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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2021
9:00 A.M. WORKSHOP



DISCLAIMER:

THIS FILE REPRESENTS AN UNEDITED VERSION OF REALTIME
CAPTIONING WHICH SHOULD NEITHER BE RELIED UPON FOR
COMPLETE ACCURACY NOR USED AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT.
ANY PERSON WHO NEEDS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE
PROCEEDINGS MAY NEED TO HIRE A COURT REPORTER.

08:56:14

09:01:41 [SOUNDING GAVEL]

09:01:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.

09:01:49 I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THIS TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP TO

09:01:52 ORDER.

09:01:54 INSTEAD OF AN INVOCATION, I KNOW COUNCILMAN GUDES WAS

09:01:58 GOING TO HANDLE THAT.

09:01:59 WE ARE GOING TO DO -- WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE A MOMENT

09:02:02 OF SILENCE.

09:02:08 (MOMENT OF SILENCE)

09:02:13 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:02:14 IF YOU COULD PLEASE STAND AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF

09:02:16 ALLEGIANCE.

09:02:17 [ PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ]

09:02:21 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

09:02:36 >>LUIS VIERA: HERE.

09:02:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.

09:02:38 >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.




09:02:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: HERE.

09:02:42 >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.

09:02:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.

09:02:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.

09:02:48 >>THE CLERK: WE HAVE A FIZZ PHYSICAL QUORUM.

09:02:51 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MR. SHELBY.

09:02:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

09:02:54 GOOD MORNING AND TO MEMBERS OF TAMPA CITY COUNCIL.

09:02:57 MARTIN SHELBY, THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.

09:02:59 TODAY IS FEBRUARY 25th OF 2021, AND WE ARE HERE THIS

09:03:03 MORNING FOR A WORKSHOP OF CITY COUNCIL, AND BECAUSE OF

09:03:09 THE COVID-19 STATE OF EMERGENCY, THE WORKSHOP WILL BE

09:03:13 CONDUCTED AND IS BEING CONDUCTED WITH A LIVE IN-PERSON

09:03:17 QUORUM OF CITY COUNCIL PRESENT IN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS.

09:03:21 HOWEVER, IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS MEMBERS

09:03:23 OF THE PUBLIC ARE ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE VIRTUALLY

09:03:26 THROUGH VIDEO TELECONFERENCING WHICH IS REFERRED TO BY

09:03:30 FLORIDA STATUTES AND RECALLS AS COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA

09:03:33 TECHNOLOGY, OR CMT.

09:03:35 THIS MEETING IS HELD IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE EMERGENCY

09:03:37 RULES OF PROCEDURE ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL BY RESOLUTION

09:03:41 NUMBER 2020-225 AS AMENDED BY RESOLUTION NUMBER 220-490.

09:03:48 THE PUBLIC AND THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF TAMPA ARE ABLE

09:03:50 TO WATCH, LISTEN AND VIEW THIS MEETING ON CABLE TV AT

09:03:54 SPECTRUM CHANNEL 640, FRONTIER 15, AND ON THE INTERNET AT




09:04:00 TAMPA.GOV/LIVESTREAM.

09:04:04 NOW, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE ABLE TO VIRTUALLY

09:04:06 PARTICIPATE IN THIS MEETING USING CMT BY MULTIPLE

09:04:10 METHODS, BESIDES CMT, WRITTEN COMMENTS BY THE INTERNET OR

09:04:16 WEB, WRITTEN COMMENTS BY MAIL, LEAVING A VOICE MAIL

09:04:20 MESSAGE FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, AND BY SPEAKING

09:04:23 REMOTELY USING CMT FROM A REMOTE LOCATION BY

09:04:27 PREREGISTERING, AND AGAIN, THAT INFORMATION FOR THE

09:04:31 PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE VIRTUALLY AND

09:04:35 PREREGISTER IS AVAILABLE AT TAMPA.GOV/CITY COUNCIL, ONE

09:04:40 WORD.

09:04:41 NOW, FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO

09:04:44 COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA DEVICE, THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF

09:04:49 CHOOSING TO COME TO TAMPA CITY COUNCIL OLD CITY HALL AND

09:04:54 PARTICIPATE WITH CMT DEVICE WHICH IS AVAILABLE TO THE

09:04:58 PUBLIC DURING THE MEETING AT THE SECOND FLOOR OF OLD CITY

09:05:03 HALL, 315 EAST KENNEDY BOULEVARD.

09:05:06 PLEASE NOTE THE USE OF MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING INSIDE

09:05:10 THE BUILDING ARE REQUIRED.

09:05:12 NOW, COUNCIL HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE WRITTEN

09:05:17 COMMENTS DISTRIBUTED TO YOU AND WILL BE MADE PART OF THE

09:05:22 RECORD.

09:05:23 PUBLIC COMMENTS, PRERECORDED OR IN PERSON USING CMT WILL

09:05:28 BE HEARD AT THE START OF THE MEETING AT THE DIRECTION OF

09:05:30 CITY COUNCIL.




09:05:31 WRITTEN COMMENTS AS I SAID HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED AND WILL

09:05:34 BE INCLUDED IN THE PERMANENT RECORD OF THE MEETING.

09:05:38 AND THAT CONCLUDES MY COMMENTS.

09:05:41 THANK YOU.

09:05:41 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:05:42 AT THIS TIME WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

09:05:45 IF YOU ARE HERE IN PERSON ON THE SECOND FLOOR, IF YOU

09:05:48 WOULD PLEASE APPROACH THE KIOSK, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES

09:05:52 TO SPEAK.

09:05:53 AFTER EACH PERSON, WE WILL SANITIZE THE MICROPHONE AND GO

09:05:58 ONTO THE NEXT PERSON.

09:05:59 IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK, PLEASE APPROACH THE KIOSK AND

09:06:02 STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

09:06:04 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEN.

09:06:28 DARLA PORTMAN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE TAMPA PBA.

09:06:32 I'M HERE TO MAKE A VOICE FOR MY POLICE OFFICERS, MY

09:06:35 MEMBERS.

09:06:36 I AM GOING TO TELL YOU THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR MEMBERS

09:06:38 ARE TIRED OF BEING BLAMED FOR OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE

09:06:41 BAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

09:06:43 WE ASK AND WE USE OURSELVES IN A PROFESSIONAL MANNER IN

09:06:48 THE CITY OF TAMPA.

09:06:49 WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY.

09:06:50 WE DID IT BEFORE MARCH OF LAST YEAR AND WILL CONTINUES TO

09:06:52 DO THAT THE WAY.




09:06:53 IN FLORIDA LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS SEVERAL AGENCIES INVOLVED

09:06:56 IN AN OFFICER DISCIPLINED.

09:06:57 WE ARE THE MOST SCRUTINIZED PROFESSION IN THE WHOLE

09:07:00 ENTIRE COUNTRY.

09:07:01 IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, WE HAVE INTERNAL AFFAIRS AND

09:07:04 BODY WORN CAMERAS, WE HAVE THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

09:07:06 THAT HAS THE BRADY'S LIST AND ALSO LOOKS AT OUR

09:07:10 SHOOTINGS.

09:07:12 THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE STANDARDS AND TRADE COMMISSION DOES

09:07:15 OUR CERTIFICATION.

09:07:16 THEY ALSO IMPOSE DISCIPLINE ON TOP OF WHAT THE DEPARTMENT

09:07:19 IMPOSES ON OFFICERS.

09:07:20 WE HAVE FDLE THAT DOES OUR SHOOTINGS AND LOOKS AT

09:07:24 CRIMINAL MATTERS BUT WE HAVE THE MEDIA, THE NEWS, AND WE

09:07:27 HAVE THE CRB BOARD.

09:07:31 CHAPTER 943 OF THE BOARD ESTABLISHES THE FDLE CRIMINAL

09:07:36 JUSTICE PROFESSIONAL DIVISIONS, AGENCIES MUST SUBMIT IA

09:07:40 FINDINGS TO THE COMMISSION, THE COMMISSION WILL

09:07:42 INVESTIGATE AND IMPOSE ADDITIONAL PERSPECTIVE DISCIPLINE

09:07:44 ON TOP OF THE DISCIPLINE FROM THE DEPARTMENT.

09:07:47 THE COMMISSION CAN ALSO SUSPEND, REVOKE AND DECERTIFY

09:07:51 EVEN IF THE DEPARTMENT WISHES TO RETAIN THE OFFICER.

09:07:53 COMMISSION MEETS MORE THAN -- MEETS EVERY THREE MONTHS

09:07:56 AND THE PC HEARINGS ARE IN BETWEEN EACH COMMISSION

09:07:59 MEETING.




09:08:00 PROBABLE CAUSE.

09:08:01 THE COMMISSION ALSO DOES THE CURRICULUM REVISION AND

09:08:04 IN-SERVICE TRAINING, CONTINUOUS REVISION AND A STATE WIDE

09:08:07 POLICIES AND PROCEDURES AND TRAINING FOR ALL.

09:08:13 THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD KEEPING

09:08:18 THEM SAFE.

09:08:24 THE REVENUE DECREASES, VISITORS STOP COME HERE.

09:08:28 BEING A POLICE OFFICER IS NOT A JOB FOR EVERYONE.

09:08:31 IT'S MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY TOUGH ON THE HUMAN BODY.

09:08:34 WE HAVE TO ENFORCE LAWS AND SOMETIMES DOING OUR JOB MEANS

09:08:36 PEOPLE GET MAD.

09:08:37 NO ONE LIKES TO GET CAUGHT VIOLATING THE LAW.

09:08:40 NO ONE LIKES TO GET A TICKET, GO TO JAIL, OR BE

09:08:43 CONFRONTED BY THE POLICE.

09:08:44 WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

09:08:45 WHEN YOU ARE ON THAT SIDE TO BECOME THE -- WE BECOME THE

09:08:51 BAD GUYS, AND YOU WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BLAME IT

09:08:54 ON US, SO WE HAVE TO ENFORCE THE LAW.

09:08:57 WE HAVE TO DO OUR JOBS.

09:09:00 NOT ALL OFFICERS ARE BAD.

09:09:02 AND WE TRY TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

09:09:05 WE DO MAKE MISTAKES AND WE ARE HUMAN.

09:09:07 AS THE PBA PRESIDENT, I HAVE HAD THE ISSUES OF TELLING

09:09:12 OFFICERS THAT THEY HAVE GONE OFF THE RESERVATION, THEY

09:09:15 HAVE TARNISHED THE BADGE AND WE WILL NOT DEFEND THEM.




09:09:19 WE DO NOT DEFEND BAD OFFICERS.

09:09:21 I HAVE REVOKED AND SUSPENDED OVER 100 OFFICERS IN THE

09:09:23 STATE OF FLORIDA SINCE BEING APPOINTED BY GOVERNOR

09:09:25 DESANTIS AS CDFCG OFFICERS.

09:09:30 WE DON'T PROTECT BAD OFFICERS IN TAMPA --

09:09:33 [BELL SOUNDS]

09:09:34 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CHAIRMAN.

09:09:42 >> I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO KNOW THAT THE MAYOR HAS GONE

09:09:46 VERY FAR AND SO HAS GINA AND URSULA TO GIVE MORE

09:09:52 COMPLAINT REVIEW BOARD, OR CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:09:54 I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE OKAY WITH THIS

09:09:56 PROPOSAL.

09:09:57 WE'LL STAND BEHIND THE CITY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS, AND

09:10:00 OUR OFFICERS JUST WANT TO WORK FOR YOU GUYS.

09:10:02 THANK YOU.

09:10:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:10:04 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY.

09:10:13 MAY I MAKE A REQUEST, IF I MAY, SIR? WE HAVE JOSH

09:10:16 FELDER, WHO IS A YOUNG MAN FROM BEST BUDDIES WHO IS

09:10:20 WAITING TO GET A COMMENDATION, AFTER LIVE PUBLIC COMMENT.

09:10:24 BUT WOULD YOU PERMIT US TO DO HIS COMMENDATION?

09:10:28 THANK YOU, SIR, I APPRECIATE IT.

09:10:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

09:10:32 OUR NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:10:39 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME, SIR.




09:10:40 >> THIS IS DANNY ALVAREZ, THE LABOR REPRESENTATIVE FOR

09:10:46 THE TAMPA POLICE BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION, WHICH IS THE

09:10:49 PUBLIC UNION THAT REPRESENTS ALL 1,000 RETIREES, ACTIVE

09:10:53 AND RETIRED MEMBERS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HERE IN THE

09:10:56 CITY OF TAMPA.

09:10:57 I COME BEFORE YOU HUMBLY AND REQUEST AS A POSSIBILITY OF

09:11:01 AN EXTENSION IN CASE I BUMP UP INTO MY TIME.

09:11:03 I KNOW THAT'S ALLOWED UPON YOUR APPROVAL.

09:11:06 I COME TO YOU HUMBLY TO SPEAK TO YOU TODAY ABOUT THIS

09:11:11 REVIEW BOARD, AND I WANT TO MAKE SEWING EXTREMELY CLEAR.

09:11:15 THE PBA IS NOT AGAINST THE REVIEW BOARD IN ANY WAY.

09:11:19 IN FACT, THEY ARE ON THE RECORD HAVING ENDORSED IT. IT'S

09:11:23 ACTUALLY QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

09:11:24 SO ANY OPPOSITION YOU MIGHT SEE HERE OR ANY SORT OF

09:11:28 FRICTION YOU HEAR, I JUST THINK THAT'S NOT VERY

09:11:30 WELL-FOUNDED.

09:11:32 WHAT WE HAVE HERE, I HAVE BEEN ON AN ACTUAL CITIZENS

09:11:35 REVIEW BOARD FOR OVER FIVE YEARS, POLICE REVIEW BOARD,

09:11:38 AND ENDORSE THE USE OF THEM.

09:11:41 I THINK THEY HAVE INCREDIBLE VALUE.

09:11:43 I THINK THERE'S A WAY FOR THE CITIZENRY TO GO AHEAD AND

09:11:45 TAKE AND KEEP AN EYE ON THEIR GOVERNMENT AND MAKE SURE

09:11:48 THAT EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING IS HAPPENING CORRECTLY.

09:11:51 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE UNFORTUNATE PART HERE IS WHAT

09:11:53 WOULD BE THE ONE THING THAT'S BEING ASKED OF YOU TODAY IS




09:11:56 TO CHANGE THIS FROM A REVIEW BOARD TO AN INVESTIGATORY

09:12:00 ARM OF THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA.

09:12:03 SO WHAT THEY ARE ASKING YOU TO DO IS CREATE A SUBPOENA

09:12:06 POWER THAT'S FUNDED WITH ATTORNEYS SO THAT THEY CAN THEN

09:12:09 GO OUTSIDE OF THE LAW AND INVESTIGATE ON THEIR OWN, NOT

09:12:13 MEANING THEIR OUTLAWS, I MEAN OUTSIDE OF THE PROCESS.

09:12:16 WHEN DARLA TELLS YOU THAT THIS PROFESSION IS THE MOST

09:12:22 SCRUTINIZED, SHE'S CORRECT.

09:12:23 LET ME LIST IT.

09:12:24 THEY HAVE IA.

09:12:25 THEY HAVE GOT THE CITY ITSELF.

09:12:28 THEY HAVE GOT THE STATE ATTORNEY INVESTIGATING THEM.

09:12:30 THEY HAVE GOT GRAND JURIES.

09:12:32 THEY HAVE GOT FDLE.

09:12:34 THEY HAVE GOT THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENTS WHEN THERE'S ANY

09:12:36 SORT OF CIVIL INJUSTICE THAT GOES ON.

09:12:39 THEY HAVE THE MEDIA THAT SITS HERE TODAY.

09:12:41 THEY HAVE PUBLIC INTEREST GROUPS.

09:12:42 AND THEY HAVE BODY CAMERAS.

09:12:44 AND WHAT I BRING TO YOU IS THAT EVERY SINGLE TIME THERE'S

09:12:47 A REQUEST THAT SAYS WE WANT TRANSPARENCY, COPS TURN

09:12:50 AROUND AND GO, WE WANT IT, TOO.

09:12:52 AND THEY THEN SUBMIT, YOU WANTED FDLE, THEY GOT FDLE,

09:12:58 THAT NOW INVESTIGATES THE CITY OF TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT

09:13:01 AND I'M TOLD WHEN I AM SPEAKING ON A CONFERENCE WITH ACLU




09:13:04 WHICH I RESPECT VERY, VERY MUCH, I AM TOLD THAT'S NOT

09:13:06 ENOUGH, WE CAN'T TRUST THEM, NOW WHY?

09:13:09 BECAUSE THEY ARE COPS.

09:13:10 WE CAN'T TRUST THE STATE ATTORNEY BECAUSE HE'S PART OF

09:13:12 THE SYSTEM.

09:13:13 WE CAN'T TRUST CAMERAS WELL, BECAUSE THEY TELL THE TRUTH.

09:13:16 SO THE UNFORTUNATE PART IS, EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GET SOME

09:13:20 LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY, IT'S NOT ENOUGH AND WE MOVE THE

09:13:23 BALL.

09:13:24 NOW COMES INVESTIGATIONS.

09:13:25 WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED, AND

09:13:29 EVERYWHERE WE GO, I'M TOLD, WELL, DANNY, WE HAD THESE

09:13:32 REVIEW BOARDS FOR TEN YEARS IN OTHER COUNTIES.

09:13:34 AND THEN I SUBMIT TO YOU, COUNCIL MEMBERS, IF THAT'S

09:13:36 TRUE, WHY DO THOSE COUNTIES CONTINUES TO HAVE THE SAME

09:13:39 PROBLEMS WE DO, BUT THEY ARE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN, THEY

09:13:42 HAVE GOT SUBPOENA POWERS IN THERE, AND WHAT ARE THEY

09:13:46 ACCOMPLISHING?

09:13:46 TODAY, WE HAVE A CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:13:50 IT TELLS ME THAT IT HAS NO BITE.

09:13:52 THE CRITICISMS HAVE NO BITE, IT HAS NO TEETH.

09:13:55 I'M TELLING YOU THAT THEY JUST DON'T BITE.

09:13:57 THEY HAVE THE ABILITY RIGHT NOW TO GET EVERYTHING THAT

09:13:59 THEY WANT ACCOMPLISHED.

09:14:01 THEY CAN GO OUT AND FIND OUT, THEY CAN GO REVIEW.




09:14:04 NOTHING STOPS THEM FROM INVESTIGATING AND ASKING

09:14:07 QUESTIONS.

09:14:07 THIS IS A GRASP THAT IS TOO FAR.

09:14:11 WHEN DOES IT STOP?

09:14:12 WHEN DO WE SAY LISTEN, WE HAVE A SYSTEM, IT'S NOT

09:14:17 PERFECT.

09:14:17 YOU KNOW WHY IT'S NOT PERFECT?

09:14:19 BECAUSE IT'S MADE BY PEOPLE AND IT'S ENFORCED BY PEOPLE

09:14:21 SO WE HAVE TO CHECK THEM.

09:14:23 AGAIN, WE ARE ALL FOR THIS BOARD.

09:14:26 WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE BOARD.

09:14:28 WHAT WE HAVE IS WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STOP, WHEN DO WE

09:14:31 TELL A POLICE OFFICER, LISTEN, YOU HAVE BEEN

09:14:34 INVESTIGATED, YOU HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY

09:14:36 AND AT SOME POINT WE HAVE GOT TO STOP.

09:14:39 WE ARE FOR TRANSPARENCY.

09:14:40 NOBODY, AND I DON'T CARE HOW MANY TIMES YOU LAUGH AT IT,

09:14:43 NOBODY HATES BAD COPS MORE THAN COPS, AND NO ONE GOES

09:14:46 AFTER BAD COPS MORE THAN COPS.

09:14:48 YOU MIGHT THINK THAT THAT'S A BAD STATEMENT OR THAT IS

09:14:53 WRONG BECAUSE YOU CAN HEAR THE LAUGHTER IN THE BOARD, BUT

09:14:55 WHAT WE HAVE GOTTEN ON THE -- NOT ON THE BOARD BUT ON THE

09:14:58 DAIS, IN THE PUBLIC, BUT WHAT YOU HAVE GOT IS A SYSTEM

09:15:02 THAT OVERWHELMINGLY PROVES THAT THE SUPER MAJORITY OF

09:15:04 POLICE OFFICERS DO THE RIGHT THING, AND WHEN THEY GET IN




09:15:07 TROUBLE, THEY GET IN TROUBLE PRETTY HARD.

09:15:09 AND POST 2020, THERE'S NOTHING, THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S

09:15:12 GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT IN THIS DAY AND AGE ESPECIALLY

09:15:15 WITH ALL OF THE SCRUTINY.

09:15:16 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU.

09:15:17 >> WHAT WE ARE ASKING IS FOR YOUR SUPPORT, WE SUPPORT THE

09:15:20 MAYOR'S POSITION THAT SHE PUT FORWARD, AND WE THANK YOU

09:15:23 FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

09:15:24 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:15:24 >> THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

09:15:26 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:15:47 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEN.

09:15:50 JAMES STAR AND JAMIE CLAPPLE WITH THE CIVIL LIBERTIES

09:15:54 UNION.

09:15:56 WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TEN MINUTES BETWEEN THE TWO OF US?

09:16:02 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: IS THERE ANY OBJECTION?

09:16:04 THEY ARE REPRESENTING ACLU.

09:16:05 ANY OBJECTIONS?

09:16:06 COUNCIL, THEY WILL BE TOGETHER IN THAT TEN MINUTE PERIOD.

09:16:09 ALL RIGHT.

09:16:09 GO AHEAD, SIR.

09:16:10 TEN MINUTES.

09:16:10 >> THANK YOU, SIR.

09:16:12 FIRST, WE ARE VOLUNTEER ATTORNEYS, WE ARE NOT BEING PAID

09:16:15 TO BE HERE.




09:16:15 WE STEPPED UP BECAUSE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WERE

09:16:19 INTERESTED IN SEEING THE EXCHANGE MADE AND IT REQUIRED A

09:16:23 LOT OF NAVIGATION, VERY COMPLICATED LEGAL THINGS THAT THE

09:16:28 AVERAGE PERSON WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO.

09:16:29 SO WE SPENT HOURS AND HOURS UNCOMPENSATED TRYING TO GUIDE

09:16:34 THE CITY COUNCIL ON THIS ISSUE.

09:16:36 THERE ARE 13 DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES IN FLORIDA THAT

09:16:39 HAVE SOME FORM OF CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:16:44 I'M COUNTING 13.

09:16:45 THERE MAY BE MORE.

09:16:46 BUT I WANT TO READ TO THE COUNCIL LANGUAGE FROM THE

09:16:49 DAYTONA BEACH ORDINANCE WHICH SAYS, THIS BOARD IS CREATED

09:16:52 TO ASSIST IN MAINTAINING THE CONFIDENCE OF THE CITIZENS

09:16:56 THAT HIGH LEVEL INTERNAL DISCIPLINARY INVESTIGATIONS OF

09:16:59 ALLEGED POLICE OFFICER MISCONDUCT REGARDLESS OF THEIR

09:17:02 SOURCE, ARE BEING THOROUGHLY AND OBJECTIVELY INVESTIGATED

09:17:05 AND RESOLVED.

09:17:06 I CAN'T POSSIBLY STATE IT BETTER THAN THAT.

09:17:08 THE REASON TO HAVE A CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD IS TO HAVE A

09:17:11 BOARD THAT IS COMPRISED OF CITIZENS, NOT MEMBERS OF LAW

09:17:14 ENFORCEMENT BUT MEMBERS OF CITIZENS THAT CAN TALK TO THE

09:17:17 CITIZENRY ABOUT TRUST IN THE PROCESS.

09:17:22 THAT TRUST IS VITAL TO A COMMUNITY.

09:17:24 I WOULD POINT THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TO THE DEPARTMENT

09:17:28 OF JUSTICE'S CITIZENS REPORT WHERE THEY SHOW ABOUT




09:17:32 INSTANCES LIKE WOMEN CALLING POLICE FOR DOMESTIC PARTNERS

09:17:36 FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ONLY TO END UP GETTING ARRESTED

09:17:40 THEMSELVES FOR VIOLATING OCCUPANCY CERTIFICATES THAT ONLY

09:17:43 TWO PEOPLE CAN LIVE IN THIS APARTMENT, BUT THERE ARE

09:17:46 THREE.

09:17:46 THOSE WOMEN SAID THEY WOULD NOT CALL THE POLICE AGAIN IN

09:17:48 THE FUTURE.

09:17:49 ONE OF THEM SAID EVEN IF I WERE BEING KILLED I WOULD NOT

09:17:52 CALL THE POLICE BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST THEM.

09:17:54 SO THAT MAKES IT A DANGEROUS PLACE TO LIVE WHERE PEOPLE

09:17:57 ARE AFRAID TO CALL THE POLICE, WHERE JURORS ARE

09:17:59 DISTRUSTFUL OF THE TESTIMONY OF A POLICE OFFICER, IT CAN

09:18:03 RESULT IN POSSIBLY DANGEROUS DEFENDANT GOING FREE.

09:18:06 THAT TRUST IS VITAL AND IT NEEDS TO BE THERE BETWEEN THE

09:18:09 COMMUNITY AND THE POLICE.

09:18:11 AND THESE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS HELP TO DO THAT.

09:18:15 IN THE MEMO THAT WE CIRCULATED IN FOOTNOTE ONE WE HAVE A

09:18:18 LINK TO A YOUTUBE VIDEO WHERE WE SYNCHRONIZED SELF

09:18:22 iPHONE VIDEOS TAKEN UP ON SCOTT STREET. IF THAT VIDEO

09:18:26 YOU WILL SEE A POLICE OFFICER WALKING DOWN THE STREET AND

09:18:28 JUST CASUALLY SPRAYING TEENAGERS AND 20-SOMETHING KID IN

09:18:32 THE FACE WITH PEPPER SPRAY, WITH ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE THAT

09:18:35 THEY DON'T TRUST THE PROCESS ENOUGH TO BRING A COMPLAINT,

09:18:38 AND IF THEY DID, NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM.

09:18:41 IT TURNS OUT HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE FIRST PART.




09:18:43 I DON'T BELIEVE ANYBODY MADE A COMPLAINT.

09:18:45 BUT IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT SOME OF US CAN ONLY ENVISION

09:18:51 THAT THIS WOULD BE SOME KIND OF MECHANISM THE R TO

09:18:53 DISCIPLINING OFFICERS.

09:18:54 THE BOARD WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DISCIPLINE OFFICERS.

09:18:57 ALL IT WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IS SPEAK TO THE COMMUNITY

09:18:59 ABOUT WHETHER THEY CAN OR CAN'T TRUST THE RESULT OF AN

09:19:04 INTERNAL INVESTIGATION.

09:19:05 THERE WILL BE ANOTHER SHOOTING.

09:19:06 THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ABUSE OF AUTHORITY THERE.

09:19:10 WILL BE ANOTHER INCIDENT IN THIS COMMUNITY.

09:19:13 WHAT IS UP FOR GRABS IS WHETHER THERE WILL BE A VOICE

09:19:15 THAT CAN SAY TO THE COMMUNITY, HAVE BEEN CALM DOWN, WE

09:19:18 ARE GOING TO BE INVESTIGATED, AND WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT

09:19:21 BOARD, WE ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE ARE

09:19:24 NOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE ARE OF THE CITIZENS, WE WILL

09:19:26 TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AND WE WILL TELL YOU IF YOU CAN TRUST

09:19:28 THE RESULTS.

09:19:29 AND YOU CAN TRUST US TO DO THAT.

09:19:31 BUT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, IT HAS TO BE

09:19:34 INDEPENDENT.

09:19:34 NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, ABOUT THE

09:19:38 DRAFT ORDINANCE, IS THAT IT TALKS ABOUT REVIEWING

09:19:41 INCIDENTS THAT HAVE RESULTED IN CERTAIN DISCIPLINES, BUT

09:19:44 I SUBMIT TO THE PANEL THAT INCIDENTS THAT DON'T RESULT IN




09:19:47 DISCIPLINE ARE MORE TROUBLING TO THE COMMUNITY AND MORE

09:19:49 LIKELY TO CAUSE VOLATILITY.

09:19:52 IT IS NOT CONVICTIONS THAT CAUSE RIOTS, IT'S ACQUITTAL

09:19:56 THAT CAUSE RIOTS.

09:19:58 SO THE ORDINANCE DOES NEED TO BE CHANGED TO MATCH WHAT

09:20:01 OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HAVE WHERE THE ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE

09:20:05 BEING MADE, NOT WHETHER OR NOT DISCIPLINE WAS --

09:20:14 THE INDEPENDENCE IS ALSO VERY NECESSARY IN TERMS OF

09:20:18 WHETHER THE MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR OR BY LAW

09:20:21 ENFORCEMENT.

09:20:22 IF IT'S NOT PERCEIVED BY THE PUBLIC AS INDEPENDENT, IT

09:20:25 CAN'T SPEAK WITH THAT VOICE AND SAY, YOU CAN TRUST US TO

09:20:28 TELL YOU WHETHER TO TRUST THEM.

09:20:30 YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A PowerPoint PRESENTATION THAT

09:20:32 POINTS TO ORLANDO AND ST. PETE.

09:20:34 THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO IN THE STATE WHERE EVERYBODY IS

09:20:36 APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR AND THEY ARE NOT TRULY

09:20:39 INDEPENDENT.

09:20:40 OF THE 13, DAYTONA BEACH AND GAINESVILLE, ALL THE MEMBERS

09:20:45 ARE APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL.

09:20:46 KEY WEST IS SIMILAR.

09:20:47 THERE'S FOUR APPOINTED BY COUNCIL AND FOUR APPOINTED BY

09:20:52 THE OTHER THREE, TO GIVE MORE EXAMPLES, MIAMI IS 13, TEN

09:20:57 BY THE CITY COMMISSIONERS, TWO BY THE MAYOR, ONE BY THE

09:21:00 POLICE CHIEF.




09:21:00 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, EACH COMMISSIONER APPOINTS ONE, 13,

09:21:05 ORANGE COUNTY, THERE'S NINE, SEVEN APPOINTED, ONE BY EACH

09:21:09 COMMISSIONER AND TWO BY THE SHERIFF.

09:21:11 FT. LAUDERDALE HAS NINE.

09:21:12 THREE BY THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND SIX BY THE CITY

09:21:15 COMMISSION.

09:21:16 FORT MYERS HAS NINE, SEVEN BY CITY COUNCIL AND ONE BY THE

09:21:19 MAYOR.

09:21:20 TAMPA IS UNIQUE IN THAT RIGHT NOW IT HAS THE MAYOR HAS

09:21:23 HALF PLUS ONE, THE PROPOSED IS FOR HALF MINUS ONE.

09:21:27 IT DESTROYS THE INDEPENDENT CHARACTER OF THE CITIZENS

09:21:30 REVIEW BOARD THAT IS NECESSARY FOR IT TO HAVE THE

09:21:32 CREDIBILITY TO SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE AND SAY, YOU CAN OR

09:21:35 YOU CANNOT TRUST THE RESULTS OF THIS DISCIPLINARY PROCESS

09:21:40 LIKE THE DAYTONA BEACH ORDINANCE.

09:21:41 I AM GOING TO GIVE THE REST OF MY TIME TO MY COLLEAGUE.

09:21:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

09:21:45 YES, MA'AM.

09:21:46 >> THANK YOU.

09:21:49 AND I JUST WANT TO ECHO WHAT JAMES SAID ABOUT WE ARE

09:21:53 VOLUNTEER ATTORNEYS HERE AND WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND

09:21:56 EFFORT OUT OF THE LIMITED TIME THAT WE HAVE, AND WE THINK

09:21:59 IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

09:22:00 AND I KNOW THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ALSO CEMENT A

09:22:03 LOT OF TIME WORKING ON THIS, AND WE DO APPRECIATE THE




09:22:06 PROGRESS THAT WE HAVE MADE WITH THEM, BUT AS JAMES SAID,

09:22:10 THERE ARE JUST A FEW MORE ITEMS THAT WE THINK ARE REALLY

09:22:13 CRUCIAL TO MAKING SURE THAT THIS REVISED ORDINANCE

09:22:16 PROVIDES A PLATFORM FOR THE CRB TO FUNCTION EFFECTIVELY.

09:22:21 AND ONE THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS THE INDEPENDENT

09:22:25 COUNSEL.

09:22:27 RIGHT NOW, THE CURRENT DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE PROVIDES

09:22:31 FOR AN ATTORNEY THAT WORKS WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S

09:22:34 OFFICE TO ADVISE THE CRB, AND WE APPRECIATE THAT THE

09:22:39 LATEST DRAFT PROVIDES THAT THAT ATTORNEY CANNOT ALSO

09:22:45 ADVISE THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THAT IS CERTAINLY

09:22:48 BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, BUT WE THINK HAVING

09:22:51 AN OUTSIDE ATTORNEY WHO DOES NOT WORK FOR THE CITY IN ANY

09:22:53 OTHER CAPACITY IS REALLY THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY FOR THE

09:22:58 COUNCIL TO MAINTAIN INDEPENDENCE AND AVOID THE LIKELIHOOD

09:23:02 OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, BECAUSE THE C RB KIND OF

09:23:07 CRUCIAL MISSION IS TO SEEK OUT THE TRUTH EVEN IF THE

09:23:10 TRUTH MAY EXPOSE THE CITY TO LIABILITY.

09:23:13 SO IF YOU HAVE AN ATTORNEY WHO WORKS FOR THE CITY FULL

09:23:16 TIME AND THE CITY IS THAT ATTORNEY'S CLIENT, AND THAT

09:23:22 LEADS TO ADD HELICOPTERS CONFLICT.

09:23:24 WE THINK HIRING OUTSIDE ATTORNEY ON A PART-TIME BASIS, AT

09:23:27 A REDUCED HOURLY RATE WOULD BE A VERY MINIMAL COST TO THE

09:23:30 CITY AND IT WOULD DO WONDERS TO BE PROVIDE CRB WITH THE

09:23:35 INDEPENDENCE THAT IT NEEDS TO FUNCTION EFFECTIVELY AND




09:23:37 HAVE CREDIBILITY IN THE COMMUNITY.

09:23:39 I ALSO WANT TO BRIEFLY TOUCH UPON THE ISSUE OF SUBPOENA

09:23:42 POWER.

09:23:44 THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF MISINFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE CRB

09:23:49 SUBPOENA POWER WOULD MEAN, AND WE ARE ASKING FOR THE

09:23:53 ORDINANCE TO BE REVISED TO PROVIDE FOR THE CRB TO HAVE

09:23:57 SUBPOENA POWER OVER CIVILIANS, NOT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT,

09:24:00 NOT ANY CITY EMPLOYEE, NOT THE CITY ITSELF.

09:24:03 SO IF AN INCIDENT HAPPENED AND A RING DOORBELL CAMERA

09:24:07 CAPTURES IT, BUT THAT PERSON DOESN'T WANT TO VOLUNTARILY

09:24:10 GIVE OVER THAT FOOTAGE, WE THINK THE CRB SHOULD BE ABLE

09:24:14 TO VOTE ON ISSUING A SUBPOENA FOR THAT FOOTAGE, OR IF

09:24:19 THERE'S A CIVILIAN WITNESSES TO AN INCIDENTS OR

09:24:21 SURVEILLANCE CAMERA FOOTAGE, THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS

09:24:24 WE THINK ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOT FORECLOSE THE CRB

09:24:27 FROM BEING ABLE TO COLLECT INDEPENDENTLY, AND BEING ABLE

09:24:30 TO COLLECT INDEPENDENT INFORMATION IS CRUCIAL AGAIN FOR

09:24:34 THE CRB TO BE ABLE TO FUNCTION EFFECTIVELY, AND ORANGE

09:24:37 COUNTY, BROWARD COUNTY, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, KEY WEST, AND

09:24:41 THE CITY OF MIAMI ALL HAVE POLICE OVERSIGHT BODY THAT HAS

09:24:46 SUBPOENA POWER.

09:24:47 SO THIS IS NOT UNPRECEDENTED.

09:24:48 THIS IS NOT A RADICAL IDEA.

09:24:50 THIS IS JUST GETTING TAMPA IN LINE WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER

09:24:53 MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES IN THE STATE.




09:24:56 AND SO THOSE ARE REALLY THE MAIN ITEMS THAT WE WANTED TO

09:24:59 ASK YOU TO PLEASE CONSIDER INCORPORATING INTO THE REVISED

09:25:03 ORDINANCE AND WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

09:25:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:25:26 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:25:34 THANK YOU.

09:25:35 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

09:25:36 >> MY NAME IS TIFFANY HILT ON, A SECOND YEAR LAW STUDENT

09:25:42 AT STETSON.

09:25:42 I AM VERY INTERESTED IN LOCAL POLITICS.

09:25:45 AND PARTICULARLY THE REHABILITATION OF THE REPUTATION OF

09:25:48 POLICE AMONG CITIZENS.

09:25:50 THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT

09:25:53 DIRECTION, BUT IT'S BY STRENGTHENING THROUGH A FEW

09:25:59 CHANGES WE CAN AMPLIFY ITS IMPACT AND BRING IT CLOSER TO

09:26:02 ITS MISSION STATEMENT.

09:26:03 YOU ARE GOING TO HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE TODAY EXPLAIN

09:26:05 HOW WE CAN TRANSFORM THE CRB INTO A SUBSTANTIVE REVIEW

09:26:09 BOARD THAT PROVIDES FOR SOCIETAL CHANGE.

09:26:12 THINGS LIKE ESTABLISHING INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY FOR THE CRB

09:26:15 SO THEY CAN ACT FREE OF INFLUENCE FROM THEIR EMPLOYER WHO

09:26:18 IS CURRENTLY THE CITY OF TAMPA.

09:26:21 THINGS LIKE REDUCING THE NUMBER OF APPOINTMENTS MADE TO

09:26:23 THE BOARD BY THE MAYOR, THINGS LIKE GIVING THE CRB

09:26:28 SUBPOENA POWER, THE PBA HAS BEEN CITING FALSEHOODS BUT




09:26:32 THE PROPOSED CHANGES WOULD GIVE THE CRB SUBPOENA POWER

09:26:35 OVER INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS, BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE.

09:26:38 THIS SUBPOENA POWER WOULD GIVE CRB MEMBERS POWER TO ISSUE

09:26:42 SUBPOENAS TO INVESTIGATE OFFICER RELATED INCIDENTS AND

09:26:45 WOULD NOT EXTEND TO INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS.

09:26:48 WHAT I WANT TO EXPLAIN IS WHY WE SHOULD STRENGTHEN THE

09:26:51 CRB.

09:26:52 IN THE 19 CITY STUDY IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT THE TAMPA

09:26:55 POLICE DEPARTMENT PAID OUT $3.8 MILLION IN SETTLES ALSO

09:26:59 BETWEEN 2006 AND 2011.

09:27:02 TPD WAS NOT NUMBER ONE IN THE AMOUNT OF SETTLEMENT MONEY

09:27:05 PAID IN THIS STUDY, BUT WHAT TPD WAS NUMBER ONE IN WAS

09:27:09 THE PERCENTAGE OF THE SETTLEMENT MONEY THAT WENT TO CIVIL

09:27:13 RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.

09:27:15 99.3% OF ALL SETTLEMENT MONEY WAS PAID TO PLAINTIFFS FOR

09:27:20 THE VIOLATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS.

09:27:24 1.8 MILLION HAS BEEN PAID OUT BY TPD SINCE 2016 FOR THE

09:27:28 MISUSE OF K-9s ALONE.

09:27:31 IN 2019, 17 CASES WERE VACATED DUE TO THE MISCONDUCT OF

09:27:36 JUST THREE TPD OFFICERS.

09:27:38 THERE HAS BEEN A 24% INCREASE IN USE OF FORCE FROM 2017

09:27:43 TO 2019 UNDER CHIEF DUGAN.

09:27:46 THE PBA CLAIMS THAT A STRONGER MORE SUBSTANTIVE CRB WILL

09:27:51 DETER BRIGHT CANDIDATES FROM SEEKING EMPLOYMENT WITH TPD.

09:27:54 THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE IN CITIES AROUND FLORIDA WHO




09:27:57 HAVE CRBs WITH THE POWER THAT THE ACLU IS FIGHTING FOR.

09:28:02 DAYTONA BEACH GRANTS ALL SEVEN APPOINTMENTS TO THE CITY

09:28:05 COMMISSION AND MIAMI'S MAYOR APPOINTS ONLY TWO OF 13

09:28:08 POSITIONS TO THEIR BOARD.

09:28:09 THESE CHANGES AREN'T RADICAL LIKE THE PBA IS CLAIMING.

09:28:13 THESE CHANGES TOUCH TO THE REST OF THE STATE.

09:28:16 THE PBA CHANGES WILL FORCE OFFICERS INTO EARLY RETIREMENT

09:28:20 AND PREVENT THEM FROM DOING THEIR JOBS.

09:28:22 IF I DRIVE MY CAR NEGLIGENTLY, I AM SUBJECT TO CIVIL

09:28:26 ACTION AND FACE INVESTIGATION.

09:28:29 THIS DOESN'T MAKE ME A WORSE DRIVER.

09:28:30 THIS MAKES ME A MORE VIGILANT CONSCIOUS DRIVER.

09:28:34 I AM NOT AFRAID TO DRIVE MY CAR, NOR DO I CUT MY TRIPS

09:28:37 SHORT BECAUSE I'M AFRAID OF CRIMINAL OR CIVIL

09:28:40 INVESTIGATION.

09:28:41 I JUST TAILOR MY BEHAVIOR TO PREVENT MYSELF FROM

09:28:44 VIOLATING THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS.

09:28:46 DETERRENCE IS THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND OUR LAWS, AND THERE'S

09:28:49 NO REASON THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS SHOULD BE LESS

09:28:52 ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS THAN YOU OR I.

09:28:55 IF WE GET THESE INVESTIGATIONS, WE BENEFIT EVERYONE IN

09:28:59 THE CITY OF TAMPA, WE CAN REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY PAID

09:29:01 OUT FOR SETTLEMENTS AND NO MATTER WHERE YOU STAND WE CAN

09:29:05 ALL AGREE THAT THIS IS A GOOD THING.

09:29:07 WE CAN PAY OFFICERS MORE AND GET THOSE BRIGHT YOUNG




09:29:10 RECRUITS.

09:29:11 WE CAN PROVIDE MORE COMPREHENSIVE AND BETTER TRAINING FOR

09:29:13 POLICE OFFICERS.

09:29:14 OR AS CITY COUNCILMAN JOHN DINGFELDER PROPOSED, WE CAN

09:29:18 INVEST A MILLION DOLLARS INTO DEVELOPING AN ALTERNATE

09:29:21 CRISIS RESPONSE PROGRAM.

09:29:23 WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER HEARING TO DECIDE WHAT TO SPEND THE

09:29:26 MONEY ON BUT THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT STEP IS TO

09:29:29 MAKING THE SETTLEMENTS LESS COMMON BECAUSE OF THE

09:29:32 STRONGER BOND BETWEEN TPD AND THE COMMUNITY THAT IT

09:29:34 SERVES.

09:29:35 THERE ARE ARGUMENT THAT THE CRB WILL COST TOO MUCH BUT I

09:29:38 COUNTER THAT THE CRB WILL SAVE US TONS OF MONEY.

09:29:41 WE CONSTANTLY HEAR FROM POLICE OFFICERS IF WE HAVE

09:29:44 NOTHING TO HIDE WE SHOULDN'T BE WORRIED.

09:29:45 I PROPOSE THAT THE TPD PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH AND LET

09:29:49 THE COMMUNITY HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE FOR MEANINGFUL

09:29:52 DISCUSSION ON HOW TO MOVE FORWARD.

09:29:54 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:29:55 >> THANK YOU.

09:29:57 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT SPEAKER, IF YOU COULD STATE

09:30:16 YOUR NAME, SIR.

09:30:16 >> MY NAME IS CLAY DANIELS.

09:30:22 I LIVE 37 -- NORTH BAY TAMPA, FLORIDA.

09:30:25 I BEEN COMING UP HERE FOR 25 YEARS, AND YOU ALL HAVE NOT




09:30:29 DONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE LOUD MUSIC PROBLEM.

09:30:32 AND I FEEL LIKE IF I LIVED IN DAVIS ISLAND, NEW TAMPA, I

09:30:35 WOULD HAVE GOT A LOT OF HELP.

09:30:36 AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST LOOK AT THINGS.

09:30:39 CHIEF DUGAN, HE'S THE CHIEF.

09:30:41 AND THEN YOU HAVE GOT CITY COUNCIL.

09:30:42 YOU ALL HAVE THE POWER TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS NOISE.

09:30:45 AND IF YOU ALL DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM, YOU

09:30:47 ALL ARE GUILTY AS THE ONE CAUSING THE PROBLEM.

09:30:52 I TRIED TO WORK VERY HARD.

09:30:54 YOU ALL OUGHT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM.

09:30:57 WE DID A PETITION.

09:30:58 WE ARE COMPLAINING.

09:30:59 WE WENT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR HELP.

09:31:00 A MAN CAN GO TO THE MOON.

09:31:02 I KNOW YOU ALL CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS LOUD MUSIC.

09:31:05 THIS PROBLEM IS OUT OF CONTROL.

09:31:06 PEOPLE CAN'T SLEEP.

09:31:07 I KNOW THE CHIEF SLEPT LAST NIGHT AND THE MAYOR, THEY ARE

09:31:11 SLEEPING GOOD.

09:31:11 WHY CAN'T WE SLEEP?

09:31:13 PEOPLE ON DAVIS ISLAND, NEW TAMPA SLEEPING.

09:31:15 WE WANT TO SLEEP, TOO.

09:31:16 I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL DISCRIMINATION.

09:31:21 THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL DISCRIMINATION WHEN YOU ALL DON'T




09:31:24 DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM.

09:31:25 AND I WOULD LIKE DON'T LIKE TO PLAY THE RACIAL CARD

09:31:30 BECAUSE I KNOW IF I LIVE ON DAVIS ISLAND, NEW TAMPA, THIS

09:31:35 PROBLEM IS WAY OUT OF CONTROL.

09:31:36 THIS IS ENVIRONMENTAL, ENVIRONMENTAL, DISCRIMINATION.

09:31:39 AND YOU ALL NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM.

09:31:41 CITY COUNCIL SAID THEY ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING.

09:31:45 I ASKED THEM TO GET WITH THE CHIEF.

09:31:46 I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING.

09:31:48 LIKE I SAID, THE CHIEF HAS THE POWER TO GET WITH ALL THE

09:31:52 POLICE DEPARTMENT, ALL THE DISTRICTS, THEY CAN DO

09:31:55 SOMETHING ABOUT THIS NOISE.

09:31:56 LIKE I SAID, THEY CAN GO TO THE MOON, THEY CAN DO

09:31:59 SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM, AND THAT BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,

09:32:02 BOOM, THAT THUMPING, IS VERY ANNOYING.

09:32:05 IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE DON'T CARE.

09:32:10 YOU SEE WHAT IT SAY?

09:32:14 PEOPLE DON'T CARE.

09:32:15 I MEAN, PEOPLE NEED TO CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S

09:32:18 FEELINGS.

09:32:19 PEOPLE ARE PAID TO DO A JOB, AND THEY PAY GOOD MONEY, AND

09:32:22 THEY NEED TO DO THEIR JOB AND LOOK OUT FOR THE LITTLE

09:32:26 MAN.

09:32:26 THIS NOISE IS OUT OF CONTROL.

09:32:29 AND SEEM LIKE NOBODY WON'T LISTEN.




09:32:32 ALL WE HEAR IS TALK AND NO ACTION.

09:32:35 AND ARE WE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THIS PROBLEM?

09:32:38 WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE POLICE TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM,

09:32:41 GET THIS MONEY TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM, BECAUSE YOU ALL

09:32:44 CAN FIND MONEY -- YOU ALL CAN FIND MONEY FOR EVERYTHING

09:32:48 ELSE.

09:32:48 YOU ALL CAN FIND MONEY TO HIRE POLICE FOR TEN HOURS TO

09:32:52 TAKE CARE OF THIS PROBLEM.

09:32:54 IT'S AN ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM.

09:32:55 IT IS KILLING PEOPLE.

09:32:57 IT'S DETRIMENTAL.

09:32:59 TO YOU ALL, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.

09:33:01 BUT IT'S A BIG DEAL TO US BECAUSE WHERE WE LIVE, IT'S ALL

09:33:04 WITH WE HERE.

09:33:06 SLEEP WITH EARPLUGS OWN AT NIGHT.

09:33:08 THIS NOISE IS OUT OF CONTROL.

09:33:09 AND SOMETIME I THINK YOU ALL DON'T LISTEN.

09:33:13 I THINK ALL THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS NEED TO GET WITH THE

09:33:16 CHIEF AND HAVE IF CHIEF TO GET WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

09:33:19 TO CRACK DOWN ON THIS NOISE.

09:33:21 AND LIKE I SAY, IF THE CHIEF DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS

09:33:24 NOISE, HE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE ONE WHO IS CAUSING THE

09:33:27 PROBLEM.

09:33:28 THANK YOU.

09:33:28 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.




09:33:29 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CHAIRMAN, I KNOW ITEM NUMBER 4

09:33:47 DEALS WITH NOISE ORDINANCE TODAY.

09:33:49 I KNOW THAT MY OFFICE DID SUBMIT SOME INFORMATION OF THE

09:33:53 EXPERT THAT DEALS WITH NOISE.

09:33:56 SUBMIT IT TO LEGAL.

09:33:58 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, SIR, I HAVE IN THE FRONT OF ME.

09:34:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES: AND COUNCIL IS WORKING.

09:34:03 WE HEAR YOU BUT SOMETIMES COUNCIL IS LIMITED IN ITS

09:34:06 EXECUTION OF CERTAIN THINGS IN THE CITY.

09:34:08 AND THE POLICE CHIEF DOESN'T WORK FOR COUNCIL, WORKS FOR

09:34:12 THE MAYOR.

09:34:13 I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

09:34:14 ALSO, I KNOW MR. CHAIRMAN SAID HE HAS INFORMATION, SO WE

09:34:17 WILL DISCUSS THIS, AND SEE HER RECOMMENDATION, WHAT SHE'S

09:34:22 DONE.

09:34:22 SO THANK YOU.

09:34:23 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:34:24 YES, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.

09:34:25 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

09:34:25 >> MY NAME IS DAVE SIMINOFF, A TAMPA RESIDENTS.

09:34:32 I AM HERE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY IF

09:34:35 YOU VOTE FOR MORE INDEPENDENCE FOR THE CRB.

09:34:39 BASICALLY, I WANT TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE DONE

09:34:42 FOR THE PEOPLE OF TAMPA WHEN YOU LOOK FOR MORE

09:34:45 INDEPENDENCE.




09:34:45 FIRST OFF YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU BELIEVE IN MORE

09:34:47 ACCOUNTABILITY.

09:34:48 YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE COMMUNITY ITSELF CAN HAVE THE

09:34:51 TOOLS AND THE INDEPENDENCE IT NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THAT

09:34:57 CLAIMS FAIRLY AND ACCURATELY REVIEWED IN A TIMELY MANNER.

09:35:01 SECONDLY, YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THE ABILITY

09:35:04 OF THE COMMUNITY TO LOOK AFTER ITS BEST INTERESTS, NOT

09:35:07 FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO CLAIM TO LOOK OUT FOR THE BEST

09:35:12 INTERESTS OF THE COMMUNITY AND ITS BEHALF.

09:35:16 THIRD, YOU ARE DEMONSTRATING TRUST, WELCOMING INDEPENDENT

09:35:18 REVIEW.

09:35:19 YOU ARE SAYING BASICALLY WHAT A LOT OF THE LAW

09:35:21 ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE ARE SAYING TODAY, THAT ACCOUNTABILITY

09:35:25 AND RESPONSIBILITY ARE PROOF.

09:35:28 YOU ARE SAYING THERE IS A BETTER WAY TO DO IT THAN WHAT

09:35:30 WE ARE DOING NOW.

09:35:31 YOU ARE ALSO SAYING THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THIS WILL NOT

09:35:35 AFFECT POLICE PERFORMANCE.

09:35:36 NOTHING BEING PROPOSED FOR MORE INDEPENDENCE FOR THE CRB

09:35:41 WILL HINDER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM DOING THEIR

09:35:44 JOBS NO TIMELY, RESPONSIBLE, ROBUST, EFFECTIVE MANNER,

09:35:49 AND NOTHING BEING DISCUSSED TODAY WILL HURT MORALE.

09:35:52 IN FACT, IT MIGHT HELP EVEN.

09:35:55 BECAUSE I KNOW THAT MY FELLOW LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS

09:36:00 ARE GOING TO BE HELD TO THE SAME HIGH STANDARDS THAT I




09:36:02 WANTS FOR MYSELF.

09:36:04 YOU ARE ALSO SAYING THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THIS IS A BEST

09:36:07 PRACTICE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

09:36:08 ALL OVER THE STATE, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, THIS IS A MODEL

09:36:12 FOR WHAT'S BEING DONE.

09:36:14 AND IT WORKS.

09:36:16 DON'T ASK ME.

09:36:21 LOOK AT THE RESEARCH I HAVE DONE.

09:36:22 YOU ALSO SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO RAISE TAXES.

09:36:26 THIS PROPOSAL MERELY RESTRUCTURES AND GIVES A LITTLE BIT

09:36:29 MORE TEETH TO THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD THAN ALREADY

09:36:32 EXISTS.

09:36:32 FINALLY, YOU WILL NOT BE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE ANY VALUE

09:36:35 JUDGMENT ON THE GOOD WORK THAT THE TPD DOES.

09:36:38 YOU ARE BASICALLY NOT BLAMING ANYONE.

09:36:40 YOU ARE JUST AGREEING WITH WHAT A LOT OF THE SPEAKERS

09:36:43 HAVE SAID HERE TODAY, THAT ACCOUNTABILITY IS IMPORTANT,

09:36:46 AND THERE IS A BETTER WAY TO DO IT.

09:36:49 THANK YOU.

09:36:49 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

09:36:53 WITH

09:36:56

09:36:56

09:37:02 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:37:03 >> MY NAME IS KAREN MOONEY AND I AM A RESIDENT OF TAMPA.




09:37:14 AND I AM HERE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS REVIEW

09:37:19 BOARD.

09:37:21 I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, SO I AM

09:37:25 HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES, BECAUSE

09:37:31 WHAT A CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD MEANS IS THAT COMMUNITIES

09:37:33 SHOULD AND ACTUALLY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE POLICE

09:37:36 DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, SERVE AND PROTECT IS

09:37:39 THEIR MOTTO, RIGHT?

09:37:41 SO WE BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE CONTROL OVER

09:37:44 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

09:37:44 SO SOME OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES THAT I AM SPEAKING OUT IN

09:37:48 SUPPORT OF IS DECREASING THE APPOINTMENTS MADE BY THE

09:37:52 MAYOR, BECAUSE HAVING FIVE SEATS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A

09:37:56 LACK OF TRUST IN THE PUBLIC, AND AS MEMBERS OF ACLU

09:38:01 POINTED OUT EARLIER, THERE'S ALREADY SEVERAL CRBs IN

09:38:05 THE STATE OF FLORIDA THAT ARE DOING WHAT'S BEING

09:38:08 PROPOSED.

09:38:09 SO IT'S NOT AS THEY MENTIONED, IS NOT A RADICAL REQUEST.

09:38:13 MAKING THE ATTORNEY INDEPENDENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THIS IS

09:38:16 A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO HAVE AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY

09:38:22 AS AN ADVISER, AGAIN THAT'S GOING TO BE CONFLICT OF

09:38:25 INTEREST, LACK OF TRUST FROM THE COMMUNITY.

09:38:27 ALSO, THE SUPPORT OF ADDING SUBPOENA POWER FOR NON-LAW

09:38:31 ENFORCEMENT MEMBERS, AS AGAIN SEVERAL CRBs IN THE STATE

09:38:36 OF FLORIDA ARE ALREADY DOING THIS.




09:38:39 AND LET'S SEE, WE WANT TO LIMIT FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT

09:38:45 PARTICIPATION IN THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:38:48 YOU MAKE IT AS NONBIASED A POSSIBLE.

09:38:52 AND ALLOW CRB WITH A 50% VOTE AND NOT LIMIT MATTERS TO

09:38:57 CERTAIN DISCIPLINE.

09:38:58 SO THESE PROPOSED CHANGES WOULD ENHANCE PUBLIC TRUST OF

09:39:00 THE TPD WHICH I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT AFTER WHAT'S

09:39:05 HAPPENED IN THE YEAR 2020, IT NEEDS SOME FIXING AND

09:39:09 REPAIRING OF THE COMMUNITY TRUST SO THESE PROPOSALS WOULD

09:39:13 HELP IN THAT DIRECTION.

09:39:14 IT WOULD GIVE THE PUBLIC A MEANINGFUL VOICE.

09:39:17 AND THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS THAT THERE WOULD BE DECREASED

09:39:20 MORALE AND DETERRENCE OF RECRUITMENTS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT,

09:39:24 BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF THIS, SO THERE'S CLAIMS BEING

09:39:27 MADE THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR.

09:39:30 SO IN THE END, LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD NOT JUDGE THEIR

09:39:33 OWN, BUT THE PEOPLE OF TAMPA HAVE A MEANINGFUL SEAT AT

09:39:38 THE TABLE BECAUSE IN THE END IT'S GOING TO PIT THE

09:39:42 COMMUNITY AND THE POLICE, AND I WILL REITERATE WHAT THE

09:39:44 LAW STUDENT SAID, IT WOULD SAVE A LOT OF MONEY, TOO.

09:39:47 SO THAT'S IT.

09:39:47 THANK YOU.

09:39:48 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:39:55 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:40:05 YES, SIR.




09:40:08 GO AHEAD.

09:40:08 >> MY NAME IS ANGEL D'ANGELO, BORN AND RAISED RIGHT HERE

09:40:13 IN TAMPA, FLORIDA.

09:40:14 I'M HERE TO ELEVATE WHAT PAST SPEAKERS SAID.

09:40:16 WHEN I WAS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL HERE IN TAMPA, FLORIDA,

09:40:19 OFFICER FRIENDLY USED TO TELL US IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO

09:40:22 HIDE, THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

09:40:24 THAT'S THE MANTRA OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BUT THEY ARE

09:40:27 SO AFRAID TO DELIVER ON ACCOUNTABILITY, A SLIVER.

09:40:30 HONESTLY, THIS BARELY SCRATCHES THE SURFACE TO WHAT WE

09:40:34 NEED.

09:40:34 I THINK WE NEED AS A SOCIETY AND A COMMUNITY TO STAY ON

09:40:37 THE MESSAGE OF REFUND THE COMMUNITY.

09:40:39 WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST YEAR IN THE CITY COUNCIL

09:40:41 ELECTED NOT TO DO SO, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS FIGHT

09:40:45 HONESTLY.

09:40:45 YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT BY NOW.

09:40:46 WE NEED HEALTH CARE.

09:40:48 WE NEED HOUSING.

09:40:49 WE NEED FOOD.

09:40:50 WE NEED SERVICES.

09:40:51 WE NEED ALL KINDS OF PROGRAMS, NOT CONNECTED TO TPD, WE

09:40:57 NEED PROGRAMS THAT WILL GO OUT AND SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS

09:41:01 BECAUSE WHAT THE POLICING SYSTEM IS DOING IS CAUSING

09:41:04 RECIDIVISM AND CAUSE THE PROBLEMS TO IGNITE BECAUSE




09:41:07 THAT'S WHAT THEY DO BEST.

09:41:08 THE VERY LEAST THAT CITY COUNCIL CAN DO IS APPROVE THESE

09:41:13 CHANGES THAT ARE GOING TO DO JUST A VERY SMALL STEP

09:41:15 TOWARDS THE POSSIBILITY OF TRANSPARENCY AND STILL WON'T

09:41:18 DO ENOUGH.

09:41:19 WE HAVE TO FIGHT A LOT HARDER.

09:41:21 THIS CITY COUNCIL IS SERVING TO HAVE A CHOICE OF WHAT

09:41:24 THEY WANT TO BE.

09:41:26 RIGHT NOW, YOU AND THE PBA AND THE TAMPA POLICE

09:41:30 DEPARTMENT, MOST ESPECIALLY CHIEF DUGAN, ARE GUARDIANS OF

09:41:34 OPPRESSION.

09:41:34 SO YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT FUTURE YOU WANT TO HAVE.

09:41:37 ALL FEBRUARY, THIS MONTH, BLACK HISTORY MONTH, YOU WANT

09:41:40 TO TALK ABOUT DR. KING, AND WHEN VENESSA MAC CLEARY WAS

09:41:44 HERE, FORMER HOUSING, I WISH WE COULD HAVE DONE MORE TO

09:41:47 HELP YOU.

09:41:48 YOU COULD.

09:41:49 IT'S CALLED THE BUDGET.

09:41:51 YET YOU ELECT TO GIVE TPD 13 MILLION MORE WHEN THE PEOPLE

09:41:55 HAVE BARELY 13 MILLION IN THE COMMUNITY.

09:41:58 SO FOR THE POLICING THAT WE HAVE, MOST OF THEM DON'T EVEN

09:42:01 LIVE HERE, INCLUDING DUGAN, REGULATE THAT CRB TO WHERE WE

09:42:04 HAVE MORE TRANSPARENCY, AND THE ABILITY.

09:42:07 THIS IS NOT THE MOST SCRUTINIZED PROFESSION.

09:42:10 PBA IS OBVIOUSLY LIVING IN A FANTASY LAND.




09:42:14 THEY ALWAYS HAVE.

09:42:14 COMMUNITY PATRIOTS PAINTED BLACKS, BLUE, WHATEVER, ON OUR

09:42:19 STREETS ILLEGALLY, NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND IT MAY GO TO

09:42:22 WASHINGTON ON JANUARY 5th.

09:42:27 THE JUSTICE COALITION AND THE ACTIVISTS ON THE GROUND, WE

09:42:31 HAVE NEVER ATTEMPTED AN INSURRECTION BUT THESE PEOPLE

09:42:35 HAVE AND WHY IS THAT?

09:42:37 BECAUSE THEY ARE GUARDIANS OF WHITE SUPREMACY,

09:42:39 PATRIARCHY, HETEROSEXISM, ALL THEISMS THAT YOU DON'T LIKE

09:42:43 HEARING ABOUT AND YOU ARE TIRED OF US TALKING ABOUT.

09:42:46 IT'S NEVER GOING TO CHANGE UNTIL WE DO SOMETHING

09:42:48 RADICALLY DIFFERENT.

09:42:51 GIVING THE CRB MORE POWER IS NOT THE RADICAL CHANGE WE

09:42:54 NEED BUT IT IS CHANGE THAT I DO SUPPORT SO WE GET THE

09:42:58 CHANGE THAT WE NEED.

09:42:59 I HOPE THE CITY COUNCIL WILL AT LEAST DO THE RIGHT THING

09:43:01 THIS TIME AND KNOW THAT WE WILL BE OUT THERE DEMANDING

09:43:04 REFUND THE COMMUNITY, AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL

09:43:06 IT'S DONE, UNTIL THE BREATH IS OUT OF MY BODY.

09:43:10 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:43:17 ALL RIGHT, NEXT SPEAKER.

09:43:17 >> JEFF HAWKS.

09:43:28 I REPRESENT A GROUP CALLED THE COMMUNITY PATRIOTS HERE IN

09:43:33 TOWN ABOUT 5,000 STRONG.

09:43:36 HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER BEEN TO A PROTEST?




09:43:42 HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER BEEN DOWN ON THE STREET WHEN THEY

09:43:46 BLOCKED THE ROADS?

09:43:51 I BELIEVE THE ORGANIZATION THAT'S BEHIND THESE CHANGES

09:43:54 REPRESENTED SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT DISRUPTED OUR

09:43:59 COMMUNITY.

09:44:02 STRAW PARK.

09:44:03 JOE, YOU LIVE IN SOUTH TAMPA.

09:44:04 JOHN, WHAT ABOUT SWANN AND HOWARD?

09:44:07 THE CVS.

09:44:10 IT'S TIME YOU REPRESENTED ALL OF THE CITIZENS.

09:44:14 I REPRESENT SEVERAL GROUPS.

09:44:16 THEY WANT YOU TO STAND BY THE LAW, STAND BY THE

09:44:19 CONSTITUTION, BACK THE BLUE.

09:44:23 WE STRONGLY URGE YOU TO CONSIDER THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL AND

09:44:31 STAND WITH THE POLICE UNION.

09:44:33 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:44:33 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

09:44:45 NEXT SPEAKER.

09:45:11 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:45:14 GO AHEAD, SIR.

09:45:25 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

09:45:26 >> KEVIN BENJAMIN.

09:45:36 [NO ENCODER] [NO ENCODER]

09:45:57 ... TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY, WHEN

09:46:00 IT COMES TO EQUALITY AND JUSTICE, STILL HAVE A LONG, LONG




09:46:08 ROAD.

09:46:08 THE SPIRIT OF THAT MESSAGE WAS THE SPIRIT THAT THIS

09:46:13 MOVEMENT FOR CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD BEGAN WITH OVER FIVE

09:46:16 YEARS AGO.

09:46:18 WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH ON A LOT OF THE

09:46:23 PARTICULARS IN REGARDS TO THIS ORDINANCE, BUT IN ESSENCE

09:46:27 WE ARE ASKING FOR A VOICE FOR THE COMMUNITY IN REGARD TO

09:46:33 POLICE, ACCOUNTABILITY, INDEPENDENCE AND TRANSPARENCY

09:46:37 LIKE CITIES ALL ACROSS THE NATION AND ALL ACROSS OUR

09:46:39 STATE HAVE DONE, SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A BETTER

09:46:42 RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE COMMUNITY,

09:46:46 AND THIS IS THE COMMUNITY THAT THE DOJ CONFIRMS, THAT HAS

09:46:52 A PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES ON THE PART OF LAW

09:46:56 ENFORCE MENT IN THIS COMMUNITY.

09:46:59 THIS ALSO BEING BLACK HISTORY MONTH, WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE

09:47:07 ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITY, THE PASSIONATE VOICES THAT YOU

09:47:10 HEARD, AND I KNOW MANY OF YOU ARE SCHOLARS OF HISTORY ON

09:47:13 THIS COUNCIL RIGHT NOW.

09:47:14 I KNOW MANY OF YOU WERE OUT THERE IN THE STREETS DURING

09:47:18 THE LAST SUMMER'S PROTESTS AFTER THIS TRAGEDY WITH GEORGE

09:47:22 FLOYD.

09:47:23 THIS IS WHAT THIS COMMUNITY HAS BEEN PASSIONATELY ASKING

09:47:25 FOR, AND TAKING TO THE STREETS, GETTING GASSED, TO

09:47:30 HAVE -- AND THIS IS AS WAS STATED BY OTHER PEOPLE BEFORE

09:47:34 ME, THIS IS JUST THE VERY FIRST STEP TO BEGIN TO HAVE




09:47:38 THAT VOICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

09:47:40 WE NEED ONE THAT IS INDEPENDENT, ONE THAT WAS SET UP FIVE

09:47:44 YEARS AGO AS WE KNOW, THAT WAS STACKED WITH THE MAYOR'S

09:47:48 APPOINTEES, DID NOT DO JUSTICE TO THE SPIRIT OF THIS

09:47:51 BOARD.

09:47:51 AND THAT IS WHY COUNCILMAN GUDES REQUESTED THAT WE REVIEW

09:47:55 THIS AND CREATE A BOARD THAT ACTUALLY WORKS FOR OUR

09:47:58 COMMUNITY AS ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

09:48:00 I URGE YOU TODAY TO, COUNCIL, YOU DESERVE THE

09:48:05 APPOINTMENTS ON THIS BOARD, AND WE ARE MOVING FORWARD

09:48:07 WITH THE PROCESS, AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A GREAT

09:48:09 DEAL OF WORK ON BOTH SIDES TO COME TO A CONSENSUS ON

09:48:12 WHERE WE NEED TO BE FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

09:48:15 I KNOW MANY OF YOU ARE GETTING TIRED.

09:48:20 WE HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR NINE MONTHS NOW.

09:48:23 WE COULD HAVE HAD A CHILD.

09:48:24 LET'S MOVE FORWARD.

09:48:25 LET'S GET THIS CREATED TODAY THAT WORKS FOR OUR COMMUNITY

09:48:29 SO WE WON'T HAVE TO REVISIT THIS.

09:48:31 WHEN THE NEXT TRAGEDY OCCURS AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE

09:48:33 ENOUGH ACCOUNTABILITY FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

09:48:35 I THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR TIME, CONSIDERATION AND ALL OF

09:48:37 YOUR HARD WORK ON THIS.

09:48:38 THANK YOU.

09:48:38 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.




09:48:45 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:49:02 YES, MA'AM, GO AHEAD.

09:49:03 >> GOOD MORNING.

09:49:06 YVETTE LEWIS, PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY

09:49:10 BRANCH, AND A RESIDENT OF TAMPA.

09:49:14 HAPPY BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

09:49:18 AM I HUMAN?

09:49:19 THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT STARTED IN 1954 BECAUSE OF AN

09:49:25 INHUMANE TREATMENT OF AFRICAN AMERICANS.

09:49:28 THEY ENDURED PREJUDICE, BEATINGS, DISCRIMINATION, JAIL,

09:49:34 AND DENIED BASIC RIGHTS.

09:49:37 WE AFRICAN AMERICANS DID NOT START THIS FIGHT.

09:49:41 WE DID NOT START BIKING WHILE BLACK.

09:49:46 WE DID NOT START DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

09:49:49 WE DID NOT START ILLEGAL SEARCHES.

09:49:53 OR WE DID NOT START STOP AND FRISK.

09:49:57 WE DID NOT ASK TO BE SLAMMED TO THE GROUND.

09:49:59 WE DID NOT ASK TO BE PUT IN THE BACK OF A POLICE CAR FOR

09:50:03 HOURS.

09:50:03 WE DID NOT ASK TO BE SHOT FOR HOLDING A HAIR BRUSH OR A

09:50:08 CELL PHONE.

09:50:10 WE DID NOT START THIS FIGHT WITH TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.

09:50:17 ACCORDING TO THE HISTORY, THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ENDED

09:50:19 IN 1968.

09:50:23 YET IT IS SAD THAT I STAND BEFORE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL




09:50:28 DEMANDING AND BEGGING FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS TO BE TREATED

09:50:32 WITH RESPECT.

09:50:34 I CAN HONESTLY SAY, ACTUALLY, AFRICAN AMERICANS FEARED

09:50:41 THEIR LIVES LONG BEFORE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT LEGALIZED

09:50:46 THAT PHRASE.

09:50:49 I GUESS YOU CAN SAY AFRICAN AMERICANS STARTED "I FEAR MY

09:50:55 LIFE."

09:50:56 AGAIN, WE DID NOT START THIS WITH TAMPA POLICE

09:50:58 DEPARTMENT.

09:51:01 THE INJUSTICES STARTED WITHIN THEIR HOUSE.

09:51:07 IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE.

09:51:09 IT IS TIME FOR DUE PROCESS.

09:51:11 IT IS TIME FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

09:51:13 IT IS TIME FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA TO TRULY END THE CIVIL

09:51:18 RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN TAMPA.

09:51:21 CHANGE HAS GOT TO COME.

09:51:26 AM I HUMAN?

09:51:27 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:51:38 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:51:39 >> MENTESNOT, TAMPA, FLORIDA.

09:51:57 NASTY, STINKING, RACIST DOG.

09:52:02 NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

09:52:04 LET'S START THIS WAY.

09:52:09 YOU ALWAYS HAVE A PROBLEM OF HOW I DRESS, WHATSOEVER, BUT

09:52:12 THE FIRST LADY CAME UP REPRESENTING POLICE UNION OR




09:52:14 SOMETHING.

09:52:15 HALF HER BREAST OUT.

09:52:17 WHY YOU ARE ALL NOT CENSORING HER?

09:52:21 IT JUST SHOWS HOW DISCRIMINATION WORK.

09:52:23 AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE COME UP REPRESENTING ACLU.

09:52:26 THEY GET TO SPEAK DOUBLE AND TRIPLE.

09:52:28 YOU UNDERSTAND?

09:52:29 BUT I HAD ANOTHER YOUNG BLACK MAN WITH ME.

09:52:31 I CAN'T GET TO SPEAK ON THE SAME PUBLIC COMMENTS.

09:52:33 NASTY STINKING RACIST DOG.

09:52:36 AND WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING THE DOGS THE POLICE PUT ON

09:52:39 YOU.

09:52:39 WE TALKING ABOUT THE DOGS THAT SITTING UPSTAIRS, THE

09:52:42 NASTY STINKING RACIST DOGS THAT SITTING UPSTAIRS THAT SAY

09:52:45 YOU CAN'T EVEN ADDRESS THEM A CERTAIN WAY, LIKE THEY GOD,

09:52:49 LIKE TO A GREEK GOD OR ROMAN GOD OR SOMETHING.

09:52:52 GARBAGE.

09:52:52 NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

09:52:54 YOU ALL BEGGING FOR POLICE.

09:52:57 THE POLICE IS THE KU KLUX KLAN.

09:53:03 600 BICYCLE STOPS INSIDE OUR COMMUNITY AND YOU ALL AROUND

09:53:06 HERE BEGGING FOREGO POLICE REVIEW BOARD.

09:53:08 NO.

09:53:08 YOU UNDERSTAND?

09:53:11 JOSEPH SHOT OVER 62 TIMES RIGHT HERE A FEW BLOCKS FROM MY




09:53:15 HOUSE.

09:53:16 YEAH, NASTY STINKING RACIST DOGS.

09:53:19 THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.

09:53:20 THE KKK.

09:53:21 THAT'S WHERE IT STARTS.

09:53:23 HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.

09:53:24 LYNCH CAPITAL OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

09:53:27 LYNCH CAPITAL OF THE SOUTH AT ONE TIME.

09:53:30 YOU ALL WANT BLACK PEOPLE TO KEEP BEGGING AND COMING DOWN

09:53:33 HERE AND ON OUR KNEES AND COMING TO THIS NONSENSE.

09:53:39 TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR YEARS RIGHT THERE IN YBOR

09:53:42 CITY, SPRAYING PEPPER SPRAY THROUGHOUT THE CROWD, EVERY

09:53:48 TIME CLUB JEWEL IS OVER WITH.

09:53:51 YOU ALL DIDN'T DO ONE DAMN THING ABOUT IT.

09:53:54 YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SOME OF YOU ALL ARE CAREER

09:53:56 POLITICIANS.

09:53:57 SOME OF YOU ALL ARE CAREER POLITICIANS AND YOU ALL TRYING

09:54:00 TO GET BLACK PEOPLE TO BUY INTO THAT PROPAGANDA. WE

09:54:03 DON'T HAVE TO BUY INTO THAT.

09:54:04 BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO ASSESS THAT.

09:54:06 AND WHEN WE GO ANOTHER A JUDGMENT YOU ALL CALL IT RIOTING

09:54:13 AND LOOTING AND STEALING AND SHOPLIFTING BUT WHEN WHITE

09:54:18 PEOPLE DO IT YOU CALL IT INSURRECTION.

09:54:20 WHEN YOU SAY WE HAVE TO DOO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR RIGHTS

09:54:23 WHICH WHITE RIGHTS ALREADY HAVE, YOU CALL IT




09:54:26 INSURRECTION.

09:54:26 WHEN WE SAY SOMETHING WRONG ABOUT THIS, THERE'S SOMETHING

09:54:30 WRONG ABOUT THIS, THEN WE HAVE TO COME AND BEG FOR POLICE

09:54:33 REVIEW BOARD.

09:54:34 DO WHAT YOU ALL HAVE TO DO BECAUSE WE AFRICAN PEOPLE ON

09:54:38 THE STREETS, WE LIVE THIS LIFE.

09:54:39 WE ARE GOING TO DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.

09:54:41 IT'S SICKENING TO SEE, BUT IT'S SO HONORABLE TO SEE YOUNG

09:54:46 WHITE PEOPLE, YOUNG WHITE PEOPLE DOWN HERE SAYING, HEY,

09:54:50 WE SEE THE LIGHT.

09:54:51 YOU UNDERSTAND?

09:54:52 WE BEEN SEEING DISCRIMINATION.

09:54:54 I BEEN SEEING DISCRIMINATION FROM THE VERY DAY, WHITE

09:54:58 CHILD RAISE THEIR HAND, DON'T RAISE THEIR HANDS TO SPEAK,

09:55:00 OH, JOHNNY, IT'S NOT DONE THAT WAY.

09:55:02 BLACK CHILD DO IT, GO TAKE YOUR BLACK ASS TO THE OFFICE.

09:55:07 YEAH, YOU IN TROUBLE.

09:55:08 YOU ABOUT TO BE SUSPENDED.

09:55:09 YOU ABOUT TO BE EXPELLED FOR DOING THE SAME THING WHITE

09:55:12 PEOPLE DOING.

09:55:13 BLACK PEOPLE, WE DESERVE RIGHTS AND WE DESERVE JUSTICE

09:55:16 AND ORLANDO GUDES, WE HOPE THAT YOU LOOK OUT FOR OUR

09:55:19 RIGHTS AND OTHER PEOPLE UP THERE THAT'S DOING SOME

09:55:22 HONORABLE THING.

09:55:23 WE FINALLY HAVE A CITY COUNCIL THAT'S LOOKING DECENT NOW.




09:55:26 AND WE WOULD LIKE YOU ALL TO DO SOMETHING TO REALLY

09:55:29 REPRESENT WHAT THE PEOPLE OF SAYING THAT WE NEED, NOT

09:55:32 WHAT A FEW SELECT INDIVIDUALS TALKING ABOUT WE HAVE A

09:55:36 THOUSAND EMPLOYEES, AND YOU ALL HAVE A THOUSAND EMPLOYEES

09:55:39 THAT WORKS FOR THE TAXPAYERS, OR WE GOING TO QUIT OUR

09:55:43 JOBS.

09:55:43 WHO IN THE HELL QUIT THEIR JOBS IN A PANDEMIC?

09:55:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

09:55:48 THANK YOU.

09:55:52 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:56:08 YES, MA'AM, GO AHEAD.

09:56:09 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

09:56:09 >> MY NAME IS STEPHANIE.

09:56:14 THAT'S A TOUGH ACT TO FOLLOW.

09:56:15 KIND OF NERVOUS.

09:56:16 I WANT TO START BY SAYING TO THE COUNCIL, I WATCHED THE

09:56:19 JUNE 4th CITY COUNCIL ON FACEBOOK LIVE AND THE

09:56:22 COMMENTS THAT COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO MADE ABOUT HIS RIDE

09:56:26 ALONG AND ENTERING THE HOME THAT SOMEBODY HAD JUST PASSED

09:56:29 AWAY, THAT REALLY TOUCHED MY HEART BECAUSE I FELT LIKE

09:56:32 YOU GET THE SUBTLIES OF WHAT THAT PROFESSION DEALS WITH.

09:56:37 BUT I AM HERE IN SUPPORT OF THE ACLU PROPOSAL, BECAUSE I

09:56:41 BELIEVE IT WILL RESTORE TRANSPARENCY FOR THE TAMPA POLICE

09:56:45 DEPARTMENT.

09:56:49 SURELY, THE MAYOR'S ADMINISTRATION SAW THE SUBPOENA ISSUE




09:56:55 COMING UP WHEN SHE ANNOUNCED THIS REVIEW BOARD CHANGE AS

09:56:58 AN ANSWER TO SOME OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE PROTESTS SHE SAW.

09:57:01 BUT PANDORA'S BOX HAS BEEN OPENED, AND I WANT TO BE SPEAK

09:57:05 TO SHARE THE IMPACTS OF LEAVING THIS METAPHORICAL BOX

09:57:08 UNOPENED FOR AS LONG AS WE HAVE.

09:57:09 I JOINED THE ACLU BECAUSE THEY ARE A NONPARTISAN GROUP,

09:57:13 AND I AM PASSIONATE ABOUT EQUALITY, SO MUCH SO THAT I

09:57:16 HELPED MY SISTER GET INTO HER LAW ENFORCEMENT CAREER

09:57:20 WHERE SHE ULTIMATELY MET HER HUSBAND.

09:57:22 THERE'S NOTHING EXTREME ABOUT MY FAMILY.

09:57:24 SINCE NOVEMBER, THERE HAS BEEN SEVERAL INSTANCES WHERE

09:57:27 THE POLICE UNION LEADERSHIP HAS ATTACKED THE ACLU IN THE

09:57:31 PAST.

09:57:31 BEFORE THE LAST CRB DISCUSSION THEY ASKED THEIR FOLLOWERS

09:57:35 TO SUPPORT THE PBA AGAINST THE ACLU.

09:57:40 THAT WAS AN AWKWARD DINNER CONVERSATION.

09:57:44 JUST LAST WEEK, THE UNION PRESIDENT PUBLISHED AN OP-ED IN

09:57:48 THE "TAMPA BAY TIMES."

09:57:49 TAMPA MUST KEEP POLITICS OUT OF POLICING.

09:57:51 THE UNION PRESIDENT EXPLAINS WHY IT OPPOSES RADICAL

09:57:54 CHANGES TO THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:57:56 RADICAL CHANGES.

09:58:00 COUNCIL, MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHAT AUDIENCE IS THAT

09:58:04 OP-ED FOR?

09:58:05 IT WOULD APPEAR THE HEADLINE IS FOR FREEDOM GROUPS THAT




09:58:08 WE KEEP HEARING FROM.

09:58:10 IT'S ONLY BEEN 50 DAYS SINCE THE INSURRECTION.

09:58:14 MANY OF THESE PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE VALIDITY OF

09:58:16 THAT EVENT.

09:58:16 JUST YESTERDAY A U.S. SENATOR REPEATED LIES ABOUT IT.

09:58:19 I WOULDN'T BE WORKING WITH THIS ORGANIZATION IF I DIDN'T

09:58:21 HAVE THE LOVE AND SUPPORT OF MY FAMILY.

09:58:24 NOW, CITY COUNCIL, YOU MAY NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHAT

09:58:26 THE POLICE UNION SAYS, BUT YOU DO HAVE CONTROL OVER WHAT

09:58:29 YOU LEGITIMIZE.

09:58:31 IF YOU PLAY TO THE FARCE GIVING ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD

09:58:35 AUTHORITY TO GET DOCUMENTS, THEN THAT WILL VALIDATE THE

09:58:40 FREEDOM SUPPORTERS WHO ARE IMPRESSIONABLE AND CALLED UPON

09:58:43 BY THEIR LEADERS.

09:58:44 I WOULD IMAGINE SOME MAY BE NERVOUS CITY COUNCIL PERSON

09:58:47 TO BRING THIS PROPOSAL UP FOR A VOTE.

09:58:49 I WAS NERVOUS COMING HERE TODAY.

09:58:50 MY HUSBAND'S PARENTS EMIGRATED FROM CHINA IN THE 70s

09:58:55 AND 50 DAYS AGO WE WATCHED A MAN LEAVING AN ASSEMBLY LINE

09:59:04 BEATEN BY A POLICE OFFICER.

09:59:07 PLEASE.

09:59:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:59:13 I BELIEVE WE HAVE FOUR MORE SPEAKERS IN PERSON NEXT

09:59:19 SPEAKER, PLEASE.

09:59:26 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.




09:59:33 MY NAME IS GRETCHEN COTHRON, TAMPA NATIVE AND RESIDENT

09:59:39 AND, YES, AN ATTORNEY.

09:59:41 I GUESS THE PBA HAS REFERRED TO ME AS AN ACTIVIST

09:59:44 ATTORNEY BUT I AM ACTUALLY A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER.

09:59:49 AND YOU CAN CALL ME AN ACTIVIST BECAUSE I LOVE THIS

09:59:52 COMMUNITY.

09:59:52 AND I WILL SPEAK OUT.

09:59:55 I WILL DO WHAT'S NEEDED TO MAKE THIS COMMUNITY A BETTER

09:59:57 PLACE.

10:00:04 JUST LAST YEAR EVERYBODY WHO HAD A SMALL BUSINESS, OUR

10:00:08 BUSINESSES WERE FORCED TO CLOSE.

10:00:10 DURING THE TIME THAT MY BUSINESS WAS CLOSED, AND OVER THE

10:00:13 SUMMER, AND CONTINUING EVEN TO THIS MORNING, LAST YEAR I

10:00:21 PUT IN OVER 500 HOURS OF COMMUNITY WORK, OF VOLUNTEER

10:00:24 WORK.

10:00:24 FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WORK A 40 HOUR WEEK JOB, THAT'S

10:00:28 THREE MONTHS OF UNPAID LABOR.

10:00:30 AND IT COST ME OVER $200,000 OF GRANTS BECAUSE I BELIEVE

10:00:40 IN THIS COMMUNITY AND I WILL FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

10:00:42 THE PBA HAS -- ABOUT THOSE OF US THAT VOLUNTEER WITH

10:00:47 ACLU, WHO HAVE VOLUNTEERED TO TAKE ON THIS PROJECT.

10:00:53 NONE OF US ARE COMPENSATED BY THE ACLU.

10:00:55 I WON'T EVEN BE COMPENSATED FOR MY PARKING OUTSIDE TODAY.

10:00:58 WE DO THIS BECAUSE WE LOVE THIS COMMUNITY, AND WE LOVE

10:01:01 THE CONSTITUTION, AND WE LOVE THE BILL OF RIGHTS.




10:01:07 NONE OF US WORK FOR THE ACLU.

10:01:10 BUT BECAUSE OF HER OP EDS AND SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS I HAVE

10:01:18 BEEN GETTING THREATS ON SOCIAL IMMEDIATE BECAUSE I DARE

10:01:22 TO STAND UP TO TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.

10:01:26 AND I DARE TO, AND THE CITIZENS VOTED AND ELECTED JANE

10:01:34 CASTOR AS MAYOR, THAT THEY INTENDED TO HAVE A

10:01:36 DICTATORSHIP RUN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

10:01:40 BUT WE CURRENTLY HAVE A MAYOR CASTOR, FORMER POLICE

10:01:44 CHIEF, WHO SOME PEOPLE I SPEAK TO AND HEAR FROM INSIDE

10:01:49 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BELIEVES SHE'S STILL RUNNING THE

10:01:51 POLICE DEPARTMENT.

10:01:52 SO SHE'S RUNNING THE CITY.

10:01:53 SHE'S RUNNING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

10:01:55 NOW SHE WANTS TO RUN THE CRB, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE A

10:01:59 CIVILIAN PANEL TO REVIEW POLICE INDISCRETIONS.

10:02:05 I WAS ON THE GROUND THAT SUMMER.

10:02:08 I SAW PEOPLE GETTING HIT BY RUBBER BULLETS.

10:02:13 I HAD TEAR GAS OR CANISTERS OF GAS SPRAYED AT ME AND

10:02:17 OTHERS.

10:02:18 I WAS THERE.

10:02:19 I SAW IT.

10:02:20 AND TO THIS DAY, DURING A MEETING, TAMPA POLICE

10:02:25 DEPARTMENT HAS DENIED USING GAS OR SHOOTING RUBBER

10:02:28 BULLETS.

10:02:29 SO WE ARE GOING TO LET THEM RUN THEIR OWN REVIEW




10:02:32 FATHER-IN-LAW, WE ARE GOING TO LET THEM NOT BE

10:02:36 ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYBODY EXCEPT THEMSELVES OR THEY CAN BE

10:02:42 ACCOUNTABLE TO THE MAYOR, GREATER TAMPA BAY, AND

10:02:46 APPARENTLY IS THREATENING ALL OF COUNCIL SO EVERYBODY IS

10:02:48 AFRAID TO SPEAK OUT, TO MAKE A MOTION, TO VOTE FOR

10:02:53 EFFECTIVE CRB.

10:02:55 THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE I THINK JUNE WHEN WE FIRST

10:02:59 STARTED MEETING.

10:03:00 I WAS ON THE MAYOR'S TASK FORCE.

10:03:03 IT WENT NOWHERE.

10:03:05 CITIZENS COMPLAINED.

10:03:06 THE POLICE OFFICERS THAT WERE PRESENT SAID, OH, THAT

10:03:10 DOESN'T HAPPEN, THAT'S AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

10:03:13 I WENT THROUGH THE TPD BIAS TRAINING.

10:03:16 ONE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WAS THERE THAT I SAW.

10:03:20 I SAT ON THE NAACP, POLICE CHIEF PANEL, WHERE SHERIFF

10:03:27 CHRONISTER, ALL THE POLICE CHIEFS, EXCEPT FOR TAMPA

10:03:34 INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, WERE ON THIS PANEL.

10:03:36 CHIEF DUGAN ARRIVED FOR THE FIRST MEETING, SAID

10:03:41 EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, WE DO EVERYTHING WONDERFUL, WE

10:03:43 DON'T NEED TO GET TOGETHER WITH THE OTHER CHIEFS AND THE

10:03:46 SHERIFFS TO CREATE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO HELP EQUAL

10:03:51 RIGHTS, TO HELP FIGHT DISCRIMINATION IN OUR COUNTY, AND

10:03:54 THEY NEVER SHOWED UP TO ANOTHER MEETING.

10:03:56 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MA'AM.




10:03:57 >> THANK YOU.

10:03:59 I ASK THAT YOU PLEASE VOTE ON THIS.

10:04:01 STOP DELAYING IT.

10:04:03 THANK YOU.

10:04:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:04:08 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

10:04:22 YES, SIR, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

10:04:22 >> MY NAME IS FRED ROCK.

10:04:25 I LIVE IN SOUTH TAMPA.

10:04:27 I HAVE LIVED THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 30-PLUS YEARS.

10:04:30 I AM ALSO REPRESENTING A GROUP, COMMUNITY PATRIOTS OF

10:04:34 TAMPA.

10:04:35 AND AS I WAS DRIVING IN TO TODAY'S MEETING AND DRIVING

10:04:39 DOWN BAYSHORE BOULEVARD, I NOTICED SO MANY TRAFFIC LIGHTS

10:04:44 THAT DIDN'T USED TO BE THERE.

10:04:46 BUT THE REASON THEY WERE PUT THERE WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE

10:04:49 FELT AS THOUGH THERE WAS A NEED FOR SAFETY.

10:04:53 I LOOK AT IT TODAY AND I SEE PEOPLE STILL CROSSING

10:04:58 BAYSHORE TO GET TO THE OTHER SIDE AND NOT UTILIZING THE

10:05:02 RESOURCES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE FOR THEIR SAFETY.

10:05:06 BUT THAT REALLY DOESN'T SPEAK PER SE TO THE EXACT MEETING

10:05:10 WE ARE HAVING TODAY.

10:05:12 IT HAS TO DO WITH US BELIEVING THAT OUR MAYOR, WHO HAS

10:05:16 SERVED AS CHIEF OF POLICE, AND NOW SERVES AS MAYOR, AND

10:05:21 HER TEAM, ARE WELL ADVISED.




10:05:25 THEY HAVE HAD BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

10:05:28 THEY UNDERSTAND THIS PARTICULAR CONDITION OR SITUATION

10:05:31 FAR BETTER THAN MOST OR ANY ONE OF US HERE TODAY.

10:05:35 I'M SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF AND HOPING THAT YOU TRUST IN

10:05:40 OUR CONSTITUTION, THAT WE DON'T ADD ANOTHER LAYER OF

10:05:45 ENFORCEMENT OR LAWS THAT AREN'T REALLY NEEDED, JUST LIKE

10:05:50 SO MANY OF THOSE EXTRA LIGHTS THAT ARE NOW ON BAYSHORE

10:05:51 BOULEVARD THAT SO MANY PEOPLE AREN'T UTILIZING.

10:05:55 I THINK THE TROUBLEMAKERS THAT ARE OUT THERE ARE GOING TO

10:05:58 ALWAYS BE THERE.

10:06:00 HOPEFULLY, THOUGH, THEY WILL BE REDUCED, AND OUR POLICE

10:06:05 FORCE, THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY YOUNG MEN

10:06:09 AND WOMEN DOING THEIR PART, AND WE NEED TO SHOW THEM

10:06:14 SUPPORT, BECAUSE IF OUR HOUSE CATCHES ON FIRE, IF OUR CAR

10:06:19 GETS BROKEN INTO, IF WE ARE HURT, THE FIRST PERSON WE

10:06:23 TURN TO, FIRST GROUP, ARE THE POLICE.

10:06:26 AND I TRULY BELIEVE THAT MOST ALL OF THEM ARE DOING THE

10:06:30 VERY BEST THEY CAN EQUAL ACROSS RACIAL LINES.

10:06:35 THANK YOU.

10:06:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

10:06:41 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

10:06:56 YES, MA'AM, GO AHEAD.

10:06:57 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

10:06:58 >> MY NAME IS MARY FERNANDEZ.

10:07:03 I TOOK A DAY OFF TO BE HERE.




10:07:05 I FEEL IT'S OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO SUPPORT THE POLICE

10:07:09 DEPARTMENT.

10:07:11 I HAVE LIVED IN THE CITY TAMPA FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

10:07:15 AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF UNREST IN OTHER PARTS OF THE

10:07:20 COUNTRY WHILE WE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA HAVE BEEN ABLE TO

10:07:23 KEEP A VERY GOOD ORDERLY AND STABLE PROTECTION FOR THE

10:07:32 CITIZENS.

10:07:34 I'M VERY PROUD OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF

10:07:35 TAMPA, AND I SUPPORT THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL, AND I STAND

10:07:39 WITH THE POLICE UNION.

10:07:41 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:07:41 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:07:43 NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.

10:07:44 >> MY NAME IS LEE SMITH.

10:08:06 I WOULD LIKE TO STAND WITH THE POLICE UNION IN SUPPORT OF

10:08:09 MAYOR CASS' PROPOSAL.

10:08:11 THANK YOU.

10:08:12 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:08:13 IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE IN PERSON FOR PUBLIC COMMENT?

10:08:15 IF NOT WE ARE GOING TO GO TO THIS COMMENDATION FOR ITEM

10:08:20 1, AND THEN CONTINUE ONTO THE REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS.

10:08:26 I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE LAST SPEAKER IN PERSON.

10:08:29 I JUST WANT TO DOUBLE CHECK.

10:08:36 ALL RIGHT.

10:08:37 HAVING SAID THAT, COUNCILMAN VIERA, THIS IS YOUR MOTION.




10:08:39 WE HAVE A COMMENDATION TO JOSHUA FELDER.

10:08:43 I BELIEVE HE'S JOINING US VIRTUALLY.

10:08:45 CORRECT, SIR?

10:08:46 >>LUIS VIERA: YES, SIR.

10:08:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: IF WE CAN BRING MR. FELDER ONLY

10:08:50 LINE, AND COUNCILMAN VIERA, IT'S ALL YOURS.

10:08:54 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:08:56 JOSH, ARE YOU THERE, BUDDY?

10:08:58 >> YES, I'M HERE.

10:08:59 >>LUIS VIERA: GREAT.

10:09:00 THERE YOU GO.

10:09:01 SORRY, I AM JUST FINDING MY NOTES HERE, JOSH.

10:09:05 I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AT.

10:09:12 WELL, THAT'S FINE.

10:09:13 JOSH, GOOD TO SEE YOU, BUDDY.

10:09:15 CAN WE SEE YOU THERE?

10:09:16 >> I AM HAVING DIFFICULTY WITH THE CAMERA.

10:09:27 >>LUIS VIERA: DO YOU NEED A MINUTE, BUDDY?

10:09:29 DO YOU WANT US TO COME BACK TO YOU?

10:09:31 I KNOW WE WOULD ALL LOVE TO SEE YOUR FACE, JOSH, IF YOU

10:09:34 CAN DO THAT.

10:09:35 >> YEAH, I'M WORKING ON IT.

10:09:39 I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR A WHILE.

10:09:40 >>LUIS VIERA: OKAY, THAT'S FINE.

10:09:42 WELL, DO YOU HAVE SOMEONE THERE WHO CAN HELP YOU WITH THE




10:09:46 CAMERA, BUDDY?

10:09:47 >> MY MOTHER CAN HELP ME.

10:09:52 SHE'S HERE.

10:09:53 >>LUIS VIERA: OKAY, JOSH.

10:09:54 HOW ABOUT THIS?

10:09:55 MR. CHAIR, CAN WE COME BACK TO JOSH?

10:09:58 AND JOSH, WITH THE PERMISSION OF OUR CHAIR, WE'LL GIVE

10:10:03 YOU FIVE MINUTES TO GET YOUR CAMERA BECAUSE I KNOW WE

10:10:06 WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU ON AND SEE YOU AND WHATNOT, AND

10:10:08 THEN COME BACK TO THIS GENTLEMAN NO COUPLE MINUTES, SIR?

10:10:11 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, SIR.

10:10:12 >>LUIS VIERA: WE SHALL RETURN SO WE'LL GIVE YOU FIVE

10:10:14 MINUTES.

10:10:15 THANK YOU, BUDDY.

10:10:16 THANK YOU, SIR.

10:10:16 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE'LL COME BACK AT 10:15.

10:10:20 WE HAVE SOME PUBLIC COMMENTS REGISTERED SPEAKERS ONLINE.

10:10:24 I BELIEVE THE FIRST NAME IS JENNIFER HART.

10:10:28 >>THE CLERK: THE FIRST PERSON IS JENNIFER HART.

10:10:37 PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:10:38 YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.

10:10:39 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: JENNIFER HART.

10:10:41 GO AHEAD.

10:10:41 >> CAN YOU HEAR ME?

10:10:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, WE CAN.




10:10:47 GO AHEAD.

10:10:47 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

10:10:51 MY NAME IS JENNIFER HART.

10:10:52 I'M HERE AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN AND ALSO WITH THE

10:10:55 DEMOCRATIC -- OF TAMPA BAY.

10:10:58 I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOU TODAY IN SUPPORT OF A STRONG

10:11:01 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD IN TAMPA.

10:11:03 I BELIEVE THIS IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO ENSURE REAL

10:11:07 JUSTICE IN TAMPA BAY.

10:11:13 SOME OF THE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO CALL FOR IS A NEW

10:11:17 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD, AND RECEIVE COMPLAINTS DIRECTLY

10:11:20 FROM THE PUBLIC, NOT THROUGH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

10:11:30 [~AUDIO DISTORTION~] AND THERE ARE MEMBERS APPOINTED BY

10:11:32 THE COUNCIL AND NAACP AND NO APPOINTMENTS FROM THE MAYOR.

10:11:36 THE YRB NEEDS SUBPOENA POWER TO INVESTIGATE COMPLAINTS

10:11:43 AND AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY.

10:11:45 THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

10:11:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT UP WE HAVE JEAN STROHMEYER.

10:11:49 IF YOU ARE ON THE LINE, PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF AND YOU

10:11:52 MAY SPEAK NOW.

10:11:58 JEAN STROHMEYER?

10:12:00 >>THE CLERK: SHE IS ON THE LINE AND IT'S UNMUTED BUT WE

10:12:08 CANNOT HEAR HER.

10:12:09 >> HELLO?

10:12:12 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THERE YOU ARE.




10:12:13 >> I GO FOR TWO SECONDS AND THEN -- I JUST LEARNED

10:12:24 SOMETHING WHILE PEOPLE WERE SPEAKING TODAY.

10:12:26 SO I HAD TO ASK YOU FOR ANOTHER 30 SECOND, PLEASE.

10:12:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD, MA'AM.

10:12:31 >> OKAY, THANK YOU.

10:12:33 OH, MAN.

10:12:34 MY NAME IS JEAN ALDOSTERONE MIRE, CITIZEN OF TAMPA FOR

10:12:38 FIFTY YEARS.

10:12:39 MOST OF US HERE EXCEPT FOR MAYBE ONE COUNCILMEMBER HAS

10:12:41 NEVER BEEN A COP.

10:12:48 WE WALK OUT OF OUR HOUSE NOT KNOWING IF WE ARE GOING TO

10:12:51 WALK BACK IN THE DOOR TO SEE OUR LOVED ONES AGAIN.

10:12:53 THIS IS A WALK OUR OFFICERS TAKE ON A DAILY BASIS FOR THE

10:12:57 SAFETY OF OTHERS FOR YOU AND ME.

10:13:00 THEY CHOOSE THIS CAREER Y.ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?

10:13:03 IMAGINE THINKING EVERY DAY YOU GO TO WORK COULD BE YOUR

10:13:05 LAST DAY.

10:13:06 NOT YOUR LAST DAY -- LAST DAY ON EARTH.

10:13:11 FOR MOST OF US IT'S NOT A LIFE AT ALL.

10:13:13 THESE OFFICERS BE BEING SCRUTINIZED BY LIEUTENANTS,

10:13:18 CORPORALS, JUSTICE STANDARD, FDLE, CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD,

10:13:23 BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY BY WE THE PEOPLE.

10:13:26 SIGN ME UP FOR THAT JOB!

10:13:30 NO, NOT A CHANCE EVER FOR THE AVERAGE CITIZEN.

10:13:33 NOW BESIDE ALL THE ABOVE, SOMEONE HAD THE BRIGHT IDEA TO




10:13:36 BRING POLITICAL GROUPS INTO OUR CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT

10:13:38 FOR ANOTHER LAYER OF SCRUTINY.

10:13:40 THAT'S A BAD IDEA ON SO MANY LEVELS.

10:13:42 IF YOU BRING IN THE ACLU, YOU NEED TO BRING IN THE

10:13:47 CHRISTIAN COALITION AND OTHER GROUPS TO BALANCE THIS OUT

10:13:49 INCLUDING RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.

10:13:51 I HAVE READ THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT, AND SEE SO MANY CONCERNS

10:13:56 FOR ABUSE AND OVERREACH.

10:13:58 MULTIPLE PLACES IT SAYS TO REVIEW CASES OF INTEREST TO

10:14:02 THE COMMUNITY.

10:14:03 BUT WHICH CASE IS OF INTEREST TO THE COMMUNITY WHO

10:14:06 DETERMINES WHAT CASES?

10:14:09 BECAUSE WE BRING MORE POLITICAL -- INTO THE BOX.

10:14:12 YEAH, THOSE CASES.

10:14:17 LEAKS OF CONTENT.

10:14:20 THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN HIERARCHY AND SIGN UP FOR A

10:14:23 DANGEROUS JOB.

10:14:25 SO BESIDES SCRUTINIZATION, ANYONE WITH SPECIAL INTEREST

10:14:29 CAN FILE A COMPLAINT.

10:14:33 NO SPECIAL INTERESTS POLITICAL GROUPS SHOULD BE INVOLVED

10:14:35 IN OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

10:14:36 IT TALKS ABOUT DIVERSITY WHICH IS OVERPLAYED TO THE INTH

10:14:41 DEGREE.

10:14:44 I HAVE NOT READ THE POLICE OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS BUT I

10:14:48 HAVE READ THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS, AND THE RIGHT OF THE




10:14:52 PEOPLE TO BE SECURE IN THEIR HOUSE AND EFFECTS AGAINST

10:14:57 UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES SHOULD NOT BE

10:15:00 VIOLATED.

10:15:02 THE BOARD IS AFFIRMATION AND PARTICULARLY PERSONS OR

10:15:09 THINGS TO BE SEEN.

10:15:09 THE ENTIRE CRB THINKS THEY OVERSTEP THE RIGHTS MUCH

10:15:14 ANYONE WITH A JOB OR NOT ESPECIALLY OUR OFFICERS.

10:15:16 THEY WANT SUBPOENA POWER OF AS CITIZENS?

10:15:21 THAT'S INSANE AND A VIOLATION OF OUR CIVIL RIGHTS, JUST

10:15:24 BECAUSE I MAY HAVE A RING DOORBELL, YOU WANT TO INVADE

10:15:27 OUR PRIVACY AND BRING ME INTO A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION?

10:15:30 THAT'S WHAT THEY DO IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES.

10:15:32 THAT IS INSANE AND VERY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AND OVERREACH

10:15:35 OF OUR CITIZENS.

10:15:37 DON'T DO IT.

10:15:38 SO CONSIDERING THE STRONG SPECIAL INTERESTS AROUND OUR

10:15:40 COMMUNITIES IN THIS MANNER, I ASK CITY COUNCIL TO LET

10:15:43 THIS MATTER DIE, OR CAUSE THE SLOW DEATH OF OUR POLICE

10:15:48 OFFICERS.

10:15:48 THANK YOU AND HAVE A GOOD DAY.

10:15:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:15:51 NEXT SPEAKER WE HAVE IS RYAN BARACK.

10:15:57 >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL.

10:15:59 MY NAME IS RYAN BARACK, A CIVIL RIGHTS AND EMPLOYMENT

10:16:06 OPPORTUNITY.




10:16:06 I HAVE ALSO REPRESENTED HUNDREDS OF POLICE OFFICERS AND

10:16:09 SECURED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BENEFITS FROM THEM.

10:16:11 I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS TWO POINTS TODAY.

10:16:13 FIRST, THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD SHOULD HAVE AN

10:16:16 INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVISER.

10:16:18 SECOND, THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD SHOULD HAVE SUBPOENA

10:16:21 POWER.

10:16:23 WITH RESPECT TO THE INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVISER, AN

10:16:25 ATTORNEY THAT REPORTS TO THE BOARD IS VITAL TO ENSURE

10:16:29 THAT THEY ARE GIVING INDEPENDENT, UNBIASED LEGAL ADVICE.

10:16:33 IF YOU HAVE AN ATTORNEY THAT IS PART OF THE CITY

10:16:35 ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, INEVITABLY, IT'S GOING TO BE A

10:16:37 CONFLICT THAT ARISES BETWEEN THEIR OBLIGATIONS TO THEIR

10:16:41 CLIENT, THE CITY, AND THE OBLIGATIONS TO THEIR CLIENT,

10:16:45 THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

10:16:46 THIS IS THE SAME REASON WHY A NUMBER OF INDEPENDENT OR

10:16:52 MULTI-COUNTY AGENCIES OR OTHER BOARDS ALL HAVE

10:16:55 INDEPENDENT ATTORNEYS.

10:16:56 THE REASON WHY HART HAS A BOARD WITH AN INDEPENDENT, THE

10:17:00 REASON WHY THE TAMPA BAY WATER HAS A LAWYER THAT IS

10:17:03 INDEPENDENT.

10:17:04 THERE'S NOTHING UNUSUAL OR INAPPROPRIATE ABOUT HAVING

10:17:07 INDEPENDENT ATTORNEYS ADVISE THAT BOARD.

10:17:08 IT'S NORMAL.

10:17:09 IT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE.




10:17:10 WITH RESPECT TO SUBPOENA POWER, ALLOWING THE BOARD TO

10:17:15 SUBPOENA WITNESSES IS IMPORTANT TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE

10:17:17 ABLE TO CONDUCT FAIR AND EFFICIENT INVESTIGATIONS.

10:17:21 I WOULD HAZARD A GUESS THAT THEY WOULD BE ALMOST NO NEED

10:17:24 TO ACTUALLY USE THAT POWER, BUT THE MERE EXISTENCE OF

10:17:28 THAT POWER SHOWED THAT THE CITY TAKES THE CITIZENS REVIEW

10:17:31 VERY SERIOUSLY, AND IN THE EXTRAORDINARY CASE WHERE IT IS

10:17:35 NECESSARY, IT ALLOWS FOR MECHANISMS TO DO THAT.

10:17:38 SO AGAIN, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THIS COUNCIL TO, ONE, ALLOW

10:17:42 THE REVIEW BOARD TO HAVE INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL, LEGAL

10:17:45 ADVISER, AND ALSO TO ALLOW IT TO HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.

10:17:48 I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

10:17:49 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

10:17:50 NEXT IS NINA? TATLOCK.

10:17:56 >>THE CLERK: CHAIR, SHE'S ON THE LINE BUT HER AUDIO

10:18:00 ISN'T ENABLED.

10:18:00 SO WE NEED IT ENABLED FOR HER TO LOG BACK IN AND ENABLE

10:18:08 HER AUDIO.

10:18:08 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: BEFORE WE DO, COUNCILMAN VIERA, CAN

10:18:12 WE GO BACK TO MR. FELDER TO SEE IF HIS CAMERA WAS WORKING

10:18:16 SO WE CAN DO THE COMMENDATION?

10:18:18 >>LUIS VIERA: ARE YOU THERE, JOSH?

10:18:23 WE'LL WAIT FOR HIM TO GET BACK, I GUESS. I DON'T KNOW

10:18:26 HOW THAT WORKS.

10:18:29 I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS.




10:18:31 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: DO WE HAVE JOSH FELDER ON THE LINE

10:18:35 FOR THE COMMENDATION?

10:18:36 IF WE DO, IF WE COULD BRING HIM ON.

10:18:43 OKAY.

10:18:43 ALL RIGHT.

10:18:44 IN THE MEANTIME, WE WILL GO TO MARK RODRIGUEZ, THE NEXT

10:18:47 SPEAKER.

10:18:48 >>THE CLERK: THAT IS CORRECT.

10:18:53 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MARK RODRIGUEZ, IF YOU ARE ON THE

10:18:55 LINE, GO AHEAD.

10:18:56 >>THE CLERK: MR. RODRIGUEZ, YOU NEED TO UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:19:02 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

10:19:08 MY NAME IS MARC RODRIGUEZ.

10:19:09 I'M A RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, AND I'M GOING TO

10:19:15 ECHO THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS OF OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS IN

10:19:18 SUPPORT OF A REAL INDEPENDENT CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

10:19:25 IN MY MIND THIS IS NOT ANTI-POLICE MEASURES.

10:19:28 IT'S ABOUT BASIC CONCEPTS AND STANDARD OF ACCOUNTABILITY

10:19:32 AND TRANSPARENCY.

10:19:35 WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT INSTITUTIONS CANNOT CREDIBLY

10:19:40 INSPECTOR OVERSEE OR POLICE THEMSELVES INCLUDING THE

10:19:44 POLICE.

10:19:46 FOR EXAMPLE, I DON'T THINK MANY OF US WOULD CONSIDER IT

10:19:49 VERY CREDIBLE IF 20 YEARS AGO, THE NIKE CORPORATION WOULD

10:19:56 HAVE COME TO US AND PRODUCED A REPORT SAYING THAT THE




10:19:58 WORKING CONDITIONS AND THE WAGES AND THE SWEAT SHOPS THAT

10:20:02 PRODUCE OUR SNEAKERS ARE GREAT.

10:20:06 NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE THAT.

10:20:08 I THINK YOU SITTING HERE TODAY IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, WE

10:20:12 HAVE A CHANCE AT REAL SYSTEMIC CHANGE, BUT THIS CIVILIAN

10:20:16 REVIEW BOARD HAS TO BE INDEPENDENT, IT HAS TO BE

10:20:19 CONTROLLED BY CIVILIANS, AND INDEPENDENT FROM THE MAYOR,

10:20:22 FROM THE CITY, AND FROM THE POLICE.

10:20:25 I THINK IT'S ABOUT BASIC ACCOUNTABILITY.

10:20:27 I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN MANY

10:20:30 OTHER CITIES ACROSS FLORIDA AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND

10:20:34 ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW, AS THIS COUNTRY AND THIS STATE FACE

10:20:40 A MOMENT OF RECKONING ABOUT RACIAL INJUSTICE, ABOUT THE

10:20:44 HISTORY AND THE TACTICS OF POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY, I

10:20:47 THINK THIS IS REALLY A CHANCE FOR TAMPA TO STEP UP TO

10:20:53 THAT MOMENT AND IF WE WANT TO BE COSMOPOLITAN AND A

10:20:57 LEADING CITY MOVING FORWARD, I THINK THIS MEASURE IS THE

10:20:59 LEAST WE CAN DO.

10:21:00 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

10:21:01 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

10:21:04 NEXT ITEM.

10:21:06 PARIS GIRGINIS?

10:21:11 >>THE CLERK: IF YOU CAN HEAR ME, PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:21:20 >> GOOD MORNING.

10:21:24 I'M HERE TO COMMENT ON THE NOISE LEVEL, A SUBJECT THAT I




10:21:31 AND MY NEIGHBORS HAVE SPOKEN ON A FEW TIMES.

10:21:35 BUT I WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS THAT THE

10:21:39 REPRESENTATIVES OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SAID, SPEAKERS

10:21:53 FROM THE PATIO BE MOVED.

10:21:55 TO COMPENSATE, TO INCREASE THE VOLUME OF THE SPEAKERS

10:21:59 INSIDE AND OPEN THE DOORS.

10:22:03 THE SAME NOISE LEVEL AS BEFORE.

10:22:07 WHAT THAT HAS DONE IS BECAUSE OF THE INCREASED VOLUME,

10:22:10 NOW THE PATH IS MUCH CLEARER ACROSS THE BUILDING.

10:22:22 [~AUDIO DISTORTION~]

10:22:24 THE GENTLEMAN STATED THAT PARK & REC, WELL, IT'S FIVE

10:22:32 MONTHS NOW.

10:22:35 IN FACT, IT'S GOTTEN WORSE.

10:22:45 I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GOT THIS INFORMATION BUT I KNOW

10:22:48 MY NEIGHBORS AND I HAVE BEEN CALLING AS LATE AS SATURDAY.

10:22:55 ONE AT MIDNIGHT AND ONE ABOUT TWO IN THE MORNING.

10:23:01 SO I WOULD ASK THAT SOMETHING BE DONE.

10:23:04 AND THEN I HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT TO MAKE, TO HAVE THE

10:23:12 NOISE LEVEL UP TO 84 DECIBELS.

10:23:31 [~AUDIO DISTORTION~]

10:23:38 IT CAN BE HEARD ...

10:23:46 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:23:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:23:48 NEXT IS -- BEFORE WE GO TO THE NEXT SPEAKER, DO WE HAVE

10:23:53 MR. FELDER AUDIO AND VIDEO UP FOR THE COMMENDATION?




10:23:57 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIR, THANK YOU FOR THAT, SIR.

10:23:59 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS.

10:24:02 I AM HAVING MY ASSISTANT BRANDON WORK ON THAT AND WILL

10:24:06 TEXT ME WHEN HE'S READY SO I THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

10:24:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: KENTON BRADFORD IS OUR NEXT SPEAKER.

10:24:15 >>THE CLERK: BRADFORD DID NOT LOG ON.

10:24:21 WE GO TO ROZELL COFFIE.

10:24:30 >> CAN YOU HEAR ME?

10:24:32 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD.

10:24:32 YES, SIR.

10:24:33 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.

10:24:37 EARLIER THE PBA PRESIDENT MENTIONED THAT EVEN THE POLICE

10:24:40 MAKE MISTAKES, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE CAN ALL

10:24:43 AGREE ON.

10:24:43 MY QUESTION TO THE COUNCIL IS WHEN AN EMPLOYEE MAKES A

10:24:46 MISTAKE, IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE THE EMPLOYER THAT THEY ARE

10:24:51 HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTION.

10:24:53 THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA DESERVE TO HAVE THAT POWER.

10:24:55 POLICE, POLICING THEMSELVES, IS A CLEAR ABUSE OF

10:24:58 AUTHORITY.

10:25:00 IN ITS CURRENT STATE, WHAT IS THE POINT OF CRB IF THERE'S

10:25:03 NO REAL INDEPENDENCE OR POWER?

10:25:06 AND LIKE THE NOISE COMPLAINT THE GENTLEMAN SAID EARLIER,

10:25:10 IF MAN CAN LAND ON THE MOON WHY CAN'T WE SLEEP IN PEACE?

10:25:14 THANK YOU.




10:25:14 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:25:16 NEXT IS JUSTIN COFFIE.

10:25:21 >> HELLO.

10:25:23 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

10:25:24 >> YES, WE CAN.

10:25:25 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

10:25:26 I APPRECIATE THIS DISCUSSION TODAY.

10:25:29 MY NAME IS JUSTIN COFFIE, A RESIDENT OF TAMPA, AND I AM

10:25:33 CALLING TO EXPRESS MY SUPPORT FOR THE ACLU REQUEST FOR

10:25:36 OUR CITIZENS BOARD.

10:25:37 I BELIEVE THAT IN ORDER FOR THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD TO

10:25:40 TRULY POSSESS TEETH, THE BOARD SHOULD BE ABLE TO

10:25:43 INVESTIGATE COMPLAINTS INDEPENDENTLY, HAVE THE

10:25:46 SUBPOENA -- THE ABILITY TO SUBPOENA WITNESSES, RECOMMEND

10:25:50 DISCIPLINE, AND ALSO REVIEW DISCIPLINE.

10:25:54 DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS -- AND I BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING WE

10:25:58 ALL CAN AGREE ON IS THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE A TRULY

10:26:01 INDEPENDENT PROCESS IN ORDER FOR TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY TO

10:26:05 BE BROUGHT UPON US HERE IN TAMPA.

10:26:08 I THINK THAT TRANSPARENCY NEEDS TO BE COUPLED WITH

10:26:12 ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WE HAVE HAD MANY TALKS ABOUT

10:26:15 TRANSPARENCY WITH THE USE OF BODY CAMS BUT NOT ENOUGH

10:26:18 ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

10:26:21 CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT PROMISES MORE EQUITABLE POLICING

10:26:24 BECAUSE IT IS A PROCESS BY WHICH NONPOLICE COMMUNITY




10:26:27 MEMBERS CAN REGULARLY PROVIDE INPUT TO THE POLICE

10:26:30 DEPARTMENT OPERATION.

10:26:33 I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT I WAS A MEMBER OF THE MAYOR'S

10:26:37 TASK FORCE ON COMMUNITY POLICING, AND FROM THAT TASK

10:26:41 FORCE, THE 2001 PILLARS, THE FIRST BEING TRUST AND

10:26:46 LEGITIMACY AND THE SECOND BEING POLICY AND OVERSIGHT, I

10:26:49 THINK REALLY RELATE TO THIS DISCUSSION THAT WE ARE HAVING

10:26:52 TODAY.

10:26:53 SO I THINK THAT IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE COUNCIL TO REALLY

10:26:59 HEAR OUT TODAY WHAT THE MEMBERS OF THE ACLU AND THE

10:27:01 SUPPORTERS ARE REQUESTING, AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO

10:27:06 MENTION THAT HERE IN TAMPA, LIKE MANY SPEAKERS BEFORE ME

10:27:10 HAVE SAID, WE HAVE A CHANCE TO SERVE AS THE MODEL CITY

10:27:14 FOR THE REST OF THE NATION.

10:27:16 RECENTLY, I CAME ACROSS THE NEWS THAT THE CITY OF ORLANDO

10:27:19 HAS TAKEN THE INITIATIVE TO FIX OUR MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS

10:27:23 INTERVENTION PROGRAM BEGINNING THIS WEEKEND, AND I AM

10:27:27 SURE YOU ALL ARE AWARE, WE HAVE A SIMILAR EFFORTS HERE IN

10:27:30 THE CITY OF TAMPA, BUT IT'S BEEN TEASED FOR QUITE A LONG

10:27:36 TIME.

10:27:37 SO LET US NOT WAIT FOR A MORE EQUITABLE TIME.

10:27:40 PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRIES HAVE INCREASED TRANSPARENCY

10:27:43 AND ACCOUNTABILITY AND TAMPA IS DEFINITELY MORE CAPABLE

10:27:45 OF DOING THE SAME.

10:27:47 IT'S NOT A MATTER OF CAPABILITY BUT WILLINGNESS.




10:27:50 THESE TYPES OF CHANGES ARE LONG OVERDUE, AND I HOPE THAT

10:27:53 THE RIGHT DECISION IS MADE, WHICH IS GRANTING IS POWER

10:27:56 FOR THE CITY FOR THE REVIEW BOARD SO IT FUNCTIONS AS A

10:28:01 POWER SO WE WANTS THE REAL THING, AND I APPRECIATE THE

10:28:05 DISCUSSION.

10:28:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:28:07 BEFORE WE CONTINUE ON THE CALL-IN, WE HAVE ONE MORE

10:28:10 PERSON DOWN ON THE SECOND FLOOR, IF THEY WOULD COME TO

10:28:13 THE KIOSK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, AND WE'LL CONTINUE ON.

10:28:17 JUST TO KEEP THINGS MOVING.

10:28:29 THE SPEAKER THAT IS THERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT WALKED

10:28:32 IN, PLEASE COME TO THE KIOSK FOR OUR PUBLIC COMMENT.

10:28:42 NOW I AM BEING TOLD IT'S THREE PEOPLE TOTAL.

10:28:45 AFTER THIS, WE STOP THE IN-PERSON AND WE CONTINUE ON THE

10:28:49 PHONE.

10:28:49 PUBLIC COMMENTS STARTED AT 9:00.

10:28:51 IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK IN PERSON, PLEASE APPROACH THE

10:28:53 KIOSK.

10:29:03 IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK AND YOU ARE ON THE SECOND FLOOR,

10:29:05 PLEASE COME TO THE KIOSK.

10:29:15 YOU SAID THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE?

10:29:27 >> YES.

10:29:27 THEY ARE COMING UP FROM THE FIRST FLOOR.

10:29:29 JUST ONE SECOND.

10:29:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THEN WE'LL CONTINUE ON WITH CRAIG




10:29:35 ONLINE.

10:29:36 PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:29:39 >> MY NAME IS GREG BIRCHFIELD, HERE AS A MEMBER OF TAMPA

10:29:46 AND THE DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA.

10:29:50 EARLIER PBA PRESIDENT DESCRIBED THE POLICE PROFESSION AS

10:29:55 THE MOST SCRUTINIZED IN AMERICA.

10:29:57 YES.

10:29:58 GOOD.

10:29:58 OKAY.

10:29:59 ANY INSTITUTION WITH THE ABILITY TO END AND DISRUPT LIFE

10:30:02 WHETHER THROUGH PHYSICAL VIOLENCE OR STRUCTURAL VIOLENCE

10:30:07 SHOULD BE SCRUTINIZED ENDLESSLY.

10:30:10 IF IT'S TOO HARD TO SERVE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, I FOR

10:30:13 ONE AM A FAN OF DEFUNDING AND MOVING RESOURCES TO MORE

10:30:16 HUMANE RESPONSES TO CRISES.

10:30:21 THE POLICE EXISTS TO PROTECT PRIVATE PROPERTY.

10:30:24 WHATEVER PLATITUDES THE PBA WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT THAT'S

10:30:27 THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED AND NO AMOUNT OF GOOD

10:30:29 INTENTIONS, AND I WON'T BE UNREASONABLE, I AM SURE THERE

10:30:32 ARE GOOD INTENTIONS.

10:30:34 NO AMOUNT OF GOOD INTENTIONS OVERRIDES THE FUNDAMENTAL

10:30:37 TRUTH, AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED AN EMPOWERED CRB BOARD

10:30:40 INDEPENDENT OF THE STATE.

10:30:43 NOT ONLY DOES THE INSTITUTION OF POLICING EXIST TO

10:30:46 PROTECT PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT APPARENTLY ALSO DOES EXIST




10:30:48 TO PROTECT ITSELF, TO HOLD THE SO-CALLED THIN BLUE LINE.

10:30:53 WE HEARD THE RALLYING CRIES OF BLUE LIVES MATTER.

10:30:57 THERE ARE NO BLUE LIVES.

10:30:58 IT'S A JOB.

10:30:59 BUT THERE ARE BLACK LIVES.

10:31:01 THERE ARE NO BLUE LIVES.

10:31:03 BUT THERE ARE -- THERE ARE NO BLUE LIVES, BUT THERE WAS

10:31:09 DOMINIC MILKY.

10:31:11 THIS IS WHY IT'S CRITICAL FOR CITIZENS TO HAVE GREATER

10:31:13 OVERSIGHT.

10:31:15 SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE LOOKING OUT FOR THE REST OF US.

10:31:18 THERE ARE CRITICISMS THAT THE PROPOSAL WILL ONLY SERVE TO

10:31:21 POLITICIZE THE CRB.

10:31:23 I CALL BS.

10:31:24 POLICING IS INHERENTLY POLITICAL, AND RIGHT NOW THOSE

10:31:27 WITH POLITICAL POWER, SPECIFICALLY THE MAYOR, A FORMER

10:31:31 COP, HAS TOO MUCH POWER OVER PEOPLE TO APPOINT MEMBERS TO

10:31:34 THE BOARD.

10:31:36 I'M ASKING MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF

10:31:39 EXPANDING CRB, TO VOTE FOR A GREATER VOICE FROM PEOPLE

10:31:42 WHO ARE AFFECTED MOST BY POLICING.

10:31:44 THANK YOU.

10:31:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:31:46 OTHER PEOPLE ON THE SECOND FLOOR READY TO GO AND COME TO

10:31:50 THE KIOSK?




10:31:51 >>THE CLERK: NOT YET, CHAIR.

10:32:05 I JUST NEED ANOTHER MINUTE, PLEASE.

10:32:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE GO TO SHARON GRAHAM WHO IS NEXT

10:32:10 ON OUR CALL-IN.

10:32:11 IF YOU WOULD UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:32:12 GO AHEAD, SHARON GRAHAM.

10:32:14 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

10:32:18 THANK YOU.

10:32:19 MY NAME IS SHARON GRAHAM.

10:32:20 AND I AM A BUSINESS OWNER IN TAMPA, AND BUILD A TEAM

10:32:29 WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNITY AND ITS

10:32:32 POTENTIAL.

10:32:33 I AM HERE TO STRONGLY SUPPORT THE ACLU'S PROPOSAL, WHICH

10:32:37 INCLUDES REDUCING THE NUMBER OF MAYORAL APPOINTMENTS TO

10:32:42 THE CRB, MAKING THE CRB ATTORNEY INDEPENDENT, HAVING

10:32:49 SUBPOENA POWER FOR MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT,

10:32:54 ADDING A PROVISION THAT LET'S THE CRB INVESTIGATE A

10:32:57 MATTER FOR THE 50% CRB THAT WOULD NOT BE LIMITED ONLY TO

10:33:03 MEMBERS WHERE CERTAIN DISCIPLINES ARE INVOLVED, AND

10:33:06 LIMITING THE NUMBER OF FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT

10:33:10 PARTICIPATE IN THE CRB.

10:33:13 LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR

10:33:16 REPRESENTATIVES CANNOT INVESTIGATE THEMSELVES WITHOUT A

10:33:19 CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

10:33:21 LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS INCLUDING THE MAYOR CANNOT




10:33:24 INVESTIGATE INCLUDING THROUGH PROXY APPOINTMENTS OF CRB

10:33:29 MEMBERS AND THE CITY ATTORNEY CANNOT INVESTIGATE

10:33:32 THEMSELVES WITHOUT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

10:33:36 INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY ARE REQUIRED

10:33:40 TO UPHOLD THE PUBLIC TRUST.

10:33:42 THIS TRUST HAS BEEN ERODED THROUGH LACK OF JUSTICE AND

10:33:47 ABUSE OF POWER INCLUDING HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA WHICH

10:33:50 HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED BY INDEPENDENT LEGAL OBSERVERS AND

10:33:55 OTHER WITNESSES OF WHICH I AM ONE.

10:33:58 CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ARE IN CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE

10:34:01 ETHICAL PRINCIPLES UPON WHICH OUR CITIZENS GOVERNMENT

10:34:06 MUST OPERATE.

10:34:07 OUR GOVERNMENT TO BE US BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE MUST BE

10:34:12 ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE.

10:34:14 EARLIER TODAY, YOU HEARD THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS THE MOST

10:34:19 INVESTIGATED PROFESSION AND SUCH STANDARD OF SCRUTINY.

10:34:23 I ASSURE YOU THAT INCREASED ACCOUNTABILITY IS NOT

10:34:27 SCRUTINY OR ABUSE, IT IS SIMPLY HOLDING THE SWORN TO

10:34:31 PROTECT AND SERVE TO THE SAME LEGAL STANDARDS OF

10:34:33 ACCOUNTABILITY THAT WE CITIZENS ARE HELD TO.

10:34:38 YOU ALSO HEARD THAT, QUOTE, IF THESE CHANGES ARE MADE, WE

10:34:42 ARE --

10:34:43 I PROMISE THAT OUR ADVOCACY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL JUSTICE

10:34:47 IS SERVED, AND NO ONE IS ABOVE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE LAW.

10:34:52 THE PROPOSED CHANGES TODAY ARE NOT RADICAL.




10:34:56 THEY WILL SAVE THE CITY MONEY FROM SETTLEMENTS AND SERVE

10:35:00 AS A MUCH-NEEDED STEP TO BUILD THE PUBLIC TRUST.

10:35:02 I URGE YOUR SUPPORT AS AN ACLU PROPOSAL.

10:35:06 THANK YOU.

10:35:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:35:07 NEXT SPEAKER, BRIDGET MALONEY.

10:35:16 >> HI, CITY COUNCIL.

10:35:20 THANK YOU FOR YOUR MONTHS OF HARD WORK ON THIS.

10:35:30 OUR FIRST SPEAKER MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE

10:35:33 BEING -- ACLU BEING PAID.

10:35:38 I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO DEFEND THE POLICE OFFICERS

10:35:41 AND PROTECT THEM AND I DO RESPECT THAT.

10:35:43 I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD ENCOUNTERS WITH THE TAMPA POLICE

10:35:45 DURING MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

10:35:49 HOWEVER, I CALL IN SUPPORT THE PROPOSED CHANGES BECAUSE I

10:35:53 AM A GRADUATE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TAMPA, I'M 24 YEARS

10:35:57 OLD, AND I WENT TO BE A PROTEST THAT WAS PEACEFUL, AND I

10:36:01 WENT WITH MY MOM AND MY OLD ROOMMATE, AND TAMPA POLICE

10:36:08 FOLLOWED PEOPLE TO THEIR CARS, AND THEY PEPPER SPRAYED

10:36:11 THEM.

10:36:12 IT WAS THE FACT THAT THEY DID IT SO CONFIDENTLY.

10:36:15 IT WAS THE FACT THAT THEY ALMOST DID IT FOR SPORT.

10:36:18 AND THAT'S NOT EXAGGERATED, BECAUSE THAT WAS JUST ONE OF

10:36:21 MANY INSTANCES THAT WE SAW.

10:36:24 AND I WON'T TELL YOU OVER AND OVER THE MANY INSTANCES




10:36:27 WHERE I WITNESSED POLICE BRUTALITY FIRST HAND, WHERE MY

10:36:30 FRIENDS WERE SHOT WITH THESE RUBBER BULLETS.

10:36:32 WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS THEY ACTED THAT DAY ON SCOTT

10:36:35 STREET WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE HELD

10:36:38 ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND THEY WEREN'T.

10:36:40 THEY WERE RIGHT.

10:36:41 AND IT EMBOLDEN THEM.

10:36:44 WHAT YOU HEARD FROM EARLIER SPEAKERS IS THAT -- AND I

10:36:50 AGREE, YOU DO, BUT WHAT YOU DON'T NEED TO DO IS STAND

10:36:52 WITH THE PBA OR STAND WITH THE ACLU.

10:36:56 WHEN YOU SAY THINGS LIKE STAND WITH THE PBA AND WITH THE

10:36:59 MAYOR, BACK THE BLUE, THOSE UNDERTONES SHOW THEY ARE ALL

10:37:03 THE SAME.

10:37:06 WHEN MAYOR CASTOR WAS THE EX POLICE CHIEF AND NOW

10:37:08 OVERSEES CHIEF DUGAN AND NOW WANTS CONTROL OF THE CRB

10:37:16 COMPLETELY, THAT'S JUST A BLATANT CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

10:37:16 IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

10:37:18 AND THE CITY'S PROPOSAL THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT OVER

10:37:20 AND OVER AGAIN, REVIEWED BY LEGAL ENTITIES, I KNOW THAT

10:37:23 YOU ALL KNOW THAT --

10:37:28 AND WHEN I DO THINGS LIKE THE MEDIA IS AGAINST US, AND

10:37:31 THESE ACTIVIST GROUPS ARE AGAINST US, BUT I ONLY READ ONE

10:37:35 SCATHING OPINION PIECE IN "TAMPA BAY TIMES" AND IT WAS BY

10:37:38 OUR FIRST SPEAKER.

10:37:43 SO DON'T THINK OF THIS AS PBA VERSUS ACLU, AND YOU THINK




10:37:47 ABOUT THE MANY GROUPS AND MANY PEOPLE, THIS IS MY FIRST

10:37:50 TIME SPEAKING BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MY FIRST TIME

10:37:52 LISTENING TO ALL OF YOU; YOU SAT FOR HOURS HEARING MANY

10:37:56 YOUNG COMMUNITY MEMBERS, AND I WILL TELL YOU ONE THING, I

10:37:59 FOR ONE WILL NEVER CALL TAMPA POLICE, EVEN IF I AM IN

10:38:03 DANGER.

10:38:04 AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

10:38:07 LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER, THE POLICE ARE THE FIRST ONES

10:38:09 TO CALL WHEN WE ARE IN DANGER, WHEN WE ARE HURT,

10:38:12 ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

10:38:13 AND I KNOW PLENTY OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY

10:38:15 WITNESSED ON SCOTT STREET BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WERE

10:38:18 TREATED, THEY WILL NOT CALL THE POLICE.

10:38:21 THAT IS A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE.

10:38:23 THAT'S TERRIFYING.

10:38:25 IT SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE.

10:38:26 BUT I AM WORRIED TO CALL THE POLICE OR ANYONE IS WORRIED

10:38:30 TO CALL THE POLICE BECAUSE THEY ARE FEARFUL OF THE

10:38:33 REPERCUSSIONS AND THEY WORRY ABOUT THEIR PRIVATE

10:38:37 INFORMATION BEING LEAKED, OR REMOVED FROM OFFICE, AND IF

10:38:40 THE OFFICERS WANT ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY, THEN

10:38:44 GOT RID OF THE BAD OFFICERS.

10:38:46 THEY SHOULD WANT THIS.

10:38:47 THAT'S WHAT WE WANT.

10:38:48 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.




10:38:50 >> THANK YOU.

10:38:51 THANK YOU.

10:38:51 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT SPEAKER IS DEVAN CHEAVES.

10:38:56 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, MR. FELDER IS READY.

10:38:59 SO AFTER THE NEXT SPEAKER I WOULD REQUEST --

10:39:02 >>> BEFORE WE GO TO DEVAN, BECAUSE THE GENTLEMAN HAS BEEN

10:39:06 HAVING TECHNICAL ISSUES, WE ARE GOING TO BRING JOSH

10:39:10 FELDER ON THE LINE.

10:39:11 GO AHEAD.

10:39:12 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

10:39:13 I APPRECIATE IT.

10:39:14 ARE YOU THERE, JOSH?

10:39:15 >> YES, SIR, I AM HERE.

10:39:18 >>LUIS VIERA: GREAT.

10:39:19 AND IT'S A SHAME THAT MR. FELDER CAN'T BE HERE WITH US.

10:39:23 SINCE YOU CAN'T, YOU WANTED TO SHOW FOLKS WHO ARE

10:39:25 WATCHING, I GUESS WE CAN'T REALLY SEE THIS, BUT I HAVE

10:39:28 SOME PICTURES OF YOU.

10:39:29 THIS IS OF YOUNG JOSH FEDERAL WHO IS 23 YEARS OLD, I

10:39:33 BELIEVE.

10:39:33 I MET JOSH THROUGH TAMPA BAY BEST BUDDIES, A WONDERFUL

10:39:37 ORGANIZATION.

10:39:40 FOUNDED BY THE SCHRIVER FAMILY SOME TIME AGO.

10:39:44 AND JOSH BECAME -- AND HERE HE IS WITH THIS SUPER BOWL,

10:39:50 THE FIRST PERSON WITH A DEVELOPMENTAL OR INTELLECTUAL OR




10:39:55 NEUROLOGICAL DISABILITY TO DANCE AT THE SUPER BOWL.

10:39:57 AND JOSH IS HERE FROM TAMPA.

10:39:59 THIS IS JOSH AT BEST BUDDIES EVENTS.

10:40:02 THERE HE IS RIGHT THERE.

10:40:03 GOD BLESS HIM, LOOKING VERY DAPPER THERE.

10:40:06 THERE'S JOSH WITH HIS USF OUTFIT.

10:40:09 IN FACT THAT'S WHERE I MET JOSH AT USF BEST BUDDIES.

10:40:13 HERE IS JOSH AGAIN.

10:40:15 AND THEN THIS.

10:40:16 BECAUSE I DO THIS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE JOSH.

10:40:18 AND HERE IS JOSH WITH HIS FRIEND KELLY HOWARD WHO

10:40:21 ACTUALLY SPOKE TO TAMPA CITY COUNCIL A FEW YEARS AGO, AND

10:40:26 ALSO WITH BEST BUDDIES.

10:40:28 BUT WE WANTED TO HONOR JOSH BECAUSE OF HIS WORK, AND JUST

10:40:32 REALLY BEING A LOCAL TRAILBLAZER WHEN IT COMES TO

10:40:36 SPORTING EVENTS, ET CETERA.

10:40:37 JOSH IS AN I HAD INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS MANY, MANY DANCING

10:40:41 HEROES, IN HIS LIFE INCLUDING THE LATE MICHAEL JACKSON

10:40:46 AMONG MANY OTHERS.

10:40:48 AND JOSH AUDITIONED, WAS ACCEPTED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE

10:40:51 SUPER BOWL HALF TIME SHOW, AGAIN MAKING HIM THE FIRST

10:40:54 PERSON WITH SUCH A DISABILITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SUPER

10:40:57 BOWL, AND I DIDN'T KNOW IT.

10:40:59 I THINK JOSH KEPT IT A SECRET FROM A LOT OF HIS FRIENDS,

10:41:02 BUT WHEN I READ IT, I SMILED BIG, IT MADE ME REALLY,




10:41:07 REALLY HAPPY, BECAUSE I KNOW HOW MUCH -- OVER 896 MILLION

10:41:13 PEOPLE WASHED JOSH AS WELL AS 200 OTHER TALENTED DANCERS

10:41:17 PERFORM AT THE HALF TIME SHOW.

10:41:19 JOSH IS A YOUNG MAN, 23 YEARS OLD, INTELLECTUALLY

10:41:22 DISABLED, AND HE HAS WHAT HE CALLS A PHOTOGRAPHIC MEMORY,

10:41:26 WHICH CREDITED HIM TO BECOME A GOOD DANCER.

10:41:31 HISTORY ABILITIES AS HELPED HIM BREAK DOWN BARRIERS FOR

10:41:35 THOSE WITH SPECIAL NEEDS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

10:41:37 AND FOR THAT, WE HONOR JOSH WITH A TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

10:41:40 COMMENDATION, AND JOSH, I WILL BE MEETING YOU, IF I MAY,

10:41:44 IN PERSON, TO GIVE YOU THAT TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

10:41:47 COMMENDATION, BUT WE JUST WANTED TO GIVE THIS TIME WHERE

10:41:50 COUNCIL MEMBERS COULD HONOR YOU, JOSH, FOR THE WORK THAT

10:41:52 YOU DID AT THE SUPER BOWL, TO HONOR YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS

10:41:56 AND YOUR FAMILY, AND ALSO, JOSH, JUST TO LET YOUR

10:41:59 EXPERIENCE SERVE AS A MESSAGE, AND AS A PURPOSE FOR ALL

10:42:05 THE COMMUNITY.

10:42:05 THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE,

10:42:08 MYSELF INCLUDED, MY OLDEST BROTHER JUAN IS INTELLECTUALLY

10:42:12 DISABLED.

10:42:13 AND SO IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE TO ME AND MY FAMILY.

10:42:16 SO WHEN I SEE YOU DO THAT, JOSH, I KNOW THE IMPORTANCE

10:42:21 THAT THAT BRINGS TO EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY, AND THE

10:42:24 MESSAGE THAT IT SEND THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY HAVE A

10:42:27 DISABILITY, WHETHER IT'S AN INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY,




10:42:30 WHETHER IT'S AUTISM, WHETHER IT'S DOWN SYNDROME, WHETHER

10:42:34 IT'S CEREBRAL PALSY, THAT YOU CAN STILL DREAM DREAMS, AND

10:42:38 YOU CAN STILL DO GREAT THINGS.

10:42:39 AND WHAT GREAT THINGS ARE IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.

10:42:43 FOR SOME PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO HAVE THEIR KIDS SIT IN A

10:42:46 MOVIE OR IN A CHURCH OR IN A RELIGIOUS SERVICE IS A GREAT

10:42:49 THING.

10:42:49 GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL MAY BE LIKE ME GRADUATING

10:42:53 FROM HARVARD LAW SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, A GREAT THING I.DIDN'T

10:42:56 GO TO HARVARD, BY THE WAY.

10:42:58 BUT THAT'S A GREAT THING.

10:43:00 EVERYBODY, THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS ARE SUBJECTIVE.

10:43:03 BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT JOSH AND WHAT HE'S DONE AND BEING

10:43:06 ACTIVE AT USF BEST BUDDIES WHERE I GOT TO MEET HIM, AND

10:43:09 DANCING AT THE SUPER BOWL, IMAGINE THAT.

10:43:11 IMAGINE JOSH GOING TO AUDITION, TO DANCE AT THE SUPER

10:43:15 BOWL, AND THEN BEING CHOSEN, AND THEN GOING ON, AND JUST

10:43:21 SURPRISING THE HECK OUT OF ALL OF US WHO KNEW HIM, WHO

10:43:26 SAW HIM UP THERE.

10:43:27 WE WANT TO PRESENT JOSH WITH A TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

10:43:29 COMMENDATION WHICH I WILL BE GIVING YOU, JOSH, AT A

10:43:32 SEPARATE TIME, AND IF OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS WISH TO

10:43:35 SPEAK, AND THEN, JOSH, YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE, AND JOCK

10:43:39 WELL LIEN CLARK WITH TAMPA BAY BEST BUDDIES WAS GOING TO

10:43:42 BE HERE BUT UNFORTUNATELY HAD A SCHEDULING CONFLICTED




10:43:46 WHEN WE RAN A LITTLE LATER BUT SHE WANTED TO BE HERE

10:43:49 REPRESENTING TAMPA BAY BEST BUDDIES WHICH IS A WONDERFUL

10:43:51 ORGANIZATION, SERVES SO MANY GROUPS LIKE SPECIAL

10:43:54 OLYMPICS, BOTH OF WHICH CAME FROM THE SHRIVER KENNEDY

10:43:58 FAMILY, BY THE WAY.

10:43:59 SO THANK YOU FOR THAT, MR. CHAIR.

10:44:02 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:44:03 COUNCILMAN CITRO, I SAW YOUR HAND UP.

10:44:05 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.

10:44:08 COUNCILMAN VIERA, THANK YOU FOR CALLING OUR ATTENTION TO

10:44:10 THE WONDERFUL THING THAT THIS YOUNG MAN HAS ACCOMPLISHED.

10:44:16 THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE, LET ALONE CHILDREN, ADULTS, THAT

10:44:19 WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BEEN SEEN BY MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF

10:44:23 PEOPLE ACROSS OUR WORLD.

10:44:25 JOSH, YOUR HARD WORK, YOUR DEDICATION, AND YOUR TALENT

10:44:30 GOT YOU THAT MOMENT IN HISTORY.

10:44:34 AND I AM SO PROUD OF YOU.

10:44:35 CONGRATULATIONS, JOSH.

10:44:36 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

10:44:38 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN GUDES THEN COUNCILMAN

10:44:41 DINGFELDER.

10:44:41 >>ORLANDO GUDES: ONCE AGAIN, MR. VIERA BROUGHT A YOUNG

10:44:45 PERSON TO THIS COUNCIL WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING

10:44:48 THAT MANY WOULD LIKE TO DO AND BE PART OF.

10:44:52 I DO KNOW ABOUT THAT, BEING AROUND YOUNG PEOPLE ALL MY




10:44:59 LIFE, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, WANT TO PLAY, AND BE ABLE

10:45:03 TO PLAY AND ALSO CHEER AS WELL, THE SPECIAL NEEDS

10:45:09 PROGRAM.

10:45:10 IT'S A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED

10:45:12 AND BE A PART OF.

10:45:14 GLAD TO BE A PART OF THIS COUNCIL AND PARTICIPATE AT

10:45:22 FREEDOM PARK YESTERDAY AT MACFARLANE PARK.

10:45:26 IT WAS A GREAT DAY YESTERDAY.

10:45:27 A YOUNG WOMAN BEING ABLE TO BE WITH HER FRIEND AND BEING

10:45:33 ABLE TO SHOW OTHERS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER, EVERYONE

10:45:35 WITH A DISABILITY AND THOSE WHO DO NOT, CAN PLAY

10:45:38 TOGETHER, THE SAME PLACE, A GREAT SPHERE.

10:45:41 JOSH, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

10:45:42 THANK YOU FOR BEING A TRAILBLAZER AND SHOWING AMERICA WHO

10:45:46 YOU ARE, WHAT YOU ARE, AND CONTINUE TO STRIVE.

10:45:48 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

10:45:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: HI, JOSH.

10:45:55 CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY?

10:45:57 >> YES, SIR, I CAN HEAR YOU.

10:45:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: HOW ARE YOU DOING?

10:46:00 SO I AM DINGFELDER, AND YOU ARE JOSH FELDER.

10:46:05 AND MAYBE A LONG TIME AGO WE WERE RELATED.

10:46:09 BUT I AM SURE OUR DANCE SKILLS ARE FAR APART.

10:46:14 ON A SERIOUS NOTE, WHEN I WATCHED THAT SUPER BOWL DANCE

10:46:17 ROUTINE, I WAS LIKE SO IMPRESSED, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF




10:46:21 THE VIRTUAL SITUATION AND ALL THE PRACTICING AND

10:46:25 DIFFICULTY IN PRACTICING AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT

10:46:27 ON.

10:46:28 THAT WAS SUCH A COOL DANCE ROUTINE.

10:46:31 AND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HALF OF IT WHEN YOU GUYS WENT

10:46:34 INTO THE MIRRORED CHAMBER AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

10:46:38 THAT WAS REALLY AWESOME.

10:46:39 BUT ANYWAY, COUNCILMAN VIERA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

10:46:42 BRINGING JOSH ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO OUR ATTENTION.

10:46:46 WE APPRECIATE THAT SO MUCH.

10:46:48 AND JOSH, WE APPRECIATE YOU SO MUCH.

10:46:50 AND WE WISH YOU ALL THE BEST.

10:46:52 AND I KNOW GREAT THINGS WILL COME YOUR WAY.

10:46:55 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:46:56 ANYBODY ELSE?

10:46:57 IF NOT I WILL WRAP IT UP.

10:46:59 JOSH, THANK YOU FOR INSPIRING SO MANY OF US.

10:47:03 CERTAINLY YOU HAVE HEARD COUNCILMEMBERS SPEAK, THE IMPACT

10:47:06 THAT YOU HAVE MADE, AND CONGRATULATIONS FOR PERFORMING

10:47:09 THERE AT THE SUPER BOWL HALF TIME SHOW.

10:47:13 I WATCHED THE SHOW AND I THOUGHT IT WAS FANTASTIC, BEING

10:47:16 A FAN, I REALLY APPRECIATE AND ENJOY HIS MUSIC.

10:47:22 I WOULD THINK HE'S LIKE IN MANY WAYS A MODERN DAY MICHAEL

10:47:25 JACKSON.

10:47:26 THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER MICHAEL JACKSON, BUT IF YOU




10:47:29 LOOK AT HIS PERFORMANCE, AND YOU WERE PART OF IT, SO THE

10:47:33 SYMBOLISM AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES BEHIND IT, THERE'S A

10:47:36 MEANING BEHIND EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES.

10:47:37 SO YOU WERE PART OF IT.

10:47:39 YOU WERE PART OF HISTORY.

10:47:40 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WATCHED YOU.

10:47:42 SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOURSELF.

10:47:43 WE ARE CERTAINLY VERY PROUD OF YOU, OF BEING PART OF THIS

10:47:46 VERY SPECIAL MOMENT RIGHT HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

10:47:49 FOLLOWED BY A GREAT SUPER BOWL.

10:47:50 AND SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

10:47:52 >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR, IF MR. FELDER WANTS

10:47:56 TO SAY ANYTHING.

10:47:57 >> YES.

10:48:00 SO I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I REALLY DO APPRECIATE ALL OF

10:48:03 THE SUPPORT AND ALL THE GREAT COMMENTS.

10:48:12 I WILL ALWAYS ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE.

10:48:14 BUT I ALSO WANT TO -- [~AUDIO DISTORTION~],

10:48:29 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:48:31 >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR, I ALSO WANTED TO

10:48:33 HIGHLIGHT THAT I REMEMBER SEEING JOSH DURING THE 2019

10:48:37 CAMPAIGN.

10:48:37 HE WENT TO A MAYORAL FUNCTION, AND HE STOOD UP AND HE

10:48:41 ASKED ALL THE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR MAYOR, AND BACK THEN

10:48:44 I THINK THERE WERE ABOUT 380 OF THEM, BUT WHAT THEY ARE




10:48:48 GOING TO DO FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES LIKE HIM.

10:48:50 SO JOSH HAS WHAT OW JEWISH BROTHERS AND SISTERS CALL

10:48:55 CHUTZPAH.

10:48:59 SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:48:59 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:49:00 WE'LL CONTINUE WITH PUBLIC COMMENT.

10:49:01 WE HAVE DEVAN CHEAVES ON THE LINE.

10:49:06 PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF.

10:49:07 >> CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME?

10:49:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, WE CAN.

10:49:10 GO AHEAD.

10:49:11 >> MY NAME IS DEVAN CHEAVES, AND I AM SPEAKING ON

10:49:16 BEHALF -- IN SUPPORT OF WHAT OTHER FOLKS HAVE SUPPORTED

10:49:22 IN THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD AS FAR AS THE ACLU.

10:49:28 I WANT TO SAY A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE ALREADY SAID MOST OF

10:49:30 THE THINGS BUT HOW WE CAN SPECIFICALLY IMPROVE THE

10:49:36 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD BUT I WANT TO SHARE MY LIST BECAUSE

10:49:39 I HEARD SOME THINGS, AND LISTENING TO FOLKS WHO ARE

10:49:44 SAYING THAT THE POLICE UNION IS DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT,

10:49:47 THAT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG, I HAD SOME EXPERIENCES,

10:49:51 LITERALLY HERE IN TAMPA, A MONTH AFTER BRIANNA WAS

10:49:55 MURDERED IN HER HOME, OF NEGATIVE INTERACTION WITH THE

10:49:59 POLICE OFFICER.

10:50:00 I WILL NEVER FORGET HIS NAME OR FACE WHO WAS NOT WEARING

10:50:03 A MASK, HE WAS NOT SIX FEET AWAY, AND MIND YOU WE ARE IN




10:50:07 A PANDEMIC.

10:50:07 IT'S SIMPLY BECAUSE MIND YOU I LIVE IN EAST TAMPA.

10:50:12 I SEE A LOT OF POLICE PRESENCE IN MY AREA.

10:50:15 AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT OKAY, THAT ARE NOT

10:50:18 RIGHT, THE WAY PEOPLE ARE BEING TREATED, I HAVE BEEN

10:50:24 FOLLOWED, TRAILED BY POLICE, I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

10:50:30 I HAVE LIVED IN COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN OVERPOLICED,

10:50:34 BY MY PARENTS, IN THE 70s.

10:50:38 I HEARD THE WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO FOR THAT ERA.

10:50:44 SO I JUST WANT TO NAME LIKE A LOT OF WHAT WE ARE HEARING

10:50:48 IS MAYBE IT'S ONE PERSPECTIVE BUT I THINK THIS IS ALL OF

10:50:53 OUR PERSPECTIVES THAT ARE BEING LAID OUT HERE, RIGHT,

10:50:56 BECAUSE IT IS VERY CLEAR.

10:50:58 YOU CANNOT ERASE THE EXPERIENCES OF BLACK AND BROWN

10:51:01 PEOPLE FOR GENERATIONS, RIGHT, SO -- SORRY, I'M JUST

10:51:10 VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL TOUCHED RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE TO HEAR

10:51:14 THAT.

10:51:19 MAKE VERY SMALL CHANGES.

10:51:20 THESE ARE NOT RADICAL CHANGES THAT WE ARE ASKING FOR THE

10:51:23 CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

10:51:24 THIS IS ONLY GOING TO INCREASE ACCOUNTABILITY AND

10:51:27 INCREASE -- FOR ME PERSONALLY, GENERATIONS.

10:51:33 I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WORK OR INPUT IT TAKES FOR US AS A

10:51:37 BLACK COMMUNITY AND BROWN PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY HAVE THAT.

10:51:44 I WAS FOLLOWED TO THE LAUNDROMAT, TOLD ME MY TAG WAS NOT




10:51:51 COMPLIANT.

10:51:51 I KNEW THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

10:51:53 WHEN HE FOUND OUT --

10:51:57 THESE ARE INSTANCES THAT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME IN THE AREAS

10:51:59 THAT I LIVED IN, THAT ARE NOT SEMINOLE HEIGHTS, THOSE

10:52:06 EAST TAMPA, RIGHT?

10:52:08 SO THERE'S DEFINITELY A TAIL OF -- TALE TWO OF CITIES

10:52:13 GOING ON HERE.

10:52:13 I AM ECHOING ALL THE SUPPORT FOR FOLKS WHO WENT BEFORE

10:52:16 ME.

10:52:17 YOU APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING AS COHERENT WITH MY THOUGHTS,

10:52:21 BUT I AM REALLY TOUCHED AND UNFORTUNATELY IN THE WRONG

10:52:25 WAY.

10:52:28 ALSO JUST LISTENING TO THE FACT THAT WE ARE HERE, FIVE

10:52:31 YEARS LATER.

10:52:32 I WAS A PART OF THE GROUP THAT ORIGINALLY PUSHED FOR THIS

10:52:36 TO GET HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST

10:52:40 KIND OF --

10:52:43 SO FOR THE SAKE --

10:52:50 >>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:52:51 NEXT IS MAJ, AND WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE DOWNSTAIRS.

10:52:57 THAT AND WE GO INTO THE RECORDED HE IS MESSAGES WHICH

10:53:00 THERE ARE SEVEN.

10:53:01 MAJ, YOU ARE ON.

10:53:05 UNMUTE YOURSELF.




10:53:06 GO AHEAD, SIR.

10:53:13 ALL RIGHT.

10:53:14 WE WILL HOLD THAT AND GO TO NINA TATLOCK.

10:53:21 >>THE CLERK: MAJ UNMUTED HIMSELF.

10:53:25 >> I'M SORRY, GUYS.

10:53:27 THANK YOU FOR WELCOMING ME TO THE 21st CENTURY. MY

10:53:30 NAME IS MAJ VASIGH, AND SOME OF YOU KNOW ME.

10:53:32 I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ARE WE A --

10:53:44 AS BECOMES MORE POLITICALLY POLARIZED ONLINE, WE NEED TO

10:53:48 ASK OURSELVES, ARE WE A CITY WITH POLITICAL EXTREMIST?

10:53:53 IF SO

10:53:59 BY SUGGESTING THAT THE PUBLIC WILL BE INEVITABLY BIASED

10:54:02 AGAINST THEM, WHAT WE IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION CALL THE

10:54:07 THINGS SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

10:54:08 THEY EXPECT US TO RESPECT THEIR JUDGMENT UNCONDITIONALLY,

10:54:11 IF THEY HAVE ZERO RESPECT FOR THE PUBLIC.

10:54:14 THEIR OPPOSITION TO AN INDEPENDENT PUBLIC OVERSIGHT IS

10:54:17 SELF-EVIDENCE OF THEIR OWN PREJUDICE AGAINST THE PEOPLE

10:54:20 WHO THEY SERVE.

10:54:21 THE INTELLECT AND THE CHARACTER.

10:54:23 COMMUNITY LEADERS CANNOT BE MORE CLEAR.

10:54:25 CENTRAL TO THE PREMISE OF THEIR ARGUMENT AGAINST

10:54:27 INDEPENDENCE IS THAT APPARENTLY WE COPS ASSUME WHEN ALL

10:54:31 HATE COPS.

10:54:32 NO WONDER THEY TREAT US LIKE THIS.




10:54:35 IT'S LOGICALLY ABSURD.

10:54:38 ALSO PRESIDENT DANNY ALVAREZ MENTIONED POLICE OVERSIGHT

10:54:43 THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE.

10:54:47 WHAT THEY DIDN'T MENTION WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY PROPOSED

10:54:50 ALL OF THOSE, TOO.

10:54:52 COMMON SENSE TODAY IN 2021 WHERE MOST OF THE TIME ITS

10:54:57 ANTI-COP ATTACKS.

10:54:59 I TRUST YOU GUYS BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL MEN, AND THAT'S A

10:55:02 DIFFERENT CONVERSATION FOR A DIFFERENT DAY.

10:55:04 SOME OF YOU KNOW THAT I AM A DEFERENCE ATTORNEY WITH 13

10:55:06 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

10:55:07 I KNOW THANK COUNCILMAN GUDES IS A FORMER COP AND

10:55:11 DINGFELDER IS A FORMER PUBLIC DEFENDER BUT WE ALL KNOW

10:55:14 WHAT HAPPENS BEHIND THE SCENE.

10:55:15 THREE OF US, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO

10:55:18 BE SOLVED AND COPS LIKE US ARE HUMAN AND THEREFORE

10:55:21 SOMETIMES FLAWED.

10:55:22 THEIR EXISTENCE TO OVERSIGHT IS BASED ON THIS HE --

10:55:28 EMOTION OF MANY PEOPLE.

10:55:30 IN 2008 I WAS UNLAWFULLY ARRESTED BY AN OFFICER AND THIS

10:55:35 CITY COUNCIL PAID ME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR IT.

10:55:37 2015 THE CITY ATTORNEY SENT ME A LETTER THREAT KNOWING

10:55:41 SUE ME AND FILE A BAR COMPLAINT AND SHE HAD SOME OF HER

10:55:45 OFFICERS WERE OFFENDED BY MY LANGUAGE ON THE WEBSITE AND

10:55:47 THAT TPD HAS A REPUTATION FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.




10:55:52 "TAMPA BAY TIMES" PRINTED SOME CONCLUSIVE DATA SHOWING

10:55:55 THE -- WALKING WHILE BLACK.

10:56:00 AN OFFICER DRAGGED HER ACROSS THE GROUND TO THE JAIL.

10:56:10 IN 2020 THE SAME TPD OFFICER HAD A RACIAL PROBE AGAINST

10:56:17 ME ONLINE AND THEN FILED A FORMAL BAR COMPLAINT AGAINST

10:56:20 ME.

10:56:23 IT WAS MALICIOUS, THAT COST ME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN MY

10:56:28 OWNER ATTORNEYS' FEES.

10:56:29 AND I'M A LAWYER.

10:56:30 HOW MUCH INDIGNITY MUST WE FACE?

10:56:33 SO WE THE PEOPLE MUST ASK OURSELVES AS A STATUS QUO WORK

10:56:36 FOR US.

10:56:37 NO.

10:56:38 AS A STATUS QUO WORK FOR THE POLICE UNION.

10:56:43 THE POLICE UNION ISN'T GOING TO LIKE THE CHANGES OF AN

10:56:47 INDEPENDENT CRB, BUT WE JUDGE THEM AS MUCH AS THEY

10:56:55 PREJUDGE US.

10:56:59 AND IRRESPONSIBLY MAGNIFY THAT ACCUSATION.

10:57:02 THEY ARE THE PUBLIC, TOO.

10:57:03 THEY ARE, AIR QUOTES, US.

10:57:05 WE, CITY COUNCIL, AN INDEPENDENT CRB AND FIGHT BAD COPS.

10:57:14 AND HELP THE COMMUNITY SOLVE PROBLEMS.

10:57:17 SHOW YOUR COURAGE.

10:57:20 STRENGTHEN THE CRB.

10:57:22 THANK YOU.




10:57:22 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU.

10:57:23 NEXT IS NINA TATLOCK.

10:57:28 THAT CONCLUDE OUR ONLINE SPEAKERS.

10:57:30 THEN WE HAVE TWO IN PERSON.

10:57:31 >> CAN YOU HEAR ME?

10:57:34 >> YES, WE CAN.

10:57:35 GO AHEAD.

10:57:35 >> THANK YOU.

10:57:36 MY NAME IS NINA TATLOCK.

10:57:43 I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK.

10:57:44 AND I WANT TO ASK THAT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TO PLEASE

10:57:51 HAVE A STRONG CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

10:57:53 THE MAYOR SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY APPOINTMENTS TO THIS BOARD.

10:57:58 THE BOARD NEED TO HAVE SUBPOENA POWER TO INVESTIGATE

10:58:01 COMPLAINTS AND IT NEED TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY,

10:58:05 SO THERE ARE NO CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

10:58:08 PLEASE VOTE YES AND SUPPORT THIS STRONG CITIZENS REVIEW

10:58:15 BOARD.

10:58:16 WHILE I AM SPEAKING, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK THAT OUR

10:58:19 CITY COUNCIL SUPPORT A STRONG CITIZENS PROGRAM INSTEAD OF

10:58:25 SENDING POLICE OUT TO RESPOND TO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

10:58:29 THERE ARE TOO MANY TIMES WHEN POLICE INVOLVEMENT IN

10:58:33 MENTAL HEALTH CALLS END IN DEVASTATING RESULTS.

10:58:40 THIS IS ALSO WHY WE NEED A VERY STRONG CRB.

10:58:44 PLEASE LISTEN TO THE MANY, MANY CITIZENS WHO ASK FOR




10:58:50 BETTER -- IN THESE REGARD.

10:58:55 I THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

10:58:57 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

10:58:58 THAT CONCLUDES THE VIRTUAL SPEAKER REGISTRATION.

10:59:01 WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE DOWN ON THE SECOND FLOOR, IF YOU ARE

10:59:04 HERE TO SPEAK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, PLEASE APPROACH THE

10:59:06 LECTERN.

10:59:09 >> HELLO.

10:59:14 THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

10:59:16 MY NAME IS DOROTHY ESKINIS.

10:59:19 I LIVE IN YBOR CITY.

10:59:21 I HAVE NOT EXPECTED TO SPEAK TODAY, BUT I AM GLAD TO.

10:59:29 I DON'T HAVE AN EMOTIONAL PLEA TO YOU BUT CERTAINLY

10:59:35 HEARTFELT.

10:59:37 A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MYSELF AND WHY I AM SPEAKING.

10:59:40 I AM 70 YEARS OLD.

10:59:42 AND I WAS RAISED BY THE GREATEST GENERATION RIGHT AFTER

10:59:48 WORLD WAR II.

10:59:50 THE PEOPLE THAT EDUCATED ME IN SCHOOL AND GOVERNMENT WERE

10:59:54 MOSTLY VETERANS OF WORLD WAR II, AND THAT MADE A GREAT

10:59:58 IMPACT ON MY LIFE, AS FAR AS RESPECT FOR THE

11:00:02 CONSTITUTION, AND LIVING BY THE CONSTITUTION.

11:00:07 SO I BRING TWO THINGS WITH ME.

11:00:09 I LIVE IN A VERY UNDERSERVED COMMUNITY.

11:00:14 AND EXPERIENCE WITHIN POLICE HAVING A SON WHO STUDY




11:00:22 STUDIED CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND ENTERTAINED THE THOUGHT OF

11:00:25 BECOMING INVOLVED WITH POLICE.

11:00:27 NOW, AS A PERSON WHO APPRECIATES THE CONSTITUTION, AND

11:00:37 THE LAW OF THE LAND, WHAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT WHAT'S GOING

11:00:41 ON NOW, ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE THE ACLU, I THINK THEY HAVE

11:00:45 DONE A LOT OF GREAT THINGS, BUT EVEN ALAN DERSHOWITZ WHO

11:00:50 WORKED WITH THEM SO MUCH AND HAS DONE SO MUCH WITH THEM

11:00:53 AND FOR THEM IS DISTANCING HIMSELF, IS GETTING INVOLVED

11:00:57 IN VERY UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTIONS SUCH AS SUBPOENA RIGHT

11:01:03 IS NOT IN OUR CITY COUNCIL'S CONSTITUTION, AND THE LAW IS

11:01:07 THE LAW.

11:01:10 NOW, LIVING IN AN JUNKED SERVED COMMUNITY, AND I HAVE

11:01:13 HEARD SOME OF THE WORDS WITH PEOPLE BEFORE ME.

11:01:18 NOW, MY FAMILY COMES FROM AN IMMIGRATION NOT TOO FAR IN

11:01:24 THE DISTANT PAST, AND AT THAT TIME, FOR MY PEOPLE, WHEN

11:01:32 THE KU KLUX KLAN BURNED A CROSS, IT WAS FOR MY PEOPLE AS

11:01:37 WELL, AND I REMEMBER MY FAMILY TALKING MANY TIMES ABOUT

11:01:40 HOW THEY USED TO PULL THE SHEETS OVER THEIR HEAD BECAUSE

11:01:43 THEY WERE AFRAID WHEN THEY SAW THE CROSS BURNING AND IT

11:01:48 WAS FOR THEM.

11:01:49 SO I AM NOT COMPLETELY CALLUSED TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE

11:01:53 SAID BECAUSE THOSE EXPERIENCES HAVE -- TOO.

11:01:58 NOW I WOULD NEVER SAY THE POLICE OR ANYBODY OR ANY GROUP

11:02:05 IS FREE FROM ERROR.

11:02:08 CERTAINLY THAT HAPPENS.




11:02:09 MISTAKES HAPPEN.

11:02:10 BAD THINGS HAPPEN SOMETIMES.

11:02:12 WRONG THINGS HAPPEN SOMETIMES.

11:02:14 BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE TIME, THEY ARE

11:02:19 PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING VERY, VERY HARD JOBS UNDER VERY,

11:02:22 VERY HARD SITUATIONS AND DOING THE VERY BEST THEY CAN.

11:02:27 NOW, THAT BEING SAID, I AM BEHIND THE POLICE UNION AND AS

11:02:35 A PERSON WHO COMES FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT I NOW LIVE IN,

11:02:38 I WILL SAY MY APPRECIATION HAS EVEN UPPED MORE BECAUSE I

11:02:42 HAVE HAD TO CALL A FEW TIMES FOR SOMETHING AS SMALL AS

11:02:45 NOISE DISTURBANCE LATE IN THE NIGHT, AND I AM GOING TO

11:02:50 TELL YOU, I HAVE BEEN SO IMPRESSED BY THE RESPONSE, THE

11:02:55 KINDNESS, AND JUST LIKE I SAID, IN THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD

11:03:00 THERE, I HAVE NOT SEEN, NOTICED OR AT ALL AN OPPRESSED

11:03:07 OVER POLICING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

11:03:10 SO I THANK THEM.

11:03:12 I WANT TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK THEM AT THIS

11:03:14 POINT FOR MAKING TAMPA A VERY SECURE AND DESIRABLE PLACE

11:03:18 TO LIVE.

11:03:18 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:03:19 >> SO THANK YOU.

11:03:21 AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

11:03:22 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

11:03:23 WE HAVE ONE MORE SPEAKER.

11:03:44 GO AHEAD.




11:03:44 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

11:03:45 >> VICKI FRANKLIN, BORN AND RAISED TAMPA, FLORIDA, GREW

11:03:51 UP WITH THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, MY HUSBAND BORN AND

11:03:54 RAISED TAMPA, FLORIDA, WORKED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT,

11:03:57 I WORKED WITH THE SHERIFFS AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

11:03:59 ORGANIZATION.

11:04:00 I TOTALLY RESPECT THEM.

11:04:01 WE GREW UP WHEN YOU RESPECT THE POLICE, YOU RESPECT THE

11:04:03 LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND THE KID NOWADAYS DO NOT.

11:04:08 AND YOU SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

11:04:11 I WAS EMPLOYED BY HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SCHOOL, AND THEY

11:04:15 DON'T TEACH IT ANYMORE.

11:04:17 PARENTS DON'T TEACH IT ANYMORE.

11:04:18 MY THING IS, WE DON'T NEED EXTRA GOVERNMENT.

11:04:23 WHEN STAND WITH THE MAYOR ON THE FACT THAT WE SUPPORT THE

11:04:26 POLICE UNION.

11:04:27 IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR THEM TO HAVE THIS PROPOSAL.

11:04:32 I MEAN, A LAW IS A LAW.

11:04:34 WHY DO WE NEED MORE ENFORCEMENT, MORE GOVERNMENT INVOLVED

11:04:37 WITH THE POLICE?

11:04:38 I THINK THEY HAVE DONE A DARNED GOOD JOB AND I HAVE BEEN

11:04:41 HERE 66 YEARS, AND I THINK THEY CAN HANDLE THEMSELVES.

11:04:45 THEY DON'T NEED, WHEN YOU GET OUTSIDERS IN, THAT DON'T

11:04:49 KNOW HOW THE BUSINESS IS RUN.

11:04:50 YOU ARE GOING TO GET MORE PROBLEMS THAN YOU EVER THOUGHT




11:04:54 IN YOUR LIFE.

11:04:55 I THINK THE UNION IS DOING A GREAT JOB IN HAVING A

11:04:59 SON-IN-LAW IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND A DAUGHTER IN

11:05:02 THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, THEY DON'T NEED THIS HASSLE.

11:05:06 THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THEIR JOB AND DO IT CORRECTLY,

11:05:09 AND I THINK MOST OFFICERS DO.

11:05:12 YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO MAKES A

11:05:14 MISTAKE.

11:05:15 BUT I THINK YOU ALL SHOULD LEAVE THEM ALONE, LET IT GO

11:05:18 WITH THE MAYOR AND SUPPORT THE POLICE UNION 100%.

11:05:21 THANK YOU.

11:05:21 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:05:23 THAT CONCLUDES IN-PERSON AND ONLINE PUBLIC COMMENT.

11:05:26 NOW WE HAVE SEVEN RECORDED MESSAGES.

11:05:27 >> MY NAME IS MARI FERNANDEZ, I LIVE IN TAMPA, ADDRESS IS

11:05:37 4949 MARCLISA DRIVE, APARTMENT 1301, TAMPA, FLORIDA 33624

11:05:44 AND I AM CALLING TO OBJECT TO THE FORMATION OF A CITIZENS

11:05:50 REVIEW BOARD FOR THE TAMPA POLICE.

11:05:53 I FIND IT TO BE COMPLETELY APPALLING, AND ACTUALLY IT IS

11:05:58 UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

11:06:00 THE RESEARCH THAT I HAVE DONE, EXTENSIVE RESEARCH,

11:06:05 COMPELS ME TO STATE THAT IN 2017 THE FLORIDA SUPREME

11:06:13 COURT RULED THAT SUCH A BOARD CAN'T COMPEL OFFICERS TO

11:06:21 APPEAR WHILE UNDER INVESTIGATIONS BECAUSE IT VIOLATES THE

11:06:22 OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.




11:06:27 SO IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

11:06:29 IT MAKES NO SENSE.

11:06:31 AND IT WOULD PLACE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT NOT ON THE

11:06:39 BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, WE THE PEOPLE, BUT ON BEHALF OF

11:06:42 SPECIAL INTERESTS AND SPECIAL AGENDA GROUPS, THAT IN

11:06:47 REALITY HAVE SPECIFIC MOTIVES, INCLUDING DEFUNDING THE

11:06:55 POLICE FOR THEIR SPECIFIC FORMATION.

11:07:03 SO PLEASE ENSURE THAT YOU DO NOT CREATE AN UNNECESSARY

11:07:09 AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL CITIZENS BOARD UNDER ANY KIND OF

11:07:15 GUISE OR ANY KIND OF GROUP, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP, AS

11:07:22 THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT IT'S A DISSERVICE TO THE

11:07:25 CITIZENS OF THIS STATE.

11:07:29 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING

11:07:33 AND FOR INVESTIGATING THIS ISSUE AT LENGTH LIKE YOU HAVE

11:07:37 DONE.

11:07:38 AND MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY AND THE CITIZENS IS PLACED

11:07:44 FIRST AND FOREMOST AND NOT ANY OUTSIDERS WITH SPECIAL

11:07:47 AGENDA THAT WANT TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE STATE.

11:07:52 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:07:53 AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU GUYS ARE DOING AND

11:07:59 PLEASE TAKE YOUR TIME TO RESEARCH THIS RULING BY THE

11:08:07 SUPREME COURT IN 2017, AND THIS WOULD BE AN

11:08:18 UNCONSTITUTIONAL CITIZENS BOARD.

11:08:21 THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR THE WORK YOU GUYS ARE

11:08:25 DOING.




11:08:25 I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

11:08:26 >> GOOD MORNING.

11:08:30 THIS IS NORMA RENO. I'M CALLING BECAUSE I WANT TO PLEASE

11:08:37 ASK YOU TO VOTE NO FOR THE CREATION OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL

11:08:42 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD, WHICH IS GOING TO BE LED BUILT

11:08:48 ACLU.

11:08:49 PLEASE VOTE NO.

11:08:50 THIS IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL AND IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.

11:08:53 THANK YOU.

11:08:53 >> MY NAME IS ROSE MARIE GARCIA GETTING AND I LIVE AT

11:08:58 4107 WEST DALE AVENUE, TAMPA, FLORIDA 33609, AND I AM

11:09:03 CALLING TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THE CHANGES BEING PROPOSED

11:09:06 BY SIDEWALK STOMPERS AND WALK/BIKE TAMPA, THE

11:09:11 NEIGHBORHOOD DOES NOT HAVE CONSISTENT SIDEWALKS, AND WITH

11:09:14 TWO SMALL CHILDREN, THIS IS REALLY A DANGER FOR US AS WE

11:09:18 ARE TRYING TO GET AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAVING TO WALK

11:09:20 ON THE STREETS IN MANY PORTIONS, AND THE SPEED LIMIT

11:09:24 BEING 25 MILES PER HOUR, CARS ARE GOING BY US AT A VERY

11:09:28 FAST PACE, AND IT REALLY SADDENS ME THAT WE CAN'T ENJOY

11:09:32 THE BEAUTIFUL WEATHER IN A SAFE MANNER, AND THERE ARE NO

11:09:36 PARKS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF MY HOME EITHER.

11:09:39 SO WE WOULD LIKE TO BE SEE A SAFE BIKING DISTANCE DUE TO

11:09:45 THE SIDEWALK ISSUE, I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE

11:09:48 SIDEWALK STOMPERS AND WALK/BIKE TAMPA PROPOSAL.

11:09:51 THANK YOU.




11:09:52 >> HELLO.

11:09:56 I'M CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE FERNANDEZ FAMILY.

11:09:58 WE LIVE IN TAMPA, FLORIDA, AND WE ARE AGAINST THE

11:10:05 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE POLICE.

11:10:08 THAT IS TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

11:10:12 AND NO GROUP OF CITIZENS SELECTED BY ANY ORGANIZATION OR

11:10:16 BY ANYONE SHOULD BE MEDDLING WITH GOVERNMENT OF WE THE

11:10:21 PEOPLE.

11:10:21 WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE SEPARATION OF POWER FOR THE

11:10:24 PROTECTION OF ITS CITIZENS.

11:10:26 WE DO NOT NEED A SELECT GROUP OF CITIZENS REVIEWING

11:10:30 GOVERNMENT.

11:10:31 IT'S TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

11:10:36 DO NOT APPROVE IT.

11:10:39 BECAUSE IT WOULD BE AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAW THAT WOULD BE

11:10:44 IMMEDIATELY APPEALED.

11:10:45 >> THIS IS STEVEN PEREZ.

11:10:50 I LIVE AT 6449 SOUTH 12th STREET, TOWERS OF

11:10:55 CHANNELSIDE.

11:10:56 I HAVE HAD THE MISFORTUNE OF LIVING DIRECTLY ABOVE PARK &

11:10:59 REC FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN OPEN.

11:11:01 I LIVED HERE FOR FIVE YEARS, THE NOISE IS PARTICULARLY

11:11:04 BAD EVERY WEEKEND BEGINNING ON THURSDAY AND GOING THROUGH

11:11:07 SUNDAY EVENING.

11:11:09 IT STARTS AROUND 5 OR 6 P.M. WITH THUMPING OF BASS.




11:11:15 A DJ SHOT THROUGH THEIR AMPLIFIED SOUND SYSTEM, THIS WOKE

11:11:19 ME AT 12:30 A.M. ON SUNDAY MORNING AND CONTINUED FOR

11:11:24 QUITE SOME TIME.

11:11:25 I DID EVENTUALLY CALL THE TAMPA POLICE NONEMERGENCY LINE

11:11:28 TO FILE A COMPLAINT.

11:11:30 IN THE PAST, WE HAD TO DEAL WITH SIMILAR DISTURBANCES

11:11:33 FROM ASIA AND -- LIVES.

11:11:38 BOTH THESE ESTABLISHMENTS CLOSED AND THE HOPE WAS THE

11:11:40 REPLACEMENTS WOULD BE MORE SUITABLE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL

11:11:43 AREA.

11:11:44 I HAVE TAKEN MANY ACTIONS TO REDUCE THE IMPACT ON MY HOME

11:11:50 AS I HAVE INSTALLED NOISE CANCELING DEVICES AND LEFT THE

11:11:53 TV ON TO SLEEP.

11:11:55 THIS IS NOT AN IDEAL WAY TO LIVE.

11:11:57 I REALIZE THAT SOME OF US CONSIDER THIS AREA AN

11:12:00 ENTERTAINMENT AREA.

11:12:01 WE HAVE SPARKMAN'S WHARF AND STARSHIP THAT BOTH HAVE

11:12:05 MUSIC.

11:12:07 SPARKMAN'S TYPICALLY CLOSES AROUND 11 P.M. ON FRIDAYS AND

11:12:11 SATURDAYS.

11:12:12 SINCE PARK & REC IS OPEN TILL 3 P.M., IT HAS MORE CROWDS

11:12:16 THAN THE PARK & REC.

11:12:17 THE STARSHIP STOPS PLAYING MUSIC.

11:12:21 AND I ASK COUNCIL PUT MEASURES IN PLACE THAT ARE

11:12:24 REASONABLE AND SHOWS THE ABILITY FOR CHANNELSIDE FOR




11:12:29 RESIDENTS AND HOME OWNERS TO LIVE IN PEACE.

11:12:32 I WOULD ASK FOR THE OUR BUILDING MANAGEMENT TO HAVE PARK

11:12:37 & REC ABIDE BY THE SAME RULING AS 200 PLUS RESIDENTS IN

11:12:42 OUR TWO BUILDINGS.

11:12:43 THE BUILDING MANAGEMENT CAN ADDRESS NOISE GENERATED BY

11:12:46 ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS EXCEPT PARK & REC.

11:12:52 MY ONLY RELIEF IS TO GO AWAY FOR A WEEKEND.

11:12:55 THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE AND STARTING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE

11:12:58 IMPACT ON MY HOUSE.

11:12:59 AND I WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO HAVE SOMETHING DONE TO TAKE

11:13:01 CARE OF IT.

11:13:02 THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

11:13:03 >> THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THE COUNCILMEN AND COUNCILWOMEN OF

11:13:15 THE CITY OF TAMPA REGARDING THE ISSUE OF CREATION OF A

11:13:20 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

11:13:25 AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, I LIVE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA,

11:13:29 AND I WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE THE CREATION OF THE CITIZENS

11:13:36 BOARD DUE TO ITS UNCONSTITUTIONALITY, AND TO THE MANY

11:13:44 CONFLICTS THAT IT PRESENTS TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND

11:13:47 TO THE CITIZENS LOCALLY THAT IT SERVES.

11:13:52 AS A CREATION OF ANOTHER REVIEW BOARD, IT'S NOT ONLY

11:14:01 QUESTIONABLE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT IT ACTUALLY

11:14:09 DEFIES -- THE INTEREST OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS ITS

11:14:19 OWN ESTABLISHED CHAIN OF COMMAND AND EMPLOYEE REVIEW

11:14:29 DEPARTMENT TO DO ANOTHER OUTSIDE GROUP IT'S ONLY GOING TO




11:14:40 PRESENT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, AND THIS PARTICULAR GROUP

11:14:47 WITH A PARTICULAR AGENDA WILL NOT SERVE THE BENEFIT OF

11:14:54 THE LOCAL CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF TAMPA AND THE STATE OF

11:14:57 FLORIDA.

11:15:00 THE CREATION OF SUCH A BOARD IN ADDITION BYPASSES

11:15:05 LEGISLATION THAT FURTHER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, AND IT

11:15:08 IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

11:15:11 IN ADDITION TO VIOLATING THE BILL OF RIGHTS OF THE POLICE

11:15:16 OFFICERS THEMSELVES.

11:15:19 SO THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROBLEMS IN THE CREATION

11:15:25 OF SUCH CITIZENS BOARD, NUMEROUS PROBLEMS, AND I

11:15:32 ENCOURAGE YOU AS MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL TO DO

11:15:35 EXTENSIVE RESEARCH AND LOOK AT THE UNCONSTITUTIONALITY OF

11:15:42 THIS IDEA AND THE CATASTROPHE THAT IT WILL HAVE IN THE

11:15:53 LOCAL COMMUNITY.

11:15:54 THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR THE WORK YOU

11:15:58 GUYS ARE DOING.

11:15:59 IT'S MUCH APPRECIATED.

11:16:01 AND PLEASE SAY NO TO THE CREATION OF A SPECIAL INTEREST

11:16:07 AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL ...

11:16:11 >> MY NAME IS ARMANDO JONEZ AND I LIVE AT 9728 NORTH

11:16:19 ARMENIA AVENUE, TAMPA, FLORIDA.

11:16:24 THE REASON FOR THIS MESSAGE IS I AM AGAINST AND NOT IN

11:16:29 FAVOR OF ANY OTHER OVERSIGHT OVER THE POLICE OTHER THAN

11:16:34 THE ONE THAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.




11:16:35 THEREFORE, I'M ASKING THE COUNCIL TO REJECT THE IDEA OF

11:16:41 TRYING TO SET UP ANOTHER OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE.

11:16:47 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:16:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THOSE ARE ALL THE RECORDED COMMENTS?

11:17:03 I BELIEVE THEY ARE.

11:17:05 OKAY.

11:17:06 ALL RIGHT.

11:17:07 THAT CONCLUDE PUBLIC COMMENT.

11:17:08 BEFORE WE CONTINUE, WOULD ANYBODY LIKE A FIVE-MINUTE

11:17:10 RECESS?

11:17:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I MAY --

11:17:15 >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR.

11:17:16 I WOULD LOVE ONE, BUT I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS AFT GOT

11:17:20 STRUCK DOWN.

11:17:21 SO I WILL BE MAKING SOME MOTIONS ON IT.

11:17:26 4 TO 1.

11:17:27 $300 MILLION GONE FOR THE YEAR.

11:17:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF YOU CAN FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE

11:17:36 PUBLIC, AFT?

11:17:37 >>LUIS VIERA: I'M SORRY.

11:17:40 PENNY SALES TAX PASSED IN NOVEMBER OF 2018 BY ALMOST 60%

11:17:43 OF VOTERS WAS STRUCK DOWN BY THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT 4

11:17:46 TO 1.

11:17:47 SO MS. ZELMAN, IT LOOKS LIKE OUR ISSUE IS MOOT, ISN'T IT?

11:17:51 UNFORTUNATELY.




11:17:53 BUT I WILL BE MAKING SOME MOTIONS ON IT BECAUSE WE HAVE

11:17:57 GOT TO GET THAT TAX BACK IN 2022.

11:18:01 THAT'S TERRIBLE.

11:18:02 >>JOSEPH CITRO: WITHOUT A DOUBT.

11:18:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

11:18:05 FIVE-MINUTE RECESS.

11:18:06 [RECESS]

11:18:07

11:18:08 (ROLL CALL)

11:29:15 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD.

11:29:17 I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE PRESENTING FROM THE LEGAL

11:29:19 DEPARTMENT.

11:29:19 IF YOU ARE ON THE LINE.

11:29:24 >>GINA GRIMES: CITY ATTORNEY.

11:29:25 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, MA'AM.

11:29:26 BEFORE YOU BEGIN, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK FOR YOUR

11:29:29 PRESENTATION?

11:29:33 >>GINA GRIMES: WE CAN FINISH OUR PRESENTATION IN ABOUT 15

11:29:35 MINUTES.

11:29:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: OKAY.

11:29:36 MY THOUGHTS ARE THAT YOU DO YOUR PRESENTATION, AND AFTER

11:29:42 THE PRESENTATION IS COMPLETED THAT COUNCIL BREAKS FOR

11:29:45 LUNCH, WE COME BACK, DEPENDING ON THE TIME, 1:00 OR 1:15,

11:29:52 AND WE COME BACK, YOU KNOW, WITH CLEAR HEAD AND WE

11:29:56 CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THERE, AND MOVE ON.




11:29:59 IS THERE ANY OBJECTION FROM COUNCIL?

11:30:01 YES, SIR?

11:30:04 >>LUIS VIERA: I DON'T HAVE AN OBJECTION.

11:30:05 I KNOW FOLKS HAVE GOT TO EAT, ET CETERA.

11:30:07 BUT JUST THE SOONER THE BETTER.

11:30:10 I HAVE GOT SOME ISSUES COMING UP AROUND 3.

11:30:13 IT MAY NOT RUN TILL 3 BUT YOU NEVER KNOW.

11:30:16 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: OKAY.

11:30:17 >>GINA GRIMES: MR. CHAIRMAN, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF

11:30:20 QUESTIONS, WE MAY BE ABLE TO WRAP IT ALL UP, YOU KNOW.

11:30:24 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: LET'S PLAY IT BY EAR BUT WE'LL LOOK

11:30:28 AT BREAKING FOR LUNCH.

11:30:30 GO AHEAD, MA'AM.

11:30:30 >>GINA GRIMES: SO CAN I HAVE THE PowerPoint BROUGHT

11:30:34 UP?

11:30:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

11:30:36 COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

11:30:37 >>BILL CARLSON: IF I COULD JUST FOR A SECOND.

11:30:39 THERE'S A LOT OF MISINFORMATION ABOUT THIS AND I WANT TO

11:30:43 SET THE STRAIGHT AND YOU CAN WEIGH IN.

11:30:45 THIS IS NOT A NEW COMMITTEE.

11:30:47 IT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE ABOUT 2016.

11:30:51 THE WAY IT WAS CREATED WITHOUT GOING INTO DETAIL WAS NOT

11:30:57 SATISFACTORY TO THE PUBLIC, AND SO AS WE HAVE BEEN TRYING

11:31:02 TO MAKE CHANGES IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO, WE




11:31:07 HAVE IN PARTICULAR LOOKED AT THIS, I THINK COUNCILMAN

11:31:10 GUDES BROUGHT THIS ISSUE UP.

11:31:12 THIS DISCUSSION I THINK IS THE THIRD DISCUSSION WE HAVE

11:31:15 HAD ON THIS.

11:31:16 AND IT STARTED WITH US HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT CHANGING

11:31:20 IT AND THEN THE MAYOR CAME UP WITH HER PROPOSAL, THE

11:31:22 MAYOR THEN GRACIOUSLY AGREED TO LISTEN TO MORE INPUT FROM

11:31:25 THE PUBLIC AND FROM US, AND WE EDITED IT AGAIN, AND THIS

11:31:29 IS THE THIRD ROUND WHERE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR HAVE BOTH

11:31:32 BEEN LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC.

11:31:33 THERE'S A NOT A MAYOR'S PROPOSAL AND COUNCIL PROPOSAL,

11:31:36 IT'S ALSO NOT A NEW COMMITTEE.

11:31:38 IF IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED

11:31:41 IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

11:31:43 SO THIS IS A CONVERSATION WITH THE MAYOR AND WE HAVE BEEN

11:31:47 HAVING WITH THE PUBLIC, AND IN THE LAST ROUND, I THINK I

11:31:49 WAS THE ONE THAT DELAYED THE LAST DISCUSSION, BUT ACLU,

11:31:54 PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND PBA WERE BOTH UNHAPPY BUT

11:31:58 PEOPLE STOOD UP AND SAID FOR THE MORT PAST THEY ARE

11:32:02 HAPPY.

11:32:03 THERE ARE SOME TWEAKS BUT THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THESE

11:32:05 CONVERSATIONS IS SO THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL COULD WORK

11:32:07 TOGETHER TO GET SOMETHING THAT WAS BETTER FOR THE

11:32:09 COMMUNITY.

11:32:10 AND AGAIN IT'S JUST EDITING SOMETHING THAT ALREADY




11:32:13 EXISTS.

11:32:13 THANK YOU.

11:32:18 >>GINA GRIMES: CAN I HAVE THE FOURTH BROUGHT UP?

11:32:20 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, MA'AM.

11:32:21 BRING UP THE PowerPoint.

11:32:23 AND BEGIN.

11:32:23 >>GINA GRIMES: NEXT SLIDE.

11:32:29 NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

11:32:39 AS YOU CAN SEE THE LAST TIME THIS AGENDA ITEM, THE CRB,

11:32:43 REVISIONS WERE DISCUSSED WAS BACK IN NOVEMBER.

11:32:47 AND IN NOVEMBER, WE ACTUALLY DID HAVE A WORKSHOP WHERE WE

11:32:52 HAD PUBLIC COMMENT BUT IT WAS CONTINUED TO MAKE SOME

11:32:55 MODIFICATIONS.

11:32:56 BUT THE LAST CONTINUE MOTION THAT YOU MADE WAS BACK IN

11:33:01 SEPTEMBER.

11:33:01 AND IN IS SEPTEMBER WHAT YOU ASKED WAS THAT THE COMMENTS

11:33:07 FROM THE PBA, ACLU, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, ALL BE

11:33:12 CONSIDERED, AND FOR A NEW DRAFT TO BE DEVELOPED.

11:33:16 AND WE DID THAT AND WE SUBMITTED IT PRIOR TO THE NOVEMBER

11:33:22 19th PUBLIC HEARING.

11:33:23 ON NOVEMBER 19th, AND DISCUSSIONS, INDIVIDUAL

11:33:26 DISCUSSION WAS VARIOUS COUNCIL MEMBERS, SONG ADDITIONAL

11:33:29 REVISIONS WERE REQUESTED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES AND

11:33:32 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, AND SO THOSE REVISIONS WERE ALSO

11:33:37 MADE, AND THEY ARE CONTAINED IN THE CURRENT DRAFT THAT




11:33:40 YOU ARE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.

11:33:43 AND SO IF YOU TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT THE RED LINE THAT WAS

11:33:47 INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKAGE OF MATERIAL, YOU WILL QUICKLY

11:33:51 SEE THAT ALL OF THESE CHANGES AMOUNT TO A REWRITE OF THE

11:34:00 CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD ORDINANCE.

11:34:02 WE HAVE MADE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES.

11:34:05 AND ALSO, WE HAVE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS FROM THE DRAFT

11:34:10 THAT WAS ADOPTED BACK IN 2015.

11:34:13 AND TODAY IN LISTENING TO ALL THE SPEAKERS, IT'S

11:34:17 UNFORTUNATE THAT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM FOCUSED

11:34:21 ON WHAT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE AS OPPOSED TO WHAT IS IN

11:34:26 THE ORDINANCE, AND TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMAN CARLSON, WE

11:34:30 HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THE SUBSTANCE OF THESE CHANGES.

11:34:36 THIS WILL BE NOW THE FOURTH PUBLIC HEARING.

11:34:39 WE HAVE PROBABLY SPENT MORE THAN CLOSE TO 30 HOURS IN

11:34:43 DISCUSSIONS, AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE ANY OF THE OFFLINE

11:34:46 DISCUSSIONS THAT ALL OF YOU HAD WITH US, AND WITH THE

11:34:49 ACLU, AND WITH THE PBA, AND THAT WE ALL HAD WITH EACH

11:34:54 OTHER.

11:34:54 AND IN MY VIEW, THE CITY AND EVERYONE INVOLVED INCLUDING

11:34:59 THE PBA AND THE ACLU SHOULD BE CONGRATULATED FOR HOW FAR

11:35:05 WE HAVE MOVED THE NEEDLE FROM THE WAY THIS ORDINANCE

11:35:09 CURRENTLY EXISTS AS IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2015.

11:35:15 AND SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY IS A VERY

11:35:18 BALANCED PROPOSAL.




11:35:20 IT'S NOT BIASED TOWARDS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND NOT BIASED

11:35:25 AGAINST LAW ENFORCEMENT.

11:35:27 IT'S A VAST IMPROVEMENT OVER THE EXISTING CODE, AND THE

11:35:31 REASON WHY IS IT SUBSTANTIALLY EXPANDS THE POWERS OF THE

11:35:36 CRB.

11:35:38 THERE WERE A COUPLE OF CHANGES THAT WERE MADE, NOT ONE

11:35:41 SINGLE SPEAKER EVEN MENTIONED, AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE

11:35:44 A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.

11:35:46 AND ONE OF THOSE CHANGES IS A CHANGE THAT WAS BY

11:35:50 COUNCILMAN GUDES, AND THAT IS WITH THE HIRING PROCESS AT

11:35:53 TPD.

11:35:55 CHIEF DUGAN WHO IS HERE THIS MORNING PRESENTED THE

11:35:58 CONCEPT OF CREATING AN INTERVIEW PANEL FOR THE POLICE

11:36:03 DEPARTMENT, AND HE AGREED THAT HE WOULD BE WILLING TO

11:36:10 ALLOW ONE OF THE CRB MEMBERS TO ROTATE IN AND OFF THAT

11:36:13 PANEL.

11:36:14 AND WITH THAT CHANGE, COUNCILMAN GUDES, ALSO PRESSED FOR

11:36:18 ADDITIONAL CHANGES DEALING WITH THE DIVERSITY OF THE

11:36:21 HIRING PANEL AS WELL AS THE DIVERSITY OF THE DEPARTMENT.

11:36:24 SO THOSE ARE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THAT WERE MADE, AND WILL

11:36:31 HAVE A TREMENDOUS EFFECT ON THE CULTURE AT THE POLICE

11:36:35 DEPARTMENT.

11:36:36 AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER CHANGE THAT WAS MADE, AND

11:36:38 ACTUALLY ONE THAT WAS SUGGESTED BY THE MAYOR, AND THAT'S

11:36:42 A COMPLAINT TRACKING PROCESS SO THAT GOING FORWARD, EVERY




11:36:47 COMPLAINT, EVERY COMPLAINT THAT COMES IN TO TPD, AND THE

11:36:52 MONITORING TRACKS BY THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD, WILL GET

11:36:57 A REPORT ON THE INDIVIDUAL COMPLAINTS.

11:36:59 SO TWO SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.

11:37:01 THOSE TWO CHANGES HAPPEN TO BE CHANGES THAT NOT ONE OTHER

11:37:06 CRB IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF FLORIDA HAS IN THEIR

11:37:09 ORDINANCE.

11:37:09 SO WE ARE VERY PROGRESSIVE AS FAR AS THAT IS CONCERNED,

11:37:14 AND AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE

11:37:17 MADE.

11:37:18 AND WITH THAT I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO CHIEF

11:37:20 ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY URSULA RICHARDSON WHO HAS WORKED

11:37:24 WITH US THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS, AND SHE IS GOING

11:37:28 TO GO UP THROUGH THOSE CHANGES WITH YOU, AND THEN I WILL

11:37:34 WRAP UP BY DISCUSSING IMPLEMENTATION.

11:37:45 >> URSULA RICAHRDSON: GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.

11:37:46 >> GOOD MORNING.

11:37:48 GO AHEAD.

11:37:48 >> I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY IN

11:37:50 OUR ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW.

11:37:52 THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD LOOKS AT -- PLEASE GO TO THE

11:37:59 NEXT SLIDE.

11:38:01 YES.

11:38:02 AND SO ON THE SCREEN YOU CAN SEE THE PowerPoint THAT

11:38:04 TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE EXISTING DUTIES OF THE CRB ARE, AND




11:38:08 THEN WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IN THE DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT IS

11:38:11 BEFORE YOU TODAY.

11:38:14 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE IS BEFORE,

11:38:17 WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE IS THAT THEY REVIEW CLOSED TPD

11:38:23 INVESTIGATIONS THAT ONLY DEAL WITH USE OF FORCE, AND IN

11:38:26 THOSE REVIEWS, THOSE REVIEWS ARE OUR CASES THAT WHERE

11:38:30 DISCIPLINE WAS IMPOSED AND DISCIPLINE WAS NOT IMPOSED.

11:38:34 THAT PORTION OF THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS NOT CHANGING IN

11:38:36 THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE, THAT SECTION OF THE

11:38:41 CURRENT ORDINANCE IS NOW CAN BE FOUND AT C-5 AND G-5 IN

11:38:46 THE DRAFT PROPOSAL.

11:38:48 BUT I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE CHANGES AND SOME OF

11:38:50 THE ONES THAT MS. GRIMES JUST MENTIONED.

11:38:54 NUMBER ONE, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE EXPANDS EXPONENTIALLY

11:39:00 THE TYPE OF CASES THAT THE CRB WILL REVIEW.

11:39:03 AGAIN CURRENTLY THEY ONLY LOOK AT USE OF FORCE CASES.

11:39:06 BUT UNDER THE CURRENT OR THE DRAFT ORDINANCE, THEY WOULD

11:39:10 BE ABLE TO LOOK AT ANY NUMBER OF CASES, AND THAT WOULD

11:39:13 INCLUDE ALLEGATIONS OF SOMEONE TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE,

11:39:17 ANYONE WHO IS ACCUSED OF TURNING OFF THE BODY WORN

11:39:21 CAMERAS, SEARCH AND SEIZURES ISSUES, WHETHER OR NOT

11:39:24 THERE'S ANY SEXUAL HARASSMENT, RACIAL DISCRIMINATION,

11:39:28 FALSIFYING TIME, WELFARE FRAUD, OR EVEN STEALING EVIDENCE

11:39:33 FROM THE PROPERTY ROOM.

11:39:34 THOSE ARE ALL THE KIND OF THINGS THAT IF AN OFFICER HAS




11:39:36 BEEN SUSPENDED, DEMOTED OR TERMINATED, THOSE ARE THE KIND

11:39:40 OF CASES THAT THE CRB WOULD REVIEW.

11:39:43 AS MS. GRIMES MENTIONED, THE CRB WE NOW HAVE THE

11:39:48 OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE HIRING PROCESS AND

11:39:50 LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT

11:39:53 ALSO GIVE THE COMMUNITY AN EYE INTO OR TRANSPARENCY ABOUT

11:39:58 HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS, WHERE THEY CAN INFORM THE

11:40:02 COMMUNITY.

11:40:02 THE COMPLAINT TRACKING SYSTEM IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S

11:40:05 BEING PROPOSED, AND AGAIN IT GIVES THAT OPPORTUNITY, I

11:40:08 KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN SAID TODAY, THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE OF

11:40:13 MAYBE THINGS FALL INTO THE CRACKS OR CASES NOT BEING

11:40:16 ADEQUATELY INVESTIGATED.

11:40:19 BUT FROM THE TIME THAT A COMPLAINT WOULD COME IN, OF

11:40:21 COURSE, WITH THE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED, THE

11:40:26 CRB WILL HAVE A WINDOW, AND CRB MEANING THE PUBLIC WILL

11:40:30 HAVE A WINDOW INTO EVERY COMPLAINT THAT COMES INTO THE

11:40:32 CITY, AND TO SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR THOSE

11:40:34 INVESTIGATIONS TO BE FINALIZED, AND THEN ALSO WHAT THE

11:40:38 END RESULT IS OF THOSE PARTICULAR INVESTIGATIONS.

11:40:42 AND THERE IS NOT ANOTHER CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD OR POLICE

11:40:45 OVERSIGHT BOARD IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA THAT HAS THE

11:40:48 OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT WINDOW INTO WHAT THE POLICE

11:40:51 DEPARTMENT IS DOING.

11:40:54 ALSO, AS A PART OF THESE NEW CHANGES, THE CRB WILL BE




11:40:58 ABLE TO RECEIVE COMPLAINTS DIRECTLY FROM THE CITIZENS, OF

11:41:02 COURSE IN LINE WITH THE OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS, WE WOULD

11:41:05 PUT SAFEGUARD IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER CONFIDENTIAL

11:41:08 INFORMATION WILL BE PROTECTED, BUT IT WILL STILL HAVE THE

11:41:12 OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT AS WELL, AND ALSO CREATING A CRB

11:41:18 WEBSITE SO THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO

11:41:20 KNOW ABOUT THE CRB, HAVE INFORMATION, IN A WAY THAT

11:41:25 BASICALLY BRINGS THE CRB TO THE FOREFRONT.

11:41:32 ONE OF THE CHANGES NOT IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IFS THERE

11:41:34 IS GOING TO BE ANY CHANGE TO THE USE OF FORCE POLICIES

11:41:37 WITHIN THE CITY OF TAMPA BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE

11:41:40 CRB WOULD GET NOTIFICATION OF THAT INFORMATION, AND NOT

11:41:43 JUST BE TOLD THAT IT'S HAPPENING, BUT ALSO AN EXPLANATION

11:41:47 TO THE CRB WHICH MEANS AN EXPLANATION TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT

11:41:51 WHY SOMETHING IN THE USE OF FORCE POLICY WOULD BE

11:41:52 CHANGING.

11:41:53 AGAIN, WE FOCUS ON THE USE OF FORCE IN THIS ORDINANCE,

11:41:57 SIMPLY BECAUSE WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE CRB'S COMMUNITY

11:42:00 SURVEY THAT THEY DID IN 2018, THE USE OF FORCE ISSUES ARE

11:42:04 ONE OF THE TOP FIVE ISSUES THAT THE PUBLIC WAS FOCUSED ON

11:42:09 OR FELT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE CRB TO FOCUS ON.

11:42:14 WE HAVE ALSO BUILT MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT INTO THE

11:42:17 CURRENT DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE, AND BY DIAGNOSE THAT, THE

11:42:22 CRB WOULD ACTUALLY GO INTO THE COMMUNITY AND MEET AT

11:42:25 LOCATIONS THAT WILL ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND




11:42:28 THOSE MEETINGS, BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT WE BUILT IN A

11:42:31 REQUIREMENT THAT THE CRB DO A COMMUNITY SURVEY EVERY TWO

11:42:35 YEARS SO THAT AGAIN THE PUBLIC IS ALWAYS GIVING

11:42:37 INFORMATION TO THE CRB SO THAT THE CRB KNOWS HOW TO FOCUS

11:42:42 THEIR ATTENTION AND THEIR BUSINESS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE

11:42:45 CARRYING OUT THE PUBLIC'S MISSION.

11:42:48 WE HAVE BUILT IN AT THE REQUEST OF SEVERAL PEOPLE THE

11:42:52 FACT THAT THE LEGAL COUNCIL FOR THE CRB NO LONGER BE THE

11:42:58 TPD LEGAL ADVISER AND THAT WILL BE A NEUTRAL ASSISTANT

11:43:01 CITY ATTORNEY WHO IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE POLICE

11:43:04 DEPARTMENT, DOES NOT WORK WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND

11:43:07 SO THAT PERSON WILL HAVE SOME NEUTRALITY, BUT ON TOP OF

11:43:13 THAT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN BUILT INTO THE ORDINANCE THAT IS

11:43:17 A CONFLICT THAT THE PUBLIC HAS MENTION DAD OR AT LEAST

11:43:19 THE SPEAKERS AND COMMENTERS HAVE MENTIONED, IF A CONFLICT

11:43:22 WERE TO ARRIVE AND THE CRB CEASE A CONFLICT, THERE IS AN

11:43:29 OPPORTUNITY FOR A PRIVATE LAWYER TO BE RETAINED BY THE

11:43:31 CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PER THE CHARTER TO RESOLVE

11:43:33 WHATEVER THAT CONFLICT OR ISSUE IS AND GIVE IT ADVICE TO

11:43:39 CRB.

11:43:39 AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT I THINK IS BUILT INTO

11:43:42 THIS CURRENT ORDINANCE IS LIVE ANNUAL REPORTS TO THE CITY

11:43:45 COUNCIL WHICH MEANS LIVE ANNUAL REPORTS TO THE PUBLIC

11:43:50 ABOUT WHAT HAS OCCURRED WITH THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD

11:43:53 OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR.




11:43:54 IT WILL BE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO LEARN WHAT

11:43:57 THE CRB HAS ACCOMPLISHED IN A YEAR, WHAT KIND OF

11:44:01 RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE, WHAT KIND OF CHANGES HAVE

11:44:03 BEEN IMPLEMENTED BASED ON THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND BEST

11:44:06 OF ALL, IT WILL BE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WHETHER OR NOT

11:44:09 THE ORDINANCE BE MODIFIED OR TWEAKED IN A WAY THAT IT

11:44:13 WILL MEET THE MISSION OF WHAT THIS BOARD'S INTENDED

11:44:17 PURPOSE IS.

11:44:19 ULTIMATELY, I AM GLAD THAT COUNCILMAN CARLSON SPOKE UP

11:44:23 BECAUSE I KEPT HEARING PEOPLE SAY IT'S THE MAYOR'S

11:44:25 PROPOSAL, OR SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPOSAL, BY THE FACT IS,

11:44:28 THAT WE HAVE SPENT MANY HOURS HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH A

11:44:32 LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS, INCLUDING THE COUNCIL,

11:44:36 INCLUDING THE MAYOR, INCLUDING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE

11:44:40 PBA, ACLU, THE MEMBERS OF THE CURRENT CRB THEMSELVES, ALL

11:44:45 OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT TO

11:44:48 BASICALLY CRAFT A PRODUCT OR AN ORDINANCE THAT IS THE

11:44:52 BEST FIT FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA.

11:44:53 SO THE MISSION WAS NOT TO MAKE THIS SOMETHING THAT WILL

11:44:57 WORK FOR MINNEAPOLIS, THE MISSION WAS NOT TO MAKE IT

11:45:00 SOMETHING THAT WILL WORK FOR MIAMI, AND 9 WHATS NOT A

11:45:02 MISSION TO MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT WILL WORK FOR FERGUSON,

11:45:05 BUT TO WORK FOR WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA,

11:45:10 AND AS MS. GRIMES SAID, IN DOING THAT, WE HAVE IN FACT

11:45:15 PRODUCED SOMETHING THAT WE BELIEVE IS BALANCED TO ALL OF




11:45:20 THOSE INTERESTS.

11:45:20 AND THOSE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE ADDITIONAL CHANGES

11:45:23 THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO THE CURRENT CRB ORDINANCE.

11:45:27 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

11:45:32 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:45:34 DOES THAT CONCLUDE OR DO YOU HAVE MORE?

11:45:37 >>GINA GRIMES: ONE MORE SLIDE.

11:45:38 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD.

11:45:39 >>GINA GRIMES: NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

11:45:41 AND SO WHAT WE ARE -- I'M SORRY, ONE MORE SLIDE PAST THAT

11:45:48 ONE.

11:45:48 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: OKAY.

11:45:51 >>GINA GRIMES: WHERE WE ARE NOW IS HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD

11:45:53 FROM HERE?

11:45:56 THERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS THAT I THINK ARE IMPORTANT TO

11:45:58 DISCUSS WITH YOU.

11:46:00 THE REVISE CRB ORDINANCE IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO

11:46:03 IMPLEMENT, AND WE ARE PROPOSING AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF

11:46:09 APPROXIMATELY SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.

11:46:11 WE WILL ALSO HAVE TO DEVELOP A SCHEDULE FOR APPOINTMENT

11:46:14 OF THE ADDITIONAL MEMBERS TO THE CRB.

11:46:19 THOSE WILL BE COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.

11:46:21 WE HAVE TO SCHEDULE THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS, IDENTIFY

11:46:24 THEIR LOCATIONS.

11:46:25 ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT HAS TO BE DONE IS




11:46:28 DEVELOPING THE TRAINING CURRICULUM FOR THE FIRST YEAR

11:46:31 WITH THE CRB MEMBERS WILL NEED TO BE EDUCATED AS TO THE

11:46:34 HIRING PROCESS, TPD DISCIPLINE PROCESS, AND ANY NEW

11:46:39 STANDARD SEPARATE OPERATING PROCEDURES THAT MIGHT BE

11:46:42 PROPOSED AND HOW OUR SOPs ARE DRAFTED AND DEVELOPED AND

11:46:47 REVIEWED AND MONITORED.

11:46:50 ANOTHER CHANGE WITH THE INTERVIEW PANEL, THAT WILL HAVE

11:46:55 TO BE ESTABLISHED, AND THEN THE CRB THEMSELVES WILL HAVE

11:46:58 TO AGREE UPON SOME SORT OF ROTATION SYSTEM SO THAT EACH

11:47:01 OF THEM GETS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERVIEW PROCESS.

11:47:05 ANOTHER ITEM THAT WILL TAKE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF TIME

11:47:09 TO IMPLEMENT IS THE ESTABLISHING THE MONTHLY COMPLAINT

11:47:12 REPORTING AND TRACKING SYSTEM.

11:47:15 THAT WILL HAVE TO BE INTERNAL TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

11:47:17 I WILL HAVE TO WORK CLOSELY WITH THEM ON ESTABLISHING

11:47:21 THAT REPORTING SYSTEM.

11:47:23 AND THEN ALSO THERE'S THE INTAKE OF THE COMPLAINTS FILED

11:47:26 DIRECTLY WITH THE CRB.

11:47:28 WE'LL HAVE TO ENSURE THAT ANY COMPLAINTS THAT ARE FILED

11:47:30 WITH THEM ARE IMMEDIATELY TRANSFERRED TO TPD SO THAT THEY

11:47:34 CAN WORK THEIR WAY THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

11:47:37 AND THE LAST ITEM IS CREATING THE CRB WEBSITE TO MAKE THE

11:47:42 CRB MORE TRANSPARENT, MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE CRB

11:47:47 AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, AND PUBLISHING LINKS AND

11:47:50 VARIOUS DIFFERENT PLACES SO IT'S EASY TO FIND.




11:47:54 SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY AND

11:47:59 DUTIES THAT WE ARE PLACING ON THE CRB, BECAUSE OF THAT

11:48:04 THERE'S A LOT OF TRAINING THAT'S GOING TO BE REQUIRED.

11:48:09 AS YOU KNOW, THESE ARE VOLUNTEERS WHO WORK ALL DAY AND

11:48:13 COME TO MEETINGS THAT START AT 6:00 AT NIGHT, AND THEY

11:48:16 HAVE TO GO TO WORK THE NEXT DAY, AND LIKE COUNCIL MEMBERS

11:48:19 THEMSELVES KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE LATE NIGHT MEETINGS,

11:48:22 IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE EACH MATTER THE

11:48:27 ATTENTION THAT IT DESERVES.

11:48:29 SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR COUNCIL IN CONSIDERING

11:48:34 THESE CHANGES BEING CONSIDERED, THE RESPONSIBILITIES THEY

11:48:37 ARE PLACING ON THIS LAY BOARD AND THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT

11:48:42 THEY ARE EXPECTING THIS LAY BOARD TO DO.

11:48:43 I THINK WHAT WE PROPOSED SO FAR IS SIGNIFICANT, AND WHAT

11:48:48 WE ARE SUGGESTING IS GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO IMPLEMENT

11:48:52 THESE CHANGES.

11:48:55 AS MS. RICHARDSON MENTIONED EVERY YEAR WE WILL HAVE

11:49:01 BASICALLY AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE CRB AS THEY ARE

11:49:03 REQUIRED TO APPEAR IN PERSON AND PRESENT THEIR ANNUAL

11:49:07 REPORT.

11:49:08 SO AS WE MOVE FORWARD, IF YOU FIND ANY ADDITIONAL CHANGES

11:49:14 ABOVE AND BEYOND THOSE THAT WE HAVE ALREADY PROPOSED, IF

11:49:16 WE FIND ANY ADDITIONAL CHANGES ARE NECESSARY, YOU WILL

11:49:19 HAVE A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY ONCE A YEAR TO HEAR ABOUT

11:49:23 ANY CONCERNS, AND TO MAKE ANY NECESSARY CHANGES IF




11:49:28 APPROPRIATE.

11:49:29 SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO CLOSE BY SAYING AT THIS STAGE,

11:49:33 GIVEN THE BREADTH OF CHANGES AND THE EXTENT OF TRAINING

11:49:38 THAT'S GOING TO BE REQUIRED, WE ARE REQUESTING AND

11:49:41 RECOMMENDING THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS CURRENT

11:49:44 DRAFT, AND THAT IT BE SCHEDULED FOR FIRST READING AND

11:49:51 DISCUSSING IT WITH MR. SHELBY, AND SCHEDULED FOR FIRST

11:49:56 READING IN COUNCIL IS SO INCLINED WOULD BE MARCH

11:49:59 18th, AND SO WITH THAT, WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR YOUR

11:50:03 SUPPORT AND TO MOVE FORWARD WITH FIRST READING ON THE

11:50:08 18th OF MARCH.

11:50:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

11:50:13 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

11:50:15 DID YOU HAVE YOUR HAND UP?

11:50:16 COUNCILMAN CARLSON, COUNCILMAN GUDES, COUNCILMAN VIERA.

11:50:24 LET'S BREAK NOW FOR LUNCH, COME BACK AT 1:00.

11:50:27 AND THEN WE'LL TAKE THE QUESTIONS AND GO FROM THERE.

11:50:30 ALL RIGHT.

11:50:31 WE ARE IN RECESS UNTIL 1:00.

11:50:34 (CITY COUNCIL RECESS)

11:59:21

01:01:59 [SOUNDING GAVEL]

01:02:00 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WELCOME BACK TO TAMPA CITY COUNCIL.

01:02:03 WORKSHOP.

01:02:04 ROLL CALL, PLEASE.




01:02:05 >>LUIS VIERA: HERE.

01:02:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.

01:02:11 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.

01:02:15 >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.

01:02:20 >>THE CLERK: A PHYSICAL QUORUM.

01:02:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT.

01:02:24 BUT DID YOU GET COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER PRESENT?

01:02:28 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, WE GOT HIM RIGHT HERE ON THE

01:02:30 SCREEN.

01:02:31 AND HE WAS ON THE SCREEN BEFORE WE HIT THE GAVEL.

01:02:33 SO WE'LL GO BACK TO THE DISCUSSION ON THE CRB.

01:02:38 THE PRESENTATION WAS COMPLETED BY OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

01:02:41 COUNCIL MEMBERS, I KNOW YOU HAD QUESTIONS.

01:02:45 CARLSON, GUDES, VIERA.

01:02:47 GO AHEAD, COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

01:02:49 COUNCILMAN GUDES.

01:02:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.

01:02:56 I WAS THE PERSON WHO MADE THIS MOTION REFERENCE CRB.

01:03:00 AND SOME PUBLIC COMMENT, THOSE WHO ARE FOR, THOSE WHO ARE

01:03:05 AGAINST.

01:03:06 I LOOK AT SOME OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THE POLICE

01:03:10 DEPARTMENT IS RUN, OVERPOLICE, CONSTITUTION, AND WHEN I

01:03:13 LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS,

01:03:16 I LOOK AT MY COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND I WOULD ASK EVERYONE,

01:03:21 DO YOU TRUST WHAT I CAN TELL YOU THAT I KNOW FROM MY




01:03:23 EXPERIENCE AND MY EXPERTISE.

01:03:26 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I WOULD SAY YES, 26 YEARS OF

01:03:29 SERVICE, CORRECT, SIR?

01:03:30 FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

01:03:32 >> I SAY YES AND WE GIVE YOU GREAT DEFERENCE.

01:03:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES: ON THAT NOTE BEING TELL YOU HOW THINGS

01:03:40 TRULY ARE, AND THE PUBLIC THEREFORE CAN UNDERSTAND, THAT

01:03:46 THE POLICE ARE IN A VERY DIFFICULT BUSINESS.

01:03:49 AND I AM MR. VIERA HAS AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT HE HAS

01:03:55 CHAMPIONED OR NOT CHAMPIONED.

01:03:58 I AM GOING TO GIVE A LITTLE RENDITION OF THE POLICE

01:04:00 DEPARTMENT SO PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND.

01:04:02 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS A PARAMILITARY ORGANIZATION.

01:04:07 POLICE OFFICERS FOLLOW ORDERS.

01:04:10 WHETHER THEY LIKE THE ORDERS THAT HAVE BEEN HANDED DOWN

01:04:12 OR NOT, THEY DO A JOB, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.

01:04:17 HAVE BEEN SEVERAL ORDERS BY SEVERAL POLICE CHIEFS, AND

01:04:20 COMMANDERS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE, AND I EXPRESSED MY

01:04:22 OPINION.

01:04:25 BUT COUNCIL THIS ISN'T ABOUT COUNCILMAN GUDES LIKES THE

01:04:29 POLICE DEPARTMENT, SOMETIMES DOESN'T LIKE POLICIES THAT

01:04:33 ARE IMPLEMENTED.

01:04:35 I HAVE TO FOLLOW THOSE POLICIES.

01:04:37 WHETHER I LIKE THEM OR NOT.

01:04:40 WHEN I LOOK AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT FROM THE DAY I




01:04:43 STARTED, I LOVED IT WHEN I FIRST STARTED.

01:04:47 BUT THEN I STARTED TO SEE A SIDE SOMETIMES THAT WAS NOT

01:04:49 PLEASANT AT TIMES.

01:04:52 WHEN I FINISHED -- A GOOD FRIEND, GOOD HEART, AND THEY

01:05:00 WERE FIGHTING FOR THE TRUTH.

01:05:01 THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO.

01:05:04 UNION PRESIDENT TO FIGHT FOR ISSUES.

01:05:08 BUT I ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER TRUTHS WHO SOMETIMES FEEL

01:05:13 THAT THEY GO ON DEAF EARS.

01:05:17 I SERVED TAKES COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR FOR THE ASSOCIATION

01:05:19 OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT.

01:05:20 WE HAD THAT ASSOCIATION BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE FELT THAT

01:05:24 THERE WERE DIFFERENT BIASES AT TIMES.

01:05:30 I WOULD BE CALLED OUT, TOLD BY ATTORNEY GRIMES OF SOME OF

01:05:35 THE CONCERNS AND SOME OFFICERS TOLD ME ABOUT POLICY, WE

01:05:38 DISCUSSED THOSE THINGS.

01:05:40 BUT I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD

01:05:43 POLICE OFFICERS.

01:05:44 A LOT.

01:05:46 THAT UNDERSTAND, BORN AND RAISED IN MARGINAL COMMUNITIES,

01:05:51 AND GET IT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF CITIZENS WHO DON'T

01:05:54 UNDERSTAND, WHO ARE AROUND BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE, AND

01:06:00 THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND.

01:06:01 THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE.

01:06:04 POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES HAVE A LOT OF BIASES.




01:06:07 I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN AROUND IT.

01:06:13 THAT'S WHY I BECAME A COUNCILMAN.

01:06:14 I ALWAYS SAID, IF I EVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITIES TO SIT

01:06:17 BEFORE THE PEOPLE, BECAUSE I ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PEOPLE.

01:06:21 I HAVE A JOB TO DO DEALING WITH THE CITY POLICE

01:06:24 DEPARTMENT, BUT I REPRESENT THE PEOPLE AS A WHOLE.

01:06:29 LIKE I SAID, POLICE OFFICERS FOLLOW ORDERS.

01:06:31 THEY DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD TO DO.

01:06:37 YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU AND I WERE CAMPAIGNING, WE HAD A

01:06:41 DEBATE AT A CHURCH.

01:06:44 YOU REMEMBER THAT, SIR?

01:06:47 >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, COUNCILMAN, I REMEMBER THAT

01:06:50 WELL.

01:06:50 THAT'S ONE IN TEMPLE TERRACE.

01:06:52 AND I REMEMBER THAT WELL.

01:06:53 LET'S JUST PUT IT THAT WAY.

01:06:54 I REMEMBER THAT.

01:06:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES: WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLICE, TO BLACK

01:07:05 COMMUNITIES, GOOD CITIZENS, AFRICAN AMERICANS, THEY WANT

01:07:12 SAFETY IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

01:07:13 THEY WANT TO -- HANGING OUT ON STREET CORNERS.

01:07:23 THEY RESPECT THE POLICE.

01:07:24 BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY FEEL SOMETIMES THAT THEIR

01:07:28 BIASES WITH THE POLICE IN DEALING WITH CERTAIN SITUATIONS

01:07:31 BECAUSE OF THE CULTURE, HONESTLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE




01:07:35 CULTURE.

01:07:36 THAT'S WHERE THE BIASES COME IN.

01:07:44 TALK ABOUT HOW A PERSON IS TREATED, AND I SAY, WHAT

01:07:51 HAPPENS WHEN YOU BECOME A POLICE OFFICER?

01:07:55 YOU COME FROM A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY, AND YOU HAVE NEVER

01:07:58 BEEN IN A LOW INCOME COMMUNITY, MARGINALIZED COMMUNITY,

01:08:01 DIFFERENT CULTURES OF COMMUNITIES, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

01:08:06 AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE WAY OFFICERS TREAT A PERSON OR A

01:08:09 SHOOTING AND SO FORTH.

01:08:10 I TALKED ABOUT FEAR.

01:08:16 FEAR.

01:08:24 A SHOOTING.

01:08:25 I WANT TO COME HOME AT NIGHT.

01:08:28 THE OFFICERS WANTS TO COME HOME AT NIGHT.

01:08:31 WHEN THINGS HAPPEN, IT'S HOW YOU CHALLENGE YOUR FEAR.

01:08:33 A LOT OF TIMES IF YOU NEVER WERE AROUND BLACK

01:08:37 COMMUNITIES, BROWN PEOPLE, THERE'S A FEAR LEVEL

01:08:40 SOMETIMES.

01:08:41 PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE THAT BUT THERE IS.

01:08:44 FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN.

01:08:52 THE PERSON FROM USF WAS TALKING ABOUT ISSUES, AND KEPT

01:08:56 TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY.

01:08:59 IT STARTS INSIDE THE HOUSE.

01:09:04 CULTURE CHANGE.

01:09:05 I CAN GET ALL THESE POLICIES THAT MS. GRIMES IS TRYING TO




01:09:09 DO AND TRY TO GET IN MY COMMUNITY AND FROM THE ACLU AND

01:09:15 JUSTICE COMMITTEE, ALL THESE THINGS, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN

01:09:17 A THING IF YOU CAN'T FEEL SAFE IN THE HOUSE AND MAKE SURE

01:09:23 THAT THE HOUSE UNDERSTANDS CULTURE AND PEOPLE AND HOW TO

01:09:27 DEAL WITH CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, CULTURE.

01:09:30 I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THAT.

01:09:32 FEAR.

01:09:34 I GET A GUY RIDING MY CAR THE FIRST TIME, HE'S GOING TO

01:09:39 RIDE WITH YOU, GUDES.

01:09:41 NO PROBLEM.

01:09:41 WE DON'T GO TO THE FANCY RESTAURANTS.

01:09:44 I'M NOT DRIVING TO THAT PLACE BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE OVER

01:09:47 THERE.

01:09:52 WHY CAN'T WE GO OVER TO THE NICE RESTAURANT?

01:09:54 BECAUSE WE WORK HERE.

01:09:55 WE ARE NOT DRIVING WAY OVER THERE.

01:09:57 YOU UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE WHERE YOU WORK AT.

01:10:00 WHERE YOU WORK AT.

01:10:03 SO WHEN I LOOK AT THIS ORDINANCE, THERE'S SOME GOOD

01:10:06 THINGS IN IT.

01:10:07 I APPLAUD THE MAYOR, BECAUSE SHE'S NO TOUGH POSITION

01:10:10 RIGHT NOW BECAUSE SHE HAS TO DEAL WITH THE COMMUNITY,

01:10:12 SHE'S GOT TO DEAL WITH THE UNION, CALL THE BIG BAD UNION.

01:10:17 THE UNION CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH.

01:10:21 THE UNION HAS A JOB TO DO.




01:10:24 AND ONCE CERTAIN RULES ARE MADE, THEY ARE MADE.

01:10:28 I DON'T CARE WHAT THE UNION DOES.

01:10:32 IT IS WHAT IT IS.

01:10:33 BUT YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THE PROCESS.

01:10:35 AND I RESPECT THE PROCESS.

01:10:37 BUT I WANT THE MAYOR, CHIEF OF STAFF AND THE CHIEF, THOSE

01:10:46 TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN THERE, I KNOW

01:10:48 THE CULTURE, I UNDERSTAND THE POLICE CULTURE, I

01:10:52 UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT BIASES, I UNDERSTAND THE GOOD

01:10:58 OL' BOY SYSTEM.

01:10:59 AND WE HAVE TO ROOT OUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS INTERNALLY.

01:11:03 EVEN BEFORE WE GO OUTSIDE, BECAUSE IF I DON'T HAVE THAT

01:11:07 PHILOSOPHY INSIDE, WE GO OUTSIDE, AND WHAT GOOD IS IT TO

01:11:11 ME?

01:11:12 NONE.

01:11:13 I CAN TALK ABOUT THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITIES, TRY

01:11:15 TO FIX THAT, BUT THE INSIDE INTERNAL ISSUES, THAT'S

01:11:20 WHAT'S GOING TO REALLY MAKE THIS WORK.

01:11:25 IF WE IMPLEMENT ANY OF THIS TODAY, WE HAVE STILL GOT TO

01:11:28 FIX THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE.

01:11:31 YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD ASK THE COMMUNITIES,

01:11:42 POLICE CHIEF, MAYOR, IF THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IT, LOOK AT THE

01:11:45 MOVIE "AMERICAN SKIN."

01:11:50 LOOK AT THE MOVIE "AMERICAN SKIN."

01:11:55 AND IT PORTRAYS CULTURE, PORTRAYS BIAS, IT PORTRAYS FEAR.




01:12:03 FEAR.

01:12:07 AND WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE OUR FEARS WHEN WE ARE

01:12:10 DEALING WITH COMMUNITY.

01:12:15 DIFFERENT CULTURES.

01:12:17 I MIGHT HAVE MADE A MISTAKE YEARS AGO BUT I DIDN'T KNOW

01:12:20 WHAT I SAID WAS A BAD THING BECAUSE I HAD ALWAYS BEEN

01:12:24 TRAINED IN MY COMMUNITY, THAT WAS NORMAL TO SAY.

01:12:30 IF YOU FELT SOMEBODY WAS GETTING OVER ON YOU, IT'S A

01:12:33 CULTURAL THING TO SAY, NOT KNOWING THAT I WAS OFFENDING

01:12:38 MY OWN FRIEND BUT LUCKY HE'S A GOOD FRIEND WHO CAME TO MY

01:12:43 DEFENSE BECAUSE HE KNEW I DIDN'T KNOW, AND UNDERSTAND.

01:12:49 IT TOOK UNDERSTANDING OF CULTURE, UNDERSTANDING OF

01:12:52 COMMUNITIES, TO HAVE BETTER POLICING.

01:12:55 IT'S WHY YOU ALWAYS HEAR THEM TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY

01:12:58 POLICING.

01:12:59 BECAUSE WHILE I WAS A YOUNG GUY, WORKING AT MR.

01:13:03 SUBMARINE, IN HILLSBOROUGH, AND I SEE OFFICER DESMORE

01:13:13 COME THROUGH AND GET A STEAK SANDWICH AND I TALKED TO HIM

01:13:18 ABOUT POLICING AND HE ENCOURAGED ME TO COME ON THE FORCE,

01:13:21 YOU WOULD BE A GREAT GUY TO BE THERE.

01:13:23 OR I SEE JOHN BENNETT WORKING AT PORT DIXIE IN

01:13:28 HILLSBOROUGH, AERIAL LEWIS, ALL COME THROUGH THE HIRING

01:13:35 PROCESS, UNDERSTANDING WHERE ONE'S FEAR IS, UNDERSTANDING

01:13:40 WHERE ONE'S HEART IS.

01:13:41 AND ASKED THOSE TOUGH QUESTIONS, HAVE YOU BEEN AROUND




01:13:46 CERTAIN CULTURES, CERTAIN PEOPLE?

01:13:49 ASKING THOSE BIAS QUESTIONS.

01:13:54 HAVING ALL THOSE OFFICERS AT THE TABLE AT THE INTERVIEW

01:13:57 PROCESS, BECAUSE WHAT QUESTIONS A WHITE PERSON MAY ASK, A

01:14:00 BLACK PERSON NEVER HEARD THAT TERMINOLOGY BEFORE.

01:14:06 IT CAN AMOUNT TO HIM OR HER BEING EMPLOYED BECAUSE THEY

01:14:09 DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WORD MEANS.

01:14:13 BEING ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT MARIJUANA, BECAUSE MY

01:14:18 BROTHER MIGHT HAVE DONE SOMETHING BAD DIDN'T MEAN THAT I

01:14:20 DID IT, DOESN'T MEAN THAT I DO IT.

01:14:22 I WAS TEN YEARS OLD, 20 YEARS OLD, I SAW MY 20-YEAR-OLD

01:14:27 BROTHER DO IT.

01:14:27 AM I A BAD GUY BECAUSE MY BROTHER DID IT?

01:14:35 BIAS.

01:14:36 UNDERSTANDING CULTURE.

01:14:40 THAT'S WHAT HAS TO BE DRIVEN.

01:14:43 AND EVERYTHING WE DO IN THIS CITY, WE TALK ABOUT

01:14:45 CONTRACTS.

01:14:46 WE TALK ABOUT ANYTHING WE DO.

01:14:51 FEAR, EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION FOR EVERYONE.

01:14:56 I HEAR THE CONSTITUTION.

01:14:58 THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS IN IT.

01:15:10 SOME SAY BLACK LIVES MATTER.

01:15:11 I DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY

01:15:13 ARE TALKING ABOUT.




01:15:15 I DON'T AGREE WITH LOOTING OR BURNING BUSINESSES.

01:15:21 I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER.

01:15:23 IF MY BUSINESS WOULD HAVE BEEN BURNED I WOULD BE

01:15:25 DEVASTATED.

01:15:26 BUT I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION.

01:15:27 BUT ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT BLACK LIVES MATTER, THEY

01:15:32 NEVER TRIED TO TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT OR HURT ANYBODY.

01:15:36 THEY NEVER DID THAT.

01:15:38 THEY MIGHT HAVE SHOWED THEIR FRUSTRATION.

01:15:43 BUT YOU TALK ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION.

01:15:45 YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE STORMING THE CAPITOL AND HURTING

01:15:48 PEOPLE?

01:15:55 IT'S ALL IN THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE.

01:15:57 AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

01:16:00 IF YOU NEVER HAVE A BELIEF SYSTEM OR UNDERSTANDING OTHER

01:16:03 PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH.

01:16:09 IT'S NOT ABOUT -- IT'S NOT ABOUT TAKE THE RIGHTS OF THE

01:16:14 POLICE AWAY.

01:16:15 I LOVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

01:16:17 I THINK SOMETIMES WE DON'T DO THE RIGHT THING SOMETIMES,

01:16:21 AND WE MADE A MISTAKE.

01:16:24 THAT'S ALL RIGHT, WE CORRECT OUR MISTAKES SO THE PUBLIC

01:16:26 UNDERSTANDS THAT.

01:16:27 WE ARE GOING TO DO BETTER.

01:16:30 BUT YOU CAN'T DO BETTER UNLESS YOU HAVE THE TRAINING AND




01:16:34 SKILLS.

01:16:34 AND TALKING ABOUT THE SHOOTING.

01:16:36 I ASKED THE POLICE CHIEF, AND I MENTIONED IT TO THE STATE

01:16:42 ATTORNEY, WHY SHOT SO MANY TIMES?

01:16:46 SHOT SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE OF FEAR.

01:16:51 IT'S FEAR.

01:16:53 WE ARE TRAINED A CERTAIN WAY.

01:16:55 WE ARE TRAINED TO WHERE -- I LOOK AT THE COVER.

01:17:01 I'M FIRING, BOOM, BOOM, TWO SHOTS.

01:17:03 I'M STOPPING.

01:17:04 I'M LOOKING TO SEE WHERE IT'S COMING FROM AGAIN.

01:17:06 AND JUST SHOOTING ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE BECAUSE IN MY

01:17:15 HEART I HAVE BEEN AROUND SHOOTINGS BEFORE.

01:17:17 I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE KILLED AS A YOUNG BOY IN MY OWN FAITH

01:17:22 SO MY FEAR IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

01:17:24 WHEN I WALK UP TO A GUY OVER SOMEBODY WHO IS TALKING LOUD

01:17:30 OR STANDS UP, HE ISN'T GOING TO HURT YOU.

01:17:33 HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF.

01:17:34 BUT YOU HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT NO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND

01:17:37 HOW TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE.

01:17:41 I HAVE BEEN COACHING KIDS FOR A LONG TIME, UNDERSTAND

01:17:44 THEIR HOMES, UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY GO THROUGH.

01:17:46 I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF YOUNG KIDS ARE TAKING CARE OF THEIR

01:17:50 SELVES.

01:17:50 PEOPLE ON DRUGS OR ALCOHOL.




01:17:54 TALK ABOUT THE PERFECT PROGRAM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE

01:17:59 PERFECT PROGRAM IS.

01:17:59 WE HAVE TO FIND ONE.

01:18:01 I DON'T KNOW -- IF WE DON'T TRY SOMETHING, WE CONTINUE TO

01:18:12 FAIL.

01:18:13 I AGREE THAT SOMETIME WE HAVE A BIG ISSUE WITH MENTAL

01:18:18 HEALTH.

01:18:18 I KNOW.

01:18:19 I HAVE BEEN IN SELF INSTANCES WHERE I HAD GUYS 21 FEET.

01:18:23 DO I SHOOT HIM OR DO I SIT THERE AND TALK TO HIM TO TRY

01:18:27 TO CALM HIM DOWN?

01:18:28 HE'S 21 FEET AWAY.

01:18:33 FEAR.

01:18:35 FEAR.

01:18:36 I SAY IT ALL THE TIME.

01:18:38 YOU REMEMBER IT.

01:18:40 DEBATE ABOUT FEAR.

01:18:43 I WAS IN FEAR OF MY LIFE.

01:18:46 FEAR.

01:18:47 ABSOLUTELY.

01:18:49 I'M GOING TO SHOOT BACK.

01:18:51 I AM GOING TO GO HOME AT NIGHT, BE BLACK, GREEN, WHITE,

01:18:55 WHOEVER YOU ARE.

01:18:57 IF I HAVE TO PUT YOU DOWN I'LL PUT YOU DOWN AND I'LL

01:19:00 EXPLAIN IT LATER BUT I AM NOT GOING TO LET FEAR OVERTAKE




01:19:03 ME AND DO CRAZY THINGS.

01:19:05 I HAVE BEEN WITH OFFICERS --

01:19:10 I SAY STOP.

01:19:12 THAT'S ENOUGH.

01:19:16 ONE CHARGE WITH CAN MEAN ONE THING.

01:19:20 WHY?

01:19:20 SAME OUTCOME.

01:19:24 THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

01:19:26 BUT THERE ARE GOOD POLICE OFFICERS, GIVE BACK AND HAVE

01:19:31 DINNERS AND GIVE TO THE HOMELESS, BRING CLOTHES FROM

01:19:36 HOME, AND GIVE MONEY TO THOSE WHO NEED IT, PULL IT OUT OF

01:19:39 THEIR POCKET, CHRISTMAS GIFTS.

01:19:42 A LOT OF GOOD OFFICERS.

01:19:47 I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S OVERPOLICING.

01:19:50 THERE'S OVERPOLICING AT CERTAIN TIMES IN CERTAIN

01:19:53 COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE NEED THEM.

01:19:54 THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

01:19:55 BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE SOLUTIONS FOR THEM.

01:19:58 AND NOT BE AFRAID OF THE POLITICAL -- THAT BLACK PEOPLE

01:20:03 MIGHT GET MAD.

01:20:04 WELL, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE SAYING IN

01:20:07 THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

01:20:08 THEY WANT THE MURDERS TO STOP.

01:20:15 THAT'S WHY WE TALK ABOUT REHAB SO MUCH.

01:20:17 IF THE PLACE LOOKS GREAT, I FEEL GREAT, I LOOK GREAT.




01:20:22 BUT MY PLACE LOOKS HORRIBLE.

01:20:23 I SEE NOTHING BUT -- ALL THE TIME.

01:20:28 THAT'S HOW YOU CHANGE COMMUNITIES.

01:20:30 THAT'S HOW YOU CHANGE PEOPLE.

01:20:34 PEOPLE ARE VISUAL.

01:20:35 AND WHEN YOU ARE VISUAL, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE OF WHAT

01:20:39 YOU SEE AND HOW YOU PERCEIVE PEOPLE AND PERCEPTION.

01:20:45 PERCEPTION SOMETIMES [~DISTORTION~]

01:20:52 SO WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO DON'T SEE CHANGE OR BELIEVE

01:21:00 AND WHAT DO YOU GET?

01:21:01 YOU GET COMPLAINTS.

01:21:02 YOU GET ACTIVISTS SAYING THIS, THIS AND THAT, BE IT TRUE

01:21:06 OR NOT, THIS IS WHAT YOU HEAR.

01:21:09 SO FOR ME, THIS ORDINANCE HAS GOOD THINGS.

01:21:15 SOME THINGS I DISAGREE STILL.

01:21:17 BUT AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO HAVE A COMPROMISE TO MOVE

01:21:20 FORWARD, BEFORE SAYING, OKAY, WE HAVE GOT THIS

01:21:26 IMPLEMENTED.

01:21:27 STILL, WHAT'S WRONG?

01:21:29 IS THERE SOMETHING STILL WRONG?

01:21:31 AND THEN COME BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT IS STILL WRONG.

01:21:36 AND THINGS CAN'T BE COMPROMISED.

01:21:38 IT MAY GO TO A POINT WHERE YOU SAY, HEY, WE CAN'T GO TO

01:21:42 AN AGREEMENT AFTER THIS IS IMPLEMENTED, OR BEFORE IT IS

01:21:44 EVEN IMPLEMENTED.




01:21:46 SO IT MAY NEED TO GO TO THE VOTERS.

01:21:50 IT IS THEIR CITY.

01:21:51 WE ARE EMPLOYED BY THEM.

01:21:57 LET THEM DECIDE WHAT WE WANT.

01:21:59 WE CAN'T DO IT AS A BODY, OR AS AN ADMINISTRATION WE

01:22:02 CAN'T AGREE, DOWN THE ROAD IT COMES TO AN ISSUE WHERE WE

01:22:05 NEED TO MAKE SURE WHAT THE PUBLIC WANTS FOR CLEAR

01:22:08 UNDERSTANDING.

01:22:11 I SAY COMMUNICATION IS BAD, JOHN BENNETT HAS BEEN TRYING

01:22:14 TO WORK ON THAT A LOT.

01:22:15 I PRAISE HIM FOR THAT.

01:22:16 TEXTS ME ALL THE TIME WITH THINGS GOING ON.

01:22:19 I SAID IT SHOULD BE DEPARTMENT HEADS TELLING US WHAT

01:22:21 HAPPENED.

01:22:27 COMPROMISE AND THAT'S ALL YOU CAN ASK FOR.

01:22:32 SO WE WILL LISTEN.

01:22:35 THAT'S ALL SOMEONE WANTS, FOR SOMEONE JUST TO LISTEN, TO

01:22:38 VENT.

01:22:39 MR. DANIELS WAS HERE.

01:22:40 WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST.

01:22:43 THAT ITEM IS COMING UP NUMBER 4.

01:22:46 WE WILL LOOK FOR OTHER OPTIONS.

01:22:48 I KNOW I WILL.

01:22:49 CAN'T GIVE UP.

01:22:50 WE JUST CAN'T GIVE UP.




01:22:52 BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY TO THIS COUNCIL IS THAT YOU HAVE TO

01:22:58 UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE.

01:23:03 YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE HOUSE CULTURE.

01:23:06 YOU HAVE TO SEE HOW YOU ARE GOING TO BRING THEM TOGETHER

01:23:09 TO MAKE THEM WORK, TO GET THE BEST RESULTS.

01:23:13 I CAN TELL YOU, TO GET THE BEST RESULTS, YOU HAVE TO

01:23:17 CHANGE THE CULTURE.

01:23:20 YOU HAVE TO CHANGE CULTURE.

01:23:22 I YIELD BACK, MR. CHAIRMAN.

01:23:23 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

01:23:26 I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW THAT UP, YOU KNOW.

01:23:29 YOU SAID IT.

01:23:30 YOU SAID IT ALL AND YOU SAID IT VERY -- I DON'T KNOW, YOU

01:23:36 SAID IT ALL.

01:23:37 I ADMIRE THAT, SIR.

01:23:39 COUNCILMAN VIERA.

01:23:40 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

01:23:41 I APPRECIATE IT.

01:23:42 AND I AGREE, AND COUNCILMAN GUDES, I REMEMBER THAT DEBATE

01:23:45 VERY WELL AT A CHURCH NEAR TEMPLE TERRACE, BECAUSE IT WAS

01:23:48 THE FIRST TIME THAT I WAS EVER YELLED AT IN PUBLIC.

01:23:51 AND TO QUOTE ELVIS PRESLEY, I WAS ALL SHOOK UP.

01:23:56 SO REMEMBER THAT WELL, SIR, AND I REMEMBER THE DIFFERENT

01:23:59 CHALLENGES THAT CAME UP HERE.

01:24:00 YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT'S COMING




01:24:02 BEFORE US TODAY WITH THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

01:24:04 I JUST WANT TO TALK TO TWO, THREE, FOYER MINUTES IF I

01:24:08 MAY.

01:24:08 I WANT TO START WITH THE GENERAL PREFACE BECAUSE WE HEARD

01:24:11 FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT VOICES IN PUBLIC COMMENT, AND WE

01:24:13 HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM PEOPLE OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO,

01:24:16 AND I THINK A LOT OF TIMES WE ARE GETTING WAY CALL FALSE

01:24:21 CHOICES ON THIS ISSUE.

01:24:24 CHIEF DUGAN AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF ALL OF THIS, AND I

01:24:27 THINK HE'S A GOOD MAN AND A FINE PUBLIC SERVANT, SAID IN

01:24:30 THE VERY BEGINNING THAT YOU CAN BE OUTRAGED BY WHAT

01:24:33 HAPPENS TO GEORGE FLOYD, YOU CAN WANT CHANGE, YOU CAN

01:24:37 WANT CHANGE BASED UPON THAT OUTRAGE, BUT STILL, SUPPORT

01:24:41 POLICE OFFICERS, STILL RESPECT THE WORK THAT OUR LAW

01:24:45 ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS DO, AND STILL RESPECT WHAT THEIR

01:24:49 FAMILIES GO THROUGH.

01:24:50 HEARING FROM OUR FRIEND COUNCILMAN GUDES, AND OVER 25

01:24:53 YEARS OF SERVICE IN TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, I CAN'T

01:24:55 REPLICATE THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER BEEN A COP.

01:24:58 YOU GIVE ME A GUN I WILL PROBABLY SHOOT MY FOOT OFF.

01:25:01 BUT I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT.

01:25:05 YOU KNOW, ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WE BEGAN A DIALOGUE HERE IN

01:25:09 THIS CITY ON THE KIND OF CHANGE THAT WE NEED.

01:25:12 IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE HERE

01:25:14 IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, AND A LOT OF IT BY THE PAST




01:25:21 ADMINISTRATION, SOME OF IT BY CITY COUNCIL, YOU TAKE A

01:25:23 LOOK AT THE DIRECTION ON USE OF FORCE WITH REGARDS TO A

01:25:26 BAN ON CHOKE HOLDS, WITH A REGARD TO CHANGE ON NO-WARRANT

01:25:32 KNOCKS, WITH REGARD TO DUTY TO INTERVENE, DUTY TO WARN ON

01:25:36 SHOOTING, CHANGES IN POLICY WITH REGARDS TO USE OF FORCE,

01:25:39 HAVING FDLE TAKE A LOOK AT INCIDENTS INVOLVING POLICE

01:25:43 OFFICERS WHERE SOMEBODY DIES, HAVING AN OUTSIDE BODY,

01:25:46 OUTSIDE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

01:25:49 TAKING A LOOK AT AS I WILL TALK ABOUT THIS CRB ORDINANCE

01:25:52 PUT FORTH BY THE MAYOR, AND THE THOUGHTS OF CITY COUNCIL

01:25:55 THAT NO MATTER WHERE WE ARE GOING, WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS

01:25:58 ON THAT.

01:25:58 WE JUST GOT TO, AS I WILL TALK ABOUT, MAKE SURE THAT WE

01:26:01 DON'T BITE OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW.

01:26:03 I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

01:26:05 YOU TAKE A LOOK AT SOMETHING WE HAVE DONE WITH REGARDS TO

01:26:07 IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING FOR ALL OF OUR CITY OF TAMPA

01:26:10 EMPLOYEES, A DIALOGUE THAT BEGAN BACK IN 2018.

01:26:13 YOU TAKE A LOOK AT BODY CAMERAS.

01:26:14 THE CITY OF TAMPA IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC WHERE WE ARE

01:26:17 LOSING REVENUE INVESTING ABOUT $2 MILLION IN EQUIPPING

01:26:20 ALL OF OUR POLICE OFFICERS WITH BODY CAMERAS, SOMETHING

01:26:23 THAT I THINK MOST FOLKS SUPPORT.

01:26:24 THE GOOD WORK DONE BY OUR FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE COUNCILMAN

01:26:28 JOHN DINGFELDER WITH REGARDS TO COMMITTING UP TO A




01:26:30 MILLION DOLLARS, AGAIN A LOT OF MONEY, THAT WE ALL

01:26:33 SUPPORT.

01:26:34 AND MAKING SURE THAT IN MENTAL HEALTH RELATED CALLS WE

01:26:36 CAN HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL GO WITH A TAMPA

01:26:40 POLICE DEPARTMENT OFFICER.

01:26:41 YOU HAVE TAKE A LOOK AT OUR BUDGET.

01:26:43 WE CAUGHT A LOT OF HEAT FROM SOME FOLKS ON THE BUDGET.

01:26:46 I'LL SAY IT AND I THINK WE ALL AGREE WITH THIS, I STAND

01:26:48 WITH THAT.

01:26:49 I HAVE ALWAYS SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, YOU KNOW,

01:26:52 THERE'S AN OLD SAYING THAT I BELIEVE IN, YOU HAVE GOT TO

01:26:54 BE THE SAME PERSON ON SATURDAY NIGHT THAT YOU ARE ON

01:26:56 SUNDAY MORNING, AND I HAVE ALWAYS, WHETHER I AM TALKING

01:26:59 TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR TO AN ACTIVIST, ALWAYS

01:27:02 LIKE TO GIVE THE SAME LINE, BECAUSE WHEN THE VOTES ARE

01:27:06 COUNTED UP HERE, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

01:27:09 EVERYTHING IS CONSISTENT.

01:27:10 AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EMOTION IN THE LAST YEAR.

01:27:12 AND I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE CONSISTENT ON THAT.

01:27:14 BUT WITH THE BUDGET, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, I SAID NO

01:27:17 TO DEFUNDING THE POLICE, AND I THINK WE HAVE AS A BODY,

01:27:22 BUT NOT JUST TO THAT BUT ALSO TO CUTTING THE PUBLIC

01:27:24 SAFETY BUDGET.

01:27:25 SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALWAYS OPPOSED.

01:27:27 I DON'T KNOW WHAT REALITY WITHIN OUR GROWING CITY WITH




01:27:30 THE SERVICE THAT OUR RESIDENTS AND CONSTITUENTS

01:27:35 RIGHTFULLY DEMAND WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY, WHETHER

01:27:38 IT'S POLICE, FIRE, EMS, WHERE WE CAN GO FROM THAT.

01:27:42 YOU TAKE A LOOK AT OUR BOARD, OUR CRB GOOD PEOPLE,

01:27:45 COLONEL REYES RECENTLY JOINED THAT, OR MY GOOD FRIEND

01:27:49 BENITRO WIGGENS.

01:27:53 I WANT TO STAND UP FOR SOME OF THOSE MEMBERS I THINK WALK

01:27:55 ON WATER, PEOPLE LIKE CAROLYN COLLINS, A WOMAN WHOSE

01:28:00 INTEGRITY ON CIVIL RIGHTS NO ONE CAN EVER QUESTION.

01:28:02 MY GOOD FRIEND, MY COLLEAGUE, LINCOLN TAMAYO, ONE OF THE

01:28:09 FINEST MEN I KNOW WHO RUNS ACADEMY PREP, ONE OF THE BEST

01:28:13 PEOPLE, A JUDGE E.J. SALCINES.

01:28:21 IT'S A BIG DEAL BECAUSE HE HAS SUCH A COMMITMENT TO

01:28:24 JUSTICE.

01:28:24 LIKE MANY OF YOU ALL IN THE LAST YEAR, WE HAD A LOT OF

01:28:27 TALKS.

01:28:27 I TALKED TO ACTIVISTS.

01:28:30 YOU REMEMBER GOING WITH THE MAYOR TO A COUPLE OF MEETINGS

01:28:32 AND TALKING WITH ACTIVISTS, ET CETERA.

01:28:34 I WENT TO THE CRB MAYBE EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS AGO OR SO,

01:28:40 TALKED TO FOLKS THERE, ET CETERA.

01:28:41 I TALKED TO A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AS WELL.

01:28:45 I THINK WE HAVE TO TALK WITH A LOT OF FOLKS.

01:28:47 AGAIN, YOU CAN SUPPORT POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY, AND ALSO

01:28:53 RESPECT THE WORK THAT OUR POLICE OFFICERS DO, BUT YOU




01:28:56 HAVE GOT TO DO BOTH.

01:28:57 YOU HAVE GOT TO DO BOTH.

01:28:58 IF YOU ARE GOING TO SUPPORT POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY, YOU

01:29:01 HAVE ALSO GOT TO ALWAYS SAY TO POLICE OFFICERS, WE ARE

01:29:04 DOING THIS BECAUSE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY, ESPECIALLY

01:29:07 FOR FOLKS WHO HAVE POTENTIALLY VIOLENT -- VIOLENCE OCCURS

01:29:13 ON THEIR JOB, THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY IS AMERICA'S

01:29:16 JAMES MADISON.

01:29:17 THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT IT IS.

01:29:18 IT IS.

01:29:19 AND NOBODY IS EXEMPT FROM THAT.

01:29:20 NOT CITY COUNCIL.

01:29:21 NOT THE FBI.

01:29:22 NOT TPD.

01:29:23 NOT THE IRS.

01:29:24 EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT BODY OUGHT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE, AND

01:29:27 THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT IT IS.

01:29:28 SO CHANGE IS NOT ANTI-POLICE.

01:29:30 WE HEARD SOME FOLKS SPEAK TODAY TALKING AGAINST THE IDEA

01:29:35 OF A CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

01:29:37 I STRONGLY SUPPORT IT.

01:29:38 I STRONGLY SUPPORT THE MAYOR'S CHANGES.

01:29:40 I'LL TALK ABOUT SOME IDEAS THAT I HAVE AS WELL, BUT I

01:29:43 THINK WE CAN BUILD ON THAT.

01:29:44 BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT.




01:29:47 YOU TAKE A LOOK AT MY RECORD.

01:29:49 IF SOMEBODY KNOWS CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT ME, ONE OF THEM IS

01:29:52 THAT I AM PROUD TO ALWAYS STAND WITH THE WORK, THE

01:29:56 SACRIFICES OF OUR FIRST RESPONDERS.

01:29:58 WHETHER THEY ARE FIRE, WHETHER THEY ARE EMS, WHETHER THEY

01:30:01 ARE POLICE OFFICERS, THEY REPRESENT THE BEST OF OUR CITY,

01:30:06 THEY REPRESENT THE BEST OF JUST SO MUCH, PEOPLE WHO GO

01:30:11 INTO SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME RUN FROM, AND THEY DO

01:30:14 THAT FOR A LIVING.

01:30:16 YES, WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

01:30:18 YES, WE HAVE TO HAVE REGULATION.

01:30:20 YES, WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO THE MOMENT AS WE HAVE AS A

01:30:23 CITY, BUT WE ALWAYS GOT TO HAVE THAT RESPECT DOWN.

01:30:26 WE HAVE ALWAYS GOT TO COMMUNICATE THAT RESPECT AND IF WE

01:30:29 EVER FIND OURSELVES AS ELECTED OFFICIALS RUNNING A WAY

01:30:32 FROM HONORING AND RESPECTING LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEN CHECK

01:30:36 YOURSELF, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE GO WRONG.

01:30:38 THAT'S WHERE WE GO WRONG.

01:30:39 I THINK THAT THIS IS A VERY GOOD ORDINANCE.

01:30:41 THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT I WANT.

01:30:43 THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT I WANT.

01:30:45 IN THIS ORDINANCE THAT I THINK ARE COMMON SENSE.

01:30:48 NUMBER ONE IS THE ISSUE OF INDEPENDENT COUNSEL FOR THIS

01:30:51 BOARD, FOR THIS BODY.

01:30:53 I THINK THERE'S WORRIES ON THIS SOMEHOW BEING A TAX ON




01:30:58 THE BUDGET.

01:30:59 I THINK DO A COMMONSENSE APPROACH, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT

01:31:02 THAT, LIMITING THE HOURS AND WITH THE CONSENT OF MRS.

01:31:06 GRIMES OR CITY ATTORNEY, 10, 12, 15 HOURS A MONTH AT $150

01:31:11 AN HOUR WHICH IS A NORMAL GOVERNMENT HOUR BUDGET FOR AN

01:31:15 ATTORNEY, BY THE WAY, ABOUT 150 IS ABOUT, T THERE AND WE

01:31:20 CAN DO THAT.

01:31:20 I THINK THAT'S A GOOD STEP THAT ADDS ON A LITTLE BIT,

01:31:23 JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THIS ORDINANCE, RIGHT, THAT WILL GO

01:31:27 A REALLY LONG WAY IN TERMS OF MAKING IT BETTER.

01:31:30 I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THAT.

01:31:31 AND THAT'S A POSITION, BY THE WAY, THAT I TOLD THE

01:31:33 ADMINISTRATION ON NUMEROUS TIMES AND THAT I SAID FROM THE

01:31:37 VERY BEGINNING, BECAUSE I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

01:31:39 SECOND IS, WE TALK TO MAJORITY OF VOTES COMING FROM TAMPA

01:31:42 CITY COUNCIL FOR THIS.

01:31:43 I HAVE A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE SERVICE THAT A LOT OF

01:31:47 FOLKS ARE DOING THERE RIGHT NOW ON THE CRB.

01:31:49 I WANT TO RESPECT THAT SERVICE.

01:31:51 AND IF WE MAKE ANY CHANGES ON THAT, AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE

01:31:54 FROM THE BEGINNING, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS A

01:31:58 TRANSITION WHERE PEOPLE VOLUNTARILY LEAVE, AND THEN ANY

01:32:01 VOTES THAT COME TO US OR THE MAYOR UNDER WHATEVER SYSTEM

01:32:04 WE MAY ADOPT, RESPECTS THAT SERVICE.

01:32:07 I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO BE KICKED OFF THIS BOARD, BECAUSE




01:32:10 I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THERE BY ALL INFORMATION

01:32:13 THAT I HAVE ARE DOING A VERY GOOD JOB.

01:32:16 THAT BEING SAID, WE HAVE A PROPOSAL RIGHT I KNOW FOR

01:32:19 ELEVEN MEMBERS, FIVE FROM THE MAYOR, FIVE FROM CITY

01:32:22 COUNCIL, ONE FROM THE NAACP.

01:32:24 I STRONGLY SUPPORT THE NAACP POSITION.

01:32:27 WE COULD, THROWING THAT OUT THERE, HAVE THAT CONFIRMED BY

01:32:31 TAMPA CITY COUNCIL SO THAT BECOMES A COUNCIL APPOINTMENT

01:32:33 THROUGH THE NAACP THEREBY TAKING CARE OF THAT ISSUE WITH

01:32:37 REGARDS TO A MAJORITY OF VOTES OF CITY COUNCIL, THAT NO

01:32:40 MATTER WHAT WE DO HERE TODAY, LET'S GET THIS THING DONE

01:32:43 TODAY.

01:32:45 WE CAN'T KICK THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD ANYMORE.

01:32:47 PEOPLE ARE WATCHING IN THE COMMUNITY.

01:32:49 LET'S GET THIS THING DONE TODAY.

01:32:50 NO MORE CONTINUANCES.

01:32:52 WE HAVE GOT TO KNOW RIGHT NOW WHERE WE TAKE ALL THIS

01:32:55 STUFF THAT WE AGREE ON.

01:32:56 WE CAN HAVE A GREAT ORDINANCE THAT AGAIN BUILD ON

01:32:59 IMPLICIT BIAS, BUILD ON BODY CAMERAS, BUILD ON USE OF

01:33:02 FORCE CHANGES GOES ALONG WITH COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER'S

01:33:10 ISSUE ON MENTAL HEALTH THAT BUILD AN AGENDA THAT REALLY

01:33:14 HELPS, BECAUSE A LOT OF US HAVE TAKEN THAT VERY, VERY

01:33:17 SERIOUSLY.

01:33:18 WE HAVE TO BECAUSE OF THE MORAL ISSUES, THE MORAL ISSUES




01:33:20 OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND DECENCY AND CIVIL INJUSTICE THAT ARE

01:33:27 INVOLVED.

01:33:28 WE CAN DO THAT AND I HOPE WE BRING IT HOME TODAY, SO TO

01:33:31 SPEAK.

01:33:31 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

01:33:32 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

01:33:34 ANYBODY ELSE?

01:33:35 ANYBODY ELSE?

01:33:35 COUNCILMAN CITRO.

01:33:36 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

01:33:41 I WANT TO THANK THE COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR SPEAKING VERY

01:33:44 PASSIONATELY AND ARTICULATING THEIR POINTS VERY, VERY

01:33:48 WELL.

01:33:48 FIRST, I JUST WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE THAT I

01:33:53 HAVE HEARD FROM THE ACLU, I HAVE HEARD FROM OUR LEGAL

01:33:58 STAFF, I HAVE HEARD FROM THE PBA.

01:34:05 HAS ANYBODY HEARD FROM THE BOARD ITSELF?

01:34:08 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NO.

01:34:12 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THIS BOARD NEEDS TO BE ORGANIC AND

01:34:15 FOREVER GROWING, AND POSSIBLY FOREVER CHANGING.

01:34:20 AND WHAT COUNCILMAN VIERA SAID, I HAVE KNOWN A LOT OF

01:34:23 THESE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, ALSO.

01:34:26 NOT ONLY IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION, BUT YOU ASK ANYBODY IN

01:34:29 THE CITY OF TAMPA ABOUT MR. E.J. SALCINES, ONE OF THE

01:34:37 MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE IN THIS CITY, MS. IRENE GUY,




01:34:41 AND TAMAYO.

01:34:45 AND THE PART IN THIS DRAFT THAT I LIKE THE MOST IS THE

01:34:49 BOARD COMES TO US, CITY COUNCIL, ANNUALLY, TELLING US

01:34:55 WHAT THEY WANT, IF THEY WANT CHANGES, WE CAN ACCOMMODATE

01:35:01 THEM.

01:35:01 IF THEY WANT TO KEEP THINGS THE SAME WAY, WE CAN

01:35:05 ACCOMMODATE THEM.

01:35:07 THAT IS THE BIGGEST PART OF THIS DRAFT ORDINANCE, IF THEY

01:35:11 HAVE TO APPEAR LIVE AND IN PERSON TO TELL US HOW THEIR

01:35:17 BOARD IS HANDLING THE SITUATION.

01:35:24 COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU SPOKE OF FEAR.

01:35:29 AND THERE IS FEAR ON ALL SIDES.

01:35:33 POLICEMEN HAVE THIS FEAR, OH, MY GOD, WHAT DO I DO?

01:35:36 AM I GOING TO SAY THE RIGHT THING?

01:35:38 AM I GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING?

01:35:41 IS SOMETHING GOING TO COME OUT OF MY MOUTH THAT

01:35:43 SHOULDN'T?

01:35:43 IF I TOUCH SOMEBODY ON THE SHOULDER AND SAY, HAVE A NICE

01:35:46 DAY, WILL THAT BE A MISTAKE?

01:35:49 BUT WHAT THIS ORDINANCE IS GOING TO DO IS EVEN A BIGGER

01:35:56 WORD, AND THAT'S TRANSPARENCY.

01:35:58 IT'S GOING TO BRING OUT A HECK OF A LOT MORE TRANSPARENCY

01:36:01 WITHIN OUR CITY.

01:36:08 ONE OF THE PEOPLE SPEAKING TODAY TALKED ABOUT THE BIAS

01:36:11 TRAINING.




01:36:11 I JUMPED ON THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE A PART OF THAT, AND I

01:36:14 HEARD FROM CITIZENS, I HEARD FROM ACLU, I HEARD FROM THE

01:36:18 POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND EVEN THE CHIEF AND OTHER POLICE

01:36:23 OFFICERS THAT WERE PRESENT MENTIONED THAT THERE IS CHANGE

01:36:29 THAT HAS TO BE DONE.

01:36:36 MR. D'ANGELO IS ALWAYS HERE SPEAKING, GIVING US HIS

01:36:41 OPINION, AND I HAVE ALWAYS MADE THE STATEMENT THAT AS A

01:36:46 WHOLE, AS A WHOLE, I WILL ALWAYS STAND BEHIND TAMPA

01:36:50 POLICE DEPARTMENT COMMA, ONE OFFICER STEPS OUT OF LINE

01:37:00 SHOULD BE DEALT WITH QUICKLY AND WITHIN THE POWER OF THE

01:37:03 LAW.

01:37:07 I BELIEVE THIS IS GOING TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT IF

01:37:12 SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING WRONG, THEY WILL BE DEALT WITH.

01:37:17 MY FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS, MY BROTHERS, WE HAVE BATTED

01:37:23 THE BALL BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE NET FOR LONG ENOUGH.

01:37:26 LET'S MAKE A STAND.

01:37:27 IF WE NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON THIS, BUT LET'S MOVE

01:37:32 FORWARD TO SHOW THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA THAT WE ARE TAKING

01:37:36 INITIATIVE, AND LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS TODAY.

01:37:40 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

01:37:40 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

01:37:44 ANYBODY ELSE?

01:37:46 COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

01:37:47 >>BILL CARLSON: YEAH, JUST TO GET BACK TO THE GENESIS OF

01:37:51 THIS, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS IN CASE ANYBODY IS WATCHING




01:37:54 FOR THE FIRST TIME, 2015, THE "TAMPA BAY TIMES" DID AN

01:37:58 INVESTIGATIVE SERIES THAT DISCOVERED I THINK BIKING WHILE

01:38:02 BLACK THAT SHOWS RACIAL DISCRIMINATION PUSHED BY THE CITY

01:38:07 OF TAMPA IN THE LAST ADMINISTRATION.

01:38:10 AS A RESULT, CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS GOT DIAGNOSE AND SAID WE

01:38:14 SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS AGAIN, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE

01:38:16 PREVENT IT.

01:38:16 AND THAT'S TAKEN OWN MANY DIFFERENT FORMS.

01:38:19 ONE OF THE THINGS I ASKED FOR WAS A CITIZENS REVIEW

01:38:22 BOARD.

01:38:23 THE FORMER CITY COUNCIL, SOME OF YOU WERE ON IT, STARTED

01:38:26 TO CREATE ITS OWN CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD AND THE LAST MAYOR

01:38:29 CREATED HIS OWN, WHICH WAS A SHADOW OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY

01:38:32 WANTED.

01:38:33 AND SO IN MY MIND THIS IS JUST FIXING A CALM THAT WAS

01:38:38 CREATED FIVE YEARS AGO.

01:38:39 IT IS EDITING IT.

01:38:42 THE NEGOTIATED VERSION THAT'S HERE NOW IS LIGHT YEARS

01:38:45 AHEAD OF THAT VERSION THAT WAS CREATED YEARS AGO, AND

01:38:48 LEGAL CAN TELL US, BUT I BELIEVE THE WAY THEY SET IT UP

01:38:51 IS THIS WILL REPLACE THAT EXECUTIVE ORDER AND THAT

01:38:55 ORDINANCE BECAUSE BOTH HAD THINGS IN THEM THAT TOOK POW

01:38:59 AREAS WAY FROM CITY COUNCIL, AND I THINK VICE VERSA.

01:39:01 SO WE WILL BE CLEANING UP SOME OF THE CHARTER ISSUES AS

01:39:04 WELL, BUT IF WE ARE CLEANING IT UP, AND MAKING IT SIMILAR




01:39:09 TO OTHER CHARTER RE-- OR CITIZEN REVIEW BOARDS, SOME OF

01:39:14 US SAT ON THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, THEN THAT BY ITSELF

01:39:17 SHOULDN'T BE CONTROVERSIAL.

01:39:19 WE ARE JUST TRYING TO CLEAN UP AND MAKE IT MORE

01:39:21 EFFECTIVE.

01:39:24 SO I WANT TO THANK THIS MAYOR FOR WORKING CLOSELY WITH

01:39:27 CITY COUNCIL AND THE COMMUNITY.

01:39:29 I CAN TELL YOU ALL IN A DAY THAT THE MAYOR PRESENTED HER

01:39:32 FIRST VERSION SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, I HAD ALREADY SET UP A

01:39:35 MEETING WITH GINA AND THE COMMUNITY TO LISTEN TO THEIR

01:39:38 FEEDBACK, AND GINA HELD A MEETING AT THE MAYOR'S ORDERS

01:39:41 ANYWAY AND STARTED NEGOTIATING EDITING IT EVEN THOUGH THE

01:39:44 MAYOR JUST HOURS BEFORE PRESENTED ANOTHER VERSION. AND

01:39:46 WE HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH ON IT.

01:39:48 I THINK THE VERSION WE HAVE IS GOOD.

01:39:49 I WANT TO THANK URSULA AND GINA AND THE WHOLE TEAM FOR

01:39:53 WORKING ON IT.

01:39:54 THANK YOU TO THEM FOR LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY, TO ALL

01:39:57 SIDES.

01:39:58 THE LAST VERSION PBA WAS NOT HAPPY AND ACLU AND OTHERS

01:40:03 WERE NOT HAPPY BUT IT'S NOT JUST ACLU.

01:40:05 THERE WERE 22 CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS THAT CAME FORWARD IN

01:40:09 2015, AND AN IMPORTANT THEY CAME ON THE HEELS OF THE U.S.

01:40:13 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CONDEMNING THE CITY OF TAMPA BECAUSE

01:40:16 OF THAT POLICY THAT WAS IN PLACE AND SAYING THAT THE U.S.




01:40:19 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAID THAT THERE WERE PERCEIVED CIVIL

01:40:25 RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO FRESHEN UP CAN

01:40:28 GO BACK.

01:40:28 WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE CHECKS

01:40:31 AND BALANCES IN PLACE, AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A MAYOR

01:40:35 NOW WHO WORKS CLOSELY WITH US, WE NEED TO ALSO PRO THE

01:40:39 FUTURE AND MAKE SURE THAT THIS KIND OF WORK DOES NOT

01:40:43 BECOME UNBALANCED EVEN THOUGH I THINK THIS MAYOR WOULD

01:40:46 PUT GREAT PEOPLE ON THE BOARD, THERE'S ALWAYS A

01:40:48 POSSIBILITY WE WILL GET ANOTHER BAD MAYOR AND THEY WILL

01:40:50 TRY TO PUSH POLICIES THAT WILL HURT THE COMMUNITY LIKE

01:40:52 HAPPENED BEFORE, AND WE NEED TO TRY TO CHANGE THAT.

01:40:55 SO OF THE THINGS THAT ARE STILL RECOMMENDED BY THE

01:40:58 COMMUNITY, THE ONE THAT I WOULD PUSH FOR THE MOST, IS TO

01:41:01 CHANGE THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD. THE REASON WHY IT WAS

01:41:03 SET UP THIS WAY LAST TIME IS FROM THE LAST MAYOR'S

01:41:09 EXECUTIVE ORDER BECAUSE HE WANTED TO CONTROL EVERYTHING,

01:41:12 WHICH HAS LED TO MULTIPLE PROBLEMS IN THE REGION, SO

01:41:15 KILLING THE TAMPA BAY BRAND, HURTING OUR ALLIANCES IN

01:41:20 LOTS OF DIFFERENT PLACES, BUT THIS WAS A HUGE CIVIL

01:41:24 RIGHTS VIOLATION.

01:41:25 WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE GET A BAD MAYOR WHO HURTS

01:41:29 THE COMMUNITY THROUGH CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS THAT THE

01:41:32 COMMUNITY IS IN CHARGE OF AN OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE LIKE

01:41:34 THIS.




01:41:35 SO WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE, JUST ADDING TO THE PROPOSAL

01:41:40 THAT'S ON THE TABLE, IS THAT EACH CITY COUNCIL MEMBER

01:41:43 WOULD APPOINT ONE CANDIDATE, AND THEN THE MAYOR -- AND

01:41:47 THIS IS NOT ABOUT THIS MAYOR, JUST MAKING SURE IN THE

01:41:50 FUTURE, WHOEVER IS MAYOR WOULD APPOINT THREE, AND THEN

01:41:52 THE MAYOR PROPOSES NAACP WOULD HAVE A SEAT, AND SO THAT

01:41:57 WOULD MAKE A TOTAL OF ELEVEN.

01:41:59 BY THE WAY, I THINK THE MAYOR ALSO OFFERED A SEAT TO ACLU

01:42:04 AND THEY DECLINED BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST THEIR BYLAWS.

01:42:06 BUT, ANYWAY, I THINK WE ARE CLOSE TO A GOOD COMPROMISE AT

01:42:10 THIS POINT.

01:42:11 THERE ARE SOME THINGS THE COMMUNITY STILL WANTS IN IT AND

01:42:13 GINA'S ADVICE TO THEM IS THEY SHOULD GO TO A CHARTER

01:42:16 AMENDMENT, AND SEE IF THE VOTERS WILL PUT IT IN, BECAUSE

01:42:19 THERE'S SOME POWERS THAT WE CANNOT DELEGATE THAT THEY

01:42:24 WOULD REQUIRE CHARTER CHANGES.

01:42:25 BUT IF WE CAN CHANGE THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD, I THINK IT

01:42:28 WOULD MAKE IT MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMMUNITY, AND

01:42:31 AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE

01:42:35 ANTI-POLICE.

01:42:36 WE ARE PRO FAIRNESS IN THE COMMUNITY, AND PRO-CREATING

01:42:40 OVERSIGHTS.

01:42:41 WE ALL HAVE ALL KIND OF OVERSIGHTS AS WELL AND WE NEED TO

01:42:44 MAKE SURE THAT THE RIGHT THINGS ARE IN PLACE TO PROTECT

01:42:48 THE COMMUNITY.




01:42:49 THANK YOU.

01:42:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

01:42:51 ANYBODY ELSE?

01:42:51 COUNCILMAN MIRANDA AND COUNCILMAN GUDES.

01:42:57 YOU ARE MUTED, SIR.

01:43:04 WE CAN'T HEAR YOU, COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

01:43:07 THERE IS NO VOLUME.

01:43:14 ARE YOU UNMUTED?

01:43:23 ALL RIGHT.

01:43:26 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, CAN YOU HEAR MIRANDA?

01:43:29 YOU CAN?

01:43:29 OKAY.

01:43:30 WE CAN'T HEAR HIM ON THIS END.

01:43:35 THERE YOU GO.

01:43:36 GO AHEAD, SIR.

01:43:39 NOW IT WORKS.

01:43:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: IT WORKS BETTER NOW?

01:43:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

01:43:43 GO AHEAD.

01:43:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

01:43:45 MR. DINGFELDER AND I CAN HEAR EACH OTHER.

01:43:47 I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS I HAVE HEARD IN

01:43:50 THE PAST.

01:43:51 BUT LET ME SAY THIS BEFORE WE START.

01:43:53 THERE'S NOT ONE DOCUMENT OR ONE ORDINANCE OF ANY SEQUENCE




01:43:58 IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HASN'T BEEN AMENDED INCLUDING

01:44:00 THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

01:44:03 SO I HAVE WORKED WITH VARIOUS MAYORS.

01:44:09 THEY HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON, TO MAKE THE CITY OF TAMPA

01:44:12 BETTER.

01:44:15 THEY HAVE MANY THINGS NOT IN COMMON.

01:44:20 AS THOSE OPPORTUNITIES, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT

01:44:23 PERSONALITIES, AND DIFFERENT ANGLES, AND NOT ONE OF THEM

01:44:29 DID I EVER THOUGHT OF IN MY LIFE DID SOMETHING

01:44:32 INAPPROPRIATELY WRONG TO THE PUBLIC, AND THEY HAVE WAYS

01:44:39 OF DOING THINGS JUST LIKE ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE A

01:44:42 WAY OF DOING THEIR THINGS AND I AM SURE THIS MAYOR AND

01:44:44 FUTURE MAYORS HAVE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES, DIFFERENT

01:44:48 OUTLOOK IN LIFE, DIFFERENT OUTLOOK AT CONSTITUTIONAL

01:44:52 MATTERS.

01:44:52 LIKE I SAID EARLIER, NOT ONE THAT I KNOW OF ANY SUBSTANCE

01:44:57 HASN'T BEEN AMENDED INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES

01:44:59 CONSTITUTION.

01:45:01 LET'S PUT THAT IN NOW.

01:45:03 SO WHAT I SEE HERE ARE CERTAINLY STEPS IN THE RIGHT

01:45:07 DIRECTION BY THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, THE MAYOR, AND BY THE

01:45:13 CITY OF TAMPA'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT, THAT MADE A PROCESS OF

01:45:19 SUBSTANCE MUCH MORE VIABLE FOR ALL.

01:45:25 IS IT AMENDING THE ORIGINAL ONE?

01:45:27 YES.




01:45:27 BUT THAT'S COMMON SENSE THAT IF YOU LEAVE THE SAME ONE IN

01:45:31 PLACE FOREVER, YOU ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

01:45:34 BECAUSE TIME GOES ON, PEOPLE'S IDEALISM, AND PEOPLE'S

01:45:40 REALISM OF FEAR, OF NOT FEAR, LIKE MR. GUDES WAS TALKING

01:45:44 ABOUT, IS CERTAINLY PRESENT AT ANY ONE TIME.

01:45:47 SO I LISTENED TO MS. RICHARDSON AND MRS. GRIMES THIS

01:45:55 MORNING TO MAKE SOME CHANGES.

01:45:56 IS IT PERFECT WHAT EVERYONE WANTS?

01:45:59 NO.

01:46:01 WHEN YOU HAVE TWO PARTIES THAT COME TO A TABLE AND THEY

01:46:04 BOTH LEAVE NOT GETTING WHAT THEY WANT -- YOU DON'T WANT

01:46:12 ONE SIDE GETTING EVERYTHING AND THE OTHER SIDE NOTHING.

01:46:14 THIS IS A COMPROMISE OF SORTS.

01:46:16 AND IN THE FUTURE, I'M SURE THIS ONE WILL BE AMENDED

01:46:26 I SUPPORT WHAT THE MAYOR HAS MUTT ON.

01:46:29 OUT OF THE ELEVEN, I AM NOT CERTAIN HOW IT'S FIVE, FIVE

01:46:33 AND ONE, FIVE, THREE AND WHATEVER, AND WE WILL WORK THAT

01:46:39 OUT AS WE WORK THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE TODAY.

01:46:41 AND FINALLY TODAY WE'LL HAVE A CHANGE IN ANOTHER

01:46:44 ORDINANCE.

01:46:45 AND I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR SOCIETY.

01:46:46 I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR THE CITIZENS.

01:46:48 BUT ABOVE ALL, THE BEST POLICE OFFICE IN THE WORLD, NOW

01:46:54 WHO THEY ARE?

01:46:55 THEY ARE MOTHER AND FATHER.




01:46:57 AND I NEVER FORGOT WHAT MY FATHER TOLD ME ONCE, AND HE

01:47:03 SAID, YOU NEED HELP, CALL SOMEBODY ELSE.

01:47:07 THAT'S WHEN THERE WERE NO CELL PHONES AND PAY PHONES ON

01:47:10 EVERY CORNER.

01:47:11 AND IF YOU THINK THAT DOESN'T STICK WITH YOU, YOU HAVE

01:47:13 GOT ANOTHER THING COMING.

01:47:14 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

01:47:15 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

01:47:16 COUNCILMAN GUDES.

01:47:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU AGAIN.

01:47:20 I DID LEAVE ONE THING OUT IN MY LAST COMMENTS.

01:47:23 WHATEVER WE DECIDE TODAY TO DO, THERE IS ONE PORTION, I

01:47:30 WILL SAY PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE WHEN I TALKED

01:47:32 TO MS. GRIMES.

01:47:33 I WON'T GO INTO THAT BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

01:47:36 WHATEVER WE PASS, I MAY COME BACK WITH A SUBSEQUENT

01:47:38 MOTION, THAT I WOULD LIKE THIS COUNCIL TO SUGGEST DRAFTED

01:47:44 REVISION TO THE LANGUAGE IN THE CRB ORDINANCE TO MAKE

01:47:47 SURE THAT THE ORDINANCE SUCCEEDS 2015-2021 IN ITS

01:47:53 ENTIRETY SO THERE'S NO QUESTION THIS REFERS TO THE

01:47:55 LANGUAGE OF THE ORDINANCE, BUT DOES NOT INCLUDE CHANGES

01:47:58 TO THE SECRETARY OF SECTION 18.

01:48:02 SO I WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE --

01:48:04 >>> IS THAT AN OFFICIAL MOTION OR HOLD ON?

01:48:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I WILL WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS




01:48:12 ORDINANCE SUPERSEDES THE LAST ORDINANCE WITH NO QUESTION.

01:48:15 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

01:48:15 WELL, I THINK EVERYTHING HAS BEEN SAID.

01:48:19 I WILL GO TO YOU, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, RIGHT AFTER

01:48:24 THIS.

01:48:24 COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU SAID ALL FROM A PERSONAL

01:48:27 PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE

01:48:29 AISLE, AS A POLICE OFFICER SERVING THE COMMUNITY FOR OVER

01:48:32 25 YEARS, 26 YEARS, I BELIEVE IS THE EXACT TIME, TO

01:48:35 SERVING ON THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, TO BEING A

01:48:40 CANDIDATE, TO BEING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, SO YOU HAVE BEEN

01:48:43 ON ALL SIDES OF THE AISLE,

01:48:46 AND YOU TOLD US IN SUCH DETAIL YOUR STORY GROWING UP,

01:48:50 YOUR STORY AS TO HOW AND WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO BECOME A

01:48:54 POLICE OFFICER, AND THEN MOVING FORWARD AND COMING TO BE

01:48:57 AN ELECTED OFFICIAL POSITION.

01:48:59 COUNCILMAN VIERA HAS SAID EVERYTHING VERY ELOQUENTLY.

01:49:04 COUNCILMAN CARLSON, COUNCILMAN CITRO, COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

01:49:08 I WAS HERE IN 2015.

01:49:10 I GOT ELECTED, I GOT SWORN IN IN APRIL, AND THE

01:49:14 DISCUSSION CAME UP WITH THE BICYCLING WHILE BLACK

01:49:18 CONVERSATION THAT TRIGGERED THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE

01:49:21 BOARD AS IT EXISTS NOW.

01:49:26 MY GOAL IS THIS AT THE END OF THE DAY UNANIMOUS POSITION

01:49:29 OF PUBLIC SERVANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.




01:49:31 DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS OR THE RIGHT ANSWERS

01:49:34 OR THAT IT MAKES EVERYBODY HAPPY, BUT HAVING BEEN PART OF

01:49:37 THIS DISCUSSION FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS NOW, I THINK IT'S

01:49:40 TIME TO BRING THIS IN FOR A LANDING.

01:49:42 BUT AS COUNCILMAN MIRANDA SAID, THE CONSTITUTION IS A

01:49:47 LIVING BREATHING DOCUMENT.

01:49:48 IT CHANGES.

01:49:49 WHATEVER WE IMPLEMENT TODAY, WHATEVER DOES OR DOES NOT

01:49:51 HAPPEN, DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T REVISIT IT.

01:49:53 WE CAN REVISIT IT IN THE FUTURE, SEE WHAT IS WORKING AND

01:49:56 WHAT IS NOT WORKING AND ADD CHANGES FROM THERE.

01:49:59 IT'S NOT ONE STOP, THIS IS THE END OF THE ROAD THING.

01:50:03 THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES ON.

01:50:05 SO I'LL STOP THERE.

01:50:07 I KNOW COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, I SAW YOUR HAND GO UP.

01:50:10 GO AHEAD, SIR.

01:50:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

01:50:15 CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY?

01:50:16 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, SIR.

01:50:17 GO AHEAD.

01:50:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU TO ALL MY FELLOW COUNCIL

01:50:22 MEMBERS FOR YOUR ELOQUENCE, ESPECIALLY COUNCILMAN GUDES.

01:50:26 AS ALWAYS FROM THE HEART.

01:50:30 HE HAS TREMENDOUS KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA.

01:50:32 WE APPRECIATE YOUR GUIDANCE.




01:50:34 I ALSO APPRECIATE OUR CITY ATTORNEY, GINA GRIMES, AND

01:50:40 ASSISTANT CHIEF ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY URSULA

01:50:43 RICHARDSON, WHOM I HAVE KNOWN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, AND

01:50:47 THEY WORKED VERY HARD ON THOSE, AND EVERYBODY, GINA, ON

01:50:52 YOUR TEAM HAS WORKED HARD ON THIS.

01:50:56 WE APPRECIATE YOU.

01:50:58 AND SOMETIMES WE TAKE QUESTIONS, DON'T TAKE THAT FACT WE

01:51:02 DON'T APPRECIATE IT.

01:51:02 WE DO.

01:51:03 WE ALSO APPRECIATE TPD.

01:51:04 I HAVE SEEN E-MAILS FLYING AROUND THAT SAYS DINGFELDER

01:51:07 THIS, DINGFELDER THAT.

01:51:08 THAT'S NONSENSE.

01:51:09 I APPRECIATE TPD.

01:51:13 ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS IN THIS ADMINISTRATION IS JOHN

01:51:16 BENNETT, AND HE KNOWS HOW I FEEL.

01:51:22 I ALSO APPRECIATE CHIEF DUGAN AND THE WORK HE'S DONE.

01:51:25 I THINK HE'S TAKEN A LOT OF CHEAP SHOTS, AND I DON'T

01:51:28 APPRECIATE THAT.

01:51:29 AND I APPRECIATE MAYOR JANE CASTOR.

01:51:31 I THINK SHE'S DONE A GOOD JOB.

01:51:33 SHE'S NO LONGER THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

01:51:35 SHE'S NOW THE MAYOR.

01:51:35 SHE WEARS A DIFFERENT HAT.

01:51:37 I THINK SHE'S DOING A GOOD JOB WITH THAT.




01:51:40 LET ME MAKE THIS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

01:51:42 THIS IS NOT ABOUT THIS MAYOR, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THIS

01:51:46 CHIEF, AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT THIS CITY COUNCIL.

01:51:49 THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE NAACP, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE TAMPA

01:51:53 PATRIOT GROUP OR THE ACLU, IT'S NOT A RED ISSUE, IT'S NOT

01:51:58 A BLUE ISSUE.

01:51:59 THIS IS A COMMUNITY ISSUE, AND IT'S ABOUT MAKING OUR

01:52:01 COMMUNITY A BETTER PLACE, A BETTER PLACE.

01:52:06 COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU SAID IT VERY WELL, IT'S OFTEN

01:52:12 REALITY, AND THAT'S REALLY CRITICAL BECAUSE WITHOUT

01:52:15 CHANGE, THE PERCEPTION IS SAME OL' SAME OL'.

01:52:19 IT'S JUST A GOOD OL' BOY NETWORK, AS YOU SAID, COUNCILMAN

01:52:23 GUDES.

01:52:24 BUT SOMETIMES WE NEED TO MAKE SOME CHANGES AND LET PEOPLE

01:52:26 KNOW THAT THAT CHANGE CAN BE PERCEIVED AS THE NEW

01:52:31 REALITY.

01:52:32 AND WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY IS THIS IS A

01:52:36 COMMUNITY THAT WANTS TO HAVE AN UNFILTERED VOICE.

01:52:39 THEY WANT TO HAVE CONFIDENCE AND TRUST THAT THERE IS AN

01:52:43 INDEPENDENT POLICE REVIEW BOARD.

01:52:47 AND LEWIS SAID INDEPENDENCE COMES WITH SITTING AS A LEGAL

01:52:54 ADVISER.

01:52:54 WHEN WE WANT INDEPENDENCE, WE LOOK TO MARTY SHELBY AS OUR

01:52:57 INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVISER.

01:53:00 AND I AGREE WITH YOU, LUIS, I THINK THAT BOARD NEEDS TO




01:53:03 HAVE ITS INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVISER.

01:53:07 WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT THE ADVISER WHO IS DOING THE JOB

01:53:11 NOW OR THE OTHER ADVISER WHO MS. GRIMES HAS PROPOSED IS

01:53:15 DOING A BAD JOB OR GOING TO DO A BAD JOB OR ANYTHING.

01:53:18 BUT IT'S THE PERCEPTION.

01:53:19 THE PERCEPTION THAT'S IMPORTANT.

01:53:23 WE NEED TO CREATE A NEW CRB THAT DEMANDS ACCOUNTABILITY,

01:53:27 RESPONSIBILITY, AND TRANSPARENCY FOR THE COMMUNITY AS

01:53:31 RELATED TO TPD, BECAUSE AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT, WE SERVE

01:53:35 THE COMMUNITY, AND TPD SERVES THE COMMUNITY.

01:53:39 AND I DON'T FIND THE ARGUMENT THAT DEMANDING HIGH

01:53:44 STANDARDS AND HAVING A STRONG CRB WILL NEGATIVELY AFFECT

01:53:47 MORALE IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

01:53:48 I KNOW TPD.

01:53:50 TPD DOESN'T -- THEY KNOW WHO THE BAD APPLES ARE AND THEY

01:53:54 DON'T LIKE THOSE BAD APPLES.

01:53:56 AND IF THE CRB GETS RID OF SOME OF THOSE BAD APPLES I'M

01:53:59 CONFIDENT THAT CRB WILL BE A BETTER PLACE AND SUPPORT

01:54:03 THAT.

01:54:04 SO I HAVE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, AND PROBABLY A

01:54:07 COUPLE OF TWEAKS, AND I WANT TO ADDRESS -- I WILL GO

01:54:12 AHEAD AND TAKE IT ON MYSELF UNLESS OTHER FOLKS WANT TO.

01:54:16 I'LL ADDRESS SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE

01:54:18 EARLIER.

01:54:21 THESE TWEAKS AND THESE QUESTIONS ARE NOT RADICAL CHANGES




01:54:25 THAT WE HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF IN THE NEWSPAPER.

01:54:27 RADICAL CHANGES, MARXIST CHANGES.

01:54:30 NO.

01:54:31 ANYWAY, THE QUESTION COMES, MS. GRIMES, IS -- AND PART OF

01:54:38 THAT C-1 AND G-1, I REMEMBER READING THEM THIS WEEK, IT

01:54:42 APPEARS THAT UNDER THE PROPOSED CONDITIONS, THE BOARD CAN

01:54:46 ONLY ADDRESS CLOSED INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS WHERE TPD HAS

01:54:56 MADE A FINDING OF SUSPENSIONS, DEMOTIONS OR TERMINATIONS.

01:55:02 I APOLOGIZE FOR GETTING INTO THE WEEDS ON THIS BUT I

01:55:05 THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.

01:55:06 BUT MY QUESTION, AND MY CONCERN, GINA, IS WHAT HAPPENS

01:55:09 UNDER C-1 OR G-1 IF TPD DOES A FULL INVESTIGATION AND

01:55:16 CLOSES THEIR INVESTIGATION BUT DOESN'T HAVE A SUSPENSION,

01:55:19 DEMOTION OR TERMINATION?

01:55:21 IN OTHER WORDS, I HAVE NOTICED TO ME WHEN I READ C-1 AND

01:55:27 G-1 IT APPEARS THAT THE BOARD, THE CRB, UNDER THAT

01:55:31 CIRCUMSTANCE, WOULD NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW

01:55:36 THAT TYPE OF -- ITS OWN INVESTIGATION.

01:55:43 MR. CHAIR, I HAVE OTHERS BUT IF I CAN GET A RESPONSE FROM

01:55:47 MRS. GRIMES, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

01:55:52 >>GINA GRIMES: THE ISSUE THAT YOU WAS RAISED BY THE ACLU

01:55:55 IN ITS LETTER IS NOT ACCURATE.

01:55:58 EVEN THOUGH C-1 PROVIDES FOR REVIEW OF CLOSED

01:56:01 INVESTIGATIONS WHERE THERE'S DISCIPLINE, IF YOU LOOK AT

01:56:03 SECTION C-5, IT ALLOWS THE CRB TO REVIEW ANY COMPLAINT




01:56:12 INTERNAL AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATION INVOLVING --

01:56:18 AND IN THE COMMUNITY FOR THE CITY.

01:56:22 SO THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO REVIEW OTHER CASES UNDER C-5.

01:56:28 AND END THIS UNDER C-6 THEY ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO

01:56:31 REVIEW MATTERS OF INTEREST AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS

01:56:35 INVOLVING THE DEPARTMENT'S HANDLING ON AN ISSUE INCLUDING

01:56:38 REVISIONS OR ADDITIONS IN POLICIES OR PROCEDURES.

01:56:42 SO IT'S VERY BROAD IN SCOPE AS FAR AS THEIR ABILITY TO

01:56:48 REVIEW.

01:56:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: OKAY.

01:56:52 I HAD A FEELING YOU WERE GOING TO SAY THAT AND I

01:56:54 APPRECIATE THE EXPLANATION.

01:56:55 SO TO ALLOW THE BOARD TO INCLUDE A REVIEW OF PRETTY MUCH

01:57:07 CLOSED INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE

01:57:12 FINAL PUNISHMENT IS FOR THAT PARTICULAR OFFICERS, BUT I

01:57:16 KIND OF WISH WE WOULD EXPRESSLY INCLUDE THAT IN C-1 AND

01:57:21 G-1.

01:57:22 DO YOU SEE ANY HARM, MRS. GRIMES, IN INCLUDING THAT IN

01:57:24 C-1 AND G-1?

01:57:27 AS YOU SAY, WE HAVE ALREADY INCLUDED IT IN C-5 AND C-6.

01:57:32 >>GINA GRIMES: I THINK THE INTENT WAS -- AND CORRECT ME

01:57:35 IF I AM WRONG -- BUT THE INTENT WAS THAT CLOSED

01:57:41 INVESTIGATIONS WOULD COME DO IT CRB AND OTHER TYPES OF

01:57:45 CASES THAT THEY MAY WANT TO REVIEW WAS UP TO THE BOARD TO

01:57:48 DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO REVIEW THOSE.




01:57:50 >> [~INDISCERNIBLE~].

01:58:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: BUT THESE OTHER ONES MIGHT SLIP

01:58:03 THROUGH THE CRACKS AND I THINK THE OTHER ONES MIGHT BE

01:58:06 THE MORE IMPORTANT ONES WHERE IF THE COMMUNITY AND CRB

01:58:09 DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE CHIEF'S

01:58:13 DECISION TO NOT HAVE ANY AT ALL, I WOULD THINK THOSE

01:58:21 MIGHT BE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT. ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE

01:58:23 YOUR ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

01:58:27 >>GINA GRIMES: I'M SORRY, I CAN'T TELL IF YOU HEARD ME OR

01:58:30 NOT.

01:58:30 BUT YOU KNOW THAT THEY WILL HAVE A COMPLAINT TRACKING

01:58:34 SYSTEM SO THEY WILL GET TO SEE EACH AND EVERY COMPLAINT

01:58:37 AS IT COMES IN, AND THEN AS IT GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS,

01:58:42 SO FROM THE INCEPTION IF THERE'S A COMPLAINT THAT THEY

01:58:45 ARE INTERESTED IN, THEY CAN CERTAINLY IDENTIFY THAT, AND

01:58:48 ASK TO REVIEW IT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS

01:58:53 CLOSED.

01:58:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I UNDERSTAND THE TRACKING SYSTEM.

01:58:58 I JUST THINK THAT YOU HAVE OPINED SOMETHING VERY

01:59:01 IMPORTANT TODAY.

01:59:02 I THINK IT SHOULD BE CODIFIED TO EXPRESSLY TELL THIS

01:59:05 BOARD, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THOSE OTHER TYPES OF CASES,

01:59:10 NOT IMPLICIT IN YOUR OTHER POWERS BUT EXPRESSED.

01:59:14 SO THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

01:59:17 MY ONLY OTHER QUESTION, AND THEN I WILL GET ON TO A




01:59:20 POTENTIAL MOTION, MR. CHAIRMAN, IS THIS ISSUE IN E-1-F

01:59:27 WHICH HAS TO DO WITH QUALIFICATIONS OF BOARD MEMBERS.

01:59:32 AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE INTENT HERE IS.

01:59:34 BECAUSE E-1-F IS REALLY CONFUSING TO ME.

01:59:37 AS A MATTER OF FACT, I CALLED ANOTHER ATTORNEY DURING THE

01:59:40 BREAK WHEN I READ HIM THAT, AND I SAID, WHAT DO YOU MAKE

01:59:43 OF THIS?

01:59:44 AND IT TOOK US LIKE 20 MINUTES TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT

01:59:48 YOU SAID.

01:59:49 BUT BASICALLY, ON THE QUALIFICATION ISSUE, IT SPEAKS TO

01:59:53 WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY IS ARRESTED FOR A FELONY, AND

01:59:57 THEN -- AND I AGREE, IF SOMEBODY HAS A FELONY CONVICTION

02:00:06 OR IF THEY HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY, I DON'T THINK

02:00:08 WE WANT THEM ON THIS BOARD.

02:00:10 I'M FINE WITH THAT.

02:00:11 BUT MY THOUGHT NEEDS TO BE IN THE ORDINANCE HAD TO DO

02:00:15 WITH MISDEMEANORS, AND IT DISTURBS ME GREATLY BECAUSE IF

02:00:19 SOMEBODY GETS ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR, LET'S SAY FOR

02:00:22 ARGUMENT SAKE FOR PROTESTING OUT ON THE STREET, AND WE

02:00:26 HEARD PEOPLE GOT ARRESTED FOR, DOES THAT POTENTIALLY

02:00:31 DISQUALIFY THEM?

02:00:32 I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

02:00:34 HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT MISDEMEANORS?

02:00:36 IT'S NOT CLEAR IN E-1-F AND I WOULD LIKE TO BE SEE US

02:00:40 CLEAN THAT UP SO IT'S ABUNDANTLY CLEAR WHAT THE




02:00:43 QUALIFICATIONS ARE AS RELATED TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN

02:00:45 ARRESTED AND/OR CONVICTED FOR MISDEMEANORS, ARE THEY

02:00:49 AUTOMATICALLY EXCLUDED FROM THIS?

02:00:54 THAT'S MY QUESTION.

02:00:55 AND THEN I WILL GET ONTO THE REST OF THEM.

02:01:00 >>GINA GRIMES: I WANT TO SAY THAT CHANGE THAT WE MADE --

02:01:05 >> COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, E-1-F STEMMED FROM

02:01:10 CONVERSATIONS WITH THE ACLU, THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THIS

02:01:16 ORDINANCE, OR THE FIRST DRAFT OF ORDINANCE, WAS THAT NO

02:01:19 ONE BEEN ARRESTED WAS GOING TO SERVE ON THE BOARD AT ALL

02:01:24 AND THE ACLU WAS ARGUING THE POINT DIFFERENT KIND OF

02:01:28 CRIMES, ET CETERA, A PERSON MAY BE CONVICTED OF THAT WILL

02:01:32 KEEP THEM FROM SERVING.

02:01:33 SO THIS WAS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO STRIKE SOME BALANCE THAT

02:01:38 THE BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE UNBIASED.

02:01:42 SOME ARRESTED BY THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, ONE WOULD

02:01:45 THINK, PROBABLY HAS A LAW BIAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN

02:01:49 ARRESTED SO THE INTENT WAS IF YOU HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY

02:01:52 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU CAN'T SERVE FOR TWO YEARS

02:01:54 WITHIN THAT TIME FRAME, WHETHER IT WAS A FELONY OR A

02:01:58 MISDEMEANOR.

02:01:59 AND WE MADE IT SPECIFIC TO TRY AND CAPTURE THOSE PEOPLE

02:02:03 THAT THE ACLU WAS CONCERNED WILL BE PREVENTED FROM

02:02:06 APPLYING TO SERVE ON THE BOARD.

02:02:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: WHAT IF YOU GOT ARRESTED FOR A




02:02:13 MISDEMEANOR AND THEN YOU WERE TWO WEEKS LATER THE JUDGE

02:02:17 DROPPED THE CHARGE, YOU WERE PRECLUDED BY THAT MISTAKEN

02:02:20 ARREST FROM SERVING FOR TWO YEARS.

02:02:22 I DON'T THINK THAT --

02:02:29 >>URSULA RICHARDSON: TO SAY IT WAS MISTAKEN, WHATEVER

02:02:33 TRAIL DATE YOU HAVE AS A PERSON LEGALLY ARRESTED BY THE

02:02:36 POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE SAME THING AS IF YOU HAVE SUED THE

02:02:41 POLICE DEPARTMENT OR -- AGAINST THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND

02:02:50 YOU ARE NOT TOTALLY PRECLUDED FROM SERVING, BUT WHEN THE

02:02:56 EVENT HAPPENED AND YOUR SERVICE, THAT WILL BE AT LEAST A

02:02:59 BIT MORE COMFORT ABOUT YOUR POTENTIAL NEUTRALITY.

02:03:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A POLITIC QUESTION THAT COUNCIL

02:03:10 SHOULD WRESTLE WITH, THAT'S CORRECT?

02:03:13 IT'S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

02:03:15 NOT EVEN A CHARTER QUESTION.

02:03:17 IT'S A POLICY QUESTION.

02:03:22 >>GINA GRIMES: THERE ARE A LOT OF POLICY ISSUES IN THIS

02:03:23 ORDINANCE, AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THEM.

02:03:25 I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

02:03:28 YOU DON'T LIKE THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT BEING INVOLVED IN

02:03:30 POLICY, NOR DO WE LET -- BE INVOLVED IN LEGAL ISSUES.

02:03:37 SO I RESPECT IT.

02:03:40 THERE'S A SIMILAR DISQUALIFICATION FOR ANYONE WITHIN THE

02:03:43 LAST FEW YEARS THAT SERVES, IS EMPLOYED BY TPD OR ANY

02:03:47 OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.




02:03:49 THEY ALSO ARE NOT GOING TO BE PERMITTED TO BE ON THE CRB

02:03:56 FOR THAT TWO-YEAR PERIOD, AND THE INTENT BEHIND ALL OF

02:04:00 THESE QUALIFICATION AND DISQUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS IS

02:04:02 TO CREATE A NEUTRAL BOARD AS POSSIBLE.

02:04:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: GOT IT.

02:04:10 OKAY.

02:04:11 MR. CHAIRMAN, LET ME GET TO THE MEAT OF IT.

02:04:17 IN REGARD TO THE SELECTION OF MEMBERS, I CAN'T REMEMBER,

02:04:21 I THINK IT WAS --

02:04:24 >>> ARE YOU GOING TO BE MAKING MOTIONS NOW OR JUST

02:04:26 DISCUSSION?

02:04:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'M MAKING SOME MOTIONS.

02:04:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WELL, WE HAVE COUNCILMAN VIERA,

02:04:34 COUNCILMAN CARLSON, AND THEN WE CAN GO TO YOU.

02:04:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: WELL, LET ME COMMENT THEN ON THE

02:04:41 MOTIONS JUST AS A SUGGESTION.

02:04:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT.

02:04:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: COUNCILMAN VIERA, IN REGARD TO THE

02:04:47 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY.

02:04:49 BUT OUR CITY ATTORNEY HAS WRITTEN US AND SPOKEN FAIRLY

02:04:54 ADAMANTLY THAT SHE BELIEVES THAT'S A CHARTER ISSUE AND

02:04:57 POTENTIALLY CONFLICTS WITH HER ROLE IN CITY GOVERNMENT,

02:05:03 AND I DON'T MEAN TO SPEAK FOR YOU, MRS. GRIMES, BUT I

02:05:06 THINK THAT'S WHAT I READ AND I THINK I HEARD YOU SAY IN

02:05:09 THE PAST.




02:05:09 SO MR. VIERA, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST ON THAT ONE, IF YOU

02:05:12 WANT TO MAKE A MOTION, IS THAT WE MAKE A MOTION DIRECTING

02:05:16 MR. SHELBY TO DRAFT A CHARTER LANGUAGE, AND THAT THAT

02:05:21 ISSUE WOULD COME UP ON THE NEXT ELECTION, PROBABLY THE

02:05:27 NEXT ELECTION, WILL THAT BE 2022?

02:05:32 THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY THAT CITY VOTERS HAVE TO GO TO THE

02:05:35 POLLS.

02:05:35 AND SO I THINK THAT -- BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GO

02:05:41 CROSSWISE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.

02:05:45 I THINK WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON ALL THESE ISSUES.

02:05:47 AND WE DON'T NEED TO -- BUT I THINK IF THE VOTERS DECIDE

02:05:54 IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO HAVE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, PUT IT

02:05:56 ON THE CHARTER AS A CHARTER AMENDMENT, AND LET THE VOTERS

02:05:59 DECIDE.

02:05:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. DINGFELDER, IN REFERENCE TO THAT,

02:06:08 YOU HAVE TWO GOOD POINTS THERE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE,

02:06:11 BECAUSE THAT COULD BE A WHILE, TO MAKE SURE WE ARE GOING

02:06:13 TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS THAT WE STILL ALLOW THE

02:06:16 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO

02:06:18 WORK WITH THEM.

02:06:20 THAT WAS JUST A SUGGESTION, SIR.

02:06:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I DON'T KNOW, I WOULD HAVE TO

02:06:31 PROBABLY GET WITH MRS. GRIMES ON WHAT HER PREFERENCE IS

02:06:35 ON THAT.

02:06:35 I DO WANT TO GIVE DEFERENCE TO HER AS RELATED TO THE ROLE




02:06:41 OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CHARTER.

02:06:43 I THINK IT'S UP FOR ARGUMENT.

02:06:48 I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE FRAMEWORK THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY

02:06:50 HAS PROVIDED AT THIS POINT IN TIME, AS LONG AS WE HAVE A

02:06:56 MOTION TO PUT THIS ON A POTENTIAL CHARTER AMENDMENT.

02:07:04 SO IT'S SORT OF ANOTHER COMPROMISE THERE.

02:07:13 >>GINA GRIMES: CAN I ADDRESS THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN?

02:07:16 MAY I ADDRESS THAT?

02:07:17 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

02:07:18 GO AHEAD.

02:07:19 >>GINA GRIMES: I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING.

02:07:22 THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND

02:07:25 OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

02:07:27 MR. DINGFELDER, YOU ARE CORRECT THAT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL

02:07:30 IS NOT SOMETHING UNDER THE CURRENT CHARTER THAT CAN BE

02:07:34 PROVIDED.

02:07:35 THE CURRENT CHARTER PROVIDES THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS

02:07:38 THE LEGAL ADVISER TO ALL DEPARTMENTS AND BOARDS.

02:07:43 THE CRB IS A CITY BOARD.

02:07:46 SO BY CHARTER, THE CITY ATTORNEY WOULD BE THE ATTORNEY

02:07:50 FOR THE CRB.

02:07:56 THE CHARTER ALSO SAYS UNDER 5.01 SUBPARAGRAPH A, IT SAYS

02:08:03 THE DUTY OF THE CITY ATTORNEY TO TAKE MANAGEMENT AND

02:08:05 CONTROL OVER ALL LEGAL AFFAIRS OF THE CITY.

02:08:08 AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE ALL BOARDS OF THE CHARTER OF




02:08:13 THE CITY POTENTIALLY EXPOSE THE CITY TO LIABILITY.

02:08:17 SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FROM

02:08:22 MANAGEMENT CONTROL OVER ALL LEGAL AFFAIRS OF THE CITY TO

02:08:25 ENSURE THAT THOSE BOARDS THAT MAY ACT INDEPENDENTLY DON'T

02:08:31 EXPOSE THE CITY TO LIABILITY.

02:08:36 EMPLOYING OUTSIDE COUNSEL IS PART OF THE LEGAL AFFAIRS OF

02:08:39 THE CITY.

02:08:40 I BELIEVE THAT THE ISSUE OF INDEPENDENT COUNSELOR OUTSIDE

02:08:45 COUNSEL WAS RAISED BECAUSE SINCE 2015 THE ATTORNEY FOR

02:08:53 TPD HAS BEEN THE ATTORNEY FOR THE CRB.

02:08:55 BUT WE PROPOSED IN THIS DRAFT IS INSTEAD TO HAVE A

02:09:01 SEPARATE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, AND I WILL ZERO

02:09:09 INTRODUCE CARL R OBY WHO JOINED US FROM PINELLAS, AND IN

02:09:16 A IF A AFFILIATION WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, DOES NO

02:09:20 WORK FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, ETC. FROM PINELLAS COUNTY

02:09:24 AND PRACTICED THERE FOR 30 YEARS, IN GOVERNMENT LAW, JUST

02:09:28 THE KIND OF ATTORNEY THAT IF I HAD TO HIRE OUTSIDE

02:09:30 COUNSEL THAT I WOULD HIRE.

02:09:34 HE'S MORE THAN QUALIFIED TO BE AN INDEPENDENT ADVISER TO

02:09:39 THE CRB, AND SO THAT'S WHY THE PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU TODAY

02:09:44 PROVIDES FOR THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY TO SERVE AS

02:09:49 LEGAL ADVISER TO THE CRB BUT NONE OF THE ATTORNEYS HIGH

02:09:53 PRESSURE ANY AFFILIATION OR DOES ANY WORK FOR THE POLICE

02:09:56 DEPARTMENT, AND ALSO PROVIDES SHOULD CONFLICT ARISE

02:10:01 BETWEEN THE CRB AND THE CITY THAT OUTSIDE COUNSEL COULD




02:10:06 THEN BE ENGAGED IF IT WAS A LEGAL CONFLICT.

02:10:11 SO I BELIEVE THE PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE IN THIS CURRENT

02:10:17 DRAFT ADDRESSES THE CONCERN OF WANTING SOME INDEPENDENT

02:10:22 INDIVIDUAL ATTORNEY TO ADVISE THE BOARD, NOT AN ATTORNEY

02:10:27 THAT ADVISES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND IF FOR SOME

02:10:30 REASON THERE WOULD BE A CONFLICT THAT WE STILL HAVE THE

02:10:33 OPTION OF HIRING OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

02:10:36 BUT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IS NOT SOMETHING PERMITTED UNDER

02:10:38 THE CHARTER.

02:10:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: MR. CHAIRMAN, I WILL JUST FOLLOW UP.

02:10:44 THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION, MRS. GRIMES.

02:10:46 I'M PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THE DIRECTION THAT YOU HAVE

02:10:50 SUGGESTED ON THIS.

02:10:51 AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE RATIONALE.

02:10:54 I'M NOT BUTTING HEADS WITH YOU TO SAY WE SHOULD DO THIS

02:10:56 TODAY.

02:10:57 WHAT I AM DOING IS SUGGESTION TO MR. VIERA, BECAUSE I

02:11:01 THINK THERE IS POTENTIAL CONFLICT EVERY SINGLE DAY THAT

02:11:07 THAT BOARD MEATS IF YOU HAVE INSIDE COUNSEL.

02:11:11 AND IF IT'S NOT AN ACTUAL INHERENT CONFLICT, IT'S THE

02:11:16 PERCEPTION OF CONFLICT.

02:11:18 AND SO, THEREFORE, I WOULD SUGGEST, MR. VIERA, THAT WE

02:11:25 LET THE VOTERS DECIDE, IF THEY THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WE'LL

02:11:28 PUT IT ON THE BALLOT AMENDMENT WHICH WE HAVE THE POWER TO

02:11:31 DO AND LET THE VOTERS DECIDE THAT.




02:11:32 AND WHEN WE ARE ALL SAID AND DONE, MR. CHAIRMAN, WELL, I

02:11:37 WOULD LIKE -- I WILL STEP ASIDE NOW AND LET EVERYBODY

02:11:41 MAKE WHATEVER MOTIONS THEY WANT TO MAKE.

02:11:43 MR. GUDES, I THINK YOUR MOTION IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT

02:11:46 THIS NEW ORDINANCE SUPERSEDE ALL THE OLD ORDINANCE

02:11:49 COMPLETELY.

02:11:52 IN REGARD TO THE NUMBER OF FOLKS THAT ARE ON THAT SERVE

02:11:57 ON THIS, I AGREE WITH MR. CARLSON THAT EACH COUNCILMEMBER

02:12:02 SHOULD APPOINT ONE, WHICH IS SEVEN, AND THAT THE MAYOR

02:12:06 CAN APPOINT FOUR, INCLUDING THE NAACP PERSON.

02:12:11 I THINK THAT WILL TIP THE SCALES BACK TOWARD THE

02:12:14 COMMUNITY A LITTLE BIT MORE AND AWAY FROM THE MAYOR'S

02:12:17 OFFICE.

02:12:17 AND AGAIN, NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS MAYOR.

02:12:19 I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MR. BRODY.

02:12:23 WHEN WE MAKE THESE CHANGES, IT'S FOREVER.

02:12:25 I MEAN NOT FOREVER, BUT HOPEFULLY IT'S FOR THE NEXT FIVE,

02:12:29 TEN, 15, 20 YEARS.

02:12:31 IT'S NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUAL.

02:12:32 NOT ABOUT MR. BRODY OR MS. GRIMES OR THE MAYOR OR

02:12:35 ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

02:12:36 THIS IS LONG-TERM. ANYWAY, I'LL STEP ASIDE F.YOU CAN

02:12:39 COME BACK TO ME AT THE VERY END, MR. CHAIRMAN, PROBABLY

02:12:43 HAVE ONE MORE MOTION.

02:12:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: VERY GOOD.




02:12:45 COUNCILMAN VIERA, SIR.

02:12:46 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

02:12:49 I APPRECIATE IT.

02:12:50 YOU KNOW, FOR ME, IT DEPENDS WHAT THE MEANING IS, SO TO

02:12:58 SPEAK.

02:12:59 COUNSEL IS ALWAYS INDEPENDENT, SHOULD BE.

02:13:01 AND MIND YOU, I WANT TO BE CLEAR, WE HAVE NO REASON TO

02:13:04 BELIEVE THAT ANY COUNCIL FROM THE -- COUNSEL FROM THE

02:13:08 CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WOULD NOT BE INDEPENDENT, ETHICAL,

02:13:11 ET CETERA.

02:13:11 THERE'S A PERCEPTION WHICH I WANT TO TALK ABOUT, THAT I

02:13:14 THINK IS IMPORTANT.

02:13:15 BUT I THINK ABOUT THE WORK THAT I HAVE DONE, I HAVE

02:13:18 ALWAYS DONE CIVIL DEFENSE WORK AND OFTEN I AM RETAINED BY

02:13:21 INSURANCE COMPANIES, PAID BY THEM TO REPRESENT THEIR

02:13:23 INSUREDS IN ACCIDENTS.

02:13:24 LET'S SAY IT'S A MILLION DOLLAR POLICY, AND I'M PAID BY X

02:13:29 CARRIER TO REPRESENT THEIR INSURED, MY FIDELITY IS NOT TO

02:13:33 THE INSURANCE CARRIER, SHOULD NEVER BE, IT'S TO THEIR

02:13:36 INSURED, MY CLIENT, SO THAT'S AN ISSUE OF FIDELITY.

02:13:40 THAT BEING SAID, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHEN I SERVED ON

02:13:43 THE CIVIL SERVICE REVIEW BOARD, WE HAD MR. DELENOR

02:13:45 STEWART AS OUR ATTORNEY, I BELIEVE RIGHT NOW THERESA

02:13:51 JEAN-PIERRE COY, I BELIEVE, IS THEIR ATTORNEY NOW.

02:13:56 SO OUTSIDE COUNSEL -- WHEN I SAY I DO NOT BELIEVE, I MEAN




02:14:00 NOT FROM LEGAL RESEARCH, I AM NOT READ TO BELIEVE THAT

02:14:03 WOULD REQUIRE ANYTHING AS LARGE AS A CHARTER AMENDMENT

02:14:06 AND TAKING THINGS TO VOTERS, THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS

02:14:08 LOOKING FOR.

02:14:09 AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.

02:14:10 THIS CAN BE MERELY DONE THROUGH A TWEAK IN THE MOTION.

02:14:13 WHAT I AM LOOKING AT, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THERE'S

02:14:16 EXPENSES INVOLVED WITHIN THIS, ET CETERA, NO MORE --

02:14:21 CONTRACTED OUT NO MORE THAN TEN HOURS A MONTH, SAVE WITH

02:14:24 THE CONSENT OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AT $150 AN

02:14:27 HOUR.

02:14:28 THAT'S WHAT I AM SEEKING.

02:14:29 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE MEETINGS GO SIGNIFICANTLY MORE

02:14:35 THAN THAT.

02:14:36 MAYBE THEY DO.

02:14:38 IF THEY DO I WILL BE ENLIGHTENED ON THAT VERY SURE SOON,

02:14:42 I AM SURE.

02:14:43 SO I WILL BE MAKING THAT MOTION.

02:14:46 >>GINA GRIMES: I NEED TO ADDRESS THE CHANGES THAT YOU ARE

02:14:49 MAKING BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD.

02:14:52 I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU NOW, BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL

02:14:55 CHANGES THAT I AM GOING TO NEED TO ADDRESS.

02:14:59 THAT IS ONE OF THEM.

02:15:01 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD, MS. GRIMES.

02:15:13 >>GINA GRIMES: AS FAR AS AN ORDINANCE DIRECTING THE CITY




02:15:16 ATTORNEY TO HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, AS YOU KNOW, THAT'S

02:15:22 OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF COUNCIL'S AUTHORITY TO DIRECT THE

02:15:25 AFFAIRS OF ANY DEPARTMENT, UNLESS IT'S EXPRESSLY PROVIDED

02:15:28 FOR IN THE CHARTER.

02:15:32 NOW, THAT INCLUDES DIRECTING THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

02:15:35 TO HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, AND FURTHERMORE, I THINK IT

02:15:41 WOULD BE INACCURATE TO ASSUME THAT THE ATTORNEY IS ONLY

02:15:45 GOING TO BE WORKING TEN HOURS A MONTH.

02:15:47 A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE IN ORDER TO

02:15:50 TRAIN THE BOARD MEMBERS AS TO THEIR DUTIES AND

02:15:54 RESPONSIBILITIES, FAR MORE THAN TEN HOURS A MONTH.

02:15:58 AND I DON'T KNOW ANY ATTORNEY THAT I AM GOING TO BE ABLE

02:16:00 TO HIRE FOR $150 AN HOUR.

02:16:03 SO WHILE IT SOUNDS GOOD, I DON'T THINK IT'S PRACTICAL AT

02:16:06 ALL.

02:16:07 BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD AGREE

02:16:10 TO.

02:16:10 I -- WE AGREE TO -- AND AGAIN, WE ARE GOING BACK TO WHAT

02:16:14 THE CHARTER SAYS, THAT YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MANAGE

02:16:18 THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AND THAT IS THE CITY ATTORNEY -- WE

02:16:22 GO BACK TO WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DIRECT THE AFFAIRS OF

02:16:27 THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AND WE CAN'T, AND UNANIMOUS MORE

02:16:31 THAN YOU CAN DIRECT THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

02:16:34 OTHER THAN CHARTER.

02:16:35 AND THAT'S WHY THE MAYOR'S CONSENT AND APPROVAL IS




02:16:38 SOMETHING THAT'S REQUIRED WITH RESPECT TO THESE CHANGES.

02:16:42 SO I JUST NEED TO GO ON RECORD AS SAYING THAT.

02:16:47 THE OTHER ISSUES THAT YOU BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE

02:16:49 APPOINTMENTS, I CAN ADDRESS AT THE END, AFTER EVERYBODY'S

02:16:53 COMMENTS.

02:16:54 >>LUIS VIERA: MAY I, MR. CHAIR?

02:16:59 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD.

02:16:59 >>LUIS VIERA: AND MRS. GRIMES POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN.

02:17:02 AGAIN I WANT TO MAKE SURE WITH REGARDS TO THE HOUR OVER A

02:17:05 CERTAIN AMOUNT WOULD BE AT MS. GRIMES DISCRETION.

02:17:08 THERE ARE CERTAIN MOMENTS IN WHICH MORE WOULD BE

02:17:10 REQUIRED, MAYBE LESS WOULD BE REQUIRED, BUT IN REGARD TO

02:17:12 THE 150, COULD BE 160, 165.

02:17:15 THERE ARE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE ARE MANY ATTORNEYS IN

02:17:17 THE AREA OF INSURANCE LITIGATION WHO WORK IN THE 150

02:17:20 RANGE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD

02:17:23 ATTORNEY IS PAID, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THERE ARE IF YOU GO TO

02:17:27 SOME OF THESE INSURANCE DEFENSE LAW FIRMS, AND WHATNOT,

02:17:30 WITH REGARDS TO THE APPOINTMENTS, YOU KNOW, COUNCILMAN

02:17:33 CARLSON WISHES TO MAKE A MOTION IN THAT REGARD.

02:17:36 MY POSITION IN THAT REGARD -- AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

02:17:40 I WILL GET TO THAT WHEN COUNCILMAN CARLSON TALKS ABOUT

02:17:42 IT.

02:17:43 SO I WILL LET HIM MAKE THE MOTION BUT I HAVE A POSITION

02:17:45 IN THAT REGARD.




02:17:46 BUT MY MOTION WOULD BE TO DIRECT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE

02:17:51 CAN AS A TAMPA CITY COUNCIL, WITH REGARDS TO OUTSIDE

02:17:58 COUNSEL FOR THIS BOARD WITH FISCAL RESTRAINTS THAT ARE

02:18:01 AGREED UPON WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

02:18:04 AGAIN, VERY TINY CHANGE, BUT THAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY

02:18:08 SIGNIFICANT.

02:18:08 THANK YOU.

02:18:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN --

02:18:13 >>GINA GRIMES: NOT TO REQUEST, RIGHT?

02:18:15 YOU CANNOT DIRECT THE AFFAIRS OF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT WHO

02:18:21 LEAD THE DEPARTMENT WITH REGARD TO OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

02:18:25 IT'S NOT PERMITTED UNDER THE CHARTER.

02:18:28 >>LUIS VIERA: LET ME ASK OUR OWN COUNSEL, MR. SHELBY.

02:18:31 MAY I DO THAT AS A REQUEST OR A CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE,

02:18:35 SIR?

02:18:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WELL, YOU CERTAINLY -- CLEARLY CAN DO

02:18:39 IT UNDER A REQUEST.

02:18:41 AND IF YOU DO DO IT AS DIRECTING, THEN YOU HEARD WHAT

02:18:44 WOULD BE IN FACT A WRITTEN RESPONSE OR A RESPONSE THAT

02:18:47 WOULD COME BACK IN THE FUTURE.

02:18:49 SO GOVERNING YOURSELVES ACCORDINGLY.

02:18:52 AND OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE OR

02:18:55 NOT FOR CLARIFICATION SAKE, YOU HAD MENTIONED OTHER

02:18:59 ATTORNEYS ON OTHER BOARDS THAT WERE OUTSIDE, AND MAYBE

02:19:03 THE CLARIFICATION OR DISTINCTION THERE, BECAUSE THAT




02:19:05 MIGHT EXPLAIN WHY IT'S AVAILABLE FOR OTHER PLACES BUT

02:19:09 PERHAPS NOT FOR THIS BOARD.

02:19:11 >>LUIS VIERA: AND THANK YOU.

02:19:11 WE CAN INQUIRE ON THAT.

02:19:13 WHAT I WILL DO AT THIS TIME IS TO MAKE A DIRECTION AND

02:19:16 THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S POSITION THAT WE

02:19:19 CAN BE INFORMED OF THAT TO GO FORWARD WITH IT.

02:19:21 BUT AGAIN, WITH FISCAL CONTEXT AND RESTRAINTS TO BE

02:19:26 DETERMINED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WOULD BE MY

02:19:29 MOTION, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS DO WHAT YOU ARE GOING

02:19:32 TO DO, ET CETERA, BUT JUST MERELY HAVING AN ATTORNEY WHO

02:19:36 IS AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL OUTSIDE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S

02:19:40 OFFICE WITH FISCAL RESTRAINTS BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S

02:19:42 OFFICE SO THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE IN

02:19:46 THAT REGARD.

02:19:47 AGAIN MY RATIONALE BEING THAT A LOT OF BOARDS HERE IN THE

02:19:49 CITY OF TAMPA, WHETHER BY STATUTE OR THE OTHER MEANS,

02:19:54 HAVE THEIR OWN OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

02:19:56 VERY SMALL MINOR ISSUE.

02:19:58 >>GINA GRIMES: THE ONLY BOARDS THAT HAVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL

02:20:05 ARE THOSE BOARDS WHERE THERE'S A CONFLICT BETWEEN THE

02:20:09 CITY AND THE DUTY OF THE BOARD.

02:20:12 AND I PROVIDED THE FACT IN THIS DRAFT THAT IF THERE IS A

02:20:17 CONFLICT BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE DUTIES OF THE BOARD,

02:20:20 THEN WE WOULD ENGAGE OUTSIDE COUNSEL.




02:20:24 AND WHERE THE CITY IS ACTUALLY PRACTICING A CASE IN FRONT

02:20:29 OF THAT BOARD.

02:20:29 >>LUIS VIERA: SURE.

02:20:31 AND I MAY HAVE MISSPOKEN BY THE WORD "MANY" BUT CORRECT

02:20:36 ME IF I AM WRONG, DOES OUR CIVIL SERVICE BOARD NOT HAVE

02:20:38 OUTSIDE SEPARATE OUTSIDE COUNSEL WHO IS RETAINED AND PAID

02:20:41 BY THE HOUR?

02:20:42 >> YES, BECAUSE IF THERE IS A CONFLICT BETWEEN THE

02:20:45 POSITION OF THE CITY AND THE DUTIES OF THE BOARD.

02:20:47 THE BOARD IS MAKING A DECISION AND THE CITY IS

02:20:51 PROSECUTING EFFECTIVELY A CASE BEFORE THAT BOARD.

02:20:53 SO THERE IS A LEGAL CONFLICT.

02:20:58 >>LUIS VIERA: I'LL WITHDRAW THEN THE RATIONALE FOR IT IN

02:21:00 TERMS OF OTHER BOARDS, BUT I STILL THINK EVEN IF YOU TAKE

02:21:04 ASIDE MY APPARENTLY INCORRECT ASSUMPTION FOR THE

02:21:08 RATIONALE FOR THE SERVICE BOARD HAVING THEIR OWN

02:21:11 ATTORNEY, I STILL THINK GIVEN THE APPEARANCE TO BE SUCH

02:21:14 SENSITIVE ISSUES TO THE PUBLIC OF A CONFLICT THAT THAT

02:21:17 WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE SENSE AND MY MOTION STANDS, ALBEIT

02:21:20 WITH A DIFFERENT RATIONALE.

02:21:21 >>ORLANDO GUDES: SO I CAN CLEAR MY HEAD.

02:21:25 MR. SHELBY IS THE CITY COUNCIL OUTSIDE COUNSEL, CORRECT?

02:21:33 MRS. GRIMES?

02:21:35 >>GINA GRIMES: YES.

02:21:37 HE'S NOT OUTSIDE COUNSEL; HE'S AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY OF




02:21:38 TAMPA.

02:21:49 SAME AS MR. BRODY WOULD BE.

02:21:53 AS YOU ALL MAY RECALL, I EVEN OFFERED MR. SHELBY THE

02:21:56 OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THIS POSITION AS THE ATTORNEY FOR THE

02:22:00 CRB, BUT HE DECLINED FROM PERCEIVED CONFLICT.

02:22:05 AND THAT'S WHY WE THEN FOLLOWED WITH ANOTHER ASSISTANT

02:22:10 CITY ATTORNEY, AND WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE LEGAL ADVICE

02:22:13 TO THE CRB.

02:22:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I RECALL.

02:22:17 I WAS JUST ASKING.

02:22:18 I LIKE THE WAY MR. SHELBY DOES BUSINESS, REGARDLESS OF

02:22:21 WHATEVER CONFLICTS HE MAY HAVE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S

02:22:24 OFFICE, THE INTERPRETATION, HE MAKES SURE THE CITY

02:22:27 COUNCIL IS AWARE OF HIS RESPONSIBILITIES AND ROLES AND

02:22:30 RIGHTS.

02:22:30 SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW I WAS LOOKING AT IT AND TRYING TO

02:22:33 GET A CLARIFICATION, MR. SHELBY VERSUS WHAT MR. VIERA OR

02:22:37 WHAT MR. DINGFELDER WAS TALKING ABOUT.

02:22:39 I YIELD BACK.

02:22:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'M SORRY, BUT TO FOLLOW UP, COUNCILMAN

02:22:44 GUDES, BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT UP AN INTERESTING POINT.

02:22:46 THAT PROVISION FOR CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY IS EXPRESSLY

02:22:50 STATED IN YOUR CHARTER, THAT'S A CHARTER CREATED

02:22:54 PROVISION.

02:22:54 >>GINA GRIMES: RIGHT.




02:22:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND THAT SETS FORTH THE DUTIES AND

02:23:00 RESPONSIBILITIES ALSO HONOR IN FACT THE CITY COUNCIL

02:23:04 ATTORNEY ANSWERS TO, SO THAT'S ALL SET FORTH IN THE

02:23:08 CHARTER.

02:23:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES: AND I THINK YOUR POSITION IS BY THIS

02:23:15 COUNCIL, CORRECT?

02:23:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I WAS HIRED BY THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL,

02:23:19 AND I AM IN FACT AS MS. GRIMES STATED, AN EMPLOYEE OF THE

02:23:23 CITY, BUT MY DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ARE SET FORTH IN

02:23:26 THE CHARTER, AND YOU ARE MY CLIENTS, AND YOU ARE THE ONLY

02:23:29 PEOPLE WITHIN THIS CITY I ANSWER TO.

02:23:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU, SIR.

02:23:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: JUST A FEW QUESTIONS.

02:23:36 THE GENTLEMAN'S NAME IS MR. BRODY, CORRECT?

02:23:42 >>GINA GRIMES: CORRECT.

02:23:43 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: AND HE WOULD BE DEDICATED TO

02:23:47 STRICTLY THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD?

02:23:51 I'M SORRY, CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD?

02:23:55 >>GINA GRIMES: YES.

02:23:56 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: OKAY.

02:23:57 NOW, THE GENTLEMAN --

02:23:59 >>GINA GRIMES: MR. BRODY IS RIGHT HERE.

02:24:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THE GENTLEMAN IS FROM PINELLAS, HAS

02:24:05 BEEN THERE 30 YEARS, HAS NO TIES TO THE POLICE

02:24:08 DEPARTMENT, AND IF I REMEMBER, I WASN'T HERE, BUT FROM




02:24:10 WHAT I WAS TOLD WHEN MR. SHELBY WAS ONE OF THE APPLICANTS

02:24:13 FOR THE POSITION HERE AT TAMPA CITY COUNCIL, HE MAY OR

02:24:17 MAY NOT HAVE SAID -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT WORDS

02:24:20 WERE -- I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THE FIGHT, I'M NOT FROM

02:24:22 HERE.

02:24:23 SO I AM LOOKING AT IT AS THIS GENTLEMAN IS FROM PINELLAS,

02:24:26 HE'S NOT IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE

02:24:28 POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO BIAS IN THAT

02:24:35 SENSE BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY INDEPENDENT, BEING THAT -- HE'S

02:24:40 ANOTHER SET OF EYES THAT ARE LOOKING AT THIS FROM THE

02:24:42 OUTSIDE, IN MANY WAYS.

02:24:45 THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

02:24:49 COUNCILMAN VIERA.

02:24:50 >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, YOU KNOW, THE MOTION MERELY

02:24:53 MAKES THE REQUEST, AND WE CAN HAVE THE DIALOGUE BETWEEN

02:24:57 NOW AND THE READING OF THE ORDINANCE AND WHATNOT WHERE WE

02:25:03 CAN HAVE A MORE ROBUST DISCUSSION ON SOME OF THE

02:25:05 IMPLICATIONS OF THIS, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL, BUT MY MOTION

02:25:09 STILL STANDS.

02:25:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MR. SHELBY.

02:25:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THE SECOND TO THE MOTION?

02:25:15 I'M SORRY.

02:25:15 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NOT YET.

02:25:16 COUNCILMAN VIERA MADE A MOTION.

02:25:18 IS THERE A SECOND?




02:25:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES: CAN YOU RESTATE THE MOTION?

02:25:21 >>LUIS VIERA: SURE.

02:25:22 MY MOTION IS TO HAVE -- STRIKE THAT -- TO HAVE CITY

02:25:25 COUNCIL REQUEST THAT THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD UNDER THE

02:25:30 AMENDED ORDINANCE HAS ITS OWN SEPARATE PRIVATELY

02:25:34 CONTRACTED REVIEW ATTORNEY WITH FISCAL CONSTRAINTS TO BE

02:25:38 CREATED AND GOVERNED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

02:25:40 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN

02:25:43 VIERA, A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

02:25:45 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, I THINK I SEE YOUR HAND, SIR.

02:25:49 COUNCILMAN MIRANDA AS WELL.

02:25:51 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, THEN MIRANDA.

02:25:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I DON'T MEAN TO BELABOR THIS.

02:25:55 I WAS GOING TO SECOND THE MOTION JUST BECAUSE I THINK

02:25:59 PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THINGS TO BE VOTED

02:26:03 ON.

02:26:03 BUT I AM NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THE MOTION JUST BECAUSE I

02:26:05 KNEW WE WERE GOING TO RUN INTO THIS ISSUE FOR THE CITY

02:26:09 ATTORNEY'S CHARTER OF POWERS AND MRS. GRIMES FEELS VERY

02:26:12 STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

02:26:13 I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO GET RESOLVED BETWEEN NOW AND

02:26:15 EVER, BECAUSE OF HOW STRONGLY SHE FEELS ABOUT IT FROM A

02:26:19 LEGAL PERSPECTIVE.

02:26:21 THAT'S WHY I SUGGESTED THAT ON TWO MAJOR ISSUES OF

02:26:24 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND ALSO SUBPOENA POWERS WHICH I AM




02:26:28 GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN A MINUTE THAT WE AS A BOARD, THESE

02:26:32 ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES TO THE COMMUNITY THAT CAN'T BE

02:26:35 RESOLVED WITH OUR CITY ATTORNEY, THAT BOTH OF THOSE

02:26:38 ISSUES SHOULD BE PUT ON THE BALLOT.

02:26:40 AND THAT'S WHY MR. VIERA, YOU AND I BOTH AGREE WE SHOULD

02:26:45 HAVE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, WE JUST DISAGREE ON HOW WE GET

02:26:49 THERE.

02:26:50 BUT I THINK WE LET THE COMMUNITY DECIDE THROUGH THEIR

02:26:56 BALLOT WHETHER THEY THINK IT'S IMPORTANT OR NOT.

02:27:00 I JUST WANT TO EXPLAIN WHY I WOULD VOTE NO.

02:27:02 I APOLOGIZE.

02:27:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, THEN COUNCILMAN

02:27:06 GUDES.

02:27:06 YOU ARE MUTED, SIR.

02:27:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: IF I REMEMBER WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS,

02:27:13 THE CITY ATTORNEY IS THE ATTORNEY FOR BOTH, THE

02:27:15 ADMINISTRATION AND THE CITY COUNCIL.

02:27:18 AM I CORRECT?

02:27:22 >>GINA GRIMES: THAT'S CORRECT.

02:27:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THEN GO FROM THERE, THAT'S CORRECT,

02:27:26 AND WHAT I SEE COULD BE COMING IS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE

02:27:29 ANOTHER NAIL THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE NOW, CHARTER,

02:27:38 THEIR OWN CITY ATTORNEY, AND NO MATTER HOW LONG I HAVE

02:27:41 BEEN HERE, I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE CITY ATTORNEY BE IN ANY

02:27:46 WAY BIASED.




02:27:49 MAYBE SOMEBODY THINKS DIFFERENTLY.

02:27:51 BUT TO ME, AT TIMES THEY RULED AGAINST COUNCIL MEMBERS,

02:28:04 AGAINST THEIR OWN ADMINISTRATION.

02:28:05 I HAVE SEEN BOTH SIDES.

02:28:07 AND THEN AS I UNDERSTAND WHAT I HEARD, IF I UNDERSTAND

02:28:10 EVERYTHING I HEARD, THIS CITY ATTORNEY IS SAYING THAT IT

02:28:13 IS AGAINST THE CHARTER, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE

02:28:17 TRYING TO DO.

02:28:18 BUT YET WE WANT TO DO IT.

02:28:20 SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY TO SEE WHO IS

02:28:23 WHO, AND FOR WHAT.

02:28:24 WHAT IS THE FIGHT ABOUT?

02:28:29 THEY HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL, YOU NAMED THE INDIVIDUAL, HE'S

02:28:33 EXPERIENCED HE DOES NOT WORK FOR THE TAMPA POLICE

02:28:35 DEPARTMENT, HE IS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.

02:28:44 SO WHAT AM I HERE FOR?

02:28:47 FOR OVER 40 MINUTES I HEARD TALKING ON ONE ISSUE AND WE

02:28:52 HAVEN'T DONE A DAMN THING.

02:28:54 WHAT'S WRONG WITH US?

02:28:56 FORGET ABOUT THE ATTORNEYS.

02:28:57 WHAT'S WRONG WITH US?

02:29:02 IS IT GOOD OR IS IT BAD?

02:29:05 DOES IT GO TO THE CHARTER?

02:29:06 PUT IT UP IN THE CHARTER IN THE NEXT ELECTION AND SEE

02:29:08 WHAT HAPPENS.




02:29:10 SO WHAT ARE WE DOING?

02:29:11 WE ARE GOING TO STILL MAKE THIS THING ALL DAY ALL NIGHT

02:29:14 AND COME UP WITH NOTHING?

02:29:17 LET THE PUBLIC VOTE WHEN THEY HAVE A CHANCE.

02:29:21 BUT FOR NOW, WE CAN TALK THIS UNTIL THE GREYHOUNDS COME

02:29:25 HOME.

02:29:27 AND THE GREYHOUND RUN REAL FAST.

02:29:34 SO WHERE ARE WE GOING?

02:29:36 LET'S HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE THERE.

02:29:38 AND LET'S GET THIS THING SO THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS

02:29:41 EXACTLY WHAT WE DO.

02:29:42 DON'T GET STUCK WITH THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.

02:29:46 IS IT AN IMPROVEMENT OVER THE PAST?

02:29:48 AND I AM SURE IN THE FUTURE IT WILL BE AMENDED.

02:29:51 SO WHAT? THAT'S NORMAL.

02:29:53 BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH LIFE.

02:29:56 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

02:29:57 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCILMAN

02:29:59 MIRANDA.

02:30:00 COUNCILMAN GUDES.

02:30:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES: A POINT WELL TAKEN.

02:30:04 I THINK MR. VIERA HAS A GOOD MOTION ON THE FLOOR, I THINK

02:30:08 YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A SUBSEQUENT MOTION FOR A CHARTER

02:30:11 AMENDMENT, AS MR. MIRANDA SAID, THAT'S A MOTION TO WHERE

02:30:14 WE SUPPORT THAT WE MOVE ON, BUT THEN WE CAN'T VOTE ON




02:30:20 THIS PARTICULAR THING RIGHT NOW, AND IF YOU WANT TO MAKE

02:30:26 A CHARTER AMENDMENT BALLOT, I THINK THAT'S A DIFFERENT

02:30:29 MOTION.

02:30:30 JUST MY OPINION.

02:30:30 >>LUIS VIERA: AND IF I MAY, I WILL AMEND MY MOTION.

02:30:34 BECAUSE AGAIN I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR.

02:30:36 I HAVEN'T HAD THIS PARTICULAR DISCUSSION ON THIS NARROWLY

02:30:39 TAILORED ISSUE AS TO THE CHARTER RELEVANCY WITH THE ISSUE

02:30:43 OF AN ATTORNEY.

02:30:44 SO WHAT I AM DOING MY MOTION ON IS TO MAKE THAT REQUEST

02:30:47 WITH A REPORT TO BE GIVEN TO US WHEN THIS ISSUE COMES

02:30:50 BACK TO US SO IT ISN'T CONTINUALLY LIVING ON FOREVER ON

02:30:55 WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED TO DO A CHARTER AMENDMENT, OR WHAT

02:30:58 OTHER STEPS WE NEED TO DO.

02:30:59 IF WE WANT TO GO AHEAD AND PROCEED TO GET THE BALL

02:31:03 ROLLING WITH A CHARTER AMENDMENT, THIS WILL ACTUALLY

02:31:05 BEGIN TO DO THAT, IF THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO GO.

02:31:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN

02:31:11 VIERA WITH A SECOND BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

02:31:14 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:31:14 >>LUIS VIERA: YES.

02:31:18 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

02:31:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: NO.

02:31:22 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NO.

02:31:23 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.




02:31:25 >>JOSEPH CITRO: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, NO.

02:31:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NO.

02:31:31 >>THE CLERK: MOTION FAILED WITH COUNCILMEMBER MIRANDA

02:31:35 VOTING NO, COUNCILMEMBER CITRO VOTING NO, COUNCILMEMBER

02:31:40 MANISCALCO VOTING NO, COUNCILMEMBER DINGFELDER VOTING NO.

02:31:45 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WHAT'S THE NEXT MOTION?

02:31:47 >>BILL CARLSON: IF YOU ALL WANT TO GET FEEDBACK BEFORE I

02:31:57 MAKE A MOTION, YOU CAN.

02:31:59 BUT MY MOTION WOULD BE TO AMEND THE PROPOSAL TO CHANGE

02:32:05 THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD TO BE SEVEN REPRESENTATIVES

02:32:09 APPOINTED ONE BY EACH CITY COUNCIL MEMBER AND FOUR BY THE

02:32:13 MAYOR OF WHICH ONE WOULD BE THE NAACP REPRESENTATIVE.

02:32:17 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION FROM COUNCILMEMBER CARLSON.

02:32:21 I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN MIRANDA WITH THE SECOND.

02:32:25 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:32:29 DISCUSSION, COUNCILMAN VIERA?

02:32:31 >>LUIS VIERA: JUST REALLY FAST ON THIS.

02:32:33 I DO SUPPORT A MAJORITY OF THE APPOINTMENTS AS I SAID

02:32:35 FROM DAY ONE BY TAMPA CITY COUNCIL BUT THERE MUST BE A

02:32:38 METHOD BY WHICH WE ALLOW THE BOARD MEMBERS TO TRANSITION

02:32:41 OFF.

02:32:42 I DO NOT SEE THAT AND HOW THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THIS

02:32:46 MOTION.

02:32:46 I THINK THAT A SPLIT OF FIVE-FOUR, SIX-FIVE, WHATEVER IT

02:32:52 MAY BE, WOULD BE MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.




02:32:54 I THINK THAT A SEVEN-TO-ONE SPLIT GOES FROM ONE EXTREME

02:32:57 TO THE OTHER.

02:32:58 AGAIN, TAMPA CITY COUNCIL SHOULD HAVE A MAJORITY OF THE

02:33:00 VOTES, BUT I THINK THAT THIS DOESN'T GIVE ENOUGH DUE

02:33:03 DEFERENCE TO THE SERVICE OF THE FOLKS ON THE BOARD AND IT

02:33:06 GOES TO ANOTHER EXTREME, IN MY OPINION.

02:33:08 THANK YOU.

02:33:08 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMEMBER.

02:33:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THE ONLY WAY I SECOND THAT, THERE'S

02:33:18 EIGHT ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE CITY, ONE MAYOR AND SEVEN

02:33:21 COUNCIL MEMBERS.

02:33:21 SO THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, COUNCIL MEMBERS GET ONE VOTE,

02:33:26 WHOEVER THEY CHOSE TO PUT ON THAT BOARD, AND THE MAYOR

02:33:29 HAS GOT FOUR.

02:33:30 I THINK THAT'S EQUITY.

02:33:31 I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S NO WAY A SLAP AT THIS ADMINISTRATION

02:33:35 OR THIS MAYOR OR ANYONE ELSE.

02:33:39 THIS IS ANOTHER CHANGE THAT I SAID SHOULD BE CHANGED AND

02:33:43 WHO KNOWS WHAT THE NEXT COUNCIL IN FOUR OR FIVE YEARS

02:33:45 FROM NOW OR TWO YEARS FROM NOW IS GOING TO DO, BUT I

02:33:48 THINK IT'S INEVITABLE AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THE ONES THAT

02:33:52 THEY'RE NOW WE ARE GOING TO TRANSITION THEM OFF, I CAN

02:33:55 GUARANTEE YOU THAT.

02:33:56 THANK YOU.

02:33:56 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: DINGFELDER, YES, SIR.




02:34:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

02:34:01 JUST TO CLARIFY THE MOTION ALONG THOSE LINES.

02:34:04 THE MAKER OF THE MOTION WAS MR. CARLSON.

02:34:08 TO CLARIFY, ONE OF THE MAYOR'S FOUR VOTES WOULD BE THE

02:34:13 NAACP POSITION.

02:34:15 THAT'S A QUESTION, MR. CARLSON.

02:34:17 AND THE SECOND QUESTION RELATES TO MR. VIERA'S VERY

02:34:22 SENSIBLE REQUEST THAT WE WOULD DIRECT LEGAL STAFF TO

02:34:25 BUILD IN SOME TRANSITION LANGUAGE TO MAKE SURE THAT NO

02:34:29 EXISTING PERSON GOT BUMPED OFF.

02:34:33 IN OTHER WORDS, THEY GET TO SERVE OUT THEIR TERM.

02:34:35 >>BILL CARLSON: THE ANSWER TO THE FIRST ONE IS YES, AND

02:34:38 I THINK YOU KIND OF PUT THIS IN BETTER WORDS A WHILE AGO

02:34:41 THAN I DID, SO I WILL USE YOUR WORDS, BUT THE APPOINTMENT

02:34:45 OF NAACP PERSON WAS A SUGGESTION OF THE MAYOR ANYWAY SO

02:34:47 THAT WAY THE MAYOR COULD WORK WITH NAACP TO FIGURE OUT

02:34:52 WHO THE BEST REPRESENTATIVE IS.

02:34:53 AND TO COUNCILMAN VIERA'S POINT, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE

02:34:58 MECHANISM.

02:34:59 WE CAN WORK THAT OUT LATER.

02:35:00 BUT WHAT IF WE JUST ADDED TO BE APPOINTED UPON THE

02:35:04 EXPIRATION OF THE TERMS OF THE CURRENT REPRESENTATIVES?

02:35:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: EXACTLY.

02:35:13 PERFECT.

02:35:14 SOUNDS GOOD.




02:35:14 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: VERY GOOD.

02:35:15 >>BILL CARLSON: OR WHEN VACANCIES APPEAR.

02:35:18 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON MADE THE MOTION.

02:35:22 SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:35:23 REAL QUICK.

02:35:25 WE ARE SEVEN ELECTED CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS BY THE PEOPLE.

02:35:28 I THINK THIS IS FAIR.

02:35:30 THE MAYOR WILL HAVE THREE.

02:35:31 THEN THERE'S THE NAACP.

02:35:33 THE MAYOR IS HEAD OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

02:35:38 DOES IS THE CHIEF POLICE OR MAYOR ABOVE THAT?

02:35:41 I THINK THIS IS EQUITABLE.

02:35:43 COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE A MAJORITY OF APPOINTMENTS.

02:35:45 BROUGHT THIS UP IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION SIX YEARS

02:35:47 AGO.

02:35:48 THERE WAS A STRUGGLE THERE.

02:35:49 THERE WAS A FIGHT THERE.

02:35:51 I THINK THIS IS FAIR AND BALANCED.

02:35:55 I THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

02:35:57 SO I AM GOING TO DEFINITELY SUPPORT THIS.

02:36:00 MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON, SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN

02:36:03 MIRANDA.

02:36:03 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:36:04 >>LUIS VIERA: AND IF I MAY, I WANT TO SEE MORE SPECIFICS

02:36:08 ON THIS AGAIN.




02:36:09 I HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT THERE HAS TO BE A GOOD

02:36:11 TRANSITION FOR BOARD MEMBERS, AND THIS IS GOING TO PASS,

02:36:14 BUT I WANT TO SEE MORE SPECIFICS ON THIS BEFORE I COULD

02:36:17 SUPPORT THIS.

02:36:20 SO THIS IS THE GODFATHER PART 1.

02:36:23 WHEN THE GODFATHER COMES OUT, GODFATHER 2 COMES OUT I AM

02:36:29 GOING TO VOTE FOR IT.

02:36:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT.

02:36:33 I JUST HAD A QUESTION FOR MR. VIERA.

02:36:36 OR THE MAKER OF THE MOTION.

02:36:38 IN TERMS OF ALLOWING WHEN THE CITY ATTORNEY COMES BACK,

02:36:42 SOME LATITUDE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF WHAT THE CITY

02:36:44 COUNCIL'S INTENTION IS TO CREATE THE MECHANISM AND THE

02:36:46 LANGUAGE FOR THAT, TO HAVE -- RATHER THAN BE SPECIFIC TO

02:36:51 THE MOTION.

02:36:52 I AM WONDERING IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO THE MAKER.

02:36:55 WHATEVER COUNCIL'S INTENT IS, I WANT TO THE BE CLEAR TO

02:36:57 THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, WHAT COUNCIL'S DIRECTION IS.

02:37:00 >>LUIS VIERA: YES, AND I JUST WANT TO SEE THAT.

02:37:02 THAT'S ALL.

02:37:03 THAT'S ALL.

02:37:04 WHICH, BY THE WAY, WE ALL SHARE OUT OF RESPECT FOR ALL

02:37:06 THE PEOPLE THAT SERVE THERE RIGHT NOW, I JUST WANT TO SEE

02:37:09 THAT BEFORE SUPPORTING GOING DOWN THIS ROUTE.

02:37:12 THAT'S ALL.




02:37:12 >>ORLANDO GUDES: DO YOU WANT TO LAY THOSE OUT?

02:37:19 THAT WAY THE CITY ATTORNEY KNOWS HOW --

02:37:22 >>LUIS VIERA: I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GET TO BE

02:37:24 WORKED OUT BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT MEETING.

02:37:26 AND WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T DO IT HERE RIGHT NOW.

02:37:30 IN MY OPINION BECAUSE IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE TOO LONG.

02:37:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES: OKAY, SIR.

02:37:35 >>BILL CARLSON: IF I COULD JUST ADD.

02:37:37 EARLIER YOU TALKED ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT

02:37:40 ARE ON THE BOARD NOW.

02:37:41 AND I HAVE NOT HEARD ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT ANY OF THEM.

02:37:44 AND I KNOW MANY OF THEM, AND THEY ARE VERY RESPECTABLE

02:37:48 PEOPLE.

02:37:48 SO I ECHO THE SAME CONCERNS.

02:37:50 I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO SERVE OUT THEIR

02:37:53 TERM.

02:37:53 THAT'S WHY I ADD THAT OTHER PART.

02:37:55 SO THANK YOU.

02:37:55 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: CARLSON HAS THE MOTION, SECOND BY

02:37:59 MIRANDA.

02:37:59 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:38:00 >>LUIS VIERA: NO.

02:38:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

02:38:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

02:38:06 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.




02:38:08 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

02:38:09 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES.

02:38:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YES.

02:38:13 >>THE CLERK: MOTION CARRIED WITH COUNCILMEMBER VIERA

02:38:15 VOTING NO.

02:38:15 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT UP, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, YOU

02:38:19 HAVE YOUR MOTION, SIR?

02:38:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A COUPLE OF THEM.

02:38:25 NUMBER ONE, UNLESS COUNCILMAN GUDES WANTS TO MAKE IT

02:38:29 SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP EARLIER, BUT THAT LEGAL

02:38:33 DEPARTMENT MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY AND EXPRESSLY CLEAR THAT

02:38:37 THIS NEW ORDINANCE COMPLETELY AND 100% SUPERSEDES THE

02:38:42 EXISTING ORDINANCE IN EVERY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

02:38:44 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN GUDES, WOULD YOU LIKE TO

02:38:47 MAKE THAT MOTION?

02:38:48 YOU BROUGHT IT UP BEFORE.

02:38:55 >>GINA GRIMES: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU RECALL THAT WE

02:38:58 DISCUSSED THIS AT THE NOVEMBER WORKSHOP.

02:39:01 I AM THE ONE THAT PROPOSED THAT WE PRESENT BOTH AN

02:39:05 ORDINANCE AND AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT REPEALS THE 2015

02:39:11 ORDINANCE AND THE 2015 EXECUTIVE ORDER.

02:39:17 I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITIES TO LOOK AT THE

02:39:19 ORDINANCES, AND THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT I PRESENTED TO

02:39:22 YOU, BUT IT DOES ALREADY SAY WHAT WE ARE WHAT YOU ARE

02:39:26 ASKING ME TO DRAFT, TO SAY THAT IT IS REPEALED, AND




02:39:30 SUPERSEDES THE EARLIER 2015 ORDINANCE AND THE EARLIER

02:39:35 2015 EXECUTIVE ORDER, AND THE INTENT BEHIND THAT WAS THAT

02:39:40 WE WANTED TO WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN AND REMOVE ANY OF THE

02:39:46 STATEMENTS MADE ABOUT WHO HAS THE POWER TO CREATE THE

02:39:50 CRB.

02:39:51 SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THE CHARTER HAS

02:39:54 CHANGED SINCE THIS DISCUSSION REGARDING CREATION OF THE

02:39:58 CRB OCCURRED IN 2015.

02:40:00 SO THERE IS NO QUESTION IN 2015 WHO HAD THE POWER TO

02:40:06 CREATE THE CRB.

02:40:08 THE CHARTER HAS BEEN CHANGED AND IT'S CLEAR BOTH THE CITY

02:40:11 COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR EACH HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CREATE A

02:40:16 BOARD.

02:40:18 HOWEVER, WHICHEVER ENTITY CREATES THE BOARD, IT'S SUBJECT

02:40:25 TO THE APPROVAL OF THE MAYOR.

02:40:26 IF IT'S THE MAYOR THAT CREATES THE BOARD, OUR EXECUTIVE

02:40:30 ORDER IS SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF CITY COUNCIL.

02:40:32 SO EVEN WITH ALL THESE CHANGES THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING, I

02:40:35 JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT TV CREATION OF THE CRB IN

02:40:42 THE FORM THAT IT'S NOW DRAFTED AND WITH THESE ADDITIONAL

02:40:45 CHANGES, IT'S STILL SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE MAYOR

02:40:49 AT THE END OF THE OKAY.

02:40:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CHAIR.

02:40:54 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN THEN COUNCILMAN

02:40:56 DINGFELDER.




02:40:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I SIT ON THAT CHARTER REVIEW, AND I

02:41:00 DON'T REMEMBER THAT VERBIAGE.

02:41:02 I DON'T REMEMBER THAT THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE POWERS OVER

02:41:04 THE --

02:41:06 >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK SOMEBODY SLID IT IN.

02:41:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES: RIGHT.

02:41:09 BECAUSE THAT WAS NEVER THE INTENT OF THE CHARTER REVIEW.

02:41:11 AND I UNDERSTAND THAT MAY BE THE INTERPRETATION AT THIS

02:41:16 PARTICULAR POINT, BUT I ASSURE YOU, IN THE NECESSARY

02:41:19 FOUGHT I AM GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT MR. SHELBY

02:41:26 COUNSEL TAKE LOOK AT THAT ISSUE.

02:41:29 WE HAVE TO HAVE SEPARATION OF POWERS.

02:41:31 WE CANNOT HAVE 2001 THINGS INTERTWINED.

02:41:34 AND I BELIEVE THAT THE FORMER ATTORNEY, I DON'T WANT

02:41:37 TO -- I DON'T RECALL THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION SAYING

02:41:41 THAT WE HAVE INTERTWINED POWERS THAT WAY.

02:41:44 IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

02:41:45 AND I KNOW I HAVE TWO OTHER MEMBERS -- SO MR. SHELBY, I

02:41:52 WILL SEND YOU A MEMO RELATIVE TO GETTING WITH MS. GRIMES,

02:41:55 BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE CHANGED.

02:41:57 I AM JUST SAYING THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE CHANGED.

02:42:06 >>GINA GRIMES: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, IN LISTENING TO THE

02:42:09 AUDIO TAPES FROM THOSE CHARTER REVIEW BOARDS HEARINGS, I

02:42:15 HAD TWO OTHER ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEYS HERE LISTENING TO

02:42:18 THEM AS WELL, AND IT WAS CLEAR TO BE ME AND TO US THAT




02:42:22 THE INTENT WAS TO CREATE AN EQUAL AUTHORITY IN THE CITY

02:42:27 COUNCIL AS EXISTED IN THE MAYOR, THE MAYOR -- WITHOUT THE

02:42:32 APPROVAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL, AND LIKEWISE IT WAS

02:42:35 INTENDED TO CREATE THAT SAME POWER FOR CITY COUNCIL WHICH

02:42:38 WAS TO GIVE THEM THE AUTHORITY TO CREATE A BOARD UPON THE

02:42:42 APPROVAL OF THE MAYOR.

02:42:43 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I RESPECT THAT.

02:42:48 I RESPECT THAT.

02:42:49 BUT IN MY MIND, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WAS WHERE WE

02:42:54 INTENDED TO GO.

02:42:54 BUT IF THAT'S THE WAY IT IS, FINE.

02:42:56 I SEE AT THIS POINT A LOT OF COMPLICATIONS GOING DOWN THE

02:42:59 ROAD AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT AT ANOTHER TIME.

02:43:02 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MR. SHELBY, I SAW YOUR HAND UP.

02:43:06 THEN MR. DINGFELDER, SIR.

02:43:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT THE WAY

02:43:11 THIS IS BEING BROUGHT FORTH AND PRESENTED TO COUNCIL, I

02:43:15 APPRECIATE MS. GRIMES SUPERSEDING, AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR

02:43:19 INTENT, COUNCILMAN GUDES, WAS -- AND I BELIEVE I HAD THE

02:43:22 OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THIS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, TO BE

02:43:26 ABLE TO FLUSH OUT PERHAPS THE WHEREAS CLAUSES, AND ALSO

02:43:31 JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, THE WORD IN ITS ENTIRETY, THERE'S

02:43:35 NO QUESTION IN CITY COUNCIL'S MIND OR FUTURE CITY

02:43:38 ATTORNEY'S MIND OR THE PUBLIC'S MIND AS TO THE EFFECT OF

02:43:40 THE 2015 ORDINANCE, AND WHATEVER PROBLEMS WERE DELINEATED




02:43:45 BY THAT ORDINANCE IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S MEMO OF

02:43:50 SEPTEMBER 2020 IS THAT REIGN NOW RENDERED MOOT BECAUSE

02:43:54 THAT ORDINANCE IS NOW SUPERCEDED BY WHATEVER IS GOING TO

02:43:56 BE FORTHCOMING.

02:43:57 SO COUNCILMAN GUDES, I UNDERSTAND YOUR MOTION.

02:44:01 I HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS IT WITH MS. GRIMES,

02:44:03 AND BETWEEN NOW AND WHENEVER IT COMES BACK FOR FIRST

02:44:06 READING, I CERTAINLY WILL WORK CLOSELY, AND GIVE HER A

02:44:09 DRAFT AND LET HER REVIEW THAT TO SEE IF IT'S APPROPRIATE

02:44:12 TO INCORPORATE, WHICH I THINK WE CAN WORK THAT OUT.

02:44:14 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

02:44:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: MR. MIRANDA SAID WE DON'T HAVE TIME

02:44:21 TODAY TO GET INTO THESE DISPUTES BETWEEN -- THAT MIGHT

02:44:28 EXIST UPON INTERPRETATION.

02:44:29 I WILL SAY, MS. GRIMES, THAT WE HAVE A CONFLICT WITH ONE

02:44:35 OF THE KEY PROVISIONS OF THE CHARTER THAT SAYS THAT CITY

02:44:37 COUNCIL -- IS THE SOLE LEGISLATIVE BODY.

02:44:41 THERE'S NO EXCEPTIONS ON THAT PROVISION.

02:44:44 I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME BUT I AM PRETTY SURE I

02:44:47 READ IT 30 TIMES AT LEAST.

02:44:49 >>GINA GRIMES: THERE IS.

02:44:50 THERE IS AN EXCEPTION.

02:44:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: WE HAVE THE SOLE LEGISLATIVE

02:44:53 AUTHORITY.

02:44:54 BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO IT, OKAY.




02:44:56 BOTTOM LINE IS, THAT OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERING

02:45:01 OPINIONS BOUNCING AROUND THIS ISSUE AND THESE ISSUES.

02:45:06 OKAY?

02:45:08 THEY DID NEED TO GET RESOLVED IN THE CHARTER CHANGE.

02:45:14 IN REGARD TO THE MOTION THAT I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE, AND I

02:45:17 WILL SOFTEN UP THE MOTION A BIT AND JUST DIRECT MR.

02:45:20 SHELBY TO WORK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO MAKE SURE THAT

02:45:24 IT'S ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THE ORDINANCE WE ARE

02:45:28 DOCUMENTING PASS, 100% SUPERSEDE THE PRIOR ORDINANCE.

02:45:35 THAT'S MY MOTION.

02:45:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WAIT, WE HAVE YOUR MOTION ON THE

02:45:39 FLOOR, DIDN'T WE?

02:45:41 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I DIDN'T MAKE A MOTION.

02:45:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YOU DIDN'T?

02:45:44 COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

02:45:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WAS THERE A SECOND?

02:45:49 >> SECOND.

02:45:49 >>BILL CARLSON: THERE WERE THINGS, DISCUSSION FOR

02:45:53 ANOTHER DAY IS WHAT HAPPENED OR DIDN'T HAPPEN AT THE

02:45:55 CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.

02:45:57 SEVERAL OF US WERE ON IT.

02:45:58 THINGS POPPED UP THAT I THINK SEVERAL OF US DON'T

02:46:02 REMEMBER HAPPENED, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN THOSE

02:46:08 MEETINGS, ANYBODY WHO GOES BACK AND WATCHES THEM, THEY

02:46:11 WILL SEE THAT THE FORMER CITY ATTORNEY ESSENTIALLY YELLED




02:46:13 AT ME FROM THE DAIS, AND ARGUED WITH ME ABOUT HOW I WAS

02:46:18 TRYING TO BALANCE THE POWERS BETWEEN CITY COUNCIL AND THE

02:46:20 MAYOR, AND I SAID THAT'S WHAT CITY COUNCIL ASKED US TO

02:46:23 DO.

02:46:24 SO ANYWAY, THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER DAY.

02:46:26 WHAT I WANTED TO SAY IS THAT I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE

02:46:29 HAVING MS. GRIMES, AND I HAVE KNOWN HER FOR A LONG TIME

02:46:34 AND I TRUST HER.

02:46:35 I ALWAYS TRY TO TAKE LEGAL ADVICE, UNLESS I DON'T TRUST

02:46:38 SOMEONE, AND SO I AM LISTENING TO HER ADVICE.

02:46:42 THE GOOD THING IN THIS SITUATION IS EVEN IF WE DON'T

02:46:45 AGREE WITH THE UNDERLYING PREMISE, MS. GRIMES, HER TEAM,

02:46:50 CHIEF BENNETT, WHO WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED YET, AND THE

02:46:53 MAYOR HERSELF HAVE ALL AGREED WITH ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT

02:46:56 WE AND THE COMMUNITY PUT ON THE TABLE.

02:46:59 THEY LISTENED TO ALL SIDES AND PUT EVERYTHING ON THE

02:47:02 TABLE AND I FEEL CONFIDENT, EVEN THOUGH WE ARE TWEAKING

02:47:04 THIS SOME, AND EVEN CHANGING SOME OF THE PERCEIVED

02:47:09 POWERS, I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THAT TEAM WILL COME BACK

02:47:12 AND THEY WILL WORK WITH US ON IT.

02:47:14 AND EITHER ACCEPT IT OR WORK WITH US. SO I WOULD LIKE TO

02:47:17 PUT THESE PROPOSALS FORWARD IN GOOD FAITH, AND HOPE TO

02:47:20 HEAR GOOD NEWS WHENEVER IT COMES BACK, AND JUST THANKS

02:47:24 AGAIN TO EVERYBODY FOR YOUR ETHICS AND HONOR IN WORKING

02:47:27 ON THIS.




02:47:27 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, SIR, YES, COUNCILMAN

02:47:30 DINGFELDER.

02:47:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: SO WE DIDN'T VOTE ON THAT YET.

02:47:35 WE STILL HAVE TO VOTE ON IT.

02:47:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THERE'S A MOTION AND I AM GOING TO

02:47:38 GET A SECOND.

02:47:38 COUNCILMAN GUDES MADE THE SECOND.

02:47:41 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:47:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YES.

02:47:50 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES.

02:47:52 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

02:47:55 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

02:47:58 >>LUIS VIERA: THIS WAS ON SUPERSEDING, CORRECT?

02:48:00 >>LUIS VIERA:

02:48:01 >>THE CLERK: YES, SIR.

02:48:03 >>LUIS VIERA: YES.

02:48:04 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

02:48:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

02:48:07 >>THE CLERK: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

02:48:08 >> COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, GO AHEAD, SIR.

02:48:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: OKAY.

02:48:15 I WANTED TO ADDRESS MY TWO LITTLE CLEAN-UP ITEMS.

02:48:18 I KNOW NOT A LOT MUCH ENTHUSIASM AROUND THE TABLE BUT I

02:48:22 THINK THEY ARE IMPORTANT.

02:48:23 NUMBER ONE RELATED TO MISDEMEANORS.




02:48:27 I THINK POSSIBLY SOMEONE ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR AND

02:48:31 NOT CONVICTED, THEY SHOULDN'T BE THROWN OFF THE PANEL.

02:48:34 WHAT IF SOMEBODY IS SITTING OTHER PANEL, LUIS, AND THEY

02:48:37 GET ARRESTED FOR SOME LITTLE MISDEMEANOR AND ULTIMATELY

02:48:39 THE MISDEMEANOR IS DISCHARGED OR DISMISSED, DO THEY GET

02:48:43 THROWN OFF THE PANEL?

02:48:44 THAT'S THE WAY THE ORDINANCE CURRENTLY READS.

02:48:47 SO I WOULD JUST SAY, WE WOULD PRECLUDE SOMEBODY IF THEY

02:48:50 HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A MISDEMEANOR BUT NOT NECESSARILY

02:48:53 JUST ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR.

02:48:55 SO I NEED TO MAKE IT AS TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS. I WOULD

02:48:58 DIRECT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO CLARIFY THAT PROVISION, SO

02:49:02 A MERE MISDEMEANOR ARREST DOESN'T PRECLUDE SOMEBODY FROM

02:49:06 SERVING, ONLY A MISDEMEANOR CONVICTION.

02:49:09 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

02:49:12 DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

02:49:15 I AM GOING TO --

02:49:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I WILL SECOND FOR DISCUSSION.

02:49:18 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:49:21 ANY DISCUSSION?

02:49:25 >>LUIS VIERA: SO RIGHT NOW, CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, IF

02:49:26 THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED THEY HAVE TO WAIT, WHAT WAS IT,

02:49:29 TWO YEARS?

02:49:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: CORRECT.

02:49:32 THAT'S WHAT MS. GRIMES TOLD US OR MS. RICHARDSON.




02:49:35 >>GINA GRIMES: THAT'S CORRECT.

02:49:37 >>LUIS VIERA: I MEAN, WAITING TWO YEARS DOESN'T PRECLUDE

02:49:40 THEM FOREVER FROM SERVING ON THE BOARD.

02:49:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: IT MEANS THEY GET THROWN OFF THE

02:49:46 BOARD IF THEY GOT ARRESTED AND NOT CONVICTED.

02:49:49 IT'S THE WAY IT READS RIGHT NOW.

02:49:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN

02:49:58 DINGFELDER.

02:49:58 SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:49:59 SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.

02:50:01 AND NOT TO THROW THE BOOK AT THEM JUST BECAUSE OF THAT.

02:50:06 WE ARE HUMAN.

02:50:09 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:50:10 WAIT, COUNCILMAN GUDES.

02:50:11 >>ORLANDO GUDES: LET ME MAKE SURE I HAVE IT CORRECT.

02:50:16 THE PERSON IS ARRESTED OF A MISDEMEANOR BUT NOT

02:50:20 CONVICTED.

02:50:22 BUT DURING THAT TIME, ARE WE SAYING THAT PERSON IS

02:50:26 DISMISSED UNTIL THAT CASE IS CLEARED?

02:50:29 SO MANY MONTHS OR DAYS TO GET THAT CLEARED UP?

02:50:34 WHAT ARE WE SAYING?

02:50:36 I THINK IF YOU GOT ARRESTED, IF YOU GOT ARRESTED, YOU

02:50:41 KNOW, HERE IN THE CITY IF YOU ARE ARRESTED YOU HAVE TO GO

02:50:47 THROUGH A PROCESS, AND A LOT OF TIMES YOU ARE SUSPENDED

02:50:50 WITHOUT PAY UNTIL THE OUTCOME OF THAT IS DONE.




02:50:53 I THINK THAT'S FAIR BECAUSE YOU HAVE TIME TO HAVE DO WHAT

02:50:59 YOU NEED TO, DO BUT YOU SHOULDN'T BE SITTING ON A BOARD

02:51:02 IF YOU WERE ARRESTED AND PENDING SOME CHARGES HOW LONG

02:51:05 YOU ARE GOING TO WAIT.

02:51:06 THAT'S THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE.

02:51:11 HOW LONG DO YOU WAIT TO GIVE THEM A PERIOD TO CLEAN THAT

02:51:14 UP AND THEY ARE SERVING ON A BOARD THAT DEALS WITH POLICE

02:51:17 ISSUES, CITIZEN ISSUES?

02:51:20 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

02:51:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: OKAY.

02:51:23 IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COPS WHATSOEVER.

02:51:25 ORLANDO, LET'S SAY THAT SOMEBODY GETS A MISDEMEANOR FOR A

02:51:29 TRESPASS BECAUSE THEY WALKED ON THEIR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY

02:51:31 AND THEIR NEIGHBOR FILED A TRESPASS AGAINST THEM.

02:51:34 THAT'S A THIRD DEGREE MISDEMEANOR TODAY, INCONSEQUENTIAL,

02:51:38 BUT NOW IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE SERVING ON THIS BOARD, ALL

02:51:41 OF A SUDDEN, WORKING -- [INDISCERNIBLE]

02:51:57 THERE'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

02:51:58 ALL I AM SAYING -- LET ME FINISH, PLEASE.

02:52:01 ALL I AM SAYING IS IF THEY GET CONVICTED OF A MISDEMEANOR

02:52:05 THEN THEY CAN GET THROWN OFF THE BOARD, INELIGIBLE TO

02:52:09 SERVE ON THE BOARD FOR TWO YEARS, BUT WHAT WHERE IS THE

02:52:12 SUGGESTIONS OF INNOCENCE?

02:52:13 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I AGREE WITH YOU.

02:52:15 I AM NOT SAYING THAT.




02:52:16 I AM SAYING IF YOU ARE ARRESTED FOR TRESPASSING, OR JAY

02:52:19 WALKING, WHATEVER, BUT IF YOU ARE ARRESTED JUST SITTING

02:52:21 ON THIS TYPE OF A BOARD, I WOULD THINK THAT YOU WOULD

02:52:28 NEED A GRACE PERIOD.

02:52:30 I AM NOMINATE SAYING KICK THE PERSON OFF, BUT WITH

02:52:32 ANYTHING, WITHIN THE CITY GOVERNMENT.

02:52:34 IF YOU ARE ARRESTED FOR WHATEVER, YOU HAVE 30, 60

02:52:37 INDICATION TO GET THAT CLEARED UP OR WHATEVER BEFORE

02:52:39 ANYTHING ELSE IS IMPOSED.

02:52:41 THESE ALL I AM SAYING.

02:52:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN VIERA, YOU HAD YOUR HAND

02:52:44 UP.

02:52:46 >>GINA GRIMES: IF I COULD CHIME IN.

02:52:47 >>URSULA RICHARDSON: THIS IS URSULA.

02:52:52 FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE DISCUSSION, E-1-F, IF YOU LOOK AT

02:52:55 THE LANGUAGE, ALL WE ARE ASKING TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT,

02:52:58 IF YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR THAT OVER IN

02:53:05 ST. PETERSBURG OR TEMPLE TERRACE OR ANY OTHER

02:53:07 JURISDICTION, THE WHOLE POINT IS THIS BOARD HAS BEEN

02:53:10 FORMED FOR THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND FOR THE BOARD

02:53:15 THAT IS MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE TAMPA POLICE

02:53:17 DEPARTMENT.

02:53:18 AND SO THAT IS WHY WE LIMITED IT ONLY TO ARRESTS WHETHER

02:53:24 THEY ARE MISDEMEANORS OR FELONIES, MADE BY THIS

02:53:27 PARTICULAR DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE IT DOES AS COUNCILMAN




02:53:32 SAID, A PRESUMPTION THAT THE PERSON CANNOT BE NEUTRAL IF

02:53:36 THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT OR

02:53:39 IN A CASE INVOLVING THE OFFICER WHO ARRESTED THEM COMES

02:53:42 BEFORE THE BOARD, WHAT KIND OF NEUTRALITY DO YOU HAVE?

02:53:45 AND EVEN IF HE CAN BE NEUTRAL THERE IS A PERCEPTION THAT

02:53:50 THEY COULD NOT BE.

02:53:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: CAN WE JUST VOTE ON THIS IF I GOT A

02:53:54 SECOND?

02:53:54 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WAIT, WE HAVE VIERA, IF YOU HAVE

02:53:56 YOUR HAND UP.

02:53:57 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BRINGING THAT

02:54:03 POINT UP.

02:54:04 IF I WAS ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR THAT I DID NOT

02:54:07 COMMIT, AND THEN I WAS PUT ON LEAVE ON THIS BOARD, WOULD

02:54:15 I BE BIASED?

02:54:16 OH, HELL, YES, I WOULD BE BIASED. I THINK THAT'S THE

02:54:20 POINT THAT COUNCILMAN GUDES IS MAKING. IF YOU ARE

02:54:22 ARRESTED REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, YOU SHOULD BE OFF THE

02:54:24 BOARD FOR THAT AMOUNT OF TIME.

02:54:25 BUT THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE ALTERNATES.

02:54:27 SO I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY'S POINTED ON THIS.

02:54:30 AND COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, YOU MAKE A DAMN GOOD POINT.

02:54:33 BUT IF I AM ARRESTED FOR A MISDEMEANOR AND I DIDN'T

02:54:38 COMMIT IT AND I START CLEARING MY NAME, AM I GOING TO BE

02:54:41 BIASED?




02:54:42 HELL, YES.

02:54:43 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:54:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THE REASON I SECONDED IT, THE OTHER

02:54:49 THING THAT I DO IN MY LIFE, PEOPLE APPLYING FOR A CERTAIN

02:54:54 LICENSE IN A CERTAIN VICINITY.

02:54:56 IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING LIKE A DUI OR HAVE A CRIMINAL

02:54:59 ROBBED OR HAVE ANY KIND OF RECORD, TURN DOWN THE

02:55:04 APPLICATION AND THEY MUST BRING ALL THE INFORMATION THAT

02:55:08 THEY HAVE BEEN EXONERATED FROM EVERYTHING ELSE.

02:55:13 AND WE ACCEPT THAT.

02:55:14 HOWEVER, SOMETIMES I'M THE JUDGE AND THE JURY.

02:55:22 IF WE THINK THAT INDIVIDUAL'S PREROGATIVE TO WORK,

02:55:26 REALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT I DO? TRY AGAIN.

02:55:33 SO I DON'T HOLD IT AGAINST ANYBODY.

02:55:36 IF I DO, I HOLD IT AGAINST MYSELF.

02:55:38 THANK YOU.

02:55:39 >> COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, YOU HAD A MOTION ON THE FLOOR,

02:55:41 SIR.

02:55:42 ANYTHING ELSE?

02:55:43 YOU HAVE A MOTION.

02:55:43 YOU HAVE A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, I BELIEVE.

02:55:46 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:55:47 >>THE CLERK: VIERA?

02:55:53 IT.

02:55:54 >>LUIS VIERA: KOCH I GET CLARIFICATION --




02:55:58 >>> COULD YOU READ IT AGAIN FOR THE CLERK AND COUNCILMEN?

02:56:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: DIRECTING THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO --

02:56:07 I DON'T HAVE THE PROVISION, DISQUALIFICATION PROVISION,

02:56:13 WHICH WOULD ALLOW FOR SOMEBODY TO CONTINUE TO SERVE

02:56:18 AND/OR BE QUALIFIED TO BE APPOINTED EVEN IF THEY HAD A

02:56:21 MISDEMEANOR ARREST, AS LONG AS THEY DID NOT HAVE A

02:56:24 MISDEMEANOR CONVICTION.

02:56:25 >>LUIS VIERA: I COULD SUPPORT IT IF THE MOTION WAS TO

02:56:29 ADDRESS ANY INEQUITIES THAT COULD ARISE, BUT I THINK A

02:56:34 BLANKET REPEAL OF THAT GOES TOO FAR AND COULD HAVE

02:56:37 UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

02:56:38 AGAIN, TAKING A LOOK AT A MORE NARROWLY TAILORED FIX THAT

02:56:43 GIVES THE CITY ATTORNEY DISCRETION, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT.

02:56:46 I THINK THIS IS A BLANKET REPEAL THAT COULD HAVE

02:56:48 UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES SO I WILL VOTE NO.

02:56:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND I ASK THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE

02:57:00 1-F, COUNCILMAN? I BELIEVE THAT'S THE PROVISION?

02:57:03 YES.

02:57:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

02:57:05 >> WE HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

02:57:09 SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:57:10 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:57:11 >>ORLANDO GUDES: QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN.

02:57:13 I COULD SUPPORT YOUR MOTION BUT I WOULD NEED LEGAL TO

02:57:16 LOOK AT SOME CIRCUMSTANCES TO WHERE YOU HAVE PERSON ON




02:57:20 LEAVE DURING THAT TIME, SOME OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT, IF I

02:57:26 COULD GIVE FULL SUPPORT OF THAT.

02:57:28 A PERSON ARRESTED AND SITTING ON THIS TYPE OF BOARD NEEDS

02:57:31 TO BE REMOVED FROM THE BOARD UNTIL THE ISSUES ARE CLEARED

02:57:33 UP, AND A GRACE PERIOD OF TIME AND SO FORTH.

02:57:37 IF YOU WANT TO --

02:57:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I WILL ACCEPT THAT AS A FRIENDLY

02:57:40 AMENDMENT TO ASK LEGAL TO INCLUDE SPECIFICALLY INCLUDING

02:57:43 INCLUDE THAT LANGUAGE, THAT ANY CURRENTLY SERVING BOARD

02:57:47 MEMBER WOULD BE TEMPORARILY TAKE A LEAVE DURING THE

02:57:51 PENDENCY OF THAT MISDEMEANOR.

02:57:56 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON, A COMMENT,

02:57:58 QUESTION?

02:57:59 >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK THAT'S OKAY.

02:58:00 I WANTED SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

02:58:02 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: VERY GOOD.

02:58:02 WE HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

02:58:04 SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

02:58:05 ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:58:06 >>LUIS VIERA: WITH THAT I WILL SAY YES.

02:58:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

02:58:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YES.

02:58:14 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES.

02:58:16 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

02:58:18 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.




02:58:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

02:58:22 >>THE CLERK: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

02:58:24 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIR, I HAVE TO LEAVE IN A FEW

02:58:28 MINUTES TO PICK UP MY SON.

02:58:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A NIGHT MEETING AS WELL IN

02:58:32 TWO HOURS.

02:58:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: LET ME THROW OUT PROBABLY THE MOST

02:58:40 IMPORTANT ISSUE, TO DIRECT LEGAL TO DRAFT CHARTER

02:58:44 LANGUAGE, AND MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK MARCH

02:58:50 18th, MAKE THEY CAN COME BACK IN THE MEETING IN

02:58:53 APRIL, BUT TO DRAFT CHARTER LANGUAGE AS RELATED TO

02:58:57 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, THAT THE CRB MAY AT ITS DISCRETION

02:59:03 HIRE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

02:59:05 MAYBE THEY DECIDE THEY DON'T WANT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL BUT

02:59:09 AT LEAST THEY HAVE THE DISCRETION TO DO THAT, NUMBER ONE.

02:59:12 AND B, THAT THEY HAVE LIMITED SUBPOENA POWERS.

02:59:16 WHEN I SAY LIMITED SUBPOENA POWER, THE SUBPOENA POWER

02:59:23 WOULD BE AS FOLLOWS:

02:59:27 ON REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF THE ATTORNEY FOR THE CRB, THE

02:59:34 CRB MAY ISSUE SUBPOENAS FOR WITNESSES, DOCUMENTS AND

02:59:37 OTHER POTENTIAL EVIDENCE FOR ALL MATTERS WITHIN THE CRB'S

02:59:42 JURISDICTION.

02:59:42 HOWEVER, EXCEPT AS MAY BE PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

02:59:49 HOWEVER, NOTHING HEREIN AUTHORIZES THE CRB TO ISSUE A

02:59:54 SUBPOENA TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.




02:59:57 SO THAT'S WHY I SAY THEY WOULD HAVE LIMITED SUBPOENA

03:00:00 POWER, THAT'S THE EXPRESS LANGUAGE THAT WAS STILL ON THE

03:00:04 CHARTER BALLOT, AND SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE

03:00:08 VOTING FOR.

03:00:11 >> A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, TALKING ABOUT SUBPOENA POWER

03:00:19 ISSUES.

03:00:20 BUT THE SUBPOENA POWER ISSUE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE

03:00:24 CITY OF MIAMI MADE BY AN INVESTIGATORY POWER, SO IT

03:00:31 WASN'T JUST GIVING A SUBPOENA POWER.

03:00:33 IT WAS GIVING THEM THE ABILITY TO ESSENTIALLY BE THE

03:00:37 DEPARTMENT WITHIN --

03:00:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING?

03:00:44 >> NO.

03:00:43 >> OKAY.

03:00:47 I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT EITHER.

03:00:49 I AM ADVOCATING LET THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY DECIDE

03:00:55 WHETHER THIS IS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.

03:00:57 I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, MS. RICHARDSON,

03:01:00 COMPLETELY.

03:01:01 I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANYTHING MORE OR UNLESS ANYTHING

03:01:04 LESS.

03:01:04 I AM SUGGESTING THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA HAVE

03:01:07 THE OPPORTUNITIES TO VOTE ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

03:01:11 FRANKLY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US BE ABLE TO VOTE ON IT --

03:01:16 LET ME FINISH.




03:01:22 (OVERLAPPING CONVERSATIONS)

03:01:23 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:

03:01:25 [SOUNDING GAVEL]

03:01:26 ALL RIGHT.

03:01:26 MR. DINGFELDER, PLEASE CONTINUE.

03:01:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: RIGHT.

03:01:30 THANK YOU.

03:01:31 I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT ON THIS IF I WOULD, I WOULD

03:01:35 SAY WE NEED TO DO IT OURSELVES BUT MRS. GRIMES TOLD US WE

03:01:38 DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DELEGATE THAT SUBPOENA POWER.

03:01:41 MRS. GRIMES TOLD US IF WE WANT TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT,

03:01:44 WE CAN, AND THAT IS A POLICY DECISION, AND PUTTING IT ON

03:01:47 THE BALLOT WITH THE SEVERE LIMITATIONS THAT I TALKED

03:01:50 ABOUT, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBPOENAING THE OFFICER,

03:01:56 OKAY, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SCENARIO THAT ONE OF THE

03:02:00 WITNESSES EARLIER TODAY SPOKE TO, WHICH IS IF THERE IS

03:02:05 OTHER INFORMATION OUT THERE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT IS

03:02:07 IMPORTANT FOR THE BOARD TO HEAR, THEY COULD SUBPOENA IT.

03:02:11 OKAY.

03:02:11 WHETHER OR NOT IT'S FROM WITNESSES WHO MIGHT HAVE SEEN

03:02:15 THE INCIDENT HAPPEN OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

03:02:16 IT'S ALL ABOUT A SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH.

03:02:19 AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

03:02:21 WE CAN LET THE VOTERS DECIDE IF THEY THINK IT'S

03:02:23 IMPORTANT.




03:02:24 SO I MOTION, IF YOU WANT ME TO BREAK IT INTO TWO,

03:02:27 MR. CHAIRMAN, I CAN BREAK IT INTO TWO.

03:02:29 MAYBE THAT'S BETTER.

03:02:30 THE FIRST PART IS INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

03:02:31 THE SECOND PART IS LIMITED SUBPOENA POWER.

03:02:35 AND THEY WOULD BOTH GO ON THE NEXT AVAILABLE BALLOT

03:02:39 PROBABLY 2022.

03:02:40 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN CITRO, DO YOU WANT TO

03:02:42 SPEAK TO THIS?

03:02:43 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I JUST 2021 SEPARATE THE CONVERSATION

03:02:46 BETWEEN LEGAL AND COUNSEL.

03:02:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: AND IT'S BEEN DONE.

03:02:49 >>ORLANDO GUDES: WHEN IT'S ON LEGAL I WANT TO SAY

03:02:51 SOMETHING.

03:02:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I WANT TO BE CLEAR FOR THE CLERK THAT

03:02:53 THE CLERK TAKES THAT AS TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS OR DO WE

03:02:56 NEED TO HAVE THAT DONE BY COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER?

03:03:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I THINK IT'S PROBABLY CLEAR TO MAKE

03:03:03 IT TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS.

03:03:05 MY FIRST MOTION WOULD BE THE QUESTION OF INDEPENDENT

03:03:07 COUNSEL GO ON THE BALLOT AND ASK LEGAL STAFF TO BRING

03:03:12 THAT BACK TO US AT OUR FIRST MEETING IN APRIL WITH

03:03:14 LANGUAGE TO GO ON THE BALLOT IN 2022, AND I DON'T HAVE

03:03:18 THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE, BUT I WILL JUST SAY GIVING THIS

03:03:23 BODY THE DISCRETION OF HAVING INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE




03:03:30 COUNSEL, INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE COUNSEL, IF THAT'S THE

03:03:34 BOARD'S DESIRE.

03:03:35 >>BILL CARLSON: SECOND.

03:03:37 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN

03:03:39 CARLSON.

03:03:40 YES, SIR, COUNCILMAN CITRO.

03:03:41 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I HEARD A COUPLE WEEKS AGO A

03:03:45 COUNCILMEMBER DESCRIBING THE LEGALITY OF OUR LEGAL

03:03:49 PEOPLE, WHETHER IT BE FOR THE CITY OR OUR OWN CITY

03:03:53 COUNCIL ATTORNEY.

03:03:56 A COUPLE WEEKS AGO SAYING, WHY IS ONE DOING THE JOB FOR

03:03:59 THE OTHER?

03:04:01 IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THIS CHARTER AMENDMENT FROM THIS

03:04:05 CITY COUNCIL, NO OFFENSE TO ANYBODY, SHOULDN'T IT BE DONE

03:04:08 BY OUR OWN ATTORNEY?

03:04:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: QUITE FRANKLY I AM HAPPY TO PARTICIPATE

03:04:15 IN THE PROCESS --

03:04:17 >>JOSEPH CITRO: LET ME FINISH ONE LAST STATEMENT.

03:04:20 TWO WEEKS AGO, I HEARD ONE OF OUR OWN CITY COUNCIL SAYING

03:04:23 WHY ARE WE GETTING CITY ATTORNEYS TO DO SOMETHING FOR US

03:04:27 WHEN WE HAVE OUR OWN COUNSEL?

03:04:29 I WILL LET YOU SPEAK.

03:04:30 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.

03:04:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND THIS WAS AN ISSUE, BY THE WAY, I

03:04:34 WAS ASSIGNED BY CITY COUNCIL TO BE A LEGAL VISCERA LONG




03:04:41 WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION,

03:04:44 BUT ULTIMATELY WHEN IT CAME TO THE MATTER OF SOMETHING

03:04:47 THAT INVOLVED SOMETHING AS RELATED TO CITY CHARTER, I

03:04:53 DEFERRED TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND MRS. GRIMES CAN OH

03:04:57 PAIN IF SHE WISHES, BUT BECAUSE IT'S AN ORDINANCE THAT

03:05:02 HAS VERY STRICT STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS, VERY SPECIFIC

03:05:10 PROCEDURAL REQUIREMENTS, AND ALSO IT INVOLVES THE CHARTER

03:05:14 OF THE CITY, WHICH IS SOMETHING IN TERMS OF THE LEGAL

03:05:20 AFFAIRS OF THE CITY, I CERTAINLY CAN OPINE TO IT, BUT I

03:05:24 CERTAINLY DEFERRED AT THE TIME TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, THE

03:05:29 BALLOT LANGUAGE HAD TO BE PREPARED AND APPROVED BY THE

03:05:32 CITY ATTORNEY AND THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT WORKING IN THE

03:05:34 PROCESS WAS ABLE TO COMPLETE THE PROCEDURAL STEPS THAT

03:05:37 GOT IT ON THE BALLOT.

03:05:39 SO IT TOOK DRAFTING THE LANGUAGE.

03:05:42 I AM CERTAINLY WILLING TO PREPARE THAT DRAFT LANGUAGE,

03:05:44 BUT I THINK MAYBE MS. GRIMES WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS HER

03:05:47 POSITION ABOUT IT BUT MAIN I AM HAPPY TO HEAR IT.

03:05:51 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY INTERVENE I NEED TO

03:05:54 LEAVE IN ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.

03:05:55 I SAID THAT ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AGO.

03:05:57 BUT IT'S JUST IN THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY I DON'T HAVE

03:06:00 ANYONE ABLE TO PICK UP MY SON.

03:06:01 AND JUST I WANT TO VOTE ON EVERYTHING, BUT --

03:06:06 >>> OKAY.




03:06:06 ANYBODY ELSE?

03:06:09 >>GINA GRIMES: I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER -- I APPRECIATE YOUR

03:06:14 COMMENTS, COUNCILMAN CITRO, BUT I WOULD HAPPY TO WORK

03:06:18 WITH MR. SHELBY IN DRAFTING THE LANGUAGE, AND THAT WAY

03:06:21 YOU CAN ENSURE THAT HE'LL LOOK AT IT BUT I AM HAPPY TO

03:06:29 TAKE THE LEAD IF THAT'S OKAY.

03:06:34 I WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH HIM, THOUGH.

03:06:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MR. CITRO.

03:06:39 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

03:06:42 MR. CHAIR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, MR. SHELBY, MS. GRIMES, THANK

03:06:46 YOU FOR LETTING ME EXPRESS MY OPINION.

03:06:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, COUNCILMAN

03:06:50 CARLSON.

03:06:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I THINK WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.

03:06:53 LET'S DO IT.

03:06:54 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON?

03:06:56 >>BILL CARLSON: SINCE COUNCILMAN VIERA IS LEAVING, THE

03:06:59 MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF THE DAY IS TO VOTE ON THE

03:07:02 UNDERLYING ISSUE TO MOVE THAT FORWARD.

03:07:04 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: VERY GOOD.

03:07:04 WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

03:07:06 YES, COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

03:07:07 YES, SIR.

03:07:09 YOU ARE MUTED, SIR.

03:07:10 YOU ARE MUTED.




03:07:12 WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.

03:07:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: CAN YOU STATE THAT MOTION AGAIN? I

03:07:20 WANT TO MAKE SURE I AM VOTING --

03:07:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU, MR. MIRANDA.

03:07:24 THE MOTION IS WE ARE DIRECTING THE LAW OFFICE AND MR.

03:07:32 SHELBY TO WORK TOGETHER TO DRAFT THE LANGUAGE THAT WOULD

03:07:34 GIVE THE CRB THE DISCRETION TO HIRE INDEPENDENT OR RETAIN

03:07:41 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND WE WOULD PUT THAT ON IN THE

03:07:44 CHARTER QUESTIONS FOR CITIZENS.

03:07:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

03:07:48 SECOND?

03:07:49 SECOND FROM VIERA?

03:07:52 NO?

03:07:52 COUNCILMAN CARLSON WITH THE SECOND.

03:07:54 ROLL CALL.

03:07:55 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

03:08:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

03:08:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

03:08:04 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

03:08:06 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES.

03:08:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YES.

03:08:11 >>LUIS VIERA: YES.

03:08:12 >>THE CLERK: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

03:08:13 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, DO YOU HAVE

03:08:15 ANOTHER MOTION TO THE SECOND PART?




03:08:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THE LAST MOTION VERY SIMILARLY WOULD

03:08:19 BE TO DIRECT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, MS. GRIMES, TO WORK

03:08:22 WITH MR. SHELBY, TO DRAFT LANGUAGE THAT WOULD PUT THE

03:08:27 LIMITED SUBPOENA POWER ON THE BALLOT 2022, AND I STATED

03:08:35 EARLIER THE LIMITATIONS, THE EXPRESS LIMITATIONS ON THE

03:08:39 SUBPOENA POWER.

03:08:42 BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

03:08:43 I AM GOING TO -- I AM GOING TO SAY THAT THAT'S THE

03:08:47 INTENT.

03:08:48 THE INTENT IS NOT TO SUBPOENA OFFICERS, AND THAT ANY

03:08:51 SUBPOENA THAT MIGHT ISSUE FROM THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO

03:08:55 THE REVIEW OF WHATEVER ATTORNEY IS SITTING WITH THAT

03:08:58 BOARD.

03:08:58 BUT THAT'S THE INTENT.

03:09:00 I WILL GIVE MR. SHELBY AND MS. GRIMES DISCRETION FOR THE

03:09:05 APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE AND BRING IT BACK TO US AT THE FIRST

03:09:07 MEETING IN APRIL.

03:09:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER HAS A MOTION.

03:09:11 DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

03:09:12 MRS. GRIMES?

03:09:14 >>GINA GRIMES: YES, ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THIS CAN BE DONE

03:09:18 AND BE BROUGHT BACK IN APRIL.

03:09:20 ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.

03:09:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: WHY DON'T WE MODIFY BOTH OF THOSE TO

03:09:28 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND THEN THIS MOTION IS LIMITED POWER




03:09:33 AND YOU CAN BRING IT BACK IN JUNE.

03:09:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: JUNE 3rd OR JUNE 17th.

03:09:38 LET'S DO JUNE 17th.

03:09:40 IS THAT ALL RIGHT?

03:09:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

03:09:41 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION --

03:09:46 >>GINA GRIMES: AND CHANGES THAT YOU WANT, WE WERE TALKING

03:09:50 ABOUT SCHEDULING THIS FOR FIRST READING ON MARCH

03:09:52 18th.

03:09:53 WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FORMAT THAT IT'S CURRENTLY

03:09:56 EXISTS.

03:09:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: LET'S VOTE ON THESE MOTIONS BEFORE

03:10:05 LUIS HAS TO LEAVE.

03:10:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

03:10:09 DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

03:10:10 SECOND.

03:10:13 SECOND?

03:10:15 WE HAVE A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN GUDES.

03:10:18 ANY DISCUSSION?

03:10:21 YES, SIR?

03:10:22 TURN YOUR MICROPHONE ON.

03:10:23 >>LUIS VIERA: I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT WE ARE

03:10:26 NOT BITING OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW ON THIS BOARD RIGHT

03:10:29 NOW BY PUTTING FORTH ALL THESE PROPOSALS AND I THINK WE B

03:10:32 COME AT RISK OF DOING THIS.




03:10:34 WHAT ARE WE GOING FORWARD WITH ON THIS?

03:10:36 I THINK WE NEED A LOT MORE DISCUSSION, ET CETERA.

03:10:38 I THINK THIS IS THE PART WHERE WE ARE WITH WALKING

03:10:40 FORWARD AND I GO, WAIT A SECOND.

03:10:43 JUST MY THOUGHTS.

03:10:43 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: VERY GOOD.

03:10:44 WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

03:10:46 SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN GUDES.

03:10:47 YES?

03:10:48 YES, SIR?

03:10:48 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I GAVE THE SECOND WITH RESPECT TOCK MY

03:10:53 COLLEAGUE.

03:10:53 BUT I THINK WE MADE A LOT OF CHANGES TODAY SO FAR.

03:10:59 WE KICKED THE FOOTBALL DOWN THE FIELD.

03:11:01 I THINK THE RECEIVER IS CATCHING IT AND IT'S GOING TO

03:11:03 COME BACK.

03:11:04 I THINK OTHER THINGS THAT WE ARE ASKING, THAT LEGAL IS

03:11:09 GETTING OVERLOADED, AND IT CAN BE FRUSTRATING.

03:11:12 I KNOW THEY WORKED VERY HARD.

03:11:14 I THINK THE OTHER CHARTER WE TALKED ABOUT SUBPOENA AND

03:11:16 THINGS LIKE THAT, AND BRING THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT LATER,

03:11:20 WE BRING THOSE THINGS BACK, AND BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION,

03:11:24 WHATEVER, WE CAN BRING THAT DOWN TO MAYBE LOOK AT THE

03:11:26 BALLOT, MR. DINGFELDER.

03:11:28 WE HAVE OVERLOADED THEM WITH A LOT TODAY.




03:11:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN VIERA NEEDS TO LEAVE AND

03:11:37 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER NEEDS TO LEAVE AT 3:30.

03:11:39 AM I CORRECT?

03:11:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: LET ME JUST RESPOND TO EVERYBODY.

03:11:43 THE ONLY REASON I AM SUGGESTING WE VOTE ON YOU NOW IS TO

03:11:47 TRY TO GET TO SOME FINALITY ON THIS.

03:11:49 EVERYBODY IS GETTING WORN OUT.

03:11:50 I DON'T THINK WE WANTS THIS TO DRAG ON ALL THE WAY INTO

03:11:54 2021 AND THEN 2022, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

03:11:57 THIS IS MERELY PUTTING IT ON THE BALLOT.

03:12:00 AND IF WE CAN'T TRUST THE CITIZENS TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR

03:12:03 US, THEN WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THE SUPREME COURT WHICH

03:12:07 JUST DECIDED THEY CAN'T TRUST THE CITIZENS MAKING

03:12:10 DECISIONS FOR US.

03:12:11 BUT ANYWAY, IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THIS IS JUST TO PUT IT ON

03:12:14 THE BALLOT.

03:12:15 AND I HAVE GIVEN TO THE DISCRETION TO MR. SHELBY AND MS.

03:12:19 GRIMES IN TERMS OF WHAT THAT LANGUAGE WILL BE.

03:12:21 BUT IT'S NOT TO SUBPOENA COPS.

03:12:24 IT'S NOT TO SUBPOENA COPS.

03:12:25 IT'S NOT TO SUBPOENA COPS.

03:12:26 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

03:12:29 >>BILL CARLSON: WITH THOSE EXPRESS LIMITATIONS --

03:12:35 [NO ENCODER]

03:12:46 [NO ENCODER]




03:12:46 >>LUIS VIERA: FEBRUARY I WILL BE MAKING MY AFT MOTION

03:13:01 THIS EVENING, AND PLEASE EXCUSE ME.

03:13:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IS THERE ONE FINAL MOTION, MR. CHAIR,

03:13:05 OR NOT YET.

03:13:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THE MOTION IS WITHDRAWN.

03:13:12 >>BILL CARLSON: WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION ON THE

03:13:16 OVERALL --

03:13:19 >>> WHO WANTS TO MAKE THE MOTION ON THE DRAFT?

03:13:22 >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT LEGAL WORK

03:13:26 WITH CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY TO COME UP WITH A DRAFT, A

03:13:31 REVISED DRAFT ORDINANCE FOR FIRST READING.

03:13:33 CAN WE SAY THAT, GINA, ON WHAT DATE?

03:13:36 JUNE 12th?

03:13:40 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NO, MARCH.

03:13:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THE CITY

03:13:43 ATTORNEY.

03:13:45 >>GINA GRIMES: I THINK MAY.

03:13:46 MAY.

03:13:47 >>BILL CARLSON: CAN I SAY FIRST READING?

03:13:51 >>GINA GRIMES: ABSOLUTELY NOT.

03:13:54 I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE AMOUNT OF WORK

03:13:57 INVOLVED IN DRAFTING IT, AND THEN MEETING WITH MR. SHELBY

03:14:04 AND MAKING SURE ALL THE OTHERS --

03:14:07 >>BILL CARLSON: TELL US WHEN WE CAN DO IT.

03:14:12 WHEN IS THE BEST DATE?




03:14:13 WHEN CAN WE SAY?

03:14:16 >>GINA GRIMES: DO IT IN MAY.

03:14:17 >>BILL CARLSON: MAY 20th.

03:14:21 CAN WE HAVE THAT FOR FIRST READING OR NOT?

03:14:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: COUNCIL, YOU WILL SEE THAT -- MRS.

03:14:26 GRIMES, DID YOU SAY YES?

03:14:27 I'M SORRY.

03:14:28 >>GINA GRIMES: YES.

03:14:29 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

03:14:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT?

03:14:40 I'M SORRY.

03:14:40 YOUR MICROPHONE WAS OFF.

03:14:44 >>GINA GRIMES: MAY 20th.

03:14:45 >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT CITY

03:14:48 ATTORNEY AND CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY WORK TOGETHER TO A

03:14:51 REVISED ORDINANCE TO PRESENT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR FIRST

03:14:53 READING ON MAY 20th.

03:14:55 >> SECOND.

03:14:58 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION BY CARLSON. SECONDED BY

03:14:59 COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

03:14:59 ROLL CALL VOTE.

03:15:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.

03:15:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES.

03:15:08 >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

03:15:09 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES.




03:15:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YES.

03:15:14 >>LUIS VIERA: YES.

03:15:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.

03:15:16 >>THE CLERK: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

03:15:17 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GREAT.

03:15:18 ANY OTHER CRB?

03:15:20 THAT'S IT.

03:15:21 WE ARE DONE WITH CRB.

03:15:28 FIVE-MINUTE RECESS.

03:15:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I WOULD ASK BEFORE YOU BREAK,

03:15:31 MR. CHAIRMAN, BEFORE YOU BREAK, JUST WHAT IS YOUR INTENT

03:15:33 FOR THE REST OF THE DAY KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE A 5:00

03:15:36 MEETING?

03:15:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I TRIED TO SPEAK BUT WE HAVE 3 AND

03:15:42 4.

03:15:42 WE START AT 5:00.

03:15:43 SO I HOPE WE ARE DONE NO LATER, YOU KNOW, 4:15 OR SO,

03:15:48 MAYBE 4:00.

03:15:49 SO WE'LL TRY OUR BEST.

03:15:52 REMEMBER, I'M THE QUIET BEETLE.

03:15:55 WE ARE IN RECESS FIVE MINUTES.

03:15:59 (CITY COUNCIL RECESS).

03:16:01

03:29:10 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WELCOME BACK.

03:31:26 ROLL CALL, PLEASE.




03:31:27 >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.

03:31:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.

03:31:32 >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.

03:31:33 >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.

03:31:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.

03:31:36 >>THE CLERK: A PHYSICAL QUORUM.

03:31:40 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE ITEMS 3 AND 4

03:31:44 FOR CONTINUANCE, AND ALSO INFORMATION REFERENCE TO ITEM

03:31:49 NUMBER 4.

03:31:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WAIT, WAIT, LET ME GET A DATE.

03:31:53 YOU WANT TO MOVE THEM TO -- WE HAVE A WORKSHOP ON THE

03:31:59 25th.

03:32:01 IT'S A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

03:32:03 THEN A PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN.

03:32:04 THEN WE HAVE A NIGHT MEETING WITH NINE PLAN AMENDMENT

03:32:07 ADOPTIONS AND ONE TRANSMITTAL.

03:32:09 SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE.

03:32:11 IT COULD BE A LIGHT NIGHT.

03:32:13 COULD BE NOT.

03:32:14 BUT WE HAVE THAT.

03:32:15 IF NOT, WE HAVE AN OPEN, WIDE OPEN APRIL 22ND CITY

03:32:19 COUNCIL WORKSHOP AT 9:00 A.M.

03:32:23 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN GUDES, MR. CHAIR.

03:32:25 IF WE GO AHEAD AND MOVE TO THAT DATE BUT PUT IT NUMBER

03:32:28 ONE AND NUMBER TWO ON THE AGENDA.




03:32:29 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YES, SIR.

03:32:31 SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES TO CONTINUE ITEMS

03:32:34 3 AND 4 TO APRIL 22ND FOR ITEMS 1 AND 2 ON THE WORKSHOP

03:32:39 AGENDA.

03:32:40 DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

03:32:43 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I'LL SECOND THAT.

03:32:45 I'M LOOKING AT EVERYBODY THAT IS ON MY SCREEN RIGHT HERE,

03:32:48 CATE WELLS, ABBYE FEELEY, CAPTAIN OWENS AND EVERYBODY IN

03:32:51 THE ROOM STARING AT THE CAMERA SAYING WHAT ARE WE DOING

03:32:54 NOW?

03:32:54 WE ONLY HAVE FOUR COUNCIL PEOPLE HERE.

03:32:59 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN MIRANDA IS FIVE.

03:33:03 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I FEEL THIS IS GOING TO BE NOT A LENGTHY

03:33:06 DISCUSSION BUT A VERY IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION, AND I KNOW FOR

03:33:10 ONE I AM GOING TO BE ASKING FOR CHANGES, AND I FEEL THAT

03:33:14 IT WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF WE HAVE SEVEN THAT ARE PRESENT

03:33:16 DURING THESE DISCUSSIONS.

03:33:17 SO I HOPE EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM IS LOOKING AT THE CAMERA

03:33:20 SAYING, WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT?

03:33:22 PLEASE ACCEPT THIS CONTINUANCE.

03:33:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND MR. CHAIRMAN, AND COUNCILMAN CITRO,

03:33:26 IF I CAN,

03:33:29 THIS MAY VERY WELL DOVETAIL INTO THE 9:30 WORKSHOP ON THE

03:33:33 25th, BECAUSE DEPENDING ON WHAT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT

03:33:38 CODES ARE, THE AMENDMENTS PROPOSED BY THE ADMINISTRATION,




03:33:41 THAT MAY HAVE AN EFFECT ON WHAT ULTIMATE LIMB YOU DECIDE

03:33:43 TO DO WITH YOUR ISSUES.

03:33:46 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I AM GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

03:33:48 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. COUNSEL.

03:33:49 AND MR. CHAIRMAN.

03:33:50 SO I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY THAT IS LOOKING AT US WILL

03:33:53 UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THAT PERSPECTIVE.

03:33:57 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN CITRO.

03:33:59 ALL IN FAVOR?

03:34:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MS. FEELEY WANTS TO ASK A QUESTION.

03:34:03 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YOU ARE MUTED.

03:34:05 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I WANTED TO KNOW THEN WHERE IT WENT.

03:34:08 APRIL 22ND?

03:34:12 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: APRIL 22ND, 9:00 A.M. WORKSHOP.

03:34:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: ITEMS 1 AND 2.

03:34:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TWO ITEMS, 1 AND

03:34:19 2.

03:34:20 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: FIRST ON THE AGENDA.

03:34:21 THANK YOU.

03:34:22 >>ABBYE FEELEY: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

03:34:23 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.

03:34:25 SECOND BY COUNCILMAN CITRO.

03:34:26 ALL IN FAVOR?

03:34:27 ANY OPPOSED?

03:34:30 ALL RIGHT.




03:34:30 CAN WE SAVE NEW BUSINESS UNTIL THIS EVENING?

03:34:34 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES, SIR.

03:34:34 FOR ME, YES.

03:34:35 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THEN WE ARE IN RECESS UNTIL 5:01

03:34:38 P.M.

03:34:50 (CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP CONCLUDED.)

03:35:33

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