TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY, MAY 20, 2021
9:00 A.M.



DISCLAIMER:

THIS FILE REPRESENTS AN UNEDITED VERSION OF REALTIME
CAPTIONING WHICH SHOULD NEITHER BE RELIED UPON FOR COMPLETE
ACCURACY NOR USED AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT.
ANY PERSON WHO NEEDS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE
PROCEEDINGS MAY NEED TO HIRE A COURT REPORTER.



09:10:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GOOD MORNING CITIZENS OF TAMPA, TAMPA CITY

COUNCIL.

TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WILL NOW COME TO ORDER, MAY 20, 2021

MEETING.

WE WILL HAVE THE INVOCATION.

09:10:38 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THE MICROPHONE IS NOW ON.

RABBI MENDY IS ALWAYS HONORED TO COME HERE AND GIVE THE

INVOCATION AND I AM GLAD TO SEE HIS FACE TODAY.

I WISH HE WOULD BE HERE IN PERSON, HOWEVER.

RABBI MENDY WAS RAISED IN TAMPA, DID HIS ORDINATION IN

BROOKLYN.

THE RABBI WAS HIRED AS THE FIRST JEWISH CHAPLAIN TO WORK

WITH THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT BACK IN 2018.

HE IS A RABBI OF CHABAD CHAI OF SOUTH TAMPA.

THANK YOU FOR COMING IN AND GIVING US THE INVOCATION TODAY.

IF EVERYONE WOULD PLEASE RISE AND REMAIN STANDING.

FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.




RABBI.

09:11:29 >> THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN.

LET US PRAY.

MASTER OF THE WORLD, LOOK FAVORABLY UPON THIS COUNCIL, THE

TAMPA CITY COUNCIL.

BLESS THEM WITH GOOD HEALTH, WISDOM AND COMPASSION THAT THEY

MAY ENACT JUST LAWS ACCORDING TO YOUR WILL.

BLESS OUR DISTINGUISHED COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

LET OUR MEMBERS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CHOSEN BY THOUSANDS OF

PEOPLE WHO HAVE PLACED THEIR FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN THEM TO

MAKE LAWS AND DECISIONS ON BEHALF OF THE RESIDENTS OF OUR

GREAT CITY.

LET US ALL RECOGNIZE THAT THEY HOLD THE GOD-GIVEN POSITION,

THE PERFORMANCE OF ONE OF THE 7 UNIVERSAL LAWS GIVEN TO

NOAH, THE FATHER OF ALL HUMANITY, TO ENSURE A PEACEFUL AND

MORAL SOCIETY GOVERNED BY THE RULE OF LAW.

BLESS OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE

MILITARY WHO CONSTANTLY SACRIFICE FOR THE FREEDOM WE

CHERISH.

PROTECT THEM.

RETURN THEM SAFELY TO THEIR FAMILIES.

TODAY WE FIND OUR HOME LAND ISRAEL IN CONFLICT, WITH HAMAS

AND GAZA.

THE LOSS OF EACH ONE HUMAN LIFE IS AN UNFATHOMABLE TRAGEDY

AND WE MOURN THE LOSS OF DOZENS OF PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THIS




CONFLICT.

WE PRAY THAT ALL PEOPLES IN THE REGION FIND TRUE PEACE SO

THEY MAY LIVE IN HARMONY WITH EACH OTHER SIDE BY SIDE.

HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, WE TOO ARE STRUGGLING WITH

CONFLICT IN THE FORM OF BIGOTRY, RACISM, ANTI-SEMITISM, AND

HATE IN ANY FORM.

LET US USE THE POWER OF SPEECH TO UNITE AND NEVER DIVIDE.

WE KNOW THAT YOU, DEAR GOD, GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE SO

LET US BE MINDFUL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTIONS.

LET US ALL FIND THE INHERENT GOODNESS IN EACH OTHER AND

POSITIVELY ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER TO FULFILL OUR CHARGE FROM

THE ALMIGHTY TO PERFECT THE WORLDS UNDER HIS SOVEREIGNTY.

IN THIS WAY WE CAN ALL BRING LIGHT IN PLACE OF DARKNESS,

REDEMPTION IN PLACE OF DESPAIR, AND HAPPINESS AND PEACE TO

ALL WHO SEEK IT, AND LET US SAY AMEN.

[ PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ]

09:13:39 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU AGAIN, RABBI.

09:13:41 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MADAM DEPUTY CLERK, ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

09:13:45 >>BILL CARLSON:
HERE.

09:13:47 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
HERE.

09:13:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
HERE.

09:13:50 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE.

09:13:52 >>LUIS VIERA:
HERE.

09:13:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HERE.

09:13:55 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HERE.




09:13:56 >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.

09:13:58 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, DO YOU WANT TO GO WITH THE

PUBLIC COMMENT RULES NOW OR GO TO THE ADDENDUM AND APPROVAL

OF THE AGENDA?

09:14:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

GOOD MORNING.

MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL, MARTIN SHELBY, THE CITY COUNCIL

ATTORNEY.

TODAY IS THURSDAY, MAY 20th OF 2021.

WE ARE HERE IN OLD CITY HALL AT 3:15 EAST KENNEDY BOULEVARD.

STILL DURING THE COVID-19 STATE OF EMERGENCY AND THIS

MEETING IS BEING CONDUCTED WITH A LIVE IN-PERSON QUORUM OF

THE CITY COUNCIL PRESENT IN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS AS YOU

JUST HEARD.

HOWEVER, IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS MEMBERS OF

THE PUBLIC ARE ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE VIRTUALLY THROUGH

VIDEO TELECONFERENCING REFERENCE REFERRED TO HAVE BY FLORIDA

STATUTES AND RULES AS COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA TECHNOLOGY OR

CMT.

TODAY'S MEETING IS BEING HELD IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE

EMERGENCY RULES OF PROCEDURE AS ADOPTED BY RESOLUTION NUMBER

2020-225, AND AS AMENDED BY RESOLUTION NUMBER 2024-09 AND

RESOLUTION 2021-241.

THE PUBLIC AND THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA ARE ABLE TO WATCH,

LISTEN AND VIEW THIS MEETING ON SPECTRUM CHANNEL 640,




FRONTIER CHANNEL 15, AND LIVESTREAM ON THE INTERNET AT

TAMPA.GOV/LIVESTREAM.

NOW, THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE ABLE TO VIRTUALLY

PARTICIPATE IN MULTIPLE WAYS.

FOR INSTANCE, ONE IS BY SENDING WRITTEN COMMENTS BY INTERNET

OR WEB OR COMMENTS BY E-MAIL OR U.S. MAIL, AND TO SPEAK

REMOTELY DURING PUBLIC COMMENT USING CMT.

ALSO TO PARTICIPATE USING CMT AVAILABLE AT OLD CITY HALL.

WITH REGARD TO SPEAKING REMOTELY, ALL THAT INFORMATION IS ON

THE CITY'S WEBSITE, AND YOU CAN ACCESS THAT BY GOING TO

TAMPA.GOV/CITY COUNCIL, ONE WORD, AND THERE YOU WILL FIND

ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS.

NOW, IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE, USING CMT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A

PARTICULAR TYPE OF DEVICE.

YOU CANNOT USE A PHONE EXCEPT FOR TALKING FOR PUBLIC

COMMENT.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING IN THE QUASI-JUDICIAL

SECOND READINGS TODAY, YOU WOULD NEED EITHER A LAPTOP, A

TABLET OR A DESKTOP.

BUT AGAIN, THOSE INSTRUCTIONS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE.

NOW THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO

COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA DEVICE DO HAVE THE OPTION OF

PARTICIPATING VIA CMT WHICH IS BEING MADE AVAILABLE TO THE

PUBLIC BY THE CITY OF TAMPA DURING TODAY'S MEETING HERE AT

OLD CITY HALL, 315 EAST KENNEDY BOULEVARD, ON THE SECOND




FLOOR.

PLEASE NOTE THAT USE OF MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING INSIDE

THIS BUILDING ARE ENCOURAGED.

COUNCIL, COMMENTS RECEIVED TO A PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HEARD

WHEN IT APPEARS ON THE AGENDA, AND AGAIN, FOR WRITTEN

COMMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE SUBMITTED, THERE IS A DEADLINE

TO BE ABLE TO SUBMIT THEM BEFORE COUNCIL, AND PUBLIC

COMMENTS RECEIVED TIMELY BY MAIL, E-MAIL, WEB OR CMT WILL BE

AFFORDED EQUAL CONSIDERATION AS IF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS WERE

MADE IN PERSON.

ONE LAST WORD, PLEASE, TO THE PUBLIC, THAT THE CHAT FUNCTION

ON THE PLATFORM GO TO MEETING IS NOT TO BE USED BY THE

PUBLIC TO COMMUNICATE TO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

IT'S ONLY TO BE USED FOR TECHNICAL ISSUES.

PLEASE DO NOT USE THE CHAT FUNCTION TO COMMUNICATE ANYTHING

OTHER THAN TECHNICAL ISSUE.

THAT BEING SAID, MR. CHAIRMAN, I TURN THE MEETING BACK TO

YOU AND I THANK YOU.

09:17:29 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE HAVE A LOT OF HOUSEKEEPING THIS

MORNING, GENTLEMEN.

MR. SHELBY, RECEIVED A MEMORANDUM FROM MR. DINGFELDER,

CONSENT AGENDA ITEM FOR 15, 16, 38, 40.

THOSE UNDER STAFF REPORTS.

09:17:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES, SIR.




IF I CAN CLARIFY MY REQUEST ON THAT.

IN REGARD TO 15 AND 16, I WOULD JUST ASK THE COMMITTEE CHAIR

FOR A SEPARATE VOTE ON THOSE TWO ITEMS.

AND IN REGARD TO ITEM 38, I GOT MY ANSWER YESTERDAY EVENING

FROM MR. BAIRD AND SAL, AND I AM GOOD ON 38.

YOU CAN STRIKE THAT ONE.

IN REGARD TO 40, THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE SCOOTERS.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT TO STAFF REPORTS TO GO OVER

THEIR REPORT BEFORE WE RE-UP THE SCOOTERS.

09:18:31 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I SEE MR. BENNETT WAS IN THE AUDIENCE.

09:18:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
HE'S HIDING BEHIND MR. SHE WILL BY.

09:18:36 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IF YOU CAN GIVE THE FOLKS A CALL ABOUT THE

STAFF REPORTS.

09:18:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
JUST NEED VIK ON ITEM 40.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

09:18:46 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE ALSO HAVE -- MR. SHELBY, DO YOU WANT TO

GO DOWN THE LINE, SIR? WE HAVE ITEM NUMBER 1 TO BE REMOVED

TO THE JUNE 24th WORKSHOP.

09:19:02 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

09:19:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE WILL REMOVE THAT ITEM.

MOTION BY CITRO, SECOND BY MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ALL OPPOSED?

MOTION CARRIED.

ALL RIGHT.




MR. SHELBY, DO YOU HAVE A RESOLUTION FOR ADOPTION FOR

APPROVAL OF MAY 6th?

09:19:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I CAN DO THAT UNDER NEW BUSINESS.

I PROVIDED THOSE RESOLUTIONS TO THE CLERK.

JUST RATIFYING WHAT COUNCIL HAS PREVIOUSLY DONE MAKING THEIR

APPOINTMENTS.

SO WE CAN DO THAT UNDER NEW BUSINESS.

UNLESS COUNCIL WANTS TO JUST DO IT RIGHT NOW.

YOUR CHOICE, MR. CHAIRMAN.

IT'S JUST A MOTION TO MOVE THE RESOLUTION.

09:19:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
GET IT OVER WITH, I'LL MOVE THE

RESOLUTION FOR APPOINTMENTS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY COUNCIL

FROM MAY 6th.

09:20:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY MR. DINGFELDER.

SECOND BY MR. CARLSON.

ALL IN FAVOR?

OPPOSED?

MOTION CARRIED.

WE HAVE MEMORANDUM OF REMOVAL OF ITEM NUMBER 49.

09:20:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT IS A 10:30 PUBLIC

HEARING, SO IT HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.

WE COULD ANNOUNCE IT AT 10:30 AND ACCEPT THAT AT THAT TIME.

CERTAINLY THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR NOTICING THE PUBLIC,

IF COUNCIL WISHES TO ACCEPT IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT'S

CERTAINLY DOABLE AND WE CAN MAKE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT ITEM




49 HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN WHEN THE TIME COMES.

09:20:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE'LL DO IT WHEN WE OPEN.

09:20:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.

09:20:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LET'S GO TO CONSENT WITH THE STAFF

REPORTS.

I WANT TO GO DOWN EACH ITEM AND MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO

INFORMATION THAT SOMEONE HASN'T SEEN AND TALKED TO, MAKE

SURE FOLKS ARE AVAILABLE, IF NOT LET THEM GO.

ITEM NUMBER 51.

CONTINUE ON THAT.

09:21:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M SORRY, I DID HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO

SPEAK WITH THE MAKER OF THE MOTION SUBSEQUENT TO MAKING THIS

REQUEST FOR THE CONTINUANCE.

I HAD ANTICIPATED MAY 27th AND I AM GOING TO BE ASKING

FOR ADDITIONAL TIME IF COUNCIL DOES ALLOW ME.

IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO THE MAKER OF THE MOTION.

09:21:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AS THE MAKER OF THE MOTION, THERE'S NO

URGENCY ON THIS.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME RESEARCH.

SO I'M OKAY WITH A WORKSHOP, LET'S SIGH, I DON'T KNOW --

09:22:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF YOU WANT, I CAN DO IT UNDER STAFF

REPORT ON A STAFF DAY AS A MEMORANDUM, AND IF COUNCIL WANTS

TO SET IT FOR A WORKSHOP AFTER THAT, IT CERTAINLY CAN.

09:22:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SO A STAFF REPORT IN MID AUGUST, MADAM

CLERK?




09:22:13 >>THE CLERK:
THE NEXT REGULAR SESSION IS AUGUST 26th.

09:22:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I DON'T THINK I NEED THAT MUCH TIME.

09:22:24 >>THE CLERK:
AUGUST 5th IS THE FIRST ONE IN AUGUST.

09:22:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AUGUST 5th?

THAT'S RIGHT AFTER -- WELL, I GUESS NOT RIGHT AFTER OUR

BREAK.

09:22:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF COUNCIL WISHES, I CAN DO IT SOONER THAN

THAT, IF IT'S COUNCIL'S PLEASURE.

OF COURSE YOU HAVE A TWO-WEEK BREAK. I WANT TO REMIND

COUNCIL, THE SUMMER RECESS.

09:22:45 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

09:22:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY, LET'S DOUBLE CHECK THAT WITH THE

CLERK.

THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

09:23:04 >>THE CLERK:
WE DO HAVE ONE SCHEDULED FOR 9 A.M., LAND

DEVELOPMENT.

09:23:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT WOULD BE FINE.

09:23:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
JUNE 24th IT IS.

09:23:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
9 A.M. THEN?

09:23:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
9 A.M.

09:23:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.

09:23:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK FOR A SECOND TO

52.

WHAT WE JUST DID WAS TO SEND THIS TO THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT

FOR REVIEW FOR THIS QUESTION OF HIRING, RETAIN OUTSIDE




INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

I CORRECT?

09:23:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I THINK WE HAVE TO FINISH 51.

SO 51, MY MOTION IS JUNE 24th AT 9:00 A.M.

09:23:49 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY DINGFELDER, SECOND BY CARLSON.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

09:23:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M SORRY, MR. MIRANDA.

09:23:57 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, ITEM 52.

09:24:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT UP NOW IT MAY BE

APPROPRIATE TO TAKE IT UP BECAUSE THERE'S A MEMORANDUM FROM

CITY ATTORNEY GINA GRIMES TALKING ABOUT THE CRB, SO THAT'S

ALSO INCLUDED IN ITEM 52.

AND IT'S ALSO ON THE ADDENDUM AS WELL.

SO IF YOU WANT TO HOLD THAT FOR DISCUSSION, I AM PREPARED TO

DISCUSS IT NOW, BUT IF COUNCIL WANTS TO DISCUSS IT AT THE

TIME YOU TAKE UP THE ITEMS, THAT'S ALSO FINE, TOO.

09:24:29 >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIR, WITH THIS AND ALSO THE -- SORRY,

WE ARE GETTING FEEDBACK, BUT THIS AND THE SUBPOENA POWER

ISSUE, I THINK WE OUGHT TO SET A DATE, LIKE SIX MONTHS

BEFORE THE ELECTION TO HAVE A WORKSHOP ON CHARTER

ENDMENTS.

LIKE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT HOW SOME OF US ON THE CHARTER

REVIEW COMMISSION DIDN'T REMEMBER THAT WE VOTED ON THE ISSUE

OF THE MAYOR APPROVING COMMITTEES THAT COUNCIL SET UP AND




VICE VERSA, AND WE STILL HAVE TO GO BACK AND DO SOME

RESEARCH TO SEE WHERE IT CAME FROM, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT

THERE MAY BE SEVERAL THINGS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO PROPOSE AS

CHARTER AMENDMENTS AND WE SHOULD DISCUSS THEM ALL IN CON

DETECT.

THE UNDERLAYING ISSUE ON SUBPOENAS FROM LEGAL COUNCIL IS IF

CITY COUNCIL, EACH THOUGH WE HAVE INVESTIGATIVE AUTHORITY,

THAT WE DON'T SPECIFICALLY HAVE SUBPOENA POWER SO THERE

WOULD BE A LONG DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER A CHARTER AMENDMENT

SHOULD BE SPECIFICALLY FOR CRB OR SHOULD BE FOR CITY COUNCIL

TO CLARIFY THE MOTION, I MEAN THE CHARTER.

SO THE POINT IS IF WE HAD A MEETING SIX MONTHS OR SO BEFORE

THE ELECTION, WE COULD SCHEDULE ALL THOSE CHARTERS AT ONCE,

HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WANT

TO PUT ON THE BALLOT, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THIS OUTSIDE

ATTORNEY, WHICH WOULD BE AS I UNDERSTAND IT A CHARTER ISSUE

ALSO.

09:25:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I UNDERSTAND THE POSITION YOU ARE TAKING.

I JUST HAVE A CONCERN, SIX MONTHS OUT FROM AN ELECTION.

I THINK, MR. SHELBY, YOU HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO MEET WITH

MRS. GRIMES IN REGARD TO A CHARTER OR SPECIAL WORKSHOP

REGARDING THE CHARTER, CORRECT?

09:26:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH

THE CITY ATTORNEY REGARDING THIS, AND SHE HAS OFFERED AND I

HAVE AGREED AND I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA THAT SHE AND




I WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS -- AND I SAID IN MY MEMO -- THE

ISSUES.

LANGUAGE OF THE CITY CHARTER TO RECONCILE ANY POTENTIAL

CONFLICTS AND PROVISIONS THAT MAY BE REVEALED THROUGH THAT

PROCESS OF THE REVIEW.

I THINK IT'S A NECESSARY PREDICATE BEFORE WE START TALKING

ABOUT SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES IN THE CHARTER SO WE UNDERSTAND AND

COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS WHAT ITS PARAMETERS ARE.

SO THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION PERHAPS NECESSARY IN

ADVANCE OF WHAT COUNCILMEMBER DINGFELDER -- EXCUSE ME,

CARLSON IS PROPOSING.

09:26:54 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER?

09:26:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SO I LIKE THE IDEA GENERALLY, MR.

CARLSON.

I THINK THAT SIX MONTHS IS A LITTLE TIGHT TO THE ELECTION,

BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT TO GIVE IT OVER TO THE SUPERVISOR AND

GET THE BALLOTS PRINTED UP AND ALL THAT STUFF.

SO I THINK IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, I WOULD

SUGGEST START A YEAR OUT.

THEN THAT WAY MAYBE IT'S DONE A FEW MONTHS LATER, AND GIVE

THE SUPERVISOR PLENTY OF TIME TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE

BALLOT.

BUT IT'S NOT JUST THIS ISSUE.

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL ISSUES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS WHERE

WE KIND OF SCRATCH OUR HEADS AND WE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?




MAYBE WE NEED TO TWEAK THE CHARTER TO ADDRESS THAT.

AND I CAN THINK OF THREE OR FOUR OTHER TIMES WE HAVE DONE

THAT.

SO IT'S NOT JUST THE CRB ISSUE.

AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ORDINANCE

TODAY, AND PUT THAT TO BED IF POSSIBLE, AND JUST LIKE WE

VOTED ON IT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO 6 TO 1, YOU KNOW, I THINK

EVERYBODY IS DONE WITH IT, LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH THE

ORDINANCE TODAY, AND WE CAN PUT OFF ANY OF THESE CHARTER

ISSUES TILL A YEAR BEFORE THE ELECTION, WHICH WOULD BE ABOUT

A YEAR FROM NOW.

09:28:13 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

09:28:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I HAVE TO SAY WHAT MR. DINGFELDER SAID

MAKES IN MY VIEW, ANYWAY, COMMON SENSE.

THERE WAS AN ARTICLE, I BELIEVE, IN WEDNESDAY'S "TAMPA BAY

TIMES" REGARDING -- AND I DIDN'T READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE --

LIKE THIS WHERE THE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE ARE GOING TO

HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION WHICH WAY THEY ARE GOING TO GO.

AND I THINK THE SOONER WE HANDLE THIS, THE BETTER WE ARE.

AND LET THE PUBLIC STUDY, NOT ONLY ON THE CHARTER AMENDMENT

BUT WHO IS GOING TO SERVE.

AND THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN WATCHING AND

LOOKING AT.

AND IT'S AN ITEM THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.




SO WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE HAVING THIS COME BEFORE

US ON THESE BASES.

SO WE ALSO, MY CONTINUING THESE THINGS AS FAR AS THIS, YOU

HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE SEEKING TO

BECOME POLICE OFFICERS OR SHERIFFS OR WHATEVER IN LAW

ENFORCEMENT, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO WE ARE EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE TODAY, I HOPE, TO

SAY THIS IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO, THIS IS NOT WHAT WE ARE

GOING TO DO, WE GOT ELECTED TO MAKE THE CHOICES AND LATER ON

IF THE PUBLIC -- THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO

VOTE ON ALL OF THIS, WHOEVER IS SEEKING OFFICE.

SO THAT WOULD BE ONE OF YOUR POINTS, TO SPEAK TO THE PUBLIC,

ANY WAY YOU FEEL, NOT MINE BUT YOURS.

ALL OF US HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND I RESPECT THAT.

BUT I THINK IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT'S

VERY VIABLE, AND THAT'S CALLED LAW.

YOU HAVE LAW.

YOU HAVE LAWYERS.

YOU HAVE JUDGES.

AND AT THE END, THE ONES THAT START THE PROCESS OF ENFORCING

THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SWORN

OFFICERS NO MATTER WHERE YOU WORK AT, WHETHER IT'S THE CITY,

THE COUNTY, AND THE FBI, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE

ENFORCING THE LAW.

SO FOR THE CHARACTER OF THEM TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE




A DECISION IN WHICH WAY THEIR LIFE IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE

LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICE OARS, FEDERAL, COUNTY, STATE, OTHERS,

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION WHETHER THEY WANT

TO APPLY FOR A JOB OR NOT APPLY FOR A JOB.

I CAN TELL YOU FROM WHAT I HAVE READ IT'S GETTING TURF AND

TOUGHER TO RECRUIT IDES INDIVIDUALS TO GO INTO LAW

ENFORCEMENT.

AND THE REASON IS THAT THEY ARE JUDGED ON SOMETHING THAT'S

100th OF A SECOND OF A DECISION TO MAKE THAT YOU AND I

DON'T HAVE TO MAKE.

SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE DEALT WITH

ON A DAILY BASIS AND I THINK THE PUBLIC DESERVES TO HAVE

SOMETHING DONE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

09:30:49 >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

YES, I THINK REGARDLESS WHERE YOU STAND SUBSTANTIVELY ON

THESE ISSUES, HEARING FROM CITY COUNCIL TODAY BEFORE WE

BEGIN TO ENTERTAIN A PROCESS ON EVERY ISSUE, I HAVE COME OUT

ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THESE ISSUES, I JUST THINK MAKES

SENSE.

BEFORE WE BEGIN A PROCESS.

I THINK THAT HAS NO RELEVANCY TO WHERE SOMEBODY STANDS ON

IT.

AGAIN JUST TALKING ABOUT IT BEFORE WE BEGIN A PROCESS, I

DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.




IN OTHER WORDS, HAVING THIS DISCUSSION WHEN WE LOOK AT THE

WHOLE CRB ISSUE, TODAY, LOOK AT IT HOLISTICALLY, I THINK,

MAKES SENSE.

IF I AM READING EVERYBODY RIGHT, COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, DIDN'T

WE VOTE ON THIS ISSUE IF I AM READING EVERYONE RIGHT?

09:31:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

09:31:33 >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST FOR ANYBODY WATCHING, BECAUSE THERE

ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THIS SUBJECT, FOR SOME

REASON, THE CRB ORDINANCE WAS NOT PUT ON THE AGENDA, WAS NOT

PUT IN THE ONLINE INFORMATION, SO IT'S NOT ONE OF THE

NUMBERED ITEMS THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.

SO IF SOMEBODY WATCHING MAY THINK THAT 52 IS ABOUT THE

ORDINANCE BUT IT'S NOT.

IT'S ABOUT A PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT REGARDING LEGAL

COUNCIL.

BUT SINCE IT'S A CHARTER AMENDMENT, WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE --

AND THE ORDINANCE HAS BECOME A WALK-ON ITEM WHICH WILL BE

SEPARATELY DISCUSSED, I THINK, DEPENDING IF WE ARE GIVEN

PROPER NOTICE.

BUT ITEM 52 IS PART OF CHARTER AMENDMENT DISCUSSIONS, AND I

CAN MAKE A MOTION NOW OR LATER TO EITHER MOVE IT, THE

WORKSHOP IN FEBRUARY IS FEBRUARY 24th.

I COULD MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE THIS ITEM AS A CHARTER

PROPOSAL TO FEBRUARY 24th, AND/OR WE COULD MAKE A MOTION

TO PROPOSE THAT ALL CHARTER AMENDMENT DISCUSSIONS BE HELD ON




FEBRUARY 24th.

DO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE THE MOTION OR WAIT?

09:32:36 >>GINA GRIMES:
MAY I?

GINA GRIMES, CITY ATTORNEY.

I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING.

MR. SHELBY AND I DID SPEAK ABOUT THIS REQUESTED CHARTER

ENDMENT, AND OUR DISCUSSION WAS THAT CHARTER AMENDMENTS

SHOULD BE LOOKED AT HOLISTICALLY, NOT JUST PIECEMEAL WHERE

YOU AMEND ONE SECTION OF THE CHARTER WITHOUT CONSIDERING HOW

IT AFFECTS OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CHARTER.

I THINK THAT'S A GOOD PRACTICE.

I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, THOUGH, THAT I DID NOT ENDORSE

HOLISTICALLY LOOKING AT THE CHARTER AGAIN BECAUSE THAT'S IN

FACT AS YOU WELL KNOW WAS THE FUNCTION OF THE CHARTER REVIEW

COMMISSION THAT WAS JUST IMPANELED, AND THE CHARTER

ENDMENTS FROM THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION AS, MR. CITRO,

THOSE WERE ON THE 2018 BALLOT, AND WERE ALL APPROVED.

AND I KNOW YOU HAVE CONCERNS, ALL OF YOU HAVE EXPRESSED

CONCERNS TO ME ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT

ARE NOW IN THE CHARTER WERE ACTUALLY DISCUSSED AND VOTED

UPON, AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I HAVE, AS WELL AS ANDREA

ZELMAN, GONE BACK NOT ONLY AND LOOKED AT THE MINUTES FROM

THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, BUT WE ALSO EVALUATED

LISTENING TO THE AUDIO TAPES FROM ALL OF THE CHARTER REVIEW

COMMISSION HEARINGS, AND THEN I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT IN




THE END, YOU ALL DID A SUMMARY.

THAT SUMMARY OF THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS WAS PRESENTED TO CITY

COUNCIL AND TO THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.

THOSE WERE CONSIDERED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AT A WORKSHOP.

THEY WERE REVIEWED AGAIN AT THE END OF THE WORKSHOP.

NOT EVERY CHARTER AMENDMENT GOT PLACED ON THE BALLOT.

IT WAS DECIDED WHICH ONES WOULD GET PLACED ON THE BALLOT,

AND THEN THEY WERE SUBSEQUENTLY PUT ON THE BALLOT.

SO I DON'T WANT -- I KNOW THAT THERE WAS A CONCERN EXPRESSED

BY SOME OF THESE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, AREN'T THE SAME AS WHAT

YOU RECOLLECTED, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU BASED ON THE REVIEW

THAT WE DID THAT THEY ARE IN FACT WHAT YOU DISCUSSED, AND

THEY WERE VETTED THROUGH SEVERAL DIFFERENT HEARING

PROCESSES.

AGAIN, I'M JUST MENTIONING ALL THAT BECAUSE THE PURPOSE OF

THAT CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION WAS TO LOOK AT THE CHARTER

HOLISTICALLY, AND IT INCLUDED CITIZENS, ALL OF YOU WERE

CITIZENS AT THE TIME AND YOU SERVED ON THAT COMMITTEE, AS

DID ANDREA ZELMAN AND SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE INTENDING TO DO IS BASICALLY TO

SUPPLANT THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION BY HAVING A

DISCUSSION ON THE CHARTER, OR IF YOU WANTED -- IF YOU ARE

GOING TO LOOK AT THE CHARTER HOLISTICALLY OR ONLY WITH

RESPECT TO THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

09:35:14 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CARLSON.




09:35:20 >>BILL CARLSON:
NOT TO REBUT BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD

SUPPLANT THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE OPEN THE WHOLE CHARTER.

I WOULD, THOUGH, ASK THAT LEGAL STAFF SEND THE TRANSCRIPTS

AND/OR LINKS TO THE AUDIO OR VIDEO RECORDINGS OF THOSE

MEETINGS, AND IF YOU HAVE THEM TIME STAMPED IT WOULD MAKE IT

EASIER, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK AND SEND TO THE ALL OF

US AND MAYBE EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE CHARTER REVIEW

COMMISSION.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO SEVERAL FOLKS WHO WERE ON THE CHARTER

REVIEW COMMISSION WHO ARE NOT IN THE CITY NOW, AND THEIR

RECOLLECTION IS THE SAME AS MINE, THAT THERE WERE THINGS

THAT MADE IT TO THE FINAL VERSION THAT WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT

WE APPROVED.

IT COULD BE THAT SOMEBODY CHANGED THE SUMMARY AND PRESENTED

IT TO US AND WE APPROVED IT INADVERTENTLY AND I JUST WANT TO

KNOW THAT.

BUT WE WERE APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND WE WERE

ADVISING THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND WE ADVISED THEM ON

WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE APPROVING, AND IF SOMETHING CHANGED

BETWEEN THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION AND A SUMMARY OR

SOMETHING THAT CHANGED BEFORE THAT CITY COUNCIL AND CITY

COUNCIL INADVERTENTLY VOTED ON SOMETHING DIFFERENT, I WOULD

LIKE TO KNOW THAT.

IT WOULDN'T BE REVIEW THE WHOLE CHARTER BUT THERE ARE A




COUPLE OF AREAS WHERE WE DON'T REMEMBER THAT WHAT MADE IT

TOP THE FINAL BALLOT OR WHAT IS INTERPRETED IS FINAL.

AND IT'S ONE OR TWO ISSUES AS I RECALL.

AND THEN WE HAVE GOT TWO ISSUES HERE.

AND MY POINT LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER THAT WE WOULD TAKE A

HOLISTIC VIEW OF IT.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT ONE CHARTER CHANGE WITHOUT

SEEING WHAT THE IMPACT OF ANOTHER MIGHT BE, AND IF WE END UP

WITH FIVE OR SIX, MAYBE IT'S TWO, BUT IF WE END UP WITH FIVE

OR SIX PROPOSALS, LET'S PUT THEM ALL ON ONE DATE AND ARGUE

THEM ALL OUT AND SEE WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ON ALL OF THEM

AND THEN SEE IF WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ANYTHING.

THAT WOULD BE THE PROPOSAL FOR MOVING THEM TO MAYBE FEBRUARY

24th.

09:37:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

09:37:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

MR. SHELBY, IN REGARD TO THE CHARTER, THE CHARTER RIGHT NOW

SPECIFICALLY GIVES COUNCIL THE AUTHORITY AND ABILITY TO PUT

THINGS ON THE BALLOT.

IS THAT CORRECT?

09:37:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT COMES FROM STATE STATUTE, MR.

DINGFELDER.

09:37:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
IT'S UNDER STATE STATUTE?

09:37:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES.

09:37:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY.




SO EVEN THOUGH THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF THE CHARTER

PANEL THAT SEVERAL OF YOU WERE ON, THIS IS A COMPLETELY

LEGITIMATE PROCESS THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED.

09:37:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THAT A QUESTION OR STATEMENT?

09:37:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THAT'S A QUESTION.

09:37:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THEN THE ANSWER TO THAT IS UP UNTIL THE

VOTERS APPROVE A RECURRING CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, THAT

WAS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT WAS TO HAVE IT PUT ON BY CITY

COUNCIL.

09:38:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY.

09:38:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND THEN SENT TO THE MAYOR FOR APPROVAL OR

NOT.

09:38:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE WEREN'T

STEPPING OUT OF LINE AND CREATING SOMETHING THAT WAS

UNUSUAL.

09:38:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND IF I --

09:38:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD WASTE TOO MUCH

TIME IN 2021 DOING THIS.

I LIKE BILL'S IDEA OF TAKING WHATEVER CHARTER ISSUES MIGHT

COME UP OVER THE NEXT EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS AND ROLL THEM

INTO FEBRUARY WORKSHOP, IF ANYTHING COMES OUT OF IT, FINE

F.NOTHING COMES OUT OF IT, FINE.

BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE A WORKSHOP ABOUT IT A YEAR FROM NOW.

09:38:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA.

09:38:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.




I'M ALERTED TO THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN MRS. GRIMES AND MR.

CARLSON AND THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME THINGS THAT WERE

VOTED ON BUT NOT PARTICULARLY PUT IN AN AGENDA, THAT THE

COUNCIL VOTED ON.

SO WHAT I AM GOING TO ASK IF IT'S NOT TOO BURDENSOME, IF YOU

CAN SOMEHOW, SOMEBODY REVIEW ALL THE TAPES --

09:39:07 >>GINA GRIMES:
WE DID.

09:39:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
-- FROM THAT COMMITTEE, AND ALL THE VOTES

ARE TAKEN ON EVERY SINGLE VOTE THAT IS TAKEN, TO TAKE THAT

AND PUT IT, CONDENSE IT INTO A TAPE SO THAT ALL OF US CAN

SEE.

I THINK THEY CAN DO THAT.

I AM NOT AN ELECTRONIC EXPERT.

I JUST TURN THE COMPUTER OFF AN ON.

09:39:29 >>GINA GRIMES:
WE CAN DO THAT VERY EASILY THERE.

WERE MINUTES.

09:39:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I JUST WANT TO PUT CLARITY AND

TRANSPARENCY AND THE ACT OF GOD SAYING THAT THAT DIDN'T

HAPPEN.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS A PUBLIC RECORD SO THAT THE

PUBLIC WOULD BE AT EASE.

I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING IT UP.

09:39:43 >>GINA GRIMES:
I THINK YOU ALL HAVE THE EXTRA SAFEGUARD IF

IT MAKES YOU FEEL ANY BETTER, I DON'T THINK ANYTHING LIKE

THAT COULD HAVE OCCURRED BECAUSE MR. SHELBY WAS PART OF THE




PROCESS, HE ATTENDED EVERY CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION

MEETING, AND HE WAS AT THE SAME TIME THE COUNCIL ATTORNEY SO

HE WOULD HAVE REVIEWED WHATEVER WAS DRAFTED AND PRESENTED TO

THE COUNCIL, AND I GUARANTEE YOU HE WOULD HAVE MADE SURE

THAT IT ACCURATELY REFLECTED WHAT WAS VOTED UPON AT THE

CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.

09:40:13 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

THEN I AM GOING TO MAKE A COMMENT.

09:40:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I THANK MRS. GRIMES FOR HER COMMENT AND

THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

BECAUSE I THINK FRANKLY, COUNCIL, I AGREE WITH WHAT MS.

GRIMES HAS SAID WITH REGARD TO WHAT THE CHARTER REVIEW

COMMISSION MAY HAVE INTENDED.

I BELIEVE OUR DISCUSSION, MS. GRIMES AND I, FOCUSED ON

INTERPRETATION OF LANGUAGE, AND SOMETIMES WE HAD A

DISCUSSION FOR A COMMA IN A SENTENCE, AND THERE'S A

DIFFERING INTERPRETATION THAT SOMEHOW AFFECTS THE POWER OF

THE CITY COUNCIL, I THINK IT AT LEAST HAS TO COME TO LIGHT

AND BE RESOLVED.

SO WITH REGARD TO WHAT THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION'S

INTENTION WAS, WHAT THEY SAID, I THINK THAT'S A WORTHY

THING.

IT'S A MAJOR UNDERTAKING TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THAT.

BUT I WAS THERE, AS WERE THREE OF YOU WHO ARE NOW SITTING ON

THE DAIS TODAY, AND I THINK THAT THE DISCUSSION REALLY IS




WHAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ULTIMATELY PUT IT ON

THE CHARTER, WHICH IS THE VOTERS, WHAT WAS THEIR

UNDERSTANDING?

WE REALLY DON'T NONEXCEPT UP TO THE BUDGET SUMMARY AND THE

VOTE, AND THE QUESTION IS, IF THERE WAS AN INTERPRETATION

THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THIS CITY COUNCIL MAY HAVE

THOUGHT, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WAS THE INTERPRETATION THAT

WAS PRESENTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL AT THE TIME, THAT

ULTIMATELY PUT THOSE QUESTIONS ON THE BALLOT BEFORE THE

VOTERS?

WAS IT THEIR INTENTION TO ABRIDGE OR CONSTRICT THE POWER OF

THE CITY COUNCIL?

AND I THINK THAT'S THE KIND OF DISCUSSION I AM GRATEFUL TO

MS. GRIMES THAT SHE'S WILLING TO SPEND THE TIME WITH ME OVER

MULTIPLE MEETINGS, SHE'S OFFERED, OVER SEVERAL DAYS, HOURS,

WHO KNOWS?

BUT I AM WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO WORK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES

OF INTERPRETATION.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WAS MISLED.

I THINK THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT JUST NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED

BEFORE WE CAN UNDERSTAND AS A CITY HOW WE ARE TO MOVE

FORWARD, RATHER THAN HAVE BEEN THESE ISSUES COME UP WITH

COUNCIL ON A PERIODIC BASIS.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I AM ASKING FOR.

AND I EXPRESSED THAT TO MRS. GRIMES AND SHE'S GRACIOUSLY




OFFERED TO WORK WITH ME TO WORK WITH THAT AND I AM GRATEFUL

FOR THAT.

09:42:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
ALONG WITH WHAT MR. SHELBY JUST SAID,

NOT ONLY WITH THREE OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT

TODAY ON THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE, THE OTHER THREE ON

CITY COUNCIL.

SO WE HAVE SIX.

MR. GUDES, YOU WERE THE DIRECTOR AND YOU WERE UNDERSTANDING

THAT OUT OF THE SEVEN OF US, SIX HAD A DIRECT OR INDIRECT

UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THE THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO WERE ELECTED, THREE COUNCIL

MEMBERS WHO WERE ELECTED PRIOR TO THEM BEING ON THE COUNCIL,

ALSO LISTENED TO THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WERE MADE ON A

UNIFORM.

SO THAT'S WHY I ASK THAT QUESTION TO FINISH IT OFF TO MAKE

SURE THAT NO ONE IN ANY WAY THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WAS DOING

OR NOT DOING THEIR DUTIES THAT WERE GIVEN BY THE COUNCIL AT

THAT TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

09:43:14 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO CHIME IN?

MY RECOLLECTION.

MY RECOLLECTION.

THERE WERE THOSE WEEKS THAT WE MADE SURE WE THOUGHT THE

PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, MADE SURE THAT WE HAD VIDEO, AUDIO,

A LOT OF PUSHBACK.




ASKING, ASKING, ASKING, STILL DIDN'T GET, WHICH I DIDN'T

UNDERSTAND.

THE WAY I VIEW IT, THE WAY I SEE IT, IT'S ALL ABOUT

INTERPRETATION.

CLEARLY.

BECAUSE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE VOTED ON, THE

INTERPRETATION, OR THE WAY I INTERPRETED IT, IS A DIFFERENT

WAY THAN MAYBE OTHERS ARE INTERPRETING IT.

AND I THINK THAT HAPPENED WITH THE ACTUAL SITTING COUNCIL AT

THAT TIME.

THEY WERE PRESENTED SOMETHING, BUT THE INTERPRETATION THEY

READ, OR SOMETIMES YOU -- HERE IT IS, WE GO WITH IT.

SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT MR. SHELBY AND MS. GRIMES, AGAIN, I

THINK A WORKSHOP IS NEEDED TO GO OVER THOSE CERTAIN WORDS,

COMMAS, AND MAKING SURE THAT THE POWER OF THIS HOUSE AND THE

POWER OF THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR IS CLEAR.

AND I THINK SOMETIMES IT'S NOT CLEAR.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE COME INTO THESE FIGHTS.

HATE TO USE THAT WORD, BUT THESE DECISION MAKING OF WHO HAS

WHAT AUTHORITY.

CHARTER NEEDS TO BE CLEAR OF WHO HAS WHAT AUTHORITY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR OF THE AUTHORITY, BECAUSE SOME

OF IT OVERLAPS EACH OTHER.

IF WE CAN GET THESE SITUATIONS, BUT MR. CARLSON, I RESPECT

WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, I RESPECT MR. DINGFELDER, BUT I DO




THINK THAT SIX MONTHS TO AN ELECTION IS JUST TOO CLOSE, YOU

GET INTO A LOT OF POLITICAL STUFF.

I WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO BE AT THE FOCUS OF THIS BODY OR FOR

THE CITY.

SO I WOULD ASK IF THERE IS A MOTION TO ENTERTAIN TODAY THAT

WE LOOK AT A WORKSHOP WAY PRIOR TO ANY TYPE OF CHARTER ISSUE

AS IT RELATES TO CRB ISSUES, AS IT RELATES TO ANY OTHER

THINGS IN THE CHARTER, THAT THEY ARE CLEARED UP, THEY ARE

CLEAR, AND THEY GO TO THE VOTERS, CLEAR ON WHAT THEY ARE

VOTING ON, THIS BODY IS ALSO CLEAR AS TO WHO HAS WHAT

AUTHORITY AND WHO HASN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

MR. SHELBY, ANY FURTHER COMMENTS BEFORE I CLOSE THIS OR

ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THIS?

09:45:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO, MR. CHAIRMAN.

JUST ONE OTHER THING THAT I WAS TASKED BY THE CITY COUNCIL

TO PARTICIPATE AS LEGAL ADVISER TO THE CHARTER REVIEW

COMMISSION, AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, AND CERTAINLY IT WAS CITY

ATTORNEY SAL TERRITO WHO WAS THERE, AND ACTUALLY DRAFTED AND

DID A LOT OF TREMENDOUS WORK IN SUPPORT OF THAT COMMISSION.

I DO WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO

ADVOCATE FOR CITY COUNCIL.

I BROUGHT THINGS PERHAPS I FELT NECESSARY TO APPRISE THEM OF

INFORMATION BUT IN NO WAY DID I INTEND OR WAS PERMITTED BY

CITY COUNCIL OR GIVEN THAT AUTHORITY TO ADVOCATE FOR ANY

SPECIFIC POSITION.




I WAS TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY TO ACT AS A NEUTRAL.

THANK YOU.

09:46:48 >>LUIS VIERA:
AND YOU DID A FABULOUS JOB, SIR.

MR. CARLSON, I SEE YOUR HAND.

IT'S HERE NOW.

I WOULD RATHER GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY.

IT'S A HOT TOPIC.

AND WE MOVE ON.

09:46:58 >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD PROPOSE MAKING TWO MOTIONS OR I CAN

MAKE THE SAME.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE SCHEDULE FEBRUARY

24th WORKSHOP TO DISCUSS ANY PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT

CHANGES FOR THE FOLLOWING ELECTION, AND I CAN MAKE THIS AS A

SEPARATE MOTION OR SAME MOTION, AND THAT ITEM NUMBER 52 BE

MOVED AS PART THAT TO FEBRUARY 24th.

09:47:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION ON THE FLOOR BY CARLSON, SECOND BY

DINGFELDER.

MR. VIERA, DISCUSSION.

09:47:30 >>LUIS VIERA:
MOVING -- I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS AT THE VERY

LEAST TODAY ANY CHARTER AMENDMENTS DEALING WITH THE CRB.

AGAIN I HAVE FALLEN IN DIFFERENT SIDES ON THE ONES THAT ARE

DISCUSSED.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A ROBUST DISCUSSION SEVEN, EIGHT

MONTHS FROM NOW ON THIS ISSUE BUT AT LEAST ADDRESSING THESE

ISSUES TODAY I THINK WOULD BE WISE.




MY THOUGHTS.

09:47:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
CAN I HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT, MR. VIERA?

09:48:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.

09:48:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
LUIS, I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND WE

WOULD PROBABLY SPEND AN HOUR ON THAT TODAY AND MAYBE THE

VOTE WOULD COME OUT AND SAY WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT IN

FEBRUARY.

BUT IN FEBRUARY SOMEBODY COULD MAKE A MOTION AND SAY LET'S

ADD IT TO THE LIST OF THINGS OF CHARTER ISSUES, AND IT COULD

BE VIABLE AGAIN.

SO IT'S LIKE WHY WASTE OUR TIME TODAY?

THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION.

WHY WASTE OUR TIME TODAY?

BECAUSE EVEN IF WE THINK WE GOT -- ONE WAY OR THE OTHER --

09:48:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA?

09:48:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
FOR THE LAST TIME.

I AM NOT AGAINST ANYTHING THAT'S POSSIBLE.

HOWEVER, I AM LOOKING AT A MUCH BIGGER PICTURE THAN JUST THE

SEVEN OF US, AND THE DEPARTMENT HEADS THAT ARE HERE IN THE

AUDIENCE TODAY.

I AM LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT IS VIABLE TO ALL OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT, NOT ONLY THE CITY OF TAMPA BUT THE SHERIFF'S

DEPARTMENT, ANY FEDERAL AGENCY, ANY STATE AGENCY, ANY COUNTY

AGENCY THAT HAS TO DO WITH ANYTHING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT,

LOOKING AT US TODAY AND SAYING WHAT IS IT THAT THEY WANT?




AND IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT.

I WANT THEM, WHOEVER IS APPLYING FOR THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT

JOBS, GOD BLESS THEM ALL BECAUSE WE NEED THEM, THAT IT'S

INCUMBENT TO SAY YAY OR NAY TODAY ON WHETHER WE ARE GOING TO

ALLOW THE ORIGINAL -- [OFF MICROPHONE] -- AND ONE WAY OR THE

OTHER, AND I AM NOT GOING TO QUESTION ANYONE'S VOTE, I NEVER

HAVE.

SO DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE COUNSEL THE ROAD, OR DO WE WANT TO

PUT SOMETHING AT LEAST ON THIS SEGMENT TODAY, AND MAYBE

SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BRING IT UP, WE

MAY NOT BE HERE.

WHO KNOWS?

YOU KNOW, IT'S A LONG PROCESS.

IT WAS A VERY TEDIOUS PROCESS, WHEN ALL THOSE THAT

VOLUNTEERED TO BE IN THAT WONDERFUL BOARD, AND THEY DID A

YEOMAN'S JOB, THEY CONTINUED FOR MONTHS UNTIL THEY CAME BACK

WITH THE ITEMS THAT WERE ALL ACCEPTED.

SO THESE ARE THE THINGS, SO I AM READY TO VOTE ON THIS

TODAY.

09:50:04 >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIR, JUST CLARIFICATION.

FOR THE PUBLIC, AND PARTICULARLY, ITEM NUMBER 52 IS ABOUT

PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT REMITTING TO OUTSIDE COUNCIL FOR

THE CRB BUT THERE'S A WALK-ON AGENDA ITEM WHICH IS AN

ORDINANCE WHICH IS A SEPARATE ISSUE.

SHOULD WE CALL THAT ITEM NUMBER 56 OR HOW DO WE HANDLE THIS?




09:50:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THOSE ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.

09:50:32 >>BILL CARLSON:
SO WE HAVE CLARITY THAT IT'S TWO DIFFERENT

ISSUES THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.

09:50:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CONFUSION WHEN

YOU COMBINE THE TWO SUBJECT MATTERS BECAUSE ONE IS A

SEPARATE ORDINANCE FOR SOMETHING DOWN THE ROAD, POTENTIAL

CHARTER AMENDMENT BALLOT QUESTION.

AND I JUST WANT COUNCIL TO BE CLEAR, CERTAINLY FOR THE

PUBLIC, THAT MY REQUEST FOR A CONTINUANCE HAD NOTHING TO DO

WITH THE CRB ISSUE WHATSOEVER.

SO IT IS SOMEWHAT CONFUSING PERHAPS.

09:51:02 >>BILL CARLSON:
THIS WALK-ON ITEM, SHOULD WE CALL IT ITEM

NUMBER 56 SO --

09:51:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MAY WE ASK THE CLERK IF THAT'S

PERMISSIBLE?

09:51:12 >> AT THIS TIME IT'S ON THE ADDENDUM, SO WE DON'T WANT TO A

SIGN IT AS NUMBER 56.

IT MAY NOT END UP BEING NUMBER 56.

09:51:21 >>BILL CARLSON:
I CAN SPLIT MAIN IN TWO DIFFERENT MOTIONS.

THE FIRST MOTION WOULD BE THAT WE SCHEDULE ANY PROPOSED

CHARTER AMENDMENTS ON FEBRUARY 24th ON THE FEBRUARY

24th WORKSHOP.

09:51:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT, PLEASE?

09:51:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I WAS THE SECONDER, SO ANY CHARTER

REVIEW ISSUES WE ARE GOING TO DEFER UNTIL FEBRUARY 24th




OF 2022, IS THAT THE INTENT?

09:51:51 >>BILL CARLSON:
WE COULD HAVE DISCUSSIONS BEFORE BUT WE

BUTT R THE BIG DISCUSSION ON FEBRUARY 24th, 2022.

09:51:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND PROBABLY TAKE THE WHOLE WORKSHOP.

09:52:00 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

09:52:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I WILL MOD ANY MY SECOND TO CON FORM TO

THAT.

09:52:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION ON THE FLOOR BY MR. CARLSON.

SECOND BY MR. DINGFELDER.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ROLL CALL VOTE, PLEASE.

09:52:11 >>LUIS VIERA:
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS DOES NOT CONTINUE

CHARTER RELATED ISSUES --

09:52:22 >>BILL CARLSON:
I TOOK OUT 52.

09:52:24 >>LUIS VIERA:
[OFF MICROPHONE]

09:52:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

09:52:31 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

09:52:33 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

09:52:34 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WITH THE CHANGE OF LANGUAGE, THIS NEW

MOTION, YES.

09:52:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NO.

09:52:42 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

09:52:43 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH MIRANDA VOTING NO.

09:52:47 >>BILL CARLSON:
I WILL JUST LEAVE ITEM NUMBER 572.

YOU ALL CAN DECIDE WHETHER YOU WANT TO MOVE IT OR NOT.




09:52:51 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 52 WILL BE THE ACTUAL --

09:53:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AS IT STANDS NOW AND THE ADDENDUM WE CAN

TAKE IT UP THEN.

09:53:05 >>BILL CARLSON:
IT'S NOT AN ORDINANCE.

09:53:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO ORDINANCE HAS BEEN PREPARED AND THERE'S

A REQUEST FOR A CONTINUANCE FROM ME, JUST ON THAT.

BUT THAT WAS -- I DON'T TAKE A POSITION, COUNCIL, WITH

REGARD TO WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT TODAY, WHETHER

YOU WANT TO ADDRESS IT AT ALL, BUT I AM JUST LETTING YOU

KNOW THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TALK TO MS. GRIMES, AND INFORM

HER THAT IT WAS MY INTENT TO ASK FOR A COULDN'T ANSWER ON

THAT ITEM.

RATHER THAN HAVE IT PREPARED FOR TODAY.

09:53:36 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I AM CONFUSED BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK AT THE

WALK-ON SHEET, ADDITIONAL REVISIONS TO PROPOSED ORDINANCE.

52.

AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SEPARATE ITEM IN ITSELF.

MRS. GRIMES.

09:53:51 >>GINA GRIMES:
CITY ATTORNEY.

WHAT MR. SHELBY JUST MENTIONED, WHEN HE SAID THE ORDINANCE

WAS NOT PREPARED, HE MEANT THE ORDINANCE FOR THE CHARTER

ENDMENT.

09:54:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT'S CORRECT.

THANK YOU.

09:54:02 >>GINA GRIMES:
THE OTHER ORDINANCE THAT INCLUDES ALL THE




OTHER CHANGES TO THE CRB CODE, THE ORDINANCE HAS BEEN

PREPARED FOR THAT ITEM AS WELL AS THE CHANGES TO THE CRB

CODE.

AND WE ARE ALL PREPARED TO ADDRESS THAT MATTER.

SO WHAT ITEM 52 IS, IS JUST REQUESTING A CONTINUANCE TO

PREPARE THE CHARTER AMENDMENT RELATED TO THE CRB AND

INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

THAT WAS A SEPARATE MOTION BY COUNCIL.

AND WE'LL ADDRESS THE OTHER MOTIONS WHEN WE GET TO THE

LARGER SUBJECT.

09:54:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
OKAY.

MR. DINGFELDER?

09:54:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
[OFF MICROPHONE] IN REGARD TO THAT SINCE

MR. SHELBY HAS ASKED FOR 60 TO 90 DAYS ON THAT ISSUE AND

SINCE THERE IS NO -- THERE IS NO PREPARATION OF THAT

INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ORDINANCE IN FRONT OF US, I DON'T KNOW

WHAT THERE IS TO DISCUSS TODAY.

SO WHY DON'T WE, YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T WE GRANT MR. SHELBY'S

REQUEST TO BRING THAT BACK IN 90 DAYS?

OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, DEFER IT UNTIL FEBRUARY 24th AND

CONSOLIDATE IT WITH MR. CARLSON'S CHARTER DAY?

IT'S NOW YOUR CHARTER DAY, MR. CARLSON.

09:55:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES:


SO I AM GOING TO MAKE A MOTION JUST TO TIGHTEN THIS UP.

09:55:31 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.




09:55:34 >>LUIS VIERA:
AFTER COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.

09:55:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'LL MAKE A MOTION IN CONSIDERATION OF

MR. SHELBY'S REQUEST FOR 60 TO 90 DAYS, INSTEAD WILL GRANT

HIS REQUEST AND DEFER ITEM 52 AS IS STATED ON THE AGENDA TO

DEFER IT UNTIL FEBRUARY 24th, 2022 WORKSHOP.

09:55:50 >> SECOND.

09:55:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY DINGFELDER, SECOND BY CARLSON.

YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

09:55:57 >>LUIS VIERA:
I APPRECIATE THAT SIR.

I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT SOMETHING, WHICH IS WE CAN DISCUSS

CHARTER AMENDMENT AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S MOTION, AND I SUPPORT IT TO HAVE A DAY

IN WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT PROSPECTIVE CHARTER AMENDMENT.

WE CAN DO THAT AT ANY TIME AND HAVE A DATE SET A SIDE FOR

THAT, I'M FINE WITH THAT, BUT WHY PRECLUDE THE DISCUSSION

FOR CHARTER AMENDMENTS THAT DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE ISSUES

THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH TODAY?

AGAIN I HAVE FALLEN ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE ISSUES THAT WE

WILL BE TALKING ABOUT.

I SEE NO NEED TO PRECLUDE THAT.

AND IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT MOVES FORWARD WE CAN DEAL WITH IT

IN FEBRUARY.

I JUST THINK WE ARE CREATING ARBITRARY FICTIONS TODAY.

MY FINANCE.

THANK YOU, SIR.




09:56:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF I MAY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.

I BELIEVE MAYBE IT'S BEST TO HOLD THIS ITEM TILL YOU TALK

ABOUT THE ISSUE ENTIRELY AND THEN IF AT LEAST WITH REGARD TO

THIS YOU ARE DOING IT HOLISTICALLY.

THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION.

09:56:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SO I WILL DEFER THAT MOTION AND PULL IT

FOR NOW.

IS THAT COUNCIL'S WILL?

09:57:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I BELIEVE VOTE ON IT AND LET THE PUBLIC

KNOW.

09:57:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M SORRY, MR. MIRANDA.

I AM GOING TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION FOR NOW AND I SEE A COUPLE

OF NODS DEFER IT TILL LATER.

WE'LL DEFER IT TILL LATER IN THE DAY.

09:57:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
OKAY.

09:57:21 >> AND I THINK, MR. CARLSON, YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO AGREE.

09:57:35 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

09:57:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM LAUGHING AT MYSELF.

MAYBE I HEAR IT WRONG.

WE HAVE SO MUCH PLASTIC HERE I FEEL LIKE LIQUID IN A

BEVERAGE DRINK.

IT IS WHAT IT IS.

AND THERE'S SEVEN OF US HERE NOW.

MAYBE AT LUNCH ONE OF US DON'T COME BACK FOR WHATEVER REASON

AND WE ARE ONE SHORT OR WHATEVER.




LISTEN, I AM NOT OPPOSED TO VOTING BY MYSELF IF I BELIEVE IN

SOMETHING WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT.

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE BURDENSOME.

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE CONTRARY TO ANYTHING.

BUT THESE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES.

IT MEANS LITTLE THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN BUT IT MEANS THAT

ANYONE WHO IS LOOKING TO COME INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS TO

UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THEY HAVE TO APPLY AND BE

VETTED FROM THE DAY THEY ARE BORN UNTIL THE DAY THEY APPLY

AND THESE ARE THE DIFFICULT TIMES THAT I AM LOOKING AT, THAT

WE NEED QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE BEST, THE

BRIGHTEST AND THE SHARPEST SO THAT EVERYTHING THAT'S IN LAW

ENFORCEMENT IS SETTLED AND EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THEIR ROLE,

AND NOBODY GOES BEYOND THEIR ROLE.

THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I AM TROUBLE TROUBLED WITH

PERSONALLY.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS PART OF THIS BUT IT CERTAINLY IS

WHEN YOU ARE APPLYING FOR A JOB YOU SHOULD AT LEAST KNOW

WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO, WHAT KIND OF LAWS, WHAT YOU EXPECT OF

ME AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

AND THAT'S ALL.

09:58:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE JUST VOTED ON ANY CHARTER ISSUES TO GO

TO FEBRUARY 2022.

SO NOW BEFORE US WE HAVE STILL THIS DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT




TALKS ABOUT RETAINING OF THE ATTORNEY.

09:59:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT IS ON YOUR AGENDA.

AND THE ORDINANCE, THAT SPECIFIC ORDINANCE FOR THE CHARTER

ENDMENT PER MY DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, I TOLD

HER I WOULD BE DOING THIS REQUEST FOR A CONTINUANCE TO MAKE

IT DONE HOLISTICALLY BECAUSE I THINK IT'S BEST PRACTICE, BUT

I'M REQUESTING A CONTINUANCE, BUT IF COUNCIL CHOOSES TO

RESOLVE THE ISSUE TODAY AND TAKE IT OFF THE TABLE AFTER

HEARING THE DISCUSSION, OR ADVANCING IT, AND THEN CHOOSING A

DAY, COUNTY DO SO.

BUT I AM JUST SAYING TO YOU WITH REGARD TO THE ITEM ITSELF,

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE A SUBJECT OF DISCUSSION.

SO MY SUGGESTION IS IF IT CAN BE RESOLVED TODAY WITH A

DIFFERENT DATE, OR NO DATE, THEN THAT CAN HAPPEN.

09:59:51 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
BASICALLY IF WE RESOLVE IT TODAY AND

SOMEBODY WANTS TO BRING IT UP IN THE FEBRUARY 24, 2022

MEETING, IT COMES BACK ON THE TABLE.

IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING, SIR?

10:00:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CONSENSUS.

10:00:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
ANY MOTION IN FEBRUARY, YOU KNOW, COULD

STAND.

WHAT IF SEVEN PEOPLE WANTED TO BRING IT UP IN FEBRUARY?

10:00:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK TO GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY,

BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WILL PROBABLY COME BACK ANYWAY, I

BELIEVE WE VOTE THIS UP OR DOWN NOW, TO MOVE ON, TO MOVE ON,




AND THEN EVERYTHING THAT DEALS WITH THE CHARTER COMES BACK

IN FEBRUARY, AND IF THIS ITEM GOES ON THE BALLOT, WE AGREE

IT GOES ON THE BALLOT.

10:00:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YOU ARE SAYING STRIKE IT FOR TODAY AND

DEAL WITH IT IN FEBRUARY?

10:00:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AGAIN, THIS IS -- COULD YOU TAKE THAT UP

BUT ULTIMATELY, I BELIEVE MADAM CLERK, IF I COULD JUST

INQUIRE OF THE CLERK, HAS THERE BEEN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE

AGENDA AND ADDENDUM?

10:00:54 >> NO, NOT YET.

10:00:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY MANISCALCO, SECOND BY VIERA.

10:01:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
TO APPROVE THE AGENDA OTHER WAYS?

10:01:03 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

10:01:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND THEN TAKE A SEPARATE VOTE.

10:01:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WHY DON'T WE DO THAT BEFORE WE DEALT

WITH 52 --

IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT.

10:01:17 >> WHAT'S THE PROPER PROCEDURE?

CAN WE MOVE THIS ITEM NOW, STRIKE IT UP OH ARE DOWN AND THEN

GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS?

10:01:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, YOU CAN.

BUT I AM ALSO WANTING TO REMIND THAT YOU THIS RIGHT NOW IS

SET FOR STAFF REPORTS AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT STAFF

REPORTS UNLESS COUNCIL ADVANCES THEIR MEETING BEFORE LUNCH

TO BE ABLE TO TAKE IT UP, IT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN UP LATER ON




TODAY.

YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM STAFF ABOUT IT.

YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE ADMINISTRATION ABOUT IT.

IF YOU WANT TO DO IT TODAY AT THIS POINT IN TIME AND TAKE IT

OFF THE AGENDA, THAT'S PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE.

10:01:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC ON IT.

10:01:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC.

THAT'S TRUE.

OR STAFF, AS MS. GRIMES JUST SAID.

THAT'S TRUE.

SO MY -- GO AHEAD.

I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIRMAN.

10:02:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA.

10:02:07 >>LUIS VIERA:
THIS HAS NO BEARING ON THE MERITS OF THE

ISSUE.

WHY DON'T WE TAKE IT UP AND PROCEED WITH THE MEETING?

10:02:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND I WAS OKAY WITH THAT.

10:02:15 >>LUIS VIERA:
IN MY OPINION.

10:02:18 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL MOVE ON.

10:02:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MOVE TO CONTINUE THAT TO JULY 29th.

10:02:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M SORRY?

10:02:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
JULY 29th, NUMBER 53.

10:02:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL IN FAVOR?

ALL OPPOSED?




ITEM NUMBER 54.

10:02:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I WOULD LIKE TO STRIKE 54 PURSUANT TO

LOCAL REQUEST.

BUT IT WAS MR. CITRO'S MOTION.

I DON'T WANT TO STEP ON YOUR PARADE.

10:02:56 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THAT'S QUITE ALL RIGHT.

10:02:58 >>ANDREA ZELMAN:
WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING YOU TO RECEIVE AND

FILE THE REPORT.

10:03:02 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IF I MAY JUST TAKE TWO SECOND.

MR. CHAIR, PLEASE.

THANK YOU.

I WANT TO THANK THE LEGAL STAFF FOR DOING THIS.

I VISITED THE LOVELY PEOPLE AT THE BEACH PARK NEIGHBORHOOD

ASSOCIATION, AND EVEN BEFORE ANYTHING, TRANSPORTATION,

BUILDING, ANYTHING, A COUPLE OF THE WONDERFUL RESIDENTS

BROUGHT THIS UP.

I DON'T LIKE TO BEAT DEAD HORSES.

I LIKE TO BURY THEM.

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL PUT AN END TO WARD STREET.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. ZELMAN.

THANK YOU FOR THE LEGAL STAFF.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.

10:03:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE?

CITRO, SECOND BY MIRANDA.




ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

10:03:47 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

10:03:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM 55.

10:03:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
ITEM 55, CHIEF BENNETT, THAT'S A STAFF

REPORT LATER ON, IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

HE INDICATES THAT IS THE CASE.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

10:04:02 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
OKAY.

ITEM NUMBER 1.

WAS REMOVED FROM CITY ATTORNEY.

WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.

MOTION BY MANISCALCO, SECOND BY CARLSON.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE NO CEREMONIALS TODAY.

WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENTS.

HOW MANY DO WE HAVE DOWNSTAIRS, MS. SULING?

10:04:38 >> SIX.

10:04:39 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SIX.

10:04:42 >> MY NAME IS DAVID SIMINOF, A HOMEOWNER, A TAXPAYER, TO

TALK ABOUT THE CRB.

I KNOW A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO BE RESCHEDULED AND

TALKED ABOUT LATER SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE OF




GENERAL COMMENTS.

FIRST OF ALL, I WANT YOU TO KNOW THE GREATER TAMPA CHAPTER.

ACLU HAS NEARLY 5,000 PAID MEMBERS AND THE STATE

ORGANIZATION HAS OVER 180,000 PAID MEMBERS.

THESE NUMBERS SHOW YOU THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE

DETERMINED ALL PEOPLE ARE TREATED FAIRLY UNDER THE LAW, CAN

BE HEARD AND ENJOY EQUALITY.

THESE ARE PEOPLE, THESE VOLUNTEERS AND PAID MEMBERS, ARE

COMMITTED, HAVE COMMITTED THEIR TIME, THEIR ATTENTION AND

THEIR POLITICAL WILL TO PROMOTE THESE IDEALS.

THESE PEOPLE ARE INFORMED, THEY ARE POLITICALLY ACTIVE AND

THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY AND IN

THE FUTURE AND UNTIL THE TIME WHEN THIS IS SETTLED.

NOW, THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT CREATING A FULLY REALIZED CRB HAS

GONE ON FOR A LONG TIME BUT REALLY THE GOAL HAS NOT CHANGED.

THE CITIZEN REVIEW -- CRB NEEDS TO HAVE THE AUTHORITY, THE

POWER AND THE TOOLS TO BE TRULY ACCOUNTABLE TO THE

COMMUNITY.

AND THE FULL COMMUNITY.

NOTHING ABOUT GETTING THE FULLY REALIZED CRB WILL CHANGE OR

IMPAIR THE ABILITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO ITS JOB.

NOW, WE CAN STATED THIS WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY BECAUSE

THERE IS NOTHING NEW OR REVOLUTIONARY ABOUT THIS.

THINGS LIKE ADDING INDEPENDENT LAWYER, GIVING SUBPOENA POWER

HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND




NOWHERE HAS IT HAD A NEGATIVE EFFECT.

SO IN CONCLUSION WE ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, EVEN IF

IT'S NOT QUITE CLEAR TODAY WHEN IT'S GOING TO BE DONE OR THE

FORM IT'S GOING TO TAKE, BUT I IMPLORE YOU TO TAKE THE NEXT

STEP, KEEP THIS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, AND DO NOT

STOP UNTIL WE HAVE A FULLY REALIZED CRB.

THANK YOU.

10:07:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

STATE YOUR NAME SIR.

10:07:31 >> MARK WOLFSON.

GOOD MORNING, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

I'M A RESIDENT OF BEACH PARK, AND PERHAPS, I DON'T KNOW IF

MY BRIEF COMMENTS WILL BE MOOTED OUT BECAUSE OF SOMETHING I

HEARD PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF PUBLIC COMMENT, WITH

RESPECT TO ITEM NUMBER 54 WHICH WAS THE CLOSING OF WARD

STREET, BUT I WANT THE COUNCIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT MYSELF, AS

WELL AS OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COALITION REPRESENTING PEOPLE

WHO LIVE IN BEACH PARK, ARE CONCERNED THAT WITH RESPECT TO A

REPORT, THAT WAS DELIVERED TO THE COUNCIL BY ITS COUNSEL --

10:08:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
EXCUSE ME.

10:08:19 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

MR. SHELBY, I BELIEVE THAT THIS GENTLEMAN HERE MAY BE MAKING

STATEMENTS IN WHICH WE IN THE FUTURE MIGHT HAVE SOME SORT OF

LITIGATION POSSIBLE.

SO IF YOU COULD PLEASE ADVICE THIS GENTLEMAN ON COMMENTS




THAT HE MAY BE MAKING AT THIS TIME.

10:08:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WELL, IF I CAN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCILMAN CITRO.

YOUR RULE, RULE 4-J FOR THE PUBLIC'S INFORMATION, IS THAT

COUNCIL SHOULD AVOID ANY DISCUSSION -- COUNCIL SHOULD AVOID

ANY DISCUSSION OF MATTERS AT A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE THE CITY

IS OR IS LIKELY TO BE A PARTY IN LITIGATION WITHOUT THE

CONCURRENCE OF COUNCIL, AND YOU WERE ADVISED IN THE MEMO

THAT YOU JUST RECEIVED AND FILED RELATIVE TO THE FACT THAT

THE OPINION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE RELATIVE TO

WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD DISCUSS THIS, AND WITH THAT IN

MIND, CERTAINLY THIS IS THE PUBLIC'S OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK,

IN WHAT FORM OR FASHION IT WILL OR COULD COME BACK TO CITY

COUNCIL AT THIS POINT IN TIME I CANNOT SAY, BUT I BELIEVE

THE PURPOSE OF THE MEMO -- I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR MRS.

ZELMAN -- BUT THE PURPOSE OF THE MEMO IS TO APPRAISE COUNCIL

OF THE NECESSITY IN ITS OPINION TO AVOID COMMENTING ON WHAT

YOU MIGHT HEAR THAT THE PUBLIC MIGHT WISH TO SPEAK AND

COMMUNICATE TO YOU AT GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT.

10:09:46 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. WARD, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH -- I WANT

TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS ON THE UP AND UP AND VERY LEGAL.

I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. WARD.

10:09:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN CITRO, FOR THE

QUESTION.




10:10:02 >> SO CAN I CONTINUE, PLEASE?

10:10:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY:


10:10:08 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES, SIR.

10:10:09 >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE REPORT GIVEN TO COUNCIL

DID NOT ADDRESS A POTENTIAL ISSUE THAT YOU MAY BE CONCERNED

ABOUT WITH RESPECT TO WHETHER OR NOT THE ROAD THAT WAS

ALLEGEDLY VACATED IN 2007 HAD IN FACT REVERTED TO THE CITY

UNDER STATE LAW, AND THE QUESTION SIMPLY WANT TO PROCESS

ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY ATTORNEY, CITY COUNCIL,

ET CETERA, EVALUATED THAT LEGAL PROPOSITION.

IF THEY DID AND THEY CAME TO A CONCLUSION, SO BE IT.

THE CONCERN IS FROM OUR GROUP IS THAT WHETHER OR NOT THE

CITY DID ITS DUTY TO EVALUATE THAT POTENTIAL ISSUE THAT AS A

MATTER OF LAW, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IT PREVIOUSLY WAS VACATED IN

2007, THIS PART OF WARD STREET, IT WASN'T UNTIL FEBRUARY

2021 WHEN BARRIERS WENT UP TO BLOCK YET ANOTHER ACCESS TO

RESIDENTS OF BEACH PARK TO KENNEDY AND PROVIDE BETTER MEANS

OF INGRESS AND EGRESS TO ITS RESIDENTS.

SO THE CONCERN IS TO RAISE THE ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT AN

USUAL YOU WAS CONSIDERED.

AND THAT'S WHY I AM HERE TODAY TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS

GROUP.

10:11:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

10:11:28 >> GOOD AFTERNOON.

JAMES -- I READ ATTORNEY GRIMES' MAY 16, 21 MEMO.




THERE'S NOTHING IN THE DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT I'M UNHAPPY

ABOUT.

THERE ARE THINGS MISSING FROM THE ORDINANCE THAT SHOULD BE

IN THERE.

IF I HAVE A CIVIL CASE, IF I AM SUING SOMEBODY FOR A DOLLAR,

THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT I WOULD GET.

I WOULD GET TO HAVE MY OWN ATTORNEY WHO ANSWERS JUST TO ME,

AND I WOULD ALSO GET TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS TO WITNESSES FOR

COPIES OF DOCUMENTS AND RECORDINGS AND TESTIMONY THAT SAYS

IT'S MY CASE AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY CASE IS SO IMPORTANT.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS SO THAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN KNOW THAT

THEY LIVE IN A SOCIETY WHERE THERE ARE MECHANISMS TO RESOLVE

DIFFICULTIES.

WHEN YOU CAN'T JUST GO AROUND COMMITTING TORTS AND THERE'S

NO REMEDIES FOR THAT.

THE EXISTENCE OF A SYSTEM THAT HAS MEANINGFUL REMEDIES MAKE

SOCIETY RUN SMOOTHLY SO IT'S NOT JUST FOR ME, IT'S FOR

SOCIETY.

ISN'T IT JUST AS IMPORTANT THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT THE

TREMENDOUS POWER THAT IS DELEGATED BY THE CITY TO THE POLICE

OFFICERS IS NOT BEING ABUSED?

THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT SURVEILLANCE, THE LIKES

OF WHICH J. EDGAR HOOVER ONLY DREAMED, THAT THINGS THAT

COULDN'T HAVE BEEN IMAGINED EVEN 20 YEARS ARE POSSIBLE

TODAY.




THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE CLUBS AND TASERS AND NONLETHAL

ROUNDS AND LETHAL ROUNDS ON PEOPLE, THAT IS TREMENDOUS POWER

THAT YOU DON'T JUST GIVE TO SOMEONE WITHOUT REGULATING IT.

I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE HEARD IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE

POLICE, BUT YOU WOULD NOT LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO SAYS WE

DON'T NEED THE SEC BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST DON'T LIKE STOCK

BROKERS AND WE DON'T NEED TO REGULATE THE MEDICAL

PROFESSION, ANYONE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD JUST DOESN'T LIKE

DOCTORS.

THOSE ARE A CHILD'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE NEED FOR

REGULATION.

YOU DON'T GIVE SOMEBODY TREMENDOUS POWER WITHOUT KEEPING AN

EYE ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT.

AND IT HAS TO BE MEANINGFUL.

SO IF THERE'S A CAR ACCIDENT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, AND I

CATCH IT ON MY DOORBELL CAMERA, I HAVE TO GIVE THAT TO THEM.

I CAN'T WITHHOLD IT BECAUSE I LIKE THE PERSON WHO CAUSED THE

ACCIDENT MORE THAN I LIKE THE PERSON WHO WAS INJURED.

BUT IF INSTEAD OF A CAR ACCIDENT, IT WAS A POLICE OFFICER

SHOOTING SOMEONE, AND THE PUBLIC WANTED TO LOOK AT THAT

VIDEO TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THAT SHOT WAS JUSTIFIED OR

NOT, IT SHOULDN'T DEPEND ON THE DUMB LUCK OF WHETHER THAT

HAPPENS IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE OR IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE OF A

MISGUIDED PERSON WHO BELIEVES THAT WITHHOLDING THAT FROM THE

CITY IS HELPING AND SUPPORTING THE POLICE.




SUBPOENA POWER IS NECESSARY, AND IT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE

AND IT NEEDS TO BE THERE, AND IF THE CITY COUNCIL WANT PUT

IT THERE, THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD AT LEAST LET THE VOTERS

HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT IT THERE.

SO AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU STARTED MIAMI-DADE COUNTY AND

DAYTONA BEACH STARTED REVISING THEIR ORDINANCES, THEY ARE

DONE NOW.

BROWARD COUNTY AND GAINESVILLE DIDN'T HAVE A CRB.

THEY CREATED ONE.

THEY STARTED AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU DID.

THEY ARE DONE NOW.

TAMPA IS STILL WORKING ON IT.

AND IT'S BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR A YEAR NOW AND IT'S ABOUT

MOVING TO --

[BELL SOUNDS]

PLEASE FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED.

THANK YOU.

10:15:12 >> MENTESNOT, TAMPA, FLORIDA.

YOU KNOW, I WANT TO SAY THE NASTY, HATEFUL, DECEITFUL AND

WICKED.

WHO AM I TALKING ABOUT?

I'M TALKING ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE.

LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN PALESTINE.

AND LOOK AT THE MAN YOU HAD COME UP AND GIVE VERIFICATION

YOU SAY DOZENS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED, DOZENS.




WE KNOW BETTER.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER WE SEE BOMBING RESIDENTS AND

THEIR BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY CLAIM SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED,

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, NOBODY BOMBED HITLER'S HOME,

UNDERSTAND?

NOBODY BOMBED HITLER'S RESIDENCE.

NOBODY BOMBED AND SUPPOSEDLY THAT'S THE PEOPLE WHO DO THEM

WRONG IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY, SHOUT OUT TO THE

PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

KEEP FIGHTING.

OKAY?

AND RIGHT HERE, WOKE UP, 4:00 THIS MORNING, REALLY DIDN'T

WAKE UP, LOOK AT THE PHONE NEWS AND YOU SEE THEY EXECUTED AN

AFRICAN MAN IN TEXAS.

THE NIGHT BEFORE THEY EXECUTED AN AFRICAN MAN IN SOUTH

CAROLINA, THEY RELEASED A VIDEO ON THAT.

AND THEY EXECUTE AFRICAN PEOPLE ALL OVER, EXECUTED AFRICAN

MAN WHO DIDN'T WANT TO GO FOR A BOND HEARING, A MENTALLY ILL

MAN WHO DIDN'T WANT TO GO FOR A BOND HEARING, THEY EXECUTED

HIM IN HIS PRISON CELL, AND EXECUTING MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN

ALL OVER THIS WORLD AND SPECIFICALLY AWFUL OVER THIS COUNTRY

AND THEY PUT IT FOR US AFRICAN PEOPLE TO SEE HOW YOU LYNCH

AFRICAN PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T PUT TO THE SAY WE HAVE GOT TO STOP THIS, AND IT'S

JUST WRONG AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT.




THEY PUT IT TO KEEP THEIR SCARE TACTIC ON US.

AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THAT IS, IS THAT WE AS AFRICAN

PEOPLE AND OUR SO-CALLED LEADERS HAVE BEEN BEGGING WHITE

FOLKS FOR THE WRONG THING, WE HAVE BEEN BEGGING THEM FOR

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, HOUSING, BEG THEM TO GO TO THE SAME

SCHOOL AND INTEGRATION AND ALL THAT.

BUT WE AS AFRICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO START STANDING UP FOR OUR

REPARATIONS, GO TO 621 TRILLION FOR 621 YEARS OF SUFFERING

AND OPPRESSION.

AND WE HAVE TO START ORGANIZING.

WE HAVE TO START BEGGING IF WE WANT TO BEG, OUR LEADERS HAVE

R, ORLANDO GUDES AND OTHERS HAVE TO KNOW WE HAVE TO START

BEGGING FOR NUCLEAR WEAPON.

WE AFRICAN PEOPLE NEED A BLACK PNEUMONIA LAR WEAPON IN OUR

HANDS.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET EXPECTED, THAT'S THE

ONLY WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET RECOGNIZED AND WITH A BLACK

NUCLEAR WEAPON, NOT ONE AFRICAN IN THE WORLD IN THE ENTIRE

WORLD WOULD BE HARASSED, WOULD BE INTIMIDATED FOR A BICYCLE

STOP, NOT ONE AFRICAN CHILD WOULD BE EXPELLED OR SUSPENDED

FROM ANY SCHOOL, ANYWHERE IN THIS WORLD, PERIOD.

NOT ONE AFRICAN FAMILY HAS BEEN ALREADY HASSLED BY THE

POLICE TELLING THEY SMELL SMOKE IN OUR AUTOMOBILE AND ALL

THE OTHER NONSENSE.

WE AFRICAN PEOPLE, IT'S TIME FOR US TO HAVE A BLACK NUCLEAR




WEAPON, A BLACK BOMB IN OUR HANDS, IN OUR HANDS AND OUR

CONTROL.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

WE DON'T NEED TO BEG FOR THIS OTHER NONSENSE THAT YOU ARE

BEGGING FOR.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IT'S SO INSULTING COMING HERE

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHY, AND TALK TO YOUR SECURITY.

STOP FOLLOWING ME LIKE I'M A CHILD OR I'M A CRIMINAL.

[BELL SOUNDS]

TALK TO YOUR SECURITY AND TELL THEM TO STOP FOLLOWING ME

LIKE I'M A CHILD OR I'M A CRIMINAL.

THANK YOU.

10:19:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

10:19:01 >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEN.

DARLA PORTMAN OF THE TAMPA PBA.

I'M ALSO A CITY OF TAMPA POLICE OFFICER AND I AM GOING ON MY

19th YEAR.

I'M HERE TODAY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT ITEM NUMBER 52 AND THE

CRB AND I KNOW YOU ALL ARE AWARE OF IT.

WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ALMOST A YEAR.

THE ACLU KEEPS MOVING THE GOAL POST, KEEPS WANTING TO ADD

EXTRA THINGS TO IT.

YOU JUST HAD TWO ATTORNEYS COME AND TELL YOU THERE NEEDS TO

BE TRANSPARENCY AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A BOARD THAT LOOKS

OVER POLICE OFFICERS.




WELL, WE HAVE GOT THE CRIMINAL STANDARDS AND TRAINING

COMMISSION.

WE HAVE FDLE.

SAO.

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

IA.

AND WE STILL HAVE THE CRB.

AND WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT HAVING THE VIDEOS AND THE MEDIA PUT

OUT WHEN AN OFFICER GETS IN THE SHOOTING AND THEY WANT TO

SEE IT RIGHT AWAY, I THINK CHIEF DUGAN HAS DONE THAT.

EVERY COUPLE OF HOURS AFTER THE SHOOTING HE SENT OUT A VIDEO

THAT SHOWS THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE.

WE COULDN'T BE MORE TRANSPARENT OR WE WOULD BE INVISIBLE.

THAT HE IS HOW TRANSPARENT WE ARE.

GINA, URSULA, CHIEF BENNETT AND ALSO THE MAYOR HAVE WORKED

REALLY, REALLY HARD IN THE ATTEMPT TO MAKE THIS PROPOSITION,

THIS PROPOSAL PERFECT.

AND IT HAS.

I DON'T AGREE WITH ALL OF IT BUT WE HAVE COME TO A

COMPROMISE.

THAT'S WHAT NEGOTIATION IS.

WE HAVE COMPROMISED, AND LET'S GIVE THIS A CHANCE TO WORK.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO KEEP ADDING MORE AND MORE TO IT. WHY

DON'T WE GIVE THIS ACTUAL PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE NOW A

CHANCE?




IF IT NEEDS TO BE RESTRUCTURED OR REVAMPED LATER, WE CAN

BRING IT BACK IN A COUPLE OF YEARS BUT GIVE AT CHANCE TO

WORK.

IT'S KIND OF FUNNY HOW WE TALK ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF THE

BOARD, THE ITEM THAT WAS PROPOSED AND I KNOW THEY DON'T WANT

TO DO THE FIVE FIVE AND ONE, BUT THAT IS AN EQUAL UNBIASED

BOARD.

WHEN YOU MAKE IT 7-4 NOW YOU ARE LEANING TO A BIASED BOARD

AND WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS AND BIAS TRAINING.

WE NEED OUR BOARDS TO BE UNBIASED AND MAKING THEM 5, 5 AND

1.

THIS IS THE LAST THING I AM GOING TO TALK ABOUT.

YOU GUYS HAVE CITY APPOINTED ATTORNEY, MARTY SHELBY FOR YOU.

HE'S DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB.

YOU LIKE HIM SO MUCH THAT HE GOT A VERY GENEROUS RAISE THAT

YOU PROPOSED FOR HIM.

HOW IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE CRB ATTORNEY THAT IS

SUPPLIED BY THE CITY?

IF THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY, MARTY SHELBY SPEAKS

FOUR.

HE ADVISES YOU.

BUT HE WORKS FOR THE CITY.

HE GETS A CITY OF TAMPA PAYCHECK NO DIFFERENT THAN THE CRB.

LET'S END THIS DEBATE TODAY.

THANK YOU.




10:22:03 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

10:22:04 >> MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCILMAN, DANIEL ALVAREZ, TAMPA PBA

GENERAL COUNSEL.

FIRST, THANK YOU FOR THE TIME ALLOWING ME TO BE HERE AND

HAVE THIS DISCUSSION.

I WANT TO COMMEND COUNCILMAN MIRANDA FOR THE COURAGE TO

STAND UP FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA POLICE OFFICER, BECAUSE WHAT

HE SAYS AND WHAT HIS MOTIVATIONS ARE EVEN THOUGH HE AND I

HAVE NOT SPOKEN ARE SPOT ON.

WHEN I WAS A LIEUTENANT IN THE ARMY I WAS TOLD THAT IN

DECISIVENESS IS THE CANCER OF LEADERSHIP, AND WHAT WE HAVE

HERE IS THE CONSTANT KICKING OF A BALL WHICH LEADS TO IN

DECISIVENESS, WHICH IS IN DECISIVENESS AND HAS US IN THE

POSITION THAT WE ARE TODAY.

WE KNOW, AND I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD BE ULTRA PROUD OF WHAT

YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU SHOULD BE

TAKING UP AND YOU SHOULD HAVE THE COURAGE TO TAKE UP AS IS

TODAY, WITHOUT ANY CHANGES AS IT GOES.

WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE DONE IT.

YOU ARE THE MODEL OF TRANSPARENCY, YOU ARE THE MODEL OF

OVERSIGHT AND YOU ARE SEEKING POLICE REFORM?

WELL, GUESS WHAT, YOU GOT IT.

EVERY ONE OF THE STAKEHOLDERS TODAY AND HERE HAS COMPROMISE.

WE WERE ALL IN AGREEMENT COMING INTO JANUARY, AND BY ALL, I

MEAN EVERYONE, BUT THE ACLU.




WHAT YOU SAW TODAY WAS A SHAKEDOWN OF TIP CAM PURPOSES, AND

I SAY THAT RELUCTANTLY BECAUSE I ADMIRE THE ACLU.

I LOVE WHAT THEY STAND FOR WHEN IT COMES TO CIVIL RIGHTS.

BUT WHAT YOU SEE HERE TODAY IS EACH ONE OF YOU IS GETTING

PRESSURED BY SOMEONE WHO HAS GIVEN NOTHING WITH PEOPLE WHO

HAVE GIVEN EVERYTHING, AND BY PEOPLE, I MEAN QUITE

COMPLICITLY THE CITY, THE MAYOR, THE POLICE, THE UNION THAT

REPRESENTS THOSE POLICE, AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

EVEN THE CRB MEMBERS THEMSELVES.

THEY ARE READY TO GET TO WORK.

YOU WANTED IT.

YOU GOT IT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT TWO THINGS REALLY QUICKLY.

YOUR INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY.

AND DARLA HIT IT RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

MARTY SHELBY IS A PHENOMENAL ATTORNEY BUT NOBODY QUESTIONS

HIS INDEPENDENCE AND HIS ETHICS OR HIS ABILITY TO COUNSEL

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU AND GIVE YOU THE BEST ADVICE

POSSIBLE.

HIS PAYCHECK IS THE CITY OF TAMPA.

GINA HAS DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB BIFURCATING ONE OF HER

ATTORNEYS AND ASSIGNING THAT PERSON TO THE CRB.

NO ONE WILL EVER QUESTION THAT PERSON AND SAY, ARE YOU

INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO GIVE LEGAL COUNSEL?

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT?




THAT'S A FLORIDA BAR COMPLAINT.

AND I'M SURE MY LEGAL LICENSE IS THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE'S

AND THEY TOLD ME THAT WHOEVER PAYS ME ISN'T WHO MY CLIENT

IS.

WHO MY CLIENT IS WHO I OWE THE DUTY.

ON TOP OF THAT WE HAVE GOT TO LEARN TALK ABOUT COMPOSURE OF

THE BOARD.

WE UNDERSTAND ABOUT EQUALITY AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING

FOR.

WE ARE LOOKING FOR A DIVERSITY OF EQUALITY.

THE MAYOR GETS HER VOICE.

THE COUNCIL GETS THEIR VOICE.

AND THEN YOU KNOW WHAT WE PUT?

WE PUT THE NAACP.

10:25:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AS THE CIVIL RIGHTS LEADERS, THEY GET

ONE OF THEIR VOICE.

WE ARE ALL ON BOARD FOR THIS.

[BELL SOUNDS]

WHAT THE WE ARE ASKING FOR IS DECISIVENESS AND YOUR SUPPORT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HAVE A GREAT DAY.

10:25:28 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LAST SPEAKER?

10:25:37 >> NO MORE SPEAKERS AT THIS TIME.

10:25:39 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

WE GO TO THE CALLS.




10:25:45 >>THE CLERK:
THE FIRST SPEAKER IS JENNIFER TOLLHORST OF THE

JENNIFER DID NOT PHONE IN TO PARTICIPATE.

WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO THE NEXT SPEAKER, JEAN STROHMEYER.

PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF.

YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.

10:25:58 >> HELLO EVERYBODY.

HOW ARE YOU TODAY?

GOOD MORNING.

SO YOU GUYS ALL PROBABLY RECEIVED, I SENT MY WEEKLY UPDATE

ON MY OPINIONS, NOT THAT MY OPINIONS MATTER, BUT I DO

BELIEVE WHEN I SEND THOSE THAT IT REPRESENTS A BETTER

PORTION, AND I SUBMIT QUESTIONS TO YOU ALL THAT I HOPE YOU

ALL DO ANSWER.

I HOPE YOU ALL HAVE ANSWERED ME WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE.

ANYWAY, TODAY'S AGENDA ITEMS, I HAVE SCHEDULED, THERE WAS

THE ONE WHICH IS BEING MOVED.

THERE WERE A COUPLE ON THE BROWNFIELDS.

BROWNFIELD IS NOW THE NEW BUZZ WORD FOR LET'S BUILD MORE

APARTMENTS SOMEWHERE, AND WE'LL PAY TO CLEAN IT UP.

THESE GUYS SAY THEY ARE GOING TO PAY TO CLEAN IT UP BUT MOST

PEOPLE MIGHT NOT REALIZE THEY GET PAID BACK FOR DOING IT SO

IT'S TO BUILD MORE APARTMENTS.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY USE FOR PUBLIC PURPOSE.

ITEM NUMBER 42, TALKING ABOUT LOCAL SALES TAX.

AND NOW WE ARE GOING BACK INTO ANOTHER WAY TO BRING IN A




SALES TAX.

I TOTALLY AM AGAINST THAT AND I THINK A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE

ARE AND WE ARE GOING TO BE NAY SAYING ON THAT ONE.

I THINK THAT THE CITY NEEDS TO LIVE WITHIN THEIR MEANS

CONSTANTLY AND LOOK AT ANY GOVERNMENT SPENDING OF THE CITY

RIGHT NOW BASED ON EVERYBODY ELSE WAS HAD BEEN SHUT DOWN,

SMALL BUSINESSES NEED TO REBOUND AND I DON'T THINK THE CITY

SHOULD BE SPENDING A BUNCH OF MONEY THAT WE THE PEOPLE JUST

HAD NOT BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FOR OURSELVES.

ITEM NUMBER 53, GENDER AND RACIAL EQUALITY, I BELIEVE

EVERYBODY SHOULD BE TREATED RESPECTFULLY, WITH RESPECT AND

DIGNITY AT ALL TIMES, AND TO SEPARATE PEOPLE BY GENDER,

RACE, BY WHATEVER, THEY SHOULDN'T BE SEPARATED.

I WENT TO SCHOOL WHEN THEY STARTED BUSING PEOPLE.

MY DAD CALLED IT KIDNAPPING.

AND NOW EVERYBODY IS BEING LABELED, SO I DON'T THINK LABELS

ARE A GOOD -- WE SHOULD ALL BE LABELED FELLOW CITIZENS OF

TAMPA, OR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, OR AMERICANS, BUT NOT BY THE

SMALL SUBGROUPS TO ACTUALLY DIVIDE PEOPLE EVEN THOUGH THEY

ARE TRYING TO SAY IT'S BRINGING THEM TOGETHER, AND I DON'T

BELIEVE THAT'S THE WAY GOD INTENDED THINGS TO BE.

ITEM NUMBER 3, GANDY BOULEVARD, THE LEASE IS OVER, THERE'S A

BUNCH OF MONEY THERE.

THAT MONEY SHOULD BE GOING TO SOUTH OF GANDY.

THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY -- IT WAS THE REVENUE CAME IN, THAT'S




WHERE THE REVENUE SHOULD GO.

WE HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED SINCE 2006, AND THERE'S A LOT OF

MONEY OUT THERE THAT IS GONE.

SO WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THAT MONEY IS.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I AM GOING TO, ALSO, TODAY.

10:29:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

10:29:03 >>THE CLERK:
CHAIR, THAT CONCLUDES GENERAL COMMENTS.

10:29:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LET'S GET BACK TO THE AGENDA.

ITEM NUMBER 1 HAS ALREADY BEEN DEALT WITH EARLIER.

PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE.

10:29:17 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I MOVE ITEMS NUMBER 2 THROUGH 9.

10:29:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

10:29:28 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:29:29 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:29:30 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:29:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:29:33 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:29:34 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:29:35 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

10:29:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MANISCALCO, WILL YOU HANDLE PUBLIC

RECREATION, CULTURAL COMMISSION?

10:29:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I MOVE ITEMS 10 THROUGH 14.




10:29:45 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECOND BY MR. MIRANDA.

ROLL CALL.

10:29:48 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:29:50 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:29:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:29:53 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:29:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

10:29:57 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:29:58 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:30:00 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

10:30:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER, NUMBER 16 AND 17, DO YOU

WANT A SEPARATE VOTE ON THEM?

10:30:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I MOVE ITEMS 17 THROUGH 22.

10:30:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SECOND.

10:30:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
[OFF MICROPHONE] ROLL CALL VOTE, FLEECE.

10:30:18 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:30:23 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:30:24 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:30:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:30:26 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:30:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

10:30:29 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:30:29 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

10:30:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MR. CHAIRMAN, IN REGARD TO ITEM 15 AND

16, I KNOW THAT WE ALL LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL ON




THESE TYPES OF LARGE CONTRIBUTION PROJECTS, $567,000.

AND SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT THE WMBE PARTICIPATION.

I BELIEVE ON ITEM 150, IT CAME OUT TO ZERO PERCENT.

AND ITEM 16 CAME OUT TO 2.57%.

SO ANYWAY, THIS ONE FOR WHATEVER REASON LAGGED BEHIND.

SO IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO MOVE 15 AND 16, YOU ARE WELCOME

TO.

BE OR WE COULD DEFER IT FOR TWO WEEKS TO SEE IF THE STAFF OR

BIDDERS COULD DO BETTER BUT I AM NOT UNCOMFORTABLE FOR THOSE

TWO ITEMS.

I AM GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THEM.

10:31:35 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, PLEASE.

MRS. GRIMES, 15 AND 16, HOW TIME SENSITIVE ARE THESE?

10:31:46 >>GINA GRIMES:
I AM GOING TO DEFER TO MR. BENNETT.

10:31:48 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M SORRY.

CHIEF, WHAT'S THE TIME SENSITIVITY ON THESE TWO ITEMS?

10:31:53 >>JOHN BENNETT:
CHIEF OF STAFF.

IN RELATION TO ITEMS 15 AND 16, WE SHOULD HAVE THE SPECIFIC

ADMINISTRATORS ONLINE TO ADDRESS THE TIME SENSITIVITY.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE A GENERAL COMMENT TO COUNCILMAN

DINGFELDER'S CONVERSATION.

WE KNOW NEXT WORKSHOP WHICH IS THE END OF THIS MONTH, THERE

WILL BE A SIX-MONTH DBO REVIEW YEAR TO DATE, WHICH WILL

COVER ALL OF THE COMPETITIVE EXPENSE FOR THE CITY, ALSO

COVER THE CONTRACTING AND ALL THE PROGRESS THAT MS. WYNN AND




HER OFFICE IN THE EBO OFFICE HAVE DONE SINCE THE WORKSHOP IN

JANUARY.

SO THAT WILL GIVE AN ENTIRE SCORECARD FOR THAT SIX-MONTH

PERIOD BEYOND STARTING WITH FY 21.

AND I DO APPRECIATE MR. DINGFELDER'S COMMENTS, BOTH TODAY

AND QUITE OFTEN IN THE AGENDA REVIEW PROCESS ABOUT THE

JOURNEY THAT EVERYBODY IS ON AND THE INCREASE.

SO I WOULD ASK TO SEE IF ONE OF THE ADMINISTRATORS FOR THESE

TWO ITEMS IS ONLINE TO SPEAK TO THEIR TIMELINESS.

10:33:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MR. BAIRD POPPED UP.

10:33:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
BEFORE WE GET TO MR. BAIRD, LET ME ASK A

QUESTION OF YOU.

I GOT POSED THIS QUESTION BY SOME COMMUNITY LEADERS AS WELL.

WHAT ARE WE DOING ON THESE CONTRACTS?

WHEN WE BREAK THESE CONTRACTS DOWN, ARE WE BREAK IT DOWN,

ARE WE SAYING THIS MUCH IS GOING FOR DRYWALL PERSON,

CONCRETE PERSON, ARE WE BREAKING IT DOWN TO SEE HOW WE ARE

GETTING THOSE OTHERS AND MAYBE -- IF YOU HAVE GOT THIS

BROKEN DOWN IT SHOULD BE BROKEN DOWN TO THE CATEGORY OF

DRYWALL, IF IT'S CONCRETE, PAINTING, WHATEVER WITH THOSE

NUMBERS.

I WOULD LIKE MR. BAIRD TO ANSWER THAT.

I THINK IT'S KEY TO THIS PROCESS.

10:33:55 >>JOHN BENNETT:
AGAIN I WILL SAY IN GENERAL BEFORE OUR

DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR BRAD BAIRD SPEAKS, WE HAVE CHARGED




STAFF WITH UNBUNDLING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE WORKSHOP, AS WE ALL KNOW, WE ARE

BALANCING TIME, QUALITY, CAPACITY, AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO

ENGAGE IN CITY CONTRACTS, BOTH FOR PROCUREMENT AND FOR

ACTUAL CONTRACTING.

SO STAFF HAS BEEN DOING WHAT I THINK IS A YEOMAN'S EFFORT TO

UNBUNDLE THINGS.

WHEN THEY GET DOWN TO THAT GRANULARITY, AND MR. SPEARMAN

HOPEFULLY WILL SPEAK TO THIS AT THE WORKSHOP, SOME OF THOSE

JOB ORDER CONTRACTS, THAT'S THE PURE DESIGN OF THAT, IS TO

BREAK IT DOWN INTO THOSE SMALL JOBS TO ALLOW MORE EQUAL

BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE.

AND I DO COMMEND COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO AND I DO COMMEND

STAFF FOR LOOKING AT THESE ITEM BY ITEM AND THE GRANULARITY

BECAUSE IF YOU WIN THE ITEM YOU ACTUALLY PREVAIL IN THE

ENTIRE EBO SYSTEM.

AND SO LOOKING AT THEM WITHOUT GRANULARITY IN EACH ITEM IN

THE BACKUP.

BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING AND I KNOW THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT

LOOKS AT THIS AND WE AUDIT IT AS WELL, THAT EVERY CONTRACT

THAT COMES BEFORE YOU HAS BEEN DONE IN A LEGAL, ETHICAL AND

COMPLIANT WAY TO MOVE THAT ITEM FORWARD.

SO WITH THAT I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR. BAIRD.

10:35:13 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ONE MORE THING, CHIEF.

I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN A REAL CHAMPION TO TRY TO MOVE THIS




THING BUT WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM HEARING THAT SOME OF

THE DEPARTMENT MANAGERS THERE ARE KIND OF LEERY OF JOC SO I

HOPING WE CAN START GET THEM TO USING JOC AND THEN BE

BOLSTERED IF THEY UNDERSTAND IT IS AN AVENUE TO GET TO WHAT

WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO.

10:35:35 >>JOHN BENNETT:
AND THAT'S A GREAT COMMENT, CHAIRMAN.

ANOTHER THING, TOO, NOT ONLY JOC BUT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT,

WHEN YOU UNBUNDLE THINGS YOU ARE MANAGING MORE CONTRACTS.

SO WE ARE WORKING WITH STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE

EMPOWERED TO MANAGE THOSE CONTRACTS, AND GET EVERYBODY

ENGAGED THAT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE BEST OUTCOME FOR

THE COMMUNITY.

10:35:55 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP.

MR. BAIRD.

10:35:58 >>BRAD BAIRD:
BRAD BAIRD, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR OF

INFRASTRUCTURE.

FIRST, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE TWO ITEMS FROM A PROJECT

STANDPOINT BEFORE TURNING IT OVER TO MR. HART TO ADDRESS THE

EBO ISSUES.

THE FIRST ONE, NUMBER 150, IS DAVIS ISLAND BRIDGE REPAIR AND

REHABILITATION.

PROJECT, WHERE WE HAVE BEFORE YOU TODAY A CHANGE ORDER TO

REPAIR SPAULDING AND COATING.

WHEN WE SANDBLASTED THE BRIDGE IN FEBRUARY WAS THAT

ADDITIONAL CORROSION HAD ACCELERATED BEYOND THE ORIGINAL




ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE THREE YEARS AGO.

SO ENGINEER OF RECORD IN MARCH RECOMMENDED THAT WE PERFORM

THESE REPAIRS.

A WORST CASE SCENARIO.

IF WE DON'T, THE BRIDGE WOULD NEED TO BE SHUT DOWN.

AT LEAST DURING NIGHTTIME WORK.

SO VERY TIME SENSITIVE.

VERY IMPORTANT WORK.

AND THIS WORK IS ONGOING.

AS WE SPEAK.

THE SECOND ITEM, ITEM 16, IS HILLSBOROUGH RIVER DAM

ORIGINATION WHERE WE ARE TARGETING IF YOU WILL THE NORTH

EMBANKMENT OF THE DAM WITH SOME GROUNDING PIERS THAT WILL

REINFORCE THIS EMBANKMENT WHICH WAS BUILT 120 YEARS AGO.

WE DID DO SOME WORK ALREADY, BUT REMOVAL OF TREES IN THAT

EMBANKMENT, AND THIS IS A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT WORK TO HARDEN

THAT DAM AND REDUCE THE RISK OF FAILURE.

SO I WOULD URGE CITY COUNCIL THAT BOTH OF THESE ITEMS ARE

VERY IMPORTANT TO MOVE FORWARD, AND WITH THAT I WILL TURN IT

OVER TO GREGORY HART.

THANK YOU.

10:38:15 >>GREGORY HART:
GOOD MORNING, GREGORY HART, EQUAL BUSINESS

OPPORTUNITY.

LET ME RESPOND TO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, I BELIEVE CHAIRMAN

GUDES JUST ASKED.




WE DO ASSESS THE SCOPE OF PROJECTS AS A TASK AND DETERMINE

WHAT IS SUBCONTRACTABLE, AND WHO IS CERTIFIED, READY WILLING

AND ABLE TO RESPOND TO THOSE TASKS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED

AS SUBCONTRACTABLE.

SO YES, SIR, WE DO DO THAT.

LET ME ALSO SAY, IN REGARD TO THESE TWO PROJECTS, THAT THOSE

MUST BE RETAINED ON THE BASIS OF WORK THAT CORRESPOND WITH

READY, WILLING AND ABLE CERTIFIED.

WITH REGARD TO 15, NOW THIS PROJECT HAD ONE SUBCONTRACTABLE

TASK THAT ALIGNED WITH THE SPECIALIZED SCOPE TO D.O.T.

GUIDELINES, AND THE BIDDER DID A YEOMAN'S JOB WITH THAT ONE

TASK THAT WE IDENTIFIED AS SUBCONTRACTABLE.

THEY REACHED OUT, AND AS A MATTER OF FACT THAT HAS HAPPENED

TO BE STEELE COLTING.

AND WHAT WE DO IN EBO IS WE ARE FAIRLY LIBERAL WHEN WE GIVE

THE CONTRACTORS A CONTACT LIST SO WE PROVIDED THIS BIDDER, I

THINK THERE WERE ONLY TWO BIDDERS ON THIS, BECAUSE OF THE

SPECIALIZED NATURE AND LICENSING REQUIRED BY D.O.T.

BUT ANYWAY, WE GAVE THE CONTRACTOR A LIST OF KNOWING THAT

THEY WERE SPECIALIZE, KNOWING THAT THE SCOPE WAS SPECIALIZED

BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO ASSUME THAT ANY OF THESE PAINTERS, WE

GIVE THEM A LIST, MAYBE 15.

AND WE WERE HOPING THAT PERHAPS SOME OF THOSE PAINTERS DID

HAVE THE REQUISITE LICENSING TO DO STEELE COATING.

SO WE COULD GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY.




SO, IN FACT THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

AND AS A RESULT, IT YIELDED NO NBE, SBE PARTICIPATION.

SO IN THAT RESPECT WE DID ALL THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY DO TO

CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY UNDERSTANDING IT WAS A SPECIALIZED

AREA OF WORK.

THE CONTRACTOR WITH OUR SUPPORT DID CONTACT ANY AND ALL

PAINTERS TO SEE IF THEY HAD THE REQUISITE LICENSING TO DO

SO.

SO THAT WAS THE RESULT OF 15 WITH THE BRIDGE REPAIR.

IN REGARD TO 16, SIMILARLY, THIS PROJECT HAD THREE, I

BELIEVE IT WAS, SUBCONTRACT CATEGORIES OF WORK, AND WE SET A

GOAL ON THAT BASED UPON THOSE THREE SUBCONTRACTABLE AREAS,

AND FIRMS THAT ARE READY WILLING AND ABLE TO RESPOND TO

THAT, SO THE GOAL THAT WAS SET WAS 2%.

WELL, THE CONTRACTOR WHO DID HIS OUTREACH CONTACTED THOSE

FOLKS WHO WE SAID AT A MINIMUM THEY NEEDED TO CONTACT AND

NETTED A DBE FIRM THAT WOULD ASSIST WITH SOME OF THE EARTH

WORK IN OTHER AREAS, AND THAT REPRESENTS ABOUT $12,000, 2.1

OR 2.2% OF THE GOAL SO IT ACTUALLY MET AND EXCEEDED THE GOAL

SET BASED UPON THE READY, WILLING AND ABLE METHODOLOGY THAT

WE MUST USE.

SO WE ARE NOT ABLE TO SIT BACK AND JUST ARBITRARILY SET

GOALS AND WHILE 10 OR 15% CERTAINLY SOUND GOOD, THAT WOULD

HAVE BEEN ARBITRARY BECAUSE THE SCOPE OF WORK JUST WASN'T

THERE.




2% GOAL SET, AND WE YIELDED 2.1, 2.2% WITH A DBE FIRM.

AS CHIEF BENNETT MADE MENTION, WE ARE TRACKING, IF YOU WILL,

COUNCIL'S AGENDAS THROUGHOUT THE FISCAL YEAR, AND WE ARE

LOOKING AT THIS IN TERMS OF THE LONG HAUL.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE AGENDA ITEMS, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE

CONTRACTS THAT ARE GOING TO YIELD TREMENDOUS PARTICIPATION

BASED ON THE SCOPE AND THE FIRMS THAT WE HAVE CERTIFIED, AND

THERE WILL BE OTHERS WHERE OPPORTUNITIES WILL BE NOT

EXISTING IN THE SCOPE, BUT AT THE END WE WANT TO AT THE END

OF THE FISCAL YEAR TO BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE TO YOU,

COUNCIL, THAT THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE TEAM HAS DONE ALL

THAT IS NEEDED TO YIELD THE MOST PARTICIPATION POSSIBLE

BASED ON WHAT THE CITY HAS PROCURED THROUGHOUT THE FISCAL

YEAR.

AND IF I MAY SHARE MY SCREEN, I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU HOW

WE ARE FARING THUS FAR.

IS THAT BEING PROJECTED?

10:43:31 >> I CAN'T SEE IT, THOUGH.

10:43:39 >> CLERK'S OFFICE, IS THAT ON THE SCREEN?

10:43:45 >> IT IS ON THE SCREEN.

10:43:46 >> IT MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SHOW YOU BUT THIS IS

TODAY'S COUNCIL AGENDA. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE FAR LEFT

THERE'S PROBABLY 15 TO 16 AGENDA ITEMS THAT ARE COMPETITIVE

CONTRACTS THAT YOU ARE ADDRESSING TODAY.

OF THOSE 15 OR 16, ABOUT FIVE OF THOSE HAD SCOPES OF WORK




WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO OVERLAY ONE OF OUR EBO INCLUSIVE

INITIATIVES, GOALS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

BASED ON YOUR AGENDA TODAY BASED ON ALL OF THOSE ITEMS, THE

END RESULT IS THAT WE HAVE GENERATED 16.7% EBO

PARTICIPATION.

AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT MATRIX, YOU WILL SEE ON THIS

PARTICULAR AGENDA THE DISTRIBUTION OF THAT PARTICIPATION BY

ETHNICITY AND SMALL LOCAL BUSINESS.

NOW THAT'S JUST TODAY'S AGENDA.

LET ME SHOW YOU WHERE YOU AS COUNCIL AND WE AS

ADMINISTRATION ARE GOING IN TERMS OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

THIS IS OUR SCORECARD AS I REFER TO IT OFTEN.

NOW, WE ARE IN OUR THIRD QUARTER.

AND OF ALL THE AGENDA ITEMS THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED

THROUGHOUT THE FISCAL YEAR, THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE TRENDING.

WE ARE ALMOST, I GUESS, TWO THIRD THE WAY THROUGH OUR THIRD

QUARTER, AND TO DATE WE ARE YIELDING 17% EBO PARTICIPATION.

AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR DB PARTICIPATION IS LEADING THE PACK

WITH 7.5% TO DATE.

THIS IS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE FISCAL YEAR TO YOUR

COUNCIL AGENDA TODAY, HBs AT 3.4%, ABES AT .4, OUR NBEs

DOING FAIRLY WELL, THERE AREN'T MANY CERTIFIED IN OUR

COMMUNITY, AND THEN 5.7%.

SO WE ARE WINNING THE GAME, IF YOU WILL, THUS FAR BUT WE

STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE IN THE THIRD QUARTER.




I HAVE THE FOURTH QUARTER TO GO.

WHAT I AM WANTING TO EMPHASIZE HERE IS THAT WE REALIZE THAT

EVERY AGENDA IS NOT GOING TO BE A HOME RUN OR WE ARE NOT

GOING TO NECESSARILY GET ON THE THIRD OR FOURTH BASE ON

EVERY INDICATION BUT WHERE WE HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO GET

SOMEONE ON BASE AND GET THEM TO HOME BASE OR SCORE, WE ARE

GOING TO MAXIMIZE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

AND TODAY'S AGENDA, 15 AND 16, HAPPEN TO BE A COUPLE OF

THOSE PROJECTS WHERE WE HAVE MAXIMIZED WHAT IS IN THOSE

SCOPES OF WORK THAT LEND THEMSELVES TO SOME LEVEL OF

PARTICIPATION.

I WILL CLOSE THERE AND STAND BY FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

BUT I WANTED TO ATTEMPT TO PUT IT ALL THIS PERSPECTIVE FOR

YOU.

THANK YOU.

10:46:53 >>CARL BRODY:
THIS IS CARL BRODY FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

I WANT TO REMIND COUNCIL OF THE TURF WE ARE TREADING ON.

THESE PROGRAMS, EBO PROGRAMS, ARE VERY LIMITED AND SUBJECT

TO STRICT SCRUTINY WHICH MEANS THEY HAVE TO BE NARROWLY

TAILORED.

AND THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN NARROW THESE EFFECTIVELY IS IF

WE LIMIT THEIR APPLICATIONS, SO THAT, YES, WE SET GOALS, BUT

THOSE GOALS HAVE TO BE LIMITED TO WHAT'S AVAILABLE IN THE

COMMUNITY, AND IT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO OUR COMMUNITY IN TERMS

OF WHAT PERCENTAGES ARE BEING RELATED TO THE GOALS THAT WE




CAN ACHIEVE.

AND SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HAVE A SPECIALIZED CONTRACT LIKE

THIS, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE AVAILABLE CONTRACTORS IN THE NBE

CATEGORY.

AND THE CORRECT OUTCOME IS THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO

PROVIDE A WMBE FOR THAT TYPE OF PROGRAM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE

OUR OUTREACH REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE

ORDINANCE, AND THAT ASSURES THAT WE DO AT LEAST MAKE THOSE

WMBEs IN THE COMMUNITY AWARE THAT THESE CONTRACTS ARE

AVAILABLE.

SO WE GO OUT.

WE TRY TO FIND WHO IS AVAILABLE.

WE DO THE BEST JOB WE CAN.

BUT SOMETIMES WE ARE GOING TO RUN INTO A PROBLEM WHERE THERE

JUST ARE NOT ELIGIBLE WMBEs TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE THAT WE

NEED.

THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE HAVE TO DO UNDER THE

CONSTITUTIONAL STANDARDS UNDER NARROWLY TAILORED.

SO THIS IS NOT TO BE UNEXPECTED PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU ARE

TALKING ABOUT A SPECIALIZED AGREEMENT LIKE THIS, BUT EBO,

THEY ARE UNDERTAKING MANY OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE SURE

THAT WE ARE GETTING MAXIMIZED WMBE PARTICIPATION.

10:48:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

10:48:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY FOR THAT VERY,

VERY LENGTHY, LONG-WINDED EXPLANATIONS.




MR. BAIRD PROVIDED ME WITH ADEQUATE EXPLANATION IN REGARD TO

THE BRIDGE REPAIR.

I THINK THAT'S HAIL SPECIALIZED.

AND I WILL BE WILLING TO SUPPORT ITEM 15.

I WILL NOT BE WILLING TO SUPPORT ITEM 16.

I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY IN THAT TYPE OF

PROJECT TO -- AND IF WE DON'T HAVE THE FOLKS ON OUR LIST,

THEN WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING A LIST.

AND I AM NOT GOING TO DRINK THE KOOL AID.

SO THAT'S JUST MY OPINION; MR. CHAIRMAN.

I'LL PASS THE GAVEL TO MR. CARLSON IN REGARD TO -- MOVING

ITEM 15 OR 16 IF YOU SO WISH.

SINCE HE'S THE VICE CHAIR.

10:49:48 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
PLAINTIFF CARLSON?

CARL.

10:49:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
ACTUALLY, I WILL MOVE ITEM 15 BECAUSE I

SAID I WILL VOTE FOR IT.

10:49:57 >> SECOND.

10:49:58 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

10:50:03 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:50:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

10:50:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:50:07 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:50:08 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:50:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.




10:50:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:50:11 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

10:50:12 >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIR, SO ON ITEM 16, I PHILOSOPHICALLY

AGREE WITH MR. DINGFELDER, BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP THE BUSINESS

MOVING, AND I HOPE THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP THE NUMBERS

GOING UP BUT FOR NOW I WILL MOVE NUMBER 16.

10:50:40 >> SECOND.

10:50:40 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:50:43 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:50:44 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:50:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:50:47 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:50:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
NO.

10:50:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:50:51 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH DINGFELDER VOTING NO.

10:50:53 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LET ME SAY ONE THING.

I KNOW THE EBO AND CHIEF BENNETT IS WORKING HARD, ESPECIALLY

MR. BRODY, AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

AT TIMES, GENTLEMEN, I SEE GUYS ON THE ROAD WORKING, AND I

GET THEIR NAMES, AND I ASK THAT QUESTION, ARE YOU CERTIFIED

WITH THE CITY?

LOTS OF TIMES THE ANSWER IS NO.

I GET THEIR NAMES, THEIR PHONE NUMBER, THEIR COMPANY, AND I

SEND TO THE MR. SPEARMAN AND TO MR. HART.

SOMETIMES I GET DISAPPOINTED WHEN THEY SAY, WELL, WE TRADE,




TRIED, AND DIDN'T CALL BACK.

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DISAPPOINTING THAT IS TO ME AT TIMES.

BUT WE CAN'T STOP THERE.

WE HAVE TO KEEP TRYING.

I KNOW SOME OF THESE CONTRACTS ARE NOT GOING TO GET THAT

PARTICIPATION.

I DO UNDERSTAND IT BUT I THINK THAT IN YOUR REPORT, WE NEED

TO INDICATE WHY THE EFFORTS WERE PUT OUT, THAT WAY WE DON'T

GET QUESTIONED ON WHY WE DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS. MAYBE

THE REPORT NEEDS TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE MEAT IN IT, MR.

BRODY, AND THAT WAY COUNCIL ISN'T REQUESTING THAT KIND OF

QUESTION, WHY ISN'T IT OR WHAT HAPPENED?

MIGHT SAY, WELL, IT'S SPECIALIZED CIRCUMSTANCES, WE GO

THROUGH OUR LIST, AND NOBODY CAN DO THAT JOB, AND THAT'S WHY

WE DIDN'T GET PARTICIPATION.

IT'S A MAIN FACTOR WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE

CONTRACTS.

ANY QUESTIONS?

10:52:27 >>JOHN BENNETT:
CHIEF OF STAFF.

JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK COMMENTS.

THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK.

I WILL SAY THAT IF ANY COUNCIL OR ANY PUBLIC RUNS INTO AN

OPPORTUNITY TO GET SOMEBODY CERTIFIED AND THEY GET FEEDBACK

THAT THERE WAS COMPLICATIONS OR BARRIERS THAT GET THAT TO MY

OFFICE AND I WILL PERSONALLY WALK THROUGH THAT WITH MS.




WYNN'S OFFICE AND DOWN TO MR. HART'S OFFICE.

SECONDLY, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT THAT DURING

THE WORKSHOP COUNCILMAN MIRANDA SUPPORTED BY I BELIEVE

COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER TALKED ABOUT THE CITY HELPING TO

OVERCOME SOME OF THESE BARRIERS AS RELATES TO INSURANCE AND

OTHER THINGS.

AND I KNOW THAT STAFF IS WILLING, SO MAYBE WE CAN REDISCUSS

THAT AT THE WORKSHOP HERE COMING UP AT THE END OF THE MONTH

TO HELP SOME OF THESE START-UPS AND SMALL GROUPS GET

CERTIFIED AND COVERED IN THE INITIAL PHASE OF THEIR

ENTREPRENEURSHIP.

10:53:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, CHIEF.

I KNOW MR. BRODY, I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM IN

REFERENCE TO A COUPLE OF ISSUES REFERENCE TO BONDING AND

LIABILITY INSURANCE.

I KNOW HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH SOME OF THOSE FOLKS IN THE

COMMUNITY, AND HAD A COUPLE OF MEETINGS.

SO I AM HOPING WE ARE KIND OF MOVING THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD

AND MAKE SURE THOSE FOLKS GET AN OPPORTUNITY AS WELL AND BE

ON OUR LIST.

SO AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE THE BOND SITUATION GOING ON,

MR. DINGFELDER.

WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THAT?

WORKING WITH STAFF, OR ANYBODY DOING IT?

10:53:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
NOT THAT I AM AWARE OF.




MAYBE THAT GOES ON THAT LAUNDRY LIST FOR THAT WORKSHOP.

10:53:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I MADE A MOTION TO COME BACK AND MR.

BENNETT HAS ALLUDED TO IT NOW, THAT IS WHEN YOU ARE

QUALIFIED TO DO A JOB, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE GOING TO

GET THE JOB, BECAUSE IT COMES WITH OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU MAY

NOT HAVE, THE CAPITAL TO DO.

CERTAINLY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BOND, PERFORMANCE BOND.

YOU HAVE A FINANCIAL OPERATION.

YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE -- BE ABLE TO PAY FOR YOUR WORKMAN'S

COMPENSATION, AND YOU ASK 99% OF THE PUBLIC, THEY DON'T HAVE

NONE OF THAT.

AND I AM NOT BEING DISSING IS TO ALL THE 99% OF THE PUBLIC

BUT THE MOTION THAT I ORIGINALLY MADE WAS THAT WE WORK WITH

THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT THEY TAKE THE LEAD IN SECURING

THESE THINGS, AND WHEN PAYMENT IS MADE TO THAT SUBCONTRACTOR

TO DO THE JOB THAT THOSE ITEMS ARE SUBTRACTED FROM THE

PAYMENT TO PAY FOR THE BOND THAT HE OR SHE YOU DIDN'T HAVE,

AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK MR. BENNETT WAS ALLUDING TO.

10:54:54 >>OCEA WYNN:
IF I MAY JUMP IN.

I AM NOT SURE IF YOU CAN SEE ME OR NOT.

10:55:02 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

10:55:05 >>OCEA WYNN:
YES.

SO WE HAVE TAKEN THE LEAD ON IDENTIFYING OPPORTUNITIES FOR

BOTH BONDING AND INSURANCE, WHEN THE REQUEST CAME FROM

COUNCIL MONTHS AGO, WE STARTED TO RESEARCH AND INVESTIGATING




WHAT THAT WILL INVOLVE, AND DURING THE WORKSHOP NEXT WEEK,

WE WILL REPORT ON SOME OF THE FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS.

SO I WANTED TO SAY WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS IN THAT AREA.

NOTHING SOLIDIFIED JUST YET BUT WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS IN

THAT AREA.

10:55:41 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW SOME OF THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE DIAGNOSE

THOSE TYPES OF THINGS SO WE NEED TO REACH OUT TO THEM AS

WELL AND SEE HOW THEY ARE DOING.

I KNOW MR. BRODY HEARD THOSE ISSUES, AND TEACHING ME SOME

THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW AND KICKING THAT BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

SO WE STILL HAVE A LITTLE WAYS TO GO BUT I APPRECIATE ALL

THE EFFORTS.

10:56:04 >>OCEA WYNN:
YES, SIR.

10:56:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE WILL MOVE ON.

MR. CARLSON, CAN YOU MOVE 32 THROUGH 39, SIR?

10:56:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THAT'S ME, MR. CHAIRMAN.

23 THROUGH 31 I MOVE.

10:56:20 >> SECOND.

10:56:21 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOVED AND SECONDED.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

10:56:27 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

10:56:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:56:30 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:56:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.




10:56:34 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:56:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:56:39 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

10:56:42 >>BILL CARLSON:
THE NEXT ONE COMING UP, ITEM 38, I WAS

REMINDED BY JEAN STROHMEYER'S COMMENTS THIS MORNING THAT SHE

SENT US A VERY LONG EMAIL ABOUT NUMBER 34, AND I HATE TO

DUMP THIS ON THE LAST MINUTE, BUT IF MR. BENNETT OR SOMEBODY

COULD JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.

CAN SOMEBODY ASSURE US THAT THAT LEASE IS AT MARKET RATE?

SHE DID A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS.

NUMBER 34.

IT'S A SUBMERGED LAND LEASE SITE FOR A BOAT SLIP OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I APOLOGIZE TO THE CHIEF; HER COMMENTS REMINDED OF THIS.

CAN I MOVE 32, 33, AND THEN 35 THROUGH 39?

10:57:34 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

10:57:36 >>BILL CARLSON:
SO 32 AND THEN 35 THROUGH 39.

10:57:39 >> MOTION BY DINGFELDER, SECONDED BY -- I'M SORRY, MR.

CARLSON.

MR. DINGFELDER SECONDED.

10:57:54 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ROLL CALL.

(ROLL CALL VOTE).

10:57:58 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH CITRO BEING

ABSENT AT VOTE.

10:58:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND HOLD THAT FOR STAFF REPORTS?




IS THAT YOUR REQUEST, COUNCILMAN CARLSON?

10:58:08 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

THANK YOU.

10:58:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GO TO ITEM NUMBER -- BEFORE WE GO INTO STAFF REPORTS,

NUMBER 40, MR. VIERA.

WE GO INTO STAFF REPORTS WITH 41 AND 42.

MR. SHELBY, YOU WILL NEED TO READ THOSE, CORRECT?

10:58:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NUMBER 40?

THAT'S GOING TO BE FOR STAFF REPORTS.

NUMBER 40.

41 AND 42 ARE ON THE CONSENT DOCKET FOR ITEMS BEING SET BY

COUNCIL CONSENT.

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK SOMEBODY TO MOVE TWO RESOLUTIONS

WITHOUT COMMENT.

10:58:41 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MANISCALCO MOTIONED IT.

SECOND BY MR. MIRANDA.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

10:58:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

10:58:55 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

10:58:56 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

10:58:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:59:00 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

10:59:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

10:59:02 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH CITRO BEING




ABSENT AT VOTE.

10:59:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

10:59:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I JUST WANT TO STATE FOR THE RECORD, I

KNOW WE HAVE HAD A FEW CALLS AND CONTACTS ABOUT 41 AND 42,

THE BROWNFIELD ISSUES.

41, BROWNFIELD.

I WANT TO SAY TO ANYBODY THAT'S LISTENING OR WATCHING THAT

WHAT WE HAVE DONE TODAY IS MERELY TO SET THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THAT'S JUST A MINISTERIAL TASK THAT WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY

OPTIONS ABOUT.

WE ARE NOW SETTING PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 3rd, AND THEN

JUNE 24th ON THE FIRST ONE.

SO IF PEOPLE WANT TO ACTUALLY SPEAK TO THE MERITS OF THAT

BROWNFIELD, ON ITEM 41, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S WHEN THEY CAN

COME AND DO IT.

10:59:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I SAW MR. MIRANDA'S HAND.

10:59:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
ALONG WITH MR. DINGFELDER ON 42 THAT IS

NOT A NEW TAX.

THAT'S A TAX THAT WAS PASSED BY THE TAXPAYERS BACK IN

SEPTEMBER OF '96, 30 YEAR TAX, HALF PENNY, TO FUND CERTAIN

ITEMS.

THAT SAME OPERATION WENT TO THE TAXPAYERS IN FEBRUARY OF 96,

AND THEY HAD LITTLE SUPPORT FROM ANY MEDIA OUTLET TO THE

POINT OF -- I CAN'T SAY, IT WAS SOME SUPPORT, BUS IT'S JUST

FOR GOVERNMENT AND THE SCHOOL BOARD AND IT FAILED.




THE SAME PROJECT WAS BROUGHT IN BACK IN SEPTEMBER, AND THOSE

BEHIND THAT PROJECT SPENT 484,000 MAKING SURE IT PASSED.

THE TAXPAYERS SPENT ZERO.

AND IT PASSED 51-49 AND THAT WAS TO FUND STADIUMS ALONG WITH

THE PUBLIC NEED.

BUT THIS ADDRESSES THE LAST BITE OF THE HALF PENNY SALES TAX

THAT WILL BE USED IN THIS GOVERNMENT FOR WHAT IT HAS BEEN

USED IN THE PAST, FOR EQUIPMENT AND AUTOMOBILES AND THINGS

OF THAT NATURE.

ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO TO MAKE THE PUBLIC HAVE THE SERVICES

THAT THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GIVE TO THE PUBLIC.

AND THIS IS THE LAST BITE OF IT.

SO BE AWARE OF IT.

I HAVE HEARD RUMORS IN THE STREET THAT THAT CONTRACT, I

DON'T KNOW, I AM NOT IN THAT BOARD AND I DON'T WANT TO BE ON

THE BOARD, I COULD HAVE APPOINTED MYSELF TO THE BOARD MANY

TIMES WHEN I WAS CHAIRMAN, I NEVER DID THAT.

HOWEVER, THIS IS A STREET THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT A REVAMP

AND MAYBE EVEN THE SPORTS AUTHORITY MAY NOT EACH BE AWARE OF

THIS.

MAYBE THIS IS A FALSE RUMOR THAT I HEARD, THAT NOW THEY WANT

500 MILLION.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A FACT.

I APOLOGIZE.

IT'S A RUMOR THAT I HEARD ON THE STREET AND I HAVE TO




EXPRESS IT.

BUT THIS IS NOT A NEW SALES TAX.

THIS IS THE LAST BITE FOR THIS GOVERNMENT, THE COUNTY

GOVERNMENT, TO HAVE WHAT WAS APPROVED IN FEBRUARY OF 96

WHERE IT FAILED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.

11:01:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

11:01:57 >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST TO WHAT COUNCILMAN MIRANDA JUST SAID,

IT'S NOT A NEW TAX BUT ALSO THIS IS SCHEDULING A PUBLIC

HEARING, SO THE CITY CAN HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC ABOUT HOW TO

SPEND IT WHICH I THINK IS WHAT WE WANT.

SO IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

BUT TO THE OTHER POINT, FOLLOWING ON WHAT COUNCILMAN

DINGFELDER SAID ALSO, I HAVE ALSO HEARD CONCERNS ABOUT THE

BROWNFIELD SITE, AND MY HAVING LOOKED AT IT SO FAR, I WILL

LOOK AT IT AGAIN MORE BEFORE IT COMES UP FOR THE MEETING,

BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO SEPARATE BROWNFIELDS FROM THE ISSUE

OF WHAT WOULD GO ON THE LAND.

IT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE AND THE INTENT IS TO STOP BROWNFIELD

REMEDIATION, TO STOP ANOTHER PROJECT.

I THINK WE HAVE TO SEPARATE THOSE TWO ISSUES.

BROWNFIELD MEANS THAT THERE'S ENVIRONMENTALLY POLLUTED LAND,

AND THIS IS ENVIRONMENTALLY POLLUTED LAND IN SOUTH TAMPA,

AND I THINK WE NEED TO CLEAN IT UP.

WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW ENVIRONMENTALLY POLLUTED LAND TO




CONTINUE BECAUSE COUNTY SEEP INTO THE AQUIFER AND OTHER

NATURAL RESOURCES THAT HARM OUR ENVIRONMENT.

THEN THE ISSUES AS TO WHAT SHOULD GO ON THE LAND IS

SEPARATE.

THANK YOU.

11:02:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.

43 THROUGH 49.

MOTION BY MR. MANISCALCO.

SECOND BY MR. CITRO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

ALL RIGHT.

ITEM NUMBER 43.

11:03:11 >>RYAN MANASSE:
FILE AB 2-21-04 IS BEFORE YOU FOR SECOND

READING AND ADOPTION.

IT WAS FOR A SMALL VENUE ON PREMISES AND PACKAGE SALES FOR

OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION FOR THE SALE OF BEER AND WINE AND

THAT WAS LOCATED AT 6203 NORTH FLORIDA AVENUE.

CERTIFIED SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO THE CITY CLERK

WITH THE CORRECTIONS FROM THE REVISION SHEET AS WELL AS WHAT

WAS DISCUSSED AT CITY COUNCIL ON FIRST READING.

STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

11:03:42 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IS THE APPLICANT HERE?

11:03:46 >>THE CLERK:
APPLICANT DID NOT REGISTER FOR THIS ITEM




VIRTUALLY.

11:03:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS ANYBODY ON THE SECOND FLOOR?

11:03:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION MOVE TO CLOSE BY MR. DINGFELDER.

SECOND BY THE MR. MANISCALCO.

MR. MANISCALCO, READ ITEM 43, PLEASE.

11:04:07 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I HAVE AN ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR

SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A

SPECIAL USE PERMIT SU-2 FOR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES SMALL

VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES AND PACKAGE SALES OFF-PREMISES

CONSUMPTION AND MAKING LAWFUL THE SALE OF BEER AND WINE AT

OR FROM THAT CERTAIN LOT, PLOT OR TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT

6203 NORTH FLORIDA AVENUE TAMPA, FLORIDA AS MORE

PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2 PROVIDING THAT ALL

ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED,

PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

11:04:35 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECOND.

11:04:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECOND BY MR. CITRO.

11:04:41 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:04:44 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:04:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:04:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:04:50 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:04:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:04:52 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH VIERA BEING

ABSENT AT VOTE.




11:04:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:


11:05:08 >>RYAN MANASSE:
THIS IS NUMBER 44, FILE AB 2-21-07, FOR

BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR, 3800 NORTH NEBRASKA AVENUE, AGAIN

CERTIFIED SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO THE CITY CLERK

WITH THE CORRECTIONS FROM FIRST READING AND THE REVISION

SHEET.

STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

11:05:22 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

IS THE APPLICANT AVAILABLE?

11:05:25 >>THE CLERK:
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK).

11:05:41 >>THE CLERK:
I THINK YOU ARE MUTED.

11:05:48 >> TYLER HUDSON, 400 NORTH ASHLEY DRIVE.

GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.

I APPRECIATE YOUR UNANIMOUS SUPPORT OF THIS APPLICATION AT

THE LAST HEARING.

I WANT TO TOUCH ON A FEW POINTS.

FIRST THERE WERE THREE SUGGESTED CHANGES THAT COUNCIL MADE

REGARDING SOME LIMITS, ENDING SOUND AT 10 P.M. WHICH WE

UPDATED, HOURS OF OPERATION WHICH WE MADE THAT CHANGE, AND

ALSO PROHIBITING TURNS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

CHAIRMAN GUDES, MIGHT RECALL THAT THEY'RE WHATS A NEIGHBOR

WHO EXPRESSED SOME CONCERN ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

WE THINK BASED UPON A MISCONCEPTION THAT THIS WAS GOING TO

BE A LIQUOR STORE, AND MY CLIENT DID MEET WITH VICKI




BERNARDO, AND GAVE HER AND HER CLIENT, A TOUR OF THE

FACILITY, AND HER CONCERNS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED.

I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER BUT HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

I APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT AGAIN.

THANKS.

11:06:49 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

ANYBODY ON THE SECOND FLOOR?

11:06:52 >> NO ONE REGISTERED FOR THIS ITEM.

11:06:53 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOVE TO CLOSE?

MR. MIRANDA, SECOND FROM MR. MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

MR. CARLSON.

11:07:01 >>BILL CARLSON:
AB 2-21-07, ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR

SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A

SPECIAL USE PERMIT SU-2 INFORM ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES

LARGE VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES AND MAKING LAWFUL THE

SALE OF BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF ALCOHOLIC CONTENT BEER, WINE

AND LIQUOR AT OR FROM THAT CERTAIN PLOT, LOT OR TRACT OF

LAND LOCATED AT 3800 NORTH NEBRASKA AVENUE AS MORE

PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3 PROVIDING THAT ALL

ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED,

REPEALING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2018-145 PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE

DATE.

11:07:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA SECONDED IT.

ROLL CALL VOTE.




11:07:42 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:07:45 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:07:46 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:07:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:07:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:07:50 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:07:52 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH VIERA BEING

ABSENT AT VOTE.

11:07:55 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

ITEM NUMBER 45, MR. MANASSE.

11:08:02 >>RYAN MANASSE:
ITEM NUMBER 45 IS AB 2-21-13, THIS IS

BEFORE YOU FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, FOR A SMALL

VENUE CONSUMPTION OFF PREMISES ONLY BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR

AND THIS IS FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1315 EAST 7TH AVENUE

SUITE 101, CERTIFIED SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO THE

CITY CLERK, AND STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY

HAVE.

11:08:22 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS?

APPLICANT, PLEASE.

11:08:27 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. ROBINSON?

YOU NEED TO BE SWORN IN, SIR.

11:08:37 >> OH, SORRY.

11:08:38 >>THE CLERK:
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK)




I DO.

SHAWN ROBINSON, REPRESENTATIVE FOR LA PALOMA LOUNGE, 1315

EAST 7th.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR AND COUNCIL.

WE CONCUR WITH STAFF, AND WE HAVE NOTHING FURTHER TO ADD

UNLESS THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS.

MY CLIENT IS AVAILABLE IF YOU NEED TO SPEAK WITH HER.

11:09:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

11:09:07 >> MOVE TO CLOSE.

11:09:12 >> SECOND.

11:09:12 >>THE CLERK:
NO ONE REGISTERED FOR THIS ITEM.

11:09:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CITRO MOVED TO CLOSE.

MR. CITRO, ITEM NUMBER 45, PLEASE.

11:09:23 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
FILE AB 2-21-13, AN ORDINANCE BEING

PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE

APPROVING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT S-2 FOR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE

SALES, SMALL VENUE, CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES ONLY, AND MAKING

LAWFUL THE SALE OF BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF ALCOHOLIC

CONTENT, BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR, ON THAT CERTAIN LOT, PLOT OR

TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT 1315 EAST 7TH AVENUE, SUITE 101,

TAMPA, FLORIDA, AS MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2

PROVIDING THAT ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN

CONFLICT ARE REPEALED, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

11:10:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SECOND.

11:10:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA SECONDED IT.




ALL IN FAVOR?

ROLL CALL VOTE.

11:10:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:10:14 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:10:15 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:10:16 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:10:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:10:19 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:10:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:10:21 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

11:10:22 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 46, SIR.

11:10:25 >>RYAN MANASSE:
ITEM NUMBER 46, AB 2-21-15 BEFORE YOU FOR

SECOND READING AND ADOPTION FOR A SMALL VENUE CONSUMPTION ON

PREMISES AND PACKAGE SALES OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION OF MAKE

AND BUYER WAYNE, THE LOCATION 1701 WEST GRAY STREET AND

CERTIFIED SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO THE CITY CLERK

WITH THE CORRECTIONS AS STATED FROM THE FIRST READING AT THE

HEARING AND STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY

HAVE.

11:10:48 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

ANY QUESTIONS?

DO WE HAVE APE AN APPLICANT?

(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK).

11:10:59 >> YES.

AS STAFF EXPLAINED, OUR APPLICANT AGREED TO THE CONDITIONS




OF THE OPERATION AND THE NOISE OR AFTER 10 P.M. BEING CUT

OFF.

SO OTHER THAN THAT, NO CHANGES WERE MADE AND WE ARE HERE FOR

ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU.

11:11:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN?

DO WE HAVE ANYBODY REGISTERED?

11:11:24 >> NO ONE REGISTERED FOR THIS ITEM.

11:11:28 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA TO CLOSE.

SECOND BY CITRO.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

11:11:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN?

11:11:36 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I'M SORRY.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

MR. DINGFELDER, 46.

I GOT AHEAD OF MYSELF.

11:11:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MOVE FILE AB 2-21-15.

I MOVE THE FOLLOWING ORDINANCE FOR SECOND READING AND

ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT S-2

FOR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES SALES, SMALL VENUE, CONSUMPTION ON

PREMISES AND PACKAGE SALES OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION, AND

MAKING LAWFUL THE SALE OF BEER AND WINE AT OR FROM THAT

CERTAIN LOT, PLOT OR TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT 1701 WEST GRAY

STREET, TAMPA, FLORIDA AS MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN




SECTION 2 PROVIDING THAT ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF

ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE

DATE.

11:12:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SECOND.

11:12:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ROLL CALL.

11:12:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:12:28 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:12:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:12:31 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:12:32 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:12:33 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NO.

11:12:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:12:36 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH CITRO VOTING NO.

11:12:39 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM 47.

11:12:45 >>RYAN MANASSE:
DEVELOPMENT NUMBER 47 IS FILE REZ 21-18.

IT'S BEFORE YOU FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION.

THIS WAS A REZONING REQUEST FOR 3724 WEST SAN PEDRO STREET.

THE REZONING WAS FROM PD PLANNED DEVELOPMENT TO PD PLANNED

DEVELOPMENT FOR OFFICE, BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL, CERTIFIED

SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO THE CITY CLERK WITH

CORRECTIONS MADE, AND STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS

YOU MAY HAVE.

11:13:08 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN?

DO WE HAVE AN APPLICANT?

11:13:14 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
YES, SIR, I'M ON THE SECOND FLOOR.




11:13:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ARE YOU SWORN IN?

11:13:20 >>STEVE MICHELINI:
YES, SIR, I HAVE BEEN.

STEVE MICK LIEN FOR THE PETITIONER.

WE HAVE MADE THE CORRECTIONS AND STIPULATED IN OUR HEARING

PREVIOUSLY.

IT'S BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE CITY STAFF.

AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION AND SUPPORTING

THE SECOND READING.

11:13:34 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN?

DO WE HAVE ANY REGISTERED ON THE SECOND FLOOR?

11:13:39 >> NO ONE HAS REGISTERED.

11:13:41 >> MOVE TO CLOSE.

11:13:44 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA AND SECOND BY CITRO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

11:13:48 >> REZ 2 IS-18, ORDINANCE FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION,

REZONING PROPERTY IN THE GENERAL VICINITY OF 3724 WEST SAN

PEDRO STREET IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA AND MORE

PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 1 FROM ZONING DISTRICT

CLASSIFICATION PD PLANNED DEVELOPMENT, OFFICE, BUSINESS

PROFESSIONAL, TO PD, PLANNED DEVELOPMENT, OFFICE, BUSINESS

PROFESSIONAL, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

11:14:13 >> SECOND.

11:14:16 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOVED, CITRO SECONDED: ROLL CALL VOTE.

11:14:20 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:14:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.




11:14:24 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:14:25 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:14:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:14:27 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:14:28 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

11:14:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 48.

11:14:33 >> THIS IS ROSS WITH DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION OF CITY OF

TAMPA PRESENTING FILE VAC 21-05 FOR SECOND READING AND

ADOPTION.

IT'S A REQUEST FOR AN ALLEYWAY VACATING LOCATED SOUTH OF

CURTIS STREET, NORTH OF HILDA STREET, EAST OF NORTH

BOULEVARD, WEST OF CLEARFIELD AVENUE, 602 AND 604 WEST

CURTIS STREET.

11:14:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
DO WE HAVE AN APPLICANT THERE?

11:15:04 >>THE CLERK:
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK).

11:15:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE SCREENS ON THE DAIS ARE NOT WORKING.

THANK YOU.

YOU HAVE BEEN SWORN IN, SIR?

CAN YOU HEAR US, SIR?

11:15:45 >> YES.

11:15:47 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE ARE READY.

11:15:48 >> YES,

11:15:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY QUESTIONS?

DO WE HAVE ANYBODY ON THE SECOND FLOOR?




ANYBODY REGISTERED?

11:16:03 >> NO ONE HAS REGISTERED FOR THIS ITEM.

11:16:04 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOVE TO CLOSE?

MOTION BY MIRANDA, SECONDED BY MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

MOTION CARRIED.

MR. VIERA, ITEM NUMBER 48, PLEASE SIR.

11:16:17 >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU, SIR.

I MOVE AN ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND

ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE VACATING, CLOSING, DISCONTINUING,

ABANDONING A PORTION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY ALLEYWAY LOCATED SOUTH

OF CURTIS STREET NORTH OF HILDA STREET EAST OF NORTH

BOULEVARD AND WEST OF CLEARFIELD AVENUE WITHIN THE REVISED

PLAT OF SPRING HEIGHTS, A SUBDIVISION IN THE CITY OF TAMPA,

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA AS MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED

IN SECTION 1 HEREOF SUBJECT TO CERTAIN EASEMENT,

RESERVATIONS COVENANTS, CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS AS MORE

PARTICULARLY SET FORTH HEREIN PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

11:16:47 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA MOVED IT.

MR. MANISCALCO SECONDED.

ROLL CALL.

11:16:52 >>BILL CARLSON:
NO.

11:16:54 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:16:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.




11:16:58 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:16:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:17:01 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:17:02 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:17:03 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH CARLSON VOTING NO.

11:17:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 49 OUR LAST ITEM.

11:17:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MOVE TO STRIKE PURSUANT TO THE

PETITIONER'S REQUEST.

11:17:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE WITHDRAWAL, PLEASE.

11:17:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER MADE A MOTION TO WITHDRAW.

SECOND BY MR. MIRANDA.

ROLL CALL.

11:17:25 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:17:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:17:33 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:17:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:17:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:17:37 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:17:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:17:39 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

STAFF REPORTS.

AND WE HAVE MR. CARLSON'S ITEMS 32 AND 34.

I KNOW WE SAID 1:30 FOR STAFF REPORTS BUT WE ARE A LITTLE

EARLY.

DO WE HAVE ANYBODY FOR ITEM 40?




11:18:27 >>VIK BHIDE:
MOBILITY DEPARTMENT FOR ITEM 40.

THIS ITEM IS RELATED TO THE RENEWAL OF THE EXISTING SCOOTER

PILOT THAT WAS INITIATED OVER A YEAR AGO.

THE RENEWAL IS NECESSARY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OUR NEW PROGRAM

IS GOING THROUGH A -- WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE SERVICES.

11:19:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
QUESTION.

11:19:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER.

11:19:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
A BRIEFING IN ADVANCE ON THIS WOULD HAVE

BEEN GOOD, VIK, BECAUSE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT ALL YOU

WANTED -- THIS IS JUST A STOP GAP UNTIL YOU ARE PROPOSING

SOMETHING ELSE?

11:19:19 >>VIK BHIDE:
YES, SIR.

THIS IS A CONTINUANCE OF THE ORIGINAL PILOT UNTIL THE NEW

PROGRAM CAN BE READY.

11:19:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SO YOU ANTICIPATE THE NEW PROGRAM

PERHAPS BEING PROPOSED WITHIN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS?

[NO ENCODER] [NO ENCODER]

11:20:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
-- MANY, MANY RECOMMENDATIONS.

I'M SURE COUNCIL HAS MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE

COMMUNITY HAS A LOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT SCOOTERS OVER THE LAST

COUPLE OF YEARS.

SO I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS OUT ON THE STREET.

I'M NOT SURE THE REST OF COUNCIL DID.

I GUESS MAYBE YOU WANT TO DO INDIVIDUAL BRIEFINGS OR MAYBE

YOU JUST WANT TO SCHEDULE A STAFF REPORT OR PUT IT ON SOME




SORT OF WORKSHOP IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS SO IT DOESN'T

JUST POP UP AT THE LAST MINUTE WITH A FINAL DEAL.

AS FAR AS TODAY IS CONCERNED, I'M OKAY WITH THE SIX MONTH

CONTINUANCE.

11:20:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MR. CHAIRMAN, SO AM I.

HOWEVER, IN THE REPORT, VIK, I WOULD IMAGINE ON YOUR REPORT

YOU WOULD HAVE SOME STANDARDIZATION OF WHAT COMPLAINTS WE

RECEIVED AND SO FORTH AND SO ON.

I HAD COMPLAINTS OF PEOPLE THAT DRIVING MUCH MORE THAN THE

SPEED LIMIT WAS GIVEN, AND THE OTHER DAY I IN CITY HALL I

LOOKED AROUND AND SAW ABOUT SIX OF THEM IN THE MIDDLE OF

FLORIDA AVENUE AND I DON'T THINK THAT WAS APPROPRIATE BUT

THAT WAS JUST ME.

I APPRECIATE THE REPORT.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE IT IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.

THANK YOU.

11:21:22 >>BILL CARLSON:
I HAVE TO VOTE AGAINST THIS BECAUSE I HAVE

GOTTEN MORE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THIS THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THE

LAST TWO YEARS, AND THEY DROPPED OFF IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS

OR A YEAR, PROBABLY BECAUSE PEOPLE GOT TIRED OF COMPLAINING,

BUT I KNOW MR. BHIDE IS WORKING HARD TO COME UP AND WORKING

WITH VENDORS TO COME UP WITH A NEW SOLUTION THAT WILL BE

DIFFERENT THAN THIS SOLUTION.

BUT I JUST CAN'T VOTE FOR SOMETHING THAT AN OVERWHELMING

NUMBER OF MY CONSTITUENTS HATE.




THANK YOU.

11:21:53 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I WILL ADD MY TWO CENTS WORTH.

I RIDE THESE SCOOTERS.

I LOVE THEM.

IF I CAN GET FROM HEAR TO THE CONVENTION CENTER FOR A

CERTAIN FUNCTION THE FIRST THING I DO IS JUMP ON A SCOOTER.

YES, I TOO HAVE ALSO HEARD COMPLAINTS, MOSTLY FROM PEOPLE

WHO ARE TRYING TO WALK ON SIDEWALKS WHILE SCOOTERS ARE

TRYING TO WHIP BY THEM.

I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO AND I WALK TO THE CONVENTION

CENTER AND HAVE TO STEP OFF THE SIDEWALK SO SCOOTERS CAN GO

BY US.

I ENJOY THESE THINGS.

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK FURTHER ABOUT IT.

THANK YOU, MR. BHIDE.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

11:22:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I'M HOPING IN THE FUTURE, MR. DINGFELDER

CAUGHT IT, WITH SOME OF THESE ITEMS LIKE THESE, UNDER

CONSENT AGENDA, AND THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING

ABOUT ALL THE TIME ABOUT THESE SCOOTERS.

I HAVE COMPLAINTS.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE CERTAIN TOPICS, BUZZ TOPIC, WHERE

COUNCIL IS SAYING PULL IT FROM THE ITEM AND TALK ABOUT.

I THINK THINGS LIKE THIS, AND THE CHIEF IS STAFF IS

LISTENING, CERTAIN THINGS UNDER STAFF REPORTS, AND WE




ACTUALLY LET COUNCIL KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON SO WE CAN REALLY

ADDRESS THE ISSUES.

BUT I AM APPRECIATIVE, YOU ALWAYS DO A GOOD JOB, SO I HAVE

TO GIVE YOU THAT PROP ALL THE TIME BECAUSE YOU DO WORK HARD

AND WE APPRECIATE YOU.

11:23:20 >>VIK BHIDE:
THANK YOU.

AND CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY, WE WILL BE HAPPY TO DO BRIEFINGS

WITH COUNCIL AS WE USUALLY AND OFTENTIMES DO.

WHEN THIS COMES UP WITH COUNCIL.

BUT REST ASSURED THE REPORT THAT WE HAVE SHARED WILL REFLECT

THAT WE REACHED OUT TO MORE THAN 1400 PEOPLE, USERS AND

NONUSERS, ACROSS INCOMES, ACROSS GENDERS, TO GET FEEDBACK

FROM THE ORIGINAL PILOT.

WHEN RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE, CONCERNS WERE CITED BY DR.

YANG'S REPORT, AND THAT WE PARTICIPATED WITH AT USF, AND A

LOT OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE INCORPORATED.

AND WE DID ALSO COORDINATE WITH PROVIDERS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT

THEIR BARRIERS WERE.

AND WE LEARNED A LOT, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THESE ONE ON

ONES.

11:24:12 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANKS SO MUCH.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE, SIR?

11:24:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES, I WILL GO AHEAD AND MOVE THE ITEM.

ITEM 40.

I THINK IT'S ALL BEEN SAID, AND IT SCARES ME A LITTLE BIT,




BUT JOE IS OUT THERE AND I KNOW WE ARE THE SAME AGE.

BUT BE CAREFUL, JOE.

11:24:30 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I SECOND COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER'S MOTION.

11:24:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AS LONG AS SCOOTER JOE IS HAPPY.

11:24:38 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IT'S EITHER A SCOOTER OR -- EITHER ONE.

11:24:44 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CITRO SECONDED IT.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

11:24:47 >>BILL CARLSON:
NO.

11:24:52 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:24:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

11:24:56 >>LUIS VIERA:
IN THE NAME OF SCOOTER JOE, I VOTE YES.

[ LAUGHTER ]

11:25:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES TO THE SIX MONTH EXTENSION.

11:25:05 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
FOR SCOOTER JOE, YES.

11:25:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES, FOR SCOOTER JOE.

11:25:13 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH CARLSON VOTING NO.

11:25:16 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. CHAIR, I HOPE I BROUGHT A LITTLE BIT OF

FUN.

11:25:22 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SCOOTER JOE, YES.

CHIEF, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY FOR ITEMS 32 THROUGH 34?

11:25:28 >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST 3 AND 34.

3 AND 34.

I JUST WAS REMINDED OF IT.

11:25:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M SORRY?

OH, MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. WIGGINTON IS ON THE LINE.




11:25:54 >>BILL CARLSON:
I KNOW WE ARE TRYING TO GET OUT OF HERE ON

TIME THIS MORNING BUT CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT IS --

11:26:03 >> I'M SORRY?

11:26:04 >>BILL CARLSON:
NUMBER 33 AND 34.

11:26:07 >> RON WIGGINTON, LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

THE RATES THAT WE CHARGE IS DETERMINED BY THE FLORIDA

ADMINISTRATIVE CODE SECTION 18-21 WHICH IS THE GREATER OF

$541 FOR THE BASE RATE MULTIPLIED BY SQUARE FOOTAGE.

11:26:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THAT'S STATUTORY.

THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD -- -- THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD WAS

THE QUESTION THAT WAS RAISED BY MRS. STROHMEYER ALSO IN HER

MEMO, WHICH IS KIND OF INTERESTING, BUT WHERE DOES THAT

MONEY GO?

SHE SAID IT'S AN INDICATION IT STAYS IN THE PARKS

DEPARTMENT.

SHE WAS HOPING THAT IT WOULD STAY SOUTH OF GANDY, SINCE THE

IMPACT, I GUESS, IS IN THAT SOUTH OF GANDY AREA.

SO IS IT LIMITED IN TERMS OF HOW CAN IT BE SPENT AND WHERE

IT WOULD BE SPENT?

11:26:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
IS THAT FOR ITEM NUMBER 33?

11:27:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
33, 34.

11:27:07 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
WELL, 33 IS THE DOCK BEHIND THE MANOR AT

RIVERWALK SO THAT IS NOT SOUTH OF GANDY.

I'M CONFUSED BY THAT QUESTION A BIT.

11:27:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
33 SAYS LOCATED AT THE EAST AND OF GANDY




BRIDGE IN THE TITLE.

THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS ON OUR AGENDA.

SO MAYBE THAT'S PART OF THE CONFUSION.

11:27:30 >> I APOLOGIZE, IT WAS FOR ITEM NUMBER 34.

11:27:42 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
TRY IT AGAIN, RON.

11:27:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
WHERE RON INDICATED IT WAS BY THE FLORIDA

ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, THAT INFORMATION I AM PROVIDING IS IN

RELATION TO NUMBER 34.

WHICH IS THE 202 SOUTH PARKER, WHICH IS THE DOCK THAT IS

LOCATED BEHIND THE MANOR ON RIVERWALK.

11:28:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MONEY THAT COMES

INTO THE CITY?

11:28:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
I BELIEVE IT IS A LEASE PAYMENT AND GOES

INTO THE GENERAL FUND.

11:28:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY.

FAIR ENOUGH.

AND IS THERE MONEY ASSOCIATED WITH 33?

11:28:34 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
33 WAS A LEASE AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY HAD

WITH THE -- DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE CROSSTOWN

EXTENSION, AND IT WAS FOR A LAYDOWN AREA THAT WAS UTILIZED

DURING THAT CONSTRUCTION, AND NOW THAT LEASE HAS BEEN

COMPLETED, AND THERE WAS A LINE ITEM IN THAT LEASE FOR

IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE TO BE MADE, AND IT IS A FISCAL AMOUNT

$2 MILLION THAT IS BEING PAID TO THE CITY FOR THOSE

IMPROVEMENTS.




11:29:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND ARE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS LOCATED ALONG

THAT GANDY CORRIDOR, OR ARE THEY JUST RANDOMLY AROUND THE

CITY?

11:29:22 >>ABBYE FEELEY:
THAT IS MONEY THAT IS GOING TO GO TO PARKS

AND RECREATION, AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IMPROVEMENT WITH

BOTH OF THOSE FUNDS HAVE BEEN PLANNED YET.

11:29:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY.

11:29:36 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CARLSON, ANYTHING ELSE, SIR?

11:29:40 >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST TO CLARIFY ON NUMBER 34, WITH THAT

FORMULA THAT'S REQUIRED BY THE STATE, THAT IS ESSENTIALLY

MARKET RATE.

I CORRECT?

OR AT LEAST AS DICTATED BY LAW?

11:29:49 >> IT IS DICTATED BY LAW, YES, SIR.

AS FAR AS COMPARISON MARKET RATE, I BELIEVE IT'S LESS THAN

THAT.

11:29:58 >>BILL CARLSON:
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO BECAUSE

OF THE LAW.

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

11:30:04 >> YES, SIR.

11:30:05 >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.

11:30:08 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
[OFF MICROPHONE] ALL RIGHT.

11:30:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WHICH NUMBERS ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

ONE OR BOTH?

11:30:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
BOTH.




11:30:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

33 AND 34.

11:30:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
33 AND 34.

MR. VIERA HAS MOVED IT.

MR. MANISCALCO SECONDED IT.

ROLL CALL.

MR. DINGFELDER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

11:30:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU.

MR. BENNETT, AS LONG AS YOU ARE HERE, SO ITEM 34, WE GET

EDUCATED EVERY MINUTE WE SIT HERE.

CONSTITUENT ASKED AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

THE MONEY THAT'S BEING GENERATED ITEM 34 SIGNIFICANT MONEY,

$2 MILLION INTO THE PARKS DEPARTMENT GENERALLY, CONSTITUENT

SUGGESTED THAT PERHAPS BECAUSE THE IMPACTS WERE IN THE GANDY

SOUTH OF GANDY AREA, THAT PARKS DEPARTMENT WOULD LIMIT OR

RESTRICT OR WHAT HAVE YOU THAT MONEY TO STAY IN THAT AREA.

I'M NOT GOING TO HOLD UP THESE TWO ITEMS TO MOVE FORWARD,

BUT MAYBE AT SOME FUTURE DATE COME BACK TO US AND GIVE US

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

11:31:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOVED BY VIERA, SECONDED BY MANISCALCO.

ROLL CALL.

11:31:27 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

11:31:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.




11:31:30 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

11:31:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

11:31:33 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

11:31:35 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

11:31:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

11:31:37 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

11:31:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE GO TO STAFF REPORTS.

ITEM NUMBER 50, ADMINISTRATIVE UPDATES?

CHIEF, WE DO HAVE A LITTLE TIME.

WE SAID 1:30.

DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED?

11:31:55 >>JOHN BENNETT:
I BELIEVE STAFF IS READY TO MAKE SURE THAT

COUNCIL CAN KEEP MOVING.

QUICK INTRODUCTION.

FIRST THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO ACCOMMODATE THAT

OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE COUNCIL ON SOME PROGRESS.

INTERESTING ENOUGH THAT TODAY, BECAUSE OF THE MIDYEAR

UPDATE, THERE ARE TWO ITEMS THAT COUNCIL, AND I REMEMBER

THOSE DURING THE PASSAGE OF THE BUDGET FOR FY 21, THAT

COUNCIL BROUGHT FORWARD, AND I JUST THINK THAT IT'S

IMPORTANT THAT STAFF GIVES YOU AN UPDATE ON THAT TODAY.

ONE DISCUSSED THE -- AS A MATTER OF FACT, CHAIRMAN GUDES, I

THINK THIS WAS YOUR ITEM IN THE BUDGET, WAS THE NOTION OF

EXPLORING THE CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER.

AND WE HAVE TODAY OCEA WYNN TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE.




AND WE HAD ASKED COUNCIL TO BE PATIENT AND LOOK AT THE

PROGRAMMATIC SIDE OF THAT, AND WE SPOKE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT

RECRUITING THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO

WORK IN THE CITY.

WE HAVE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE OUR

TRAINING, AWARENESS AS IT RELATES TO THE EQUALITY OR EQUITY

AND DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION, AND A LOT OF US JUST WENT

THROUGH THE USF PROGRAM WHICH IS SEVEN MODULES AND GRADUATED

FROM THAT, SO A SPECIAL SHOUTOUT TO USF FOR HOSTING THAT

PROGRAM.

THEN LASTLY WAS ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND TODAY WE HAVE MS. OCEA WYNN, AND SHE'S SUPPORTED BY

KELLY AUSTIN AND CHRISTINE GLOVER TO GIVE YOU A PROGRESS

REPORT ON THAT.

WHEN THEY ARE DONE, I HAVE ASSISTANT CHIEF LEE BERCAW ON THE

LINE AND HE'S GOING TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE OF WHAT COUNCIL

HAD ASKED AND I SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER

BRINGING UP THE MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM, AND WORKED VERY HARD

FOR THE PAST SIX MONTHS, AND CONGRATS TO CHIEF DUGAN IN

WORKING WITH MR. ROGERO'S OFFICE AND TO THE MAYOR FOR

BRINGING THAT FORWARD.

SO WE'LL HAVE TWO BRIEF PRESENTATIONS FOR ADMINISTRATIVE

UPDATE.

I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MS. WYNN.

11:33:48 >>OCEA WYNN:
ADMINISTRATOR OF NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY AS




WELL AS THE CITY OF TAMPA'S DIVERSITY OVERSIGHT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY VIDEO TODAY BUT I HOPE

THAT EACH OF YOU CAN HEAR ME CLEARLY.

AS THE CHIEF OF STAFF HAS MENTIONED, CHIEF BENNETT HAS

MENTIONED, WE ARE HERE TODAY TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE FOR OUR

MIDYEAR REVIEW ON THE STATUS OF THE CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER

AND THE PROGRAM.

WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT BEFORE US SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, IN

COLLABORATION WITH CELEBRATING WHAT WILL ACHIEVE DIVERSITY

PROGRAM LOOK LIKE, AS CHIEF BENNETT HAS MENTIONED, WE WERE

CONSIDERING BOTH THE PROGRAMMATIC FUNCTIONS THAT WILL LAY

THE FRAMEWORK OF THE PROGRAM VERSUS FTEs RIGHT ON THE

SPOT.

WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDER WHERE THOSE CHALLENGES

LIE, AND THEN THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE TO OVERCOME

THEM.

IN LOOKING AT THE PROGRAMMATIC AREAS, I HAVE SEVERAL OF MY

COLLEAGUES ON BOARD, READY TO PROVIDE UPDATES, BOTH KELLY

AUSTIN, WHO WILL PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON WHAT WE HAVE DONE FOR

AS WELL AS FOR TRAINING AS WELL AS FOR WITH CHRISTINE GLOVER

WHO WILL PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WITH SOME

EXCITING NEWS THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE THE NEEDLE IN THAT AREA.

SO AT THIS POINT I WILL ASK KELLY AUSTIN TO WEIGH IN AND TO

PROVIDE HER UPDATES, AND WE WILL PROCEED FROM THERE.

11:35:45 >>KELLY AUSTIN:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.




KELLY AUSTIN, HUMAN RESOURCES.

IN JUST A MOMENT I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO OUR TALENT

ACQUISITION COORDINATOR RUGINA CASTILLO TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF

OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET ACCOMPLISHED, IN

HER FIRST 90 DAYS OF TENURE AS A CITY OF TAMPA EMPLOYEE.

I AM VERY PROUD OF RUGINA'S APPROACH TO ALIGNING OUR FOUR

GOALS THAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED TO GO ALONG WITH MAYOR

CASTOR'S T-3 INITIATIVE.

WE STARTED THIS FOUNDATION BASED ON THE DATA THAT QUEUED

AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR EEOP REPORTING, AND TRIED TO BUILD

FROM THERE.

AFTER RUGINA PROVIDES HER UPDATE THEN I WILL GIVE YOU AN

UPDATE ON THE RFP BIAS, BUT FOR NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT

OVER TO OUR TALENT ACQUISITION MS. RUGINA CASTILLO.

IF YOU WILL UNMUTE AND SHARE YOUR WONDERFUL ACCOMPLISHMENTS

WITH COUNCIL THIS MORNING, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

11:36:55 >> GOOD MORNING.

CAN YOU HEAR ME?

11:37:00 >> YES.

11:37:02 >> HELLO?

11:37:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU.

11:37:04 >> OKAY.

GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEN.

AS MRS. AUSTIN STATED, WE ARE CURRENTLY USING AN EEOP AS A

GUIDE TO HELP INCREASE DIVERSITY RECRUITMENT WHICH ALIGNS




WITH THE MAYOR'S T-3 INITIATIVE, AND WE OUTLINED FOUR GOALS

TO HELP US MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS.

THE FIRST GOAL WAS BUILDING A RELATIONSHIP AND ORGANIZATION

OF DEVELOPMENT TO INCREASE OUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE CITY, AND

MORE ABOUT THE MAYOR'S T-3 INITIATIVE AND HOW OUR OFFICE

COULD SUPPORT THOSE INITIATIVES.

WE REVIEWED ADDITIONAL DEPARTMENT DATA AS WELL AS COMMUNITY

DATA TO BET ARE UNDERSTAND HOW THE CITY DOES BUSINESS, TO

INTERVIEW, OBSERVATIONS, VISITING WITH THE INTERNAL CITY

EMPLOYEES AS WELL AS DEPARTMENTS, LOCAL BUSINESSES, THE

COMMUNITY RESIDENT AND GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS.

WE ALSO HAD OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE POLICIES AND THE

PROCEDURES, THE CURRENT PRACTICES, SERVICE RULES, AND THE

CITY CHARTER, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, MEETING WITH INTERNAL

AND EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS.

OUR SECOND GOAL WAS DIVERSITY IN MARKETING.

WE WANTED TO EXPAND OUR INTERNAL JOB SEARCH BY REVIEWING AND

UPDATED CURRENT PROCESSES AND ADVERTISING RESOURCES TO

IMPROVE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, AND REACH

UNDERUTILIZED APPLICANT GROUPS, WE DID THAT BY COLLABORATING

WITH INTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS, OUR COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT,

TO INCREASE OUR EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, OUR SOCIAL MEDIA

WHICH INCLUDED FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

WE ARE ALSO DOING SOME THINGS WITH OUR INTERNAL EMPLOYEES IN

RELATION TO OUR FAMILY AND FRIEND REFERRAL PROGRAM, WORKING




WITH OUR ADA DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS

HONOR MAKE SURE THAT THEY SHARE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WITH

EMPLOYEES.

WE ARE COLLABORATING WITH LOCAL GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS

SUCH AS TOBA, NAACP, THE PASTOR ALLIANCES, URBAN LEAGUE,

HISPANIC AND HAITIAN AMERICAN, AS WELL AS ASIAN PACIFIC

ISLANDERS, CHAMBER OF COMMERCES, THE WOUNDED WARRIOR

PROGRAM, MacDILL AIR FORCE MILITARY TRANSITION PROGRAM,

OPERATION UNIFORM, THE VETERANS, THE WOMEN'S ORGANIZATION,

AS WELL AS LGBTQ CLUB ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHER LOCAL

BUSINESSES WITHIN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

WE ARE ALSO COLLABORATING WITH HCCU AND OTHER CLINICS THAT

HAVE A MINORITY POPULATION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN AND HISPANIC,

PARTNER WITH THE FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES AND OTHER

MUNICIPALITIES TO SEE HOW THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING THEIR

BUSINESSES, AND WE ARE ATTENDING VARIOUS COMMUNITY, AS WELL

AS STATE CONFERENCES, CHAIN TRAINING WORKSHOPS, TO HELP US

UNDERSTAND THE CANDIDATES THAT WE ARE RECRUITING SUCH AS

PSYCHOLOGICAL SAFETY, RECRUITING IN A PANDEMIC, MENTAL

HEALTH FIRST AID, AS WELL AS THE AGING WORKFORCE.

GOAL NUMBER 3 WAS COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND PARTNERSHIP.

WE ARE LOOKING AT INCREASING VISIBILITY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY

AND ESTABLISHED PARTNERSHIPS IN ORDER TO INCREASE OUR

DIVERSE APPLICANT POOL WHICH CONSISTS OF PARTNERING WITH

CAREER SOURCE TAMPA BAY, WITH THEIR SUMMER JOB CONNECTION,




AS WELL AS THEIR YEAR-ROUND PROGRAM THAT IS A PAID WORK

EXPERIENCE.

THERE ARE THING TANK SESSIONS.

WE ARE ALSO PARTNERING WITH THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SCHOOL

DISTRICT, ETE PROGRAM, TO PARTICIPATE IN INFORMATION

SESSIONS, CAREER FAIRS, WE ARE ALSO DOING IT WITH OPERATION

UNIFORM, WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT AS WELL AS USF.

WE ARE PARTICIPATING IN LOCAL EVENTS THROUGH NETWORKS SUCH

AS BLACK HISTORY PROGRAMS, HAITIAN FLAG DAY, THE

ASIAN-AMERICAN CONVERSATION, TAMPA BAY WOMEN'S EXPO, LGBTGLQ

PLUS WORKSHOP AND MONTHLY ADA ALLIANCE MEETINGS.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST, GOAL NUMBER 4 IS OUR TALENT MANAGEMENT,

HOW WE PLAN TO INCREASE OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH LOCAL

BUSINESSES TO WORKFORCE NEEDS AND DEVELOP ADDITIONAL ENTRY

LEVEL OPPORTUNITIES.

WE HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH OUR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR

TO DETERMINE OUR ORGANIZATIONAL NEEDS.

RESEARCHING APPRENTICESHIPS, MENTORING INTERNSHIP AND

VOLUNTEER PROGRAMS WITH THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SCHOOL

DISTRICT CTA PROGRAM, THE LOCAL COLLEGES, SO THAT WE CAN

WORK WITH OUR FIRE RESCUE, OUR SOLID WASTE, AND PARKS AND

RECREATION DEPARTMENT.

AND LAST BUT LOT LEAST IN THIS AREA IS LOOKING AT FINDING

PROGRAMS THAT WILL HELP US INCREASE OUR FEMALE POPULATION IN

NONTRADITIONAL FIELDS LIKE CONSTRUCTION, SOLID WASTE,




WASTEWATER, WATER, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FIRE

DEPARTMENT, OUR FLEET MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT, AND I.T.

THANK YOU.

11:42:51 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.

11:42:56 >> THANK YOU, RUGINA AND COUNCIL.

I'M SURE YOU CAN HEAR THE COMPASSION RUGINA HAS AND WE ARE

APPRECIATE APPRECIATIVE OF THAT.

I ALSO WANT TO UPDATE COUNCIL ON HOW WE ARE DOING WITH OUR

DIVERSITY AND IMPLICIT BIAS AWARENESS TRAINING.

AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ENDEAVORED ON EXPANDING THE TRAINING

THAT THE CITY CONDUCTS, AND THAT HAS BEEN A LABOR OF LOVE.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ESSENTIALLY HUNTER, CARL BRODY FROM THE

CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, I WANT TO THANK THE CITY ATTORNEY'S

OFFICE FOR THEIR HELP.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING VERY CLOSELY WERE GREG SPEARMAN'S

ORGANIZATION SO THANK YOU.

IN ANTICIPATION OF PREPARATION OF THE IMPLICIT BIAS RFP THAT

IS SET TO GO OUT, WE CONDUCTED A LISTENING SESSION WITH SOME

COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS BACK IN MARCH, AND CHIEF OF STAFF,

MYSELF, MS. WYNN, CARL BRODY, KAY HUNTER AND LIDA, ATTENDED

THAT SESSION TO HEAR FROM DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS IN THE

COMMUNITY ON WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS WERE ON WHAT WE WERE TRYING

TO CRAFT.

WE GOT GREAT SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACK FOR PROGRAM CONTENT,

AND BUILT THAT INTO OUR RFP.




I AM VERY EXCITED TO SAY THAT OUR RFP OPENED ON JUNE

9th, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING SOME GREAT

PROPOSERS, AND BEING ABLE TO EVALUATE AND SECURE AN

OUTSTANDING TRAINING PROGRAM THAT THE CITY CAN THEN MOVE

FORWARD WITH.

I WILL NOW TURN IT OVER TO MS. CHRISTINE GLOVER.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL.

11:44:41 >>CHRISTINE GLOVER:
DIRECTOR OF THE CITY'S INTERNAL AUDIT

DEPARTMENT.

I WANTED TO GO OVER THE BROAD TIMELINE AND HOW IT CURRENTLY

WORKS.

CURRENTLY THIS IS AN INTERNAL OPEN HOTLINE AND WE HAVE A

NUMBER POSTED THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

EACH AUDIT THAT WE DO, WE DO A QUESTIONNAIRE, AND THAT

INCLUDES KNOWLEDGE OF THE OUTLINE AND PROVIDE INFORMATION

FOR POSTING IF MANAGEMENT IS UNAWARE.

WE CURRENTLY -- EMPLOYEES THAT CALL INTO THAT NUMBER AND

REMAIN ANONYMOUS, AND THEN THEY CAN CHECK BACK TO DETERMINE

THE STATUS OF THEIR CONCERN.

AND IF WE NEED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, WE CAN LEAVE MESSAGES

WITH THE VENDOR.

SO THEY SEND AN E-MAIL TO INTERNAL AUDIT.

WE MAY DETERMINE HOW I SHALL ISSUE SHOULD BE HANDLED AND WE

MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CHIEF OF STAFF.

IT MAY BE HR ISSUE, OR SOMETHING THAT WE REFER BACK TO




MANAGEMENT, OR MAY BE A FRAUD THAT WE SHOULD INVESTIGATOR

SOMETHING CRIMINAL WE MAY REFER TO TPD, BUT WE SEND IT TO

THE CHIEF OF STAFF, AND THEN WE FOLLOW WITH THE RESOLUTION,

WE HAVE TO LEAVE A MESSAGE WITH THE VENDOR HOW.

HEAR THE PLAN IS TO GO WHEREVER JUST A FRAUD HOTLINE TO --

HOT LANE AND WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS UPDATE OUR MATRIX

AT THAT POINT.

BUT ANY DISPARITY ISSUE, A TASK FORCE WAS PUT IN PLACE, BE

PUT IN PLACE, AND ANY ISSUES OR CONCERNS WOULD BE REFERRED

TO THAT TASK FORCE.

AND THAT TASK FORCE WOULD INCLUDE CHIEF OF STAFF, HR, MS.

WYNN, INTERNAL AUDIT AND A LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE.

THE PROCESS WOULD STILL THE SAME WHERE CALLS CAN COME IN,

AND THE INDIVIDUAL CAN REMAIN ANONYMOUS.

WE HAVE RECEIVED PERIODIC UPDATES AND THE FINAL STATUS OF

RESOLUTION OF THAT ITEM.

THAT COMPLETES MY REPORT.

11:47:13 >> SO A COUPLE OF FINAL THINGS, COMMENTS, COUNCIL.

THE WAY THAT WE ARE PLANNING ON SOCIALIZING IS THROUGHOUT

THE ORGANIZATION IS THAT WE ARE ENTERTAINING CREATING A

VIDEO, A VIDEO THAT EXPLAINS WHAT DISPARITIES ARE, WHAT

CONSTITUTES THE LACK OF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION, AND THE

VIDEO WILL ALSO HIGHLIGHT THE HOTLINE AND THE AVAILABILITY

OF THE HOTLINE, NOT ONLY FOR FRAUD BUT FOR DISPARITY.

AND THEN ONE FINAL COMMENT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS I




THINK IT'S FITTING THAT TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS AND

BRIEFING YOU ON THE CITY'S FIRST INAUGURAL ASIAN-AMERICAN

AND PACIFIC ISLANDER CELEBRATION THAT WILL BE HELD THIS

EVENING FROM 4 TO 5 P.M. IN THE COURTYARD BETWEEN CITY HALL

AND OLD CITY HALL.

SO IF YOU ARE AVAILABLE, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU WILL ATTEND

AND PARTICIPATE IN THIS EVENT AS WE CELEBRATE THE INCLUSION

OF ALL NOT ONLY CITY EMPLOYEES BUT EMPLOYEES WITHIN THE CITY

OF TAMPA.

THAT END OUR REPORT.

WE ARE READY TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS.

11:48:37 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY QUESTIONS?

I KNOW I HAVE A BUNCH OF THEM.

ANYONE ELSE?

11:48:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
LEAD THE WAY.

11:48:45 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT

WAS GIVEN.

AND IT WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION.

I AM JUST CURIOUS WHY WE ARE DOING ALL THIS WORK, THOUGH.

BECAUSE WHEN I HEAR EMPLOYEES TALK, I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW

MANY PEOPLE IN THE CITY, EMPLOYEES, AND I KNOW WE HAVE A

CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER.

EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER.

I TALKED TO CHIEF OF STAFF OVER LUNCH.

I AM JUST GOING TO BE FRANK WITH THAT.




COMMUNICATING THAT.

ALSO, WHAT MECHANISM FOR EMPLOYEES TO MAKE COMPLAINTS?

I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

WHAT I INITIALLY ENVISIONED THAT PERSON ANSWERS TO THE

MAYOR, NOT TO HR, BUT TO HAVE A WAY THAT EMPLOYEES OR EVEN

OUTSIDE CONSTITUENTS COULD BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE

CITY OF TAMPA TO UNDERSTAND WHERE OUR DISPARITIES ARE AND

EMPLOYEE ISSUES.

I DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THAT IN THE PRESENTATION.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD ENVISION TAKES CHIEF DIVERSITY

OFFICER.

A PERSON WHO WOULD UNDERSTAND AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE CULTURAL

DIVERSITY THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

MR. CARLSON TALKED ABOUT -- THE CHARTER REVIEW TALKED ABOUT

IT AND WE ARE JUST PUTTING AN RFP OUT IN JUNE.

I THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

I KNOW WE ARE BUSY BUT CERTAIN THINGS WE HAVE TO MUTT TO THE

FOREFRONT.

AND HOW I ENVISION A CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER IS NOT WORKING

AS I THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE.

I KNOW WE ARE TRYING TO DO A BROAD SPECTRUM ON ALL THESE

IDEAS AND I THINK SOME ARE VERY GOOD BUT I THINK THE NUTS

AND BOLTS, WE HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANISM THAT EMPLOYEES AND

CITIZENS CAN MAKE CONCERNS AND COMPLAINTS SO THEY CAN BE




LOOKED AT ON A NONBIAS EFFORT VERSUS SOME EMPLOYEES CAN GO

TELL A SUPERVISION OR AND THEY ARE NOT OSTRACIZED OR

BLACKBALLED.

I AM JUST GOING TO BE FRANK WITH THAT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PERSON WHO IS AWAY FROM EVERYONE ELSE TO

BE ABLE TO HAVE UNBIASED VIEW OF WHAT'S GOING ON AND BE ABLE

TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE CHIEF OF STAFF AND THE MAYOR THAT

THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM.

I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY CALLS, I GUESS BECAUSE I AM THE

AFRICAN AMERICAN ON THE COUNCIL, BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT

SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING, AND WHEN I GET COMPLAINTS FROM

DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS HAVE ISSUES

GOING ON RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE AFRAID TO COME FORWARD.

I AM-A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, EMPLOYEES CAME UP TO ME.

THAT WAS THE POINT OF CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER.

THEY CAN'T JUST GO TO HR AND FILE A COMPLAINT.

AS A CITY EMPLOYEE, I KNOW THAT.

NOBODY CAN TELL ME ANY DIFFERENT.

YOU CAN'T JUST GO TO HR.

I HAD A SITUATION PEOPLE CALLED ME ABOUT, ONE OF THE

INVESTIGATORS, THE WAY THEY INTERROGATE AND INTERVIEW,

THAT'S INTIMIDATING.

SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED, BECAUSE I KNOW FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PARTY THAT CAN LISTEN AND AGAIN FOLKS

GET BLACKBALLED OR PUT TO THE SIDE.




SO I APPRECIATE THE RECORD BUT IT REALLY WASN'T WHAT I WAS

LOOKING FOR AS A PACKAGE.

WE ARE JUST MISSING THAT PORTION.

I TOLD THE CHIEF OF STAFF, I THOUGHT MRS. OCEA WYNN WHEN THE

JOB WAS FIRST GIVEN I THOUGHT IT WAS TOO MUCH.

SHE HAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT SHE'S GOT TO RUN.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT SHE WILL BE ABLE TO DO A JOB THAT

NEEDS TO BE DONE BECAUSE SHE'S GOT TOO MUCH OTHER WORK TO

DO.

SO I YIELD BACK, AND I JUST THINK THAT THE WAY I ENVISION

THE CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER IS JUST NOT WORK WORKING IN MY

OPINION.

MR. CARLSON, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

11:52:48 >>BILL CARLSON:
I GET A LOT OF CALLS, TOO.

MOST OF THEM FROM INTERMEDIARIES WHO SAY THEY HAVE JUST

SPOKEN TO EMPLOYEES AND EMPLOYEES ARE FREE TO CALL BECAUSE

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED.

OR THEY ARE AFRAID THAT I WILL HAVE TO REPORT THEM TO HR.

BUT JUST TO PUT THIS OUT THERE, THE CONCERNS I HEAR ARE NOT

ABOUT THIS ADMINISTRATION.

I THINK PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO

CHANGE IT AND ALL THOSE THINGS YOU LISTED ARE AN EXAMPLE OF

ALL THE CHANGES THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE.

BUT ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS THEY MADE TO ME FROM THE

COMMUNITY IS HAVING AN EXTERNAL PARTY HOTLINE THAT'S NOT AN




INTERNAL TO PROTECT THE IDENTITY OF FOLKS.

BECAUSE I KNOW CHIEF OF STAFF, MAYOR, OTHERS WANT TO HEAR

PEOPLE'S HONEST OPINIONS, BUT IF PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO SPEAK

UP THEY CAN'T GIVE THAT.

SO WHATEVER MEANS WE CAN USE TO MAKE SURE WE ARE HEARING

EVERYTHING WOULD BE GREAT BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYBODY WANTS TO

FIX THE PROBLEM.

THANK YOU.

11:53:45 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANYONE ELSE?

WELL, AGAIN, CHIEF, THANK YOU FOR THE REPORT.

WE STILL HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO DO, I BELIEVE.

HOPEFULLY WITH THE NEXT REPORT WE CAN KICK THE BALL DOWN THE

FIELD A LITTLE BIT MORE, AND IF NOT NEED TO PUT THINGS ON

THE TABLE TO MAKE SURE WE GET WHAT WE NEED FOR THE EMPLOYEES

AND FOR THE CITIZENS.

AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE REPORT, AND WE HAVE A LITTLE MORE

WORK TO DO.

WITH THAT I GUESS WE CAN MOVE ON.

11:54:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MR. BERCAW TO TALK TO US ABOUT MENTAL

HEALTH?

11:54:28 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CHIEF BERCAW.

11:54:30 >>CHIEF BERCAW:
I'M HERE TO GIVE YOU ALL AN UPDATE ON

THE -- PROGRAM.

I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU A QUICK OVERVIEW AND THEN INTRODUCE

GAIL RYDER.




AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ARE NOT EXPERTS IN

MENTAL HEALTH SO WE REACHED OUT TO THE MENTAL HEALTH

COMMUNITY TO HELP BUILD THIS PILOT PROGRAM.

MS. GAIL RYDER, SHE GETS TO BE THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR HEALTH

CARE, AND COME UP WITH A PILOT PROGRAM.

I HAVE GAIL ON THE LINE.

GO AHEAD AND SPEAK TO YOU HOW YOU HAVE ASSISTED US.

11:55:10 >> HELLO EVERYONE.

CAN YOU HEAR ME, CHIEF?

BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE MY CAMERA ON.

OKAY, THAT'S GREAT.

HI.

GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.

THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME HERE.

I'M GAIL RYDER, THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR HEALTH FOR THE

BAYCARE HEALTH SYSTEM.

IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT

ISSUED AN RFP ASKING THE MENTAL HEALTH COMMUNITY AND

SUBSTANCE ABUSE COMMUNITY TO RESPOND TO A REQUEST THEY HAVE

TO THINK THROUGH WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO BRING A MENTAL

HEALTH UNIT WITHIN THE TPD.

WE ALL DISCUSSED THAT.

THERE ARE SEVERAL VERY LARGE PROVIDERS IN TAMPA BAY.

WE ARE LUCKY HERE IN TAMPA TO HAVE TWO VERY LARGE PROVIDERS

THAT IS DOCO AND HAX AND TWO LARGE MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDERS,




GRACE POINT AND NORTHSIDE.

AND OBVIOUSLY A VERY LARGE HEALTH SYSTEM THAT HAS A LOT OF

INVESTMENT WHICH IS BAYCARE.

SO WE WROTE A LETTER TO TAMPA POLICE THAT SAID I THINK THE

BEST WAY TO PROCEED IS TO BUILD A PROGRAM TOGETHER.

SO WE STARTED MEETING IN JANUARY.

AND WE PROPOSED, WE GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER MUCH BETTER THAN

WE DID BEFORE.

AS THE CHIEF SAID, THEY WERE NOT EXPERTS IN MENTAL HEALTH,

AND WE ARE NOT EXPERTS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SO WE SPENT SEVERAL WEEKS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER'S

LANGUAGE.

AND THEN WE CIRCLED THE WAGONS AROUND TWO VERY IMPORTANT

POINTS.

ONE, WHAT IS REALLY REQUIRED TO HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH

CLINICIAN RIDE-ALONG WITH OUR POLICE OFFICERS?

AND THEN THE SECOND CONVERSATION WAS IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO

CARE COORDINATION AND PROGRAMS.

SO AFTER A LOT OF CONVERSATION, IT WAS VERY OBVIOUS TO THE

TEAM THAT WE HAD A REAL BLIND SPOT, AND THAT BLIND SPOT WAS

NOT REALLY KNOWING WHETHER THE RIDE-ALONGS WITH ARE GOING TO

MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

SO WE DECIDED ON A PILOT PROJECT, AND WE TEAMED UP A

SUBSTANCE USE AND MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIAN, TWO TEAMS WITH A

RIDE-ALONG AND WE GOT THAT TOGETHER, AND OVERWHELMINGLY THE




CLINICIANS FELT THAT THE RIDE-ALONGS WITH ARE CRITICAL.

THE REASON WHY THE RIDE-ALONGS WERE CRITICAL IS THAT YOU

HAVE A RARE OPPORTUNITY, AND THE REASON WHY THE MENTAL

HEALTH COMMUNITY IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT DOING THIS IS WHEN

SOMEONE IS IN A SORT OF QUOTE-UNQUOTE CRISIS POSITION, OR

WHEN POLICE HAVE TO ATTEND TO THEM, THAT'S A RARE MOMENT OF

ENGAGEMENT.

THAT'S A RARE MOMENT TO MAKE A CONNECTION WITH THAT PERSON,

AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT THEY FOLLOW THROUGH WITH CARE.

SO WE MADE THE DECISION THAT PART OF THE NEW PROGRAM WAS

CLEARLY GOING TO HAVE A RIDE-ALONG COMPONENT.

THE NEXT PIECE WAS CARE COORDINATION.

THE NEXT THING THAT WORRIED THE PROVIDERS, THERE'S A

TREMENDOUS DEMAND ON THE MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE USE

SERVICES PROCESS.

BUT WHEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE MENTAL HEALTH

CLINICIAN IN THE FIELD IDENTIFIED SOMEONE, AND THEN MAKE

SURE THEY GET INTO CARE, THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE NEED TO BE

PRIORITIZE.

THEY CAN'T BE PUT ON A LIST, IF THEY CAN'T BE FOLLOWED UP

THE NEXT DAY, IT NEEDS TO BE IMMEDIATE.

SO THEN THE SECOND PART IS EACH OF THE ORGANIZATIONS WILL

HAVE A SPECIFIC CARE COORDINATOR TOTALLY DESIGNED AND

ASSIGNED TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SO THERE IS THE JOURNEY THAT WE TRAVERSED.




IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT, I THINK THE CONVERSATIONS WERE

VERY PURPOSEFUL.

I THINK THAT THIS IS A PILOT.

I THINK THAT IT WILL EVOLVE INTO WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE GOING

FORWARD, SO I THINK YOU CAN EXPECT CHANGES AS WE GO ALONG.

ALSO, WE PUT TOGETHER A RESOURCE GUIDE FOR OUR POLICE

OFFICERS.

THEY NOW HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE RESOURCES WITH ALL OF THOSE

ORGANIZATIONS.

I WILL SPEND A MINUTE DOING A SHOUTOUT TO USF AND TO THE

CRISIS CENTER WHO HELPED THE POLICE CIRCLE THE WAGONS AROUND

THIS IDEA AND BRING US ALL TOGETHER.

SO WITH THAT, I WILL INTRODUCE TO YOU THE TAMPA CRISIS

INTERVENTION RESPONSE TEAM.

THAT IS A COLLABORATIVE BETWEEN ALL THE MENTAL HEALTH

PROVIDERS AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND THERE YOU CAN SEE WHO WE INTEND TO BE.

SO AT THIS TIME, I THINK IT'S VERY EXCITING.

I THINK IT WAS EXCITING BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, BUT IT'S EVEN

MORE EXCITING NOW.

SO WE ARE EXCITED.

SO I WILL HAND IT BACK TO THE CHIEF, IF YOU WANT TO ADD

ANYTHING ELSE.

12:00:14 >>CHIEF BERCAW:
THANK YOU, MS. RAIDER.

COUNCIL, JUST FOR YOUR MORE DETAILED, OUR PILOT PROGRAM WILL




BE COMPRISED OF 13 INDIVIDUALS.

WE WILL HAVE ONE INTERNAL TPD EMPLOYEE WHICH WILL BE A

BEHAVIORAL HEALTH COORDINATOR, AND FOUR POLICE OFFICERS

ASSIGNED, AND THEN CONTRACTED THROUGH HAPS, FOUR FIELD

CLINICIANS AND FOUR COORDINATORS.

WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON A CONTRACT TO GET THIS PILOT

PROGRAM UP AND RUNNING.

SO THANK YOU.

12:00:46 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

12:00:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU, MS. RYDER, FOR YOUR

PARTICIPATION.

THANKS TO ALL THE AGENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, USF AND

THE CRISIS CENTER IN PARTICULAR.

AND THANK YOU, CHIEF DUGAN AND CHIEF BERCAW FOR YOUR

ENTHUSIASTIC RESPONSE IN THIS.

AND I MEAN THAT SINCERELY.

THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE, CHIEF, IS BUDGET.

WHAT KIND OF MONEY ARE WE BUDGETING, OR TENTATIVELY

BUDGETING FOR THIS PROGRAM?

AND AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE INTERIM PILOT PROGRAM?

AND ALSO WHEN DO WE EXPECT IT TO BE KICKED OFF, OBVIOUSLY,

YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO COME TO COUNCIL, I GUESS.

AND THEN FINALLY, YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT GRANTS.

DO WE HAVE ANY GRANT APPLICATIONS?

HOW ARE WE DOING ON GRANTS?




12:01:46 >> I'LL TAKE THE LAST QUESTION FIRST, GRANTS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH HAYES AND WE ARE IT'S GOING TO IMPACT

WHAT THE BUDGET WILL BE.

WE ARE ANTICIPATING ANYWHERE FROM 6 TO 800,000 DEPENDING ON

HOW THIS PILOT PROGRAM KICKS OFF.

WE ARE WORKING THROUGH THOSE DETAILS RIGHT NOW.

AS SOON AS WE HAVE A DRAFT CONTRACT APPROVED BY LEGAL, THEN

WE'LL GET A MORE DEPARTMENT.

12:02:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
TIMING IN TERMS OF ACTUAL KICKOFF?

12:02:21 >>CHIEF BERCAW:
AS SOON AS WE CAN GET THIS CONTRACT AGREED

AND HAX, HOPEFULLY SOMETIME THIS SUMMER.

AX IS ALREADY WORKING ON JOB DESCRIPTION AND GETTING READY

TO HAVE THEM.

SO WE ARE WORKING SIMULTANEOUSLY BEHIND IT.

12:02:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
FANTASTIC.

I AM VERY THRILLED WITH THE PROGRESS AND THANKS TO EVERYBODY

INVOLVED.

12:02:45 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANYONE ELSE?

CHIEF, ANYTHING ELSE?

IT'S COMING ON 12:00.

I KNOW WE HAVE HOT TOPICS.

12:02:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MAY I ASK?

12:03:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE HAVE TWO ITEMS.

WE HAVE THE BUDGET ISSUE, AND CHARTER REVIEW ISSUE.

12:03:11 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
COME BACK AT 1:00?




12:03:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IF YOU WANT TO BREAK FOR LUNCH.

CHIEF, I JUST THINK WE ARE GOING TO GET INTO IT AND I JUST

DON'T SEE US AT 12:30.

12:03:27 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
BREAK FOR LUNCH AND COME BACK AT 1:15.

12:03:31 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECOND.

12:03:33 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MANISCALCO, A MOTION FOR 1:15, MR.

CITRO, YOU ARE THE SECOND FOR 1:15?

12:03:43 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, SIR, AS LONG AS THE HEAT IS TURNED UP.

12:03:43 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL IN FAVOR?

[SOUNDING GAVEL]



[ CITY COUNCIL RECESS ]



01:16:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CITY COUNCIL IS BACK IN SESSION.

MADAM CLERK, ROLL CALL.

01:21:56 >>BILL CARLSON:
HERE.

01:21:58 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
HERE.

01:21:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
HERE.

01:22:00 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE.

01:22:01 >>LUIS VIERA:
HERE.

01:22:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HERE.

01:22:03 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HERE.

01:22:04 >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.

01:22:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 52.

01:22:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION?




01:22:18 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES, SIR.

01:22:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
UNLESS THE CITY ATTORNEY FEELS THAT IT'S

BEST TO DO ITEM 52 FIRST, I THINK ITEM 52 WILL IN SOME FORM

OR FASHION TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.

THAT IS ON YOUR ADDENDUM.

BUT I THINK SEPARATE ITEMS, TO TAKE THE ITEM ON THE ADDENDUM

AS IT'S LAID OUT FIRST, WHICH IS REFERRED TO IN ITEM 52 FROM

THE MEMORANDUM, FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

I THINK THAT WILL CLEAR UP THE OTHER ISSUE AFTER YOU DISCUSS

THE ITEMS THAT YOU ARE FACING AND ASKING FOR DECISION POINTS

FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY.

01:23:07 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CITY ATTORNEY?

01:23:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I DON'T KNOW WHICH ITEM WE ARE GETTING

TO.

01:23:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THE CRB ORDINANCE.

01:23:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OH, THE ORDINANCE ITSELF?

01:23:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WELL, THE TOPIC.

IT'S CERTAINLY THE ITEM --

01:23:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YEAH, LET'S DO IT.

01:23:27 >>BILL CARLSON:
THE WALK-ON AGENDA ITEM.

01:23:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES.

01:23:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
FINE.

IS YOUR MIKE ON, GINA?

01:23:49 >>BILL CARLSON:
I JUST HAD A LOT OF COMPLAINTS FROM THE

AGENDA.




PEOPLE STARTED CALLING ME AND ASKING WHERE IT WAS, WHY IT

WASN'T ON THE AGENDA AND WHERE THE INFORMATION WAS.

AND I THINK IT POPPED UP YESTERDAY SOMEWHERE.

01:24:03 >>GINA GRIMES:
IT WASN'T YESTERDAY, IT WAS MONDAY, AND THE

TWO STAKEHOLDERS THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FROM THE

OUTSET, THE ACLU AND THE PBA, THE ACLU E-MAILED MR. SHELBY

AND I TWO TIMES BEFORE THIS HEARING TO SAY IT'S COMING IN

FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL ON MAY 20th, AND WE HAVE CAN

WE HAVE A COPY OF IT?

01:24:25 >>BILL CARLSON:
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC

THAT ARE KEY STAKEHOLDERS.

I'M NOT CRITICIZING ANYBODY BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE HIDING

SOMETHING IF WE DON'T GET THE DRAFTS OUT EARLY ENOUGH.

01:24:36 >>GINA GRIMES:
LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR SPECIFIC ISSUE,

BECAUSE I KNOW I BRIEFED MANY OF YOU AND TOLD YOU THAT THIS

WOULD BE THE SIXTH TIME THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING THE TOPIC OF

THE CRB.

ACTUALLY, I WAS WRONG, IT'S THE SEVENTH TIME.

AND I AM GOING TO GO THROUGH THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, BECAUSE

IT'S BEEN A LONG YEAR, AND THE WAY THAT -- I THINK IT'S

IMPORTANT HOW THE DIFFERENT CHANGES EVOLVE.

SO IT FIRST STARTED ON JUNE 4th WHEN IT WAS ONE OF YOUR

FIRST MEETINGS DOWN AT THE CONVENTION CENTER, AND WE HAD

QUITE A FEW PEOPLE --

01:25:11 >> POINT OF ORDER.




01:25:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WE HAVE ALL BEEN HERE THROUGH ALL OF

THIS.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED A RECAP.

LET ME FINISH.

I HAVE A POINT OF ORDER, I HAVE THE FLOOR.

01:25:23 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

01:25:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WE HAVE ALL BEEN HERE THROUGH ALL OF

THIS.

I DON'T BELIEVE WE NEED A RECAP.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR

DIRECTING YOU AS OUR CITY ATTORNEY TO DRAFT THE ORDINANCE.

YOU PROVIDED THAT ORDINANCE.

OKAY.

I WOULD LOVE TO VOTE ON IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE NEED TO REHASH AND MAKE THIS GO EVEN

LONGER.

AND IF THERE'S A LEGAL REASON THAT WE NEED TO DO THAT, THEN

YOU ARE THE CITY ATTORNEY AND YOU NEED TO TELL US.

A LEGAL REASON.

01:25:58 >>GINA GRIMES:
OKAY.

I WILL.

I WILL.

01:25:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
PROCEED, MRS. GRIMES.

LET ME SAY THIS.

LET ME SAY THIS BEFORE WE GET INTO IT.




WE ALL WORK FOR THE PEOPLE.

THIS IS A TOUGH SUBJECT.

WE ALL MUST UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE HAVE TO LET OUR EMOTIONS AND DIFFERENCES GO TO THE SIDE

AND DEAL WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND.

SO MAKE SURE GOING FORWARD WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I AM

GOING TO TELL THE PUBLIC, I AM GOING TO TELL THE ACLU, TELL

THE UNION, THE ADMINISTRATION AND THIS COUNCIL, AT THE END

OF THE DAY TODAY, HOPEFULLY A DECISION WILL BE RENDERED.

IT MAY NOT BE PERFECT.

IT MAY NOT BENEFIT ONE GROUP.

IT MAY NOT BENEFIT ANOTHER GROUP.

IT MAY BE A COMPROMISE TO BOTH GROUPS.

BUT AT THE END DAY WE WORK FOR THE PEOPLE AND WE WILL DO SO

AND CONDUCT OURSELVES IN A MANNER THE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND AND

GET THE INFORMATION OUT TO EVERYONE.

SO WITH THAT, MS. GRIMES, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

01:26:54 >>GINA GRIMES:
THANK YOU.

SHALL I COMPLY WITH MR. DINGFELDER'S DIRECTIVE?

01:26:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU LATITUDE.

YOU ARE THE CITY ATTORNEY.

YOU MAKE THE DECISION.

01:27:04 >>GINA GRIMES:
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY MORE TIME THAN

NECESSARY.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SEQUENCE




AND SOME OF THE MOTIONS THAT WERE MADE EARLIER.

SO IN JUNE, YOU BASICALLY DIRECTED US ACTUALLY THIS

COUNCILMAN GUDES TO REVIEW THE HIRING PROCESS AND HAVE THE

CRB PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERVIEW PROCESS.

YOU ALSO ASKED US TO LOOK AT THE USE OF FORCE POLICY.

WE WERE SUPPOSED TO COME BACK ON JULY 16th AND REPORT

BACK TO YOU.

IN BETWEEN THAT TIME, IN ADDITION TO THOSE CHANGES, THE

MAYOR ALSO ASKED US TO PUT TOGETHER A CRB REFORM PROPOSAL.

WE ARE PREPARED TO BRING YOU THAT ON JULY 16th.

IF YOU RECALL THAT MEETING WAS CANCELED BECAUSE OF THE SPIKE

IN CORONAVIRUS.

SO THAT WAS DONE JULY 30th INSTEAD AND THAT WAS QUITE A

LENGTHY MEETING, AND EVEN THOUGH YOU CONSIDERED ALL THE

CHANGES YOU REQUESTED THAT WE MAKE AND ALL THE CHANGES THAT

WERE PROPOSED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, IN ADDITION TO THAT,

YOU MADE SEVERAL OTHER CHANGES.

FIRST OF WHICH WAS IMPORTANT, AND THAT'S WHEN THE CITY

COUNCIL MADE A MOTION THAT THE CITY COUNCIL BE ABLE TO

APPOINT THE MAJORITY, THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE

CRB.

YOU ALSO ASKED ME TO LOOK AT SUBPOENA POWER, INDEPENDENT

COUNSEL, INDEPENDENT STAFF, AND IF BOTH THOSE COULD NOT BE

ACCOMMODATED TO SUBMIT A MEMORANDUM OF LAW.

YOU ASKED THAT OUTSIDE LEADERS BE PUT ON THE CRB, COMMUNITY




LEADERS.

YOU ASKED FOR ANNUAL REPORTING.

YOU ASKED FOR COMMUNITY MEETINGS IN EACH OF THE DISTRICTS.

AT THE SEPTEMBER 24th WORKSHOP WHEN IT NEXT CAME BACK,

IF YOU RECALL IT WAS ABOUT A FIVE AND A HALF HOUR MEETING

THAT DAY, AND THE DRAFT INCLUDED THE FIVE FIVE ONE BOARD

APPOINTMENT PROPOSAL.

SO THAT WAS BACK IN SEPTEMBER.

IT WAS THE FIVE BY CITY COUNCIL, FIVE BY THE MAYOR, AND ONE

NAACP TO BE APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL.

WE HAD QUITE A LENGTHY AS I SAID WORKSHOP.

YOU HAD BOTH COMMENTS FROM THE PBA.

YOU HAD ALSO A LOT OF COMMENTS FROM THE ACLU.

AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING, AS I COMMITTED TO MR. CARLSON,

COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE ACLU, EXCHANGING INFORMATION WITH

THEM EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, GIVING THEM DRAFTS, LETTING THEM

KNOW WHEN THE HEARINGS WERE COMING UP.

THEY SUBMITTED A LETTER THAT HAD TEN DIFFERENT REQUESTS IN

IT AND THE PBA ALSO HAD SUBMITTED SOME REQUESTS FOR CHANGES.

YOU ASKED US TO COME BACK TO CONSIDER THE PBAS COMMENTS AND

THE ACLU'S COMMENTS AND TO COME BACK ON NOVEMBER 19th.

THAT DRAFT ON NOVEMBER 19th INCLUDED WHAT I WILL CALL

THE COMPROMISE INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE COUNSEL OPTION WHERE IF

THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST THAT'S DETERMINED BY CITY

OR STATE ETHICS LAWS OR THE FLORIDA BAR RECALLS, THAT THE




CITY AS DETERMINED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT I WOULD HAVE TO

HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO REPRESENT THE CRB WITH RESPECT TO

THAT MATTER ON WHICH THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

SO THAT WAS PRESENTED TO YOU BACK IN NOVEMBER.

AFTER ABOUT TWO HOURS OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND AGAIN A LOT OF

BRIEFINGS THAT OCCURRED BEFOREHAND, THERE WERE SOME CHANGES

THAT WERE MADE WITH RESPECT TO THE PBA HAD RAISED WITH

RESPECT TO THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT, AND MR.

DINGFELDER, WE COMMITTED TO YOU THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE IT SO

THAT WE COULD WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS THAT

YOU HAD AND TO MAKE ANY ADDITIONAL CHANGES.

SO IT WENT FROM NOVEMBER 19th TO FEBRUARY 25th.

ON FEBRUARY 25th, AFTER HAVING WORKED WITH THE PBA,

HOURS AND HOURS THAT URSULA AND I SPENT TO THE PHONE WITH

THE PBA, AND WITH THE ACLU, SAME THING, HOURS WITH THEIR

LAWYERS, WE HAD A PROPOSAL THAT I IN GOOD FAITH THOUGHT WAS

THE COMPROMISE PROPOSAL AND FULLY EXPECTED YOU ALL TO

APPROVE IT.

MAYBE I WAS NAIVE IN THINKING THAT.

THAT WHAT I WILL CALL THE COMPROMISE PROPOSAL FOR FEBRUARY,

ALSO IT CONTINUED ON.

THE PROVISION FOR A SEPARATE ATTORNEY, IF THERE WAS A FORMAL

CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

SO WHEN COUNCIL MADE THEIR MOTION IN FEBRUARY TO CHANGE THE

BOARD APPOINTMENTS TO THE 7-4 PROPOSAL, IT WAS REALLY AT




SOMEWHAT OF A REVERSAL OF WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO YOU IN TWO

OR THREE OF THE EARLIER DRAFTS, AND LIKEWISE ON YOUR MOTION

FOR A CHARTER AMENDMENT ON INDEPENDENT COUNSEL WAS ALSO

SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER RAISED OR BROUGHT UP IN THE

PREVIOUS TWO DRAFTS.

AND THERE WERE MANY, MANY, MANY MORE SMALLER EDITS THAT WERE

MADE IN BETWEEN THAT TIME.

AS YOU KNOW, MR. DINGFELDER, YOU GAVE YOU THE WORD DOCUMENT

AND YOU MADE MANY, MANY CHANGES YOURSELF.

AND THE ADMINISTRATION COMPROMISED ON NEARLY EVERY SINGLE

CHANGE, WHAT IT CAME DOWN TO THERE WERE THREE CHANGES ON

WHICH THEY WERE NOT WILLING TO COMPROMISE, AND THAT WAS ON

THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, AND ON THE SUBPOENA POWER, AND ON

THE BOARD APPOINTMENTS.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY, YOU ASKED ME TO BRING

IT BACK TO YOU TODAY AS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE, I HAD AN

OBLIGATION TO BRING BACK TO YOU THE ORDINANCE AS YOU

REQUESTED, THAT IT BE AMENDED, AND IN THESE BRIEFINGS, WE

ADVISED YOU THAT THE ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS

PROPOSAL, AND THAT GETS TO THE POINT THAT THERE'S A LEGAL

ISSUE THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, THAT I WILL ADDRESS AT

THE END OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S PRESENTATION.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO CLARIFY THIS PROCEDURAL ISSUE BECAUSE I

KNOW IT'S CREATED A LOT OF CONFUSION.

THERE'S TWO DOCUMENTS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.




ONE IS THE ORDINANCE.

IT'S VERY SHORT, HAS SOME RECITAL CLAUSES, WAS GIVEN TO YOU

BACK IN NOVEMBER.

THEN THERE'S AN EXHIBIT TO THE ORDINANCE, WHICH CONTAINS THE

CODE SECTION.

THIS HAS GOTTEN -- THIS CRB PROPOSAL HAS GOTTEN SO

COMPREHENSIVE THAT IT'S REALLY NOT POSSIBLE TO PUT IT IN A

SEPARATE ORDINANCE.

SO WHAT WE HAVE FOR YOU IS AN ORDINANCE WITH THE OPTION OF

THIS EXHIBIT A, WHICH IS THE MAY OPTION.

THE OPTION THAT'S ON THE AGENDA TODAY.

SO I WILL PUT THAT UP THERE AS YOUR FIRST OPTION.

THE OPTION THAT YOU ASKED FOR.

I WILL ALSO PUT UP HERE THE OPTION THAT WAS AGREED TO BACK

IN FEBRUARY.

THIS WAS THE DRAFT EXHIBIT A THAT COULD BE ATTACHED TO THIS

ORDINANCE, IF YOU WOULD PREFER TO GO WITH THE PROPOSAL THAT

WAS PRESENTED TO YOU BACK IN FEBRUARY THAT WAS WHAT I WILL

CALL THE COMPROMISE PROPOSAL, THE PROPOSAL I THOUGHT WAS

POISED TO GO FORWARD.

01:34:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
POINT OF ORDER.

I'M SORRY.

01:34:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER, LET HER FINISH AND I WILL

LET YOU --

01:34:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
BUT A POINT OF ORDER PREVAILS.




I WAS GOOD ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL YOU PROVIDED THE PENDING

DOCUMENT FROM FEBRUARY, OKAY?

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS COUNCIL VOTED ON 6 TO 1.

NOBODY HAS ASKED YOU THAT I AM AWARE OF, OKAY, AS A BODY,

THIS BODY HAS NOT ASKED YOU TO BRING BACK SOMETHING THAT WE

HAVE ALREADY PASSED UP.

THE SAME WAY I DIDN'T ASK YOU -- NOBODY ASKED YOU TO BRING

FORWARD THE SEPTEMBER DOCUMENT, OR THE DECEMBER DOCUMENT OR

ANYTHING ELSE.

I THINK IT'S COMPLETELY OUT OF ORDER TO BRING UP THAT

DOCUMENT THAT WE HAVE ALREADY PASSED UP AND VOTED 6 TO 1 TO

MOVE PAST.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

I THINK YOU ARE CARRYING THE WATER FOR MR. BENNETT OR CHIEF

DUGAN OR SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE ADMINISTRATION BY DOING THAT.

THAT'S WHY IT'S OUT OF ORDER.

01:35:08 >>GINA GRIMES:
IF YOU WILL LET ME FINISH I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I

DID THAT.

THANK YOU.

AFTER I'M DONE I WAS GOING TO INTRODUCE CHIEF DUGAN TO

PRESENT THE ADMINISTRATION'S PROPOSAL AND MAKE THOSE POLICY

ARGUMENTS --

01:35:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I --

01:35:23 >>GINA GRIMES:
LET ME FINISH.

01:35:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I GAVE IT BACK TO HER.




01:35:26 >>GINA GRIMES:
THE REASON THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS UP HERE IS

BECAUSE MANY OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WANT TO TAKE ACTION

TODAY, BUT THEY DON'T FIND ACCEPTABLE THE MAY VERSION.

SO WE GO BACK TO THE MOST RECENT VERSION WHICH WAS THE

FEBRUARY VERSION.

BUT THERE'S ANOTHER REASON, A LEGAL REASON, THAT I NEED TO

EXPLAIN TO YOU, AND THAT IS -- AND I HESITATE TO EVER BRING

UP THE CHARTER BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THAT'S A VERY SENSITIVE

SUBJECT FOR NOT JUST YOU BUT FOR MR. SHELBY AS WELL.

AND I AM JUST GOING TO READ WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS.

I AM NOT GOING TO INTERPRET IT.

UNDER CHARTER SECTION 1.04, SEPARATION OF POWERS, CITY

COUNCIL IS GRANTED ALL LEGISLATIVE POWER, QUOTE, EXCEPT AS

OTHERWISE HEREIN EXPRESSLY PROVIDED, CLOSE QUOTE.

CHARTER SECTIONS 4.013 DEALING WITH THE MAYOR, AND SECTION

5.01D DEALING WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

THE CHIEF AND THE MAYOR ARE EXPRESSLY GRANTED THE DUTY AND

RESPONSIBILITY OF GENERAL CHARGE AND MANAGEMENT OF THE

POLICE FORCE, AND ISSUANCE OF RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE

CONDUCT OF THE DEPARTMENT.

SO CITY COUNCIL'S LEGISLATIVE POWER DOES NOT EXTEND TO THE

POLICE DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE THE CHARTER EXPRESSLY PROVIDES

OTHERWISE.

WITH REGARD TO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE SUPERVISION AND CONTROL

OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.




ALSO, WE ARE CONCERNED WITHIN THE INCLUSION OF TPD

ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVES INTO A CRB ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT

WILL CREATE THE MISPERCEPTION THAT COUNCIL HAS THE AUTHORITY

TO DIRECT THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THEY DO

NOT.

ONLY THE MAYOR AND THE CHIEF OF POLICE DO.

AND THAT'S I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP

EARLIER AS TO WHY A CHARTER REVIEW IS NECESSARY, BECAUSE

THERE'S PROVISIONS IN THE CITY TOAD, AND THAT'S WITH WHAT'S

HAPPENING HERE.

THIS ORDINANCE WILL REQUIRE THE MAYOR'S CONSENT AND

APPROVING, THE CHIEF'S CONSENT AND APPROVAL BECAUSE YOU ARE

DIRECTING THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND YOU

DON'T HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.

BUT THE FEBRUARY VERSION, THE MAYOR IS WILLING TO CONSENT

AND APPROVE OF THAT, AND SO IS THE CHIEF, AND SO THE

DIRECTIVES AND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN THE FEBRUARY

VERSION WOULD BE CONSENTED TO BY THE MAYOR AND CHIEF OF

POLICE AND COULD BE INCORPORATED INTO YOUR LEGISLATION.

01:38:02 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY.

AS THE CITY ATTORNEY INDICATED THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS IN

THE CHARTER.

YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE CHARTER TO THIS COUNCIL.

01:38:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DID I HEAR THE WORDS INTERPRETATION?

01:38:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF THE CHARTER, THE




POWERS OF THIS CITY COUNCIL AS RELATES TO THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION, AS PUT FORTH?

01:38:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SO IF I UNDERSTAND MRS. GRIMES -- AND THIS

IS THE FIRST TIME I AM HEARING THIS IN THIS FORUM AND FORM,

FORM --

01:38:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M HAVING TROUBLE SEEING MR. SHELBY.

01:38:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M SORRY.

THIS SET UP.

01:38:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES, IT'S WEIRD.

01:38:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IT GOES BACK TO THE REASON I ASKED FOR THE

CONTINUANCE ON THE CHARTER ISSUE.

WHY I THOUGHT THAT MRS. GRIMES AND I WOULD BE ABLE TO

RESOLVE THESE ISSUES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, AND BECAUSE IT

WAS MY INTERPRETATION, AND MS. GRIMES AGREED WITH ME, TO DO

SO, WAS TO SUPERSEDE THE PREVIOUS ORDINANCE THAT WAS

CONJOINED WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WHICH IS A DISCUSSION I

DON'T WANT TO GET INTO, BECAUSE IT'S RESOLVED.

OR I THOUGHT SO UNTIL ACTUALLY THIS MOMENT.

BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THIS INTERPRETATION IS STILL --

01:39:33 >> MR. CHAIR.

01:39:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHOA, WHOA, LET ME MR. SHELBY FINISH,

AND FINISH WHAT HIS INTERPRETATION IS, AND THEN WE WILL GO

TO COUNCIL MEMBERS.

01:39:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IT APPEARS THAT WE ARE BACK TO THE

DISCUSSION OF IN EFFECT A SUPER VETO BECAUSE OF THE




INTERPRETATION OF THE CHARTER.

THE MAYOR DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE TO COUNCIL

WHY THE MAYOR DOESN'T SUPPORT IT.

AND IF THE MAYOR CHOOSES TO, IF THE COUNCIL STILL IN SPITE

OF IT, OR DESPITE IT, STILL CHOOSES TO GO FORWARD, IN THE

CHARTER THE MAYOR HAS A REMEDY.

IT'S CALLED THE VETO.

AND THE EXERCISE OF LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY THE CITY COUNCIL

CAN OVERRIDE THE VETO.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE PURPOSES OF WHY THE DEPARTMENTS ARE IN

THE CHARTER, AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAVE DEPARTMENTS IN THE

CHARTER, AND ONE.

REASONS IS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT -- AND I KNOW THIS FROM

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS -- IS

SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT IN THE CHARTER, IS SO THAT YOU AS A

LEGISLATIVE BODY CANNOT DISBAND IT BECAUSE IT REQUIRES THE

PEOPLE OF THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

IT'S NOT A LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION.

THAT'S JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT

I AM NOT PREPARED TO OPINE ON THIS.

I THINK FRANKLY, I DON'T WANT TO CHARACTERIZE IT.

I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THE ADMINISTRATION'S POSITION, AND BE ABLE

TO HEAR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S POSITION, THE ENTIRE

PRESENTATION BEFORE I WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO FORMULATE YOUR

OPTIONS.




01:41:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CARLSON, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

THEN MR. DINGFELDER.

01:41:19 >>BILL CARLSON:
I IMAGINED THE CITIZENS WATCHING THIS ARE

APPALLED AND SHOCKED BY THIS KIND OF THING.

THIS IS THE THING THE LAST ADMINISTRATION DID IN PULLING THE

CHARTER CARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND I HAVE THE UTMOST

RESPECT FOR MS. GRIMES, BUT WE HAVE SEEN THIS COMING UP

CONSTANTLY NOW, AND OUR LEGAL COUNSEL INTERPRETS IT

DIFFERENTLY, AND I GUESS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO, THE LAST

MAYOR HAD A FRIENDLY COUNCIL TO GET ADVICE ON SOMETHING.

I FOR ONE AM NOMINATE GOING TO STAND FOR IT.

THE MISINTERPRETATION OF THE CHARTER OR THE INTERPRETATION

OF THE CHARTER THAT TAKES AWAY THE CITY COUNCIL'S POWERS.

YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

WE NEED TO SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL BUT I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A

MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS FOR A FEW MONTHS, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT

GOING TO GET LEGAL COUNSEL HERE.

I'M NOT SURE MR. SHELBY DID CAN DO THAT.

WE NEED TO GET AN INDEPENDENT COUNSELOR A JUDGE TO ADVISE US

BECAUSE IT'S UNACCEPTABLE THAT THE CONSTANT INTERPRETATION

FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS SUPPOSED TO BE

REPRESENTING PEOPLE OF THE CITY AND THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE

MAYOR'S OFFICE SEEMS TO BE ONE SIDED IN THESE

RECOMMENDATIONS.

I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT.




IF MY COLLEAGUES DON'T AGREE I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT.

I'M SORRY.

THANK YOU.

01:42:39 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER AND MR. VIERA.

01:42:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I ASKED YOU THIS MORNING, DO WE HAVE THE

DOCUMENTS READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH COUNCIL'S MAY MOTION?

01:43:02 >>GINA GRIMES:
YOU.

01:43:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND YOU HANDED ME THE ORDINANCE WHICH

HAS TWO WHEREAS CLAUSES AND MAKES REFERENCE TO EXHIBIT A,

WHICH IS THE MOTION, WHICH COPIES THE MOTION THAT PASSED 6

TO 1, COUNCIL, IN FEBRUARY AND YOU HANDED ME AND I THINK I

SAID, ARE WE READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE, COUNCIL'S

DECISION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE?

AND I DIDN'T GET ANY PUSH BACK WHICH IMPLIED TO ME THAT I

CAN MAKE A MOTION TO SAY HERE THEY ARE, LET'S BE DONE WITH

THIS, WE VOTED 6 TO 1 TO GET TO THIS POINT TODAY AND BE DONE

WITH IT, AND ADOPT THIS ORDINANCE.

THIS IS A GOOD ORDINANCE.

THIS IS AN ORDINANCE THAT WE WORKED ON FOR MORE THAN A YEAR,

AS YOU DESCRIBED AT GREAT LENGTH.

IN CONGRESS THEY WORKED ON LEGISLATION FOR MANY YEARS.

WE HAVE WORKED ON THIS FOR A YEAR AND IT'S IN GOOD SHAPE AND

IT HAS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY, HAS INPUT FROM THE MAYOR,

HAS INPUT FROM US, AND IT'S READY TO GO.

NOW, YOU ARE PLACING THAT OTHER ONE ON THERE, AND IN MY




HEARING AND INSINUATING THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE?

WE ARE THE EXCLUSIVE LEGISLATIVE BODY UNDER A CHARTER

PROVISION THAT YOU --

01:44:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHOA, WHOA.

01:44:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M SORRY, IT IS UPSETTING.

01:44:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LET HIM FINISH.

01:44:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
ARE WE NOT READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH

THIS ORDINANCE THAT'S IN MY HAND THAT CAME OUT OF A 6 TO 1

VOTE BACK IN FEBRUARY?

01:44:35 >>GINA GRIMES:
MAY I ANSWER IT?

01:44:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THAT WAS A QUESTION.

01:44:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SURE GRIMES YOU ASKED ME TO PREPARE THE

ORDINANCE AND I DID.

THE ADMINISTRATION HAS REVIEWED IT AND THEY DO NOT SUPPORT

IT.

01:44:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
OKAY.

AND THEY CAN VETO IT UNDER THE CHARTER.

01:44:50 >>GINA GRIMES:
SEPTEMBER 24th WHEN WE HAD THE FIVE AND

A HALF HOUR WORKSHOP AND I SUBMITTED A LENGTHY LEGAL

OPINION, THIS PRECISE ISSUE WAS ADDRESSED IN THAT LEGAL

OPINION, ABOUT THE CHARGE, SUPERVISION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE

POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS SOLELY WITHIN THE JURISDICTION --

01:45:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
BUT WE --

01:45:12 >>GINA GRIMES:
AND THE MAYOR AND CHIEF OF POLICE.

01:45:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THEN WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING ANY ORDINANCE




BECAUSE YOU ARE TELLING US THAT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.

01:45:18 >>GINA GRIMES:
THIS WAS AN EFFORT, A COLLECTIVE EFFORT, A

COLLABORATIVE EFFORT AS WE COMMITTED TO FROM THE BEGINNING,

BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL.

AND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO INTERPRET THE CHARTER, YOU DON'T

HAVE TO BUT WE CAN AT LEAST READ IT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S

CRYSTAL CLEAR.

01:45:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YOU HAVE ALREADY READ IT.

01:45:40 >> IT SAYS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SHALL HAVE -- OF ALL

MATTERS RELATING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE CHIEF OF POLICE

SHALL BE THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT, AND UNDER THE CONTROL

AND SUPERVISION OF THE MAYOR SHALL HAVE GENERAL CHARGE OF

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SHALL BE THE DUTY OF THE CHIEF OF

POLICE TO, ONE, PRESERVE THE PEACE AND ENFORCE ALL

ORDINANCES OF THE CITY, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, TO PROTECT

AND PRESERVE THE PROPERTY OF THE CITY ASSIGNED TO THE

DEPARTMENT, AND FOUR, TO PRESCRIBE FROM TIME TO TIME BY AND

WITH THE CONSENT OF THE MAYOR RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE

ORDERLY AND EFFICIENT CONDUCT OF THE DEPARTMENT.

01:46:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WHAT I AM HEARING YOU SAY, GINA IS R,

YOU ARE READING THIS, AND YOU ARE SPEAKING TO US, AND I

BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE ONLY ORDINANCE WE CAN

APPROVE AS A BODY AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY, IS THE ORDINANCE

THAT THE MAYOR HAS SIGNED OFF ON, OKAY?

AND THE MAYOR NEVER COMES DOWN HERE AND TALKS TO US ABOUT




THIS AND WE HAVE NEVER SEEN HER SIGNATURE ON ANY OF THIS,

OKAY?

SO I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY OUT OF THE HORSE'S MOUTH WHAT

SHE WANTS OR WHAT SHE DOESN'T WANT.

BUT I BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE ONLY ORDINANCE WE

CAN APPROVE IS THE ONE THAT THE MAYOR HAS BLESSED.

AND TO ME, THAT TAKES AWAY OUR LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY, OUR

SOLE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY AS IS STATED IN THE CHARTER.

OKAY?

AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE NEED THE MAYOR'S APPROVAL, THEN

WE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT ANY ORDINANCE, ANY

ORDINANCE AT ALL.

01:47:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA.

01:47:28 >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU.

I JUST WANT TO, HOW SHALL I SAY THIS, YOU KNOW, I AM SEEING

A LOT OF ESCALATION HERE, SEEING A LOT OF ESCALATION HERE.

I WANT TO HAVE A RESOLUTION ON THESE ISSUES TODAY.

ALL THE ISSUES TODAY DEALING WITH THE CRB.

I THINK THAT WE AGREE ON 80%, 90% OF THE ISSUES BEFORE US.

WE ARE FOCUSING ON THE 10%.

WE CAN VOTE YES OR NO ON EITHER ORDINANCE ON WHATEVER.

I CAN PROPOSED PROPOSE RIGHT NOW, A BUNCH OF EDITS HAVE BEEN

CHANGED BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING AND I CAN BE VOTED

DOWN.

THE WAY I INTERPRET THE MAYOR SAYING, OR THE ADMINISTRATION,




MAYOR, WHATEVER, SAYING, THAT'S MY POSITION.

IF YOU PASS THIS, I AM GOING TO VETO IT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE MAYOR OR THE ADMINISTRATION TELLING

US WE CAN'T PASS SOMETHING.

THAT'S THEM MERELY STATING THEIR POSITION.

I HAVE AGREED WITH THEIR POSITION IN THE PAST.

THERE'S ISSUES THAT I HAVE DISAGREED.

THAT'S THEM MERELY STATING THEIR OPINION.

WE CAN PASS WHATEVER WE WANT.

THEN IT'S SUBJECT TO THE SYSTEM OF OUR CHARTER.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T ESCALATE THIS

SITUATION, IF WE DON'T PASS SOMETHING HERE TODAY, THAT IS A

TERRIBLE FAILURE.

WE SHOULD PASS SOMETHING TODAY, SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD.

AGAIN, WE AGREE ON 80 TO 90%, I THINK ALL OF US DO.

LET'S FOCUS ON THAT.

THAT'S JUST MY RESPECTFUL OPINION.

EVERYBODY WHO IS HERE, I THINK, HAS GOOD INTENTIONS.

I KNOW ALL SEVEN OF US, ALL SIX OF YOU ALL GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD

FOLKS, ALL THE FOLKS HERE ARE GOOD FOLKS, PUBLIC SERVANTS.

LET'S PASS SOMETHING TODAY AND FOCUS ON THE 80 OR 90%.

LET'S NOT ESCALATE STUFF.

THANK YOU.

01:49:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM NOT AS ASTUTE AS MR. VIERA IN

UNDERSTANDING WHAT I HAVE HEARD AND UNDERSTANDING -- MAYBE I




WAS THE ONE THAT I WAS REFERRED TO 6 TO 1.

I AM USUALLY THE ONE ANYWAY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ITEM D, I AM NOT A LAWYER, AND I HAVE NEVER

BEEN IN COURT TO UNDERSTAND A DOCUMENT OTHER THAN ONE

I.ADOPT WANT TO SHALL LIKE WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THEY ARE

TEARING APART THE CONSTITUTION, AND THE CONSTITUTION, THE

CHARTER REALLY RELATES TO DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS, BUT IT

MEANS THE SAME THING.

WHAT YOU HAVE THE RATE TO DO, WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT

TO DO.

SO WE AGREE LIKE MR. VIERA SAID, 80 OR 90% OF THIS ONE ITEM,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE THERE'S A WAY THAT YOU CAN PRESENT THAT

ONE ITEM, B, AND HAVE THESE TWO ATTORNEYS GO BEFORE A JUDGE

AND LET THE JUDGE MAKE THE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT IT MEANS.

I THINK THERE'S A FRIENDLY WAY OF DOING THESE THINGS WITHOUT

HAVING ALL THIS CONVERSATION.

WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE IS STARTING A WASHINGTON, D.C.

PROBLEM.

AND I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN HERE.

I HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITHOUT THAT.

SO THE PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY, THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY

HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITHOUT LISTENING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER

SIDE AND NOTHING IN THE MIDDLE.

THERE'S GOT TO BE SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

AND THAT MIDDLE HAS DISAPPEARED IN AMERICA AND HERE IS WHERE




THE COUNTRY IS TORN IN HALF AND THE CITY IS GOING TO BE TORN

IN HALF JUST LIKE THE CONSTITUTION IS ON BOTH SIDES WHETHER

YOU ARE AN R OR D OR I OR NO PARTY AFFILIATION.

THIS IS WHAT'S COMING TO THIS COUNCIL IF WE CONTINUE THIS.

THANK YOU.

01:50:40 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA, I SAW YOUR HAND.

THEN MR. CARLSON.

01:50:43 >>LUIS VIERA:
I SEE CHIEF DUGAN HERE STANDING PATIENTLY

I.DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO SAY ANYTHING.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

01:50:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CARLSON.

01:50:56 >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.

ON CHARTER ISSUES, THERE ARE MUCH BIGGER ISSUES THAT OUR

ATTORNEY NEEDS TIME TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND, AND WE NEED TO BE

ABLE TO HAVE TIME TO GET ADVICE FROM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.

THIS ITEM WAS PUT NOT ON THE REGULAR AGENDA, THIS IS A

CONVERSATION WE HAD AT THE BEGINNING.

IT WAS ADDED AS AN AMENDMENT AND I AM NOT AWARE THAT ITEM D

OR WHATEVER THE OTHER CHOICE WAS PUT ON THE WEBSITE FOR

ANYBODY PUBLICLY TO GET INPUT ON IT.

I'M OKAY.

I THINK WE KNOW WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION STANDS.

INSTEAD OF WASTING A WHOLE AFTERNOON LISTENING TO IT, WHY

DON'T WE VOTE ON OPTION A AND D AND SEE WHERE WE STAND UP

AND IF IT ENDS IN A CHARTER FIGHT BEFORE A JUDGE I THINK WE




SHOULD GO BEFORE A JUDGE AT SOME POINT.

BUT IF WE CAN APPROVE SOMETHING AND MOVE ON, LET'S DO IT

INSTEAD OF SPENDING TIME GOING BACK AND FORTH, PLEASE.

OR IF YOU ALL WANT TO DEBATE THE CHARTER ISSUE, LET'S PUT IT

ON AN AGENDA, LET'S CONTINUES IT FOR A FEW MONTHS AND HAVE

THE CHARTER ISSUE.

01:52:02 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THERE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE.

THE MAINFRAME OF THE CHARTER IS YOUR LEGISLATIVE BODY.

WHICH THIS BODY DOES.

THE SECOND PORTION IS D, WHERE WHEN THIS BODY VOTES ON A

LEGISLATIVE MATTER, IT IS THE MAYOR'S DUTY TO FULFILL THE

CHARTER LAWS AND REGULATIONS OF THIS BODY.

NOW, THE SECOND PORTION OF THAT D IS CORRECT.

WE CAN APPROVE WHATEVER, BUT THERE MAY BE POLICIES AND

PROCEDURES ALONG THE WAY THAT THE MAYOR SEES, THAT THEY

IMPLEMENT THAT.

THEY ARE NOT LEGISLATIVE.

AT THIS POINT RIGHT NOW WE ARE A LEGISLATIVE BODY.

THIS BODY IS A LEGISLATIVE BODY.

AND WE GO FORTH WITH THIS DOCUMENT TODAY, THAT IT GOES TO

THE ADMINISTRATION, TO SIGN OFF, IF THEY DON'T AGREE, IT

COMES BACK TO A VETO, IF IT DOESN'T COME BACK TO A VETO THEN

THE MAYOR CAN ENACT THOSE LEGISLATIVE RULES AND POLICIES.

NOW IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT YOU COMES UP WITH THE CHIEF'S

DUTY, THE MAYOR AND CHIEF HAVE THE RATE TO DO WHATEVER THEY




DO TO DEAL WITH THOSE PARTICULAR PROBLEMS, UNLESS IT

CONTRADICTS SOMETHING OF THE CHARTER OR OUR LEGISLATIVE LAWS

AND ORDINANCES.

IT'S VERY SIMPLE.

BUT NOW WE HAVE PEOPLE'S HEARTS AND PASSIONS THAT HAVE

GOTTEN INVOLVED IN THIS, AND YOU HAVE THE POLICE UNION,

POLICE DEPARTMENT GOING ONE WAY, ACLU AND FOLKS THE OTHER.

SO WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS ENTANGLED IN A DOCUMENT THAT

IT'S VERY SIMPLE TO I BELIEVE INTERPRET.

I BELIEVE THAT THIS BODY HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE LAWS AND

LEGISLATION, AND THE SECOND PORTION IS THE MAYOR AND

ADMINISTRATION THAT PUTS THOSE OUT, ANY OTHER KIND OF POLICY

THAT THEY WANT TO ENACT ALONG THE WAY, THEN THAT'S THE

POLICE CHIEF AND THE MAYOR, AND THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT.

I'M NO LAWYER BUT THAT'S HOW I READ IT.

01:54:12 >>GINA GRIMES:
I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THERE ARE OTHER

OPTIONS, THERE ARE MULTIPLE OTHER OPTIONS.

IT'S JUST THAT WE SPENT THE LAST YEAR IN MEETINGS GOING OVER

THEM ALL AND AS YOU KNOW WORKING THROUGH ALL THE LANGUAGE,

CHANGING IT, MASSAGING IT, I WANT TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS THE

LEGAL SITUATION THAT WE ALL FIND OURSELVES IN.

IT'S BECAUSE THIS IS A COMPREHENSIVE REFORM OF THE CITIZENS

REVIEW BOARD.

IT ISN'T JUST THE AVERAGE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

THERE WERE FOUR DIFFERENT DIRECTIVES IN HERE THAT REALLY




CHANGED IT FROM GOING FROM THE OLD CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD, IT

DIDN'T REALLY DIRECT THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO

ONE THAT DID, AND NOW THE ENTER VIEW PANEL FOR PROSPECTIVE

OFFICERS, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS PROPOSED BY CHAIRMAN

GUDES.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE CHIEF HIMSELF SUPPORTS AND IS

STANDING BY READY TO IMPLEMENT.

BUT I THINK THAT ALL OF YOU CAN AGREE THAT COUNCIL IS THE

LEGISLATIVE BODY DOES NOT HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY TO

ADVISE OR DIRECT THE CHIEF TO ESTABLISH AN INTERVIEW PANEL

AND WHO TO PUT IT ON IT.

THAT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE EXECUTIVE FUNCTION UNDER THAT

CHARTER SECTION THAT I JUST READ TO YOU.

AND SO UNDER THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, YOU HAVE BROAD

LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE EXPRESSLY

PROVIDED IN THE CHARTER, WHICH IT IS.

THE OTHER MAJOR REFORM YOU ARE ADOPTING IS THE COMPLAINT

FILING AND TRACKING SYSTEM DIRECTING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

AT THE TIME THEY INTAKE A COMPLAINT TO ASSIGN IT A NUMBER,

GIVE IT A TRACKING -- PUT IT THROUGH A TRACKING SYSTEM,

PUBLISH IT ONLINE AND THEN REPORT ON THOSE COMPLAINTS TO THE

CRB.

THE COMMUNITY SURVEY.

YOU ARE DIRECTING THE CRB TO ADVISE TPD TO CONDUCT A

COMMUNITY SURVEY, AND THEN THE LAST ONE WAS REASSIGNMENT OF




THE CRB ATTORNEY.

THAT'S ANOTHER EXECUTIVE FUNCTION THAT'S BEING DIRECTED OR

ADDRESSED IN THIS ORDINANCE THAT IS NOT PERMITTED UNDER THE

CHARTER AS A LEGISLATIVE ACT BUT AS AN ACT THAT'S EXECUTIVE

AND LEGISLATIVE, IT CAN BE DONE.

ALL OF US, ESSENTIALLY YOU ARE COMPLYING YOUR LEGISLATIVE

POWERS WITH THE MAYOR'S AND THE CHIEF'S ADMINISTRATIVE AND

EXECUTIVE POWERS AND COMING OUT WITH A MUCH, MUCH BETTER

ORDINANCE AND A COMPREHENSIVE REFORM OF THE CRB THAT YOU

SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

AND THIS IS JUST SUCH A HOT BUTTON TOPIC BUT THE END PRODUCT

IS EXCELLENT, AND I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT WHEN YOU

TAKE ACTION TODAY YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.

AND I WILL LET THE CHIEF ADDRESS YOU AS FAR AS WHAT THE

POLICY REASONS ARE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION'S POSITION.

01:57:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, I IS A YOUR HAND.

I THOUGHT I SAW YOUR HAND.

01:57:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO, NO, I PREFER, COUNCIL, THAT YOU HEAR

FROM THE CHIEF AND THE ADMINISTRATION ON THIS.

01:57:11 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.

CHIEF.

01:57:15 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
CHIEF OF POLICE, TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AS YOU ARE AWARE, WE HAVE WORKED VERY HARD TO BE TRANSPARENT

WITH OUR COMMUNITY.

WE ARE OPEN TO OVERSIGHT AND REFORM.




WE HAVE LEE VIEWED AND IMPLEMENTED CHANGES AND KEPT AN OPEN

MIND AS TO WHAT OUR COMMUNITY EXPECTS FROM THEIR POLICE

DEPARTMENT.

AS I HAVE SAID IN THE PAST I WOULD SPEAK LESS AND LISTEN

MORE, AND I BELIEVE I HAVE DONE THAT.

BUT I AM NOW COMING BEFORE YOU TODAY TO SPEAK BECAUSE I

THINK IT'S TIME THAT I SPEAK TO YOU, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TOO

QUIET FOR WAY TOO LONG ON THIS TOPIC.

THE PAST YEAR HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT ON OUR POLICE

OFFICERS.

THE TIMES OF CIVIL UNREST, THE PANDEMIC, THE CONTINUED

CRITICISM OF POLICE HAVE TAKEN A TOLL ON OUR MORALE, POLICE

OFFICERS ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE SPLIT SECOND DECISIONS, YET

THIS COUNCIL HAS SPENT OVER A YEAR TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THE

CRB.

FIVE DAYS FROM NOW WILL BE THE ANNIVERSARY OF ONE YEAR

GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, AND HERE WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT

REFORM, AND QUITE FRANKLY THIS WHOLE THING TODAY HAS BECOME

A CLOG IN THE DRAIN OF PROGRESSION.

SO I HAVE SOME SLIDES TO PRESENT.

WHAT'S THAT?

01:58:35 >>BILL CARLSON:
YOU JUST BLAMED CITY COUNCIL FOR THIS

TAKING A YEAR TO GO THROUGH.

THIS IS A NEGOTIATION THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT FACTIONS IN

THE COMMUNITY THAT HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON IT.




SOME OF THEM WANT MORE REGULATIONS, SOME WANT LESS.

AND THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, MS. GRIMES,

HAVE BEEN WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE COMMUNITY FOR A YEAR

GOING BACK AND FORTH ON IT.

EVERY VERSION THAT COMES UP, THERE IS CONCERN GOING BACK AND

FORTH AND WE ARE TRYING TO LISTEN TO THE CONCERN AND TRYING

TO GET WHAT YOU JUST BLAMED US AS IF WE ARE NOT TRYING TO

FIX THE PROBLEM, OR IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY REGARD FOR THE

POLICE.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE DELAYED IT IS BECAUSE ONE OF THE

INTERESTED PARTIES IS THE PBA AND THERE ARE PEOPLE IN OUR

COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY MY CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE

OF THE POLICE, AND WE WANT TO TAKE THE POLICE POINT OF VIEW

IN MIND.

WE DON'T WANT TO JUST TAKE THE ACLU OR THESE OTHER GROUPS

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S TAKEN SO LONG.

I JUST FIND IT VERY OFFENSIVE, OH, CITY COUNCIL CAN'T MAKE A

DECISION.

WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY WHICH

UNFORTUNATELY HADN'T HAPPENED FOR A LONG TIME WITH THE CITY

BEFORE THIS CITY COUNCIL GOT ON BOARD AND THIS MAYOR GOT ON

BOARD AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE.

THANK YOU.

01:59:51 >> WELL, I WOULD DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT WE DON'T LISTEN TO

THE COMMUNITY.




TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS A STRONG RECORD OF COMMUNITY

POLICING, LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY.

SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT I HAVE HAD TO SIT HERE AND LISTEN

TO, AND MR. DINGFELDER TALK ABOUT GINA GRIMES CARRYING MY

WATER.

I APPRECIATE THAT BUT NOBODY CARRIES BRIAN DUGAN'S WATER.

I HAVE NOT HILT WITH THE MEDIA, I HAVE NOT DELEGATED ANY OF

MY DIRT IF I WORK.

I TAKE UMBRAGE WITH THAT COMMENT.

NOT BLAMING, I HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE

AND OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD.

I AM EXPLAINING TO YOU WHAT WE HAVE DONE AND IF THAT'S NOT

GOOD ENOUGH THEN I AM GOING TO ASK THE ADMINISTRATION THAT

WE MOVE FORWARD ANYWAY.

SO THEY CAN'T WAIT.

WE ARE VERY MUCH AWARE OF THAT.

THAT CAME IN WITHIN DAYS OF THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER.

AND WE IMMEDIATELY MADE CHANGES TO OUR POLICIES TO ALIGN

OURS OURSELVES WITHIN THOSE GUIDELINES.

WE MADE SURE THAT OUR POLICIES REFLECTED WHAT WE PRACTICE.

WE BANNED NO KNOCK SEARCH WARRANTS.

WE DON'T DO NO KNOCK SEARCH WARRANTS. IN MY 31 YEARS AT THE

POLICE DEPARTMENT.

COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU SPENT OVER 25 YEARS THERE.

WE DON'T DO NO-KNOCK SEARCH WARRANTS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, WE




PUT IN THE WRITING BECAUSE IT WAS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE

BECAUSE OF THE BRIANNA TAYLOR INCIDENT.

02:01:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
[OFF MICROPHONE]

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT DOCUMENT AND THAT DOCUMENT,

EXCUSE ME, BETWEEN THAT DOCUMENT AND THAT DOCUMENT IS THIS

ISSUE ABOUT WHO SELECTS THE MEMBERS.

SUBSTANTIVELY THERE'S NO OTHER DIFFERENCE.

WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.

I BELIEVE THAT TPD DOES A GREAT JOB.

I THINK WE HAVE ALL DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB IN FIXING THIS

ORDINANCE.

THIS COUNCIL VOTED 6 TO 1 TWO MONTHS AGO TO MOVE FORWARD

WITH THIS ORDINANCE, AND THE ONLY THING WE TWEAKED FROM THE

DIFFERENCE IN THAT DOCUMENT AND THAT DOCUMENT IS COUNCIL

PICKS ONE MEMBER EACH, AND THE MAYOR GETS FOUR, OKAY, WHICH

IS A SLIGHT, A SLIGHT DROP.

OTHER THAN THAT, I LOVE YOU.

WE LOVE EACH OTHER.

IT'S LIKE WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.

THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE.

02:02:16 >> WELL, I AM FEELING THE LOVE, SO YOU KNOW.

02:02:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WELL, I'M SORRY.

ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS YOU KNOW THAT THIS COUNCIL CARES ABOUT

YOU AND CARES ABOUT YOUR PEOPLE AND CARES ABOUT TPD, AND WE

SHOW IT WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT.




02:02:30 >> I'M NOT SURE THAT OUR POLICE OFFICERS CAN CONTINUE TO GO

OUT INTO THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND POLICE EFFECTIVELY WITH IT

HANGING OVER THEIR HEAD AND LIMBO OF HOW WE ARE GOING TO BE

SECOND GUESSED BY A CRB AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY

WHEN THEY ARE MAKING SPLIT SECOND DECISIONS.

WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND --

02:02:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND --

02:02:55 >> TO CHANGE MY OPINION ON THE THREE ITEMS THAT EVERYBODY IS

ARGUING ABOUT --

02:02:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
BUT IT'S NOT EVEN THOSE THREE ITEMS.

THE ONLY ISSUE RIGHT THIS SECOND IS BETWEEN THAT STARK OF

PAPER AND THAT STACK OF PAPER IS WHO PICKS THOSE MEMBERS.

THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE.

THE OTHER TWO ISSUES WE HAVE ALL AGREED WE ARE GOING TO PUT

THEM OFF TILL NEXT FEBRUARY.

IT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE.

02:03:16 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
SO AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE, I HAVE A PROBLEM

WITH THIS WAITING TILL NEXT FEBRUARY.

LET'S MAKE A DECISION TODAY.

02:03:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THAT'S DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER DAY

THOUGH.

02:03:25 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
WELL, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

IT CAN'T KEEP GOING TO ANOTHER DAY.




COUNCILMAN GUDES SAID, WE WORK FOR THE PEOPLE.

AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE, I SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE MAYOR

BUT I WORK FOR THE PEOPLE.

SO WHY DON'T WE COME TO A CONCLUSION AND MAKE A DECISION?

LET'S GET EVERYBODY ON THE RECORD AND SAY, EITHER WILLING TO

MOVE FORWARD WITH PROGRESS, OR YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO DELAY

THIS.

02:03:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
BUT THIS DOCUMENT IS PROGRESS.

AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO DOCUMENTS IS WHO

PICKS THOSE MEMBERS, WHICH I FIND TO BE VERY, VERY

INSIGNIFICANT THING.

THOSE OTHER TWO ISSUES, I BACKED OFF OF.

OKAY?

THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL I BACKED OFF OF.

I WANTED IN THE THIS DOCUMENT.

THE SUBPOENA POWER, I WANTED IT IN THIS DOCUMENT.

BUT I BACKED OFF OF IT BECAUSE MS. GRIMES SAID WE SHUNTS DO

IT, WE CAN'T DO IT, WHATEVER.

TO ME, THAT WAS THE COMPROMISE.

SO WE BACKED OFF OF THAT.

MY FELLOW -- MADE A MOTION ABOUT THE COMPOSITION AND WHO

PICKS IT.

WE VOTED 6 TO 1.

WE ARE READY TO MOVE ON THIS, CHIEF.

WE CAN MOVE ON IT TOGETHER.




02:04:35 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
I CAN'T SUPPORT DELAYING THIS TILL FEBRUARY.

I THINK THESE THREE ITEMS NEED TO BE DISCUSSED AND DELIVERED

TODAY SO OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

02:04:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
LET'S VOTES ON THIS ITEM AND THEN WE CAN

DISCUSS THOSE OTHER TWO ITEMS LATER.

LATER TODAY.

02:04:49 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
I THINK YOU ARE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT IS NOT

THE GOLDEN TICKET THE POLICE REFORM THAT SOME OF YOU THINK

IT IS.

IT'S NOT THE WAY IT'S DONE.

IT'S POLICY, TRANSPARENCY, HOW IT'S DONE.

WE HAVE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF IT.

IT NEUTERS THE AUTHORITY OF THE POLICE CHIEF WHEN WE THROW

EVERYTHING TO THE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT.

WE HAVE A CIVIL SERVANT BOARD IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

WE HAVE A POLICE OFFICER WHO WORKS FOR US.

THREE DIFFERENT INVESTIGATIONS ARE ALL SIMILAR.

THE FIRST TIME, HE WAS CLEARED BY THE DEPARTMENT.

THE SECOND TIME, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T BELIEVE HIM NOW BECAUSE

NOW WE HAVE TWO INCIDENTS, HE WAS SUSPENDED.

THE THIRD TIME HE DID THIS, I TERMINATED HIM AS CHIEF OF

POLICE, BECAUSE I HOLD COPS ACCOUNTABLE.

HE WENT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD AND GOT HIS JOB BACK.

WHAT DISCIPLINE DID HE GET?




NOTHING.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

THAT HE WAS SUSPENDED IN ONE INCIDENT, A VERY SIMILAR

INCIDENT GETS TERMINATED, AND GETS ZERO DISCIPLINE.

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, THEY DON'T

UNDERSTAND OUR PROCEDURES.

I HOLD COPS ACCOUNTABLE.

IT'S TIME THAT WE MOVE FORWARD.

I DON'T THINK THE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT IS THE GOLDEN TICKET

THE POLICE REFORM THAT SOME PEOPLE FEEL IT IS.

02:06:12 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LET ME SAY THIS, CHIEF.

AS A PERSON WHO UNDERSTANDS POLICE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES,

ON ONE HAND I UNDERSTAND YOU.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I HEAR FROM CITIZENS.

I HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT'S BEST FOR EVERYBODY.

WHAT I SEE NOW, THERE'S A COCK DOCUMENT WE CAN VOTE UP OR

DOWN THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES LIKE YOU SAID, THAT'S GOING TO

COME UP POSSIBLY DURING OUR CHARTER REVIEW WITH MRS. GRIMES

AND MR. SHELBY.

MAYBE ATTORNEY, AND I ALWAYS SAY, IF WE HAVE AN OUTSIDE

INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, THE CHARTER SAYS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY

MAKES THE DECISION ANYHOW.

NOW YOU HAVE A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD WITH THE ATTORNEY

SITUATION.

THESE ARE THINGS WE CAN'T MOVE ON RIGHT NOW.




UP OR DOWN VOTE.

BUT THE NUMBERS, THE REST OF THAT STUFF IS KICKED DOWN THE

ROAD, DURING A CHARTER REVIEW SECTION WORKSHOP ON ISSUES

THAT WE ARE GOING TO PULL OFF THE CHARTER.

BUT I DO BELIEVE YOU ARE RIGHT, WE NEED TO MOVE TODAY WITH

THIS ITEM.

IF THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T LIKE OUR VOTE, THE MAYOR HAS

THE RIGHT TO VETO THAT VOTE AND WE MOVE FORWARD WITH A

SIMPLE MAJORITY IF THAT'S THE CASE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND FOR ME REQUEST IS THE BIG DEAL WITH EACH

PERSON -- I AM NOT GOING TO PICK ANYBODY WHO I KNOW IS

ANTI-POLICE, I HATE THE POLICE, OR HAVE WAY OUT FAR IDEAS,

BUT PICK SOMEBODY WHO UNDERSTANDS POLICIES AND PROCEDURES,

WHO UNDERSTANDS COMMUNITY POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.

A PERSON THAT'S GOING TO BE A VIABLE PERSON TO UNDERSTAND

HEY, THAT COP IS RIGHT, OR HE'S WRONG WITH WHAT HE DID.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THAT'S WRONG, THAT COPS COP IS

WRONG.

SO I UNDERSTAND POLICY.

I THINK THAT WILL PROBABLY THE CASE.

ANY VOTE I CHOOSE IN THE CITY, I NEVER PUT A PERSON ON THE

BOARD WHO IS NOT QUALIFIED OF THE SUBJECT MATTER.

PERIOD.

BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE -- I AM COUNCILMAN GUDES AND

THAT I AM MAKING THE RIGHT DECISION.




I HEAR YOU.

I UNDERSTAND YOU.

BUT I JUST THINK WE NEED TO MOVE NOW ON THE ISSUE.

THE OTHER STUFF GETS KICKED DOWN THE ROAD.

02:08:49 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
MY CONCERN IS THE AS THE CHIEF IS THAT WE

WOULD HAVE A NEUTRAL BOARD.

AND I THINK WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS PUT FORWARD IN FIVE

FIVE AND ONE WOULD BE MORE OF A NEUTRAL BOARD.

02:09:03 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WHAT MAKES IT MORE NEUTRAL WITH FIVE AND

FIVE?

02:09:13 >>CHIEF DUGAN:
BECAUSE WE HAVE FIVE AND FIVE AND ONE FROM

THE NAACP.

02:09:18 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I DON'T THINK AGAIN ANYBODY FROM THE SCUFF

LEVEL SHOULD BE ON THAT BOARD, BECAUSE SOME ISSUES MAY COME

UP.

THAT'S MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.

URSULA, I WILL LET YOU GO.

02:09:33 >> URSULA:
I HAVE LISTENED TO YOU TALK ABOUT THE VETO AND I

BELIEVE IT'S COME UP A COUPLE OF TIMES.

ONE OF THE UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT THE CURRENT EXISTING CRB

ORDINANCE IS THE WAY THAT IT WAS IMPLEMENTED.

AND I DON'T WANT TO BRING IT UP, BRING UP ANY BAD ISSUES OR

ANYTHING, BUT THE WAY THAT THIS WAS IMPLEMENTED, THE

PROVISION IN YOUR IMPLEMENTATION BACK IN 2015, NOT YOU

SPECIFICALLY BUT CITY COUNCIL'S IMPLEMENTATION, SAID THAT




THIS CHAPTER OF OUR ORDINANCE WOULD NOT GET CHANGED UNLESS

THOSE CHANGES WERE INITIATED BY THE MAYOR, AND THEN SENT TO

CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.

THIS ISSUE AS TO THE BOARD APPOINTMENTS WAS NOT INITIATED BY

THE MAYOR, WHICH MEANS AS FAR AS WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS, IN

ORDER TO CHANGE IT, IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE INITIATED BY THE

MAYOR AND THEN BROUGHT TO YOU.

THIS WAS INITIATED BY CITY COUNCIL.

SO BY ITS VERY NATURE, YOU ARE PROPOSING TO CHANGE

LEGISLATION OUTSIDE OF WHAT YOUR OLD LEGISLATION SAYS, THE

METHOD OF CHANGING IT.

02:10:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IF WE GO WITH THIS NEW METHOD WE ARE

GETTING THE WHEREAS CLAUSE SAYING THAT A NEW ADMINISTRATION

COMES AND CAN'T CHANGE THAT.

THAT'S A CONCERN TO COUNCIL, I THINK.

02:10:50 >> WELL, I BELIEVE MRS. GRIMES ADDRESSED THAT.

WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED IN THE FEBRUARY EDITION WAS I

BELIEVE WHAT WE WERE REFERRING TO, AND SO THE NEW

LEGISLATION THAT'S BEING PROPOSED WOULD NOT HAVE THAT, IF

YOU CALL IT NUANCE, WHATEVER THAT TECHNICALITY IS, IT WOULD

NOT BE IN THE NEW ORDINANCE, OR EXECUTIVE ORDER.

02:11:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO THE NEW ORDINANCE WILL SUPERSEDE THE

OLD EXECUTIVE ORDER.

CORRECT?

02:11:17 >> UNDER THE VERSION THAT WAS GIVEN TO YOU UNDER THE




FEBRUARY 2021 VERSION, YES, SIR.

02:11:23 >>GINA GRIMES:
I WAS GOING TO ADD, I SAID TO YOU PREVIOUSLY

THAT THIS PROPOSAL REQUIRES THE ADMINISTRATION'S APPROVAL AS

WELL AS THE COUNCIL'S APPROVAL, AND SO THE MANNER WHICH WE

WERE GOING TO DO THAT IS COMPANION, YOU REMEMBER TALKING

ABOUT THE COMPANION EXECUTIVE ORDER AND ORDINANCE.

WE WERE GOING TO DO WHAT WE REFER TO AS THE RIP AND REPLACE

BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW UNPLEASANT THE PREVIOUS ORDINANCE,

THE SENTIMENT ABOUT THE PREVIOUS ORDINANCE AND THE PREVIOUS

EXECUTIVE ORDER, SO WE WERE GOING TO SUPERSEDE THE PREVIOUS

ORDINANCE FROM 2015, WE WERE GOING TO SUPERSEDE THE PREVIOUS

EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM 2015.

HOWEVER, THE EXECUTIVE ORDER WILL STATE THAT THE DIRECTIVES

TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT CANNOT BE CHANGED UNLESS THE MAYOR

AGREES TO THE CHANGES, TO THE DIRECTIVES, MR. DINGFELDER --

02:12:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WAIT A MINUTE.

02:12:28 >>GINA GRIMES:
WHEN YOU --

02:12:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M SORRY -- point of order.

Point of order.

02:12:37 >>GINA GRIMES:
When it comes to those sweeping directives,

it's going to require the consent of the chief and the

mayor.

There are minor changes you can make to the existing

ordinance if you would like.

I evaluated that as an option C.




BUT THEY HAVE NO WHERE NEAR THE VALUE OR TRANSPARENCY THAT

ALL OF THESE COMPREHENSIVE CHANGES WILL PROVIDE.

BUT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT IT'S GOT TO BE A JOINT PROPOSAL

BETWEEN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE

BRANCH. I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT'S SO OBJECTIONABLE.

I ACTUALLY THINK IT DEMONSTRATES THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION

AND WE END UP WITH A MODEL CRB.

02:13:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY IS TRYING TO DANCE.

I WILL LET MR. SHELBY TALK AND THEN -- MR. DINGFELDER AND

THEN GO TO YOU, SIR.

02:13:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I HEAR REFERENCE TO THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT

OF THE WORD CHANGE.

THIS ORDINANCE DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING.

IT SUPERSEDES EVERYTHING.

BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE ORDINANCE AS IT STANDS AND

THE WAY IT'S BEEN INTERPRETED IN THE SEPTEMBER MEMO FROM THE

CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT SHE REFERENCED, WITH THAT

INTERPRETATION, IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE ORDINANCE AS IT

STANDS VIOLATES THE SEPARATION OF POWERS OF THE CHARTER,

BECAUSE YOU AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY CANNOT CHANGE THAT WITHOUT

THE PRIOR APPROVAL WEST MAYOR.

THAT'S ALL THIS WILL BE THE FIRST AMENDMENT, PRIOR

RESTRAINT.

YOU ARE RESTRAINED EVEN BEFORE PROPOSING SOMETHING UNLESS

YOU HAVE THE MAYOR'S BLESSING.




THE MAYOR IS ALSO BOUND.

WHY?

BECAUSE IF SHE CHANGES THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT IS CONTRARY

TO THE LAW, WHICH IS CONTRARY TO THE ORDINANCE, THEN SHE IS

IN VIOLATION OF THE CHARTER.

AND I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THE CITY ATTORNEY WOULD AGREE

THAT THE MAYOR CAN'T DO THAT.

SO SHE WOULD -- SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO EXECUTIVE ORDERS BUT

SHE CANNOT DO IT INCONSISTENT WITH THE COUNCIL.

SHE CANNOT DO IT INCONSISTENT WITH LAW.

SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE, COUNCIL, FRANKLY, IS CHECK, AND IF

COUNCIL WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, I

THINK THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE RESOLVED IN ONE FORM OR

FASHION.

OTHERWISE, FRANKLY, COUNCIL, YOU MAY VERY WELL, BOTH THE

ADMINISTRATIVE, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, AND THE LEGISLATIVE

BRANCH, MAY BE STUCK WITH THIS WHERE NEITHER SIDE CAN CHANGE

IT UNLESS YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER AS A CITY.

02:15:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CARLSON, MR. DINGFELDER, MR. VIERA.

02:15:21 >>BILL CARLSON:
FIRST, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COME

OUT THAT MY COLLEAGUES WANT TO COMMENT TO, BUT AS SOMEONE

STATED BEFORE, THIS IS FIXING THE 2015 VERSION.

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF LAST YEAR.

IT'S NOT ANYTHING NEW.

IT'S FIXING THE 2015 VERSION.




WHICH SOMEBODY CAN GOOGLE THE HISTORY ON IT AND SEE WHY IT

WAS CREATED AND THE ORIGIN OF THAT WAS A STORY BY THE TIMES,

AND THE COMMUNITY WAS UPSET ABOUT IT AND THEY SAID WE NEEDED

SAFEGUARDS.

AND THE REASON WHY THERE'S A DISCUSSION ABOUT BALANCE OF

POWER NOW, IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS ADMINISTRATION BUT WHAT

HAPPENS IF WE GET ADMINISTRATION IN THE FUTURE THAT

SOMETHING LIKE BIKING WHILE BLACK HOW DO WE KNOW THE PUBLIC

IS PROTECTED?

AND THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD IS NOT JUST BECAUSE A CITY

COUNCIL MEMBER APPOINTS SOMEBODY DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE PRO

OR AGAINST THE POLICE.

THEY ARE GOING TO PICK SOMEBODY WHO REPRESENTS THE BROAD

CROSS SECTION OF THE COMMUNITY.

I THINK THE MAJORITY OF MY CONSTITUENTS ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE

OF THE POLICE.

SO IF I APPOINT SOMEBODY THAT HATED THE POLICE I WOULD GET

THROWN OUT OF OFFICE FOR THAT.

SO IT'S JUST ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT IT REPRESENTS THE

PUBLIC, THE MAYOR, WHOEVER THAT IS, IS ONE PERSON WHO

REPRESENTS, AND WE ARE SEVEN PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT A

CONSTITUENCY.

THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT THIS PROCESS TODAY IS THAT

WE AND THE PUBLIC, MAINLY THE PUBLIC GOT THIS INFORMATION

LAST SECOND.




TODAY THERE'S SOME NEW LEGAL ARGUMENTS BEING ARGUED.

THERE'S ONE THAT WAS JUST ARGUED THAT I NEVER HEARD BEFORE.

WE ASKED OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT THE CHARTER ISSUES BE

HANDLED BEHIND THE SCENES SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS ARGUE

NUMBER PUBLIC.

I THINK THAT BESIDES US GETTING THE DOCUMENTS AT THE LAST

MINUTE WE ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN BRIEFED ON THESE ISSUES SO WE

COULD HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT BEFORE WE WALKED IN.

WE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANOTHER TWO AND A HALF HOUR

CONVERSATION.

THE PUBLIC IS NOT EVEN WEIGHING IN ON IT.

AT THE END OF THIS, OUR CHOICES, I THINK, REALLY ARE WE HAVE

GOT TO DEFER IT SO WE CAN WORK OUT THE CHART CHARTER IRONS

WHICH WE ASKED IT BE RESOLVED MONTHS AGO AND APPARENTLY NOT

BEEN RESOLVED, WE ASKED THOSE TO BE RESOLVED, THEY ARE NOT

RESOLVED.

ONE OF THE ISSUES WAS THAT WE HAD ASKED FOR THIS TO

SUPERSEDE THE OLD ONE, AND NOW APPARENTLY THE ONE VERSION WE

HAVE ON THE TABLE CANNOT SUPERSEDE, WHICH I JUST LEARNED

I.DIDN'T REALIZE THAT IN READING THE DOCUMENTS.

AND SO WHAT I THINK IS WE NEED -- INSTEAD OF HAVING ANOTHER

TWO HOURS OF CONVERSATION WE SHOULD VOTE TO EITHER CONTINUE

IT SO THAT WE CAN WORK OUT THE CHARTER ISSUES OR WE SHOULD

JUST DO UP OR DOWN ON EACH ISSUE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ISSUES NOW.




THANK YOU.

02:18:04 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA AND MR. MIRANDA.

02:18:07 >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

YOU WANTED TO POINT OUT, I GUESS FOR FUTURE, CHIEF DUGAN WAS

SPEAKING.

I ALWAYS THINK THAT ANY SPEAKER, COULD BE CHIEF DUGAN, COULD

BE GINA GRIMES, COULD BE ANYBODY, THAT WHEN QUESTIONS ARISE

DURING A PERSON'S SPEAKING, IT KIND OF GETS US A LITTLE, I

DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD OFF TOPIC BUT GETS US NOT FOCUSED

WHERE WE SHOULD BE.

I AM GOING TO USE THE WORD AGAIN, ESCALATION.

I HAVE USED THAT A LOT TODAY.

I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE.

WE AGREE ON 80 OR 90% OF THE ISSUES.

YOU EVEN LOOK AT WHO GETS TO APPOINT MEMBERS.

THE SEVEN TO FOUR SPLIT I VOTED NO ON THAT.

THE REASON I VOTED NO ON THAT IS BECAUSE A NUMBER OF THINGS,

CHIEFLY, I DON'T SEE A PATHWAY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

PRESENTLY SERVING ON THE BOARD TO BE REAPPOINTED BY WHOEVER

IS GOING TO REFINE THEM, AND I DON'T SEE THAT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S THE PROPER WAY TO DO.

YOU KNOW, TAKING A LOOK AT HAVING THAT 11th APPOINTMENT

UNDER A 6 TO 5 SPLIT CONFIRMED BY CITY COUNCIL GIVES US A

MAJORITY OF THE APPOINTMENTS.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.




THAT'S OBVIOUSLY PROGRESS.

BUT AGAIN, WE AGREE ON 80 OR 90% OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE

BEFORE US.

YOU AGREE WITH COUNCILMAN CARLSON, WHICH IS WE OUGHT TO VOTE

ON THESE THINGS TODAY.

I DO NOT, ABSENT SOME ISSUE THAT COMES OUT OF LEFT FIELD, A

CONTINUES ANSWER ON THIS TODAY?

I THINK WOULD BE LACKING UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

WE SHOULD VOTE UP OR DOWN.

AND AGAIN, WE AGREE ON VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE ISSUES.

AND ON THE ISSUE OF THE APPOINTMENTS AND THE MAJORITY, I

THINK WE AGREE ON PRINCIPLE.

IT'S A MATTER OF THE PROPER IMPLEMENTATION IN MY OPINION.

BUT JUST MY THOUGHTS.

02:20:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MIRANDA.

02:20:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE.

I LISTENED, AND WE ARE SO CLOSE, AND YET SO FAR.

AND BEING FAR AND CLOSE BEING THE SAME.

THAT MEANS YOU AIN'T COMING TO NO CONCLUSION.

I SAID IT EARLIER.

I SAID IT AGAIN, WHOEVER GETS, APPEAL TO THE COURT AND LET

THE COURT DECIDE ON ITEM D.

THAT'S WHAT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER.

THAT CAUSED ALL THIS ITEM.

I THINK THERE WERE SEVEN WORDS AFTER THE FIRST INTERIM AND I




FORGOT WHAT THE WORDS SAID BUT IT ENDED WITH A PERIOD BEFORE

THE SENTENCE RAN OUT, AND THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THAT

PARAGRAPH, AND THOSE ARE THE WORDS THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT

NOW.

AND I APOLOGIZE BECAUSE I DIDN'T LOOK AT IT LONG ENOUGH TO

MEMORIZE IT.

SO THOSE ARE THE WORDS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE, MR. SHELBY AND

MRS. GRIMES, PRESENT, NOT AS OPPOSITION, ONE VIEW AND

ANOTHER VIEW, SIMPLY ON THE ITEMS THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER

TODAY.

AND LET THE JUDGE DECIDE, BECAUSE IF NOT, THIS IS GOING TO

CARRY ON FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER, 2015, WHETHER THIS MAYOR

OR THE NEXT MAYOR, THESE THINGS WILL BE EATING AWAY AT THIS

CITY OF OVER 400,000 PEOPLE AND THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GOING

TO SUFFER.

SO I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS CLUB TORN IN HALF.

I DON'T WANT TO BE WASHINGTON, D.C.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

02:21:34 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. BENNETT.

02:21:45 >>JOHN BENNETT:
CHIEF OF STAFF.

I JUST WANT TO TALK FROM THE LENS OF THE ADMINISTRATION FOR

A MINUTE.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE TIMELINES.

WE ALL KNOW WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THOSE POINTS IN THE




CONVERSATION.

WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH SOME VERY TOUGH THINGS FROM TWO YEARS

AGO, WORKED VERY HARD TO GET THEM DONE.

WE LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY.

WE LISTENED TO THE UNION.

WE LISTENED TO THE ACLU.

WE LISTENED TO COUNCIL.

WE LISTENED TO CONSTITUENTS.

THERE ARE 64 POLICE CALLS AN HOUR GOING ON OUT THERE.

64 AN HOUR.

THAT'S MORE THAN ONE A MINUTE.

THAT THOSE OFFICERS ARE MAKING DECISIONS ON.

THEY NEED SOME CLOSURE REGARDLESS OF THE REST OF THE JOURNEY

IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION AFTER DOING THIS FOR 30 YEARS.

I HAVE INVESTIGATED OFFICERS.

I TRAINED OFFICERS.

I HAVE COACHED OFFICERS.

I HAVE DISCIPLINED THEM, TERMINATED THEM, BROUGHT THEM BACK

TO WORK, REJUVENATED THEIR CAREERS, I HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THE

COUNTRY CHANGING POLICY, LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTION PROGRAM

DOING POLICE REFORM AROUND THE WORLD, NOT JUST IN THE UNITED

STATES.

I HAVE SEEN THIS.

I HAVE BEEN AN INSTRUCTOR IN EVERY SINGLE FACETS OF THE

EMPLOYING POLICE OFFICERS THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE.




THAT 80% THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I WILL USE COUNCILMAN

VIERA'S POINTS ON THAT REAL QUICK, THAT WAS 80% FROM WHERE

WE WERE.

SO IT'S TRULY FROM ZERO TO 80, NOT JUST 80 WITHIN THE ACTUAL

OPPORTUNITY TO PASS WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION THINKS IS A

REALLY BIG LEAP IN PROGRESS.

I HAVE SEEN MODEL POLICIES FROM THE INTERNATIONAL

ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE.

I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE ACCREDITATION PROCESS.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT WORKING WITH THE

ACLU, THE UNION, COUNCIL, CONSTITUENTS, USF, ACADEMIC SIDE,

I HAVE PUT TOGETHER A MODEL, AN ABSOLUTE MODEL CRB PLAN

GOING FORWARD.

ARE THERE A FEW THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT OVER TIME

THAT THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T FEEL SHOULD GO ACROSS?

AND I WANT TO POINT OUT TO COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S COMMENTS, I

HAVE TALKED TO SEVERAL OF YOU ABOUT WHAT MS. URSULA JUST

TALKED ABOUT, RIP AND REPLACE.

THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO COUNCIL THAT WE HAD A NEW

FOUNDATION.

THAT NEW FOUNDATION IS PUT IN FRONT OF YOU ABSENT OF THOSE

THINGS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION THINKS DOES NOT NEED TO BE IN

THE VERSION THAT WAS ISSUED IN MAY BUT BACK IN FEBRUARY, AND

THAT LIST IS A TREMENDOUS LEAP OF PROGRESS WITHIN THE CRB,

AND THOSE OFFICERS AND THOSE CITIZENS THAT ARE RECEIVING




POLICE SERVICE DESERVE CLOSURE TODAY.

AND THAT'S HOW I AM GOING TO LEAVE IT.

02:24:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU, MR. BENNETT.

WE ALL APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE, OF COURSE THE CHIEF'S

SERVICE, AND ALL OF TPD.

WE APPRECIATE MRS. GRIMES.

MRS. GRIMES, I KNOW YOU PUT YOUR HEART INTO THIS AS WELL AS

URSULA, MS. RICHARDSON.

WE APPRECIATE YOU, TOO.

I GO FURTHER THAN 80%, MR. VIERA.

I WOULD SAY WE ARE 99%.

AND AS OF TWO MONTHS AGO, IN FEBRUARY, MAYBE LONGER THAN TWO

MONTHS AGO, COUNCIL SAID WE ARE DONE, WE ARE DONE.

VOTED 6 TO 1, AND WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION ALREADY.

WE VOTED 6 TO 1.

AND FRANKLY, I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING UNTIL YESTERDAY

AFTERNOON THAT ANYBODY IN THE ADMINISTRATION HAD A PROBLEM

WITH IT.

NOT A PEEP.

HOW MANY DAYS HAVE GONE BY SINCE THAT VOTE UNTIL YESTERDAY

AT 4:00 IN THE AFTERNOON?

I'M NOT GOING TO REHASH EVERYTHING.

I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE.

I JUST THINK THAT WE VOTED 6 TO 1 TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS

TREMENDOUS ORDINANCE, THAT IS A BIG IMPROVEMENT OF OVER




WHERE WE WERE BEFORE, AND IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ALL WORK

WITH TOGETHER, INCLUDING THIS FINE MAYOR.

AND I HOPE THAT SHE'S OKAY WITH IT.

BUT WITH THAT I AM GOING TO MOVE THAT WE ADOPT AND PASS THE

ORDINANCE TODAY, FOR FIRST READING, THAT INCLUDES THE

EXHIBIT A THAT MRS. GRIMES GAVE US, AND I AM GOING TO

PROVIDE THIS FOR THE CLERK, AND IF COUNCIL NEEDS COPY, THE

CLERK CAN MAKE A COPY, THE EXHIBIT A THAT WE VOTED ON 6 TO 1

THAT INCLUDES COUNCIL HAVING SEVEN VOTES, ONE EACH, AND THE

COVER DOCUMENT WHICH IS THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE, AND THE

DESCRIPTION, WHICH HAS TWO WHEREAS CLAUSES, AND MS. GRIMES

PROVIDED ME THIS AS WELL.

SO I AM GOING TO GIVE THIS TO THE CLERK.

AND THAT'S MY MOTION.

02:26:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. DINGFELDER, MAY I JUST ASK, IS THAT A

CLEAN COPY FOR THE CLERK, THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE WORDS ON

THEM?

02:26:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THE WORD WHAT?

02:26:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DRAFT.

02:26:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THERE'S NO WORD DRAFT ON THERE.

THERE'S A CLEAN COPY WITH NONE OF MY HANDWRITING OR

ANYTHING.

02:26:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.

02:27:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT --

02:27:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WELL, I HAVE A QUESTION.




I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN.

AND THIS IS I GUESS PROCEDURAL.

02:27:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WAIT A SECOND.

LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET A SECOND.

02:27:19 >> SECOND.

02:27:21 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER'S MOTION.

MR. CARLSON SECOND.

I WANT TO GO TO MR. SHELBY FIRST AND THEN MR. MANISCALCO.

02:27:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
PROCEDURAL QUESTION.

THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS PRESENTED DID NOT HAVE AN ATTACHMENT

WITH IT.

YET THERE IS A SIGNATURE LINE ON THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS AS

TO LEGAL SUFFICIENCY, ALIGN FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY.

02:27:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THEY SIGN IT LATER.

02:27:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
BUT MY QUESTION IS, SHE PREPARED THIS

PURSUANT TO COUNCIL'S MOTION.

02:27:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
RIGHT.

02:27:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THE QUESTION IS, IF IT'S HER POSITION THAT

IT SHOULD BE THAT ONE AND NOT THE OTHER ONE, FOR CHARTER

REASONS, THE QUESTION IS, IS IT --

02:28:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
NO, NO, MR. SHELBY.

PLEASE DON'T TAKE US DOWN THAT ROAD.

02:28:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHOA, WHOA.

ORDER.

02:28:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M SORRY.




02:28:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HE.

02:28:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HE HAS THE FLOOR.

YOU CAN GIVE DIRECTION ON WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING MR. SHELBY

HAS THE FLOOR.

02:28:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER RAISED A VERY

INTERESTING POINT BECAUSE HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW BEGUN THIS

UNTIL YESTERDAY.

AND HE DID REFERENCE THE FACT THAT THIS ISSUE WAS AN ISSUE

FROM COUNCIL'S VOTE ON FEBRUARY 25th.

NOW, AS TO COUNCIL'S ABILITY TO SUPERSEDE THIS ORDINANCE AND

RESOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN 2015, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY

EXCELLENT SOLUTION.

AND SOLVED A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

AND YET TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME, AS WE ARE SITTING HERE

NOW, I AM HEARING THE FACT THAT THERE ARE BASES IN THE

CHARTER THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU

SUPERSEDE IT OR NOT.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT WITHOUT THE MAYOR UNLESS THE CITY

ATTORNEY IS GOING TO GO ON THE RECORD AND SAY THAT'S THE

CASE.

I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE IN YOUR NEW ORDINANCE.

NEW ORDINANCE CREATES AN ANNUAL REPORT.

AND EVERYBODY WANTS THE ANNUAL REPORT.

WELL, HERE IS MY QUESTION TO YOU, COUNCIL.

WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AND YOUR ABILITY TO RESPOND AS A




LEGISLATIVE BODY TO SOMETHING IN THE ANNUAL REPORT?

ARE YOU PRECLUDED FROM DOING ANYTHING UNLESS YOU GET PRIOR

APPROVAL OF WHATEVER MAYOR OR FUTURE COUNCIL HAS TO GET THE

PRIOR APPROVAL OF WHATEVER MAYOR BASED ON THE OPINION OF THE

CITY ATTORNEY?

SO BASICALLY YOU HAVE AN ANNUAL REPORT, YOU A FUTURE COUNCIL

MAY RAISE AN ISSUE AND YET YOU WILL HAVE A CONSTANT OPINION

THAT SAYS YOU HAVE NO POWER TO CHANGE IT UNLESS THE MAYOR

GIVES YOU PRIOR APPROVAL.

BELIEVE ME, I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AS I SIT HERE

TODAY HAD I NOT HEARD THIS ISSUE FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I AM JUST CONCERNED.

YOU CAN PASS IT, COUNCIL.

BUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS PROBABLY HAVING THE SAME LEGAL

EFFECT AS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PRIOR COUNCIL IN 2015 AND

THAT'S WHY YOU FEIGNED YOURSELVES WHERE YOU ARE TODAY IT.

02:30:14 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. DINGFELDER.

02:30:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
MR. SHELBY, I AM GOING TO QUOTE THE

CHIEF RIGHT NOW AND SAY SOMETIMES WE NEED SOME FINALLY AT,

OKAY?

THIS MOTION ON THE FLOOR, LEGAL COUNCIL HANDED US A DOCUMENT

PURSUANT TO OUR MOTION, OKAY.

I THINK WE SHOULD VOTE ON IT.

HOPEFULLY IT WILL PASS.

IF IT PASSES, AND LEGAL COUNSEL DOESN'T WANT TO SIGN IT,




THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE, OKAY.

I DON'T THINK THAT REMOVES ITS FUNCTION BECAUSE APPARENTLY

DIDN'T GET SIGNED FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO EITHER.

BUT IT'S BEEN LAW EVER SINCE.

IF YOU LOOK IT UP ON MUNI CODE IT'S THERE.

BUT THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE.

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION ON WHAT MRS.

GRIMES MIGHT DO OR MIGHT NOT DO, THE SAME WAY IN REGARD TO

THE MAYOR WHO I RESPECT TREMENDOUSLY.

WHEN SHE GETS THIS ORDINANCE, IF WE APPROVE THAT TODAY, WHEN

SHE GETS IT, I GUESS SHE HAS TWO CHOICES, THREE CHOICES, I

GUESS, OR TWO CHOICES, I GUESS.

SHE SIGNS IT, AND IT GOES INTO LAW.

SHEET DOESN'T SIGN IT, IT GOES INTO LAW, OR SHE VETOS IT.

THREE CHOICES.

BUT THAT'S HER PREROGATIVE.

WE ALL HAVE PREROGATIVES.

THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF OUR SYSTEM.

WE ARE THE LEGISLATIVE BODY.

WE ARE ABOUT TO VOTE ON SOMETHING.

LET -- PLEASE LET US VOTE ON IT, MR. SHELBY.

WE CAN LOOK AT ALL THE WHAT-IFS FROM HERE UNTIL ETERNITY AND

MR. MIRANDA AND I WILL GET OLDER AND OLDER.

02:31:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM ALREADY OLD.

YOU ARE GETTING OLDER.




02:31:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
BUT LET US PLEASE VOTE ON THIS.

LET'S NOT LOOK AT ALL THE WHAT-IFS.

OTHERWISE WE WILL BE HEAR ANOTHER YEAR.

LET'S JUST VOTE ON THIS.

AND THE WHAT-IFS WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.

02:31:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MRS. GRIMES?

I DO HAVE A QUESTION.

YOUR CONCERN AND MR. SHELBY'S CONCERN.

02:32:06 >>GINA GRIMES:
I WANTED TO SAY THAT THE EXAMPLE I DON'T KNOW

IS ACCURATE SINCE THE ANNUAL REPORT REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN IN

THERE SINCE 2015.

SO THE ISSUE THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH IS NOT -- WE HAVE DONE

THE BEST JOB THAT WE CAN TO GIVE YOU EVERYTHING THAT YOU

WANTED, ESPECIALLY YOU, MR. DINGFELDER.

WE HAVE BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO TRY TO ACCOMMODATE EVERY

REQUEST THAT YOU HAVE MADE.

AND MR. CARLSON, THE RIBBON REPLACE PROPOSAL WAS DONE TO

ELIMINATE ALL THE HARD FEELINGS FROM THE 2015 CREATION OF

THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.

BUT AGAIN, THIS ORDINANCE REQUIRES THE COOPERATION OF BOTH

THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE BRANCH, AND I

DON'T KNOW WHY THAT HAS CREATED SUCH A STIR, SUCH A

CONTROVERSY, WITH YOU.

YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF IT THAT YOU HAVE WORKED TOGETHER, AND

THAT YOU HAVE A PRODUCT LIKE THIS, THAT I CAN ASSURE YOU NO




OTHER CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD HAS.

SO WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT, THE COMPROMISE WOULD BE THE FIVE

FIVE ONE, THE FEBRUARY PROPOSAL.

02:33:23 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, FUR GOING TO SAY SOMETHING --

MR. SHELBY.

02:33:32 >>GINA GRIMES:
WE COULD BE HERE FOR ANOTHER WEEK ARGUING.

02:33:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CITRO.

I CAN'T SEE YOU.

YOU HAVE TO SIT UP A LITTLE BIT.

02:33:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I AM NOT ITCHING TO SAY ANYTHING.

I AM JUST ITCHING.

02:33:51 >>BILL CARLSON:
BY THE WAY, IN TERMS OF SCHEDULE, I HAVE

GOT A GUEST IN TOWN WHO HAS ONLY A FEW MONTHS TO LIVE BY

CANCER AND I WANT TO SPEND THIS AFTERNOON WITH HIM SO I AM

NOT GOING TO STAY HERE FOREVER.

DESPITE THIS SPARRING BACK AND FORTH, I WANT TO LET MRS.

GRIMES KNOW AND HER TEAM KNOW AND THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT I

PERSONALLY APPRECIATE IT, I KNOW THE COMMUNITY APPRECIATES

ALL THE TIME THAT SHE PUT IN TO NEGOTIATE ALL THESE

DIFFERENT GROUPS.

AND I SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT ON A DAY THE MAYOR PRESENTED HER

VERSION A FEW MONTHS AGO, MRS. GRIMES CONTINUED WITH THE

MAYOR'S DIRECTION, CONTINUED WITH MEETING WITH THE COMMUNITY

TO TRY TO MODIFY IT AND MAKE IT BETTER.

I THINK THE TIME THAT WE HAVE ALL TAKEN IN THIS IS GOOD.




I AM DISAPPOINTED THAT SOME THINGS HAVE COME UP IN THE LAST

MINUTE AND THESE ISSUES HAVE ALL BEEN OUT THERE, SOME OF

THEM HAVE BEEN OUT THERE AND WE SHOULD HAVE DEALT WITH THEM

EARLIER AND HIT THEM HEAD ON INSTEAD OF DEFERRING THEM

MAYBE.

BUT JUST A CLARIFYING QUESTION, MRS. GRIMES.

THE BRICK AND REPLACE IS NOT IN THE VERSION WE JUST VOTED

ON, IS THAT CORRECT?

02:35:13 >>GINA GRIMES:
IT IS.

THE MOTION THAT MR. DINGFELDER HAS IN HIS HAND, WHICH IS THE

ORDINANCE WITH THE MAY VERSION OF THE CODE, THAT IS

REQUESTED, IT WOULD SUPERSEDE THE 2015 ORDINANCE.

02:35:29 >>BILL CARLSON:
I THANK YOU FOR PUTTING ALL OF THAT IN

THERE.

02:35:34 >>GINA GRIMES:
HOW FAR, AS I SAID, AND I SAID BACK IN

SEPTEMBER THERE, WAS A PowerPoint, I REMEMBER, ALSO

MENTIONED THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AND HOW THAT WAS A FOLLOW-UP

ITEM.

THIS ORDINANCE REQUIRES THE MAYOR TO ISSUE AN EXECUTIVE

ORDER AUTHORIZING THIS LEGISLATION DIRECTING THE AFFAIRS OF

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

IT DOES.

IT REQUIRES THAT.

AND SO IF SHE OBJECTS TO THE SEVEN FOUR AS OPPOSED TO THE

FIVE FIVE ONE, THEN THAT EXECUTIVE ORDER WOULD NOT BE




ISSUED, AND THE PROVISIONS IN THE ORDINANCE DEALING WITH

DIRECTING THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD NOT BE

EFFECTIVE, THE ORDINANCE NEEDS THAT COMPANION EXECUTIVE

ORDER.

THAT COMPANION EXECUTIVE ORDER ALSO REPLACES AND SUPERSEDES

THE 20150 EXECUTIVE ORDER.

WITH THE COMPROMISE, 2015 IS GONE AND IT'S ALREADY REPLACED

WITH THIS NEW LEGISLATION.

02:36:31 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MANISCALCO.

02:36:36 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO BASICALLY WHAT'S HOLDING THIS UP IS

WHO APPOINTS HOW MANY MEMBERS.

THAT'S IT.

OTHER THAN THAT, IT IS CORRECT THAT'S REALLY THE BIG

DIFFERENCE HERE, RIGHT?

02:36:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

02:36:46 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I HAD THE PLEASURE OF BEING ON CITY

COUNCIL SINCE 2015 WHEN THE BICYCLE ARTICLE CAME OUT AND ALL

THAT, AND I REMEMBER THE QUOTE THAT I SAID, AND IT WAS, IT'S

2015 BUT IT FEELS LIKE 1965.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE THAT QUOTE.

FINE.

SO GOING INTO THAT WAS THE CALL TO HAVE THE CITIZENS REVIEW

BOARD, AND I REMEMBER THOSE MEETINGS, I REMEMBER PEOPLE IN

THE PUBLIC SHOUTING DOWN COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT WE WOULD HAVE

TO TAKE A RECESS.




I REMEMBER MAYOR BUCKHORN PUSHING BACK ON HOW MANY PEOPLE

APPOINT HOW MANY POSITIONS ON THE BOARD.

I REMEMBER HIM CALLING ME.

I WAS IN WEST TAMPA ONE DAY ASKING, WHAT ABOUT THIS, WHAT

ABOUT THAT?

I REMEMBER ONE A I WAS CHANGING BEFORE A NIGHT MEETING AND I

CALLED THE MAYOR TO SEE IF I COULD MEET WITH HIM PERSONALLY

ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND HE WAS GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO TELL ME THAT

MY DOOR IS OPEN IF YOU COME RIGHT OVER.

I HAVE ALWAYS TRADE TO BE A PEACEMAKER, TRY TO FIND THE

MIDDLE GROUND TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, AND I WAS ABLE,

WHETHER IT WAS ME, WHETHER IT WAS OTHER POWERS THAT BE,

MAYOR BUCKHORN MOVED A LITTLE BIT ON HOW MANY APPOINTMENTS

AND WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BOARD.

SO WE MOVED FORWARD WITH THE CREATION OF THE BOARD, BUT FAST

FORWARD TO 2020 UNTIL NOW, SEVEN MEETINGS, SIX MEETINGS,

WITH DIFFERENT CHANGES TO WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON THE BOARD

AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE MAKEUP AND WHATNOT.

I HAVE OFTEN SAID IT'S OKAY TO BE SCARED, JUST DON'T BE

AFRAID.

AND WHEN IT COMES TO POINTING SEVEN MEMBERS BY CITY COUNCIL

MEMBERS, CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, ALL SEVEN OF US ARE ENTRUSTED

BY THE PEOPLE AND ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

WE MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING RIGHT BECAUSE EACH OF US GOT

ENOUGH VOTES TO BE PUT ON THIS CITY COUNCIL AND HAVE EARNED




THE PUBLIC'S TRUST.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING -- I MEAN, WE APPOINT

MEMBERS TO OTHER BOARDS, AND WE APPOINT GOOD PEOPLE BECAUSE

I SEE WHO APPOINTS -- I KNOW MANY OF THEM AND I KNOW DEEP

THOUGHT GOES INTO WHO WE APPOINT TO THESE BOARDS.

WE APPOINT PEOPLE THAT WE TRUST, THAT WE KNOW THE PUBLIC CAN

TRUST.

SO IF THIS IS WHAT'S HOLDING EVERYTHING UP, I MEAN, IT'S

AGAIN, IT'S OKAY TO BE SCARED, JUST DON'T BE AFRAID.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS NOT GOING TO BE DISMANTLED.

THE CITY IS NOT GOING TO FALL APART.

WHAT'S GOING TO CAUSE IT TO FALL APART IS THE CONTINUED

FIGHTING AND DISCUSSION AND BACK AND FORTH AND THE MAYOR AND

THE CITY COUNCIL AND WHATNOT.

I RESPECT THE MAYOR VERY, VERY MUCH.

I THINK SHE DOES A VERY GOOD JOB.

I RESPECT YOU AS CHIEF OF STAFF AND THE ENTIRE LEGAL

DEPARTMENT.

I TRUST WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND I ALSO TRUST WHAT THE

CHARTER HAS TO SAY.

BUT IF THIS IS ALL THAT'S HOLDING US UP, AND WE CAN PUT THIS

TO A CLOSE AND FINAL CONCLUSION TODAY, JUST THE

APPOINTMENTS.

THIS IS SO SIMPLE AND WE CAN PUT THIS TO BED AND MOVE

FORWARD AND THAT'S IT.




AND COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, IF I UNDERSTAND IT, THIS IS THE

MOTION THAT YOU HAVE MADE REGARDING -- THAT'S IT.

NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBPOENA POWERS AND OUTSIDE COUNSEL.

JUST TALKING ABOUT APPOINTMENTS BY CITY COUNCIL.

I THINK IT'S FAIR.

WE HAVE SEVEN ELECTED CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, ONE MAYOR.

THE PEOPLE ELECTED US LIKE THAT.

THAT'S HOW IT'S DRAWN UP IN THIS CITY.

WHY CAN'T WE JUST MAKE THOSE SAME APPOINTMENTS ON THIS

BOARD?

I HAVE GRAPPLED, STRUGGLED WITH THIS FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS

TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT'S SO SCARY ABOUT IT?

SEVEN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS APPOINT SEVEN INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE

ON THIS BOARD.

I CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT WHAT'S SO SCARY ABOUT IT.

SO I WILL STONE THERE.

THANK YOU.

02:40:18 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I CAN TELL YOU THIS, MR. MANISCALCO, WHAT

IT IS.

IT'S POWER.

POWER.

POWER AND FEAR LIKE YOU SAID

YOU HAVE TO REALIZE HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, HOW IT WORKS.




BEEN WITH THE CITY A LONG TIME.

WE WERE ENTRUSTED BY THE PUBLIC.

I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ALL NIGHT LONG.

ON A PHONE CALL I GOT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, THE PHONE

CALLS I GOT FROM ACLU, THOSE PEOPLE.

WE ARE ENTRUSTED TO PUT PEOPLE ON BOARDS WHO WE FEEL CAN DO

A JOB, THE RIGHT JOB.

BUT I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WHOLE ORDINANCE.

WE ARE INTERTWINING ADMINISTRATION ALONG WITH AUTHORITY TO

LEGISLATIVE.

I AM GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S GOING TO COME BACK TO PROBABLY

BITE US DOWN THE ROAD MAYBE LATER ON BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO

HAVE A BALANCE OF WHAT IT IS, AND THE SCALE IS NOT BALANCED.

IT'S NOT.

UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OFF BALANCE.

AND WE HAVE GOT TO MOVE FORWARD TODAY.

THE OTHER THINGS WE CAN DEAL WITH ANOTHER TIME DOWN THE

ROAD.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO PUT IT TO BED, PUT A MOTION ON THE

FLOOR, AND MR. DINGFELDER I BELIEVE WAS SECONDED BY MR.

CARLSON, I BELIEVE, TO MOVE FORWARD.

THE ORIGINAL LAST MOTION, THE 7-4 CHARTER REVIEW BOARD WITH

A 6 TO 1 VOTE LAST TIME.

MR. VIERA, I RECOGNIZE YOUR HAND.

AND THEN I WILL END IT.




02:42:12 >>LUIS VIERA:
I WANT TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE AGAIN ON THIS.

THE SAME AS LAST TIME.

WE ARE GOING DOWN A PROCEDURE, AND AGAIN, LET'S -- IT'S

FUNNY THAT COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER, OUR FRIEND, INCREASED MY

80% TO 99%.

THAT'S RIGHT, WE AGREE ON 99, 98% WHATEVER IT IS ON THIS

NARROWLY TAILORED ISSUE.

THERE IS NO PROPER PROCESS FOR MEMBERS WHO SERVED ON THERE

FOR A VERY LONG TIME, IN TERMS OF REAPPOINTMENT, IN TERMS OF

HAVING A PROPER PROCEDURE FOR THEIR SERVICE.

THAT'S MY OBJECTION.

AND IN ESSENCE WITH THIS ORDINANCE, WE ARE NOT VOTING ON THE

WHOLE ORDINANCE BECAUSE I THINK 100% OF US WOULD EITHER VOTE

FOR A OR B.

WE ARE VOTING ON THIS SPLIT, AND THE ISSUES THAT I AM

TALKING ABOUT.

WE ARE CREATING COMMON GROUND ON A LOT OF THESE ISSUES, BUT

I FEAR THAT IF WE GET SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO END UP

BEING VETOED OR NOT, IMPLEMENTED, THEN WE ARE GOING TO GIVE

UP THAT 99% THAT'S GOING TO BE GOOD FOR THAT 1 OR 5%.

THAT'S MY CONCERN.

BUT AGAIN I WANT TO BE CLEAR, I SUPPORT THIS ORDINANCE, I

SUPPORT WITH MOVING FORWARD, BUT AGAIN JUST LIKE I SAID LAST

TIME, I STILL PUT MY SAME RATIONALE IN TERMS OF THE

PROCEDURE OF THE APPOINTMENTS, ET CETERA, THAT I THINK COULD




HAVE CONSEQUENCES THAT THIS VERY COLLEGIAL BODY DOES NOT

INTEND TO HAVE.

THANK YOU.

02:43:43 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MRS. GRIMES, WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE IF WE

VOTED IN THE NEW APPOINTMENTS?

HOW WOULD THAT WORK?

LET'S CLEAR IT UP FOR ME.

02:44:01 >>GINA GRIMES:
IF YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MAY VERSION?

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE ASKING?

02:44:06 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

7-4, 6-1 VOTE.

02:44:12 >>GINA GRIMES:
THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE TO STUDY WHETHER OR NOT

SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO USUAL YOU AN EXECUTIVE ORDER

AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTIVES AND REQUIREMENTS IN THAT

VERSION --

02:44:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION, GINA

WITH, ALL DUE RESPECT.

HE'S REFERRING TO LUIS' CONCERN ABOUT HOW THOSE INDIVIDUAL

BOARD MEMBERS GET PICKED.

02:44:31 >>GINA GRIMES:
THE WAY THAT IT WOULD BE HANDLED IS

VACANCIES OCCURRED, THE NEW COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS WOULD BE

MADE.

02:44:40 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
AS VACANCIES OCCUR.

02:44:43 >>GINA GRIMES:
RATE NOW IT'S A 5-4.

5 MAYORAL APPOINTMENTS, 4 COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS.




UNDER THE NEW PROPOSAL, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT 7-7-4 BECAUSE

WE CHANGED THE ALTERNATES TO FOUR BOARD MEMBERS SO THERE'S

ELEVEN MEMBERS.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S ONLY NINE.

SO YOU HAVE TWO MORE APPOINTMENTS THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO

MAKE.

AND AS VACANCIES BECOME OPEN, AS VACANCIES OCCUR, THEN YOU

WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE TWO MORE APPOINTMENTS.

02:45:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
DOES THAT SATISFY YOU, MR. VIERA?

02:45:18 >>LUIS VIERA:
[OFF MICROPHONE] IT DOESN'T QUITE, I STILL

DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH SPECIFICITY THERE.

AGAIN, LET'S TAKE A VOTE, MOVE ON.

AGAIN, WE HAVE THAT 90%, 99%, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, THRESHOLD.

02:45:36 >>GINA GRIMES:
AND THE OTHER THING I DID WANT TO MENTION,

YOU HAVE FOUR BOARD MEMBERS THAT YOU CAN APPOINT RIGHT NOW,

AND UNDER THE FIVE FIVE ONE PROPOSAL FROM BACK FROM

FEBRUARY, YOU WOULD STILL GET TWO ADDITIONAL APPOINTMENTS.

YOU WOULD STILL GET TWO ADDITIONAL.

YOU WOULD GET THE NAACP APPOINTMENT AND ONE ADDITIONAL

APPOINTMENT.

SO YOU ARE IN THE VIRTUALLY IN THE SAME POSITION.

IT'S JUST A DIFFERENCE OF YOU END UP UNDER THE FEBRUARY

VERSION WITH THE MAYOR AND THE ADMINISTRATION SUPPORTS, YOU

END UP WITH ONE LESS APPOINTEES.

ONE LESS APPOINTEE.




THAT'S IT.

02:46:16 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CITRO, THEN WE CAN WRAP THIS UP.

02:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
ONE LEFT FOR ME AND I AM FINISHED.

WHEN I READ THE ORDINANCE YOU SAID IT COMES OUT THE SAME

WHEN IT'S FIVE FIVE ONE BUT UNITS UNDER THE ORDINANCE THAT'S

PRESENTED HERE FROM WHAT I PERSONALLY READ QUICK, IT'S FOUR

SEVEN.

BUT IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY WHO APPOINT IT IS PERSON

FROM THAN THE NAACP WHICH IS A NECESSITY.

IT DOESN'T SAY SPECIFICALLY, IF IT'S ONE OF THE MAYOR'S OR

ONE OF THE COUNCIL'S.

02:46:50 >>GINA GRIMES:
IN THE SEVEN FOUR PROPOSAL IN N I BELIEVE IT

SAYS IT'S UNDER THE MAYOR'S.

02:46:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SO THEN THE MAYOR HAS NOT FIVE.

SHE HAS ONE LESS.

02:47:04 >>GINA GRIMES:
LET ME DOUBLE CHECK IT.

02:47:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE SEVEN -- THE

WHOLE THING IS THE SEVEN WORDS ON THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH OF D.

THAT'S MY ONLY OBJECTION TO EVERYTHING.

THE SEVEN WORDS ON D AND THE FIRST SENTENCE OF D.

READ THOSE.

02:47:28 >>GINA GRIMES:
OF EXHIBIT A?

02:47:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM NOT LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE.

WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT --

02:47:33 >>GINA GRIMES:
OH, YES, THE SEPARATION OF POWER?




EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE EXPRESSLY PROVIDED.

YOU HAVE BROAD LEGISLATIVE POWERS EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE

EXPRESSLY PROVIDED AND WITH RESPECT TO THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT, YOU DO NOT HAVE LEGISLATIVE POWER.

02:47:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

02:47:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
CAN I READ, CHARLIE, THIS PROVISION?

DO YOU MIND?

OKAY.

IT SAYS, MOVING D-1, ON THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE FLOOR, IT

SAYS THE CRB SHALL HEREINAFTER CONSIST OF ELEVEN MEMBERS

WITH FOUR VOTING MEMBERS APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR, ONE OF

WHICH SHALL BE A MEMBER OF THE NAACP AND SEVEN MEMBERS

APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL.

02:48:14 >>GINA GRIMES:
THAT'S RIGHT.

02:48:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THAT'S THE RELEVANT PROVISION THAT IS

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN -- MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

WHAT'S ON THERE.

02:48:24 >>GINA GRIMES:
UNDER THE FEBRUARY PROPOSAL, IT'S FIVE FIVE

ONE.

IT'S REALLY FIVE FOR THE MAYOR, SIX FOR CITY COUNCIL.

SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAY AND FEBRUARY IS ONE APPOINTEE.

ONE APPOINTEE.

02:48:40 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU CAN RECOGNIZED, MR. CITRO.

02:48:43 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I WILL NOT FILIBUSTER, I PROMISE.

A YEAR AGO A LIFE WAS LOST.




DID IT NOT HAPPEN IN TAMPA.

HOWEVER, SINCE THAT HORRIBLE DEATH, WE -- AND WHEN I SAY WE,

I MEAN CITY COUNCIL, THE MAYOR, THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, THE

POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CHIEF OF STAFF, WE HAVE MADE MAJOR

STRIDES IN CHANGING THE WAY OF POLICING, OF PUBLIC SAFETY,

OF TRANSPARENCY, AND THE WAY WE DO BUSINESS WITH OUR LAW

ENFORCEMENT AND OUR CITIZENS.

NOW, I KNOW THIS COUNCIL HAS HEARD FROM ALL OF THE

CONSTITUENTS.

I KNOW IT'S HEARD FROM PBA.

I KNOW IT'S HEARD FROM THE NAACP.

I KNOW IT'S HEARD FROM LEGAL.

WE HAVE BEEN BARRAGED.

BUT THE ONE GROUP THAT WE REALLY HAVEN'T HEARD FROM IS THE

BOARD ITSELF.

WE NOW HAVE A CLAUSE THAT SAYS THIS BOARD WILL REPORT TO US

ANNUALLY AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY MADE THAT STATEMENT.

IN MY OPINION, THE STRIDES THAT WE HAVE MADE OVER THIS YEAR

WILL BE EXAGGERATED WHEN THE BOARD COMES TO US AND SAYS,

HERE ARE THE THINGS WE WANT TO MAKE OUR JOB BETTER.

IF THEY WANT SUBPOENA POWER, LET THEM ASK FOR IT.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THIS BODY.

NOW, TO USE A BASEBALL TERM, WE ARE IN THE WARMUP.

WE ARE WARMING UP RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE PITCHING.




WE ARE PITCHING STRIKES.

BUT UNTIL WE TAKE ACTION TODAY AND FACE THE BATTER, WE DON'T

KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE GOING TO STRIKE THEM OUT OR WALK

THEM.

MY FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS, I'M ASKING THAT WE DO SOMETHING

TODAY.

IF SOME POWERS, WHETHER IT THE POWER OF CITY COUNCIL OR THE

POWER OF THE MAYOR, FORGETS THAT WITH GREAT POWER COMES

GREAT RESPONSIBILITY AND WANTS TO USE THAT POWER TO FIGHT,

ALL DEAL WITH THAT DOWN THE ROAD.

I WANT A DECISION TODAY.

AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN COME TO A DECISION TODAY.

02:51:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
LET'S DO IT.

LET'S DO IT.

02:51:35 >> MR. CITRO BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT.

I HAVE SPOKEN DIRECTLY TO THE CRB MEMBERS AND I HAVE BEEN

PRESENT AT THEIR MEETINGS TO ADDRESS THEIR QUESTIONS AND

THAT IS A BIG CONCERN FOR THE CRB, THAT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY

ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT BUT NOT TALKED TO.

02:51:50 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.

02:51:52 >> URSULA:
THAT IS A BIG CONCERN TO THEM.

THEY ARE MOSTLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN

TALKED ABOUT BUT ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNED THAT NO ONE HAS

REALLY SOUGHT THEIR INPUT OR INFORMATION FROM THEM, SINCE

MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN DOING THE JOBS SINCE 2015.




02:52:05 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I HOPE I CAN -- EXCUSE ME, MR.

DINGFELDER -- THAT I CAN SAY WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRIMAND THAT

THERE ARE A FEW I DO KNOW.

I DIDN'T SPEAK SUBSTANTIVELY TO THEM BUT THEY HAVE CONCERNS.

AND AGAIN, THIS COUNCIL HASN'T SPOKEN TO THEM TO THE BEST OF

MY KNOWLEDGE.

SO WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

AND THEN HEAR BACK FROM THIS BODY THAT WE ARE NOT ONLY GOING

TO HELP APPOINT BUT LISTEN TO ANNUALLY.

LET'S DO THIS.

THANK YOU.

02:52:46 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THERE'S BEEN A MOTION ON THE FLOOR

REFERENCE TO THE SEVEN FOUR APPOINTMENTS THAT WAS A 6-1 VOTE

THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL, THAT MR. DINGFELDER PUT ON THE FLOOR,

I BELIEVE MR. MANISCALCO -- CARLSON SECONDED IT.

WE HAVE ALREADY HAD DISCUSSION.

I WILL ASK FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE.

MR. DINGFELDER?

02:53:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
QUESTION FROM MR. DINGFELDER.

QUESTION FOR THE CHAIRMAN, ACTUALLY.

IT'S COUNCIL'S CHOICE AS TO WHETHER YOU WANT TO HAVE AN UP

OR DOWN VOTE AND PUT IT ON FOR FIRST READING.

YOU HAVEN'T HAD THAT DISCUSSION.

02:53:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THE MOTION SAID IT WAS FOR FIRST

READING.




02:53:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THEN IF THAT'S THE CASE YOU HAVE TO READ

IT BY TITLE.

I APOLOGIZE.

02:53:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I AM GOING TO PUT MY INITIAL IN THE TOP

CORNER OF THIS DOCUMENT THAT SAYS J, AND I AM GOING TO DO

THE SAME THING ON THE EXHIBIT, BECAUSE APPARENTLY FIVE OR

SIX YEARS AGO THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION.

02:53:55 >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT SAYS AT THE BOTTOM 5-20 DRAFT.

02:54:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
5-20-21.

THANK YOU, MRS. GRIMES.

02:54:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT DATE IS PART OF YOUR MOTION?

FOR FIRST READING?

THAT DATE THAT REPRESENTS WHICH EXHIBIT IS PART OF YOUR

MOTION.

IS THAT CORRECT?

02:54:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
WHICH VERSION?

02:54:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES.

02:54:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THE VERSION IN MY HAND THAT I JUST

INITIALED --

02:54:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS DATED.

02:54:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AND SAYS AT THE BOTTOM CRA CODE SECTION

5-20-21 WITH A LITTLE V.

02:54:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT'S FINE.

AS LONG AS THE RECORD IS CLEAR.

THANK YOU.




02:54:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
REPORT ALL RIGHT.

I MOVE AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA

SUPERSEDING AND REPLACING ORDINANCE 20-2015-121 WHICH

CREATED SECTION 18-8 CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD FOR THE TAMPA

POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ADOPTING A NEW SECTION 18-8 CREATING

THE CITIZENS POLICE REVIEW BOARD FOR THE TAMPA POLICE

DEPARTMENT, PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY, REPEALING ALL

ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT THEREWITH,

PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

02:55:00 >>BILL CARLSON:
SECOND.

02:55:04 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECOND BY MR. CARLSON.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:55:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NO.

02:55:10 >> LUIS VIERA:
FOR THE AFOREMENTIONED REASONS LIKE LAST

TIME I SEE THIS AS A NARROWLY TAILORED ISSUE IN THE

TRANSITION PERIOD I TALKED ABOUT, PURSUANT TO THAT, VOTE NO

ON THE 1%.

THANK YOU.

02:55:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

02:55:24 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NO.

02:55:25 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

02:55:27 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

02:55:29 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

02:55:30 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH MIRANDA AND VIERA VOTING

NO.




SECOND READING AND ADOPTION WILL BE HELD ON JUNE 17th,

2021 AT 9:30 A.M.

02:55:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
THANK YOU.

02:55:47 >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THAT TOGETHER.

IT DID TAKE A YEAR BUT THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR DOING THAT.

AND WE STILL HAVE ONE MORE READING, I GUESS.

BUT AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, NOT TO GET INTO A LOT OF

DETAILS, BUT MY OLD BOSS FROM SINGAPORE IS TERMINALLY --

TERMINAL CANCER AND IS IN TOWN TO SEE ME FOR A FEW HOURS AND

I REALLY NEED TO GET OUT TO SEE HIM IF YOU DON'T MIND.

IS THERE ANYTHING I NEED TO VOTE ON NOW OR CAN I LEAVE?

02:56:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF I CAN, MR. CHAIRMAN, TWO POINTS.

JUST HAD A QUESTION.

MADAM CLERK, WHILE IT'S STILL THE FRESH APPRECIATE IN THE

PUBLIC'S AND THE PEOPLE'S MINDS, SECOND READING AND ADOPTION

PUBLIC HEARING AGAIN FOR THE RECORD?

02:56:25 >> JUNE 17, 2021 AT 9:
30 A.M.

02:56:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CARLSON, COUNCILMAN CARLSON, I THINK

WHAT YOU CAN DO IS YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO NOW ON

WHATEVER COUNCIL'S CHOICE IS, AND YOU HAVE SEVERAL OPTIONS

WITH REGARD TO THE ISSUE OF THE CHARTER AMENDMENT FOR THE

INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

YOU CAN EITHER MOVE IT TO FEBRUARY AS WAS PREVIOUSLY

DISCUSSED OR YOU CAN ACTUALLY MOVE IT SOONER.

YOU CAN EVEN MOVE IT SOONER THAN WAS DISCUSSED.




OR YOU CANNOT EVEN TAKE UP THE ISSUE AND REMOVE IT FROM THE

AGENDA AND TAKE IT UP AGAIN.

02:56:59 >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE IT TO THE

FEBRUARY WORKSHOP DISCUSSION.

02:57:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SECOND.

02:57:04 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECONDED BY DINGFELDER.

ROLL CALL VOTE.

02:57:09 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

AND I AM SORRY, BEFORE THIS ON THE ATTORNEY ISSUE, I VOICE

SUPPORT FOR THIS FOR MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE, AND WHATNOT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION TO SEE

WHAT WAY THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT THIS.

I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, I GUESS.

02:57:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
YES.

02:57:37 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.

02:57:38 >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.

02:57:39 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.

02:57:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

02:57:42 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.

02:57:42 >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.

02:57:46 >>BILL CARLSON:
I AM GOING TO EXCUSE MYSELF.

02:57:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AGAIN THAT DATE IS WHAT?

02:57:52 >> FOR THE WORKSHOP?

02:57:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES.

02:57:54 >>THE CLERK:
FEBRUARY 24, 2022.




02:58:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.

02:58:02 >>THE CLERK:
ARE WE GOING TO SET A TIME CERTAIN?

02:58:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THE OTHER ISSUE WITH REGARD -- THERE WAS

NO TIME ATTACHED TO IT RIGHT NOW.

IS THAT RIGHT?

02:58:13 >> THAT IS CORRECT.

02:58:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THERE A TIME THE CLERK WOULD RECOMMEND

BASED UPON --

IT WILL BE THE FIRST ITEM SO WE CAN LEAVE IT AT 9 A.M.

02:58:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT WILL BE FINE IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO

THE MAKER OF THE MOTION WHO JUST LEFT.

02:58:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
AS THE SECONDER OF THE MOTION, YES.

02:58:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECONDED --

02:58:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
9 A.M. ON FEBRUARY 24, 2022.

02:58:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
VOTING?

OKAY.

WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU GOT, MR. CHAIRMAN?

02:59:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM 55.

02:59:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
LOOKS LIKE MR. CITRO, AND WE HAVE

ALREADY LOST MR. CARLSON.

DO YOU WANT TO DEFER 55?

02:59:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. ROGERO IS ONLINE.

YOU MAY WANT TO INQUIRE --

02:59:20 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GO AHEAD WITH YOUR PRESENTATION, SIR.

HOW LONG IS YOUR PRESENTATION?




02:59:24 >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IT'S ABOUT 20 MINUTES, SIR.

02:59:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
ANY HARM IN US DEFERRING THIS FOR TWO

WEEKS?

02:59:32 >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NO, SIR, IT'S COUNCIL'S PLEASURE.

WE ARE SCHEDULING ONE ON ONE BRIEFINGS WITH EACH OF YOU.

SOME MAY HAVE ALREADY HIT YOUR CALENDAR.

AGAIN IT'S AT YOUR DISCRETION.

02:59:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I MOVE TO MOVE THE ITEM FOR TWO WEEKS.

02:59:48 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECOND BY MR. CITRO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?

02:59:52 >>THE CLERK:
WITH THAT CONTINUED TO JUNE 3rd STAFF

REPORTS?

02:59:59 >> YES, SIR.

02:59:59 >>JOSEPH CITRO:
TIM ARE YOU BACK THERE?

HOPEFULLY NOT ON THE PHONE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AS I EXPLAINED TO YOU EARLIER, I DO HAVE TO LEAVE.

TIM, I'M SORRY THAT YOU HAD TO WORK TODAY.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY, VERY BUSY DAY.

I HOPE THAT YOUR BIRTHDAY IS FILLED WITH JOY AND LOVE WITH

YOUR FAMILY TODAY.

AND I WISH YOU THE HAPPIEST OF ALL BIRTHDAYS.

[ APPLAUSE ]

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.




I HAVE GOT TO GO.

03:00:40 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GO TO INFORMATION REPORTS.

MR. VIERA, ANYTHING?

03:00:47 >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.

I'M SORRY.

CAN I GO AFTER COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO?

03:00:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MANISCALCO.

03:01:00 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NOTHING TODAY.

IT WAS A GOOD MEETING, I THINK WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF

OURSELVES FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

THANK YOU.

03:01:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. VIERA?

03:01:14 >>LUIS VIERA:
JUST REALLY QUICK IF I MAY.

I MOTION AND I WILL PRESENT THIS OFFLINE, CITY COUNCIL

COMMENDATION BE PRESENTED TO CAPPY'S PIZZA FOR THEIR WORK IN

THE COMMUNITY.

03:01:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
SECOND.

03:01:29 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY VIERA, SECONDED BY DINGFELDER.

ALL IN FAVOR?

03:01:35 >>LUIS VIERA:
NEXT, MR. JIM CREW IS RETIRED FROM THE CITY

CLERK'S OFFICE AFTER 26 YEARS, SERVICE TO THE CITY.

I MOVE THAT A COMMENDATION BE PRESENTED TO HIM ON MAY

27th.

03:01:46 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECONDED BY MR. MIRANDA.




ALL IN FAVOR?

03:01:49 >>LUIS VIERA:
I MOTION TO PRESENT A TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

COMMENDATION TO THE JUNIOR LEAGUE OF TAMPA DIAPER BANK WHICH

WILL CELEBRATE THE AMAZING MILESTONE OF DISTRIBUTING 1

MILLION DIAPERS, AN EFFORT OF YEARS AGO, AND I CAN DO THIS

OFF-SITE AS WELL.

03:02:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY VIERA.

03:02:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
DIAPERS?

03:02:13 >> DIAPERS AND PIZZA?

03:02:15 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL IN FAVOR?

03:02:17 >>LUIS VIERA:
THEREAFTER, LAST ONE, I MOTION THAT THE CITY

COUNCIL COMMENDATION BE PRESENTED TO RUTH I RAY WHO IS

RETIRING AFTER 19 YEARS AT HART AND THE COMMENDATION TO BE

PRESENTED OFF-SITE.

03:02:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECONDED BY MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

03:02:36 >>LUIS VIERA:
AND MIKE SUAREZ, HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

BY THE WAY, I WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY FOR A

VERY PRODUCTIVE MEETING.

EVERYBODY WAS VERY CONTRIBUTING, AND WE GOT A LOT OF POINTS

ACROSS, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

03:02:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
I'M GOOD TODAY.

THANK YOU.

03:03:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AS PART OF THE CITY'S PREPARATION AND




SUBMISSION OF THE ANNUAL ACTION PLAN, A PUBLIC HEARING MUST

BE CONDUCTED WITH TAMPA CITY COUNCIL TO PROVIDE THE

OPPORTUNITY FOR CITIZENS TO COMMENT ON THE HOUSING AND

COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT NEEDS FOR THE CITY.

THEREFORE I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO INDICATE THE

PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD AT A PUBLIC HEARING ON JUNE 3rd,

2021, AT WHICH TIME THE DRAFT OF THE CITY OF TAMPA'S ANNUAL

ACTION PLAN WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL, AND

A SECOND PUBLIC HEARING WITH APPROVAL AND ADOPTION OF FINAL

PLAN BY THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL TO BE CALENDARED FOR JULY 29,

2021.

03:03:43 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SECOND BY MR. DINGFELDER.

03:03:44 >>ANDREA ZELMAN:
DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY.

I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY FOR THE MOTION.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CBBG ACTION PLAN.

03:03:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

03:03:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY?

03:03:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

I APPRECIATE IT.

03:04:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GENTLEMEN, WE HAD AN INTENSE MEETING IN

THE SECOND HALF.

SOME FOLKS ARE UNHAPPY.

SOME FOLKS ARE HAPPY.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY ALL THE TIME.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE ADMINISTRATION




REFERENCE THE VOTE WE MADE.

JUST SIT BACK AND WE SUPPORT GOOD PEOPLE, TO BE IN PLACE AND

DO THINGS FOR THE CITY.

SO I AM HOPING THAT WE ALL COME BACK TO THIS ISSUE, AND

AGAIN, I JUST THANK EVERYBODY FOR GIVING THEIR THOUGHTS.

IT WAS VERY INTENSE TODAY AT SOME POINTS.

BUT I AM GLAD THAT WE SETTLED DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND GOT WHAT

WE NEEDED TO DO.

AGAIN WE ARE HERE TO WORK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND POLICE

DEPARTMENT, THE MAYOR, I UNDERSTAND, BUT CERTAIN DECISIONS

HAVE TO BE MADE AT CERTAIN TIMES.

AGAIN, I THANK YOU ALL.

MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE.

03:04:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SO MOVED.

03:04:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION BY MR. MIRANDA, SECOND BY MR.

MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?

WE ARE ADJOURNED.

[SOUNDING GAVEL]



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