TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
6-24-99
DISCLAIMER
The following represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
(CONVENE 8:10 A.M.)
Part 1 of 9
[SOUNDING GAVEL]
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: CITY COUNCIL IS CALLED DO ORDER.
ROLL CALL.
[ROLL CALL]
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THIS MEETING IS CALLED REGARDING CITY
COUNCIL'S BUDGET ON A MOTION MADE BY ALVAREZ AND SAUL-SENA.
THAT'S WHAT THIS MEETING IS ABOUT.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: MR. CHAIRMAN, I BELIEVE THAT THIS PAST
YEAR'S BUDGET CONTAINED FUNDS FOR THE SALARY OF DAVID CARR,
BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR SUSPENDED HIM AFTER THE BUDGET HAD ALREADY
GONE THROUGH ITS APPROVAL CYCLE.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE COMPUTERS, WHICH I EAGERLY ANTICIPATE
GETTING SO I CAN BETTER DO MY WORK AS A COUNCIL PERSON, WILL
COME OUT OF SOME OF THAT MONEY.
BUT FOR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET I WAS VERY EAGER TO DISCUSS
TECHNOLOGY AND SALARIES FOR CITY COUNCIL SUPPORT STAFF.
I THINK WE ARE ALLOWED BY THE CHARTER, AND WE WOULD SERVE OUR
CONSTITUENTS BETTER, IF WE WERE TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT BUDGET
ANALYST AND CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, AND JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
GET OUR COMPUTERS.
THAT'S HOW I FEEL.
AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT MONEY IS BUILT INTO THE
BUDGET.
I WAS KIND OF EMBARRASSED WHEN MARY SAID THAT RUDY IS DONATING
HIS SERVICES.
I WAS THRILLED HE WAS WILLING TO DO IT.
BUT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEG FOLKS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR FOR
THEIR EXPERTISE.
I THINK IT'S REALLY GRACIOUS OF RUDY TO SHARE HIS KNOWLEDGE --
AND HE'S A PERFECT PERSON TO DO IT -- BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO
RELY ON INDEPENDENT STAFF OF OUR OWN TO HELP US WITH OUR SPECIAL
PROJECTS WHETHER IT'S GRANT WRITING, EXPLORING DIFFERENT FUNDING
MECHANISMS FOR PROJECTS THAT OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE ASKING FOR.
I BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD REALLY HELP US BE MORE EFFECTIVE,
BETTER PREPARED CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: ANYONE ELSE?
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I AGREE WITH YOU IN THE CASE OF SUPPORT STAFF,
INCREASING THE SALARIES, AND THE OTHER TECHNICAL SUPPORT AND
STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE BUDGET ANALYST UNTIL WE GET INTO THE
BUDGET.
I HAVE HAD SOME MEETINGS WITH THE BUDGET DEPARTMENT, AND WE HAVE
SET UP A CALENDAR.
AND SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DISCUSS AT THAT TIME.
DISCUSS THE CALENDAR, BUDGET CALENDAR.
AND I WILL BE PASSING THIS OUT SO WE CAN SEE WHEN DIFFERENT --
WELL, ACTUALLY, THE REVIEW OF THE BUDGET COMING UP, WITH THE
DEPARTMENTS AND SO ON, SO WE CAN SEE WHAT IT IS THAT WE ACTUALLY
NEED TO PUT INTO THE BUDGET AT THAT TIME.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME SAY THIS IF I MAY.
THE POSITION -- AND I WANT TO VERIFY AGAIN THE POSITION OF
BUDGET ANALYST IN MY OPINION IS NOT NEEDED.
IT CREATES A SYSTEM IN GOVERNMENT OF WASTE.
IT CREATES A SYSTEM WHERE THAT INDIVIDUAL, WHOEVER HE OR SHE MAY
BE, DOES NOT HAVE 40 HOURS TO WORK ON A WEEKLY BASIS.
AND THE TAXPAYERS, IN MY OPINION -- AND I WANT TO CLARIFY THIS,
THIS IS MY OPINION -- DOES NOT SERVE THE BEST.
IF SOMEONE WANTED TO HIRE AN OUTSIDE FIRM OR OUTSIDE INDIVIDUAL
TO HELP THE COUNCIL THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS FROM JULY TO THE
END OF SEPTEMBER, I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS WITH THAT.
NONE AT ALL.
BUT TO HAVE A PAID STAFF INDIVIDUAL MAKING BETWEEN 37,000 TO
50-PLUS THOUSAND PLUS 25% IN FRINGE BENEFITS IS NOT THE RIGHT
THING TO DO.
I WOULDN'T DO IT IN MY BUSINESS.
BECAUSE THAT INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT HAVE 40 HOURS OF WORK.
ON A WEEKLY BASIS, WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT.
AND THAT'S JUST THE OPINION OF ONE.
I'VE SEEN THAT.
IN FACT I WAS ON THE COUNCIL WHEN IT ORIGINALLY STARTED BACK IN
THE '70s WHEN WE DID PUT A BUDGET ANALYST ON BOARD.
AT THAT TIME, I REALLY BELIEVED WE NEEDED ONE BECAUSE THERE WAS
AN ADMINISTRATION THAT DID NOT WANT TO SHARE SOME OF THE
INFORMATION WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS
WERE LEFT IN LEFT FIELD BY THEMSELVES.
AND THEREFORE WE INSTITUTED THAT AND CREATED BOTH OF THOSE
POSITIONS.
BUT AGAIN THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
MR. BUCKHORN.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GOING TO ADD MY VOICE TO WHAT
HAS BEEN ECHOED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
THOSE OF US WHO WERE HERE THE PREVIOUS TERM -- AND MOST OF YOU
KNOW, I'M HERE EVERY DAY, SOME DAYS WHEN NOBODY ELSE IS HERE ON
WEEKENDS.
AND UNEQUIVOCALLY THE DEMAND ON THE BUDGET ANALYST, WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF SPECIFIC COUNCIL REQUESTS, OR ON OCCASION DURING
THE BUDGET PROCESS IS VIRTUALLY NIL.
WE HAD A SLOT THAT WAS FILLED THAT DID NOTHING.
IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS.
AND I WHOLEHEARTEDLY CONCUR WITH THE DECISION THAT WE MADE AS A
COUNCIL TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO, WHICH WAS THAT WE TRULY DID
NOT NEED THAT POSITION, AND WE COULD NOT JUSTIFY IT, THAT IT WAS
A WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY, AND THAT'S WHY WE DID WHAT WE DID.
AND I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM, IN SPITE OF WHATEVER PHILOSOPHICAL
DIFFERENCES I MAY HAVE, THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE GOTTEN BY
AND LARGE FROM THE BUDGET DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN ADEQUATE.
WOULD I ON COUNCIL LIKE MY OWN INTERPRETATION OR MY OWN
INDEPENDENT ANNAL SIFT?
PERHAPS.
BUT -- ANALYST?
PERHAPS.
BUT I CAN BOUNCE THAT OFF ON PEOPLE IN PRIVATE SECTOR WHO DON'T
REPRESENT CITY COUNCIL, WHO DON'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF US, BUT
SHE'S DOING IT ON HER OWN AS A COUNCIL MEMBER.
WE ALL DO THAT.
WE ALL HAVE PEOPLE THAT WE BOUNCE IDEAS OFF OF.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN TO SPEAK FOR COUNSEL OR EMPLOYEES SO I
WOULD WHOLEHEARTEDLY CONCUR WITH WHAT THE CHAIRMAN SAYS AND
WOULD NOT SUPPORT THE ADDITION OF A FULL-TIME BUDGET ANALYST.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MR. CHAIRMAN, AND PERHAPS MR. BUCKHORN AS
WELL, MRS. MILLER, FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN I HAVE,
WHAT IS Y'ALL'S FEELING ABOUT INDEPENDENT COUNCIL AS WELL?
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE WRESTLED WITH BECAUSE OF MY
CAREER.
I WONDERED WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR ENACTING THAT BACK THEN?
HAVE YOU ALL GONE THROUGH THAT SAME SORT OF ANALYSIS?
>>BOB BUCKHORN: HAVING SERVED IN A PREVIOUS LIFE IN A PREVIOUS
ADMINISTRATION, AND COUNCIL MEMBER SAUL-SENA CAN RELATE TO THIS
OAT AT THE TIME THERE WAS A FEELING THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S
STAFF, OR THE CITY ATTORNEY -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY WAS BIASED
TOWARDS THE ADMINISTRATION BUT CERTAINLY REPRESENTED THE
ADMINISTRATION VIEWS, AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, THERE WAS A
FEELING ON THE PART OF THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL THAT THEY NEEDED
MORE INDEPENDENCE.
IS THAT AN ACCURATE INTERPRETATION?
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: THAT THE ATTORNEY HAD PREDATED THAT.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS THEY SEPARATED IT FROM
THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PER SE AND IT BECAME A POSITION OF
HIRED AND FIRED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND CITY COUNCIL CHAIRMAN.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I THINK IT WAS ALWAYS SET UP --.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: IT BECAME PART OF YOUR BUDGET AT THE TIME.
AND THE SAME HAPPENED WITH THE BUDGET ANALYST, WHICH THE ANALYST
WAS ADDED AT THE TIME.
BECAUSE THE RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT AS GOOD BETWEEN COUNCIL AND
ADMINISTRATION.
THERE WASN'T THE TRUST FACTOR.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: MR. CHAIRMAN, I REALLY ENJOY WORKING WITH
THIS ADMINISTRATION.
I THINK THEY HAVE GOT BRIGHT, TERRIFIC PEOPLE.
AND MY FEELINGS ABOUT HAVING THIS INDEPENDENT STAFF ARE NO
REFLECTION ON MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE COMPETENCE OR THE INTEGRITY
OR ANY PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION.
I JUST FEEL THAT THE WAY THAT GOVERNMENT IS STRUCTURED, IT'S
APPROPRIATE FOR CITY COUNCIL TO FUNCTION AS A CHECK AND BALANCE
WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.
BUT THE OTHER REASON THAT I, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A
BUDGET ANALYST, IS THAT THE OTHER THING THEY CAN DO IS WRITE
GRANTS.
AND THERE ARE PROJECTS THAT I CAN LOOK TO, SUCH AS YESTERDAY I
WAS AT A MEETING OF ROADWAYS AND WE TALKED ABOUT BRICK STREETS,
AND WE SAID BUT MR. SMITH HAS A PROBLEM BECAUSE HIS BUDGET IS SO
LIMITED.
I BELIEVE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO RESEARCH GETTING ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT MONEY TO BE ABLE TO BETTER MAINTAIN BRICK STREETS.
I HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT OUR GRANTS OFFICE, WHICH IS EXCELLENT, IS
REALLY STRAPPED FOR STAFF POWER RIGHT NOW TO FULFILL ALL THE
REQUESTS THAT ARE OUT THERE BY OTHER DEPARTMENTS ASKING FOR
GRANT WRITING HELP.
THAT'S THE SORT OF CONSTRUCTIVE FUNCTION THAT I WOULD SEE THE
BUDGET PERSON PURSUING.
IF THERE ISN'T THE SUPPORT FOR A FULL-TIME BUDGET ANALYST, I
WOULD THINK AT LEAST, AS MR. MIRANDA SUGGESTED, DURING THE
PERIOD OF OUR GOING THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS, IT WOULD BE
HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL SUPPORT.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I WOULD CONCUR WITH THAT, MRS. SAUL-SENA,
BECAUSE DURING THIS PROCESS THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, WE DO
NEED SOMEBODY THAT WOULD HELP IN THIS AREA.
AND YET I AGREE WITH MR. BUCKHORN THAT BRINGING PEOPLE IN FROM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR ON A PRO BONO BASIS WOULD LITERALLY SAVE SOME
MONEY.
AND IT'S NOT THAT WE ARE ASKING THEM TO BE HERE FULL TIME FOR
US, BUT THAT THEY GIVE SOMETHING BACK TO THE CITY, THE WAY I SEE
IT.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK INTO.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE BUDGET ANALYST THAT THEY HAD BEFORE.
I'VE HEARD THAT IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.
SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT I REALLY NEED TO STUDY.
SO AT THIS TIME I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE OUGHT TO KEEP
IN BACK OF OUR MINDS, IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING, YOU
KNOW.
I THINK THAT WE OUGHT TO JUST TABLE THAT FOR THE MOMENT AND GO
ON WITH WHAT WE ARE COMING UP WITH NOW, WITH THE SERVICES OF
MR. FERNANDEZ, AND ALSO SOME OF THE PRIVATE CITIZENS THAT WILL
BE ON MY COMMITTEE.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME SAY THIS.
IT'S NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUALS.
IT'S ABOUT A POSITION.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: RIGHT.
ABSOLUTELY.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: AND I WOULD HAVE BEEN BORED TO DEATH.
AND I WOULD HAVE FELT UNWANTED IF I HAD BEEN THE BUDGET ANALYST,
BECAUSE I HAD VERY LITTLE TO DO.
AND THERE'S A FEELING OF SATISFACTION THAT YOU GO TO WORK
SOMEWHERE AND YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING FOR THE CAUSE, WHATEVER THAT
CAUSE MAY BE.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT THE SYSTEM CHANGED FROM HAVING TO
NOT HAVING THE BUDGET ANALYST.
AND IT'S NOT AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS.
IT'S BASED ON THE POSITION BASIS WHERE THE POSITION IS NEEDED OR
NOT NEEDED.
AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, ANYWAY -- AND THIS IS JUST ME -- THAT I
WOULD BE BOARD TO DEATH BEING A BUDGET ANALYST IN THE CITY
COUNCIL.
FOR WHATEVER REASONS, THERE WAS NOT A WORKLOAD FOR THAT
POSITION.
SO THEREFORE THAT POSITION WAS ELIMINATED.
FOR NO OTHER REASON.
YES, SIR.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
RATHER THAN A FULL-TIME ANALYST IS A BUDGET CONSULTANT.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MRS. ALVAREZ, DO YOU THINK IT BE WISE TO PUT
OUT SOME RFPs FOR A CONSULTING SERVICE?
BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO BE COMING UP ON THE BUDGET.
OUR DISCUSSIONS ARE GOING TO BE STARTING AFTER THE BREAK.
AND IF WE ARE GOING TO GO THAT ROUTE, WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE
TO DO IS JUST ADVERTISE BIDS FOR SOMEONE TO SERVE IN THIS
CAPACITY FOR TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, JUST
TO GET US THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS, AND THEN PERHAPS IN THE
RFP WE COULD ASK THEM FOR AN HOURLY QUOTE FOR WORK AFTER THAT.
SO WHEN WE DO HAVE INDEPENDENT QUESTIONS, WE CAN GO TO THEM, AND
THAT WOULD JUST BE BILLED ON AN HOURLY BASIS.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: MR. CHAIRMAN, I FEEL LIKE AN OLD VETERAN HERE
AND I APOLOGIZE.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: YOU ARE BEGINNING TO LOOK LIKE ONE.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: YEAH. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE, AND
WE HAVE LIVED THROUGH THESE INDEPENDENT COMMITTEES THAT TAKE A
LOOK AT THE BUDGET.
AND I WOULD SAY THE INPUT THAT THEY PROVIDE IS AT BEST
SUPERFICIAL.
I MEAN, GIVEN THE MAGNITUDE AND COMPLEXITY, TO TAKE A LAYMAN AND
DROP HIM INTO THE MIDDLE OF THIS BUDGET CYCLE WITH SAY TWO WEEKS
PREPARATION, GIVEN THE COMPLEXITIES OF HOW PUBLIC AGENCIES
BUDGET, AND IN THE ABSENCE OF A PRICE-WATERHOUSE COMING IN HERE
AND GIVING US A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW LIKE WE PAY THEM TO DO, I'M
NOT SURE HOW VALUABLE TO COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT INPUT IS.
AND PERHAPS SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS WHO WERE HERE BEFORE CAN
ADD SOME INPUT TO IT.
AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US TO GO OUT AND LEARN
THE NUANCES OF THE BUDGET ITSELF.
A LAYMAN CAN SAY, YEAH, WE NEED TO STREAMLINE.
BUT THEY SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME GETTING EDUCATED AND UP TO
SPEED.
SO WHAT THEY TELL US WE KNOW ALREADY.
SO I'M NOT SURE JUST HOW VALUABLE THAT WOULD BE AND WHETHER OR
NOT ANY EXPENDITURES OF ANY MONEYS WOULD BE WARRANTED.
I MEAN, WE CAN ASK PEOPLE INDEPENDENTLY FOR INFORMATION BUT I
THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON ALL OF US TO ACTUALLY ROLL UP OUR
SLEEVES AND GET IN AND MAKE SOME CHANGES.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID, MR. BUCKHORN,
BECAUSE SOMEONE COMING IN WOULD SEE NUMBERS TO NUMBERS, VERSUS
IN INCOME, INCREASES AND DECREASES AND SO ON.
BUT THEY CAN'T GRASP THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT DOING A
COMPREHENSIVE STUDY.
IF ONE DEPARTMENT PRESENTS A BUDGET AND HAS 400,000, 600, 210
EMPLOYEES, IT DOESN'T WARRANT THAT TYPE OF BUDGET COST.
SO IN DOING THOSE TIMES, NO ONE, UNLESS YOU SPENT A MILLION
DOLLARS OR SO, I GUESS, WOULD GO AND DO A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY
FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT AND JUSTIFY EACH POSITION THAT'S
THERE AND QUANTIFY THOSE POSITIONS.
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING I AGREE WITH.
IT WOULD BE A CURSORY OVERVIEW, LOOKING AT DIFFERENT NUMBERS,
AND SEEING IF THOSE NUMBERS MATCH.
AND IF THEY MATCH, THEN THEY ARE GOING TO SAY, FINE.
SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
MRS. MILLER.
>>GWEN MILLER: I FEEL THE SAME WAY, BECAUSE WHAT YOU ARE
SAYING, WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE BUDGET WE DON'T
KNOW REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO SAY.
WE BRING SOMEBODY FROM OUTSIDE IN.
THEY ARE GOING TO BE JUST LIKE US LOOKING AT THE BUDGET.
AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE TELLING US SOMETHING THAT WE ALREADY
KNOW, WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW, AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO JUST GO
THROUGH THE PROCESS WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS YEAR AND SEE HOW IT
WORKS OUT.
IF THINGS WORK OUT FINE WE WILL BE OKAY WITH IT AND NEXT YEAR WE
CAN COME UP WITH AN IDEA OF WHO WE WOULD LIKE TO BRING ON BOARD
AS A CONSULTANT OR WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO AND MAYBE THINGS WILL
BE BETTER THEN.
GIVE THEM TIME TO LOOK AT BUDGET.
THE WAY WE ARE HANDLING IT NOW.
AND THEN MAYBE NEXT YEAR THAT PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE
GOING THROUGH, WHAT PROCESS WE GO THROUGH.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: THE COMPLEXITY OF THE BUDGET IS EXACTLY WHY
I FEEL LIKE WE NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP AS OPPOSED TO SOME PEOPLE
COMING IN.
WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS THE CITY COUNCIL BUDGET
FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR.
WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT WE BUILD MONEY IN PERHAPS TO HIRE A
CONSULTANT.
IF WE DON'T BUILD THE MONEY IN TO OUR BUDGET FOR HIRING THIS
PERSON FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, SHOULD WE DECIDE TO DO THAT, IT
WON'T BE THERE.
SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE WOULD COME -- WE WOULD GET TO APRIL
AND SAY, GEE, WE REALLY NEED TO HELP, AND MR. STEFAN WOULD SAY,
SORRY, NOT IN THE BUDGET, WE WOULD BE IN BAD SHAPE.
THE OTHER THING I WOULD LIKE US TO CONSIDER IS PUTTING MONEY IN
FOR A CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
AND IF YOU ALL DON'T FEEL THAT WE NEED ONE ON A CONTINUING
BASIS, AGAIN I THINK THE MODEL SUGGESTED BY MR. MIRANDA MIGHT BE
VALUABLE, TO HAVE THEM ON AN AS-CALL NEEDED BASIS WITH SOME
MONEY BUILT IN AS A CONSULTANT THE WAY THAT WE WOULD DO FOR THE
BUDGET ANALYST, TO HELP US WITH PARTICULAR ISSUES WE MIGHT HAVE.
I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A VALUABLE TOOL.
IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS I FOUND MYSELF FRUSTRATED.
I'M NOT A LAWYER.
THERE'S SOME LEGAL ISSUES THAT ARE CONFRONTING SOME OF OUR
BOARDS.
AND I WENT TO FRIENDS TO ASK THEIR OPINION.
BUT I FEEL AS A COUNCIL PERSON I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE PROFESSIONAL
PAID HELP THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ME TO BETTER DO MY JOB HERE
IN CITY COUNCIL.
AND AGAIN IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE SOMEBODY WHO SITS WITH US AT
ALL THE MEETINGS, BUT SOMEONE, PREFERABLY KNOWLEDGEABLE,
PREFERABLY FROM MAYBE ACROSS THE BAY EVEN, SO THEY ARE ABSENT
TAMPA POLITICS, TO JUST GIVE US A FRESH SET OF EYES, MAYBE
SOMEBODY FROM STETSON LAW SCHOOL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: IF I WAS MR. HARRISON I WOULD BE UPSET WITH
YOU.
AND YOU SIT RIGHT BETWEEN.
I'M ONLY CHEERING UP THE CROWD, ALL THAT WE HAVE HERE.
>>GWEN MILLER: I FEEL THAT -- I'VE GONE TO OUR CITY ATTORNEYS
AND I HAVE GOTTEN ALL THE HELP THAT I NEED.
WOULD THEIR SERVICES STILL BE AVAILABLE TO US DURING COUNCIL
MEETING WHEN WE KNOW WE NEED THEM?
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME SAY THIS.
IN ORDER TO BE A CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY, THERE IS ONE FACT WE
HAVEN'T BROUGHT UP.
AND THAT FACT IS THAT FIRST YOU HAVE TO BE AN ASSISTANT CITY
ATTORNEY, BY THE CHARTER, IF I REMEMBER.
SO I DON'T KNOW.
WE HAVE TO ASK -- WHEN WE GO TO THE 9:00 MEETING IF THAT'S A
POSSIBILITY.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I ASKED THEM.
HE SAID YOU CAN HIRE THE PERSON.
OFFICIALLY THAT PERSON WOULD BE UNDER MR. PALERMO'S DEPARTMENT.
BUT THEY WOULD BE AVAILABLE --.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: AGAIN I AM NOT OPPOSED TO THAT STRUCTURE, IF
IT'S GEARED TO THE POINT WHERE THERE'S NOT SEVEN OF US ASKING ON
A WEEKLY BASIS AND WE GET A BILL OF $200,000 IN SIX MONTHS OR
SOMETHING.
I KNOW I'M STRETCHING OUT THE FACTS HERE.
BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE
COUNCIL, AND THAT IT HAS SOME RECOMMENDED WAY OF ASKING.
IN OTHER WORDS, BY THE SUPPORT OF THE COUNCIL, NOT ONLY BY
MYSELF OR ANY INDIVIDUAL MEMBER BUT IT HAS TO BE BY THE VOICE OF
THE COUNCIL.
MR. BUCKHORN.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK MRS. SAUL'S COMPROMISE
THAT WE JUST BUILD INTO THE BUDGET IN THE EVENT WE NEED IT IS
GOOD.
AND I SAY THIS WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO MR. PALERMO.
HE'S PROVIDED TREMENDOUS SERVICE.
THERE HE IS.
I WAS ON A ROLL.
I WAS SAYING GOOD THINGS, JIMMY.
HE'S PROVIDED US TREMENDOUS SERVICE IN A TIME PARTICULARLY
DURING THE ETHICAL CHALLENGES THAT WE FACED THAT ARE MUCH
APPRECIATED.
AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL WITH THE OPINIONS THAT THEY HAVE
GIVEN US.
THEY HAVE WORKED WITH US WHENEVER WE NEEDED THEM AND HAVE BEEN
VERY SUPPORTIVE.
BUT THERE ARE TIMES YOU CAN ONLY SERVE SO MANY BOSSES.
AND IT WOULD HELP ON OCCASION IF WE EVER HAD THE MAJORITY OF
COUNCIL MEMBERS HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT A LEGAL OPINION, AND WE HAVE
OUR OWN ATTORNEY HERE BUT THAT PUTS HIM IN AN AWKWARD POSITION
AS WELL.
THAT MAY BE BUILT INTO THAT BUDGET SURPLUS, WE HAVE THAT THERE,
WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO MR. STEFAN.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: LIKE A CONTINGENCY.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: AGAIN I AM NOT OPPOSED TO DOING THAT.
I AM NOT OPPOSED TO HAVING A RAINY DAY, YOU MIGHT CALL IT, IN
CASE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENCE THAT MAJORITY OF COUNCIL FEELS THEY
HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION WITH WHOMEVER IS SITTING AS THE
CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY TO HAVE THOSE FUNDS AVAILABLE TO HAVE AN
OPINION RENDERED.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MR. CHAIRMAN, IS THE CONCERN -- I UNDERSTAND
THE REASONING BACK 20 YEARS AGO OR WHENEVER WHEN THE COUNCIL MAY
HAVE WANTED TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO WAS INDEPENDENT FROM THE CITY
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
AND IF THAT IS THE GOAL, A LITTLE INDEPENDENCE HERE TO KIND OF
BOUNCE THINGS OFF OF THE CITY ATTORNEY EMPLOYEES, THEN I DON'T
KNOW HOW WE SERVE THAT PURPOSE BY JUST HIRING ANOTHER ASSISTANT
CITY ATTORNEY WHO IS GOING TO WORK UNDER MR. PALERMO.
BUT IF THE CHARTER REQUIRES THAT, THEN I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE GAIN
BY JUST ADDING ANOTHER PERSON TO THE BUDGET RATHER THAN JUST
HAVING MR. PALERMO'S OFFICE DEDICATE SOMEONE AS THE CITY COUNCIL
ATTORNEY, AND THAT PERSON WOULD BE AVAILABLE WHENEVER WE NEED
HIM, AND MR. PALERMO WOULD CONTINUE TO ATTEND THE MEETINGS.
IF WE ARE LOOKING FOR INDEPENDENCE, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE
CAN'T ACHIEVE THAT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE CHARTER IS WRITTEN.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: MR. PALERMO, CLARIFY FOR US.
I BELIEVE THAT WE CHANGED THE LANGUAGE SUCH THAT WHOEVER THE
CITY ATTORNEY IS THAT WE HIRE WORKS FOR US.
IS THAT ACCURATE?
NOT THE CITY ATTORNEY.
THE CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: MR. PALERMO, YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE WE
SAID HOW MUCH WE ENJOYED WORKING WITH YOU.
>>JAMES PALERMO: IT'S A VERY STRANGE SECTION OF THE CODE OF THE
CHARTER BASICALLY.
CITY COUNCIL HAS THE ABILITY TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY.
IN SECTION 204 IN THE CHARTER.
WHAT IT DOES PROVIDE AND THE WAY IT READS, THE CITY COUNCIL MAY
APPOINT ONE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY WHOSE SALARIES,
QUALIFICATIONS WILL BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH OTHER CITY ATTORNEYS.
THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART WHICH I REALLY WANT YOU ALL TO LISTEN
TO.
SAID ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY SHALL SERVE ONLY IN AN ADVISORY
CAPACITY AND PERFORM OTHER DUTIES OF TECHNICAL NATURE SUCH AS
DRAFTING ORDINANCES, LEGAL RESEARCH, PROVIDING ADVISORY OPINIONS
AS REQUESTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL THROUGH ITS CHAIRMAN.
TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND SUBJECT TO TERMINATION BY FOUR MEMBERS OF
THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO IN EFFECT HE'S WORKING FOR YOU.
NOW, SAID ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY SHALL NOT FILE SUIT OR BRING
OR DEFEND ANY ACTION IN COURT ON BEHALF OF THE CITY COUNCIL, THE
MAYOR AND THE SEVERAL DEPARTMENTS, OFFICERS AND BOARDS OF THE
CITY GOVERNMENT, EXCEPT WITH WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION OF THE CITY
ATTORNEY.
THAT'S ME.
NO ACTION OR OPINION OF SAID ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY SHALL BE
CONSTRUED TO BE THE OFFICIAL LEGAL POSITION OF THE CITY, AND
SUCH LEGAL POSITIONS AND ACTIONS SHALL BE SOLELY WITHIN THE
SCOPE OF THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.
SO EFFECTIVELY YOU CAN HAVE AN ATTORNEY, AND HE CAN RENDER
ADVICE TO YOU.
HOWEVER, IF THERE IS EVER A CONFLICT BETWEEN HIS ADVICE AND THE
ADVICE GIVEN BY MY OFFICE, MY OFFICE CONTROLS.
SO THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE WITH THE PROBLEM.
I DIDN'T DRAFT THAT LANGUAGE.
IT WAS HERE WHEN I GOT HERE.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WE CAN'T ACCUSE YOU OF THAT?
>>JAMES PALERMO: NO, SIR.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: MR. PALERMO, DOES THAT MEAN IF THE CITY COUNCIL
GOT INTO A PROBLEM WHERE WE AS A WHOLE NEEDED TO -- SOMEBODY
SUED US OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WE COULD GO TO AN
INDEPENDENT COUNCIL TO HELP US?
>>JAMES PALERMO: IF YOU ARE SUED IN YOUR OFFICIAL CAPACITY WE
ARE CHARGED WITH YOUR REPRESENTATION.
CERTAINLY YOU ALL HAVE THE OPTION TO SEEK OUTSIDE HELP BUT THE
CITY WOULD PAY FOR THAT.
THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DECIDED ON A
CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
WE DEFEND ALL BOARDS, THE CITY COUNCIL, AND ANY EMPLOYEE OF THE
CITY WHO IS BROUGHT INTO A LAWSUIT.
AND THAT SURVIVES YOUR TENURE ON THE CITY COUNCIL.
IF YOU ARE EVER SUED AFTER YOU LEAVE THE BODY WE STILL REPRESENT
YOU.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MR. PALERMO, THE PERCEPTION, IF YOU WILL, IS
THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY REPRESENTS THE ADMINISTRATION.
>>JAMES PALERMO: YES, SIR.
I'M WELL AWARE OF THAT.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: WOULD YOU EXPOUND ON WHAT YOUR POSITION IS?
>>> YES, SIR.
GRANTED, I WAS APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR, AND CITY COUNCIL
CONFIRMED MY APPOINTMENT.
IT IS MY POSITION -- AND I STRESS THIS WITH MY STAFF -- THE CITY
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REPRESENTS THE CITY OF TAMPA.
THAT IS INCLUSIVE OF THE MAYOR, THE CITY COUNCIL, ALL BOARDS AND
ALL AGENCIES.
AND AS YOU KNOW, OUR PARTICULAR CODE OF ETHICS, WE ARE
RESPONSIBLE TO GIVE THE BEST ADVICE WE CAN TO THE INDIVIDUAL
CLIENT THAT COMES TO US WITH A PROBLEM.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE NEVER LEANED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
WE CALL IT THE WAY WE SEE IT.
A GOOD EXAMPLE -- AND I WAS AGAIN WATCHING THIS ON TELEVISION --
IS THE BOARD ISSUE.
SURE, I'D LIKE TO SAY, FORGET ABOUT IT, LET EVERYTHING BE THE
WAY IT IS.
WE HAVE CONCLUDED THROUGH A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT THAT'S JUST NOT
THE ANSWER.
AND WE MAY BE WRONG, YOU KNOW.
SOMETIMES YOU WISH YOU'RE WRONG WHEN YOU COME TO A CONCLUSION.
BUT THE HONEST CONCLUSION WE HAVE ARRIVED AT IS WHAT WE HAVE
TOLD THESE BOARD MEMBERS.
AND MRS. SAUL-SENA, I WILL HAVE THAT RESEARCH FOR YOU THIS
MORNING.
THEY ARE MAKING COPIES NOW.
YOU KNOW, HONEST PEOPLE DISAGREE.
VERY SELDOM DO YOU SEE AN APPELLATE COURT DECISION WHERE THE
DECISION IS UNANIMOUS.
EVEN JUDGES DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE LAW IS.
WE HAVE TOLD -- MY ASSISTANT HAS TOLD THE BOARDS, NOW THAT WE
ARE ON THAT SUBJECT, CERTAINLY THEY CAN SEEK AN OPINION FROM THE
FLORIDA COMMISSION ON ETHICS.
THAT IS THE SOLE BODY WHO CAN RENDER AN OPINION.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS NOT INVOLVED IN THESE MATTERS.
HE HAS SO STATED.
HE HAS PUBLISHED THAT ON HIS WEB SITE.
BACK TO THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, IT'S YOUR PLEASURE.
I CERTAINLY DON'T TAKE ANY OF THIS PERSONALLY.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OWN COUNSEL, CERTAINLY THAT IS
YOUR PREROGATIVE AS LONG AS YOU KNOW THE CONSTRAINTS, SOCIALLY,
WITH HAVING THAT PERSON SITTING WITH YOU.
>>ROSE FERLITA: I THINK THIS IS BASICALLY A CONCERN OF ALL OF
US, UNDERLINING THE FACT WE FELT A LITTLE BIT MORE SECURE IF WE
HAD OUR OWN COUNSEL ATTORNEY.
BUT -- I THINK WE ARE SPINNING OUR WHEELS FOR NO REASON.
I WOULD FIND A PROBLEM IF MR. PALERMO GOT TIRED OF ME ASKING
QUESTIONS.
EVERY QUESTION I HAVE ASKED HIM HE'S SHOT BACK A GOOD ANSWER.
SO I THINK OUR LEVEL OF COMFORT IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY BETTER
WHEN AN ATTORNEY IS SPECIFICALLY ASSIGNED TO COUNCIL.
AS THE REST OF MY COLLEAGUES, I AM COMMITTED TO THIS JOB.
AT THE SAME TIME I WANT TO PROTECT WHAT I DO.
SO WITH NO DISRESPECT TO MR. PALERMO, I FEEL COMFORTABLE RELYING
ON HIS FEEDBACK.
AND AT THE SAME TIME IF I NEEDED TO GET ANOTHER OPINION, I WOULD
TELL YOU STRAIGHT UP THAT I WOULD GET MY OWN LEGAL COUNSEL JUST
TO GIVE ME ADVICE ON A CONSULTING BASIS.
BUT I DON'T SEE WHERE WE ARE GOING WITH ASKING HIS DEPARTMENT TO
HIRE ANOTHER ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY IN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING
FOR US WHEN THE FINAL WORD IS HIS.
I KNOW THE PERCEPTION, YOU'RE RIGHT, MR. HARRISON, IS SOMETIMES
WHAT HAPPENS IN TERMS OF ALLEGIANCE WHEN MR. PALERMO HAS TO
DEFEND ADMINISTRATION VERSUS COUNCIL?
I THINK HE'S CLARIFIED HIS POSITION.
I THINK HE'S PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND.
AND I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE SITUATION AS WE HAVE IT NOW.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: TELL ME HOW ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE IS
COVERED.
OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH LIKE YOU AND YOUR STAFF RESTRICTED TO YOU
AND YOUR STAFF?
>>JAMES PALERMO: THAT'S A VERY GRAY AREA.
AT OUR LAST ETHICS SEMINAR THEY COVERED THAT, BECAUSE THE
QUESTION, WHO WAS THE CLIENT?
IS BOB BUCKHORN THE CLIENT OR CITY OF TAMPA THE CLIENT?
AND I THINK IT WOULD BE DEPENDENT ON WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE GOT INTO.
>>BOB BUCKHORN: IF IT WAS A CITY-RELATED ISSUE AND OUR
CONVERSATION WITH YOU OR ANY OTHER ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEYS,
THAT CONVERSATION WOULD REMAIN WITH THE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE
TALKING?
OR ARE YOU BECAUSE THE CLIENT IS THE CITY, FREE TO RELATE THAT
CONVERSATION TO OTHER CLIENTS WITHIN THE CITY?
>>JAMES PALERMO: WELL, THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT HAS NOT REALLY
BEEN DECIDED, MR. BUCKHORN.
OUR POSITION IS BASICALLY THIS, THAT WHEN WE DISCUSS SOMETHING,
THAT REMAINS WITH US.
WE TREAT YOU AS THE CLIENT.
IF A COURT TELLS US WE HAVE TO DIVULGE THAT INFORMATION, OF
COURSE WE WOULD DO IT.
BUT WE DON'T GO -- LET YOU -- WHAT YOU TELL US REMAINS WITH US.
WE DON'T TELL ANYONE ELSE ABOUT IT, CERTAINLY.
WE CANNOT, UNDER THE SUNSHINE LAW, CANNOT BE TO GO POLL MEMBERS
OF COUNCIL AND TELL EVERYONE ELSE WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO.
BUT WE TAKE YOU AS OUR CLIENT.
AND WHATEVER THE RULES ARE RELATIVE TO DIVULGING INFORMATION, WE
TRY TO FOLLOW THAT.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD SUGGEST, MR. BUCKHORN,
THAT IN THAT EVENT, EVERYONE IF WE WERE TO HAVE OUR OWN -- CITY
COUNCIL WERE TO HAVE ITS OWN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY, THAT SAME
ADVICE WOULD HOLD FROM HIM AS WELL AS MR. PALERMO.
ANYTHING THAT ANY OF US WOULD DISCUSS THAT WAS CITY-RELATED
BUSINESS WOULD BE HELD IN CONFIDENCE.
BUT THAT ATTORNEY, HE WOULD REPRESENT THE CITY AS ITS CLIENT AS
WELL.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE WOULD GAIN ANYTHING IN THAT REGARD BY
HIRING SOMEONE ON OUR OWN.
IF WE HAVE INDIVIDUAL QUESTIONS, THEN WE NEED OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL
ATTORNEYS.
MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. PALERMO'S ADVICE THAT THE CITY OF TAMPA, HIS
CLIENT, IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS REALLY THE MEAT OF THE
ISSUE HERE.
IT'S NOT THE ADMINISTRATION.
IT'S NOT THE CITY.
AND MR. PALERMO UNDERSTANDS VERY WELL WHEN THERE IS A CONFLICT
BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE CITY COUNCIL, THEN HE WOULD
HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT CONFLICT, AND HIS OFFICE WOULD BE IN
SOMEWHAT OF A PICKLE THEN BECAUSE THEY WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO
DIVEST THEMSELVES OF ANY SORT OF REPRESENTATION AND BRING
SOMEONE ELSE IN.
YOU CAN'T REPRESENT COMPETING INTERESTS AS AN ATTORNEY.
SO I TRUST THAT WHEN MR. PALERMO'S OFFICE FEELS THAT THERE IS A
CONFLICT, HE WILL ADVISE US.
HE WILL ADVISE THE ADMINISTRATION.
AND THEN WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON AN AS-NEEDED BASIS.
HAVING HEARD THAT, THEN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE ACHIEVED BY HIRING
AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: LET ME SEE IF I CAN SUMMARIZE THIS IN A
MINUTE OR TWO HERE.
FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM THE DISCUSSIONS OF COUNCIL MEMBERS,
I HAVE HEARD VERY LITTLE FROM THE PUBLIC AT ALL.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: THEY ARE ALL LAWYERS.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: WELL, NOT THAT PUBLIC.
WELL, THEY ARE POLLING THEMSELVES TO SEE WHICH WAY THEY ARE
GOING TO FEEL STRONGER WITH.
BUT I'M GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE PUT, JUST FOR A
RAINY DAY OR FOR USAGE, OR FOR PERCEPTION, IN CASE WE HAVE A
PERCEPTION THAT WE FEEL OR IN CASE SOME OF US FEEL STRONGLY ONE
WAY OR THE OTHER ON AN ISSUE, THAT WE SET ASIDE $10,000 FOR AN
OUTSIDE CONSULTANT TYPE INDIVIDUAL OR FIRM, HE OR SHE, TO REVIEW
THE BUDGET, IF NEEDED, IF THE COUNCIL BY MAJORITY VOTE FEELS
THAT IT'S NEEDED FOR THE MONTHS OF JULY, AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER,
TO HAVE A CONTINGENCY OF THE SAME AMOUNT IN CASE SOME COUNCIL
MEMBERS BY MAJORITY VOTE -- IT TAKES 4 -- FEEL THAT WHATEVER THE
QUESTION IS BEFORE THE COUNCIL, IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
AND THAT WAY I THINK WE CAN ALLEVIATE THE PERCEPTION THAT WE ARE
NOT GETTING WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULD BE GETTING, OR MAYBE WE ARE
GETTING TOO MUCH OF WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULDN'T BE GETTING.
GOT THAT?
I CAUGHT YOU AGAIN.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS -- I'M JUST GOING TO BRING IT UP AS A
SUGGESTION.
LET'S BRING THE FIRST ONE, IF I MAY, THAT WE SET ASIDE $10,000
SO THAT IF EVER THE FINANCE CHAIRMAN IS IN CITY COUNCIL THAT
THAT PERSON COULD ASK THE COUNCIL FOR THE RIGHT TO USE THAT
INDIVIDUAL OR GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS OR FIRM OR WHATEVER DURING
THE BUDGET PROCESS, JULY, AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, TO REVIEW THOSE
NUMBERS AND SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH.
I JUST PUT THAT UP.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'LL SECOND IT.
I HAVE A QUESTION. LET'S SAY I'M NOT THE FINANCE CHAIRMAN BUT I
HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE DEPARTMENT'S BUDGETS.
WHAT WOULD THE PROCESS BE?
WOULD I BRING IT UP AT A COUNCIL MEETING AND SAY I'D LIKE TO
ALLOCATE SOME TIME FOR THE ANALYST TO LOOK AT --.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: B AND C.
EXACTLY RIGHT.
BY MAJORITY VOTE OF FOUR, THEN THAT PROCESS WOULD CLICK IN, THAT
AVENUE.
MR. BUCKHORN?
>>BOB BUCKHORN: MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GLAD WE SEPARATED THESE
BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE TWO VERY DISTINCT ISSUES HERE.
I CAN ONLY SAY -- AND THIS IS BASED ON A LOT OF YEARS BEING
AROUND HERE -- THAT NUMBER ONE, IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT
COMPREHENSIVE CHANGE OF HOW WE BUDGET AND HOW WE RUN THIS
GOVERNMENT, WHICH I WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT -- $10,000 ISN'T
GOING TO DO IT.
SO I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT QUESTIONS WE WOULD ASK SOMEBODY THAT,
NUMBER ONE, WE SHOULDN'T KNOW OURSELVES, THAT OUR LEGISLATIVE
AIDES, IF WE USE THEM EFFECTIVELY, OR IF THEY ARE CAPABLE,
COULDN'T FERRET OUT THEMSELVES, AND SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT PURPOSE
THIS INITIATIVE WOULD HAVE.
IF WE HAVE PARTICULAR PEOPLE THAT WE WANT TO RELY ON OUTSIDE OF
CITY COUNCIL, WE ARE ALL FREE TO DO THAT.
THEY DON'T SPEAK CITY COUNCIL.
THEY ARE NOT PUBLICLY ENDORSED AS CONSULTANTS FOR CITY COUNCIL
PER SE.
BUT WE ALL DO THAT IN OUR OWN WAY, SHAPE AND FORM ANYWAY.
SO I AM GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR ONE AND SUPPORT
THE SECOND ONE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: THE RESEARCH THAT I WOULD HAVE THIS PERSON
DO IS LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, I THINK OUR
PARKS DEPARTMENT DOES A SENSATIONAL JOB WITH THE RELATIVELY
LIMITED STAFF.
AND I WOULD WANT A PERSON MAYBE TO SPEND SOME TIME ANALYZING
SOME COMMUNITIES ON OUR SCALE, WHAT IS THEIR STAFFING?
WHAT IS THEIR COMPENSATION?
TO DO SOME SORT OF COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS, OF LET'S SAY FOR THE
MUNICIPALITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA DO IN TERMS OF THEIR
PARKS.
THAT KIND OF RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS.
I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE SOMEBODY DO.
I AM NOT SAYING I AM GOING TO ASK FOR THAT PARTICULAR THING BUT
HE'S THE SORT OF THING I WOULD NOT WANT TO LEAN ON A FRIEND OF
MINE, BECAUSE THAT WOULD, A, LOOK SELF-SERVING, B, IT'S GOING TO
TAKE SEVERAL HOURS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL TIME.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE -- BE ABLE TO ASK SOMEONE ON CONTRACT TO DO
THAT.
>>GWEN MILLER: A POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
ARE WE GOING TO HAVE THIS PERSON AS NEEDED?
OR A PERMANENT PERSON?
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NOTHING PERMANENT.
I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED NOW.
I THOUGHT IT WAS TO LOOK AT A BUDGET.
BUT WHEN YOU START MAKING COMPARISONS, YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND
$100,000 EASY.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANYBODY TO DO THAT, IN MY OPINION.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THREE OTHER PEOPLE ON
COUNCIL AGREE WITH ME THAT IT'S WORTH RESEARCHING.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I BELIEVE MR. HARRISON THEN MR. BUCKHORN.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD
COMPROMISE.
I DON'T THINK WE ARE GOING TO GET MUCH FOR $10,000.
BUT I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT IT HURTS ANYTHING TO SET IT ASIDE IN
CASE THERE IS AN EVENT IN THE FUTURE, NEXT FISCAL YEAR, THAT WE
THINK IT MIGHT BE NECESSARY.
IT'S A GOOD TRIAL BALLOON TO FLOAT.
IF WE DETERMINE AT THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR THAT WE HAVE
SPENT $10,000 AND WE DON'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS SPENT WISELY, THEN
FOR NEXT YEAR WE CAN SAY THIS JUST WASN'T A GOOD IDEA.
AND MR. BUCKHORN, WHO HAS BEEN HERE FOR MUCH LONGER THAN MANY OF
US, HIS ADVICE MAY VERY WELL PAN OUT TO BE TRUE.
BUT I THINK SETTING $10,000 ASIDE DOESN'T HURT ANYTHING.
IF WE USE IT WE USE IT.
IF WE DON'T, THEN THAT'S FINE.
>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: FURTHER DISCUSSION?
MR. BUCKHORN?
>>BOB BUCKHORN: I'LL GO AHEAD AND SUPPORT THE MOTION IF IT'S
JUST A GENERIC $10,000 IN THE EVENT THAT WE NEED ADVICE ON A
WHOLE HOST OF THINGS.