TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL CALLED MEETING
MONDAY, JUNE 14, 2021
9:00 A.M.
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09:02:31 [SOUNDING GAVEL]
09:02:32 >>ORLANDO GUDES: GOOD MORNING, GENTLEMEN.
09:02:33 GOOD MORNING, CITIZENS OF TAMPA.
09:02:35 WE HAVE A SPECIAL CALLED AGENDA TODAY.
09:02:39 JUNE 14, 2021.
09:02:41 AT THIS TIME WE'LL HAVE AN INVOCATION.
09:02:43 AND WE WILL HAVE A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
09:02:46 AND THEN WE'LL GO FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
09:02:50 (MOMENT OF SILENCE)
09:02:52 [ PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ]
09:03:06 MADAM DEPUTY CLERK, ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
09:03:18 >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.
09:03:19 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.
09:03:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: HERE.
09:03:21 >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.
09:03:23 >>LUIS VIERA: HERE.
09:03:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.
09:03:26 >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.
09:03:28 >>THE CLERK: WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
09:03:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU, DEPUTY CLERK.
09:03:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:03:34 THANK YOU.
09:03:35 GOOD MORNING MEMBERS.
09:03:36 TAMPA CITY COUNCIL.
09:03:37 MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
09:03:38 TODAY IS MONDAY, JUNE 14, 2021.
09:03:41 WE ARE HERE AT OLD CITY HALL FOR A SPECIAL CALL MEETING
09:03:44 PURSUANT TO CITY OF TAMPA'S COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE
09:03:48 RULE 3 B 7 IT'S BEING HELD DURING THE COVID-19 STATE OF
09:03:52 EMERGENCY.
09:03:52 THE PURPOSE THIS MUCH SPECIAL CALLED MEETING IS TO
09:03:54 DISCUSS THE MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CHAIR AND THE
09:03:57 MAYOR RELATING TO ISSUES INVOLVING THE CITIZENS REVIEW
09:04:01 BOARD.
09:04:01 THERE WILL BE NO OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT TODAY.
09:04:03 NO OFFICIAL ACTION WILL BE TAKEN.
09:04:06 ANY OFFICIAL ACTION WILL BE REQUIRED TO BE TAKEN AT A
09:04:09 SUBSEQUENT NOTICED PUBLIC MEETING WITH THE PUBLIC HAVING
09:04:13 THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
09:04:14 NOW, THE PUBLIC TODAY IS ABLE TO VIEW THIS MEETING ON
09:04:18 ABLE TV ON SPECTRUM CHANNEL 640 AND FRONTIER CHANNEL 15
09:04:22 AND STREAMING ON THE INTERNET AT TAMPA.GOV/LIVESTREAM.
09:04:28 THIS MEETING IS BEING CONDUCTED IN PERSON, VIRTUALLY IN
09:04:31 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS WITH BE A PHYSICAL QUORUM PRESENT.
09:04:33 HOWEVER, IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 PUBLIC HEALTH
09:04:36 CONSIDERATIONS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO DON'T HAVE
09:04:38 ACCESS TO CABLE TV OR THE INTERNET CAN COME TO THE SECOND
09:04:41 FLOOR OF OLD CITY HALL THIS MORNING TO VIRTUALLY WATCH
09:04:44 THE MEETING THROUGH AUDIO AND VIDEO, THROUGH
09:04:47 COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA TECHNOLOGY.
09:04:49 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:04:49 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I CALLED THIS SPECIAL CALLED MEETING TO
09:04:57 TRY TO BRING SOME ISSUES TO A LANDING.
09:05:00 BETWEEN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND THIS COUNCIL.
09:05:04 BACK ON THE 27th, MEETING, ROLL CALL VOTE TO MEET
09:05:10 WITH THE MAYOR IN REFERENCE TO SOME THINGS THAT
09:05:12 TRANSPIRED AT OUR MEETING VERSUS CRB.
09:05:16 THIS MORNING I WANT TO TELL YOU HOW THAT MEETING WENT SO
09:05:19 THERE'S FULL TRANSPARENCY OF WHAT WAS SAID IN THE MEETING
09:05:21 AND WHO WAS IN ATTENDANCE AT THE MEETING.
09:05:23 I ATTENDED THE MEETING AT 3:00.
09:05:27 MARTIN SHELBY ACCOMPANIED ME, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, JOHN
09:05:30 BENNETT WAS THERE, MARTY, AND THE MAYOR.
09:05:34 THE MEETING STARTED OUT CORDIALLY WITH EVERYONE
09:05:37 INTRODUCING THEMSELVES, A LITTLE CHIT HATH CHAT AS AN ICE
09:05:41 BREAKER.
09:05:41 I STARTED THE MEETING OFF FIRST.
09:05:43 I TOLD THE MAYOR STRAIGHT OUT THAT COUNCIL WAS A LITTLE
09:05:49 BIT UPSET ABOUT THE PRESS CONFERENCE.
09:05:51 WE FELT AT THAT PRESS CONFERENCE HER AND THE CHIEF SAID
09:05:54 WE DIDN'T DO OUR JOB AND WE THOUGHT THAT WAS UNFAIR.
09:05:57 I TOLD HER THAT WE RECEIVED INFORMATION AT THE 9th
09:06:00 HOUR SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS DID NOT RECEIVE THE INFORMATION
09:06:02 THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THE AGENDA ITEM THAT CAME UP.
09:06:07 I TOLD THE MAYOR USUALLY, WE DIDN'T GET IT IN THE 9th
09:06:14 HOUR AND THAT CAN'T HAPPEN WHEN COUNCIL GETS IN AN UPROAR
09:06:19 WHERE COUNCIL AREN'T ABLE TO CHIME IN ON WHAT'S GOING ON.
09:06:22 I TOLD THE MAYOR THAT BASICALLY THAT IN FEBRUARY, WE
09:06:25 THOUGHT THAT WE HAD BROKERED A DEAL THAT WAS 7-4 WITH A
09:06:29 5-2 VOTE.
09:06:30 I TOLD THE MAYOR THAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS COME BACK,
09:06:36 BECAUSE NORMALLY IF WE MAKE A DEAL A DECISION, WITH STAFF
09:06:41 OR ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T LIKE IT, THEY WILL RUN DOWN OR
09:06:44 THEY WILL GET AND ASK US TO HOLD.
09:06:49 THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
09:06:49 I TOLD THEM THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DAY SO THEY COUNCIL
09:06:52 THOUGHT WE WERE DOWN A PATH.
09:06:54 AND THEN ALL A SUDDEN THIS COUNCIL HAD BEEN WAITING AND
09:06:58 AT THE 9th HOUR WE GOT THAT INFORMATION.
09:07:00 AND THEN APPARENTLY WE HAD A TRAIN WRECK ON THAT DAY.
09:07:05 I TOLD HER THAT -- AND I APOLOGIZED FOR SOME OF THE
09:07:08 COMMENTS THAT WAS MADE BUT I ALSO SAID I FELT IT WAS
09:07:14 UNFAIR ON BOTH PARTS, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WORK
09:07:17 TOGETHER AND NOT DO BATTLE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.
09:07:21 I DID TELL THE MAYOR THAT COUNCIL FELT THAT THE 7-4 WOULD
09:07:28 GIVE EVERY COUNCILMEMBER A VOTE OF A PERSON, AND SHE HAD
09:07:34 4, AND AGAIN JUST TO MAKE SURE -- I KEPT SAYING IT'S NOT
09:07:40 A POWER THING.
09:07:41 PEOPLE SAY IT'S A POWER THING.
09:07:43 AND TO ME IT'S NOT A POWER ISSUE.
09:07:46 BUT I DID TELL THE MAYOR, I THINK THIS COUNCIL WOULD BE
09:07:49 WILLING TO MAYBE COMPROMISE, MAYBE A 6-5.
09:07:51 I DON'T KNOW.
09:07:52 I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE COUNCIL, BUT I AM JUST SAY THOUGHTS
09:07:57 TRANSPIRED, IT COULD HAPPEN.
09:07:59 I PRETTY MUCH FINISHED UP WITH WHAT I THOUGHT COULD TRY
09:08:05 TO GET WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND WORK OUT SOME ISSUES.
09:08:07 I DID TELL THE MAYOR I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD ORDINANCE.
09:08:11 WE HAD A LOT OF GOOD THINGS IN THERE.
09:08:14 A LOT OF GOOD THINGS IN THERE.
09:08:17 A FEW OF THOSE THINGS I SAID WE KICKED DOWN THE ROAD, IN
09:08:21 THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET
09:08:24 MOVING.
09:08:25 AND I LET THE MAYOR SPEAK.
09:08:26 AND THE MAYOR TOLD ME, BEFORE I SPOKE, I DID SAY THAT I
09:08:29 DIDN'T AGREE WITH SOME OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S
09:08:34 INTERPRETATION, BUT SHE'S THE CITY ATTORNEY, MS. GRIMES,
09:08:38 AND SHE'S A WONDERFUL PERSON, THAT'S HER JOB, AND I DID
09:08:42 TELL THE MAYOR THAT I BELIEVE HER JOB IS TO SET POLICIES
09:08:45 FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
09:08:49 BUT WHEN IT COMES TO LEGISLATIVE MATTERS, THIS BODY IS
09:08:52 ENTRUSTED TO LEGISLATIVE MATTERS.
09:08:54 BUT THAT WAS FINE.
09:08:56 WE WOULD SETTLE THOSE THINGS OUT LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD
09:08:58 ABOUT WHO DOES WHAT, HOW, WHEN AND WHERE.
09:09:01 SO I LET THE MAYOR SPEAK.
09:09:02 AND THE MAYOR SAID SHE FELT THAT SHE DID HAVE THE POWER
09:09:05 AND AUTHORITY BECAUSE THE CHARTER TELLS HER ABOUT THE
09:09:08 MANAGEMENT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
09:09:10 AND I AGREED ABOUT THE POLICY AND SO FORTH.
09:09:14 CHARTER ISSUES, I THE ISSUE I WANTED TO GET ON WAS
09:09:19 BASICALLY HOW WE PROCEED, HOW WE DEAL WITH THOSE THINGS
09:09:24 WAY DOWN THE ROAD OR WHATEVER.
09:09:26 THE MAYOR SAID SHE FELT THAT SHE HAD DONE EVERYTHING SHE
09:09:30 COULD DO AS FAR AS GIVING EVERYTHING SHE THOUGHT SHE
09:09:35 COULD GIVE AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.
09:09:36 SHE FELT THAT -- AND I TOLD HER, I CAN SAY YOU HAVE DONE
09:09:41 A GREAT JOB, AND MR. BENNETT SAID, WE ARE DEBUNKING THE
09:09:48 BUCKHORN SITUATION, AND I FELT GIVING MORE, AND
09:09:52 I FELT THE ORDINANCE DID HAVE MORE.
09:09:55 THE MAYOR THOUGHT A 5-5 SPLIT WOULD GIVE EQUAL BALANCE.
09:09:59 I TOLD HER I THOUGHT THE ONE WAS CONFUSING BECAUSE THE
09:10:01 ONE, HOW WOULD THAT ONE GO?
09:10:05 THAT'S WHY I KEPT SAYING STRAIGHT 6-5.
09:10:08 SO APPARENTLY MY INTERPRETATION OF THE ONE WOULD BE
09:10:12 EITHER COUNCIL WOULD MAKE THE APPOINTMENT, AND THEN -- OR
09:10:18 MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION, THE MAYOR WOULD SAY OKAY OR VICE
09:10:21 VERSA.
09:10:22 BUT THEN I SAID, WELL, MAYOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
09:10:28 I CAN'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS FOR THIS COUNCIL.
09:10:30 I WILL NOT MAKE ANY DEALS.
09:10:32 THE ONLY THING I WILL TELL YOU AS CHAIRMAN IS WE WANT TO
09:10:36 WORK TOGETHER.
09:10:36 I DON'T WANT ANY LAWSUITS BECAUSE WE HAVE A HOUSING
09:10:39 CRISIS RIGHT NOW.
09:10:40 I AM CONCERNED ABOUT HOUSING RIGHT NOW.
09:10:41 AND ALL THE MONEYS THAT WE HAVE ARE FOR SPENDING ON
09:10:46 HOUSING.
09:10:47 AND I MADE IT CLEAR, I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO A FIGHT
09:10:51 ABOUT AN ISSUE GOING TO COURT OR ANYTHING IN REFERENCE,
09:10:55 THAT I THOUGHT HOPED WE WOULD BRING THIS IN FOR A
09:10:59 LANDING.
09:11:00 THEN THE MEETING ADJOURNED CORDIALLY, AND I LEFT, AND
09:11:05 THEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW THIS ALL PLAYED OUT, AND I
09:11:10 GOT A CALL ON FRIDAY.
09:11:14 MR. CITRO, YOU MADE A POINT AT THE LAST MEETING, YOU SAID
09:11:17 NO ONE HAD TALKED TO THE CRB.
09:11:21 WELL, I GUESS YOU WERE RIGHT, BECAUSE THE CRB CALLED,
09:11:25 CHAIRMAN OF TAMPA CITY COUNCIL.
09:11:30 I RECEIVED CALLS FROM THESE FOLKS SAYING THEY LIKED THE
09:11:32 ORDINANCE.
09:11:33 NO ONE TALKED TO THEM BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS
09:11:37 THEY WOULD LIKED TO HAVE TALKED ABOUT.
09:11:39 AND I LISTENED TO THOSE FOLKS.
09:11:42 THESE ARE INCREDIBLE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THIS BOARD, SOME
09:11:45 VERY SMALL PEOPLE WHO ARE KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY AND DO A
09:11:48 LOT OF GOOD WORK, AND FELT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN
09:11:51 ON THE CONVERSATION.
09:11:56 AND I SIT BACK AND I PONDERED IT ALL DAY FRIDAY, AND THEN
09:12:00 I CALLED -- I SAID GIVE ME THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CRB, I
09:12:07 WANT TO TALK TO THE CHAIRMAN.
09:12:09 AND GAVE THESE THOUGHTS, AND WISHED THAT WE HAD TALKED,
09:12:13 AND SAID HE LIKED THE ORDINANCE, BUT ONE THING THAT CAME
09:12:16 AWAY FROM ALL OF IT, AND MR. SHELBY BROUGHT UP IN THE
09:12:21 MEETING AS WELL, IS THAT THE ONE IS THE KICKER THAT'S
09:12:25 COMING UP, IS THE ORGANIZATIONAL PIECE TO THAT, AND THEY
09:12:30 ALL SAID THE SAME, AND MR. SHELBY BROUGHT UP, WELL, WHAT
09:12:33 IF THERE'S ANOTHER ORGANIZATION, WHY THAT ORGANIZATION,
09:12:35 WHY NOT THIS ORGANIZATION, OR HOW DO YOU FIX IT SO
09:12:38 EVERYONE GETS AN OPPORTUNITY?
09:12:40 I HAD NO ANSWER.
09:12:44 SO I THINK THAT ONE HAS BEEN THE ISSUE.
09:12:49 AGAIN, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION KNOWS
09:12:55 THAT WE WANT TO WORK WITH THEM, AND I'M SURE THEY WANT TO
09:13:00 WORK WITH US.
09:13:01 WE ARE HERE FOR THE CITIZENS.
09:13:02 YOU KNOW, THE MEETING, KEPT COMING UP IN THE MEETING
09:13:07 SOMETIME, AND I KEPT SAYING THAT AS FAR AS A PERSON WHO
09:13:12 HAS BEEN PART OF THE UNION, WHO UNDERSTANDS UNIONS, I'M
09:13:17 IN A DIFFICULT POSITION, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN A POLICE
09:13:20 OFFICER.
09:13:20 I UNDERSTAND, I WAS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO DO A JOB.
09:13:24 SO I PROBABLY WON'T MAKE ANYBODY HAPPY.
09:13:28 AND I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE ANYBODY HAPPY.
09:13:31 BUT DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE.
09:13:34 I AM GOING TO PULL MY BIG BOY SHORTS UP AND MAKE
09:13:38 DECISIONS FOR THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY AND FOR THE
09:13:40 POLICE OFFICERS BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF IT.
09:13:44 BUT I WANT TO KNOW CLEAR, GENTLEMEN, AT SOME POINT WE
09:13:46 HAVE TO BRING THIS IN FOR A LANDING.
09:13:49 YOU KNOW, TO ME IT'S NOT WIN, LOSE OR DRAW.
09:13:52 I DON'T CARE ABOUT SOMEBODY SAID, WELL, THE MAYOR -- I
09:13:59 DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.
09:14:00 I CARE ABOUT THE CITIZENS, AND WE CAN ALWAYS ADD TO THE
09:14:02 GAME IF SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT.
09:14:05 I THINK WE CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER.
09:14:09 2015, WE GOT SOME STUFF IN, AND TO GET IT MOVING.
09:14:14 NOW, HERE WE ARE IN 2021 TO MAKE IT BETTER.
09:14:18 IT MAY BE 2023, IF IT BECOMES BETTER 2022.
09:14:25 I JUST GOT ONE LAST WEEK.
09:14:29 SO MY PURPOSE TODAY IS TO HEAR WHAT EVERYONE HAS TO SAY.
09:14:36 SEE HOW WE CAN GO SO THE ADMINISTRATION KNOWS, TO WORK
09:14:39 THIS THING OUT, BECAUSE ON THE 17th, I DON'T WANT TO
09:14:42 COME ON THE 17th AND WE ARE HERE WITH THE WHOLE
09:14:45 AGENDA ITEM ALL DAY.
09:14:47 WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
09:14:48 WE ARE GOING TO MAKE SOME DECISION, A, B, C OR D, PUT
09:14:52 THEM ON THE TABLE, AND ON THE 17th COME AWAY WITH
09:14:55 WHATEVER WE WANT TO COME AWAY WITH.
09:14:57 BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS, AND WE CANNOT BE HOLDING
09:15:01 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT -- THEY TAKE ORDERS.
09:15:08 SO NO MATTER WHAT THE MAYOR SAYS, WHEN IT COMES DOWN,
09:15:12 THEY ARE GOING TO FOLLOW RULES, AND MAKE IT WORK.
09:15:18 THAT'S HOW IT WORKS OVER THERE.
09:15:20 I WAS THERE.
09:15:26 I DIDN'T LIKE IT BUT I GOT OVER IT, DID MY JOB AND THAT
09:15:29 WAS IT.
09:15:30 THAT'S WHAT POLICE OFFICERS DO.
09:15:33 WHAT HAPPENS?
09:15:37 SAME THING WITH SOME SOCIAL JUSTICE GROUPS.
09:15:39 SOME MAY BE UPSET.
09:15:41 THEY WILL BE MAD FOR THE MOMENT.
09:15:43 AND THEN WE MOVE ON AND WE DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN TIME.
09:15:48 I'LL START OFF WITH MR. MANISCALCO.
09:15:51 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:15:55 I BROUGHT UP A LOT OF COMMENTS AT ONE OF THE LAST
09:15:59 MEETINGS, IS GIVING MY HISTORICAL POINT OF VIEW ON THIS
09:16:04 WHOLE DISCUSSION.
09:16:05 I WAS ELECTED IN 2015 AND A FEW MONTHS LATER THIS
09:16:08 DISCUSSION BEGAN AND HERE WE ARE 6 YEARS LATER WITH THE
09:16:11 SAME DISCUSSION, DIFFERENT MAYOR, DIFFERENT
09:16:13 ADMINISTRATION.
09:16:14 THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
09:16:16 CERTAIN THINGS HAVE HAPPENED SINCE THEN.
09:16:19 I MYSELF -- AND I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE, I TRIED TO BE A
09:16:23 PEACEMAKER, SEND AN OLIVE BRANCH EVEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO
09:16:28 MAY HATE ME, MAY WANT TO HURT ME.
09:16:31 I BELIEVE IN FORGIVENESS.
09:16:32 I BELIEVE IN MOVING ON.
09:16:33 I DON'T LIKE BEING ON A STALEMATE WITH ANYBODY.
09:16:36 I DON'T LIKE BEING AT ODDS WITH ANYBODY.
09:16:40 AND UNFORTUNATELY IT SEEMS AS WAS PRESENTED, A COUPLE
09:16:44 WEEKS AGO, AND YOU SAID IT ALREADY, YOU KNOW.
09:16:47 WE VOTED ON SOMETHING IN FEBRUARY, AND IT WAS QUIET UNTIL
09:16:50 BASICALLY THE DAY BEFORE THE DAY OF, AND THE DISCUSSION
09:16:54 OPENED UP AGAIN, AND HERE WE ARE.
09:16:59 YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, THURSDAY IS GOING TO
09:17:02 BE A LONG MEETING BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF
09:17:04 PUBLIC COMMENT.
09:17:05 YOU KNOW, WE SAW A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENT, AND RIGHTFULLY
09:17:08 SO LAST SUMMER U.I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THIS
09:17:12 THURSDAY.
09:17:12 MY THING IS THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS THE MAYOR IS A
09:17:18 FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE.
09:17:20 YOU KNOW, WHO APPOINTS THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
09:17:22 SO THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WILL SAY OR CAN ASSUME THAT,
09:17:26 WELL, THE POLICE RUN THE CITY.
09:17:28 NO.
09:17:29 WE ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS.
09:17:30 THE CITY COUNCIL IS ONE BODY.
09:17:32 THE ADMINISTRATION IS ANOTHER BODY.
09:17:33 WE RESPOND TO THE PEOPLE.
09:17:35 WE TRY TO PASS A BUDGET AND WHATNOT.
09:17:38 BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THIS BOARD, YOU KNOW, WE NEED A
09:17:42 BALANCE.
09:17:42 AND I HAVE SAID AND WE VOTED ON, WHY DON'T WE CHOOSE
09:17:45 SEVEN MEMBERS?
09:17:46 SEVEN MEMBERS ONE FOR EACH CITY COUNCIL MEMBER AND THEN
09:17:49 THE MAYOR HAS THE REMAINING.
09:17:53 AND THEN THE NAACP, HOWEVER THAT WOULD WORK.
09:17:56 I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH IT.
09:17:58 BUT SOME DON'T AGREE WITH IT AND I UNDERSTAND IT.
09:18:02 I THINK IF WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH CITY COUNCIL POINTING
09:18:06 THE 7 PEOPLE AND THEN THE MAYOR HAVING THE REST, BUT
09:18:09 TAKING THE DISCUSSION OF SUBPOENA POWER AND OUTSIDE
09:18:12 COUNSEL OFF THE TABLE AND JUST CLOSE IT OUT, YOU KNOW.
09:18:15 IF IT'S ABOUT A BALANCE THERE, WHO APPOINTS WHAT, AND
09:18:18 THEN END THE DISCUSSION THERE, NEXT YEAR WE CAN REVISIT
09:18:23 IT OR IN THE FUTURE WE CAN REVISIT IT.
09:18:25 YOU ALREADY MADE MENTION TO SOMETHING WAS APPROVED AND
09:18:30 PASSED THE BOARD CREATED IN 2015, NOW WE ARE MAKING IT
09:18:33 BETTER.
09:18:34 THE ORDINANCE HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO US.
09:18:36 YOU KNOW, IT'S BETTER AS AN IMPROVEMENT.
09:18:38 IN THE FUTURE WE CAN IMPROVE IT EVEN FURTHER.
09:18:40 YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T DO EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE BECAUSE WE
09:18:43 SEE HOW THINGS WORK, AND THEN WE FIX WHAT WE HAVE TO FIX
09:18:47 AND MOVE FORWARD.
09:18:48 IT'S A PERPETUAL THING.
09:18:50 IT'S A CONSTITUTION IS A LIVING, BREATHING DOCUMENT.
09:18:54 WE CAN REVISIT THIS IN THE FUTURE IF WE SEE MORE ISSUES.
09:18:57 I DON'T KNOW WHERE COUNCIL STANDS.
09:18:59 I KNOW WE HAVE HAD OUR VOTES, THAT 5-2 VOTE, WE BONNIE 7
09:19:03 AND THEN THE ADMINISTRATION APPOINTS FOUR.
09:19:07 PERHAPS WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND THEN TAKE OFF
09:19:09 THE DISCUSSION IN THE FUTURE, TO WORKSHOP, WHATEVER,
09:19:12 REGARDING SUBPOENA POWER AND OUTSIDE ATTORNEY.
09:19:15 I THOUGHT ABOUT THE OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
09:19:16 THERE IS SOMEONE THAT IS HIRED.
09:19:20 I BELIEVE IT'S MR. BRODY TO LOOK AT THIS.
09:19:23 HE'S NOT FROM HERE.
09:19:24 HE DOESN'T HAVE A DOG IN THE FIGHT.
09:19:27 I THINK HE CAN BE FAIR, IMPARTIAL AND NEUTRAL.
09:19:32 YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THAT.
09:19:34 WHICH IS SEPARATE FROM OUR CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, OUR
09:19:37 CITY ATTORNEY, SO THAT'S BALANCED.
09:19:39 THE SUBPOENA POWER PEOPLE HAVE ISSUE WITH, YOU ARE NOT
09:19:42 SUBPOENAING POLICE OFFICERS BUT YOU ARE SUBPOENAING
09:19:45 PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS.
09:19:46 WHAT ABOUT THOSE PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY NOT WANT TO
09:19:48 APPEAR AND TESTIFY?
09:19:50 HOW DO THEY GET OUT OF A SUBPOENA?
09:19:51 I DON'T KNOW.
09:19:52 I DON'T KNOW.
09:19:53 I MEAN, CAN WE REACH AN AGREEMENT WHERE WE JUST AGREE ON
09:19:56 THE APPOINTMENTS AND CLOSE OUT EVERYTHING OUT AND MOVE
09:19:58 FORWARD?
09:19:59 I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.
09:20:00 IF NOT, WE FIGURE OUT A WAY.
09:20:03 THOSE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS.
09:20:04 AND I'M HAPPY TO LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO
09:20:07 SAY.
09:20:08 THANK YOU.
09:20:08 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIRMAN?
09:20:12 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I KNOW YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AT 10:00 SO
09:20:14 YOU ARE GOING TO GO NEXT.
09:20:15 YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
09:20:17 CAN WE GET SOME VOLUME FOR MR. VIERA, PLEASE, I.T.?
09:20:21 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR, AND FOR
09:20:26 PEOPLE, THE MANY WATCHING THIS AT HOME.
09:20:28 I'M IN DC RIGHT NOW.
09:20:32 THAT'S WHY I AM APPEARING HERE IN WHAT APPEARS TO BE A
09:20:35 HOTEL ROOM.
09:20:35 I AM IN A HOTEL ROOM.
09:20:37 MR. CHAIRMAN, I FIRST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
09:20:39 LEADERSHIP AND VOLUNTEERING.
09:20:41 A LOT OF -- ONE OF THE GREAT ESSENCES OF LEADERSHIP IS
09:20:46 WHERE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN BUT A LOT TO LOSE.
09:20:50 YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE GO AFTER THINGS WHERE THEY HAVE
09:20:56 SOMETHING TO GAIN.
09:20:57 YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING TO GAIN IS TO DO
09:21:00 THE RIGHT THING AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.
09:21:02 I THINK WE ALL APPRECIATE THAT.
09:21:03 AND STICKING YOUR NECK OUT, BY ASSERTING YOURSELF LIKE
09:21:08 YOU DID, I AM AN ADMIRER OF THAT.
09:21:11 SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY I APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE THAT
09:21:14 REALLY, REALLY SHOWS LEADERSHIP, AND I THINK THAT TODAY,
09:21:18 I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY, BUT I REMEMBER
09:21:22 COUNCILMAN'S MANISCALCO'S WORDS.
09:21:25 AND I'M SURE WHAT YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING.
09:21:29 BUT I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO DIALOGUE AND TALKING ON
09:21:32 THIS, I THINK WE ALL WANT TO HAVE YOUR BACK IN THAT
09:21:35 REGARD.
09:21:35 SO I THINK WE ALL JUST REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE IT, AND
09:21:38 WHATNOT.
09:21:40 HEARING FROM THE CRB IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
09:21:43 I'M GLAD THAT FOLKS ARE REACHING OUT.
09:21:45 I REACHED OUT TO SOME OF THE MEMBERS.
09:21:47 THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BOTHERED ME THROUGHOUT, WHICH IS WE
09:21:51 HAVE NOT REACHED OUT TO THE CRB.
09:21:54 I HAVE SPOKEN TO I THINK MEMBERS THROUGHOUT THE DURATION
09:22:00 OF THIS PROCESS BUT THERE'S KIND OF BEEN A CLOUD, IF YOU
09:22:04 WILL, OVER SOME OF THE CRB MEMBERS, BECAUSE OF HOW THE
09:22:08 2015 BOARD OCCURRED, AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
09:22:11 WE WANT TO DO IS WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE THAT CREATED CLOUD
09:22:14 WORSE.
09:22:17 WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER BY PASSING AN ORDINANCE THAT DOES
09:22:19 THE JOB THAT I THINK WE ALL WANT TO HAVE DONE.
09:22:22 I THINK IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT AND WHATNOT.
09:22:30 WHEN I LOOK AT THE VOTE THAT HAPPENED WITH THE CITY
09:22:31 COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR, THERE'S A LOT OF MISUNDERSTANDING
09:22:35 GOING ON THERE.
09:22:42 THERE IS ONE THING THAT DIVIDE US AND THAT'S ONE VOTE.
09:22:45 WHETHER YOU CALL IT 5-5-1, WHETHER YOU CALL IT 6-5,
09:22:49 WHATEVER, ONE VOTE.
09:22:50 7-4 VERSUS 6-5, 7-4 VERSUS 5-5-1.
09:22:55 I TALKED ABOUT FOR PROBABLY SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS HAVING
09:22:58 A 5-5 SPLIT WITH ONE, WHATEVER ORGANIZATION, POTENTIALLY
09:23:06 CONFIRMED BY COUNCIL, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, HAVING THAT
09:23:12 VOTE, THAT'S VERY LITTLE THAT DIVIDES THIS FROM BEING A
09:23:16 UNIVERSAL SIGNING CEREMONY.
09:23:18 AND I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THAT 110%, IN MY
09:23:22 OPINION.
09:23:23 THERE'S A LOT OF LEGAL ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP
09:23:26 IN THAT REGARD.
09:23:28 THAT IF COUNCIL MOVES FORWARD, AS I UNDERSTAND,
09:23:32 THE POSITION OF THE ADMINISTRATION, IF COUNCIL MOVES
09:23:35 FORWARD WITH THE 7-4, AND CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, THIS
09:23:39 ORDINANCE THEN WON'T BE IMPLEMENTED.
09:23:43 AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE A LEGAL FIGHT.
09:23:45 AND SO MY QUESTION IS, OVER ONE VOTE, DO WE WANT TO HAVE
09:23:49 THAT FIGHT WITH THE ASSOCIATED COST AND TIME, ET CETERA,
09:23:53 ET CETERA, WHEN WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT IN MY OPINION,
09:23:57 I THINK IN MOST PEOPLE'S OPINION, IS VERY, VERY GOOD, IN
09:24:01 MY OPINION.
09:24:02 AND WHATNOT.
09:24:03 YOU KNOW, LAST TIME I TALKED ABOUT DEESCALATING THINGS,
09:24:10 HAPPENS TO ME, HAPPENS TO EVERYBODY, WHERE PASSIONS RISE,
09:24:14 ET CETERA.
09:24:15 BUT I THINK IF WE FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT WE ARE ONLY
09:24:17 TALKING ABOUT ONE APPOINTMENT, ONE APPOINTMENT.
09:24:27 THERE'S OTHER ISSUES OUT THERE, SUBPOENA POWER.
09:24:29 AND WITH THE ATTORNEY I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE
09:24:31 TERMINOLOGY.
09:24:32 EVERY ATTORNEY IS INDEPENDENT.
09:24:34 EVERY ATTORNEY HAS TO BE BY VIRTUE OF THEIR ETHICAL
09:24:37 CONSTRAINTS INDEPENDENT.
09:24:38 THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN
09:24:40 ATTORNEY WHO IS OUTSIDE OR NOT.
09:24:42 I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT.
09:24:47 BUT THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE NOT BEFORE US TODAY.
09:24:54 ESPECIALLY ON THE SUBPOENA ISSUE.
09:24:57 WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT SUBPOENA POWERS, SUBPOENA POWERS.
09:25:01 WHERE DOES CITY COUNCIL STAND ON THAT ISSUE? JUST
09:25:03 SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IN MY OPINION.
09:25:05 I THINK WE ARE ALL ON BOARD WITH 99% OF THIS ORDINANCE.
09:25:09 WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THAT 1%.
09:25:12 AND WE HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER WHY WE ARE DOING THIS.
09:25:16 YOU KNOW, WHY WE DID THINGS OVER THE YEARS LIKE SPENDING
09:25:22 MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON BODY CAMERAS, SOMETHING WE SHOULD
09:25:25 HAVE DONE, SOMETHING THAT -- ABOUT A YEAR AGO, THINGS
09:25:33 LIKE BODY CAMERAS, THE IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING THAT WE ARE
09:25:37 HAVING NOW FOR ALL OF OUR CITY OF TAMPA EMPLOYEES,
09:25:39 SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN 2018, I REMEMBER
09:25:43 BRINGING THAT UP, AND I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO
09:25:47 SECONDED IT AS I RECALL, KIND OF WENT NOWHERE OVER THE
09:25:50 LAST YEAR.
09:25:51 WE HAVE TO THANK OUR FRIEND COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER FOR
09:25:58 HAVING MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS GO WITH POLICE OFFICERS
09:26:01 ON CALLS THAT DEAL WITH EMOTIONAL OR PSYCHIATRIC ISSUES,
09:26:05 TAKING A LOOK AT THE USE OF FORCE, DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE
09:26:08 THAT, THAT I THINK ARE REALLY, REALLY GOOD.
09:26:11 YOU KNOW, THESE BOARD CHANGES, THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD
09:26:14 BOARD CHANGES THAT WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE PERSPECTIVE OF
09:26:18 THAT.
09:26:21 SO AGAIN WE ARE VERY CLOSE IN MY OPINION AND THE QUESTION
09:26:24 WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES IS DO WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS
09:26:28 LEGAL BATTLE WITH ALL THE ASSOCIATED TURMOIL OVER ONE
09:26:31 VOTE?
09:26:36 THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.
09:26:38 BUT MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANT TO AGAIN THANK YOU FOR PUTTING
09:26:41 THIS TOGETHER, AS WELL AS FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND
09:26:44 WHATNOT.
09:26:45 I LOOK FORWARD TO GOING FORWARD WITH THIS ORDINANCE.
09:26:53 WE WANT SOMETHING THAT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED AND THAT'S NOT
09:26:56 GOING TO LEAD US, THAT'S NOT GOING TO LEAD US ON THIS
09:27:01 TRAIN THAT I DON'T THINK ANY OF US TO A DESTINATION THAT
09:27:04 I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO GO.
09:27:06 THAT'S IT FOR NOW.
09:27:07 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
09:27:08 THANK EVERYBODY.
09:27:09 I WILL BE LOGGING OFF ABOUT 10 A.M. BECAUSE I WANT TO GO
09:27:12 WITH MY SON, BUT THANK YOU AGAIN, EVERYBODY.
09:27:17 I APPRECIATE IT.
09:27:17 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU.
09:27:20 MR. SHELBY BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, I HAD SO MANY
09:27:23 THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD AND I FORGOT TO MENTION IT, CITY
09:27:27 ATTORNEY GRIMES WILL ALSO SPEAK.
09:27:30 MR. CARLSON, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
09:27:32 >>BILL CARLSON: I WANT TO ECHO THE COMMENTS OF MY
09:27:35 COLLEAGUES.
09:27:36 THANK YOU FOR MOVING THAT FORWARD.
09:27:37 IT SHOWS GREAT LEADERSHIP AND WISDOM AND TRYING TO MAKE
09:27:45 SURE THE CITY COUNCIL AND CITY AND MAYOR'S OFFICE ALL
09:27:48 MOVE TOGETHER MOVING FORWARD.
09:27:49 ALSO WANT TO THANK CHIEF OF STAFF BENNETT FOR HIS ONGOING
09:27:53 HELP THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS BUT IN PARTICULAR THE LAST
09:27:56 COUPLE WEEKS.
09:28:01 THE MEETING THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT WAS VERY DIFFICULT.
09:28:03 I WAS NOT BRIEFED IN ADVANCE ON THE OPTIONS THAT WERE
09:28:06 GOING TO BE PRESENTED.
09:28:07 I FOUND OUT ABOUT THEM THAT DAY AND I WAS SURPRISED BY
09:28:09 THE COMMENTS FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND IN PARTICULAR
09:28:12 ALSO FROM THE POLICE CHIEF.
09:28:14 AND THEN ALSO FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE.
09:28:16 AND THE MAYOR IS A POLITICAL PERSON SO SHE CAN SAY WHAT
09:28:20 SHE WANTS.
09:28:21 BUT THE POLICE CHIEF SAID THINGS IN THIS ROOM AND ON TV
09:28:25 CAMERAS THAT NIGHT THAT WERE INFLAMMATORY AND I THINK
09:28:28 SOME OF THEM WERE BORDERLINE NOT TRUE IF NOT TRUE.
09:28:31 ONE OF THEM IS THIS ISSUE ABOUT SUBPOENA POWER U.WENT
09:28:34 BACK AND WATCHED THE MEETING FROM LAST TIME AND AS FAR AS
09:28:36 I COULD TELL THE ONLY TIME SUBPOENA POWER CAME UP IS WHEN
09:28:39 MR. DINGFELDER SAID THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY TOLD US WE
09:28:42 COULDN'T DO ANYTHING UNLESS WE HAD A CHARTER AMENDMENT.
09:28:44 WE DIDN'T MAKE ANY MOTION ON IT.
09:28:46 WE DIDN'T PUT IT ON THE AGENDA.
09:28:47 BUT SOMEHOW THAT BECAME THE KEY MESSAGE AND THE TV NEWS
09:28:51 COVERAGE THAT NIGHT, WHICH I THINK IS HIGHLY
09:28:53 INFLAMMATORY.
09:28:54 IT WHATS NOT CALLED FOR, AND I THINK THAT THAT WE SHOULD
09:29:04 BE HONEST AND DIRECT WITH THE PUBLIC.
09:29:07 THE OTHER THING THE POLICE CHIEF SAID ON TV WAS WE DIDN'T
09:29:10 DO OUR JOB, WE KEPT KICKING THIS THING DOWN THE ROAD AND
09:29:13 IT'S NOT TRUTH.
09:29:14 IT'S COMPLETELY FALSE TO STAND UP ON TV AND SAY WE DIDN'T
09:29:16 DO ANYTHING WHEN WE JUST PASSED SOMETHING.
09:29:18 SO I THINK WE HAVE NO POWER APPARENTLY BY STIPULATION
09:29:22 ATTORNEY OVER THE POLICE CHIEF BUT I WOULD CALL ON HIM TO
09:29:24 TELL THE TRUTH IF HE'S GOING TO GET BEFORE CAMERAS AND
09:29:27 ALSO IN FRONT OF THIS BODY.
09:29:34 WHY ARE WE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
09:29:35 I WAS AN ACTIVIST A FEW YEARS AGO AND THE COMMUNITY WAS
09:29:38 VERY UPSET ABOUT WHAT WAS A RACIST POLICY THAT OPPRESSED
09:29:42 THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
09:29:43 IN PART IT WAS BIKING WHILE BLACK BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY
09:29:47 OTHER POLICIES AND IT WASN'T SOMETHING CREATED BY THE
09:29:49 POLICE.
09:29:50 THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WHERE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE
09:29:53 POLICE.
09:29:54 THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAD A MAYOR WHO PUSHED RACIST
09:29:57 POLICIES, AND NOT THIS MAYOR, THE LAST MAYOR.
09:29:59 AND IT IS A FACT.
09:30:02 THE U.S. JUSTICE CAME IN AND CONDEMNED THE CITY OF TAMPA
09:30:06 FOR CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.
09:30:08 AND SOMEHOW WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOES NOT
09:30:12 HAPPEN AGAIN.
09:30:13 AND PART OF THE FIGHT WAS STRENGTHENING THIS CRB.
09:30:17 PART OF IT WAS MAKING SURE THAT IN THE FUTURE THAT THE
09:30:19 PUBLIC HAS MORE OF A CHOICE IN IT.
09:30:22 AS I SAID LAST TIME, IF WE HAVE A 7-4 VOTE IT DOESN'T
09:30:27 MEAN WE ARE GOING TO PICK SEVEN ANTI-POLICE PERSON.
09:30:31 IN FACT IF I DID I WOULD GET THROWN OUT OF OFFICE.
09:30:34 SO I THINK IF WE HAD SEVEN, IF WE FULLY REPRESENT THE
09:30:38 DIFFERENT DISTRICTS OF THE COMMUNITY WE WOULD REPRESENT A
09:30:40 CROSS SECTION OF THE COMMUNITY.
09:30:41 THE REASON WHY I DID SPEAK TO A COUPLE OF THE CRB
09:30:45 MEMBERS, AND ONE IF SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET ON TV AND
09:30:48 SAY WE DIDN'T SPEAK TO CRB MEMBERS I WISH THEY QUO ASK US
09:30:53 FIRST.
09:30:53 THEY DIDN'T ASK US WHETHER WE MET WITH THEM OR NOT.
09:30:56 BUT AS MR. VIERA SAID THE REASON WHY PEOPLE HAVEN'T MET
09:30:59 WITH THE CRB MEMBERS IS UNFORTUNATELY FOR THEM IS BECAUSE
09:31:04 THERE'S A CLOUD, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS WAS DESIGNED THE
09:31:06 LAST TIME.
09:31:07 THEY WERE SEEN AS BEING -- MANY OF THEM WERE SEEN AS
09:31:12 REPRESENTATIVES OF THE LAST MAYOR WHO IS THE ONE WHO PUT
09:31:14 THESE BAD POLICIES IN PLACE IN THE FIRST TIME AND WE ARE
09:31:18 SPENDING OUR TIME TRYING TO FIX THIS.
09:31:20 AND I APOLOGIZE, I SHOULD HAVE MONEY TO MORE OF THEM AND
09:31:23 GOTTEN THEIR POINT OF VIEW AND I'M GLAD THAT CHAIR GUDES
09:31:26 DID THAT.
09:31:27 I APPRECIATE THE MAYOR WORKING WITH US ON THIS FOR A
09:31:30 YEAR.
09:31:31 IT HAS BEEN TO AND FRO.
09:31:35 I HAVE ALSO SPOKEN TO THE PBA MULTIPLE TIMES AND BETWEEN
09:31:38 FEBRUARY AND MAY THERE WERE CHANGES MADE THAT BENEFITED
09:31:42 NOT JUST THE ACLU BUT ALSO THE PBA.
09:31:45 SO WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A FAIR
09:31:47 PROCESS, AND THE REASON WHY IT'S TAKEN SO LONG IS BECAUSE
09:31:49 WE HAVE HEARING FROM ALL VOICES WHICH DIDN'T REALLY
09:31:51 HAPPEN IN THE LAST ADMINISTRATION.
09:31:53 WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS IS A DEMOCRACY AND WE LISTEN TO
09:31:56 WHAT PEOPLE THINK, AND WE MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING
09:31:58 THAT MAKES SENSE.
09:32:00 I TELL PEOPLE THAT ON THE DAY THAT THE MAYOR ANNOUNCED
09:32:04 HER VERSION OF THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO, I ALREADY HAD A
09:32:07 MEETING SET UP WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH SOME
09:32:11 ACTIVISTS FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THE MAYOR ALLOWED THAT
09:32:13 MEETING TO CONTINUE.
09:32:14 AND WE EDITED THREE OR FOUR TIMES SINCE THEN SO I
09:32:17 APPRECIATE HER.
09:32:18 I APPRECIATE CHIEF BENNETT HELPING US MOVE THIS FORWARD.
09:32:22 SOME KEY TECHNICAL THINGS.
09:32:24 I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE VOTE IS REPRESENTATIVE OF
09:32:27 THE COMMUNITY.
09:32:27 I PREFER 7-4 VOTE.
09:32:30 I UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ONE VOTE, BUT IT
09:32:32 IS IMPORTANT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMMUNITY.
09:32:36 AS I SAID TO DARLA FROM THE PBA WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU GET
09:32:39 AN ANTI-POLICE MAYOR?
09:32:41 DO YOU WANT TO HAVE AN ANTI-POLICE MAYOR?
09:32:45 NOBODY THINKS THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, BUT WE ARE
09:32:47 NOT DESIGNING IT FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION, WE ARE
09:32:49 DESIGNING IT FOR THE FUTURE.
09:32:50 BUT THE TWO THINGS THAT I REALLY WANT TO MISS IN TRYING
09:32:54 TO REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY, NUMBER ONE, THERE WERE SOME
09:32:56 CHANGES MADE FROM FEBRUARY TO MAY.
09:32:58 SO IF WE END UP CHANGING THE 7-4 VOTE WE NEED TO KEEP THE
09:33:02 CHANGES THAT WERE MADE.
09:33:03 CAN I JUST ASK CHIEF BENNETT -- WELL, I WANT TO ASK TWO
09:33:06 QUESTIONS.
09:33:07 ONE IS, IF WE ENDED UP CHANGING THE VOTE CAN WE USE THE
09:33:10 MAY VERSION THAT HAD 2 CHANGES THAT HAPPENED BETWEEN
09:33:13 FEBRUARY AND MAY?
09:33:13 THE SECOND THING, AS I UNDERSTAND THIS, THIS VERSION,
09:33:20 OTHER PEOPLE USE THE NAME OF THE LAST MAYOR, BUT THE
09:33:22 PUBLIC, MANY PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC SEE THE LAST VERSION AS
09:33:25 BEING VERY BIASED, IT HAS WHEREAS CLAUSES THAT ARE VERY
09:33:30 BAD, THAT INFRINGED ON THE CHARTER, THEY SAW IT AS BEING
09:33:33 DESIGNED, BUT THE ORDER WAS SEEN AS SPITEFUL AGAINST CITY
09:33:37 COUNCIL.
09:33:37 BUT THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THIS IS THAT IF WE PASS AN
09:33:40 ORDINANCE ON THURSDAY, IF THE MAYOR IS OKAY WITH IT, THEN
09:33:45 SHE WILL NOT ONLY ACCEPT THE ORDINANCE AND WORK WITH IT
09:33:47 BUT SHE WILL ALSO RIP AND REPLACE THE EXECUTIVE SO THERE
09:33:53 WILL BE A NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER AND ORDINANCE THAT WILL
09:33:56 SUPERSEDE THE LAST EXECUTIVE ORDER AND THE LAST
09:33:58 ORDINANCE.
09:33:59 AND WE ARE WORKING FROM THE MAY VERSION.
09:34:01 ARE THOSE TWO POINTS CORRECT?
09:34:03 >>JOHN BENNETT: GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
09:34:06 JOHN BENNETT, CHIEF OF STAFF.
09:34:08 GOOD MORNING, PUBLIC.
09:34:09 TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION SPECIFIC, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD
09:34:11 ALSO LIKE TO FILL IN SOME OTHER COMMENTS AT SOME POINT
09:34:15 TODAY.
09:34:15 THANK YOU.
09:34:17 FIRST OF ALL, IT IS THE ADMINISTRATION'S VISION TO HOLD
09:34:21 THE MAY VERSION EXCEPT FOR THE PORTION OF THE BALANCE OF
09:34:26 THE BOARD.
09:34:27 YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING FOR THE SAME
09:34:30 THING, A PROGRESSIVE, UNBIASED, BALANCED BOARD TO SERVE
09:34:34 THE COMMUNITY.
09:34:35 AND THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT
09:34:39 AND THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE.
09:34:41 SO YES, TO BE SPECIFIC IT WOULD BE THE MAY VERSION,
09:34:44 EXCEPT FOR THE WAY THE BOARD IS STRUCTURED.
09:34:47 >>BILL CARLSON: THIS ORDINANCE AND THE MAYOR, SO WE PASS
09:34:49 THIS ORDINANCE, THAT ORDINANCE WOULD SUPERSEDE THE OLD
09:34:52 ORDINANCE, AND THEN THE MAYOR WOULD PASS A NEW EXECUTIVE
09:34:55 ORDER THAT WOULD SUPERSEDE THE LAST EXECUTIVE ORDER?
09:34:58 >>JOHN BENNETT: THAT IS CORRECT.
09:35:00 ONE OF THE GOALS AS I UNDER IT AT LEAST FROM A FEW
09:35:03 COUNCILMEN IS TO HAVE A NEW ORDINANCE SUPPORTED BY A NEW
09:35:06 EXECUTIVE ORDER, AND START ANEW.
09:35:09 AND IF THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG PEGS.
09:35:12 THE OTHER WAS TO MAKE SURE BEYOND THE PROGRESSIVENESS,
09:35:15 THE UNBIASED AND THE BALANCED ORDINANCE WAS TO HAVE A
09:35:19 BALANCED BOARD.
09:35:20 >>BILL CARLSON: AND I THINK MENTIONED IN TALKING TO THE
09:35:25 PBA OVER THIS TIME, THERE ARE MANY SAFEGUARDS FOR THE
09:35:29 POLICE SO IT'S NOT ANTI-POLICE.
09:35:31 IT ALSO HAS MORE SAFEGUARDS FOR THE COMMUNITY.
09:35:34 AS I SPEAK TO THE COMMUNITY THAT'S INTERESTED IN CHANGING
09:35:37 IT, THEY WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE MAY VERSION WITH ONE
09:35:40 LESS VOTE THAN HAVE THE FEBRUARY VERSION WITH ONE MORE
09:35:44 VOTE.
09:35:44 AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I THINK FOR MOST PEOPLE IS
09:35:47 TO MAKE SURE WE DO AWAY WITH VERSIONS IN THE PAST AND
09:35:53 SUPERSEDE IT.
09:35:54 SO THANK YOU, ALL.
09:35:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CITRO, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.
09:36:00 >>JOSEPH CITRO: MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR
09:36:04 TAKING THE LEADERSHIP IN THIS.
09:36:06 THIS IS NOT A GOOD LOOK FOR THE CITY.
09:36:10 NOT A GOOD LOOK FOR THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND NOT A GOOD
09:36:12 LOOK FOR US.
09:36:13 IN MY OPINION IT'S LIKE TWO PARENTS FIGHTING AND LEAVING
09:36:17 THE CHILDREN WITH NO SUPERVISION.
09:36:21 NOT CALLING OUR CITIZENS CHILDREN.
09:36:23 I AM NOT CALLING THE CITY OF TAMPA MAYOR'S OFFICE AND
09:36:27 CITY COUNCIL PARENTS.
09:36:28 HOWEVER, I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
09:36:33 I ALSO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO ME WHEN I MADE THE
09:36:39 STATEMENT, HAS THIS COUNCIL TALKED TO THE CRB BOARD?
09:36:51 FOR THIS BOARD TO CHANGE AND BECOME ORGANIC AND CHANGE,
09:36:54 THIS BOARD NEEDS TO COME TO CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR'S
09:36:57 OFFICE AND TELL US WHAT THEY LIKE, WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE,
09:36:59 WHAT THEY NEED, WHAT THEY WANT.
09:37:02 NOW, I HAVE SPOKEN TO A NUMBER OF BOARD MEMBERS
09:37:14 I HAVE ALSO GONE TO SENSITIVITY TRAINING WITH THE ACLU,
09:37:17 AND LLOYD FRIDELL.
09:37:25 I HAVE HEARD LOTS OF CITIZENS TALKING ON BOTH SIDES OF
09:37:28 THIS ISSUE.
09:37:29 I'LL MAKE IT SHORT AND SWEET.
09:37:31 I THINK THANK THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, I THANK CHIEF BENNETT,
09:37:36 EVERYBODY INVOLVED, ESPECIALLY YOU, MR. CHAIR, IN THIS.
09:37:40 I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE PEOPLE THAT WE SELECT, THE PEOPLE
09:37:45 THAT WE, AND SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE THAT SIT ON SO MANY
09:37:57 OTHER BOARDS, WE SHOULD HAVE SIX MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD,
09:38:02 WITH ONE MORE, INCLUDING THE ACTIVISTS, WHETHER IT BE
09:38:06 NAACP, WHETHER IT BE HISPANIC BOARD, WHETHER IT BE SOME
09:38:10 OTHER OUTSIDE ACTIVIST GROUP WHICH WILL MAKE A TOTAL OF
09:38:16 7.
09:38:18 I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REVERT BACK TO THE MAY ORDINANCE,
09:38:24 AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE THE WORKSHOP AND THE SUBPOENA
09:38:30 POWERS TAKEN OFF BACK THAT DAY.
09:38:32 AGAIN, IF WE WANT THIS BOARD TO GROW, MATURE, PROSPER,
09:38:39 THEY CAN COME TO US AT THE ANNUAL REPORT WE ASKED THEM TO
09:38:43 GIVE US AND TELL US WHAT THEY WANT, WHAT THEY NEED, WHAT
09:38:46 THEY LIKE, WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE.
09:38:51 RIP AND REPLACE 6-5-1 WITH CITY COUNCIL GETTING THAT ONE
09:38:57 FOR THE ACTIVIST AND GOING BACK TO THE MAY ORDINANCE.
09:39:00 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:39:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. DINGFELDER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED,
09:39:04 SIR.
09:39:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: AT THIS POINT, I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH
09:39:09 ABOUT HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATE YOUR LEADERSHIP ON THIS.
09:39:13 JUST TO JUMP IN LIKE THAT, TRULY SAYS -- TELLS US AND THE
09:39:18 COMMUNITY WHAT KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE AND WE APPRECIATE
09:39:22 IT GREATLY AND I HOPE THE COMMUNITY DOES AS WELL NO
09:39:24 MATTER HOW THIS COMES OUT SUBSTANTIVELY, PROCEDURALLY.
09:39:29 IT'S VERY BRAVE OF YOU.
09:39:40 MR. SHELBY, I WILL START WITH YOU HOPEFULLY ON THE EASIER
09:39:43 ONE.
09:39:47 OBVIOUSLY, IF WE LEFT IT AT THIS 7-4, THE WAY WE DID
09:39:52 WHERE WE WERE BACK IN MAY WITH THE 5-2 VOTE, WE WOULD BE
09:39:57 IN A PROCEDURAL POSITION ON THIS COMING THURSDAY TO JUST
09:40:01 PROCEED WITH THE SECOND READING AND BE DONE WITH IT.
09:40:06 I THINK THE OTHER QUESTIONS YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT A
09:40:09 LITTLE BIT IS IF THERE WAS A SLIGHT TWEAK AND WE WENT TO
09:40:15 SOME OTHER COMBINATION OF 5-5-1, 6-5, SOMETHING LIKE
09:40:22 THAT, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD CONTINUE WITH SECOND
09:40:26 READING THIS COMING THURSDAY?
09:40:28 BECAUSE I THINK EVERYBODY INVOLVED FROM THE MAYOR TO
09:40:32 COUNCIL TO THE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS DONE ON
09:40:36 THURSDAY.
09:40:37 SO HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY YOUR ANSWER IS IN THE
09:40:40 AFFIRMATIVE.
09:40:41 YOU TELL ME.
09:40:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: GENERALLY WHAT I BELIEVE YOU ARE ASKING
09:40:46 IS, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER YOU GO TO SECOND READING ON
09:40:50 THE ORDINANCE AS IT IS, OR YOU COME TO AN AGREEMENT TO
09:40:55 COME TO A CONSENSUS TO SUBSTITUTE THE EXHIBIT A, RELATIVE
09:40:59 TO JUST THE APPOINTMENTS, AND THE APPOINTMENT OF THE
09:41:04 APPOINTMENTS, CAN YOU STILL GO FORWARD TO SECOND READING?
09:41:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: HE CAN CORRECT.
09:41:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IN MY
09:41:10 OPINION IS YES, THERE MAY BE A FEW LITTLE CAVEATS IN
09:41:13 THERE, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, FORTUNATELY -- AND I AM
09:41:16 VERY GRATEFUL I DID HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH
09:41:19 MS. GRIMES AND TO MS. ZELMAN AND TO MR. MASSEY REGARDING
09:41:24 THIS AND I UNDERSTAND SHE IS ONLINE.
09:41:27 IF SHE WISHES TO ADDRESS THAT TO COUNCIL, BUT I WOULD
09:41:31 PREFER YOU HEAR IT FROM HER SHE BEING THE CITY ATTORNEY.
09:41:34 AND I CERTAINLY WOULD CONCUR WITH HER OPINION IF THERE'S
09:41:37 ANYTHING I NEED TO ADD, I CERTAINLY WOULD BUT I CERTAINLY
09:41:40 BELIEVE THAT CITY COUNCIL, IF THAT IS YOUR DECISION TO
09:41:42 MOVE FORWARD ON SECOND READING WITH THOSE MINOR
09:41:45 PARAMETERS THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE A CHANGE TO THE TITLE OR
09:41:48 A CHANGE TO THE GENERAL PURPOSE OF WHAT THAT ORDINANCE
09:41:50 IS, FOR INSTANCE, EVEN WITH REGARD TO THE APPOINTMENTS,
09:41:54 IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PURPOSE OF THAT BOARD, IT DOESN'T
09:41:57 CHANGE THAT BOARD'S DUTIES.
09:41:58 SO MY OPINION IS THAT YOU COULD PROCEED TO SECOND READING
09:42:03 AND ADOPTION AND BE ABLE TO PRESENT THAT TO THE MAYOR ON
09:42:06 THURSDAY, IF THAT'S COUNCIL'S PLEASURE.
09:42:08 IF THERE ARE CHANGES THAT THE ADMINISTRATION AGREES TO,
09:42:11 AND THE MAYOR WOULD AGREE TO, TO EXHIBIT A.
09:42:14 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MS. GRIMES?
09:42:34 >>GINA GRIMES: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
09:42:35 MR. SHELBY AND I HAD A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE ON
09:42:38 FRIDAY.
09:42:39 AND OUR OFFICE DID CONDUCT RESEARCH ON THE QUESTION OF
09:42:43 MAKING CHANGES BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING.
09:42:46 AND WE BELIEVE THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO MAKE THE CHANGE FROM
09:42:51 THE 7-4 TO 5-5-1, THAT IT IS LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE.
09:42:57 BUT LIKE ANYTHING IT'S NOT IRONCLAD.
09:43:00 AS YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE CHANGES BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND
09:43:02 READING OFTEN.
09:43:04 AND WHENEVER YOU DO THAT, THERE'S ALWAYS A RISK SOMEONE
09:43:08 MAY CHALLENGE THAT VARIATION IN THE PROCESS.
09:43:11 SO IN THIS CASE, GIVEN OUR OPINION THAT IT IS A LEGALLY
09:43:16 DEFENSIBLE CHANGE, WE DECIDE WHETHER YOU WANT TO TAKE
09:43:22 THAT RISK, GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF PROCEEDING WITH SECOND
09:43:26 READING ON THURSDAY.
09:43:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU, MS. GRIMES.
09:43:32 MR. BENNETT?
09:43:36 I KNOW WE ALL LIKE TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION BEFORE WE
09:43:40 OPINE ON ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE.
09:43:42 YOU ALLUDED TO SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU WANTED TO
09:43:45 SHARE WITH US.
09:43:46 >>JOHN BENNETT: I DID, CHAIRMAN.
09:43:50 I WOULD LIKE TO BACK UP FOR JUST A QUICK SECOND BEFORE I
09:43:53 GET INTO SOME OF THE ACTUALLY VERY SMALL SUBSEQUENT
09:43:56 POINTS.
09:43:57 YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANTED TOO TO THANK YOU FOR
09:43:59 YOUR LEADERSHIP.
09:44:00 I THINK WE HAVE TRIED AS AN ADMINISTRATION, ESPECIALLY
09:44:03 FOCUSING IN ON MY OFFICE AND MY RESPONSIBILITIES, WORK
09:44:07 COLLABORATIVELY WITH COUNCIL OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AND
09:44:10 LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO DO THAT.
09:44:12 THE OTHER COMMENT YOU SAID I MAY NOT MAKE ANYBODY HAPPY.
09:44:14 AND I HAVE GOT TO TELL YOU THAT SINCE 2003 WHEN WE
09:44:18 CHANGED OUR MISSION STATEMENT IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT
09:44:20 AND YOU WERE PART OF THAT JOURNEY, ACCORDING TO MY
09:44:24 FORMULA, EVERY TIME YOU SAVE A VICTIM IN ONE YEAR YOU
09:44:27 HAVE TO RESAVE THAT VICTIM TO GET ANOTHER REDUCTION THE
09:44:30 NEXT YEAR.
09:44:31 IT'S AN ADDITIVE FORMULA.
09:44:33 I AND I LOOK LOOKED AT THIS OVER THE WEEKEND TO REFRESH
09:44:37 MY DATA FROM WHEN I RETIRED IN 2015 FROM THE ACCURATE
09:44:40 DATA THAT'S RECORDED ON OUR CRIME REDUCTION, THAT AMOUNTS
09:44:44 TO 357,529 PEOPLE THERE ARE GOING TO BE HAPPY BECAUSE
09:44:50 THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES.
09:44:53 WHAT'S VERY INTERESTING IS THAT EVERY MAJOR CITY OVER
09:44:57 250,000 IN THE REGION HAS TWO CRIME VICTIMS FOR EVERY ONE
09:45:01 IN TAMPA.
09:45:02 SO IT'S ALMOST DOUBLE THE RATE OF WHAT WE HAVE.
09:45:04 AND THAT IS BECAUSE YOUR LEADERSHIP, SUPPORTING THEIR
09:45:09 RESOURCES, THEIR OUTPUTS, THEIR INPUTS AND THEIR INCOMES
09:45:13 AS WELL AS THE OPPORTUNITY, WE HAVE 400 THAT YOU PEOPLE
09:45:15 THAT INTERACT WITH THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT IN SOME FORM OR
09:45:20 RESPECT.
09:45:20 THERE'S A CALL, 69 CALLS EVERY HOUR IN THIS CITY THAT THE
09:45:27 POLICE ARE WORKING ON TO TRY TO KEEP THAT CRIME RATE AS
09:45:30 IT IS.
09:45:30 AND I THINK WE ARE ALL VERY PROUD OF THAT AS A CITY.
09:45:34 NOW TO THE SUBSTANTIVE PART.
09:45:36 AND THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER FOR THAT
09:45:38 OPPORTUNITY.
09:45:39 AS YOU KNOW, AS THIS PROGRESSED, SINCE APPROXIMATELY A
09:45:43 YEAR AGO, AND THOSE ITERATIONS INCLUDE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT,
09:45:48 SCHOLAR PRACTITIONER ENGAGEMENT, AS WELL AS --
09:45:53 >>BILL CARLSON: MR. CHAIR, THERE'S A TERRIBLE FEEDBACK
09:45:55 SQUEALING.
09:45:56 BUT IS IT POSSIBLE TO TURN OFF ALL THE MIKES OTHER THAN
09:45:59 THAT ONE?
09:45:59 DO YOU ALL HEAR THAT SOUND?
09:46:01 IT'S.
09:46:04 >>JOHN BENNETT: MY EAR HAS BEEN RING FOG ARE FIVE YEARS.
09:46:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I CAN TELL THEY ARE RINGING.
09:46:10 >>JOHN BENNETT: AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.
09:46:13 I JUST WANT TO GO BACK AND SAY, THROUGH THIS JOURNEY, AND
09:46:16 WE WON'T REHASH IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE, WE ARE
09:46:19 HERE TO NARROW IN. THERE WAS TWO THINGS, AND I THINK I
09:46:22 MENTIONED THEM ALREADY IN COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S QUESTIONS,
09:46:25 IS THAT WE WANTED PROGRESS.
09:46:27 THEY ARE IMPORTANT.
09:46:28 WE WANT AN UNBIASED AND A BALANCED BOARD. AND THAT
09:46:32 REQUIRED TWO THINGS.
09:46:33 ONE, TO RIP AND REPLACE THE FORMER ORDINANCE.
09:46:37 I'LL TELL YOU, I GOT PARTIALLY EMOTIONAL THE OTHER DAY AT
09:46:40 THAT MEETING WITH THE MAYOR WHEN MR. SHELBY SAID, I
09:46:43 REALLY ENVISION BEING AROUND THE TABLE AT A SIGNING
09:46:47 CEREMONY AFTER THURSDAY.
09:46:48 AND THAT'S AMAZING TO ME.
09:46:50 THAT'S AN AMAZING SHOW OF WHAT MR. CITRO SAID A FEW
09:46:56 MINUTES AGO ABOUT THIS CITY LOOKING AT THEIR LEADERSHIP,
09:47:02 EIGHT ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THIS CITY, AND OVER 4,000
09:47:05 EMPLOYEES SERVING THEM IN A MANNER THAT JUST IS TO ME
09:47:09 INDESCRIBABLE SUCCESS AND WE WANT TO CONTINUE THAT
09:47:12 MOMENTUM AND OPPORTUNITY WITH ALL THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND
09:47:15 THINGS THAT WE PROGRESSED WITH.
09:47:16 SECONDLY, BEYOND THE BALANCE AND UNBIASED BOARD THERE,
09:47:21 WERE TWO THINGS.
09:47:21 ONE WAS TO RIP AND REPLACE THE OLD ORDINANCE AND REPLACE
09:47:24 IT WITH A NEW ONE, WHICH ALLOWS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY.
09:47:28 THAT WAS A REQUEST FROM COUNCIL TO HAVE A NEW ORDINANCE,
09:47:31 AND THAT'S THE MAYOR ACKNOWLEDGED THAT.
09:47:33 ON TOP OF THAT, RIP AND REPLACE ORDINANCE, THE SECOND
09:47:38 THING WAS THE MAYOR WENT INTO THIS WITH A 7-4, 7 ON THE
09:47:42 ADMINISTRATION AND 4 ON COUNCIL, AND THE BIG THING WAS TO
09:47:44 MOVE THAT NEEDLE TO THE CENTER AND HAVE A BALANCED AND OF
09:47:48 COURSE UNBIASED BOARD.
09:47:51 SO THE 5-5-1 USING THE MAY PLATFORM AND ALL THE
09:47:56 SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES THAT WORKED ITS WAY TO MAY, AND MS.
09:47:59 GRIMES IS ON AS WELL, MAKES A GREAT COMPROMISE FOR THE
09:48:06 JOURNEY WE HAVE BEEN ON, THE STAKEHOLDERS WE HAVE BEEN
09:48:08 ON, INCLUDING THE UNION, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE
09:48:10 ADMINISTRATION, AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT ALLOWS COUNCIL TO
09:48:14 HAVE 5, THE ADMINISTRATION TO HAVE 5, AND THEN WHETHER
09:48:18 COUNCIL MAKES A RECOMMENDATION ON THE MIDDLE PERSON, AND
09:48:25 THE MAYOR CONFIRMS IT, OR IT FLIPS THE OTHER WAY AROUND,
09:48:29 THE MAYOR MAKES A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL, WE WOULD
09:48:31 HAVE THAT BEAUTIFUL BALANCE OF 5-5-1 AND A BALANCE
09:48:35 UNBIASED AND PROGRESSIVE CRB AND THE BEAUTY OF THAT GOING
09:48:39 FORWARD IS THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM TO PROGRESS, WE HAVE
09:48:41 TALKED ABOUT THE JOURNEY THAT THE CRB IS ON, THE FACT
09:48:44 THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BRING ANNUAL REPORTS, THE FACT
09:48:47 THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A TRANSPARENT ENGAGING PROGRESS
09:48:51 WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
09:48:52 I MEAN, WHEN YOU UNPACK THIS, AND I HAVE TO CREDIT THE
09:48:55 CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR THIS, THEY REALLY DID A REALLY
09:48:59 SOLID JOB CANVASSING THE STATE AND BEYOND FOR A MODEL
09:49:04 POLICY CONFIGURATION THAT WAS EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE AND
09:49:07 EQUITABLE TO GO FORWARD.
09:49:09 SO THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM TO GROW.
09:49:11 SO I THINK THE ONLY TWO THINGS ARE THE CONTENT OF THE MAY
09:49:16 ORDINANCE, WITH AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE 5-5-1.
09:49:20 AND I AM GLAD TO HEAR FROM MR. SHELBY'S OFFICE, AND MS.
09:49:24 GRIMES' OFFICE, THAT THEY AGREE THAT THOSE MINOR
09:49:28 MODIFICATIONS CAN BE MADE, AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO A VOTE
09:49:31 ON THURSDAY. I'LL HOLD THERE.
09:49:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST A COUPLE OF
09:49:40 THINGS.
09:49:48 WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A BALANCED AND UNBIASED BOARD, IT
09:49:53 ALMOST MAKES ME CHUCKLE A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK
09:49:56 AT, OKAY, I CAN TEST EVERYBODY HERE INCLUDING THE MAYOR
09:50:00 AND EVERYBODY ACROSS THE STREET, THE ADMINISTRATION, TELL
09:50:03 US ABOUT THE VARIANCE REVIEW BOARD, OKAY?
09:50:06 WHO SITS ON THE VARIANCE REVIEW BOARD?
09:50:08 WHO ARE THE MAYOR'S PICKS, WHO ARE COUNCIL'S VOTES?
09:50:12 NOBODY WOULD KNOW, OKAY.
09:50:14 MAYBE THE COURT KNOWS.
09:50:15 BUT OTHER THAN THAT NOBODY WOULD KNOW BECAUSE THEY ARE
09:50:17 PART OF THAT.
09:50:18 WE PICK SOME OF THOSE BOARD MEMBERS, THE MAYOR PICKS SOME
09:50:21 OF THOSE BOARD MEMBERS.
09:50:23 YOU KNOW, THEY ARE ALL GOOD PEOPLE, REGULAR PEOPLE FROM
09:50:26 THE COMMUNITY.
09:50:27 OKAY.
09:50:28 THIS CITY COUNCIL IS 7 MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL, WE ARE A
09:50:33 NOT A RADICAL BODY, ALL RIGHT?
09:50:35 THERE IS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF THAT IF WE HAD, GOD
09:50:40 FORBID, IF WE EACH HAD ONE MEMBER TO PICK IN A 7-4
09:50:44 SITUATION, YOU KNOW, THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE ARE GOING TO
09:50:48 CHANGE FROM THE RELATIVELY MODERATE AND ALMOST
09:50:51 CONSERVATIVE BOARD, BODY THAT WE ARE, TO SOME RADICAL
09:50:56 GROUP THAT'S PUTTING FLAME THROWERS ON THE CRB.
09:51:01 THAT IS ALWAYS SORT OF -- I THINK THAT'S BEEN A SAD
09:51:06 STATEMENT TO MAKE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT
09:51:09 MIGHT BE AFRAID OF THAT.
09:51:10 AND I THINK, MR. CARLSON, I THINK YOU MADE THAT POINT
09:51:14 VERY WELL ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
09:51:17 PROBABLY EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO ME IS WHATEVER WE DO AS A
09:51:24 CITY COUNCIL, OKAY, THE SUBSTANTIVE PART OF IT, 7-4-1,
09:51:30 5-5-1, YOU KNOW, THOSE ISSUES COME AND GO, AND THE NEXT
09:51:34 CITY COUNCIL FOUR YEARS FROM NOW CHANGES, YOU KNOW, THE
09:51:37 NEXT MAYOR, X NUMBER OF YEARS FROM NOW WORKING WITH CITY
09:51:40 COUNCIL COULD PROPOSE A CHANGE.
09:51:42 THEY COULD ABOLISH THIS.
09:51:44 THEY CAN DO ALL SORTS OF THINGS.
09:51:45 BUT THE REAL ISSUE THAT CONCERNS ME GREATLY IS
09:51:49 STRUCTURAL.
09:51:51 THE STRUCTURE AND INTEGRITY AND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
09:51:56 THE DIFFERENT BODIES IN CITY HALL.
09:52:00 AND I MEAN THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:52:01 YOU BROUGHT IT UP.
09:52:03 AGAIN, TO REINFORCE THE FACT THAT THE CHARTER SAYS IT, WE
09:52:07 ARE A REPRESENTATIVE BODY.
09:52:08 AND I THINK THIS IS A VERY HEALTHY PROCESS BECAUSE IT
09:52:11 DOES REMIND ME OF WASHINGTON, D.C., JOHN BENNETT.
09:52:14 IT REMINDS ME OF WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE PRESIDENT
09:52:17 SENDS HIS PEOPLE DOWN TO THE CAPITOL AND SAYS, WE DON'T
09:52:21 LIKE THIS PART OF THE LEGISLATION, WE SUGGEST OTHERWISE,
09:52:25 AND IT'S A TUG AND PULL, TUG AND PULL, BUT AT THE END OF
09:52:29 THE DAY, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN THE VICE PRESIDENT AND A
09:52:33 TIE AT THE END OF THE DAY, LEGISLATIVE DECISION IS MADE
09:52:35 BY THAT LEGISLATIVE BODY IN CONGRESS AND I DON'T BELIEVE
09:52:38 WE SHOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN THAT.
09:52:40 SO THE NOTION THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME SORT OF THREAT OUT
09:52:45 THERE, THAT MAYOR MIGHT NOT UPHOLD THE LAW, UPHOLD THE
09:52:50 LAW?
09:52:50 OKAY.
09:52:51 I DON'T KNOW.
09:52:52 I FIND THAT VERY DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND AND EVEN
09:52:56 BELIEVE.
09:52:56 BECAUSE THIS IS A WOMAN WHO HAS SPENT HER ENTIRE LIFE
09:53:00 UPHOLDING THE LAW.
09:53:03 SPENT HER ENTIRE CAREER AND HAS BEEN TAKING THE
09:53:06 ORDINANCES, TAKING THE LAWS OF THE LAND, WHETHER OR NOT
09:53:08 THE FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL, AND UPHOLDING IT.
09:53:13 BUT LET ME BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND TALK TO THE SUBSTANCE
09:53:17 OF THIS.
09:53:20 AND THAT MAY MEETING WAS VERY UNFORTUNATE, AND NONE OF US
09:53:26 FELT GOOD AFTER IT.
09:53:27 AND TO THE EXTENT THAT I MIGHT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE
09:53:30 CONTROVERSY, I APOLOGIZE TO ANYBODY I MIGHT HAVE
09:53:32 INSULTED.
09:53:33 BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GO BACK.
09:53:38 WHEN I LEFT THAT MEETING, THE NEXT DAY -- AND JOHN, I
09:53:43 WILL BREAK OUR CONFIDENCE HERE, BECAUSE I STARTED IT --
09:53:46 BUT THE NEXT DAY I CALLED JOHN BENNETT AND I SAID, JOHN,
09:53:49 I THINK WE SHOULD WORK TOWARDS SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE ON
09:53:54 ALL THE ISSUES.
09:53:55 AND MR. MANISCALCO, YOU BROUGHT IT UP, AND SOMEBODY ELSE,
09:53:58 I THINK MR. CITRO, YOU MIGHT HAVE BROUGHT IT UP A MINUTE
09:54:01 AGO, BUT I SAID THE SAME THING THE DAY AFTER THAT MAY
09:54:04 MEETING.
09:54:04 I SAID, NOW WHAT?
09:54:05 I SAID COUNCIL MADE A DECISION, WE MADE A VERY STRONG
09:54:08 DECISION TO SUPPORT MR. CARLSON'S MOTION ON 5-2 WITH THE
09:54:13 7-4, 7-4 MEMBERSHIP.
09:54:20 I SAID WE MADE THAT DECISION VERY STRONG, WE PASSED IT ON
09:54:23 FIRST READING.
09:54:24 THAT WAS THIS LIFT BODY'S DECISION.
09:54:27 I SAID, HOWEVER, I THINK THE AREA THAT WE COULD GIVE AND
09:54:30 TAKE A LITTLE BIT IS ON THE OTHER SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THE
09:54:36 OTHER PERSON IN THE ROOM, THE OTHER THING IN THE ROOM,
09:54:38 WHICH WAS THIS ISSUE OF SUBPOENA POWER AND INDEPENDENT
09:54:41 COUNSEL.
09:54:42 BECAUSE WE HAD PUSHED THAT OFF UNTIL NEXT FEBRUARY.
09:54:45 AND AS MR. MANISCALCO POINTED OUT, I THINK THERE IS AN
09:54:48 OPPORTUNITY TO HORSE TRADE ON THAT ISSUE, BECAUSE THAT
09:54:54 ISSUE IS NOT SET IN STONE.
09:54:56 THAT ISSUE IS NOT PART OF AN ORDINANCE THAT'S HALFWAY
09:55:00 THROUGH, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, AND I WAS
09:55:04 AMENABLE THREE WEEKS AGO, JOHN, WHEN YOU AND I SPOKE
09:55:07 ABOUT IT AND I AM STILL AMENABLE TODAY TO PUTTING THAT
09:55:12 DISCUSSION OFF, IF SOMEBODY MAKES A MOTION TO TAKE THAT
09:55:16 FEBRUARY WORKSHOP OFF THE TABLE AND PUT IT OFF FOR A
09:55:19 COUPLE OF YEARS UNTIL THE NEXT COUNCIL COMES ALONG, THE
09:55:22 NEXT COUNCIL MIGHT WANT TO BRING IT UP OR MAYBE THEY
09:55:25 WON'T.
09:55:25 OKAY, SO BE IT.
09:55:27 SO I MADE THAT OFFER THEN BEFORE, MR. CHAIRMAN, BEFORE
09:55:33 YOU JUMPED IN AND SAID YOU WANT TO TAKE THE LEADERSHIP ON
09:55:36 IT.
09:55:36 I MADE THAT OFFER THEN AS A PROPOSAL, AND I STILL THINK
09:55:40 THAT THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE COMPROMISE TODAY.
09:55:42 WHEN I LISTENED TO THAT PRESS CONFERENCE THEY WERE
09:55:59 TALKING ABOUT SUBPOENA POWER AND INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, AND
09:56:04 THEY WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THOSE ISSUES.
09:56:07 SO IF IT'S A MATTER OF COMPROMISE, THEN I THINK THAT
09:56:10 THAT'S ANOTHER AREA THAT COULD BE COMPROMISED -- NOT TO
09:56:15 BE COMPROMISED, COULD BE AN AREA OF COMPROMISE THAT WE
09:56:18 WOULD ALL WORK ON TOGETHER.
09:56:20 I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE GOT TODAY.
09:56:21 I PROMISED MY WIFE I WOULDN'T TALK AT ALL SO I GUESS
09:56:24 SHE'LL BE MAD AT ME.
09:56:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I WANTED EVERYBODY TO TALK TODAY SO SHE
09:56:30 CAN BLAME ME ON THAT ONE THEN.
09:56:32 MR. MIRANDA.
09:56:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR EFFORTS TO COME
09:56:36 TO SOME TYPE OF CONCLUSION ON THIS MATTER.
09:56:39 WHEN YOU GO BACK AND LOOK, IN 2019 SEEMS LIKE IT WAS
09:56:43 YESTERDAY.
09:56:45 WE ALREADY PASSED THE HALFWAY MARK.
09:56:50 SEVEN HERE AND ONE NEXT DOOR.
09:56:51 8 OFFICIALS THAT GOT ELECTED TO SERVE THE PUBLIC.
09:56:54 AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, TO SERVE THE PUBLIC.
09:56:57 AND WHEN YOU GO BACK -- AND I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR ANY ONE
09:57:00 ISSUE.
09:57:01 I DON'T CHALLENGE PEOPLE.
09:57:02 ONCE I LEAVE THESE TWO DOORS, AND I WALK OUT, I FORGET
09:57:07 HOW EVERYBODY VOTED.
09:57:08 IT'S UP TO THE INDIVIDUALS THAT GOT ELECTED TO VOTE THE
09:57:11 WAY THEY SHOULD AND BECAUSE YOU ONLY NEED ONE PERSON UP
09:57:16 THERE, NOT SEVEN.
09:57:17 WHEN YOU LOOK -- AND I KNOW SUBPOENA POWER IS NOT ON THE
09:57:20 TABLE BUT THAT'S LIKE USURPING THE POWER OF THE STATE
09:57:23 ATTORNEY AND THE GRAND JURY, AND NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT
09:57:25 POWER OTHER THAN THE STATE ATTORNEY AND THE GRAND JURY.
09:57:31 WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHARTER, WHAT THIS BROUGHT UP I
09:57:35 THINK WAS SECTION D, THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THAT SECTION,
09:57:40 THE LAST SEVEN WORDS, AS A MATTER OF FACT.
09:57:41 THEN YOU GO BACK AND UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS ARE DONE.
09:57:46 NO DEPARTMENT HEAD IS APPOINTED BY ONE PERSON.
09:57:48 THEY ARE RECOMMENDED BY ONE PERSON.
09:57:50 AND THEY ARE VOTED ON BY SEVEN OTHER PERSONS.
09:57:53 THAT'S US.
09:57:57 PAST COUNCIL, THIS COUNCIL, AND FUTURE COUNCILS.
09:57:59 SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS, WE HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WHEN THEY
09:58:03 APPOINT ALL DEPARTMENT HEADS, INCLUDING THE POLICE CHIEF,
09:58:06 AND INCLUDING THE CITY ATTORNEY.
09:58:13 SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAT
09:58:16 HAS NEVER BEEN DISCUSSED.
09:58:19 ALREADY, AND MID 2021.
09:58:23 ANOTHER MONTH IT WILL BE HALFWAY.
09:58:25 THEN YOU HAVE 2022.
09:58:29 AND IN 2022, TOWARDS THE END OF 2022, GUESS WHAT HAPPENS.
09:58:36 UP FOR ELECTION.
09:58:37 WHAT A WONDERFUL TIME TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS ON THE
09:58:40 BALLOT.
09:58:42 LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE.
09:58:43 THAT'S CALLED DEMOCRACY BY LARGE NUMBERS, NOT BY 8.
09:58:47 NOT BY 7-4.
09:58:48 NOT BY 5-5-1.
09:58:50 NOT BY 6-3-1, 6-3-2, WHATEVER.
09:58:54 IT'S CALLED DEMOCRACY.
09:58:55 IT SETTLES THE SITUATION ONCE AND FOREVER.
09:58:58 I DON'T LIKE TO SIT HERE AND UNDERSTAND TELL MYSELF, XI,
09:59:03 I WONDER WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN 2025.
09:59:10 THAT WOULD BE CUT DRIED WHAT'S GOING DO HAPPEN BECAUSE
09:59:13 THE PUBLIC VOTED ON IT AND YOU DON'T HEAR ME SPEAKING
09:59:16 MUCH ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THE PUBLIC ELECTED US.
09:59:18 BUT WHEN THERE'S SOME TYPE OF GIVE AND TAKE, AND TWO
09:59:21 BODIES, WHOEVER THE BODIES MAY BE, AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
09:59:25 THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION
09:59:29 AMONG 8 INDIVIDUALS.
09:59:31 THAT'S ALSO CALLED DEMOCRACY.
09:59:33 AND SOME PLACES IN THE WORLD, IN MOST PLACES IN THE
09:59:36 WORLD, NOT SOME, THERE IS NO VOTE BETWEEN 8 PEOPLE.
09:59:42 ONE INDIVIDUAL HE OR SHE VOTES AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.
09:59:45 AND THEY GO OUT AND THEY MAKE IT HAPPEN THAT WAY.
09:59:50 NO GOVERNMENT GETS ELECTED 85 THE PERCENT TO 15% OR 99%
09:59:55 TO 1.
09:59:56 AND THAT HAPPENS IN THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD.
09:59:59 HERE WE HAVE A CLOSE BALLOT.
10:00:01 EVERYBODY WANTS TO SAY WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON BECAUSE
10:00:05 WE HAVE DEMOCRACY.
10:00:07 AND YOU WIN THE POPULAR VOTE AND YOU LOSE THE ELECTORAL
10:00:11 VOTE.
10:00:11 THAT'S DEMOCRACY.
10:00:12 THAT'S NOT RIGHT OR WRONG, THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS MADE
10:00:16 HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO.
10:00:18 AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
10:00:20 AFTER ALL THE TUGGING, ALL THE DRAGGING, ALL THE
10:00:23 MISINFORMATION BY BOTH SIDES, ALLEGEDLY, NOT THIS SIDE,
10:00:27 I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD, SOMEHOW DEMOCRACY WORKS IN
10:00:30 THIS COUNTRY.
10:00:34 AND MAYBE ANOTHER COUNTRY -- NAME ME ANOTHER COUNTRY THAT
10:00:40 HAS THE SAME FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
10:00:41 THINK ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME.
10:00:43 THERE AREN'T ANY, IN MY BOOK.
10:00:46 NONE WITH A STRUCTURAL LIKE THIS THAT SURVIVED THIS LONG.
10:00:49 NONE.
10:00:52 SO MAKE THIS AN ELECTION OF THE PEOPLE TO VOTE ON,
10:00:56 BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, COULD BE THAT THE SAME INDIVIDUALS
10:01:01 HERE AND NEXT DOOR WILL BE SEEKING OFFICE, ALL OF US OR
10:01:07 SOME OF US, BUT IT WOULD BE A POINT TO SPEAK ON WHERE I
10:01:12 GUARANTEE YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE LARGEST TURNOUT
10:01:15 POSSIBLY IN THE HISTORY OF THE CITY.
10:01:17 YOU SEE, WHEN I FIRST STARTED ON THIS THING, THERE WERE
10:01:21 MORE PEOPLE VOTING REPRESENTING THAN THERE IS NOW.
10:01:26 YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?
10:01:27 CHECK THE RECORDS.
10:01:31 WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU GO OUT AND GATHER MONEY TO BE GO TO
10:01:34 TV ADS OR GO TO DIRECT MAIL, BUT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO
10:01:38 VOTES.
10:01:39 SO YOU GO TO THE NEW TECHNOLOGY.
10:01:42 SEE, I'M FROM THE OLD SCHOOL.
10:01:46 AT SPAGHETTI DINNERS.
10:01:48 SOME OF YOU REMEMBER THAT.
10:01:49 SOME OF YOU DON'T.
10:01:50 WHAT HAPPENED TO THE YELLOW RICE AND CHICKEN DINNERS?
10:01:54 WHAT HAPPENED TO WHEN WE GO OUT TORN SPEAK TO THE ICE
10:01:58 FACTORIES AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE SHOW UP?
10:02:00 AND I SAID IT BEFORE, YOU HAVE TO -- NOW WE GOT LAZY.
10:02:06 WE WANTS TO STAY HOME.
10:02:07 WE GOT TV.
10:02:08 WE HAVE ALL THE AMENITIES.
10:02:10 WE HAVE AIR CONDITIONING.
10:02:11 WHEN I STARTED, FEW PEOPLE HAD AIR CONDITIONING.
10:02:15 THERE WAS NO DIRECT MAIL TO SPEAK OF.
10:02:17 AND LET ME TALK ABOUT ABSENTEE BALLOTS.
10:02:21 IN ORDER TO GET AN ABSENTEE BALLOT TO VOTE YOU HAD TO BE
10:02:25 OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY OR IN A HOSPITAL.
10:02:28 AND IT WORKED FOR A WHILE.
10:02:30 NOW, THE SAME GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TELL THE WORLD THAT WE
10:02:35 LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY, YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ABSENTEE BALLOT
10:02:39 AND YOU MAIL IT BACK.
10:02:42 YOU CAN'T HAVE A DROP BOX TO PUT IT IN.
10:02:44 WHEN THEY FIRST START OUT MAILING OUT BALLOTS TO YOUR
10:02:50 HOUSE, THEY PAID THE MAIL GOING IN AND YOU HAD TO PAY THE
10:02:53 89 CENTS GOING OUT.
10:02:57 NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
10:03:00 NOW THEY PAY THE MAIL COMING IN, RETURN MAIL GOING BACK
10:03:03 OUT.
10:03:07 SO YOU GET MORE PEOPLE IN DEMOCRACY.
10:03:12 DEMOCRACY IS LIKE A BALLOON FILLED WITH WATER.
10:03:15 ONE SIDE.
10:03:16 GRAB THE OTHER SIDE IT MOVES.
10:03:18 AND MAYBE THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT BECAUSE IF YOU ARE NOT
10:03:21 SATISFIED WITH THE BALLOON YOU POP IT.
10:03:23 AND THIS BALLOON I HOPE NEVER POPS BECAUSE IF IT DOES,
10:03:26 DEMOCRACY IS GONE IN THE WORLD.
10:03:30 LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN ISRAEL JUST THE OTHER DAY.
10:03:33 IT HAPPENED IN ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES THE OTHER DAY.
10:03:36 AND I AM NOT SINGLING OUT ISRAEL.
10:03:38 BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THIS ABOUT ANGER, NOT ANGER,
10:03:47 SOMEBODY WANTS TO HURT SOMEBODY.
10:03:48 NOBODY HURTS SOMEBODY, NOBODY HATES US.
10:03:50 THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION OF US.
10:03:53 AND I AM HAPPY WITH THAT.
10:03:55 NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE 100% CORRECT ALL THE TIME.
10:03:59 SOMEWHERE UP IN THE WORLD, NOT A DEMOCRACY, A
10:04:03 DICTATORSHIP.
10:04:05 HERE YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE GO MEET WITH THE
10:04:10 MAYOR AND DISCUSS THINGS OUT, TO SOME TYPE OF A
10:04:12 COMPROMISE.
10:04:12 WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR NOW, AND HAS BEEN ALLUDED TO SIMILAR
10:04:17 TO A ZONING HEARING, WHERE BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND
10:04:21 READING THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS ON WHETHER IT CHANGES THE
10:04:25 FACTS OF THE ORIGINAL HEARING.
10:04:28 THERE'S A CHANGE BEING MADE.
10:04:29 AND SOME OF THESE ARE VERY MINOR, AND CAN GO BETWEEN
10:04:32 FIRST, AND THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYS YOU CAN MAKE THAT
10:04:37 CHANGE AND IT CAN GO.
10:04:38 HOWEVER, DOING THIS, IN MY OPINION, SOLE OPINION, GOING
10:04:41 FROM THIS, AND FIRST OR SECOND READING, WITHOUT GOING
10:04:46 BACK TO FIRST READING, COULD BE A DETRIMENT TO WHAT WE
10:04:50 ARE TRYING TO DO.
10:04:55 IF THIS IS CHALLENGED AND IT LOSES, WHAT HAPPENS THEN?
10:04:58 ALL THESE THINGS NOT OF TODAY AND NOT OF TOMORROW BUT
10:05:03 WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, WHAT HAPPENED
10:05:05 YESTERDAY, TODAY, TOMORROW, AND IN THE FUTURE, IS WE
10:05:09 OUGHT TO LOOK AT, NOT JUST FOR GETTING THIS OFF THE
10:05:12 TABLE, TO SAY NOBODY WON, NOBODY LOST, WE ARE HAPPY.
10:05:17 IT'S TAKING A RISK THAT I WILL NOT TAKE.
10:05:22 BECAUSE IF THIS IS CHALLENGED, THEN THIS IS ANOTHER
10:05:27 TUG-OF-WAR.
10:05:30 AND I DON'T MEAN PHYSICAL TUG-OF-WAR.
10:05:35 I WANT THIS, IF WE ARE REALLY, REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE
10:05:38 FUTURE OF THIS DOCUMENT THAT WE HAVE AND THE STRONG MAYOR
10:05:43 FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN THE CITY -- AND I BELIEVE IN THAT.
10:05:45 I BELIEVE IN A STRONG MAYOR OF THIS CITY.
10:05:49 AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY.
10:05:51 IT PINPOINTS RESPONSIBILITIES.
10:05:53 AND HE OR SHE, WHOEVER SITS IN THAT OFFICE, IS THE ONE
10:05:58 THAT'S GOT TO MAKE THE CHOICE OF HAVING WHAT TYPE OF
10:06:02 PERSON THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS CITY.
10:06:05 SO THAT'S HOW I FEEL.
10:06:09 AND I FEEL WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES, A, TO APPROVE OR
10:06:13 DISAPPROVE DEPARTMENT HEADS AT TIME OF AN ELECTION THAT'S
10:06:17 COMING UP IN A FEW MONTHS, LESS THAN TWO YEARS.
10:06:25 THE URGENCY IS HERE, BUT IS IT GOING TO TEAR A CHAPTER
10:06:31 OUT OF THE FOUR YEARS THAT THIS GOVERNMENT SERVES
10:06:35 TOGETHER?
10:06:35 I DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL.
10:06:37 BUT IT COULD.
10:06:39 SO TO TAKE A RISK OF THAT SIZE OVER ONE VOTE -- AND
10:06:45 SOMETIMES ONE VOTE MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
10:06:47 A BIG DIFFERENCE.
10:06:48 AND IT'S NOT ONE VOTE.
10:06:50 IT'S ONE VOTE THAT CHANGES, CHANGE OF THE FUTURE OF
10:06:56 THINGS THAT COME FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
10:06:59 AND THEREFORE I AM NOT WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE RIGHT
10:07:01 NOW WITH WHAT I THINK CAN HAPPEN.
10:07:05 I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PUT OFF TO A CHARTER CHANGE.
10:07:08 AND LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
10:07:09 LET THE PUBLIC VOTE ON SOMETHING THAT IS SO DELICATE THAT
10:07:14 WILL PUT THE RECORD STRAIGHT FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS
10:07:19 TO COME.
10:07:20 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:07:21 >>LUIS VIERA: MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY.
10:07:27 I WANT TO ANNOUNCE THAT I AM LEAVING.
10:07:29 I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
10:07:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES: OKAY, SIR.
10:07:32 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:07:32 >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU.
10:07:34 PARDON ME.
10:07:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES: LET ME SAY THIS, GENTLEMEN.
10:07:37 WHEN I FIRST BECAME A PART OF THIS COUNCIL, YOU ALWAYS
10:07:41 HEARD OF CHARLIE MIRANDA.
10:07:43 YOU HEAR ME AT TIMES CALL HIM A LEGEND.
10:07:48 SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN AROUND THIS COUNCIL A LONG, LONG
10:07:50 TIME AND SEEN IT ALL.
10:07:54 WHEN I FIRST CAME ON THIS COUNCIL, AND VOTED ONE WAY AND
10:08:01 MR. MIRANDA VOTED ONE WAY, AND EVERYBODY VOTES.
10:08:04 MR. MIRANDA, I DON'T CARE HOW ANYBODY VOTES.
10:08:10 IT'S YOUR VOTE.
10:08:13 WHATEVER VOTE YOU MADE, IT'S YOUR VOTE.
10:08:16 AND I EXPECTED IT EVER SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THIS COUNCIL
10:08:19 TO NEVER GET MAD HOW SOMEBODY VOTED, BECAUSE YOU DON'T
10:08:22 KNOW THEIR REASON WHY THEY VOTE.
10:08:26 SO I THANK YOU FOR THAT, SIR.
10:08:28 NUMBER TWO, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT COMPROMISE, THE LEGEND
10:08:31 CAME AGAIN WHEN WE ARE REVEALING WITH THE BUDGET IN
10:08:37 REFERENCE TO THE FIRE RESCUE IN EAST TAMPA.
10:08:44 GOING BACK AND FORTH, AND THE LEGEND STEPPED IN AGAIN AND
10:08:46 ASKED FOR A RECESS.
10:08:49 AND WENT IN BACK AND MET WITH MR. BENNETT, TOLD MR.
10:08:55 BENNETT, COME AWAY WITH A COMPROMISE, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
10:09:02 IT HAPPENED.
10:09:02 I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO ANY CHARTER ISSUES.
10:09:04 I REALLY DIDN'T.
10:09:05 BUT WANTED TO CHIME IN ON THAT.
10:09:09 AGAIN THE LEGEND SPOKE ABOUT THE PEOPLE.
10:09:14 IT'S THE PEOPLE'S POLICE DEPARTMENT.
10:09:15 IT'S THE PEOPLE'S WATER DEPARTMENT.
10:09:18 IT'S NOT OURS.
10:09:21 MANY TIMES YOU HEARD ME SAY THAT DELEGATING ON A
10:09:25 SITUATION, I SAID OUR CHARTER IS A LITTLE BIT OUTDATED.
10:09:28 EVEN THOUGH WE HAD A BE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, WE
10:09:31 DIDN'T GO THROUGH EVERYTHING IN THAT CHARTER, AND
10:09:33 SOMETIMES WE WERE KIND OF UPSET BECAUSE WE WERE
10:09:36 STONEWALLED ON TRYING TO DO SOME STUFF.
10:09:39 AND THE COUNCILMEN WHO WERE HERE, WE GET FRUSTRATED
10:09:44 BECAUSE OF WHAT PEOPLE FEEL A STRONG FORM OF GOVERNMENT
10:09:48 IS.
10:09:48 THERE IS NOTHING IN OUR CHARTER ABOUT A STRONG FORM OF
10:09:51 GOVERNMENT.
10:09:51 IT SAYS TWO BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.
10:09:53 I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING STRONG MAYOR.
10:09:55 I GUESS PEOPLE COME UP WITH WORDS, AND IT'S BEEN THAT
10:09:59 WAY.
10:10:00 IT'S THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT.
10:10:03 AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING TAKING A AWAY STORM MAYOR FORM OF
10:10:08 GOVERNMENT.
10:10:09 BUT WHAT I AM SAYING WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW WE LEGISLATE
10:10:12 HOW THE ADMINISTRATION DOES POLICY, I SAID THIS MANY
10:10:14 TIMES, IT BECOMES CONTRADICTORY SOMETIMES.
10:10:18 IT BECOMES INTERPRETATION.
10:10:21 THAT'S WHY FOR THE LAST MONTHS BEFORE WE GOT TO THIS
10:10:24 ISSUE IN REFERENCE TO POLICE ISSUE OR WHATEVER, I HAVE
10:10:27 ALWAYS SAID WE HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE CHARTER
10:10:30 AS IT RELATES TO INTERPRETATION OF TWO BRANCHES OF
10:10:33 GOVERNMENT.
10:10:35 NOW THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.
10:10:37 AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, NOT ONLY THESE ISSUES BUT IT'S
10:10:42 GOING TO HAPPEN WITH MS. GRIMES, AND MR. SHELBY,
10:10:46 ADMINISTRATION DOWN THE ROAD, INTERPRETATIONS OF CERTAIN
10:10:48 THINGS IN THE CHARTER.
10:10:49 THAT HAS TO BE CLEARED UP.
10:10:51 SO I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
10:10:53 MR. SHELBY, I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES IT HAS TO BE DONE AND
10:10:56 IT'S GOT TO GET DONE.
10:10:57 THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD.
10:11:00 WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEPARTMENT HEADS, MR. LEGEND IS RIGHT
10:11:05 AGAIN.
10:11:05 THIS BODY, BEFORE ANY DEPARTMENT HEAD BECOMES OWNERSHIP
10:11:09 OF THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, WE HAVE TO EMPOWER THEM.
10:11:13 MANY TIMES, I TELL PEOPLE, THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE MAYOR
10:11:17 ARE THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT POSITIONS OF THIS CITY.
10:11:21 EVERYBODY RELIES ON THE POLICE CHIEF, THE POLICE
10:11:24 DEPARTMENT, TO SERVE SAFETY.
10:11:29 RESCUE TIME, THEY DO IT ALL.
10:11:33 THEY DON'T JUST DO ONE JOB.
10:11:34 THE WATER DEPARTMENT, THE POLICEMAN IS THE PERSON IN THAT
10:11:40 PARTICULAR TIME BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DISTRESSED AND IN NEED
10:11:43 AND SO THE POLICEMAN HAS TO FIND A WAY TO DO IT.
10:11:47 BEEN THERE.
10:11:47 UNDERSTAND THAT.
10:11:51 I ALWAYS WONDERED, IT'S BEEN A THING TO YOU TALK ABOUT
10:11:55 APPOINTMENTS THAT ARE COME FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.
10:11:59 I HAVE NEVER SEEN COUNCIL QUESTION IT, THEY JUST RUBBER
10:12:02 STAMP AND IT GOES ON.
10:12:04 THERE'S NEVER ANY CONFIRMATION OF MEETING WITH THOSE
10:12:06 DEPARTMENT HEADS THAT COME BEFORE THIS BODY TO SEE IF
10:12:10 THIS BODY LIKES THAT PERSON.
10:12:12 THEY JUST SAY, WELL, WE WILL GO WITH WHATEVER THE
10:12:14 ADMINISTRATION SAYS.
10:12:16 MR. MIRANDA LEGEND BRINGS UP A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS,
10:12:19 GENTLEMEN.
10:12:20 AND THOSE ISSUES HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH DOWN THE ROAD.
10:12:23 BUT TODAY WE HAVE GOT TO KIND OF COME UP WITH SOMETHING
10:12:26 TO GET THIS GOING, AND THEN DOWN THE ROAD, LIKE MR.
10:12:30 MIRANDA SAID, IT'S GOT TO COME TO THAT POINT AND IT HAS.
10:12:35 TIME IS CHANGING.
10:12:36 HE'S SEEN IT ALL.
10:12:38 SO I WANT TO KIND OF BRING IT TO A LANDING.
10:12:41 KEEP TO THE AT LEAST UNDER AN HOUR AND A HALF SO THE
10:12:45 ADMINISTRATION CAN KIND OF SEE WHERE THIS COUNCIL IS
10:12:47 HEADED.
10:12:50 FOR ME, I AM WILLING TO TRY TO MAKE A COMPROMISE NOW, AND
10:12:54 THEN TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES DOWN THE ROAD, LIKE
10:12:58 YOU SAID, 2022, AND PUT ALL THIS TO BED.
10:13:03 THE INTERPRETATION OF ANYTHING IN THAT CHARTER, BE IT
10:13:06 DEPARTMENT HEAD, ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE -- WE SERVE AT
10:13:10 THE PLEASURE OF THE VOTERS.
10:13:11 HE'S RIGHT.
10:13:12 THERE ARE 8 ELECTED VOTE OFFICIALS IN THE CITY AND WE
10:13:16 SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PEOPLE.
10:13:17 IT'S THEIR HOUSE.
10:13:18 THIS IS THE HOUSE -- IT'S THEIR HOUSE.
10:13:22 I THINK THEY DESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THEIR
10:13:25 HOUSE.
10:13:28 WE HAVE HAD OUR FIRST ROUND.
10:13:30 I HAVE KIND OF TAKEN SOME NOTES ON WHAT I SEE THAT
10:13:34 THURSDAY COULD GO.
10:13:40 WHEN I DO THE NUMBERS, I SEE ONE ON A 5-5, AND MR.
10:13:46 MIRANDA MADE HIS STATEMENTS ON HOW HE FEELS, AND HE
10:13:49 DOESN'T FEEL IT NEEDS TO BE -- THE LEGAL ASPECT OF IT,
10:13:55 BELIEVES THERE COULD BE A CHALLENGE, ON A BUNCH OF
10:13:57 ASPECTS.
10:14:01 I THINK HE COULD BE RIGHT.
10:14:03 I THINK -- I KNOW THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYS -- DO WE WANT TO
10:14:10 SPEND THE TIME ON IT?
10:14:12 I HAVE GOT HOUSING ISSUES, GENTLEMEN.
10:14:16 I WANT TO WRAP IT UP.
10:14:19 I WANT TO KEEP IT AT AN HOUR AND A HALF.
10:14:22 I WANT TO TAKE FINAL COMMENTS.
10:14:24 THAT WAY I HAVE MY MIND, I WILL LET JOHN BENNETT HAVE THE
10:14:28 LAST PORTION SAY.
10:14:29 MR. MANISCALCO.
10:14:30 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:14:31 AND I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS.
10:14:36 YOU KNOW, THE 5-5-1 SPLIT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, LIKE
10:14:43 YOU SAID, I HAVE OTHER THINGS.
10:14:45 I HAVE HOUSING ISSUES TO WORRY ABOUT.
10:14:46 WE HAVE BIGGER -- WE HAVE BIG ISSUES IN THIS CITY TO
10:14:49 WORRY ABOUT.
10:14:50 I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE ROAD OF A LAWSUIT, OR, YOU
10:14:57 KNOW, MORE STRIFE AND DIVISION, ESPECIALLY GOING INTO THE
10:15:00 BUDGET SEASON WHICH IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, AND WE
10:15:03 HAVE A LOT OF STUFF COMING UP.
10:15:06 THE 5-5-1 IS IT FAIR?
10:15:10 IT BRINGS A BALANCE, SOMETHING THAT YOU MENTIONED,
10:15:12 COUNCILMAN MIRANDA MENTIONED.
10:15:14 REGARDING DEPARTMENT HEADS.
10:15:16 YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR APPOINTS THE CHIEF, BUT THE CHIEF
10:15:20 NEEDS THE APPROVAL OF CITY COUNCIL.
10:15:22 SO THERE IS A CHECK AND BALANCE, AND IT'S NOT -- THE
10:15:26 POLICE DEPARTMENT RUNS THE SHOW AGAIN, IT GOES TO --
10:15:31 COMES TO US, COMES TO THE MAYOR, DIFFERENT SIGNATURES ARE
10:15:34 REQUIRED AND APPROVAL, CHECKS AND BALANCE.
10:15:37 THE 5-5-1, I GET IT.
10:15:41 THAT ONE THING THE NAACP MEMBER, THAT ONE BEING THAT IT
10:15:45 NEEDS TO BE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, SO REALLY WE HAVE
10:15:50 THAT MAJORITY,
10:15:52 6-5.
10:15:53 AT THE END OF THE DATE WHY NOT A 7-4, WHY NOT THIS?
10:15:57 BUT WE ARE DEALING WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES, AND
10:16:00 DIFFERENT FEARS, AND WHATNOT.
10:16:03 AGAIN, WHAT DOES THE BOARD THINK ABOUT IT?
10:16:06 THE CRB BOARD?
10:16:08 HOW DO THEY FEEL?
10:16:09 WHAT DO THEY WANT?
10:16:10 WHAT TOOLS ARE IN THE TOOL BOX?
10:16:12 THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB.
10:16:15 WHAT WAS PROPOSED TO US, AND THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT
10:16:17 CHANGES, IF WE CALL IT THE MAY ORDINANCE OR WHATEVER,
10:16:22 BASICALLY THE ONLY THING THAT AT A STALEMATE ARE THE
10:16:30 APPOINTMENTS.
10:16:30 THE OTHER THING WE ESSENTIALLY AGREE UPON, SHOULD WE
10:16:34 REVISIT IN THE FUTURE IF THINGS ARE NOT WORKING? WE CAN
10:16:36 DO THAT.
10:16:37 CAN WE PUT THINGS ON THE BALLOT, AS COUNCILMAN.
10:16:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WE CAN DO THAT AND LET THE PEOPLE
10:16:42 VOTE.
10:16:42 BUT TO BRING THIS TO BED, I MEAN, WE ARE REPEALING AND
10:16:45 REPLACING WHAT WAS PUT IN IN 2015, SO THERE ARE CHANGES.
10:16:49 THERE'S OTHER MODIFICATIONS THAT PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT AND
10:16:52 WHAT MAKES THIS ORDINANCE DIFFERENT AND BETTER.
10:16:54 BUT BASICALLY COMES DOWN TO THE APPOINTMENTS.
10:16:59 AGAIN, I AM NOT LOOKING TO FIGHT.
10:17:01 I AM NOT LOOKING TO FLEX ANY MUSCLE.
10:17:03 I DON'T HAVE MUCH.
10:17:04 BUT I AM NOT LOOKING TO DO A POWER PLAY HERE.
10:17:08 I AM JUST LOOKING TO PUT THIS TO BED AND MOVE FORWARD
10:17:11 AGAIN.
10:17:12 I HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THIS FOR SIX YEARS.
10:17:15 WE HAD SOMETHING, MAYBE IT'S NOT GOOD.
10:17:18 WE ARE REPLACING IT, REPEALING THE PREVIOUS WITH
10:17:20 SOMETHING BETTER.
10:17:22 AND AGAIN IN THE FUTURE, ANOTHER COUNCIL CAN DECIDE
10:17:25 DIFFERENTLY, ANOTHER COUNCIL CAN ADD MORE TO IT, THE CRB
10:17:30 BOARD MEMBERS CAN SAY THEY HAVE CONCERNS THAT THEY WANT
10:17:36 TO ADDRESS AND THEY CAN CHANGE IN THE FUTURE.
10:17:39 WE LET A FUTURE MAYOR, A FUTURE COUNCIL DECIDE OR TAKE IT
10:17:42 TO THE BALLOT ON OTHER BIGGER ISSUES.
10:17:44 AND THAT'S IT.
10:17:45 THANK YOU.
10:17:46 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CARLSON, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:17:50 >>BILL CARLSON: THANK YOU, SIR.
10:17:54 FOR THE PUBLIC WATCHING, AND WE SPENT A YEAR TRYING TO
10:17:58 MAKE SURE -- FOR THE PUBLIC AND THE POLICE, WE WANT TO BE
10:18:03 FAIR TO EVERYONE, AND WE HAVE ADDED A LOT OF THAT IN
10:18:05 HERE.
10:18:08 WHAT YOU WITH SEEN PLAY OUT AND IN THE MEETING BEFORE FOR
10:18:12 ANYBODY THAT'S WATCHED IS WE ARE AT THE END OF THE
10:18:14 NEGOTIATIONS ON THIS ROUND.
10:18:16 IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE THAT WE CAN ADD SOMETHING ELSE IN
10:18:19 THE FUTURE AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID.
10:18:21 BUT IN THIS ROUND, WE HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND
10:18:25 FORTH, BACK AND FORTH.
10:18:27 THIS IS AS FAR AS WE CAN GET IN THIS ROUND.
10:18:32 THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IF WE CHANGE THE VOTING,
10:18:36 WE HAVE TO USE THE MAY VERSION.
10:18:38 AND WE NEED A NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT SUPERSEDES THE
10:18:45 ORDINANCE AND THE EXECUTIVE ORDER SUPERSEDES.
10:18:47 MR. BENNETT, DO WE HAVE A COPY OF THE EXECUTIVE ORDER?
10:18:50 AND WOULD THERE BE A NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER OR HOW?
10:18:53 >>JOHN BENNETT: I KNOW THAT THE MAY VERSION IS
10:18:59 AVAILABLE.
10:19:00 I WOULD NOTIFY LEGAL AND MAKE SURE THE EXECUTIVE ORDER IS
10:19:04 READY OR COULD BE PREPARED FOR THURSDAY.
10:19:06 >>BILL CARLSON: BECAUSE WE COULD SEE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW
10:19:09 THE VOTE IS GOING TO GO DOWN BUT REAFFIRMS 5-5.
10:19:20 >>GINA GRIMES: THE EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS A DRAFT THAT WAS
10:19:22 PROVIDED IN NOVEMBER.
10:19:25 REVISE IT, PROVIDED IT IN FEBRUARY.
10:19:31 I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS PROVIDED IN THE MAY MEETING BUT IT
10:19:35 WAS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED, MR. CARLSON, AND I AM HAPPY TO
10:19:39 E-MAIL YOU A COPY.
10:19:40 >>BILL CARLSON: IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND E-MAIL US AND ALSO
10:19:44 POST IT TO SIRE SO THE PUBLIC CAN SEE IT AND THEN PEOPLE
10:19:47 CAN SEE THAT WHATEVER LANGUAGE IS IN BOTH OF THEM THAT
10:19:50 SUPERSEDES THE OLD PART OF IT.
10:19:52 BUT THANK YOU ALL FOR WORKING ON THIS.
10:19:56 ONE OTHER LAST POINT, AND JUST TO CLARIFY THE PRESS
10:20:00 CONFERENCE FROM A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
10:20:01 I DON'T THINK WE HAVE MS. GRIMES OR THE CLERK CAN CORRECT
10:20:05 ME, BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE SUBPOENA POWER UP ON ANY
10:20:09 AGENDA.
10:20:09 IS THAT CORRECT?
10:20:10 WE ONLY HAVE -- WE PUT A FEBRUARY WORKSHOP TO TALK ABOUT
10:20:16 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL BUT NOT SUBPOENA POWER.
10:20:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:20:22 MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
10:20:24 I HAVE THE CALENDAR IN FRONT OF ME AND CERTAINLY THE
10:20:26 CLERK CAN CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT ON FEBRUARY
10:20:28 24th, YOUR CALENDAR READS AS FOLLOWS, AND BOTH OF
10:20:33 THEM AT 9 A.M., BESIDES THE PRESENTATION OF THE
10:20:36 COMMENDATION OF THE OFFICERS OF THE MONTH, A CONTINUED
10:20:39 WORKSHOP, MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY AND LEGAL
10:20:43 DEPARTMENT TO PRESENT A DRAFT ORDINANCE REGARDING THE
10:20:45 CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD DISCRETION TO HIRE OR RETAIN
10:20:48 INDEPENDENT COUNSEL THAT WOULD BE PRESENTED AS A CHARTER
10:20:51 QUESTION FOR CITIZENS AND THE COMPANION THAT FOLLOWS
10:20:54 WORKSHOP.
10:20:55 COUNCIL COULD DISCUSS ANY PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT
10:20:57 CHANGES TO THE CITY CHARTER.
10:20:59 THOSE ARE THE TWO SEPARATE ITEMS THAT COUNCIL HAD ADDED.
10:21:02 >>BILL CARLSON: JUST TO CLARIFY, SO WE DON'T HAVE
10:21:06 ANOTHER PRESS CONFERENCE, THE SUBPOENA POWER IS NOT --
10:21:10 THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WANT IT BUT WE WERE TOLD BY THE
10:21:14 CITY ATTORNEY THAT WE CAN'T JUST ADD IT WITHOUT A CHARTER
10:21:18 AMENDMENT, WE CAN ANYTIME BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION ADD IT
10:21:22 AS A CHARTER AMENDMENT, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW THE
10:21:25 ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T WANT US TO BRING IT, TO PUT IT ON
10:21:28 THE AGENDA SO WE HAVEN'T PUT IT ON THE AGENDA YET.
10:21:30 THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IS ON THE AGENDA.
10:21:32 THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD ASK IS IF AT SOME POINT
10:21:35 SOMEBODY MAKES A MOTION TO TAKE THAT OFF THE AGENDA, I
10:21:37 THINK WE OUGHT TO LEAVE THE PLACEHOLDER DISCUSSION FOR
10:21:40 ANY OTHER CHARTER DISCUSSIONS, THE PURPOSE OF THAT WAS SO
10:21:44 WE WOULDN'T HAVE MULTIPLE MEETINGS TO TALK ABOUT CHARTER
10:21:46 AMENDMENT, WE WOULD ONLY HAVE ONE AND IF THAT'S NOT THE
10:21:49 RIGHT DATE WE COULD MOVE IT BUT IF WE COULD SEPARATE
10:21:53 THOSE TWO ISSUES.
10:21:54 BUT I APPRECIATE CHIEF BENNETT AND CHAIR GUDES FOR
10:21:58 GETTING US TO THIS POINT.
10:21:59 THANK YOU.
10:22:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CARLSON, I THOUGHT I WOULD
10:22:03 ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THURSDAY TO STRIKE THE ONE, BUT THE
10:22:06 LATTER HAS TO BE DONE TO RETAIN THE WHOLE CHARTER, SO MR.
10:22:11 SHELBY AND MRS. GRIMES TO GIVE REFERENCE TO THE ALCOHOL
10:22:16 CHARTER BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME INTERPRETATIONS WE MUST
10:22:19 CLEAR UP.
10:22:19 MR. CITRO, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:22:22 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I KNOW YOU HAVE YOUR
10:22:24 SAYING DON'T TELL ME WHAT YOU CAN'T DO, TELL ME WHAT YOU
10:22:27 CAN DO.
10:22:27 >>ORLANDO GUDES: CORRECT.
10:22:28 >>JOSEPH CITRO: AND YOU HEARD MY SAYING, SAYING DIALOGUE
10:22:31 WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING.
10:22:32 THANK YOU FOR OPENING THIS DIALOGUE.
10:22:34 THANK THE MAYOR FOR OPENING THIS DIALOGUE.
10:22:36 AGAIN, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS RIP AND REPLACE, GO
10:22:44 BACK TO THE MAY ORDINANCE,AND DO A 6-5-1 OF APPOINTEES TO
10:22:54 A CRB, 6 FROM CITY COUNCIL, 4 FROM THE MAYOR, AND THAT
10:22:58 THE COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS AGAIN WHETHER IT BE NAACP OR ANY
10:23:03 OTHER ACTIVIST BE APPOINTED BY THE COUNCIL AS A WHOLE.
10:23:11 GENTLEMEN, I FEEL THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR BEST WAY
10:23:15 OF GOING ABOUT IT.
10:23:19 LET THE BOARD COME BACK TO US ONCE A YEAR AND LET US KNOW
10:23:27 WHAT THEY WANT, WHAT THEY LIKE, WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE.
10:23:32 LET'S LET THIS BE ORGANIC.
10:23:34 LET'S LET THE BOARD GO ON ITS OWN.
10:23:36 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
10:23:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. DINGFELDER, RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:23:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, YOU STARTED
10:23:43 BY SAYING 6-5-1.
10:23:45 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I KNOW THAT.
10:23:46 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOHN.
10:23:47 6-4-1.
10:23:49 THAT MAKES 11.
10:23:50 I MISSPOKE MY FIRST TIME AROUND.
10:23:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE RECORD
10:23:54 WAS CLEAR.
10:23:56 I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD BEYOND WHAT I
10:23:59 SAID BEFORE, MR. CHAIRMAN, BUT I WILL SAY -- AND I HAVE
10:24:03 SPOKEN REQUEST MS. GRIMES ABOUT B THIS.
10:24:07 I KNOW SHE HAS SOME ISSUES WITH THE TERM INDEPENDENT
10:24:11 COUNSEL VERSUS OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
10:24:13 AND MAYBE SHE WAS RIGHT ON.
10:24:16 THAT SO IF AND WHEN WE EVER GOT TO THAT DISCUSSION IN
10:24:19 FEBRUARY, THEN PERHAPS A BETTER TERM MIGHT BE OUTSIDE
10:24:24 COUNSEL.
10:24:24 KIND OF SPLITTING HAIRS.
10:24:27 BUT AGAIN, AS I STATED EARLIER, AND I MENTIONED TO MR.
10:24:32 BENNETT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I THINK THAT, AND WITH ALL
10:24:37 DUE RESPECT, MR. CARLSON, THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM SEEMS
10:24:40 TO BE SUBPOENA POWER, SO MIGHT AS WELL ADDRESS IT.
10:24:44 I THINK IF THOSE ARE BIG ISSUES TO THE ADMINISTRATION,
10:24:47 AND PBA, WHAT HAVE YOU, THEN THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE
10:24:52 COULD POTENTIALLY NOT DEAL WITH DURING THIS 4-YEAR TERM.
10:24:57 I'M OKAY WITH THAT.
10:24:58 I DO THINK THE ORDINANCE HAS COME A LONG WAY.
10:25:05 BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO COME OUT OF ALL
10:25:08 OF THIS IS WHO ARE WE AND WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?
10:25:14 YOU KNOW.
10:25:15 BECAUSE IF WE ARE NOT THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, REGARDLESS IF
10:25:20 YOU WANT TO CALL THIS A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT,
10:25:23 WEAK FORM OF GOVERNMENT, WHAT HAVE YOU, IF WE ARE NOT THE
10:25:26 LEGISLATIVE BODY TO MAKE THE LEGISLATIVE DECISIONS ON
10:25:29 BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS WHO ARE IN TOUCH WITH US
10:25:32 EVERYWHERE, IN THE GROCERY STORE, IN THE DRUGSTORE, ON
10:25:35 THE STREET, ON THE PHONE, BY E-MAIL, ET CETERA, BECAUSE
10:25:39 WE ARE THE DAY-TO-DAY CONNECTION WITH THIS COMMUNITY.
10:25:43 AND THEREFORE IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR US TO BE THE
10:25:45 LEGISLATIVE BODY, AND WE SHOULD BE MAKING THESE
10:25:47 DECISIONS, AND ONCE WE HAVE MADE THEM, WE SHOULD STICK
10:25:50 WITH THEM UNLESS THERE'S SOME COMPELLING REASON NOT TO.
10:25:54 SO I AM COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS OF THE
10:25:57 DECISION WE MADE BACK IN MAY 5-2, AND I THINK THAT WE
10:26:03 SHOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
10:26:05 BUT WITH THAT SAID, I THINK AS A MATTER OF COMPROMISE, IF
10:26:10 THE OTHER TWO ISSUES OF OUTSIDE COUNSEL AND SUBPOENA
10:26:13 POWER, I THINK COULD BE DEALT WITH ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER
10:26:16 YEAR.
10:26:16 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. MIRANDA, THEN TO MR. SHELBY FOR HIS
10:26:22 COMMENTS.
10:26:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I HAVE SAID ENOUGH AND I HAVE HEARD
10:26:25 ENOUGH.
10:26:25 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU.
10:26:28 MR. SHELBY.
10:26:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: MR. CHAIRMAN, THE ONLY THING I WOULD
10:26:32 ADD, MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, THANK YOU FOR
10:26:36 YOUR DISCUSSION.
10:26:37 AGAIN, MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND
10:26:39 INCLUDING ME IN THE MEETING.
10:26:42 I APPRECIATE VERY MUCH TO SEE TWO BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT
10:26:46 WORKING COLLABORATIVELY TOGETHER AND WORKING CORDIALLY
10:26:50 TOGETHER AND I APPRECIATE YOUR OPPORTUNITY TODAY AND THE
10:26:52 PUBLIC FORUM TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AMONG
10:26:55 YOURSELVES SO THE PUBLIC IS CLEAR ON THE DECISIONS THAT
10:26:59 YOU ARE GOING TO BE MAKING ON THURSDAY.
10:27:03 IF THERE IS THE ABILITY FOR YOU TO COME TO A CONSENSUS,
10:27:07 COUNCIL, IT MAY BE TO YOUR ADVANTAGE TO BE ABLE TO COME
10:27:10 TO A CONSENSUS TODAY.
10:27:12 YOU HAVE THE CHIEF OF STAFF PRESENT IN THE ROOM, IF THERE
10:27:16 IS A QUESTION AS TO THE ADMINISTRATION'S POSITION, YOU
10:27:18 HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET CLEAR ON AT THE TIME, AND
10:27:22 IMPORTANTLY BY THE END OF THIS MEETING IF IT'S THE
10:27:24 CHAIR'S INTENTION TO DO SO, EVEN THOUGH YOU CANNOT TAKE
10:27:27 OFFICIAL ACTION, YOU CAN TELEGRAPH WHAT THE CONSENSUS OF
10:27:30 THIS BOARD IS, OF WHAT THE OFFICIAL ACTION WILL BE ON
10:27:33 THURSDAY, SO THERE ARE NO SURPRISES TO ANYBODY, AND THE
10:27:36 PUBLIC CERTAINLY WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE INPUT
10:27:39 AT A PUBLIC HEARING AS THEY WOULD BE BEFORE YOU TAKE
10:27:42 FINAL ACTION.
10:27:42 SO PLEASE TAKE ADVANTAGE, IF COUNCIL IS CAPABLE --
10:27:47 FORGIVE ME TO USE THE WORD CAPABLE -- TO FORMULATE A
10:27:51 CONSENSUS TO CONVEY TO MR. BENNETT AND HAVE MR. BENNETT'S
10:27:55 RESPONSE AND PERHAPS GET SOME SORT OF ASSURANCE FROM HIM
10:27:58 OF WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION'S POSITION BE IS OR WOULD BE
10:28:00 PERHAPS ON THAT CONSENSUS.
10:28:01 >>ORLANDO GUDES: I WAS GOING TO DO THAT, MR. SHELBY.
10:28:06 HE'S THE NUMBER TWO MAN IN THE CITY.
10:28:08 HE HAS THE MAYOR'S EARS AND HEARD FROM COUNCIL TODAY.
10:28:12 I AM SURE HE WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE BACK SOME OF WHAT HE'S
10:28:14 HEARD.
10:28:15 WE ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE.
10:28:16 I DON'T THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS -- IT'S NOT A WIN FOR
10:28:19 HER OR US. THIS IS MAKING THE CITY GO IN THE RIGHT PATH.
10:28:25 MR. BENNETT, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:28:27 >>JOHN BENNETT: CHIEF OF STAFF.
10:28:30 THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN, FOR PULLING THIS SPECIAL CALLED
10:28:33 MEETING TOGETHER.
10:28:33 THANKS, MR. SHELBY, FOR WORKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION
10:28:36 AS WELL OFFLINE ESPECIALLY.
10:28:38 THANKS TO OUR STAFF FOR THE LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT TO DATE.
10:28:41 I WILL BE VERY PRESCRIPTIVE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND FROM
10:28:45 THE COLLECTIVE OF THE ADMINISTRATION.
10:28:48 I DON'T NEED TO REHASH AGAIN THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT WE
10:28:52 FELT.
10:28:53 WE WORKED COLLABORATIVELY TOGETHER WITH ALL FACETS OF THE
10:28:58 COMMUNITY TO BRING US WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
10:29:00 I WILL SAY THOUGH THAT WHEN YOU SERVE A CITY OF THIS SIZE
10:29:04 AND THIS MAGNITUDE, I HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF
10:29:10 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
10:29:11 THERE'S BEEN FOUR POLICE ADMINISTRATIONS UP TO THIS POINT
10:29:15 SINCE WE CHANGED THE MISSION STATEMENT AND REDUCED CRIME
10:29:18 BY 80% IN THIS CITY, AND TO SUSTAIN THAT.
10:29:24 I THINK THE VALUE HERE IS IN MY OPINION THE EXPERIENCE OF
10:29:28 THE MAYOR WHEN SHE SAID, ONE, IT'S TIME TO PROGRESS THE
10:29:33 ORDINANCE, AND WAS WILLING TO RIP AND REPLACE IT AND
10:29:36 BRING IN A NEW ORDINANCE, SIGNED BY THE MAYOR, AFTER THE
10:29:40 APPROVAL AND ADOPTION FROM COUNCIL, AND COMPLEMENT THAT
10:29:44 WITH THE APPROPRIATE EXECUTIVE ORDER TO ALLOW NOT ONLY
10:29:46 PROGRESS TODAY BUT PROGRESS IN THE FUTURE.
10:29:50 THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF ADDITIONAL PROGRESS.
10:29:52 IF WE ARE NOT CONTINUING TO IMPROVE, WE ARE SITTING
10:29:54 STILL.
10:29:54 AND IF WE ARE SITTING STILL WE ARE GOING BACKWARDS.
10:29:57 SO I THINK THAT'S THE ELEMENT OF PROGRESS.
10:29:59 I THINK THE ELEMENT OF UNBIASED AND BALANCE COMES DOWN TO
10:30:04 THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD.
10:30:05 THE MAYOR CLEARLY GAVE UP A 7-4 FOR THE RECOMMENDATION
10:30:11 TODAY, AND BEING VERY PRESCRIPTIVE ON THE 5-5-1, FIVE
10:30:17 RECOMMENDATIONS FROM COUNCIL, FIVE FROM THE MAYOR, AND
10:30:19 ONE RECOMMENDED AND CONFIRMED BY COUNCIL OR THE
10:30:22 ADMINISTRATION AND CONFIRMED BY COUNCIL OR THE
10:30:24 ADMINISTRATION.
10:30:25 AND I THINK THERE'S VALUE IN THAT FOR THE FOLLOWING
10:30:28 REASON, AND ESPECIALLY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
10:30:32 YES, LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMENTS TO DO THEIR JOB AND THEY
10:30:34 ARE GOING TO ENFORCE THE LAW.
10:30:36 BUT I THINK THE DIFFERENCE COMES DOWN TO LEADERSHIP.
10:30:38 WE ALL KNOW THAT WHATEVER TEAM YOU ARE MANAGING OR
10:30:41 COACHING, IT COMES DOWN TO LEADERSHIP AS THE DIFFERENCE
10:30:44 MAKER, IN THE COMMUNITY, AND THIS DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN LED
10:30:48 BY GREAT LEADERSHIP AND ELECTED POSITIONS, PARTNERS IN
10:30:53 THE COMMUNITY, THE PUBLIC AND OF COURSE THE VERY OFFICERS
10:30:56 THAT ARE DOING THE WORK ON THE FOLLOWING, AND THE SUPPORT
10:30:59 STAFF THAT SUPPORTS THEM EVERY DAY.
10:31:00 I'M VERY CONFIDENT THAT IF COUNCIL, AND OF COURSE THE
10:31:06 ADMINISTRATION, CAN FIND THAT BALANCE OF MAKING SURE THAT
10:31:11 WE DO A RIP AND REPLACE, EVERYBODY SIGNING ON SIGNING
10:31:16 DAY, AND A 5-5-1 BY NEXT THURSDAY, AND WE HAVE ALREADY
10:31:20 GOTTEN AT LEAST A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE FROM THE CITY
10:31:23 ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CONFIRMED BID MR. SHELBY THAT THESE
10:31:26 MINOR ADJUSTMENTS CAN BE MADE AS OF THURSDAY, I THINK WE
10:31:29 CAN MOVE THE CITY FORWARD, AND THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR
10:31:32 IMPROVEMENT, AND I THINK THIS APPEASES THE CRB AS A
10:31:37 BOARD, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE UNION, THE OTHER
10:31:39 STAKEHOLDERS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN ALL THE ITERATIONS THAT
10:31:41 LED US TO THE MAY VERSION, WHICH WE ARE TODAY, AND I
10:31:45 THINK TO COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO'S POINT, THAT LEAD US INTO
10:31:50 THE NEXT CHAPTER OF WORKING ON THE BUDGET.
10:31:52 >>BILL CARLSON: CHIEF BENNETT, JUST ONE QUICK THING.
10:31:58 THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS AND
10:32:00 HAVE BEEN FOR SIX YEARS, THIS FINAL ISSUE, I SHOULD SAY
10:32:06 THE PUBLIC, THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS IN THIS THAT ARE
10:32:09 DIFFERENT THAN THE ORIGINAL VERSION IF YOU GO BACK SIX
10:32:11 YEARS.
10:32:11 IT'S VERY DIFFERENT.
10:32:13 >>JOHN BENNETT: CORRECT.
10:32:14 >>BILL CARLSON: WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FROM ONE VERSION TO
10:32:16 ANOTHER BUT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS IN THIS MAY
10:32:19 VERSION.
10:32:23 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOME ADDITIONAL ISSUES THAT THE
10:32:24 COMMUNITY WANTS.
10:32:25 BUT ONE OF THE THINGS IS THE WAY THEY SEE IT IS THEY WANT
10:32:29 CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE MAJORITY APPOINTEES ON THIS.
10:32:32 IT WOULD HELP IF WE ARE GOING TO GO TO 5-1-5, IT WOULD
10:32:36 HELP WITH THE COMMUNITY IF WE COULD SAY THAT THE CITY
10:32:42 COUNCIL APPOINTS BUT THE MAYOR APPROVES.
10:32:45 I KNOW YOU SAID BOTH AND I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S WRITTEN
10:32:47 BUT IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO SAY THAT CITY COUNCIL APPOINTS
10:32:49 AND THE MAYOR APPROVES THAT WOULD JUST HELP US IN TALKING
10:32:53 TO THOSE NUMBERS IN THE COMMUNITY.
10:32:55 >>JOHN BENNETT: UNDERSTOOD.
10:32:57 AND I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION WILL BE RECEPTIVE TO THAT.
10:32:59 >>ORLANDO GUDES: [OFF MICROPHONE] WORDS FROM THE
10:33:12 ADMINISTRATION'S POINT OF VIEW.
10:33:14 MR. CITRO?
10:33:16 >>JOSEPH CITRO: JUST CLARIFICATION FOR MYSELF.
10:33:21 THE COMMUNITY ACTIVIST GROUP, AGAIN, WHETHER IT BE NAACP
10:33:27 WHOMEVER THAT WOULD BE, CHIEF BENNETT, WOULD BE POINTING
10:33:30 THERE, CITY COUNCIL OR MAYOR?
10:33:33 >>JOHN BENNETT: BASED ON COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S
10:33:35 RECOMMENDATION WHAT I HEARD IS THAT COUNCIL COULD MAKE
10:33:37 THE NOMINATION, THE MAYOR CONFIRM THE NOMINATION.
10:33:40 >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:33:45 >>ORLANDO GUDES:
10:33:51 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. MIRANDA SAID IT MAY BE A LEGAL
10:33:54 MATTER SO IF WE LOOK AT GOING WITH THE MAY 5-5-1, AND MR.
10:34:00 MANISCALCO IS KIND OF LEANING IT WOULD BE BOBBLE TO MAYBE
10:34:04 COMPROMISE, STILL 7-4?
10:34:17 ARE WE GETTING CLOSE, GENTLEMEN, THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH A
10:34:21 COMPROMISE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, THOSE OTHER ITEMS GET
10:34:24 KICKED DOWN TO --
10:34:27 >>BILL CARLSON: I WANT TO -- I APPRECIATE CHIEF BENNETT
10:34:31 WORKING WITH US, AND WE ALL NEED TO GO BACK AND TALK TO
10:34:34 OUR CONSTITUENTS ABOUT IT.
10:34:36 BUT I THINK THAT IN THE VERSION THAT WE JUST TALKED
10:34:39 ABOUT, IT'S BETTER THAN HAVING NOTHING AND STARTING A
10:34:45 LEGAL WAR, AND WE COULD GO BACK AND NEGOTIATE THIS MORE
10:34:48 ANOTHER TIME.
10:34:49 WE HAVE GOT SO MANY GOOD THINGS THAT WE HAVE NEGOTIATED.
10:34:52 AND I WOULD ASK EVERYBODY PLEASE GO BACK TO THE VERSION
10:34:54 FROM SIX YEARS AGO AND WHEREIN LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE
10:34:56 TODAY.
10:34:57 IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT AND WE NEED TO APPROVE A
10:34:59 VERSION SO THAT WE CAN COME BACK.
10:35:02 BUT IF WE END UP IN A BIG FIGHT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE
10:35:06 APPROVED FOR MONTHS OR YEARS.
10:35:08 BUT I THINK IF WE ARE GOING TO BE PARTICULAR OR
10:35:10 PRESCRIPTIVE ABOUT THURSDAY WE NEED TO CLARIFY ONE FINAL
10:35:14 POINT.
10:35:14 ORIGINALLY THE ONE WAS THAT THE MAYOR'S OFFICE PROPOSED
10:35:17 THE ONE WOULD BE THE NAACP AND THE NAACP WOULD PROPOSE
10:35:22 SOMEBODY, AND THEN CITY COUNCIL OR THE MAYOR WOULD
10:35:26 APPROVE THEM.
10:35:27 BUT ARE YOU CHAINING THAT DEFINITION?
10:35:29 I THINK LEGAL NEEDS SOME DEFINITION OF WHAT WOULD BE IN
10:35:32 THIS SO THEY CAN PRESENT THE LANGUAGE TO US FOR THURSDAY.
10:35:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
10:35:45 BEFORE MS. GRIMES WOULD ADDRESS THAT, I DO HAVE THE
10:35:47 ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED ON FIRST READING IN FRONT OF
10:35:51 ME, AND I'M SURE CITY ATTORNEY DOES, TOO.
10:35:54 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY, BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT
10:35:56 POINT, THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE CRB, TOO.
10:36:00 I THINK THE ORGANIZATION VERSUS SPECIFIC NAME OF AN
10:36:05 ORGANIZATION, AND AGAIN THAT WAS BROUGHT UP BY THE CRB,
10:36:11 AND AGAIN, CITY COUNCIL BROUGHT THAT UP, TOO.
10:36:15 SO I JUST WANT TO SHED LIGHT ON THAT AS WELL.
10:36:18 MR. CITRO.
10:36:20 >>JOSEPH CITRO: I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU ON THAT.
10:36:23 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
10:36:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I BELIEVE, COUNCIL -- AND COUNCILMEMBER
10:36:29 CARLSON RAISES A VERY GOOD POINT, OBJECT BETWEEN NOW AND
10:36:32 THURSDAY, COUNCIL WILL NEED TO SEE THAT LANGUAGE, AND SO
10:36:35 WILL THE PUBLIC TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY CAN.
10:36:38 BY THE TIME OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, IF COUNCIL CHOOSES TO
10:36:40 GO FORWARD WITH THE SECOND READING.
10:36:43 AS IT STANDS NOW, THAT WOULD NEED TO BE CLARIFIED.
10:36:50 I DON'T RECALL HOW IT WAS DRAFTED IN THE FEBRUARY
10:36:52 ORDINANCE.
10:36:52 I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME SO MAYBE MS. GRIMES CAN
10:36:55 ADDRESS THAT.
10:36:56 BUT YOU RAISE A VERY GOOD POINT AS TO GETTING A CONSENSUS
10:36:59 AND GETTING CLEAR, AS TO WHAT WILL BE PREPARED AS A
10:37:03 RESULT OF TODAY'S CONSENSUS.
10:37:08 THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT HAS TO BRING
10:37:11 FORTH TO CITY COUNCIL IN ADVANCE OF THURSDAY'S MEETING SO
10:37:14 YOU CAN GO TO SECOND READ IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT.
10:37:17 LET ME JUST ADDRESS THAT ONE MORE TIME JUST VERY BRIEFLY
10:37:20 AND ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE.
10:37:22 AND MS. GRIMES CERTAINLY CAN ADD TO THIS.
10:37:27 IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH ADOPTING THAT MINOR AMENDMENT
10:37:37 TO SUBJECT A, ADOPTING IT ON SECOND READING, IF THERE IS
10:37:41 A PROBLEM WITH THAT ORDINANCE IT IS OF A TECHNICAL NATURE
10:37:44 THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CHALLENGE IT ON THE BASIS OF
10:37:46 THE FACT THAT IT DIDN'T COMPLY WITH FLORIDA STATUTES, AND
10:37:48 THE EFFECT IS THEY WOULD HAVE TO BRING A LAWSUIT AND THE
10:37:56 REMEDY IS TO GO BACK TO WHAT IS ALREADY EXISTING.
10:38:00 AND THE WAY COUNCIL CAN CURE THAT IS GO THROUGH ANOTHER
10:38:02 FIRST READING AND SECOND READING.
10:38:05 ON A COST BENEFIT BASIS TO ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO CHALLENGE
10:38:08 THAT ORDINANCE THERE'S NOTHING REALLY TO BE GAINED EXCEPT
10:38:11 TO BE A SPOILER.
10:38:12 AND I DON'T BELIEVE THE RISK EVEN ON A FAST TRACK,
10:38:24 BECAUSE OF COUNCIL'S RECESS FOR THE SUMMER, IT WOULD NOT
10:38:28 EVEN BE ABLE TO COME BACK, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, FOR SECOND
10:38:32 READING, IF YOU HAD TO GO BACK TO FIRST READING THIS
10:38:36 THURSDAY, IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER
10:38:38 MONTH INTO JULY.
10:38:39 SO IT DEPENDS ON HOW COUNCIL WANTS TO WEIGH THE COST AND
10:38:44 BENEFITS OF HOW IT WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD.
10:38:45 AND ULTIMATELY YOU HAVE THE ISSUE THAT COUNCILMAN MIRANDA
10:38:49 RAISED THAT ULTIMATELY THAT IF YOU WANT TO PUT 24 BEFORE
10:38:52 THE VOTERS, THEN YOU WOULD BE OPERATING CONTINUOUSLY
10:38:55 UNDER THE EXISTING ORDINANCE OF 2015 ORDINANCE UNTIL IT'S
10:38:59 PUT BEFORE THE VOTERS, AND THEN DEPENDING ON WHAT THE
10:39:02 VOTERS DO, AND DEPENDING ON WHAT BE QUESTION YOU PUT
10:39:05 BEFORE THE VOTERS YOU WON'T KNOW WHAT THAT DECISION IS.
10:39:08 I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT INTO CONTEXT.
10:39:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY, I WANT MR. DINGFELDER TO
10:39:15 CHIME IN AND I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.
10:39:18 YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:39:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: SO MR. CHAIRMAN AND MR. CITRO, ARE
10:39:22 YOU SUGGESTING THAT INSTEAD OF USING THE WORDS NAACP,
10:39:26 THAT REGARDLESS OF WHICH ORDINANCE WE GO WITH, WHICH HEAD
10:39:34 COUNTS WE GO WITH, THAT WE SUBSTITUTE INSTEAD OF THE
10:39:37 WORDS NAACP SOMETHING LIKE "A LOCAL CIVIL RIGHTS
10:39:44 ORGANIZATION"? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING?
10:39:49 BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT MS. GRIMES AND MR. SHELBY NEED
10:39:54 SOME DIRECTION FROM THIS BODY.
10:39:56 AGAIN, I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE A MINOR TECHNICAL
10:39:59 CHANGE, THAT REGARDLESS OF WHICH WAY WE GO, 7-4, WOULD BE
10:40:09 THIS COMING THURSDAY.
10:40:10 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THAT'S WHAT I AM PROPOSING.
10:40:12 ORGANIZATION IS THE KEY WORD THERE.
10:40:14 THAT WAY, THEY ARE RECOGNIZED AS A COMMUNITY ACTIVIST
10:40:20 GROUP, ORGANIZATION, EXCUSE ME, WHETHER IT BE NAACP,
10:40:26 WHETHER IT BE SOME OTHER COMMUNITY ACTIVIST GROUP.
10:40:29 SO, YES.
10:40:30 >>ORLANDO GUDES: AND THAT GIVES EVERYBODY A CHANCE.
10:40:36 MR. SHELBY, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DO THINGS ABOVEBOARD,
10:40:42 AND I DON'T WANT TO WHERE WE HAVE TO BE CHALLENGED ON
10:40:47 ANYTHING.
10:40:47 IF WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO DO IT AND
10:40:50 DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.
10:40:51 I DON'T CARE IF IT COMES BACK IN JULY.
10:40:53 THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
10:40:55 THE ISSUE IS TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE RIGHT.
10:40:58 AND WE HEARD FROM THE LEGEND, I KNOW WE HAVE DONE SOME
10:41:02 STUFF, PROBABLY WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE BUT WE HAVE DONE
10:41:05 IT, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE WE DO IT RIGHT.
10:41:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: MS. GRIMES OFFICE HAS DONE THE LEGAL
10:41:13 RESEARCH, THE ATTORNEYS UPSTAIRS, AND HAVE TAKEN A LOOK
10:41:16 AT IT, AND THEY CAN GO MORE INTO DEPTH BUT IF YOU WANT TO
10:41:20 KNOW WHAT THE SAFEST COURSE OF ACTION IS, AND COUNCIL
10:41:23 COMES TO A CONSENSUS, YOU COULD GO BACK TO FIRST READING
10:41:26 ON THURSDAY BUT THEN YOU HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING AND
10:41:30 A SECOND READING IN JULY. IF THAT PUTS COUNCIL AT EASE,
10:41:35 THEN THE DELAY IS NECESSARY.
10:41:37 THE QUESTION IS -- AND I AM JUST RESPONDING TO CONCERNS
10:41:39 FROM PEOPLE WHO WANT TO -- AND I DOWNTOWN KNOW WHAT THE
10:41:42 ADMINISTRATION HAS A PARTICULAR POSITION ON THIS -- BUT
10:41:45 TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY COME TOGETHER AND PUT THIS MATTER
10:41:52 TO REST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA WITH A
10:41:56 DEGREE OF FINALITY.
10:41:59 WHEN I SAY FINALITY, THE PROCESS IS JUST BEGINNING
10:42:02 BECAUSE THE WHOLE PROCESS IS A PROCESS IN AND OF ITSELF.
10:42:05 >>ORLANDO GUDES: WHAT'S YOUR OPINION?
10:42:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WELL, IT'S NOT THE OPINION.
10:42:16 IS 30 DAYS GOING TO BE A DEAL BREAKER AS FAR AS THE
10:42:20 CHANCES OF SOMETHING NOT BEING APPLICABLE TO SOMEONE, AND
10:42:25 YOU HAVE A CHALLENGE, AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS, YOU GET
10:42:29 BACK AGAIN.
10:42:30 I AM NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO SOMETHING THAT BELONGS TO
10:42:35 KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD OUT INTO THE STREETS AND TO
10:42:38 GO FOREVER AND NOT DOING ANYTHING.
10:42:40 NO.
10:42:40 BUT IF THE ISSUE IS, IS 30 DAYS THAT IMPORTANT RELATIVE
10:42:48 TO WHAT THE POSSIBILITY COULD BE THAT IT'S TURNED DOWN
10:42:51 SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD?
10:42:52 THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.
10:42:54 30 DAYS.
10:42:54 IS IT GOING TO BE A DEAL BREAKER ON 30 DAYS VERSUS THAT?
10:42:58 I DON'T KNOW.
10:42:59 BUT I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING.
10:43:01 I WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS MORE CODIFIED SO IF
10:43:06 IT IS TAKEN UP, IT WAS DONE WITHOUT ANY -- WE ALREADY
10:43:12 KNOW WHAT THE CHANCES ARE HERE.
10:43:14 ANYTIME YOU GO TO COURT IT AIN'T 90-10.
10:43:18 IT'S 50-50 GOING IN.
10:43:21 DO YOU REALLY TAKE THE CHANCE OF 50-50 OR 99 TO 1?
10:43:28 THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING.
10:43:29 >>BILL CARLSON: THANK YOU, SIR.
10:43:34 CHIEF BENNETT, MY UNDERSTANDING, AND SPEAKING WITH STAFF,
10:43:37 AND THEN WATCHING THE PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE POLICE
10:43:40 CHIEF AND THE MAYOR, IS THAT THEIR PREFERENCE IS TO
10:43:43 RESOLVE THIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
10:43:45 IS THAT STILL THE DIRECTION, OR DOES THE ADMINISTRATION
10:43:48 CARE WHETHER -- DOES THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE A PREFERENCE
10:43:51 AS TO WHETHER WE DO SECOND READING ON THURSDAY VERSUS
10:43:54 DELAYING IT UNTIL JULY?
10:43:56 >>JOHN BENNETT: NO.
10:43:58 THE PREFERENCE, AND HENCE THE RESEARCH, AGAIN, IS TO
10:44:00 CALCULATE THE LEGAL RISK FACTORS WHICH I THINK HAS BEEN
10:44:03 DONE, AND THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO TRY TO MOVE FORWARD ON
10:44:06 THURSDAY.
10:44:07 AGAIN, WITH THE 5-5-1.
10:44:10 AND I MENTIONED IT TO MR. SHELBY AND HE CAN INTERPRET MY
10:44:13 QUESTION IF HE WANTS TO IN ADDITION TO MY COMMENTS, BUT
10:44:17 THE REASON I HAVE A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE -- I'M NOT A
10:44:20 LAWYER BUT THE REASON I HAVE A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE IN NOT
10:44:23 ONLY THE RESEARCH OF WHAT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT HAS DONE
10:44:27 IN SHARING THAT WITH MR. SHELBY IS THAT THE 5-5-1
10:44:32 RECOMMENDATION HAS ALREADY BEEN IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC IN
10:44:33 A PRIOR VERSION.
10:44:34 IT'S NOT A COMPLETELY NEW METHODOLOGY, IF YOU WILL, FOR
10:44:40 CONFIGURING THE BOARD.
10:44:42 THAT WAS PRESENTED IN THIS CONTINUUM.
10:44:45 AND SO IF WE WERE GOING TO 20 AND 2 OR SOME OTHER
10:44:50 CONFIGURATION AND IT WAS RADICALLY DIFFERENT, I THINK IT
10:44:54 BRINGS AN ELEMENT OF CONSISTENCY.
10:44:57 WE ARE JUST TOGGLING BACK TO A PREVIOUS VERSION WITH A
10:45:00 RECOMMENDATION ON THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL.
10:45:03 >>BILL CARLSON: COULD I ALSO JUST ASK CITY ATTORNEY MS.
10:45:06 GRIMES, COULD YOU TELL US, WITHOUT OPENING A HUGE LEGAL
10:45:10 DISCUSSION, BUT COULD YOU JELL JUST TELL US, IT SEEMS TO
10:45:14 ME THAT IF THERE WAS A LEGAL CHALLENGE THAT WE COULD JUST
10:45:18 SCHEDULE THIS FOR FIRST AND SECOND READING SOMETIME IN
10:45:20 THE FUTURE AND PASS THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE, AND WOULD
10:45:26 SUPERSEDE IT AND THEN ALLOW US TO HAVE THE SUMMARY
10:45:28 JUDGMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
10:45:30 >>GINA GRIMES: IF THERE IS A CHALLENGE IN THE ORDINANCE
10:45:35 BASED ON THE PROCESS, AND IF WE DID NOT PREVAIL, THE
10:45:41 ORDINANCE WOULD BE VOID, WOULD THEN REVERT US BACK TO
10:45:45 WHERE WE ARE IN AND OUT WITH THE LAST MAYOR HAVING
10:45:49 APPOINTMENTS AND THE COUNCIL 4 AND THE BOARD WITH VERY
10:45:52 LIMITED POWERS.
10:45:53 AND THE POINT THEN COULD YOU BRING BACK WHAT WE ARE
10:45:57 PROPOSING, ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW, IN THE NORMAL COURSE.
10:46:04 >>BILL CARLSON: IF SOMEBODY FILED A LAWSUIT DURING THAT
10:46:06 LEGAL PROCESS COULD WE NOT HOLD FIRST AND SECOND READING
10:46:10 AND REPLACE?
10:46:14 >>GINA GRIMES: YES.
10:46:15 >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD RATHER HAVE US VOTE THIS AS
10:46:18 SECOND READING ON THURSDAY.
10:46:19 THANK YOU.
10:46:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. DINGFELDER, THEN MR. SHELBY.
10:46:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU, MR. CARLSON.
10:46:26 THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
10:46:28 THE THING I HAVE BEEN AGONIZING OVER THE LAST TWO
10:46:31 WEEKS -- AND I PUT A CALL TO MS. ZELMAN, TO MR. SHELBY,
10:46:37 TO ANYBODY WHO WILL LISTEN, I THINK I MENTIONED IT TO MR.
10:46:40 BENNETT AS WELL, WHATEVER WE DO, LET'S JUST BE DONE WITH
10:46:42 THIS THURSDAY, OKAY?
10:46:45 I MEAN, I CAN AGREE WITH ANYTHING THAT MS. GRIMES CAME UP
10:46:49 WITH AND SAID TO US A FEW WEEKS AGO, IS THAT THIS THING
10:46:52 HAS DRAGGED ON LONG ENOUGH, ALL RIGHT?
10:46:55 AND YES, ANYBODY CAN SUE US ABOUT ANYTHING.
10:46:57 IT DOESN'T COST VERY MUCH TO WALK INTO THE CIRCUIT COURT
10:47:01 AND SUE US.
10:47:02 BUT THE BASIS FOR IT WOULD BE SILLY.
10:47:04 IT WOULD BE FRIVOLOUS, OKAY.
10:47:07 THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING, AND LIKE
10:47:10 YOU SEWED, BILL, THE MINUTE SOMEBODY SUES US ALL WE HAVE
10:47:14 TO DO IS GO BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS AND PASS IT.
10:47:17 WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO WAIT FOR A JUDGE TO SIGN.
10:47:19 THEN THE LAWSUIT BECOMES MAT.
10:47:21 SO LET'S JUST BE DONE WITH THIS, THIS THURSDAY, NO MATTER
10:47:24 WHAT.
10:47:24 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY.
10:47:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND JUST TO ADD TO COUNCIL'S LEVEL OF
10:47:30 COMFORT, IF THIS WOULD HELP, IS THE VERY FACT THAT YOU
10:47:32 ARE HAVING THIS MEETING TODAY, BEFORE THE PUBLIC, WITH
10:47:41 FULL NOTICE BEFORE THURSDAY, I THINK ALSO ADDS TO THE
10:47:43 WEIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THIS COUNCIL IS TRANSPARENT ABOUT
10:47:45 WHAT IT ATTEMPTS TO ACCOMPLISH, AND THE FACT THAT THE
10:47:48 PUBLIC IS ON NOTICE, AND WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
10:47:50 SPEAK BEFORE YOU TAKE FINAL ACTION.
10:47:52 >>ORLANDO GUDES: ALL RIGHT.
10:47:57 I THINK WE HAVE BROUGHT THIS TO A LANDING, AND THINK WE
10:48:03 HAVE HEARD FROM EVERYBODY TO SEE WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT
10:48:06 FOR THURSDAY TO BRING THIS TO BED.
10:48:08 MR. BENNETT, I WOULD SAY ONE THING, IF YOU WOULD COME TO
10:48:11 THE PODIUM, SIR.
10:48:13 YOU BEING THE SPOKESMAN FOR THE ADMINISTRATION.
10:48:16 THIS COUNCIL IS WILLING TO WORK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.
10:48:19 BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE TRANSPARENCY ON
10:48:21 THESE ISSUES.
10:48:22 AND THAT'S WHAT YOU HEAR TIME AND TIME AGAIN FROM THE
10:48:24 COUNCIL, TRANSPARENCY AND GETTING THE INFORMATION TO US
10:48:27 ON TIME, SO WE CAN VET THE INFORMATION.
10:48:30 HOW IT GOES ON THURSDAY, I THINK IT WILL COME OUT TO
10:48:34 WHERE EVERYBODY WILL BE ABLE TO WALK AWAY WITH OUR HEADS
10:48:38 HIGH.
10:48:38 I WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY, THE PUBLIC, THE
10:48:40 ADMINISTRATION, CITY GROUPS, TO THIS BODY, THERE IS NO
10:48:44 WINNER IN THIS.
10:48:45 THE ONLY WINNER IN THIS WHOLE THING WILL BE THE CITY OF
10:48:48 TAMPA.
10:48:49 SO THERE'S NO WIN FOR THE MAYOR, NO WIN FOR THIS COUNCIL.
10:48:52 I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR.
10:48:53 IT'S A WIN FOR ALL OF US.
10:48:55 AND IF IT'S A DONE DEAL ON THURSDAY, WE'LL HAVE A FRESH
10:49:01 CONFERENCE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS WE CAME TOGETHER TO MAKE
10:49:04 THIS HAPPEN FOR CITIZENS.
10:49:05 AND WHATEVER GOES DOWN THE ROAD IS DOWN THE ROAD FOR
10:49:08 WHATEVER ADMINISTRATION, WHATEVER COUNCIL, WHATEVER
10:49:11 WORKSHOP.
10:49:12 ON THURSDAY WE BRING IT TO A CLOSE WITH EVERYBODY COMING
10:49:14 TOGETHER.
10:49:15 NO WIN FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OR THIS COUNCIL BUT A WIN
10:49:17 FOR THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA, SIR.
10:49:18 >>JOHN BENNETT: [OFF MICROPHONE] I APPRECIATE THAT,
10:49:25 MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:49:26 AND -- [OFF MICROPHONE]
10:49:33 JOHN BENNETT, CHIEF OF STAFF, CITY OF TAMPA.
10:49:45 I JUST WANT TO LEAVE THE LECTERN CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT IT'S
10:49:50 MY UNDERSTANDING, AND BASED ON THE DOLLAR THIS MORNING,
10:49:52 AND I AGREE WITH MR. SHELBY ON EVERYTHING ABOUT
10:49:54 TRANSPARENCY PART, IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WILL BRING
10:49:58 BACK A 5-5-OPTION ON THURSDAY FOR COUNCIL TO CONSIDER.
10:50:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND BE MORE SPECIFIC TO THE 5-5-1 THAT
10:50:08 IS THE APPOINTMENT AS TO -- AND I KNOW THE CITY ATTORNEY
10:50:12 HEARD THIS, BUT TO BE CLASSIFIED AS A CIVIL RIGHTS
10:50:15 ORGANIZATION?
10:50:15 IS THAT THE CONSENSUS OF COUNCIL?
10:50:17 >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ACTIVIST.
10:50:18 ANY ORGANIZATION.
10:50:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IT DEPENDS WHAT YOUR DEFINITION.
10:50:21 >> COMMUNITY ACTIVIST GROUP.
10:50:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THAT COULD BE THE PBA?
10:50:32 I DON'T KNOW.
10:50:33 THAT'S AN ORGANIZATION.
10:50:40 [NO ENCODER]
10:51:02 >>GINA GRIMES: YES, WE CAN REFER TO IT AS A CIVIL RIGHTS
10:51:04 ORGANIZATION OR A SOCIAL JUSTICE ORGANIZATION, WHICHEVER
10:51:07 WAY YOU WOULD LIKE.
10:51:09 AND THIS IS A PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
10:51:12 I AM NOT CLEAR WHETHER YOU WANT ME TO PREPARE THIS CHANGE
10:51:18 BEFORE THURSDAY, OR TO HAVE IT AVAILABLE ON THURSDAY.
10:51:25 I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK ON IT TODAY, AND TRY TO
10:51:29 GET IT INTO SIRE LATER ON TODAY OR TONIGHT.
10:51:33 >> BEFORE THURSDAY.
10:51:39 MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:51:41 >>GINA GRIMES: I WOULD TAKE THE EXIST WILLING DRAFT, THE
10:51:44 MAY DRAFT, AND I WOULD MODIFY SECTION 18-8-B, PROVIDE
10:51:49 THAT COUNCIL HAS FIVE APPOINTMENTS, THE MAYOR HAVE FIVE
10:51:53 APPOINTMENTS, THEN THERE WOULD BE ONE APPOINTMENT BY CITY
10:51:59 COUNCIL OF A MEMBER OF A CIVIL RIGHTS OR SOCIAL JUSTICE
10:52:04 ORGANIZATION, AND THAT COUNCIL APPOINTMENT WOULD BE
10:52:07 SUBJECT TO CONFIRMATION BY THE MAYOR.
10:52:10 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY.
10:52:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WELL, THE QUESTION IS, DOES COUNCIL
10:52:14 WANT TO BE CLEAR?
10:52:15 DOES IT WANT TO REFER TO IT AS BOTH OR JUST CHOOSE IT TO
10:52:18 BE A CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION, OR USE THE TERM SOCIAL
10:52:21 JUSTICE AS IS DEFINED?
10:52:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: MS. GRIMES HAS A GOOD SOLUTION, CIVIL
10:52:29 RIGHTS OR SOCIAL JUSTICE.
10:52:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IS THAT THE CONSENSUS OF COUNCIL?
10:52:38 YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:52:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: THANK YOU.
10:52:40 MRS. GRIMES, I APPRECIATE THIS CONSENSUS BUILDING
10:52:43 EXERCISE THAT WE ARE IN.
10:52:45 WHAT I WOULD ASK, RESPECTFULLY, IS THAT YOU ALWAYS TAKE
10:52:49 THE 7-4-1 DRAFT THAT'S ALSO PENDING AND MAKE THAT NOT
10:52:58 SAME MODIFICATION, YOU KNOW, CIVIL RIGHTS OR SOCIAL
10:53:02 JUSTICE, TO THAT DRAFT, SO THEN THAT WAY ON THURSDAY WE
10:53:06 HAVE TWO CHASES WE CAN GO 5-5-1 OR 7-4-1, BUT WE HAVE A
10:53:12 PERFECT DRAFT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH.
10:53:25 >>GINA GRIMES: [ INAUDIBLE ]
10:53:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: RIGHT NOW SHE HAS THE OLD DRAFT OF
10:53:28 7-4-1 THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE THE NAACP UPDATE.
10:53:32 NOW SHE'S GOING TO CHANGE IT PURSUANT TO WHAT I JUST
10:53:34 SAID.
10:53:35 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU, SIR.
10:53:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I COULD JUST FOLLOW UP.
10:53:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: ALSO INCLUDE THE DRAFT THAT'S 5-5-1
10:53:45 WITH THE NAACP CHANGE SO WE CAN BRING TWO DOCUMENTS TO US
10:53:49 THAT WE CAN VOTE ON, ON THURSDAY.
10:53:51 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, SIR.
10:53:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WITH THE ORDINANCE THAT'S BEFORE THE
10:53:59 CLERK TODAY THAT'S BEEN ADVERTISED FOR SECOND READING IS
10:54:01 THE ORDINANCE THAT HAS THE EXHIBIT A AS IT STANDS TODAY,
10:54:07 WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING BEING CHANGED.
10:54:09 SO IN EFFECT YOU ARE ASKING FOR TWO THINGS TO COME BACK
10:54:12 IN ADDITION TO THE ORDINANCE THAT'S ON THE AGENDA.
10:54:16 I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT --
10:54:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: SAYING THERE MIGHT BE THREE THINGS.
10:54:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: YOU HAVE JUST RAISED A THIRD.
10:54:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: YES.
10:54:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE THAT
10:54:26 ORDINANCE IS AS IT IS ON THE CALENDAR AGENDA FOR SECOND
10:54:32 READING.
10:54:33 >>ORLANDO GUDES: WAS YOUR HAND UP, SIR?
10:54:36 >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES, SIR.
10:54:37 MRS. GRIMES, THERE IS A WOMAN TO YOUR LEFT.
10:54:39 WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE HER?
10:54:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: URSULA.
10:54:51 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THIS WOMAN HELPED ME OUT IMMENSELY.
10:54:54 THERE ARE TIMES THAT SHE INFORMED ME SO I WOULD LIKE TO
10:54:56 ALSO THANK YOU, MS. URSULA, FOR YOUR HELP.
10:55:00 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MS. URSULA RICHARDSON, CHIEF LITIGATE
10:55:03 OR, IS THAT CORRECT, MRS. GRIMES?
10:55:05 AND SHE HAS BEEN CRAFTING THE CORRECTIONS.
10:55:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: JOE KNEW WHO SHE WAS.
10:55:13 HE WAS JUST RECOGNIZING HER.
10:55:15 >>GINA GRIMES: THE ONE PERSON THAT CONSISTENTLY APPEARED
10:55:18 IN FRONT OF THE CRB DURING THIS WHOLE PROCESS, AND TO
10:55:22 INSTRUCT THEIR OFFICE ON THE STATUS OF THE ORDINANCE.
10:55:25 SO SHE HAS DONE A REALLY NICE JOB OF MAKING SURE THAT
10:55:28 THEY ARE AT LEAST AWARE OF WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE.
10:55:30 >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, MS. GRIPES.
10:55:34 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
10:55:35 >>BILL CARLSON: JUST TO ECHO THAT, I WANT TO THANK HER
10:55:39 FOR NOT ONLY THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID WITH YOU SHE DID
10:55:42 EXTENSIVE RESEARCH TO LOOK INTO OTHER CRBS THROUGHOUT
10:55:45 FLORIDA AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY SO THANK YOU SO MUCH
10:55:47 FOR ALL THAT DILIGENCE.
10:55:48 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY, I SEE YOU GOING BACK AND
10:55:51 FORTH.
10:55:52 YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.
10:55:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A CONSENSUS PLEASE WITH REGARD TO THE
10:55:55 FEBRUARY WORKSHOP ON THE DISCUSSION -- OF THE DISCRETION
10:56:01 OF THE BOARD TO HIRE OR RETAIN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL WOULD
10:56:04 BE PRESENTED AS A CHATTER QUESTION.
10:56:06 THAT WAS SOME DISCUSSION IF THAT WAS THE ADMINISTRATION'S
10:56:10 REQUEST TO HAVE THAT TAKEN OFF THE FEBRUARY AGENDA.
10:56:12 >> [OFF MICROPHONE]
10:56:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: BECAUSE IF THE ADMINISTRATION -- THAT
10:56:18 CAME UP AT THE MEETING.
10:56:19 >>ORLANDO GUDES: WE HAVE ALREADY CONCEDED.
10:56:23 WE HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD AND WE ARE
10:56:25 GOING TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF THE VOTE.
10:56:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: LET'S GET THROUGH THURSDAY FIRST.
10:56:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT'S THE QUESTION.
10:56:32 IF THIS IS GOING TO COME UP ON THURSDAY, I THINK YOU HAVE
10:56:34 THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS IT WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.
10:56:36 IF COUNCIL DOESN'T WISH TO DISCUSS IT AND IT'S FINE
10:56:39 WITH THE ADMINISTRATION --
10:56:43 >>ORLANDO GUDES: LET'S GET TO THE VOTE RIGHT NOW IN
10:56:45 REFERENCE TO THE NUMBER AND THEN DEAL WITH IT LATER ON.
10:56:47 I DON'T WANT TO MIX THE TWO.
10:56:49 AND THEN WE GO TO A WHIRLWIND.
10:56:51 >> I APOLOGIZE.
10:56:54 >>GINA GRIMES: ONE PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
10:56:55 SO I WILL PREPARE TWO NEW ORDINANCES CONSISTENT WITH THE
10:56:58 DIRECTION YOU GAVE ME, AND I WILL SUBMIT TO SIRE AND IF
10:57:04 YOU COULD ASK THE CLERK TO ACCEPT THEM INTO SIRE IF IT'S
10:57:07 PAST THE DEADLINE DATE, I WILL GET THOSE TO YOU ALL SO
10:57:10 YOU CAN REVIEW THEM AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC HAVING ACCESS
10:57:13 TO THOSE DOCUMENTS TO REVIEW.
10:57:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: MR. CHAIRMAN, MOVE THE CLERK TO
10:57:22 ACCEPT THEM TO SIRE.
10:57:23 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. MIRANDA, MAKE YOUR POINT, SIR.
10:57:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I AM NOT OPPOSED AT ALL TO MR.
10:57:30 CARLSON TO PUT IT ON SIRE AND SO FORTH AND SO ON.
10:57:33 BUT IF THERE'S ONE LITTLE COMMA THAT'S OUT OF PLACE, THEY
10:57:36 MIGHT HAVE THE WRONG INFORMATION.
10:57:37 WHY DON'T WE JUST GET THE THING, LOOK AT IT AND PUT IT ON
10:57:42 WHOEVER, LET MR. SHELBY AGREE WITH THE ITEM AND THEN PUT
10:57:44 IT ON THE SIRE.
10:57:48 FOR MS. GRIMES TO PUT IT ON NOT ON THE SPOT BECAUSE SHE'S
10:57:52 CAPABLE OF DOING A FINE JOB, AND IF SHE MAKES ONE ERROR,
10:57:56 THEN WE ARE ALL GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHAT ARE YOU DOING
10:57:59 NOW?
10:57:59 PLAYING TRICKS?
10:58:00 WE ARE NOT PLAYING TRICKS BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE 110,000
10:58:04 PERCENT THAT WHATEVER GOES TO THE PUBLIC IS WHAT WE
10:58:08 DISCUSSED.
10:58:08 THAT'S ALL.
10:58:09 >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY.
10:58:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, MR. MIRANDA, I
10:58:15 APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT I WANT YOU TO KNOW
10:58:17 THAT THE CONFIDENCE AND EXCELLENCE IN YOUR CITY'S LEGAL
10:58:21 DEPARTMENT, I DON'T WANT TO SLOW DOWN THE PROCESS BY
10:58:25 HAVING IT TO COME THROUGH ME IF TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
10:58:27 >>ORLANDO GUDES: THAT'S NOT WHAT HE'S SAYING.
10:58:29 HE'S SAYING, AND I CONCUR WITH HIM, THAT YOU ARE OUR CITY
10:58:34 ATTORNEY, SHE'S GOING TO WRITE IT, SEND TO YOU FOR REVIEW
10:58:38 AND YOU SEND IT BACK TO HER, AND THAT WAY IT'S YOUR
10:58:42 JOB -- MR. CHAIRMAN, I MET WITH EVERYBODY AND IT'S GOING
10:58:47 THROUGH MRS. GRIMES, IT GOES TO SIRE.
10:58:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WANT HER TO
10:58:51 SEND IT TO ME AND THEN I MEET WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS?
10:58:55 >> NO.
10:58:56 >>ORLANDO GUDES: NO.
10:58:56 I WANT YOU TO RECEIVE IT FROM MRS. GRIMES, APPROVE IT.
10:58:59 YOU HEARD WHAT THE COUNCIL ASKED.
10:59:02 ONCE YOU APPROVE IT BECAUSE YOU ARE THE COUNCIL ATTORNEY,
10:59:04 SAY I APPROVE, AND SHE CAN DO WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO WITH
10:59:07 IT.
10:59:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: THANK YOU.
10:59:08 WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING I AM VERY HAPPY TO DO THAT.
10:59:10 THANK YOU, MR. MIRANDA.
10:59:11 YES, I AM HAPPY TO DO THAT.
10:59:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: WHEN IT COMES BACK FROM GINA, AND
10:59:18 SEND IT TO THE CLERK, I THINK MRS. GRIMES ASKED YOU TO
10:59:20 HAVE THE CLERK -- THAT'S FINE.
10:59:22 >>ORLANDO GUDES: HAVE YOU GOT THAT?
10:59:27 >>BILL CARLSON: AND MRS. GRIMES, A REMINDER, THE LATEST
10:59:33 VERSION OF THE MAYOR'S EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT SUPERSEDES
10:59:35 THE LAST ONE.
10:59:36 THANK YOU.
10:59:38 >>GINA GRIMES: YES, SIR.
10:59:38 >>ORLANDO GUDES: ANYONE ELSE?
10:59:42 [OFF MICROPHONE]
10:59:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
10:59:46 >>JOSEPH CITRO: SECOND.
10:59:47 >>ORLANDO GUDES: ALL IN FAVOR?
10:59:49 WE STAND ADJOURNED.
11:00:36 (CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL CALLED MEETING ADJOURNED.)
11:00:43
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