Tampa City Council Workshop
Thursday, February 23, 2023
9:00 a.m.

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09:03:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE WE GOOD?
OKAY, GOOD MORNING, TAMPA CITY COUNCIL IS NOW IN SESSION ON
THIS DAY OF FEBRUARY 23, 2023.
IF WE CAN ALL PLEASE STAND FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOLLOWED
BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
[MOMENT OF SILENCE]
THANK YOU.
[PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]
09:04:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
PLEASE BE SEATED.
MAY WE HAVE ROLL CALL PLEASE.
09:04:19AM >>BILL CARLSON:
HERE.
09:04:26AM >>LUIS VIERA:
HERE.
09:04:28AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
HERE.
09:04:29AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
HERE.
09:04:35AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE.
09:04:36AM >>CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
09:04:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
COUNCILMAN GUDES WILL BE HERE A FEW MINUTES -- [FEEDBACK]
--
09:04:47AM >> SORRY.
09:04:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES WILL BE A FEW MINUTES LATE,
AND COUNCILMAN MIRANDA WILL NOT BE WITH US.
HE IS FEELING UNDER THE WEATHER.
MR. SHELBY.
09:04:58AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YES, GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF
COUNCIL.
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
TO CONTINUE VIRTUAL MEETINGS VIA CMT, I ASK COUNCIL TO WAIVE
RULES TO ALLOW THAT.
09:05:11AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SO MOVED.
09:05:14AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SECOND.
09:05:15AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
09:05:19AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU, SIR.
09:05:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AT THIS TIME, WE WILL HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYONE IN CHAMBERS WISHING TO GIVE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS
TIME, WOULD YOU PLEASE FORM A LINE ON MY LEFT, YOUR RIGHT.
THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT.
09:05:36AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN.
JUST A REMINDER TO THE PUBLIC THAT PER COUNCIL WORKSHOP
RULES, PUBLIC HAVE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AFTER EACH
ITEM IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO SPECIFIC ITEMS.
THIS TIME IS FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT.
IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK NOW TOWARD THE ITEMS, YOU MAY, BUT YOU
WILL ONLY HAVE ONE OPPORTUNITY.
SPEAK TO THE ITEM THIS MORNING AT THIS POINT OR WHEN THE
ITEM COMES UP.
ANYTHING OFF THE AGENDA FOR A SUBJECT YOU WANT TO RAISE, NOW
WOULD BE THAT TIME.
THANK YOU.
09:06:15AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
MR. SHELBY, WE HAVE SOME ITEMS ON THE AGENDA
THAT IF -- IF WE DECIDE NOT TO TAKE UP, PEOPLE MAY STILL
WANT TO TAKE TO THEM STILL.
09:06:26AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT MAY BE TOO.
DO YOU WANT TO DO HOUSEKEEPING FOR THE CONTINUANCES OR WAIT
UNTIL AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT?
09:06:33AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I WOULD PREFER TO GO BY OUR AGENDA.
IF WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THE AGENDA ITEMS AT THIS TIME.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE EXCUSE ME IF YOU WOULD AT THIS
TIME.
WHO DO WE HAVE THAT IS GOING TO DO THE AGENDA REVIEW WITH US
HERE?
09:06:46AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NORMALLY FOR A WORKSHOP, NO APPROVAL OF THE
AGENDA, BUT BEING AS HOW THERE ARE -- IF COUNCIL WISHES TO
ADD THAT, THAT IS YOUR PREROGATIVE.
09:06:58AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THEN FROM STAFF THAT WANTS TO HELP US GO
THROUGH THE AGENDA OR OTHERWISE WE WILL DO THAT RIGHT NOW.
ITEM NUMBER 1.
OUR RECIPIENT WILL BE HERE.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2?
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
09:07:11AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN VIERA,
DID YOU HAVE A REQUEST WITH REGARD -- OH, THAT IS NUMBER 3.
09:07:19AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
09:07:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2?
09:07:27AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
WE HAVE A LETTER AND POWERPOINT
PRESENTATION.
09:07:30AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE WILL KEEP THAT.
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
09:07:32AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES, SIR, MR. CHAIR, ITEM NUMBER 3, REQUESTED
BY STAFF THIS BE CONTINUED UNTIL SEPTEMBER -- OR JUST TO BE
CONTINUED, I GUESS.
I AM FINE WITH THAT.
THE DISABILITY HOUSING WORKSHOP.
I DON'T -- WAS THERE A MEMO FROM STAFF REQUESTING A DATE?
09:07:51AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I BELIEVE I SPOKE TO YOUR LEGISLATIVE AIDE
AND SAID THE DATE OF APRIL 6 HAS BEEN REQUESTED.
09:07:59AM >>LUIS VIERA:
FINE WITH ME.
I SO MOVE, IF I MAY.
09:08:02AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SECOND.
09:08:04AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MISS TRAVIS, YOU ARE ON.
DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THIS?
YOU ARE MUTED.
MISS TRAVIS, YOU ARE MUTED.
NO, YOU ARE STILL MUTED.
MISS TRAVIS, YOU ARE STILL MUTED.
I.T.?
ALL RIGHT, COUNCILMAN VIERA, DO YOU HAVE A DEFINITE DATE ON
THAT?
09:08:46AM >>LUIS VIERA:
I BELIEVE IT WAS APRIL 6, IF I RECALL.
09:08:49AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
APRIL 6 UNDER STAFF REPORTS.
09:08:51AM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES, SIR SORRY UNDER STAFF -- I THOUGHT IT WAS
GOING TO BE A WORKSHOP.
09:08:57AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
APRIL 6 IS NOT A WORKSHOP DAY.
09:09:01AM >>LUIS VIERA:
OKAY.
TELL YOU WHAT FOR PURPOSES OF TODAY BECAUSE WE HAVE A VERY
FULL AGENDA, I WILL MOVE IT TO APRIL 6.
I WANT THIS TO BE A WORKSHOP BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE STAFF
REPORT TO TURN INTO A WORKSHOP.
FOR PURPOSES OF TIME, APRIL 6, AND BRANDON, IF YOU DON'T
MIND, WE WILL FOLLOW UP.
YES, THANK YOU, SIR.
09:09:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MISS TRAVIS, ARE YOU THERE NOW?
STILL MUTED.
I APOLOGIZE.
09:09:24AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN.
WE CAN COME BACK AND IF THERE ARE ANY CHANGES --
09:09:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 4.
09:09:35AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES, PLEASE.
09:09:37AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 5?
09:09:42AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
I ACTUALLY WANT TO KEEP THIS ON BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE --
YES.
I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
09:09:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 6, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK?
09:09:54AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
I WANT -- I BELIEVE THAT MR. MASSEY HAS A REPORT FOR US.
09:10:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 7, COUNCILMAN CARLSON?
09:10:07AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES, YES, PLEASE.
09:10:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 8, COUNCILMAN CARLSON?
09:10:13AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES, PLEASE.
09:10:14AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA NUMBER 9, VIERA AND MANISCALCO.
09:10:18AM >>LUIS VIERA:
IF I MAY, SIR, YES, SIR.
IF I MAY, I WILL BRIEFLY ADDRESS THIS ISSUE WITH ALL THE
WORKSHOPS, NOT TO THE SUBSTANCE OF -- WE WILL NOT GET TO ALL
OF THESE TODAY.
IF WE DO, I WILL BE VERY SURPRISED.
WE NEED TO LIMIT WORKSHOPS.
THAT IS FOR ANOTHER ISSUE.
WITH REGARDS TO THIS, THE PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN, I GOT AN
E-MAIL REQUESTING THIS TO BE MOVED TO MARCH 16 OF 2023.
OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THIS.
I HAD SPOKEN WITH TAMPA FIRE RESCUE, CHIEF TRIPP, WHO I
BELIEVE -- I SAW HER OUTSIDE -- SHE MAY BE HERE.
AND I DON'T NEED CHIEF TRIPP.
I DON'T THINK I NEED YOU UP HERE, MA'AM, UNLESS YOU WISH TO
OBVIOUSLY.
I HAVE NO ACTION TO THAT.
AGAIN, I STATE THAT WHEN THIS DOES COME BACK TO US, BECAUSE
I -- I INQUIRED ON THIS ISSUE BEFORE WHEN IT FIRST CAME UP
THAT IF -- IF SOMETHING BE VERY ROBUST AND POTENTIALLY HAVE
A CONSULTANT IF NEED BE, IF WE CAN HAVE A GOOD ROBUST REPORT
ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN WITHOUT A CONSULTANT,
WONDERFUL.
I STATE THAT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS.
PAUSE THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION TO HAVE.
I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO MARCH 16.
09:11:31AM >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIR.
09:11:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
09:11:35AM >>BILL CARLSON:
NICK STOCCO IS HERE FROM THE FIRE FIGHTERS.
AND JUST LIKE ON ONE OF THESE OTHERS, I THINK THEY MAY -- I
DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC COMMENT OR KEEP
THAT ON THE AGENDA.
BUT -- THANK YOU COUNCILMEMBER VIERA FOR LEADING ON THIS
ISSUE AND MAKING SURE WE STAY AHEAD OF IT.
BUT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE UPDATES FROM THE -- FROM THE
EXPERTS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT COULD HELP MOVE THIS ALONG
FASTER.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU -- NICK, DO YOU WANT TO COVER IT IN
PUBLIC -- DON'T SAY THE SUBSTANCE NOW.
BUT ARE YOU OKAY COVERING IT IN PUBLIC COMMENT OR ENOUGH
SUBSTANCE TO LEAD THE ISSUE ON THE AGENDA.
09:12:12AM >> I AM OKAY WITH PUBLIC COMMENT.
09:12:15AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:12:16AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
09:12:17AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IF THE UNION PRESIDENT WILL SPEAK, I WOULD
LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE CHIEF, AND THE CHIEF TO TELL US A
DEFENSIVE TIMELINE WHEN THE SAFETY MASTER PLAN WILL BE DONE.
THAT IS FAIR TO EVERYBODY SO WE CAN KNOW WHERE WE ARE AT IN
THE PROCESS SO WE DON'T KICK IT DOWN THE ROAD.
BRING IT TO A CLOSE.
I AM SURE SHE IS DOING THE BEST SHE CAN, BUT IF SHE CAN
NARROW IT DOWN A LITTLE MORE AND MORE DEFINITIVE TIMELINE.
09:12:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCIL DOESN'T MIND, WE WILL SPENT ENOUGH
TIME TO KEEP IT ON THE AGENDA.
LET'S TPD IT ON THE AGENDA.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 10.
COUNCILMAN GUDES?
09:12:54AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
09:12:55AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 11.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK?
09:13:01AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
THEY ARE REQUESTING A CONTINUANCES; HOWEVER, THE
REPRESENTATIVES OF THE -- OF THE SIERRA CLUB AND THE FRIENDS
OF THE RIVER ARE PLANNING TO PRESENT.
WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THIS ON BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO
PRESENT EVEN IF THE CITY -- OR THE -- THE STAFF IS NOT
PREPARED.
09:13:18AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
09:13:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 12.
THIS IS COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
09:13:24AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THIS ITEM IS GOING TO BE CONTINUED ALONG WITH
SEVERAL OTHER ITEMS.
13 AND 14, I BELIEVE.
AND SO I AM -- I AM FINE WITH 12 BEING CONTINUED TO
SEPTEMBER 28.
09:13:42AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
OKAY, A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
THEN COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, THERE IS ALSO A CONTINUANCE FOR
APRIL 28 ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 13.
09:14:00AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES, FOR 13 AND 14, BOTH MY MOTIONS.
I AM FINE SO WE CAN ALL HEAR EVERYTHING TOGETHER.
MOVE ITEM 13 TO SEPTEMBER 30, 2023.
09:14:10AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SECOND.
09:14:12AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO AND
SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ANY OBJECTIONS?
MOTION PASSES.
09:14:19AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MOVE TO SEPTEMBER 28, 2023.
09:14:23AM >> SECOND.
09:14:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO TO CONTINUE
ITEM 14 UNTIL SEPTEMBER 28.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
09:14:35AM >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:14:37AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
09:14:42AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I GOT A LOT OF CALL FROM NEIGHBORHOOD
LEADERS OF THESE THREE.
IN THE INTERIM, IF STAFF CAN HAVE A MEETING WITH A GROUP OF
THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERS TO BRIEF THEM ON THIS AND THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF IT AND WILL SAVE A LOT OF TIME IN THE
MEETING WHEN THIS FINALLY COMES UP.
THANK YOU.
09:14:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 15.
09:15:00AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THIS -- THIS IS ABOUT THE SAFETY AND SECURITY
OF PARKING LOTS IN YBOR.
AND THE REASON THEY WANT THIS CONTINUANCE BECAUSE THE
COMMUNITY HAS CREATED A NEW SAFETY GROUP THAT THEY WANT TO
HAVE TIME TO WORK ON THIS.
THEREFORE, I AM FINE WITH CONTINUING THIS BECAUSE THE
COMMUNITY IS ASKING FOR THAT.
09:15:18AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MOTION, PLEASE.
09:15:20AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
MOTION TO CONTINUE UNTIL SEPTEMBER 28.
09:15:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION TO CONTINUE AGENDA ITEM 15 TO
SEPTEMBER 28, 2023.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
09:15:34AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ITEM NUMBER 10.
GO BACK THERE FOR A SECOND --
09:15:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S FINISH ON ITEM 15.
ANY OBJECTIONS?
09:15:42AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NO OBJECTIONS.
09:15:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
09:15:47AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE FOR ITEM 10 TO APRIL
7, 2023.
09:15:54AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SECOND.
09:15:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES TO CONTINUE ITEM
NUMBER 10 UNTIL APRIL 27, 2023.
SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ALL IN FAVOR.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
09:16:10AM >>BILL CARLSON:
ON NUMBER 15 SAFETY AND SECURITY OF PARKING
LOTS IN YBOR.
WE HAD HEARD A LOT, A LOT, A LOT OF COMPLAINTS OVER THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS.
I PERSONALLY SEEN WHAT APPEARS TO BE A HIGHER POLICE
PRESENCE.
AND I AM GETTING MORE COMPLIMENTS ON HOWEVER IT IS BEING
HANDLED NOW.
I KNOW PEOPLE STILL HAVE CONCERNS, BUT THANK YOU TO
EVERYBODY WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN TRYING TO FIX THAT
PROBLEM.
09:16:33AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I KNOW THAT PEOPLE DOWN AT THE -- EXCUSE ME,
THE YBOR CITY CRA HAS BEEN WORKING VERY, VERY HARD AND
WORKING WITH TPD ON THAT.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING STEPS AND INITIATIVES THE YBOR CITY CAC
AND CRA.
NOW LET'S START WITH PUBLIC COMMENT --
09:16:59AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN, I KNOW YOU WANT TO GET THERE,
BUT IF YOU DON'T MIND.
09:17:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES:
09:17:04AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WANT TO WELCOME THE CHARLOTTE,
NORTH CAROLINA OFFICIALS IN TOWN.
THEY ARE IN TOWN VISITING OUR CITY LOOKING WHAT WE ARE
DOING.
I ALWAYS THOUGHT CHARLOTTE WAS ABOVE US, BUT THEY ARE
LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WE ARE DOING.
A GOOD FRIEND CALLED ME TO GO TO WATER STREET TO MEET SOME
OF THEM.
I WISH WE WOULD HAVE KNOWN THEY WERE HERE AND COULD HAVE
VISITED THE DISTRICT 5 PERSON IN CHARLOTTE.
I HAD A GREAT CONVERSATION WITH SOME OF THE SCHOOL BOARD
MEMBERS THERE.
I WANT TO WELCOME THEM TO TAMPA.
IF THEY ARE HERE IN THE AUDIENCE OR DOWNTOWN, FEEL FREE TO
COME BY CITY HALL AND MEET SOME OF US.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:17:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU ARE WELCOME.
AGAIN, AGENDA, I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN STANDING THERE WAITING
TO SPEAK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, AND I THANK YOU FOR INDULGING
US.
SIR, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO START PUBLIC COMMENT.
09:17:52AM >> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL.
TONY HOUGHMAN.
B AND E TOWING AND RECOVERY IN COMPANY.
I'M HERE TO SPEAK OF THE ISSUE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA
IMPLEMENT BID.
IT WAS COUNSELLED YESTERDAY AND WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
THANK YOU TO YOU FOR ALL YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THAT.
I WILL, HOWEVER, SUGGEST THAT A WORKSHOP BE PUT TOGETHER OF
STAFF OF COUNCIL, THE CITY OF TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT,
CERTAINLY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
WE KNOW THIS -- THE OTHER IS NOT GOING AWAY.
IT HAS TO BE RESOLVED.
HOW IT IS RESOLVED, I THINK, WILL TAKE COLLECTIVE MINDS TO
PUT TOGETHER WHAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND.
CERTAINLY FROM THE TOWING INDUSTRY SIDE, WE KNOW HOW TO
STORE CARS.
OKAY.
FROM LEGAL, WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS TO
HAPPEN FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S SIDE FOR MAINTAINING
CHAIN OF CUSTODY ON EVIDENCE.
SO IF WE WERE TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER WE
MIGHT HAVE INPUT HOW TO PUT THIS TOGETHER AND MAKE IT WORK.
ONCE AGAIN, I THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN
PUT FORWARD ON THIS.
WE KNOW IT HAS TO BE RESOLVE AND STAND READY TO HELP YOU.
THANK YOU.
09:19:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:19:08AM >> GOOD MORNING.
THANK YOU FOR LETTING US COME AND SHARE OUR OPINIONS ABOUT
THIS TOWING FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA.
MY NAME IS DENNIS WITH TOWING OF TAMPA AND WE ARE OUT HERE
TO ASSIST TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT IN TAKING CARE OF THE
VEHICLES AND STUFF.
OUR CONCERN IS.
THEY MONOPOLIZE WITH ONE TOW COMPANY IN EMPTYING THE YARD,
THINGS THEY CAN TO DO HELP THE CITY MOVE FORWARD.
AS FAR AS ALL THESE COMPANIES, PUTTING ONE COMPANY IN CHARGE
WILL BE A BIG MISTAKE BECAUSE YOU WILL BE PUTTING A LOT OF
LITTLE BUSINESSES OUT OF BUSINESS AND MANY PEOPLE THAT THESE
COMPANIES THAT ARE ON ROTATION, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT
WE PUT TO WORK BECAUSE OF IT.
YOU KNOW TAMPA IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.
KEEP EVERYBODY MOVING.
KEEP EVERYBODY WORKING ESPECIALLY WITH THE HOUSING
INDUSTRIES AND THE PRICES AND STUFF, PEOPLE NEED TO WORK.
YOU PUT ONE COMPANY -- THEY ARE NOT GOING TO HIRE ALL THE
PEOPLE LAID OFF FROM SMALLER COMPANIES.
THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN.
IF WE CAN -- IF EVOLVE INTO HELPING YOU MAINTAIN THE
INTEGRITY OF THE CARS AND STUFF THAT NEED TO BE STORED FOR
THE PROTECTION FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THINGS LIKE
THAT.
A BIG MISTAKE TO JUST DROP EVERYBODY OFF.
SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
09:20:31AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:20:32AM >> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCILMEMBERS.
MARK FENNER WITH ADVANTAGE TOWING AND WE ARE HERE
BECAUSE OF THE BID.
CAUGHT US OFF-GUARD WHEN WE RECEIVED THIS.
WE TALKED AMONGST OURSELVES AND REACHED OUT TO ATTORNEYS AND
EVERYBODY ELSE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE CAN DO.
I AM GLAD THAT THE BID HAS BEEN CANCELLED.
I AGREE WITH TONY WHO SPOKE ABOUT -- THE FIRST PERSON OUT
HERE SPEAKING.
HE WAS SAYING THAT WE NEED TO HAVE MORE INTERACTION WITH YOU
GUYS, A LITTLE BIT OF A WORKSHOP SO EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD
WITH THE SAME THING.
I HATE TO SEE ONE COMPANY GETTING A BID SUCH AS THIS.
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH TAMPA POLICE FOR A NUMBER OF
YEARS.
I THINK WE ALL HAVE DONE A RELATIVELY GOOD JOB DOING SO, AT
LEAST WE HOPE WE HAVE.
WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO DO IT WELL.
DENNIS BEFORE ME SPOKE A LITTLE BIT SAYING IT WILL HAVE A
HUGE IMPACT ON OUR EMPLOYEES, OUR BUSINESSES.
THESE ARE ALL THINGS WE WANT TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION.
PLEASE LOOK OUT FOR US.
WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK OUT FOR YOU GUYS, FOR YEARS.
WE SHOWED UP TODAY AND MORE PEOPLE WILL BE SPEAKING BEHIND
ME.
WE WANT TO SHOW THAT EVERYBODY HERE IS TRYING TO WORK
TOGETHER TO CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY DONE AND
ALWAYS DONE FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA.
AND HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY APPRECIATES IT AND WE CAN CONTINUE
WORKING WITH YOU GUYS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
09:21:56AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
09:22:00AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I DON'T USUALLY INTERRUPT DURING THESE
CONVERSATIONS.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO THE PUBLIC WHAT HAPPENED.
SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS.
NOT SOMETHING THAT CITY COUNCIL INITIATED AND A RPF.
YOU ARE COMING BEFORE US TO ALERT US ABOUT THAT.
FOR THE PUBLIC'S SAKE, LET US KNOW.
09:22:19AM >> CERTAINLY.
SO THE BID CAME OUT ON FRIDAY THROUGH THE DEMAND STAR WHICH
THE CITY OF TAMPA USES AS THEIR PLATFORM.
09:22:27AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
GIVE US YOUR NAME.
09:22:29AM >> TONY HOUGHMAN, B AND E TOWING.
THE BID CAME OUT AND, OF COURSE, ALL THE TOWERS INVOLVED
WITH THE ROTATION LIST OF THE CITY OF TAMPA STARTED CALLING
ONE ANOTHER.
WHERE DID THIS COME FROM?
OUT OF LEFT FIELD.
NOBODY HAD BEEN NOTE FIGHT THAT A BID WAS EVEN LOOMING.
IT CAME OUT.
WE ALL SPOKE WITH ONE ANOTHER.
WENT THROUGH THE BID PACKET.
IN ITS CURRENT FORM IT'S DEAD.
BUT IN THE POST FORM, IT SUGGESTED THAT ONLY ONE TOWING
COMPANY BE USED FOR ALL ROTATION IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
IT ALSO SUGGESTED THAT THIS COMPANY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE
IMPOUND STORAGE FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR
SEIZED VEHICLES, FATALITIES, SO FORTH, VEHICLES THAT ARE
NORMALLY KEPT AT 34th STREET RIGHT NOW.
AS I AM SURE YOU ARE AWARE, 34th STREET IS CLOSING DOWN.
THE CITY OF TAMPA IS MOVING TO A FACILITY THAT IS MUCH
SMALLER.
I AM TALKING WAY SMALLER.
AND IN MY MIND'S EYE, THIS WAS A MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE RIGHT
FROM THE GET-GO.
UNDERSTANDING WHAT, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY IS NECESSARY IN ORDER
TO STORE THESE VEHICLES.
IT IS SOMETHING THE CITY CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDS BECAUSE THEY
MAINTAINED 34th STREET FOR YEARS.
MOVING TO A SMALLER FACILITY CERTAINLY -- IT IS NOT GOING TO
HAPPEN.
BUT TO THAT END, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I AM CERTAINLY
HAPPY TO --
09:23:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
09:23:58AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CHIEF, CAN YOU COME TO THE PODIUM, PLEASE.
I HAVE GOT SOME QUESTIONS.
BECAUSE AS I RECALL, WHEN WE -- THIS COUNCIL VOTED FOR THE
IMPOUND LOT, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION IT WAS GOING TO BE
ABLE TO MANAGE THE CITY.
BUT THIS GENTLEMAN IS SAYING IT IS MUCH SMALLER THAN WHAT OUR
CURRENT IMPOUND -- AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE INBOUND
LOT IS USED FOR OUR SEIZED VEHICLES, EVIDENCE VEHICLES AND
SO FORTH.
SO I -- I -- I AM KIND OF BAFFLED THAT HE IS SAYING IT IS
SMALLER THAN WHAT WE HAVE OUT THERE.
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION -- THIS PROJECT THAT THIS COUNCIL
VOTED FOR WAS ABLE TO CURE THE PROBLEMS FOR THE NEEDS OF THE
CITY.
NUMBER TWO, AS IT RELATES TO -- LIKE TWO YEARS -- TWO AND A
HALF YEARS, STARKS TOWING HAVE BEEN CALLING ME ABOUT THIS
TOW ISSUE.
I THOUGHT MIKE SMITH WAS WORKING ON THAT AND DEALING WITH
THOSE ISSUES.
THEN I HEAR THIS.
IF YOU CAN ELABORATE THAT FACILITY AND WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED
TO MAINTAIN AND THIS COUNCIL KNOW WHAT IS WE ARE VOTING ON
AND WHAT THE BANG FOR THE BUCK IS GETTING.
09:25:04AM >>LEE BERCAW:
INTERIM CHIEF LEE BERCAW.
HEARING FROM THE COMMUNITY IS WHY WE PULLED THAT.
WE HAVE AND LISTENING DATE SESSION.
HE DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME.
YOU SHOULD KNOW THE DATE.
THE SAME DATE TO GET THE FEEDBACK TO AMEND THAT.
MIKE SCHMID DID RESEARCH AND OTHER CITIES THAT HAD A SUCCESS
USING A SIMILAR MODEL.
THE WAY THE NEEDS OF THAT ARE, THE NEEDS WE CAN ACCOMMODATE
WILL WORK FOR US.
IT IS OUTSOURCING AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO WORK
THROUGH WITH OUR LOCAL COMMUNITY AND OUR TOW TRUCK COMPANIES
WITH A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY.
09:25:42AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE, CHIEF, IS, AGAIN,
THE DEAL.
HOW SMALL IS THIS AREA WE HAVE NOW ON 34th STREET.
I DON'T HAVE THOSE SPECS IN FRONT OF ME.
IT IS SMALLER, BUT TO GIVE YOU THE PERCENTAGE, I DON'T HAVE
THAT IN FRONT OF ME.
09:26:00AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I AM HOPING THAT WE WILL COME BACK WITH A
WORKSHOP ONCE YOU MEET WITH THE COMMUNITY.
I WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I AM NOT GOING BE A SUPPORTER IF
WE CUT OUT OUR SMALL BUSINESSES.
THOSE GUYS WORK A LOT.
THEY ARE PROVIDING FOR FAMILIES.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER YOU ARE GOING TO DO, THEY HAVE
TO BE FIT IN THE EQUATION AND HAVE AN EQUAL BALANCE.
09:26:19AM >> I AGREE WITH YOU AND ON THE SAME PAGE AND AS SOON AS WE
HEARD THE FEEDBACK.
09:26:26AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT, CHIEF.
AND BEING A LEADER ON THAT.
THANK YOU.
09:26:30AM >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME, GENTLEMEN?
09:26:35AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:26:36AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL, CITY STAFF, LISTENING IN.
NICK STOCCO, PRESIDENT OF LOCAL FIRE FIGHTERS.
HERE TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 9.
I UNDERSTAND IT WAS REQUESTED TO BE MADE FOR A CONTINUANCE.
I APPRECIATE THE TIME ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC
COMMENT.
I WILL KEEP IT BRIEF BUT TO GIVE HISTORY ON THIS MOTION.
JANUARY 2020, THIS MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCILMAN VIERA AND
PUSHED BY THE CITY COUNCIL IN JANUARY OF 2020.
AUGUST OF 2020, THE IAFF, THE UNION PRODUCED 135-PAGE
DOCUMENT LISTING EVERYTHING THAT WAS NEEDED.
COLORED GRAPHS, NUMBERS, PERCENTAGES, EVERYTHING BY
PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANTS WHAT THE PUBLIC SAFETY DEFICITS
WITH FIRE RESCUE.
SINCE THEN WE HAVE NOT SEEN MUCH OF A PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER
PLAN.
MARCH 2021, A WORKSHOP WHERE CONSULTANTS WILL BE ADVISED TO
BE HIRED.
I APPRECIATE COUNCILMAN VIERA TO HIRE CONSULTANTS AND MARCH
IT WAS SAID TAKE SIX MONTHS TO HIRE CONSULTANTS THAT WOULD
HAVE TAKEN SEPTEMBER, 2021.
IF A REPORT WAS DONE, SHOW IT.
SHOW US SOMETHING.
IF A REPORT IS NOT DONE, SHOW US WHY IT HAVEN'T BEEN DONE.
IN 2023, IN JANUARY IT WAS ASKED MORE TIME TO WAS NEEDED.
I UNDERSTAND ELECTIONS ARE RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER BUT GIVE
THE FIRE FIGHTERS SOME TYPE OF INFORMATION SOMETHING WE CAN
TAKE ON AND WORK ON AND GO I HAVE BACK TO THE MEMBERS AND
SEE IF WE CAN GET BETTER AND WORK TOGETHER.
I ASK YOU ALL TO -- I UNDERSTAND BEING KEPT ON THE AGENDA,
BUT I ASK YOU ALL TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AND PROVIDE US WITH
SOME KIND OF ANSWERS THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR.
THE FIRE FIGHTERS ARE HELD TO SOME KIND OF TIME FRAMES AND
WE DON'T GET ANY EXTENSIONS AS YOU ALTHOUGH.
WHEN EXTENSIONS ARE ASKED FOR, WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE GRANTED.
WE HAVEN'T GRANTED THEM IN THE PAST.
I WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS AND I CAN STATE THAT I
KNOW WE ARE ON THE SCHEDULE FOR TWO MORE AGENDA ITEMS AND I
PLAN ON BEING HERE UNTIL THE END.
IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING, LET ME KNOW.
09:28:43AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:28:43AM >> COUNCIL, HOW ARE YOU DOING.
MARK SCAGGS.
SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF SPARKS TOWING.
I HAVE BEEN IN THE TOWING BUSINESS FOR 40 YEARS.
JUST A HORRIBLE IDEA TO, ONE, BID.
IT SHUTS DOWN SO MANY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE JUST THE WORKERS,
THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE INVESTED THEIR LIFE IN IT, IN -- JUST
NOT A GOOD FIT FOR COMPANY.
THEY DO AN OUTSTANDING JOB KEEPING UP WITH THE CARS.
I KNOW TAMPA IS EXPLODING AT THE SEAMS OR BUSTING AT THE
SEAMS.
LIKE YOU SAY MORE COMMUNICATION WITH THE GUYS.
THEY CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
MY SON BRIAN OWNS STARKS TOWING WILL BE HAPPY TO BE
THE LIAISON TO SPEAK TO YOU ALL AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT IS
GOING ON BECAUSE SOME OF THE STUFF COMES OUT OF THE BLUE SKY
AND WE DON'T KNOW.
APPRECIATE YOU ALL CANCELLING IT NOW AND HOPEFULLY IN THE
FUTURE YOU WILL.
THANK YOU FOR THE TIME.
09:29:46AM >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
I AM BRIAN STARKS.
I'M HERE OBVIOUSLY FOR THE OTHER TOWERS THAT ARE HERE THE
BID THAT IS OPEN.
I AM CLOSED THAT IT IS CLOSED RIGHT NOW -- GLAD THAT IT IS
CLOSED RIGHT NOW AND DEVASTATING TO THE SMALL BUSINESSES AND
UNAMERICAN TO HAVE ONE COMPANY HANDLE A WHOLE CITY THANK YOU
FOR WORKING ON IT AND KEEPING IT CLOSED AND HOPEFULLY KEEP
IN BID CLOSED AND NOT ALLOW AN MONOPOLY.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I CAN GLADLY ANSWER THEM BUT I
THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF SOLUTION.
09:30:30AM >> GOOD MORNING, STEVE ALLEN, PRESIDENT OF THE HILLSBOROUGH
COUNTY TOWING ASSOCIATION.
I HAVE BEEN ON ROTATION FOR 49 YEARS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
YESTERDAY MICHELLE HAS BEEN CALLING FROM THE PURCHASING
DEPARTMENT THAT THE MEETING FROM MARCH 8 AND 29 HAVE BOTH
BEEN CANCELLED.
THEY ARE GOING TO CONTACT US IN THE FUTURE WHEN WE CAN GET
WITH THEM AND RESOLVE SOME OF THE PROBLEMS.
THE MAIN THING WANTING TO GIVE THE POLICE INBOUND LOT TO THE
BIDDER.
WE HAVE 34 LOCATIONS AND EACH LOCATION HAS
ANYWHERE FROM SIX TO 12 PEOPLE AT A MINIMUM.
NOT TALKING A COUPLE OF DOZEN BUT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WHO CAN
LOSE THEIR JOB.
ROTATION IS A LARGE PART OF OUR INCOME.
AND THE WAY THINGS HAVE WENT WITH AUTOMOBILES THE LAST FEW
YEARS WITH THE NEW WARRANTIES THAT THE NEW CARS HAVE.
WE DON'T HAVE THE PRIVATE TOWING THAT WE USED TO HAVE.
WE HAVE PULLED BACK TO WHERE ROTATION MEANS A LOT TO US AND
TO GIVE IT TO ONE COMPANY WILL BE DEVASTATING FOR A LOT, A
LOT OF COMPANIES.
SOUTH TAMPA, WE HAVE NO MALLS, WE HAVE NO DEALERSHIPS.
WE HAVE NOTHING SO WE DEPEND ON OUR ROTATION.
SECTIONS OF TAMPA THAT DON'T HAVE THAT THAT DON'T HAVE THE
HUSTLE AND BUSTLE THAT SOME OF THE ZONES GET.
JUST TO GIVE YOU ONE LITTLE THING ON THE BID.
THEY WERE REQUIRING A BUILDING TO HOLD 50 AUTOMOBILES AND
200 OUTSIDE LIKE A TARGET AND K-MART BUILDING AND I DON'T
BELIEVE NONE OF US CAN AFFORD THAT.
ONE OF MY COHORT PARTNERS TOLD ME HE DID LOCATE A BUILDING,
BUT THEY WANT $15,000 A MONTH RENT ON IT.
SO TO TAKE OVER AND DO THE THINGS ON THAT BID CONTRACT WAS
JUST ABSURD.
WE ARE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND WORK WITH THEM AND MICHELLE
FROM PURCHASING DEPARTMENT SAID THAT AFTER THE END OF MARCH
THEY WILL GET WITH US AND WE WILL HAVE A MEETING WITH THEM
AND TRY TO RESOLVE THIS, BUT BASICALLY THEY ARE WANTING TO
MOVE THE IMPOUND LOT INTO THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
WITH THE TYPE OF VEHICLES THAT THEY HOLD AND EVERYTHING, IT
WILL BE AWFULLY HARD TO MAINTAIN -- OKAY.
WELL THANK YOU.
09:33:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS.
09:33:08AM >> OKAY, 30 SECONDS.
OKAY.
YOU KNOW TO GIVE IT TO ONE COMPANY, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE GOING
TO HAVE ABOUT 12 VEHICLES THAT ARE REQUIRED AND MORE THAT BE
LIKELY THEY HAVE A COMPANY ALREADY THAT SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE
IN THE TOWING BUSINESS FOR FIVE YEARS IN FLORIDA.
SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS GOING TO SUFFER THE WHOLE ROTATION WILL
HURT.
THANK YOU.
09:33:36AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:33:37AM >> MENTESNOT, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
I WOULD LIKE TO THINK OF RETROSPECT OF THE POLICE REVIEW
BOARD AND APPOINTMENT OF THE ATTORNEY.
THE WHITE KING OF ENGLAND AND SLAVE MASTERS WROTE THE UNITED
STATES US CONSTITUTION.
HOW DO YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT PROTECT DEMOCRACY AND
CAPITALISM, BUT THE GOVERNMENT THAT PROTECTS CAPITALISM HAVE
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS A PROBLEM.
NOT POLICE VIOLENCE AND POLICE REVIEW BOARDS.
HOW YOU LIVE IN A SYSTEM WITH A CONSTITUTION THAT SAY
AFRICANS ARE THREE FIFTH OF A HUMAN BEING.
EXACTLY KEEPS BLACK PEOPLE BEGGING.
CONFUSED AND BEGGING FROM THE DAY WE ARE BORN AND DAY WE
DIE.
BEGGING FOR FREEDOMS AND NATURAL RIGHTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE INALIENABLE RIGHTS.
BEGGING FOR THE RIGHT TO BEG.
BUNCH OF BAFOONS.
WHITE PEOPLE KNOW BETTER.
THEY WILL NEVER ACCEPT THAT STANDARD FOR THEMSELVES.
THEIR EFFORTS OF AFRICAN PEOPLE MAKING PROGRESS.
THE WHITE PEOPLE KNOW BY THE TIME WE CATCH ON TO THEIR
SCHEMES AND SCAMS, THREE OR FOUR GENERATIONS WILL HAVE PASSED
BY.
SNAKE OIL REMEDY AND PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AND PHARMACEUTICAL
COMPANIES THAT WILL CURE THE PROBLEM ONLY TO FIND OUT 50
YEARS LATER THE SNAKE OIL AND PHARMACEUTICALS WAS THE
PROBLEMS AND THE MANUFACTURERS KNEW IT ALL ALONG.
WE DO NOT NEED ANY POLICE REVIEW BOARD.
WE NEED A CLEAR SHOT AT THE POLICE AND ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT
AGENCY WITH THE REMOVAL OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.
WE NEED FOR THE POLICE AND ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE TO
BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO LAWSUITS TO LIVE UNDER THE SAME LAW THAT
EVERYONE ELSE LIVES UNDER.
NOT THE KING'S LAW OR KING'S STANDARDS.
REGULAR FOLKS STANDARDS.
DO YOU THINK THAT THESE JUDGES LOCKED UP AFRICANS FOR 30,
40, 50 YEARS, LIFETIME SENTENCES FOR VICTIMLESS CRIMES.
NONE ARE GETTING AWAY SUCCESSFULLY IF THEY ARE SUED.
CAPITALISM IS GREAT UNTIL THE POOR AND WORKING-CLASS PEOPLE
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
WE ARE 26% OF THE POPULATION AND DEMAND 26% OF THE CITY
BUDGET.
WE HAVE A RIGHT TO REPARATIONS AND DEMAND THE REPARATIONS TO
STOP ALL THAT BEGGING.
WE NEED TO START HOLDING THE CITY OF TAMPA ACCOUNTABLE AND
ALL ELECTED AND BUSINESS LEADERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE
CONDITION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN THE CITY.
WHEN WHITE PEOPLE BEG, THEY KNOW WHAT TO BEG FOR, SUCH IN
THE CASE OF UKRAINE WITH INSTALLED PUPPET GOVERNMENT AND A
COMEDIAN AS A PRESIDENT.
AND HE IS OUT BEGGING FOR WHAT, OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE
WEAPONS.
HE ISN'T BEGGING FOR SPEED BUMPS AND ROUNDABOUTS AND PARKS
AND RECREATION.
BEGGING FOR WEAPONS TO DEFEND HIS PEOPLE SO THEY HAVE A
RIGHT FOR SELF-DETERMINATION.
THAT IS WHAT THE WHITE PEOPLE HERE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND.
A DUTY AND A RESPONSIBILITY TO SEE THAT AFRICAN PEOPLE RISE.
NOT TO KEEP US BEGGING AND BEGGING FOR DUMB STUFF.
THOSE DAYS HAVE TO COME TO AN END.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
09:36:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:36:35AM >> GOOD MORNING, KEELA McCASKILL.
I DON'T HAVE AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA.
I WANTED TO COME THIS MORNING TO THANK CHIEF BENNETT -- HE
IS NOT HERE -- BUT TO THANK HIM.
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR COMING OUT TO
SOME OF THE MEETINGS WE HELD THIS MONTH MAINLY IN NEBRASKA.
I KNOW THEY ARE LIMITED IN STAFF WHEN IT COMES TO THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT.
LIMITED IN STAFF WHEN IT COMES TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
BUT THEY TOOK THE TIME TO COME AND ADDRESS THE CONCERNS WITH
THE HOMELESSNESS SITUATION ON NEBRASKA.
SENT THEIR TEAMS OUT AMONG THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
WE DEFINITELY NEED TO GET THEM SOME HELP BECAUSE THE ISSUE
HAS GROWN.
ADDRESS THE NEED AND EMBRACE THE COMMUNITY HOW TO MOVE IT
FORWARD COLLECTIVELY.
I AM COMING THOUGH IN ADDITION TO THAT WANTED TO ADDRESS.
NOT TOO LONG AGO, CAME ALONG WITH SOME COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND
THE CITY WAS -- OVER THE RAISE I THAT THEY WERE OFFER TO
OTHER STAFF MEMBERS.
WE DISCUSSED AMONG OURSELVES THAT OUR CITY COUNCILMEMBERS, A
VERY ACTIVE GROUP, THAT INCLUDED COUNCILMAN DINGFELDER.
A VERY ACTIVE GROUP OF CITY COUNCILMEMBERS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE,
IN A PART-TIME JOB IS NOT PAID A SALARY THE SAME OF OTHER
CITIES THAT HAVE GROWN TO THE CITY OF TAMPA.
WE CAME AS CONCERNED CITIZENS SAYING, HEY, WE WANT OUR
ACTIVE GROUP OF CITY COUNCILMEMBERS TO HAVE A SALARY THAT IS
COMPARABLE TO OTHER AREAS SIMILAR.
NOT A RAISE.
JUST GET PAID FOR THE JOB THEY ARE DOING.
IT IS NOT A PART-TIME JOB IF YOU ARE DOING IT RIGHT.
IF YOU WERE DOING IT RIGHT, NOT A PART-TIME JOB.
REQUIRES YOU TO READ, COMPREHEND, GET HERE, HEAR 12, 14-HOUR
DAYS OF HEARING OUR CONCERNS.
WE FELT THAT THE SALARY YOU ARE ON NOW ACCORDING TO HOUSING
AND -- YOU QUALIFY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
YOU QUALIFY FOR ASSISTANCE.
WE WANT YOU TO HAVE A SALARY THAT ACTUALLY IS COMPARABLE TO
OTHER AREAS THAT ARE PAID THAT.
WHAT IS MORE BAFFLING.
I AM NEW TO THE WHOLE POLITICAL SCENE.
MADE IT TO THE BUDGET.
I TRY TO FOLLOW.
WE MADE THE RECOMMENDATION.
MADE IT TO THE MAYOR'S BUDGET, BUT YET OUR RECOMMENDATION IS
NOW A POLITICAL -- IT IS USED AS A BAT TO YOU ALL
POLITICALLY.
WE MADE THE REQUEST AND MADE IT TO THE MAYOR'S BUDGET AND
BEATING SOME OF YOU UP FOR YOUR VOTE TO APPROVE MAYOR ON THE
BUDGET -- I FEEL LIKE IT WAS A SET-UP AND THE COMMUNITY MADE
A RECOMMENDATION AND MADE IT TO THE BUDGET WHICH SEEMED LIKE
IT WAS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND USED AS A BAT.
I AM SORRY YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT.
I STAND BEHIND A DECISION THAT YOU NEED A RAISE.
NEEDS TO GO WHAT IS COMPARABLE IN OTHER MAJOR CITIES.
I WANTED TO SAY THAT PUBLICLY BECAUSE OUR ASK PUBLICLY TO
GIVE YOU THE RAISE -- THE INCREASE.
09:39:23AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN.
09:39:24AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
09:39:26AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I APPRECIATE THE YOUNG LADY COMING FORTH
AND SAYING THAT.
IT HAS BECOME POLITICAL.
AND I AM GLAD THAT THE CITIZENS AREN'T FOOLS.
I AM GLAD THAT THE CITIZENS SEE THE FOOLERY THAT GOES ON.
WE NEVER ASKED FOR A RAISE.
BUT WE KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT PAID LIKE OTHER CITIES ARE PAID
IN THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WE DO -- SOME OF US DO ON A DAILY
BASIS DOESN'T CONSTITUTE A PART-TIME JOB.
THE CHARTER DOESN'T SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT A PART-TIME JOB.
SAY AS JOB.
IT HAS BECOME AN ATTACK ON SOME COUNCILMEMBERS AND AGAIN I
THANK THE COMMUNITY FOR UNDERSTANDING THE FOOLERY.
I BELIEVE WE WERE BAMBOOZLED INTO THAT AND I STAND BY WHAT I
ORIGINALLY VOTED FOR TO APPROVE THAT.
AND I HOPE GOING FORWARD IN A FEW MONTHS TO OR SO, WE CAN
APPROVE THAT AND DO WHAT THE CITIZENS ASK US TO DO.
09:40:19AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
NATHAN HAGAN IN N.I.M.B.Y. TAMPA.
RENTS IN TAMPA RISEN MORE THAN 50%.
UNIQUELY BAD IN THE COUNTRY WHERE DOUBLE-DIGIT IN
COMMONPLACE.
TAMPA IS WORST IN THIS.
THE FASTEST GROWING POPULATION IN THE CITY IN TAMPA IS OVER
65.
THE AVERAGE RENTER SPENDS BETWEEN 50% TO 75% OF INCOME ON
HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION.
WE ARE IN A CRISIS.
THIS SITTING CITY COUNCIL CAN'T BE BLAMED FOR CAUSING IT,
BUT WE ONLY HAVE ONE CITY COUNCIL TODAY.
EACH OF YOU LEAD IT.
NO ESCAPING THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS
THIS.
YET IN TWO YEARS, I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE THIS
COUNCIL HAS ENACTED NOT A SEEMINGLY MEANINGFUL CHANGE TO
HELP WITH THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS.
LOBBYING YOU ALL, NO CHANCE FOR A CHANGE OF APPROACH TO
HOUSING THAT WE WILL BUILD THE TENS AND THOUSANDS HOMES TO
HOUSE OUR OLD NEIGHBORS AND IN YOU.
RENT CONTROL WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING.
USED TO BE VOTED ON IN DECEMBER AND THIS COUNCIL FAILED TO
MANGE IT HAPPEN.
OUR COMMUNITY LAND TRUST HAVE GONE NOWHERE.
TENANT BILLS OF RIGHTS IS ESSENTIAL, GRATEFUL WE PASSED BUT
A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
RENTAL ASSISTANCE AND NO ONE WILL SUGGEST THAT WE WILL
CHANGE OUR TRAJECTORY.
I SAY ALL THIS BECAUSE I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THERE IS A
MISUNDERSTANDING.
WEST RIVER IS AN IMPORTANT PROJECT BUT JUST A FEW HUNDRED
UNITS.
MEANWHILE, IT NOT DARE TO COUNT OUT MANY HOMES THAT UNDO
THIS GOOD WORK.
THE MAYOR'S 10,000 NUMBER IS NOT ENOUGH.
TAMPA'S POPULATION GROWN BY 80,000 AND THE COUNTY BY
500,000.
NEVER MIND PASCO.
TO MEET OUR POTENTIAL, BE AWARE THAT THE NEXT 500,000 PEOPLE
CAN LIVE WITHOUT DISPLACING THE PEOPLE HERE TODAY.
THIS IS BECAUSE OF OUR COMP PLAN TO BE DISCUSSED THIS
MORNING.
CARE ABOUT TRANSPORTATION, PRESERVING TO OUR NATURAL SPACE,
AND BUILDING A ROBUST COMPETITIVE ECONOMY.
YOU SHOULD SEE THAT AND UNDERSTAND HOW WE HAVE -- WE HAVE
FAILED TO PLAN AND THEREFORE PLANNED TO FAIL.
THIS IS WHY ALL FOR TRANSPORTATION FAILED.
THE MOST EXPENSIVE AREA IN THE COUNTRY ON TRANSPORTATION.
WAGE AND PRODUCTIVITY IS LOW.
AND FDOT PRIORITIZES THE SUBURBS.
WHY OUR PLANET IS BURNING.
WHY PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY FROM TRAFFIC VIOLENCE IN OUR CITY.
THIS IS WHY WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO FUND PUBLIC
SAFETY.
THIS YEAR, WHEN YOU LISTEN TO CITY STAFF DISCUSS OUR
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UNDERSTAND THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE.
IF NOT, YOU ARE ABANDONING YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND
GUARANTEEING THAT TAMPA IS A WEALTHY SUBURB AND ST.
PETE LEADS.
TAMPA HAS ROOM FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.
YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY YES, THANK YOU.
09:43:13AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. HAGAN.
THERE IS AN ACRONYM THAT YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH.
IF WE HAD MORE NEIGHBORHOODS IN THIS TOWN REFERRING
TO YIMBY, WE MIGHT BE BETTER OFF.
09:43:29AM >> THANK YOU.
09:43:31AM >> HI.
I LIVE IN ARMORY GARDENS WHICH LIVE IN WEST TAMPA.
I HAVE SEEN FIRSTHAND THE IMPACT OF HOUSING CRISIS ON OUR
COMMUNITY.
MANY FAMILIES AND YOUNG PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING TO AFFORD
HOUSING.
LIKE NATHAN WAS SAYING, WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION TO ADDRESS
THIS CRISIS.
I LIVE IN A HISTORICALLY WORKING-CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD.
ONLY LIVED THERE THREE YEARS.
I COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE INTO MY NEIGHBORHOOD TODAY.
WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED IN THIS
NEIGHBORHOOD FOR GENERATIONS AND THEY ARE HAVING TO MOVE OUT
BECAUSE OF THE INCREASES IN HOUSING COSTS.
THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T CONTROL, LIKE THE INCREASE IN
HOMEOWNER INSURANCE.
WE ARE SEEING CURRENT RESIDENTS HAVE TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY
CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE THERE, WHICH IS -- AND WE ARE
SEEING FAMILY HOMES APPROACH $1 MILLION IN JUST A VERY SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME.
THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
YOU LISTEN TO STAFF PRESENT ON OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN NOT
JUST TODAY BUT EVERY TIME IT COMES UP, CONSIDER THE ROLE IT
PLAYS IN CAUSING NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE MINE, MULTIFAMILY
HOUSING IS LARGELY BANNED TO BE SO ATTAINABLE.
WE NEED TO BUILD MORE HOMES AND MAKE THEM AFFORDABLE FOR
EVERYONE.
NOT JUST IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD BURR OAKWOOD PARK AND SOUTH ALL
THE WAY TO GANDY.
MEANS SMALLERS HOMES AND MORE DENSE DEVELOPMENTS AND RULES
THAT ENCOURAGE IT.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY BE CONCERNED OF THE IMPACT
OF NEW DEVELOPMENT ON OUR NEIGHBORHOOD; HOWEVER, I BELIEVE
THAT RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT CAN BE DONE IN A WAY THAT
BENEFITS EVERYONE.
WE NEED GOOD DESIGN STANDARDS, NOT RULES THAT MAKE
MULTIFAMILY HOUSING IMPOSSIBLE IT BUILD ALL TOGETHER.
AND I AM CURRENTLY SURROUNDED BY HOMES THAT HAVE BECOME
AIRBNBS BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED TO BUILD MULTIFAMILY HOUSING
THERE.
THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO AND THE HOMES JUST SIT AND THEY
BECOME FULL-TIME AIRBNBS.
I URGE YOU TO CONSIDER UPDATING TO ARE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
WITH PRO HOUSING POLICIES.
IT IS TIME TO TAKE ACTION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSING CRISIS AND
ENSURE THAT EVERYONE -- EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO SAFE,
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THANK YOU.
09:45:45AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:45:46AM >> GOOD MORNING, BOBBY CREIGHTON.
I LIVE IN YBOR HEIGHTS.
I WANTED TO PROVIDE A DEFINITION FOR ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE
WHO CAN'T FAMILIAR.
EXCLUSIONARY ZONING.
PLACES RESTRICTIONS ON THE TYPES OF HOMES TO BE BUILT IN
PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOODS.
MINIMUM LOT SIZE REQUIREMENTS, MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE
REQUIREMENTS AND PROHIBITION ON MULTIFAMILY HOMES, LIMITS ON
THE HEIGHTS OF BUILDING AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NOW.
TODAY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT
FUTURE LAND USE RECOMMENDATIONS.
GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT WE UNSHACKLE OUR CITY FROM THESE
RESTRICTIONS TO STAND A CHANCE OFFING SUCCESSFUL IN THE
FUTURE.
THEY ARE RIGHT.
REDRAW THE MAP TO ALLOW MISSING HOUSING IN OUR CITY AND
OVERHAUL OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO GIVE THE RESIDENTS A
CHANCE.
EXCLUSIONARY ZONING NOT ONLY MEANS EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN
TIMES OF HOUSING IN A NEIGHBORHOOD BUT ALSO PARTIALLY AN
EXCLUSION OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD'S ABILITY TO SUPPORT ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AND COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES THAT ARE WITHIN
WALKING DISTANCE FROM WHERE THEY LIVE.
I LIVE IN YBOR HEIGHTS.
NEBRASKA AVENUE RUNS THROUGH MY NEIGHBORHOOD FROM 26th
AVENUE TO MLK.
I HAD CONVERSATION OF THE PLANNING STAFF ABOUT NEBRASKA
,AND I LEARNED THAT BECAUSE THE RESIDENTIAL
NEIGHBORHOODS SURROUNDING IT DON'T HAVE THE DENSITY TO
SUPPORT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND LOTS ON NEBRASKA ARE TOO
SMALL TO SUPPORT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
I'M FOR DEVELOPMENT TO BE THERE.
EVEN MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.
THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.
OUR POLICIES ARE STIFLING GROWTH AND STRAINING LICK OUR
NEIGHBORHOODS.
LIKE MINE.
AND WE WANT TO REALIZE A BETTER VISION FOR OUR FUTURE.
I WANT TO LIVE IN A WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOOD.
FOR THAT TO BE POSSIBLE, THAT MEANS THERE NEEDS TO BE PLACE
IN MY COMMUNITY THAT I CAN SAFELY AND COMFORTABLY WALK TO.
I HAVE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO SUPPORT
BUSINESSES IN WALKING DISTANCE AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT ON
NEBRASKA AVENUE.
LET'S FIX THAT.
MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS JUST ONE OF MANY IN EAST TAMPA.
WE CAN OFFER DEVELOPERS A GREATER VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES
TO BEST MAXIMIZE THE HOUSING IN EAST TAMPA.
MORE PEOPLE AND MORE DOLLARS TO SUPPORT THE COMMERCIAL
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WANT SO BADLY TO DO.
AND MANY GRANTS, THE TENANT READY PROGRAM, BUSINESS MICRO
GRANT, THE BUSINESS FOOD SERVICES GRANT, UPSTAIRS
RESIDENTIAL CON VERSION AND BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT GRANTS AND
THEY ARE ALL OUT RIGHT NOW.
WHAT ARE WE WAIT FOR?
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT AND BREAK THE CYCLE IN EAST TAMPA.
PEOPLE HAVE A HISTORY OF COMING TOGETHER IN TAMPA IN VERY
UNIQUE WAYS AND WE HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE SURE THAT IS PART OF
OUR FUTURE.
IF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE KNOWS WE CAN GO INTO THE IS UP
BUSHES FOR EVER.
PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THING AND CONSIDER SUPPORTING THE
PLANNING COMMISSION'S POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR MISSING
MIDDLE HOUSING SO OUR CITY CAN CONTINUE TO THRIVE.
THANK YOU.
09:48:44AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:48:45AM >> GOOD MORNING, MITA MARTINEZ, ALSO KNOWN
AT MIMI, CURRENT PRESIDENT OF YBOR HEIGHTS AND COORDINATOR
FOR YBOR HEIGHTS.
I'M HERE TO MENTION HOW IMPORTANT FOR OUR COMP PLAN TO AND
UPDATES SUPPORTING HOUSING AND HOUSING DENSITY.
SPECIFICALLY FOR YBOR HEIGHTS, A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO
DEVELOP NEBRASKA CORRIDOR TO PROVIDE MORE HOUSING AND ALSO
TO ATTRACT WHOLESOME BUSINESSES.
CURRENTLY THE NEBRASKA, NO SECRET, INFAMOUS FOR HOMELESSNESS
AND PROSTITUTES.
THEY ARE EASY TARGETS BUT THE CONSEQUENCE WHAT HAS BEEN
GOING ON WITH THE NEBRASKA.
WE HAVE TWO SEX TRADE MOTELS.
NO SECRET.
EVERYBODY KNOWS THEY ARE THERE.
WE HAVE LARGE AMOUNT OF BLIGHTED BUILDINGS ALONG NEBRASKA
CORRIDOR AND VACANT LOTS THAT SERVE THE CURRENT RESIDENTS NO
USE WHATSOEVER, NO PURPOSE.
AT THE SAME TIME, WE ARE TRYING TO PROVIDE EXTRA HOUSING TO
BRING PEOPLE IN.
SO WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
BECAUSE IF WE ARE GOING TO BRING IN MORE RESIDENTS AT THE
SAME TIME WE HAVE TO ECONOMICALLY DEVELOP NEBRASKA CORRIDOR
TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO THOSE RESIDENTS.
CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, THE HOMEOWNERS IN THAT A NEIGHBORHOOD
CAN'T GO DOWN NEBRASKA CORRIDOR FOR A CUP OF COFFEE, A SLICE
OF PIZZA OR ICE CREAM HOME.
WALGREEN'S LET'S OUR AREA SO NO PHARMACY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD
RIGHT NOW.
SO I JUST THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT CITY COUNCIL
UNDERSTANDS THAT DO SUPPORT INCREASE IN HOUSING AND WE DO
NEED TO KEEP PEOPLE HERE AND NOT DISPLACE THEM, BUT WE HAVE
TO DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.
IF WE ARE GOING TO KEEP BRINGING IN RESIDENCE, WE NEED TO
PROVIDE A QUALITY OF LIFE TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND
NEBRASKA CORRIDOR AS A MAIN STREET FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
PEOPLE CAN WALK AND BIKE DOWN THERE.
RIGHT NOW IF WE GET RESIDENT TOP HEAVY AND NO BUSINESSES TO
SUPPORT THOSE RESIDENTS KIND OF LIKE LOPSIDED.
I ASK CITY COUNCIL TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
SMALLER NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE YBOR HEIGHTS DON'T GET THAT MUCH
ATTENTION.
HOMEOWNERS THAT LIVE OFF OF THE NEBRASKA CORRIDOR.
THEY WANT TO BE IN THIS AREA.
NOT A TRUE TESTAMENT PEOPLE STAYING IN THE AREA.
WE STILL LIVE THERE.
WE KNOW WE HAVE TO DRIVE TO OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS AND WE
CHOOSE TO BE THERE.
WE ARE FIGHTING HARD AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO UPLIFT THE
NEBRASKA CORRIDOR AND COMP PLAN AND LAND USE ZONING IS ONE
TOOLS TO BRING US OUT.
THANK YOU.
09:51:29AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
09:51:30AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY BROUGHT SOMETHING TO MY
ATTENTION.
IF YOU DON'T MIND, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE CHIEF -- I WOULD
LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION IN REFERENCE TO THE TOW SITUATION THAT
ANY RFP GOES OUT, THIS COUNCIL IS IN A WORKSHOP FOR
INFORMATION BROUGHT BACK BEFORE ANYTHING MOVING FORWARD WITH
THE TOW COMPANY.
09:51:49AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
09:51:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
09:51:57AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
MAY I?
09:52:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
09:52:02AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO
MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO HAVE SOME SOME FINANCIAL BACKGROUND
WHY THIS IS A GOOD IDEA TO PRIVATIZE INSTEAD OF KEEPING THIS
IN HOUSE.
I WOULD LIKE NUMBERS ATTACHED TO THIS REPORT.
09:52:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.
09:52:27AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, DO YOU WANT TO SEE -- THE
CHIEF IS HERE.
DO YOU WANT TO SEE HOW MUCH TIME HE NEEDS FOR IF TO COME
BACK.
09:52:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IF HE IS THERE, WE CAN ASK HIM.
09:52:39AM >> I WILL NEED SOME TIME TO HAVE THAT LISTENING SESSION AND
GET THE FEEDBACK AND PREPARE AFTER THAT.
09:52:44AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS.
09:52:46AM >> TWO MONTHS.
06 TO 90 DAYS.
09:52:51AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
60 DAYS.
09:52:53AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YOU WANT THAT AS A STAFF REPORT.
09:52:57AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NEED TO BE A WORKSHOP.
09:52:59AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
APRIL 27 IS THE WORKSHOP.
09:53:03AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ALL RIGHT.
MADAM CLERK, IS THAT GOOD, APRIL 27?
09:53:08AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU ACCEPT THE AMENDMENT?
.COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
09:53:13AM >>BILL CARLSON:
CHIEF BERCAW, CAN I ASK YOU A QUICK
QUESTION.
FIRST, I SHOULD REMIND THE PUBLIC AGAIN, NOT SOMETHING HANDED
BY CITY COUNCIL.
PUBLIC COMMENT IS A CHANCE FOR THE PUBLIC TO GIVE CITY
COUNCIL FEEDBACK ON OTHER THINGS HAPPENING IN THE
ADMINISTRATION AND SOMETIMES WE CAN INTERVENE AND SOMETIMES
WE CAN'T.
CHIEF BERCAW, HOW IS A RFP HANDLED.
YOU WENT THROUGH THIS OR CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION.
09:53:45AM >> I WILL HAVE MR. MORRIS COME UP AND SPEAK ON THAT.
09:53:55AM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
MORRIS MASSEY, LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
THE WAY IT WORKS THE REQUESTING DEPARTMENT IF THEY ARE IN
NEED OF SERVICES, TO WORK THROUGH PURCHASING OR
CONTRACT ADMIN TO CREATE AN RFP AND GOES OUT ON THE STREET
AND PEOPLE BID AND SUBMIT PROPOSALS IN RESPONSE TO THAT
REQUEST.
EVALUATED INTERNALLY AND IF AN AWARD DECISION IS MADE BY THE
ADMINISTRATION, THAT CONTRACT COMES TO COUNCIL.
SOME THAT IS HOW THE PROCESS WORKS.
09:54:27AM >>THE POINT IS, IT IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
AND I ASSUME THIS IS HANDLED IN CONTRACTED A IN LOGISTICS
AND ASSET MANAGEMENT.
WE HEARD PUBLIC COMMENT IN THE COMMUNITY.
A LOT OF COMPLAINTS OF CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION.
I ASKED PRIVATELY FOR THE CHIEF OF STAFF TO LOOK INTO THAT,
AND HOPE THEY WILL TAKE A BROAD PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.
THIS ON THE SERVICE SEEMS TO BE VERY ANTI-COMPETITIVE AND
SEEMS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS DONE IN
THE PAST.
I HOPE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WILL LOOK AT THIS AND FIX IT.
09:54:54AM >> UNDERSTOOD.
OBVIOUSLY THE PROPOSAL HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
NOTHING PENDING AT THIS TIME.
JUST TO CLARIFY THAT FOR THE RECORD.
09:55:02AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. MASSEY, IN 2019, I TALKED OF
THESE RFPs.
I KNOW THAT OTHER CITIES -- BEFORE ANY RFP GOING GOES OUT,
IT GOES TO THE COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE -- KIND OF OVERVIEW AND
LOOK WHAT IS THERE.
SOME TYPE OF POLICY OR SOMETHING RESTRICTING THIS COUNCIL TO
GET THOSE RFPs BEFORE THIS GOES UP.
09:55:24AM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
NOT HOW OUR GOVERNMENT AND THE SYSTEM WORKS
HERE.
THE EXCEPTION IS IF THE RFP IS UTILIZING CRA DOLLARS, WE ARE
OUR AGREEMENT -- BECAUSE CRA DOLLARS -- YOU ARE SITTING AS
THE CRA -- BEFORE THE RFPs ARE PUT ON THE STREET.
IF CRA DOLLARS ARE ALLOWED, YOU HAVE A WAY TO LOOK.
09:55:50AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
IS THIS IN OUR CONSTITUTION THIS COUNCIL TO
DO THAT?
09:55:54AM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
THE WAY THE CHARTER WORKS, THE MAYOR IS IN
CHARGE OF ALL THE ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTIONS.
SHE CAN'T NOT ENTER -- THE MAYOR CANNOT ENTER INTO AN
AGREEMENT WITHOUT YOUR APPROVAL AND THIS COMES TO YOU ALL.
THE RFP, ALL OF THAT IS DONE ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE SIDE OF
THE HOUSE IF THERE IS A CONTRACT AND IT COMES BEFORE YOU ALL
AND YOU HEAR WHETHER YOU -- THE CONCERNS FROM PEOPLE.
SO THERE IS NOTHING REALLY FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER AT THIS
JUNCTURE.
09:56:20AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, I SEE YOU LOOKING THIS WAY.
SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO SAY ON THAT, SIR?
09:56:25AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
A QUESTION HOW IT CAN BE STRUCTURED
COUNCIL.
WHAT I AM HEARING FROM COUNCIL IS YOU WISH TO KNOW -- RFPs
ARE GENERALLY AVAILABLE ON LINE.
09:56:36AM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
CORRECT.
WHEN THE CITY PUTS OUT A RFP, THE PLATFORM'S NAME HAS
CHANGED BUT USED TO BE CALLED DEMAND STAR.
ALL CITY RFP AND BIDS APPEAR ON DEMAND STAR AND HOW IT IS
PUBLICLY NOTICED FOR EVERYONE THAT THERE IS A PROPOSAL THAT
THE CITY WANTS -- IS REQUESTING RESPONSES FOR OR A BID
OUTSTANDING FOR.
09:57:00AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, I WANT TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO
SAY.
09:57:04AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF I CAN, SOUNDS LIKE TO ME, COUNCIL, BASED
ON WHAT I HEARD, WITH REGARD TO THESE PROCESSES, YOU WILL
LIKE TO BE INFORMED AT THE START OF THE PROCESS RATHER THAN
BEING THE LAST PART OF THE PROCESS WITH AN UP OR DOWN VOTE
WHEN THE CONTRACT IS BROUGHT TO YOU.
PERHAPS WORKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, WORKING WITH THE
LEGAL DEPARTMENT, SOME MECHANISM CAN BE BROUGHT UP SO THERE
IS A PROCESS YOU WOULD KNOW OF THIS RATHER THAN HAVING TO
INDIVIDUALLY GO THROUGH A PROCESS I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH TO
LOOK AT THE RFP.
09:57:35AM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
LET ME SUGGEST -- I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON
PURCHASING PER SE, AND CHIEF BENNETT IS -- IS OUT OF THE
OFFICE AND CANNOT BE HERE TODAY.
THESE ARE LARGER TYPE OF DISCUSSIONS.
THEY ARE MAJOR CHANGES TO THE WAY WE OPERATE.
I WOULD SUBJECT THESE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE
FOR THOSE FOLKS PRESENT, BECAUSE REALLY THAT'S --
09:57:57AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, CAN YOU KIND OF SEE WHAT SOME
GUIDELINES ARE.
THESE THINGS KEEP POPPING UP AND COUNCIL IS PUT IN THE
MIDDLE AND THE END AND THE COMMUNITY THINKS WE ARE
RESPONSIBLE.
SO MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW THE POLICY IS WRITTEN OR
WHAT HAD THE CHARTER SAYS AND YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT
AND SEE WHAT THIS COUNCIL MAY BE ABLE TO DO AND CHANGE
SOMETHING.
LOOK ABOUT GOING FORWARD WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION BEFORE
-- BEFORE AND THEN VERSUS AFTER AND HAVE THESE SITUATIONS.
09:58:30AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I WILL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT, COUNCIL.
IF THAT IS COUNCIL'S DIRECTION TO WORK WITH THE LEGAL
DEPARTMENT, TOGETHER WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, JUST TO
DISCUSS THE MATTER AND INFORM COUNCIL, I WILL ASK YOU DIRECT
ME IN THE FORM OF A MOTION AND I WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
09:58:43AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION AND I HOPE I
GET A SECOND TO RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE WE ARE WORKING
TOGETHER AND DON'T HAVE THESE KIND OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
09:58:53AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
09:59:04AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DO YOU WANT IT TO COME BACK ON A PARTICULAR
DATE?
09:59:07AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WE HAVEN'T APPROVED ANOTHER MOTION.
09:59:10AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
ANOTHER MOTION ON THE FLOOR?
OH, I AM SORRY.
09:59:12AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GO BACK AND APPROVE THE FIRST MOTION IN
REFERENCE TO 60 DAYS FOR THE CHIEF.
09:59:17AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
APRIL 27.
09:59:19AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
APRIL 27.
09:59:21AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE GOT THAT DATE.
THE MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO WITH THE AMENDMENT FROM
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION CARRIES.
SECOND ONE, I BELIEVE WE ALREADY MADE THE MOTION.
COUNCILMAN GUDES AND COUNCILMAN CARLSON SECONDED.
09:59:41AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT IS TO COME BACK WITH INFORMATION
REGARDING A PROCESS TO INFORM CITY COUNCIL AS OF REQUEST TO
PROPOSALS FOR REQUEST FOR QUALIFICATIONS EARLIER IN THE
PROCESS IN SOME FORM OR MATTER.
09:59:57AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WHAT TIME?
HOW MUCH TIME?
10:00:01AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
A PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION.
A BRIEF STAFF REPORT.
HOWEVER SOON YOU WANT IT.
AS SOON AS I CAN --
10:00:07AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
60 DAYS FINE FOR YOU?
10:00:10AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT WILL BE EVEN IF.
10:00:11AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A DEFINITE STATE.
10:00:15AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
APRIL 20.
10:00:20AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES FOR APRIL 20
FOR THIS COME BACK.
SECOND BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:00:25AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST DO YOU WANT A
PRESENTATION OR A WRITTEN REPORT.
I WILL DO A WRITTEN REPORT AND.
10:00:34AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
PRESENTATION.
10:00:36AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
OKAY, THANK YOU.
10:00:37AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
OPPOSED IN MOTION CARRIES.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:00:43AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WANTED TO ADD IN -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET
UP, MORRIS -- FOR THE PUBLIC'S SAFE, A LOT OF RHETORIC,
EVERY TIME WE TRY TO RE-ESTABLISH THE POWERS OF CITY COUNCIL
SOMEBODY SAYS WE ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THE POWERS OF THE
MAYOR.
CITY COUNCIL APPROVES BUDGETS AND CONTRACTS.
FOUR YEARS OF AGREEMENTS WERE ILLEGALLY APPROVED BECAUSE OF
A TWO-PARAGRAPH OPINION BY A CITY ATTORNEY.
AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HAS BEEN DONE AND NEED TO GET A
HOLD OF THESE THINGS AND NOT LET PEOPLE CHANGE THE CHARTER.
WHAT HAPPENS ON THE RFP, THE ROME YARD.
THE MAYOR HAD A PRESS CONFERENCE ON ROME YARD AND SAID WE
DECIDED TO WON THE RFP.
CITY COUNCIL WAS NOT INFORMED AT ALL.
AND TECHNICALLY, CITY COUNCIL HAS TO APPROVE THE CONTRACT.
ONLY A YEAR LATER WITH A YEAR OF NEGOTIATION THAT WAS
PRESENTED TO US PRESENTED AS A DONE DEAL.
I WILL JUST ASK IN THIS REVIEW IF THE ADMINISTRATION MAKES A
PRESS CONFERENCE OR STATEMENT THAT SOMEONE HAS BEEN AWARDED
THE RFP, THAT IS ALMOST LIKE A VERBAL COMMITMENT AND CITY
CAN'T GET AN AGREEMENT WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL.
I WILL ASK THAT WE CONSIDER CITY COUNCIL CERTAINLY SHOULD BE
INFORMED ABOUT CERTAIN RFPs, ESPECIALLY POLICY CHANGES ARE
INVOLVED UNDER THE PURSUE OF CITY COUNCIL AND HAVE TO BE
AWARE OF RFPs OF A CERTAIN SIZE AND TYPE.
BUT CERTAINLY, THE -- IF SOMEONE IS APPROVING -- QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, APPROVING A RFP, THAT GOES AGAINST THE CHARTER OF
THE POWERS OF CITY COUNCIL.
WE IS NOW NEED TO CHANGE THAT BECAUSE GUEST THE IMPLICATION
THAT CITY COUNCIL IS RUBBER STAMP WHICH OBVIOUSLY WE ARE
NOT.
THANK YOU.
10:02:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
WE WILL GO BACK TO PUBLIC COMMENT ONLINE.
MISS ALISON DAVIS, ARE YOU HERE?
ARE YOU GOING TO SPEAK DURING PUBLIC COMMENT.
10:02:51AM >> YES, I WAS GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THE LAND USE.
10:02:55AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SHE CAN IF SHE WISHES.
10:02:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IF YOU WOULD RATHER TO SPEAK TO THAT.
10:03:00AM >> THAT IS WHAT I DECIDED TO DO.
10:03:02AM >> LAWRENCE PERMACK.
ARE YOU ONLINE?
MICHAEL RANDOLPH.
MR. RANDOLPH.
10:03:11AM >> CDC.
I AM ALSO THE CEO OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE -- NATIONAL
INSTITUTES -- NATIONAL INSTITUTION FOR STRATEGIC PLANNING,
AS WELL AS INCENTIVE TO ON FROM PROFIT AND COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT.
I AM COMING TODAY WITH 30 YEARS MUCH EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS NATION ALLY.
I STARTED OUT AS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER/COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT
SPECIALIST.
FROM THERE I WENT TO COMMUNITY PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT AND
SPECIALIZE OF PUBLIC SAFETY, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND
BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT.
FROM THERE, I WENT TO COMMUNITY STRATEGIC PLANNING AND
COMMUNITY COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAM AND DISTRESSED NEIGHBORHOOD.
IN TERMS OF TRAINING, NATIONALLY I HAVE BEEN TRAINED BY THE
FOUNDATION WHICH IS THE LOCAL INITIATIVE WHO WILL SUPPORT
CORPORATION AND AS WELL AS THE COMMUNITY PARTNERS.
COLLECTIVELY THEY ARE COMING IN THE UNITED STATES.
LOCALLY, MY TRAINING INCLUDE USF AND THEIR COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT PROGRAM.
I HAVE RECEIVED CERTIFICATION FROM THERE.
I RECEIVE INFORMATION ON CERTIFICATE OF COMMUNITY VENDORS,
DEVELOPMENT.
FROM THERE, FLORIDA HOUSING CORPORATION AND BANK OF MARK.
COMMUNITY BUSINESS -- SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AND.
AND I CONTINUE TO SPEAK AT THE GRAPH PROGRAM THAT THE
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, AS WELL AS JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY.
AS YOU SEE, I COME WITH A WEALTH OF EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
OUR NEXT COMMUNITY MEETING IS GOING TO BE ON MARCH 16, WEST
TAMPA CDC, TO TALK ABOUT NEXT STEPS IN TERMS OF COMMUNITY
ENGAGEMENT.
THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT
OF INFORMATION FOR ME IN TERMS OF MY BACKGROUND.
SO IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND MY THINKING WHEN I COME ON TO TALK
DIFFERENT PROGRAMS OR PROJECTS.
AGAIN, THANK YOU.
APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO.
10:05:32AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. PRIMACK.
ARE YOU THERE?
10:05:39AM >> YEAH, AND THERE IS A -- THERE IS AN ATTORNEY THAT RUNS
THAT.
HIS NAME IS JASON BARE.
IF YOU GOOGLE HIM, HE IS OUT OF FT. LAUDERDALE.
10:05:52AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
HELLO?
10:06:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. PRIMACK, ARE YOU THERE?
MR. PRIMACK, ARE YOU THERE?
10:06:09AM >> YES, I AM.
10:06:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YOU HAVE TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.
10:06:13AM >> THANK YOU, SIR.
I JUST WANT TO THANK THE COUNCIL ON NUMBER 2 FOR CARVING OUT
HARBOUR ISLAND.
AND WE ARE A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY.
AND THE REASON WE ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT AND WE WOULD
ASK THE COUNCIL TO CONSIDER US DIFFERENT IF YOU DRIVE HOME
TODAY AND GO ON BENEFICIAL DRIVE WHICH IS THE EAST BRIDGE
AND ALSO ON NIGHTS RUN THAT YOU HEARD OF ONCE OR TWICE, YOU
WILL SEE A BEAUTIFUL INSTALLATION OF TREES, FLOWERS,
EVERYTHING GOING IN TO THE TUNE OF OVER $100,000.
ALL RIGHT.
WE PAID FOR THIS ON CITY PROPERTY OURSELVES.
WE ARE GOING TO PAY FOR THE IRRIGATION.
ALL RIGHT.
WHEN IT COMES TO CARVING US OUT AND ZONING ISSUES, WE WANT A
VOICE.
WE WANT TO BE CONSIDERED SEPARATE THAN THE DOWNTOWN.
ONE OF FEW GROUPS THAT WILL GET IN FRONT OF YOU THAT SAY WE
WANT TO DO THIS AND PAY FOR IT OURSELVES.
THAT IS ALL I WANT TO SAY AND THANK YOU FOR CARVING US OUT
UNDER NUMBER 2.
10:07:28AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
MISS POYNOR.
MISS POYNOR IS NOT ON?
MISS BENNETT.
SHE IS NOT ONLINE EITHER.
COUNCILMEMBERS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IN THE AUDIENCE.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THAT ARE WATCHING US, IT IS OFTEN SAID
THAT SPORTS BUILD CHARACTER.
I SAY SPORTS REVEALS IT.
TODAY, WE HAVE A MAN SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW THAT HE IS A
QUARTERBACK FOR THE TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS.
AND HIS CHARACTER WAS REVEALED ON DECEMBER 29, 2022 WHEN
THERE WAS A HELICOPTER CASH OFF OF DAVIS ISLAND WHERE HE AND
HIS BROTHERS ON PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICES -- JET SKIS --
THERE YOU GO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THAT WOULD BE AWFULLY HARD IN LIFE PRESERVERS -- WENT AND
RESCUED FOUR PEOPLE THAT WERE TRAPPED IN THE WATER FROM THIS
HELICOPTER CRASH AND I FELT IT WAS NECESSARY TO PRESENT MR.
BLAINE GABBERT WITH A COMMENDATION FOR HIS HEROIC ACTS.
AND I ALSO HAVE COMMENDATIONS FOR BRETT AND TYLER, HIS
BROTHERS WHO WERE THERE TO HELP SAVE FOUR LIVES.
AND I AM JUST GOING TO READ THIS, BUT I WANT YOU TO SPEAK TO
PEOPLE AND GIVE US YOUR WORDS.
TAMPA CITY COUNCIL RECOGNIZES THE HEROIC EFFORTS OF BLAINE,
TYLER AND BRETT GABBERT.
AFTER A HELICOPTER CASH ON THE AFTERNOON ON DECEMBER 29,
2022.
YOUR QUICK THINKING AND BRAVERY SAVED THE LIVES OF FOUR
PEOPLE AND TESTAMENT TO YOUR DEVOTION TO YOUR FELLOW MAN.
YOU ARE FAMILIAR AT WITH WATER SAFETY COUPLED WITH YOUR
COURAGE TO THE SUCCESSFUL RESCUE, EXCUSE ME, OF THE HUCK
FAMILY HUPP FAMILY AND THE PILOT.
OUR PLEASURE OF TAMPA CITY COUNCIL TO HONOR YOU AND YOUR
BROTHERS WITH THIS COMMENDATION ON THE 23rd DAY OF FEBRUARY,
2023.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVERY.
THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DID FOR THESE PEOPLE.
10:10:49AM >> APPRECIATE THAT.
10:10:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MY FRIEND.
[APPLAUSE]
10:10:56AM >> THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBERS FOR ALL YOU GUYS DO.
CITY OF TAMPA IS GREAT AND MY WIFE AND YOUNG DAUGHTER WILL
CALL IT OUR PERSONAL INNOCENT HOME.
THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR CITY.
IT IS AWESOME.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
WE HOP TO -- HAPPEN TO BE IN THE RIGHT AT THE RIGHT TIME.
WE DID OUR SMALL PART IN THAT RESCUE AND HOPE THAT ANY
COMMUNITY WOULD DO THE SAME THING.
MOST IMPORTANTLY THANK THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND FIRE DEPARTMENT.
WITHOUT YOUR GUYS' ROLE IN THAT, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WOULD
END UP.
THEY ALL LED AND.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
MY BROTHERS APPRECIATE THAT.
THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO.
THIS IS MY WIFE, BECCA, AND THE LITTLE LADY.
A TROOPER SITTING HERE HANGING OUT.
SO WE MADE TAMPA HOME.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU GUYS DO IN KEEPING THIS COMMUNITY WHAT
IT SHOULD BE AND WHAT IT IS.
10:11:55AM >> BLAINE, I THINK A FEW OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME OVER
AND MAKE COMMENTS.
STAND OVER HERE AND GIVE THEM THE PODIUM FOR A SECOND.
10:12:04AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL, CITY STAFF.
MR. GABBERT, ON BEHALF OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THANK YOU
SAVED A LIFE.
WE HAVE SOME SWAG BAGS HERE FOR YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS.
10:12:18AM >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:12:19AM >> WE INVITE TO YOU COME TO THE TAMPA PD 5K ON US FOR YOU
AND YOUR FAMILY.
10:12:26AM >> WOULD LOVE THAT.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
10:12:33AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEMBERS, TAMPA POLICE.
GOOD TO SEE.
I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT DAY WITHOUT YOUR QUICK THINKING, THAT
OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN SEVERELY DIFFERENT.
WE ARE THANKFUL TO HAVE YOU THERE AND EXTEND YOUR
APPRECIATION.
AND OUR CHIEF HERE AS WELL.
AND WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE, KNOWING THAT YOU NOT ONLY HAVE
FAMILIES ON LAND BUT NOW HAVE A FAMILY ON THE WATER.
10:12:59AM >> APPRECIATE IT.
[APPLAUSE]
10:13:04AM >> CORPORAL KING WITH THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE MARINE UNIT.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR HELP.
WE GET PAID TO DO THIS AND HE DID IT ON HIS OWN.
ANY TIME YOU WANT TO COME OUT AND BOAT.
10:13:17AM >> WOULD LOVE TO.
[APPLAUSE]
10:13:19AM >> STEVEN HOOPS WITH THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE.
ON BEHALF OF SHERIFF, THANK YOU FOR LETTING US PARTICIPATE
IN COMMENDATION TO RECOGNIZE SIZE BLAINE GABBERT.
THE WORK WE DO WITH TAMPA POLICE, FIRE AND HILLSBOROUGH
COUNTY FIRE.
HAVE GREAT EQUIPMENT.
24-7 OPERATION.
HE BEAT US TO THE PUNCH.
THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE WITH
YOUR HEROIC ACTIONS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[ APPLAUSE ]
10:13:47AM >>LEE BERCAW:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
INTERIM CHIEF LEE BERCAW.
I DON'T NEED TO SAY MY NAME TEN TIMES A DAY.
BLAINE, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.
WE HOPE EVERYBODY WOULD DO THE SAME IN THAT SITUATION, BUT
YOU SAVED LIVES.
WE ARE SOFUL.
THE COMMUNITY IS GRATEFUL.
I GAVE YOU A HAT AND TWO HATS FOR YOUR BROTHERS AND A
CERTIFICATE TO MAKE SURE YOU COME AND RIDE WITH US ON MARINE
PATROL.
10:14:16AM >> THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
10:14:19AM >> CHAIR PRO TEM, COUNCIL.
10:14:21AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO YOU AND YOUR
BROTHERS FOR SUCH A HEROIC ACT.
THANK YOU TO OUR PUBLIC SAFETY FOLKS WHO HELPED.
AND THANK YOU TO THE BUCS FOR HIRING PEOPLE WITH GREAT
VALUE.
10:14:37AM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE WORK DO
PROFESSIONALLY AND INDIVIDUALLY.
GOOD TO HONOR YOU HERE TODAY.
WE KNOW THAT ALL OF TAMPA SUPPORTS THIS 100%.
THANK YOU.
10:14:46AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING.
A VERY HEROIC EFFORT WITH YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS.
WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE DONE.
GLAD YOU CAME DOWN HERE SO WE AND THE PUB CAN ACKNOWLEDGE
NEW ALL OF THIS.
10:15:05AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
ALSO I WANT TO ECHO THE THANKS.
REALLY THANKS FOR BEING THE KIND OF PERSON THAT STOPS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD JUST KEPT GOING.
SO THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO YOU AND YOUR VALUES AND WE ARE
REALLY THRILLED YOU ARE PART OF THIS COMMUNITY AND I WANT TO
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING YOUR ADORABLE DAUGHTER AND YOUR
LOVELY WIFE TODAY.
SHE HAS BEEN JUST REALLY FUN TO WATCH.
NICE TO HAVE SOME YOUTH IN THE AUDIENCE.
SO THANK YOU.
10:15:33AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
GUIDO, WHERE DID HE GET THAT TWO-PIECE
SUIT.
I LOVE THAT COLOR.
GET A PICTURE OF THAT GUY'S SUIT.
I LOVE THAT SUIT, MAN.
A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN A FIRST RESPONDER AND GETTING TO THE
SCENES WHERE PEOPLE ARE STANDING AROUND LOOKING.
YOU DIDN'T DO THAT.
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY JUMPED INTO ACTION.
YOU DIDN'T LET FEAR DETER YOU.
YOU WENT INTO FIGHT MODE.
AND YOU WERE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO HELP THAT
FAMILY INTO THE FOR THE FIRST RESPONSE TO GET THERE WITH THE
PROPER EQUIPMENT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS.
THANK YOU A TO YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS AND GRATEFUL TO HAVE
YOU HERE AND PART OF THE BUCCANEER STAFF.
MR. CARLSON SAID YOU HIRE GREAT PEOPLE TO DO GREAT THINGS.
APPRECIATE FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.
10:16:22AM >> THANK YOU FOR RECOGNITION.
I APPRECIATE IT.
THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU GUYS DO.
10:16:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:16:29AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CAN WE GET A PHOTO WITH MR. GABBERT.
10:16:32AM >> SURE, LET'S GET UP THERE.
10:17:51AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE WILL GO TO ITEM NUMBER 2.
WE HAVE FOLKS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION HERE TODAY WITH A
PRESENTATION.
10:17:59AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEMBERS, MELISSA DICKENS, PLANNING
COMMISSION STAFF.
WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO SHARE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH YOU
TODAY.
WE ARE PLEASED TO INTRODUCE ALAN STEINBECK, WHO IS OUR
CONSULTANT ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO MODIFICATION TO THE
FUTURE LAND USE SECTION.
THIS IS A RESULT OF ABOUT TEN MONTHS OF DATA ANALYSIS,
LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY TO STAKEHOLDERS, CITY STAFF.
OUR STAFF ELECTED AND APPOINTED OFFICIALS AND WE ARE VERY
PLEASED TO BE ABLE TO SHARE THIS WITH YOU TODAY FOR YOUR EN
PUT.
WE ALSO WANTED TO SHARE -- FOR ANYONE WHO IS LISTENING,
THERE IS OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO PROVIDE INPUT ON THE DETAILS
OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
AFTER WE HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK, WE WILL BE GOING BACK OUT TO
THE COMMUNITY TO PRESENT MORE DETAILS.
GET ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK AND WE WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO
HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS WHO COME OUT TO THE
MEETINGS WHO ARE HERE TODAY.
WE APPRECIATE THE INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY.
WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO ALAN.
10:19:17AM >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALAN STEINBECK TO PSG.
A CONSULTANT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WORKING ON
BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND WORKING AS AN OUTSIDE ADVISOR BUT A FACILITATOR AND
LISTENER.
I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE POLICING SESSIONS THAT ARE
REFERRED TO.
I WAS ENCOURAGED VERY MUCH TO BRING INNOVATION AND STRONG
IDEAS TO THE TABLE AND WE TRIED TO DO THAT AS ADVISORS TO
THIS COMMUNITY.
BUT ALSO TO BE PART OF THE TEAM AND HELP FACILITATE GOOD
DECISION MAKING OF THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED LISTEN TO THE
STAKEHOLDERS, LISTENING TO STAFF AND YOU ALL TO TRY TO COME
UP SOMETHING THAT WILL WORK FOR THE NEXT MANY YEARS AS THIS
PLAN GETS UPDATED AND IMPROVED.
THE PURPOSE OF OUR ASSESSMENT TO LEARN HOW THE LAND USE
CATEGORIES AND POLICIES HAVE BEEN WORKING TOWARD THE GOALS
OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS WELL AS THE VISION FOR THE 2045
UPDATE THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED.
THIS EFFORT IS PART OF THE LIVE GROW THRIVE 2045 PLAN TAMPA
UPDATE.
AND IT IS A SUBSET OF THE LARGER PROJECT THAT IS GOING ON.
I AM ONLY WORKING ON LAND USE ASSESSMENT AT THE MOMENT, BUT
WE ARE WORKING ACROSS AGENCIES.
I WANTED TO GIVE A SPECIAL THANKS TO THE CITY STAFF
INVOLVED.
WE HAD SEVERAL WORKING GROUP MEETINGS WITH PLANNING
COMMISSION STAFF AND CITY STAFF.
SOME VERY OTHERWISE BUSY PEOPLE HAVE CARVED OUT TIME TO WORK
WITH US ON THESE ISSUES AND I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE
ENGAGEMENT WE HAD WITH THE CITY.
THE VISION FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED
AND BASED ON A FIRST WAVE OF PUBLIC INPUT WHERE THERE IS
OVER 1500 RESPONSES TO SURVEYS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY.
THAT VISION STATEMENT IS TAMPA IS AN INCLUSIVE, SUSTAINABLE
AN RESILIENT CITY WITH THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENTS, HISTORIC
CHARACTER, AND A DIVERSITY OF CULTURES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD
ENVIRONMENT SETTING FOR ALL.
THAT IS THE VISION FOR THE FUTURE AND MANY SUBSETS OF THAT
AND GOALS OF HOW WE ACHIEVE THAT OVER TIME.
THE LAND USE ASSESSMENT BUILDS OFF OF THAT, AND THREE
ASPECTS: A TECHNICAL EVALUATION WHERE WE LOOKED AND DID SOME
DATA CRUNCHING, LOOKING AT TRENDS, FORECASTS, THE CITY'S
CAPACITY AND LAND CAPACITY, AND NEW PERFORMANCE MEASURES TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHAT WORK HAS TO HAPPEN AND
WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.
WE DID EXTENSIVE LISTENING AND WORKING GROUPS WITH
STAKEHOLDERS INCLUDING T.H.A.N., THE TAMPA BAY BUILDINGS
ASSOCIATION AND ADVISORY MEMBER OF THE CRA.
A PUBLIC MEETING THAT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.
HAD 100 PEOPLE TO SHOW UP TO GIVE US FEEDBACK WHILE WE WERE
DOING THAT.
THIS PHASE WE ARE IN NOW, THE POLICY CONCEPTS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS WHERE IT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND USE
POLICIES ARE BEING ASSESSED AND POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT
WILL BE MADE THAT WE ARE GOING TO SHARE SOME OF THAT WITH
YOU TODAY.
FROM THE TECHNICAL EVALUATION, SEVERAL FINDINGS.
OVER TIME, TAMPA WILL SEE A SHIFT IN ITS HOUSING MIX.
60 PERCENT SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING AND WILL BECOME 60%
MULTIFAMILY OR ATTACHED HOUSING IN THE FUTURE.
TRANSITION FROM THE CITY DOMINATED BY THE HOUSE TO ONE THAT
WILL HAVE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LIVING IN OTHER TYPES OF
HOUSING IN THE FUTURE.
VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF LAND POSSIBLE NEW HOUSING IN GENERAL.
ALMOST NO VACANT DEVELOPABLE LAND.
ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WILL OCCUR WITH INFILL
REDEVELOPMENT THAT HAS ITS OWN SET OF CHALLENGES AND
OPPORTUNITIES.
HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND AVAILABILITY.
I DON'T NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THAT TOPIC IS WELL
INTRODUCED IN THIS COMMUNITY BUT WE DID IDENTIFY THE ISSUE
OF AVAILABILITY OF FAMILY HOUSING IN PARTICULAR.
IF YOU THINK OF THE NEW HOUSING BEING BUILT.
SMALLER AND VERY FEW BEDROOMS AND NOT BUILDING QUITE AS MUCH
HOUSING IN OUR COMMUNITY WITH ONE OF OUR FINDINGS.
A NEED FOR MORE DENSITY TO ACCOMMODATE PROJECT TYPES BEING
PROPOSED.
WE SEE THIS WITH PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS OF DEVELOPMENT AND
DID SOME LISTENING THAT THEY NEEDED FLEXIBILITY RELATIVE TO
THE DENSITIES AND INTENSITIES WITHIN THE CURRENT LAND USE
PLAN.
THAT IS ONE OF THE FINDINGS THAT WE HEARD.
LIMITED DEMAND FOR NEW OFFICE AND RETAIL.
THE NATURE OF HOW WE WORK AND BUY THINGS HAVE BEEN
TRANSFORMED OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS.
THE FUTURE DEMAND FOR OFFICE WHICH WE ARE OVERBUILT IN WILL
BE LIMITED FOR A LITTLE WHILE, ALSO AS WELL AS RETAIL.
OUR MIXED USE AREAS ARE BECOMING MORE RESIDENTIAL.
A POLICY GOAL THAT GOES BACK A LONG TIME WITH THE PLANNING
COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD LIVING DISTRICTS WHERE
YOU CAN LIVE IN THE CITY IN THE CENTRAL DISTRICTS OF THE
CITY AND HAVE MIXED USE AREAS WHERE PEOPLE LIVE, WORK AND DO
BUSINESS DURING THE DAY AND WE FOUND THAT POLICY INITIATIVE
IS WORKING.
MOST OF THE CITY'S MAJOR DISTRICTS ARE MUCH MORE RESIDENTIAL
AND HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGE OVER THE LAST TEN TO 15 YEARS.
THE CITY IS BECOMING MORE EFFICIENT.
WHEN I SAY THAT, I MEAN THAT THE LAND USE AND TRANSPORTATION
ACCESSIBILITY ISSUES ARE REALLY STARTING TO SHOW BENEFITS.
STILL PEOPLE.
EVERYONE THAT SHOWS UP TO TAMPA DOES A LOT OF DRIVING BUT
DOES LESS DRIVING PER CAPITAL THAN THEY DID BEFORE BECAUSE
PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN ARRANGEMENTS WHERE THEY HAVE TO DRIVE
SHORTER DISTANCES, DRIVE YES AND PROVIDING ALTERNATIVE MODES
OF TRANSPORTATION AS WELL.
COMMUNITY VALUES THAT WE HEARD -- THAT THE PLANNING
COMMISSION HEARD IN FIRST WAVE OF THIS PROCESS AND WHAT WE
HEARD IS COMMUNITY CRA, IS IMPORTANT TO TAMPA.
TAMPA IS ONE OF THE UNIQUE PLACES IN TERMS OF CULTURE,
DIVERSITY, AND HISTORY.
AND PEOPLE VALUE THAT VERY MUCH.
NOT JUST THE CULTURE BUT TAMPA'S PLACES AND NEIGHBORHOODS
AND WHAT THEY REPRESENT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.
QUALITY OF LIFE IS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE.
NEIGHBORHOODS ARE INHABITING A TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
PEOPLE ARE WANTING BETTER WHEN IT COMES TO THAT BUT ALSO
HAVING ACCESS IN TERMS OF BEING TO LIVE NEAR YOUR JOB AND
HAVE ACCESS TO OPPORTUNITY PEOPLE OF TAMPA WANT
COMPATIBILITY OF DEVELOPMENT.
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL-VERSED OF ACTIVISTS WHO UNDERSTAND
THE PROCESSES OF THE CITY AND WE APPRECIATE THEIR TIME IN
ASSESSING THIS ISSUE AND WHAT THAT MEANS TO THEM.
IN A SENSE OF STEWARDSHIP, TAMPA IS A PLACE THAT VALUES
SUSTAINABILITY, EQUITY AND RESILIENCE AND THOSE SORT OF
ISSUES, PEOPLE VALUE HAVING THEM INTEGRATED AND HOW TO
IMPROVE DEVELOPMENT.
I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES OUR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT
AND WENT OUT AND ASKED THESE QUESTIONS.
INTERACTIVE SESSIONS WITH PEOPLE WHERE WE ASKED THEM -- GAVE
THEM SOME THINGS TO PRIORITIZE.
WE ASKED THE QUESTION WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT BENEFITS OF
NEW DEVELOPMENT AND HOUSING SUPPLY AND AFFORDABILITY WAS THE
FIRST CHOICE OF THE THINGS WE OFFERED AS OPTIONS FOLLOWED BY
NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOCAL ACCESS TO GOODS AND SERVICES.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS WHAT IS THE MOST PROBLEMATIC IMPACTS OF
NEW DEVELOPMENT.
TRANSPORTATION.
LACK OF CONNECTIVITY AND SUPPORT OF TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS
AND ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC CONGESTION.
THIRD CHOICE WAS GENTRIFICATION AND NEIGHBORHOOD
DESTABILIZATION.
WE ASKED WHEN TRYING TO ENSURE COMBAT WITH EXISTING
NEIGHBORHOODS.
WHICH ARE THE FOLLOWING ARE MOST IMPORTANT?
FIRST PLACE WAS COMPATIBILITY OF USES.
IS SOMEONE BUILDING SOMETHING NEXT TO WHERE I LIVE THAT IS
AN APPROPRIATE USE WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
NOT SO MUCH SIZE NECESSARILY BECAUSE THAT IS IMPORTANT BUT
THE USE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE ANSWER.
FINALLY FROM THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING, HOW IMPORTANT TO
INNOCENT SLIDE THE FOLLOWING IN OUR LAND USE POLICIES AND WE
WANT TO THINK EARLY ON ABOUT INCENTIVES.
WE MADE IT CLEAR WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT AND PEOPLE VALUED
EVERYTHING THAT BE PROPOSED BUT TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT
OF THINGS IMPORTANT TO THEM TO INCENTIVIZE.
WE ALSO HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC OF SOME ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
WITH RESPECT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, HAVING POLICIES AND
REGULATIONS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND AND USE TRUE OF
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND ALSO A THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
IN PARTICULAR, HOW THEY WORK TOGETHER, AND PEOPLE CALLED FOR
A BETTER ALIGNMENT BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS IN TERMS OF HOW
PROJECTS ARE VEE VIEWED IN THE LENS OF THOSE DOCUMENTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS CAME UP IS THE AGE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE AND NOT UPDATED FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND ONE OF THE
CULPRITS IN THE INCOMPATIBILITY THAT EXISTS.
PEOPLE ARE CALLING FOR MORE PREDICTABILITY AND EFFICIENCY
AND DECISION-MAKING PROCESSES POE POTENTIALLY HAVING SMALLER
WAYS TO IMPROVE IDEAS THAN ANYONE COMING TO COUNCIL FOR A
SMALL THING APPROVED.
WORK ON THAT IF WE CAN.
BUT THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS AND DIALOGUE IS SOLICITED
AT APPROPRIATE TIMINGS AND WAYS TO RESPOND TO THAT AS WELL
IN THE DECISION MAKING.
STEP BACK FROM THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND INSERTING MY OWN
OBSERVATIONS OF THIS.
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE
CONSTRAINTS.
FLORIDA HAVE PLANNING TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF DENSITY AND
INTENSITY ON A PARTICULAR PROPERTY AS BEING DECLINED AS A
TAKING.
YOU REALLY CAN'T GO DOWN THAT ROAD.
ONCE YOU PUT THAT DENSITY AND INTENSITY INTO A PLAN, IT CAN
NOT BE REVERSED.
SO AT LEAST NOT UNDER THE STATUTORY REDEEM THAT WE HAVE NOW.
A STRICT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT TAKING MEANS.
AND OTHER STATES ARE NOT TREATED THAT WAY BUT THAT THE CASE
FOR US HERE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
KNOWING THAT, WE WANT TO TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY AND HOW WE
INITIATED LAND USE CHANGES.
WE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE RECOMMENDATION MAKING LAND USE
CHANGES THAT WOULD BENEFIT CERTAIN PLACES OR AREAS OR
DISBENEFIT CERTAIN PLACES AND AREAS AND HAVE EVERYONE FEEL
THAT PROCESS WAS NOT WORKING WITH THEM.
WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ADDRESSED THESE CONCERNS AND
MY RECOMMENDATION EARLY ON NOT TO UP-PLAN AND NOT TO
INCREASE THE DENSITY OF THE FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES EVEN
THOUGH MANY OF THE PROJECTS HAPPENING IN THE CITY ARE
REQUIRING ADDITIONAL DENSITY AND BONUSES TO REALLY MAKE IT
WORK.
TO FIND OUT A BETTER WAY TO DO THAT THAN TO INCREASE LAND
USE AND INTENSITY.
I AM RECOMMENDING NOT TO CREATE NEW LAND USE CATEGORIES.
NOT TO HAVE ANY MAP AMENDMENTS TO THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
FEW THINGS LIKE MIXED-USE CRITERIA AND STEP-UP OF F.A.R.
ALLOWANCES THAT EXIST IN THE CITY.
THE WAY TO APPROACH THE LAND USE UPDATE THAT WE ARE
RECOMMENDING IS TO ESTABLISH A NEW REGIME OF DENSITY BONUSES
THAT WILL APPLY MUCH BROADER THAN THE CURRENT APPROACH TO
DENSITY BONUSING THAT YOU HAVE NOW.
ESTABLISH BONUS CEILINGS ABOVE THE CURRENT MAXIMUM FOR THE
FUTURE LAND USE.
IT WILL BE CITY WIDE IN TERMS OF THE ABILITY TO HAVE BONUSES
IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY.
ENABLE BONUS CATEGORIES TO BE STACKED SO YOU WILL HAVE ONE
TYPE OF BONUS THAT YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
AND THEN BORROW FROM ANOTHER BONUS AND HAVE AN ADDITIVE
BONUS BASED ON DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU DO ON A PROJECT.
WE WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT IN A SECOND AND TALK
MORE ABOUT THAT.
AND THEN DEFINE WHEN AND WHERE BONUSES CAN BE USED IN
GENERAL.
I SAY THIS ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
BECAUSE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I WOULD SAY, HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFINE LOCATIONAL CRITERIA AND WHERE
POLICIES ARE APPLIED IN GENERAL.
BUT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO WORK IN CONCERT WITH THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE TO SPECIFY SOME OF THE DETAILS.
THE BENEFITS OF THIS BONUS STRUCTURE ARE THAT IT ENHANCES
THE ESTABLISHED GROWTH MANAGEMENT STRATEGY OF THE FUTURE
LAND USE ELEMENT.
BY NOT CHANGING THE FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES, WE ARE
STICKING WITH THE PLAN AND THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT STRATEGY
WORKING WITH THE CITY OVER THE PAST AND ALSO PUTTING IN
PLACE WHERE SOMETHING WHERE PUBLIC BENEFITS WITH BONUSING
THAT OCCURS WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT.
GREATLY INCREASES THE ROLE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND
QUALIFYING FOR BONUSES.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT OPEN UP THAT
ABILITY ON ALMOST THROUGHOUT THE CITY DEPENDING ON HOW THE
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WOULD READ.
MORE FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES ARE INCLUDED IN THE BONUS
STRUCTURE.
FEWER COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS ARE NEEDED AND FOR THE
BENEFIT OF TIME AND PEOPLE NEEDING TO GET PROJECTS TO
MARKET.
SECOND SLIDE ON BENEFITS.
REALLY THIS IS THE KEY FOR ME.
IT PUTS NOTHING IN PLACE THAT CANNOT BE REVERSED OR
CALIBRATED.
SO THE BONUS STRUCTURE AND THE NATURE OF BONUSES BEING
OPTIONAL DOES NOT CONFER IS PERMANENT DEVELOPMENT RIGHT TO
SOMEONE BY PUTTING IT INTO PLACE.
AN OPTION THEY CAN USE.
AND SO THIS IS A WAY TO ALLOW SOMETHING TO BE -- TO BE PUT
INTO PLACE THAT HAS THE FLEXIBILITY OF BEING UPDATED,
CHANGED, CALIBRATED TO CONDITIONS, OR TO INCENTIVIZE CERTAIN
THINGS AND GIVES THE WELCOME AND THE CITY THE FLEXIBILITY TO
WORK THROUGH THAT IN THE FUTURE AS THE PLANS AND THE
POLICIES ARE TESTED.
GIVE THE CITY THE FLEXIBILITY OF HOW AND WHERE BONUSES ARE
APPLIED.
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITY PLACED ON THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE WITH SOME OF DETAILS OF THIS.
IN THE PLAN -- THE PLAN WOULD APPLY THE FRAMEWORK TO PROVIDE
THAT TO HAPPEN BUT THE BONUSES WILL NEED TO BE DEFINED IN
THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AND MORE FLEXIBILITY IN HOW PROJECTS ARE APPROVED.
AND KEEPING WITH SOME OF THE DRIVE NOW TO HAVE FLEXIBILITY
IN IMPLEMENTATION OF PROJECTS.
THE BONUS TYPES INCLUDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, TRANSIT-ORIENTED
DEVELOPMENT, AND NEIGHBORHOOD NODES.
I AM GOING TO TALK ABOUT THOSE THREE IN MORE DETAIL.
BUT THE LIST ALSO INCLUDES EFFICIENT AND RESILIENT BUILDINGS
AND RENAMING THE TERM "GREEN BUILDING" TO BE EFFICIENT AND
RESILIENT.
THE GRAY WATER THAT IS A MANDATE FROM THE STATUTES AND OTHER
INCENTIVES 2349 PLAN 9 MIXED-USED AND PERIPHERY WOULD BE
MAINTAINED.
SO AS WE LOOKED AT THIS, WE WANTED TO FOCUS ON WHAT THE
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS ABLE TO ADDRESS.
SO THESE REGULATORIES INCENTIVES OF BONUS IS A CENTRAL PART
OF THAT.
ALSO SOME APPROACHES OUTSIDE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT
MANY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTING.
MANY ARE PUTTING FINANCIAL INCENTIVES IN PLACE.
SO FAR A LOT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND TRUST FUNDS HAVE BEEN
PUTTING INCENTIVES TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT
PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT FOR THE LOWER -- VERY
LOW TO LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLDS BUT WORKING WITH DEVELOPERS AND
AFFORDABLE HOUSE WILLING AND DEVELOPMENTS IN THE FUTURE WILL
REQUIRE LOCAL GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION TO MEET SOME OF THE
GOALS IN TERMS OF AMOUNT OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT NEEDS TO
BE PRODUCED.
INCLUSIONARY ZONING AND FEES.
BORROW SOME OF THE CONCEPTS OF HOW TO IMPLEMENT THIS.
WE ARE NOT RECOMMENDING ANY SORT OF MANDATORY HOUSING
PROGRAM FOR THE CITY IN THIS, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SOME
THINGS THAT CAN BE LEARNED OF HOW THESE THINGS OPERATE IN
TERMS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND WHAT IT NEEDS TO
INCLUDE.
SO ABOUT THE BONUSES, EXAMPLE NUMBER ONE IS THE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING BONUS THAT WILL PROVIDE UP TO 100% BONUS WITHIN A
CATEGORY AND HAVE A MINIMUM THRESHOLD BETWEEN 10 AND 20%.
10 IS PROBABLY ACHIEVABLE WITH A DENSITY BONUS.
10 IS DIFFICULT TO MAKE HAPPEN IN TERMS OF THE DENSITY BONUS
WITH THE ECONOMICS OF THE WHOLE THING.
WE RECOMMENDED CONSIDERING ALLOWING FOR SLIDING SCALES TO --
TO ADD DENSITY AND ADD UNITS IN A FLEXIBLE WAY.
AND ALSO, PROVIDE SOME DIFFERENT INCENTIVES FOR DIFFERENT
TYPES OF HOUSING FOR DIFFERENT TIERS OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME
RESIDENTS THAT NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING OR LOW-INCOME HOUSING
AS WELL TO MAXIMIZE THE USE OF INCENTIVES FOR PROJECTS, TO
LOOK EVERYWHERE YOU CAN IN ADDITION TO THE DENSITY BONUS TO
INCENTIVIZE WITH TERMS AND REGULATORY RELIEF.
WITH T.O.D. THIS LOOKS COMPLY -- T.O.D. BUS CORRIDOR EMPHASIS
AND TIER TWO MORE FIXED GUIDEWAY WITH TWO LEVELS BONUSING
THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE AND WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING
REQUIREMENT IN THE RANGE OF 5% TO 10%.
THESE RANGES AREN'T FINAL UNTIL WE ARE DISCUSSING THEM NOW, BUT
THIS IS THE EXAMPLE.
WE THOUGHT THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO ARE TRANSIT IS A KEY
ISSUE AND MADE SENSE TO HAVE PART OF THAT.
WE ARE PUTTING IN HERE AN OPTION FOR PAYMENT IN LIEU, AND
THAT HAS BEEN SORTED THROUGH HOW WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK AND
MAKE SENSE FOR THE CITY.
THE NEIGHBORHOOD NO BONUS ADDRESSES SOME OF THE CONCERNS
RAISED EARLIER THIS MORNING OF NEBRASKA AVENUE AND THE LACK
OF NEIGHBORHOOD, SERVICE GOODS AND SERVICES.
THE BONUS WILL BE USED TO PROMOTE COMPLETE NEIGHBORHOODS
WITH A COMPLETE SET OF WALKABLE SERVICES, RESTAURANTS, OTHER
THINGS FOR PEOPLE TO SHOP WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD.
INCENTIVIZING NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
EVEN WITH THAT, THE POTENTIAL FOR AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING
REQUIREMENT.
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT
PARTICIPATE IN HELPING TO MITIGATE TAMPA'S AFFORDABLE
HOUSING ISSUES.
BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE DETAILS WE ARE WORK ON NOW BUT THIS
NODE BONUS LOCATIONAL CRITERIA.
AS THESE PROJECTS ARE REVIEWED, YOU NEED TO BE AT THE
INTERSECTION OF TWO STREETS AT A CERTAIN LEVEL.
HAVE A CRITICAL MASTER PLAN.
OR EXISTING NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND SORT OF LIMITED
AMOUNT OF RESIDENTIAL ADJACENT TO THE SITE.
YOU ARE NOT STICKING SOMETHING SURROUNDED WITH
NEIGHBORHOODS.
BASIC CRITERIA THAT WILL ENABLE THAT BONUS.
A LITTLE FLAVOR OF SOME OF THINGS ABOUT RECOMMENDING.
NEXT STEPS INCLUDE FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS FOR EACH CATEGORY.
WE ARE WORK ON THAT NOW.
WITH A MATTER OF A FEW WEEKS, WE HAVE THE FINAL REPORT OF
THE ASSESSMENT AVAILABLE WE DO PLAN TO ARE BRIEFS AFTER THE
REPORT IS COMPLETE AND DO THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF ANOTHER
WAVE OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND STAKEHOLDER AGREEMENT.
WHERE EVERYONE HAS A CHANCE TO HEAR WHAT IS.
AND WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR FORMAL AMENDMENTS THIS
CALENDAR YEAR TO HAVE THIS GOING FORWARD AS SOON AS WE CAN
MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
10:40:05AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A LOT OF HANDS.
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, COUNCILMAN
CARLSON AND THEN COUNCILMAN GUDES WITH COUNCILMAN VIERA.
10:40:20AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT
PRESENTATION.
WE APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE MULTIFAMILY.
AND DEVELOPER SAYS 10% WILL BE DEDICATED TO WORK FORCE FOR
AFFORDABLE.
AND 20% IS NOT FEASIBLE FOR TRANSIT DEVELOPMENT AFFORDABLE
HOUSING REQUIREMENT 5 TO 10%.
FOR CLARITY, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
IF WE EXPECT SAY 20%.
MEET IN THE MIDDLE.
A TOTAL SET OF GUIDELINES.
10:41:03AM >> SO YOU WOULD HAVE THIS MENU OF BONUSES THAT YOU CAN SEE
DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE.
IF YOU WERE IN A QUALIFYING AREA FOR TOD.
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF TOD BONUS AND THE ASSOCIATED AFFORDABLE
HOUSING REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT ONLY YOU WANTED TO ADD ON TO
THAT AND THE LIMIT OF THE FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORY AND ADD
MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS.
ACCORDINGLY UP THE DENSITY NEEDED TO MAKE YOUR PROJECT WORK
REQUIRES THEM TO BE DESIGNED FOR THAT AND FLEXIBLE AND THAT
IS WHY I RECOMMEND IT HAPPENING.
THE REASON T.O.D. IS LOWER, THE BONUS SUPPLY AND ONLY THING
YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH MEETING THE THRESHOLDS AND
REQUIREMENTS OF THAT.
IF YOU MAKE THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE T.O.D. AFFORDABLE
HOUSING EXACTLY THE SAME SAME THING OF WHAT WAS NEEDED.
THE RATIONALE FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING REQUIREMENTS PROVIDE
OTHER PUBLIC BENEFITS EQUIPMENT TO THE AAFFORDABLE HOUSING
UNIT.
10:42:34AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
10:42:36AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU THE PRESENTATION, AND WE SPOKE ON THIS
BEFORE WE GOT STARTED AND I APPRECIATE YOU TOOK THE TIME IN
DOING -- INDIVIDUALLY IN DOING THIS.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO SAY I LOVE THIS, INCLUDING
LOWER AMI TO GET HIGHER BONUSES AND FOR THE PUBLIC IS AREA
MEDIAN INCOME.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE GREAT ARE FOR THE WORKFORCE GROUP AND WHAT
WE ARE SEEING IN THE COMMUNITY NOW DESPERATE NEED FOR
HOUSING FOR FOLKS WHO NEED A CHEAPER PLACE TO LIVE.
I HAVE A QUESTION OF THE PAYMENT IN LIEU, WHERE WILL THAT
PAYMENT GO?
10:43:43AM >> IN A HOUSING TRUST FUND IN THE BOX THAT YOU HAVE NOW OR
GO INTO THE GENERAL TRUST FUND TO BE USED --
10:43:59AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WE WOULDN'T WANT IT IN GENERAL.
WE WOULD WANT IT IN HOUSING.
10:44:02AM >> A COUPLE OF DEVELOPERS THAT CAME THROUGH THAT DIDN'T WANT
TO PARTICIPATE.
PAY THE PARTICIPATION IN LIEU AND GO TO A FUND.
AND ANOTHER WHO WANTED TO PARTICIPATE AND PROVIDE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AND DO SOMETHING LIKE 20% OR 30% WHICH IS HIGH
NUMBER IN THE DEVELOPMENT, YOU WILL HAVE THE ABILITY THEN TO
USE THAT FUND THAT WAS A FUNCTION OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY
TO PUT THAT BACK INTO A DEVELOPMENT TO BECOME A PUBLIC,
PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP AND PROVIDING A HIGH LEVEL OF HOUSING.
IT WILL BE SORT OF A CLOSED-LOOP, IF YOU WILL, WHERE SOURCE
OF REVENUE COMES FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO
BE PART OF THE CITY'S FINANCIAL POSITION TO START DOING THAT
AND GIVES YOU MORE FLEXIBILITY IN NEGOTIATING MORE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN PROJECTS.
WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC OF -- OF WHAT IS
WORKING AND WHAT ISN'T.
AND A 10% GOAL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THE
50 TO 80% AMI CATEGORY IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FINANCIAL GAP
TO FILL FOR SOMEONE.
SO THE BONUS PLUS THE INCENTIVE MONEY, I THINK, IS GOING TO
BE THE FUTURE.
I KNOW THAT IS NOT HAPPENING SO MUCH NOW.
BUT I PREDICT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE STRONG PACE OF ADOPTION OR
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT IS THE BEST PATH.
10:45:34AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
AND I AGREE.
THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD ENCOURAGE JUST FOR US AND OTHER
STAKEHOLDERS AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT.
A LOT OF OPTIONS YOU ARE PUTTING ON THE TABLE WHICH IS
GREAT.
A GOOD IDEA.
I THINK VISUALLY HARD TO SEE WHAT THOSE OPTIONS MIGHT LOOK
LIKE.
IF THERE IS A WAY YOU COULD DO ONE OR TWO EXAMPLES OF HEY,
IF WE ARE GOING TO PUT SOMETHING AT THIS INTERSECTION, WHAT
ARE THE TYPES OF BONUSES.
WHAT COULD THAT LOOK LIKE.
I THINK THAT WILL HELP THE PUBLIC AND ALSO US TO UNDERSTAND
A LITTLE BIT BETTER HOW THIS OPENS UP THE OPTIONS FOR
EVERYONE BECAUSE I CAN SEE THIS.
BUT MORE SPECIFICS I THINK WILL REALLY HELP EVERYONE
UNDERSTAND WHAT A POSITIVITY COMES WITH THIS LIST OF
CHOICES.
IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
10:46:30AM >> IT DOES.
WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR MORE -- MORE CONTENT
THAT HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPTS AND EVEN TALKED
ABOUT DOING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
10:46:42AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
100%.
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT.
THAT WOULD HELP EVERYONE.
THANK YOU.
10:46:48AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:46:51AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
FEW THINGS.
NUMBER ONE, FOR ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR TO YOU MEET
WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERS ESPECIALLY MY DISTRICT AND
THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND LISTEN TO THEM AND TALK TO IT.
A LOT OF QUESTIONS BECAUSE CONFUSION ON THIS.
SECOND IS I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO TIGHTEN ALL THIS.
THE PROBLEM -- ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN IS, FIRST OF ALL, IT IS WAY TOO LONG.
AND SECOND THAT IT IS WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT BOTH SIDES CAN
JUSTIFY WHAT THEY WANT BY READING IT.
THE WORDS ARE SUCH THAT ANYBODY CAN INTERPRET IT IN A WAY
THAT -- THAT -- THAT DEPENDS WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO.
I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC IF WE NEED TO EDIT
IT.
TO THAT POINT, A FEW THINGS.
WE TALK ABOUT AMI.
I WOULD ARGUE STRONGLY AGAINST ANYTHING ABOVE 100% AMI.
WE ARE GIVING SOMETHING NEXT CHANGE.
GIVE BONUS DENSITY FOR DEVELOPERS, THAT IS FINE.
PROJECTS WHERE THEY ARE 150% TO 20% OF AMI AND THEY CALL
THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND IT IS NOT.
WE CAN CALL IT WORKFORCE HOUSING OR SOMETHING ELSE, BUT TO
GO THROUGH AND COUNT -- AS IT IS COUNTING 10,000 TO 50,000,
COUNSELING 200 TO 300% OF AMI, THAT DOESN'T COUNT.
WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT.
AND WE SHOULDN'T BE GIVING SOMETHING AWAY FOR THAT.
IF WE DON'T MAKE IT SPECIFICALLY TOO HIGH, THEN EVERYBODY
QUALIFIES AND WE MAY AS WELL CHANGE THE ZONING AND LET
EVERYBODY DO.
TO YOUR POINT OF THE ZONING CATEGORIES.
I ASKED THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO FOR WE TO GET A MARITIME CATEGORY.
100 YEARS FROM NOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REGRET THAT WE SOLD
OUR WATER FRONT, OUR WORKING PORT, BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO
NEED MORE ACCESS TO IT THAN EVER.
THE THING WE CAN'T REPLACE IS LAND AND WATER FRONT LAND AND
PEOPLE WANT TO REPLACE HIGH-PAYING BLUE COLORED JOBS AND
LOGISTICAL ACCESS.
THE PROBLEMS WITH LOGISTICS.
IF WE SHUT DOWN OUR PORT BECAUSE SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE
INSTANT PROFIT OFF A CONDO, END UP WITH LOW PAYING
MAINTENANCE JOBS INSTEAD OF HIGH PAYING BLUE COLLAR AND
WHITE-COLLAR JOBS THAT ARE WE WILL ECONOMIC ENGINES FOR YOUR
AREA.
I AM NOT MAKING A MOTION BUT A MARITIME CATEGORY THAT WE CAN
PROTECT.
THE OTHER THIS I THINK, I THINK WE SHOULD SEPARATE SOME OF
THE ZONING CATEGORIES.
SOME DEFINITIONS -- I DON'T WANT TO TALK OF THE SPECIFIC
ONES, THOSE THAT ARE HIGH INTENSITY THAT ARE ALLOWED THAT
FOLKS DON'T LIKE AND SURPRISE THAT SUDDENLY SOMETHING IS
BUILT BEHIND THEM THAT THEY DIDN'T EXPECT.
AT SOME POINT, I THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO SHIFT SOME OF THOSE.
CAN'T TAKE AWAY ENTITLEMENTS, BUT IF WE PUT A NEW
ENTITLEMENT, AN OLD CATEGORY INSTEAD OF NEW CATEGORY.
STRICT GUIDELINES.
WITH T.O.D.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT WILL JUSTIFY AS T.O.D. RIGHT NOW
EXCEPT FOR NEXT TO THE STREETCAR.
WE HAVE BUS LANES THAT CAN CHANGE ALL THE TIME.
I RECOMMEND STRONGLY THAT WE SPECIFICALLY DEFINE WHAT THOSE
ARE IN VERY NARROW TURNS.
YOU TALK OF NEIGHBORHOOD NODES.
WHAT THE PLANNERS I CONSULT CALLED NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL
DISTRICTS AND A COUPLE OF PLANS THAT WE HAVE DONE.
I SPENT TIME IN SINGAPORE WHERE THEY BUILT THEIR
TRANSPORTATION -- THEY BUILT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD NODES OR
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS AND BUILT TRANSPORTATION
ON TOP OF IT.
TRANSPORTATION WILL NEVER WORK IN TAMPA UNTIL WE BUILD THOSE
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
CAN'T BE EVERY INTERSECTION.
HAVE TWO ROADS GOING ACROSS IT.
SOME PLANNERS SAY 130 OF THESE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
I NEED TO SPECIFICALLY DEFINE THEM AND HAVE A SPECIFIC NAME.
A LEGAL DEFINITION NOT JUST A CROSSING OF ROADS.
IF COUNCIL AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND NOT JUST THAT A
BUS WILL GO BY AND STOP.
AND SERVICE THAT IS BY MAJOR INFRASTRUCTURE AND IDEALLY THAT
IT WILL BE MORE PERMANENTLY BASED.
ALSO WE KNOW FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT MOST COMMUNITIES WANT
RETAIL ON THE BOTTOM.
SO TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN MANDATE THAT.
AND EVEN GET BONUSES WITH RETAIL ON THE BOTTOM.
AND SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF IT -- SPECIFICS IN
NARROWING IT DOWN.
YOU TALK OF THE DISCUSSION AFTER THIS OF HAVING INDIVIDUAL
DISCUSSIONS.
I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT.
IF YOU ALL ARE DOING IT.
THE LAST THING IS THE PAYMENT IN LIEU.
TO ME SOUNDS LIKE THE TREE FUND AND SIDEWALK FUND THAT HAS
ALL KIND OF PROBLEMS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.
I WOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF THAT AT ALL.
IF WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE RULES THAT EVERYBODY HAS
ACCESS TO IT, LET'S JUST CHANGE THE RULES.
WHY WOULD WITH WE SET UP SOMETHING COMPLICATED.
IF SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING TO SOLVE A SPECIFIC PROBLEM WE
ARE TRYING TO SOLVE LIKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND REAL
DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR OUR
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS I UNDERSTAND PROVIDING A
BONUS.
IF WE JUST PAY, THE MONEY ENDS UP SOMEWHERE, EVEN THOUGH IN
A SPECIAL FUND AND ENDS UP BEING SPENT ON OTHER THINGS AND
VERY HARD TO MANAGE AND WHY CAN WE HAVE THAT AND CAN LEAD TO
ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.
THANK YOU.
10:52:26AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
10:52:28AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I AM GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THAT POINT,
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
IF I DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING, PAY INTO THE FUND.
IF THEY WANT TO FOLLOW THE PROCESS, THEY NEED TO FOLLOW THE
PROCESS AND NOT GET AROUND THE PROCESS.
TO ME, THAT IS GETTING AROUND THE PROCESS.
HOPE TO HAVE IT AND NOT A MANDATE.
OTHER CITIES DO HAVE.
YOU WOULDN'T RECOMMEND -- YOU DIDN'T RECOMMEND WHEN YOU TALK
OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I SAY ATTAINABLE HOUSING THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
I WANT TO TELL YOU WHY YOU WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT.
I DON'T BELIEVE I AM RECOMMENDING NOT HAVING IT THROUGHOUT
THE CITY.
WE ARE VERY RECOMMENDING HAVING THAT THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND
HAVING THESE BONUSES APPLY.
10:53:08AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I MISINTERPRETED.
I HAVE SOMEONE COME UP HERE WHO SAY THEY HAVE 543 APARTMENTS
THEY WANT TO BUILD IN A BUILDING, AND YET YOU WILL GIVE ME
FIVE AFFORDABLE, ATTAINABLE HOUSING UNITS OR MAYBE TEN.
I HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN BEFORE.
AND I -- I HAVE AN ISSUE.
I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU SOME DOLLARS AND YOU ARE GOING TO
GIVE ME FIVE TO TEN UNITS AND YOU HAVE 500 SOME ODD UNITS TO
PUT IN A BUILDING?
YOU ARE SAYING THAT 20% IS TOO HIGH.
TELL ME THE RATIONALE SAYING 20% IS TOO HIGH.
10:53:48AM >> NOT TOO HIGH AS A POLICY GOAL, IT IS -- IT IS HIGHER THAN
RELYING ONLY ON DENSITY BONUSES CAN REALLY FEASIBLY RESULT.
SO MY POINT WAS IF YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE 20% IN A PROJECT AS A
GOAL, JUST GIVING DENSITY BONUSES OUT IN TERMS OF THAT 20%,
ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A MIX OF 50 TO 80.
AND 180 TO 100 TO 120.
YOU -- NOT ENOUGH DENSITY BONUSING THAT YOU CAN FEASIBLY
GIVE THAT PERSON TO GET THAT RETURN BACK.
OTHER INCENTIVES HAVE TO BE IN PLACE TO MEET THAT GOAL.
NOTHING WRONG WITH SETTING THAT GOAL.
I JUST WANT TO CAUTION, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN OUR RESEARCH IS
THAT 20% IS DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE WITH DIFFERENT TRANCHES OF
AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR DIFFERENT INCOME LEVELS THAT ARE
BEING REQUIRED.
SO THAT MEANS -- THAT'S WHY I AM SAYING HAVING SOME MONEY TO
WORK WITH SOMEONE TO CLOSE THE FINANCIAL GAP OF HOW TO
FINANCE THOSE THINGS WITHIN A PROJECT.
IF YOU HAVE A HIGH STANDARD FOR WHAT IS INCLUDED.
THAT MY PREDICTION IS THAT CITIES WILL HAVE TO GO DOWN THAT
ROAD AND HAVE THAT MONEY AVAILABLE AND THAT MONEY HAS TO
COME FROM SOMEWHERE.
SO THAT IS PART OF THE RATIONALE FOR THE -- FOR PAYMENT
IN LIEU.
I AGREE WITH YOU, SIR, PAYMENT IN LIEU.
THE PAY NOT TO PLAY SYSTEM HAS ITS FLAWS.
BUT IT IS ONE OF THE WAYS TO RAISE REVENUE FOR -- FOR MAKING
GENERATING A SUSTAINABLE SOURCE OF REVENUE FOR THE CITY TO
USE AND OTHER PROJECTS.
THAT IS THEIR REAL BENEFIT AND OTHER BENEFITS THAT I WILL
ACKNOWLEDGE.
10:55:34AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WANT TO BE USE THAT IN OTHER AREAS.
I WANT TO STAY.
HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT, IT NEEDS TO STAY IN HOUSING TO BE
UTILIZED FOR HOUSING.
10:55:43AM >> OH, YES.
10:55:44AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I WOULDN'T SUPPORT ANYTHING IN LIEU.
MEANS IT STAYS IN THAT FUND TO BE UTILIZED.
I THINK THAT -- THAT IS A BIG DEAL WITH SOME OF THE OTHER FUNDS
WE DO HAVE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE PLANS,
COMMUNITIES DO -- ARE ENGAGED BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WHEN WE GO
ON THE TRAIL RIGHT NOW, NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING
ABOUT HOUSING.
NO ONE IS TALKING ANY -- I DON'T CARE WHAT FORM WE GO TO,
THEY ARE HERE TALKING ABOUT HOUSING.
THEY ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT NO POLICE.
THEY ARE NOT REALLY -- YOU KNOW TRANSIT MAY COME UP A BIT.
BUT THE MAIN FOCUS IS HOUSING.
AND THAT IS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
MY THING IS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE FOCUSING -- WE ARE FOCUSED
ON HOW WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF MAKING SURE
EVERYONE CAN HAVE A ROOF AND WALLS AROUND THEM.
THAT IS REALLY WHAT I AM FOCUSED ON AND I WILL BE PAYING
ATTENTION TO GET MORE INFORMATION.
AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE GOOD PLANS.
NOT JUST HAVING A PASS, BUT THESE ARE THE PROCESSES AND
RULES NOW.
IF YOU HAVE RULES, YOU CAN'T FROM MISINTERPRETATIONS.
I SEE -- I SEE POLICIES -- I SEE POLICIES.
THEY ARE ALWAYS SOMEONE INTERPRETING WHERE THEY WANT TO
INTERPRET VERSUS SAYING SHALL OR MUST.
THAT IS CLEAR.
SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHEN WE MAKE THESE PLANS, THEY ARE
CLEARED.
THANK YOU, SIR.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
10:57:09AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
10:57:11AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
THAT BRINGS UP A VERY GOOD POINT, COUNCILMAN GUDES, THAT ONE
OF THE THINGS WE NEED MOST AND I HEAR CONSTANTLY IS
DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING WE LIKE TO REFER TO AS MISSING
MIDDLE HOUSING.
WHAT YOU SHARED HERE IS HOW WE CAN KIND OF GET MORE OF
LARGER DEVELOPMENTS.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
WILL HELP US FIND THE RIGHT SPACES FOR THIS MISSING MIDDLE
HOUSING LIKE AS YOU SAID EVERYWHERE WE ARE GOING RIGHT NOW,
THIS IS WHAT WE ARE HEARING A NEED FOR.
10:57:49AM >> WELL, IT IS TRUE THAT THE LARGER DEVELOPMENTS GET A LOT
OF ATTENTION AND MAKING MISSING MIDDLE HAPPEN IS VERY
DIFFICULT.
YOU DON'T SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING IT.
A HIGH-RISK ENDEAVOR.
SORTS OF CUTS AGAINST THE GRAIN OF THE NORM IN MOST PLACES
AND DEVELOPERS.
IF -- IF IT IS RISKY, IT IS OUT OF THE NORM AND VERY
CHALLENGING TO MAKE MONEY DOING IT.
SOMETHING THAT WILL SCARCE.
ALL IS FOR MIDDLE MISSING HOUSING.
AND HARD TO FIND SITES.
AND IT IS DIFFICULT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
THE -- WITH RESPECT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROVIDING
THESE DENSITY BONUSES.
WE ARE TALKING OF PROVIDING THEM ACROSS CATEGORIES, NOT JUST
IN THE MIXED USE CATEGORIES THAT YOU ARE USED TO SEEING
BONUSES BEING CONSIDERED IN THE CITY.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN ALL OF THE ZONES.
IT WILL BE UP TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO REALLY -- THE
PLACE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO TALK ABOUT USE AND
TYPE OF HOUSING AND REALLY SPECIFY WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND
ALLOWED.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO
LIMIT THE CITY'S ABILITY TO -- TO DO THAT SORT OF THING.
WE TALKED THROUGH ALL OF THAT.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE EXHAUSTED THE CONVERSATION IN MIDDLE
HOUSING BUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE WE ARE WORKING
IN CONCERT WITH THAT STRATEGY.
I AM DEFINITELY HEARING IT IS BROAD AND I HAVE IT
ACROSS THE DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT WERE TALKING TO TO YOU.
AND WE ARE WORKING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I WANT TOP STRESS THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT REALLY CAN
PROVIDE THE FRAMEWORK, BUT A LOT OF WORK HAS TO BE DONE
UNDERNEATH.
SO WE ARE THE REASON I AM COMING YOU ALL WITH SOME OF THE
THINGS OF THE CITY'S CONCERN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE AS WE DO
IT, WE ARE MAKING SURE WE PUT TOGETHER FEASIBLE STRATEGY
IMPLEMENTED AND DISCUSSIONS ARE GOING ON HOW TO YOU WHO DO
THAT SPECIFICALLY.
WHETHER THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENTS GO FIRST OR THIS A PACKAGE
OF IMPROVEMENTS THAT IS DONE AT THE SAME TIME.
SO THAT IS ALL HAPPENING.
AND WE ARE TAKING ALL OF CONCERNS AND MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING
INTO CONSIDERATION.
11:00:06AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
11:00:07AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE ELSE?
THANK YOU FOR THIS PRESENTATION.
YOU SAID SOME WORDS THAT I HAVE BEEN WRITING DOWN HERE.
AND THESE ARE ALL BOARDS THAT I HEAR FROM NEIGHBORHOOD
ASSOCIATIONS AND WHERE I GO IN THE CITY.
WALKABILITY.
PUBLIC SAFETY.
EVEN THOUGH WE ARE HEARING ABOUT HOUSING, THERE ARE CAUSE
AND EFFECT.
MORE PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE AREA, PUBLIC SAFETY.
REPRESENTATIVES FROM POLICE AND FIRE BACK THERE, UNIONS.
ARTERIAL ROADWAYS.
RESILIENCY.
TRANSPORTATION.
PARKING.
THEN SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I HEAR FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD
ASSOCIATIONS.
COASTAL HIGH HAZARD.
GENTRIFICATION, WHICH YOU MENTIONED.
HISTORIC.
NOW WE ARE LOOKING FOR DENSITY.
WE ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHICH BRINGS ME
TO ANOTHER POINT.
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WITH INCENTIVES A COUNCILPERSON WAS
TRYING TO CHANGE A DEVELOPER'S MIND BY SAYING WE HAVE THESE
WONDERFUL INCENTIVES TO OFFER YOU.
WILL YOU PUT IN MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THAT PERSON SAID, NO.
HOW CAN WE AS A COUNCIL GET MORE BITE INTO ASKING DEVELOPERS
TO PUT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN WHEN WE ARE PREEMPTED BY
THE STATE OF FLORIDA FOR DOING THAT.
WE WANT MORE HOUSING.
WE NEED MORE HOUSING.
WE NEED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I AM HOPING THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE QUALITY OF
LIFE.
AGAIN, PUBLIC SAFETY AND WITH CITY SERVICES.
WE WANT DENSITY.
WITHOUT DENSITY WE CAN'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION.
WITHOUT TRANSPORTATION, WE CAN'T HAVE DENSITY.
KAREN KRESS OF THE DOWNTOWN PARTNERSHIP CHANGED MINIMUMS UP
AND DOWN TAMPA STREET AND FLORIDA AVENUE.
HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET REPRESENTATION.
I BROUGHT TO THIS COUNCIL -- EXCUSE KNEE THE CRA POOHRD TO
TRY TO EXTEND THE STREETCAR.
MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
TRANSPORTATION.
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IN MY OPINION, YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER.
AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THIS PRESENTATION.
I ALSO NEED TO ASK ONE MORE THING.
PD-As.
WERE THEY DISCUSSED IN THIS ISSUE.
AND PD-As ARE LARGER AMOUNTS OF PROPERTIES THAT CAN BE
PLANNED OUT IN CERTAIN PHASES.
WERE THEY DISCUSSED IN THIS ISSUE?
BECAUSE -- ABBYE HANG ON.
BECAUSE IT IS A LARGER TRACT OF LAND THAT IN MY OPINION
NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN.
JUST ASKING.
11:03:03AM >> NO.
WE HAVE --
11:03:06AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE COMES ABBYE.
MISS FEELEY.
11:03:12AM >>ABBYE FEELEY:
ABBYE FEELEY.
PD-As ARE A ZONING NOT A LAND USE AND ARE NOT CONTROLLED OF
THE UMBRELLA OF THE COMPREHENSIVE AND NOT PART OF THE WORK
FOR MR. STEINBECK.
11:03:27AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
A LOT OF WORK THAT CAN BE INTERJECTED HERE
AND THERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPORT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORT.
ANYBODY ELSE FOR ONE LAST TIME?
11:03:40AM >> THANK YOU.
11:03:40AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3.
11:03:43AM >> A QUESTION FOR A CALL FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
YOU MENTIONED THAT.
11:03:54AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
PUBLIC COMMENT ON ITEM NUMBER 2, PLEASE.
11:03:57AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK?
11:04:08AM >> GOOD MORNING.
I AM ALISON DATE.
I LIVE HERE IN COMPANY.
AND I AM WITH THE SIERRA CLUB.
I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT TREES, NATURAL RESOURCES, AND I DON'T
SEE THEM MENTIONED VERY MUCH IN THE COMP PLAN.
EVERYTHING IS VERY VAGUE.
BUT THERE WERE THREE SORT OF CATEGORIES THAT SORT OF
MENTIONED IT, BUT I DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY SEE ANYTHING ABOUT
REALLY PROTECTING OUR WATER, OUR UNDEVELOPED LAND, HAVING
GREEN SPACE AND HAVING TREES.
SO ON THAT NOTE -- I APPRECIATED HEARING THIS INFORMATION.
THAT IS WHY I WAITED TO HEAR ABOUT IT.
TO SEE IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANYTHING MENTIONED ABOUT
THAT.
BUT -- NOW I AM GOING TO SHARE WHAT I WAS GOING TO SHARE.
MANY ENVIRONMENTAL TIPPING POINTS OCCURRING ON OUR PLANET.
WE ZERO IN ON TAMPA WITH THE GROWING POPULATION AND
INCREASING CLIMATE THREATS AND DECREASING NATURAL RESOURCES,
HE BELIEVE -- THIS IS MY PERSONAL BELIEF, THAT GRAND LIVE
OAKS ARE A CRUCIAL KEYSTONE SPECIES THAT NEED TO BE PART OF
THE CITY'S VISION THAT ALL RESIDENTS HAVE ACCESS TO HE CAN
BAA TABLE AND HIGH QUALITY LIFE.
INSTEAD, THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE LAND USE PLAN SEEMS TO BE TO
INCREASE DENSITY IN HOUSING EVEN THOUGH THERE IS MENTION THAT
THERE MAY NOT BE SUFFICIENT LAND THAT CAN ACCOMMODATE DEMAND
THE PLAN DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUE OVER -- OF
OVERDEVELOPMENT OR THREE OF NINE GOALS, INCLUDING WHAT OPEN
SPACE IS AND HOW IT IS VALUED AND PROTECTED.
THERE IS NO MENTION OF MAINTAINING OUR URBAN CANOPY OR GREEN
SPACE AND SPECIFICALLY THERE IS A WORD OF THE WORD TO
PROTECT THE GRAND LIVE OAKS THAT ARE NEEDED TO REDUCE THE
WORSENING AIR QUALITY DUE TO INCREASED TRAFFIC NO MENTION OF
FLOODING AND BEING IN HIGH COASTAL HIGH HAZARD STORM AREAS
AND HOW TREES PLAY A ROLE IN THE MITIGATION OF THAT WATER.
NO MENTION OF THE NEED TO REDUCE RISING SUMMER TEMPERATURES
FOR WHICH GRAND OAKS CAN PROVIDE SHADE AND HELP CREATE A
COOLING EFFECT.
PRESERVING AND MAINTAINING TREES NEED TO BE A PRIORITY FOR
THIS TO HAPPEN.
INSUFFICIENT REGULATIONS AND INADEQUATE FINES TO ENFORCE
PROTECTION OF ADEQUATE GREEN SPACE AND GREAT GRAND LIVE
OBSERVATION IN DEVELOPMENT PLANS.
PERHAPS INCORPORATING THE TREE PROTECTION ZONE THAT ARE USED
FOR SMALLER HOUSING LOTS INTO ALL BUILDING SITE PLANS IN
ORDER TO DECREASE TREE CANOPY LOSS CAN HAPPEN.
I LIKED THE THOUGHT AT THAT TALKED OF BETTER ALIGNMENT
BETWEEN THE COMP PLAN AND THE LAND USE CODE AND INCENTIVE
AND BONUSES SOUND VERY PRODUCTIVE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
11:07:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT.
11:07:28AM >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM THE SIERRA CLUB.
WE WANT TO CLARIFY ONE THEY THINK.
EVEN THOUGH THIS IS COMPONENT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN,
THERE ARE OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COMING
FORWARD TO BE UPDATED.
SPECIFICALLY A NUMBER OF ITEMS, TREES, WATER PROTECTION
TONIGHT IS THE ONE WATER ADOPTION HEARING.
WE HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL SECTION.
A COASTAL MANAGEMENT SECTION THAT WE BELIEVE THOSE ARE WHERE
THOSE ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED.
WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE SIERRA CLUB TO MAKE
SURE THOSE ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED IN THESE SESSIONS.
THAT'S WHERE THOSE TOPICS BE ADDRESSED.
THANKS.
11:08:10AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:08:14AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WANT TO ASK YOU A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION.
WHEN SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT, THE OTHER THING THAT ARISEN
WITH THE CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLOODING GOING ON IS PERMEABLE
SPACE.
IS THAT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED SOMEWHERE?
BESIDES THE LANDSCAPE WILLING AND TREES, IF SOMEONE PUTTING
OUT AS QUALITY FOR A PARKING LO THE, IF IT IS PERMEABLE IT
WILL PREVENT FLOODING AND RUNNING IN THE STREET.
11:08:41AM >> POLICIES IN ONE CHAPTER THEIR SPEAK TO LOW-IMPACT
DEVELOPMENT.
PERMEABLE SURFACES AND PERMEABLE PARKING, AND THE
IMPLEMENTATION HAMS HA THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND
THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
11:08:53AM >>BILL CARLSON:
FOR THE SAME CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD, ANY
INCENTIVES TO GET PEOPLE TO PUT PERMEABLE SPACE WILL HELP A
LOT BECAUSE SO MUCH FLOODING AND ITS GETTING WORSE AND
WORSE.
11:09:03AM >> THANK YOU.
11:09:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
MISS POYNOR, ARE YOU ON THE LINE.
11:09:09AM >> YES, CAN YOU HEAR ME?
11:09:11AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, MA'AM.
11:09:12AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
MY NAME IS STEPHANIE POYNOR.
I WANT TO FOLLOW UP A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I GAVE IN THE
FEEDBACK WITH THE OFFICIAL PRESENTATION THAT WAS SENT
EARLIER -- THE ONE THAT WAS DONE EARLIER.
FIRST OF ALL, WE TALK OF DENSITY, DENSITY, DENSITY.
ABOUT.
WE ALL KNOW SOUTH TAMPA IS A PENINSULA AND MOST IN THE
COASTAL HIGH HAZARD AREA.
WE REALLY NEED TO DEVELOP THIS.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT DECIDED TO SELL 25 ACRES OF OUR LAND,
SCHOOL DISTRICT LAND TO PUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR ANY TIME
OF HOUSING ON OUR PENINSULA WHEN WE ARE ALREADY OVERRUN.
WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET THAT TO BE RECOGNIZED IN THE
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND FOR EACH NEIGHBOR, EACH COMMUNITY.
WE HAVE HALF A DOZEN COMMUNITIES WITHIN THE CITY WHO HAVE
THEIR OWN LAND USE CODE.
THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN PLANNING DISTRICT.
WE HAVE IN THE LAST THREE OR FOUR MONTHS, WE HAD TWO HUGE
ISSUES BECAUSE THESE FIVE PLANNING DISTRICTS ARE NOT ALIGNED
WITH WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK THEY LIVE.
I MEAN, THE CONVERSATION ABOUT ADUs WERE HAD.
AND PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT -- WHO WILL TELL YOU AND SWEAR ON A
STACK OF BIBLES THAT THEY LIVE IN SOUTH TAMPA FOUND OUT THAT
THEY LIVE IN THE CENTRAL PLANNING DISTRICT.
SEMINOLE HEIGHTS HAVE THEIR OWN RULES.
YBOR HAVE THEIR OWN RULES.
WHY NOT ADDRESSING THAT IN THEIR RULES.
HERE IS THE OTHER THING, WHY SHOULD WE HAVE MANY
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS AND BEST OF THE BRIGHTEST OF
LAND USE PLANNERS AT WORK IN OUR CITY AND WHAT THEY ARE
DOING IS COMING IN BEHIND THEM WHEN WE DO COMP PLANS AND
SAYING WHAT THOSE PEOPLE SAID WASN'T LAW AND GARBAGE AND
LET'S DO WHAT WE WANT.
TIME TO REALISTICALLY TAKE A LOOK HOW MANY COMP PLANS WE
HAVE AND WE NEED TO HAVE SOLID STATEMENTS THAT SAY THAT YOU
CAN NOT MAKE CHANGES TO THE COMP PLAN.
JUST NO REASON FOR IT.
SO WE CANNOT HAVE DENSITY IN EVERY SINGLE AREA AND NEEDS TO
BE VERY WELL SPELLED OUT FOR THE COASTAL HIGH HAZARD AREA.
PLACES LIKE THE SOUTH OF GANDY WHERE IT IS AN EVACUATION
ISSUE ON TOP OF THE FACT A TRAFFIC AND DENSITY ISSUE IN AN
AREA WHERE THE ONLY WAY OUT IS NORTH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:11:47AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
ANYONE ELSE IN CHAMBERS LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS AGENDA ITEM?
WE HAVE NO ONE ELSE ON LINE.
THANK YOU.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3, CM 21-71874.
11:12:09AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT WAS CONTINUED.
11:12:12AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 4, FILE NUMBER CM
22-76980.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:12:30AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST THE -- JUST TO SET THIS UP.
THIS JUST TO REMIND EVERYBODY, THIS WAS A MOTION BACK IN
NOVEMBER WAY BEFORE THE CAMPAIGNS -- AT LEAST MY CAMPAIGN
STARTED.
I HAD A LONG CONVERSATION WITH THE PBA, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE OF THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
I TALKED TO POLICE OFFICERS ON THE STREET.
ASKED THEM WHAT THEY NEED.
THE CONSENSUS IS WE NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS.
AND NUMBER I HAVE BEEN GIVEN CONSISTENTLY IS 200 BECAUSE
WHAT THE CITY USED TO HAVE.
ANYWAY THE POLICE CHIEF AND PBA ARE HERE TO COMMENT ON IT.
THANK YOU.
11:13:09AM >>LEE BERCAW:
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
I WILL SPARE MY INTRODUCTION AGAIN FOR THE SIXTH TIME.
BUT THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BEFORE YOU TODAY
TO DISCUSS SAFETY, CRIME RATES AND NUMBERS.
NOTHING MORE THAN I AM THAN OPEN.
AS SOON AS I HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY THERE IS A CONCERN OF
A RFP.
I WANT TO STOP IT AND HEAR IT AND I APPRECIATE YOUR
FEEDBACK, THE OFFICERS' FEEDBACK, THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE
UNION.
I FEEL THAT WORKING TOGETHER IS THE BEST THINGS TO GET
THINGS DONE.
WHEN YOU APPROVED MY APPOINTMENT TO THIS POSITION AND
ENTRUSTED ME TO THIS ROLE, I ENSURED YOU I WOULD WORK TO
MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE RIGHT FOR OUR RESIDENTS, OUR
OFFICERS, AND OUR VISITORS.
AND STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY SEVERAL MONTHS LATER LOOKING TO
REASSURE YOU ALL THE EXACT SAME THING.
I AM VERY PROUD OF OUR OFFICERS AND THE HARD WORK THEY HAVE
DONE.
I AM PROUD OF OUR COMMUNITY FOR STEPPING UP.
OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, I SEE COMMUNITIES STEP ON
VIOLENT TEAM AND GIVING US TIPS I HAVEN'T SEEN IN SOME
WHILE.
I AM PROUD OF THE RELATIONSHIPS WE HAVE WITH OTHER
STAKEHOLDERS WHETHER IT IS THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, YOU NAME
IT.
TEMPLE TERRACE.
THE OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT FROM THIS COMMUNITY AND OTHER LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AND STAKEHOLDER IS OVERWHELMING, TO SAY
THE LEAST FROM BEING IN THIS ROLE.
I WOULD LIKE TO START OFF BY GIVING YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF
WHERE WE STAND IN TERMS OF VACANCIES AT THE TAMPA POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
SO OUR DEPARTMENT HAS 984 AUTHORIZED OFFICERS.
WE CURRENTLY HAVE 45 VACANCIES WHICH IS LESS THAN A 5%
VACANCY RATE.
WE WILL BE HIRING 31 OFFICERS IN LESS THAN ONE MONTH ON
MARCH 31.
AND I BELIEVE YOU HAVE INVITATIONS TO THAT SWEARING-IN
CEREMONY.
AFTER MARCH 21, THAT WILL LEAVE US WITH 14 VACANCIES.
SPEAKING WITH CAPTAIN HILL, THE LAST TIME WE CAN
RECALL HAVING LESS THAN 14 VACANCIES WAS FIVE YEARS AGO.
WE ARE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AS FAR AS FILLING OUR
VACANCIES.
THIS NUMBER DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE 123 RESERVE
OFFICERS THAT WE HAVE THAT ASSIST US WITH SPECIAL EVENTS.
JUST THEIR SUPPORT IS OVERWHELMING, YOU MAY NOT KNOW THAT MY
CAREER STARTED AS A RESERVE OFFICER.
I GET HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE FOR OUR AGENCY.
THE AUTHORIZED STRENGTH OF 984.
27% OR 700ISH OF OFFICERS ON THE FRONT LINES ASSIGNED TO THE
DISTRICTS.
THE REMAINING OF THOSE ADMINISTERS, 275 OR ROUGHLY 28% YOU
WILL FIND AS DETECTIVES INVESTIGATING HOMICIDES, SEX CRIMES,
AND YOU HAVE SEEN SEVERAL OF OUR OFFICERS FROM OUR MAJOR
CRIME BUREAU DETECTIVES.
SHIFT COMMANDERS, LIEUTENANTS, OFFICERS THAT DO OUR LARGE
SCALE EVENT PLANNING.
YOU KNOW WE HAVE A PLETHORA OF LARGE SCALE EVENTS.
WITH WE HAVE ONE THIS WEEKEND.
THE GASPARILLA DISTANCE CLASSIC.
YOU NAME WHAT THOSE OFFICERS ARE DOING TO ASSIST.
OUR CITIES IS 176 SQUARE MILES.
ACTUALLY A VERY LARGE CITY.
WE HAVE A GOAL OF EIGHT MINUTES TO RESPOND TO THE PRIORITY 1
CALLS.
AND 12 MINUTES TO RESPOND TO OUR PRIORITY 2 CALLS.
OUR AVERAGE TIME LAST YEAR FOR PRIORITY 1 CALL WAS ROUGHLY
FOUR AND A HALF MINUTES.
FOR A PRIORITY 2 CALL, FIVE AND A HALF MINUTES, SO WELL BELOW
OUR GOALS.
EVERY OFFICER IS ASSIGNED TO THAT ZONE.
THEY THINK OF THAT ZONE THEIR HOME, BASE, AREA WHEN THEY ARE
AVAILABLE THEY PATROL, BUT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT
THEY CAN SAY IN THAT ZONE.
THEY CAN BACK UP THEIR ZONE PARTNER.
COUNCILMAN GUDES MAY RECALL THAT.
ADJOINING ZONE.
YOU MAY BE IN THAT ZONE.
WHILE THEY ARE ASSIGNED ZONE, THEIR ZONE IS THEIR HOME BASE
AND MAY ASSIST WITH OTHER THINGS OUTSIDE OF THAT ZONE.
AT THE HEIGHT OF OUR ALLOTTED PERSONNEL COUNT THAT I CAN
CALL IT AND I WENT BACK AND DID HISTORICAL BACK TO
PAM IORIO'S DAY, I COULD FIND AN AVERAGE OF 996 OFFICERS.
A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR IN THERE JUST OVER 1,000.
1020.
AND THIS WAS A OVERHIRE FOR THE YEAR.
BUT CONSISTENTLY DURING THAT ADMINISTRATION ROUGHLY 996.
SO TODAY'S TOTAL OF 984 IS NOT FAR FROM THAT NUMBER AND WE
PRODUCED TECHNOLOGY MAKE OUR POLICING MORE DIGITAL FOR THE
REMAINING OF THE OFFICERS.
THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT IS GROWING ALONG WITH THE CITY
AND I AM COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH YOU ALL, UNION,
ADMINISTRATION, CFO TO GROW IN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.
WE ARE LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE.
I AM WORKING WITH ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS TO COME UP -- TO FIND
OUT WHERE OUR GAPS ARE IN OUR PRO -- PROJECTION WITH GROWTH.
SOMETHING TO BRING FORWARD WITH THE BUDGET PROCESS BECAUSE
OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL COST MONEY.
I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT WE CONTINUE TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF
OUR RESIDENTS NOW.
YOU RECALL, WE PUBLISHED A DECREASE OF 3% IN VIOLENT CRIMES
AND DECREASE IN CALLS OF SERVICE LAST YEAR 2.4%.
OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, WE ARE DOWN ALMOST 23% IN CALLS
PER -- CALLS FOR SERVICE.
I WENT TO THE MAJOR CHIEFS CONFERENCE IN D.C.
THEY DID THAT TWO WEEKS AGO.
THEY DID A SURVEY OF THE MAJOR CITIES.
THE 2022 DATA OF VIOLENT CRIME.
I WAS PROUD TO SAY OUR CITY IS ONE OF THE LOWEST IN VIOLENT
CRIME RATES.
I HAVE A CHART I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU AND I WILL PUT IT UP
ON THE ELMO HERE.
ALL RIGHT, SO THERE ARE 16 SIMILAR POPULATION CITIES TO THE
CITY OF TAMPA.
THERE ARE ACTUALLY 18.
I DID EVERY CITY UNDER 450,000 IN POPULATION.
THAT'S WHERE WE GOT THOSE NUMBERS.
THE OTHER TWO WE DIDN'T WANT TO SQUEEZE ON HERE IS SALT LAKE
CITY AND TULSA.
AND OUT OF ALL THOSE CITIES, WE ARE THE SECOND LOWEST IN
TOTAL --
11:20:03AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
CHIEF, CAN YOU PLEASE PUT THAT DOWN.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.
SCALE THAT DOWN SO THE WHOLE FRAME CAN BE SEEN.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU
LITTLE BIT MORE.
11:20:16AM >> HOW IS THAT?
GOOD?
11:20:19AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES, SIR.
11:20:20AM >> ALL RIGHT.
SO THE SECOND LOWEST IN VIOLENT CRIME CAPITA WHICH IS
OUTSTANDING.
THE HARD WORK OF ALL OF THE OFFICERS.
AND YOU MAY RECALL WHEN I WAS BACK HERE EARLY IN JANUARY, WE
HAD SOME LARGE-SCALE POLICE DEPARTMENTS COME TO SPEAK TO US
OF VIOLENT CRIME AND WHAT WE ARE DOING.
WE HAD LAPD, NEW YORK, CHICAGO, PHILADELPHIA WAS HERE.
NEW ORLEANS WAS HERE, DOJ-BGA CONFERENCE ON BEST SCALE
PRACTICES AND LARGE SCALE EVENTS AND NOTHING BUT PRAISE OF
SOME OF THE THINGS WE DO HERE AND THE SUCCESS THAT WE HAVE.
I WILL TRULY TELL YOU AND I BELIEVE IT IS OUR RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE COMMUNITY AND OUR COMMUNITY POLICING.
IT CAN ALWAYS BE IMPROVED, BUT THE OUT OF SUPPORT IN THE
CITY IS INCREDIBLE AND I CREDIT THE OFFICERS' HARD WORK AND
OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY FOR THAT REDUCTION.
11:21:17AM >> WHEN IT COMES TO THE CRIME FIGHT, I FEEL WE ARE ON THE
RIGHT TRACK.
WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED A NUMBER OF ISSUES IN TAMPA
COMMUNITY POLICING AND OUTREACH EFFORTS DISCUSS WITH YOU
BEFORE.
AND ANY QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THOSE, I WILL BE GLAD TO ANSWER.
WE ARE ALSO WORKING WITH OUR LOCAL BUSINESSES TO ENSURE THAT
THE PUBLIC SPACES ARE SECURE AND TO EDUCATE THEM ON THE PEST
PRACTICES AND PROTECTING THEIR PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW AS WELL EVERYBODY ELSE WITH THE AMOUNT OF TERRORISM
AND VIOLENT CRIME THAT IS COMING ACROSS THE NATION EVER
SINCE 911, THAT IS A MAJOR PART OF OUR POLICE WORK.
I AM CONFIDENT THAT OUR EFFORTS HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE
TO SEE A SUCCESSFUL REDUCTION IN VIOLENT CREAM.
JUST THIS YEAR ALONE, OUR HOMICIDES ARE ALREADY DOWN 50%.
SO THE HARD WORK IS PAYING OFF.
I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF
THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT IN
PRIORITIZING THE SAFETY OF OUR CITY.
THANK YOU.
I AM AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
11:22:23AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, MANISCALCO AND CARLSON.
11:22:26AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SOME COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY BLACK
COMMUNITIES, THEY SAY -- THEY ARE TIRED NOW.
AND THEY WANT CRIME TO STOP.
THEY DON'T WANT CRIME IN THEIR COMMUNITY.
YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO HOLLER ABOUT THE POLICE.
BUT VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES, THEY WANT
TO SEE THE POLICE.
11:22:46AM >> YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT.
AT THE MLK PARADE.
PEOPLE I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW CAME UP TO ME, THANK ME AND SAID
WE WANT YOU HERE.
WE APPRECIATE YOU HERE.
AND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS NOT JUST YOU, IT IS THE COMMUNITY
THAT HAS DONE NOTHING BUT SAY THE EXACT SAME THING.
11:23:02AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO I LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS -- I WAS THERE
BEFORE LEE WAS THERE.
HE IS ABOUT RIGHT.
ALWAYS ABOUT 1,000-MAN DEPARTMENT.
BUT THE CITY HAS GROWN LEAPS AND BOUNDS.
SO PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE IT, BUT WE NEED TO LOOK AT
THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS THAT WE HAVE.
WE MAY HAVE ZONES, BUT WHEN MAJOR CRIMES HAPPEN, THOSE
OFFICERS ARE TAKEN OUT OF THE ZONES OR THE WHOLE SQUAD MAY
BE WORKING A CALL.
AND PEOPLE CALL AND SAY WHERE IS THE POLICE.
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.
ALTHOUGH KNOW IS I DON'T HAVE ANY POLICE SERVICE.
YOU MAY NEED -- PUT IN THE PRESENTATION AND LOOK AT THE
NUMBERS.
GO FROM THIS PER CAPITA, SO FORTH AND SO ON, WE HAVE TO LOOK
BEYOND THAT AND SEE HOW THE CITY HAS GREEN.
LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY WITH DENSE AND MORE POPULATION IN
AREAS AND MAY NEED TO HAVE EACH DISTRICT.
LEVELED OUT IN EACH DISTRICT BUT DISTRICT THREE MAY NEED
MORE OFFICERS AND DISTRICT ONE MAY NEED MORE OFFICERS.
AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT STUDIES AND CREAM IN THOSE AREAS.
PEOPLE MAY NOT LIKE -- IS PUTTING ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
BUT FOLKS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
THEY WANT TO SEE POLICE.
THEY WANT TO SEE.
THEY WANT TO SEE.
THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING.
AND LOOK AT THE MANPOWER THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENT AS FAR
AS, AGAIN, NOBODY WANTS TO TALK OF GANG VIOLENCE BUT WE HAVE
WHAT I CALL IT GANGS -- DON'T HAVE THE L.A. TYPE GANGS, BUT
WE HAVE GANGS IN THE CITY.
WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE WHAT IT IS.
EVEN POLK COUNTY IS GOING WITH A GANG TASK FORCE.
I AM BEING REALISTIC.
I TALKED TO EVERY CHIEF TO SAY WE NEED SOME KIND OF GANG
TASK FORCE.
WE HAD IT A LONG, LONG TIME AGO.
OFFICERS FAMILIAR WITH THAT COMMUNITY HAVING THEM ON THE
TASK FORCE.
THE SHERIFF HAS DONE THINGS THAT CAN CUT DOWN THEIR GANG
VIOLENCE.
NOT LIKE WHAT YOU SEE IN L.A., BUT THE SMALL STUFF THAT IS
BIG.
GETTING A SQUAD THAT IS FOCUSED ON THAT AND THE PARTNERS TO
FOCUS AND HELP US WITH THE EFFORT.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STRONG EFFORT.
PEOPLE TIRED WITH FOLKS ON THE CORNER.
YES A RIGHT TO BE ON CERTAIN CORNERS BUT WE CAN'T BE THERE
ALL DAY DOING THINGS WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING.
I LOOK LAKE AVENUE.
I GET SICK OF LAKE AVENUE AND THE DISTRICT IS RIGHT THERE.
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT LAKE AVENUE.
I AM GOING TO WRITE SOMETHING UP TO THE CHIEF AND I HAVE A
PLAN.
I WAS GLAD FOR HIM TO COME TELL ME THAT.
BECAUSE I SEE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I WAS PROUD OF HIM TO COME TO MEET OTHER FOLKS AND SAY, HEY,
WE HEAR YOU.
WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND OPERATIONAL PLAN FOR
LAKE AVENUE.
WE HAVE CRA DOLLARS TO SPRAY THOSE SIDEWALKS DOWN.
PUT THINGS ON THOSE RIGHT-OF-WAYS.
WE HAVE MONEY TO DO IT.
CLEAN IT UP.
BUY PROPERTY ALONG LAKE AVENUE.
DO PROPERTY SO WE CAN CONTROL IT.
THINGS ARE AROUND THAT ARE GOOD.
WHEN THINGS ARE DIRTY, THEY WILL HANG AROUND DIRTY THINGS.
WE WILL LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE EFFORTS AND HELP SOME OF THOSE
POCKET AREAS.
IN OUR AREA WE TREED TO CLEAN UP 29th AND LAKE.
IT IS STARTING TO GET BETTER.
NOW IT IS GETTING BACK TO THE SAME WAY.
CLEAN THAT UP AND PAINT BUILDINGS.
I HAVE SEVERAL VACANT LOTS.
NOT ALL A POLICE ISSUE, BUT SOME OF IT, GETTING WITH THE CRA
WE HAVE TO FIEND OTHER PARTNERS TO CLEAN UP THE AREA TO MAKE
THEM BETTER AND THAT CRIME WILL GO AWAY.
IT WILL GO AWAY.
11:26:49AM >> I I AGREE HE WITH YOU 100%.
WE COULDN'T BE MORE ON THE SAME PAGE.
THE BASIC PURPOSE OF POLICE IS TO PRESENT CRIME, NOT RESPOND
TO CRIME.
AND ALSO PREVENT DISORDER.
AND A LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS DISORDER AND WE
DO THAT WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY.
THE GANG VIOLENCE -- WE DO WEEKLY MEET WITH THE SHERIFF'S
OFFICE ON GANG VIOLENCE.
THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS IN THE POPULATION ARE ALREADY THERE.
FINALIZING OUR PLAN AND PUTTING OUR PLAN TOGETHER.
LIKE REACHING US WITH THE PHONE CALL.
WE SPOKE BEFORE.
I THINK THE COMMENT YOU SAID IS I AM GLAD YOU REACHED OUT
AND THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK AND THAT IS WHAT
I'M HERE FOR.
TO WORK.
11:27:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU WITH THE TOW TRUCK.
I GOT SO MANY CALLS AND GLAD THAT YOU SAW THERE WAS A
PROBLEM AND PULLED THAT RFP.
WE APPRECIATE CREATE YOU FOR DOING THAT.
11:27:47AM >> THANK YOU.
11:27:48AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU, SIR.
11:27:50AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
11:27:51AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO I THINK IT WAS IN 1987, THE MILLAGE
INCREASE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA WAS THERE.
THE MILLAGE WAS INCREASED IN ORDER TO HIRE MORE POLICE
OFFICERS.
I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER.
I THINK THAT IS WHAT IT WAS IN THE FREEMAN ADMINISTRATION.
MY CONCERN IS YOU SAID THAT WE HAVE X AMOUNT OF POLICE
OFFICERS THAT VIOLENT CRIMES ARE DOWN PER CAPITA AND
WHATNOT.
BUT IT IS THE MENTAL STRAIN OF THE JOB AND WHAT POLICE
OFFICERS -- NOT JUST PATROLLING A NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT POLICE
OFFICERS ARE LOOKED AT AS -- PEOPLE EXPECT THEM TO DO SO
MANY DIFFERENCE THINGS.
WE TALKED THIS BEFORE.
YOU ARE THE -- THE SOCIAL WORK ARE.
YOU ARE THE PERSON WRITING THE SPEEDING TICKET.
YOU ARE THE PERSON RESPONDING TO THE 911 CALL.
YOU ARE -- POLICE OFFICERS DO A LOT.
YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS AND WHY
POLICE OFFICERS RETIRE YOUNG.
THE STRAIN PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY ON 9 BODY IS TREMENDOUS.
AND WE WANT OUR OFFICERS TO BE ALWAYS SHARP.
THEY ARE WORKING THESE 12-HOUR SHIFT.
A QUIET SHIFT.
I HAVE DONE RIDE-ALONGS WHERE NOTHING HAPPENS AND
RIDE-ALONGS WHAT YOU SEE ON TV, IT IS CRAZY.
A CONTINUOUS FOR THE CITY IS ADEQUATELY SERVICED.
ENOUGH OFFICERS FOR RESPONSIVE 911 TIMES AND NOT WAITING
FOREVER TO GET THE OFFICER OUT THERE AND SPREAD TOO THIN.
THAT IS MY CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE HIRE MORE
OFFICERS?
DO WE NEED MORE OFFICERS GRADUALLY COMING IN EVERY YEAR,
EVERY SIX MONTHS HIRING AT A QUICKER PACE BECAUSE NOT JUST
HIRING BUT TRAINING THE OFFICERS AND THEN THEY ARE ARE THE.
MY CONCERN AS TAMPA GROWS AND THE POPULATION INCREASES,
DENSITY AND MULTIFAMILY AND SO MANY PEOPLE MOVING IN.
DENSITY.
DENSITY.
SO MUCH GROWTH.
DO WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH POLICE AND FIRE THAT WE ARE
ADEQUATELY SERVICING THE AREA.
THAT IS MY CONCERN.
A MATTER IF WE NEED TO HIRE MORE OFFICERS.
YOU TONIGHT WANT TO OVERWORK INDIVIDUALS.
THEY CRACK OR SUFFER PSYCHOLOGICALLY.
WE NEED MORE OFFICERS AND HOW DO WE GET THERE AND WHAT IS
THAT NUMBER.
11:30:19AM >> OUR CONCERNS AS WELL.
WHY WE ARE LOOKING INTO THAT AND WORKING WITH THE UNION AND
HERE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.
RIGHT NOW WE ARE AT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE OF 2.4 BUT THE CITY
IS GROWING.
WE ARE AT A POINT OPTIMIZING STAFFING LEVEL.
YOU RECALL AFTER THIS CLASS, WE WILL HAVE 15 VACANCIES.
WE ARE AT THAT POINT.
WE ARE IN THAT OPT -- OPTIMIZATION AND HOW MANY OFFICERS WE
CAN PUT IN OUR PROPOSAL AND WE ARE WORKING CLOSELY ON.
AND TAKE A WHILE TO TRAIN.
OFFICERS ON THE STREET.
RIGHT NOW 46 VACANCIES.
THEY DON'T FEEL THAT UNTIL SIX MONTHS LATER FOR THAT OFFICER
TO FINISH THAT TRAINING.
UNTIL WE HIRE THEM AND GET THEM ON THE STREET ON THEIR OWN,
A SIX-MONTH THING.
AND WE ARE MAKING UP WITH THAT WITH THE PANDEMIC AND THE
GROWTH.
AND CAPTAIN HILL WILL TELL US THAT I HAVE HER IN MY OFFICE
ONCE A WEEK TO INCREASE THE NUMBERS OF WHAT WE ARE GOING TO
HIRE AND HOW WE CAN HIRE MORE CLASSES.
I HAVE A PROPOSAL I'M WORKING WITH THAT AND ALSO ON A
OVERHIRE.
THOSE THINGS ARE IN THE WORKS BUT ON THE SAME PAGE.
11:31:36AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND SOMETHING THAT
COUNCILMAN GUDES MENTIONED.
CERTAIN COMMUNITIES WILL SAY I AM GLAD YOU ARE HERE.
THANK YOU AT THE MLK PARADE.
WE WANT CREAM TO GO GO AWAY.
WHEN WE HAVE MORE OFFICERS.
A BIGGER POLICE PRESENCE.
I SAY COMMUNITY POLICING.
I BRING THAT UP BECAUSE ONE OF MY FRIEND'S FATHER IS A
RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FROM ANOTHER COUNTY AND HE
SAID SOMETHING TO ME SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
HE SAID I NEVER HAD TO DRAW MY GUN FOR ONE TIME.
SERVED FOR DECADES.
TOTAL CAREER 40 YEARS.
AS AN OFFICER ON THE STREET 20 YEARS.
HE SAID PAUSE I GOT TO KNOW -- I WALKED THE BEAT AND MY AREA
I KNEW EVERY BUSINESS OWNER AND KNEW WHO LIVED WHERE AND
WHAT, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, WHATEVER.
I KNEW EVERYBODY AND THEY KNEW ME ON A FIRST-NAME BASIS.
DURING THE '60s AND '70s.
DIFFERENT TIMES POLITICAL CLIMATES WERE DIFFERENT AND
WHATNOT.
THAT IS WHAT I LIKE TO SEE.
PUT MORE OFFICERS -- PEOPLE SAY I WANT TO GET RID OF CRIME.
NOT THAT YOU DON'T DO IT.
NATIONAL NIGHT OUT TO GOING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING.
PD IS OUT THERE.
IF THEY SAY I NEED HELP, I CAN GO TO THEM.
NOT LIKE I AM -- EVEN I PANIC BECAUSE SOMETIMES I SPEED,
WHATEVER.
BUT THE THING IS THE POLICE ARE THERE TO HELP.
BUT WE NEED TO -- WE NEED TO CHANGE THE MIND SET AND BUILD
BETTER RELATIONSHIPS.
AGAIN WHEN THE OFFICER -- WHEN WE HAVE ENOUGH OFFICERS WHO
ARE MENTALLY ON THEIR GAME.
IT IS STRESSFUL.
ONE 12-HOUR SHIFT AND I CAN'T IMAGINE AFTER -- AGAIN,
WITNESSING WHAT I AM SEEING IN RIDE-ALONGS AND OTHER
OFFICERS, A LOT TO TAKE IN AND JUST A DAY'S WORK.
A BROADER DISCUSSION, BUT I WANTED TO SAY THAT.
11:33:33AM >>LEE BERCAW:
A GREAT POINT YOUR PHILOSOPHY IN JANUARY 6
THAT WAS ENHANCED COMMUNITY POLICING.
NOT JUST THE EVENT BUT THE DAY TO DAY CALLS AND HOW YOU
INTERACT.
BRIANNA FOX FLORIDA USF COME IN AND DID AN OVERVIEW OF
COMMUNITY POLICING AND PROCEDURAL JUSTICE AND SHE GOES
AROUND THE NATION.
SHE GUEST TWO EXAMPLES.
EXAMPLES FROM OFFICERS HERE.
ONE AN OFFICER WHO WAS INVESTIGATING THE BURGLARY TOOK THE
TIME AFTER THE BURGLARY WITH THE OLD LADY THAT HAD HER HOUSE
BURGLARIZED.
FRONT PORCH.
WENT AND GOT A LIGHT BULB AND A LADDER AND CHANGED IT FOR
HER.
A NEIGHBORHOOD OFFICER LOOKING OUT FOR ME.
BRIANNA FOX HAD A STORY FOR SEMINOLE HEIGHTS AND THE OFFICER
CAME FOR WHATEVER REASON AND WAS NERVOUS.
LEFT WITH THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER AND SAID I AM THE
OFFICER WHO WORKED THE ZONE.
IF YOU NEED ANYTHING, CALL ME.
BEFORE LEAVING STAYED IN THE BLOCK AND FINISHED HIS
PAPERWORK THERE.
THAT INTERACTION MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE, OH, I KNOW MY
NEIGHBORHOOD COP.
I HAVE THAT RELATIONSHIP.
THAT IS WHAT WE ARE PUSHING TO GET THAT OUT ON MOST CALLS
NOT JUST EVENTS WHERE PEOPLE SHOW UP THAT ALREADY LOVE US.
11:34:51AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:34:54AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:34:55AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES, A FEW THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO STAY FOR THE RECORD AS I HAVE FOR THE
LAST FOUR YEARS.
I SUPPORT THE HARD-WORKING MEN AND WOMEN OF THE POLICE FORCE
AND FIRE RESCUE FOR PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE.
I HAVEN'T ALWAYS AGREED WITH POLICIES THAT MAYORS AND
PREDECESSORS.
AND NOT FAIR TO CRITICIZE THEM ON POLICY VIEW.
A CRITICISM OF THE POLICY IS NOT A POLICY WHAT THEY ARE
DOING BECAUSE THEY ARE PUT IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE TO
IMPLEMENT IT.
I SHOULD SAY YOU HAVE BEEN INTERIM FOR A VERY SHORT TIME AND
WHAT I SAY IN A MINUTE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU OR YOUR
LOPE.
BRANDON FROM PBA WILL TALK ABOUT STAFFING IN A MINUTE AND I
WANT TO ADDRESS THAT AFTER HE FINISHES, BUT I THINK THERE IS
AN ISSUE WITH THE DATA.
I DIDN'T COME IN WITH ALL THE DATA AND I DIDN'T EXPECT TO
HAVE A DISCUSSION OF DATA.
DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ELECTION, A ROBUST
DISCUSSION.
A LOT OF CASES OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS WITH TOILET TO TAP,
TAMPA SCORECARD, OTHERS.
WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION IS SENSITIVE TO WHAT THEY CONSIDER
TO IT BE CRITICISM.
IF YOU ARE A COMPANY AND COMPANIES HAVE TO AGREE BY SEC
RULES AND GUIDELINES, YOU HAVE TO PRESENT IT IN A CERTAIN
WAY.
GOVERNMENTS, YOU CAN PRESENT SELECTED DATA BECAUSE NOT A
STANDARD FORM.
ON THINGS LIKE TAMPA SCORECARD EVEN THOUGH I GOT THE BEST
SCIENTISTS TO HELP WITH IT, THE ADMINISTRATION SQUASHED THE
NUMBERS THEY DIDN'T LIKE.
TOILET TO TAP.
THE ADMINISTRATION SQUASHED NUMBERS RELATED TO THAT THAT
THEY DIDN'T LIKE.
I CAN TELL YOU ON THIS DATA, I HAD CALLS FROM INSIDERS.
CALLS FROM INSIDE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
CALLS FROM POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE RETIRED.
I HAVE POLICE OFFICERS STOPPING ME ON THE STREET.
THEY STOP ME AND SHAKE MY HAND AND SAY THANK YOU FOR
SUPPORTING US.
THANK YOU FOR HELPING US GET THE TRUTH OUT.
THEY ARE SAYING THAT FIRST OF ALL THESE NUMBERS ARE
SELF-REPORTED AND THEY SAY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS HAVING THE
REPORTING DONE IN A WAY THAT DOWNSIZES THE NUMBERS TO MAKE
IT LOOK BETTER AND EVERY TIME THERE IS A CONCERN WHERE
SOMEBODY ON THE INSIDE SAY THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE IS UP AND
A PRESS RELEASE THAT SAYS VIOLENT CRIME IS DOWN.
THE MURDER RATE AND CRIME RATE IS UP.
AND SOMETHING THAT SAYS THE RATE AND THE AGGRAVATED ASSAULT
IS DOWN.
A LOT OF SUSPICION ABOUT THIS AND I DON'T THINK WE ARE GOING
TO RESOLVE THIS NOW.
I AM NOT TRYING TO GET INTO A BIG, LONG DISCUSSION.
BUT THE PUBLIC SEES RISING TIMES.
INSIDERS ARE TELLING ME RISING CRIMES.
NOT BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY IS WORKING HARD BUT SOME OF THE
OTHER POLICIES.
THE ANSWER I GET TO EVERY POLICE OFFICER ON THE STREET.
WE NEED MORE HELP AND SUPPORT.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE IS FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO BE
TRANSPARENT AND HONEST WITH THE NUMBERS.
IF THERE ARE SOME NUMBERS THAT LOOK GOOD, WE SHOULD
CELEBRATE THOSE.
THERE ARE SOME NUMBERS THAT LOOK BAD, LOOK AT THOSE AND
FIGURE OUT TO YOU WHO ADDRESS.
WE DEALT WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS.
BIKING WHILE BLACK AND RENTING WHILE BLACK CAME OUT.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND BE HONEST.
AT SOME POINT HAVE A THIRD PARTY COME IN AND AUDIT THE
NUMBERS THE WAY THEY ARE PUT AND AUDIT THE WAY THE INTERNAL
COUNT NUMBERS ARE BEING COUNTED.
I AM HEARING FEEDBACK FROM POLICE OFFICERS THEY ARE UPSET
TWO DIFFERENT SOFTWARE PACKAGES.
THEY SAYS IT REDUNDANT.
ADMIN BURDEN HAS GONE UP OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
BRANDON MAY ADDRESS THAT.
NOT ON YOU OR MAY NOT BE FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE
THIS ADMINISTRATION INHERITED THINGS THAT WERE CHANGED.
AT SOME POINT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND ADDRESS IT.
IF THE POLICE OFFICERS NEED HELP AND TELLING US AND PLEADING
WITH US THAT THEY NEED HELP AND SOMETHING IS GOING ON WE
NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADDRESS IT.
11:39:02AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN, BEFORE THE CHIEF SPEAKS.
I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO.
I AM NOT GOING TO THROW THE CHIEF UNDER THE BUS.
THAT IS A SIDEBAR.
I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ALLUDING TO AND I KNOW THE SYSTEM YOU
ARE TALKING ABOUT IT. IT HAS BEEN THERE SINCE CHIEF HOAG WAS
THERE.
I KNOW -- I NEVER BASHED THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN TERMS OF
WHAT HAPPENS OVER THERE.
I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HOW THE NUMBERS ARE
CALCULATED.
AND AGAIN, I CAN TALK IT THE CHIEF AND HE CAN GET BACK TO
YOU HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS.
I KNOW WHAT HIGH TEMPERATURE REFERRING TO.
I NEVER AGREED TO IT.
AND THE NUMBERS CAN BE SKEWED IN A WAY WHERE IT REDUCES --
WHEN YOU PACKAGE CERTAIN CRIMES AND ELEMENTS VERSUS THE CODE
AND ALL THAT -- THE CHIEF IS SMILING SO HE KNOW WHAT IS I AM
TALKING ABOUT.
A SIDEBAR NOTE AND HE CAN GET TO YOU ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO BLOW THAT UP IN THE AIR.
11:40:05AM >>BILL CARLSON:
TO GIVE YOU ONE EQUIVALENT OUTSIDE.
THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS OUR ECONOMIC NUMBERS ARE VERY LONG.
YOU LOOK AT IT, REGIONAL NUMBERS, AND BREAK DOWN TAMPA
VERSUS EVEN ST. PETE.
OUR NUMBERS LOOK TERRIBLE.
THE TOP SIX CITIES IN FLORIDA WERE 5th OUT OF 6th.
YOU SAID CHARLOTTE.
NOT CLOSE TO CHARLOTTE NOT MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND
WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE NUMBERS WE DO WELL AND BADLY TO
FIX THEM.
IF EVERYTHING IS HUNKY-DORY, SHOULDN'T BE A PERCEPTION OF
PUBLIC THEY ARE NOT SAFE.
NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE HARD-WORKING MEN AND WOMEN.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE STOPPING YOU, BUT STOPPING ME TO
PLEAD FOR HELP.
11:40:47AM >> COUPLE OF COMMENTS.
THE BAD NUMBERS.
I WILL GIVE YOU THAT.
AUTO BURGLARIES ARE OUT OF CONTROL.
GUNS ARE BEING STOLEN OUT OF CARS AND ARE IN THE WRONG HAND.
THE NUMBERS ARE UP.
OUR VIOLENT CRIME IS DOWN AND NOT A MISLEADING STAFF AND
BEFORE I EVEN SPEAK ON EVERYTHING, I AM CROSSCHECKING IT
THREE OR FOUR TIMES.
I HAD PEOPLE GOING CRAZY UNTIL 7:00 AT NIGHT TO MAKE SURE
THESE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE.
I WOULD NEVER COME UP HERE AND SPEAK ANYTHING INACCURATE.
IF I DID, THAT WOULD BE A BAD REFLECTION ON ME.
A BAD REFLECTION OF THE OFFICERS THAT DID THE HARD WORK
THERE.
I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT ANYTHING THAT I AM BRINGING IS GOING
TO BE ACCURATE.
I CAN AHIRE YOU IF THERE ARE BAD NUMBERS, WE WILL GIVE THEM
TO YOU.
11:41:34AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.
AUTO BURGLARY NUMBERS.
SHARE THE OTHER NUMBERS THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON AND IMPROVE.
SORRY TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.
11:41:43AM >>LEE BERCAW:
AUTO BURGLARIES IS A BIG AREA OF FOCUS FOR US.
ROBBERIES WERE UP SLIGHTLY.
AG ASSAULTS WERE DOWN.
THAT MADE OUR TOTAL DOWN.
OUR AUTO THEFT WAS UP.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN LATELY ON THE LATEST
TREND OF THE AUTO THEFT WITH THE HYUNDAIS AN KIAS WITH THE
CHALLENGE ON THERE TO STEAL.
CLEARWATER WAS PUTTING OUT THE OLD CLUB BACK IN THE '80s,
TALKING ABOUT THE '80s.
BRINGING SOMETHING BACK FROM THE '80s TO PREVENT THAT AUTO
THEFT.
SOME OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS AUTO THEFTS AND AUTO BURGLARY.
GETTING PEOPLE TO LOCK THEIR CARS AND TAKE THEIR GUNS OUT OF
THE CA ARE BECAUSE LEADS TO THE VIOLENT CRIME.
11:42:41AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
11:42:41AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
11:42:44AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU FOR COMING HERE TODAY.
I DO MONTHLY RIDE-ALONGS AND I ASK OFFICERS WHAT KIND OF
THINGS DO THEY NEED HELP WITH.
A LOT OF STUFF I AM WATCHING AND LISTENING TOO.
EVERY TIME I AM OUT THERE, SOMEONE ON THEIR SHIFT OUT
BEHAVIOR REASON THIS THEY ARE DOWN SOMETHING THERE.
MY QUESTION IS SOMETHING THAT HAVEN'T BEEN BROUGHT UP, WHAT
IS THE PROPORTION OF THOSE OFF THAT WERE DOWN FOR ROUTINE,
ILLNESS, FAMILY STUFF, VACATION.
WHERE WOULD WE BE IF WE HAD ENOUGH -- HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE
OFF AVERAGE ON A DAILY BASIS?
11:43:24AM >> HAVEN'T EVEN GOT TO THE SQUAD AND WE CAN START BEFORE
THAT AND TRAINING, TAKES SIX MONTHS OF TRAINING AT THE
MINIMUM.
AT THE TIME WE RAN THESE NUMBERS 34 INFIELD TRAINING NOT
ASSIGNED TO THE SQUAD.
AND 31 IN HOLDOVER.
65 THAT ARE NOT ASSIGNED AND CONSTANTLY TRAINING AND GOING
THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
TOP OF THAT, WHO IS OUT ON MILITARY OR LONG-TERM LIGHT DUTY.
THE LAST TIME WE DID THAT NUMBER WAS 14.
PEOPLE WITH TIME OFF, ANNUAL VACATION OR SICK DAY.
THOSE NUMBERS WILL COME IN.
SOMETHING THAT WE ARE CATCHING UP ON AND THE OFFICERS WILL
FEEL SOON.
THEY HAVE A CLASS EXIT -- WHEN IS IT EXITING?
NEXT MARCH, MAY?
BEGINNING IN MAY A CLASS IS EXIT SO AND START FEELING THAT.
I WILL GIVE YOU A QUICK ROUGH IDEA HOW WE ARE IMPROVING IN
THESE NUMBERS AND I PUT IT IN HERE.
FROM OUR SHIFT THAT -- AND HOW THINGS ARE LIKED UP AND
GROWING BECAUSE WE ARE MAKING UP FOR THAT PANDEMIC.
REMEMBER, WHEN WE WEREN'T ABLE TO HIRE.
START OF THIS SHIFT BIG IN 2022.
32 VACANCIES.
28 OFFICERS ON PROBATION.
THAT MEANS THEY ARE THIS TRAINING IN THE INHOUSE OR FIELD
TRAINING AND PHASE 554.
THAT IS 114.
19 OF THOSE VACANCIES ALMOST 50%.
LITTLE OVER 50%, I HELD OUTSIDE OF PATROL.
I DON'T -- AT MOST TIMES IN THE PAST WOULD GO TO A PAL.
TO GIVE YOU A PERSPECTIVE ON THAT.
IN 2021, VACANCIES, WE HAD 57 AND 26 P.O.s AT THAT POINT
PHASE 5 HAD 29.
WE ADDED IN 2021 TEN GRANT POSITIONS WITH THE C.O.P. GRANT.
AND TODAY WE ARE STARTING TO IF I WILL THOSE TEN OFFICERS.
AND LOOKING AT OTHER OFFICERS US BEING FISCALLY CONSERVE
FIVE.
A GRANT THAT WILL STAVE ME MONEY.
I CHECKED WITH CATHERINE HAYES.
I CAN APPLY FOR A GRANT AT THE SAME TIME AND GET ADDITIONAL
OFFICERS THROUGH THAT GRANT ASSUMING WE ARE AWARDED THAT
GRANT.
THAT NUMBER WAS 109 POSITIONS HELD A YEAR BEFORE FROM 114.
AND YOU GO BACK EVEN FARTHER IN 2020, 49 VACANCIES AND AT
THAT POINT, ALL OF THEM ARE IN PATROL.
WE DEFINITELY SEE THAT PATROL NEEDS TO BE THE FRONT LINES
AND HAVE THAT STAFFED AND THEY ARE FEELING THAT.
THE RESIDUAL OF TRAINING AND GETTING CAUGHT UP.
11:46:12AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU FEEL THAT ON A
DAY-TO-DAY BASIS EVEN WITH PEOPLE OUT, WE ARE STAFFED UP TO
WHERE WE NEED TO BE.
11:46:20AM >>LEE BERCAW:
I WOULD SAY -- AND I TALKED TO THE SUPERVISOR
ABOUT IT YESTERDAY, IF THERE IS NOT -- BECAUSE ALWAYS GOING
TO BE A SITUATION WHERE UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCE COMES IN.
SOMEBODY SICK THAT WAS NOT PLANNED FOR AND THEN ADJUSTMENTS
NEED TO BE MADE.
AND IF THAT LIEUTENANT ON THAT A SHIFT COMMANDER NEEDS TO
MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS.
ONE SQUAD AT 80% AND THE OTHER IS NOT.
THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE SOMEBODY AND TAKE SOMEONE OFF
OF SPECIALTY SQUAD.
AND WE HAD THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND WHAT THE SUPERVISOR ARE
BEING TOLD TO DO.
11:46:53AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
11:46:58AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
11:47:01AM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.
KNOW I KNOW WE HAVE MR. BARCLAY WAITING IN THE WINGS TO BE
SPEAKING AS WELL.
AND SOME THINGS THAT MAYBE MR. BARCLAY COULD BE SAYING, BUT
NUMBER ONE, THE PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN THAT WE TALKED
ABOUT BEFORE, COULD BE USED FOR TAMPA FIRE, BUT ALSO POLICE
FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE WHERE THE PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICE SITS
ARE IN POLICE AND FIRE AND HOW TO BUILD A FISCAL BRIDGE OF
HOW TO REMEDY THOSE AND PART OF WHAT THIS DISCUSS IS ABOUT.
ONE OF THE REASONS BROUGHT IN UP IN THE PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER
PLAN HAD A DISCUSSION OF THE REVENUE GIVEN TO THE CITY OF
TAMPA THROUGH SEVERAL REVENUE SOURCES.
CHIEF LEE, THE MILLAGE RATE AND WHAT PEOPLE WANT FROM POLICE
AND FIRE AND HAVE THAT KIND OF DISCUSSION AS ELECTED
OFFICIALS, RIGHT.
THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT IS PART
OF THAT PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN WHICH IS -- WE SEE, DO WE
NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS.
IT APPEARS WE WILL.
OR THAT WE DO.
HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST TO HIRE MORE POLICE OFFICERS
WITH PROPER TRAINING, ADVANCEMENT, ETC., ETC.
TALK OF IT WITH TAXPAYERS AND CONSTITUENTS IN THE CITY OF
TAMPA FOR THAT.
THAT GOES INTO THIS.
A DISCUSSION THAT WILL BE WELL TAKEN IN THE CITY OF TAMPA
AND WE SUPPORT OUR OFFICERS AND FIRE FIGHTERS.
I OFTEN TALK ABOUT THIS A LOT WHICH IS OFTEN OVER THE LAST
FEW YEARS, THERE ARE TIMES POLITICALLY WHEN CERTAIN
PROFESSIONS GET ATTACKED.
I BELIEVE RIGHT NOW IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, TEACHERS --
PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS ARE BEING ATTACKED.
I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT.
I BELIEVE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS PROFESSIONALLY, POLICE
OFFICERS HAVE BEEN ATTACKED POLITICALLY A LOT NATIONALLY AND
WHATNOT.
WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO REBUT THAT HERE IN THE CITY OF
TAMPA TO SUPPORT OUR POLICE, TO SUPPORT THE WORK THEY DO,
AND TO NOT GIVE INTO POLITICAL PRESSURE THAT I DON'T BELIEVE
AND I ALWAYS NOT BELIEVED REPRESENT THE HEART AROUND SOUL OF
TAMPA THAT SUPPORT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT.
SOME SAID ON THE DAIS INCLUDES COUNCILMAN GUDES THIS IS AN
ISSUE OF EQUITY.
IT IS.
BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHETHER EAST TAMPA, SULPHUR
SPRINGS, ETC.
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A PRODUCTION THAT YOU HAVE A LOT OF CRIME
THERE TERRIBLE.
MARCHES ON THE ISSUE OF EQUITY.
OUGHT TO HAVE HUGE ROBUST MARCHES.
THERE WAS ONE THAT I WAS AT AND OTHER COUNCILMEMBERS WERE AT
TO SAY NO TO THE VIOLENCE AND AS A MATTER OF EQUITY AND
SOCIAL JUSTICE.
I THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
BUT PART OF THAT IS SUPPORTING OUR POLICE OFFICERS AND THE
WORK THEY DO FUNDING THEM AND THE WORK THEY DO.
AND WE LEARN LOT ABOUT FIRE.
AND TAMPA IMPLEMENT.
AND WE MUST BUILD THE SUSTAINABLE AND SUSTAINABLE PLAN AND
WHEN WE DO THAT, WE WILL BRING THE GAP ANALYSIS BACK.
11:50:27AM >> BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, ANYONE ELSE?
11:50:39AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO AT LEAST HAVE
ITEM NUMBER 5 IN CASE WE -- WE TALK ABOUT --
11:50:51AM >> CAN I HAVE MY COMMENTS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ARE YOU SPEAKING FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
11:50:56AM >> HE IS ON AGENDA FOR THIS ITEM.
11:50:58AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
OKAY.
11:51:00AM >> BRANDON BARCLAY, PRESIDENT OF TAMPA PBA.
I CAN SAY IN ALL MY YEARS OF DEALING WITH PBA BUSINESS AND
SHERIFF OFFICE AND TPD, LEE BERCAW HAS BEEN FOR AND ABOVE
REPROACH.
HE STEPPED IN AS A TRAIN WRECK AND TRY TO TURN THIS SHIP
AROUND.
WE CAN'T PUBLICLY THANK HIM ENOUGH.
WE HOPE THAT HE PUTS IN FOR POLICE CHIEF.
I KNOW THAT IS DOWN THE ROAD AND I LOOK FORWARD TO STANDING
BESIDE HIM ON THE PODIUM IF HE DECIDES TO DO THAT.
THAT BEING SAID, I A AGREE WITH HIM ON ALMOST EVERYTHING
THAT HE SAID.
ONLY THING I DO DISAGREE ON IS THE STAFFING.
WHAT HE TOLD YOU, THE SAME AMOUNT OF OFFICERS AS PAM IORIO
WAS HERE.
THAT THE IS PROBLEM.
YOU GO BACK TEN YEARS OF 2012, WHAT DOWNTOWN TAMPA LOOKED
LIKE VERSUS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY.
THE SAME NUMBER OF COPS WORKING THOSE AREAS.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
PROVIDED THEM WITH NUMBERS THE OTHER DAY ABOUT STAFFING.
TEN-MAN SQUAD GIVE OR TAKE.
UNIFORMED PATROL.
SENT THEM THE NUMBERS THE OTHER DAY.
SEVEN SQUADS.
47 PEOPLE.
NO FOUGHT OF HIS OWN.
BUT WE ARE GIVING MONEY BACK.
LAST CONTRACT ENDED IN OCTOBER.
THE CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT GAVE BACK TO THE CITY OF TAMPA
$23 MILLION.
SO WE ARE NOT EVEN ASKING FOR AN INCREASE.
WE ARE SAYING SPEND THE MONEY THAT IS BEING BUDGETED AND ADD
COPS TO THE STREET.
WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE POLICE OFFICERS ON THE STREET.
I HAVE BEEN ARGUING THIS SINCE JOHN BENNETT WAS ASSISTANT
CHIEF.
AND THE MAYOR WAS CHIEF OF POLICE AT THE TIME.
WE HAVE BEEN BEGGING FOR THIS FOR YEARS.
I KNOW THAT CHIEF BERCAW SAYS HE IS WILLING TO WORK FOR IT.
WE WILL COME UP WITH NUMBERS TOGETHER.
BUT WE ARE CRITICALLY SHORT IN PATROL.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT PERCENTAGES AND DAZZLE EVERYBODY ALL DAY
WITH CRIME RATES.
I BELIEVE THAT 100% THAT THE CRIME RATES HE HAS TOLD YOU,
THE REDUCTIONS ARE ABSOLUTELY THE REAL NUMBERS.
I DON'T BELIEVE ANY FABRICATION OF THAT.
I THINK WE CAN DISAGREE ON SOME OF THE COMPUTER TRACKING FOR
CALLS OF SERVICE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK AT DIFFERENT DATA, DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT
WE ABSOLUTELY NEED UNIFORM PATROL.
ZERO REASON WE SHOULD HAVE A PATROL WITH ONE SUPERVISOR AND
FIVE OFFICERS WORKING THE STREET.
NO MATTER WHAT THAT REGION, SICK REMEMBER INJURED, WE NEED
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO STAFF THAT AND I BELIEVE
HE IS WILLING TO GET US THERE.
11:53:36AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN?
11:53:38AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
11:53:40AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
USED TO BE THE AVERAGE OFFICER ON A SQUAD
WAS, WHAT, NINE TO TEN?
FAT SQUAD?
11:53:50AM >> FULL SQUAD DEPENDING WHERE THE SQUAD IS BECAUSE SOME WERE
BIGGER THAN OTHERS AND TALKING OF DISTRICT THREE, SOME OF
THOSE SQUADS ARE BEEFED UP.
FULL SQUAD IS TEN AND REMEMBER HAVE ALL THE PEOPLE IN
TRAINING AND HAVE MILITARY, LONG-TERM --
11:54:06AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
BASICALLY IN ZONES.
AS BRANDON WAS SAYING, FILLING THE ZONE.
SOMEBODY CALLS OUT SICK, YOU HAVE TO KILL A ZONE OR BORROW
SOMEBODY.
11:54:20AM >>LEE BERCAW:
AGAIN, NO ZONE THAT WILL BE KILLED.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
NO ZONE THAT WILL BE KILLED AND BUFFERS TO SUPPLEMENT THOSE
ZONES AND WHAT I SPOKE TO OF THE SERGEANTS AND LIEUTENANTS
AND MAKING THAT DECISION.
A DECISION THAT A SUPERVISOR SOMETIMES MAKE A TOUGH
DECISION.
TAKE A BODY FROM A SQUAD THAT IS FULL.
AND MOVE IT ON TO A SQUAD THAT IS NOT.
AND THOSE ARE THE DECISIONS WE EXPECT OUR SUPERVISORS AND
LIEUTENANTS TO MAKE AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
11:54:49AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
TALK ABOUT THE $23 MILLION.
THE $23 MILLION THAT MAYBE THE ADMINISTRATION SAID THEY
WANTED EACH DEPARTMENT HEAD TO LOOK AT HOW THEY CAN CUT
MONEY HERE AND MONEY SOMEWHERE AND PUT BACK IN THE GENERAL
FUND?
OR JUST YOU BEING GRACIOUS AND GIVE $23 MILLION BACK.
11:55:05AM >>LEE BERCAW:
I DID NOT GET BACK ANY MONEY AT ALL.
11:55:08AM >> I AM GOING AFTER THE REPORT.
BUDGETED FOR TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
SPENT $23 MILLION LESS THAN WHAT WAS BUDGETED OVER THE
THREE-YEAR CONTRACT.
11:55:17AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THAT IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
11:55:21AM >>LEE BERCAW:
I AM NOT SURE OF THE NUMBERS HE HAS ON THAT.
ANY MONEY GIVEN BACK IS ON VACANCIES THAT WEREN'T FILLED
YET.
I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT REPORT.
OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS LOOKING AT THE BUDGET IN THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT, I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT
EVERY LAST DOLLAR IS SPENT ON NEEDS THAT THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT HAS.
WE ARE TALKING OF OPERATING.
11:55:41AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I REMEMBER WHEN THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE
AND BUDGET COMMITTEE SAID THERE WAS -- THERE WAS AN
ADDITIONAL OR UNUSED $5 MILLION.
AT ONE TIME I ASKED ABOUT THAT AND CHIEF BENEFIT SAID, NO,
IT WASN'T ACCURATE.
AND I DON'T KNOW.
I HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS.
I WILL HAVE MY STAFF LOOK AT THAT, BUT I THINK AT THIS
POINT, IF YOU ARE BUDGETED, I CAN UNDERSTAND.
IF YOU GOT -- GIVEN THE OFFICERS EVERYTHING THEY NEED AND
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SOMETIMES GIVE MONEY BACK TO THE COUNTY
WHEN HE FULFILLED ALL THE OBLIGATIONS AND KIND OF THE RIGHT
THING TO DO.
IF WE ARE SHORT STAFFED AND WE NEED AN OFFICER.
WE NEED TO UTILIZE THOSE OFFICERS.
MY OPINION.
11:56:21AM >>LEE BERCAW:
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% SPENDING THAT MONEY AND
GETTING THE OFFICERS AND GETTING OPTIMIZED LIKE I SAID
BEFORE AND REASSESSING WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE FROM THERE.
WHILE WE MAY NOT AGREE ON EVERYTHING, WE AGREE TO TALK AND
WORK OUT OUR DIFFERENCES.
AND MAKE A PLAN THAT WILL WORK FOR EVERYBODY.
11:56:39AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
AT LEAST SOMEBODY IS FOLLOWING DO THAT.
11:56:43AM >>LEE BERCAW:
THE OFFICERS ARE DEFINITELY MY MAIN CONCERN
AND TALKED OF MENTAL HEALTH, THE COMPASSION BREAKFAST THIS
MORNING.
ONE THING THAT OFFICER WELLNESS IS THE PRIORITY WITH THE
OFFICERS.
I JUST SENT A BUNCH OF OFFICERS -- I WANT TO SAY TEN OR 12
TO PEER COUNSELING GETTING CERTIFIED IN THAT TO HAVE A PEER
COUNSELOR THAT IS TRAINED AND REACHING OUT WITHOUT TALKING
TO SUPERVISORS AND THAT WAY WON'T HAVE TO WORRY WHAT IS THIS
GOING TO COME BACK.
11:57:13AM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION.
11:57:16AM >> WHAT HE IS SAYING, A LOT OF PIPES WE LOOK AT WHERE IS
THERE FAT TO SQUEEZE FROM ONE AREA AND MO OF IT TO ANOTHER
AREA.
ALL OF THE POSITIONS, BIKE HEALTH, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH,
REALTIME CENTER IS ALL OPERATED BY SWORN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
WE NEED THOSE PEOPLE.
I AM NOT SAYING WE NEED TO GET RID OF ANY OF THOSE PROGRAMS,
SINCE THOSE PROGRAMS WERE CREATED WE NEED TO ADD MORE PEOPLE
TO SUPPLEMENT.
THEY KEEP MISQUOTING AND SAY 200 SHORT.
WE ARE NOT 200 SHORT.
WE ARE CALLING FOR AN INCREASE.
WHEN WE SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS IT, HOPEFULLY THE NUMBERS WILL
WORK OUT.
BUT HE IS THE FIRST PERSON TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE THE
DISCUSSION IN THE TEN YEARS THAT WAS INVOLVED.
11:58:01AM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:58:03AM >>BILL CARLSON:
BRANDON, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NUMBER IS
THAT WE ARE SHORT?
AND I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO TALK -- BY THE WAY I SHOULD
BACK UP AND SAY THANK YOU -- AS BRANDON SAID THANK YOU TO
CHIEF BERCAW STEPPING IN THIS SITUATION AND WORKING WITH US
INTERACTIVELY AS YOU HAVE WITH HIM.
BUT BRANDON, THIS NUMBER, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- WHAT DO YOU
THINK THE NUMBER IS?
IF YOU WALKED RIGHT IN AND TALKING, WHAT IS THE NUMBER.
11:58:31AM >> I AM GOING TO ASK FOR 200.
I SAID IT PUBLICLY AND SAID IT TO MOST OF YOU ON THE
COUNCIL.
IF HE PROVIDES THE DATA THAT SAYS THE OTHERWISE, 120, THEN
LET'S START WITH 120.
11:58:46AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE THING YOU SAID TO ME ANYWAY -- AND OTHER
POLICE OFFICERS SAID IT TO ME -- THE ADMIN BURDEN, LESS TIME
FOR OFFICERS TO BE OUT ON THE FIELD.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS IN A SECOND?
11:58:59AM >> YES, A LOT OF TIMES AND EVEN COUNCILMAN GUDES CAN VERIFY
THIS, WAY LESS ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF THAT TOOK PLACE WHEN HE
WAS AN OFFICER VERSUS NOW.
ALL THESE DIFFERENT DATABASES TO GO IN AND RUN THING.
EVERYTHING IS ELECTRONIC AND TAKES MORE TIME THAN IS IT DID
15, 20 YEARS AGO.
AGAIN, THEY SAID WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF
OFFICERS.
THE REASON OUR CRIME RATE.

11:59:23AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WANT TO ASK THE CHIEF OR MAYBE BOTH OF
YOU, WE'RE GOING TO START GOING THROUGH BUDGET SOON, USUALLY
BY MARCH OR APRIL, THE CHIEF OF STAFF STARTS BRIEFING US ON
SOME OF THE IDEAS FOR THE BUDGET, EVEN THOUGH THE FINAL
BUDGET COMES MUCH LATER.
BUT IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY CHIEF OF STAFF, MEANING A COUPLE
OF WEEKS AGO, THE AVERAGE COST PER POLICE OFFICER IS
$100,000 A YEAR.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ALL IN BENEFITS AND EVERYTHING BUT HE
KIND OF THREW OUT THAT NUMBER.
IF WE HIRE 200, THAT'S ABOUT 20 MILLION A YEAR.
SO THE QUESTION TO CHIEF BERCAW, WHEN COULD YOU THINK YOU
COULD REASONABLY HAVE A NUMBER TO COME BACK TO US ON?
BECAUSE WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT THE NUMBERS OF
PEOPLE AND THE COST, AND THEN IF YOU HAD TO PRIORITIZE, ANY
IDEA WHERE THE MONEY WOULD COME FROM?
AND IF YOU HAD TO PRIORITIZE, IF YOU HAD AN EXTRA BIG CHUNK
OF MONEY, WOULD YOU PUT IT ALL IN PEOPLE OR WOULD YOU PUT IT
IN SOMETHING ELSE ALSO?
12:00:25PM >> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION, BUT I THINK WE'RE
PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.
I NEED TO OPTIMIZE.
I NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT.
I NEED TO ASSESS EVERYTHING.
IF I THROW YOU OUT A NUMBER OF WHATEVER, IT'S NOT FAIR TO

SAY THAT WITHOUT GETTING THE DATA, THE BACKUP.
WE HAVE TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF THE MONEY.
AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT COPS GRANTS.
IF I FIND THAT I NEED OFFICERS I CAN SAVE THE CITY MONEY AND
USE FEDERAL DOLLARS, THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.
BUT I HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THAT POINT YET.
12:00:53PM >>BILL CARLSON:
MY FIRST QUESTION WAS, WHEN DO YOU THINK YOU
MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE A PRELIMINARY NUMBER?
12:00:59PM >> IT'S DEFINITELY BEFORE BUDGET.
IF THERE IS A BUDGET INCREASE THAT WILL BE PART OF IT.
I DON'T HAVE A TIME FOR YOU.
WE'RE AT THE POINT NOW WHERE WE ARE OPTIMIZING.
WHATEVER WE WILL DO WILL BE IN BEFORE THE BUDGET.
12:01:11PM >>BILL CARLSON:
MAYBE THIS IS TOO TECHNICAL.
WHEN YOU START WITH ADMINISTRATION, THIS ADMINISTRATION OR
OTHER, DOES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT START WITH EXACTLY THE
SAME BUDGET OR DO YOU GET LIKE WHATEVER PERCENTAGE INCREASE
THE AD VALOREM IS OR DO YOU JUST START WITH WHAT YOU NEED
AND KIND OF ZERO IT OUT AND START OVER AGAIN?
12:01:32PM >> I'VE NEVER DONE IT THAT WAY.
I'VE ALWAYS KEPT THE RED HAT AND ASKED FOR MORE.
THE LAST TIME I WAS PART OF THE PROCESS, EVERYTHING WE ASKED
FOR THE MAYOR GAVE US AND DIDN'T EVEN QUESTION.
THAT WAS MY FIRST TIME IN THAT PROCESS, AND THE FACT THAT
EVERYTHING WE ASKED FOR AS OUR PRIORITIES WE GOT LAST YEAR

WAS AMAZING TO ME.
12:01:51PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I SHOULD SAY ALSO CITY COUNCIL HAS SUPPORTED
EVERYTHING THE MAYOR HAS PROPOSED.
12:01:56PM >> ABSOLUTELY.
12:01:56PM >>BILL CARLSON:
ANYWAY --
12:01:58PM >> ASSUMING IT WAS A UNANIMOUS VOTE.
12:01:59PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YEAH, I THINK ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN.
THE ONLY OTHER THING IS SHOULD WE PUT -- I SHOULD SAY THIS.
SOME PEOPLE AROUND THE MAYOR HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT -- I
VOTED AGAINST THE OVERALL BUDGET, BUT THE OVERALL BUDGET IS
$1.9 BILLION, AND THERE'S A LOT OF FAT IN IT, WHICH I
OBJECTED TO.
ALSO OBJECTED TO NOT HAVING ROLL BACK AND NOT BEING FISCALLY
PRUDENT.
AS EVERYONE WILL TESTIFY, I FULLY SUPPORTED ALL THE
EXPENDITURES FOR THE POLICE, INCLUDING THE RAISE.
I ADVOCATED STRONGLY FOR IT AND VOTED FOR EVERY INDIVIDUAL
THING RELATED TO IT.
SOME PEOPLE AROUND THE ADMINISTRATION MISCHARACTERIZE THAT
WHICH I THINK IS NOT A GOOD THING TO DO BECAUSE IT CONFUSES
THE PUBLIC.
BUT IN TERMS OF GOING FORWARD, WHAT I'M SAYING PERSONALLY
AND I THINK MY COLLEAGUES AGREE IS WE JUST NEED TO BE A PART
OF A PROCESS SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND IT.
WE'RE OUT IN THE PUBLIC, AND WE CAN START TO SOCIALIZE IT

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES UP IN THE BUDGET, THEN HOPEFULLY
WE'LL HAVE CONSENSUS NOT JUST FROM CITY COUNCIL AND THE
ADMINISTRATION BUT ALSO FROM THE PUBLIC.
IF WE START THE PROCESS EARLY INSTEAD OF HITTING IN AUGUST
OR WHENEVER WITH A BIG PRESENTATION.
THANK YOU.
12:03:08PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
EXPLAIN TO ME, YOU SAID ABOUT THE
ADMINISTRATIVE SIDE.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR, I KNOW WHEN I CAME ON, COMPUTERS WAS NEW.
I COULD HIT A BUTTON, SAID WHATEVER.
IF I COULD DO A QUICK ON THE COMPUTER, WHAT'S NEW THAT
YOU'RE SAYING IS HINDERING THEM WITH ADMINISTRATIVE TYPE.
12:03:27PM >> I WOULDN'T SAY NECESSARILY HINDERING THEM.
PREVIOUSLY WHEN YOU WROTE A CRA, YOU TYPED UP A REPORT.
THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF POLICE DATABASES NOW THAT CAN BE USED
FOR LOOKING UP THINGS, LOOKING INTO PEOPLE, STUFF LIKE THAT.
WE'RE DOING MORE THOROUGH INVESTIGATIONS ON THE STREET THAN
WE WERE DOING 15 YEARS AGO.
THE GUYS AND GIRLS ON THE STREET ARE BORDER LINE DETECTIVES
INVESTIGATING THE CRIMES.
IT'S NOT JUST TAKE THE REPORT AND GO TO THE NEXT ONE.
YOU NEED TO LOOK INTO WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE AREA AROUND,
ARE THERE CAMERAS AROUND?
LIKE ALL OF THAT STUFF --
12:04:00PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SURVEY.

12:04:01PM >> EXACTLY.
YOU DO THE NEIGHBORHOOD SURVEY.
NOW THEY HAVE CAMERAS.
WHAT CAMERA SYSTEM?
NOW HAVE TO OPERATE THAT CAMERA SYSTEM.
IT'S MORE THAN JUST SHOWING UP TO THE CALL.
12:04:10PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THEY WANT THE OFFICERS TO DO A LITTLE BIT
EXTRA, PER SE, VERSUS GOING, TAKING THE CALL, GOING 10, 8,
GOING TO THE NEXT CALL.
BACK IN SERVICE.
10-7 --
12:04:23PM >> QUICK EXAMPLE OF THAT.
TALKING ABOUT THE SOFTWARE, WE GET IT.
AND WE ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE IS MADE IT WHERE SOME SYSTEMS
TALK TO OTHERS TO REPEAT DUPLICATE EFFORT.
THEN THE OTHER PART IS IT'S SITUATIONAL AWARENESS AND IT'S
REAL-TIME AND YOU NEED TO KNOW IT.
LIKE IF YOU ARE INVESTIGATING A SEX CRIME ACROSS THE STREET
AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT SITUATIONAL AWARENESS THAT A SEX
OFFENDER LIVES RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET AND MATCHES YOUR
DESCRIPTION, THEN YOU'RE NOT DOING YOUR JOB.
SO THAT'S THAT AWARENESS THAT WE NEED TO GIVE THE OFFICERS
TO HAVE.
AND TO STREAMLINE IT AND MAKE IT EASIER, WE'RE ALL ABOUT

THAT, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE COPS THAT HAVE THE INFORMATION
IN REAL-TIME.
12:05:04PM >> WE'RE NOT SAYING THE TECHNOLOGY IS BAD.
WE'RE SAYING IT EXISTS AND TAKES MORE TIME THAN IT TYPICALLY
WOULD HAVE TAKEN IN YEARS' PAST.
WE'RE NOT KNOCKING THE TECHNOLOGY, OBVIOUSLY.
12:05:13PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I JUST WANT TO GET A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING
WHAT THAT MEANT.
ALL RIGHT.
I GET IT.
I GET IT.
I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
THANK YOU, SIR.
12:05:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
12:05:23PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.
JUST REALLY QUICK, IF I MAY.
NUMBER ONE, I WANTED TO AGREE WHAT MR. BERCAW SAID, THE
INTERIM CHIEF.
YOU DO A GREAT JOB.
IF YOU WERE CHIEF, WITH THE INFORMATION I HAVE, I THINK YOU
DO A STELLAR JOB.
FOR WHATEVER THAT IS WORTH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
POTENTIALLY WE WERE HAVING THE PUBLIC SAFETY PLAN COMING
BACK TO US I THINK MARCH 16.
IF IT IS, I KNOW COUNCIL WILL DISCUSS IT TODAY AND THAT'S

FINE.
BUT IF IT DOES COME BACK TO US FOR THE FULL DISCUSSION ON
MARCH 16 WE CAN DISCUSS THIS.
IF I'M HEARING COUNCIL RIGHT, BY THE WAY, THERE IS A LOT OF
INTEREST IN BOTH POLICE AND FIRE.
I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION FOR IT TODAY BUT I WANT TO
EXPLORE IT IN THE NEXT WEEK.
WE MAY WANT TO DO THE MASTER PLAN ONE WEEK FOR POLICE AND
THE NEXT WEEK FOR FIRE BECAUSE BOTH MAY BE VERY ROBUST
DISCUSSIONS, AND I WOULD HATE TO SHORTCHANGE ONE AT THE
EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.
I MAY COME BACK WITH THAT NEXT WEEK.
I'LL TALK WITH THE STAFF, UNIONS, TPD ABOUT IT, ET CETERA,
JUST AS AN IDEA THERE.
12:06:28PM >> QUICK COMMENT.
MORE THAN HAPPY TO COME AND DO THAT.
BUT THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ALL HAVE, I'M GOING TO NEED MORE
THAN MARCH 16 IN DETAIL.
12:06:38PM >>LUIS VIERA:
ABSOLUTELY.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
THEY ARE VERY BIG THINGS.
WE CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT THE GRADUAL, IF THERE IS A NEED FOR
200 POLICE OFFICERS, AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS, A GRADUAL, 20
THIS YEAR, 20 NEXT YEAR, MAKING UP NUMBERS, WHATEVER IT MAY
BE.

IT WILL REQUIRE TOUGH CHOICES ON THE PART OF THIS CITY AND
CITY COUNCIL WITH REGARDS TO THE BUDGET AND REVENUE,
ET CETERA.
THINGS THAT I THINK WHEN WE EXPLAIN IT TO THE PEOPLE IN
TAMPA ARE NOT GOING TO BE TOUGH, BUT THERE ARE STILL STUFF
POLITICAL CHOICES TO MAKE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
12:07:08PM >> FOR THE RECORD, THERE'S 200 COPS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU WERE TO GIVE THEM TO ME, I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO
WITH THEM.
I NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S BEST TO PUT THAT NUMBER ON THERE
I THINK IS COMPLETELY UNFAIR.
12:07:19PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU.
12:07:23PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
CHIEF, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR STANDING HERE TODAY.
JUST FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE, RESERVE OFFICERS CANNOT
FILL IN FOR COPS ON THE BEAT.
THEY ARE THERE FOR SPECIAL EVENTS AND WHATNOT.
12:07:44PM >> IN A WAY.
THE MAJORITY OF THEM DO SPECIAL EVENTS.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT CLASSES OF THEM.
RESERVES ONE, TWO, AND THREE.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT IS, THEY COULD RIDE AND BE A
BACKUP WITH THE OFFICER IN THE CAR.
IF THEY ARE A RESERVE TWO, THEY COULD RIDE THEMSELVES IN A

CAR.
WHEN I WAS AN FTO AND I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBATIONARY OFFICER
AT THE TIME, I WOULD HAVE RESERVES COME AND RIDE WITH ME AND
THEN THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE OTHER OFFICERS FROM HAVING TO BACK
ME UP BECAUSE I ALREADY HAD MY BACKUP IN THE CAR.
YES, THEY CAN.
TO BE FAIR MAJORITY WORK SPECIAL EVENTS, SOME CAN WORK THE
OTHER ASSIGNMENTS.
12:08:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE THERE PLANS THROUGH ATTRITION?
I'M SURE WE HAVE RETIREES COMING UP SOON, PHYSICAL
DISABILITIES AND WHATNOT.
IS THAT PART OF THE PLAN OF HIRING NEW POLICE OFFICERS?
INSTEAD OF JUST TO FILL --
12:08:35PM >> ADDITIONAL RESERVES, YES, THAT'S ALWAYS --
12:08:37PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I'M TALKING FULL ACTIVE DUTY.
12:08:39PM >> WHAT IS THE QUESTION ABOUT IT?
12:08:41PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
FOR ON THE STREET TPD.
12:08:45PM >> YES.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T FOLLOW YOU.
12:08:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU FOR ARTICULATING MY POINT.
12:08:51PM >> YES, WE ACTUALLY PROJECT THAT OUT FOR THREE YEARS NOW.
12:08:53PM >> YEAH, OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS, 67 PEOPLE WILL BE
LEAVING THE JOB.
12:08:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
EVEN THOUGH WE'RE THINKING AHEAD, WE STILL
GOT TO KEEP UP.

IF WE'RE LOSING 20 AND ONLY HIRING 15, THAT MEANS WE'RE
STILL DOWN 5.
12:09:09PM >> IF YOU WANT, COULD SHOW YOU THE CHART AND CONFUSE THE
HECK OUT OF YOU.
YES, WE HAVE PROJECTED THE EXACT SCENARIOS ON WHERE WE NEED
TO STAY ABOVE WATER AND NOT LET OURSELVES GET DOWN WHERE WE
DID BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
12:09:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THROWING OTHER FIGURES IN THERE TOO.
HYPOTHETICAL, SAY ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY TAKING OFF, THAT'S
TAKING AWAY AN OFFICER ON THE BEAT.
WE HAVE SOMEBODY HAVING SOME FAMILY MEDICAL ISSUES.
THAT'S TAKING ANOTHER ONE OFF.
YOU HAVE TRAINING.
SO IF ALL THREE OF THOSE COMBINED TOGETHER, THEN WE'RE
REALLY DOWN OFFICERS IN OUR DIFFERENT AREAS.
SO I'M HOPING THAT WE'RE STARTING TO THINK AHEAD ON THOSE
SEVEN THINGS, ESPECIALLY THROUGH ATTRITION, RETIREMENT, AND
WHATNOT.
12:09:50PM >> IN ADDITION TO THE ONES THAT WE ARE PLANNING THAT ARE
LEAVING, WE ACTUALLY PROJECT UNPLANNED LEAVES IN OUR
CALCULATIONS.
THAT'S ALL TO GET AHEAD OF THE CURVE.
12:09:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, CHIEF.
I'M NOT GOING THERE.
NEXT TIME I'LL GO THERE.

ALL RIGHT.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 5, FILE NUMBER CM23-79625.
CHIEF?
CHIEF, I APOLOGIZE.
IT WAS RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME.
MS. STEPHANIE POYNOR?
SHE'S NOT THERE.
OKAY.
CHIEF, GO AHEAD.
12:10:38PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
GOOD MORNING, BARBARA TRIPP, CHIEF OF TAMPA
FIRE RESCUE.
I DID SEND A MEMO IN REGARDING THE ITEM.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO ADDRESS THEM.
WE DO CONSTANTLY HAVE MEETINGS OFTEN TO REVIEW THE
INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN GIVEN OUT ABOUT THE DELAY WITH THE
HOSPITALS AS FAR AS UNITS NOT BEING AVAILABLE.
12:11:00PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
12:11:00PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT.
I KNOW YOU AND I HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THAT AS EARLY AS THIS
MORNING EVEN, JUST DISCUSSING WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE
THAT.
WE WERE AT, ACTUALLY COUNCILMAN VIERA AND I BOTH WERE --
JUST WENT TO WATCH THE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT --
12:11:24PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
EMERGENCY MEDICAL PLANNING COMMITTEE.
12:11:27PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.

THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
BYPASS AND BPM, I THINK I HAVE THAT RIGHT.
NO.
ANYWAY, BUT THE BYPASS IS THE THING THAT'S MOST INTERESTING.
THEY TALKED ABOUT THE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DATA.
SO I ACTUALLY GRABBED THAT AND OPEN IT PRETTY MUCH I WOULD
SAY THREE OR FOUR TIMES A DAY, AND THIS MORNING, FOR THE
VERY FIRST TIME SINCE I HAVE BEEN WATCHING SINCE THAT
MEETING, TAMPA GENERAL HOSPITAL WAS ACTUALLY OPEN.
12:12:07PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BYPASS, SO MANY AREAS
IN BYPASS.
IT COULD BE MULTIPLE THINGS.
DON'T HAVE PHYSICIANS, BEDS, ACCUMULATION OF STUFF.
IN THE HOSPITAL, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE SYSTEM HERE VERSUS
PINELLAS COUNTY, THEY HAVE A HOSPITAL ON EVERY CORNER.
WELL, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU WE ONLY HAVE TWO MAJOR
HOSPITALS.
ONE LEVEL ONE, LEVEL TWO, AND THE OTHER ONES ARE HOSPITALS
THAT ACTUALLY DON'T TAKE A LOT OF SEVERE PATIENTS, BUT THEY
MIGHT TAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE INCREASED LEVEL OF
SERVICE, BUT EVENTUALLY THAT PATIENT WILL HAVE TO BE SHIPPED
OUT TO ONE OF THE LEVEL ONES OR LEVEL TWO CENTERS.
SO IT'S A LOT OF COMPONENTS WHEN THEY ARE ON BYPASS AND IT
ALL DEPENDS IF THAT PARTICULAR HOSPITAL IS ON BYPASS, IT
WOULD BE INTERESTING TO FIND OUT WHY.

IS IT BECAUSE THE TRAUMA UNIT IS NOT AVAILABLE?
IS IT BECAUSE THE BEDS?
OR WHATEVER.
LIKE I SAID, IT FLUCTUATES DAILY.
IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE CRITICALNESS OF THE CALLS THAT'S BEING
TRANSPORTED TO THAT FACILITY.
12:13:03PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT FASCINATES ME THAT WE ONLY HAVE TWO MAJOR
HOSPITALS AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS A HOSPITAL SHORTAGE.
THANK YOU.
12:13:13PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
CREATE THAT DOMINO EFFECT BECAUSE IF TODAY,
YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT TAKE ME 15, 20 MINUTES TO OFF-LOAD A
PATIENT.
ANOTHER DAY IT MIGHT TAKE ME 30, 40 MINUTES.
ANOTHER DAY IT MIGHT TAKE AN HOUR.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE DAYS, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE TIME FRAME.
INFLUX OF CRITICAL PATIENTS?
SURGERY?
STAFFING.
CONSIDERATION WHEN THE HOSPITALS GO ON BYPASS AND, OF
COURSE, WITH OUR WAIT TIME.
12:13:40PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
I DID A RIDE-ALONG ON FRIDAY, AND I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT
EARLIER.
IT WAS A POLICE RIDE-ALONG, BUT WE HAD AN INCIDENT WHERE
THEY NEEDED TO A RESCUE CAR IN.

BECAUSE OF THE PERSON THEY NEEDED AN OFFICER TO GO ALONG TO
PROVIDE SECURITY.
AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT
FOR SEVERAL HOURS.
THE TIMES OF GETTING THAT OFFICER, JUST THE POLICE OFFICER
BACK ON THE STREET, IT WAS JUST A REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE
THE WAIT TIME.
THIS IS LIKE 7:00 ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
WAITING.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS ALSO AT TGH.
JUST HOW MUCH WAITING FOLKS ARE USED TO DOING ARE FIRST
RESPONDERS.
THAT'S CONCERNING.
12:14:35PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
SO EVEN WHEN WE WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS IN
BLUE TO ASSIST US TRANSPORTING THE PATIENT, AS FAR AS THEM
WAITING IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION.
OBVIOUSLY, IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE A VIOLENT SITUATION.
BUT USUALLY TPD OR HCSO WOULD TURN THEIR SECURITY PART OVER
TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE ALL THE HOSPITALS HAVE SECURITY.
SO A LOT OF TIMES THEY TRY NOT TO HOLD THEM UP.
IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION.
BUT FOR THEM -- AND LIKE I SAY, I DON'T KNOW.
I WASN'T THERE.
FOR THEM TO SAY, HEY, YOU'LL END UP WAITING IS MORE OR LESS
GETTING TO THE HOSPITAL AND TO SEE IF THEY HAVE THAT

AVAILABILITY, SECURITY TO TAKE OVER WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT
STARTED.
12:15:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
AND THEY DID, BUT THEY HAD TO HAVE THAT
QUESTION BEFORE OF WOULD SECURITY BE AVAILABLE AND ALL OF
THAT.
NO, NO, THAT'S A GOOD POINT MADE.
YEAH, I DO KNOW THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON THIS AREA, BUT I
THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO STAY FRONT AND CENTER FOR
BOTH THE PUBLIC AND OUR ATTENTION.
THANK YOU.
12:15:33PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I SEE THE UNION PRESIDENT NICK.
GOOD MORNING, AFTERNOON AGAIN.
I'VE READ THE REPORT AND ALSO MS. HURTAK HAS HAD THE
EXPERIENCE NOW AND UNDERSTANDING.
I DON'T KNOW -- I THINK WE OUGHT TO KEEP IT ON THE
FOREFRONT.
I THINK THE CHIEF IS TRYING TO WORK WITH THE HOSPITALS
TRYING TO FIX THE SITUATION, BUT IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE TIME.
I JUST WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, IF YOU READ THE
REPORT THAT'S BEEN GIVEN OUT?
12:16:14PM >> YES, GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCIL.
NICK STOCCO, TAMPA FIREFIGHTERS PRESIDENT, LOCAL 754.
I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME UP HERE.
CHIEF TRIPP AND I DID HAVE SOME E-MAIL CONVERSATION
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE COUNCIL MEETING WHERE WE HAVE

ADDRESSED THIS.
CHIEF TRIPP AND HER STAFF HAVE BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY ON
GETTING THIS CORRECTED.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, AT THE MEETING ON MONDAY, THEY
PRESENTED THAT THE 90th PERCENTILE, WE'RE AVERAGING
ANYWHERE BETWEEN 30 MINUTES OR LESS OF THE HOSPITALS.
THIS MORNING I DID HAVE TWO UPPER RANKING LEVEL MEMBERS AT
THE UNION OFFICE BOTH STATING THAT HOSPITAL WAIT TIMES HAVE
IMPROVED.
SO CHIEF TRIPP'S EFFORTS HAVE DECREASED AND HAVE MADE THIS
PROBLEM, DOWNSIZED THIS PROBLEM AS WELL AS ADVERTISING TO
THE MEMBERS TO TAKE THEIR COMMUNICATION DEVICES WITH THEM
INSIDE THE HOSPITALS SO THAT WAY THEY CAN BE COMMUNICATED
WITH BY DISPATCH TO MAKE SURE THAT -- TO GET A STATUS
UPDATE.
IN REGARDS TO WAIT TIMES, THEY HAVE GOTTEN SIGNIFICANTLY
BETTER AND WE CAN GIVE THANKS TO CHIEF TRIPP FOR HER EFFORTS
AS SHE DID WORKING WITH THE HOSPITALS.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE COULD DO OR LOOK INTO AS COUNCIL
MEMBERS IN THE FUTURE, IF WE DO SEE THESE PROBLEMS OCCUR
AGAIN IN THE FUTURE IS THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT FEES OR FINES.
I KNOW -- HERNANDO COUNTY HAS NOW STARTED TO CHARGE THE
HOSPITALS FOR UTILIZING THEIR SERVICES FOR THE WALL TIMES.
THINGS TO CONSIDER IN THE CITY ORDINANCE, ANY KIND OF FEES
OR ESTABLISHED FEES.

YES, THANK YOU.
CHIEF TRIPP HAS DONE A GOOD JOB ON RECTIFYING THIS ISSUE.
12:17:45PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, NICK.
APPRECIATE YOU.
12:17:48PM >> ANYTHING ELSE?
12:17:50PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
CHIEF, AGAIN, WE THANK YOU -- CHIEF, YOU
GOT RIGHT ON IT, LIKE I TOLD NICK BEFORE, TALK TO THE CHIEF.
TRY TO WORK THE ISSUES OUT.
EVERYTHING WON'T BE PERFECT ALL THE TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE A
BOSS YOU HAVE TO ANSWER TO.
I'M GLAD YOU GUYS ARE COMMUNICATING BETTER, WHAT I'M SEEING,
GETTING THE ISSUES OUT AND RESOLVING THE BEST WAY WE CAN.
EVERYTHING TAKES TIME.
DOESN'T WORK OVERNIGHT, BUT GLAD TO SEE THE WAIT TIME WHICH
WAS CONCERNING THE CITIZENS, ESPECIALLY THOSE FOLKS WAITING
TO GET BACK ON THE JOB, WE CAN REDUCE THAT.
SAY THANK YOU TO WORKING WITH THE UNIONS FOR TRYING TO GET
THAT RESOLVED.
12:18:29PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE ARE ADJOURNED UNTIL 1:45.
[ SOUNDING GAVEL ]
[LUNCH RECESS]
1:47:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU.
TAMPA CITY COUNCIL IS BACK IN SESSION.
ROLL CALL.

1:47:09PM >>BILL CARLSON:
HERE.
1:47:10PM >> VIERA?
MANISCALCO?
HURTAK?
1:47:13PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
HERE.
1:47:13PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
HERE.
1:47:15PM >> MIRANDA?
CITRO?
1:47:16PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HERE.
1:47:17PM >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
1:47:19PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I BELIEVE THAT COUNCILMAN VIERA HAS REQUESTED THAT WE MOVE
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 9 TO THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM THAT WE'RE
GOING TO BE HEARING.
AM I HEARING CORRECTLY?
I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO MOVE AGENDA 9 TO THE FIRST AGENDA
ITEM.
1:47:40PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO MOVED.
1:47:42PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SECOND.
1:47:42PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ALL IN FAVOR?
IS THERE ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION CARRIES.
CHIEF.

1:47:54PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCIL.
BARBARA TRIPP, FIRE CHIEF WITH TAMPA FIRE RESCUE.
I DID SEND A MEMO IN FOR CONTINUANCE OF THE ITEM DUE TO THE
FACT I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME BUT I BELIEVE I HAVE
SOMETHING SIMILAR ON THE MARCH AGENDA AS WELL.
I FIGURED JUST TO COMBINE THEM BOTH TOGETHER.
BUT IF YOU ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS UP UNTIL THEN, I'LL BE
MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER.
1:48:16PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS?
ANY COMMENTS?
I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
1:48:20PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
SO MOVED.
1:48:21PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THAT WAS TO MARCH 16?
1:48:23PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
YES, SIR.
1:48:24PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE HAVE A MOTION TO CONTINUE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 9 TO MARCH
16th, 2023.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
IS THERE ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION CARRIES.
1:48:40PM >>CHIEF TRIPP:
THANK YOU.
1:48:41PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, CHIEF.
I BELIEVE WE'RE AT AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 6, FILE CM23-79313.
1:48:55PM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
MORRIS MASSEY, LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
I KNOW THE AGENDA CALLS FOR REVENUE AND FINANCE.

MR. ROGERO IS UNAVOIDABLY OUT OF THE OFFICE TODAY.
I'M HERE TO MAKE A BRIEF PRESENTATION ABOUT IMPACT FEES
AGAIN AND KIND OF WHERE ALL OF THIS MAY FIT IN AND IN THE
PUBLIC SAFETY PROCESS A LOT OF WHICH WAS DISCUSSED THIS
MORNING.
IMPACT FEES ARE CONTROLLED BY BOTH A SERIES OF CASE LAW THAT
EXISTS UNDER FLORIDA LAW AND ALSO A STATE STATUTE.
SO WHAT IMPACT FEES CAN BE USED FOR ARE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE,
CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT CANNOT BE USED FOR PERSONNEL COSTS.
CANNOT BE USED FOR OPERATING COSTS.
ALSO, IMPACT FEES CAN ONLY BE USED TO OFFSET THE DEMANDS OR
THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE NECESSITATED
BY GROWTH.
SO EXISTING DEFICIENCIES THAT MAY EXIST, THE NEED FOR
ADDITIONAL FIRE STATIONS OR ADDITIONAL VEHICLES, AT THIS
POINT IN TIME, REALLY, YOU CAN'T PAY OUT OF IMPACT FEES.
IMPACT FEES HAVE TO BE GEARED TO NEW GROWTH.
NOW, IF YOU CAN SHOW THAT THE EXISTING DEFICIENCY AND THE
NEW GROWTH TOGETHER COULD BE OFFSET BY THE USE OF IMPACT
FEES, THEN YOU COULD POSSIBLY USE IMPACT FEES IN THAT
SITUATION.
BUT REALLY, IMPACT FEES, IT'S CALLED A DUAL RATIONAL NEXUS
TEST.
THE CASE LAW BASICALLY DEMANDS THAT IMPACT FEES BE TIED TO

THE IMPACTS THAT NEW GROWTH IS HAVING ON YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE
AND THEN THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN PLACE
WITH THE USE OF IMPACT FEES HAS TO HAVE A NEXUS TO THAT
GROWTH.
THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL THE DUAL RATIONAL NEXUS TEST.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE COUNCIL WAS AWARE OF HOW IMPACT
FEES FIT INTO THIS, BECAUSE IMPACT FEES CAN'T BE THE ANSWER
TO ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT POTENTIALLY FACE THE CITY IN ANY
AREA, WHETHER IT'S PUBLIC SAFETY OR TRANSPORTATION OR
STORMWATER, IT REALLY IS JUST A PIECE OF THE PIE OR THE
PUZZLE.
MR. ROGERO DID REACH OUT TO OUR CONSULTANT WHO WE WOULD
NORMALLY RETAIN FOR THIS TYPE OF STUDY BECAUSE UNDER FLORIDA
LAW, WE HAVE TO DO A SERIES OF STUDIES BEFORE WE IMPOSE
IMPACT FEES.
ONE IS A STUDY TO DETERMINE THE DEMAND NEEDS AND THEN THE
SECOND IS A RATE STUDY TO DETERMINE WHAT THE PROPER RATE
WOULD BE.
REALLY, THEY SAID REALLY THE PROCESS THAT POLICE AND FIRE
ARE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW RELATIVE TO THEIR MASTER
PLANNING EXERCISE, FIGURING OUT WHAT THE LEVEL OF SERVICE
SHOULD BE, WHAT THEIR CAPITAL NEEDS ARE NOW, WHAT THEY MAY
BE PROJECTED IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OF GROWTH IS REALLY THE
FIRST STEP IN THE PROCESS.
AND REALLY WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT FIRST AND THEN THAT

CAN BE BUILT UPON IN A DEMONSTRATE NEEDS STUDY AND RATE
STUDY WOULD FOLLOW AFTER THAT TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THE
FEES.
1:51:51PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS EVEN WITHOUT DOING IT,
WE ARE DOING THE FIRST STEP ALREADY.
1:51:56PM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
YES, MA'AM.
1:51:57PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
GREAT.
THAT'S EXACTLY.
BELIEVE ME, AS WE ARE ALL OUT A LOT LATELY TALKING TO A LOT
OF PEOPLE, AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT FOLKS ARE WILDLY
SUPPORTIVE OF ANYTHING THAT HELPS PROVIDE EXTRA PERSON POWER
FOR ALL OF BOTH POLICE AND FIRE.
AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING, FOLKS ARE MOVING HERE.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH -- WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH NEW POLICE AND
FIRE OUT TO SUPPORT.
AND I DO KNOW IT WOULD BE CAPITAL COST, BUT I STILL THINK
THAT THIS IS WORTH GOING FORWARD ON.
SO I APPRECIATE YOU LETTING US KNOW THAT IT'S ALREADY MOVING
FORWARD EVEN WITHOUT US HAVING DONE ANYTHING.
SO THANK YOU.
1:52:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
1:52:44PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO THINK THAT PUBLIC IMPACT FEES IN ANY
WAY WOULD PROVIDE, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT, THE KIND OF

REVENUE THAT WE WOULD NEED TO REMEDY OUR PUBLIC SAFETY
DEFICITS.
BUT IF THIS IS ONE TOOL THAT CAN REALISTICALLY BE USED, I
THINK WE SHOULD EXPLORE THAT, IF IT CAN BE REALISTICALLY
USED AND WHATNOT.
BUT WE DO NEED TO LOOK AT, IN MY OPINION, EVERY TOOL THAT WE
CAN TO FUND OUR PUBLIC SAFETY NEEDS.
I SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL TOUGH CHOICES THAT
WE MAY NEED TO MAKE OR THE NEXT COUNCIL MAY NEED TO MAKE
WITH REGARDS TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND REVENUE AND DIFFERENT
ISSUES LIKE THAT.
AGAIN, WE SHOULD USE ALL TOOLS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO US.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHEN IT GETS DOWN TO IT HOW MUCH REVENUE
PROSPECTIVELY THIS WOULD BRING IN.
1:53:39PM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
THIS WHOLE PROCESS WOULD TAKE AN AMOUNT OF
TIME BECAUSE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STUDIES INVOLVED IN DOING
IT.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING I THINK THAT MR. ROGERO WOULD
LIKE TO SAY TO YOU ALL IS THAT, LOOK, AS TPD AND TFR GO
THROUGH THEIR PLANNING AND ANALYSIS PROCESS, AS WE GO
THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT
ARE THE NEEDS.
AND, YEAH, ARE WE MAXIMIZING OUR CURRENT RESOURCES?
ARE WE GIVING MONEY BACK?
ARE WE DOING WHAT WE NEED TO DO?

AND WHAT ARE THE SOURCES, AND THERE ARE OTHER SOURCES THAN
JUST IMPACT FEES.
IMPACT FEES MAY NOT BE THE BEST SOURCE.
WE MAY MAKE DIFFERENT CHOICES BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL THOSE
THINGS AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
1:54:23PM >>LUIS VIERA:
AS ALWAYS, WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK.
1:54:25PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
1:54:26PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK FOR ME TO KIND OF PUT A DENT IN
THIS, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, ESPECIALLY WITH FIRE RIGHT NOW, I
THINK WITH THE DEVELOPMENT GOING ON, I SEE MR. BENSON HERE,
WITH THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOING ON, WE NEED TO BE DEALING
WITH THE DEVELOPERS WHO ARE BUILDING NOW AND ASKING HOW WE
CAN PARTNER TO PUT SOME SHELLS IN SOME OF THESE PLACES.
I THINK THAT WILL BE A CATALYST TO HELP US IN SOME OF THESE
POCKET AREAS FOR FIRE RESCUE.
MOST OF OUR ISSUES ARE RESCUE-BASED.
THEY ARE NOT FIRE BASED, BUT WE DO HAVE THESE BIG BUILDINGS
NOW THAT WILL NEED SOME TYPE OF APPARATUS.
I'M JUST SAYING I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THESE NEW
DEVELOPMENTS OR DEVELOP BUILDINGS THAT WE CAN MAYBE LEASE
OUT OR DO SOMETHING TO WHERE WE CAN HAVE THAT AS A CATALYST
TO CATAPULT US TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE AT.
I HOPE WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, MR. BENSON, AND THE FIRE CHIEF
AS WELL.
I THINK THAT'S KEY FOR FIRE, THOSE SHELLS.

OTHER CITIES DON'T HAVE BIG FIRE STATIONS.
THEY HAVE AN AREA TO WHERE THE GUYS CAN PULL IN, BED, BUNKS
THERE, KITCHEN THERE AND KEEP IT ROLLING.
1:55:34PM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
TO THAT END, MR. GUDES, WE'RE HAVING
INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE END AS THESE
LARGER DEVELOPERS, AS THESE DEVELOPERS COME IN, ESPECIALLY
THE LARGER DEVELOPERS COME IN AND WANT TO NEGOTIATE
DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA, THAT IS A
PLACE WHERE WE COULD POTENTIALLY NEGOTIATE WITH THEM ON
CERTAIN SPACE CONCESSIONS, THAT SORT OF THING.
THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT I BELIEVE AS PART OF
THE PROCESS.
1:55:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
1:55:58PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WOULD SAY NOT EVEN LIKE CONSIDER.
I THINK WE SHOULD 100% BE NEGOTIATING THAT.
WE HAVE SO MUCH NEED, AND WE HAVE JUST APPROVED SEVERAL
LARGE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE NO SPACE FOR ADDITIONAL FIRE
SPACE.
AND THERE'S NO WAY.
SO I WOULD SAY DON'T EVEN TRY, BUT JUST DO.
1:56:22PM >>MORRIS MASSEY:
I THINK PART OF THIS IS MAKING SURE IT IS
THE RIGHT PLACE.
I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE THE NEED DOES NOT EXIST.
SO YOU DON'T NEED TO ASK FOR IT.
THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE IT MAY.

PART OF THE PLANNING PROCESS IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE
AND WHAT WE NEED.
1:56:39PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
THANK YOU, MR. MASSEY.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 7, FILE NUMBER E2022-8, CHAPTER 27.
1:56:56PM >>ABBYE FEELEY:
GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCIL.
ABBYE FEELEY, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH
MANAGEMENT.
WE PROVIDED A MEMORANDUM TO YOU RELATED TO THE MOTION FOR
LOOKING INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF CREATING ONE OR MORE
ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS, AND ALSO THE REPORT BACK ON SOUND.
THIS IS ON THOSE TWO ITEMS.
WHEN THIS LAST LEFT OFF AND JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF
HISTORY, THERE WERE SOUND ISSUES IN THE CITY.
STAFF HAD PUT TOGETHER SOME RECOMMENDED CHANGES TO THE SOUND
ORDINANCE, CHAPTER 14.
THOSE CHANGES WERE PASSED, LATER REPEALED, AND THEN WE WERE
WORKING TO HOLD SOME PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS.
THOSE ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS WERE HELD ON MAY 31st, JUNE
27th, AND JULY 6th.
I DID PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ON WHO PARTICIPATED IN THOSE
AND WHAT THE MAIN CONCERNS THAT WE HEARD WITH THAT AS WELL.
AND THEN SHARED WITH YOU ENFORCEMENT STATISTICS RELATED TO
NUMBERS OF COMPLAINTS AND NUMBERS OF CITATIONS RELATED TO
SOUND OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

AT THE PRESENT TIME, STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING ANY CHANGES
TO EITHER THE SOUND CHAPTER 14 OR FOR THE CREATION OF A
SPECIAL DISTRICT.
1:58:18PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
1:58:20PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YEAH, AT LEAST IN MY MOTION, SOUND WAS NOT
AN ISSUE.
I'M NOT SURE WHY THAT CAME BACK UP.
THE ISSUE IS THAT YBOR CITY IS NOT GOING TO BE AN
ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT IN FIVE YEARS OR TEN YEARS.
THERE WILL BE ENTERTAINMENT THERE.
EVERY TIME THE SOUND THING COMES UP OR SOMEBODY TALKS ABOUT
THIS, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT PANIC AND THINK EVERYTHING WILL
BE SHUT DOWN.
THE MARKET FORCES ARE CHANGING YBOR, AND IT'S NOT BY CITY
REGULATION OR ANYTHING.
BUT AS PEOPLE BUY BUILDINGS AND DECIDE TO PUT DIFFERENT
THINGS IN THEM, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE PARTY DISTRICT
ANYMORE.
THERE STILL WILL BE NIGHT LIFE AND BARS AND RESTAURANTS, BUT
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE CRAZY LATE-NIGHT PARTYING PLACE IN
TEN YEARS FOR SURE.
SOUTH HOWARD FOR MORE THAN TEN YEARS, THE NEIGHBORS HAVE
OBJECTED TO THE PARTYING THAT GOES ON SOUTH HOWARD AND THAT
HAS BECOME THE PLACE THAT HAS REPLACED YBOR IN THE LAST FEW
YEARS.

WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE IT THERE LIKE THAT.
SO WE HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO MOVE THIS FORWARD,
BUT WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE AS A COMMUNITY.
IF WE WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO STAY HERE AND COME BACK, WE HAVE
TO FIND AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT BECAUSE THOSE TWO WILL NOT
BE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS.
NOBODY IS GOING TO TOUCH THEIR LIQUOR LICENSE OR THEIR
PROPERTY RIGHTS OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT THE NEIGHBORS AROUND
SOUTH HOWARD ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE TO BE
THE LATE-NIGHT CRAZY PARTY PLACE IT IS AND YBOR WON'T BE
BECAUSE OF MARKET FORCES.
IF WE DO NOT FIND AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, THEN WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE SOUND PROBLEMS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY AND
YOUNG PEOPLE NOT MOVING BACK HERE.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR THIS TO COME BACK.
I DON'T KNOW, MS. FEELEY, MAYBE YOU AND I CAN MEET IN THE
MEANTIME.
WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, WHICH ONES OF US ARE STILL HERE.
I WOULD LIKE TO JUST HAVE THIS COME BACK TO THE WORKSHOP ON
AUGUST 31st TO DISCUSS IT MORE DEEPLY, AND THEN MAYBE --
2:00:20PM >> SECOND.
2:00:21PM >>BILL CARLSON:
-- MAYBE, MS. FEELEY, YOU AND NICOLE AND
STEVEN VINCENT AND I CAN MEET AND TALK ABOUT IT.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYBODY ELSE.

SOMEWHERE WE'VE GOT TO FIND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.
MOST CITIES PLAN FOR IT SO THAT IT WILL BE IN AN INDUSTRIAL
AREA SO THERE WON'T BE SOUND PROBLEMS.
AND NOT HAVING ONE IS JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE OUR CITY
WON'T BE ABLE TO GROW.
WE'LL LOSE ALL OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.
THANK YOU.
2:00:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, HANG ON ONE SECOND,
PLEASE.
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
2:00:57PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES, SIR.
MR. CARLSON, YOU ARE 100% RIGHT.
I'VE CALLED YBOR CITY -- WHEN I GO TO OTHER STATES AND
PLACES, THEY ALWAYS HOLLER ABOUT YBOR.
THRIVING CITY HAS TO HAVE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING WORK ON A BIG CONVENTION CENTER.
PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO A PLACE AFTER THEY GET THROUGH WORK,
HAVING MEETINGS, TO HAVE A CIGAR, DRINK, HEAR SOME MUSIC.
THAT'S A THRIVING CITY.
I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS.
WE HAVE TO FIND AN AREA THAT COULD BE AN ENTERTAINMENT
DISTRICT FOR THE CITY.
YBOR IS CHANGING.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL CHANGE THAT FAST.
IT IS CHANGING.
FAMILY-STYLE CAFE TYPE THING.
TO ME, IN MY OPINION, IT HURTS YBOR TO DO THAT BECAUSE
PEOPLE KNOW YBOR TO BE A PLACE OF HISTORIC.
PEOPLE KNOW YBOR IS A PLACE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND PARTY.
I'M NOT A FORTUNE TELLER.
MR. CARLSON COULD BE RIGHT.
COULD BE GOING AWAY IN TEN YEARS.
I DON'T THINK SO.
BUT IT COULD.
BUT WE DO NEED TO FIND A PLACE IN THE CITY THAT YOU COULD
HAVE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT SO PEOPLE CAN HAVE YOUR BARS,
YOUR CLUBS, AND HAVE A LICENSE, DRINK PARTY, THAT'S WHERE
YOU NEED TO GO, AWAY FROM THE SOUND, FROM NEIGHBORHOODS, AND
YOU'RE RIGHT, OTHER PLACES HAVE THOSE AREAS, AND YOU GO TO
THOSE TOWNS, WHERE DOES EVERYBODY GO?
THEY GO TO THE MIDTOWN AREA.
I JUST THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT.
I SUPPORT THE MOTION THAT YOU FIND A PLACE FOR
ENTERTAINMENT-TYPE AREA.
2:02:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
2:02:34PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SO I WAS THINKING ABOUT WHERE THIS PLACE
COULD GO.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CONSIDERED IT, WHAT ABOUT DREW PARK?

DREW PARK HAS SOME RESIDENTIAL, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT A LOT,
IT'S WAREHOUSES AND OTHER TYPE OF PLACES.
2:02:50PM >>BILL CARLSON:
DO YOU REMEMBER THROUGH THE CRA WE ASKED
DREW PARK AND THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, NO, THEY DIDN'T WANT
IT.
THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME PLACE IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREA WHERE IT
WOULD BE OKAY.
I THINK DREW PARK WOULDN'T PERFECT PLACE BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT
NEXT TO THE AIRPORT.
THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS BUT WE DON'T PUT IT NEXT TO THE
NEIGHBORHOODS.
WE PUT IT IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREA.
2:03:07PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
TPD STATION ONE.
YOU HAVE HILLSBOROUGH.
YOU HAVE DALE MABRY.
YOU HAVE AIR CARGO ROAD.
YOU HAVE PLENTY OF WIDE ROADS, ACCESS POINTS, AGAIN, RIGHT
BY THE AIRPORT, RIGHT BY THE STADIUM.
EASY ACCESS.
JUST A THOUGHT.
2:03:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANYONE ELSE?
BEFORE WE GO --
2:03:27PM >>ABBYE FEELEY:
MAY I ASK A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, PLEASE?
SO I'M JUST -- I'M LISTENING TO WHAT YOU-ALL ARE SAYING AND
IN MY HEAD TRYING TO ABSORB A LOT OF THIS BECAUSE AS YOU

KNOW, AND WAS TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING WITH THE COMP PLAN
UPDATE, WE HAVE LESS THAN 4% VACANT LAND IN OUR CITY.
WE CONTINUE TO PROPOSE MIXED USE ALONG THESE CORRIDORS AND
NOW I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SAYING CREATE ANOTHER PLACE.
I JUST WANT SOME CLARIFICATION.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT YOU'RE LOOKING
FOR IS NOT CURRENTLY WITHIN THE BOUNCERS OF YBOR.
IT'S NOT CURRENTLY WITHIN SOUTH HOWARD.
IT'S NOT -- I NEED A LITTLE BIT -- I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM
WITH UNDERTAKING AND LOOKING AT THIS.
I JUST NEED SOME MORE DIRECTION AS TO JUST COME UP WITH A
PLACE.
I CAN'T JUST COME UP WITH A PLACE.
IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT BECAUSE WE TRY TO BALANCE THE
NEEDS OF ALL THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY AND ALL THE
BUSINESSES OF THE CITY.
AND WHERE THESE THINGS ARE.
SO JUST BY CREATING A PLACE AND THINKING THEN THAT THE
BUSINESSES WILL GO THERE BECAUSE THAT IS THE PLACE ISN'T
GOING TO TAKE THEM OUT OF SOUTH HOWARD OR YBOR.
I'M HAPPY TO WORK WITH YOU.
HAPPY TO TRY TO FIND THE BALANCE WITH YOU.
WHEN WE TAKE OUR CAPACITY AND HEAD DOWN THE PATH WHAT THAT
LOOKS LIKE OR WHAT YOU IMAGINE THAT LOOKS LIKE SO THAT WE
ARE COMING BACK WITH SOMETHING RESPONSIVE TO THAT.

2:04:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
2:04:52PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE SHORT ANSWER FOR ME IS, YES, WE HAVE TO
FIND ANOTHER PLACE.
AND JUST TO REPEAT, WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY PROPERTY RIGHTS.
WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY ALCOHOL LICENSES.
WE HAVE TO PROTECT ALL THAT THAT'S BEEN GIVEN OUT.
BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YBOR IS THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL BIG
INVESTORS THAT ARE GOING IN AND BUYING UP ALL THE PROPERTIES
AND NEW INVESTORS ARE COMING IN BUYING THE PROPERTIES.
WE'RE CHANGING FROM LATE-NIGHT PARTY PLACES TO WINE BARS AND
LIVE MUSIC BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
AND THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE LATE-NIGHT 3 A.M. KIND
OF STUFF THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.
PROBABLY ALL OF US HAVE GREAT EXPERIENCES IN THAT A LONG
TIME AGO, BUT IT'S NOT UP TO THE CITY TO CHANGE THAT.
THE MARKET FORCES ARE CHANGING IT BECAUSE AS SOME OF THESE
NIGHTCLUBS SHUT DOWN, PEOPLE ARE BUYING THE BUILDINGS AND
PUTTING DIFFERENT USES IN THEM.
SO YBOR, JUST BECAUSE OF THE PREFERENCE OF THE NEW OWNERS IS
GOING TO RADICALLY CHANGE.
THERE STILL WILL BE -- THERE STILL WILL BE ENTERTAINMENT,
BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE PARTY DISTRICT.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE BIG ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT THAT IT
HAS IN THE PAST.
THERE WILL BE ALL KINDS OF ENTERTAINMENT THERE, BUT IT WON'T

BE JUST A DESTINATION FOR ENTERTAINMENT.
IT WILL BE A NEIGHBORHOOD AGAIN.
IN THE '50s, THERE WAS ENTERTAINMENT, BUT IT WASN'T THE
ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.
IT WAS AN ARTIFICIAL THING THAT WAS BUILT FOR ABOUT 20
YEARS.
AND SO SAME THING WITH SOUTH HOWARD.
THE LAND ENTITLEMENTS AND THE ALCOHOL LICENSES, THEY HAVE TO
BE PROTECTED, BUT IN THAT CASE WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THE
NEIGHBORS ARE NOT GOING TO TOLERATE IT ANYMORE.
WE CONTINUE TO HAVE COMPLAINTS AT LEAST ON THE NORTHERN PART
OF SOUTH HOWARD, NORTH OF MORRISON, AND THE NEIGHBORS ARE
NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT.
SO THEY'LL COME IN AND ASK US TO REGULATE MORE AND MORE AND
MORE.
I THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN FROM MARKET FORCES IS THE PEOPLE
WHO WANT TO RUN LATE-NIGHT ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE ALLOWED
ARE GOING TO CHOOSE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
WE NEED TO FIND A PLACE THEY CAN GO.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T SERVE ALCOHOL WHERE THEY ARE.
THEY CAN SERVE ALCOHOL, THEY CAN SERVE FOOD, BUT IT'S NOT
GOING TO BE THE LATE-NIGHT PARTY PLACE THAT IT IS NOW.
THE POINT IS MARKET FORCES, NOT THE CITY, BUT MARKET FORCES
ARE GOING TO CHANGE THESE TWO PLACES.
SO WE'VE GOT TO FIND A THIRD OPTION BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE'LL

GET STUCK WITH NOTHING.
2:07:11PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
2:07:16PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I JUST THINK THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOUTH
HOWARD, IT'S A DIFFERENT AREA OF TOWN, DIFFERENT MARKET.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT YBOR, THAT'S A DIFFERENT MARKET.
YOU LOOK AT ARMATURE WORKS, IT'S ALL DIFFERENT PLACES OF
DIFFERENT MARKETS.
TO ME, YBOR IS KIND OF LIKE THE MELTING POT FOR EVERYBODY,
YOU CAN SAY.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE EAST SIDE DON'T GO TO SOUTH HOWARD.
A LOT OF PEOPLE TO THE NORTH DON'T GO TO SOUTH HOWARD.
PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY GOES TO YBOR.
AGAIN, I DON'T SEE YBOR CHANGING THAT FAST.
I KNOW A LOT OF INVESTORS ARE BUYING, IT COULD CHANGE.
WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE GO BECAUSE A
LOT OF THESE FOLKS MAY LOSE JOBS.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A WINE-TASTING PLACE, YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT YOU AND I LADY FRIEND, YOUR WIFE, NICE, QUIET MUSIC
VERSUS SOME PEOPLE, YOU WANT TO GO OUT AND YOU WANT TO JUMP
AROUND.
THE MUSIC IS LOUD.
BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WHEN YOU DO THIS, WHEN PEOPLE MOVE
IN THERE, IT DOESN'T CHANGE BECAUSE TO ME, IF I BOUGHT
PROPERTY IN YBOR OR I BOUGHT A PLACE IN YBOR, WELL, I
ALREADY KNEW THAT YBOR HAS LOUD MUSIC.

FIVE YEARS LATER, I WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MUSIC, WELL,
WHEN I BOUGHT IT, I ALREADY KNEW LOUD MUSIC WAS THERE.
I'M BEING HONEST.
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NOW.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE BOUGHT STUFF, AND NOW COMPLAINING.
YOU KNEW WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU BOUGHT, WHERE
YOU BOUGHT IT AT.
DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD.
AGAIN, THINGS DO CHANGE, BUT I DO THINK WE DO HAVE TO LOOK
AT THE FUTURE TO FIND AREAS THAT WILL BE AWAY FROM THAT TO
WHERE IT HELPS THE POLICE OUT BETTER.
PATROL BETTER.
IT'S CONTROLLED BETTER, AND YOU WANT THOSE LICENSES, YOU
WANT TO DO -- WHAT IS YOUR ENTERTAINMENT?
WHEN YOU FILE FOR BUSINESS LICENSE IN THE CITY?
IS IT LATE-NIGHT?
WHAT IS IT?
SMALL WINERY?
WELL, YOU CAN'T BE HERE AND WE DON'T ALLOW THAT IN THESE
KIND OF AREAS OF AN OVERLAY, YOU HAVE TO GO OUT HERE.
I THINK KIND OF LOOKING AT HOW WE BALANCE SOME OF THAT OUT
FOR ME AND SEE WHAT KIND OF PLAN WE COME UP WITH FOR THE
FUTURE, CAN'T DO IT RIGHT AWAY, NEED TO START PLANNING FOR
IT.
2:09:32PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MS. JOHNSON-VELEZ.

2:09:33PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ, LEGAL
DEPARTMENT.
TO FOLLOW-UP ON SOME OF ABBYE'S QUESTIONS -- THIS WON'T BE
THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY IT, BUT I KNOW PEOPLE
REFER TO THE SOUTH HOWARD AREA AS ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT IN
YBOR, BUT THERE IS NO ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT DEFINED IN OUR
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CURRENTLY OR ANYWHERE IN OUR CODE.
THE TWO AREAS, YBOR HISTORIC DISTRICT AND ARENA DISTRICT ARE
TWO AREAS WHERE SOUND IS MEASURED DIFFERENTLY.
IT'S MEASURED ON A DECIBEL LEVEL STANDARD WHEREAS THE
PLAINLY AUDIBLE STANDARD IS WHAT'S USED EVERYWHERE ELSE IN
THE CITY.
ASIDE FROM SOUND LEVEL OR NOISE IS WHAT I HEAR COUNCIL
MAINLY FOCUSING ON, BUT WHAT OTHER THINGS, JUST FOR PURPOSES
OF US TRYING TO HONE IN AND FOCUS ON WHAT YOU'RE ASKING US,
WHAT OTHER THINGS DO YOU HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT?
WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT GUIDELINES?
IS IT JUST SOUND YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT?
OR IS IT CONCENTRATION OF BARS AND NIGHTCLUBS?
2:10:32PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK SO.
MR. CHAIRMAN, RECOGNIZED?
2:10:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES, PLEASE.
2:10:35PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
I THINK SO.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT ALL.

WHAT IS AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT?
WHAT DO OTHER CITIES DO AS THEY DEFINE ENTERTAINMENT
DISTRICT IN IS IT THE LATE-NIGHT HOURS?
SOME NIGHTS WINERIES MAY CLOSE 9:00, 10:00.
AFTER-HOURS PLACE, YOUNG PEOPLE WANT TO COME OUT LATE NIGHT,
YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE DEFINED AS ENTERTAINMENT AREA.
OPEN UP FOR LATE-NIGHT DRINKING, PARTYING, WHATEVER, OUTSIDE
DANCE, WHATEVER, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT OTHER
CITIES ARE DOING TO SEE HOW THEY DEFINE ENTERTAINMENT
DISTRICT AND WHERE THAT WOULD FIT INTO THE CITY.
THAT WAY YOU MIGHT HAVE AMPLIFIED SOUND OUTSIDE.
A LOT OF TIMES -- I LOOK AT -- A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WALKING
THE STRIP.
WHEN THEY HEAR THE MUSIC, THEY DIP IN BECAUSE OF THE MUSIC.
I JUST THINK IT'S A DIFFERENT VIBE FOR PEOPLE.
I LIKE THE OPEN AREA.
I LIKE TO WALK AND LOOK AT DIFFERENT PLACES AND ALL
DIFFERENT PEOPLE VERSUS AN ENCLOSED PLACE.
I THINK AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT THAT COULD BE OUTSIDE,
HAVE THOSE KIND OF AMENITIES AS WELL, YOU COULD HAVE THAT
AMPLIFIED SOUND, AMPLIFIED MUSIC.
GOT TO RESEARCH WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING AND LOOKING AT WHAT
THEIR SUCCESSES AND FAILURES ARE AND SEE HOW WE COULD BRING
THAT HERE.
2:11:51PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
THANK YOU.

2:11:54PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
2:11:55PM >>BILL CARLSON:
TO SAVE TIME TODAY, IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR
YOU TO MAYBE -- I FOR SURE WOULD LIKE TO TALK OFF-LINE AND
MAYBE TALK TO THE COLLEAGUES, TOO.
HOST A TOWN HALL MEETING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
HAPPY TO HELP WITH THAT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES.
WE MIGHT WANT TO MEET WITH SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND
SOUTH HOWARD SO YOU CAN HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THEM AND THEIR
CONCERNS.
BUT AN EXAMPLE, IF A PIZZA PLACE IS SELLING PIZZA AND PEOPLE
ARE WALKING THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS AND THROWING PIZZA BOXES
IN THE YARDS, THE REAL OR PERCEIVED PERCEPTION OF CRIME, THE
TRAFFIC, FEAR OF PEOPLE DRIVING DRUNK.
THERE'S ALL KINDS OF STUFF THAT PEOPLE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT.
ALMOST EVERY NEIGHBORHOODS HAS SOME KIND OF ALCOHOL
ESTABLISHMENT.
SO IT'S NOT ABOUT NOT HAVING ANY ENTERTAINMENT.
IT'S JUST HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF ENTERTAINMENT.
THESE TWO PROBLEMS ARE DIFFERENT.
ONE IS THE NEIGHBORS WHO WERE THERE FIRST NOT WANTING TO
HAVE THIS CONTINUOUS PARTY DISTRICT THAT THEIR VIEW IS
GETTING WORSE AND WORSE.
THE OTHER CASE, IT'S OWNERS OF BUILDINGS WHO ARE DECIDING TO
PUT DIFFERENT TENANTS INSIDE.

SO THERE STILL WOULD BE ENTERTAINMENT.
BUT THE POINT IS THAT IF WE DON'T CREATE ANOTHER PLACE WHERE
THEY CAN GO AND MAYBE AFTER ALL THIS WE CAN COME BACK AND
SAY, WELL, IT'S DISPERSED IN SEVERAL PLACES.
IF WE DON'T CREATE SOMEPLACE FOR IT TO GO, THEN IT COULD
CAUSE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WILL
SAY THIS IS A BORING PLACE.
THANK YOU.
2:13:29PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LADIES, WOULD YOU PLEASE STAY UP THERE FOR
ME?
PLEASE.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
WE STILL HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
THE PROBLEM I FIND WITH THE MOTION IS DEFINE ENTERTAINMENT.
SOME PEOPLE THINK GOING OUT TO A FINE RESTAURANT IS
ENTERTAINMENT.
SOME PEOPLE THINK GOING TO A DISCOTHEQUE IS ENTERTAINMENT.
SOME PEOPLE THINK SEEING A LARGE VENUE, LARGE VAN AT A VENUE
IS ENTERTAINMENT.
BUT 200 PEOPLE SITTING IN A COURTYARD MIGHT ALSO BE
ENTERTAINMENT.
WHEN I ASKED FOR THIS SOUND ORDINANCE OR TO STUDY THIS SOUND
ORDINANCE, I WAS MORE CONCERNED WITH SOMETHING THAT
COUNCILWOMAN CAPIN SAID 20 YEARS AGO, OUTSIDE AMPLIFIED
MUSIC.

WE ARE NOW SEEING OUR CITY GROWING WHERE BARS AND
RESTAURANTS ARE ABUTTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
THERE'S A PROBLEM.
I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ON SOUTH MacDILL THAT THE NEIGHBORS
20 YEARS LATER ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MUSIC.
WHEN I ASKED FOR THIS SOUND ORDINANCE, I WANTED A BLANKET ON
THE CITY WHERE NOISE WOULD GO DOWN TO REASONABLE LEVELS TO
WHERE THE NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR COULD GO TO SLEEP FOR WORK THE
NEXT DAY.
ALL ACROSS THE CITY AND THEN CARVE OUT SECTIONS.
CHANNEL DISTRICT, YBOR CITY, PARTS OF HOWARD AVENUE.
BUT THE KEY IN MY OPINION THERE IS SOUND, AMPLIFIED, WHEN IT
ENDS.
SO THESE BARS AND RESTAURANTS ARE STARTING TO ENCROACH THE
RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT PEOPLE LIVING AROUND THEM COULD GET A
DECENT NIGHT'S SLEEP FOR THEIR WORK.
STILL HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ARE YOU STILL WANTING TO TAKE A VOTE ON THAT MOTION?
2:15:38PM >> YES.
2:15:40PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
LET'S HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE ON THAT MOTION.
2:15:53PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I THINK ENTERTAINMENT IS ANYTHING EXCEPT
PUNK ROCK.
[ LAUGHTER ]
2:16:05PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THEN I HAVE TO ARGUE WITH YOU.

2:16:06PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THANK YOU, MS. HURTAK.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE AUDIENCE, COUNCILMAN CARLSON
ACTUALLY LIKES KC AND THE SUNSHINE BAND.
2:16:16PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
WHO IS PERFORMING TONIGHT.
2:16:18PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ME.
I'D RATHER SEE PUNK ROCK.
GO AHEAD.
ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE.
2:16:25PM >>THE CLERK:
VIERA?
2:16:35PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
2:16:36PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
2:16:38PM >> MIRANDA?
2:16:39PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
2:16:40PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
2:16:41PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
2:16:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AND COUNCILMAN CARLSON, I APOLOGIZE, BUT I
NEED DEFINITION OF ENTERTAINMENT.
NO.
2:16:50PM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION PASSED WITH CITRO VOTING NO AND MIRANDA
ABSENT.
2:16:55PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. CHAIRMAN, MS. FEELEY, YOU'RE GOING TO
BRING BACK THE DEFINITION OF ENTERTAINMENT WHEN YOU BRING
THIS BACK, AM I CORRECT?
2:17:08PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
UH-OH.
MIGHT BE ONE PERSON'S DEFINITION AS OPPOSED TO ANOTHER

PERSON'S DEFINITION.
2:17:14PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
OTHER CITIES AND WHAT THEY DEFINE.
2:17:18PM >>ABBYE FEELEY:
ABBYE FEELEY.
WE DID DO THAT WHEN WE BROUGHT BACK THE ORIGINAL SOUND AND
WE COULDN'T GET TO A CONSENSUS ON THAT.
YES, WE'LL TRY AGAIN.
AND WE'LL BRING TO YOU, AND I THINK WE ORIGINALLY BROUGHT TO
YOU WHAT CITY OF CLEARWATER HAD DONE AND JUST PULLED BACK.
WHAT CITY OF ORLANDO HAD DONE IN RELATION TO CHURCH STREET
AND THEN THEY JUST PULLED BACK.
WE HAD PROVIDED SOME OF THAT INFORMATION DURING OUR FIRST
EFFORT, BUT WE'LL DO IT AGAIN.
2:17:46PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
LOOK OUTSIDE FOR OTHER PLACES THAT HAVE
BIGGER VENUES AND BIG ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS.
2:17:53PM >>SUSAN JOHNSON-VELEZ:
WE'LL MAKE SURE IT ACCOMMODATES KC
AND THE SUNSHINE BAND.
2:18:01PM >> MAKE A LITTLE LOVE AND GET DOWN TONIGHT.
2:18:03PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WHAT I WOULD LIKE, IF YOU WOULD, TAKE A LOOK
AT BUCKHORN OUTSIDE OF ATLANTA AND SEE HOW IT IS FAILING.
2:18:11PM >>BILL CARLSON:
BUCKHEAD.
2:18:12PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
BUCKHEAD.
WHAT DID I SAY?
BUCKHEAD.
2:18:15PM >>BILL CARLSON:
FOR ANYBODY WHO DIDN'T GET THE JOKE, CHAIR
CITRO WAS A LATE-NIGHT DEEJAY PLAYING PUNK ROCK MUSIC, SO

THAT WAS THE REFERENCE.
2:18:28PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WMNF.
MAN, I LOVE SOME GOOD PUNK ROCK MUSIC.
2:18:33PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THE ENTERTAINMENT IS CITY COUNCIL.
THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT.
2:18:35PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
BOOM.
BOOM.
THAT IS A SONG BY THE JAM.
CRICKETS.
WHERE ARE WE AT NOW?
WE'RE AT AGENDA NUMBER 8, FILE CM22-78004.
MR. BENSON.
2:18:53PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
CAN I PLEASE HAVE THE PRESENTATION FOR
NUMBER 8?
2:19:00PM >>BILL CARLSON:
MR. BENSON, JUST TO SAVE TIME, I READ
THROUGH THE PRESENTATION.
THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAD HERE IS WHAT AREAS, IS IT
POSSIBLE WE COULD SKIP TO A MAP AND SHOW US WHAT AREAS MIGHT
IT MAKE SENSE TO ALLOW UP TO THE FAA LIMIT.
ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS ARE WE TRYING TO RESTRICT OR LIMIT
IT TO THE FAA.
THAT'S NOT THE INTENT.
THE INTENT IS THERE ARE SOME PLACES LIKE DALE MABRY WHERE IT
MIGHT MAKE SENSE TO ALLOW BY RIGHT THE FAA LIMIT SO
DEVELOPERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF

DOLLARS COMING BEFORE US AND WASTING OUR TIME AND ALSO PARTS
OF CHANNEL DISTRICT.
CONCLUSION, ARE THERE ANY AREAS ADJACENT TO AREAS THAT HAVE
DENSITY THAT YOU THINK IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO ALLOW THIS OR
NOT?
2:19:49PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT
RECOMMENDATION YET.
THE REASON BEING IS BECAUSE THE FAA LIMIT IS DIFFERENT
THROUGHOUT THE BUFFER ZONES AROUND THE FACILITIES.
IT STARTS AT 30 FEET AND GOES ALL THE WAY TO 210.
THAT MIGHT IMPACT ONE NEIGHBORHOOD IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT
WAYS.
COULD BE 30 FEET AND UP TO 70 FEET, PURELY BASED ON WHERE
THE FAA LIMIT IS.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE AVIATION AUTHORITY, BOARD OF
ADJUSTMENT CAN WAIVE IT.
I THINK THERE IS THE CONVERSATION OF SETTING IT TO THE FAA
AND DOES THAT MAKE SENSE NEIGHBORHOOD BY NEIGHBORHOOD AND
LOOKING AT WHERE THOSE BUFFERS IMPACT CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS
AND WHAT MIGHT BE COMPATIBLE OR NOT.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE THE MOST DENSITY AND
INTENSITY IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ARE VERY CLOSE TO EITHER
PETER O. KNIGHT OR TAMPA INTERNATIONAL.
WE'RE NOT HERE TO RECOMMEND IT BECAUSE WE NEED TO LOOK AT A
FINE GRAIN LEVEL AT EACH OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS TO FIGURE OUT

IS THE FAA LIMIT 50 FEET HERE OR 90 FEET?
2:20:52PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO CONTINUE THIS THEN
AND LOOK AT IT MORE?
2:20:56PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
WE COULD.
THE ONLY OTHER FACTOR IMPACTING THIS, AND THIS WAS ITEM
NUMBER 2 TODAY IS THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT INCREASING WHAT
THOSE MAXIMUMS ARE THROUGH POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE BONUS.
THE INFORMATION I HAVE FOR YOU TODAY IS BASED UPON YOUR
CURRENT CATEGORIES.
IF YOU DIRECT US TO MOVE FORWARD WITH INCREASING THE BONUS
AND TAKING THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING APPROACH WITH THAT, IT'S
GOING TO AFFECT, AGAIN, WHAT AREAS OF THE CITY WILL BE
BUMPING UP AGAINST THE FAA.
IT MIGHT CHANGE WHEN WE COME BACK WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE
RECOMMENDATIONS AT YOUR WORKSHOP IN THE FALL.
THAT'S WHAT IS CHANGING.
2:21:30PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I SAID THE FAA LIMIT AS AN ARBITRARY LIMIT
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ONE WE CONTROL.
THE BOARD, I THINK THE AVIATION AUTHORITY SITTING AS THE
BOARD OF AVIATION, FAA APPROVAL DECIDES THAT.
BUT ANYWAY, THE IDEA WOULD BE TO ALLOW BY RIGHT DEVELOPERS
IN CERTAIN AREAS, LIKE BETWEEN ON DALE MABRY BETWEEN 275 AND
KENNEDY JUST ONE BLOCK EITHER DIRECTION TO GO UP TO A LARGER
HEIGHT.
SO WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO CONTINUE THIS TO THAT AUGUST

WORKSHOP?
2:22:04PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
WE CAN CONTINUE THIS, BUT I WOULD STILL
LIKE TO CAUTION, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL HAVE
RECOMMENDATIONS AT THAT POINT.
BECAUSE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP CHANGES OR THE ENTITLEMENTS
IN THE FUTURE LAND USES CHANGE, THEN THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE
GOING TO CHANGE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE INCREASING WHAT
CAN BE BUILT IN THAT LAND USE CATEGORY.
2:22:22PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WILL WE KNOW THAT BY AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER?
2:22:24PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
NO, BUT I THINK WE CAN HAVE THE
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE IN SEPTEMBER
BASED UPON WHAT WE HEAR AND HOW FAA WOULD FIT OR NOT FIT
INTO THAT.
2:22:34PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WHEN WOULD YOU RECOMMEND BRINGING IT BACK?
2:22:36PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
AFTER SEPTEMBER.
2:22:37PM >>BILL CARLSON:
OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER?
I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR OUT WE GO?
IF I'M NOT HERE, YOU ALL CAN CANCEL IT.
2:22:50PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO TODAY IS GO
THROUGH AND PICK OUT SOME OF THE AREAS AND EXPLAIN TO YOU
WHICH ONES ARE ACTUALLY RELEVANT TO THE QUESTIONS.
THAT'S WHAT THE INTENT OF THE MAPS ARE THAT I HAVE IN THE
PRESENTATION THAT WE'D LIKE TO GO THROUGH.
2:23:02PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF ME SETTING IT UP IS
JUST THAT I WAS TRYING TO SAVE TIME.

SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THIS, IF WE COULD FOCUS ON
THE MAPS AND DISCUSS THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE MOST
PRODUCTIVE.
2:23:11PM >>ABBYE FEELEY:
I DON'T WANT TO HIJACK STEPHEN'S
PRESENTATION, HE'S DONE TREMENDOUS.
WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AT THE END REALLY TRY TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT THE OBJECTIVE OF RAISING THOSE HEIGHTS ARE.
RIGHT NOW IF WE RAISE THE HEIGHTS AND WE CREATE A VOLUME,
THE LAND USES DON'T GIVE YOU ENOUGH DENSITY TO GET THERE.
SO THAT'S THE CHALLENGE THAT WE'RE AT.
IF YOU HAVE A CMU 35 AND YOU ONLY GET F.A.R. OF 2 BUT YOUR
BUILDING COULD BE 400 FEET, YOU'LL NEVER GET THERE BECAUSE
YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ENTITLEMENT TO FILL THE VOLUME.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE AS WE PREPARED FOR THIS BETWEEN
PLANNING AND ZONING AND WE ALL SAT DOWN WORKING TOGETHER,
THE QUESTIONS CAME UP, WHAT IS THE REAL OBJECTIVE BY
ALLOWING THIS?
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE ROOMS TO GO AT THE CORNER OF DALE
MABRY AND BOYSCOUT, WHICH YOU WOULD THINK, WOW, THAT WOULD
HAVE, IF WE RAISED THAT TO FAA, THE FAA LIMIT THERE IS 22
FEET.
IT HAD TO GET A HEIGHT VARIANCE FROM THE FAA TO BE AT THE
HEIGHT IT'S ACTUALLY AT.
IT GETS A LITTLE BIT COMPLEX.
THAT'S WHY I THINK WE CAN CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT, BUT WE

HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AS TO, OKAY, WHAT IS THE REAL OBJECTIVE
BETWEEN RAISING IT TO FAA?
AVOID VARIANCES, WAIVERS, PDs OR SOME OTHER INTENT YOU'RE
TRYING TO ACHIEVE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW
BACK WITH YOU.
2:24:32PM >>BILL CARLSON:
MY ONLY OBJECTIVE IS TO TRY TO SAVE TIME AND
MONEY FOR DEVELOPERS WHO WANT TO GO UP TO A CERTAIN HEIGHT.
2:24:40PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. BENSON, ARE THESE MAPS GOING TO SHOW THE
FLIGHT PATHS ON THE EAST, WEST RUNWAY AND NORTH, SOUTH,
EAST, RUNWAY?
2:24:49PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
NO.
I PROMISE TO BE BRIEF IF I CAN.
I THINK I CAN GET THROUGH THIS PRETTY QUICKLY.
WE NEED TO START AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LEVEL LIKE WHAT
ABBYE JUST MENTIONED BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT GIVES YOU THE BULK
AND INTENSITY TO GET TO FAA OR NOT GET TO FAA OR EVEN TO
EXCEED FAA.
THE BUFFERS ON THE MAP, THOSE SHOW YOU AT THE CENTER IT'S 30
FEET.
AT THE VERY EDGE WHERE IT IS THE DARKEST GREEN, IT'S 210.
IT'S ABOUT HALF OF THE CITY AND PROJECTS THAT EXCEED THAT,
THEN THERE ARE EXAMPLES IN HERE OF PROJECTS IN SOME OF THESE
AREAS THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY FAA BUT ALSO NOT CONTROLLED BY
FAA THAT ARE EXCEEDING FAA.
THOSE EVEN IF WE MATCHED TO FAA THEY WOULD STILL COME IN AS

A WAIVER BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE VARIANCE AND GET
IT APPROVED FROM THE AVIATION AUTHORITY.
JUST TALKING THROUGH WHAT THE AREAS ARE, ON THE LEFT SIDE,
THE PINK AREA, ALL OF IT THERE IS WESTSHORE OVERLAY.
THAT'S COVERED BY WESTSHORE OVERLAY.
THAT ALIGNS WITH FAA.
ALONG DALE MABRY, ALONG KENNEDY, AND IT'S PRIMARILY THE
COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.
SO THAT'S ALREADY SET.
ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MAP IN THE BUFFER ZONES, YOU SEE
HARBOUR ISLAND ON THE BOTTOM, CHANNEL DISTRICT ON THE RIGHT,
BIG PIECE ON THE RIGHT.
THE WEST SIDE OF THE RIVER, IT IS THE AREA SOUTH OF
UNIVERSITY OF TAMPA, AND THEN ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT
CLUSTER IT'S ENCORE, WHICH, AGAIN, HAS ALREADY BEEN
ENTITLED.
ALREADY COMING THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THE HEIGHTS REDEVELOPMENT AREA, WHICH YOU'RE ALREADY SEEING
THOSE PROJECTS COME THROUGH.
BEYOND THAT, THERE IS NOT A WHOLE LOT THAT WILL HIT 24
FLOORS AND HIT FAA.
THE TWO PIECES THAT DON'T REALLY FALL INTO THIS, IT'S BUSCH
GARDENS TO THE NORTH AND THEN A SMALL PARCEL OUT EAST ON
ADAMO AND 50th.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY PROJECTS THAT CAN HIT UP TO 24 FLOORS AND

THAT WOULD BE TRIGGERING THE FAA WAIVER.
WHEN YOU GO DOWN A LEVEL IS WHERE I THINK WE'RE GETTING INTO
THE AREAS YOU WERE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED.
KENNEDY BOULEVARD POPS UP.
THESE ARE PROJECTS THAT CAN GET GENERALLY UP TO 10 FLOORS.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HOW THE BUFFER LINE IS DRAWN ACROSS
KENNEDY, IN THE CENTER OF KENNEDY AROUND MacDILL, THAT'S
THREE TIMES AS HIGH THAT THE FAA LETS YOU GO TO AS OPPOSED
TO THE EDGES OF DOWNTOWN AND WESTSHORE.
DO YOU REALLY WANT THREE TIMES AS HIGH OF A HEIGHT SET FOR
MIDDLE OF KENNEDY AS OPPOSED TO THE EDGES CLOSER TO DOWNTOWN
AND WESTSHORE?
IT GETS A LITTLE COMPLICATED ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
NEIGHBORHOODS IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH AND IMMEDIATELY TO
THE SOUTH.
AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE REST OF THE AREAS, THE REST OF BUSCH
GARDENS LIGHTS UP.
IN THE SULPHUR SPRINGS AREA, TOD NODE, KMART ON THE WEST
SIDE OF INTERSTATE, DOG TRACK ON THE EAST SIDE.
I THINK THAT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO POTENTIALLY LOOK AT.
AND THEN THE PINK THERE JUST NORTH OF WESTSHORE IS THE AREA
AROUND ONE BUC PLACE, AND THEN TO THE SOUTH, YOU CAN SEE
THAT DALE MABRY AND GANDY AND THEN EVERYTHING ALONG GANDY
GOING WEST, PICKING UP WESTSHORE AND MARINA DISTRICT, ALSO
GETTING UP TO 10 FLOORS.

THAT PROBABLY WOULD BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION.
AND THEN THE REMAINDERS OF WHAT YOU SEE ON THE MAP ARE JUST
THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDORS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
LESS OF AN ISSUE, BUT I THINK SOME OF THE WAIVERS YOU'RE
SEEING ARE STILL IN THE AREAS AND STILL RELEVANT.
IF I CAN SHOW YOU AN EXAMPLE OF THE CENTRAL BUSINESS
DISTRICT ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
FAA GETS YOU UP TO 70 FEET ALONG SORT OF AMALIE ARENA,
COTANCHOBEE PARK.
ONCE YOU GET TO THE NORTH END OF DOWNTOWN, UP TOWARDS THE
INTERSTATE, THAT'S UP TO 130.
AGAIN, EVEN USING FAA, YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE
SPECIFIC BLOCKS AND WHAT THE AREAS ARE AND IF YOU REALLY
WANT TO PROVIDE THE NORTH END 130 AND THE SOUTH END 90.
THIS IS THE WESTSHORE OVERLAY.
AGAIN, IT'S TIED TO FAA.
STARTS AT 30 FEET AROUND INTERNATIONAL PLAZA, BUT YOU CAN
THEORETICALLY GET UP TO 110 FEET IF YOU LOOK WAY OUT EAST ON
HILLSBOROUGH AND HIMES.
THAT PORTION OF THE OVERLAY CAN GO TO 110.
IT IS NOT NECESSARILY CONSISTENT AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY
GOING TO ALIGN WITH WHAT THE VISION IS FOR EACH OF THE
NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND THEN HERE IS THE KENNEDY BOULEVARD EXAMPLE.
ON THE WEST SIDE 110.

EAST SIDE 110.
MIDDLE AROUND MacDILL, 150.
LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT THE LAND USE CATEGORY OR ACTUALLY
SOME EXAMPLES, BECAUSE I THINK THIS WILL HELP ANSWER THE
QUESTION.
THIS IS THE MIDTOWN TOWER, WHICH YOU SAW RECENTLY.
THE UNDERLYING ZONING WAS CI.
SO THAT'S 45 FEET.
THAT'S THE DASHED GREEN LINE.
AGAIN, IT'S WESTSHORE OVERLAY, SO IT LETS YOU GO UP TO WHAT
THE FAA SETS, 90 FEET.
LOOK AT THE ACTUAL PROJECT.
THEY OVERSHOT THAT AND THEY HAD TO GET A VARIANCE FROM THE
AVIATION BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SO IT ENDED UP COMING BACK TO
YOU ANYWAY EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN AN AREA ALREADY CONTROLLED BY
FAA.
KENNEDY BOULEVARD, 2121 WEST KENNEDY, THAT WAS A RECENT
PROJECT.
AGAIN, THE UNDERLYING ZONING GETS YOU TO 45 FEET.
IT'S THE KENNEDY OVERLAY.
THAT IS THE UMU 60.
GETS YOU UP TO 10 FLOORS IN HEIGHT.
BUT THE FAA WOULD BE 130 IN THIS AREA.
SO THIS IS ONE WHERE IT WOULD HAVE PROBABLY BEEN WITHIN WHAT
FAA WOULD SET.

AND THEN THE LAST EXAMPLE I WANT TO SHOW YOU IS BOULEVARD
AND CLEVELAND.
THE FAA WAS 110.
AND THEY ENDED UP COMING IN WITH 260.
AGAIN THAT ONE HAD TO GET APPROVAL FROM THE FAA, BUT THAT
WAIVER WOULD NOT HAVE GONE AWAY.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE NECESSARILY SAVED ANY TIME BECAUSE THEY
WERE GOING TO EXCEED IT ANYWAY.
WHAT WE WERE -- THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD INITIALLY, IS
IT A COMP PLAN ISSUE OR A ZONING ISSUE BECAUSE WE REALLY
NEED TO START AT THE COMP PLAN TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU DO
DECIDE TO INCREASE THE ENTITLEMENTS FOR A BONUS ONLY, WHAT
AREA IS THAT GOING TO BE IN?
WHAT ARE THE NODES WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER TODAY THAT YOU'RE
GOING TO PROVIDE THE ADDITIONALLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING BONUS
AND WHERE IS THAT ACTUALLY GOING TO GET YOU UP TO FAA?
THAT IS THE CONVERSATION THAT HAPPENS FIRST.
IF WE TRY TO FIX IT NOW, WE'LL END UP POTENTIALLY CHANGING
IT IN SEPTEMBER.
AND THEN JUST A QUESTION OF ARE WE TRYING TO DISCOURAGE
PROJECTS FROM EXCEEDING.
I THINK YOU ANSWERED THESE.
WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHERE WE'LL GO FROM THE LAND USE
PERSPECTIVE, WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION WE WOULD HAVE FOR YOU
TODAY OR IN SEPTEMBER WOULDN'T REALLY BE RELEVANT.

2:30:44PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
2:30:46PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IS THERE A WAY THAT WHEN YOU COME BACK IN
SEPTEMBER WE CAN JUST FOLD THIS CONVERSATION INTO THE OTHER
CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING?
2:30:53PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
YES, WE CAN DO THAT.
2:30:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
2:30:58PM >>BILL CARLSON:
CAN WE SCHEDULE IT AT THE SAME TIME?
2:31:02PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
YES.
2:31:03PM >>BILL CARLSON:
DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE OTHER ONE IS COMING
BACK?
2:31:05PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
IT WILL BE SEPTEMBER, AND WE SHOULD HAVE
AN IDEA OF WHAT THOSE FLOORS ARE GOING TO BE SET AT, WHAT
THE HEIGHT WILL BE SET AT AT THE LAND USE LEVEL, SO WE CAN
DO THAT.
2:31:15PM >>BILL CARLSON:
COULD I SCHEDULE THIS FOR THE SEPTEMBER
WORKSHOP AND THEN IF WE NEED TO MOVE -- SEPTEMBER 20th --
28th.
IF WE NEED TO MOVE IT, THEN YOU CAN LET US KNOW AND WE'LL
MOVE IT.
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK.
2:31:31PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON, SECONDED BY
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?

MOTION PASSES.
2:31:41PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
I DO HAVE A REQUEST, THOUGH, SINCE
SEPTEMBER SEEMS TO BE WHERE ALL THIS IS SITTING, WE WOULD
LIKE TO REQUEST THAT WE CAN TRY TO RESERVE THAT SEPTEMBER
WORKSHOP FOR ALL OF THESE GROWTH MANAGEMENT LAND USE ITEMS
FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
2:31:53PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I'LL MOVE THAT.
2:31:55PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY -- MR. SHELBY.
2:32:01PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THANK YOU.
JUST FOR THE PURPOSES OF THAT MOTION, THE MOTION IS TO NOT
-- FOR CITY COUNCIL TO NOT SCHEDULE ANY MATTERS FOR THE
WORKSHOP OTHER THAN LAND DEVELOPMENT ISSUES.
2:32:15PM >>STEPHEN BENSON:
LAND USE AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
2:32:17PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
LAND USE AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT ISSUES, JUST
SO WE'RE CLEAR FOR THE RECORD.
THANK YOU.
2:32:21PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
THANK YOU.
2:32:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
IS THERE ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION CARRIES.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER -- ARE WE GOING TO DO 10?

I THINK, COUNCILMAN GUDES, YOU STILL WANTED TO HEAR NUMBER
10.
2:32:46PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
NO, NO.
2:32:47PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 11.
FILE CM22-77481.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
2:32:58PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
I JUST WANTED TO SET THIS UP THAT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A
PRESENTATION OF BOTH STAFF AND THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE
STAKEHOLDER GROUP.
STAFF WANTED TO CONTINUE THIS FOR THEIR PART, BUT THE
STAKEHOLDERS WERE PREPARED AND READY.
SO WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO HEAR WHAT THE STAKEHOLDERS HAVE
TO SAY ABOUT THIS PURE PROJECT AND THE BEST AND WORST-CASE
SCENARIOS OF CONTINUING WITH THE WATER STATUS QUO AND
TALKING ALSO ABOUT SENATE BILL 64, MINIMUM FLOWS ON THE
HILLSBOROUGH RIVER AND DROUGHT-PROOFING THE RESERVOIR.
2:33:50PM >> MY NAME IS SID FLANNERY.
I'VE SPOKEN TO YOU A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE.
I SPENT MY CAREER IN WATER RESOURCES MANAGEMENT AND WORKED
FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS FOR THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, RETIRED AS CHIEF ENVIRONMENTAL
SCIENTIST.
WORKED ON MINIMUM FLOWS, SPECIALIZING IN FRESHWATER FLOWS TO
ESTUARY.

I WORKED ON THE MINIMUM FLOWS FOR HILLSBOROUGH RIVER,
SULPHUR SPRINGS AND TAMPA BYPASS CANAL.
JUST AS IMPORTANTLY I WORKED ON THE WATER USE PERMITS FOR
THE CITY OF TAMPA.
GIVEN THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL DISCUSSION I WOULD POINT OUT FOR
THE LAST 27 YEARS I'VE BEEN A BLUEGRASS MUSIC PROGRAMMER AT
WMNF IN TAMPA.
WE DIDN'T BRING ANY BANJOS IN, SO THANK OUR STARS FOR THAT.
TODAY, I'M REPRESENTING A CITIZENS' STAKEHOLDERS GROUP THAT
THE CITY WATER DEPARTMENT HAS FACILITATED SINCE DECEMBER
2020.
WE HAVE MET WITH THE CITY WATER DEPARTMENT PROBABLY ABOUT 20
TIMES AND WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING CLOSELY THE CITY'S PLANS AND
OPTIONS FOR REROUTING AND REUSING RECLAIMED WATER FROM THE
HOWARD F. CURREN WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT THAT NOW
DISCHARGES TO TAMPA BAY.
AS YOU NOTE, SENATE BILL 64 THAT WAS PASSED BY THE FLORIDA
LEGISLATURE IN 2021 REQUIRES UTILITIES TO LARGELY ELIMINATE
SURFACE WATER DISCHARGES OF TREATED WASTEWATER FROM
FACILITIES SUCH AS THE HOWARD F. CURREN PLANT.
OUR STAKEHOLDERS YUCATAN PENINSULA HAS BEEN FOLLOWING HOW
THE CITY CAN MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS BILL AND THAT'S
WHAT I'LL BE SPEAKING TO YOU ABOUT BRIEFLY TODAY.
IN THAT REGARD, THE CITY HAS IDENTIFIED THREE FACTORS THAT
MUST ADDRESS WITH REGARD TO SENATE BILL 64 VERSUS

MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO.
THOSE THREE FACTORS ARE THEY HAVE TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS
OF THE BILL.
IT'S THE WATER DEPARTMENT'S UNDERSTANDING TO MEET THE
REQUIREMENTS OF SENATE BILL 64 THEY HAVE TO ELIMINATE AN
AVERAGE OF 50 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER OF DISCHARGE FROM
HOWARD F. CURREN PLANT PER YEAR ON AVERAGE AND REROUTE IT
SOMEWHERE ELSE.
YOU'LL HEAR ME SAY MGD.
THAT STANDS FOR MILLION GALLONS A DAY.
AGAIN, 50 MILLION GALLONS A DAY TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF
THE STATUTE.
SECONDLY, TWO PRINCIPAL PURPOSES ARE TO MEET THE MINIMUM
FLOWS FOR THE LOWER HILLSBOROUGH RIVER TO PROVIDE FLOW TO
THE RIVER BELOW THE DAM WHEN OTHERWISE NO FLOW.
THE THIRD PURPOSE WOULD BE TO HELP DROUGHT-PROOF THE
RESERVOIR DURING THE DRY SEASON.
SO HERE WE HAVE ON THE SCREEN, OF COURSE, THE CITY OF
TAMPA'S DAMS, ABOUT TEN MILES UPSTREAM FROM THE MOUTH OF THE
HILLSBOROUGH RIVER.
THE HOWARD F. CURREN DISCHARGE TREATMENT PLANT, HOOKER'S
POINTE ABOUT 2.5 MILES SOUTH OF THE MOUTH OF THE
HILLSBOROUGH RIVER DIRECTLY IN SEDDON CHANNEL OPPOSITE THE
SOUTHERN TIP OF DAVIS ISLANDS.
THE NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS TO GIVE YOU SOME GOOD PERSPECTIVE.
THESE ARE MONTHLY DISCHARGES FROM THE HOWARD F. CURREN
WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT FROM 2013 TO ABOUT MAY OF 2021.
YOU CAN SEE IT DOES VARY SOMEWHAT SEASONALLY.
WHAT I HAVE THERE, THE ORANGE LINE IS A REFERENCE LINE.
THAT'S 50 MGD.
THAT'S THE AVERAGE QUANTITY OF DISCHARGE THE CITY WOULD HAVE
TO ELIMINATE AT THIS LOCATION AND REROUTE TO BE IN
COMPLIANCE WITH SENATE BILL 64.
ONE THING I WANT TO POINT OUT WITH THIS REGARD IS THAT THIS
DISCHARGE HAS BEEN FUNCTIONING ACTUALLY QUITE WELL.
AS YOU KNOW TO THE WILSON GRISSELL BILL AND GRISSELL FIG
BILL, THE CITY OF TAMPA HAD TO UPGRADE THEIR WATER TREATMENT
PLANT TO TERTIARY TREATMENT STANDARDS.
IT'S VERY GOOD.
TAMPA BAY HAS BEEN A SUCCESS STORY.
MANY ECOLOGICAL PARAMETERS HAVE BEEN IMPROVING FOR DECADES
IN LARGE PART TO THE TREATMENT OF THE HOWARD F. CURREN
PLANT.
COUPLE OF YEARS LITTLE DOWN TURN IN SEA GRASS COVERAGE.
SEA GRASS LONG TERM HAS BEEN INCREASING.
WE CAN COME BACK TO THAT.
THIS WATER TREATMENT PLANT HAS BEEN FUNCTIONING VERY WELL
AND TAMPA BAY HAS BEEN DOING WELL IN ITSELF.
THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

BEFORE WE THINK ABOUT THE NEXT SLIDE, LET ME SPEAK GENERALLY
ABOUT SENATE BILL 64.
LET'S KEEP IN MIND ABOUT 85 TO 90% OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA
GETS ITS PUBLIC SUPPLY FROM GROUNDWATER FROM WELLS.
THAT'S WHAT IS TYPICALLY DONE IN FLORIDA.
AND I THINK THIS BILL MIGHT FIT THAT CAUSE PRETTY WELL, IF
YOU ARE A SMALL COMMUNITY IN SOUTHERN POLK COUNTY AND WITH
AQUIFER STRESS THAT'S ONE THING.
BUT THIS BILL IS AN AWKWARD FIT FOR UTILITIES THAT USE
RIVERS FOR WATER SUPPLY.
IT REALLY HAS DIFFICULTY IN BEING APPLIED WELL IF YOU USE A
RIVER SUPPLY THAT THE CITY OF TAMPA HAS BEEN DOING OVER A
HUNDRED YEARS.
THE NEXT GRAPHIC, I GOT THIS FROM THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA
WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.
BUT I PUT THE WORDS IN AT THE TOP IN YELLOW.
THESE ARE THE NUMBERS OF NO-FLOW DAYS AT THE HILLSBOROUGH
RIVER DAM.
LET ME FIRST POINT OUT WATER FLOW RECORDS OF THE DAM GO BACK
TO THE 1940s.
PRIOR TO 1970s, THERE WAS ALWAYS FLOW OVER THE DAM.
BUT AS WATER SUPPLY INCREASED, WE STARTED TO GET NO-FLOW
DAYS.
WHAT YOU SEE IN THE NO-FLOW DAYS, THOSE ARE THE DAIS THAT
MINIMUM FLOWS WOULD BE IN EFFECT.

LET ME FIRST STOP AND JUST SAY FOR A SECOND, THOUGH THAT THE
EXISTING REGULATORY MINIMUM FLOWS OF THE RIVER CAN BE MET
WITH EXISTING WATER RESOURCES.
SULPHUR SPRINGS, BLUE SINK AND THE TAMPA BYPASS CANAL.
THE EXISTING WATER RESOURCES CAN MEET THE EXISTING
REGULATORY MINIMUM FLOW RATES FOR LOWER HILLSBOROUGH RIVER.
THE IMPORTANT THING TO POINT OUT IN THIS GRAPHIC THOUGH IS
LOOK AT HOW MUCH VARIABILITY, HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE THERE IS
BETWEEN YEARS AND HOW MANY TIMES THERE'S NO FLOW DAYS AT THE
DAM.
AGAIN, VERTICAL BARS REPRESENT THE NUMBER OF NO FLOW DAYS AT
THE DAM.
THE HIGHEST WE EVER SAW WAS IN YEAR 2000, OVER 300 DAYS OF
NO FLOW.
ALSO NOTICED -- YOU HEAR BRAD BAIRD TALK ABOUT THIS -- A
VERY PRONOUNCED DRY PERIOD FROM 2006 TO 2010 WE HAD A NUMBER
OF DRY YEARS.
BUT LOOK AT THE WET YEARS, THE LOW BARS.
DURING 2003, THERE WAS ONLY NINE DAYS OF NO FLOW OVER THE
DAM.
SO VIRTUALLY ALL YEAR THERE WAS FLOW OVER THE DAM.
ALSO LOOK IN RECENT YEARS, THE LOW FLOW DAYS HAVE BEEN LESS.
LOOK AT 2014 TO 2015.
IN 2014, THERE'S ONLY 31 DAYS OF NO FLOW.
IN 2015, THERE WAS 36 DAYS OF NO FLOW.

SO FOR THOSE TWO YEARS IN A ROW, YOU HAD ABOUT 330 DAYS IN
THE YEAR WHEN THERE WAS NO NEED FOR MINIMUM FLOWS.
SO THIS BASIC THING FOR RECLAIMED WATER WE SIMPLY DIDN'T
NEED IT.
THERE'S TREMENDOUS VARIATION FROM YEAR TO YEAR ON HOW OFTEN
RECLAIMED WATER IS GOING TO BE NEEDED FOR MINIMUM FLOWS.
SIMILARLY, THIS HAS VERY GOOD APPLICATION TO WATER SUPPLY.
WHEN THERE'S FLOW OVER THE DAM, THE CITY CAN COMPLETELY MEET
THEIR WATER SUPPLY NEEDS WITH THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER.
SO IN 2015 AND 2013, YOU HAD TWO YEARS IN A ROW WHERE THE
CITY COULD MEET ITS WATER SUPPLY NEEDS FOR AVERAGE OF 330
DAYS PER YEAR.
SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, YOUR TWO PRINCIPAL NEEDS FOR RIMMED
WATER, MINIMUM FLOWS AND -- RESERVOIR, YOU DON'T NEED FOR
NEARLY MOST OF THE YEARS IN WET YEARS.
SO THIS IS KIND OF A PROBLEM.
NORMALLY IN WATER MANAGEMENT, YOU WANT TO ADJUST YOUR
OPERATIONS BASED ON CLIMATIC CONDITIONS.
THAT'S KIND OF WATER MANAGEMENT 101.
SENATE BILL 64, WHICH REQUIRES A CITY TO ELIMINATE AN
AVERAGE OF 50 MGD REALLY DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR THAT.
SO THE QUESTION WOULD BE, WHERE IS THIS WATER GOING TO GO
WHEN THERE'S NO NEED FOR MINIMUM FLOWS OR DROUGHT-PROOF THE
RESERVOIR?
THE CITY LOOKED AT VARIOUS OPTIONS.

ONE OF THE OPTIONS THEY CONSIDER IS CALLED AQUIFER STORAGE
AND RECOVERY WHERE YOU PUMP WATER INTO THE GROUND DURING WET
PERIODS, YOU TAKE IT BACK UP IN DRY PERIODS.
THEY DO THAT NOW WITH RIVER WATER THAT THEY TREAT.
USING DOMESTIC WASTEWATER IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MORE
COMPLICATED SITUATION.
THERE ARE COMPOUNDS IN TREATED DOMESTIC WASTEWATER YOU HAVE
TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT.
IT WOULD REQUIRE CONSIDERABLE WATER TREATMENT AND EXPENSE
AND YOU HAVE TO BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR INJECTION WELLS
AND RECOVERY WELLS.
YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE A MISTAKE WITH THE FLORIDAN AQUIFER.
MY POINT IN TELLING YOU THIS IS TO DO THESE SORT OF THINGS,
REROUTE 50 MGD WILL COST MONEY.
IT'S IMPORTANT.
LET'S ONLY DO THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE REALLY NEED TO,
THAT IT'S NEED FOR RECLAIMED WATER, NOT THE FACT THAT THERE
IS THIS ONE SIZE FITS ALL BILL OUT OF TALLAHASSEE THAT SAYS
YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH 50 MGD EVERY YEAR.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
I'LL GET TO THIS IN A SECOND.
I JUMPED AHEAD.
IN PART TO DEAL WITH THIS, WE DEVELOPED SOME SIMPLE LANGUAGE
THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THE STATUTE TO DEAL WITH THE
SITUATION.

WHAT YOU DO BETWEEN WET YEARS AND DRY YEARS, AND WHAT THIS
SAYS IS A -- WHEN WE SAY A DEPARTMENT, THAT IS THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION.
A UTILITY MAY APPLY TO THE DEPARTMENT FOR YEARLY VARIANCES
FROM THE AVERAGE GALLONS PER DAY OF EFFLUENT, RECLAIMED
WATER OR REUSE WATER THAT WAS NOT DISCHARGED TO SURFACE
WATER AND THE AVERAGE GALLONS OF DISCHARGE THAT CONTINUED AT
THE SURFACE WATER SITE.
SO UTILITY GO, YEAH, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MEET AN AVERAGE, GEE,
WE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH DEMAND FOR RECLAIMED WATER THIS YEAR OR
WE HAVE A CHEMICAL CONSTITUENT OF CONCERN THAT IS GETTING
HIGH.
WE WANT TO BACK OFF ON CERTAIN THINGS OR GETTING BACK
PRESSURE IN WELLS.
SIMPLY ALLOWS UTILITIES TO REACT DESPITE SITE-SPECIFIC
CONDITIONS AND GET A YEARLY VARIANCE FROM THE AVERAGES.
EVERYBODY SEEMS TO ACCEPT THIS.
BUT THE THING THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING, TOO, CAME UP THIS
PAST SUMMER.
THERE ARE -- THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE STATUTE THAT
DISCHARGES CAN CEASE OR BE EXEMPTED IF THEY MEET CERTAIN
CONDITIONS, UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO
ELIMINATE THE SURFACE DISCHARGE.
HERE IS ONE THAT'S REALLY RELEVANT.
IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, THAT DISCHARGE NOT HAVE TO BE ELIMINATED,

IF THE DISCHARGE PROVIDES DIRECT ECOLOGICAL OR PUBLIC SUPPLY
BENEFITS SUCH AS REHYDRATING WETLANDS OR MEETING MINIMUM
FLOWS AND LEVELS OR RECOVERY OR PREVENTION STRATEGIES FOR A
WATER BODY.
WELL, THIS SUMMER, THE CITY WATER DEPARTMENT PUT THE SUBJECT
ON THE TABLE, ARE THERE BENEFITS OF THE DISCHARGE HOWARD F.
CURREN TO TAMPA BAY?
THEY PUT THAT ON THE TABLE TO CONSIDER.
I VOLUNTEERED TO WRITE A REPORT IN THAT REGARD.
I WROTE A 20-PAGE REPORT, A TECHNICAL SCIENTIFIC REPORT,
TALKING ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF THE HOWARD F. CURREN DISCHARGE
TO TAMPA BAY.
I GAVE IT TO THE CITY TO REVIEW.
THEY MADE SOME EDITS TO THE FIRST DRAFT.
AND THIS SORT OF THING WENT QUITE WELL, ACTUALLY.
NOVEMBER 8th, THE CITY WATER DEPARTMENT SUBMITTED THIS TO
THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TO SEE IF
THEY COULD BE A DETERMINATION OF BENEFICIAL EFFECTS.
THEY SENT IT TO DEP'S SOUTHWEST DISTRICT OFFICE IN TEMPLE
TERRACE, THE WASTEWATER MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
A WEEK LATER THEY GOT A REPLY BACK FROM DEP.
SAID, NO, WE CANNOT RECOGNIZE ANY ECOLOGICAL BENEFITS
EFFECTS.
AND ONE-SENTENCE E-MAIL.
TO HIS CREDIT, CHUCK WEBER, THE WATER DEPARTMENT E-MAILED

BACK AND GOES, "CAN YOU TELL US WHY NOT?"
THE NEXT DAY THEY GOT ANOTHER E-MAIL.
LET ME QUOTE FROM IT.
IT WAS VERY BRIEF AND THIS CAPTURES THE ESSENCE OF THE
PROBLEM.
THE DEP REPLIED, "THE ECOLOGICAL BENEFIT PROVISION IN SENATE
BILL 64 ADDRESSES THE WATER QUANTITY THROUGH IMPLEMENTATION
OF MINIMUM FLOW AND MINIMUM LEVEL (MFL) REQUIREMENTS.
MARINE DISCHARGES DO NOT HAVE AN MFL CLASSIFICATION.
THEREFORE, DISCHARGE OF HOWARD F. CURREN WASTEWATER
TREATMENT PLANT AS CURRENTLY EXISTS DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR THE
ECOLOGICAL BENEFIT PROVISION IN SENATE BILL 64."
THAT'S NOT A TECHNICAL SCIENTIFIC CONCLUSION.
THAT IS BASICALLY SOMEBODY IN THE TEMPLE TERRACE OFFICE
SAYING, WELL, THE LEGISLATION SAID MINIMUM FLOWS AND LEVELS.
WE DON'T HAVE MINIMUM FLOWS AND LEVELS FOR TAMPA BAY, SO YOU
CAN'T DO IT.
WELL, THIS IS TREMENDOUSLY IRONIC.
ESTUARIES ARE TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT RESOURCES.
AND THE FRESHWATER FLOW THAT LEAVES THE HOWARD F. CURREN
PLANT IN PART REPLACES WATER THAT'S TAKEN FROM THE RIVER FOR
WATER SUPPLY.
THE FACT THAT IT DISCHARGES TO THE BAY DOWNSTREAM OF THE
MOUTH OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER DOES NOT NEGATE ITS
ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS.

TAMPA BAY DOES NOT STOP AT THE MOUTH OF THE HILLSBOROUGH
RIVER.
REALLY, THAT'S NOT A TECHNICALLY SOUND CONCLUSION; IT'S
REALLY DUE TO THE LACK OF CLARITY IN SENATE BILL 64.
COULD WE HAVE THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE?
SO IN THAT REGARD, WE PREPARED LANGUAGE WHICH IS THIS.
THE EXISTING STATUTE LANGUAGE IS IN WHITE.
THAT'S WHY I READ TO YOU BEFORE, THAT YOU CANNOT ELIMINATE A
DISCHARGE THAT PROVIDES THE BENEFITS.
MINIMUM FLOWS, PREVENTION STRATEGIES.
WHAT WE ADDED IS ADDED THE LANGUAGE BELOW IN YELLOW.
FOR WATER BODIES THAT DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE SUCH MANAGEMENT
PLANS OR REGULATIONS, INCLUDING ESTUARINE WATERS, THE
DEPARTMENT MAY RECOGNIZE THE ECOLOGICAL BENEFITS OF A
SURFACE WATER DISCHARGE TO A WATER BODY BASED ON DATA OR
OTHER INFORMATION FOR THAT SYSTEM.
SO ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, DEP CAN LOOK AT TAMPA BAY AND
SAY, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE A MINIMUM FLOW LEVEL FOR TAMPA BAY
BUT CLEARLY THERE ARE BENEFITS.
WE CAN RECOGNIZE THAT.
THAT'S ALL THAT SIMPLY ALLOWS THEM TO DO.
QUESTION AT THIS TIME?
2:46:37PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, ARE YOU READY FOR
QUESTIONS?
2:46:40PM >> I'M CLOSE.

2:46:41PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION THAT HAS TO DO
WITH THIS IN PARTICULAR.
FOR WATER BODIES, FOR THESE ESTUARIAN WATERS, HOW MANY OTHER
CITIES IN FLORIDA DISCHARGE THEIR WATER TO A BAY OR AN
ESTUARY LIKE THIS THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED?
DO YOU KNOW?
2:47:01PM >> I CAN'T SAY.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT MIAMI DOES, THAT KIND OF THING.
2:47:03PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
NO WORRIES.
2:47:05PM >> REALLY, IT'S JUST KIND OF A TECHNICALITY THAT DISCHARGES
THE SEDDON CHANNEL.
THAT DOESN'T COUNT.
THERE ARE VOLUMES OF SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE ABOUT THE
IMPORTANCE OF FRESHWATER FLOW TO ESTUARIES FOR FISHERY
PRODUCTION, CIRCULATION.
THE FACT THIS CHARGES SEDDON CHANNEL DOES NOT NEGATE
ECOLOGICAL IMPORTANCE.
THIS IS LANGUAGE THAT DEP CAN LOOK AT THIS.
WHAT I WANT TO DO IS GIVE YOU TWO CONCLUDING SLIDES.
I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, WE HAVE WRITTEN A DOCUMENT WHICH I
PRESENTED TO YOU ON DECEMBER 1st.
SAID THIS IS LANGUAGE THAT CAN BE ADDED TO THE STATUTE TO
PROVIDE CLARIFICATION.
WE'RE NOT SUGGESTING CHANGING ANY PART OF THE STATUTE,

SIMPLY ADDING TWO FAIRLY SIMPLE PASSAGES THAT I'VE BEEN
SHOWING YOU.
NEXT, PLEASE.
I'M TOWARDS THE END.
I WANT TO EMPHASIZE WHAT YOU'RE RECOGNIZING, THAT OUR
PROPOSED ADDITIONS TO THE STATUTE WILL NOT PROHIBIT THE
PURSUIT OF RECLAIMED WATER PROJECTS USING DISCHARGE HOWARD
F. CURREN ADVANCED WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.
IF WE RECOGNIZE THERE ARE BENEFITS OF THIS FLOW TO TAMPA
BAY, THIS WILL ALLOW THE CITY TO EXAMINE RECLAIMED WATER
PROJECT THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS.
MAYBE IN A DRY YEAR YOU NEED 30 MGD OF RECLAIMED WATER, IN A
WET YEAR ONLY 5.
YOU CAN TAILOR MAKE THE RECLAIMED WATER PROJECTS TO THE
CITY'S NEEDS.
IF THE REMAINING FLOWS TO TAMPA BAY, THAT'S OKAY.
IT'S SERVING A BENEFIT.
SECONDLY, THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS WILL NOT PROHIBIT THE
PURSUIT OF NATURAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES SUCH AS
NUTRIENT LOAD REDUCTIONS OR HABITAT RESTORATION PROJECTS
INVOLVED IN THE RECLAIMED WATER.
IF THE ESTUARY -- LET'S SAY YOU DO THE TOP ONE AND WE FIND
OUT, WELL, THE MOST DESIRABLE RECLAIMED WATER PROJECT
REDUCES THE NITROGEN LOAD BY 20% AND THE NEP COMES BACK FIVE
YEARS LATER, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE 50%.

THIS DOESN'T PRECLUDE THAT.
THIS DOESN'T PRECLUDE RECLAIMED WATER PROJECTS OR THE
PURSUIT.
IT SIMPLY GIVES THE CITY MUCH MORE FLEXIBILITY TO DEVELOP
PROJECTS THAT MEETS YOUR NEEDS AND THE NEEDS OF THE
RESOURCE.
THAT'S A FAR DIFFERENT SCENARIO THAN SAYING YOU HAVE TO DO
SOMETHING WITH 50 MGD OF WASTEWATER EVERY YEAR.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
AN AVERAGE OF 50 MGD.
THAT'S RIGHT.
SO, GO DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
SO WHAT DO THESE PROPOSED ADDITIONS DO?
IT WILL GIVE UTILITIES MUCH-NEEDED OPERATIONAL FLEXIBILITY
TO DEVELOP RECLAIMED WATER PROJECTS THAT ARE DESIGNED AND
TAILORED TO THEIR NEEDS AND THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THEIR
WATER RESOURCE WITH PROJECTS THAT ARE, NUMBER ONE, IN
QUANTITIES THAT ARE TRULY NEEDED, WHICH WILL VARY SEASONALLY
AND GREATLY BETWEEN WET AND DRY YEARS.
VERY IMPORTANTLY THIS WILL ALLOW THE CITY TO DEVELOP
PROJECTS THAT ARE COST-EFFECTIVE, DEALING WITH THE AMOUNT
YOU NEED IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN DEALING WITH 15 MGD.
VERY MUCH RELATED TO THAT PROJECTS THAT ARE SAFE FOR THEIR
DESIGNATED USES.
DEVELOPING RECLAIMED WATER FOR POTABLE SUPPLY INVOLVES VERY

EXTENSIVE WATER TREATMENT, WHICH COULD BE DIFFERENT THAN
PUTTING IT IN THE RIVER, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN LAWN
IRRIGATION.
SO WHEN YOU ACTUALLY TAILOR MAKE TO THE QUANTITY YOU REALLY
NEED TO MAKE IT SAFE THAT WILL AFFECT THE COST-EFFECTIVENESS
OF THIS WHOLE THING.
IT'S MORE PROTECTIVE OF THE WATER RESOURCES AND NATURAL
SYSTEMS AND MORE IN THE BEST PUBLIC INTEREST.
SO IN ESSENCE WHAT WE ARE DOING IS SIMPLY TRYING TO GET THIS
CLARIFICATION INTO THE STATUTE TO GIVE THE CITY MUCH MORE
FLEXIBILITY THAT WOULD BE VERY VALUABLE.
LAST SLIDE, PLEASE.
SO WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
WE HAVE PREPARED A DOCUMENT THAT WE'VE SUBMITTED TO SOME
LEGISLATORS THAT ADD LANGUAGE TO STRENGTHEN AND CLARIFY THE
STATUTE THAT RESULTED FROM SENATE BILL 64.
YOU MAY RECALL I PRESENTED THAT TO YOU AT YOUR DECEMBER
1st MEETING AND COUNCIL TOOK A MOTION TO ASK THE CITY
ADMINISTRATION TO PURSUE LEGAL AND LOBBYING EFFORTS TO SEE
IF THEY COULD DO THAT.
ON JANUARY 12th, YOU GOT A MEMO FROM THE GOVERNMENT
AFFAIRS OFFICE AT THE CITY, NO, WE CAN'T PURSUE THAT,
BECAUSE, IN THEIR INTERPRETATION -- THEIR MISINTERPRETATION,
WE CANNOT ASK FOR THE CITY TO BE EXEMPTED FROM SENATE BILL
64.

THAT'S A VERY BAD MISINTERPRETATION OF OUR DOCUMENT.
OUR DOCUMENT DOESN'T CALL FOR EXEMPTION FROM SENATE BILL 64.
IT ACTUALLY PROVIDES THE FLEXIBILITY IN THE SENATE BILL 64.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT -- THAT WAS MISSTATED BY THAT PARTICULAR
-- I THINK THEY MEANT WELL.
THEY JUST DIDN'T THINK CLOSELY ENOUGH ABOUT THAT.
HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET IT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND THAT CAN
PROBABLY BE A TOUGH SELL.
THE NEXT THING TO DO IS AMEND THE FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE
CODE.
THIS IS THE BODY OF REGULATIONS THAT DETERMINE HOW
REGULATORY AGENCIES WORK.
AT THE FACILITATED MEETING THAT THE CITY PUT ON ABOUT A
MONTH AGO, THERE WAS A FELLA THAT USED TO WORK FOR DEP, NOW
WORKS FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
HE SAID THAT'S A POSSIBLE OPTION.
THE OTHER IS TO INTERACT DIRECTLY WITH F DEP.
SAY, TALLAHASSEE, CAN WE RECOGNIZE THE ECOLOGICAL BENEFITS?
WE NEED TO PURSUE ON ALL THESE FRONTS.
I THINK THEY ARE BEST AT THE TOP.
MY RECOMMENDATION WITH YOU, I HOPE THAT COUNCIL CAN SUPPORT
US IN THESE EFFORTS.
I CONSIDER THIS TO BE A WIN-WIN PROPOSITION.
IT ALLOWS THE CITY TO TAILOR MAKE YOUR RECLAIMED WATER,
INVESTIGATIONS TO YOUR RESOURCE, YOUR COST, AND THE ECOLOGY

OF OUR SYSTEM AND OUR GROUNDWATER RESOURCES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I'LL ASK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION SUPPORT THIS AS WELL.
THANK YOU.
2:52:13PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED.
2:52:19PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS.
THIS WAS VERY CLEAR.
VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND.
I THINK PROVIDES EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO HEAR ABOUT WAYS WE
CAN GO FORWARD WITH THIS.
I'M HOPING THAT IF YOU HAVE A PowerPoint VERSION OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SHARE YOUR
SLIDES WITH ALL OF US THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT AND MOVE FORWARD
WITH IT.
2:52:44PM >> YES, I CERTAINLY CAN.
2:52:45PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH, AGAIN, I
THINK THIS WAS A VERY CLEAR EXPLANATION.
2:52:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
2:52:52PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YEAH, THANK YOU.
THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL THE WORK YOU PUT IN.
I KNOW YOU PUT A LOT OF WORK IN OVER TIME.
JUST A FEW QUESTIONS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY
PARTICULAR OR I'LL JUST ASK THEM.

BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE LEGISLATION WAS WRITTEN, IT SEEMS
LIKE PART OF IT WAS WRITTEN JUST FOR TAMPA.
THERE ARE VERY FEW CITIES THAT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MINIMUM
FLOWS.
ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY CITIES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO --
THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY WORRIED ABOUT MINIMUM FLOWS IN REGARD
TO RECLAIMED WATER?
2:53:27PM >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
EVEN THOUGH I WORK IN THE AREA OF MINIMUM FLOWS, I DON'T
KNOW.
AGAIN, MOST CITIES GET THEIR WATER FROM WELLS, SO THEY ARE
NOT TAKING IT FROM A RIVER, SO I DON'T KNOW.
AND WHAT THE CITY SAID, THE CITY LOBBIED THAT THEY GOT THAT
PROVISION USED FOR MINIMUM FLOWS, WHICH I THINK WAS
BENEFICIAL.
SO I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW ACROSS THE STATE, BUT, AGAIN, TAMPA
IS KIND OF UNUSUAL BECAUSE IT GETS ITS WATER SUPPLY FROM THE
RIVER AND IT HAS TO COMPENSATE WITH MINIMUM FLOWS.
2:54:01PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YOU TALKED ABOUT AQUIFER STORAGE, THIS IS 50
MGD, BUT ALSO ONLY 50 MGD.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA -- I'M NOT ASKING YOU -- IT'S NOT AN
OFFICIAL KIND OF QUESTION, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, COULD THE
CITY GET PERMITS TO PUMP WITHOUT PUTTING THE 50 MGD IN?
BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE MIGHT PUT THE 50 MGD IN FOR

A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME AND THEN MAYBE LESS AND PULL OUT
LATER.
IT'S NOT LIKE ONE TO ONE.
MAYBE CAPACITY TO GET PERMIT FOR GROUNDWATER PUMPING, NO?
2:54:34PM >> WELL, AQUIFER STORAGE AND RECOVERY IS USED WITHIN THE
STATE.
AGAIN, IT'S TYPICALLY USED WITH TREATED RIVER WATER.
CITY OF TAMPA USES TREATED RIVER WATER.
USING IT FOR TREATED DOMESTIC WASTEWATER MIGHT HAVE SOME
DIFFERENT REGULATORY HURDLES.
BUT THE IDEA IS YOU PUMP WATER IN AND BUILD WATER UP AND
THEN YOU TAKE IT OUT.
I DON'T KNOW THE REAL ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.
2:54:55PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I JUST WONDER WITHOUT DOING THE STORAGE IF
THERE'S ANY PERMITTABLE WATER DOWN THERE.
YOU MENTIONED THAT THE DEP, WE SAW THE E-MAIL LIKE A
ONE-SENTENCE E-MAIL AND RESPONSE LIKE A ONE-SENTENCE E-MAIL.
IT WAS NOTHING OFFICIAL AT ALL.
I WOULD ADVOCATE THAT WE SHOULD GO BEFORE FDEP AND DO
SOMETHING OFFICIAL.
I WISH CITY COUNCIL COULD HIRE THEIR OWN LOBBYIST.
OUTSIDE OF THE CITY I WANT TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF YOU ALL.
I THINK THIS IS A HORRIBLE BURDEN ON TAXPAYERS.
2:55:26PM >> THERE WERE ONE OR TWO SENTENCES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
E-MAIL.

THAT WAS ABOUT IT.
THAT WAS THE PUNCH LINE.
IT WAS VERY CONCISE.
2:55:32PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SO MANY THINGS LOOKED SUSPICIOUS.
YOU TALKED ABOUT MINIMUM FLOWS, IF THEY PUT THE WATER JUST
BELOW THE DAM VERSUS PUTTING IT IN SEDDON CHANNEL, DOES IT
REALLY HAVE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENT IMPACT ON THE RIVER?
2:55:50PM >> YES, IT DOES.
RIVERS PROVIDE VERY IMPORTANT LOW SALINITY ZONES.
A LOT OF JUVENILE FISHES TO ACTUALLY MIGRATE INTO THESE LOW
SALINITY ZONES.
I SPENT MY CAREER STUDYING THAT.
BUT HAVING SAID THAT, DISCHARGE AT SEDDON CHANNEL ALSO HAS
BENEFICIAL EFFECTS.
THE MINIMUM FLOW IS AT THE BASE OF THE DAM ARE VERY
IMPORTANT.
2:56:14PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SULPHUR SPRINGS, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY,
PUMPING ABOUT 12 MGD, PLUS OR MINUS.
THEY TALK ABOUT SALTWATER INTRUSION.
WE DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT ONE OF THE
PROPOSALS IS JUST TO STOP PUMPING THE 12 MGD AND BUY IT FROM
TAMPA BAY WATER OR SOMEONE.
TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAS S.W.F.W.M.D. DONE AN ANALYSIS TO SEE
IF THAT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM?
I THINK SOME PEOPLE IN THE WATER DEPARTMENT BELIEVE THAT

THAT WOULD NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM, THAT SALTWATER INTRUSION
WOULD CONTINUE.
2:56:43PM >> THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.
I'VE WORKED EXTENSIVELY ON SULPHUR SPRINGS.
I THINK IN 45 SECONDS I CAN SUMMARIZE THIS FOR YOU.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THE WATER LEVELS IN SULPHUR SPRINGS ARE
MAINTAINED ABOUT 7 FEET ELEVATION.
WHAT THEY DID -- AND I WAS PROJECT MANAGER OF THIS -- IF YOU
LOWER THE WATER LEVEL IN SULPHUR SPRINGS, THAT REDUCES THE
PRESSURE OVER THE SPRING VENT AND IT INDUCES FLOW.
SO IN 2012, THEY CHANGED IT, AND NOW WHEN THEY GO TO MINIMUM
FLOWS, THEY LOWER THE WATER LEVEL DOWN TO ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE
FEET.
THERE IS AN EXTREMELY CLEAR RELATIONSHIP THAT WHEN YOU LOWER
THE WATER LEVELS, THE SPRING GETS SALTIER.
NOW FROM 2002 TO 2012, WE PROVIDED ABOUT 10 OR 11 CFS, ABOUT
7 MGD TO THE BASE OF THE DAM WHILE HOLDING THE WATER LEVEL
STABLE IN SULPHUR SPRINGS AND THERE WAS NOT AN INCREASE IN
SALINITY.
THE MAIN FACTOR THAT HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE INCREASE IN
SALINITY IN SULPHUR SPRINGS IS LOWERING THE WATER LEVEL IN
THE SPRING.
SO, YEAH, IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, BUT -- HERE IS THE KEY
POINT -- SULPHUR SPRINGS DOES NOT NEED TO BE ELIMINATED FROM
THE MINIMUM FLOW SCENARIO.

NEEDS TO BE REDUCED.
WE NEED TO BRING THE WATER LEVELS UP TO 7 FEET AND WE CAN
PROBABLY GET 7 MGD STILL OUT OF SULPHUR SPRINGS.
2:57:57PM >>BILL CARLSON:
OH, REALLY.
SO WE CAN STILL KEEP 7.
2:58:00PM >> YEAH, WE DID THAT SUCCESSFULLY FOR TEN YEARS.
2:58:03PM >>BILL CARLSON:
OKAY.
THE TAMPA BAY WATER AND MEMBER -- A MEMBER GOVERNMENT WENT
THROUGH THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THE QUALITY OF WATER AND
ASKING FOR THE WATER QUALITY STANDARDS TO BE CHANGED.
CITY OF TAMPA HAS PRESENTED THAT AS A JUSTIFICATION THAT THE
WATER QUALITY IN TAMPA IS BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE WATER THAT
THE TAMPA BAY WATER MEMBER GOVERNMENTS DRINK.
HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT ANY OF THE STUDIES?
AND DO YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT?
2:58:32PM >> I HAVE NOT.
MAYBE SOME OF OUR OTHER STAKEHOLDER MEMBERS HAVE.
THAT HASN'T BEEN MY FOCUS.
2:58:38PM >>BILL CARLSON:
ALSO, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE REASON
SOME OF THE OTHER GOVERNMENTS IN OUR REGION DON'T HAVE --
AREN'T FACING THE SAME EXPENSIVE DILEMMA IS BECAUSE THEY ARE
ALREADY REDIRECTING THEIR RECLAIMED WATER TO WHAT I CALL
PURPLE PIPES, TO WATER YOUR LAWN.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD RATHER WATER THEIR LAWN WITH POOPY
WATER THAN PUT IT IN THE DRINKING WATER.

BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW OF THE REGION, TAMPA DID AN
EXPERIMENT 15 OR 20 YEARS AGO THAT WAS BADLY MARKETED.
IT WAS NOT WIDELY USED BECAUSE OF THE BAD MARKETING AND BAD
STRATEGY.
BUT IN YOUR OPINION SHOULD WE LOOK AT PURPLE PIPES SERIOUSLY
OR SHOULD WE WRITE THAT OFF AND MOVE TO THE NEXT STAGE?
2:59:20PM >> I CAN'T SPEAK.
THE CITY DOES HAVE A PURPLE PIPES PROGRAM.
THAT'S ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES, AND VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS
HAVE LOBBIED THEM ON THAT, BUT THEY SAY THEY WILL LOOK AT
IT, BUT THERE ARE INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS INVOLVED, WHAT NEW
NEIGHBORHOODS THEY WOULD GET TO.
THAT WOULD BE ON THE TABLE BUT I CAN'T SPEAK --
2:59:35PM >>BILL CARLSON:
INITIAL MODELING WAS CITYWIDE AND DIDN'T
INCLUDE AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD REQUIRE PEOPLE TO WATER
THEIR LAWNS WITH IT.
2:59:41PM >> THAT IS OUT OF MY AREA.
2:59:43PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE RIVER WATER QUALITY THE HEAD OF
SUSTAINABILITY OF THE CITY TESTIFIED A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT
THE WATER QUALITY IN THE RIVER IS WORSE THAN THE WATER BEING
PUSHED OUT AT SEDDON COVE, IS IT -- WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF
THE QUALITY OF THE WATER OF THE RIVER AND WHAT SHOULD WE DO
ABOUT IT?
3:00:06PM >> YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE SELECTIVE.
AS YOU KNOW, RIVER WATER -- LOOKS LIKE ICED TEA.

IT'S GOT MORE DISSOLVED ORGANIC COLOR THAN THE WATER
DISCHARGED OUT OF SEDDON CHANNEL.
IT DEPENDS ON THE PARAMETER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
CERTAINLY THE RIVER WATER DOES NOT HAVE MORE PHARMACEUTICALS
IN IT THAN THE WASTEWATER.
WHEN YOU HEAR THOSE CONVERSATIONS, YOU HAVE TO WONDER, WHICH
PARAMETER ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT?
AGAIN, THE RIVER WATER HAS MORE DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER.
3:00:33PM >>BILL CARLSON:
SOME TALK ABOUT HOW PASCO PUTS THEIR TREATED
WATER INTO THE AQUIFER, RIVER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, DO WE
HAVE ANY REMNANTS OF THAT THAT'S COMING THROUGH OUR RIVER?
3:00:42PM >> YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK -- I TRIED TO LOOK THAT UP.
IT'S A FAIRLY SMALL QUANTITY AND I'M SPEAKING OFF THE CUFF.
I DON'T KNOW.
IT'S BASED ON DIFFERENT FILTRATION SYSTEM.
I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW.
3:00:52PM >>BILL CARLSON:
LAST QUESTION, TO MEET MINIMUM FLOWS, WE
COULD JUST REDUCE OUR PUMPING OUT OF THE RIVER, RIGHT?
OR REDUCE OUR PUMPING OUT OF SULPHUR SPRINGS.
SO IF WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT COULD WE NOT TO MEET THE STATE
GUIDELINE, COULD WE NOT SELL THIS WATER TO SOMEBODY ELSE
LIKE TAMPA BAY WATER OR POLK COUNTY OR SOMEONE ELSE?
3:01:13PM >> I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THE NEED FOR MINIMUM -- THE DEMANDS ON THE

RESERVOIR.
I DON'T THINK CUTTING BACK ON DEMANDS FROM THE RESERVOIR IS
GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO MEET MINIMUM FLOWS.
BUT LET ME RESTATE THAT ANOTHER WAY.
IF WE DO SAY THAT MINIMUM FLOWS HAVE TO BE SUCH AND SUCH,
YOU CAN RUN MODELING SCENARIOS.
WE NEED THIS MUCH MINIMUM FLOW, YOU RUN A RESERVOIR MODEL.
I WAS INVOLVED IN THAT 30 YEARS AGO.
YOU SAY, GEE, EXACTLY HOW MUCH EFFECT WOULD THIS HAVE ON
RELIABLE YIELD OF THE RESERVOIR?
SO THAT CAN BE LOOKED AT.
3:01:44PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WHAT I MEANT IS IF WE, FOR EXAMPLE, AT
SULPHUR SPRINGS YOU SAID WE CAN GO DOWN FROM 12 TO 7.
LET'S SAY WE REDUCE THAT PUMPING BY 5, AND WE DON'T HAVE THE
FLOW ON THE RIVER TO BE ABLE TO PUMP THAT, WE COULD BUY THAT
EXTRA 5 FROM TAMPA BAY WATER, RIGHT?
SO THAT, BY REDUCING PUMPING, IT WOULD HELP US TO --
3:02:05PM >> I'M NOT GOING THERE ON THAT.
I DON'T KNOW.
THE ONE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT, I WANT YOU ALL TO REALIZE,
THOUGH, THE MINIMUM FLOW WATER THAT'S PROVIDED FROM THE
RESERVOIR TO THE LOWER RIVER ACTUALLY ORIGINATES FROM THE
LOWER POOL OF THE TAMPA BYPASS CANAL WHICH IS NEVER USED FOR
WATER SUPPLY UNTIL THE YEAR 2002.
THEY PUMP WATER FROM THE LOWER POOL TO THE MIDDLE POOL, FROM

THE MIDDLE POOL TO THE RESERVOIR AND RELEASE 75% OF THAT.
THAT 75%.
SO THE WATER IS ACTUALLY COMING FROM THE TAMPA BYPASS CANAL,
AND THERE'S AMAZING CAPACITY IN THE TAMPA BYPASS CANAL, RAW
WATER, TO HELP PROVIDE THE MINIMUM FLOW.
IT'S REALLY SORT OF BEEN UNDERUTILIZED, RAW WATER.
3:02:44PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
3:02:48PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
JUST A COUPLE.
WHO INTRODUCED SENATE BILL 64?
3:02:54PM >> I THINK THESE WERE LEADERS.
IN THE SENATE, SENATOR BEN ALBRITTON FROM THE PEACE RIVER
VALLEY, AND THEN IN OUR AREA, SENATOR RANDY MAGGARD WAS VERY
INVOLVED.
HE'S LIKE FROM THE ZEPHYRHILLS.
RANDY MAGGARD IN THE HOUSE, BEN ALBRITTON IN THE SENATE I
THINK WERE VERY INVOLVED IN IT.
3:03:15PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WAS THERE AN ACCOMPANYING BILL WITH THAT?
3:03:18PM >> NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
3:03:19PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN CARLSON ASKED THIS
QUESTION, BUT ARE THERE OTHER CITIES THAT USE RIVER WATER?
3:03:25PM >> YES.
3:03:26PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
3:03:27PM >> IN OUR REGION OF THE STATE, MANATEE COUNTY USES RIVER
WATER.

THE CITY OF BRADENTON USES RIVER WATER.
THE PEACE RIVER MANASOTA USES RIVER WATER.
THAT'S CORRECT.
3:03:37PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HAVE ANY OF THOSE CITIES EVER GONE OR ASKED
FOR THE FLEXIBILITY IN SENATE BILL 64?
3:03:43PM >> I HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO THAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEIR DISCHARGES ARE.
I DON'T KNOW.
3:03:49PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HAVE ANY OF THEM GONE TO AMEND THE FLORIDA
CODE?
3:03:53PM >> I DO NOT KNOW.
I DON'T THINK SO.
3:03:56PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
HAVE ANY OF THEM INTERACTED WITH F DEP?
3:04:00PM >> I DON'T KNOW.
3:04:01PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THERE'S STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.
IF TAMPA JOINED FORCES WITH ALL THESE OTHER CITIES THAT
COLLECT THEIR WATER FROM RIVERS, I THINK WE'D HAVE A DAMN
GOOD FIGHT IN OVERCOMING ALL THIS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
ANYONE WANT TO SPEAK?
3:04:18PM >> THANK YOU.
3:04:30PM >> I'M NANCY STEVENS.
I'M THE CONSERVATION CHAIR, TAMPA BAY SIERRA CLUB.
SID AND THE OTHER FINE FOLKS HERE, WE'VE BEEN WORKING OVER
TWO YEARS ON THE PURE PROJECT MEETING WITH THE CITY.

BEFORE THAT, WE WORKED ON TAP.
I'M AN ENGINEER BY TRAINING AND HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHY THE CITY IS DOING THIS.
WHY WOULD THE CITY GO TO THE EXPENSE OF REUSING WASTEWATER
AND INTRODUCING UNKNOWN RISKS TO THE HEALTH OF THE CITIZENS
AND THE ENVIRONMENT?
SO PREPARING FOR THIS I WENT THROUGH THE 17 QUESTIONS.
IF YOU CAN SHOW THE SLIDE.
AND THIS SLIDE SHOWS A TIMELINE.
I STARTED -- I FEEL LIKE I'M KIND OF SLOW, BUT STARTED TO
GET A CLUE.
THE KEY IS THAT THIS IS A TIMELINE OF TAMPA BAY WATER REUSE
TO DATE.
SO WHEN THE CITY WAS ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS, THEY WEREN'T
TALKING ABOUT TAMPA BAY'S WATER, THEY WERE CONSIDERING TAMPA
BAY WATER REUSE.
APPARENTLY REUSE PROJECTS STARTED WAY BACK IN 1984.
THEY HAVE THIS SORT OF WHAT'S NEXT?
IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT IS THE NEXT WATER REUSE PROJECT,
SUGGESTING THAT WATER REUSE IS THE GOAL, MUST BE ANOTHER
WATER REUSE PROJECT COMING.
TO THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA, WATER REUSE IS NOT THE GOAL.
THE GOAL IS TO HAVE SAFE RELIABLE DRINKING WATER IN TAMPA
FOR GENERATIONS TO COME WHILE PROTECTION THE ENVIRONMENT.
OUR GROUP HAS BEEN WORKING OVER TWO YEARS TRYING TO

COMMUNICATE THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WATER, AND OUR
CONCERNS WITH WATER REUSE AND THE EFFECTS ON THE COMMUNITY.
YOU AND CITY COUNCIL, YOU'VE HEARD THIS THAT'S WHY YOU ASKED
FOR THIS WORKSHOP, WHICH IS TO TALK ABOUT USING THE CURRENT
WATER SUPPLIES AND THE WEST AND WORST-CASE SCENARIOS OF THAT
AND TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ELSE WE SHOULD BE DOING, NOT FOCUSING
ON WATER REUSE.
FOCUSING ON WATER NEEDS.
THAT'S WHY OUR GROUP WROTE DOWN THE 17 QUESTIONS.
WE AS CITIZEN STAKEHOLDERS HAVE AND HAVE HEARD FROM OTHER
CITIZENS, AND AGAIN TO CITIZENS WATER REUSE IS NOT A GOAL.
SO THE NEXT STEPS THAT I PROPOSED IS THAT IT SHOULD INCLUDE
THE BASICS TO PICK THE BEST WATER SOLUTION FOR TAMPA.
NOT WATER REUSE.
HOW FAR THE CURRENT WATER SOURCES IN TAMPA WILL TAKE US.
HOW FAR REDUCING DEMAND FOR DRINKING WATER SUCH AS THROUGH
CONSERVATION OR INCREASED RECLAIMED WATER USE LIKE YOU WERE
JUST MENTIONING WILL TAKE US.
AND THEN HOW MUCH ADDITIONAL WATER, IF NECESSARY, IS NEEDED
AND WHEN.
AND THEN YOU DO THE SOLUTIONS, HAVE A VARIETY OF SOLUTIONS,
NOT ALL OF THEM INVOLVING WATER REUSE.
AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PUBLIC.
PART OF PURE, CITY DEVELOPED SOME GOALS OTHER THAN JUST
DEVELOPING A REUSE PROJECT WHICH HAD FOR TAP.

SINCE I ALREADY TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THE MINIMUM FLOWS AND
SOME OF THE THINGS ABOUT SB 64 AND I'LL FOCUS MORE ON
DROUGHT-PROOFING THE RESERVOIR AND MORE BROADLY MEETING
TAMPA'S WATER NEEDS.
THEN I'LL SUGGEST A PATH TO GETTING AWAY FROM FOCUSING ON
BUILDING A WATER REUSE PROJECT, GETTING AWAY FROM TAP AND
PURE, AND STARTING TO FOCUS ON THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA AND OUR
WATER NEEDS.
WHEN ANSWERING THE 17 QUESTIONS, THE CONSULTANTS REVIEWED
THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF TAP DOCUMENTS THAT THEY HAD PRODUCED
IN THE PAST EIGHT YEARS.
THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO FIND COMPLETE ANSWERS BECAUSE TAP
DIDN'T ASK THOSE QUESTIONS THAT WE ASKED.
TAP WAS FOCUSED ON REUSING WASTEWATER, AND AS I WENT THROUGH
THE DOCUMENTS, I FOUND THESE QUOTES.
THESE FOLKS, THEY ARE QUOTED FROM THE DOCUMENT.
THEY STARTED WITH REUSING 20 MILLION GALLONS A DAY OF
RECLAIMED WATER.
THAT WAS THEIR GOAL.
THEY LOOKED AT A COUPLE OF ALTERNATIVES.
WHEN THEY DECIDED, SETTLED ON ALTERNATIVE 2, TAP, THEN THEY
FOCUSED ON FIGURING OUT HOW TO USE ALL 50 MILLION GALLONS A
DAY THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE FROM TAP.
THE GOAL WASN'T TO USE CURRENT SOURCES OF WATER.
IN FACT, IT WAS STATED THAT TAP WAS INTENDED TO OFFSET THE

NEED TO PURCHASE WATER FROM TAMPA BAY WATER.
SO WHEN WE ASKED WHAT IS DROUGHT-PROOFING THE RESERVOIR,
THAT WAS OUR QUESTION 12 ON THE LIST, WHAT DOES
DROUGHT-PROOFING THE RESERVOIR MEAN IN MEASURABLE TEAMS, HOW
DOES THE CITY PROPOSE TO USE TREATED WASTEWATER FOR
DROUGHT-PROOFING THE RESERVOIR, IT WAS MEANT TO GET AT HOW
MUCH WATER IS NEEDED AND WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS.
FOR EXAMPLE, I CONTINUOUSLY GET QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE CAN'T
USE THE RECLAIMED WATER FOR WATERING LAWNS AND KEEP IT OUT
OF OUR DRINKING WATER.
THE RESPONSE, THE REPORT, THE ANSWER TO THE 17 QUESTIONS,
ANSWER TO QUESTION 12 WAS A NUMBER FROM THE TAP STUDY.
34.4 MILLION GALLONS A DAY, WHICH IS NOT VALID FOR MANY
REASONS.
BASICALLY, THE MODELS JUST NEED TO BE RERUN WITH DIFFERENT
ASSUMPTIONS, UPDATING ASSUMPTIONS INCLUDING USING TAMPA BAY
WATER SOURCES AS PART OF THE SOLUTION.
CONSERVATION TO REDUCE THE DEMAND AND STARTING WITH WATER
NEEDS, NOT HOW TO USE 50 MILLION GALLONS A DAY.
AND NOTE THAT THIS WAS A 50 MILLION GALLON A DAY GOAL IN
2016-17, WELL BEFORE SB 64.
THE GOALS DON'T ALIGN BUT GOALS OF TAP IS THE BASIS FOR
PURE.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A RESTART SO WE CAN DEVELOP A COMMON GOAL.
TO ILLUSTRATE THE EXTENT OF THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN TAP GOALS

AND CITIZEN GOALS, I WANT TO BRING YOUR ATTENTION TO A STUDY
THE CITY STAFF ASKED TAMPA BAY WATER TO DO.
DESPITE CITIZENS' OBJECTION TO TAP AND PURE IN 2021, THE
CITY CONTINUED TO PURSUE PURE -- 3, THE ONE SIMILAR TO
TAMPA.
IN THE STUDY THEY ASKED FOR WAS, IF TAMPA PRODUCES 50
MILLION GALLONS A DAY -- THE ANSWER WAS YES.
TAMPA BAY WATER COULD USE EXTRA WATER.
IT'S QUITE A VERY DETAILED REPORT.
A LOT OF DETAILS IN IT.
BASICALLY, THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.
BUT THIS STUDY WAS NOT SENDING THE WASTEWATER TO TAMPA BAY
WATER.
NO.
IN THIS STUDY, TAMPA'S CITIZENS WOULD PAY THREE, FOUR, FIVE
MILLION, WHATEVER TO REUSE THE 50 MILLION GALLONS A DAY OF
WASTEWATER.
TAMPA CITIZENS WOULD DRINK THE RECLAIMED WASTEWATER WHILE
THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER WATER WOULD GO TO TAMPA BAY WATER.
I HOPE THIS PLAN WAS NEVER SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED.
BUT AS I SAID, THERE ARE A LOT OF RESOURCES PUT INTO THAT
MODELING.
IT WAS A VERY DETAILED MODEL.
I WOULD HOPE THE CITY WOULD WORK WITH TAMPA BAY WATER TO DO
THAT KIND OF LEVEL OF DETAILED EXCELLENT MODELING USING OUR

CURRENT WATER SOURCES AND UNDERSTAND WHAT TAMPA CAN
CURRENTLY DO WITH OUR CURRENT WATER SOURCES.
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY DISCONNECTS WITH THE PUBLIC ON TAP AND
PURE.
A MAJOR ONE BEING LACK OF TRANSPARENCY.
THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY SPENT ON TAP AND I BROUGHT THIS HERE
JUST TO SHOW YOU, A LOT OF CONSULTANT WORK, A LOT OF
DOCUMENTS WERE PRODUCED.
THIS IS NOT ALL OF THEM.
I DIDN'T PRINT THEM ALL OUT.
ANSWER THE 17 QUESTIONS THEY REFER TO MANY TAP DOCUMENTS.
THESE ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE TO CITIZENS ON THE WEBSITE.
THEY NEED TO BE AVAILABLE TO CITIZENS ON THE WEBSITE.
THERE'S -- THE STUDIES THAT WERE REFERENCED HERE, THE STUDY
ON CONTAMINANTS THAT HAS NEVER BEEN AVAILABLE TO CITIZENS ON
THE WEBSITE FROM DECEMBER OF -- OCTOBER OF 2020.
I MAY HAVE THE NAMES OF MANY OF THEM.
THEY WERE ON THE WEBSITE AND I GOT A LOT OF THEM BEFORE THEY
CAME OFF THE WEBSITE.
SO THAT'S MY REQUEST HERE.
TRANSPARENCY AND ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS FOR THE CITIZENRY
SO PEOPLE ARE MORE AWARE AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING
ON.
FINALLY, A PROPOSAL.
I THINK WE NEED A RESTART.

WE NEED TO START AT THE BEGINNING AND WE NEED FULL
TRANSPARENCY.
THIS PICTURE HERE COMES FROM TAMPA BAY WATER.
THIS IS THEIR PLANNING PROCESS FOR PLANNING FOR FUTURE WATER
PROJECTS.
AND THEY START BY LOOKING AT WHEN TO BUILD AND HOW DO THEY
-- WHEN THEY LOOK AT DEMANDS, THEY LOOK AT HOW THEY COULD
MITIGATE DEMANDS BY CONSERVATION.
THEY LOOK IF THEY CAN STORE WATER, OTHER THINGS TO FIGURE
OUT HOW MUCH WATER THEY NEED.
AND THEN THEY FIGURE OUT WHAT TO BUILD.
THEY HAVE A WIDE VARIETY OF PROJECTS PROPOSED.
THEY START OUT WITH HUNDREDS, AND THEY NARROW IT DOWN.
PIPING WATER FROM ICEBERGS I THINK WAS ONE OF THE EXAMPLES
THEY SAID.
BUT THEY NARROW IT DOWN AND NARROW IT DOWN, AND THEN THEY
WIND UP WITH MAYBE FIVE PROJECTS AT THE END THAT THEY START
TO SERIOUSLY LOOK AT.
AND THEY HAVE PUBLIC INPUT ALONG THE WAY.
SO I SUGGEST THAT TAMPA NEEDS THIS PROCESS.
WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT TAMPA'S WATER NEEDS.
WE DON'T NEED TO BE STARTING AT ASSUMING WE NEED TO DO A
WATER REUSE PROJECT WHEN WE DON'T NEED ONE.
THOSE ARE ALL MY COMMENTS.
3:14:05PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.

3:14:06PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT
PRESENTATION AND FOR SOME CLARITY, BECAUSE IT ANSWERED SOME
OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD.
THE THING IS MANY THINGS, FIRST, NOBODY WANTS THIS.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A HIGHLY TREATED WASTEWATER PUT INTO OUR
DRINKING SUPPLY, I MEAN, I'VE SEEN YOU OUT IN THE PUBLIC
THESE LAST FEW WEEKS.
HAVE YOU HEARD ANYBODY SAY WE NEED TO DO THIS, NUMBER ONE?
NUMBER TWO, YOU HAD A LINE THERE THAT SAID AND TAMPA
TAXPAYERS, OR WHATEVER THE LINE WAS, WILL BE PAYING FOR THIS
IN FULL.
WHATEVER THE PRICE TAG IS, IT COULD SEE BE 300 MILLION, IT
COULD BE 3 BILLION, IT COULD BE SIX, WHATEVER IT IS.
THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.
MY QUESTION IS, IS THIS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY?
WHEN WE'RE INVESTING OR ASKING THE PUBLIC, THE TAXPAYERS TO
SPEND THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY, WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY PRESSING
NEEDS.
WE TALK ABOUT HOUSING.
WE TALK ABOUT TRANSPORTATION.
WE TALK ABOUT PAVING LOADS.
THERE'S NEVER ENOUGH MONEY FOR ALL THAT STUFF THAT THE
PEOPLE HAVE COME HERE FOR, BUT WITH THIS, OUR HANDS ARE
TIED, WE HAVE TO DO THIS, YET NOBODY WANTS IT.
NOBODY IN THE PUBLIC -- I HAVEN'T MET ANYBODY YET PUBLICLY

THAT HAS SAID YOU'RE MAKING A MISTAKE WITH THIS AND YOU'RE
NOT THINKING ABOUT THIS PROPERLY AND THERE'S A LOT OF
MISINFORMATION.
WE NEED THIS.
AND I'VE TALKED TO EXPERTS, NOT JUST THE PROFESSIONALS THAT
HAVE COME HERE, BUT PEOPLE OUTSIDE.
NOBODY HAS SAID TO ME, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER
THIS.
TRUST ME, I KNOW THIS.
MY BACKGROUND IS WHATEVER IN REGARDS TO THIS.
THIS IS VERY INTERESTING.
WE APPROVED PIPES WHICH IS IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
NECESSARY AND PEOPLE SAID OKAY.
IT'S GOING TO GO TO SOMETHING TANGIBLE THAT IS NEEDED.
WE APPROVED STORMWATER PROJECTS BACK IN 2016.
HEY, LET'S FIX THE FLOODING IN OUR STATE.
I HAD PEOPLE, AND THAT WAS EXPENSIVE.
THE $251 MILLION, I REMEMBER ONE PROPERTY OWNER, GUY OWNS A
LOT OF REAL ESTATE, PLEASE DO SOMETHING.
I GO, WE'RE GOING TO BE RAISING YOUR TAXES IN THE FORM OF
FEES, USER FEES.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING MORE MONEY, PLEASE DO SOMETHING.
THIS IS NOT MANAGEABLE.
EVEN IN THOSE SCENARIOS, THERE WAS THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE
AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES.

WITH THIS, AGAIN, I HAVEN'T MET ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WITH
THE PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND THAT UNDERSTANDS HOW TO REUSE
THIS WATER OR ANYBODY IN GENERAL THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT,
THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR OUR CITY, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE
TOUGH DECISIONS.
NOBODY HAS.
THERE'S A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
THERE'S A LOT OF SUSPICION BECAUSE WHAT'S BEHIND ON THIS?
BEHIND ALL OF THIS?
WHY IS THIS SO NECESSARY THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS NOW?
DO WE HAVE A SITUATION NOW?
WE WANT TO DROUGHT-PROOF FOR -- BUT DO WE ABSOLUTELY NEED
THIS?
WE TALK ABOUT MINIMUM FLOWS.
WE TALK ABOUT THE DAM.
SO MANY THINGS, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS SUCH AN EXPENSIVE PROJECT
WITH SO MUCH DOUBT, AND THAT'S WHAT I STRUGGLE.
AND DOUBT FROM THE PROFESSIONALS.
NOT DOUBT, DOESN'T SOUND GOOD.
FROM THE PROFESSIONALS.
THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND FOR ANSWERING A LOT OF MY
QUESTIONS HERE.
3:17:14PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN GUDES.
3:17:15PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MR. SHELBY, I'VE HEARD ENOUGH OF THIS
TOILET TO TAP PURE PROJECT.

I ASKED YOU I THINK A WEEK AGO ABOUT THE PROJECT.
I ASKED YOU HOW DOES THIS COUNCIL PUT AN END TO THIS AND BE
DONE WITH THIS AND MOVE ON?
CAN YOU ANSWER THAT FOR ME, SIR?
3:17:31PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I'M NOT PREPARED TO GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC
ANSWER, BUT THERE MUST BE AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION THAT
WOULD GIVE US SOME SORT OF FINALITY.
IF YOU'D LIKE, I'D COME BACK AT NEXT WEEK'S MEETING.
3:17:42PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
MAKE A MOTION THAT YOU COME BACK WITH SOME
TYPE OF MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING OF HOW WE CAN END THIS
AND WE CAN MOVE ON.
I THINK THE PUBLIC DOES NOT WANT THIS.
THE PUBLIC DOES NOT WANT THIS.
IT IS CLEAR THEY DO NOT WANT THIS.
WE NEED TO HAVE YOU AS OUR LEGAL PERSON TELL US WHAT WE CAN
DO AS A COUNCIL TO YOU END THIS AND MOVE ON.
3:18:07PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I HEARD A SECOND.
IS THAT A MOTION?
FOR NEXT WEEK.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE ONE-WEEK MOTION, BUT THERE IS A REGULAR
MEETING NEXT WEEK AND THIS IS A MATTER OF INTEREST TO THE
COUNCIL AND THERE WAS A SECOND, MR. CHAIRMAN.
3:18:22PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
THERE WAS A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
SECOND BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?

COUNCILMAN VIERA.
3:18:31PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I'M GLAD TO SUPPORT THIS.
IT'S FUNNY.
MY UNDERSTANDING WHEN WE DEALT WITH THE ISSUE MAYBE THREE
MONTHS AGO THAT THAT DID OCCUR.
IF THERE IS SOME LINGERING RESIDUAL EFFECTS OF IT, YEAH,
SURE, THAT'S FINE.
I'M GLAD TO SUPPORT THIS.
THERE YOU GO.
3:18:49PM >> I'LL GO BACK TO MY FIRST SLIDE.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS WHERE THE CITY IS LOOKING AT THE
PICTURE.
THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
SOMETHING TO DO WITH RECLAIMED WATER.
LOOKING AT THAT SLIDE, IT'S ALL RECLAIMED WATER AND THEY
WANT TO DO MORE RECLAIMED WATER.
MY CONTENTION IS, WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT TAMPA'S WATER
NEEDS, NOT HOW TO USE RECLAIMED WATER.
THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A GIVEN THAT WE HAVE TO USE RECLAIMED
WATER.
I'M NOT SAYING IT ISN'T, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.
THAT SHOULDN'T BE WHERE YOU START.
SHOULD START WITH WHAT YOU NEED.
3:19:24PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.

3:19:24PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, I BELIEVE, AND FORGIVE ME FOR
NOT BEING AS WELL VERSED TO THE CITY COUNCIL, THAT HAVE BEEN
BRIEFED BY MANY PARTIES OVER THE SUBJECT MATTER, SO FORGIVE
ME.
I NEED TO GET UP TO SPEED.
BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE CAME A POINT IN TIME WHEN I
GUESS AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONTRACT WITH PCL CAME UP TO CITY
COUNCIL AND COUNCIL ASKED THAT THAT MONEY BE DIVERTED.
I BELIEVE THIS WAS COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK'S MOTION.
SO THERE IS AN EXISTING CONTRACT OUT THERE, EXISTING
CONTRACTOR THAT HAS BEEN AWARDED.
WHAT ROLE THAT PLAYS WILL SOMEHOW FACTOR INTO THIS I'M SURE.
BUT I GUESS BY EVEN HAVING THIS MOTION TODAY, IT SORT OF
PERPETUATED THE PROCESS GOING FORTH AND FROM WHAT I
UNDERSTAND AND I'M AWARE OF IS THAT THE MAYOR SUBSEQUENT TO
THAT DISCUSSION HAD PUT FORTH A VIDEO MADE AVAILABLE TO THE
PUBLIC DISCUSSING THIS VERY PROJECT AND PERPETUATING IT.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A DISCONNECT BETWEEN PERHAPS THE
ADMINISTRATION'S POSITION AND THE COUNCIL'S POSITION THAT
NEEDS TO BE RECTIFIED SOMEHOW TO BE ABLE TO BRING THIS
MATTER TO A CLOSE.
THAT'S THE DIRECTION I'M HEARING FROM COUNCIL ON THE BASIS
OF THE MOTION, AM I CORRECT?
THANK YOU.
3:20:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS IN ANY FURTHER COMMENTS?
3:21:04PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
ROLL CALL VOTE ON THIS, MR. CHAIRMAN?
3:21:06PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ROLL CALL VOTE.
3:21:12PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
YES.
3:21:14PM >> MIRANDA?
HURTAK?
3:21:16PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
3:21:16PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YES.
3:21:17PM >>ORLANDO GUDES:
YES.
3:21:18PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES.
3:21:20PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
YES.
3:21:21PM >>THE CLERK:
MOTION PASSED WITH MIRANDA BEING ABSENT.
3:21:26PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:21:27PM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON WHAT'S BEEN
PRESENTED AND RESPOND TO MS. STEVENS.
NUMBER ONE, IF YOU LOOK AT ITEM NUMBER 11, I DON'T SEE THAT
IT SAYS PURE ON HERE AND IT DOESN'T SAY WATER REUSE OR
WHATEVER THE LANGUAGE WAS THAT WE USED TO REPLACE PURE.
CITY COUNCIL TWICE, TWO OR THREE TIMES HAS VOTED I THINK
UNANIMOUSLY TO REQUIRE THE STAFF TO PUT THOSE KEYWORDS IN AN
AGENDA ITEM SO THE PUBLIC CAN IDENTIFY IT AND IT'S NOT
THERE.
THAT'S NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, THE STAFF ASSURED US -- WE'VE KILLED THIS
PROJECT THREE TIMES, JUST THIS COUNCIL.

THE PRIOR COUNCIL I THINK KILLED IT TWO OR THREE TIMES ALSO.
WE'VE KILLED THIS THREE TIMES.
THE LAST TIME THEY SAID THAT PURE WAS DEAD.
THE STAFF CAME OUT AND SAID PURE IS DEAD.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BRING UP PURE.
PURE IS NOT HAPPENING.
AS MARTY SAID, THE MAYOR SUDDENLY OUT OF THE BLUE POSTED A
VIDEO ABOUT PURE, SENT A THREE-PAGE MEMO TO ALL THE CITY
COUNCIL CANDIDATES, AND SENT OUT A PRESS RELEASE ABOUT PURE.
IT'S VERY CONFUSING BECAUSE THE STAFF WHO REPORT TO THE
MAYOR SAY THE PROJECT IS DEAD BUT THE MAYOR HERSELF SAYS IT
IS NOT.
SO THERE'S CONFUSION THERE.
THERE'S A LOT OF ANGST IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THAT.
A LOT OF CONFUSION.
NUMBER 3, COUNCIL MEMBER MANISCALCO MENTIONED HOW THE MONEY
COULD BE USED ON SOMETHING ELSE.
BEFORE A STAFF MEMBER COMES IN AND SAY, IT'S ENTERPRISE
MONEY, CAN'T USE -- THE PUBLIC DOESN'T WANT TO PAY MORE FEES
OR TAXES.
IF THEY HAVE TO PAY SOMETHING AND THEY CHOOSE BETWEEN
INCREASED WATER RATE TO PAY FOR DRINKING POTTY WATER OR
INCREASE IN SOMETHING ELSE TO PAY FOR POLICE AND FIRE, THEY
WOULD RATHER PAY FOR THE SOMETHING ELSE.
THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THIS.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCES.
LIMITED, BUT DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCES ACCESS TO.
I DON'T THINK MY COLLEAGUE WAS SAYING LITERALLY WE WOULD
TAKE OUT OF THIS ENTERPRISE FUND AND PAY FOR SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE PUBLIC CAN'T STAND
HAVING MORE AND MORE RATE INCREASES ALL THE TIME.
THE NEXT THING, THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL TECHNOLOGY.
I VOTED AGAINST IT, BUT IT IS AN EXPERIMENTAL TECHNOLOGY.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THE STAFF IS SO BOUND AND DETERMINED TO USE
EXPERIMENTAL TECHNOLOGY.
WE'RE BETA TESTING IT.
THAT'S GREAT.
MAYBE WE CAN USE IT TO CLEAN THE RIVER SO IT WILL FLOW
BETTER INTO THE BAY.
WITHOUT DESCRIBING ANY OF THE BENEFITS OF IT, UNTIL A LITTLE
BIT RECENTLY, THEY'VE BEEN BOUND AND DETERMINED TO PUSH THIS
NEW EXPERIMENTAL TECHNOLOGY FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
IT'S WRITTEN INTO THE CONTRACT.
AND WHEN PRESENTED WITH AN ALTERNATIVE THAT NINE OUT OF TEN
CITIES USE, THEY COME WITH EVERY EXCUSE WHY THEY DON'T WANT
TO LOOK AT IT, THAT JUST IS VERY DISTURBING TO A LOT OF
PEOPLE.
WE'VE ASKED THEM SEVERAL TIMES TO START OVER, WE KILLED IT
THE FIRST TIME FOUR YEARS AGO, THEY STARTED OVER WITH AN
ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS.

BUT THE ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS USED MODELING THAT WAS
COMPLETELY BIASED.
I MENTIONED THE PURPLE PIPES.
THEY LOOKED AT THE WHOLE CITY.
THEY DIDN'T PUT IN AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD REQUIRE TO USE
THAT TO WATER YOUR LAWNS.
SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH IT.
SO THE PRICES WERE SKEWED AND THE MAIN DETERMINATION THEY
USED IS PRICED TO REJECT IT.
THE WHOLE THING LOOKED BIAS.
WHATEVER WE DO, WE NEED TO START OVER.
WE NEED TO HAVE AN HONEST APPROACH.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT -- STAFF SAID TWO WEEKS AGO, WE DON'T
WANT TO TRY TO LOBBY THE STATE TO CHANGE THIS OR MODIFY IT
IN ANY WAY.
THAT'S NOT AN HONEST APPROACH.
ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES WOULD BE TO CHANGE THIS.
WHY PUT THE BURDEN IN HERE.
I PRESENTED EVERYBODY TO THE CITY, WHY WOULDN'T WE SELL THIS
TO SOMEBODY ELSE?
WE COULD MAKE A PROFIT THE NEXT 30 YEARS BECAUSE WE DON'T
NEED THIS WATER AND WHOEVER WE SELL IT TO, WE COULD SAY WE
HAVE THE FIRST RIGHT OF REFUSAL TO BUY TREATED WATER BACK.
50 MGD, WE COULD PROTECT THE CITY'S SUPPLY THE NEXT HUNDRED
YEARS BUT NOT PUT DEBT ON THE CITY, TAXPAYERS, NOT HAVE TO

INCREASE RATES, WHY WOULDN'T WE DO THAT?
BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN THE CITY JUST WANTS TO BUILD SOMETHING.
THEY JUST WANT TO BUILD IT, BOND IT OUT.
I DON'T KNOW WHY.
NOBODY KNOWS WHY, BUT THEY JUST WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING, AND
IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
FINANCIALLY, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL.
THANK YOU.
3:25:43PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.
3:25:44PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, COUNCILMAN CARLSON, FORGIVE
ME, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I'M NOT FAMILIAR
WITH.
I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS, I SUSPECT THE ADMINISTRATION OR
MAYBE YOU KNOW, PUT FORWARD YOU SAID A THREE-PAGE STATEMENT
REGARDING THIS?
3:26:05PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE MAYOR SENT A THREE-PAGE MEMO TO EVERY
CITY COUNCIL CANDIDATE TO TRY TO EDUCATE THEM ON WHY PURE IS
A GOOD IDEA.
3:26:12PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SOMETHING ELSE YOU SAID THAT WAS DONE.
3:26:15PM >>BILL CARLSON:
A VIDEO AND PRESS RELEASE.
3:26:18PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AND A PRESS RELEASE.
I HAVE NOT SEEN THE CANDIDATE COMMENTS, TO THE CANDIDATES, I
HAVE NOT SEEN THE PRESS RELEASE.
I WOULD NEED TO SEE THAT.
I HAVE NOT SCRUTINIZED THE PCL CONTRACT WITH REGARD TO HOW

THAT PLAYS INTO IT.
I WOULD NEED TO DO THAT AS WELL.
I'LL ASK FOR SUPPORT FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO BRING ME
UP TO SPEED ON THIS.
I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN THAT WHICH YOU HAVE SEEN
THAT I HAVEN'T HAD THE BENEFIT OF JUST TO GIVE ME GREATER
CONTEXT TO REALIZE WHAT THE ISSUES ARE.
I'M GOING TO WORK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION TO BE ABLE TO GET
THAT INFORMATION, UNLESS COUNCIL HAS IT AVAILABLE FOR ME.
I'LL GET IT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
3:26:58PM >> MY TURN?
GARY GIBBONS.
VICE-CHAIR OF THE TAMPA BAY SIERRA CLUB.
I'LL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
WE'VE DONE LOTS OF OUTREACH TO THE PUBLIC.
WE'VE MET WITH NEIGHBORHOODS.
WE'VE DONE PROGRAMS WITH SIERRA CLUB ABOUT THE PURE PROJECT.
WE HAVEN'T FOUND A SINGLE PERSON WHO'S IN FAVOR OF IT WHO IS
NOT RECEIVING A PAYCHECK FROM THE CITY OR HAS A CONTRACT
WITH THE CITY.
SO IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY.
IT'S WHAT I CALL THE WATER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THEM.

MY QUESTION, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CONTRACT, THAT'S WHAT I'M
HERE TO TALK ABOUT.
THIS RELATES TO CITY CONTRACT NUMBER 21-00044 WITH PCL
CONSTRUCTION INC. ENTITLED, PURIFY, USABLE RESOURCES FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT, PURE DESIGN-BUILD.
I'M GOING TO REFER TO THAT AS THE PURE DESIGN-BUILD CONTRACT
IN MY COMMENTS.
3:28:11PM >>BILL CARLSON:
COULD I ASK YOU TO JUST GIVE YOUR
PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE REAL FAST SO THE PUBLIC WILL KNOW
AND YOUR NAME?
3:28:18PM >> I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA BAR SINCE 1979.
I'M MOSTLY RETIRED EXCEPT FOR WORKING ON PURE THESE DAYS
BECAUSE I HAVE GRANDCHILDREN THAT LIVE HERE.
I DON'T WANT THEM DRINKING THIS WATER.
UNDER THE PURE DESIGN-BUILD CONTRACT, PCL CONSTRUCTION WAS
TASKED WITH PERFORMING VARIOUS SERVICES, INCLUDING, QUOTE,
PROJECT MANAGEMENT, ALTERNATIVE SELECTION, STAKEHOLDER
ENGAGEMENT, PUBLIC OUTREACH, REGULATORY COORDINATION, AND
ENHANCED SOURCE CONTROL PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION, CONCEPTUAL
DESIGN DEVELOPMENT, AND DELIVERY OF PRELIMINARY DESIGN
REPORT.
WITH REGARD TO THE ALTERNATIVE SELECTION, PCL WAS TO, QUOTE,
EVOLVE THE EVALUATION OF ALTERNATIVE COMBINATIONS WITH THE
GOAL TO THE CITY TO SELECT THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE TO
ADVANCE FUTURE PHASES OF THIS OVERALL PROJECT.

IS THE PROBLEM IS, THE ONLY ALTERNATIVES WHICH ARE LISTED IN
THE CONTRACT ARE, FIRST OF ALL, COMBINATION TWO, BENEFICIAL
DISCHARGE THAT WILL LOWER HILLSBOROUGH RIVER TO MEET MINIMUM
FLOWS FROM THE HOWARD F. CURREN ADVANCED WASTEWATER
TREATMENT PLANT.
NUMBER TWO, COMBINATION THREE, WHICH IS PUTTING IT IN THE
AQUIFER, AQUIFER RECHARGE AND RECOVERY AND DISCHARGE INTO
THE RESERVOIR ABOVE THE DAM.
AND THE THIRD ONE IS DIRECT POTABLE USE, REUSE.
SO MAKING US DRINK IT.
THAT'S THE ONLY ALTERNATIVES THAT THEY WANTED TO STUDY UNDER
THIS CONTRACT.
THAT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT WE SAID WHEN WE CAME TO CITY COUNCIL
AND COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.
UNDER RESOLUTION NUMBER 2022-126, COUNCIL APPROPRIATED
$1,134,393 ON FEBRUARY 3rd, 2022, FOR WORK TO BEGIN UNDER
THE CONTRACT.
THE WORK WAS REQUIRED TO BE COMPLETED WITHIN 240 DAYS, 8
MONTHS, AFTER ISSUANCE OF A NOTICE TO PROCEED.
SO HERE WE ARE MORE THAN A YEAR LATER, AND WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT'S HAPPENED UNDER THAT CONTRACT, WHICH RAISES A LOT OF
QUESTIONS.
SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS, WHAT DATE WAS THE NOTICE TO PROCEED
AND WAS THE WORK COMPLETED IN EIGHT MONTHS?
THE ADMINISTRATION KEEPS SAYING THERE IS NO PURE PROJECT.

SO MY SECOND QUESTION IS, WHAT'S THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE
PURE DESIGN-BUILD CONTRACT BETWEEN THE CITY AND PCL
CONSTRUCTION INC.?
IS IT STILL IN FORCE OR HAS IT BEEN COMPLETED OR HAS IT BEEN
SUSPENDED, CANCELED, OR ABANDONED?
BECAUSE UNDER THE CONTRACT, THE CITY HAS THE UNILATERAL
RIGHT TO SUSPEND, CANCEL, OR ABANDON THE PROJECT.
SO ANOTHER QUESTION, HAS THE CITY SUSPENDED, CANCELED, OR
ABANDONED THE PROJECT?
IF SO, WAS THAT CANCELLATION DONE IN WRITING AND WHEN?
WAS PCL CONSTRUCTION PAID FOR ITS SERVICES AND REIMBURSABLE
EXPENSES UP TO THE STATE OF SUSPENSION, CANCELLATION OR
ABANDONMENT?
OR HAS PCL BEEN TOLD TO STAND DOWN AND STAND BY?
IS HAS PURE DESIGN-BUILD CONTRACT BEEN AMENDED OR MODIFIED
SINCE FEBRUARY 3rd, 2022?
IF SO, HOW AND WHEN?
AND COULD WE GET A COPY OF THAT?
WHAT WORK HAS BEEN COMPLETED?
HOW MANY INVOICES HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED BY PCL AND HOW MUCH
MONEY HAS BEEN PAID OUT BY THE CITY UNDER THE PURE CONTRACT?
AND EXACTLY WHAT WORK HAS BEEN PERFORMED?
ARE THERE ANY DOCUMENTS OR RECORDS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY
PCL CONSTRUCTION UNDER THE CONTRACT WHICH PCL IS CLAIMING TO
BE EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER THE FLORIDA PUBLIC RECORDS

LAW?
WHEN WILL THE CITY PROVIDE COPIES OF ALL THE INVOICES AND
ALL WORK PRODUCT PRODUCED BY PCL CONSTRUCTION UNDER THIS
CONTRACT TO THE STAKEHOLDERS' GROUP, THE PUBLIC, AND TO CITY
COUNCIL?
AND WILL THEY DO IT WITHOUT SUBMISSION OF A FORMAL PUBLIC
RECORDS REQUEST?
IS THE PILOT PROJECT INVOLVING THE SUSPENDED ION EXCHANGE
BEING PERFORMED AND BUILT UNDER THIS CONTRACT OR ANOTHER
CONTRACT?
AND IF IT IS A SEPARATE CONTRACT, WHAT IS THE CONTRACT
NUMBER FOR THAT ONE?
AND CAN WE SEE WHAT HAS BEEN PAID OUT ON THAT?
I'M SURE THAT WE HAVE MANY MORE QUESTIONS THAT WILL BE
ANSWERED ONCE THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED, BUT THEN IT MAY
ALSO PRODUCE SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, LIKE WHEN THEY TRIED
TO ANSWER THE 17 QUESTIONS AND DID SO.
WE WEREN'T HAPPY WITH THEIR ANSWERS.
WE ALSO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SELECTION OF PCL AS
THE CONTRACTOR.
THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THUS FAR FROM THE SELECTION
COMMITTEE'S MEETINGS REVEAL THAT THERE WERE THREE FIRMS WHO
SUBMITTED BIDS AND AFTER SCORING THE BIDS THAT WERE
SUBMITTED, THE INITIAL RANKINGS WERE FIRST JACOBS
ENGINEERING GROUP, INC.

SECOND, KIEWIT WATER FACILITIES FLORIDA COMPANY AND THIRD
PCL CONSTRUCTION INC.
THE DOCUMENTS GO ON TO SAY THAT, QUOTE, ALL OF THE
SUBMISSIONS BY THESE THREE FIRMS WERE DEEMED WORTHY, FOUND
TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THE SOLICITATION, AND ALL THE FIRMS
WERE FOUND TO BE QUALIFIED FOR THE REFERENCED PROJECT'S
SCOPE OF WORK.
YET WHEN THE VOTING OF THE COMMITTEE OCCURRED, PCL
CONSTRUCTION WAS CHOSEN FIRST, FOLLOWED BY JACOBS
ENGINEERING GROUP, FOLLOWED BY KIEWIT WATER FACILITIES OF
FLORIDA.
WE WONDER WHY WAS PCL SELECTED WHEN THEY FINISHED LAST IN
THE INITIAL SCORING OF THE THREE FIRMS.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO RECEIVING ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS AS
WELL AS OTHERS THAT WE HAVE RAISED, AND I HAVE ADDITIONAL
COPIES OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I RAN THROUGH TODAY BECAUSE I
THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT THEM.
3:34:45PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MR. CHAIRMAN, I WAS ABOUT TO ASK THAT
QUESTION.
THANK YOU.
I HOPE YOU HAVE ENOUGH COPIES TO INCLUDE ME.
3:34:56PM >> I HAVE PLENTY.
I HAVE SOME FOR THE CITY BUT THEY ARE NOT HERE.
3:34:59PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU READY FOR QUESTIONS?
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.

3:35:02PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT'S NOT REALLY A QUESTION, MORE AS A MOTION
THAT I'M GOING TO ASK THE WATER DEPARTMENT TO GET US ANSWERS
TO THESE QUESTIONS BY MARCH 16, 2023.
SO THESE QUESTIONS BEING QUESTIONS STARTED ON PAGE 2 WHERE
IT SAYS, SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS, AND THEN FINISHING WITH
PAGE 3.
SO ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN BOTH WRITTEN FORM --
WRITTEN FORM TO BE PUT INTO SIRE BEFOREHAND.
MY MOTION IS TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS, MAKE SURE THEY ARE
PUT IN WRITTEN FORM AND ACCESSIBLE IN SIRE THE WEEK BEFORE.
3:35:50PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION?
3:35:54PM >> SECOND.
3:35:55PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THERE IS A FOURTH PAGE.
I APOLOGIZE.
3:35:57PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I HAVE THREE-PAGE 1s.
IF YOU COULD JUST TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU WERE HANDED, I
DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, BUT I HAVE
THREE OF THE SAME IDENTICAL PAGE ONES.
YOU HAVE THAT TOO?
WHAT SHOULD THEY HAVE, SIR?
3:36:22PM >> THERE ARE FOUR PAGES.
3:36:23PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NUMBERED ONE THROUGH FOUR.
3:36:26PM >> YES.
3:36:26PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DOES EVERYBODY HAVE PAGES 1, 2, 3, 4?
DO YOU HAVE PAGES 1, 2, 3, AND 4 FOR THE CLERK?

NAME AGAIN, SIR.
MR. GIBBONS.
DID YOU HAVE AN EXTRA COPY FOR THE CLERK?
THANK YOU.
3:36:46PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WHEN I COUNTED THESE QUESTIONS, I FOUND 11
QUESTIONS.
IS THAT RIGHT, MR. GIBBONS?
3:36:56PM >> I DIDN'T COUNT THEM.
3:36:58PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
BASICALLY, I SEE 10 QUESTIONS AND THEN ONE
QUESTION AT THE VERY END, WHY WERE THEY SELECTED WHEN THEY
FINISHED LAST?
I'LL SAY THESE 11 QUESTIONS, SINCE MOST OF THESE AREN'T
GOING TO REQUIRE RESEARCH, I THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO EXPECT
ANSWERS ON MARCH 16th, 2023, AGAIN, WRITTEN ANSWERS IN
SIRE BEFOREHAND AND THEN EXPLANATIONS.
SO THAT IS MY MOTION.
3:37:29PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MR. SHELBY.
3:37:30PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
COUNCIL, THIS DISCUSSION MAY BE VERY
RELEVANT FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO FORMULATE A RESPONSE FOR CITY
COUNCIL.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO WORK WITH THIS AS WELL.
AND IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO INVOLVE SEEING THIS INFORMATION
TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHERE IT FITS IN TO WHAT COUNCIL'S
DIRECTION IS.
SO I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT.

I'LL BE WORKING WITH THIS AS WELL SETTING FORTH WHAT COUNCIL
HAS DIRECTED ME TO DO.
THANK YOU.
3:38:00PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILWOMAN
HURTAK.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN GUDES.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
3:38:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU, MR. GIBBONS, FOR PUTTING THIS IN
SUCH A NICE SUCCINCT QUESTION FORMAT SO I COULD MAKE THE
MOTION SO QUICKLY.
THANK YOU.
3:38:18PM >> I'M CAROL KAMISA.
I FEEL LIKE IT'S NECESSARY BEFORE I MAKE A BRIEF COMMENT ON
FINANCIALS, WHICH WILL BE AN AGE-OLD QUESTION, BUT ADDING
ANOTHER QUESTION.
ON THE SELECTION ISSUE AND I WANT TO STATE THIS BECAUSE I'VE
BEEN INVOLVED IN SEVERAL PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS TO GET
INFORMATION THAT'S PROMISED AND NEVER SEEMS TO COME.
THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE HAVE INCLUDE A MATRIX OF THOSE THREE
CONTRACTORS AS GARY WAS SAYING, AND THOSE WERE THE ONES THAT
WERE SELECTED, THE BIDDERS OUT OF, I DON'T REMEMBER HOW MANY
TOTAL BIDDERS, TO PRESENT THEIR PROPOSAL TO THE CITY.
SO THAT WAS THE INITIAL LINEUP.

AFTER THAT, THERE WAS ANOTHER MEETING THAT WENT THROUGH AN
EVALUATION BASED ON THE PRESENTATIONS.
WE DID NOT GET A SIMILAR MATRIX OF RANKINGS.
I DON'T KNOW THE PROCESSES THAT THEY GO THROUGH AND SOME OF
THIS INFORMATION COULD BE CONFIDENTIAL, BUT WE DID NOT GET A
MATRIX.
WHAT WE GOT WAS A MEMO, A RECOMMENDATION MEMO TO THE MAYOR
THAT SAID THERE WAS A UNANIMOUS DECISION IN FAVOR OF PCL IN
RECOMMENDING HER APPROVAL TO SIGN UP PCL.
NOW, I HEARD -- THAT WASN'T EXACTLY A UNANIMOUS DECISION,
BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY DOCUMENTATION TO THAT EFFECT.
I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
3:39:51PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
EXCUSE ME.
3:39:54PM >> CAROL KAMISA.
I AM A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS GROUP.
I AM NOT A WATER EXPERT OR ENGINEER.
I'VE LEARNED A GREAT DEAL FROM MY COLLEAGUES.
BUT BEFORE COMING TO TAMPA AS A FULL-TIME RESIDENT, I WORKED
FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.
THAT'S WHERE I GOT ALL THIS WHITE HAIR.
I KNOW JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SPENDING PUBLIC MONEY,
ACCOUNTING FOR IT AND REPORTING ON IT, THAT SORT OF THING.
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I'VE BEEN ON THE HILL AND
HAD TO ANSWER VERY, VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE
THINGS.

SO IT'S PRETTY AMAZING TO ME THAT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE,
HAVING THE MONEY GRANTED BY THIS COUNCIL IN FEBRUARY, A YEAR
AGO, AND HAVING BEEN ASKED OR CHARGED WITH REPORTING ON THAT
SIX MONTHS LATER, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN JULY.
DIDN'T HAPPEN.
AND IT'S JUST ASTONISHING TO ME.
SO WE'VE BEEN ASKING THIS, AND I WISH I HAD A VERY NICE
SLIDE TO SHOW YOU ON THE FINANCIALS AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE
TO FIND OUT.
I'M AFRAID THAT SLIDE WOULD HAVE LOTS OF GAPS, LOTS OF
QUESTION MARKS, AND LOTS OF NUMBERS THAT JUST DON'T ADD UP.
SO WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO INSTEAD JUST VERY BRIEFLY IS GIVE YOU
A TIMELINE OF OUR LITTLE ODYSSEY TO TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT THE
MONEY IS, WHAT IT'S BEEN SPENT ON, WHAT'S LEFT, AND SO ON.
SO, COUNCIL CHARGED THE WATER DEPARTMENT WITH REPORTING BACK
IN I WOULD CALCULATE JULY, THE DELIVERABLES AND THE SPENDING
OF THE MONEY THAT WAS GRANTED.
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
INSTEAD, IN EARLY SEPTEMBER MEETING, THE WATER DEPARTMENT
CAME AND ASKED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS WITHOUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE
ANY ACCOUNTING OF THE MONEY THAT WAS ALREADY THERE.
OUR MEETINGS AS STAKEHOLDERS WITH THE WATER DEPARTMENT WERE
CANCELED.
THERE WAS A LOT OF OBFUSCATION.
AT ONE POINT WE WERE TOLD IF WE INSISTED THERE WAS A

BACK-OF-THE-ENVELOPE KIND OF CALCULATION THAT WE COULD GET
ON THE FINANCIALS.
AT ONE POINT, MR. REMER SAID THERE WAS NO MONEY LEFT AND NO
WORK COULD BE DONE, AND JUST A LOT OF QUESTIONS THERE.
WE HAVE NOT MET AS THE COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS GROUP SINCE
SEPTEMBER.
MYSELF AND ANOTHER COMMUNITY MEMBER DID MAKE A SEPARATE
MEETING WITH THE WATER DEPARTMENT.
CHUCK WEBER PRECISELY.
AND WE WERE TOLD THAT WE COULD GO THROUGH AND ASK SOME VERY
SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.
WE WERE WORKING OFF OF A DOCUMENT, AN INVOICE FROM PCL THAT
WE GOT THROUGH A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.
THIS WAS AN INVOICE THAT COVERED THE PERIOD APRIL TO JUNE
2022, AND IT WAS IN THE AMOUNT OF $137,000 APPROXIMATELY,
SOME CHANGE.
IT DIDN'T COVER THE FULL PERIOD.
IT DIDN'T SEEM TO JIVE WITH THERE'S NO MONEY LEFT.
WE NEED MORE MONEY, BUT THAT WAS THE INFORMATION WE
RECEIVED.
IN OUR MEETING WITH CHUCK, WE THEN LEARNED ABOUT SOME OTHER
MONIES, A MILLION DOLLARS THAT WAS GOING TO BE USED FOR THIS
SIX PILOT PROGRAM.
I DON'T KNOW.
GARY RAISED THE QUESTION ABOUT THE CONTRACT, WHETHER THAT'S

UNDER PCL OR UNDER THE LARGER BUDGETARY CATEGORY CALLED
PROGRAM THAT PCL FALLS UNDER.
WE ALSO LEARNED ABOUT A GRANT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A
MATCHING GRANT FROM S.W.F.W.M.D.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S A
RELATED WATER KIND OF THING.
SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN THE PLUS COLUMN, HOW THEY
RELATE, INTERRELATE TO THE PCL CONTRACT.
I CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU.
AGAIN, THOSE GAPS AND SO ON.
AND THEN MORE RECENTLY WE'VE SEEN COPIES OF AN INVOICE
COVERING THE PERIOD SEPTEMBER THROUGH DECEMBER, THE END OF
THE CALENDAR YEAR.
AND THAT BRINGS THE TOTAL, PRESUMING THAT IT COVERS THE
INVOICE WE HAD PREVIOUSLY SEEN TO JUST UNDER $400,000.
AGAIN, NOT JIVING WITH THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO MONEY AND WE
NEED MORE MONEY AGAIN, MORE QUESTIONS AND GAPS.
IT ALSO DOESN'T COVER, WAS THERE NO MONEY SPENT BETWEEN
FEBRUARY AND APRIL?
WAS THERE NO MONEY SPENT BETWEEN JUNE AND SEPTEMBER?
JUST NOT A LOT OF CLARITY THERE.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT IN MY BUSINESS AND MY EXPERIENCE WORKING
WITH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND TAXPAYER RESOURCES, YOU HAD
MONTHLY REPORTS OR AT LEAST QUARTERLY REPORTS.
YOU HAD CALCULATIONS OF WE HAD THIS MUCH MONEY, ACCORDING TO

THESE CATEGORIES, THIS HAS BEEN SPENT.
THESE ARE THE DELIVERABLES.
TO ME, THAT'S VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE MAN ON THE STREET CAN
UNDERSTAND, I THINK, OR THE WOMAN ON THE STREET, NOT JUST
COUNCIL AND NOT JUST PEOPLE LIKE US WHO HAVE HAD OUR NOSE IN
THIS FOR A LONG TIME.
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN'T GET THAT INFORMATION.
AND PERSONALLY, WHERE I COME OUT IS EITHER THERE'S
INSUFFICIENT OR MISMANAGEMENT ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE AND/OR
THERE'S OBFUSCATION AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT THEY ARE NOT
TELLING US AND THEY DON'T WANT US TO KNOW.
I JUST COME OUT WITH MORE QUESTIONS AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU
WANT TO ADD IT TO THE 17 AND SO ON.
THAT'S THE EXTENT OF MY COMMENTS.
3:45:58PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:46:01PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THERE'S A PATTERN, AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
IN FAVOR OF THESE KINDS OF PROJECTS, THEY USE THE TERM
CONSPIRACY THEORIST TO TRY TO DISTRACT PEOPLE AWAY FROM
THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON.
WHEN WELL-EDUCATED COMMUNITY LEADERS LIKE YOURSELVES AND
HUNDREDS OF OTHERS OUT THERE LOOKING AT OTHER PROJECTS FIND
THINGS THAT ARE SUSPICIOUS, WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ASK
QUESTIONS AS CITIZENS AND PARTICULARLY AS CITY COUNCIL SINCE
WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR APPROVING OR REJECTING THESE

PROJECTS.
I FIND IT DISTURBING THAT INFORMATION IS NOT EASILY
ACCESSIBLE.
I MYSELF HAVE PULLED PUBLIC RECORDS AND HAVE BEEN CHARGED
ABOUT $4,000 FOR PULLING THE PUBLIC RECORDS AND I STILL
DON'T HAVE ALL OF THEM.
I'M NOT SURE HAVE ALL OF THEM BECAUSE I LOOK TO SEE WHICH
ONES WERE REDACTED AND HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE LIST YET.
IF AN OFFICER OF THE CITY CAN'T GET DOCUMENTS AND EDUCATED
PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC CAN'T GET DOCUMENTS, I DON'T KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON.
THE COMMUNITY MEMBER CALLED ME AND SAID THEY GAVE A VERY
SPECIFIC -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DETAILS, SOMETHING
LIKE THIS.
I WANT THE CONTRACT FROM PCL IN FEBRUARY 2022, AND THE
RESPONSE FROM PUBLIC RECORDS WAS, WHICH CONTRACT ARE YOU
TALKING ABOUT?
UNLESS YOU GIVE US THE SPECIFIC, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE IT
TO YOU.
HOW MANY CONTRACTS ARE THERE?
3:47:25PM >> THEY NEED A CONTRACT NUMBER.
WE'VE GOT A COPY.
3:47:27PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE POINT IS, WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT FOR
FOLKS?
IF YOUR RESPONSE IS THAT OR YOU COULD SAY THERE ARE FOUR

CONTRACTS, WOULD YOU LIKE ALL OF THEM?
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE ARE.
THE POINT IS THE ANSWER BACK IS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT FORCES
YOU TO RELOOK AT IT AGAIN.
WE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE BEEN HARASSED REPEATEDLY BY
PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO HIT US FOR POLITICAL PURPOSE.
THIS IS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC EDUCATED WITH NATIONAL
REPUTATIONS TRYING TO GET INFORMATION TO HONESTLY
OBJECTIVELY EVALUATED.
AND YOU GUYS CAN'T GET THE DOCUMENTS.
IT'S REALLY SAD.
HERE'S SOMETHING I WOULD SUGGEST, THIS IS TO BRAINSTORM AND
NOT MAKE A MOTION.
JUST THE IDEA OF COUNCIL MEMBER HURTAK'S PROPOSAL A LITTLE
WHILE AGO, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW ANY DISCUSSION
ABOUT WATER REUSE IN ANY FORM TO COME BACK UNLESS IT'S
PRESENTED BY THIS TASK FORCE.
AND THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE STAFF WOULD HAVE TO MEET WITH
THE TASK FORCE AND EXPLAIN IT TO THEM AND THEY WOULD EXPLAIN
IT TO US.
BECAUSE I THINK WE AND THE PUBLIC HAVE FAITH IN THEIR
RESPONSES, BUT WHEN WE FIND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT THERE
IS A LACK OF INFORMATION, A LACK OF SPECIFICITY, HIDING
INFORMATION.
IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD.

I GOT LIKE A THREE-PAGE MEMO SAYING THAT ALL OF YOU WERE
COPIED ON A YEAR OR TWO AGO SAYING I WAS MISLEADING THE
PUBLIC BY USING THE TOTAL COST OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT
INSTEAD OF THE CAPITAL COST, WHICH IS COMPLETELY ABSURD.
HOW IS IT MISLEADING THE PUBLIC BY TELLING PEOPLE THE TOTAL
COST?
NOW THEY ARE SAYING THERE IS NO PURE PROJECT, SO THERE'S NO
COST, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST IS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT
HURTS THEM.
THEN SUDDENLY THE MAYOR COMES OUT AND SAYS THERE IS A PURE
PROJECT.
GO BACK TO 2 TO $6 BILLION.
THE WHOLE THING IS SHADY.
AND THERE IS A LOT OF SHADY STUFF, LIKE HANNA AVENUE, THE
INCINERATOR PLANT.
ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
WE NEED TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE CITY.
I HOPE ONCE WE GET PAST THE ELECTIONS WE CAN HAVE IT AGAIN.
THANK YOU.
3:49:36PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
3:49:39PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WELL, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU BECAUSE THAT'S
WHAT I DO, TOO, IN MY DAY JOB BEFORE I JOINED COUNCIL WAS
LOOK AT AND EVALUATE INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS FOR
THAT VERY SAME THING.

YOU HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY PENNY AND IT'S PUBLIC.
I WOULD JUST MAKE A MOTION.
YOU'RE SAYING THE CONTRACT NUMBER IS 21-44.
3:50:03PM >> GARY HAS GOT IT.
3:50:04PM >> YEAH.
3:50:05PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
3:50:06PM >> IN FACT, WE DID GET THAT THROUGH A PUBLIC INFORMATION
REQUEST.
I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SHARE THAT CONTRACT DOCUMENT WITH MR.
SHELBY.
3:50:13PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I'M GOING TO ASK FOR BOTH THE DOCUMENT AND
ALL INVOICES HAVING TO DO WITH IT, AND WE'LL START THERE.
IF THEY ARE VAGUE, WE'LL START WITH MORE SPECIFICITY.
3:50:27PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SPECIFICALLY THE CONTRACT AGAIN.
3:50:29PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
21-44.
3:50:31PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
ASKING FOR?
3:50:32PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
A COPY OF THE CONTRACT AND ALL OF THE
INVOICES TO DATE.
3:50:40PM >> YOU CAN COMPARE THEM WITH WHAT WE HAVE.
AS I TOLD YOU, THERE ARE GAPS.
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE LIKE MR. CARLSON IN GETTING THE
CONTRACT, WE DO HAVE A COPY OF IT.
3:50:50PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I REQUESTED IT ON SOMETHING ELSE.
COULD YOU ASK FOR WORK PRODUCT ALSO?
3:50:56PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OH, ABSOLUTELY.

THE DELIVERABLES, YEAH.
3:51:02PM >>> WHAT THE INVOICES SHOW ARE THE WORK CATEGORIES, PROJECT
MANAGEMENT AND THAT'S HOW THEY CHARGE THEM.
BUT THERE'S NO REAL INDICATION OF DELIVERABLES.
WE GOT THIS REPORT OR THAT SORT OF THING.
YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT YOU'VE GOTTEN --
3:51:17PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
I WANT CONTRACT FOR 21-44.
INVOICES, ALL INVOICES FOR THE ENTIRE CONTRACT, AND ALL
DELIVERABLES FOR THAT CONTRACT, ALSO FOR MARCH 16, 2023.
3:51:37PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
SIGNIFICANCE OF THE DATE?
MARCH 16, 2023?
HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT DATE.
3:51:45PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT IS THE NEXT -- IT IS A MONTH FROM NOW.
3:51:49PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THAT IS THE DATE YOU'RE ASKING FOR IT TO
COME BACK.
3:51:52PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
3:51:54PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
YOU'VE ASKED, JUST SO I'M CLEAR, AND I WANT
TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU JUST PURSUANT TO THE
RULES, YOU'VE ASKED ME TO COME BACK NEXT WEEK ON AN ITEM
RELATED TO THIS.
THEN YOU'VE ASKED THE CITY TO COME BACK TO ANSWER THE
QUESTIONS ON THE NEXT WEEK AFTER THAT RELATED TO THIS.
3:52:12PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
BUT THEY ARE NOT RELATED.
3:52:14PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THIS CONTRACT IS NOT RELATED TO --

3:52:18PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO.
WHAT WE ASKED YOU TO DO IS WHAT DO WE DO TO STOP IT.
3:52:23PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IT VERY WELL MAY BE IF THERE IS A CONTRACT
IN EFFECT.
3:52:27PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING FORWARD.
HOW DO WE KILL THIS GOING FORWARD, NO MORE CONTRACTS, NO
MORE ANYTHING.
WHEREAS THIS I WANT TO ANSWER WHAT HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY.
THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC IS ASKING.
THEY ARE ASKING, WHAT IS THE CONTRACT?
WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE?
WHAT DELIVERABLES HAVE WE GOTTEN?
AND THEN WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THIS?
3:52:49PM >> IF I CAN JUST ADD A LITTLE FOOTNOTE, AND IT SOMEWHAT
RELATES TO COUNCILMAN CARLSON'S USE OF THE WORD SHADY, WHEN
YOU HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS AND GAPS, IT LEADS YOU TO THINK
THERE'S MAYBE SOMETHING UNDER THE COVERS TO LOOK AT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEPLY YOU WANT TO GO IN ASKING QUESTIONS
ABOUT THIS CONTRACT.
BUT ONE OF THE SUBCONTRACTORS, AS YOU KNOW, HISTORICALLY,
COROLLA WAS PREVIOUSLY INVOLVED IN TOILET TO TAP, THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT RINGS SOME BELLS.
IN ADDITION, AFTER FEBRUARY, PCL LOST THE PUBLIC OUTREACH
SUBCONTRACTOR.
AND THEY TOOK SOME TIME TO FIND A NEW ONE BECAUSE OF SCOPE

CHANGES AND SO ON.
I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEPLY YOU WANT TO GO, BUT THERE'S BEEN
SOME CHANGES AT THAT LEVEL.
I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT DELIVERABLES WERE
PERFORMED IN RELATION TO PUBLIC EDUCATION BECAUSE I FEEL
LIKE THIS GROUP IN A MATTER OF MONTHS OR EVEN WEEKS PRIOR TO
THE SEPTEMBER COUNCIL MEETING SPENT MORE TIME IN THE
COMMUNITY IN EDUCATING PEOPLE ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS THAN WAS
EVER PERFORMED UNDER THE CONTRACT.
I'M NOT SURE HOW DEEPLY YOU WANT TO GO.
BUT THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ROUTE IS KIND OF IFFY FOR US AND
WE'RE HAPPY TO SUPPLEMENT OR COMPARE WHAT YOU GET.
3:54:22PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I'LL START HERE AND SEE WHERE WE GO, AND THEN
WE CAN SEE IF WE NEED TO GO DEEPER, WE WILL.
THANK YOU.
3:54:30PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILWOMAN
HURTAK.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION CARRIES.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
3:54:42PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WONDER, ANY OF YOU, DOES IT SEEM ODD THAT
SINCE WE'RE AT THE CONCEPT STAGE AND THE RESEARCH STAGE AND
MAYBE THE ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS STAGE THAT THE CITY WOULD

HIRE A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY AS THE LEAD CONTRACTOR?
WOULDN'T YOU HIRE A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY WHEN YOU'RE WANTING
TO BUILD SOMETHING INSTEAD OF -- I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY, BUT IT SEEMS ODD THAT YOU WOULD.
3:55:08PM >> LOOKING BACK AT THE TAP DOCUMENTS, THEY HAD A LIST --
3:55:12PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
JUST FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.
3:55:15PM >> NANCY STEVENS.
LOOKING BACK AT THE TAP DOCUMENTS THAT THEY REFERENCED, LIST
OF ALL THE DOCUMENTS THAT THEY HAD PRODUCED BY 2018.
MOST OF THEM WERE IMPLEMENTATION DOCUMENTS.
SO UNDER THE TAP PROJECT, THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK ON HOW TO
IMPLEMENT IT.
AGAIN, ALL THAT DOCUMENTATION SHOULD BE --
3:55:33PM >>BILL CARLSON:
BUT THE PCL CONTRACT IS WHEN THEY HAD SAID
TO US THAT THEY WERE GOING TO START COMPLETELY OVER, LOOK AT
ALL THE ALTERNATIVES, BUT THEN THEY HIRED A CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY AS THE LEAD CONTRACTOR.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WOULD ONLY HIRE A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY
IF YOU WERE ALREADY PLANNING ON BUILDING SOMETHING.
REMEMBER THE DISCUSSION WE HAD OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IS THIS
A PROJECT OR PROCESS?
SOMETIMES THEY'LL SAY PROCESS BUT MOST OF THE TIME WE'RE
TRYING TO BUILD THE PROCESS WITH THE ION EXCHANGE AND WE
WANT TO MOVE DOWN, IT'S STILL TAP.
THERE'S THIS OTHER DISCUSSION, BUT THEN IT'S STILL TAP.

THE FACT THAT THE STAFF SAID NOW ALL OF THIS IS DONE, WE'RE
GOING TO COMPLETELY START OVER AGAIN JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS
AGO AND THEN THE MAYOR COMES OUT WITH A WHOLE VIDEO ABOUT
PURE.
3:56:17PM >> CAROL AND I DID ATTEND THE CONFERENCE WHERE THE THREE
CONTRACTORS WERE PRESENTING AND WE BOTH KIND OF LIKED JACOBS
BECAUSE THEY WERE COMING IN WITH NEW IDEAS, PRETTY SURED
APPROACHES, STAGED APPROACH TO IMPLEMENTING IT, LOOKING AT
THE NEEDS.
JACOBS WASN'T SELECTED.
3:56:37PM >> I THINK I'M LAST.
PHIL COMPTON.
I'D LIKE TO REMIND YOU, FIRST OF ALL, HOW WE GOT HERE.
I'M WITH FRIENDS OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER.
WE'RE THE CITIZENS GROUP THAT HAD TO COME TOGETHER 24 YEARS
AGO TO STAND UP FOR THE RIVER WHEN NO ONE ELSE COULD OR
WOULD.
BACK IN 1999 WHEN S.W.F.W.M.D. WAS FIRST WORKING ON
ESTABLISHING A MINIMUM FLOW RULE FOR THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER
AFTER 35 YEARS OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT BY THE CITY, MAYOR GRECO
TOLD S.W.F.W.M.D. THAT IF THERE WERE TO BE A MINIMUM FLOW
FOR THE -- BELOW THE DAM, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE 100% SULPHUR
SPRINGS WATER.
ALL THE FRESHWATER IN THE RIVER WAS THE CITY'S PROPERTY.
OUR APPEAL OF THE RULE RESULTED IN FIVE-YEAR SCIENTIFIC

STUDY THAT PROVED THAT WE WERE RIGHT, THAT THE RIVER'S
ESTUARY BELOW THE DAM DOES NEED A COMBINATION OF SPRINGS
WATER AND CLEAN FRESHWATER.
THEN YEARS LATER, MAYOR IORIO PROPOSED USING TREATED
WASTEWATER AS THE SOURCE OF THE FRESHWATER.
BUT PUBLIC OUTCRY PREVENTED THAT AND RESULTED IN THE USE OF
THE WATER AS MR. FLANNERY DESCRIBED WITH A COMBINATION OF
THE SPRINGS WATER AND FRESHWATER.
UNTIL QUITE RECENTLY, HOWEVER, CITY STAFF RESISTED THAT
APPROACH USING ONLY SULPHUR SPRINGS WATER INSTEAD OF ANY OF
THE ABUNDANT CLEAN, FRESHWATER THAT'S BEEN DESIGNATED FOR
USE IN THE MINIMUM FLOW.
HERE WE ARE TODAY WITH MAYOR CASTOR'S STAFF NOW PROPOSING
THAT INSTEAD OF USING THE CLEAN FRESHWATER THAT WE HAVE
AVAILABLE FOR THE ESTUARY WHERE THE FISH OF TAMPA BAY COME
UP RIVER TO SPAWN IN THE SPRING, THE STAFF IS PROPOSING THAT
WE INSTEAD USE TREATED WASTEWATER BECAUSE IT WILL NOT ONLY
BE SAFE FOR THE FISH WHO SPAWN THERE, BUT IT WILL ALSO BE
SAFE FOR OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN TO DRINK.
BUT WILL IT BE SAFE?
THE CITY HAS NOT DECIDED WHAT THE ADDITIONAL METHODS OF
TREATMENT OF THE WASTEWATER WILL BE UNDER PURE.
IN OTHER WORDS, THEY HAVE YET TO TELL THE CITIZENS HOW THE
CITY WILL TREAT THE RECLAIMED WATER TO SUFFICIENTLY REMOVE
THE CONTAMINANTS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FOREVER

CHEMICALS THAT YOU'RE HEARING SO MUCH ABOUT, THE PFAS, THE
PHARMACEUTICALS, EVERYTHING YOU GET AT A CVS, WALGREENS OR
WHAT HAVE YOU.
HORMONES, HEAVY METALS, PATHOGENS, ET CETERA.
BEFORE THEY, OF COURSE, AS YOU KNOW, PUT IT INTO THE
RESERVOIR ABOVE THE DAM AND INTO OUR DRINKING WATER SUPPLY,
USED IT FOR THE MINIMUM FLOW FOR THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER
BELOW THE DAM WHERE FISH OF TAMPA BAY COME UP RIVER IN THE
SPRING TO SPAWN OR STORING ANY OF IT IN THE AQUIFER.
THERE ARE NO FLORIDA OR UNITED STATES DRINKING WATER
STANDARDS YET ESTABLISHED THAT SET SAFE LEVELS OF THE
CONTAMINANTS KNOWN TO BE IN RECLAIMED WATER.
IN OTHER WORDS, UNDER CURRENT LAW, TAMPA ISN'T REQUIRED TO
TEST FOR THOSE CONTAMINANTS OR TELL YOU WHAT LEVELS REMAIN
IN THE RECLAIMED WATER TO MEET DRINKING WATER STANDARDS.
SO IF STAFF ARE TELLING YOU THEY'LL TREAT THE RECLAIMED
WATER TO CURRENT DRINKING WATER STANDARDS, THEY ARE AGAIN
NOT TELLING YOU THE WHOLE STORY.
THEY ARE LEAVING OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, SAYING YOU'LL
MEET CURRENT DRINKING WATER STANDARDS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE
QUESTION OF HUMAN HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY AND FAILS
TO EQUATE TO A SUFFICIENT SAFETY STANDARD FOR PURE.
AND NO AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT YOU COULD PROVIDE FOR STAFF
CAN RESULT IN THE CREATION OF STANDARDS THAT WE MUST HAVE TO
KNOW IF THIS WATER IS SAFE.

IT'S NOT FOR ANY OF US TO SET THOSE STANDARDS.
IT'S WAY ABOVE EVERYONE HERE'S PAY GRADE.
IT IS THE JOB OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL OFFICIALS.
EVEN FOR THE TYPE OF CONTAMINANTS FOR WHICH WE DO HAVE
STANDARDS, THERE ARE QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED.
THE STUDY SHOULD CAPTURE PEAK CONTAMINANT LEVELS.
THOSE CAN VARY BY DAY AND HOUR.
IT'S LIKELY THAT THE STAFF MIGHT HAVE MISSED THOSE PEAK
CONTAMINANT LEVELS IN THEIR MEASUREMENTS.
WHAT DO INDUSTRIES DUMP INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM?
WHAT TIME OF DAY DOES THAT HAPPEN?
WE NEED A MORE RIGOROUS CONTAMINANT STUDY AND NEEDS TO BE
AVAILABLE ONLINE.
WE NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE WHAT IS IN THE WATER BEFORE WE TRY
TO DEMONSTRATE ONE APPROACH OR ANOTHER WOULD BE EFFECTIVE IN
ELIMINATING CONTAMINATION.
TELLING YOU NOT TO WORRY THAT THE RIVER IS ALREADY
CONTAMINATED WITHOUT REAL NUMBERS FROM THE RIVER AND FROM
THE WASTEWATER WOULD BE ADDING TO THE RIVER, TELLS US
NOTHING AND IS A DISSERVICE TO US ALL.
ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL WATER RESEARCH INSTITUTE, QUOTE,
MORE MONITORING IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT FURTHER DEVELOPMENT,
DESIGN, IMPLEMENTATION, AND LONG-TERM OPERATION OF THE TAMPA
PURE PROJECT AND IS DESCRIBED IN RECOMMENDATIONS BELOW.
MONITORING IS NEEDED NOT ONLY FOR THE TRADITIONAL PARAMETERS

SUCH AS TOTAL DISSOLVED SOLIDS, TOTAL ORGANIC COMPOUND AND
NUTRIENTS BUT ALSO FOR PATHOGENS, MICROBIAL SURROGATES AND
ARRAY OF CHEMICAL CONSTITUENTS OF CONCERN, INCLUDING
RECALCITRANT ORGANICS AND WASTEWATER SOURCES.
THIS IS THE TYPE OF POLLUTION, CONTAMINATION THAT WE WOULD
BE DEALING WITH FOR THE FIRST TIME.
WE HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THAT UP TO DATE.
IF THE STAFF TELLS YOU THAT THEY DO, THEY DON'T.
I UNDERSTAND NOW THAT SOME OF YOU MAY FAVOR REVERSE OSMOSIS,
RO.
THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE CONCERN AS THAT WOULD ELIMINATE
100% OF ALL CONTAMINANTS LEAVING JUST H 2 O.
COOL, RIGHT?
AS YOU KNOW, R.O. IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE WAY TO GO AND STAFF
HAVE RESISTED THE APPROACH DUE TO THEIR DESIRE TO ONLY
PROVIDE US WITH ALL THE TREATMENT WE CAN AFFORD.
AND IT WOULD BE EXPENSIVE.
BUT WHY SHOULD WE GO THAT ROUTE?
WHY SHOULD TAMPA'S TAXPAYERS FOOT THE BILL FOR REVERSE
OSMOSIS SYSTEM WHEN THERE'S ALREADY A BIG ONE RIGHT HERE IN
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY?
ONE WHOSE COST WAS BORN NOT JUST BY ABOUT HALF A MILLION
TAMPA TAXPAYERS, BUT BY THE SEVERAL MILLION TAXPAYERS OF THE
ENTIRE TAMPA BAY REGION.
THE TAMPA BAY WATER SYSTEM COULD BE EXPANDED AND TAMPA BAY

WATER COULD BUILD ADDITIONAL R.O. SYSTEMS, AND THEY ARE
THINKING ABOUT THAT.
WHY SHOULD TAMPA HAVE ITS OWN DUPLICATE SYSTEM THAT WOULD
ADD TO THE COST OF OUR WATER FAR MORE THAN RELYING ON TAMPA
BAY WATER FOR THE RARE OCCASION WHEN WE NEED A LITTLE MORE
THAN THE RIVER CAN PROVIDE?
THERE'S SOME OLD-TIMEY THINKING IN THE CITY AMONG STAFF AND
HERE ON COUNCIL, GOING BACK DECADES, THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE
OUR VERY OWN SYSTEM, THAT WE CAN'T TRUST A REGIONAL SYSTEM.
THAT FEAR WOULD RESULT IN A VERY EXPENSIVE LUXURY OF A
DUPLICATE SYSTEM OR OUR OWN SOMEWHAT LESS EXPENSIVE SYSTEM
THAT'S INFERIOR TO WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE AVAILABLE THROUGH
TAMPA BAY WATER.
SO WHAT WOULD THE COST BE?
YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN THIS BEFORE.
THIS WAS PRESENTED TO YOU ON MAY 20 LAST YEAR BY JUTURNA
CONSULTING.
WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.
STAFF HAVEN'T TOLD US AND HAVEN'T TOLD YOU.
WHAT WE DO KNOW IS IT COULD MEAN AN AVERAGE INCREASE OF
ANYWHERE FROM 35 TO 79 DOLLARS A MONTH ON OUR WATER BILLS.
THAT ESTIMATE IS DRAWN FROM THIS REPORT AND DIVIDING THAT BY
ASSUMING 170,000 WATER CUSTOMER ACCOUNTS.
ANYWHERE FROM THE 2.1 BILLION, TO 4.9 BILLION.
FINALLY, I UNDERSTAND LAST NIGHT SOME OF YOU SAW HOW MANY

ENGAGED VOTERS WANT US TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS RISKY,
EXPENSIVE AND REALLY NOT NECESSARY PLAN, NOT A ONE, RIGHT?
DON'T WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS THAT CRY OUT RIGHT NOW AS WE WERE
REMINDED THIS MORNING BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WILL
GOING FORWARD FOR YEARS TO COME FOR FUNDS THAT WE NOW SAY WE
DON'T HAVE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION,
AND SUSTAINABLE CITY HERE ON THE WATER AT A TIME WHEN THE
SEAS ARE RISING AND WILL ONE DAY TOO SOON RISE ABOVE OUR
FRONT DOORS WHEN IT STORMS.
YOU STOPPED PURE BEFORE.
YOU THOUGHT.
BUT LIKE A ZOMBIE, IT WILL COME BACK BEFORE YOU.
THIS TIME WITH THE SUPPORT OF, WELL, AMONG OTHERS,
STAKEHOLDERS, ASSOCIATED INDUSTRIES, HARDLY THE KIND OF
STAKEHOLDER THAT VOTERS WOULD RECOGNIZE AS HAVING A VALID
INTEREST IN OUR CITY'S FUTURE.
PLEASE, AND THANK YOU FOR THE ACTION THAT YOU'RE TAKING
TODAY.
SAY NO TODAY.
SAY NO TOMORROW.
AND SAY NO FOREVER TO THIS HAREBRAINED PLAN.
AND TELL THE MAYOR AND HER STAFF TO GET TO WORK ON DOING OUR
PART FOR REGIONAL SOLUTION THAT DOESN'T ROB OUR CITY'S
CAPACITY TO SOLVE OUR REAL PROBLEMS.
THANK YOU.

4:05:28PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
4:05:33PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING
THAT UP.
WHEN WE APPROVED THE SIXTH PILOT, THAT WAS ONE OF MY
QUESTIONS WAS, WELL, WHAT IS IN THE WASTEWATER THAT WE'RE
TRYING TO GET RID OF?
THEY COULDN'T TELL ME.
THEY SAID, THOUGH, I MEAN, IN THEORY, A PILOT TEST WOULD
HAVE A BENCHMARK AND THEN WHAT ELSE.
HOPEFULLY WE SHOULD HAVE THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE ONCE
THAT STUDY IS DONE.
THAT WILL AT LEAST GIVE US A BASELINE OF WHAT WE'RE
CURRENTLY PUTTING OUT BECAUSE THAT WAS MY FIRST QUESTION,
TOO.
HOW DO YOU IMPROVE UPON IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT --
4:06:09PM >> RIGHT.
BUT YOU STILL DON'T KNOW IF YOU REDUCE IT TO SOMETHING
GREATER THAN ZERO, IF THAT IS A SAFE LEVEL FOR A LITTLE
GIRL, LIKE THE LITTLE GIRL WHO WAS HERE TODAY AND --
DRINKING THAT WATER ALL HER LIFE.
WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO TO HER?
WE DON'T KNOW.
BUT LET'S TAKE A CHANCE AND FIND OUT, SHALL WE?
THANK YOU.
4:06:31PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.

4:06:32PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
4:06:33PM >>BILL CARLSON:
ONE QUICK QUESTION.
DID YOU SAY AIF IS SUPPORTING THIS, THE ASSOCIATED
INDUSTRIES --
4:06:40PM >> ASSOCIATED INDUSTRIES WAS LISTED AS ONE OF THE
STAKEHOLDERS THAT THE CITY HAS ASSEMBLED.
ALONG WITH FRIENDS OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER AND LEAGUE OF
WOMEN VOTERS AND SO FORTH.
THEY'VE ADDED TO THE STAKEHOLDERS.
4:06:54PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE OTHER BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS OUTSIDE OF
TAMPA ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT'S A HUGE UNFUNDED
MANDATE AND HUGE TAX INCREASE BECAUSE OF IT.
4:07:04PM >> BASICALLY AS WE CHARACTERIZED EARLIER, THE LEADERS OF THE
WATER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX ARE NOW BEING CONSIDERED
STAKEHOLDERS, LIKE CITIZENS ARE.
4:07:14PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
QUESTIONS, COMMENTS?
4:07:18PM >> THERE WAS A STUDY DONE BY THE CITY TO TEST A DELIVERABLE
DONE BY CAR LOW CONSULTING.
OCTOBER 2020.
THAT HAD A VERY EXTENSIVE STUDY OF THE CONTAMINANTS IN THE
WASTEWATER, THE DRINKING WATER AND THE RAW WATER AND BIG
APPENDIX.
I DIDN'T PRINT OUT THE APPENDIX.
IT'S THIS THICK.
IF YOU REQUEST THAT, IT'S A BIG DOCUMENT.

I MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHARE IT WITH YOU.
4:07:44PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
CAN YOU SHARE THE DATE AGAIN?
4:07:46PM >> OCTOBER 2020. DELIVERABLE, OCTOBER 2020.
TASK 8.
THERE WERE THAT MANY TASKS.
A LOT OF TAP DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY ARE REFERENCING.
4:08:15PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IF I CAN, IF YOU CAN INQUIRE, WOULD THAT
ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?
WOULD THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT WAS RAISED AS TO WHAT'S
IN THE WATER?
4:08:24PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO, BECAUSE I'M LOOKING FOR OUR BASELINE
TODAY IN 2023, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID IN THAT SIXTH
PILOT, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE US THE BASELINE OF WHAT'S
NOW.
2020 IS A FINE ONE AS WELL, BUT THE PROJECT THAT THEY ARE
PUTTING ON CURRENTLY, THAT PILOT SHOULD ANSWER THAT
QUESTION.
4:08:43PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT IS COMING BACK?
4:08:46PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I DO NOT.
IT IS A SIX-MONTH PILOT.
SO I WOULD ASSUME IT WOULD TAKE THREE MONTHS AFTERWARDS TO
GET A REPORT TOGETHER.
GENERALLY, THOSE TAKE ABOUT A YEAR.
4:08:57PM >> I'VE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS REPORT AND I QUESTIONED
WHETHER 12 SAMPLES OF WASTEWATER CONTAMINANT IS ENOUGH AND

WHETHER THE ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS WERE COMPLETE AND ACTUALLY
CAUGHT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE CONTAMINANTS, AND THEY
NEVER RESPONDED TO THAT QUESTION.
4:09:16PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
JUST A REMINDER, IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE
FROM THE PUBLIC BEFORE YOU CLOSE OUT THE WORKSHOP, TO TAKE
PUBLIC COMMENT, IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTED TO SAY
ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE PRESENTERS?
AT THREE MINUTES.
4:09:28PM >> I WAS SUPPOSED TO BUT I'M GOING TO PASS.
[ LAUGHTER ]
4:09:31PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
ARE YOU SURE?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
4:09:35PM >>BILL CARLSON:
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ASK
THE -- WHAT DO YOU CALL YOURSELVES, WORKING GROUP OR
SOMETHING?
STAKEHOLDER GROUP.
4:09:45PM >> CITIZENS.
4:09:47PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE CITIZENS STAKEHOLDER GROUP TO COME BACK
TO GIVE US AN UPDATE AT THE AUGUST 31 WORKSHOP.
4:09:56PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
4:09:57PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.

4:10:07PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
4:10:23PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE WILL WAIT TO RECEIVE AND FILE UNTIL AFTER
TONIGHT'S.
EXCUSE ME.
MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
4:10:30PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
SECOND.
I MADE THE MOTION TO MOVE IT.
4:10:33PM >>JOSEPH CITRO:
WE HAVE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE BY
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
ALL IN FAVOR?
INFORMATION REPORTS WILL BE AT TONIGHT'S SESSION.
WE ARE ADJOURNED.
[ SOUNDING GAVEL ]

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