📝 City Council Meeting Transcript

TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
AUGUST 21, 2008
9:00 A.M.

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>>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
order.
:27 The chair will yield to Gwyneth Miller.
:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:27 It's my pleasure to introduce one of my students.
:03 I was very young then.
:28 But I'm very happy to introduce Ms. Betty Greene
:24 Johnson who is no stranger to us on the Council because
:06 she's very active and been before us many times to give
:06 the invocation.
:03 Betty is the building supervisor in our utility
:06 accounting division and she has been with us for 35
:25 years.
:15 Betty is also the president of the City of Tampa Black
:24 History Committee, Incorporated, and she loves helping

:00 out wherever and whenever she is asked.
:03 If you're ever lucky enough to be around her for any
:18 length of time, you will hear her singing.
:07 Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Betty Greene.
:27 Would you please stand and remain standing for the
:15 Pledge of Allegiance.
:09 >> Good morning.
:04 Let us bow.
:18 O holy one, we ask now that you come into this meeting,
:22 the City of Tampa City Council meeting, direct each
:12 member present, direct each office present, direct the
:28 citizens that speak before council.
:09 Thank you for last night's rest was not in vain.
:09 Thank you, o God, that you have been good to us and
:03 been gracious in not letting hurricane Fay come this
:24 way and damage a whole lot of things in our town.
:03 Bless those that suffered loss.
:12 Thank you for all of your many blessings.
:15 Direct City Council, direct our Mayor, the chief of
:12 these United States, the president and all those
:06 persons that are working one way or the other for
:24 citizens all over the United States.
:24 These things we ask, amen.
:13 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.
:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
:09 >> Dingfelder?
:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
:06 >> Mulhern?
:22 Scott?
:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
:10 Council, let me just mention also that detective don
:21 Miller's daughter was in a serious accident.
:06 I think it was in Virginia -- South Carolina, and, of
:12 course, he did come back today to be here with Council.
:07 And I just want everybody to be aware of that, and that
:04 we keep his daughter and family in prayer.
:03 Thank you.
:15 Okay.
:25 We will now review the agenda.
:06 >> Good morning.
:06 Before you you have the addendum to the agenda.
:24 There is one item under new business that didn't make
:21 it to the addendum.
:00 You have before you a resolution offered for your
:24 consideration by Chairman Scott.
:03 You have a copy of that in front of you, if you have

:13 the opportunity to review that at some point during the
:01 day, perhaps it would be appropriate for Council to
:01 take that up under new business if it so pleases.
:15 With regard to next Thursday's evening meeting, because
:09 of a lack of a quorum, the 6 p.m. meeting on next
:25 Thursday night will need to be cancelled and a notice
:06 will be placed on the city's Web site on CTTV, in the
:21 Council lobby down stairs in City Hall, on Council
:06 doors and at least one newspaper.
:28 With Council's indulgence, I would like to read that
:28 now so people will be on notice that next Thursday
:21 night's meeting is cancelled.
:16 Please take notice that due to lack of a quorum, the
:22 evening meeting of the Tampa City Council at 6 p.m. on
:07 Thursday, August 28th, 2008, is cancelled.
:12 The following public hearings are rescheduled and shall
:09 be heard at Old City Hall, 315 East Kennedy Boulevard,
:15 third floor, at 6 p.m. on Thursday, September 11th,
:27 2008.
:18 File number Z 08-47 public hearing on petition of Bill
:16 Johnston, requesting to rezone property at 2024 East
:00 62nd Street from RS-50 to IG.
:01 File number Z 08-48, public hearing on petition of
:27 Mr. George Peterson, requesting to rezone property at
:21 6824 South Manhattan Avenue from IG to RM-18.

:27 File number Z 08-50, public hearing on petition of
:15 St. Joseph's Hospital, Incorporated, requesting to
:28 rezone property at 3030 West Doctor Martin Luther King
:06 Jr. Boulevard and 4220 North Gomez Avenue from PD to
:25 PD.
:18 File number Z 08-52, public hearing on petition of
:00 towel partners LLC requesting to rezone property at 201
:09 to 217 South Dale Mabry highway from CG to PD.
:24 File number Z 08-32, continued public hearing from
:10 July 17th, 2008, on petition of S and R Perry
:18 Properties LLC requesting to rezone property at 2616
:21 MacDill Avenue and 3008 West Barcelona Street from
:28 CI to PD.
:24 File number V 08-64, public hearing on petition of Dats
:04 Restaurant Group LLC requesting an SU-2, sale of
:24 alcoholic beverages, 2(COP) at 2616 south MacDill
:16 Avenue.
:00 File number Z 08-46, continued public hearing from
:15 July 31st, 2008, on petition of Francisco Arturo
:09 Cascio requesting to rezone property at 4215 North
:21 15th Street from RS-50 to PD.
:12 File number WZ 08-14, continued public hearing from
:13 July 31st, 2008, on petition of Francesco Arturo
:03 Cascio requesting the sale of alcoholic beverage,
:09 2(APS) at 4215 North 15th Street.

:21 And as regards to file number Z 08-31, the public
:13 hearing on petition of Mark Bentley Esquire AICP
:15 requesting to rezone property at 7210 Interbay
:09 Boulevard from IG to CG due to misnotice, the public
:04 hearing will be rescheduled to a later date and time by
:27 Land Development Coordination.
:04 Council, to inform you, the public will be notified.
:24 Additionally, it's my understanding each of the
:06 petitioners will be notified individually and that the
:07 Neighborhood Associations will be notified through the
:04 office of neighborhood relations.
:09 And finally, that a copy of this notice is being
:21 presented to the president of than.
:12 With that being said, just a reminder there will be no
:07 public meeting next Thursday night at 6 p.m.
:01 Of course, the morning workshop will continue as
:28 scheduled.
:13 Next, Council, you have a memo from David Vaughn
:21 requesting that items 19 and 20, which are relating to
:06 the utility capital improvements project be removed
:01 from this week's agenda.
:00 Also, you are reminded that at 11 a.m. today, Council
:18 will be in recess in order to take up the agenda as the
:04 Community Redevelopment Agency.
:22 Because of that, items 42 through 45 are to be adopted

:06 after the conclusion of the CRA meeting.
:18 Also, Council, a reminder that at 10:30, Council will
:09 stop what it is doing in order to take up staff reports
:19 and unfinished business as per Council's rules.
:24 Item 84, you received a certificate of accuracy of
:03 assessment roll, affidavit of mailing notice from the
:21 Downtown Partnership, and with regard to item 93, you
:25 have received a memo from Cynthia Miller regarding that
:22 item.
:07 Items 34, 64, and 65 are requested by Council member
:00 Mulhern to be removed from committee reports and
:21 consent agenda for discussion during staff reports and
:04 unfinished business.
:12 Below that are the items set for time certain.

:03 Council, I'm not aware of any other changes to the
:22 agenda.
:07 And I present it for your approval.
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items need to be pulled?
:04 Okay.
:15 Motion to the changes to the agenda.
:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So move.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
:10 Is there a second?
:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.

:12 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
:24 Opposed?
:12 Okay.
:18 At this time, we will take up public comment.
:16 Those who wish to address Council may come and line up
:27 and state your name and address.
:10 You have three minutes to talk with Council about items
:28 on the agenda.
:16 Preference is given to the items on the agenda and then
:06 subsequent to any items not on the agenda.
:24 >> I'd like to talk about the dredging project on
:27 Westshore.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name and address.
:22 >> Paul nester, 2631 north Dundee street.
:06 On the Dundee canal, there are three houses from
:12 Westshore.
:04 I'm included in one of them, and there's a fourth
:27 vacant lot that received notices that they are going to
:24 be charged for dredging.
:10 On south Dundee, there may be three or four.
:24 I couldn't find out how many are listed that are going
:12 to receive -- that have received notices for payment
:24 for dredging, possibility of.
:15 This is all possible.
:00 I have some aerial photos -- and you can see in these

:24 photographs that the sediment that's coming through
:16 onto Westshore has built up in the pond on the Dundee
:00 canal, and it has drifted forward to include these
:00 three or four houses that are next to it.
:00 The people that live beyond that are not going to be
:00 involved in the dredging.
:15 I want to know how much sediment and muck that the city
:28 plans to remove from the Dundee pond on Westshore, and
:03 are they going to make a 20-foot-wide swath up to where
:15 it come under Westshore, or are they going to clean the
:06 whole thing out?
:03 If you look at those photographs, you can see the
:21 buildups is all right from Westshore up to about three
:13 or four houses.
:28 I want to know who is going to have to pay for it.
:13 On north Dundee, we have, as I told you, three or four
:06 homeowners.
:27 There's one vacant lot that have received notices that
:01 they'll be assessed for the cleaning of the canal,
:07 20 feet wide.
:21 And this sediment buildup is from about 6,000 acres all
:00 the way over to Dale Mabry from the storm sewer system.
:15 Why should three or four homeowners on north Dundee and
:00 possibly the same number on south Dundee be responsible
:25 for this cleanup.

:03 I've lived there 40 years, and to my knowledge, it's
:09 never been cleaned.
:27 And when I originally went there, you could take a boat
:13 all the way up into that area.
:06 And we've just seen a gradual buildup over all these
:03 years, and I think it's unfair to four to six to eight
:13 homeowners to be responsible for that.
:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:24 Thank you.
:09 Next speaker.
:03 >> Montague, 4702 Browning Avenue.
:09 I'm here for the same reason.
:12 I want to talk about that.
:16 I really wanted to hear.
:12 I heard the city was to present their presentation of
:19 what they have changed and what they are doing about
:00 the canal issue now and the $1.3 million that was
:00 gotten for the estuaries and not being planned to spend
:21 on it.
:13 I'm aghast and some of you know also what happened at
:06 Lake Kipling when they went in to put the scepters in,
:09 it had nothing to do with the cleaning of the lake.
:13 They simply removed enough silt around the scepter
:00 pipes to allow more silt to come in.
:27 But they did not clean up the springs in the center.

:07 As all of you know, the fish died, and it was a
:04 horrible mess.
:27 Talking about the connector that connects on to Kipling
:00 by way of a creek.
:07 That creek needs to be cleaned up, and Dundee needs to
:24 be cleaned out.
:06 What he's telling you, Dundee receives more even than
:24 Kipling and yet they are wanting to charge him and two
:18 others right there at the beginning of the river where
:13 all the silt comes from Dundee lake.
:00 That's not fair the city dumps on us.
:25 They need to clean it up.
:03 They got the grant and it was awarded for cleanup for
:27 those estuaries, and they are not being used.
:12 And I think that's terribly unfair.
:21 I would like to hear more about what they have changed
:09 and what they are presenting because they are always
:21 changing something.
:15 The whole point is I believe EPA would not release that
:04 1.3 million to the city because they were not using it
:00 for environmental issues.
:10 They were using it to entice the canal owners who want
:00 to get their boats out to tax them for the rest of
:01 their lives for an amount they don't know what it will
:19 be and where does the maintenance come from?

:12 The people will have to pay that.
:04 That's unfair, totally unfair.
:27 I would like to speak after they do their presentation.
:15 But what Dr. Nester is telling you is something
:09 terribly unfair, that they are charging him to clean up
:06 the mess that's floated down from Dundee where it's put
:04 in.
:19 And he lives at the beginning of that river.
:12 That river is supposed to be cleaned up along with
:22 Dundee and along with that creek and along with Kipling
:18 and the other estuaries that were named.
:09 But the city is playing games to try to entice the
:18 people to tax themselves for the rest of their lives.
:15 I hope you all understand that issue.
:21 And I'm sorry to take up your time.
:21 Thank you.
:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
:06 >> My name is clay Mackleberry, 433 Columbia Drive.
:18 I'm here to talk to you today about the 2(COP) licenses
:24 and the $500 fines that hundreds of restaurants
:00 receive --
:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, I don't think you can talk about
:24 that at this point.
:03 >> Are you talking in general or with regard to a
:21 specific situation?

:27 >> I received a $500 fine, and I'd like to speak about
:04 that $500 fine, if I could.
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's not a petition before us.
:09 >> I don't believe that would be something coming
:09 before City Council ultimately.
:06 I don't recall.
:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was going to bring something up
:00 under new business, but if you want to wait till new
:21 business, I'm fine with it.
:13 I was going to discuss the process that we incurred.
:04 This has been on the record for a long time.
:12 I'm not proposing changing that.
:06 I'm proposing that I am somewhat amused, not amused in
:18 a way of fondness, but when you have 43% of something
:06 being late, and that's what happened here, out of the
:00 200 and something, I believe that 120 of them were
:03 late.
:13 And that number has just gone out of the roof.
:18 We use to have maybe five percent, eight percent, now
:04 it's 43 percent.
:27 There's something wrong in communication between the
:24 city and the good people who have the small businesses
:03 and restaurants.
:09 That's what I was going to discuss under new business.
:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it would be appropriate for

:22 him to speak.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda will bring it up
:06 under new business.
:27 >> I'll be as brief as I can.
:19 I'm representing the other restaurants on Davis
:10 Islands.
:03 Four of us were fined.
:18 Some of them couldn't be here today because they are
:07 flipping pancakes at the moment.
:03 But we feel this fine is a $500 fine now which is new
:10 within the past six months.
:06 And we think it's very stiff.
:07 I'll give you one example and then I'll stop speaking.
:09 The restaurant right across the street from me is
:21 called Grecian Island Restaurant.
:15 They only serve breakfast and lunch.
:00 It's a mom-and-pop restaurant.
:19 They both work there seven days a work, both lunch and
:25 dinner and they have a 2(COP) liquor license.
:25 And the only beer they ever sell is sometimes some
:21 night employees come from Tampa general, they'll show
:06 up in the morning and have a couple of beers.
:12 He probably doesn't sell gross $500 worth of beer in
:24 six months.
:16 And he has to pay a $500 fine because he didn't swear

:15 that he sells more liquor than he sells food.
:15 We feel the fine is extremely high.
:10 There's never been a fine in the past.
:27 In the past, we would get a letter, a notification and
:22 if we were late, a nice woman from the city would call
:07 us and say, hey, your form is late, can you please mail
:06 it in?
:24 Okay, no problem.
:27 It's a form we fill out, says we sell 13% alcohol and
:22 87% food.
:10 But I think the fine is extremely high.
:28 We are small businesses.
:18 We don't have, you know, a regulatory compliance
:22 department.
:07 We don't have a bookkeeping department.
:27 We keep our own books.
:06 It's an extremely high fine in this time and economy.
:09 Thank you very much for listening to me, and I
:04 appreciate it.
:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, we'll take that up under new
:28 business under Councilman Miranda.
:27 He'll bring that forward at that time.
:12 Mr. Knotts.
:00 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
:27 My name is Moses Knotts, Junior.

:21 I reside at 2902 East Ellicott Street three nights a
:15 week.
:03 I thank God for his grace and his mercy.
:07 A lot of people -- I tell you all every year, Florida
:06 is way overdue.
:04 Everything going on in Florida.
:09 -- all of this stuff, stones and everything, all this
:12 comes up under sin.
:25 In the 24 chapter of Matthew, told everybody about it.
:22 There will be stones and dire places.
:13 Many men coming claiming they are God.
:27 Nation against nation, mother against father,
:10 everything will happen.
:21 Another thing I spotted in the paper and I got here
:27 late, another thing got something to do with sin, too.
:27 Housing for aids patients.
:21 If you all took half of the housing and gave it to aids
:15 patients, still wouldn't be enough.
:09 I looked at black in America and it was sad how many
:06 people got the aids.
:09 In the Bible they call it -- over there in my part of
:12 town, I bet there's 20 people for every house.
:12 People say we're one paycheck from being out the door.
:12 Now it's one day from being outdoors.
:13 It's sad over there how many people getting put

:24 outdoors sleeping in cars.
:19 Just the other day I was down to McDonald's.
:15 I seen a young lady and two children sleeping in the
:09 back of their car.
:09 Just sad out there right now.
:27 This housing thing right now, it's tough how many
:01 people outdoors right now.
:21 Every time freezing cold came up, I sit in the house
:21 and look and just prayed.
:13 I said, Lord, how in the world these people make it
:13 outdoors.
:03 Another thing, I represent poor people, and I tell them
:03 for years I've been coming to the podium.
:13 The only thing poor people got going for them is pray
:15 and vote.
:09 And I tell them now, vote for the politician that has
:18 the best track record.
:01 Don't go for the good old boy or good old girl.
:01 I tell you right now, it is sad out there.
:27 I'll tell you, this whole thing has got something to do
:24 with sin.
:19 I'll close by saying I voted two times and my vote
:12 didn't count.
:03 I tell everybody to vote.
:18 I voted two times and people had the most votes and I

:00 lost.
:15 Thank you.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
:27 >> Good morning, City Council.
:04 My name is Janelle Anson.
:06 I live at 101 South 12th Street.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name one more
:24 time?
:12 >> Janelle Anson.
:22 Speaking in general right now because it is later.
:27 But this is about just general reporting for projects.
:04 What is being handed out now.
:25 But my general discussion right now, is the fact you
:19 passed a special assessment years ago for the historic
:09 streetcar at which point when the tax assessor takes
:12 from us incorrectly for the streetcar, when you ask for
:25 the refund, they say it takes several months.
:21 At that point when you then ask again because you
:07 haven't received it and they say call us back, they say
:21 in the detail, the name is Michael English.
:28 He needs to talk to us.
:21 There's no other response.
:07 They said who signed the paperwork was honorable Gwen
:00 Miller.
:10 I have spoken with her.

:03 Since that conversation, staff has been cut many
:18 places.
:06 There is no answer.
:06 The tax department says get the press involved.
:27 This isn't a press issue.
:12 This is proper communication and due process.
:06 Unfortunately, what was passed, I'm owed just shy of
:22 $100, supposedly.
:22 I'd like it back, and if Michael English would release
:27 it, that would be wonderful.
:06 I do believe there are others out there owed the money.
:09 They only have three years to attempt to collect and
:19 then it's too late.
:27 This time they said you have to figure out how to get
:24 Mike English to talk to us.
:09 A, I say amend the document a bit so it's not one
:03 person and let's see who is owed refunds, and who do I
:21 follow up on this board so I myself can at least get a
:06 refund?
:06 Can someone answer me?
:24 Because I reached out and since Miller, we were working
:10 on it, they have given me no answer.
:15 So me going back to you, it's almost like you need the
:24 help.
:04 I know I'm not the only one.

:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt you.
:06 If you could stop the time for a minute.
:06 The point to discuss the issues specific to you with
:22 the special assessment would be during the public
:15 hearing.
:06 My public hearing was that you passed out material to
:15 Council regarding something to consider generally with
:07 regard to a suggestion about reporting.
:10 If you could address that during public comment, if you
:24 wish to address your specific issues, if you could do
:16 it during that specific special assessment public
:27 hearing.
:25 >> Certainly.
:10 I apologize.
:15 We had a disconnect there.
:25 What I've handed out here is for general reporting.
:07 As you can see, it shows beginning at the vision
:12 mission values what your mission is, very clearly.
:21 It shows, also, and I'll put down on the six strategic
:21 focus areas, efficient government.
:24 If you go through to the next page, the state of Alaska
:27 has a very simple charter.
:25 This is a template.
:03 This is something south Gandy is work on with us.
:21 Historic Hyde Park, East Tampa.

:07 It is a huge effort so we can get communication from
:04 you, you reach out to who is spending the money.
:01 You're spending our money.
:01 They should report you and we should be able to get the
:22 information through you so when they have issues, we
:06 can track them, talk to them.
:06 We then broke it down, project charter for the
:03 different ones for the special assessment including
:00 historic streetcar.
:06 We're just looking for one month's time when you pass
:07 anything to get a charter back in a month and we should
:03 be able to reach out to you directly because they have
:13 given it to you.
:21 You know what the focus is in scope and out of scope.
:12 It's pretty simple to read.
:03 And the very last page and this is standard practice,
:07 weekly, the people spending the taxpayer money should
:10 be submitting a weekly report whether you review it or
:10 not.
:21 It has issues.
:18 It has risks.
:16 When we talk to the departments or like Mike English,
:22 he lists it as an issue.
:24 When you get your weekly report, you realize he did
:24 hear us.

:09 If it's not there, you know, hey, it's historic
:00 streetcar, there's an issue that should be on the list,
:15 why aren't you addressing it.
:27 We're giving you taxpayer dollar, we want a good
:07 product for our customers.
:00 That goes back to the six strategic areas that we
:16 included unlike the state of Alaska proposal.
:09 Everything we're spending on is in align with what
:18 you're in full support of.
:00 There is clear communication and we are the next
:16 greatest city with a date.
:22 It's not just the next.
:10 We can put a date on it.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
:06 >> I'm Mark ALMA.
:28 East Kennedy Boulevard, Channel District.
:01 I wanted to speak about the downtown special
:15 assessment.
:10 I spent the last month --
:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
:16 But the appropriate time to do that, sir, would be
:19 during the public hearings on the special assessments.
:27 Those will be coming up very shortly.
:28 >> I'm sorry.
:21 When it said public speaking I thought it was for all

:21 the stuff on the agenda.
:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any item not set for a public hearing.
:06 You can speak for any item not set for a public hearing
:18 or --
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
:15 Anyone else wish to address Council?
:03 We'll move then to anyone wish to request
:12 reconsideration on legislative matter?
:27 Okay.
:18 We'll move then to the ordinance presented for first
:00 reading.
:15 Mr. Miranda.
:19 We're on ordinance presented for first reading, number
:15 one.
:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance
:21 presented for first reading, an ordinance authorizing
:27 certain encroachments, balcony with canopy overhang and
:19 support columns and footers over portions of the public
:27 rights-of-way known as North 10th Street and East
:12 Columbus Drive, in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
:06 County, as more particularly described herein, subject
:09 to certain terms, covenants, conditions and agreements
:27 as more particularly described herein, providing an
:03 effective date.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has been moved and seconded by

:03 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
:09 Opposed?
:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
:25 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
:01 September the 4th at 9:30 a.m.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance
:07 upon first reading.
:10 An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, amending
:06 City of Tampa Code chapter 14 offenses; article II,
:07 section 48; making it unlawful for a property owner or
:21 lessee or property owner to cause a vehicle to be towed
:13 without a written order; making it unlawful for wrecker
:27 operations or wrecker drivers to tow vehicles located
:01 on private property which is licensed to sell alcohol
:15 without a written order provided by the owner during
:22 certain business hours; providing for severability,
:15 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict;
:15 providing an effective date.
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, significant by aye.
:00 Opposed?
:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
:15 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
:21 September the 4th at 9:30 a.m.

:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to our committee reports.
:12 Public safety.
:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolutions three through six.
:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
:03 All in favor, signify by aye.
:06 Opposed?
:04 Parks and recreation, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move resolutions 7
:27 through 14.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:13 Seconded by councilwoman Mulhern.
:15 All in favor, signify by aye.
:12 Opposed, same sign.
:22 So moved.
:18 Public Works Committee, Councilman Miranda.
:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 15 through 35.
:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:24 Seconded by councilwoman --
:18 >>THE CLERK: 34.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
:21 Need to pull out 34, Mr. Miranda.
:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Why is that?
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern requested to pull
:00 34.
:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can I speak on 34 now?

:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This item is one that through the
:03 benefit of, oddly enough, the bad economic times, the
:04 City of Tampa is receiving a bid offer that is reduced
:10 by what the estimated cost was by over a million
:06 dollars, pushing two million dollar operation.
:06 And I see nothing wrong with that.
:03 We had to go into the funds for -- I don't think I see
:21 anything wrong with that when you're saving money.
:09 These are funds that are transmitted on paper so that
:15 we could operate this and get it done.
:16 This was passed sometime back when we went to the
:22 bonding series so we can get the Water Department in
:21 line with the reality.
:06 These are lines from two inches to 40 some inches to
:22 speed up the process by which we don't spend money on
:09 just continuing repairs of water lines but to continue
:22 improving the water lines.
:06 We're going from ten miles a year or 50 miles in five
:24 years to 40 miles a year, and it would be a benefit to
:25 all the taxpayers to have the infrastructure addressed
:19 and in place so that the future citizens could have the
:21 same good living that we enjoy now.
:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I pulled similar item last week or the
:03 week before just because of the large amount, the large

:09 capital expenditure, which this one is almost
:18 $9 million again.
:06 I had my questions answered.
:24 I'm fine with it.
:07 I understand that, you know, we have a low bid and
:27 we're saving a lot of money on it and that's great.
:27 What I'd like to ask if it's possible and I wouldn't be
:13 pulling these items in the future is when we're
:22 approving a huge expenditure like this, if we could
:21 know what actual part of the project, at least
:21 geographically where this will be happening.
:18 I think Brad or Steve Daignault was going to be here.
:06 10:30, okay.
:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll agree to hold it till 10:30.
:24 I have no problem with that.
:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I feel when we're spending that much
:13 money, the public should know where it's going.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll include -- we'll exclude it now.
:15 Items 19 and 20 already continued.
:27 There's a motion and a second.
:03 All in favor, aye.
:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just a clarification.
:28 Did Council still want staff to come and answer the
:16 questions today on that?
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, item 34.

:27 The item has been approved, it was in the motion.
:04 Item 34 was in the motion.
:00 Councilwoman Mulhern would like the staff to come and
:18 address her concern, okay?
:03 Finance Committee, councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
:15 I move items 36 through 39.
:12 >> Second.
:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also, we need to have a resolution
:06 presented on September the 4th.
:21 Moved and seconded.
:21 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:12 All in favor, signify by aye.
:15 Opposed?
:15 Councilwoman Joseph Caetano, building and zoning.
:21 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I would like to move items 40 through
:03 59.
:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We're going to pull items 42, 43, 44
:15 and 45 and take them up after the CRA.
:27 All items except those four items.
:27 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Okay.
:10 We'll exclude those items.
:09 >> Second.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
:15 Opposed?

:12 Okay.
:27 Transportation, councilman Dingfelder.
:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
:06 Move items 60 through 69.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
:21 Charlie Miranda.
:03 All in favor, signify by aye.
:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 64 and 65 were asked to be pulled.
:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I looked at those yesterday.
:15 I do have a question about 65, but I don't have a
:28 question about 64.
:09 If we could just pull 65.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move 60 through 69, excluding
:21 65.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:09 Pulling 65.
:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
:15 Opposed?
:10 Items set for public hearing.
:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Set items 70 through 75 for public
:04 hearings.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
:15 All in favor, signify by aye.
:27 Opposed?
:03 Take up now the second reading on proposed ordinance,

:24 public hearings.
:12 We need to open.
:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 76 is nonquasi-judicial.
:18 After you take that you'd be requested to swear in the
:21 witnesses.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76, Councilwoman Miller.
:24 Anyone want to address Council, come forward on this
:15 item?
:15 >> Move to close.
:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
:27 for second reading, ordinance of the City of Tampa,
:24 Florida, amending City of Tampa Code of ordinances
:15 chapter 22, streets and sidewalks, section 22-103;
:16 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
:27 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
:27 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who want to address Council,
:09 please stand and be sworn at this time.
:06 Items 77 through 83.
:00 If you're going to address Council on any items from 77
:06 to 83, you need to stand to be sworn.
:21 (Oath administered by clerk).
:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby.

:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:15 I ask that all documents that have been available for
:27 public inspection at City Council's office be received
:12 and filed into the record at this time.
:15 >> So move.
:18 >> Second.
:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:01 So moved.
:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you've had any ex parte
:03 communication, please disclose those prior to the vote.
:28 Lastly, there's a sign-up sheet outside that if you
:19 were going to testify that you do sign in.
:10 I'm putting the sign to remind you to please reaffirm
:04 that you have been sworn.
:07 Thank you.
:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77, anyone here wish to address
:04 Council on this item?
:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:21 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:24 I move to adopt the ordinance upon second reading,
:03 ordinance amending ordinance 2006-159, vacating,
:09 closing, discontinuing and abandoning certain

:09 rights-of-way, all or a portion of those certain
:15 rights-of-way contained within the proposed heights
:12 community development district generally located south
:15 of Ross Avenue, west of Tampa Street, north of the
:24 north bank of the Hillsborough River and east of north
:15 boulevard in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
:10 Florida, amending section 2, 5, and 8 of said ordinance
:27 to amend certain covenants, restrictions and conditions
:03 set forth in said ordinance relating to a certain
:01 parcel as more particularly described herein, providing
:22 an effective date.
:18 >> Second.
:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
:07 Record your vote.
:16 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
:15 absent at vote.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
:28 78?
:07 >> Move to close.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:18 So moved.
:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance presented for second
:22 reading, ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
:09 amending a development order pursuant to section
:25 380.06, Florida statutes, filed by the Westshore

:27 alliance for the Westshore area-wide development of
:24 regional impact, DRI number 141, a previously approved
:22 development of regional impact and providing an
:03 effective date.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
:09 It's been moved and seconded.
:00 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
:09 Record your vote.
:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
:24 absent at vote.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 79, anyone wish to address Council
:01 on this item?
:06 >> Good morning, Council members.
:06 LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
:00 Item 79, 81, 82 and 83 all require certified site
:27 plans.
:12 These plans have been certified by the zoning
:24 administrator and provided to the clerk.
:12 I have copies of the plans in case you have any
:18 questions.
:00 >> Move to close.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:06 Councilman Miranda.
:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for second
:24 reading.

:00 Move an ordinance approving special use permit S-2,
:07 approving off-street commercial parking in an RM-16
:21 residential multifamily zoning district in the general
:15 vicinity of 2412 and 2414 West North A Street in the
:00 City of Tampa, Florida and as more particularly
:13 described in section 1 hereof, approving waivers as set
:19 forth herein, providing an effective date.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
:09 Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
:09 Record your vote.
:19 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
:01 absent at vote.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
:21 80?
:06 >> Move to close.
:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:00 Councilman Miller.
:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:22 I move the following ordinance for second reading for
:09 adoption.
:21 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
:00 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor,
:13 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from
:21 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 5137
:18 north Florida Avenue, Tampa, Florida, and the sale of

:01 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
:27 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
:22 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP), for
:00 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
:21 consumption off premises at or from that certain lot,
:01 plot or tract of land located at 5135 north Florida
:00 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, said properties more
:12 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
:24 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
:21 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
:04 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
:12 effective date.
:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll support this motion but I'll be
:22 very restrictive in the future on alcohol zonings.
:18 I think we've gotten to the point now where we have a
:15 wrecker service, or you have a body shop or you have a
:12 hair salon, I don't want to say hair because of myself,
:22 you're entitled to get these things.
:06 We're getting to the point now where your child care
:13 center will have these things.
:28 It's getting to the point overextending.
:03 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, on this motion, what if
:27 there's a violation in one of them?
:18 Being that we're voting on both of them at the same

:09 time on the same motion, if there's a violation on one
:10 of them, does that negate the second one also?
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Counsel may want to address that.
:04 >>REBECCA KERT: It is all one wet zoning with two
:21 separate categories.
:13 If there were any revocation proceeding, the revocation
:00 would be to the entire wet zoning.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:01 Record your vote.
:04 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Do you have my vote?
:10 >>THE CLERK: No, I'm short one.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mulhern is out.
:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Caetano and
:21 Dingfelder voting no and Mulhern being absent at vote.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
:22 81?
:15 Item 81, anyone wish to address Council?
:19 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of Council, Mark
:15 Bentley, 201 North Franklin street.
:19 I really don't have anything unless you have any
:24 questions.
:00 Notably, Councilman Miranda was not in attendance last
:18 time, so if you need a refresher, Mr. Miranda, we'll
:21 gladly do that for you.

:06 We have documentation that we would like the clerk to
:12 receive and file.
:04 I notice that Mr. Fernandez is here, I believe, to
:18 testify in connection with this matter.
:13 So I'd appreciate the opportunity to have a couple of
:21 minutes of rebuttal, if that's the case.
:06 Thank you.
:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council?
:28 Anyone else?
:21 >> Dennis Fernandez, architecture review and historic
:06 preservation manager.
:04 I apologize, I was not able to attend the July 31st
:21 first reading.
:21 I was at a neighborhood meeting.
:12 I am here available today for you to answer any
:06 questions dealing with the recommendation by the
:10 architecture review commission to deny the PD plan as
:12 submitted.
:22 I know there was some discussion about that.
:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
:15 I'm very appreciative of you attending this morning.
:03 If you could elaborate a little further on the
:09 recommendation of disapproval.
:12 >> The architecture review commission voted unanimously
:18 to deny the application as presented based on criteria

:24 within the Tampa Heights design guidelines,
:09 specifically that the office space which entails
:01 parking beneath the building is a building form that is
:27 foreign to the historic districts.
:21 The architectural review commission has been very
:06 consistent in attempting to keep this type of building
:03 form out of the historic districts because it does
:16 violate certain inherent parameters of the character of
:24 all the historic districts, including Tampa Heights.
:21 That being said, it was seemed to be inconsistent with
:06 the building masses and forms within the district with
:12 other details of historically appropriate commercial
:21 forms and more specifically set out in various pages of
:06 the design guidelines.
:09 One of the primary pages that was pointed out is the
:25 design for compatible new construction within the
:06 district, which deals with massing and building form
:15 and entrances and ports projections.
:28 Under massing and building forms, it states not
:27 permissible to use massing and building forms
:01 specifically really dealing with more specifically the
:19 building forms and massing, which is a result of a
:00 building form.
:18 The garage at the lower level is requiring that another
:03 story be added on the building.

:19 Completely foreign to the Tampa Heights historic
:16 district.
:01 Also dealing with the proper siding of a commercial
:15 structure, you see that delineated here within the
:24 design guidelines on page 49.
:22 Also referenced was page 54 during the discussion,
:18 which dealt with entrances and porch projection.
:21 The plan as presented does not allow for traditional
:07 application of an entrance and porch projection.
:12 Here is one in close proximity.
:21 I read the transcript.
:24 I know there's a lot of discussion about some of the
:22 development that was happening more towards the west,
:00 those are areas outside the local historic district.
:28 Also Mobley park development on the south side, also
:19 outside the local historic district.
:24 The large multistory building, mid-rise building to the
:07 north of the property, that existed prior to the
:01 district being designated.
:12 In addition to preservation, when you deal with the
:13 historic district, you deal with the redevelopment of
:21 vacant parcels.
:12 You see, this particular building, which is a
:16 contributing structure within the district, which
:27 situated at the ground level with a defined entrance.

:22 That's a very important characteristic of the historic
:27 district is having a defined entrance at the ground
:15 level.
:00 When we look at the aerial, this building that I just
:27 referenced in this location here, this is a subject
:15 property.
:24 The historic district runs here, so you're just
:07 essentially at the southwest corner of that district.
:12 This is the multistory property that existed.
:00 There's been a development historically -- in this
:21 location.
:06 There's redevelopment in this location.
:06 And in this location, and a prior project approved here
:22 has not evolved.
:15 There was another development that was approved here.
:00 This is a contributing structure and then, obviously,
:24 you have opportunity for redevelopment there.
:00 So that's the basic premise of the A.R.C.'s decision.
:21 They were adamant about it.
:18 There were four individuals who were present and all
:09 agreed that the PD site plan as presented did not
:16 satisfy the design guidelines of Tampa Heights.
:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say you are really
:07 an effective communicator of what our guidelines are.
:25 And I hope that in the future you won't have a

:16 conflict.
:12 Because I think your testimony that evening might have
:06 made a difference.
:00 I really appreciate you being here this morning.
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dennis or petitioner, do you have a

:06 picture of the existing building that's there right
:09 now?
:24 I wanted to see it on the overhead.
:04 Dennis, my question is to you as related to this
:28 picture, we had a long discussion that night about the
:21 project, and I know that there were certain things you
:18 mentioned that the A.R.C. wasn't thrilled about, some
:27 of the details and that sort of thing.
:00 The thing that persuaded me to vote for this was this
:13 building, because -- and I didn't mean to insult the
:15 gentleman who owned it, but it's not an attractive
:13 building and by far, it doesn't mean any standards for
:07 the district.
:00 So I looked at it as an opportunity to really upgrade
:13 this building and then the other building.
:04 The upgrade of this building I don't think anybody had
:25 a problem with, correct?
:24 >> That's correct.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This building, the upgrade gets an
:04 A, the other one gets a B, something like that.

:00 Looking at it as a whole, I felt like this was an
:06 opportunity, with the upgrade of this building, to go
:27 ahead and approve it.
:07 Did the A.R.C. look at this building and the upgrade of
:09 this building as well?
:24 >> I would like to explain, the A.R.C. supports
:25 redevelopment within the district.
:10 That's one of the fundamental tools to really
:19 preserving the area and bringing the area back.
:15 However, under its charge, in looking at this project,
:10 as you said, at the two components, they supported the
:16 renovation of this particular building.
:22 It is sited somewhat consistent with the historic
:24 pattern or development with the front setback and

:07 whatnot.
:22 So they felt that was something that could be
:06 integrated in, even though it's an existing building
:15 somewhat meeting the new construction criteria.
:09 The second building and the model and the precedent
:03 that that sets forth with allowing for parking beneath
:27 buildings, which although I understand that the
:12 contention of the applicant is that's going to be
:19 shielded, we've seen from various examples that are
:01 outside the historic district that those efforts
:21 usually fall short of being successful.

:22 That was the main concern of the board.
:25 And once that is in the district, that will then come
:00 up again as a basis for adding those maybe in areas
:03 where there is nor historic fabric present.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I appreciate that, too.
:27 It's just to me, if you can tuck away and hide away a
:15 dozen cars or however many will be under that building,
:12 I think that's an advantage to the community as well.
:10 A dozen cars you don't have to look at out in the
:01 parking lot.
:24 I appreciate all the work the A.R.C. does and all the
:00 work you do.
:21 I think on this one I'm in favor of an exception.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano and councilwoman
:27 Mulhern.
:16 Councilwoman Mulhern.
:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to point out, and
:21 Mr. Dingfelder, this is not an historic structure, the
:15 current structure.
:10 And this is an opportunity in redevelopment to build
:06 within the historic guidelines of that neighborhood,
:03 make that neighborhood more consistent, more historic,
:09 increase the property values and make it an urban
:22 neighborhood that is being restored.
:25 And if you drive down -- I know we saw these pictures

:24 from staff, I'm pretty sure at the first hearing, but
:10 if you drive east on 7th Avenue, you just go about a
:22 block or two and there are a couple of beautiful
:16 restored buildings that are being used as offices.
:03 So I think that it's wrong to think that this is an
:03 opportunity not to do the right thing and not to build
:25 within the historic character.
:09 It's an opportunity to do the right thing and build
:12 something that fits in.
:15 And this is a beautiful block, a gorgeous neighborhood
:15 that if it did have a more consistent building,
:06 something like this, which is entirely possible, and I
:00 believe -- is this in the district?
:15 Yes.
:27 So there are examples of buildings, commercial and
:13 residential, that fit -- would fit in beautifully.
:06 And the fabric of the neighborhood, you know, these are
:25 some of the threats.
:25 This is a patch of it.
:09 It's not that big of a neighborhood.
:21 Every time that you say, okay, you don't have to build
:04 within these designations, which the neighborhood wants
:16 and approved, and which our historic preservation
:15 people recommend, then you're just saying, okay, it
:00 doesn't mean anything.

:25 The guidelines don't mean anything and what the
:03 neighborhood has voted on and decided to pursue doesn't
:28 mean anything.
:21 And so I can't support it.
:27 I'd love to see a new building there that fits in with
:28 our guidelines, and I honestly don't see why they can't
:18 do that for -- I believe it's a law office.
:03 And I just -- I think that we have to -- you know, we
:00 can be outraged that we don't have historic buildings
:01 and protect our historic buildings, but then we ought
:12 to protect the historic fabric of our neighborhoods,
:21 too.
:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would you just reiterate that your
:03 issue was the parking below the building?
:18 >> One of the concerns of the A.R.C. was the parking
:28 below the building.
:01 The model that sets forth.
:12 And the fact that parking being situated below the
:25 building is resulting in an entrance feature that
:24 essentially consists of an elevator as you walk through
:03 the door, some stairs perhaps.
:28 There's not a defined entrance.
:21 It changes the entire character of how the building
:09 functions.
:27 That's what the guidelines refer to under building


:21 forms.
:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
:00 I think that's really the key.
:10 What's being proposed by the petitioner is not an
:00 unattractive building, but you shouldn't park
:04 underneath it.
:03 This is in an historic district, which is why the
:12 A.R.C. gets to weigh in on it, which is why they have
:19 objected to what you're proposing.
:12 If you could have a two-story building with parking
:13 behind it, it would be perfectly acceptable and
:12 encouraged and appreciated.
:21 But the form that you've proposed really isn't
:07 consistent, which is why there was a unanimous vote by
:18 the A.R.C. rejecting it.
:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
:03 Thank you, sir.
:24 Five-minute rebuttal.
:04 >> Once again, Mark Bentley.
:18 Council, you had the opportunity to review the A.R.C.'s
:18 recommendation to City Council concerning the zoning.
:27 Clear the parking underneath was the issue.
:00 No problem with the design.
:15 You heard Dennis talk a lot about design issues and
:12 those are more appropriate in the context of when you

:27 go to the A.R.C. for design and review.
:00 Their charge was to give a recommendation considering
:21 land use compatibility at that location.
:03 Our clients bought the property in 1983 when this was
:06 essentially a war zone.
:16 They rezoned the property in '83 to about 9500 square
:27 feet.
:09 We're asking for another 2200 square feet of
:27 professional office.
:19 Now, with respect to these design guidelines,
:25 Mr. Chairman, you gave me five minutes, but I'm giving
:01 you copies of the design guidelines.
:16 They say essentially that's what they are.
:12 They are guidelines.
:12 Our client owns the renovated office structure directly
:06 to the north in the same block.
:03 The design guidelines aren't meant to apply to
:03 commercial to emulate or simulate residential
:21 structures.
:03 That's kind of what's going on here.
:24 I can take you through the design guidelines and show
:28 you we fulfill those design guidelines.
:06 Nowhere in the guidelines do they say parking
:18 underneath is inappropriate.
:25 They say you need to disguise or block the parking.

:16 I have photos of Bush Ross across the street and
:03 Stetson, where it's been very successful.
:22 Also, there's a very important item I want to show you.
:24 When the city weighed in on redeveloping this block and
:16 I've given you a copy.
:03 This is proposal for block 13, our client's property
:27 from Florida to oak north of 7th Avenue.
:09 You can see here what I'm pointing to is our client's
:18 property and what the CDC on behalf of the city
:27 proposed in this redevelopment plan was a five-story
:03 building, and there's some parking underneath and then
:16 a parking garage for the entire district on the western
:04 half of the block.
:27 The city essentially owns the western half of the
:10 block.
:21 I know I'm running out of time, but it was a good idea
:25 when the city was proposing redevelopment there.
:13 And I've got Susan elfman here, Mr. Chairman and
:00 Council members, just to address a couple of the design
:06 issues, which seems to be the crux.
:06 >> My name is Susan.
:12 I'm the project architect.
:18 I just wanted to point out a couple of items in the
:15 design guidelines.
:06 In addition to what Mr. Fernandez already told you.

:15 The style of the building is explicitly stated on page
:04 5 of the guidelines, the Mediterranean style -- which
:24 you also indicated is acceptable.
:13 With regard to the parking under the building and
:09 massing of the building, section of the guidelines on
:22 page 45 which talk about massing and building form
:25 specifically states that it is permissible to have a
:09 building form, which is unique in Tampa Heights, but
:09 relates to the neighboring buildings and to the
:09 neighborhood through its overall massing.
:03 While the Bush Ross building and Stetson building are
:21 not in the historic district, they are neighboring and
:19 they are in proximity, and they are more of the scale
:15 of a commercial building that this building would
:21 relate to.
:10 Additionally, under the parking section on page 67, it
:28 specifically states, it is permissible to provide
:12 parking to meet the City of Tampa zoning code, which
:16 does not distract from the visual character of the
:00 Tampa Heights historic district, and it is permissible
:18 to screen parking from the street with landscaping,
:00 fencing, walls or buildings.
:00 So we are attempting to provide -- we have asked for a
:15 waiver for some parking spaces, but we are attempting
:15 also to provide a visual screen and not to detract from

:15 the character of the neighborhood by hiding some of
:27 that parking while still meeting the zoning
:10 requirements for parking.
:10 In addition, it is not, you know, green building,
:07 sustainable design are very popular, but very practical
:09 and necessary ways of thinking about buildings today.
:03 I think we would be irresponsible not to think that
:28 way.
:06 It would be irresponsible of us to tear down a
:25 perfectly functional building in order to provide site
:09 parking for a new building.
:27 And that's why we've come to the solution where there's
:21 parking under the building.
:16 It's hidden.
:15 It's screened.
:12 It meets the stylistic guidelines of the neighborhood
:09 and in addition, based on what I just said about
:12 parking, we are using the guidelines to hide that.
:06 >> There are some proponents.
:27 Just one comment and then I'll take off.
:27 Entire block 13, one contributing structure.
:03 It's an old house that has been renovated.
:06 That's my client's house.
:27 To the south are townhomes, that's out of the district.
:09 I've given you a photo of the multistory building

:00 behind us which is not going to go away.
:06 I think we've demonstrated we meet these somewhat
:09 ambiguous design guidelines and clearly compatible.
:12 The only hang-up is parking underneath, which no one
:06 will ever see.
:09 We have the owner here and a lot of people from the
:06 neighborhood took time off today to testify before
:19 Council.
:04 Thank you.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:07 Thank you very much.
:27 >> My name is Harvey Schronbrun.
:09 This is my office.

:06 I was worn in this neighborhood across the street at
:21 St. Joseph's Hospital.
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just procedurally, Council, he's had
:10 rebuttal.
:06 Now we're asking public testimony early on.
:01 So you need to correct us here procedurally.
:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ideally, Mr. Chairman, the procedure
:06 would allow the petitioner an opportunity to provide
:03 full case for 15 minutes up front and then allow for
:04 public comment.
:03 Or whatever staff and then to allow for rebuttal.
:18 These people did not have an opportunity to speak

:28 during Mr. Bentley's case in chief.
:15 He did not invite them up at that time.
:15 It's Council's pleasure whether it wishes to allow the
:21 petitioner to do so at this time --
:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to way of the rules.
:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second and allow the public to speak
:24 and anybody who wants to speak on this.
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're slightly out of order.
:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second public hearings, Council,
:06 sometimes that happens, unfortunately.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me point out, Council.
:28 Let's be aware.
:27 We open it up for public comment and for the
:28 petitioner.
:24 The petitioner spoke and said I'm here available and
:21 save for rebuttal.
:01 He gave away that 15 minutes that he ordinarily would
:15 have had.
:27 When you invite them up, I'm here if you have any
:04 questions.
:18 I'll save whatever time for rebuttal, is that accurate.
:15 That's what happened.
:22 He pretty much waived all of that and moved right to
:00 Mr. Fernandez.
:24 At that point, Mr. Fernandez came forward and you began

:12 asking questions.
:27 Then at that point, we gave him opportunity for
:03 rebuttal.
:03 Once you open it up again for the public -- I'm just
:00 pointing out to you what the process is.
:00 Motion to waive your rules to allow the public to
:25 speak.
:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
:27 All in favor signify by saying aye.
:18 Opposed?
:15 Okay.
:03 Motion carried.
:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that motion include having the
:09 petitioner have his --
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He has to have the last word.
:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It also means what Mr. Bentley is
:13 doing is providing people in support who are his
:22 clients as part of his case.
:10 Is that my understanding?
:12 Is that part of the motion to allow that as well?
:21 >> Yes.
:06 >> There's only one person I guess you could say
:18 relates to my case and that's Harvey.
:12 The rest are the general public.
:00 >> Thank you for your consideration.

:04 I'll be brief.
:27 As you were saying, I have tremendous ties to the
:24 neighborhood.
:12 I was born there.
:09 My doctor was there.
:04 Attended synagogue around the corner.
:03 My mother was born three or four blocks north of this
:27 property.
:09 I love this neighborhood.
:19 When we purchased it, it was a bomb shelter looking
:07 type building.
:00 It wasn't attractive.
:00 We tried to fix it up.
:10 It's still not an attractive building.
:06 I've got Salvation Army across the street.
:24 We had a lot of homeless people walking in the
:21 neighborhood.
:06 Thought that this was my opportunity to try to do
:22 something beautiful for the neighborhood.
:06 And the style of Stetson and Bush Ross.
:10 Of course, I don't want cars parked on the streets like
:04 in Hyde Park.
:12 We thought keeping the parking contained under the
:06 building would be a plus.
:18 I haven't had any neighbors tell me that they don't

:18 want this.
:15 As a matter of fact, they've had all of the neighbors
:25 telling me that they would love to see something like
:12 this happen.
:27 The only development that seems to have met the
:16 guidelines that I've heard today was up the street
:09 where they built one structure, never built any more
:27 and it sits empty now five years after it was built.
:03 So nothing, basically, is going on in the neighborhood.
:21 Empty buildings, buildings for rent.
:21 We believe this will be a spark for the Tampa Heights
:07 neighborhood.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
:21 >> Harvey Schronbrun.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to address Council?
:18 >> My name is Todd cook.
:00 I work at the office right next door to the law
:21 offices.
:16 Personally, we used to work in Westshore area district,
:21 and we moved to this nice neighborhood, historic Tampa
:16 Heights district, and I think what Harvey is trying to
:09 do is really improve the neighborhood.
:15 I've lived in Tampa over 20 years.
:22 I've seen the city grow and there's not a development
:07 that needs to be done.

:15 I think these guys are really working on it the right
:06 way.
:16 Having seen the Ross building, the Stetson school, I
:16 see this building as being a complement to that
:16 historic district and what it can do for the area.
:21 >> My name is Robert.
:00 I work right next door to the project building.
:03 Personally, I think it only improves the whole look of
:01 the neighborhood.
:24 And I don't think there's anything negative about it.
:00 It's nothing but improvements.
:18 And not only for this building, but also our building
:06 will be improved.
:09 >> My name is Chris SLOOP.
:24 I also work next door to the building in question.
:12 I, too, agree that it's a beautiful building in terms
:03 of plan, and I don't think it will do anything except
:21 help the neighborhood.
:24 >> My name is Michael Batista.
:04 I was here last time.
:00 Some of you already know me, but I just think the whole
:16 design concept would be good for the area.
:13 If you're a common citizen, you stand on 7th Avenue
:04 or Florida Avenue, you can't tell where the Tampa
:13 Heights zoning area specifically starts and ends.

:13 You just look over the whole area and basically, like
:21 has been said already, the whole area basically empty
:09 buildings, old structure buildings and nothing has
:21 really been done except the Stetson university and the
:27 bush building.
:25 And I think this will be a big complement to the whole
:03 area.
:28 And the parking underneath, I think is fantastic.
:09 I'd rather look at the building than look at an old
:04 beat-up car or old car right across the street parked
:19 in the middle of the road or on the side of the road.
:21 I think all of you would agree if you were there.
:15 So we're all for it.
:00 Thank you.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:06 Thank you.
:09 >> Janelle Anson, 101 South 12th Street.
:16 I'm here basically to say what it sounds like is we
:18 have good in front of us but we don't have excellent or
:27 great.
:18 I stand here having worked extensively with my
:09 neighborhood, East Tampa, Hyde Park, Tampa citizens for
:18 good government, it's a long list.
:15 What we're saying is we don't want printed on cups

:19 we'll be the next greatest city and buy it in bulk

:15 because we'll wait to be.
:19 Put a stake in the ground.
:00 Dennis made a very good point.
:22 The gentlemen are saying parking is fine where it is.
:03 A.R.C. is saying we need to make it better so we can
:25 the best.
:18 What you said, Mulhern is excellent.
:12 I'm grateful for the questions you are clarifying
:28 Saul-Sena.

:13 And thank you Dingfelder for coming clear why you came
:27 forward.
:15 Look what happened to the linear park on Westshore at
:04 one point.
:22 Take a good look.
:21 The reason we have guidelines and I come from the
:21 Channel District is so you have a say for those who
:28 voted you in the office.
:18 They are guidelines.
:16 You get to interpret them for the community and the
:07 people you represent that will make this city great.
:25 You have the opportunity, you have the chance.
:03 That's why they are guidelines.
:16 If they weren't guidelines, they would be code and you
:00 would have to wait to change the code.
:03 These are guidelines.

:10 Listen to what Dennis is saying.
:06 Listen to what public is here.
:18 They are not all here.
:28 We have jobs and I'm grateful to my employer.
:16 After a while, we stop the e-mails and phone calls and
:10 start buying mugs in bulk at the airport, we'll be the
:07 next great city.
:15 Let's look at good, but let's see if we can get better
:13 and best, because there's a lot going on in the Tampa
:10 Heights area and I know this and there are buildings
:21 going up that haven't been mentioned so that
:21 insinuation isn't correct.
:04 Listen to the comments.
:03 Consider like you have others and please, let's get
:01 better and best going.
:06 Guidelines are here for you, but they are here for you
:13 to interpret for the people who voted you in office.
:12 Thank you.
:21 >> Mr. Chairman, here again, we can debate the design
:24 guidelines.
:06 They are not really crystal clear.
:06 We can make a case based on the guidelines.
:24 Likewise you've heard from staff.
:16 I want to clarify one point, Dennis had mentioned in
:12 his testimony that allowing parking underneath the

:00 building was unprecedented in the historic districts,
:18 and the Barrio Latino Commission last year in
:03 connection with the project known as turnstile
:16 approved -- it's at 5th and 13th -- approved this
:04 project with parking underneath, and, actually, City
:15 Council approved this project -- I think it predated
:06 some of the newer members, latter part of 2006, at
:01 5th and 13th, sitting on the elmo.
:24 It was endorsed by the A.R.C. staff or barrio Latino
:00 staff.
:09 It's not unprecedented.
:22 I can give you all the case number and things like that
:22 if you are interested.
:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does this back up to the railroad
:27 tracks?
:19 >> Yes.
:24 >> That's true.
:16 The point is, he has said there is parking underneath.
:09 It was unprecedented and it's precedented.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:21 Motion to close.
:21 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
:01 Councilman Dingfelder, you had a question.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If guidelines were meant to be
:03 strictly followed, then we wouldn't need to be

:24 addressing it.
:09 The reason we are here is to look at the guidelines.
:27 Page six right in the middle of the page says
:24 guidelines are not a means to dictate specific
:25 solutions that must always prevail nor are they rules
:18 and regulations.
:18 Instead, they provide consistent guidelines.
:01 And then further on, it says it is permissible in
:01 regard to parking.
:12 It says it is permissible to provide parking to meet
:06 the City Code, which does not distract from the visual
:24 character of the district.
:24 It is permissible to screen parking from the street
:09 with landscaping, fencing, walls or buildings.
:24 That's what the gentlemen are trying to do.
:22 I think on the whole, we have to look at these things
:12 holistically.
:07 We can't look at every single little nitty-gritty
:03 detail.
:15 We have to look at the big picture.
:10 They are improving a really poor structure, and they
:24 are adding a decent structure.
:03 On the whole, I think we should support it and support
:18 Tampa Heights.
:09 There is not one neighborhood person.

:01 Ms. Mulhern, you said to me we have to support the
:03 neighborhood.
:15 Not one neighborhood person came in front of us last
:16 hearing or this hearing to oppose this.
:03 So I am supportive of the neighborhood.
:24 This neighborhood wants redevelopment, and this is good
:21 redevelopment.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
:12 Mr. Schronbrun has been a real pioneer in Tampa
:04 Heights.
:00 I applaud the fact that he has had a professional
:15 office there for years.
:03 He's a great guy, a conscientious person and I think he
:25 wants to do something beautiful here.
:18 My problem here is that in my estimation and in the
:04 estimation of the preservation board, this proposal
:12 doesn't meet the sense of what the form of Tampa
:24 Heights is, which is to not have parking underneath
:27 structures.
:09 If you had proposed new structure and the parking
:12 behind it, I would have no problem with it.
:22 I won't be able to support what's before us.
:00 I caution us about the approval of this, because
:07 Mr. Bentley and I both have long memories, and I'm

:18 certain that if he's up here again in the Tampa Heights
:04 area, he will cite this as a precedent for us approving
:15 this.
:27 I really believe if we approve this particular parking
:15 under the structure, we will not hear the end of it,
:10 and it will change the character of Tampa Heights.
:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: As I said at the last meeting, I
:21 appreciate what Ms. Saul-Sena has done for 17 years.
:27 Okay.
:07 We need to change if we're going to be the next great
:18 city.
:00 If somebody wants to spend all this money to revitalize
:21 this area, we've got to make a change.
:22 If we don't start here today, we'll never get there.
:13 Mr. Fernandez, do they want parking on the street up
:04 there?
:25 >> Can't ask a question.
:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: If we're going to be the next great
:24 city, I've been here 20 years, we're in a stalemate.
:01 We're not getting anywhere except spending money.
:22 Thank you.
:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have to point out that most of
:24 the neighborhood activists have jobs and can't be here
:00 during the day.
:27 They are not paid to come here and convince you to

:10 preserve their neighborhood.
:21 And they -- they worked long and hard on these
:04 guidelines for their neighborhood.
:22 So I think it's our responsibility to remember that
:18 work they did and to speak for them when they are not
:09 here.
:21 I'm not going to support this because I think Tampa is
:04 never going to be anything different than it is if we
:07 don't raise our standards a little bit and we don't
:03 little by little try to preserve what we have.
:18 So I can't support you.
:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not going to get into a debate
:00 with the honorable Council member of district 2 Mulhern
:06 and Dingfelder district 4.
:15 I'm not going to go out and step on any big toes or
:12 those that are elected citywide.
:03 But let me say this, Tampa is the best city.
:27 Not the next greatest city.
:25 If it wasn't, we wouldn't have any population coming
:27 in.
:12 If it's so bad here, what are we all doing here?
:27 Got the lowest crime.
:09 People come here for various reasons.
:15 The weather, the weather, and the weather.
:10 You have summer and Christmas.

:04 That's it.
:06 That's why they come.
:24 I can't stop them.
:12 We've had a fantastic change.
:00 A multitude of things have happened.
:00 What was Tampa Heights just ten years ago?
:18 Who was going to move into Tampa Heights ten years ago?
:19 Not too many.
:25 This government and the prior administration have taken
:09 the outlook of making every neighborhood a place to
:10 live, a place where you could have a better city.
:28 I'm not going to say great.
:10 No city is great.
:10 All of us have faults.
:21 All of us in government have faults.
:06 But we must take responsibility for what we see and
:18 what we have to do.
:21 So when I realize these things and look at these
:24 things, I have to agree with my colleague
:15 Mr. Dingfelder on this one.
:10 That doesn't mean I agree with you on another one.
:24 I won't always agree with you like somebody said here.
:04 I'll say this, I feel confident that what is being
:21 done, and I remember what they said about the hospital
:00 that was located there.

:07 You know what, that's gone, been gone, been moved.
:10 Everybody moved out, that used to be an area where
:12 people of big means used to live at.
:27 Big brick homes.
:03 Tall 18-foot ceilings inside.
:18 They are all gone.
:18 There was a doctor.
:21 There were lot of business people who lived there, and
:21 through the years when people pass on, their children
:12 want to see an adventure.
:19 They want to move somewhere else.
:21 The grass is always greener on the other side of the
:24 fence.
:24 That's what happened at Tampa Heights.
:27 We certainly have spent a lot of money in restoring the
:24 homes and doing different things.
:12 I can name you a few of them but I won't because of the
:25 time.
:10 And I just feel confident that this Council will do the
:03 right thing.
:24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
:22 Read the ordinance.
:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance presented for second
:06 reading, ordinance rezoning property in the general

:22 vicinity of 1802 North Morgan Street in the City of
:09 Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in
:15 section 1 from zoning district classification PD
:15 planned development, business/professional office to
:09 PD, planned development, business/professional office,
:06 providing an effective date.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved by Councilman Caetano
:12 and seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
:09 Record your vote.
:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern and
:18 Saul-Sena voting no.
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: May have time to take up one more
:07 before staff reports.
:10 Item 82.
:21 Anyone wish to address Council?
:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is the petitioner here?
:00 Does the petitioner want to address Council?
:09 >> Move to close.
:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye.
:24 Mulhern, item 82.
:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
:06 I move an ordinance rezoning property in the general
:15 vicinity of 10701 north Nebraska Avenue and 904 east

:27 Seneca Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more
:12 particularly described in section one from zoning
:12 district classification RS-50, residential
:25 single-family to PD, planned development,
:00 business/professional office, providing an effective
:25 date.
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:18 Seconded by councilman Charlie Miranda.
:10 Record your vote.
:28 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena being
:04 absent at vote.
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83.
:06 Is the petitioner here?
:27 Anyone wish to address Council?
:10 Petitioner, you wish to address Council on item number
:21 83?
:13 Motion to close?
:07 >> So move.
:10 >> Second.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
:10 Opposed?
:00 Councilman Miranda, would you read 83.
:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance rezoning
:15 property in the general vicinity of 201 south
:13 MacDill Avenue, in the City of Tampa of, Florida,

:06 and more particularly described in section 1 from
:00 zoning district classification PD planned development,
:15 massage therapy, to PD, planned development, medical
:24 office, providing an effective date.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
:04 Record your vote, please.
:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern and
:21 Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to take up these time certain
:21 items here on 84, 85 and 86.
:07 Those are the assessments.
:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open.
:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
:03 Item 84.
:01 >>SAL TERRITO: Sal Territo, Legal Department.
:04 Item number 84 is for the downtown special assessment
:00 district, you have before you the resolution and all
:07 the attachments.
:06 I'd also like to submit at this time the affidavit or
:01 the certificate of accuracy of the assessment roll, if
:00 I may.
:21 Any action you take has to be done during the public
:18 hearing.
:28 Please don't close the public hearing before you take

:27 action on any of these items.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:27 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?
:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, did you wish to take them
:03 individually.
:03 >> Christine Burdick with the Tampa Downtown
:12 Partnership.
:00 We are pleased again to be before you to ask for your
:22 approval of the special assessment district for
:24 downtown, the greater downtown area, which includes the
:04 Channel District as well as what's known as the
:16 downtown core.
:22 We have visited with each one of you.
:21 Happy to say this has been -- we're halfway through
:07 this year of activity, and have been able to deliver
:22 the services that we pledge to.
:06 We are looking forward next year to be able to further
:01 mechanize and expand our cleaning and our ambassador
:06 guides, crews.
:12 We have specifically because we have more residents
:15 now, they have become a large part of our base.
:07 We are building things into the program that will
:24 benefit both the commercial and the private property
:18 owners, the individual residential property owners.
:19 We have an ambitious retail recruitment and retention

:24 program planned for next year.
:18 So we see that as an investment that will keep
:00 delivering both more vitality to downtown, but things
:15 to bring the residential lifestyle up, including some
:04 beautification efforts that we do and certainly we know
:15 that the clean team and the guides provide services to
:15 all, but a special amenity to the residential.
:12 We'll be able to expand the hours a little bit next
:15 year due to some mechanization and to the small
:07 increase in the assessments that we will experience
:19 next year.
:12 Unless you have any questions, I have delivered
:06 information to all of you, and we will be here to ask
:01 any questions if they are presented, and we request
:10 your approval.
:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker on item 84.
:24 >> Charlie Salier.
:09 1002 Channelside unit 2-E.
:15 I received three special assessments on my particular
:13 unit over the past two weeks totaling about $500.
:21 >> That means you're extra special, right?
:15 >> I guess I am.
:04 [ LAUGHTER ]
:03 It's a bit frustrating this unit, it's a one-bedroom,
:03 one bath located at the corner of Channelside and

:06 Washington.
:07 $7,000 per year is what the taxes are.
:27 I have the tax roll if anybody wants to look at it.
:12 You know, once again, you know, the area demographics
:00 projected the household income be $51,608.
:01 This was done a couple of years ago.
:06 Obviously, the revitalization of that area has not
:10 happened.
:13 There are so many vacancies, my understanding, the
:18 front page of "The Tampa Tribune" today has 101
:19 foreclosed units for sale.
:09 Two of the fifteen units in our building are in
:00 foreclosure.
:19 Five of the retails are currently vacant.
:25 The biggest problem is taxes.
:12 $51,000 of a hopefully guesstimated annual income,
:27 you're talking close to 15%, 18% just for their taxes.
:00 I firmly disagree with this.
:00 Fourth generation Tampa resident, and I just think
:18 we're getting taxed to death.
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You had the tax --
:22 >> I sure do.
:09 This particular building.
:25 It's the four-story building at the corner of
:03 Channelside and Washington.

:13 And it produces -- I don't know if you guys can see
:18 that --
:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can just pass it up.
:22 >> $104,000 last year for the 15 units --
:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to talk into the mike, sir.
:19 >> $104,000 for the 15 units before any assessments.
:22 10 of them being rentals.
:10 There's a square footage breakdown on there as well.
:18 Once again, my particular unit is 1500-square-foot,
:21 it's a pretty large layout, however, it's a one
:15 bedroom, one-and-a-half bath unit.
:19 One car parking garage.
:21 And with these assessments, it's going to be in excess
:15 of $7,000 a year in taxes for a one bedroom, one bath
:21 unit.
:01 I really can't grasp it.
:19 We look at the streetcar.
:12 I Googled last night the City of Tampa waste,
:09 et cetera, and just Hartline pops up, one of the first
:09 few things.
:28 Of course, goes back many years, just misappropriation
:27 of funds and so forth.
:03 And I think we could tighten up somewhere else in lieu
:09 of taxing this area out of price range for the normal
:00 average citizens to come in there and live.

:09 The demographics that I've shown you here obviously not
:12 happened, many of the buildings are very vacant.
:22 There's no retail at all.
:22 I'm sure if any of you guys drive through there,
:13 there's nothing down there.
:21 Nobody can afford it.
:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we all sympathize, that's a
:22 big tax bill.
:27 When you bought this thing within the last year or two.
:15 >> No, I bought it in '03 preconstruction under the
:24 whole we're going to revitalize this district.
:03 I bought it in '02 actually.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You were an early pioneer on it.
:12 These fees, these assessments have been in place for
:01 quite a while.
:28 >> Not the additional assessments here.
:19 This is an additional $500 that you're talking on a
:27 single unit.
:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Additional because of the streetcar?
:28 >> Streetcar, the Tampa commerce.
:21 I forget the name of it, which I fully appreciate.
:12 Unfortunately, I don't think the fruition has appeared.
:28 We're getting killed down there.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
:06 I'll get a clarification on that.

:03 But, basically, you knew that there were going to be
:13 some assessments when you purchased it.
:10 >> Absolutely not.
:25 I just received this in the mail, three of them.
:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no.
:24 When you purchased in '03, you did your due diligence
:19 to look into --
:27 >> In '03, the taxes were projected to be about $2500
:24 per unit.
:16 We're close to triple that now.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By who?
:15 >> By the developer and what was going on down there.
:27 There was nothing to set precedents as far as taxes.
:03 There was very minimal residential at that time.
:00 I have a $12 stormwater.
:18 I've got $101 historic electric streetcar project and a
:03 $300 safety maintenance marketing and beautification
:06 and transportation.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, thank you.
:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like a clarification from
:18 staff.
:27 And that is, is what's before us today an increase over
:15 last year?
:15 It's my understanding -- and I've been on council for a
:21 number of years -- that we have not increased the

:00 assessments.
:15 What is proposed this year is not an increase over last
:00 year's assessment.
:10 >>SAL TERRITO: No, it is.
:21 It's the same assessment as last year.
:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What we're really talking about is
:28 not the square footage of your unit, not the size of
:24 the unit.
:12 This is the dialogue, this is me talking.
:06 I'm really sorry, but the truth is, things were heavy,
:07 things were booming, and people paid a lot for units.
:12 And your taxes are a portion of your purchase price,
:06 which is the value.
:03 We as City Council have not increased -- what's before
:25 us today is not an increase over last year.
:00 And I don't believe it's an increase over the year
:13 before.
:28 So I'm saying that whether people are in their units,
:06 whether they are trying to flip them, whether the
:03 developer still holds them, that isn't what is before
:01 us today.
:16 What's before us today is an assessment, which is not
:09 an increase over last year, although we know that the
:07 price of providing city services increases.
:09 I'm sympathetic, but it's not a dialogue, thank you.

:04 >> [not at microphone]
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't talk, though.
:09 You've had your three minutes or three-and-a-half
:21 minutes.
:16 >> [not at microphone]
:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, that's not how it works.
:22 No, that's not how it works.
:12 You get one bite at the apple.
:24 I'm sorry, sir.
:00 >> [not at microphone]
:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
:07 >> Hi.
:22 My name is Gary garrison.
:09 I own unit 2008 in Skypoint.
:09 I just wanted to reiterate the gentleman before me as
:24 far as opposing assessments.
:16 You can call them taxes, assessments, whatever they
:01 are.
:24 I have no problem paying for my realty tax on had the
:10 condo unit I own.
:16 However, if I continue to get more and more special
:03 assessments for projects such as the Ybor railcar, I
:25 simply cannot continue to live in a city that's going
:21 to assess everything, every little special project.
:13 I mean, where does it end in my view?

:27 Like I said, I bought the property, I have no problem
:10 paying the real estate tax.
:03 That's fine, but for special projects, you can't assess
:15 the citizens.
:24 Every dollar you suppress of mine, I can't go down the
:04 treat to hat tricks.
:04 I can't go to USF games.
:04 I can't do that stuff, so keep that in mind when you're
:15 giving out special assessments for beautification and
:19 things like that.
:25 Certainly stormwater, Tampa's necessity.
:18 I'm willing to pay for that.
:19 But special assessments for pet projects such as the
:01 historic Ybor assessment that I got.
:28 I really can't see it.
:09 And I'm not quite sure how this helps the downtown
:00 Tampa business, which is what I'd like to see you all
:28 address, being a young professional in the city, I
:06 would like more businesses down there.
:10 I don't see the relation between having a historic
:10 railcar or maybe some beautification projects.
:01 What I want are high-paying jobs in downtown.
:16 So I just want to state my opposition to that, and
:21 thank you all for your time.
:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

:21 Councilman Dingfelder.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The homesteaded properties in the
:21 Channel District are downtown are exempted.
:21 >>SAL TERRITO: Downtown I don't believe is.
:06 I think the Channel District is and I think Westshore.
:18 I don't think downtown is.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not downtown.
:15 But in Channel District which is where the two
:09 gentlemen have come from recently.
:16 >>SAL TERRITO: It's possible --
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Skypoint is downtown.
:21 I was thinking Skypoint was Channelside.
:27 But homestead --
:22 >>SAL TERRITO: Streetcar and Westshore do exempt the
:03 homestead.
:18 The downtown does not exempt the homestead.
:09 If I said it differently, that's what I was trying to
:09 say.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is everybody comfortable with that?
:16 >> The downtown special assessment record -- Christine
:00 Burdick, Downtown Partnership.
:07 The downtown assessment which you're hearing about
:01 right now covers the whole area that includes Channel
:25 District as well as downtown.
:03 The historic streetcar exempts homesteaded properties.

:00 The assessment district for downtown and Channel
:21 District for management services was instituted in 1994
:06 and residents were included then and this has never
:00 been changed.
:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
:22 Thanks for that clarification.
:15 I think that's important to note that for anybody who
:25 is complaining about the streetcar, if you're
:12 homesteaded, then you're not going to be assessed for
:07 the streetcar in Ybor, Channelside or in downtown, for
:27 what it's worth.
:09 Maybe the people that we're hearing from are not
:21 necessarily homesteaded.
:06 I don't know.
:22 >> Mark Alma, 1120 East Kennedy Boulevard.
:24 Not just here for myself but also I guess can say
:18 elected representative for owners of grand central
:21 which probably right now about 200 owners of the 400
:24 units.
:04 Just to clarify just for a second only because it's
:00 taken me a month to learn about the special assessment
:16 and I'm spending all this time trying to learn city
:12 politics, I don't think most people know that 1994,
:25 this is a special assessment where we get the letter,
:03 the special assessment makes it sound like this is new.

:03 It was just this year, and that's what comes to us and
:09 that's why everybody is confused.
:27 I've get hundreds of e-mails and not one in support,
:12 just so you know.
:15 Having said that, after spending the last month of
:03 trying to first find out what this is all about and
:09 then talking with Linda with the Downtown Partnership,
:25 I like what the Downtown Partnership does.
:21 I understand that it's been here since 1994.
:07 So the vote today isn't going to change no matter what
:01 anybody says here and I know that.
:01 All I want to do is propose something, 23 to 25 percent
:01 increase, not an increase per person for last year, but
:27 just because there's that many more people paying into
:03 the assessment this year, it's 23% more.
:13 Of that, a quarter of that money is set aside for
:09 marketing and business development.
:21 Having that in mind, the one thing that we've had
:06 meetings talking about this, we all felt the same
:19 thing.
:07 Residents are not getting a dime out of this.
:01 It's good for downtown.
:09 It's good for the development, good to keep the streets
:19 clean.
:18 Good for the marketing of the city.

:09 What I would like to see, you would get a lot more
:24 support from the residents, from me and I would push
:01 this out as much as I could as well.
:12 Next year at the hearing, you have more people in
:09 support of this, if you would spend more of the money
:27 for the residents.
:15 The one thing we're missing is a grocery store.
:21 We have all these special assessments that I would like
:07 to see and have a commitment from the city and from the
:12 Downtown Partnership that we'll take that next step and
:09 say we'll put this on as a high priority to help offset
:06 taxes whatever we have to do to get retail into the
:22 buildings down there.
:27 We'll have a unique city.
:10 You won't need to drive.
:06 I think that's a great concept and that you could get
:12 support on, I'm sure.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
:01 I like that.
:16 >> Janelle Anson, 101 South 12th Street.
:15 I, too, received the e-mails including from Mark
:06 reaching out from the new building opened up.
:13 We're looking forward to the next buildings and the
:27 next wave that comes down with the same frustration
:27 which goes back to what was originally handed out,

:10 communication.
:21 You saw the Tampa Downtown Partnership and Christine
:09 Burdick came out and spoke at our monthly open forum.
:03 We're slowly getting ourselves submitted to the city to
:00 be recognized again.
:09 Working with historic Hyde Park as our mentor.
:25 What we're looking for with her group is take the
:04 different sections and what I'll have here, I'll put

:09 down just on front, you'll see if you look, it's
:21 project charter.
:13 This is a template.
:25 In the next -- what this project charter shows, at the
:24 beginning, it gives a purpose.
:19 We then went to their Web site and pulled out their
:18 different groups, which are arts and culture.
:19 If you switch it over to this, arts and culture and
:09 under purpose, the purpose -- and it shows at the very
:12 beginning, who would be the sponsor.
:04 You're the sponsor, where is the money coming from?
:15 It's coming from the special assessment.
:04 Look, this is just what Alaska do.
:07 Many states do and it clearly shows what is the budget
:01 specifically out of the full special assessment.
:04 And what are the man-hours.
:16 Let us see the projects for the residents and

:03 businesses down there.
:10 Let's have some accountability so we're not as
:13 frustrated as to why the bill is so high and I don't
:21 see anything, maybe there's a lot of good work going on
:07 but we're not communicating it.
:25 We know we're spending money, and all we see are
:18 presentations.
:10 We don't have the accountability.
:25 This is basic project management.
:13 The projects going on with the Downtown Partnership do
:09 do this.
:09 Standard practice.
:19 The packet you were handed earlier, if you go through,
:25 second one, we broke it up so it says very clearly on
:07 it, as I go through my paperwork here, planning and
:12 management.
:22 And where did we get the titles of these?
:27 If you go to their Web site, it very clearly breaks
:21 down their committees and we put the project manager as
:06 the staff contact.
:12 That should be the key contact.
:27 Under each of the five headings, they are going to have
:09 their subprojects, things like bring the grocery store
:10 or where is the dry cleaner or marketing.
:25 That's a subproject.

:00 At least we then know.
:21 At the end of the day, well, it's always nice to have
:12 and this is standard practice for them internally and
:15 anyone.
:03 I'm a program manager, I do this for a living.
:01 They submit and love to have on file, where is the
:04 status of the project.
:00 Is there emergency, is there an issue and do we have
:16 risks?
:04 There might be a risk, but it's low.
:09 This is all standard practice.
:27 But if you don't start asking for it, we won't get the
:06 support we need.
:06 We won't be as frustrated next time.
:15 Perhaps we can lower it because we're spending wisely.
:03 We're working smart.
:21 Would hate to think our CRA funds are going to
:27 something they are doing as well.
:15 Now we have three people on projects spending same
:12 amount of money getting nowhere, not communicating.
:24 This is the alignment that numerous are working with us
:06 in the Channel District.
:09 Hyde Park, East Tampa, Gandy.
:18 We're aligning so we can get clear communication.
:24 We can support you who we've elected, and we can be the

:22 best city there is.
:16 So, please, if we can -- the other thing I was asked to
:24 ask, can we have two meetings, neighborhood with City
:22 Council this year so we can review the projects, where
:19 the money is going so it's not frustration at the end
:07 of the year.
:03 May we?
:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you, Ms. Anson, for
:16 bringing this template to us.
:06 What you have articulated today is the frustration that
:00 many of us Council members have felt.
:01 I think that asking for a weekly report is too much.
:19 But I think a monthly report or at the very least once
:07 every two months on how we're doing with our projects,
:00 where the money is going would really create
:10 transparency which would benefit everyone.
:24 It would create understanding for the public.
:12 It would create understanding for Council members
:06 sitting as Council members and the CRA.
:22 And it would provide the staff an opportunity to really
:06 demonstrate what we're doing and what the timeliness of
:16 it is.
:06 We have improved in terms of budgets.
:28 We now get the budget at the beginning of the budget
:06 year as opposed at the end, which we used to do with

:12 CRA.
:22 We improved in the CDBG budgeting.
:24 I think the template that you have given us would be
:00 truly useful, and I'm going to encourage my colleagues
:15 to ask the administration to adopt it, and certainly we
:06 sitting as the CRA board could say that this is what we
:03 want to do because I think we need to know how the
:21 money is being spent.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Janelle, this $100 refund you
:07 referred to earlier, if it said Mike English, Mike
:03 English is not a paid staff member.
:13 >> I know, that's my problem.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not a problem.
:03 What I would suggest, the paid staff people who run the
:21 streetcar for Mike English, et cetera, is David ARMEJO
:24 at Hart and get in touch with Ed Crawford who works
:12 with David, and see if you can work on that refund.
:04 >> I've gone down that path and I'm here again.
:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, if you have documentation,
:10 take it over there and see what they can do.
:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think it's important to turn it
:03 over to Mary Mulhern who is the representative for us
:06 on the streetcar.
:01 Maybe she can get something done.
:18 I don't know.

:16 >>MARY MULHERN: You got a notice from the streetcar --
:18 historic streetcar board that you were owed a refund?
:00 I didn't hear the beginning.
:04 >> How it works, and you'll see this in our
:12 neighborhood as it grows.
:18 Your specially assessed --
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest, because our time is
:16 getting away.
:09 Let me suggest you meet with her.
:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I'll meet with you.
:18 Our streetcar chair is David Mechanik, who is right
:18 there.
:00 If you have a chance, you might talk to him.
:10 Does that come from the city, Dave?
:15 It doesn't come from Hart, does it?
:19 It comes from the city.
:00 Make an appointment and I'll help you figure it out.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I appreciate that.
:21 Our time is getting away.
:01 I really need to move this.
:24 Do we need to read the whole resolution?
:27 >>SAL TERRITO: You've done it differently by opening
:01 all three.
:21 If you want to, I can submit the next two to you or
:13 bring them up individually.

:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take 84, read that.
:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You just have to move the resolution.
:15 >>GWEN MILLER: I move the resolution for item 84.
:03 >> This is the resolution for the downtown.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to ask if there's anybody
:13 else who wishes to speak?
:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 84, I see none.
:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:15 Moved by councilwoman Gwen Miller and.seconded by
:22 Councilman Dingfelder.
:07 All in favor, aye.
:04 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena being
:15 absent at vote.
:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 85.
:15 >> Item 85 is the historic streetcar.
:04 I have the same information for you, and I would also
:18 like to submit a certificate of accuracy of the
:21 assessment roll and the certificate that indicates the
:18 notices had gone out properly.
:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address Council,
:21 item 85?
:25 >> Mr. Chairman, David Mechanik, president of Tampa
:27 historic streetcar board.
:15 We don't really have a presentation this morning.

:25 You've heard pretty much the issues, but I did want to
:28 clarify, our assessment for the streetcar, and
:09 Ms. Capdaro from Hartline has some materials we would
:09 like to pass out to you.
:21 The assessment went into effect in the year 2000, which
:06 would have been before the first gentleman spoke, so
:27 that assessment was in effect and has not changed.
:06 We have not proposed an increase in the assessment in
:27 all the years.
:27 And what is happening, each year, Council renews or
:06 readopts those assessments, so that's why there are
:15 notices that come out every year.
:18 But we are not increasing the assessment.
:28 And I would just like to report that we've had another
:01 record year on ridership.
:15 We are on track to match last year's number, which was
:22 a record of 420,000 riders.
:00 And we look forward to extending the streetcar into the
:28 center of downtown, which will provide even more
:27 service to the central area of downtown.
:00 Thank you.
:00 >> My name is Moses Knotts junior.
:24 2902 east Ellicott street.
:04 You know, I was just sitting back there.
:07 I've been sitting up in this place a long, long time.

:12 And every time you all pass an ordinance or do
:00 something, I'm sitting in the back there figuring out
:25 that it ain't going to work.
:24 This streetcar thing, I was sitting in the very back
:04 there when you all put this whole thing together.
:03 My friend, Dick Greco -- I always call him my friend --
:24 he's a smart man.
:00 This assessment for the streetcar thing, anybody -- I
:12 was sitting in the back and I said, my God, somebody is
:25 going to hurt one day.
:06 I'm sitting back there thinking about all this stuff.
:18 People sitting there, UHH, looking at you, don't know
:12 what the man said.
:15 Don't know what you are putting on paper.
:06 Just sitting there signing your life away and getting
:18 away with it.
:09 Come out and say we have the best streetcars, the
:04 streetcars have air conditioning, best in the country.
:03 Paid for by blood.
:10 I sit back there a while ago, these people just
:03 beginning to see what happening.
:15 I was sitting back there when the thing first got
:09 organized.
:27 I sit there and listen to everything you all do, for
:03 the last 35, 40 years I've been coming here.

:25 I know one day, like a boomerang, you chuck it out
:00 there, it's coming back.
:00 People don't know what's going on.
:27 I tell people to look at the City Council, come here,
:00 speak up, because one day it will be too late.
:10 Now it's too late.
:18 A lot of poor people in Ybor City live close to that
:18 think.
:00 I feel sorry to them.
:07 I cry to the Lord.
:12 Lord, why?
:18 People sit there and let you all do that and get away
:15 with it.
:00 That's why I come here.
:03 Many people ask me do I get paid?
:21 No, I don't get paid.
:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
:04 Motion?
:27 Item 85.
:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and second.
:00 All in favor, aye.
:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: -- the streetcar folks increasing

:27 ridership, moving ahead with the continuation of the
:00 track to the north and creating something that all
:03 visitors as well as residents value.
:03 Thank you for your volunteer participation on the board
:21 and what you've accomplished.
:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 86.
:24 >>SAL TERRITO: Item 86 is for the Westshore special
:12 assessment district.
:09 They will be submitting the affidavits and letter
:07 indicating that these items have gone out to the clerk
:18 sometime this week.
:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address Council?
:24 Item 86?
:25 After we take up this item, we'll hear from staff and
:15 then we'll stand in recess for the CRA.
:00 >> Good morning.
:15 Chris weber, Westshore alliance.
:18 Here on behalf of the Westshore alliance to ask your
:12 support for the special assessment.
:25 This is our seventh special assessment funds marketing,
:21 transportation, and security programs for this year, as
:24 in the past years, we have not changed the boundary nor
:21 the types of properties assessed.
:21 We do not assess residential properties.
:27 Our budget this year is lower than last year, and also,

:03 our millage rate is lower than this year -- last year.
:03 Our programs remain the same.
:21 We have marketing.
:21 Our transportation now is moving into the pedestrian
:06 improvements, so we're looking forward to doing that.
:24 And we have -- I have letters to give you from support
:03 from property owners from the Westshore area.
:25 I'll be happy to answer any questions for you.
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, I haven't heard any dissension
:01 this year, which is a good thing.
:07 >> Thank you.
:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of years ago, Randy was
:19 telling us about I think the cameras on the buildings,
:07 and that was an ongoing project.
:06 Have you all pretty much wrapped that up?
:18 >> Yes, sir.
:00 Actually, we're down to two cameras now.
:00 All been converted to fiberoptic.
:24 Those cameras will probably stay until the end of the
:15 construction on the interstate out there.
:28 And once that's done, then they will be converted to
:15 fiberoptic.
:15 Those funds for transportation are now being used for
:21 the pedestrian improvements.
:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to commend you all for
:00 being real leaders in terms of doing a plan for
:15 pedestrian improvements and Orienting some of your
:04 funding to implementing it.
:12 To be a pedestrian is going to be increasingly
:18 important as we have such a mixture of commercial,
:18 professional, and residential uses.
:09 We want to encourage pedestrian activity.
:24 We want it to be safe.
:00 Thank you, all, for redirecting some of your funding
:27 toward making those improvements.
:18 >> We're looking forward to doing it.
:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to address Council?
:16 >> Move the resolution.
:27 >> Second.
:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:04 All in favor, signify by aye.
:03 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close items 44 through 46.
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
:15 We'll now take up staff report.
:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have items 91, 92, 93, 34 and 65
:28 were removed from the consent docket.
:06 If you can get through the staff reports quickly, your
:19 CRA is scheduled to start at 11:00.

:18 As soon as you can do that.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She had a question about 34, but it was
:16 included.
:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: -- want to speak to the director of
:09 the Water Department regarding item 34, I think it
:12 would be appropriate at this time.
:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if you heard when I was
:16 asking, my question about the big capital expenditures
:27 for the big water pipes is when we're approving this
:21 one in particular, do we know where this project is
:24 happening?
:06 >> Brad Baird, Water Department director.
:12 We know most of the projects, all of the pipeline
:24 replacement projects, we have a list of those.
:21 The projects that are proposed by developers, we do not
:15 know most of those yet, but we can certainly provide a
:27 list.
:18 >>MARY MULHERN: And if you could get that list to us.
:00 And then in the future when there are these huge
:24 expenditures, if we could just see the list with the
:07 backup on the agenda, then I wouldn't be troubling you
:06 to come over here.
:21 We'd know what was going on.
:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, would you wish to
:24 inquire if that should be a motion of Council as a

:15 request to the administration to make that standard in
:06 the backup material?
:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'd like to move that be standard in
:10 the backup material for capital projects or any
:12 projects, say, more than 3 million.
:22 I don't know.
:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't set a dollar value.
:07 If it's one dollar or million dollars or $10 million, I
:06 think we should know.
:00 Something of importance to all of us, to all the
:24 taxpayers, should be categorized into a million dollar
:00 project or more.
:03 I think they all should be.
:09 They are just as important.
:07 >>MARY MULHERN: And I think it's important, too, these
:15 are -- you know, we're saying we're cutting down on
:24 personnel and reducing our costs, but these huge
:06 projects we're hiring consultants and engineers and all
:24 kinds of people to do this work.
:09 Our taxpayers' dollars are going into -- they may not
:18 be paying people who are paid staff but they are paying
:27 outside people and I think we need to know that.
:09 People need to know that and who they are.
:04 What contractors they are getting.
:18 >> We can certainly do that.

:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion, moved and second.
:15 All in favor, aye.
:15 Okay.
:00 Thank you.
:15 Item 65 you pulled.
:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I pulled item 65 to ask -- the
:27 resolution is authorizing $204,310 for Hart for the
:06 InTown green line service.
:00 So I want to know what exactly that service is and
:15 where that money is coming from.
:04 What fund.
:06 Okay, the gas tax fund.
:27 Yeah, I want to know, is this like the regular daily
:00 route for this, or is this special?
:19 >> Jim Stefan, budget officer.
:09 This is a continuation of the contract.
:09 I have a little bit of a map here, which basically
:12 shows it supports a lot of the convention center,
:12 guests and everything, from getting the North Tampa --
:18 north of downtown to downtown to the convention center
:15 area over to Channel District.
:10 So very supportive of convention center patrons.
:06 >>MARY MULHERN: It's kind of hard, that map is so
:00 small.
:06 >> I apologize.

:27 >>MARY MULHERN: My big question is how often this is
:03 running.
:24 I'd like to know what kind of ridership there is on it.
:15 And also whether it's following the same route as the
:15 streetcar actually follows.
:12 That's a lot of money to spend on that if we could be
:25 utilizing the streetcar.
:13 >> I have ridership information that they provided us.
:21 Through May.
:16 And you can get an idea that as events occur, the
:21 ridership becomes very accelerated.
:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I'd like a copy of the map and maybe
:06 with my reading glasses I can actually see it.
:13 >> The service is basically -- I believe it's primarily
:00 on Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday, and it's
:09 to move people around.
:00 So it's when business and events are occurring.
:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
:27 But move them around where?
:21 That's my question.
:28 >> I can provide you with a copy.
:09 >> [not at microphone]
:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, you can't speak from the audience
:00 like that.
:21 >> We can talk.

:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:07 You want to move that item?
:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item 65.
:04 >> Second.
:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
:12 Item 91.
:13 >> Good morning, Council.
:21 Chuck Walter, director of the stormwater department.
:00 Council had asked for me to come back and give an
:19 update on the status of the waterway program in the
:06 city.
:21 Right now, we're in a very good position with the
:06 waterway program.
:09 We've been moving along at pretty good speed.
:07 We've got the survey completed in the canal system.
:25 Not completed.
:24 Primarily done.
:13 We have most of the canals done.
:22 We'll have a scope of work to you to comply with the
:22 National Environmental Policy Act, the NEPA
:03 requirements, for the federal appropriation of 1.3
:06 million towards this project.
:21 We'll have that scope of work to you probably within
:21 the next two meetings of Council.
:15 The water management district has also come to the

:21 plate in northwest Hillsborough basin board as not
:24 quite appropriated yet.
:04 It's shown in their budget to appropriate a million
:06 dollars towards this project, not for the dredging
:15 component but for the placement of the material.
:21 We hope to be able to put this material back out into
:27 Tampa Bay and fill some of the dredged holes that are
:15 an environmental problem out in Tampa Bay.
:27 So we've got that somewhat commitment from the
:10 district.
:21 It has to get through their final budget process as
:15 well and we have to do an agreement that you'll see
:27 later.
:09 One of the things that has come up, we have put off the
:07 voting procedure.
:07 We had gone to Council back in early spring with the
:13 voting procedure on how to move forward with deciding
:18 if a canal would be in the assessment or not in the
:28 assessment.
:18 And one of the reasons we wanted to get that done up
:21 front, we wanted to be able to get the rolls into the
:19 property appraiser in this time frame.
:03 City administration basically made the determination,
:12 you know, let's put this project out to bid first.
:25 Let's get the dollar value of what people will be

:06 assessed before we go and ask them to actually vote and
:00 contribute to a project when we don't really know the
:12 number.
:27 We were using a planning number of around $8,000 per
:00 residential property.
:03 But frankly, it could come in last.
:06 It could come in a little bit more.
:24 But it would be better if we could give the actual
:15 dollar value to the properties and ask them to vote on
:06 what the actual assessment would be.
:09 So it really does not significantly impact the schedule
:21 to do it that way.
:28 It will be asking the city to make a commitment of
:22 proceeding with the project without having a dedicated
:03 funding source.
:13 So when this all comes together in the spring, when
:03 we've a contract to award, we'll have to do the roll,
:24 the assessment, all those things will be compact into a
:10 small package of Council actions, quite frankly, you'll
:06 have a lot more information to make those decisions.
:12 We see it as a very positive outcome that we'll have
:15 all this information and allow people to really make an
:24 informed decision.
:19 That's where we are today.
:12 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

:00 >> A gentleman was here this morning and said he
:06 received an assessment, what was that about?
:10 Were you here when he was speaking?
:06 >> No, I wasn't.
:00 The only assessments are the existing stormwater
:09 assessments on the books.
:24 There's been no new assessment for this program at all.
:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
:25 Did your question get addressed?
:12 >> Ellie Montague, Browning Avenue.
:19 Dr. Nester was here because he received a letter
:18 stating that he would have to pay.
:03 He is the third house down from lake Dundee that's all
:12 impacted from the city's dumping of stormwater.
:18 It's obvious where his canal is filled up that's the
:07 river Dundee.
:12 That's filled up down to his house and he'll be charged
:03 for the city's dumping on his river where he has his
:06 house.
:27 He should not have to pay for that.
:21 He should not have received a notice that would worry
:18 him that he would have to pay an unknown amount to
:27 continue to clean up the waterway that the city has
:15 dumped on.
:07 He pays high taxes like everyone else who lives on the

:15 water.
:00 And it is unfair.
:06 And we've seen all these things, switched back and
:09 forth and waste of our city money and our taxpayer
:24 money.
:12 Just exactly like Kipling, where they had it all ready
:24 to put the scepters in and cleaned out all the spots in
:09 front of the pipes where the scepters are going.
:12 They should have cleaned all those springs out in the
:27 middle.
:00 That was a total mess with dead fish.
:28 I had to stomp my feet to get them to clean it up.
:28 Now the streets are all torn up and curbs are torn up.
:03 They should have finished with the 1.3 million the way
:00 it was intended.
:27 The money was to clean up that Lake Dundee, which isn't
:03 the lake.
:27 It's actually an estuary with springs in it, just like
:25 Kipling is.
:21 It connects by way of a creek.
:15 That creek is filled with siltation.
:28 They need to use that money, the 1.3, what it was
:27 awarded for the estuary and not the canals and not
:12 to --
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you ask Ellie if she was happy?

:25 >> You really should be more involved, Mr. Dingfelder.
:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm involved.
:15 >> I know it's your area, and I've never been able to
:12 get you out there to walk the area.
:12 It's a very serious thing, the amount of money and how
:09 long have they had this grant, 1.3.
:13 How long have they had it?
:10 I think four years or more and wasting it.
:04 You know why they haven't gotten hold of it?
:19 They haven't done environmental issues, EPA won't
:27 release it.
:27 Somebody else ought to look into it more closely than
:18 Ellie Montague.
:09 I do have the map showing the muck in lake Dundee.
:21 It's obvious to anyone that muck went down to nester's
:18 house, which is the third house down, was there because
:27 of it being put in by the city.
:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
:24 Thank you.
:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I am extremely proud
:27 that this city, after four or five administrations came
:21 and went and Ms. Montague wanted her lake dredged and
:12 her lake dredged and her lake dredged and finally after
:03 four or five administrations came and went, this
:06 administration and this Council got that lake dredged.

:24 So not all of it dredged, but some of it's dredged.
:18 And it's an improvement and we're making improvements
:06 and that's what government is about.
:06 >> I just want to say that the reason any
:03 administration did anything is because the neighborhood
:21 filed a lawsuit because we weren't meeting NEPA
:04 standards, and they got the federal government
:21 involved.
:15 And we weren't getting our certificates.
:15 And then the city moved.
:03 So it really has been because of neighborhood activism.
:27 And I salute the neighborhood.
:00 If they hadn't hired I think it was Robin Lewis to do
:13 the research to sue the city, we wouldn't have moved
:12 ahead, gotten the grant.
:00 And I share the concerns of the neighborhood that the
:09 grants be used for what they were originally granted to
:00 the city to address.
:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:28 Thank you very much.
:24 Item 92.
:10 Legal Department and Land Development Coordination to
:25 appear and provide a report on whether it is necessary
:16 to adopt an ordinance to change the height requirements
:24 for installation of windmill or similar structure.

:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you did receive a memo dated
:07 August 11.
:18 It does say appear.
:07 >> There was a memo that was submitted if you needed
:13 something else.
:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that was a motion by Miranda and
:18 Saul-Sena.
:10 I guess you all are happy.
:06 >> I think the person who researched it indicated we
:10 couldn't do it.
:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The memo -- the memo recommended we
:16 shouldn't do it.
:03 My concern on the windmills is sort of twofold.
:10 On the one hand, I think that we should, as a
:00 community, we should look into all sorts of alternative
:15 energy sources, wind, solar, et cetera.
:12 My concern is and I've seen this in other communities
:00 around the country, including Massachusetts, what
:00 happens is, somebody says you know I can save a lot of
:13 money on my power bill.
:19 I'll throw up a windmill in my backyard.
:12 Kathy, you are here.
:22 Maybe you were part of that memo.
:18 So my concern was, I don't want to see people starting
:09 to throw up windmills in their backyard with a big pole

:22 that might be either visually disruptive or create
:03 noise disruption for their neighbors without us getting
:25 ahead of the curve in regard to our zoning code and
:18 creating some community standard.

:04 Do you recall what the memo says or were you part of
:24 that?
:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
:07 The motion that was made kind of lent itself to maybe
:15 the question of whether or not we should encourage
:28 windmills to be allowed.
:21 But the way you are phrasing it is maybe to restrict
:27 it.
:07 The bottom --
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My whole point is neither.
:06 My whole point is we should study it.
:21 Get ahead of the curve and perhaps have our zoning code
:00 expressly address windmills so we create a community
:24 standard in regard to windmills.
:12 There might be somebody out there who has an acre or
:24 something like that that maybe if they throw up a
:19 windmill it wouldn't impose a burden on their
:10 neighbors.
:25 The flip side, in my neighborhood, throw up a windmill
:09 and you'll probably create a burden on the neighbor.
:00 >> Reality, accessory structures are limited to 15 feet

:22 in height.
:10 If you go through the memo itself, Florida is concerned
:03 a class one location, which the windiest month has a
:03 sustained wind of 9.4 miles per hour.
:06 According to the U.S. Department of Energy, you need
:09 for a viable small wind between 10 and 12 miles per
:06 hour.
:28 Florida, especially our section, just isn't a viable
:25 location with our tree canopy and the way that the
:21 winds are, according to the U.S. Department of Energy.
:22 This just is not a viable location for that type of
:16 energy production.
:15 That's why we're basically not recommending changing
:03 the zoning code.
:03 The other issue is the windmills, the wind turbines
:00 need to be 65 feet or taller to generate any kind -- to
:21 get above our tree canopy and to hit the wind we need
:00 to generate that power has to be 65 feet in height or
:18 taller.
:09 None of the residential districts allow that until you
:06 get into the RM-35 and higher, obviously.
:15 Our commercial districts only allow 45 feet in height.
:03 Within our zoning code now, we don't allow any kind of
:09 height that would even allow this type of turbine.
:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about a cell tower?

:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There's a special provision for that
:09 in the code.
:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's say somebody comes in, they
:18 have a piece of property, maybe an industrial piece of
:10 property and they want to throw up a windmill tall
:00 enough and they are next to the water and they are
:21 windier perhaps.
:21 For argument's sake, if they wanted to do that, would
:12 they have to come in for a variance or special use?
:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Well, industrial general allows I
:04 think 60 feet in height.
:03 Industrial heavy is 75 feet.
:15 If you're in the industrial heavy district, that's
:09 something we could look at.
:21 It would be an interpretation of the code.
:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Residential, they would have to come
:06 in for some special use.
:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: He would have to come in for some
:06 kind of variance.
:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
:03 I was on the other side of the hall at the office
:18 answering some mail.
:21 I apologize for running over Mr. Mulhern's aide and
:25 Mr. Dingfelder's aide on the way over.
:24 I heard windmill and I rushed over.

:15 Although 9.4 is six-tenths short of 10.
:22 That means there is some value to something.
:28 I brought it up because I didn't think it was in the
:15 code.
:25 I appreciate the research you've done, calling various
:06 cities and doing your due diligence.
:12 I'm looking at certain areas of the city, primarily in
:19 open areas where you have an extensive use of
:27 electricity, and it may or may not be factual to do
:09 these things.
:04 Golfers often lie.
:18 They always blame the wind for the ball not going in
:09 the right direction.
:12 And sometimes that's a fact.
:00 But next to the Pippin water plant, there's a lot of
:24 open water, not only for this type of use, if it's
:25 possible and feasible.
:06 I'm not going to expend money on something that doesn't
:01 work or have solar cells if there's again the
:27 possibility of generating at least a savings on them.
:06 And also in the current plant, in the southeastern part
:27 of the city those may be two areas you look at to see
:12 if the feasibility of the wind is over 10 miles an hour
:00 or, because like I said, golfers always blame it on the
:06 wind.

:21 And being a golfers, I'm glad there is a thing called
:21 wind that I can always blame my score.
:27 Those two areas I think are very feasible to study to
:24 see if we can accommodate and save electricity and save
:21 a lot of the things of nature that we need to --
:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
:16 I want to thank you for the report.
:27 Mr. Fletcher, I'm so glad you are in the audience.
:25 I understand that in the next several weeks, we're
:09 going to have TECO franchise agreement come before
:12 Council.
:24 You don't have to answer.
:15 When you bring it before us, I'd like you to identify
:15 if there's any discussion in the agreement on renewable
:00 if the city were to, for example, create -- generate
:24 electricity through solar or wind and what the
:06 situation would be with net metering.
:12 You don't have to answer it now.
:06 Net metering means if we create it and we distribute
:07 it, is it wholesale or retail?
:09 >> Just to respond -- chip Fletcher, City Attorney.
:15 We are getting, hopefully, into the last stages of
:12 negotiations with TECO.
:22 And I'm optimistic that we will be back before you in

:21 not too long a time period.
:27 We are actively protecting the city's ability to engage
:27 in renewable energy activities that may fit along the
:01 lines of all the types of things that you-all have been
:04 discussing.
:00 Certainly we have them at the McKay Bay facility
:10 which is considered renewable source of energy.
:22 Refuse-to-energy facility.
:03 There are other things that the city is looking into,
:18 all those which continues to be options under the
:00 franchise agreement.
:06 And I'm not aware of any interests by TECO to limit
:21 that ability to the city.
:09 So I would think that'll continue and it will be in the
:21 version that you all will see.
:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted, number one, to ask
:18 Mr. Miranda, why did you get rid of the solar panel?
:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, that's a personal thing.
:21 I've had them there about 25 to 30 years ago or more.
:03 I bought that unit from a guy named Scotty.
:21 He was an Irishman, and he was representing a company
:21 called solar heart.
:12 I can tell you what I paid for it.
:00 I got rid of it because of time.
:27 Nature wore out the bottom part.

:18 I had to replace the roof.
:10 When I replaced the roof, the unit, the bottom part
:01 that held the water was completely corroded.
:09 So I had to do my due diligence on my own and remove
:25 that system.
:15 I paid about $2400, somebody in the audience willing to
:28 replace it for 2400, I'll buy it today.
:27 It's over six to seven thousand now as I understand.
:15 I'm still looking to replace that.
:13 I'm still looking to replace the whole electric grid on
:19 the house with solar cells.
:04 So if you all want to lead, let's not be followers,
:18 let's be leaders.
:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Just further to that, it's great to
:04 hear that we are looking into alternative energy, and I
:19 love the idea that I think wind does have to work.
:21 It's working in the Midwest and where we have big open
:10 areas.
:03 If we're going to do wind, solar works on a house or an
:19 individual building basis, but wind is more of
:06 something you can harvest in a big open area.
:12 So I hope we do continue to look into that.
:01 And I think because TECO hasn't really shown much
:03 interest in either of those approaches to alternative
:09 energy, solar or wind, it would be great if the city

:06 started looking into that and became a leader in that.
:13 There are a lot of other cities that are doing it.
:27 And we've got our waste to energy, so that's a good
:10 start.
:21 If we started looking at some other alternatives, we
:06 could become a provider, possibly.
:00 And I think that's a great way to go.
:19 And I hope we are going to continue that way.
:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:03 Tampa City Council stand in recess.
:12 The CRA will --
:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about Ashton woods?
:00 Those folks are here?
:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
:25 Well, the CRA will have a problem then.
:25 It's 11:25.
:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should we go back to that after
:18 lunch then?
:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can go ahead and take up Ashton
:22 woods.
:03 But I will tell you -- how much time do we need on
:00 Ashton woods?
:21 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.
:09 I understand you received a memorandum from Cindy
:18 Miller giving you an idea of where we are on the issue.

:04 We were supposed to go out with the property owners
:00 with Kate O'Dowd who came to discuss this matter with
:24 you a couple of weeks ago, except, unfortunately, the
:00 scare about Fay occurred, so we had to postpone that to
:00 next week.
:22 As I said, I believe you have a memo in front of you
:22 detailing where we are.
:18 These are administrative issues.
:25 We are working through them.
:00 We've rescheduled that meeting for next week.
:25 I didn't see Kate here this morning, and I have kept
:04 her up to date.
:27 We intend to go on the site, delineate the outstanding
:04 issues and resolve them.
:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue this until September 4th.
:12 >>JULIA COLE: I don't know if you need to so much
:04 continue it.
:19 If you prefer, we can come back to you with a report
:15 once we have completed it.
:06 The only other issue I did want to raise for you, while
:12 we call this the Ashton Woods issue, this is not Ashton
:24 Woods and their attorneys who came forward to make this
:13 request, adjoining property owners, they have not had
:12 an opportunity to weigh in on this, and they probably
:16 should have an opportunity to weigh in on this.

:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'd like a time certain.
:15 If you think September 4 is too early, we can do it
:10 later in October.
:06 I'd like to hear it come back for some type --
:10 hopefully final report.
:12 >>JULIA COLE: I don't want to guarantee we'll have a
:10 final report.
:03 It will delineate where we are.
:21 There are other parties involved and there may be
:24 private issues.
:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: September 18th, we have a regular
:00 City Council meeting.
:19 I move we continue this to the September 18th under
:27 staff reports.
:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
:06 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just as a reminder on the morning
:15 agenda remaining, you have items 87, 88, 89 and 90.
:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we have a lot of items remaining.
:19 We need to recess so CRA can meet.
:06 And then we have to come back to take up the rest of
:24 the agenda.
:09 So we stand in recess.
:27 How much time do you need?
:15 Okay.

:15 We have to recess for five minutes.
:09 Five minutes, Council, please be back for the CRA
:24 meeting.
:09 Thank you.
:21 [Recess]
























:09 CRA MEETING

:03 THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 2008
:03
:03 DISCLAIMER:
:03 The following represents an unedited version of
:03 realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
:03 for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
:03 transcript.
:03 The original of this transcript was produced in all
:03 capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
:03 result of third party edits and software compatibility
:03 issues.
:03 Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
:03 proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
:03
:13 >>GWEN MILLER: CRA is called to order.
:27 Roll call.
:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
:16 >> Mulhern?
:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
:00 Before we begin, something big will happen to Mr. Mark
:07 Huey on Sunday.
:07 We just say we hope you have a special day on Sunday.
:10 >> Thank you very much.
:21 That's nice of you.
:12 >> What's the occasion?
:15 >> Birthday.
:10 Turn 40.

:09 >> We'll spare you the song.
:21 >>GWEN MILLER: He's catching up with us.
:24 >> I hadn't sworn in yet.
:27 >> I know we have very limited time when you set this
:12 meeting.
:22 Thank you for making a place in your busy day today for
:03 some important CRA matters.
:09 Per your request, we have approval items only.
:24 So no Powerpoint presentations, no big presentations
:09 for you today.
:12 After the public comments part of the meeting, we have
:01 some reappropriation approvals and some other matters
:24 for you to attend to.
:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public like to
:00 speak?
:12 Any public comment?
:03 Seeing none, you can go to the resolutions.
:03 >> The first four items are reappropriation requests
:27 first for Drew Park, then East Tampa, then the two Ybor
:03 CRAs.
:25 On Friday, we sent you a transmittal that I hope was
:06 helpful in preparing you for these votes where we
:00 explained in a worksheet each of the changes being
:18 made.
:28 They do come to you with the support of the respective

:03 community advisory committees.
:15 We do have the managers preparing to answer any
:13 questions you might have.
:16 We now put it in your good hands.
:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions of council members?
:01 Move the resolution?
:00 >> So moved.
:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
:00 Opposed, nay.
:22 >> Item 5 is the Channel District arts plan.
:03 You have had something that the board has been working
:06 with for the past months.
:24 You've had a couple of presentations from the
:00 consultant, the plan draft came to you last month, and
:01 we are now seeking approval of that plan.
:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move two through four.
:15 >> Yes, the motion was including.
:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All those resolutions.
:07 >> [not speaking into microphone]
:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody want to speak on item 5?
:21 >> Any action on 5?
:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Just approve it.
:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
:19 I think that we would all agree that the report is even

:27 more thorough and complete than we had anticipated.
:28 It's a great report.
:28 The punchline of it is, this report is only as good as
:06 its implementation.
:21 Its implementation will only happen if we have, I
:15 think, somebody making sure it happens.
:12 So I will volunteer as somebody who is really
:25 interested in this to make sure we do the things that
:06 the report suggests.
:22 Because it's going to take -- it's going to take some
:12 oversight.
:00 It will take some nudging, and I volunteer.
:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to take action on that?
:04 She wants to volunteer.
:04 >> Linda has a passion for this and we appreciate it.
:03 It's benefited the planning process a lot, and we look
:13 forward to continuing to work with you.
:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to adopt the report.
:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to accept
:21 the report from the art consultant.
:15 All in favor, aye.
:15 Number 6, ratification of the slate of East Tampa.
:15 Have to add somebody to that.
:07 They need a business person.
:06 >> As you recall, at the last CRA board meeting, we

:00 brought to you the slate for the elections that will
:09 occur in September for the East Tampa community
:06 revitalization partnership board.
:00 There was one opening, and that was the business
:21 opening.
:09 You have one spot dedicated for for-profit business,
:21 and so we have candidates that are before you today who
:12 have applied for that slot.
:13 And I think Ed has a comment to make on that.
:09 >> Good morning.
:03 Ed Johnson, urban development manager for East Tampa.
:07 If I could, if I could use the elmo here, I'll share
:04 with you what we're doing with the election, the slate
:18 of officers.
:13 As you recall at the last CRA meeting, we had several
:19 candidates for ratification for the East Tampa
:16 community advisory committee, and there was one
:24 position that was not filled, and that was the position
:00 of a for-profit business owner.
:06 And we went out and we renoticed the process for the
:18 for profit business owner and we had two candidates
:00 that were received through the city clerk's office, and
:25 those applications I hope are in front of you or you
:22 had an opportunity to review them.
:25 They are Mr. Juan Davis, owner of fast lane clothing,

:19 and Mr. Michael Kelly from point west engineering.
:00 So if both of those individuals did meet the
:24 qualifications and upon your approval to be added to
:15 the slate, they will become additions to the election
:27 process that will take place next month at the
:25 partnership's annual meeting.
:27 And that would round out our 13-member board when the
:12 election process takes place next month.
:18 And what I've done on this item that I had on the elmo
:15 for you, I kind of created kind of a flow chart of the
:07 positions, and we've numbered, as you see on the
:00 bottom, the current board membership, numbers one
:00 through nine of the current board.
:04 There's actually ten on the board.
:27 Mr. Sam Kinsey that's listed on the bottom
:00 automatically falls off prior to the next election.
:19 So that's nine current members who are -- who would be
:00 starting their second term at the end of the election
:22 process.
:04 Then three individuals that applied for the
:13 resident-only position.
:28 And they are number 10, 11 and 12.
:01 Today, both those individuals are approved for the
:18 slate, then when the election process takes place in
:18 September, one of those would be elected for the

:24 for-profit business owner section, and that would
:06 complete the 13-member board.
:13 I know there was some discussion about the categories.
:12 There are five categories, which are displayed across
:00 the top of this document.
:21 Resident, for-profit business owner, property owner,
:10 not for profit and at large.
:16 I've color coded how each one of these members make up
:16 that -- that those categories listed across the top
:15 that would complete our board.
:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are either of those gentlemen here
:09 to speak to us, Mr. Davis or Mr. Kelly?
:00 >> I don't believe so.
:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're picking between the two of
:24 them?
:27 >> No, you're just ratifying that they are eligible for
:21 the election process.
:21 Any other questions?
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move to ratify the slate.
:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
:12 All in favor, aye.
:12 Opposed, nay.
:03 [Motion Carried]
:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In regard to number 7, since we have
:16 such a busy day, I move that we defer that to September

:10 when we have a little more time to discuss it.
:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, question.
:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just to move things along when we
:12 get to September, what I would like to suggest is maybe
:19 we make the area that we would like to take
:10 responsibility for known to the Chairman of the CRA or
:03 something like that.
:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think first we have to get past
:00 the issue that we want to do it.
:21 Apparently there's some controversy on it.
:13 I don't want to deal with controversy today.
:21 >> Thank you, my friend.
:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Huey has a question.
:18 >> You mentioned a September board meeting.
:00 I want to let you know about the items that we have
:00 slated because we do have a busy September board
:16 meeting.
:28 First of all, the budget will be coming to you.
:27 And we'll be getting you the budget booklet in advance,
:24 and we will have a presentation on the budget.
:03 We also are planning to bring John, the head of social
:06 contact, back.
:06 He has his final report ready, and he would like to
:13 brief you on it.
:09 We are planning on doing an update on the Channel

:16 District planning process.
:00 That has made a lot of progress since we last reported
:22 to you, and we want to keep you informed as a board
:18 about that.
:10 We also are anticipating bringing to you the commercial
:04 facade program.
:18 Remember that both Drew Park and East Tampa and Ybor as
:13 well are interested in creating an incentive program
:13 using a commercial facade program.
:00 We have developed that, and we would like to bring it
:18 to you for presentation.
:01 We also have a very important partnership that we are
:25 working on with the Sembler group in the Channel
:16 District that will allow us to move forward on the
:18 completion of a very important piece of infrastructure,
:00 11th Street in the Channel District.
:00 I just listed off four or five significant things in
:00 addition to the budget that we have slated for your
:18 morning meeting.
:06 It's not going to be an afternoon meeting, it will be a
:21 morning meeting in September.
:01 So we've got a good, healthy agenda for you.
:09 And there may be some other things, too, we're also
:24 working on.
:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The good news, September CRA meeting

:28 is a dedicated --
:21 >> Exactly.
:06 We've been on this cycle of having afternoon meetings,
:22 which is harder for us to have that kind of agenda.
:18 We've been saving a few things up.
:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I want to go back to the
:27 East Tampa slate, I want to go back to this because
:04 Mr. Davis and I -- we met yesterday, and I was trying
:25 to point out to him that there was a different
:27 category, and I asked Mr. Johnson to structure it.
:01 So he's done that to show us all the different
:27 positions that the meeting requirement that we laid out
:06 for them.
:21 And this is -- and did you go over this?
:09 I had to step out for a minute.
:18 Four residents category here, we had a for-profit
:22 category, two people there.
:03 Profit only.
:13 Got three in that category.
:18 You have the not for profit.
:00 One, two, three, four, five people in that area and two
:25 at large.
:21 He's broken it down to show us each category.
:24 Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for that.
:13 I think it's very clear and hopefully Mr. Davis can see

:18 this, if you don't have a copy of this, certainly I
:06 hope that Mr. Johnson would make sure you get a copy of
:27 that.
:03 Madam Chair, I want to speak to that.
:06 So that, Mr. Davis, has been answered based on our
:19 discussion yesterday.
:09 The other thing, I also talked to Mr. Johnson and
:18 Mr. Huey about the sidewalk issue, and that's going to
:19 be coming back later on in the strategic plan.
:00 There are questions now about sidewalks in front of
:15 school as to whether it's city property or School Board
:06 property.
:21 So those issues are being addressed.
:28 The thing that's encouraging, though, once the
:19 strategic plan comes forward, it will address some of
:06 those sidewalks, and there will be a plan to implement
:27 them as they go forward.
:12 So I just want to say to you on the record, those
:10 issues that you brought to me yesterday, they have been
:21 addressed or are being addressed.
:12 Thank you, Madam Chair.
:21 >> May I respond just briefly?
:12 I did and I just got when he made his presentation.
:07 But one of the things I did not hear is the staggering
:09 term requirement.

:25 Granted, we've got 13 members.
:10 Granted, they are integrated with the specific five
:06 categories, but come 1 October of '08, who serves for
:06 what term so that adequate preparation can be made for
:06 the upcoming election so that no election would cause
:18 the elections of more than six members during a
:27 particular year.
:04 Majority of your members should be retained at least
:27 for that term if the staggering term is kicked in
:03 properly.
:18 Let me say one other thing, Madam Chair, I understand
:18 the public comment has already been made, when I see a
:15 flock of eagles flying over me, I rejoice because they
:07 represent our national symbol.
:06 But when eagles do what they do, and someone tells me
:27 that manna from heaven, then I have some concern.
:07 I won't say more.
:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, thank you.
:07 >> I would like that to be responded from Mr. Johnson
:21 level and then Mark Huey level and I did consult with
:18 Councilman Scott, and I really appreciate that,
:24 Mr. Scott.
:00 And at least I got something that resembles, but then
:09 it's not complete because they don't have the
:12 staggering terms.

:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the bottom, Madam Chair, it's right
:15 there at the bottom.
:27 The staggering terms.
:15 It's on the handout.
:21 It's in full detail.
:25 >> If I may, one of the sad things about it, I don't
:15 see as quickly as I could used to.
:00 The manner by which these candidates became members of
:18 the slate, to me it was surreptitiously.
:07 I knew nothing about it.
:09 Who am I to know?
:24 The point is, at the local level, staff and the CAC, I
:15 read very carefully your policy on the CAC.
:28 I read very carefully the redevelopment plan.
:12 I read very carefully your rules of procedures, and I
:06 have some concerns, at least at the local level, that
:10 seems to be some areas, as a matter of fact, I got a
:27 pat on my head, but I think you ought to stop.
:01 Thank you.
:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Johnson, would you come to the mike
:27 a minute, please?
:01 For the election, they are going to be electing three
:07 residents, right?
:00 >> That's correct.
:10 Well, the three residents that qualified will have no

:21 opposition, so when the election takes place, I'm sure
:18 they'll just be ratified as being residents for the
:03 resident only slate.
:12 The other one for the for-profit business owner, you
:15 have two that obviously would qualify.
:09 So one of these two would obviously be elected during
:06 the election process to fill that for-profit business
:06 owner slot.
:24 >>GWEN MILLER: What about property owner?
:13 You have two names for property owner?
:09 >> Well, property owners, the two we have highlighted
:24 that came in from last month's applications, they did
:24 not qualify for the two categories that we are required
:04 to fill.
:27 And that was for resident and for for-profit business
:22 owner.
:07 They only qualify for the property owners.
:21 We already have a property owner already on the board.
:21 >>GWEN MILLER: So these two would not be on the ballot.
:21 >> They would not be.
:16 >>GWEN MILLER: On the ballot.
:09 >> Well, they can be placed on the ballot, but we're
:00 not electing for a property owner position.
:27 We're only electing for --
:12 >>GWEN MILLER: If you don't need a property owner, why

:24 would you put them on the ballot if you don't need
:10 property owner?
:06 Why would their names be on the ballot if you don't
:24 need a property owner?
:28 >> We left them here because you approved those
:27 candidates at the last month's meeting as being
:06 eligible for membership.
:22 So when it goes to election, we're only going to then
:00 put on the election ballot when that takes place at the
:22 next month's election process, the individuals applying
:04 for the only two positions that we are electing for,
:06 and that's for the resident only and the for-profit
:03 business owners.
:27 But we left these candidates on here because they were
:04 received through the application process and did meet
:22 those categories.
:07 >>GWEN MILLER: So you had them on the ballot.
:22 I wondered why they were still there.
:22 Okay.
:07 >> If I could address the staggering of the terms as
:22 Mr. Davis is referring to, that's on the bottom of this
:18 handout that I provided.
:06 What will take place in this next election is that we
:12 will be electing three individuals for resident,
:13 because we already have one resident on the board and

:21 one for profit.
:16 That's four folks that will be elected in this 2008
:18 election.
:03 In 2009 election, the current nine members of the board
:18 will automatically come off the board, because they
:13 would have completed their two-year term.
:19 So we would be electing a brand-new group of board
:27 members in the 2009 election.
:07 At that time, it's anticipated that that election
:10 process will take place where the candidates that will
:13 be placed on that particular agenda will run for
:06 one-year terms and two-year terms to start this cycle
:15 of being able to have these staggered terms.
:12 That's what the game plan is going forward.
:18 And then all future -- all future elections starting in
:10 2010 will elect then six members.
:04 Because then you would be in the cycle to elect six
:03 members.
:18 That's how they chose to address the staggering issue.
:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to go back to item number 7.
:21 Mr. Dingfelder made a motion to continue to September,
:12 but September will be a busy month.
:27 So we need to move it.
:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think this is a really excellent
:24 suggestion and I think we should do it as quickly as we

:21 can.
:28 If you think September will be too busy, I'll take it
:18 to October.
:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's one side.
:12 On the other side, I hate to say this, but I don't want
:15 to be put into a position where we approve a slate for
:09 the CRA, and then we appoint ourselves to the same area
:27 that we're there, we appointed a slate to recommend to
:06 us and then we elect ourselves to go to the CRA.
:15 I think right there, there's a legal problem, I don't
:00 know how to answer.
:13 I'm not a lawyer, but I think if I approve a slate and
:06 I'm just talking about me, the other six are entitled
:12 to their opinion, if I approve a slate to represent me
:07 in the city and our CRA and then I appoint myself to
:19 the CRA, I see a direct conflict of interest there.
:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree with you, Mr. Miranda.
:15 If we're going to put ourselves on the committee -- we
:21 don't have a right to tell the CRAs what to do.
:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Dingfelder is not here, and to
:18 his honor that he's not here, I don't want to discuss
:12 it because he's the one that brought it up, and I think
:12 I owe it to him for him to be here.
:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If he's not here, we need to move it to
:01 another agenda.

:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: October.
:16 >>GWEN MILLER: October CRA meeting.
:21 [Motion Carried]
:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Earlier in our meeting, Ms. Janelle
:04 Anson gave us a template for tracking projects that I
:15 thought would be really helpful, and I would like to
:13 put that on our October agenda as well for the staff,
:01 and I'll provide the information that she provided us.
:12 What we have here is very broad.
:28 I think more specific information is good for
:01 everybody.
:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
:04 All in favor, aye.
:19 Opposed, nay.
:15 [Motion Carried]
:04 Any new business?
:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I would like to request or move
:27 that the East Tampa CRA staff provide us with a map of
:06 all the city-owned properties in East Tampa.
:12 I think there's a list available, so I would like the
:12 list but also a map.
:27 And kind of further to this, I think we should be able
:16 to see this for all of the CRAs.
:15 So maybe going forward we could continue to do -- see
:01 that for all the other CRAs, too.

:09 So maybe over the next year, maybe once a month we
:15 could get another one.
:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: East Tampa by September?
:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
:27 All in favor of the motion, aye.
:04 [Motion Carried]
:27 Another information from Council members?
:13 >> Receive and file.
:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to receive
:15 and file.
:04 All in favor of the motion, aye.
:27 Mr. Huey, anything else?
:07 We stand adjourned until 1:30.
:00

DISCLAIMER:
The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.







TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, August 21, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.


[Sounding gavel]
13:36:58 >> Tampa City Council is called back to order.
Roll call.
13:37:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Here.
13:37:06 >>GWEN MILLER:
Here.
13:37:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Here.
13:37:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Here.
13:37:13 >>GWEN MILLER:
We are going to go back to item 42, 43,
44, 45.

We are supposed to move after CRA.
Can I have a motion?
13:37:23 >> So moved.
13:37:24 >> All in favor of that motion say Aye.
(Motion carried).
Now we are going to go to item number 90.
13:37:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Would you like to swear in the
witnesses for item 90?
13:37:37 >>GWEN MILLER:
Yes, I will.
If anyone here is to speak on item 90, will you please
stand and raise your right hand?
Item 90.
(Oath administered by Clerk)
13:38:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
I know this case is continued but I
don't believe there's been a presentation on it yet.
So I'll go through it briefly.
Case WZ 08-91 for the towers of Channelside LLC, 1103
east Cumberland Avenue, they are requesting a 4(COP)
wet zoning which is under the old process.
It is a 4(COP), to sell full alcohol, in the proposed
nightclub and patio.
That area is 13,853 square feet.

Lower level is 9154 square feet and there is an upper
level mezzanine.
If you look at the background information in your
staff report, there is an exhibit "A."
And I have highlighted it on the overhead.
Exhibit A is a 9,154 square feet at the lower level.
And exhibit "B" is the upper level mezzanine which is
4,699 square feet.
What you will note on the first page of the staff
report is that this 4(COP) was previously approved
under ordinance 2005-270 for five retail areas.
And then on page 2 of the staff report you will note
that there was a 2007 ordinance, exhibit "C" and "D"
which approved a 4(COP-X).
And three separate levels for a total of 23,268 square
feet.
There is a list of the alcohol establishments within a
thousand feet there. Were many of them.
Two residential developments within a thousand feet
and of course the Port Authority and U.S. customs
which is the institutional use.
You will note at the bottom of page 3 going into page

4, the criteria section 370 under the old code which
talks about the distance waiver, and the waivers for
the distance separations given that this is located
within the Channel District, which is called out as
one of the entertainment districts.
You have the ability for those restrictions.
There is no objection from staff. This is within The
Towers of Channelside property.
And this is the actual site.
It is the western side of the building.
I think that gives you the best context.
I can show you the rest of the building but I think
you are aware of what that looks like.
This is the side where the site S.we are available for
any questions.
13:40:40 >> Cathy, what's the connection to the residential
side as related to where you are talking about here?
13:40:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
The connection to it?
13:40:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Are they connected?
Do you walk out of this area?
13:41:00 >> I will let the petitioner answer that question.
I have not been inside to see how it's physically

connected in the interior corridors.
But you can see, if you look at exhibit C, this is the
basic footprint with the towers themselves, and then
the portion of the pool deck.
It's on this side of the property and I'm not sure
where the internal connection is but there is a
drop-off/pickup area here. This is where the red bird
pizza is.
There are different entrances.
13:41:37 >> We have done a lot of wet zonings on this building.
It's sort of become a hodgepodge and wet and dry and
I'm sort of confused at this point.
13:41:45 >> There are so many exhibits.
I would ask that you go through them, because there
are many different levels and different pieces of
those levels that are wet zoned.
It's not the entire building.
13:41:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Thank you.
13:42:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
So already 2300 or 23,000 wet zoned
in the structure?
13:42:13 >> Under the 2007 ordinance -- oh, it's 23,268.
I think it's more than 23,268 square feet.

Just one second.
Can I look through it really quick and I'll answer
that in just a second.
13:42:38 >> Sure.
13:42:40 >>GWEN MILLER:
Officer Miller?
13:42:44 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
department.
City of Tampa police department has no objections to
this wet zoning.
13:42:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Have you received any calls for
service here?
Because I received a phone message from residents who
said that they are experiencing problems like broken
car windshields.
13:43:12 >> There have been some calls for service out there.
What's going on street level or within the buildings?
Not a lot of calls for service.
There was some vandalism that occurred recently at the
towers but nothing internally, as far as they have
their own private security on those premises also.
13:43:37 >> Thank you.
13:43:40 >>> My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin

Street, Tampa, representing petitioner, tower holdings
LLC.
They are seeking a 4(COP) in connection with the
property that they own in fee simple that's part of
the overall master plan towers at Channelside which as
you know is a mixed use project that's already
completed at the northeast corner of Meridian and
Channelside Drive.
The subject property is already wet zoned, as Cathy
indicated, 4(COP), so the intention here is to simply
add an additional 1,896 square feet for property to
allow outside seating on the western side of the tower
number 1, which is adjacent to Meridian, applied
purchase, one strip of property from the Port
Authority I guess about a month ago.
So that's the gist of that.
The existing wet zoning pertains to both the lower
level and upper level.
So we are simply adding a little less than 2,000
square feet.
I'd like to give you some documents, and just put
those on the Elmo quickly.

The area right there is where the nightclub is.
That's the outside seating.
What I have on the board and I likewise gave you an
elevation, looking eastward from Meridian toward the
proposed development.
Secondarily, here's a survey sketch, the 1900 square
feet they are adding to the project.
In the proposed development at the property is a
restaurant, nightclub, and I have given you a copy of
their menu.
They are anticipating the grand opening in October.
It's an upscale nightclub.
What we have done here is computer generated depiction
of the restaurant, and it lasts about 15 seconds and
we could kind of go over that.
I think it gives you a lot of insight into the
location of the patio, and likewise the restaurant.
So technical, would you please run the DVD?
Well, here we go.
You can see the patio area actually to the left of the
screen.
I'd like to take credit for it but that's beyond me.

You can see, it's really a cool development.
13:47:12 >> Does the outside include upstairs and offices?
13:47:28 >> The outside is just --
I guess if you are familiar with blue martini, the
outside seating, it's similar to that.
And I think it's important -- John, you raised some
questions about hodgepodge I guess you characterized
it as wet zonings.
A few years ago before it was Connecticut instructed I
handled the wet zoning. What we did through one wet
zoning is wet zoned about four our five spaces and
imposed conditions upon various spaces, there could be
a package store, for example, or restaurant that
couldn't sell package and things like. That so what
Cathy alluded to, what happened in 2007 is another
space in the tower.
Tower one on the north side, the Cumberland side.
They came in and wet zoned independently another
portion of the project.
Okay?
So it's really only been two wet zonings, the one we
handled circa 2005-2006, 2007, and today we are simply

modifying the one from 2005.
And I think it's important to note obviously that TPD
has no problem, and some issues have come up
concerning the towers and the use of some common areas
and things like that, and what we have done through a
series of meetings, and input from residents and the
homeowners association, is we have reached agreement
and these people are here in support, so we submitted
a petition to City Council a few days ago with 26
signatures, convening in early August attended by 26
people and all signed a petition including Betty
Castor.
In any event, there's a lot of support for what's
proposed, and also -- I haven't received any negative
feedback.
And let me answer this question concerning access to
the first floor.
I own a unit there, too.
And there's been some vandalism.
I think primarily because the bottom is not completely
secure, so people walk in, cut through to a hockey
game or something like that, they'll break a car

window.
But we have 24 hour security so they are working on
that.
They have actually tried to enclose more of the first
floor with walls and stuff like that.
So unless you have any questions, I would appreciate
your giving the audience an opportunity to elicit
their support.
13:49:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Does that conclude the presentation?
13:50:02 >>MARK BENTLEY:
One thing I forgot to mention.
Petition and support was qualified with two
conditions, to be imposed which we agreed to, and
Rebecca already drafted an ordinance, two conditions.
One, there be no amplified music, amplified or live
music out on the open patio area.
Number two, there would be no speakers.
And that would be part of the ordinance.
So we are fine with that.
That's all.
Thank you.
13:50:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Any questions?
13:50:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Mr. Chairman?

Mark, two things.
One, you had a bunch of folks, residents sign a
petition.
They asked for two conditions?
13:50:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Yes, sir.
13:50:35 >> You included those in your ordinance?
13:50:40 >>REBECCA KERT:
Legal department.
Yes, I did receive those, and if it's the will of
council I have a substitute ordinance for you to
consider with those two conditions.
13:50:47 >> No speakers outside and no live music outside?
13:50:52 >> Speakers shall be prohibited in the exterior of the
wet zoned property and the playing of amplified or
live music is prohibited in the exterior of the wet
zone property.
13:50:59 >> And the other question, mark, Mr. Bentley, is you
are showing us, you provided us a nice menu which
leads to the obvious question, why not a 4(COP-R)?
13:51:12 >>MARK BENTLEY:
Okay, because the sales of alcohol
will exceed the sale of food.
But one thing they are willing to do is, because there
was a considerable debate about this, is modify that

to a 4(COP-X).
So there would be no package sales.
13:51:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Can you do that?
13:51:34 >>REBECCA KERT:
I will have to redo the ordinance.
You do have an appeal I believe at the end of the day.
I can probably get it done later during the appeal.
13:51:42 >> That would be a good compromise.
We do have a letter of objections.
13:51:46 >> Once again, councilman Dingfelder, it's just a
straight 4(COP) as we speak.
Thank you.
13:51:51 >> Not the outside space.
13:51:53 >> No.
That's correct.
I mean, the balance of the 22,000 square feet.
13:52:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Could you provide another copy of
the petition?
I don't seem to have one.
Thank you.
13:52:14 >> You want the report?
13:52:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
The petition he says 23 people
signed.

13:52:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Oh.
In here.
13:52:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
It's probably on the back of that.
13:52:25 >>> I can make a photocopy of mine.
13:52:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you.
13:52:42 >>GWEN MILLER:
Let me see how many people want to
address council on this petition.
How many people want to address, if you will raise
your hand so I can tell.
How many?
Okay.
How many of you all are in opposition?
Anyone here in opposition?
Okay.
And those that raise your hand, you are in support?
Do you just need to speak?
Okay.
I was just trying to expedite our schedule.
But if you want to speak, certainly come on down.
You have that right.
13:53:19 >>> May I ask how many are in support, raise your
hands?

13:53:29 >> They did that, yes.
But if you want to come down and state your name and
address for the record and say you are in support,
that's fine.
Come on.
13:53:43 >>> James Erwin, 1211 east Cumberland Avenue, tower
one of towers of Channelside.
I'm very much in support of this project.
Mr. Solomon and his group have been very accommodating
to the residents.
Any concerns that they have have been addressed.
So far as to fly the architect in with finished
samples and do a presentation for us which was
mentioned earlier.
I just think that at a time when we look around and
see empty retail spaces, developing Channelside area
is inspirational to see a project going forward.
And of the quality that it is.
So I am very much in support of the project.
13:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Next speaker.
Thank you, sir.

13:54:26 >>> Troy huffman, 1211 east Cumberland Avenue, unit
96, I'm also a resident in tower one where this will
be.
I am also in favor of adding this.
I think it will be -- it's very nice, very
aesthetically appealing to the building, doesn't take
away from that.
And I basically copy everything Jim had said.
I agree wholeheartedly and I think we need more
outside seating like this in the Channelside area.
I think it will bring a lot more activity down to the
area.
So I am in support.
13:54:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you, sir.
Next speaker.
13:55:02 >>> Julie Hautman, and I also live at the towers of
Channelside in tower two, which is 445.
I'm also here in favor of the project.
And with one of the people who met in the meeting, the
ongoing meetings that we have had, over the time and
continue to be in support.
Thank you.

13:55:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone else?
13:55:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Move we close the hearing.
13:55:34 >> Second.
13:55:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Did you need anything else?
13:55:39 >>> No, thank you.
13:55:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I really like the X, the no package
sales.
So I think we need to hear formally from you.
13:55:49 >>MARK BENTLEY:
We formally amend our application
before the council from 4(COP) to 4(COP-X).
13:55:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
So that means it will be brought
back --
13:56:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Later.
13:56:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
You already have.
13:56:04 >>REBECCA KERT:
I need a motion to have the ordinance
revised to 4(COP-X) and we will try to bring it back
before the end of the meeting.
13:56:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
There's a motion to close.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
(Motion carried).
We need a motion then.
13:56:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I move to bring it back with the X.

I compliment you, Mr. Bentley.
I heard a lot of discontent awhile back, not about
this but about other things, and you obviously have
convinced the neighbors who are important to us that
this will be a very positive addition.
13:56:31 >> Second.
13:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded.
Seconded by councilman Caetano.
(Motion carried).
That will come back at what time, the end of the day?
13:56:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Mr. Chairman, the meeting is closed.
There will be no additional testimony.
For those people are here now, the second reading for
that at that time will be --
13:56:55 >>THE CLERK:
The second reading will be September --
September 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
13:57:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you very much.
Council, we need to go back and take up the other
items that we have.
Item 87, 88 and 89.
Motion to open.
13:57:22 >> So moved.

13:57:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
(Motion carried).
13:57:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Item 87, the second adoption public hearing.
Anyone wishing to address council?
Anyone wish to address council on item 87?
This is the comp plan.
13:57:45 >>RANDY GOERS:
Land Development Coordination.
I would ask if you could open up the public hearing
for 87 and 88.
My presentation will be on both.
13:57:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Opened up on all of them already, 87,
88 and 89.
13:57:59 >>RANDY GOERS:
I do have a presentation, I believe,
that will be loaded.
There we go.
To give you a brief overview, there were some
questions I think that came up after the first
adoption hearing but I wanted to take you through the
plan amendments, and hopefully answer all questions,
and you can have your next vote.
13:58:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Are you addressing the questions that

was raids?
13:58:31 >>> Yes.
13:58:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Who raised them?
13:58:33 >> We can address that if we move forward on it.
13:58:36 >>I want to make sure we don't address the whole plan,
but address the questions that were raised at that
meeting.
13:58:42 >> I'll see if I can get our technology to work.
Maybe the guy in technology can help me move it along.
There we go.
Here's the location of the two plan amendments.
Next slide.
There we go.
PA 07-02 is the parcel that is highlighted, 26.7
acres, going from light industrial to CMU 35, has 13.6
acres of environmentally sensitive area.
It required to complete a traffic study and wetlands
determination.
At the transmittal hearing petitioner agreed to limit
the development to 15 dwelling units an acre to
provide an easement in the southern part of the
property in the clear zone, and to attenuate for

noise.
The second parcel is PA 07-08 is 25.5 acres going from
light industrial community mixed use, 35, has 8.6
acres environmentally sensitive area.
It's under the comprehensive plan, is limited to 10
dwelling units per acre.
Even though it is seeking 35 it is limited to 10.
Must attenuate for noise, required to determine the
wetlands determination.
And to complete a traffic study.
14:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Before you move that, I understand Councilwoman
Mulhern is the one that raised the questions and she's
not going to be here, I understand, is that right?
14:00:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I have a question.
14:00:28 >> Can we deal with the specific questions?
14:00:30 >> That's way was trying to get at, yes.
Okay.
14:00:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I received a photograph of this
site from Mr. Steenson, the first we looked at.
And my concern when we looked at it initially is it
appeared to be pretty heavily treed, and I was

concerned even though these are broader concerns and
ultimately we are going to get down to how much of the
land is developable, and that's based on what is low,
what's high and how many grand trees are around.
But while in this, where we are right now, I don't
know if a property owner has any responsibility to
protect these grand trees on the property, but that
would really affect how much of it is developable and
the proposed density which is pretty high, 15 units to
the acre, you know, one or two acres that are
precluded from development because of grand trees that
make a pretty significant difference in terms of the
total projected development.
So I don't think the area is necessarily appropriate
anymore for light industrial but I don't think it's
appropriate for dense residential, and I wonder if in
the staff's formulation you looked at the existing
tree canopy, and have an estimate of what the total
number of dwelling units that heir developable on this
property are.
Because I think the whole property is about 25 acres.
14:01:54 >> Haven't done that type of analysis.

When we did land use change, looking at it from, is it
the appropriate use for the property?
When the appropriate --
14:02:04 >> Okay.
What I'm saying is, I don't think that light
industrial is appropriate.
But I think that perhaps a lesser density residential
would be appropriate.
And since you said you haven't analyzed the trees, and
I think did the MacDill weigh in on this?
Did they have an opinion about this?
14:02:25 >> Yes.
14:02:26 >> What is their recommendation?
14:02:29 >>RANDY GOERS:
Well, MacDill is opposed to it, but
I could answer all those questions in the context.
Okay.
What we see on the map here is the red is the clear
zone, the MacDill Air Force clear zone.
Green is the flight path to give you an idea where the
properties are located.
Keep in mind at the end of the run way, at the very
bottom of the slide, so even though it's close to the

clear zone it's 3,000 feet away from the edge of the
runway.
If I can get the next slide.
These are the noise contours.
Basically, what MacDill does to reduce noise
impact, you can see the surrounding property on the
left of your screen is what we call the 65 noise
barrier, and that's the threshold for noise
attenuation.
Property owners agree to attenuate for noise.
The property on the right-hand side, they are required
to attenuate for noise.
Next slide.
Planning Commission staff report looked at all of
these issues, that ability with MacDill, the
adjacent land uses, clear zone restrictions, the noise
concern, the loss of industrial land, wetland
projection and consistency with the comp plan.
The report after looking at these issues found the
plan amendment consistent with the comp plan.
Next slide.
March 30th, Planning Commission hearing, staff

submitted their report and recommendations.
MacDill Air Force Base objected to the map
endment based on noise concerns, safety and
compatibility with the operations.
At the end of that public hearing the Planning
Commission found it consistent with the comp plan and
recommended approval.
Next slide.
April 10th public hearing, the Planning Commission
presented their report along with the Planning
Commission's recommendation for approval.
MacDill appeared at that public hearing and
submitted their letter and objected to the plan
endments for the same reason -- noise,
compatibility.
Petitioner agreed to the stipulations for PAO 702
which was reducing it to 15 dwelling units an acre,
attenuating for noise, and providing an easement on
the southern portion.
City Council approved the plan amendment and
transmitted the amendments to the reviewing agencies.
Next slide.

These are the agencies that reviewed the plan
endment.
Next slide.
In general, these were the concerns that we received
from the different agencies.
There were questions on military compatibility.
The compatibility with MacDill Air Force Base, the
proximity, the noise, consistency with the comp plan,
wetlands, environmental, transportation analysis,
historical resources, and involved some industrial
land.
We did the same items that the Planning Commission
addressed in their staff report.
So there's questions in some cases of clarification
and allocations, there were strong objections.
This is the S summary of when we looked at the
comments from all of the agencies.
The comments as we looked in blue are primarily
questions of concern or clarifications, comments that
were listed in red made stronger objections,
MacDill has been consistent throughout the entire
process, objecting to amendments because of their

proximity to the base, and noise concerns and so
forth.
DCA has more of a stronger objection, not so much in
the plan amendments themselves, but because in their
mind that we have not adopted military base
compatibility policies yet.
And in not doing that, they feel it's not possible to
assess a plan amendment for consistency.
We responded to the state comments in our report.
That is one of the things you will be asked to
approve.
Next slide.
What we tried to show is we do have a military base
compatibility criteria.
That criteria was adopted in 1991, I believe, at your
last 18 study which basically says plan amendments can
be approved if the maximum residential density does
not exceed 10 dwelling units an acre, noise impacts
are mitigated, access to MacDill Air Force Base is
not impeded but the AP's guidelines are in the
consistency, that a MacDill representative is
afforded the opportunity to review and comment, and if

compatibility can be achieved through reduced
densities.
So using this criteria, the plan amendment has been
gone through this review.
None of the -- the plan amendment in the APZ, ten
dwelling units an acre, the noise impacts are going to
be mitigated, the access to MacDill, neither one
cuts access to MacDill.
Guidelines were considered.
Guidelines were considered by the Planning Commission,
in their staff report.
Based on their review of the guidelines, they did not
feel that they were inconsistent with our comp plan.
MacDill was afforded an opportunity to review and
comment.
Again they provided those comments to the staff, to
the Planning Commission and City Council.
In the case of PA 07-02 the property owner asked for
35 dwelling units an acre.
He has agreed in a stipulation of 15 so he has reduced
the amount that he's asked for.
So the DCA, we have tried to assert to them that we

have criteria in the plan since 1990.
Legislature passed requirements in 2006 and there are
criteria has superseded it.
May not be a as strong as other communities.
Remember you asked the city to look at the JLUS
recommendations and that was an example of very
stringent compatibility, and the community did not
want to go that far into the restrictions.
So the fact that we couldn't make it any stronger, our
criteria is pretty much what is in the comprehensive
plan moving forward.
So we tried to let DCA know, saying this is the
criteria we are moving forward with, and we hope that
is sufficient for them.
Next slide, please.
Here's basically the whole total picture.
You see what's designated environmentally sensitive in
relationship to the clear zone, to the noise areas.
As you move forward to PA, 07-02 development, the site
clearly to the north, moves out of the noise areas,
out of the environmental areas, out of clear zone
areas, PA 07-08 is in an area which is surrounded by

residential development, and again, if it's site add
way from the environmental areas and than the noise
areas then it would be consistent with the
requirements in the comprehensive plan.
And the final slide.
As the plan amendments, City Council has the decision
either to adopt the proposals which are recommended,
you can adopt with changes, or not adopt the proposed
plan amendment.
You have that same option with all plan amendments.
So with that, if there's any specific questions that I
haven't answered with the general presentation.
14:09:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to make sure this no N no way hampers, when
they look at military brass looks at opening and
closing, that some of these bases throughout the
country, that this in no way jeopardize it is
existence of MacDill Air Force Base.
I think it's safe to say this is one of the reasons we
are not going to keep it open.
14:10:04 >>RANDY GOERS:
I can't really speak for the decision
makers at BRAC.

They will look for how the community is working with
their military installings in achieving, and helping
them preserve their military operations.
It's the mission they are looking for.
To the extent that development encroaches or impedes
in that mission is one of the things that they'll take
into consideration.
But I can't say it has the same impact.
The development has been there for MacDill.
It's been for years.
And the mission has been preserved.
14:10:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you.
Randy, you said that I think it was DCA said not more
than ten units to the acre, and what's put forth is 15
units to the acre?
14:10:49 >> The PA 07-02, they are outside of the APZ zone, the
accident --
14:10:57 >> Doesn't that cut across a portion of the property?
14:10:59 >> The clear zone cuts across a portion of it but it's
not part of that requirement of ten dwelling units per
acre. In fact in the clear zone there should be no
residential development and petitioner has agreed to

that portion of it would be where the easement would
go.
As long as no development goes in the clear zone I
think we are okay.
14:11:19 >> Have you done the math to figure out how much
development is possible within the first area?
14:11:23 >>> I don't, but I could probably do it fairly
quickly.
If you go through their environmentally sensitive
areas, and PA 07, there is 26 acres, 13 of it, 14 of
it is about ESA.
That would leave another 13 acres at 15.
Well, 220 maximum.
220.
And there will be other site requirements that have to
be met.
14:11:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
And you didn't factor in whether
they are grand trees because you. Taken a look at
that.
14:11:55 >>> No.
When I look at the site plan, again, have to see where
they are at and what that does to setbacks.

14:12:00 >> Are any existing grand trees protected until the
development occurs?
Has any moved in the last six months Pa that would not
be --
14:12:09 >>> All regulations are in the speck today.
Regardless if this plan amendment is going forward or
not.
14:12:16 >> Thank you.
14:12:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Additional questions?
Anybody from the public?
14:12:27 >>MARK BENTLEY:
I represent the petitioners with
respect to items 87 and 88, which is PaO2,
international ink, the property adjacent to Interbay
outside the base I.want to address a couple of
questions that were raised by council.
As Randy indicated, we filed for CMU 35, the existing
designation is LI which would allow to 1.6 million
square feet.
Forget the wetland issues.
1.6 million square feet of office or retail.
So the only issue is the introduction of residential
and to what degree in this area.

Council heard and approved a rezoning last week of the
contiguous property to the east, 438-room hotel, and I
think MacDill's only concern at that time, they
sent an e-mail to staff was that they shouldn't share
the proper noise attenuation techniques, and my
client's property is not in the clear zone either, nor
was the hotel.
We have agreed to noise attenuation, two units per
acre and convey at no cost to the city an easement
across the southern roughly seven acres give or take
for the upper, I guess you call it, Tampa Bay -- not
upper.
The Tampa Bay greenway.
That's it.
Okay.
So that's a stipulation as well.
And if you have any concerns, we have got permits out
there to clear and Dick Seel from Sarasota, a highly
environment respected environmentalist, we had a
wetland determination, we had permits for clearing for
some easements and species and things like that.
So if there are grand or protected trees that's done

through the review process.
With regard to PA-08, that's what they call the APZ-1.
MacDill does.
Your staff is proposing to call of the just
generically a flight path N.any event 95% of the
property in APZ-1 is residential, and number 2, most
of it at a higher density than we are proposing.
If we weren't doing this plan amendment right now,
there's a policy in the comp plan that caps any
residential irrespective of whether they have CMU 35
or EMU of 60 to 10.
Most of that area is 10.
Okay.
So we are suggesting 10.
And we intend to do a mixed use project there.
Same issue with respect to that property.
We could do 1.7 million square feet, office, retail
development, and the only issue is introduction of
residential.
Now, I think it speaks volumes that MacDill, when
they objected to these plan amendments, that was
pretty long time ago.

We have come a long way down the path.
And since we have modified these two petitions to
reduce the density and agree to these other
stipulations, you haven't heard any objection from
MacDill.
They are not here today.
They were here last time and they didn't voice any
objection when they were in attendance at the first
public hearing.
So if you would like to hear from Mr. Seale, he can
lay the whole thing out.
We know every square inch of wetland.
EPC signed off.
SWFWMD.
They have been out there several times.
EPC determined there's no illegal clearing.
And we got all the permits and everything, Ms.
Saul-Sena.
But that's kind of it in a nutshell.
I think we have beaten this to death, Mr. Chairman,
and I'm prepared to resolve the noise issues.
I don't think it's necessary but I'm prepared to do

it.
14:15:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Motion to close.
14:15:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
One quick question.
How many units did you say you all can build there?
14:16:02 >>MARK BENTLEY:
I don't have my calculator but it's in
the range of about 275, something like that.
And you saw the aerial.
The development is going to be toward Interbay.
Obviously that's jurisdictional lands to the south and
there's nothing we can do with the property there.
Theoretically about 280.
Here again I don't have my calculator.
I have a different number than Randy because I know
how many acres are upland.
But we are in the same ballpark.
14:16:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Motion to close.
14:16:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
So moved.
14:16:31 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
14:16:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Council Miranda?

For 87 and 88.
14:16:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Was that motion to close both 87 and
88?
14:16:47 >> Yes.
14:16:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
And 89 is still open?
14:16:50 >> Yes.
14:16:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Going to read 87?
I move on the comprehensive plan for second reading,
an ordinance amending the Tampa comprehensive plan,
future land use element, future land use map, for the
property located in the general vicinity of inter bay
Boulevard abutting MacDill Air Force Base between
Lois Avenue and Dale Mabry highway from light
industrial L 1 to community mixed use 35 CMU 35 and
potential environmentally sensitive areas ESA
providing provided for additional conditions of
development, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
conflict, providing for severability, providing an
effective date.
Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
Yes?
14:17:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Mr. Bentley, I appreciate the land

you are giving for the trail.
I appreciate your going to respect all the wetland
setbacks.
I still think it's a lot of density for a place that's
just away from a landing strip and I think it's going
to drive the people who live there craze which the
noise, so I can't support it.
14:17:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Record your vote.
14:17:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I'm sorry, I pushed the wrong
button.
Clear it.
Vote again?
14:17:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Record your vote.
14:18:33 >>THE CLERK:
Not everyone has voted.
14:18:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Everyone record your vote.
14:18:40 >>THE CLERK:
The motion carried with Saul-Sena voting
no, and Mulhern being absent at vote.
14:18:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
88.
Councilman Dingfelder.
14:18:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
We closed it?
14:18:53 >> Yes.
14:18:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'll move the following ordinance

upon second reading.
An ordinance -- an amendment to the Tampa
comprehensive plan, future land use element, future
land use map in the following general vicinity of Dale
Mabry Highway, Sterling Avenue and south of Interbay
Boulevard from light industrial 1.5 to community mixed
use 35.
As I state add couple of months ago I'll support this
just because of the heavy intensity use that's already
on there.
I think a CMU 35 is actually a reduction.
14:19:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Second?
14:19:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Second.
Let me speak to that.
I agree Mr. Dingfelder.
That's twice today.
Let me also say that if somebody buys something and
doesn't realize the Air Force Base is right next to
them, they really have a problem.
14:19:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded.
Seconded by councilman Miranda.
Yes.

14:19:51 >>CLERK:
Number 88?
14:19:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
88 was an ordinance on second
reading.
14:19:59 >> I read the top half.
Let me try again.
Ordinance for second reading.
An ordinance amending Tampa comprehensive plan, future
land use element, future land use map, for property
located in the general vicinity of Dale Mabry highway,
Sterling Avenue and south of Interbay Boulevard from
light industrial LI to community mixed use 35 CMU 35
and potential environmentally sensitive areas ESA
provided for additional conditions and development,
providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
providing for severability, providing an effective
date.
Thank you, Marty.
14:20:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded.
Record your vote.
14:20:34 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no,
and Mulhern being absent at vote.
14:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We are on item 89.

Item 89.
Is petitioner here?
14:20:46 >> Tampa Preservation.
This is from 1931.
The structure is located at 302 north Willow Avenue,
known as the dykes building and currently own by
decorative arts center of Florida.
This building was constructed in 1926, in the area
known as Dobyville.
I am going to go through the facade.
This is the front facade. This faces Willow. You
notice the decorative parapet.
The double hung wood windows and the typical
storefront.
You see the aerial so you get a better understanding
exactly where it's at.
Kennedy is to the south.
As you go up, you have north A, north B.
This is on the corner of north B and Willow.
To the west you have Oregon.
To the east you have New Port, university of Tampa
would be in this location, in this direction over

here.
Going to the rehabilitation taking place.
Once again this is the south elevation.
You see the original features still in place with the
step parapet.
Decorative, the double hung windows, the storefronts
were boarded up at that time.
After rehabilitation.
The parapet, the double hung windows, and the
storefronts were reintroduced.
On the storefront elevation they have a secondary
entrance.
And then just two final photos.
This is prior to rehabilitation on the inside.
And then after rehabilitation.
You see that the volume was kept, the expansive
ceiling, the floor height, the interior brick walls,
the double hung window, double hungs were kept in
place.
It does meet the secretary standards.
That's staff presentation.
14:23:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Questions?

14:23:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
It looks like a beautiful rehab and
we appreciate the work they did.
Back a few slides, were those temporary signs on the
sides of the building?
Looked like plastic signs.
14:23:31 >>> If you go back to the Elmo.
This is a sign that remains.
This sign had been removed.
They were temporary in nature.
14:23:42 >> Good job, anyone who was involved.
14:23:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone wishing to address council on
this item?
14:23:50 >> Move to close.
14:23:51 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
14:23:52 >>GWEN MILLER:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to move the ordinance, following
ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
the historic preservation tax exemption application
relative to the restoration, renovation and
rehabilitation -- okay, first reading, rehabilitation
of certain property owned by decorative arts center of

Florida, LLC, located 302 north Willow Avenue, Tampa,
Florida, based upon certain signage, providing for
notice of property appraiser of Hillsborough County,
providing for severability, providing for repeal of
all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
date.
14:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Yes.
14:24:37 >> Second.
14:24:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I want to compliment the developer.
This is such a great example of redoing a building
that's kind of been overlooked and renovation.
14:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It's been moved and seconded by
councilman Dingfelder.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
Opposes?
(Motion carried).
14:24:55 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern
being absent at vote.
The second reading of the ordinance will be September
4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:25:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay, we'll take our 1:30 items.
All persons that are going to be addressing council

this afternoon, you need to be sworn.
Will you stand, please?
If you are going to be speaking to council on any item
this afternoon.
If you are going to talk to this council you have to
be sworn in.
(Oath administered by Clerk).
14:25:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Item 95.
Motion to open.
14:25:43 >> So moved.
14:25:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Can we open all of the items?
14:25:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Open all the items between 94 and
104.
14:25:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Respectfully, Mr. Miranda, if you
could hold 104 separately, whereas the others are all
wet zonings.
14:26:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, item 94 can't be heard it's my
understanding.
95 through 103.
(Motion carried).
14:26:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
94 is removed from the agenda?
14:26:17 >> Yes.

14:26:18 >> Cathy Coyle, land development.
14:26:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Did you swear in the witnesses?
14:26:24 >> Yes.
Everybody has been sworn.
14:26:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Petitioner requesting a special use
approval for alcohol sales on our 4(COP-X), beer, wine
and liquor, location 4139 east Busch Boulevard in
conjunction with a recently renovated hotel and
restaurant.
There are 99 rooms on-site.
The site is currently zoned commercial general.
The 4(COP-X), beer, wine and liquor, consumption on
premises only.
The current code requires 197 parking spaces.
The site is existing.
It is as-built, provides 114 parking spaces, was built
under previous regulation for parking.
Just to give you some context of where it is.
It's on the south side of Busch at the intersection of
tangerine and Busch.
The large hotel, there's an apartment complex to the
west.

This is the kind of outparcel parking lot from Busch
Gardens to the east of Busch Gardens.
The site is -- it has been recently renovated.
Page 2 of the staff report staff did find it
inconsistent based.
Under evaluations we do evaluate these alcohol permits
requested by current code for parking standards as
council said in the new regulations.
They are objecting to that simply because there is
such a large reduction in parking but as I noted it's
an as-built situation.
Note number 2, Land Development Coordination did find
it consistent based on the criteria for a large venue,
and the 4(COP-X) definitions.
Page 3 and 4, you can see the distance separations
between other alcohol establishments, residential
establishments, and institutional uses.
Page 4, 5 and 6, the general criteria for council to
consider in approving or denying a special use permit.
And then on page 8, you will note that this was
previously wet zoned as a 4(COP), not an X but was
previously wet zoned as a straight 4(COP) which

reverted to dry status in 2005.
Probable coincided with the closing of the hotel.
14:29:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Officer Miller?
14:29:03 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
department.
I have been sworn.
The City of Tampa police department has in a objection
to this wet zoning. There was some concern by Temple
Crest neighborhood association who contacted me about
some concerns in reference to this wet zoning.
14:29:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Petitioner?
Petitioner?
14:29:36 >> I'm one of the petitioners in the hotel and the
unit actually when we bought it, I guess, prior to us
buying it, had been operated with the restaurant and
the sports bar, in the same complex as the hotel, the
99-unit hotel.
But it had been shut down before we bought it.
And then it went from the wet to the dry while we were
renovating the hotel because we really didn't have a
use for it during that time.

Since then, the hotel is fully operational, and we are
underway with the lease tenant to use that as a sports
bar and a restaurant to support the 99-room hotel
facility.
14:30:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I just want to clarify in my mind
and the record.
Are we saying that we are not wet zoning the whole
property, but a certain portion of the building?
Let me try again.
14:30:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Do you want to come and address the
question, please?
14:30:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
The request for alcohol sales is the entire structure,
the hotel and the restaurant portion.
14:30:59 >> The entire structure?
What about the parking lot?
14:31:02 >> Not the parking lot.
Just the building.
14:31:03 >> Not the sewer line or anything else?
14:31:05 >> No.
In a trees.
In a dumpsters.

Just the building.
14:31:08 >> Fine.
14:31:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Any other questions, council?
Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
matter?
Anyone else from council?
Anyone from the public?
14:31:20 >>GWEN MILLER:
Move to close.
14:31:23 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
14:31:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Councilman Dingfelder, did you have a
question?
14:31:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Yeah, I was hoping not to close
because I needed to ask the petition area question.
14:31:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Move to reopen the hearing.
14:31:36 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
14:31:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Thank you.
Sir, if you could come forward.
The voter registration sent us some letters, e-mails,
that are part of the file and I don't know if you had
a chance to see them or not but they have expressed

some concern about it.
Personally, I don't have a problem with the
restaurant.
What is it, a restaurant?
Sports bar, and then a motel with it, right?
14:32:06 >>> Right.
There's a motel right next to there, a restaurant, for
use for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
And then next to that will be the sports bar.
14:32:15 >> And what is the intent to serve beer and wine -- or
all liquor, I guess, at both the restaurant and the
sports bar?
14:32:24 >>> Yes.
14:32:24 >> And why have you included the hotel and the motel?
14:32:28 >>> Because you may have patrons who might want to do
room service.
14:32:37 >> With beer and wine.
We have had this issue before.
I don't know, sometimes, obviously the neighbors
aren't here, but some of them expressed concern
because it's a daytime meeting and they had to work.
14:32:51 >>> I can tell you that there's a separate entrance

for the sports bar from the outside.
There's also a separate entrance for the restaurant.
And a separate entrance for the building.
The motel.
14:33:02 >> You are planning on room service as part of what
you are doing?
14:33:07 >> Yes.
We would like to.
I mean, that's how the motel used to operate before,
with the restaurant.
We definitely have clientele that may want to phone
into the restaurant and say they want to eat into the
room.
14:33:22 >> But the X doesn't allow sales to go off-site,
correct?
14:33:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
What's the nearest residential
area there?
14:33:36 >>> All around us pretty much is all commercial.
We have a business across the street from us, down the
street, to the left and right.
14:33:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Sir, sir, you can't have a dialogue
with the audience.

14:33:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Your staff report actually reflects having a
separation with residential.
This is an apartment complex immediately to the --
sorry.
This is an apartment complex to the west.
And you will note that to the rear of the property,
this is a residential back here to the south and then
Busch Gardens to the north and then the little
shopping center.
This is 46th right here.
So this is the onson noble, the cold gym is right
here.
14:34:40 >> But did the prior restaurant have a wet zoning?
14:34:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
The entire property was a 4(COP)
which allowed the alcohol consumption as well.
They are asking for an X.
14:34:52 >> I understand.
I want to make sure that everybody understood that,
prior to that there was a wet zoning on the property.
14:34:57 >>> Correct.
14:34:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Including the rooms?

14:35:00 >> Yes.
It was a hotel.
14:35:03 >>> About three years ago.
14:35:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you, sir.
14:35:07 >>GWEN MILLER:
Move to close.
14:35:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Second.
14:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Do you have a question?
14:35:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Yes, for staff.
You said there was some concern by neighborhood
organizations.
14:35:23 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
Yes, the Temple Crest neighborhood association
president called me and had some concerns.
And I think e-mailed council, also.
14:35:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you.
14:35:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
For the record I did receive two
e-mails regarding this site, I believe.
What I was bringing up, the past is the past.
I'm just -- I believe this is close to the famous
hotdog place?
14:35:56 >> Across the street.
14:35:58 >> And then to the left you have that.

And you used to have the property and the next can
restaurant.
What I'm hearing -- and I stated this this morning --
knife objection to a restaurant having liquor.
A sports bar, I can understand that.
And we had some of these come up on 50th or 52nd,
four or five months ago, that they wanted wet zoned,
the whole -- I don't know what percent of sales you
are going to sell from your establishment to somebody
who is staying in your motel.
I'm not telling you that I'm an expert in hotelism.
But I can tell you that if you are going to check into
a motel and drink, you are going to bring your own
bottle, or your own -- because you ain't going to pay
$80 for a bottle when you can get 80-ounces out of a
bottle at 50 cents an ounce so it doesn't make
economic sense especially in these times of history.
So for us, to continue doing this, I just don't see
the value versus the exposure that we have.
And I am not trying to change anybody's maned on
council.
I would never do that.

But I'm saying that I don't see the value in my vote
being for the whole structure with only apart of that
structure really lends itself to alcohol, which means
a sports bar.
I have no problem with that, or the restaurant.
And I have in a problem with that.
But when you start talking about all the 99 rooms, I
don't know what to tell you.
I don't understand the value to the property which had
alcohol.
It might be a deterrent to you that people see things,
they don't see with kids, they don't come back.
I just don't see the value in the business sense of
it.
And you might be hurting yourself instead of helping
yourself.
That's my suggestion to you.
And I see some heads nodding yes.
I guess those are your partners.
Or your ex-partners, I may say.
14:37:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you.
Mr. Miranda, I agree with everything you said, and I

think that based on what you said, I would like to
move to reopen the public hearing to allow -- I
thought we closed it.
Okay.
I would like to allow the Peter opportunity to amend
their request for just the restaurant portion and not
the room portions because I won't be able to support
the room portion.
14:38:30 >> Petitioner, would you consult with your former
partners?
Certainly.
14:38:48 >>REBECCA KERT:
It's in your discretion, it's up to
you whether you want to approve or deny. This I would
remind you that you have had several hotels in the
downtown area and other areas that will be coming in
Channelside that may be coming before you in the
future.
And you will have to treat everyone the same.
And I know you are aware of that.
I'm cautioning in that.
14:39:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Excuse me, but you have always
pointed out to us that every case is unique in

proximity to residential is unique.
14:39:13 >>REBECCA KERT:
It is.
14:39:13 >> Child care is unique.
14:39:15 >>> It is.
And so I'm saying --
14:39:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I understand.
14:39:20 >>> Just please be aware to use the criteria of the
special use.
14:39:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I understand.
14:39:25 >>> Because as do you have other hotels come forward
that you have approved in the past so just base it on
hotel use.
I just want you to be cautious about it.
14:39:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
So your request is based on the
residential and churches?
14:39:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
My request exactly like you stated,
Mr. Dingfelder.
You and I thinking alike so long now the last eight
hours.
14:39:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Just to echo what Ms. Kert said.
If you focus on page 4 of your staff report, 27-269,

those are the general standards for the special use
request itself.
Items A, 1 through 5.
So that will help you in framing the motion.
14:40:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
14:40:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Do we have to hear from the
petitioner?
14:40:12 >>> Yes, sir, I have considered consulted with our
partners, and based on your input, the focus is really
to be running the sports bar as well as the
restaurant.
The only thing we were looking for is the convenience
for the hotel clientele to be able to order from the
restaurant and things like that.
But if it appears to be something that, you know, in
your foresight you don't think it would be appropriate
for our clientele, then we are willing to drop that
request.
14:40:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Let me say right next is an
apartment building.
I think I'm right in saying that.
And because of 27-269 A, 1 through 5, the proximity to

residential and apartments which is residential,
that's why I asked this question and you so kindly
agreed to have that, right?
14:41:00 >>> Yes.
14:41:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Okay.
Thank you.
14:41:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I believe, council, it will have to
be continued --
It has to be continued, I guess, until we do an
ordinance, is that right?
14:41:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
It's not just the ordinance that needs to be redone.
Survey itself needs to be redone, the legal
description needs to be rewritten to carve the hotel
portion out of it.
So it's properly described.
14:41:21 >> Do that next week?
14:41:23 >> It's not up to us.
It's their survey.
14:41:26 >>GWEN MILLER:
I have a question for Cathy.
Cathy, you said with the hotel, how do you mean?
Because the restaurant is in the hotel.

What are you talking about?
14:41:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
The restaurant is -- it all one
building.
The old name was as it's called the Safari.
The Safari lounge.
This is the entrance to the hotel and this is the
entrance to the restaurant portion.
14:41:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
There was a giraffe outside there
years ago.
You're laughing.
I'm serious.
My mind is coming back to me.
14:42:09 >>> Hopefully they captured him and took him back
being to Busch Gardens.
14:42:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
There was a giraffe that was there.
Right?
14:42:18 >>GWEN MILLER:
You have to explain to me.
You said what the hotel was wet zoned but the
restaurant is inside --
14:42:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
No, you see the restaurant is not
inside.
Restaurant is adjacent to by common walls.

14:42:32 >> So you can't go through the restaurant to the
hotel?
14:42:34 >> Is there an interior connection?
14:42:35 >>GWEN MILLER:
You can't go through the restaurant to
the hotel?
14:42:38 >> yes, I think we are saying carve out the rooms.
What goes to the rooms.
14:42:48 >>GWEN MILLER:
That's what he's requesting.
14:42:50 >> That's what Ms. Saul-Sena is suggesting that you
can't take it back to your rooms.
14:43:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Because it's residential and you
have the neighborhood close in proximity here.
And I'm not trying to speak out of order.
14:43:09 >>GWEN MILLER:
I'm just saying, if I not package, it's
a restaurant --
14:43:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
But they are going to have room
service to the rooms.
14:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
The issue at this point is the
petitioner.
So I guess the question of the petitioner, are you
willing to take it back and amend your petition based
on what you are hearing today?

14:43:28 >>> Well, when we came here originally, obviously, we
were really interested in having the full, to have our
clientele have the ability to do the room service.
But if it is a major objection, then we will say that,
you know, no liquor wine should be served.
14:43:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, I count three votes right now
against your application.
With the amendment at least.
14:43:54 >>> We are willing to go back and amend what has to be
necessary, if you believe that that will suffice for
us to be able to run the sports bar as well as the
restaurant.
The advantage is that we do definitely have separate
entrances.
From the main entrance of the hotel, you can go to the
restaurant.
14:44:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Councilman Caetano.
14:44:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
If we don't approve the rooms, he
won't have any control if someone wants to bring in a
bottle or case of booze and drink it there.
But if he has control over the rooms, I think we have

better control over the whole thing.
14:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'm not trying to debate my council
member from district 7.
But I believe that is -- no one can control that, not
I, not the property owner.
You can still buy something at a high rate and go to
your truck and take out a case of booze if you want to
call it that and take it to your room.
You can do that with or without.
What I'm saying is that I believe we should not
encourage the thing of selling alcohol through the
whole building when the whole building in essence is
not a lounge and not a sports bar, and it's close
proximity to the residents right N next door, you have
an operation that is a dwelling of sorts that houses
individuals that live there.
Apartment buildings.
That's the only thing that I'm saying.
I'm not saying anything else.
I've always voted and will continue to vote, providing
it's not a child care center that wants to sell
alcohol and things of that nature, that these people,

the good people here, have the opportunity to have the
rate to sell alcohol.
That's not my intent to deny.
14:45:54 >>> Our intent was the property when we bought it was
in shambles.
14:45:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I said that earlier.
Past is the past.
I have to look to the future.
And that's how I feel.
I'm not apologizing.
That's just how I feel.
14:46:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
If you want to amend, how much time do
you need?
14:46:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
New survey.
14:46:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
A week?
14:46:21 >>> Let me find out just to make sure.
14:46:23 >>> We went through a fair amount of effort to get
this thing resurveyed and so on, and quite a number of
expenses.
Are you requesting that we would have to redo all the
paperwork?
I was just trying to understand.

What is necessary?
14:47:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
If you go to the overhead.
Catherine Coyle, land development. This is the survey
of the building.
The wet zone survey that describes it.
The issue right now is everything in blue is what the
request was.
What the surveyor is going to have to go back and do
is carve out the actual portion that is the restaurant
and the sports bar and that legal description is what
will have to substitute in the ordinance to the city
clerk.
And that's what council will take under consideration.
14:47:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
So it's basically a line.
14:47:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Wherever that line S.i don't know
the formation of the wall.
It's not as easy as just drawing a line.
14:47:39 >>GWEN MILLER:
What you are saying he would have to go
into the hotel from the restaurant.
We have to close that door.
14:47:43 >>> He doesn't have to close it.
Alcohol can't go beyond that door.

It has to stay within the confines of that restaurant
and sports bar.
And just to clarify for hotel use.
There's no sales of alcohol in any of those rooms.
No refrigerators with a mini barring, nothing like
that.
14:48:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
How much time do you need, sir?
Two weeks?
Three weeks?
14:48:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, you have a meeting on
September 4th and a meeting on September 18th.
14:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
September 4th, can you get your
architect to redraw that?
14:48:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Or September 18th.
14:48:26 >>> September 4th.
14:48:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Move to continue to September
4th.
14:48:30 >> Second.
14:48:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
At 1:30 p.m.?
14:48:36 >> Yes.
It's been moved and seconded.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.

Opposes?
Okay.
14:48:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
You have to amend your plan.
14:48:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Item 96.
14:49:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
V 08-46.
The request for a 2(COP-R) beer and wine sale in
conjunction with a restaurant.
Way want to say up front, just so you know, on this
particular case, as in the previous case, the new
regulations require that the petitioners come in and
show compliance with the current parking standards.
In this particular case the staff report was written
from the site plan dated July 8th, 2008, which is
the one that you have in your hands.
As of yesterday, I just noticed in the file at
3:37 p.m. on August 20th there was a new site plan
submitted which I'm presuming addresses the parking
issue.
But you will notice on the staff report, waiver number
1, section 27-242, reducing the required number of

parking spaces from -- and it says "unknown."
On the site plan that was submitted and that was
reviewed for the staff report, the parking calculation
was based on the old code, not the new code.
For a restaurant use it's based on occupancy of the
building.
They had it based on seats.
Which we weren't able to determine at that point
whether or not there was a parking reduction that was
needed from council.
So just to prepare you for this one you can certainly
hear it.
We haven't had a chance to evaluate the new site plan
as of yet.
The ordinance that's on file is not complete.
So you can certainly hear this during the first public
hearing, and if you so choose to approve this, or wish
to approve it, we would actually have to continue this
a week for the ordinance to be drafted and for us to
evaluate the site plan to give you the final opinion
on it.
But I'll go through it really quickly if you would

like.
The request is for a 2(COP-R) beer and wine, location
3644 West Kennedy Boulevard, in conjunction with a
restaurant use.
The building existing contains approximately 3,000
square feet.
I note the current parking ratio of a quarter of a
space per person based on the life safety code.
There are 19 spaces on-site, and that is for both
uses.
There are two buildings, 3642, 3644 is this location,
and there are 19 shared parking spaces, and then there
are dumpsters on the side facing and accessing
Sterling.
14:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Ms. Coyle, let me raise the question
with my colleagues.
I to understand if we go through this hearing today
we can't even take a vote?
14:52:05 >>> That's correct.
You would have to continue to the next week.
14:52:08 >> Why are we going through this?
14:52:10 >>> That is why I prefaced it.

14:52:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
There are folks here?
Or just the petitioner?
Mr. Chairman, see if there's other people here.
14:52:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Is anyone else here from the public to
address this petition?
Anyone else here?
14:52:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Why don't we continue it then for
two weeks?
14:52:31 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
The only difficulty we have is they
are trying to get open for a holiday. This is an
ethnic restaurant, an Ethiopian restaurant.
And there is a major holiday that occurs on the
9th of September.
14:52:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
State your name, please.
14:52:50 >>> My name is Azeb Bezabeh, from Ethiopia.
We have a new year which will be September 12th,
right on the holiday.
14:53:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me ask staff.
I mean, you are telling us we can't take a vote today.
So this won't even be first reading.
Is that right?
14:53:13 >>> That's correct.

The ordinance has not been prepared.
Site plan came in yesterday at 3:37.
I haven't had a chance to look at it.
You could continue it one week.
I don't know if that would give enough time for a
second reading.
I think the second reading would be September
11th, I believe.
But I'll let the clerk clarify.
14:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
So the second reading will be
September 11th?
14:53:33 >> The holiday is the 12th?
That will work.
14:53:35 >>GWEN MILLER:
That will work.
14:53:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Move to continue for one week.
14:53:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
You don't have a meeting next week.
14:53:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
We have a morning meeting, don't
we?
14:53:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
No, you have a workshop.
14:53:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We could do it the 4th.
14:53:51 >> The second reading would be the 18th.
14:53:57 >>GWEN MILLER:
Do it in the workshop.

14:53:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I move that we schedule this at the
end of our workshop.
14:54:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
The only problem, we have to keep in
mind, we won't have a quorum for that workshop.
There will only be four people here.
14:54:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I want to get my bearings straight.
This became a donut shop?
14:54:25 >> It was the java joint.
It was a coffee restaurant shop.
They already have their construction permits.
And one of the confusing issues that we are entering
into now going with a special use is that they have
already been approved by the construction services
center, but not reviewed and approved by the zoning
and development office.
And we wouldn't have that issue.
It's going to pop up a lot, where you have
differing -- different processes that we are going
through.
I mean, if somebody could perhaps revise our
ordinance.
I know the staff hasn't had a chance to look at it.

But we only got the comment fairly recently on the
report.
And the surveyor took their time.
They responded very late in the process.
I'm not blaming the city staff for this.
But we are in an area where we are entering into
differing codes.
They already have their construction permits and they
are way under way.
14:55:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
But the problem, though, Mr. Michelini
is this.
Staff brought forward a petition, and it is my
understanding more than one that's not ready to go.
I have a problem with that.
Because we sit here, we have all these petitions, we
are going to spend 20 minutes or more on this and it
don't mean anything.
14:55:42 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
Mr. Chairman, I'm not debating that
issue.
I'm just saying what can we do to accommodate them so
that they can get open by the 12th?
14:55:53 >>GWEN MILLER:
We made a motion to do it next week.

14:55:56 >> The motion, Mr. Chairman, to set this -- --
14:56:05 >> She can't go down to the corner and buy the stuff.
It has to come from a distributer.
14:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, the best we can do then is take
it up on the 28th, and you have two workshops that
morning.
14:56:24 >>GWEN MILLER:
After the workshop.
14:56:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
After the workshop.
11:00.
14:56:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
You have a workshop at 11:00.
14:56:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
So make it 11 and see where it
goes.
14:56:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
There's going to be a lot of
people.
14:56:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
10:50.
14:56:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
It's the T bar ranch.
14:56:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me speak.
You have a workshop.
The transportation workshop supposedly will last two
hours.
We really scheduled for three hours.
We cut to the accommodate the 11:00 workshop.

Okay.
It's going to be four people.
I have a plane out.
I have a plane out about 12:30.
So I'm just letting you know that I'm not going to
miss my flight, okay?
And you all are going to have four people here that
morning.
I'm flying back in for that workshop.
I just want to be clear.
14:57:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I'm really glad you are going to be
here and I would like to accommodate these people.
I don't think this is going to be complicated.
I would like to move we bring this up at 9:01, that we
ask whoever is in charge of the prayer make it a short
prayer.
We'll be done by 9:05.
I move that we hear this next week.
14:57:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
We don't want to do that.
I understand the intent is to, Mr. Chairman, to take
this up as soon as we do the prayer and the pledge of
allegiance, and do that.

I understand that, and I concur with that.
14:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me raise a question with staff,
will we have everything ready for that on next week,
the 28th?
14:58:06 >>> By then I believe we should be able to.
14:58:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Now, yes.
14:58:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, my recommendation would be
to make this 9:00 and make the motion that it appear
first on the agenda after the invocation.
14:58:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
But I want to speak to this.
I want to understand that that means if this petition
goes a length of time, that pushes everything back,
and you may lose a quorum in the last workshop.
I want to point that out.
That's the motion on the floor.
14:58:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, also since there was
no meeting scheduled for that evening, I might be
leaving for Auburn, Indiana.
There's an electric car for sale there.
There's a motion all in favor.
Opposes?

Okay.
14:58:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
What's the other case?
14:59:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
I was going to bring that up
actually.
Item 101 and 102 both have a similar parking issue.
14:59:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
101 and 102 are similar?
101 and 102.
Both of those are not ready?
14:59:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
101 had a similar parking
calculation based on the seats so we were unable to
determine the parking calculation, and 102 as well.
We have no revised site plans.
It is what it is.
It's just the ordinance wasn't prepared.
14:59:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
So we need to continue both of these
items then?
14:59:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
We can hear from petitioner.
14:59:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Yes, we are going to hear but the
point is --
14:59:52 >>> The ordinance is not ready.
14:59:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We don't have everything we need.
So in essence, to hear the petition today is

fruitless.
15:00:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Except you have some community
people that are hear for those.
15:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
But again if you go through the whole
process, you still are starting all over again when it
comes back.
I just want everybody to understand that.
15:00:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
You can close the public hearing
for purposes --
15:00:14 >>GWEN MILLER:
Move to open item 101 and 102.
15:00:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
They are already open.
Let me hear from legal counsel on this again.
Legal?
15:00:22 >>> What is your question, Mr. Chair?
15:00:29 >> The question is, if we go through the process
today, in essence, first reading does not begin until
I guess our next meeting, is that right?
15:00:40 >>> Yes, if you heard the entire hearing today, then
would you need to continue it over to another date to
allow for first reading or for denial of it.
At this point, what my understanding is, is that on
these two cases, it's a little different from the one

you just had where you had a revised site plan.
We still don't know what parking waivers they need.
They still have not submitted that information so they
will to submit that information.
Could have a public hearing on everything else but
would still have to allow additional public comment on
the parking issue because we don't know what waiver
they are requesting and the applicant will be required
to submit that information.
15:01:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
Rebecca, consistent with what you
just said, you closed the public hearing except for
the limited purposes next week of the parking issue.
So when petitioner, staff, anybody in the public
speaks, we could limit it just to the parking issue so
it not reopening everything.
Well.
15:01:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, I'm sorry.
But the issue is, we are having three public hearings
versus two public hearings.
Is that right?
15:01:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
We do that sometimes.
15:01:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, I just want to bring to your

attention, Mrs. Marshall came in and this is relative
to the last case that was continued and may have to be
brought back for discussion.
This is item number 96, I believe it was.
15:02:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
96?
Okay.
15:02:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
It's been brought to my attention
that council will not be meeting till the end of
September 11th.
The CRA meets at 9 a.m
Which means that if council passes this on September
11th at second reading, item 96, it will not go to
the mayor for her signature until the 12th.
So, therefore, if council wishes to continue this at
any of these for second reading on September 11th,
it will require council setting a special called
meeting which would have to be the notice opposing,
the clerk would have to cover that in a second
meeting.
I just want to -- Ms. Marshall came in to inform me of
that.
15:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER:
Can we recess CRA and do that and go

back to CRA?
15:02:57 >> Well, let me just say, what we are doing here now
we are beginning to make a whole lot of adjustments,
and I'm going to tell you, once you start doing this,
everybody else is going to want the same -- I'm
telling you.
You open up a whole new issue here.
15:03:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, now I'm agreeing with
you.
Let me say this.
And I hope this ain't taken out of context.
I cannot gauge anything that's on the agenda based on
religion or origin or sexuality or race or holiday or
whatever.
It's come -- it's come to these agendas on the time
that you apply.
I can't help it if you applied at that time.
You should have applied maybe 30 days before.
But maybe you didn't buy the building or the operation
or the lease 30 days before.
And I agree, what we are doing here is setting a
precedent for this chamber, and good people that are

here listening to this, coming back and say, well, you
did it in August the 21st of '08, why aren't you
doing it to me?
I don't want a disclaimer against no one.
So what I'm saying is I have compassion, I understand
what's going on.
But at the other side you have to look at the flip
side for early action.
There's a reaction.
15:04:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
That's right.
15:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
And we are here without no action
because we are getting it from both sides.
So I am not opposed to that.
In fact tomorrow we are going to get it from both
sides.
But what I'm saying is that these things have to be
according to what we have in line.
I would try to work this thing out the best we can,
with the abilities we have to serve the public.
But in the meantime, you have had the public hearing
waiting on something that's on the agenda that's not
ready to go and still being held hostage to some

degree.
15:04:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
And my concern is in the future how
can we staff, Ms. Coyle, how can we make sure this
don't happen in the future that these items are going
to come to council if they are not ready?
15:04:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
This is the first cycle where we
have had a full batch of them and frankly it was a
glitch in the system because under the rezoning
process -- and this actually occurred when you changed
the regulations.
Under the rezoning process between 90 and 105 days to
get a rezoning through, about three months.
When the motion was made to change the regulations for
alcohol permits, you restricted us between eight and
nine weeks so we cut a month to five weeks out of the
process to keep it similar to the wet zoning process.
It very much shortens the time frame between the
development review committee meeting and the time that
they resubmit the site plan.
DRC meetings for these cases were about three weeks
ago when we gave the comments, three to four weeks ago
when we gave the comment to the petitioner on these

two cases we just didn't get responses.
Now granted they shouldn't have come forward.
We in the process since it's shortened right after
development review committee meeting we scheduled them
for hearing.
Under the rezoning process, we wait till we get a
revised site plan because we know that they have met
the requirement.
This process is just very, very short.
And it's hard for to us check.
But I think we are going to be able to fit it in the
next cycle. This is the first big cycle.
15:06:07 >> So we won't have these in the future coming like
this?
I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that
doesn't happen, yes, because it does make it
confusing.
15:06:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It puts us in an awkward situation,
too.
15:06:17 >>> The difference between the two, I would say, is
that the lady, the Ethiopian restaurant, petitioner,
did submit a revised site plan, and that certainly in

a week or so I think we can provide the ordinance and
get it done.
These other two, there is no revised site plan so we
don't even have anything to evaluate for just to
continue it for a week, I don't know that we would
still have the time to do that.
So I would say a week wouldn't be enough and I would
hate for you to rearrange for whole schedule for that.
15:06:42 >> Let's hear from petitioner.
15:06:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Which item are we talking about, 96?
15:06:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
No.
I'm going to leave 96 alone.
It's gone.
15:06:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
The question of 96, I just want to be
absolutely clear, council, that it will not be signed
by the mayor, because there is no City Council meeting
until 6 p.m. that night.
15:07:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, the issue was, I think council
said bring it to the CRA meeting, but --
15:07:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
And that cannot be legally done.
15:07:12 >>GWEN MILLER:
Recess?
15:07:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Cannot be legally done unless you

today by motion set a special called meeting for that
one particular case, which will then require to be
adjourned, the clerk come in, do the switches as you
did today.
15:07:27 >>GWEN MILLER:
I will do the motion.
I make the motion.
15:07:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
15:07:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
For what time on the 11th for a
special called Tampa City Council meeting?
15:07:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
11:30?
15:07:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
What tame does CRA -- set it for 11
then.
15:07:47 >>GWEN MILLER:
At 9:00.
15:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
11:00 is fine.
15:07:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
11:00.
15:07:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
There is a motion that we set the item 96 for a
special hearing for council at 11 a.m. on what's that
date?
What day is that?
On the 11th?
15:08:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Assuming that the does pass on first

reading when it comes back to you.
15:08:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
Opposes?
Nay.
I vote no.
15:08:14 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Scott voting no.
15:08:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Specifically items 101 and 102 are
the cases I don't have a revised site plan.
I don't know if you would have to continue it that
short a time.
15:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me go back to 96.
So 96, for our next Thursday morning, and then again
on the 11th, right?
In the morning.
And at that point it's up to the mayor whether she
signs it or not, right?
Okay.
On 101 and 102 we need to hear from petitioner.
Petitioner, 101.
15:08:57 >>> Joseph Diaz, 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.
Very briefly, when this petition was first filed, I
didn't file this petition.

This petition then went to staff, to have a meeting
back on July 3rd, and my understanding that
everything had been approved.
At 6 p.m. on Monday night, I have an e-mail sent to
me, the staff report and advised me of the problems
that were existing with the data table on the site
plan.
Have been was closed on toss.
At 8:30 yesterday morning I faxed the staff report to
the surveyor at Phoenix surveying and told them, look,
I'm being told now that there are problems with the
site plan, pleas get ahold of staff and work it out
and see what needs to happen.
My understanding is, I then spoke within the surveyor,
tells me you put a call into Catherine Coyle.
I don't know if they spoke.
Unfortunately, I didn't know about this problem until
after 6:00 on Monday night.
My office was closed on Tuesday.
And I couldn't remedy the situation.
So I understand this particular site was a previous
restaurant, has a parking capacity of 180 spaces.

As submitted even though it's under the old occupancy,
the required space is something like 111, 112, I
believe.
But under the lifeline code that computation hasn't
been made.
And I don't know if Kathryn got a call or spoke to
somebody from Phoenix yesterday.
I don't know about that.
But I wasn't aware of this problem until Tuesday.
15:10:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
If we are going to get into the merits of the case, do
you wants me to address those items?
15:10:41 >> No.
Way want to see is what the council wants to do.
Do you want to hear the petition and then come back
and hear it two other times?
That's the issue.
15:10:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, legally, if we get a
legal response and it's taken in chronological order,
and we are really on 97.
But on 101, 102, if legally they tell me we can hear
it, close it, render in a decision based upon the fact

that it's not all in, that's what I hear, I don't
really know, then I am not opposed to hearing it.
I would imagine some good people are here today.
I don't want to make them come back.
Maybe they can send a representative back to listen to
what the outcome is.
But certainly in today's society there's $200 in
gasoline rate here I'm looking at.
15:11:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
All right.
Then we have to come back.
Okay.
102.
We are taking these in terms of the continuance.
15:11:40 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
102 can be moved to your normal
meeting date.
And I think you have got September the 4th.
10 a.m.
Then we'll get the revised materials to you.
15:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
September the 4th?
15:12:01 >> Yes, sir.
15:12:02 >>GWEN MILLER:
Continue to --

Let me hear from the public.
Anyone here to address item 102?
Anyone here -- need to address 102?
Do you have a problem with the continuance?
We are on item 102.
We are going to continue this item.
15:12:16 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
It's an existing restaurant.
15:12:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
15:12:19 >>GWEN MILLER:
Move to continue 102 to September
4th at 9:30.
15:12:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded.
Seconded by --
15:12:26 >>GWEN MILLER:
9:30.
15:12:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
9:30 tough second reading.
Did you want it 9:30 or 10:00?
15:12:33 >>THE CLERK:
The first motion was at 10 a.m.
15:12:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
The first motion was 10 a.m.?
15:12:38 >> 10 a.m. is fine.
15:12:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
Saul-Sena.
(Motion carried).
Okay.

We are back now to item 97.
15:12:51 >> I thought you said you didn't object to that.
15:12:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Well, we are at the end of 101.
I said what are we going to do with 101?
15:13:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, you will not be able to
close the public hearing, if I understood correctly.
You will not be able to close the public hearing.
It will have to be continued.
And then pending on the issues that are remaining, it
would have to be heard an additional tame on first
reading.
15:13:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Right.
The parking issue.
97?
Okay.
Item 97.
15:13:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
I'm hoping this will be fairly
straightforward.
They are requesting a 2(APS), package sales for beer
and wine in conjunction with a pharmacy retail store,
CVS, there are 69 parking spaces available.
Only 39 are required by code.

You will note on page 2 of the staff report, four
alcohol establishments within 1,000 feet.
They are a restaurant and one 7-Eleven adjacent to the
site.
Tampa Palms condos are also within a thousand feet.
No institutional uses.
You will note pages 4, 5 and 6 the special use
criteria. Staff had no objections to the request.
I'll show you the intersection of Bruce B. Downs and
commerce palms drive.
This is the point of Tampa Palms complex where there's
a red lobster and Olive Garden to the north.
Thank you.
15:14:34 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
department.
I have been sworn.
Police department has in a objection to this wet
zoning.
15:14:43 >>> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa.
I have been sworn.
Here on behalf of the CVS store.
Again the request is for 2(APS) package bare and wine.

Here to answer any questions.
I'm not aware of any opposition.
15:14:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
Anyone in opposition?
Anyone in support of this petition?
Okay.
15:15:06 >> Move to close.
15:15:07 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
15:15:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I'd like to move an ordinance
approving a special use permit for alcohol beverage
sales, large venue making the sale of beverages
alcohol by more than 1% by weight not more than 14% by
weight wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
wine in sealed containers for consumption off premises
only at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of
land located at 6206 commerce palms drive, Tampa,
Florida, more particularly described in section 2
hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein waiving
certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

conflict, providing an effective date.
15:15:57 >> Second.
15:15:58 >> Moved and seconded.
(Motion carried).
15:16:02 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Mulhern and
Dingfelder being absent at vote.
Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
the 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
15:16:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
98.
15:16:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Case V 08-48 located at 4010 and 4100 Boy Scout
Boulevard, 4(COP-R) on premises in conjunction with
restaurant uses.
This is the MetLife site, went through rezoning
recently.
Here's the aerial on the overhead.
Just to remind you, this portion they are asking for
the alcohol sales is the front of four locations on
your site plan located in wet zone A, B, C and D, for
the retail and restaurant uses.
There are three waivers associated with the request

noted on page 2, 4 other alcohol establishments within
a thousand feet.
One residential property within a thousand feet.
And the institutional use is actually the City of
Tampa property which is 410 feet away.
General standards and criteria on page 3, 4, 5 and 6
for your consideration, I will note on page 7, way
would like stated on the record, which we can have the
petitioner correct between first and second reading is
that under a large venue request for alcohol sales, if
there is no full kitchen in a restaurant use, they do
have to state the business hours of operation.
The petitioner has advised us verbally that there are
full kitchens in all of the units.
So either they need to place the hours of operation on
the plan, or state on the plan that there are full
kitchens.
Either way they can put on the record and we can
certify the site plan between first and second reading
there. Were no objections verified.
15:17:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Officer Miller?
15:17:51 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.

City of Tampa police department has no objections to
the wet zone.
There is some known objection from the Carver City
neighborhood association, and they may be here to put
in their comments.
15:18:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Petitioner?
State your name and address for the record.
15:18:13 >> Sue fur my, 501 west Euclid Avenue, Tampa.
We are here today as the Cathy pointed out.
15:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone here in opposition?
Anyone here in opposition of this petition?
15:18:30 >>CHAIRMAN:
Move to close.
15:18:33 >>: Second.
15:18:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Wait, a quick question.
This looks beautiful.
Is there going to be a pedestrian access on your site,
because you are going to have office buildings, you
have the restaurant.
15:18:42 >>> It's all interconnected.
You can walk from the hotel to the restaurants to the
office buildings.
And for the record I do need to put on there that this

is a restaurant, licensed restaurant.
They will have full kitchens.
We will modify the site plan to so note they are so --
So all the items have been outlined by Ms. Doyle?
15:19:03 >>> And we agree to the staff report, yes.
15:19:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Now, anyone here in the gray area?
Anyone here don't know whether you support it or not?
Okay.
Motion to close?
15:19:17 >> Second.
15:19:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
And a second.
(Motion carried)
Okay.
Councilman Caetano?
Read the ordinance, please.
Right here.
15:19:34 >> An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful
the sale of beverage containing alcohol regardless of
alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
consumption on the premises only in connection with a
restaurant business establishment at or from the

certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4010 and
4100 Boy Scout Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
waivers as set forth herein, wavering certain
restrictions as to distance based upon certain
findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
conflict, providing an effective date.
15:20:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
I do hear a second?
15:20:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
15:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
Opposes?
Okay.
15:20:25 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Mulhern and
Dingfelder being absent at vote.
Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:20:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
I want to recognize the mayor from
Temple Terrace.
Mayor, good to see you today from Temple Terrace.
Joe Affronti.
All right.

Okay.
15:20:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
On the previous petition on Boy
Scout Boulevard the petitioner was able to get this
into the file.
Could we receive and file for that?
15:21:04 >> Yes.
Motion to receive and file.
15:21:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
So moved.
15:21:07 >> Second.
(Motion carried)
15:21:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Petition V 08-61, 5149 Adamo Drive.
I did decide the site plan I gave you there is a suit
page 6 of the staff report.
There was a typo.
You can see that there were no objections to this
particular request.
This is a request for a 2(APS) package sales beer and
wine only in conjunction with retail goods store and
gasoline sales.
The site is located like I said at 5149 east Adamo,
zoned CI and IH industrial heavy.

Area is comprised of 313 square feet, 18 total parking
spaces on-site, only 14 required by code.
You will note there is a Circle K store, and alcoholic
beverage store within a thousand feet, no residential
or institutional within a thousand feet.
And as in previous reports, pages 2 through 5 of the
special use.
This is the corner of 50th and southeast corner of
50th and Adamo.
Just north of the Crosstown.
There were no objections from staff.
15:22:17 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
There are in a objections from the City of Tampa
police department.
15:22:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Petitioner?
15:22:22 >>> Rebecca Johns.
I have been sworn.
201 North Franklin Street, suite 2000, representing
petitioner Hess mart, a typical Hess gas station.
If you have any questions.
15:22:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone here in the public wish to
address council on this item, in opposition?

Anyone here in opposition?
15:22:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Move to close.
15:22:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Second.
(Motion carried).
15:22:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Councilman Miranda.
15:22:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Change the format, I see.
Move an ordinance allowing a special use S-2 for
alcoholic beverage sales, small venue making lawful
change alcohol more than 1%, 14% by weight of wines
regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS)
in sealed containers only at or from that certain plot
or plot of land, as more particularly described in
section 2 hereof approving waivers set forth herein
waiving certain restrictions as to distance providing
for repeal of all ordinances in conflict providing an
effective date.
15:23:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
15:23:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:23:42 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Mulhern and
Dingfelder being absent at vote.

Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
4th another 9:30 a.m.
15:23:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
For the record, councilman John
Dingfelder had to leave to go home.
He's ill, not feeling well.
For the record he will not be here the rest of the
afternoon.
Thank you.
Petition 100.
15:24:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
I have been sworn.
V 08-67.
5109 east Fowler Avenue.
First being to allow maneuvering within the
right-of-way of commercial vehicles.
The second three are the distance separations.
Page 6 of the staff report sites there are three
alcoholic establishments within a thousand feet.
One residential property.
And two institutional uses within a thousand feet.
There are 25 -- 24 parking spaces provided on-site.
Only 23 are required.

The alcohol establishments, there is approximately
3,808 square feet.
Building does reach 28 feet in height.
Transportation did find it consistent on page 2 of the
staff report, but the maneuvering for these vehicles
is required on-site, on private property.
There are three parking spaces on-site located to the
west that do not meet the current standard.
Also, the table labeled original parking credit needs
to be removed from the site plan, and number 2 needs
to be removed.
There are no waivers permitted to the transportation
technical manual so it's just some clarification on
the site plan.
Solid waste did find it inconsistent.
There are some notes that needed to be added to the
site plan.
Just for reference, I included them in the staff
report.
They did send us diagrams as to where the dumpster
needed to be moved to.
You will note that attachment 1 shows the current

location, and they did show the truck maneuvering into
each location, and what happened, it does encroach
into the area within the right-of-way with the curving
and the grass area.
What happens is that if they move to the this location
in that Spates -- and I noted earlier there are one
space additional, there's an extra space on-site. If
they move it into this location on page 4, it actually
meets -- solid waste just movement of the dumpster and
I believe some additional notes and waivers needed for
transportation.
Those are the inconsistencies found.
There is currently a wet zoning on-site as well for a
2(COP-R), and they are requesting a bump up to a 4.
This is for the square one.
It's a little dark, the picture.
If you have any questions.
15:26:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
This is called square one but they
are round burgers.
15:26:50 >> I have never been there.
15:26:52 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
department.

We have no objections to this wet zoning.
15:26:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Petitioner?
15:27:01 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
I'm here on behalf of the
petitioners, Buchman Italiano partnership.
The issues have been waived by the manager of the
transportation department.
We provided them with a copy of that letter.
And a copy of the site plan that showed that those
maneuvering, all the technical standards including, I
have a that I can certainly provide to you as well.
And copy of the site plan where they signed it, and
approved the configuration of what you have on the
current site.
This project was recently permitted.
It was built.
It went through construction services.
And this is one of the issues that I spoke to you
about earlier where you have conflicts between the
staff reviewing these internally for wet zonings,
versus the construction services staff, which is
already permitted this project.
When to not want to move the dumpster.

It been approved, built and constructed in accordance
with the plans, and we have the waivers in place
already, so we don't think that that should be an
issue either.
And we are respectfully requesting your approval.
This project started off -- and I don't know if you
remember this or not.
This is what the building used to look like.
And this is the award that was given to the building
preservation award for retrofit and renovation.
It received an award for what they did with this
project.
It's a remarkable restoration project.
And I think that we should not be held to those
requests being that the staff is asking for.
15:28:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We need to hear from legal on that.
15:28:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Are they picking up the garbage
there now?
I don't know what's going on there.
15:28:49 >>> I gave them both.
15:28:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
The letter that I'm seeing, it not in the file.

You can certainly submit it.
All the changes that I referenced and the notes that
needed to be added and the dumpster being moved, some
can be made between first and second reading.
It's not that you couldn't move forward today.
If you want us to evaluate the letter that was written
and the plan that was approved you can certainly do
that.
15:29:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
I just think based on what you said
based on what he said you need to come back to us and
make sure that issue is resolved.
15:29:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
I would like to move forward.
15:29:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We will move forward.
That's not the issue.
The issue is between this reading and next reading,
staff needs to resolve the issue by the dumpster and
the other issues that you presented today.
15:29:36 >> I think how you could proceed is a motion based on
the conditions in the staff report being addressed on
the site plan.
Have the staff evaluate the letter and the site plan
that's previously approved.

And if that balances out, the request we have will
bring that back to you at second reading.
15:29:52 >> That's all right.
Anyone here from the public wish to address council on
this petition?
Anyone here from the public?
Are you in opposition?
Okay.
15:30:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Move to close.
15:30:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
(Motion carried).
15:30:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I move an ordinance a special use
permit making lawful the sale of beverages containing
alcohol regardless of alcoholic content bare wine
liquor 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in
connection with a restaurant business established at
or from that certain plot or plot of land located at
3701 Henderson Boulevard Tampa, Florida more
particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
waivers set forth wavering restrictions as to distance
based upon findings based on repeal, based on the
intelligence information I received here, we are going

to have this between first and second reading.
I correct?
15:30:47 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
Yes, sir.
15:30:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I just want to spell out the award
this building got was for turning a sows ear into a
silk purse and developer should be commended in doing
such a great job.
It's a real gift to the street and their burgers are
fabulous.
15:31:06 >> Second.
15:31:07 >> I made a motion on the burgers, not on the motion.
[ Laughter ]
15:31:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:31:18 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Dingfelder and
Mulhern being absent at vote.
Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:31:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We are back on item 101.
And I'm sewage that we are hearing this petition with
the understanding that it's going to come back and
it's going to be limited to the parking issue.
Is that right?

15:31:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
The parking issue an exhibit D-1 noted in the staff
report needs to be corrected.
That's the reference to the survey that's called.
V 08-67 located 11607 north 52nd street.
They are requesting a 4(COP-R), consumption on
premises in conjunction with a restaurant beer wind an
liquor.
You will note as I have already stated that the
parking waiver is unknown at this time.
Which I'm sure can be resolved with the occupancy
calculation.
You will note on page 2 of the staff report that there
are six locations that sell alcohol, within a thousand
feet.
One listed residential within a thousand feet and two
institutional uses.
There are churches within a thousand feet.
The location contains 11,520 square feet of square
foot area, 1 0 spaces on-site.
And it does reference that there are 445 feet
currently within the location.

I did find it inconsistent based on page 2, the
information that's needed on this site plan.
And just to clarify what Mr. Diaz said, by no means am
I getting blamed for either of the petitioners.
He's correct, it originally came in under a different
agent, and then through the process they have changed
agents.
We did draft our comments July 18th and gave them
to that particular agent and they weren't forwarded on
so I think there was some kind of communication issue
on that side.
Just so you note, on page 7, the correction to the
tables that are needed, and exhibit D-1 needs to be
ended as well.
As I said before.
For those of you that are aware of this location, this
is at the southwest corner of Fowler and 52nd.
It's the old whistle stop junction.
Prayer to that I think it was Ryan's family buffet.
And adjacent to it is the public shopping center that
faces 56th street, and then you have got -- at the
corner.

Our objections are based solely on the site plan at
this time, and corrections need to be made.
15:34:14 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
I have been sworn.
City of Tampa police department has in a objections to
this wet zone.
There had been a lot of concerns and a lot of phone
calls to myself directed to Tampa alcohol coalition
being in opposition heavily based on the type of
attraction this particular business may have with the
younger children at USF.
15:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Petitioner?
15:34:46 >>> Joseph Diaz, office at 2522 West Kennedy
Boulevard.
Mr. Chairman, let me put on the record before we get
started, I had a little bit of concern.
I know I am going to need four votes.
And --
15:35:05 >>GWEN MILLER:
He's coming back.
Mr. Miranda is coming right back.
He's coming back.
15:35:16 >>> Well, wait a minute.

My understanding was, I thought you all were voting
today and the only issue was to come back and deal
with parking.
15:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
No, we are not voting today.
15:35:25 >> If you are going to close the hearing and just for
the purposes of just the parking and that's it?
15:35:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Well, whatever issue that may be
raised but the issue right now, the petition really is
not ready to go forward but we can hear the petition
based on what I have been told, and then we'll come
back and we can limit to the discussions based on what
our finding as we move forward today.
15:35:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Mr. Chairman, the hearing will not be
closed.
It will have to be continued.
15:35:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Be continued.
Okay.
15:36:02 >>> As I stated I'm here on behalf of petitioner.
Mr. Mawardi filed a petition seeking an S-2 special
use for a 4(COP-R).
The subject location is located at the southwest
corner of Fowler Avenue and 52nd street as Cathy

previously pointed out.
It was previously O'ryans and whistle junction.
At this point in time the place is closed.
It is considered a large venue under the city's
definition because the facility has in excess of
11,000 square feet and the capacity is in excess of
299 which is your large venue definition capacity.
We are here before you because we require certain
waivers.
We have 250 feet from residential property.
We are 800 feet to an institutional use, that being a
church.
And I think if you might have read in today's paper
that church in fact was trying to give the property
back or sell it back to the county and there was a
hearing on it yet because they have moved their
location.
Question was, how much money and who is going to keep
the proceeds from the sale of the church, and there
was an article, well, that's the church on Fowler
Avenue that's within 500 feet of our location.
And then there are other liquor establishments within

hundred feet.
I think if you look at them they are either
2(COP-R)s, three of them, or three 2(APS)es.
Basically those are package sales.
I have a feeling that we might be drawing a little bit
of opposition.
So I would like to reserve as much of my time as I can
to address issues that may be raised, if council has
no objection I prefer to do that.
15:38:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone from the public who wishes to
address council on this item?
Those in opposition?
Okay.
In opposition?
Okay.
How many in opposition?
All right.
How many in support?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Those who are in opposition to my left.
Those in support to my right.

Okay?
15:38:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Council has a rule that if you are
in support and you are, for example, employed by or
the son-in-law of the petitioner, need to share that
information.
15:38:37 >>> Ms. Saul-Sena raises a very good point, and I wish
to bring it to council's attention.
Mr. Miranda had referenced it in previous meetings.
First of all I want to be clear.
Is anyone who is testifying here today, have you been
sworn in?
Is there anybody here who is going to testify who has
not been sworn?
So I'm assuming that everybody here has been sworn and
signed the sign-in sheet.
Council, I would bring to your attention that per
council's rules -- and this is relative to everybody
who is going to testify, please, all persons who
provide testimony, information or opinion regarding a
petition in a quasi-judicial matter pending before
City Council must disclose any direct or indirect
business or personal interest between themselves and

the petitioner or applicant which is requesting
action.
This information shall not be used to deny the
petition of the matter but goes to the weight of the
evidence, information, or opinion provided.
So if you could pleas do that, council would be very
appreciative.
Thank you.
15:39:37 >>> Dr. Ken base, vice-president, Dean of the students
of the University of South Florida.
And I have no affiliation with the petitioner.
I come out of concern for my students.
I have been apprised of the business practices of
scoops Orlando, and I know that what I've seen, and
what has been advertised and marketed, it seems like
it encourages binge drinking.
I have 4500 students on campus, University of South
Florida resident students.
We desire to keep all of our students on campus and
provide a lot of activities for them.
But when they go on web sites and see people drinking
out of funnels and really sensationalize drinking

aspect, and what I have seen on the web site, it
encourages binge drinking.
And as you know, alcohol sentence a major problem for
colleges and universities across the country.
And I'm fully aware that our colleagues at the
University of central Florida have had to consider,
their student government has had to consider getting a
bus to go over to the establishment to bring students
back to the campus after they have been out drinking
all night.
And, you know, I don't want to see us have to utilize
the same behavior to police underage drinking on our
campus.
I don't want to enable our students to go out and
drink.
We are providing late-night programming for our
students to deter them from going off campus.
But, you know, peer group is a strong influence for
college and university students.
And one of my other concerns is that right across
Fowler Avenue is a major thoroughfare and I really
have concerns about my students walking across Fowler

Avenue to go to this establishment.
I have heard that they are going to provide shuttles
and everything but I think that only enables students
to be irresponsible and drink because they know they
have someone that can bring them back to the campus.
I'm aware of that.
At the University of central Florida, that a student
was killed as a result of drinking at the
establishment.
Not that that's their fault because students have to
be held responsible for their behavior.
However, the fact is that I know this establishment
has been very popular on the Internet web site, and I
really do have severe concerns about this
establishment.
And so I want to come down and voice my concern as an
administrator and as a person who think it's out of
character and I said that as an administrator.
I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
15:42:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
15:42:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'm sorry, and I apologize for
being out for a second.

I was listening but you I didn't get it all.
What are we doing?
I see a 4(COP-R).
Is this secondary to -- what is it they are going to
have?
15:42:39 >>> Well, my understanding is it was going to be a
restaurant, but they also want to, I guess, have a
nightclub in the evening.
15:42:46 >> Well, here again the legal department can correct
me if I am wrong.
It means they have to have 51% of sales, of food.
I correct?
15:42:59 >>REBECCA KERT:
Legal department.
You are correct.
15:43:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
And no more than 49%.
And I'm not anti-college and I'm not -- but all
colleges have to understand that I can only speak for
me.
I'm not responsible what happens on your property.
There's a lot of binge drinking that happens outside
your fine university.
And I'm speaking all universities. This alcohol thing

has gotten out of hand.
You know why?
Because they see it with their parents.
They see it when they are growing up.
They see it all through life.
And at the end, they become a mirror of what they have
seen in their life.
And I'm not a preacher but I'm telling you what I know
about life.
And I may stand up one day and preach.
I like that.
But when you --
15:43:55 >>> When you advertise two and three drink specials,
it increases the opportunity to do binge drink and we
know that the 18 to 24 age bracket --
Okay, your three minutes is up.
15:44:06 >>> Okay, thank you very much.
15:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Opposition?
Actually line up on the right.
Those in opposition.
I'm going back and forth.
Opposition and then those in favor to my right.

If you are in favor you have to line up.
I'm going back and forth between pro and con.
Okay?
15:44:23 >>GWEN MILLER:
Somebody come up.
15:44:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Yes, come on, sir.
15:44:31 >>> Good afternoon, City Council.
My name is -- chaplain at USF at the University of
Tampa for many years, since 1976.
Binge drinking and alcohol is a problem in all
universities.
And I hope that maybe from this opportunity here, we
might find a solution to going in a direction that
will help us alleviate this problem.
And this is a major problem.
But councilman, it's very true, we can't control the
rights of the young student to do what he or she wants
to do off premises.
And there are hundreds of drinking establishments
everywhere.
Wherever you turn.
I don't know -- when I find out about the whistle
junction application for a restaurant and also a

drinking -- a place to have a drink.
I came up with the idea, and I ran it past them, and I
think this will be something that maybe the light at
the end of the tunnel.
We have got to educate our young people.
We have got to be able to create a venue where they
will see that drinking is dangerous to themselves.
It's not fun.
And the fact that it's set within a restaurant, which
is a place to eat, and at the same time also we can't
tell them, now, you cannot go ahead and have drinks.
This may be an opportunity to allow myself, pastors.
I spoke with individuals involved in it, to have a
restaurant that will give education material as well
as some sort of opportunity to apprise students on the
dangers when it comes to drinking.
You know, we have got to be proactive, not reactive.
We have a problem in America today.
And it's drinking.
And the university presidents say let's move it down
to 18 years, allow them to drink.
We have got to come up with solutions that aren't

just, we are going to contain it, we are going to
deprive them of it.
We can't deprive them of it.
So it's not radical, but we have got to educate.
We have got to create understanding within the young
people, and it's not as if there are no drinking
establishments everywhere you turn in the campus, or
as you saw from all of the requests today, but we have
to deal with the reality of what is.
I had a friend, his name is bill.
He once told me, rabbi, I don't always agree with you,
he said, but we have got to deal with what is, not
with what we want it to be.
And came up with a variety of things, coming in from
out of the country, and he said, if I don't have that,
then I cannot survive, even though the standards are
not the way they are here.
But don't change my surroundings.
I can make a difference here.
And that is what we have to deal with today.
There are many, many drinking establishments there.
I guess the requirement is to be able to have hours

that students feel comfortable with.
And that requires the late-night Friday nights,
et cetera.
(Bell sounds).
15:48:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Rabbi, thanks.
Your time is up.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir.
The speaker to my left.
15:48:18 >> I have a paper for additional time.
15:48:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
If you are here please acknowledge
that.
Lyon.
Carol Wells.
Two additional minutes, please.
15:48:34 >> If I could have the overhead I appreciate it.
15:48:37 >> You have the pictures there already?
15:48:40 >> Yes, I do.
15:48:41 >> Thank you.
Bill Lyon.
I'm a resident of Lutz.
You live at 19713 Courtney Joe lane.

My family and I moved to Tampa in 1953 and since that
tame I have resided exclusively in northern and
northwestern Hillsborough County.
I am and have been for the last 29 years a regular
attending member of EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church
off 51st street and Fowler Avenue.
The location of our church is only 800 feet from the
proposed nightclub.
The representation today as a member of our church is
to voice our opposition to the proposed nightclub.
Over the last several years, the area in our church
and the proposed nightclub would be located has
experienced a substantial increase in growth and thus
a substantial increase in crime.
Our church and the associated buildings have been
willized -- vandalized including but not limited to
breaking and entering, theft, and spray painting of
gang symbols on certain outside walls.
My life experience in having lived in the area for
several decades has afforded me a degree of knowledge,
understanding, and wisdom that exceeds that of my
youth.

One need not be a sociologist or psychiatrist to
understand and realize the widespread abuses which not
unlike those abuses presently taking place at other
night spots, but indeed will take place at the
nightclub proposed here today.
And any truly well experienced prosecutor or police
officer will acknowledge that places such as the one
proposed will be nothing less, more perhaps, nothing
less than a magnet that will attract all of the most
seedy and undesirable elements within the immediate
surrounding communities.
Those who are proposing this new night spot will of
course try and sugarcoat their intentions and explain
all of the steps they plan to implement so as to make
the club safer, more compliant, different, and more
palatable than others throughout the Tampa Bay area.
If, however, the proposed club is allowed to open, the
reality of the situation will no doubt manifest it
within a short period of time.
Liability, council members, is the key word that
merits your attention.
Along with the seedy and criminal elements will be

those rather innocent young people with no criminal
record but with a natural curiosity from the upbeat.
We teach our young people for responsibility for their
actions.
We should expect nothing less from our elected
officials.
Should you chose to allow the club to open, and when,
not if, trouble or God forbid tragedy occurs, they
will most assured by be a line personal injury and
wrongful death attorneys waiting in the wings to
spread the liability to anyone and everyone possible
including the City of Tampa.
Please don't be found guilty of contributing to the
personal injury or wrongful death of a young person
who presently is alive and well.
Pleas consider these words to heart and govern
yourselves accordingly.
With the tame remaining I would like to speak to the
narrative.
Our church is about 800 feet, 51st and Fowler
Avenue, from the proposed nightclub.
We do D not receive any notification whatsoever by

regular mail or certified mail.
I moved to an apartment on 14th street and Fowler
Avenue in April 1974.
In those days there was no such thing as suitcase
city. That entire area was mostly wooded.
The only thing on Fowler Avenue was lum's restaurant
which served beer as well as the university restaurant
owned by the Scaglione family, University of South
Florida was growing.
Today, the apartment where I used to live is now
surrounded by a wrought iron fence about 7 feet high,
known as suitcase city.
We are talking about from Fowler Avenue north to now
Bearss Avenue, 30th street,
This type of club if you la at the overhead, this is a
club owned by the gentleman proposing this club.
And this is the type of establishment they are
proposing.
Binge drinking, this tape of -- our community doesn't
need this.
We have people coming into our church now right off
the street.

And we welcome anyone if they are coming in to -- but
when they come in for lunch, when they come in for
curiosity and the big money, we don't approve of that.
And there are a number of people walking through the
building.
We have church services Sunday morning, sometimes
Sunday evening, sometimes we have Thursday evening
services.
And unfortunately, this type of a club is not going to
enhance the community in any way.
There are in a social redeeming values in what you
just saw in this picture.
And I would certainly appreciate, as would the other
members of our congregation appreciate, that you take
these things to heart and realize that this type of
establishment is nothing that they should have.
Thank you.
(Bell sounds).
15:54:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Next speaker to my right.
15:54:22 >> My name is Dasal ma wad I, the petitioners.
And I'm not a great speaker and I don't prepare
speeches or anything.

I speak from the heart.
When my son moved into UCF, about four years ago, I
walked around with him around UCF and checked out all
the bars, the night clubs, places that kids that you
see were attending, and what I found was sleazy bars
that cater to no one in particular, but kids went
there just for drinking.
We came up with the idea that we wanted to create a
restaurant, a social venue, and sports bar for kids
that gather maybe from Miami, from Ft. Lauderdale,
from all over, where they have a social, with those
people coming to our case are kids that no each other.
They have met in Miami or other places.
There is not a mix of 50, 60-year-old, 40-year-old.
These are college sports bar where they come to watch
sport and socialize.
Prayer to that in Orlando was no such thing.
We had a store, liquor license and everything and it's
more away from everyone and it's a very popular place
with the kids.
The same thing with the idea we came to help out with
the idea to create something for college kids.

We spend tons of money to sends our kids to colleges
but on the other hand we let them go and hide and go
and basements and sleazy places and drink in binges.
Over the years, we have had maybe 300 or 500 that you
people walk through our bars.
With a professor, the administrator mentioned about
the kids that died coming or leaving our bars, that is
not correct.
Somebody walking on east colonial from another bar to
our establishment had nothing to do with our
establishment.
We went to try an experiment, we reprimanded people
that did something wrong.
We have police officers in our police at all times,
while the place is open.
We have four police officers there. We have nine
security people within the place.
People come and socialize and the place gets very
popular, and that's why support from a lot of people,
we have support, the attorney has letters and the
police department.
I don't know why people always think of college kids

as sleazy.
This is the future of our country.
Why are they all sleazy?
Why does it have to do with kids that come to eat,
watch sports bar, and to go and vandalize houses,
churches and things like that.
We try to always, always -- and I have eight children.
I never had a drink near my kids.
It comes from the house just like you said.
I'm not here to correct the whole world.
But our place, in our establishment, can make a
difference in letting people know that drinking is not
just the venue for drinking.
There's social life.
There's fun.
Where they can come to a place, watch basketball,
anything they want in sports and socialize.
(Bell sounds).
15:57:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, I don't have a
computer so these things that are put up here that
says scoop, is that original photo from where?
From who's place?

15:58:08 >>> I have no idea where that photo was.
All I know that scalp was opened, the name was opened
up at scoop, nightly scoop, and we were thinking of
making nightly scoop to go in every state, near
colleges, and to be just like came about Dave and
Busters, we want to be for college kids, and that's
why --
15:58:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, if you have a question
regarding something you previously saw, you have the
right to inquire of that person to call them back if
you wish.
15:58:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
If I may.
I saw it.
I don't know who put it up here.
If that gentleman put it up --
From the church.
15:58:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Would you come up, please?
15:58:55 >> Thank you.
15:58:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Thank you very much.
15:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Since I don't have a computer and I
don't follow computerism too much, where are these
photos from, and -- I guess the indication is to tie

this into this petition somehow.
15:59:17 >>> We were given these photos --
15:59:22 >>> This photograph photo --
Excuse me.
State your name on the record, please.
15:59:29 >>> Karen Hernandez.
15:59:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
Are you the owner of these pictures?
15:59:34 >>> Um, owner?
They were given to me by members of the Tampa
alcoholic coalition.
Does that make me the owner?
15:59:44 >> Well, you brought them.
Do you know where these pictures came from?
15:59:47 >> Yes, I do.
They were downloaded by Tampa alcohol coalition
members from the web site online for scoop.
And I have copies of each and every group of these
pictures for each and every one of you, as well as the
web site which we got them from.
16:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay, councilman, does that answer
your question?

16:00:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Does this relate to the same ones,
that own scoop?
16:00:11 >>> In Orlando, and this is the establishment and this
is what they call a gaggaloo party which was on the
Internet advertising to be taking place at the current
place in Tampa, until they removed it from the
Internet, the party advertisement so we and I have
that information in here as well, as to when they were
removed.
16:00:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
16:00:43 >>> My name is -- I reside in Lutz, 314 Lake Caron
Avenue.
As a deacon and member of the EL Bethel Baptist church
I am here to speak out on our position.
Our church building is located at 11605, which is
directly behind this club.
Our parking lot almost meets.
That's how close we are.
Over the next several years, crime was in the area
around the church has increased dramatically.

The type of so-called club that's been proposed would
will do nothing to enhance or improve the quality of
life within the immediate area of the proposed night
spot.
Approval of special business however will contribute
accept not only of the church but the entire committee
and I would also like to say a concern to me that the
church was not notified of the rezoning of this club.
This comes from an outside source.
And I felt like we definitely should have been
informed of it, I would not have got it from the
outside source we would not be down here to oppose it.
Thank you for hearing me.
Thank you.
16:02:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you, sir.
Do you have a question?
16:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, this is the second
time I have heard that church has not been notified.
I wonder if I could ask the distance requirement.
I want to make sure that we somehow didn't fall
through the cracks or something of that nature and I
want to rectify that before we continue with this

hearing.
16:02:39 >> Okay.
16:02:39 >> President and CEO of the designated driving
company.
I went to -- want to go ahead and let you know that
Romi and some of his associates petitioning here today
contacted me prayer to deciding on whether or not to
open this establishment and said they were very
interested in talking with me about a safe way to get
people not just USF students but anybody in general
that would be drinking in this establishment and home
safely, and that is my job.
What we do is we provide designated drivers for
anybody who needs them.
We are open from 8 a.m -- or 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. seven
days a week, no holiday.
Romi had contacted me and wanted to set up an
agreement with us where he could pay for his patrons
who needed it and the reason I'm here today in front
of you is because Romi is the only bar owner in
Hillsborough County, and I deal with hundreds of bar
owners every day, that ever proposed to pay for their

patrons home, and I would like to see an example like
Romi and scoop is setting here and I would like to see
that followed through other business owners and other
establishments.
Most people would like to turn a blind eye and pretend
that that doesn't happen at their establishment.
But unfortunately it does.
And does over 300 rids a month which would be roughly
60 a week from establishments all over Hillsborough
County.
We have 20 locations.
We are very reputable company and our goal is to
provide a service for people anonymously, whatever,
that need a ride home.
Like I said, I would like to see more establishments
like this one, take an initiative and say, listen, we
know that people are leaving our establishment drunk,
and we would like to make sure that they don't
endanger anybody else on the road or themselves.
And so that's what I would love to see in order to do.
16:04:48 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, council members.
Joe Affronti, mayor of Temple Terrace.

This establishment is right on the border of Temple
Terrace on 52nd street, just happens to be over on the
other side of the street in Tampa.
But I'll be very brief.
When you hear all the other people that have to speak
and find out the details and the stats on what this
establishment is doing in the city of Orlando, and
right near a university where we have 43,000 students
at the University of South Florida, we are very
concerned.
So this past week, our council voted unanimously to
oppose this, because we feel that our job as elected
officials is protect is the T safety of our citizens.
That's number one.
And we feel that when you hear everything that's going
to be presented here, I think you will agree to that,
that this would put our safety of our citizens in
jeopardy.
And we are very concerned about it.
And we hope that you will see it the way we do, and
vote to oppose this establishment.
Thank you.

16:06:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you for taking your time to
come.
16:06:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you, mayor.
16:06:07 >> Good afternoon.
My name is Keith Mawardi, the older brother.
As I said, no big words to tell you.
I'm not trying to hedge the facts about anything.
This is what I think.
Look at me.
I'm young.
I'm 23 years old.
I'm maturity, he just wants to have fun.
I'm not saying this because of myself but I feel as a
23-year-old and being young like myself and my
brothers I feel we have more knowledge about how
people go against the law and drink.
I know what kids want to do.
I have friends also.
I have younger people all around the bar, and I feel
like us being young, as much as it looks negative and
sounds negative, it's completely just the opposite.
We know what's going on.

And I'm kind of getting upset and more so hurt,
sleazy, graffiti, vandalism.
How would even me as a normal citizen and good person
committee such a negative thing and to say we promote
binge drinking, underage drinking.
I have brothers and sisters and God forbid if a drunk
driver hit one of them or if they should drink and
drive.
I don't even drink and to tell you the truth I never
drink once.
I own a bar.
We are not trying to come here and God forbid hurt
your establishment, hurt your community.
That is not our purpose.
Are we going to lie and say that people do not slip
across the cracks and mistakes happen?
I would be the first to say 100% yes.
But do we take every precaution, over every bar owner
I can guarantee, yes.
Have we had any incidents?
Our bar has been open for Luke a short period of time
but the bar opens for ten years.

And I'm saying this because we are vigilant.
We are aware.
I have letters from corporation, sheriff's offices.
If you are inappropriate, young.
I can show you pictures everyone hatters.
I can go anywhere and get in an accident.
Just to say that -- I keep hearing night club.
We are not a restaurant/sports club and grill.
How about the fire marshal and police department and
poker nights?
That we do for establishments.
That's being overlad.
I feel unfortunate that we have just this negative
view of just a couple of things and a couple of people
hurting it.
How many good people are everywhere?
It's unfortunate.
So our thing is to honestly, a college crowd, we have
an age limit, you know.
We have to be over 21 years old.
We are working with you.
We will not do specials.

Everyone thinks free drinks, free drinks.
We are not doing free drinks.
We have standards.
We have police.
So my thing here is not could Vince you of how good I
or anything but not to let the negative overlook
the positive.
And it's all positive that comes out of this.
It's a great experience for me and also a social
place, not just a nightclub.
So there's a lot of characteristics and very hard to
understand.
I know that a lot of people are opposing that and it's
unfortunate.
And I am not trying to talk negative about anybody.
But police see our point.
Everybody see our point just because we are young does
not mean we are not mature, does not mean we don't
care.
I think I care a lot.
And we are trying to do safe rides home.
Trying to do double ID checks at the bar.

Trying to make it a 21-year-old establishment.
I don't think anyone is going to walk over to the
church.
We have four police officers every night standing
outside until everybody leaves.
Thank you for your time.
(Bell sounds).
16:09:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
16:09:50 >> Galen Thomas, 902 jungle Avenue north in
St. Petersburg.
I'm the pastor of EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church.
On behalf of the congregation, we oppose the
petitioner's petition.
16:10:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you, pastor.
16:10:13 >> Peter Frontac.
I attend EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church.
I have seen the web site for the scoop, bar,
nightclub.
I have no previous experience with them except what I
see, which is what is their web site, and the web site
to me, I hear what they are saying that they promote
values but I don't see the evidence.

I see the evidence that promotes binge drinking and
very alcohol related activities.
I'm very concerned about that type of venue very close
to our church, a venue that is promoting these
activities, and what effect it will have on our
church.
Thank you very much.
16:11:02 >>> Joshua -- over in Orlando and will be working over
here.
Just wanted to say I think there's a little
misunderstanding about a bar across the street, less
than a stone's throw away, who has been there for some
time and no one is complaining about it.
There haven't been issues.
We are close to USF but we are not looking to make it
a highway of people running across looking to get in
trouble, looking to get hit by cars, God forbid.
We are looking to work with USF.
We want to better USF.
We are not trying to exploit USF.
And I think that USF could be just like UCF in some
places, an establishment different from others but UCF

has accepted our help and we have accepted theirs a
lot and worked together and I think better than
university of central Florida.
I think we would like to do the same with central
Florida if given a chance.
16:12:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Next speaker.
16:12:07 >>> Good afternoon.
I have a waiver form and I also have some information.
16:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Put your name for the record.
16:12:14 >>> Karen Hernandez.
1211 Forest Hills drive.
16:12:21 >>GWEN MILLER:
Go ahead.
16:12:51 >>> Thank you very much.
My name is Karen Hernandez as I stated before.
I am part of the Tampa alcohol coalition and I am also
as I know many of you have heard me speak before, I am
a professionally trained former bartender of
approximately seven years.
I have a business that teaches practices to bars and
establishments that puts them in compliance with
responsible vendor statute.

For this time at this moment I am here on behalf of
Tampa alcohol coalition and would like to express
Tampa alcohol coalition's concerns with this specific
establishment.
We do not support the special use permit for a
4(COP-R) and a closing time of 3 a.m. for the scoop
bar and grill.
We would be willing to listen to the community and
listen to the owners and managers of scoop Orlando --
I'm sorry, scoop Tampa, and see if there is anything
that can make this better.
However, we support the community as a whole.
We support the University of South Florida.
If this establishment is something that keeps
insisting wants to be a restaurant we have no problem
with that.
We would think that if City Council would choose to
give them some form of licensing, that they would take
into consideration the area, the concerns of the
neighbors, the USF students, and at least let them run
as a restaurant.
My understanding of restaurant is closing time is

11:00 on the weekends, midnight on -- on the weekdays,
midnight on the weekends.
Let them serve food.
Let it be a family place.
Now, having said that, I know I have provided you with
facts that have come from Tampa alcohol coalition and
there are some questions and issues that came up on
these.
Drink specials we have heard about binge drinking.
I would like the fact that it has the writing on it,
the second page, has free drink specials, this was
found online, prior to it being removed on August
2nd after scoop Tampa was aware that there was the
opposition.
I would like to point out one of these.
Free bare all night, bring your own cup, free,
32-ounces.
Power hours, 60 shots in 60 minutes, hundreds of
people.
Okay.
Now, the beer, if that's the power hour and they are
doing maybe one once.

I don't know, but that's pushing 8-plus beers in one
hour.
I consider that binge drinking.
And that is a special that they run.
So I would have some concerns as would Tampa alcohol
coalition that these drink specials here would
encourage the type of excessive drinking that we do
not want in this area.
Now, there are pictures that I have also provided to
you, and if I can put them on the board I will not put
some of the more graphic ones, if I could.
There are just a couple in particular.
Number one, I hope this is park working.
This is just a spot of the picture of the scoop
Orlando web site, where we got the information, the
drink specials, which were put in your packet.
So that is where the information came from.
In addition to that, as a bartender, I am going to
speak as a bartender now, because I know you have
heard me do this before.
The two pictures that you see right here and right
here, this is a bottle of YAGER meister going straight

into the bartender's mouth.
This is a bartender.
One of the reasons they have a band around their arm
where they are holding the bottle opener for the
establishment.
When you have bartenders doing this on duty you have
customers that la like this, and look like this.
Now, that was the type of service from what we have
found is going on, and I don't know the ages of those
two people.
I see in a arm bands on either one of them so I don't
know if they are underage or 21 and up.
So our concern is at this point, for the safety of the
students at the University of South Florida, the
concerns that are coming with the church, with the
neighborhood, with Temple Terrace, we support the
community, having said that, Tampa alcohol coalition
also supports business.
We want a thriving business there.
If there is a restaurant to be had there, I would love
to take my kids there to go have something to eat.
However, this type of establishment is not something

that we want and this is what is being run in Orlando.
And I may be in error on this, but my understanding is
scoop Orlando does not run as a restaurant.
I believe their restaurant failed.
They run solely as a bar.
Now, one last thing.
I have a student 18 years old who is now at the
University of South Florida's honors college -- Go
Bulls -- extremely proud of him.
Please help me keep my student safe.
Thank you.
16:18:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
16:18:35 >>> Good afternoon.
My name is Tony deland, chief of police in Temple
Terrace.
My council and my community both are opposed to this
establishment.
And I have one question for the gentleman that said
there are four policemen there all the time.
The four policemen, how did they get 170 calls for
service other policemen had to respond to in seven
months?

These are from Orange County sheriff's office
statistics.
It's pretty high call for service, and my department
couldn't handle.
If they turn right coming out, my city no matter what
street they come out on.
Thank you.
16:19:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
16:19:14 >> Good afternoon.
Hamilton, alcohol and tobacco, Florida alcohol and
tobacco. I need to -- neither oppose nor am for the
business known as scoop Tampa.
I only wanted to present the facts that through the
other location we have ten complaints that were
actually lodged against the business.
The business itself, there was one care case which we
consider having to do with a death at the location,
and that was at that location, I have the facts here
based on what happened, and there was a death that
occurred that was actually associated with that
location in Orlando.
And that's all.

16:20:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Mr. Chairman, if there is in a one
here present to wishes to speak, the appropriate thing
at this time would now be to discuss the day of the
continuance, when the public hearing would have to be
continued.
16:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
There is rebuttal.
16:20:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Well, here's the thing, the testimony
is not complete.
Are you granting him multiple rebuttals?
16:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
No.
16:20:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
So it would be inappropriate for
council to take discussion at this point because all
the evidence and testimony is not in, and if council
wishes to give the petitioner several rebuttals, then
that would be council's choice, although normally what
would happen is petitioner would have the last word
after all the evidence is in.
16:20:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me it will what you my concern is
now at this point.
Okay.
The petitioner is going to get rebuttal.
All the evidence is not in yet.

We are going to have two more hearings now, right?
16:21:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
You are going to have the end of the
first public hearing and then you will have the
opportunity for a full second adoption public hearing
assuming that it does pass on first reading.
16:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me finish.
16:21:13 >>GWEN MILLER:
Today would be --
I was come to that.
Now people that spoke today, will they be allowed to
come back and speak at the next hearing?
16:21:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Most likely the answer would be yes.
Council does have the ability to limit their
discussion to only that new information that will be
provided at the continued public hearing.
Council in the past has not allowed people to speak if
they spoke previously before, and there are no new
issues.
That is council's choice.
But obviously with regard to the traffic and what
other information may come before council, people
would have the right to be able to speak to those
items.

16:21:54 >>GWEN MILLER:
Where would the new information come
from?
16:21:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
The new information would come from
the evaluation of the information that has yet to be
provided to the staff for its evaluation and then
presented to City Council for its consideration.
16:22:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
To clarify, it's the parking usual
you.
They need to revise the site plan and address the
parking issue so it's one particular item.
16:22:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It would seem to me that what we can do is provide a
copy of the tape of this meeting to the council
members who weren't able to be present for it, and
that we should be very clear at the continuation of
this that the people who have spoken today, the only
new thing they could speak to would be transportation.
And that we could even limit that conversation to, you
know, two minutes if we wanted.
But we should pick the date and time and give the
other council members an opportunity to review the
tapes.

16:23:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Did you have something you wished to
say, Mr. Diaz?
16:23:08 >>> I have in a objections to that.
I welcome that.
I just want to put on the record I have not used all
of my time, because I was going to have to do rebuttal
so I reserved some of that together with my rebuttal
time.
To be honest with you, I would just as soon do my
rebuttal when the full council is here and everybody
has reviewed it.
I much prefer that.
And just in case of any other thing, I'll deal with it
then.
As far as I'm concerned, I have got to rebut today's
testimony.
I want to provide some information to city staff with
respect to the required parking and whether or not we
meet it and require a waiver, or do we satisfy it?
16:23:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
let me address the issue here, though,
the process we have for these hearings, is that right?
The process, and petitioner is afforded 15 minutes to

present his case, and afforded five minutes rebuttal,
is that correct?
16:24:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
That's correct.
16:24:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It's been my experience in ten years
you don't get a chance to reserve anything.
You have 15 minutes to present your case.
Once you give up that rate, you only have five minutes
rebuttal.
Now, council can correct me because you may be on a
different procedure here.
Our position is that at the time, like today, you have
still got -- you have 15 minutes and went into
discussion.
16:24:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Normally, council -- and I may not
have been present for the end of Mr. Diaz' initial
presentation, but normally, the council, the procedure
does not allow for it unless the petitioner makes that
request and council granted by unanimous consent, or
without objection.
And I don't know, Mr. Dias, did you make that request?
16:24:54 >>> You are going to see that I made that request.
16:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
You made that request.

16:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
And without objection I was not
present to be aware of how much time there was.
Normally, council, there have been instances in the
past where council did do that in certain
circumstances.
It was not a hard and fast recall if specifically the
request was made and there was no objection to that.
So I will have to find out how much time there was
left.
Unless there is an objection now, or unless council
wishes to have that discussion now, and then we'll
address --
Well, I think in the future that might be something
that council may want to consider.
16:25:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Yes, sir.
16:25:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Again my experience is once you
relinquish those 15 minutes then you don't come back
and say, all right, now I want to use them or make
that request.
Again, my experience has been different elsewhere.
So that's why I wanted to preface that.
16:25:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
The concern that also, council, two

things.
Number one is, when somebody reserves time for
rebuttal, additional time for rebuttal, that time is
not used to introduce new evidence after everybody has
spoken.
That's number one.
And number two, council, you do have the latitude when
there are a lot of people perhaps in the audience who
Don speak, that five minutes may not be a sufficient
time to address the number of people who did speak for
all the issues and council can make that adjustment
for the sake of fairness and due process to give the
Peter opportunity to be able to address those items.
So either way now.
16:26:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
We disagree on that.
We disagree on that one.
We disagree.
I heard on many occasions, and I have seen
communities, five minutes rebuttal because that's the
process.
But we'll save that discussion for another day.
Now, in that council, he's saying that because you

made a request, there was no objection, which I was
going to raise at the end the discussion, grant you
some additional time, whatever that is.
But I'm telling you in the future we need to mail
these issues down.
Process on these issues is important to me.
We nail these things down.
I don't wanted people to start using this saying,
okay, I reserve my time and then take another 20
minutes along with the five.
We can't have that.
But he did make the request.
Yes.
16:27:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
My motion would be to continue --
16:27:12 >>GWEN MILLER:
Point of clarification.
Mr. Diaz, is this a restaurant or a bar?
16:27:18 >>> Yes, ma'am, it is a restaurant.
Location in Orlando is not an R zoning.
It's a 4(COP) license, I think if you review the
documentation.
The request before is you for a 4(COP-R).
That is the request that is before you.

16:27:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Let me follow with a question.
These pictures, is this the same or a different owner?
16:27:42 >>> It's the brother in Orlando.
Okay.
There it's a bar.
It's not a restaurant.
It is a bar.
It's a 4(COP).
I think you can check with Keith Hamilton in the
Division of Alcoholic Beverages and tobacco and he's
going to tell you there's a 4(COP) license at that
location, not an SRX, nothing like that.
That location has no 51-49% requirement.
This location will.
16:28:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Let me follow up then.
Notification of the church.
What happened with that?
16:28:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Under a special use notice criteria it's all property
owners within 250 feet direct distance of the property
itself that's under review.

There is no special requirement for a notification to
the churches or schools or anything, and the churches
are 800 feet away.
So it's a notification to all property owners within
250 feet and the neighborhood association.
And they were noticed according to the list.
16:28:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
They were noticed?
16:28:42 >>> The property owners and the neighborhood
association, yes.
16:28:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
In 250 feet, yes.
Okay.
So that explains to the church then they were outside
of 250 feet distance, 800 feet.
Yes, sir.
16:28:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, I am given these
things and I'm sure they are in good thoughts and the
rate intentions.
I want to make sure that what I read is correct.
Article came out in the news of July 9th, 2008,
scoop is an Orlando bar owner, cheap drinks, and DAGO
parties.
I guess I don't know which are the Mawardi expects to

continue the tradition of DEGO parties in the Tampa
location.
Is that a fact or not?
16:29:31 >>> I'm not aware of that article.
I haven't seen it.
I can't comment.
16:29:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I just want to bring these things
up for clarity before the next meeting.
16:29:44 >>> We'll be glad to respond to when I do my rebuttal.
16:29:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
If I can just for the record, what
council received from the representative from the
alcohol coalition, that is placed in the record as
well, I provided a copy of that to the petitioner so
he had that opportunity to review that material.
16:30:05 >>GWEN MILLER:
Ms. Saul-Sena, make the motion.
16:30:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I move we continue this motion to
September 18th at 1:30.
16:30:11 >>GWEN MILLER:
Second.
16:30:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Second.
16:30:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Without objection, Mr. Dias?
16:30:18 >>> That's fine.
16:30:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
And that the discussion will be

limited with those parameters you identified earlier,
so staff understands that.
Okay.
It's been moved and seconded.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
Opposes?
Okay.
So moved.
We have another item.
If you can hold your discussion down.
Council is still in session, please.
Exit the chambers quietly.
Thank you.
Item 104.
103.
Did we take up 103?
103.
103.
103.
16:30:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE:
Land development.
Case V 08-80 located at 5312 Avion park drive, a
request for a 4(COP) license for alcohol sale special

use permits for a large venue.
This is similar to a previous request is for a hotel.
This is for beer, wine and liquor, consumption on and
off premises.
There will be package sales in this potentially.
Site is located PD land development rezone back to
2004.
This is for 171-room hotel.
Current code requires and the site plan does provide
for 181 parking spaces.
You will note on page 1 that there are no alcoholic
beverage establishments within 1 that you feet.
No residential property within 1 that you feet.
There are four institutional uses within 1,000 feet.
Noted on page 2 of the staff report.
Bottom of page 2, 3, 4 and 5 are the criteria for
special uses.
The one item that I would like to clarify for page 4,
on page 4, is for a large venue, and this happened in
the previous case, is for the petitioner to state on
the record hours of operation.
I believe they put -- I'm not sure if they put it on

the plan yet.
But if they could state on the record.
I'm not sure if there's a restaurant in this
particular hotel.
If there's not a full kitchen, they need to put the
business hours of operation on the site plan. If
there is a full kitchen, they simply need to note that
on the site plan, if they could acknowledge that on
the record.
There were no objections to the request.
Just to remind you, this is part of the -- when it
came through in 2004 I think it was called McKibbins
site across from the airport, the frontage road,
Spruce and O'Brien.
It's a Hilton hotel in the center of the property.
We are available for any questions.
16:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Is officer Miller still around?
Petitioner?
16:32:55 >>: My name is Carl oaths, a representative from
McKibbin hotel management, the owners of this
particular hotel.
To answer the questions that were put forth, would

just be does Vermont a full kitchen?
It does.
It has a full kitchen that provides food to the entire
facility within that hotel, 171 rooms.
16:33:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
All right.
Officer Miller?
16:33:18 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
department.
I have been sworn.
City of Tampa police department has in objection to
this wet zoning.
16:33:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Anyone here in the public that's in
opposition?
Anyone here in the public in opposition?
16:33:33 >>GWEN MILLER:
Move to close.
16:33:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
(Motion carried).
16:33:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay, all right.
16:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
For the record, this is not
necessary any neighborhood.
This is from what I see is a bunch of rental car
properties that are used there to store their rental

cars.
This is I think across from runway 36 left or right or
something.
I move an ordinance special use permit for alcohol
beverage sales large venue and making use the sale of
beverage change alcohol regardless of alcohol content
beer wine liquor 4(COP) for consumption on premises in
sealed containers off premises on a certain lot, plot
or tract of land located at 5312 Avion park drive,
Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
2 therefore approving waivers as set forth herein
waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
certain findings providing for repeal of all
ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
16:34:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
Saul-Sena.
16:34:33 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Dingfelder and
Mulhern being absent at vote.
Second reading of the ordinance will be September
4th at 9:30 a.m.
16:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Thank you.
Item 104.

16:34:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Mr. Chairman, I don't believe the
witnesses have been sworn in for this item.
This is the appeal hearing.
16:35:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
All right.
If you have not been sworn, pleas stand and raise your
right hand.
Has everyone been sworn?
16:35:12 >>ERNEST MUELLER:
Assistant city attorney.
Today you have before you the appeal of Variance
Review Board's denial of a variance in case number
VRB-08-at.
The property on this appeal is located at 4803
Woodmere road, and the applicants and property owners
are Pablo and Elise Ramon.
One was to reduce the rear yard set back from 20 feet
to 3 feet.
The other was to reduce the east side yard setback
from 7 feet to 1 foot.
And the third was to increase the accessory structure
height from 15 feet to 25 feet.
This is all in order to construct a second story
addition to an existing garage.

The VRB denied the variance request by a vote of 6 to
1, and the basis that the applicants did not
demonstrate the hardship criteria set forth in Tampa
city code section 17.5-74.
I would remind City Council there can be no new
evidence presented to you today and your actions shall
be solely based upon the record created during the
variance review board hearing.
If neighbors are or concerned individuals testify
before you today on this appeal, I don't think there
are, they must have testified at the variance review
board and their testimony must be limited to what they
testified at the VRB hearing.
This council shall determine whether the decision was
supported by competent, substantial evidence, whether
the applicants were afforded due process, and whether
the variance review board observed the essential
requirements of the law.
Now at this time I'll turn the podium over to ELISE
Ruiz Ramon to present her appeal.
16:37:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, I would like for council's
own reference, I provided copies of the standard of

review, and I am also providing copies of section
17.574, which are the hardship criteria.
16:37:55 >>> Thank you.
16:37:58 >>> Any name is Elisi Ruiz Ramon, 4803 west Woodmere
road.
I have been sworn in.
I am here to present our appeal to the Variance Review
Board, dated June 10, 2008.
Reasons for my appeal are as follows: Reasons for
denial were arbitrary and capricious, the variance
board did not address issues pertaining to current
building hardships associated with the existing
elevation and setbacks of the structure, variance
board also did not take into account the presence of
other two story detached garage buildings which
encroach on setbacks either previously built or under
construction in the immediate Beach Park neighborhood.
I would like to thank the City Council for their time
in hearing this appeal.
The appeal sounds complex.
It's actually quite straightforward.
We would like to add a partial second story to our

existing three-car garage.
We are restrained from doing so as many of our other
neighbors in Beach Park have done due to the elevation
of our home.
In order to be granted a height variance, we also need
to reapply for the current setbacks of the structure.
In effect, need to ask for the building to be placed
exactly where it was previously built in 1998.
The setsbacks applied for on the variance are the ones
that we currently have for the structure.
Asking for them again is a bit of a formality.
Only changes that we are seeking to make to the garage
is to increase a portion of the roof height by 10
feet.
We have a long narrow lot.
I have a picture on the overhead, which necessitated
the building of a detached garage at the rear of the
property.
You can see it from the photo.
It is rather wedged into the back corner of the lot
with a triangle open space.
I would like to take a minute to clarify the actual

measurements of our easement.
I was not questioned about this detail during the
variance hearing.
However, it's important to verify the measurement for
this record.
In the exhibits that we applied for in the variance
petition, we applied for 20, 3, 7 and 1.
It actually not the case.
The side yard setback is actually 2-foot 6, not one as
seen through the lot.
The garage wall appears to sit on the side property.
In fact the adjacent property is ours.
That would be the ground just below the eaves and
gutters of the roof.
And I'm unclear as to why the garage was set in this
manner.
However, it may have to do with the placement of some
oaks and some power lines in this area.
So what I am saying is effectively the corner lot line
goes from here down here, the setback of 2.61.
The petition for variance contains five points.
First, the alleged hardships for difficulties are

unique and singular with respect to the property, or
with respect to the structure building thereon as the
person requesting the variance and not those in common
with other structures or buildings similarly located.
True.
The difficulties we face are unique and reflect our
property and our respect for the structure in
question.
As I stated in my response, our existing site is at 10
feet above sea level.
The variance is necessary to increase storage space
above the garage.
Code currently allows for Heights 15 feet, and in so
we should not be penalized for having a newer
structure with better subprotection.
The form does not allow much detail.
Our property was built up in 1998 to the elevation of
ten feet.
Average elevation of homes in Beach Park is just under
five feet for detached garage such as ours the height
restriction in the building code means our structure
height cannot exceed its current level of 15 feet.

If we lived on an average lot an elevation of five
feet, we would have been able to build up an extra
five feet of hate into the attic of the garage without
a variance.
However, the buildup of our lot has restricted use of
our detached structure in our view unfairly.
The practical difficulty is unique and singular with
respect to our property, we have neighbors close by
who have structures without Heights greater than ours.
They simply started at a lower elevation.
The system does not reward the building of safer
homes.
The practical difficulty of us doing something similar
with respect to the structure, we have a long narrow
lot which has an acute triangular corner which
necessitated the placement of the garage at the rear
of the property of an odd angle to the property line.
Variance board did not address the central point of
our appeal, mainly the constraints brought about by
the elevation of our home, nor was I questioned about
this point during hearing.
Second, the alleged hardship for practical

difficulties which would result from failure ran to
the inability to use the land in question for any
reasonable legal use which is consistent with the
surrounding properties, and in conformity with the
provisions of this chapter and included substantially
more mere in convenience for higher financial return.
True.
There are other detached garages that have been
constructed as a second story in our immediate
neighborhood.
These homeowners have been granted the ability to
better use their properties by everything storage
above their garage separate from their homes.
We are restricted in doing so due to the elevation of
our property.
We are also going to make modifications to our
existing structure and those modifications are
consistent with surrounding properties.
Examples.
I compiled a list of homes where some street view,
detached garage and additional second story.
213 south O'Brien, an older concrete home with second

story addition, including a balcony overlooking a
pool.
5040 shore crest, a second story with windows, the
Steinbrenner's former residents.
809 idlewood, detached three car garage with
additional story.
823 south Bayside drive, detached garage, two story
patio balcony facing the water.
16:44:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Was this evidence that came out to the VRB?
Is this in the record?
16:44:17 >>> The one that I mentioned is under construction.
But I was questioned about the point there being other
structures in the neighborhood and I replied, yes,
there were.
16:44:26 >> And did you reply specifically which ones they were
at the time?
16:44:29 >> I mentioned the one being built on the corner of
grove park and Bayside.
16:44:34 >> With regard to the ones you have just mentioned
were those brought to the attention of the VRB?
16:44:39 >> Um no,.

Not the specific addresses.
Should I continue?
I believe I was not allowed to put anything more on
there or add, merely elaborating there are other
structures that exist in our neighborhood.
16:44:53 >> Did you say you are were not allowed?
16:44:56 >> I can't present anything on the overhead.
I can't change the visual presentation.
16:45:01 >> Beyond that, I believe you can put in evidence, it
also all TV as well.
16:45:08 >> I was elaborating on the point that there were
other structures.
That I did bring up.
16:45:19 >> Well, we do have the rule we are confined to the
record below, and I think the information didn't come
in from below.
16:45:26 >> I'll keep going.
Okay.
First, the answers would not substantially interfere
with or injury the health, safety or welfare of others
whose property would be affected by allowance of the
variance.

True.
None of the neighbors notified on the list of property
owners within 250 feet came forward during the meeting
to contest our plan.
In fact I had many verbal offers support including
offers to speak at the Variance Review Board on June
10th.
I live in a neighborhood which means everyone works
very hard.
Knowing that meeting might run late into the evening I
thanked them for the offer but told them I believed it
would not be necessary for them to spend their
valuable time at this meeting.
No one has come to me personally to raise objections
or to view the plans.
As my case was not heard until close to eleven I
believe that I made the right choice in declining
their attendance at the meeting.
However it is clear that none of those on the list
voiced any objections to the proposed addition.
The review from parks and rec department shows no
grand trees will be affected by construction. In fact

the proposed zin particularly accommodates the one
tree canopy in the area, which is this one here, and
the plan accommodates the one.
It is in harmony and serve it is support of the Tampa
comprehensive plan.
Allowing the will allow substantial injustice being
done that the benefits by this chapter and the
individual hardships.
To grant a variance, true.
First we feel we should be allowed to use our property
in a manner consistent with our neighbors.
Without this variance we suffer loss of use when
compared with them.
I want to move on.
This has been a long meeting.
I would like to address the sole objection to our
variance request meaning the appearance of Margaret
Vizzi representing Beach Park homeowners association.
She was the -- they were the sole contesters to the
plan.
There is no attempt made by the peach park homeowners
association or any of their representatives to contact

us concerning our petition prayer to the variance
board meeting of June 10th, 2008. In fact Ms.
Vizzi states that our petition was reviewed by the
association quote at our board meeting in April.
As you can see from the aerial photograph, the garage
in question lies in the rear of our property quite
hidden from the Street and from the neighbors' view.
There's in a way that any member of the Beach Park
homeowners association could have adequately viewed
this structure or its interior short of trespassing.
The review was conducted at a distance and they made
no attempt to contact us or have us present at said
board meeting so that we could have an adult
discussion concerning our plans that they would not
take up the valuable time of the city government.
With specific objections raise it by the Beach Park
homeowners association, Ms. Vizzi states, the bottom
line is we do oppose it because it would not be in
compliance with the rest of the neighborhood.
Our plans for this addition were drawn up precisely to
stay in character with our existing homes, and not
detract from current architecture or that of the

neighborhood.
I live in an area of two story homes.
Our home is not the largest nor the most lavish.
There is no amount of significant continue instruction
in the Beach Park area in the past two years and many
of those homes make ours look modest by comparison.
However, I would like to point out that the peakout
height of our roof is upwards ever 45 feet with the
chimney that rises another ten.
Our neighbors on three sides have similar structure
Heights.
Our corner's neighbor's yard is a story and a half.
And the piece of our garage here is at 15 feet.
Currently, there is greater than 30-foot differential
between these two structures.
The addition of another ten feet of height to our
garage, which is what we are asking for here, would
still leave us substantially under the height of our
existing home. In fact the piece of the garage would
be approximately 20 feet under the roof line of our
main home.
In closing, I ask that the City Council reverse the

decision of the variance review board June 10th,
2008, case VRB 08-59.
Thank you for your time.
16:49:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Based on the facts presented here today, which speak
directly to the -- well, they were spoken.
Do I need to elaborate?
16:50:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
Council, you only have four members
here.
16:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Well, based on the facts brought to
us today, I would like to move to remand this back to
the VRB for them to consider it more carefully.
What are our options, Mr. Shelby?
To remand?
16:50:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
You can remand with direction.
You have the following choices.
The City Council in reviewing the decision of the
board of commission may either affirm the board or
commission's decision, may remand the matter to the
board, or commission, for further proceedings, with
direction on how the board or commission failed to
comply with the above standards when they overturned

the decision of the board thereby granting the
petition.
So if you remand it, it would be with specific
instruction.
16:50:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I would like to move to overturn
the board's decision based on the fact that I feel
that this piece of property does meet the standards of
dealing with a very unique, irregular situation, and
the specifically specific material present dad by the
petitioner seems to me to -- that they do have a
hardship.
It won't affect the trees.
It won't be visible from the street.
And it seems like to me it meets the guidelines.
So I move to allow this.
16:51:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, there's only four members here.
I would hate the petitioner to lose the ability to
receive the seven-member council instead of four,
because if one member votes against you, that's it.
FINE.
No more.

So what I am saying, we are holding one.
And I would like to hold this to get the full
council's input into this.
There has been some conversation going on between the
two attorneys.
Although I can only speculate what is on, I would
rather have the full council to hear the item, and
they can certainly review the tapes, so that I think
greater opportunities are given either way.
16:52:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
So to close the public hearing.
16:52:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
(off microphone) I think allow it to
remain open, otherwise, a council member who would
have questions, might have questions, or watch it on
tape, may not have opportunity to ask questions if it
were reopened.
So my recommendation would be to continue it to a date
and time certain.
16:52:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Is the garage accessible to the
back or to the front of the house?
16:52:49 >>> Neither.
It is detached.
16:52:50 >> How do you drive your car there?

You don't have that much land on each side.
16:52:55 >>> No, we don't.
There is a long, narrow driveway here.
And basically there is barely enough room to pull your
car in and back into the garage.
There's a concrete pad turnaround.
It's a little -- if you take a look --
16:53:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
The two garage doors you have
there.
16:53:22 >>> Take a look -- you have to look at these pictures.
Here is an open concrete pad and these are open.
The entrance to the house is over here.
Okay.
So that's the best way to put it.
Drive your car down.
It is extremely narrow and tight through here.
As you can see part of the garage is actually cut off.
And that's how wedged out we are.
We are extremely fortunate after looking around Beach
Park I feel even more fortunate to have an extremely
large lot.
We have a tremendous amount of open space and most of

our neighbors, the structures are in different areas.
There is actually quite a large amount of green space.
So it looks on paper close on paper.
It's actually not when you get there. Really it's
only a partial of it but it's an odd triangle.
16:54:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
My motion would be to continue this
until 1:30 on the 4th.
16:54:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Second.
16:54:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
September 4th at 1:30.
16:54:30 >>> What would happen then?
16:54:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
(off microphone)
There are two members of City Council that are
missing.
If you wish to have the hearing continued, or if you
wish to have them -- the motion before the council now
is to continue this to September 4th to have the
opportunity for the remaining council members to view
this tape.
Of course they would have reviewed the record
previously that you would have provided and then come
back if they have additional questions to ask you at
that time.

16:55:07 >> So what you are saying is they would be voting even
though they didn't see this presentation?
16:55:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
They will have seen this presentation
by September 4th.
16:55:17 >> Okay.
16:55:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
And they will have the opportunity to
take additional testimony and ask questions.
You do have the right, if it is your desire, to have a
vote today.
You can ask that council vote, although you are --
sorry?
16:55:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Council, if we vote today, 3 to
1, however it goes, it's still got to come back to us.
16:55:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
No.
16:55:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
It would have to come back.
16:55:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
It would come back just for the
purposes of a vote, and the council would have -- but
even in that case the council sometimes in the past
has reopened the public hearing to ask questions that
may have been raised.
16:56:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
It's been a very long day.
I withdraw my motion to continue it.

I move that we vote in an attempt to move it ahead.
I would completely agree with that.
I would move it ahead.
I went through the variance board. I completely
agree.
16:56:17 >>> I will take my chances.
16:56:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
Move to close the public hearing.
16:56:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
If that's council's --
16:56:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Move to close the public hearing.
16:56:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
If you close the public hearing and
it's a 2-2 vote, I don't know how the vote is going to
be.
It could be 4-0.
It could be 3-1.
It could be 1-3.
Then what happens with the other three council
members?
16:56:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
What will happen is it will continue
to the next regular council meeting, which is the
4th.
The hearing will be closed.
They will be asked to review this tape in advance, and

be ready to vote on that date.
16:56:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Also, all the council members --
16:56:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Mr. Chairman, what we are doing
here is taking two bites out of the apple.
We are going to vote on something that may or may not
pass and this has been going on since April.
What is the harm to September the 4th when all of
us, and we take one bite at the apple and have been
knows what's going on.
Now we are going to either vote one way or the other,
in disrespect of the other three colleagues that are
not here and then vote again.
We are just doing this thing twice.
It's not fair to the petitioner.
It not fair to the neighborhood.
It's not fair to all of us.
We have got to vote twice.
And it's not fair. Let's say I vote no.
And it's 3-1.
Got to go again.
16:57:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
We have to take our chances.
16:57:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Call the question.

16:57:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
If I were on that side of the aisle
I wouldn't take that chance.
16:57:51 >>> At this point I'm willing to.
I'm fine with it.
16:57:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I call the question on the motion.
16:57:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Fine with taking the vote today?
16:57:57 >>> Fine with taking the vote today.
16:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
The motion --
16:58:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
To close the public hearing.
16:58:04 >> Second.
(Motion carried)
16:58:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
I make a motion to override the
recommendation of the variance board.
16:58:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
And the basis for that would be --
16:58:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
The basis is the substantial
competent evidence put forth by the petitioner, and
the fact that I feel that the VRB didn't fully
consider the irregularities of the lot, and the
hardship imposed on the petitioner.
16:58:48 >> Okay.
Motion by councilman Caetano, seconded.
All in favor?

Opposes?
16:58:59 >>> Thank you.
16:59:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
New business?
Nana.
We have item 94 that we need take T take off the
agenda.
So do we have a motion for that?
16:59:12 >> So moved.
16:59:13 >> Second.
(Motion carried).
16:59:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Again, wasn't the item supposed to
come back to us?
16:59:18 >> 1113 east Cumberland Avenue.
You have requested that the.
16:59:35 >> The petition come back and the ordinance be a
4(COP-X). That was Mr. Bentley's case.
Ordinance has been prepared.
And if council wishes to move with it.
16:59:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Yes.
Councilman Caetano can read that.
16:59:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
An ordinance making lawful the
conditional sale of beverages regardless of alcohol

content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption
on premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
tract of land located at 1103 east Cumberland Avenue,
Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
distance based upon certain findings, certain
conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
conflict, providing an effective date.
17:00:22 >> Second.
17:00:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It's been moved and seconded.
All in favor signify by saying Aye.
Opposes?
(Motion carried).
17:00:30 >>THE CLERK:
Motion carried with Miller, Dingfelder
and Mulhern being absent at vote.
Second reading of the ordinance would be held
September the 4th at 9:30 a.m.
17:00:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Councilman Miranda, new business.
17:00:42 >> Yes, sir.
I would like to make a motion to present the
commendation to trey WAPP for obtaining the eagle
scout status, the son of Fred and Anna, and she's

appointee to the board of citizen advisory.
17:01:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It's been moved and seconded.
(Motion carried).
17:01:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I have two other items.
You want to say thank you for the night out against
crime in Ybor city park.
They handed out school bags and school material, and
Jerry Scaglione and all those fine people in the
different organizations throughout West Tampa at
Macfarlane Park.
And to the lien can gardens Culver city organization
for inviting us to it opening of their fine location.
Let me also say, Mr. Chairman, that there's a place
called triangle park which is really not a park, it's
part of a land between MacDill and Himes, on gray,
and it's irregular shaped property, not a park, they
don't have a name for it.
We have been in communication with some of the people,
association of oakford park neighborhood association,
and they are very much in favor of naming that
irregular triangle shaped land on behalf of Katherine
Achevaria and was president of the neighborhood,

served wonderfully, led the charges and many things
that happened in that area and I would like to see if
that can be amended to make it named after her, and
they are willing to come up with some donations to put
the sign up.
17:02:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
It's been moved and seconded.
(Motion carried).
17:02:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
One on the thing of great
importance is, you know when things change from one
subject matter, and I want to thank all those in the
public who are with us today, when we go on these
reports, specifically in the restaurant business, and
you go from a very small amount, five or ten, that
sometimes fall in the cracks, and reporting, the
classification to the city, we changed this in
December of '07, Mr. Chairman.
Now, because there's in a more notice sent out or
there was a notice sent out during the holiday at
Christmas, it has now gone up to 43%.
And that would take an enormous amount of city staff
time, and our time, to have another hearing here, and
I'm not complaining about the fine.

What I'm saying is the alternative is this.
We send out -- if you put out 274 locations at 41
cents, it would cost $102.34 to send two notices out.
You're the man.
$204.68.
And under the new postage, it would cost roughly less
than $500 a year to notify these people.
I would like to have legal see if they can work out on
this one time only where our failure in
communications -- you know, if we as an official
forget to send something out to the state, or even
if -- I know we don't do that, but on your taxes, to
the federal government, you have an extension.
Then after that, you get slapped, and then you get
fined.
But here right now, I would like the legal department
see if they can work and rectify this on one-time
basis, so that the failure won't be 43%.
These are good hard working people, and I don't know.
99% of them.
But I'm saying is that it's not right to find $500.
And we said that.

But I'm not trying to change that, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to see a notification being -- we have
all kinds of computers that can tell when they pay,
within a month or two month find out who is missing.
Send them a notification.
That's what I would like to do, Mr. Chairman, if
possible.
17:05:03 >> Second.
17:05:06 >> Do you have a time?
17:05:08 >> I would like it as quick as possible because they
are asking for that $500, quite frankly, very soon.
17:05:13 >> When did you want that to come back on the agenda?
17:05:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Well, whatever time -- I don't want
to --
17:05:19 >> September 4?
17:05:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
September 4 sounds like a good time
to me.
17:05:25 >> It's been moved and seconded.
All in favor?
Opposes?
17:05:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
17:05:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
No.

17:05:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
What's your title going to be,
Mr. Miranda?
Hispanic man of the year?
Is that it?
17:05:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Yes, sir.
17:05:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Congratulations.
17:05:43 >>> Thanks very much.
17:05:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
Okay.
I have the resolution asking Congress to increase the
research for cure for food allergies.
17:05:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
Second.
17:05:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
I made the motion.
17:05:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
No problem, sir.
She made the motion, I second.
17:06:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
All in favor?
Opposes?
So moved.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
17:06:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
One last clean-up item.
I have been asked to ensure that item number 94 was
removed from the agenda.

17:06:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
I believe we did that.
17:06:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
We need to receive and file,
Mr. Chairman?
17:06:20 >> Motion to receive and file.
17:06:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
Second Ms. Saul-Sena's motion.
17:06:23 >> All in favor signify by saying nigh Aye.
Anything else come before council?
Tomorrow morning at 10 a.m.
Please.
He's going to take care of that.
All right?
We stand adjourned.
Thank you.
(City Council meeting adjourned)

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