TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2026, 9:00 A.M.

DISCLAIMER:
THIS FILE REPRESENTS AN UNEDITED VERSION OF REALTIME
CAPTIONING WHICH SHOULD NEITHER BE RELIED UPON FOR COMPLETE
ACCURACY NOR USED AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT.
ANY PERSON WHO NEEDS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE
PROCEEDINGS MAY NEED TO HIRE A COURT REPORTER.

9:03:35AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WELCOME TO TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP.
I WOULD LIKE TO RECOGNIZE COUNCILMAN BILL CARLSON.
9:03:39AM >>BILL CARLSON:
GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY.
TODAY, WE ACCIDENTALLY HAVE TWO PEOPLE SHOW UP TO DO THE
INVOCATION.
WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS HAVE CAPTAIN CHAPLAIN LOCKHART
FROM MacDILL, THANK YOU FOR COMING ALL THE WAY OVER HERE
AND REPRESENTING TO DO THE INVOCATION.
AND JAMIE ADAIR, WHO IS SITTING BEHIND HIM, IS GOING TO LEAD
US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, A RESIDENT OF SOUTH TAMPA.
TURNS OUT THAT HE WENT TO SCHOOL WITH COUNCIL MEMBER VIERA.
I'M SURE WE'LL HEAR SOME STORIES LATER.
IF EVERYONE WILL PLEASE RISE AND THEY WILL HAND OFF TO DO
THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
THANK YOU.
9:04:16AM >> IF YOU'LL PRAY WITH ME.
GRACIOUS AND ETERNAL GOD, WE COME BEFORE YOU IN THIS CHAMBER
REPRESENTING A COMMUNITY WOVEN TOGETHER BY A COMMON PURPOSE

OF SERVICE TO ONE ANOTHER AND SUPPORTING THE EVERYDAY LIVES
OF THOSE WHO CALL THIS PLACE HOME.
THIS PLACE THAT INCLUDES MILITARY SERVICE MEMBERS, FAMILY
MEMBERS OF THOSE DEPLOYED, WOMEN AND MEN IN AND OUT OF
UNIFORM WHO HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES IN SERVICE TO THIS
NATION.
WHEN ASKED WHAT WE ARE TO DO, A PROPHET SAID WE ARE TO ACT
JUSTLY, TO LOVE MERCY AND WALK HUMBLY WITH GOD.
SO LORD, TODAY, IN THIS MEETING, LET THOSE WORDS BURN WITHIN
US.
STIR US TO DO JUSTICE, TO BE FAIR IN OUR DECISIONS, TO HAVE
EQUITY IN OUR POLICIES AND PROTECT THE VULNERABLE AMONG US.
IGNITE IN US A DEEP LOVE OF MERCY.
THAT WE WOULD BE KIND, THAT COMPASSION WOULD HEAL OUR
DIVISIONS AND GRACE BIND US TOGETHER.
AND TEACH US TO WALK HUMBLY, RECOGNIZING THAT TRUE
LEADERSHIP LISTENS BEFORE SPEAKING, SERVES BEFORE BEING
SERVED AND HONORS GOD BY HONORING ONE ANOTHER.
IN THIS SHARED SPACE, EMPOWER THIS COUNCIL TO LEAD WITH
INTEGRITY AND WITH COURAGE, AND MAY OUR ACTIONS REFLECT
MUTUAL SERVICE FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
UNITE US, O GOD, IN THIS HIGH CALLING, AND LET OUR WORK
TOGETHER BE A LIVING TESTIMONY TO WHAT YOU REQUIRE.
WE HUMBLY PRAY IN YOUR NAME, AMEN.
[PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]

9:06:01AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I HAVE A JOKE ABOUT GUIDO JUMPING THE GUN,
BUT I'LL REFRAIN FROM THAT.
GOOD MORNING, CLERK.
CAN WE GET A ROLL CALL, PLEASE?
9:06:11AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
HERE.
9:06:12AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
HERE.
9:06:12AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
HERE.
9:06:14AM >>NAYA YOUNG:
HERE.
9:06:15AM >>LUIS VIERA:
HERE.
9:06:16AM >>BILL CARLSON:
HERE.
9:06:17AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
HERE.
9:06:18AM >>THE CLERK:
WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM.
9:06:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
GOOD MORNING.
LET'S DO A LITTLE CLEANUP ON THE AGENDA.
I HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON REQUESTING THAT ITEM
5 BE RECEIVED AND FILED.
CAN I GET A MOTION?
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
I HAVE A MEMO FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON REQUESTING THAT ITEMS
6 AND 7 BE CONTINUED TO THE OCTOBER 22nd WORKSHOP.

I'M SORRY.
IS IT THE 23rd?
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
VERY GOOD.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING FOR THE AGENDA?
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
9:06:58AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WE HAVE A WRITTEN REPORT ABOUT APPROVED AND
ACTIVE SIGNS, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THE DEVELOPMENT -- I
THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DIGITAL SIGNS.
9:07:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE 4 AND 8.
9:07:22AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
8 IS ONLY JUST MAKING WRITTEN REPORT.
THEN I'LL MAKE THAT AT THE END OF THE MEETING.
9:07:31AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CAN WE GET A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE
NUMBER 8?
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
SECOND FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
9:07:40AM >>LUIS VIERA:
IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR, SAME THING FOR NUMBER 4,
IF I MAY.

RECEIVE AND FILE.
9:07:47AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE --
NO, THAT WAS A DISCUSSION.
9:07:52AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
BUT IT SAID TRANSMITTING A WRITTEN REPORT.
9:07:54AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I WANT TO MAKE SURE NOBODY WANTED A
DISCUSSION.
9:07:57AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO.
BUT I WILL HAVE SOMETHING AT THE END TO ACTUALLY GET STARTED
ON THE CONVERSATION.
9:08:01AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA TO RECEIVE
AND FILE ITEM NUMBER 4.
WHO IS THE SECOND?
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO SECONDED.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
9:08:09AM >>BILL CARLSON:
CAN I MAKE ONE QUICK COMMENT ABOUT 8 SINCE
WE'RE RECEIVING AND FILING?
9:08:13AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
SURE.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:08:15AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE REPORT, THERE IS A LONG REPORT ABOUT
THIS, IT TALKS ABOUT TWO THAT WERE PERMITTED BY STAFF IN
DOWNTOWN, WHICH APPARENTLY WAS LEGAL PER CITY COUNCIL RULES
FROM YEARS AGO.
HOWEVER, THE CURRENT USE WITH ACTIVE MOTION, THE CITY

ATTORNEY TOLD ME HAS NOT BEEN PERMITTED AND IS OUT OF CODE
RIGHT NOW.
I THINK, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY CITY
COUNCIL.
THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STATUS OF AT LEAST THE
SIGN AT THE ARENA REGARDING WHAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO WITH
IT.
ALSO MAY BE A QUESTION ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH
THEM TO THE BILLBOARD COMPANIES.
BUT WE CAN DISCUSS THAT ANOTHER TIME.
I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THERE'S BEEN OPPOSITION FROM
REPRESENTATIVES OF THE LIGHTNING REGARDING OTHER PEOPLE
HAVING DIGITAL SIGNS WHEN THEIR SIGN IS OUT OF CODE.
THANK YOU.
9:09:11AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
A COUPLE OF ANNOUNCEMENTS TO MAKE.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT BOARD APPOINTMENTS.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A HABIT OF ANNOUNCING THE BOARD
APPOINTMENTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETINGS.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE EVERYONE AWARE THAT WE HAVE THE
FOLLOWING POSITIONS OPEN ON OUR CITY COUNCIL APPOINTEES.
NEIGHBORHOOD REPRESENTATIVE ON THE NATURAL RESOURCE ADVISORY
COMMITTEE.
A BOARD MEMBER ON THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION.
ALTERNATE MEMBER ON THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION.
ARCHITECT ON THE BARRIO LATINO COMMISSION.

RESIDENT OF THE YBOR CITY HISTORICAL DISTRICT ON THE BARRIO
LATINO COMMISSION.
ALTERNATE MEMBER ON CODE ENFORCEMENT PUBLIC NUISANCE
ABATEMENT BOARD.
QUALIFICATIONS FOR THOSE ITEMS, SOME OF THEM REQUIRE CERTAIN
QUALIFICATIONS ARE AVAILABLE ON TAMPA CITY WEBSITE.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, OF COURSE, REACH OUT TO YOUR
MEMBER OF CITY COUNCIL OR ONE OF YOUR AT-LARGE MEMBERS OF
CITY COUNCIL.
ANOTHER ANNOUNCEMENT, REACHED OUT BY THE CLERK AND CTTV, IT
APPEARS AS THOUGH THEY SOMETIMES HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME WITH
US IF WE TALK OVER EACH OTHER OR IF SOMEBODY IS SPEAKING OUT
OF TURN, WITH CLOSED CAPTIONING, AND THEN CAPTURING THE
MINUTES.
SO I WANT TO REMIND COUNCILPERSONS, WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE
ACKNOWLEDGED SO WE CAN ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME AND YOU TALK
INDEPENDENTLY, AND THE CLOSED CAPTIONING AND THE CLERK CAN
CAPTURE THE MINUTES ACCURATELY.
HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME KIND OF DISCERNING THOSE ISSUES.
MR. SHELBY, YOU LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE READY TO SAY SOMETHING.
9:10:36AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
NO, SIR.
THANK YOU.
9:10:37AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
AND YOU ARE ANTICIPATING THE BEGINNING OF
THIS MEETING.
ALSO, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL HAVE A NICE SHORT MEETING TODAY

AND TONIGHT.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE QUICK AND EASY.
9:10:50AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WE HISTORICALLY CALL THAT A JINX.
9:10:55AM >>BILL CARLSON:
SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE AGENDA?
9:10:57AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
YES, SIR.
9:11:00AM >>BILL CARLSON:
YOU DIDN'T SAY MY NAME.
9:11:01AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SAY MY NAME.
9:11:05AM >>BILL CARLSON:
LAST WEEK, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW IN NEW
BUSINESS WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE NEED BACKUP DOCUMENTS SO THE
PUBLIC IS NOT BLINDSIDED.
I GOT A LOT -- MAYBE YOU ALL DID TOO.
I GOT A LOT OF CALLS AND E-MAILS ABOUT THE PUBLIC BEING
UPSET THAT SEVERAL OF THE ITEMS DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT
BACKUP.
I THINK WE'VE GOT A MOTION GOING FORWARD TO CHANGE THAT,
THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE VERBAL PRESENTATIONS THAT INCLUDE
DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE
THE PUBLIC DESERVES A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT IN ADVANCE.
THANK YOU.
9:11:36AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAD TWO FOLKS REGISTERED FOR ONLINE
PUBLIC COMMENTS.
BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED AND FILED.
MR. RANDOLPH AND MR. DOSS, I KNOW YOU ARE PROBABLY STANDING
BY, BUT BOTH HAVE BEEN RECEIVED AND FILED SO WE WILL NOT BE

DOING PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THOSE ITEMS TODAY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SOME WERE MOVED TO OCTOBER.
WE'LL SEE YOU IN OCTOBER FOR THOSE.
OKAY.
HERE WE GO.
ITEM NUMBER 1.
9:12:13AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
DENNIS ROGERO, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO LISTEN TO OUR
PRESENTATION TODAY.
WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF PRESENTATIONS.
WE'LL BEGIN WITH THE PENSION FUND.
CAN I HAVE THE PENSION FUND UP, PLEASE?
AND THERE IT IS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
OUR PENSION OVERVIEW AS REQUESTED BY COUNCIL.
HERE IS THE MOTION IN PARTICULAR ABOUT THE HEALTH OF TAMPA'S
PENSIONS AND AN EXPLANATION OF THE PENSION LIABILITY
REPORTED DURING THE LAST BUDGET WORKSHOP.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS AUGUST.
WHAT WE SHARED WITH YOU BACK THEN WHAT WE AFFECTIONATELY
CALLED A MOODY'S SCORECARD.
AND THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON HERE.
BUT YOU WILL REMEMBER, I'M SURE, FROM LAST YEAR.
THAT HIGHLIGHTED LIGHT BLUE LINE ACROSS THERE ARE OUR

ADJUSTED NET PENSION LIABILITIES.
I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SUBSTANCE OF THE MOTION AND
WHAT WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT TODAY.
YOU SEE AT THE TOP THERE, IT IS ENTITLED REVENUES TO
LIABILITIES RATIOS FOR TAMPA AND OUR, I THINK, 11 OTHER PEER
CITIES.
ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT IS TAMPA.
YOU CAN SEE WE'RE DOING PRETTY, PRETTY WELL FOR WHEN YOU
COMPARE IT TO OUR PEER CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THAT PARTICULAR ADJUSTED NET PENSION LIABILITY OF 1.15
BILLION, THAT'S IN THOUSANDS, SO THAT IS A BILLION DOLLARS,
AND THEN WE HAVE SOME OTHER LIABILITIES, OTHER
POST-EMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, WHICH WE'LL TALK BRIEFLY.
RIGHT ABOVE THE NET PENSION LIABILITIES IS WHAT TYPICALLY
GETS MOST OF THE ATTENTION AND MOST OF THE DISCUSSION.
AND THAT'S OUR BONA FIDE DEBT.
THAT IS OUR FINANCING.
AND WE'LL GET INTO A LITTLE BIT OF THE SUBTLETIES BETWEEN
THESE PARTICULAR LINE ITEMS IN JUST A MOMENT.
FIRST, A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCLAIMER, FOR LACK OF A BETTER
WORD.
I THINK COUNCIL KNOWS, BUT IF YOU DON'T AND IF THE PUBLIC
DOESN'T KNOW, THE GENERAL EMPLOYEES' PENSION FUND AND THE
FIRE AND POLICE PENSION FUND, WE TYPICALLY CALL GE AND
F & P.

THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE AND INDEPENDENT BOARDS FROM THE
CITY AND THE CITY MANAGEMENT.
CITY MEMBERS, AS YOU SEE, MAY BE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
I'M A MEMBER OF EACH BOARD, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THE CITY DOES
NOT MANAGE THESE PROGRAMS.
WE CONTRIBUTE FUNDING TO THESE PROGRAMS UNDER CERTAIN
CONDITIONS AND UNDERSTANDINGS.
SO I AM NOT HERE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE PENSION BOARDS.
THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE CHAIR OF EACH BOARD.
ANOTHER REASON I WANT TO REITERATE THAT THIS INFORMATION
PRESENTED HERE IS ALL PUBLIC INFORMATION.
IT'S BEEN PUBLISHED.
WE'RE NOT SHARING ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE PENSION
BOARDS HAVE ALREADY SHARED.
I'M A BIT BIASED, BUT I AM VERY, VERY PROUD OF OUR TWO
PENSION BOARDS.
YOU SEE AN AWARD FROM THE PUBLIC PENSION COORDINATING
COUNCIL ON THE LEFT FOR PENSION STANDARDS AND FUNDING AND
ADMINISTRATION, EXCUSE ME, FOR THE GE, THE GENERAL EMPLOYEES
FUND, AND ON THE RIGHT, A RECOGNITION AWARD FOR
ADMINISTRATION FOR THE TAMPA FIRE AND POLICE FUND.
I HAVE BEEN ON THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION FUND BOARD FOR,
GOT TO BE 15 YEARS NOW, AND SIX OR SEVEN YEARS I THINK ON
THE GE PENSION BOARD.
I FIND EACH BOARD TO BE FULL OF VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE, VERY

MOTIVATED INDIVIDUALS.
AND I'M VERY PRIVILEGED TO BE AMONG THEM.
AND THE AWARD YOU SEE HERE, THE PUBLIC PENSION COORDINATING
COUNCIL, REPRESENTS OVER 500 OF THE LARGEST PENSION PROGRAMS
IN THE COUNTRY.
SO THIS REALLY IS THE GOLD STANDARD.
IT'S VERY SIMILAR, WHICH YOU'LL BE HEARING ABOUT NEXT MONTH,
TO THE GOVERNMENT FINANCE OFFICERS AWARD, THAT THE REVENUE
AND FINANCE DEPARTMENT GETS.
SO A LITTLE BIT OF BRAGGING, AND I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT
PARTICULARLY THE AWARD ON THE LEFT.
THAT'S NOT JUST FOR ADMINISTRATION, BUT IT'S ALSO FOR
FUNDING.
SO OUR PENSION FUNDS ARE SOLIDLY FUNDED.
WE'LL GET INTO A LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
YOU SEE OUR AGENDA.
WE'LL DO A QUICK RETIREMENT PROGRAMS OVERVIEW.
THERE IS SOME NOMENCLATURE AND TERMINOLOGY THAT I THINK IS
CONFUSING TO SOMEONE, UNLESS YOU ARE NECK DEEP INTO IT AND
THEN GET INTO EACH PENSION PROGRAM INDIVIDUALLY.
AND HERE IS OUR OVERVIEW.
MADE MORE COMPLICATED BY THE FACT THAT BOTH OF THEM HAVE THE
WORD DEFINED AND BOTH OF THEM HAVE THE WORD PLANS.
ON THE LEFT, YOU HAVE THE DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN.
THOSE ARE BONA FIDE PENSION PROGRAMS.

THEY GUARANTEE TO THE RETIREE A SPECIFIC, AS YOU SEE HERE,
FORMULA, BASED MONTHLY PAYOUT FOR THE REST OF THAT RETIREE'S
LIFE.
THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH THE INVESTMENTS, ET CETERA, ARE ALL
ON THE PROGRAM.
THEY ARE NOT ON THE INDIVIDUAL.
IN CONTRAST, WHAT I'LL SHARE WITH YOU OVER ON THE RIGHT.
THE DEFINED CONTRIBUTION PLANS.
THAT'S AN EMPLOYEE WHO GIVES A DEFINED CONTRIBUTION.
AND ANY NUMBER OF FACTORS COULD DETERMINE JUST HOW MUCH THAT
RETIREE TAKES HOME.
THE RISK IS ON THE EMPLOYEE.
AFFECTIONATELY KNOWN SOMETIMES AS DEFERRED COMPENSATION
PROGRAMS, HERE WE HAVE A 457 PROGRAM, ALSO KNOWN AS 401(K)
PROGRAMS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO YOU'VE GOT A DEFINED BENEFIT, A CERTAIN BENEFIT WHEN YOU
RETIRE ON THE LEFT VERSUS WHAT WE'LL SEE ON THE RIGHT, BASED
ON DECISIONS, BASED ON THE MARKET, AND BASED ON SOMETIMES
THE DISCIPLINE OF THE EMPLOYEE AND WHAT THEY WANT TO SET
ASIDE.
WE'LL BE TALKING TODAY ABOUT THE DEFINED BENEFIT PLANS ON
THE LEFT.
ON THE LEFT, THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION, YOU'LL SEE BOTH OF
THESE ARE SPECIAL ACTS OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
IN ORDER TO CHANGE THESE PLANS, WE HAVE TO GO TO THE

LEGISLATURE.
THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION CONSISTS OF THREE MEMBERS, EACH
FROM FIRE RESCUE AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THEY ARE ELECTED POSITIONS AND THREE MEMBERS APPOINTED BY
THE MAYOR ON ONE OF THOSE.
AND YOU SEE THE SUPPORT STAFF IS COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM
CITY GOVERNMENT.
I WANT TO REITERATE, PLAN MANAGEMENT IS COMPLETELY SEPARATE
FROM CITY GOVERNMENT FOR BOTH OF THESE PLANS.
IT'S JUST ONE PROVIDES IN-HOUSE SUPPORT, ONE UTILIZES
MEMBERS OF THE REVENUE AND FINANCE STAFF.
AND ON THE RIGHT, SEVEN MEMBERS IN THE GE PENSION FUND,
THREE ELECTED BY ACTIVE EMPLOYEES.
THREE APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR, AND THEN THERE'S ME, THE CHIEF
FINANCIAL OFFICER.
AGAIN, I WANT TO REITERATE THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING WITH ALL
OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
SOMETIMES IT'S THANKLESS.
IT'S A LOT OF DETAILED INFORMATION, BUT I APPRECIATE ALL OF
THEIR -- THEIR LEVELS OF KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR MOTIVATION.
WANTED TO PUT THAT IN HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REMIND
OURSELVES OF WHAT THIS IS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT A PENSION HOLIDAY MEANS IN THE CITY OF
TAMPA.
I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT IT'S WHEN A LOCAL GOVERNMENT, YOU SEE

HERE, CONTRIBUTES LESS THAN WHAT THE REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION
IS TO KEEP THAT PENSION PLAN WHERE YOU WANT THAT PENSION
PLAN TO BE.
SO EVERY SINGLE YEAR -- WE'LL GET TO IT IN JUST A MINUTE --
THE CITY, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T MANAGE THESE PLANS, WE HAVE
TO CONTRIBUTE FUNDING TO THESE PLANS.
AND THESE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE IDENTIFIED BY AN ACTUARIAL
ANALYSIS.
AND WE DO IT EVERY SINGLE YEAR AND HAVE DONE IT EVERY SINGLE
YEAR.
THESE ANALYSES ARE REVIEWED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE AT
THE STATE LEVEL.
THERE ARE REASONS OTHER LOCALITIES MAY TAKE PENSION
HOLIDAYS, BUT IT IS GOOD FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT PRACTICE 101
IS TO WEREN'T WHAT YOUR ACTUARIALLY CALCULATED TO CONTRIBUTE
IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR PENSION FUND SOLID.
WE DON'T DO THAT.
ONE OF THE REASONS I BRING THIS UP, YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR
ABOUT OUR FUNDING LEVELS, AND YOU'LL HEAR OFTEN IN THE MEDIA
ABOUT OTHER LOCALITIES, GOVERNMENTAL LOCALITIES AND THEIR
PUBLIC PENSION FUNDS.
AND THEY RUN THE GAMUT FROM, I THINK JACKSONVILLE RIGHT NOW
IS 50%, WHICH IS FAR BELOW IDEAL.
AND YOU HAVE SOME VERY, VERY SOLID OR VERY, VERY OVERLY
SOLID PENSION FUND PROGRAMS OUT THERE IN THE MID TO HIGH

90s.
IT'S VERY, VERY RARE FOR A PUBLIC PENSION FUND TO REACH A
100% FUNDING LEVEL.
GENERALLY, ANYTHING 80% AND ABOVE IS VIEWED AS VERY, VERY
SOLID.
BUT IT VARIES FOR ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS.
JUST TRYING TO PUT THAT INTO CONTEXT.
HERE WE GO TO THE GENERAL EMPLOYEE PENSION PLAN.
THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT HERE IS IN GREEN.
THE CITY-REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION.
THIS IS FROM FISCAL YEAR '25 TO THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR.
YOU SEE AT THE TOP, THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR IS THE CLOSEST
TO THE DESCRIPTION.
I'M USED TO LOOKING AT IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
HEY, THESE ARE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS.
THE TAKEAWAY FROM THIS, I THINK, IS THAT THE CONTRIBUTION
LEVEL STAYED THE SAME.
VIEWED THAT AS A POSITIVE.
IT DID NOT GO UP.
AND IN THE FINE PRINT, IF YOU WILL, BELOW, YOU'LL SEE SOME
OF THE REASONS WHY THIS IS A POSITIVE PICTURE.
ACTUARIAL GAIN, HIGHER THAN ANTICIPATED.
WE ALWAYS LIKE THAT.
INACTIVE MORTALITY EXPERIENCE.

PRETTY SURE THAT JUST MEANS LESS DEATHS.
AND FAVORABLE SALARY INCREASE EXPERIENCE.
SO FROM A FUND PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE KEEPING PACE WITH THE
EXPECTATIONS IN TERMS OF WHAT THE CITY IS REQUIRED TO
CONTRIBUTE.
I WILL ALSO NOTE HERE ABOVE THOSE GREEN HIGHLIGHTS, YOU SEE
MEMBER CONTRIBUTIONS.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT VERY DIFFERENTLY IN THE FIRE AND
POLICE PENSION FUND BECAUSE GENERAL EMPLOYEES, NON-HIGH
HAZARD, NONPUBLIC SAFETY EMPLOYEES DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE
RETIREMENT PLAN.
IT'S ALL CITY.
I'LL HIGHLIGHT THAT WHEN WE GET TO FIRE AND POLICE.
THE FUNDED RATIOS, I'LL START AT THE BOTTOM AND WORK MY WAY
UP TO THE TOP.
THE FUNDED RATIO YOU SEE AS OF OCTOBER 1st, 2024, IS JUST
OVER 80%.
AGAIN, SOLID, AND YOU SEE TO THE RIGHT THERE, AN IMPROVEMENT
OVER OCTOBER 1st, 2023.
BUT IT HAS DECREASED OVER THE YEARS.
AND AS A BOARD MEMBER, I CAN SPEAK MY OPINION.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT GO HIGHER AND THE BOARD IS TAKING
STEPS TO INCREASE THAT FUNDED LEVEL TO THE BEST OF OUR AND
THEIR ABILITY.
ONE OF THOSE STEPS IS YOU SEE THE ACTUARIAL RATE OF RETURN.

REDUCED OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS FROM 8% TO 7%.
THAT'S A PRETTY SUBSTANTIVE DECREASE.
OUR HISTORY AND OUR PROJECTED FUTURE EARNINGS FROM
INVESTMENTS ARE SIMPLY NOT WHERE WE THOUGHT THEY'D BE. SO
WE'RE GOING TO LOWER THAT EXPECTATION, WHICH IS GOING TO
FORCE TO US INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING WE'VE GOT TO PUT
INTO THE FUND, THUS BOLSTERING THAT FUND.
AND THEN THE AMORTIZATION OF ACTUARIAL ACCRUED LIABILITY.
OH, I COULD GO ON AND ON.
I'M JUST JOKING.
I CAN'T GO ON AND ON.
BUT BASICALLY WHAT THAT IS, IS SHORTENING THE TIME FRAME TO
PROVIDE THAT FUNDING.
GIVE YOU A QUICK AND VERY, VERY SIMPLE EXAMPLE.
IF YOU HAVE A HUNDRED DOLLARS AND YOU GOT 20 YEARS TO PAY
THAT HUNDRED DOLLARS, WELL, THAT'S JUST $5 A YEAR, RIGHT?
DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU AMORTIZE THAT
OBLIGATION, WE COULD LOWER CONTRIBUTIONS DRASTICALLY, BUT IT
REALLY WOULDN'T GIVE A REALISTIC PICTURE OF WHAT THE NEEDS
ARE.
IF YOU SHORTENED THAT TIME PERIOD FROM 20 YEARS TO 10 YEARS,
WELL, THEN I'VE GOT TO PROVIDE MORE MONEY EACH OF THE TEN
YEARS.
THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD IS DOING IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE.
AGAIN, AN EFFORT AT INCREASING THAT FUNDING LEVEL, STILL

SOLID, BUT WE WANT BETTER.
AND YOU SEE THE ACTUARIAL CONTRIBUTION PERCENTAGE OF SALARY
HISTORY HERE.
A NOTE IN FISCAL YEAR 2020, THERE WAS A CHANGE IN ACTUARIAL
-- I'VE GOT TO STOP SAYING THAT WORD -- ACTUARIAL
METHODOLOGY, BUT YOU SEE A STEADY CLIMB, DO WE NOT?
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE HAPPY -- I'LL SAY HAPPY.
WE'RE HAPPY THAT THE CONTRIBUTION PERCENTAGE STAYED THE SAME
FOR FISCAL YEAR '26.
AND HERE ARE ONE OF THE VAGARIES ASSOCIATED, OF COURSE, AS
COUNCIL KNOWS, WITH ANY INVESTMENT, BUT HIGHLIGHTED HERE IN
TERMS OF PUBLIC INVESTMENT.
IT LOOKS LIKE AN EKG.
YOU'VE GOT SOME REALLY GOOD YEARS, AND YOU'VE GOT SOME
REALLY BAD YEARS.
I THINK FISCAL YEAR 2022 WAS A BAD YEAR FOR, WELL,
EVERYBODY.
BUT REALLY, REALLY STRONG RETURNS, I THINK, IN THIS
PARTICULAR PICTURE.
YOU SEE IN GREEN THAT ASSUMED RATE OF RETURN ON THE LEFT, A
LITTLE OVER 7.5%, WE HAVE PURPOSEFULLY LOWERED THAT AGAIN,
TRYING TO INHIBIT OUR EXPECTATIONS AND NECESSITATE AN
INCREASE IN FUNDING TO BOLSTER THAT.
AND WHAT THE ACTUARY DOES AND I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT
JUSTICE, TAKES AN INCREDIBLY DETAILED AND MASSIVE AMOUNT OF

DATA AND MAKES LONG, DECADES-LONG TERM PREDICTIONS.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH, COINCIDING WITH
YOU SEE HERE THE OBVIOUS VOLATILITY IN INVESTMENT RETURNS.
THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION PLAN.
A SIMILAR PRINTOUT FROM THE GE PENSION PLAN.
IN OTHER WORDS, AND I'M HIGHLIGHTING WHAT WE THINK ARE VERY,
VERY POSITIVE.
YOU CAN SEE IN GREEN THERE, BOTH THE MEMBER CONTRIBUTION AND
THE CITY CONTRIBUTION AS A PROPORTION WENT DOWN PRETTY GOOD
AMOUNT FROM THE PREVIOUS FISCAL YEAR.
THEY ARE WIDELY KNOWN, AND SOMETIMES "THEY" BEING THIS
PENSION FUND.
SOMETIMES THEY ARE NATIONALLY REFERENCED FOR THEIR
OUTSTANDING INVESTMENT RETURNS.
OUR INVESTMENT MANAGER HAS BEEN CALLED THE ORACLE OF TAMPA.
AND YOU SEE THAT --
9:26:54AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THAT'S NOT YOU, RIGHT?
9:26:56AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT IS NOT ME.
[ LAUGHTER ]
THAT IS NOT ME.
ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE INFERRED THAT IT
WAS ME, BUT IT'S NOT ME BY ANY MEANS, NO, NO.
VERY, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE INDIVIDUAL.
SO THEY ARE WELL KNOWN.
AND YOU ARE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT HERE AND YOU'LL SEE THAT

PLAY OUT IN THE NEXT SLIDE.
THEIR FUNDED RATIO IS INCREASING AND IS ALSO VERY, VERY
STRONG.
88.9 PERCENT.
IT HAS ALSO COME DOWN SOMEWHAT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
AGAIN, THAT FISCAL YEAR 2022 INVESTMENT CYCLE REALLY HAD AN
ADVERSE IMPACT.
BUT THIS IS VERY, VERY SOLID.
I'LL SKIP AHEAD, BUT I'LL GO BACK.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S VERY SOLID IS YOU CAN SEE IN
FISCAL YEAR '23, OVER A 33 PERCENT RETURN ON INVESTMENTS.
THAT IS -- IT'S BEYOND OUTSTANDING.
I CAN'T COME UP WITH AN ADJECTIVE FOR IT.
TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE YEAR IN 2022.
I THINK THAT'S PART OF A BIG CLUB.
BUT THEY HAVE SOME OUTSTANDING RETURNS, AND THIS IS JUST
THROUGH 2019, THEY HAVE SOME OUTSTANDING RETURNS PRIOR TO
THAT.
GO BACK FOR A HISTORY THERE FOR YOU.
YOU CAN SEE THE CONTRIBUTION PERCENTAGE CONTINUED TO
INCREASE FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
BUT WE SAW A NICE DECREASE, AS I MENTIONED, IN FISCAL YEAR
2025 AND ANOTHER NICE DECREASE IN THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR.
AGAIN, THE EKG OF INVESTMENT RETURNS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.
GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY, AGAIN, JUST TO PROVIDE

SOME CONTEXT, I'M GOING TO TRY TO SUM IT UP WITHOUT READING
FROM THE SLIDE.
PRIOR TO 2010, OFF BALANCE SHEET.
OKAY, THAT'S TECHNICAL JARGON FOR NOBODY WAS REALLY PAYING
ATTENTION TO WHAT THE PENSION LIABILITY WAS.
I THINK AS A RESULT, THE EXPERTS WILL TELL YOU -- AND I
AGREE THAT IT WASN'T GIVING THE MOST ACCURATE PICTURE OF AN
ENTITY'S FINANCES.
IF YOU HAVE A LONG-TERM SIGNIFICANT LIABILITY, FIRST OF ALL,
YOU OUGHT TO SURFACE THAT A LITTLE MORE VISIBLY.
AND SECONDLY, YOU OUGHT TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT WHEN YOU'RE
TRYING TO DETERMINE JUST HOW FISCALLY SOUND YOU ARE.
AND YOU SEE THE TIPPING POINT THERE WAS THE GREAT RECESSION
OR THE GREAT FINANCIAL CRISIS.
IT REALLY BROUGHT TO THE SURFACE THE FACT THAT THERE WERE
SOME OUTSTANDING SIGNIFICANT LIABILITIES THAT REALLY NOBODY
WAS LOOKING AT VERY CLOSELY.
AND THEN YOU SEE IN 2011, MOODY'S MADE A CHANGE HERE AND
THEN CONTINUED TO MAKE CHANGE AND THEN THE OTHER TWO MAJOR
CREDIT RATING AGENCIES, S&P AND FITCH, THEY UPDATED THEIR
METHODOLOGIES.
BEFORE I TURN TO THAT SLIDE, SO WHAT YOU'RE GETTING, AND
WHAT CONTINUES TO EVOLVE, IS A BETTER, CLEARER, MORE VISIBLE
PICTURE OF AN AGENCY'S TRUE FINANCIAL PICTURE AND FISCAL
HEALTH.

YOU SEE SOME OF THE -- FROM THE MOODY'S SCORECARD, YOU SEE
SOME OF THESE FACTORS RIGHT HERE.
CONSIDER LONG-TERM LIABILITIES RATIO, WHICH MAKES UP 20% OF
AN OVERALL SCORE.
SO IT IS A PRETTY GOOD CHUNK OF CHANGE, 20%, FOR SOMETHING
THAT USED TO REALLY BE A FOOTNOTE.
INCLUDE AND EVALUATE AN ISSUER'S FINANCIAL PROFILE.
OF COURSE, I THINK IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING, BUT WE PUT IT IN
THERE ANYWAYS, NOT A STAND-ALONE INDICATOR BUT IT IS A
SIGNIFICANT INDICATOR.
HERE IS WHERE YOU REALLY GET A LITTLE WONKISH, DEBT.
DEBT HAS HISTORICALLY, AS YOU SEE THERE, MEANT BONDING,
FINANCING, LINE OF CREDIT, BANK NOTE.
NOW WE'RE SEPARATING TRUE DEBT FROM, AGAIN, A LONG-TERM
LIABILITY.
SOMETHING THAT CAN BE VIEWED AS DEBT BUT ISN'T TECHNICALLY
DEBT.
AND THEN YOU SEE THE LIABILITIES.
AND THAT IS OUR PRESENTATION, COUNCIL.
I HOPE IT WAS INFORMATIVE.
I HOPE IT WASN'T TOO DETAILED AND TOO WONKISH.
WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
9:31:15AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
DO I HAVE TO PAY YOU A ROYALTY FEE IF I
HAVE THAT RECORDING ON WHEN I'M HAVING TROUBLE SLEEPING?
9:31:22AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES, YES AND IT IS SIGNIFICANT.

9:31:26AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA FIRST.
9:31:30AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU FOR THE FINE PRESENTATION.
I SEE MR. SACCO IN THE AUDIENCE.
I WASN'T HERE WHEN THAT HAPPENED, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE
FIRE UNION, POLICE UNION, MAYBE THE FIRE STARTED IT ALL,
MAYOR GRECO WAS FIRST ELECTED THE FIRST TIME AROUND, THERE
WERE INDIVIDUALS THAT -- THEY CAME TO AN AGREEMENT BECAUSE
THEY WERE NOT DOING WELL IN THE FUNDING OF THE PENSIONS.
THEY HIRED SOME FIRM, I FORGET THE NAME OF THE FIRM, BECAUSE
THEY HAVE DONE ONE HELL OF A JOB THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.
AM I CORRECT?
I DON'T KNOW IF I AM BECAUSE I WASN'T HERE.
DO YOU RECALL ANYTHING LIKE THAT, MR. SACCO?
YOU ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH.
9:32:08AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
HE'S LIKE 20 YEARS OLD.
[ LAUGHTER ]
9:32:11AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I SAID HE'S NOT OLD ENOUGH.
BUT I THINK THAT'S HOW THEY STARTED.
I THINK THAT'S STILL THE APPARATUS IS GOING ON NOW.
I THINK THEY HAVE THE PRIVATE INVESTOR THAT DOES IT, AM I
CORRECT?
9:32:22AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YOU ARE CORRECT.
I CAN ADD A LITTLE CONTEXT TO THAT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW IT STARTED, BUT I CAN TELL YOU WE'VE HAD
THE SAME FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY FOR 40 PLUS YEARS.

CALLED BOWEN AND COMPANY.
JAY BOWEN IS THE LEAD ON THAT, HE IS THE SON OF THE FOUNDER
AND YOU CAN LOOK IT UP ANYWHERE.
9:32:40AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THEY HAVE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB IN
HANDLING THAT ACCOUNT.
KUDOS TO ALL THEM WHO WERE HERE.
I WASN'T.
BUT I STILL MEMORIZE WHAT I READ SOMETIME IN THE PAPER A
HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
9:32:53AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHAT IS A PAPER?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON FOLLOWED BY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
9:33:01AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.
A FEW QUESTIONS.
PAGE 4, I THINK IT IS, THE ONE WITH THE CHART, HOW WERE THE
PEER GROUPS SELECTED?
AND ARE THERE ANY FLORIDA CITIES THAT ARE DOING
EXCEPTIONALLY WELL?
THE SCORES I LOOK AT, MIAMI USUALLY DOES WORSE THAN WE DO.
ARE THERE ANY CITIES THAT ARE DOING REALLY, REALLY WELL?
LIKE, FT. LAUDERDALE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CITIES MIGHT BE,
BUT ANY DOING BETTER THAN US?
9:33:31AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WE CAN ANSWER THAT.
WHAT I WOULD ASK IS COULD WE ANSWER THAT QUESTION UNDER THE
DEBT PRESENTATION BECAUSE WE REALLY HAVE OUR DEBT SCORING
AND RATINGS AND THE FACTORS THAT LEAD TO THOSE COMPARISONS

UNDER THAT PRESENTATION.
OF COURSE, I'VE GOT THE PROFESSIONALS HERE THAT CAN SPEAK TO
IT.
IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND PUTTING THAT UNDER THE OTHER ONE.
9:33:52AM >>BILL CARLSON:
ON THAT PAGE 4, IF YOU HAD TO PICK ONE
NUMBER TO SAY THIS IS THE OVERALL MAIN NUMBER THAT PEOPLE
CHOOSE, LIKE YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW THE HEALTH OF THE PENSION
HAS BEEN HIGHER OR LOWER OVER THE YEARS, BUT IF YOU HAD TO
PICK ONE DATA POINT, WHICH ONE WOULD IT BE?
9:34:09AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I WOULD PICK RIGHT BELOW THE QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, TOTAL DEBT LINE, THE LIABILITIES TO REVENUES
PERCENTAGE.
FOLLOWED CLOSELY BY THE MOODY'S VERY, VERY BOTTOM LINE,
MOODY'S ISSUER CREDIT RATING.
OF COURSE, I HAVE PROFESSIONALS HERE THAT ARE MUCH MORE OF
AN EXPERT AND MUCH SMARTER THAN I AM.
BUT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AS WE'LL SHARE WITH YOU IN THE DEBT
PRESENTATION AND SHARED IN THE PAST, THAT ISSUER CREDIT
RATING IS BASICALLY THE CITY'S FICO SCORE.
THAT'S HOW STRONG WE ARE FROM A CREDIT PERSPECTIVE.
AND YOU CAN SEE WE ARE VERY, VERY STRONG.
IT IS THE SECOND HIGHEST YOU CAN GET.
AND WE ARE IN VERY, VERY GOOD COMPANY.
THE LIABILITIES TO REVENUE, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE WERE
DISCUSSING IN THE PENSION PRESENTATION, THAT TAKES YOUR

DEBT, YOUR PENSION LIABILITIES, YOUR OTHER POST-EMPLOYMENT
LIABILITIES, THINGS LIKE RETIREE HEALTH CARE AND OTHER LONG
TERM, AND THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT WE FORESEE THE CITY BEING
ON THE HOOK FOR.
WE THROW IT AGAINST OUR TOTAL REVENUES.
9:35:13AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IS THERE A PLACE WITH MOODY'S OR SOMEWHERE
WHERE THEY WOULD RANK THE NUMBER, LIABILITIES TO REVENUES?
WOULD THEY RANK THAT NUMBER FOR ALL THE CITIES IN FLORIDA?
IS THERE A WAY THAT HAS ONE THROUGH WHATEVER THAT WOULD SHOW
US THAT?
9:35:26AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I DO NOT KNOW.
SOMEONE HERE MAY KNOW.
I'M TOLD, YES, THERE IS.
9:35:31AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE QUESTION ALWAYS COMES UP, WHEN YOU PICK
CITIES, IS THERE ADVERSE SELECTION.
DO WE PICK CITIES THAT MAKE US LOOK PARTICULARLY GOOD OR
BAD?
AND HOW DO YOU COMPARE THAT CATEGORY, LONG-TERM LIABILITY
AND REVENUE, HOW DO YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE FUNDED RATIO?
IS THAT THE SAME THING OR DIFFERENT?
9:35:49AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IT IS SOMEWHAT THE SAME THING.
IF I COULD HAVE THE PRESENTATION BACK UP.
9:35:53AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THAT'S PAGE 14, I THINK.
9:35:57AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YOU SEE THE ADJUSTED NET PENSION
LIABILITIES, THAT IS AN ACTUARIAL CALCULATION.

I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO CROSS-REFERENCE IT WITH
WHAT WE IDENTIFY AT THE CITY.
9:36:08AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CTTV, CAN YOU GO TO PAGE 14, PLEASE?
9:36:14AM >>BILL CARLSON:
PAGE 14 TALKS ABOUT THE FUNDED RATIO.
SEGUE A SECOND, IT SEEMS LIKE IN YOUR PRESENTATION, YOU
ALLUDED TO -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS -- HIGHER IN
SOME YEARS AND LOWER IN OTHERS.
THE POLICE AND FIRE ONE IS LIKE 89%.
THIS ONE IS 80.1.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A CHART FOR EITHER THE LIABILITIES TO
REVENUES JUST FOR TAMPA AND SHOW THAT GOING ALL THE WAY BACK
TO THE GREAT RECESSION?
9:36:41AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
CERTAINLY.
9:36:42AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST A LINE GRAPH SO WE CAN SEE THAT FOR
EACH OF THEM.
AND THEN MAYBE ALSO ADD THE FUNDED RATIO, JUST SO WE COULD
SEE IT.
BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, IF IT IS ABOVE 80, IT'S GOOD.
88.9 WOULD SEEM -- YEAH, ROUND UP, 89 IS A PRETTY GOOD
RATIO.
9:37:02AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
VERY SOLID.
9:37:03AM >>BILL CARLSON:
LIKE, IF YOU GO TO THE CHART, PAGE 21, IT
SHOWS THAT DIP IN 2022.
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT CORRELATES.
DID WE HAVE TO TOP IT UP SIGNIFICANTLY TO MAKE UP FOR THAT?

YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THAT?
THAT LEADS INTO ANOTHER QUESTION.
CAN YOU GET US THAT CHART OR SHOULD I MAKE A MOTION FOR IT?
9:37:26AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I'LL GET IT TO YOU.
9:37:28AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST TAMPA GOING BACK TO, IF YOU WANT TO
MAKE IT BEFORE THE GREAT RECESSION.
SO 2007, GREAT RECESSION, 2009.
MAYBE IF YOU COULD, 2005 OR SOMETHING JUST TO SHOW THOSE TWO
LINES.
LIABILITIES, REVENUES AND FUNDED RATIO.
ON PAGE 21, YOU TALKED ABOUT, WHAT IS IT, 2023, 33%.
I GUESS THERE ARE CERTAIN RISK THRESHOLDS THAT THE FUND
MANAGERS HAVE FOR THESE.
9:37:57AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
9:37:57AM >>BILL CARLSON:
DID WE TAKE A HIGHER RISK LEVEL TO TRY TO
MAKE UP?
IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO GET 33%?
9:38:04AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
GENERALLY HIGHER RISK, HIGHER RETURN.
SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.
I SHOULDN'T SHORT SHRIFT THE RISK.
THERE IS A HIGHER RISK BUT ALSO, AND I THINK HISTORY BEARS
IT OUT, JUST VERY, VERY TALENTED INVESTMENT VEHICLE
DECISIONS.
9:38:19AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I REMEMBER WE'RE SEPARATE FROM THE STATE
SYSTEM.

9:38:22AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
9:38:23AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I REMEMBER BACK DURING, WHAT WAS IT, 2008,
THE LEHMAN CRISIS HIT THE STATE PENSION SYSTEM BADLY.
ALEX WAS THE CFO AND HELPED TURN IT AROUND.
THE STATE BEFORE THAT WAS TAKING KIND OF HUGE, HINDSIGHT,
HUGE RISKS AND THEN -- ON DERIVATIVES AND IT FAILED.
9:38:45AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I BELIEVE ALSO PENSION HOLIDAYS ASSOCIATED
WITH THAT.
YOU'LL SEE IT IN THE MEDIA SOMETIMES.
AGAIN, THEY WON'T CONTRIBUTE NEARLY WHAT THEY SHOULD OR AS
YOU SAID, COUNCILMAN, THEY'LL TAKE, IN HINDSIGHT, TO GREAT A
RISK.
9:38:58AM >>BILL CARLSON:
PAGE 4, IT SEEMS LIKE THE DEBT NUMBER NOW IS
HIGHER THAN IT WAS WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT IT BACK IN OCTOBER
OR WHENEVER WE TALKED ABOUT IT LAST A FEW MONTHS AGO.
HAS THE DEBT FOR THE PENSION GONE UP SINCE WE LAST TALKED
ABOUT THE BUDGET OR HAS IT STAYED STABLE?
9:39:18AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IT'S GONE UP, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
PRETTY STABLE.
NOW, I THINK IT WOULD BE UNUSUAL TO STAY EXACTLY THE SAME,
BUT I THINK IT HAS GONE UP, WHAT I WOULD SAY, WOULDN'T SAY
INSIGNIFICANTLY, BUT TO A VERY MINOR DEGREE.
9:39:40AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IS IT LIKE 30 OR 40 PERCENT OR 5%?
9:39:44AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WE CAN DO A COMPARISONS.
9:39:46AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I REMEMBER A FEW YEARS AGO, IF I REMEMBER

CORRECTLY, JACKSONVILLE HAD TO PASS A SPECIAL TAX TO BE ABLE
TO TOP UP THEIR PENSION.
CAN YOU ASSURE US, MAINLY THE PENSIONERS, THE PEOPLE RELYING
ON THIS, CAN YOU ASSURE US THAT WE'RE FAR AWAY FROM THAT?
OR IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT TO MAKE SURE THAT
DOESN'T HAPPEN?
9:40:06AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
JACKSONVILLE RECEIVED A GREAT DEAL OF MEDIA ATTENTION
ASSOCIATED WITH THEIR PENSION PROGRAMS AND STILL SOMETIMES
RECEIVE SOME ATTENTION.
AGAIN, I THINK THEY ARE AT 50% FUNDED LEVEL.
I CAN SPEAK AS A CITY CFO.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE BOARDS.
AGAIN, I DO NOT ANTICIPATE ANYTHING OF THAT BEING NECESSARY.
9:40:23AM >>BILL CARLSON:
MONTH OR SO AGO, I MENTIONED THAT SOME
PENSIONERS DURING THE HOLIDAYS SAID THEY WERE DISAPPOINTED
THAT THEY DIDN'T GET THEIR CHECKS UNTIL THE 5th OF
JANUARY.
AND IF YOU GET IT AT NIGHT, YOU CAN'T CASH IT UNTIL THE NEXT
DAY, AND PEOPLE RELY ON IT.
WERE YOU ABLE TO CHECK INTO THAT QUESTION ABOUT FLOAT?
ARE WE USING FLOAT?
IF WE DO, WHERE DO WE PUT THE PROCEEDS FOR IT?
9:40:47AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NO.
THANK YOU.

I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR NOT GETTING BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
WE DID LOOK INTO IT.
FIRST OF ALL, WE DO NOT USE A FLOAT FOR THE PENSION FUNDS.
THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE WAS A SYSTEM ERROR ASSOCIATED WITH
THE TIMING OF THE END OF THE MONTH AND A WEEKEND.
9:41:09AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY, THE PENSION GROUP
MIGHT WANT TO SEND OUT A COMMUNICATION JUST SO FOLKS KNOW
AND THEY ARE NOT AFRAID OF THAT HAPPENING.
THE LAST QUESTION, THE REASON WHY I BROUGHT THIS UP IS
BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY
THAT HAVE COME TO ME ANECDOTALLY AND SAID, HEY, YOU NEED TO
PAY ATTENTION TO THE PENSION, MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS
RIGHT.
IT DOESN'T LOOK EXACTLY RIGHT.
IS THERE ANYTHING NOT ON THESE CHARTS THAT WE AND THE PUBLIC
NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE PENSIONS THAT WE NEED TO BE PREPARING
FOR?
ANY OTHER RISKS THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF OR ANY OTHER
CHALLENGES OR PROBLEMS WITH THE SYSTEM THAT WE NEED TO BE
AWARE OF?
9:41:46AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I'LL GIVE MYSELF WIGGLE ROOM HERE.
THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO, BUT THIS IS A VERY, VERY VOLATILE
ENVIRONMENT.
I DON'T NEED TO TELL COUNCIL OR THE PUBLIC THAT.
YOU SAW FISCAL YEAR 2022 INVESTMENT RETURN.

AGAIN, A WORLDWIDE BLACK SWAN EVENT.
THE PROPERTY TAX DISCUSSION THAT'S TAKING PLACE, YOU KNOW,
AT THE LEGISLATURE, THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF VULNERABILITIES
IN THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM RIGHT NOW.
AND I DON'T WANT TO ACT LIKE THERE'S NOT.
BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW AND THE DECISIONS OF THE CITY AND I
THINK IN MY CAPACITY AS A BOARD MEMBER, THE DECISIONS OF THE
PENSION BOARD, NO.
9:42:24AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK FOLLOWED BY COUNCILMAN
MIRANDA FOR FOLLOW-UP.
9:42:28AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I REALLY APPRECIATE.
WE SAT DOWN EARLIER FOR A GOOD ROBUST DISCUSSION ON THIS
PRIOR TO THIS AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT.
I THINK THE PUBLIC ALSO NEEDS TO REMEMBER THAT WE DON'T
REALLY HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THIS.
BUT YET IT IS PART OF OUR -- A PART OF HOW WE ARE JUDGED.
I THINK THAT WAS THE PART, I THINK FOR ME THAT WAS THE MOST
FRIGHTENING, SURPRISING.
I MEAN, GOOD IN OUR CASE THAT WE HAVE GREAT PEOPLE ON THESE
BOARDS.
BUT IF WE DIDN'T, WHAT COULD WE DO ABOUT IT.
AND THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY IS, TO THE CITY IS REALLY THE
MAYOR'S APPOINTEES AND YOURSELF, WHO IS ON THOSE BOARDS.
IT'S A VERY INTERESTING CONUNDRUM TO BE IN.

MUNICIPALITIES, ACCORDING TO THE STATE, ARE LIMITED IN WHAT
KIND OF INVESTMENTS THEY CAN INVEST IN.
ARE PENSIONS HELD TO THOSE SAME STANDARDS?
9:43:31AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
PENSIONS HAVE A WIDER -- THEY HAVE MORE
FLEXIBILITY, I'LL PUT IT TO YOU THAT WAY.
9:43:35AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, WE DON'T REALLY -- I
MEAN, WHAT ARE THESE FOLKS DOING TO PREPARE BECAUSE OF THE
VOLATILITY IN THE MARKET RIGHT NOW AND JUST THE STATE,
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE
THINGS THAT THE PENSION BOARDS ARE LOOKING AT TO KIND OF
PROTECT AND INSULATE THEMSELVES AND THEIR MEMBERS?
9:44:03AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, BUT I WOULD WANT
TO CIRCLE BACK WITH YOU WITH STATEMENTS FROM THE CHAIRS OF
THOSE BOARDS.
9:44:08AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE LOVELY TO GET
SO THE PUBLIC ALSO COULD -- AND, QUITE FRANKLY, OUR STAFF,
SO THEY KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING.
BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT ALL SORTS OF -- I MEAN, I'M CONCERNED
LOOKING AT MY INVESTMENTS AND LOOKING AT THE FAMILY STUFF.
SO, YEAH, IT'S A BIG DEAL.
I THINK EVERYBODY IS CONCERNED.
9:44:35AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
I DON'T WANT TO DOWNPLAY IT.

AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN SPEAKING FOR
THE BOARDS, WHICH I DON'T WANT TO DO.
9:44:42AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
EXACTLY.
9:44:43AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
BUT I CAN ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THE
UNCERTAINTY AND THE VOLATILITY.
I KNOW I SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD, HOW MANY YEARS HAVE I
BEEN COMING UP, IT'S REALLY VOLATILITY RIGHT NOW, WELL, IT'S
REALLY VOLATILITY.
9:44:56AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT'S DEFINITELY.
WE'RE SEEING IT.
AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE PRIOR CONVERSATION AND THIS
CONVERSATION NOW.
IT IS KIND OF DRY, BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.
THANK YOU.
9:45:06AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
9:45:07AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU.
I HAVE MANY THINGS TO DISCUSS.
FIRST OF ALL, AS I LOOK AT THE CHART, THE REVENUE TO
LIABILITY RATIO, TAMPA, SO FORTH, SO ON, ONLY THREE CITIES
LISTED THAT HAVE A BIG A, LITTLE A 1.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY ARE BETTER RATIO, BETTER PREPARED
THAN THE OTHERS?
9:45:27AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IF I CAN HAVE --
9:45:28AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THE RATINGS OF THE BONDING AGENCIES.
9:45:31AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
UNDERSTOOD.

IF I COULD HAVE THE PRESENTATION.
THERE WE GO.
9:45:42AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THAT ONE RIGHT THERE.
9:45:44AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YOU ARE REFERENCING THE VERY BOTTOM LINE.
9:45:46AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
TAMPA, ORLANDO, ARLINGTON, IN THAT AREA.
ARE THOSE THE HIGHEST RATED ONES ON THE SHEET THEN?
9:45:52AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THE HIGHEST RATED ONE ON THE SHEET IS
MINNEAPOLIS, SIR, WITH A TRIPLE-A.
THEY ARE THE ONLY TRIPLE-A.
THAT IS THE HIGHEST YOU CAN ATTAIN.
9:46:00AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THE NEXT THING IS THIS: WHY BOND?
NO CITY GOES OUT AND BORROWS MONEY I WOULD ASSUME IF IT
DOESN'T NEED IT FOR DIFFERENT THINGS.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR NEEDS, IT IS ON THE TIME OF HISTORY,
NOT ON THE TIME WHEN YOU WANT TO BUY SOMETHING.
FOR INSTANCE, THE WATER AND SEWER LINES THAT WE HAD UNDER
THE CITY OF TAMPA, WE WERE SPENDING ANYWHERE FROM 30 TO 40
MILLION JUST REPAIRING THE LINES.
EVERY YEAR.
LIKELY EVERY YEAR MORE COSTLY BECAUSE THE PIPES WERE FROM 80
TO 100 YEARS OLD AND MORE.
WHEN YOU DID ONE PIPE AND DID IT FROM HERE TO MR. CARLSON,
IT WAS FINE.
REPAIRED WITHIN FOUR, FIVE DAYS.
YOU GO FROM HERE TO WHERE I SEE SOME OF MY GOOD FRIENDS

THERE, IT BROKE AGAIN THE NEXT FOLLOWING WEEK.
SO WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING, AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE DID.
AND WE WENT AND DID SOMETHING, ALL THAT I THINK WAS $2
BILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TO GET IT DONE.
THE WHOLE CITY.
IT IS ABOUT 2,000 MILES OF WATER LINES AND SEWER LINES UNDER
THE CITY.
AND WE STARTED THAT PROGRAM SOME YEARS BACK, NOT MANY YEARS
BACK, BUT SOME.
THAT'S GOING TO TAKE LIKE OVER 20 YEARS TO ACCOMPLISH THE
WHOLE THING.
THAT MEANS THAT WE ARE PAYING FOR IT AS WE GO CURRENTLY.
SO THAT'S NOT EVEN REFLECTED IN THIS.
SO THE CITY WENT AND I ASKED THEM MANY YEARS AGO WHEN I
FIRST GOT ELECTED TO START PUTTING $2 A MONTH ON THE WATER
LINE AND SEWER LINE SO WE CAN SAY WHAT CAPITAL MONEY SO WE
CAN START PAYING WITHOUT BONDING ANYTHING.
AND WE DIDN'T DO THAT.
NOW I THINK IT'S UP TO $8 A MONTH AND RIGHTLY SO.
SO WE CAN CONTINUE DOING.
HOWEVER, DUE TO INFLATION AND DUE TO OTHER CAUSE, WE
FORECAST OR I FORECAST OR EVERYBODY SHOULD FORECAST THAT AT
THE END, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BOND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.
BUT YOU CAN BOND OR YOU CAN RAISE THE FEES TO PAY FOR IT AS
YOU GO.

THAT SAVES A LOT OF MONEY, BUT WHEN YOU BOND, WHAT IS THE --
4.4%, IN THE BALLPARK.
9:48:00AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
TYPICALLY 4.5.
9:48:03AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
PEOPLE THAT GOT A LOT OF HAIR, NOT ME, SO
I KNOW THEY ARE RIGHT.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I SEE THAT EVERYBODY IS AFRAID TO
BOND.
I'M NOT AFRAID TO BOND BECAUSE THE INTEREST RATE IS STABLE
FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME IN HISTORY.
SO IF IT IS FOR 30 YEARS, IT'S A 30-YEAR BOND AT 4.4.
DOESN'T GO TO 4.8, 4.9 OR 5.
THE INFLATION RATE, NO, YOU'RE THERE.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE NEVER TALKED ABOUT BUT WILLING
TO DISCUSS THE FEES AND DEBATE WITH ANYBODY THAT TELLS ME
THAT BONDING IS THE WRONG WAY.
IT IS THE BEST WAY, YES, YOU PAY, BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED
AT THE TIME YOU NEED IT NOT WHEN YOU DON'T NEED IT BECAUSE
THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO.
IT'S INCUMBENT TO SAY UNDERSTAND THAT FOR EVERY NEED, THERE
IS A NECESSITY.
FOR INSTANCE, SOME OF US CRITICIZE THE HANNA PROJECT.
I DON'T.
9:48:52AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, CAN WE SAVE THIS FOR
ITEM NUMBER 3?
9:48:55AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.

NO WONDER YOU AND I ARE BALD.
9:48:59AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WERE REFERRING TO
ME.
I STILL HAVE SOME HAIR.
9:49:06AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'LL LEAVE IT FOR NOW.
9:49:07AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
9:49:08AM >>BILL CARLSON:
ONE LAST QUESTION.
THE ROLE OF THE CITY IN THIS IS THAT IF -- I MENTIONED THE
JACKSONVILLE EXAMPLE.
SO AT SOME POINT, IF THERE IS A DEFICIT, THE CITY HAS TO
STEP IN AND PAY.
WHAT IS THE TRIGGER? WHAT IS THE CITY'S POLICY WHEN WE STEP
IN?
IS IT MEASURED BY THE LIABILITIES TO REVENUES RATIO, THE
FUNDED RATIO, OR CAN WE GO TO SLIDE 21?
SLIDE 21 JUST SHOWS THE MARKET.
IT DOESN'T SHOW -- IN A YEAR LIKE 2022, PRESUMABLY WE WOULD
HAVE HAD THE TOP UP, BUT THEN MADE IT UP THE NEXT YEAR.
MAYBE USED DEBT TO GO TEMPORARILY.
WHAT IS THE MEASURE THAT THE CITY USES TO SAY, OKAY, NOW WE
NEED TO TOP UP AND FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH IT IS.
SECOND FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE WE FAR AWAY FROM THAT POINT
OR IS IT POSSIBLE -- WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT
YEAR OR TWO FOR US TO HIT THAT POINT?
9:50:09AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I'LL START WITH WHAT THE CITY DOES.

THE CITY CONTRIBUTES EVERY YEAR WHATEVER THE ACTUARIAL
CALCULATION IS.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS YOU DO AN ACTUARIAL CALCULATION IS SO
YOU DON'T HAVE TO RESPOND EVERY SINGLE YEAR TO THAT BLUE
LINE.
IT SMOOTHS IT OUT OVER DECADES AND DECADES.
AGAIN, WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, COUNCILWOMAN,
THEORETICALLY, THE CITY WILL BE AROUND FOREVER.
DEBT ENDS.
PENSION LIABILITY, THEORETICALLY NEVER GOING TO END.
THE CITY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE AROUND.
EVERY YEAR YOU GET AN ACTUARIAL CALCULATION OF WHAT THE
REQUIREMENT -- IN FACT, LET ME GO BACK REAL QUICK.
CAN YOU SEE THAT?
THE CITY CONTRIBUTION THERE, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR THE FIRE AND
POLICE PENSION FUND, $36.4 MILLION.
THAT'S WHAT THE ACTUARIAL CALCULATION IS TO FUND ALL OF THE
LIABILITIES IN THAT PARTICULAR YEAR, AND THAT'S WHAT WE
CONTRIBUTE.
AND HAVE.
SO IT'S ALL BASED ON THE ACTUARIAL CALCULATION WHICH
THEORETICALLY -- AND I THINK MY OPINION THIS IS GENERALLY
TRUE, THEY ARE TAKING ANY NUMBER OF VARIABLES OVER YEARS AND
YEARS AND YEARS, IN AN EFFORT AT SMOOTHING THAT VOLATILITY.
9:51:21AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IS IT POSSIBLE WHEN YOU DO THAT CHART FROM

2005, CAN YOU ADD THIS TO IT AS WELL?
9:51:28AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THE CONTRIBUTION PERCENTAGE.
9:51:30AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE CONTRIBUTION AND THE PERCENTAGE.
9:51:31AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES, SIR.
9:51:32AM >>BILL CARLSON:
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE THAT.
WHO DOES THE ACTUARIAL TABLE?
IS THAT THE -- IS THAT AN OUTSIDE THIRD PARTY?
IT IS NOT THE ASSET MANAGERS.
9:51:44AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NO, SIR.
9:51:46AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MR. CFO, AT AN 8th GRADE LEVEL, CAN YOU
EXPLAIN WHY WE ONLY FUNDED 80%?
9:51:52AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I WILL DO MY BEST.
IN FACT, MAYBE I'LL USE AN EXAMPLE.
I'M SAVING FOR MY DAUGHTER'S COLLEGE EDUCATION.
I'M MAKING PROJECTIONS AS TO WHAT THAT COST WILL BE OVER
TIME.
I'M CONTRIBUTING.
AND IF EVERYTHING TURNS OUT EXACTLY AS I PROJECTED, I'M
RIGHT ON POINT, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
VERY RARE IF EVERYTHING, IF YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS AND WHAT
HAPPENS TURNS OUT EXACTLY LIKE WHAT THE ACTUARY HAS
CALCULATED BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PRICE INCREASES.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.
PRICE INCREASES, RIGHT?
YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO PLAN FOR THOSE BUT YOU DON'T KNOW

WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE.
YOU ARE GOING TO DO BETTER ON YOUR INVESTMENTS THAN YOU
THOUGHT OR, AS WE SAW, YOU'RE GOING TO DO WORSE ON YOUR
INVESTMENTS.
IT IS THE BEST PROJECTION YOU CAN MAKE GIVEN THE KNOWLEDGE
YOU HAVE AT THE TIME.
AND RARELY, AS I SHARED WITH YOU, RARELY DO YOU GET TO THAT
100% LEVEL.
YOU'VE ALSO GOT, AND, AGAIN, THE CITY IS VERY FORTUNATE, BUT
YOU ALSO HAVE POLITICAL DECISIONS LIKE PENSION HOLIDAYS
WHERE THE POLITICAL BODY DECIDES THERE IS SOMETHING OF A
HIGHER PRIORITY THAN CONTRIBUTING TO THE PENSION FUND, AND
THEY'LL TAKE THAT YEAR OFF.
THEY'LL TAKE TWO YEARS OFF, ET CETERA.
SO THERE'S REALLY GOOD PLANNING, BUT LIFE HAPPENS.
I HOPE THAT WAS SOMEWHAT CLEAR.
9:53:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CLEAR, BUT I STILL DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND
THAT.
IS 80% THE INDUSTRY STANDARD?
IS THAT WHAT YOU FUND --
9:53:29AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
SOLID AVERAGE.
SOLID AVERAGE.
9:53:31AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
SO AVERAGE.
WOULD IT BE MORE IDEAL TO BE FUNDING THESE THINGS AT A
HIGHER LEVEL BUT WE MAKE POLITICAL DECISIONS TO FUND OTHER

THINGS INSTEAD OF THE PENSIONS?
9:53:39AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WE MAKE A COUPLE OF DECISIONS.
AGAIN, AS ALL PART OF THAT SMOOTHING.
OVER TIME, FOR INSTANCE, YOU SAW ON THAT CHART, THERE WAS AN
ASSUMED RATE OF RETURN.
SO WE LOOK FORWARD AND WE SAY WE'RE GOING TO GET -- MAKING
THIS UP NOW, FOR EXAMPLE -- GET 8%.
YOU SAW THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION FUND IS 8.5%.
THEY ARE ONE OF, IF NOT THE HIGHEST ASSUMED RATE OF RETURN
IN THE STATE BECAUSE OF THEIR FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE.
SO YOU START OUT THINKING YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS MUCH
MONEY BECAUSE YOU ARE AT 7.5%, BUT IT DOESN'T TURN OUT THAT
WAY.
THE ACTUARIAL REPORTS COME IN, AND THIS IS WHAT THE GE
PENSION FUND HAS DONE.
YOU LOWER THAT ASSUMED RATE OF RETURN.
SO YOU START WALKING UP HILL, MAKING IT HARDER ON YOURSELF
AND HOW THAT MANIFESTS ITSELF, IS YOU CONTRIBUTE MORE IN AN
EFFORT OF BUILDING UP THAT FUNDED RATIO.
AND THEN, AS YOU SAW, AND AS I WAS SAYING EARLIER WITH THE
HUNDRED DOLLAR EXAMPLE, YOU AMORTIZE IN A LESSER PERIOD OF
TIME.
YOU DISCOUNT WHAT YOU'LL HAVE TO DO SO YOU HAVE TO INCREASE
THE CONTRIBUTION.
9:54:49AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
FOR POLICE AND FIRE BEING INDEPENDENT, IF

THEIR FUND, FOR LACK, COLLAPSES OR SIGNIFICANTLY UNDER
FUNDS, WE'RE STILL ON THE HOOK TO SUBSIDIZE OR BRING THAT
BACK UP?
9:55:03AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
AGAIN, CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH, THAT'S WHERE THE ACTUARY
COMES IN IN TERMS OF SMOOTHING THAT OUT.
IDEALLY YOU DON'T GET HIT WITH JUST A DRASTIC, UNBELIEVABLE
INCREASE FROM YEAR TO YEAR.
IT'S THAT SMOOTHING THAT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
9:55:17AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
INTERESTING, THE MINNEAPOLIS EXAMPLE,
BEING THE HIGHEST BONDED, ARE THEY FUNDED AT 80% AS WELL?
IS THAT PRETTY MUCH A STANDARD ACROSS MOST OF THE CITY?
9:55:26AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT MINNEAPOLIS IS.
AGAIN, I'M ONLY GOING FROM MEMORY.
I THINK JACKSONVILLE WAS 50.
BUT YOU HAVE OTHER LOCALITIES OUT THERE, MUCH, MUCH STRONGER
THAN THAT.
9:55:37AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS ON THIS PART
OF THE PRESENTATION?
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
9:55:41AM >>LUIS VIERA:
I DID WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, BECAUSE I WAS
REMINDED WHEN WE CONFIRMED DR. CHIEF BERCAW AS CHIEF OF
POLICE, SOMETHING CAME UP ON THE PENSION AND FIRST
RESPONDERS.
I ALWAYS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT'S VERY IMPORTANT

FOR FOLKS TO KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT THE PENSION
SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR FIRST RESPONDERS AND GO, OH, IT
IS THIS LAVISH, 1970 -- BY THE WAY, I'M NOT SAYING ANYBODY
UP HERE BECAUSE IT IS POLITICAL SEASON.
NOT JUST BOASTING TO THE PUBLIC, SOME LAVISH TEAMSTER, 1970
PENSION, BY THE WAY, STILL WISH WE HAD THE LAVISH TEAMSTER
1970 PEGS.
PEOPLE DESERVE THOSE, SO I'M NOT PUTTING THOSE DOWN.
TRUTH, AS WE KNOW, COPS AND FIREFIGHTERS CONTRIBUTE ABOUT
20% OF THEIR PAY, GROSS PAY TO THE PENSION.
ROUGHLY ONE IN FIVE DOLLARS.
BEFORE HEALTH INSURANCE, BEFORE TAXES, BEFORE EVERYTHING
ELSE.
THEY OFTEN RETIRE AT 45, 50, 55, BUT THEY LIVE 10 TO 12
YEARS LESS THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON, COPS AND FIREFIGHTERS
DO.
I ALWAYS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
AGAIN, THERE IS THIS IDEA IN THE PUBLIC, THAT, OH, IF YOU
ARE A COP OR FIREFIGHTER, YOU'LL RETIRE AT 50 AND EVERYTHING
WILL BE SET.
NO, YOU'LL GET YOUR BUTT KICKED FOR 25 YEARS AND THEN LIVE
10 TO 12 YEARS LESS THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON.
AND ONE OUT OF YOUR FIVE GROSS PAY DOLLARS GOES TO YOUR
PENSION.
THAT IS A PENSION THEY WORK LIKE HELL FOR.

WE'VE HAD MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT THAT IN THE PUBLIC.
LIKE TO POINT THAT OUT FOR FOLKS BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S
IMPORTANT TO KNOW.
9:57:12AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
AS RETIRED AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER WITH
SIMILAR SITUATION, ALMOST IDENTICAL TO WHAT YOU DESCRIBED, I
WOULD RECONFIRM THAT IS A FACT WITH POLICE AND FIRE AND AIR
TRAFFICKER CONTROLLERS.
DAMN THE LAWYERS.
THAT CONCLUDES ITEM NUMBER 1.
OUR CLERK MADE ME AWARE WE DID NOT MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE
THE AGENDA.
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
THANK YOU.
PUBLIC COMMENT, ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TO
ITEM NUMBER 1?
STEPHANIE, DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK?
9:58:01AM >> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
NICK STOCCO, PRESIDENT OF THE TAMPA FIREFIGHTERS UNION.
I WILL BE 40 IN FIVE YEARS, SO NOT 20.
I'M ONLY 35.
I'M HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER 1 ON THE PENSION HEALTH.

FIRST, I WANT TO THANK THIS COUNCIL AND THE CITY OF TAMPA AS
THE EMPLOYER OF THE FIREFIGHTERS THAT HELPED ORIGINATE AND
FORM THIS.
TO COUNCIL'S POINT, THERE WAS AN INDIVIDUAL BY THE NAME OF
SAMSON ARTIE WHO SERVED AS UNION PRESIDENT FOR 13 YEARS WHO
PASSED AWAY IN 2021 WHO SERVED A KEY ROLE ON GETTING THIS
PENSION STARTED AS WELL AS LOBBYING FOR IT AT THE STATE
LEVEL.
BETTER SAY ADVOCATING AT THE STATE LEVEL.
HE SERVED AS DISTRICT VICE PRESIDENT AND ALSO THE FIRST
SECRETARY-TREASURER OF THE FLORIDA PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS
WHO WAS OUR STATE ORGANIZATION I THINK IN 1943 OR SO IS WHEN
THEY WERE FORMED.
IN THE '60s, I BELIEVE '60s, WHEN FOUNDED AND LIFTED OFF
ITS ARMS, TOOK A LOT OF LEGWORK TO GET THAT GOING.
SOME OF COUNCIL'S POINT, WE ARE UNIQUE THAN MANY OF THE 175
OR MUNICIPAL PLANS AS YOU'LL SEE AS A SPECIAL ACT OF THE
LEGISLATURE.
2025, DID GO THROUGH SOME PENSION REFORMS, PENSION CHANGES,
AND THIS COUNCIL APPROVED IT BEFORE IT WENT TO THE LOCAL
DELEGATION AT THE STATE.
AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE CITY, THE EMPLOYER, AND THIS
COUNCIL FOR BEING A PART OF THE PENSION THAT WE ARE ABLE TO
HAVE TODAY.
TO SOME OF THE ANALYTICS, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL

THE DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES MENTIONED ON THAT GRAPH CARRY
DIFFERENT GROUPS WITHIN THEMSELVES.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE ARE A 175 PLAN.
POLICE IS 185 PLAN.
AND THOSE PLANS ARE MARRIED TOGETHER UNDER ONE.
THE MIAMI FIREFIGHTERS, THEY ARE ON THEIR OWN 175 PLAN.
ST. PETE, I BELIEVE THEY MIGHT BE ON THEIR OWN.
UNSURE.
LAKELAND IS ANOTHER.
THE 175 PLANS UNDER STATUTE CARRY DIFFERENT REGULATIONS THAN
STATE FRS SPECIAL RISK.
SO WE ARE HELD TO DIFFERENT STANDARDS THAN THE STATE FRS,
AND WE DO CARRY THAT THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE BODY.
SO THE VARIANCES AND THE PROJECTIONS AND THE PROFESSIONALS
THAT KNOW IT, WHO WILL SPEAK ON THE RETIREMENT PIECE, IT
VARIES.
IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO RETIRE SOONER OR RETIRE LATER OR PASS
AWAY SOONER OR PASS AWAY LATER, THOSE ALL HAVE AN EFFECT ON
THOSE NUMBERS AND THOSE FIGURES, SO ANOTHER THING TO
CONSIDER IS THAT WHEN THE ACTUARIES DO THESE STUDIES, THOSE
ARE ALL CALCULATIONS INTO THOSE PROFESSIONALS.
I WILL SAY, AGAIN, THANK YOU TO THE CITY WHO DOES EMPLOY US
AND PAY US.
FIREFIGHTERS DO PAY 15.5% OF THEIR HOURLY WAGE INTO THE
PENSION.

WE PAID AS HIGH AS 18% AND PAID AS LOW AS 3% SINCE 2011.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL LOOK AT THE STATE LEVEL
OF THE FUNDING REQUIREMENTS THAT CHANGED IN 2011 THAT
LESSENED THE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE 175 PLANS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
10:00:54AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.
COME A DAY WHEN YOU ARE MY AGE, YOU'LL APPRECIATE LOOKING 15
YEARS YOUNGER.
NEXT SPEAKER.
10:01:05AM >> GOOD MORNING.
STEPHANIE POYNOR.
I HAVE A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS.
SOMEBODY CAN ANSWER THEM OR NOT.
BUT THEY KIND OF COME TO MY MIND.
AS SOMEBODY WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE KENTUCKY TEACHER
RETIREMENT SYSTEM, YOU WERE ABLE TO BUY OUT.
IF PEOPLE ARE BUYING OUT OF THESE PROGRAMS AT WHAT
PERCENTAGE?
AND IS THERE AN AVERAGE POINT WHERE THEY BUY THEMSELVES OUT
AND TAKE THE CASH VALUE?
ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE RECEIVING PENSIONS ALSO ALLOWED TO TAKE
THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY FROM THEIR SPOUSE?
IN KENTUCKY, WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO TAKE OUR SPOUSE'S SOCIAL
SECURITY AND OUR KENTUCKY TEACHER RETIREMENT AT THE SAME
TIME.

WE HAD TO GIVE UP ONE OR THE OTHER.
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PENSION FUNDS IF A SPOUSE PASSES AWAY?
DOES IT TOTALLY GO AWAY?
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE TOOK MY BUYOUT AND
HUSBAND'S BUYOUT FROM UPS, BECAUSE IF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO
HIM, THEN I WOULD LOSE ALL OF THAT PENSION.
DOES TAMPA CITY COUNCIL NOT HAVE A MEMBER ON THE PENSION
BOARDS?
DO THEY NOT HAVE A NOMINEE?
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK MENTIONED THE MAYOR HAS SOMEBODY ON
THERE, BUT IS THERE NOT SOMEBODY ON THE BOARDS THAT REPORTS
TO CITY COUNCIL AND TALKS TO THEM ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON?
THERE ARE LOTS OF FOLKS HERE IN SUITS.
I'M GLAD TO SEE THE PRESIDENT OF 754 HERE, NICK.
GLAD TO SEE HIM HERE.
BUT I'M CURIOUS, WHERE ARE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO SIT ON THESE
BOARDS?
AND HOW ARE THEY PUSHING OUT?
BECAUSE ALL THESE PEOPLE IN SUITS ARE BEING PAID SOMETHING
TO BE HERE IN ONE WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, BUT HOW DO THE
MEMBERS OF THOSE PENSION BOARDS FEEL ABOUT THIS?
I KNOW IN THE PAST, I'VE BEEN INVITED TO SOME OF THESE
NEGOTIATIONS AND WHATNOT, BUT THEY HAVE ALWAYS ENDED UP ON
THURSDAY MORNINGS WHICH MAKES IT NOT ONLY HARD FOR ME TO GO,
BECAUSE I LIKE TO BE HERE, BUT MAKES IT HARD FOR YOU GUYS TO

GO.
ARE YOU ABLE TO ATTEND THOSE MEETINGS?
THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY COMMENTS.
THANK YOU.
10:03:06AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.
START WITH YOUR NAME.
10:03:09AM >> GOOD MORNING.
MY NAME IS MALIK ABDULLAH.
YOU ASKED IF ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT JUST THE PENSION.
IS THAT WHAT THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT?
10:03:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
NO, THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT.
SO IF YOU HAVE ANY STATEMENT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE.
10:03:25AM >> I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE JACKSON HOUSE.
10:03:26AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THAT IS NOT ON THIS -- IT'S NOT APPLICABLE
TO THIS ITEM.
THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THE PENSION ITEM THAT DENNIS ROGERO.
10:03:36AM >> THAT'S WHAT I ASKED, AND YOU SAID, NO, PUBLIC COMMENT.
10:03:38AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WORKSHOPS ARE ONLY ABOUT THE WORKSHOP
ITEMS FOR THE DAY.
IT'S NOT LIKE A NORMAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
HEARING NO OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS, MR. ROGERO, IT SEEMS LIKE
2 AND 3 ARE TIED TOGETHER.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT TOGETHER? IT APPEARS AS THOUGH 2

AND 3 ARE INTRINSICALLY TIED.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO ONE PRESENTATION?
CAN I GET A MOTION FROM COUNCIL TO HEAR 2 AND 3 TOGETHER?
MOTION FROM VIERA, SECOND FROM MIRANDA.
ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
THANK YOU.
HOW MANY TREES?
10:04:18AM >>BILL CARLSON:
CAN I ASK A PROCEDURAL QUESTION?
10:04:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:04:21AM >>BILL CARLSON:
COULD WE ASK THAT THE CLERK OR SOMEONE LOAD
THESE TO OnBase SO THE PUBLIC -- ANY OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT
ARE BEING PRESENTED TODAY THAT ARE NOT ALREADY IN OnBase?
NOT JUST IN THE RECORD BUT MAKE SURE THEY ARE ON OnBase.
10:04:37AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THAT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY HAPPEN ONCE IT'S
PRESENTED TO COUNCIL.
10:04:45AM >>THE CLERK:
[INAUDIBLE]
10:04:46AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IS THAT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO ASK FOR OR
AUTOMATIC?
10:04:48AM >>THE CLERK:
[INAUDIBLE]
10:04:49AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ANYTHING PRESENTED FOR RECEIVE AND FILE --
10:04:53AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I'VE HEARD COMPLAINTS IN THE PAST, IT'S NOT
-- IF THE DOCUMENTS ARE IN ADVANCE, THEN THE PUBLIC CAN SEE
THEM FOR WHATEVER DOCUMENTS AREN'T IN ADVANCE, THEY ALWAYS

WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE IN OnBase AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE
COMPLAIN THAT THEY ARE NOT.
10:05:07AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
GOT IT.
MR. ROGERO, BEEN A LONG TIME.
START WITH YOUR NAME, PLEASE.
10:05:11AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
DENNIS ROGERO, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
GOOD MORNING AGAIN, COUNCIL.
AS ALWAYS, WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST AND YOUR
TIME ASSOCIATED WITH THIS INFORMATION.
I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME VERY VALUABLE AND DETAILED
INFORMATION FOR YOU IN THIS PRESENTATION.
YOU'RE GOING TO RECOGNIZE THE FORMAT, I THINK, FROM LAST
YEAR.
BUT WE HAVE ALSO ADDED A FEW NEW THINGS THAT WE THINK EXPAND
THE UNDERSTANDING.
IF I CAN HAVE THE PRESENTATION UP, PLEASE, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
THE AGENDA.
PRETTY DETAILED AGENDA.
THIS IS NEW THIS YEAR.
WE'RE GOING TO START OFF WITH AN OVERVIEW OF CONTRACT
ADMINISTRATION BY DIRECTOR MUTTERBACK.
AGAIN, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION DOES
IS TIED, NOT ONLY TO THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, BUT

ALSO TO DEBT FINANCING, WE THOUGHT THIS WOULD ADD SOME VERY,
VERY VALUABLE CONTEXT.
MUNICIPAL DEBT UPDATE FROM FORD AND ASSOCIATES.
I'LL INTRODUCE EVERYBODY WHEN THEY COME UP HERE.
AND A CITY FINANCING OVERVIEW WITH MANY, MANY DIFFERENT
PLAYERS.
I'M ONE OF THEM.
WE'LL DO THE RATINGS AND COMPARISONS, GET A LITTLE MORE
DETAIL BASED ON WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE PENSION
PRESENTATION.
TOTAL CITY FINANCING.
DISCUSS THE CIT RENEWAL, SEPARATE MOTION AND NOW
CONSOLIDATED.
TALK ABOUT THE NON-AD VALOREM FINANCING AND WHAT THAT
ENTAILS.
A NOTE AND SOME INFORMATION ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT WE FEEL
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTIONS ARE, AND THEN WE'LL START DOWN THE
ROAD OF THE STORMWATER, WATER, AND WASTEWATER, SOLID WASTE
FINANCING, EXCUSE ME, AND THEN WRAP IT UP WITH THE OVERALL
QUESTION OF JUST HOW MUCH CAPACITY DOES THE CITY HAVE FOR
FINANCING AND THEN HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION.
AND THE PRESENTERS ARE, OF COURSE, ME, DIRECTOR MUTTERBACK,
YOU ALREADY KNOW.
MOLLY CLARK, WHAT WE CALLED PUBLIC RESOURCES ADVISORY GROUP,
PRAG.

JON FORD, WILL REED FROM FORD & ASSOCIATES AND BOND COUNSEL,
STEVE MILLER.
THEY ARE ALL HERE.
ADJECTIVES ESCAPE ME.
WHAT A FANTASTIC TEAM AND MUCH OF THE SUCCESS THAT I THINK
THE CITY HAS ENJOYED IS DUE TO THAT TEAM.
HE WILL NOT BE PRESENTING BUT I'LL CALL HIM OUT ANYWAY.
DEPUTY CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER MIKE PERRY.
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING FINANCE PROFESSIONAL.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'D DO IT WITHOUT HIM.
AND THESE ARE THE PARTICULAR MOTIONS.
LITTLE ANNUAL PRESENTATION ON THE BONDING CAPACITY, AND THEN
WE'RE GOING TO MERGE THAT.
AGAIN, THEY ARE INTERRELATED.
THE DISCUSSION OF THE CIT RENEWAL BECAUSE THE EMPHASIS THERE
IS HOW CAN WE USE THE CIT RENEWAL TO MITIGATE THE AMOUNT OF
DEBT FINANCING.
UP NEXT, DIRECTOR MUTTERBACK.
10:08:29AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
THANK YOU, SIR.
RICHARD MUTTERBACK, DIRECTOR OF CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION.
GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL.
10:08:35AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
GOOD MORNING.
10:08:36AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE BEEN TO THE
PODIUM.
I JUST REALIZED I HADN'T BEEN HERE SINCE COUNCILWOMAN YOUNG

HAS TAKEN THE CHAIR.
IT'S A GOOD THING.
IT MEANS EVERYTHING IS GOING GOOD.
10:08:48AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
HE'S ONE OF THE BLESSED ONES THAT GOD GAVE
A PRETTY FACE, GAVE US MORE OF.
10:08:53AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
SO, YEAH, AS MR. ROGERO ALLUDED TO,
SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WORKED
REALLY CLOSELY WITH MR. PERRY AND THE BUDGET OFFICE.
THERE IS A LOT OF COORDINATION THAT GOES ON IN OUR CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PLANNING, AND THEN -- NOW AS ALSO IN OUR
DEBT FINANCING PROGRAM.
I PUT TOGETHER A FEW SLIDES TO KIND OF GO OVER, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE TIME HERE, THE TIMELINES THAT GOES INTO
THIS PLANNING.
KIND OF AS AN OVERVIEW, FEW DISCLAIMERS, THESE ARE SOME
TYPICAL TIMELINES, AND WHEN I SAY TYPICAL, IT'S WHAT
PERSONALLY I'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST 22 YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY,
AND WHEN WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT CITY PROJECTS, WHEN WE LOOK
AT OUR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PROJECTS THAT KIND OF THING,
THESE ARE PRETTY TYPICAL TIMES THAT CAN BE EXPECTED.
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF DISCLAIMERS HERE.
EVERY PROJECT IS DIFFERENT.
IF THERE IS FEDERAL FUNDING OR PERMITTING INVOLVED, THAT'S
DRASTICALLY GOING TO AFFECT THIS TIMELINE.
AND THEN -- AND ALSO JUST TO POINT OUT, WHEN I TALK ABOUT

THIS, I'M TALKING ABOUT DESIGN-BUILD PROJECTS THAT ARE, YOU
KNOW, VERTICAL IN NATURE, FACILITIES, BUILDINGS, THAT KIND
OF THING.
IT GETS A LITTLE DIFFERENT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PAVING
AND PIPELINE, THAT KIND OF THING OR HORIZONTAL PROJECTS.
ALSO, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, I'LL GO OVER EACH ONE OF THE
SUBCATEGORIES IN A LITTLE BIT.
PRETTY MUCH FROM THE TIME A DEPARTMENT COMES TO US AND SAYS
THEY HAVE A PROJECT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A NEED, AND THEY
NEEDED A PROJECT, IT'S PRETTY MUCH THREE- TO FOUR-YEAR
PROCESS BEFORE THAT PROJECT IS DONE.
AND EVEN MORE SO, IT'S ABOUT TWO YEARS AT BEST BEFORE WE
EVEN PUT A SHOVEL IN THE GROUND AND ACTUALLY START THAT
PROJECT.
ALSO, ANOTHER THING HERE, THAT PLANNING SECTION --
10:11:10AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CAN YOU HOLD ON ONE SECOND?
ARE YOU RESOLVING THAT ISSUE?
WE CAN'T HEAR WHEN THAT IS HAPPENING BACK THERE.
PERSON THAT'S -- LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'VE GOT IT RESOLVED
BECAUSE I'M GOING TO PAUSE THE CONVERSATION.
WE'RE GOING TO ASSUME THE SITUATION IS RESOLVED.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:11:39AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
OKAY.
I'LL START WITH THIS FIRST SUBCATEGORY OF PLANNING.
NOW, THIS ONE IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ESTIMATE BECAUSE PLANNING

COULD MEAN A NUMBER OF THINGS.
BUT BEFORE WE EVEN -- AGAIN, WHEN SOMEBODY COMES TO US AND
THEY HAVE A NEED AND WE TRY TO WORK WITH THEM TO SEE THE
BEST WAY TO PROCEED WITH THAT PROJECT, WE WANT TO START WITH
PLANNING.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT IS, THE BOTTOM THREE BULLET
POINTS THERE, COST ESTIMATE, BUDGET CONFIRMATION AND THE
PREPARATION OF DESIGN CRITERIA PACKAGE, THOSE ARE A MUST.
WE HAVE TO HAVE THOSE IN PLACE.
THE OTHER THINGS MAY OR MAY NOT NEED LAND.
WE MAY ALREADY HAVE LAND.
AND THEN A VARIETY OF ASSESSMENTS THAT COULD BE DONE OR
COULD BE REQUIRED BASED ON THE NATURE OF THAT PARTICULAR
PROJECT.
LIKE I SAY, AND I KIND OF USE AN ANALOGY IN THE PLANNING
PHASE AS GETTING READY TO GO TO THE GROCERY STORE.
IF YOU SIT DOWN AND PLAN OUT YOUR MEALS FOR THE WEEK AND
WRITE IT OUT AND THEN PUT YOUR LIST, YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND A
LOT LESS MONEY AND TIME IN THAT GROCERY STORE THAN YOU ARE
IF YOU JUST GO AND TRY TO DECIDE ON THE WAY.
SO THE MORE TIME AND EFFORT THAT WE CAN PUT INTO THIS
PLANNING PHASE BEFORE WE EVEN ADVERTISE A PROJECT, IT GIVES
US, A, IT GIVE US A BETTER IDEA OF THE COST WE CAN EXPECT
WITH THE PROJECT AND BETTER IDEA OF THE TIMELINE.
THE NEXT PHASE, THE CCNA SELECTION PROCESS.

CCNA IS THE CONSULTANT'S COMPETITIVE NEGOTIATION ACT.
WE ARE MANDATE OF THAT BY STATUTE 287.55 IN HOW WE PROCURE
THESE DESIGN-BUILD FIRMS, PROJECTS TO GO THROUGH.
AND THAT PROCESS ITSELF TAKES AT BEST SIX MONTHS TO GET
THROUGH.
WE ADVERTISE.
HAS TO BE ADVERTISED AT LEAST 30 DAYS.
THEN WE -- DURING THAT 30 DAYS, WE HAVE A PRESUBMITTAL
CONFERENCE WHERE PEOPLE COME IN AND ASK QUESTIONS.
AND THEN THE CCNA COMMITTEE, WHICH MADE UP OF SEVEN MEMBERS
OF THE CITY, WE GET TOGETHER AND APPROVE A SHORT LIST BASED
OFF OF SCORING.
AND THEN THEY COME AND PRESENT.
MAYOR SELECTS THE FIRM BASED ON RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEN WE
START OUR SCOPE AND FEE NEGOTIATION.
AND THEN AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS, THAT IS THE FIRST
COUNCIL ACTION THAT COMES OUT OF THIS.
SO AT THE END OF THIS, ONCE WE WENT THROUGH THIS ENTIRE
PROCESS, WE'LL BRING AN INITIAL SERVICE AGREEMENT TO COUNCIL
WHICH KIND OF OUTLINES THE COST AND TIMELINE FOR THE DESIGN
PORTION.
AND THAT TIMELINE, THAT ORANGE ON THAT SCREEN, THAT STARTS
WHEN WE ADVERTISE THE PROJECT, AND IT ENDS WHEN WE ISSUE A
NOTICE TO PROCEED FOR THE DESIGN.
NOW WE'LL GET INTO THE NEXT SECTION.

DESIGN AND PERMITTING PORTION.
TYPICAL IS 12 TO 18 MONTHS.
AGAIN, DEPENDING ON PROJECT SPECIFIC.
THIS PORTION, AGAIN, IT INVOLVES A LOT -- THERE IS A LOT
THERE.
SO AS WE GO THROUGH THE DESIGN PROCESS AND WORKING WITH THE
FIRMS DOING THIS, ONCE WE GET TO ABOUT 60% THROUGH, THEN WE
CAN START THE ACTUAL PERMITTING AND, AGAIN, PROJECT
SPECIFIC.
THAT PERMITTING COULD TAKE -- COULD AFFECT THAT TIMELINE
GREATLY.
AND THEN AT THE END OF THIS DESIGN PROCESS, THAT, AGAIN, IS
WHEN COUNCIL WILL SEE A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE COME BEFORE
YOU THAT TELLS US HOW MUCH EXACTLY THE CONSTRUCTION PORTION,
THAT'S WHAT THE GMP IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION
PORTION.
AGAIN, THIS TIMELINE GOES FROM THE DESIGN NOTICE TO PROCEED
THROUGH THE CONSTRUCTION NOTICE TO PROCEED.
AND THAT'S WHAT -- ONCE WE GET INTO THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE,
THIS IS WHAT EVERYBODY SEES.
I PERSONALLY GET PHONE CALLS AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK FROM
PEOPLE SAYING YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT FOR TWO
YEARS AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.
THOSE FIRST THREE SUBCATEGORIES ARE ALL THE NOTHING HAPPEN.
BUT THIS IS THE PORTION, THE GROUND BREAKING IS WHAT

EVERYBODY SEES.
BUILDING THROUGH RIBBON CUTTING AND CLOSING-OUT.
AGAIN, THE WAY THIS CORRELATES WITH MR. PERRY AND HIS GROUP,
THAT HELPS -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THAT HELPS OUR CITY
DEPARTMENTS PLAN OUT THEIR FIVE-YEAR C.I.P.s.
AND THEN IT HELPS WITH THE DEBT PROGRAM.
LET'S JUST SAY IT IS A $20 MILLION PROJECT, DON'T NEED $20
MILLION NOW.
YOU NEED 15 OR 20 PERCENT UP FRONT.
ONCE YOU GET INTO CONSTRUCTION A COUPLE OF YEARS DOWN THE
LINE.
10:16:33AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
PAUSE FOR QUESTIONS.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
10:16:38AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SO I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.
THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY CLEAR AND EASY TO READ WAY TO SEE HOW
THIS PROCESS WORKS.
I'LL PULL THESE SLIDES OUT AND HOLD ON TO THEM BECAUSE I
THINK THEY ARE VALUABLE.
10:16:51AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
I HAVE A ONE-PAGER.
ALL ON ONE PAGE.
10:16:54AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IF YOU COULD SEND THAT TO US, I THINK THAT'S
VERY HELPFUL BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT WE CONSTANTLY KEEP ASKING
ABOUT IS IN THE PLANNING STAGE, WE'RE GIVEN A COST ESTIMATE,
AND THEN TWO YEARS LATER, GIVE OR TAKE, WE'RE GIVEN THE
GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE.

THE INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT IS PART OF THIS, BUT THAT'S
NOT REALLY WHERE PRICE COMES IN, CORRECT?
10:17:23AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
CORRECT.
THE INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT IS COVERING THE DESIGN AND
PERMITTING PORTION, WHICH IS USUALLY ABOUT 10 TO 15 PERCENT
OF WHAT THE ANTICIPATED CONSTRUCTION COST WOULD BE.
10:17:32AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SO I THINK WHAT -- AT LEAST I AM INTERESTED
IN HAVING MAYBE SOME MORE DISCUSSIONS DOESN'T NECESSARILY
HAVE TO BE HERE, BUT REACHING OUT TO US TO TALK TO US ABOUT
THIS GOING FORWARD.
SO THE INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO
COME TO COUNCIL AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ANTICIPATING
IT TO BE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY, EVEN THOUGH -- IT'S SORT OF
LIKE THE HALFWAY POINT TO KEEP US UPDATED.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, MY OFFICE IS PUTTING THEM ON CALENDARS
AND REACHING OUT TO YOU ANYWAY.
AND IT WOULD BE GREAT INSTEAD OF HAVING TO PUT IT ON OUR
CALENDAR AND REACH OUT, IF THAT'S JUST A PART OF THE PROCESS
SO THAT WE STAY ENGAGED, SO WE AREN'T SHOCKED WHEN THE
GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE COMES.
I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT KEEPING COUNCIL
INFORMED ALONG THE WAY PREVENTS THAT STICKER SHOCK AND THE
WORRY AS WE TALK MORE ABOUT THE C.I.P. GOING FORWARD.
JUST -- I DON'T KNOW -- A SUGGESTION.
10:18:39AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON FOLLOWED BY COUNCILMAN

MIRANDA.
10:18:43AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU FOR PRESENTING.
HOW LONG BEEN HERE?
10:18:49AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
THREE YEARS --
10:18:51AM >>BILL CARLSON:
BIG FAN.
I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE.
I USED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS DEPARTMENT ALL THE TIME.
I'M GLAD THAT YOU ARE HERE AND KIND OF CLEANING THINGS UP.
THE PUBLIC'S BIG INTEREST IS WHETHER WE'RE GETTING THE RIGHT
PRICE.
THEY SEE THESE BIG PRICE TAGS ON PROJECTS AND THEY WONDER,
ARE WE GETTING THE RIGHT PRICE?
AND THEN IT COMES OUT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE AN OPEN BIDDING
PROCESS.
PART OF IT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RFQ VERSUS RFP.
I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF ALL THE CCNA PROCESS BECAUSE IT KIND OF
GIVES US A WAY TO GET AROUND.
WE AT CITY COUNCIL PUT NEW RULES ON WORKING WITH YOU.
THE MAYOR ALSO WITH YOUR GUIDANCE PASSED A NEW EXECUTIVE
ORDER.
STILL, THERE ARE TIMES LIKE IN THE HANNA AVENUE PROJECT
WHERE THIS IS BEFORE YOUR TIME.
HANNA AVENUE, ORIGINAL PROJECT LIKE $650,000.
THAT WAS AN RFQ, NOT AN RFP.
EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT NEGOTIATE THE HOURLY RATES, THE

QUESTION IS HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST?
THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN OKAY FOR THE ORIGINAL PROJECT, BUT THEN
ENDED UP BEING 126 MILLION WITHOUT AN ADDITIONAL RFP.
THE CCNA HAS A RULE, AT LEAST THE LAST TIME I LOOKED, YOU
CAN'T GO OVER 4 MILLION WITHOUT GETTING APPROVAL OR GOING
OUT TO BID AGAIN.
CITY ATTORNEY AT THE TIME FOUND A LOOPHOLE AROUND THAT.
BUT WHEN YOU CAME ON BOARD, WE AND THE MAYOR WORKED TOGETHER
TO PUT A RULE IN THAT IT'S IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER IF IT GOES
MORE THAN 50% OVER THE ORIGINAL ESTIMATE THAT IT HAS TO GO
OUT FOR BID.
SO MY QUESTION IS, AGAIN, THE PUBLIC IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT
PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THESE PROJECTS.
THEY ASKED THE QUESTION, WHY IS THE CITY NOT VALUE
ENGINEERING LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES OR PEOPLE DO ON
THEIR HOMES?
CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE SAFEGUARDS YOU PUT IN
PLACE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS?
ARE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS YOU CAN RECOMMEND THAT WE MIGHT
PUT IN PLACE TO ASSURE THE PUBLIC THAT WE'RE GETTING THE
BEST PRICES?
10:20:48AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
THE EXECUTIVE ORDER YOU ARE
REFERENCING NOVEMBER OF 2023.
SEVERAL THINGS IN THERE THAT HIGHLIGHTS SOME CARDINAL
CHANGES THAT WILL REQUIRE US TO STEP BACK AND GO WITH --

STOP THESE PROJECTS AND START BASICALLY EITHER START OVER OR
READVERTISE OR SOME OTHER COMPETITIVE NATURE LIKE THAT.
SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, YOU ALLUDED
TO, IF IT MORE THAN DOUBLES IN PRICE, HUNDRED PERCENT, MORE
THAN DOUBLES IN PLACE FROM WHAT WAS ADVERTISED.
RFQ ADVERTISEMENT, WE SAY THIS COULD BE FIVE TO EIGHT
MILLION.
WELL, IF IT GETS OVER 16 MILLION OR ABOVE, THEN THAT WOULD
TRIGGER THAT.
IF A PROJECT DOESN'T START FOR THREE YEARS, LAYS DORMANT FOR
THREE YEARS AND NOTHING HAPPENS, THEN, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO
READVERTISE.
JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF, EVEN GOING THROUGH THE
CCNA PROCESS, SPECIFICALLY WITH THE DESIGN-BUILD PROJECTS --
AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, I THINK AS OF THIS MORNING, OF THE 347
ACTIVE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS THAT WE HAVE, ONLY
ABOUT 20% OF THOSE ARE DESIGN-BUILD.
BUT, OBVIOUSLY, IT IS THE BIG, HIGH-PROFILE COMPLEX PROJECTS
THAT WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE TIME IN THAT DESIGN-BUILD.
NO, WE'RE WORKING VERY CLOSELY WITH BUDGET AND WITH THE
DEPARTMENTS.
EACH DEPARTMENT HAS THEIR OWN SET OF PROJECT MANAGERS THAT
WE WORK REALLY CLOSELY WITH NOW AS A DEPARTMENT.
ACTUALLY, OUR CITY ARCHITECT THAT WORKS UNDER ME, HE HAS
WEEKLY STANDING MEETINGS WITH THE BUDGET OFFICE, AND THEY

LOOK AT JUST A VARIETY OF TOPICS THERE.
AS OF LATE, IT'S FEMA FUNDING AND THAT KIND OF THING.
BUT, NO, WE'RE WORKING, LIKE I SAY, CLOSELY WITH THE OTHER
DEPARTMENTS.
JUST ALMOST MORE OF AN EDUCATION, HELPING THEM, OWNERS
ADVISOR KIND OF ROLE WITH THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS.
10:22:54AM >>BILL CARLSON:
MY CRITICISM OF SOME OF THE PROJECTS LIKE
THAT, FAIR OAKS AND OTHERS, IS THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE AN
OPEN PAYCHECK.
SPEND WHATEVER YOU WANT.
OPEN SECTOR, PEOPLE HAVE A BUDGET AND HAVE TO WORK TOWARD
IT.
NOT AN OPEN-ENDED AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR EVERYTHING.
SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE, WE GET IN -- INDONESIA, USED TO BE
AN ISLAND, I MEAN, A LAKE, AND YOU WOULD PAY A GUIDE TO TAKE
YOU OUT ON THE BOAT.
WHEN YOU ARE OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BOAT, HE WOULD SAY,
NOW YOU HAVE TO PAY ME DOUBLE TO GET BACK.
THAT'S HOW I FEEL ABOUT SOME OF THE BIDS.
JUST ONE LAST THING, ON THE DESIGN -- I'M NOT A FAN OF
DESIGN-BUILD, IN THE CASE OF HANNA AVENUE, 126 MILLION OR
WHATEVER IT WAS, IF WE HAD DONE THE DESIGN, AND THEN WE PUT
IT OUT FOR BID, IF WE SAVE 10%, WE COULD HAVE TRIPLED OR
QUADRUPLED THE ROAD REPAIR BUDGET THAT YEAR.
THE SAME THING WITH FAIR OAKS.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS MORE OFF LINE.
IF YOU HAVE SUGGESTIONS ON HOW WE CAN PROVIDE EVEN MORE
ASSURANCE TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT HOW WE'RE GETTING THE BEST
DEAL THAT WOULD HELP US, BECAUSE I GET A LOT OF COMPLAINTS
ABOUT IT.
THANK YOU.
10:24:03AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA, FOLLOWED BY VIERA.
10:24:05AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR FINE
PRESENTATION AND DOING THE COSTS AND EVALUATIONS OF
EVERYTHING.
YOU ARE LOOKING AT A PROJECT THAT TAKES EITHER THREE AND A
HALF TO FOUR AND A HALF YEARS FROM START TO FINISH.
THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME WHEN I SEE COLORED NUMBERS,
16 MONTHS, 18 MONTHS, OR WHATEVER.
WHAT HAPPENS IS THIS, YOU BID SOMETHING OUT.
NOT YOUR FAULT, MY FAULT OR ANYBODY'S FAULT HERE.
ALL OF A SUDDEN I REMEMBER WHEN A TWO BY FOUR WAS LESS THAN
TWO DOLLARS.
GUESS WHAT HAPPENED, WENT UP TO 10 DOLLARS.
THAT WAS REAL NICE FOR SOMEBODY BUT WASN'T NICE FOR US.
NOW THEY ARE DOWN TO -- HOW DO YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF WHAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN COSTS?
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BIG WAREHOUSE AND BUY ALL THE MATERIAL
ALL AT ONCE AND STORE IT IN THERE AND SHIP IT OUT LIKE YOU
WERE A SUBCONTRACTOR TO YOURSELF OR YOU HAVE TO SHIP OUT TO

THE SITE WAY BEFORE YOU START WORKING ON IT, AND COVER IT UP
SOMEHOW SO IT DOESN'T DETERIORATE.
AND ALL THOSE HAVE RISKS AND REWARDS.
SO IT'S UP TO INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOURSELF TO MAKE SOME
DECISIONS, I WOULD GUESS, IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO DO
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHICH IS DANGEROUS.
I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S NOT.
YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF THINGS HAPPEN TO IT.
FIRE, THEFT, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN TO IT.
BUT IF YOU DO THAT, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAVE SOME MONEY AND
THE COSTS OF THE PRODUCT.
DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, DURING THE FOUR AND A HALF
YEARS.
BUT IS IT VIABLE?
I DON'T KNOW.
YOU ARE AN EXPERT ON THAT.
I'M NOT.
BUT I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS.
HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT HAS A LONG WAIT OF THREE
YEARS BEFORE REALLY YOU START CONSTRUCTION?
SO THOSE PROBLEMS ARE DIFFICULT TO DO, AND THE COST OF A
GALLON OF MILK DON'T STAY STABLE.
EGGS DON'T STAY STABLE.
PLYWOOD DOESN'T STAY STABLE.
AUTOMOBILE DOESN'T STAY STABLE BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A FLUID

SOCIETY.
THE TARIFFS ARE REALLY WHAT?
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE HELPING YOU OR COSTING YOU MORE,
BUT I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A POLITICAL DECISION FROM
WASHINGTON.
SO WHAT I'M LOOKING AT HERE IS YOU ARE DAMNED IF YOU DON'T
AND REALLY DAMNED IF YOU DO.
THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO.
10:26:21AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
10:26:21AM >>LUIS VIERA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WHAT I WANTED TO SAY FOR MR. MUTTERBACK AND I TOLD YOU THIS
PRIVATELY AND SOME OTHER FOLKS SAID THIS GREAT JOB YOU'VE
DONE SINCE YOU'VE GOTTEN IN.
THE FACT WE HAVEN'T SEEN YOU HERE LATELY SPEAKS TO THE GOOD
WORK YOU'RE DOING.
WHEN WE MET DURING FIRE STATION 24, YOU WERE LIKE, I
INHERITED THIS.
YOU'D GO UP AND TAKE QUESTIONS, AND YOU'RE LIKE, I JUST GOT
HERE.
YOU HANDLED IT COOL, CALM, COLLECTED.
YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD TEMPERAMENT AND YOU ARE DOING A GOOD
JOB.
ON TOP OF THE OTHER THINGS, I JUST WANTED TO SALUTE YOU FOR
THAT, THAT YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB.
WE HAD THE UNFORTUNATE PLEASURE OF MEETING DURING STATION

24, BUT YOU HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB.
THANK YOU, SIR.
10:27:10AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THREE YEARS AGO
SOME OF THE BEST PEOPLE IN THE CITY SHOWED UP AT THE CITY OF
TAMPA.
I THINK WE SHOWED UP ABOUT THE SAME TIME.
MAY HAVE MISSED THAT.
THIS PRESENTATION IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN
STICKING TO MY CRAW BECAUSE AS COUNCILMAN CARLSON SAID, SOME
OF THE PAST PROGRAMS, AND IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT FOR ME TO
QUITE UNDERSTAND WHEN THESE COUNCIL DECISIONS AND WHEN THESE
PROJECTS ARE COMMITTED, WHAT'S GOING TO BE PAY-GO, WHAT WILL
BE BONDED, WHEN THE CRITICAL DECISION POINTS ARE MADE.
WE HAVE A PROJECT RIGHT NOW PENDING FOR POLICE THAT IS IN
THIS PROCESS AND KIND OF THE SAME KIND OF THING.
WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS THAT AT THE CCNA SELECTION OR
FINALIZING THAT PROCESS, THE COUNCIL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
-- WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE FOR COUNCIL?
WHAT IS COUNCIL APPROVING AT THAT POINT?
10:28:05AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
THE INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT.
ONCE WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, ENTIRE PROCESS AND A FIRM IS
SELECTED, THAT FIRM WE THEN GO INTO NEGOTIATIONS.
THE DEPARTMENT WILL GO INTO NEGOTIATIONS ON WHAT THEIR FEE
WILL BE.
THE FEE AND SCOPE NEGOTIATIONS.

SO WHEN WE SELECT A FIRM, WE RANK THE FIRMS ONE, TWO, THREE,
FOUR.
BECAUSE IF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS BREAK DOWN, BY STATUTE, IF
THEY CAN'T COME TO FAIR AND REASONABLE PRICE, WE GO TO THE
SECOND AND THEN THE THIRD.
TRICKLE DOWN TO SECOND AND THIRD.
10:28:44AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
LET'S BACK IT UP.
PRIOR TO THAT YOU GET LAND ACQUISITION BEFORE IT COMES TO
COUNCIL.
I GUESS THIS IS PART OF WHERE THE DISCONNECT IS.
ONCE A PROJECT IS ON THE CIP, THERE ARE ASSUMPTIONS, AT
LEAST PORTIONS OF THE PROJECT ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD
WITHOUT COUNCIL'S EXPLICIT APPROVAL.
BEFORE THE CCNA PROCESS, THERE ARE COSTS, INCLUDING LAND
ACQUISITION THAT HAPPENS BEFORE THAT.
IS THAT JUST BECAUSE ONCE A PROJECT IS ON THE CIP THERE IS
AN IMPLIED CONSENT FROM COUNCIL TO PROCESS THESE THINGS?
AND HOW WAS THAT DECIDED TO BE PAID FOR?
10:29:35AM >> MIKE PERRY, DEPUTY CFO.
THE ANSWER IS THAT ONCE COUNCIL APPROVES THE FIVE-YEAR
C.I.P., THEN THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION WE'RE GOING TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH THOSE PROJECTS.
10:29:44AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE TO BE MORE DILIGENT ABOUT WHAT
MAKES IT ON THE C.I.P.
MY NAIVE SELF FIRST SHOWING UP ON COUNCIL WAS THAT WAS AN

ASPIRATION, THE C.I.P. WAS AN ASPIRATIONAL PLAN, NOT A
DECISION POINT OF APPROVAL FOR EXPENDITURES OF FUNDS AND
ALSO IMPLIED BONDING.
SO I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT EVERYBODY HAS TO REALIZE.
ONCE SOMETHING SHOWS ON THE C.I.P., THE IMPLICATIONS ARE
THAT WE'RE SPENDING MONEY, IMPLIED BONDING.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, YOU WANTED TO RESPOND?
10:30:14AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT DURING
THE BUDGET PROCESS.
THAT'S WHY I'VE BEEN HAMMERING THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW.
10:30:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS, AS AN AIR
TRAFFIC CONTROLLER AND COUNCIL, ONE OF THOSE SURPRISE
MOMENTS.
PLAN, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, NOT NECESSARILY A COMMITMENT
FOR EXPENDITURES.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND.
IF SOMETHING IS LINGERING OUT THERE ON THE C.I.P. AT ANY
MOMENT MONEY COULD BE SPENT ON IT.
IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT?
10:30:42AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
WHEN YOU ADOPT THE C.I.P., IT IS A
FIVE-YEAR PLAN.
YEAR ONE IS IN THE ADOPTED BUDGET.
YEAR TWO, THREE, FOUR, AND FIVE ARE ASPIRATIONAL BECAUSE
THESE PROJECTS TAKE A LONG TIME.
WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WE FINANCE IT.

NOW, WHEN WE APPROVE THE C.I.P. AND WE HAVE A PROJECT,
PROJECT X, X, Y AND Z, WE IDENTIFY THE REVENUE SOURCES FOR
THOSE PROJECTS.
OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IS TO USE PAY-GO.
THE NUMBER TWO IS TO SEE IF WE CAN GET ANY GRANTS.
THE THIRD ALTERNATIVE IS TO USE DEBT FINANCING.
FOR EACH YEAR, OBVIOUSLY FOR THE YEAR ONE, THAT IS ADOPTED
WITHIN THE BUDGET, CAPITAL C.I.P. EXPENDITURES MUST EQUAL
ALL THE AVAILABLE REVENUE.
THAT HOLDS TRUE FOR YEAR TWO OF THE C.I.P., YEAR THREE OF
THE C.I.P., YEAR FOUR OF THE C.I.P. AND YEAR FIVE OF THE
C.I.P.
SO THAT IT'S BALANCED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM
OF THE C.I.P. AND THAT INCLUDES THE FOUR YEARS ASPIRATIONAL.
10:31:49AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ALL THOSE THAT ARE ACCOMMODATED IN EACH
FISCAL YEAR, WE END UP WITH THE REIMBURSABLE RESOLUTIONS TO
ROLL INTO LARGER DEBT ISSUANCES?
10:31:59AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
AGAIN, MR. MILLER WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION, IF YOU CAN HOLD THAT QUESTION FOR
STEVE.
I THINK THAT WILL BE BETTER OFF.
BUT THE REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION IS A TOOL TO ALLOW US TO
START EARLIER, AHEAD OF ISSUING THE DEBT, AND THEN WE WILL
SAVE ON INTEREST COSTS.
10:32:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THOSE COSTS THAT WE ALLOCATED IN THE

FISCAL YEAR COULD POSSIBLY GET ROLLED INTO THE DEBT.
10:32:26AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
ONLY IF YOU APPROVE THE PROJECT AND IT HAS
A DEBT COMPONENT IN IT.
IT WILL ACTUALLY SAY YOU'RE GOING TO RESURFACE PERRY DRIVE.
YOUR FUNDING SOURCES ARE LOCAL OPTION GAS TAXES, CIT
RENEWAL, AND DEBT.
ACTUALLY LIST WITHIN THE C.I.P.
AND ON THE C.I.P. PAGES WHAT THE REVENUE SOURCES WE ARE
USING TO FUND THAT PROJECT.
10:32:57AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ON THE C.I.P., IT IS THEORETICAL.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT LOOKING AT, COULD BE A DOLLAR, TEN
MILLION DOLLARS, WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL THE END OF THE
GROSS MAXIMUM PRICE.
IT'S KIND OF ODD HOW COUNCIL CAN MAKE A FISCALLY PRUDENT
DECISION ABOUT A PROJECT THAT FIVE YEARS FROM NOW COULD BE
AN ASTRONOMICAL PRICE TAG; I.E., SOME OF THE THINGS
COUNCILMAN CARLSON HIT ON A FEW TIMES.
I'M TRYING TO INTELLECTUALLY KIND OF DRAW HOW DO WE MAKE
THOSE FISCAL DECISIONS WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS, INCLUDING AT
LEAST A ROUGH ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE GROSS MAXIMUM PRICE IS
GOING TO BE?
10:33:37AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
RICHARD MENTIONED IT EARLIER.
THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO STICK WITH CONTRACT ADMIN AND THE
DEPARTMENTS TO TRY TO ARRIVE AT A PROJECTED EXPENDITURE COST
GOING ALL THE WAY OUT.

IT VERY WELL MAY BE WE HAVE TO DO BUILDING A, BUT WE ARE NOT
GOING TO START DESIGNING THAT UNTIL YEAR FOUR OF THE C.I.P.
SO YOU WON'T SEE UNLESS WE PUT IT IN THE PROJECT DESCRIPTION
WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION COST IS.
SO THERE IS, AGAIN, IF YOU DO THE C.I.P. RIGHT, YOU SHOULD
BE PLANNING OUT FOUR, FIVE, SIX YEARS AHEAD.
10:34:14AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THERE IS AN INHERENT RISK OF LOSING
WHATEVER WE'VE INVESTED IN, IF WE GET TO THESE CRITICAL
DECISION POINTS.
THE SOUTH HOWARD FLOOD RELIEF PROJECT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
IF ALL OF THE FINANCING DOESN'T WORK OUT AND FAILS, WE'VE
LOST EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE INVESTED IN THUS FAR.
THERE'S NO WAY TO SHORTEN THAT FROM DESIGN CONCEPT TO FINAL
GROSS MAXIMUM PRICE.
10:34:39AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
NO.
BECAUSE IT TAKES WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DESIGN.
ON THESE PROJECTS, YOU WANT TO SPEND THE TIME SO THAT YOU
NOT ONLY GOT TO DO DESIGN, YOU'VE GOT TO DO PERMITTING.
YOU'VE GOT TO DO ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD A
BUILDING, YOU HAVE ENOUGH SUPPORT WITHIN THE GROUND TO DO
THAT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT CONTRACT ADMIN IS WORKING ON
DURING THE DESIGN AND PERMITTING PHASE.
10:35:05AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHAT I HEAR -- SORRY, GO AHEAD.

10:35:07AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
THAT FIRST BITE OF THE APPLE IS THE
INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT THAT COMES THROUGH AT THE END OF
THE CCNA SELECTION.
THAT'S JUST THE FIRST.
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THAT TYPICALLY, YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT,
AND THAT'S TYPICALLY AROUND 10 TO 15 PERCENT OF THE OVERALL
CONSTRUCTION COST.
IF WE BRING A MILLION-DOLLAR INITIAL SERVICES AGREEMENT TO
YOU, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO COME AROUND 10 TO 15
MILLION-DOLLAR.
THAT'S JUST KIND OF A RULE OF THUMB THAT YOU CAN KIND OF
LOOK AT.
ALSO, WHEN WE FIRST ADVERTISE THAT PROCESS, IF WE'VE DONE
OUR GROCERY PLANNING THE WAY WE SHOULD HAVE, WE ALREADY HAVE
A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THAT COST SHOULD BE.
10:35:46AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHEN WE COME AT THE CCNA TIME FRAME, DO
YOU DISCLOSE HOW MUCH HAS BEEN INVESTED AT THAT POINT?
LIKE THE HOWARD EVIDENCE LAB.
I KNOW WE'VE INVESTED MONEY INTO THAT PROCESS FOR LAND
ACQUISITION, DESIGN AND ALL THAT.
IS THAT PRICE POINT HOW MUCH WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR WHEN WE
GET TO THAT CCNA TIMETABLE OR PROCESS?
10:36:18AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE CCNA IS THE
INITIAL --
10:36:22AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MONEY SPENT BEFORE THAT POINT.

IS THAT DISCLOSED IN THAT PROCESS?
HOW MUCH WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR AT THAT POINT?
10:36:28AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
I THINK GENERALLY THE EXPENSES ARE
OPERATING SALARIES ASSOCIATED WITH CONTRACTING ADMIN AND
PREPARING THE DOCUMENTS.
10:36:36AM >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK:
IF THERE IS LAND ACQUISITION AND
TYPICALLY WHEN WE BRING A RESOLUTION, WHEREAS CLAUSE AT THE
BEGINNING OF ANY OTHER RESOLUTIONS THAT'S COME BEFORE THAT
OR ACTIONS LIKE THAT.
10:36:47AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
AGAIN, IF I MAY REMIND YOU, LAND
ACQUISITION IS A CONTRACT.
COUNCIL HAS TO APPROVED ALL THE CONTRACTS.
JUST LIKE YOU DID FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE FLEET FIRE SUPPLY
AND LOGISTICS CENTER, WE BROUGHT FORTH TO YOU A CONTRACT SIX
MONTHS AGO FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE PROPERTY.
I THINK IT WAS BETWEEN FOUR AND A HALF TO FIVE MILLION
DOLLARS.
10:37:09AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I THINK PART OF THIS, LIKE I SAY, I'VE
BEEN HERE THREE YEARS.
A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENED BEFORE, SO DON'T HAVE THE
CONTINUITY OF PROCESS.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK FOLLOWED BY COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:37:19AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT GENERALLY THE BUDGET
FOR -- IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT A SPECIFIC PROJECT, THE
HOWARD ANNEX PROJECT, THAT BUDGET IS IN THE C.I.P.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT IS BEING SPENT FOR THE COMING YEAR BECAUSE
IT'S THERE, WHETHER IT BE ACQUISITION, WHETHER IT BE
PLANNING, IN THEORY, WE KNOW HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT BECAUSE
IT'S IN THAT.
FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL PROJECT, IF IT'S IN THE SECOND YEAR, IT
WILL SHOW WHAT WE SPENT THE FIRST YEAR.
IF YOU GO TO THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT PAGE.
AM I CORRECT?
10:37:59AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
IT WILL SHOW WHAT HAS BEEN SPENT PROJECT TO
DATE, AS OF THE SNAPSHOT DATE THAT WE TOOK THE PICTURE FOR
THE C.I.P.
10:38:05AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OF COURSE.
BUT YOU CAN STILL GO ONTO THE WEBSITE.
THAT'S UPDATED RELATIVELY REGULARLY, IS IT NOT?
10:38:12AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
NO.
ON THE C.I.P. DETAILED SHEET IN THE ONLINE BUDGET BOOK, THAT
IS A ONE-TIME SNAPSHOT.
10:38:19AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WE CAN SIMPLY REQUEST THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW
I'VE WORKED WITH MS. KOPESKY TO GET THOSE UPDATED.
SO THAT IS SOMETHING AVAILABLE TO US.
10:38:27AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
BUT WE PROVIDE THAT TO YOU, TO COUNCIL IN
THE MONTHLY C.I.P. REPORT.
10:38:32AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES, YES.
THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.
10:38:34AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
I'M SORRY.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ONLINE BUDGET BOOK.
10:38:37AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO, NO, NO.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT IF I WERE TO GO TO THE C.I.P. PAGE,
THOSE ARE UPDATED BY MONTH.
SO IF I WENT TO AN INDIVIDUAL PROJECT, I COULD SEE WHERE IT
IS BECAUSE WE DO GET THAT UPDATE.
10:38:49AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
AGAIN, I WANT TO CLARIFY.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO THE BUDGET BOOK.
WE'RE GOING TO THE C.I.P. REPORT.
YOU CAN GO TO THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT AND SEE THE FINANCIAL
STATUS AS OF THE MONTH BEFORE.
10:39:01AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I'M SORRY.
THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.
THOSE MONTHLY REPORTS THAT COME TO US ARE INCREDIBLY
VALUABLE.
I LOVE LOOKING THROUGH THOSE.
10:39:07AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
10:39:09AM >>BILL CARLSON:
TO CHAIR CLENDENIN'S COMMENTS, THE CHALLENGE
WITH THE C.I.P., WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT I'LL BE
SHORT, THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN IT IS PRESENTED TO US IN THE
C.I.P., WE'RE ALWAYS TOLD, OH, YOU HAVE SEVERAL OTHER BITES
AT THE APPLE.
YOU HEAR THOSE COMMENTS ARE STILL BEING USED.
IF WE ACTUALLY HAVE BITES OF THE APPLE THEN WE NEED TO HAVE
THE GUTS TO TURN THINGS DOWN LATER IN THE PROCESS AND WE

SHOULD.
THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE NEED -- AND THESE ARE JUST
COMMENTS, NOT QUESTIONS, SORRY.
WE NEED THOROUGH ALTERNATIVE ANALYSES.
ON HANNA AVENUE, SHOULD HAVE BEEN -- BEFORE MR. MUTTERBACK'S
TIME -- SHOULD HAVE BEEN A THOROUGH ANALYSIS PRESENTED TO
THE PUBLIC ON HOW MUCH RENT WOULD HAVE BEEN.
WE HAD 30-YEAR-OLD LEASES UNDERVALUED AND PEOPLE WERE SPREAD
OUT.
WHAT IF WE LEASED ONE BUILDING OR WHAT IF WE DID A
DESIGN-BUILD WITH THE DEVELOPER?
AIRPORT DID THAT AND THEY ENDED UP BUYING THEIR BUILDING
BACK AND MADE A LOT OF MONEY BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY HAD THE
DEAL SET UP.
BECAUSE THE MARKET WENT UP, HAD AN OPTION TO BUY IT AND SO
THEY HAD MONEY.
THE OTHER THING WOULD BE TO HAVE BEEN TO BUY AN EXISTING
BUILDING.
DURING 2019, THE BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET, TAMPA CITY
CENTER SOLD FOR LESS THAN WE ENDED UP PAYING HANNA AVENUE.
COULD HAVE KEPT EMPLOYEES IN DOWNTOWN, RENTED OUT EXTRA
SPACE AND MADE MONEY ON IT.
I THINK WE HAVE TO DO A THOROUGH ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS.
SAME THING WITH TOILET TO TAP.
TOILET TO TAP HAS BEEN KILLED FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST TEN

YEARS.
THE SECOND TIME COUNCIL, WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL, WE SAID
THERE'S NOT A THOROUGH -- ANALYSIS, I PROPOSED FOUR OPTIONS
AND WHEN ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS CAME BACK, IT WAS ONLY THE
FOUR OPTIONS I HAD PROPOSED.
AND THE MODELS WERE DONE TO BE BIASED TOWARD A CERTAIN
OUTCOME, AND WE WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT AND LITIGATED THAT
IN THE SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH TIMES THAT WE KILLED IT.
BUT THOSE ARE ALTERNATIVE ANALYSES WEREN'T DONE FAIRLY.
IN THE END, AFTER WE KILLED IT FOUR TIMES, INSTEAD OF THE
TWO TO SIX BILLION THAT WE CAME UP WITH THE ALTERNATIVES
ANALYSIS, IT'S 50 MILLION FOR THE SOLUTION.
IT'S CRAZY THAT WE DIDN'T GO THROUGH A THOROUGH -- WE SPENT
A LOT OF ENGINEERING TIME AND OTHERS PUSHING ONE IDEA AND
SHOULD HAVE DONE A THOROUGH ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS.
SAME THING WITH HANNA AVENUE.
THE OTHER THING IS WE HAVE THIS OPEN WALLET IN THIS
ADMINISTRATION.
AND STAFF HAVE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS.
IF THE MAYOR SAYS JUST GET IT DONE, HOW MANY PEOPLE --
IMAGINE YOU ARE BUILDING A HOUSE, AND YOU SAY I'VE GOT
500,000 AND THE BUILDER COMES BACK AND SAID, OH, SORRY, I
CHARGED YOU 2 MILLION.
YOU WOULD SUE THEM, RIGHT?
BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T LET THEM GO WAY OVER BUDGET.

WHY IS IT GOVERNMENT CAN DO THAT?
WHY IS IT THE CITY CAN DO THAT?
IT'S NOT JUST PRICES GOING UP.
PRIVATE SECTOR, PRICES GO UP, YOU HAVE TO VALUE ENGINEER.
YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW OTHER CONSTRAINTS TO CHANGE THE
PROJECT SO IT DOESN'T COST SO MUCH.
IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WITH BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY PUBLIC
COMPANIES, WOULD YOU NEVER HAVE AN OPEN CHECK WHERE YOU SAY,
OH, WE'RE SPENDING 650,000, BUT NOW WE'RE SPENDING 126
MILLION AND FORCE A PUBLIC BOARD TO DO THAT, THE STOCK WOULD
DROP LIKE CRAZY IF WE DID THAT.
SO WE NEED TO -- AND THE SAME THING WITH SOUTH HOWARD, JUST
ESCALATING LIKE CRAZY.
I KNOW YOU ALL ARE TRYING TO STAY WITHIN THAT ADDITIONAL
PERCENTAGE, BUT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CONTROL COSTS.
THE OTHER THING IS TRANSPARENCY AND ACCURACY OF THE NUMBERS
WE'RE GETTING.
WE WERE TOLD A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO GETTING GRANTS FROM THE
STATE, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ON THE SOUTH HOWARD PROJECT AND
THEN AN ATTORNEY SENT US A LETTER SAYING THE STATE AND
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD TURNED US DOWN ON THE GRANTS.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS, BUT HOW CAN WE APPROVE A
PROJECT IF WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM?
ON SOUTH HOWARD, TOLD A YEAR OR SO AGO THAT THEA WAS GIVING
$11 MILLION.

CONTACTED THEA AND HADN'T GONE TO THEIR BOARD YET.
IT WASN'T APPROVED.
THE PUBLIC AND CITY COUNCIL DESERVES TO HAVE ACCURATE AND
TRANSPARENT INFORMATION.
THAT'S COMING FROM MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS AND YOUR CLIENTS,
NOT FROM YOUR DEPARTMENT.
THE OTHER THING, AND THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, CITY COUNCIL
HAS TO HAVE THE GUTS TO TERMINATE A PROJECT AT GMP.
AND THIS HOPEFULLY IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE SOUTH HOWARD
PROJECT BECAUSE IT'S ALL WRONG.
IT'S ALL DESIGNED WRONG.
WE NEED TO GO BACK AND REDESIGN THE PROJECT.
WE NEED FLOOD RELIEF IN THAT AREA, BUT NOT THIS OVERPRICED
PROJECT.
IT'S BEING DONE WITH AN OPEN CHECKBOOK.
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE 7 MILLION OR WHATEVER IS
SPENT AND SAY, OKAY, THAT'S ON COST.
WE EXPERIMENT WITH IT, BUT NO THOROUGH ALTERNATIVES ANALYSIS
DONE.
BEEN THROUGH ALL THE DETAILS.
THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS DONE.
THERE WAS NO BEDDING ON THE DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES.
SO WE'RE GOING TO END UP GETTING STUCK WITH PROBABLY $150
MILLION PROJECT THAT'S NOT EVEN GOING TO WORK WHEN IT IS
DONE.

THAT'S INDICATIVE OF A LOT OF PROJECTS GOING THROUGH THE
ADMINISTRATION.
NOT THE FAULT OF STAFF, THE MAYOR'S OFFICE SAYING, OKAY,
SPEND WHATEVER YOU WANT.
GO AHEAD, WE WANT TO CHECK THE BOX AND SAY WE DID SOMETHING.
CITY COUNCIL HAS AN OBLIGATION TO THE PUBLIC TO SPEND MONEY
WISELY AND TO HAVE AN EFFECTIVE PROJECTS, NOT JUST PROJECTS
WHERE WE CAN CHECK A BOX.
10:44:16AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
HEARING NO OTHER QUESTIONS IN THAT SEGMENT OF THE
PRESENTATION, LET'S TALK ABOUT MUNICIPAL DEBT MARKETS.
MY SKIN IS FILLED WITH GOOSE BUMPS IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS
RIVETTING CONVERSATION.
[ LAUGHTER ]
HE'S TRYING TO BE FUNNY.
I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN BE FUNNY.
10:44:47AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
DENNIS ROGERO, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
SOLE PURPOSE HERE IS TO INTRODUCE THIS ESTEEMED GENTLEMAN,
JON FORD, FROM FORD AND ASSOCIATES TO WALK YOU THROUGH THE
PRESENTATION.
10:44:59AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
FOR THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND, THESE ARE JUST SEGMENTS OF THE
SAME PRESENTATION.
ONCE THE ENTIRE PRESENTATION IS FINISHED, THE PUBLIC WILL
HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PRESENTATION.

SORRY.
START AGAIN.
10:45:13AM >>JON FORD:
MY NAME IS JON FORD.
I REPRESENT FORD & ASSOCIATES.
WE ARE ONE OF THE CITY'S MUNICIPAL ADVISORS.
I'M HERE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FINANCIAL MARKETS.
I'LL START BROADLY AND NARROW DOWN INTO THE MARKET FOR
MUNICIPAL BONDS, WHICH IS A SMALL CORNER OF THE FINANCIAL
UNIVERSE.
LOOKING BACK LAST YEAR, SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE HAVE A
LITTLE MORE INTEREST IN, THE STOCK MARKET.
S&P 500 REPRESENTS ABOUT 80% OF THE MARKET CAPITALIZATION OF
U.S. STOCKS.
THAT IS A REALLY, REALLY GOOD BENCHMARK FOR WHAT THE EQUITY
MARKETS DID LAST YEAR.
AT THE BEGINNING OF 2025, WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
PROJECTIONS FOR ALL THESE THINGS, WALL STREET EXPECTED, JUST
A COLLECTION OF ANALYSTS, BIG FIRMS, WALL STREET PROJECTED
THAT THE STOCK MARKET WAS GOING TO END THE YEAR BETWEEN 6400
AND A LITTLE UNDER 6700.
THE MARKET BEAT THAT ESTIMATE, WHICH IS GREAT.
CLOSED CLOSER TO 6900.
6846.
THAT WAS GREAT.
ABOUT A 14.5% IMPROVEMENT.

IF YOU HAVE STOCKS IN YOUR PORTFOLIO, YOU APPRECIATED THAT.
IT'S WONDERFUL.
LOOKING FORWARD FOR THIS YEAR, WALL STREET IS ESTIMATING
WE'LL END UP AGAIN.
CLIMB TO ANOTHER 7100 TO 8100 POINTS.
THAT'S GREAT.
MORE GOOD RETURNS.
WE LIKE THAT.
SAME THING HAPPENED FOR PROFITABILITY, S&P EPS, MEANS
EARNINGS PER SHARE.
STOCK MARKET NOT ONLY LARGER BUT MORE PROFITABLE.
ALL GOOD THINGS.
THAT'S WHY IT HAS THE GREEN LIGHT ON IT.
GDP IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.
GDP IS GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT.
MEASUREMENT OF ALL VALUES OF GOODS AND IS EVER IS IN AN
ECONOMY DURING A PERIOD OF TIME.
WE EXPECTED REAL GDP GROWTH OF BETWEEN 1.9 AND 2.1 PERCENT.
AS OF -- IT SAYS Q 3, BUT I THOUGHT WE HAD A Q 4 NUMBER IN
HERE.
IT WAS 2.3% YEAR OVER YEAR.
THE ECONOMY GREW A LITTLE BIT MORE IN 2025 THAN WALL STREET
ESTIMATED.
THAT IS A REALLY, REALLY GOOD THING.
FOR 2026, WALL STREET IS ESTIMATING A LITTLE BIT HIGHER

GROWTH.
2.5 TO 2.8 PERCENT.
SO ALL GOOD THINGS.
LET ME PAUSE THERE.
ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR JUST WITH THE NUMBERS THAT WE'VE SEEN?
10:47:24AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
10:47:25AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
SEEING.
I THINK THE BIG CONFUSION IS THAT'S LITERALLY NOT WHAT
PEOPLE ARE SEEING ON THE GROUND.
10:47:35AM >>JON FORD:
AGREED.
10:47:36AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
AND THAT'S THE FEAR.
10:47:38AM >>JON FORD:
YES.
THE MAJORITY OF THAT GROWTH IN GDP IS STRANGELY EQUIVALENT
TO THE AMOUNT OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES THAT HAVE BEEN SPENT
ON THINGS LIKE DATA CENTERS, NVIDIA, MICROSOFT.
YEAH, KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT ECONOMIES RIGHT NOW.
A LOT OF DISCUSSION, K SHAPED ECONOMY.
10:47:56AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
EXACTLY.
THAT IS THE FEAR THAT I'M HEARING FROM THE PUBLIC AND I'M
SEEING IN ALL OF -- IT'S JUST THE FEEL THAT WE'RE HAVING.
THIS IS FASCINATING PROJECTION.
10:48:08AM >>JON FORD:
AGREED.
WE ARE A LITTLE REMOVED IN OUR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES FROM THE
STOCK MARKET.

INFLATION, WHICH I THINK THAT WE'RE ALL MUCH MORE AWARE OF
NOW MAYBE THAN WE WERE FIVE YEARS AGO.
INFLATION ESTIMATED FOR 2025 AT 2.4%.
IT DID COME OUT A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THAT, AS OF NOVEMBER,
DECEMBER, UP 2.7 PERCENT YEAR OVER YEAR.
LITTLE MORE OF A PRICE INCREASE THAN WALL STREET WAS
EXPECTING.
PROJECTIONS THIS YEAR, LOWER BETWEEN 2 AND 2.4 PERCENT.
FEDERAL RESERVE WHICH WE'LL TALK A LITTLE MORE, U.S. CENTRAL
BANK HAS A MANDATE TO TRY TO MAINTAIN REASONABLE PRICE
STABILITY.
THEY DEFINED AS AN INFLATION RATE OF ABOUT 2%.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET BACK DOWN TO THE TARGET RATE OF 2%.
UNEMPLOYMENT, THE 2025 PROJECTIONS FROM WALL STREET, LITTLE
OVER 4 -- 4.2, 4.3 PERCENT.
WE WERE HIGHER THAN THAT.
AS OF NOVEMBER, WE WERE AT 4.6%.
THE OTHER ASPECT OF THE FED'S MANDATE IS TO MAINTAIN SOLID
LABOR MARKETS, MAXIMIZE EMPLOYMENT.
WE'RE WORKING ON BRINGING THAT DOWN AS WELL.
PROJECTIONS FOR THIS YEAR ARE THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAINTAIN A
LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN MAY BE DESIRABLE, 4.4, 4.5%.
SO THOSE ARE THE PROJECTIONS VERSUS THE REALITIES IN THIS
YEAR'S PROJECTIONS.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT INTEREST RATES A LITTLE BIT.

THIS CHART SHOWS A ROUGHLY FIVE-YEAR LOOK BACK, FOUR AND A
HALF YEAR LOOK-BACK OF THE FEDERAL FUNDS RATE.
OVERNIGHT RATE ESTABLISHED BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
TEN-YEAR TREASURY RATE AND AVERAGE 30-YEAR MORTGAGE RATE.
THREE VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.
AFFECT ALL IN DIFFERENT WAY.
FED FUND RATE IS HOW MONETARY POLICY IS BY AND LARGE
ESTABLISHED IN THE UNITED STATES.
OVERNIGHT RATE.
COVID, RATES WERE ON THE FLOOR.
WE HAD THE LOWEST RATES IN RECORDED HISTORY FOLLOWING COVID
AND THE AFTERMATH OF THE EXTRAORDINARY CRISIS.
THAT LASTED INTO 2022.
AT THAT POINT, INFLATION BECAME A HUGE CONCERN.
I THINK WE'RE ALL PRETTY AWARE OF THAT AND WE HAD I THINK 11
SEPARATE INTEREST RATE INCREASES FROM THE FED OVER THE
COURSE OF A YEAR AND A HALF OR SO, AND THAT GOT US ALL THE
WAY UP TO FEDERAL FUNDS RATE OF 5%.
SINCE THEN, WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF CUTS.
THOSE ENDED LAST YEAR, LATE 2025.
WE HAD THREE CUTS THAT BROUGHT US ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN TO
375 WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
LONGER TERM RATES ARE INFLUENCED BY MORE MARKET FORCES BY --
THAN JUST THE FED.
SO YOU'LL SEE THAT THE TREASURY RATE, THE TEN-YEAR TREASURY

RATE, THE LIGHT BLUE LINE, TRACKS SOMEWHAT.
THERE IS A CORRELATION BETWEEN THE FED FUND RATE AND THE
TREASURY RATE, BUT IT FLUCTUATES MUCH MORE.
IT'S MUCH MORE VOLATILE.
AND IT HAS INCREASED, DECREASED.
THE HIGHEST IT GOT TO WAS ABOUT 5% TOWARDS THE END OF 2023,
AND IT'S VACILLATED SINCE THEN.
RIGHT NOW, SOMEWHERE AROUND 410, 420, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THE 30-YEAR TREASURY RATE LOOKS A LOT LIKE THE 10-YEAR
TREASURY RATE.
EXCUSE ME, THE 30-YEAR MORTGAGE RATE, I SHOULD SAY.
MORTGAGE RATES, AS WE ALL REMEMBER, GOT REALLY, REALLY LOW
DURING THE COVID CRISIS.
AND THEN THEY HAVE GOTTEN PRETTY DARN HIGH SINCE THEN.
CAPPED OUT AT ABOUT 8%.
AND COME DOWN NOW, I THINK 6.1, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AVERAGE
30-YEAR RATE RIGHT NOW.
FED FUNDS.
SOME DUMMY, ME, LEFT TWO PAGES.
I'LL USE THE CORRECT ONE.
TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE FED FUNDS RATE.
AGAIN, FEDERAL RESERVE HAS THAT TWO-PART MANDATE.
MAINTAIN MAXIMUM EMPLOYMENT AND MAINTAIN PRICE STABILITY.
THOSE TWO THINGS CAN BE IN OPPOSITION FROM TIME TO TIME.
RECENTLY WE'VE SEEN THEIR MESSAGING SHIFT FROM A FOCUS ON

CONTROLLING INFLATION TO WORRYING ABOUT THE LABOR MARKET A
LITTLE BIT MORE.
WE'VE SEEN SOME SOFTENING IN THE LABOR MARKET.
AT THEIR DECEMBER 2025 MEETING, THEY DID MAKE THE LAST OF
THE 2025 INTEREST RATE CUTS.
THEY LOWERED THE FED FUNDS RATE BY 25 BASIS POINTS DOWN TO
375.
BUT NOTABLY WE HAD THREE DISSENTING VOTES.
TWO OF THE FED GOVERNORS VOTED FOR KEEPING RATES STABLE AND
NOT CUTTING RATES AT ALL.
AND ANOTHER VOTED FOR MAKING A LARGER CUT AND LOWERING IT BY
A FULL 50 BASIS POINTS DOWN TO 3.5.
AT THE JANUARY MEETING, THEY HELD RATES STABLE, BUT WE HAD
TWO DISSENT THIS TIME.
BOTH OF THOSE GOVERNORS FAVORED 25 BASIS POINT REDUCTION.
WE ARE SEEING SOME PUSH AND PULL.
10:52:41AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
COULD YOU TELL US THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT
CONSTITUTE THAT BOARD?
BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT THREE DISSENT, IS THAT THREE OUT
OF 12?
10:52:51AM >>JON FORD:
CAN SOMEBODY REMEMBER HOW MANY MEMBERS VERSUS
VOTING MEMBERS?
I CAN'T REMEMBER.
WE'LL LOOK -- I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY MEMBERS VERSUS
VOTING MEMBERS THEY HAVE.

NOT EVERYONE VOTES.
SEVEN?
10:53:08AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SO THREE IS SUBSTANTIAL.
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
10:53:12AM >>JON FORD:
APOLOGIES FOR THAT.
SHOULD HAVE HAD THE ANSWER READY.
10:53:16AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO WORRIES.
10:53:17AM >>JON FORD:
THE FED RELEASES DATA, MOST RECENT IS FROM
DECEMBER WHERE YOU SORT OF LOOK AT WHERE ALL THE DIFFERENT
GOVERNORS VIEW INTEREST RATES AS GOING OVER THE COURSE OF
THIS YEAR, MEANING THE FED FUNDS RATE.
THAT DATA INDICATES THEY EXPECT ONE MORE RATE CUT THIS YEAR.
WALL STREET DISAGREES WITH THAT.
WALL STREET IS ACTUALLY ANTICIPATING, WE CAN SEE THIS
THROUGH VARIOUS FINANCIAL MARKETS, TWO ADDITIONAL RATE CUTS
THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
THEY THINK THAT INFLATION IS GOING TO BE MORE PROBLEMATIC --
EXCUSE ME, THEY THINK THAT SOFTENING LABOR MARKETS ARE GOING
TO BE MORE PROBLEMATIC, SO THEY THINK THERE WILL BE PRESSURE
TO LOWER RATES MORE AND GENERATE MORE EMPLOYMENT.
THAT IS AN INFLATIONARY MOVE, HOWEVER, SO THERE IS A
PUSH-PULL GOING ON.
KEVIN WARSH IS THE GENTLEMAN NOMINATED BY THE PRESIDENT TO
SUCCEED POWELL AS THE CHAIR OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

WE HAVE THAT COMING UP IN MAY, PRESUMING MR. WARSH IS
CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE.
THEN WE HAVE UNCERTAINTY.
UNCERTAINTY IS, OF COURSE, RISK.
WE TALK ABOUT INFLATION AND EMPLOYMENT MAY REACT DIFFERENTLY
TO SOME OF THESE DECISIONS. THOSE THINGS ARE GOING ON IN
THE MARKET RIGHT NOW.
ZERO INTO HOW THIS ALL RELATES TO MUNICIPAL BONDS, TAX
EXEMPT BONDS, OUR YIELD CURVE, WHICH MEANS AT THE BEGINNING,
SHORT END OF THE YIELD CURVE, SHORT-TERM INTEREST RATES AND
AT THE LONG END OF THE YIELD CURVE, THOSE ARE 30-YEAR
INTEREST RATES.
WE'VE SEEN A TWISTING OF THIS CURVE OVER THE PAST YEAR.
WE'VE SEEN SHORT-TERM RATES DROP SUBSTANTIALLY.
THAT MORE OR LESS REFLECTS THE ACTIONS OF THE FEDERAL
RESERVE AND WE'VE SEEN LONG-TERM RATES RISE SOMEWHAT, BUT
NOT NEARLY AS MUCH AS THE DROP ON THE SHORT END.
THE CURVE IS STEEPER TODAY THAN IT WAS A YEAR AGO.
ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, THIS CHART SHOWS US THE BLUE LINE IS
THE ACTUAL YIELD ON A THEORETICAL 20-YEAR MUNICIPAL BOND.
TRIPLE A RATED LIKE TAMPA'S WATER AND WASTEWATER BONDS.
YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY VACILLATED SOMEWHAT THROUGH THE YEAR.
WE'VE ENDED DOWN IN PROBABLY THE 375 RANGE.
DURING THE YEAR, WE GOT UP FAIRLY HIGH, HOWEVER, WHEN THE
LIBERATION OF THE TARIFFS ANNOUNCED LAST YEAR, FINANCIAL

MARKETS DID EXPERIENCE A PERIOD OF VOLATILITY.
THAT VOLATILITY IS INDICATED BY THE RED LINE THERE.
VOLATILITY HAS DROPPED SUBSTANTIALLY SINCE THEN.
SIMILAR ACTIVITY TO WHAT WE SAW IN THE EQUITY MARKETS.
I THINK I'LL PAUSE THERE.
I THINK THAT IS THE LAST OF MY SECTION.
10:55:56AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
ANY QUESTIONS?
OKAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
10:55:59AM >>JON FORD:
I DID HAVE ONE MORE.
BORED YOU ENOUGH ALREADY, BUT I WILL CONTINUE.
THIS IS, AGAIN, THE 20-YEAR MUNICIPAL BOND YIELD.
THIS GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2016.
AND THE RED LINES ON THIS CHART DEPICT THE DATES ON WHICH
THE CITY PRICED BOND ISSUES OVER THOSE YEARS.
YOU CAN SEE THAT WE WERE NOT UNAFFECTED BY THE VOLATILITY
THAT AFFECTED THE BROADER MARKET, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER
MUNICIPALITY THAT ENTERS THE CAPITAL MARKETS FROM TIME TO
TIME.
10:56:28AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
THIS IS A LONG PRESENTATION, OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE TALKED A
LOT MORE ABOUT THAT.
I'M FASCINATING BY THAT.

10:56:47AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
THIS IS VERY GOOD INFORMATION.
I'M ESPECIALLY GLAD THEY INCLUDED THE LAST SLIDE, YOU SEE
THIS VOLATILITY THAT WE DISCUSSED HAS REAL-WORLD
RAMIFICATIONS FOR THE CITY AND THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY,
ESPECIALLY WHEN WE GO AND SEEK DEBT.
IF I COULD HAVE THE PRESENTATION BACK UP AGAIN, PLEASE.
WE TALKED TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT RATINGS.
WE'LL SHOUT THIS FROM THE MOUNTAINTOP AS OFTEN AS WE CAN.
CONGRATULATIONS, COUNCIL.
ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE SURE I CONGRATULATE COUNCIL, MAYOR,
DEPARTMENTS, OUR PROFESSIONALS.
SEVEN CREDIT RATING UPGRADE SINCE 2019.
YOU SEE THESE NOT ONLY UPGRADED BUT YOU SEE THE RATINGS ARE
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING.
AGAIN, AT THE TOP THERE, THE ISSUER CREDIT RATING, THAT
WOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT OF MY FICO SCORE, FOR INSTANCE.
THE TWO ON THE RIGHT, TRIPLE As, OH, BY THE WAY, WHEN YOU
SEE AAA, WHETHER UPPERCASE OR LOWER CASE, ALL THE SAME.
HIGHEST YOU CAN GET.
TWO ON THE RIGHT HIGHEST.
MOODY'S IS AA 1, WHICH IS THE SECOND HIGHEST YOU CAN GET.
YOU MAY RECALL, COUNCIL, THAT THE LAST PRESENTATION AT THE
CITY OF TAMPA WAS NUMBER 2 NATIONWIDE COMPARED TO OUR PEER
CITIES.

AND I WISH I COULD TELL YOU WE'RE NUMBER ONE.
WE'RE NOT.
WE'RE CLOSE.
STILL NUMBER 2.
THERE HAVE BEEN FLUCTUATIONS OF OTHER CITIES ON THE CHART IN
TERMS OF RANKINGS.
WE REMAINED AT THE NUMBER TWO POSITION.
AGAIN, ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC PLACE TO BE.
VERY FORTUNATE.
YOU SEE THE POSITIVE FEEDBACK ON THE RIGHT FROM THE CREDIT
RATING AGENCIES.
AGAIN, THIS IS MOODY'S, STANDARD & POOR'S AND FITCH.
THE THREE LARGEST AND I WOULD SAY MOST INFLUENTIAL CREDIT
RATING AGENCIES MAYBE IN THE WORLD.
AGAIN, I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF SHARING THIS INFORMATION WITH
YOU, BUT IT'S NOT DENNIS.
IT IS THE ENTIRETY OF THE TEAM.
IT IS THE DEPARTMENTS.
IT'S COUNCIL, ET CETERA.
SO EVERYBODY, CONGRATULATIONS.
THIS IS HOT OFF THE PRESSES, BY THE WAY, THE BEGINNING OF
THIS MONTH.
DEBT PER CAPITA SLIDE IN HERE TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A
LITMUS TEST ON WHERE WE RANK COMPARED TO THE PEER CITIES.
BELOW AVERAGE, HAPPY TO SAY THAT.

MIDDLE OF THE PACK WHEN IT COMES RIGHT DOWN TO IT.
BUT, OF COURSE, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THE PENSION
PRESENTATION AND AS WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS FURTHER, IT'S
MUCH MORE THAN JUST WHAT THE DEBT PER CAPITA IS.
IT'S GOOD TO KNOW HOW WE RANK COMPARED TO THE OTHER
LOCALITIES AND WHAT THE AVERAGE IS.
TOTAL CITY FINANCING.
HERE ARE THE FINANCING CATEGORIES.
WE SHOWED THIS TO COUNCIL BEFORE.
ALWAYS GOOD TO REFRESH, I THINK, AND CONTINUE TO EDUCATE THE
PUBLIC.
YOU'VE GOT YOUR GOVERNMENTAL DEBT.
THREE SUBSETS OF THAT.
NON-AD VALOREM AND YOU SEE THOSE SUBSETS.
GENERAL FUND, TYPICALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GENERAL FUND
REVENUES.
BUT YOU ALSO GOT UTILITY SERVICES TAXES AND THE FORTHCOMING
CIT RENEWAL.
THE COMMUNITY INVESTMENT TAXES, THAT'S NOT THE RENEWAL.
THOSE ARE THE ONES GOING ON RIGHT NOW, AND THE STORMWATER
ASSESSMENT.
SO THAT'S YOUR GOVERNMENTAL DEBT.
SEPARATE AND APART FROM YOU SEE HERE THE ENTERPRISE DEBT.
THOSE AGENCIES THAT ARE RUN LIKE A BUSINESS -- WATER AND
SEWER AND SOLID WASTE.

HERE WE CALL WASTEWATER.
AND YOUR TOTAL OUTSTANDING PRINCIPAL.
JUST UNDER 1.7 BILLION TOTAL.
AND YOU SEE THE SUBSETS RIGHT THERE.
NON-AD VALOREM, 516, A LITTLE OVER 516 MILLION.
ONE NOTE BEFORE I FORGET.
IN THE UPPER LEFT CORNER, YOU'LL SEE THE OVERWHELMING
MAJORITY OF THE SLIDES SAY "AS OF SEPTEMBER 30, 2025."
AGAIN, WE WANT A NICE, CONSISTENT AUDIT TRAIL IN TERMS OF
OUR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS.
SO THIS IS BEST PRACTICE.
THIS IS WHAT WE DO.
THERE WILL BE SOME EXCEPTIONS IN HERE JUST, AGAIN, FOR
FURTHER EDUCATION AND CONTEXT.
BUT I DID WANT TO MAKE SURE I SAY THAT.
YOU CAN SEE THE CIT, LITTLE OVER 19 MILLION.
STORMWATER, A LITTLE OVER 139 MILLION.
THE ENTERPRISE AT NOW OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN PRINCIPAL.
AND THIS IS THE TOTAL CITY PRINCIPAL BY YEAR COMPARED TO OUR
BUDGET.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS WE LIKE THIS CHART, IT SHOWS A COUPLE
OF THINGS THAT I THINK ARE POSITIVE.
OUR PROPORTION OF CITYWIDE DEBT CONTINUES TO GO DOWN WHILE,
OF COURSE, AS CITY COUNCIL KNOWS THE BUDGET CONTINUES TO GO
UP.

THE BUDGET IS PROBABLY GOING TO CONTINUE GOING UP, BUT WHAT
YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT WE LIKE IS A PLATEAUING AFTER WE GET
INTO THE SECOND DECADE OF THE 21st CENTURY.
EVENING OUT 80s, 70s PERCENTAGE AS OPPOSED TO OVER 200%
IN FISCAL YEAR 2000.
YOU SEE THE DOLLAR AMOUNT TOTALS WITHIN THOSE SUBSETS, BUT I
THINK THE TAKEAWAY IS HOW THEY HAVE CROSSED THOSE TWO --
THOSE TWO INDICATORS HAVE CROSSED PATHS AND THAT'S HEADING
MOSTLY IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS.
SPEAKING OF THE COMPLETE PICTURE, OF COURSE, WE CAN'T TALK
ABOUT DEBT IF WE DON'T TALK ABOUT INTEREST.
HERE ARE YOUR PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ANNUAL PAYMENTS AND
TOTAL RIGHT NOW IN THE CITY.
GOVERNMENTAL, ENTERPRISE.
LITTLE OVER 2.8 BILLION.
ABOUT 60% OF THAT IS PRINCIPAL AND ABOUT 40% OF THAT IS
INTEREST.
FOR THE MOST PART, YOU SEE A NICE SMOOTH DEBT PLAN, TAPERING
OFF IN THE OUT-YEARS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE OF
SPIKES THERE.
AS WE TALKED BEFORE, THAT 2029 SPIKE IS THE DEBT THAT WE'RE
HOLDING AND ANTICIPATE CONTINUING WITH THE SOLID WASTE
30-YEAR BOND.
RIGHT NOW, THE PLAN IS TO PAY ALL THAT OFF IN 2029.
WELL, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO TRANSFER IT INTO A 30-YEAR BOND FOR SOLID
WASTE.
BUT THIS IS WHAT THE CHART REPRESENTS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT
IS RIGHT NOW UNTIL WE BRING YOU FOR APPROVAL 30-YEAR BOND
FOR THE SOLID WASTE DEPARTMENT.
YOU GOT A SIMILAR SITUATION GOING ON IN FISCAL YEAR 2027.
SO WHAT YOU WILL SEE ONCE WE TAKE CARE OF THAT 30-YEAR SOLID
WASTE BOND IS A NICE SMOOTH DEBT PICTURE TAPERING OFF IN THE
OUT YEARS.
AND THERE IS A LOT GOING ON HERE, BUT COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED
THIS IN THE PAST.
I FIND IT VERY USEFUL.
I THINK WE FIND IT VERY USEFUL.
THIS IS THE ENTIRETY.
THE TOTAL CITY PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST BOTH CURRENT AND
POTENTIAL.
A LITTLE OVER -- LITTLE UNDER $5.4 BILLION.
AND YOU SEE IT BROKEN DOWN INTO JUST ABOUT EVERY CATEGORY
YOU CAN IMAGINE.
GOVERNMENTAL, ENTERPRISE, WATER, WASTEWATER ENTERPRISE,
SOLID WASTE, INTEREST, BOTH WHAT WE GOT NOW AND WHAT WE GOT
THEN.
FOR THE MOST PART, AGAIN, A NICE SMOOTH PLAN.
NOW, THIS IS LOOKING OUT TO 2060.
SO SIMILARLY TO OUR PENSION DISCUSSION AND SIMILARLY TO THE

PREDICTION OF WALL STREET THAT MR. FORD SHARED WITH YOU,
THINGS WILL CHANGE.
BUT ALL WE CAN DO IS COME UP WITH THE BEST PLAN AT THE TIME
WITH THE BEST INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE.
DON'T WORRY, WE'RE GOING TO BREAK THIS DOWN INTO INDIVIDUAL
COMPONENTS.
WANT TO START HIGH AND WORK OUR WAY DOWN.
11:04:59AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
2060, CHARLIE AND I WILL BE HERE TO HOLD
YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR THOSE NUMBERS.
11:05:05AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I LOOK FORWARD TO IT, SIR.
11:05:11AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
LET'S PAUSE THERE FOR COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
11:05:15AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
TRYING TO WAIT UNTIL A NATURAL BREAK.
IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE SLIDE JUST BEFORE THAT, SO WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING, THIS IS PROJECTED.
SO THIS IS TAKING THAT 27 AND 29 AND FILTERING IT THROUGH
FOR 30 YEARS.
11:05:36AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NOT YET.
11:05:37AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NO SO IT'S NOT.
RIGHT NOW, THIS IS SHOWING THE DEBT THAT WE DO HAVE.
11:05:41AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
EXACTLY.
11:05:42AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I APPRECIATE IT.
11:05:43AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
SORRY IF I WASN'T CLEAR ON THAT.
BECAUSE IT IS A BIT OF AN ABERRATION.
11:05:51AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THE PROBLEM IS TAKING THAT 27 AND 29 DEBT AND
ADDING IT, IT WILL MAKE THE DEBT CONSIDERABLY HIGHER.

11:06:00AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WHEN YOU SPREAD IT OUT OVER 30 YEARS, YOU
WON'T GET THAT HUGE SPIKE, BUT IT WILL MAKE IT HIGHER.
11:06:05AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THAT'S WHAT THE VERY NEXT SLIDE SHOWS.
11:06:07AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
11:06:08AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY.
11:06:10AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING ME CLARIFY THAT.
11:06:12AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CFO, I HAD READ SOMEWHERE THAT A NONPROFIT
ORGANIZATION HAD RATED CITY DEBTS LIKE TOP 100 OR 75 OR 50,
CITIES, AND THAT WE CAME IN AT THE FOURTH LOWEST OF ALL THE
METROPOLITAN CITIES.
ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT FIGURE?
11:06:31AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I AM NOT.
11:06:31AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I READ SOMEWHERE IN SOME NEWS REPORT.
11:06:34AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
FOURTH LOWEST?
11:06:36AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
LOWEST DEBT, LIKE TOP METROPOLITAN CITIES.
11:06:39AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED.
BUT I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.
11:06:43AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IF YOU FIND THAT, COULD YOU FORWARD IT TO ALL
OF US?
I WOULD BE FASCINATED BY THAT.
11:06:49AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
COULD YOU FORWARD IT TO ME ALSO, SIR?
THANK YOU.
11:06:52AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I'VE GOT A BAGEL ON ORDER.

WHEN I TAKE A BREAK TO EAT THE BAGEL, I'LL LOOK FOR IT.
NO OTHER QUESTIONS, WE CAN CONTINUE.
11:07:02AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT IS THE ENTIRETY OF THE PICTURE AT THIS
TIME.
THEN I WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SEGUE INTO THE CIT
RENEWAL THAT WAS ALSO A COUNCIL MOTION.
AND THERE IS THE MOTION RIGHT THERE.
AGAIN, THE EMPHASIS IS NOT ONLY THE CIT RENEWAL COMING UP AT
THE END OF THIS YEAR, BUT ALSO HOW IT COULD BE USED TO
MITIGATE THAT PICTURE.
LITTLE REFRESH HERE.
THIS IS RIGHT OFF THE WEBSITE.
THE COMMUNITY INVESTMENT TAX.
I SHOULD HAVE DEFINED THAT EARLIER.
$783 MILLION IN YELLOW IN THE LOWER RIGHT.
THAT IS WHAT IS ANTICIPATED TO BE RECEIVED BY THE CITY.
OR I SHOULD SAY THAT IS WHAT WAS ANTICIPATED TO BE BY THE
CITY WHEN THIS PLAN WAS PUT TOGETHER A FEW YEARS AGO.
ALSO WANT TO STATE -- THAT IS A BIG NUMBER.
IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO GET BIGGER BUT I WANT TO REEMPHASIZE,
NOT GETTING THAT ALL AT ONCE.
WE'RE NOT DOING A DEBT ISSUANCE FOR 783 MILLION, FOR
EXAMPLE.
IT'S SPREAD OVER 15 YEARS.
IT DOESN'T START UNTIL ALREADY INTO NEXT FISCAL YEAR AND WE

HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED COLLECTING IT YET.
THIS IS ALL, AGAIN, CONJECTURE, EDUCATED CONJECTURE BASED ON
WHAT WE KNOW AT THIS TIME.
WHAT YOU'LL SEE HERE ARE THE ALLOCATIONS BY CATEGORY ALONG
WITH UPDATED PROJECTIONS OF WHAT THOSE REVENUES WILL BE OVER
THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
I GUESS SIX YEARS.
YOU HAD A QUESTION, SIR.
11:08:38AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE'LL WAIT FOR A PAUSE.
11:08:39AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
FISCAL YEAR '27 THROUGH FISCAL YEAR '31.
AND ALL TOLD, ANTICIPATED TO BRING IN ABOUT $250 MILLION.
YOU SEE THAT FOOTNOTE AT THE BOTTOM, ASSUMES AN ANNUAL 3%
GROWTH IN CIT REVENUES.
NOW, YOU MAY HAVE READ IN THE MEDIA RECENTLY THERE'S BEEN A
LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT WILL THAT ANNUAL PERCENTAGE
GROWTH BE?
IF IT'S MORE THAN 3%, WELL, IT WILL BE MORE THAN YOU SEE
HERE AND IT WILL BE MORE THAN WAS PART OF THE PLAN WHEN THIS
RENEWAL WAS ENACTED.
YOU SEE AT THE BOTTOM, IT GOES THROUGH 2042.
SO THAT IS THE X FACTOR RIGHT NOW IS JUST WHAT WILL THIS
BRING IN FROM A GROWTH PERSPECTIVE OVER THE NEXT 15 YEARS.
YOU MAY HAVE ALSO READ THAT IN HINDSIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE THE
CURRENT CIT AT ABOUT A 4 PLUS PERCENT GROWTH RATE.
SO THIS 3 PERCENT I WOULD SUBMIT AND BY DESIGN, IS VERY

CONSERVATIVE.
THERE MAY BE MORE.
ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS IN
CONTRAST TO THE CIP WE HAVE NOW, FROM FISCAL YEAR '26 TO
FISCAL YEAR '30, WE HAVE TAKEN THIS OUT FIVE YEARS.
WANT TO GET A LITTLE MORE ACCURATE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE
EXPECT AND BRING FURTHER INTO PLAY THAT FINAL YEAR, IN THIS
FIVE-YEAR PERIOD.
FISCAL YEAR 2031.
YOU'LL SEE IT IS ALL FALLING INTO FUND BALANCE THERE.
THERE'S NO ALLOCATIONS AT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A
C.I.P. YET THAT CORRESPONDS TO THIS.
BUT I DO WANT TO GIVE COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC AN IDEA OF JUST
WHAT KIND OF FUNDING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANNUALLY OVER THE
NEXT 15 YEARS.
I THINK THE CRUX OF THAT DISCUSSION IS WHETHER THE PROJECT
CATEGORIES ARE REPRIORITIZED IN THE NEXT C.I.P.
WHETHER WE COLLECT MORE FUNDING THAN WE ANTICIPATE OR
WHETHER WE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UNALLOCATED, FISCAL YEAR
2031 AND BEYOND, THOSE ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES TO MITIGATE THE
POTENTIAL DEBT SERVICE.
I'M NOT PREPARED TO DISCUSS IT, BUT YOU WILL HAVE READ ABOUT
IT IN THE MEDIA.
THIS FUNDING SOURCE HAS ALSO BEEN DISCUSSED REGARDING THE
PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS IN PLAY WHEN WE DISCUSS HOW WE'RE
GOING TO ALLOCATE AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO EVENTUALLY SPEND
THIS FUNDING.
MY TAKEAWAY, IT'S SIGNIFICANT.
COULD BE MORE.
COULD BE MORE.
IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE ANNUAL -- AND I DON'T THINK WE PUT IT
IN HERE.
WE DID NOT.
IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE ANNUAL COLLECTIONS OF THE EXISTING
C.I.P. -- CIT, EXCUSE ME, IT LOOKS JUST LIKE THOSE OTHER
INVESTMENT CHARTS DID.
EKG.
GREAT YEARS, AWFUL YEARS.
GREAT YEARS, AWFUL YEARS.
LOOKING BACK, ABOUT A 4% ANNUAL GROWTH RATE.
CAN WE LOOK FORWARD TO THAT?
I DON'T KNOW.
MAYBE.
MAYBE.
BUT IT'S SIGNIFICANT FUNDING.
SO IN MY MIND, COUNCIL, THIS IS A JUMPING OFF POINT FOR
DISCUSSION, FUTURE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THIS FUNDING WILL
BE USED FOR AND WILL IT BE USED TO MITIGATE DEBT.
11:11:57AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA FOLLOWED BY MANISCALCO.

11:11:59AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I AGREE WITH THE LAST SENTENCE YOU SAID
WHAT IT SHOULD BE USED FOR.
FIRST OF ALL, HOW MANY YEARS DO WE HAVE OF CIT LEFT?
11:12:07AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THE CURRENT CIT ENDS THIS YEAR, AND THIS
ONE STARTS UP FOR 15 YEARS AT THE END --
11:12:13AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
15 PLUS ONE, 16 YEARS.
11:12:16AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
16 YEARS WHEN YOU COMBINE BOTH OF THEM.
YES, SORRY.
11:12:20AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHEN I'M -- I'M TAKING AN ASSUMPTION OF A
PUBLIC FACILITY, WHICH I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS,
BUT I DO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS NOW AFTER IT PASSED THAT IT WAS
NOT JUST PUBLIC FACILITIES.
IT WAS PUBLIC FACILITIES FOR SOMEONE ELSE.
I'M LOOKING AT THAT, IF I GO BACK ONE MORE, LIKE $48 MILLION
THERE?
11:12:43AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WHICH SLIDE?
11:12:46AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'LL FIND IT FOR YOU.
11:12:54AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
31 YES.
11:12:58AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
7.2 MILLION, 9.1 MILLION, 9.3 MILLION,
9.53 -- 27 AND 8 I'M GOING TO SAY.
SO YOU HAVE CLOSE TO 40 MILLION, MORE THAN $40 MILLION GOING
TO WHATEVER PUBLIC FACILITIES ARE.
PUBLIC FACILITIES, NO ONE CAN WALK IN WITHOUT A TICKET.
YOU CAN GO TO THE PUBLIC PARK, YOU CAN GO TO A REC CENTER.
YOU CAN GO TO SOMETHING THAT ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY OWNS AND

THAT'S PUBLIC FACILITY.
BUT IN THIS CASE, PUBLIC FACILITY, IN MY MIND ANYWAY,
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS NOT EITHER ONE OF THOSE.
AM I CORRECT OR NOT?
11:13:40AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT.
LET ME DEFINE THAT FIRST.
YOU CAN SEE UNDER PUBLIC FACILITIES, RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM
AND AMALIE ARENA.
11:13:48AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
IT WASN'T PUT THAT WAY, IF NOT, IT WOULD
HAVE NEVER PASSED.
IT WAS PUT DOWN AS PUBLIC FACILITIES FOR A REASON.
A CAUSE AND DETERMINATION OF MINDS TO PUT HOW DO WE SCREW
THE PUBLIC.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.
BUT THAT'S YESTERDAY'S NEWS.
THERE IS ANOTHER ENTITY NOW THAT WANTS TO TAKE OVER AND
BECOMES PART OF THE PUBLIC FACILITY, THOUGH THEY WERE NOT
HERE THEN, AM I CORRECT?
11:14:16AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I'M SORRY.
COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
11:14:19AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SOMETIMES I CAN'T REPEAT MYSELF BECAUSE I
DON'T KNOW WHAT I SAID EARLIER.
11:14:23AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT'S WHY I ASKED.
11:14:25AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
IN THE CIT THAT PEOPLE WANT THAT IT WAS
NEEDED FOR THE PUBLIC AT THE TIME IT WAS PASSED IT WAS NOT

INTENDED TO BE WHAT IT IS NOW.
IN OTHER WORDS, SOMEBODY COMES IN, PAYS SOMETHING FOR THE
FORD OR NOT A FORD, YET THEY WANT US, TAXPAYERS OF CITY OF
TAMPA AND HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TO GET READY TO BUY THE CIT
AND GET THAT TO ENSURE THAT THEY CAN SUCCEED IN WHATEVER THE
HELL THEY WANT TO DO.
FIRST OF ALL, THEY SAY SOMEBODY, MUCH HIGHER GOVERNMENT THAN
US, OH, THAT BUILDING HAS TO COME DOWN BECAUSE IT'S 50 YEARS
OLD.
IF THAT'S TRUE, THEN 99.9 PERCENT, ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT
OF ALL THE DWELLINGS IN TAMPA SHOULD BE DESTROYED.
AND MADE NEW.
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY OR HE SAID.
NOT I.
NOT YOU, NOT ANYONE HERE.
SO WHEN I LOOK AT THESE THINGS AND I STUDY IT, IT'S
FASCINATING HOW SOMEONE CAN SAY I WANT YOUR MONEY TO DO WHAT
I MADE AN INVESTMENT IN FOR MY OWN CAUSE, NOT FOR PUBLIC
FACILITIES, BECAUSE YOU GOT TO BUY A TICKET TO GET IN.
TO WHATEVER IT IS.
I'M APPALLED AT THE WAY WE DO THINGS AND NOTHING WITH YOU,
REFLECTION ON YOUR DEPARTMENT, BELIEVE ME.
I THINK YOU GUYS DO UNBELIEVABLE JOB WITH ALL THE NUMBERS
EVERY TIME WE ASK YOU TO COME UP WITH THE RIGHT NUMBERS, HOW
IT CAME ABOUT, WHERE THE EXPENDITURES ARE GOING ON A MONTHLY

BASIS.
I DON'T SEE HOW YOU DO THAT BUT ONE FANTASTIC JOB.
WHY DO WE HAVE TO PUT PUBLIC FACILITIES WHERE WE KNOW THAT
THE PUBLIC CANNOT GET IN?
IF IT REALLY MEANS PUBLIC FACILITIES.
EVERYBODY WENT MUTE.
11:16:18AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I BELIEVE THAT HAS BEEN ASKED AND
ANSWERED.
I'M TRYING TO WRAP YOU BACK INTO THE DISCUSSION TODAY.
11:16:24AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
LIKE A STORM, ROLLS UP AND ROLLS OUT.
I'VE DONE MY DAMAGE AND LEAVE, THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING.
WE ARE RAIDING OUR OWN MONEY AND GIVING IT AWAY.
I'LL STOP RIGHT THERE FOR NOW.
THANK YOU.
11:16:36AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
11:16:39AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MR. ROGERO, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE IS OF CIT INCOME
THAT IS PAID BY OUTSIDE SOURCES?
MEANING, FOLKS THAT DRIVE IN TO GO TO WORK OR TOURISTS THAT
COME AND SPEND THEIR MONEY.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS 40% -- I FORGOT WHAT THE NUMBER IS.
IT IS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE --
11:16:58AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WE CAN CIRCLE BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
11:17:02AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I'LL TELL YOU WHY I LIKE THE CIT AND WHY

I DON'T LIKE BONDING.
IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, RIGHT BEFORE THIS LOOKING AT THE
AMOUNT OF INTEREST THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FROM NOW
TILL FISCAL YEAR 2060 IS IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
MONEY THAT WE'RE GIVING AWAY TO THE BANKS.
LAST NIGHT I SPENT SOME TIME WITH SOME FRIENDS, AND I KEPT
HEARING THE WORD DIVIDEND, DIVIDEND.
WAIT UNTIL YOUR DIVIDEND CHECK HITS AND SPEND YOUR DIVIDEND
OR REINVEST YOUR DIVIDEND.
IT MADE ME THINK OF THE CIT.
THE CIT IS A DIVIDEND BECAUSE IT IS MONEY GENERATED BY
LOCAL, BY US, PEOPLE THAT COME HERE, FROM OUTSIDE THE
COUNTY, BUT IT IS MONEY THAT IS COMING IN THAT WE'RE NOT
BORROWING.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE BORROWING AND YOU TALKED ABOUT
INTEREST RATES, WE'RE PAYING MONEY TO THE BANK.
IT'S NOT FREE MONEY.
AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL CUTS IN INTEREST RATES AS
WHAT COULD BE PROJECTED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, REMEMBER THAT
WHEN YOU CUT INTEREST RATES, IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE SAVING
MONEY.
THINGS GO UP.
THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERED THE INFLATION THAT WE'VE SEEN.
AND LOOKING AT THE CHART THAT YOU SHOWED, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE COST OF HOUSING, THE COST OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT

UP DURING COVID, IT WAS WHEN INTEREST RATES WERE AT THEIR
LOWEST.
NOW WE'RE IN THIS -- COUNCILMAN MIRANDA MENTIONED THE TWO BY
FOUR THAT WAS TWO DOLLARS IS NOW TEN DOLLARS.
SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.
THE HOUSING MARKET THAT WENT FROM YOU COULD BUY A HOUSE FOR
200 BUT NOW 450.
NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BRINGING RATES DOWN, BUT IF WE BRING
RATES DOWN, WE, THEY FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL, KICK OFF
INFLATION, ARE WE GOING TO BE BACK IN THE SAME SITUATION?
ALL IN THE ESSENCE OF A SOFTENING JOB MARKET.
I MEAN, IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STUCK.
IT IS A CATCH-22.
YOU THINK IT IS CHEAPER MONEY OR FREE MONEY, ALMOST FREE
MONEY, BUT EVERYTHING BECOMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
ANYWAYS, LOOKING AT THE CIT, I SEE HOW THE CATEGORIES ARE
SEPARATED.
PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITIES.
GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CIT IN THE 1990s, IT WAS I
BELIEVE CIT MONEY WAS USED TO BUILD THE POLICE SUBSTATIONS.
DISTRICT ONE, TWO AND THREE, I THINK, IN THE GRECO
ADMINISTRATION.
WHY IS SO LITTLE ALLOCATED TO PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITIES WHEN
COUNCILMAN VIERA HAS BEEN SUCH A CHAMPION ON MORE FIRE
STATIONS.

WE'VE HEARD FROM THE UNION.
WE'VE HEARD FROM TPD REGARDING PUBLIC SAFETY VEHICLES, EVEN
TAMPA FIRE, REPLACING THE VEHICLES, WHICH ARE VERY
EXPENSIVE.
WHY DO WE ALLOCATE SUCH LITTLE MONEY WHEN IF YOU'RE LOOKING
AT THE PROJECTED ENDING FUND BALANCE AS IT CONTINUES TO
GROW, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, MAYBE I'M READING THIS WRONG,
BUT BY FISCAL YEAR 2031 YOU ANTICIPATE AFTER EXPENSES $77
MILLION, CORRECT?
11:19:53AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT IS THE FORECAST BASED ON 3%.
11:19:56AM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
COULD BE HIGHER, COULD BE LOWER.
WHY ARE WE NOT ALLOCATING -- AGAIN, NOT THAT IT'S FREE
MONEY, BUT MONEY WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT BONDING.
WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE C.I.P. AND MR. PERRY MENTIONED IT'S
NOT THAT YOU APPROVE SOMETHING YEAR ONE, YOU LOOK MULTIPLE
YEARS, WE HAVE ESTIMATES OF THESE NUMBERS FROM 24 MILLION
ONE YEAR AND THEN YOU GET TO 2031 TO $77 MILLION, BONDING
LESS.
BORROWING LESS.
AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE CONVERSATION THAT I HAD LISTENING
TO THEM LAST NIGHT, THESE GENTLEMEN, NOBODY SAID PUT IT ON
THE CREDIT CARD.
I KEPT HEARING, WHEN THE DIVIDEND CHECK HITS, THAT'S WHEN I
SPEND THAT MONEY OR I REINVEST IT.
NOBODY SAID, WELL, PUT IT ON AMERICAN EXPRESS AND GET THE

POINTS.
THEY NEVER TALKED ABOUT DEBT.
NOT SAYING ALL DEBT IS BAD, BUT WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES HERE
MOVING FORWARD THAT WE CAN SAVE SO MUCH MONEY.
I'LL END WITH GOING BACK TO THIS CHART OF THE INTEREST THAT
WE'RE PAYING IS INSANE.
I KNOW THAT IT ONE DAY WILL SUNSET, BUT IN THE MEANTIME,
WE'RE GOING TO BE ADDING ON MORE PROJECTS IN THE NEXT 30,
WHAT IS IT, 33, 34 YEARS, THAT DEBT IS NEVER GOING TO GO
AWAY.
NEVER PAY IT OFF.
NEVER WILL BE DEBT-FREE.
IN THE MEANTIME, WITH THIS 15-YEAR OPPORTUNITY OF THE CIT,
WE CAN MAKE PRUDENT DECISIONS WHERE WE MAY NOT BE HERE, BUT
IN THOSE GENERATION -- THE NEXT GENERATION, WE'RE NOT JUST
CONSTANTLY PAYING THE BANKS.
THAT'S IT.
THANK YOU.
11:21:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ONE THING THAT JUMPS OFF THE TABLE FOR ME
IS THAT -- SORRY, DIDN'T SEE YOUR LIGHT.
COUNCILWOMAN NAYA YOUNG.
11:21:28AM >>NAYA YOUNG:
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AS I'M LOOKING AT THE CIT RENEWAL SUMMARY AND THE PROPOSED
COMMUNITY INVESTMENT PROJECT LIST, SIDEWALK REPAIRS,
REPAVING, BRIDGE REPAIRS, THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, I'VE HAD

OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION
MEETINGS.
AND AS I'M LISTENING TO SOME OF THE COMMUNITY, A LOT OF WHAT
COMES UP IS, YOU KNOW, HOW, YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY
ALWAYS ASK, YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THIS -- YOU KNOW, WHERE DOES
THE MONEY GO?
YOU KNOW, THESE ROADS HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, FOR AS
LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER OR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE LIVED IN
COMMUNITIES FOR, YOU KNOW, 10, 20 PLUS YEARS.
SO AS WE'RE LOOKING -- YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS
AND LOOKING AT THESE DOLLAR AMOUNTS, CAN YOU MAYBE SPEAK TO
THAT OR PROVIDE SOME KIND OF, I GUESS, -- ONLY WORD I CAN
THINK OF IS EXPLANATION, BUT HOW DO WE KNOW MOVING FORWARD
WITH THESE, YOU KNOW, THIS PROJECT LIST THAT IT MAKES IT
INTO COMMUNITIES THAT, YOU KNOW, OVER YEARS HAVEN'T
NECESSARILY SEEN SOME OF THESE PROJECTS?
BECAUSE I COULD TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, ALL THE MEETINGS THAT
OUR COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION MEETINGS I'VE BEEN TO, SIDEWALKS,
REPAVING, BRIDGE REPAIRS, TRAFFIC, ALL OF THESE THINGS COME
UP ALL THE TIME.
AND SO FOR ME AS I'M LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS AND I'M LIKE,
OKAY, SOMETHING -- HOW -- WHERE IS THE CONNECTION?
BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WE'RE
DOING THESE BUT, YOU KNOW, THESE PAST FIVE MONTHS THROUGH,
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE AREAS IN MY DISTRICT AND I TALK TO

PEOPLE, OH, AS LONG AS I LIVED HERE.
CAN YOU PROVIDE SOME KIND OF MAYBE I DON'T KNOW EXPLANATION
OR CLARITY OR JUST SOMETHING THAT KIND OF SPEAKS TO THAT?
11:23:17AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES, MA'AM.
I'LL DO MY BEST.
THIS IS A GOOD SLIDE TO START AT THE MACRO LEVEL.
AGAIN, A LITTLE OVER $780 MILLION.
YOU SEE THE ALLOCATION FOR TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC WORKS,
191 MILLION.
ONE OF -- AND THEN I'LL ADVANCE TO THIS SLIDE.
AND WE BRING IT DOWN TO THE YEAR BY YEAR PROJECT CATEGORY BY
PROJECT CATEGORY LEVEL.
THE SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS, THE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
DURING BUDGET DEVELOPMENT, WHEN COUNCIL LOOKS AT THE
FIVE-YEAR PLAN FOR ANY NUMBER OF FUNDING SOURCES, INCLUDING
THIS ONE, YOU'LL IDENTIFY SIMILAR TO WHAT MR. PERRY AND
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK WERE DISCUSSING EARLY, PROJECT BY
PROJECT BY PROJECT WITHIN THAT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
IT'S FIVE YEARS.
IT'S A PLAN.
WE ADOPT THE FIRST YEAR.
SO YOU'LL TAKE THIS FUNDING ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IN THESE
CATEGORIES OR NOT THESE CATEGORIES, AGAIN, THAT IS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THE AMOUNTS FOR THESE CATEGORIES

DURING THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
AND THEN YOU'LL ALLOCATE.
I'LL TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, PARKS CAPITAL.
THAT 3.5 MILLION FISCAL YEAR 2027 COULD GO TO DOCKS.
IT COULD GO TO TRAILS.
IT COULD GO TO ANY NUMBER OF PARKS AND RECREATION PURPOSES.
DOES THAT HELP MAKE A CONNECTION FROM THE BIG POT OF MONEY
TO EACH INDIVIDUAL PROJECT?
AND THAT'S PART OF THE BUDGET DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
11:24:44AM >>NAYA YOUNG:
KIND OF.
MY THING IS I JUST WANT TO BE SURE, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE
LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE MAKING SURE IT'S
DISBURSED EQUALLY THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
AGAIN, I RIDE THROUGH MY COMMUNITIES AND DISTRICT JUST SO I
CAN GET FIRST HAND WHAT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY IS DEALING
WITH.
SO I -- MY THING IS MAKING SURE, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT
THESE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, THESE LARGE, YOU KNOW,
SUMS OF MONEY ARE BEING DISBURSED EVENLY THROUGHOUT THE
CITY.
11:25:17AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT WOULD BE THE BUDGET PROCESS.
11:25:21AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
JUST SO YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RENEWAL
SUMMARY, THIS IS FOR THE RENEWAL.
THIS HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET.
SO THE PAST CIT IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.

UNFORTUNATELY, IF I'M CORRECT, A LOT OF THAT MONEY WAS
BONDED IMMEDIATELY, SO WE DIDN'T GET A LOT -- WE WEREN'T
ABLE TO USE THAT YEAR BY YEAR.
THE STATE HAS SINCE CHANGED THE PROCESS WITH WHICH WE CAN
USE CIT MONEY, SO THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE.
THESE SIDEWALK REPAIRS, ALL OF THAT WERE NOT NECESSARILY IN
THE LAST CIT, AND WE'RE STILL IN THE LAST CIT UNTIL THE
BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR.
THAT'S A PARTIAL REASONING TOO.
11:26:00AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
GREAT POINT.
THANK YOU, MA'AM.
THIS IS ALL PROSPECTIVE.
THAT WAS RETROSPECTIVE.
I WILL SEGUE BACK TO ONE OF COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO'S
QUESTIONS, YOU SEE IT WEIGHTED EACH YEAR, FOR INSTANCE,
PUBLIC SAFETY VEHICLES.
YOU CAN SEE THE PRIORITY FOR THIS PARTICULAR CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
PUNT SAFETY VEHICLES AT A LITTLE OVER TWELVE FIVE AND THEN
ESCALATING EACH YEAR.
AND IN THE PAST, THE CAPITAL -- SORRY, THE COMMUNITY
INVESTMENT TAX WAS ALSO UTILIZED FOR THAT TO TAKE SOME OF
THE BURDEN OFF OF THE GENERAL FUND.
SO PRIORITIES CHANGE AND DETAILED DECISIONS CHANGE EVERY
SINGLE YEAR DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS.

BUT THANK YOU, THAT IS A GOOD CLARIFICATION.
THANK YOU.
11:26:43AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
MR. MIRANDA?
11:26:48AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NO.
11:26:50AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:26:54AM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU.
I WANT TO REITERATE SOME OF WHAT MY COLLEAGUE, COUNCIL
MEMBER MANISCALCO SAID A LITTLE WHILE AGO.
ALL OF THESE -- ALL OR MOST OF THESE ARE REAL HIGH
PRIORITIES.
WE HEAR ABOUT THESE EVERY DAY, AND WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THESE
IN THE REGULAR BUDGET, TOO.
BUT WE NEED TO REMEMBER PUBLIC SAFETY VEHICLES AND PUBLIC
SAFETY FACILITIES ARE LUMPED IN TOGETHER.
WE'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND THAT FIRE HAS BEEN UNDERFUNDED FOR
YEARS.
AND WHEN THE FIRE TRUCKS OR FIRE FACILITIES ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE -- FIRE VEHICLES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOUR, FIVE YEARS OLD
AND THEY ARE TWENTY YEARS OLD, AND IF THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OF
THEM, THEN WE CAN'T PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE.
SOUNDS LIKE FROM WHAT CHIEF TRIPP IS SAYING, WE'RE GETTING
BY RIGHT NOW.
SOON, WE'LL FACE SITUATIONS WHERE EITHER VEHICLES WON'T
ARRIVE ON TIME BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM OR A
20-YEAR-OLD VEHICLE BREAKS DOWN WHILE THEY ARE ON THE WAY TO

SAVE SOMEBODY WITH A HEART ATTACK.
WE HAVE TO SET THAT AS A PRIORITY.
THE OTHER THING, I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO DO THIS BY
ORDINANCE OR WHATEVER, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT CIT MONEY
IS NOT USED ON ANY VANITY PROJECTS.
EXISTING CIT, SOME PROPOSALS TO USE THEM ON VANITY PROJECTS.
BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT PUTTING SOMETHING IN SOMEBODY'S EXIT
VIDEO.
IT HAS TO BE ON THE BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THE CITY
NEEDS.
THANK YOU.
11:28:19AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OKAY.
I BELIEVE WE ARE READY FOR THE NEXT SEGMENT.
11:28:24AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THANK YOU, COUNCIL.
IF I COULD HAVE -- THERE WE ARE.
ALL RIGHT.
COUNCIL, WOULD YOU MIND ADVANCING TO THE REIMBURSEMENT
RESOLUTION SECTION?
OUR BOND COUNSEL HAS TO LEAVE, AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK
TO --
11:28:45AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SURE. IS THAT THE NEXT SECTION?
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION.
I THINK IT IS A COUPLE MORE DOWN.
PAGE NUMBERS WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL.
11:29:00AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I APOLOGIZE.

YES.
THIS IS MR. STEVE MILLER, OUR BOND COUNSEL.
11:29:14AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THE NEXT SECTION.
ABOUT SIX PAGES DOWN.
11:29:21AM >>STEVE MILLER:
GOOD MORNING.
STEVE MILLER WITH NABORS, GIBLIN NICKERSON, BOND COUNSEL FOR
THE CITY.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.
I HAVE A FLIGHT TO CATCH IN NOT TOO LONG.
SO I WANTED TO GET THROUGH THIS.
DENNIS ASKED ME TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ON THE REIMBURSEMENT
RESOLUTIONS.
I THINK THE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE SEEN THEM BEFORE AND
CONSIDERED THEM BEFORE, BUT WANTED TO DO, AGAIN, A GENERAL
OVERVIEW ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE, WHY WE DO THEM AND WHAT THEY
ARE NOT AS WELL.
THESE RULES, THESE REIMBURSEMENT RULES ARE TAX RULES THAT
THE IRS ADMINISTERS.
THEY WERE PUT IN PLACE IN THE EARLY '90s BECAUSE THE IRS
PERCEIVED THAT THERE WERE SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THAT WERE
KIND OF ABUSING THE TAX-EXEMPT MARKETPLACE BY DOING PROJECTS
ON A PAY-AS-YOU-GO BASIS.
THAT WAS KIND OF THE PLAN.
THEY DID THE PROJECT AND THEN YEARS LATER THEY WOULD PLUG A
BUDGET GAP OR JUST DECIDE THAT THEY NEEDED CASH, THEY WOULD

LOOK BACK AND SAY, HEY, THE PROJECT WE DID FOUR YEARS AGO,
WE COULD HAVE BONDED FOR THAT.
THEY WOULD GO OUT AND ISSUE BONDS AND THEN PLUG THE BUDGET
GAP OR PUT IT BACK INTO THEIR FUNDS.
IRS CAME UP WITH RULES IN THE EARLY '90s THAT SAID, LOOK,
WE UNDERSTAND THAT DURING YOUR CAPITAL PROGRAM PROCESS, IT
TAKES A WHILE, AS WE LEARNED EARLIER TODAY.
AND THAT WE MAY CHANGE OUR MINDS ALONG THE WAY ABOUT HOW
WE'RE GOING TO FUND SOMETHING.
WE DON'T KNOW UP FRONT WHEN A PROJECT COMES ALONG, WILL WE
DO IT WITH CASH OR DO IT WITH DEBT?
THEY PUT IN RULES THAT SAID, OKAY, WE GET THAT.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR RIGHT TO DO DEBT, WHEN YOU
DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO UP FRONT, AND THAT YOU
MAY USE SOME OF YOUR OWN MONIES TO FUND THE PROJECT
INITIALLY, WE WANT TO YOU ADOPT WHAT IS CALLED AN OFFICIAL
INTENT.
AND IN FLORIDA THEY KIND OF EVOLVED INTO THESE SHORT
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTIONS.
AND WHAT THEY ARE INTENDED TO DO IS TO -- MOST IMPORTANTLY
IS TO PRESERVE YOUR ABILITY TO ISSUE TAX EXEMPT DEBT FOR A
PROJECT IN THE FUTURE IF YOU ARE GOING TO POSSIBLY USE.
11:31:22AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
DO YOU HAVE THE PRESENTATION IN FRONT OF
YOU, COUNCIL?
COULD WE HAVE THE PRESENTATION -- THERE YOU ARE.

11:31:27AM >>STEVE MILLER:
SO IT ALLOWS YOU, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE
FLEXIBILITY THAT WHEN A PROJECT COMMENCES, YOU MAY KNOW IT
UP FRONT THAT YOU WANT TO ISSUE TAX EXEMPT DEBT.
YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU WANT TO DO IT PAY AS YOU GO, BUT YOU
MAY NOT KNOW.
SO THE ISSUE IS ADOPTING THESE IS A VERY GOOD TOOL TO GIVE
YOU THE FLEXIBILITY DOWN THE ROAD TO POSSIBLY ISSUE TAX
EXEMPT DEBT.
ONE THING WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, IT DOESN'T COMMIT YOU TO ISSUE
THE DEBT.
IT SIMPLY IS PRESERVING THAT RIGHT.
AND THE BENEFITS THAT ARE LISTED UP HERE, I THINK I COVERED
THE FIRST TWO BULLETS, IS THAT IT ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF TAX EXEMPT DEBT.
IT PRESERVES YOUR OPTIONS TO DECIDE HOW TO DO IT DOWN THE
ROAD.
AN IMPORTANT ITEM, THE THIRD BULLET THAT FOLKS DON'T TALK
ABOUT TOO MUCH IS AS WE JUST SAW HOW LONG THE PROCESS CAN
BE, IF YOU ISSUE DEBT ON DAY ONE, THE INTEREST CLOCK STARTS
ACCRUING.
YOU'RE STARTING TO BE LIABLE FOR INTEREST.
IF YOU DO HAVE FUNDS ON HAND THAT YOU CAN USE YOUR OWN
INITIALLY AND THEN GET TO A CRITICAL MASS STAGE WHERE YOU
ISSUE DEBT, REIMBURSE YOURSELF AND MOVE FORWARD.
IT DOES SAVE ON INTEREST OR CAN.

THERE ARE ALSO TAX RULES, ADDITIONAL TAX RULES IN THE CODE
THAT HAVE REQUIREMENTS ABOUT HOW QUICKLY YOU SPEND TAX EMPTY
BOND PROCEEDS AND HOW QUICKLY YOU EXPECT TO SPEND TAX EXEMPT
BOND PROCEEDS.
SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HAVE A PROJECT THAT WILL TAKE A VERY,
VERY, VERY LONG TIME, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLY WITH
THOSE RULES.
SOME PEOPLE CAN USE THIS AS A WAY TO USE YOUR OWN MONEY AND
THEN ISSUE THE DEBT WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY READY TO REALLY
START SPENDING IT ON A QUICKER PACE.
THE NEXT SLIDE, THREE COMPONENTS, THE KEY ONES THAT THE IRS
REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE IN THERE, ONE, A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF
THE PROJECT.
THEY DON'T WANT YOU JUST DOING A BLANKET REIMBURSEMENT
RESOLUTION FOR YOUR ENTIRE FIVE-YEAR C.I.P.
THEY WANT SOME SPECIFICITY ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THEY ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHICH FUNDS OR FUND THAT YOU EXPECT
TO SPEND SOME OF YOUR OWN MONEY OUT OF.
DOING A WATER SEWER DEAL, WATER AND SEWER ENTERPRISE FUND IS
LIKELY WHERE YOU SPEND MONEY FROM BEFORE YOU ISSUE THE DEBT
IN SOME OF THE POLICE AND OTHER GENERAL GOVERNMENTAL
PROJECTS IT WOULD BE COMING FROM THE GENERAL FUND.
SO THEY WANT YOU TO IDENTIFY THAT AS WELL.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEY WANT YOU TO IDENTIFY THE
NOT-TO-EXCEED, EXPECTED NOT-TO-EXCEED BORROWING AMOUNT.

IF YOU WERE TO END UP BORROWING FOR THIS PROJECT, WHAT IS
YOUR BEST ESTIMATE OF THE NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT?
A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU SEE THE RESOLUTION IT CAN BE A
PRETTY HIGH NUMBER BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T
UNDER DO THAT NUMBER.
IF YOU END UP TO THE FINISH LINE AND ISSUE MORE THAN THAT
NUMBER, YOU'VE GOT TO AMEND YOUR REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION OR
DO A NEW ONE.
IT'S JUST DIFFICULT.
WHAT GOES INTO THAT CALCULATION, OBVIOUSLY, ALL OF THE
COUNCIL APPROVED CONTRACT PRICES, PREDESIGN, DESIGN,
ACQUISITION, CONSTRUCTION, THEN THERE IS ADDITIONAL COSTS
THAT HAVE TO BE KEPT IN MIND WHEN WE ISSUE DEBT, AND NOT ON
THIS LIST ALSO ARE THINGS LIKE YOUR DEBT MAY REQUIRE DEBT
SERVICE RESERVE FUND.
COST OF ISSUANCE INVOLVED WITH DOING A DEBT ISSUE.
RATINGS FEES, UNDERWRITERS FEES.
SO ALL OF THOSE ITEMS HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN COMING UP
WITH THAT NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT.
SO THE KEY TAKEAWAYS ARE, IT'S A GREAT TOOL TO ALLOW YOU
GUYS TO HAVE OPTIONS DOWN THE ROAD.
IT DOES NOT COMMIT YOU TO ISSUING DEBT.
WHEN YOU GUYS ADOPT A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION, THERE WILL
BE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY DOWN THE ROAD AS THE PROJECT GOES
ALONG FOR YOU ALL TO MAKE THE DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO

ISSUE DEBT OR NOT FOR THAT PROJECT.
AND YOU'D HAVE TO ADOPT A FULL-BLOWN BOND RESOLUTION.
WITH THAT I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN THIS QUITE A BIT, BUT WE
CAN ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS.
11:35:20AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
DOES COUNCIL HAVE QUESTIONS?
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:35:22AM >>STEVE MILLER:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
11:35:29AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THANK YOU, SIR.
IF I COULD HAVE THE PRESENTATION BACK UP.
NOW I BELIEVE --
11:35:39AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
ARE WE GOING BACKWARD?
11:35:43AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
WE ARE GOING BACKWARD.
I APOLOGIZE.
THERE WE ARE.
11:35:48AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
NON-AD VALOREM FINANCING.
11:35:51AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THIS IS MOLLY CLARK FROM PRAG.
11:35:57AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
BEFORE YOU STEP AWAY, MR. CFO, I ATE MY
BAGEL AND DID MY RESEARCH.
FROM THE CAPITALIST, TAMPA'S FINANCIAL CONDITION IS FOURTH
BEST NATIONALLY.
REPORT ON THE FINANCIAL CONDITION OF THE U.S. CITIES FOUND
THAT TAMPA WAS THE FOURTH BEST NATIONALLY WITH A SURPLUS OF
$3400 PER TAXPAYER.
AND THEY SAY RANKED AMONG 75 CITIES.
INTERESTING THING, ONLY TWO CITIES IN FLORIDA, ORLANDO AND

TAMPA, THAT RANKED THAT WAY.
AND THEN THEY REFERRED TO THE DISMAL CONDITION OF
JACKSONVILLE WHICH THEY OWE $9800 PER TAXPAYER FOR THE DEBT.
BY THE WAY, IT INCLUDES DEBT AND PENSIONS.
11:36:34AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I APOLOGIZE.
I HAD INTERPRETED IT TO BE THE FOURTH WORST.
YOU SAID FOURTH LOWEST.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I AM LESS SHOCKED.
11:36:47AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I WAS WONDERING, MAN, WHAT ARE YOU HOLDING
BACK?
IT WAS INTERESTING.
CAME ACROSS IN MY GOOGLE ALERTS.
THERE WE GO.
11:36:55AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ANOTHER CONGRATULATIONS.
11:36:59AM >>MOLLY CLARK:
GOOD MORNING.
I'M MOLLY CLARK WITH PUBLIC RESOURCES ADVISORY GROUP, THE
CITY'S OTHER FINANCIAL ADVISOR.
HAPPY TO BE HERE.
LET'S GET STARTED.
IN THIS SECTION, WE'LL DISCUSS THE CITY'S EXISTING
OUTSTANDING DEBT THAT'S SECURED BY NON-AD VALOREM REVENUES.
THIS IS THE PIE CHART YOU SAW EARLIER.
AGAIN, WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING IN THE NEXT SEVERAL SLIDES THE

OUTSTANDING NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE BONDS.
TOTAL OF APPROXIMATELY 517 MILLION IN BONDS OUTSTANDING.
THE NON-AD VALOREM REVENUES ARE MADE UP OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT
REVENUE SOURCES.
YOUR NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE DEBT IS MADE UP OF SEVERAL
DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL BOND ISSUES THAT WERE ISSUED AT
DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME AND MATURE AT DIFFERENT POINTS IN
TIME GOING FORWARD.
THIS SLIDE PRESENTS OUR ANNUAL DEBT SERVICE STARTING FROM
FISCAL YEAR 2026 GOING THROUGH FISCAL 2051 ON YOUR NON-AD
VALOREM REVENUE BONDS.
THESE BOND ISSUES, AS YOU CAN SEE, DEBT SERVICE IS WHAT WE
REFER TO AS FRONT END LOADED, MEANING THAT IN THE NEXT FOUR
YEARS, YOU'LL SEE THAT WE'VE GOT SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER ANNUAL
DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS, THEN DUE IN FISCAL YEAR 30 THROUGH
2051.
AGAIN, DENNIS AND MIKE BOTH TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER.
THAT SPIKE WE SEE IN 2029 IS THE RESULT OF THE PRINCIPAL ON
THE SOLID WASTE, THE REFURBISHMENT OF THE MCKAY BAY SOLID
WASTE FACILITY WAS FINANCED WITH NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE
PLEDGE.
THAT IS A SHORT-TERM INSTRUMENT THAT WE ANTICIPATE
REFINANCING IN 2027, 2028, SO THAT LARGE PAYMENT IN 2029
WILL NOT ACTUALLY COME TO BE MADE.
IT WILL BE REFINANCED BEFORE WE REACH THAT POINT IN TIME.

AND THEN, AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER AS WELL, THAT PORTION OF
THE DEBT WILL BE SMOOTHED OUT AND EXTENDED OVER THE
FORTHCOMING 30-YEAR PERIOD.
MOVING TO THE NEXT SLIDE, AGAIN, NON-AD VALOREM REVENUES, IT
IS A LARGE BASKET OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT REVENUE SOURCES.
WE HAVE LOCAL OPTION GAS TAX.
CRA REVENUES, TDT, ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT REVENUES MAKE UP
THE NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE BASKET AND DIFFERENT REVENUES MAY
BE PLEDGED IN AGGREGATE OR YOU HAVE CERTAIN OUTSTANDING BOND
ISSUES THAT ARE SECURED INDIVIDUALLY BY ONE OF THE PLEDGED
NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE SOURCES.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR CONVENTION CENTER DEBT IS BACKED BY
REVENUES GENERATED BY THE CONVENTION CENTER.
YOU HAVE SALES TAX REVENUE BONDS THAT ARE BACKED ONLY BY THE
CIT SALES TAX REVENUES, NOT THE ENTIRE BASKET OF NON-AD
VALOREM REVENUES.
SO WE SEE, AGAIN, FISCAL YEAR 26, 27, 28, 29 YOUR DEBT
SERVICE PAYMENTS ARE SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER IN THOSE YEARS
THAN THEY WILL BE 2030 AND GOING FORWARD.
I'LL POINT OUT ON THIS SLIDE ALSO, JUST FOR PURPOSES OF THE
WIDTH OF THE SLIDE, THIS ONLY SHOWS THROUGH 2036.
HOWEVER, DEBT SERVICE DOES AT THIS POINT IN TIME STAY LEVEL
AT APPROXIMATELY $15.9 MILLION PER YEAR, ALL THE WAY THROUGH
2051.
WE JUST COULDN'T FIT IT ALL ON ONE SLIDE.

THIS IS THE SCHEDULE OF OUTSTANDING PRINCIPAL, AGAIN, FROM
-- IN THIS CASE 2025 WAS INCLUDED THROUGH 2051.
THIS SHOWS HOW YOUR PRINCIPAL IS PAID DOWN OVER TIME FROM
THIS POINT IN TIME.
IF NO NEW DEBT WERE TO BE ISSUED BETWEEN NOW AND 2051, YOU
PAY IT ALL DOWN AND IN 2051 RELINQUISH THE FINAL PAYMENT AND
BE DEBT FREE GOING FORWARD.
WE DON'T EXPECT THAT TO BE THE CASE.
CITY MOST LIKELY WILL ISSUE NEW DEBT.
DEBT IS NEEDED AND APPROPRIATE TO USE AS A FINANCING
MECHANISM TO OPERATE THE CITY.
THIS JUST SHOWS THE AMORTIZATION OF YOUR PRINCIPAL OVERALL
IN THE NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE BOND PROGRAM.
AND THAT MAY BE THE LAST OF THE SLIDES HERE.
IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THEM.
THAT'S JUST AN OVERVIEW OF THE CURRENTLY OUTSTANDING NON-AD
VALOREM REVENUE BONDS.
11:41:16AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
11:41:16AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
PAGE 34, WHEN I SEE THE PRINCIPAL AND THE INTEREST, HOW YOU
GET THAT LOW INTEREST RATE.
3.5%?
JUST TAKING A GUESS.
11:41:27AM >>MOLLY CLARK:
THIS REPRESENTS SEVERAL DIFFERENT BOND ISSUES
AND A COUPLE OF BANK FACILITIES.

AND EACH ONE BEING PRICED AT A DIFFERENT POINT IN TIME IN
DIFFERENT MARKET CONDITIONS, EACH ONE OF THOSE DEBT
ISSUANCES CARRIES A DIFFERENT INTEREST RATE.
AS YOU SEE, THE GENERAL GOVERNMENT PORTION, THAT IS MADE UP
OF A FEW DIFFERENT SERIES OF BONDS.
SO THAT IS THE COLLECTIVE PRINCIPAL AND THE COLLECTIVE
INTEREST OF THOSE BONDS.
IT'S NOT ONE FLAT INTEREST RATE ACROSS ALL --
11:41:59AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
STILL THE LOWEST INTEREST RATE I'VE SEEN
SO FAR.
STILL THE LOWEST INTEREST RATE I'VE SEEN SO FAR IN ALL THE
PRESENTATIONS TODAY.
11:42:06AM >>MOLLY CLARK:
OKAY.
11:42:07AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.
11:42:09AM >>MOLLY CLARK:
AGAIN, YOUR INTEREST RATES ARE BASED ON YOUR
CREDIT RATINGS.
AND THE NON-AD VALOREM REVENUE BONDS HAVE THESE VERY, VERY
STRONG CREDIT RATES, AA 1 FOR MOODY'S.
AAA FROM S&P AND FITCH WITH THOSE STRONG CREDIT RATINGS,
YOU'RE GETTING JUST ABOUT THE LOWEST AVAILABLE INTEREST
RATES IN ANY MARKET.
IT'S TO THE CITY'S CREDIT THAT THE DEBT PROFILE HAS BEEN
VERY WELL MANAGED AND THANKFULLY YOUR CREDIT RATINGS REFLECT
THAT AND AS A RESULT YOU DO ACHIEVE EXCELLENT INTEREST
RATES.

11:42:45AM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU.
11:42:47AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
VERY GOOD.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
COUNCILMAN VIERA HAD POINTED OUT THAT WE'RE HONORED TO HAVE
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY.
11:42:59AM >> [INAUDIBLE]
[ LAUGHTER ]
11:43:13AM >> [INAUDIBLE]
11:43:15AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
GO AHEAD.
11:43:17AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
DENNIS ROGERO, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
THANK YOU.
I KNOW THIS IS A LENGTHY PRESENTATION, BUT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT A LOT OF MONEY AND A LOT OF DECISIONS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUING PATIENCE.
NOW MORE ON THE AD VALOREM DEBT PROGRAM.
I'LL MAKE THIS AS BRIEF AS I CAN.
WE DO WANT TO MAKE SURE, COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC ARE AWARE OF
UPCOMING DEBT ACTIONS IN THE SHORT TERM.
YOU SEE THESE RIGHT HERE.
TPD HOWARD ANNEX BUILDING, THE FLEET MAINTENANCE
DECENTRALIZATION, ALSO KNOWN AS 40th STREET.
THE PUBLIC SAFETY TRAINING FACILITY AND THE WEST RIVERWALK.
YOU SEE THE ASTERISK THERE.
I WANT TO POINT OUT, ESPECIALLY COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK, AS WE
TALK GOING THROUGH THOSE MONTHLY REPORTS, THAT HOWARD ANNEX

PROJECT IS ACTUALLY A TWO PROJECT.
I DON'T WANT TO LOSE THAT.
USED TO BE CALLED THE IMPOUND LOT PROJECT WHEN WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THAT.
GOT TWO COMPONENTS IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
AND WE'LL BE COMING TO YOU IN THE SHORT TERM FOR -- THE
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTIONS FOR THOSE ITEMS.
FURTHER, TO WHAT WE ENVISION THE FINANCING PLAN TO BE AT
THIS TIME, YOU SEE THE LINE OF CREDIT IN THE FIRST COLUMN
THERE AND THE POTENTIAL DEBT ISSUANCES TWO, THREE, FOUR, AND
FIVE, SOMEWHAT IN THE OUT YEARS, AS LONG AS FISCAL YEAR
2033, FOR EXAMPLE, AND AGAIN TO THE RIGHT, YOU SEE ABOUT A
QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS IN ANTICIPATED FINANCING AT
THIS TIME, ALTHOUGH I WILL NOTE IN THE LOWER LEFT, A LITTLE
ICING ON THE CAKE THERE, WE DID GET A SIGNIFICANT GRANT FOR
FIRE STATION 24 FROM THE FEDS AND ABOUT A QUARTER OF A
MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE RIVERWALK.
WE'LL CERTAINLY TAKE IT, AND IT WILL REDUCE WHAT WE THINK
THE DEBT IS GOING TO BE.
I BREAK THESE -- OR EXCUSE ME, WE BREAK THE CATEGORIES DOWN
INTO MORE DETAIL AND TO THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT LEVELS.
FOR INSTANCE, YOU SEE FIRE STATION 24 LINE OF CREDIT IN THE
CURRENT YEAR.
MAINTENANCE.
I WON'T READ THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

AND WE HAVE ARRIVED AT THESE TIME FRAMES BASED ON, AS I
BELIEVE MR. PERRY STATED EARLIER, DISCUSSION WITH THE
STAKEHOLDER AS TO WHEN WILL WE REALISTICALLY NEED THIS
MONEY?
AGAIN, AS YOU HEARD, OUR BOND COUNSEL SAY WHAT WE WOULD LIKE
TO DO IDEALLY, WE DON'T WANT TO BORROW MONEY AND SPEND
INTEREST ON IT BEFORE WE START USING THAT MONEY.
CONTINUING INTO THE CONVENTION CENTER AND GENERAL
GOVERNMENT, THERE IS THAT DECENTRALIZATION.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE IT ON HERE.
I HAVE TWO MONITORS HERE.
ONE SHOWS THE SHADING.
ONE DOES NOT.
COUNCIL, CAN YOU SEE THE FLEET MAINTENANCE DECENTRALIZATION
IN GRAY?
I WANT TO NOTE, THOSE ITEMS OR THOSE PROJECTS IN GRAY ARE
THOSE PROJECTS THAT WE WILL BE ASKING FOR REIMBURSEMENT
RESOLUTION.
MOVING INTO PARKS AND RECREATION AND MOBILITY, QUITE A FEW
PROJECTS IN THE MOBILITY PORTFOLIO.
BACK UP REAL QUICK.
AGAIN, I HOPE I MADE IT CLEAR THAT THOSE WERE THE INDIVIDUAL
PROJECTS UNDER THESE PARTICULAR CATEGORIES.
11:47:20AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
11:47:35AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
SO I THINK IF YOU GO BACK TO PAGE 41 ON THIS

WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, I
UNDERSTAND THAT YOU SHOW IT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL SLIDES,
BUT I THINK WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL IS TO HAVE THE
TOTAL AMOUNTS FOR EACH OF THESE PROJECTS HERE.
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IS MISSING.
11:47:54AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
UNDERSTOOD.
11:47:54AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
COULD YOU JUST TELL US HERE HOW MUCH IS THE
TPD HOWARD AVENUE ANNEX?
11:48:06AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I CANNOT.
ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THE POTENTIAL DEBT SERVICE COMPONENT.
I ABSOLUTELY SEE YOUR POINT.
AND WE'LL PROVIDE THAT TO YOU.
11:48:15AM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE
THING OF WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROJECTS, UPCOMING DEBT ACTIONS, WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THAT
DEBT IS.
SO THANK YOU.
11:48:26AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES, MA'AM.
11:48:26AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IS THAT IT?
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
11:48:28AM >>BILL CARLSON:
JUST THE SAME THING.
WE TALK ABOUT REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION, CHAIR CLENDENIN KIND
OF SAID THIS EARLIER, BUT IT SEEMS PUTTING THE CART BEFORE
THE HORSE TO APPROVE AN AMOUNT TO OBLIGATE, POTENTIALLY
OBLIGATE US TO WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH IT WILL

COST, SEEMS WE SHOULD WAIT TO GET GMP BEFORE SIGNING ANY
MORE REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTIONS.
11:48:54AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I WAS GOING TO SAY -- THAT SOUNDS LIKE A
GREAT IDEA.
WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT WE THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA.
THAT IS THE PLAN IS TO BRING THE REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION
COINCIDENT WITH THE GMP.
SO YOU'LL HAVE THAT INFORMATION AT THE SAME TIME.
11:49:08AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
OKAY.
GOOD.
I HAVE A QUESTION.
11:49:11AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES, SIR.
11:49:12AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I DON'T GET -- HAVE WE ALREADY AUTHORIZED
THIS?
DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME AND MAYBE I MISSED IT.
THE CONVENTION CENTER, WHICH I'M A HUGE SUPPORTER OF AND I
KNOW ALL THE STUFF NEEDS TO BE DONE, BUT THIS IS GENERAL
MAINTENANCE.
WHY ARE WE DOING GENERATIONAL FINANCING ON MAINTENANCE
PROJECTS?
SEEMS CRAZY TO ME.
11:49:34AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
AGAIN, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, IT WILL BE
WHAT IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME IN TERMS OF FUNDING SOURCES
AND WHAT THE PRIORITIES ARE.
I DO WANT TO EMPHASIZE, I THINK FURTHER TO YOUR POINT THAT

THIS IS A PLAN.
AND SHOULD THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL DECIDE THAT OTHER FUNDING
SOURCES ARE MORE APPROPRIATE, WE CAN CHANGE THE PLAN.
11:49:54AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHERE IS THE DECISION?
I DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT OFF GUARD AGAIN.
WHERE IS THE DECISION POINT ON FINANCING 8.7 MILLION FOR
MAINTENANCE?
11:50:01AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
11:50:04AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IS THAT ALREADY IDENTIFIED AS FINANCED?
11:50:07AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
11:50:07AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
AGAIN, SO WAS THERE IMPLIED CONSENT OR
VOTE ON THAT?
THIS IS WHAT I'M HAVING A HARD TIME, DIFFICULT TIME GRASPING
THIS CONCEPT.
I TRY NOT TO BE A STUPID MAN.
11:50:23AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NO BUT I HEARD SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS
EARLIER AND I THOUGHT MR. PERRY DID A GREAT JOB.
WHEN IT COMES TO ANYTHING, LOOK, I'VE GOT TWO WORLDS.
I'VE GOT ACCOUNTING AND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND THAT'S
ABOUT THE ONLY THING I WILL BE CERTAIN OF BECAUSE IT'S BEEN
LOOKED AT BY AN EXTERNAL AUDITOR AND IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED.
THE OTHER WORLD I LIVE IN IS THE BUDGET AND IT'S A PLAN.
ABOUT ALL I CAN OFFER YOU, IT IS THE BEST PLAN WE
COLLECTIVELY HAVE BASED ON THE INFORMATION AT THAT TIME.
PLANS CHANGE.

AGAIN, CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR CHANGED THE BUDGET BY TENS
OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
THAT IS A STARTING POINT.
AND THE REASON I SAY THAT, I'LL KIND OF DRAW A PARALLEL WITH
THIS FINANCING PLAN.
PLANS CHANGE.
11:51:15AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
HOW DOES THIS COUNCIL, HOW COULD WE AT
THIS POINT BE PROACTIVE AND NOT FINANCE $8.7 MILLION ON
GENERAL MAINTENANCE?
11:51:24AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, TURN TO MY LEFT, WE
HAVE A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION FOR THIS ALREADY, DO WE NOT?
BUT NOT A DEBT ISSUANCE.
THANK YOU, MA'AM.
YES, WE'VE GOT A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION AND WE STARTED
SPENDING MONEY ON THESE.
AGAIN, AS YOU HEARD OUR BOND COUNSEL SAY, THAT JUST MEANS
THE COUNCIL WANTS TO DO THIS AND WE MAY USE DEBT SERVICE FOR
IT.
WE HAVEN'T ISSUED THE DEBT SERVICE YET.
IT IS A LINE OF CREDIT ANTICIPATED FOR THIS FUNCTION.
11:51:54AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
JUST BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE C.I.P. AND WE
AUTHORIZED THE EXPENDITURES, IT'S OUTSIDE OF COUNCIL'S
DOMAIN UNTIL WE PROACTIVELY SAY, NO, WE'LL PAY FOR IT THIS
WAY INSTEAD OF THAT WAY OR IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC DRIVE.
11:52:07AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
NO, I WOULD NOT FRAME IT THAT WAY BECAUSE

COUNCIL HAS TO APPROVE THE DEBT SERVICE.
11:52:13AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THEN YOU BRING THE DEBT SERVICE IN THIS
BIG ROLLED-UP PACKAGE AND BECOMES ALMOST SO INTRINSICALLY
TIED THAT IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO EXTRACT THAT PIECE OF IT
FROM THAT DEBT ISSUANCE.
11:52:25AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
OKAY.
THAT IS FAIR, AND, OF COURSE, I THINK WE'VE SHARED IN THE
PAST WHY WE ROLL UP DEBT FOR COST SAVINGS --
11:52:32AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I GET IT.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND IS A WAY THAT COUNCIL HAS A CLEAR
GREEN LIGHT, RED LIGHT POINT OF DECISION MAKING, LIKE, THIS
IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.
IT'S REALLY CLEARLY DESCRIBED TO DUMB BUTTS LIKE ME, ISSUE
8.7 FOR MAINTENANCE AND DEBT.
DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS OR DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS?
I SEE MY ATTORNEY IS WAVING FRANTICALLY AT ME.
11:53:02AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
UNDERSTOOD.
11:53:03AM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
JUST A QUESTION PERHAPS FOR THE CHAIR AND MAYBE TO POSE IT
TO MR. ROGERO.
YOU ALSO APPROVE PARTICULAR CONTRACTS ON YOUR CONSENT AGENDA
FOR THIS SORT OF WORK.
THE QUESTION THEN IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SUMMARY SHEET,
DOES THE SUMMARY SHEET SAY THAT THIS IS ALSO SUBJECT TO THE
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION SO THAT COUNCIL IS AWARE THAT WHEN

IT APPROVES IT, IT IS GOING TO DO ONE OF TWO THINGS, IT IS
EITHER GOING TO PAY AS GO OR ENCUMBER DEBT TO ULTIMATELY PAY
FOR IT.
DOES THE FISCAL IMPACT ACTUALLY CLEARLY STATE THAT?
11:53:44AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
YES.
AND AS DOES --
11:53:46AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
NOT CLEARLY.
BECAUSE IT SAYS IT COULD BE.
11:53:50AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
AS DOES THE BUDGET.
I WANT TO WORK WITH YOU THROUGH THIS BECAUSE, AGAIN, MY
PRIORITY IS THAT COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS THE DECISIONS THEY ARE
MAKING.
AND IF WE CAN MAKE IT EASIER.
LOOK, WE LIVE AND BREATHE THIS STUFF.
TOTALLY, TOTALLY GET IT.
11:54:06AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE TALK ABOUT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, I'LL
TRUMP YOU ON THAT.
THE BUDGET STUFF, NOT SO MUCH.
AGAIN, SO THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FEEL LIKE -- I'M
SURE IT'S MY FAULT AND SURE THAT THERE ARE POINTS THESE
DECISIONS ARE MADE THAT I MISS THE FINE PRINT.
BUT AGAIN, I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE THAT ANY POINT IN TIME IN MY
LIFE BASED ON MY VALUES THAT I WOULD GUESS THAT I WOULD SAY,
OH, YEAH, $8.7 MILLION IN MAINTENANCE IS SOMETHING WORTH
DOING GENERATIONAL FINANCING FOR.

JUST LIKE I WOULDN'T SUGGEST THAT WE FINANCE DEPRECIATED,
THINGS THAT DEPRECIATE LIKE VEHICLES AND WHATNOT.
THOSE ARE PAY-GO KIND OF STUFF.
11:54:42AM >>HAGAR KOPESKY:
KOPESKY CITY COUNCIL BUDGET ANALYST.
SOMETIMES I THINK IT IS TRANSLATION.
I THINK AS THIS GROUP HAS COMMUNICATED MORE AND MORE ABOUT
WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO USE BONDING FOR, KIND OF EVOLVED.
TO YOUR POINT, JUST TO BE VERY CLEAR, THE ITEMS YOU JUST
DESCRIBED WERE FOUR OR FIVE THINGS THAT DO APPEAR TO BE MORE
MAINTENANCE-LIKE FOR CONVENTION CENTER.
BUT I THINK WE'RE AGREEING THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME IN THE
PAST YOU HAVE APPROVED A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION THAT
INCLUDED THOSE FOR THE TWO, FIVE MILLION, WHATEVER THE TOTAL
WAS.
HOWEVER, IN LIGHT OF THE CIT BALANCE FROM THE PREVIOUS, THE
POTENTIAL GO-FORWARD, THERE IS NOTHING THAT WOULD PREVENT
YOU FROM SAYING, UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING WE HAVE IN FRONT
OF US NOW, COULD YOU PLEASE LOOK AT WHETHER THERE'S CAPACITY
WITHIN THIS OTHER AREA TO NOW REMOVE THAT AND FUND IT
DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE YOU DO NOT NEED TO PROCEED FORWARD --
11:55:39AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I MEAN, MY VALUE SET IS THAT WE DON'T
FINANCE MAINTENANCE.
WE DON'T FINANCE DEPRECIATING ASSETS.
AS BEST AS WE CAN.
IF SOMETHING -- I'M NOT GOING TO FINANCE A FORD PICKUP FOR

30 YEARS KNOWING THAT FORD PICKUP WILL BE DEAD IN SIX YEARS.
FOR 24 YEARS, FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR
THE VEHICLE THAT THEY HAD NEVER SEEN.
11:56:05AM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND.
THANK YOU FOR THAT TRANSLATION, MS. KOPESKY.
AGAIN, I NEVER WANT TO FEEL LIKE COUNCIL IS BEING BACKED
INTO A CORNER.
IF WE CAN MAKE ANYTHING MORE TRANSPARENT OR CLEAR --
11:56:17AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION.
THIS IS A LEARNING CURVE FOR MYSELF.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE ON COUNCIL, A LEARNING CURVE TO
TRULY UNDERSTAND THIS.
AND ALSO BE ABLE TO, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AT LEAST ONE OF
SEVEN PEOPLE EXPRESS WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE -- I'M NOT
ANTIBONDING BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE
BONDED BUT AT LEAST WHAT IS APPROPRIATE TO BOND AND WHAT IS
NOT APPROPRIATE TO BOND.
BY THE WAY, ALL MY FRIENDS AT THE CONVENTION CENTER, I FULLY
SUPPORT THE NEEDS, WANTS, YOU GUYS HAVE TO HAVE.
THESE ARE ALL VERY WORTHY EXPENDITURES.
JUST WHERE THE DOLLARS ARE COMING FROM THE ONLY THING I'M
QUESTIONING.
11:56:53AM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
AGAIN, YOU SORT OF MADE A POINT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP COLUMN FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026, IT SAYS
A LINE OF CREDIT.

AND SO BY NOT ISSUING THE BONDS RIGHT OFF AND DOING A LINE
OF CREDIT, GETTING A LINE OF CREDIT, HUNDRED FIVE MILLION
DOLLARS, WE JUST HAVE IT OUT THERE.
AND WE COULD HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.
AND IF WE BRING THE CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION AND IF THE
DECISION ON COUNCIL IS NOT TO ISSUE THE DEBT, GUESS WHAT, WE
HAVEN'T ALREADY ISSUED THE DEBT.
WE JUST HAVE A LINE OF CREDIT.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I PUT A LINE OF CREDIT COMING
UP LATER THIS FISCAL YEAR.
SO WE HAD THAT FLEXIBILITY MOVING FORWARD.
11:57:33AM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I SUPPORT THAT.
I THINK IT'S GREAT FISCAL MANAGEMENT.
I SAW COUNCILMAN CARLSON FIRST AND THEN COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
11:57:41AM >>BILL CARLSON:
I AGREE WITH CHAIR CLENDENIN.
FIRST OF ALL, I SUPPORT THE CONVENTION CENTER AS AN IDEA OF
SUPPORTING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN OUR AREA.
BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AS AN ENTERPRISE, AND WE
HAD AN UPDATE A FEW MONTHS AGO.
AS I RECALL, IT SEEMED KIND OF RUSHED AND DEFENSIVE.
AS IF WE WERE TRYING TO SHUT DOWN THE CONVENTION CENTER OR
SOMETHING.
AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS LOOK AT IT AS AN ENTERPRISE TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT ELSE WE COULD DO TO MAKE IT MORE SUCCESSFUL.
ULTIMATELY, THAT IS UP TO THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT IF WE ARE

INCREASING DEBT, MAXING CREDIT CARDS OUT ON THE CITY.
IF WE ARE GOING TO ADD MORE DEBT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT
ELSE COULD WE HAVE REPLACED SINCE THAT SHOULD BE AN
ENTERPRISE THAT SHOULD POTENTIALLY BE GENERATING REVENUE.
I KNOW THERE ARE ECONOMIC IMPACT NUMBERS.
I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL TO SHOOT HOLES IN ECONOMIC IMPACT
NUMBERS.
I DON'T BELIEVE IN THEM.
THERE IS A DIRECT IMPACT OF ACTUALLY HOW MUCH IS COMING IN,
THEN THEY USE MULTIPLIERS AND OTHER HOCUS-POCUS TO SHOW
THINGS.
IN MY DAY JOB, I WORKED WITH OTHER CITIES AND COMMUNITIES,
HELPING TURN AROUND PUBLIC FACILITIES SO THEY COULD BECOME
PROFITABLE.
SOMETIMES THERE ARE BASIC THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO DO.
AND THERE IS A TRADE-OFF BETWEEN WHAT IS THE PUBLIC GOOD YOU
ARE TRYING TO GENERATE VERSUS WHETHER IT COULD BE
SELF-FUNDING.
BUT A LOT OF TIMES, JUST CERTAIN BASIC CHOICES OF MOVING ONE
LINE TO ANOTHER MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AN EXAMPLE, ONE FACILITY I WORKED WITH HAD EVENTS ON
WEEKENDS THAT DIDN'T PAY VERY MUCH, AND DURING THE WEEK,
THEY HAD WEDDINGS.
BY TAKING THE LOW PRICE EVENTS OFF THE WEEKENDS, WE WERE
ALLOWED TO HAVE WEDDINGS ON THE WEEKENDS THAT MADE IT

PROFITABLE WITHIN A FEW MONTHS.
THAT IS AN OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION FOR A SMALLER FACILITY,
BUT THE QUESTION IS, REALLY WHAT IS A SUBSIDY, WHAT SHOULD A
SUBSIDY BE TO A CONVENTION CENTER?
WHAT IS THE PUBLIC GOOD THAT IT'S GENERATING?
AND ARE THERE OTHER REVENUE SOURCES.
ANYWAY, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU.
I WISH WE WOULD PUT THE CONVENTION CENTER BACK.
I WON'T MAKE THE MOTION, MAYBE THE CHAIR WOULD.
I WISH WE WOULD PUT THE CONVENTION CENTER AS AN ENTERPRISE
BACK ON A WORKSHOP SO WE COULD HAVE A ROBUST DISCUSSION,
AGAIN, NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD SHUT DOWN THE CONVENTION
CENTER OR NOT SUPPORT IT, BUT WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE
COULD DO TO GENERATE MORE REVENUE SO IT'S MORE
SELF-SUSTAINING.
THANK YOU.
12:00:05PM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I BELIEVE, SIR, WE'RE COMING TO COUNCIL IN
APRIL ON THE VERY ISSUE.
12:00:11PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MAYBE I MISSPOKE OR MAYBE DIDN'T CAPTURE.
I ACTUALLY DON'T SUPPORT AS AN ENTERPRISE FUND.
I DO SUPPORT THE CITY HERE.
I WOULD DISAGREE.
YOU LOOK AT ALL THE HOTEL ROOMS WE FILL, WE GET HUGE AMOUNT
OF HOTEL TAXES FROM, THERE ARE MANY, MANY ECONOMIC BENEFITS
TO HAVING A CONVENTION CENTER IN A TOWN NOW, BALANCING THAT

OUT.
AND YOU HAVE TO -- WHERE IS THAT SWEET SPOT BETWEEN PUBLIC
INVESTMENT AND THEN THAT RETURN ON THAT INVESTMENT?
I THINK WE COULD HAVE A REALLY GOOD INTELLECTUAL DEBATE ON
THAT.
I THINK THE CONVENTION CENTER HAS A TREMENDOUS INDIRECT
ECONOMIC IMPACT, JUST LIKE MANY OF OUR PUBLIC FACILITIES --
CHARLIE MIRANDA -- OUR PUBLIC FACILITIES.
THE INDIRECT ECONOMIC IMPACTS.
[ LAUGHTER ]
I HAD TO DO THE DRIVE-BY.
YOU DO HAVE TO BALANCE.
HOW MUCH -- HOW MUCH -- HOW MUCH VALUE TO WE GET.
HOW MANY JOBS CREATED IN THE HOTELS?
THE CATERING, I MEAN, ALL THE DIFFERENT SERVICES THAT ARE
PROVIDED.
YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC EXPOSURE AND THE PR FOR THE CITY OF
TAMPA WITH THE EVENTS THAT OCCUR HERE.
I THINK THE SAME THING WITH ALL THAT.
EVERY TIME -- EVERY TIME WE MAKE A DECISION TO INVEST PUBLIC
MONEY INTO ONE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, YOU HAVE TO
BALANCE ALL OF THAT OUT OF WHAT IS THE BIGGER ECONOMIC
IMPACT.
I GO BACK TO SANDY FREEDMAN'S DECISION TO PUT THE AQUARIUM
AND PUBLIC INVESTMENT IN THE AQUARIUM IN CHANNELSIDE.

SO MANY PEOPLE CRITICIZED HER AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME, BUT
YOU LOOK AT WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
BETWEEN THE AQUARIUM AND STREETCAR, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF
INVESTMENT IN THE CITY OF TAMPA BECAUSE OF THIS CATALYST PUT
INTO THE CITY.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS DONE WHAT TRULY BETWEEN DOWNTOWN
AND WATER STREET AND YBOR CITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WHAT
LOOKS TO BE A DE MINIMIS AMOUNT OF PUBLIC INVESTMENT FOR
RETURN ON INVESTMENT.
12:02:15PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THANK YOU.
I REALLY THINK THIS WEEK IS A GREAT WEEK, MAYBE THIS
WEEKEND, TO PULL UP THE C.I.P.
WE HAVE A GREAT EVENING WORKSHOP COMING UP NEXT TUESDAY
NIGHT, MARCH 3, WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FISCAL YEAR
'27 BUDGET.
WE'RE INVITING THE PUBLIC TO COME TELL US WHAT THEY WANT
FUNDED FOR THE '27 BUDGET.
AND THEN COUNCIL IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT IT'S A TIME TO BRUSH OFF THE C.I.P.
KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THE '26 C.I.P. BECAUSE IN IT, IT HAS
A PROJECTION FOR THE FIVE YEARS, SO WE CAN ALL LOOK AT '27,
SEE WHAT THE PROJECTION IS AND DISCUSS IT.
I THINK IT IS A PERFECTLY USEFUL TIME TO DO THAT.
I WANTED TO MAKE A PLUG FOR THAT.
I'LL PLUG IT ALSO AT THE END.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S ON PEOPLE'S RADAR, THAT IS NEXT
TUESDAY NIGHT.
12:03:12PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
12:03:12PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
SINCE THE CONVENTION CENTER HAS BEEN
BROUGHT UP, LITTLE HISTORY ABOUT THAT PLACE, WHEN IT WAS
BUILT, IT WAS BUILT WITHOUT A CONVENTION HOTEL NEAR IT.
NOW, THAT'S LIKE HAVING A SWIMMING POOL WITHOUT WATER.
SO WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS WHEN THESE THINGS COME ABOUT, YOU
SAY, WELL, WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED?
WE WERE LOSING OUR -- ON THAT STUFF.
UNTIL MAYOR GRECO WORKED A DEAL WITH THE MAYOR WHY NOT,
WEREN'T IN THE TOP 100.
THAT HOTEL, THE MARRIOTT, NOT THE WATERSIDE, THE ONE FACING
NORTH, JUST SOUTHEAST OF THE CONVENTION CENTER.
THAT HOTEL, THE ORIGINAL MARRIOTT DOWNTOWN BROUGHT IN,
SPURRED THE DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER HOTELS COMING ABOUT.
WE ARE NOT AN A CLASS CONVENTION CENTER.
DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE BAD.
IT TALKS ABOUT SQUARE FOOTAGE.
WE ARE A B, ABOUT 220,000 OR SO SQUARE FOOT.
CAN'T COMPETE WITH CHICAGO OR LAS VEGAS.
THEY HAVE A.
MILLION, MILLION AND A HALF SQUARE FOOT EACH ONE.
WHAT HAPPENS HERE, THIS CONVENTION THROUGH INDIVIDUALS LIKE
VISIT TAMPA BAY AND OTHERS, WE HAVE BECOME SOMETHING WE WERE

NOT.
LET ME EXPLAIN THAT REAL QUICK.
WE WERE CIGAR CITY.
MANUFACTURERS, I DON'T KNOW, 15, 20 THOUSAND PEOPLE WORKING
IN CIGAR FACTORIES.
WE WERE AMERICAN CAN, ALUMINUM CANS, WE MADE MORE CANS THAN
ANYBODY IN THE WORLD.
NONE OF THOSE ARE HERE NOW.
WE HAVE TRANSFORMED FROM SOMETHING THAT WE WERE TO MORE OF A
TOURIST AREA THAT WE ARE.
THERE WAS NO AQUARIUM.
THERE WAS A ZOO, BUT IT WAS A VERY MINOR, SMALL ZOO.
IT WASN'T LIKE ZOO TAMPA IS NOW.
SO WE HAVE AN ERA, WE TRANSFORMED OURSELVES TO SOMETHING WE
WERE NOT AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THE TOURISTS IN TOWN.
IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE TOURISTS, WOULDN'T HAVE THE CIT TAX.
WHO WOULD YOU CHARGE?
YOURSELF?
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
WE HAVE TRANSFORMED THE CITY.
IT'S NOT EASY TO DO THAT, AT THE SAME TIME GROWTH POPULATION
EXPLOSION AND MANY OTHER THINGS THAT COME ABOUT.
SO WE'RE DOING THE BEST WE CAN.
I AM NOT AGAINST ANYTHING OR EVERYTHING, NOR AM I FOR
EVERYTHING.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
12:05:22PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU, MR. MIRANDA.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
12:05:26PM >>BILL CARLSON:
REMIND MR. MIRANDA, NOT ONLY DID WE HAVE THE
CIGAR INDUSTRY, MORE THAN 200 YEARS, WE HAD HORSE RACING IN
TAMPA.
12:05:34PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THAT'S HOW I MADE A GOOD LIVING.
12:05:36PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
LEGAL OR ILLEGAL.
LET'S MOVE ON.
12:05:38PM >>MICHAEL PERRY:
MIKE CAN I HAVE THE PRESENTATION BACK UP?
MR. ROGERO WILL BE BACK AFTER HE GETS DONE WITH A QUICK
BREAK.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE LEFT OFF.
THIS IS THE FUTURE, CURRENT AND POTENTIAL PRINCIPAL.
DENNIS WENT THROUGH THIS.
YOU SEE THE BIG SPIKE IN '29, ONCE WE PAY OFF THE SOLID
WASTE, THE BANK NOTE THAT WE TOOK OUT FOR THE WASTE TO
ENERGY PLANT.
WE SORT OF SMOOTH OUT IN THE OUT YEARS, GOING OUT TO 2063.
2063 IS 30 YEARS AFTER THE LAST YEAR OF THE PROJECTED CASH
FLOW.
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THAT, HEY, THIS IS JUST A PROJECTION.
WE SAT DOWN WITH CONTRACT ADMIN, AND WE SAID, WHAT CAN WE
PHYSICALLY DO?
PART OF THE REASON WE HAD IN HERE TO GO OVER THE C.I.P. IS

REINFORCE THE DEBT SCHEDULE HERE.
WITH THAT, I'LL GO QUICK OVER STORMWATER FINANCING.
AT THIS TIME, THERE ARE NO FUTURE STORMWATER DEBT BEING
CONSIDERED AT THIS TIME.
AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THAT IN 2016, WE ESTABLISHED THE
STORMWATER IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, ABOUT A QUARTER BILLION
DOLLARS.
IT LEVIED A NON-AD VALOREM ASSESSMENT -- I ALWAYS GET THE
TWO NORTHERN ROADS -- NOW I'M BLANKING ON THE TWO NORTHERN
ROADS.
FOWLER.
THANK YOU.
SO ALL PROPERTY -- GENERALLY ALL PROPERTY SOUTH OF FOWLER,
EXCLUDE SOME LIKE MACDILL AIR FORCE BASE AND TAMPA
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.
WE HAVE THREE DEBT SERVICES OUT THERE.
THREE BOND DEALS WE ISSUED IN 2018, 2021, AND 2023.
AND ALL THE DEBT WILL BE PAID OFF BY 2046, WHICH IS WHEN THE
SERVICE ASSESSMENT IS SCHEDULED TO END.
LIKE I SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE
ANY MORE STORMWATER DEBT.
YOU CAN SEE LEVEL PAYMENT FOR THE STORMWATER PROGRAM AT
ABOUT 11 TO 12 MILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY.
WITH THAT, I'LL CALL UP WILL REED FROM FORD AND ASSOCIATES
TO TALK ABOUT WATER FINANCING AND THE PIPES PROGRAM.

12:08:09PM >> GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
MY NAME IS WILL REED WITH FORD AND ASSOCIATES.
MUNICIPAL ADVISOR FOR WATER AND WASTEWATER SYSTEMS.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY NEW DEBT SINCE THE LAST TIME WE GAVE YOU
THE PRESENTATION LAST YEAR.
THIS WILL BE PRETTY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SAW BEFORE.
12:08:30PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
BREEZE THROUGH IT.
12:08:32PM >>WILL REED:
I'LL TRY AND SPEAK QUICKLY.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THE WATER AND WASTEWATER SYSTEM COMPRISE A
BULK OF THE CITY'S DEBT.
BACK IN THE 2010s, THE CITY COMMISSIONED A COMPREHENSIVE
LONG-RANGE STUDY TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT OUR SYSTEM WOULD
NEED AND WHETHER OUR EXISTING RATES COULD SUPPORT THOSE
NEEDS.
THE STUDY CONFIRMED WE REQUIRED A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM AND CORRESPONDING ADJUSTMENTS TO
THE RATE STRUCTURE.
THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT EVEN AFTER THE INCREASES, TAMPA'S
WATER AND WASTEWATER RATES REMAIN SIGNIFICANTLY BELOW PEER
SYSTEMS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
WE'RE FUNDING THE PROGRAM THROUGH A PRUDENT BLEND OF PAY AS
YOU GO CASH AND BOND PROCEEDS.
I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY UPDATING BOTH THE
WATER AND WASTEWATER MASTER PLAN TO ENSURE THAT THE SYSTEM
IS SUFFICIENT TO MEET THE CITY'S ONGOING NEEDS.

ON THE CREDIT SIDE, THE WATER AND WASTEWATER SYSTEM CARRIES
THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE TRIPLE A RATINGS FROM S&P, MOODY'S AND
FITCH, A FEAT MATCHED BY VERY FEW UTILITIES IN THE COUNTRY.
THE RATING STRENGTH TRANSLATES DIRECTLY TO LOWER BORROWING
COSTS AND SIGNIFICANT COVENANT FLEXIBILITY FOR THE CITY.
TO DATE COMPLETED THREE MAJOR ISSUES UNDER PIPES PROGRAM,
2020 As, 271 MILLION, 2022 A AND Bs ALMOST 300 MILLION.
24 FOR 231 MILLION.
LOOKING FORWARD, AS THE COMMISSION IS AWARE, WE IDENTIFIED
THE NEXT ROUND OF FINANCING NEEDS TO KEEP THE SYSTEM
RELIABLE AND RESILIENT.
THESE INCLUDE A $20 MILLION STATE REVOLVING FUND LOAN THAT
WE'LL DISCUSS IN A MOMENT AND FIVE ADDITIONAL POTENTIAL BOND
ISSUES TOTALING ROUGHLY 764 MILLION SPREAD ACROSS THE NEXT
SEVERAL YEARS.
THESE ARE ALREADY BUILT IN THE CURRENT RATE MODEL.
SO NO FURTHER RATE PRESSURE IS ANTICIPATED BEYOND WHAT THE
COUNCIL APPROVED.
I DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT THESE ISSUES WON'T BE ISSUED
UNTIL YOU NEED THE MONEY.
THE PLAN HAS TRIED TO BE CONSERVATIVE BY ANTICIPATING MORE
FREQUENT ISSUES THAN WE HAVE ACTUALLY GONE THROUGH AND SEEN
WHEN THAT PLAN WAS PUT IN PLACE WE EXPECTED AN ISSUE A YEAR.
WE'RE ONLY SPENDING THE MONEY AS FAST AS WE CAN GO THROUGH,
NOT BORROWING MONEY BEFORE WE NEED THE MONEY TO GO THROUGH

AND ACCOMPLISH THOSE PROJECTS.
ON THE SRF LOAN SIDE, ONE OF THOSE NEAR TERM TOOLS IS A
STATE REVOLVING LOAN.
THIS ITEM WILL COME BEFORE THE COUNCIL ON THURSDAY.
THIS WILL CONSIST OF AUTHORIZATION TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION,
JUST THE APPLICATION, FOR A $20 MILLION LOAN FROM THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION UNDER THE
DRINKING WATER FACILITIES PROGRAM.
SRF LOANS ARE AMONG THE LOWEST COST FINANCINGS AVAILABLE.
THEY ARE LOW INTEREST.
PRINCIPAL FORGIVENESS OPPORTUNITIES AND REPAYMENT THAT
DOESN'T START UNTIL THE PROJECT IS COMPLETE.
THIS LOAN IN PARTICULAR IS GOING TO BE AN UPGRADE TO THE
PERMANENT HIGH CAPACITY WATER INTERCONNECT BETWEEN TAMPA BAY
WATER, THE BIDIRECTIONAL CONNECTION WILL ALLOW US TO PUSH OR
PULL WATERS NEEDED, DRAMATICALLY STRENGTHENING THE REGIONAL
RESILIENCE AND MUTUAL AID CAPABILITIES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT
GIVEN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH RECENT HURRICANES.
ONE OF THE MAJOR REASONS -- ONE OF THE MAJOR IMPETUSES FOR
THE REQUEST IS THE LOAN COMES WITH 50% FORGIVENESS.
CITY WOULD BORROW $20 MILLION AND REPAY 10.
IT'S HARD TO PASS UP FREE MONEY.
GOING THROUGH, AS SNAPSHOT, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE CITY'S WATER
AND WASTEWATER DEBT IS STRUCTURED TO PROVIDE LEVEL ANNUAL
PAYMENTS CURRENTLY.

THIS SHOWS THE PRINCIPAL ROLL-OFF.
AS YOU CAN SEE, IT IS A STEADY PREDICTABLE DECLINE IN
PRINCIPAL OUTSTANDING EACH YEAR THROUGH 2057 AS WE PAY DOWN
THE BONDS AND SRF LOANS.
NO SPIKES AND NO SURPRISES.
THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE FUTURE ISSUANCES THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED
EARLIER, AND IT ANTICIPATES FOLLOWING THE SAME STRUCTURE
PROVIDING WITH LEVEL OVERALL DEBT STRUCTURE.
GOING THROUGH HERE, THIS OVERLAYS THOSE TWO CHARTS, THE
EXISTING DEBT AND THE FUTURE DEBT.
AS MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS ALL IN KEEPING WITH THE
LONG-RANGE PLAN IMPLEMENTED IN 2010s.
THE CITY PLANNED THE WORK AND WE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH
PLANNING.
THANK YOU.
12:12:52PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
I HAVE A QUESTION.
THIS DEBT ISSUANCE ANTICIPATES BUILDING CAPACITY FOR
ANTICIPATED NEEDS?
FOR WATER?
12:13:04PM >>WILL REED:
CORRECT.
THE CURRENT MASTER PLAN THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE IN THE 2010s
IS WORKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN MEET THE NEEDS OF THE
CITY GOING FORWARD.
WE'RE BEGINNING WORK ON A NEW MASTER PLAN TO GO THROUGH AND

ENSURE THAT ANYTHING THAT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN, WE'RE
TAKING INTO ACCOUNT.
WE'RE TRYING TO BE PROACTIVE WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING.
YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THE RATINGS ACHIEVED FROM MOODY'S THEY
ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE MORE PROACTIVE THAN MANY
OF YOUR PEERS IN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO HANDLE
YOUR CITY.
12:13:38PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
EXCELLENT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
12:13:40PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
JUST VERY QUICKLY, I BELIEVE THE WATER
DEPARTMENT HERE, KUDOS -- WE HAVE ABOUT 38,000 WATER
DEPARTMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
I THINK TAMPA IS ONE OF ONLY FIVE.
YOU CAN CORRECT ME, IF YOU WILL, IF I'M WRONG, THAT HAS A
TRIPLE A BOND RATING.
12:13:58PM >>WILL REED:
HAVE TO GO BACK AND SEE.
12:13:59PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
NOT THAT MANY.
AM I CORRECT?
12:14:03PM >> SINGLE DIGITS.
12:14:05PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I'LL GIVE YOU $5 FOR THAT.
THANK YOU.
12:14:08PM >>WILL REED:
YOU SHOULD BE VERY PROUD OF REALLY FROM COUNCIL
ON DOWN.
IT IS VERY RARE TO BE IN THIS POSITION, NOT JUST ON YOUR

ISSUER RATINGS, BUT ALSO THE ENTERPRISE BEING --
12:14:22PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
AND THE QUALITY OF THE WATER IS PERFECTO.
12:14:25PM >>WILL REED:
I LIKE IT.
12:14:26PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN CARLSON, YOU HAD A QUESTION.
12:14:29PM >>BILL CARLSON:
YEAH, JUST REAL FAST.
I'M VERY EXCITED TO HEAR THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A TWO WAY
HOOKUP WITH TAMPA BAY WATER.
JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, THE CITY WAS TRYING TO CHANGE THE
STATE LEGISLATION TO PULL THE CITY OF TAMPA OUT OF TAMPA BAY
WATER.
AND IT'S ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF REGIONAL COOPERATION IN
THE WORLD.
THANK THE ADMINISTRATION FOR ENDING THAT DISCUSSION FROM
BEFORE AND WORKING ON A COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT.
IT JUST HELPS EVERYBODY.
THANK YOU.
12:15:01PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT CONTRACT, THAT
CONTRACT NEVER ENDS.
IT'S A CONTRACT THAT WAS ACCEPTED BY THE PUBLIC WITHOUT THEM
KNOWING ABOUT IT, THAT CONTRACT ENDS IN 2032 I BELIEVE, AND
THERE'S NO EVER GETTING OUT OF NOTHING BECAUSE IT DOESN'T
HAVE A TIME.
IT HAS A TIME, BUT IF YOU HAVE A DEBT, YOU CAN'T GET OUT.
TO ME, UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
YOU'LL ALWAYS HAVE A DEBT WHEN YOU ARE IN THE WATER

DEPARTMENT.
YOU GOT TO BE BRAIN DEAD TO FEEL YOU WANT TO GET OUT.
THAT'S NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, TAMPA IS THE LEAST ONE THAT USES THE WATER, NOT
THAT IT'S ANY BAD WATER, IT'S NOT.
ONE THAT PRODUCES 82 MILLION GALLONS A DAY, NO OTHER COMPANY
OTHER THAN TAMPA BAY WATER.
I'M NOT AGAINST TAMPA BAY WATER.
WE'VE BEEN THEIR GOOD PARTNER AND WORKING A FEW THINGS TO
DO, SO THE WATER DEPARTMENT AND THEM TALKING ABOUT IT,
THAT'S FOR ANOTHER DAY.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE USEFUL TO US -- WE BUY FROM
THEM AND THEY BUY FROM US.
WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
12:15:59PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
LET'S TALK SOLID WASTE.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK LOVES TALKING ABOUT SOLID WASTE.
12:16:10PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AT ONE THAT I HAVE TO
LEAVE FOR.
12:16:12PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A HARD STOP AT ONE.
12:16:17PM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
I DO APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.
I DID NOT ANTICIPATE IT WOULD GO THIS LONG.
12:16:22PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I WOULD LOVE TO TELL YOU THAT IT IS
INTERESTING.

12:16:26PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT IS.
THIS IS SO COOL.
12:16:29PM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THAT HURTS.
12:16:30PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
NERDS.
NHL, NFL, THOSE ARE INTERESTING.
12:16:42PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED THERE IS ABOUT
THE WALLET.
12:16:53PM >> BRING THE PRESENTATION BACK.
12:16:54PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.
12:16:58PM >> GOOD MORNING AGAIN.
MOLLY CLARK WITH PRAG.
IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE
OUTSTANDING DEBT OF THE SOLID WASTE SYSTEM.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE $65 MILLION IN OUTSTANDING DEBT.
THIS IS IN THE FORM OF A DRAW ON A VARIABLE RATE LINE OF
CREDIT FROM BANK OF AMERICA.
IN TOTAL, THERE ARE TWO SHORT-TERM FACILITIES OUTSTANDING ON
THE SOLID WASTE SYSTEM.
THERE IS A $120.5 MILLION LOAN.
THIS WAS CLOSED IN JUNE 2024.
THIS LOAN IS SECURED BY NON-AD VALOREM REVENUES.
IN JUNE 24, AT THE SAME TIME THIS LOAN WAS CLOSED, COUNCIL
ADOPTED NEW SOLID WASTE RATES WHICH WENT INTO EFFECT IN
OCTOBER OF 2024.
THE REASON THIS LOAN WAS DONE AS NON-AD VALOREM LOAN, AT THE

SAME TIME, SOLID WASTE RATES WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUFFICIENT
TO SUPPORT THE DEBT.
SO THAT LOAN IS OUTSTANDING UNDER THE NON-AD VALOREM PLEDGE.
THE SECOND PIECE, THE BANK OF AMERICA LINE OF CREDIT IS
OUTSTANDING UNDER THE SOLID WASTE REVENUE PLEDGE BECAUSE
THAT PIECE WAS NOT CLOSED UNTIL JANUARY OF 2025.
BOTH OF THESE WE ANTICIPATE REFINANCING TO A LONG-TERM SOLID
WASTE REVENUE BOND ISSUE LIKELY IN LATE 2027, EARLY 2028.
THIS WILL TAKE THAT SHORT-TERM DEBT AND REFINANCE IT OVER A
30-YEAR PERIOD BACKED ONLY BY THE SOLID WASTE SYSTEM RATES.
SO LOOKING AT WHAT WE EXPECT THAT TO LOOK LIKE GOING
FORWARD, THERE IS IN FISCAL '26, 27, 28, THAT IS SORT OF THE
CURRENT COUPLE OF YEARS GOING FORWARD, JUST INTEREST DUE ON
THE EXISTING NON-AD VALOREM LOAN AND THE EXISTING BANK OF
AMERICA LINE OF CREDIT.
GOING FORWARD IN 2028, THAT WOULD BE THE POINT AT WHICH
THESE BOTH ARE REFINANCED LONG-TERM SOLID WASTE REVENUE
BONDS, OUT THROUGH 2057, 30-YEAR BOND ISSUE.
WITH THAT, HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS ON ASSUMPTIONS OR
OTHERWISE RELATED TO THE DEBT.
12:19:14PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHY WAIT TO ROLL THIS TOGETHER FOR
LONG-TERM DEBT?
WHY THE DELAY -- WHY IS THE -- ARE YOU ANTICIPATING THE
MARKET CONDITIONS?
WHY WAIT UNTIL 2027-28?

12:19:27PM >>MOLLY CLARK:
THERE ARE PROJECT NEEDS THAT I BELIEVE ARE
STILL UNDERWAY.
AND HAVING THE RATES KIND OF SEASONED, THE RATES BECAME
EFFECTIVE IN OCTOBER 2024.
THIS GIVES THE CITY A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO OPERATE ITS
SOLID WASTE SYSTEM UNDER THOSE RATES SO THAT BY THE TIME WE
GO TO THE PUBLIC MARKETS AND WE'RE ISSUING LONG-TERM BONDS,
THE CREDIT RATING AGENCIES WILL LOOK AT YOU, POTENTIAL
INVESTORS CAN LOOK AT THE CITY, HEY, THIS SYSTEM IS UP AND
RUNNING, RATES ARE GOOD TO GO.
WE'RE COVERING WHAT WE ESTIMATE THE DEBT SERVICE WILL LOOK
LIKE, AND THAT SORT OF HELPS INVESTORS, IT HELPS THE CREDIT
RATING AGENCIES UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE REALLY LOOKING AT.
12:20:09PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHAT A GREAT EXPLANATION FOR SOMEBODY WHO
HAS A HARD TIME GRASPING THESE CONCEPTS.
THANK YOU.
I GOT THAT A HUNDRED PERCENT.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
12:20:17PM >>BILL CARLSON:
COMMENT FROM MR. ROGERO.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET UP.
BUT I THINK MAYBE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE IN ANOTHER
ITERATION.
I APPRECIATE THE TRANSPARENCY ON THIS AND I APPRECIATE THE
TIME DISCUSSING IT.
I THINK IT'S NECESSARY FOR THE PUBLIC TO LOOK INTO IT.

THE PUBLIC IS NATURALLY CONCERNED ABOUT DEBT.
WHEN THEY SEE NUMBERS LIKE THAT OUT OF CONTEXT, SAY, SEEMS
LIKE A LOT OF MONEY.
THE CONTEXT THAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR LOOKS AT IS A PNL.
A LOT OF DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THAT ON THE CITY'S, ON THE
GOVERNMENT SIDE.
BUT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL BY ENTERPRISE FUND WHEN PRESENTING
THIS TO SHOW THE CONTEXT AND ALSO THE RATIOS, KIND OF
SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SHOWED THE CITY OVERALL.
LIKE WHAT IS THE DEBT TO REVENUE RATIO FOR SOLID WASTE AND
HOW DOES IT COMPARE TO OTHER UTILITIES AND OTHER MARKETS AND
THE SAME THING WITH WATER, WASTEWATER, ET CETERA.
JUST SO WE CAN SEE THE CONTEXT OF THE REVENUES, BECAUSE I
THINK WITH THAT CONTEXT, IT WOULD HELP THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND
IT, BUT ALSO NOT BE AS SCARED BY THE NUMBERS.
THANK YOU.
12:21:25PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
12:21:26PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THIS, THAT SOLID WASTE, PRODUCE ENOUGH
ENERGY FOR 15,000 HOMES EVERY DAY.
WE WERE SELLING IT LONG TIME AGO TO TECO WITH A PARTNERSHIP
WORKING VERY GOOD.
BUT SUCH A GOOD DEAL TWO FORMER COUNCIL MEMBERS WANTED TO BE
HEROES AND SO FORTH AND SO ON, WHEN IT WENT UP TO
TALLAHASSEE FOR REVIEW, IT WAS SUCH A GOOD DEAL WE HAD TO

CANCEL THE DEAL AND SELL IT TO SEMINOLE ELECTRIC FOR LESS
MONEY BECAUSE WE WERE CHARGING THEM FOR THE TRANSMISSION OF
THE LINES AND THE COST OF BUYING THE ENERGY FOR THEM.
AND THE GOVERNMENT IN TALLAHASSEE SAID TOO GOOD OF A DEAL
FOR US.
WHICH I'M FINE WITH.
HOWEVER, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE THINGS AND YOU HEAR THIS
REFUSE TO ENERGY PLACE, WE HAD INVESTED OVER 150 MILLION OR
SO I FORGET WHAT IT WAS.
CLOSE TO THAT FIGURE, IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN WORKING TODAY.
THE GENERATOR WAS SO OLD THAT IT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD A
CRANKCASE TO CREATE THE ENERGY.
THE BUILDING WAS FALLING APART.
YOU COULD SEE THE SKIES WHEN LOOKING AT THE WATER, TRYING TO
FIX THE WATER, THE GARBAGE THAT WAS COMING IN.
EVERYTHING WAS ROTTED OUT.
AND THIS -- IT WAS LEFT FOR YEARS.
SO WE'RE TAKING AND PUTTING IN WHAT WE'D BEEN TAKING OUT IN
CASH.
WE INVESTED IN THAT WATER, WASTE TO ENERGY.
INVESTED IN THE WATER DEPARTMENT.
INVESTED TO THE RECLAIMED GOING OUT TO CLEAN THE WATER OUT
TO THE BAY.
I WOULD SAY WE MADE ABOUT 400 TO $500 MILLION OR HALF A
BILLION DOLLARS IN THOSE THREE ENERGIES ALONE.

IF THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THAT, AND I'M SURE THEY DO,
BECAUSE WHEN THEY FLUSH THE TOILET, IT DOESN'T COME BACK
UNLESS THEY HAVE A PROBLEM UNDER THEIR HOUSE.
WE'VE DONE WHAT THE PUBLIC WANTS.
MADE IT SAFE.
AND EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN HERE, EVERYONE SAYS AFFORDABLE.
WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO?
STAY ON COURSE AND KEEP THE THINGS OPERATIONAL.
THESE ARE ENTERPRISE FUNDS THAT CREATE THEIR OWN MONEY IN A
WAY.
WE SELL AND MAKE MONEY FOR THE PUBLIC BY USING THAT REFUSE
TO ENERGY AND REDUCING THE COST OF OUR LIVES IN THE CITY OF
TAMPA.
I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY THAT WORKS IN THOSE THREE
DIVISIONS BECAUSE THEY DO ONE FANTASTIC JOB.
12:23:47PM >>MOLLY CLARK:
TO YOUR POINT, JUST TO SORT OF DRAW IN THE
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION PORTION OF TODAY'S PRESENTATION, IF
MY MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION PUT IN PLACE FOR THE REFURBISHMENT
OF THE WASTE TO ENERGY PLANT BECAUSE THE NEEDS WERE URGENT
AND THE CITY PAID FOR THAT OUT OF POCKET BECAUSE FINANCING
TAKES A WHILE TO GET IN PLACE.
WE HAD AN RFP OUT ON THE STREET AND WE WERE WAITING TO BRING
IN FINANCING BUT WITH THE REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION IN PLACE,
THE CITY WAS ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT FACILITY GOT MAINTAINED,

UPGRADED AND KEPT IN WORKING ORDER UNTIL THE FINANCING CAME
THROUGH.
IT WAS SORT OF A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHEN AND WHY A
REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION IS APPROPRIATE AND HOW IT WORKS.
12:24:33PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT WASTEWATER AND -- THAT CAPACITY.
12:24:44PM >>DENNIS ROGERO:
THIS LAST SECTION IS VERY BRIEF.
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I'M DOING IT.
COULD I HAVE THE PRESENTATION UP, PLEASE?
ALL RIGHT.
FINANCING CAPACITY.
DENNIS ROGERO, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
THANK YOU.
SO THAT IS THE PLAN.
IT'S BEEN A LONG BUILDUP, BUT WE BUILT IT UP TO EVERYTHING
WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING THAT RIGHT NOW IS PLANNED
TO DO.
SO WHAT IS THE CITY'S CAPACITY?
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?
YOU SEE IT RIGHT HERE.
TOTAL CAPACITY IN THE UPPER RIGHT, GOVERNMENTAL, LITTLE OVER
$2 BILLION.
AND WATER, WASTEWATER, ABOUT $1.7 BILLION.
IT'S ACTUALLY INCREASED JUST A LITTLE BIT SINCE THE LAST
TIME WE SHARED THIS WITH YOU.

NOW, I DO WANT TO MAKE VERY CLEAR, EVEN THOUGH WE PUT IT ON
THE SLIDE, THESE WILL CHANGE FOR ALL OF THE REASONS YOU SEE
THERE.
GOT TO MAINTAIN OUR CURRENT CREDIT RATINGS.
I THINK WE ARE DOING A FANTASTIC JOB OF THAT.
LIKE TO GET THAT LAST TRIPLE A, BUT WE'LL KEEP AT IT.
INTEREST RATES ARE GOING TO CHANGE.
MARKET AVAILABILITY OF THE DEBT IS GOING TO CHANGE.
PAYING OFF THE EXISTING DEBT, AND IT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE
LIST.
THIS IS A POINT IN TIME THAT WE CAN GIVE YOU AS TO OUR
CAPACITY.
AND IT IS SIGNIFICANT.
AND THEN AS YOU SEE ON THE FAR RIGHT, WE'VE GOT A COMBINED
POTENTIAL CAPACITY BASED ON WHAT WE'VE ALREADY ISSUED OF
$2.1 BILLION.
1.36 IN THE GOVERNMENTAL AND 800 MILLION IN THE WATER,
WASTEWATER.
I WANT TO STRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS.
THIS IS POTENTIAL.
NOBODY TO MY KNOWLEDGE IS ADVOCATING ISSUING DEBT OF THIS
MAGNITUDE.
BUT I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT -- AND I'VE SAID IT
BEFORE, BUT IT'S WORTH REITERATING, ALWAYS WORTH
REITERATING, JUST BECAUSE THE CITY HAS THE CAPACITY TO ISSUE

SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DEBT, DOES NOT MEAN THE CITY CAN AFFORD
TO ISSUE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DEBT.
AFFORDABILITY COMES DOWN TO THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL,
PRIORITIES, REVENUE FORECASTS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
SO I'M CERTAINLY NOT ADVOCATING THAT WE BORROW THIS FUNDING,
AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT IMPLYING THAT WE CAN AFFORD THIS
FUNDING, BUT IT IS A GOOD BAROMETER OF WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS
OF OUR DEBT STORY.
AND THERE YOU SEE IT IN GRAPHIC FORM.
THE LIGHT BLUE TO THE FAR RIGHT OF THE KEY IS THE AVAILABLE
DEBT CAPACITY.
SO THE CITY IS IN A VERY, VERY STRONG POSITION IN TERMS OF
POTENTIAL FUTURE DEBT.
BUT, AGAIN, IT'S A GREAT STORY, BUT IT'S A POINT IN TIME AND
I DON'T IMAGINE WE'RE GOING TO ADVOCATE ISSUING DEBT TO THIS
LEVEL.
THAT ENDS THE PRESENTATION, COUNCIL.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.
12:27:50PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I ANTICIPATE COUNCILMAN MIRANDA COMING,
SEES HOW MUCH DEBT CAPACITY, PROBABLY PROPOSE $1.2 BILLION
DEBT FOR A NEW STADIUM FOR THE TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS.
IS THAT CORRECT?
12:28:02PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
I WANT MORE THAN THAT.
[ LAUGHTER ]

12:28:05PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THAT'S ALL YOU CAN HAVE.
WEREN'T YOU PAYING ATTENTION?
THAT'S ALL YOU CAN HAVE.
12:28:12PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
[INAUDIBLE]
12:28:14PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ONE, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU STAFF AND ALL
OF OUR FINANCIAL ANALYSTS, SLASH, MARKET PEOPLE THAT CAME TO
HELP US TONIGHT -- OR TODAY TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
I MAKE JOKES ABOUT HOW BORING IT IS BECAUSE IT IS BORING.
IT IS THE TOOLS WE NEED TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR THE
CITY OF TAMPA AND THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE HERE AND FOR FUTURE
GROWTH.
I'M VERY MUCH APPRECIATIVE.
I APPRECIATE THE DETAIL OF THE DATA THAT'S PROVIDED.
IT DEFINITELY ANSWERED A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MY QUESTIONS
THAT I'VE HAD.
I'M SURE I'LL HAVE PLENTY MORE AND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF
THINGS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
12:28:58PM >>LUIS VIERA:
MOTION TO EXTEND THIS CONVERSATION ANOTHER
HOUR.
12:29:01PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
DENIED.
OUT OF ORDER.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON -- ANY QUESTIONS?
WE'RE GOOD.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

AGAIN, REMINDER, PUBLIC COMMENT IS JUST ABOUT THE
PRESENTATIONS YOU'VE HEARD TODAY.
THE TWO ITEMS THAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY.
YES, MA'AM.
START WITH YOUR NAME.
YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES.
12:29:26PM >> HI.
MY NAME IS MICHELLE MASTROTOTARO.
I HAVE A CONCERN ON THE WASTEWATER AND STORMWATER.
I HAVE A PROJECT THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED YET.
IT'S FUNDED, AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT YET.
SO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE, IF IT'S
BEEN FUNDED ALREADY, IT'S NOT BEEN DONE.
AND ALSO, THIS STORMWATER ISSUE RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE,
THEY PUT THIS SMALL PIPE IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE TO THE
PRESERVE, SO ALL THAT WATER, THE PIPE IS SO SMALL, I CAN'T
FORESEE, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE IF THEY ARE ALL DOING THEIR
JOB AND THEY GET TRIPLE As BECAUSE PORT TAMPA HAS BEEN
NEGLECTED.
I LIVE IN FEAR.
IT'S NOT FAIR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND I THINK SOMEONE NEEDS
TO START HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR STUFF.
BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON,
EVERYBODY ELSE IS GETTING HELP.
BUT PORT TAMPA HAS BEEN JUST NEGLECTED.

12:30:54PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
JUST REMEMBER, WE HAVE TO TIE THIS TO
DEBT.
TIE YOUR COMMENTS TO DEBT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS BONDING AND DEBT.
12:31:05PM >> THAT'S FUNDED.
WHEN IS THAT GOING TO BE FIXED?
12:31:09PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
APPRECIATE IT.
NEXT SPEAKER.
MAYOR OF WEST TAMPA.
12:31:18PM >> I NEED A CLARIFICATION.
6 AND 7 BEEN TAKEN OFF THE AGENDA.
DID YOU ALL GIVE A DATE?
12:31:27PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
OCTOBER.
12:31:29PM >> OCTOBER 2026?
12:31:34PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
12:31:35PM >> I CAN TAKE THIS FOLDER AND SET IT OVER HERE.
12:31:38PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BONDING --
12:31:45PM >> ITEMS 2 AND 3.
YOU PUT TOGETHER -- JOE ROBINSON, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
OLD SCAGLIONE HOUSE.
DENNIS ROGERO FOR HIS STAFF, HIS PRESENTATION, OF KEEPING
THE CITY IN GREAT FINANCIAL ORDER.
MANY CITIES AS YOU KNOW ARE GOING BANKRUPT THAT ARE SPENDING
MONEY FOOLISHLY AND SPENDING -- WE HAVE A BONDING CAPACITY

BUT HE SAY HE AIN'T USING IT BECAUSE NOT FISCAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
BEING A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE MYSELF, CHARLIE.
THE CIT.
THE CCNA BEFORE THIS, THE VERY FIRST ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS,
BEING THE CCNA EXPERT IN THE ROOM, BEING A LICENSED
PROFESSIONAL -- DEALT WITH CITY OVER 40, 50 YEARS, WITH
CCNA, AND HELPED THE LEGISLATURE DEVELOP IT DOWN THE ROAD
AND MODIFY IT AND KEEP UPDATING IT.
LET ME SAY THIS, MR. MUTTERBACK, HE'S DOING A GREAT JOB
SINCE WE GOT HIM IN THERE.
CLEAN UP A LOT OF NONSENSE AND A LOT OF CORRUPTION GOING
DOWN.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE SELECTING PROJECTS BASED ON
ABSTRACT, NOT JUST BASED ON QUALIFICATIONS.
VERY SUBJECTIVE.
DIRECT PURCHASING, SOMETHING THAT THE CITY DOES AND NEEDS TO
CONTINUE TO DO, BECAUSE WHY, IT SAVES TAXES.
SALES TAX THAT KIND OF TAX ON EQUIPMENT PURCHASES.
BUY THE EQUIPMENT NOW, KNOWING YOU PUT IT IN LATER, YOU
AVOID THE ESCALATION.
YOU AVOID THE COST THAT WILL INCREASE.
WE DO IT ALL THE TIME AT SCHOOL DISTRICT.
IT'S WHERE YOU SAVE MONEY.
THE MAYOR'S EXECUTIVE ORDER ON CCNA HAD A VERY LONG

INVOLVEMENT WITH IT, VERY HEATED DISCUSSION, AS IT CAME UP
FROM HANNA STREET.
WE GOT IT CLEANED UP.
THANK YOU, ADMINISTRATION.
IT'S WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.
CAN'T CONTINUE TO MOVE SOMETHING ALONG WITHOUT GOING BACK
AND LOOKING AT IT.
TOOK A LOT OF WHILE, A LOT OF INPUT.
I THANK THEM FOR CLEANING THAT UP ON CCNA SELECTION PROCESS.
SUCCESSION PLANNING AND THE CONSTRUCTION DEPARTMENT, VERY
CRUCIAL.
WE HAVE SENIOR PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE RETIRING, AND I
UNDERSTAND THEY ARE NOW DOING THE SUCCESSION FOR THAT.
MR. MUTTERBACK'S OFFICE.
FINALLY, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU ALL PUTTING 6 AND 7 DOWN
THE ROAD.
I COME HERE STACKED.
SINCE I'VE BEEN AUTHORIZED, I'LL MOVE ON.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
12:34:39PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU, MR. ROBINSON.
START WITH YOUR NAME.
YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES.
12:34:44PM >> GOOD AFTERNOON.
BISHOP MICHELLE B. PATTY.
FIRST OF ALL, I LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO COUNCILMAN MIRANDA

POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT WE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
MONEY AND BUILDING THINGS AND NOW NO ONE FORESEEN THE
TARIFFS BEING IMPOSED.
HOW MUCH THINGS ARE GOING TO BE.
FAIR OAKS WAS MENTIONED BECAUSE I MYSELF ALONG WITH JAY
JOHNSON ARE THE ONES THAT POINTED OUT THAT THAT CENTER NEED
TO BE DEALT WITH.
MR. JOE ROBINSON, HE POINTED OUT THE FACT THAT WE WERE IN A
DEATH TRAP.
NOW THAT CENTER BECAME A POLITICAL PAWN BETWEEN SOME COUNCIL
MEMBERS, THE STAFF, AND THE MAYOR.
SOME OF YOU ALL TRIED TO STOP THAT FROM GOING FORTH, AND WE
WANT TO THANK THE LATE COUNCILWOMAN GWEN HENDERSON, ALL OF
YOU WHO VOTED TO MOVE THAT PROJECT ALONG.
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT ALL THE MONEY THAT THE CITY SAVED BY
CONTINUING ON WITH THE PROJECT.
WE SEE WITH THE TARIFF TAX, THIS PROJECT MAYBE COST TWO TO
THREE TIMES MORE BECAUSE THE TARIFFS ARE AFFECTING THE
BUILDING MATERIAL, STEEL, WOOD, NAILS, EVERYTHING.
SO WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CONTRACTORS, I DON'T KNOW,
AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THE CONTRACTORS ARE GOING TO BE
IMPACTED BECAUSE OF THE TARIFF TAX.
IS THERE GOING TO BE MORE MONEY SPENT IF THE CONTRACT OVER
THERE TALKING ABOUT SKANSKA, IF THEY HAVE TO EAT THE
DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THINGS HAVE GONE UP.

LIKE TO THANK COUNCILWOMAN YOUNG, GOOD FRIEND DOREEN
COPELAND MILLER.
SHE PASSED AWAY FIGHTING FOR STREETS, SIDEWALKS TO BE BUILT.
SHE HAD DIFFICULTIES WALKING AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
IN EAST TAMPA THAT RIDE ON THESE SCOOTERS, THAT THERE IS NO
SIDEWALK.
THEY ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREETS.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HIT.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES.
I GUESS WE NEED TO KNOW WHEN THE DOLLARS ARE GOING TO
TRICKLE TO THAT COMMUNITY THAT HAS NOT RECEIVED THEIR
DOLLARS.
I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO THANK THE STAFF AND EVERYONE.
IT WAS LONG BUT IT WAS VERY ENLIGHTENING.
I LEARNED A LOT SITTING HERE TODAY ABOUT THE BUDGET AND
WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE BUDGET AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE
FORWARD TO GETTING THINGS DONE HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA.
SO ONCE AGAIN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROJECTS, LET'S NOT
LET POLITICS, PERSONAL THINGS INTERFERE WITH DOING WHAT'S IN
THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE AS WE SEE THINGS
GO UP, NOT DAILY, BUT HOURLY, GO BY THE FILLING STATION, IT
WAS ONE PRICE.
BY THE TIME YOU GO THIS EVENING, IT IS A WHOLE OTHER PRICE.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.
12:37:40PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU, BISHOP.

WE HEARD FROM THE SELF-ANOINTED MAYOR OF WEST TAMPA.
NOW THE SELF-ANOINTED MAYOR OF SOUTH OF GANDY.
12:37:52PM >> I ALWAYS LOVE TO COME TO THESE WORKSHOPS WHEN WE HAVE TWO
VERY, VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS AND IT TAKES LIKE THREE HOURS TO
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND HUNDRED PAGES OF PowerPoints.
PRETTY SIMPLE MATH PROBLEMS IN MY MIND.
BUT HEY.
GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION.
THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE WORK SHEETS.
THIS CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.
NOW, HERE IS THE THINK ABOUT THE WORK SHEET.
IF YOU GOOGLE IT, DOESN'T COME UP.
IF YOU GOOGLE IT, DOESN'T COME UP.
WHAT COMES UP WHEN YOU LOOK UP CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS
IS THIS WEBSITE RIGHT HERE.
THIS WEBSITE RIGHT HERE OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE STUFF
THAT'S ON THE SPREADSHEET.
SO WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO LEARN -- I MEAN, MR. -- ASKED ME
DURING THE MEETING, WHAT IS C.I.P.
WE HAD A LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROJECTS, TOOK ABOUT 15 MINUTES, WHAT'S C.I.P.?
SO WE'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF INFORMATION TODAY.
I FOR ONE, I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS, YOU CANNOT DIGEST ALL THIS.
IT WAS NOT IN OnBase, AND IT SHOULD BE GIVEN TO FOLKS
BEFOREHAND, NOT THE DAY OF.

IT NEEDS TO BE OUT THERE SO PEOPLE CAN DIGEST IT AND LOOK AT
IT.
IF YOU WANT TO CALL THIS THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PAGE, THEN
IT SHOULD INCLUDE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE
LOOKING FOR THIS INFORMATION.
PEOPLE DO LOOK AT THIS STUFF.
BUT IT'S STILL NOT THERE.
I HAD TO PULL IT FROM AN E-MAIL THAT HAGAR SENT TO ME A
COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
IT'S NOT THERE.
IF I WANT TO LOOK FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, I SHOULD
SEE ALL THIS INFORMATION THERE.
IN MY OPINION, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SHOULD BE BUILDING A
BUILDING, DIGGING HOLES IN THE GROUND AND IMPROVING OUR
COMMUNITY, AND THESE ELECTRICAL UPGRADES AND STUFF, YES, I
REALIZE THEY ARE EXPENSIVE, MAYBE THEY NEED TO HAVE THEIR
OWN CATEGORY, BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING MAINTENANCE
ON WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE, THAT'S NOT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AS
A RULE.
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE WORDS ARE.
BUT I JUST KNOW THAT I WANT TO SEE ALL OF THIS PUT INTO THIS
PAGE SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN SEE THAT.
EITHER THAT, OR WHEN YOU GOOGLE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE
CITY OF TAMPA, I WANT THIS PAGE TO COME UP SO THAT PEOPLE
CAN ACTUALLY READ ALL THE INFORMATION.

I'M JUST ASKING FOR ALL THE INFORMATION TO BE TOGETHER IN
ONE PLACE THAT IS ACCESSIBLE TO THE CITIZENS OF TAMPA.
THANK YOU.
12:40:23PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THANK YOU.
STEPHANIE, YOU DID NOT SAY YOUR NAME.
12:40:30PM >> I AM NOT STEPHANIE POYNOR.
12:40:34PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WHO ARE YOU TODAY?
SO THAT CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS FOR THIS WORKSHOP.
WE GOAT TO TALK ABOUT NEW BUSINESS.
LET'S START ON THE OTHER END.
COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
12:40:50PM >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
WE'VE HAD A GOOD MEETING.
I THINK WE DISCUSSED EVERYTHING WE HAD TO DISCUSS.
12:40:54PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
12:40:55PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
COUPLE OF ITEMS.
MOTION THAT THE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND CITY PLANNING STAFF
BE PRESENT TO MAKE A TEN MINUTE PRESENTATION ON APRIL 16,
2026 ON THE COMPLETED CITY OF TAMPA POST-DISASTER
REDEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WILL ALSO INCLUDE ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION IN PREPARATION FOR HURRICANE SEASON.
WE ALREADY CHECKED THE CALENDAR.
12:41:15PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN
MANISCALCO.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MIRANDA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
THAT WAS TEN MINUTES.
12:41:23PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
LAST ITEM IS FOR A CRA MEETING, BUT IT
IS A CITY COUNCIL THING.
IT'S AN E-MAIL FROM VINCE PARDO.
HE WAS WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA FOR YEARS, IF YOU ALL REMEMBER
HIM.
HE IS INVOLVED IN TAMPA SISTER CITIES, AND THEY ANTICIPATE
THAT THE MAYOR OF CHONCHONA, SICILY.
NOW, REMEMBER, OUR SISTER CITY IS REALLY THE REGION.
AGRIGENTO IS THE PROVINCE, AND THE CITY IS THERE.
HE WILL BE IN TAMPA FOR ITALIAN HERITAGE CELEBRATION AND
OTHER MEETINGS THE WEEK OF APRIL 8.
HE IS MEETING WITH MAYOR CASTOR.
MAYOR CASTOR HAS A TIME SLOT OF BETWEEN 9 A.M. AND 9:30 ON
THE MORNING OF THURSDAY, APRIL 9.
WOULD IT BE OKAY IF ONE OF TWO -- I WOULD LIKE THEM TO COME
IN HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
WORLD, THAT THEY COME IN AT AROUND 9:30 AND HAVE LIKE A
FIVE, TEN MINUTE BRIEF INTRODUCTION?
12:42:18PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IT IS A CRA MEETING.
WAS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO INVITING THE DIGNITARY AND MAYOR
CASTOR TO OUR CRA MEETING BETWEEN 9 AND 9:30 ON APRIL 9?
12:42:31PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NOT MAYOR CASTOR.

HE IS MEETING WITH THE MAYOR BEFORE.
HER TIME SLOT IS BETWEEN 9 AND 9:30.
12:42:39PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ANY OBJECTION?
12:42:40PM >>BILL CARLSON:
NO.
I THINK WE SHOULD SUGGEST FIVE MINUTES.
IF HE WANTS TO TAKE MORE, HE CAN.
12:42:45PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
9:30 A.M.
12:42:49PM >>BILL CARLSON:
DOES GUIDO HAVE A CONFLICT SINCE HE IS PART
SICILIAN?
12:42:54PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NO, BUT I MIGHT SPEAK ITALIAN.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE CLOSED CAPTIONING WILL GET IT.
12:42:59PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IT IS THE CRA, BUT KIND OF -- WE'LL GET
UNANIMOUS CONSENT.
WE'LL INVITE HIM.
ANYTHING ELSE?
12:43:09PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
NO, THAT'S IT.
12:43:11PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I BELIEVE YOUR CRA IS MEETING IN MARCH.
YOU CAN AFFIRM THAT AND PUT IT ON YOUR CRA AGENDA FOR APRIL.
BUT THAT'S HOW YOU KEEP THINGS SEPARATE.
12:43:23PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
I CAN DO THAT.
12:43:24PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A CONSENSUS NOW.
12:43:27PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THEY HAVE GOT TO EXTEND THE INVITATION.
NOT LIKE WE'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESCIND IT.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
12:43:32PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I'M DOING ONE OF MY VERY RARE THINGS.

I MOVE TO PRESENT A RESOLUTION TO ZOO TAMPA ON APRIL 16 IN
COUNCIL CHAMBERS HONORING THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF LUCY, THE
FLORIDA PANTHER AMBASSADOR.
12:43:49PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ARE WE GOING TO CRY?
12:43:51PM >>LUIS VIERA:
MAY I SAY SOMETHING?
I THINK I MAY HAVE BEEN THE FIRST COUNCIL MEMBER TO GIVE A
COMMENDATION TO AN ANIMAL.
SHADOW, WHO WAS A BOMB SNIFFING DOG IN AFGHANISTAN.
WE DID IT AT STATION 23.
YEAH, I THINK I WAS THE FIRST ONE.
WELL DONE.
THAT'S AWESOME.
12:44:09PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
WELL, I SERVE ON ZOO TAMPA BOARD NOW.
THAT'S MY MOTION.
12:44:15PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA I BELIEVE IT WAS.
12:44:22PM >>THE CLERK:
[INAUDIBLE]
12:44:24PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
IT'S A RESOLUTION.
12:44:31PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
PRESENTING A COMMENDATION.
12:44:33PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
UNDER PRESENTATIONS AND COMMENDATIONS.
12:44:35PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
12:44:37PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
BUT IN THE FORM OF A RESOLUTION.
I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE WANTING.

12:44:41PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES.
THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEY ASKED FOR.
12:44:44PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
ULTIMATELY I SUSPECT YOU CAN IN A
PRESENTATION, BUT BEFORE YOU MOVE -- BEFORE YOU DO THAT,
PROCEDURALLY, YOU'LL HAVE TO HAVE THE RESOLUTION.
I'LL PREPARE THE RESOLUTION FOR YOU.
YOU'LL HAVE IT IN ADVANCE.
THE CLERK WILL HAVE IT.
IT WILL BE ON THE AGENDA, AND YOU'LL HAVE TO TAKE PUBLIC
COMMENT IF THERE IS ANY AND THEN MOVE THE RESOLUTION.
12:45:03PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
PERFECT.
I CAN DO THAT.
12:45:05PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
UNDER COMMENDATIONS.
12:45:06PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES, UNDER COMMENDATIONS.
12:45:08PM >>LUIS VIERA:
[INAUDIBLE]
[ LAUGHTER ]
12:45:12PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I THINK MORE APPROPRIATE, COUNCILMAN
VIERA, IF YOU SAID YOU WOULD LIKE TO AWARD ALL THE ANIMALS
AT ZOO TAMPA.
ONE AT A TIME.
12:45:21PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IT IS APRIL 16 FOR THE PRESENTATION OF A
RESOLUTION.
12:45:24PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
CORRECT.
12:45:25PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
CORRECT.
PERFECT SYNOPSIS.

WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:45:32PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I DO ALSO WANT TO AGAIN PLUG THE BUDGET
DISCUSSION FOR FY '27.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE DONE THIS.
SO IT IS MARCH 3 AT 5:01 HERE IN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS.
I HAVE A COUPLE MORE MOTIONS.
SO I MOVE TO HAVE THE DOWNTOWN PARTNERSHIP PRESENT AN UPDATE
ON THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE TO BRING LARGE FORMAT
DIGITAL SIGNS TO THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.
THIS UPDATE SHOULD INCLUDE THE DRAFT DESIGN STANDARDS ON
APRIL 7, 2026.
12:46:06PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ARE THEY READY TO GO?
12:46:09PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I SAID AN UPDATE.
I DIDN'T ASK FOR COMPLETE.
JUST AN UPDATE.
12:46:14PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
MR. SHELBY.
12:46:18PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
JUST BRINGING AGAIN THE DATE IS.
12:46:24PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
APRIL 7.

12:46:24PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
APRIL 7.
GOING TO THAT DATE, WHERE ON THE AGENDA WOULD IT BE -- STAFF
REPORTS AND UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
APRIL 7 IS A TUESDAY.
I WAS GOING TO ADDRESS THAT THIS EVENING WITH REGARD TO THE
7th OF APRIL.
THAT IS A SPECIAL CALLED MEETING AND IT WILL BE AN
ADDITIONAL STAFF REPORT.
HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH THE DEPUTY CITY CLERK
SULING LUCAS AND THE CHIEF OF STAFF REGARDING THE BACKSTORY
WITH CREATING SOMETHING WHICH IS A SPECIAL CALLED, REGULAR
MEETING.
I'LL MEET WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY.
IF WE CAN TALK BEFORE TONIGHT.
AND MAYBE WE COULD BRING IT UP NEXT WEEK.
COW HOLD THAT MOTION TILL TONIGHT INSTEAD OF HAVING IT ON
THE 7th?
12:47:13PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I HAVE A MOTION AND I HAVE A SECOND.
WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.
IF SOMETHING CHANGES, WE CHANGE.
I HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:47:24PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
AND THEN THIS IS A COMPANION.

I MOVE TO HAVE THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT MEET WITH EACH COUNCIL
MEMBER TO DISCUSS ITEMS THAT MAY NEED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE
LARGE FORMAT DIGITAL SIGN ORDINANCE AND BE PREPARED TO HAVE
A PUBLIC DISCUSSION WITH CITY COUNCIL AT THAT APRIL 7
MEETING UNDER STAFF REPORTS TO ANSWER PROCESS AND GUIDELINE
QUESTIONS REQUIRED TO DRAFT AN ORDINANCE.
I HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN TO MS. JOHNSON VELEZ.
THIS IS WHAT SHE REQUESTED.
12:47:52PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
I KNOW THIS IS THE PLAN ANYWAY BECAUSE OF CONVERSATIONS I'M
HAVING.
BUT TO INCLUDE THE DISCUSSION OF THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
BETWEEN --
12:48:05PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
YES, YES.
AGREED.
YES, I WILL TAKE THAT FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
TO INCLUDE THE SETTLEMENT DISCUSSIONS AND EXPLANATIONS ON
THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
12:48:14PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:48:21PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THAT WAY I CAN CANCEL MY MOTION FOR CM
25-18955, FORMERLY FILE CM 25-13045, ABOUT STAFF TO PROVIDE

A REPORT ON THE CITIES THAT HAVE EXECUTED SIGNED ORDINANCES,
OUTLINE KEY POINTS FOR THESE ORDINANCES ABOUT -- AND THE
ONE-ON-ONE UPDATES.
BASICALLY, IT IS CHANGING THE MOTION INTO THESE TWO MOTIONS.
TAKE OUT THE OLD MOTION ABOUT LARGE DIGITAL FORMAT SIGNS AND
PUT IT IN THE NEW ONE.
12:49:05PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
SAME DATE?
12:49:08PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO MOVE IT -- YES.
THAT'S RESCHEDULED TO THE SPECIAL CALL MEETING ON APRIL 7.
WE'RE BASICALLY REPLACING ONE MOTION WITH ANOTHER.
12:49:16PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
GOTCHA.
12:49:16PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
THAT'S WHY I READ ALL THOSE NUMBERS.
12:49:19PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION TO REMOVE THAT ONE AGENDA ITEM
BECAUSE WE ALREADY PASSED THE OTHER ONE.
MOTION TO REMOVE THAT ONE MOTION FROM THE APRIL 7 SPECIAL
CALL MEETING FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
IS THERE A SECOND?
WE HAVE A SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:49:35PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
MY LAST ONE, I MADE A MOTION LAST WEEK --
12:49:40PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
VIERA.
12:49:42PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I MADE A MOTION LAST WEEK TO TENTATIVELY
CONTINUE THE COUNCIL SALARY DISCUSSION TO AUGUST 2026

WORKSHOP.
WE DIDN'T HAVE A CALENDAR AT THAT TIME.
NOW WE HAVE A CALENDAR.
THERE IS NO WORKSHOP IN AUGUST.
I MOVE TO AMEND MY MOTION TO SCHEDULE THE SALARY DISCUSSION
FILE CM 24-4658 TO THE SEPTEMBER 24th, 2026 WORKSHOP.
12:50:03PM >> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
AYES HAVE IT.
I THINK IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS NOW.
12:50:11PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
HENCE THE 2024.
THAT'S IT.
12:50:15PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
COUNCILWOMAN YOUNG, ANY NEW BUSINESS?
12:50:19PM >>NAYA YOUNG:
I'LL DO IT TONIGHT.
12:50:21PM >>LUIS VIERA:
REALLY QUICK.
FIRST, I WANTED TO WISH MY AIDE SEBASTIAN LEON VERY HAPPY
BIRTHDAY.
12:50:28PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
12:50:30PM >>LUIS VIERA:
FINE YOUNG MAN.
HE DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT BE HERE.
SO GOD BLESS HIM.
A COUPLE OF QUICK MOTIONS. I WANTED TO ON APRIL 2nd HAVE
A STAFF REPORT ON THE PROSPECTS OF FINISHING UP THE
RESURFACING OR REPAVING JOB FOR 30th, WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT

TO DISTRICT 2 TAMPA POLICE AND STATION 13.
WRITTEN.
12:50:53PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION FOR WRITTEN REPORT FROM
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
DISCUSSION?
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:51:00PM >>LUIS VIERA:
I WAS ASKED BY THE RED STAR FOUNDATION -- THEY
ARE AN ORGANIZATION THAT ADVOCATES FOR VETERANS WHO DIE BY
SUICIDE -- THAT IS RED STAR TO GIVE A TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
COMMENDATION TO JOE PEQUENO, P-E-Q-U-E-N-O, WHO IS A MEDAL
OF HONOR RECIPIENT AND TO RED STAR FOUNDATION, WHICH I'LL BE
GIVING ON SATURDAY EVENING, IF I MAY.
12:51:20PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION FOR OFF-SITE COMMENDATION FROM
COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, AYE.
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
12:51:28PM >>LUIS VIERA:
REALLY QUICK, I MOTION FOR THE QUARTERLY
IN-PERSON FIRE STATION 24 REPORT TO BE FIRST AFTER LUNCH ON
MARCH 26.
IT'S ON THE AGENDA.

JUST WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS HERE FOR THAT.
12:51:39PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION FROM COUNCILMAN VIERA.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
12:51:45PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
WITH REGARD TO THE SETTING OF FIRST AFTER
LUNCH, YOU DO SOMETIMES MOST LIKELY HAVE A 1:30 PUBLIC
HEARING.
WHAT -- HOW DO YOU WISH TO HANDLE IT?
12:51:57PM >>LUIS VIERA:
AS EXPEDITED AS POSSIBLE.
12:52:01PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
FIRST AFTER LUNCH -- BUT THE HEARING, YOU
WOULD PREFER THE HEARING TAKE PREFERENCE.
12:52:11PM >>LUIS VIERA:
IN OTHER WORDS, THAT IS MY MOTION.
IF HE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT -- IF WE WANT TO TAKE A
LOOK AT THAT DAY AND TIME AND PUSH IT OFF 30 MINUTES --
12:52:21PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU AND LOVE MY UNION 754,
THE PROBLEM, I'M LOOKING AT THE SCHEDULE, THIS IS MARCH 26
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
12:52:29PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES, SIR.
12:52:30PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
THAT AGENDA IS GOING TO BE A REPEAT OF
LAST --
12:52:34PM >>LUIS VIERA:
HOW ABOUT THIS, SIR, IF I MAY, SO I WON'T MAKE
IT AS A MOTION.
I'LL WORK WITH THE STAKEHOLDERS BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE UNION.
IT'S MORE THE CONTRACTORS ARE GOING TO BE HERE.
SINCE THEY ARE GOING TO BE HERE IN PERSON, WHAT TIME IS GOOD
FOR THEM AND THEN PROPOSE THAT VIA MEMO IF THAT SUFFICE.

12:52:51PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
OR DO IT REAL TIME ON THE 26 SO WE DON'T
GET TIED UP LIKE THE LAST TIME.
GOING HERE, GOING THERE.
THAT AGENDA WAS A NIGHTMARE BECAUSE OF SOME OF THOSE
MOVEMENTS WE MADE.
12:53:02PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
MARTIN SHELBY, SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
IF IT IS THE MARCH 26, YOU ARE AT YOUR LIMIT FOR STAFF
REPORTS AND UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
12:53:10PM >>LUIS VIERA:
THIS IS NOT AN ADDITIONAL ONE.
AGAIN, THIS IS ONE ON THERE.
12:53:14PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IT'S ALREADY THERE.
AS YOU CAN SEE, I ANTICIPATE THAT MEETING IS GOING TO BE
TOUGH.
12:53:20PM >>LUIS VIERA:
SINCE THERE IS A CHALLENGE ON THAT I RESPECT
THAT.
12:53:23PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I THINK GENERALLY THIS COUNCIL GIVES A LOT
OF DEFERENCE TO FOLKS WHO SHOW UP.
FIND A SWEET SPOT, MAKE THAT WORK.
I HEARD YOU SAY YOU'LL RESCIND THE MOTION.
12:53:35PM >>LUIS VIERA:
YES, SIR.
HEREBY RESCIND.
THESE ARE NOT MOTIONS.
ONE IS, IF YOU GUYS REMEMBER, I HAD DONE A MOTION FOR AN
ORDINANCE ON A PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN THAT WOULD BE DONE
MANDATORY EVERY YEAR AND WHERE FIRE -- STRIKE THAT FIRE AND

POLICE UNIONS WOULD WORK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION HAVING A
JOINT PUBLIC SAFETY MASTER PLAN.
WE'VE HAD SO MANY CHALLENGES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS WITH
THIS IDEA, NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES,
BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY LEGAL THAT ESSENTIALLY, ACCORDING TO
THEIR INTERPRETATION, THAT MAY VERY WELL VIOLATE THE
CHARTER.
I DON'T HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE WITH IT, WITH WHAT I SEE.
AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
BUT ONE THING I AM TALKING TO FOLKS ABOUT, NOT GOING TO
MOTION FOR IT TODAY, SINCE IT VIOLATES THE CHARTER, WHICH I
DON'T THINK IT DOES, BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER, IF IT
IS FOUND TO VIOLATE THE CHARTER, AMEND THE CHARTER AND TAKE
IT TO THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE, BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT
HAVING SOMETHING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY IN THE CHARTER FOR
MANDATORY, YEAR BY YEAR REVIEWS IS SOMETHING THAT MAKES
SENSE.
JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW BECAUSE I CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT
OUTSIDE OF THIS, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT THAT.
LASTLY, THIS WEEK IS THE LAST DAY OF MY LEGISLATIVE
ASSISTANT BRANNON JORDAN LAZO, WHO DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING
HERE.
IT'S NOT BECAUSE, IT'S JUST THE WAY SHE IS.
SUCH A GOOD PERSON.
I'VE HAD BRANNON AS MY LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT FOR EIGHT

YEARS.
SHE IS A WONDERFUL EMPLOYEE.
GOOD WOMAN OF INTEGRITY AND DECENCY AND WARMTH AND JUST
COMPASSION AND EMPATHY AND HARD WORKER AND AMAZING
PROFESSIONAL, NOT JUST MY LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT, MY DEAR
FRIEND AND MY SISTER.
WE'RE VERY, VERY CLOSE, AND WE'VE BEEN THROUGH SOME PICKLES
TOGETHER AND EVERYTHING WHICH IS KIND OF FUNNY.
SHE'S BEEN THERE FOR ME THROUGH TOUGH TIMES IN MY LIFE.
I JUST APPRECIATE HER SO MUCH.
ONE OF THE KINDEST, DEAREST PEOPLE I KNOW.
SO HONORED TO WORK WITH HER AND THE PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY
DISTRICT 7-POINT EVERYBODY OUT THERE KNOWS HER AND SHE'S
FAMILY TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE AFTER MILTON
AND IN FOREST HILLS AND NORTH TAMPA.
THEY KNOW BRANNON WELL.
SHE IS JUST A GOOD PERSON.
TAKE ASIDE EVERYTHING ELSE, SHE IS JUST A GOOD PERSON.
SHE WILL BE MISSED.
SHE IS FAMILY.
SHE'S GOING TO BE MISSED.
SHE IS A GOOD PERSON.
WE JUST SEND HER AND HER WONDERFUL FAMILY OUR BEST.
JUST GOD BLESS YOU.
12:56:03PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
I THINK IT HAS TO BE DISCLOSED WHY SHE'S

NOT OUT HERE, SHE ABSOLUTELY INSISTED SHE DIDN'T WANT TO
HAVE ANYBODY DO ALL OF THIS FOR HER.
I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF KNOWING HER FOR A LONG TIME.
LONG BEFORE MY LIFE ON CITY COUNCIL.
SHE'S ALSO JUST A BRILLIANT PERSON.
JUST ABSOLUTELY SO SMART AND SO CHARMING AND SO MUCH
CAPABILITY AND CAPACITY FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING SHE
TACKLES.
I'VE KNOWN HER TO BE THAT PERSON LONG BEFORE CITY COUNCIL.
HOW ABOUT WE GIVE HER A STANDING OVATION?
[ APPLAUSE ]
THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN VIERA, FOR BRINGING THAT TO OUR
ATTENTION.
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
12:56:49PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THANK YOU, BRANNON, FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE
DONE.
YOU'VE BEEN FANTASTIC TO WORK WITH.
THE ISSUE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER HURTAK BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE
DIGITAL SIGNS, I THINK SHE SAID BEFORE SHE IS PARTLY DOING
IT IN HONOR OF COUNCIL MEMBER HENDERSON WHO WAS WORKING ON
THIS.
IT WOULD BE BEFORE SHE PASSED.
AND THIS WAS NOT AN IDEA THAT I CREATED, BUT I WAS
SUPPORTING HER.
I THINK MY COLLEAGUES WERE SUPPORTING HER.

SHE SEEMED TO BE VERY STRESSED OUT ABOUT THAT IN THE WEEKS
LEADING UP TO HER PASSING, BOTH FRUSTRATED WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION AND FRUSTRATED WITH OUTSIDE FOLKS.
ONE OF THEM, WHICH I MENTIONED BEFORE, BEEN REPORTED TO ME,
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LIGHTNING HAS BEEN ALLEGEDLY PLAYING
HARD BALL POLITICS REGARDING THIS ISSUE.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY BECAUSE HOW WOULD SMALL DIGITAL
SIGNS IN ONE PART OF DOWNTOWN AFFECT THE LIGHTNING?
BUT THAT CAUSED ME TO PUT ITEM NUMBER 8 ON THE AGENDA TODAY.
AND IN THE REPORT ON ITEM NUMBER 8, IT TALKS ABOUT HOW IT
WAS LEGALLY LET.
HOWEVER, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, I DID ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY
TO WEIGH IN ON WHETHER THE CODE HAD BEEN FOLLOWED.
I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION AND SECOND TO RECEIVE AND FILE THE
E-MAIL I GOT FROM HIM WHICH I'LL PASS OUT TO EVERYBODY.
I JUST WANT TO READ IT FOR THE RECORD ALSO AND IN MY MOTION,
I WANT TO PUT IT IN OnBase.
HE SAYS, IT IS MY OPINION THAT BENCHMARK SIGNS WERE LEGALLY
PERMITTED, HOWEVER, THE APPROVAL PROVIDED THEY HAD TO COMPLY
WITH THE CITY SIGN CODE WHICH PROHIBITS ACTIVATION MOVEMENT.
A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I SPOKE WITH THE ATTORNEY FOR THE
ARENA AND HE CONFIRMED THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF COMPLYING
WITH THE CODE'S PROHIBITION ON ACTIVATION MOVEMENT.
I SUBSEQUENTLY CONTACTED ABBYE AND CONFIRMED THAT CODE
ENFORCEMENT WOULD REVIEW THE STATUS OF THE SIGNS.

I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST THE LIGHTNING HAVING SIGNS AND
IT'S KIND OF COOL TO HAVE IT OUT THERE, BUT I JUST WISH THEY
WOULD CALL OFF THEIR FOLKS WHO ARE ALLEGEDLY TRYING TO STOP
OTHER PEOPLE FROM GETTING SIGNS.
AND I WOULD JUST MAKE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE THIS
LETTER AND TO ADD IT TO NUMBER 8 AND THEN ALSO PUT IT ON
OnBase AROUND NUMBER 8, PLEASE.
12:59:03PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
I WANT TO MAKE SURE I DIDN'T MISHEAR THAT.
THE SENTENCE IS, AS TO THE OPINION, COULD YOU RESTATE THAT,
PLEASE, CLEARLY?
12:59:17PM >>BILL CARLSON:
THE WHOLE OPINION?
12:59:19PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
THE SENTENCE THAT SAYS -- IT IS IN MY
OPINION.
12:59:22PM >>BILL CARLSON:
IT IS IN MY OPINION THE BENCHMARK SIGNS WERE
LEGALLY PERMITTED.
12:59:27PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
LEGALLY PERMITTED.
12:59:28PM >>BILL CARLSON:
HOWEVER.
THE LEGALLY PERMITTED WAS IN THE REPORT UNDER ITEM 8.
HOWEVER, THEY ARE NOT MEETING CODE, AND CODE ENFORCEMENT IS
GOING TO GO OUT AND LOOK AT IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE MOVING
IMAGES.
MAYBE OTHER THINGS THAT DON'T FIT THE CODE.
SO THEY MAY HAVE TO COME BEFORE US AT SOME POINT TO FIX
THAT.
AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST THE LIGHTNING HAVING A

SIGN, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE REPRESENTATIVES GOING OUT
TRYING TO STOP OTHER PEOPLE FROM HAVING SIGNS.
I MADE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE TO ADD TO NUMBER 8 AND
TO OnBase.
1:00:00PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
OnBase IS COMPLIED.
ONCE IT IS RECEIVED AND FILED IT WOULD GET UPLOADED.
1:00:04PM >>BILL CARLSON:
WANT TO MAKE SURE THE PUBLIC CAN SEE IT.
1:00:07PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE FROM COUNCILMAN
CARLSON.
SECOND FROM COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
FOR DISCUSSION, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.
1:00:12PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.
I HAVE ACTUALLY REACHED OUT TO ABBYE MULTIPLE TIMES ABOUT
THIS, AND SHE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT EVERY TIME I
MENTION IT.
BETTER LUCK TO YOU.
1:00:23PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
1:00:25PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
MOVE TO RECEIVE AND FILE.
1:00:27PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IN AN ATTEMPT TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE OUR
SCHEDULING PROCESS, I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION NOW BUT
MAYBE MAKE IT TONIGHT OR NEXT WEEK, ON OUR AGENDAS ON
CONTINUED REPORTS, WE HAVE A LOT OF HOLD-OVERS, THAT WE HAVE
QUARTERLY REPORTS AND WHATNOT.
LIKE TO SAY NO CONTINUING REPORT LAST MORE THAN 12 MONTHS.
ALWAYS CAN REINTRODUCE IT.

ANYTHING ON THE AGENDA MORE THAN 12 MONTHS AUTOMATICALLY
PURGED.
CURRENT COUNCILPERSON WANTS TO REINTRODUCE THAT FOR
RECURRING REPORT THEY CAN BRING THAT UP IN BUSINESS.
AND THEN I ALSO WANT TO ENCOURAGE EVERYONE, ONCE AGAIN,
REMEMBER, EVERY HOUR THAT STAFF IS SPENDING DOING THESE
THINGS, THAT IS AN HOUR THEY ARE NOT DOING THEIR REGULAR
FULL-TIME JOB OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
IF THEY COULD PLEASE BE VERY DILIGENT ABOUT REQUESTING STAFF
REPORTS AND THEN REFERENCE OUR TIME IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS SO
WE AVOID THESE HELLACIOUS MEETINGS.
BECAUSE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF OUR TIME IS SPENT ON STAFF
DISCUSSION.
IF THEY COULD, ONE, RESTRICT WHATEVER PRESENTATION IN THEIR
MOTION TO EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT THAT CAN BE DONE IN TEN
MINUTES IN A STAFF REPORT, VERBAL STAFF REPORT.
WE ALREADY HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON HOW MANY.
BUT ALSO IF SOMETHING COULD BE DONE WRITTEN INSTEAD OF
VERBAL, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT AS WELL.
THIS IS GOING TO BE A CONTINUING DISCUSSION OF TRYING TO
MAKE THESE MEETINGS MORE EFFICIENT FOR EVERYBODY CONCERNED,
BUT, AGAIN, I'M NOT MAKING A MOTION RIGHT NOW, BUT I WANT
YOU ALL TO BE THINKING ABOUT THAT AND I'LL BRING IT UP
ANOTHER TIME DURING BUSINESS.
COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK.

1:02:06PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
I AGREE.
I WOULD ALSO JUST ASK PEOPLE, DO I NEED TO MAKE A MOTION OR
CAN I JUST PICK UP THE PHONE?
1:02:15PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
100%.
1:02:16PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
IT'S A BIG ISSUE.
I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION WE HAD ABOUT THIS ABOUT
A YEAR AGO BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I STARTED TO DO.
I REALLY LOOKED AT EVERYTHING AND THEN KELLY AND I REALLY
THINK BEFORE MAKING A MOTION, WE'RE LIKE, CAN WE PICK UP THE
PHONE.
IF WE CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND STILL DON'T GET AN ANSWER
AND MORE INVOLVED AND WE THINK YOU ALL NEED TO BE INVOLVED,
THEN I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
BUT I'M WORKING REALLY HARD TO JUST HAVE PHONE CALLS.
I RECOMMEND IT.
IT WORKS GREAT.
1:02:45PM >>GUIDO MANISCALCO:
THAT IS THE REASON I'M SO QUIET.
I PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
EVERYBODY IS BUSY.
I WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THAT.
1:02:53PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
IT IS AN ONGOING EFFORT TO TRY TO WRANGLE
-- THINGS SPIRAL OUT.
TRY TO PULL IT BACK IN AND CLEAN THINGS UP.
I MAY MAKE THE MOTION ABOUT RECURRING STAFF REPORTS TONIGHT
AND THEN MOVE FORWARD.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS EVER GOING TO BE AN ENDING
CONVERSATION.
IT'S GOING TO BE -- I ALWAYS HAVE TO HOUSE-KEEP, KEEP UP
WITH CONSTANTLY.
MR. SHELBY, DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING?
1:03:17PM >>MARTIN SHELBY:
IN LINE WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH
REGARD TO YOUR APRIL 7 MEETING -- AND I'LL BRING THIS BACK
TONIGHT IF YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT, PLEASE -- IS FOR THE SAKE
OF SIMPLICITY, INSTEAD OF CALLING IT A SPECIAL CALL REGULAR
SESSION, ALL THOSE ITEMS THAT ARE NOW LISTED IN STAFF
REPORTS AND UNFINISHED BUSINESS, RATHER THAN DEAL WITH ALL
THE LOGISTICS OF PUTTING TOGETHER A CONSENT DOCKET OR
CREATING A WHOLE NEW AGENDA, WHEN I COME BACK TONIGHT,
PLEASE CONSIDER RENAMING THAT A SPECIAL CALL WORKSHOP AND
MAKING THOSE WORKSHOP ITEMS.
1:03:54PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
LET'S THINK ABOUT IT.
I DON'T OBJECT TO THE RENAMING OF IT AND REPURPOSING FOR
THAT SPECIFIC REASON.
I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT FROM ANYBODY, IS THERE ANY
BUSINESS -- IF THERE ISN'T ANY, THEN, YEAH, WHY NOT.
1:04:10PM >>LYNN HURTAK:
LET'S LOOK AT OUR CALENDARS.
1:04:12PM >>ALAN CLENDENIN:
WE HAVE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE FROM
COUNCILMAN CARLSON.
SECOND FROM COUNCILMAN MANISCALCO.
AYES HAVE IT.

FOUR MINUTES LATER.
WE'RE ADJOURNED.
SEE YOU AT 5:01 P.M.
[ SOUNDING GAVEL ]

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