think it's very clear, at least it should be to most of our listening audience, that we do not vote in a vacuum.
From the beginning of an issue coming up for a perceived vote or coming to council, we are inundated with letters and calls and conversations when appropriate.
And that's fine.
And that also weighs in on what we want to do with a particular issue.
And now we, I think, invested in a good resource, and that's Marty Shelby.
He has gone through and tried to fine-tune and try to make things shorter when they don't need to run as long as they are, and we have seen improvements and obviously the listening audience or sitting audience are happy about that too because we get to where they want to be sooner.
Today, Ms. Saul-Sena brought up the issue of, well, we are going to vote on this but people haven't talked about it yet.
And I sometimes wonder about that, too.
If I had to come here and I had to put money in the meter, and sit there for I don't know how long, and then feel like I want to be heard for my three minutes in the limelight, and this council has already voted, it's kind of like after the fact.
Those are things that have happened in the past.
Some of the things we have corrected.
Some of the things we have overlooked.
But you know what?
All we do is say, oops, and go back and correct it.
And I think that's what Mr. Shelby has addressed today, which I think is absolutely fantastic in terms of our service to the community.
The second thing -- and Marty, I am going to let you weigh in on it afterwards.
I hope that's the way we do it from now on.
We get to listen to everybody and include that in whatever communication we already have so we have a very comprehensive input from our citizens in order to vote appropriately, and not let anybody think that their opinion has not been weighed in.
The second thing that Mr. Dausman, I don't know if he's still here -- yes, he is -- and I know many of us before we were on council, that people came in to talk about something not on the agenda.
So rather than interrupt the agenda, we asked them to speak at the end.
That doesn't discount the fact that they have a right to have an opinion on things that are on the agenda, or off the agenda.
Estimates people came here for other things.
But now, sometimes, people find a way to still be heard, because they will pick an item on the agenda and talk about it so it's appropriate, but at some point they deviate from what they are saying, so really we are back to square one.
Mr. Shelby, I would like for you to look at the possibility, just look at the possibility, and let's have this body discuss it at some point in time when you're ready to give us the details, to look at the possibility of bringing back the audience portion that is not specific to any of the agenda items.
They can come up at the end, not to disrupt the meeting, but they still will be heard, the television will still be on and if they feel there's an important issue in their neighborhood, we are going to listen to it and the audience is going to listen to it.
Can I just finish?
>>> Just seconding your motion.
>> I'm not through.
How do you know what I am going to say?
So what I am saying is, that might be a better way to listen to our constituents.
In addition to which, please make it be understood that Mr. Dausman, whether we were listening to it or not, the television on or off, I think I can speak for the rest of the colleagues, at least I hope I can, that we are still paying attention to that person.
It's just that ware not having that dialogue on TV.
But there's always ram for improvement.
We have seen 2001 things today.
The fact that listen to the audience first before we vote on something so they don't feel they have been slighted.
And the second thing is let's go back to the audience portion.
I know there were some problems in the many, many years passed.
But sometimes if we improve the process we can bring it back to where it should be.
And research what's better government.
And I think we can all answer the question you brought up about why we were elected and why we ran.
And it's obvious to serve the people that put us here.
So I don't think that those are incomprehensive requests.
And Mr. Shelby, you might want to weigh in on that.
I make it in the form of a motion.
And if Mr. Dingfelder wants to also speak -- and I apologize -- I would welcome that.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Historically, basically the comments that Mr. Dausman raised about are -- in the resolution are duplicates, or duplicate language of what was originally in the current rules of procedure.
So it was continuing council's custom.
If council wishes to change its custom, that's its purview.
I would ask that you hold your motion. The more appropriate time would be when we do the workshop on council's rules of procedure so we can talk about it more if council wishes to and talk about whatever changes council wishes to.
When I get direction in the next resolution I'll bring it back.
>>ROSE FERLITA: And I'll be happy to hold it and bring it up again.
And I know that the down side perhaps will be that more people want to come up in the general audience portion and make the meeting a little longer.
But that's why we are here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we discussing stormwater now?
>>ROSE FERLITA: No, no.
>>GWEN MILLER: No.
Mr. Daignault -- Mr. Dingfelder?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to agree with Ms. Ferlita.
I don't know why we turned off the TV at a certain part of the time.
I think it sends a bad message that one person's comments are worth airing, ours or someone else's and other people's aren't.
I don't think we need to be afraid of anything.
I think we can leave the TV on.
If people are disruptive, we have ways to deal with that, you know, and that's a different story.
So if and when we discuss any of the workshop or what have you, that would be one suggestion.
And I think Mr. Dausman makes good sense when he says if in fact we are calling it audience participation, I think we should call it public participation.
I think that's what we need to encourage, is public participation.
So it's semantics, but I think that sometimes semantics and language is very important.
So let's look at changing both of those.
Rose, I agree with you.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault, you wanted to say something?
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you.
There's really one significant item that I need to just make sure the public goes away with.
When I said up at the front that we are not talking about the environmental piece, but my point is that this presentation is geared to talk about the flooding piece.
Certainly these dollars allow us to address those environmental issues, those pollution issues, that we need to.
That is a whole -- this presentation would be totally different if we were addressing just the environmental side.
So it would be more technical.
It would be probably more complicated.
But this certainly is -- those need to be addressed.
Those are required to be addressed.
They are parts of this five-year plan provide dollars for those items.
So again, I don't want the counsel or the public to leave feeling that we are not addressing the environmental piece.
We are.
But this presentation is geared to talk about the flooding part primarily.
And that's way was trying to say up front.
Maybe I didn't do that very well.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Just reiterate what you said yesterday, just to better educate me.
You are not discounting the importance of what some of our environmental supporters are saying.
Would that come under the component of filtration processor what?
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, various of these projects that have retention would have devices in them that would be for clean-up.
But also you will see down here TMDL and grant matching.
So those are dollars for the environmental clean-up.
You are aware that we are under a consent agreement with the D.E.P. and it requires that we do certain things, and testing and sampling and those sorts of things.
Again, we have to do them.
This certainly allows us, if we go forward with this increase, allows us to enhance our cleaning of the discharges.
I don't want again the counsel or the public to think that we are not addressing those issues.
My presentation, however, was geared primarily for the flooding problems.
But we will do the environmental as well, because we are mandated to do those.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Steve, thank you for that clarification.
I think it needed to be said.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Daignault, when awe dressed the flooding problem, would you address the environmental issue at the same time?
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We want to do that.
But getting flooding waters out of an area into the bay quickly doesn't necessarily take the pollutants out of it.
So the project has to be designed to retain the water, get the pollutants out, clean the water, then discharge.
So, yes, we will try to do that.
Again, I said up front that that -- I was concerned that people had a misunderstanding that we are not addressing environmental issues.
We are.
And we are mandated to do that.
And we will do that.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: One other question.
Someone made the suggestion that maybe we ought to ask Hillsborough County for some grants or moneys to help us with this problem.
Have you done that?
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We have not asked the county directly.
We do have federal grant requests in, and we have three requests for grant money from Southwest Florida Water Management District, and again that's why you see some of the grant match funding, because we are very hopeful we are going to get more grants.
We have had some in past weeks but hope to get more.
>> do you think maybe the administration ought to ask the Hillsborough County for some grants, to help out the city?
>>> We can certainly try that.
We are willing to try anything.
>> Try that.
>>> Yes, ma'am.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, I'm really glad that you have the ability today to hear the concerns of the river residents.
And when you come back to us with holistic projects, maybe you could put an asterisk by those that specifically address as well as flooding.
And we have a department.
We have a new director.
We have a contract administration office which will hopefully allow us to move these contracts along more quickly.
And we look forward to a full press effort to begin to address these questions.
And I'm so pleased that the community came out so we could hear some of their concerns today.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault, the bottom line is, I was trying to identify this environmental issue.
The bottom line is, on most of these majors projects you can't build them without pulling typically without pulling permits from SWFWMD and/or the D.E.P., I would assume, because that's the way it is in the private sector, and don't think they treat us any better, and often worse.
So the bottom line is there will be environmental oversight.
I think they'll expect us to have current -- to meet current standards and best practices and all that type stuff, right?
>>> Absolutely.
Again, laws change all the time.
So we have to make sure that we are current, and that we are prepared to deal with whatever changes may come.
>>GWEN MILLER: Now I need a motion.
Mr. Shelby?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask before we do the motion relating to Mr. Daignault's issue, that we go back to the consent docket and clean that up.
If council's pleasure is to hold voting on item 22 to the discussion on the workshop of procedures, council can make a motion to pass the previously passed consent document.
If that's council's pleasure to pass 22 as it has already been presented, then amend it later on if it wishes.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to approve all of the consent items except for 22.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: I need a motion for Mr. Daignault's.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask for a clarification on the motion.
I believe Mr. Daignault specifically had a request at the end of the presentation as to what he was asking council for.
I just want the clarification of it so that the administration and the council are on the same page.
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: What we are asking for again is just support of the amount of the increase and the $20 million bond issue.
And as I said previously, we recognize that doesn't mean that we will go do that.
We still have to come back to the council for approval after July 15th on the increase in the stormwater, and we still have to come back to council for issuance of the bond issue.
So again, we are looking for support of those two initiatives.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I make a motion to support the $20 million bond issue increase and the fee increase.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Nay.
>>THE CLERK: Harrison, no.
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
Now we are going to go to our second reading in our public hearings.
Is there anyone in the public going to speak on either items, second reading or the public hearing?
Please stand and raise your right hand.
>>THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth?
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item number 7.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience to to speak on item number 7?
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read number 7, please.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to adopt the following ordinance upon second reading.
An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way all that portion of hook Avenue, foredrive, par two place, elbow drive and fairway drive lying south of Forest Hills drive, north of bogey drive, west of North Boulevard and east of Armenia Avenue, in map of golfland of Tampa north side country club area unit 2, a subdivision located in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being more fully described in section 2 hereof, subject to the reservation of certain permanent easements as set forth herein, subject to certain covenants, conditions and restrictions as more particularly described herein, providing an effective date.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion AP and second.
Roll call vote.
Vote and record.
>>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Ferlita being absent.
>>GWEN MILLER: Need to open number 8.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience to speak on number 8?
>> Move to close.
>> second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Alvarez, would you read number 8, please.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to adopt the following ordinance upon second reading: Move an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 approving an expansion of an existing church in an RS-50 zoning district in the general vicinity of 2600-2606 west grace street in the city of Tampa, Florida, and as more particularly described in section 1 hereof, reducing the required parking spaces from 121 spaces to 81 spaces, reducing the yards required for churches from 40 feet to what is shown on-site plan attached hereto, for existing and new buildings, waiving the requirements in section 27-272 for church signage to approve the existing sign, waiving the required access to an arterial or collector street allowing access to local streets, reducing the required setback on the west and north boundaries of off-street parking areas, located west of the main church building bordered by Tampania Avenue on the east and Cypress Street on the south, providing an effective date.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
Roll call vote.
Vote and record.
>>THE CLERK: I'm showing Linda Saul-Sena absent and Kevin White voting for, but he's not present.
>>GWEN MILLER: Linda was out.
Kevin White?
He voted before he left.
>>KEVIN WHITE: I did vote before I left.
>>GWEN MILLER: I noticed we had some people come in.
If you are going to speak on these public hearings you need to stand and raids your right hand.
Sandy, would you swear them in?
These are for persons who are going to speak on items 9 through 18.
Anyone in the audience that's going to speak on items 9 through 18, please raise your right hand.
>>THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, I put my little sign up on the lectern to remind you that if you have been sworn, when you give your name, to please reaffirm on the record that you have been sworn.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Item number 9 is a continued public hearing.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
I have been sworn.
This is the continued public hearing in the K-Bar Ranch rezoning, lies just south of Pasco County.
I am not going to re-read the entire summary.
It is before you.
The request is 1058 acres, the original request was for 1099 units.
It has been reduced to 699 units which is called for in the annexation agreement.
And there is a specific note on there that refers to 299 units being permitted initially, the additional 400, once they confirm they can connect to Pasco County via Mansfield Road or Meadow Creek -- Meadow Point Boulevard.
It shows different styles of housing in the summary as well.
Single-family detached, single-family traditional, villas, townhomes with garages.
There is a 17.81 acre park site shown on the plan that was approved by the Parks Department.
The population decreased because the units decreased.
Therefore, the acreage got smaller on the park site.
There are representatives from the Parks Department, also, if you have any additional questions.
There has been substantial work on the part of the petitioner working with staff.
We have had between eight and ten meetings over the last two months to hash out all of the issues that we had.
Very lengthy meetings.
The majority of the notes on the site plan refer back to the annexation agreement.
We took language directly from the agreement and placed it on the plan.
They are adhering to all of those requirements.
There is a range set on the site plan for commercial between 50,000 and 200,000 as a trade-off of square feet for units up to CG uses.
And I did note several reasons for recommendation and compliance with the annexation agreement.
And on page 3 there are findings of fact, the purpose of a site plan, control zoning.
We have no objections.
We actually worked all of the issues out.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was curious, on the notes, there seemed to be extensive notes about environmental issues.
Is there someone here from parks?
>>> Yes.
>>> Greg Howell, Upland Habitat Coordinator, Parks and Recreation Department, I have been sworn.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you just give us the highlight of the negotiations in regard to the upland habitat and management plans, and how are we going to perhaps do a good or better job of enforcing and making sure that as these developments come in to play that there's adequate enforcement and compliance?
>>> Well, the negotiations have taken place both with the -- both side of this corridor that make up the most part of the wildlife habitat area that's on this site.
And part of that has been with M.I. Homes in the park subdivision, and the other part is now with this rezoning that we are going through now, which is with Mobley Homes, and these negotiations have taken place, in trying to move the corridor around on the property to where we have uplands in this corridor, to provide habitat for wildlife and also to have a corridor for wildlife to be able to transverse the Pasco County line down to the Heritage Isles area that is to the south of this development.
And there's been four or five meetings over the last few months to work out different contingencies, situations on these corridors, as to how much is going to be in floodplain mitigation, how much is going to be in stormwater ponds, and how much is going to be in uplands.
And through the course of these negotiations we have been able to work with the developers on both sides of the M.I. Homes and Mobley Homes to move this corridor around and getting into a situation where at this point meets the needs and requirements that we have within the code.
And the annexation agreement as was written.
>> will it be your responsibility to continue to supervise?
>>> Yes, it will.
>> and observe during construction to make sure that it stays on target before we have in the plan?
>>> That's correct.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, sir.
I don't see anywhere on the -- well, it says new river wildlife corridor.
But it's not --
>>> The new river wildlife corridor is not part of this rezoning.
>> Is is there a place on the map where there is one that we can see?
Is it this corridor?
>> No, that is the one we are talking about now with the rezoning in Bassett Creeks.
>> Is there a map that shows this?
Because I am looking at the map and it's not clear.
You're talking about a corridor.
I just want to see it on the map.
Do we have the copy that I'm just not looking at?
>>> I don't think it's attached to this rezoning.
We do have it on here.
It says Bassett branch wildlife corridor.
It's not fully decliniated within this rezoning.
It will be on a preliminary plat.
And they are also up in the northeast corner, there is the new river wildlife corridor, which is specified on it.
But they are not actually delineated on here.
There will be a preliminary plat.
>> But plats don't come back to City Council.
This is our chance to -- this is the public's opportunity to look at this.
Plats are approved and negotiated with staff.
So if we are representing the public, and the public is here in the future, if you could like take a highlighter or something like that and show us on the map where these corridors are that you are talking about, it would be helpful for members.
>>> Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Planning Commission staff.
>>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
I have been sworn in.
I have an amended report to provide council to receive and file.
I'll go ahead and provide an aerial on the Elmo so you can actually see where the corridors are in question that we have talked about.
The new corridor is up here.
>> We are not seeing it.
>> Right here.
And this is the Bassett Ranch -- New River, right here.
>> Move it down.
The whole page.
>>> Okay.
I'm sorry.
This is the Bassett branch creek.
This is the new river corridor right here.
And I'll show you a future land use map now.
To give you some history, let me back up very quickly.
As most of you were on council when we did the plan amendment for this, this was annexed and subsequently given a land use designation, the land use designation was suburban mixed use 3, in an environmentally sensitive area.
To look at the report, we initially had some concerns and did not have adequate information with this -- when this hearing initially came to you several months ago. The site plan a lot of conditions that were devoid of -- with respect to the protection of the corridors, which were some of the main concerns that we had.
The Planning Commission initially had really the two major concerns, the establishment of a significant wildlife corridor with, and the potential fragmentation of the wildlife corridors.
Since that time, I would like to at this point in time commend Mr. Howell on being very vigilant in his perseverance in establishing significant improvements in what the city would like to see accomplished in ways of preservation on this site.
During the City of Tampa public hearing when did you the land use amendment, Planning Commission staff did recommend a corridor of 600 feet based on recommendations made by the Florida fish and wildlife conservation commission.
That was subsequently adopted by Tampa City Council.
While the 600 foot corridor would be preferred, the applicant has been very good in meeting with the city, and I believe the city has made significant grounds since the October meeting in that the applicant now agrees or recognizes at least a 400 foot wildlife corridor for the two corridors, in addition to agreeing on a variety of conditions, and preservation measures, to assure that there is no fragmentation of the corridors, which were the two major things that we were concerned about.
So that being said, we feel that that is significant enough, that we find this consistent with the comprehensive plan.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Petitioner.
>>> Vin Malquetti, representing Mobley Homes as well as Douglas Partnership.
Cathy went through the rezoning request, 1058 acres for a total of 699 residential units.
We understand the restraint on those units relative to the connection of Pasco County.
And we agree.
It's obviously part of the 2002 annexation agreement.
So we can currently build 2999 units, would take place only when there is a connection with Pasco County.
We understand that caveat.
Very quickly, the 400 foot corridor that -- well, the 600 foot just described and then the 400 foot described as well, council needs to understand the 400 foot corridor width was actually set aside and determined in the first rezoning for K-Bar Ranch which was two rezonings against ago along Morris Bridge Road, and in that particular petition you will note number 31, I believe, on your plan, those conditions are identically transposed from the conditions that took place from a year and a half ago, on the M.I. rezoning.
The corridor width was established at that point in time in that original reas well as other conditions relative to how the corridor would be established and preserved.
The discussions that would take place with city staff in the last three or four months have really been around how do we implement the conditions from the original rezoning request?
And that's taken us many months to resolve.
The notes, I think 32 on your revised plan, all of those notes deal with how to implement those original conditions.
I mentioned my client has agreed to many, many concession was the city, even though the original notes on the plan, in our opinion, would have sufficed.
But we knew the city had concerns about it.
We said, okay, let's sit down, let's work through it, let's spend more time, let's delay our project further to resolve these issues, and that's how we came about today, with staff support and Planning Commission support as well, because we worked with the staffs and came up with the conditions which everyone agreed to.
We mentioned that the annexation agreement, we tried to implement the provisions of the annexation agreement in the rezoning context for you today.
But also my client has agreed to further restrictions, not specifically required by annexation agreement.
For example, the annexation agreement provided for two significant wildlife habitat areas as shown on the original exhibit to the agreement, which were identified in the agreement but did not discuss any inability to mitigate off-site.
We could have potentially impacted those areas.
We have agreed, however, in this rezoning not to impact the areas who had to preserve those two areas.
Secondly, also, for the protection of the wildlife corridor, and two wildlife corridors, the new river and Bassett ranch creek, we did fully address those issues in this rezoning petition, as you know in the stats referred to in 32.
We also agreed to commit neighborhood scale commercial uses with a trade-off mechanism being utilized, meaning to say if we construct commercial we have to take away our vested trips from the residential that's provided for in the annexation agreement.
We have agreed to do than so that we can have internal count of vehicle trips on our property and not further burden cross creek and Bruce B. Downs.
We have also agreed to greater flexibility relative to the location and size.
There are notes on the plans that indicate the park size is conceptual at this point.
We are working with staff both from the city and county to hopefully come up with a greater park site for the area, in K-Bar Ranch and hope to come back to the council sometime in the future to discuss that further.
We have also agreed to convey the right-of-way for the east-west road.
The proposed zoning condition requires we convey the right-of-way, to mitigation areas, and our retention areas for that roadway, within two years of the effective date of this rezoning.
Let me have Tanya Stewart from Mobley Homes to describe Mobley Homes to you.
And then I'll wrap it up.
>> Tanya Stewart, Mobley Homes, 4410 Gunn highway, Tampa 33618.
We are the applicant for this K-Bar rezoning.
I wanted to take a couple of minutes and just talk to you about Mobley Homes.
We have taken quite a bit of time over the past few months to try to develop some kind of a concept plan so we could do several things.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I just wanted you to be able to reaffirm you have in fact been sworn.
>>> Yes, I have.
Yes.
We wanted to make sure that we were able to identify wetland areas, wildlife corridors, significant wildlife habitat, roadways, infrastructures, that we determine exactly how many units we can fit on the site.
That is one of the most important things to determine.
We met with the water department, department of sanitary sewer, the school board, so that we could determine what our projections are, what their needs were, so that we could put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.
The bottom line is we have developed a plan that protects wetland, protects the environment, we have even managed to stay out of most of the floodplain.
So we have achieved something that's a mixed use single family attached, single family detached, townhomes, and parks, and schools, and roadways.
The water department, department of sanitary sewers, all have master plans they are trying to work with us on because there are other things going on outside our boundaries that we are trying to pull together.
We wanted to make sure that you realized we had other projects in the areas, reserve, west town palm homes which is in the city, that all reflect our intent to, number one, protect the environment and try to fit into communities that already exist.
So we are doing the whole thing.
So we look forward to another very good project.
And if you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer them.
>> In conclusion, the Planning Commission of course reversed their objection because we are working with the city staff on corridors primarily, and we appreciate your support.
We'll reserve time for rebuttal.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: The only issue that I can see at this point is the park.
And what I wanted to have before us today was the site plan that showed a park at the maximum possible it could be with the city's purchase under the development agreement of whatever the additional acreage is that we are allowed to purchase.
It's either 15 or 20 acres under the development agreement that we can purchase, in addition to what your obligations are for dedication.
And my fear, and my concern, is that because we don't have that maximum area set forth on the site plan, that that can cause some confusion and some issue in the future.
Even thousand reference the fact that you have to comply with the development agreement.
I would prefer to see a site plan that shows that maximum park site.
And if it's 20 acres or 15, it's got to be continuous according to the development.
So I would like to see that maximum park site set forth on the site plan.
Now, if that throws you back, if that causes a week delay, so that you can -- I don't want to cause you the week delay.
But fountain does, that's the only concern that I have.
I don't know what my colleagues will have to say about it.
But this is our last shot for parkland in New Tampa.
And I want to make sure when we wrap it up it's signed, sealed, delivered, with a bow right here on the site plan.
>>> Do you want me to address that question first or other questions?
>>GWEN MILLER: Answer his question first.
>>> I believe there's also a zoning note.
I think it's 33, as Tanya mentioned, that deals with the parkland.
That's taken directly from the annex agreement we recited.
It's an additional 15 acres the city could purchase.
We of course would not object to providing that additional acreage and showing it on the site plan.
In discussions with the Parks Department staff, it appears as though that location of that park on the site plan may be moved as well.
So we wouldn't object to putting it on the site plan.
Can we do it and still make the next City Council date two weeks?
I think it's two weeks?
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Can we just do that for second reading or is this a major revision?
>>> It is consistent with the annexation agreement.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm not exactly sure what kind of change you're looking for. The picture on the plan itself on the first page, the 17.81, plus or minus, and then it says it's subject to relocation depending on negotiations.
Note 33 on the plan we took directly from the agreement and it specifically says that if the city desires additional land to construct an additional park required by the City of Tampa comprehensive plan, then the developer shall convey such lands to the city, now not to exceed an additional 15 acres for such major park, provided the location of and price per acre for such additional park lands shall be mutually agreed to by the developer and the city.
Additionally all major park lands within K-Bar Ranch be shall contiguous unless otherwise agreed and shall be open to all residents of Hillsborough County.
It's referenced on the plan because we pulled from the the agreement.
I don't know if changing the picture itself is really going to matter since the location may be changed.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
I'm not sure what kind of change you're looking for since it's referenced on the plan.
>> Is there enough room where that current park site is to add an additional 15 acres? Yes.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: They ever only at .91 density.
They have over a thousand acres and are only proposing 600 units.
There's actually a lot of land in this development.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I understand that.
I don't want us to miss something in the future.
And I just want to make sure that we are fully secured, that we can't make it any stronger if we were to put the picture on here now.
If you're telling me it won't help us to put the picture on here now, then that's fine.
And I accept --.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: The only way to truly secure, for us to ensure you in front of you, is for them to give us what they are going to submit for preliminary plat to show actual layout of lots.
But then they are locked in at that point.
And in order to change that they are going to have to come back before you.
To do another rezoning if they change it sig significantly.
And that the whole purpose of the PDA is essentially to have the blank plan that has all of these entitlements and notes laid out as far as what we can do later on.
>> The problem we ran into on the 40 acre park in New Tampa is we sort of left it nebulous.
You are going to give us 40 acres.
It turns out that 40 acres required $5 million of fill.
It was all wetland.
You know, what we otherwise could have built with 40 acres, and $5 million, we couldn't even get close to.
So I don't want to just leave it sort of up in the air that we are all going to agree to where that location is going to be.
If you have got it here on the site plan -- oh high and dry, it's okay.
>>> I did not redo --
>> Add 15 acres to that there and everyone says we can do that, and it's secure on the site plan as is, I'm okay with it.
>>CATHY COYLE: I didn't read you the entire note. The statement right before the part that I read to you says the park land provided shall be developable, accessible, and usable by residents of K-Bar Ranch and for the public at large, and the location configuration, construction of all parks and park improvement shall be consistent with the comprehensive plan.
So they develop it -- define it as developable and usable land and accessible.
>>> Can we modify the plan within the next couple days and then keep the hearing date scheduled?
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Not for the second reading.
I would have to make whatever change now before them.
Otherwise, you push the first reading off until whatever change came about, a week or two.
>>> Can I simply write in the change?
We'll be happy to do it.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: What change would you like?
>>SHAWN HARRISON: The extra 15 acres to shot on the site plan plan itself when it comes up for second reading.
>>> Let me have Tanya do that.
And I think we'll satisfy you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Marquetti, when this came before us before wasn't --
>>> The annexation?
>> No.
>>> The first would have been Scott steady and M.I. Homes.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My concern here is this.
We are talking about, I believe I understand, a thousand acres in toto.
And some 600 units.
I don't understand why the best way to protect these wildlife corridors is to set aside 600 feet, why we are compromising on 400 feet.
>>> Well, part of the issue is wetland on the site.
We are not disturbing any wetlands on-site.
The 600 feet, let me go back.
The annexation agreement -- and I wasn't involved in the initial process -- but Steve is here as well.
Specifically provides that in fact we didn't acknowledge that the two corridors existed.
There is a dispute apparently between the city and the developer at that point in time.
>>> I was on council at that time and I remember.
It was a very big discussion.
>> And I didn't have the benefit of that.
But the bottom line here is that we believe 400 feet is more than adequate to --
>> The city thinks 600 feet is.
>>> That's incorrect.
No. The Planning Commission had said in the report a recommendation by an outside entity saying they recommend 600 feet.
The parks staff has agreed to 400 feet is sufficient, particularly in light of our set-asides for areas that can do nothing.
>> I would like to hear from our staff.
>> Craig Howell again.
In the recommendation from the Florida fish and wildlife, we did receive a recommendation for 600 feet corridor.
We also have in the code in our upland habitat protection code, we have an appendix that goes to that.
In appendix A, it does reference a minimum 600 foot wildlife corridor.
However, in this particular situation we were dealing with pasture land that was adjacent to the creek.
And this pasture land did not have a lot of habitat to it because it was mostly bahia grass.
In order to work with the developers of this site and to get to a point where we could make this a viable wildlife corridor, we exchanged the 600 feet to 400 feet for enhancement in the corridor.
They are going to come in and they are going to put in more plant material where the bahia grass is now and to make it a more dense planting and an area for cover, to provide that cover for wildlife.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And my big concern is that the lawns from the homes don't dump pesticides into the creek.
And are you reassuring me that there's going to be enough protection for the creek from the first lieser?
>>> That's really an engineering question, something I'm not technically able to answer.
But I can tell you that between the creek, there's a 25-foot upland buffer.
And then depending on where you are in looking at the corridor, the corridor may be another 100 feet wide at that point or 150 feet wide.
And then the homes will have to be outside that range.
So I don't know if we have a minimum time.
Can you speak to that question?
>> Tanya Stewart, Mobley Homes again.
I am a licensed professional engineer, too.
I just went to the building side.
So I was just going back and looking at our development plan.
And a lot of the corridor have stormwater ponds along them for treatment of all the run-off from development.
And as we move towards the corridor, the development, because of the value of the corridor, the development is less dense.
So we have the larger lots.
But we have stormwater management facilities on both sides of the corridor to handle treatment.
>> So you will do filtration between the back yards and the creek?
>>> Correct.
>> And the setbacks from the creek will be about 200 feet?
>>> Actually, I have gone and laid everything out in pretty good detail.
We are more than 200 feet.
We have a lot of stuff still left to be done but the 200 foot was the minimum requirement and right now based on some of the permits that I've seen from SWFWMD, we are like 300 feet away.
>> Perfect.
>>> So in reality, by the time you see the final construction plans, you're probably going to find that we provided much more than 200 feet in some areas.
There are some areas where we are right at 200 feet.
But we still have the stormwater treatment facilities there to treat it before discharging into the corridor.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you so much.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Harrison, in regard to your concerns, and I'm glad you raise them, as I heard somebody read paragraph 33 to us, a price mutually agreed upon by developer and the city.
That concerns me a little bit.
Because it doesn't create any standard in terms of them walking away from any terms we offer.
So I would like to suggest reasonable price or fair market value.
And Mr. Marquettie, if we are in position to buy it it would be a fair market value.
If would you include that as a note.
Mr. Harrison, would you agree with that?
>>> He's here as well on the wildlife corridor issues.
Would be happy to any questions you have.
>>GWEN MILLER: We will go to the audience.
Subpoena there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item number 9?
If you are going to speak, please come up if you are going to speak.
Anyone that's going to speak, please come up.
>> Miller, green ways, task force, I have been sworn.
Some of this information is just getting to me and I apologize.
I haven't done a lot of my homework lately.
But my concerns, the task force's concerns, for this development, we are very encouraged by Mobley Homes.
I think they have done a really great job of working with the city, and ensuring environmental concerns, addressing those issues, recognize them, and now trying -- not trying to turn away and sweep it under the rug as we have seen in some other areas of the New Tampa area.
Right now, the way I'm standing right at this moment, my concerns are still about those stormwater ponds along the creek.
We keep talking about the wildlife corridor, which is a wonderful thing.
I'm happy to see that it is in an upland area because that will make it more viable for animals to move about.
But Ms. Saul-Sena, I'm so glad you brought up about Bassett branch creek.
It is a tributary of the Hillsborough River.
We do derive some of our drinking water.
I'm concerned about run-off into the creek, concerned about the stormwater retention ponds.
Last I heard, those ponds were reduced, I guess, in number.
But from what I understand, it's still a little bit more than we were expecting, you know.
Because those are supposed to be buffer areas.
And instead of them being used as buffer areas, they are being used as stormwater ponds, for whatever reason.
I won't speculate.
Now again, this is several months ago.
And I'm sure some changes have occurred since the city has been meeting privately with the developer so I am not privy to all those since they were private discussions.
I'm just encouraged.
I feel good about this.
I think things are okay.
But I trust the Parks Department.
I trust Greg Howell very much.
But I still have my concerns about protection for the creek.
Bassett branch as well as the river and ensuring the necessary buffers and setbacks are enforced as they were originally agreed to, whether that was -- I'd like to see 600 feet.
400, I guess, will have to do.
But whatever we can do to maximize protection of our creeks and our wildlife on this property.
I would hope that the City Council will address that.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Marquetti, do you want rebuttal?
>>> Good morning.
Steve Gottly, Research Associates.
I have been sworn. The stormwater management system is going to be proposed along the creek is going to protect the integrity of the creek.
Of course, you have to understand the creek is there because at this time low spot.
And your ponds have to be in the low spot as well.
All the ponds that will be constructed are either M.I.'s homes or the Mobley piece will be in accordance with the SWFWMD regulations.
One of the ironies, if you ask the City of Tampa water department what they will tell you is is the water quality now in the Hillsborough River, in the drinking water, is better than it was a decade ago.
With all the development in the New Tampa area.
And the irony is, it is better because we don't have the cattle that we did have doing what cows doing in rivers and streams and wetlands that discharge directly into the river.
So they are having to spend less money to treat the stormwater, of the drinking water, as a result of the stormwater ponds that are now constructed and the improvement its in water quality.
And the same is going to apply here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask one quick little question?
I guess what I heard -- and I'm sure you can clarify this -- is when I think of the stormwater pond, I think as kind of a swale when it rains and fills up.
And I wonder if that's compatible with this being a wildlife corridor.
>>> They both are very compatible and it's a lot more complex than just a swale, ma'am.
In the case of the stormwater ponds here, the stormwater systems that's adjacent to the creek is going to have 35% of the total surface area to be in wetland vegetation, to do the final -- the filtering of the stormwater.
That provides habitat, for one.
Secondly, the ponds will have a $14 day residence time in them.
So the stormwater has to be there, or will be there for 14 days before final cleansing and purification. The stormwater pond will provide habitat for wading birds, otters, for fish as well.
And they will be an integral component of the creek system.
We have heard a lot of discussion about the 600 feet, now it's only 400 feet.
I want to point out two things.
One, it's a minimum of 400 feet at all points.
In a lot of cases, it's much, much larger than the 400 feet.
Secondly, the game commission recommendation was written -- and it's a long time ago, almost three years -- it was written before there was any studies of wildlife actually done in the Bassett ranch corridor.
We went in with motion detection cameras and looked at what was actually there in the creek, and the amount of wildlife in the creek at the time is actually very, very low.
Mostly because the uplands are bahia grass pasture, as was mentioned.
At the end of the project, despite the fact we will have houses adjacent to the creek instead of cattle in the creek, all of the uplands surrounding the creek, as Greg mentioned, are going to be planted in native vegetation.
So we are going to improve the wildlife benefits over what is there currently.
And I'm confident of that.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Are you finished, Mr. Marquette?
>>> That's it.
>> We need a motion to close the public hearing.
(Motion carried)
>>CATHERINE COYLE: I added in the 15 acres up to 32.81 acres plus or minus as provided for on the annexation agreement.
And then I added -- I spoke with Cathy Beck and -- says the parkland provided shall be upland, developable, accessible and usable by residents.
And per Mr. Dingfelder's note shall be mutually agreed to and a fair market value and know more by the developer and the city.
These changes have been made.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Move an ordinance in the general vicinity of K-Bar Ranch northeast of Kinnan Street in the city of Tampa, Florida more described fully described to PDA residential commercial uses with trade-off mechanism providing an effective date.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>KEVIN WHITE: In observation of the hour, I see we have nine additional petitions left.
And still some unfinished business.
It's been clearly publicized over the last four or five meetings that council will be breaking for lunch.
And I would like to make a motion that we do that at this time, reconvene by 1:00.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a request an attorney has a meeting at 1:00 and he wanted to present his before.
So if you don't mind, could we --.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: If I may, number 10 was quick.
It was just a site plan change that you requested.
>>GWEN MILLER: Can we do two more and then break for lunch?
We'll do 10 and 11 and then break for lunch.
>>ROSE FERLITA: If we break for lunch, will we be back by one?
>>GWEN MILLER: No.
It will have to be 1:30.
>>ROSE FERLITA: First of all, I don't know that it's pen publicized.
It wasn't explained this morning.
And taking some of my side and the neighbors' side, I have a pharmacy.
There are many things I want to weigh in on.
I'm afraid if we come back at 1:30 I'm not going to be able to do that.
Just a matter of who wants to stay, and who wants to go.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't support a lunch break.
I think everybody has been very patient for us and I think we ought to just go through it and be done when we are done.
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
We'll do 10 and 11, then we'll decide.
>>ROSE FERLITA: One final comment.
When we do that, I think we should discuss that at the beginning so people know we are going to do that and they can find of figure out where they are in the process of scheme of things.
>>KEVIN WHITE: That's a wonderful idea, but sometimes the agenda moves rather rapidly, and we don't ever know where we are going to be at the lunch hour.
>>GWEN MILLER: Let's see how quickly these two know so we know what time we are going to come back so we can make our decision.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't know if we are going to break or not.
>> Move to open 10.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: It's continued.
This is the case on MacDill and Granada.
Council had directed -- I have been sworn.
Council had directed the buildings to shift back.
Now there is a 14-foot front setback that you can see on the site plan.
It was originally 7 feet.
And it is in line with the house next door.
The front porch.
This is 14.
Alex Awad had an additional concern and the developer did put a note on the site plan because there are existing ponds and did not want any future encroachment into those with decking and picnic.
There was a specific construction added to the plan that says no future encouragements or construction of any physical structures or obstructions shall be permitted within the existing stormwater ponds.
They are what they are and they are -- they will not be encroached upon.
There will always be drainage on-site.
So we have no objections.
>> Petitioner.
>> Since this was a request of council, I'll just respond to any questions or provide any rebuttal that may be required.
But we have provided the setback as requested.
It is in line principally with the adjacent structure.
And it's also -- they have a front porch.
We have about a 5-foot front porch.
So they are roughly 19 to 20 feet before you get to the principal structure that goes out taller than ten feet.
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item 10?
Come up.
>>> My name is Robert Frost.
I have been sworn in.
I live at 3117 West Granada Street, on the block on the opposite side of the street from the project.
I'm an architect.
And I attempt to understand the intent of the city's zoning ordinances.
I don't understand how this project is submitted with only minor waivers.
This allows something to occur that LandCraft, the developer, could never do these two parts independent of each other, and meet any of the requirements for C-1 or RS-16.
As it's currently zoned.
To meet RS-16 you need a 50-foot minimum lot.
I think there's 48 foot on these townhouses.
A minimum lot area of 5,446 square feet.
And you take away the retainage and the parking, I think there's about 2700 square feet dedicated to these townhouses.
These townhouse owners will have a small front yard, because they have increased the setback.
But there is no side yard, no rear yard.
That's their problem, I guess.
And I just don't understand how that works.
With no waivers for PD.
The second point.
You have agreed to a 14-foot setback, as Mr. Harrison and Mr. Dingfelder have noted, sometimes semantics are important.
And I would like to add to the site plan that the main line of the house does hold back.
I think they are saying 19 feet. The existing house is probably 22 feet.
So I'd like to add at least that we keep a porch in here. The site plan does not show a porch as a setback.
It just shows the building line.
Yes, sir, I understand.
And I would like that to be part of the site plan as a site plan restricted zoning, or site plan restricted.
The driveway, the existing driveway is a right turn only that was put in when it was the restaurant.
It had a lot of traffic issues.
I see the new site plan has a dual turn driveway.
And I would like to ask that you keep the right turn only driveway in there, so that the traffic does not go into my neighborhood.
This medical office, high volume turnover every 15 minutes, we don't want that.
(Bell sounds)
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When you look at the site plan, you disagree with the residential proposal.
You support the commercial proposal on MacDill, correct?
>>> I don't understand into how it's got then far.
They are only asking for waivers on the compact parking, which I have as another issue.
But I don't understand how that occurs when if you were doing it as RS-60 -- we are not giving minor waivers.
We are giving major waivers here.
>> to clarify, the proposal that they have on the commercial portion, you would support, but you disagree completely with the residential portion?
>>> I'd love to see a single family home there instead two of townhouses.
>> Where the residential is proposed?
>>> Yes.
>> Thank you.
>>> My name is Don Skouf, 3910 West Grenada.
I have been sworn.
I live next door to the property.
Two things I wanted to bring up that were in last week's meeting.
It was mentioned by one of the participants but not addressed by the council, was the way that they approached the property once they got it.
I'm sure they had to get some kind of permits or zoning or something to do the reconstruction on the existing building, so that had to have been given.
They had an opportunity at that time to make the best use of their property.
They could have enlarged that building, made it twice or larger than that underground parking like we have seen going on in the City of Tampa with high-rise above that and going up much higher.
In other words, they could have made more money than what they are going to make but instead chose to go ahead and start construction on this building, and then come back and say, well, we want townhomes here.
As we know they have cut it back to two.
Even to look at where it is, to put a single family home there you would have to move the retention ponds over.
And the other part of it is, what about their parking?
Well, I don't feel that the neighborhood has to give in just because someone else has created their own hardship on themselves because of the parking situation.
As far as where the house is, I would like for the front of the house to be even with the front of my house, not saying it's even with the front of my porch.
Approximate they are going to put a porch on it and it's going to stick out another five or six feet.
The other thing in last week's meeting, Linda, you said you supported the neighborhood in trying to prevent these condominiums from coming in.
In is your opportunity. This is your chance to stand up and say, fine, if you want to do that, you build it within code.
But you set it back, you make it match the rest of the neighborhood.
And then you determine how you are going to make the parking fit in.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>> Kimberly Clemmet, 1337 Grenada Street.
I have been sworn in.
To continue his issues, if the RM-16 zoning, which I know in our neighborhood we already have RM-16 issues that we are dealing with.
These basically have no backyard.
The backyard of these RM-16s become parking for the office building.
I'm in favor of the office building.
I think that's actually a benefit and protective of our neighborhood.
But then to further increase the density, we have had stormwater discussions all morning here.
As a homeowner if I go up through the variance review board and say my hardship is I have to let commercial building in my backyard, I think that would be a hard sell.
We are sort of held to different standards I think as homeowners, than to come in commercially PD and just push this T limits.
I think it's increasing the density. The traffic is already overburdened as thought intersections, and just waiving the ruled so much going from RM-16 and even taking those and cutting them in half, all compact cars.
I think it's too much for the site and is pushing it.
As a neighborhood, I would like us to hold the line and try to at least enforce the rules that we are already having trouble with in our neighborhood.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Gloria Roulette, 3120 Barcelona Street.
One block north of Grenada.
And the traffic is terrible in the area.
We have a right turn only on Barcelona. All the traffic cuts through there to get to Grenada.
And it just makes the traffic 15 times worse than what it's going to be.
If it's allowed to be put in there.
I just think the traffic is terrible.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good morning.
BARRIS.
I live in palm a see.
I have been sworn in.
My address 3405 west Barcelona street, Tampa, Florida.
You have heard the complaints.
You have seen the pictures of flooding in the paper.
I met with many of you personally.
Palma Ceia Neighborhood Association has presented materials telling you of our issues.
Quality of life in our neighborhood is deteriorating.
Back in the '80s land use designation was changed to R-20 which allowed a zoning designation of RM-16.
This allows setbacks, building heights, units per acre, far in excess in the standard of the current residences in our area.
LandCraft now wants to circumvent the standards that we have with RM-16.
And, okay, do a PD, wipe it clean, impose new standards for this development.
This is at the detriment of our neighborhood.
PD is zoning for large projects.
It's inappropriate to have a PD for a small residential use like this.
By allowing PDs throughout our area, you are allowing nonconforming pockets to exist.
Enough nonconforming pocket, nonconformity will become the standard of our neighborhood.
We ask that you don't allow nonconformity to become the standard of our area.
We ask you to deny this request and help us save our neighborhood.
Should you be so inclined to ask this request, we ask that you help lessen the burden that this project is going to impose upon our area.
The residential parking that is behind this project, and it is shared with commercial parking, we ask for you to designate certain amount of residential areas in there.
The proposed medical offices in there.
And that can cause some problems with parking in the development and on this street, which brings up the next point.
No parking on Grenada in front of this project.
This is right off of MacDill.
If we have parking on Grenada that's going to basically force the cars coming off of MacDill at a high rate of speed onto our residential streets into the middle of the street where the car is going to be.
Bee ask for no parking, at least halfway down the block to the east of this project.
(Bell sounds)
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>>> David Smith, 401 East Jackson Street, 33062.
I have been sworn.
In response to the comments.
One, what we are proposing here in the PD is to take a CI use which could have a full range of restaurant and other intense commercial uses and down plan to the office use which is what's under way with the permits now to do that to the office building.
In the PD we are proposing to forever make that an office building, and propose these two townhouses and incorporate a mixed use project.
The combination of the oh two results in less traffic than would be generated from restaurant uses or the other intense CI uses.
Also we have use that is operate basically at different times of the day.
We have office uses that are principally nine to five type operations, where the residences go to work, and their guests are going to be in they're in the evenings.
When they have available parking in the office parking spaces.
Also, relative to the setbacks, I showed to you some photographs last time that basically show that the basic line of development off of the right-of-way line is about 15 feet to the front construction.
We have met that to 14 feet, which is our front porch.
We have a 5-foot front porch, which gets us back to 19 feet, in line with the adjacent structure.
That is not dissimilar to the other structures in the block.
Now, across the street I think we need characterization of what's across the street, what's behind us, and just around us.
That picture shows directly behind us, the Salvation Army.
So the back wall of the parking lot, the entire area is the Salvation Army lot.
And this goes a little further to the west.
The tops of which over here are the townhouses that I showed you last time that were developed with meeting the front setback but have nothing but garage doors and paving in the front yard.
Directly across the street is what's zoned a residential RM-16, but is actually classified by property appraisers at some type of service business, and it's basically all pavement and two walls on two sides.
At the corner, we are looking at the commercial.
That's where the commercial district starts, with an alley coming in the back side, which basically is going to line up principally with our driveway.
Diagonally across the street from us, this gives a representation of once the sidewalk goes in, the way the front line is, of the structures, and some of these are porches, as they go down the street.
But basically about 15 feet from the right-of-way line to the start of the structures.
We are going to be consistent with that in this proposal.
Also, by coming in with this townhouse development at this setback, we are not intruding into the neighborhood.
We are not altering that setback requirement.
And the idea of a PD is you look at the entire site plan, you try to see if this provides for better scenario than a free standing development of the commercial structures, the stormwater situation is such that we are not going to cause flooding issues, in this community.
We are lessening the transportation impacts.
And bewe -- when we look at this photograph, if we might, you can see the front edge of the adjacent structure.
That is within 12 inches of the front edge, leading edge of our structure.
So we are going to be directly in line with that property.
When we look at the current renovation, yeah, we are currently taking this building as it was and renovating it.
One suggestion had been that we tear down the entire thing, put parking underneath, and then put townhouses above.
Well, I would suggest if we did that, we would probably come up with a much more intense development to try to put more than four units, and commercial entities, special retail that requires very little parking, and probably have seven, eight, nine, ten units of development in here, on a small site.
And that is what we propose.
We want to use existing building.
And we wanted to put in the back a transition use, which is the townhouses, which we think is totally consistent.
I understand the concerns of the community trying to protect their neighborhood.
But I do not think this intrudes into the neighborhood.
It's basically in line with the commercial developed area.
A rear yard is commercial zoning.
Our next door neighbor, which we are over 25 feet from, if we built this under the RM-16 standards we would be within seven feet of the side yard.
We are over three times the side yard setback that would be if we developed this under the current zoning standards.
We believe this development provides less impact than the current zoning, takes into consideration the neighborhood setback lines that were voiced to us.
And the elevations are part of the zoning plan which do show a front porch on the property.
The waivers that have been requested are in fact the only waivers required for this development.
I'll be glad to answer any questions.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't have any questions.
I was going to move to close.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Coyle, if in fact this was a stand-alone project that just proposed two townhomes, on approximately in that same site, in the RM-16, what would be the difference what would be the difference?
Somebody mentioned 50 foot of difference?
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
5,000 square feet in area.
But per unit they need 2,723 square feet of land area.
So by my calculations they would need approximately 55 feet of width of that property.
>> For the two units?
>>> For the two units.
Then they would be left with 145 feet in depth for the commercial site.
>> Say again on the depth?
>>> I sort of drew it out.
>> You read my mind.
>>> Just now before I came up.
But it would essentially move this back 55 feet for the two units.
Like this.
And then they would be left with 145.
This building.
This is 100 feet?
>> So the biggest it would be in the depth, it would require 55 by 100 on the townhomes.
>>> 5446, technically, at a minimum.
>> But the biggest difference is that depth.
So these units they are proposing, they will not have back yards, they are going to have the commercial parking in the rear instead?
>>> Yes.
>> But in terms of the street frontage, we are only talking about a difference between -- what's their frontage now that they are proposing?
>>> 15 feet.
>> Each?
>>> The setbacks?
>> Oh, the frontage.
I apologize.
I don't actually know.
If you look at the pond with it --.
I don't know if you want top look at a pond with it.
The pond is basically servicing the commercial, probably.
>>> The units are 48 --
>> so that's 48 instead of 55.
And you have the side yards.
Okay.
So it might be like 50 something versus 55.
Okay.
Thank you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
(Motion carried)
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Since our last hearing, I have driven down Grenada.
I have looked at this.
And I thought about it.
And I really think that this is not an appropriate request to approve for the following reasons.
Number one, the proposed townhouses will not be having side yards, they will not be having rear yards.
The lot is simply too small for them.
And as the petitioner showed, they are immediately adjacent to and across from what appeared to be commercial sites.
And townhouses are residential uses.
And I just -- therefore, I move to disapprove this.
I would support the commercial portion of the PD that fronts on MacDill.
But I would not support the townhouse part of the proposal.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.
I'm sorry.
That motion is premature because we are still taking questions.
There was a motion that was made to close the public hearing.
I don't believe there was a second.
>>GWEN MILLER: There was a second.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: And a vote?
>>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I believe, Mr. Shelby, you were talking to me.
>>KEVIN WHITE: You're hungry, too.
I understand.
>>ROSE FERLITA: There's a conversation.
In Linda's conversation she said she would support the commercial but not the other.
But we just have to deny this completely and they can come back?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I guess vote to deny it.
My motion would be to deny the PD before us.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Second with discussion.
Although I think Mrs. Alvarez already said second.
My question is this.
And maybe it's very obvious to somebody else.
But I guess services are available from process to process.
Explain to me how this addresses the issue of parking.
How is it that they can come to us with a request for 100% compact parking stalls?
If I see compact parking and I have got a regular car or bigger, I'm not going to park there. So how does this alleviate the problem with the parking requirement?
If somebody can answer that, staff or somebody.
But that just kind of is stuffed all in there and I'm certainly not supportive of that.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Question.
Point of order if I can.
If this is relevant to the council's discussion I am going to ask for a motion to reopen the public hearing.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to reopen.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Always keep us straight, Mr. Shelby.
It's a way to get through this maze but actually don't think it's going to do well for the parking spot.
>>CATHERINE COYLE: We allowed the 65% compact spaces.
I believe Gloria address add similar situation last week before you.
And then the discussion was about cars actually getting larger, and people had to drive suburbans and Yukons and such.
The request before you is up to 82%, compact spaces, according to the staff report, anyway.
Which I believe is only a couple more spaces, three or four more spaces in addition.
The difference, in case you don't know, the standard space is nine feet wide, 18 feet deep, with 26 foot backout.
A compact space is eight feet wide, 16 feet deep, with a 24-foot backout.
There is several feet difference in depth.
I can only say historically, several projects, many projects come before you with additional compact spaces to make them fit.
It not commonly something that we do object to or raise issues to, because the code provides up to 65% with the addition of more beyond the required amount.
It's not something we actually have considered in the past as an objectionable issue, if they meet the required number.
>>ROSE FERLITA: But when you look at that in terms of impose an objection you certainly look at it in the scheme of everything so if we already have an objection from transportation, trying to squeeze more parking stalls in based on 100% compact parking stalls, there may be someplace where other situations not accompanying this I wouldn't have a problem with it.
But here ware already talking about the traffic, talking about one gentleman who is opposed to the project but saying, well, maybe part of it can be for the townhouses, park can be for commercial, oh, my Lord, that's Gulf of Mexico to be a big enforcement issue.
That's the commercial.
That's -- we are trying to squeeze this project into an area that it doesn't get into.
Just like we are trying to squeeze the parking requirement into an area that doesn't have enough space for that.
I can't support it.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to clarify one thing.
When I saw the drawings last week, unless they changed, the residential parking requirement that's required --.
>> Joo is two per unit and each has a two-car garage.
>> Underneath the residential building.
>>> Yes.
>> So all of the spaces that are out in the behind are the service the commercial.
>>> Yes.
>> Okay.
Now granted if they have guests, and we are still dealing with this guest issue, hasn't been resolved, but as of today the required parking for those units is underneath the townhomes themselves.
>>> That's correct.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's all I have to say.
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
>> Move to deny.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item number 11.
We have a motion and second to open item 11.
(Motion carried)
>>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.
I have been sworn in.
Petitioner is requesting to vacate a small portion of south 11th street from Cumberland, lying between Meridian and 12th street.
Council heard this last Thursday night and approved it for the Channelside village.
This is the proposed development area.
They are petitioning to vacate a small sliver of 11th street right here.
For point of reference is the Florida Aquarium. This is the parking structure that expands Cumberland.
Basically the area they are wanting to vacate is a small grass area that's designing our site.
This is 11th street looking south from Whiting Street.
And this is 11th street looking north towards Whiting.
They are trying to vacate.
Basically, it's a 60-foot right-of-way.
And at the intersection expands to 84 feet.
They are just trying to straight eastbound it -- straighten it up.
Dedicating additional right-of-way on the east side.
Staff has no objection.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>>> Michael Pruitt, East Kennedy Boulevard 33602.
I think Mr. Cook laid out what we are trying to do.
It has an unusual curve based on an historical alignment.
The result of this will be to straighten 11th street through the project.
It will maintain a 60-foot right-of-way consistent with the southern portion of 11th through the project.
And it will also reduce slightly the offset between 11th as it crosses Whiting.
So for that reason we ask for your approval.
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item 11?
>> Move to close.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, abandoning a certain portion of right-of-way a certain irregular shaped portion of south 11th street south of intersection with east Whiting Street, map of interstate investment CO's platinum 4 in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully described in section 2 subject to reservation of certain easements, certain covenants, conditions and restrictions, described herein, providing an effective date.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
Are we going to go through?
>>KEVIN WHITE: Still have seven, eight more to finish business and applications for board appointments.
I move that we adjourn till 1:30.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
How many Nays?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nay.
Rose row Nay.
>>GWEN MILLER: Coming back at 1:30.
(Meeting recessed)
>>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
>>GWEN MILLER: Here.
We need to open item number 12.
We have a motion and second to open item number 12.
Autumn in favor say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>>PETE COWELL: Good afternoon.
Pete Cowell, Land Development Coordination.
Before you is WZ-04-120, for beer and wine, incidental use to a 30-seat restaurant, the restaurant is up and running.
There are other wet zonings within 1,000 feet as has been listed in your staff report.
Residential is 86 feet away to an RM-24 zoning district.
And there is an institutional use also from 1,000 feet.
Council would need to provide waivers for all three in order to grant the petition.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
I have been sworn.
I talked to the adjoining neighbors of the restaurant.
They had no objections and the police department has no objections to the wet zoning.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
>> Larry power, the manager at 223 South Howard Avenue representing Robert Velasco.
We are just a small cafe.
We have approximately 30 seats.
We are doing things in the tradition of Tampa.
We are saying that we are a little mixture of Cuban, Italian, Spanish cuisine, and we are really just asking for some beer and wine to accent and highlight our menu, to complement all the food that we have.
Our hours are only Monday through Friday, open from 11 a.m. until 8 p.m.
And on the weekends we are actually open earlier in the morning because we are doing breakfast.
And Sundays that's all we are doing is breakfast.
I have some menus here if you are interested in looking at some of the menus.
>>KEVIN WHITE: We would an hour ago.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I don't mean to interrupt your presentation.
I'm just trying to orient myself.
You are open and where are you?
>> We are right smack on the corner of Howard and Platt.
We are on the northwest corner.
It's Mary Zs.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, just a reminder.
Have you been sworn?
>>> Yes, I have.
>> Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item 12?
>> Move to close.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Move an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more than 14% by weight beer and wines regardless of con alcoholic content for premises only in connection with a restaurant business establishment at that certain, lot, plat or tract of land at 223 South Howard Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
Item 13.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>PETE COWELL: Land Development Coordination.
Petition is WZ-04-128, for NYA corporation, 806 east Hillsborough Avenue. The request is for 2(APS) in a CG zoning district.
Petitioner is desirous of selling beer and wine as an incidental use to an existing service station.
There is a mobile gas station with a 2(APS) located 220 feet away, RS-50 zoning is 100 feet away, and there are two institutional uses within 1,000 feet as well.
Council would need to provide waivers for all three in order to grant the petition.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
I want to note a change to my staff report that I submitted to council.
Since I submitted the report I was contacted by the Seminole Heights homeowners association, and their representative is here to speak to you this morning.
Their stance changed on this wet zoning.
I want to tell you also that I talked to the adjoining neighbors, hair performance salon, the owner thought the petitioner was a good neighbor and felt like they had done their part to clean up that area of the corner that they were located on.
The department has no objections to the wet zoning.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there some history on this?
Was this before us last year?
>>PETE COWELL: Yes, sir.
It's come before you twice.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: The same exact petition?
>>> Uh-huh.
>> And we denied it?
>>> Yes, sir.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>>> I have been sworn in.
My husband and myself own the gas station at 806 east Hillsborough Avenue.
And we are looking for one-year condition on the wet zoning.
We met with the Seminole Heights homeowners association, and they have agreed to one-year condition on the terms that we do not have a pay phone outside, that we only have an ATM inside only, and that we keep the same hours of operation, on Sunday through Thursday, 6 to 10, and Friday and Saturday 6 to 11.
And we are just looking for one-year condition for the wet zoning.
>>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the audience want to speak on item 13?
>>> Good afternoon, council members.
Bill Duval, 5408 branch Avenue.
And I have been sworn.
I'm here representing the Old Seminole Heights neighborhood association, as you may have heard.
This petition has come before us twice before and in both cases we recommended denial.
We have changed our position.
First of all, the reason we denied it in the past was that we have a policy voted on by the membership that said no new APS zoning in Seminole Heights, not associated with restaurants, of course.
The reason for that is because approximately three reasons.
One is, the zoning stays with the property.
And so in spite of the current operator, we think long-term, we never know what the next owner is going to do with the property.
Second, there's really no way to -- no easy way to revoke wet zoning.
Mr. Michelini tells me there is.
Perhaps we'll retain him when the time comes but for now it's not easy to revoke wet zoning.
And third, we have a concern about the sale of cold, single beverages.
Our thinking is, if you buy a cold, single beverage, you get in your car and drive, are you going to drink there?
Are you going to be driving on the highway?
Or if you are walking through the neighborhood and you buy a cold, single, what are you going to do with it?
Well, transients are an issue in Seminole Heights.
And we try to do everything we can to discourage them hanging around.
But in this case, a one-year conditional seems to give us an option to revoke, because we can come back here at the end of the year.
Now why would we do that?
Well, the petitioner has had an opportunity to operate without the sale of beer for 18 months.
We have gotten to know the operation.
He and she have done an excellent job at cleaning up the property.
Officer Guffey can help me, but previous to their taking over the property, we had a number -- 150 calls of service in some period of time.
We have had zero since they have taken over.
They circulated their own petition.
(Bell sounds)
Wow, three minutes is fast.
>>GWEN MILLER: Yes, three minutes.
Wrap it up.
Finish.
>>> Well, we support the one-year conditional.
Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else in the audience like to speak on item 13?
>> Move to close.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Duval, could I ask you a -- could I follow up with a question, please?
I know Officer Guffey said there were some changes, and obviously I see them.
But my question is, on neighborhood watch association, Seminole Heights association as well as the Seminole Heights Baptist church and school.
The school feels it is too close to the neighborhood as there are too many wet zonings in the area.
I just wanted for clarification, you are not here to speak as a representative of Seminole Heights Baptist church?
>>> That's correct.
>> Have you had conversation with them?
>>> Not this time.
I have in the past.
>> Oh, yeah.
>>> But not this time.
>> So we don't know if they changed their position?
>>> Well, frankly, my -- well, I don't want to speak for them.
>> Okay.
Mr. Cowell, you wanted to say something?
>>PETE COWELL: I was going to say that if council does decide to approve this, it would be a conditional with conditions and it would have to come back next week for first reading.
We don't have an ordinance prepared.
>>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions from council members?
It not closed.
We have a motion and second to close the public hearing.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Go ahead, Kevin.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Madam Chair, I don't know what the Old Seminole Heights association -- I see Mr. Duval's point here, that this petition has come before us twice before.
And I think the main thing I'm looking at which is the closest and most directly affected, this is at the entrance ramp of Hillsborough Avenue and the interstate and Old Seminole Heights Baptist church is directly across the street.
You can throw a rock straight across the street.
On the petitioner's behalf, I use your gas station.
You have some of the cheapest gas in town.
And I use it quite frequently.
And I'm serious.
But by the same token, there's alcohol directly on the other side of the interstate already at the Amoco on one end and Hillsborough and Nebraska there's alcohol there as well.
On the first time you came before us, the neighborhood association said there were vagrants, there's loitering, there's beer cans all up and down the street directly behind the adjacent property.
I am one that I would love to be able to support this particular petition.
But with the school being so close, the church being directly impacted across the street, and not only that, I don't feel comfortable, because I know the Seminole Heights civic association, they came out in the past to petitions as well to oppose this wet zoning.
And I don't know if Beverly Morrows had the opportunity to weigh in on this.
I haven't received a letter from her either.
But they have come out in each of the past petitions and I know the trend is not for any more wet zonings in the Seminole Heights area.
And because of these conditions, or the waivers of the condition of the institutional issues, institutions around the particular petition, I'm going to request for denial.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'll support that.
Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second for denial.
All in favor say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
Petition is denied.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Cowell, I was unclear.
How often can a particular petition keep coming before council?
>>> Six months.
>> So it can be repetitive?
>>> Six months.
>>GWEN MILLER: 4 to 3, denied.
It was 4-3.
>> Who were the three that supported?
>>GWEN MILLER: Against denial.
All right.
We are on item 14.
>> Move to open.
>> Move to open.
(Motion carried)
>>PETE COWELL: WZ 05-24, property management doing business as 1805 east 7th Avenue.
The current zoning inside the building is a 4(COP).
They are requesting a 4(COP) for their sidewalk cafe.
It is a YC-1 zoning district.
The petitioner is requiring to sell full liquor.
It's an incidental use to the restaurant.
There are several wet zonings.
See the attached list.
It's quite lengthy.
The nearest residential is in YC-7 approximately 300 feet away.
There are institutional uses within the thousand feet as well.
State museum, Centennial Park, Sheriff's Department, need to provide waivers for all three in order to grant petition.
Thank you.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Cowell, do you have the geographical map?
We didn't get in the our packet.
>>PETE COWELL: I'm sorry.
You want the regular site plan?
Hang on.
>> No, not the site plan.
Just give us our bearings on that.
>>> This is 7th Avenue across the center.
This is the Italian club.
This is an open patio, enclosed this when it was cocoa's.
Then you have the buildings and the patio on the other side where he's proposing, the request is only in front of the actual building itself.
>> The building is still wet?
>>> The building is wet.
The patio to the east is wet with 4(COP).
He's requesting 5 foot wide by roughly 40 feet long.
>> Is the building being used?
>>> The building is active at this time.
>> As what?
>>> As Gaspar's Grotto.
>> There was no gap in time?
>>> No, sir.
Not enough of a gap in order to discontinue the wet zoning.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
I spoke with the neighbors around this location.
They felt that the sidewalk cafe would be a welcome addition, in that area on 7th Avenue.
There were other sidewalk cafes as well on 7th Avenue.
The department has no opposition to this wet zoning.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>> I'm Alex Shaw and I have been sworn in.
I'm going to read you something that's prepared.
I'll try not to make it boring and sound like I'm reading it.
And I'm doing that just so I make all the points for the record.
My wife Sherri and I are long-time Ybor City property owners and business people.
We have been down there for 19 years.
And we have owned this property for 19 years.
We are operating world famous Gaspar's grotto on this property.
It's a Gasparilla and pirate themed venue on 7th Avenue.
We cater to adults, locals, convention groups and visitors.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Excuse me.
Can we see if there's anybody in opposition?
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item 14?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It might be able to speed things up.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second to close the public hearing.
(Motion carried)
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move a resolution authorizing sale of beverages containing alcohol 4(COP) for consumption on premises in sealed containers on and off premises in connection with a sidewalk cafe, business establishment, certain lot plat or tract of land at 1805 east 7th Avenue, Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section 2 hereof providing an effective date.
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
Question on the motion?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: For the record I wanted to be sure the petition her no objection to having the hearing closed at this time.
(Laughter)
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>KEVIN WHITE: I wanted to say one thing.
I had an opportunity to meet with him and he runs a wonderful establishment which used to be Harpos, with a lounge on the outside and two patio bars, and since he's taken over and it's become Gaspar's grill, it's a wonderful theme, and they have live bands and everything, and very responsible.
Anywhere there's entertainment, I'm there.
And food.
>> Need to open item 15.
>> So moved.
(Motion carried)
>>PETE COWELL: It's petition WZ-05-25.
It's for Minor's Market located at 2511 West Swann Avenue.
Petitioner is requesting a 2(APS) wet zoning in a CI zoning district for an existing market.
There are other wet zonings within 1,000 feet.
There's also residential within 1,000 feet and institutional uses within 1,000 feet.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
My report reflects that there's been one call for service at this location during the time that the market has been in operation.
That's actually come from the petitioner.
I contacted Parkland Estates.
They advised that they were against this wet zoning being passed.
They feel that this opens the door to other wet zoning on the west side of Howard Avenue.
The St. John's church and school was also against this wet zoning being passed being that they felt it was too close to the school.
I interviewed the neighbor directly behind, which is a doctor's office.
He fully supported this wet zoning being granted, as well as other neighbors to the north of the business, and new townhouses had just been constructed.
The petitioner has as well other information from other neighbors.
And I think he'll present that to you.
The department has no objections to the wet zoning.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>> Good afternoon, council.
John Minor, 204 south Audubon Avenue, I apologize, I have not been sworn in.
(oath administered by clerk)
I want to go over a few things with you.
This is the second tame we have come back.
We were back a few months ago before we had opened.
Now, this week, we have been open six months.
I felt it gave people in the community an opportunity to come into our store, see what we were about, and maybe get an idea of the concept that we have.
One other point I would like to make real quick is the one call the police department got which was actually from us was before we were open.
It was while construction was happening on our property.
And it was someone had popped a pin to a door to get in.
It was a sub that left his tools inside.
So we have had no calls.
Basically, it's a gourmet food store that we put together.
If you go to other areas in the country, other cities have these wonderful gourmet markets, high-end products.
It's pricey.
No lie.
And there is kind of a need for that in this market, this area.
People want good imported cheese, and imported foods, and there really isn't this sort of concept that's been done yet in this area.
There is a lot of misconceptions or rumors that my wife and I are possibly in some kind of business deal with other people in the area, other businessmen or businesses, period.
And I want to go on record and say my wife and I own Minor's Market and are the sole owners of Minor's Market.
So we opened the doors.
And people come in.
Very popular question: Where is the wine?
Most people that shop in our store pick up some great gourmet items.
And that is a very common question.
Even people that opposed us before have been in and said, you know what?
Now that I see you're open, I see what you're doing, I do not have a problem.
You know, can you go back and can you get zoned to where you can sell wine?
That's why we are here today.
We really cater to our customers.
A lot of our products in our store are actually requests from customers.
They say, hey, in Chicago they had this wonderful product there, can you get it? Yes.
We track it down and we bring it in.
Actually, we have got a few petitions.
The first stack are general petitions that we started collecting.
Customers, people in the general vicinity, although every signature helps, we really want to focus mainly on people that live in the area and close by.
We felt that is important as opposed to someone faxing us a petition from Arizona or something.
Obviously they have been in the store and love it, but does that really fit into the grand scheme of things here?
Having wine in the store, it could be a crucial piece of the puzzle.
In order for to us grow, and for us to expand on this concept that we have, and really grow it to the store that we want it to be, we really need the extra revenue.
Being in the food business, we have a gourmet chef there.
He makes meals to go.
We make sandwiches and salads all day.
We are open in the morning for coffee.
And seeing that we deal with a lot of food, we also have a lot of waste, unfortunately.
It's just one of those things.
And to have the wine help out with that burden, you know, dealing in food, it would help tremendously, just from a financial standpoint.
On top of the fact that our original financial projections had a percentage that voted towards wine sales.
It's very hard to close out at the end of every day and say, you know what?
We have missed our sales goals by a certain percentage, and guess what that percentage is.
It's exactly what we thought the wine sales would be.
It's hard.
We are a new business.
We are an independent business.
And we are trying to grow and we are trying to stay alive and make this work.
But, you know, the amount of business that's coming in is not rapid enough.
There's not enough growth to survive.
There just isn't.
Especially when people come in and they want it to be a one-stop shop.
I bought some great imported cheese and some wonderful on the products in the store, but you don't have the wine.
You know, now I have to go somewhere else in order to get it.
It makes it a little difficult.
Also, on competition, you know, it's an amazing thing when you get involved in something like this.
You find out just how a lot of big companies that you almost feel you have to do business with, how they will cut Kash N' Karry, such a huge break, and I end up paying more for their products than what anyone in this room one pay going to Kash N' Karry and buying it there. It's hard.
It allows us a little bit of an edge to stay competitive, and actually make a profit.
I have got one that comes to mind, popular soda manufacturer, begins with a "C".
I lose money selling their product.
I just do.
It makes it difficult.
Also in our store, another point I want to touch on is we are not a 7-Eleven.
We are not a regular convenience store.
We do not sell lottery tickets.
We do not sell any kind of magazines, pornographic or otherwise.
We don't even sell cigarettes.
Details of our store, it's 3,830 square feet.
The area that we want to actually use for wine and imported beers is actually 120 square feet.
Or roughly 3.33% of the square footage of our space.
There is ample parking.
There's actually 73 parking spaces in a completely redone parking lot.
And I also have to make a statement concerning that, too.
In order for us to even open there and do business, there are certain codes that the city has that we need to meet, requiring parking, and we met all those codes.
Also with the parking lot, there is preexisting lighting that we did not put up that consists of nine poles in the lot and five lights on the building on the side facing Tampania where we are.
And then there's four streetlights the owner recently put up also on Tampania.
We have an alarm system on our store, obviously.
And we have plenty of signage stating so.
Hopefully as some kind of deterrent.
And a big thing that I want to mention is the fact that we actually face Tampania.
We are not on Swann and do not face Swann.
In the diagram here, you will see, this is the building.
We are actually this block right here on the back side of the building.
This is Tampania.
This is Swann Avenue.
And this whole thing here is actually the parking lot.
There's a dentist that just went into the building and he's literally on the side of us facing Swann, right here.
There are two spaces still vacant in the building.
But again we do not face Swann.
We are facing Tampania on the back side of the building.
Also, I just wanted to make a quick note, too.
As far as Swann, this area has been zoned commercial for years.
I'm not coming in there with trying to get rezoned so we can do commercial business or something.
It's been zoned commercial.
And actually I happen to have a couple of photographs of my store, although they are a little dark.
I can pass them around to you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?
>>GWEN MILLER: I'm going to stop.
We have some questions for you.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What are the hours of your market?
>> Hours of operation are -- and I have it in print and I have it in ads in print coming out soon.
Right there.
Open Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 8 a.m.
Saturday 8 a.m. to 7 p.m.
And closed on Sundays.
That is the way it's been for six months and that is the way it's going to stay because if I work any longer I am going to drop dead.
Sorry, it's true.
New business, new baby, and very difficult.
There is a lot of concerns, I know about vagrants and that sort of thing.
I mean, again, let's be honest here.
Anybody that's been in my store knows we don't sell cheap stuff.
I have small 8 ounce bottles that go for $37.
I have got small bags of potato chips at $4.
Sure, do we have Coke and other things?
Absolutely.
Am I going to be selling Budweisser at 2 bucks?
No, that doesn't happen it is not the product mix in my store.
Especially when CVS is just down the street where you can buy Budweiser for 99 cents a can, I will not sell single bottle beverages like that.
It just will not happen.
And they are open 24 hours on top of it.
On top of the fact a vagrant would have to be carrying a corkscrew or bottle opener in order to have any of the items that I sell.
We have been open for six months.
We have had no vagrants.
And again, one of the common things that comes to mind, if you think of a gourmet store is, they probably have wine there.
I mean, these vagrants don't know that we don't have it.
So why haven't they been in to buy it?
And the amount of doctors I have around me are unbelievable.
I have got a dentist.
I have an eye surgeon beside us in the next parcel.
I have on the other side of the parking lot a plastic surgeon.
And there is a -- new facility just opened up, a dermatologist.
On top, I have petitions from Audubon medical.
All these institutions have said, you know, we have been in, we see what you're doing, we get the concept, we don't have a problem with this.
And, I mean, they have got a lot to lose.
They have a lot of money tied up in the businesses.
A lot of them have been established for a long time.
If they don't have a problem and don't see a certain fear of vagrants or loitering or crime, I mean, they are right next door to us.
Also, I have not heard of any apparent vagrant issue.
>>GWEN MILLER: I'm going to have to stop you and see if there is anyone in opposition to you.
You can come back for rebuttal.
Before we to that Mrs. Alvarez has a question.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
Thank you, Mr. Minor.
When I first heard that you went ahead and opened your market, I was very, very happy that you did, because I thought at that time, I voted for your zoning the last time.
And I thought that was very admirable of you to do it with the opposition that you were getting, that you had gotten, and that you did it because you wanted to show the people around there that you are an honorable man, you and your wife, and I think you are doing a great job.
I have heard nothing but good things about you.
So I just wanted to let you know.
Thank you.
>>> Thank you, ma'am.
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item number 15?
If you want to speak, come up to the microphone.
>> I apologize.
I have not been sworn in, as well as Ms. Adams.
>>GWEN MILLER: Those who have not been sworn in, would you please raise your right hand?
(Oath administered by clerk)
>>GWEN MILLER: One second, please.
The timer was not on, and I understand that he has ten more minutes.
He did speak.
Where is he?
Do you want to speak some more?
>>> I'll tell you. What I am going to try to summarize very quick.
I apologize.
I know it's been a long day for everybody.
Just a few more things I'd like to point out.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, if you can, just so you know, procedural due process requires that you have the time to make your presentation a total of 30 minutes.
>>> And I know that, but I know everybody is tired.
I already lost some people that were going to speak, and had other commitments.
It's been a difficult day for everybody.
Even the people that were going to come oppose me.
I know it's not fun for them either.
Let me just turn in this.
I just want to say in that stack of petitions there are actually everyone on our street, which is Tampania, all the new townhouses that have been built, some people have just moved in, and have spent over $300,000 on townhomes.
They have all signed petitions.
There's a developer going to make townhomes there that are going to be close to 500,000.
Businesses.
The children's nest daycare center, which in the pictures that are floating around, you can see in proximity how close we are to them.
They signed a petition in support of this.
There is also petitions from residents of Parkland Estates in there.
There's a pile of them.
I'll come back for rebuttal.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Now you may start.
>>> Good afternoon.
My name is Candy Hopson, I live at 81 Adogga Avenue on Davis Island, a member of the St. John's Greek Orthodox, also a parent of 8-year-old twins that attended the school for the past five years.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Have you been sworn?
>>> Yes.
Just a moment ago.
I'm sorry.
I'm here to speak on behalf of our school's headmaster Mr. Jim Larkin who is out of town unfortunately and our 190 students.
The school vehemently opposes the sale of alcoholic beverages in our neighborhood.
We previously opposed wet zoning because of the market's extreme proximity to the school.
We have strong concerns of drinking in the market's parking lot by individuals who make purchases from the market and then make the unfortunate choice to drive while under the influence east on Swann Avenue past our church and our school.
We find the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages purchased at the market potentially dangerous to our students and their parents as they leave school grounds at after- school hours activities.
The traffic congestion in front of the school at the intersection of Swann and Armenia Avenue is already problematic and potentially creates a situation for those who are stuck in traffic to choose to drink and drive once they purchased alcoholic beverages.
The school has been in existence at 2418 Swann Avenue since 1967 and has seen many changes take place in the neighborhood, particularly along Swann Avenue and Howard Avenue.
The sale of alcoholic beverages by a business with such close proximity to our school is permit ago potentially unsafe environment for our children.
I also want to point out that the issue of vagrants being in the neighborhood, with a business closing at 8 p.m., how could you possibly know that you have vagrants on the ground?
And I can tell you that the school has had issues with vagrants in the past on school ground not only during school hours but also after hours.
So I don't think that's a very fair comment from Mr. Minor.
I also think that with regard to the sale of the alcohol with such close proximity that we are just promoting a continued unsafe environment for kids.
We have many school -- after-school activities that include transporting students from across the City of Tampa from various schools like Carrollwood day school, and I think it's not a very safe place.
I thank you for letting me be a voice for the 190 children who attend St. John Greek orthodox school.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>> Good afternoon.
My name is Tina Adams.
And I have been sworn in.
And I reside at 2501 fountain Boulevard which backs up to Swann.
And my son mark attends St. John's day school.
I want to thank you all for previously denying this motion and helping us to protect our neighborhood, our school, and the church, St. John's Greek Orthodox Church because it's such a wonderful landmark for Tampa.
And I just wanted to say that thank you, Commissioner White, for bringing up earlier about Seminole Heights, about the close proximity of alcohol sales to the school and the church, and how detrimental that can be in the long run.
I don't think anybody has any qualms with the Minors.
They are very, very nice people.
I think the problem is that the wet zoning stays with the building.
And we don't know how long Minor's Market is going to be there, and how long it may not be there.
So the next owners, are they going to be responsible and nice people, or are they going to be 7-Eleven because that's the same wet zoning that they have acquired?
I think Tampa has done a very good job in the past in zoning Howard and Hyde Park for wet zoning, and those areas have lots of vacancies, and that would be a perfect place for an alcohol area.
And then you wouldn't have to go and try and get these waivers, very people are concerned about the safety of their homes and churches and schools.
I know that in my opinion, it isn't in the public's best interest to award this because the waivers have not been obtained, and we have other areas.
South Howard, and Hyde Park, that can fulfill the wine needs, and I just wanted to read one other thing, that the president of the homeowners association had to leave, and homeowners association represents almost 60% of the 350 homes, and Parkland Estates, and he said, the Parkland Estates civic club has requested waivers by City Council to deny their request for waiver of the distance separation requirement for an establishment selling alcohol.
The waiver is opposed for the following reasons related to the sale of alcohol.
Increased vehicle traffic, especially after 5:00 p.m., traffic jams on Swann, Armenia --.
(Bell sounds)
Oops. Anyway, thank you for your patience.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is Fred Astafers, 8702 Palisades Drive, priest at St. Johns Orthodox Church, Swann Avenue.
There is a reason that the law, zoning ordinances exist that prohibit the sale of alcohol in close proximity to churches and schools.
In setting up zoning for residences, businesses and other things, the thinking, it would seem to me, is to legislate that there are certain places where it is appropriate to have residences, certain places where it is not, certain places where it is appropriate to have churches and schools and certain places where it is not.
And there are certain place where is it is appropriate for stores that sell alcohol, and certain places where it is not.
St. John's Greek Orthodox Church has been at 2418 Swann Avenue since 1966.
Almost 200 students attend school at St. John's school each day.
After-school sports and other activities means that children at the school until 7:00 most evenings.
The Boy Scouts meet at St. John's on Monday nights and youth from the church meet each weekend.
This location in such close proximity to a church and school full of minors on a daily basis is not an appropriate place for alcohol to be sold.
Not now and not in the future should the property convey an alcoholic sales be allowed to continue through its conveyance.
As a priest, as a teacher, as a youth worker, I struggle to keep our kids away from the dangers of alcohol.
It's a slap in the face top what we are trying to do to allow alcohol to be sold only a few feet from our church and school.
I'm not opposed to alcohol, just not on an everyday basis next to our church and school.
I would ask the council to respect our church and school and follow the law in that section.
Thank you very much.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Father, just a question.
Have you all ever been given temporary wet zonings?
>>> Yes, for our festival.
Three days.
>> For your festivals.
And you have a church hall that you all rent out for social events?
>>> We do not rent it out presently and haven't for some time.
>> But you have had.
And they were allowed to bring their own liquor and so on?
>>> I have been with the church since September and they haven't done it since my arrival.
>> But the church and the school has had temporary wet zonings before?
>>> The church gets a 3-day temporary wet zoning for the festival, and on that day the school is closed and there is advertisements of alcohol and advertising free of children.
>> Thank you.
I just want to remind everybody that this is not a bar we are talking about.
We are talking about a grocery store.
And the market.
It's not like people are going to come in in full force and drink and take their bottles out and drink.
This is just not the case.
And I respect everybody for coming and talking about this.
But you're making this sound like it's a bar on 7th Avenue.
Give us a break here.
>>GWEN MILLER: Next.
>>> I have been sworn.
I'm Andy Palumbu, Ontario Avenue, Davis Island.
I have been asked to represent the parish council of St. John Greek Orthodox Church.
This is the second time we have appeared regarding this.
Mrs. Alvarez, I know it's not the bar on 7th Avenue.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
>>> I understand that.
You asked the question to me the last time I was here about our having the wet zone.
Yes, we do.
It's a three-day.
And it is just for our festival.
At one time, they were renting the facilities to a large number of different organizations.
When I went on two years ago as the president of the parish council, we took a look at the operation and we stopped that, because people were bringing their own beer and liquor, et cetera, and were getting out of control.
Rather than continue that, we stopped all of that catering.
And it's been at great cost as far as we're concerned.
But nevertheless it is important.
And we did stop that because they were doing more damage than they were in putting money into our coffers.
One of the things that I am concerned about is the fact that we do have a regulation that says a thousand feet from a school, from a church.
The regulations, if they are to be modified, I think should have a very specific reason for being modified.
I don't see that.
I see a young couple who have started a business, and I think -- I am very, very pleased that they did open the market.
When you give a zoning, a wet zoning for beer and alcohol, there is nothing in that that will say you cannot sell any beer or wine for under 30 or $40 a bottle.
If, as Mr. Minor said, it is a difficult job of starting a market, and making it a success.
If it does fail, that wet zoning will stay with that building.
And then I think we will see whatever comes in.
We are asking you not to put us all in jeopardy, because as was stated earlier, how easy is it to withdraw wet zoning after it has been given?
I don't think that we want to see this petition awarded, because it does create a great many problems for all of us.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Good afternoon.
I'm Dan Kelly.
I have been sworn in.
Reside at 2109 Bayshore Boulevard.
I am going to start off by saying I do support this.
I support John and Jenny minor.
I have been a client of theirs.
I have been in the store.
I have been one of those people saying, great.
Here's my dinner.
Where's the wine?
I'm a professional.
I work very long hours.
I don't always have time to make my own dinner.
They have an amazing chef.
Great food.
As you can tell I'm also advertising.
I go there to get my dinner and I go there to get a bottle of wine, that I am not going to pop the top on in the middle of a parking lot.
I don't happen to carry a corkscrew in my car.
I get my food and get my wine and I go back into my condo, I sit on my patio, I eat my food and I drink my wine.
These are very responsible people.
One thing, when people talk about the future, by denying this, you're denying a bit of their future, with worrying about the "what could" and the "what if".
What if they close.
Ladies and gentlemen, CVS on the corner of Howard and Swann also has a liquor license, they can sell.
What if CVS goes out of business?
They are also a stone's throw away.
I wonder why people in the community are saying, no, we know you're good people.
But why are we denying them a right to sell something that goes along well with their business?
And again, we are talking about a higher dollar.
I am willing to go into that store and pay higher than market value on a lot of items, because you can't get them anywhere else, because it is a fabulous store and they are great people.
Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is George Nurser, 1861 Clara Court.
I have been sworn in. I am here to speak in favor of this
proposal.
I'm speaking in favor of it for two reasons.
One, the Minors.
And they are such a wholesome and loving young couple, and will benefit that neighborhood as is their business.
This business, as is stated, is not a bar, not a restaurant, it's not a convenience store.
It's a very high-end, specialty gourmet market that sells coffee, fancy Starbuck's in the morning, and lunches and salads and soups at noon, and you can swing in there, in the afternoon and pick up chef-prepared take-home dinners, and some new specialty high-end grocery items.
For those of you that haven't been in, if you are familiar with the fresh market, imagine a fresh market absent the meat department, absent the produce department, it's some specialty groceries, and that little section that has the high-end cheeses and specialty foods to take home.
That's what they offer.
That's what we are talking about here.
They employ three people.
John Minor, Jenny Minor, and achieve that prepares the food.
It's a real contribution to the neighborhood.
I strongly encourage you to support it.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. Next.
>> Karen Measelle, South Tampania Avenue.
I speak on behalf of Mary Jo Silo, who is here today.
>>GWEN MILLER: Read the name.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Mary Jo?
>>> She's here.
>> Two minutes for the baby, too?
>> I also speak on behalf of my husband who cannot be here today and we are in support of the zoning for Minor's Market, 505 south Tampania Avenue about one block from the market.
John and Jenny Minor opened the market that is undoubtedly an asset to our community.
Their store provides a unique atmosphere and field to the area that a chain store could not.
Their location also alleviates some of the traffic problems on Swann between Howard and Armenia by providing a lunch alternative for restaurants on Howard for people coming from the hospital and medical offices that are west of Tampania.
The products they provide are all gourmet and consequently are expensive.
People who may do harm to the area or to the children in the area would not be able to afford the prices.
The Minors are responsible church members who also are parents themselves and they understand their responsibility to refrain from selling alcoholic beverages to people of questionable motives.
I fully trust them to not only sell their alcoholic beverages but also call the police if they were to see people loitering in the area.
My husband and I plan on start ago family soon, as do other couples in the neighborhood and we do not question our children will not be in danger.
I feel the only child who could be in any danger based on this decision is a minor whose parents could be in serious financial trouble if they are not permitted this wet zoning.
Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is Christy Simon.
I live at 2614 Parkland Boulevard.
I have been sworn in.
My children both attend St. John Greek and living on Parkland Boulevard, I'm very close to Minor's Market.
I am not questioning the market.
I think it's a wonderful thing they have done.
I think they are wonderful people.
But there is a place for everything.
This is the fourth time we have been to wet zoning on this property, twice for the Minors.
There are always good reasons to do things and I'm sure in their heart they feel this will make them successful.
At he can wards the other day or CVS, and the problem is people don't know they are there.
They need to be known they are there.
I don't know why wine has to make a business successful.
The variance sentence needed, as we said, all the doctors are in favor.
Variances are not to protect doctors, they are to protect the neighbors, to protect the schools, and they are to protect the church.
It does not benefit the school or the church or our neighborhood in any way that I can see.
There are wine places to go that are available, easy distance. The wine next to Waley's has great wine.
You just vote and turned down beer and wine in the same district right across from a church and you said, no way.
I understand you know the Minors.
I understand you have their food.
It's great.
But that doesn't change the variance and the need for variances so I'm asking you to turn it down.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Minor, do you want rebuttal?
>> No.
Can I speak real quick?
I'm Jenny Minor.
I just wanted to mention that we do own a home nearby so I'm real nervous.
We have lived there almost seven years.
So we live in the neighborhood.
I don't know why I'm so upset.
But I think that we help alleviate a lot of traffic.
I know Karen mentioned it.
People can come in and stop and get food to go.
It's alleviating a lot of traffic jam on Swann and Armenia and Howard.
So traffic is actually a non-issue because we help the situation.
People can come by de Leon, and not be affected by the Howard traffic.
So I think we are a positive thing right there.
I hope you guys kind of know where we are.
We did look to go on Hyde Park, and would be even a bigger burden.
This is a nice big space.
If you look out over the church you can't even see where we are.
We are along the back side.
Kids can't see it.
Like they said people have to know where we are and I think by word of mouth it will get to that point.
But we do have signed waivers.
Medical, we got it from the children's nest, the other civic association, I spoke to the president yesterday, frank cane.
He had no problem it with.
Division of Blind Services, got their waiver as well, signed a petition in favor. The last two Sundays we walked Parkland Estates neighbor to neighbor, house to house, and by far the majority of the people didn't even know we were coming up against this.
We have turned in petitions for them.
And some people maybe just didn't want to get involved, but they had no problem it with.
And they are not here now.
So we have tried the last two weekends and we have gotten really good feedback from Parkland Estates.
I know there's other people here speaking but for those people I feel I can say, we are just really welcome there, when we were in the neighborhood walking around the past two Sundays.
We would just like a chance.
I have heard mentioned, a condition, and we would just like a chance.
Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Minor.
>> John Minor: Thank you very much.
I want to show one photo real quick if I could.
It is dark.
I'll pass it around so you can see it.
But it's actually -- let's take it from the side of the Greek church.
And it's -- CVS is directly on.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: You can put that on the -- is it too dark?
>>> I'll show it and then pass it around.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's okay.
>>> Okay.
Here's the corner of their fence, which actually CVS is off to the side.
This is the bank.
This building here is actually the law office of Townsend and Associates.
This big white sign is the old metroplex sign where they took it down.
That's how far we are in relation to this, and not to mention the fact that we are around the corner on Tampania.
So we are well, you know, we are a good distance away from the church.
Granted not the thousand feet.
But keep in mind they are the Swann address.
So I'm not sure how that measures out.
Someone comment board of director whether I know there's vagrants or not.
I'm a small business owner.
After we close at 8:00, there's many nights I'm there working late on paperwork.
It's just a fact.
I have never had an issue, on top of the fact that I've spent money.
I've got cameras.
And I watch videotapes for the middle of the night to just see if there is people wondering around.
I've seen nothing.
I have no problem with vagrants around my property.
Traffic.
My wife touched on that.
We alleviate traffic.
It gives people an opportunity to go up Tampania to DeLeon.
I would like to thank councilwoman Alvarez for mentioning some of her points including the Greek festival.
Recently they had one.
I allowed people to park in my lot and I had people actually come to my store with cups of alcohol in the cup.
Kind of bothers me a little bit, you know.
It's supposed to be confined to a certain area, and I have people come back to my establishment with cups of alcohol.
How does that happen?
I have to cry foul on that.
Expiration of 2(APS) if we should leave.
If there's any way possible that council can make that happen, I certainly do not have a problem with that.
We are not in this to sell the business tomorrow and move away.
This is something -- I have got a 3 month old daughter.
This is way planned on using to put into college.
And as far as harming children -- as far as harming children, my wife and child are the most important thing.
And if I thought for a second, I would be putting them in harm's way, I would not be standing here before you.
If it would please the council, I am open toward a one-year conditional.
Absolutely.
I think we went into this and we tried to show that we can be good neighbors.
You know, we have tried to address as many points as we can.
We have tried to make it work.
Unfortunately, I have been in a lot of businesses for a lot of years and I'm really good with numbers.
And I know when the numbers aren't coming together, you know, like I say, we had a very, very strong financial plan coming into this.
And I know what we are missing.
And, unfortunately, this is one of the areas.
>> Mrs. Alvarez.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Mr. Minor.
I just had a couple of questions about the food to go.
>>> Yes.
>> What is the actual time that your biggest purchases are, when you're selling the food?
What is the time?
>>> The largest time of the day that we actually move food is between 12:00 and 1:00 for lunch.
And then usually between 5:00 and 6:00 is the next biggest hour of the day.
And I track that daily.
>> Oh, you do?
>>> Yes.
>> The reason I was asking that was because at that time, of the time the kids are already in school, they are having their lunch at that time, except for -- what time did you say, 12 to what?
>>> 12 to 1.
>> so they are in school and having lunch.
So from five to six?
>>> Five to six.
>> So then that school is over.
And there's no children around at that time.
>>> That's correct.
>> And you did agree to a one-year condition, right?
>>> I have no problem with that.
If that pleases council.
>> And you don't have a pay phone outside?
>>> No, ma'am, I do not.
>> Your hours are pretty good.
The other comment I just want to make is tell my colleague that it not the only neighborhood in that area.
There are other neighborhoods around that support this.
>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
>> Move to close.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: In addition to the one-year conditional, we have a rule that I think it still exists that we sort of have to ask you if would you voluntarily accept conditions.
And it intrigued me that you also mentioned about that you don't sell screw-top bottles, or -- I'm not sure what you said about cans.
But what I am going to suggest, in addition to the one-year conditional, since you volunteered that, is if you would also consider imposing on yourself no screw-top bottles, and no cans, no cans --.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Alcohol?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Alcohol, as an additional position.
The lawyer will speak to that.
And let me just finish, Kate, before you get into it.
This was a tough one the last time and it's still tough.
And I understand where the neighbors and the church are coming from because they are worried about the slippery slope.
And if we approve you, then the next thing is we are going to have Howard Avenue come down Swann Avenue.
And I'm extremely sympathetic to that.
But, at the same time, I think what you have shown over the last six months, and with these limitations, being that I think extremely reasonable, I don't think there's any such thing as inexpensive, you know, bottles that you can't screw off, or inexpensive beer that comes otherwise.
So I think that will limit you, if you accept that, I think that would limit you in terms of being the high end, and also -- I don't know about selling singles.
Maybe that's something else we want to talk about.
I don't think there's anybody that I've ever met that cares more about church and children than Mary Alvarez.
And for her to be in support of this, I mean, I know how strongly she feels about her church and her children and grandchildren.
And it's definitely a tough one.
I'm going to support it if you can live with those conditions.
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: Legal department.
With regard to the conditions, the only type of condition that must be offered up by the petitioner is the one-year conditional.
With respect to the other conditions related to the hours of sale, the location of the business, and sanitary regulations associated with that location, those may be imposed by council.
Amending the code in the last two years to allow for that.
My concern with regard to restricting the type of sales is the research I have done in this area, but support the fact that that ability is preempted to the state and is beyond local jurisdiction.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we have had this discussion before.
And, frankly, I'm willing to take the risk.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's conditional.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm willing to take the risk.
I don't know who is going to sue us about that type of condition.
If the neighborhood sues us and challenges us, then we'll let the courts decide.
And that's the risk we can take.
But I don't know that it's hard and fast.
I understand that is your best opinion, and I usually accept your best opinion, and you know that.
But in this case, I think that we need to balance the needs of the community and the needs of this family and this business, and try to come up with a compromise.
And I think that's a very reasonable compromise, to mandate that there would be no screw-top bottles and no cans sold, and no single-beers, and limit the hours of operation, and have a one-year conditional.
I think with all of that, there's a lot of conditions that can protect that neighborhood and that church.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Dingfelder, I kind of tend to agree with you, except on most imported beers and things of that nature, I believe the great majority of those are screw-top, or twist-top.
On bottles.
And of course if they do sell cans, there's a pop-up lid on that.
But I would certainly be supportive of the one-year conditional, and for members in the audience, each petition stands on its own merit.
And the last petition that came before us is in the southeast Seminole Heights area, still relatively known for high traffic amount of vagrants.
This area, the South Howard district, is not.
The Seminole Heights Baptist church, every other neighborhood association came out in droves to oppose that, and both of the previous hearings.
But we do have some opposition.
We do have some support here.
Also, since I have been on council, I have not seen one wet zoning petition come before this council for Seminole Heights Baptist church.
Since I have been on this council, I can think of at least three that St. Johns Greek Orthodox Church has.
I think it's kind of hypocritical whether it's for a fund-raiser, for a three-day zoning, whatever, to say, well, we can sell alcohol for our purposes, but the Minors cannot for their purposes, whether it's three days or three months.
Or conditionally for a year.
CVS is on the corner.
They do sell individual cans of beer for a dollar 29.
And a bargain at any price, Mrs. Alvarez, you're right.
>> And gas.
>>> I buy my gas but I don't drink beer.
Won't say never will, but never have.
Don't like it.
But by the same token, even if it was vagrants, and for the neighbors that are saying that they feel the irresponsibility of people drinking and driving.
I don't -- it doesn't really matter to me whether it's chilled or not.
I just don't see someone going into a gourmet shop, as Mr. Minor alluded to the last time he was here, buying a $150 bottle of Dom Perignon and popping the cork and driving down the stream and finding empty bottles of Dom Perignon in the surrounding areas.
I don't see that happening.
But that's the end of my commentary.
And I will be in support of the petition as I was last time.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
I'll make a motion to --
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm not the expert on the laws of wet zoning.
I have a lot of questions myself.
I just want to share with Council that I do have a concern that Ms. O'Dowd raised a legal issue.
She does not have the background today to share with council.
I'm concerned from a legal perspective as to what the effect would be.
So if the motion involves a condition that raises a concern raised by Ms. O'Dowd, I would ask for an opportunity for a short continuance.
>> I'm going to make a different motion.
>>GWEN MILLER: Ms. O'Dowd said what we can put on the petition and I don't think we are going to go --.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not necessarily the case.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait a minute.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm requesting research to protect council's position.
>> If we are going to do something.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I agree with Marty.
And if Ms. O'Dowd offers up her legal opinion, I think we disagree with that legal opinion at some cost, potentially, to the city and to us personally.
So if our city attorney says, "I don't think you can do that" I think we ought to go with that opinion.
Having said that, though, I think that maybe a way to get around this is give the one year conditional, maybe make it wine only.
If beer is the issue, then maybe we try only wine.
And so we can't even do that.
So it's APS.
It doesn't matter.
We can't limit it further than that?
So the only thing we can do is make it conditional.
You have got one year and we'll see what happens.
And you can sell anything you want, but you are making a representation on the record that this is what you are going stick to.
And in a year you are going to come back.
And if that's not the case, then we'll make that decision at that point.
I will support the one year conditional.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was my motion.
I move to approve a one-year conditional.
>> Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
Mr. Dingfelder.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I respectfully disagree.
I think that what we have -- what we have heard over and over again, as nice as these young folks are, that this thing runs with the property.
You know, I think the neighborhood deserves some protection.
And I would prefer to hear back from legal with a written opinion in terms of them specifically saying, you know, here's the statute, and here's the case law that says why we can't do that.
And I don't know that we have heard that yet.
And Kate and I have talked about this in the past.
And I just think that -- I think the neighborhood deserves some additional protection.
And that's what I'm trying to propose.
Because these folks say we only sell high-end stuff.
Well, they can sell their store tomorrow after they get their wet zoning.
And the next place can sell -- you know, walk-in, walk-out quart bottles of beer.
And that bothers me a little bit.
I don't think it's going to happen.
I'm not saying that.
But it does bother me.
That's the legal proposition that bothers me.
So I think the neighborhood and the church have asked for additional protections.
That's what my original attempt to make a motion was trying to do, was create additional protection.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I guess where we are is there's a motion on the floor.
>>GWEN MILLER: For one-year conditional.
>>ROSE FERLITA: And we had the same conversation with Ms. O'Dowd in terms of what we would like to do and hours of operation, those type things.
Would you mind reiterating that just for my edification?
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: The state beverage law allows local jurisdictions to regulate the hours of operation for the business establishment, the location, and the sanitary regulations associated with that establishment.
So those are the conditions that we put in chapter 3 that could be imposed by council from granting a wet zoning petition.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you.
These are my comments as we go forward with the motion that's on the floor.
Some council members want to afford the most impacted civic association, which is Parkland, some alleviation or some relief.
The only way I see they get that is by appreciates what they are suggesting.
They are saying now they don't want it.
They said it six months ago.
We have a waiver we have to approve, a thousand feet from church, school, et cetera.
And it seems like the sentiment of this council is -- and I agree that the Minors have shown true ernest effort to be good business owners.
I see a preponderance of support for the same address, 2511 west Swann, and that's fine.
And I also hear from Mr. Minor that some of the physicians in the area are certainly supportive of this, and probably it's an easy place for them to get lunch for themselves and the staff.
But I don't think they have as long an investment or long-vested investment as Parkland Estates.
I think in their minds from conversations at meetings, not to talk about this petition, but just in general, that they had a sense the line of demarcation would be higher.
As this comes closer to their neighborhood, they are opposed to it.
And they are opposed to it, I think, for the right reasons, not for the wrong reasons.
They are certainly not against Mr. and Mrs. Minor making a living.
We small business owners can appreciate the hardships they are going through, just like I went through the same thing with large drug stores.
However, the issue is the fact no one has convinced me that there is ample reason to override the waiver that's requested for the thousand-foot distance.
In terms of some of the concerns about the church and wet zonings, et cetera, those are temporary.
And they are not in the business of selling wine on a day-to-day basis every single day of the year when they are open.
So I think that's an unfair comparison.
I think we have heard loud and clear from the neighborhood they didn't want it, they still don't want it, they are the ones that are the most impacted.
So regardless of all the wonderful references that we have received from the Minors, I still can't support it and I think that's the only way to give the neighborhood the relief as opposed to trying to have a different interpretation than Ms. O'Dowd has given us.
She's certainly, as far as I'm concerned, the expert in this area.
So I won't support this motion even on a condition.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor to approve with one-year conditional.
All in favor of that motion say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Nay.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nay.
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
We go to item 16.
Need to open item 16.
>> Move to open.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Ms. O'Dowd, can we ask for an attorney general opinion as to what our ability to influence, you know, what we are talking about here, do we have any ability to further restrict what these ABC, or whatever they say we can't do, can we --
>>> Certainly.
I can talk to David Smith about that and submit a written request to the attorney general's office.
>> Report back in two weeks?
>>> Sure.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Sure.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second that motion if that's in the form.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I do.
So moved.
I didn't do a very good job articulating.
My motion was simply to seek an attorney general opinion as to what our rights might be with respect to further limiting wet zoning petitions within the City of Tampa.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: My friendly amendment was just to suggest if they can get back with us in two weeks and show us the language they are going to use or something like that.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if that was part of the motion.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Yeah, that's fine.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. O'Dowd, the thing I would like to see the attorney general tell us that we have the ability to do is to possibly, in some creative way that perhaps you and the legal department can develop, to specify that rather than going with the land, that the liquor zoning privilege goes with the requester of it, the petitioner, the specific petitioner as evidence to land owner.
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: I can do research on that.
This goes back to the land use law and the principles of land use law.
So --
>> Perhaps as an additional request, in addition to the one that Mr. Harrison made.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask, you know, with respect to Ms. O'Dowd, give her substantial time.
>>GWEN MILLER: I was going to say, is two weeks substantial amount of time?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: That is a question of considerable weight and I think it's worthy --.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: As much time as you need.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
Whatever time she takes.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I thought he was asking him to come back in two weeks and see what we were going to ask the attorney general.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Exactly.
So what did we decide to do?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Also ask to research something else.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Cowell.
>>PETE COWELL: Thank you.
Next petition is WZ-05-27.
Petitioner is the Clarkson Company, 1301 East 7th Avenue.
Petitioner is requesting a 2(COP) for a new hotel as an incidental use to that hotel.
There are other wet zonings within 1,000 feet. The list is attached.
It's 524 feet to a residential unit in a YC-6 zoning district.
There are two institutional uses within the thousand feet.
Council would need to provide waivers for all three in order to grant the petition.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
I contacted the Ybor associations in the area and they all feel it's a welcome addition and long overdue. The department has no objections to the wet zoning.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, I have been sworn.
I'm here on behalf of the Clarkson Company.
The hotel is up and running.
And because of the timing of the various hearings and things like that, actually, the wet zoning is supposed to coincide with their opening.
But we are slightly delayed.
And we respectfully request your approval.
It does meet all the consistencies with the visioning plan of Ybor City and the long-range and short-range goals.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What is the name of the hotel?
Is it the one that --.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: This is the brand new hotel near the turn-around, near the garage.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Where the streetcar is?
>>> The trolley barn.
>>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone want to speak on number 16?
>> Move to close.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before you close.
So this is beer and wine on premises not associated with the restaurant?
>>STEVE MICHELINI: They don't have a full-scale restaurant.
They have a lounge area in there.
It's basically caters to it's hotel patrons.
>> Move to close.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Cowell, did you want to say something?
Okay.
Mrs. Saul-Sena.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought that council had said -- and maybe it was just part of the conversation where we are acting as the CRA entity -- that we were going to discourage free-standing liquor zonings in Ybor that weren't in concert with restaurants.
Because we did this survey, and we had like 100 cops and only several that were in concert with restaurants.
Maybe we want to vary this policy vis-a-vis hotels.
But I think it's something that council members need to consider.
Do you remember the conversation?
I remember we were very serious.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was just going to ask the same question.
And I didn't know how this fit in in terms of that conversation.
We said we had too many bars on 7th Avenue.
And then we have this on 7th Avenue.
>> And the zoning they are requesting is that of a bar.
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: Legal department.
Council directed my office to do some research on a moratorium for Ybor City and we are working on that.
But until then, each and every application must be considered by council based on the criterion in the code.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Waivers requested --
>>> Definitely.
>> How many establishments?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I have a question for the petitioner.
And that would be, would you consider our changing this request to be a 2(COP-R), because you are going to be selling food there.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: We can't do it.
It not possible to do it.
Under a hotel, you have to have a straight zoning district of some kind.
There's not a full service restaurant that's operating full time.
There is a restaurant-lounge area that's operating for the hotel patrons.
Now, we have taken this to YCDC, and I have reviewed this in detail with them and the other Ybor organizations.
They are strongly in favor of this.
And it meets the vision.
I started to tell you, it meets all of the visioning guidelines that they are going through for Ybor City.
It would be very difficult if you penalized a hotel and made the patrons leave the hotel and go to a bar if they wanted room service for beer and wine.
This is not alcohol.
This is beer and wine only.
I mean, if you want the hotels to survive and you don't want them to be leaving --.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison?
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Originally, just so you know, we originally petitioned for 2(COP-R), and in the review process with staff, it was determined that a 2(COP-R) would not allow them to actually sell the alcohol on the premises.
So, anyway, these people made a tremendous investment in Ybor City.
And we have had no objections from anyone, including the Ybor chamber, and the development commission, everyone else.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm hearing what we are saying, and this is not the amphitheater part 2 or anything like that.
This is a hotel and they are going to sell beer and wine in their hotel bar.
I doubt that you will have club goers coming down 7th Avenue and coming into the hotel bar.
It's probably just going to be for the folks that are going to be there.
So I think this is so different from the moratorium that we are looking at that I'm okay with it.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Our principal use here is the hotel.
It's not as a bar or lounge or anything like that.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I certainly think the idea of having wet zoning in the hotel is crucial.
I mean, people get to a hotel beings and they have been travel.
What do they want to do?
They want top go downstairs and have a cocktail.
They don't want to go down the street.
I think this is something that's certainly important.
And if we want people like the caliber of this developer that's putting in this much money not to throw up his hands in terms of a bar and that sort of thing.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: We were just talking about the X versus the cop, the straight 2(COP).
And what I'm concerned about is constraining the hotel and holding them to a different standard than other folks that are in the area, plus the fact that they are selling gift baskets, souvenir items.
>>> Selling gift baskets to go.
>> For people to take them with them when they leave Tampa. This is designed for visitors to Tampa, shows them a unique view of Tampa.
Essentially I guess would like to have the opportunity to have the flexibility.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: If Ms. O'Dowd would step up.
I want clarification for council's purposes.
The question was changing the zoning, and what's allowed, what's permissible.
Just irrespective of the arguments, what is permitted for council's discretion and graphic?
Full cop, which is what?
>>> Couples on premises, while as -- as well as for sale in sealed containers off premises.
The (COP-X) would restrict consumption time.
That was a question I asked Mr. Michelini works that satisfy the clients' concerns and allow the entire hotel to be wet zoned for on-premises couples.
And that would allow patrons to take drinks from the bar up to their rooms.
It wouldn't restrict that sort of activity.
But I can't speak for the hotel.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I guess the difference would be in terms of what the argument of a petitioner is versus what the legal alternatives are.
I just want to be clear.
>>> I'm not aware that legally a hotel would have to have a COP wet zoning restriction.
I don't know where that statement came from.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions from council members?
>> November close.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Harrison is persuasive.
I guess this is an unusual exception.
But in the future I'm not going to be thrilled about more wet zonings up and down 7th.
>> Second.
>> Move an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 17% by weight, 2(COP), for consumption on premises in sealed containers for couples off premises in that certain block, tract of land, 1301 east 7th Avenue, Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain findings, imposing certain conditions based upon the location of the property, providing an effective date.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm going to support to -- vote to support this motion.
But I think when we come back with the request for a moratorium, we should perhaps consider some type of special consideration that there ought to be future hotels in Ybor because I do think hotels are kind of a special case.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
All in favor of the motion say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>> Move to open number 17.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
The next petition is WZ-05-28, HCB holdings, 2202 West Platt street, in a CG zoning district for a 30-seat restaurant.
There are other wet zonings within a thousand foot radius as shown in your staff report.
There is residential within a 1,000 foot radius, 219 feet to an RM-16 zoning district.
There are no institutional uses.
Council won need to make the residential districts and to distances of a thousand feet in order to grant the petition.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
I have a question for you, Mr. Cowell.
You go out to visit these places.
Could you start taking a photograph of the front of the place so we could have that as part of your packets?
>>> Certainly.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is this one?
If you point to it.
Po Boy's is on the corner.
Chili's across the street.
This one is just north of it.

>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department.
I went out, interviewed the neighbors immediately adjacent to this location.
They had no objections to it.
They were looking forward to the pizza place moving into that location.
The department has no objections.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of HCB buildings. This previously had a 2(COP) designation which dried up and the ownership was changing from various different things.
And the owners came back in asking for 2(COP-R).
Beer and wine, restaurant, 5149% restriction.
>> Is there anyone in the audience going to speak on item number 17?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Michelini, as I patronize other restaurants that have been in that location, it seems to have a notorious bad parking.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: It not the best design of parking but it's a narrow site.
The best they can do.
It's a pretty small restaurant.
>> How many seats?
>>> I think they are approved at 30.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to close the public hearing.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Move an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight but not more than 14% by beer and wines, 2(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in connection with a restaurant business establishment on that certain lot, plot ar tract of land, Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
>> Motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Number 18.
>> Move to open.
>> Second.
>>PETE COWELL: Land Development Coordination.
Petition WZ-05-29.
Byblos Cafe, requesting a 4(COP-R) after a one-year conditional in a CI zoning district.
They were granted a petition originally.
In January of '04 they were granted conditional permission to expand the space and to 140-seat restaurant.
The questions of parking commercial site plan review were raised last year.
Petitioner has not done either one of those to date.
There are other wet zonings within 1,000 feet.
Those are shown on your staff report.
There are residential uses within the 1,000 feet.
Those are shown on your staff report.
There are no institutional uses.
Council would need to still provide waivers to the distances for residential and to other places.
>> You said there were a couple of other things they have not provided?
>> If you look at the site plan presented by the petitioner as well as the overhead, the area highlighted in the dark line here, the area that they are proposing now includes the old antique store that used to be at the front of the property almost immediately across from the good will.
They have purchased as part of a concession with TECO this triangle that would not apply for building permits for the additional space that was the antique store.
And they have not provided for any additional parking.
And there is no parking on-site.
It functions according accordingly.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should we just continue this?
>> They can't continue because their one-year conditional expires in a few days.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe they'll have an explanation.
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: I know this issue came up last year when council granted the one-year conditional.
However, commercial site plan review approval is a separate process within the city, and is not included in the criteria in chapter 3 for denial of a wet zoning petition.
So I understand Mr. Cowell's concerns.
Not taking away from his concerns.
However, we can't use this approval and denial process to address that.
>>ROSE FERLITA: What are our options here?
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: The petition before you is whether or not to allow the conditional wet zoning to be permanently granted.
With regard to commercial site plan review, I would have to defer to Land Development Coordination as to how they wish to address that.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Was it 4(COP-R) before?
Or is it 2(COP-R)?
The initial petition was a 2(COP-R).
Last year they went to a 4(COP) railroad and you granted them a one-year conditional to that.
>>ROSE FERLITA: So Ms. O'Dowd, again, what is it we have the option to do here or the decision to make?
Separating those two issues.
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: The code, when council grants a one-year conditional, the petitioner is required to come back to full council within the year, and to request that that wet zoning be permanently granted.
So that's the issue before council today, should the 4(COP-R) that was approved a year ago, should that be granted permanently for this parcel of property?
Or should we go back to a dry status. And council, in looking at that issue, should consider the impact that waiving the distance requirements had on the neighborhood and is there an adverse impact, or is granting this wet zoning on a permanent basis, is that compatible with the general vicinity of the neighborhood?
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: If council determines from the public hearing that there would be an adverse impact on the neighborhood by the granting of those waivers then the denial of the petition would be appropriate.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Is continuance of the wet zoning an option at this time?
>>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: Council is required to act within the year of the previously approved conditional.
And I don't have the date in front of me as to when it was approved.
But I know we came very close to that at that time.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Officer Guffey, you might have said this before and I apologize.
>>GWEN MILLER: He hasn't spoken yet.
>> I'll give you the opportunity.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Tampa Police Department. The one-year conditional was requested by council last year.
As part of that, the petitioner made sure all the employees had responsible vendor training to make sure that they understood the rules and procedures governing alcohol.
They have done that and they certainly met that to the department's satisfaction.
We have no opposition to the wet zoning.
Yes, sir.
Did you have anything else?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
I was going to remind counsel that was the biggest issue last year.
There were some allegations -- more than allegations.
>>SCOTT GUFFEY: Before last year.
They then came back and was granted with a one-year conditional after making sure that his weight staff and people were instructed with responsible vendor training, which they did.
>> So, anyway, that's fine.
Thanks.
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
>> Stefan, I have been sworn in.
I guess last year you told us to go ahead and see how it goes for this year.
We have some things we had to work out.
That's the reason we went ahead and brought this back.
I guess something.
It was never an issue, I think, as Mr. Dingfelder mentioned.
But training for the employees to exactly what to do with the issue with alcohol and everything, which we did that.
And we kept doing that on constant basis.
>>> As they were saying, we actually impact the area.
We did what they asked us to do.
And we don't see anybody or any complaints that came to us that really impacted.
Parking has never been an issue.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just have to say that I happened to go to this restaurant, because it has really good food.
And there isn't a parking issue, but the communication seems to be an issue.
The parking is mostly de facto along the public right-of-way next to the railroad tracks.
But the city, in its calculations, doesn't recognize that because it's de facto rather than officially striped.
But there's always been more than adequate parking for the patrons.
And I think that the impasse here is because they can't provide a parking survey that shows this, because it isn't officially striped, but it works.
So I think that's where the point is.
And I think the reason ware back here after one-year conditional is to see whether this 4(COP) would negatively impact the neighborhood, and it hasn't.
But I understand that the neighborhood is concerned about the fact that there hasn't been an officially submitted parking plan.
And I understand from our attorney that the two things are to be considered separately.
>>> If I might add to this one.
We were going to go through where we have the money to add next door, didn't have the money to go Do that but when we do that we will submit all the plans and everything.
>> It took us a little bit also to purchase the property.
We didn't actually purchase it.
We were leasing it and worked with our landlord and convince him it's important that we purchase the property and we are actually now paying additional rent for that property.
But the thing is once we get done.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, in terms of the parking, I understand Mrs. Saul-Sena's explanation.
But it looks like the Palma Ceia neighborhood association is concerned that there wasn't an ample parking plan to support that the main use is not a disadvantage for the neighborhood.
And my question in addition to that is, you're saying you're buying that or renting that.
And then eventually you will sell liquor in there, or you will open it up?
>>> Next door?
Yes.
>> And how long are you going to wait to do that?
>>> You know, as soon as we get the Galant here in the next few months, we will go to permit and whatever is required.
>> So not a whole long time.
>>> No.
>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on item number 19?
>> Move to close.
>> Second.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll read this ordinance.
I'm going to support this.
And I'll tell you why.
Even if you don't want to know.
It's a late hour.
But very briefly, the neighborhood has expressed some concerns about parking.
But the bottom line on this, I live four blocks away.
Bottom line is there's been a restaurant in most of this building for a long, long time, even before this restaurant.
There has never been any real parking, and there never will be any real parking because it's just one consolidated mishmash of buildings.
And so if we deny it on the basis that they ever put a parking plan together then they might as well close the doors completely because we'll never have parking.
It's just not part of the scene along that area.
There's other restaurants that have operated successfully along there with very limited parking.
Everybody recognizes that.
They have proven themselves in the last year to be good neighbors, and to be good citizens, and in regard to the sale of alcohol.
And I'm okay with it.
And I move an ordinance repealing ordinance number 2004-44 ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic, beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in connection with a restaurant business establishment on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2832 South MacDill Avenue Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section 3 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances, providing an effective date.
I believe the testimony has met satisfactory the waivers that have been requested.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Nay.
I understand what Mr. Dingfelder is saying and I'm familiar with the area as well.
But with the expansion we have to go from a no-plan to a worse no-plan so I don't support it.
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
Under unfinished business we need a motion to continue to February 10.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Item B.
>> Move the resolution.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>> Item D we need to receive and file.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: Unfinished business, we have Mr. Michelini to come up.
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you, council.
We misnoticed on a rezoning petition.
It's a Euclidean zoning.
You changed the land use to allow to go from industrial to residential a few months ago.
And we simply because of the holidays and illnesses, missed the notice.
We respectfully are requesting it be reset for February 24th at 6 p.m.
I've discussed it with the staff.
They have no objection with that.
And we paid the fee.
>>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure?
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much.
>>GWEN MILLER: We go back to item number 3.
Need a motion to continue to January 27.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a 10:30 workshop.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I make a motion to continue that for a week.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second that.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
Question on the motion?
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Under unfinished business.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would just like --.
>>GWEN MILLER: Are you asking a question on the motion?
We haven't carried the motion yet.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to make a request that the city clerk's office go back in time to when we first instituted this rule, and provide to the council members who weren't here -- because I was here -- a transcript of the council conversation that led us to this rule of putting the public conversation at the end of the meeting.
Because I remember it very clearly.
It was not an easily gotten to decision, and I think it would help inform our conversation when we get to it to have -- even though you all have to go back-back to find it, I'm sure, I'm confident.
>> Motion and second.
All in favor say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
(Motion carried)
Saul-Sena.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the end of the meeting is fine.
The issues we raised were television.
>> But we discussed that too.
I just want to share that with you.
>>GWEN MILLER: We go to information by council members.
Mr. White?
>>KEVIN WHITE: I think I have disseminated enough information today.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you.
Judy Lisi is the president of the Tampa Performing Arts Center asked that we grant her five minutes before City Council to talk about a couple of issues that she feels are of concern to council.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
(Motion carried)
>>ROSE FERLITA: Can we do it 10:30, Madam Chairman, something like that?
Is that okay?
10:00 or 10:30?
>>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to do it earlier?
>>ROSE FERLITA: Sure.
>>GWEN MILLER: 9:30?
>>ROSE FERLITA: 9:30 is fine.
That's all.
Thank you.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I would like a resolution prepared appointing -- I don't think we have to do a resolution. This is to appoint Helen harm on to the cable advisory committee.
Whatever we need to do.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
(Motion carried)
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two quick thing.
Applications are due today for applicants that want to be on the Planning Commission, I believe next Thursday.
We hear them, speak and vote.
>>GWEN MILLER: How many applications do we have?
>>THE CLERK: The last I heard, we have four.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was going to comment on that issue.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, we can comment on that.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I talked to Ortega yesterday, and he said -- I was hoping we might be able to extend that maybe an extra week.
So that way if he writes about it, we might get more applications.
I don't even know who the applicants are now.
But we might get more applications.
So if we extend it -- just a thought.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: There's been some confusion on this.
I got a call at 10:30 on a Wednesday night, last week or the week before, from someone who said he was at a T.H.A.N. meeting that night, and there was an announcement made that the period to apply ended that next Thursday.
And I said, that's knot impossible.
But that was officially announced at the T.H.A.N. meeting.
So there is some confusion about when the deadline exists for this.
So I think in all due fairness, we probably should consider extending that.
>>THE CLERK: Council's motion I think was January 6th for the deadline of applications to be on January 20th at five in our office.
And interviews January 27th at 10:30.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we consider setting it back a week?
>>ROSE FERLITA: My only concern was they need add replacement, they felt, as soon as possible.
So maybe till Monday.
Then somebody has till Monday to do it.
And then we can still do it.
Only because I think with all the plan amendments, we really need to let them know.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent idea.
>>ROSE FERLITA: So moved.
And still consider who we would appoint.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to extend applications for persons top apply for Planning Commission till Monday, January the 24th, at 5 p.m.
This is the last time.
Monday, January 24th, at 5 p.m. in the clerk's office.
All in favor of that motion say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Secondly, I want to thank Mr. White for suggesting that we break for lunch.
Personally, my decision making this afternoon was much improved by that.
And since it did actually go several hours past, that was sincere.
Thank you.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Let me add to that.
I want to also thank him because my store has been officially closed for 1:45 thanks to Mr. White.
>>GWEN MILLER: Why don't you just make him go home?
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'm leaving.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Commenting to Mr. Shelby, basically outside before we did that along with Mrs. Saul-Sena's guidelines, we have been saying this for the past four weeks or so.
And his plan to make the rule change for council's rules.
I think we ought to make it standard practice that's on the agenda that council will break from 12:00 to 1:00 for lunch.
And just like today, there was a luncheon, the mayor was having a luncheon from 12:00 to 1.
Seems like the standard luncheons are from 12 to one.
Not just hours but events that are happening like the chamber lunches.
And that will accommodate that as well.
And that way, the listening audience will know, if it's coming up on 11:30 are and they are number 20 on the agenda and they know they have some time they can go and come back as well.
And I think Marty was going to be parking on that, and that was what I discussed with him.
And I have thought 12 to 1 would probably coincide with the greater majority of the luncheons and things that have planned than 12:30 to 1:30.
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Councilman White also shared with me his impression that if it looked like the meeting could be left to shortly after that schedule the council could move to waive rules to continue to the end of the meeting.
So council has that flexibility.
But the default would be that people would be on notice, that council is scheduling lunch.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Absolutely.
Rather than feeling it would inconvenience the public by saying they have been here for hours.
As long as everyone is duly noticed, there's no surprise to anyone, to us or the public.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
I'm sorry.
One more thing.
I know you all have seen in the press that there's been some discussion about the Sports Authority.
I would like to have City Council consider supporting the continuation of the Tampa Sports Authority.
And I wonder would you like to do it this week?
Would you like to think about it and do it next week?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I would prefer to do, because -- hear a report from the administration and/or the Sports Authority, on the issue.
I don't know why we should keep the Sports Authority.
And maybe there's a lot of good reasons why we should.
But I think somebody -- I need somebody to come brief us on the pros and cons of it.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, based on that suggestion, Madam Chairman, since --.
>>GWEN MILLER: The city does own one-third of the Sports Authority and the county two-thirds.
So they do have a say.
The city does have something to say they do not control.
They have to come before the city and get approval.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I'm saying.
If you want to discuss it at all, maybe we should have some reports from the Sports Authority and administration on recommendations as to whether or not the Sports Authority should continue or not.
>>KEVIN WHITE: I'll support the investigatory.
But I am going to say right now I don't -- at this moment I'm in support of it and I would like to find out whatever.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since our chairman serves as representative on the Sports Authority, if you could organize some kind of presentation in the next several meetings.
>>GWEN MILLER: I'll get with the administration.
Thank you.
Mr. Dingfelder, do you have anything else?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Don't have anything.
>>GWEN MILLER: Clerk.
>>THE CLERK: I have a couple of items.
Last week you had an issue regarding CSX railroad and there was not a representative present.
This morning we presented council with a copy of an e-mail from Jacksonville regarding what they had done regarding that.
>> We have to receive and file.
>> Second.
(Motion carried)
>>THE CLERK: The other issue, I believe council member Alvarez was going to cancel the CRA meeting.
>> So moved.
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
Your motion?
And second.
(Motion carried)
>>THE CLERK: That's all I have.
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, do you have anything?
>>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
>>GWEN MILLER: At this time we will go to our audience portion.
(Off camera.)
(Meeting adjourned.)

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