TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2022
9:00 A.M.

DISCLAIMER:
THIS FILE REPRESENTS AN UNEDITED VERSION OF REALTIME
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ANY PERSON WHO NEEDS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE
PROCEEDINGS MAY NEED TO HIRE A COURT REPORTER.

9:05:59AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NOVEMBER 17th, 2022, IS NOW IN SESSION.
THE PERSON WHO WAS GOING TO BE GIVING INVOCATION, THEY
CALLED AND TOLD US THEY COULD NOT MAKE IT.
IF WE COULD PLEASE STAND FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
[MOMENT OF SILENCE]
THANK YOU.
WOULD YOU PLEASE JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE?
[PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]
THANK YOU.
PLEASE BE SEATED.
ROLL CALL.
9:06:55AM >> CARLSON?
VIERA?
MANISCALCO?
9:06:58AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
HERE.
9:06:59AM >> HURTAK?
GUDES?

9:07:01AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HERE.
9:07:02AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HERE.
9:07:02AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE.
9:07:03AM >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
9:07:04AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
LET'S GO WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.
9:07:13AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
MAY I JUST VERY QUICKLY DISCUSS WAIVING THE RULES FOR
ALLOWING CMT?
9:07:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU ARE CORRECT.
9:07:21AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL, MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC.
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
TODAY'S MEETING OF NOVEMBER 17th, 2022, IS HERE AT OLD
CITY HALL.
IT'S AVAILABLE TO BE SEEN ON CABLE TV, SPECTRUM CHANNEL 640,
FRONTIER CHANNEL 15 AND ON THE INTERNET AT
TAMPA.GOV/LIVESTREAM.
A REMINDER FOR THE USE OF CMT, PREREGISTRATION IS REQUIRED.
THERE ARE CERTAIN TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS AND THOSE ARE
AVAILABLE ON THE CITY COUNCIL'S WEB PAGE, THE LINKS TO THOSE
INSTRUCTIONS.
WITH THAT BEING SAID, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D ASK THAT COUNCIL
WAIVE THE RULES TO ALLOW THE CONTINUED USE OF CMT.
9:07:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.

SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
9:08:01AM >> AYE.
9:08:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
ALL RIGHT, NOW WE WILL GO THROUGH THE APPROVAL OF THE
AGENDA.
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, NUMBER ONE.
9:08:08AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES, SIR.
WE'RE GOING TO PULL THIS ONE.
[INAUDIBLE]
9:08:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
ANY OPPOSED?
THANK YOU.
NOW, I DO NOT BELIEVE CHIEF BENNETT IS GOING TO BE HERE
TODAY.
THERE WAS AN ASK TO PULL AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 35 BY STAFF TO
BE DISCUSSED.
CAN WE DO THAT AT NUMBER --
9:09:02AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
ADRIANA COLINA, DIRECTOR OF LOGISTICS AND ASSET MANAGEMENT.
I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR FLEXIBILITY AND WILLINGNESS
TO MOVE THIS ITEM UP FROM THE AGENDA, FROM THE CONSENT
AGENDA TO STAFF REPORTS.

WE REALIZE IT IS A MUNDANE ITEM AND SOMETHING VERY ROUTINE,
BUT I WANTED TO COME BEFORE YOU JUST TO, AGAIN, AS I SHARED
DURING OUR BRIEFINGS, LET YOU KNOW WHAT THIS TRANSACTION IS
ASKING FOR.
IT IS SIMPLY AMENDING AN EXISTING AGREEMENT TO ALLOW FOR
EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS COUNCIL HAS ALREADY APPROVED.
9:09:37AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AT THIS POINT, WE'RE JUST GOING THROUGH THE
AGENDA RIGHT NOW.
I'M JUST ASKING COUNCIL IF WE DON'T MIND MOVING THIS TO
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2.
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
THANK YOU.
COUPLE MORE SECONDS.
9:09:54AM >> NO PROBLEM.
I'LL STEP OFF TO THE SIDE.
9:10:02AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I BELIEVE AGENDA ITEM 5 HAS BEEN ASKED TO BE
CONTINUED FOR 30 DAYS.
I BELIEVE DECEMBER 15.
9:10:06AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO MOVED.
9:10:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
COUNCILMAN GUDES IS THAT ALL RIGHT WITH YOU?
I HAVE A MEMORANDUM FROM MS. SHERISHA HILLS.

9:10:19AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WHAT DATE?
9:10:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
DECEMBER 15.
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
9:10:27AM >> AYE.
9:10:28AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I?
9:10:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
COUNCIL SHELBY.
9:10:33AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.
ITEMS 3 AND 4 WITH REGARD TO MEMORANDUMS ON THAT, DID YOU
WANT STAFF PRESENT OR IS THAT NOT NECESSARY?
9:10:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I BELIEVE STAFF WILL BE AVAILABLE VIRTUALLY
IF NECESSARY.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:10:51AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I THINK THERE IS A REPORT ON ITEM NUMBER 3
TODAY, BUT IF I COULD MAKE A QUICK MOTION.
THE SOG PEOPLE HAVE ASKED US TO REMOVE THIS FROM THE AGENDA
GOING FORWARD.
CAN I MAKE THAT MOTION NOW?
9:11:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU ASKING FOR IT TO BE REMOVED?
9:11:08AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
NOT NOW.
9:11:10AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M WANTING TO MAKE SURE STAFF IS HERE TO
GIVE THEIR COMMENTS BEFORE I MAKE --

9:11:15AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SORRY.
I DON'T WANT TO MOVE NUMBER 3.
JUST GOING FORWARD THEY WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE IT.
9:11:20AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
[INAUDIBLE]
9:11:25AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
OKAY.
MR. SHELBY, ANYTHING FURTHER?
9:11:28AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO, SIR.
THANK YOU.
9:11:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT 8 AFTER WE OPEN.
9:11:35AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I WOULD LIKE TO BRIEFLY DISCUSS ITEM 8 AND
THEN ASK FOR A BRIEF CONTINUANCE TO DECEMBER 1.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT WHEN IT COMES UP.
9:11:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALSO BE DISCUSSING NUMBER 9.
9:11:47AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
[INAUDIBLE]
9:11:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AND THE MEMORANDUM.
9:11:56AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
[INAUDIBLE]
9:11:57AM >>THE CLERK:
[INAUDIBLE]
9:12:07AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MAKE A MOTION TO RESCHEDULE THE ITEM THAT
WAS HANDED TO ME FOR THE WORKSHOP.
MIRANDA, CARLSON, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL BE -- DRAFT
COMMUNITY BENEFIT AGREEMENT ORDINANCE BE BROUGHT BACK.
WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT FROM TODAY.
YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE?
9:12:24AM >>THE CLERK:
[INAUDIBLE]
9:12:27AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
LEAVE IT THEN FOR THE DATE, DECEMBER

1st, YOU SAID?
DECEMBER 1st, UNDER STAFF REPORTS.
9:12:35AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.
9:12:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
9:12:41AM >> AYE.
9:12:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NOW WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA
AND THE ADDENDUM BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
9:12:51AM >> AYE.
9:12:51AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
EXCELLENT.
LET'S GO TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2, WHICH IS ACTUALLY AGENDA
ITEM -- I APOLOGIZE.
NOW WE WILL GO FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
IF ANYBODY IS GOING TO BE GIVING A PUBLIC COMMENT, CAN YOU
PLEASE APPROACH THE PODIUM?
IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND FORMING A LINE.
9:13:19AM >> UHURU.
IT MEANS FREEDOM IN SWAHILI.
METESNOT.
THE NAME MEANS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
WHAT I'M HERE TODAY TO SAY IS, FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE HAVE
TO KNOW IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE AS AFRICAN PEOPLE GET SOME

TYPE OF RESOLUTION AND REPARATIONS IN OUR LIFETIME.
THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
WE CANNOT KEEP GOING GENERATION AFTER GENERATION WITH ONLY
KNOWING AND EXPERIENCING INSULTS, HUMILIATION, OPPRESSION,
AND SLAVERY IN A DIFFERENT FORM.
BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS CITY AND OTHER CITIES HAVE TO WAKE UP
TO OUR REALITY AND OUR REALITY IS REPARATIONS, NOTHING MORE,
NOTHING LESS.
REPARATIONS, WHAT WE'RE OWED.
BY NO MEANS SHALL WE ALLOW ANYONE TO GET AWAY WITH 400 YEARS
OF BRUTAL OPPRESSION AND SUBJUGATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE.
WE HAVE TO STOP ALLOWING THESE PEOPLE TO EVOLVE THEIR
METHODS OF OPPRESSION IN A MANNER WHERE IT IS DIFFICULT TO
UNDERSTAND OR COMPREHEND WHITE PEOPLE HAVE A SUBTLE WAY OF
INSULTING OUR INTELLIGENCE AND EXPECTING US TO ACCEPT THAT
AS FACTS.
A BILLION-DOLLAR BUDGET AND BLACK PEOPLE DOWN HERE BEGGING
FOR MONEY FOR JUNETEENTH.
IT'S AN INSULT TO OUR INTELLIGENCE.
A CITY THAT'S MOVING FORWARD BUT LEAVING ALL THE BLACK
PEOPLE IN THE BACKGROUND AND DOING GENTRIFICATION IN A WAY
WHERE WE ARE BEING PUSHED OUT OF THE CITY THROUGH CODE
ENFORCEMENT, LAW ENFORCEMENT, OTHER FORMS OF ENFORCEMENT
THAT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE BECAUSE THEY ARE DEALING WITH US
ONE BY ONE OR SIDE OF TOWN BY SIDE OF TOWN.

THIS HAS TO STOP.
WE AFRICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO HOLD THE PEOPLE THERE NOT JUST
ORLANDO GUDES.
WE HAVE TO HOLD ALL CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVES RESPONSIBLE
FOR THE TREATMENT WE AS AFRICAN PEOPLE RECEIVE IN THIS CITY.
WE'VE GOT NO JUSTICE.
NONE WHATSOEVER.
AND THAT HAVE TO CHANGE.
PEOPLE JUST CAN'T GET OFF THE HOOK AND THINK IT'S COOL.
PEOPLE CAN'T SEE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS KEEP GOING DOWN, KEEP
COMING BACK FOR ONE INITIATIVE AFTER THE OTHER AROUND
ELECTION TIME AND THEN THEY MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.
AND PEOPLE CAN'T KEEP DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING LIKE TRYING
TO PUT JANET CRUZ ON THE CITY RIGHT NOW.
STUFF LIKE THAT HAVE TO STOP.
THIS CITY HAVE TO ADVANCE IN A WAY WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE
AND ENJOY THE GROWTH OF IT.
9:16:28AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
NEXT.
9:16:47AM >> GOOD MORNING.
THANK GOD FOR THE BLESSED OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE ONCE AGAIN
SPEAKING ON YOUR BEHALF AND SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF.
YOU KNOW I'M JUST GRATEFUL THAT I GOT HERE TODAY BECAUSE SO
MUCH IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD.
BASICALLY AGAINST BLACK FOLKS.

AND WE ARE HAVING PROBLEMS BIG TIME.
NOW, THE WHITE FOLKS THAT GET ON THE CITY COUNCIL BOARD,
LETTING THE MAYOR AND EVERYBODY ELSE PUSH THE BLACK FOLKS
OUT OF THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
BUT YOU ALL CAN SIT BACK AND LAY BACK AND LET IT HAPPEN TO
US, BASICALLY BECAUSE YOU ALL DON'T LIVE IN OUR
NEIGHBORHOOD.
WHEN I WAS COMING OVER HERE, I WANTED TO TELL YOU ALL TO
GIVE US OUR NEIGHBORHOOD BACK.
22nd STREET AND CHELSEA, WHAT YOU ALL CALL RETENTION HOLE.
WHAT IS IT RETAINING?
NOTHING.
NOT A DAMN THING.
IT'S SO SAD THE WAY YOU TREAT US AS BLACK CITIZENS.
WE NEED TO GET TO SOMEBODY, WITH SOMEBODY TO UNDERSTAND THAT
WE JUST WANT RIGHTEOUSNESS.
WE AIN'T ASKING YOU ALL FOR NOTHING ELSE.
GIVE US OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TREAT US LIKE CITIZENS OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
AND WE'LL BE PLEASED.
WHEN I CAME DOWN HERE ONE TIME TO YOUR-ALL MEETING, THE
MAYOR AND ALL THE POLICEMEN WERE IN HERE.
I COULDN'T COME IN HERE AND SIT DOWN.

THE POLICE BLOCKED THE DOOR.
I HAD TO SIT OUT THERE ON THE STEPS.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
IF DON'T WANT US TO COME HERE TO CITY HALL, THEN GIVE US OUR
LAND BACK IN BELMONT HEIGHTS AND JACKSON HEIGHTS AND WE'LL
BE OUR OWN CITY HALL.
WE'LL BE GLAD TO BUILD IT.
BUT THE WAY YOU ALL MISTREATING US, JUST DEVASTATING.
AND WE DON'T DESERVE IT.
OUR ANCESTORS THAT CAME HERE FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
WORLD, THEY BUILT UP THIS COUNTRY.
HELPED BUILT UP THIS COUNTRY AND DID A GOOD JOB OF BUILDING
IT UP.
BUT NOW MOST OF THEM DEAD AND GONE ON HOME.
I GOT TO COME HERE WITH MY CRIPPLED SELF AND TRY TO SPEAK UP
FOR JUSTICE.
YOU-ALL DON'T HEAR ME.
YOU ALL GIVE LESS THAN A DAMN ABOUT REVEREND, HE TOLD
WALKING WITH HIS CANE, WALKING WITH HIS CRUTCHES.
HE AIN'T GOING TO BE AROUND MUCH LONGER.
YOU WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING?
MAYBE I'M NOT GOING TO BE AROUND MUCH LONGER, BUT I TELL GOD
THANK YOU, THAT WHEN I LEAVE HERE I'M GOING HOME TO BE WITH
JESUS.
GOD BLESS ALL OF MY --

9:20:05AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
PASTOR, GOOD MORNING.
IF YOU CAN, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME, FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU
DON'T MIND, PASTOR. IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE
RECORD.
9:20:13AM >> I THOUGHT I DID.
MAYBE I FORGOT.
PASTOR WILLIAM, FRANK WILLIAM.
EAST SCOTT STREET.
TAMPA, FLORIDA, 33603 -- 02, RATHER.
9:20:35AM >> GOOD MORNING.
ALISON HEWITT, 4904 32nd STREET, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
TWO ITEMS I'D LIKE TO HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT.
ONE ITEM, 53.
IT'S CRA, SLASH, CITY COUNCIL ITEM, JUST AS YOU ARE
MONITORING THE BUDGET, YOU WILL ALSO SEE THAT WE DID SUPPORT
INCREASING THE STAFF IN THE EAST TAMPA CRA, AND I WOULD LIKE
TO ASK YOU TO MONITOR OUR ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO SEE IF
THAT WAS STILL A MART EXPENDITURE OR IF THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL
OUTPUT FROM THE EAST TAMPA CRA STAFF.
THE SECOND THING I'D LIKE TO ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT ON IS ITEM
NUMBER 73, THE EAST TAMPA OVERLAY DISTRICT.
WITH YOUR APPROVAL OF THE PREDEVELOPMENT PROGRAM, THERE WILL
BE SOME SIGNIFICANT PROJECTS BROUGHT FORWARD FOR YOUR
CONSIDERATION.

AND TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL PROMINENCE OF EAST
TAMPA AND LOOK OF EAST TAMPA, THIS OVERLAY DISTRICT WILL
ALSO BE IMPORTANT AS THOSE DEVELOPMENTS COME FORWARD FOR
YOUR CONSIDERATION AND APPROVAL.
SO THE COMMUNITY HAS WORKED VERY HARD ON THIS, IN
CONJUNCTION WITH STAFF, WE REALLY WANT TO SAY THAT WE
APPRECIATE STAFF WERE GIVING US WHAT WAS IN THE LONG-RANGE
PLAN AND BE ABLE TO HELP PUT RECOMMENDATIONS THAT MAINTAIN
THE LOOK AND FEEL AND HISTORY OF EAST TAMPA.
SO I DO ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT ON ITEM NUMBER 73, THE OVERLAY
DISTRICT FOR THE EAST TAMPA CRA.
THANK YOU.
9:22:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED.
9:22:18AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
73, THAT IS A --
9:22:26AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
COUNCIL, THAT'S SCHEDULED FOR 1:30.
9:22:30AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
OKAY.
SOMETHING JUST CAUGHT MY EYE WHEN I LOOKED AT THE WHOLE
PIECE ON THAT.
I PROBABLY WILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.
I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT BEFORE.
9:22:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC?
WISHING TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT?
ANYONE ELSE IN CHAMBERS WISHING MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT?
I BELIEVE WE HAVE TWO ONLINE.

MS. POYNOR, ARE YOU THERE?
MS. POYNOR?
LET'S TRY MS. STROHMEYER.
MS. STROHMEYER, ARE YOU THERE?
9:23:10AM >> HELLO.
THIS IS JEAN.
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
9:23:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, MS. STROHMEYER.
HOW ARE YOU DOING?
9:23:16AM >> I'M FINE, THANK YOU.
HOW ARE YOU ALL TODAY.
9:23:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
FINE.
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
9:23:21AM >> FOR THE RECORD, JEAN STROHMEYER.
I LIVE INTERBAY SOUTH OF GANDY FOR 30 YEARS.
JUST GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE AGENDA SO YOU ALL HAVE FOOD
FOR THOUGHT WHEN VOTING ON THESE ITEMS.
ITEM NUMBER 3, THE SOG UPDATE.
WE'VE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB AND I THANK THE STAFF FOR THAT.
NUMBER 4, VOLUNTEER CORP.
I'M LOOKING AT MY NOTES.
VOLUNTEER CORP, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S THAT IS ABOUT.
IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE STARTING MORE LITTLE ADMINISTRATIONS
WITHIN OUR ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.
TELL ME WHAT THAT'S ABOUT.

NUMBER 8, YOUR-ALL'S TAMPA CITY COUNCIL IMMUNITY I LIKE THAT
IDEA BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED TO COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.
HOWEVER WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES WITH GIVING LAWYERS AND, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY
IS JUST OUT AND OUT DOES SOMETHING FRAUDULENT OR BAD, THEN
WE CAN'T REPRESENT THEM.
I JUST WANTED TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
NUMBER 9, LIMIT WORKSHOP ITEMS.
NOT SURE WHY WE NEED TO DO THAT.
I KNOW THINGS RUN OVER, BUT WE NEED TO MAYBE RUN THE
MEETINGS QUICKER.
SPEEDING, NUMBER 10 AND 11, AGGRESSIVE DRIVING GRANT.
TPD GRANTS.
THERE'S MILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WE SPEND ON
TPD AND ALL THAT.
AND WE KEEP GETTING ALL THESE GRANTS AND HERE IS 13 AND 12,
LAST CALL GRANT.
14 AND 19, $3 MILLION.
ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS GIVING US ALL
KINDS OF MONEY.
IT'S A LOT OF MONEY.
20 AND 21, OPIOID, ANTIDRUG SITE.
LOOK, THE OPIOID PROBLEM IS COMING FROM OUR SOUTHERN BORDER
AND THE APPROVAL OF ALL THESE DRUG CLINICS THAT ARE ALL
OVER.

THEY ARE POPPING UP EVERYWHERE.
IT'S CASH ONLY DRUG BUSINESSES JUST LIKE WHEN WE HAD THE
CRISIS BACK IN THE '90s AND PEOPLE WERE OVERDOSING.
I JUST HAD AN OVERDOSE IN MY FAMILY AND I REALLY NEED TO,
YOU ALL LOOK INTO THAT.
NUMBER 22, GUN INTELLIGENCE.
THAT'S SOME NEW YORK CRAP FROM YOUR NEW YORK BLOOMBERG GUY
THAT'S RUNNING OUR CITY.
WE DON'T APPRECIATE THAT.
LAW-ABIDING GUN CITIZENS AND GUN HOLDERS DO NOT NEED ANY
MORE GUN INTELLIGENCE.
WE HAVE NUMBER 23, $500,000 FOR THE PARKS.
LORD HAVE MERCY.
MY PARK IN INTERBAY SOUTH OF GANDY IS A DISASTER.
IT'S JUST HORRIBLE, BUT WE DON'T GET ANY OF THAT MONEY.
WE COULD USE SPLASH PAD.
THEY WANT CERTAIN THINGS IN OUR PARK, EVEN A NICE PLAYGROUND
WE DON'T HAVE IN OUR PARK.
IT'S JUST LIKE A TERRIBLE PARK.
THE REST OF THE PARK IS GREAT BUT NOT FOR THE KIDS.
NUMBER 40, COMMUNITY GARDENS.
I LOVE THAT.
WE NEED TO GET COMMUNITY GARDENS RUNNING UP AND YESTERDAY.
FOOD SHORTAGE BECAUSE OF THE ADMINISTRATION THAT'S GOING ON
IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND IT'S TRICKLING DOWN TO US.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FOOD SHORTAGES.
WE NEED TO HAVE OUR OWN GARDENS.
I MAINTAIN A GARDEN EVERY YEAR.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO HELP WITH THAT.
58, AIDS, AIDS, AIDS.
LOT OF MONEY COMING IN FOR AIDS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT AIDS WAS OVER.
WE KNOW WHAT CAUSES AIDS.
9:26:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. STROHMEYER.
9:26:49AM >> THANK YOU.
9:26:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. POYNOR, ARE YOU THERE?
IS MS. POYNOR LOGGED ON?
9:27:03AM >>THE CLERK:
SHE IS.
STEPHANIE POYNOR, IF YOU CAN HEAR US, PLEASE UNMUTE
YOURSELF.
9:27:14AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. POYNOR?
GOING ONCE ...
MS. POYNOR, ARE YOU UNMUTED?
9:27:31AM >>THE CLERK:
SHE WAS.
HOLD ON.
9:27:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S PROCEED.
NOW WE'LL GO TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2, WHICH IS ACTUALLY
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 35 THAT HAS BEEN PULLED.
9:27:55AM >> TAKE TWO.
MY APOLOGIES FOR PREMATURELY APPROACHING THE PODIUM.

I'VE NEVER BEEN FIRST ON THE AGENDA AND WITHOUT THE CHIEF OF
STAFF AND I WANTED TO BE RESPECTFUL OF YOUR TIME.
ADRIANA COLINA, DIRECTOR OF LOGISTICS AND ASSET MANAGEMENT.
WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN ITEM 35 IS AN AMENDMENT TO AN
EXISTING AGREEMENT WITHIN OUR FLEET DIVISION.
AND IT IS TO ALLOW EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS ALREADY APPROVED BY
CITY COUNCIL TO OUR CONTRACTOR.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR.
WE REALIZE IT'S ROUTINE, BUT I DID WANT TO COME BEFORE YOU
BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IT'S UNDER THE $3 MILLION THRESHOLD, I
WANTED TO JUST REASSURE YOU WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR MORE FUNDS.
WE'RE SIMPLY ASKING TO ALIGN THE CONTRACT TO ALLOW FOR THE
EXPENDITURE OF THE FUNDS AND MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE FOR ANY
QUESTIONS.
9:28:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS?
COUNCILMAN GUDES?
9:28:46AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THIS IS FOR THE PARKS?
9:28:49AM >>ADRIANA COLINA:
YES, SIR.
9:28:55AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE HAD A CONVERSATION TWO YEARS AGO ABOUT
THAT, ABOUT THOSE PARKS, I BELIEVE.
AND THIS IS AN UPDATE OF THE CONTRACT, CORRECT?
9:29:03AM >>ADRIANA COLINA:
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THIS
TRANSACTION.
THIS CONTRACT IS A 2014 CONTRACT.
THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT WERE FIVE YEARS WITH FIVE

ADDITIONAL ONE-YEAR RENEWALS.
THE CONTRACT RUNS FROM DECEMBER TO DECEMBER.
SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE SIMPLY ASKING FOR EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS.
WE WILL BE BACK BEFORE YOU IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO ASK FOR
THE SECOND TO THE LAST EXTENSION TO THAT CONTRACT.
9:29:29AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU.
9:29:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:29:32AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I JUST WANT TO ASK COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, DO I
REMEMBER CORRECTLY?
IS THIS THE ONE YOU HAD A PROBLEM WITH BEFORE OR NOT?
9:29:39AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
IT'S JUST AN UNDERSTANDING THAT COMING
FROM WHERE I COME FROM, I GUESS, IF YOU'RE BUYING A PRODUCT,
WHETHER IT'S A PEN OR NOT, AND THEN SOMEBODY SAYS I CAN DO A
BETTER JOB, BUT THEY ARE GETTING ALL THE INFORMATION BUT NOT
ONLY THEM, THERE ARE A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT BY PUBLIC
RECORDS YOU ASK WHO ARE YOUR VENDORS AND YOU HAVE TO GIVE
THEM ALL YOUR VENDORS, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
AND THAT'S WHAT, PART OF THAT LAW ABOUT GIVING INFORMATION
TO THE PUBLIC IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY GOOD, BUT SOMEHOW
SOMETIMES YOU PAY CONSEQUENCES.
AND THOSE CONSEQUENCES -- I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS A
CONSEQUENCE IN THIS CASE -- THEY GET YOUR VENDORS AND THEN
THEY SAY THEY CAN DO A BETTER JOB.
THEN I SAY, YOU MEAN, WE'VE BEEN DOING NOT SO GOOD OF A JOB?

WHICH IS NOT A FACT.
IT LEAVES YOU WITH THAT TYPE OF DOUBT.
MANCON HAS BEEN IN BUSINESS THREE, FOUR YEARS.
9:30:39AM >>ADRIANA COLINA:
WITH US?
EIGHT YEARS.
9:30:42AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
TIME FLIES.
SO EIGHT YEARS, AND MAYBE AFTER THIS DEAL IF IT GOES
THROUGH, WE CAN ASK FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO GIVE US AN ANALOGY
OF WHAT THE COSTS REAL ARE.
IN OTHER WORDS, THEY HAVE THEIR EMPLOYEES.
WE WOULD HAVE OUR EMPLOYEES.
ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCE?
I WOULD IMAGINE FROM COMING SOMETIME IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR
THEY WOULD SAY, YES, WE DO A BETTER JOB, BUT THEN IN
TRANSFORMING IT INTO REALITY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU'RE GETTING THE SAME EMPLOYEES AT THE
SAME PAY AT THE SAME BENEFITS?
I DON'T REALLY KNOW.
SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ASK, I
BELIEVE.
9:31:21AM >>BILL CARLSON:
CAN I JUST ASK, YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EXPERTISE IN DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.
THIS IS ONE THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY STUDIED MAYBE MORE THAN THE
REST OF US, AND YOU BROUGHT IT UP OVER THE YEARS.
DO YOU SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION?

9:31:34AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M GOING TO SUPPORT IT SO IT GOES TO THE
LAST YEAR.
BECAUSE NOW IT WOULD BE CHAOTIC IF WE CHANGED SOMETHING.
JUST MY OPINION.
MAY BE WRONG.
IF THEY LEAVE TODAY AND TOMORROW DO WE SAVE THE SAME
EMPLOYEES?
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONTRACT SAYS.
9:31:50AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THEY COME BACK FOR RENEWAL IN DECEMBER.
9:31:52AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I THINK WE HAVE TO QUESTION IN DECEMBER,
THAT'S MY OPINION.
I'M NOT TRYING TO SWAY ANYBODY'S MIND.
GIVE ME THE LIST OF ALL THE EMPLOYEES.
TELL ME WHAT THEY ARE PAID, TELL ME WHAT BENEFITS THEY HAVE
COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAVE.
9:32:04AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IF YOU MAKE A MOTION LATER TO ASK FOR THAT
INFORMATION IN ADVANCE, I'LL BE HAPPY TO SECOND THAT.
9:32:09AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I WILL MAKE THAT LATER ON.
9:32:11AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
9:32:11AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I REMEMBER MANY, MANY DECADES AGO WE USED
TO RUN THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.
WE USES IT RUN ALL OF THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHANGED BECAUSE I KNOW SOMETIMES THEY SAY
WE DON'T HAVE THE PARKS NOW OR SOME DIFFICULTIES.
I KNOW, WHEN WE RAN IT, IT WAS MORE EFFICIENT.

I KNOW TIMES CHANGE, WE USED TO CALL IT SUB 4.
A LOT OF OLDER PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT.
MAY BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT, MS. COLINA, JUST TO MAKE SURE,
YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE CHANGING, PRICES ARE GOING UP.
WHAT IS THE COST VARIABLE VERSUS US VERSUS THEM.
9:32:51AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MAYBE WE SHOULD ASK THEM, GIVE ME A LIST
OF ALL YOUR VENDORS AND WHAT YOU'RE PAYING.
I DON'T KNOW.
WE HAVE TO COME TO A CONSENSUS.
THE ONLY WAY WE FIND OUT IS GIVE ME A LIST OF ALL YOUR
VENDORS.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE PRODUCT EVEN THOUGH
THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE BUYING IT AND SENDING IT TO US AT
THE SAME PRICE.
I HAVE TO BELIEVE IT BUT IT SWALLOWS MY THROAT SOMETIMES
RASP WHEN I HAVE TO SWALLOW IRON INSTEAD OF FILET MIGNON.
BUT THAT'S HOW IT IS.
9:33:21AM >>ADRIANA COLINA:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND FOR YOUR
QUESTIONS.
I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT AS I'VE BEEN IN THIS SEAT, WE VISITED
A COUPLE OF OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
WE VISITED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND OTHERS, JUST COMPARING
AND SEEING HOW ARE WE DOING COMPARED TO OTHERS AND WHAT IS
THAT BEST PRACTICE.
I CAN ASSURE YOU WITH THE CLIMATE WE'RE IN WITH THE

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY AND THE SUPPLY SHORTAGE ISSUE, THIS
CONTRACT WITH MANCON, WHICH THEY CHARGE US NO MARKUP ON THE
PARTS, HAS REALLY PLACED US IN A GOOD POSITION BECAUSE THE
LAST PLACE ANY ONE OF US WOULD EVER WANT TO BE IN, IS IF
SOMEONE WERE TO CALL FOR POLICE OR FIRE TO SHOW UP, SORRY,
WE COULDN'T COME BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GET A SPARK PLUG.
THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.
THE BUYING POWER OF MANCON, WHICH IS A NATIONWIDE CONTRACT,
AND THEY ACTUALLY SERVICE OUR MILITARY AS WELL, HAS REALLY
BEEN TO OUR ADVANTAGE, ESPECIALLY NOW.
ABSOLUTELY MOVING FORWARD IN 2024, WHEN WE PUT THIS OUT FOR
BID, DEFINITELY ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE BEST OPTION AND THE
BEST SERVICE TO OUR CITIZENS.
9:34:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, BECAUSE THIS IS PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE
AND COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK IS OUT OF TOWN, WOULD YOU PREFER TO
SAVE THIS UNTIL YOU MAKE THE MOTIONS FOR PUBLIC WORKS?
9:34:39AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SURE.
WHATEVER YOU GUYS WANT.
9:34:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
9:34:44AM >>ADRIANA COLINA:
THANK YOU ALL.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
9:34:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, YOU TOO.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3.
IS STAFF HERE FOR THAT?

MS. TRAVIS.
9:34:57AM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
NICOLE TRAVIS, ADMINISTRATOR OF DEVELOPMENT AND ECONOMIC
OPPORTUNITY.
STEPHEN BENSON SUBMITTED A REPORT ON THESE ITEMS.
THESE ITEMS HAVE BEEN A LONG LIST THAT'S BEEN CIRCULATING
FOR SOME TIME AND THE MEMO STATES THAT ALL OF THE ITEMS ARE
BEING WORKED ON WITH THE DIFFERENT STUDIES THAT WE HAVE.
I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, AND WE APPRECIATE WORKING WITH
THE COMMUNITY AND THE FEEDBACK WE GOT FROM MS. POYNOR IN HER
CORRESPONDENCE.
9:35:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, THIS IS YOUR MOTION.
9:35:28AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
HERE'S AN E-MAIL THAT NICOLE AND I RECEIVED FROM STEPHANIE
POYNOR.
I'LL PASS IT DOWN AND IF YOU ALL COULD GIVE IT TO THE CLERK
FOR THE FILE.
WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT AFTER DISCUSSION WITH THE SOG
LEADERSHIP, WE HAVE DECIDED THAT WE WOULD LIKE COUNCIL
MEMBER CARLSON TO RELEASE STAFF FROM THE EXPECTATION OF
REPORTING BACK ON THIS ISSUE.
9:35:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE REPORT?
9:35:54AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE THE
NOVEMBER 2022 QUARTERLY STAFF REPORT ON THE ITEMS OF CONCERN

TO THE SOUTH OF GANDY NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERS AND ACCEPT THIS
AS THE FINAL REPORT ON THIS ITEM WITH NO FURTHER REPORTING
REQUIRED.
9:36:10AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON HAS MADE A MOTION.
IS THERE A SECOND?
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
IS THERE ANY OBJECTIONS?
9:36:22AM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
THANK YOU.
AND HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
9:36:23AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 4, MS. WYNN.
9:36:36AM >>OCEA WYNN:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
OCEA WYNN, ADMINISTRATOR OF NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY
AFFAIRS.
I WAS ASKED TO COME BEFORE YOU WITH AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 4 TO
REPORT ON THE VOLUNTEER CORP FOR ASSISTING WITH EMERGENCY
EVENTS SUCH AS THE SANDBAGS, AS WELL AS TO REPORT ON
PET-FRIENDLY SHELTERS.
I SUBMITTED A MEMO AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT
YOU MAY HAVE.
9:37:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR ANY QUESTIONS?
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
9:37:09AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU
ALL DID AND THE WAY YOU HANDLED IT WAS ACCEPTABLE.

HOWEVER, THERE'S GOT TO BE MORE DISTRIBUTION BECAUSE THE
LINES ARE GETTING SO LONG, THE ONE ON MacDILL, WHEN YOU
WENT LINED UP TO GET TO THE SANDBAGS, IT WAS ALL THE WAY
FROM THE PARK ALL THE WAY AROUND PAST TO SPRUCE ALL THE WAY
WEST TO HALFWAY TO HIMES ALMOST, NOT HIMES, BUT LINCOLN, I'M
SORRY.
AND THERE WAS A LOT OF TRAFFIC PROBLEMS.
I'M NOT CASTING STONES.
I THINK YOU HAD TO DO IT AS AN EMERGENCY THING BECAUSE IT
WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE AND THEN IT SHOWED UP.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENING.
WE HAVE TO HAVE INSTEAD OF ONE OR TWO, WE HAVE TO HAVE FIVE
OR SIX.
I THINK DISTRIBUTION THAT WAY DOESN'T CLOG UP THE STREETS
BECAUSE COULD AVOID SOME ACCIDENTS.
THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.
9:38:01AM >>OCEA WYNN:
YES.
9:38:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES AND THEN I'LL COME BACK TO
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:38:07AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE MACHINES.
HAVE WE LOOKED INTO THOSE MACHINES?
9:38:12AM >>OCEA WYNN:
YES, SIR.
I WAS GOING TO MAKE THAT COMMENT.
SO, YES, WE HAVE LOOKED INTO SANDBAG MACHINES.
IF I MAY, TRYING TO GET TO WHY THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED, I

WAS UNPREPARED TO TALK ABOUT TWO THINGS.
ONE, COUNCIL MIRANDA, IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CAN WE DO
WITH THE VOLUNTEERS AND HOW WE CAN BEST USE THEM.
THE ISSUE OF A PROBLEM -- ONE OF THE PROBLEMS I THINK WE'RE
TRYING TO SOLVE IS JUST HOW DO WE RELIEVE THOSE PRESSURE
POINTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? AND THE SOLUTION TO THAT IS TO
IDENTIFY OTHER AREAS WHERE WE CAN SET UP SANDBAG LOCATIONS.
WE HAVE ALREADY STARTED IDENTIFYING THOSE AREAS.
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE THE INGRESS AND EGRESS SO THAT
WE WON'T SET UP AN AREA AND THEN WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM IN
ANOTHER AREA BECAUSE IT HAS NOT BEEN THOUGHT OUT.
SO WE ARE, IN FACT, WORKING ON THAT.
COUNCILMAN GUDES, IN TERMS OF THE SANDBAG MACHINES, YES.
WE ARE LOOKING INTO THAT, AND THE MOST RECENT EXPENSE FOR
OUR MACHINE WAS ABOUT 40, 50 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
HOWEVER, THAT MACHINE IS ABLE TO FILL APPROXIMATELY A
THOUSAND SANDBAGS IN AN HOUR.
SO WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE HOW DO WE BEST POSTURE THE MACHINE,
HOW DO WE ACTUALLY FIND THOSE LOCATIONS WHERE WE NEED TO SET
UP ADDITIONAL SITES SO WE CAN RELIEVE THE PRESSURE IN THE
COMMUNITY.
9:39:47AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ARE THE MACHINES MOBILE AT ALL?
9:39:52AM >>OCEA WYNN:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, I'LL HAVE TO LET YOU KNOW
THAT.
9:39:54AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE REASON I ASK THAT, IF THEY ARE MOBILE,

PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET THOSE -- I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE
HOLDUP AS WELL.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET THOSE BAGS SHOVELED.
IF THEY ARE PRE-BAGGED -- AGAIN, I STILL CONTEND THAT YOU
STILL HAVE THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.
IF WE KNOW SOMETHING IS COMING, WE CAN UTILIZE THOSE HANDS
TO HELP US IN THAT ASPECT AS WELL.
I THINK THE BIGGEST PART YOU HAVE IS TRANSPORTATION FOR
PEOPLE.
WHEN YOU HAVE SOME OF OUR SENIORS -- I WENT OUT THERE AND
FILLED UP MY CAR WITH SEVERAL BAGS TO TAKE TO SENIORS.
THEY CAN'T GET OUT THERE.
WE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING, I UNDERSTAND.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE MAY LOOK AT BRINGING -- THE OVERTIME TO
WHERE YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF THOSE TRUCKS WHERE YOU GET CALL
INS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE SENIORS THAT WE CAN HAVE THEM TAKE
THE BAGS TO THEM.
THEY DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION.
THEY ARE STUCK IN, TOO.
WE CAN'T FIX EVERY PROBLEM BUT WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THEM
AND SEE HOW -- WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T DO.
9:41:04AM >>OCEA WYNN:
YES, SIR.
IN TERMS OF DISTRIBUTING OR DELIVERING TO SENIORS, WE DID
SOME OF THAT AS A TEST IF WE KNEW THERE WERE SOME.
WE HAD THE QUESTIONS IN TERMS OF CAN WE PRE-BAG THESE

SANDBAGS.
WE, IN FACT, DID THAT.
WHEN WE PRE-BAG, WE PRIMARILY GIVE THOSE TO THE SENIORS.
SO WE ARE LOOKING AT, WE'RE BEING A LOT MORE FLEXIBLE IN
WHAT WE CAN DO AND HOW WE CAN HANDLE THE SANDBAG SITUATION
-- IT'S NOT A SITUATION, BUT THE GOOD PROBLEM THAT WE DO
HAVE.
IN ADDITION TO THAT -- ONE MORE SECOND -- THAT IS WE ARE
LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVES, SUSTAINABLE ALTERNATIVES IN TERMS
OF HOW DO WE REUSE, WHAT DEVICES ARE OUT THERE SO WE CAN
REUSE THE SANDBAGS.
SO WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT AS WELL.
SO WE'RE NOT JUST DEPENDING ON JUST THE SAND OR THE SANDBAG
MACHINES.
WE ARE BRINGING IN VENDORS TO LOOK AT WHAT IS IT THEY HAVE
TO OFFER AND THEN DOES IT FIT FOR WHAT WE DO IN TOWN.
9:42:11AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
-- SAND AT ONE POINT, RIGHT?
9:42:14AM >>OCEA WYNN:
AS LONG AS WE HAVE BEACHES, WE WILL NOT RUN OUT
OF SAND.
9:42:17AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WE HAVE TO GO GET IT.
9:42:20AM >>OCEA WYNN:
WE HAVE A BACKUP.
WE HAVE VENDORS THAT WE CAN GET THE SAND TO.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW QUICKLY THEY CAN GET IT TO US.
I JUST WANT TO THROW THAT OUT THERE.
9:42:37AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, ARE YOU FINISHED?

9:42:38AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YEAH, I THINK THE INVESTMENT NEEDS TO BE
MADE IN A COUPLE OF MACHINES.
WE HAVE A BIGGER CITY GROWING.
MIGHT AS WELL PUT IT IN THERE FOR LATER SO WE CAN HAVE THEM
AND GET THEM MOVING.
I DON'T WANT TO DELAY.
THERE ARE A COUPLE MACHINES OUT THERE, WE NEED TO REALLOCATE
SOME THINGS IN THE BUDGET.
WE HAVE STORM HERE'S.
I THINK THAT IS A NEED AND A PRIORITY.
THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
GET A COUPLE OF MACHINES, WE NEED TO DO IT.
THANK YOU, SIR.
9:43:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:43:04AM >>BILL CARLSON:
AT THIS CITY, WE HAVE A BUDGET OF LIKE 1.9
BILLION, AND WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY, INCLUDING THINGS LIKE
$12 MILLION BOATHOUSES.
HURRICANES ARE A TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE THE MOST AFRAID.
THEY ARE MOST VULNERABLE.
THEY ARE DESPERATE.
THEY GET THEIR FAMILY OUT OR GET THEIR FAMILY TO SHELTER,
GET THEIR PETS TO SHELTER ALSO.
SOME OF THEM HAVE HEALTH CONCERNS AND THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT
WHETHER THEIR MACHINES ARE GOING TO BE WORKING.
AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT FLOODING

IN THEIR HOMES AND THEY RUSH TO THE CITY SANDBAG LOTS AND
THEY WAIT FOR HOURS.
THEY ARE NATURAL UPSET AND WORRIED THAT THE TIME THEY ARE
SPENDING THERE IS GOING TO CAUSE THEM TO NOT MAKE IT BACK IN
TIME TO HELP THEIR FAMILY.
OCEA AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY.
I THINK THAT 50,000, 100,000.
150,000, CONSIDERING THE MONEY WE WASTE ON OTHER THINGS, IT
IS WORTH IT TO REDUCE THE STRESS OF OUR PEOPLE.
PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL PROTECTED AND KNOW THAT THE CITY CARES
ABOUT PROTECTING THEM.
AND HAVING MORE PEOPLE OUT THERE SANDBAGGING IS NEVER GOING
TO TAKE THE PLACE OF WHAT MACHINES CAN DO.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO, AND, BY THE WAY, I HEARD MORE
COMPLAINTS.
I WOULDN'T EXACTLY CALL THEM COMPLAINTS, BUT PEOPLE WERE
TERRIFIED THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE IT BACK TO THEIR HOMES
IN TIME OR GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC.
BUT SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS, LIKE I GUESS
COUNCIL MEMBER GUDES HEARD.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE CITY STAFF REPORT BACK
TO US ON JANUARY 19th ABOUT HOW TO PURCHASE SANDBAGGING
MACHINES AND HOW TO REDUCE THE LINES AT THE SANDBAG CENTERS.
9:44:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON,
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?
9:44:59AM >> AYE.
9:44:59AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OBJECTIONS?
9:45:00AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU TO OCEA AND HER DEPARTMENT FOR
RESEARCHING ALL OF THIS PROACTIVELY.
9:45:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
MS. WYNN, AS A PERSON WHO WAS OUT THERE FILLING UP SANDBAGS,
I WANT TO THANK STAFF, AND I WANT TO THANK PARKS AND
RECREATION.
FAMILIES OUT THERE HELPING TO FILL OUT SANDBAGS WHEN THEY
COULD HAVE BEEN HOME HELPING THEIR FAMILIES SECURE THEIR
HOMES FOR THE HURRICANE.
THANK YOU.
WE LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES.
EXCUSE ME.
WE LEARN THROUGH EVERY EXPERIENCE WE GO THROUGH.
I'M SURE THE CITY OF TAMPA WILL LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE WE
WENT THROUGH FROM THE LAST TWO HURRICANES.
MS. WYNN, THANK YOU.
THANKS PARKS AND RECREATION.
AND THANK MS. SHERISHA HILLS FOR ME ALSO.
9:45:46AM >>OCEA WYNN:
WILL DO.
AND HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
9:45:49AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
9:45:51AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MS. WYNN, SINCE I HAVE YOU HERE, MR.

CHAIRMAN, IF YOU DON'T MIND, SIR.
9:46:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED.
9:46:03AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 5, I KNOW THERE WAS A MEMO, BUT
I KNOW THAT THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN PUT OFF FOR MANY, MANY
YEARS.
I REMEMBER WE FIRST GOT THAT TURF FIELD PUT IN THERE.
I WAS ONE OF THE SIGNATURES ON THAT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO HAVE
AN ORGANIZATION, FOOTBALL PROGRAM WAS PART OF THAT WHEN THAT
TURF FIELD GOT IN THERE.
THEY ARE TEARING THE FIELD UP.
THEY ARE TEARING THE FIELD UP.
WE'VE GOT TO SECURE THAT FACILITY.
AT THAT TIME, IT COST US A MILLION DOLLARS WHEN IT WAS LOW
TO GET IT IN THERE.
MIGHT HAVE BEEN 1.5.
NOW, THEY ARE JUST TEARING IT UP.
SO WE'VE GOT TO GO AND SECURE SO WE CAN KEEP THE MOTORBIKES
OUT OF THERE SO THEY CAN'T GET IN THERE.
THE WESTERN WALL BY THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, KEEP CUTTING THAT
WIRE FENCE, WE HAVE TO SECURE THE FACILITY.
AGAIN, I KNOW, WE HATE TO ASK CRA FOR MONEY AS WELL, BECAUSE
CRA IS DESIGNED FOR CERTAIN THINGS, BUT I THINK THIS MIGHT
FALL INTO THE REALM TO HELP THAT IF WE CANNOT FIND THE MONEY
IN OUR BUDGET.
I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE GOT TO GET THAT FENCE IN.

I MADE A MOTION ABOUT THAT IN 2019, PAUL DIAL.
IT WAS MADE PRIOR TO THAT.
WE HAVE TO GET GOOD FENCING AT THAT PARK.
9:47:22AM >>OCEA WYNN:
WE'LL GET IT DONE, SIR.
9:47:24AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.
9:47:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 6.
JOHNSON.
9:47:38AM >> GOOD MORNING.
CALVIN JOHNSON, DEPUTY CHIEF TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT, HERE
TO REPORT ON ITEM NUMBER 6.
I GOT CAPTAIN TRAVIS MOSS IN CHARGE OF OUR VIOLENT CRIME
BUREAU, AND I GOT DAVE FLEET FROM SHOT SPOTTER TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS.
AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I'LL HAVE CAPTAIN TRAVIS MOSS GIVE AN
UPDATE ON THE VIOLENT CRIME AND SHOT SPOTTER.
9:48:00AM >> GOOD MORNING.
MY NAME IS TRAVIS MOSS.
CAPTAIN OF THE VIOLENT CRIMES BUREAU.
PREVIOUSLY WE WERE ASKED TO COME IN AND DO A SWOT ANALYSIS
FOR SHOT SPOTTER.
GOING OVER SOME NUMBERS JUST SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS, SHOT
SPOTTER BASICALLY COVERS APPROXIMATELY FOUR SQUARE MILES OF
THE 175 SQUARE MILES OF THE CITY AND ENCOMPASSES 17 SCHOOLS,
10 PARKS.
BETWEEN 2021 AND 2022, THERE'S BEEN A DECREASE OF ABOUT 30%

OF THE SHOT SPOTTER ALERTS WE'VE HAD IN THAT AREA.
THE CRIME HAS GONE DOWN IN THE SHOT SPOTTER AREA AS FAR AS
VIOLENT CRIME, AS FAR AS SHOOTINGS GOES.
I CAN GO INTO FURTHER STATS IF YOU'D LIKE TO.
BASICALLY, IT HAS BEEN A TOOL THAT WE USE IN THE CITY.
IT'S BEEN PRETTY EFFECTIVE.
9:48:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
9:48:52AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT
THIS SUBJECT.
SHE IS NOT HERE.
IT WAS HER MOTION WITH MR. MANISCALCO, I BELIEVE.
WHAT I CAN SAY ABOUT THE SHOT SPOTTER IS I DON'T THINK ANY
GUARANTEED NUMBERS OR STATS ON IT.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT IT DOES HELP AT TIMES.
WE HAD A COUPLE OF INCIDENTS I THINK ABOUT A MONTH AGO WHERE
SOMEONE WAS SHOT.
WITHOUT THE SHOT SPOTTER, THE PERSON PROBABLY WOULD HAVE
BEEN DEAD, I BELIEVE.
BUT THE SHOT SPOTTER WAS ABLE TO GET POLICE THERE TO FIND
THAT VICTIM TO GET HIM TO THE HOSPITAL.
SOME MAY FEEL IT'S A WASTE, BUT THERE ARE SOME PROS TO IT.
IF THAT WAS YOUR LOVED ONE AND THEY WERE IN THAT ALLEY AT
THAT STORE BLEEDING TO DEATH AND YOU HAD NO AVENUE OF NO ONE
KNEW THEY WERE THERE, HOW DO YOU FEEL?
BUT THE SHOT SPOTTER WAS ABLE TO BE ABLE TO ALERT LAW

ENFORCEMENT TO SCOUR THE AREA, AND THEY FOUND THE GENTLEMAN
SHOT.
IT'S HAPPENED MORE THAN ONCE.
I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT.
IT IS A TOOL.
SOME MIGHT SAY IT COSTS, EXPENSIVE, THE NUMBERS, BUT
SOMETIMES -- I DON'T BELIEVE IN STATS.
STATS CAN BE SKEWED ANY KIND OF WAY.
I BELIEVE IN RESULTS.
NOT DOING A NUMBER GAMES.
SOMETIMES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS NUMBERS.
SOMETIMES NUMBERS DON'T REALLY TELL THE TRUE STORY
SOMETIMES.
I CAN TELL THE STORY WHEN I CAN SAY SOMETHING WORKED.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COUNCIL MEMBERS FEEL, BUT I WOULD BE IN
FAVOR OF KEEPING THE PROGRAM AT THIS TIME BECAUSE I CAN SEE
THE BENEFIT THAT IT DID OR DOES HELP SOME PEOPLE IN DISTRESS
AT TIMES.
A LOT OF TIMES IT GETS SCREWED BECAUSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE
SHOOTING FIRECRACKERS, AND IT THROWS IT OFF A LITTLE BIT
WITH YOUR NUMBERS.
IN MOST CASES, IF SHOTS ARE FIRED, POLICE CAN GET TO THE
OTHER AREA QUICKLY TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AND MAYBE PREVENT
SOMETHING ELSE FROM GOING ON.
I DON'T LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.

I LOOK AT THE ACTUAL WORK THAT IT'S DOING.
DID IT DO IN I GO?
DID IT PREVENT ANYTHING?
IN THIS CASE, IT HAS PREVENTED SOME DEATHS BECAUSE POLICE
OFFICERS WERE ABLE TO GET THERE TO GIVE SOMEBODY SOME AID.
THAT'S MY SPIEL.
I THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
9:51:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:51:20AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I THINK THE CASE YOU MENTIONED, THE PERSON
WAS DECEASED ALREADY OR PASSED AWAY.
AND THE QUESTION IS -- THE QUESTION ABOUT SHOT SPOTTER,
SETTING ASIDE ALL THE CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES WHICH HAVE BEEN
COVERED IN THE MEDIA, THE ISSUE IS COULD THIS MONEY BE
BETTER SPENT?
WHAT I HEAR FROM THE POLICE OFFICERS, BECAUSE I THINK THEY
ARE THE ONES THAT -- THE BEAT OFFICERS OR THE ONES AFFECTED
BY THIS IS THEY WANT MORE POLICE OFFICERS IN THE FIELD.
WE'RE SHORT ABOUT 200 OFFICERS FROM WHERE WE WERE ABOUT 15
YEARS AGO.
THEY FEEL OVERTAXED AND 250,000 OR WHATEVER IT IS, IT MAY BE
A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT IT COULD PAY FOR TWO OR SO
POLICE OFFICERS.
LET ME ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
HOW MANY OF THESE ARE IN SOUTH TAMPA?
9:52:10AM >> THERE IS NO SHOT SPOTTER IN SOUTH TAMPA.

9:52:12AM >>BILL CARLSON:
HOW MANY IN WEST TAMPA?
9:52:14AM >> NOTHING IN WEST TAMPA.
9:52:15AM >>BILL CARLSON:
NEW TAMPA?
9:52:16AM >> THERE'S NOTHING IN NEW TAMPA.
9:52:18AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SHOOTINGS IN YBOR ALMOST EVERY WEEKEND.
HOW MANY IN YBOR CITY.
9:52:23AM >> SHOT SPOTTER ENDS JUST NORTH OF YBOR CITY.
9:52:26AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YOU ALL SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON THIS.
IT'S RED LINING WITH TECHNOLOGY IN A WAY.
THERE IS VIOLENT ACTIVITY ALL OVER THE CITY AND IT'S EASY TO
PLAY WITH NUMBERS, AS COUNCILMAN GUDES SAID.
I'LL USE THAT ARGUMENT IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.
THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE IN TAMPA HAS GONE UP EVERY YEAR FOR
THE LAST THREE YEARS.
EVEN THOUGH WE SUPPORTED EVERY EXPENDITURE AND GONE UP
HIGHER THAN NATIONAL AVERAGE.
YOU CAN SEE THE TIMES EDITORIAL ABOUT THAT.
WHEN YOU ASK ACTUAL POLICE OFFICERS THEY SAY WE NEED MORE
POLICE OFFICERS IN THE FIELD.
AND THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY THAT'S ONLY DEPLOYED IN EAST TAMPA.
IT'S NOT EVEN DEPLOYED IN YBOR CITY.
YBOR CITY, I'VE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH CHIEFS OF POLICE
AND CHIEF OF STAFF AND OTHERS.
YBOR CITY IS BEGGING FOR HELP AND FOR SOME REASON SOMEBODY
DIDN'T PUT THESE IN YBOR CITY.

THE OTHER THING IS, I WON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBERS EXACTLY
RIGHT, BUT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS IS, WELL, 90% OF THESE ARE
NOT CALLED INTO 911.
IF THERE IS A DEAD BODY BEHIND A CONVENIENCE STORE, SOMEBODY
WILL EVENTUALLY CALL IT IN.
IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE SOMEBODY'S LIFE WOULD BE SAVED, BUT IF
I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, OUT OF 500 CALLS A YEAR, ONLY ABOUT
125 OR 140 WERE ACTUALLY INVESTIGATED FURTHER THAN LOOKING
AT SOME SHELLS.
OUT OF THOSE ONLY ABOUT 25 HAD CHARGES APPLIED TO THEM.
WHEN I ASKED THE QUESTION, HOW MANY OF THOSE 25 WERE NOT
CALLED INTO 911?
THE ONLY EXAMPLE GIVEN TO ME, WHICH MAYBE WAS NOT EVEN IN
THE 25, WAS THIS ONE ABOUT THE PERSON WHO WAS ALREADY
DECEASED.
THE PROBLEM IS, IF YOU TALK TO ACTUAL POLICE OFFICERS, AND
HERE IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY, MORE THAN
ANYTHING, IS IT WASTE POLICE OFFICERS' TIME.
IF WE'RE ALREADY SHORT 200 POLICE OFFICERS, AND IF POLICE
OFFICERS FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE ABOUT 35% OF THE TIME TO
PATROL, AS THEY DID 15 YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF PAPERWORK AND
WE'RE USING TWO DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES TO TRACK, I DON'T
KNOW WHY WE USE TWO DIFFERENT SOFTWARE PACKAGES, BUT WE USE
TWO DIFFERENT SOFTWARE PACKAGES TO MONITOR THINGS, THIS IS A
HUGE BURDEN ON THEM.

WHAT ONE POLICE OFFICER SAID IS I WAS GOING TO A SITE WITH
MY PARTNER, BECAUSE WE'RE REQUIRED TO GO TO THESE OTHER
SITES, WE HAD PULL AWAY.
IT PUT MY PARTNER IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION.
IF 360 OR SO OF THESE LEAD TO NOTHING, THEY EITHER SEE
NOTHING OR THEY SEE GUN SHELLS.
WHAT THE POLICE OFFICERS SAY IS WE GO OUT THERE, REMEMBER,
THERE'S VIOLENT CRIME GOING ON THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
VIOLENT CRIME RATE SHOT UP MORE THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
SO POLICE OFFICERS, WE'RE ALREADY 200 SHORT, WHAT THEY DO IS
THEY HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AND LOOK AT THIS.
SPEND AN HOUR OR TWO LOOKING AROUND.
IF THEY FIND SHELLS, THEN THEY HAVE TO CALL FORENSICS.
THEY COME OUT, DOCUMENT, TAKE PHOTOS WITH POLICE OFFICERS
WAITING.
THEN FORENSICS TAKES IT BACK TO THE OFFICE TO INVESTIGATE
IT, WHICH TAKES SEVERAL MORE HOURS OF SEVERAL MORE PEOPLE'S
TIME.
THEN THE POLICE OFFICER HAS TO WRITE A REPORT THAT MIGHT
TAKE AN HOUR OR TWO.
INSTEAD WE NEED POLICE OFFICERS ON THE GROUND FIGHTING CRIME
AND PREVENTING CRIME.
WHEN POLICE OFFICERS TELL ME THIS IS A WASTE OF MONEY AND
WASTE OF THEIR TIME, THEIR TIME IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE
250,000, I'M NOT SUPPORTING IT.

9:55:31AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CAN I RESPOND TO THAT?
9:55:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
9:55:34AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I'VE HEARD BOTH SIDES.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, COUNCILMAN GUDES.
COUNCILMAN GUDES IS A FORMER POLICE OFFICER, SO HE'S GOT
MORE EXPERIENCE THAN OTHERS.
WHEN SECONDS COUNT, POLICE ARE MINUTES AWAY.
THIS IS A TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX THAT WILL ALLOW OFFICERS A
LITTLE EXTRA HELP.
ANOTHER THING IS, AND COUNCILMAN CARLSON BROUGHT IT UP, IS
THE SHORTAGE OF POLICE OFFICERS.
I'VE BEEN -- WE'VE ALL BEEN RECEIVING THE E-MAILS FROM THE
PIO OF VIOLENT CRIME SHOOTINGS, DEATHS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
EITHER I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION OR WE HAVE A VIOLENT CRIME
ISSUE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, WHICH MEANS WE NEED ONE OF TWO
THINGS: MORE TECHNOLOGY, EXPAND THE SHOT SPOTTER PROGRAM.
BECAUSE AS YBOR CITY WAS MENTIONED.
YBOR CITY HAS HAD SOME ISSUES.
I'M HEARING IT A FEW TIMES A WEEK.
NOT EVERY DAY, BUT FEW TIMES A WEEK, SHOOTING, GUN,
SOMETHING.
I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO DO OUR BEST.
AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH POLICE
OFFICERS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

IF YOU LOOK BACK I WANT TO SAY DURING THE FREEDMAN
ADMINISTRATION, I THINK THERE WAS A PROPOSED MILLAGE
INCREASE.
THAT'S WHAT THEY DID AT THE TIME TO GET FUNDING TO HIRE MORE
POLICE OFFICERS.
PERHAPS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT IS BRINGING MORE.
I KNOW WE SWORE IN QUITE A FEW NEW OFFICERS THE OTHER DAY,
BUT CITY OF TAMPA IS GROWING.
AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
WE HAVE, WHAT, ABOUT A THOUSAND SWORN OFFICERS, GIVE OR
TAKE, IF I'M REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.
MAYBE WE NEED TO HIRE MORE OFFICERS TO AID THE EXISTING
OFFICERS TO HAVE BETTER RESPONSE TIME.
WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE THIS CITY SAFER.
I'M NOT AGAINST THIS PROGRAM.
I SEE THE BENEFITS OF IT BECAUSE IF YOU CAN SAVE ONE LIFE,
IF YOU CAN SOLVE ONE MORE CRIME, WHATEVER IT TAKES.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE NEED MORE MANPOWER.
I'LL STOP THERE.
BUT I APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS.
THANK YOU.
9:57:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
CHIEF JOHNSON, GIVE ME ONE SECOND.
COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU WANT TO RESPOND?
9:57:34AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES, SIR.
ALL OF THE THINGS MR. CARLSON SAYS ARE VALID.

THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE IS THIS -- AND I DIDN'T KNOW.
I DID NOT KNOW SHOT SPOTTER WASN'T ALL OVER THE CITY.
THAT'S A PROBLEM.
WE CAN'T SAY WE WANT TO DO ONE AREA WHEN ALL THE COUNCILMEN
KNOW WE'RE GETTING CALLS ALL OVER THE CITY.
THAT'S UNFAIR TO THE CITIZENS.
THAT'S UNFAIR.
PEOPLE CAN SAY IT'S RACIST, WHATEVER.
WE DON'T WANT THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
IF WE HAVE IT IN ONE AREA, IT SHOULD BE ALL OVER THE CITY.
THAT'S NUMBER ONE.
I UNDERSTAND COST, BUT YOU CAN'T PINPOINT ONE PLACE AND NOT
DO OTHER.
YBOR IS SPIKING, OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY HAVING SHOOTINGS.
NORTH END OF TOWN, THEY HAVE SHOOTINGS AS WELL.
LOOK AT THE STATS, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.
MR. CARLSON.
YOU ARE RIGHT ON THAT POINT.
I RECEIVE CALLS FROM VETERAN OFFICERS, WHAT HAPPENED,
GENTLEMEN, THE DROP PROGRAM BECAME GOOD TO POLICE OFFICERS.
YOU UNDERSTAND.
SO WHEN THAT CYCLE COMES AROUND, YOU HAVE A MASS EXODUS OF
POLICE OFFICERS.
MASS EXODUS.
SO WE'RE NOT RECRUITING AND REFILLING THOSE SPOTS BEFORE

THAT DROP COMES.
NOW THE ACTUAL QUESTION, SOME OFFICERS TOLD ME TO ASK THE
QUESTIONS, WHICH I KNOW THOSE KIND OF ANSWERS, WHY THIS
COUNCIL ASK THE QUESTIONS.
NUMBER ONE, HOW MANY ACTUAL SWORN PERSONNEL DO WE HAVE?
BECAUSE YOU HAVE SWORN PERSONNEL, BUT WITHIN THAT SWORN
PERSONNEL, YOU HAVE MAYBE 200, MAYBE 300 DETECTIVES --
STREET PATROL.
OTHER OFFICERS THAT MAY BE SWORN PERSONNEL WHO ARE IN A
SPECIALIZED AREA THAT ARE NOT DOING ACTUAL BEAT CONTROL AS
YOU CALL IT.
WE GO TO SQUAD.
SERGEANT, CORPORAL.
MAYBE HAD A FAT SQUAD, MAYBE 12 OFFICERS AT A TIME.
MAYBE.
LET'S GO A DAY TO WHERE YOU HAVE OFFICERS WHO MIGHT TAKE A
VACATION.
SOMEBODY CALLS IN SICK OR SOMEONE GETS HURT.
NOW THAT FAT SQUAD GOES DOWN TO MAYBE 7 OR 8.
NOW LET'S SAY IT'S A BAD DAY OR THERE'S A NEED FOR OFFICERS
TO BE SOMEPLACE ELSE, PARADES.
NOW THE SQUAD GOES DOWN TO FILLING ZONES.
THERE ARE FOUR AREAS IN A ZONE.
LINCOLN ONE MAY BE THE SERGEANT.
CORPORAL.

IN THAT ZONE, AREA, THREE, FOUR, WHATEVER.
NOW THAT'S YOUR SQUAD.
NOW KILLER ZONE.
KILLER ZONE MEANS THAT NOW I'M DOWN A ZONE.
THAT CORPORAL IS PROBABLY GOING TO FILL THAT ZONE BECAUSE
NOW YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO TRY TO FILL EACH ONE OF THOSE
AREAS.
IF THE CORPORAL MAY BE PULLED, MAYBE THE OTHER SQUAD
SUPERVISOR IS OUT, ON VACATION, NOW THAT CORPORAL BECOMES AN
ACTING PERSON FOR THAT OTHER SQUAD OVER THERE.
NOW YOU PULLED ANOTHER PERSON.
TALK ABOUT NUMBERS, THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.
NOW YOU TALK ABOUT A NIGHT SHIFT OR EVENING SHIFT, WE TRIED
TO OVERLAP THEM.
THE PROBLEM IS THE MANPOWER IS DOWN.
WE CAN'T USE THE ADAGE OF HOW MANY OFFICERS PER CAPITA PER
CITY.
THAT IS A STAT GAME AGAIN.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR CITY, WHAT IS YOUR NEED?
BUT YOU'LL HAVE SOME PEOPLE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A HOUSING
CRISIS.
COMMUNITIES WHO SAY WE DON'T NEED MORE POLICE.
YOU'RE GIVING THEM MORE MONEY ALREADY.
PEOPLE SAYING MY CRIME IS GOING UP.
DO SOMETHING ABOUT MY CRIME.

I'VE GOT FRANKLIN ON CHELSEA AND 34th, WHERE ARE THE
POLICE?
WE DON'T SEE THE POLICE.
YOU CAN'T SEE THE POLICE IF I'VE ONLY GOT THREE GUYS WORKING
A ZONE THAT NIGHT.
IF I GET A SHOOTING OR HOMICIDE, ALL THOSE GUYS, ALL THREE
OF THOSE GUYS HAVE TO WORK THAT HOMICIDE.
THEN A SISTER SQUAD MAYBE FROM THE OTHER SECTOR THAT COME IN
TO HELP FILL CALLS.
THEY ARE NOT FROM THAT AREA BUT THEY TAKE THE CALLS IN THE
AREA FOR SERVICE.
LET'S SAY YOU HAVE TWO SHOOTINGS, KNOWN TO HAPPEN WHERE YOU
HAVE TWO CRIME SCENES.
YOU HAVE TO PULL A PERSON FROM MAYBE A SECTOR.
MAYBE NEEDS TO BE A TRAINING.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COMES AND
EXPLAINS TO THE PUBLIC HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WORKS.
HOW IS A SECTOR CREATED?
IN THAT SECTOR, YOU HAVE TWO AREAS THERE.
YOU HAVE A MAJOR WHO IS THE COMMANDER OF THAT DISTRICT.
NOW A CAPTAIN, TWO CAPTAINS.
ONE MAYBE SECTOR D, ONE DO SECTOR E.
THEN YOU HAVE YOUR NUMBERS.
I THINK MAYBE WE'LL MAKE A MOTION AND YOU COME AND EXPLAIN
HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OPERATES TO THE PUBLIC AND REALLY

KNOW YOUR CHALLENGES SO THEY DON'T SAY, WHAT ARE THE POLICE
DOING, WE'RE JUST GIVING THEM MORE MONEY.
THANK YOU, SIR.
10:02:30AM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
I CAME IN IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, BUT I FEEL I CAN COMMENT ON
IT.
WE TALK ABOUT POLICE SHORTAGE AND FEWER POLICE.
I DON'T HAVE THE STATS TO BACK IT, BUT I WOULD BE WILLING TO
BET SOMETHING THAT WE'VE HAD A LOT OF RETIREMENTS BECAUSE
THERE'S A LOT OF DISILLUSIONMENT PROBABLY AMONG POLICE
OFFICERS AND A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE LAST TWO, TWO AND A HALF
YEARS HAVE FELT ATTACKED AND OVERBURDENED.
WE'VE HAD A LOT OF MASS ARRESTS.
WE'VE HAD COVID-19.
WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES FOR POLICE OFFICERS.
THAT TO ME IS OPEN AND OBVIOUS.
I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING FEWER POLICE, YOU GOT TO
MENTION THAT.
ON A LOT OF THESE ISSUES, I'D LIKE TO HEAR AND OBVIOUSLY GOD
BLESS YOU GUYS, BUT I'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM THE RANK AND FILE,
EVERY SINGLE DAY POLICE OFFICERS ON WHY WE'RE NOT HAVING
MORE POLICE OFFICERS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
I GOT A FEELING MY RECKONING IS GOING TO BE ON POINT HERE.
WHEN IT COMES TO THIS ISSUE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THIS
PROGRAM, LET ME ASK YOU ALL THIS.

IS IT ONLY IN EAST TAMPA OR NORTH TAMPA?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON MENTIONED NEW TAMPA.
ANY NORTH TAMPA, SULPHUR SPRINGS.
10:03:41AM >> WHEN SHOT SPOTTER FIRST STARTED AND WE GOT IT, WE HAD A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FUNDING.
WE ONLY HAD A CERTAIN AREA THAT WE CAN PUT IT IN BASED ON
THE FUNDING.
WHAT WE DID IS WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT OUR STATS AS FAR
AS FIREARMS BEING SHOT AND WHERE THEY WERE OCCURRING AT.
WE HAD TWO SECTORS, SECTOR E, WHICH IS IN DISTRICT 3, AND
SECTOR D IN DISTRICT 2, TO WHERE THEY WERE KIND OF
COMPARABLE WITH THE GUNFIRE THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF TAMPA.
SO WHAT WE DID THEN IS WITH USF, SECTOR D WAS USEFUL LIKE A
COMPARISON STUDY.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE SHOT SPOTTER.
SECTOR E DID.
FINANCIALLY, TO HAVE IT INITIALLY WITHOUT DOING THAT STUDY
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE CITY OF TAMPA WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN
REASONABLE.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SMART.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR VIOLENT CRIME FIREARM NUMBERS, YOU'LL
BE ABLE TO FIND OUT WHERE THEY ARE OCCURRING AT.
THAT'S WHERE SHOT SPOTTER WAS LOCATED, WAS BASED ON.
THE NUMBER OF GUNFIRES THAT WE HAVE AND WHERE IN THE CITY.
10:04:51AM >>LUIS VIERA:
IF I MAY, SIR.

YEAH, MY VIEW ON THIS, AS COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO SAID, IT IS
A GOOD TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX.
IT DOES REQUIRE, OBVIOUSLY, SOME FOLKS HAVE SAID, EVERYTHING
HAS ITS EXCESS AND THINGS THAT MEAN WELL CAN GO WRONG AND
HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT WE COULD ALL IMPROVE ON
AND THAT COULD CAUSE A LOT OF CHALLENGES, ET CETERA.
SO I THINK OVERSIGHT ON THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD, BUT
I THINK ABANDONING IT AT THIS TIME WOULD PROBABLY BE UNWISE.
OVERSIGHT IS OBVIOUSLY WARRANTED.
THAT'S ALL, THANK YOU.
10:05:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
10:05:25AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU MUCH.
IT'S NOT THAT THE CITY OF TAMPA HAS A NEED FOR MORE
OFFICERS.
WHEN YOU LOOK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE'RE NOT -- TO THAT.
THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LIKE THAT.
I THINK IT WAS SEATTLE THE OTHER DAY, I SAW ON TV THEY GIVE
A BONUS.
FORGOT WHAT THE BONUS WAS, BUT IN THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS
FOR YOU TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER THERE.
AT ONE TIME, I THINK MIAMI AND US WERE THE TWO HIGHEST IN
POLICE OFFICERS FOR POPULATION IN FLORIDA.
I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M GOING BACK IN MEMORY.
TAMPA HAD ONE POLICE OFFICER FOR HOW MANY PEOPLE, I FORGET

THAT FIGURE ALSO.
A THOUSAND OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, IT WAS 1 PER 1,000.
I FORGET EXACTLY.
COMPARABLE WITH ANYONE ELSE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FIGURES ARE TODAY OR WHAT THE OTHER
CITIES ARE TODAY, BUT WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS LIKE
EPIDEMIC WITHOUT HAVING AN ANTIDOTE TO CURE IT.
BACTERIA SPREAD IN YOUR BODY AND WE HAVEN'T HAD THE
WHEREABOUTS TO FIND OUT WHAT CAUSED IT AND HOW TO CURE IT.
IF YOU SEE THIS EVERY DAY OF THE DAILY NEWS AND THE KIDS
SAY, WHAT DO I WANT TO BE HERE FOR?
I CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE.
THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY.
LITTLE BY LITTLE, WE ARE BECOMING ERODED TO THE THINGS THAT
WE NEED TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN THE
CITIES.
THE COUNTY IS THE SAME WAY.
BUT THERE'S JUST A MENTALITY THAT PEOPLE ARE USING GUNS MORE
LIKE CHEWING BUBBLE GUM.
THEY THINK IT'S GOING TO CURE, ME HAVING A GUN AND SHOOTING
SOMEBODY IS LIKE CHEWING GUM.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.
THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES ON BOTH SIDES.
WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE, NOT ONLY YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, WHAT

ABOUT THE FAMILY, THE PERSON YOU JUST KILLED.
WHAT ABOUT THEM?
THE FAMILY?
THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO SEE THEM.
THE GRANDKIDS.
IT'S JUST A TRAVESTY AND A HURT THAT NO ONE CAN REALLY SAY
HOW IT HAPPENED UNLESS YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE THAT ONE OF YOUR
FAMILY MEMBERS GOT KILLED AND YOU JUST GOT MARRIED AND HAVE
A BABY ON THE WAY.
IT'S JUST TRAGIC ALL THE WAY DOWN THE LINE.
I'M NOT A SOLVER OF MYSTERY, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT IT GOES
BACK FROM THE TIME YOU ARE BORN.
WHAT YOU SEE ON TELEVISION, SEE ON THE INTERNET, PEOPLE
SHOOTING EVERY DAY, THE NEXT DAY, SAME PEOPLE BACK ON TV ON
ANOTHER SHOW.
SO NOBODY REALLY DIED, BUT THEY DO DIE WHEN YOU HAVE THE GUN
IN YOUR HAND AND YOU PULL THE TRIGGER.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IN AMERICA.
IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOLVED IN A DIFFERENT MANNER THAN
WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING BECAUSE IT'S TOO EASY TO GET WHATEVER
YOU'RE GOING TO USE TO KILL SOMEONE.
BUT THAT'S IT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:08:20AM >> JUST TO ADDRESS, BECAUSE I HEAR TALK ABOUT HIRING
OFFICERS AND STUFF, WE'VE JUST SWORN A LARGE CLASS OF
OFFICERS, VERY DIVERSE.

I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A TRAINING PROGRAM.
AND WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO CATCH UP TO OUR FULL STRENGTH FOR
THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
WE'RE VERY CLOSE RIGHT NOW, BUT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND WE
PUT OFFICERS THROUGH A TRAINING PROGRAM.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PREPARED FOR THE STREET.
THERE ARE FIVE PHASES THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
THAT CAN TAKE UP TO SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HIRE SOMEBODY AND PUT THEM OUT THERE
WITHOUT HAVING A GOOD FOUNDATION, NOT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO
BE PERFECT, BUT THEY ARE TRAINED UP TO A LEVEL WHERE WE FEEL
COMFORTABLE THEY CAN GIVE GOOD SERVICE OUT THERE.
COUNCILMAN GUDES HIT ON A LOT OF IT.
WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE GETTING SICK, MILITARY DUTY,
SOMETIMES THEY GET PULLED SOMETIMES FOR A WHOLE YEAR,
FIGHTING FOR OUR COUNTRY.
SOMETIMES THEY GET HURT ON DUTY AND THEY ARE LIGHT DUTY FOR
FOUR, FIVE, SIX MONTHS.
DURING COVID, WE HAD WHOLE SQUADS GET COVID, AND THEY GOT TO
BE QUARANTINED FOR TEN DAYS.
SO THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS THAT GO INTO MANAGING THE
PERSONNEL REAL TIME EVERY DAY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, NOT JUST
US, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHEREVER YOU MAY WORK AT BASED ON
WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH IN YOUR PERSONAL LIVES.
INJURIES, SICKNESS, VACATIONS, AND EVERYTHING.

SO WE'RE DOING A GOOD JOB TRYING TO CATCH UP AND HIRING
OFFICERS TO BE AT FULL STRENGTH.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TALKING TO OFFICERS ABOUT THEM
BEING SHORT ON CERTAIN SQUADS AND STUFF, IT'S NOT THAT EASY
TO EXPLAIN WHAT A CITY MAY GO THROUGH AT TIMES.
COUNCILMAN GUDES TALKED ABOUT IT, IF A HOMICIDE HAPPENS OR A
BAD TRAFFIC ACCIDENT HAPPENS OR A BAD DOMESTIC OR A HOSTAGE,
THAT'S GOING TO TAKE EXTRA RESOURCES, AND IT MAY TAKE TWO OR
THREE HOURS TO GET THAT SCENE UNDER CONTROL, WE MAY PULL
FROM DISTRICT ONE, TWO, OR THREE JUST UNTIL WE GET THINGS
CALMED DOWN.
SO THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO POLICING.
I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
WE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB AT IT.
AND WE HAVE A LOT OF OFFICERS FROM OTHER AGENCIES THAT WANT
TO COME AND WORK FOR TAMPA, AND THERE IS A REASON BEHIND
THAT.
WE'RE NOT PERFECT, BUT WE'RE PRETTY GOOD AT WHAT WE DO.
10:10:56AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION.
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR COMMENT FIRST OR MAKE A MOTION
FIRST.
10:11:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
GO AHEAD AND MAKE YOUR MOTION, COUNCILMAN
CARLSON.
10:11:04AM >>BILL CARLSON:
AND ONE OTHER COMMENT.
IN SOME OF THE BRIEFINGS RELATED TO TPD, THERE'S BEEN A

REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AND I'VE ASKED THE
CITY ATTORNEY, KEEP IN MIND THE CHARTER SAYS THE CITY
ATTORNEY REPRESENTS THE MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL, DEPARTMENTS,
ET CETERA.
THERE ARE TIMES WHEN A CITY ATTORNEY HAS TO REPRESENT A
DEPARTMENT OR THE MAYOR, AND I'VE ASKED THAT CITY ATTORNEY
IF A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS GOING
TO BE THERE REPRESENTING TPD, THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY ALSO
PROVIDE AN ATTORNEY AT EACH OF THE MEETINGS THAT WILL BE
REPRESENTING THE CITY COUNCIL.
THAT IS NOT JUST A DUTY OF THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, BUT
ALSO THE CITY ATTORNEY.
BUT THE MOTION IS, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE STAFF
COME BACK ON JANUARY 19 TO REPORT TO COUNCIL ON THEIR PLANS
TO FILL THE 200 OFFICER SHORTAGE AND TO REDUCE THE VIOLENT
CRIME RATE.
10:12:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
10:12:04AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALLOW ME TO ADD TO THE MOTION, SIR.
IF WE'RE GOING TO ASK, I WOULD ASK THAT THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT MAKE A FULL PRESENTATION OF THE OPERATIONAL
STRUCTURE OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, HOW IT OPERATES, THE
MANPOWER, THE SQUADS, HOW IT FUNCTIONS.
THAT WAY THE CITIZENS CAN KNOW THE WORK YOU DO.
I SAY IT ALL THE TIME, WE COMMUNICATE BAD IN THE CITY.
IT'S LIKE WE ARE SCARED TO TELL THE PEOPLE WHAT WE DO.

WE NEED TO TELL THE PEOPLE WHAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DO.
WHETHER PEOPLE HATE THE POLICE OR LIKE THE POLICE, THEY NEED
TO KNOW THE FUNCTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HOW MANY SWORN DETECTIVES YOU HAVE IN EACH DIVISION.
HOW MANY SQUADS YOU HAVE WITH OFFICERS AND WHAT DOES A SQUAD
MEAN?
WHAT IS THE BREAKDOWN OF A SQUAD?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS AN INCIDENT WHERE SOMETIMES YOU
ARE PULLING -- SOMETIMES YOU PULL FROM THE SHERIFF'S
DEPARTMENT OR MAJOR ACCIDENT ON THE INTERSTATE WHERE WE HAVE
TO SHUT THE INTERSTATE DOWN.
YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT
SO PEOPLE CAN GET A GENERAL GIST OF WHY YOU HAVE SHORTAGES
AND WHERE ARE THE SHORTAGES AND THE DOLLARS.
WHAT IS THE SHORTAGE, GET US UP TO PAR, PER CAPITA.
WHAT IT WOULD REALLY TAKE TO SECURE THE CITY AND THE NEEDS
OF THE CITY.
IF YOU WOULD BRING THAT ADDITION TO ONE OF THESE THINGS.
TAKE IT AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
10:13:24AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I'LL RESTATE THE MOTION, IF THAT'S OKAY.
I FORGOT TO MENTION STAFF AND THE POLICE UNION.
SO I'D LIKE TO HAVE STAFF AND THE POLICE UNION PRESENT ON
JANUARY 19th ABOUT HOW TO FILL THE 200 OFFICER SHORTAGE
AND TO REDUCE THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE AND TO EXPLAIN HOW TPD
WORKS SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN SEE.

10:13:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, MAY I ASK, IS THAT UNDER
STAFF REPORT OR UNDER WORKSHOP?
BECAUSE STAFF REPORTS ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE FIVE MINUTES
LONG.
IF THIS IS GOING TO TAKE -- I WOULD THINK IT WOULD TAKE MORE
THAN FIVE MINUTES, CAN YOU PLEASE PUT IT UNDER A WORKSHOP?
10:14:06AM >> JANUARY 26.
10:14:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THAT A WORKSHOP?
10:14:08AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:14:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHAT DOES OUR AGENDA LOOK LIKE FOR JANUARY
26.
10:14:11AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SO DOES EVERY COUNCIL MEMBER AS WELL.
10:14:17AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M PASSING THAT BATON TO OUR CITY CLERK.
10:14:25AM >>THE CLERK:
CURRENTLY YOU HAVE NINE WORKSHOPS AND ONE STAFF
REPORT FOR JANUARY 26th.
10:14:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE ANOTHER AGENDA ITEM TALKING ABOUT
THAT.
WOULD THAT OVERBURDEN --
10:14:38AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I'M HAPPY TO PUT ON FEBRUARY 23rd.
10:14:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S GO WITH FEBRUARY 23RD, IF YOU DO NOT
MIND.
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:14:50AM >> AYE.

10:14:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE ANY OBJECTIONS?
NOW, IF WE CAN COME BACK TO THIS AGENDA ITEM, CAN WE ALL
COME BACK TO THIS AGENDA ITEM, PLEASE.
ANY MORE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 6?
WHAT WE'RE HERE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
I HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
WE TALKED ABOUT -- EXCUSE ME, THERE WAS MENTION OF FUNDING
FOR THIS PROJECT.
HOW IS THIS FUNDING PAID FOR?
IS THIS A GRANT THAT MUST BE USED BY THE CITY OF TAMPA FOR
THIS SPECIFIC PURPOSE OR DOES THIS COME OUT OF GENERAL
FUNDS?
10:15:39AM >> I BELIEVE I CAME UP HERE MAYBE A MONTH AGO FOR YOUR VOTE
ON THAT GENERAL FUNDING SIDE OF IT.
OVERALL, WE TRY AND GET GRANTS.
THEY GET INITIATED BY GRANTS.
WE'RE CONTINUALLY TRYING TO GET GRANTS, NOT JUST FUND THIS,
BUT MANY PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE.
10:15:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE THE GRANTS THAT WE'RE RECEIVING FOR THIS
DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO PAY FOR THIS?
10:16:06AM >> YES.
AND AT TIMES, THERE IS A TIMING PERIOD OF WHEN A GRANT GET
APPROVED AND WHEN THE FUNDING GETS THERE.
10:16:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I GUESS MY -- NO.
I KNOW MY POINT IS, IF WE RECEIVE GRANT FUNDING SPECIFICALLY

DESIGNED FOR THIS, WE CAN'T SPEND IT ANYWHERE ELSE, AM I
CORRECT ON THAT ASSUMPTION?
10:16:26AM >> I BELIEVE SO.
I GOT MY LEGAL COUNSEL HERE, MEGAN NEWCOMB, HERE TO ANSWER
THAT QUESTION.
10:16:35AM >> GOOD MORNING, CHAIRMAN.
IT'S BEEN A FOUR-YEAR CONTRACT.
THE FIRST THREE YEARS WERE FUNDED EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH GRANT
FUNDING.
THIS LAST YEAR IT WAS A RENEWAL.
WHEN WE CAME IN SEPTEMBER, WE'RE UNDER THE LAST YEAR OF THE
CONTRACT WHICH IS I BELIEVE JUNE TO JUNE OF 2023.
IT WAS PARTIALLY FUNDED WITH A GRANT AND PARTIALLY FUNDED
WITH GENERAL FUNDS FROM 2023.
OUR ANTICIPATION AND HOPE IS TO RECEIVE GRANT FUNDING FOR
THE FUTURE OF SHOT SPOTTER AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE TO BRING
THAT IN FRONT OF COUNCIL LATER IN 2023.
10:17:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHEN WILL WE KNOW THAT?
BY WHAT DATE DO YOU PERCEIVE WE'LL KNOW THAT?
10:17:15AM >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE GRANT WRITER IN THE CITY WHO
SAID THAT THE LIKELIHOOD IS GOOD, BUT I DIDN'T ASK HER FOR A
TIME FRAME.
I WOULD THINK IF THE CONTRACT EXPIRES IN JUNE THAT WE WOULD
HAVE TO COME HERE AND KNOW AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR MONTHS

PRIOR TO THAT.
10:17:33AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IT IS MY OPINION THAT THAT'S THE TIME WE
REALLY NEED TO DISCUSS SHOT SPOTTER.
I WOULD HAVE OBJECTIONS WITH IT IF IT TOTALLY CAME OUT OF
EITHER THE POLICE BUDGET OR OUR GENERAL FUND, WHICH IS
COMBINED.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:17:49AM >>BILL CARLSON:
NO, I THINK SHE CLARIFIED WHAT I WAS GOING
TO SAY, WHICH IS THAT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF GRANT FUNDING
GOING FORWARD.
THEY -- AS YOU SAID, THEY TRY TO GET GRANTS FOR LOTS OF
THINGS.
NO GUARANTEE GOING FORWARD.
THIS WAS INITIATED BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OFFERED A
GRANT TO TEST.
IT IS KIND OF BETA TEST TO SEE IF IT WORKS.
TRYING TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD.
BUT IF WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF POLICE OFFICERS, WE NEED TO
REDUCE THE BURDEN ON THE OFFICERS, AND IF THEY ARE GOING OUT
WITH 360 CALLS SPENDING HOURS AND HOURS WHERE THEY COULD BE
ACTUALLY SOLVING CRIMES, I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT.
10:18:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WITH THAT, COUNCILMAN CARLSON, I WILL AGREE
WITH YOU.
IF WE CAN GET FUNDING FOR THIS BUT FUNDING SPECIFICALLY IS
THAT WE PAY FOR THE SHOT SPOTTER WITH THE FUNDING, I'LL

ACCEPT THAT.
IF WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT OUT OF POCKET, I AGREE WITH YOU.
I HOPE THAT ALL WILL REMEMBER THAT DURING OUR BUDGET
DISCUSSION, THE FIRST THING I SAID IS WE NEED MORE STAFFING,
ESPECIALLY IN POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS TO THIS?
I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING YOU.
10:18:54AM >> I SAID THANK YOU.
APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
10:18:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
10:18:58AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE MOTION HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PRESENTATION IS THOROUGH AND
IT'S UPLOADED ENOUGH TIME FOR THE PUBLIC AND THIS COUNCIL
CAN REVIEW IT SO THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE WORKSHOP.
THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT POLICE DO AND HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
WHEN I SEE IT, I'LL KNOW RIGHT OFF IF IT'S STRUCTURED IN THE
WAY TO HIDE SOMETHING OR DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW
SOMETHING.
PLEASE STRUCTURE IT IN A WAY THE PUBLIC CAN UNDERSTAND IT.
STRUCTURE IT SO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU DO AND THE FUNCTION
AND HOW OPERATES FROM THE COMMAND LEVEL ALL THE WAY DOWN TO
ANYBODY IN PERSONNEL.
10:19:36AM >> GOTCHA.
10:19:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, CHIEF.
10:19:44AM >> HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

10:19:45AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU, TOO.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 7.
10:20:12AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
GOOD MORNING, CITY COUNCIL.
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY HERE BEFORE YOU ON ITEM
NUMBER 7.
I FORWARDED YOU A SUBSTITUTE RESOLUTION THAT RATIFIED THE
APPOINTMENT OF COUNCILMAN GUDES APPOINTEE, ALISON HEWITT,
AND THIS WAS REVIEWED.
THE DRAFT BY THE CHARTER -- EXCUSE ME, THE BUDGET ADVISORY
COMMITTEE, AND IT'S BEING PRESENTED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION,
COUNCIL.
10:20:39AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR ANY QUESTIONS TO THIS
RESOLUTION?
10:20:42AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SO MOVED.
10:20:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THE RESOLUTION -- I'M SORRY, COUNCILMAN
MIRANDA.
THE RESOLUTION THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US, STAFF HAD TALKED
ABOUT ADDING MS. HEWITT'S NAME TO IT.
IS THERE A SUBSTITUTE RESOLUTION?
10:20:56AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES.
THE CLERK DOES HAVE THE SUBSTITUTE, IS THAT CORRECT?
10:21:02AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MOVE THE SUBSTITUTE RESOLUTION.
10:21:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I HAVE A MOTION TO MOVE THE SUBSTITUTE
RESOLUTION BY --
10:21:05AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
IN THE ABSENCE OF MR. GUDES WHO WAS THE

POLICY MAKER ON THAT ONE.
10:21:05AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
ANY OBJECTIONS?
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 8.
10:21:20AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, COUNCIL.
ITEM NUMBER 8 IS REQUESTING A REPORT ON MY ADVICE REGARDING
CREATING AN ORDINANCE TO PROTECT ELECTED OFFICIALS SUED
UNDER CHAPTER 119.
COUNCIL, I HAVE HAD PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH CITY
ATTORNEY ANDREA ZELMAN ON THIS AS OF RECENT.
I WOULD SAY, COUNCIL, TO SHARE WITH YOU THAT THIS SUBJECT
IS, FRANKLY, PERSONAL TO ME.
I TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.
WHAT I AM ASKING FOR, COUNCIL, IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET
WITH EACH OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY BETWEEN NOW AND DECEMBER
1st.
IS IT DECEMBER 1st, MADAM CLERK?
THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING AND SET UP APPOINTMENTS WITH YOUR
STAFF TO TALK WITH YOU INDIVIDUALLY ABOUT THIS MOVING
FORWARD.
I'M REQUESTING THAT CONTINUANCE, PLEASE.
10:22:11AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MOVE TO CONTINUE ITEM NUMBER 8 UNTIL

DECEMBER 1st SO MR. SHELBY CAN MEET WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS
INDIVIDUALLY TO FURTHER DISCUSS THIS.
10:22:23AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SECOND.
10:22:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
ANY OBJECTION?
10:22:33AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.
10:22:35AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA, NUMBER 9 IS YOUR MOTION,
HOWEVER OUT OF COURTESY TO COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, WHO IS NOT
HERE AND WANTED TO HAVE A SPECIAL MEETING TO DISCUSS SOME OF
THESE THINGS, I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO
CONTINUE THIS UNTIL JANUARY 27th WHEN WE ARE GOING TO BE
HAVING A WORKSHOP TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS.
10:23:02AM >>LUIS VIERA:
SURE.
MY INTENT ON DOING THIS WAS TO -- FOR THE OBVIOUS, AS THE
MOTION STATED.
YEAH, I'M FINE WITH THAT.
I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO WORK THE RELEVANT PARTIES
ON WAYS, AS I'VE SEEN TODAY, HAVE BEEN DONE ON EFFICIENCY.
MYSELF STARTING, EVERYBODY CAN IMPROVE ON.
YES, SIR, MR. CHAIR.
GLAD TO DO THAT.
10:23:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.

ALL IN FAVOR?
IS THERE ANY OBJECTIONS?
THANK YOU.
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
10:23:40AM >>LUIS VIERA:
I MOVE ITEMS 10 THROUGH 22.
10:23:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:23:52AM >> AYE.
10:23:54AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU HAVE PARKS AND
RECREATION.
10:23:56AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
[INAUDIBLE]
10:23:59AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:24:06AM >> AYE.
10:24:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, WOULD YOU PLEASE DO
PUBLIC WORKS.
10:24:09AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ITEMS NUMBER 29 THROUGH
36.
10:24:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:24:18AM >> AYE.
10:24:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, YOU'VE GOT FINANCE.

10:24:22AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MOVE 37 THROUGH 42.
10:24:25AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:24:30AM >> AYE.
10:24:31AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, YOU HAVE BUILDING AND
ZONING.
10:24:34AM >>BILL CARLSON:
LIKE TO MOVE ITEMS 43 THROUGH 53.
10:24:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:24:47AM >> AYE.
10:24:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, YOU HAVE
TRANSPORTATION.
10:24:49AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I MOVE ITEMS 54 THROUGH 57.
10:24:55AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:25:02AM >> AYE.
10:25:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
10:25:04AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I WOULD LIKE TO SET ITEMS 58 AND 59 FOR
THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
ITEM 58 IS GOING TO BE FOR DECEMBER 8, 2022 AT 5:01 P.M.
AND ITEM 59 WILL BE DECEMBER 1st, 2022 AT 5:01 P.M.

10:25:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S GO WITH AGENDA 58.
FIRST, MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:25:24AM >> AYE.
10:25:25AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NUMBER 59, WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:25:31AM >> AYE.
10:25:31AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO OPEN PUBLIC HEARINGS.
MOTION MADE TO OPEN PUBLIC HEARINGS BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:25:40AM >> AYE.
10:25:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
10:25:42AM >> THAT'S ALL OF THEM.
10:25:44AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
UP UNTIL 1:30.
10:25:50AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YOU'RE NOT THERE FOR 10:30.
10:25:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
UP TO THE 9:30.
RULES AND PROCEDURES.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 60, FILE BF22-77365.
10:26:13AM >> GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR AND COUNCIL.
McLANE EVANS, ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
ITEM NUMBER 6 IS THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE

BROWNFIELD AREA DESIGNATION FOR THE MAIN STREET PARK.
THIS IS THE FINAL PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS BROWNFIELD AREA
DESIGNATION.
THE CITY OF TAMPA IS REQUESTING THAT THIS PROPERTY BE
DESIGNATED AS A BROWNFIELD AREA IN ORDER TO ASSIST WITH THE
ASSESSMENT AND REMEDIATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS THAT MAY
AFFECT THAT PROPERTY.
DETAILS OF THE DESIGNATION HAVE BEEN OUTLINED AND DOCUMENTED
IN THE STAFF REPORT ON MAIN STREET PROPOSED BROWNFIELD AREA
DESIGNATION WHICH IS AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC REVIEW IN THE
CLERK'S OFFICE.
CITY STAFF HAS DETERMINED THAT ALL STATUTORY AND PUBLIC
NOTICE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET AND RECOMMENDS THAT CITY
COUNCIL APPROVE THIS DESIGNATION.
10:26:58AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THE RESOLUTION?
10:27:05AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MOVE THE RESOLUTION NUMBER 60.
RESOLUTION FILE BF22-77365.
10:27:17AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING.
10:27:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WISHES
TO SPEAK TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 60, FILE BF22-77365?
SEEING NONE, DO WE HAVE ANYONE ONLINE?
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MOVE TO CLOSE.
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
THERE WAS A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA TO MOVE THE
RESOLUTION, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:27:45AM >> AYE.
10:27:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OPPOSED?
THANK YOU.
10:27:50AM >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
10:27:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM 61, FILE E2022-8 CHAPTER 24.
10:27:59AM >> JUSTIN VASKE, SENIOR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
THIS IS WITH REGARDS TO ITEM 61 ON THE AGENDA.
ON OCTOBER 6, 2022, CITY COUNCIL APPROVED A RESOLUTION
SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS RESOLUTION.
THIS RESOLUTION STATES THE CITY COUNCIL'S INTENT TO USE THE
UNIFORM METHOD OF LEVYING AND COLLECTING NON-AD VALOREM
ASSESSMENTS BY THE CITY OF TAMPA IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION
197.362 FLORIDA STATUTES.
FOR STREETLIGHTS ON A PORTION OF NORTH ROME AVENUE, LYING
WITHIN PORTIONS OF WOODLAWN PARK, A SUBDIVISION OF THE CITY
OF TAMPA.
SECTION 197.
3632 FLORIDA STATUTES REQUIRES THAT THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION
BE ADOPTED AT A PUBLIC HEARING, NOT AFTER THE HEARING IS
CLOSED, THEREFORE, PLEASE DO NOT CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING IN

CONNECTION WITH THIS ITEM UNTIL YOU HAVE VOTED ON THE
PROPOSED RESOLUTION.
IN THE SUMMER OF 2023, WE WILL BRING TO CITY COUNCIL A
RESOLUTION WHICH ADOPTS THE TAX ROLL FOR THIS ASSESSMENT.
THAT IS ALL.
I'M HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
10:28:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COUNCIL?
I SEE MR. MECHANIK IS THERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THIS, MR.
MECHANIK?
10:29:10AM >> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT.
I JUST WOULD RESPECTFULLY REQUEST COUNCIL'S APPROVAL.
I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
10:29:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
IS THERE -- EXCUSE ME, ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MECHANIK?
ANYONE IN CHAMBERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS?
I DO NOT SEE ANYONE ONLINE.
MOVE THE RESOLUTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO --
10:29:42AM >> DID WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING?
10:29:43AM >> YES.
10:29:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO MOVE THE RESOLUTION BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?

IS THERE ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:30:02AM >> AYE.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 62, FILE NUMBER CDD22-77670.
MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ.
10:30:20AM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIR AND CITY
COUNCIL.
SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ, SENIOR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
COUNCIL, THIS IS A SECOND READING ON AN ORDINANCE CREATING
THE K-BAR RANCH CDD 3.
THIS WAS REQUESTED -- ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CDD WAS REQUESTED
BY THE APPLICANTS, CRUZ AND DOUGLAS.
THEIR REPRESENTATIVE MAY BE ONLINE.
10:30:46AM >>THE CLERK:
MR. MACKEY IS ONLINE, HOWEVER, I AM NOT ABLE TO
ELEVATE HIM.
IF HE IS ON A CELL PHONE, IT WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO MOVE HIM
OVER.
10:30:57AM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
THIS DID RECEIVE UNANIMOUS APPROVAL
BY CITY COUNCIL ON FIRST READING.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
10:31:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. JOHNSON VELEZ?
DO WE HAVE AN APPLICANT ONLINE?
MR. MACKEY, ARE YOU THERE?

10:31:20AM >>THE CLERK:
I'M NOT ABLE TO ELEVATE HIM.
NOT SURE IF IT IS A WEB ISSUE OR IF HE IS ON THE CELL PHONE.
10:31:27AM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
IT IS A LEGISLATIVE MATTER, COUNCIL.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE ABLE TO --
10:31:39AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES
TO SPEAK TO AGENDA ITEM 62, FILE NUMBER CDD22-77670.
10:31:47AM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
10:31:49AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MADAM, ARE YOU WANTING TO SPEAK TO THIS
AGENDA ITEM?
PLEASE COME FORWARD TO THE PODIUM.
10:31:56AM >> [NOT SPEAKING AT A MICROPHONE]
10:32:00AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MA'AM, WE'VE ALREADY HAD PUBLIC COMMENT.
UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK TO A SPECIFIC AGENDA ITEM, OUR
PUBLIC COMMENT HAS BEEN OVER.
10:32:12AM >> I AM A LITTLE LATE.
OKAY.
THAT'S FINE.
10:32:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
10:32:21AM >>LUIS VIERA:
I CAN SPEAK TO HER OUTSIDE.
10:32:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE ANYONE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO
AGENDA ITEM 62, FILE CDD22-77670?
10:32:38AM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
10:32:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?

PLACE YOUR VOTES AND RECORD.
I'M SORRY.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, CAN YOU READ AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 62?
10:33:03AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ITEM 62, FILE
CDD22-77670.
ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION.
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF TAMPA,
FLORIDA, ESTABLISHING THE K-BAR RANCH III COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, GENERALLY LOCATED NORTH AND EAST OF
MEADOWPOINTE BOULEVARD EXTENSION, WEST OF MORRIS BRIDGE ROAD
AND SOUTH OF THE HILLSBOROUGH/PASCO COUNTY LINE, COMPRISING
372.204 ACRES OF LAND, MORE OR LESS, FOR THE PURPOSE OF
MANAGING AND DELIVERING BASIC COMMUNITY INFRASTRUCTURE
IMPROVEMENTS; SAID DISTRICT TO BE LOCATED ENTIRELY WITHIN
THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, THE SAME BEING MORE
PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2, HEREOF, PURSUANT TO
CHAPTER 190, FLORIDA STATUTES; NAMING THE DISTRICT AND THE
INITIAL MEMBERS OF THE DISTRICT'S BOARD OF SUPERVISOR;
CONSENTING TO THE EXERCISE OF CERTAIN SPECIAL POWERS BY THE
DISTRICT BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, PURSUANT TO SUBSECTION
190.012 (2), FLORIDA STATUTES; PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY;
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:34:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
PLACE YOUR VOTES AND RECORD.

10:34:23AM >>THE CLERK:
THE MOTION CARRIED WITH UNANIMOUSLY WITH VIERA
BEING ABSENT AT VOTE AND HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
10:34:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IT IS NOT SHOWING UP ON MONITORS.
10:34:33AM >> SHE SAID IT ON THE RECORD.
10:34:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THERE WE GO.
10:34:47AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THIS A NEW SETUP?
10:34:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
THERE WEREN'T SEVEN PEOPLE WHO VOTED.
PLEASE, MAY WE HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE?
10:35:01AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:35:01AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:35:05AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:35:06AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:35:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:35:09AM >>THE CLERK:
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH VIERA BEING
ABSENT AT VOTE AND HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
10:35:15AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 63, FILE NUMBER CIP & CIS 2023-2027.
10:35:37AM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
SENIOR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF ON THE
LINE.
COUNCIL, THIS IS AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT
UPDATES AND REPLACES THE EXISTING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
SECTION BY REPLACING THE FY 2022 THROUGH FY 2026 CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT SECTION SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS WITH UPDATED 2023

THROUGH '27 SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS.
THIS DID RECEIVE UNANIMOUS APPROVAL BY CITY COUNCIL ON FIRST
READING.
10:36:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FOR STAFF?
DO WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE HERE?
10:36:14AM >> DIEGO GUERRA, PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF.
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST AN ANNUAL UPDATE TO THE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT SECTION THAT REPLACES THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS
SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS.
IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SECTION WITHIN THE COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN, THIS IS AN ANNUAL UPDATE.
IT IS ALLOWED TO BE CONDUCTED BY ORDINANCE PER CHAPTER 163
OF FLORIDA STATUTE.
IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS REGARDING THE UPDATE, I'M
AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
I DO WANT TO MENTION THAT THE SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS IS
PROJECTS WITHIN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM THAT
ADDRESS LEVELS OF SERVICE.
THOSE PROJECTS WERE APPROVED BY COUNCIL AND WERE BROUGHT TO
YOU WITH THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM, AND THE SCHEDULE
OF PROJECTS ARE THOSE PROJECTS WITHIN THE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM THAT ADDRESS LEVELS OF SERVICE ONLY.
10:37:17AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 63?

NO ONE IS REGISTERED.
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
10:37:38AM >> AYE.
10:37:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
10:37:39AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I HAVE AN ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND
ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE IMAGINE 2040 TAMPA
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SECTION, BY
REPLACING THE FISCAL YEAR 2022 THROUGH FISCAL YEAR 2026
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SECTION SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS WITH THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023 THROUGH FISCAL YEAR 2027 CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT SECTION SCHEDULE OF PROJECTS; PROVIDING FOR
REPEAL OF ALL ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT; PROVIDING FOR
SEVERABILITY; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:38:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN.
PLACE YOUR VOTES AND RECORD.
CAN WE GO WITH ROLL CALL, PLEASE?
10:38:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:38:39AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:38:39AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

10:38:40AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:38:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:38:45AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH VIERA BEING
ABSENT AT VOTE AND HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
10:38:55AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO OPEN
ITEMS 71, 10:30 PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN WE HAVE TO SWEAR
EVERYBODY IN.
10:39:05AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, SECONDED
BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
THANK YOU.
THAT WAY WE CAN SWEAR EVERYONE IN AT THE SAME TIME.
ANYONE GIVING ANY TESTIMONY TO ANY OTHER AGENDA ITEMS TODAY,
WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND TO BE SWORN IN?
[OATH ADMINISTERED BY THE CLERK]
10:39:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 64, FILE NUMBER VAC 22-19.
MR. SAMONS.
10:39:48AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
ROSS SAMONS, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
PRESENTING FILE NUMBER VAC 22-19.
THIS IS A PROPOSED VACATING REQUEST FOR SECOND READING AND
ADOPTION.
THE PROPOSED VACATING REQUEST TO VACATE THE ALLEYWAY LOCATED
NORTH OF OHIO AVENUE, SOUTH OF INDIANA AVENUE, EAST OF
POPLAR AVENUE AND WEST OF MYRTLE AVENUE.

I'M AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
10:40:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SAMONS?
10:40:12AM >> JAMES HENNESSY, 812 WEST INDIANA.
I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.
I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
10:40:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PETITIONER?
THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TO THIS?
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
THANK YOU.
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
10:40:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN, FILE NUMBER VAC 22-19,
ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION.
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA, VACATING,
CLOSING, DISCONTINUING AND ABANDONING THAT ALLEYWAY LOCATED
NORTH OF OHIO AVENUE, SOUTH OF INDIANA AVENUE, EAST OF
POPLAR AVENUE AND WEST OF MYRTLE AVENUE WITHIN THE PLAT OF
NORTH RIVERSIDE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY,
FLORIDA, AS MORE FULLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2 HEREOF,
SUBJECT TO CERTAIN COVENANTS, CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS AS
MORE PARTICULARLY SET FORTH HEREIN; PROVIDING FOR
ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES OF VIOLATIONS; PROVIDING FOR
DEFINITIONS, INTERPRETATIONS, REPEALING CONFLICTS; PROVIDING

FOR SEVERABILITY; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:41:16AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES AND SECONDED
BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
I DON'T EVEN WANT TO TRY A THIRD TIME.
LET'S DO ROLL CALL VOTE.
10:41:24AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:41:25AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:41:26AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:41:27AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:41:28AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:41:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:41:31AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH HURTAK BEING
ABSENT.
10:41:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 65, FILE NUMBER VAC 22-24.
10:41:42AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
ROSS SAMONS, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION,
PRESENTING VAC 22-24.
PROPOSED VACATING REQUEST FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION.
THIS IS PROPOSED VACATING REQUEST IS FOR PORTIONS OF ARCH
STREET AND EDISON AVENUE RIGHTS-OF-WAY LOCATED NORTH OF CASS
STREET, SOUTH OF LASALLE STREET, EAST OF MUNRO STREET AND
WEST OF NORTH BOULEVARD.
I'M AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
10:42:02AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SAMONS?

PETITIONER?
10:42:08AM >> I APOLOGIZE.
I DID SPEAK WITH THE APPLICANT THIS MORNING.
MR. HARDEN IS OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND MS. CATHERINE COYLE HAD
A FAMILY MEDICAL EMERGENCY.
SHE DID SPEAK WITH ME THIS MORNING.
AND SHE IS UNAVAILABLE AT THIS TIME.
10:42:25AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE IN CHAMBERS WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TO AGENDA
ITEM NUMBER 65?
10:42:33AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SO MOVE TO CLOSE.
10:42:35AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
10:42:40AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
FILE NUMBER 65, VAC 22-24, AN ORDINANCE
BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, AN
ORDINANCE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA, VACATING, CLOSING,
DISCONTINUING AND ABANDONING THOSE PORTIONS OF ARCH STREET
AND EDISON AVENUE RIGHTS-OF-WAY LOCATED NORTH OF CASS
STREET, SOUTH OF LASALLE STREET, EAST OF MUNRO STREET AND
WEST OF NORTH BOULEVARD WITHIN THE PLATS OF MAP OF MUNRO AND
CLEWIS ADDITION TO WEST TAMPA AND KNOWLES SUBDIVISION, IN
THE CITY OF TAMPA, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA, AS MORE
FULLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2 HEREOF, SUBJECT TO CERTAIN

COVENANTS, CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS AS MORE PARTICULARLY
SET FORTH HEREIN; PROVIDING FOR ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES
FOR VIOLATIONS; PROVIDING FOR DEFINITIONS, INTERPRETATIONS
AND REPEALING CONFLICTS; PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY;
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:43:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ROLL CALL VOTE.
10:43:35AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:43:35AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:43:36AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:43:38AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:43:39AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:43:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:43:41AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH HURTAK BEING
ABSENT.
10:43:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM 66, FILE NUMBER REZ-22-124.
10:43:52AM >>ANNIE BARNES:
ANNIE BARNES, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
ITEM NUMBER 66 IS REZ-22-124 BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND
READING AND ADOPTION FOR 1701 EAST BUSCH BOULEVARD.
THE REQUEST IS TO REZONE THE PROPERTY FROM IG, INDUSTRIAL
GENERAL, TO CI, COMMERCIAL INTENSIVE.
I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
10:44:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BARNES?

THANK YOU.
PETITIONER?
10:44:17AM >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
NAME IS JARICE BARBEE, LAND USE PLANNER.
10:44:23AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WOULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE
SWORN IN.
10:44:26AM >>THE CLERK:
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU
ARE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
10:44:31AM >> I DO.
10:44:32AM >>THE CLERK:
THANK YOU.
10:44:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
PLEASE PROCEED.
10:44:34AM >> SORRY.
JARICE BARBEE, LAND USE PLANNER WITH AVID GROUP, 2300 CURLEW
ROAD, PALM HARBOR, FLORIDA.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING US TO BE HERE
TODAY.
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING AS PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED AND I'M HERE
IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS.
10:44:55AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PETITIONER?
SEEING NONE, IS THERE ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO
SPEAK TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 66?
10:45:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?

10:45:13AM >> AYE.
10:45:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:45:16AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ITEM NUMBER 66, FILE
REZ-22-124, ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND
ADOPTION.
AN ORDINANCE REZONING PROPERTY IN THE GENERAL VICINITY OF
1701 EAST BUSCH BOULEVARD, IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA,
AND MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 1, FROM ZONING
DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION, IG, INDUSTRIAL GENERAL, TO CI,
COMMERCIAL INTENSIVE, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:45:39AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ROLL CALL VOTE.
10:45:44AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:45:45AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:45:46AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:45:48AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:45:51AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:45:52AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH GUDES BEING
ABSENT AT VOTE AND HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
10:45:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 67, FILE NUMBER AB2-22-17.
10:46:05AM >>ANNIE BARNES:
ANNIE BARNES, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
ITEM NUMBER 67 IS AB2-22-17 BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND
READING AND ADOPTION FOR A SPECIAL USE 2 FOR ALCOHOLIC

BEVERAGE SALES FOR A RESTAURANT FOR ON PREMISES CONSUMPTION
OF BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR LOCATED AT 951 EAST 7TH AVENUE.
SITE PLANS WERE DROPPED OFF AT CITY HALL EARLIER THIS WEEK.
I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
10:46:27AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BARNES?
PETITIONER?
10:46:31AM >> GOOD MORNING, CITY COUNCIL.
MY NAME IS JANE GRAHAM.
I REPRESENT LOS TOPOS AND NICOLE THOMPSON.
WE APPRECIATE THE RECOMMENDATION, AND WE'RE HERE FOR ANY
QUESTIONS.
10:46:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PETITIONER?
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE CHAMBERS THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO
THIS?
NO ONE IS ONLINE EITHER.
10:46:51AM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
10:46:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
10:47:01AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES, SIR.
I MOVE AN ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND READING AND
ADOPTION.
AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT S-2, FOR
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES RESTAURANT CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES

ONLY AND MAKING LAWFUL THE SALE OF BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF
ALCOHOLIC CONTENT, BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR, ON THAT CERTAIN
LOT, PLOT OR TRACT OF LAND LOCATED ON 951 EAST 7TH AVENUE,
TAMPA, FLORIDA, AS MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3,
PROVIDING THAT ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN
CONFLICT ARE REPEALED, REPEALING ORDINANCE 2007-195.
10:47:33AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ROLL CALL VOTE.
10:47:37AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:47:39AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:47:40AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:47:41AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:47:42AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:47:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:47:44AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH HURTAK BEING
ABSENT.
10:47:49AM >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
10:47:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 68, FILE NUMBER AB
2-22-18.
10:47:58AM >>ANNIE BARNES:
THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
ANNIE BARNES, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
ITEM NUMBER 68 IS AB2-22-18 BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND
READING AND ADOPTION FOR A SPECIAL USE 2 FOR ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGE SALES FOR A LARGE VENUE FOR CONSUMPTION ON

PREMISES, OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION OF BEER, WINE, AND
LIQUOR, LOCATED AT 3924 WEST SPRUCE STREET.
SITE PLANS WERE DROPPED OFF AT CITY HALL EARLIER THIS WEEK.
I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
10:48:23AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BARNES?
PETITIONER?
10:48:28AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
CHRIS BERG WITH THE LAW OFFICES OF GRAY ROBINSON.
401 EAST JACKSON STREET, SUITE 2700.
WE JUST ASK BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING TO MAKE SOME
SLIGHT CHANGES TO THE SITE PLAN.
WE DID THAT AND DROPPED THEM OFF AT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UNLESS COUNCIL HAS ANY QUESTIONS, WE ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL.
10:48:48AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR PETITIONER?
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TO THIS?
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
10:49:02AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I HAVE AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SU-2 FOR
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES LARGE VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES
AND PACKAGE SALES/OFF PREMISES CONSUMPTION AND MAKING LAWFUL
THE SALES OF BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF ALCOHOLIC CONTENT,
BEER, WINE, AND LIQUOR, AT OR FROM THAT CERTAIN LOT, PLOT OR

TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT 3924 WEST SPRUCE STREET, AS MORE
PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3, PROVIDING THAT ALL
ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED,
REPEALING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2019-92; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE
DATE.
10:49:39AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO,
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ROLL CALL VOTE.
10:49:39AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:49:43AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:49:44AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:49:45AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:49:45AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:49:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:49:47AM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH HURTAK BEING
ABSENT.
10:49:51AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 69, FILE AB2-22-19.
10:49:59AM >>ANNIE BARNES:
THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
ANNIE BARNES, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
ITEM NUMBER 69 IS AB2-22-19 BEING PRESENTED FOR SECOND
READING AND ADOPTION FOR SPECIAL USE 2 FOR ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGE SALES FOR LARGE VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES AND
PACKAGE SALES/OFF PREMISES CONSUMPTION, BEER, WINE AND
LIQUOR, 450 CHANNELSIDE DRIVE.

PLANS DROPPED OFF EARLIER THIS WEEK.
10:50:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BARNES?
PETITIONER?
10:50:27AM >> GOOD MORNING.
JULIA MANDELL WITH THE LAW FIRM OF GRAY ROBINSON, 610 EAST
JACKSON STREET.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER.
I UNDERSTAND THAT MS. HURTAK IS IN TRAVEL AND IN FLIGHT
RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT SHE MAY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CALL IN
AT 1:30.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, I THINK IF COUNCIL WOULD INDULGE US
HOLDING THIS UNTIL 1:30, THAT MAY BE AN APPROACH WE CAN
TAKE.
10:51:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I HAVE ONE QUESTION.
MAYBE IT MIGHT RESOLVE THE ISSUE.
I VOTED NO AGAINST THIS.
MY SPECIFIC REASONING WAS FOR THE PACKAGE SALES.
10:51:18AM >> I UNDERSTAND THAT.
10:51:18AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AND THIS IS GOING TO BE A MASSIVE, IN MY
OPINION, A MASSIVE PLACE, WHICH IS NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.
HOWEVER, IF -- COUNCIL, DO YOU WISH TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE
I PROCEED?
10:51:32AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT MAY BE
APPROPRIATE TO DISCUSS IT NOW AS THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OPEN.
10:51:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OPEN.

THAT'S THE REASON WHY I AM DISCUSSING THIS.
MY POINT BEING, HAS THE APPLICANT DECIDED TO CHANGE THEIR
MIND ON THE PACKAGE SALES PART OF THIS?
10:51:56AM >> IF I COULD JUST TAKE JUST A MOMENT TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE I
REALLY DID JUST GET INVOLVED IN THIS.
IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE REASON THE PACKAGE SALES WAS
INCLUDED AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION IS BECAUSE THERE WAS
SOME CONFUSION OVER THE STATE LAW AS IT RELATED TO TO-GO
ALCOHOL BEVERAGE WITH FOOD.
UNDER STATE LAW, PACKAGE SALES ISN'T ALLOWED UNDER THE STATE
LICENSE AS IT RELATES TO RESTAURANT SALES.
THE APPLICANT WAS SIMPLY SEEKING THE OPPORTUNITY HAVE TO-GO
SALES AS PART OF THE STATE LICENSE AND HAS NO INTENT TO DO
WHAT I CONSIDER A RETAIL PACKAGE ESTABLISHMENT.
THE PROBLEM IS, BECAUSE I'VE SPENT SOME TIME PONDERING THIS
AND TALKING WITH LEGAL AND WITH STAFF ABOUT IT.
IS FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE
TITLE OF THE ORDINANCE, THE ONLY OPTION IS TO TAKE THIS BACK
TO FIRST READING.
AND THIS -- UNFORTUNATELY, THIS APPLICATION WAS OUT FOR A
LONG TIME AND THEY HAVE TO GET -- THEY ARE IN CONSTRUCTION
NOW.
FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE, THAT WOULD BE A CHALLENGE.
AND I CAN HAVE THEM SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
I CAN SAY FOR THE RECORD THERE IS NO INTENT FOR THAT TO BE A

PACKAGE SALES.
I HAVE ALSO DISCUSSED THIS WITH THE UNDERLYING PROPERTY
OWNER, WHICH IS SPP, AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE GIVEN ME A
LETTER OF SUPPORT.
THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION TO DO PACKAGE SALES.
IT WAS JUST, I THINK, A MISCOMMUNICATION AS IT RELATED TO
THE STATE LAW.
10:53:23AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE ALL KNOW ABOUT GOOD INTENTIONS.
10:53:28AM >> SURE.
10:53:28AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT IN WRITING.
HAVING SAID THAT IS THERE ANY --
[ENCODER DROP]
[ENCODER DROP]
10:54:16AM >>ANNIE BARNES:
I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
10:54:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BARNES?
THANK YOU.
PETITIONER?
10:54:28AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE CAN HEAR YOU BUT WE HAVE TO SEE YOU.
10:54:41AM >> GOOD MORNING.
10:54:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE NEED BOTH OF YOU TO BE SWORN IN.
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HANDS TO BE SWORN IN.
10:54:47AM >>THE CLERK:
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY
YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
10:54:52AM >> I DO, YES.
10:54:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.

PETITIONER, PLEASE.
10:54:56AM >> GOOD MORNING.
I'M ELIZABETH KELLER HERE FROM SHUMAKER, LOOP & KENDRICK,
101 EAST KENNEDY BOULEVARD, SUITE 2800, TAMPA, FLORIDA,
33602.
WE REST ON OUR PRESENTATION ON OCTOBER 27.
I'M HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS, AND WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR
APPROVAL.
10:55:12AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PETITIONER?
ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TO AGENDA ITEM
NUMBER 70?
I DO NOT SEE ANYONE ONLINE.
10:55:22AM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
10:55:22AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
10:55:32AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
AB2-22-24, ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR
SECOND READING AND ADOPTION, AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A
SPECIAL USE PERMIT, S URBAN-2, FOR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES,
SMALL VENUE, CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES AND PACKAGES SALES/OFF
PREMISES CONSUMPTION, AND MAKING LAWFUL THE SALE OF
BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF ALCOHOLIC CONTENT, BEER, WINE AND
LIQUOR, AT OR FROM THAT CERTAIN LOT, PLOT OR TRACT OF LAND

LOCATED AT 1602 WEST SNOW AVENUE, AS MORE PARTICULARLY
DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3, PROVIDING THAT ALL ORDINANCES OR
PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED, REPEALING
ORDINANCE NUMBER 2021-43, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
10:56:12AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
10:56:15AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
10:56:16AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
10:56:17AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
10:56:18AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
10:56:21AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
10:56:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
10:56:22AM >>THE CLERK:
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY WITH HURTAK
BEING ABSENT.
10:56:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE'RE NOW GOING TO OUR 10:30 HEARINGS.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 71, FILE NUMBER VAC 22-14.
10:56:36AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
RON WIGGINTON, LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
THIS IS A CONTINUATION WITH THE FIRST HEARING THAT WAS HELD
ON OCTOBER 20.
AS A RECAP, I WOULD LIKE TO BASICALLY GO OVER WHAT HAPPENED
DURING THAT HEARING.
PRESENTATIONS WERE MADE BY MYSELF, MR. ROSS SAMONS AND
MR. STEVE MICHELINI ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT.

AFTER THAT, YOU HELD PUBLIC COMMENTS WHEREBY SEVEN SPEAKERS
SPOKE.
DURING PUBLIC COMMENTS, THERE WERE SOME ISSUES THAT WERE
PRESENTED REGARDING WHAT ACTIONS OR INACTION THAT MAY HAVE
BEEN TAKEN BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT, NEIGHBORHOOD
ENHANCEMENT DEPARTMENT AND WHAT EFFORTS WERE MADE BY THE
CITY MOBILITY DEPARTMENT TO OPEN UP THE ALLEYWAY.
COUNCIL HAS SOME QUESTIONS FOR STAFF WHO WERE NOT PRESENT AT
THAT TIME.
SO I REQUESTED ALL THE STAFF MEMBERS THAT WERE MENTIONED TO
BE PRESENT TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO EMPHASIZE OR REMIND CITY COUNCIL
THAT THE PRIMARY ISSUE HERE IS WHETHER THE VACATING OF THIS
ALLEYWAY SERVES A -- SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST, AND THERE
ARE FOUR PRIMARY FACTORS TO CONSIDER WHEN MAKING THAT
DETERMINATION, AND THEY INCLUDE, WILL THE VACATING ALLEVIATE
OR RELIEVE THE PUBLIC FROM THE COST OF MAINTAINING THE
RIGHT-OF-WAY?
WILL THE VACATING ALLEVIATE A PUBLIC NUISANCE OR CURTAIL
CRIMINAL ACTIVITY?
WILL THE VACATING FOSTER REDEVELOPMENT?
AND WILL AN ABUTTING PROPERTY OWNER'S ACCESS TO THEIR
PROPERTY BE COMPLETELY CUT OFF OR SUBSTANTIALLY DIMINISHED?
BUT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND CITY COUNCIL THAT PUBLIC
COMMENTS WERE NOT CLOSED.

IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF HOW WE GO FROM HERE, WHETHER YOU
WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MR. SAMONS GIVE A QUICK SUMMARY OF HIS
PRESENTATION.
WHETHER YOU WANT TO JUMP RIGHT INTO PUBLIC COMMENTS, OR
WHETHER YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF NOW THAT YOU WOULD
LIKE FOR THEM TO ADDRESS.
10:58:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHAT IS THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL?
10:58:32AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HEAR THE PRESENTATION BY MR. SAMONS BECAUSE
IT'S BEEN A WHILE.
10:58:39AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SAMONS.
10:58:40AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
ROSS SAMONS, DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION,
PRESENTING FILE VAC 22-14.
PROPOSED VACATING REQUEST IS TO VACATE THE ALLEY LYING NORTH
OF STROUD AVENUE, SOUTH OF CHICAGO AVENUE, EAST OF CAROLINA
AVENUE, AND WEST OF MOODY AVENUE.
THE APPLICATION WAS ORIGINALLY FILED MARCH 16 OF 2022.
THE APPLICANT OWNS PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF THE ALLEY
REQUESTED TO BE VACATED.
APPLICANT'S REASON FOR THE APPLICATION IS TO CLEAN UP THE
UNUSED ALLEY.
ALLEY WAS CREATED BY SUBDIVISION PLAT.
EXISTING RIGHT-OF-WAY IS APPROXIMATELY 7,300 SQUARE FEET.
THE ALLEY IN YELLOW, WEST TO EAST, NORTH TO SOUTH.
HERE IS STROUD, CHICAGO AVENUE, CAROLINA AVENUE, AND MOODY
IS HERE.

THIS IS THE CITY RIGHT-OF-WAY ALLEY SHEET SHOWING THE ALLEY
IN PINK HERE.
AND IT SHOWS PREVIOUSLY VACATED RIGHTS-OF-WAY IN THE PAST
HERE, HERE, SOUTH OF STROUD, AND ALSO NORTH OF CHICAGO
AVENUE HERE.
HERE IS THE ORIGINAL PLAT.
DEDICATED THE ALLEYWAY IN BLOCK TWO OF CB SHAW'S.
THIS IS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT IS REQUESTED TO BE VACATED.
HERE IS CHICAGO AVENUE SUBDIVISION.
NORTH OF THE ALLEY THAT'S REQUESTED TO BE VACATED.
AGAIN, THE BOUNDARIES OF THIS SUBDIVISION, THE NORTH
BOUNDARY HERE, SOUTH BOUNDARY IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE
EXISTING RIGHT-OF-WAY.
THE APPLICANT'S PROPERTY LOOKING NORTH FROM STROUD AVENUE.
THIS IS THE NORTH AND SOUTH SECTION OF THE ALLEY REQUESTED
TO BE VACATED LOOKING NORTH FROM STROUD AVENUE.
THIS IS LOOKING EAST FROM CAROLINA AVENUE IN THE GENERAL
AREA -- AND THE GENERAL AREA OF THE ALLEYWAY IS HERE.
STAFF HAS NO OBJECTIONS TO THE VACATING REQUEST.
EASEMENT RESERVATIONS ARE NEEDED FOR WASTEWATER, STORMWATER,
TECO, FRONTIER AND SPECTRUM.
NATURAL RESOURCES COMPLY WITH CHAPTER 27 IN REGARD TO TREE
PRESERVATION AND SITE DESIGN FOR ANY IMPROVEMENTS.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
I'M AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

11:01:51AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SAMONS?
11:02:06AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
AS A SUPPLEMENT TO MR. ROSS' PRESENTATION, THE STORMWATER
EASEMENT IS NO LONGER NEEDED.
THE WATER DEPARTMENT HAS REVISITED THAT ISSUE AND DECLARED
THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO HAVE THE EASEMENT.
BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING, THAT RESERVATION WILL BE
REMOVED FROM THE ORDINANCE.
11:02:27AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
DO WE HAVE THE PETITIONER HERE?
11:02:37AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
STEVE MICHELINI.
AS THE STAFF AND THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS ALREADY POINTED OUT,
THERE'S NO LONGER A PUBLIC PURPOSE THAT'S BEING SERVED BY
THIS ALLEY.
IT DOES FACILITATE ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT ON STROUD FOR
REDEVELOPMENT OF SOME PROPERTIES ON THE WEST END OF THE
ALLEY OF WHAT IS CURRENTLY THE ALLEY.
ALSO, IT PROPOSES, OR AT LEAST IT WILL CAUSE THE CITY TO
HAVE MAINTENANCE ISSUES AND COSTS THAT ARE NOT ASSOCIATED
WITH AN ALLEY THAT'S OBSTRUCTED AND IS UNUSED.
THE PROPERTY ON THE NORTH SIDE WAS REPLATTED IN 1987, AND
DURING THAT REPLATTING PROCESS, THEY DID NOT INCLUDE THE
ALLEY, WHICH AS STAFF HAS POINTED OUT, DID NOT INCLUDE THE
ALLEY TO THE SOUTH, WHICH ONLY NOW SERVICES THE PROPERTIES
ALONG STROUD.

IT DOES NOT SERVICE IN A PLAT SENSE, DOES NOT SERVICE THE
PROPERTY ON THE NORTH SIDE, WHICH IS CHICAGO.
I SHOWED YOU A NUMBER OF PICTURES AND THE STAFF HAS ALREADY
POINTED OUT TO YOU, AGAIN, THAT THE ALLEY IS OBSTRUCTED.
IT'S UNUSED.
THE EASEMENTS WILL BE RESERVED FOR THE VARIOUS UTILITIES.
SO THAT WILL CONTINUE.
THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES AND THE
HARDSHIPS CREATED BY THE DESIGN OF THE TOWN HOUSES.
THOSE ARE SELF-IMPOSED HARDSHIPS AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH
THE ALLEY VACATING ITSELF.
THERE'S ONLY ONE GATE CURRENTLY FROM THE NORTH SIDE THAT
ACCESSES THE ALLEY, AND THE REMAINING OF THE PROPERTIES ARE
ALL FENCED IN.
THERE IS AN ELEVATED CONCRETE MASONRY WALL ALONG THE ALLEY
ON THE NORTH SIDE.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE'S A RESERVATION FOR A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT AND STORMWATER RESERVATION ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 20
FEET.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE I CAN ADD TO YOU.
THE STAFF IS SUPPORTING THIS AS OPPOSED TO IF THEY HAD
CONCERNS OR OBJECTIONS, IT WOULDN'T BE BEFORE YOU IN THIS
MANNER.
WE ARE RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING THAT YOU PROCEED WITH THE
VACATING OF THIS AND THAT WE WILL RESERVE THE EASEMENTS AS

REQUESTED BY THE CITY.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE OR I CAN GO
THROUGH THE REST OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE'VE PRESENTED TO
YOU PREVIOUSLY.
HOWEVER, I'LL LEAVE IT UP TO THE COUNCIL.
WE BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE MET ALL THE CRITERIA ESTABLISHED BY
THE CITY REGARDING THE VACATING.
THEY CONCUR THAT IT IS UNUSED AND CERTAINLY THE COST OF
MAINTAINING THAT.
I'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS WITH TRANSPORTATION.
THEY HAVE NOT INTENTION WHATSOEVER OF IMPROVING THIS ALLEY
AREA IF IT REMAINS OPEN.
11:05:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
IS THERE ANYONE IN CHAMBERS THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO AGENDA
ITEM NUMBER 71?
11:06:10AM >> GOOD MORNING.
MY NAME IS KIM PRICE.
I'M AT 2410 WEST CHICAGO AVENUE.
THE STROUD OWNERS WEIGHED IN ON THEIR GENERAL FEELING
REGARDING THE ALLEY, BUT WHAT WE CHOOSE TO DO OR NOT DO ON
OUR PROPERTY, IT'S JUST NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
AND WHAT TRANSPIRES ON OUR SIDE OF THE FENCE IS ALSO NONE OF
THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT WE DESERVE SPACE BETWEEN THE PROPERTIES BECAUSE WE DON'T
WANT THE OBVIOUS LIABILITY OR THE BURDEN ASSOCIATED WITH

STROUD OWNERS USING OUR FENCE AS THEIR OWN.
WE DESERVE ACCESS TO THE REAR OF OUR PROPERTIES FOR REPAIR,
REMODELING, DELIVERIES, ACCESS TO UTILITIES OR WHATEVER WE
WANT.
OUR TOWNHOMES ARE ATTACHED.
THAT ALLEY WAS BROUGHT IN FOR OUR USE.
WHETHER WE USE IT ALL THE TIME OR WE USE IT FREQUENTLY OR
INFREQUENTLY DOES NOT MATTER.
WITHOUT IT, WE HAVE ZERO ACCESS, WHICH IS NUMBER 4 ON THE
CITY'S CRITERIA, WHICH IS WHAT IS THE HARDSHIP THAT IT WILL
DO TO US?
WE WILL HAVE ONE ENTRANCE IN AND OUT OF OUR FRONT PROPERTY.
WE ARE ATTACHED.
I WON'T ELABORATE, BUT THE STROUD OWNERS HAVE SAID, YOU
KNOW, WE'RE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU ACCESS.
SO I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO JUST LOOK AT EXHIBIT A WHICH IS
THE ONE AND ONLY COMMUNICATION INITIATED BY A STROUD
HOMEOWNER TO ME IN REGARD TO THE REMOVAL OF THE TREE, WHICH
WAS NOT MINE NOR ON MY PROPERTY.
I'LL LET YOU DECIDE IF THIS TONE, THE INTENT OF THE EXCHANGE
AND IF THIS WOULD GIVE YOU ANY POSITIVE FEELINGS ABOUT THEIR
WILLINGNESS TO BE HELPFUL GIVEN ON HOW THEY FEEL THE ENTIRE
HOOD APPARENTLY FEELS.
AND HEAVEN FORBID I NEED ACCESS TO DO SOMETHING THEY DON'T
WANT ME TO DO.

WELL, WE DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, SO WE'RE NOT GOING
TO LET YOU GO.
THIS IS THE CONVERSATION THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME.
I'M IN GREEN, BY THE WAY.
ALL OF THE VERBAL VOLLEYBALL THAT I'VE DONE WITH STROUD,
IT'S IN FRONT OF YOU IF YOU WANT TO READ IT.
BUT THEY ARE GRASPING AT STRAWS.
THEY ARE BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS BECAUSE AT NO TIME DID THEY
BOTHER TO ASK FOR PERMISSION OR PERMITS REGARDING THE
STRUCTURES OR THE ENCROACHMENTS IN THE ALLEYWAY.
IF ANYTHING, THEY ARE PAINTING THEMSELVES BENEVOLENT IN
ALLOWING US ACCESS.
I WOULD CHALLENGE ANYBODY HERE, ANYBODY IN THE CITY OF TAMPA
WHO IS A FEE SIMPLE OWNER THAT CANNOT ACCESS THEIR
BACKYARDS.
WE'RE NOT AN HOA.
WE ARE NOT CONDOS.
WE OWN OUR PROPERTY.
CHICAGO AVENUE RESIDENTS, WE'RE NOW IN THE POSITION OF
DEFENDING OURSELVES.
WE'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG.
WE'VE BROKEN NO CITY OR COUNTY LAWS.
WE'VE COMMITTED NO ILLEGAL ACTS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE VACATION GOT TRACTION WHEN I PERSONALLY
HAVE TRIED, OBVIOUSLY UNSUCCESSFUL, TO REGAIN ACCESS TO THE

ALLEY LONG BEFORE CHAMPA BAY CAME AROUND.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PLACEMENT OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES
IS UNLAWFUL, PERMITS WERE NOT ISSUED BECAUSE -- WE WOULD
JUST ASK THAT YOU NOT ONLY VOTE NO TO VACATING THE ALLEY BUT
CITING THE STROUD AVENUE HOMEOWNERS FOR THEIR ENCROACHMENT
AND ENFORCING COMPLIANCE.
I BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE HERE THAT CAN ATTEST TO WHAT
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.
ANY QUESTIONS?
11:09:05AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I JUST HAVE ONE.
FROM THE LAST TIME WE HEARD THIS, IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME,
THE FENCE IS --
11:09:15AM >> WE HAVE A REMOVABLE VINYL FENCE, CORRECT.
WHAT I LOOK AT --
11:09:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MAY I FINISH MY QUESTION, PLEASE?
THE FENCE IS ON TOP OF A CONCRETE WALL.
11:09:26AM >> RETENTION WALL THAT WAS MADE BY THE DEVELOPER FOR WATER
SITUATIONS.
IT'S A RETENTION WALL DONE FOR THE STROUD AVENUE.
ANYTHING ELSE?
THANK YOU.
11:09:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
11:09:47AM >> HELLO, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
MY NAME IS LAURA BREWSER.
I RESIDE AT 2412 WEST CHICAGO AVENUE.

I JUST TOOK POSSESSION OF MY PROPERTY IN AUGUST OF THIS
YEAR.
I CAN'T SPEAK TO ANYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST, BUT I
CAN TELL YOU AS A NEW HOMEOWNER, ACCESS TO THE CITY-OWNED
ALLEY WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO ME.
LACK OF ACCESS, EVEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, HAS
BEEN PROBLEMATIC WITH THE HURRICANE AND A BROKEN-DOWN FENCE
I HAD TO REMOVE, THE HURRICANE DEBRIS HAD TO BE WRAPPED UP
IN A BLANKET AND TAKEN OUT THROUGH MY HOUSE.
YOU CAN IMAGINE THE MESS OF THAT.
I PLAN ON RENOVATING MY BACKYARD IN THE FUTURE, SO REAR
ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY WOULD BE BENEFICIAL IN IMPLEMENTING
THIS.
HERE IS A COPY OF THE SURVEY THAT I RECEIVED PRIOR TO MY
CLOSING AUGUST 12 THAT WAS DONE.
AS YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE, IT DOES SHOW THAT 12-FOOT ALLEY
BEHIND MY HOME.
THERE IS NO OBSTRUCTION IN ANY WAY ON IT.
I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO INSTALL A GATE IN THE BACK OF MY
PROPERTY TO BE ABLE TO EXIT WITH CONSTRUCTION SUPPLIES AND
DEBRIS, IF NEEDED.
I CANNOT PUT A GATE INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S BACKYARD.
TO ME, IT IS NOT REASONABLE THAT ACCESS TO THE REAR OF OUR
PROPERTY IS ONLY AT THE WILL OF A NEIGHBOR TO GRANT ME
ACCESS.

IF THAT NEIGHBOR WITHHOLDS CONSENT FOR ANY REASON, I HAVE NO
ACCESS TO THE BACK OF MY PROPERTY.
WHAT IF THERE IS AN EMERGENCY?
WHAT IF THEY ARE AWAY OR THEY MOVE AND SOMEBODY ELSE IS JUST
NOT AS NICE TO ALLOW THAT?
THIS ALLEY WAS IN PLACE FOR A REASON.
IT IS ADVANTAGEOUS TO US AS PROPERTY OWNERS WITH NO SIDE
ACCESS TO HAVE FRONT AND REAR ACCESS TO OUR PROPERTIES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THE ALLEY HAS BEEN THIS WAY AND USED
BY THE NEIGHBORS, BUT THE CITY OF TAMPA WAS NEGLIGENT IN
ALLOWING THAT.
I'M ASKING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL NOT ALLOW IT ANY FURTHER,
AND THAT THE ALLEYWAY BE REINSTATED SO IT CAN BE USED YET
AGAIN.
THANK YOU.
11:11:47AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN?
11:11:48AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
11:11:51AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ROSS, YOU NEVER SHOWED ACTUAL PHOTOS OF
THAT ALLEY.
I WANT TO SEE PHOTOS OF THAT ALLEY.
SHOW DIAGRAMS.
I WANT TO SEE ACTUAL VISUAL PHOTOS OF THAT ALLEY.
I WANT TO SEE THE PHOTOS OF THE ALLEY.
DIDN'T YOU PRESENT THAT LAST TIME TO US?
THE ACTUAL PHOTOS?

11:12:10AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
NO.
BECAUSE UNABLE TO GET INTO THE PROPERTY THAT'S FENCED OFF.
I CAN SHOW YOU WHAT PHOTOS I HAVE, SURE.
THIS IS JUST AN AERIAL FIRST.
THE TOWNHOME BOUNDARY IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ALLEY
HERE.
AND THIS SECTION HERE ALSO.
HANG ON ONE SECOND.
11:12:43AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THOUGHT WE HAD OTHER PHOTOS.
11:13:00AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
SHOW YOU FROM HERE STANDING ON CAROLINA
AVENUE, LOOKING EAST.
11:13:10AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IF I MAY, MR. GUDES, I REMEMBER PHOTOS ALSO,
PEOPLE THAT BUILT LIKE BARBEQUE PITS.
11:13:17AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
THE ACTUAL SURVEY ITSELF.
11:13:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THOSE SORT OF THINGS IN THE ALLEY.
11:13:28AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
I'LL SHOW YOU THE FIRST PAGE OF THE SURVEY.
HERE IS THE SURVEY.
THIS IS THE ALLEY THAT IS REQUESTED TO BE VACATED.
THIS IS THE SOUTH BOUNDARY OF CHICAGO AVENUE SUBDIVISION.
AGAIN, IT'S ONLY SHOWING HALF OF THAT SUBDIVISION.
THIS IS CHICAGO AVENUE HERE.
AND STROUD HERE.
THE SECOND PAGE OF THE SURVEY THAT WAS COMPLETED BY THE CITY
SURVEYOR.
11:14:06AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ANY OPPOSITION SAYING, IF WE CLOSE THE

ALLEY, THEY CAN'T GET IN THE ALLEY TO THEIR PROPERTY, IS
THAT CORRECT?
11:14:13AM >>ROSS SAMONS:
CORRECT.
THIS IS NORTH AND SOUTH SECTION HERE.
AGAIN, SHOWING SOME PAVERS HERE.
THIS IS A WOODSHED HERE.
TWO PLASTIC SHEDS HERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE A FIRE PIT HERE ON THE WEST END AND SOME
PAVERS.
11:14:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, ARE YOU COMPLETED WITH
YOUR QUESTIONS?
I'LL GO TO COUNCILMAN CARLSON AND COME BACK TO COUNCILMAN
MIRANDA.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:14:53AM >>BILL CARLSON:
PUBLIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO SPEAK UP BUT I
HEARD SOMEONE SAID THEY HAVE PHOTOS.
ARE WE ALLOWED TO ASK THE PUBLIC TO SHOW THEIR PHOTOS?
11:15:05AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
AGAIN, MOST OF THE SPEAKERS WHO HAVE
ALREADY SPOKEN, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THEY HAVE SPOKEN.
IF YOU WANT TO BRING THEM BACK UP AND ASK IF THEY HAVE THE
PHOTOS, IT WOULD BE AT COUNCIL'S PLEASURE.
11:15:14AM >>BILL CARLSON:
DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION?
11:15:17AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE SPEAKER -- ANY SPEAKER
THAT HAS SPOKEN ALREADY FOR PHOTOS?
11:15:22AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST TO ANSWER MR. GUDES' QUESTION.

11:15:27AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO MOVED.
11:15:28AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LADIES, DO YOU HAVE PHOTOS?
11:15:32AM >> YES.
11:15:33AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
PLEASE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUBMIT YOUR
PHOTOS?
11:15:35AM >> YES.
11:15:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
MA'AM HAVE YOU SPOKEN YET?
11:15:49AM >> NOT YET.
11:15:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU GOING TO SPEAK?
11:15:54AM >> YES.
BECAUSE YOU ASKED FOR THE PHOTOS AND IN THE ESSENCE OF TIME,
I'LL TRY TO PULL THIS OUT SEPARATELY.
REALLY QUICK, I THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT --
BRIDGET MACE, 2420 WEST CHICAGO.
REALLY QUICK, THIS IS JUST A STREET VIEW OF THE TOWNHOMES
FROM THE FRONT SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY ARE ATTACHED
AND HOW OUR BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THE PETITION IS THE FACT THAT
WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK WITH THE CITY IN ENFORCING
COMPLIANCE OF THE STROUD RESIDENCE BECAUSE THEY HAVE
VIOLATED THE ENCROACHMENT TAKING OVER THE ALLEY AND PUTTING
UP FENCES.
WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT A YEAR AND A HALF.
OUR BIGGEST ISSUE IS WE THOUGHT WE WERE MOVING FORWARD.
WE WERE TOLD THEY WOULD BE CITED.

THEY NEVER WERE.
THEY WEREN'T FORCED TO BE COMPLIANT AND WE'VE BEEN ASKING
FOR ACCESS FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE OF THE BURDENS AND ISSUES
THAT IT'S CAUSED.
SO JUST TO SHOW YOU, THAT'S WHY OUR BIGGEST THING IS JUST
HAVING REAR ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY.
AS FAR AS THE PHOTOS THAT I THINK YOU WOULD MAYBE WANT TO
SEE, THIS IS JUST KIND OF GIVING YOU AN IDEA OF THE PICTURE
-- THERE IS A CHICAGO RESIDENT THAT NEEDED A TREE REMOVED.
THE CITY ARBORIST LOOKED AT IT.
IT WAS UP FOR REMOVAL.
IN ORDER TO ACCESS THAT TREE, THEY HAD TO ASK PERMISSION
FROM A STROUD RESIDENT TO GO THROUGH THEIR YARD BECAUSE THE
ALLEY WOULD TECHNICALLY BE BEHIND THE FENCE.
THE ALLEY IS NOT THERE BECAUSE THEY TOOK OVER AND ASSUMED
12-FOOT OF THE ENTIRE ALLEY AND PUT UP THEIR OWN ACCESSORY
STRUCTURES.
AND THEN JUST TO SHOW YOU WHAT THIS CAUSES FROM OUR
PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S A LOT OF DEBRIS OR CONSTRUCTION THAT
GOES ON THAT WE NEED ACCESS.
THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE FROM THE HOUSE IS TO ACTUALLY
PHYSICALLY WALK THROUGH YOUR ENTIRE HOUSE AND OUT THE FRONT
DOOR OR GARAGE.
YOU CANNOT GET TO IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE ASSUMED AND INVADED
THE ALLEY.

ANOTHER PICTURE, WE HAVE A HOMEOWNER RIGHT NOW THAT HAS A
PROJECT GOING ON IN THE REAR, AND THIS IS SHOWING YOU
ACTUALLY A PICTURE OF THEIR DRIVEWAY, BECAUSE THEY HAVE
NOWHERE ELSE TO TAKE THIS OTHER THAN THROUGH THEIR HOUSE TO
GET TO THE BACK IN ORDER TO PURSUE THIS PROJECT THAT THEY
HAVE.
WHAT YOU'RE MAYBE REFERRING TO FROM A PICTURE WOULD BE -- IS
THIS IS ACTUALLY THE PETITIONER'S BACKYARD WHO IS A
DEVELOPER AND OWNS THIS PROPERTY WHO WANTS TO BUILD
TOWNHOMES.
SO THIS IS AN ALLEY THAT'S UNUSED.
IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM LOOKING AT THE PICTURES, IT'S CLEARLY
USED AND ENJOYED BY THE STROUD RESIDENTS.
THEY HAVE CUT OFF OUR ACCESS, WHICH IS REALLY OUR CHALLENGE
HERE.
WE HAVE BEEN PURSUING THIS TO TRY TO GET THIS.
THIS IS WHY WE'RE AGAINST THE PETITION BECAUSE WE REALLY
JUST WANT IT REINSTATED.
IF YOU WANT TO SEE ANY OTHER ENCROACHMENTS, THERE ARE SOME
PICTURES, YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S BEHIND THERE.
YOU CAN SEE STRUCTURES IN THE BACK, AND I HAVE PROVIDED
COPIES OF THIS AND WILL SUBMIT IT TO YOU AS WELL.
11:19:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU FINISHED, MA'AM?
11:19:08AM >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
I MEAN, I THINK REALLY, WE FEEL LIKE WE WERE WORKING WITH

THE CITY AND WE WERE TOLD THAT THEY WOULD BE CITED.
THESE ENCROACHMENTS WOULD BE REMOVED, SO WE THOUGHT WE'RE
MOVING FORWARD AND THEN THE PETITION CAME UP, AND THIS IS
REALLY JUST FOR A DEVELOPER TO BUILD TOWNHOMES WHILE YOU
WOULD BE CUTTING OFF PERMANENT ACCESS TO THE REAR OF THE
PROPERTY.
AS FAR AS THE FENCES, THERE ARE PLENTY OF FENCES ON ALLEYS
IN TAMPA AND NO ONE HAS REALLY ENCROACHED THOSE AND YOU
STILL HAVE ACCESS.
THE REASON WHY WE REPLACED OUR WOOD FENCE WITH A VINYL FENCE
IS SO WE COULD ADD GATES.
11:19:47AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THAT'S MY POINT.
I WANT TO KNOW, YOU SAY THE NEIGHBORS HAVE MADE COMPLAINTS
TO CODE ENFORCEMENT IN REFERENCE TO THE ALLEY?
11:19:54AM >> YES.
WE HAD SUBMITTED LAST TIME, AT LEAST 15 PAGES OF
DOCUMENTATION WITH DIFFERENT CITY DEPARTMENTS AND STAFF, AND
WE WERE EVEN TOLD BY CODE ENFORCEMENT THAT THEY WERE GOING
TO CITE THE RESIDENTS AND THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
11:20:09AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IS CODE ENFORCEMENT HERE?
I WOULD LIKE THEM TO COME UP, MR. CHAIRMAN.
11:20:25AM >> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL.
KEVIN AMOS, DISTRICT SUPERVISOR.
11:20:31AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
TELL ME ABOUT THIS ALLEY AND TELL ME WHAT
CODE ENFORCEMENT RESPONSIBILITY WAS IN REFERENCE TO THE

COMPLAINTS OF THE RESIDENTS IN REFERENCE TO THE ALLEY AND
WHAT ACTION DID WE TAKE OR WE DIDN'T TAKE?
11:20:43AM >> YES, SIR.
WHEN THE INITIAL COMPLAINT CAME IN, WE WERE VERY SYMPATHETIC
TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU HEARD THIS MORNING.
WE SOUGHT GUIDANCE FROM LEGAL.
THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF
VACATING.
AT THE TIME, THERE WAS NO SENSE OF URGENCY REGARDING THE
ENCROACHMENTS.
IT WAS A LOT OF EXPENSIVE PERSONAL PROPERTY.
SO ANTICIPATING A VACATING PETITION, WE HELD OFF UNTIL THAT
VACATING PETITION EITHER WAS PASSED OR NOT PASSED.
IF IT'S NOT, WE COULD STILL SERVE NOTICE.
11:21:22AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO THERE WERE COMPLAINTS FROM THE RESIDENTS
ABOUT THE ALLEY.
11:21:25AM >> YES, YES, THERE WERE.
11:21:28AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WHAT IS POSITION OF CODE ENFORCEMENT WHEN
THESE SITUATIONS COME UP?
11:21:32AM >> WHEN A SITUATION LIKE THIS COMES UP, AS UNIQUE AS IT IS,
WE SOUGHT THE GUIDANCE OF LEGAL.
AND THERE WERE A LOT -- THERE WERE SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH ALL
THE CITY STAKEHOLDERS WHO DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF
INTEREST IN WHAT WAS IN THE ALLEY WITH REGARD TO THE CITY'S
INTEREST.

11:21:52AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
11:21:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
11:21:57AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU, MR. AMOS.
I APPRECIATE YOUR SINCERITY AND YOUR WILLINGNESS TO BE HERE
TODAY.
TELL ME ABOUT THE ALLEY.
CAN YOU WALK THE ALLEY?
11:22:09AM >> NOT RIGHT NOW.
NO, THE ENCROACHMENTS PREVENT THAT.
11:22:14AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PICTURES THAT WE CAN SEE THAT ARE ACTUAL
PICTURES OF THE ALLEY?
BECAUSE WHAT I SEE HERE IS AN ALLEY THAT'S OPEN THAT'S
REALLY CLOSED.
YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH IT.
11:22:24AM >> EXACTLY.
11:22:26AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT BRINGS IT TO THIS
POINT TODAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT IT CLOSED WHEN THEY
THEMSELVES CLOSED IT.
THE PROPERTY OWNERS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT AND I'M NOT HERE TO
FAULT ANYONE, FOR WHATEVER REASON, MAYBE SOMEBODY BEFORE
THEM AND THEY BUILT THE HOUSE AFTER, BUT SOMEBODY VIOLATED
WITH OR WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE -- MORNING, MR. ROBINSON -- WITH
OR WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, PUT SOMETHING IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT
WAS NOT THERE -- AM I CORRECT?

11:22:54AM >> YES.
11:22:55AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY?
11:22:57AM >> NOT EXACTLY.
I'M GUESSING BASED ON WHAT WE'VE SEEN ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE
PROPERTIES, MAYBE SIX.
11:23:03AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF THIS ALLEY
IS NOT CLOSED?
HAVE TO REMOVE THEM?
11:23:09AM >> YES, YES.
NOTICE WILL BE SERVED AND THE ENCROACHMENTS WILL HAVE TO BE
REMOVED?
11:23:15AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?
11:23:16AM >> I HAVE NO IDEA, SIR.
11:23:18AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT YOU IN THE HOT
SEAT.
BELIEVE ME.
IT'S UP TO THE HOMEOWNERS.
FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, YOU HAVE A FENCE AND PROPERTY TAKEN
OVER.
IS THERE ANY CONCRETE BUILDINGS OR ANY CONCRETE POURED INTO
THE ALLEY THAT THEY HAVE TO REMOVE?
11:23:35AM >> I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY CONCRETE.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PAVERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
EITHER WAY, IT'S A LOT OF EXPENSIVE PERSONAL ITEMS THAT HAVE
BEEN INSTALLED.

11:23:44AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
GIVE ME AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE EXPENSES
ARE?
11:23:49AM >> GOSH, I COULDN'T BEGIN TO TELL YOU.
MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
MANY THOUSANDS, PROBABLY.
11:23:53AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MANY THOUSANDS.
THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE -- ARE THE NEIGHBORS STILL
SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER?
THE ONES THAT CLOSED THE ALLEY ILLEGALLY?
11:24:03AM >> I DON'T KNOW THAT.
11:24:03AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M ASKING THE QUESTION BECAUSE THESE ARE
THINGS GOING THROUGH MY MIND.
I'VE NEVER SEEN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, THEY DON'T CLOSE THE
ALLEY, THEY HAVE TO PAY TO LEAVE IT OPEN.
IT'S LIKE GOING TO THE FERRIS WHEEL.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WILL STOP, THE MOTOR IS BROKEN.
SOMEBODY VIOLATED THE LAW.
FOUR OR FIVE OF THE 10 OR 12 HOMES ON THE BLOCK ON EITHER
SIDE.
MAYBE 15, 20 HOMES.
DO THEY KNOW ABOUT IT PERSONALLY OR THEMSELVES?
11:24:35AM >> THE ONES WITH THE ENCROACHMENTS?
I'M QUITE CERTAIN THEY KNOW THAT THEY'VE DONE THIS, YES.
11:24:42AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
ANY ONE OF THEM IN THE ROOM TODAY?
11:24:45AM >> I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

11:24:45AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I SEE HEADS SHAKING AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A DETECTIVE ON
THIS.
THE ALLEY IS OPEN, BUT IT IS CLOSED AT THE SAME TIME.
11:24:58AM >> WELL, IT'S CLOSED DUE TO THE ENCROACHMENT.
IT'S OPEN BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN VACATED.
11:25:03AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NO ONE CAN NOW DRIVE A CAR THROUGH TO
PARK IN THE BACKYARD, AM I CORRECT?
11:25:09AM >> CORRECT, YES.
11:25:11AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHAT AM I DOING HERE TODAY?
11:25:13AM >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
11:25:14AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M ASKING THAT QUESTION TO MYSELF.
I SEE SOMETHING THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
11:25:22AM >> IT IS VERY UNIQUE.
11:25:24AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AND THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THIS WILL GO
ON FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
I IMAGINE YOU WOULD HAVE HOMEOWNERS AGAINST HOMEOWNERS.
SOONER OR LATER -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. AMOS.
11:25:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M GOING TO COUNCILMAN CARLSON AND THEN I
WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION.
BUT I'LL COME BACK TO YOU.
11:25:51AM >>BILL CARLSON:
NO, I JUST WONDER IF LEGAL WILL ALLOW US, IF
YOU THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE
PUBLIC COME BACK AND RESPOND TO THAT.
11:26:04AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
TO REBUT WHAT THE CITY --

11:26:07AM >>BILL CARLSON:
NOT TO REBUT.
JUST TO GIVE THEIR PERSPECTIVE OR RESPONSE TO THAT.
11:26:14AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO.
IT'S NORMALLY NOT DONE, SIR.
NO.
IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC QUESTION THAT YOU ASK, BUT THE
QUESTION IS -- WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS DUE PROCESS AND
CONSISTENCY WITH THE RECORD RELATIVE TO THIS HEARING.
SO THE QUESTION IS, IT'S NOT AN OPEN FORUM AND IT'S NOT A
DEBATE.
IT IS TESTIMONY THAT'S BEING PROVIDED TO YOU BASED ON YOUR
QUESTIONS, SPECIFICALLY, AND THEN BASED ON THE CRITERIA THAT
HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU UPON WHAT YOU MUST BASE YOUR
DECISION.
THIS IS NOT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A BACK AND FORTH, NO.
11:26:51AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THEN WE HAVE PARTIES WHO DON'T WANT IT
CLOSED HERE.
DO WE HAVE ANY OF THE PARTIES THAT HAVE ILLEGALLY BUILT
SOMETHING OR BOUGHT SOMETHING ILLEGALLY HERE TODAY?
11:27:05AM >> I DON'T SEE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE, BUT THERE WAS ONE
PUBLIC COMMENTER THAT SPOKE THAT IS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE
NORTH-SOUTH ALLEYWAY WHO SPOKE ABOUT THAT.
11:27:18AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHAT DID HE SAY?
11:27:20AM >> THAT THEY WERE GIVEN PERMISSION TO HAVE THE PAVERS
INSTALLED AND HAVE A DRIVEWAY IN THAT AREA AGAIN ON THE

NORTH-SOUTH PART OF THE L-SHAPED ALLEYWAY.
11:27:30AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHO GAVE THEM THE PERMISSION?
WE DON'T KNOW.
11:27:32AM >> THAT WE DON'T KNOW.
11:27:33AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
MAYBE IT'S ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS.
YEAH, YOU CAN DO IT.
I UNDERSTAND THAT, BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU.
WEST TAMPA, SOUTH.
I'M NOT UPSET WITH ANYONE, BUT THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENS.
11:27:52AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
11:27:54AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
JUST FOR THE RECORD, APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR
WITH IT.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GOT IT RIGHT.
LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS FILED WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT ABOUT THIS
ALLEY, CORRECT, SIR?
11:28:07AM >> YES, YES, THERE WERE.
THE MAIN COMPLAINANT WAS MS. PRICE WHO IS HERE TODAY, AND WE
HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT.
11:28:16AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YOUR DEPARTMENT TOOK IT TO OTHER
DEPARTMENT HEADS TO FIGURE OUT THIS SITUATION AND IT FELL ON
DEAF EARS.
THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING, SIR?
11:28:28AM >> WELL, IT DIDN'T FALL IN ON DEAF EARS.
WE BROUGHT IN THE CITY STAKEHOLDERS AND HAD SEVERAL
DISCUSSIONS WITH LEGAL ABOUT IT AND WE HEARD THAT THERE WERE

A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE POSSIBLE VACATING.
11:28:44AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING.
SOMETHING DONE ILLEGAL, CORRECT?
11:28:48AM >> YES.
11:28:49AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOUR DEPARTMENT TOOK IT TO THE ATTENTION OF
LEGAL, WHATEVER DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS
SITUATION, CORRECT?
11:28:57AM >> MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN I STEP IN?
11:29:00AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SURE.
11:29:03AM >> KEITH O'CONNOR, DIRECTOR OF NEIGHBORHOOD ENHANCEMENT.
JUST TO GO BACK TO WHAT KEVIN AMOS IS TRYING TO SAY, SO THIS
IS A UNIQUE SITUATION.
THIS ALLEYWAY AND THE ENCROACHMENTS, WE'RE TALKING MANY,
MANY YEARS.
YOU WOULD NEVER DRIVE BY HERE AND SAY THERE IS AN ALLEY
THERE.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PLACES IN THE CITY LIKE THAT.
BUT WHEN YOU GO TO THE PLAT, THE ALLEY IS CLEAR.
SO TO HIS POINT AND TO YOUR POINT, WE CANNOT JUST LOOK AT IT
AND GO THAT IS A CLEAR VIOLATION.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE ALLEY IS.
WE STARTED WITH THE SURVEY.
LIKE HE SAID IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WAS NOTHING URGENT
GOING ON HERE, WE'RE TALKING MANY, MANY YEARS.
THIS ALLEY I DON'T THINK WAS EVER USED FOR VEHICULAR

TRAFFIC.
IT'S A NARROW ALLEY.
IF YOU CLEARED IT OUT, YOU STILL CAN'T DRIVE DOWN IT BECAUSE
YOU CAN'T TURN AT THE T.
SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS DO THE SURVEY AND SEE EXACTLY
WHAT IS IN THE ALLEY THAT WE COULD PROVE THERE IS AN
ENCROACHMENT.
SO WITH THE SURVEY, WE COULD SEE THAT THE SURVEYOR NOTICED
IT'S FOUR PROPERTIES WHERE THERE ARE ENCROACHMENTS.
WE STILL HAVE NOT SEEN THEM OURSELVES.
IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A CASE, WE HAVE TO PROVE TO THE
MAGISTRATE THAT'S WHAT IS ON THAT SURVEY IS THERE IN REAL
LIFE AND TESTIFY TO IT.
SO WE JUST WAITED TILL THIS PROCESS WENT THROUGH BECAUSE
THERE REALLY IS NO SENSE OF URGENCY, YOU CAN GO AROUND, I
BELIEVE, THE TOWNHOMES.
THE ALLEY, IT'S A LONG WAY AWAY FROM BEING CLEAR EVEN TO GET
THROUGH IT.
IT'S WAY, WAY OVERGROWN.
11:30:40AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GOOD GUY OR THE BAD GUY.
11:30:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU FINISHED?
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ALSO, PLEASE.
11:30:50AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST CONSIDERING YOU TALKED ABOUT CONSULTING
LEGAL, OTHER THAN INFORMING YOU THAT THESE HEARINGS WERE
COMING UP, DID LEGAL GIVE ANY OTHER REASON AS TO WHY YOU

SHOULDN'T FIND THAT THE FOUR PEOPLE WHO WERE VIOLATING THE
ENCROACHMENT?
11:31:06AM >> THE DISCUSSION WAS ALWAYS ABOUT ONCE WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS
WITH THE VACATING BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A LONG PROCESS, BUT I
DON'T REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY THEM SAYING DON'T DO IT NOW OR
DO IT LATER.
WE HAD TO GET EVERYONE INVOLVED.
WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS IN THERE UTILITY-WISE.
AS WE WENT THROUGH EACH DEPARTMENT, IT SEEMED LIKE NO ONE
UTILITY-WISE WAS INTERESTED.
11:31:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE ELSE?
FIRST STATEMENT, ALL THE MORE REASON WHY CODE ENFORCEMENT
NEEDS DRONES.
THAT WAY YOU CAN FLY OVER AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING
BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTIES.
MR. AMOS, YOU'VE BEEN WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT FOR A FEW YEARS.
11:31:51AM >> ABOUT 37.
11:31:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS ALLEY OPEN?
11:32:00AM >> NO.
NO, I HAVEN'T.
11:32:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN SOUTH TAMPA AS
A SUPERVISOR OR AN EMPLOYEE WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT?
11:32:10AM >> SINCE I WAS DISTRICT SUPERVISOR IN SOUTH TAMPA SINCE
2008.

11:32:15AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
2008.
I BELIEVE CANALEJO WAS DOWN THERE BEFORE YOU.
11:32:21AM >> HE WAS.
11:32:22AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
NOW I'M GOING TO GO TO LEGAL.
VACATING OF THIS RIGHT-OF-WAY -- IT IS 12-FOOT, CORRECT?
12-FOOT ALLEY?
11:32:35AM >> I THINK THE EAST AND WEST CORRIDOR IS 12 FEET, AND THE
NORTH AND SOUTH IS 15?
10 AND 15.
11:32:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
REGARDLESS, IF THIS WAS TO BE VACATED, IT
WOULD BE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED BETWEEN BOTH PROPERTIES.
11:32:48AM >> NO, SIR, I CANNOT MAKE THAT REPRESENTATION EITHER WAY.
FIRST OF ALL, THE CITY DOES NOT GET INVOLVED IN PRIVATE
PROPERTY BOUNDARY DISPUTES.
AS I SAID, GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU DO TYPICALLY GO DOWN THE
CENTER LINE; HOWEVER, WHEN THERE'S TWO SUBDIVISIONS THAT
ABUT EACH OTHER AND THE ALLEYWAY IS CONTAINED WITHIN ONE
SUBDIVISION, THEN THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE SPLIT
DOES NOT OCCUR AND ONE SIDE GETS IT ABOVE THE OTHER.
11:33:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M GLAD I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
11:33:10AM >> AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING OR MAKING ANY REPRESENTATION AS
TO --
11:33:14AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
BUT THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER HEARD,
AND I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT AND VARIOUS

REVIEW BOARDS FOR YEARS.
THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I'VE HEARD IT.
NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG.
MY POINT WAS GOING TO BE, REGARDLESS, IF YOU DID SPLIT IT
BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNERS, SOME OF THE STUFF THAT'S IN
THAT ALLEYWAY WOULD HAVE TO BE TORN DOWN ANYWAYS.
11:33:34AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
ABSOLUTELY.
CERTAINLY WOULD BE THE CHICAGO AVENUE TOWNHOME OWNERS THAT
WOULD HAVE TO ENFORCE THAT RIGHT.
THEIR FEE SIMPLE PROPERTY RIGHT.
11:33:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THAT'S PERSPECTIVE FOR ME.
THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE ONLINE THAT IS GOING TO SPEAK TO AGENDA ITEM
NUMBER 71?
YES, I BELIEVE THAT STEPHANIE POYNOR AND CARROLL ANN
BENNETT.
MS. POYNOR, ARE YOU THERE?
MS. BENNETT, ARE YOU THERE?
11:34:11AM >> YES, I AM.
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
11:34:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I HAVE TO HAVE YOU ON VIDEO, MS. BENNETT.
AND I WILL HAVE TO ASK YOU, AND IF MS. POYNOR IS THERE, TO
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HANDS.
11:34:28AM >>THE CLERK:
PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU ARE ABOUT

TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
11:34:37AM >> YES.
11:34:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. POYNOR, YOU ARE MUTED.
WE'LL GO TO MS. BENNETT.
THANK YOU, MS. BENNETT.
11:34:48AM >> HI.
CARROLL ANN BENNETT.
LIFELONG RESIDENT OF SOUTH TAMPA.
I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS LEGAL TOLD YOU
THAT YOU MUST CONSIDER IS WILL THE ABUTTING OWNERS' ACCESS
BE CUT OFF?
THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A YES.
SO, LEGALLY, I DON'T REALLY SEE HOW YOU CAN IGNORE THAT
BECAUSE THERE ARE ONLY CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN CONSIDER, AND
THAT'S ONE OF THEM.
I HEARD MR. MICHELINI SAY THERE'S NO PUBLIC PURPOSE.
WELL, THERE'S NO PUBLIC PURPOSE DUE TO ILLEGAL ENCROACHMENT.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO OBJECT TO THIS ARE TRYING TO USE IT FOR A
PUBLIC PURPOSE.
I ALSO HAVE TO WONDER IF WHEN STAFF MADE ITS RECOMMENDATION
OF CONSISTENT, I DOUBT IF THEY HAD SPOKEN TO THE PEOPLE ON
CHICAGO AND I DOUBT IF THEY WERE AWARE THAT THEY HAD BEEN
TRYING TO GET THE ALLEY AVAILABLE TO THEM.
ANOTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS THAT YOU HEARD
THEM SAY THAT THE ALLEY IS PART OF THE SUBDIVISION OF THE

TOWNHOMES.
SO IT ACTUALLY BELONGS TO THAT SUBDIVISION.
MS. POYNOR AND I RECENTLY HAD A SITUATION WITH A LARGE
APARTMENT COMPLEX ON TRASK THAT WAS BUILT.
SOME OF THE HOMEOWNERS HAD ENCROACHED ON THAT APARTMENT
COMPLEX'S RIGHT-OF-WAY.
AND THE APARTMENT COMPLEX WANTED THE ENTIRE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND
THEY WEREN'T GOING TO SPLIT IT WITH THE HOMEOWNERS BECAUSE
THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY WAS PART OF THE PLAT OF THEIR PROPERTY.
I GREW UP IN AN AREA THAT HAD AN ALLEY IN THE BACK THAT WAS
NEVER USED BY THE CITY OR ANYONE, ACTUALLY.
AND SEVERAL OF THE NEIGHBORS CONSIDERED FENCING IT IN, AND
EVERYBODY KNEW, YEAH, YOU CAN DO IT, BUT IF IT EVER COMES TO
BE A PROBLEM, YOU'LL HAVE TO TAKE IT DOWN.
THAT WOULD BE AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE.
I WOULD WAGER THAT ONLY FOUR PEOPLE HE SAID HAVE ENCROACHED
OUT OF A DOZEN.
THE OTHER ONES DIDN'T DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE, YOU KNOW
WHAT, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE CHANCE TO HAVE TO PAY TO TAKE
IT DOWN.
YOU NOTICE THAT NONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT WANT THIS, OTHER
THAN THE PETITIONER'S REPRESENTATIVES, NONE OF THE OTHER
PEOPLE WHO ENCROACH, THEY ARE NOT HERE TODAY.
I HAVE TO WONDER IF THEY KNOW THEY DID THE WRONG THING AND
THEY ARE JUST PULLING THE RUG TO SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR TWO YEARS TO GET THE ALLEY
BACK.
I THINK IT'S AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM
THEM.
SO I THINK THAT THIS SHOULD BE DENIED.
THANK YOU.
11:37:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. POYNOR.
YOU ARE MUTED, MS. POYNOR.
MS. POYNOR.
11:37:55AM >>THE CLERK:
MS. POYNOR, YOU MAY NEED TO UNMUTE YOUR ACTUAL
DEVICE.
11:38:00AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
OKAY.
ANY REBUTTAL?
11:38:08AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
BEFORE YOU DO THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I CAN,
YOU DO HAVE MEMBERS OF STAFF HERE.
IF YOU DO HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF, IF YOU WANT TO
TAKE ANY ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY, PLEASE DO SO BEFORE WE --
11:38:20AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK I'M GOOD.
NO ANY OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:38:26AM >>BILL CARLSON:
COULD I ASK LEGAL A QUESTION?
SINCE WE WENT THROUGH SUCH A LONG CONVERSATION WITH STAFF
AND THE PUBLIC, SHOULD WE OFFER THE APPLICANT ANY ADDITIONAL
TIME OR ANYTHING TO RESPOND?
11:38:39AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

SINCE YOU ALLOWED PUBLIC SPEAKERS TO SPEAK MULTIPLE TIMES, I
CERTAINLY WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT --
11:38:46AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
-- CUSTOMARY.
11:38:52AM >> READY FOR ME?
11:38:54AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
HOW MUCH TIME ARE YOU GIVING HIM?
11:38:58AM >>THE CLERK:
FIVE MINUTES --
11:39:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. MICHELINI, PLEASE PROCEED.
11:39:03AM >> COUNCIL, THE STAFF HAS POINTED OUT THAT THIS IS A UNIQUE
SITUATION, AND I CONCUR WITH THAT.
IT IS A UNIQUE SITUATION.
THE ALLEY WAS UNDEFINED.
IT IS IMPASSABLE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT'S BEEN IMPASSABLE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY SOMEONE THOUGHT THAT THEY COULD BUILD
WHATEVER THEY WERE BUILDING OUT INTO WHAT IS A PLATTED
ALLEY.
SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE HIRED A THIRD-PARTY TITLE COMPANY TO
TRY TO HELP US SORT THIS OUT.
AND THEY CAME BACK TO US AND INDICATED THAT IN 1987, WHEN
THE CHICAGO TOWN HOUSES WERE PLATTED, THEY DID NOT RESERVE
ANY RIGHTS WHATSOEVER TO THE ALLEY.
IT WAS ABANDONED.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO SUBMIT THAT INTO THE RECORD.
SO WHEN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WE WANT OUR ALLEY BACK, THOSE
RIGHTS TRANSFERRED TO EVERYBODY ON STROUD.

THEY DID NOT RESERVE ANYTHING.
THE FACT THAT THEY DESIGNED THE TOWN HOUSES IN A MANNER THAT
THEY HAD NO ACCESS BACK THERE, THAT'S AN ISSUE REGARDING
THEM AND THEIR DEVELOPER THAT DID THAT.
IT DID NOT TRANSFER OVER TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS ALONG
STROUD.
I DO HAVE SOME OF OUR OWN PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I SHOWED YOU
BEFORE.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE CHICAGO
TOWN HOUSES.
CONCRETE BLOCK WALL AND A FULL PVC FENCE.
THERE IS NO ACCESS THERE.
AND WHEN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SEEKING PERMISSION FROM THE
ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS TO ACCESS THE REAR, THEY'RE CORRECT
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHTS TO BEGIN WITH, AND THE
SECOND PART OF THAT IS, IT'S IMPASSABLE.
THERE'S ONLY ONE GATE ALONG THAT ENTIRE LENGTH AND WIDTH OF
THE ALLEY THAT IS ACCESSIBLE BY THE CHICAGO TOWNHOMES.
WITH RESPECT TO DOES IT SERVE A PUBLIC PURPOSE?
IT DOES HAVE UTILITIES THERE, AND THOSE UTILITY EASEMENTS
ARE BEING RESERVED FOR THE USE OF ALL OF THOSE ADJACENT
PROPERTY OWNERS.
I HAVE A VIDEO.
WE DID AN AERIAL DRONE FLYOVER FOR THIS.
I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW TO SHOW IT, BUT I HAVE IT.

I SENT IT TO THE STAFF EARLIER AND WE WEREN'T SURE WHO WAS
LOADING IT UP TO THE CITY, BUT I HAVE IT.
IT CLEARLY SHOWS THE OBSTRUCTIONS.
NOW, THE OBSTRUCTIONS WERE NOT PROPERLY PERMITTED.
MAYBE THEY WERE PROPERLY PERMITTED.
I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.
THE ISSUE IS THE ALLEY BEING USED OR CAN IT BE USED BY THE
TOWN HOUSES ON CHICAGO?
THE ANSWER IS NO.
CAN'T.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHTS TO IT ANYMORE.
THEY GAVE IT UP.
THEIR PLAT CLEARLY SHOWS THEY DID NOT RESERVE ANY RIGHTS TO
THAT ALLEY.
THE TITLE COMPANY THAT CAME BACK WITH A REPORT SHOWS THERE'S
NOTHING THERE FOR THAT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT AMOUNTS TO IF THERE'S ACCESS TO BE
GRANTED, IT'S A COOPERATION BETWEEN PROPERTY OWNERS.
IT TRANSFERS FROM THE CITY TO A CIVIL ISSUE.
IT'S NO LONGER -- IF YOU VACATE IT OR IF YOU DON'T VACATE
IT, IT'S STILL A CIVIL ISSUE.
BECAUSE TECHNICALLY, THE STROUD AVENUE PEOPLE COULD PUT A
FENCE UP INSIDE OF THEIR FENCE.
THEY DON'T HAVE RIGHTS TO THE ALLEY.

I THINK THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE'VE SHOWN YOU BEFORE
AND THE STAFF HAS SHOWN YOU, ACTUALLY, IT SITS LIKE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW, AS THE STAFF ALSO POINTED OUT, YOU COULDN'T
DRIVE A CAR THROUGH THERE IF YOU WANTED.
IF YOU DON'T VACATE IT, THEN WE GO BACK AND CODE ENFORCEMENT
ISSUES A CITATION AND TYPICALLY THE REASON THEY DON'T ISSUE
A CITATION IS BECAUSE YOUR TRYING TO ACHIEVE A CURE.
YOU'RE GIVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO HOW DO YOU CORRECT THIS
PROBLEM?
AND THE WAY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM IS TO VACATE THE ALLEY.
AND THEN EVERYONE ELSE IS DEALING WITH IT ON A DIFFERENT
VENUE.
THEY ARE NOT DEALING WITH IT HERE AND ARGUING WITH THE CITY
STAFF.
THEY ARE NOT ARGUING ABOUT WHO CAN DO WHAT THERE.
IT'S NOT REOPENING FOR THEM.
IT IS A MATTER OF IS IT ACCESSIBLE AND IS IT BEING UTILIZED
FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS ALONG STROUD AND WITH THE PROPER
EASEMENTS, THE CITY STAFF HAS TOLD YOU, THEY HAVE NO
OBJECTIONS, AND EVERYBODY AND THEIR BROTHER HAS KNOWN ABOUT
THE ISSUES RELATED TO THIS.
THERE ARE E-MAILS THAT GO ALL AROUND REGARDING THE
DIFFICULTIES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROPERTY.
WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR APPROVAL TO VACATE THE ALLEY,
TAKE THIS OFF OF THE CITY'S AGENDA AND IT BECOMES A CIVIL

ISSUE BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND THE PETITIONER IF
NECESSARY.
11:44:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
11:44:23AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. WIGGINTON.
11:44:30AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
YES, SIR.
11:44:31AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IS THERE, WAS THERE, IS THERE NOW A
VIOLATION OF THE ALLEYWAY?
11:44:37AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
REPEAT YOUR QUESTION.
11:44:38AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IS THERE A VIOLATION OF THE ALLEY?
11:44:42AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
THERE ARE ENCROACHMENTS INTO THE ALLEY.
11:44:44AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THAT'S A VIOLATION, RIGHT?
11:44:46AM >> THERE'S BEEN NO FINDING OF VIOLATION.
11:44:47AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NOT TALKING TO YOU, SIR.
IS THERE A VIOLATION?
11:44:50AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
I CANNOT TELL YOU IF THERE IS A VIOLATION.
11:44:52AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I'M ASKING BECAUSE CODE ENFORCEMENT JUST
SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO CITE.
11:44:56AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
I WILL LET CODE ENFORCEMENT.
11:44:59AM >> WE WOULD CITE IF THERE'S AN ENCROACHMENT THAT WE CAN
PROVE.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A SURVEY.
WE HAVE NOT PHYSICALLY SEEN IT OURSELVES AND DONE AN
INSPECTION.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SURVEYOR SHOWS US THAT THERE IS
ENCROACHMENTS AND AN ENCROACHMENT WOULD BE A VIOLATION.

11:45:16AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THAT'S THE PROBLEM I HAVE.
THE PROBLEM I HAVE THAT WE HAVE NOT COMPLETELY DONE OUR JOB.
I FEEL THAT IF CITIZENS BROUGHT A COMPLAINT, WE SHOULD HAVE
INVESTIGATED THE COMPLAINT THOROUGHLY.
AND IF CODE ENFORCEMENT TOOK IT TO THE OTHER ENTITIES OF THE
CITY AND WE DID NOTHING OR WE ARE JUST SITTING BACK WAITING
TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO, TO ME, THAT'S WRONG.
I THINK IT'S WRONG, AND WE SHOULD HAVE DID A LITTLE MORE
INVESTIGATION -- THAT'S WHAT THE CITIZENS DEPEND ON US TO
DO, TO GIVE THEM ANSWERS.
WHAT I'M HEARING RIGHT NOW WE DID NOT CLEARLY GIVE THESE
CITIZENS ANSWERS.
IF THERE WAS A VIOLATION, THOSE PEOPLE IN VIOLATION SHOULD
HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED.
THEY ARE ALL LIVING THERE IN THAT COMMUNITY.
WHAT I SEE RIGHT THERE, WIN, LOSE OR DRAW, YOU'LL HAVE
PROBLEMS WITH THIS WHOLE SITUATION STILL.
IT PROBABLY WILL END UP BEING A CIVIL SITUATION.
BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE, THE BURDEN ON THIS COUNCIL TO
MAKE A DECISION FOR OUR CITIZENS VERSUS LOOKING AT IT
PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED DOWN HERE BEFORE.
THAT'S MY ISSUE RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOW WE'RE THE BAD GUY FOR
SOMEBODY VERSUS THE CITY BEING RESPONSIBLE PERSON AND
INVESTIGATING, DOING IT PROPERLY AND MAKE A DECISION THERE
AND NOW BRINGING TO ME CONCRETE EVIDENCE OF THINGS THAT NEED

TO BE DONE.
RIGHT NOW, I'M NOT SURE THAT HAS BEEN DONE.
I YIELD BACK, SIR.
11:46:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
11:46:33AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU.
I HOPE FOR THE LAST TIME, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH MR. GUDES'
ASSUMPTION OF THE FACTS.
CAN I ASK THE CITY, HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO HAVE
CONCRETE EVIDENCE THAT A VIOLATION IS THERE?
11:46:50AM >> IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY LET US IN THE BACKYARD.
BUT I WOULD IMAGINE WE COULD UTILIZE THE CITY SURVEYOR WHO
PHYSICALLY SAW HIM COULD BE USED AS A WITNESS, I WOULD
IMAGINE.
11:47:04AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M JUST ASKING YOU, CHIEF, ABOUT THE
SURVEYOR.
CAN YOU JUSTIFY THAT THE SURVEYOR'S INFORMATION TO YOU IS
100% CORRECT?
HAVE ACTUAL PHOTOS?
I'M SEEING PHOTOS ON PAPER BUT NOT THE ACTUAL PHOTO ITSELF.
I KNOW THAT -- I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE THIS THING COME TO AN
END AND RESOLVE ITSELF.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE -- WE'RE GOING TO BE PART OF
LITIGATION BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT WILL HAVE TO CITE
THEM AND TAKE THEM TO COURT, AM I CORRECT?
11:47:35AM >> WE WOULD CITE THE FOUR PROPERTY OWNERS IF WE ESTABLISH,

THEY WOULD COME BEFORE A MAGISTRATE IF THEY DID NOT JUST
REMOVE THE ENCROACHMENTS ON THEIR OWN.
11:47:43AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE?
11:47:44AM >> IT DEPENDS ON THE ENCROACHMENT.
BUT THERE ARE SHEDS AND PAVERS.
YOU COULD DO IT REAL QUICK OR YOU COULD -- THEY COULD SAY --
MY EXPERIENCE IS A LOT OF TIMES THEY ARE GOING TO FIGHT IT
OUT AND STUFF, BECAUSE THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR MANY,
MANY YEARS.
11:48:02AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT RESOLVED BUT I
DON'T THINK -- IF I HAVE TO VOTE TODAY, THERE IS EVIDENCE
THAT THE ALLEY, ALTHOUGH BEING OPEN ON PAPER, IS ACTUALLY
CLOSED IN REALITY.
THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN DRIVE THROUGH THE ALLEY, FROM ONE
SIDE TO THE OTHER.
AND THAT MEANS IT'S OPEN.
IF IT WAS CLOSED, COULDN'T DRIVE ANYWAY LEGALLY.
IT'S NOT CLOSED, IT'S ILLEGALLY CLOSED AND YOU STILL CAN'T
DRIVE THROUGH IT.
IT'S A COMPLICATED SITUATION THAT WE HAVE HERE.
I'D LIKE TO SEE IT RESOLVED BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT
RESOLVED WHERE THE CITY IS OUT OF IT.
NEIGHBORS WANT TO SUE EACH OTHER, IT'S UP TO THEM.
BECAUSE THE PETITIONER HAS THE RIGHT ALSO, JUST LIKE THE
NEIGHBORHOOD'S RIGHT.

I HEARD WHAT THE YOUNG LADY SAID HERE ABOUT WE SHOULD DENY
IT.
WELL, THEY ARE NOT SITTING HERE AND LISTENING TO THE
PROBLEMS.
I'M NOT WILLING TO SAY I'M RIGHT OR WRONG.
I WANT TO SAY I WANT IT TO BE 100% CORRECT WHEN I VOTE ON IT
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU GUYS DIDN'T DO YOUR JOB.
YOU DID YOUR JOB AND DID IT VERY THOROUGHLY.
LIKE MR. GUDES SAYS, I NEED THE SURVEY TO SAY THIS IS WHAT
IT IS SO IN CASE IT GOES TO COURT, YOU ALREADY HAVE THE
EVIDENCE.
DON'T HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER SIX MONTHS.
THE EVIDENCE IS HERE IN FRONT OF THE MAGISTRATE.
I NEED THE EVIDENCE, THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FROM A SURVEYOR
SAYING THAT THAT ALLEY IS IMPEDED AND NOT OPEN.
IT'S CLOSED.
11:49:29AM >> THE SURVEY SHOWS THAT.
THE SURVEY THAT WE HAVE, IT SHOWS THAT.
11:49:31AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WE HAVE THE SURVEY AND SOMEBODY SAYS,
YES, I DID IT.
11:49:37AM >> IT'S A CITY EMPLOYEE, YES.
THEY ARE HERE SOMEWHERE.
11:49:40AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TODAY THEN?
11:49:43AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
VIK BHIDE IS AVAILABLE, I BELIEVE, ONLINE,

TO ADDRESS THE SURVEY ISSUE.
ALSO JUST LIKE TO REMIND CITY COUNCIL THAT THE POINT OF
VACATING IS SIMPLY TO RELEASE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
THAT'S A SUPEREASEMENT, IF YOU WILL.
WE HAVE RESERVED OTHER EASEMENTS, BUT THE ENCROACHMENT ISSUE
IS REALLY A SIDE ISSUE, IF YOU WILL.
A PRIVATE ISSUE, BECAUSE THE ENCROACHMENT MAY ONLY BE,
VACATING IS APPROVED, MAY ONLY BE ON THE EASEMENT HOLDERS.
SO ALL THE EASEMENTS THAT WE RESERVED, THOSE HOLDERS HAVE
REVIEWED THIS AND HAVE NOT OBJECTED TO THE VACATION.
11:50:30AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
IF I MAY CLOSE ON MY PART, AGAIN, IT'S
OPEN BUT IT'S CLOSED.
LET'S SAY THERE WERE NO OTHER -- IF THIS PETITION THAT'S
BEFORE US, IS THIS GOING TO EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM THAT WE
HAVE THERE, IF THEY LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS.
NO ONE CAN GO THERE.
HE CAN'T GO INTO THE ALLEY.
THE ALLEY IS CLOSED.
HE CAN'T GO IN THERE LEGALLY.
IF THE PETITIONER IS LOOKING AT IT AND ALL THE OTHERS ARE
REMOVED, THEN HE WOULD BE THE ONES CLOSING THE ALLEY BECAUSE
HE'S THE ONLY BUILDING OR THE ONLY WAY -- SEVEN FEET,
WHATEVER, FIVE FEET ON HIS SIDE.
BUT YOU ALREADY HAVE BUILDINGS THAT ARE THERE.
YOU HAVE ALREADY BUILDINGS THAT CAN THIS BUILDING, THEY

CAN'T DRIVE IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE TO GET IN.
UNLESS THIS NEW PETITION IS GOING TO STOP HER FROM DOING
THAT, SHE CAN STILL DO IT.
AM I CORRECT?
11:51:24AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
YES, SIR, IF I BELIEVE I UNDERSTAND YOUR
QUESTION CORRECTLY.
11:51:29AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M CONFUSED TO THE POINT OF WHAT I
HEARD.
NOT WHAT I THINK.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
WE'RE CLOSING AN ALLEY AND EVERYBODY IS -- SOME PEOPLE ARE
OBJECTING TO IT, BUT IT'S ALREADY CLOSED.
NOT LEGALLY.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE.
11:51:46AM >> YES, SIR, I AGREE.
11:51:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:51:48AM >>BILL CARLSON:
ONE MORE QUESTION BASED ON WHAT'S HAPPENING.
APOLOGIES TO THE PETITIONER.
I'M CERTAIN WE'LL GIVE EXTRA TIME FOR THIS.
THE PETITIONER TESTIFIED AND HANDED OUT A DOCUMENT REGARDING
A TITLE INSURANCE SURVEY.
SORRY IF I PARAPHRASE, IT SAID ESSENTIALLY THAT THE PRIOR
OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY HAD ABANDONED THE ALLEY.
HAS THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT REVIEWED THOSE DOCUMENTS TO MAKE
ANY JUDGMENT AS TO WHETHER THAT'S TRUE OR NOT?

11:52:23AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
AGAIN, IT'S NOT THE CITY'S POSITION TO
RESOLVE PROPERTY BOUNDARY DISPUTES.
BUT I HAVE REVIEWED THE SUBDIVISIONS THAT WERE MENTIONED.
THIS WHOLE THING WAS A PART OF CB SHAW'S SUBDIVISION
ORIGINALLY.
AND THEN IN 1981, NOT 1987, I THOUGHT IT WAS 1981, THAT'S
WHEN CHICAGO AVENUE TOWNHOME SUBDIVISION WAS CARVED OUT OF
CB SHAW'S.
AND THEN THEIR BOUNDARY LINES OF THAT SUBDIVISION, IT DOES
NOT INCLUDE THE ALLEYWAY.
11:52:55AM >>BILL CARLSON:
FROM THE CITY'S POINT OF VIEW, IF YOU ALL
THOUGHT, IF THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT THOUGHT THAT THE ALLEY WAS
ALREADY ABANDONED, THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH
THE WHOLE PROCESS.
11:53:04AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
THE ALLEY HAS NEVER BEEN ABANDONED.
STILL THERE ON PAPER.
BASED ON 1907 PLAT OF CB SHAW'S.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I NEVER HEARD ANY INFORMATION THAT IT WAS
EVER OPEN TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR VEHICULAR TRAFFIC TO USE
THE ALLEYWAY.
11:53:21AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE CITY'S POINT OF VIEW, THE CITY STILL HAS
THE --
11:53:25AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
ON PAPER BASED ON 1907 PLAT.
11:53:28AM >>BILL CARLSON:
WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE

PROCESS.
11:53:31AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
AGAIN, THE REASON WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE
PROCESS, THE APPLICANT HAS COMPLIED WITH THE CODE IN THE
SENSE THAT THEY FILED THE NECESSARY PAPER WORK AND
DOCUMENTATION.
IT IS NOT THE CITY'S POSITION TO EITHER ADVOCATE OR --
EITHER SIDE.
WE SIMPLY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PRESENT THIS TO CITY COUNCIL
AND THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THE DECISION.
I APOLOGIZE FOR PUTTING YOU IN A DIFFICULT POSITION.
I THINK ALL OF THE DEPARTMENTS HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT THIS IS
A VERY UNIQUE SITUATION, AND THE OUTCOME IS REALLY
UNCERTAIN.
WHETHER THE VACATING IS APPROVED OR NOT, THE PROBLEM IS
STILL GOING TO BE THERE.
11:54:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.
11:54:10AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. MICHELINI, DID YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THE
ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY PROFFERED?
11:54:16AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
I STILL HAVE A QUESTION.
MR. WIGGINTON, AND I'M NOT -- IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO
SPLIT HAIRS.
I'M TRYING TO DEFINE THE ACCESS TO THE ALLEYWAY BECAUSE
THERE IS A WALL THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AND SHOWN ON PAPER.
THE DEFINITION OF ACCESS TO THAT ALLEYWAY, DOES THAT INCLUDE

VEHICLES ENTERING ONTO PROPERTIES?
IF SO, IS THAT WALL GOING TO HAVE TO BE CUT FOR AN APRON,
SOME FORM OF APRON TO BE PUT THERE SO THAT VEHICLES CAN
ENTER ONTO THE PROPERTY?
11:54:57AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
I THINK I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
AGAIN, WE ARE BASING THIS ALL ON A 1907 PLAT WHICH HAS AN
ALLEYWAY.
WE PRESUME IT IS FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY PURPOSES.
THAT'S WHAT THE STATUTE PROVIDES FOR, THAT IT IS FOR
RIGHT-OF-WAY PURPOSES.
SO AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO HAVE VEHICULAR TRAFFIC IN THERE,
CERTAINLY MOBILITY I BELIEVE IS ON THE LINE, AND THEY CAN
OPINE AS TO WHETHER THAT IS EVEN FEASIBLE OR NOT.
AS FAR AS THE APRON IS CONCERNED, YES, THEY WILL HAVE TO
CARVE OUT 12-FOOT SWATH.
11:55:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MORE THAN LIKELY SOMEWHERE IN THAT WALL FOR
--
11:55:28AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
EACH SIDE.
11:55:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
-- EACH TOWNHOME, WILL HAVE TO BE, BUT THAT
WALL, FROM THE TESTIMONY I HEARD EARLIER, WAS FOR WATER
RUNOFF.
SO MY QUESTION IS THAT SOMEONE, MAYBE EVERYONE, IS GOING TO
BE FINANCIALLY BOUND BY THE DECISIONS THIS COUNCIL MAKES.
11:55:49AM >>RON WIGGINTON:
AGAIN, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANY DECISION ON
THE VACATING MATTER IS GOING TO IMPACT THE PROBLEM.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE A JUSTIFICATION
FOR --
11:55:59AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MONETARY ISSUES ARE NOT BASIS FOR THIS
COUNCIL.
BUT I JUST MADE THAT STATEMENT.
EITHER WAY THIS COUNCIL GOES, SOME RESIDENTS ONE WAY OR THE
OTHER ARE GOING TO BE FACING SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DONE
WITH THEIR PROPERTY.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
NOW MR. SHELBY.
MR. VIK BHIDE, YOU WANTED TO MAKE STATEMENTS.
MR. BHIDE, RAISE YOUR RIGHT-HAND FOR ME, PLEASE.
11:56:30AM >>THE CLERK:
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY THAT
YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE
TRUTH?
11:56:35AM >>VIK BHIDE:
YES.
11:56:36AM >>THE CLERK:
THANK YOU.
11:56:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. BHIDE.
11:56:41AM >> GOOD MORNING COUNCIL, CHAIR.
VIK BHIDE, DIRECTOR OF MOBILITY DEPARTMENT.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE ONE STATEMENT RELATIVE TO ACCESS, AND
IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS RELATIVE TO THE SURVEY, I CAN ADDRESS
THOSE AS WELL BECAUSE THE CITY SURVEYOR FALLS UNDER THE
PURVIEW OF THE MOBILITY DEPARTMENT.
YOU HEARD FOR DECADES THIS ALLEY HAS NOT BEEN UTILIZED FOR

VEHICULAR ACCESS.
AND TO THAT END, IN ORDER TO FACILITATE ANY KIND OF ACCESS
THROUGH HERE, ENCROACHMENTS NOTWITHSTANDING, THERE'S A LOT
OF VEGETATION AND SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS WOULD HAVE TO BE
MADE BY THE CITY TO CREATE THAT ACCESS.
RELATIVE TO THOSE NEEDS ARE INVESTMENTS AND WHEN COMPARED TO
THE CITY'S PRIORITIES RELATIVE TO OUR CURRENT RESOURCES,
THAT WOULD NOT RISE UP TO THE LEVEL OF PRIORITY BASED ON THE
CURRENT NETWORK IN THE AREA.
I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT RELATIVE TO VEHICLE ACCESS.
WE ALSO HAVE LOOKED AT A HISTORY OF CONCERNS AND NOT FOUND
ANY MAJOR CONCERNS WITH THE STORMWATER PORTION BECAUSE THERE
IS A STORMWATER EASEMENT THROUGH THIS ALLEY CURRENTLY, AND
THAT IS WHY WE DETERMINED THAT A STORMWATER EASEMENT IS NOT
REQUIRED THROUGH THIS SHOULD THIS BE VACATED.
AND THEN AS FAR AS OUR SURVEYOR WAS CONCERNED, HE DID
CONDUCT A SURVEY IN THE AREA AND PRODUCED THE RESULTS THAT
ARE PART OF THE MATERIALS THAT WERE PRESENTED.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
11:58:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS?
THANK YOU, MR. BHIDE.
HOW ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF FOR ANY TYPE OF REBUTTAL FROM
EVERYTHING WE JUST DISCUSSED?
11:58:30AM >> I'VE ALREADY SAID IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION.
WHETHER YOU VACATE IT OR DON'T VACATE IT, IT STILL DOESN'T

GIVE THE CHICAGO TOWNHOMES ACCESS.
IT JUST DOESN'T.
IT WAS ABANDONED WHEN THEY REPLATTED THAT NORTH SECTION.
I UNDERSTAND THEIR FRUSTRATION.
THEY HAVE A WALL AND A FENCE THERE ALREADY.
THEY HAVE SELF-IMPOSED THEIR OWN RESTRICTION.
THE DESIGN OF THOSE TOWNHOMES WAS NOT UP TO ANYBODY ON THIS,
IT WAS UP TO THE DEVELOPER.
I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO PROVIDE THE RELIEF.
THIS PARTICULAR PETITIONER IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THAT HAS
ENCROACHMENTS INTO THE ALLEY.
THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT DO HAVE THE ENCROACHMENTS, WE'RE
SHIFTING THE RESPONSIBILITY BACK ONTO SOMEONE ELSE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GO WITH THIS, EXCEPT WE THINK IT'S AN
APPROPRIATE REQUEST.
THE ALLEY SHOULD STAND ON ITS OWN.
THE OTHER ISSUES WILL BE SORTED OUT ACCORDINGLY, WHETHER IT
GOES TO CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES OF CODE
ENFORCEMENT IS, IF YOU'RE CITED, YOU'RE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY
TO PROVIDE A CURE.
HOW DO YOU CURE THE ENCROACHMENTS?
THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS THROUGH A VACATING.
THE PETITION WAS TIMELY FILED TO DO THAT.
SO IT WASN'T AS IF THE CITY IGNORED ANY OF THOSE COMPLAINTS.
THE RESPONSIBILITY SHIFTED BACK TO THE PETITIONER AND THE

RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS, AND THEY
WERE TRYING TO CURE THAT ISSUE.
THE STAFF HAS TOLD YOU THAT THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS TO THIS
VACATING.
NONE OF THE UTILITIES THAT WERE SURVEYED IN THIS, AND THERE
ARE 14 DIFFERENT SURVEY CHECKPOINTS WITH WATER AND
TRANSPORTATION AND TECO AND EVERYBODY ELSE, THEY HAD NO
OBJECTIONS.
SO WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT YOU APPROVE THIS VACATING SO
AT LEAST WE CAN GET ONE PORTION OF THIS COMPLICATED ISSUE
RESOLVED.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
12:00:39PM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
12:00:41PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
BEFORE YOU CLOSE, I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING
FOR THE RECORD.
COUNCIL, MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY FOR THE
RECORD.
WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU IS AN APPLICATION TO VACATE AN
ALLEY, AND THAT IS THE TASK YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU.
YOU HEARD A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE AND ARGUMENT.
YOU'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE IT CONTINUED FOR THE
BENEFIT OF HAVING STAFF BROUGHT IN FOR ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY
AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
TO REMIND YOU AGAIN, COUNCIL, AND TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON
THE TASK IN FRONT OF YOU, I'M GOING TO CITE BACK TO THE

CRITERIA THAT MR. WIGGINTON HAD REFERENCED THROUGHOUT THIS
HEARING.
FROM A MEMO SPECIFICALLY FROM JULIA COLE, JULIA MANDELL,
SENIOR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY BACK THEN ON APRIL OF 2011
THAT LISTS THE CRITERIA.
AND THEY ARE IN THE MEMO, ITEMS 1 THROUGH 4, AND THOSE WERE
REFERENCED AGAIN BY MR. WIGGINTON.
I ASK THAT IF YOU DO MAKE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS, THAT
YOU DO MAKE FINDINGS OF FACT, AND ON THAT BASIS, YOU APPLY
THE FACTS AS YOU FIND THEM TO THE CRITERIA THAT'S IN FRONT
OF YOU, UPON WHICH YOU MUST BASE YOUR DECISION IN ORDER TO
BE LEGALLY SUSTAINABLE.
I ASK YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND IF YOU HAVE ANY
COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO WHAT YOUR MOTION IS, A DISCUSSION
AMONGST YOURSELVES WITH REGARD TO FINDINGS WOULD BE HELPFUL
FOR PURPOSES OF THE RECORD.
12:02:24PM >> MOVE TO CLOSE.
12:02:26PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HAVE A MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
12:02:33PM >> AYE.
12:02:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF COUNCIL?
12:02:45PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WELL, IT WAS MY TURN, SO I'M NOT GOING TO
PUT THE PRESSURE ON THE COUNCIL.

I APPRECIATE THE WAY YOU SAID THAT, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO
SAY WHAT I SEE HERE, WHAT I'VE SEEN, AND THEN WE CAN GO FROM
THERE AND DISCUSS IT.
MR. CHAIRMAN, ITEM 71, FILE VAC 22-41, THIS IS A CONTINUED
PUBLIC HEARING FROM OCTOBER 20, 2022, AND I'M GOING TO MOVE
IT FOR FIRST READING CONSIDERATION, AND THEN I'LL STATE WHY.
MOVE AN ORDINANCE PRESENTED FOR FIRST READING, AN ORDINANCE
OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, FLORIDA, VACATING, CLOSING,
DISCONTINUING, AND ABANDONING THAT ALLEYWAY NORTH OF STROUD
AVENUE, SOUTH OF CHICAGO AVENUE, EAST OF CAROLINA AVENUE,
WEST OF MOODY AVENUE, WITHIN THE PLAT OF CB SHAW'S
SUBDIVISION, IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY,
FLORIDA, AS MORE FULLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 2, HEREOF,
SUBJECT TO CERTAIN COVENANTS, CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS AS
MORE PARTICULARLY SET FORTH HEREIN; PROVIDING FOR
ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS; PROVIDING FOR
DEFINITIONS, INTERPRETATIONS, AND REPEALING CONFLICTS;
PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
AS I READ THROUGH THESE THINGS, I SAW SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT SAID, WELL, IT IS THE CITY'S PROBLEM.
MAYBE IT IS.
BUT THE TIME THAT THE CITY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE AT ALL OF WHAT
WAS GOING ON UNTIL THIS PETITION HIT HERE.
THEN SOME NEIGHBORS COMPLAINED AND RIGHTLY SO.
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.

HOWEVER, IN THEIR COMPLAINT IT WAS BROUGHT OUT THEN THAT THE
ALLEY WAS ILLEGALLY CLOSED WITHOUT BEING LEGALLY CLOSED, AND
THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
YEARS.
THEN COMES THE OTHER EVIDENCE THAT I WANT TO HAVE MY CAR BE
ABLE TO GO TO THE BACK.
WELL, THAT WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP PRIOR TO TODAY.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
AND I HAVE SYMPATHY FOR THAT.
BUT THEN I REALIZED HOW CAN YOU GET IN AND OUT OF YOUR ALLEY
IF PART OF IT IS CLOSED.
YOU CAN ONLY GO ONE WAY.
THAT WAY IS BLOCKED, HOW DO YOU GET OUT?
THERE IS A LOT MORE THAT MEETS THE EYE ON WHAT WE SPOKE
ABOUT TODAY.
THE CITY HAS DONE SOME WORK ON IT.
CODE ENFORCEMENT CAME BACK AND PUT IT ON THE RECORD THAT THE
ALLEY IS NOT RIGHT NOW USABLE FOR AUTO TRAFFIC AND MAYBE NOT
EVEN USABLE FOR FOOT TRAFFIC.
MAYBE I'M WRONG IN THE FOOT TRAFFIC PART, BUT I DON'T KNOW
IF I AM.
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
YOU HAVE VARIOUS CHOICES, ONE, TO REMOVE IT AND CLOSE IT.
ONE TO LEAVE IT LIKE IT IS, AND THAT DOESN'T SATISFY TOO
MANY BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE A CONFLICT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YOU HAVE FOUR OR FIVE THAT HAVE VIOLATED KNOWINGLY OR NOT
KNOWINGLY, MAYBE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY WITH THAT ALREADY THERE
AND I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT OR WE DON'T HAVE NO
KNOWLEDGE OF THAT.
SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR?
I CAN ONLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT I HEARD TODAY IN THIS
CHAMBER.
AND THE PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS
EVIDENCE TO CLOSE IT -- I MEAN, TO LEAVE IT OPEN, THERE WAS
EVIDENCE TO LEAVE IT OPEN AND RIGHTLY STATED, THE EVIDENCE
THEN TO CLOSE SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY CLOSED.
WHAT AM I DOING?
NOT SOMETHING NEW.
ALREADY CLOSED.
YOU CANNOT DRIVE THROUGH THE ALLEY.
YOU HAVE NEIGHBORS WHO, FOR WHATEVER REASON, HAVE TAKEN OVER
THE PROPERTY, KNOWINGLY OR NOT KNOWINGLY, BUT AGAINST CITY
LAW.
HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO TAKE?
IT MAY TAKE YEARS.
WHEN YOU GO TO COURT, FIRST, YOU GOT TO GO TO THE
MAGISTRATE.
THE MAGISTRATE IS GOING TO ISSUE HER OR HIS OPINION AND
LINGER ON FOR SOME TIME.
YOU APPEAL AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WILL BE HEARD.

NOT TRYING TO FORM EXCUSES AT ALL.
IT'S GOING TO CAUSE A HARDSHIP BETWEEN THE NEIGHBORS RIGHT
NOW.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO LIVE NEXT TO SOMEONE AND THAT SOMEONE
IS TELLING YOU YOU'VE GOT TO MOVE YOUR BUILDING THAT YOU
HAVE IN THE ALLEY.
ARE THEY GOING TO SPEAK TO THAT NEIGHBOR?
EMBRACE THAT NEIGHBOR AND SAY WHAT A NICE NEIGHBOR YOU ARE,
LOVE YOU?
YOU REALLY THINK THAT?
I DOUBT IT.
HUMAN NATURE IS YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO THAT NEIGHBOR
FOR A LONG TIME, MAYBE NEVER.
THERE'S NOT MORE THAN ONE NEIGHBOR.
THERE ARE FOUR OR FIVE NEIGHBORS WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE THAT
HAPPEN.
SO THAT'S WHY I MOVED IT.
TO ME, THE ALLEY IS ILLEGALLY CLOSED AND IT HASN'T BEEN
USED.
IT HASN'T BEEN USED TO PARK CARS IN THE BACK.
THAT ONLY CAME ABOUT WHEN THIS PETITION CAME UP, THAT THEY
SAY THEY WANT TO USE THE ALLEY.
HOW COME THEY WEREN'T USING THE ALLEY BEFORE?
MAYBE I'M WRONG.
THAT'S WHAT I HEARD.

THE ALLEY IS THERE.
THEY DIDN'T OPEN THE GATE AND MOVE THE CAR IN THE BACK.
THEY DIDN'T DO THAT, EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW ONE SIDE IS
CLOSED.
COME IN, BACK OUT, I GUESS, IF YOU WANT.
SO THAT'S THE REASON I MOVED THIS PETITION BECAUSE IT MAKES
SENSE OF WHAT I'M SAYING.
IT MAY BE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE RIGHT MOVE.
I'M NOT ASKING ANYONE TO VOTE FOR IT OR VOTE AGAINST IT.
YOUR OPINION JUST LIKE MINE IS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
12:08:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
12:08:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I'M GOING TO VOTE NO AND JUST TO STATE THE
REASONS WHY.
I THINK THE FACT THAT IT'S ILLEGALLY CLOSED IS IRRELEVANT
BECAUSE THE CITY STAFF TESTIFIED THAT THERE'S STILL AN
EXISTING EASEMENT.
JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN THE PAST ILLEGALLY CLOSED IT
DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHOULD BE SUBJECTED TO CURRENT OWNERS WHO
BOUGHT WITH THE EXPECTATION BASED ON THE PLAT THAT IT'S
OPEN.
AND I DON'T THINK IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GENERAL

WELFARE AND ALSO IT WILL LIMIT ACCESS TO THE ABUTTING
PROPERTY OWNERS IN ADDITION TO OTHER THINGS.
12:08:50PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
12:08:52PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I FIND MULTIPLE THINGS WRONG.
I DIDN'T SEE A PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE.
THE ALLEY IS DEEMED AN OPEN ALLEY.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT TOOK IT UPON THEMSELVES HOWEVER TO DO
WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO, AND THAT HAPPENS IN COMMUNITIES.
THERE WERE STATEMENTS ABOUT FOLKS CAN'T GET INTO THEIR
BACKYARD.
I SAW PHOTOS OF CONSTRUCTION WORK IN THEIR FRONT YARD.
LOOKED AT THE PHOTOS.
I CAN'T SUPPORT THE FACT THAT BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE
TRYING TO PUT THE BURDEN ON THIS COUNCIL, AND WE HAVE SOME
RESPONSIBILITY, BUT I THINK SOME OTHER BALLS WERE DROPPED.
I TRULY BELIEVE THAT.
I WISH SOMEHOW WE COULD GO BACK TO THE NEIGHBORS TO WHERE
THEY COULD FIGURE THIS OUT THEMSELVES OR WE SEE HOW WE CAN
HELP THEM TO REMEDIATE THIS PROCESS.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO OCCUR HERE, THAT THE NEIGHBORS
NEED TO REMEDIATE THIS PROCESS.
BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT IT, WHATEVER DECISION WE MAKE, WE'LL
PROBABLY GET SUED NO MATTER WHICH WAY WE GO BECAUSE YOU'LL
HAVE PROPERTY OWNERS UPSET.
YOU'LL HAVE THE NEIGHBORS WHO ARE OPPOSING IT.

FOR ME, I DON'T SEE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE.
I SEE MISTAKES MADE IN THE PROCESS EVEN THOUGH IT IS A
UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT WE CAN'T LOOK AND SAY -- I THINK
WHEN THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE EXTRA
STEPS TO HELP OUR CITIZENS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOK FOR US TO DO AS A MUNICIPALITY, TO
HELP THEM WITH SOME OF THE SITUATIONS.
WE CAN'T HELP ALL THE TIME, BUT I THINK IN THIS SITUATION
THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE A LITTLE BIT MORE.
I CANNOT SUPPORT MR. MIRANDA'S MOTION.
12:10:38PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS?
MR. SHELBY.
12:10:42PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE OF COMMENTS ABOUT PREPONDERANCE OF THE
EVIDENCE.
JUST FOR PURPOSES OF COUNCIL'S DECISION-MAKING, YOUR
DECISION IS NOT NECESSARILY BASED ON PREPONDERANCE OF THE
EVIDENCE OR BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, THAT KIND OF GUIDANCE
THAT ACTUALLY THE COURTS ASK FOR COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL
EVIDENCE CONTAINED WITHIN THE RECORD TO SUPPORT YOUR
DECISION.
WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK OF COUNCIL IS FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE
RECORD, I'D ASK THAT YOU ACTUALLY MAKE REFERENCE TO AT LEAST
THE CRITERIA TO BE ABLE TO BASE YOUR DECISION AND RELY ON

THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU ASCERTAINED RELATES TO THAT SORT OF
CRITERIA, THAT'S APPLYING THE CODE AND THEN SEEING WHERE THE
DECISION IS.
IF THIS CASE IS GOING TO BE CHALLENGED, IT'S GOING TO BE
CHALLENGED ON THE BASIS OF COUNCIL'S DECISION AND ITS
CRITERIA UPON WHICH IT BASES ITS DECISION.
12:11:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
BEFORE WE GO THERE, WHOEVER WANTS TO ADD TO
THAT MOTION, I'M LOOKING AT THE FOUR CRITERIA MYSELF.
THE FIRST ONE IS BASED ON REPORTS AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT
THE PUBLIC HEARING, IS IT IN THE INTEREST OF THE GENERAL
WELFARE TO VACATE THE SUBJECT STREET OR ALLEY, I.E., WILL IT
ALLEVIATE OR RELIEVE THE PUBLIC FROM THE COST OF MAINTAINING
THE RIGHT-OF-WAY WHICH IS NO LONGER USEFUL OR USED BY ONLY A
FEW MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
WE HAVEN'T MAINTAINED THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY IN 30 YEARS.
WILL IT ALLEVIATE PUBLIC NUISANCE SUCH AS DUMPING OR CURTAIL
CRIMINAL ACTIVITY?
WILL IT FOSTER REDEVELOPMENT BY ABUTTING PROPERTIES?
NUMBER TWO, WILL AN ABUTTING OWNER ACCESS -- AND I TRIED TO
GET SOMEONE TO DEFINE ACCESS, WHICH IS JUST DRIVING A MOTOR
VEHICLE DOWN THERE OR ACTUALLY ENTERING THE PROPERTY.
NUMBER THREE, CAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC INTEREST BE SERVED BY
APPROVING THE VACATING PETITION SUBJECT TO SPECIAL
CONDITIONS BEING IMPOSED, I.E., EASEMENTS?
NUMBER FOUR, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ACTUALLY IN THIS.

IF THE VACATING OF THE ALLEYWAY IS THE ENTIRE VACATING,
WHICH IT IS, IF NOT, THEN PROPER TURNAROUND OR CUL-DE-SAC
MUST BE PROVIDED.
I'M LOOKING AT THE FOUR CRITERIA HERE, AND I AM GOING TO GO
WITH TWO OF THEM IN MY VOTE.
I THINK THAT MR. SHELBY HAS ASKED FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE
DEFINITION IN THE MOTION, IS THAT CORRECT?
12:13:42PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WHEN A COURT REVIEWS THIS, IT WILL SEE THE
DECISIONS UPON WHICH COUNCIL BASES IT AND SEE IF IT APPLIES
THE CRITERIA AND IF THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS OF LAW HAVE
BEEN FOLLOWED.
IT'S COUNCIL, HOW IT WISHES TO PROCEED.
YOU'VE BEEN ADVISED ABOUT HOW YOU MUST BASE YOUR DECISION,
UPON WHICH YOU MUST BASE YOUR DECISION IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE
LEGALLY SUSTAINABLE.
12:14:04PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I JUST READ REASONS WHY I AM GOING TO DO
MINE.
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO --
12:14:09PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NO, MIRANDA.
12:14:10PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
ROLL CALL VOTE, PLEASE.
12:14:17PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
12:14:18PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.

12:14:21PM >>BILL CARLSON:
NO.
12:14:22PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NO.
12:14:24PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
12:14:25PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
12:14:27PM >>THE CLERK:
THE MOTION CARRIED WITH CARLSON AND GUDES
VOTING NO AND HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
SECOND READING AND ADOPTION WILL BE HELD ON DECEMBER 15,
2022, AT 9:30 A.M.
12:14:38PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.
12:14:38PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, AGAIN THAT DATE IS --
12:14:42PM >>THE CLERK:
DECEMBER 15 AT 9:30 A.M.
12:14:45PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
TO REMIND COUNCIL THIS IS COMING BACK FOR A
SECOND READING AND A PUBLIC HEARING.
I'M GOING TO CAUTION COUNCIL TO AVOID ANY EX PARTE
COMMUNICATIONS AND DISCUSS THIS PUBLICLY.
ALSO, IF YOU DO GET ANY ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATIONS THAT ARE
SENT TO YOU EX PARTE THAT YOU PUT THEM IN THE QUASI-BOX.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCIL.
12:15:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE ARE RECESSED UNTIL 1:30.
12:15:05PM >>STEVE MICHELINI:
THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
[LUNCH RECESS]


(ROLL CALL)
1:34:15PM >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
1:34:18PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE OF ONE THING.
WE ARE GOING TO GO TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 69 FIRST.
THAT WAS BEING CONTINUED UNTIL THIS TIME.
IF THERE IS ANYONE THAT IS GOING TO BE GIVING ANY EVIDENCE
TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 69, FILE NUMBER AB 2-22-19, WOULD YOU
PLEASE RISE AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE SWORN IN?
(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK)
1:34:59PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
OKAY, WE ARE GOING TO NOW TAKE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 69, FILE
AB 2-22-19.
AND STAFF IS HERE.
MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ.
1:35:19PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ, SENIOR
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
ITEM NUMBER 69, I BELIEVE, AND MS. MANDELL CAN CONFIRM ALL
OF THIS, BUT I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS GOING TO BE REMOVING
THEIR REQUEST FOR OFF PREMISES CONSUMPTION FROM THIS REQUEST
IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT STATE LAW DOESN'T REQUIRE
OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION IN ORDER TO DO THE ALCOHOL TO GO.

AND IN LIGHT OF RESPONSE TO COUNCIL'S COMMENTS.
SO RATHER THAN SECOND READING AND ADOPTION THIS AFTERNOON,
WE ARE GOING DO GO BACK TO FIRST READING OF THE ORDINANCE.
WE ARE GOING TO REMOVE OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION FROM THE
TITLE OF THE ORDINANCE, AND WE'LL HAVE FIRST READING OF THE
REVISED ORDINANCE AT THIS TIME.
1:36:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL RIGHT.
LET'S GO TO MS. BARNES.
MS. BARNES?
YOU ARE MUTED.
1:36:17PM >>ANNIE BARNES:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
1:36:23PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, MA'AM.
1:36:24PM >>ANNIE BARNES:
OKAY, SORRY.
SO I JUST HEARD WHAT MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ STATED.
IS IT MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST
READING OR IT'S GOING TO GO BACK TO FIRST READING?
1:36:36PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IT'S GOING TO BE THE FIRST READING.
1:36:38PM >>ANNIE BARNES:
GOT IT.
OKAY.
1:36:40PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIRMAN.
DOES THAT MEAN WE HAVE TO HAVE A FULL PRESENTATION ON THE
FIRST READING? BECAUSE WE ARE REALLY JUST MAKING AN
ADJUSTMENT THAT'S LESS THAN WHAT IT WAS THE FIRST TIME
AROUND.

DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN JUST SEND IT BACK TO FIRST READING OR
DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER FIRST READING PUBLIC HEARING?
1:37:03PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
I THINK THIS CAN BE DONE -- WELL, WE
ALREADY HAD THE PRESENTATION.
THEY ARE JUST REDUCING THE REQUEST.
1:37:11PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
RIGHT.
SO WHAT SORT OF PRESENTATION, IS IT GOING DO A PRESENTATION
OR JUST GOING BACK TO FIRST READING?
1:37:16PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
JUST GOING BACK TO FIRST READING.
THE ONLY THING BEING REMOVED IS TO LESSEN THE REQUEST, SO --
1:37:23PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND MADAM CLERK, WHAT DO --
1:37:32PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
WE'LL HAVE A SUBSTITUTE ORDINANCE AT
SECOND READING.
1:37:36PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
A SUBSTITUTE ORDINANCE.
FOR YOUR PURPOSES?
1:37:39PM >>THE CLERK:
[OFF MICROPHONE]
1:37:47PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
ARE YOU ON MIKE?
1:37:49PM >>THE CLERK:
FOR THE COUNCILMEMBER TO MAKES THE MOTION AND
I WILL MAKE SURE THAT THE TITLE REFLECTS.
1:37:59PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
1:38:00PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. BARNES, WOULD YOU PLEASE --
1:38:10PM >>ANNIE BARNES:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
ITEM 69 IS AB2-22-19 BEING PRESENTED NOW FOR FIRST READING
FOR SPECIAL USE 2 FOR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES FOR LARGE

VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES FOR BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR
LOCATED AT 450 CHANNELSIDE DRIVE.
SITE PLANS WERE DROPPED OFF AT CITY HALL EARLIER THIS WEEK.
THERE WILL NEED TO BE A MODIFICATION TO ANY MENTION OF
OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION ON THE CURRENT SITE PLAN BETWEEN
THIS FIRST READING AND SECOND READING.
1:38:42PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS FROM STAFF?
MS. MANDELL?
1:38:48PM >>JULIA MANDELL:
FOR THE RECORD, JULIA MANDELL, GRAY
ROBINSON, 401 EAST JACKSON STREET, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
AS YOU HAVE HEARD MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ AND MS. BARNES INDICATE,
WE ARE REQUESTING THAT THIS ITEM BE TAKEN BACK TO FIRST
READING SO THAT WE CAN REMOVE THE OFF-PREMISES PACKAGE
SALES.
AS I SAID EARLIER, AND WAS DISCUSSED AT THE FIRST READING,
IT IS NOT THE DESIRE TO DO ANY OFF-SITE PACKAGE, THAT WAS TO
GO ORDERS OF ALCOHOL AS PART OF THE RESTAURANT LICENSE THAT
THEY HAVE WITH THE STATE.
I WOULD SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT ALL THE TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE THAT WAS PUT INTO THE RECORD AT THE PREVIOUS FIRST
READING HEARING BE PLACED INTO THIS RECORD AS WELL, AND WE
WOULD JUST SEEK YOUR APPROVAL WITH THIS CHANGE, AND I AM
AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
1:39:37PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
WILL REVISIONS BE MADE BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND READING?

1:39:46PM >>JULIA MANDELL:
I APOLOGIZE, YES, WE WILL MAKE ALL
NECESSARY REVISIONS TO THE SITE PLAN AS INDICATED BETWEEN
FIRST AND SECOND READING.
1:39:52PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO AGENDA
ITEM NUMBER 69?
SEEING NONE, DO WE HAVE ANYONE ONLINE?
MR. COOKE, ARE YOU THERE?
CAN YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE SWORN IN, PLEASE?
(OATH ADMINISTERED BY CLERK)
1:40:28PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU ARE MUTED.
1:40:33PM >>THE CLERK:
UNMUTE YOURSELF.
1:40:36PM >> I DO.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM.
1:40:50PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CLOSE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO,
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
COUNCILMAN BE MANISCALCO, WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THIS?
1:40:58PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU.
I HAVE AN ORDINANCE BEING PRESENTED FOR FIRST READING, AN
ORDINANCE APPROVING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SU-2 FOR ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGE SALES LARGE VENUE CONSUMPTION ON PREMISES ONLY AND
MAKING LAWFUL THE SALE OF BEVERAGES REGARDLESS OF ALCOHOLIC
CONTENT, BEER, WINE AND LIQUOR AT OR FROM THAT CERTAIN LOT,
PLOT OR TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT 450 CHANNELSIDE DRIVE AS

MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3 PROVIDING THAT ALL
ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT ARE REPEALED,
REPEALING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2014-91 PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE
DATE.
1:41:32PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SECOND.
1:41:36PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
WITH THE REVISIONS BETWEEN FIRST AND
SECOND READING.
1:41:39PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ROLL CALL VOTE, PLEASE.
1:41:45PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
1:41:48PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
1:41:49PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
1:41:50PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
YES.
1:41:53PM >>BILL CARLSON:
NO.
1:41:54PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
1:41:56PM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION CARRIED WITH CARLSON VOTING NO AND
HURTAK BEING ABSENT.
SECOND READING AND ADOPTION WILL BE HELD ON DECEMBER 15,
2022 AT 9:30 A.M.
1:42:05PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
CAN SOMEONE --
1:42:16PM >>> MOVE TO OPEN THE 1:
30 ITEM, NUMBER 73.
1:42:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NUMBER 72, CAN WE REMOVE THAT?
1:42:25PM >> SO MOVED.

1:42:26PM >> SECOND.
1:42:27PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
RESCHEDULE?
1:42:30PM >>THE CLERK:
JANUARY 5th OR JANUARY 19th.
1:42:35PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS TO JANUARY
19th.
1:42:38PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SECOND.
1:42:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LEGAL HERE FOR THIS, I HAVE A QUESTION.
HOW MANY TIMES -- THANK YOU, MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ.
HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS THING BEEN CONTINUED?
1:42:58PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY CONTINUE
REQUESTS FOR THIS ITEM.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS JUST SCHEDULED ON OCTOBER 6th FOR
TODAY.
1:43:10PM >>THE CLERK:
THIS WOULD BE THE SECOND REQUEST.
1:43:14PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THIS WILL BE THE SECOND REQUEST FOR A
RESCHEDULING?
1:43:17PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
SO THIS COULD BE THE FINAL REQUEST
THEN PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION.
1:43:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AND HOPEFULLY THE PETITIONER WILL BE
NOTIFIED?
1:43:25PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
YES, PETITIONER WILL BE NOTIFIED.
1:43:27PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO TO CONTINUE
THIS CASE -- TO MOVE IT TO JANUARY 19th.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?

ANY OPPOSED?
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 73, FILE E-2022-8 CHAPTER 27.
1:43:45PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
COUNCIL, ITEM 73 IS A PRIVATELY INITIATED TEXT AMENDMENT.
THERE ARE TWO PRIVATELY INITIATED TEXT AMENDMENTS THAT I
WILL INTRODUCE TO YOU TODAY.
ONE, I DO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME IN ALLOWING US TO COME BEFORE
YOU TO REQUEST THESE.
SO AS YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY IN THE CODE, PRIVATELY INITIATED
TEXT AMENDMENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED.
THIS IS THE LAST OF PRIVATELY INITIATED AMENDMENTS ANDS THE
FIRST ONE I WILL INTRODUCE TO YOU IS THE ONE FOR THE EAST
TAMPA OVERLAY.
THIS IS A PART OF THE JANUARY CYCLE.
THE JANUARY 2022 AMENDMENT CYCLE.
THE APPLICANT IS EAST TAMPA CRA AND THE EAST TAMPA CAC.
THE REQUEST IS TO REVISE AND UPDATE THE CURRENT EAST TAMPA
OVERLAY CODE LANGUAGE.
SO IT WOULD INCLUDE AMENDING 27-156, ALONG WITH 27-140 WHICH
IS THE ACTUAL EAST TAMPA OVERLAY DISTRICT STANDARD.
THIS IS A MAP OF THE EAST TAMPA OVERLAY DISTRICT, THAT AREA.
YOU CAN SEE THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY, BUT IT IS APPROXIMATELY
IN THE VICINITY NORTH OF EAST HILLSBOROUGH, THE INTERSTATE
275 THE WESTERN BOUNDARY, ALONG WITH THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY,

AND THEN IT GOES OVER TO 56th STREET AND JOGS WITH THE
CITY LINE ON THE EAST.
SO THE REQUEST IS TO, ONE, PROVIDE A CLEAN UP FOR THE ITEMS
LISTED IN SECTION 27-156, WHICH IS OUR USE TABLE.
WE ARE MOVING ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT THAT'S LISTED INTO THE
CORRECT USE CATEGORY IN THAT TABLE.
AND THAT IS A CHANGE THAT IS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF.
THE OTHER CHANGE WOULD BE TO ALLOW ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT
AS A SPECIAL USE FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE EAST TAMPA
OVERLAY.
THOSE ARE THE TWO CHANGES TO THAT SECTION OF THE CODE.
THE REMAINDER OF THE CHANGES ARE JUST 27-240 WHICH IS THE
EAST TAMPA OVERLAY.
IT WOULD AMEND THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE FRONT YARD SETBACK
WHICH IS CURRENTLY REQUIRED AS A BLOCK AVERAGE, AND THAT
WOULD BE AMENDED TO A RANGE OF 15 TO 25 FEET.
THIS ALSO WOULD REQUIRE CHANGE TO GARAGES IN THE SETBACK FOR
GARAGES.
CARPORTS SETBACKS FOR THE CARPORTS, THE SIDE YARD SETBACK.
THIS ALSO WOULD INCLUDE A CHANGE REGARDING CHAIN LINK
FENCES, AND THESE ARE NEW CHAIN LINK FENCES.
ANY ADJUSTING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN.
BUT THE INSTALLATION OF NEW CHAIN LINK WOULD BE PROHIBITED.
AND THEN ALSO THE LAST CHANGE PROPOSED IS FOR THE
RESIDENTIAL SECTION IS TWO-STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.

THEY CAN BE APPROVED IF IT IS THE PRECEDENT OF THE BLOCK.
NOW, THE NONRESIDENTIAL STANDARDS, SO THIS IS FOR COMMERCIAL
MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.
WE ARE ADDING A CLEAN-UP REGARDING THE SITE PLAN SUBMISSION
AND WHAT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT FOR YOUR REVIEW FOR THE
OVERLAY DISTRICT STANDARDS THAT WILL BE LIKE ANY OTHER
LOCATION, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE A LANDSCAPE PLAN AND
ELEVATION, JUST CLARIFYING THAT IN THE CODE.
THE FRONT YARD BUILD-TO LINE RANGE, INSTEAD OF AN AVERAGE,
BECAUSE CURRENTLY THE AVERAGE, THE FRONT YARD APPLIES TO
BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING FACADE, THE ORIENTATION OF THAT,
WOULD BE AMENDED, MINIMUM REQUIREMENT FOR SIDEWALKS,
SCREENING REQUIREMENTS, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, PARKING
STANDARDS REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE ESTABLISHED THROUGH PARKING
TRADE-OFFS WHICH IS ALWAYS ENCOURAGED BY STAFF WHENEVER
THERE IS AN AMENDMENT COMING FORWARD, AND THEN SIGN
STANDARDS, LASTLY.
IT'S WHAT WOULD BE PRESENTED TO YOU.
SO THIS REQUEST, AS I MENTIONED THE APPLICANT IS THE EAST
TAMPA CRA, ALONG WITH THE CAC, SO WE HAVE MR. FREDERICK
McCLAY WHO IS THE EAST CRA MANAGER WHO IS AVAILABLE IN
CASE THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, AND WE HAVE KIM HEADLAND HERE.
SHE'S THE CHAIR OF THE EAST TAMPA LAND USE COMMITTEE.
SO KIM IS GOING TO PRESENT TO YOU THE LANGUAGE.

AND I AM AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
1:48:11PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
1:48:14PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
REAL QUICK.
IN THE FIRST, ONE OF THE FIRST SLIDES, IT WAS THE
CORRECTIONS, SO RIGHT NOW IN THE OVERLAY, ADUs ARE NOT
PERMITTED, CORRECT?
AND THIS WOO CHANGE THAT?
1:48:28PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
THIS WOULD CHANGE THAT AND ALLOW IT AS A
SPECIAL USE FOR PROPERTIES LOCATED WITHIN THE EAST TAMPA
OVERLAY.
IT WAS THE DESIRE OF THE COMMUNITY, IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND,
AND WE UNDERSTAND ALSO THAT THAT DISCUSSION IS HAPPENING
WITH COUNCIL, SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH STAFF WITH, CITY PLANNING,
ALONG WITH DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION, BUT THIS WAS A WISH TO
INCLUDE IT IN THIS LANGUAGE, AND WHICHEVER IS ADOPTED FIRST
WOULD APPLY.
AND.
1:48:57PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
WOULD BE IN REGARDS TO THE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING SITUATION.
ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU.
1:49:01PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I'M CAUTIOUS.
WE HAVEN'T APPROVED THESE YET IN THE CITY.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE TRYING TO APPROVE IT NOW.
WE HAVEN'T APPROACHED IT IN THE CITY YET.

I'M CAUTIOUS, THAT I JUST DON'T WANTS A CERTAIN PART OF TOWN
TO BE THROWN WITH ADUs AND CONTINUE OUR SOUTHERN BLOCK
BECAUSE TO ME IT BRINGS ON MORE TRANSITS, PEOPLE, IN AND
OUT.
I WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE -- TELL THEM SPECIAL USE BECAUSE I
COULD JUST PULL UP ANYTHING, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY, AND
EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS, MY CONCERN
IS TO ME COULD BE A DUMPING GROUND ON THE EAST SIDE OF TOWN,
AND BUYING PEOPLE'S HOMES.
1:49:54PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
ABSOLUTELY, COUNCIL.
I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN.
ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION, JUST TO KEEP THIS MIND THAT
CURRENTLY IN THE SPECIAL DISTRICTS LIKE IN SEMINOLE HEIGHTS
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT USE.
BUT IT IS LIMITED TO THAT, AND IT IS LIMITED TO TWO OTHER
AREAS IN THE CITY WHICH IS SPECIFIED WITHIN OUR USE TABLE.
SO, YES, IT INCLUDES THE EAST TAMPA OVERLAY AREA, TO ALLOW
IT, THE SPECIAL USE, WHAT THAT IS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO APPLY
FOR APPLICATION THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION OFFICE.
AND IT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW, AND THERE ARE CERTAIN
STANDARDS THAT MUST BE MET.
AND YOU WOULD APPLY THAT WAY.
THEY ALL DON'T COME BEFORE COUNCIL UNLESS FOR WHATEVER
REASON IT'S DENIED AND IT COMES BEFORE YOU ON APPEAL.

1:50:35PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I AM JUST CAUTIOUS.
YOU SAY SPECIAL BUT I AM JUST CAUTIOUS.
IT HASN'T BEEN APPROVED FOR THE WHOLLY CITY YET AND WHEN I
SAW THE PRESENTATION CERTAIN AREAS WILL NOT BE INCLUDED.
SO SOMEONE JUST THROWING A BUNCH OF ADU'S ON THE EAST SIDE
OF TOWN, BUT I WILL LISTEN TO THE PRESENTATION.
BUT I AM VERY HESITANT RIGHT NOW.
1:51:00PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
I UNDERSTAND.
1:51:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
1:51:07PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.
1:51:10PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU.
JUST FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING ON TELEVISION OR WHATEVER.
EXPLAIN WHAT AN ADU IS SO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.
1:51:18PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
WE HAVE CURRENTLY IN THE CODE AN ACCESSORY
DWELLING UNIT, AN ADU, AND THEN WE HAVE THE OTHER WHICH HAS
BEEN THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION WHERE WE DISCUSSED ADUS ON THE
EXTENDED FAMILY RESIDENCE.
1:51:31PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AND THE ADUs, ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR
FAMILY MEMBERS, AM I CORRECT?
1:51:37PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
THE EXTENDED FAMILY RESIDENCE IS FOR A
FAMILY MEMBER.
YOU CANNOT CHARGE RENT.
AND IT HAS CERTAIN STANDARDS ATTACHED WITH IT ALSO.
BUT THE ADUs IS NOT STRICTLY FOR THE FAMILY MEMBER.
CURRENTLY IN THE CODE.

1:51:53PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I HEARD WHAT MR. GUDES SAID, AND I
UNDERSTAND HIS APPREHENSION.
FROM THE NORTH, WAY NORTH OR WAY SOUTH IS NOT INCLUDED IN
HERE.
I THINK THERE WAS ONLY TWO AREAS INCLUDED IN THE ADUs FOR
EXTENDED FAMILY --
1:52:19PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
EXTENDED FAMILY RESIDENCES ARE ALLOWED
CITY-WIDE WITH THE APPROVAL.
THE ADUs ARE THE ONES THAT ARE LIMITED.
SO WHAT WOULD BE BEFORE YOU IN THE LANGUAGE TODAY CURRENTLY
IN THIS PARTICULAR ITEM WOULD COVER THE EAST TAMPA OVERLAY.
AND THIS IS THE BOUNDARIES OF THE EAST TAMPA OVERLAY.
1:52:38PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'M NOT AGAINST WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
ACHIEVE.
BUT WHAT I AM VERY APPREHENSIVE ABOUT IS IN ESSENCE IT'S A
LOT THAT'S ZONED RESIDENTIAL THAT IS A DUPLEX WHICH IS NO
LONGER RESIDENTIAL.
I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT I WILL.
IN SOME INSTANCES, NOT MAYBE IN THIS INSTANCE, BUT IN SOME
INSTANCES THEY ARE RENTED OUT, THEY DON'T PAY ANY AD VALOREM
TAX, THEY DON'T PAY ANY SALES TAX, AND THEY DON'T PAY ANY
TAX TO THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY POCKET THE CASH MONEY,
AND I HAVE HEARD COMPLAINTS, NOT IN THIS CASE, DON'T GET ME
WRONG, BUT IN SOME AREAS WHERE YOU CHARGE RENT AND YOU CAN
ONLY PAY BY CASH.

THEY WILL NOT TAKE A CHECK.
THAT WAY THERE'S NO TRAIL BACK.
AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT FOR PEOPLE THAT CALLED MY OFFICE
THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO HAVE THE RECORDS THAT I HAVE IF YOU
WANT TO LOOK AT THEM.
1:53:33PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND
YOUR CONCERN.
AND WE UNDERSTAND AND WE EXPLAINED IT TO THE APPLICANT THAT
THIS ADU DISCUSSION IS ONGOING.
COUNCIL HAS NOT DECIDED EITHER WAY.
WE STILL HAVE THIS LANGUAGE THAT IS MOVING BEFORE YOU AT THE
PUBLICLY INITIATED AMENDMENT, ALONG WITH THIS ONE AS A
PRIVATELY INITIATED.
AND THE APPLICANT UNDERSTOOD, WHICHEVER WOULD TAKE EFFECT
FIRST IS WHAT WILL BE IN PLACE.
OR THEY COULD HOLD --
1:54:02PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I THOUGHT YOU ARE DOING AN EXCELLENT
JOB, EXCELLENT PRESENTATION, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE -- YOU
HAVE TO HAVE THIS FORM TO BE GRANTED.
BECAUSE I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
BUT I AM A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE OF WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN
CERTAIN AREAS OF THE TOWN, WHERE ONE DAY IT'S A HOUSE WITH A
FRONT DOOR, THE NEXT DAY IT'S A HOUSE WITH TWO SIDE DOORS
AND A FRONT DOOR AND THEN A SIDEWALK LEADING AROUND WITH A

LOCK ON THE OUTSIDE LIKE A DOOR HANDLE, NOT A LOCK, A DOOR
HANDLE WITH A KEY, AND THEN THERE'S A LITTLE PLASTIC FENCE,
THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LITTLE PLASTIC FENCE WITH
ANOTHER DOOR GOING IN, AND HAVING A BEEHIVE.
ONE HIVE WITH A LOT OF BEES.
ONE HOUSE WITH A LOT OF DOORS.
THE THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING.
AND THIS IS GOING ON.
AND IT'S BEEN A PROBLEM AS FAR AS THE SCHOOL IS COLLECTING
NO TAX ON IT BECAUSE A CITY TAX, AD VALOREM TAX.
THERE IT IS.
THE COUNTY PAYS THEIR PORTION.
BUT THE SCHOOL BOARD IS -- I AM NOT A TAX EXPERT, BUT LOOK
AT THE COUNTY, LOOK AT THE CITY, AND THE AD VALOREM TAX IS
ABOUT THE SAME.
AND THE SCHOOL BOARD IS TWICE THE AMOUNT THAT THE COUNTY
GETS, GIVES THE COUNTY AND THE CITIES, SOME OF WHICH THE
SCHOOL BOARD SHOULD BE GETTING, AND THE SCHOOL BOARD IS
BEING CHEATED OUT.
AND I AM NOT HERE ABOUT YOU.
BUT THEY ARE GETTING CHEATED OUT OF THAT MONEY AND THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THEY PAY NO TAX AT ALL ON MONEYS THEY
COLLECT FROM RENT.
AND I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND
MR. GUDES' APPREHENSION TO SOME POINT, BECAUSE IT'S RAMPANT

THROUGHOUT PARTS OF THE CITY.
AND IT'S GOT TO STOP.
SO I DON'T WANT TO GIVE SOMEONE AN YOU DIDN'T THAT COULD DO
SOMETHING, SO WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT THEY
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LAW IS, AND WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS ARE
SO THEY DON'T BREAK THE LAW.
1:56:04PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
ABSOLUTELY.
KEEPING IN MIND ALSO, COUNCIL, AS YOU HAVE THIS DISCUSSION
REGARDING THE ADUs, AND AS THE VOTERS MADE, AS TO THE
REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT ADU, IT CAN CERTAINLY TAKE PLACE
OVER -- WHETHER CITY-WIDE OR BY AREA, WHICHEVER IS DECIDED
UPON, BUT IF IT IS CITY-WIDE, OR IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE
IT EVEN TAKE EFFECT OVER THE OVERLAYS PORTION OF THIS
REQUEST WOULD BE REMOVED.
WE STILL HAVE TIME.
I AM GOING TO REVIEW WITH YOU ALSO THE PROCESSING SCHEDULE.
THIS IS THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS.
I BELIEVE THE ADU DISCUSSION AND VOTE WILL OCCUR BEFORE THIS
COMES BACK BEFORE YOU FOR FIRST READING.
BUT WE DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REMOVE IT IF NEEDED -- OR
TO AMEND IT BASED UPON THE VOTE.
ON THE OVERALL ADU DISCUSSION.
1:56:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
1:57:00PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
OKAY.
I WILL TURN IT OVER TO TIM.

AND I AM AVAILABLE AT ANY POINT FOR ANY QUESTIONS, COUNCIL.
THANK YOU.
1:57:06PM >> I BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE A PRESENTATION --
1:57:20PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I'M SORRY.
1:57:22PM >> I BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE A PRESENTATION.
MY NAME IS KIM HEADLAND.
I HAVE SERVED OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AS THE LAND USE CHAIR
FOR THE EAST TAMPA PARTNERSHIP.
I HAVE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING IN THE PAST DECADE ON
AND OFF FOR CACs, EAST TAMPA CAC.
SO A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY REGARDING HOW WE CAME HERE.
BACK IN 2016, UNDER EVANGELINE BEST WHO WAS THE CHAIR AT THE
TIME, THE LAND USE COMMITTEE BEGAN TO LOOK AT THE OVERLANDS
AND THE THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING IN EAST TAMPA, AND THERE
WAS A DIRECTIVE TO GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE COMMITTEE BEGIN
WORK ON LOOKING AT REVISIONS TO THIS OVERLAY.
IN 2018, THE CAC AT THE TIME APPROVED FUNDING TO APPLY FOR
THE PRIVATELY INITIATED TEXT AMENDMENT, AND A DRAFT WAS
SUBMITTED.
IN 2019, CITY STAFF MADE RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THAT DRAFT
AND REQUESTED AN EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF CHANGES.
THIS DRAFT WAS THEN TABLED BETWEEN 2019 AND 2021 AS THE CAC
TACKLED OTHER BIGGER ISSUES THAT THE COMMUNITY NEEDED TO
DEAL WITH AT THAT TIME.
AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, I WAS ASKED AS LAND USE CHAIR TO

TAKE A LOOK AT THE OVERLAY AGAIN.
WE BROUGHT IT -- BROUGHT IT BACK SINCE OCTOBER OF 2021, WE
HAVE PRESENTED THIS AND TAKEN FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY AT
TWO PARTNERSHIP MEETINGS AND A SEPARATE MEETING.
SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHANGES.
I WILL GIVE A BROAD OVERVIEW COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU JUST
HEARD.
SO AGAIN, THE ALLOWANCE OF ADUs WITHIN THE EAST TAMPA
OVERLAY, THE LOTS OF RECORD IS CLARIFIED IN THE OVERLAY.
SETBACK AND ORIENTATION.
IT IS A RANGE IS GIVEN TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY TO
FOLKS THAT ARE PROVIDING IN-FILL HOUSING.
PERMITTED CARPORTS, CARPORTS WITHIN THREE FOOT OF THE
PROPERTY LINE, AND GARAGE LOCATIONS, THE TWO-FOOT SETBACKS
AS MS. DOCK OUTLINED.
ALLEY ACCESS FOR PARKING AND TRANSPARENCY REQUIREMENTS WERE
ALSO INCLUDED.
I GUESS I HAVE A CLICKER.
THERE WE GO.
SO THE COMMUNITY WAS VERY INTERESTED IN ENSURING THAT THE
FRONT OF THE HOME, THE FOCUS REMAIN ON THE FRONT OF THE HOME
WHICH IS WHERE THE TWO-FOOT SETBACK CAME INTO PLAY.
SO THAT LANGUAGE HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE DOCUMENT.
AGAIN, CARPORTS BEING ALLOWED WITHIN THREE FOOT OF THE
PROPERTY LINE.

SO THAT IN-FILL HOUSING CAN BE AS COMPATIBLE WITH THE
COMMUNITY AS POSSIBLE.
THE ALLOWANCE FOR USE OF THE ALLEY FOR PARKING, IF THE ALLEY
IS NOT VACATED.
THIS IS NOT A REQUIREMENT.
THIS IS ONLY ENCOURAGED AND OPTIONAL.
WE LOOKED AT THE TRANSPARENCY REQUIREMENTS, WHICH THE WAY
THE OVERLAY REVISIONS ARE WRITTEN.
THE COMMITTEE AND THE COMMUNITY WAS INTERESTED IN ENSURING
THAT THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF BLANK WALLS AND CEPTED ISSUES,
THAT WERE KIND OF PROLIFERATED THROUGHOUT EAST TAMPA, SO
THIS WOULD REQUIRE WINDOWS OR DOORS OR ALL SIDES OF
RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES WITH A MINIMUM TRANSPARENCY OF 15%,
SO BASICALLY THAT ONE WALL WHICH HAD A SMALL WINDOW.
ADUs.
THIS WAS A REALLY SIGNIFICANT CONVERSATION AMONGST THE
COMMUNITY THAT WAS BROUGHT UP OVER THE LAST YEAR IN RESPONSE
TO A FEW THINGS.
HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, YES, WITH YOU ALSO IN RESPONSE TO
GENERATIONAL LIVING AND BEING ABLE TO AGE IN PLACE.
OUR NEIGHBORS DIRECTLY TO THE NORTH IN SEMINOLE HEIGHTS ARE
ABLE TO HAVE ADUs, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF INTEREST FROM
THE COMMUNITY IN THOSE INITIAL PARTNERSHIP MEETINGS TO ALSO
HAVE THAT OPTION FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
AND THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, THEY MAY BE LOCATED ON

SINGLE-FAMILY PARCELS OR IN CONFORMING ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
AND THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART, IS THE CONFORMING, THAT THEY
ARE LEGAL BUT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH THE SPECIAL USE
PROCESS, AND THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH PERMITTING.
THOSE WERE THE CHANGES PROPOSED ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE OF
THE OVERLAY.
ON THE NONRESIDENTIAL SIDE, WE LOOKED AT TRANSPARENCY
REQUIREMENTS, SETBACK, ORIENTATION, AND RANGES, SIDEWALKS,
OPEN STORAGE SCREENING, PARKING REQUIREMENTS, SIGN
STANDARDS, ADAPTIVE REUSE OF EXISTING BUILDINGS AND
NEIGHBORHOOD MAIN STREETS.
AND THOSE TWO WERE REALLY LOOKED AT IN COLLABORATION WITH
THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE TO ENSURE THAT NEW
DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT WE HAVE, BUT ALSO
THAT EXISTING SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, EXISTING STAKEHOLDERS,
ARE ABLE TO ADAPT AND MODIFY THEIR PROPERTIES WITHOUT BEING
PENALIZED OR WITHOUT HAVING TO FIND REALLY EXCESSIVE
SOLUTIONS TO ITEMS SUCH AS PARKING.
JUMPING BACK TO THE FENCING, NO NEW CHAIN LINK OR NEW
NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, URBAN STORAGE MUST BE SCREENED
WITH OPAQUE MATERIAL MATCHING THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
THIS IS FOR OPEN STORAGE.
IT'S ALSO FOR DUMPSTER ENCLOSURES AND ENCLOSURES OF THAT
NATURE.
SIDEWALKS, THE COMMUNITY FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT 6-FOOT

SIDEWALKS SHOULD BE REQUIRED ON COLLECTOR OR ARTERIAL ROADS
TO ENSURE WALKABILITY WITHIN THE GREATER EAST TAMPA AREA.
PRINCIPAL FACADES.
SO MAIN ENTRIES SHALL FACE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY OR THE ENTRY
COURTYARD AND CREATE THAT STREET EDGE.
YOU CAN SEE ONE OPTION ON THE RIGHT THERE THAT ADDRESSES THE
STREETSCAPE.
MAIN STREET, THE ONE BIG CHANGE HERE IS THAT THE MAIN
STREETS ARE DESIGNATED TO COORDINATE WITH THE COMMUNITY
STRATEGIC ACTION PLAN, AND INCENTIVIZE REDEVELOPMENT
OPPORTUNITIES WERE CREATED IN TERMS OF PARKING REDUCTIONS
AVAILABLE FOR ADAPTIVE REUSE, OR JUST REUSE OF EXISTING
BUILDINGS.
OUR BUSINESSES THAT CHANGED THAT MAY HAVE DIFFERENT
PARKING -- THERE'S AN INCENTIVIZATION THERE FOR THAT
REDEVELOPMENT.
THEN THE PARKING REDUCTIONS THAT I JUST WENT OVER, AGAIN
ENCOURAGING THAT ADAPTIVE REUSE, ENCOURAGING THAT
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL AND IMPROVEMENTS TO EXISTING
BUILDINGS, AND EMBRACING MULTIMODAL TRANSIT IN THAT WAY.
THOSE WERE THE CORRIDORS IDENTIFIED AS PART OF THE STRATEGIC
ACTION PLAN AND THEY HAVE BEEN OUT LINED AGAIN AS PART THAT
NONRESIDENTIAL SECTION AT THE OVERLAY, THE REQUESTED CHANGES
TO THE OVERLAY.
AND THEN FINALLY, THE SETBACK RANGE, SIMILAR TO THE

RESIDENTIAL SECTION.
THIS CREATES A RANGE INSTEAD OF THE BLOCK ARCHING, AND IT
GIVES A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY TO DEVELOPERS WHILE STILL
CREATING THAT COHESIVE WALK THAT ADDRESSES THE STREET EDGE,
AND HOPEFULLY CREATES NEW IN-FILL DEVELOPMENT THAT'S AS
COMPATIBLE AS POSSIBLE WITH THE EAST TAMPA COMMUNITY.
2:06:28PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
2:06:33PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU FOR THIS PRESENTATION.
AND I THINK THERE WAS AT LEAST TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE NEW
COLUMBUS DRIVE CORRIDOR AND WHAT THEY DID WITH THE CROSSWALK
WITH THE MUCH WIDER SIDEWALKS.
I HAVE DRIVEN THROUGH THERE FOREVER, BEFORE AND NOW, AND
IT'S TRANSFORMATIVE.
IF YOU COULD APPLY NO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN I GO TO YBOR, I
HAVE DO GO TO KING, I TAKE 15th NORTH. IF WE COULD DO
THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE PROPOSED CHANGES, TO MAKE
15th LOOK MORE LIKE COLUMBUS DRIVE, OR IN REGARDS TO
ANOTHER PART, THE CHAIN LINK FENCES, MAKING THEM WHERE THEY
ARE NOT EXISTING BUT ANYTHING NEW THAT IS COMPATIBLE I THINK
THAT WOULD OFFER SOME KIND OF UNIFORMITY.
IT'S A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS LIKE THIS, AND YOU MENTIONED
ADAPTIVE REUSE IN A LOT OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS, A LOT OF
BRICK STRUCTURES.
THIS IS WONDERFUL.
WHEN I SAY WONDERFUL, THE ZONING, A LOT OF THE ZONING LAWS

COME INTO PLAY, I THINK IN THE 1980s, AND BEFORE THAT, YOU
KNOW, THE CODES -- WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CODES FOR SMARTER
DEVELOPMENT.
AND LOOKING AT THESE PROPOSED CHANGES WITHIN THE OVERLAY, IT
WILL ALLOW US TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND IMPROVE THE
QUALITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE LOOK, THE FEEL, THE T
SAFETY, THE WIDER SIDEWALKS, THE COMPLETE STREET PROJECTS.
THERE'S JUST SO MANY THINGS THAT WOULD BE TRANSFORMATIVE IN
THE SENSE THAT YOU ARE IMPROVING THE QUALITY FOR THE PEOPLE
THAT ARE THERE, AND INCREASE PROPERTY VALUES.
IT LOOKS BETTER.
IT'S SAFE.
THERE'S JUST SO MANY THINGS.
AND YOU TOUCHED ON A LOT OF STUFF.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IT.
2:08:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
2:08:31PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AGREE WITH MR. MANISCALCO UP TO A
POINT.
WHEN YOU SHOWED COLUMBUS DRIVE, WHICH IT DOES LOOK VERY
NICE, AND I USE IT QUITE OFTEN, THEN YOU SHOW THE NEXT SET,
26th AVENUE, THAT'S THE ONE THAT HAS THE -- ONE CORNER
USED TO BE A FEED STORE, THEN A DRUGSTORE, A STORE THAT WE
HAD TO CLOSE, THAT I DON'T RECOGNIZE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.

BUT NOT IN THE AREA WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T BELIEVE.
IS THIS A PICTURE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA?
2:09:07PM >> LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET BACK.
I'M NOT SURE.
2:09:10PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THAT'S 15th STREET.
2:09:14PM >> THAT IS NOT WITHIN EAST TAMPA.
THAT IS WITHIN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD BUT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE.
2:09:21PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHEN I SAW THAT, I THOUGHT IF I DROVE
THROUGH IF MY MEMORY IS GOING WITH ME.
I THOUGHT VERY NICE.
I WISH IT WAS HERE BUT IT'S NOT.
BUT THE OTHER ONES I KNOW VERY WELL.
I LIKE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
HOWEVER, YOU ALLOW THE CHAIN LINK FENCE IN RESIDENTIAL, AND
THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.
AND IN MY PART THE REASON IS, YOU CAN SEE ON THE OTHER SIDE
OF THE FENCE THERE, IF YOU PUT EVERY RESIDENCE AND YOU PUT A
FIVE-FOOT CLOSED PLASTIC FENCE, YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT'S ON THE
OTHER SIDE.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING.
2:09:59PM >> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE WITH THE FENCING REVISIONS
THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED THAT ANY FRONT YARD FENCING WOULD
HAVE TO MATCH WHAT THE CITY OF TAMPA REQUIRES, WHICH IF IT
IS A CLOSED FENCE, A CLOSED TICKET FENCE, BUT IN THE FRONT
IT HAS TO BE REMAIN THREE FOOT BUT IT CAN ONLY GO HIGHER IN

THE BACK.
THE CHAIN LINK WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS A REQUEST THAT WENT
ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2016 WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT THIS,
AND IT WAS SOMETHING FOLKS FELT STRONGLY ABOUT, JUST TO
IMPROVE THE OVERALL AESTHETICS.
2:10:33PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I UNDERSTAND.
BUT I GOT THE TWO FEET, THE THREE FEET, THAT'S WONDERFUL, IT
LOOKS VERY NICE, AND YOU ARE RIGHT, THE SETBACK ON A PLASTIC
FENCE, WHAT YOU HAVE WANT CALL IT, PANEL FENCE.
HOWEVER, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT, THERE'S TWO THINGS YOU HAVE
GOT TO LOOK AT.
FIRST OF ALL, DOES IT OPEN FROM THE OUTSIDE?
IF IT DOES, WATCH OUT IF YOU HAVE A RENTAL PROPERTY BEHIND
IT.
IF IT'S SOLID AND IT'S OPEN ONLY FROM THE INSIDE YOU DON'T
HAVE A RENTAL PROPERTY BACK THERE.
SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I ALWAYS LOOK AT WHEN I AM
DRIVING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IN MY MIND I CAN TELL
YOU WHERE THEY ARE ALL AT.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.
BUT WHEN YOU START WITH SOMETHING GOOD, SOMETHING WONDERFUL,
SOMETHING FRESH, SOCK THAT'S NEEDED, YOU ALWAYS GOT TO LOOK
OUT FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT, AND USING
YOU -- AND AS A SCAPEGOAT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, AND
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.

WHEN YOU SEE THAT AND YOU SEE A LITTLE SIDEWALK THAT GOES
FROM THE FRONT TO THE LEFT OR TO THE RIGHT AND TO A SETBACK
ON THE OTHER SIDE WHERE THEY HAVE RENTAL PROPERTIES ON BOTH
SIDES.
I CAN SHOW YOU ALL THAT.
BUT I AM NOT HERE -- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PROGRAM.
I AM TELLING YOU WHAT IT COULD BE AFTER YOU DO THIS.
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE VIGILANT, AND STAY ON IT ON A DAILY BASIS
BECAUSE IT DOES CHANGE ON A DAILY BASIS.
2:11:58PM >> I THINK THAT'S WHERE ALSO NEED HELP FROM THE CITY IN
TERMS MUCH CODE ENFORCEMENT.
2:12:04PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
BUT YOU CAN'T DO WHAT YOU WANT TO THE
DO.
THAT'S ALL I AM GOING TO SAY.
YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, ASK A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AT.
2:12:17PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
2:12:18PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK THE PRESENTATION IS GREAT AND YOU
WORKED A LONG TIME AND YOU HAVE GOT SOME TEAM MEMBERS OVER
THERE NOW WHO ARE NOW GETTING THE BALL MOVING IN EAST TAMPA,
WHICH I LOVE, WHICH I SAY WHEN YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE
IS POWER, AND YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE OVER THERE THAT
WANT THE COMMUNITY LOOK DIFFERENT.
BRING A DIFFERENT FLAVOR, AND WE NEED THAT, IN OUR
COMMUNITY.

TALKING ABOUT CHAIN LINK, RIGHT NOW CAN'T AFFORD TO GET IT,
YOU KNOW.
SO I UNDERSTAND THE VINYL FENCING, I UNDERSTAND CHAIN LINK.
EITHER OR.
BUT TO THINK FOR ME, IT'S MAKING SURE, THE ADU IS A STICKLER
FOR ME.
I'M JUST GOING TO BE CANDID WITH YOU.
THAT'S A STICKLER FOR ME.
I KNOW WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS.
I KNOW -- MY MAIN FOCUS.
BUT PUTTING STUFF WITH OTHER HOUSES AND BRINGING DOWN
VALUES, AND MR. MIRANDA SAID, THERE'S A CYCLE TO WHERE WE
HAVE PEOPLE IN AND OUT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO IS COMING OR
GOING SOMETIMES.
I MEAN, THAT'S A CHALLENGE INFORM ME, AND I WANT TO TRY TO
IMPROVE OUR COMMUNITY.
BUT IN THE SAME TOKEN IT'S A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD.
WE NEED HOUSING AS WELL.
AND RIGHT NOW, FOR ME, IN EAST TAMPA, AND WE HAVE TO PUT AN
ORDINANCE IN PLACE FOR THE CITY.
THE ADUs IS AS CHALLENGING AS THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, SO
RIGHT NOW, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING FOR THE CITY YET.
SO THAT'S A PROBLEM WITH THEA DU RIGHT NOW.
WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WITH THE ORDINANCE, MAYBE MS. DOCK
CAN ANSWER THAT.

2:14:30PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
THIS IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO REVIEW WITH YOU, COUNCIL, THE
TIMELINE THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US NOW.
SO CURRENTLY TODAY, THIS ITEM IS BEFORE YOU AS A WORKSHOP,
OR DISCUSSION, AND IT IS IN THE EARLY PHASES OF THE
PROCESSING.
THE NEXT STEP WE ARE GOING TO BRIEF THE PLANNING COMMISSION,
AND THAT WILL BE IN DECEMBER.
AND THEN WE WOULD DO THE PLANNING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING,
WHICH IS IN JANUARY.
AND THEN WE COULD CIRCLE BACK TO CITY COUNCIL NO SOONER THAN
FEBRUARY.
THE FIRST MEETING.
2:15:06PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WHEN IS THE IF I'S FIRST ORDINANCE COMING
BACK?
2:15:12PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
I BELIEVE NEXT MONTH OR EARLY JANUARY AT
THE LATEST.
2:15:16PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WISH MS. McCRAY WERE HERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ADUS WERE IN EAST TAMPA.
BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMUNITY KNOWS ABOUT
ADUs.
I KNOW SEMINOLE HEIGHTS, WHEN I LOOK AT THAT MIDDLE CORE
RIGHT THERE, I DON'T KNOW FINANCE THEY REALLY KNOW ABOUT
WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHAT IT IS.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY KNOW, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE

PROPERTY OWNERS UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS.
AGAIN, I AM ALL ABOUT HOUSING.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE HOW WE ARE GOING TO CRAFT IT, TO
KIND OF CONTROL IT ASSOCIATION CONTROL IT A LITTLE BIT TO
WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TRANSITS GOING IN AND OUT.
I NEED HOUSING BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM ABLE TO
CONTROL IT A LITTLE BIT.
2:16:07PM >>KIM HEADLAND:
I CAN TELL YOU, COUNCILMAN GUDES, WE DID
HAVE TWO PARTNERSHIP MEETINGS WHERE WE COVERED ADUs IN
DEPTH, INCLUDING KIND OF DISCUSSION OF PROS AND CONS.
WE ALSO HAD THIS PRESENTATION WITH ADUs INCLUDED AT TWO
CAC MEETINGS AS WE PREPARED AND LOOKED TO ENSURE THAT WE HAD
THE SUPPORT GOING FORWARD TO COME HERE TODAY, AND TO START
THIS PROCESS AGAIN.
THE ADU IS ONE REALLY SMALL PIECE OF THIS OVERLAY REVISION.
IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S A STICKING POINT, I THINK IT'S
SOMETHING THAT WE COULD, WITHIN THE TIME FRAME WE HAVE, WE
COULD TAKE THAT ONE PIECE AND GO BACK TO THE COMMUNITY AND
DISCUSS FURTHER AND HOLD A FEW MORE PUBLIC INFORMATION
SESSIONS WITH NEIGHBORHOODS TO ENSURE THAT EVERYBODY IS ON
THE SAME PAGE AS WE ARE STANDING HERE ASKING FOR THIS.
BUT AGAIN IT'S A SMALL PIECE, AND I THINK WE HAVE THE
ABILITY TO TAKE THAT OUT, AND MAYBE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE
DISCUSSION ABOUT IT AND HEAR ANY OTHER POINTS THAT --
2:17:24PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I LIKE THE PRESENTATION.

EVERYTHING ELSE, I MEAN, THE SIDEWALKS, AND THOSE CORRIDORS.
I ALWAYS SAID WE HAVE TO LOOK AT 15th, 22ND, 34th,
29th, AND WE HAVE TO MAKE THOSE LOOKABLE, LIVABLE.
I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
JUST MY STICKING POINT, SO WE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TIME BEFORE
IT HAS TO BE PRESENTED.
AM I CORRECT ON THAT?
2:17:49PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
CORRECT, COUNCILMAN GUDES.
THIS IS THE LAST CYCLE FOR THE PRIVATELY INITIATED TEXT
AMENDMENTS.
ONE TWO OF THINGS COULD OCCUR.
COUNCIL COULD DIRECT THE APPLICANT, OR JUST ASK IF THAT
LANGUAGE WOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE OVERALL REQUEST, SO THAT
COULD BE REMOVED REFERENCE TO THE ADU.
THE REST OF THE LANGUAGE MOVE FORWARD, BASED ON HOW COUNCIL
DECIDES ON THE ADU DISCUSSION AT A LATER POINT, WE COULD
CERTAINLY CIRCLE BACK AS PART OF OUR PUBLICLY INITIATED
AMENDMENT TO REVISE IT TO INCORPORATE CHANGES TO THE EAST
TAMPA OVERLAY.
IF THE ADU --
2:18:30PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I DON'T WANT TO HURT THE FOLKS WHO WORKED
SO HARD. I WANT TO MAKE SURE IF I CAN MAKE SURE THAT THAT
MIDDLE CORE IS ON BOARD WE CAN GO FORWARD. IF IT'S WHAT THE
CONSTITUENTS WANT, I AM NOT GOING TO FIGHT WITH WHAT THE
CONSTITUENTS WANT BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME

CONSEQUENCES COULD BE WITH ADUs, ESPECIALLY IN THE EAST
TAMPA AREA; THAT'S WHY I WANT TO BE CLEAR.
UP TO THE NORTH END OF TOWN, SULPHUR SPRINGS AND TRYING TO
CLEAN UP SOME OF THE BLIGHT, WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS,
BECAUSE I AM TELLING YOU ONCE YOU START, EVERYBODY WHO IS A
PROPERTY OWNER IS GOING TO BE WANTING TO BUILD SOMETHING
BACK THERE OR ADD ON SOMETHING, TO HAVE ADDITIONAL, AND YOU
ARE GOING TO HAVE TRAFFIC AND SOMEONE BRINGING COMMUNITIES
THAT EQUITY IS NOT THERE YET, AND THAT IS MY ONLY POINT.
IT'S NOT LIKE SOUTH TAMPA, PALM A SEE, A NEW TAMPA, THESE
PLACES.
IT'S NOT THERE IN SO OF THESE SMALLER PLACES.
AND THAT'S MY CONCERN, IT WOULD MAKE THINGS WORSE AND MAKE
THEM BETTER.
2:19:35PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
UNDERSTOOD.
ABSOLUTELY.
I BELIEVE WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE HAVE THE TIMELINE.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN ADDITION TO TAG PUBLIC COMMENT TODAY,
AT TODAY'S WORKSHOP, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE ARE MEMBERS
HERE TO SPEAK, WE WOULD ALSO ALLOW PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE
PLANNING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN THERE'S AN
OPPORTUNITY OF COURSE BY THE TIME WE GET BACK --
2:19:59PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO WE HAVE TIME.
2:20:00PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
-- FOR FIRST READING.
BUT KIM CAN GO BACK TO THE GROUP AND GET FEEDBACK AND DECIDE

WHAT SHE'S LIKE TO DO WITH THAT LANGUAGE OR WHAT THE
CONSENSUS IS FOR THE COMMUNITY.
AND BY THE TIME WE COME BACK BEFORE YOU FOR FIRST READING IF
YOU ARE COMFORTABLE, IF COUNCIL IS COMFORTABLE, WE CAN
CERTAINLY LET NOW AT THAT TIME WHAT IT IS.
2:20:16PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT.
2:20:19PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
WE WILL HAVE ENOUGH TIME.
2:20:22PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME.
2:20:24PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
YES.
2:20:25PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, THEN COUNCILMAN
MIRANDA.
2:20:27PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
REAL QUICK, IN REGARDS TO BE -- MY ONLY
CONCERNS THAT COUNCILMAN GUDES HAD, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES,
AND WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS.
THIS WOULD BENEFIT A LOT OF PEOPLE.
BUT YOU OPEN THE FLOODGATES AND YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
AND ONE THING THAT I WILL MENTION, IS AN ARTICLE THAT I SAW
A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO.
I DIDN'T READ IT.
I SAW THE HEADLINE.
I SAVED IT.
BUT I WANT TO SAY WALL STREET JOURNAL, MAYBE NEW YORK TIMES,
ONE OF THOSE.
BUT IT WAS SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF ONE OF THE
CO-FOUNDERS OF AIRBNB IS WORKING WITH MUNICIPALITIES, BEHIND

THE SCENES, TO CHANGE CODES, TO CHANGE -- AND I SAID, THIS
MAY BE IN REGARDS TO -- I DON'T KNOW, AND THEN YOU HAVE
THESE UNITS, AIRBNBs AND WHATNOT, AND NOT FOR TWO
RESIDENTIAL.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE ARTICLE SAYS ALL THAT.
I BRIEFLY LOOKED AT IT.
I SAVED IT.
BUT LET'S LOOK AT EVERYTHING.
BUT OWNER OCCUPIED, THESE ADUs THAT THEY ARE CHARGING
RENT, AND THOSE THAT LIVE IN THE LARGER HOUSE, THE MAIN
HOUSE ARE CHARGING RENT, UNLESS IT'S A FAMILY MEMBER.
BUT OR IT'S AN AFFORDABLE SITUATION IN CREATING A BETTER
AFFORDABLE HOUSING OPTION FOR PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY HOW THINGS
ARE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
SO I AM JUST SAYING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING, LOOK AT
ALL THE EVIDENCE.
BUT I THINK ADUs IN THE END ARE BENEFICIAL WHEN PROPERLY
USED, WHEN THE GUIDELINES ARE FOLLOWED, AND HOW WE REGULATE
THEM AND HOW PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO RENT THEM OUT.
SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE WHAT APARTMENTS COST, WHAT HOMES
FOR RENT COST, AND PEOPLE ARE IN NEED OF THIS HOUSING.
SO THANK YOU.
2:22:17PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
COUNCILMAN.
2:22:19PM >> COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
2:22:21PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AGREE WITH MY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

I AM GOING TO SUPPORT THIS TODAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE OVER 90
DAYS BEFORE THIS FIRST READING ON FEBRUARY 2nd OF '23.
HOWEVER, AT THAT TIME, IT'S EASY TO SAY, EXTENDED FAMILY
RESIDENCE.
THEY ARE ALL GOING TO SAY THEY ARE EXTENDED FAMILY
RESIDENCE.
YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
HUMAN NATURE.
WE DON'T LIE, WE JUST HINGE A LITTLE BIT ON THE TRUTH.
AND I AM NOT CALLING ANYBODY A LIAR.
DON'T GET ME WRONG.
BUT WE MUST HAVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE FAMILY
MEMBERS.
AND WITH ALL THESE ANCESTRY THINGS YOU HAVE NOW I DON'T
THINK IT'S THAT DIFFICULT TO FIND OUT THEY REALLY ARE.
LET'S FACE IT.
AND THEY WERE NEVER USED.
THAT'S WHY EVERYBODY IS LIVING THE WAY THEY ARE, WHICH IS
TRUE.
HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT THE CASE WE HAVE IN THESE CASES.
AGAIN I AM GOING TO SUPPORT IT TODAY, BUT THE EXTENDED
FAMILY MEMBERS MUST BE VERIFIABLE.
IT USED TO BE WE TAKE A PICTURE WHEN YOU CAME INTO THE
OFFICE, DOWN THE ROAD, AND EVERY YEAR, THEY GO GOING TO ON
THE DOOR, AND VERIFY THAT PICTURE WITH THAT FACE.

I WONDER IF WE ARE STILL DOING THAT.
I AM NOT ASKING.
I AM JUST WONDERING.
I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T WANT TO CREATE NO PROBLEMS.
BUT GIVING YOU AN IDEA WHERE WE ARE COMING FROM.
IT'S GOT TO BE VERIFIABLE.
THERE'S A THING I SAY IN HORSE RACING, TRUST BUT VERIFY.
AND I LEARNED THAT IN THE OTHER JOB, BECAUSE PEOPLE TELL YOU
THE TRUTH, OR HOW THEY INTERPRET IT TO BE TRUTH TRUTHFUL,
AND WHEN THEY TELL YOU, WHAT I AM SAYING IS, THIS HAS GOT TO
BE DONE IN A MANNERISM WHERE WE WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE TO HAVE
A PLACE TO LIVE.
THERE'S NO DOUBT.
NONE OF US HERE ARE AGAINST THAT.
HOWEVER, WE WANT TO VERIFY ALL THE FACTS BEFORE WE LET
SOMETHING START, BECAUSE ONCE YOU LET THE HORSE OUT OF THE
CORRAL, THAT HORSE IS NOT COME BACK.
AND WE HAVE OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE CITY IS RUN THE RIGHT WAY.
AND IT'S GOT TO BE WHERE EVERYTHING IS VERIFIABLE AND IT'S
NOT GO IN A WAY, SO MUCH, OKAY, FINE.
BUT THESE THINGS, IT'S GOING TO BE A CATASTROPHE WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE BECAUSE THAT'S ANOTHER PART.
THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I LIVE IN, I GUESS EVERYBODY IS

RELATED.
THAT'S ALL I AM GOING TO SAY.
I THINK YOU GOT THE DRIFT OF THE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND I'M SORRY IS THE I IN ANY WAY HAMPERED YOU ARE -- I AM
NOT TRYING TO DISRUPT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO.
I AM TRYING TO VERIFY TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY THAT
DOESN'T HAPPEN, THAT WE HAVE DO GET ANOTHER DEAL TO FIND OUT
WHAT IT'S WORTH AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO ON
THE PROPERTY, PRIVATE PROPERTY.
BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I APPRECIATE IT.
2:25:20PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
2:25:24PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I WILL BE VERY SHORT.
I SUPPORT THE IDEA OF LOOKING IF WE CAN DO IT.
BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE DO IT LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WE HAVE
TO MAKE SURE TO HAVE CONTINUED OVERSIGHT AND REVISIT IT FOR
ANY EXCESSES, OR NEED FOR MODIFICATION.
THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S OBVIOUS.
THE OTHER THING I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN IS WHAT THE
COMMUNITY THINGS.
SO I DO LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM FOLKS OUT THERE TODAY.
THANK YOU.
2:25:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL RIGHT.
IF ANYONE IS GOING TO -- I'M SORRY, FINISH YOUR
PRESENTATION.

2:25:58PM >> KIM HEADLAND:
I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK, VERY WELL
TAKEN, AND HE CAN TAKE THIS AND ANY INFORMATION WE HEAR
TODAY BACK TO THE PARTNERSHIP.
2:26:13PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MS. HEADLAND.
IF ANYBODY IS IN CHAMBERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT, PLEASE
FORM A LINE ON MY LEFT, YOUR RIGHT.
AND NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO GO OVER THERE.
ONE PERSON CAN STAND AT THE POT YUM AND MAKE THE FIRST
STATEMENTS.
2:26:29PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YOU HAVE GOT THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN
COUNCILMAN'S DAUGHTER HERE TODAY.
MS. HARVEY.
2:26:41PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.
2:26:44PM >> I'M JIM HARWOOD, 2002 EAST LEMON STREET, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
I AM ALSO THE OWNER OF A COMMERCIAL CENTER AT 2409 EAST LAKE
AVENUE.
IT POTENTIALLY HAS FIVE COMMERCIAL SPACES, TWO RESIDENTIAL
SPACES, IT'S AN AREA THAT'S BEEN SERVING THE COMMUNITY SINCE
THE 1950s.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT CONSIDERATION BE GIVEN TO
ADDING EAST LAKE AVENUE BETWEEN, SAY, 22ND STREET TO
34th STREET, AS A PART OF THE AREA WHERE YOU CAN HAVE
REDUCTION IN PARKING, POTENTIALLY REDUCTION IN RETENTION,
BECAUSE THAT WOULD ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT IN AN AREA THAT'S
REALLY WITH COMMERCIAL SERVICES ARE REALLY NONEXISTENT.

WE SERVE THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT OVER ON EAST LAKE AVENUE,
AND WE ARE CURRENTLY ENGAGED, OR CURRENTLY BEING ENGAGED IN
REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT AREA.
AND I THINK IT WOULD HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL IMPACT GIVEN THE
LACK OF COMMERCIAL SERVICES IN THE COMMUNITY.
THANK YOU.
2:28:07PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
2:28:12PM >> TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
I REMEMBER WHEN I USED TO GO TO MR. HARVEY'S STORE.
THEY WERE A VITAL PART OF THAT COMMUNITY.
OKAY.
I'M HERE WITH THREE OF MY NEIGHBORS.
TWO OF THEM ACTUALLY.
WE ARE ALL PROPERTY OWNERS.
SOME OF THE HOUSES --
2:28:37PM >> COULD I HAVE YOUR NAME, PLEASE?
2:28:38PM >> I'M SONYA HARVEY McCOY.
I THOUGHT -- I APOLOGIZE.
IN ONE CASE, I BELIEVE THAT FAMILY HAS BEEN IN THAT HOUSE
ABOUT 80 YEARS?
A LONG TIME.
I HAVE BEEN IN MY HOUSE SINCE I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD.
OKAY.
I'M 70 NOW.
OKAY.

IT IS MY FAMILY HOUSE.
THE LADY BEHIND ME, THEIR HOUSE HAS BEEN IN HER FAMILY I
KNOW A GOOD 60, 70, 80 YEARS.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ADUs, THEY ARE NOT BENEFICIAL IN OUR
AREA.
AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY.
IN MY AREA, MY NEIGHBORS DO WELL WITH THEIR YARDS.
THE ISSUES WE HAVE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD NOW ARE PEOPLE THAT
DO NOT OWN HOMES.
WHEN YOU ALLOW PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR MONEY, WE LOVE
WHERE WE STAY, OKAY.
WE LOVE IT TO THE POINT I -- YOU IMAGINE PEOPLE WHO DON'T
LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE NO HISTORY, OR SOMEONE
WHO BUYS THE HOUSE, SIMPLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF RENTING IT,
YOU ARE GOING TO HURT THOSE OF US THAT ARE TRYING TO
MAINTAIN.
I WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU.
MY SON AND MY NIECE AND NEPHEW SAID I WAS CRAZY, OKAY?
YOU HAVE GOT TO KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY.
YOU HAVE GOT TO KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY.
IF YOU ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN, IT WILL CHANGE THE
NEIGHBORHOOD.
NOW, I WANT TO SAY, WE DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE HOMELESS
IN THAT AREA.
OKAY.

AND WE FOUGHT THAT.
SO YOU CAN'T TELL ME IN HONESTY THAT THESE RESIDENCES WERE
NOT BUILT UP, PEOPLE WILL BUY THEM FOR INVESTMENT PROPERTY,
AND NOT REALLY CARE ABOUT IT.
THANK YOU.
HAVE A GOOD DAY.
2:30:57PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
2:30:58PM >> GOOD AFTERNOON.
ALISON HEWITT AGAIN, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
I WANT TO SAY THAT THE COMMITTEE, ONE OF THE THINGS IS TO
MAKE SURE THAT COMMITTEE IS COORDINATED ON ISSUES, AND SO
THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CHAIR, WE ATTENDED AND HAD
CO-MEETINGS, SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO THIS.
SO ADUs WERE ONE OF THE FEW THINGS THAT HAD THE -- THEY
COME TOGETHER AND SUPPORT.
I SUPPORT IT BECAUSE I AM A THIRD GENERATION.
MY MOTHER IS ACTUALLY HERE IN THE AUDIENCE AND SHE WAS IN
THE HOUSE 59 NOW?
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE MEETINGS WAS THAT
A LOT OF RESIDENTS ARE AGING AND THEY ARE TRYING TO GET
THEIR KIDS BACK, AND THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO LEAVE THE
HOUSE, BUT THEY DON'T WANT THE BIG HOUSE.
SO A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME TO THE COMMITTEE LIKE, OKAY, WE CAN
MOVE OUR PARENTS INTO A SMALLER HOUSE, ON THE PROPERTY, TO
BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM AND BEING ABLE TO KEEP THE

GENERATIONAL CONVERSATION CAME UP A LOT IN OUR
CONVERSATIONS, AND THEN THERE WERE THOSE WHO WANTED TO BE
ABLE TO SUPPLEMENT THEIR INCOME, BUT THERE WASN'T A LOT OF
CONVERSATION ABOUT RENTING TO STRANGERS.
THERE WERE A LOT OF FAMILY ORIENTED CONVERSATIONS THAT THE
MEETINGS AND AT THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
SO WE DO RECOMMEND AND HOPE THAT STRONG OVERSIGHT WITH THIS,
TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS NOT MANIPULATED IN A WAY THAT'S NOT
GOOD FOR EAST TAMPA CRA, BUT KIM IS VERY PATIENT, BECAUSE WE
HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS FROM THE COMMUNITY, LOTS
OF VERIFICATION, AND WE HOPE FOR YOUR APPROVAL.
THANK YOU.
2:33:07PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
2:33:09PM >> MY NAME IS ERNESTINE KEITH, AND I ALSO USED TO GO TO MR.
HARVEY'S PROJECTS YEARS AGO.
AND I AM ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS WITH MS. McCOY AND MS.
JACKSON BEHIND ME, AND THEY HAVE BUILT TWO, TWO-STORY HOUSES
NEXT TO MY HOUSE, AND THEY JUST MOVED IN THERE, PROBABLY
BETWEEN APRIL AND JUNE OF THIS YEAR, AND THEY ARE ALREADY
RENTING IT OUT.
AND THEY HAVE ONE OF THE BIG PRIVACY FENCES UP TO MY CHAIN
LINK FENCE, THAT I CANNOT SEE OVER, BUT I HAVE SEEN VAGRANTS
BEFORE THEY MOVED IN THERE GO THROUGH THE FENCE, AND THEN
COME OUT.
AND NOW DURING THE STORM, A TREE HIT THE FENCE THAT KIND OF

BROKE IT.
, IT'S NOT FALLING APART YET BUT IT'S LEANING ON MY CHAIN
LINK FENCE.
THE OWNER DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.
I JUST SAW HIM THE OTHER DAY AND TOLD HIM.
HE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.
SO WHOEVER IS THIS PROPERTY'S MANAGER, THEY ARE NOT
PROTECTING HIS PROPERTY.
THEY ARE NOT INVESTIGATING OR KEEPING IT CLEAN.
HE SAID THE BACKYARD WAS LIKE CRAP.
AND EXCUSE MY EXPRESSION.
BUT THE DECREE LIMB IS STILL HANGING DOWN.
I PUSHED THE TREE LIMB OFF HIS FENCE SO IT WOULDN'T FINISH
TEARING UP MY FENCE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN AIRBNB.
I DON'T KNOW WHO THE PROPERTY MANAGER IS BUT I TOLD HIM YOU
NEED TO CHECK WITH YOUR PROPERTY MANAGER BECAUSE THEY ARE
NOT TEXTING THE PROPERTY AND THEY JUST BUILT THESE HOUSES
THIS YEAR AND IT'S ALREADY BEING RENTED OUT, AND STRANGERS
ARE COMING IN AND OUT ALL THE TIME, SITTING ON MY PRO WHERE
I HAVE TO ASK THEM DON'T SIT ON MY PROPERTY AND SMOKE, THEY
LEAVE ALL THEIR CIGARETTE BUTTS THERE.
IT'S A TWO-WAY STREET.
SO STRICT ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO REALLY BE CHECKED WITH THESE
NEW HOMES COMING UP WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN THEM,

AND COME IN, THEY BUY THEM, STAY THERE THREE MONTHS AND THEY
ARE GONE.
THANK YOU.
2:35:17PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN CHAMBERS?
2:35:23PM >> MY NAME IS DOLORES JACKSON.
AND I HAVE TO CONFESS I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT AN ADU IS.
I HAD THE IMPRESSION IT RELATES TO NEW BUILDINGS.
MORE SO THAN GENERATIONAL HOMES.
AND MAYBE I WILL FIND OUT.
BUT I WANT TO COMMENT ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN
BUILDERS COMING INTO EAST TAMPA WHOSE BUILDING PRACTICES,
ESPECIALLY WHERE I LIVE, 23rd STREET, HAS BROUGHT IN A
WHOLE SET OF PROBLEMS, AND WE HAVE BEEN IN HOUR HOME SINCE
THE 1950s.
I WAS RAISED BY MY GRANDFATHER IN WHAT WE CALLED YBOR CITY
AT THE TIME, NOW EAST TAMPA, IN THE 1950s, EARLY 60s.
BUT NEVER IN ALL THESE YEARS HAVE I EXPERIENCED THE KIND OF
PROBLEMS THAT I AM SEEING NOW THAT ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO
NEW CONSTRUCTION HAPPENING NEXT TO MY HOME.
SOME OF THE BUILDERS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHO IS OVERSEEING
THEIR WORK, BECAUSE AT 2208 EAST 15th, THERE WAS A
PORT-A-POTTY THERE.
THE CONSTRUCTION STARTED, I THINK, IN LATE 2021, INTO 2022,
AND THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON IT.

BECAUSE THE BUILDER WOULD SEND WORKERS, AND THE WORKERS WERE
RELEASED FOR TWO MONTHS.
NOTHING HAPPENS.
THE PORT-A-POTTY IS THERE.
IT IS ALLURE FOR THE UNDESIRABLES, AS YOU KNOW, INHABIT THE
AREA AROUND 15th AVENUE, 14th AVENUE, 22ND STREET,
AND EXIT 1 OF I-4, THERE'S A BURGER KING AND A McDONALD'S
THERE.
YOU KNOW THE PROBLEMS THAT EXIST FROM.
THE CITY.
I DON'T MEAN YOU PERSONALLY.
THE CITY IS AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS OF PANHANDLING.
AND THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT COLLECT IN THAT AREA.
I MENTION THIS BUILDER BECAUSE THE MERE FACT THAT HE DOESN'T
LOCK THE PORT-A-POTTY INVITES THOSE CHARACTERS INTO THE
PORT-A-POTTY ALL TIMES OF THE DAY OR NIGHT, DRUGS AND
PROSTITUTION.
SO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ADUs AND FENCES AND SETBACKS AND
TRANSPARENCIES, BUT THESE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS NEED TO BE
HELD TO A STRICTER STANDARD WHEN THEY BRING THEIR CREWS INTO
OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY NEED THESE CONSTRUCTION SITES
UNATTENDED, AND CERTAIN OF THE --
[BELL SOUNDS]
I GUESS THAT MEANS I HAVE TO STOP.
2:38:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
30 SECOND MORE, MA'AM.

2:38:44PM >> I WISH THERE WAS MORE OVERSIGHT ON CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY HAVE INTRODUCED A WHOLE SET OF NEW
PROBLEMS TO THE AREA CAUSING ME TO HAVE TO SELL A HOME THAT
HAS BEEN IN MY FAMILY.
I AM A THIRD GENERATION.
I WANTED TO LEAVE IT TO THE FIFTH GENERATION.
THE FOURTH GENERAL, WANTS TO SELL IT.
THE L THE FIFTH, I WOULD LIKE HER TO HAVE THE HOME.
I'M THINKING OF SELLING MY HOME MERELY BECAUSE A NEW PROJECT
WAS SET UP NEXT TO MY HOME UNDER BUILDING CONDITIONS THAT
ARE JUST ATROCIOUS.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
2:39:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MA'AM.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO PUBLIC COMMENT?
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
2:39:27PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LET ME SAY THIS.
YOU KNOW, AS THE CONVERSATIONS ARISE, OTHER THINGS COME INTO
THE POT.
AND MR. MANISCALCO BRAT IT UP.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY REGULATIONS CAN BE PUT ON THAT AS
RELATES TO WHY CITY ORDINANCE, BUT IN THIS AIRBNB SITUATION.
WE HAVE A REFERENCE TO OAK YOU PI, OR TALK ABOUT THESE
ADUs IN COMMUNITIES TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE SOME OF THE
THINGS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THE DISCUSSION.
I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE HOW WE CAN HAVE OVERSIGHT.

I NOTICE WE BROUGHT THE CONSTRUCTION STUFF.
WE HAD ISSUES ABOUT CONSTRUCTION ALL YEAR LONG.
SO THESE PORT-A-POTTIES, THEY DO ATTRACT PEOPLE.
EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS TOTALLY CORRECT.
I JUST THINK WE NEED TO FIND HOW THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT,
SERVICES OR WHATEVER, TO FIND IDEAS IN REFERENCE TO
ENFORCEMENT OF THE ADU, AIRBNB SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
ARE NOT HAVING THAT TRANSIENT BEHAVIOR, LIKE MS. JACKSON
FEELS THE SAME, BUT THEY GOT PEOPLE LIVING THERE, EVERY WEEK
WE GOT SOMEBODY THAT'S CAUSING A PROBLEM, SO I DO UNDERSTAND
THAT.
SO MAYBE THERE COULD BE SOME STIPULATIONS THAT IT WILL NOT
BE THAT KIND OF RESIDENCE AND SO FORTH.
BUT I THINK NOW WITH THE CONVERSATION, TALKING ABOUT EAST
TAMPA, SO THEY HAVE SOME CONCERNS, YOU KNOW.
AGAIN, IF YOU LOOKED AT SOME THINGS, AND MAYBE YOU CAN BRING
SOME THINGS BACK TO ADD THESE RESTRICTIONS.
ALSO, I WANT TO SEE -- I'M SURPRISED THAT LAKE WASN'T ADDED
IN THERE, SO MAYBE LAKE CAN BE ADDED INTO TO THAT PROCESS IF
IT'S NOT TOO LATE BECAUSE I THINK HE'S RIGHT.
THAT ALL CONNECTS SOMETHING THERE.
AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT WITH LAKE AVENUE CONNECTED FROM
15th STREET DOWN TO EAST 34th AT LEAST.
2:41:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MS. TRAVIS.
2:42:04PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.

THE BOSS HAS SOMETHING TO SAY.
2:42:09PM >> THEN I AM GOING TO RECOGNIZE MRS. TRAVIS.
2:42:12PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.
2:42:14PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. TRAVIS.
2:42:15PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN CITRO, VERY MUCH.
SO JUST IN RESPONSE TO THE COMMENTS THAT EAST 15th, WE
WILL DEFINITELY HAVE OUR CONSTRUCTION SERVICES TEAM GO OUT
THERE AND LOOK INTO THAT.
I THINK THE COMMENTS THAT YOU ARE HEARING ARE NOT
NECESSARILY RELATED TO ADUs.
IT'S THE TRANSIENT POPULATION THAT WE NEED TO GET OUR EYES
ON ASSOCIATION WORK WITH BUILDING OFFICIALS AS WELL AS CODE
ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE SOME OF THIS IS CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES
THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, AND THE SECURITY, TO COME INTO
COMPLIANCE.
I THINK THE ADUs IS A CONCERN, LATER WHAT WE DON'T WANT,
BUT TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMAN GUDES EARLIER, WE HAVE A
HOUSING CRISIS, AND SO GENERATIONAL LIVING OPTIONS AS WELL
AS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STAY OWN TOP OF THE CODE
ENFORCEMENT.
SO I WILL DEFINITELY GET WITH THOSE TWO TEAMS, AND IF THERE
ARE ANY POSITIVE RECOMMENDATIONS, INCLUDING THE
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
SO THANK YOU.
2:43:35PM >> COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.

2:43:36PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
REAL QUICK A COUPLE OF THINGS.
I THINK WE ARE PREEMPTED BY THE STATE FROM REGULATING
AIRBNBs.
I THIS WE WOULD HAVE ISSUES THERE.
SECOND, AN ADU MEANS A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE IN YOUR BACKYARD,
KIND OF SITUATION, AND WHAT IT WOULD MEAN, WHAT WE ARE
LOOKING AT IS YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE, AND THE OWNER
HAS TO LIVE IN THE MAIN HOUSE.
THEY ARE ALLOWED TO RENT THE UNIT, WHICH HAS A MAXIMUM, I
DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IT HUNDRED SQUARE FEET, I FORGOT WHAT THE
NUMBER WAS.
BUT THEY CAN THEN RENT IT, THEN IF IT'S A CERTAIN SIZE, IT
HAS TO HAVE A PARKING SPACE.
IT WOULD BE LIKE A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE.
BUT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY HAS TO LIVE ON THE PROPERTY.
IT CAN'T BE AN INVESTOR COMING IN AND BUYING ALL THE HOUSES
ON THE STREET, RENTING OUT THE MAIN HOUSE, AND THEN THE
PERSON WHO OWNS IT, JOHN SMITH, LIVES IN THAT HOUSE AND RENT
IT.
IN REGARDS TO THE PORT-O-LETS AND THE CONSTRUCTION SITE, I
TALKED TO A POLICE OFFICER TUESDAY.
THIS IS OVER ON COLUMBUS AND FLORIDA SO I AM ASSUMING HE'S
IN THAT AREA.
BUT THEY HAD A CALL THE OTHER DAY WHERE THEY HAD A DECEASED
MAIL IN A LOT OH LET AND IT WASN'T SOMEONE WORKING ON THAT

CONSTRUCTION SITE.
IT WAS A RANDOM INDIVIDUAL THAT THEY FOUND.
SO YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT, TOO.
SO IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE GOING IN.
NOW YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS DISEASED IN THERE. BUT MS.
TRAVIS RESPONDED TO THAT, AND SPEAKING WITH MR. HUTCHINSON
AND THEN CODE ENFORCEMENT AND WHATNOT.
SHE'S AWARE OF THAT.
THANK YOU.
2:45:16PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK?
MS. DOCK?
MS. HEADLEY, I SAW YOU WAVING YOUR HAND. IS THERE SOMETHING
ELSE US WOULD LIKE TO ADD?
2:45:27PM >> KIM:
IT I WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE OF ADDITIONS REGARDING
LAKE AVENUE.
AND I DIDN'T GET TOO FAR INTO THE SPECIFICS OF THE CODE
LANGUAGE, BUT THERE ARE TWO SECTIONS IN THE NONRESIDENTIAL
THAT DEAL WITH PARKING INCENTIVES.
ONE RELATED TO THE MAIN STREETS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED AS PART
OF THE STRATEGIC ACTION PLAN.
THE OTHER WAS ALL OF EXISTING COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES THAT
LIKE THE LAKE AVENUE STRUCTURES THAT WOULD ALSO, FOR THEIR
ADAPTIVE REUSE OR EVEN JUST CONTINUED USE, WOULD HAVE
PARKING INCENTIVES IN PLACE.
SO I THINK LAKE AVENUE IN THAT SENSE WOULD BE COVERED.

THE ADUs, I THINK COUNCILMAN TOUCHED ON ALMOST, WE HAD
THIS DISCUSSION AT LENGTH DURING A FEW OF THE EARLIER PUBLIC
MEETINGS REGARDING THE ADUs THIS YEAR, WITH THIS BROADER
OVERLAY DISCUSSION.
IT WAS IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, EAST TAMPA, OWNER OCCUPIED
PROPERTIES.
SO YOU WEREN'T HAVING AN INVESTOR THAT THEN CREATED A
DUPLEX.
ALTHOUGH THAT BEING SAID, I THINK 2012 TAKEN FROM THE
COMMUNITY AND FROM COUNCIL HERE TODAY, AND I THINK MS. DOCK
WILL BE ABLE TO OUTLINE HOW WE CAN GO BACK AND DISCUSS
THOSE, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE GOING
FORWARD.
I WOULD ALSO, JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT, THAT SINCE 2016, THAT
SIX YEARS OF AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY
EFFORT, MEETING AFTER MEETING AFTER MEETING, AND LOTS OF
FOLKS DIGGING IN AND LEARNING THE ZONING CODE LANGUAGE THAT
ISN'T ALWAYS THE EASIEST.
I JUST THINK KUDOS TO MR. McCRARY, EAST TAMPA, THAT HAS
LISTENED AND PARTICIPATED THE LAST SIX YEARS TO KIND OF
BRING THESE ISSUES, TO BE ABLE TO UPDATE THAT, BECAUSE IT
HASN'T BEEN UPDATED SINCE EAST TAMPA CRA WAS CREATED.
SO KUDOS TO THE COMMUNITY FOR KIND OF DIGGING IN AND
STICKING WITH IT FOR SIX YEARS.
2:47:39PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.

2:47:44PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM GOING TO THINK ABOUT THIS, WHAT IF?
WOO IF SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT?
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
VERY NICE PEOPLE, THEY BUY A HOUSE, AND THEY DON'T LIVE ON
THE PROPERTY ANY LONGER.
THEY LIVED THERE FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF THE EVERYTHING IS
BEAUTIFUL.
PART OF THEM GET A HANKERING TO SELL THE HOUSE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?
WE DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW WHY?
BECAUSE WE DON'T KEEP A RECORD OF IT.
MANY YEARS AGO WE HAD SOME SWALES IN FRONT OF THE HOUSES SO
THE WATER WOULD BE RETAINED ON THAT PROPERTY.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, I BUY IT, AND MY WIFE AND I, I DON'T HAVE A
WIFE BUT I SAY MY WIFE AND I ARE THERE AND EVERYTHING IS
COPACETIC, AND I SELL TO MR. aND MRS. X FIVE YEARS LATER.
THEY MOVE IN. EVERYTHING IS FINE.
HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE THOSE SWALES, I WANT TO
PLANT SOME FLOWERS.
GUESS WHAT HAPPENS?
THEY TAKE THE SWALE OUT TO PLANT FLOWERS.
NOW THE FLOODING START.
HOW DO I STOP IT?
THEY HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED.
THAT'S NOT THERE.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN?
WHAT I AM SAYING IS I WANT TO MAKE SURE, LIKE THE REST OF
US, I GUESS, AND I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR THEM, I WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WHAT HAPPENS HERE STAYS THERE FOREVER.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IF.
BECAUSE WHAT IF IS TOO LATE TO HAVE ALL OF US INCLUDED.
AND THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO AVOID.
I WANT TO HAVE MORE HOUSING THAN ANYBODY ELSE.
BUT I DO NOT WANT ONE IOTA THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE WITHOUT
SOMEBODY KNOWING ABOUT IT.
AND THERE IS WHERE WE HAVE THE PROBLEM.
NOT IN THE MECHANISM BUT IN THE WHAT-IFS.
AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
2:49:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
2:49:50PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
AND AGAIN, I AM NOT A PROPERTY APPRAISER
OR TAX COLLECTOR, BUT WHAT IF, WHAT IF A PERSON APPLIES FOR
THIS SPECIAL USE, RECORD AT THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE,
AND THAT WAY WE KNOW IF IT'S SOLD OR RESOLD, IT STILL HAS TO
BE MAINTAINED AS THAT.
IS THAT POSSIBLE?
2:50:15PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
COUNCILMAN GUDES, THAT MAY -- THAT WOULD BE HARD TO TRACK.
THE SPECIAL USE PROCESS THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION
OFFICE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE
RECORDED OUTSIDE OF THAT REALM.

SO IT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK AT AND CONSIDER.
BUT I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW, ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS TO KNOW
AND THE PUBLIC TO KNOW WE HEAR YOU, WE HEAR YOUR CONCERNS.
I HAVE SPOKEN WITH KIM.
WE ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE ADU LANGUAGE FROM I KNOW FROM THE
REQUEST.
THEY ARE GOING TO DO FURTHER OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITY, COME
BACK TO YOU BY FIRST READING TO LET YOU KNOW THE OUTREACH
WHICH HAS OCCURRED, HOW MANY MEETINGS WERE HELD, AND ALSO
PROVIDE YOU WITH THE COMMUNITY FEEDBACK REGARDING THE ADU
LANGUAGE.
SO THAT WAY, BY THE TIME WE ARE BACK AT FIRST READING,
COUNCIL, YOU WILL HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION ON THE LARGER
PICTURE OF THE ADUs AND HAVE VOTED ON RECOMMENDED
STANDARDS FOR THOSE ADUs.
2:51:16PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CAN YOU LOOK INTO THAT WHAT MR. MIRANDA IS
TALKING ABOUT, SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO BLOCK THAT JUST IN
CASE?
2:51:29PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
CERTAINLY, COUNCIL.
YES.
AND LEGAL IS HERE AND SHAKING HER HEAD, YES.
THEY CAN LOOK INTO IT.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT UNDERSTANDING.
THAT LANGUAGE WOULD BE ON HOLD TILL FURTHER OUTREACH OCCURS.
AND THEN WE WILL REPORT THAT BACK TO YOU.

THE APPLICANT WILL AT THE TIME OF FIRST READING.
WE CAN ALSO MOVE FIRST READING BACK A MONTH OR SO IF NEEDED
JUST TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE, WE HAVE THE MESSAGE OUT,
EVERYONE HAS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF ADUs.
AND WITH THAT, COUNCIL, IF IT IS YOUR DESIRE, WITH THAT
UNDERSTANDING --
2:52:07PM >> I APOLOGIZE.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
2:52:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I JUST 2022 SAY THANKS TO ALL OF OUR
GUESTS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR LEADERSHIP AND YOUR FEEDBACK.
THE ONLY WAY WE CAN MAKE THE COMMUNITY BETTER IS TO LISTEN
TO THE COMMUNITY AND MAKE SURE WE WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY SO
WE APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING HERE.
THE SECOND THING ARE R, BUT YESTERDAY I TALKED TO A COUPLE
OF ATTORNEYS, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT DESPITE THE STATE
PREEMPTION ON AIRBNBs THERE MUST BE SOME WAY TO SET UP
THESE ADUs TO NOT ALLOW THEM.
FOR EXAMPLE, I BROUGHT UP THE QUESTION ABOUT HOMESTEADED
PROPERTIES, AND IF IT IS REQUIRED THERE.
I DOESN'T NEED AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW BUT I WONDER IF THERE'S
SOME CATEGORY WE CAN SET UP FOR THE ADUs WOULD THAT WOULD
QUALIFY FOR THE AIRBNBs IV BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT
ANOTHER TIME.
2:52:58PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
THANK YOU.

SO YES, WE WOULD MOVE THIS TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR
PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW AND PUBLIC INPUT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, COUNCIL.
2:53:08PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
MS. DOCK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPORT AND EVERYBODY
INVOLVED, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND EXPRESSING YOUR
CONCERNS AND YOUR COMMENTS.
THANK YOU.
2:53:23PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
WE HAVE THE LAST PART OF THE INITIATED TEXT AMENDMENT FOR
YOU TODAY.
THIS REQUEST IS AN AMENDMENT TO THE CENTRAL BUSINESS
DISTRICT PERIPHERY.
THIS REQUEST IS AGAIN A PRIVATELY INITIATED AMENDMENT, AND
OF COURSE WHICH IS ONE OF THE TWO AMENDMENTS THAT ARE PART
OF THE JANUARY 2022 AMENDMENT CYCLE.
THE APPLICANT IS TYLER HUDSON.
THE REQUEST IS TO AMEND THREE SECTIONS OF THE CODE, ONE
RELATING TO THE OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES, THE LOADING
SPACES, AND ALSO THE LANDSCAPE AREA AND TREE PLANTING
REQUIREMENT.
IT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE FOR THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT
WHICH HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED ON THIS MAP.

WHICH IS BOUNDED BY NORTHEAST PALM AVENUE TO THE NORTH,
BOULEVARD IS THE WESTERN BOUNDARY, AND THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY
JOGS TO FOURTH AVENUE.
SO THIS WOULD INCLUDE ALL PROPERTIES LOCATED WITHIN THAT
AREA.
SO THE REQUEST WOULD AMEND THE PARKING STANDARD FOR
RESIDENTIAL MULTIFAMILY USES, AND THIS WOULD AMEND TO THE
ONE SPACE PER UNIT.
THIS WOULD REMOVE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
THIS ALSO WOULD ALLOW FOR PARKING TRADEOFFS.
SO THIS THEY'RE WOULD BE A FOOTNOTE ADD IN THE PARKING TABLE
AS IT EXISTS TODAY AND IT WOULD REFERENCE THE CBD PERIPHERY
WITH THOSE STANDARDS.
IN ADDITION TO THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS AND HOW THEY ARE
CALCULATED.
SO WHAT I AM GOING TO TURN DO IS TURN IT OVER TO TYLER
HUDSON.
TYLER HUDSON AND ALEX SCHALER ARE ON THE LINE VIRTUALLY.
AND THEY ARE THE APPLICANTS AND THEY HAVE A PRESENTATION FOR
YOU TODAY.
AND I AM AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
2:55:11PM >> ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF?
THANK YOU, MS. DOCK.
2:55:17PM >> ALEX SCHALER, 400 ASHLEY DRIVE.
IT IS JUST ME TODAY.

TYLER WILL NOT BE ATTENDING.
I DO HAVE A PRESENTATION TO PULL UP.
CAN YOU ALL SEE THIS PowerPoint?
2:55:39PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
CAN YOU ENLARGE IT?
2:55:45PM >> YES.
THIS IS A TEXT AMENDMENT.
IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR AND THIS IS DIRECTLY IN RELATION TO
CBD PERIPHERY.
AND BEFORE I DIVE INTO THE PRESENTATION I WANT TO DO A
LITTLE BIT OF A BRIEF BACKGROUND ON WHY WE ARE SUBMITTING
THIS REQUEST AND KIND OF THE BASIS FOR THIS AMENDMENT.
THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING APPLICATION.
IT'S MORE RETROACTIVE IN NATURE, SO AS WE HAD TIME TO
REFLECT THAT, A LOOT OF APPLICATIONS THAT WE BROUGHT BEFORE
YOU IN THE CBD PERIPHERY YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER THAT MANY OF
THEM HAD THE SAME SIX OR SEVEN WAIVERS.
THOSE WAIVERS RELATING TO URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
AND WE EXPECT FUTURE PROJECTS WILL CONTAIN SIMILAR WAIVERS
SO THIS SEEMED LIKE A WORTHWHILE OPPORTUNITY WITH THE LAST
CYCLE OF PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO BETTER ASSESS SOME OF THE
DEVELOPMENT IN THE CBD PERIPHERY, AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY
BELIEVE THAT THIS AMENDMENT WILL ELIMINATE OR NECESSARILY
REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PDS BROUGHT BEFORE YOU BUT WE DO THINK
IT WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF WAIVER REQUESTS ASSOCIATED WITH

EACH OF THOSE PDS.
SO THE CBD PERIPHERY IS RECOGNIZED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY IS PALM,
WRAPS AROUND NEBRASKA, DOWN 15th, THEN DOWN AROUND THE
SOUTHERN PART OF HARBOR ISLAND, COPYING BACK UP AROUND NORTH
BOULEVARD.
AND THE CBD PERIPHERY, YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS,
PROJECTS LOCATED WITHIN THIS SPECIFIC AREA ARE PERMITTED TO
DOUBLE THEIR DENSITY.
SO AN EXAMPLE 3.5 F.A.R., THEY COULD PERMIT UP TO 7 WITH
BONUS PROVISIONS BEING MET.
SO IN THE AMENDMENT THAT WE HAD ATTACHED TO THE CODE TODAY,
IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THESE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF CODE,
GREEN SPACE, AND BUFFERING.
SO WE WANT TO START THIS OFF BY SUMMARIZING THIS LANGUAGE,
AND THIS IS THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE, BUT TO SHORTEN THIS WE
ARE ESSENTIALLY PROPOSING THAT THE PARKING RATIOS AND THE
CBD PERIPHERY MATCH THE PARKING RATIOS FOR PROJECTS LOCATED
IN THE CBD.
FOR A LITTLE BIT OF COLOR BEHIND THE SPECIFIC REQUEST, AS
YOU ALL ARE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY, A LOT
OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE CBD PERIPHERY AND A LOT OF THESE
PROJECTS CLOSELY MIRROR THE PROJECTS IN THE CBD IN TERMS OF
PROJECT NATURE.

SO WE ARE SEEING HIGH DENSITY, WE ARE SEEING OFFICE, WE ARE
SEEING A LOT OF PROJECTS, MIXED USE IN NATURE, AND SEEING
EXTENSIVE PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, AND AS WE MOVE TO
CREATING GOALS THAT ARE WALKABILITY AND TRANSIT ORIENTED AND
BIKE TRAVEL, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE UPDATE THE CODE TO
SUPPORT THIS.
THE SECOND PART OF THE REQUEST WE HAVE IS IN RELATION TO
VISITOR PARKING SPECIFICALLY, AND THE PARKING VISITOR
PARKING IN THE CBD PERIPHERY.
THIS IS ALREADY DONE IN A HOST OF OTHER DISTRICTS, YBOR
CITY, DOWNTOWN, SO THIS AMENDMENT WOULD ESSENTIALLY TAKE
THOSE OTHER POCKETS THROUGHOUT THE CBD PERIPHERY AND BRING
THOSE UP TO THE SAME REQUIREMENT AS NO VISITOR PARKING.
AND THE LAST PARKING AMENDMENT WE HAVE PROPOSED IS IN
RELATION TO ON-STREET PARKING AND TO ALLOW ANY PARALLEL
PARKING IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE PRIVATE ON STREET, 25%
OF THE REQUIRED PARKING COUNT FOR THE PROJECT, AND AGAIN
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE FOUND BECAUSE WE SEE IT OFTEN, AND
CURRENTLY WHENEVER YOU SUBMIT FOR A REZONING APPLICATION ON
THAT SITE PLAN, IF YOU HAVE PARALLEL PARKING PROPOSED, IT
CAN BE SHOWN, BUT IT HAS TO BE SHADED BACK AND HAS TO BE
KNOWN THAT IT DOES NOT COUNT FOR THE OVERALL PARKING COUNT
REQUIRED FOR THE PROJECT.
THOSE ARE DIFFERENT FROM ON-STREET PARKING AND FROM A
TRANSPORTATION STANDPOINT, TRAFFIC CALMING IS GOING TO BE --

BUFFERING FOR THE SIDEWALKS.
SPEAKING LOGISTICALLY, PROVIDING MORE ON-STREET VERSUS IN
THE GARAGE.
AND PERHAPS KNOW THE MOST IMPORTANT IS EASIER ACCESS TO
GROUND FLOOR, SO THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE DONE IS NOT EVERY
PROJECT THAT WE HAVE BROUGHT BEFORE THIS COUNCIL HAS AT
LEAST A COMPONENT OF GROUND FLOOR, OFFICE USE, RESIDENTIAL
USE IN THE CODE.
SO BY PROVIDING THIS PARALLEL PARKING ON STREET, IT'S JUST
EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO ACCESS, AND IT ACTIVATES THE STREET
LEVEL, EASIER TO PULL INTO A PARALLEL SPOT AS OPPOSED TO
PULLING INTO A GARAGE.
SO MOVING ON FOR PARKING, I THINK YOU ALL ARE INCREDIBLY
FAMILIAR WITH THESE WAIVERS THAT WE TYPICALLY REQUEST.
SO THIS IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
THE CBD PERIPHERY IS ONLY REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE LOADING BERTH
PER ELEMENT, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE NUMBER AND TO ALLOW THAT
SINGLE BERTH TO BE ACCESSED WITH MORE OF ONE CONTINUOUS
MANEUVER.
THIS IS INSPIRED FROM THE WESTSHORE MARINA DISTRICT AND WE
DO PROPOSE A DEVELOPMENT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE CBD
PERIPHERY MORE DENSE IN THE WESTSHORE, BUT BEHIND THIS
LOADING REDUCTION.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW, TOO, THAT PROJECTS IN THE ACTUAL
CBD, ALTHOUGH THEY ARE HELD TO THE SAME LOADING STANDARD AS

A GENERAL CODE, THEY ARE OFTEN REDUCED THROUGHOUT THE DBR
PROCESS, SO I GUESS IT WOULD REQUIRE ACTUAL WAIVER AS
SOMETHING THAT'S APPROVED DURING THE PRELIMINARY DESIGN
PROCESS SPECIFIC TO THE CBD.
THE NEXT SECTION IS IN RELATION TO GREEN SPACE, AND THIS IS
A LITTLE TECHNICAL AND I WANT TO SPEND A LITTLE MORE TIME.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTICE THAT WE ARE NOT PROPOSING ANY KIND
OF REDUCTION IN GREEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS IN THE CBD
PERIPHERY, OR JUST AN APPLICATION OF ONE ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO CURRENTLY THE WAY THE ROAD READS, IT'S MULTIFAMILY
GREATER THAN SIX OR GREATER FLOORS, IS PERMITTED TO USE A
PERCENTAGE CALCULATION TO CALCULATE THE AMOUNT OF GREEN
SPACE THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ON-SITE.
SO THOSE THAT ARE LESS THAN SIX STORIES IN HEIGHT ARE HELD
TO A GREEN SPACE REQUIREMENT, AND SO WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING
WITH THIS AMENDMENT WOULD BE TO REQUIRE A PERCENTAGE
CALCULATION TO BE APPLIED TO MOST FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN
THE CBD REGARDLESS OF HOW TALL THE BUILDING S.AND I HAVE A
GRAPHIC SHOWN ON THE SCREEN AND I THINK IT'S A REALLY GREAT
VISUAL ILLUSTRATION, ESSENTIALLY HOW MUCH GREEN SPACE IS
REQUIRED, ON THE CALCULATION BASIS.
THAT YOU HAVE GREEN BOX IN THE TOP RIGHT WHICH IS
ESSENTIALLY A GREEN PARCEL.
THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT FROM THE PARCEL AREA.
ON THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT SHOWN THERE.

THEN YOU MULTIPLY THAT AT 30%.
SO YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, THE LOWER GREEN IMAGE ON THE
IS ESSENTIALLY THE AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE YOU ARE REQUIRED TO
PROVIDE BASED OFF OF THAT TO GREEN BOX.
USING THIS PERCENTAGE CALCULATION.
SO SOMETIME LIKE I SAID, 30%, RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER, GIVEN
THE ENACT THIS IS DEVELOPMENT IN THE CBD PERIPHERY.
SO ALTHOUGH THIS IS A LITTLE TECHNICAL BUT I THINK IT'S A
GOOD RENTAL PROPERTY REPRESENTATION, FOR SOME OF THE
DEFICIENCIES IN THE CURRENT CODE, IN USING THAT CURRENT
CALCULATION CURRENTLY REQUIRED FOR BUILDINGS, FIVE STORIES
OR BELOW, YOU WOULD TAKE THE NUMBER OF UNITS SUCH AS 100
UNITS, MULTIPLIED BY 750 SQUARE FEET PER UNIT, THAT'S THE
CURRENT GREEN SPACE REQUIREMENT FOR PROJECTS THAT, AND YOU
ARE LOOKING AT ABOUT 1.7 ACRES OF REQUIRED GREEN SPACE.
MOVING ON TO 200 UNITS, STILL NORMAL PROPOSAL IN THE CBD
PERIPHERY REQUIRING ABOUT 3.4 ACRES OF GREEN SPACE.
AS YOU CAN SEE WHEN YOU GET TO 300 UNITS, WHICH IS A
MODERATE AMOUNT OF DENSITY PROPOSED, WITHIN A CBD PERIPHERY,
THEY INCLUDED ON MANY OF OUR PROJECTS, REQUIRE 225,000
SQUARE FEET OF GREEN SPACE, WHICH IS A LITTLE OVER FIVE
ACRES.
SO SPEAKING LOGICALLY, WE DON'T HAVE TOO MANY PROJECTS IN
THE CBD PERIPHERY THAT INCLUDES A TOTAL AREA OF FIVE ACRES
LET ALONE AN ADDITIONAL FIVE ACRES SET ASIDE FOR GREEN

SPACE.
SO THE THEORY THINNED IS YOU CAN SEE THE PERCENTAGE
CALCULATION TABLE THAT'S INCLUDED BELOW. IN IS BASED OFF OF
THE PROJECTS GIVEN THE POPULATION IS THE PLANNED AREA, AND
SPECIFIC TO A CERTAIN SITE.
I JUST WANTED TO GIVE EXAMPLES UTILIZING A RANGE OF UNITS.
FOR SMALLER DEVELOPMENT, 54 UNITS, 5900 SQUARE FEET OF
REQUIRED GREEN SPACE.
AGAIN THIS IS BASED OFF PARCEL EAR, BUILDING FOOTPRINT,
THAT'S HOW YOU GET TO THAT NUMBER.
MOVING UP TO 236 UNITS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THAT GREEN SPACE
NUMBER DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE.
AND THEN AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE 532 UNITS, THIS IS A PROJECT
THAT WAS RECENTLY APPROVED IN THE CHANNEL DISTRICT.
THE REQUIRED GREEN SPACE HOVERING ABOUT 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL OF THIS IS WITHIN A
SIMILAR RANGE AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT TO
THE PARCEL AREA, THAT RATIO ISN'T CHANGING BECAUSE AS
MENTIONED THIS IS ALL URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ALL MINIMAL
SETBACKS, WE HAVE A LOT OF LAND COVER FROM THE BUILDINGS.
AS YOU CAN SEE, WHAT IS REQUIRED FROM THIS PERCENTAGE
CALCULATION IS .14, .13, .12 ACRES, AND WHAT IS REQUIRED IN
THE CALCULATION.
SO I KNOW THIS IS TECHNICAL.
THIS IS A LOT OF NUMBERS.

BUT WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING ESSENTIALLY IS TO TAKE THAT
CALCULATION, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PERMITTED FOR SIX STORIES OR
GREATER AND APPLY THAT TO ALL MULTIFAMILY VARYING LEVELS
BELOW SIX FLOORS.
WE HAVE A COUPLE DIFFERENT DEFERRALS THAT WOULD INCREASE
BUILDING HEIGHT, NOT ADDING UNNECESSARY HEIGHT JUST TO
UTILIZE THIS PERCENTAGE CALCULATION FOR GREEN SPACE
REQUIREMENT TO AVOID A WAIVER.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE SEEN ON PAST PROJECTS IN ORDER
TO KIND OF A REPLY THIS ACROSS THE BOARD, WE THINK THAT
MAKES SENSE IN THE CBD PERIPHERY.
THE LAST REQUEST WE HAVE IS IN RELATION TO TRYING TO CLARIFY
THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE.
WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING HERE IS TO T ADJACENT USE, YOU CAN SEE
WHAT'S HIGHLIGHTED ON THE SCREEN.
WE ARE ASKING THAT THE INTERPRETED AS THE EXISTING USE ON
THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, AND NOT ALL THE PERMITTED USES THAT
COULD BE ALLOWED WITHIN THE ZONING DISTRICT.
THE REASON WE SAY THIS IS BECAUSE THE THEN EXISTING USE OF
AN ADJACENT SITE IS TANGIBLE.
WHEN TRYING TO PLAN AROUND THE MOST INTENSE USE THAT COULD
POTENTIALLY IN THE FUTURE MAY NEED TO BE PLACED ON THE SITE
ARE THE NUMBERS INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE, IN AN URBAN AREA OF
THE CBD PERIPHERY, THIS HAS BEEN PLUMMETING SO THE PROCESS
IS BE TO TAKE THAT LARGER UMBRELLA AND HAVE THE ACTUAL USES

AS IT'S REFERRED TO IN THE TABLE, SEE WHAT IS INTERPRETED
AND WHAT IS HELD TO AS A Q.WHAT IS ON-SITE AT THE TIME OF A
NEW PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, WHAT IS ACTUALLY SURROUNDING THAT
USE AT THAT TIME.
SO WITH THAT, I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.
HAPPY TO RECEIVE FEEDBACK AND THANKFUL TO LACHONE BECAUSE
SHE WORKS REALLY HARD.
I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS AND THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME.
3:07:30PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST?
3:07:32PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
[OFF MICROPHONE]
3:07:42PM >> COUNCILMAN MIRANDA?
3:07:44PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I DON'T THINK THE YOUNG LADY TOOK A
BREATH OF AIR.
ANYWAY, I UNDERSTAND THE LAST PARKING SPACE BUT WE DON'T
REALLY HAVE THE SPACE THAT COMES TO THAT POINT.
IT'S SAD THAT WE NEVER HAVE OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE A
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO ADJUST WHAT IS
PRESENTED.
SO WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT ALL THE MILLENNIUMS THAT WANT TO RIDE
BICYCLES, THAT'S FINE.
BUT THEN I GO OUT AND LOOK AT PLANT HIGH SCHOOL PARKING.
THEN I GO TO JEFFERSON, THEN HILLSBOROUGH, AND UNIVERSITY OF
TAMPA, THERE'S NOT ONE EMPTY SPACE.
I TELL MYSELF I MUST BE LYING.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT I LOOK AT.
AND I AM A REALIST.
I REALIZE WHAT'S HAPPENING.
AND I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID.
BUT THE OTHER DAY IT WAS ZONING HERE ON NORTH BOULEVARD.
AND IT HAD .002.
AND .004.
AND THEREFORE, YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE
ONE THAT'S .002.
AND HERE AT CITY HALL. IF YOUR PEOPLE COME TO PARK, THEY
ARE LIABLE TO BE TOWED AWAY.
THAT'S WHAT I AM GET GETTING TO.
I AM NOT AGAINST DOING ANYTHING THAT'S REASONABLE.
I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS NOT REASONABLE.
BUT IN MY MIND WHEN DON'T HAVE THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM TO
REALIZE THE FACTS THAT WERE PRESENTED, BECAUSE IF WE HAD
ONE, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE PROBLEM.
AND I CAN SAY YES.
IN NEW YORK CITY YOU CAN HAVE ALL YOU WANT.
BUT WHAT DO THEY HAVE THAT WE DON'T HAVE?
TRANSPORTATION.
OF ALL KIND.
AND WAY BACK, I WILL NEVER FORGET A GENTLEMAN NAMED HARRY
ORR WHO WAS HEAD OF THE BUS SYSTEM.
MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW WE HAD A BUS SYSTEM HERE.

AND RIGHT THERE ON CLEVELAND STREET.
AND ONE DAY I AM WALKING DOWN -- HE'S WALKING DOWN THE STEPS
AND I AM RIGHT THERE WITH HIM.
AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.
I SAID YES, HARRY?
AND HE TELLS ME THIS.
I AM NOT GOING TO SEE IT BUT YOU ARE.
HE SAID THE DAY YOU TAKE A DOLLAR FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT FOR YOUR BUS SYSTEM IS THE DAY THE BUSES ALL GO
YOU KNOW WHERE, BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TOD GO FROM HERE TO
WIMAUMA FOR 25 AND LOSE $80 FOR TAKING THAT PERSON THERE.
I WILL NEVER FORGET WHAT HE TOLD ME.
AND HE WAS 100% CORRECT.
THAT BUS SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK FOR VARIOUS REASONS.
FIRST OF ALL THE DENSITY.
AND THEN THE PROGRESS THAT WE MAKE.
YOU SEE, WHEN I LIVED IN THE HOUSING PROJECT, THE
CONDOMINIUMS OF TAMPA, I USED TO CALL THEM, NO ONE HAD A
CAR.
I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT TODAY.
ONLY ONE PERSON IN MAYBE 30 UNITS HAD ONE CAR.
ONE.
WHEN WALKED FROM 26th AVENUE, ALL THE WAY TO JEFFERSON,
AND 40 KID ON THE BUS AND THE BUS IS LATE.
SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS, WE LOST IT.

NO ONE HAD NOTHING.
EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY.
EVERYBODY BUT THE BUS.
GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND COME BACK.
I THINK IT WAS 15 CENTS OR 15 CENTS.
I NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
I HAVEN'T RODE A BUS FOR YEARS.
THE PARENTS SAY, MY KID ISN'T GOING TO GET A CAR.
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY WHEN THEY ARE 12.
WHEN THEY ARE 16 THEY SAY I WANT A CAR LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
BUT THAT'S THE SOCIETY WE HAVE GROWN TO BE.
BUT EVERYBODY HAS A CAR.
WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT.
ALONG WITH THE CAR YOU HAVE REGISTRATION, ALSO INSURANCE.
IT'S GETTING TO BE THAT YOU CAN'T LIVE ANYWHERE.
SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PRESENTER SAID.
BUT I HAVE GOT TO HAVE PROOF OF WHAT SHE SAID, BECAUSE MY
EYES ARE LYING TO ME.
THEY ARE LYING TO ME AND I WANT TO HAVE AN EYE CHECK.
THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG THE WAY WE DO THINGS AND THE REALITY
OF LIFE.
I'M NOT SAYING SHE'S WRONG.
I'M SAYING I CAN'T EQUATE TO IT BECAUSE MY EYES, WAY SEE, IS
NOT WHAT I HEAR.
AND ANYBODY WANTS TO CHALLENGE ME, LET'S GO FOR A RIDE.

THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.
3:12:29PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
3:12:30PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
WELL, I DON'T WANT TO SAY OLD TIMER, BUT
YOU ARE RIGHT.
YOU GO TO ANY HIGH SCHOOL PARKING LOT, AND MY KNEES, I'M NOT
WALKING.
WANTED TO GET A JOB AT AMAZON.
I TOOK A BUS.
FROM EAST TAMPA OUT TO THE LOT AT AMAZON.
WE DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM YET.
CARS ARE STILL HERE.
THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.
CARS ARE STILL HERE.
WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PARK THESE CARS?
I KNOW YOU WANT PARKING.
HOW CAN YOU GET RID OF PARKING WHEN PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING
CARS ARE STILL HERE?
LET'S LOOK AT THE REALITY OF THINGS.
THE REALITY IS PEOPLE DRIVE CARS IN TAMPA.
WE ARE IN THE SOUTH.
WE ARE NOT IN THE NORTH WHERE ALL THE TRANSIT SYSTEM, THE
TRANSPORTATION TAX FAILED TWICE ON US.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE THERE YET.
I KNOW PARKING GARAGES COST SO MUCH MONEY FOR PARKING SPACE,
AND THE DEVELOPER TRYING TO GET AFFORDABLE HOUSING,

ATTAINABLE HOUSING, TALKING ABOUT $30,000 FOR ONE SPACE TO
GET IN THE PARKING GARAGE.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES.
HOW ARE WE GOING TO SOLVE THEM?
I AM JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PARK
THESE CARS AT?
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
3:14:12PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE ELSE?
3:14:14PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO MOVED.
3:14:15PM >> OKAY, GO AHEAD.
I'M SORRY. IS THERE ANYONE HERE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT?
ANYONE ONLINE?
I WILL RESERVE MY COMMENTS FOR WHEN WE GET A DEEPER DIVE
INTO THIS.
3:14:31PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO MOVED.
3:14:32PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY --
3:14:41PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
DEVELOPMENT COORDINATION.
COUNCIL.
3:14:46PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IS THERE A SECOND?
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:14:52PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR IT BUT WHEN IT
COMES BACK I HAVE TO HAVE THE EVIDENCE BEFORE I VOTE FOR IT
AND BELIEVE IT.

3:15:00PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I WILL VOTE FOR IT AND RESERVE MY COMMENTS
TILL THEN.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
3:15:06PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WHILE WE HAVE MS. DOCK HERE I WANT TO
CONFIRM --
3:15:12PM >> WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
3:15:20PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
5:01 START.
YOUR CALENDARS FOR YOUR EVENING MEETINGS WILL SAY 5:I WANT
TO CONFIRM THAT'S COUNCIL'S INTENTION, STICKING WITH 5:01.
3:15:30PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
YES, COUNCIL, STARTING IN JANUARY WE WILL
BE BACK TO THE REGULAR SCHEDULE WHERE WE HEAR ALL THE ZONING
MATTERS AND ALCOHOL, BEVERAGE SALES, PETITIONS ARE HEARD ON
ALCOHOL NIGHT, THE LAST NIGHT OF THE MONTH, THE WAY THEY
WERE PRIOR TO ADDING AN ADDITIONAL NIGHT.
SO SINCE WE ARE STARTING AT 5:01 WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
STARTING A NEW YEAR, THE DESIRE IS TO HAVE THESE HEARINGS
START AT 5:01 OR DO WE WANT TO GO BACK TO 6 P.M.?
3:16:01PM >> 5:
01.
3:16:02PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
ALL RIGHT.
WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, COUNCIL.
3:16:06PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:16:10PM >>BILL CARLSON:
ARE WE CAUGHT UP TO THE BACKLOG NOW?
3:16:13PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
WE ARE CAUGHT UP.

IF AN APPLICANT APPLIES TODAY FOR A REZONING, THEY DON'T
HAVE THAT EXTENSION THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD PREVIOUSLY.
SIX MONTHS AGO THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO WAIT AN EXTRA FOUR
MONTHS.
3:16:24PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SO NOBODY WILL BE TELLING APPLICANTS THAT
CITY COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE TIME FOR THEM.
3:16:32PM >>LACHONE DOCK:
CORRECT.
WE ARE CAUGHT UP TO DATE.
SO WE APPRECIATE IT, COUNCIL.
AND THANK YOU FOR HEARING US TODAY.
3:16:40PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL?
3:16:48PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
CONTINUE TO HAVE MEETINGS AT 5:01 P.M.
3:16:52PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECOND BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
THANK YOU.
OKAY.
INFORMATION REPORT. COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
3:16:59PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NONE SIR.
3:17:03PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I HAVE A FEW.
TAMPA CITY COUNCIL TO GIVE A COMMENDATION TO BELINTHIA BERRY
FOR HER HARD WORK, DEDICATION TO THE CITY OF TAMPA, THE
NATIONAL COALITION OF 100 BLACK WOMEN ON JANUARY 2nd.
JANUARY 10TH.
3:17:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR.

3:17:26PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE NEXT ONE, YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW ARTIS
GAMBRELL DID PASS, ONE OF THE LONGEST AFRICAN AMERICAN
EMPLOYEES IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, PRETTY MUCH RAN THIS SIDE OF
TOWN.
EVERYONE IS SAD AND HEARTBROKEN.
I GOT THE CALLS WHEN IT HAPPENED.
AND AGAIN I HAVE GOT A FEW THINGS I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS.
I WOULD LIKE THE ADMINISTRATION FOR DEDICATION TO THE CITY
OF TAMPA, AND LONG-TIME EMPLOYEE WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
3:18:02PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES, SECONDED BY
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:18:07PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THAT.
I DON'T RECALL COUNCIL IN THE PAST --
3:18:17PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I'M ASKING THE MAYOR.
3:18:20PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I WANTED TO MAKE SURE.
3:18:23PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR?
THANK YOU.
3:18:25PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NEXT TAMPA CITY COUNCIL GIVE POSTHUMOUSLY
OFF-SITE TO ARTIS GAMBRELL FOR SERVICE TO THE CITY OF TAMPA.
3:18:38PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:18:42PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT EAST
TAMPA REGIONAL PARK, AND MR. MANISCALCO WANTED SOMETHING A
BUILDING WITH MOSES WHITE, THAT'S FINE, BUT ALSO MADE A

MOTION PRIOR, IN REFERENCE TO THE REGIONAL PARK ITSELF, AND
AGAIN I AM ASKING THE ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON
THE NAMING OF THE EAST TAMPA REGIONAL COMPLEX FOR MR. ARTIS
GAMBRELL AND REPORT BACK ON THE DECEMBER 1.
3:19:11PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:19:18PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
A HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYONE THAT
IS CELEBRATING.
THANK YOU.
THAT'S IT.
3:19:21PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I MOTION TO PRESENT COMMENDATIONS TO THE
GEORGE EDGECOMB BAR ASSOCIATION ON THEIR 40TH ANNIVERSARY,
AND TO THE HILLSBOROUGH ASSOCIATION FOR WOMEN LAWYERS, ALSO
ON THEIR 40th ANNIVERSARY.
3:19:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:19:39PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I MOTION FOR A COMMENDATION TO BE GIVEN TO
ST. MARKS CATHOLIC CHURCH, ST. VINCENT DEPAUL MINISTRY FOR
THEIR OUTREACH.
3:19:47PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY VIERA, SECONDED BY MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:19:50PM >>LUIS VIERA:
AND ALL OFF PREMISES, OF COURSE.
AND LASTLY, IF I MAY, I MOTION FOR A COMMENDATION, AND
SULING, I WILL GIVE YOU INFORMATION ON THIS, TO THE

SWAMINARAUAN MANDIR, THE LOCAL TEMPLE FOR THE WORK THEY DO
IN THE COMMUNITY, ON THE FORTHCOMING HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY
OF THE BIRTH OF THEIR GURU WHICH THEY WILL BE CELEBRATING ON
SATURDAY.
3:20:18PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY VIERA, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:20:21PM >>BILL CARLSON:
A FEW QUICK ONES, PLEASE.
THE FLORIDA COORDINATION OFFICE WOULD LIKE TO GIVE US A
TEN-MINUTE UPDATE SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ASK
THE FLORIDA COORDINATION OFFICE TO GIVE A TEN-MINUTE UPDATE
TO TAMPA CITY COUNCIL ON FEBRUARY 2nd UNDER STAFF
REPORTS.
3:20:38PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON, SECONDED
BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
3:20:43PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT'S FEBRUARY --
3:20:48PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SECOND.
3:20:49PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AFTER STAFF REPORTS?
3:20:51PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
3:20:52PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WHAT TIME WOULD THAT BE?
NOT A TIME CERTAIN, OBVIOUSLY.
3:20:55PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
AFTER CEREMONIAL --
3:21:02PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THERE A CEREMONIAL DATE?
HOW LONG WOULD THAT LAST?

3:21:11PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THEY ASKED FOR UP TO TEN MINUTES BUT THAT'S
INCLUDING ANY QUESTIONS.
SHOULD I PUT AFTER --
3:21:22PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AFTER PRESENTATIONS.
3:21:27PM >>BILL CARLSON:
IN CEREMONIAL ACTIVITIES.
3:21:30PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
3:21:31PM >>BILL CARLSON:
ALSO, WE TALKED ABOUT ADUs TODAY AND
HEARD A LOT OF CONFUSION ABOUT IT.
SOUTH TAMPA THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE EXCLUDED FROM ADUs SO A
COUPLE OF PUBLIC MEETINGS, THE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND CITIZENS
FOR SURE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH
THE ADUS.
I TALKED TO STAFF AND NICOLE TALKED TO HER STAFF AND SHE
GAVE ME THESE PROMOTIONS TO PROPOSE.
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THE CENTRAL PLANNING DISTRICT
INCLUDES THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN HYDE PARK AND PART OF SOUTH
TAMPA, AND SO THESE NEIGHBORHOODS FEEL BLIND-SIDED BY THE
FACT THAT THEY WERE INCLUDED.
SO MY FIRST MOTION WHICH AGAIN IS COMING FROM STAFF IS TO
REMOVE ALL THE AREAS SOUTH OF KENNEDY, AND IN THE SECOND
MOTION IS TO ASK STAFF TO BEGIN A SIX-MONTH PROCESS TO
ENGAGE THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN SOUTH TAMPA AND THEN COME BACK
ON APRIL 27th.
SO I WILL MAKE THE FIRST MOTION.
MOVE TO DIRECT STAFF TO REMOVE ALL AREAS SOUTH OF KENNEDY

BOULEVARD INCLUDING HARBOR ISLAND, DAVIS ISLAND, FROM THE
PROPOSED AREAS FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, AND THE PENDING
ORDINANCE DUE BACK TO COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 1st.
3:22:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN
CARLSON.
IS THERE A SECOND?
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:22:53PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I'LL SECOND IT.
3:22:56PM >>LUIS VIERA:
SO IS YOUR MOTION TO HAVE BEEN THE ADUs
DISCUSSION COME BACK AFTER PROPER COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT HAS
BEEN DONE?
3:23:10PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES, THE SECOND MOTION IS THAT THE STAFF
WANTS SIX MONTHS TO PROPERLY ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE
THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN SOUTH TAMPA THOUGHT THEY WERE EXCLUDED,
THEY DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN THE INVITATION SO THE STAFF HAS
AGREED TO GIVE THEM MORE F.OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY WANTS
MORE, I THINK THEY COULD ASK FOR IT AS WELL BUT THE
NEIGHBORHOODS IN SOUTH TAMPA PARTICULARLY HAVE ASKED FOR
THIS.
3:23:33PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I UNDERSTAND THAT AND APPRECIATE
EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO PASS THEM
ALL OR NOT PASS THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
THIS IS COMING IN BY FEBRUARY 2nd, THE FIRST READING.
IS MY MEMORY CORRECT?
3:23:47PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I THINK IT'S DECEMBER --

3:23:51PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THIS IS GOING TO COME BACK.
I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE RIGHT OR WRONG.
I WOULD FEEL THEY ARE MUCH BETTER IF THEY ARE TAKEN
TOGETHER.
3:23:58PM >>BILL CARLSON:
IF YOU ALL 2022 MOVE ALL OF THEM TO APRIL,
WE CAN.
BUT STAFF IS SAYING THEY NEED SIX MONTHS, APRIL 27th IS
THE FARTHEST THE CALENDARS GOES OUT, A LITTLE MORE THAN SIX
MONTHS.
I WILL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU.
BUT SOUTH TAMPA, WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON PUBLIC
COMMENT.
3:24:16PM >>LUIS VIERA:
MAYBE BECAUSE I SENSE SOMEBODY RESISTANCE,
AND I UNDERSTAND FOLKS WANT MORE TIME ON IT, MAYBE WE COULD
HAVE PROSPECTIVELY AN ORDINANCE COMING BACK TO US IN
FEBRUARY, AND THEN GIVE THAT TIME TO ENGAGE YOUR
CONSTITUENTS, BECAUSE AGAIN I THINK THAT BOTH ARE VALID
PROPOSITIONS.
3:24:40PM >>BILL CARLSON:
STAFF IS SAYING JUST FOR SOUTH TAMPA THEY
NEED SIX MONTHS.
SO, I MEAN, I CAN MAKE -- I COULD MAKE THE MOTION TO
CONTINUE -- NICOLE, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?
3:24:57PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
I THINK WE ARE ALREADY ON A CERTAIN TRACK,
AND THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT EXCLUDING SOUTH
TAMPA AREA, AND WE KNOW THAT -- I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT

STAFF PROPOSED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CENTRAL PLANNING
DISTRICT AND THAT INCLUDES CERTAIN PARTS OF HYDE PARK.
SO I DON'T WANT TO THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER,
IF YOU WILL.
IF THE INTENT IS TO ALLOW FOR STAFF TO DO A LITTLE MORE
PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT FOR EVERYTHING SOUTH OF KENNEDY -- WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS FOR
SOUTH OF KENNEDY NEIGHBORHOOD, AND SHOULD YOU BE INCLINED
FOR THE ORDINANCE TO COME BEFORE YOU ON DECEMBER 1st, I
ASK THAT YOU MAKE THAT MOTION SO THAT THE MOTIONS, WE COULD
COME BACK AND BRING THE OTHER AREAS THAT NEEDED ADDITIONAL
CONCERN.
WE THOUGHT THIS WAS THE BEST WAY TO CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD
WITH THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WITH HOUSING IN A CRISIS,
AS YOU DIRECTED US TO.
WE THINK IT'S A FAIR WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND SO SCHEDULED THE TIME THAT WE NEED TO HAVE THE
CONVERSATIONS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS SOUTH OF KENNEDY.
3:26:26PM >> COUNCILMAN GUDES.
3:26:30PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
WE TALK ABOUT EQUALITY.
WE ARE SAYING WE ARE GOING TO DO ADUs BECAUSE HOUSE IN THE
CITY.
HOW DO WE EXCLUDE ONE NEIGHBORHOOD VERSUS ANOTHER

NEIGHBORHOOD?
I JUST HAVE A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH THAT.
I MEAN, I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM SAYING WE ARE GOING TO EXCLUDE
ONE AREA OF TOWN, AND ANOTHER AREA OF TOWN HAS TO HAVE IT
AND ANOTHER AREA OF TOWN.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
I DON'T CARE HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.
WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A CITY OF DIVERSITY, OF EQUITY AND
EQUALITY AND I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SUPPORTING ANYTHING
THAT SAYS THAT ONE AREA OF TOWN, TO ME, AND THIS AGAIN, THEY
ARE BETTER THAN US, OR I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
NOT SAYING ON THE BASIS OF WHAT SOMEBODY WANTS OR DON'T WANT
BUT IT LOOKS BAD.
IT JUST LOOKS BAD TO SAY THAT ONE AREA IS SAYING, NO, WE
DON'T WANT IT, AND THIS IS REAL BAD.
3:27:51PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THERE'S A FALSE SCENARIO BEING PUSHED BY
SOME ACTIVISTS THAT SOUTH TAMPA IS AGAINST IT OR SOUTH TAMPA
THINKS THEY ARE TOO GOOD FOR IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SOUTH TAMPA HASN'T BEEN INFORMED ABOUT IT AT ALL.
THEY ARE NOT AGAINST IT.
IN FACT THERE ARE A LOT OF ADUs ALREADY IN SOUTH TAMPA.
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS JUST LIKE HISTORIC
NEIGHBORHOODS IN SOUTH TAMPA AND OTHER PLACES.
YOU CAN'T JUST GO IN AND NOT TALK TO EACH OF THESE
NEIGHBORHOODS ABOUT HOW THESE THINGS AFFECT THEM

INDIVIDUALLY.
WHAT THE STAFF IS SAYING IF YOU WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
THE OTHER AREAS, WHICH THEY ARE PREPARED TO DO IF THE OTHER
NEIGHBORHOODS AREN'T AGAINST IT AND THEY CAN MOVE FORWARD,
SOUTH TAMPA IS NOT SAYING THEY DON'T WANT IT.
THEY ARE SAYING THEY JUST 2022 KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY
DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF HAVING A WHOLE BUNCH
OF PEOPLE SHOWING UP ON DECEMBER 1st, THE STAFF IS
RECOMMENDING THAT WHEN JUST MOVE IT TO A DIFFERENT TIMELINE.
AND I THINK THEY WILL COME BACK AND SAY, WHAT, WE ARE FINE
WITH IT UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES AND MAYBE IT WILL BE THE
SAME THING AS EVERYBODY ELSE BUT JUST PROVIDING A TIMELINE
SO THEY CAN BE ENGAGED ABOUT IT.
AND IF OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS SAY THEY ARE NOT FULLY ENGAGED, I
WOULD BE OKAY SUPPORTING THAT AS WELL.
3:28:57PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. TRAVIS, WHAT TYPE OF TIMELINE TO
COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S POINT ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH?
3:29:04PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
SO I WAS JUST ON THE PHONE WITH ABBYE AND
ERIC COTTON.
SO DECEMBER 1st, WE NEED TO NOTICE IT PROPERLY, SO THE
EARLIEST IT WILL COME TO YOU IS JANUARY 26th.
THAT'S WHEN THE ORDINANCE COMES BEFORE YOU FOR THE DWELLING
UNITS.
IF YOU WANT US TO ENGAGE THE NEIGHBORHOOD SOUTH OF KENNEDY,
WAS GIVING SIX MONTHS TO PROPERLY ENGAGE THE MEETING WITH

THOSE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AGAIN, HOUSING IS A CRISIS AND WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
ALL OPTIONS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE PROVIDED TO DO.
TWO WORKSHOPS EARLIER THIS YEAR, RECENTLY IN LATE OCTOBER,
WE CAME BACK WITH SPECIAL USE, SOME DIFFERENT OPTIONS.
THIS IS MOVING THIS FORWARD.
AND BECAUSE THE SPECIAL PLANNING DISTRICT MOSTLY EXCLUDES
THE SOUTH TAMPA NEIGHBORHOODS, EXCEPT FOR CERTAIN AREAS IN
HYDE PARK, THOSE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTS WERE NOT A PART OF
THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THE WORKSHOPS.
TO BE FAIR, THEY WERE NEVER INCLUDED IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS,
BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CENTRAL PLANNING DISTRICT.
AND WE KNEW THAT THERE WERE MORE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE COULD
HAVE, BECAUSE HYDE PARK AND SOUTH OF KENNEDY, THEY HAVE
ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
SO I WANTED TO ENCOURAGE YOU, IF YOU WANT TO MOVE FORWARD,
THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU DIRECTED US
TO AT THE LAST WORKSHOP ON JANUARY 26th AND HAVE THE
FORMAL ENGAGEMENT, GIVE US SIX MONTHS TO DO THAT.
I AM NOT SURE WHAT THE DATE WAS.
3:30:49PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I SAID APRIL 27 JUST BECAUSE THE CALENDAR
DOESN'T GO OUT FURTHER THAN THAT.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT --
3:31:00PM >>NICOLE TRAVIS:
OKAY.
3:31:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.

3:31:02PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND I THINK THERE'S A WAY FORWARD TO SATISFY BOTH SIDES ON
THIS, WHICH IS POTENTIALLY -- AND AGAIN, I AM NOT FEELING MY
BEST.
I HAVE A COLD OR SOMETHING.
BUT IT'S POTENTIALLY HAVING -- I KNOW, I'M SORRY.
I KNOW, I KNOW.
BUT IT'S GOING AROUND.
MY FILTER.
I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY.
BUT IS POTENTIALLY LOOKING AT MAYBE CONTINUING THE WHOLE
THING.
IF IT'S COMING AT THE END OF JANUARY, WE COULD LOOK AT IT TO
CONTINUE IT 70 OR SO DAYS TO ACCOMMODATE BOTH SIDES.
AGAIN, JUST HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
BECAUSE IF SOUTH TAMPA WASN'T PROPERLY ENGAGED ON IT, RIGHT?
THAT IS A LEGITIMATE ISSUE.
BUT I UNDERSTAND ABOUT WANTING TO DO THIS PIECEMEAL AND
WANTING TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE THING AT ONCE.
3:31:54PM >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIR, BASED ON WHAT STAFF IS SAYING,
THEY REALLY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE WITH THE OTHER ONE AND THEY ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE
THIS.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND VOTE ON THE MOTION.
AND THERE ARE TWO PARTS OF IT.

ONE IS TO JUST EXCLUDE SOUTH OF KENNEDY, AND THE SECOND ONE
IS TO BRING IT BACK ON APRIL 27th.
SO IT'S NOT THAT I CAN MAKE IT ONE MOTION IF EVERYBODY
WANTS.
BUT THE IDEA IS NOT TO EXCLUDE THEM PERMANENTLY JUST TO
BRING THEM BACK ON APRIL 27th WITHOUT HAVING TO BELABOR
EVERYBODY ELSE.
3:32:33PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
3:32:34PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I AM GOING TO YIELD TO MR. SHELBY.
I THINK I SEE TWO MOTIONS.
3:32:39PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE MOTION IS MOVE TO DIRECT STAFF TO --
AGAIN I GOT THIS MOTION FROM NICOLE.
MOVE TO DIRECT STAFF TO REMOVE ALL AREAS SOUTH OF KENNEDY
BOULEVARD INCLUDING HARBOR ISLAND, DAVIS ISLAND, FROM THE
PROPOSED AREAS FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, IN THE PENDING
ORDINANCE DUE DAKOTA POSITIVE COUNCIL ON JANUARY 26th.
3:33:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN
CARLSON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
3:33:11PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION BUT AS LONG AS
THE OTHER MOTIONS COME BACK SO WE KNOW WE ARE NOT EXCLUDING.
3:33:20PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR SAY YAY.
ANY OPPOSED?
3:33:27PM >>BILL CARLSON:
AND SECOND IS MOVE TO HAVE ASK STAFF TO
BEGIN THE PROCESS ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS FOR THE

AREAS SOUTH OF KENNEDY BOULEVARD AND REPORT BACK TO COUNCIL
ON APRIL 27th.
3:33:36PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON, SECONDED
BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE?
ANY OPPOSED?
3:33:44PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
I HAVE TWO MORE.
I'M SORRY THAT TOOK SO LONG.
THE PUBLIC RECORDS DEPARTMENT HAS STARTED REQUIRING THAT IF
WE WANT RECORDS, WE NEED TO GO THROUGH GOV, AND I PULL
RECORDS OCCASIONALLY, BUT RIGHT NOW THEY ARE EXAMINING CITY
COUNCIL MEMBERS FROM PULLING PUBLIC RECORD.
MAYBE WE CAN ADDRESS THIS IN AN ORDINANCE ANOTHER SOMETIME.
BUT I THINK SIMILAR TO COUNCILMEMBER MIRANDA, I DON'T SPEND
ANY OF MY CITY COUNCIL BUDGET.
I BUY ALL MY OWN SUPPLIES, BUY MY OWN FURNITURE AND
EVERYTHING, SO I USUALLY HAVE A SURPLUS THAT I GIVE TO
CHARITY.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO TRANSFER FROM MY CITY
COUNCIL EXPERIENCE THAT I DON'T USE TO BE ABLE TO PAY FOR
PUBLIC RECORDS.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ASK THE CFO'S OFFICE TO
MOVE 2,787.88 FROM MY CITY COUNCIL EXPENSE BUDGET TO THE

CLERK'S OFFICE FOR THE PURPOSE OF PAYING FOR PUBLIC RECORDS
REQUESTS.
3:34:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES?
3:34:49PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
[OFF MICROPHONE] YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR
PUBLIC RECORDS?
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY OUT OF THIS ACCOUNT.
I'M SURE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT PAYING FOR IT.
3:35:02PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT'S A QUESTION THAT HAS COME UP AND
HAVE BEGUN LOOKING INTO IT.
I DID SPEAK WITH CARL BRODY AND THERE ARE NEW PROCEDURES IN
PLACE, AS YOU KNOW BEING HANDLED BY THE ARCHIVES.
THERE'S A WHOLE NEW PROCESS WITH GOV-QA AND DECISIONS ARE
BEING MADE.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT -- THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING BASED
ON A CONVERSATION I HAD THIS WEEK -- THAT EVEN CITY
EMPLOYEES, OR CITY DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE MAKING PUBLIC
RECORDS REQUESTS HAVE TO GO THROUGH GOV-QA AND THERE ARE
ASSOCIATED SERVICE CHARGES ASSOCIATED -- EXCUSE ME --
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, THEY ARE ASSESSED.
MY UNDERSTANDING --
3:35:55PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I LIKE THE TRANSPARENCY OF IT, THAT
EVERYBODY IN THE CITY HAS TO GO THROUGH GOV-QA SO THAT WE
CAN ALL SEE, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD MAKE ANOTHER MOTION AT
ANOTHER TIME ABOUT MAKING PUBLIC RECORDS ACCESSIBLE TO
OFFICERS OF THE CITY.

BUT FOR THIS PURPOSE RIGHT NOW I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A
MOTION, AND WE CAN ALWAYS, IF THEY DECIDE THEY DON'T WANT
IT, WE CAN CREDIT IT BACK LATER.
3:36:17PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IN THE PAST, THESE SORT OF QUESTIONS HAVE
COME UP WITH REGARDS TO RECORDS OR REQUESTS.
IN YEARS PAST WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IS, FOR WHATEVER REASON,
AN ISSUE OR NOT, THE CITY COUNCIL MAYBE AS A MOTION, SO IT
WAS THE BODY THAT WAS ASKING FOR IT.
THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT REQUESTED, IT WAS A
FORMER COUNCIL THAT DID THAT.
I CAN LOOK INTO THAT.
THAT'S ONE OPTION TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NEW TO ME.
I JUST LEARNED ABOUT IT THIS PAST WEAK.
3:36:56PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
3:36:59PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S PUBLIC RECORDS OR
WHATEVER IT IS, IF IT'S A HUNDRED OR A THOUSAND DOLLARS, I
DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS, OR IF I KNEW, MAYBE WOULD PASS ALONG
THAT ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS INCLUDING ADMINISTRATION AND
LEGISLATIVE SIDE HAS TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN PUBLIC RECORDS
THAT THEY REQUEST, AND THAT WAY EVERYBODY IS COVERED.
3:37:20PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I THINK STAFF HAS DECIDED THAT WE HAVE TO
PAY, BUT WITH OUR EXPENSE ACCOUNT, WE CAN BUY FURNITURE,
SUPPLIES AND SINCE I DON'T DO ANY OF THAT, I USUALLY WOULD
JUST TRANSFER THE MONEY TO CHARITY.

BUT THE EASIEST THING TO DO IS MOVE THE MONEY OVER FOR RIGHT
NOW.
AND THEN WE CAN WORK ON AN ORDINANCE LATER.
3:37:44PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF I COULD FOLLOW UP WITH THAT.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR REASONING.
BUT FOR INSTANCE, YOUR OFFICE DOES NOT SPEND THE MONEY.
COUNCILMEMBER MIRANDA'S OFFICE DOES NOT SPEND THE MONEY.
ONE OF THE ISSUES IS YOU ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE A BUDGET
CHANGE, THAT'S TAKE WHOLE SEPARATE PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO
PLEA REPLENISH YOUR ACCOUNT ESPECIALLY WITH REGARDS TO
PUBLIC RECORDS.
3:38:12PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I HAVE GOT MORE MONEY THAN THIS IN MY
ACCOUNT BECAUSE I DON'T USE ANY.
SO I WOULD JUST LIKE APPROVAL TO MOVE THE MONEY OVER.
3:38:19PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
3:38:27PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ONE MORE QUESTION.
I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE TO BE PAYING -- I DON'T
THINK WE SHOULD BE PENALIZED, IF HE NEEDS INFORMATION ABOUT
SOMETHING, AND HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT.
BUT I WILL SUPPORT IT TODAY.
I THINK IF YOU LOOK INTO THAT, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE
TO BE DOING THAT.
3:39:01PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I UNDERSTAND THAT'S YOUR SENTIMENT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SENTIMENT OF CITY COUNCIL --
3:39:07PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I ASKED AS A COUNCILMEMBER, I ASK TO CHECK
ON THAT, BECAUSE I DON'T -- RIGHT NOW I AM TELLING YOU WHAT
I BELIEVE.
3:39:21PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I UNDERSTAND THAT, SIR.
AND AS YOU SAID IT TO ME, IT'S BEEN HEARD BY OTHERS AS WELL.
SO I WILL MENTION IT AGAIN.
THANK YOU.
3:39:29PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
3:39:32PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE LAST ONE REAL FAST, HOPEFULLY REAL
FAST, IS THE ISSUE OF -- REMEMBER THE ISSUE CAME UP OF
SETTLEMENT CONTRACTS THAT WERE APPROVED BY THE CITY
ATTORNEY, BUT NOT BY CITY COUNCIL.
AND WE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH IN PRIOR MEETINGS ABOUT THE
IMPLICATIONS OF THAT, AND CITY ATTORNEY IS COMING BACK WITH
AN ORDINANCE THAT WE PROPOSED TO HANDLE THESE CASES IN THE
FUTURE.
I SOUGHT MY OWN OUTSIDE LEGAL COUNSEL TO SEE WHAT MY DUTY IS
AS AN OFFICER OF THE CITY TO TRY TO PREVENT THE CITY FROM
HAVING ANY LIABILITY, AND IN REGARD TO THE ONES THAT WERE
NOT APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
AND SO THE ADVICE I GOT WAS THAT I HAVE A DUTY TO THE
PUBLIC, VOTERS, TO DISCLOSE, AND ALSO TO TRY TO FIX THE
PROBLEM.

AND SO THE ISSUE IS THEY WERE NOT APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL,
AND THE ADVICE I HAVE GOTTEN OUTSIDE IS THEY CAN BE APPROVED
BY CITY COUNCIL RETROACTIVELY.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ASK LEGAL STAFF TO
REVIEW ALL THE SETTLEMENT CONTRACTS/AGREEMENTS THAT WERE
OVER 25,000, THAT WERE SIGNED WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL,
SINCE 2018, AND TO REPORT TO COUNCIL ON JANUARY 19th
DURING STAFF REPORTS AS TO HOW COUNCIL CAN APPROVE THEM
RETROACTIVELY.
3:41:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
3:41:06PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU.
I AM NOT AGAINST WHAT YOU ARE SAYING JUST NOW.
WHAT I AM THINKING IN MY HEAD IS, THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS
THE ONLY DEPARTMENT THAT I KNOW OF THAT HAS THAT -- THEY
KNOW WHAT THE LIABILITY COULD BE AND NOT MAKE A SETTLEMENT.
WE DON'T.
THEY KNOW WHAT THE CHANCES ARE OF WINNING.
WE DON'T.
SO IF THAT'S GOING TO START, IF THEY DON'T SETTLE SOMETHING,
AND WE REJECT IT AND IT GOES TO COURT AND YOU ARE GOING TO
BE PAYING A $2 MILLION SETTLEMENT INSTEAD OF A $50,000
SETTLEMENT.
3:41:43PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THAT'S IN REGARD TO THE ORDINANCE THEY ARE
GOING TO COME BACK WITH LATER.
THESE ARE JUST THE ONES OVER THE LAST FOYER YEARS THAT WERE

NOT APPROVED.
AND ALL I AM ASKING IS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY REVIEW THEM
WITH US, AND THEN COME BACK TO US WITH THEIR ADVICE ON WHAT
WE SHOULD DO TO RETROACTIVELY APPROVE THEM.
THE OUTSIDE ADVICE I HAVE GOTTEN IS THAT CITY COUNCIL, SINCE
THEY WERE SIGNED WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL -- AND I AM TRYING TO
NOT TALK ABOUT THIS TOO MUCH HERE, AND WE CAN IF YOU WANT,
BUT IT SAYS SINCE THEY WERE APPROVED WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL AND THE CHARTER REQUIRES THE CITY COUNCIL TO
APPROVE IT, THE BEST LEGAL COURSE THAT I HAVE GOTTEN ADVICE
ON IS THAT WE SHOULD APPROVE THEM RETROACTIVELY AND NOT
LIKELY DO IT ALL AT ONCE.
3:42:26PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I CAN ONLY SAY ON MY PART I AM NOT SURE
THE CHARTER SAYS THAT.
THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT THAT DEALS
WITH --
AND WE START WILL GO AT WHAT THEY DO OR DON'T DO, IT'S GOING
TO BE A DRAG ON THE CITY, AND I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY.
3:42:48PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I PASSED OUT AN ORDINANCE THAT IS STILL IN
THE BOOKS FROM 2006 THAT WAS SIGNED BY CITY ATTORNEY, CITY
COUNCIL AND MAYOR IORIO, AND WHAT THAT ORDINANCE SAYS IS
THAT CITY ATTORNEY HAS THE RIGHT TO APPROVE -- THE RIGHT TO
APPROVE SETTLEMENTS UNDER $25 SAW THAT.
SO WHAT I AM ASKING FOR IS THE ONES OVER $25,000.
3:43:16PM >> COUNCILMAN VIERA, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

3:43:19PM >>LUIS VIERA:
VERY BRIEFLY, AGAIN.
WITH THIS, GIVEN I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY SETTLEMENTS HAVE BEEN
ENTERED INTO, AND I DON'T WANT DO GET INTO IT BECAUSE I
DON'T WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE IDEAS THAT THIS COULD BE A
POTENTIAL CAN OF WORMS ON CERTAIN UNIQUE TYPES OF CASES THAT
WOULD UNDERMINE, I THINK, THE WELFARE OF THE CITY
ULTIMATELY.
I CAN PRIVATELY INQUIRE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON A
NUMBER OF ISSUES INVOLVING THIS.
I AM NOT PREPARED TO VOTE ON THIS TODAY.
I WOULD VOTE NO ON IT.
RESPECTFULLY, I THINK IT WOULD OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS ON
MANY, MANY ISSUES POTENTIALLY.
AND I JUST SAY THAT FROM MY EXPERIENCE.
I DON'T THINK IT'S WISE.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT.
AND I AM GLAD TO SUPPORT YOUR ORDINANCE.
I THINK THAT'S A WONDERFUL THING THAT WE ARE DOING, AND
WHATNOT, FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE BUT THIS I THINK WOULD
HAVE A LOT OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, CONSEQUENCES THAT
MAKER OF THE MOTION OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T INTEND BUT MAY
ULTIMATELY GO THERE.
SO AGAIN WITHOUT GETTING INTO THINGS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO
OPEN UP CANS OF WARMS BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE COLLEGIAL AND
SUPPORT MOTIONS AND COME BACK FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION BUT

ON THIS ONE, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CON OF WORMS THERE.
THANK YOU.
3:44:41PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
3:44:42PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MY QUESTION IS, RETROACTIVELY APPROVE
OR NOT APPROVE A SETTLEMENT, LET'S SAY IT'S A MILLION DOLLAR
SETTLEMENT THAT WAS APPROVED THREE YEARS AGO.
WE MADE THE PAYOUT TO SAID INDIVIDUAL.
WE NOW DO NOT APPROVE IT RETROACTIVELY.
DO WE SUE THAT INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO GET THAT MONEY BACK?
WHAT HAPPENS?
3:45:04PM >>BILL CARLSON:
AND AS I SAY, I CAN TALK ABOUT THIS AS MUCH
AS YOU WANT BUT THE CAN OF WORMS WAS OPENED A FEW WEEKS AGO
WHEN WE FOUND OUT THAT THIS RULE WAS CHANGED I THINK WITHOUT
COUNCIL'S KNOWLEDGE BY A TWO PARAGRAPH MEMO, WHILE THE
ORDINANCE FROM 2006 IS STILL ON THE BOOKS, AND SO THE ADVICE
I GOT WAS THAT WE NEED TO APPROVE THEM RETROACTIVELY.
AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT THEM TO DECIDE WHETHER
WE ARE GOING TO APPROVE THEM OR NOT, THAT WE HAVE TO APPROVE
THEM RETROACTIVELY.
THAT PREVENT IT IS BIGGER CAN OF WORMS FROM OPENING.
SO IF YOU ALL VOTE THIS DOWN, AT LEAST I HAVE DONE MY DUTY
TO PUT THIS ON THE TABLE AND TRY TO PROTECT THE CITY.
3:45:46PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
3:45:51PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO,
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.

AND IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
BUT IS IT THE RIGHT TIME RIGHT NOW?
I THINK EVERYONE HAS GOT A SITUATION.
I HAVE GOT A SITUATION.
I HAVE HAD SEVERAL LOOK AT THE SAME STUFF AND SAY THE PRIOR
STATE ATTORNEY WAS IN VIOLATION OF THAT.
ALL SAID THE SAME THING THAT THE CHARTER WAS SPECIFIC ON
THAT ITEM BUT NOW WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR FOR THE
ORDINANCE TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND WE WILL DEAL WITH BY SITUATION WHEN THAT COMES OUT.
BUT RIGHT NOW, THOSE THINGS ARE DEBATE NOW.
YOU MIGHT LOOK UP SOME OTHER STUFF, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE
POTENTIALLY HURTFUL TO THE CITY.
SO MAYBE IT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO LIGHT AND BROUGHT TO LIGHT,
AND A NEW ORDINANCE AND MOVE ON FROM THERE.
I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO, THOUGH.
YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.
3:46:50PM >> WAS THERE A SECOND ON YOUR MOTION, COUNCILMAN CARLSON?
IS THERE A SECOND ON COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S MOTION?
3:47:03PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WILL SECOND IT FOR DISCUSSION.
3:47:07PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
3:47:20PM >> [OFF MICROPHONE]

3:47:31PM >>BILL CARLSON:
-- MY MOTION, THAT CITY COUNCIL REQUEST THAT
THE OF CITY ATTORNEY REVIEW THE CONTRACTS OVER 25,000, SINCE
2018, THAT WERE NOT APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL FOR ANY CITY
COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO REQUEST IT.
THE REASON WHY I MADE THAT MOTION IS OTHERWISE I AM GOING TO
GET CHARGED PUBLIC RECORDS IF I PULL IT.
3:47:57PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
[OFF MICROPHONE]
3:48:07PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES?
3:48:09PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE MOTION WAS TO SEE -- I DON'T HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH THAT.
3:48:15PM >>BILL CARLSON:
OR ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO SEE THEM.
3:48:17PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
3:48:29PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU, SIR.
SO YOU ARE ASKING THAT THOSE RECORDS BE MADE AVAILABLE TO
YOU.
3:48:36PM >>BILL CARLSON:
TO ANY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO WANTS TO SEE
THEM.
3:48:39PM >>LUIS VIERA:
OKAY.
THE CHALLENGE WITH THAT IS GOING TO BE, I MEAN, AND AGAIN, I
DISCUSS IT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
I'M SURE THERE IS A TON OF SETTLEMENTS OVER $25,000.
I AM JUST NOT SURE OF THE WORK, ET CETERA.
IF YOU WANT TO LOOK INTO THEM, PUBLIC RECORD, I'M SURE

THAT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST.
3:49:00PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
ANY OPPOSED?
3:49:08PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM NOT SURE WHAT I AM HEARING, BECAUSE
I JUST WANT IT CLEAR IN MY MIND.
I'M THINKING ABOUT THE WHAT-IFS.
THEY ARE MAKING YOU PAY FOR THIS?
THAT'S WHAT YOU ASK THEM TO DO?
3:49:22PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THAT IS A DIFFERENT ONE.
THIS IS A DOCUMENT THAT ANY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER SHOULD BE
ABLE TO LOOK AT.
I HAVEN'T ASKED FOR IT YET.
BUT PROBABLY IT WILL REQUIRE -- THEY WILL TRY TO DO A LEGAL
REVIEW AND CHARGE ME FOR A LEGAL FEE.
SO THE REST OF YOU MAY 2022 LOOK AT THEM, TOO.
BUT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO THE CITY AND TAXPAYERS, SO I AM
JUST CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT'S IN THERE.
3:49:53PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I THINK WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE.
HOWEVER, I HAVE GOT A -- FOR MY ATTORNEY TO READ IT TO SEE
IF IT QUALIFIES.
I AM NOT DOUBTING YOUR WORDING.
BUT I HAVE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT X IN THE CHARTER.
3:50:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
AND GIVEN THE 2006 ORDINANCE, PLEASE.

GIVEN THE 2006 ORDINANCE, THE ONE THAT WHERE CITY COUNCIL
APPROVED BY THE MAYOR AND THE CITY ATTORNEY GAVE THE CITY
ATTORNEY THE RIGHT TO --
3:50:22PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WE DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR IT.
3:50:25PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THE QUESTION IS -- AND AGAIN I DON'T WANT TO
DISSECT THIS -- WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?
DOES THAT INCLUDE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS?
DOES THAT INCLUDE CLAIM FILES?
IN OTHER WORDS --
3:50:40PM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS.
3:50:42PM >>LUIS VIERA:
JUST THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS.
ARE SETTLE AGREEMENTS -- AND I DON'T KNOW THIS.
I HAVE NEVER DEALT IN PUBLIC SECTOR LIKE THIS -- ARE
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS THEMSELVES PUBLIC RECORDS?
3:50:56PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SOME OF THEM ARE.
3:50:57PM >>LUIS VIERA:
AND THAT'S WHY -- I MEAN, MAYBE I WOULD 2022
ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY ON A FEW ISSUES THAT I AM THINKING OF.
AND IF IT WAS LIKE A PRINTOUT OF X VERSUS X, PAYOUT THIS
AMOUNT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I'M SURE THAT'S REASONABLE.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP -- I DON'T WANT TO USE CAN OF
WORMS AGAIN -- I JUST DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP SOMETHING THAT
COULD RESULT IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF RECORDS GETTING OUT THERE.
AGAIN --
3:51:28PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULDN'T TAKE ANY OF THEM.
I WOULD SIT IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND REVIEW THEM.

DID WE VOTE ON IT?
3:51:38PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE, PLEASE.
3:51:40PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AM GOING TO SAY NO.
3:51:44PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
3:51:45PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
3:51:46PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I THINK I WOULD PROBABLY SAY NO NOT THAT I
DON'T WANT TO THE SUPPORT THE REQUEST.
I WANT MORE SPECIFICITY.
3:51:56PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
3:51:59PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
NO.
3:52:02PM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION FAILED --
3:52:06PM >>LUIS VIERA:
BRING IT BACK NEXT WEEK, AND I AM SURE I
COULD VOTE YES.
3:52:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ANOTHER MOTION,
PLEASE.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY COME
BACK AT STAFF REPORTS NEXT WEEK TO REVIEW HOW TO DEAL WITH
THE CONTRACTS THAT WERE NOT SIGNED SINCE 2018 OVER 25,000.
AND TO DISCUSS WHETHER CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AS OFFICERS OF
THE CITY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REVIEW THE AGREEMENTS.
DECEMBER 1st.
THANK YOU.
3:52:45PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HOW MANY DO WE HAVE SET FOR DECEMBER
1st?
3:52:51PM >>THE CLERK:
[OFF MICROPHONE]

3:53:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WE CAN DO IT ON -- DECEMBER 15th.
3:53:16PM >>THE CLERK:
[OFF MICROPHONE]
3:53:27PM >>BILL CARLSON:
JANUARY 19th.
3:53:28PM >> I AM FINE WITH THAT ONE.
3:53:32PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
3:53:34PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
SECOND TO THAT MOTION?
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR?
3:53:41PM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST CONGRATS TO YVETTE LEWIS AND THE NEW
BOARD OF THE NAACP LAST NIGHT.
3:53:51PM >> SECOND.
3:53:52PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
3:54:02PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYTHING ELSE?
3:54:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
DECEMBER 4th WILL BE MY PASTOR KAYEB
BARNUM, 50th BIRTHDAY, AND I WISH TO PRESENT HIM WITH A
COMMENDATION OFF-SITE.
3:54:22PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
MOTION BY CHAIRMAN CITRO.
SECOND BY MEMBER GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR?
OPPOSED?
ANYTHING ELSE?
MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
3:54:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR?
[SOUNDING GAVEL]
[MEETING ADJOURNED]

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