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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL CALL MEETING
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2022
9:00 A.M.

DISCLAIMER:
THIS FILE REPRESENTS AN UNEDITED VERSION OF REALTIME
CAPTIONING WHICH SHOULD NEITHER BE RELIED UPON FOR COMPLETE
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ANY PERSON WHO NEEDS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE
PROCEEDINGS MAY NEED TO HIRE A COURT REPORTER.

9:02:04AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL-CALLED COMMUNICATION
9:02:19AM FOR A CHARTER REVIEW WORKSHOP.
9:02:20AM IF WE COULD ALL PLEASE STAND AND RISE FOR A MOMENT OF
9:02:26AM SILENCE.
9:02:29AM [MOMENT OF SILENCE]
9:02:31AM I THANK YOU.
9:02:40AM IF YOU COULD PLEASE JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO
9:02:42AM THE FLAG OF OUR COUNTRY.
9:02:45AM [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]
9:02:56AM THANK YOU.
9:02:57AM ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
9:03:02AM >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.
9:03:05AM >> VIERA?
9:03:06AM MANISCALCO?
9:03:07AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.
9:03:09AM >>LYNN HURTAK: HERE.
9:03:10AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.

9:03:12AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.
9:03:15AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.
9:03:15AM THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
9:03:23AM I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE OUR FACILITATOR AND HER ASSISTANT
9:03:28AM TODAY, MS. ANNE SCHROEDER AND MS. ROBYN ODEGARD.
9:03:36AM MS. SCHROEDER JOINS US FROM FLORIDA INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT
9:03:39AM AT USF, GO BULLS.
9:03:42AM FOR OVER TWO DECADES, SHE HAS WORKED WITH THE CITY AND
9:03:48AM COUNTY GOVERNMENTS, BUSINESSES AND NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS
9:03:49AM -- [AUDIO FEEDBACK] -- FOR SUCCESS.
9:03:55AM CLIENTS HAVE INCLUDED NASA, RIDER SYSTEMS, COCA-COLA,
9:04:00AM AMERICAN LUNG ASSOCIATION AND THE SALVATION ARMY.
9:04:03AM SHE HAS A MASTER'S DEGREE FROM JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY AT
9:04:07AM BALTIMORE.
9:04:08AM IN ADDITION, ANNE EARNED CERTIFICATE DEGREE IN ADVANCED
9:04:16AM CARPENTRY ALONG WITH HER HUSBAND ED PERSONALLY BUILT THEIR
9:04:20AM FIRST HOME IN FORT MYERS IN 1979.
9:04:24AM ALSO, WE HAVE ROBYN ODEGARD, PROGRAM PLANNER AND ANALYST
9:04:30AM FROM THE FLORIDA INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT WHO WILL TAKE NOTES
9:04:34AM OF THE PROCEEDINGS THAT WILL BE VISIBLE ON THE SCREEN.
9:04:39AM LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AT
9:04:46AM THIS TIME CONCERNING ANYTHING THAT WE WILL BE HEARING ABOUT
9:04:51AM THE CITY OF TAMPA'S CHARTER.
9:04:56AM AND AS ALWAYS WE HAVE THREE MINUTES FOR EACH SPEAKER.
9:05:06AM IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT CONCERNING OUR

9:05:09AM CHARTER OR ANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE GOING TO REVIEW
9:05:14AM TODAY, PLEASE FORM A LINE ON MY LEFT, YOUR RIGHT.
9:05:24AM FIRST SPEAKER.
9:05:34AM >> [INAUDIBLE] -- CARRINGTON STREET.
9:05:39AM IT'S A PLEASURE TO SEE SO MANY FAMILIAR FACES.
9:05:42AM AND WHEN I SAY THAT, WHAT I AM REFERRING TO IS OUR COMMON
9:05:47AM SERVICE ON THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
9:05:49AM AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, I HAD THE PLEASURE OF BEING APPOINTED
9:05:53AM AS A COMMISSIONER AND SERVING WITH FOUR OF THE INDIVIDUALS
9:05:58AM SITTING UP HERE ON THE DAIS TODAY.
9:06:01AM AND ONE OF YOUR LEGAL STAFF.
9:06:06AM FIRST, I WANT TO SAY I APPLAUD YOU FOR TAKING THE CHARTER
9:06:10AM VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY.
9:06:11AM IT IS THE CONSTITUTION OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.
9:06:15AM WE ALL AS CITIZENS, THE FOUR OF YOU AND COUNCIL HERE WHO --
9:06:21AM AND A FEW OTHERS -- WHO SERVED AS CITIZENS AT THE TIME, AS
9:06:25AM YOU KNOW, TOOK A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME TO REVIEW THE
9:06:29AM ENTIRE CHARTER IN ITS ENTIRETY, DEBATE IT SOMETIMES IN A
9:06:35AM VERY HEATED WAY, THE PROVISIONS OF THE CHARTER, HEARD PUBLIC
9:06:40AM COMMENT AT EVERY SINGLE MEETING THAT WE HAD.
9:06:43AM DID SO IN THE SUNSHINE, AND MADE A SERIES OF VERY DETAILED
9:06:47AM RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE ULTIMATELY AT THE TIME APPROVED BY
9:06:50AM COUNCIL AND ULTIMATELY APPROVED BY THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY
9:06:53AM OF TAMPA.
9:06:53AM AT THE TIME, WE TALKED AND DEBATED ABOUT THE CADENCE OF

9:06:58AM REVIEW OF THE CHARTER, AND WE MADE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THE
9:07:03AM CITIZENS ULTIMATELY APPROVED TO REVIEW IT EVERY TEN YEARS.
9:07:07AM I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S THE PROPER CADENCE FOR IT.
9:07:11AM I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT IF THERE IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO
9:07:13AM BE ADDRESSED, AN URGENT ISSUE, BUT I WOULD CAUTION THE
9:07:18AM COUNCIL TO NOT DO WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE FLORIDA
9:07:21AM CONSTITUTION AND MAKE IT SUBJECT TO THINGS THAT WOULD
9:07:25AM OTHERWISE BEST BE DEALT WITH BY ORDINANCE OR BY OTHER ACTION
9:07:29AM OF THE CITY.
9:07:30AM MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BE TALKED ABOUT TODAY
9:07:32AM ARE VERY SERIOUS ISSUES.
9:07:34AM THEY DO NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
9:07:36AM I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU, THOUGH, THAT THEY LIKELY DO NOT NEED
9:07:39AM TO BE ADDRESSED IN THE CHARTER.
9:07:41AM THEY CAN BE ADDRESSED BY ORDINANCE AND, AGAIN, WOULD CAUTION
9:07:43AM YOU ALL TO NOT CREATE A CADENCE HERE TODAY WHERE WE'RE
9:07:47AM REOPENING OUR CHARTER FREQUENTLY AND MAKING THE CHARTER A
9:07:53AM SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ORDINANCE.
9:07:56AM I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
9:07:57AM I HAVE THE UTMOST TRUST AND CONFIDENCE IN THIS GROUP AND
9:08:01AM APPRECIATE ALL THAT YOU'RE DOING FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA.
9:08:03AM THANK YOU.
9:08:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:08:07AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:08:08AM KELLA McCASKILL.

9:08:10AM THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS CHARTER
9:08:14AM REVIEW.
9:08:14AM EARLIER THIS YEAR, THE MAYOR CALLED FOR TRANSPARENCY AND
9:08:20AM ACCOUNTABILITY, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT BECAUSE WE NEED THAT.
9:08:23AM I JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT WAS HER EFFORT TO BUILD TRUST --
9:08:27AM REBUILD TRUST OF THE ADMINISTRATION IN THE CITY,
9:08:31AM PARTICULARLY THE CITIZENS.
9:08:32AM BECAUSE, AS YOU ALL KNOW -- I DON'T HAVE TO REHASH THAT, BUT
9:08:35AM WE'VE SEEN A LOT.
9:08:36AM WE'VE SEEN TOO MUCH HAPPEN.
9:08:38AM I BELIEVE IT WAS AS A RESULT OF THE LACK -- WE DON'T HAVE
9:08:42AM TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:08:43AM SO AS A CITIZEN AND SPOKE WITH SEVERAL CITIZENS, I THINK
9:08:47AM THEY WOULD FEEL BETTER IF WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE A MODIFIED
9:08:52AM CHARTER TO ENSURE THE OBJECTIVE FOR ALL OF THE CITY ATTORNEY
9:08:56AM CLIENTS, WHICH INCLUDES CITY COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE
9:08:58AM I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY CHOSE TO
9:09:03AM INCORRECTLY INTERPRET THE CHARTER AND FAILED TO REPRESENT,
9:09:07AM IN MY OPINION, ONE OF THE BEST CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT
9:09:10AM EVER EXISTED AND WE LOST THAT.
9:09:12AM I'M STILL WOUNDED FROM THAT LOSS.
9:09:14AM TWO OTHERS WENT UNDER ATTACK BECAUSE I BELIEVE THEY CHOSE TO
9:09:19AM INCORRECTLY INTERPRET THE CHARTER.
9:09:22AM AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE KNOW THAT ONE WAY OUT OF THAT IS TO
9:09:25AM ADJUST THE CHARTER.

9:09:26AM I GUESS AT ONE TIME THEY MENTIONED IT WOULD BE, GO BEFORE
9:09:30AM OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
9:09:31AM I DON'T KNOW IF WE WOULD TRUST THAT.
9:09:33AM THE OTHER OPTION IS IT WOULD GO TO A JUDGE.
9:09:35AM BUT THAT'S ONLY IF THERE IS A LAWSUIT.
9:09:37AM I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE IF THERE IS AN ISSUE OR ISSUE WITH
9:09:39AM CHARTER, IF THERE IS A MATTER THAT COMES BEFORE COUNCIL THAT
9:09:42AM THEY DON'T AGREE WITH, BECAUSE WE STILL DON'T HAVE TRUST
9:09:45AM WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, I WOULD LIKE A REQUEST TO GO TO THE
9:09:49AM ATTORNEY GENERAL, THAT BE THE PROCESS.
9:09:51AM GO TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR LEGAL OPINION AND THEN IT
9:09:54AM COMES BACK BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE THEN,
9:09:57AM IN FACT, THEY MAY NEED TO INVESTIGATE SOME AREAS.
9:10:00AM IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE ISSUES THAT COMES BEFORE THE ATTORNEY
9:10:03AM GENERAL.
9:10:03AM SO THAT'S MY ASK FOR THAT.
9:10:05AM WE THE PEOPLE CAN TRUST THE OPINION OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
9:10:09AM ANOTHER ONE IS TO ADDRESS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AS IT
9:10:13AM RELATES TO THE MAYOR.
9:10:15AM NOW, CITY COUNCIL HAS TO ADDRESS THAT IN WRITING.
9:10:17AM SOMETIMES IF WE DON'T GIVE ENOUGH DETAIL, THEY QUESTION
9:10:20AM THAT.
9:10:21AM I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU ADDRESS TODAY AND EVEN GOING FORWARD,
9:10:24AM HOW DO WE RESOLVE THE ISSUES WITH THE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
9:10:26AM FOR THE MAYOR?

9:10:27AM I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE CHARTER WHEN I LOOKED IT UP ONLINE,
9:10:31AM AND I STILL DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A PROCESS, BUT I WOULD
9:10:33AM LIKE FOR THIS CHARTER, AS YOU AMEND IT, I WANT YOU ALL TO
9:10:37AM MAKE SURE THE MAYOR IS JUST AS ACCOUNTABLE AS YOU ARE.
9:10:39AM AGAIN, THANKFUL FOR HER REQUEST TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY AND
9:10:43AM ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:10:44AM AND RIGHT NOW I DON'T HAVE THAT.
9:10:46AM I WANT TO SEE WHAT THAT PROCESS IS FOR THE MAYOR.
9:10:49AM AS IT RELATES TO THE CRB, AGAIN, TOO MUCH HAPPENED WITH THE
9:10:54AM POLICE CHIEF AND THE MAYOR.
9:10:56AM BOTH OF THEM NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.
9:10:59AM I WANT TO SEE THAT SOMEWHERE INDICATED CLEARLY SO THEY CAN'T
9:11:01AM BE INCORRECTLY INTERPRETED IN THE CHARTER.
9:11:04AM WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE A CRB THAT MAKES THEM ACCOUNTABLE.
9:11:07AM THANK YOU.
9:11:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:11:13AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:11:14AM CONNIE BURTON, A PROUD MEMBER OF THE NAACP.
9:11:20AM THE REASON I'M HERE THIS MORNING IS TO, AGAIN, ECHO THE
9:11:25AM CONCERNS OF OUR COMMUNITY OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:11:30AM WE BELIEVE A CHARTER REVIEW BOARD SHOULD HOLD ALL PERSONS
9:11:34AM ACCOUNTABLE.
9:11:34AM WE HAVE SEEN THINGS TRANSPIRE IN OUR COMMUNITIES WHERE
9:11:38AM CONTRACTS HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO AND THEN WE FIND AS YOU PEEL
9:11:43AM BACK THE ONION, RELATIONSHIPS ARE EITHER CONTRACTS THAT

9:11:47AM STARTED ONE WAY, ENDED UP BENEFITING OTHERS WHERE THE
9:11:52AM COMMUNITY, AND ESPECIALLY AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES,
9:11:55AM DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN BIDDING ON THE
9:11:59AM FIRST END OF IT.
9:12:00AM AS FAR AS THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD AND THE CRB, I CAN TELL
9:12:05AM YOU JUST STANDING HERE AND BEING A MEMBER OF THE NAACP, IT
9:12:09AM WAS THAT ORGANIZATION THAT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF STANDING IN
9:12:16AM BEHALF OF CITIZENS, WHETHER IT WAS THROUGH THE LYNCHING OF
9:12:20AM BLACK PEOPLE AND THE NAACP RAISED THE BANNER SAYING THAT
9:12:24AM ANOTHER BLACK MAN WAS LYNCHED.
9:12:26AM AS NAACP HAS CONTINUED TO RISE TO OCCASION OVER THE YEARS TO
9:12:32AM EXPRESS WHEN NIGHT RIDERS, THE CLAN, AND ALSO THE POLICE HAS
9:12:37AM BRUTALIZED OUR COMMUNITY, I CAN TELL YOU IT IS NOT AN EASY
9:12:42AM TASK COMING HERE THIS MORNING BECAUSE WE KNOW FIRSTHAND THE
9:12:45AM HISTORY OF BLACK PEOPLE WHEN WE HAVE STOOD TO EXPRESS OUR
9:12:49AM ISSUES REGARDING ONGOING OPPRESSION, POLICE BRUTALITY, THE
9:12:55AM RETALIATION THAT COMES WITH IT, EVEN DOWN TODAY.
9:12:58AM WE SEE HOW PEOPLE ARE, WHETHER IT WAS MEMBERS OF THE NAACP
9:13:03AM HAVING THEIR HOMES EXPLODED.
9:13:06AM WHETHER WE JUST SEE A RECENT CASE IN MIAMI -- I MEAN, NEW
9:13:11AM YORK CITY, WHERE MEN THAT WAS ACCUSED OF KILLING MALCOLM X
9:13:18AM HAVE HAD TO REACH A $36 MILLION SETTLEMENT.
9:13:21AM WE BELIEVE THAT IF THIS CITY IS TO MOVE FORWARD, WHY NOT
9:13:23AM TRUST THE VOTERS?
9:13:24AM WHY NOT TRUST THE VOTERS AND PUT IT ON THE BALLOT TO ENSURE

9:13:28AM THAT WE CAN BE GUARANTEED TRUST AND ACCOUNTABILITY?
9:13:31AM WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS THAT THE CITY REMOVES ITSELF AS
9:13:35AM BEING THE LEGAL ARMS AND THE EYES OF THE CRB, AND
9:13:41AM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL COME IN AND THAT THAT BODY HAS SUBPOENA
9:13:46AM POWER.
9:13:47AM WHY NOT?
9:13:48AM EVERYBODY IS BEING HELD TO A LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WE
9:13:52AM ARE ASKING THAT YOU, AS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY, STAND IN BEHALF
9:13:56AM OF THE COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN SO OPPRESSED.
9:13:59AM AS WE TALK ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION FROM TALLAHASSEE, WE ARE
9:14:04AM WATCHING TO SEE IF YOU WILL HAVE THE COURAGE AS DEMOCRATS TO
9:14:07AM ENSURE THAT THE CITIZENS OF THIS COMMUNITY CAN VOTE THEIR
9:14:11AM CHOICE.
9:14:12AM THANK YOU.
9:14:14AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:14:23AM >> HELLO.
9:14:24AM DON GREGS.
9:14:25AM THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK HERE TODAY.
9:14:28AM I'M HERE TO MAKE COMMENT ON THE ISSUE OF ADDING SUBPOENA
9:14:32AM POWER AND INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ONTO THE BALLOT FOR THE
9:14:37AM CITIZENS OF TAMPA TO VOTE ON.
9:14:39AM I AGREE THAT WE NEED MORE ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT INTO
9:14:47AM THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
9:14:49AM THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF CASES I COULD REFERENCE, A NUMBER
9:14:52AM OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS THAT

9:14:55AM HAVE SHOWN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT WITHOUT A PROPER CRB
9:14:59AM THAT CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING FOR THE CITIZENS ON BEHALF OF
9:15:02AM THE CITIZENS AND NOT ON BEHALF OF THE CITY, IN ORDER TO
9:15:07AM ACHIEVE THAT TO HAVE A CRB THAT CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE
9:15:13AM OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR US AS CITIZENS, I THINK
9:15:16AM THAT THEY DO NEED SUBPOENA POWER AND INDEPENDENT COUNSEL,
9:15:19AM AND I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON IT.
9:15:21AM I'VE HEARD A LOT OF THINGS GOING AROUND ABOUT THIS BEING
9:15:27AM LIKE SOMETHING THAT FRINGE GROUPS ARE ASKING FOR OR KIND OF
9:15:31AM THE LEGAL THINGS THAT WILL COME ALONG WITH THIS WHEN IT
9:15:35AM COMES TO THE TYPES OF JUDGES AND THE TYPES OF COURTS IT WILL
9:15:41AM GO THROUGH.
9:15:42AM I THINK THAT IS ALL STUFF THAT WE CAN COME TO AFTER WE ALLOW
9:15:46AM CITIZENS TO VOTE ON IT.
9:15:48AM I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD STAND IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE BEING
9:15:50AM ALLOWED TO VOTE ON THIS ISSUE.
9:15:53AM ALL RIGHT.
9:15:54AM THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
9:15:55AM THANK YOU.
9:15:55AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
9:15:57AM NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.
9:16:00AM >> HELLO.
9:16:01AM MY NAME IS PHILLIP.
9:16:03AM I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF GIVING THE CRB SUBPOENA
9:16:07AM POWER AND INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

9:16:09AM AND I WANTED TO SAY THAT GIVING SUBPOENA POWER TO THE CRB
9:16:15AM HAS WORKED IN CITIES SUCH AS MIAMI AND KEY WEST.
9:16:17AM AND I THINK IT WOULD DO GREAT HERE IN TAMPA AS WELL TO MAKE
9:16:21AM THE CITY A SAFER PLACE FOR EVERYONE LIVING WITHIN IT.
9:16:24AM AND I THINK THAT GIVING THE PEOPLE THE POWER TO VOTE ON THIS
9:16:30AM BY PUTTING IT ON THE BALLOT WOULD HELP, LET THE PEOPLE WHO
9:16:35AM COULD NOT BE HERE ON CITY COUNCIL TODAY HAVE THEIR VOICE BE
9:16:38AM HEARD.
9:16:39AM AND THAT'S IT.
9:16:40AM THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY.
9:16:41AM THANK YOU.
9:16:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:16:45AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:16:45AM MY NAME IS LAURA RODRIGUEZ.
9:16:47AM I'M A MEMBER OF TAMPA BAY COMMUNITY ACTION COMMITTEE.
9:16:50AM GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL HERE.
9:16:51AM I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE CHARTER AMENDMENT.
9:16:55AM I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ALLOW VOTERS TO VOTE ON
9:16:58AM THIS.
9:16:58AM IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS ARE DECIDING.
9:17:01AM IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUR CONSTITUENTS WANT AND HONESTLY
9:17:05AM ALLOWING VOTERS TO VOTE ON METHODS OF PUBLIC OVERSIGHT, OVER
9:17:11AM PUBLIC SERVICE IS DEMOCRATIC, AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S
9:17:14AM ANYTHING FAULTY ABOUT THAT.
9:17:16AM WE ALL KNOW THAT THE CRB REVIEWS CLOSED CASES OF THE

9:17:22AM DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS AGAINST CASES OF POLICE MISCONDUCT.
9:17:27AM I THINK HAVING ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT CAN BE FOUND, AND AS
9:17:32AM TIME PASSES, MORE EVIDENCE CAN COME UP FROM THE ORIGINAL
9:17:35AM CASE.
9:17:35AM SO I THINK IT WILL JUST MAKE ASSESSING THESE CASES AND THE
9:17:39AM SEVERITY OF DISCIPLINE APPLIED MORE DEMOCRATIC AND MORE
9:17:44AM HONEST.
9:17:44AM AS ONE OF THESE SO-CALLED FRINGE GROUPS, I THINK YOU'RE NOT
9:17:53AM LISTENING TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS.
9:17:55AM I'M A CONSTITUENT.
9:17:56AM I LIVED HERE IN TAMPA FOR TEN YEARS.
9:17:58AM I VOTE.
9:17:58AM I PAY MY TAXES, AND TO DIMINISH WHAT OUR GROUP IS DOING IS
9:18:08AM HONESTLY LIKE YOU GUYS AREN'T LISTENING TO US.
9:18:12AM ALL WE'VE EVER ASKED IS FOR DEMOCRATIC DEMANDS.
9:18:14AM WE'RE NOT COMING UP HERE YELLING, CALLING YOU ALL NAMES,
9:18:18AM THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.
9:18:20AM BUT, YEAH.
9:18:26AM WE THINK THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC POWER THAT THE PEOPLE NEED TO
9:18:29AM VOTE ON.
9:18:30AM THANK YOU.
9:18:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:18:36AM >> HELLO.
9:18:38AM MY NAME IS DELIA COOKE.
9:18:40AM I'M A MEMBER OF TAMPA BAY COMMUNITY ACTION COMMITTEE.

9:18:42AM I'M ALSO HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF LETTING PEOPLE VOTE ON
9:18:46AM SUBPOENA POWER BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF INSANE THIS IS A BIG
9:18:50AM DEBATE WHEN REALLY WE'RE ASKING YOU TO LET US VOTE.
9:18:54AM I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE A PROGRESSIVE,
9:18:59AM FORWARD CITY AND WHEN WE HAVE TO BEG TO BE ABLE TO VOTE ON
9:19:01AM AN ISSUE THAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT AND THAT PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN
9:19:04AM THAT THEY WANT.
9:19:06AM PEOPLE WANT MORE TRANSPARENCY IN TAMPA.
9:19:08AM AFTER SEEING CASES LIKE JONAS JOSEPH AND DOMINIQUE MULKEY,
9:19:15AM BLACK MEN THAT WERE KILLED, ONE, A BAG OF CHIPS, THE OTHER I
9:19:19AM DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS KILLED FOR BECAUSE THE CASE WAS
9:19:21AM COVERED UP THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.
9:19:23AM WE WANT SUBPOENA POWER BUT WE WANT TO VOTE ON THE DEMOCRATIC
9:19:26AM DEMAND.
9:19:27AM WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE MARCH BALLOT.
9:19:29AM WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO COME HERE AND BEG TO BE ABLE TO
9:19:31AM VOTE FOR THINGS THAT THE PEOPLE WANT, AND THAT WOULD HELP
9:19:35AM THE PEOPLE.
9:19:36AM AND BECAUSE WE LIVE HERE AND THIS AFFECTS US, THE POLICE
9:19:40AM AFFECT US.
9:19:41AM I CAN HEAR THEIR HELICOPTERS AT 3 A.M. EVERY NIGHT.
9:19:44AM SO WE JUST WANT MORE TRANSPARENCY.
9:19:46AM WE WANT MORE ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:19:48AM WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE POLICE ARE SO AFRAID OF
9:19:50AM ACCOUNTABILITY.

9:19:51AM THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
9:19:52AM THANK YOU.
9:19:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:19:58AM >> EXCUSE ME.
9:19:59AM HI.
9:19:59AM MY NAME IS DAVID JONES.
9:20:01AM I'M A MEMBER OF THE TAMPA BAY COMMUNITY ACTION COMMITTEE.
9:20:03AM I'M ALSO SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF PUTTING SUBPOENA POWER ON THIS
9:20:07AM MARCH BALLOT.
9:20:09AM AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, WE'RE TRULY NOT ASKING FOR A LOT.
9:20:13AM WE'RE NOT EVEN ASKING FOR IT TO BE PUSHED THROUGH BECAUSE
9:20:16AM THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU ARE ABLE TO DO RIGHT NOW.
9:20:18AM THE ACTUAL SUBPOENA POWER.
9:20:20AM WE'RE ASKING THAT YOU ALLOW THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA TO VOTE ON
9:20:23AM IT.
9:20:24AM YOU KNOW, ALLOWING BOTH, LIKE, CITY COUNCIL -- EXCUSE ME,
9:20:30AM ALLOWING BOTH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS, LIKE, THE
9:20:33AM CITY OFFICE TO PERSUADE AWAY FROM PUTTING IT ON THE BALLOT,
9:20:41AM PUTTING IT IN FACE OF THE COMMUNITY IS UNDEMOCRATIC.
9:20:44AM IT'S ESSENTIALLY KNEECAPPING DEMOCRACY, SOMETHING THAT THIS
9:20:48AM COUNTRY AND CITY IS BUILT ON ALLEGEDLY.
9:20:51AM ALLOWING FOR THE VOICES OF THE PEOPLE TO BE SHUT DOWN BEFORE
9:20:56AM IT'S EVEN ALLOWED TO, YOU KNOW, FORM IT.
9:20:58AM IS LIKE AMORAL.
9:21:01AM IT'S NOT RIGHT AND SOMETHING YOU ALL SHOULD ACTIVELY FIGHT

9:21:04AM AGAINST.
9:21:04AM THE ISSUE IS LIKE RIGHT NOW IN THE CITY, PEOPLE DON'T FEEL
9:21:09AM THAT THE POLICE IS ACTIVELY WORKING IN THEIR INTEREST.
9:21:12AM PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE IN THE CITY.
9:21:15AM IF WE DID WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME UP HERE AND THIS
9:21:18AM CONVERSATION WOULDN'T START IN THE FIRST PLACE.
9:21:20AM IF THEY DID, THE CRB WOULDN'T HAVE TO EXIST IN THE FIRST
9:21:23AM PLACE.
9:21:23AM IT EXISTS SOLELY BECAUSE THE POLICE LACKING TRUST.
9:21:26AM EXIST SOLELY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN TAMPA SAW THAT THEY WERE
9:21:29AM NOT, YOU KNOW, BEING ACTIVELY REPRESENTED BY THEIR POLICE OR
9:21:34AM WHATEVER.
9:21:35AM SO, YOU KNOW, IF THAT ISSUE CAN'T FIX ITSELF, SOMETHING
9:21:40AM NEEDS TO BE DONE.
9:21:41AM MEASURES NEED TO BE TAKEN IN ORDER TO CAUSE REAL CHANGE TO
9:21:44AM MAKE THINGS BETTER.
9:21:45AM YEAH, SO, ONCE AGAIN, JUST ASKING THAT YOU ALL ALLOW THE
9:21:50AM FOLKS TO VOTE, ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO VOTE BECAUSE AT THE END
9:21:52AM OF THE DAY WHO KNOWS WHAT WE NEED BETTER THAN US.
9:21:57AM I SAY THIS AS DISTRICT 7 RESIDENT.
9:22:01AM AND LIKE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
9:22:05AM PREPARED TO RALLY AND CAMPAIGN REGARDLESS.
9:22:08AM I WOULD PREFER TO CAMPAIGN AROUND THIS ISSUE BUT IF NEED BE,
9:22:14AM WE WILL CAMPAIGN AGAINST YOU ALL BECAUSE SILENCING THE
9:22:18AM PEOPLE BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK IS NOT SOMETHING

9:22:20AM THAT SHOULD BE DONE BY A CITY LEADERSHIP.
9:22:23AM THANK YOU ALL.
9:22:25AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:22:32AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:22:33AM MY NAME IS JOSEPH NOHAVA, MEMBER OF TAMPA BAY COMMUNITY
9:22:37AM ACTION COMMITTEE.
9:22:38AM HERE AGAIN BEFORE YOU TO ASK YOU ALL TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
9:22:41AM AND ALLOW INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND SUBPOENA POWER TO BE GIVEN
9:22:48AM TO THE HANDS OF THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.
9:22:50AM THIS IS A VERY -- OR IT SHOULD BE A VERY EASY DECISION FOR
9:22:54AM YOU ALL BECAUSE REALLY, AGAIN, ALL WE'RE ASKING IS TO JUST
9:22:58AM SIMPLY STEP ASIDE AND ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO DECIDE WHAT THEY
9:23:04AM WANT.
9:23:04AM AND CLEARLY WHAT THEY WANT, WHAT THEY HAVE SHOWN, WHAT THEY
9:23:07AM ARE COMING OUT FOR AND HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT PUBLICLY IS FOR THE
9:23:13AM CRB TO BE GIVEN THESE POWERS.
9:23:16AM BUT WHY?
9:23:16AM RIGHT?
9:23:17AM WHY IS THERE THIS DISTRUST?
9:23:20AM WHY IS THERE THIS ISSUE OF SECRECY, RIGHT, ABOUT THIS WHOLE
9:23:26AM ISSUE?
9:23:26AM WHY IS TPD, WHY IS THE MAYOR'S OFFICE SO AFRAID OF
9:23:31AM ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY?
9:23:32AM I MEAN, AS THE POLICE ARE SO WANT TO SAY, YOU'VE GOT NOTHING
9:23:38AM TO HIDE, THEN WHAT'S THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

9:23:40AM THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY TO THEM.
9:23:44AM IF THEY REALLY AND TRULY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, THEN THIS
9:23:46AM SHOULD BE AN EASY CONTROVERSY-FREE DECISION FOR THEM TO
9:23:50AM MAKE.
9:23:51AM OBVIOUSLY, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF
9:23:56AM MISCONDUCT, RIGHT, AS SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER.
9:23:58AM THE CASES OF DOMINIQUE MULKEY, JONAS JOSEPH, BUT ALSO LITTLE
9:24:05AM MUNDANE THINGS, LIKE BLOWING MONEY AT STRIP CLUBS AND GOLD
9:24:09AM TEETH AND THIS SORT OF THING, RIGHT?
9:24:10AM IT'S STRANGE.
9:24:11AM IT'S BIZARRE.
9:24:12AM AND I DON'T KNOW WHY AS SUPPOSED PUBLIC SERVANTS POLICE ARE
9:24:19AM HELD TO THIS AMAZINGLY, ACCOUNTABILITY-FREE STANDARD, RIGHT?
9:24:26AM I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S SANITATION WORKERS OR THE
9:24:29AM DISTRICT'S TEACHERS, RIGHT, ARE FREE OF ANY KIND OF
9:24:34AM SCRUTINY.
9:24:34AM WHY THE POLICE?
9:24:35AM LIKE, WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO BE FREE OF ANY KIND OF
9:24:41AM SCRUTINY, FREE OF ANY KIND OF INVESTIGATION.
9:24:44AM I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT AND I DON'T THINK A LOT OF THE PEOPLE
9:24:47AM HERE DO EITHER.
9:24:48AM AGAIN, ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS FOR YOU ALL TO STEP ASIDE.
9:24:52AM LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.
9:24:55AM VERY EASY THING.
9:24:56AM WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO VETO OR VOTE UP OR DOWN ON THIS

9:25:01AM ISSUE IN PARTICULAR.
9:25:02AM IT'S JUST A MATTER OF GIVING IT TO THE PEOPLE.
9:25:05AM THANK YOU.
9:25:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:25:13AM >> DAVE COLEMAN.
9:25:15AM I WAS HERE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.
9:25:19AM TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, THOSE THINGS ARE WHAT I'M
9:25:24AM HEARING SO FAR THIS MORNING WOULD CREATE TRUST.
9:25:27AM I HAVE ATTENDED SEVEN OF, LIKE, EIGHT APPROXIMATELY THAT GUN
9:25:34AM VIOLENCE LISTENING SESSIONS THAT TPD HAS PUT ON.
9:25:38AM CONSTANTLY, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THE CHIEF ASKS FOR TRUST
9:25:43AM FROM THE COMMUNITY.
9:25:45AM IT'S ALMOST LIKE A DEMAND.
9:25:47AM SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING.
9:25:48AM IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT I WOULD LIKE
9:25:51AM TO THINK THAT HERE TODAY THE CITY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
9:25:56AM ADVANCE TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY AND PARTNERING WITH THE
9:26:02AM POLICE DEPARTMENT TO CREATE, NOT DEMAND TRUST.
9:26:08AM I STARTED GOING TO THOSE MEETINGS, AND BACK IN FEBRUARY I
9:26:17AM ASKED ABOUT THE SOCIAL WORKER RIDE-ALONG PROGRAM.
9:26:21AM THAT'S NOT PART OF THE CRB, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE
9:26:24AM POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS DOING AND IT'S A REALLY WATERED-DOWN
9:26:28AM PROGRAM.
9:26:28AM I WAS TOLD OVER AND OVER THEY ARE DESIGNING IT FOR TAMPA.
9:26:31AM THEY ARE NOT COPYING ST. PETE OR EUGENE.

9:26:33AM WHAT'S SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT A NONEMERGENCY NUMBER
9:26:36AM THAT A SOCIAL WORKER SHOWS UP ON A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE?
9:26:40AM WHY CAN'T WE ADVANCE NEW IDEAS?
9:26:43AM WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT PROVIDING A LAWYER?
9:26:45AM WHAT'S SO DIFFICULT ABOUT PROVIDING A LAWYER TO THE CRB?
9:26:48AM HAD YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO -- I'M JUST REPEATING MYSELF
9:26:52AM AGAIN AND AGAIN, BUT I HAD THIS WHOLE SPEECH GOING ON.
9:26:56AM BUT YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE TRUST, NOT DEMAND IT,
9:27:01AM AND A POLICE FORCE.
9:27:03AM WHAT KIND OF WORD IS THAT -- A POLICE FORCE?
9:27:09AM RECENTLY -- AND I KNOW IT HAD TO DO WITH THE DEATH OF AN
9:27:12AM OFFICER, BUT WHAT IS A GIANT LION HEAD ABOUT TO DEVOUR THE
9:27:16AM BAD GUYS IN THE CITY?
9:27:17AM WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE ARE YOU TRYING TO SEND TO THE PEOPLE
9:27:22AM LIVING ON MAIN STREET?
9:27:23AM I WROTE ALL THIS DOWN.
9:27:27AM SOMEBODY BROUGHT UP DOMINIQUE MULKEY, A CITIZENS REVIEW
9:27:34AM BOARD, THAT ACTUALLY HAD SOME POWER AND WAS ABLE TO RELATE
9:27:34AM WITH THE COMMUNITY, COULD ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS.
9:27:36AM WHY DO THE POLICE SAY THAT INCIDENT HAPPENED BLOCKS AWAY
9:27:40AM FROM THE STORE?
9:27:41AM IT WAS MERELY DOWN THE SIDEWALK FROM WHERE THE STORE WAS.
9:27:45AM WHY SO MANY GUN BULLET HOLES IN THE FENCE THAT I PUT MY
9:27:48AM FINGER IN AS WE WENT THERE FOR THE VIGIL?
9:27:51AM WHY WERE THE HOUSES IN THE BACKGROUND LIT UP WITH BULLETS?

9:27:57AM WHAT DIRECTION, THERE'S A VIDEO, A SCREEN SHOT WAS RELEASED
9:28:03AM OF HIM TURNING, A SECOND SCREEN SHOT WHERE ORIGINALLY THERE
9:28:07AM WAS A VIDEO AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT VIDEO IS ANYMORE,
9:28:09AM WHERE HE WAS WALKING, HUNCHED OVER WITH HIS ARM DOWN LIKE
9:28:13AM THIS AWAY FROM THE POLICE, WHILE THE POLICE OFFICER DROPPED
9:28:17AM A CLIP AND ADDED ANOTHER CLIP AND FIRED AGAIN BUT ONLY TWO
9:28:22AM BULLETS HIT THIS MAN.
9:28:24AM YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING, TO MAKE THE CRB
9:28:29AM STRONGER AND TO FOLLOW UP WHAT DOES YOU UNANIMOUSLY VOTED
9:28:32AM FOR LAST TIME I WAS HERE AS FAR AS THE SOCIAL WORKER
9:28:35AM RIDE-ALONG PROGRAM TO DO NOTHING WITH IT.
9:28:41AM THEY WANT A WEAKEN NOTHING PROGRAM THAT WILL GO NOWHERE --
9:28:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:28:45AM >> THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE.
9:28:47AM >> GOOD MORNING, JAMES MICHAEL SHAW JUNIOR.
9:28:49AM I'M A VOLUNTEER ATTORNEY WITH THE ACLU OF FLORIDA.
9:28:53AM I'M TAKING OFF OF WORK TO BE HERE TODAY LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE
9:28:55AM BEHIND ME ARE, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.
9:28:57AM SOME OF THEM ARE BEING PAID TO BE HERE.
9:28:59AM I DON'T HAVE MUCH TO SAY THAT I HAVEN'T ALREADY SAID, BUT I
9:29:02AM DO WANT TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS.
9:29:04AM I UNDERSTAND THAT EACH OF YOU WERE PAID A VISIT RECENTLY TO
9:29:07AM DISCUSS THIS AND YOU WERE TOLD THAT IT WOULD COST A MILLION
9:29:10AM DOLLARS A YEAR TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY AND SUBPOENA
9:29:15AM AUTHORITY AND THE STATISTIC CITED IS THAT'S WHAT IT COST

9:29:18AM MIAMI.
9:29:19AM BET YOU WEREN'T TOLD THIS.
9:29:20AM MIAMI EMPLOYS A DIRECTOR, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, A SENIOR
9:29:24AM POLICY ANALYST, THREE INVESTIGATORS, INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY,
9:29:27AM AND ADMINISTRATIVE AIDE, THOSE SALARIES ARE WHAT COST A
9:29:31AM MILLION DOLLARS.
9:29:31AM NOT ENFORCING SUBPOENAS.
9:29:34AM WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY SUBPOENAS THE MIAMI CIVILIAN
9:29:35AM INVESTIGATORY PANEL HAS ISSUED SINCE 2015?
9:29:37AM ONE.
9:29:37AM THE ONE BEFORE THAT WAS IN 2009.
9:29:40AM IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE BECAUSE YOU CAN GET VOLUNTARY
9:29:43AM COMPLIANCE WHEN YOU HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.
9:29:45AM BUT IF YOU WERE TOLD THAT THOSE TWO SUBPOENAS COST HALF A
9:29:48AM MILLION DOLLARS EACH, THEY WERE NOT BEING HONEST WITH YOU.
9:29:50AM IT SHOULD BOTHER YOU MORE THAN IT BOTHERS YOU WHEN PEOPLE
9:29:53AM ARE DISHONEST WITH YOU.
9:29:54AM IT SHOULD REALLY BOTHER YOU WHEN AN INTERIM POLICE CHIEF
9:29:57AM STOOD BEHIND THIS PODIUM AND TOLD YOU, NO, WE DIDN'T
9:30:02AM CHAUFFEUR PEOPLE TO COME SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE CRIME-FREE
9:30:05AM MULTI-HOUSING PROGRAM WHEN THEY DID.
9:30:06AM THE REASON THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE SUBPOENA AUTHORITY IS SO
9:30:10AM THAT THE CIVILIAN -- SO THAT THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD CAN
9:30:14AM ISSUE SUBPOENAS TO NONPARTY WITNESSES.
9:30:17AM ASK YOUR LEGISLATIVE AIDES IF THE PBA CHIEF MADE THE GESTURE

9:30:22AM AT FRANK REDDICK.
9:30:23AM THEY SAW IT.
9:30:24AM WHEN THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS BUREAU INVESTIGATED, THEY
9:30:26AM TALKED TO TWO OR THREE PEOPLE WHO SAID I DIDN'T SEE IT AND
9:30:29AM CONCLUDED IT NEVER HAPPENED.
9:30:31AM THAT'S WHY IT NEEDS TO HAVE SUBPOENA AUTHORITY.
9:30:34AM I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE IDEA THAT FRINGE GROUPS ARE WHAT
9:30:37AM SUPPORTING THIS.
9:30:38AM I SAW SOME OF YOU AT THE NAACP FREEDOM FUND DINNER A COUPLE
9:30:41AM OF FRIDAYS AGO.
9:30:43AM DON'T TELL ME THE NAACP IS A FRINGE GROUP.
9:30:45AM YOU ATE THEIR CHICKEN.
9:30:47AM YOU LISTENED TO THEIR SPEAKERS.
9:30:48AM YOU APPLAUDED AND THEN TWO TUESDAYS FROM NOW YOU'LL VOTE
9:30:52AM LIKE THEY ARE A FRINGE GROUP BECAUSE SOMEBODY TOLD YOU THAT
9:30:54AM THEY WERE.
9:30:54AM THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF FLORIDA IS NOT A
9:30:57AM FRINGE GROUP.
9:30:57AM THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM TOOK THE TIME OFF OF WORK BECAUSE
9:31:00AM THEY CAN.
9:31:00AM WE'RE ALL HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T.
9:31:03AM THE PEOPLE WANT TO VOTE ON THIS.
9:31:05AM WE COMMISSIONED A THIRD PARTY POLL.
9:31:07AM 82% OF THE VOTERS WANT TO VOTE ON THIS.
9:31:10AM YOU WERE ASKED BY YOUR INDIVIDUAL VISITS TO POSITION

9:31:14AM YOURSELVES IN BETWEEN THE VOTERS AND VOTING ON SOMETHING
9:31:16AM THAT THE VOTERS WANT TO VOTE ON, TO STOP THEM FROM DOING
9:31:19AM THAT.
9:31:19AM THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ASKED TO DO.
9:31:21AM DON'T DO IT.
9:31:21AM THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE THINKING WHEN YOU FIRST SOUGHT
9:31:24AM OFFICE.
9:31:24AM WERE YOU SEEKING OFFICE TO POSITION YOURSELF IN BETWEEN THE
9:31:27AM WILL OF THE VOTERS AND THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE ON SOMETHING?
9:31:30AM OR WERE YOU SEEKING OFFICE SO THAT YOU CAN REPRESENT THE
9:31:33AM PEOPLE THAT YOU REPRESENT?
9:31:34AM THANK YOU.
9:31:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:31:43AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:31:44AM YVETTE LEWIS.
9:31:47AM PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP.
9:31:48AM FIRST OF ALL, WE'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1909.
9:31:57AM WE GOING NOWHERE.
9:31:58AM WHOEVER SAID WE WERE A FRINGE GROUP, THAT'S THE LIE THEY
9:32:03AM TELL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY LOOK IN THE MIRROR.
9:32:09AM WHEN I LOOK IN THE MIRROR, I SEE SOMEBODY FIGHTING FOR
9:32:11AM PEOPLE'S CIVIL RIGHTS.
9:32:13AM WHEN I ALSO COME THROUGH THE AIRPORT OR COME THROUGH THE
9:32:16AM AIRPORT THE OTHER DAY, IT STATED, WELCOME TO TAMPA, A
9:32:22AM DIVERSE CITY.

9:32:24AM IT SAID WELCOME TO TAMPA WHERE WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC MAYOR
9:32:28AM AND A DEMOCRATIC COUNCIL.
9:32:31AM IT SAID WELCOME, BUT YET WE DON'T FEEL WELCOME BECAUSE SOME
9:32:35AM OF OUR VOICES ARE BEING SILENCED IN THIS CITY.
9:32:39AM EVERY TIME WE COME DOWN HERE, AND WHEN I SAY "WE," I'M
9:32:45AM SPEAKING AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN.
9:32:48AM WE COME DOWN HERE BEGGING, ASKING, AND PLEADING FOR YOUR
9:32:52AM HELP, FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE WITH SOMETHING.
9:32:56AM I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE THE ONLY RACE IN THIS
9:33:02AM CITY THAT HAS TO BEG TO GET THE SIMPLEST THINGS.
9:33:06AM BUT YET YOU COME TO OUR COMMUNITY, YOU SIT THERE -- YOU SIT
9:33:14AM THERE, COME TO US AND HAVE DINNER WITH US AND WE GET
9:33:18AM NOTHING.
9:33:18AM BUT YOU WANT OUR VOTE.
9:33:20AM YOU WANT OUR SUPPORT.
9:33:22AM I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO GO THROUGH
9:33:27AM THIS WITH YOU-ALL.
9:33:31AM LET'S SAY IT STARTED BACK WITH OUR ANCESTORS.
9:33:33AM LET'S GO BACK TO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN CEMETERIES THAT WE
9:33:36AM STILL HAVEN'T RESOLVED THE ISSUE ON IN THE CITY OF TAMPA
9:33:38AM BECAUSE THE LAND WAS STOLEN.
9:33:40AM WE DIDN'T START BACK WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
9:33:46AM IT STARTED WITH US.
9:33:47AM THEY STARTED THAT.
9:33:49AM WE DIDN'T START CRIME-FREE HOUSING, RENTING WHILE BLACK.

9:33:54AM THEY STARTED WITH US.
9:33:58AM WE DID NOT START THIS.
9:34:00AM WE WANT TO LIVE IN A DIVERSE CITY.
9:34:02AM HE WANT TO LIVE WHERE WE HAVE A VOICE.
9:34:06AM AND WHAT WE CAN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR KIDS TO GO OUT
9:34:10AM AND PLAY.
9:34:11AM THE NAACP WANT A SAFE COMMUNITY.
9:34:13AM BUT WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
9:34:20AM THE HARDEST THING AND THE MOST FRIGHTENING THING IS WHEN YOU
9:34:24AM RIDING DOWN THE STREET AND YOU SEE THEM BLUE LIGHTS GET
9:34:28AM BEHIND YOU BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GOING TO ENTAIL.
9:34:34AM I FEAR MY LIFE AND I'M THE PRESIDENT.
9:34:36AM ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR YOU TO DO, AND IF YOU WANT ME TO SAY,
9:34:40AM ALL WE BEGGING YOU TO DO IS JUST VOTE TO PUT IT ON THE
9:34:43AM BALLOT AND LET IT STAND UP OR DOWN.
9:34:46AM GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE.
9:34:47AM YOU ASKED US FOR OUR VOTE.
9:34:51AM HELL, SOME OF YOU ALL MEMBERS OF THE NAACP.
9:34:54AM I SAW YOU ALL AT THE DINNER.
9:34:56AM THEY CALL YOUR NAME.
9:34:57AM YOU STOOD UP AND WAVED.
9:34:59AM I WOULD BE DYING IF YOU CALLED US A FRINGE GROUP.
9:35:08AM BEEN IN THE CITY TOO LONG.
9:35:09AM BEEN FIGHTING TOO LONG.
9:35:11AM ALL OF YOU ALL KNOW THAT.

9:35:12AM WE DESERVE BETTER AND THE CITY OF TAMPA BAY.
9:35:20AM THIS CITY HAS ATTACKED THIS ORGANIZATION JUST BECAUSE WE
9:35:22AM STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE.
9:35:25AM THE CITY HAS TRIED TO SHUT US DOWN BECAUSE WE STAND UP AND
9:35:31AM FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE.
9:35:32AM WE'RE GOING TO KEEP FIGHTING BECAUSE THIS ORGANIZATION HAS
9:35:36AM BEEN AROUND SINCE 1909.
9:35:39AM WE AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.
9:35:40AM SO WHOEVER YOU SEND AS YOUR ATTACK DOGS, I PROMISE YOU -- I
9:35:47AM PROMISE YOU I GOT A LEGAL DEPARTMENT THAT WILL SHUT IT DOWN
9:35:51AM AND EMBARK ON THIS CITY, AND WE WILL HAVE AN ALL-OUT LEGAL
9:35:58AM WAR.
9:35:59AM GIVE THE PEOPLE SOMETHING INSTEAD OF AN EMPTY PROMISE AND A
9:36:04AM CUP OF TEA.
9:36:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:36:12AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:36:13AM RASHEED AQUIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD.
9:36:17AM TODAY I STAND AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD AND THE STATEMENTS
9:36:22AM THAT I SHARE TODAY ARE OF MY OWN AND NO REPRESENTATION TO
9:36:27AM THE BOARD ITSELF.
9:36:29AM FEW THINGS I WANT TO BRING TO YOUR-ALL'S ATTENTION TO TAKE
9:36:33AM INTO CONSIDERATION.
9:36:35AM ONE IS THROUGH OUR YEARS OF SERVING ON THE BOARD, WORKING
9:36:41AM WITH VARIOUS STAFF MEMBERS OF THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT,
9:36:46AM WE HAVE MADE -- AND I SAY WE -- BOARD MEMBERS HAVE MADE ALL

9:36:50AM TYPES OF REQUESTS IN REFERENCE TO TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT
9:36:56AM MATTERS.
9:36:56AM EVERY SINGLE REQUEST WAS FULFILLED.
9:37:02AM WE HAVE 100% SUPPORT FROM THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT IN
9:37:05AM EVERYTHING THAT WE ASKED FOR IN REFERENCE TO POLICY,
9:37:09AM STATISTICS, PRESENTATION, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
9:37:12AM WE HAVE NOT YET SEEN OR NEED SUBPOENA POWER AS TO THIS
9:37:19AM MOMENT.
9:37:19AM IT HAS NOT GOTTEN IN THE WAY OF US DOING OUR
9:37:22AM RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE CITY.
9:37:23AM NOT STATING MAY NOT NEED IT IN THE FUTURE BUT AS OF THIS
9:37:28AM POINT, IT HAS NOT CREATED ANY HURDLE IN US DOING DUE
9:37:34AM DILIGENCE IN SERVING THIS COMMUNITY.
9:37:35AM THE OTHER STATEMENT IS THAT WE DID TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION
9:37:39AM AND DISCUSSION ON OUR AGENDA AND HOWEVER WE DO REPRESENT THE
9:37:43AM PEOPLE.
9:37:44AM THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM THAT IS -- WE DO HAVE
9:37:51AM RESPONSIBILITY TO UPHOLD SUCH STAGE.
9:37:59AM IN SAYING THAT, WE DID TAKE A VOTE AND THE MEMBERS DID VOTE
9:38:02AM UNANIMOUSLY TO ALLOW THIS SUBJECT TO BE PUT ON THE BALLOT.
9:38:08AM IT WAS A UNANIMOUS VOTE TAKEN WITH THE CITIZEN REVIEW BOARD.
9:38:13AM I WANT THAT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AS WELL AS THE SUPPORT
9:38:15AM OF EVERY REQUEST ASKED BY MEMBERS OF THE CITIZENS REVIEW
9:38:21AM BOARD HAS BEEN FULFILLED 110% AND AS OF THIS POINT, WE HAD
9:38:27AM NO NEED OR HAVE NOT SEEN ANY VALUE IN REFERENCE TO EVEN

9:38:32AM OBTAINING SUCH POWER OR SUBPOENA POWER.
9:38:35AM THANK YOU.
9:38:42AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: TRANSPARENCY.
9:38:42AM I DID MEET WITH THE CHIEF ON FRIDAY.
9:38:44AM WOULD BE MAKING A PHONE CALL TO THE CRB CHAIRMAN.
9:38:47AM I DID SPEAK WITH HIM ABOUT 20 MINUTES ON THE PHONE, FRIDAY
9:38:50AM EVENING, I BELIEVE.
9:38:51AM HE DID SHARE HIS CONCERNS.
9:38:53AM I WANT ALL THE INFORMATION WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT, DID TALK
9:38:56AM ABOUT THE VOTE AND OTHER ISSUES.
9:38:58AM HE DID TELL THEM WHAT TRANSPIRED DURING HIS TIME AS CHAIRMAN
9:39:03AM OF THE BOARD.
9:39:11AM >> METESNOT, UHURU, IT MEETS FREEDOM IN SWAHILI.
9:39:19AM WE AS AFRICAN PEOPLE SHOULD ALWAYS BE THINKING ABOUT OUR
9:39:22AM FREEDOM.
9:39:22AM SINCE 1400, WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE THINKING ABOUT OUR FREEDOM.
9:39:26AM SOME OF OUR PEOPLE AND SOME PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT
9:39:31AM FREEDOM.
9:39:32AM SOME PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT FREEDOM, BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE
9:39:39AM INDOCTRINATED IN A CERTAIN WAY WHERE THEY BEGIN TO BELIEVE
9:39:44AM THE PROPAGANDA THAT'S FED TO THEM.
9:39:47AM AND SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE IN THEIR OWN PROPAGANDA.
9:39:52AM SOME PEOPLE ARE HANDSOME AND THEN THEY BEGIN TO BELIEVE THAT
9:39:55AM THEY LOOK SO GOOD THAT THEY HAVE CERTAIN RIGHTS OVER OTHER
9:40:01AM PEOPLE.

9:40:01AM AND THEY THINK THEIR LOOKS WOULD GET THEM PLACES BUT IN THE
9:40:04AM REAL WORLD, IT DON'T WORK LIKE THAT.
9:40:10AM NOT HOW THE REAL WORLD WORKS.
9:40:12AM WHEN PEOPLE GET REAL, THEN PEOPLE NEED REAL RESULTS, REAL
9:40:15AM SOLUTIONS, REAL SUGGESTIONS, PEOPLE NEED REAL
9:40:18AM REPRESENTATION.
9:40:19AM THEY NEED REAL TRANSPARENCY.
9:40:21AM THEY NEED REAL ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:40:24AM THEY DON'T NEED TALKING HEADS.
9:40:27AM WHO WOULD THINK IN THIS CITY, WHO WOULD THINK IN THIS WORLD,
9:40:31AM WHO WOULD THINK IN THIS WORLD, IN THIS WHOLE WORLD, WITH
9:40:34AM EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON FROM IMMIGRATION TO SEPARATE, THE
9:40:42AM SEPARATION FROM RIGHTS, WHO WOULD THINK IN THIS WORLD THAT
9:40:46AM AN AFRICAN MAN, BLACKER THAN ME, WOULD STAND BEFORE THIS
9:40:52AM PODIUM AND SAY WE DON'T NEED ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:41:00AM WE DON'T NEED SUBPOENA POWER.
9:41:01AM WHO WOULD SAY THAT?
9:41:02AM WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD SAY THAT?
9:41:05AM YOU CAN GET JEFF VINIK TO COME DOWN HERE AND SAY THAT.
9:41:09AM HE PROBABLY COULD BECAUSE EVERYTHING RIGHT WITH HIM.
9:41:12AM YOU COULD GET THE POLICE TO SAY THAT, BECAUSE THEY KNOW
9:41:14AM EVERYTHING IS NOT RIGHT WITH THEM.
9:41:16AM QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THE FACT THAT EVERYTHING IS NOT RIGHT
9:41:20AM WITH THEM.
9:41:20AM THEY KNOW HOW THEY ABUSE INSIDE THE COMMUNITIES.

9:41:24AM THEY KNOW HOW THEY ABUSE US WHEN THEY GET US ONE ON ONE.
9:41:28AM THEY KNOW HOW TO ABUSE US IN PUBLIC.
9:41:30AM THEY KNOW, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION.
9:41:33AM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
9:41:36AM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION.
9:41:38AM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO OPPOSE 1776 INDEPENDENCE AND 250 YEARS
9:41:46AM LATER AND WE BLACK PEOPLE DOWN HERE STILL BEGGING FOR
9:41:49AM INDEPENDENCE AND THE POLICE STILL CATCH YOU ON THE STREET
9:41:51AM AND ASK YOU, MAY I SEARCH YOU?
9:41:53AM MAY I SEARCH YOUR CAR?
9:41:55AM THEY KNOW GOOD AND MFING WELL YOU COULDN'T ASK THEM THAT
9:42:03AM QUESTION.
9:42:03AM YOU COULDN'T ASK THEM THAT QUESTION IF THEY HAD A DEAD BODY
9:42:04AM INSIDE THEIR HOME.
9:42:05AM YOU COULDN'T ASK THEM.
9:42:05AM THEY SAY, NO, GO AND GET A SUBPOENA.
9:42:07AM SO THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE NEED.
9:42:07AM THE PEOPLE NEED TRANSPARENCY.
9:42:11AM WE NEED SOMETHING, AND EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A VOICE.
9:42:15AM BUT WHAT YOU HEARD BEFORE ME RIGHT HERE, THAT'S NOT A VOICE.
9:42:19AM THAT'S SOMEONE THAT'S INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT BY A CORRUPT
9:42:24AM SYSTEM THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET STRAIGHT.
9:42:27AM THE PEOPLE NEED SUBPOENA POWER.
9:42:28AM THE CITY NEEDS IT BECAUSE THE CITY NEEDS TRANSPARENCY AND
9:42:32AM THEY NEED IT.

9:42:33AM THEY SHOULD BE UP HERE ASKING.
9:42:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:42:44AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:42:45AM I'M ROSIO.
9:42:48AM I'M A MEMBER OF THE STUDENTS FOR A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, AND
9:42:50AM THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT.
9:42:52AM I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE ON SUBPOENA POWER
9:42:57AM AND GIVE THE CRB THE ABILITY TO INVESTIGATE AND HAVE THEIR
9:43:02AM OWN LAWYERS.
9:43:03AM AS HE SAID, THE PERSON BEFORE ME, WE KNOW THAT TAMPA BAY IS
9:43:07AM KIND OF KNOWN FOR RUNNING LIKE A MOB.
9:43:10AM THEY KEEP CRIMES HIDDEN, SECRET AND ONLY COMES TO LIGHT
9:43:13AM AFTER WE PUSH AND PUSH AND MAYBE SOMEONE HAS SOME VIDEO
9:43:16AM EVIDENCE.
9:43:17AM SO IF WE WANT ACCOUNTABILITY AND JUSTICE FROM TAMPA BAY PD,
9:43:23AM WE'RE GOING TO NEED SOME TRANSPARENCY.
9:43:28AM I HOPE YOU GUYS ALLOW US TO VOTE ON SUBPOENA POWER IN CRB.
9:43:31AM THANK YOU.
9:43:35AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:43:37AM >> HI.
9:43:38AM ENYA.
9:43:40AM ME AND MY FAMILY LIVED IN TAMPA THE PAST 15 YEARS.
9:43:43AM I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF LETTING PEOPLE VOTE ON
9:43:47AM GIVING THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD SUBPOENA POWER AND
9:43:51AM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.

9:43:51AM IN MY TIME LIVING HERE, I CAN REMEMBER COUNTLESS MOMENTS
9:43:54AM WHERE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BETRAYED THE PUBLIC TRUST IN SO
9:43:59AM MANY WORDS.
9:43:59AM ACCOUNTABILITY INCREASES THE PUBLIC TRUST.
9:44:04AM EVERY JOB REQUIRES ACCOUNTABILITY.
9:44:05AM I THINK IT'S EXTRA IMPORTANT WHEN THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE AT
9:44:08AM YOUR JOB ARE A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
9:44:11AM THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC DEMAND.
9:44:13AM IT'S LETTING THE PEOPLE VOTE ON IT.
9:44:15AM I THINK IT'S VERY UNDEMOCRATIC THAT OTHER FORCES IN THE CITY
9:44:18AM OF TAMPA ARE TRYING TO SWAY YOU GUYS FROM TAKING THIS
9:44:22AM DECISION AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE.
9:44:23AM SO I HOPE THAT YOU WILL MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION AND ALLOW
9:44:26AM THE PEOPLE OF TAMPA TO DECIDE.
9:44:28AM THANK YOU.
9:44:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:44:35AM >> HI.
9:44:36AM MY NAME IS SIMON ROE.
9:44:39AM I'VE SPOKEN HERE BEFORE.
9:44:41AM I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS BALLOT MEASURE.
9:44:44AM I WANT TO CLARIFY, LIKE, SOME THINGS ABOUT SUBPOENA POWER
9:44:50AM BASED ON WHAT I'VE HEARD PERSONALLY.
9:44:52AM BASICALLY, WE WANT REGULAR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN TAMPA TO HAVE
9:44:56AM A CHANCE TO VOTE ON THIS.
9:44:57AM YOU'VE SEEN ME BEFORE.

9:44:59AM YOU'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF PEOPLE HERE BEFORE.
9:45:01AM WE'RE LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO COME TO THESE BUT NOT EVERYONE IS.
9:45:04AM SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN TAMPA ARE ABLE TO DO IS
9:45:08AM ACCESS A BALLOT BOX RIGHT NOW, SO THAT WOULD BE A PERFECT
9:45:11AM WAY TO GET THEIR FEEDBACK.
9:45:13AM WHILE WE ARE ADVOCATING FOR SUBPOENA POWER, WE ARE WELL
9:45:22AM AWARE THAT BECAUSE OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER BILL OF
9:45:24AM RIGHTS, YOU CANNOT SUBPOENA POLICE OFFICERS DIRECTLY.
9:45:28AM WE'RE AWARE OF THAT BUT WE STILL WANT THE CRB TO HAVE
9:45:33AM SUBPOENA POWER.
9:45:33AM WE STILL THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO HAVE IT.
9:45:37AM ALSO HEARD MENTION THAT SUBPOENA POWER IS SOME OUTLANDISH,
9:45:43AM STRANGE THING FOR LIKE A PUBLIC BODY TO HAVE WHEN SEVERAL
9:45:47AM DEPARTMENTS OF THE CITY HAVE IT, THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD,
9:45:51AM THE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD.
9:45:57AM LIKE EVEN THE SUBPOENA POWER IS WHAT CITY COUNCIL HAS, I
9:46:02AM THINK.
9:46:03AM IMAGINE IF SOMEONE INSINUATED THAT BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE THE
9:46:07AM POWER YOU WOULD VIOLATE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.
9:46:11AM NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.
9:46:13AM IT IS A VERY COMMON FEATURE OF OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
9:46:16AM IT'S NOT A VIOLATION OF RIGHTS TO SUBPOENA PEOPLE.
9:46:20AM BUT WHEN PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT AND IT'S HYPED UP AS
9:46:24AM THIS BIG EVIL THING, IT IS A FAIRLY COMMONSENSE DEMAND.
9:46:28AM THAT'S WHY SEVERAL OTHER CITIES HERE IN FLORIDA HAVE

9:46:31AM SUBPOENA POWER.
9:46:33AM I THINK IT'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO HAVE.
9:46:36AM TO SPEAK MORE PERSONALLY BECAUSE THINKING BACK LIKE THE CRB
9:46:42AM MEMBERS' COMMENTS ABOUT THE HURT, LIKE, PEOPLE DO GET HURT
9:46:49AM BY POLICE.
9:46:50AM IN 2021, I WAS ARRESTED FOR TRESPASSING, AND WHEN I WAS
9:46:54AM ARRESTED, DURING A PAT-DOWN, THE OFFICER GRABBED THE PECKER
9:47:01AM I HAD IN MY PANTS AND SQUEEZED IT.
9:47:04AM IT WAS VERY VIOLATING.
9:47:06AM IT REALLY UPSET ME AS A TRANSPERSON.
9:47:09AM IT DID NOT MAKE ME FEEL SAFE IN MY OWN BODY.
9:47:13AM THIS IS NOT SOMETHING UNIQUE TO ME.
9:47:14AM THIS IS SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPERIENCE.
9:47:16AM I'M JUST ONE PERSON.
9:47:18AM AND EVEN HERE IN TAMPA, LIKE JENNY DE LEON WHO WAS MURDERED,
9:47:22AM A YEAR BEFORE HER MURDER WAS CHOKED OUT AND TASED BY HCSO
9:47:27AM OFFICER.
9:47:27AM AND WE DIDN'T EVEN SEE THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE.
9:47:31AM WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL SOMEONE HAD TO GET
9:47:33AM THAT INFORMATION.
9:47:34AM SOMEONE PUT IN AN OFFICE REQUEST AND TALLY.
9:47:38AM PLEASE, LET OUR STORIES BE HEARD.
9:47:38AM LET US VOTE.
9:47:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:47:46AM >> HELLO.

9:47:47AM MY NAME IS GIA DAVILA.
9:47:51AM I'M HERE WITH TAMPA BAY STUDENTS FOR A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY AS
9:47:55AM WELL.
9:47:55AM HERE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF SUBPOENA POWER ON THE BALLOT.
9:47:58AM WHAT ARE WE AS STUDENTS, AS COMMUNITY MEMBERS SUPPOSED TO DO
9:48:02AM WHEN THE COPS DON'T KEEP US SAFE, WHEN THE COPS HURT US AND
9:48:05AM ATTACK US, WHEN THEY DON'T KEEP OUR FAMILIES SAFE.
9:48:08AM POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY IS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS LACK OF
9:48:12AM JUSTICE.
9:48:12AM WHAT IS WRONG WITH POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY?
9:48:14AM WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE PEOPLE HAVING A SAY OVER WHO POLICES
9:48:18AM THEM?
9:48:18AM SUBPOENA POWER IS A VERY BASIC NECESSITY THAT THE PEOPLE
9:48:22AM CLEARLY SUPPORT IN A VAST MAJORITY.
9:48:25AM LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE SAID, WE'RE SKIPPING SCHOOL.
9:48:27AM WE'RE SKIPPING WORK.
9:48:28AM THIS IS NOT LIKE A FUN DAY AT THE PARK FOR US.
9:48:34AM AND PEOPLE CLEARLY SUPPORT THIS.
9:48:36AM MILITARIZED POLICE -- SORRY, DOESN'T KEEP US SAFE.
9:48:42AM IT DOESN'T KEEP THE PEOPLE OF TAMPA SAFE, BUT POLICE
9:48:45AM ACCOUNTABILITY CAN BE.
9:48:46AM AND THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS THAT, SO WHY SHOULDN'T
9:48:50AM THE PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO VOTE TO KEEP THEMSELVES SAFE?
9:48:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
9:48:57AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.

9:48:58AM KELLY BENJAMIN, 504 -- STREET, TAMPA.
9:49:03AM I JUST WANTED TO ECHO SOME OF THE COMMENTS FROM OUR FELLOW
9:49:06AM MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY AND PROVIDE SOME HISTORICAL
9:49:10AM PERSPECTIVE.
9:49:10AM MANY OF YOU WERE HERE SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN THIS ISSUE WAS
9:49:14AM FIRST BROUGHT IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL.
9:49:16AM SEVEN YEARS AGO WHEN CHAIRMAN REDDICK STOOD -- SAT WHERE YOU
9:49:20AM ARE SITTING TODAY, COUNCILMAN CITRO, AND THE MOTIVATION FOR
9:49:27AM ACCOUNTABILITY AND CREATING A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE
9:49:30AM POLICE DEPARTMENT CAME OUT OF SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE
9:49:33AM IN THE NEWS AT THE TIME.
9:49:36AM OBVIOUSLY BIKING WHILE BLACK, BUT ALSO INCIDENCES THAT
9:49:39AM OCCURRED WITH INTERACTIONS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE
9:49:42AM HORRIBLE DEATH OF JASON WESTCOTT AND A FEW OTHER PEOPLE THAT
9:49:46AM HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS.
9:49:47AM THIS LATEST ATTEMPT -- AND IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE AND
9:49:56AM SHOCKING THAT IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS
9:49:59AM BEEN ASKING THIS BOARD FOR A SENSE OF ACCOUNTABILITY, A
9:50:05AM SENSE OF A SAY IN THE WAY COMMUNITIES ARE POLICED.
9:50:09AM THAT'S ALL IT IS, TO CREATE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP.
9:50:12AM I KNOW SOME OF YOU UP THERE ARE SCHOLARS OF LOCAL HISTORY,
9:50:17AM THE HISTORY OF TAMPA, THE HISTORY OF OUR NATION.
9:50:19AM WE'VE SEEN SOME PROGRESS, I HOPE, OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS,
9:50:25AM DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, DURING WHAT TRANSPIRED
9:50:29AM HERE WHERE AS COUNCILMAN VIERA HAS POINTED OUT ON HIS

9:50:36AM CRUSADE TO CREATE LYNCHING MEMORIALS IN THE CITY, WE KNOW
9:50:40AM THE HISTORY OF THIS CITY AND WE KNOW THERE IS A LEGACY THAT
9:50:43AM STILL EXISTS WITH PARTS OF THE ESTABLISHMENT HERE.
9:50:48AM A LEGACY WITH SEGMENTS.
9:50:51AM I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER, AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT
9:50:53AM ALL OF YOU HAVE AS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES TO HELP CREATE
9:50:57AM THE KIND OF COMMUNITY THAT WE WANT TO RAISE OUR CHILDREN IN
9:51:00AM MOVING FORWARD.
9:51:02AM THIS IS NOT AND IT SHOULD NOT BE SEEN AND IT'S SO SAD THAT
9:51:08AM SOME PEOPLE SEE THIS AS SOME BIG ADVERSARIAL THING THAT IS
9:51:14AM ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT, THAT SOMEHOW FRINGE.
9:51:17AM IT SHOWS THAT YOU LIVE IN A LITTLE BIT OF A BUBBLE WHEN YOU
9:51:21AM SAY THERE ARE FRINGE GROUPS OUT HERE AND TRY AND MARGINALIZE
9:51:24AM ALL THE PEOPLE OUT HERE WHO HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR SOME VERY
9:51:28AM CLEAR STANDARDS.
9:51:30AM SUBPOENA POWER, AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THAT MAYBE
9:51:33AM THE CITY ATTORNEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERING IN TERMS OF WHO THIS
9:51:37AM CITY ATTORNEY REPRESENTS HERE.
9:51:39AM I URGE THIS COUNCIL TO MOVE THE CITY FORWARD TODAY WITH AN
9:51:47AM OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THIS ISSUE AND FINALLY GET -- AND I
9:51:51AM DON'T WANT TO GET INTO WHY THAT ORIGINAL PUSH FAILED SEVEN
9:51:56AM YEARS AGO WHEN BUCKHORN CREATED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER AND PUT
9:52:00AM ALL OF HIS PEOPLE ON THAT COUNCIL.
9:52:03AM SO THERE IS A REASON WHY TODAY MAYBE SOME OF THESE
9:52:05AM INVESTIGATIONS AREN'T HAPPENING PROPERLY ON THE CRB.

9:52:08AM I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE AND IMPORTANT
9:52:10AM TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT WE HAD APPOINTMENTS THAT ARE
9:52:15AM PUSHED AND TUGGED BY MAYOR CASTOR TO MAKE SURE THAT CERTAIN
9:52:20AM PEOPLE ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THAT BOARD.
9:52:23AM I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE.
9:52:24AM LET'S MOVE THIS CITY FORWARD TODAY.
9:52:26AM HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WAYS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE SOME
9:52:28AM ACCOUNTABILITY AND REALLY THINK ABOUT THE SENTIMENTS OF THE
9:52:35AM PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP AND THE ACLU WHO CAME BEFORE YOU.
9:52:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, MR. BENJAMIN.
9:52:40AM >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
9:52:49AM >> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, HONORABLE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.
9:52:52AM KIMBERLY HEINEMAN, CHIEF ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY IN THE
9:52:56AM STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN THE 13th DISTRICT.
9:52:58AM I'M HERE TODAY TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF SUBPOENA POWER WITH
9:53:01AM THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD.
9:53:03AM OUR OFFICE STANDS FOR THE SAME PRINCIPLES AS THE CITY OF
9:53:07AM TRANSPARENCY AND REVIEW.
9:53:09AM HOWEVER, TODAY, WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT, I KNOW
9:53:12AM MR. WISEMAN, WHO IS OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAS TALKED WITH
9:53:15AM THE COUNCIL BEFORE, HAS TALKED WITH SOME OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY
9:53:18AM BEFORE.
9:53:20AM MY PURPOSE HERE TODAY IS TO TALK ABOUT HOW THIS AFFECTS THE
9:53:23AM STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND THE FUNCTION OF THE STATE
9:53:25AM ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

9:53:25AM IN ADDITION TO THE ISSUES THAT SOME OF THE OTHER SPEAKERS
9:53:31AM HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHERE YOU HAVE TO NAVIGATE WHAT SUBPOENA
9:53:34AM POWER MEANS, WHICH IS THAT TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY?
9:53:37AM IS IT USE IMMUNITY?
9:53:39AM WHAT IS THE JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT OVER THAT?
9:53:41AM ALMOST EVERY ONE OF THESE CASES INVOLVES A CORRESPONDING
9:53:46AM PROSECUTION.
9:53:47AM AND A CIVIL BODY ACTING AND TAKING STATEMENTS FROM PEOPLE
9:53:53AM CREATES PROBLEMS WITH OUR CASES.
9:53:55AM THAT'S SIMPLY THE BOTTOM LINE.
9:53:57AM WE HAVE HAD THIS POSITION SINCE WE BEGAN THE DISCUSSION
9:54:00AM ABOUT SUBPOENA POWER I THINK REALLY IN 2017.
9:54:03AM THAT POSITION REMAINS THE SAME TODAY.
9:54:05AM OUR CONCERNS CORRESPOND TO OUR ABILITY TO PROSECUTE
9:54:09AM OFFENDERS, BRING PEOPLE TO JUSTICE AND DO THE WORK THAT THE
9:54:12AM STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS REQUIRED TO DO HERE IN
9:54:15AM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
9:54:16AM I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS YOU
9:54:19AM THIS MORNING AS WELL AS THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU DO FOR
9:54:22AM OUR GREAT CITY.
9:54:24AM WE'RE HONORED TO SERVE WITH YOU AND THE MEMBERS OF THE TAMPA
9:54:27AM POLICE DEPARTMENT IN SERVING THE CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH
9:54:28AM COUNTY.
9:54:31AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. CHAIRMAN?
9:54:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: COUNCILMAN GUDES.

9:54:33AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: ARE YOU REPRESENTING THE STATE ATTORNEY'S
9:54:35AM OFFICE?
9:54:36AM >> YES, SIR.
9:54:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I HAVE ONE QUESTION.
9:54:37AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I CAN, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE THE
9:54:40AM FACILITATOR.
9:54:41AM WE ARE A BIT OFF THE ROAD MAP THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BE
9:54:46AM USING.
9:54:47AM IF IT'S COUNCIL'S PLEASURE, IT'S THE TIME, WE DO HAVE HER
9:54:53AM HERE FOR THE PURPOSE OF FACILITATING.
9:54:55AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, MR. SHELBY.
9:54:56AM YOU HAVE BEEN WITH THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HOW MANY
9:54:58AM YEARS?
9:54:59AM >> SINCE 2005, SIR.
9:55:00AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THAT'S REPRESENTING THE PAST STATE ATTORNEY.
9:55:04AM >> OUR POSITION REGARDLESS OF WHO THE STATE ATTORNEY IS HAS
9:55:07AM NEVER CHANGED.
9:55:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: PLEASE CONTINUE, COUNCILMAN GUDES.
9:55:09AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU, MR.
9:55:11AM SHELBY.
9:55:12AM MY QUESTION WOULD BE TODAY, IF YOU'RE SAYING THIS -- WHAT
9:55:17AM MAKES WHAT YOU'RE SAYING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT DADE AND
9:55:20AM BROWARD AND SOME OF THE OTHERS ARE DOING?
9:55:22AM SEEMS LIKE A CONFLICT HERE IF YOU'RE TELLING ME IT WILL
9:55:26AM HINDER VERSUS THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT.

9:55:28AM I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE DIFFERENCE, MA'AM.
9:55:30AM THIS IS FOR THE PUBLIC.
9:55:32AM >> I UNDERSTAND.
9:55:33AM COUNCILMAN GUDES, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS
9:55:35AM AND WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE I DON'T OPERATE THERE.
9:55:37AM I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT OUR OFFICE HAS GIVEN THIS CAREFUL
9:55:40AM CONSIDERATION AND TALKED ABOUT HOW IT AFFECTS OUR CASES AND
9:55:43AM THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO ADDRESS THIS MORNING.
9:55:44AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
9:55:46AM >> YEP.
9:55:52AM >> GOOD MORNING.
9:55:53AM MY NAME IS EJ SALCINES.
9:55:56AM I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME OF MY EXPERIENCES
9:56:00AM IN MY CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT HERE.
9:56:04AM I WAS ASKED EARLIER IN THE PROCEEDING, DOES THE CITY
9:56:07AM COUNCIL, IN YOUR OPINION, HAVE AUTHORITY TO CREATE A
9:56:14AM SUBPOENA POWER?
9:56:15AM I WOULD THINK THAT UNDER YOUR HOME RULE YOUR ATTORNEYS WILL
9:56:20AM TELL YOU YES, IT IS ESTABLISHED THAT YOU HAVE AUTHORITY TO
9:56:25AM CREATE A SUBPOENA POWER.
9:56:29AM HOWEVER, REMEMBER THE WORD "SUBPOENA" IMPLIES THAT THERE IS
9:56:36AM SOME JUDICIAL AUTHORITY BEHIND THE COMPELLING AUTHORITY TO
9:56:44AM BRING SOMEONE TO TESTIFY.
9:56:47AM THEREFORE, YES, YOU MAY CREATE A POWER TO SUBPOENA.
9:56:56AM HOWEVER, REMEMBER, YOUR POWER EXTENDS ONLY AS FAR AS THE

9:57:01AM LIMITS OF YOUR CITY.
9:57:05AM THEREFORE, YOUR SUBPOENA POWER IS NOT BEYOND THE LIMITS OF
9:57:10AM THE CITY OF TAMPA.
9:57:12AM THAT'S WHY HISTORICALLY FOR OVER 150 YEARS, MUNICIPALITIES
9:57:20AM HAVE DEPENDED ON TWO MAJOR INVESTIGATORY AGENCIES IN EVERY
9:57:30AM ONE OF OUR 67 COUNTIES.
9:57:33AM NUMBER ONE, THE RESIDENT STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS THE
9:57:38AM JUDICIAL AUTHORITY TO ISSUE SUBPOENA, NOT JUST TO TESTIFY,
9:57:44AM BUT TO PRODUCE DOCUMENTS AND RECORDS CALLED SUBPOENA
9:57:50AM DUCES TECUM.
9:57:53AM THE SECOND MOST POWERFUL IS YOUR COUNTY GRAND JURY.
9:57:55AM THE COUNTY GRAND JURY EXISTS IN EVERY ONE OF OUR 67
9:58:01AM COUNTIES.
9:58:01AM THEY GENERALLY ARE PRESIDED BY THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE
9:58:06AM CIRCUIT.
9:58:08AM THEREFORE, AT ANY TIME THAT THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE
9:58:12AM PLANT CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE TEMPLE TERRACE POLICE
9:58:16AM DEPARTMENT, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
9:58:23AM LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE FLORIDA HIGHWAY PATROL, THE FLORIDA
9:58:28AM WILDLIFE COMMISSION, WHENEVER THEY NEED A SUBPOENA POWER,
9:58:34AM THE DOOR IN THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS OPEN AND
9:58:38AM SUBPOENAS ARE ISSUED.
9:58:41AM ASSUME THAT THE CITY CREATES A SUBPOENA POWER FOR THE
9:58:47AM CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD ON WHICH I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF
9:58:50AM SERVING AS ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THAT BOARD.

9:58:56AM WHAT IF THE PERSON REFUSES TO APPEAR?
9:59:03AM WHAT IF THE PERSON REFUSES TO BRING FORTH THE DOCUMENTS THAT
9:59:09AM YOU ARE SUBPOENAING AS THE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD?
9:59:13AM YOU DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT A CONTEMPT PROCEEDING.
9:59:21AM THAT IS DONE EXCLUSIVELY BY AN INDEPENDENT JUDICIAL
9:59:28AM FUNCTIONARY THAT WE CALL A JUDGE.
9:59:31AM THEREFORE, THE SUBPOENA POWER IS BASED ON A JUDICIAL
9:59:38AM FUNCTION AND NOT AN ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTION.
9:59:41AM SO SOONER OR LATER, IF YOU CREATED THE SUBPOENA POWER, YOUR
9:59:46AM BOARD WOULD HAVE TO ASK A JUDICIAL OFFICER IN THE CIRCUIT OR
9:59:53AM THE COUNTY TO INTERVENE ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.
9:59:57AM THE NEXT THING THAT I WANT TO ALSO CALL YOUR ATTENTION --
10:00:02AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: WITH RESPECT YOUR HONOR, WITH RESPECT, I'LL
10:00:06AM GIVE YOU 30 SECONDS MORE.
10:00:08AM WITH RESPECT, YOUR HONOR, I'LL GIVE YOU 30 SECONDS MORE.
10:00:12AM >> YES, SIR.
10:00:13AM IN CLOSING, LET ME SAY THAT WITH THE SUBPOENA POWER YOU
10:00:18AM CANNOT FORGET THE CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEES THAT ARE
10:00:23AM GUARANTEED TO ALL CITIZENS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE
10:00:27AM STATE OF FLORIDA AS WELL AS THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED
10:00:31AM STATES, NAMELY THE FIFTH AMENDMENT.
10:00:36AM IF SOMEONE REFUSES, YOU CANNOT COMPEL THE PERSON.
10:00:42AM IF YOU WERE IN FRONT OF A JUDICIAL OFFICER, THEN OTHER
10:00:47AM ISSUES COULD COME UP.
10:00:48AM I ALERT YOU THAT BY GIVING A LOCAL COMMITTEE A SUBPOENA

10:00:57AM POWER, THE OTHER PROBLEM IS THE MINE FIELD THAT YOU ARE
10:01:03AM CREATING FOR THAT AGENCY.
10:01:06AM THAT IS, BY SUBPOENAING SOMEONE OR DOCUMENTS, ARE YOU
10:01:11AM CREATING A TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY, A USE IMMUNITY, LIMITED
10:01:19AM IMMUNITY, PLENARY IMMUNITY?
10:01:22AM THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE VERY COMPLICATED AND I URGE YOU,
10:01:28AM HAVE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY REVIEW THOSE ISSUES WITH YOU SO THAT
10:01:33AM YOU CAN PROCEED CONSTITUTIONALLY AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH YOUR
10:01:39AM WISHES TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY.
10:01:40AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:01:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
10:01:51AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
10:01:53AM BRANDON BARKLEY, VICE PRESIDENT TAMPA PBA.
10:01:56AM I'M HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS THE CRB.
10:01:58AM FOR TWO YEARS WE HELPED NEGOTIATE THE CRB RULES AND HERE WE
10:02:01AM ARE YET AGAIN IN VOIDING THAT ENTIRE TWO-YEAR DEBATE.
10:02:05AM LET'S CUT STRAIGHT TO THE FACTS.
10:02:07AM THE CRB HAS NOT REQUESTED OR VOTED ON GIVING THEIR SELF
10:02:11AM THEIR OWN POWER.
10:02:12AM YOU JUST HEARD FROM THE CHAIRMAN HIMSELF WHO SAID THEY DON'T
10:02:14AM EVEN NEED IT.
10:02:17AM A REQUEST DID SHOW MR. SHAW OF THE ACLU AND MR. VALDEZ ON
10:02:21AM THE CRB HAVE BEEN WORKING EXTENSIVELY TOGETHER TO PUSH MR.
10:02:25AM SHAW'S AGENDA.
10:02:27AM THIS IS CLEARLY LAID OUT IN THE E-MAILS WHICH INDICATES

10:02:30AM THERE ARE TELEPHONE CALLS AND ZOOM MEETINGS WHICH TAKE PLACE
10:02:33AM REGULARLY BETWEEN THE TWO.
10:02:34AM MR. SHAW'S CLAIM THAT IT'S FOR TRANSPARENCY, THAT THIS
10:02:38AM TRANSPARENCY NARRATIVE IS FALSE.
10:02:41AM THIS IS ABOUT ADVANCING THE ACLU, ITS ATTORNEY AND ONE CRB
10:02:47AM MEMBER'S OPINION.
10:02:49AM THE AGENDA IS FAIRNESS.
10:02:51AM IT'S FAIRNESS TO EVERYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE TAMPA POLICE
10:02:53AM OFFICER.
10:02:54AM AND FOR THAT, WE'RE GOING TO AMEND OUR ENTIRE CHARTER.
10:02:57AM THERE ARE SIX LEVELS OF REVIEW FOR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
10:03:01AM IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
10:03:02AM I NOTICED NOBODY HERE CLEARLY LAID THAT OUT FOR YOU.
10:03:05AM CRIMINAL JUSTICE TRAINING COMMISSION, INTERNAL AFFAIRS,
10:03:08AM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS BUREAU, STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE,
10:03:10AM FDLE, ALL OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS WATCH OVER EVERYTHING
10:03:15AM THAT'S DONE.
10:03:17AM FOR THEM TO SAY THERE'S ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY IS LAUGHABLE.
10:03:19AM OF THE 47 CRB CASES THAT HAVE BEEN HEARD, ONLY FOUR OF THOSE
10:03:24AM CASES RESULTED IN A DIFFERENT RECOMMENDATION.
10:03:28AM OF THE 47 CASES, ONLY FOUR OF THEM WAS THERE A DISAGREEMENT
10:03:32AM THAT CURRENTLY HAVE BEEN HEARD.
10:03:33AM MR. SHAW IS VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED AND HOSTILE TO ALL LAW
10:03:38AM ENFORCEMENT OF ANY KIND, AS IS EVIDENT BY HIS RECENT
10:03:40AM Facebook POST MOCKING DECEASED MASTER PATROL OFFICER

10:03:44AM JESSE MADSEN'S MEMORIAL.
10:03:46AM JAMES SHAW REFERENCED DECEASED MASTER POLICE OFFICER
10:03:49AM JESSE MADSEN'S MEMORIAL DEDICATION AS THE FOLLOWING, AND I
10:03:51AM QUOTE.
10:03:52AM THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.
10:03:53AM THEY ARE ALSO GOING TO RENAME AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AFTER HIM
10:03:55AM IN HIS HONOR, THEN THEY ARE GOING TO RELOCATE A MEMORIAL
10:03:59AM SCULPTURE TO THE NEWLY RENAMED ELEMENTARY SCHOOL RIGHT IN
10:04:01AM FRONT OF THE DOOR.
10:04:02AM I HOPE THAT THEY DO THE SAME THING FOR ME WHEN I DIE.
10:04:05AM SO PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU SUPPORT THIS, YOU'RE
10:04:09AM SUPPORTING MR. SHAW WHO MAKES NO ATTEMPT TO HIDE HIS DISDAIN
10:04:13AM FOR THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
10:04:14AM IF THIS IS HOW HE SPEAKS ABOUT OFFICERS KILLED IN THE LINE
10:04:18AM OF DUTY, IMAGINE HOW HE'S GOING TO TREAT THEM ONCE YOU HAND
10:04:21AM OVER THE CRB TO HIM.
10:04:23AM THANK YOU.
10:04:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:04:25AM >> I FEEL LIKE I OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO THAT.
10:04:28AM MAY I?
10:04:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: PLEASE, MR. SHAW, PLEASE BE SEATED.
10:04:32AM IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WITHIN CHAMBERS THAT WISHES TO SPEAK
10:04:38AM DURING PUBLIC COMMENT?
10:04:41AM >> GOOD MORNING.
10:04:43AM CARLOS VALDEZ.

10:04:44AM I AM A MEMBER OF THE CRB.
10:04:46AM I JUST WANT TO SHARE AND STATE THAT MY COMMUNICATION WITH
10:04:49AM MR. SHAW WAS TO GET EDUCATED ON DIFFERENT ITEMS AND ASPECTS
10:04:53AM AS IT RELATES TO THE DISCUSSION AS IT RELATES TO PUTTING
10:04:56AM THESE ISSUES ON THE BALLOT.
10:04:58AM SO WE HAD JUST ONE DISCUSSION.
10:05:00AM IT WAS NOT A RELATIVELY LONG DISCUSSION OR ANY TYPE OF
10:05:03AM PLANNING.
10:05:04AM THANK YOU.
10:05:04AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:05:05AM IS THERE ANYONE WITHIN CHAMBERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A
10:05:09AM PUBLIC COMMENT?
10:05:09AM SEEING NONE --
10:05:15AM >> [INAUDIBLE]
10:05:15AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: WE DO HAVE ONLINE.
10:05:17AM THANK YOU.
10:05:20AM MR. DeANGELO.
10:05:22AM ARE YOU ONLINE?
10:05:25AM MR. DeANGELO?
10:05:30AM WE WILL GO TO MS. POYNOR.
10:05:37AM MS. POYNOR, ARE YOU ONLINE?
10:05:39AM MS. POYNOR?
10:05:45AM WE WILL GO TO MS. CARROLL ANN BENNETT.
10:05:51AM MS. BENNETT, ARE YOU ONLINE?
10:05:52AM >> I WAS MUTED.

10:05:53AM I'M SORRY.
10:05:54AM CAN YOU HEAR ME?
10:05:55AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: IS THIS MS. POYNOR?
10:05:57AM >> YES, SIR.
10:05:58AM STEPHANIE POYNOR.
10:05:59AM I FOUND IT QUITE INTERESTING SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED BEFORE
10:06:03AM THIS MEETING THAT I'VE REALLY NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
10:06:06AM THE MAYOR AND THE FORMER MAYOR POSTED ABOUT IT ON SOCIAL
10:06:10AM MEDIA.
10:06:11AM KIND OF SHOCKING TO ME.
10:06:14AM I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN
10:06:16AM WHAT MOST FOLKS TALKED ABOUT.
10:06:19AM I HAVE TO SAY I'M WITH THOSE FOLKS BEING CONCERNED ABOUT
10:06:22AM WHAT'S GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES IN OUR CITY WITHOUT HAVING
10:06:25AM ANY ABILITY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
10:06:27AM THE INDIVIDUALS PERSONALLY OFFENDED BY CHARTER AMENDMENTS
10:06:32AM MIGHT BE PUT ON THE BALLOT -- I'M SORRY, AS INDIVIDUALS
10:06:36AM PERSONALLY OFFENDED -- OKAY.
10:06:38AM FORGET IT.
10:06:39AM I'M SICK AND TIRED OF ONE PERSON DENYING THE VOTERS' VOICE
10:06:45AM AT THE BALLOT.
10:06:47AM OFFER TRANSPORTATION TWICE.
10:06:48AM ANDREW WARREN'S REMOVAL, ONCE.
10:06:50AM AND, OF COURSE, COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER'S FORCED RESIGNATION.
10:06:54AM ISN'T THAT ENOUGH BULLYING FROM ONE PERSON FOR THE VOTERS OF

10:07:00AM THIS CITY, FOR THE VOTERS OF THE COUNTY?
10:07:02AM WE NEED TO GET AWAY FROM THE THOUGHT THAT ONE PERSON GETS TO
10:07:07AM DICTATE TERMS TO EVERYONE IN OUR AREA.
10:07:13AM I LOOK AT THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA AND THE LIST THAT MR.
10:07:15AM SHELBY HAS SUBMITTED WITH FULL UNDERSTANDING BEHIND EACH
10:07:19AM REQUEST.
10:07:19AM IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SOMEONE IS ASKING FOR SOME OF
10:07:22AM THESE AMENDMENTS, MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO PAY MORE
10:07:25AM ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
10:07:27AM THERE ARE SO MANY IMPORTANT ITEMS TO BE ADDRESSED TODAY, BUT
10:07:31AM MY PASSION LIES WITH THE ABSOLUTE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE
10:07:35AM ETHICS INVESTIGATIONS THAT HAVE COST OUR CITY $325,000 OVER
10:07:39AM THE LAST YEAR OR SO.
10:07:40AM WE HAVE A NONPARTISAN ETHICS COMMISSION, BUT THE
10:07:45AM INVESTIGATIONS OF BOTH CITY COUNCILMAN GUDES AND CITY
10:07:49AM COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER IGNORED THAT COMMISSION.
10:07:56AM WHY?
10:07:57AM THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.
10:08:00AM I WANT TO KNOW WHO HAD THAT INVESTIGATION STARTED.
10:08:03AM HOW IS THAT LEGAL WHEN THE PURSE STRINGS OF THIS CITY ARE
10:08:07AM HELD BY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING ON THAT DAIS?
10:08:09AM THE COMMENT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT FOUR OF YOU FOLKS WERE ON
10:08:15AM LAST YEAR'S CHARTER REVIEW, I WOULD ARGUE THAT LIKELY YOU
10:08:20AM GUYS KNOW BETTER THAN ANYONE BECAUSE YOU WERE ON THE CHARTER
10:08:23AM REVIEW WHY THESE AMENDMENTS NEED TO BE MADE.

10:08:27AM THE WORLD IS A DIFFERENT PLACE SINCE 2019.
10:08:30AM WE'VE LIVED THROUGH A PANDEMIC, BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT,
10:08:34AM ME TOO MOVEMENT, HOUSING CRISIS, HURRICANES ETTA, IAN AND
10:08:38AM MORE.
10:08:38AM AS A TEACHER OF HISTORY, WE HAD THE ARTICLES OF
10:08:41AM CONFEDERATION AND THEY WERE CRAP.
10:08:43AM THEY WERE SO BAD THEY HAD TO BE TRASHED AND WE HAD SOME OF
10:08:48AM THE BEST THINKERS IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY REWROTE A
10:08:53AM NEW DOCUMENT CALLED THE CONSTITUTION, AND IT STILL HAS
10:08:56AM AMENDMENTS.
10:08:57AM SO WHY THE PUSH BACK ON AMENDING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT
10:09:01AM CURRENTLY WORKING I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
10:09:05AM I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO NOTE IF THE NAACP DIDN'T SOMEBODY GIVE
10:09:11AM THEM A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OUT OF THE BUDGET?
10:09:15AM IF THEY ARE A FRINGE ORGANIZATION, MAYBE SOMEBODY SHOULD
10:09:17AM LOOK INTO THAT FURTHER, BUT I'M KIND OF THING THAT
10:09:20AM LEGITIMIZING THE NAACP BY GIVING THEM $100,000 OF OUR TAX
10:09:25AM MONEY KIND OF MAKES THE STATEMENT THAT THEY ARE I THINK FROM
10:09:28AM A REAL ISSUE FOR ME.
10:09:30AM HAVE A GOOD DAY.
10:09:32AM THANK YOU.
10:09:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:09:33AM MS. BENNETT, ARE YOU ONLINE?
10:09:37AM >> HI.
10:09:38AM MY NAME IS CARROLL ANN BENNETT.

10:09:39AM I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION IS TO ALL THE PROBLEMS, BUT I
10:09:43AM CAN TELL YOU WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE AND HOW CONCERNED I AM
10:09:48AM ABOUT THEM AND HOW I BELIEVE SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE
10:09:50AM ABOUT IT.
10:09:51AM I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE ATTACKED
10:09:59AM AND THAT COINCIDENTALLY THE THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAD A
10:10:04AM SIMILAR VOTING PATTERN.
10:10:05AM I'M CONCERNED THAT SLAP LAWSUITS WILL BE USED TO REMOVE
10:10:08AM COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ARE ONLY DOING THEIR JOBS FOR THE
10:10:12AM CITIZENS.
10:10:13AM I'M CONCERNED THAT LAWSUITS ARE BEING WEAPONIZED TO PUT FEAR
10:10:16AM IN ELECTED OFFICIALS.
10:10:18AM I'M AFRAID THAT THE WEAPON OF CRUSHING LEGAL FEES WILL BE
10:10:21AM USED TO CONTROL OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.
10:10:24AM WE MUST DO SOMETHING THAT WOULD PROTECT THE INDEPENDENCE OF
10:10:28AM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS SO THEY CAN DO THEIR JOB.
10:10:31AM WE MUST TAKE ACTION TO DEFEND THEM SO THEY ARE NOT AFRAID TO
10:10:38AM VOTE THE WAY THEY THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY TO VOTE.
10:10:40AM I'M CONCERNED THAT $300,000, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS HALF THE
10:10:44AM CITY'S ANNUAL SIDEWALK FUND, WAS SPENT ON ONE COMPLAINT BY
10:10:52AM ONE PERSON THAT HAD NOT FILED A LAWSUIT.
10:10:58AM THERE WAS NO SWORN TESTIMONY.
10:11:00AM THERE WAS NO CROSS.
10:11:02AM EXAMINATION.
10:11:03AM THERE WAS A WRITTEN REQUEST FROM THE EMPLOYEE BEGGING THE

10:11:06AM CITY TO STOP THE INVESTIGATION.
10:11:10AM IF A CORPORATION SETTLED A COMPLAINT LIKE THAT WITH NO
10:11:17AM LAWSUIT, NO SWORN TESTIMONY, NO CROSS-EXAMINATION, AND A
10:11:21AM WRITTEN REQUEST TO STOP, THE STOCKHOLDERS WOULD SUE.
10:11:25AM TAX MONEY WAS SPENT ON $100,000 IN LEGAL FEES.
10:11:33AM WE HAVE AN ETHICS COMMISSION.
10:11:35AM WHY WASN'T THIS SENT TO THEM?
10:11:38AM I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY OTHER COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE CITY
10:11:41AM HAVE BEEN SETTLED THIS WAY, AND THIS IS NOT A RHETORICAL
10:11:44AM QUESTION.
10:11:44AM I REALLY WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY OTHER COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE
10:11:48AM CITY HAVE BEEN SETTLED THIS WAY?
10:11:50AM THANK YOU.
10:11:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:11:53AM IS MR. DeANGELO ONLINE?
10:11:58AM >>THE CLERK: CHAIR, MR. DEANGELO DID NOT SIGN ON THIS
10:12:01AM MORNING, SO THAT WOULD CONCLUDE PUBLIC COMMENTS.
10:12:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:12:05AM I ALSO HAVE MS. McCASKILL ON THE LIST, BUT I BELIEVE SHE
10:12:11AM APPEARED EARLIER AND SPOKE IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS.
10:12:13AM COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:12:16AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:12:18AM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN I JUST SPEAK FIRST?
10:12:20AM IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THIS AND ALSO THE TWEETS LAST NIGHT.
10:12:25AM UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE MAYOR AND HER PREDECESSOR, THIS IS THE

10:12:28AM UNITED STATES AND WE HAVE A SEPARATION OF POWER IN THE
10:12:31AM UNITED STATES.
10:12:32AM WE BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES.
10:12:34AM WE BELIEVE IN A BALANCE OF POWER IN THE UNITED STATES.
10:12:36AM THE PEOPLE WHO FORMED OUR GOVERNMENT AND ALSO FORMED THE
10:12:40AM CITY AND THE STATE FORMED IT IN A WAY THAT THERE IS A
10:12:44AM BALANCE SO ONE PERSON COULDN'T CONTROL EVERYTHING AND SO
10:12:46AM THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD HAVE ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION.
10:12:48AM THAT REPRESENTATION HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO BE SHOWN BECAUSE OF
10:12:53AM A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED INSIDE THE CITY.
10:12:55AM PEOPLE COME AND TALK ABOUT MODIFYING THE CHARTER.
10:12:59AM IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CHARTER THAT THE CITY COUNCIL COULD
10:13:02AM MODIFY IT.
10:13:03AM WHEN WE WERE ON THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, WE ADDED THE
10:13:05AM CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION COMING BACK EVERY TEN YEARS.
10:13:08AM IT'S NOT BREAKING THE RULES BY DOING THAT.
10:13:10AM THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS.
10:13:11AM BUT THE REASON WHY I'M HERE AND MY CONCERN TODAY IS THERE IS
10:13:14AM A THIRD WAY OF EDITING THE CHARTER, AND THAT'S BY PRIOR
10:13:17AM OPINIONS OF PRIOR CITY ATTORNEYS.
10:13:18AM THEY HAVE MADE OPINIONS THAT HAVE IN EFFECT CHANGED THE
10:13:21AM CHARTER.
10:13:22AM FOR EXAMPLE, THE CLAIM THAT CITY COUNCIL CAN'T DELEGATE
10:13:25AM SUBPOENA POWER BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE IT.
10:13:28AM IT'S IN SECTION 2.14.

10:13:30AM I CAN READ IT IF YOU ALL WANT.
10:13:30AM WE HAVE IT.
10:13:32AM WHY WOULD A CITY ATTORNEY GIVE A FALSE OPINION LIKE THAT?
10:13:34AM THEY SAID THAT ONLY THE MAYOR CAN NAME BUILDINGS.
10:13:37AM THAT'S NOT IN THE CHARTER EITHER.
10:13:38AM THERE ARE MANY, MANY CLAIMS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY -- FORMER
10:13:41AM CITY ATTORNEYS HAVE MADE WITH TWO PARAGRAPHS EFFECTIVELY
10:13:44AM CHANGING THE CHARTER.
10:13:45AM THIS IS NOT DEMOCRATIC.
10:13:46AM EVEN IF WE VOTE ON SOMETHING TODAY, IT HAS TO GO BEFORE
10:13:49AM VOTERS.
10:13:49AM THE VOTERS WILL DECIDE THIS.
10:13:50AM WHY NOT LET VOTERS HAVE THE DECISION.
10:13:53AM IT'S ABOUT MUCH MORE THAN THE CRB HERE TODAY.
10:13:55AM IT'S ABOUT THE BALANCE OF POWERS AND MAKING SURE THAT WE
10:13:57AM HAVE ADEQUATE LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR THE VOTERS THAT WE
10:14:02AM REPRESENT AND WE HAVE TO UNDO THESE OTHER THINGS.
10:14:04AM THERE'S BEEN A DISCUSSION ABOUT CHARTER VERSUS ORDINANCE,
10:14:06AM AND IF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS NOW GOING TO MAKE THAT CLAIM
10:14:09AM TODAY, I WOULD SAY SINCE WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS FOR MORE
10:14:11AM THAN A YEAR, WHY HAVEN'T THEY COME FORWARD BEFORE NOW AND
10:14:14AM SAID, WHY DON'T YOU PUT THESE THINGS IN ORDINANCES?
10:14:17AM THEY HAVE NOT.
10:14:18AM WE HAVE TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT.
10:14:20AM UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION, CITY COUNCIL IS TASKED

10:14:22AM AND VOTED TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT.
10:14:24AM WHY IS IT TOOK SIX MONTHS FOR US TO FIND OUT WHO MADE THE
10:14:28AM DECISION TO NOT PUT HANNA AVENUE OUT FOR VOTE?
10:14:31AM WHY TOOK ALMOST SIX MONTHS TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE CITY OF
10:14:34AM TAMPA IS UNDER THE UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CIVIL
10:14:37AM RIGHTS INVESTIGATION?
10:14:37AM SECOND TIME, BIGGEST THING THAT HAPPENED IN THE CITY AND
10:14:41AM TOOK MONTHS TO FIND OUT.
10:14:42AM WHY IS IT LAST WEEK I ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INCENDIARY
10:14:46AM PLANT AND STAFF WOULDN'T TELL ME THE ANSWERS.
10:14:48AM WOULDN'T TELL ME WHAT THE 10 YEAR COSTS OR THE 30 YEAR COST.
10:14:52AM THE ROME YARD CONTRACT, COULDN'T GET ANSWERS TO IT.
10:14:56AM WHY IS IT WHEN WE ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT TOILET TO TAP THEY
10:15:00AM GIVE DIFFERENT ANSWERS AND TRY TO HIDE ANSWERS.
10:15:02AM THE PUBLIC WANTS US TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT.
10:15:05AM TO PROVIDE THE OVERSIGHT, WE NEED PROPER LEGAL COUNSEL.
10:15:08AM WHY IS IT THERE IS LOBBYING?
10:15:09AM WHY IS IT YESTERDAY MY AIDE HAD A CITY ATTORNEY REPRESENTED,
10:15:14AM TPD, AND NOT A CITY ATTORNEY REPRESENTING CITY COUNCIL?
10:15:17AM CITY ATTORNEY ALSO REPRESENTS CITY COUNCIL.
10:15:20AM THE CITY ATTORNEY IS SUPPOSED TO BE OBJECTIVE IN
10:15:22AM REPRESENTING ITS CLIENTS OR IT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE CLEAR
10:15:26AM WHICH CLIENT IT IS REPRESENTING AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN MY
10:15:29AM BRIEFING.
10:15:30AM I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THEM.

10:15:31AM MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY IS THE ADMINISTRATION AND FORMER
10:15:33AM ADMINISTRATION AFRAID?
10:15:34AM WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF.
10:15:37AM THE TWEETS LAST NIGHT REPRESENT FEAR.
10:15:40AM ARE THEY AFRAID WE'LL PROVIDE MORE OVERSIGHT, AFRAID WE'LL
10:15:44AM GET PROPER LEGAL COUNSEL?
10:15:45AM AFRAID THAT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT WILL BE OBJECTIVE AND NOT
10:15:48AM SKEW IT TO WHAT WE WANT.
10:15:50AM ARE THEY AFRAID WE'LL CALL THEM OUT ON BEING LOBBYISTS?
10:15:53AM WE HAVE FOUR MEMBERS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION HERE
10:15:55AM AND TWO ON LEGAL STAFF.
10:15:57AM WE HAVE UNIQUE EXPERIENCE TO BE ABLE TO BRING TO THE TABLE
10:16:00AM TODAY TO EDIT SOME OF THE THINGS, FIX THE PROBLEMS SO THE
10:16:03AM PUBLIC HAS PROPER REPRESENTATION.
10:16:04AM THIS IS ABOUT THE PUBLIC, NOT US.
10:16:06AM ULTIMATELY THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO DECIDE.
10:16:08AM WHY SHOULDN'T THE PUBLIC DECIDE THESE THINGS?
10:16:12AM ULTIMATELY WE ARE ALL, I THINK, GOING UP FOR ELECTION IN
10:16:15AM MARCH AND MAYBE AGAIN IN MAY.
10:16:17AM THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY AGREE WITH US
10:16:20AM TODAY.
10:16:20AM THEY ARE GOING TO DECIDE ABOUT DECISIONS WE'RE GOING TO
10:16:22AM MAKE.
10:16:22AM THEY ARE GOING TO DECIDE ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE
10:16:25AM ALLOWED LOBBYING WITHIN THE CITY.

10:16:27AM THEY ARE GOING TO ASK US IF WE PROVIDE OVERSIGHT.
10:16:30AM THE MAYOR IS NOT GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER WE GET REELECTED.
10:16:33AM IN FACT, THE MAYOR IS PROBABLY BELOW 50% IN POPULARITY RIGHT
10:16:36AM NOW.
10:16:36AM THAT'S WHY THERE'S MOVEMENT FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO TRY
10:16:39AM TO FIND SOMEBODY TO RUN AGAINST HER.
10:16:41AM IT'S TIME FOR US TO REPRESENT THIS CITY AND PROVIDE PROPER
10:16:46AM OVERSIGHT AND GET LEGAL COUNSEL THAT REPRESENTS US.
10:16:50AM SOMEBODY MENTIONED A CORPORATION.
10:16:51AM IF THERE WAS A CORPORATION AND I FOUND THAT MY LAW FIRM WAS
10:16:54AM REPRESENTING MY OPPOSITION AND WORKING AGAINST ME, I WOULD
10:16:57AM FIRE THEM AND SUE THEM.
10:16:59AM I WOULD MAKE SURE THEY GET DISBARRED.
10:17:00AM IF WE DON'T AMEND THIS CHARTER, WE'RE GOING DOWN A PATH
10:17:05AM WHERE WE'LL HAVE BIG PROBLEMS IN THIS CITY BECAUSE WE CANNOT
10:17:08AM GO ON WITH BIAS COUNSEL, BIAS COVERAGE.
10:17:13AM WE NEED TO PROPERLY REPRESENT THE CITY AND VOTERS OF THE
10:17:17AM CITY AND WE NEED PROPER LEGAL COUNSEL.
10:17:20AM THANK YOU.
10:17:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: MR. SHELBY, PLEASE.
10:17:22AM CHIEF BENNETT, THERE WERE SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS ASKED.
10:17:25AM WOULD YOU LIKE TO ANSWER ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS?
10:17:32AM >>JOHN BENNETT: GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
10:17:33AM GOOD MORNING, CHAIRMAN.
10:17:34AM GOOD MORNING, PUBLIC.

10:17:35AM JOHN BENNETT, CHIEF OF STAFF.
10:17:36AM WE ARE HERE FOR THE PUBLIC TODAY, AND I THINK OVER THE LAST
10:17:41AM THREE YEARS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION WE'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT
10:17:44AM AS AN ADMINISTRATION, I DON'T GET INTO POLITICS.
10:17:47AM I DON'T DO TWEETS.
10:17:49AM I DON'T DO SOCIAL MEDIA.
10:17:50AM I JUST COME IN AND WORK 15 HOURS A DAY ALONG WITH A LOT OF
10:17:53AM MY COLLEAGUES TO TRY TO GET THE CITY TO MOVE FORWARD.
10:17:56AM I'LL TAKE LITERALLY THREE SECONDS AND SHOW SOMETHING THAT I
10:17:59AM THINK IS A PICTURE OF A THOUSAND WORDS.
10:18:02AM I ASKED FOR THIS PICTURE AND NOBODY ELSE DID.
10:18:05AM THE REASON I ASKED FOR IT IS BECAUSE I WENT THROUGH THE CRB
10:18:08AM PROCESS WITH YOU, WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WITH THE
10:18:10AM PUBLIC OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
10:18:14AM THIS WAS THE SIGNING CEREMONY WHERE THE MAYOR, THE MAYOR
10:18:18AM STOOD DOWN THE PROCESS AND MOVED TOGETHER TO BRING AN
10:18:22AM ORDINANCE AND AN EXECUTIVE ORDER AND UNITED.
10:18:25AM THIS IS PROGRESS.
10:18:27AM WE'VE BEEN SHOWING PROGRESS.
10:18:28AM I'M ASKING WHAT IS THE GAP THAT WE HAVEN'T CLOSED?
10:18:32AM THANK YOU.
10:18:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: MR. SHELBY.
10:18:44AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: COUNCIL HAD DIRECTED ME TO HIRE A
10:18:46AM FACILITATOR TO FACILITATE THE PROCESS.
10:18:49AM AND THE PROCESS WAS SET FORTH BY THE FACILITATOR AND IT WAS

10:18:55AM DONE FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE AND, FRANKLY, COUNCIL HAS
10:18:59AM INVESTED IN HAVING THE FACILITATOR TO CONTROL THE PROCESS
10:19:05AM AND ACHIEVE THE OUTCOMES WHICH HAVEN'T, QUITE FRANKLY, AND
10:19:07AM THE OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS HASN'T EVEN BEEN DISCUSSED YET.
10:19:11AM THAT BEING SAID, MR. CHAIRMAN, RESPECTFULLY TO YOU AND TO
10:19:15AM THE REST OF COUNCIL, THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A FACILITATOR IS
10:19:19AM TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE FACILITATOR CONTROL THE PROCESS WITH
10:19:25AM COUNCIL'S ASSENT.
10:19:26AM AND UP UNTIL THIS POINT, I DON'T BELIEVE SHE HAS EVEN
10:19:28AM STEPPED TO THE PODIUM AND WE'VE ALREADY HAD PUBLIC COMMENT
10:19:30AM AND WE'VE HAD COMMENTS OF CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF.
10:19:33AM IT'S COUNCIL'S PLEASURE HOW THEY WANT TO CONDUCT THIS
10:19:36AM MEETING.
10:19:36AM BUT IT TOOK SOME TIME --
10:19:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: MR. SHELBY, THEREIN LIES THE QUESTION THAT I
10:19:41AM AM GOING TO ASK OUR FACILITATOR.
10:19:43AM THANK YOU.
10:19:44AM MS. SCHROEDER.
10:19:47AM GOOD MORNING.
10:19:48AM COME ON UP TO THE PODIUM, PLEASE.
10:19:50AM I HAVE TWO SETS OF DIRECTIONS, AND I'M WONDERING WHICH ONE
10:19:56AM YOU WOULD PREFER.
10:20:00AM WE HAVE FOR MR. SHELBY A LIST OF 21 ITEMS THAT WERE E-MAILED
10:20:07AM TO US TO BE DISCUSSED.
10:20:16AM WE ALSO HAVE THE PURPOSE AND THE PROPOSED PROCESS OF THE

10:20:18AM CHARTER DISCUSSION.
10:20:19AM AND THE NUMBER ONE THING UP THERE SAYS, EACH CITY COUNCIL
10:20:23AM MEMBER WILL REVIEW ONE BY ONE THEIR LIST OF SUGGESTED
10:20:29AM CHARTER AMENDMENTS.
10:20:32AM HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROCEED AS THE FACILITATOR THAT IS
10:20:36AM BEING PAID WITH TAX DOLLARS?
10:20:39AM >> GOOD MORNING.
10:20:39AM BEFORE I ADDRESS THAT, IF I MAY, LET ME JUST EXPLAIN MY ROLE
10:20:44AM AND CERTAINLY GOOD MORNING TO THE COMMISSIONERS, CHAIR, AND
10:20:47AM TO COUNCIL ATTORNEY SHELBY AND MEMBERS OF THE
10:20:52AM ADMINISTRATION.
10:20:53AM MY ROLE AS THE FACILITATOR IS NEUTRAL.
10:20:56AM I AM NEUTRAL TO CONTENT.
10:20:59AM I DID HELP IN DESIGN THE PROCESS AND MAY MAKE PROCEDURAL
10:21:04AM SUGGESTIONS.
10:21:04AM THE CONTENT COMES FROM YOU AND, OF COURSE, FROM THE PUBLIC.
10:21:09AM IF WE COULD JUST FOR A MOMENT, WE'VE GOT A SLIDE.
10:21:13AM THERE ARE SIMPLY TWO OUTCOMES FOR TODAY.
10:21:16AM AS YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S TO EXPLORE, DISCUSS, AND DEVELOP
10:21:20AM CHARTER TOPICS AND THEN DETERMINE NEXT STEPS.
10:21:24AM ALONG WITH THOSE NEXT STEPS, OF COURSE, WILL BE A TIMELINE.
10:21:26AM AND WE DO HAVE A MEMO THAT MENTIONS THE TIMELINE TO GET IT
10:21:31AM ON THE BALLOT.
10:21:32AM AS CHAIRMAN CITRO MENTIONED, WE'VE GOT TWO WAYS TO PROCEED.
10:21:37AM EITHER THE ORDER AS THEY ARE IN THE CHARTER SECTIONS OR

10:21:41AM THOSE COMMISSIONERS WHO WISH IN TURN TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS.
10:21:49AM MY UNDERSTANDING ALSO IS THAT INSTEAD OF A SUPERMAJORITY,
10:21:52AM THAT WE HAVE A VOTE OF FOUR IN ORDER TO INDICATE THAT THAT
10:21:58AM PARTICULAR ISSUE WILL GO FORWARD.
10:21:59AM AM I CORRECT?
10:22:00AM I SEE HEADS NODDING.
10:22:02AM THANK YOU.
10:22:03AM FOR THE PURPOSES OF KEEPING THIS VERY VISUAL, WE HAVE A
10:22:10AM REAL-TIME NOTE-TAKER THAT WILL BE PUTTING INFORMATION UP ON
10:22:13AM THE SCREEN.
10:22:16AM THAT WILL BE WORDSMITHED LATER BECAUSE YOU KNOW WORDSMITHING
10:22:20AM CAN BE A VERY DELICATE PROCESS, AND WORDSMITHING WILL COME
10:22:25AM OUT OF MR. SHELBY'S OFFICE AND WILL FIT THE TIMETABLE THAT
10:22:29AM HAS BEEN LAID OUT.
10:22:32AM BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION.
10:22:34AM LET ME PUT IT TO THE GROUP HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED.
10:22:40AM HOW MANY OF YOU BY SHOW OF A VOTE WOULD LIKE TO GO IN ORDER
10:22:43AM AS IT IS LAID OUT IN THE CHARTER?
10:22:46AM I KNOW MOST OF US HAVE A PRINT COPY.
10:22:51AM AM I CORRECT?
10:22:52AM MINE HAPPENS TO BE SUPPLEMENT 135.
10:22:54AM YOU MAY HAVE SUPPLEMENT 120.
10:22:57AM NEVERTHELESS, WE CAN GO BY SECTIONS.
10:22:59AM HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD PREFER TO GO IN THAT MANNER SIMPLY IN
10:23:04AM ORDER AND THEN WHOEVER HAS THAT ISSUE WOULD SIMPLY RAISE HIS

10:23:09AM OR HER HAND?
10:23:12AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: ORDERLY FASHION.
10:23:14AM YES, MA'AM.
10:23:15AM >> LET ME SEE A SHOW OF HANDS.
10:23:17AM I CAN'T TELL WHAT'S IN YOUR HEAD.
10:23:20AM YES, MR. VIERA.
10:23:23AM >>LUIS VIERA: YES, MA'AM, THANK YOU.
10:23:25AM CAN YOU LIST THE SECOND OPTION JUST SO WE'RE ALL -- COULD
10:23:28AM YOU RESTATE THE TWO OPTIONS?
10:23:32AM >> YES, THE TWO OPTIONS.
10:23:33AM ONE OPTION IS THAT WHOMEVER WISHES TO SPEAK RAISES HIS OR
10:23:37AM HER HAND AND SAID, HERE'S MY ISSUE, AND WE PROCEED IN THAT
10:23:42AM FASHION.
10:23:43AM THE SECOND AND PERHAPS I HAVE SAID THESE IN THE OPPOSITE
10:23:48AM MANNER, BUT NEVERTHELESS, THE SECOND ONE IS SIMPLY TO GO IN
10:23:51AM ORDER OF HOW THE CHARTER IS LAID OUT.
10:23:53AM IF THAT'S YOUR ISSUE, THAT'S WHEN YOU WOULD SPEAK.
10:23:58AM EITHER WAY YOU'LL GET A CHANCE TO SPEAK.
10:24:01AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: BOTH SET --
10:24:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THEY DO.
10:24:08AM IN MY OPINION, IF WE GO BY THE LIST WE HAVE HERE, WE WON'T
10:24:12AM BE GOING ROUND-ROBIN.
10:24:14AM WE WILL TALK ABOUT EACH DISCUSSION IN AN ORDERLY FASHION.
10:24:18AM HOWEVER, IT IS THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL.
10:24:22AM >> SO, MAY I SEE THE SHOW OF HANDS?

10:24:25AM HOW MANY WISH TO GO IN THE ORDER AS IT'S LAID OUT?
10:24:30AM ALL RIGHT.
10:24:31AM WE HAVE ENOUGH VOTES FOR THAT.
10:24:32AM DUE TO THE TIME, IT'S 10:30.
10:24:35AM I'LL CALL FOR A STRETCH BREAK.
10:24:37AM WE'LL COME BACK IN TEN MINUTES AND PROCEED -- YES, MR.
10:24:39AM SHELBY.
10:24:40AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WHEN YOU SAY THE LIST, WHAT LIST ARE YOU
10:24:43AM REFERRING TO?
10:24:44AM IN THE CHARTER?
10:24:46AM >> THE CHARTER.
10:24:48AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: YOU ARE HOLDING UP TWO DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS.
10:24:50AM THAT'S WHY I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON IT.
10:24:51AM MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I JUST ADDRESS VERY BRIEFLY THE 21 ITEMS?
10:24:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THE 21 ITEMS.
10:24:58AM THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO.
10:25:00AM 21 ITEMS YOU SENT TO US.
10:25:02AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT IS NOT AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST, AS A MATTER
10:25:04AM OF FACT.
10:25:04AM THAT LIST, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HADN'T EVEN INTENDED TO
10:25:08AM SPEAK TO IT UNLESS IT WAS INTEREST OF COUNCIL.
10:25:11AM QUITE FRANKLY, THIS WAS A LIST COMPILED FROM DISCUSSIONS OF
10:25:15AM CHARTER-RELATED ISSUES OVER THE COURSE OF THE TERM OF THIS
10:25:19AM COUNCIL.
10:25:20AM AND MY BASIS WAS, AT THE DIRECTION OF THE CHAIR AT THE TIME,

10:25:24AM WHEREAS CONCERNS WERE RAISED WITH THE LANGUAGE OF THE
10:25:26AM CHARTER OR ISSUE TAKEN WITH INTERPRETATIONS OF THE LANGUAGE
10:25:30AM WITHIN THE CHARTER.
10:25:30AM NOW, COUNCIL, I DO NOT INTEND TO ADVOCATE FOR ANY OF THESE.
10:25:36AM THEY ARE NOT MINE.
10:25:38AM THEY WERE RAISED BY COUNCIL OVER TIME, A BASIS OF CERTAIN
10:25:44AM ISSUES THAT ARE OVERARCHING.
10:25:45AM ONE OF THEM BEING PRIMARILY THE SEPARATION OF POWERS.
10:25:49AM IT'S NOT MY INTENTION TO ADVOCATE FOR THIS LIST, AND I WILL
10:25:53AM ASSURE YOU THAT THIS LIST IS NOT NECESSARILY REFLECTIVE OF
10:25:58AM WHAT THIS PARTICULAR COUNCIL WANTS TO DISCUSS.
10:26:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: PLEASE, ONE SECOND.
10:26:08AM >> IS SHE LEADING OR IS THE CHAIR LEADING?
10:26:11AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: ACTUALLY, THE FACILITATOR.
10:26:14AM COUNCILMAN CARLSON, GIVE ME ONE SECOND.
10:26:16AM PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
10:26:17AM IT TOOK THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION 13 MONTHS TO GO
10:26:25AM THROUGH THE CHARTER.
10:26:29AM I DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT IN ONE DAY HERE.
10:26:35AM THAT IS WHY WHEN MR. SHELBY SENT ME THIS LIST OF DISCUSSIONS
10:26:44AM THAT WERE GOING ON DURING THE COURSE, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT
10:26:48AM THE DIRECTION WE WERE GOING TO BE GOING.
10:26:51AM HOWEVER, SINCE I HAVE SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT ARE SHAKING
10:26:54AM THEIR HEADS, LET'S TRY AND ACCOMPLISH GETTING 13 MONTHS'
10:26:58AM WORTH OF WORK INTO ONE DAY.

10:27:00AM COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:27:02AM >> MAY I CLARIFY MY COMMENTS?
10:27:03AM WHEN I SAID GO THROUGH THE CHARTER SIMPLY MEANT GOING IN
10:27:07AM ORDER WITHOUT GOING THROUGH EACH SECTION.
10:27:10AM SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE WOULD START WITH ARTICLE I, SECTION 101,
10:27:15AM 102, 103, 104, WHICH OF THOSE WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO SPEAK
10:27:19AM ON?
10:27:20AM THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.
10:27:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:27:22AM >> NOT EACH ONE.
10:27:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:27:26AM >>BILL CARLSON: ONE OF THE TWEETS THE MAYOR SENT LAST NIGHT
10:27:31AM WAS COMPLAINING THAT MR. SHELBY'S MEMO WENT OUT AT 1 A.M.
10:27:35AM YESTERDAY.
10:27:35AM OUR RULES THAT WE AGREED TO A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO ALWAYS
10:27:39AM SAID THAT EACH CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WOULD PRESENT THEIR OWN.
10:27:41AM WE DON'T HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO LET THE MAYOR KNOW IN ADVANCE
10:27:44AM WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT BECAUSE THAT IS THE PROCESS WE
10:27:46AM AGREED TO.
10:27:46AM HOWEVER, I WANT TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW AND JUST FOR
10:27:49AM DISCLOSURE TO EVERYBODY, EVEN IF WE APPROVE SOMETHING TODAY,
10:27:53AM THE MAYOR STILL CAN VETO IT.
10:27:54AM IF THE MAYOR VETOES IT, THEN IT COMES BACK TO US AND WE HAVE
10:27:58AM TO GET FIVE VOTES TO STILL MOVE IT FORWARD.
10:28:01AM IF WE HAVE, WE ORIGINALLY -- I SUGGESTED WE HAVE FIVE VOTES

10:28:06AM FOR SOMETHING OR WE DON'T PUSH IT FORWARD.
10:28:08AM BUT WE SAID FOUR TODAY.
10:28:09AM SOMETHING GETS FOUR VOTES, GOES TO THE MAYOR, SHE VETOES AND
10:28:14AM COMES BACK TO US.
10:28:15AM EVEN IF WE APPROVE IT AND THE MAYOR DOESN'T OBJECT, THEN IT
10:28:18AM HAS TO GO FOR TWO READINGS, PUBLIC READINGS.
10:28:22AM FOR ANYBODY WHO THINKS WE'RE GOING TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE
10:28:25AM BALLOT TODAY, WE CANNOT.
10:28:26AM FOR ANYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED THAT SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE
10:28:29AM SQUEEZED THROUGH WITHOUT PUBLIC OVERSIGHT, WE'VE GOT AT
10:28:32AM LEAST THREE POINTS OF PUBLIC OVERSIGHT BEYOND THIS TODAY.
10:28:35AM THANK YOU.
10:28:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:28:36AM YOU'RE ASKING FOR A TEN-MINUTE RECESS?
10:28:40AM >> YES, SIR.
10:28:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
10:28:41AM LET'S TAKE A TEN-MINUTE RECESS.
10:28:44AM [ SOUNDING GAVEL ]
10:28:44AM [RECESS]
10:28:44AM [ SOUNDING GAVEL ]
10:42:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: CITY COUNCIL IS BACK IN SESSION.
10:42:05AM ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
10:42:10AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.
10:42:11AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.
10:42:12AM >>LYNN HURTAK: HERE.

10:42:14AM >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.
10:42:15AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: HERE.
10:42:16AM >>LUIS VIERA: HERE.
10:42:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.
10:42:18AM COUNCIL MEMBERS, WITHOUT OBJECTION, WE WILL BREAK FOR LUNCH
10:42:24AM AT 12, OR AS CLOSE TO THEREAFTER.
10:42:28AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:42:30AM MS. SCHROEDER.
10:42:32AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WELCOME BACK.
10:42:33AM JUST TO REITERATE THEN WITH OUR PROCESS, WHAT WE HAVE FOUND
10:42:38AM IS IT TENDS TO HELP IF WE HAVE A FEW PROTOCOLS THAT WE CAN
10:42:43AM WORK WITH.
10:42:44AM AND WE HAVE THOSE UP ON THE SCREEN AS WELL AS OVER HERE ON
10:42:47AM THE CHART.
10:42:49AM AND I WILL JUST GO THROUGH THOSE VERY, VERY QUICKLY.
10:42:51AM OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GOOD AT SHARING THE FLOOR.
10:42:54AM ALLOW EACH PERSON TO FINISH COMMENTS SO THAT WE'RE NOT
10:42:57AM TALKING OVER ONE ANOTHER.
10:43:00AM STRIVE TOWARD ECONOMY OF WORDS.
10:43:03AM IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, BE SUCCINCT.
10:43:05AM I WILL ASK YOU WHEN IT'S TIME TO GIVE YOUR COMMENTS, TO GIVE
10:43:09AM SOMETHING IN THE FORM OF A HEADLINE TO BASICALLY SAY HERE'S
10:43:12AM MY TOPIC AND THEN FILL IN AND HERE'S MY RATIONALE FOR WHY I
10:43:16AM WOULD LIKE THAT CHANGE.
10:43:17AM AND THEN WE WILL HAVE A DISCUSSION.

10:43:19AM WE'LL ASK THAT YOU JUST SPEAK FROM YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE AND
10:43:26AM OWN INFORMATION.
10:43:27AM IN OTHER WORDS, WITHHOLDING PERSONALIZING COMMENTS THAT FROM
10:43:31AM YOUR EXPERIENCE THIS IS HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT YOUR
10:43:36AM INFORMATION AND, OF COURSE, WORKING TOWARD DESIRED OUTCOMES
10:43:39AM WHICH IS TO GET THROUGH AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, AS
10:43:43AM CHAIRMAN CITRO SAID, RATHER THAN 13, WE'LL DO THIS IN A FEW
10:43:50AM HOURS.
10:43:51AM BREAKING AT LUNCH, AT NOON, IS WHAT WE'RE WORKING TOWARD.
10:43:54AM JUST A REMINDER ALSO ON THE TIMELINE.
10:43:56AM THERE IS A MEMO THAT STATES THE FIRST READING IS DECEMBER 1,
10:44:01AM POSSIBLY THE SECOND READING DECEMBER 15 OR JANUARY 5th.
10:44:05AM IT GOES TO THE PRINTER JANUARY THE 20th TO BE ON THE
10:44:09AM BALLOT MARCH THE 7th.
10:44:11AM AND WORDSMITHING WILL TAKE PLACE THROUGH MR. SHELBY'S
10:44:17AM OFFICE.
10:44:18AM WE HAVE REAL-TIME NOTE-TAKING, AND SHE WILL CHANGE THAT AS
10:44:22AM NEEDED AS WE GO THROUGH IT.
10:44:24AM SO IT WILL APPEAR AND THEN YOU WILL SEE CHANGES BASED ON
10:44:28AM OTHER KINDS OF COMMENTS.
10:44:32AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:44:33AM I'M SORRY, MS. SCHROEDER.
10:44:36AM YOU SAID WORDSMITHING WOULD COME THROUGH MY OFFICE?
10:44:39AM ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE BALLOT LANGUAGE WOULD BE PREPARED
10:44:42AM THROUGH --

10:44:42AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WORDSMITHING BEFORE YOU BRING IT BACK TO
10:44:45AM THE FIRST READING, THERE HAS TO BE POSSIBLY WORDSMITHING.
10:44:48AM WE'RE NOT ASSUMING THAT WE'LL GET THE FINAL LANGUAGE TODAY.
10:44:52AM WE WILL GET AS CLOSE AS WE CAN.
10:44:54AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: YOU AND I HAD NOT DISCUSSED THAT IN TERMS
10:44:57AM OF THAT.
10:45:00AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THERE WILL BE WORDSMITHING.
10:45:01AM LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
10:45:03AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THERE HAS TO BE WORDSMITHING, BUT I
10:45:06AM ASSUMED, AT LEAST SPEAKING WITH MS. ZELMAN THAT THAT WOULD
10:45:09AM BE THROUGH THE STAFF OF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
10:45:11AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: COUNCILMAN CARLSON, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.
10:45:14AM >>BILL CARLSON: IN SOME OF THE ORIGINAL MOTIONS WE MADE TO
10:45:17AM THIS, WE SAID WE WOULD LIKE THE CITY ATTORNEY HIRE OUTSIDE
10:45:21AM COUNSEL BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY IS BACKED UP.
10:45:23AM THERE'S NO WAY WE'LL HIT THE DEADLINE IF THEY DO IT
10:45:25AM THEMSELVES.
10:45:26AM ULTIMATELY THEY HAVE TO REVIEW IT BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO
10:45:28AM HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL WITH INPUT FROM OUR ATTORNEY.
10:45:31AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THAT SOUNDS FINE.
10:45:33AM AS LONG AS WE RECOGNIZE THAT WORDSMITHING WILL BE DONE AND
10:45:35AM THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SPEND THE TIME TO NECESSARILY LOOK
10:45:38AM AT EVERY GRAMMATICAL ISSUE, EVERY COMMA, BUT TO GET THE MAIN
10:45:43AM ESSENCE OF WHAT YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO PUT ACROSS.
10:45:46AM >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK THE CITY ATTORNEY OFFERED US TO PICK

10:45:49AM THE ATTORNEY WE WANT FROM THE LIST OF PREAPPROVED ATTORNEYS.
10:45:53AM IF WE'RE NOT PREPARED TO DO THAT TODAY, MAYBE WE COULD DO
10:45:55AM THAT ON THURSDAY.
10:45:57AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
10:45:57AM UNDERSTANDABLE.
10:45:58AM SO IF WE COULD, AS WE MENTIONED, GO IN ORDER SIMPLY AS THE
10:46:03AM CHARTER IS LAID OUT AND WHOEVER WISHES TO SPEAK ON ANYTHING
10:46:07AM FROM ARTICLE I INCORPORATION AND FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
10:46:11AM WE HAVE FOUR SECTIONS.
10:46:13AM WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO ONE OF THOSE?
10:46:15AM RAISE YOUR HAND AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOUR TOPIC IS AND WE
10:46:19AM WILL PROCEED.
10:46:20AM WE HAVE PURPOSE -- I'M LOOKING AT SUPPLEMENT NUMBER 135.
10:46:32AM I THINK YOU MAY HAVE SUPPLEMENT 120.
10:46:35AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF YOU CAN GO BY SECTIONS, THAT WOULD MAKE
10:46:38AM IT CLEAR.
10:46:39AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SECTION 1 IS PURPOSE.
10:46:41AM TWO IS BODY CORPORATE.
10:46:43AM THREE IS POWERS.
10:46:44AM FOUR IS SEPARATION OF POWERS.
10:46:48AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I MAY ASK, MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST SO THAT
10:46:50AM I'M CLEAR, IT'S COUNCIL'S DESIRE TO REVIEW THE ENTIRE
10:46:54AM CHARTER DURING THIS WORKSHOP?
10:46:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: NO.
10:46:59AM >>LYNN HURTAK: WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS.

10:47:01AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IS IT GOING TO BE --
10:47:02AM >>LYNN HURTAK: ISN'T SHE LEADING THIS MEETING?
10:47:04AM I'M CONFUSED.
10:47:06AM WHO IS ALLOWING ME TO TALK HERE?
10:47:08AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT'S THE QUESTION.
10:47:10AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I THOUGHT SHE WAS TAKING OVER.
10:47:12AM ARE YOU TAKING OVER?
10:47:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES, SHE IS.
10:47:14AM >>LYNN HURTAK: SHE CAN RECOGNIZE ME.
10:47:15AM NO OFFENSE.
10:47:16AM I'M FRUSTRATED BECAUSE WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS.
10:47:19AM WE'RE JUST GOING DOWN THE LINE.
10:47:20AM SECTION ONE, ANYBODY HAVE SOMETHING ON ONE, TWO, THREE OR
10:47:23AM FOUR?
10:47:24AM NO.
10:47:24AM OKAY.
10:47:25AM LET'S MOVE ON.
10:47:26AM SORRY.
10:47:26AM I DON'T MEAN TO BE SNIPPY.
10:47:28AM WE HAVE A LOT TO COVER AND WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS.
10:47:30AM JUST BEFORE WE WENT TO BREAK.
10:47:33AM THANK YOU.
10:47:35AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO NOTHING IN SECTION ONE.
10:47:38AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, 1.04.
10:47:40AM AM I RECOGNIZED, MA'AM?

10:47:44AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
10:47:46AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: SECTION 104, YOU TALK ABOUT SEPARATION OF
10:47:48AM POWERS.
10:47:49AM MR. SHELBY HAS LAID OUT THE QUESTION AND THE EXAMPLE.
10:47:52AM THE QUESTION SO THE PUBLIC CAN KNOW, QUESTION OF HOW TO
10:47:55AM RESOLVE DISPUTE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL, DISPUTE
10:47:58AM INTERPRETATION OF LANGUAGE IN SECTION 501, 5.01A, THE CITY
10:48:01AM ATTORNEY SHALL BE THE FINAL LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE
10:48:05AM CITY.
10:48:06AM THE EXAMPLE OF -- LANGUAGE IN THE EVENT OF DISPUTE BETWEEN
10:48:11AM THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL WHICH CANNOT BE RECONCILED, THE
10:48:14AM CITY SHALL UTILIZE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IN COURT OF COMPETENT
10:48:19AM JURISDICTION.
10:48:19AM WE'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN SEVERAL TIMES.
10:48:22AM I THINK WHEN THERE IS A CONFLICT, SOMETIMES I DON'T WANT TO
10:48:25AM SAY THAT ALL INFORMATION HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THIS COUNCIL, BUT
10:48:30AM AT TIMES WE HAVE TO FISH OURSELVES.
10:48:33AM I THINK THE BATTLE SOMETIMES OF FINDING FACT VERSUS FICTION
10:48:36AM DOESN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.
10:48:38AM I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE LOOK AT MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE
10:48:40AM THAT.
10:48:41AM SO YOU HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
10:48:43AM BUT IF THERE IS A CONFLICT WITH THE INTERPRETATION OF THE
10:48:47AM LEGAL DEPARTMENT, WITH CITY COUNCIL, AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE,
10:48:50AM I BELIEVE THAT ANOTHER JURISDICTION SHOULD LOOK AT THAT TO

10:48:53AM GIVE US A COMPETENT DECISION ON WHAT THE INTERPRETATION
10:48:56AM SHOULD BE.
10:48:56AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. GUDES.
10:48:58AM SO IN REFERRING TO THE DOCUMENT THAT MR. SHELBY HAD PUT
10:49:01AM TOGETHER, YOU ARE READING THE CURATIVE LANGUAGE.
10:49:03AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, MA'AM.
10:49:04AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S YOUR RATIONALE.
10:49:07AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, MA'AM.
10:49:09AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: OTHER DISCUSSION?
10:49:11AM MS. HURTAK.
10:49:12AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I AGREE.
10:49:14AM I THINK THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
10:49:15AM MY ONLY DISAGREEMENT IS I DO NOT -- I BELIEVE COUNCIL MEMBER
10:49:21AM -- I DON'T REMEMBER WHO SPOKE ABOUT IT THIS MORNING, ABOUT
10:49:23AM SENDING TO THE AG.
10:49:25AM I DISAGREE.
10:49:25AM I THINK IT SHOULD BE AN OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL THAT
10:49:28AM WOULD ARBITRATE A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
10:49:33AM SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, WHICH I BELIEVE IS THIS
10:49:37AM LANGUAGE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE THAT I WOULD PREFER
10:49:40AM THAT AND NOT THE AG'S OFFICE.
10:49:45AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON.
10:49:46AM >>BILL CARLSON: SHOULD WE RAISE OUR HAND AND YOU CALL ON US?
10:49:52AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
10:49:52AM >>BILL CARLSON: I WAS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE

10:49:54AM FOR SECTION 6 AS A NEW SECTION, 6.09, BUT IT'S RELEVANT OR
10:49:59AM AN ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT MR. SHELBY PUT DOWN.
10:50:03AM SHOULD I READ THIS ONE NOW OR SHOULD WE HOLD THE ONE THAT
10:50:08AM WAS JUST PROPOSED AND DISCUSS THEM BOTH UNDER 6.
10:50:12AM I'LL READ MINE.
10:50:13AM I SUGGEST NEW SECTION 6.0 -- THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT WHEN THE
10:50:19AM CITY ATTORNEY GIVES AN EDICT, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE A SUPREME
10:50:23AM COURT RULING, IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF
10:50:27AM THE CITY, WHICH THEY ARE NOT.
10:50:28AM AND IF WE DISAGREE WITH IT, FOR EXAMPLE, ONLY THE MAYOR HAS
10:50:33AM THE RIGHT TO NAME BUILDINGS.
10:50:34AM IT'S RIDICULOUS.
10:50:35AM IT'S NOT IN ANY WAY DESCRIBED IN THE CHARTER.
10:50:37AM HOW DO WE RESOLVE THAT?
10:50:39AM THE ONLY WAY TO RESOLVE IS IF WE COLLECTIVELY FILE A LAWSUIT
10:50:42AM OR INDIVIDUALLY FILE A LAWSUIT.
10:50:44AM I WANT TO AVOID LAWSUITS.
10:50:45AM THE WAY I DO IT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS BY SETTING UP AN
10:50:48AM ARBITRATION PANEL.
10:50:50AM IF WE GO BEFORE A JUDGE, I PRESUME, UNLESS LEGAL HAS A
10:50:54AM DIFFERENT OPINION, WE HAVE TO FILE A LAWSUIT TO GO BEFORE A
10:50:56AM JUDGE.
10:50:57AM HERE'S WHAT I RECOMMEND.
10:50:58AM WE OBVIOUSLY NEED A CONFLICT RESOLUTION.
10:50:59AM EVERYBODY WHO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT WE DO WITH THE

10:51:02AM CHARTER.
10:51:02AM NUMBER ONE, WE NEED A CONFLICT RESOLUTION PROCESS BECAUSE
10:51:05AM OTHERWISE WE'LL HAVE LAWSUITS.
10:51:06AM WE HAVE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN ATTACKED AND NOT
10:51:09AM PROTECTED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN
10:51:12AM BY CHARTER.
10:51:13AM THE CHARTER CLEARLY SAYS IN SECTION A UNDER SECTION 2,
10:51:16AM DEFEND THE RIGHTS AND INTEREST OF THE CITY OR ANY OFFICER OF
10:51:18AM THE CITY IN ANY SUIT OR PROSECUTION FOR ANY ACT IN THE
10:51:23AM DISCHARGE OF OFFICIAL DUTIES.
10:51:24AM THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS NOT DONE THAT.
10:51:26AM WHAT IS OUR OPTION?
10:51:27AM INDIVIDUALLY WE CAN SUE AS A COLLECTIVE BODY WE CAN SUE.
10:51:31AM WHAT I SUGGEST SO THAT WE DON'T ALLOW THE CITY ATTORNEY TO
10:51:34AM BECOME THE JUDICIAL BRANCH AND CHANGE THE CHARTER WITHOUT A
10:51:37AM VOTE OF THE PUBLIC, WE SHOULD HAVE A CONFLICT RESOLUTION
10:51:40AM CLAUSE.
10:51:40AM I'M SUGGESTING 6.09.
10:51:43AM HERE IS THE LANGUAGE -- SORRY.
10:51:46AM HERE IS THE LANGUAGE I PROPOSE.
10:51:48AM SHOULD A CONFLICT ARISE BETWEEN CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR
10:51:54AM OR BETWEEN EITHER PARTY AND THE CITY ATTORNEY, SUCH CONFLICT
10:51:58AM SHOULD BE RESOLVED IN A QUICK, OBJECTIVE, AND COLLEGIAL
10:52:01AM MANNER SO AS TO BEST REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF THE CITY --
10:52:05AM OF THE RESIDENTS OF TAMPA.

10:52:06AM IN THE EVENT OF A CONFLICT, THE TWO PARTIES, UNDER
10:52:08AM COORDINATION BY THE CITY ATTORNEY, WILL APPOINT AN
10:52:10AM ARBITRATION PANEL CONSISTING OF THREE ARBITRATORS WHO WILL
10:52:13AM BE JOINTLY SELECTED BY THE TWO PARTIES, EITHER THROUGH THEIR
10:52:17AM ATTORNEYS OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL APPOINTED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY,
10:52:19AM THE TWO PARTIES WILL REPRESENT THEIR CASE TO THE ARBITRATION
10:52:22AM PANEL.
10:52:23AM THE ARBITRATION PANEL WILL GIVE THEIR JUDGMENT ON THE MATTER
10:52:27AM AND BOTH PARTIES BOUND BY THE RULING.
10:52:29AM I THINK THE CHOICES WE GO BEFORE A JUDGE OR GO BEFORE THE
10:52:32AM ARBITRATION PANEL OR CALL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, BUT ALL OF
10:52:35AM THOSE -- THE JUDGE AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ESCALATE SOME
10:52:39AM THINGS, THE DECISION ABOUT WHO CAN NAME BUILDINGS, IT'S
10:52:42AM RIDICULOUS THAT FORMER CITY ATTORNEY MADE THAT AN EDICT.
10:52:45AM AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN NAVIGATE THIS.
10:52:50AM IT'S EASIER -- IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, BOTH SIDES PICK THREE
10:52:54AM ARBITRATORS.
10:52:54AM THAT WAY IT'S CLEAR THAT THEY ARE OBJECTIVE.
10:52:57AM WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS CITY ATTORNEY WILL PICK AN
10:52:59AM OUTSIDE ATTORNEY.
10:53:01AM BUT THAT ATTORNEY REPORTS TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, THE CITY
10:53:01AM ATTORNEY REPORTS TO THE MAYOR, AND THERE IS BIAS IN THAT
10:53:04AM PROCESS.
10:53:04AM THE PUBLIC WANTS IT TO BE OBJECTIVE.
10:53:05AM SO WE EITHER NEED A PROCESS TO GO BEFORE A JUDGE OR WE NEED

10:53:08AM A PROCESS TO GO BEFORE AN ARBITRATION PANEL.
10:53:10AM THANK YOU.
10:53:13AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO IN FOLLOWING UP WITH MR. GUDES'
10:53:17AM COMMENTS, YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD A PIECE TO THAT CURATIVE
10:53:22AM LANGUAGE.
10:53:22AM >>BILL CARLSON: WHETHER IN SECTION ONE OR SECTION SIX, WE
10:53:26AM NEED TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER.
10:53:29AM WE CANNOT -- IF WE DO ANYTHING TODAY, WE NEED A CONFLICT
10:53:33AM RESOLUTION POLICY BECAUSE WE'RE HEAD TOWARD MULTIPLE
10:53:36AM LAWSUITS RIGHT NOW.
10:53:37AM THE ONLY WAY TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC, WHEN THE -- STAFF LAST
10:53:41AM WEEK WOULD NOT GIVE US THE INFORMATION WE ASKED ABOUT THE
10:53:43AM INCENDIARY PLANT.
10:53:46AM THEY WON'T GIVE US ACCURATE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PURE
10:53:47AM PROJECT, TOILET TO TAP.
10:53:48AM THEY WON'T GIVE US THE INFORMATION WE NEED.
10:53:49AM THE ONLY OPTION WE HAVE AND THEN WHEN THE CITY ATTORNEY IS
10:53:53AM DEFENDING THEM AND NOT DEFENDING CITY COUNCIL, THE ONLY
10:53:56AM CHOICE WE HAVE IS TO SUE.
10:53:57AM THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE TAXPAYERS.
10:53:59AM WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SUE TO GET TRANSPARENCY AND
10:54:02AM ACCOUNTABILITY.
10:54:02AM SO THE CHOICE IS WE EITHER GO TO A JUDGE OR WE GO TO AN
10:54:05AM ARBITRATION PANEL.
10:54:06AM I DON'T KNOW OF ANOTHER CHOICE.

10:54:06AM BUT THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS I'D LIKE TO PUT ON THE TABLE AS
10:54:09AM OPTIONS.
10:54:13AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: OTHER DISCUSSION?
10:54:13AM MR. VIERA.
10:54:14AM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
10:54:16AM MY THOUGHTS ON A LOT OF ISSUES THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY,
10:54:20AM I GUESS ON PROCEDURE, NOT NECESSARILY ON SUBSTANCE, IS THAT
10:54:23AM WE'RE DEALING WITH HEFTY ISSUES CHANGING THE CITY CHARTER.
10:54:28AM AGAIN, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO CHANGING THE CITY'S CHARTER LIKE
10:54:32AM I'VE SAID ON ISSUES WITH DUE CONSIDERATION, ET CETERA,
10:54:35AM ET CETERA.
10:54:36AM WE HAD A MEETING ABOUT A MONTH AGO THAT WE CANCELED AT 11:00
10:54:39AM SAYING WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.
10:54:41AM MOVED IT TO TODAY.
10:54:42AM NOW WE'RE DEALING WITH A LOT OF ISSUES UPON FIRST NORMAL
10:54:46AM IMPRESSION, RIGHT?
10:54:47AM THAT MAY BE RIGHT, MAY BE WRONG, MAY BE MISGUIDED.
10:54:51AM MAY BE CORRECT.
10:54:52AM MAY BE REACTIVE, MAY NOT BE.
10:54:55AM JUST THE CONSIDERATION PROCEDURALLY THAT WE'RE GETTING JUST
10:54:58AM BOTHERS ME.
10:54:58AM THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CRB CHANGES, BY THE WAY, WHICH
10:55:02AM HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS.
10:55:03AM PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS ISSUE.
10:55:05AM WE CAN DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES TODAY AND GIVE OUR THOUGHTS,

10:55:07AM ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
10:55:08AM BUT ON SOME OF THESE LARGER PROCEDURAL ISSUES, I THINK THIS,
10:55:11AM I THINK THAT, WE'RE TRYING TO CRAM POTENTIALLY A SIZE 46
10:55:16AM WAIST INTO SIZE 32 PANTS RIGHT NOW WITH THESE ISSUES.
10:55:19AM THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME.
10:55:21AM THE PROCEDURAL ISSUE, THE TIME GIVEN.
10:55:26AM SHOULD BE MORE THOUGHTFUL AND MORE HEFTY TO SUCH ISSUES.
10:55:29AM AGAIN, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CRB.
10:55:32AM THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF TODAY.
10:55:33AM PEOPLE HERE FOR THAT, ET CETERA.
10:55:35AM JUST A CONCERN THAT I HAVE.
10:55:36AM NOT SAYING I'LL VOTE NO BASED UPON THAT, BUT JUST SOMETHING
10:55:40AM THAT WEIGHS UPON ME AND I THINK SHOULD WEIGH UPON REASONABLE
10:55:42AM FOLKS.
10:55:43AM MY OPINION.
10:55:43AM THANK YOU, MA'AM.
10:55:44AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, UNDERSTANDABLE, THAT WHEN THERE IS A
10:55:47AM TIME CONSTRAINT, MEANING WE HAVE A DAY, WE HAVE SUPPOSEDLY
10:55:52AM UNTIL THIS AFTERNOON AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH -- YOU
10:55:54AM WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
10:55:57AM IT'S NOT THE FINAL LANGUAGE AS WE HAVE MENTIONED EARLIER.
10:56:01AM SO IF YOU WERE TO ADD ANYTHING TO THE CURATIVE LANGUAGE
10:56:04AM THAT'S BEEN SUGGESTED BY MR. GUDES FOR THIS, WHAT WOULD YOU
10:56:09AM ADD?
10:56:09AM WOULD YOU ADD SOMETHING TO THAT?

10:56:12AM >>LUIS VIERA: I'M LOOKING AT THIS, ET CETERA.
10:56:14AM I'M NOT READY FOR A PUBLIC COMMENT ON IT YET ON THIS
10:56:17AM PARTICULAR PROPOSAL.
10:56:18AM THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE.
10:56:20AM IT'S FIRST IMPRESSION.
10:56:21AM GOT TO THINK ABOUT IT, ET CETERA.
10:56:23AM TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE PROFESSIONALS IN THE AREA, ET CETERA.
10:56:25AM THAT'S MY WHOLE OBJECTION.
10:56:27AM IT'S NOT ANYTHING DEALING WITH YOU.
10:56:29AM AGAIN, WE HAD THIS ISSUE SCHEDULED A MONTH AGO AND WE LEFT
10:56:32AM AT 11:00.
10:56:33AM WE COULD HAVE USED THAT TIME TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES, AND
10:56:36AM NOW WE'RE HAVING MANY OF THEM UPON FIRST IMPRESSION.
10:56:40AM JUST SOMETHING THAT BOTHERS ME.
10:56:42AM AGAIN, PROCEDURE, NOT SUBSTANCE, IN MY OPINION, EXCLUDING
10:56:45AM THE CRB ISSUES.
10:56:46AM THANK YOU.
10:56:47AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
10:56:47AM AS YOUR NEUTRAL FACILITATOR, MY COMMENT IS NOT ON THE
10:56:52AM CONTENT BUT ON YOUR PROCESS.
10:56:54AM THOUGH FROM WHAT I'M PICKING UP, THIS IS CERTAINLY A LARGE
10:57:00AM ISSUE.
10:57:00AM MR. GUDES, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT?
10:57:04AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: JUST PRETTY SIMPLE.
10:57:06AM BEEN HERE ALMOST FOUR YEARS.

10:57:09AM WE'VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS.
10:57:11AM I DON'T SEE THE BIG ARGUMENT OR HAVE OUTSIDE PEOPLE THAT
10:57:15AM LOOK AT THIS ANATOMY.
10:57:16AM I THINK THE SUGGESTION MR. CARLSON JUST MADE COULD PROBABLY
10:57:20AM GO ALONG WITH THAT TO COUNTER THAT.
10:57:23AM I DON'T SEE THAT AS A BIG ISSUE TO MOVE SOMETHING FORWARD.
10:57:28AM SOME OF THE THINGS ON OUR LIST ARE VERY SMALL AND CAN BE
10:57:30AM DEALT WITH TODAY AND BE DONE WITH AND THE VOTERS CAN LOOK AT
10:57:33AM IT, COME BACK FIRST, SECOND READING.
10:57:35AM BUT SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE VERY SIMPLE THAT CAN BE TWEAKED
10:57:37AM AND THEY NEED TO BE TWEAKED.
10:57:39AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY IN AGREEING
10:57:41AM WITH MR. CARLSON, THE ISSUE ABOUT THE JUDGE OR THE
10:57:44AM ARBITRATION PANEL?
10:57:45AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE FAIR.
10:57:48AM COULD COVER SOME SUITS.
10:57:49AM I THINK THAT WOULD BE FAIR.
10:57:51AM NEEDED TO RESOLVE SOME OF OUR ISSUES.
10:57:54AM AT TIMES THERE ARE CONFLICTS.
10:57:56AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
10:57:58AM MR. MIRANDA.
10:57:58AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. SCHROEDER.
10:58:01AM I'VE BEEN LISTENING AND NOT SAYING MUCH.
10:58:04AM I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH MAYOR POE, MAYOR
10:58:07AM GRECO, MAYOR IORIO, MAYOR BUCKHORN, AND NOW MAYOR CASTOR.

10:58:12AM THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT.
10:58:15AM THEY ALL HAD A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE.
10:58:17AM THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES.
10:58:19AM EACH ONE OF THEM WERE DIFFERENT BUT THEY ALL HAD ONE THING
10:58:22AM IN COMMON.
10:58:23AM THEY WANTED TO MAKE THE CITY BETTER THAN HOW THEY FOUND IT.
10:58:26AM THEY RAN ON THAT PLATFORM.
10:58:29AM YOU KNOW WHAT?
10:58:31AM THAT INTUITION OF MAKING IT BETTER, IT'S WHERE IT GOT US
10:58:36AM WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY.
10:58:37AM I DON'T SEE IT, AS MOST OF CITY COUNCIL, OTHER MEMBERS SEE
10:58:42AM IT.
10:58:43AM IF I GOT TO TELL SOMEBODY TO GO HE DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS, I
10:58:53AM GO TELL THEM RIGHT TO THEIR FACE.
10:58:53AM I DON'T NEED AN ARBITRATION.
10:58:53AM I DON'T NEED A PERSON TO TRY TO SMOOTH THINGS OVER BECAUSE I
10:58:57AM HANDLE IT ONE ON ONE.
10:58:58AM NOT IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA, NOT IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL
10:59:01AM TO BRING MY CITY DOWN.
10:59:02AM IF I HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, AND THAT'S JUST MY
10:59:04AM OPINION, AND I'M NOT SAYING MY OPINION IS CORRECT, I TAKE IT
10:59:08AM RIGHT TO WHERE IT'S GOT TO GO.
10:59:10AM WHAT I SEE COMING HERE FROM THE LIMITED CONVERSATION WE'VE
10:59:15AM HAD, WE'RE GOING TO CREATE A SLOWER PROCESS TO GO EVEN
10:59:20AM LONGER BECAUSE NOW YOU'LL INTERJECT ANOTHER LAYER OF AN

10:59:23AM ARBITRATOR OR A LAWSUIT.
10:59:24AM I HAVEN'T HEARD OF A LAWSUIT COMING, BUT MAYBE SOME HAVE.
10:59:28AM I DON'T TWITTER.
10:59:30AM I DON'T GO ON THE INTERNET.
10:59:33AM I DON'T DO NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
10:59:35AM I DON'T EVEN WATCH NATIONAL NEWS.
10:59:38AM THE OPINION YOU GET, SOMEBODY WHO HASN'T BEEN FORCE FED TO
10:59:43AM DO IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
10:59:45AM IF THERE ARE LAWSUITS COMING, LET THEM COME.
10:59:48AM THAT'S WHAT THE COURTS ARE FOR.
10:59:50AM BUT I'M NOT GOING TO START SETTING BODIES EVERYWHERE FOR
10:59:53AM EVERYTHING WE DO TO SAY WE CAN'T DO THIS AND CAN'T DO THAT
10:59:56AM AND THIS IS WRONG AND THIS IS NOT QUITE LIKE I WANT IT.
10:59:59AM WE HAVE A PROBLEM, IN MY MIND.
11:00:02AM THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE EIGHT ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND WE
11:00:06AM WORK UNDER THE STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
11:00:09AM IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU CAN'T CHANGE SOMETHING IF YOU HAVE
11:00:12AM FIVE VOTES.
11:00:13AM ANYTHING THE MAYOR DOES WITH FIVE VOTES, YOU CAN OVERRULE
11:00:20AM THE MAYOR.
11:00:20AM ANYTHING THE COUNCIL DOES THAT WHOEVER THE MAYOR IS, OF THE
11:00:24AM FIVE, HAPPENED ONCE WITH POE.
11:00:27AM HAPPENED IN 1974 ON A VOTE WITH A UNION, FIREFIGHTERS' PAY.
11:00:34AM WE AGREED TO A SALARY AND THE MAYOR REJECTED IT.
11:00:38AM HE HAD THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.

11:00:40AM ON A 5-2 VOTE, HE WAS OVERTURNED.
11:00:45AM SO IT DOES HAPPEN.
11:00:47AM ALL YOU NEED IS FIVE VOTES FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS TO SAY YEA
11:00:51AM OR NAY, NO MATTER WHO THE MAYOR IS.
11:00:55AM THESE THINGS WE'RE GOING THROUGH NOW, AND YOU'RE GOING TO
11:01:00AM LISTEN TO A LOT MORE, BY THE TIME WE'RE FINISHED WITH ALL
11:01:03AM THIS, HUH, YOU'LL BE CLIMBING A LONG LADDER TO HELL BECAUSE
11:01:07AM YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.
11:01:09AM YOU'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM IS THIS IS A STRONG
11:01:12AM MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
11:01:14AM THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT PERSON, THE FIVE I'VE HAD THE
11:01:17AM PLEASURE OF WORKING WITH, CAN RAMROD EVERYTHING THEY WANT
11:01:20AM OVER YOU.
11:01:21AM THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE WITH FIVE
11:01:24AM VOTES.
11:01:25AM AND THAT'S YOUR SAFETY BELT RIGHT THERE.
11:01:28AM WE'RE GOING TO DO A LOT OF TALKING TODAY AND FINE WITH ME.
11:01:32AM BUT I ALSO HAVE TODAY AN APPOINTMENT AT 3:15 THAT I HAVE GOT
11:01:37AM TO KEEP AND I'VE GOT TO BE THERE BY 3:00.
11:01:42AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:01:43AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:01:43AM MAY WE UNDERSTAND THEN THAT YOU DO NOT SUPPORT THE CURATIVE
11:01:49AM LANGUAGE THAT THE CITY SHALL UTILIZE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IN
11:01:54AM THE COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION.
11:01:55AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NO, MA'AM, I DO NOT.

11:01:57AM YOU ALREADY HAVE -- UNDER THE CHARTER WE HAVE, HERE'S WHERE
11:02:01AM THE PROBLEM IS, ONE PERSON, HE OR SHE, STATE ATTORNEY, HE OR
11:02:04AM SHE HANDLES BOTH SIDES.
11:02:07AM THERE'S ANOTHER CONFLICT.
11:02:10AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:02:10AM MR. CARLSON AND THEN --
11:02:13AM >>BILL CARLSON: YEAH, THE PROBLEM IN THIS CASE IS NOT
11:02:15AM NECESSARILY BETWEEN THE CITY COUNCIL OOPS MAYOR'S OFFICE,
11:02:17AM ALTHOUGH PART OF IT IS BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY REPORTS TO
11:02:21AM THE MAYOR, BUT WE HAVE OPINIONS OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WHICH
11:02:24AM IN EFFECT CHANGE THE CHARTER.
11:02:25AM AND WHAT WE NEED IS A DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCESS TO FIGURE
11:02:29AM THAT OUT.
11:02:29AM BECAUSE WHEN THE CITY ATTORNEY MAKES AN OPINION, IT'S HARD
11:02:35AM FOR CITY COUNCIL TO OVERRULE THAT.
11:02:36AM EXAMPLE, WE HAD A CASE RECENTLY WHERE WE FOUND OUT THAT THE
11:02:39AM ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT PUT A VERY EXPENSIVE PROJECT UP FOR
11:02:44AM BID.
11:02:44AM THEN WE ASKED TO REVIEW IT AND ASKED TO DISCUSS IT AND ASKED
11:02:47AM TO POTENTIALLY CANCEL THE CONTRACT, THE CITY ATTORNEY
11:02:53AM INFORMED US WE COULDN'T EVEN DISCUSS THAT IN THIS CHAMBER.
11:02:56AM THERE WAS NO WAY WE COULD CURE THIS WITHOUT GOING TO SOME
11:02:58AM OTHER KIND OF LEGAL COUNSEL.
11:03:00AM THE PRIVATE LEGAL COUNSEL I GOT SAID THAT NOT ONLY WAS THE
11:03:03AM CITY ATTORNEY'S REVIEW, CALLED THE CCNA PROCESS INCORRECT,

11:03:07AM BUT THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S ATTEMPT TO STIFLE US WAS
11:03:12AM INCORRECT AS WELL.
11:03:13AM WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT WHAT THE CITY
11:03:16AM ATTORNEY SAID IS WE WOULD EACH GET INDIVIDUALLY SUED AND THE
11:03:20AM CITY ATTORNEY WOULD NOT PROTECT US IF WE EVEN DISCUSSED IT
11:03:24AM PUBLICLY.
11:03:25AM THERE'S GOT TO BE A WAY TO RESOLVE THAT.
11:03:27AM WE CAN'T ALLOW OUR OWN ATTORNEY, IMAGINE IF YOU HIRE A
11:03:30AM PRIVATE ATTORNEY FOR YOUR COMPANY OR INDIVIDUAL, AND YOUR
11:03:33AM OWN ATTORNEY IS WORKING AGAINST YOU AND THREATENING YOU,
11:03:36AM THEY CAN GIVE THE OPINION BUT THE ATTORNEY IS NOT THE JUDGE
11:03:38AM AND JURY.
11:03:39AM I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR PROCESS IS.
11:03:40AM I WOULD MAKE A MOTION, I THINK WE SHOULD VOTE THESE UP AND
11:03:43AM DOWN.
11:03:43AM WE DON'T NEED A LONG DISCUSSION.
11:03:45AM I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND, UNLESS COUNCIL MEMBER GUDES WANTS TO
11:03:49AM RECOMMEND SOMETHING ELSE, I WANT RECOMMEND THAT FOR CONFLICT
11:03:52AM RESOLUTION, I RECOMMEND THE PARAGRAPH I HAVE HERE, A NEW
11:03:55AM 6.09.
11:03:56AM BY THE WAY, IF WE SAY YES, WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE CITY
11:03:59AM ATTORNEY WILL LOOK AT IT.
11:04:01AM ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THEN
11:04:03AM PRESENTED BACK FOR FIRST READING, THE PUBLIC AND CITY
11:04:05AM COUNCIL WILL HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DISCUSS IT.

11:04:08AM BUT I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT WE MOVE THIS FORWARD FOR THE
11:04:11AM CITY COUNCIL, FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO EDIT.
11:04:17AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON HAS MADE A MOTION.
11:04:19AM THE 6.09, ON MY SUPPLEMENT 135, I DON'T SEE THAT.
11:04:24AM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN YOU HAND THAT TO HER, PLEASE?
11:04:26AM I'LL GIVE YOU MY COPY.
11:04:29AM >>LYNN HURTAK: IT WOULD BE ADDING A SECTION.
11:04:31AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:04:37AM >>BILL CARLSON: IF WE DON'T HAVE A SECOND, THEN IT'S DEAD.
11:04:40AM WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE.
11:04:44AM >> SECOND.
11:04:46AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: FROM WHAT I'M BEING TOLD FROM THIS SIDE IS
11:04:49AM THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY WISHES TO MAKE A COMMENT.
11:04:51AM MAY I DO SO?
11:04:52AM MAY WE BE BRIEF?
11:04:55AM THANK YOU.
11:04:57AM AND THEN WE WILL REENTERTAIN THE MOTION.
11:05:06AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: CITY ATTORNEY.
11:05:09AM I'LL BE VERY BRIEF AND FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE.
11:05:11AM THE CITY CANNOT SUE ITSELF.
11:05:14AM THE CITY CANNOT BRING A DISPUTE TO A COURT OF COMPETENCE
11:05:19AM JURISDICTION IF IT IS BETWEEN TWO PARTS OF THE CITY.
11:05:21AM WE CAN ASK AN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL TO PROVIDE AN ADVISORY
11:05:26AM OPINION, WHICH HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST WHEN THE CITY
11:05:29AM COUNCIL AND THE CITY DIDN'T AGREE ON SOMETHING AND THE CITY

11:05:32AM ATTORNEY, I BELIEVE.
11:05:33AM BUT THE CITY CANNOT SUE ITSELF.
11:05:36AM IT IS A WASTE OF TIME TO ADD LANGUAGE TALKING ABOUT BRINGING
11:05:40AM A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S
11:05:44AM OFFICE OR CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR TO A COURT OF COMPETENT
11:05:49AM JURISDICTION FOR AN ARBITRATION PANEL BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE
11:05:52AM DONE.
11:05:53AM >>BILL CARLSON: ARBITRATION PANEL WOULD BE IN PLACE OF THE
11:05:55AM CITY ATTORNEY HIRING OUTSIDE ATTORNEY.
11:05:57AM WE KNOW HIRING OUTSIDE ATTORNEY ENDS UP POTENTIALLY HAVING
11:06:01AM BIAS CONNECTED TO IT.
11:06:02AM WE'VE SEEN HOW INVESTIGATIONS HAVE GONE AND OTHERS DIRECTED
11:06:05AM BY THE ADMINISTRATION THROUGH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:06:07AM AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE WE HAVE COMPETENT
11:06:10AM OBJECTIVE LEGAL ADVICE FOR THE CITY COUNCIL.
11:06:13AM I DON'T SEE HOW AN ARBITRATION PANEL IS NOT A LAWSUIT.
11:06:18AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: THEY RESOLVE CIVIL DISPUTES.
11:06:21AM AND YOU CANNOT HAVE A CIVIL DISPUTE BETWEEN --
11:06:24AM >>BILL CARLSON: THE POINT IS WHAT IS THE PROCESS BY WHICH
11:06:27AM CITY COUNCIL CAN GET A FAIR HEARING?
11:06:29AM IF CITY ATTORNEY WHO REPORTS TO THE MAYOR HIRES AN OUTSIDE
11:06:33AM ATTORNEY, WE KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THAT IS GOING TO BE.
11:06:35AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I WANTED TO BE BRIEF, BUT LET ME BE CLEAR.
11:06:39AM I REPRESENT THE CITY OF TAMPA.
11:06:43AM WHAT I HEAR COMING FROM YOU, MR. CARLSON, IS DIFFERENCES OF

11:06:50AM OPINION THAT YOU'VE HAD WITH PAST CITY ATTORNEYS, WITH PAST
11:06:55AM MAYORS, WITH OTHERS.
11:06:58AM WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT A CHARTER AMENDMENT IS NOT
11:07:03AM NECESSARY TO RESOLVE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION.
11:07:06AM >>BILL CARLSON: WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT IN A SECOND WHETHER
11:07:08AM WE HAVE FOUR VOTES.
11:07:09AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I WOULD SUGGEST TALK TO MY OFFICE, TALK TO
11:07:13AM THE ADMINISTRATION, LET US SET UP MEETINGS.
11:07:16AM WE CAN RESOLVE THESE ISSUES.
11:07:17AM YOU AND I HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT PROCESS.
11:07:21AM I PROPOSED SOLUTIONS IN A MEMORANDUM TO YOU.
11:07:24AM YOU ALL APPROVED A PROCESS REGARDING NAMING.
11:07:30AM IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT NOW, WE CAN READDRESS THAT.
11:07:34AM WE DON'T HAVE TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO RESOLVE DIFFERENCES OF
11:07:38AM OPINION.
11:07:40AM BUT, AGAIN, I WANTED TO JUST STICK TO THE VERY ISSUE THAT
11:07:42AM WAS IN FRONT OF US.
11:07:44AM WE CANNOT TAKE DISAGREEMENTS BETWEEN BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT
11:07:49AM TO A DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCESS THAT'S PROVIDED FOR CIVIL
11:07:55AM LITIGATION BECAUSE THE CITY CAN'T SUE ITSELF.
11:07:58AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MS. ZELMAN.
11:07:59AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I CAN BE RECOGNIZED, PLEASE.
11:08:02AM MARTIN SHELBY.
11:08:05AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: BEFORE THAT, I DID SEE ANOTHER HAND.
11:08:07AM YES, MR. MANISCALCO.

11:08:08AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:08:10AM AND I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS.
11:08:12AM HOWEVER, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER FOR
11:08:15AM ABOUT THREE AND A HALF, ALMOST FOUR YEARS.
11:08:17AM AND IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE ALL EIGHT ELECTED
11:08:20AM OFFICIALS ARE GOOD PEOPLE.
11:08:21AM I KNOW THEM ALL.
11:08:22AM I WORKED WITH THEM.
11:08:23AM I SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM.
11:08:25AM HOWEVER, IN DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE, I KNOW THAT MR. SHELBY,
11:08:29AM ONE OF THE HARDEST WORKING INDIVIDUALS I KNOW, IS THE FIRST
11:08:34AM CITY -- FIRST AND ONLY CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:08:36AM WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT POSITION UNTIL 2004.
11:08:39AM BEFORE THAT, WE JUST HAD A CITY ATTORNEY.
11:08:42AM WE HAD THE OPINION OF THAT INDIVIDUAL AND THEIR OFFICE AND
11:08:46AM THE POSITION WAS CREATED FOR CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE THEIR OWN
11:08:50AM SEPARATE INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY THAT IS HIRED AND FIRED BY
11:08:54AM THIS BODY.
11:08:55AM THE MAYOR HAS NO SAY.
11:08:58AM HAVING SAID THAT, THERE IS A SEPARATION.
11:09:01AM THERE IS THE BALANCE, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE WE NOW HAVE TWO
11:09:05AM OPINIONS.
11:09:07AM UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE LAST YEAR, OTHER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED
11:09:11AM WITH OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH.
11:09:16AM AND THE CHARTER IS VERY CLEAR IN WHAT IT SAYS IN REGARDS TO

11:09:22AM THE CITY DEFENDING COUNCIL MEMBERS AND WHATNOT.
11:09:25AM I DON'T THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED OR UPDATED.
11:09:28AM WE JUST NEED TO FOLLOW WHAT IS EXISTING IN THE CHARTER.
11:09:31AM HAVING THIS ARBITRATOR, THIS THIRD PARTY PANEL TO SETTLE
11:09:37AM DISAGREEMENTS, I THOUGHT THAT WAS SETTLED WHEN WE HIRED OUR
11:09:40AM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:09:43AM WE HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION HERE.
11:09:45AM IT'S AN INDEPENDENT INDIVIDUAL FROM THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.
11:09:48AM SO WHY IS IT THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS MEDIATOR ESSENTIALLY
11:09:53AM TO SETTLE CONFLICT?
11:09:55AM I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S
11:10:00AM NECESSARY.
11:10:01AM THANK YOU.
11:10:01AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:10:02AM MR. SHELBY AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO A MOTION.
11:10:12AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THE MEMO THAT I SENT OUT SEEMS TO BE
11:10:18AM CHANGING THE PROCESS.
11:10:20AM AND THAT IS AN UNFORTUNATE, UNINTENDED, FRANKLY,
11:10:24AM CIRCUMSTANCE.
11:10:25AM THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS -- WHEN I SUGGEST CURATIVE
11:10:30AM LANGUAGE, CERTAINLY I DID NOT -- IT WAS AN EXAMPLE.
11:10:33AM IT WOULD HAVE TO BE VETTED.
11:10:35AM I'M LOOKING MORE AT THE ISSUE OF LET'S SAY, FOR INSTANCE,
11:10:38AM SEPARATION OF POWERS.
11:10:39AM WHEN I LOOK AT THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, THAT GENERATES A

11:10:43AM LOT OF DISCUSSION WITHIN THE CHARTER, AND THAT'S AN
11:10:46AM OVERARCHING DISCUSSION.
11:10:47AM AND THERE ARE THINGS IN HERE THAT SOMETIMES REPEAT
11:10:50AM THEMSELVES WITH REGARD TO WHEN THESE KIND OF ISSUES OF
11:10:53AM SEPARATION OF POWERS COMES UP.
11:10:55AM AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT THE FORUM TO DO THAT.
11:11:02AM I DON'T WANT THE FACT THAT, WHAT AN EXAMPLE IS, IT'S AN
11:11:06AM EXAMPLE.
11:11:07AM IT'S NOT SOMETHING -- IT'S NOT A RECOMMENDATION ON MY PART.
11:11:11AM IT'S BETTER IF COUNCIL LOOKS RATHER THAN WHAT CURATIVE
11:11:14AM LANGUAGE WHAT MIGHT BE, BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I DID NOT REALLY
11:11:17AM HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY OR IN HINDSIGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
11:11:26AM WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF VETTED WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:11:28AM THEY HAVE NOT HAD MUCH TIME TO COMMENT ON THIS AND I DON'T
11:11:30AM THINK COUNCIL SHOULD PUT MUCH WEIGHT IN THE LANGUAGE.
11:11:34AM I THINK IT'S MORE IMPORTANT, MS. SCHROEDER, FOR THE
11:11:36AM OVERARCHING DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW TO RESOLVE SOME OF THESE
11:11:41AM ISSUES.
11:11:42AM COUNCIL, I WANT TO SAY IT'S NOT MY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU
11:11:46AM TAKE THIS CURATIVE LANGUAGE BECAUSE, FRANKLY, AND MS. ZELMAN
11:11:50AM MADE THAT REALLY CLEAR, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN FULLY VETTED AND
11:11:53AM THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I REALLY THINK IS HURTING THE
11:11:59AM PROCESS, JUST TO FOCUS ON THAT.
11:12:03AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. SHELBY.
11:12:05AM YES, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE INTENT WHEN

11:12:08AM WORDS ARE BEING USED OR A SUGGESTION.
11:12:10AM MR. CARLSON AND THEN MR. GUDES.
11:12:12AM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO -- BASED ON WHAT THE
11:12:15AM CITY ATTORNEY SAID, I'M NOT USING THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS
11:12:19AM PROPOSED BY MR. SHELBY.
11:12:22AM I'M PROPOSING THE LANGUAGE THAT I PUT IN HERE, BUT I WILL
11:12:26AM MODIFY MY MOTION TO SAY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT THE
11:12:31AM CITY ATTORNEY LOOK AT THIS LANGUAGE AND EITHER EDIT IT OR
11:12:36AM PROPOSE AN ALTERNATIVE TO PRESENT BACK TO COUNCIL.
11:12:40AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THAT'S THE INFORMATION I WAS HANDED ON THE
11:12:42AM SHEET OF PAPER THAT I PASSED OVER TO THE NOTE TAKER.
11:12:45AM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
11:12:45AM THE MODIFICATION IS TO EDIT IT OR PROPOSE AN ALTERNATIVE AND
11:12:49AM PRESENT BACK TO COUNCIL.
11:12:51AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO HEARD.
11:12:51AM MS. HURTAK.
11:12:53AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I WILL ACCEPT THAT.
11:12:56AM AS THE SECONDER, I WILL ACCEPT THAT.
11:12:58AM IF YOU ADD A DATE OF LIKE REALLY SOON.
11:13:00AM >>BILL CARLSON: BUT I THINK ALL THESE ARE COMING BACK ON A
11:13:03AM CERTAIN DATE, RIGHT?
11:13:08AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT'S AN ISSUE BECAUSE, COUNCIL, IT
11:13:10AM DEPENDS ON HOW MANY YOU MAKE AND WHAT THE TURNAROUND TIME
11:13:14AM IS, WHETHER IT CAN BE.
11:13:16AM MS. ZELMAN AND I --

11:13:18AM >>BILL CARLSON: DID WE NOT SET A SCHEDULE FOR THE FIRST
11:13:21AM READING?
11:13:21AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THE SCHEDULE ON THE FIRST READING IS WHAT
11:13:23AM IS REQUIRED TO WORK BACKWARDS FROM THE DATE THAT THE
11:13:26AM SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS HAS TO GET THIS FOR --
11:13:30AM >>BILL CARLSON: I WILL SAY ADD IT TO MY MOTION TO BE
11:13:33AM PRESENTED AT THE DATE THAT WE AGREE ON AT THE END OF THE DAY
11:13:36AM FOR FIRST READING.
11:13:37AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: RIGHT.
11:13:38AM BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF OUR OUTCOMES IS TO LOOK AT NEXT STEPS
11:13:41AM AND TIMELINE.
11:13:43AM DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
11:13:44AM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
11:13:45AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. GUDES AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE WE WANT
11:13:47AM TO CALL FOR A VOTE TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.
11:13:49AM YES, SIR.
11:13:49AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YOU KNOW, AS I SIT HERE, I GUESS I STILL
11:13:53AM HAVE A POLICE MENTALITY THAT THIS BACK AND FORTH, THERE'S
11:13:56AM SOMETHING ON THE TABLE.
11:13:57AM YOU MAKE A DECISION.
11:13:58AM WE MAKE A DECISION.
11:14:00AM WE MOVE ON IT.
11:14:01AM MR. MANISCALCO IS A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE.
11:14:04AM HE TALKS ABOUT WHATEVER HE TALKS ABOUT GETTING ALONG.
11:14:08AM BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT THIS MAN ALWAYS HEARS AND IT

11:14:11AM FRUSTRATES ME TO NO END, NOT THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:14:15AM I HAVE -- MR. MANISCALCO JUST SAY WE HAVE OUR OWN CITY
11:14:19AM ATTORNEY AND HE TELLS -- THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S BEEN OPERATING.
11:14:23AM THAT'S NOT HOW I'VE SEEN IT OPERATE.
11:14:25AM TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE SAYS I HAVE TO GO THROUGH LEGAL AND
11:14:29AM GO THROUGH THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR APPROVAL OF THIS, THIS, AND
11:14:32AM THAT.
11:14:32AM I HEARD IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
11:14:34AM SO HE DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO CERTAIN THINGS.
11:14:37AM HE DOES NOT AS COUNSEL.
11:14:39AM SOMETIMES HE DOESN'T SPEAK UP ABOUT THINGS THAT I THINK HE
11:14:43AM SHOULD SPEAK UP ABOUT.
11:14:44AM THAT'S WHY I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS.
11:14:46AM STILL, YOU HAVE ONE BODY WHO IS STILL DICTATING WHAT GOES ON
11:14:50AM VERSUS IF THERE IS A DISPUTE, WHO WILL SETTLE THE DISPUTE?
11:14:53AM THAT'S THE ISSUE I HAVE.
11:14:55AM AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COUNCIL DOESN'T SEE THAT OR
11:14:58AM DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IT EITHER.
11:14:59AM THIS IS NOT FOR POLITICAL POINTS.
11:15:02AM DO WHAT'S RIGHT.
11:15:03AM DON'T BE A COWARD.
11:15:04AM YOU KNOW WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG.
11:15:06AM FIX WHAT'S WRONG.
11:15:07AM IF YOU GOT A PROBLEM, THERE IS A PROBLEM HERE.
11:15:09AM I YIELD BACK.

11:15:10AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. GUDES, SO THE INFORMATION THAT WAS
11:15:14AM SHARED BY MR. CARLSON, EVERYONE AT THE DAIS HAS A COPY OF
11:15:18AM THAT?
11:15:18AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.
11:15:19AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: ALL RIGHT.
11:15:20AM >>BILL CARLSON: AND THE CLERK.
11:15:21AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: AND THE CLERK.
11:15:24AM MR. MIRANDA.
11:15:25AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: AS I STATED EARLIER, YOU SEE THE PROBLEM.
11:15:28AM THE PUBLIC CAN HEAR THE PROBLEM.
11:15:29AM IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO THE CITY ATTORNEY IS.
11:15:32AM MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY IS.
11:15:34AM YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.
11:15:35AM BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.
11:15:39AM THERE'S EIGHT ELECTED OFFICIALS AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE
11:15:44AM WE CAN'T EVEN MAKE VEGETABLE SOUP BECAUSE THE INGREDIENTS
11:15:47AM ARE THERE BUT WE'RE NOT BOILING IT.
11:15:51AM WE'RE BOILING IT WITHOUT WATER AND, THEREFORE, YOU ARE GOING
11:15:55AM TO GET NOTHING BUT SLOP.
11:15:56AM WE HAVE A PERSONALITY PROBLEM.
11:15:58AM LIKE I SAID EARLIER, FIVE MAYORS I WORKED WITH.
11:16:01AM THEY WERE ALL DIFFERENT AND ALL TELL YOU TO COME INTO THE
11:16:03AM OFFICE ANYTIME YOU WANTED.
11:16:05AM AT LEAST I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT.
11:16:07AM YOU JUST WALK IN.

11:16:09AM I DON'T CARE WHAT MAYOR IS THERE, THEY ARE GOING TO COME OUT
11:16:12AM AND TALK TO YOU AND HOLD WHOEVER IS THERE IN THE OFFICE.
11:16:15AM THAT'S THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS.
11:16:18AM IT'S BEEN WORKING LIKE THAT FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.
11:16:20AM AND ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW WE WANT TO HIRE MORE ATTORNEYS, MORE
11:16:25AM THIS, MORE THAT, MORE AIDES, MORE THIS, ONE OR THE OTHER AND
11:16:29AM YET I GOT PEOPLE WHO CAN'T EVEN PAY THEIR RENT.
11:16:33AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:16:34AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:16:35AM I BELIEVE WE WANT TO CALL FOR A VOTE.
11:16:40AM MR. CARLSON, COULD YOU RESTATE WHAT IT IS THAT YOUR MOTION
11:16:45AM IS CALLING FOR?
11:16:46AM WE WANT TO SEE IT UP ON THE NOTES THAT'S BEEN TAKEN OVER
11:16:50AM HERE.
11:16:58AM >>BILL CARLSON: MY MOTION IS TO ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY TO
11:17:04AM COME BACK ON THE FIRST READING THAT WE WILL DECIDE AT THE
11:17:09AM END OF THE DAY WITH PROPOSED EDITS OR ALTERNATIVE TO THE
11:17:17AM FOLLOWING: THE FOLLOWING WOULD BE TO PROPOSE A NEW 6.09
11:17:22AM CONFLICT RESOLUTION.
11:17:23AM SHOULD A CONFLICT ARISE BETWEEN CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR
11:17:26AM OR BETWEEN EITHER PARTY AND THE CITY ATTORNEY, SUCH CONFLICT
11:17:29AM SHOULD BE RESOLVED IN A QUICK, OBJECTIVE, AND COLLEGIAL
11:17:32AM MANNER SO AS TO BEST REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF THE RESIDENTS
11:17:35AM OF TAMPA.
11:17:36AM IN THE EVENT OF A CONFLICT, THE TWO PARTIES, UNDER

11:17:38AM COORDINATION BY THE CITY ATTORNEY, WILL APPOINT AN
11:17:41AM ARBITRATION PANEL CONSISTING OF THREE ARBITRATORS WHO WILL
11:17:43AM BE JOINTLY SELECTED BY THE TWO PARTIES.
11:17:46AM EITHER THROUGH THEIR ATTORNEYS OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL APPOINTED
11:17:49AM BY THE CITY ATTORNEY, THE TWO PARTIES WILL PRESENT THEIR
11:17:51AM CASE TO THE ARBITRATION PANEL.
11:17:52AM THE ARBITRATION PANEL WILL GIVE THEIR JUDGMENT ON THE MATTER
11:17:55AM AND BOTH PARTIES WILL BE BOUND BY THE RULING.
11:17:58AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:17:59AM MAY WE CALL FOR A VOTE TO TAKE THIS FORWARD?
11:18:03AM WE NEED A SECOND.
11:18:05AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: IT WAS SECONDED BY --
11:18:08AM >>LYNN HURTAK: YEAH, I'M NOT GOING TO SECOND IT.
11:18:13AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I'LL SECOND AND SEE WHERE IT GOES.
11:18:17AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: PLEASE RESTATE THAT.
11:18:19AM I'M SORRY.
11:18:21AM >>BILL CARLSON: HE SECONDED IT.
11:18:22AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: HE SECONDED IT.
11:18:23AM THANK YOU.
11:18:24AM IT CARRIES WITH A VOTE OF FOUR.
11:18:29AM >> YES.
11:18:31AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MAY WE SEE THE FOUR?
11:18:32AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: SOMEBODY HAS TO CALL FOR A ROLL CALL
11:18:34AM VOTE.
11:18:37AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: OR A VOICE VOTE.

11:18:41AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I CAN SEE BY HANDS, YES.
11:18:43AM IF WE HAVE FOUR.
11:18:44AM WE NEED TO SEE WHO VOTES.
11:18:46AM >>BILL CARLSON: ARE WE VOTING NOW?
11:18:49AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:18:52AM >>BILL CARLSON: IT'S 1-6.
11:18:54AM >> NOT WORKING.
11:18:56AM >>BILL CARLSON: YOU ASKED US TO RAISE OUR HANDS, RIGHT?
11:18:59AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:18:59AM >>BILL CARLSON: IS IT 6-1?
11:19:02AM IT'S DEAD.
11:19:05AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WAIT A SECOND.
11:19:06AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WE DIDN'T VOTE.
11:19:11AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I ASKED FOR A SHOW OF HANDS.
11:19:13AM WE HAD ONE HAND UP.
11:19:15AM MR. CARLSON.
11:19:17AM >>BILL CARLSON: IT'S DEAD.
11:19:18AM THANK YOU.
11:19:23AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: AS WE MOVE FORWARD, AGAIN, IF YOU WERE
11:19:26AM LOOKING AT ARTICLE II, LEGISLATIVE, DEPENDING UPON THE --
11:19:33AM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN I MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT?
11:19:35AM THIS PUTS OUR CITY IN GRAVE DANGER.
11:19:37AM IT'S NOT A PERSONALITY CONFLICT.
11:19:40AM THIS IS A CONFLICT WHERE THERE IS A SEPARATION OF POWERS AND
11:19:45AM WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE CHARTER.

11:19:46AM AND WHEN SOMEBODY INSIDE THE CITY IS NOT FOLLOWING THE
11:19:49AM CHARTER, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR STICKING TO IT.
11:19:52AM AND WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO FIGHT IT.
11:19:54AM SO I HOPE THAT THERE WOULD BE OTHER MODIFICATIONS TO THE
11:19:57AM CHARTER.
11:19:57AM BUT THIS PUTS US IN GRAVE DANGER OF PUTTING THE TAXPAYERS AT
11:20:01AM RISK HERE.
11:20:01AM THANK YOU.
11:20:02AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:20:03AM I'LL CALL ON MS. HURTAK IN JUST A MOMENT.
11:20:04AM MR. CARLSON, YOU REFERENCED ANOTHER PART OF THE CHARTER THAT
11:20:07AM TOUCHES ON THIS.
11:20:09AM MIGHT THERE BE AN OPPORTUNITY THERE?
11:20:11AM >>BILL CARLSON: LET'S JUST GO ON THROUGH THE LIST LIKE YOU
11:20:15AM SUGGESTED AND SEE.
11:20:15AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:20:17AM MS. HURTAK, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS VOTE?
11:20:19AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I ACTUALLY WANTED TO HAVE A SEPARATE MOTION
11:20:23AM ON THE SAME IDEA.
11:20:26AM I AGREE.
11:20:27AM WE HAVE TO SOLVE THIS.
11:20:28AM BUT I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE EXAMPLE OF CURATIVE
11:20:31AM LANGUAGE AND TAKE OUT IN A COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION.
11:20:36AM SO MY MOTION IS -- AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE -- LET ME JUST
11:20:44AM MAKE THE MOTION AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN TALK IT OUT.

11:20:46AM MY MOTION IS TO ADD -- AND SURE, I'LL MAKE IT A SECTION
11:20:51AM 6.09.
11:20:56AM IN THE EVENT OF A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL
11:20:58AM WHICH CANNOT BE RECONCILED, THE CITY SHALL UTILIZE
11:21:02AM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.
11:21:03AM >>BILL CARLSON: SECOND.
11:21:04AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: PERIOD.
11:21:05AM >>LYNN HURTAK: WELL, THAT'S, I GUESS, MY QUESTION FOR MY
11:21:08AM COLLEAGUES IS IF OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS SAYING WE CAN'T USE --
11:21:16AM THAT WE CAN'T SUE AND IF THEY ARE SAYING THAT ARBITRATORS,
11:21:20AM WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE ARBITRATORS, BUT SHE IS
11:21:23AM SAYING THAT WE CAN USE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, I'M JUST NOT SURE
11:21:26AM HOW.
11:21:26AM MR. CARLSON, DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE I DID NOT?
11:21:30AM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD ADD, PLEASE THAT IT REPORT TO THE
11:21:33AM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:21:33AM >>LYNN HURTAK: OKAY.
11:21:35AM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL THAT WOULD REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL
11:21:42AM ATTORNEY?
11:21:44AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: MS. SCHROEDER?
11:21:48AM >>LYNN HURTAK: THEN I AMEND THAT MOTION TO SAY IN THE EVENT
11:21:50AM OF A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL WHICH CANNOT
11:21:53AM BE RECONCILED, THE CITY SHALL UTILIZE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL
11:21:56AM THAT WOULD REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY?
11:22:02AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE HAVE A QUESTION BY MR. SHELBY.

11:22:04AM THANK YOU, MS. HURTAK.
11:22:05AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THIS IS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION BECAUSE
11:22:08AM THIS CHARTER IS AN ORGANIC DOCUMENT.
11:22:13AM IT IS A HOLISTIC DOCUMENT.
11:22:14AM ONE SECTION RELATES TO THE OTHER SECTIONS.
11:22:17AM FOR INSTANCE, THE ISSUE WITH THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, IT
11:22:21AM COMES BACK TO THE SECTION 501A.
11:22:24AM YOU HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THAT YET, AND THAT SAYS THAT THE
11:22:27AM CITY ATTORNEY SHALL BE THE FINAL LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE TO THE
11:22:30AM CITY, TO HAVE SOMEBODY REPORT BACK TO ME DOES NOT ACCOMPLISH
11:22:35AM ANYTHING PURSUANT TO THIS CHARTER.
11:22:36AM I'M CONCERNED ABOUT LOOKING AT THESE THINGS PIECE MEAL
11:22:42AM RATHER THAN ORGANICALLY BECAUSE -- AND MAYBE IT WAS NOT THE
11:22:51AM BEST CHOICE TO PUT THIS IN THE SECTION WHERE SOMETHING CAN
11:22:54AM GO BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO FIND OVERLAPS IN SECTIONS OTHER
11:22:57AM WHERE THE SEPARATION OF POWER JUST COMES UP.
11:23:00AM SO THE MEMO REALLY MAKES THINGS MORE COMPLICATED, FRANKLY,
11:23:05AM THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.
11:23:06AM BECAUSE I DON'T WANT COUNCIL TO BE IN A POSITION OF MAKING
11:23:08AM MOTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO REQUIRE THE CITY ATTORNEY TO DO
11:23:11AM SOME WORK BY FIRST READING AND HAVE IT COME BACK.
11:23:15AM IT WON'T MAKE IT TO THE BALLOT.
11:23:18AM THE ISSUE SHOULD BE WHETHER IT MAKES IT TO THE BALLOT BY
11:23:20AM THIS POINT IN TIME.
11:23:21AM WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU NOW IS THAT TO THE MAKER OF THE

11:23:26AM MOTION, TO HAVE SOMEBODY REPORT TO ME DOES NOT IMBUE THEM
11:23:30AM WITH ANY POWER BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THE
11:23:33AM CHARTER.
11:23:34AM WE'RE NOT AT THAT POINT WHERE WE CAN HAVE THIS KIND OF
11:23:37AM DISCUSSION AT A WORKSHOP.
11:23:40AM IT'S TRUE, OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THE CITY CHARTER
11:23:44AM REVIEW COMMISSION WAS ABLE TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS AND
11:23:46AM DEBATE THEM.
11:23:48AM FOR INSTANCE, THIS ONE TIME, THIS ONE LITTLE SUBJECT, I
11:23:51AM THINK THE CHAIRMAN IS RIGHT IN TERMS OF WHAT EFFECT THIS IS
11:23:55AM GOING TO HAVE, WHAT IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE ACCOMPLISHED
11:23:57AM BY THE END OF THE DAY.
11:23:59AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: BEFORE I CALL ON MR. GUDES, MS. HURTAK,
11:24:02AM THAT WAS DIRECTED AT YOU.
11:24:04AM DID YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT TO MODIFY?
11:24:07AM >>LYNN HURTAK: SURE.
11:24:08AM I'LL JUST TAKE OUT THAT WE REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL
11:24:10AM ATTORNEY AND JUST SAY SHALL UTILIZE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL TO
11:24:13AM RESOLVE THE DISPUTE.
11:24:14AM >>BILL CARLSON: SECOND.
11:24:16AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MAY WE HAVE A VOTE ON THAT AS THE OTHER
11:24:19AM MOTION ON THE FLOOR WITH A SECOND?
11:24:21AM I'M SORRY.
11:24:22AM MR. GUDES, I DID SAY I WOULD CALL ON YOU.
11:24:25AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I THINK YOU STILL RUN INTO AN ISSUE WITH

11:24:28AM THE SECTION 5.
11:24:29AM I THINK STILL AFTER THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL HAS MADE OR
11:24:32AM RENDERED A DECISION, IT WILL GO BACK TO THE CITY ATTORNEY
11:24:36AM FOR THE RULING BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, 5.09 SAYS IT
11:24:40AM IS THE ULTIMATE DECISION.
11:24:42AM I THINK ONCE THE DECISION IS MADE, YOU'LL PUT THAT IN FOR
11:24:44AM 6.09, I THINK IT HAS TO COME BACK TO THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT
11:24:48AM THE DECISION WAS MADE.
11:24:49AM JUST MY RATIONALE BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE BUMPING INTO A
11:24:54AM SITUATION BECAUSE 5 SAYS THE CITY ATTORNEY MAKE THE ULTIMATE
11:24:57AM DECISION.
11:24:58AM MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISION AND YOU'RE SAYING WE'LL HAVE
11:25:00AM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL FOR THE DISPUTE, IT SHOULD GO BACK TO
11:25:03AM THE CITY ATTORNEY SO THE DECISION CAN BE FORTH RIGHT AND PUT
11:25:06AM OUT.
11:25:06AM MY OPINION.
11:25:09AM >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK WE SHOULD JUST VOTE UP OR DOWN ON
11:25:11AM THIS.
11:25:12AM I'VE GOT A LOT OF SUGGESTIONS FOR SECTION FIVE AND OTHER
11:25:15AM PEOPLE CAN WEIGH IN ON THAT, TOO.
11:25:17AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: ALL RIGHT.
11:25:18AM AGAIN, BECAUSE IT'S ORGANIC, IF SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE,
11:25:21AM THIS IS NOT FINAL LANGUAGE AT THIS MOMENT.
11:25:23AM WE'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO GET SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THAT HAS
11:25:27AM AS MUCH OF YOUR INPUT AND MUCH OF YOUR THOUGHTS AS POSSIBLE.

11:25:30AM WE CAN STILL GO BACK.
11:25:31AM WE CAN CIRCLE BACK AND MODIFY.
11:25:33AM THERE'S NOT A FINAL DECISION TODAY.
11:25:36AM WITH THE MOTION AS WAS MADE BY MS. HURTAK AND SHE AMENDED IT
11:25:43AM BY TAKING OUT COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION, COULD WE HAVE
11:25:47AM A VOTE?
11:25:49AM FOUR WILL CARRY IT.
11:25:50AM IF YOU COULD RAISE YOUR HANDS, WE WILL CALL ON YOU THAT YOU
11:25:53AM WILL CARRY IT FORWARD.
11:25:54AM WE HAVE THREE.
11:25:55AM MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
11:25:58AM THAT DOES NOT CARRY.
11:26:00AM LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH ARTICLE II, LEGISLATIVE AND WE HAVE
11:26:11AM SECTION 2.01, CITY COUNCIL, 2.02, QUALIFICATIONS, 2.03,
11:26:16AM ORGANIZATIONS.
11:26:17AM 2.04, STAFF.
11:26:19AM 2.05, EXERCISE.
11:26:20AM 2.06 ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS, SO ON.
11:26:24AM THERE ARE MANY.
11:26:24AM WHO WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON ANYTHING IN SECTION II, PLEASE
11:26:29AM RAISE YOUR HAND IF THAT'S ONE OF YOUR AREAS.
11:26:32AM I SAW MR. CARLSON'S HAND.
11:26:34AM YES.
11:26:34AM WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL OUT THE SECTION.
11:26:37AM >>BILL CARLSON: YES, SECTION 2.04.

11:26:42AM I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ONE FOR THE FACILITATOR.
11:26:50AM IF WE HAVE ONE AT THE END, WE'LL GIVE.
11:26:53AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: STATE THE SECTION.
11:26:54AM >>BILL CARLSON: 2.04-B-1.
11:26:58AM SO TOWARD THE END, WHAT I WANT TO DO IS FURTHER IN DEFINING
11:27:08AM THE ROLE OF THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, AGAIN, WE'LL GET TO
11:27:11AM 5.0 IN A MINUTE, BUT JUST ADD THAT WE NEED TO EXPLICITLY ADD
11:27:17AM THAT THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY HAS THE RIGHT TO HIRE LEGAL
11:27:20AM STAFF OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL AS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL.
11:27:23AM YES, THIS MEANS NOT GOING THROUGH THE CITY ATTORNEY BECAUSE
11:27:26AM WE NEED OBJECTIVITY.
11:27:29AM THE PROBLEM IS THE CITY ATTORNEY CANNOT BE AN EMPLOYMENT LAW
11:27:32AM ATTORNEY, A LITIGATOR, A CHARTER ATTORNEY, AND ETHICS
11:27:36AM ATTORNEY.
11:27:36AM HE CAN'T KNOW EVERYTHING, ALTHOUGH HE KNOWS ALMOST
11:27:38AM EVERYTHING.
11:27:38AM WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HIRE SPECIALISTS TO ANSWER QUESTIONS
11:27:42AM WHEN WE NEED THEM AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE GET OPINIONS FROM
11:27:45AM THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT WE DON'T AGREE WITH.
11:27:47AM WE CAN MODIFIED SECTION FIVE IN A MINUTE, BUT THE CITY
11:27:51AM COUNCIL ATTORNEY NEEDS THE ABILITY TO HIRE OUTSIDE, EITHER
11:27:54AM LEGAL STAFF OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
11:27:56AM SO I WOULD MOVE THAT WE, AGAIN, ASK THE -- IT'S NOT GOING TO
11:28:03AM BE THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:28:05AM THE CITY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO HIRE AN OUTSIDE ATTORNEY THAT

11:28:07AM WILL PICK.
11:28:08AM THE CITY ATTORNEY THROUGH THEIR OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS WOULD
11:28:12AM REVIEW THIS AND PROPOSE AN ORDINANCE TO BE PRESENTED AT THE
11:28:19AM FIRST HEARING DATE THAT WE WILL DECIDE AT THE END OF THE
11:28:21AM DAY.
11:28:27AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK.
11:28:28AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I HAVE A QUESTION OF WHERE YOU WANT TO PUT
11:28:30AM THIS.
11:28:32AM IN SECTION ONE AFTER B-1 AT THE END, BECAUSE THAT SAYS, AND
11:28:38AM PROVIDING INDEPENDENT ADVISORY OPINIONS AS REQUESTED BY THE
11:28:41AM CITY COUNCIL.
11:28:42AM SO ARE YOU PROPOSING TO ADD THIS AS NUMBER THREE UNDER B?
11:28:52AM >>BILL CARLSON: IT'S BEEN SO LONG SINCE I DID THIS THAT I
11:28:55AM FORGOT.
11:28:55AM LET'S SAY ADD THIS IN SECTION 2.04 AND THEN WE CAN SORT IT
11:28:59AM OUT.
11:28:59AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I THINK IT FITS UNDER --
11:29:01AM >>BILL CARLSON: FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:29:03AM IN REGARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:29:05AM >>LYNN HURTAK: OH, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, YES, OKAY.
11:29:11AM >>BILL CARLSON: YES, IT WOULD BE ADDING A NUMBER THREE.
11:29:13AM SO IT WOULD BE SECTION 2.04, THREE, DEFINING THE ROLE OF THE
11:29:20AM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY TO ADD THE LANGUAGE THAT THE CITY
11:29:22AM COUNCIL ATTORNEY CAN, QUOTE, HIRE LEGAL STAFF OR OUTSIDE
11:29:27AM COUNSEL AS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL.

11:29:29AM >>LYNN HURTAK: B-3 IS WHAT YOU'RE ADDING?
11:29:32AM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
11:29:33AM >>LYNN HURTAK: OKAY.
11:29:34AM I'LL SECOND THAT.
11:29:35AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:29:36AM MR. VIERA, DID I SEE YOUR HAND EARLIER ON?
11:29:38AM >>LUIS VIERA: YES.
11:29:39AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:29:40AM YOU KNOW, THIS IS VERY APPARENTLY NARROWLY TAILORED
11:29:43AM PROPOSAL.
11:29:44AM MY CONCERNS WITH IT IS, IS NUMBER ONE, WITH THE OUTSIDE
11:29:49AM COUNSEL, IN OTHER WORDS, MAYBE IT IS A QUESTION FOR LEGAL,
11:29:52AM IS THERE SOMETHING THAT PRECLUDES, OR MR. SHELBY, IS THERE
11:29:55AM SOMETHING THAT PRECLUDES MR. SHELBY FROM POTENTIALLY
11:29:58AM RETAINING OUTSIDE COUNSEL ALREADY THAT WOULD NECESSITATE A
11:30:01AM CHARTER AMENDMENT?
11:30:03AM NUMBER ONE.
11:30:04AM NUMBER TWO, THE POTENTIALLY OVERLY EXPANSIVE INCLUSION OF,
11:30:07AM QUOTE, UNQUOTE, LEGAL STAFF WHICH COULD BE SO VAGUE,
11:30:11AM PERSONAL OPINION, CALL ME NAIVE, I DON'T THINK MR. SHELBY --
11:30:15AM AND, AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT FUTURE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEYS,
11:30:16AM SO NOT JUST THIS ONE, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS PRESENTLY A
11:30:19AM NEED FOR LEGAL STAFF.
11:30:21AM I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT FROM MR. SHELBY.
11:30:23AM MAYBE I'M WRONG.

11:30:24AM HE CAN CORRECT THAT RECORD IF THAT IS SO.
11:30:27AM AGAIN, MY ISSUE WITH THIS, WHY GO THROUGH THE CHARTER WITH
11:30:30AM THIS IF IT'S NOT PRECLUDED ALREADY AND MAYBE THE EXPANSIVE
11:30:34AM NATURE OF THE LEGAL STAFF.
11:30:35AM THAT IS THE ONE THAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST.
11:30:37AM JUST QUESTIONS I POSE.
11:30:39AM THANK YOU.
11:30:39AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:30:40AM MR. MIRANDA HAD A HAND.
11:30:41AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'M NOT OPPOSED TO MAKING CHANGES, BUT
11:30:44AM THE MORE CHANGES WE MAKE, THE MORE CONVERSATION WE'RE GOING
11:30:46AM TO HAVE ON THE CHANGES.
11:30:48AM US AND FUTURE COUNCIL MEMBERS.
11:30:51AM I DON'T KNOW IF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT NOW UPSTAIRS HAS LEGAL
11:30:54AM AIDES THAT DOES THE RESEARCH.
11:30:56AM I GUESS THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ADDRESSING.
11:30:58AM I'M NOT SURE.
11:30:59AM I WOULD SAY THEY DO IT'S VERY LIMITED.
11:31:02AM CAN I ASK THAT QUESTION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY?
11:31:05AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MAY YOU ASK THAT QUESTION?
11:31:08AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: MAY I.
11:31:09AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:31:10AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: CITY ATTORNEY, CAN YOU ANSWER THAT?
11:31:12AM I REALLY DON'T KNOW.
11:31:17AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I APOLOGIZE.

11:31:18AM CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
11:31:19AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I MADE A STATEMENT WITHOUT KNOWING THE
11:31:21AM ANSWER, WHICH IS PERFECTLY LEGAL WITH ME.
11:31:24AM THAT WAY I'M NOT BIAS.
11:31:26AM WHEN YOU DO YOUR -- YOU HAVE A CASE COME BEFORE YOU, DO YOU
11:31:32AM HAVE AIDES THAT DO YOUR LEGAL RESEARCH OR DO THE ATTORNEYS
11:31:35AM THAT WORK FOR YOU DO IT THEMSELVES?
11:31:37AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I WOULD SAY MOST OF THE ATTORNEYS IN OUR
11:31:40AM OFFICE DO OUR OWN RESEARCH.
11:31:41AM WE HAVE A FEW PARALEGALS ON STAFF, BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM
11:31:46AM MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, AND I THINK MOST OF THE ATTORNEYS
11:31:49AM IN MY OFFICE ARE THAT WAY.
11:31:51AM EVEN IF WE HAVE A LAW CLERK OR A PARALEGAL DO PRELIMINARY
11:31:55AM RESEARCH FOR US, WE ALWAYS FOLLOW UP WITH OUR OWN.
11:32:00AM IT'S OUR NAME THAT GOES ON THE PLEADING.
11:32:02AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WE'RE GOING TO CREATE ANOTHER LEGAL FIRM
11:32:05AM AND HAVE TWO FIRMS AND TWO DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
11:32:08AM WE HAVE TO COME TO SOME COMMONSENSE GROUNDS SO WE CAN LIVE
11:32:12AM TOGETHER.
11:32:12AM THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'VE GOT IN THE WORLD.
11:32:14AM THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'VE GOT IN WASHINGTON.
11:32:16AM AND I DON'T WANT THAT PROBLEM IN TAMPA.
11:32:18AM THANK YOU.
11:32:18AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:32:20AM MR. GUDES.

11:32:21AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: [INAUDIBLE] MR. SHELBY, DOES HE THINK HE
11:32:28AM NEEDS STAFF OR PARALEGAL?
11:32:29AM WE'VE GOT THE THING OF AN ATTORNEY HE MAY BE OUT.
11:32:38AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. SHELBY ASKING FOR AN OPINION ON YOUR
11:32:40AM PART.
11:32:44AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: TO HAVE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL STILL COMES BACK
11:32:49AM TO THE ISSUE OF SEPARATION OF POWERS AND THE ROLE OF THE
11:32:51AM CITY ATTORNEY.
11:32:52AM IN TERMS OF STAFF?
11:32:56AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: DO YOU NEED STAFF?
11:32:57AM DO YOU NEED ANY OF THIS THAT WE'RE ASKING?
11:33:01AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT THAT IN
11:33:04AM THE CHARTER NECESSARILY.
11:33:05AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION.
11:33:06AM MR. VIERA ASKED -- YOU TELL ME, DO YOU NEED HELP, YOU DON'T,
11:33:12AM DO YOU THINK THIS IS VALID?
11:33:13AM THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING.
11:33:15AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IN THE 18 YEARS I'VE BEEN DOING THIS JOB, I
11:33:19AM HAVE NOT HAD THAT HELP, CERTAINLY, THIS COUNCIL IS DIFFERENT
11:33:24AM IN A LOT OF RESPECTS.
11:33:27AM AND IF I DO HAVE ANY CONCERNS, I DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
11:33:32AM BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THEM.
11:33:34AM I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THIS RELEVANT WITH THE TIME CONSTRAINTS
11:33:38AM BEING WHAT THIS IS, WHETHER THIS IS NECESSARY TO BE IN THE
11:33:41AM CHARTER.

11:33:41AM THAT'S MY POSITION.
11:33:42AM YOU'RE ASKING ME A STAFFING QUESTION RIGHT NOW, AND THAT'S
11:33:45AM OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS CHARTER.
11:33:47AM YOU'RE SAYING, OKAY, YOU'RE SAYING NOW DO I NEED TO HAVE THE
11:33:51AM OPPORTUNITY TO HIRE LEGAL HELP IF I NEED IT?
11:33:54AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THERE YOU GO, MR. SHELBY.
11:33:56AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE ANSWER IS NO.
11:33:59AM AS OF RIGHT NOW.
11:34:03AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. MANISCALCO.
11:34:03AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:34:05AM THANK YOU, MR. SHELBY, FOR ANSWERING THAT.
11:34:08AM MY QUESTION IS, WHY DO WE HAVE TO PUT THIS ON THE CHARTER?
11:34:11AM DON'T WE HAVE MONEY WITHIN OUR CITY COUNCIL BUDGET SHOULD WE
11:34:13AM NEED TO HIRE A LEGISLATIVE AIDE OR A LEGAL AIDE OR WHATEVER,
11:34:17AM IF THAT ARISES.
11:34:19AM YOU SAID AT THIS POINT NO, BUT THE MONEY IS THERE TO EXPAND
11:34:25AM IN YOUR DEPARTMENT, IN YOUR CAPACITY, CORRECT?
11:34:28AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WELL, THE ANSWER IS, IF IT'S ADDITIONAL
11:34:31AM STAFF, AT THE END OF SECTION 2.04 IT BRINGS IT UP HOW YOU
11:34:36AM CAN BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
11:34:39AM I REALLY DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS THIS PUBLICLY, BUT I WAS
11:34:42AM THINKING OF HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY WITH
11:34:44AM REGARD TO USE OF A PARALEGAL SHOULD I NEED ONE, BUT I
11:34:50AM HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THAT WITH HER PERSONALLY OR PUBLICLY.
11:34:53AM I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE THAT.

11:34:54AM SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS, YES, IF IT'S A BUDGETARY
11:34:58AM ISSUE, IT COULD BE PUT INTO THE BUDGET.
11:35:01AM YOU CAN ADD THAT POSITION.
11:35:02AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NO FEWER THAN FIVE MEMBERS OF THE CITY
11:35:05AM COUNCIL, CORRECT?
11:35:06AM THANK YOU, SIR.
11:35:09AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THERE WAS A HAND WITH MS. HURTAK BEFORE
11:35:11AM MR. CARLSON.
11:35:13AM YES.
11:35:14AM >>LYNN HURTAK: NEVER MIND.
11:35:19AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON.
11:35:20AM >>BILL CARLSON: ASK A QUESTION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.
11:35:22AM PLEASE.
11:35:32AM >> YES.
11:35:34AM >>BILL CARLSON: IF THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY WANTED TO HIRE
11:35:37AM OUTSIDE COUNCIL OR HIRE HIS OWN STAFF, IN YOUR OPINION IS
11:35:43AM THAT ALLOWED BY THE CHARTER AS IT STANDS NOW?
11:35:46AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: THE CHARTER SAYS THAT YOU CAN HIRE OTHER
11:35:48AM STAFF IN ORDER TO SUPPORT YOUR LEGISLATIVE FUNCTIONS.
11:35:51AM >>BILL CARLSON: IT'S YOUR OPINION THAT HE CAN HIRE OUTSIDE
11:35:54AM COUNSEL.
11:35:55AM IF HE WANTS TO HIRE A LAW FIRM THAT REPORTS TO HIM AND NOT
11:35:59AM TO YOUR DEPARTMENT, HE CAN DO THAT?
11:36:01AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: WELL, IF YOU'RE ASKING THE QUESTION ABOUT
11:36:04AM THE POWER OF THAT OUTSIDE OPINION, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT

11:36:08AM MARTY WAS GETTING TO EARLIER, THE CHARTER STILL SAYS THAT
11:36:11AM THE CITY ATTORNEY IS THE FINAL LEGAL OPINION OF THE CITY AS
11:36:16AM A WHOLE.
11:36:17AM SO IF, FOR EXAMPLE, MR. SHELBY WANTED TO HIRE OUTSIDE
11:36:23AM COUNSEL TO HELP HIM WITH AN ISSUE THAT HE WASN'T COMFORTABLE
11:36:26AM OPINING ON, HE COULD, BUT IT WOULD STILL ULTIMATELY BE UP TO
11:36:30AM OUR OFFICE TO DETERMINE WHETHER THAT IS THE POSITION OF THE
11:36:32AM CITY OF TAMPA.
11:36:33AM >>BILL CARLSON: IF WE PUT IN THE BUDGET, HIRING STAFF OR
11:36:37AM HIRING OUTSIDE COUNSEL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO OBJECT.
11:36:39AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I BELIEVE IT'S ALREADY IN THE CHARTER.
11:36:41AM THE CHARTER SAYS YOU CAN HIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF WITH FIVE
11:36:44AM VOTES IN ORDER TO ASSIST YOU AND YOUR LEGISLATIVE FUNCTIONS.
11:36:48AM >>BILL CARLSON: AS FAR AS I REMEMBER AND HAVE TO GO BACK AND
11:36:50AM LOOK AT IT, AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS SAID, NO, THEY
11:36:53AM HAVE TO BE HIRED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THEN THEY CAN WORK
11:36:56AM WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:36:56AM BUT THE REASON PUT THIS IN THERE IS SO NO CITY ATTORNEY CAN
11:37:00AM INTERPRET THE CHARTER, FOLLOWING THAT NARROW LINE THAT SAYS
11:37:03AM THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS THE LAST WORD, FORMER CITY
11:37:07AM ATTORNEY'S, JUSTIFY WE CANNOT HIRE STAFF FOR THE CITY
11:37:12AM COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:37:13AM YOU JUST SAID ON THE RECORD THAT'S NOT TRUE.
11:37:16AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I'M SAYING IT DEPENDS -- IF THE PURPOSE OF
11:37:18AM GETTING THE OUTSIDE COUNSEL IS TO ARRIVE AT A FINAL DECISION

11:37:21AM OF THE CITY THEN NO BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THAT'S OUR OFFICE.
11:37:25AM IF THE PURPOSE OF GETTING OUTSIDE COUNSEL IS JUST TO GET
11:37:28AM ANOTHER OBJECTIVE OPINION WHICH CAN THEN BE REVIEWED BY THE
11:37:33AM CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT AND NO
11:37:37AM REASON I SHOULD.
11:37:38AM >>BILL CARLSON: LIKE THE SITUATION YEARS AGO AROUND THE CRB
11:37:41AM WHEN THE FORMER MAYOR SAID I ALONE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SET UP
11:37:45AM THE CRB AND CITY COUNCIL SAID NO.
11:37:48AM FORMER CITY ATTORNEY, ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS HIRED AN
11:37:52AM OUTSIDE ATTORNEY, VERY WELL-RESPECTED BUT CAME BACK WITH AN
11:37:55AM OPINION THAT SUPPORTED WHAT THAT MAYOR SAID, THE CITY
11:37:57AM COUNCIL MEMBERS I KNEW OBJECTED TO THAT, DIDN'T AGREE WITH
11:38:00AM THAT.
11:38:00AM IF THAT HAPPENED NOW, THEN WE COULD HIRE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL
11:38:04AM THAT WOULD ALSO GIVE CITY COUNCIL AN INDEPENDENT REVIEW JUST
11:38:07AM LIKE THE MAYOR IS ABLE TO GO THROUGH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S
11:38:11AM OFFICE TO GET OUTSIDE REVIEW, CORRECT?
11:38:13AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GWYNNE YOUNG
11:38:16AM OPINION, WHICH I HAVE A COPY OF --
11:38:18AM >>BILL CARLSON: I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO SPECIFICS.
11:38:20AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: -- THAT WASN'T ABOUT THE CREATION -- I
11:38:21AM MEAN, IT AROSE DURING THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CREATION OF
11:38:24AM THE CRB.
11:38:25AM BUT ULTIMATELY SHE WAS OPINING ON WHETHER THERE WAS A
11:38:29AM CONFLICT BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR AND WHAT THE ROLE

11:38:34AM OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS.
11:38:35AM AND I AGREE WITH HER OPINION.
11:38:37AM I'M HAPPY TO SHARE IT WITH ALL OF YOU.
11:38:40AM AS I SAID, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER THE OUTSIDE
11:38:43AM COUNSEL WAS HIRED BY MY OFFICE OR BY MARTY OR IF YOU WANT TO
11:38:47AM HAVE ONE OF YOUR ATTORNEYS WRITE AN OPINION, ULTIMATELY I
11:38:51AM STILL HAVE TO REVIEW IT, CONSIDER IT, AND DETERMINE WHAT IS
11:38:55AM THE FINAL OPINION OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.
11:38:58AM >>BILL CARLSON: ANOTHER EXAMPLE, THE FORMER CITY ATTORNEY
11:39:02AM SAID THAT ONLY THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS THE RIGHT TO SIGN
11:39:07AM CONTRACTS FOR SETTLEMENTS AND PAY THOSE.
11:39:13AM AND SO IF WE DISAGREE WITH THAT AND CITY ATTORNEY HIRES AN
11:39:16AM OUTSIDE COUNSEL, FORMER BAR PRESIDENT TO OPINE ON THAT, IS
11:39:21AM MARTY ALLOWED TO HIRE A FORMER BAR PRESIDENT TO OPINE ON IT
11:39:25AM ALSO AND THEN WE CAN GET BOTH FORMER BAR PRESIDENTS TO STAND
11:39:28AM UP AND SAY WHAT THEIR OPINIONS ARE?
11:39:29AM IF THEY DISAGREE, SURE, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OPINION IS THE
11:39:33AM FINAL OPINION, BUT WE WILL THEN HAVE EQUALLY PRESTIGIOUS
11:39:36AM PERSON WHO MAY DISAGREE WITH THE PERSON THE CITY ATTORNEY
11:39:39AM BRINGS FORWARD.
11:39:39AM BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S OKAY BY THE CHARTER NOW THAT THE CITY
11:39:42AM COUNCIL ATTORNEY COULD HIRE THAT PERSON.
11:39:45AM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: THE CITY COUNCIL CAN HIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF
11:39:48AM TO ASSIST IT IN ITS LEGISLATIVE FUNCTIONS WITH FIVE VOTES.
11:39:52AM IF THAT STAFF IS USED TO HIRE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO PROVIDE

11:39:58AM AN OPINION, THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CHARTER THAT WOULD
11:40:00AM PREVENT THAT.
11:40:00AM BUT AGAIN, AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S ULTIMATELY MY
11:40:06AM DETERMINATION WHETHER THAT IS THE FINAL LEGAL OPINION OF THE
11:40:08AM CITY OF TAMPA.
11:40:08AM >>BILL CARLSON: SO TO MY COLLEAGUES, WE HAVE THIS CITY
11:40:11AM ATTORNEY ON THE RECORD.
11:40:12AM WE KNOW SHE'S DIFFERENT.
11:40:14AM WE'RE NOT CRITICIZING HER FOR PAST MISTAKES OF CITY
11:40:17AM ATTORNEYS, BUT WE HAVE HER ON THE RECORD SAYING WE CAN DO
11:40:21AM THIS.
11:40:22AM HOWEVER, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, HEARD OTHER CITY ATTORNEYS
11:40:25AM OPINE DIFFERENTLY.
11:40:27AM SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE PASS THIS BECAUSE IT'S BETTER
11:40:31AM TO HAVE IT CLEAR IN THE CHARTER RATHER THAN HAVE ANY
11:40:33AM AMBIGUITY THAT COULD BE DISPUTED BY SOME FUTURE CITY
11:40:36AM ATTORNEY.
11:40:38AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON, IF I MAY PARAPHRASE WHAT I
11:40:41AM HEARD BASED ON THIS DISCUSSION JUST SO THERE IS CLARITY IS
11:40:45AM WORDS MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
11:40:47AM MEANING BECAUSE SOMEBODY INHABITS A PARTICULAR OFFICE, THAT
11:40:51AM PERSON MAY CHANGE.
11:40:53AM YOU WANT IT STATED SUCH THAT NO MATTER WHO IS SERVING IN
11:40:56AM THAT POSITION THAT THE OPINION IS CLEAR OF WHAT THE CITY
11:41:01AM COUNCIL ATTORNEY MAY DO.

11:41:03AM >>BILL CARLSON: WE'LL PROBABLY GO THROUGH THIS ON EVERY ONE
11:41:06AM OF THESE.
11:41:06AM WHAT'S HAPPENED IS EVERYTHING -- MY STYLE IS TO TRY TO
11:41:10AM DISCUSS IN PRIVATE AND HAVE PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS WITH
11:41:13AM EVERYBODY AND THEN I'M TOLD NO, NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT.
11:41:16AM CHARTER PREVENTS IT.
11:41:17AM CHARTER PREVENTS IT.
11:41:19AM IF WE TRY TO BRING IT UP PUBLICLY BECAUSE WE GOT TOLD NO,
11:41:22AM THEN A CITY ATTORNEY WILL JUMP BEFORE US AND SAY YOU'RE
11:41:26AM TRYING TO USURP THE STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
11:41:28AM I'LL SAY IT SAYS RIGHT HERE IN THE CHARTER, HERE'S WHAT IT
11:41:29AM SAYS, AND THEY'LL DISAGREE WITH US.
11:41:31AM WHAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE OF IS THAT CITY COUNCIL HAS
11:41:35AM OBJECTIVE OPINIONS AND OBJECTIVE ADVICE.
11:41:37AM THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE ONLY PERSON WHO REPORTS
11:41:39AM TO US BESIDES OUR AIDES IS THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:41:43AM IF THAT PERSON IS NOT ABLE TO GET OBJECTIVE ADVICE FOR US,
11:41:47AM THEN WE RELY ON THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHICH IN THE PAST
11:41:51AM I THINK HAS NOT ALWAYS REPRESENTED CITY COUNCIL.
11:41:53AM WHICH, BY THE WAY, THE CHARTER CLEARLY SAYS THAT THE CITY
11:41:55AM ATTORNEY DOES REPRESENT CITY COUNCIL NOT ONLY COLLECTIVELY
11:41:59AM BUT INDIVIDUALLY.
11:42:00AM WE NEED TO STOP SAYING THAT IT DOESN'T.
11:42:04AM THANK YOU.
11:42:04AM I WOULD SUGGEST WE CALL THIS FOR A VOTE AND KEEP MOVING.

11:42:09AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:42:09AM DO WE HAVE A MOTION OF EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT THAT TO BE?
11:42:14AM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE ASK THE CITY
11:42:21AM ATTORNEY'S OUTSIDE ATTORNEY TO COME BACK ON THE DATE THAT WE
11:42:29AM WILL AGREE ON AS TO THE FIRST READING WITH A NEW -- AN
11:42:29AM EDITED VERSION OF THE FOLLOWING, A NEW SECTION 2.04-B-3,
11:42:33AM QUOTE, HIRE LEGAL STAFF OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL AS APPROVED BY
11:42:38AM CITY COUNCIL.
11:42:39AM AGAIN, THIS IS DEFINING THE ROLE OF A CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
11:42:43AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, SIR.
11:42:44AM SECOND?
11:42:46AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I JUST WANT TO SAY --
11:42:49AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK RAISED HER HAND.
11:42:50AM >>LYNN HURTAK: I'LL SECOND.
11:42:52AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MAY WE HAVE A VOTE?
11:42:54AM WE'LL VOTE.
11:42:59AM IN ORDER TO PASS WE NEED FOUR.
11:43:01AM WE HAVE THREE.
11:43:01AM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, AND I'M SORRY -- DO IT
11:43:06AM AGAIN.
11:43:06AM I SAW A THIRD HAND.
11:43:08AM MR. GUDES.
11:43:10AM THANK YOU.
11:43:10AM IT DID NOT PASS.
11:43:14AM >>BILL CARLSON: JUST REMEMBER TO MY COLLEAGUES, THE PUBLIC

11:43:16AM IS GOING TO REELECT YOU, NOT THE MAYOR.
11:43:18AM THE PUBLIC WANTS US TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT.
11:43:22AM IF THIS MAYOR DOES NOT WANT TO PROVIDE TRANSPARENCY AND
11:43:25AM ACCOUNTABILITY, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WE'LL GET IT FOR THE
11:43:28AM PUBLIC.
11:43:28AM WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS ADMINISTRATION TO CONTINUE TO
11:43:30AM RUN OVER CITY COUNCIL AND TO SET UP CITY COUNCIL TO GET SUED
11:43:34AM AND THROWN OUT OF OFFICE.
11:43:36AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, SIR.
11:43:37AM MR. MIRANDA HAD HIS HAND AND THEN MR. VIERA.
11:43:41AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME SAY THAT'S WHAT ELECTIONS ARE FOR.
11:43:44AM SOMEONE GET ELECTED WHETHER ANYONE ON THE BOARD OR NOT.
11:43:47AM AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY OF DOING IT.
11:43:49AM HOWEVER, THAT BEING SAID, IT'S REALLY SAD WHEN YOU HAVE TO
11:43:55AM BRING UP AN ELECTION DURING A BUDGET HEARING, NOT A BUDGET
11:43:59AM HEARING, BUT A REVIEW OF THE CHARTER, AND THERE'S NOTHING TO
11:44:04AM FEAR IN AN ELECTION.
11:44:06AM YOU SEE SOMEONE WINS AND NOBODY LOSES.
11:44:12AM SOMEBODY JUST DOESN'T GET ENOUGH VOTES.
11:44:14AM AND THAT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THINGS AT LIFE.
11:44:17AM WHEN I SIT HERE AND LISTEN TO THIS, $1.9 BILLION COMPANY AND
11:44:25AM YET AS MUCH MONEY AS IT SOUNDS, THOSE BUDGETS ARE VERY
11:44:29AM TIGHT.
11:44:30AM OUT OF ALL THE AD VALOREM MONEY WE COLLECT, ALL OF IT,
11:44:33AM DOESN'T PAY FOR THE POLICE AND FIRE.

11:44:35AM IN FACT, ABOUT $26 MILLION SHORT.
11:44:38AM SO WHEN I LOOK AT THESE THINGS, IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT WE
11:44:45AM UNDERSTAND THAT THE PUBLIC'S MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT WISELY.
11:44:50AM I HAVE NO EVIDENCE FROM THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, HE SAID
11:44:52AM NO WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE NEEDED ANY MORE HELP.
11:44:56AM WE HAVE TO HAVE CONTINUITY AND YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN EACH
11:45:03AM OTHER AND YOU HAVE TO TRUST EACH OTHER BEFORE YOU TAKE A
11:45:05AM STEP FORWARD.
11:45:06AM IF YOU DON'T, YOU'RE GOING TO FAIL.
11:45:07AM THERE'S WHERE WE'RE AT IN MY OPINION.
11:45:11AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, SIR.
11:45:12AM MR. VIERA.
11:45:15AM >>LUIS VIERA: I WANT TO RESPECTFULLY CAUTION ALL THE CITY
11:45:18AM COUNCILS ABOUT, HOW SHOULD I PUT IT, STRAW MAN, STRAW WOMAN,
11:45:23AM WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, OF THE MAYOR.
11:45:24AM CERTAIN THINGS I AGREE WITH ON THE MAYOR.
11:45:26AM CERTAIN THINGS I DISAGREED WITH THE MAYOR ON.
11:45:29AM I REMEMBER THE ISSUE OF SO-CALLED CRIME-FREE HOUSING PROGRAM
11:45:31AM WAS REQUESTED TO SUPPORT THAT.
11:45:34AM I SAID NO.
11:45:35AM I DO NOT SUPPORT THAT.
11:45:37AM COME OUT VERY STRONGLY AGAINST IT.
11:45:38AM JUST THE WAY IT IS.
11:45:39AM CERTAIN THINGS I AGREE.
11:45:40AM CERTAIN THINGS I DISAGREE.

11:45:41AM WHEN IT COMES TO OUR CHARTER AMENDMENTS, THERE IS ONE I
11:45:44AM COMMITTED TO VOTE FOR WHERE I DISAGREED WITH THE EXECUTIVE
11:45:47AM ON.
11:45:48AM MY VOTES HAVE TO DO WITH -- I'M ONLY SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF
11:45:51AM MYSELF.
11:45:51AM MY VOTES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT I THINK ABOUT THE PROCESS,
11:45:54AM WHAT I THINK ABOUT EACH INDIVIDUAL ISSUE THAT COMES UP.
11:45:56AM IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MAYOR,
11:45:59AM WITH ANYONE ELSE.
11:46:01AM JUST MY OPINION.
11:46:02AM I FIRMLY RESPECT THE HARD WORK, THE ANALYTICAL, THE
11:46:07AM ANALYSIS, ET CETERA, THAT COUNCILMAN CARLSON HAS PUT INTO
11:46:11AM ALL OF THESE.
11:46:11AM I REALLY, REALLY DO, WHICH IS WHY THEY EACH DESERVE SCRUTINY
11:46:15AM AND RATIONALE AS TO HOW YOU VOTE.
11:46:17AM I RESPECT 110%.
11:46:20AM AGAIN, AS FOR ME IN MY HOUSE, THAT'S THE RATIONALE I USE FOR
11:46:24AM EACH VOTE.
11:46:25AM NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYBODY ELSE AS IN THE PAST, ET CETERA.
11:46:27AM JUST MY OPINION.
11:46:28AM THANK YOU, MA'AM.
11:46:29AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:46:30AM SO LET'S DECIDE.
11:46:31AM WE HAVE 2.04 THAT'S BEEN DEALT WITH.
11:46:35AM WHAT ELSE IN SECTION 2 WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO BRING UP FOR

11:46:41AM DISCUSSION?
11:46:41AM AND JUST CALL OUT THE SECTION, PLEASE, IF SO.
11:46:47AM ALL THE WAY UP TO 2.14.
11:46:56AM MR. CARLSON.
11:47:09AM >>BILL CARLSON: NEVER MIND.
11:47:17AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE MOVE TO SECTION 3?
11:47:19AM WE CAN CIRCLE BACK IF NEEDED, BUT DO WE MOVE UP TO SECTION
11:47:25AM 3, CITY CLERK?
11:47:26AM ANYTHING THERE?
11:47:27AM SECTION 4, ARTICLE 4, EXECUTIVE.
11:47:35AM WE'VE GOT 4.01 AND 2.
11:47:39AM 1 IS MAYOR.
11:47:40AM 2 IS ABSENCE AND SUCCESSION.
11:47:43AM PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON
11:47:50AM SECTION 4.
11:47:52AM MS. HURTAK.
11:47:56AM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
11:47:57AM SEPARATION OF POWERS IN 4.0.1, TO DISCUSS THE DIFFERENCE.
11:48:18AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SECTION 1, 4.011 THAT READS THE
11:48:23AM ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF ALL LAWS, IS THAT THE LINE
11:48:26AM YOU'RE REFERRING TO?
11:48:28AM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
11:48:29AM AND TO ADD I GUESS TO NUMBER 12, AS NUMBER 12, RATHER, AN
11:48:45AM EXECUTIVE ORDER IN CONFLICT WITH LAW OR ORDINANCE SHALL BE
11:48:48AM VOID.

11:48:49AM I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH --
11:48:52AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: LET'S GIVE THAT A MOMENT FOR THE NOTE
11:48:55AM TAKER AND GET THAT UP HERE.
11:48:56AM COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN?
11:48:58AM >>LYNN HURTAK: AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IN CONFLICT WITH LAW OR
11:49:01AM ORDINANCE SHOULD BE VOID -- SHALL BE VOID.
11:49:09AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THIS WAS ALSO THE EXAMPLE OF CURATIVE
11:49:11AM LANGUAGE THAT MR. SHELBY GAVE IN HIS DOCUMENT.
11:49:13AM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
11:49:20AM >> GOT IT.
11:49:20AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DISCUSSION ON THIS PLEASE.
11:49:23AM SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO MODIFY.
11:49:25AM YES, MR. CITRO.
11:49:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO: ARE YOU REFERRING TO ALL CITY LAWS?
11:49:32AM TALKING TO STATE LAWS ALSO?
11:49:34AM >>LYNN HURTAK: CITY LAWS IN CONFLICT WITH LAW OR ORDINANCE.
11:49:37AM WITH CITY LAWS.
11:49:40AM WITH OUR CHARTER AND OUR ORDINANCES AND OUR LAWS.
11:49:49AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'M SORRY.
11:49:50AM I DON'T UNDERSTAND EXACTLY THE PREFERENCE OF IT.
11:49:53AM TELL ME AGAIN WHAT THAT IS?
11:49:58AM DID YOU GET THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS?
11:50:07AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THAT'S FINE THAT YOU RAISED IT.
11:50:10AM YOU'RE RAISING IT TO SOMEONE TO PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT FURTHER
11:50:14AM TO YOU.

11:50:15AM YES, SIR.
11:50:15AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I CAN.
11:50:18AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. SHELBY, YES.
11:50:20AM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THIS GOES BACK TO SEPARATION OF POWERS AND
11:50:23AM THIS GOES BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THE ABILITY OF HOME RULE
11:50:28AM AUTHORITY OF CITY COUNCIL.
11:50:29AM THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER DISCUSSION, FRANKLY.
11:50:31AM ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT CAME UP AND WAS RAISED, DOES AN
11:50:37AM EXECUTIVE ORDER PREEMPT -- PREEMPT THE CITY COUNCIL FROM
11:50:43AM SUBJECT MATTER TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD BE
11:50:49AM REFLECTIVE OF THE PUBLIC POLICY THAT WAS IN THE FORM OF LAW.
11:50:54AM ACTUALLY THIS GOES BACK TO 2015 CRB.
11:50:58AM AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT CITY COUNCIL WAS CONTEMPLATING
11:51:03AM DOING AN ORDINANCE.
11:51:04AM THE MAYOR EXECUTED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER AND THE MAYOR WAS
11:51:07AM QUOTED IN THE NEWSPAPER SAYING THAT CITY COUNCIL NO LONGER
11:51:09AM HAD JURISDICTION, WORDS TO THAT EFFECT, BECAUSE IT COULD NOT
11:51:12AM HAVE AN ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT WAS THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AND IT
11:51:14AM WAS NOT SUBJECT TO CITY COUNCIL GETTING INVOLVED IN THAT.
11:51:18AM THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THAT.
11:51:20AM SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE ROLE UNDER HOME RULE OF CITY
11:51:24AM COUNCIL THAT GOES BACK TO THE SEPARATION OF POWERS ISSUE?
11:51:26AM AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT THAT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER
11:51:37AM HAS THE SAME WEIGHT AS LAW BECAUSE ONE IS LEGISLATIVE AND
11:51:41AM ONE IS EXECUTIVE.

11:51:42AM AND THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS THAT THIS
11:51:46AM COUNCIL, THIS PARTICULAR COUNCIL HAS HAD ABOUT THE
11:51:50AM AUTHORITY, AND THAT WAS RAISED I GUESS BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON
11:51:53AM MOST RECENTLY WITH THE NAMING AUTHORITY.
11:51:58AM IT'S THE KIND OF QUESTION THAT -- IT'S AN OVERARCHING
11:52:02AM QUESTION, AND IF IT IS A FORM OF GOVERNMENT, CERTAINLY WITH
11:52:05AM A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT IT'S A PUBLIC POLICY
11:52:08AM QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THE COUNCIL WANTS TO GIVE GREATER
11:52:12AM WEIGHT TO LAW TO BE ABLE TO OVERRIDE PERHAPS AN EXECUTIVE
11:52:15AM ORDER.
11:52:15AM THAT'S WHAT GOES BACK TO WHAT MR. MIRANDA SAID.
11:52:18AM THE MAYOR'S REMEDY TO THAT IS A VOTE OF FIVE.
11:52:21AM EXCUSE ME, THE COUNCIL'S REMEDY TO A MAYORAL VETO IS A VOTE
11:52:25AM OF FIVE.
11:52:26AM WHEREAS IF COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO HAVE AN
11:52:29AM ORDINANCE, THEN THAT DOESN'T EVEN APPLY.
11:52:32AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:52:32AM MR. MIRANDA, DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?
11:52:36AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME RESPOND TO IT.
11:52:38AM SEVEN YEARS AGO, SOME MAYOR, I GUESS IT WAS THE PREVIOUS
11:52:41AM MAYOR, MADE A STATEMENT TO THE NEWSPAPER.
11:52:44AM WHETHER IT'S CORRECT OR NOT CORRECT, I DON'T KNOW.
11:52:47AM I DIDN'T MAKE THE STATEMENT.
11:52:48AM THE CITY ATTORNEY AT THAT POINT IS THE ONE THAT SAYS WHO IS
11:52:54AM RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG.

11:52:56AM DID IT EVER GET TO THE CITY ATTORNEY?
11:52:58AM I DON'T KNOW.
11:52:59AM I DON'T KNOW.
11:53:02AM I DON'T RECALL THAT DEBATE.
11:53:05AM I KNOW AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FORMATION, THERE WAS SOME
11:53:09AM CONVERSATION INTO WHO WOULD APPOINT THE BOARD AND HOW MANY
11:53:14AM INDIVIDUALS WERE GOING TO BE ON THE BOARD.
11:53:16AM AND WE SAID -- WHERE IT WAS AT THE END VERY EQUITABLE AND
11:53:22AM EVERYBODY AGREED TO IT.
11:53:23AM AND THAT'S HOW THE BOARD WAS FORMED.
11:53:25AM THAT DOESN'T MEAN AT THE BEGINNING THERE WAS NOT A TUGGLE
11:53:29AM BETWEEN DIFFERENCE OF BALANCES, AND THAT'S WHAT THAT COURT
11:53:32AM LAW DOES THAT LADY HOLDING THE TWO SIDES.
11:53:36AM WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG DOESN'T MATTER.
11:53:39AM IT'S THE RESULTS THAT REALLY MATTER.
11:53:42AM LOOKING AT IT FOR SUBSTANCE?
11:53:43AM ARE WE LOOKING AT IT FOR WHATEVER REASON?
11:53:46AM IF THAT MAYOR MADE THAT, SO HE MADE SOME NEWS.
11:53:52AM WHETHER IT WAS GOOD OR NOT, YOU'VE GOT TO ASK HIM.
11:53:56AM THAT'S ALL.
11:53:57AM THANK YOU.
11:53:57AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:53:58AM MR. GUDES.
11:53:58AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I'M CONFUSED.
11:54:00AM I DON'T SEE HOW AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WOULD OVERRIDE AN

11:54:02AM ORDINANCE OR LAW WHEN THE BOOK CLEARLY STATES IN THE CHARTER
11:54:06AM THAT CITY COUNCIL SETS LEGISLATION FOR THE CITY AND IT'S THE
11:54:12AM JOB OF THE MAYOR IS TO CARRY OUT THE ORDERS OF CITY COUNCIL
11:54:17AM FOR LEGISLATIVE BODY.
11:54:19AM SO I DON'T KNOW HOW AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WOULD OVERTURN AN
11:54:26AM ORDINANCE OR LAW THAT THIS COUNCIL PUTS IN.
11:54:28AM I DO SEE THE PART OF PUTTING THE LANGUAGE IN SO IT'S CLEAR
11:54:32AM THAT AN EXECUTIVE ORDER CANNOT BE IN CONFLICT WITH AN
11:54:35AM ORDINANCE OR LEGISLATIVE LAW BY THIS COUNCIL.
11:54:40AM I COULD SUPPORT THAT TODAY BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE RIGHT.
11:54:42AM AN EXECUTIVE ORDER CANNOT BE IN CONFLICT WITH AN ORDINANCE
11:54:45AM FROM THIS COUNCIL PER WHAT THE CHARTER ALREADY SAYS, THAT WE
11:54:48AM SET THE TONE AND THE RULES FOR LAW.
11:54:50AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: CLARIFYING EXACTLY WHAT THE CURATIVE
11:54:52AM LANGUAGE HAD OFFERED, THAT IN CONFLICT SEEMS TO BE THE
11:54:56AM CRITICAL PHRASE IN THAT PIECE.
11:55:00AM MR. CARLSON.
11:55:01AM >>BILL CARLSON: TWO QUICK EXAMPLES.
11:55:02AM THE EXAMPLE THE CRB, THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THE CRB IS THAT
11:55:07AM FOLKS IN THE ROOM AND OTHERS THAT AREN'T TRIED TO CREATE THE
11:55:10AM CRB IN A CERTAIN WAY BACK IN 2015.
11:55:12AM THE LAST MAYOR DISAGREED.
11:55:14AM SO HE PASSED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER.
11:55:15AM AND THEN THOSE OF YOU ON COUNCIL KNOW CITY COUNCIL THEN,
11:55:19AM THERE WAS THIS WHOLE FIGHT WHERE THE CITY ATTORNEY GOT

11:55:22AM INVOLVED.
11:55:22AM HIRED OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
11:55:24AM CITY COUNCIL PASSED AN ORDINANCE ANYWAY AND THERE WAS KIND
11:55:27AM OF A COMPROMISE OF HAVING BOTH OF THOSE, BUT THAT WAS NEVER
11:55:30AM TESTED AS TO WHICH ONE WOULD STAND.
11:55:32AM AND THEN WHEN WE RE-DID THE CRB WITH THE PICTURE THAT
11:55:36AM MR. BENNETT SHOWED, SUPPOSEDLY THE OLD EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS
11:55:41AM SUPERSEDED.
11:55:42AM THAT WAS PART OF THE DEAL, AND THEN THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER
11:55:46AM WAS THERE.
11:55:46AM BUT LET'S SAY THE NAMING PROCESS, NAMING OF BUILDINGS, I'M
11:55:52AM USING THIS AS A SIMPLE EXAMPLE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BRING IN A
11:55:55AM LOT OF OTHER ISSUES, A VERY SIMPLE THING, THE NEW PROCESS
11:55:58AM WAS PUT IN PLACE BY EXECUTIVE ORDER.
11:56:00AM THERE ARE WHEREAS CLAUSES IN THERE THAT SAY THAT ONLY THE
11:56:03AM MAYOR HAS THE RIGHT TO NAME BUILDINGS.
11:56:05AM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT AGREES WITH THAT.
11:56:07AM SO IF WE PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO NAME
11:56:10AM SOMETHING OR IF WE PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS ONLY CITY
11:56:13AM COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT TO NAME BUILDINGS, THEN WE'RE GOING TO
11:56:16AM HAVE A LEGAL TEST.
11:56:18AM THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT WE NEEDED A CONFLICT RESOLUTION CLAUSE
11:56:21AM BECAUSE IF THE CITY ATTORNEY DISAGREES AND SAYS THAT THE
11:56:26AM MAYOR'S EXECUTIVE ORDER SUPERSEDES THE CITY COUNCIL'S
11:56:29AM ORDINANCE, THEN WE HAVE A CONFLICT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LEGAL

11:56:32AM OPINION THAT DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE WAY WE READ THE CHARTER.
11:56:35AM ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO CLARIFY THIS I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF.
11:56:39AM AND IF THERE'S NOT A SECOND, I'LL SECOND.
11:56:41AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
11:56:42AM NOTICING THE TIME, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO HAVE A
11:56:45AM MOTION ON THIS AND HAVE A VOTE?
11:56:47AM DO WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION?
11:56:49AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I THINK IT'S CLEAR.
11:56:51AM THE CHARTER SAYS NO EXECUTIVE ORDER WILL BE IN CONFLICT WITH
11:56:56AM LEGISLATIVE BODY.
11:56:58AM LEGISLATIVE BODY PUT IN THE ORDINANCE IT IS THE MAYOR'S JOB
11:57:00AM TO CARRY OUT THAT LEGISLATIVE DUTY.
11:57:01AM THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR.
11:57:10AM [INAUDIBLE]
11:57:10AM I MAKE THE MOTION.
11:57:12AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, SIR.
11:57:19AM >> SECOND.
11:57:21AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MAY WE HAVE A VOTE?
11:57:24AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: SPEAK ON IT.
11:57:30AM >> [INAUDIBLE]
11:57:32AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:57:33AM I WAS HERE IN 2015 WHEN THE ISSUE CAME UP REGARDING THE
11:57:35AM CREATION OF THE CRB.
11:57:37AM FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THE OPINION FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY AT
11:57:39AM THE TIME WAS INCORRECT IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THING.

11:57:42AM I DISAGREE WITH.
11:57:44AM I THINK ORDINANCE SHOWS EXISTING ORDINANCE.
11:57:47AM AND I ASKED THIS QUESTION I THINK OF THE CITY COUNCIL
11:57:49AM ATTORNEY SEVEN YEARS AGO THAT CITY COUNCIL HAD THE AUTHORITY
11:57:53AM TO DO THAT.
11:57:53AM IT'S CLEAR IN THE CHARTER.
11:57:54AM IT'S CLEAR FROM -- I'M NOT GOING TO CITE THE ORDINANCE, BUT
11:57:57AM THE INFORMATION IS THERE.
11:58:01AM THAT DIDN'T GO TO A FURTHER DISCUSSION BECAUSE A SETTLEMENT
11:58:03AM WAS REACHED WITH THAT MAYOR.
11:58:04AM HOW DO I KNOW THAT?
11:58:05AM BECAUSE I TRIED TO WORK IT OUT WITH HIM AND WE ENDED UP
11:58:11AM MOVING FORWARD WITHOUT ESCALATING IT TO A BIGGER ISSUE.
11:58:14AM HOWEVER, IT'S ALREADY EXISTING IN THE CHARTER.
11:58:17AM SOMEBODY DECIDED TO INTERPRET IT THEIR WAY.
11:58:21AM I CAN READ.
11:58:22AM I EVEN HAVE AN ENGLISH DEGREE ON THE WALL IN MY OFFICE THAT
11:58:27AM SHOWS IT.
11:58:28AM WHATEVER.
11:58:28AM BUT I HAVE INTERPRETED IT CORRECTLY BACK THEN.
11:58:33AM IT'S CLEAR.
11:58:34AM SOMEONE GAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION IN 2015 THAT I STILL
11:58:37AM DISAGREE WITH.
11:58:38AM BUT I DON'T SEE THE NECESSITY IN HAVING TO CHANGE THAT.
11:58:41AM MYSELF, I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, AN ATTORNEY, ANYBODY ELSE COULD

11:58:45AM CLEARLY INTERPRET IT IF THEY READ THAT.
11:58:47AM WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY UNDER ORDINANCE, WHICH IS THE EXISTING
11:58:49AM LAW, THAT WE CAN CREATE THESE BOARDS AND WHATNOT.
11:58:52AM SO IN THAT CASE, WE DISAGREED, BUT ALREADY CLEARLY STATED IN
11:58:57AM THE CHARTER.
11:58:57AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THERE'S NO NEED, AS YOU'RE STATING, TO
11:59:00AM HAVE THIS MODIFICATION.
11:59:01AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: EXACTLY.
11:59:02AM YES.
11:59:03AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. VIERA, DID YOU ALSO HAVE A 20-SECOND
11:59:05AM COMMENT?
11:59:06AM >>LUIS VIERA: 20 SECONDS.
11:59:07AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:59:08AM AGAIN IT APPEARS TO ALREADY -- IT'S ALMOST LIKE A
11:59:10AM RESTATEMENT OF FACT OR A RESTATEMENT OF ALREADY SOMETHING
11:59:12AM THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE CHARTER AND OUR PRESENT LAW.
11:59:15AM THEREFORE, IT MAKES IT UNNECESSARY.
11:59:17AM IT'S NOT A HURDLE.
11:59:19AM I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES OF IT.
11:59:23AM I HAVEN'T SEEN THE CASE PRESENTED ON WHY A RESTATEMENT OF
11:59:26AM PRESENT CHARTER LANGUAGE IN EFFECT SHOULD BE INCORPORATED.
11:59:30AM THAT'S MY QUESTION.
11:59:31AM AND THAT'S IT.
11:59:32AM THANK YOU, MA'AM.
11:59:32AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WOULD YOU PLEASE READ WHAT THE CURRENT

11:59:34AM LANGUAGE IS?
11:59:35AM CAN YOU LOCATE THAT?
11:59:36AM CAN SOMEBODY LOCATE THAT?
11:59:38AM >>ORLANDO GUDES: CAN I MAKE A STATEMENT ON THAT, MA'AM?
11:59:40AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: ONE SECOND.
11:59:41AM DOES ANYBODY HAVE THAT CURRENT LANGUAGE THAT YOU SAID IS
11:59:45AM ALREADY IN THERE?
11:59:47AM >>LUIS VIERA: WELL, IN OTHER WORDS -- MAY I?
11:59:49AM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
11:59:50AM >>LUIS VIERA: IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT
11:59:51AM ALREADY AN EXECUTIVE ORDER DOES NOT OVERRIDE AN ORDINANCE.
11:59:54AM THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY UNDERSTANDING.
11:59:56AM IN OTHER WORDS, MY QUESTION, IF I MAY IS, WHY IS THIS
12:00:00PM NECESSARY?
12:00:01PM SOMETHING THAT IS A RESTATEMENT ALREADY OF OUR REALITY.
12:00:05PM THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT I'M POSING.
12:00:06PM I'M POSING IT AS A QUESTION FOR FOLKS FOR PURPOSES OF MY
12:00:10PM VOTE.
12:00:10PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, I HEAR YOUR QUESTION.
12:00:12PM MR. GUDES.
12:00:12PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME FRAME WE'RE IN.
12:00:15PM I REALLY DON'T.
12:00:15PM IT'S BEEN STATED.
12:00:16PM BUT MR. MANISCALCO SAID, THERE WAS AN ISSUE.
12:00:19PM YOU MIGHT HAVE WORKED IT OUT, BUT IT WASN'T CLEAR TO OTHERS

12:00:23PM WHO MAY HAVE A GREAT ENGLISH DEGREE THAT YOU HAVE TO
12:00:26PM UNDERSTAND.
12:00:27PM AND TO MR. VIERA TO SAY, I MEAN, IT'S HERE.
12:00:32PM I COULD READ IT ALL DAY LONG.
12:00:33PM OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S BEEN CONFLICT.
12:00:35PM SO HOW DO YOU RESOLVE CONFLICT?
12:00:36PM YOU MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE SO
12:00:40PM THEY NEVER HAVE THIS ISSUE AGAIN.
12:00:42PM SO IF IT'S IN SECTION 4.01, THAT AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IN
12:00:45PM CONFLICT WITH LAW OR ORDINANCE SHALL BE VOIDED, I DON'T SEE
12:00:49PM THE BIG ISSUE OF PUTTING THAT IN NUMBER 4.01, IT'S NUMBER
12:00:53PM 12.
12:00:53PM IT STATES THAT AGAIN IN THE CHARTER AGAIN, BUT I THINK IT
12:00:56PM NEEDS TO BE THERE.
12:00:57PM SO THERE'S NO MISINTERPRETATION OF THAT RULE.
12:01:00PM SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND -- I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND TODAY WHAT
12:01:04PM WE'RE DOING HERE.
12:01:05PM I JUST DON'T.
12:01:06PM AND TO ME, I DON'T WANT TO SAY WE'RE POLITICAL.
12:01:09PM SOME OF THE STUFF IS COMMON SENSE TO ME, ESPECIALLY 4.01,
12:01:13PM YES, IT'S DOWN FURTHER IN THE CHARTER, BUT I THINK IT NEEDS
12:01:16PM TO BE IN THE MAYOR'S SECTION THAT EXECUTIVE ORDER IN
12:01:18PM CONFLICT WITH LAW AND ORDINANCE SHOULD BE VOID.
12:01:24PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: IF I MIGHT PARAPHRASE, YOU'RE SAYING IF
12:01:26PM THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR MISUNDERSTANDING, WHY DO WE NOT GO

12:01:29PM AHEAD AND SUGGEST THAT THIS BE ADDED?
12:01:32PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: CORRECT.
12:01:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE HAD A MOTION ON THE TABLE.
12:01:36PM IT WAS SECONDED.
12:01:37PM DO YOU WANT TO VOTE ON THIS THAT WE --
12:01:42PM >>BILL CARLSON: A PRIOR CITY ATTORNEY --
12:01:45PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON, YES.
12:01:46PM >>BILL CARLSON: JUST LIKE THE EXAMPLE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER
12:01:49PM MANISCALCO GAVE, THERE ARE MANY INTERPRETATIONS BY THE CITY
12:01:53PM ATTORNEY THAT HAVEN'T BEEN CORRECT.
12:01:55PM AND SO WE NEED, EVEN IF IT'S REDUNDANT, WE NEED TO CLARIFY
12:01:59PM IT SO THAT FUTURE CITY ATTORNEYS KNOW CLEARLY WHAT THE
12:02:03PM CHARTER SAYS.
12:02:04PM WE HAD A CITY ATTORNEY COME TO US WHEN WE STARTED TALKING
12:02:05PM ABOUT THE CRB A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND SAID CITY COUNCIL
12:02:08PM CANNOT DELEGATE SUBPOENA POWER BECAUSE CITY COUNCIL DOESN'T
12:02:12PM HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.
12:02:13PM I WILL READ SECTION -- IT'S SHORT -- SECTION 2.14
12:02:16PM INVESTIGATIONS.
12:02:17PM IN THE EXERCISE OF ITS LEGISLATIVE POWERS, THIS COUNCIL OR
12:02:21PM ANY SPECIAL COMMITTEE THEREOF SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO
12:02:24PM CONDUCT SUCH INVESTIGATIONS AND HOLD SUCH HEARINGS AS THE
12:02:27PM COUNCIL SHALL DEEM NECESSARY, EXPEDIENT, AND PROPER AND
12:02:30PM SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COMPEL THE ATTENDANCE OF WITNESSES
12:02:33PM AND PRODUCTION OF EVIDENCE BY THE ISSUANCE OF ALL FORMS OF

12:02:37PM SUBPOENA AND SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO PUNISH FOR -- BLAH,
12:02:42PM BLAH, BLAH.
12:02:43PM SO THE POINT IS THAT WE GET THESE -- DO WE GET THESE
12:02:49PM OPINIONS.
12:02:49PM CAN I ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY A SIMPLE QUESTION?
12:02:52PM I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK AND OPINE ON ALL THESE PAST -- IT'S
12:02:56PM A SEPARATE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE FORMER INACCURATE
12:02:59PM INTERPRETATIONS.
12:02:59PM BUT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOUR INTERPRETATION.
12:03:02PM DOES THE CHARTER NOW SAY THAT AN ORDINANCE SUPERSEDES AN
12:03:06PM EXECUTIVE ORDER?
12:03:08PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, I WANT TO CORRECT
12:03:10PM THE RECORD BECAUSE YOU AND OTHERS KEEP SAYING IT.
12:03:13PM OUR OFFICE DID NOT ADVISE THIS COUNCIL THAT IT COULD NOT
12:03:20PM DELEGATE ITS SUBPOENA POWER.
12:03:22PM IT SAID THAT IN ORDER TO DELEGATE ITS SUBPOENA POWER, THIS
12:03:29PM COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO SO STATE THAT.
12:03:34PM >>BILL CARLSON: IT SAYS RIGHT HERE, THE COUNCIL OR ANY
12:03:38PM SPECIAL COMMITTEE THEREOF SHALL HAVE THE POWER.
12:03:41PM WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE THE CHARTER.
12:03:43PM THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THIS ISSUE.
12:03:46PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: YOU IGNORE THE ADVICE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
12:03:49PM IT WAS BASED ON CASE LAW IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
12:03:51PM I'M NOT THE EXPERT ON THIS.
12:03:53PM BUT IT WAS BASED ON CASE LAW.

12:03:55PM THE COURT IS ALWAYS GOING TO LOOK TO A SUBPOENA TO DETERMINE
12:03:58PM WHETHER THE PARTY ISSUING IT HAD THE POWER TO DO SO.
12:04:02PM SO THE ADVICE WAS THAT IF YOU WANT TO DELEGATE SUBPOENA
12:04:06PM POWER TO A BOARD, YOU NEED TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO SAY THAT
12:04:09PM THE CITY COUNCIL MAY DELEGATE ITS POWER TO THAT BOARD OR ANY
12:04:14PM OTHER BOARD.
12:04:15PM >>BILL CARLSON: I HAVE TO HIRE MY OWN ATTORNEYS BECAUSE THE
12:04:18PM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY CANNOT HIRE ATTORNEYS, BUT I HAVE TO
12:04:20PM HIRE MY OWN ATTORNEYS AND THEY GIVE ME AN OPPOSITE OPINION.
12:04:24PM WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT ISSUE FOREVER.
12:04:25PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: BUT I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THE CITY
12:04:26PM ATTORNEY DIDN'T SAY YOU CAN'T DELEGATE YOUR POWER.
12:04:28PM >>BILL CARLSON: I DISAGREE WITH THAT, TOO.
12:04:29PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: THEY SAID YOU HAVE TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO
12:04:31PM SO STATE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DELEGATE THE POWER.
12:04:36PM >>BILL CARLSON: I DISAGREE WITH THAT RECOLLECTION.
12:04:37PM BUT ANYWAY, CAN YOU JUST ANSWER SIMPLY, IN YOUR OPINION --
12:04:37PM YOU ARE A NEW CITY ATTORNEY -- IN YOUR OPINION, DOES AN
12:04:40PM ORDINANCE -- AS THE CHARTER IS WRITTEN NOW, DOES AN
12:04:42PM ORDINANCE SUPERSEDE AN EXECUTIVE ORDER?
12:04:45PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF SUPERSEDING.
12:04:47PM THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU KEEP DESCRIBING BACK IN 2015, THE ISSUE
12:04:52PM WASN'T WHETHER EXECUTIVE ORDER TRUMPS ORDINANCE.
12:04:55PM THE ISSUE WAS WHETHER THE CITY COUNCIL HAD THE AUTHORITY TO
12:05:00PM ADOPT AN ORDINANCE THAT GOVERNED PRACTICES OF A POLICE

12:05:05PM DEPARTMENT THAT ONLY THE MAYOR HAD THE AUTHORITY TO MANAGE.
12:05:09PM THAT WAS THE ISSUE.
12:05:11PM SO IT REALLY WASN'T A QUESTION OF EXECUTIVE ORDER VERSUS
12:05:15PM ORDINANCE.
12:05:17PM THE MAYOR, I BELIEVE, TRIED TO CODIFY HIS POSITION IN AN
12:05:20PM EXECUTIVE ORDER.
12:05:21PM BUT, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE THE PAST.
12:05:23PM THAT'S ALL BEEN FIXED.
12:05:26PM >>BILL CARLSON: AGAIN, SETTING ASIDE SPECIFIC CASES, IF AN
12:05:28PM EXECUTIVE ORDER AND ON ORDINANCE ARE IN CONFLICT, DOES -- AS
12:05:32PM THE CHARTER IS WRITTEN NOW, DOES AN ORDINANCE SUPERSEDE AN
12:05:35PM EXECUTIVE ORDER?
12:05:37PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE
12:05:39PM ITSELF.
12:05:39PM BECAUSE I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS, THE MAYOR CAN'T -- A
12:05:42PM MAYOR'S EXECUTIVE ORDER WILL BE VOID IF IT ISN'T CONSISTENT
12:05:47PM WITH LAW.
12:05:48PM I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF REDUNDANT.
12:05:50PM I THINK THIS IS WHAT COUNCILMAN VIERA WAS TRYING TO SAY.
12:05:52PM WE DON'T NEED TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO SAY YOU CAN'T DO
12:05:55PM SOMETHING AGAINST THE LAW.
12:05:56PM WE ALREADY KNOW WE CAN'T DO SOMETHING AGAINST THE LAW.
12:06:03PM >>BILL CARLSON: IF AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS DONE BASED ON AN
12:06:05PM OPINION OF A CITY ATTORNEY AND A NEW CITY ATTORNEY, AN
12:06:08PM OUTSIDE ATTORNEY, SHOWS IT IS THE WRONG INTERPRETATION OF

12:06:11PM THE CHARTER, THEN ISN'T IT THEN AGAINST THE LAW AND IT WOULD
12:06:14PM BE VOID?
12:06:15PM THE EXECUTIVE ORDER WOULD BE VOID AND/OR CITY COUNCIL CAN
12:06:19PM JUST PASS AN ORDINANCE TO SUPERSEDE IT?
12:06:21PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I'M SORRY.
12:06:22PM I'M JUST NOT SURE I'M FOLLOWING YOU.
12:06:25PM >>BILL CARLSON: THERE ARE PAST OPINIONS WHERE A PRIOR CITY
12:06:28PM ATTORNEY SAID THAT THE MAYOR HAD CERTAIN RIGHTS, AND IF YOU
12:06:32PM HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION, OR IF AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL COMES IN
12:06:36PM AND HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION, THEN DOES THAT MEAN THAT ALL OF
12:06:39PM THOSE EXECUTIVE ORDERS BASED ON THE FORMER OPINION ARE NOW
12:06:43PM VOID?
12:06:45PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I CAN'T ANSWER A HYPOTHETICAL LIKE THAT.
12:06:49PM EACH WOULD HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
12:06:51PM >>BILL CARLSON: AGAIN, IF AN ORDINANCE AND AN EXECUTIVE
12:06:55PM ORDER ARE IN CONFLICT AND IT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OTHER PART
12:06:57PM OF THE CHARTER, BUT IF THEY ARE IN CONFLICT, WHICH ONE
12:07:00PM SUPERSEDES THE OTHER?
12:07:02PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: AGAIN, YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FACTS OF
12:07:04PM THAT PARTICULAR CASE.
12:07:06PM WHAT WAS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE ORDINANCE?
12:07:07PM WHAT WAS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE EXECUTIVE ORDER?
12:07:09PM DID COUNCIL HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ADOPT THE ORDINANCE?
12:07:13PM OR IS IT GOVERNED BY SOMETHING THAT THE MAYOR HAS CONTROL
12:07:18PM OVER AND THAT'S WHY -- AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE CRB, THAT

12:07:21PM WAS THE ARGUMENT THAT ONLY THE MAYOR HAD THE AUTHORITY TO
12:07:25PM MANAGE THE AFFAIRS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, SO ONLY HE
12:07:29PM COULD DO IT BY EXECUTIVE -- CREATE THE CRB BY EXECUTIVE
12:07:34PM ORDER.
12:07:34PM BUT, AGAIN, IT WAS VERY FACT SPECIFIC, AND I'M PROBABLY
12:07:38PM TALKING ABOUT IT AT A 30,000-FOOT LEVEL, AND I THINK THERE
12:07:42PM WAS MORE TO IT THAN THAT.
12:07:44PM BUT IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON THE FACTS.
12:07:45PM BUT I THINK THE POINT BEING ANY EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT'S
12:07:49PM INCONSISTENT WITH THE LAW IS VOID.
12:07:53PM AGAIN, YOU DON'T NEED TO SAY THE OBVIOUS.
12:07:55PM >>BILL CARLSON: AND THE LAW YOU MEAN AN ORDINANCE.
12:07:57PM SO AN ORDINANCE PASSED BY CITY COUNCIL, IT BECOMES LAW, IS
12:08:01PM LAW, AND AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IN CONFLICT WITH AN ORDINANCE IS
12:08:04PM VOID.
12:08:05PM THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
12:08:06PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT GLOBALLY BECAUSE I
12:08:09PM SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
12:08:11PM AGAIN, THE POINT THERE WAS THAT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE
12:08:15PM ORDINANCE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS RESERVED TO THE MAYOR.
12:08:20PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MS. ZELMAN.
12:08:21PM OUR TIME IS GETTING CLOSE HERE.
12:08:25PM WE'RE SORT OF PAST THE 12 NOON THAT WE EXPECTED.
12:08:28PM BUT NEVERTHELESS, THIS NEEDS TO BE PUT TO REST, IF WE MIGHT
12:08:30PM DO SO.

12:08:31PM DO I HAVE PERMISSION TO GO FORWARD FOR A FEW MINUTES?
12:08:34PM MR. CHAIRMAN?
12:08:36PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: YES, MA'AM, PLEASE.
12:08:37PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. GUDES AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE WE NEED
12:08:39PM TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS.
12:08:42PM YES, SIR.
12:08:42PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: MOTION I MADE.
12:08:44PM I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE PUT IN SECTION 4.01 AS NUMBER 12.
12:08:49PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.
12:08:50PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I STAND BY THE CORRECTIVE LANGUAGE,
12:08:55PM EXECUTIVE ORDER IN CONFLICT WITH LAW OR ORDINANCE SHALL BE
12:08:57PM VOID FOR SECTION 4.01 AND MAKE IT NUMBER 12.
12:09:02PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE HAVE A SECOND ON THAT?
12:09:07PM >> SECOND.
12:09:07PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: LET'S HAVE A VOTE THAT YOU WANT TO ADOPT
12:09:10PM THIS AS IT IS.
12:09:11PM WE'VE GOT THREE.
12:09:13PM MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, MR. GUDES.
12:09:16PM IT DOES NOT CARRY AT THIS POINT.
12:09:18PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS GOING TO PASS
12:09:20PM TODAY, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
12:09:21PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: LET'S LOOK AT THE TIME.
12:09:24PM HOLD ON ONE SECOND, MR. MIRANDA.
12:09:26PM SO LET'S LOOK AT THE TIME.
12:09:27PM LET'S ASSUME WE LEAVE HERE AT 12:15.

12:09:31PM SO THAT WOULD GIVE US UNTIL 1:15.
12:09:34PM IS THAT A REASONABLE TIME FRAME, 60 MINUTES FOR LUNCH?
12:09:38PM IS THAT OKAY?
12:09:42PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: LET'S DO 1:15.
12:09:44PM THANK YOU.
12:09:44PM 1:15 IS FINE.
12:09:46PM WE'RE ADJOURNED.
12:09:46PM [ SOUNDING GAVEL ]
12:09:46PM
1:16:43PM
1:16:50PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THE WORKSHOP IS BACK IN SESSION.
1:19:36PM ROLL CALL.
1:19:37PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE.
1:19:41PM >> CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE.
1:19:42PM >>LYNN HURTAK: HERE.
1:19:43PM >>BILL CARLSON: HERE.
1:19:46PM >>LUIS VIERA: HERE.
1:19:49PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: HERE.
1:19:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
1:20:08PM GOOD AFTERNOON.
1:20:10PM I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL JUST TO REVIEW THE DISCUSSION
1:20:15PM AND TO MENTION THAT THINGS ARE ALL GOING VERY WELL WITH
1:20:19PM THEM, AND I AM GETTING FEEDBACK ON THE MIKE NOW, WHICH I DID
1:20:22PM NOT EARLIER.
1:20:23PM IS ANYBODY MANAGING THAT?

1:20:24PM >> YES.
1:20:27PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: GOT A LITTLE FEEDBACK.
1:20:30PM WE ARE SHARING THE FLOOR, SO WE CAN ALLOW EACH SPEAKER TO
1:20:33PM FINISH THEIR COMMENTS.
1:20:36PM THIS ONE IS TOUGH BECAUSE WE HAD AREAS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO
1:20:38PM US, THE ECONOMY OF WORDS, WITHHOLDING ANY PERSONALIZED
1:20:45PM COMMENTS, FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND LAST, TOWARD OUR DESIRED
1:20:50PM OUTCOMES.
1:20:51PM IS EVERYBODY ALL RIGHT WITH THAT?
1:20:53PM GOOD.
1:20:54PM >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK WE OUGHT TO ADD AN EXTRA ONE.
1:20:57PM YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT FOR AS LONG AS YOU WANT
1:21:01PM BECAUSE TODAY IS YOUR BIRTHDAY.
1:21:02PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I THINK I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A
1:21:05PM BIRTHDAY TODAY.
1:21:16PM GOOD.
1:21:17PM WHERE WE LEFT OFF WAS SECTION 401.
1:21:24PM THE NEXT SECTION IS 4 IS 4.02.
1:21:27PM ANYONE THERE MAKING A COMMENT?
1:21:29PM OTHERWISE WE WILL PROCEED TO ARTICLE 5.
1:21:32PM >>BILL CARLSON: IF YOU GUYS WANT TO DO THESE FAST, WE CAN
1:21:43PM DO THEM REALLY FAST.
1:21:44PM BUT I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO -- AND BRINGING THINGS UP WE
1:21:51PM BROUGHT UP IN THE CHARTER REVIEW --
1:21:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I'M SORRY, MR. CARLSON, I'M HAVING

1:21:56PM DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING.
1:21:57PM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION NUMBER 4.01
1:22:01PM AND WHETHER WE BROUGHT UP THINGS THAT ARE IN THE CHARTER
1:22:04PM REVIEW COMMISSION BUT I WANT TO BE BRING IT UP SO WE CAN
1:22:06PM HAVE AN UP OR DOWN VOTE.
1:22:08PM IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IF YOU LOOK TOWARD THE BOTTOM IT SAYS
1:22:11PM NO PERSON WHO HAS OR RESIGNATION WOULD HAVE SERVED AS MAYOR
1:22:14PM FOR TWO CONSECUTIVE FULL TERMS WILL BE ELECTED AS MAYOR FOR
1:22:18PM THE SUCCEEDING TERM.
1:22:20PM I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE AGAIN HAVE THE CITY
1:22:24PM ATTORNEY OUTSIDE ATTORNEY COME BACK TO US ON THE OUTSIDE,
1:22:27PM THE NEXT ORDINANCE, TO PRESENT THIS, REMOVING THE WORD,
1:22:32PM 4.01, REMOVING THE WORD CONSECUTIVE AND REMOVING THE TERM
1:22:36PM FOR THE SUCCEEDING TERM.
1:22:38PM SO THE EFFECT OF THAT IS THAT A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN MAYOR
1:22:41PM FOR TWO FULL TERMS, NOT A PARTIAL TERM BUT FOR TWO FULL
1:22:45PM TERMS, CAN'T RUN AGAIN.
1:22:46PM THE WAY IT IS NOW IS YOU RUN TWO CONSECUTIVE TERMS AND YOU
1:22:50PM CAN TAKE A BREAK AND COME BACK.
1:22:52PM SO I DON'T KNOW WITH THE WAY IS VOTE IS GOING TO GO BUT I
1:22:54PM WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF WE CAN GET A SECOND AND WE CAN VOTE UP
1:22:57PM OR DOWN.
1:22:58PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: COULD YOU CONCISELY STATE THE ACTUAL
1:23:03PM PAGE?
1:23:05PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.

1:23:06PM I DON'T KNOW WHICH SENTENCE THIS IS, BUT IN THE SENTENCE
1:23:10PM THAT STARTS WITH "NO PERSON" 4.01, THE FULL PARAGRAPH, MY
1:23:16PM MOTION IS TO REMOVE THE WORD CONSECUTIVE AND THE NEW
1:23:21PM SENTENCE WOULD READ, NO PERSON WHO HAS, BUT FOR RESIGNATION,
1:23:25PM WOULD HAVE SERVED AS MAYOR FOR TWO FULL TERMS SHALL BE
1:23:27PM ELECTED AS MAYOR.
1:23:28PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: TAKE OFF CONSECUTIVE?
1:23:37PM >>BILL CARLSON: AND TAKE OUT "FOR THE SUCCEEDING TERM."
1:23:44PM AND THE ARGUMENT AGAINST THIS IS, WHILE IT'S UP TO THE
1:23:47PM VOTERS TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT TO BRING SOMEBODY BACK,
1:23:50PM BUT IT'S ALSO UP TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT
1:23:53PM TO POOH THIS.
1:23:55PM IF THEY REJECT IT THEN THEY SHOW THAT THEY WANT TO BE ABLE
1:23:58PM TO VOTE FOR WHOMEVER THEY WANT.
1:24:00PM IF THEY APPROVE IT, ALSO COMING BACK.
1:24:04PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I'M SORRY I ASKED FOR THE SECOND.
1:24:06PM ANY OTHER DISCUSSION?
1:24:10PM MR. MIRANDA?
1:24:12PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I CAN APPRECIATE WHAT COUNCILMAN MEMBER
1:24:16PM CARLSON IS SAYING BUT AGAIN I BELIEVE IT'S UP TO THE PUBLIC.
1:24:20PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I'M SORRY?
1:24:22PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I BELIEVE IT'S UP TO THE PUN.
1:24:25PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WHICH WOULD SUPPORT THE MOTION IT WOULD
1:24:26PM GO ON THE BALLOT.
1:24:27PM IS THAT CORRECT?

1:24:28PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: IF THE PUBLIC WANTS IT, IF YOU PUT THEM
1:24:31PM ON THE BALLOT THEN THAT PERP CAN'T RUN AGAIN.
1:24:39PM IT WOULDN'T BE WHAT HE JUST SAID WITHOUT TAKING THE
1:24:41PM PERSON -- IF THE PERSON CANNOT RUN AGAIN, PERIOD, WHETHER IT
1:24:47PM MASSES OR DOESN'T PASS IN A WAY, BECAUSE NOW IT CAN GO BACK
1:24:50PM TO THE ORIGINAL THING.
1:24:51PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DID YOU GET THAT AS NOTES?
1:24:58PM YES.
1:24:58PM AND WE DID HAVE A SECOND.
1:25:00PM AND LET'S CALL FOR A VOTE ON THAT.
1:25:02PM WE NEED FOUR TO PUT THAT ON THE BALLOT.
1:25:07PM ONE, TWO -- THREE.
1:25:10PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THE WAY I UNDERSTAND, THE WAY IT READS
1:25:15PM NOW, ANYBODY WHO IS MAYOR, IN THE PAST OR IN THE FUTURE, CAN
1:25:18PM HAVE TWO FULL TERMS.
1:25:22PM AND HE CAN'T OR SHE CAN'T RUN AGAIN.
1:25:24PM BUT IF HE WANTS TO RUN EIGHT YEARS LATER OR FOUR YEARS LATER
1:25:29PM AND THE PEOPLE WANT THAT PERSON, WHO AM I TO DENY THEM THE
1:25:31PM RIGHT TO BE ON THE BALLOT?
1:25:34PM THAT'S ALL.
1:25:35PM >>BILL CARLSON: MY ARGUMENT IS WE ARE ASKING THE VOTERS TO
1:25:38PM DECIDE WHETHER THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT OR NOT, SO.
1:25:41PM WE ARE VOTING?
1:25:42PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE ARE VOTING.
1:25:45PM LET'S SEE A SHOW OF HANDS.

1:25:46PM TWO.
1:25:47PM DOESN'T CARRY.
1:25:51PM STAYS THE WAY IT IS FOR THE TIME BEING.
1:25:53PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: AND THE TWO SO WE KNOW, BY A SHOW OF
1:25:56PM HANDS, BY AUDIO --
1:25:59PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON AND MS. HURTAK.
1:26:02PM THANK YOU FOR THAT REMINDER.
1:26:04PM I APPRECIATE THAT.
1:26:08PM EXCUSE ME, I WONDER IF YOU CAN ASK THE PEOPLE IN THE HALL.
1:26:10PM IT'S CARRYING THROUGH THE DOOR.
1:26:12PM THANK YOU.
1:26:15PM ARTICLE 5, START WITH 5.01, DEPARTMENTS, AND GO TO 5.303,
1:26:23PM ADDITIONAL DUTIES.
1:26:25PM 5.03.
1:26:26PM ANY DISCUSSION ON SECTION 5?
1:26:31PM PLEASE INDICATE WITH A SHOW OF YOUR HAND.
1:26:35PM MR. CARLSON, YES.
1:26:37PM WHICH SECTION?
1:26:38PM >>BILL CARLSON: SEVERAL.
1:26:43PM WHAT I DID IS I BROKE THESE UP INTO LITTLE PIECES SO WE CAN
1:26:46PM DISCUSS THE PIECES, AND AGAIN WE CAN GET A QUICK UP OR DOWN
1:26:49PM VOTE.
1:26:50PM IT SOUND LIKE IT'S GOING TO GO DOWN BUT I WANT TO AT LEAST
1:26:53PM HAVE THE VOTE SO THE PUBLIC CAN SEE.
1:26:56PM 5.01, I WOULD SUGGEST ADDING, I SAID "A" HERE, BUT I WOULD

1:27:07PM ADD, QUOTE, THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS A DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY
1:27:10PM AS DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION 5.01 WHOSE PURPOSE IS TO
1:27:14PM PROVIDE LEGAL ADVICE TO ITS CLIENTS AS DEFINED BELOW.
1:27:17PM IT IS NOT THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF THE CITY.
1:27:19PM SO I GUESS I AM SUGGESTING PUTTING THIS IN 5.01-A.
1:27:24PM AT THE END OF 5.01 A.
1:27:27PM SO THE IDEA IS TO CLARIFY, JUST BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY
1:27:29PM HAS -- IT'S NOT THESE EXACT WORDS BUT THE FINAL LEGAL -- THE
1:27:34PM FINAL OFFICIAL LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE CITY.
1:27:37PM IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY IT HAS THE FINAL LEGAL OPINION,
1:27:40PM BUT THE FINAL OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE CITY.
1:27:42PM IT DOES NOT MEAN THE CITY ATTORNEY IS A JUDGE OR JURY, AND
1:27:48PM BY THE WAY, THE OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS ARE NOT JUDGE AND JURY
1:27:52PM ALTHOUGH SOME RECENTLY ACTED AS IF THEY WERE.
1:27:54PM THE IDEA HERE IS TO CLEARLY STATE THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS
1:27:58PM UNDER -- THE DEPARTMENT, IT'S NOT A BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.
1:28:01PM SO ALL THIS DOES IS IT SAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT LINE IS THE
1:28:04PM LAST ONE, IT'S NOT A JUDICIAL BRANCH OF THE CITY.
1:28:07PM SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY, OUTSIDE
1:28:12PM ATTORNEY COME BACK ON THE DATE THAT WE PICK FOR THE FIRST
1:28:15PM READING TO ADD AT THE END OF 5.01-A, THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS
1:28:19PM A DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY AS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 5.01 WHOSE
1:28:19PM PURPOSE IS TO PROVIDE LEGAL ADVICE TO ITS CLIENTS AS DEFINED
1:28:24PM BELOW BUT IS NOT THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF THE CITY.
1:28:27PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: COULD YOU HAND SOMETHING TO MR. SHELBY?

1:28:31PM WAS THERE SOMETHING IN PRINT?
1:28:36PM THANK YOU.
1:28:36PM >>BILL CARLSON: IF THERE'S NO SECOND WE CAN MOVE TO THE
1:28:46PM NEXT ONE.
1:28:48PM >>LYNN HURTAK: OH, I'LL SECOND IT.
1:28:49PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I AM LOOKING AT A WORD HERE, SAYS "HIS
1:28:52PM OFFICE SHALL BE IN CITY HALL."
1:28:54PM I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE JUST "HIS."
1:28:59PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SOMETIMES ONE CAN USE THE GENDER NEUTRAL
1:29:02PM WITH THEIR, HIS, HER.
1:29:04PM >>LYNN HURTAK: EXCEPT IN THE LAST YEAR, THE FOUR OF US THAT
1:29:11PM WERE ON THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, THAT WAS ONE OF THE
1:29:13PM FIRST THINGS WE DID WAS REFLECT EVERYTHING IN A GENDER
1:29:16PM NEUTRAL LANGUAGE, AND EVEN THE MOST UPDATED COPY OF THE
1:29:20PM CHARTER STILL HAS YET TO BE DONE, SO MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE
1:29:25PM THAT THEN BECAUSE IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE.
1:29:27PM >>BILL CARLSON: AND SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO IS WATCHING, MY
1:29:30PM PROPOSAL DOESN'T HAVE PRONOUNS IN IT, SO IT'S IRRELEVANT TO
1:29:33PM THE PROPOSAL I MADE.
1:29:35PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: FOR NOW.
1:29:37PM >>BILL CARLSON: THE CHARTER WAS NOT MODIFIED.
1:29:42PM ALL IT SAYS, IT CLEARLY STATES THAT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS
1:29:44PM NOT THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF THE CITY.
1:29:46PM IT'S SIMPLY SERVES TO GIVE LEGAL ADVICE.
1:29:49PM IT'S WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS.

1:29:51PM IT JUST CLARIFIES IT FURTHER FOR THE PUBLIC.
1:29:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK SECONDED THAT.
1:29:57PM READY FOR THE VOTE?
1:30:00PM AS STATED, LET'S DO THE HANDS.
1:30:04PM DOES NOT CARRY.
1:30:04PM THE VOTE BY CARLSON, HURTAK AND GUDES.
1:30:08PM THANK YOU.
1:30:08PM >>BILL CARLSON: THE NEXT ONE IS THE SAME THING.
1:30:22PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: GIVE US WHICH SECTION.
1:30:25PM >>BILL CARLSON: 5.01, ADDING TO THE END OF 5.01-A, THE
1:30:30PM QUOTE, THE CITY ATTORNEY IS APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR ACCORDING
1:30:33PM TO SECTION 6.03 BELOW, THE CITY ATTORNEY MAY BE REMOVED BY
1:30:37PM THE MAYOR OR BY SUPER MAJORITY FIVE MEMBER VOTE OF CITY
1:30:40PM COUNCIL.
1:30:42PM THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY, BY BAR RULES,
1:30:55PM HAS TO REPRESENT CITY COUNCIL, BUT THAT OFFICE HAS NOT, AND
1:31:00PM WITHOUT GETTING INTO ALL THE DETAILS, ANYBODY WHO LOOKS CAN
1:31:03PM SEE THAT THIS CITY ATTORNEY HAS NOT, AND SO WHAT THIS DOES
1:31:08PM IS IT SIMPLY SAYS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY, UNLIKE THE
1:31:13PM COMMUNICATION DEPARTMENT, OR THE OTHER DEPARTMENT HEADS,
1:31:16PM COMMUNICATION DEPARTMENT TECHNICALLY SHOULD REPORT TO CITY
1:31:19PM COUNCIL, BUT AT THE VERY LEAST THE CITY ATTORNEY, BECAUSE
1:31:22PM THEY ARE OBLIGATED BY FLORIDA BAR RULES, THEY SHOULD ALSO
1:31:26PM REPORT TO CITY COUNCIL.
1:31:26PM AND ALL THIS DOES IS IT SAYS, LOOK, IF WE END UP WITH A

1:31:30PM PARTICULARLY BAD CITY ATTORNEY WHO ONLY LISTENS TO THE MAYOR
1:31:33PM AND IS GIVING US BIASED ADVICE, WE HAVE BY SUPER MAJORITY OR
1:31:37PM IF MY COLLEAGUES DON'T LIKE SUPER MAJORITY BY FOUR, BUT BY
1:31:41PM SUPER MAJORITY CITY COUNCIL CAN REMOVE THAT PERSON AND THAT
1:31:46PM FOR THE PERSON TO BE OBJECTIVE.
1:31:52PM THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS, IT'S NOT COMING FROM CITY
1:31:54PM COUNCIL.
1:31:55PM IT'S BECAUSE WE THINK IT'S BIASED VIEWPOINTS, AND BULLY
1:32:00PM TACTICS.
1:32:00PM AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THE CITY
1:32:03PM ATTORNEY IS OBJECTIVE.
1:32:05PM IF THE CITY ATTORNEY IS OBJECTIVE, THE OPINIONS WE GET ARE
1:32:09PM GOING TO BE CLEAR.
1:32:10PM BUT AGAIN TAKE IT FOR UP OR DOWN VOTE.
1:32:12PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO THAT'S YOUR MOTION, TO ASK THAT THAT
1:32:18PM LANGUAGE --
1:32:20PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
1:32:23PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
1:32:25PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I WANT TO SPEAK ON IT. I DON'T KNOW IF
1:32:27PM WE HAVE A SECOND OR NOT.
1:32:28PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I SECOND IT.
1:32:30PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I APPRECIATE WHAT MR. CARLSON IS SAYING.
1:32:32PM HOWEVER, WHAT IF NOT THIS BOARD BUT ANOTHER BOARD IN THE
1:32:38PM FUTURE JUST WANTS TO GET RID OF A CITY ATTORNEY, AND FOR
1:32:42PM WHATEVER REASON, THAT CONFLICT BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE

1:32:46PM CITY WITH FIVE VOTES THAT MEANS THAT CITY ATTORNEY
1:32:49PM AUTOMATICALLY, WHETHER HE OR SHE WAS DOING THE JOB OR NOT IS
1:32:54PM IRRELEVANT.
1:32:55PM AND THAT'S WHAT I CAN'T SWALLOW.
1:32:57PM AND IT COULD BE, SAY THIS BOARD DOES THAT, OTHER BOARDS IN
1:33:02PM THE FUTURE, COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT THEY JUST DON'T LIKE
1:33:06PM THE OPINIONS AND THEY WANT TO GET RID OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.
1:33:08PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE SAYING THIS DOES NOT
1:33:13PM INDICATE JUST CAUSE?
1:33:15PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: RIGHT.
1:33:16PM IT DOESN'T SAY FOR WHAT CAUSE.
1:33:19PM IT SAYS BY A VOTE.
1:33:21PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SLUGS HAS BEEN HELD.
1:33:24PM ANY OTHER DISCUSSION?
1:33:25PM MR. GUDES.
1:33:25PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WE SEE IT ALL THE TIME BUT EARLIER HE
1:33:32PM TALKED ABOUT THIS COUNCIL FIVE VOTES, IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN,
1:33:35PM HE SAID FIVE VOTES.
1:33:37PM SO I AM CONFUSED NOW THAT WE ARE SAYING NO, BUT EARLIER WE
1:33:42PM SAID, THIS COUNCIL, ANYBODY TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO,
1:33:47PM FIVE-OH, BUT FIVE VOTE, BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING, ONCE WE
1:33:51PM APPOINT SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET TO THAT SECTION.
1:33:55PM BUT ONCE WE APPOINT SOMEBODY, THEY BELONG TO THE MAYOR AND
1:33:58PM WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING.
1:34:00PM SO I KNOW HE SAID ABOUT FIVE VOTES.

1:34:02PM I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THAT.
1:34:03PM SO WE NEED INFORMATION, BECAUSE MY ATTORNEY SAYS ONCE THEY
1:34:08PM ARE APPOINTED AND WE GIVE THE GO, IT'S OH, WE CAN'T DO
1:34:13PM ANYTHING.
1:34:13PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. MIRANDA.
1:34:19PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I THINK THE FIVE VOTES IS MISUNDERSTOOD.
1:34:23PM FIVE VOTES OVERRIDES THE MAYOR ON AN ORDINANCE OR AGAINST,
1:34:27PM ANY OTHER COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT.
1:34:29PM WHERE WE START GOING INTO DEPARTMENT HEADS, AND THERE ARE
1:34:32PM MANY IN THE CITY, WHAT'S TO SAY THAT THE ATTORNEY OR CHIEF
1:34:34PM OF POLICE OR FIRE POLICE, THEY ARE ALL DEPARTMENT HEADS.
1:34:37PM SO IS THE CITY ATTORNEY.
1:34:39PM SO WHAT ARE WE SAYING? WE ARE JUST GOING TO PICK ON UP WITH
1:34:42PM AN NOT THE OTHERS, FOR WHATEVER REASON?
1:34:45PM I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT IT OBJECTIVELY, I BELIEVE, LONG-TERM
1:34:48PM FOR THE ASSOCIATION TO HAVE BALANCE.
1:34:52PM AND THE PROBLEM, HOW THEY HANDLE THEIR JOB, I CAN'T JUST
1:34:55PM LEAVE TO THE ONE PERSON.
1:34:57PM I MAY NOT LIKE THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND I DON'T MIND TELLING
1:35:01PM THE CITY ATTORNEY 101.
1:35:04PM THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I AM GOING TO FIRE THEM BECAUSE I
1:35:07PM DON'T LIKE THEM.
1:35:08PM JUST LIKE WE HAVE SAME COMPONENT, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY WITH
1:35:12PM THE SAME THING.
1:35:15PM BUT CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, THEY REDUCE TO FOUR VOTES.

1:35:19PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
1:35:22PM MS. HURTAK.
1:35:23PM >>LYNN HURTAK: ACTUALLY THAT FEEDS INTO A REALLY GOOD
1:35:26PM REASON WHY WE SHOULD BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY IS THE ONLY
1:35:29PM DIRECTOR OF ANY AGENCIES THAT WILL ALSO REPORT TO US.
1:35:33PM SO NO ONE CAN FIRE THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY EXCEPT FOR US.
1:35:39PM BUT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS ALSO SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR US.
1:35:43PM NONE OF THE OTHERS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR US.
1:35:48PM SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT ARGUMENT IS GREAT, BUT IT JUST
1:35:53PM FEEDS WHAT COUNCILMAN MEMBER CARLSON PROPOSED, I BELIEVE, OR
1:35:59PM AT LEAST IT GAVE ME MORE INCENTIVE TO VOTE FOR IT FOLLOWING
1:36:03PM THAT LAST ANALYSIS THANK YOU.
1:36:06PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK, YOUR POINT IS IT IS POSITION
1:36:13PM SPECIFIC?
1:36:13PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES, AND THE CITY ATTORNEY.
1:36:15PM IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER DEPARTMENT HEADS BECAUSE
1:36:17PM OTHER DEPARTMENT HEADS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT US,
1:36:22PM WHEREAS THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS A VERY SPECIFIC ROLE TO
1:36:27PM REPRESENT THE MAYOR, THE CITY, AND THE CITY COUNCIL.
1:36:31PM SO IN THIS CASE, IT REALLY IS A PERSON THAT SHOULD REPORT TO
1:36:38PM US.
1:36:39PM NOT REPORT TO US, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE OR SHE IS SUPPOSED TO
1:36:44PM PROTECT US.
1:36:46PM WE HAVE HAD DIFFERENCES IN THE PAST, RECENT PAST ABOUT
1:36:51PM WHETHER THAT HAS OCCURRED.

1:36:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
1:36:55PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE, WHEN YOU
1:37:00PM UNDERSTAND, IF YOU WERE THE CITY ATTORNEY, ANY ONE OF YOU,
1:37:03PM AND YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE TO SATISFY FIVE
1:37:06PM COUNCIL MEMBERS, BECAUSE NOT THIS COUNCIL AGAIN, ANYTIME,
1:37:11PM HOW WOULD YOU FEEL EVERY TIME YOU COME TO THIS CHAMBER TO DO
1:37:14PM SOMETHING KNOW THAT YOU HAVE GOT TO SATISFY FIVE PEOPLE?
1:37:20PM ONLY THE FACT, MA'AM.
1:37:22PM HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?
1:37:23PM WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE FIVE VOTES THAT, BINGO, YOU'RE
1:37:28PM OUT.
1:37:29PM THAT PERSON HAS A VERY BIG DISADVANTAGE.
1:37:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. CARLSON, ONE MORE COMMENT?
1:37:37PM >>BILL CARLSON: WE ARE LIKE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF A
1:37:38PM CORPORATION, AND POSITIONS LIKE THIS REPORT TO A BOARD, AND
1:37:42PM SOMETIMES BOARD AND CEO, AND SOMETIMES THE EXECUTIVES OF
1:37:46PM THIS CITY A LITTLE LESS, SAY LAND USE OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU
1:37:51PM ARE ALSO IN CHARGE OF A 1.9 BILLION ORGANIZATION, AND I
1:37:56PM DON'T WANT TO GET INTO ALL THE SPECIFICS, BUT WE HAVE HAD
1:37:58PM MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE CASES EVEN IN THE LAST YEAR WHERE THE
1:38:02PM CITY ATTORNEY DID NOT WORK IN THE BEST INTEREST OF CITY
1:38:04PM COUNCIL.
1:38:05PM AND I WILL JUST READ FROM SECTION 5.01-A, IT SAYS, JUST
1:38:11PM GOING TO TAKE EXCERPTS, LEGAL, TALKING ABOUT THE CITY
1:38:14PM ATTORNEY, LEGAL ADVISER OF THE MAYOR, THE CITY COUNCIL, AND

1:38:18PM COMMITTEES THEREOF, AND ALL OF THE SELF DEPARTMENTS,
1:38:22PM OFFICERS AND BOARDS OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT.
1:38:26PM THAT WASN'T FOLLOWED AT ALL IN THE LAST YEAR.
1:38:29PM ALSO, WE WERE TOLD BY FORMER CITY ATTORNEY THAT WE DON'T
1:38:32PM REPRESENT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY.
1:38:34PM AND IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH LATER ON IT SAYS, AND DEFEND THE
1:38:38PM RIGHTS AND INTERESTS OF THE CITY OR ANY OFFICER -- ANY
1:38:42PM OFFICER OF THE CITY.
1:38:43PM DOESN'T SAY CITY COUNCIL.
1:38:44PM ANY OFFICER OF THE CITY, IN ANY SUIT OR PROSECUTION FROM ANY
1:38:48PM ACT IN THE DISCHARGE OF HIS OFFICIAL DUTIES WHEN ANY ESTATE,
1:38:56PM RIGHT, PRIVILEGE, BLAH-BLAH-BLAH, AND NONE OF THAT HAPPENED
1:38:59PM IN THE LAST YEAR.
1:39:00PM SO MY POINT IS, IF A CITY ATTORNEY DOES NOT FOLLOW OUR RULES
1:39:06PM AND REPRESENT THEIR CLIENTS AS DEFINED IN THE CHARTER, THE
1:39:11PM ONLY REMEDY WE HAVE IS WE CAN SUE THEM OR WE CAN FILE
1:39:14PM FLORIDA BAR COMPLAINT.
1:39:15PM AND INSTEAD OF DOING THAT, BECAUSE WHEN I TALK ABOUT GREAT
1:39:21PM DANGER FOR THE CITY, IF WE INDIVIDUALLY REFLECTIVELY START
1:39:25PM FILING LAWSUITS BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY DID NOT REPRESENT
1:39:27PM US INDIVIDUALLY OR COLLECTIVELY, AND WE FILE BAR COMPLAINTS,
1:39:32PM THAT'S GOING TO SEND THE CITY INTO CHAOS AND CAUSE INVESTORS
1:39:36PM NOT TO COME HERE.
1:39:37PM INSTEAD WE CAN MODIFY THIS LANGUAGE, THE CITY ATTORNEY BY
1:39:39PM CHARTER AND BY FLORIDA BAR RULES ALSO REPORTS TO US ALREADY.

1:39:43PM THE ONLY THING IS THAT THEY REPORT TO THE MAYOR.
1:39:45PM IF YOU HAVE AN OUTSIDE ATTORNEY, THE OUTSIDE ATTORNEY IS
1:39:48PM GOING TO REPRESENT YOUR INTERESTS, AND THERE'S INHERENT
1:39:51PM CONFLICT WITH HAVING ALL THESE COMPLIANCE CLIENTS.
1:39:54PM SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT AS THE ONLY OTHER BRANCH OF
1:39:57PM GOVERNMENT THAT THEY REPRESENT US ALSO, AND IF WE SIMPLY
1:40:01PM HAVE BY SUPER MAJORITY THE RIGHT TO FIRE, THE MAYOR CAN FIRE
1:40:04PM AT WILL.
1:40:05PM IF WE ALSO HAVE THAT RIGHT, IT REMINDS THE CITY ATTORNEY
1:40:07PM THAT, YES, THEY DO REPRESENT US.
1:40:10PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
1:40:11PM WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK SECONDED IT.
1:40:15PM AND READY FOR THE VOTE.
1:40:17PM THOSE IN SUPPORT?
1:40:19PM WE HAVE THREE.
1:40:20PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK AND MR. GUDES.
1:40:25PM THANK YOU.
1:40:25PM >>BILL CARLSON: 5.01-A AGAIN, AND THIS JUST HAPPENED
1:40:34PM YESTERDAY.
1:40:34PM WHAT HAPPENS IF THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
1:40:37PM YES, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WAS REPRESENTING TPD IN
1:40:42PM DISCUSSION WITH TODAY'S MEETING BUT THERE WAS NO ONE FROM
1:40:44PM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REPRESENTING POSITION OF CITY
1:40:46PM COUNCIL.
1:40:47PM IT'S NOT ONLY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.

1:40:49PM I JUST READ THAT IT'S ALSO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CITY
1:40:52PM ATTORNEY.
1:40:53PM BUT WHEN A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY IS
1:40:57PM REPRESENTING ONE OF THEIR CLIENTS, THEY NEED TO DISCLOSE
1:41:00PM WHICH CLIENT THEY ARE REPRESENTING AND THEN THERE SHOULD BE
1:41:03PM A REPRESENTATIVE REPRESENTING THE OTHER CLIENTS OF CITY
1:41:05PM COUNCIL.
1:41:05PM SO I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT CITY ATTORNEY'S OUTSIDE
1:41:09PM ATTORNEY REVIEW AND ESSENTIALLY EDIT THE FOLLOWING TO
1:41:13PM PRESENT AT THE FIRST HEARING, AND IT WILL BE AMENDMENT TO
1:41:19PM 5.01-A, SHOULD THE CITY ATTORNEY FACE A SITUATION THAT
1:41:24PM REPRESENTS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THE CITY ATTORNEY WILL
1:41:26PM OFFER EACH PARTY OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO PROVIDE AN OBJECTIVE
1:41:30PM OPINION.
1:41:31PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO YOU HAVE THAT AGAIN?
1:41:38PM A HARD COPY?
1:41:39PM THANK YOU.
1:41:39PM >>BILL CARLSON: MARTY, DO YOU WANT TO --
1:41:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: IF THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SECOND, I WILL
1:41:58PM MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE.
1:41:59PM >> I JUST WANT TO READ IT.
1:42:03PM I'LL SECOND IT.
1:42:04PM >>BILL CARLSON: THIS REALLY SAYS THAT BOTH SIDES NEED TO BE
1:42:10PM REPRESENTED BY OBJECTIVE COUNSEL.
1:42:13PM AND WHAT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE, I TALKED TO A LOT OF

1:42:16PM ATTORNEYS THE B THIS IF AN ATTORNEY HAS A CONFLICT OF
1:42:18PM INTEREST, THEY SAY, I CAN'T HELP YOU, YOU HAVE GOT TO GO TO
1:42:21PM ANOTHER COUNSEL.
1:42:22PM SO WHAT DOES THE CITY COUNCIL DO?
1:42:25PM IF THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL HAVE A DISPUTE OR THE
1:42:29PM MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL DEPARTMENT HEAD, WHATEVER, FLORIDA
1:42:33PM BAR RULES SAY THAT ATTORNEY CANNOT REPRESENT BOTH SIDE,
1:42:36PM THEY'VE GET OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
1:42:38PM BUT IT'S NOT STATED IN THE CHARTER.
1:42:41PM IT SIMPLY STATES WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TYPICALLY ACCORDING TO
1:42:45PM FLORIDA BAR RULES.
1:42:48PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: TO CLARIFY, THIS GOES AT THE END OF --
1:42:52PM >>BILL CARLSON: 5.01-A.
1:42:56PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE IS WHOEVER IS
1:42:59PM CITY ATTORNEY IS, THE WAY I READ THIS, AND MAYBE I AM NOT
1:43:02PM READING IT RIGHT, CONFLICT OF INTEREST, DA-D -- DA, WHOEVER
1:43:11PM THAT CITY ATTORNEY IS, WHOEVER THE BODIES ARE, THE MAYOR AND
1:43:15PM THE COUNCIL HAVE A DISAGREEMENT, THEY COME TO THE -- WHAT
1:43:21PM THEY ARE SAYING IS THAT CITY ATTORNEY CANNOT MAKE A
1:43:24PM DETERMINATION, AND IF THAT OTHER PARTY CAN GET OUTSIDE
1:43:29PM COUNSEL.
1:43:29PM WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?
1:43:32PM HOW MANY OUTSIDE COUNSELS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE?
1:43:35PM THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY ATTORNEY TO BE THE
1:43:37PM HEAD OF BOTH BODIES, BOTH.

1:43:40PM THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE ADMINISTRATION.
1:43:42PM THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY.
1:43:44PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: LET ME CHECK BACK WITH MR. CARLSON.
1:43:46PM IS THAT WHAT YOUR INTENTION WAS?
1:43:48PM >>BILL CARLSON: YEAH, AND I GAVE THE EXAMPLE, AND THE REST
1:43:51PM OF THE WORLD, IF AN ATTORNEY HAS A CONFLICT, THEY CAN'T
1:43:54PM HANDLE THE CASE.
1:43:55PM IF THERE'S A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL OR
1:43:57PM WHATEVER, CITY ATTORNEY IS CONFLICTED OUT.
1:44:00PM THE CITY ATTORNEY IS NOT THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT
1:44:03PM EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T APPROVE THAT AMENDMENT, STILL NOT THE
1:44:06PM JUDICIAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT AND THEIR OPINION COULD BE
1:44:10PM BIASED.
1:44:11PM WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY CASES OF BIAS IN THE LAST IF YOU YEARS
1:44:15PM THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET OUTSIDE OPINIONS.
1:44:19PM AND THIS IS TO AVOID CONFLICT, NOT TO CREATE CONFLICT.
1:44:23PM THERE ALREADY IS CONFLICT NOT CREATED BY US BUT CREATED BY
1:44:28PM THE OPINIONS THAT TAKE AWAY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, WITHOUT
1:44:30PM CHANGING THE CHARTER, WITHOUT GOING BEFORE THE PUBLIC AND
1:44:32PM GETTING A VOTE, THEY CHANGED THE CHARTER TO TAKE AWAY POWERS
1:44:35PM OF CITY COUNCIL.
1:44:36PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
1:44:38PM MR. GUDES.
1:44:38PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, MA'AM.
1:44:41PM WELL, WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE.

1:44:43PM AND I HAVE GOT SEVERAL CALLS.
1:44:45PM AND I WASN'T GOING TO COME BACK.
1:44:46PM BUT I HAD SOME PEOPLE SAID NO, YOU NEED TO COME BACK, THAT'S
1:44:49PM YOUR JOB.
1:44:51PM THIS IS A TOTALLY MOCKERY TODAY.
1:44:53PM TRULY IS.
1:44:55PM WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED.
1:45:02PM WHETHER COUNCIL WANTS TO BE TRY TO MAKE A CHANGE OR NOT FOR
1:45:05PM WHATEVER REASON, AND THAT'S FINE.
1:45:07PM I AM REMINDED BY MR. MIRANDA YOU CAN'T GET MAD ABOUT
1:45:10PM PEOPLE'S VOTE.
1:45:12PM FOR ME TO THE PUBLIC EARS, I AM GOING TO DO MY DUTY,
1:45:16PM REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE OUTCOME IS TODAY.
1:45:18PM WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT
1:45:22PM GOING TO BE ANY VOTES THAT GO THROUGH TODAY, AND THAT'S
1:45:25PM FINE.
1:45:25PM BUT I WANT TO SAY, YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS.
1:45:28PM I SAID THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
1:45:29PM I CAN'T -- YOU BELONG TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
1:45:35PM IF I HIRE YOU, YOU HAVE TO BE LOYAL TO ME.
1:45:39PM IF I HIRE YOU, YOU BETTER BE LOYAL TO ME OR I AM GOING TO
1:45:43PM FIRE YOU IF YOU AIN'T LOYAL TO ME IT'S DON'T CARE WHAT
1:45:46PM ANYBODY SAYS.
1:45:47PM IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THINGS ARE TERRIBLE.
1:45:49PM BUT THE CITY ATTORNEY HERE, AND IF THE MAYOR WANTS ATTORNEY

1:45:57PM STAFF AND BOND, CITY COUNCIL HAS THEIR STAFF, AND IF THERE'S
1:46:00PM A DISPUTE, NOW YOU HAVE A CITY ATTORNEY WHO IS UNBIASED TO
1:46:06PM MAKE A DECISION, SHOULD NOT BE ANSWERING THE TO IT MAYOR, AN
1:46:09PM INDEPENDENT BODY, AN INDEPENDENT PERSON.
1:46:11PM THIS COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR COMMUNICATE TO THE STAFF, PUTTING
1:46:14PM ALL KINDS OF STUFF BY COUNCIL MEMBERS BUB WE DON'T HAVE A
1:46:20PM STAFF TO COUNTER THESE THINGS.
1:46:22PM SO SHOULD NOT BE A DEPARTMENT PER SE, BUT A CITY ATTORNEY
1:46:26PM SHOULD BE A STAND ALONE PERSON.
1:46:28PM THAT'S MY OPINION.
1:46:29PM AND AGAIN, YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS.
1:46:32PM I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS, BECAUSE I HIRED YOU, OR IF
1:46:37PM YOU DON'T DO WAY SAY DO, I AM GOING TO FIRE YOU.
1:46:39PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR CLARIFICATION MR.
1:46:42PM VIERA, YOU ALSO HAD A COMMENT.
1:46:44PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
1:46:45PM I APPRECIATE THAT.
1:46:46PM AND AGAIN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE SEEING ON FIRST
1:46:49PM IMPRESSION, MIGHT BE A CHALLENGE OF A LOT OF ISSUES WE ARE
1:46:52PM SEEING TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME ASIDE FROM SOME GENERAL
1:46:55PM DISCUSSIONS THAT WE ARE BEING ASKED TO GO FORWARD ON A
1:46:58PM FORMAL PROCESS ON WEIGHTY ISSUES IN OUR CHARTER THAT WILL
1:47:03PM HAVE SOME EFFECT, YOU KNOW, AND CERTAIN OF THESE ISSUES, YOU
1:47:07PM KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO FURTHER DISCUSS, RIGHT?
1:47:11PM IF WE HAD MORE TIME.

1:47:12PM AGAIN NOT TO RELITIGATE ISSUES.
1:47:14PM BUT I GO BACK TO A MONTH AGO.
1:47:16PM MY CHALLENGE WITH THIS IS AGAIN JUST LOOKING AT IT FROM THE
1:47:19PM LANGUAGE THAT I SEE IS THIS COULD CREATE POTENTIALLY A
1:47:23PM BURDEN WHERE WE CREATE CONFLICTS WHERE THERE ARE NOT, THOSE
1:47:26PM TRADITIONAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT CONFLICT THAT WE SEE, IN MY
1:47:30PM OPINION, TO THE EXTENT THAT A COUNCILMEMBER MAY FEEL THAT
1:47:33PM THEY NEED COUNSEL, WE HAVE THIS FINE GENTLEMAN HERE WHO CAN
1:47:38PM FULFILL THAT TASK.
1:47:39PM THAT'S MY OPINION, AGAIN UPON FIRST IMPRESSION.
1:47:43PM I JUST WANTED TO STATE MY RATIONALE TO GIVE THE PROCESS THE
1:47:47PM RESPECT IT DESERVES.
1:47:49PM THANK YOU.
1:47:49PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: AND I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON WHY THIS IS
1:47:54PM CALLED A WORKSHOP, THAT THERE ARE DISCUSSION POINTS, AND NOT
1:47:57PM NECESSARILY A FINAL DECISION.
1:48:01PM IF IT DOES HAPPEN, IT DOES HAPPEN.
1:48:03PM AND WE GET A VOTE.
1:48:05PM A WORKSHOP.
1:48:06PM THANK YOU.
1:48:06PM AND MS. HURTAK.
1:48:08PM LET ME GO TO MS. HURTAK REAL QUICKLY.
1:48:11PM SHE HAD HER HAND UP.
1:48:12PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THAT'S KIND OF THE POINT OF TODAY FOR ME,
1:48:15PM EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SAID, AND HEY, FOLKS, WE

1:48:19PM ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK AT ANY OTHER TIME TO EACH OTHER SO
1:48:24PM THAT'S TO GIVE US A FULL MONTH TO COME BACK WITH LANGUAGE
1:48:26PM THAT WOULD HAVE TWO FULL VOTES.
1:48:29PM SO THE PUBLIC CAN WEIGH IN AT THAT POINT OR EARLIER BECAUSE
1:48:32PM YOU KNOW THEY WILL, AFTER TODAY.
1:48:34PM EACH ONE OF US WILL GET PHONE CALLS ABOUT OUR PERFORMANCE
1:48:38PM TODAY.
1:48:38PM AND SO YOU KNOW THAT WILL HAPPEN.
1:48:41PM SO ANYTHING WE PASS, WE ALSO MAY COME BACK AND DECIDE, NEVER
1:48:46PM MIND.
1:48:46PM SO FOR ME, THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EXERCISE OF, HEY, THIS IS
1:48:50PM REALLY INTERESTING, I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE IT FURTHER.
1:48:53PM AND EVERYONE'S GIANT IDEAS TO SOME MORE SPECIFIC ONES THAT I
1:49:01PM THINK WE SHOULD ALL FOCUS ON.
1:49:03PM SO I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.
1:49:05PM WHILE I WOULD LOVE TO GO IN DEPTH ABOUT MORE OF THESE, TO ME
1:49:09PM THIS IS REALLY JUST A, HEY, THIS IS ONE THAT KIND OF PIQUES
1:49:14PM ALL OF OUR INTEREST, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT MORE, FOR
1:49:17PM COUNCIL TO BACK.
1:49:19PM THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE PURPOSE OF THIS WORKSHOP IS WHY A
1:49:22PM AND WHY I SUPPORTED SO MANY DIFFERENT -- BECAUSE I AM COOL
1:49:27PM ABOUT COMING BACK TO FOCUS ON THESE SPECIFIC ONES TO BRING
1:49:30PM BACK.
1:49:30PM I DON'T THINK ANY IDEAS TODAY ARE BAD IDEAS.
1:49:33PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.

1:49:36PM MR. VIERA, YOU WANTED TO ADD A NOTE?
1:49:39PM >>LUIS VIERA: NOT TO BE RELITIGATE THE ISSUE, WITH YOU BUT
1:49:44PM I WISH WE COULD HAVE HAD ADDITIONAL TIME TO DISCUSS THESE.
1:49:46PM BECAUSE WHEN I VOTE YES ON SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE TO VOTE NO
1:49:50PM ON IT LATER.
1:49:51PM I JUST DON'T.
1:49:52PM I LIKE TO GIVE IT TIME FOR CONSIDERATION.
1:49:53PM THAT'S THE WAY I FUNCTION.
1:49:55PM BUT THAT'S IT.
1:49:55PM BUT AGAIN, I APPRECIATE COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK'S WORDS.
1:50:02PM SLOW SLOWED AS WE CONCLUDE, WITH THAT HE TIME COMES, IS
1:50:05PM LOOKING AT NEXT STEPS AND A TIMELINE.
1:50:08PM SO WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT PROCESS.
1:50:11PM AND IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO FOLD INTO IT BEFORE
1:50:15PM WE END?
1:50:18PM TO FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT AND MS. HURTAK'S?
1:50:21PM YES, MR. CARLSON?
1:50:22PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES, AND I WOULD JUST ASK MY COLLEAGUES WHO
1:50:26PM VOTE AGAINST THESE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THEM AND DISCUSS THEM
1:50:31PM WITH WHOEVER YOUR ADVISORS ARE AND YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO
1:50:35PM BRING IT BACK, WELL STILL BRING IT BACK.
1:50:37PM BRING IT UP IN NEW BUSINESS TO SAY, HEY, I REFLECTED ON SOME
1:50:41PM OF THESE THINGS AND I THINK DIFFERENTLY.
1:50:42PM BUT I THINK MAYBE THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS TO GIVE THE PUBLIC
1:50:49PM THE RIGHT TO DECIDE, AND IF WE DON'T APPROVE SOME OF THESE

1:50:52PM TWEAKS, WE ARE GOING TO END UP IN A SITUATION WHERE WE
1:50:56PM CONTINUE TO HAVE CONFLICTS, AND THESE ISSUES WILL CONTINUE
1:50:59PM TO FESTER.
1:51:00PM AND SOME FOLKS ARE ASKING ME AT LUNCH, LIKE ARE YOU REALLY
1:51:05PM GOING TO GO THROUGH THE REST OF THESE AND GET THE VOTE NO?
1:51:08PM YES, I DON'T CARE. TO ME THIS IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS, NOT
1:51:12PM BEING ABLE TO TWEET AT THE END OF THE DAY I LOST OR WHATEVER
1:51:15PM WHICH I'M SURE SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO.
1:51:17PM THIS IS ABOUT BRINGING UP THE ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO
1:51:19PM THE CITY, AND CONSTITUENTS WANT ME TO BRING IT.
1:51:23PM THEY HAVE LOTS OF CONCERNS ABOUT THE WAY THE CITY IS BEING
1:51:25PM RUN AND THE WAY CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE BEEN TREATED BY
1:51:27PM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
1:51:28PM AND WE HAVE MS. ZELMAN IS NEW, AND I AM NOT PUTTING THAT ON
1:51:32PM HER, BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE AT THE VERY LEAST, EVEN THOUGH
1:51:35PM THESE MAY NOT PASS, THE MESSAGE IS OUT THERE AND IT'S NOT
1:51:38PM HOW DO YOU MAKE THESE UP?
1:51:40PM THEY ARE COME FROM THE PUBLIC ALSO, AND COMING FROM GOOD
1:51:42PM LEGAL COUNSEL, AND WE NEED TO SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT THE
1:51:45PM UNDERLYING ISSUES.
1:51:46PM SO I WOULD JUST ASK RESPECTFULLY FOR A VOTE UP OR DOWN.
1:51:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
1:51:53PM ARE YOU VOTING?
1:51:55PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NO, I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING.
1:51:57PM AS WE BRING UP SOME OTHER STUFF, I HAVE NEVER GONE TO MR.

1:52:01PM CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY MR. SHELBY, OR THE CITY ATTORNEY ON
1:52:05PM ANY ISSUE REGARDING THIS.
1:52:07PM NONE OF IT.
1:52:09PM I HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANY ONE OF THESE COLLEAGUES HERE TO
1:52:11PM CLEAR THE AIR, THE WAY WAS SAID, PRECONCEIVED THAT THE VOTE
1:52:16PM CALL IS GOING DO BE 4 TO 3 OR 3230 TO 4 OR 5 TO 2 OR 2 TO 5
1:52:23PM OR WHATEVER NUMBERS.
1:52:24PM LET ME CLEAR THE AIR RIGHT THERE.
1:52:25PM AND IF ANYBODY WANTS TO QUESTION THAT, WE CAN DO THAT
1:52:27PM ANYTIME YOU WANT.
1:52:28PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, SIR.
1:52:31PM WE ARE GOING TO CALL FOR THE VOTE.
1:52:33PM AND COULD YOU READ OUT THE MOTION?
1:52:44PM >> [OFF MICROPHONE]
1:52:52PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I BELIEVE WE HAD A SECOND AS WELL.
1:53:04PM SO LET'S GO TO THE VOTE.
1:53:05PM WE HAVE THREE.
1:53:06PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK AND MR. GUDES.
1:53:08PM >>BILL CARLSON: OKAY.
1:53:11PM NEXT ONE --
1:53:13PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: COULD I INTERVENE FOR ONE MOMENT?
1:53:15PM IF WE COULD PUT BACK UP OUR DESIRED OUTCOMES.
1:53:19PM BECAUSE I THINK IT REALLY IS UNDERSCORING WHAT SOME OF YOU
1:53:22PM ARE SAYING.
1:53:23PM IF YOU WILL NOTICE WHAT THIS SAYS, IT USES VERY SPECIFIC

1:53:26PM LANGUAGE.
1:53:26PM DOES THAT COME UP ON YOUR SCREEN?
1:53:29PM TO EXPLORE, DISCUSS AND DEVELOP.
1:53:36PM EXPLORE IS A GREAT DEAL OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN THIS
1:53:38PM WORKSHOP.
1:53:39PM JUST WANT TO UNDERSCORE THAT.
1:53:40PM THANK YOU.
1:53:40PM >>BILL CARLSON: I HAVE THREE MORE QUICK ONES IN THIS AREA.
1:53:43PM NEXT AGAIN, I AM SORRY, TO MODIFY SECTION 5.01-A, AND IT IS,
1:53:52PM QUOTE, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MAY NOT PARTICIPATE IN AN
1:53:55PM INVESTIGATION OF A CLIENT, IN PARENTHESIS, THE MAYOR OR CITY
1:54:00PM COUNCIL, COUNSEL OF CITY COUNCIL, AS DEFINED IN THE CHARTER,
1:54:04PM WITHOUT FIRST INFORMING THAT CLIENT OF THE INVESTIGATION AND
1:54:08PM NATURE OF THE INVESTIGATION.
1:54:10PM AND I AM NOT BRINGING UP A SPECIFIC CASE, BUT WE -- IF AN
1:54:17PM ATTORNEY -- IF AN ATTORNEY IS REPRESENTING YOU, AND IT'S
1:54:21PM CLEAR FROM THE CHARTER THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY ALWAYS
1:54:24PM REPRESENTS CITY COUNCIL, AND ALSO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, IT'S
1:54:27PM SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED THERE, A CITY ATTORNEY BY FLORIDA BAR
1:54:32PM RULES SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO INVESTIGATE ITS OWN CLIENT
1:54:36PM WITHOUT AT LEAST FIRST DISCLOSING THAT TO THE CLIENT.
1:54:39PM AND THAT'S BASIC -- SO THE ONLY OPTION IS TO EITHER FILE A
1:54:44PM LAWSUIT OR GO TO THE FLORIDA BAR AND MAKE A COMPLAINT.
1:54:47PM SO I WOULD LIKE TO AVOID THAT BY JUST SPECIFYING THIS HERE.
1:54:50PM >>LYNN HURTAK: SECOND.

1:54:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE HAVE A SECOND WITH MS. HURTAK.
1:54:56PM DISCUSSION ON THIS TOPIC?
1:54:58PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I JUST READ THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME AND
1:55:01PM I HAVE TO DIGEST IT FOR A SECOND HERE.
1:55:04PM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE -- THE WAY I READ THIS, THERE
1:55:14PM IS -- IF THERE IS AN ALLEGATION AGAINST ME, LET'S SAY, AND I
1:55:17PM DON'T SEE HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY CAN START AN INVESTIGATION
1:55:22PM OR THE NATURE OF AN INVESTIGATION WITHOUT LETTING ME KNOW
1:55:25PM ABOUT IT.
1:55:28PM LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER COMES UNDER INVESTIGATION.
1:55:31PM OR STATE ATTORNEY MAKES AN INVESTIGATION.
1:55:32PM NOW UNLESS YOU COMMIT A CRIME OUTSIDE, WHETHER IT'S ME OR
1:55:38PM ANYONE ELSE, AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GETS INVOLVED.
1:55:40PM I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE SENSE OF IT.
1:55:43PM BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE PAST OR THE FUTURE.
1:55:46PM I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND I DON'T WANT TO
1:55:48PM SPEAK ON IT -- I THINK THE CITY ATTORNEY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE
1:55:53PM FOR WHAT YOU DO.
1:55:57PM THAT CITY ATTORNEY TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO DO IF I WANT TO BE
1:56:02PM REPRESENTED BY THAT CITY ATTORNEY F.I FEEL I AM UNDER
1:56:05PM INVESTIGATION AND I HAVE A CONFERENCE WITH THAT CITY
1:56:06PM ATTORNEY THAT CITY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO TELL ME BY LAW WHAT
1:56:09PM MY RIGHTS ARE, IF THEY WANT ME TO HAVE THAT CITY ATTORNEY
1:56:14PM REPRESENT ME.
1:56:15PM THAT'S WHAT I THINK IT'S ABOUT BUT I AM NOT SURE.

1:56:17PM SO THAT'S WHY I CAN'T VOTE FOR IT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF
1:56:23PM THERE'S TOO MANY INVESTIGATIONS, TOO MANY CRIMES. I DON'T
1:56:24PM KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT THE TEXT OF THE CONVERSATION
1:56:27PM BETWEEN THAT INDIVIDUAL WHO MIGHT BE CHARGED OR NOT CHARGED,
1:56:31PM WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
1:56:32PM I DON'T KNOW THAT.
1:56:34PM >> SO IS YOUR KEY WORD DEALING WITH SEMANTICS OF
1:56:37PM INVESTIGATION?
1:56:38PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: CORRECT.
1:56:40PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DOES ANYONE WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT, YOUR
1:56:42PM UNDERSTANDING, YOUR THOUGHT?
1:56:44PM YES, MR. MANISCALCO.
1:56:45PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THINKING ABOUT THIS AND TRYING TO
1:56:47PM GATHER MY THOUGHTS, I KNOW WHY A LOT OF THESE ARE, WHERE
1:56:51PM THEY STEM FROM, AND MISMANAGEMENT OR MISHANDLING.
1:56:56PM WE ARE HERE TODAY BECAUSE OF RECENT THINGS THAT HAVE
1:56:59PM HAPPENED IN THE PAST YEAR, AND HERE WE ARE DISCUSSING THE
1:57:03PM CHARTER.
1:57:05PM WE HAD A CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION FOUR YEARS AGO AT LENGTH
1:57:09PM WITH MANY MEMBERS, MANY THAT ARE HERE, MANY THAT ARE WITH
1:57:12PM THE CITY, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I STARTED MY COMMENTS THIS
1:57:17PM MORNING, IT FEELS LIKE WE HAVE BEEN AT WAR WITH ONE ANOTHER.
1:57:21PM AND WE TALK ABOUT HARD RESET.
1:57:23PM WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
1:57:26PM WE HAVE A NEW CITY ATTORNEY.

1:57:33PM I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED THIS POLITICS FOR 12 YEARS.
1:57:35PM I GOT ELECTED IN 2015.
1:57:36PM I HAVE RUN THREE CAMPAIGNS.
1:57:40PM NO ONE EVER THOUGHT OF THE CHARTER.
1:57:42PM NO ONE DISCUSSED A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED
1:57:45PM BECAUSE THE MAIN OBJECTIVE AND GOAL IS TO SERVE THE
1:57:48PM COMMUNITY AND GET ELECTED HERE.
1:57:50PM I APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, THIS TODAY, BUT TO ME IT'S A MESS,
1:57:58PM YOU KNOW.
1:58:00PM I DON'T KNOW, WE NEED TO LOOK WITHIN OURSELVES.
1:58:03PM I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO THAT WE GET ALONG BETTER.
1:58:07PM BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WHERE A LOT OF THIS COMES FROM, AND
1:58:09PM THIS COULD BE AVOIDED.
1:58:10PM ALL WE SHOULD DO IS FOLLOW THE CHARTER.
1:58:12PM THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF HERE WAS ALREADY SAID, THERE'S A LOT
1:58:15PM OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS OVER THE YEARS THAT HAVE MUDDIED THE
1:58:19PM WATERS, AND WE NEED TO GO DOWN A DIFFERENT PATH.
1:58:24PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: AND THIS IS AS NEUTRAL A COMMENT AS I CAN
1:58:30PM MAKE, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE OF
1:58:32PM INTERPRETATION.
1:58:34PM SO IT IS CERTAINLY AN ISSUE.
1:58:38PM OF HOW DIFFERENT PEOPLE INTERPRET.
1:58:40PM THAT'S THE POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION.
1:58:43PM MR. VIERA AND THEN MR. CARLSON.
1:58:44PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

1:58:46PM AND AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE SOME POSITIVE
1:58:50PM RESULTS.
1:58:50PM MY CONCERN WITH IT AMONG OTHER THINGS IS, AND AGAIN JUST
1:58:54PM HYPOTHETICALLY, THIS COULD LEAD TO POTENTIAL RETALIATION
1:59:01PM AGAINST SOMEBODY THAT MAKES A COMPLAINT, ET CETERA.
1:59:03PM AGAIN, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES GOING FORWARD WITH SOMETHING.
1:59:08PM THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH THIS.
1:59:09PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS BEEN VERY CORDIAL IN
1:59:14PM LISTENING TO ONE ANOTHER.
1:59:16PM MR. CARLSON AND THEN MR. GUDES.
1:59:18PM >>BILL CARLSON: RETALIATION IS AGAINST LAW, AGAINST THE
1:59:23PM HANDBOOK, SO WE CAN'T DO THAT ANYWAY.
1:59:25PM SO I WILL SAY TO COUNCILMEMBER MANISCALCO'S
1:59:29PM QUESTION, THE ISSUE OF MAKING PEACE IS NOT ON OUR SIDE.
1:59:34PM CHIEF BENNETT WILL TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE CALLED IN
1:59:38PM AND ASKED TO MAKE PEACE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, WHERE AFTER
1:59:41PM THE ADMINISTRATION HAS OVERTLY ATTACKED ME AND MY
1:59:44PM COLLEAGUES, I HAVE SAID, LET'S MAKE PEACE.
1:59:46PM I MET WITH THE MAYOR IN FEBRUARY AND TRIED TO MAKE PEACE.
1:59:50PM THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHIEF BENNETT AND I WORKED
1:59:52PM OUT.
1:59:53PM I HAVE CALLED, NOT WHEN WE CONTINUE THE ATTACK AND CONTINUE
1:59:57PM TO GET BIASED OPINION FROM CITY ATTORNEY, I HAVE ASKED
2:00:00PM PUBLICLY FOR THE MAYOR TO COME APOLOGIZE TO CITY COUNCIL FOR
2:00:03PM USING CITY RESOURCES TO ATTACK US.

2:00:05PM AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.
2:00:07PM I HAVE ASKED THE CHIEF OF STAFF TO HAVE THE MAYOR CALL ME TO
2:00:11PM TALK ABOUT THESE ATTACKS.
2:00:14PM I AM NOT THE ONE THAT ATTACKED.
2:00:15PM THE ATTACKS WERE THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
2:00:17PM AND I HAVE BEEN CALL OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR PEACE.
2:00:20PM I HAVE HAD SELF CONVERSATIONS WITH MS. ZELMAN.
2:00:23PM I HAD CONVERSATION WITH HER, HER PREDECESSOR TO TRY TO MAKE
2:00:26PM SURE WE GOT FAIR AND ACCURATE RESPONSES.
2:00:29PM SO FAR I HAVE NOT FILED A LAWSUIT.
2:00:30PM I HAVE NOT FILED A BAR COMPLAINT AGAINST ANYONE, ALTHOUGH I
2:00:33PM AM COMPLETELY ENTITLED TO DO BOTH AND AT LEAST ONE OF MY
2:00:36PM OTHER COLLEAGUES IS.
2:00:38PM WE HAVE NOT DONE THAT BECAUSE IT ISN'T IN THE BEST INTEREST
2:00:40PM OF THE CITY.
2:00:40PM BUT DON'T BLAME IT ON CITY COUNCIL AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.
2:00:43PM THIS IS THE NOT ON US.
2:00:44PM THE REASON WHY THIS IS HAPPENING IS BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT AN
2:00:47PM ADMINISTRATION THAT'S JUST GETTING WHATEVER IT WANTS FROM
2:00:51PM CITY COUNCIL AND THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO DO TODAY AND THEY
2:00:53PM ARE GOING TO TWEET TODAY, OH, HIGH FIVE, WE PUT THEM IN
2:00:58PM THEIR PLACE.
2:00:59PM BECAUSE WHY IS IT WE DIDN'T FIND OUT ABOUT THIS CIVIL RIGHTS
2:01:02PM INVESTIGATION BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR SIX MONTHS?
2:01:05PM WHY IS IT THAT WE COULDN'T GET ANSWERS AS TO WHO MADE THE

2:01:07PM DECISION NOT TO PUT $108 MILLION CONTRACT OUT TO BID?
2:01:11PM WHY IS IT WE COULDN'T GET SIMPLE ANSWERS LAST WEEK?
2:01:14PM HOW MUCH IS IT GOING COST FOR TEN YEARS?
2:01:16PM WE DON'T KNOW.
2:01:17PM HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST FOR 30 YEARS?
2:01:19PM WE DON'T KNOW.
2:01:19PM THAT'S RIDICULOUS THAT WE DON'T KNOW THESE THINGS AND PART
2:01:22PM OF THE REASON WE CAN'T GET THE ANSWERS IS BECAUSE WE DON'T
2:01:25PM HAVE ANY LEGAL SUPPORT.
2:01:27PM SO I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT'S BEHIND
2:01:31PM THIS, BUT OBVIOUSLY IF THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS A CONFLICT OF
2:01:34PM INTEREST, WHICH THEY DO, BECAUSE -- AND THEY REPRESENT
2:01:37PM MULTIPLE CLIENTS, AND YOUR OWN ATTORNEY CANNOT INVESTIGATE
2:01:43PM YOU OR PERSECUTE YOU.
2:01:44PM I HAVE HAD THE FORMER CITY ATTORNEY SAY THINGS TO ME THAT
2:01:47PM WERE SLANDEROUS TO THE MEDIA, COMPLETELY NOT BASED ON LAW
2:01:50PM AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SAID.
2:01:52PM AND WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO IS AVOID A CONFLICT BY MAKING
2:01:55PM SURE THAT WE MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THEY CAN'T WORK AGAINST
2:02:00PM US.
2:02:01PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: AGAIN THE KEY WORDS HERE ARE FIRST
2:02:03PM INFORMING THE CLIENT, PICK OUT THE PIECE ABOUT IT.
2:02:07PM WE HAVE A MOTION?
2:02:08PM YES, MR. GUDES, THANK YOU.
2:02:09PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THE GIST OF THIS WHOLE CHARTER IS

2:02:12PM OVERSIGHT.
2:02:14PM THERE IS NO OVERSIGHT ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
2:02:18PM AND WE HAVE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE CITY, THAT PERSON
2:02:24PM COULD CLIP A LOT OF THIS STUDY, AND INTERPRETATIONS, AND I
2:02:31PM THINK THAT'S WHAT WAS STATED.
2:02:33PM SOMEONE IS WATCHING THE HOUSE.
2:02:34PM I THINK AN INSPECTOR GENERAL WOULD BE A PERSON WHO WOULD
2:02:37PM MONITOR WHEN WE GO ASTRAY ON SOME OF THE THINGS WE ARE
2:02:43PM DOING.
2:02:43PM I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OTHER COUNTIES.
2:02:48PM THE EXACT THING I AM TALKING ABOUT.
2:02:50PM AND YOU CAN GET AWAY FROM -- THERE ARE SOME SMALL WORDS IN
2:02:57PM HERE THAT COULD BE REDEFINED BY SOMEONE'S INTERPRETATION.
2:03:00PM A LOT OF THEM ARE.
2:03:04PM WHEN WE GET DO 6.03, THERE ARE A LOT IN THAT THAT NEED TO BE
2:03:09PM CLEARED UP.
2:03:10PM AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AREN'T AWARE OF THAT, WE HAVE A
2:03:12PM SITUATION, SO WE'LL GET TO THAT DISCUSSION.
2:03:18PM THERE WAS A WHOLE COMMUNITY.
2:03:22PM SO WE KNOW SOMETHING TO FIX IT.
2:03:25PM BUT I AM SAYING MAYBE LOOK AT IN THEIR MINDS, MAYBE AN
2:03:29PM INSPECTOR GENERAL WOULD BE GOOD, TO BE ABLE TO MONITOR AND
2:03:33PM DEAL WITH CHARTER ISSUES AND THE INVESTIGATION.
2:03:37PM BUT I THINK AN INSPECTOR GENERAL WOULD BE GOOD.
2:03:42PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, SIR.

2:03:43PM WE HAVE A MOTION.
2:03:44PM DO WE HAVE A?
2:03:47PM MS. HURTAK.
2:03:48PM ARE WE READY TO VOTE ON THIS PLAN ABOUT FIRST INFORMING THE
2:03:51PM INDIVIDUAL ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION?
2:03:54PM WE HAVE THREE VOTES.
2:03:55PM MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
2:03:58PM THANK YOU.
2:03:58PM >>BILL CARLSON: TWO MORE ON THIS SECTION REAL FAST.
2:04:01PM THE NEXT ONE IS AN ADDITION OF 5.01-A, AND THIS HAS TO DO
2:04:07PM WITH THE MEMO THAT MS. ZELMAN SENT OUT LAST WEEK THAT IS A
2:04:15PM REITERATION OF A MEMO BY FORMER CITY ATTORNEY FROM FIVE OR
2:04:19PM SO YEARS AGO, WHERE THAT CITY ATTORNEY HAD THE OPINION THAT
2:04:24PM CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOLELY HAS THE RIGHT TO NOT ONLY
2:04:27PM NEGOTIATE SETTLEMENTS BUT ALSO SIGN THE CONTRACTS AND PAY
2:04:30PM THEM WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL.
2:04:32PM I'M COMPLETELY FINE IF WE WANT TO GIVE THEM THE RIGHT BY
2:04:35PM ORDINANCE TO DO THAT.
2:04:37PM HOWEVER, CONSIDERING THAT THERE IS AN OPINION BY A CITY
2:04:41PM ATTORNEY THAT IS WRONG, AND I WILL PASS THIS OUT, TOO, SINCE
2:04:47PM THERE'S AN OPINION BY A CITY ATTORNEY FROM 2018 THAT IS
2:04:50PM WRONG, WE NEED TO MUTT THIS IN THE CHARTER SO THAT WE DON'T
2:04:54PM GET A WRONG OPINION AGAIN.
2:04:56PM I MEAN, THIS OPINION IN TWO PARAGRAPHS CHANGED THE CHARTER.
2:05:02PM THE CHARTER DOES NOT IN ANY WAY SAY THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY

2:05:04PM CAN TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT OF CITY COUNCIL TO APPROVE CONTRACTS
2:05:09PM AND PAYMENT.
2:05:10PM WE CAN DELEGATE THAT TO THE CITY ATTORNEY BUT THEY DON'T
2:05:12PM HAVE THE RIGHT BY CHARTER.
2:05:14PM SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST AGAIN THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY,
2:05:17PM OUTSIDE ATTORNEY LOOK AT THIS AND EDIT IT WITH A PROPOSAL
2:05:21PM BACK ON THE FIRST DAY WE MEET AMENDMENT TO SECTION 5.01-A
2:05:26PM WHICH WOULD SAY NONE OF THE ABOVE SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO TAKE
2:05:30PM AWAY CITY COUNCIL'S RIGHT BY CHARTER TO APPROVE CONTRACT AND
2:05:32PM EXPENDITURES AS DEFINED IN SECTION 7.02 AND 8.01.
2:05:36PM >> MS. HURTAK?
2:05:42PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I AM GOING TO SECOND THIS AND I AM GOING TO
2:05:44PM SAY OF ALL OF THEM THIS IS THE ONE WE HEARD FROM CITIZENS IF
2:05:48PM MOST WHEN IT COMES TO THE HANNA AVENUE PROJECTS.
2:05:50PM WE HEARD FROM COUNTLESS PEOPLE THAT THIS IS -- OH, NO, THIS
2:05:59PM IS THE SETTLEMENT.
2:06:01PM WELL, YEAH.
2:06:01PM WE ALSO HAD SETTLEMENTS FOR LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAT WE
2:06:05PM SHOULD -- THAT HAPPENED TO THIS VERY COUNCIL, NOT THAT LONG
2:06:08PM AGO.
2:06:09PM THAT SHOULD HAVE COME BEFORE US.
2:06:12PM ANYTHING WITH SIX DIGITS SHOULD NOT BE JUST THE PURVIEW OF
2:06:17PM THE AD ADMINISTRATION.
2:06:19PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. VIERA?
2:06:23PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

2:06:25PM IT'S FUNNY.
2:06:25PM THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH WE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT WITH
2:06:29PM ORDINANCE OWN A LARGER WORKSHOP THAT WOULD TAKE SEVERAL
2:06:32PM HOURS TO TALK ABOUT THIS ONE SOLE ISSUE, BECAUSE THERE'S A
2:06:35PM LOT OF GRAY THERE WITH APPROVING OF SETTLEMENTS, ET CETERA.
2:06:39PM I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST GOT ON COUNCIL, WE USED TO APPROVE
2:06:43PM SETTLEMENTS, AND SUDDENLY IT NEVADA HAPPENED AGAIN, RIGHT?
2:06:48PM WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT?
2:06:49PM BUT THE CHALLENGE IS, WITH THE KIND OF SETTLEMENTS THAT ARE
2:06:52PM OUT THERE TO MAYBE WE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT SOMETHING ON
2:06:55PM APPROVING SETTLEMENTS, EITHER DEALING WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS
2:06:58PM OR SETTLEMENTS DEALING WITH ORDINANCES THAT WERE PASSED BY
2:07:02PM CITY COUNCIL, IF WE DO A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROVAL, WHICH
2:07:06PM AGAIN WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE -- AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO
2:07:08PM SECOND, BY THE WAY, A WORKSHOP ON THIS ISSUE -- BUT IF WE DO
2:07:12PM A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL CHARTER PROVISION, POTENTIALLY FOR
2:07:16PM SETTLEMENTS, ANYTHING FROM SIDEWALKS, SLIP AND FALLS, TO
2:07:20PM COMMERCIAL VEHICLES, PEDESTRIANS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, I
2:07:22PM DON'T KNOW HOW MANY SETTLEMENTS THIS CITY DEALS WITH.
2:07:25PM THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO APPROVING A SETTLEMENT, THE
2:07:31PM VERACITY OR CREDIBILITY OF A WITNESS, THINGS THAT HAPPEN
2:07:34PM THAT ONE PARTY KNOWS ABOUT THAT DOESN'T WANT THE ADVERSE
2:07:38PM PARTY TO KNOW ABOUT AND IT COULD COME OUT IN A HEARING TO
2:07:41PM APPROVE THAT VERY SETTLEMENT WHICH IS PREDICATED UPON
2:07:43PM CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

2:07:44PM SO THERE'S A LOT OF GRAY THERE, THAT BY GOING THERE, WE
2:07:48PM WOULD POTENTIALLY NOT DO A GOOD SERVICE TO THE CITY, BUT WE
2:07:52PM SHOULD DO, AND I WOULD STRONGLY SUPPORT A WORKSHOP FOR MAYBE
2:07:56PM A MORE NARROWLY TAILORED POLICY ON THIS ISSUE THROUGH
2:07:59PM ORDINANCE ON AGAIN THINGS DEALING WITH ORDINANCES THAT THE
2:08:04PM CITY COUNCIL PASSES, THINGS DIRECTED TO COUNCIL MEMBERS.
2:08:08PM THAT'S VERY, VERY REASONABLE.
2:08:09PM BUT AGAIN, THERE'S SO MUCH THAT GOES INTO SETTLING A CASE,
2:08:13PM RIGHT?
2:08:13PM THEY COULD GO OUT IN PUBLIC AND UNDERMINE THE SETTLEMENT OF
2:08:16PM THAT PARTICULAR CASE.
2:08:17PM AND THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL FOR THAT, TRUST ME.
2:08:19PM THANK YOU.
2:08:20PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:08:21PM YES, MS. HURTAK.
2:08:22PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THAT'S ON OUR AGENDA ON THURSDAY.
2:08:27PM >>LUIS VIERA: THERE YOU GO.
2:08:29PM >>LYNN HURTAK: BUT TO BRING THAT BACK, YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A
2:08:34PM REALLY GOOD POINT THAT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THESE USED TO
2:08:36PM COME IN FRONT OF US AND JUST STOPPED.
2:08:38PM SO IF THEY ALREADY CAME IN FRONT OF US, WE ARE ALREADY A
2:08:43PM PROBLEM, OR WERE A PROBLEM, RATHER, THEN WHY DID THEY STOP
2:08:46PM COMING IN FRONT OF US?
2:08:48PM TO ME THAT SEEMS MORE OF THE ISSUE OF HEY, IT WAS OKAY UNTIL
2:08:51PM THE ATTORNEY SAID IT'S NOT OKAY.

2:08:54PM AND JUST MAYBE UNANIMOUS MOTION AND JUST TOOK AWAY OUR
2:08:57PM POWER.
2:08:58PM AND I'M NOT COOL WITH POWER BEING TAKEN AWAY, ESPECIALLY IF
2:09:03PM SOMETHING THAT USED TO COME PRETTY REGULARLY IN FRONT OF US.
2:09:06PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:09:08PM MR. MIRANDA AND THEN MR. GUDES.
2:09:09PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
2:09:11PM I THINK THE WHOLE CONVERSATION HERE BASES ON TWO WORDS IN
2:09:14PM THIS MEMO SENT BACK IN AUGUST 16, 2018, AND IT SAYS, TO WORD
2:09:21PM THAT I JUST PICKED OUT, AND IT'S CALLED "LEGAL MATTERS."
2:09:26PM NOT ALL SETTLEMENT BUT LEGAL MATTERS.
2:09:29PM IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE'S A LAWSUIT GOING ON, AND WHOEVER
2:09:32PM THE CITY ATTORNEY IS MAKES A JUDGMENT DECISION THAT IT'S
2:09:37PM FINE TO PAY THAT AMOUNT NOW, OR PAY MORE LATER, THAT'S A
2:09:40PM DECISION THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE.
2:09:43PM I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO GO INTO A LEGAL MATTER AND UNDERSTAND
2:09:48PM WHAT THAT PERSON HAS YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN HANDLING THESE
2:09:51PM TYPES OF OPERATIONS IN THE COURTROOM TO FIND OUT WHO IS
2:09:56PM RIGHT, WHO IS WRONG.
2:09:57PM I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY.
2:09:58PM I DON'T PRACTICE LAW.
2:10:00PM BUT WHEN I READ THROUGH LEGAL MATTERS THAT TELLS ME THAT
2:10:04PM PERSON, WHOEVER THAT PERSON MAY BE, AND THIS COUNCIL, UPPERS
2:10:08PM THAT MAKES THAT DECISION, IT'S UP TO THAT PERSON, IN THIS
2:10:10PM CASE THE CITY ATTORNEY WHO MAKES A DECISION, SHOULD I PAY

2:10:14PM THIS AMOUNT OR SHOULD I WAIT, GO TO TRIAL AND WHATEVER?
2:10:18PM THOSE ARE LEGAL MATTERS.
2:10:19PM AND I DON'T THINK MAYBE MR. VIERA, WHO IS AN ATTORNEY, AND
2:10:24PM THIS SIDE OF THE AISLE, DIRECTED OFFICIALS TO MAKE THAT
2:10:27PM DECISION.
2:10:27PM I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE MAKING IT WITH ANYBODY ELSE UNLESS
2:10:31PM IT'S SOMEBODY IN THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT THAT MAKES THAT
2:10:34PM DECISION, THAT IT'S A LEGAL MATTER, AND BASED ON THE
2:10:37PM EXPERIENCE OF THAT PERSON, THAT'S WHY -- I AM NOT SAYING
2:10:40PM IT'S 100% CORRECT. I AM SAYING I WOULD RATHER NOT COME
2:10:44PM HERE.
2:10:48PM >> THANK YOU FOR PINPOINTING THE SPECIFICS.
2:10:50PM MR. GUDES.
2:10:50PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: IN MY POSITION OVER ON THE SPORTS
2:10:55PM AUTHORITY --
2:10:58PM >> I MISSED THAT.
2:11:00PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WE HAVE LEGAL MATTERS TO A CLOSED SESSION,
2:11:05PM AND THE ATTORNEY DISCUSSES THE LEGAL MATTER.
2:11:07PM AND THEY DISCUSS THE SETTLEMENTS, THEY DISCUSS THE ISSUES,
2:11:10PM SO WE WERE INFORMED SO YOU COULD MAKE A DECISION, IF YOU
2:11:13PM WANT TO PAY THAT, THEY GIVE YOU OPTIONS.
2:11:16PM SO THERE'S A WAY TO DO THINGS.
2:11:18PM AND I CAN TAKE THE SPORTS AUTHORITY DOES IT RIGHT OVER THERE
2:11:20PM BECAUSE THEY GO INTO SESSION, AND THEY LOOK AT WHAT THE
2:11:23PM ATTORNEY COMES BACK, TELLING THEM WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE AND

2:11:26PM SO FORTH.
2:11:27PM AND IN THAT WAY THE ATTORNEY KNOWS HOW TO TAKE THE LEAD FROM
2:11:30PM THE BOARD.
2:11:32PM YOU KNOW, AND I HAVE READ A LOT OF DOCUMENTS AND WE TALK
2:11:35PM ABOUT SETTLEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND MR. SHELBY, I
2:11:39PM BELIEVE HR IS SUPPOSED TO BRING THE LIST OF SETTLEMENTS
2:11:44PM BACK.
2:11:44PM WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY ANYTHING, RIGHT?
2:11:47PM SUPPOSED TO BRING IT BACK AND SAY WHAT WAS SETTLED.
2:11:49PM AND I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT EVER.
2:11:52PM SO I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, AGAIN, WE TALK ABOUT THESE
2:11:55PM ISSUES, CHARLIE, BUT GENERALLY WE LOOK AT IT, THERE ARE SOME
2:11:58PM DISCREPANCIES HERE, AND I KNOW SOME DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH
2:12:01PM IT TODAY, AND THAT'S FINE.
2:12:02PM BUT SOME DAY WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
2:12:04PM EVEN IF IT'S TEN YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, WHICH NOW AS I SAT ON
2:12:08PM THAT BOARD, TEN YEARS IS TOO LONG.
2:12:11PM IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIVE.
2:12:13PM SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIVE.
2:12:14PM BECAUSE THERE ARE ISSUES HERE, AND MAYBE THIS BOARD, AND
2:12:18PM EVENTUALLY MAKE A MOTION TO CHANGE AND REVERSE THAT, BECAUSE
2:12:21PM WE DON'T WANT TO GET ELECTION YEAR -- NOBODY WANTS TO ROCK
2:12:24PM THE BOAT.
2:12:25PM I GET IT. I'M NOT A POLITICS GUY. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BEING
2:12:27PM REELECTED.

2:12:28PM JUST CARE ABOUT DOING MY WORK RIGHT NOW FOR THE PEOPLE AND
2:12:31PM THEY GIVE ME MY WORKING ORDERS. I'M GOING TO WORK ON WHAT
2:12:33PM I'M SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW.
2:12:34PM AND I WILL DEAL WITH THE REST LATER.
2:12:36PM I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE NOT DOING BECAUSE A
2:12:39PM LOT OF THINGS WE ARE NOT DOING IN LEGAL MATTERS.
2:12:42PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:12:44PM MR. CARLSON.
2:12:45PM >>BILL CARLSON: I AM GOING TO READ THIS AND THEN I AM GOING
2:12:49PM TO LEAVE OUT A FEW WORD.
2:12:51PM BUT THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY TO SETTLE ANY
2:12:53PM LEGAL MATTERS THAT INVOLVE THE CITY OF TAMPA, THIS INCLUDES
2:12:57PM THE AUTHORITY TO SETTLE ALL CLAIMS AND LITIGATIONS INVOLVING
2:12:59PM THE CITY OF TAMPA, AS SUCH, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SUBMIT
2:13:05PM THE SETTLEMENT OF ANY LEGAL CLAIM TO THE CITY COUNCIL, THE
2:13:08PM CITY OF TAMPA FOR APPROVAL.
2:13:09PM ANY RESOLUTIONS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ORDERS IN CONFLICT WITH
2:13:14PM SECTION 5.01 OF THE CITY CHARTER AND CITY OF TAMPA IS NULL
2:13:18PM AND VOID AND UNENFORCEABLE.
2:13:20PM THIS IS FROM A TWO PARAGRAPH OPINION FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY
2:13:23PM IN 2018.
2:13:25PM COUNCILMAN MEMBER VIERA MENTIONED THAT CITY COUNCIL WAS
2:13:27PM PRESENTED SETTLEMENTS BEFORE, AND SUDDENLY THEY DISAPPEARED.
2:13:29PM I DON'T EACH KNOW, I WASN'T HERE THEN.
2:13:31PM I DON'T NOT IF CITY COUNCIL WAS INFORMED.

2:13:33PM BUT A CITY ATTORNEY MADE A DECISION TO CHANGE THE CHARTER
2:13:37PM AND THE VOTERS DIDN'T VOTE ON THIS.
2:13:39PM IF YOU LOOK AT 7.02 AND 8.01, CLEARLY IN THE CHARTER CITY
2:13:43PM COUNCIL HAS THE ABILITY TO APPROVE CONTRACTS AND
2:13:46PM EXPENDITURES.
2:13:46PM NOW, TO COUNCILMAN MEMBER VIERA'S POINT, WE CAN DELEGATE
2:13:51PM THAT AND WE MIGHT DECIDE TO DELEGATE THAT ON THURSDAY BUT WE
2:13:55PM DECIDE TO DELEGATE ON THURSDAY, IF WE PROPOSE AN ORDINANCE
2:13:58PM ON THURSDAY, DO WE SAY WE WOULD LIKE TO DELEGATE SETTLEMENTS
2:14:02PM BELOW A CERTAIN DOLLAR AMOUNT OF A CERTAIN TYPE, IS THE CITY
2:14:05PM ATTORNEY GOING TO STAND UP AND SAY, WELL, FORMER CITY
2:14:08PM ATTORNEY ON JUNE 18 SAID THIS AND HIS OPINION IS LIKE THE
2:14:11PM SUPREME COURT, AND SO WE ARE GOING TO LISTEN TO THAT AND WE
2:14:15PM DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
2:14:17PM THAT'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
2:14:18PM SO WITHOUT HAVING A LONGER DISCUSSION, I WOULD ASK THE CITY
2:14:21PM ATTORNEY TO PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE NEW CITY ATTORNEY TO
2:14:24PM UNDERSTAND THAT SHE REPRESENTS CITY COUNCIL, SHE SAID IN HER
2:14:27PM MEMO THAT SHE'S OPEN TO US AS PASSING AN ORDINANCE, AND IF
2:14:31PM SHE ALLOWS US TO PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT MEANS THIS ORDINANCE
2:14:34PM WILL BE NULL AND VOID.
2:14:35PM AND THAT'S MY GOAL ON THURSDAY.
2:14:38PM BECAUSE OF THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PUT THIS ON THE CHARTER TO
2:14:40PM MAKE SURE NO CITY ATTORNEY DOES THIS AGAIN.
2:14:42PM WE ARE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.

2:14:43PM WE ALREADY HAVE THE POWER. WE ARE JUST CLARIFYING THAT WE
2:14:46PM HAVE THE POWER AND THEN WE CAN DELEGATE IT.
2:14:48PM WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT ALL SETTLEMENTS SHOULD COME TO US.
2:14:51PM WE CAN CHANGE THAT BY ORDINANCE.
2:14:52PM ALL WE ARE DOING IS REITERATING THAT BY 7.02 AND 8.01 WE
2:14:56PM ALREADY HAVE THE POWER BUT WE HAVE BEEN USURPED BY THIS 2018
2:15:00PM OPINION THAT DID NOT GO BEFORE VOTERS.
2:15:02PM THANK YOU.
2:15:02PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: BASICALLY WHAT YOU JUST SUBMITTED HERE IS
2:15:09PM CLARIFICATION LANGUAGE.
2:15:10PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES, IT JUST REINFORCES WHAT IS ALREADY
2:15:14PM TRUE SO WE DON'T GET A BIASED OPINION LIKE THIS ONE IN 2018.
2:15:19PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. MIRANDA.
2:15:24PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I AM NOT OPPOSED TO SOMETHING BEING
2:15:25PM CHANGED.
2:15:26PM BUT I DON'T THINK THAT-OH HE WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT.
2:15:30PM WE DON'T KNOW WHAT NUMBER WE ARE GOING TO PUT.
2:15:33PM IT COULD BE $5, 100,000, 20,000.
2:15:37PM WE HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT.
2:15:38PM I THINK MR. VIERA HAD A GOOD POINT.
2:15:40PM I AM NOT SUPPOSED OPPOSED TO MAKING THIS CHANGE.
2:15:43PM WHAT I AM OPPOSED IS TO IS WE DON'T KNOW THE WHAT-IFS.
2:15:48PM WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO TELL US.
2:15:51PM WE DON'T KNOW THE AMOUNT WE ARE GOING TO SETTLE ON.
2:15:54PM AND $400.

2:15:58PM NO, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
2:16:00PM BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME UNDERSTANDING OF THE FACT.
2:16:03PM I AM NOT OPPOSED TO IT BUT I CAN'T VOTE ON IT BASIS DON'T
2:16:06PM KNOW ALL THE FACTS.
2:16:09PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: TO CLARIFY YOU ARE ASKING FOR SOME
2:16:11PM PARAMETERS SO YOU CAN FEEL LIKE YOU COULD VOTE ONE WAY OR
2:16:16PM THE OTHER.
2:16:17PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: CORRECT.
2:16:18PM >>BILL CARLSON:
2:16:20PM >>LUIS VIERA: CART BEFORE THE HORSE, THIS IS SOMETHING
2:16:23PM MAYBE AFTER THURSDAY ONCE WE DEFINED THE PERIMETERS, I COULD
2:16:28PM SUPPORTIVE OF IT BUT A CART BEFORE THE HORSE.
2:16:31PM THAT'S IT.
2:16:32PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: GOOD CLARIFICATION.
2:16:35PM CALLING FOR A VOTE AS IT STANDS.
2:16:39PM WE HAVE THREE.
2:16:40PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK AND MR. GUDES.
2:16:44PM SO IT DOES NOT PASS AS STATED.
2:16:46PM >>BILL CARLSON: MY LAST ONE, MIAMI HAS AN ATTORNEY FOR THE
2:16:54PM MAYOR, AND IF WE ARE GOING TO DEMAND JUST REJECT ALL OF
2:16:59PM THEM, BUT BY THE WAY ANYTHING THAT'S JUST REJECTED YOU IT'S
2:17:03PM ALREADY IN THE CHARTER.
2:17:04PM THESE THINGS ALREADY EXIST.
2:17:05PM WE ARE NOT CHANGING CITY COUNCIL AUTHORITY.
2:17:07PM ALL WE ARE DOING IS PROTECTING THEM SO A FUTURE CITY

2:17:10PM ATTORNEY CAN'T COME UP WITH AN OPINION LIKE THIS.
2:17:14PM BUT I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO MODIFY 5 MONTE 01 A.
2:17:20PM LET ME PASS THIS OUT.
2:17:21PM JUST TO SAY THAT ADD AN ADDITIONAL PARAGRAPH THAT SAYS THE
2:17:25PM MAYOR MAY APPOINT AN ATTORNEY TO REPRESENT THE MAYOR'S
2:17:27PM OFFICE, THIS ATTORNEY WOULD BE DULY LICENSED WITH THE
2:17:30PM FLORIDA BAR AND WOULD ADVISE THE MAYOR IN HIS OR HER ROLE AS
2:17:34PM MAYOR, NOT AS AN INDIVIDUAL.
2:17:36PM THE MAYOR'S ATTORNEY WOULD PROVIDE LEGAL OPINIONS TO THE
2:17:38PM MAYOR BASED ON THE ATTORNEY'S INTERPRETATION OF LAW.
2:17:41PM HOWEVER, NO ACTION OR OPINION OF THE MAYOR'S ATTORNEY SHALL
2:17:43PM BE CONSTRUED TO BE THE OFFICIAL LEGAL POSITION OF THE CITY,
2:17:47PM AND SUCH OFFICIAL LEGAL POSITION AND ACTIONS SHALL SLOWLY --
2:17:52PM SHALL BE SOLELY WITHIN THE SCOPE AND POWERS OF THE CITY
2:17:56PM ATTORNEY.
2:17:56PM SO ALL THIS REALLY DOES IS JUST LIKE CITY COUNCIL HAS AN
2:18:00PM ATTORNEY, THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE AN ATTORNEY.
2:18:02PM AND FURTHER, THIS IS A NEW POSITION, THIS WOULD BE A CHANGE,
2:18:06PM AND THE PURPOSE OF IT IS SO THAT THE PUBLIC AND THE CITY
2:18:10PM ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NOT MISCONSTRUE TO THEIR CLIENTS NOT ONLY
2:18:17PM THE MAYOR AS REPRESENTED IN THE PAST, THEIR CLIENT IS ALL
2:18:19PM THE CLIENTS THAT ARE LISTED IN THE CHARTER.
2:18:22PM SO BY HAVING A MAYOR'S ATTORNEY, THE MAYOR COULD GET ADVICE,
2:18:24PM AN NOT REPRESENTING MAYOR INDIVIDUALLY IN OFFICE AND THEN
2:18:28PM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE COULD BE MORE OBJECTIVE BECAUSE

2:18:30PM CITY COUNCIL ALREADY HAS ITS ATTORNEY AS WELL.
2:18:32PM >>LYNN HURTAK: SECOND.
2:18:35PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU SAID THIS WOULD BE A
2:18:38PM NEW POSITION?
2:18:39PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
2:18:40PM IT WOULD FURTHER HELP TO CREATE OBJECTIVITY AT THE CITY
2:18:42PM ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
2:18:44PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE HAVE A SECOND WITH MRS. MS. HURTAK.
2:18:47PM TAMPA A VOTE ON THIS TO PASS IT AS IT IS.
2:18:49PM WE HAVE THREE, MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK AND MR. GUDES.
2:18:52PM >>BILL CARLSON: THAT'S ALL I HAVE ON THAT SECTION.
2:18:54PM THANK YOU.
2:18:54PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:19:03PM ARTICLE 6, SECTION 6, STARTS WITH OFFICERS AND GOES
2:19:07PM THROUGH -- AGAIN LOOKING AT SUPPLEMENT 135, GOES UP TO 6.08
2:19:13PM WHICH IS THE CHANGES.
2:19:24PM DOES ANYONE HAVE A DISCUSSION POINT ON ANY OF THOSE
2:19:26PM SECTIONS? PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND.
2:19:29PM YES, MR. GUDES.
2:19:29PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: 6.03.
2:19:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: APPOINTMENTS.
2:19:36PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: MR. SHELBY, I SUBMITTED ONE THAT WASN'T
2:19:40PM ADDED ON THIS SHEET OF PAPER.
2:19:43PM AND IT RELATES TO REMITTANCE OF THE NOMINEE.
2:19:47PM BUT I THINK FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, IF YOU LOOK AT THE

2:19:51PM EXAMPLE OF COLLECTIVE LANGUAGE, THE CHANGE SHALL BE SHALL
2:19:58PM NOMINATE, ALLOW FOR INTERNAL APPOINTMENT, UNTIL CONFIRMATION
2:20:01PM OF A NOMINEE BY CITY COUNCIL, SHALL BE A PERIOD OF 930 DAYS,
2:20:06PM WHICH MAY BE EXTENDED FOR AN ADDITIONAL 90 DAYS AND FILLED
2:20:09PM ONLY WITH A PERSON WHO IS AN EXISTING EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY.
2:20:12PM AND IN THAT SHOULD BE ADDED, THAT THAT PERSON, IF THE
2:20:18PM NOMINEE IS STRICKEN DOWN BY THIS COUNCIL, CANNOT BE
2:20:21PM RESUBMITTED.
2:20:22PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:20:28PM AND SO YOU ARE PRIMARILY FOCUSING ON THE WORD APPOINT AND
2:20:32PM CHANGE THAT TO NOMINATE.
2:20:34PM I DO HEAR YOU CORRECTLY?
2:20:36PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES.
2:20:37PM >>BILL CARLSON:
2:20:37PM >> SECOND.
2:20:39PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YE QUESTION ON THE MOTION.
2:20:40PM DID YOU SAY THE NOMINATION HAS TO BE FROM WITHIN AN EXISTING
2:20:44PM EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY?
2:20:46PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THAT'S CORRECT.
2:20:49PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'M SORRY.
2:20:50PM I'M LOOKING AT THE MEMO.
2:20:53PM I BELIEVE THAT WAS INTERIM.
2:20:57PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: INTERIM.
2:20:59PM AND SELECT SOMEBODY BEFORE SOME PERSON FROM THE CITY, A CITY
2:21:05PM EMPLOYEE, AND THEN THEY COULD NOMINATE WHOEVER THEY WANT, TO

2:21:08PM BRING IT BEFORE YOURSELF FOR SELECTION.
2:21:11PM BUT TO TAKE SOMEBODY AND PUT THEM IN A POSITION AND NOMINATE
2:21:15PM APPROVED BY THIS BODY.
2:21:17PM BUTT IF YOU ARE A CITY EMPLOYEE CAN FILL THAT VOID BECAUSE
2:21:21PM THEY KNOW CITY POLICIES AND BUSINESS ALREADY, UNTIL THE
2:21:24PM APPOINTMENT IS MADE.
2:21:24PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. VIERA.
2:21:29PM >>LUIS VIERA: AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
2:21:31PM THIS IS ONE THAT MAKES SENSE.
2:21:32PM AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY THIS PART MAKES MORE SENSE.
2:21:36PM BUT I WOULD FIND SOME PROBLEMATIC ISSUES WITH THE IDEA THAT
2:21:39PM 23 COUNCIL TURNS IT DOWN, THEN THE MAYOR MAY NOT PIN HIM OR
2:21:44PM HER THERE AGAIN.
2:21:45PM MAYBE THAT'S TOO MUCH ON THE EXECUTIVE.
2:21:47PM BUT OTHER ISSUES, AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY PAST
2:21:53PM EXPERIENCES.
2:21:53PM I VOTED FOR CHIEF O'CONNOR, AND I KNOW SHE'S DOING A
2:21:56PM WONDERFUL JOB, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, AND I SUPPORT HER.
2:21:59PM BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF POINTING SOMEBODY, AND
2:22:04PM THEY ARE ON THE JOB WITHIN LONGER THAN THAT 15 DAYS, IN
2:22:07PM OTHER WORDS, KIND OF TIGHTENING UP, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
2:22:09PM COULD MAKE SOME SENSE TO THIS GUY.
2:22:11PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO MR. VIERA, YOU ARE ALSO LOOKING AT THE
2:22:15PM TIME FRAME THAT'S INVOLVED AS THE TWO WORDS, APPOINT
2:22:19PM VERSUS -- I MEAN NOMINATE VERSUS APPOINT.

2:22:22PM MR. GUDES?
2:22:23PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: IF THAT PERSON -- IF A VACANCY IS OPEN AND
2:22:31PM A CITY EMPLOYEE IS ALREADY CURRENTLY HERE IS FILLING THAT
2:22:33PM VOID, THAT PERSON, IF THE MAYOR, HE OR SHE SAYS THAT'S MY
2:22:39PM PERSON OR MY GUY, THEY STILL GO FOR THE APPOINTMENT.
2:22:42PM SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BECAUSE THEY GO
2:22:45PM FOR APPOINTMENT BUT IF THEY ARE DENIED BY THE COUNCIL THEY
2:22:48PM ARE DENIED.
2:22:49PM BUT IF A PERSON IS IN AN APPOINTED POSITION, AND MRS.
2:22:52PM HURTAK, YOU KNOW CITY BUSINESS, AND TRY TO DECIDE IF YOU
2:22:56PM WANT TO WORK THIS JOB, YOU APPLY JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE, AND
2:23:00PM MIGHT TAKE MY LIST, AND I LOOK AT MY LIST AND YOU MAY NOT BE
2:23:03PM THAT PERSON, I CHOSE SOMEBODY ELSE, AND YOU GO BEFORE THE
2:23:06PM COUNCIL.
2:23:06PM AND IF THE COUNCIL DENIES YOU, THAT'S IT.
2:23:08PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF.
2:23:15PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. MIRANDA, YES.
2:23:16PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
2:23:18PM IF A MAYOR, WHOEVER THAT MAYOR MAY BE, CHOOSES SOMEONE TO BE
2:23:25PM HEAD OF SOMETHING, AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AFTER THE MAYOR
2:23:29PM IS HERE 15 DAYS, OH ARE IN THAT 15 DAYS, COUNCIL HAS TO
2:23:34PM APPOINT A DEPARTMENT HEAD.
2:23:37PM AND THEN TAKE THAT PERSON SHOULD BE -- WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
2:23:43PM RESIDENCY INCLUDED, OR JUST THE PERSON?
2:23:47PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: PERSON.

2:23:49PM RESIDENCY IS SOMETHING ELSE.
2:23:50PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I THINK THAT MAYOR WHOEVER HE OR SHE IS
2:23:55PM HAS THE RIGHT TO APPOINT SOMEBODY, AND IF THE COUNCIL SLATE
2:23:58PM IS GIVEN AND YOU VOTE INDIVIDUALLY, IF YOU WANT TO VOTE ON
2:24:01PM THE WHOLE SLATE YOU CAN.
2:24:03PM BUT I DON'T SEE, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
2:24:06PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:24:09PM OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT?
2:24:15PM DO WE HAVE A MOTION?
2:24:22PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, TO WORSE THE WORD FROM APPOINT TO
2:24:24PM NOMINATE.
2:24:26PM AND THE INTERIM PERSON HAS TO BE -- THE INTERIM PERSON, AND
2:24:33PM AGAIN HAS TO BE A CITY EMPLOYEE.
2:24:35PM IF THE MAYOR WANTS TO TAKE THAT PERSON LATER ON, THAT'S
2:24:38PM FINE.
2:24:39PM AND COME TO THE BOARD FOR APPOINTMENT.
2:24:41PM THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE --
2:24:49PM >>LYNN HURTAK: IT'S NUMBER 8 IF YOU HAVE THE SUGGESTIONS
2:24:51PM FROM MR. SHELBY.
2:24:54PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES, IT IS, NUMBER 8.
2:24:56PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WITH REGARD TO NUMBER 8, MR. GUDES, YOU
2:25:01PM HAD AN ISSUE WITH AN OMISSION IN THAT BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO
2:25:04PM SAY SOMETHING ABOUT -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS PART OF YOUR
2:25:07PM MOTION OR TO TAKE THAT OUT ABOUT RESUBMITTING.
2:25:10PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: NOT GOING TO RESUBMIT TEN TIMES.

2:25:14PM IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, YOU KNOW.
2:25:18PM I THINK THERE WAS ONE, WHEN YOU GO THROUGH, COUNCIL VOTES IT
2:25:23PM DOWN, IT'S DONE.
2:25:26PM THE MAYOR CAN APPOINT ANOTHER CANDIDATE.
2:25:28PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: CAN WE CLARIFY FOR THE NOTETAKER THE
2:25:35PM MOTION WITH THE WORDING AND THEN WE'LL SEE IF WE HAVE A
2:25:38PM SECOND?
2:25:45PM MR. GUDES, DID YOU WANT TO RESTATE YOUR MOTION WITH THE WORD
2:25:49PM THAT I HEARD MR. SHELBY MENTION?
2:25:53PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I THINK MS. HURTAK DID.
2:25:54PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I CAN GIVE YOU THAT LANGUAGE.
2:25:58PM AN INTERIM PERSON -- I SEE WHAT YOU ARE TYPING -- AN INTERIM
2:26:02PM PERSON HAS TO BE AN EXISTING EMPLOYEE, AND DOWN AT THE
2:26:09PM BOTTOM, THE SECOND SENTENCE FROM THE END, SECOND TO THE LAST
2:26:15PM SENTENCE, I SUPPOSE, IT SAYS, THE MAYOR WITHIN 90 DAYS
2:26:19PM THEREAFTER SHALL SUBMIT OR RESUBMIT TO THE COUNCIL THE NAME
2:26:23PM OF THE APPOINTEE.
2:26:26PM COUNCIL MEMBER GUDES WANTS TO TAKE OUT THE WORDS "OR
2:26:29PM RESUBMIT" TO MAKE A PERSON HAVE ONLY ONE OPTION, ONE BITE AT
2:26:34PM THE APPLE, SO TO SPEAK.
2:26:36PM DID I GET THAT CORRECT?
2:26:39PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: CORRECT.
2:26:40PM AND THE WORD APPOINT TO NOMINATE.
2:26:42PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES, BUT SHE'S GOT THAT PART OF IT.
2:26:46PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

2:26:47PM MR. CARLSON, YES.
2:26:48PM LET'S CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS.
2:26:52PM WE HAVE THREE.
2:26:53PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
2:27:00PM IT DOES NOT PASS AT THIS POINT.
2:27:02PM >>BILL CARLSON: I HAVE ANOTHER ONE.
2:27:04PM THIS COULD EITHER GO -- MY MEMO SAYS 7.03 BUT I AM GOING TO
2:27:10PM SUGGEST 6.06.
2:27:14PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: 6.06?
2:27:16PM SALARIES?
2:27:17PM >>BILL CARLSON: YES.
2:27:18PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YE OKAY.
2:27:20PM >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK THAT CITY COUNCIL SHOULD NEVER HAVE
2:27:22PM TO VOTE ON ITS SALARY AGAIN.
2:27:26PM I KNOW COUNCILMAN VIERA IS CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN A SALARY
2:27:32PM RISE TAKES PLACE.
2:27:33PM BUT WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO VOTE ON A SALARY AGAIN.
2:27:37PM ALSO, ALTHOUGH THE MAYOR IS EXECUTIVE, WE ALSO, CITY COUNCIL
2:27:45PM IS IN CHARGE OF LOOKING THROUGH -- WE ALL INDIVIDUALLY,
2:27:49PM BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVEN OF US DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO DO ANY
2:27:52PM LESS WORK.
2:27:52PM WE HAVE TO INDIVIDUALLY LOOK THROUGH ALL THE SAME DOCUMENT
2:27:56PM AND READ A THOUSAND PAGES A WEEK OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND
2:27:59PM CLOSELY WATCH THE BUDGET.
2:28:01PM AND SO I AGREE THAT WE SHOULDN'T GET WHAT THE MAYOR GETS,

2:28:04PM BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET SOME SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF IT.
2:28:07PM AND SO I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY'S
2:28:13PM OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO LOOK AT SECTION 6.06 AND REVIEW THE
2:28:18PM FOLLOWING LANGUAGE FOR A PROPOSAL TO CITY COUNCIL AT THE
2:28:22PM FIRST DATE OF REHEARING, AND MY PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS, QUOTE,
2:28:28PM ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS CITY STAFF AND/OR OUTSIDE CONSULTANT
2:28:31PM WILL CONDUCT AN ANALYSIS OF THE SALARIES OF MAYORS OF THE
2:28:34PM FIVE LARGEST CITIES IN FLORIDA AND/OR AMERICAN CITIES OF A
2:28:38PM SIMILAR SIZE TO RECOMMEND A NEW SALARY OF THE MAYOR.
2:28:41PM THIS NEW SALARY OF THE MAYOR MUST BE APPROVED BY CITY
2:28:43PM COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR.
2:28:44PM CITY COUNCIL SALARIES WILL THEN BE SET AT 60 PERCENT OF THE
2:28:48PM MAYOR'S SALARY.
2:28:49PM THESE SALARIES WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANNUAL COST OF LIVING
2:28:51PM INCREASES.
2:28:52PM IF WE PASS THIS, YOU MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH THE PERCENTAGE.
2:28:55PM I THINK AT LEAST 60% BECAUSE WE DO A LOT OF THE SAME WORK
2:28:59PM BUT IF WE ARE NOT, PICK ANOTHER NUMBER.
2:29:01PM BUT EVEN MORRIS MASSEY RECOMMENDED WE BRING THIS UP IN A
2:29:06PM SESSION A FEW WEEKS AGO.
2:29:08PM MY PARTICULAR SOLUTION IS THAT THE BEST KIND OF BEVERAGE
2:29:12PM BENCHMARKING IS TO LOOK AT WHAT OTHER MAYORS ARE MAKING.
2:29:15PM I THINK OUR MAYOR IS PAID TOO LITTLE, NOT THE PERSON BUT THE
2:29:18PM POSITION.
2:29:20PM BUT IF WE LOOK AT THE FIVE LARGEST CITIES AND LOOK AT CITIES

2:29:24PM OF A SIMILAR SIZE AND FIND THAT THE SALARY IS CORRECT OR
2:29:27PM SHOULD BE HIGHER OR LOWER, THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND SAY,
2:29:30PM OKAY, IN IS WHAT IT WILL BE.
2:29:32PM AND THEN CITY COUNCIL IS JUST SET UP AS A PERCENTAGE OF
2:29:36PM THAT, AND WE NEVER HAVE TO VOTE ON OUR SALARY AGAIN.
2:29:39PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:29:41PM IF I MIGHT, JUST A PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
2:29:43PM IT'S NOW AT 2:30 AND CHECKING ON WHAT IS YOUR SENSE FOR HOW
2:29:47PM LONG YOU WANT THIS MEETING TO CONTINUE?
2:29:53PM CHAIRMAN CITRO?
2:29:55PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: WELL, FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES TO GET
2:29:57PM THROUGH THE CHARTERS.
2:29:59PM I WAS HOPING WE WOULD BE FURTHER ALONG THAN WE ARE RIGHT
2:30:03PM NOW.
2:30:04PM WHAT IS THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL?
2:30:06PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I HAVE TO BE -- AT 3:15 AND I CANNOT MISS
2:30:13PM IT.
2:30:13PM SO GOING TO THE QUESTIONS ON THE FLOOR, OR DISCUSSION, 60%
2:30:17PM OF 180 IS $108,000.
2:30:20PM SO THE MAYOR ENDS UP -- COUNCIL MEMBERS MAKE 120,000.
2:30:24PM THE THREE LARGEST CITIES AROUND IT WHICH IS ORLANDO, MIAMI,
2:30:28PM AND ST. PETERSBURG, I THINK, WE ARE ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS
2:30:32PM DIFFERENCE IN SALARIES TODAY, SO ONE OF THE CITIES, ONE AT
2:30:34PM 54, ONE AT 58, ONE AT 60.
2:30:38PM THOSE ARE MY MEMORIES GOING BY MIND.

2:30:40PM SO DON'T TAKE MY MIND BECAUSE WHEN THE SUN IT'S HITS YOU GET
2:30:43PM A LITTLE RADIATION, YOU GET THE CELLS WORKING REAL GOOD, BUT
2:30:45PM IN COLD WEATHER YOU CAN'T TAKE IT.
2:30:47PM SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS MY MIND IS RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT THE
2:30:49PM SALARIES COME TO.
2:30:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:30:55PM WE'LL COME BACK TO THE PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
2:30:58PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I AM GOING TO SECOND THAT ABOUT COUNCILMAN
2:31:01PM CARLSON QUESTIONS, AND I THINK TO ME THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL
2:31:05PM AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION, BECAUSE EVERYONE HERE IS
2:31:08PM SAYING, OH, WE ARE PAID TOO MUCH, OR NOT, YOU KNOW, AN EQUAL
2:31:13PM AMOUNT.
2:31:14PM THIS ACTUALLY PUTS THAT DECISION IN THE HAND OF THE VOTERS.
2:31:17PM TAKES IT OUT OF OUR HANDS.
2:31:20PM AND I THINK THAT THAT'S EXACTLY FOR THE FOLKS WHO ARE SAYING
2:31:24PM WE DON'T NEED AN INCREASE, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO SAY WE DO, WE
2:31:28PM HAVE PEOPLE WHO SAY WE DON'T.
2:31:29PM THIS LITERALLY JUST PUTS IT IN THE HAND OF VOTERS.
2:31:32PM I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.
2:31:34PM I AM OPEN TO CHANGING THE PERSONAL, BUT I THINK IT'S PRETTY
2:31:37PM MUCH EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO.
2:31:39PM AND AS FAR AS THE PROCEDURAL RULE, I CAN STAY HERE ALL
2:31:43PM NIGHT.
2:31:43PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:31:47PM SO SHE GAVE CLARIFICATION THAT THE PERCENT -- PERCENT MAY BE

2:31:53PM MODIFIED BUT THE OVERALL LANGUAGE IS APPROPRIATE.
2:31:57PM MR. MANISCALCO?
2:31:58PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
2:31:59PM AS I STATED RECENTLY, I DIDN'T COME HERE FOR THE MONEY, I
2:32:03PM CAME HERE TO SERVE, THE PEOPLE ALLOWED ME TO COME HERE AND
2:32:09PM ALLOWED ME TO SERVE, AND I AM HAPPY DOING WHAT I AM DOING.
2:32:12PM SOME DAYS ARE EASIER THAN OTHERS.
2:32:14PM AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S A COMMUNITY SERVICE.
2:32:16PM YES, WE GET PAID, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IN SUPPORTING A SALARY
2:32:20PM INCREASE, JUST LIKE MY WIFE, SHE'S A TEACHER.
2:32:23PM SHE COMES STRESSED EVERY DAY.
2:32:25PM SHE COMPLAINS A LOT.
2:32:26PM SHE WORKS VERY HARD, AND SHE -- TEACHERS DON'T GET PAID
2:32:30PM ENOUGH MONEY.
2:32:31PM SO IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY.
2:32:32PM SHE LOVES WHAT SHE DOES.
2:32:34PM SO SHE LEAVES IT AT THAT, AND FACE AS NEW DAY.
2:32:37PM SO THANK YOU.
2:32:38PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:32:41PM MR. CITRO.
2:32:42PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU, MS. SCHROEDER.
2:32:45PM I THINK THE JOB NEEDS TO BE DEFINED ON WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A
2:32:49PM PART-TIME JOB OR FULL TIME JOB.
2:32:51PM I DON'T KNOW OF TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT THERE MAKING
2:32:53PM $97,000 FOR A PART-TIME JOB.

2:32:57PM I WILL BE HERE AT 8:00 IN THE MORNING, I WILL STAY HERE
2:33:01PM UNTIL MIDNIGHT, WHICH I HAVE.
2:33:03PM SEVERAL OF US HAVE.
2:33:05PM BUT TO SET THAT KIND OF PAY SCALE FOR A PART-TIME JOB, I
2:33:10PM CANNOT VOTE FOR THAT.
2:33:12PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I THINK HAD YOU ONE, MR. MIRANDA.
2:33:24PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A 42% RAISE.
2:33:27PM I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S EQUITABLE TO THE PUBLIC TO WHAT
2:33:31PM THEY WERE GOING TO GET.
2:33:32PM KNOW IT THAT WE DON'T WORK HARD.
2:33:33PM WE DO.
2:33:34PM BUT THERE'S A SENSITIVITY OF DOING WHAT YOU CAN TO MAKE THE
2:33:36PM CITY BETTER, NOT ONLY FOR MYSELF BUT ALL THE OTHER SIX
2:33:39PM COLLEAGUES, AND SALARY IS ONE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT.
2:33:42PM I AM NOT GOING TO DENY THAT.
2:33:43PM HOWEVER, 42% BASED ON THE FORMULA WHETHER IT'S 60% OR 40%,
2:33:49PM WHATEVER IT IS, THIS IS REPRESENTED BY A 70% INCREASE IN
2:33:52PM SALARY.
2:33:53PM AND QUICKLY OFF MY MIND.
2:33:56PM SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS, I DON'T MIND WHATEVER 4%, WHATEVER
2:34:03PM GENERAL EMPLOYEES GET.
2:34:04PM WELL, THE MAYOR.
2:34:04PM THEY ARE THE ONES MAKING THE CITY GO.
2:34:06PM WE ARE MAKING THE CITY ADMINISTRATION AND LEGISLATION WORK
2:34:09PM BUT THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT WORK FOR THE CITY ARE THE ONES

2:34:11PM THAT MAKE THIS CITY THE PLACE TO LIVE IN.
2:34:14PM AND I'M SORRY, I HAVE GOT TO LEAVE IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES TO
2:34:17PM MAKE THERETO ON TIME.
2:34:18PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THE BEAUTY OF THIS IS I ACTUALLY -- MR.
2:34:23PM GUDES TALKED ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THIS TODAY, AND SO I WENT
2:34:27PM THROUGH THE CHARTER, AND THE GREAT PART ABOUT THIS -- OH --
2:34:33PM THE GREAT PART ABOUT THIS IS NOWHERE IN THE CHARTER DOES IT
2:34:36PM SAY IT'S A FULL-TIME OR PART-TIME JOB.
2:34:38PM SO I THINK IT'S JUST AN ASSUMPTION IT'S A PART-TIME JOB BUT
2:34:42PM NO WHERE IN THE CHARTER DOES IT SAY IT'S A PART-TIME JOB.
2:34:45PM SO I AM TAKING THAT TO MEAN IT'S A FULL-TIME JOB, WHICH IS
2:34:48PM HOW I APPROACH IT.
2:34:49PM MY ACTUAL SECOND JOB IS DONE ON A PART-TIME BASIS NOW.
2:34:55PM SO I ACTUALLY, AGAIN, I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO DEFER TO THE
2:35:00PM VOTERS ON THIS.
2:35:01PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. GUDES AND THEN MR --
2:35:05PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: SHE TOOK MY FUND THUNDER.
2:35:07PM THAT'S OKAY.
2:35:08PM BECAUSE I CALLED THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION AND THOUGH PUT
2:35:10PM PART TIME, AND I RESEARCHED IT AND IT'S NOT THERE.
2:35:13PM WE WENT THROUGH THE CHARTER.
2:35:16PM IT DOESN'T SAY FULL TIME OR PART TIME.
2:35:18PM SO I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT THE COUNTY LANGUAGE IS IN
2:35:20PM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WHAT THEIR VERBIAGE IS, BECAUSE I DON'T
2:35:25PM BELIEVE -- I KIND OF LOOKED AT THE WEBSITE FOR THEIR

2:35:34PM CHARTER.
2:35:34PM SO I THINK A DEFINITION OF THAT OR NOT.
2:35:38PM BUT I DO THINK THAT WHEN YOU ARE DOING A JOB, NO MATTER IF
2:35:42PM YOU ARE ELECTED, AND YOU ARE HERE TO SUPPORT THE VOTERS, THE
2:35:46PM DISTRICT, BUT IT ALSO WEIGHS ON YOUR FAMILY.
2:35:49PM AND I AM GLAD THAT I AM RETIRED.
2:35:52PM SOME PEOPLE AREN'T.
2:35:53PM AND I HAVE THE LUXURY.
2:35:55PM BUT STILL AT TIMES, NOW, THERE ARE FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES.
2:36:06PM I HAVEN'T HEARD THE VOTERS IN THIS CITY HOLIER ABOUT MY
2:36:10PM GETTING A PAY INCREASE OR CITY COUNCIL SHOULDN'T BE PAID.
2:36:13PM WE HEARD THE OPPOSITE SIT.
2:36:15PM SO EVERYONE DESERVES A PAY RAISE FOR THEIR WORK.
2:36:20PM WHEN YOU PUT IN THE WORK YOU DESERVE TO GET PAID.
2:36:22PM I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE.
2:36:25PM WHEN YOU VOLUNTEER, SOMETIMES VOLUNTEERS, THEY GET
2:36:30PM SOMETHING.
2:36:30PM THEY GET SOMETHING.
2:36:31PM SO FOR ME, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO LET THE VOTERS TO
2:36:35PM DECIDE.
2:36:35PM I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, YOU KNOW.
2:36:37PM BUT ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULDN'T GET PAY RAISES IS ASININE.
2:36:46PM >> THANK YOU.
2:36:47PM MR. CITRO.
2:36:47PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: A LAST BITE AT THE APPLE, MS. FACILITATOR.

2:36:52PM WE ALL HEAR FROM CONSTITUENTS, SAME CONSTITUENTS.
2:36:56PM YES, I CONSIDER IT A FULL-TIME JOB.
2:37:00PM BUT I WOULD RATHER BE AT WORK MORE THAN ONE DAY A WEEK.
2:37:05PM THIS COUNCIL NEEDS TO WORK MORE THAN ONE DAY A WEEK.
2:37:11PM I STILL WEEK 35 HOURS AT MY SECOND JOB.
2:37:16PM UNTIL WE CAN DEFINE HOW MANY HOURS A WEEK WE GET, WHETHER IT
2:37:20PM BE 35 OR 75.
2:37:24PM IT DOESN'T MATTER.
2:37:26PM I CANNOT ACCEPT THIS LARGE OF A PAY INCREASE AT THIS TIME.
2:37:32PM IT.
2:37:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:37:35PM MR. CARLSON.
2:37:36PM >>BILL CARLSON: I PUT THIS IN AS A PLACEHOLDER.
2:37:40PM IF YOU THINK IT'S A PART-TIME JOB YOU CAN PICK 10% OF WHAT
2:37:43PM THE MAYOR MAKES.
2:37:44PM YOU CAN PUT 20%.
2:37:45PM I JUST PUT 60% AS A PLACEHOLDER.
2:37:49PM THAT'S WHAT I WOULD APPROVE, BECAUSE I THINK IN GOVERNMENT
2:37:52PM AND THE GOVERNMENTS THAT I HAVE STUDY ADD ROUND THE WORLD
2:37:56PM THAT ARE RUN REALLY WELL, THEY PAY A DECENT AMOUNT AND THEY
2:37:59PM GET GOOD PEOPLE.
2:38:00PM IT'S NOT FAIR -- I DON'T NEED THE SALARY.
2:38:02PM I COULD TURN IT DOWN.
2:38:03PM I COULD TURN DOWN THE INCREASE.
2:38:05PM BUT IT'S NOT FAIR TO EVERYBODY ELSE NOT TO DO IT AT SOME

2:38:08PM POINT.
2:38:08PM WE COULD CHANGE THE PERCENTAGE.
2:38:09PM WE COULD ALSO CHANGE IT IN 2027 SO IT'S POSSIBLE NONE OF US
2:38:13PM EXCEPT MAYBE MR. MIRANDA WILL BE HERE.
2:38:14PM [ LAUGHTER ]
2:38:19PM BUT WE CAN SET IT LIKE THAT IF YOU WANT.
2:38:22PM BUT WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS IS THAT
2:38:25PM SUDDENLY THE MEDIA INSTEAD OF COVERING THE SUBSTANTIVE
2:38:29PM ISSUES OF THE DAY WROTE A BUNCH OF STORIES ABOUT THE SALARY
2:38:31PM DISCUSSION.
2:38:32PM I IMAGINE THE ADMINISTRATION PUSHED THAT STORY OUT.
2:38:34PM I AM GOING TO WITHDRAW THIS PROPOSAL AND BRING IT BACK IN
2:38:37PM NEW BUSINESS ON ANOTHER DAY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO PUT MY
2:38:40PM COLLEAGUES AT RISK.
2:38:41PM I DON'T HAVE THE VOTES AND I DON'T WANT TO PUT THEM AT RISK
2:38:45PM IN THE EDITORIAL.
2:38:46PM THEY CAN WRITE ABOUT ME WHATEVER THEY WANT.
2:38:48PM I DON'T CARE.
2:38:49PM TONIGHT I AM GOING TO MAKE ANOTHER PROPOSAL TO ANOTHER
2:38:51PM SUPPORT.
2:38:52PM MR. MIRANDA LEAVES.
2:38:53PM AND I WOULD HAVE TO JUMP THE ORDER SO I DON'T KNOW IF
2:38:56PM ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANOTHER URGENT WANT BEFORE HE LEAVES BUT I
2:38:59PM WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS ONE UP.
2:39:03PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: IS IT WORKABLE WITH THE REST OF YOU?

2:39:06PM >> CERTAINLY.
2:39:08PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WHICH SECTION?
2:39:09PM >>BILL CARLSON: 10.04.
2:39:20PM THERE'S NO FORMULA FOR WHAT TO DO IF A MAYOR HAS A CONFLICT
2:39:25PM OF INTEREST.
2:39:29PM I HAVE ASKED SEVERAL DIFFERENT ATTORNEYS ABOUT THIS.
2:39:32PM THERE WAS VERY LITTLE CASE LAW.
2:39:33PM AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE OFFICIAL GUIDANCE FROM THE ETHICS
2:39:36PM COMMISSION.
2:39:37PM I PICKED UP BITS AND PIECES OF INFORMATION ABOUT THIS.
2:39:41PM BUT WE NEED TO HAVE A PROCESS, RIGHT NOW TO BE FAIR TO THIS
2:39:46PM MAYOR OR ANY OTHER MAYOR.
2:39:48PM THERE'S NO PROCESS BY WHICH THE MAYOR CAN RECUSE HERSELF.
2:39:52PM AND I THINK WE NEED TO PROVIDE THAT OPTION SO THAT SHE
2:39:56PM DOESN'T GET CRITICIZED FOR SOMETHING THAT SHE SHOULDN'T GET
2:39:59PM CRITICIZED FOR, WHOEVER THE MAYOR IS IN THE FUTURE.
2:40:02PM SO HERE IS WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE.
2:40:05PM AGAIN, ASKING THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY GET THEIR OUTSIDE
2:40:09PM ATTORNEY TO LOOK AT, SECTION 10.4 ETHICS, AND TO REVIEW AND
2:40:14PM RECOMMEND AN ORDINANCE BASED ON THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE.
2:40:17PM QUOTE: SHOULD THE MAYOR FACE AN ETHICAL CONFLICT OF
2:40:20PM INTEREST AS DEFINED BY FLORIDA LAW OR CITY RULE OR CODE, THE
2:40:23PM MAYOR WILL, A, DISCLOSE THAT CONFLICT AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE
2:40:27PM CITY COUNCIL MEETING, EITHER IN PERSON OR THROUGH A
2:40:30PM REPRESENTATIVE, B, NOTIFY STAFF IN THE AFFECTED DEPARTMENT

2:40:34PM THAT THE MAYOR MAY NOT PARTICIPATE IN THIS ITEM AND WILL NOT
2:40:37PM PASS JUDGMENT ON THE OUTCOME, C, AS ASK THE CITY COUNCIL
2:40:42PM CHAIR TO APPROVE AND SIGN ANY RFP AWARD MEMOS TO CITY
2:40:46PM COUNCIL OR OTHERS, D, ASK THE CITY COUNCIL CHAIR TO SIGN ANY
2:40:49PM CONTRACTS OR PAYMENT TO THE ORGANIZATIONS AFFECTED.
2:40:52PM NOW, WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT IF THE MAYOR HAS A CONFLICT OF
2:40:57PM INTEREST, THE MAYOR AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW REALLY HAS NO
2:41:00PM CHOICE BUT TO SIGN ALL THESE DOCUMENTS OR TO STAND WITH A
2:41:03PM PRESS CONFERENCE.
2:41:05PM AND THERE'S NO WAY FOR A MAYOR TO DISCLOSE A CONFLICT OF
2:41:08PM INTEREST.
2:41:09PM WE HAVE TO FILL OUT A FORM A-B AND IN PUBLIC WE HAVE TO READ
2:41:13PM IT AND WE HAVE TO PROVIDE IT IN PUBLIC TO EVERYONE AROUND.
2:41:18PM AND IN CASE YOU ALL DON'T KNOW, THE MAYOR DOES HAVE
2:41:22PM CONFLICTS, AND I AM GOING TO HAND OUT THE CONFLICT FORM THE
2:41:27PM MAYOR FILLED OUT AT THE PORT AUTHORITY BOARD MEETING ON
2:41:31PM AUGUST 16th, 2022.
2:41:35PM IT'S NOT COMPLETELY FILLED OUT ASSOCIATION WE DON'T KNOW THE
2:41:38PM NATURE OF THE CONFLICT, BUT THERE IS A FORM HERE.
2:41:42PM AND SO IF THE MAYOR -- IF THE MAYOR HAS A CONFLICT IN A PORT
2:41:47PM AUTHORITY BUILDING, IT IS POSSIBLE OR LIKELY THAT THE MAYOR
2:41:51PM WOULD HAVE A CONFLICT AT THE CITY, AND THERE HAS TO BE A
2:41:55PM PROCESS FOR THE MAYOR TO HANDLE IT.
2:41:57PM THIS WOULD, BY THIS, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS TRYING TO PROTECT
2:42:00PM THE MAYOR BY CREATING A PROCESS BY WHICH THE MAYOR CAN STEP

2:42:04PM ASIDE AND ALLOW THE CITY COUNCIL CHAIR, TO STEP IN, IN THE
2:42:09PM OLD DAYS IF THE MAYOR WAS OUT OF THE CITY OR IF SOMETHING
2:42:11PM HAPPENS TO THE MAYOR, AND SO IN THIS CASE, IT JUST ALLOWS
2:42:15PM THE MAYOR TO HAVE ARM'S LENGTH SO THE MAYOR IS NOT ACCUSED
2:42:19PM OF ANYTHING.
2:42:21PM THIS IS THE FORM A-B THAT THE MAYOR HANDED OUT AT THE PORT
2:42:24PM AUTHORITY BOARD.
2:42:25PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. CARLSON.
2:42:46PM WOULD YOU LIKE A MOMENT TO LOOK AT THAT?
2:42:48PM >>BILL CARLSON: AGAIN IN THIS EXAMPLE WE DON'T KNOW THE
2:42:51PM DETAILS OR THE CONFLICT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY IT ON THE
2:42:54PM FORM BUT IF YOU JUST PRESENT IT, IF THE MAYOR FILED A FORM
2:42:57PM A-B IN ANOTHER BODY THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD THERE WOULD BE A
2:43:01PM CONFLICT SO WE JUST NEED A PROCESS TO HANDLE THIS.
2:43:05PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DISCUSSION?
2:43:08PM >>BILL CARLSON: IT DOESN'T HAVE A SECOND YET SO IF IT
2:43:11PM DOESN'T GET A SECOND WE CAN DROP IT.
2:43:15PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK. DISCUSSION, MR. MIRANDA?
2:43:16PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL
2:43:19PM CHAIR, WHAT PART THAT INDIVIDUAL HE OR SHE MAY BE THAT MAY
2:43:27PM NEED TO BE BROUGHT UP TO SPEED, UNLESS THE MAYOR AT THE END
2:43:30PM OF THE DAY, THAT MEANS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL CHAIR MAY HAVE
2:43:33PM TO SIGN BOTH, AS CITY COUNCIL CHAIR, AND PASS A RESOLUTION
2:43:40PM OR SOMETHING TO THIS BODY THAT GOES TO THE MAYOR'S DESK, AND
2:43:43PM THE REASON I SAY THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE, AND I KNOW

2:43:47PM WHAT HAPPENED.
2:43:47PM IN FACT ONE RESOLUTION WHERE I SERVED AS MAYOR BECAUSE THE
2:43:54PM MAYOR WAS OUT OF TOWN.
2:43:55PM I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO GRASP IT.
2:43:58PM AND I AM ALERTING MYSELF TO THAT.
2:44:01PM DOES A MAYOR HAVE CONFLICT?
2:44:02PM I KNOW WHEN I HAVE ONE, I PUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT IT
2:44:05PM WAS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, SO IT IS WHAT IT IS.
2:44:09PM THAT'S ALL.
2:44:09PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:44:12PM SOMEONE ELSE COMMENT?
2:44:15PM YES, MR. VIERA?
2:44:17PM >>LUIS VIERA: WHAT HAPPENS NOW WHENEVER -- LET'S SAY
2:44:21PM THERE'S A CONFLICT ON A RESOLUTION OR SOMETHING OF THAT
2:44:24PM NATURE, AND IT REQUIRES THE MAYOR'S SIGNATURE?
2:44:27PM WHAT PRESENTLY HAPPENS NOW?
2:44:29PM >> I'M SORRY.
2:44:46PM ON A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, IT'S NOT ACCURATE TO SAY THAT NO
2:44:49PM CONFLICT RULES GOVERNING GOVERN THE MAYOR'S ACTIVITIES HERE
2:44:52PM AT THE CITY, BECAUSE CERTAINLY THE CITY ETHICS CODE, STATE
2:44:55PM ETHICS CODE, HAS NUMEROUS CONFLICT PROVISIONS THAT GOVERN
2:45:00PM THE MAYOR'S BEHAVIOR.
2:45:02PM BUT THE REPORT FORM THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS TO DO
2:45:06PM WITH HER, AND THERE WAS A VOTING CONFLICT ISSUE FOR NOT ONLY
2:45:13PM BECAUSE CHARLES KLUTE CONTACTED ME AND IT WAS A

2:45:18PM MISUNDERSTANDING.
2:45:20PM THE MAYOR DIDN'T WANT TO VOTE TO AVOID AN APPEARANCE OF A
2:45:23PM CONFLICT, BUT SHE DIDN'T HAVE AN ACTUAL CONFLICT, WHICH WAS
2:45:26PM WHY SHE DIDN'T COMPLETE THE FORM.
2:45:29PM CHARLES GOT IT AND SHE DIDN'T SIGN THE CONFLICT.
2:45:37PM SHE DIDN'T HAVE ONE.
2:45:38PM BUT IN ANY EVENT, THAT WAS A VOTING CONFLICT WHICH YOU ALL
2:45:44PM DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS, BUT IT'S NOT ACCURATE TO SAY
2:45:47PM THAT THERE AREN'T CONFLICTS THAT THE MAYOR CANNOT HAVE IN
2:45:53PM THE EXERCISE OF HER AUTHORITY AS MAYOR, BECAUSE AGAIN ETHICS
2:45:58PM RULES, THE STATE ETHICS CODE ARE ALL VERY CLEAR ON WHAT THE
2:46:02PM MAYOR CAN AND CAN'T DO.
2:46:03PM SO CERTAINLY, FOR INSTANCE, SHE COULDN'T SIGN A CONTRACT,
2:46:06PM BUT SOMEHOW WE KNOW A PERSONAL BENEFIT OR THAT OF HER FAMILY
2:46:11PM OR THE OTHER PARTIES IDENTIFIED IN THE CODE, FOR EXAMPLE.
2:46:14PM >>BILL CARLSON: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS DOES IS JUST
2:46:20PM LIKE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE REQUIRED TO PUBLICLY DISCLOSE
2:46:24PM NOT ONLY FILL OUT A FORM BUT TO PUBLICLY DISCLOSE IN A
2:46:27PM PUBLIC FORUM.
2:46:29PM WHAT A SAYS IS EITHER THE MAYOR OR CHIEF OF STAFF OR SOMEONE
2:46:33PM WOULD COME BEFORE US AND SAY, BY THE WAY, ON THIS MATTER
2:46:35PM MAYOR HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND WE WOULD LIKE TO
2:46:38PM DISCLOSE IT.
2:46:39PM THAT WAY THE MAYOR TALKED ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND
2:46:41PM ACCOUNTABILITY.

2:46:43PM THIS PROVIDES THAT SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS, AND IF A CONFLICT IS
2:46:46PM DISCLOSED, AND THERE'S A PROCESS BY WHICH THE MAYOR CAN
2:46:50PM RECUSE HERSELF FROM BEING INVOLVED -- AND I AM NOT JUST
2:46:53PM TALKING ABOUT THIS MAYOR BUT ANY MAYOR -- THEN THERE WILL
2:46:56PM NOT BE UNFAIR ACCUSATIONS FLYING ABOUT THE MAYOR'S
2:47:00PM INVOLVEMENT OR SOMETHING.
2:47:01PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
2:47:03PM DO WE HAVE A SECOND ON THIS?
2:47:05PM MS. HURTAK.
2:47:06PM DO WE HAVE MR. GUDES?
2:47:09PM DO YOU WANT TO WAIT INFORM A VOTE?
2:47:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK: NO.
2:47:17PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: GO AHEAD AND VOTE OF THE
2:47:22PM WE HAVE TWO.
2:47:23PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON AND MS. HURTAK.
2:47:26PM THANK YOU.
2:47:26PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I HAVE GOT TO LEAVE.
2:47:34PM I WILL BE BACK IF I CAN.
2:47:36PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO FOR A PROCEDURAL QUESTION IT DOES FEEL
2:47:40PM LIKE IT MIGHT BE TIME FOR A BREAK.
2:47:42PM AM I CORRECT?
2:47:43PM SO LET'S BE BACK -- COULD WE MAKE IT 3:00 SHARP AND BE READY
2:47:47PM TO WORK?
2:47:49PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
2:47:51PM WE ARE IN RECESS.

2:47:54PM (RECESS)
2:48:24PM
3:06:40PM (ROLL CALL).
3:06:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: AS I WAS SAYING TO THE FACILITATORS, WE
3:06:52PM STOPPED AT SALARIES.
3:06:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:06:56PM IN SECTION 6, IS THERE ANY OTHER ELEMENT IN SECTION 6 THAT
3:07:00PM YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO?
3:07:03PM BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO PROCEDURAL ISSUES.
3:07:05PM ONE IS THAT WE PLAN TO END AT THE VERY LATEST AT 5:00,
3:07:11PM PREFERABLY 4:30, AND WE HAVE OTHER ELEMENTS ON THE AGENDA
3:07:14PM THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT WENT OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
3:07:19PM SO BACK TO 6.
3:07:21PM ANY OTHER ELEMENTS IN SECTION 6?
3:07:26PM SEEING NONE, ARTICLE 7, FINANCES.
3:07:39PM I'M SORRY, THE SALARIES IN NUMBER 7 AS WELL.
3:07:44PM BUT 7 STARTING WITH BUDGET, SALARIES, INTERIM BUDGET,
3:07:48PM MILLAGE, ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH AUDIT.
3:07:58PM ANY OF THOSE ELEMENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE?
3:08:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL?
3:08:12PM ARTICLE 8, CONTRACT CONTRACTS AND BIDDING.
3:08:17PM CONTRACTS, APPROVAL, COMPETITIVE BIDDING, ALL THE WAY UP
3:08:22PM THROUGH CONFLICTS.
3:08:23PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: I SEE HERE ON THE SHEET THAT WAS SENT TO
3:08:36PM US, SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS 8.05.

3:08:43PM PLEASURE OF COUNCIL?
3:08:46PM NO?
3:08:47PM OKAY.
3:08:47PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SECTION 9.
3:08:54PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: 9.01.
3:08:57PM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
3:08:58PM >>LYNN HURTAK: WHO IS RUNNING RIGHT NOW?
3:09:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: EXCUSE ME, THE FACILITATOR IS BUT ANYONE
3:09:09PM WANTING TO SPEAK.
3:09:09PM I AM JUST --
3:09:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK: JUST DOUBLE CHECKING.
3:09:13PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THAT OUR CITY COUNSEL HAS GIVEN US.
3:09:20PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I AM GOING TO DO 9.01 BOARDS.
3:09:26PM THIS DOES ATTACH TO THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY'S LIST ON
3:09:33PM NUMBER 19.
3:09:36PM AT THE VERY END, IT SAYS, THERE SHALL BE SUCH OTHER STANDING
3:09:41PM BOARDS THAT MAY BE CREATED BY ORDINANCE.
3:09:43PM MY SUGGESTION IS ADD A PERIOD AFTER THAT.
3:09:47PM TAKE OUT THE WORD "AND" AFTER THAT AND START A CAPITAL A, AD
3:09:52PM HOC, AND CHANGE TO THE AD HOC BOARDS AND COMMITTEES SHALL BE
3:09:55PM CREATED BY RESOLUTION.
3:09:59PM AND THE REST OF IT STAYS THE SAME.
3:10:00PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:10:04PM SECOND?
3:10:04PM >>LYNN HURTAK: AND MY RATIONALE BEHIND THAT IS THAT IT'S

3:10:10PM VERY CONFUSING ABOUT HOW BOARDS ARE MADE, AND I THINK THE
3:10:13PM ADDITION OF A COMMA JUST ADDS TO THE CONFUSION.
3:10:18PM SO THIS IS JUST MORE CLARIFICATION LANGUAGE, IN MY OPINION.
3:10:21PM AND BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT HOW BOTH CITY COUNCIL AND THE
3:10:27PM MAYOR CAN MAKE COMMITTEES, AND SINCE THERE'S A DIFFERENT
3:10:31PM METHOD, BY SEPARATING THOSE TWO SENTENCES, IT CLARIFIES IT
3:10:37PM FOR BOTH THE PUBLIC AND FOR US.
3:10:41PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: A COMMENT IS SMALL BUT MIGHTY.
3:10:44PM >> YES, YES.
3:10:48PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: OTHER DISCUSSION, OTHER RATIONALE?
3:10:53PM MR. VIERA.
3:10:53PM >>LUIS VIERA: THIS APPEARS TO BE ON FIRST IMPRESSION I SEE
3:10:56PM NO PROBLEM.
3:10:59PM AGAIN, I WILL INQUIRE FURTHER ON, ET CETERA, BUT THIS
3:11:02PM APPEARS TO BE.
3:11:04PM BY THE WAY, NOT THAT THE OTHER ONES AREN'T, BUTT WAY.
3:11:09PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE WANT TO CLARIFY THAT IT'S CORRECT AS
3:11:19PM SUBMITTED ON WHAT MR. SHELBY HAD PUT TOGETHER.
3:11:22PM I BELIEVE MS. HURTAK YOU ADDED A DIFFERENT WORD.
3:11:27PM >>LYNN HURTAK: OKAY, I'M SORRY, THEN.
3:11:30PM I MEANT BY IT'S THE SAME SENTENCE THAT MR. SHELBY MENTIONED.
3:11:34PM I JUST WANTED TO DO MINE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
3:11:37PM SO ADDING A PERIOD AFTER ORDINANCE, THE WORD ORDINANCE,
3:11:40PM CORRECT?
3:11:41PM SO WE NEED TO PUT THAT IN QUOTE JUST TO MAYBE HELP PEOPLE,

3:11:44PM MAYBE CREATED BY ORDINANCE, THAT PHRASE, JUST SO FOLKS KNOW
3:11:48PM WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, CREATED BY ORDINANCE.
3:11:52PM AND THEN, YES, START A NEW SENTENCE WITH AD HOC BOARDS AND
3:11:57PM COMMITTEES SHALL BE CREATED BY RESOLUTION, SO ON AND SO
3:12:00PM FORTH, TO FINISH THE SENTENCE.
3:12:02PM SO IF YOU COULD ADD THOSE ELLIPSES.
3:12:05PM THANK YOU FOR ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION.
3:12:07PM THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM GOING FOR.
3:12:11PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: CAN I CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS, PLEASE?
3:12:23PM UNANIMOUS.
3:12:24PM FIVE VOTES.
3:12:25PM MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MR. MANISCALCO, MR. CITRO, AND MS.
3:12:29PM HURTAK.
3:12:29PM THANK YOU.
3:12:39PM SECTION 9 ALSO HAS PERSONNEL AND COMPENSATION.
3:12:44PM IT'S NOT ON THE NOTE FROM MR. SELBY, BUT IS THERE ANY OTHER
3:12:48PM COMMENT ON THAT?
3:12:49PM "MR. SHELBY."
3:12:54PM I THINK I MAY HAVE MISSPOKE.
3:12:57PM NUMBER 21 ON MR. SHELBY'S COMMENTS DEALS WITH 10-10, CHARTER
3:13:03PM REVIEW.
3:13:06PM WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT OR ANY OTHER ELEMENT IN
3:13:09PM NUMBER 10?
3:13:12PM SUPPLEMENT 135, IT'S ON PAGE 18 OF 19.
3:13:15PM FOR CHARTER REVIEW.

3:13:33PM MR. CITRO, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON THAT ONE?
3:13:36PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU.
3:13:37PM WHEN I WAS ON THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION BEFORE, I HAD
3:13:42PM ADVOCATED FOR EVERY FIVE YEARS.
3:13:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WOULD THAT BE PART OF YOUR MOTION IF YOU
3:13:56PM WERE TO MAKE ONE?
3:13:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: IF A MOTION IS TO BE MADE, I WOULD LIKE IT
3:14:00PM COMMENCING IN 2027 AND EVERY FIVE YEARS THEREAFTER.
3:14:05PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:14:08PM YES, MR. MANISCALCO.
3:14:09PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I APPRECIATE THAT.
3:14:13PM WE HAVE HAD A LONG DAY HERE, AND A LENGTHY DISCUSSION ON A
3:14:17PM LOT OF BIG ISSUES.
3:14:18PM BUT THE REASON FOR A LOT OF MY NO VOTES IS BECAUSE I WAS
3:14:25PM HERE WHEN CITY COUNCIL CREATED THE CHARTER REVIEW
3:14:34PM COMMISSION.
3:14:34PM MY APPOINTEE IS HERE NOW AS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER.
3:14:38PM AND THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME, A LOT OF VOLUNTEER TIME,
3:14:43PM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, GUDES, CARLSON, CITRO AND OTHERS IN
3:14:47PM THIS ROOM, A LOT OF TIMES DISCUSSING A LOT OF ISSUES THAT
3:14:51PM ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT, AND WE BROUGHT THOSE TO THE BALLOT.
3:14:54PM SO I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT IT SHOULDN'T MEET EVERY TEN
3:14:59PM YEARS, IT SHOULD MEET EVERY FIVE YEARS, AND NOW IT'S
3:15:04PM SCHEDULED FOR THAT 10TH YEAR, AND WE CAN CHANGE IT TO EVERY
3:15:06PM FIVE YEARS, AND I THINK IT MAKES MORE SENSE, TO HAVE DEEPER

3:15:07PM DISCUSSIONS, BECAUSE WE ARE PLAYING WITH THE CITY'S
3:15:10PM CONSTITUTION, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE, AGAIN, LIKE
3:15:12PM THERE WAS THAT FULL BOARD, AND MANY, MANY, MANY MEETINGS AND
3:15:16PM MANY HOURS.
3:15:16PM WE SHOULD CONTINUE HAVING THAT.
3:15:18PM AT A HIGHER FREQUENCY I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY GOOD.
3:15:22PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. MANISCALCO.
3:15:24PM I DID SPEAK WITH MS. COTTI ABOUT HER ROLE.
3:15:33PM MS. HURTAK.
3:15:33PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO SAY THAT,
3:15:35PM COMMENCING -- I MEAN, WOULD WE WANT TO CHANGE THE YEAR, OR
3:15:44PM LET IT START TEN YEARS FROM NOW?
3:15:48PM OKAY, THAT'S FINE, I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT THAT.
3:15:50PM BUT IF WE DID THE EVERY FIVE YEARS THEREAFTER, THE ONLY
3:15:53PM THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THAT, BECAUSE I FOUND IT
3:15:57PM CONFUSING, AS A MEMBER OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, THE
3:16:02PM FIFTH YEAR DOWN TOWARD THE BOTTOM, AN INDEPENDENT PERSON
3:16:05PM SHALL BE ENGAGED BY THE CITY COUNCIL TO FACILITATE THE
3:16:07PM CHARTER REVIEW PROCESS.
3:16:09PM I DO -- THE CURATIVE LANGUAGE THAT IS IN CITY COUNCIL'S
3:16:19PM SHELBY'S MEMO IS ACTUALLY FROM A CONVERSATION HE AND I HAD,
3:16:25PM THE ONE THING THAT WAS CONFUSING WE HAD TWO SEPARATE LAWYERS
3:16:28PM TALKING TO US AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, AND NOT COUNCIL, IT
3:16:32PM WAS REALLY HARD TO DETERMINE WHO TO LISTEN TO.
3:16:36PM SO I LOVE THE IDEA OF INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL.

3:16:39PM DOESN'T MEAN THE OTHER TWO CAN'T EITHER BUT JUST SOMEONE
3:16:43PM WHO -- SO THAT THE CITY CAN HAVE THEIR OPINION, THE CITY
3:16:47PM COUNCIL CAN HAVE THEIR OPINION, AND THEN SOMEONE TO KIND OF
3:16:50PM GUIDE THE MEMBERS, BECAUSE, AGAIN, NOT HAVING ANY REAL CITY
3:16:55PM EXPERIENCE WHEN I SAT ON THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, THAT
3:16:59PM WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY VALUABLE, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WHEN YOU
3:17:03PM WOULD ASK FOR CLARIFICATION YOU GET TWO SEPARATE ANSWERS.
3:17:06PM SO THAT WOULD BE -- MY MOTION WOULD BE TO CHANGE THE
3:17:09PM COMMENCING IN 2027 AND EVERY FIVE YEARS THEREAFTER, THAT
3:17:12PM WOULD BE THE BEGINNING, AND THEN ELLIPSES. TO CONTINUE THAT
3:17:17PM LANGUAGE.
3:17:20PM AND THEN TOWARD THE END WHERE IT SAYS AN INDEPENDENT PERSON
3:17:23PM SHALL BE ENGAGED BY THE CITY COUNCIL TO FACILITATE, I WOULD
3:17:26PM ACTUALLY CHANGE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC TO INDEPENDENT LEGAL
3:17:31PM COUNSEL AND A PROFESSIONAL FACILITATOR, BECAUSE AN
3:17:34PM INDEPENDENT PERSON COULD BE SOMEONE YOU PULL OFF THE STREET,
3:17:36PM AND I KNOW THAT WE ALL, ALL TALKED ABOUT THE VALUE OF HAVING
3:17:41PM AN INDEPENDENT FACILITATOR, NOT JUST A PERSON, THAT I AM
3:17:48PM ALMOST POSITIVE WE USED THAT LANGUAGE, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW
3:17:51PM IT ENDED UP AN INDEPENDENT PERSON.
3:17:53PM BUT THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER DAY.
3:17:55PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO MS. HURTAK, YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE
3:18:00PM LANGUAGE IN THE DOCUMENT THAT MR. SHELBY PUT TOGETHER WHICH
3:18:03PM DOES SAY THOSE EXACT WORDS, INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL AND
3:18:06PM PROFESSIONAL FACILITATOR SHALL BE ENGAGED, IN ADDITION TO

3:18:09PM YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS.
3:18:10PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
3:18:13PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE HAVE A SECOND TO THAT?
3:18:15PM MR. MANISCALCO.
3:18:16PM ANY OTHER DISCUSSION?
3:18:20PM MR. GUDES.
3:18:20PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WELL, I'M GLAD SOMEBODY FINALLY DID
3:18:24PM SOMETHING TODAY.
3:18:27PM WE FINALLY GOT, YOU KNOW, REAL SMALL WHAT I CALL FOOT IN THE
3:18:30PM GROUND AT THE LAST WE JUST VOTED ON, SOMETHING THAT WASN'T
3:18:34PM CONTROVERSIAL THAT NOBODY WOULD BE UPSET ABOUT.
3:18:37PM THEN WE HAVE THIS HERE WHICH, YOU KNOW, A PERSON WHO SAT ON
3:18:40PM THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, UNDERSTANDS THE INNER
3:18:41PM WORKINGS OF IT.
3:18:47PM AND I FELT THOSE WHO WERE ON THERE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO
3:18:54PM RESPECT TODAY.
3:18:56PM SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AS BEING ON THIS
3:19:02PM COUNCIL FOR ALMOST FOUR YEARS, AND BEING ON THE CHARTER
3:19:05PM REVIEW, GOING THROUGH DOCUMENTS, UNDERSTANDING, AND NOW
3:19:10PM SITTING IN THIS POSITION, TO REALLY UNDERSTAND, WE CAN SAY
3:19:15PM THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE CHARTER TODAY.
3:19:18PM BUT WE ALL KNOW WE DO BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME CONTROVERSIES
3:19:21PM THAT WENT ON ALMOST FOUR YEARS.
3:19:25PM THAT'S WHY WE TALKED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING.
3:19:29PM I WASN'T LOOKING FOR A FULL FIX OF EVERYTHING TODAY BUT I

3:19:32PM THINK SO THINGS SHOULD HAVE WENT TO THE VOTERS.
3:19:35PM SHOULD HAVE.
3:19:38PM SOME THINGS THAT THE VOTERS WERE TALKING TO US FOR A WHILE
3:19:41PM ABOUT.
3:19:42PM BUT AGAIN I KNOW IT'S POLITICAL, I KNOW IT'S ELECTION YEAR,
3:19:46PM EVERYBODY DOESN'T WANT CONTROVERSY, BUT I DO SUPPORT THAT,
3:19:51PM AND I WISH WE COULD GO BACK AND TAKE THE TEN YEARS OUT
3:19:54PM BECAUSE I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE REVAMPED, LOOKED AT EVERY
3:19:57PM FIVE YEARS.
3:20:00PM WAITING TO 2027 IS TOO LONG.
3:20:01PM I KNOW WE HAVE ISSUES.
3:20:03PM BUT AIN'T AFRAID OF IT, NOBODY, DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE.
3:20:06PM THINGS ARE WHAT THEY ARE.
3:20:08PM BUT I AM NOT AFRAID TO SAY WHEN SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.
3:20:14PM BUT I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED TO WAIT TILL 2027, TEN YEARS
3:20:19PM DOWN THE ROAD NOW.
3:20:20PM IT NEEDS TO BE EVERY FIVE YEARS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE'S
3:20:24PM ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED.
3:20:27PM >>LYNN HURTAK: WOULD YOU TAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO MAYBE
3:20:29PM 2025 SO IT'S KIND OF MORE CONSISTENT, OR 2027 --
3:20:38PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: MS. HURTAK, I'M A COMPROMISER.
3:20:41PM BUT I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE DISAPPOINTED BY WHAT
3:20:49PM WENT DOWN TODAY, VERY DISAPPOINTED, AND JUST DON'T
3:20:52PM UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED TODAY.
3:20:53PM I REALLY DON'T.

3:20:54PM BUT I CAN COMPROMISE.
3:20:59PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO AS IT STANDS, MR. GUDES, YOU ARE FINE
3:21:01PM WITH COMMENCING IN 2027 WHICH --
3:21:06PM >>LYNN HURTAK: 2025.
3:21:08PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YOU WANT TO CHANGE THAT TO 2025.
3:21:10PM AND THEN EVERY FIVE YEARS THEREAFTER.
3:21:15PM CALL FOR A VOTE.
3:21:18PM >>LYNN HURTAK: WHO WAS MY SECOND?
3:21:23PM WERE YOU OKAY WITH SECONDING THE AMENDMENT?
3:21:26PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: SO I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE CHANGING
3:21:28PM YEAR.
3:21:28PM TODAY WE HAD LIKE A MIDWAY DISCUSSION WITHIN THAT TEN-YEAR
3:21:33PM PERIOD OF TIME, BUT NOW WE CHANGE TO THE 2025.
3:21:39PM ARE WE GOING TO 2026 BALLOT?
3:21:44PM IS THAT RIGHT?
3:21:46PM THEN WE ARE GOING TO AN EVEN YEAR, CITY ELECTION YEAR.
3:21:49PM WE ARE LOOKING AT 2027 WOULD BE THE CITY ELECTION YEAR.
3:21:51PM YOU WOULD BE MEETING IN 2025.
3:21:55PM THAT'S A GAP THERE.
3:21:57PM >>LYNN HURTAK: 2026?
3:22:01PM SURE.
3:22:01PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: AND THEN TODAY WE BROUGHT UP A LOT OF
3:22:05PM ISSUES THAT ARE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, I UNDERSTAND.
3:22:08PM BUT THAT CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION WITH HOW MANY MEMBERS, 13
3:22:13PM MEMBERS, WHATEVER IT IS, YOU NEED DEEPER DISCUSSION, I

3:22:17PM THINK.
3:22:17PM BUT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SUPPORT IT TO 2026 AND THEN GOING
3:22:21PM FROM THERE WHICH WOULD ROLL IT INTO THE 2027 ELECTION
3:22:25PM FIVE-YEAR CYCLE.
3:22:26PM >>LYNN HURTAK: BUT THEN EVERY FIVE YEARS WOULD NOT BE ABLE
3:22:29PM TO GO BY BALLOT.
3:22:31PM IF BALLOT WAS THE REASON WE WANTED TO DO IT, IT WOULD HAVE
3:22:34PM TO BE EVERY FOUR YEARS, RIGHT?
3:22:37PM BECAUSE WE GO THROUGH AN ELECTION EVERY FOYER YEARS.
3:22:39PM I MEAN, THE ONLY OTHER THING WE COULD DO IS WE COULD DO FOUR
3:22:42PM OR SIX YEARS, BECAUSE GIVING FIVE YEARS MEANS THAT WE WOULD
3:22:48PM WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT.
3:22:52PM YEAH.
3:22:52PM SO MAYBE FOUR YEARS IS BETTER.
3:22:54PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I SAW A HAND. MR. CARLSON, THANK YOU.
3:22:58PM MR. VIERA, WAS IT YOU?
3:23:02PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU.
3:23:04PM JUST VERY QUICKLY, IF I MAY.
3:23:06PM I WOULD SUGGEST IF WE ARE GOING TO PASS THIS, LET'S PASS IT.
3:23:09PM IT COMES BACK TO US, WE CAN IRON OUT SOME OF THE MORE
3:23:13PM DETAILS LATER ON AFTER FURTHER DISCUSSION, ET CETERA.
3:23:15PM AND THE WAY I SEE SUPPORTING THIS IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER IS
3:23:18PM TO GIVE DEFERENCE TO THE MANY IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT
3:23:21PM FORWARD TODAY WHICH HAVE OBVIOUSLY HAD A LOT OF THOUGHT AND
3:23:24PM WORK, ET CETERA, PUT INSIDE WITHIN THEM AND FOR THEM, AND

3:23:27PM THAT GIVES BACK SOME MEASURABLE LEVEL OF DEFERENCE I THINK
3:23:30PM IN THE PROCESS AS FAR AS I INTERPRET IT.
3:23:32PM THANK YOU.
3:23:32PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. VIERA.
3:23:36PM MR. CARLSON.
3:23:37PM >>BILL CARLSON: JUST A COUPLE COMMENTS.
3:23:39PM SOMEBODY SAID THIS IS NOT CONTROVERSIAL.
3:23:41PM THIS IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL, BECAUSE THIS MAYOR AND THE LAST
3:23:46PM MAYOR DIDN'T WANT ANY CHANGES IN THE CHARTER.
3:23:48PM THEY LIKED IT JUST THE WAY IT IS.
3:23:49PM WHY?
3:23:50PM BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER, SO THEY ARE ABLE TO CONTROL
3:23:53PM EVERYTHING.
3:23:54PM THERE'S NOT A LOT OF POWER AT ALL.
3:23:56PM WE JUST TURNED DOWN ALL THE BALANCE OF POWER.
3:23:58PM THEY ARGUED AND LOBBIED HEAVILY FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW
3:24:01PM COMMISSION.
3:24:02PM THE REASON IT TOOK US HOME MONTHS TO READ THROUGH IT BECAUSE
3:24:05PM NONE OF US KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING.
3:24:08PM AND NOW WE HAVE FOUR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SAT THROUGH THAT
3:24:10PM WHOLE PROCESS AND WE SAT ON CITY COUNCIL SO WE SEE ALL THE
3:24:14PM PROBLEMS, AND STILL WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET ANYTHING DONE.
3:24:17PM I THINK CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION IS FINE BUT IT'S NOT
3:24:19PM NEARLY AS GOOD AS HAVING ALL THE EXPERIENCE WE HAVE HERE ON
3:24:22PM THE TABLE.

3:24:23PM I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE MAYOR DIDN'T WANT IT AND THE
3:24:25PM WHOLE THING WAS -- ALL THE MAYOR'S STAFF, WHATEVER BRIEFINGS
3:24:29PM ANYBODY HAD, AD IT'S ALL SET UP AROUND HIGH FIVING, THE
3:24:33PM MAYOR HAS MORE POWER THAN THREE MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL.
3:24:35PM THAT WOULD BE THE HEADLINE.
3:24:37PM WHO CARES?
3:24:38PM WHO CARES?
3:24:39PM WHO CARES IF WE GOT ALL OF THESE PASSED? IF THE ONLY THING
3:24:42PM THAT MATTERS IS WHETHER THE PUBLIC IS PROTECTED.
3:24:45PM THE PUBLIC IS NOT PROTECTED SO WE WILL GO THROUGH THIS
3:24:48PM CHARTER REVIEW.
3:24:50PM THE OTHER THING ABOUT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, WE HAD CITY
3:24:52PM COUNCIL ATTORNEY APPOINTED LAST TIME TO BE OUR
3:24:54PM REPRESENTATIVE AND THEN THE CITY ATTORNEY OR REPRESENTATIVE
3:24:56PM OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DOWNS BOUNCED IN AND STARTED
3:25:00PM CONTROLLING EVERYTHING, ACTUALLY SCREAMED AT ME FROM THE
3:25:03PM DAIS, I MEAN FROM THE PODIUM, SAYING YOU ARE TRYING TO
3:25:06PM CHANGE THE STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
3:25:09PM I SAID WHAT CITY COUNCIL DOES.
3:25:12PM LOOK AT THEIR INSTRUCTIONS.
3:25:14PM THE F THE CITY ATTORNEYS DON'T LISTEN TO US, TO CITY
3:25:17PM COUNCIL, HOW DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE ANY FAITH IN THIS
3:25:20PM GOVERNMENT AT ALL?
3:25:22PM AND ALL THE MAYOR SPENDS PHI FIVING.
3:25:27PM THIS IS NOT ABOUT POW -- HIGH FIVING.

3:25:30PM IT'S NOT ABOUT LOBBYISTS GETTING THEIR PEOPLE IN CHARGE FOR
3:25:33PM CONTRACTS.
3:25:33PM THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING THE PUBLIC FROM NOT HAVING THE
3:25:36PM TRANSPARENCY THAT WE HAD.
3:25:37PM LAST WEEK THERE WAS PROBABLY A MULTI-HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR
3:25:41PM PROJECT AND THE STAFF REFUSED TO GIVE US ANSWERS ON IT AND
3:25:45PM WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
3:25:46PM WE CAN'T GET ANY TRANSPARENCY IN THE CITY BECAUSE WE DON'T
3:25:49PM HAVE THE POWER.
3:25:50PM SO LET'S HAVE THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
3:25:52PM THEY WILL COME BACK AND WHATEVER ADMINISTRATION WILL CONTROL
3:25:54PM IT JUST LIKE THE LAST ONE DID.
3:25:56PM EVEN SOME OF THE THINGS WE PASSED EVEN CHANGING THE
3:26:00PM PRINTOUTS, THEY DIDN'T EVEN DO THAT.
3:26:02PM THEY EDITED IT.
3:26:03PM WE ALL KNOW, BECAUSE THEY EDITED IT BETWEEN THE TIME WE
3:26:06PM PASSED IT AND THE TIME IT WENT TO THE BALLOT.
3:26:09PM THEY EDITED IT.
3:26:10PM AND IT'S NOT RIGHT.
3:26:11PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE HAVE MADE THAT NOTE ABOUT NEUTRAL
3:26:17PM GENDER, MS. HURTAK.
3:26:19PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THERE IS ALSO A TYPO IN IT, AND MIGHT BE THE
3:26:25PM TIME TO FIX THAT.
3:26:26PM IN THE SAME THING RIGHT AFTER THE EVERY TEN YEARS
3:26:31PM THEREAFTER, ALL THAT STUFF, BUT BEFORE THE INDEPENDENT

3:26:38PM PERSON, THERE'S A SENTENCE THAT STARTS WITH THE WORD
3:26:41PM HOWEVER, AND IT SAYS, HOWEVER, THE CITY COUNCIL MAY MADE THE
3:26:45PM ORDINANCE, AND IT SHOULD BE MADE BY ORDINANCE, HAVE THE
3:26:49PM POWER TO CALL FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CRC MORE OFTEN IN
3:26:53PM THE EVENT IT SO CHOOSES.
3:26:54PM I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S JUST ON MY COPY WHICH HAPPENS TO BE
3:26:57PM NUMBER 135.
3:27:01PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I SEE IT AS WELL.
3:27:02PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE
3:27:04PM FIXED JUST BECAUSE IT'S AN ERROR.
3:27:07PM I AM NOT A CHARTER EXPERT IN THAT TYPE OF REALM.
3:27:12PM SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE WOULD NEED TO ADD THAT TO THE
3:27:16PM LANGUAGE.
3:27:19PM HOWEVER, THE CITY -- SO, YES, IT'S IN THE OTHER'S COPIES AS
3:27:25PM WELL.
3:27:26PM SO I GUESS I AM ASKING FOR SOME DIRECTION.
3:27:29PM DO WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THAT BY LAW, OR CAN WE JUST
3:27:32PM SAY, HEY, THAT'S A TYPO?
3:27:35PM IS IT A SCRIVENER'S ERROR OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO
3:27:38PM PUT BACK ONTO THE BALLOT?
3:27:41PM >> MS. ZELMAN, DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT?
3:27:44PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I DON'T KNOW -- [OFF MICROPHONE] THE
3:27:56PM SCRIVENER'S ERRORS IN THE CHARTER.
3:27:57PM I CAUGHT A FEW AS WELL.
3:28:00PM WHEN I WAS HAVING TO GO TO THE VOTERS, I WOULD THINK WE

3:28:03PM WOULDN'T HAVE TO, BUT I CAN'T ANSWER WITH CERTAINTY TODAY.
3:28:07PM I WILL BE ABLE TO TELL YOU BY THURSDAY.
3:28:09PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
3:28:10PM THANK YOU SO MUCH.
3:28:11PM BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS, JUST A FEW OTHER
3:28:17PM WORDS THAT WE KNOW WE CHANGED.
3:28:20PM AND I REFERENCED THIS OFTEN, BUT NEVER REALLY THINK ABOUT
3:28:26PM THAT SORT OF THING.
3:28:28PM SO THAT'S MY MOTION.
3:28:31PM I GUESS I WILL LEAVE THE B OUT FOR THE TIME BEING JUST NOT
3:28:36PM TO CONFUSE PEOPLE.
3:28:37PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: 2027?
3:28:40PM >>LYNN HURTAK: NO, 2026.
3:28:44PM AS MR. VIERA SAID, I THINK WE CAN FIX IT BETWEEN NOW AND
3:28:47PM THEN, BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO LOOK AT ELECTION CYCLES, BECAUSE
3:28:50PM IF WE DON'T LOOK AT ELECTION CYCLE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE
3:28:54PM VOTED ON BY THE VOTERS.
3:28:56PM SO IF WE DO THIS EVERY FIVE YEARS, AFTER THE FIRST ONE, WE
3:29:00PM WON'T HAVE ANOTHER ELECTION TO DO IT FOR SEVERAL MORE YEARS.
3:29:02PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN TRUE FOR EVERY TEN
3:29:07PM YEARS?
3:29:09PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YEAH, EVERY TEN YEARS AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE
3:29:11PM NOTICED IT UNTIL THEN.
3:29:16PM NO, I GUESS NOT BECAUSE --
3:29:22PM >> LOOKING AT EVEN VERSUS ODD NUMBER.

3:29:25PM SO IT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE GROUP TO, SAY, 2024?
3:29:34PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I THINK KEEP IT 2025 AND KEEP IT TO THE
3:29:38PM ACTUAL LANGUAGE AND WE WILL ADD A MONTH, AND HAVE A MONTH TO
3:29:42PM REALLY DEBATE IT AND MAYBE THEY CAN BRING US A COUPLE OF
3:29:45PM OPTIONS AND WE ALL CAN DISCUSS IT THEN.
3:29:48PM IS THAT FAIR?
3:29:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
3:29:51PM MR. CITRO.
3:29:52PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
3:29:53PM I AM LOOKING AT IT FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE.
3:29:55PM AND IT IS HOW MUCH TIME DOES THIS CHAMBERS HAVE ABOUT
3:30:03PM VIDEOTAPING, ABOUT HAVING STAFF?
3:30:05PM IT TOOK US 13 MONTHS THE LAST TIME.
3:30:08PM HOWEVER, THE MORE OFTEN WE DO IT, THE LESS TIME IT WILL TAKE
3:30:13PM TO TWEAK ANYTHING.
3:30:17PM I'M SURE AFTER THE FIRST EIGHT YEARS IF WE DO IT EVERY FOUR
3:30:20PM YEARS, THAT MIGHT ONLY BE A WEEK.
3:30:22PM SO I'M ALL FOR THIS.
3:30:25PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO IT LOOKS LIKE I CALL FOR THE VOTE AS
3:30:32PM STATED.
3:30:33PM RAISE YOUR HANDS.
3:30:34PM WE HAVE SIX VOTES.
3:30:35PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MR. MANISCALCO, MR. CITRO,
3:30:39PM MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
3:30:42PM THANK YOU.

3:30:44PM THE LAST ELEMENT IS 11.
3:30:48PM I SEE NOTHING ON MR. SHELBY'S MEMO THAT WENT OUT.
3:30:53PM THERE WAS SOMETHING ON 11.
3:30:55PM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN I PROPOSE ANOTHER ONE FOR 10?
3:30:58PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
3:31:00PM >>BILL CARLSON: I THINK WE CAN TAKE A QUICK UP OR DOWN VOTE
3:31:02PM ON THIS.
3:31:12PM I PROPOSE --
3:31:14PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WHICH.
3:31:14PM >>BILL CARLSON: SECTION 10.12.
3:31:19PM AND I WOULD ADD A NEW LANGUAGE THAT'S CALLED THE NAMING OF
3:31:23PM BUILDING, STREETS AND PLACES.
3:31:26PM AND THIS IS THE LANGUAGE, THE NAMING OF BUILDING, STREETS
3:31:31PM AND OTHER PLACES WITHIN THE CITY IS AN IMPORTANT AND
3:31:33PM LONG-TERM DISCUSSION MEANT TO HONOR THOSE CITIZENS THAT HAVE
3:31:36PM MADE A REMARKABLE AND HISTORIC IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
3:31:39PM THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MAY TRY TO CREATE A PROCESS AND
3:31:40PM COMMITTEE TO REVIEW NAMING. ANY NEW NAME MUST BE APPROVED
3:31:45PM BY THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL.
3:31:47PM HOWEVER, THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MUST TAKE GREAT CARE IN
3:31:50PM RESEARCHING THESE NAMES SO AS TO NOT NAME A BUILDING,
3:31:53PM STREET, OR PLACE AFTER SOMEONE WHO HAS CONDUCTED AN
3:32:00PM EGREGIOUS ACT SUCH AS CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS THAT COULD
3:32:01PM HARM THE REPUTATION OF THE CITY AND INTIMIDATE OR --
3:32:05PM INTIMIDATE OR HURT ITS RESIDENTS THERE.

3:32:07PM SHOULD BE A COMMA THERE.
3:32:08PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADD 10.12 AS A NEW
3:32:14PM ELEMENT, A NEW SECTION?
3:32:15PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I WILL SECOND IT.
3:32:17PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MS. HURTAK.
3:32:19PM ANY DISCUSSION?
3:32:21PM YES, MS. HURTAK.
3:32:23PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THIS ACTUALLY BRINGS UP A POINT FOR ME THAT
3:32:30PM I MAY BRING THURSDAY, BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE SECTIONS
3:32:37PM WHERE FOLKS ARE SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE COULD POSSIBLY
3:32:40PM MAKE THESE ORDINANCES.
3:32:41PM WE ALREADY HAVE THIS NICE COLLECTION THAT YOU HAVE SPENT A
3:32:44PM LOT OF TIME ON AND OTHERS OF US HAVE SPENT TIME ON.
3:32:48PM I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY AWESOME IF WE COULD TRY TO MAKE
3:32:52PM SOME OF THESE JUST BY ORDINANCE.
3:32:57PM IF THAT PLEASES YOU.
3:33:00PM I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THIS IS VERY SPECIFIC.
3:33:05PM TO ME IT READS MORE LIKE AN ORDINANCE.
3:33:08PM I WOULD ADD IT TO THE CHARTER BUT I AM JUST THINKING ABOUT
3:33:12PM ALL THE OTHER THINGS. IF THE DISCUSSION IS, OH, WE DON'T
3:33:14PM NEED IT, THEN THE CHARTER, WE CAN MAKE IT BY ORDINANCE.
3:33:18PM >>BILL CARLSON: YEAH, AND THE ONLY REASON WHY I PROPOSED IT
3:33:21PM AS A CHARTER AMENDMENT IS BECAUSE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
3:33:24PM RECENTLY SAID THAT ONLY THE MAYOR HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS.
3:33:27PM AND THAT'S NOT AN ACCURATE INTERPRETATION OF THE CHARTER.

3:33:31PM AND SO WE CAN TRY TO PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS THAT THE
3:33:37PM CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR JOINT LIP HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT.
3:33:40PM THE CHART OR REALLY IS SILENT TO IT.
3:33:42PM JUST AS I ASKED ONE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S REPRESENTATIVES,
3:33:45PM JUST BECAUSE THE MAYOR CONTROLS THE ADMINISTRATION OF
3:33:47PM BUILDINGS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE MAYOR CAN SELL PROPERTY
3:33:50PM WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, SIGN A CONTRACT FOR A
3:33:52PM PROPERTY WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, SIGN A LEASE WITHOUT
3:33:54PM CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL.
3:33:55PM EVEN HIRE SOMEONE TO PAINT THE BUILDING WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL
3:33:58PM APPROVAL.
3:33:59PM SO WHY SHOULD THE MAYOR HAVE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO NAME
3:34:02PM SOMETHING?
3:34:02PM IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
3:34:03PM SO PUTTING THIS IN THE CHARTER JUST PREVENTS A CITY ATTORNEY
3:34:07PM FROM GIVING IT AN INACCURATE INTERPRETATION ON THE CHARTER.
3:34:12PM THANK YOU.
3:34:13PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
3:34:16PM MR. VIERA?
3:34:18PM >>LUIS VIERA: AND I WOULD EXPLAIN MY VOTE ON THIS, NOW,
3:34:21PM BEFORE ANYBODY THINKS THAT THOSE WHO VOTE AGAINST THIS ARE
3:34:24PM ONCE TO NAME A BUILDING IN TAMPA AFTER STROM THURMAN OR
3:34:29PM SOMETHING.
3:34:29PM THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED AS BEING A
3:34:33PM NARROWLY TAILORED EFFORT, AND I JUST DON'T WANT THAT IN THE

3:34:36PM CHARTER.
3:34:37PM OBVIOUSLY I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS ANY BUILDINGS,
3:34:41PM ET CETERA, NAMED AFTER PEOPLE WHO DO EGREGIOUS ACT, CIVIL
3:34:44PM RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, AND AGAIN OUT OF
3:34:48PM RESPECT TO COUNCILMAN CARLSON, IT'S JUST MY SHORT DEALINGS.
3:34:54PM THANK YOU.
3:34:56PM >> MR. MANISCALCO.
3:34:57PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: A FEW YEARS AGO I MADE A MOTION TO
3:35:00PM RESTORE THE NAME OF LAUREL STREET BRIDGE TO FORTUNE TAYLOR
3:35:03PM BRIDGE.
3:35:04PM FORTUNE TAYLOR WAS A WOMAN WHO WAS ONCE ENSLAVED BUT OWNED
3:35:08PM ABOUT 30 ACRES OF LAND IN THAT PORTION OF DOWNTOWN NEAR THE
3:35:13PM STRAZ AND WHATNOT.
3:35:15PM AND I WAS ABLE TO GET IT WITH UNANIMOUS CITY COUNCIL
3:35:18PM APPROVAL WITHOUT THE MAYOR HAVING TO WEIGH IN.
3:35:22PM AND THEN WE HAD TO TALK TO OTHER DEPARTMENTS I THINK AT THE
3:35:25PM STATE LEVEL, BUT THE BRIDGE IS NAMED FORTUNE TAYLOR BRIDGE
3:35:28PM TODAY.
3:35:29PM SO CITY COUNCIL, WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT BECAUSE I
3:35:34PM WAS ABLE TO DO IT.
3:35:38PM SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS NECESSARY.
3:35:40PM I DON'T KNOW.
3:35:41PM AND I KNOW HOW TRADITIONAL WORDSMITH MAYORS WILL NAME
3:35:45PM SOMETHING FOR PREVIOUS MAYORS, LIKE CURTIS HIXON, AND I AM
3:35:50PM GOING BACK TO THE 1950s.

3:35:53PM BUT I GET IT.
3:35:55PM THERE'S TRADITION THERE.
3:35:57PM BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT IN A CITY
3:35:59PM COUNCIL.
3:36:00PM WE HONOR A STREET RENAMING, WHERE SOMEBODY GOT DECEASED SO I
3:36:09PM ADOPT KNOW IF THIS IS NECESSARY.
3:36:10PM IF NOT WE CAN ALWAYS LOOK AT IT AS AN ORDINANCE.
3:36:14PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:36:15PM ANY OTHER DISCUSSION?
3:36:16PM >>BILL CARLSON: AS IT SAYS IN HERE, THE SECOND PART OF IT
3:36:23PM IS, IT PROHIBITS CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR FROM NAMING
3:36:26PM AFTER ANYTHING WHO HAS CONDUCTED A EGREGIOUS ACTS SUCH AS
3:36:31PM CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.
3:36:32PM THAT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING WE
3:36:35PM WOULD PUT TO PUT IN THERE.
3:36:39PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. GUDES?
3:36:41PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: I READ AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM THE MAYOR
3:36:43PM IN REFERENCE TO THAT, AND I THINK -- MR. SHELBY, IF WE CAN
3:36:50PM DO IT BY ORDINANCE, I THINK THAT MIGHT WORK RATHER THAN JUST
3:36:55PM PUTTING IT IN THE CHARTER.
3:36:56PM SO I GOT AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT NAMING
3:36:59PM SOME THINGS AND I WAS GIVEN AN EXECUTIVE ORDER SAYING WE
3:37:03PM COULD NOT DO THAT.
3:37:04PM I SAID, WHOA, THIS COUNCILWOMAN HAS AN ORDINANCE BUT I
3:37:07PM DIDN'T GET INTO IT WITH THE PERSON.

3:37:09PM MY ANTENNAS HAVE GONE UP.
3:37:12PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT WOULD BE A BE QUESTION FOR MS.
3:37:13PM ZELMAN.
3:37:15PM BECAUSE THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT WAS DISCUSSED THIS MORNING AS
3:37:18PM TO WHETHER SOMETHING IS SEPARATION OF POWERS.
3:37:20PM >>BILL CARLSON: COULD I SAY WHILE SHE'S GETTING UP, THIS
3:37:26PM SAYS IT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL.
3:37:29PM SO IT'S NOT ONE OR THE OTHER.
3:37:30PM CITY COUNCIL CAN'T DO IT ON THEIR OWN.
3:37:31PM SO YOU CAN INTERPRET THAT MAYBE THE CHARTER AS IT IS THAT
3:37:34PM ONE CAN DO IT AN ONE CAN'T.
3:37:36PM THIS MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO AGREE ON IT.
3:37:38PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: [OFF MICROPHONE] -- OF THE PROCESS.
3:37:50PM I THINK IT WAS TO GIVE THE MAYOR FINAL APPROVAL.
3:37:53PM I WOULD SUGGEST THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK MORE
3:37:55PM CAREFULLY AT, AND I BELIEVE IT COULD BE ADDRESSED BY
3:37:58PM ORDINANCE.
3:37:58PM I DON'T BELIEVE IT NEEDS A CHARTER CHANGE.
3:38:01PM AND ONE THING THAT CONCERNS ME IS PUTTING IN LANGUAGE LIKE
3:38:04PM SOMEONE WHO HAS COMMITTED EGREGIOUS ACTS.
3:38:07PM WHO DEFINES THAT?
3:38:10PM YOU KNOW, EVEN THE WORDS CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.
3:38:15PM WE HAVE HAD INSTANCES OF THE CITY WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
3:38:17PM ACCUSED OF VIOLATING OTHER PEOPLE'S CIVIL RIGHTS.
3:38:22PM THAT TO ME IS VERY DIFFICULT LANGUAGE.

3:38:25PM AND I WOULD HATE TO BE PUT IN THE POSITION OF HAVING TO
3:38:27PM INTERPRET THAT ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
3:38:31PM >>BILL CARLSON: THAT'S WHY THESE WOULD GO -- NONE OF THEM
3:38:36PM HAVE BEEN APPROVED, BUT WOULD GO TO THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR
3:38:38PM REVIEW AND TO THE ATTORNEYS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS ON IT.
3:38:42PM BUT LET ME ASK YOU, IN YOUR OPINION, BECAUSE REMEMBER,
3:38:48PM DINGFELDER TRIED TO NAME A PARK AFTER LINDA SAUL-SENA AND
3:38:51PM THAT'S WHEN THE WHOLE SYSTEM GOT MIXED UP AND THE EXECUTIVE
3:38:55PM DIRECTOR CAME OUT AND MR. DINGFELDER WAS THROWN OUT WITH THE
3:38:57PM HELP OF THE FORMER CITY ATTORNEY.
3:38:59PM LET ME ASK, IN YOUR OPINION, CAN CITY COUNCIL DECIDE TO NAME
3:39:06PM SOMETHING BY OURSELVES?
3:39:09PM CAN CITY COUNCIL NAME SOMETHING WITHOUT --
3:39:13PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I NEED TO LOOK AT THIS MORE CAREFULLY.
3:39:15PM MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER ADOPTED A
3:39:18PM PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN VETTED THROUGH CITY COUNCIL --
3:39:22PM >>BILL CARLSON: I DON'T THINK WE CODIFIED IT.
3:39:26PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WE NEVER GOT THAT.
3:39:27PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: LET US LOOK AT THAT.
3:39:29PM >>BILL CARLSON: BUT WE HAVE TO VOTE TODAY.
3:39:31PM I MEAN YOU CAN COME BACK AND TELL US BUT THE POINT IS RIGHT
3:39:34PM NOW THE WAY I HEARD THE INTERPRETATION, THE CITY COUNCIL'S
3:39:37PM ATTORNEY HAS BEEN IN THE PAST HAS BEEN THAT CITY COUNCIL
3:39:40PM CANNOT NAME SOMETHING BY THEMSELVES SO THE QUESTION IS, CAN
3:39:42PM THE NAME SOMETHING BY HIS OR HERSELF?

3:39:46PM AND PRIOR CITY ATTORNEYS HAVE SAID THAT IS TRUE.
3:39:49PM WHAT THIS DOES, IT SAYS THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL HAVE TO
3:39:51PM AGREE.
3:39:52PM AND THAT PART OF IT TO PREVENT SOMETHING -- SOME NAME PUT UP
3:39:59PM THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD OBJECT TO.
3:40:01PM YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD THAT HAPPENING IN THE CITY ALREADY.
3:40:03PM AND WE CAN'T GO BACK AND NECESSARILY CHANGE THE PAST BUT WE
3:40:06PM CAN LOOK FORWARD AND NOT MAKE MISTAKES ABOUT DECISIONS THAT
3:40:11PM COULD BE MADE.
3:40:11PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: I THINK THE ISSUE IS THAT THE CHARTER
3:40:16PM SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT THE MAYOR HAVING CONTROL OVER THE
3:40:22PM REAL ESTATE, AND ALL THE FACILITIES OF THE CITY, THE CITY
3:40:24PM COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE THAT SAME CONTROL OVER THE PROPERTY.
3:40:28PM NEVERTHELESS, MY UNDERSTANDING -- AND I WILL GO BACK AND
3:40:30PM LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY -- WAS THAT THE INTENT OF THE
3:40:34PM PROCESS WAS TO PROVIDE A PROCESS WHEREBY IF CITY COUNCIL
3:40:37PM WANTED TO PROPOSE THE NAMING OF SOMETHING, IT WOULD BE A
3:40:40PM UNIFORM PROCESS FOLLOWED FOR EVERY NAMING.
3:40:43PM >>BILL CARLSON: BUT IT STILL SAYS THE MAYOR GETS TO MAKE
3:40:45PM THE DECISION, AND WHAT THIS SAYS IS IT'S SHARED.
3:40:48PM SO WE COULD STILL APPROVE THIS AND THE CITY ATTORNEY CAN
3:40:52PM GIVE US OPINIONS ON HOW TO CHANGE IT, BUT THE PROBLEM, MS.
3:40:57PM FACILITATOR, AND NOT TO BLAME THIS CITY ATTORNEY, BUT MANY
3:41:00PM TIMES CITY STAFF WILL COME BEFORE US AND THEY'LL SAY, LIKE
3:41:04PM LAST WEEK, WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, AND THEN AS SOON AS THE

3:41:07PM MEETING IS OVER, WELL, WE KNEW THE ANSWER BUT WE DIDN'T WANT
3:41:10PM TO TELL THE PUBLIC.
3:41:11PM WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY?
3:41:15PM AND AS SOON AS WE LEAVE HERE, WE'LL GET AN OPINION THAT
3:41:16PM SAYS -- NOT MS. ZELMAN, BUT PRIOR CITY ATTORNEY, WILL SAY,
3:41:20PM WELL, WE DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE TO INTERPRET IT.
3:41:21PM THEN WE GET DONE WITH THE MEETING AND THEY'LL SAY, YEAH,
3:41:24PM ONLY THE MAYOR HAS THE POWER.
3:41:26PM AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I DON'T OBJECT TO THE PROCESS
3:41:30PM THAT WAS IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER BUT FOR SOME REASON SOMEBODY
3:41:34PM IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DECIDES TO GET A WHEREAS
3:41:40PM CLAUSE THAT GIVES THE MAYOR FULL RIGHT TO NAME BUILDINGS,
3:41:40PM AND THAT'S NOT AT ALL IN THE CHARTER, NOT REMOTELY IN THE
3:41:42PM CHARTER.
3:41:43PM AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO ALL DAY IS TO STOP THE
3:41:45PM CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, NOT TALKING ABOUT -- PRIOR CITY
3:41:49PM ATTORNEYS FROM CHANGING THE CHARTER WITH A COUPLE OF
3:41:52PM PARAGRAPHS OF INTERPRETATION.
3:41:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU. DO YOU WANT TO CALL FOR A
3:41:57PM VOTE AT THIS POINT?
3:41:58PM THANK YOU, MS. ZELMAN.
3:42:00PM >>LUIS VIERA: AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I COULD, IN ONE
3:42:06PM FORM OR ANOTHER, SUPPORT AN ORDINANCE, BUT AGAIN, LIKE I
3:42:09PM SAID, COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO MENTIONED THE ISSUE OF
3:42:12PM PRIOR MAYORS, POTENTIALLY THE ORDINANCE TAKING THAT OUT SO

3:42:16PM IT'S NOT NARROWLY TAILORED FOR ONE THING.
3:42:18PM I'M PROUD OF THE FACT THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO I THINK I
3:42:20PM WAS THE FIRST CITY COUNCILMAN TO GIVE MONEY FOR MOVING A
3:42:23PM CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL, THE FIRST ONE TO SPEAK AT A RALLY FOR
3:42:26PM THAT.
3:42:27PM VERY PASSIONATE AT RENAMING LEE COUNTY TO ULYSSES GRANT
3:42:31PM COUNTY.
3:42:31PM AGAIN, I WANT TO NARROW THIS TO THE LARGER PURPOSE, I GUESS,
3:42:36PM IF YOU WILL.
3:42:37PM JUST EXPLAINING MY VOTE.
3:42:40PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR CLARIFICATION.
3:42:42PM SO AS THE MOTION HAS BEEN WRITTEN, THE KEY WORD HERE IS
3:42:46PM VOTE.
3:42:49PM WE CALL FOR A VOTE TO PUT THIS IN.
3:42:53PM IN THE CHARTER WE HAVE TWO VOTES, MR. CARLSON AND MS.
3:42:57PM HURTAK.
3:43:00PM THANK YOU.
3:43:02PM DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT?
3:43:03PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I KNOW WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH THIS BY NUMBER
3:43:08PM BUT MR. CARLSON BROUGHT UP ONE SECTION THAT WE HAVE DEBATED
3:43:14PM QUITE A BIT DURING THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
3:43:17PM AND THERE WERE TWO PARTS TO IT.
3:43:19PM HE BROUGHT ONE FORWARD, AND I WANT TO BRING THE OTHER
3:43:23PM FORWARD.
3:43:24PM IF THAT'S OKAY IF I GO BACKWARDS A LITTLE BIT?

3:43:29PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: LET ME CHECK ON TIME.
3:43:32PM HERE IS WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.
3:43:34PM >>LYNN HURTAK: IT WILL BE QUICK, I PROMISE.
3:43:37PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:43:39PM WE HAVE AN AGENDA THAT HAS GONE OUT ALSO TO THE PUBLIC AND
3:43:41PM WE HAD SKIPPED OVER SECTION 2.
3:43:46PM WHEN I ASKED FOR ANY COMMENTS, NO ONE RAISED THEIR HAND, BUT
3:43:49PM IT'S ON THE AGENDA AS A SPECIFIC ITEM.
3:43:51PM >>LYNN HURTAK: ITEM NUMBER 2, NOT SECTION NUMBER 2.
3:43:54PM I THINK THAT'S WHY NONE OF US ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.
3:43:57PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: BECAUSE ITEM 2 ON THE AGENDA FOCUSES ON,
3:44:02PM FORGIVE ME IF I STATED THAT INCORRECTLY, BUT YES, IT'S ITEM
3:44:05PM NUMBER 2 ON THE AGENDA AND WE NEED TO RESERVE TIME FOR THAT.
3:44:08PM SO HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THIS NEXT ITEM WILL TAKE THAT YOU
3:44:11PM ARE MENTIONING?
3:44:12PM >>LYNN HURTAK: PROBABLY FIVE MINUTES.
3:44:13PM I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY -- I JUST HAVE TO
3:44:18PM BRING IT UP BECAUSE I BROUGHT IT UP TO THE CRB -- OR NOT
3:44:23PM CRB, I'M SORRY.
3:44:24PM YES, CRC.
3:44:26PM TOO MANY ACRONYMS.
3:44:29PM HISTORIC CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
3:44:31PM SO MAYBE TEN MINUTES AT MOST.
3:44:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: PLEASURE OF THE GROUP?
3:44:41PM GO AHEAD.

3:44:41PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THIS MOTION HAS TO DO WITH SECTION 2.02
3:44:44PM WHICH IS TERM LIMITS FOR CITY COUNCIL. COUNCILMAN CARLSON
3:44:49PM BROUGHT UP TERM LIMITS FOR MAYORS.
3:44:52PM AND DURING THAT DISCUSSION WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT TERM LIMITS
3:44:54PM FOR COUNCIL.
3:44:55PM SO I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO BRING THAT UP.
3:44:58PM AND SO SECTION 2, I WOULD TAKE OFF THE END OF THAT SECTION
3:45:04PM 2.02 BASICALLY LETTING PEOPLE HAVE SOMEONE IN ONE DISTRICT
3:45:08PM OR ANOTHER AND BASICALLY SAYING YOU CAN RUN TWO CONSECUTIVE
3:45:11PM FULL TERMS, AND THEN NOT RUN FOR THE SUCCEEDING TERM BUT YOU
3:45:17PM COULD COME BACK AFTER FOUR YEARS.
3:45:18PM WE DEFINITELY DISCUSSED THAT.
3:45:19PM IT DIDN'T REALLY GO ANYWHERE.
3:45:21PM I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL GO ANYWHERE NOW.
3:45:23PM BUT I REALLY BELIEVE THAT -- I DON'T BELIEVE IN HOPPING.
3:45:29PM >>BILL CARLSON: I'LL SECOND THAT BUT CAN YOU SAY WHAT YEAR
3:45:33PM IT WOULD START?
3:45:35PM >>LYNN HURTAK: OBVIOUSLY, THE VOTERS WOULD HAVE TO VOTE ON
3:45:37PM IT SO IT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN AFTER THAT TERM.
3:45:39PM SO I GUESS IT WOULD BE 2027.
3:45:49PM AND AGAIN, IT DOESN'T PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM GOING AGAIN.
3:45:52PM THEY JUST HAVE TO PUT FOUR YEARS BETWEEN.
3:45:57PM >>BILL CARLSON: SECOND.
3:45:58PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR HAVING THAT IN WRITING.
3:46:08PM YES, MR. VIERA.

3:46:08PM >>LUIS VIERA: JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE SAYING THAT SOMEONE
3:46:12PM WHO REPRESENTS WHATEVER, A SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT CAN THEN
3:46:15PM GO CITY-WIDE, BUT THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOUR YEARS?
3:46:19PM >>LYNN HURTAK: UH-HUH.
3:46:21PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU.
3:46:22PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MS. HURTAK HAS THE MOTION WITH WHAT'S IN
3:46:27PM WRITING.
3:46:27PM WHO WOULD SECOND THAT?
3:46:29PM MR. CARLSON.
3:46:30PM ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
3:46:34PM YES, MR. MANISCALCO?
3:46:36PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COMMENCE IN 2027?
3:46:39PM >>LYNN HURTAK: UH-HUH.
3:46:41PM BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHOEVER IS VOTING ON THIS IS
3:46:44PM VOTING ON WHOEVER IS RUNNING.
3:46:46PM YOU COULDN'T GO BACKWARD ON THAT.
3:46:49PM I MEAN, IF SOMEONE WERE ELECTED AND WE COULDN'T JUST TALK IN
3:46:53PM OUR OFFICE.
3:46:54PM SO THAT WOULD BE FOR WHATEVER OFFICE THAT IS.
3:46:59PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: AFTER THEY ARE TERM LIMITED, TO TWO
3:47:02PM FOUR-YEAR TERMS.
3:47:04PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
3:47:04PM AND THEN TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK AND THEN COME BACK FOR
3:47:08PM TWO MORE FOUR-YEAR TERMS, IF THE VOTERS WILL HAVE THEM.
3:47:11PM AGAIN, THIS COULD BE DEBATED LATER BUT I KNOW WE TALKED

3:47:14PM ABOUT IT DURING THE CHARTER REVIEW AND I THINK IT'S
3:47:17PM SOMETHING WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT.
3:47:18PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:47:25PM COULD WE HAVE A MOTION?
3:47:26PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I HAVE THE MOTION.
3:47:29PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I'M SORRY, DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
3:47:31PM MR. CARLSON.
3:47:32PM CALL FOR THE VOTE TO PASS THIS.
3:47:34PM WE HAVE FOUR. IT PASSES.
3:47:36PM MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
3:47:40PM THANK YOU.
3:47:44PM YOU WERE RIGHT, TEN MINUTES.
3:47:46PM VERY GOOD.
3:47:47PM >>LYNN HURTAK: NOT EVEN.
3:47:48PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: NOT EVEN.
3:47:54PM THANK YOU FOR GOING THROUGH ALL THOSE SECTIONS, AND YOUR
3:48:00PM WILLINGNESS TO EXPLORE.
3:48:02PM SO IF WE LOOK AT OUR AGENDA OPEN PAGE 3 OF THE OFFICIAL
3:48:06PM DOCUMENTS THAT WENT OUT TO THE PUBLIC, ITEM NUMBER 2, FILE
3:48:12PM CM 22-76273.
3:48:28PM MAY I READ TO YOU THAT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO PREPARE AND
3:48:33PM PRESENT A DRAFT ORDINANCE SEPTEMBER 22ND, 2022 TO PUT THE
3:48:38PM CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD SUBPOENA POWER AND INDEPENDENT COUNCIL
3:48:42PM ON THE BALLOT FOR VOTERS TO DECIDE USING THE FOLLOWING
3:48:44PM CODES, AND THE CODES FOLLOW.

3:48:47PM THE ORIGINAL MOTION WAS INITIATED BY HURTAK, CARLSON ON JULY
3:48:51PM 28, 2022.
3:48:57PM MAY WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION ON THAT?
3:48:59PM MS. HURTAK.
3:48:59PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THIS IS MY MOTION, AND I ASKED THE CITY
3:49:06PM ATTORNEY ABOUT IF THERE WAS A DRAFT ORDINANCE, AND SHE SAID
3:49:11PM THAT WE HAD TALKED EARLIER ABOUT WAITING TO SEE WHERE IT
3:49:13PM WENT BEFORE A DRAFT ORDINANCE WAS CREATED.
3:49:18PM SO I BELIEVE WE REALLY HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC TODAY
3:49:27PM REGARDLESS OF HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE ISSUE.
3:49:30PM THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN.
3:49:35PM SO MY MOTION IS TO, I GUESS, WOULD BE FOR THE LEGAL
3:49:42PM DEPARTMENT TO DRAFT AN ORDINANCE, LET'S SAY, TO PUT
3:49:54PM INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ON THE BALLOT FOR THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.
3:49:57PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT SEPARATE?
3:50:08PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
3:50:09PM MY MOTION IS TO CREATE A DRAFT ORDINANCE BASED ON THE
3:50:21PM ORDINANCES MENTIONED IN THE MOTION WHICH IS MIAMI CODE,
3:50:24PM MIAMI-DADE CODE, BROWARD CODE, KEY WEST CHARTER, ORANGE
3:50:27PM COUNTY CODE, FOR INDEPENDENT COUNSEL TO PUT ON THE BALLOT
3:50:33PM FOR VOTERS TO DECIDE.
3:50:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. VIERA, ARE YOU SECONDING?
3:50:42PM >>LUIS VIERA: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT.
3:50:44PM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
3:50:44PM SO THERE IS FOR ME A SPLIT BETWEEN THE ATTORNEY, THE

3:50:48PM SEPARATE ATTORNEY, INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO
3:50:50PM CALL IT, AND SUBPOENA POWER.
3:50:52PM I THINK THERE ARE SEPARATE ISSUES THERE.
3:50:54PM ONE I THINK IS A REASONABLE CHOICE THAT I SUPPORT THE
3:50:58PM INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY.
3:50:59PM THE OTHER ONE IS NOT FOR REASONS I'LL STATE.
3:51:02PM WITH REGARDS TO THE SEPARATE ATTORNEY, I THINK THAT'S
3:51:05PM REASONABLE.
3:51:06PM AND I HAVE HAD THIS SAME POSITION ON THIS FOR ABOUT A YEAR
3:51:10PM AND A HALF, TWO YEARS, ET CETERA, WHICH IS THE CRB HAVING A
3:51:13PM SEPARATE ATTORNEY WHO IS NOT A DIRECT CITY ATTORNEY WHO IS
3:51:16PM PAID FOR BY THE CITY OF TAMPA OUT OF THE ATTORNEYS THAT
3:51:21PM CONTRACT, AND THERE ARE MANY, MANY OF THEM.
3:51:23PM THAT'S REASONABLE.
3:51:23PM I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY ISSUE WITH THAT.
3:51:25PM I DON'T SEE A DOWN-SIDE OR DETRIMENT FROM THAT.
3:51:28PM WITH REGARDS TO THE SUBPOENA POWER, EVEN IF IT DOES NOT DEAL
3:51:31PM WITH POLICE OFFICERS, MY BIG CHALLENGE WITH THAT, I BELIEVE
3:51:35PM IT WAS MENTION IN THEIR REMARKS, JUST BECAUSE THERE IS
3:51:40PM SOMETHING THAT IS CLOSED DISCIPLINARY CASE DOESN'T MEAN IT
3:51:43PM IS A CLOSED CRIMINAL CASE, AND THAT LEAVES REAL POTENTIAL
3:51:48PM FOR CHALLENGES THERE WITH REGARD TO ONGOING CRIMINAL CASES.
3:51:51PM I, AS AN ATTORNEY, RESPECTFULLY CANNOT SUPPORT, AND I KNOW
3:51:54PM THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH ME, AND
3:51:57PM THAT'S FINE.

3:51:58PM BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A CLOSED DISCIPLINARY CASE DOES
3:52:01PM NOT MEAN THAT THE CRIMINAL CASE IS CLOSED, AND THAT COULD
3:52:06PM LEAD TO A WHOLE LOT OF TROUBLE WITH OUR STATE ATTORNEY, WITH
3:52:08PM COURTS, ET CETERA, THAT I DON'T THINK IT WAS OUR INTENT TO
3:52:11PM GO THERE.
3:52:11PM SO THAT'S THE REAL DISPOSITIVE ISSUE FOR ME WITH REGARDS TO
3:52:15PM THE SUBPOENA POWER.
3:52:17PM AGAIN, THE ATTORNEY, GLAD TO SUPPORT IT, SECOND IT,
3:52:19PM ET CETERA.
3:52:22PM I GUESS -- SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE BROWARD, KEY WEST.
3:52:28PM I WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.
3:52:30PM SEPARATE COUNSEL FOR ME IS A REASONABLE STEP TO TAKE BUT
3:52:35PM SUBPOENA POWER IS NOT GIVEN THAT ISSUE.
3:52:36PM THANK YOU.
3:52:37PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:52:43PM OTHER DISCUSSION?
3:52:44PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THAT'S THE ONLY ONE FOR RIGHT NOW.
3:52:47PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: TO --
3:52:51PM >>LYNN HURTAK: TO HAVE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.
3:52:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: INDEPENDENT COUNSEL.
3:52:56PM SO IN HERE, ALTHOUGH IT SAYS SUBPOENA POWER, WE ARE TAKING
3:52:59PM THAT OUT.
3:53:00PM >>LYNN HURTAK: WE ARE DOING THEM AS TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS.
3:53:04PM TALKING ABOUT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND THEN WE WILL TALK
3:53:07PM ABOUT THE SUBPOENA POWER.

3:53:10PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
3:53:11PM DO WE HAVE THE SECOND FOR THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL?
3:53:13PM >>LUIS VIERA: I'LL SECOND.
3:53:17PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MR. VIERA, THANK YOU.
3:53:19PM OTHER DISCUSSIONS FOR INDEPENDENT COUNSEL?
3:53:23PM LET'S CALL FOR A VOTE.
3:53:27PM WE HAVE FOUR.
3:53:28PM THANK YOU.
3:53:28PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MS. HURTAK AND MR. GUDES.
3:53:34PM I BELIEVE I CALLED THAT CORRECTLY.
3:53:36PM YES?
3:53:37PM GOOD.
3:53:39PM SO THE SECOND ONE GOES WITH THE SUBPOENA POWER.
3:53:46PM ANY OTHER DESCRIPTION?
3:53:47PM I KNOW YOU SAID THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN.
3:53:48PM ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT BEFORE?
3:53:52PM YES, MR. CARLSON.
3:53:53PM >>BILL CARLSON: FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS NOT A CHANGE.
3:53:58PM IT'S IN SECTION 2.14.
3:53:59PM I READ IT OUT ALREADY.
3:54:01PM WE ALREADY HAD SUBPOENA POWER AND WE CAN DELEGATE IT.
3:54:04PM IF WE GET A CORRECT INTERPRETATION BY A CITY ATTORNEY, WE
3:54:07PM DON'T NEED TO ADD THIS.
3:54:08PM BUT BECAUSE OF AN INCORRECT INTERPRETATION IN THE PAST, BY A
3:54:12PM FORMER CITY ATTORNEY, WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS TO TRY TO CLARIFY

3:54:15PM THAT WE CAN DO THIS.
3:54:17PM BASED ON THE CHARTER AS IT IS, WE CAN DELEGATE THIS ALREADY.
3:54:21PM BUT BECAUSE OF THE INCORRECT THING WE NEED TO HAVE IT.
3:54:26PM THE OTHER THING I SHOULD SAY IS THAT TO ANY OF THE POLICE
3:54:29PM OFFICERS WATCHING, WE HAD SOME OF THEM TODAY, SOME OF THEM
3:54:33PM WATCHING.
3:54:33PM I THINK LIKE MY COLLEAGUES I DID NOT HAVE THE PBA SUPPORT
3:54:39PM BUT I SUPPORTED THEM 100% WHEN THEY ASKED FOR PAY RAISES,
3:54:45PM WHEN WE HAD 150 PEOPLE IN THE ROOM SAYING WE NEED TO CUT THE
3:54:48PM POLICE BUDGET, I AGREED WITH EVERYBODY ELSE TO INCREASE IT.
3:54:51PM AND WE GOT A LOT OF FLACK FOR THAT BUT WE DID IT BECAUSE WE
3:54:55PM WANT TO SUPPORT THE GOOD POLICE OFFICERS OUT THERE AND I
3:54:57PM THINK 99.9% OF THEM ARE GOOD.
3:55:00PM THERE ARE SOME BAD LEADERS IN THE PAST, THERE ARE SOME BAD
3:55:02PM MAYORS THAT HAVE GIVEN POLICIES THAT CAUSED US TO GO INTO A
3:55:06PM CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATION LIKE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, BUT 99.9%
3:55:11PM OF THE POLICE OFFICERS OUT THERE HAVE DEFENDED US AND
3:55:14PM PROTECTED US.
3:55:16PM BUT OF THAT .01 OR WHATEVER IT IS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE
3:55:20PM DO WHATEVER TO GET THEM OFF THE STREETS AND MAKE SURE THEY
3:55:22PM ARE SCRUTINIZED CAREFULLY.
3:55:24PM AND I HAVE MENTIONED PUBLICLY EXAMPLES OF THAT BEFORE.
3:55:28PM I ALSO VOTED TO SEPARATE THE HEALTH INSURANCE A COUPLE OF
3:55:32PM YEARS AGO, AND I ALSO VOTED TO GIVE PAY INCREASES NOT JUST
3:55:35PM TO POLICE BUT TO ALL EMPLOYEES.

3:55:37PM AND SO WITH THAT, THE UNION OR INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS
3:55:43PM MAY BE UPSET WITH US.
3:55:45PM I THINK ONE OF THE PEOPLE, MY AIDE MET WITH.
3:55:52PM IT SHOULDN'T HURT MORALE FOR ANYBODY WHO IS DOING THE RIGHT
3:55:55PM THING.
3:55:55PM PEOPLE WHO HAVE DO THE RIGHT THING SHOULD NOT FACE ANY KIND
3:55:58PM OF PROBLEMS, IF THERE'S OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS.
3:56:02PM AND THE LAST THING I WILL SAY IS WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS
3:56:04PM BEFORE, PEOPLE SAID TO US, WELL, YOU SHOULD TRUST THE MAYOR
3:56:08PM BECAUSE SHE'S A FORMER POLICE CHIEF, AND HER CHIEF OF STAFF
3:56:11PM IS A FORMER DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF.
3:56:14PM GUESS WHAT, IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, GETTING THE BUDGET
3:56:16PM INCREASE, GETTING THE POLICE CHIEF THE MAYOR WANTED, GETTING
3:56:21PM ALL THE BUDGET INCREASES THAT THE MAYOR WANTED, THE FORMER
3:56:24PM POLICE CHIEF STILL HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST VIOLENT CRIME
3:56:28PM RATES IN THE COUNTRY.
3:56:29PM THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE HAS GONE UP EVERY YEAR IN THE LAST
3:56:36PM THREE YEARS.
3:56:37PM SO IF THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE GOES UP, IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF
3:56:38PM THIS, IT'S BECAUSE OF BAD POLICIES IN THE PAST AND I WOULD
3:56:41PM ARGUE THAT POLICIES LIKE BIKING WHILE BLACK AND RENTING
3:56:44PM WHILE BLACK HAVE LED TO BE A FEELING OF OPPRESSION,
3:56:47PM HOPELESSNESS THAT LEADS PEOPLE TO WANT TO HAVE TO FEEL LIKE
3:56:50PM THEIR ONLY CHOICE IS CRIME.
3:56:52PM AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING ISSUES AND NOBODY IN

3:56:55PM THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN WILLING TO ADDRESS THOSE AT
3:56:57PM ALL.
3:56:58PM WE HAVE A NEW HEAD OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT I THINK IS
3:57:02PM INTERESTED IN IT, BUT THE SOLUTION IS NOT LOCKING UP PEOPLE
3:57:08PM WHO HAVEN'T COMMITTED CRIMES.
3:57:11PM IT'S ABSOLUTELY FOR OUR POLICE OFFICERS BUT WE NEED TO
3:57:13PM SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL AND NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT
3:57:16PM PEOPLE THAT ARE UNFAIRLY TREATED ARE PROTECTED.
3:57:18PM AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME REALLY BAD CASES EVEN IN THE LAST
3:57:21PM FEW MONTHS.
3:57:22PM AND NO BIG PUBLIC INVESTIGATIONS, NO BIG PRESS CONFERENCES
3:57:26PM TO SAY HOW HORRIBLE IT IS, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR
3:57:32PM PUBLIC FEELS PROTECTED, AND THE POLICE ARE DOING THE RIGHT
3:57:35PM THING, THEY NEED TO BE PROTECTED AS WELL.
3:57:37PM THIS SUBPOENA POWER DOES NOT APPLY TO POLICE AT ALL.
3:57:40PM IT ONLY APPLIES TO PEOPLE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN
3:57:42PM SOME WAY.
3:57:42PM AND WE ALREADY HAVE THE POLICY.
3:57:45PM IT'S NOT REALLY CHANGING ANYTHING.
3:57:46PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. CARLSON.
3:57:50PM MR. GUDES, DISCUSSION.
3:57:50PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: YES, MA'AM, THANK YOU.
3:57:53PM NOBODY ON THIS BOARD HAS EVER BEEN A POLICE OFFICER BUT ME.
3:57:56PM LET'S TALK ABOUT MORALE.
3:57:59PM THERE'S SOMETHING I KNOW ABOUT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

3:58:01PM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS A PARAMILITARY ORGANIZATION.
3:58:04PM WE FOLLOW ORDERS.
3:58:06PM WE DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD TO DO. WE MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT WE DO
3:58:09PM WHAT WE ARE TOLD TO DO BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SWORN TO
3:58:13PM DO.
3:58:13PM I ALWAYS SAY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GENERAL EMPLOYEE
3:58:17PM AND A POLICE EMPLOYEE.
3:58:19PM A POLICE EMPLOYEE, THE SERGEANT TELLS YOU TO DO SOMETHING,
3:58:21PM YOU JUST DO IT.
3:58:28PM YOU DON'T DO IT WHEN YOU GET AROUND TO IT.
3:58:31PM WHEN CITIZENS CALLS THE SERGEANT AND COMPLAINS, THE SERGEANT
3:58:33PM IS GOING TO CALL YOU OVER, AND HE'S GOING TO SAY, WRITE ME A
3:58:37PM LETTER.
3:58:39PM I WORK WITH HIM.
3:58:43PM GENERAL EMPLOYEE, IT'S DIFFERENT AT THAT PLACE OVER THERE.
3:58:51PM YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD TO DO AND THAT'S IT.
3:58:55PM MORALE.
3:58:58PM MORALE AIN'T GOING DOWN. LET ME TALK ABOUT MONEY. POLICE
3:59:00PM OFFICERS LIKE MONEY.
3:59:02PM MORALE GOES DOWN.
3:59:05PM A LOT OF POLICIES COME OUT THAT I DIDN'T LIKE.
3:59:09PM YOU MOVE ON.
3:59:10PM BUT AGAIN, MORALE USUALLY COMES WITH MONEY.
3:59:15PM AND WHEN POLICIES COME UP A LOT OF TIMES POLICE OFFICERS
3:59:19PM HATE CHANGE SOMETIMES, BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN, YOU DO IT THE

3:59:23PM FIRST COUPLE WEEKS AND AFTER THAT IT'S GONE.
3:59:26PM WHAT THE POLICY IS, IT'S WHAT YOU GOT TO DO.
3:59:30PM IT'S WHAT YOU GOT TO DO.
3:59:34PM AND I LOVE MY UNION FRIENDS, BUT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, IT'S
3:59:39PM NOT THE UNION'S POLICE DEPARTMENT. THEY SUPPORT THE
3:59:41PM OFFICERS IN AN INVESTIGATION AND THINGS THAT MIGHT BE WRONG
3:59:42PM IN THE DEPARTMENT.
3:59:48PM SOME THINGS, NO MATTER WHAT, THE CHIEF SAYS THIS IS GOING TO
3:59:50PM BE DONE, NO MATTER WHAT THE UNION SAYS, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH
3:59:53PM HOW IT GOES.
3:59:56PM BUT I RESPECT THE UNION.
4:00:00PM BUT FOR ME, WE TALK ABOUT PROCESSES.
4:00:08PM AND SOMEBODY CALLED ME AND SAID JOHN BENNETT WITH THE MAYOR
4:00:12PM -- I SAID, YEAH, THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS.
4:00:19PM YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WAS A TOUGH DAY.
4:00:22PM THAT WAS A TOUGH DAY.
4:00:28PM AND THEN I ASKED SEVERAL OF MY COUNCIL MEMBERS, LISTEN, ME
4:00:32PM BEING A NEW CHAIRMAN, I KNOW YOU GUYS DIDN'T AGREE AT THAT
4:00:34PM TIME, BUT WOULD YOU STAND WITH ME? REMEMBER THAT?
4:00:43PM I ASKED A GUY TO STAND BEHIND ME AND SUPPORT ME.
4:00:50PM WE DID THAT.
4:00:55PM WE STARTED WITHIN A YEAR'S TIME, WANTED THE CRB TO COME BACK
4:00:58PM AND DO WHAT THEY FELT NEEDED TO BE DONE.
4:01:05PM AND THE GENTLEMAN CAME TODAY AND HE WAS CLEAR -- AND YOU
4:01:12PM RECALL ME A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, WHAT THE PEOPLE WERE SAYING,

4:01:15PM CLARIFY WHAT THEY WANTED ON.
4:01:20PM AND HE CAME TODAY AND SAID THAT THEY HAD A 6 TO 2 VOTE THAT
4:01:26PM THEY THOUGHT ALL THIS SHOULD GO TO THE VOTERS, IF I AM NOT
4:01:30PM MISTAKEN.
4:01:30PM THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
4:01:36PM THEY FELT THEY HEARD.
4:01:40PM HE SAID THEY WERE NOT A LOT OF ISSUES.
4:01:43PM HE SAID THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS COOPERATIVE.
4:01:47PM HE SAID ALL THOSE THINGS.
4:01:48PM BUT HE SAID HIS BODY DECIDED TO VOTE, GO WITH THE PEOPLE
4:01:52PM SAID THEY WANTED AND FOR THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.
4:01:55PM AND THEY WANTED COUNCIL TO GIVE THEIR BLESSINGS TO ACCEPTED
4:01:59PM IT TO THE VOTERS, AND LET THE VOTERS DECIDE.
4:02:04PM I MET WITH THE CHIEF, AND HER ATTORNEY, AND WE TALKED.
4:02:11PM I TOLD THEM I WAS GOING TO MAKE PHONE CALLS AND TALK TO
4:02:14PM PEOPLE.
4:02:14PM I CALLED DOWN TO MIAMI, TALKED WITH SOME FRIENDS DOWN THERE,
4:02:18PM CALLED MY FRIEND IN BROWARD, TALKED TO THEM ABOUT HOW THEIR
4:02:21PM BOARDS WORKED.
4:02:25PM I TELL THEM WE WEREN'T HAVING ANY DIFFICULTIES, NO PROBLEMS
4:02:28PM AT ALL.
4:02:32PM EVEN THE PROCESS.
4:02:33PM BUT RIGHT NOW HAVE TO DECIDE, I DON'T CARE ABOUT AN
4:02:39PM ENDORSEMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
4:02:41PM THAT'S NOT MY THING.

4:02:43PM MY THING IS TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE.
4:02:44PM PEOPLE ELECTED TO DO A JOB.
4:02:46PM THEY ELECTED ME DO A JOB.
4:02:52PM MY MIND IS STILL TICKING UNTIL SHE SAYS IT CALLS FOR A VOTE,
4:02:56PM BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT THIS GENTLEMAN HAS SAID, THE
4:02:59PM CHAIRMAN UP HERE TODAY AND SAID THIS BOARD VOTED TO TAKE IT
4:03:03PM TO THE VOTERS AND ASKED THIS COUNCIL TO DO THAT.
4:03:08PM I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
4:03:09PM I CAN'T BE AFRAID OF MY DECISION.
4:03:12PM I NEVER HAVE.
4:03:13PM NEVER WILL BE.
4:03:14PM SO I'LL SIT BACK AND LISTEN TO OTHER COUNCILMAN'S COMMENTS.
4:03:17PM BUT IN MY MIND, A PERSON ON THAT BOARD SPOKE.
4:03:23PM I YIELD BACK.
4:03:24PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU.
4:03:28PM THE DISCUSSION POINT IS SUBPOENA POWER, MR. MIRANDA.
4:03:32PM YES, MS. HURTAK.
4:03:33PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I HAVE A FEW POINTS.
4:03:38PM WE HEARD, AND WE HAVE BEEN HEARING CITIZENS ASKING FOR
4:03:41PM TRANSPARENCY.
4:03:46PM I AGREE WITH MR. CARLSON.
4:03:47PM I HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS LONG AS YOU HAVE, BUT I HAVE
4:03:50PM SUPPORTED THE POLICE AND EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR, LOOKED
4:03:54PM THROUGH THE BUDGET, LOOKS GOOD TO ME, HONESTLY.
4:03:56PM I THINK WE SHOULD PAY OUR OFFICERS MORE.

4:03:59PM WHEN WE PAY OFFICERS MORE IT GOES BACK TO MY JOB AS A
4:04:03PM TEACHER, WHEN I WAS A TEACHER.
4:04:05PM YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY HATES YOU, EVERYBODY THINKS TEACHERS ARE
4:04:09PM TERRIBLE EXCEPT FOR THEIR KIDS' TEACHER.
4:04:12PM THEY LOVED US, THEY LOVED THE SCHOOL, BUT ALL THE OTHERS ARE
4:04:15PM TERRIBLE.
4:04:16PM AND SO THAT AFFECTS MORALE.
4:04:19PM BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU GOT INTO.
4:04:21PM SO WHEN I WAS A TEACHER, THE WORST WAS GOING TO A COCKTAIL
4:04:24PM PARTY AND SOMEONE WOULD SAY, WHAT DO YOU DO?
4:04:28PM OH, I AM A THIRD GRADE TEACHER AND THEY LOOK AT YOU LIKE,
4:04:31PM OH, YOU SWEET LITTLE THING.
4:04:32PM AND THAT HAPPENED ALL THE TIME.
4:04:34PM THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY COULD HAVE A SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATION
4:04:37PM WITH ME.
4:04:38PM I JUST FINISHED THE POLICE ACADEMY, WHICH IS AWESOME, AND BY
4:04:41PM THE WAY I RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF HOW PEOPLE
4:04:44PM FEEL.
4:04:45PM I THINK IT WAS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE.
4:04:47PM I LEARNED A LOT THAT I DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE.
4:04:50PM BUT IN THAT, ONE OF THE OFFICERS MENTIONED THE FACT THAT SHE
4:04:55PM DOESN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT SHE DOES WHEN SHE GOES TO THE GYM.
4:04:57PM SHE KIND OF WORKS OUT BY HERSELF BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T WANT TO
4:05:00PM MENTION IT.
4:05:00PM I HAVE BEEN IN THOSE SHOES.

4:05:02PM I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT SHE MEANS.
4:05:04PM AND I THINK THAT'S SAD.
4:05:06PM I THINK THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.
4:05:07PM BUT WE ALL SIGNED UP TO DO A JOB, AND I HATE TO SAY IT, WE
4:05:13PM KNOW WE ARE GOING TO BE CRITICIZED BUT I STILL WANTED TO
4:05:19PM WORK FOR THE PUBLIC AND DO THE JOB THAT I FELT PASSIONATE
4:05:23PM ABOUT, AND I KNOW ALL OF OUR OFFICERS FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT.
4:05:27PM AFTER I GOT APPOINTED, MY VERY FIRST JOB WAS THE UNION
4:05:32PM OFFICE.
4:05:33PM I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE ANY MORE SUPPORT FROM ME NOW
4:05:36PM THAN THEY DID THEN, BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAD THAT DISCUSSION.
4:05:40PM I DON'T MIND.
4:05:41PM I WILL TALK TO ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO TALK TO ME ABOUT ANY
4:05:44PM ISSUE.
4:05:46PM IN TALKING TO SEVERAL PEOPLE WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION, I
4:05:54PM GOT SOMEONE TO SAY THAT THEY AGREED THAT NOTHING WOULD
4:05:56PM REALLY CHANGE, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY A MORAL ISSUE.
4:05:59PM AND FOR ME THE FACT THAT NOTHING WOULD CHANGE KIND OF SWAY
4:06:07PM IT.
4:06:08PM ALSO THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DO APPRECIATE THE CRB VOTED
4:06:14PM THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE SUBPOENA ON THE BALLOT AS WELL.
4:06:18PM BUT WE AS A BOARD CAN'T THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
4:06:21PM SITTING ON THAT BOARD, BECAUSE JUST LIKE US, THEY ARE ONLY
4:06:24PM THERE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.
4:06:25PM WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BOARD AS A BOARD, WITH EMPTY SEATS,

4:06:30PM LIKE HOW DO WE WANT THIS TO RUN?
4:06:33PM SO THOSE ARE MY POINTS THAT I WANT TO BRING UP.
4:06:34PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU MS. HURTAK.
4:06:39PM YES, MR. CARLSON.
4:06:40PM >>BILL CARLSON: JUST ONE MORE QUICK THING.
4:06:43PM YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT BODY WORN CAMERAS.
4:06:59PM BECAUSE IF A POLICE OFFICER DID SOMETHING BAD, IT HAS PROOF
4:07:03PM ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
4:07:04PM AND WE HAVE HAD TO TWEAK THAT FROM TIME TO TIME.
4:07:08PM BUT IN THE CASE THAT SOMEBODY ALLEGES THAT A POLICE OFFICER
4:07:10PM DID SOMETHING BADLY AND A BODY WORN CAMERA DOESN'T PICK IT
4:07:14PM UP, THE CRB COULD SUBPOENA A CAMERA ACROSS THE STREET TO
4:07:19PM LOOK AT IT.
4:07:19PM AND IF THE POLICE OFFICER DID SOMETHING WRONG IT COULD PROVE
4:07:22PM THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG.
4:07:23PM BUT IF IT DIDN'T, IT ALSO DEFEND THE POLICE OFFICER.
4:07:27PM SO IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING BAD, YOU DON'T GET
4:07:31PM INVESTIGATED.
4:07:32PM BUT IF SOMEBODY UNFAIRLY ALLEGES -- IF I WAS A POLICE
4:07:37PM OFFICER I WOULD WANT THE CRB TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT
4:07:40PM INFORMATION BECAUSE IT MIGHT HELP EXONERATE ME.
4:07:43PM I HAVE BEEN AROUND ENOUGH TRIALS AND SEEN PEOPLE SET UP THAT
4:07:46PM IT'S ESSENTIAL TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION Y.WOULD WE NOT
4:07:49PM WANT THE CRB TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE?
4:07:51PM SO I THINK EVEN THOUGH RIGHT NOW SOME OF THE POLICE OFFICERS

4:07:54PM ARE AGAINST IT, I THINK IT WOULD AS MUCH PROTECT THEM AS
4:07:59PM HURT THEM.
4:07:59PM BUT AS LONG AS THEY ARE STAYING OUT OF TROUBLE, THEN IT
4:08:02PM SHOULDN'T CAUSE A PROBLEM AT ALL.
4:08:04PM THANK YOU.
4:08:07PM >> MR. MANISCALCO.
4:08:08PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
4:08:08PM I APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS.
4:08:09PM AND COUNCILMAN VIERA BROUGHT UP ISSUES REGARDING CLOSED
4:08:13PM CASES AND OPEN INVESTIGATION, ON THE OTHER END, I HAVE
4:08:18PM ISSUES WITH FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS, WHAT IF SOMEBODY
4:08:20PM DOESN'T WANT TO HAND OVER FOOTAGE IF THEY HAVE THAT.
4:08:24PM WHAT IF SOMETHING TAKES PLACE IN A CONDO OR APARTMENT
4:08:29PM COMPLEX, DOES EVERYBODY WITH DOORBELL FOOTAGE GET A
4:08:33PM SUBPOENA?
4:08:34PM WHAT IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO COOPERATE OR HAND OVER?
4:08:39PM DO THEY GET CHARGED WITH, WHAT IS IT, CONTEMPT OR WHATEVER
4:08:43PM IT IS WHEN THEY ARE NOT HANDING OVER INFORMATION?
4:08:46PM I DOESN'T KNOW.
4:08:46PM I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
4:08:49PM AND JUDGE SALCINA WAS HERE EARLIER, TO DISCUSS FURTHER
4:08:54PM TALKING POINTS.
4:08:56PM THE STATE ATTORNEY, GRAND JURY TO THE COUNTY, GETTING
4:08:59PM INVOLVED. IF THERE IS A BIGGER CASE, HOW THAT BOARD CAN
4:09:03PM LOOK AT CASES, OR REMAND THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

4:09:08PM WILL IT CHANGE ANYTHING?
4:09:25PM NOW LOOKING AT CLOSED CASES.
4:09:36PM WITHIN REZONING, I WATCHED AND AGAIN I BROUGHT UP THE TIME
4:09:40PM THAT I HAVE BEEN HERE.
4:09:41PM I WAS HERE TO VOTE FOR THAT.
4:09:44PM I WAS HERE AND SPEAKING WITH MAYOR BUCKHORN TO FIND OUT TO
4:09:49PM COME TO AN AGREEMENT FOR A STALEMATE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN
4:09:54PM THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR FOR THAT BOARD TO BE CREATED.
4:09:56PM THEN MOST RECENTLY, AND COUNCILMAN GUDES TALKED ABOUT
4:09:59PM COOPERATION BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, AND
4:10:05PM SIGNED THEIR AGREEMENT.
4:10:06PM YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MADE ADVANCES, AND WOULD SUBPOENA POWER
4:10:14PM TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
4:10:16PM CONSIDERING THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT CLOSED CASES.
4:10:18PM WHAT IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HAND OVER THAT FOOTAGE?
4:10:22PM THEN WHAT?
4:10:23PM IS IT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY?
4:10:25PM IS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DOING ENOUGH OF A GOOD JOB IN
4:10:27PM INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS?
4:10:28PM I DON'T KNOW.
4:10:28PM SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY YES.
4:10:30PM SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY NO.
4:10:32PM BUT, AGAIN, I RECOLLECT OH THE CONCERNS PRIMARILY FOR
4:10:38PM COUNCILMAN MEMBER VIERA MENTIONED REGARDING IT COULD BE A
4:10:41PM CLOSED CASE, IT COULD BE ACTIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

4:10:43PM ANOTHER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION WHICH ALSO IS ANOTHER SET OF
4:10:48PM EYES.
4:10:50PM SO THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON THE ISSUE.
4:10:53PM THANK YOU.
4:10:56PM >> THANK YOU, MR. MANISCALCO.
4:10:57PM I THINK WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO WAS
4:10:59PM OBSTRUCTION WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
4:11:01PM AM I CORRECT?
4:11:02PM THANK YOU.
4:11:03PM MS. HURTAK.
4:11:04PM >>LYNN HURTAK: WE ACTUALLY HAVE THREE CITIZEN BOARDS THAT
4:11:08PM ARE NOT ELECTED THAT ARE APPOINTED BOARDS THAT ALREADY HAVE
4:11:13PM SUBPOENA POWER.
4:11:13PM ONE OF THOSE IS CODE ENFORCEMENT.
4:11:15PM SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE CODE ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE VERY
4:11:19PM SIMILAR, AND THAT THEY WOULD OFTEN RING DOORBELLS AND THINGS
4:11:24PM LIKE THAT, AND I'VE HEARD NOTHING.
4:11:24PM >> I WAS ON THAT BOARD. [OFF MICROPHONE]
4:11:29PM >>LYNN HURTAK: BUT, YES, BUT YOU HAD THE POWER.
4:11:35PM THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.
4:11:36PM THAT'S KIND OF THE ISSUE.
4:11:38PM OKAY.
4:11:43PM IT SEEMS LIKE A BIG KERFUFFLE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT JUST THE
4:11:48PM BOARD COULD HAVE -- BUT I KEEP COMING BACK TO THE FACT THAT
4:11:54PM THAT GENTLEMAN SHOWED UP THIS MORNING AND SAID THAT THE

4:11:57PM BOARD ITSELF VOTED TO SEND IT TO THE VOTERS.
4:12:00PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: OTHER COMMENTS?
4:12:12PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I DID HEAR EVERYTHING BY BOTH SIDES AND
4:12:15PM THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE HERE, AND THANK THEM FOR TAKING
4:12:18PM THE TIME TO COME, ALL OF THEM.
4:12:20PM THIS IS A DIFFICULT ONE.
4:12:21PM YOU ARE LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN AMERICA, TODAY,
4:12:27PM REGARDING ANYTHING REGARDING LAW ENFORCEMENT.
4:12:33PM IT'S A SAD SITUATION HOPPING THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE COUNTRY ON
4:12:37PM BOTH SIDE.
4:12:39PM AND IT'S TIME WE STEP UP AND DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE OURSELVES.
4:12:44PM WE HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.
4:12:45PM THIS COUNCIL HAS SUBPOENA POWER.
4:12:47PM AND I DON'T BELIEVE PERSONALLY THAT IT SHOULD BE GIVEN TO
4:12:51PM ANOTHER BOARD THAT WAS NEVER ELECTED.
4:12:57PM NOT ELECTED AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
4:12:59PM I HEARD WHAT JUDGE SALCINA SAID TODAY, AND HE MADE REFERENCE
4:13:05PM TO WHAT IF, AND I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW HE SAID IT BUT
4:13:10PM HE PHRASED A SITUATION THAT IF YOU LIMITED IMMUNITY OR
4:13:14PM SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT IS PROBLEM SOME BECAUSE IF
4:13:18PM SOMEBODY HAS IMMUNITY AND IT GOES TO COURT AND YOU CAN'T DO
4:13:22PM ANYTHING, WHAT'S THE SENSE OF DOING IT UNLESS YOU REALLY
4:13:24PM UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON?
4:13:25PM SO THE POWERS OF SUBPOENAS ARE TO THE JUDGES, THE STATE
4:13:33PM ATTORNEY, PROSECUTOR, POLICE, THE FBI OR SOMETHING LIKE

4:13:40PM THAT, AND IT'S A BE VERY DELICATE SITUATION THAT WE SHOULD
4:13:45PM HAVE AND RESPECT AT ALL TIMES.
4:13:47PM AND TO GIVE THAT AUTHORITY AWAY.
4:13:52PM ANOTHER WAY I WOULD SAY YOU GIVE THAT AUTHORITY AND BE
4:13:56PM RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO WITH
4:14:00PM IT, I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT RISK.
4:14:02PM I BELIEVE LAW ENFORCEMENT ON BOTH SIDES ON THE JUDICIAL AND
4:14:06PM THE POLICE OFFICE, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, SO FORTH AND SO ON,
4:14:11PM ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN WITH WHAT THEY HAVE TODAY.
4:14:13PM AMERICA HAS CHANGED.
4:14:15PM AND IT HASN'T BEEN FOR THE BETTER.
4:14:18PM ALL OF US HAVE CHANGED.
4:14:19PM WE HAVE A COUNTRY NOW WHERE SOMEBODY SAID I COULD DO THIS
4:14:23PM AND DO THIS AND THAT.
4:14:24PM NOBODY IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO ME, WITHOUT MENTIONING
4:14:26PM NAMES OR DOING WHATEVER.
4:14:28PM AND INSTEAD IT'S BEEN AN INCREASE IN CRIME.
4:14:37PM I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CAUSE.
4:14:39PM GUNS IS ONLY PART OF IT.
4:14:42PM PEOPLE FOR WHATEVER REASON, THERE IS MORE MURDERS TODAY IN
4:14:45PM AMERICA THAN EVER BEFORE.
4:14:48PM WE USED TO LOOK AT THE COUNTRY IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
4:14:51PM AND SAY LOOK AT THEM YO-YOS.
4:14:53PM NOW THEY ARE LOOKING AT US AND SAYING WHAT'S WRONG WITH
4:14:55PM THEM?

4:14:56PM WE ARE BECOMING SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT TO BE.
4:14:58PM AND IT'S JUST TO THE POINT THAT SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO TAKE
4:15:03PM RESPONSIBILITY, AND IT'S HARDER AND HARDER TO GET ANYONE TO
4:15:08PM BECOME A POLICE OFFICER IN THIS COUNTRY, FOR WHATEVER
4:15:11PM REASON. I DON'T KNOW THE CAUSE.
4:15:13PM I WISH I DID.
4:15:14PM BUT THEREFORE I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING SUBPOENA POWERS TO GO
4:15:18PM ANYWHERE.
4:15:18PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR CLARITY.
4:15:23PM MR. GUDES.
4:15:23PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WELL, THERE YOU HAVE IT.
4:15:29PM THERE'S NO WAY TO BELABOR IT, WAIT AROUND.
4:15:32PM JUST TAKE THE VOTE.
4:15:35PM I SAT IN A DISTRICT THAT DEPENDS ON ME TO VOTE BY
4:15:40PM CONSCIENCE, TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
4:15:42PM I HAD A GENTLEMAN COME HERE TODAY WHO WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF
4:15:45PM THE BOARD.
4:15:46PM THAT BOARD BE ENTRUSTED TO DO THE RIGHT THING, GAVE THEM
4:15:50PM RULES AND REGULATIONS TO COME BACK WITHIN A YEAR, TELL US
4:15:53PM WHAT THEY FELT THEY NEEDED OR THEY DIDN'T NEED.
4:15:56PM THEY CAME TODAY.
4:15:57PM THE CHAIRMAN CAME TODAY.
4:15:58PM HE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING TO COME.
4:16:01PM SO WE HAVE DONE THAT BOARD A DISSERVICE, IN MY OPINION.
4:16:06PM WE CAN'T BE AFRAID OF THE UNKNOWN.

4:16:09PM I AM NOT AFRAID OF THE UNKNOWN.
4:16:11PM BUT I WILL SAY THAT IT WILL NOT PASS TODAY TO THE VOTERS,
4:16:16PM BUT I AM GOING TO SUPPORT BECAUSE THAT BOARD WORKED HARD,
4:16:22PM AND WENT THROUGH ALL THE SCRUTINY AND THEY WERE GIVEN A TASK
4:16:26PM AND CAME BACK AND GAVE US THEIR OPINION FOR THEIR EVALUATION
4:16:31PM AND IT WAS-6-2.
4:16:34PM SO I WILL SUPPORT IT.
4:16:35PM I KNOW IT'S GOING TO FAIL BUT I WILL SAY TO THE VOTERS, YOU
4:16:37PM KNOW, HOLD ON, TRUST IN THE PROCESS AND TRUST THAT PEOPLE
4:16:43PM ARE GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS.
4:16:45PM AND MOST OF THE TIME THEY ALL DO WORK OUT.
4:16:48PM BUTT FOR ME, I HAVE TO SUPPORT THIS TODAY AND SUPPORT THE
4:16:53PM DECISION OF THE CRB BOARD.
4:16:55PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THANK YOU, MR. GUDES.
4:16:59PM IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE SUGGESTING WE CALL FOR THE VOTE.
4:17:01PM LET'S CALL FOR THE VOTE.
4:17:02PM AND THIS DEALS WITH THE SUBPOENA POWER.
4:17:09PM PLEASE SHOW OF HANDS.
4:17:11PM WE HAVE THREE.
4:17:12PM WE HAVE MR. CARLSON, MS. HURTAK, AND MR. GUDES.
4:17:20PM THANK YOU.
4:17:21PM IT DID NOT PASS.
4:17:25PM I WOULD LIKE TO YIELD BACK TO THE CHAIRPERSON, MR. CITRO, AS
4:17:30PM WE LOOK AT THE FULL AGENDA.
4:17:34PM WE HAVE ITEM 3 AND 4.

4:17:36PM HOW DID YOU WANT TO PROCEED ON THAT?
4:17:39PM ACTUALLY, MY ROLE AS THE FACILITATOR COULD INCLUDE THAT BUT
4:17:46PM NEVERTHELESS HAD TO DO MORE SPECIFICALLY WITH WALKING
4:17:49PM THROUGH THE ELEMENTS OF THE CHARTER, AND MR. SHELBY'S
4:17:53PM DOCUMENT.
4:17:55PM NUMBER 3 IS THE COUNCIL TO DISCUSS THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS TO
4:17:59PM INCLUDE DISCUSSION ON THE POSSIBILITY OF AN ATTORNEY
4:18:01PM REPRESENTING THE POSITION OF THE MAYOR.
4:18:04PM WE TALKED ABOUT THAT TO SOME EXTENT.
4:18:07PM NUMBER 4, COUNCIL, TO DISCUSS WHY OR IF THE CITY ATTORNEY OR
4:18:10PM OTHER PARTIES IN THE CITY SHOULD BE ABLE TO APPROVE
4:18:13PM CONTRACTS.
4:18:13PM HOW DID YOU WANT TO PROCEED ON THESE?
4:18:17PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: ARE THESE THE CHARTER AMENDMENT THAT THE
4:18:19PM COUNCIL WISHES TO DISCUSS?
4:18:20PM WE DISCUSSED THIS.
4:18:21PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: THEN THIS IS FINE BECAUSE THE AGENDAS DID
4:18:24PM NOT NECESSARILY MATCH UP, AS YOU KNOW, SO I WANT TO CLARIFY
4:18:32PM HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS.
4:18:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: THIS IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3 AND 4.
4:18:38PM THANK YOU.
4:18:38PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO THAT CONCLUDES THE ITEMS FOR THE
4:18:49PM AGENDA.
4:18:49PM THE NEXT STEP IS TIMELINE TO LOOK AT.
4:18:52PM MS. HURTAK?

4:18:55PM >>LYNN HURTAK: BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER I WANT TO SAY THANK
4:18:57PM YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TODAY.
4:18:58PM THIS HAS BEEN THE CALMEST MEETING THAT WE HAVE HAD IN QUITE
4:19:00PM SOME TIME.
4:19:01PM SO I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT.
4:19:04PM I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
4:19:06PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT.
4:19:07PM THANK YOU.
4:19:08PM >>BILL CARLSON: ANY OTHER COMMENT THAT WOULD LIKE TO MAKE
4:19:10PM COMMENT?
4:19:12PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LIKEWISE I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU
4:19:13PM HAVE DONE, YOUR MANNERISM, THE WAY YOU TREAT IT YOURSELF.
4:19:19PM YOU HAVE TO COME IN MORE OFTEN.
4:19:21PM WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF.
4:19:23PM >> THANK YOU.
4:19:25PM INVITATION ACCEPTED.
4:19:27PM NEXT STEPS, ON THE SCREEN, HERE IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING TO
4:19:30PM DO, THAT THE NOTETAKER THROUGHOUT, WE ALSO HAD MORE THAN ONE
4:19:35PM NOTETAKER GETTING YOUR COMMENTS AND MAKING SURE YOU GET A
4:19:42PM FULL REPORT.
4:19:43PM SO THOSE THAT DID PASS, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THE
4:19:46PM BALLOT LANGUAGE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CHAIR BY NOVEMBER
4:19:49PM 18th.
4:19:50PM DOES THAT WORK?
4:19:56PM >> YES.

4:19:59PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: HAS TO BE BY THE --
4:20:02PM >> [OFF MICROPHONE]
4:20:09PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT WOULD BE TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY.
4:20:11PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: YES.
4:20:13PM SO GIVE US A DATE.
4:20:15PM BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR TIMELINE.
4:20:17PM THIS IS NOT OUR TIMELINE.
4:20:18PM WE WANT TO DO THIS SO THAT THERE'S A RECORD THAT YOU HAVE
4:20:22PM ALL AGREED HOW THIS WILL PROCEED.
4:20:25PM MS. ZELMAN, WHAT WAS IT, THE 16th WE NEED TO HAVE THIS
4:20:29PM TO YOU?
4:20:30PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: [OFF MICROPHONE] NOVEMBER 17th IS THE
4:20:38PM SIRE DEADLINE FOR ANY ITEM TO BE PRESENTED ON THE DECEMBER
4:20:40PM 1st AGENDA.
4:20:44PM SO THE ORDINANCE WILL HAVE TO BE WRITTEN AND INTO SIRE BY
4:20:49PM NOVEMBER 17th.
4:20:52PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: AND THAT WOULD BE TWO DAYS BEFORE IT?
4:20:54PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: IF I CAN, MR. CHAIRMAN.
4:20:55PM >>JOSEPH CITRO: MR. SHELBY.
4:20:57PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WITH THE TIME CRUNCH BEING WHAT IT IS, I
4:21:00PM DON'T KNOW TO WHAT EXTENT I WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT
4:21:02PM DEADLINE.
4:21:04PM I GUESS IT'S A QUESTION OF WORKING WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY
4:21:07PM AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S STAFF, AND --
4:21:11PM >>BILL CARLSON: WE SAID ALL ALONG IT WOULD BE AN OUTSIDE

4:21:13PM ATTORNEY WORKING FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND A THAT
4:21:16PM THE CITY ATTORNEY GAVE US A LIST AND WE COULD PICK ONE.
4:21:20PM SO WE COULD PICK THAT ATTORNEY ON THURSDAY IF WE WANT.
4:21:22PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE NEXT STEPS THEN.
4:21:25PM >> PICK THE ATTORNEY ON THURSDAY?
4:21:31PM TO PUT THIS IN NEXT STEPS SO --
4:21:34PM >>BILL CARLSON: TO WORK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND CITY
4:21:35PM COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
4:21:36PM AND SO THE CITY ATTORNEY OFFERED US A PREAPPROVED LIST
4:21:41PM ASSOCIATION WE DON'T HAVE THE LIST HERE UNLESS CITY ATTORNEY
4:21:43PM HAS IT, SO WE JUST NEED TO GO --
4:21:49PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I ONLY THINK WE HAVE TWO THINGS THAT PASSED
4:21:53PM TO BEGIN WITH.
4:21:55PM SO, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF TIME TO DO THAT, TO AT
4:22:00PM LEAST GET A DECENT THING.
4:22:07PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO WE HAVE --
4:22:09PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: NOW WERE APPROVED.
4:22:10PM >>LYNN HURTAK: CITY COUNCIL SHELBY, JUST TO REMIND YOU, WE
4:22:19PM ONLY FORWARDED TWO THINGS.
4:22:21PM YEAH, ONLY TWO THINGS.
4:22:22PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WELL, I THINK IF WE CAN, BEFORE WE CLOSE
4:22:25PM UP, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE AN AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT IS MOVING
4:22:29PM FORWARD.
4:22:30PM IS THERE A WAY --
4:22:32PM >>LYNN HURTAK: THERE ARE FOUR THINGS.

4:22:34PM SO WE ARE NOT TALKING LIKE A GIANT.
4:22:36PM SO WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT THIS THURSDAY AND THEN MOVE
4:22:40PM ON.
4:22:40PM >>BILL CARLSON: WE ALSO HAVE THE ISSUE THAT THAT ONLY
4:22:44PM PASSED BY FOUR VOTES SO IF THE MAYOR VETOS IT --
4:22:48PM >>LYNN HURTAK: YES.
4:22:50PM SO, I MEAN --
4:22:52PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE WILL GET A REPORTING ON THOSE FOUR
4:22:57PM THINGS.
4:22:58PM GIVE US ONE MOMENT.
4:23:08PM NEVERTHELESS, CONSIDERING THAT THERE'S FOUR ITEMS, WHAT
4:23:21PM TIMELINE DATE DID WE COME UP WITH?
4:23:26PM WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET YOU THE FINAL VOTES NOTES IN THE
4:23:29PM NEXT DAY OR TWO, IF NOT SOONER.
4:23:36PM THEY ARE ALREADY FROM THE PowerPoint.
4:23:39PM MR. VIERA?
4:23:41PM >>LUIS VIERA: IF I MAY, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK -- JUST MAKING
4:23:46PM SURE.
4:23:46PM IF WE ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING WITHIN A WEEK, MAYBE WE CAN
4:23:49PM DELEGATE TO OUR CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY MR. SHELBY TO TAKE A
4:23:53PM LOOK AT THE LIST, FIND SOME ATTORNEYS FROM THAT LIST THAT HE
4:23:55PM WOULD FIND APPROPRIATE AND PROPER, JUST TO EXPEDITE THE
4:23:59PM PROCESS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT A HUGE LIST OF 10, 15
4:24:03PM LAW FIRMS.
4:24:04PM >>BILL CARLSON: SECOND.

4:24:05PM >>LUIS VIERA: JUST EXPEDITE IT.
4:24:10PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE WILL ADD THAT.
4:24:11PM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN WE VOTE ON THAT?
4:24:13PM >>ANDREW ZELMAN: SO WE HAVE A LIST OF ATTORNEYS THAT HAVE
4:24:20PM BEEN PREAPPROVED.
4:24:21PM WE DON'T HAVE THE BUDGET.
4:24:23PM SO WE ALSO NEED TO DISCUSS THE BUDGET AS SOON AS IT'S GOING
4:24:27PM TO COME OUT OF THE CITY COUNCIL BUDGET TO PAY FOR THEM.
4:24:33PM WHAT WE CAN DO IS FROM THE ATTORNEYS THAT RESPONDED TO OUR
4:24:35PM RFQ, WE WILL IDENTIFY THOSE, BECAUSE THEY INDICATED WHICH
4:24:41PM SUBJECT AREAS THEY WISHED TO BE HIRED FOR.
4:24:46PM SO WE WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THEM AND IDENTIFY THOSE THAT
4:24:49PM WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT KIND OF EXPERIENCE OR OFFER TO DO THE
4:24:52PM KIND OF WORK THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DRAFT.
4:24:56PM IF ANY OF YOU KNOW OF SOMEONE THAT'S ON OUR LIST THAT YOU
4:25:00PM WOULD SUGGEST, FEEL FREE TO TELL US BUT WE'LL GO THROUGH
4:25:03PM WHAT WE GOT BACK AND SEE WHICH ON THE LIST WOULD BE
4:25:06PM APPROPRIATE.
4:25:07PM AND THEN WE HAVE TO DISCUSS THE BUDGET ISSUE AS WELL.
4:25:11PM AND JUST TO CLARIFY THE TIMING, NOVEMBER 17th IS THE
4:25:16PM DATE TO GET THE ORDINANCE UPLOADED INTO SIRE, SO THAT YOU
4:25:20PM ALL CAN ADDRESS IT ON DECEMBER 1st, FOR FIRST READING.
4:25:26PM BUT OF COURSE YOU WILL HAVE TIME TO BE REVIEW IT IN BETWEEN
4:25:29PM NOVEMBER 17th AND DECEMBER 1st.
4:25:31PM >>BILL CARLSON: IS IT OKAY IF WE SCHEDULE THE FIRST HEARING

4:25:33PM FOR DECEMBER 1st AND THE SECOND ONE FOR DECEMBER
4:25:35PM 15th?
4:25:37PM DECEMBER 1st IS EITHER A MORNING OR NIGHT AND THEN
4:25:40PM DECEMBER 15th IS ONLY MORNING.
4:25:42PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: THAT'S A QUESTION MR. SHELBY HAD COME UP
4:25:45PM WITH THE DATE SO I WILL LET HIM ANSWER THAT.
4:25:47PM >>BILL CARLSON: WE DIDN'T VOTE ON THAT YET, RIGHT?
4:25:50PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THOSE ARE THE DATES OF MEETINGS THAT YOU
4:25:52PM HAVE AVAILABLE.
4:25:54PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: QUESTION FOR MS. ZELMAN.
4:25:59PM YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT CITY ATTORNEY DOESN'T HAVE THE
4:26:02PM BUDGET.
4:26:02PM I AM KIND OF CONFUSED WHEN WE APPROVED THE LIST, WE APPROVED
4:26:05PM MONEY FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE --
4:26:08PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: NO, THAT WAS A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING THAT I
4:26:10PM AM TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE.
4:26:11PM EACH CONTRACT DID HAVE A BUILT-IN $100,000 CAP BUT THAT
4:26:15PM DIDN'T MEAN THAT YOU APPROVED $100,000 FOR LAW FIRMS.
4:26:19PM OUR INTERNAL BUDGET FOR OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS IS ALMOST
4:26:23PM EXHAUSTED FROM THE YEAR 2023 ALREADY.
4:26:28PM WE HAD A LOT OF CARRYOVER BILLS FROM 2022.
4:26:31PM SO WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY IN OUR BUDGET FOR THIS.
4:26:35PM AGAIN, WHAT YOU APPROVED WAS THE ABILITY FOR US TO HIRE
4:26:40PM THOSE ATTORNEYS QUICKLY WITHOUT HAVING TO BRING A CONTRACT
4:26:44PM BACK TO COUNCIL, BUT IT DIDN'T APPROVE THE FUNDING FOR ANY

4:26:48PM OF THOSE CONTRACTS.
4:26:53PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: OKAY.
4:26:54PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: HOW WILL THAT WORK THEN?
4:26:56PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: WELL, YOU HAVE THE FINANCE MAN MR. ROGERO
4:26:58PM RIGHT THERE.
4:26:59PM MR. ROGERO?
4:27:05PM MR. SHELBY ASKED A QUESTION.
4:27:06PM SO YOU ARE THE MONEY MAN.
4:27:15PM WHERE DOES THE ELECTION, AND IF WE HAD AN ELECTION TODAY,
4:27:17PM WHERE WOULD THAT MONEY COME FROM?
4:27:19PM HOW WERE ELECTIONS PAID BECAUSE THE CITY HAS TO PAY FOR
4:27:22PM ELECTIONS, CORRECT?
4:27:24PM >>DENNIS ROGERO: YES, SIR.
4:27:24PM WE HAVE AN ELECTION APPROPRIATION IN ANTICIPATION.
4:27:30PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: SO REFERENCE TO CHARTER, OR A BALLOT.
4:27:36PM BECAUSE IT WOULD BE DURING THE ELECTION CYCLE?
4:27:38PM >>DENNIS ROGERO: IF YOU ALLOW ME TO LOOK AND REPORT BACK.
4:27:42PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: MAYBE WE CAN DRAW SOME MONEY FROM THERE IF
4:27:46PM IT WOULD TAKE EXTRA.
4:27:47PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: HOW QUICKLY COULD YOU REPORT BACK?
4:27:52PM >>DENNIS ROGERO: VERY.
4:27:54PM >>LYNN HURTAK: SO THURSDAY?
4:27:56PM >>DENNIS ROGERO: YES.
4:27:57PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THE ATTORNEY AND
4:27:59PM MS. ZELMAN WITH REGARD TO THE LIST AND THE LIKE, THAT WOULD

4:28:01PM HAVE TO COME BACK THURSDAY, TOO, SO THAT WOULD BE TOMORROW?
4:28:06PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: THE MONEY MAN WILL KNOW WHAT IT WILL COST.
4:28:08PM >>ANDREA ZELMAN: IT WON'T TAKE US LONG TO BE GO THROUGH THE
4:28:13PM LIST AND JUST IDENTIFY WHICH OF THE LAW FIRMS THAT
4:28:15PM RESPONDED, INDICATED THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE GOT KIND OF
4:28:18PM EXPERIENCE.
4:28:18PM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HOLD THE
4:28:22PM FIRST HEARING ON DECEMBER 1st AT THE NIGHT MEETING AND
4:28:25PM THE SECOND HEARING ON DECEMBER 15th IN THE MORNING.
4:28:31PM BRING THE ORDINANCES, YEAH.
4:28:33PM >> CAN WE VOTE ON THAT?
4:28:40PM >>BILL CARLSON: CAN WE VOTE ON THAT, PLEASE?
4:28:42PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WHY DON'T WE --
4:28:44PM >> DECEMBER 1st AND 15th.
4:28:52PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WHAT'S THE DATE?
4:28:55PM >> THERE WAS A MOTION AND SECOND.
4:28:57PM ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
4:28:59PM >>LUIS VIERA: MY CONCERN WOULD BE DECEMBER 1st, IF WE
4:29:01PM HAVE LAND USE HEARINGS, THIS MAY TAKE A WHILE AND I DON'T
4:29:03PM WANT TO DO SEE SOMETHING WHERE WE START THESE HEARINGS AT 7
4:29:08PM OR 8.
4:29:09PM JUST MY THOUGHTS.
4:29:10PM >>LYNN HURTAK: I AGREE TO THAT, BUT ALSO ON SOMETHING LIKE
4:29:18PM THIS, THE EVENING, MORE PUBLIC IS AVAILABLE, AND THE THOUGHT
4:29:23PM BEING REALLY TO MAKE IT AS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS

4:29:29PM POSSIBLE.
4:29:30PM I DON'T THINK OUR CALENDAR HAS HOW MANY ITEMS ON THE EVENING
4:29:36PM AGENDA.
4:29:37PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WHAT DATE?
4:29:40PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: DECEMBER 1st.
4:29:41PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: DECEMBER 1st?
4:29:43PM >>LYNN HURTAK: DECEMBER 1st, ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED
4:29:47PM FOR FIRST -- YEAH.
4:29:52PM TEXT AMENDMENT AND A FEW OTHER THINGS.
4:29:54PM BUT I AM NOT SURE WHAT ELSE WE HAVE.
4:29:57PM THE CALENDAR ISN'T HERE.
4:29:59PM I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IS LISTENING TO WHO WORKS IN THAT
4:30:02PM DIVISION COULD HELP US OUT.
4:30:05PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WHAT TIME IS THAT?
4:30:08PM 5:00?
4:30:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK: MRS. TRAVIS, IS THAT YOU HIDING BEHIND THE
4:30:15PM BOARD?
4:30:16PM I CAN'T SEE YOU.
4:30:17PM DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE CALENDAR?
4:30:20PM >> [OFF MICROPHONE]
4:30:37PM >>ORLANDO GUDES: IT IS WHAT IT IS.
4:30:38PM >>LYNN HURTAK: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY AGENDA ITEMS ARE ON
4:30:41PM THAT FIRST MEETING?
4:30:43PM YOU YOURSELF MAY NOT KNOW BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE THE SUPER
4:30:45PM POWER TO SEND TO OTHERS.

4:30:48PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS: GIVE ME A MOMENT.
4:30:51PM >> IF WE COULD PUT THE FOUR ITEMS BACK ON THE SCREEN.
4:30:55PM YOU HAD ASKED TO SEE THOSE.
4:30:56PM HERE THEY ARE ON ONE PAGE.
4:31:06PM THESE ARE THE ONES THAT WERE PASSED.
4:31:08PM DOES EVERYBODY SEE THAT ALL RIGHT?
4:31:28PM MR. VIERA?
4:31:29PM >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
4:31:30PM IT MIGHT BE BEST TO COME DOWN DECEMBER 1st.
4:31:36PM MAYBE WE TASKED ENOUGH TO GIVE MR. SHELBY ALL THIS WORK BUT
4:31:40PM BETWEEN NOW, WE COME BACK ON THURSDAY, REPORT BACK TO US ON
4:31:44PM THURSDAY ON DATES AND I SAY IF WE HAVE TO DO DECEMBER
4:31:46PM 1st, I'M FINE WITH THAT BUT JUST TASKING MR. SHELBY
4:31:49PM LOOKING AT THE CALENDAR FOR POTENTIAL --
4:31:57PM >>> DECEMBER 1st.
4:31:59PM >>LUIS VIERA: AMONG OTHER OPTIONS.
4:32:01PM I JUST DON'T WANT TO --
4:32:03PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THE OTHER
4:32:05PM OPTIONS?
4:32:08PM AND YOU WANT TO SCHEDULE THIS THE FIRST IDEALLY, IN THE
4:32:13PM EVENING AS OPPOSED TO A DAYTIME?
4:32:15PM >>BILL CARLSON: HE'S SAYING HE WANTS YOU TO TELL US ON
4:32:17PM THURSDAY WHAT YOU THINK INSTEAD OF US DISCUSSING IT NOW, WE
4:32:20PM WILL HAVE YOU COME BACK ON THURSDAY SO I WILL WITHDRAW MY
4:32:23PM MOTION.

4:32:26PM >>LYNN HURTAK: MS. TRAVIS, WHERE ARE WE AT RIGHT NOW?
4:32:30PM >>BILL CARLSON: I WILL WITHDRAW MY MOTION.
4:32:32PM WE CAN CHANGE IT ON THURSDAY.
4:32:36PM LET'S PUT IT ON THE CALENDAR SO AT LEAST WE KNOW IT'S THERE.
4:32:40PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT, RIGHT?
4:32:44PM SET OUT THE TIMELINE FOR THE BALLOT PLACEMENT.
4:32:51PM THERE IS VERY LITTLE WIGGLE ROOM.
4:32:53PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: SO WHAT WAS YOUR DECISION?
4:33:00PM >>BILL CARLSON: WE HAVE TO WAIT.
4:33:01PM IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN MAKE TODAY?
4:33:17PM AND WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT STUDY ON
4:33:21PM THURSDAY WHICH ATTORNEY YOU AND MS. ZELMAN ARE GOING TO
4:33:24PM RECOMMEND, AND THEN WHAT DATE WE ARE GOING TO PICK.
4:33:28PM >> [OFF MICROPHONE]
4:33:44PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE ARE CLARIFYING NEXT STEPS ON THE
4:33:53PM SCREEN FOR A MOMENT, JUST SO WE CAN PUT A CLEAR WRAP ON OUR
4:33:59PM SESSION TODAY.
4:34:01PM SO WE HAVE SCHEDULED THE FIRST READING TO COUNCIL DECEMBER
4:34:04PM 1st IN THE EVENING, SCHEDULE THE SECOND READING AND
4:34:07PM ADOPTION BY THE COUNCIL ON DECEMBER -- ON THE MORNING OF
4:34:13PM DECEMBER 15th.
4:34:20PM IF THERE IS NO OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS TO MOVE FORWARD, WHAT
4:34:25PM ELSE DO YOU WANT TO DO HERE?
4:34:30PM >>BILL CARLSON: COME BACK ON THAT, AND THEN IF WE NEED TO
4:34:34PM CHANGE OUT THURSDAY, WE CAN DO THAT.

4:34:36PM CAN WE VOTE ON IT?
4:34:38PM SO THE MOTION THE FIRST HEARING WOULD BE ON DECEMBER 1st
4:34:40PM AT NIGHT AND A SECOND HEARING THE 15th IN THE MORNING
4:34:44PM SUBJECT TO CONFIRMATION BY EVERYBODY.
4:34:46PM >> SECOND.
4:34:50PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: MOTION AND VOTE.
4:34:52PM WE HAVE FOUR HANDS.
4:34:53PM WE HAVE ALL SEVEN.
4:34:56PM MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MR. MANISCALCO, MR. CITRO, MS.
4:34:59PM HURTAK, MR. GUDES, AND MR. MIRANDA.
4:35:03PM >>BILL CARLSON: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ASK CITY
4:35:07PM COUNCIL MEMBER -- I'M SORRY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY SHELBY
4:35:12PM AND CITY ATTORNEY ZELMAN TO REPORT TO US ON THURSDAY AS TO
4:35:19PM WHICH ATTORNEY THEY RECOMMEND THAT WE WORK WITH TO EDIT THE
4:35:25PM LANGUAGE.
4:35:27PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: GOOD CLARIFICATION.
4:35:28PM SECOND MS. HURTAK.
4:35:30PM ANY DISCUSSION?
4:35:32PM CALL FOR THE VOTE ON THAT, PLEASE.
4:35:34PM WE HAVE UNANIMOUS.
4:35:37PM MR. CARLSON, MR. VIERA, MR. MANISCALCO, MR. CITRO, MS.
4:35:41PM HURTAK, MR. GUDES, AND MR. MIRANDA.
4:35:44PM >>BILL CARLSON: ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO ACCOMPLISH TODAY?
4:35:52PM >>ANNE SCHROEDER: WE JUST HAVE THIS LAST QUESTION FOR YOU
4:35:55PM TO THINK ABOUT.

4:35:56PM AND IT SIMPLY READS, UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER
4:36:01PM RECOMMENDATIONS TO MOVE FORWARD, WHAT MIGHT YOU ASK OF US OR
4:36:06PM MR. SHELBY TO IMPROVE THE CHARTER INTERPRETATION ISSUES AND
4:36:10PM IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CHARTER?
4:36:13PM I JUST WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THAT, IF THERE'S ANYTHING
4:36:15PM ELSE FROM THIS SESSION THAT YOU WANTED TO TAKE FORWARD.
4:36:20PM THANK YOU.
4:36:25PM ANY COMMENTS?
4:36:26PM MR. SHELBY, YOU ARE YOUR HAND UP.
4:36:29PM >>BILL CARLSON: YOU ALL DID A GREAT JOB.
4:36:31PM THANK YOU.
4:36:31PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE. WHO GOT
4:36:35PM THAT PICTURE FOR YOU?
4:36:38PM VERY NICE.
4:36:39PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: EXCUSE ME, MADAM CLERK.
4:36:46PM NUMBER 4 ON THE AGENDA.
4:36:50PM WAIT A SECOND, NUMBER 4 ON THE AGENDA IS GOING TO BE MOVED
4:36:53PM TO THURSDAY?
4:36:56PM OR IS IT GOING TO BE REMOVED FROM THE AGENDA?
4:36:59PM OH, I SEE.
4:37:00PM OH, I SEE, THAT WAS.
4:37:01PM OH, I SEE.
4:37:02PM >> MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
4:37:04PM >> SECOND.
4:37:12PM >> WE HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT.

4:37:13PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS: I AM TRYING TO PRODUCE YOU MORE
4:37:16PM INFORMATION ON DECEMBER 1st, YOU HAVE 12 LAND USE
4:37:19PM HEARINGS, AND 2 COMP PLAN AMENDMENT.
4:37:21PM OFF TOTAL OF 14 ITEMS ON YOUR AGENDA.
4:37:26PM SO --
4:37:32PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: WAIT A SECOND.
4:37:34PM EXCUSE ME, IF I CAN.
4:37:35PM IF THERE ARE 14 ITEMS, WHAT IS COUNCIL'S DECISION WITH
4:37:38PM REGARD TO -- THAT'S THE EVENING OF THE 1st?
4:37:46PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS: WE CAN DO IT ANOTHER DAY.
4:37:47PM I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
4:37:49PM >>MARTIN SHELBY: OKAY.
4:37:50PM IS THERE A MOTION AND SECOND?
4:38:09PM (MEETING ADJOURNED)
4:38:14PM

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