continued...Part 2 of 3
When I originally developed this idea for this type of facility, I approached several clients of mine.
I'm also an attorney.
Two of those gentlemen, David Georgioni and David Mico were willing to commit their resources.
They purchased the property through key special services, Inc. They have committed to make donations for the development of the property and the project, together with other individuals.
And we look at getting strictly public funding from businesses and individuals.
It's not a situation seeking any kind of state or federal moneys.
And these individuals have the wherewithal, and have already committed the resources to get the project where it is, and have committed resources to go forward in the future so that the project can get under way and achieve its goal of helping women.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Any other questions?
>>ROSE FERLITA: Maybe this has already been addressed but just to -- suppose in this scenario speaking hypothetically that that private funding dries up.
What happens to that particular site?
>>GINA GRIMES: With respect to the special use petition, special use petition would still be in place.
That's why it's very important that all the conditions on the site plan are closely reviewed and address all the concerns, and establish that it meets the code criteria.
Because even if the private funding dries up the special use would be in place so subsequent property owners could use it for similar type use, just operating under the conditions that are identified on the site plan.
>>ROSE FERLITA: That's what was my concern.
Thank you.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Other questions.
>>GWEN MILLER: If they apply for federal grants and change the use?
>>GINA GRIMES: If they change the use or change any of the conditions on the site plan they would have to come back with a special use approval.
Their funding has nothing to do with this land use decision on a special use approval.
But what you need to understand is if you approve this special use, with these conditions on the site plan, it doesn't matter who the property owner is, whether it's Florida Hope and Rehab or any other group.
The use of the property is going to be governed by the conditions on the site plan.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: I have a question for the petitioner.
We received a letter with a suggestion, a 24-hour off-duty police guard the facility 7 days a week.
I thought that was an interesting suggestion.
I wondered what you were planning to do in terms of security on the facility.
>> We already have in our plans to do 24-hour security.
We weren't planning on hiring an off-duty patrolman but we were planning on hiring not only in-house private security, but an outside resource security, 24 hours.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: The site plan says here it will maintain 24-hour manned security.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Any other questions by council members?
Any other comments?
Ms. Grimes, to reiterate, the public hearing has been closed.
We have a report from legal incorporating the requests made.
>>GINA GRIMES: You have a motion on the floor.
The exact motion stated on the council agenda.
You requested that the legal department to revise the ordinance, include the site plan conditions, and the ordinance also have a one-year conditional, which both of those items have already been done.
So it was a motion, I believe, to do both of those items.
Even though that particular motion did not pass, we went ahead and made those rescissions.
So now it's up to council to -- you vote on that particular motion, which is for legal to revise the ordinance and present it back.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Mr. Harrison.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. White made a good argument.
You know, I think that given the one-year conditional, this would potentially take sort of a wait-and-see approach.
Mr. White is the district representative for the area.
However, Ms. Miller was the district representative for the area for eight years.
And we have a conflict between two of them as to whether they think this is a good thing for that neighborhood.
Because of that, we are all sort of on our own.
We have to sort of feel our way through this.
The thing that strikes me is in section 27-269, the third paragraph, ultimately what we have to decide is whether this use is compatible with contiguous and surrounding property.
And I think we heard loudly and clearly from that neighborhood, and certainly from the immediate neighbors, the folks right next door, and right behind, that it is not compatible.
And I appreciate the staff's recommendation.
They make technical analyses.
And ultimately it becomes our decision.
We are the finder of fact.
And we have to determine whether or not compatibility exists.
I just don't think that it does in this instance, because of the size of this facility.
I appreciate it was at one point a 100 bed ALF.
If this were smaller, I think that this would probably be something that I would be willing to give them that one-year chance to see if they could make it work.
But it's up to 70 patients.
I think that is big.
I think that could be overpowering for the contiguous property owners.
And therefore I'm not going to support it.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Any more discussion?
Mrs. Alvarez.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Just one thing that strikes me that this facility has been empty for five years.
The property for five years, nobody has apparently had any interest in it.
So I feel that a lot of people, there's always some people who are going to be for something and other people are going to be against it.
And in my view, in my opinion, I think this is the best use for this property here.
So I will support it.
>>KEVIN WHITE: I would just like to make it perfectly clear, in rebuttal to what Mr. Harrison said, this is a facility that's on 40th Street.
It abuts a neighborhood.
And yes, this is a commercial district.
It has a large record company right next door to it which is not compatible to a neighborhood, directly next door to that is a lounge that operates and has 3 or 400 people in the parking lot every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, which we don't get many calls on as far as that's concerned.
On the other side we have another commercial business which is a funeral home, which is on the other side of that.
Now, I don't see how a lounge and record company and a funeral home is also compatible with the neighborhood.
But not even looking at the compatibility so much, I'm looking at the needs of the community.
The things that I hear every town hall meeting, every meeting I go to, is drugs, drugs, drugs.
What are we going to do about getting drugs out of our neighborhood?
That's the number one concern.
And here we are with a facility that is willing to come in and reach out -- now granted, they didn't -- maybe they didn't reach out the way that we thought they should have.
And maybe they should be slapped on the wrist for that for whatever reason.
I don't know.
I wasn't there.
I had nothing to do with that.
But I don't think that that's a reason to not give them an opportunity to help our neighborhood, and to help our women and our community, to get and live a more productive life.
This is the black community that we are representing who is going down fast.
And these are people that need help.
Most of us in here, maybe we don't need help.
But some of our family members have needed help.
And there was nobody there to help them.
And I think this facility needs to be given a chance to prove themselves for one year.
If they can't, it has to be what's there for five years, we need to throw them out after the year if they haven't proven themselves.
But I think the black community deserves an opportunity to be saved by something or someone that is not mandated on federal dollars, and mandated by a shoestring, if when get a grant next year, the opportunity, we will keep our doors open.
That's write stand.
>>GWEN MILLER: You know, we have drugs in east Tampa, yes.
But this is not going to clean the drugs off the street.
You are not going to go pick them up and put them in this facility.
You are going to have to do more.
You have to clean the drugs up in east Tampa.
I have been working eight years to clean the drugs up.
And it's not going to help because when we do -- it's not going to put them in that facility.
It's not going to help.
And I am working on that bar to close them down.
And I know the neighbors are going to work with me to continue closing them down.
You can't close them down in one day.
We know the process of closing a bar down.
And I have been working up.
What is a funeral home going to do to a neighborhood?
We need funeral homes because you said how many killings have we had at that bar?
We need that funeral home there.
Going to 49th Street and pick them up.
Pick them up and put them in this facility.
But we can't dot when we have facilities we can use.
I am not going to agree with that.
It's not going to close up -- clean up the drugs in east Tampa.
Put something else if you want a business there. We need a lot of things in that area for jobs for these people so they won't be on drugs.
So if that's what you want to do, let's put it there.
I will go with something different.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: There's been a motion and second.
All in favor say Aye.
Say it louder.
All those in favor say Aye.
All those opposed, Nay.
The petition failed 3 to 4.
>>GINA GRIMES: This was a motion to revise the ordinance.
>>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion we deny.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: There's a motion and second to deny the petition.
Mr. Dingfelder.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just clarification on the motion.
Mrs. Ferlita, you spoke -- both you and Mrs. Miller, actually, had many different reasons earlier in the record.
And I just wanted to know if you were incorporating those reasons that you stated in your motion and your second.
>>GWEN MILLER: Put them in there.
>>GINA GRIMES: Also, for failure to comply with section 27-272 and 27.
I think Mr. Harrison identified 27 through 69 as well.
Failure to comply with those criteria.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: There's been a motion and second for denial.
All those in favor say Aye.
Opposed, Nay.
So it passed -- oh, wait.
Sorry.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That was --.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: It was a motion for denial.
So if you voted yes you are voting yes for denial.
If you vote Nay, you are against denial.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Nay.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Thank you.
So it was a 4-3 vote.
I just want to make the audience aware that the council members who didn't attend last week's meeting reviewed the proceedings.
Thank you very much.
We are going to take a five-minute recess.
(Brief recess)
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Tampa City Council is called back into session.
Roll call.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: (No response.).
>>GWEN MILLER: Here.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Under unfinished business, item C, we now go to our 10:30 discussion.
The council members who did not attend the previous meeting had an opportunity to review the information by videotape.
>>JACK MORRISS: Jack Morriss, public works department.
I do have some copies of some information that applied to some of you individually.
I will be happy to provide it if you don't have the copies with you.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
>>JACK MORRISS: At last week's council meeting, council members decided to continue the decision on the current resolution in the ordinance.
In the discussion that we had last week, there were several concerns expressed by a number of different citizens, the park, the downtown in Ybor City.
And one of the things we thought would be appropriate is to have Gene Bressler, our parking manager, briefly discuss a few of those concerns.
I think it will be good information, and address some of those concerns that those folks had and perhaps help you better understand some of the issues and certainly help some of the citizens that park downtown, particularly that express a number of concerns.
So I would like to have gene take a few moment and address soft issues.
>>GENE BRESSLER: City of Tampa parking manager.
Like Jack said there were a couple of issues that came up that I think would be beneficial for you to just have some knowledge on.
For example, I don't know, there were maybe a couple people mention board of director change, getting quarters and so forth.
There are five locations downtown that you can pick up change.
Pierce, the courthouse, 800 Twiggs, at the courthouse, 601 east Kennedy Boulevard, the county center, the Marion transit center, and crosstown one, down by the convention center.
The other issue is about people getting tickets, and what our policy was in terms of when is a ticket valid, you know, when is it official?
Our policy is that once the last informational piece is added to the hand held it becomes an official public record.
Before that time, our enforcement people have the authority to void that ticket.
But once that last bit of information is recorded and as you are recording information, the ticket is being printed.
But we don't like to put that amount of stress on the enforcement people where they would be out there voiding tickets that are public record.
There are other options.
People can go to court if they have a problem with the ticket.
Our management personnel also deal with people when they have -- they feel like there's something that wasn't legitimate or unfair.
So there are many options to deal with that.
Another issue is, I don't know if you knew this, there's the grace period on each meter.
Once the time period is over, and before the flag comes up as expired, there's a two to three-minute interval before the expired tag comes up.
So you have a couple of minutes to go back, before the meter expires, is what I am saying.
And I know some people say that right away it comes up, and we have an enforcement person standing behind each meter in downtown Tampa, which is, you know, absolutely not true.
We do all -- we have like three walking zones and five writing zones in the downtown area.
The walking zone takes about 20 minutes to go through, the writing zone.
It takes about 40 minutes, because they are larger zones.
Everything is random.
If we see a meter that's two minutes, that person goes by there, the enforcement person, they don't stand and wait for the meter to expire.
One of the other issues is signage on meters, which we agree that there are some confusions, and we had a discussion with the downtown partnership.
It's probably been a month and a half ago, that we would get with them to define the better wordage or verbiage for these signs.
So that's something that we will be redoing.
I think the biggest one is when there's a freight zone that's applicable for so many hours, then it becomes a meter, there is also the other one about the two-hour time limit for parking.
And when we did that initially, went through legal, we tried to get the best verbiage that would make the most sense for people to understand it.
But there probably could be another way of doing it so that's something we are looking into.
One of the things, too, was the Whiting Street garage and its appearance.
Over the years, we have delayed some of the repair at that facility, because there are various projects that maybe this facility is going to be used in a development.
So we have in this year's budget the FY-2004, we have three years of allocations of money.
83,000 next year to improve the light.
I think that was one of the things that came up.
2005 and six.
There's $230,000 each in those budgets to allocate for that facility.
The multi-space meter.
We are going to be doing that test probably sometime in October.
We have to do resolution to get with the vendor to make sure that everything is legal.
These meters cost around $79,000 each.
When you compare that to what a standard meter is, you are talking about $150 per meter.
Usually, one of these multi-space meters will take up six to eight meters.
So we are talking about expense of $790 to 912.
Now one of the things in the report was there was a 40% increase in the revenues.
But after talking with them, one of the things they have done, and we would never do that.
They have not designated a space.
It allows as many people to squeeze in as a block.
We don't do that.
We have designated spaces, lines to do that.
That's why they said the revenues have gone up because they can put more than 8 or 10 people.
They can put whatever number in a block.
The other problem -- it's not a problem, but like when you go to a meter now and you pull away, and there's time left on the meter, the next person coming in can add to that time.
These multi-space meters, that person doesn't know that.
So every time you pull away, you get that extra revenue, you don't have that residual.
So that's one of the things, too, that you deal with.
And one other thing, when you go to the meter, you get a receipt, and you put it in your car.
And some of these people have had problems with enforcement, because you can't read what is put in the car so you give them the benefit of the doubt.
And we have heard that the citations are down because of that.
But again, we are looking at all these things.
We did a test period July and August where we measured how many tickets we wrote, at the single-space meter.
We saw the revenues that we collect at the meters.
We are going to of course compare those things.
The advantage of this meter is you can use your credit card.
We checked with Miami.
Miami said that they are only using only one percent of the revenue they collected as a result of the credit cards.
So there's many, many options with this.
But there's also the fall-back of what it costs, but we will look at all those things after our test in October.
And I think the last thing was someone mentioned about vagrants.
I assumed that when this lady was talking, she was talking about on the street.
Now, you know, we have facilities, ten garages, 21 lots, 14,000 spaces.
We averaged, it was like 45 incidents in a six-month period, and comparing we are a 24-7 operation in some facilities, we deal with the entertainment district in Ybor where there's a lot of problems with vandalism and things like that, I think for 45 in six months that's not a bad number to deal with.
But again, we chase the vagrants out of our facilities.
We do not allow vagrants to stay in the facilities.
That's all I have unless you have some questions for me.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Bressler, it's my understanding that the courtesy ticket policy in Ybor City is an administrative function, an administrative decision as to when you will enforce it, when you will not enforce it, if you are going to continue with the courtesy tickets or not, and that's not really something that's within our purview here today, that we can at best request the administration if they follow a particular policy.
But we don't have direct control of that in respect to what we are being asked for here today.
>>> That's correct.
>> And would that same thing hold true with the -- I think it's one dollar to park, or maybe the first three hours are free in certain locations in Ybor.
>>> In the garages now?
>> Yes.
>>> Two hours are free.
Up to four hours, it's a dollar.
>> Is that across the board?
Or that's just business hours, right?
>>> Up to a certain time on the weekends when we start collecting, a special rate, I think it's on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights after 10:00.
It's a $5 fee.
If a person is in there after their three or four-hour period, they are still paying the hourly fee.
>> Is that part of the ordinance that we are being asked to vote on here today?
The elimination of that one dollar?
>>> Actually, we are asking that -- it's going to be where it's a dollar for three hours.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: But that's been the order.
>>> Yes.
Resolution.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Other questions by council members?
Mrs. Alvarez.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Bressler, the courtesy tickets that Mr. Harrison was talking about, I understand that it's an administrative function.
Can you tell me how many tickets are being issued between ten and nine -- from ten a.m. to nine p.m.?
>>> Our policy is courtesy tickets are issued 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday.
So we don't issue courtesy tickets after ten.
So 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday is when we issue courtesy tickets.
>> How many courtesy tickets have been issued within that period?
Because I question this $250,000 that you are going to get by eliminating the courtesy tickets.
>>> We averaged -- and this is back the first part of the year, the first five months.
It was over a thousand a month.
That we wrote courtesy tickets on.
>> In Ybor City?
>>> Yes, ma'am.
>> That's very hard for me to believe.
There's barely a thousand people walking the streets on Monday through Friday, during the day.
Now if you tell me that you are going to do this after 9:00 at night, then I'll say, yes, maybe.
But I can't believe that between 8 a.m. to 6:00 even, you are going to get a thousand people that you are going to be giving courtesy tickets to.
>>> Well, this is what we have from MIS, from the ticket system.
>> I still don't believe it.
Anyway.
Then I will address this with the mayor since it's a decision that that she makes.
>>> Okay.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
>>GWEN MILLER: On the same point, courtesy tickets in Ybor -- that's what we would like to do with this resolution, a $250,000 item we are talking about annually.
>>GWEN MILLER: I feel it's going to hurt Ybor City, bringing people down there for lunch, and that's why they go down because they have the courtesy parking.
They can park in Ybor and have time to get back without paying a fee.
I feel like it's going to be bad for Ybor City.
>>GENE BRESSLER: I guess the point that I would like to make is that the concessions we have made, 7th Avenue, there's no meters on.
You can park two hours free.
>> But how many people can park?
>>> The garage is up to this point, you can park free for three hours.
So then if we don't start enforcing on Saturday until 10:00 p.m.
So I'm not sure that -- I guess we are trying to increase the rates, or the fine, to a certain amount.
And then we say, okay, Ybor City, you guys can do it free.
That's the only thing.
It's a conflict with me.
But that's me.
>> Is there anywhere else in the city they can park free all day like Hyde Park?
>>> Oh, Hyde Park, yes.
>> I was going to say.
>>> There's no meters there either.
There's no garages.
>> Are you going to change their parking in Hyde Park?
>>> Well, I don't know if that's something we are going to do at this point.
That's something we are addressing.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Bressler, have you just said that this was an administrative decision on the courtesy tickets?
Why didn't you do it in the ordinance?
>>GENE BRESSLER: Well, the cost, I think, is what you are seeing in terms of the impact.
I don't think that's in the ordinance.
>>JACK MORRISS: Public works.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I believe he just said that it was going to be part of the ordinance.
>>GENE BRESSLER: No.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: It's not.
Okay.
>>JACK MORRISS: What we provided to City Council members is analysis of overall revenue situation for the parking division.
And the administrative decision, that's the one item that appears in there, it's an administrative decision that the past administration directed the parking staff to do, and presenting this and discussing it with Mayor Iorio, it's our decision at this point where we are searching for revenues, and we are looking at an equity issue throughout the parking system that it would be more appropriate to not issue courtesy tickets anywhere.
And so we show that to you all as an item to understand the revenue implications of it on the parking system.
The resolution that you have before you addresses all of the other items, and the ordinance that you have before you addresses the fine amounts that could be changed.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: To clarify for council, the resolution before us is the one that we saw last week.
I have asked legal, and they prepared resolutions that reflect proposal B and proposal C also.
So however we direct and we haven't already written up.
Mr. Harrison, and Mr. Dingfelder.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I just want to clarify.
I think the issue is, there's a difference between the resolution and ordinance.
And what we could do, if we were so inclined, is ask the administration to continue the policy of the courtesy tickets.
But go ahead and pass any changes that we felt were appropriate.
Right?
>>JACK MORRISS: That's my understanding.
>>GINA GRIMES: We could request an administrative decision.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Now is the resolution, not the ordinance, the resolution, is it going to address the elimination of courtesy tickets in Ybor City?
>>> No, it is not.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Okay.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm a little confused.
We can draft any resolution we wish, correct?
I mean, and the reason I say that is, instead of just merely requesting verbally, or through a vote that the mayor consider doing this, because that's what we have asked, can't we tag that as a condition of the rest of the resolution, that they provide one courtesy notice in Ybor City?
>>GINA GRIMES: Really, it's an enforcement issue.
It's up to them to decide whether to issue a real ticket or courtesy ticket.
That's an enforcement issue.
Because what you are saying is rather than calling it a courtesy ticket you want to not charge for parking during certain times of the day.
And that's a different issue.
The courtesy ticket issuance of a courtesy ticket is an enforcement issue and it is within the jurisdiction of the administration to decide whether or not to enforce it or whether or not to issue the courtesy ticket.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I am saying is, if we set these other fees, pursuant to one of these parameters that are here, can't we condition the setting of those fees, also using the courtesy ticket as well?
>>GINA GRIMES: So, in other words, to allow for free parking during certain times of day?
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not necessarily just free.
But specifically using the courtesy approach.
>>GINA GRIMES: Your jurisdiction is over the fees.
Or however you want to structure the fee resolutions within your jurisdiction.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: While that's sinking in, do we have anything else?
Mrs. Alvarez.
Mr. Harrison.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I guess the question is, can we say we will act on the fee increases which is within our purview, if you, administration, continue the policy of courtesy tickets?
And if you don't continue that policy, then our increase in the fees is null and void.
>>GINA GRIMES: The code provides simply that council has jurisdiction to set fees, parking fees by resolution.
So if you don't want tickets to be issued, then you need to set the fee at zero, as opposed to getting into the issue of courtesy tickets versus actual tickets.
That's really what you need to decide.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Mrs. Alvarez.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: For point of clarification, we can make a motion to request -- not even request -- make a motion that we want to allow one courtesy ticket only in the Ybor City area?
>>GINA GRIMES: You can make that motion.
It's within the administration's purview to decide whether or not to enforce issuance of parking tickets.
It's within their jurisdiction, not council's.
You can certainly make a motion requesting that.
But it's within your jurisdiction to make that final decision.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Aha.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then perhaps since we don't have a lot of legal authority to be demanding that, then perhaps what we can do is request that if this council agrees to this, that the administration, before we vote on it, would agree, if it's the council's pleasure, majority, that the administration would verbally agree to provide one single courtesy ticket.
Maybe we just table it until the administration can tell us if that's their leaning.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: While we are thinking about that, we also have the opportunity to hear from -- there's some discussion about whether we would hear from the public on this because we have already had a major public discussion.
But since we have some new information before us, that's up to council.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Let me clarify one more thing.
If we were to not adjust the free parking in the Ybor City garages, for the first three hours, if we were to leave that free, rather than raising to the a dollar, it's my understanding that the financial impact of that is about $100,000 a year.
>>> That's correct.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: So if we wanted to try to tinker around with these rates here, we might be able to find a way to keep that rate in effect, which I'm still not clear whether we have the jurisdiction to set that rate or if that's more of an administrative function that the mayor decides she's going to enforce that or not.
Maybe you all can clarify that while we hear from somebody.
>>JACK MORRISS: We would be happy to do that but there are two points I would like to make quickly.
It's my understanding that the only administrative issue that was shown to you, because it has the significant revenue implications, is the policy that we currently are doing to provide the courtesy tickets.
The other thing for you all to consider, too, if you wish to make motions about making additional adjustments or amendments or coming out with another option or scenario, is that the revenue implications for this are about a quarter million dollar.
We have a revenue shortfall problem which I know all of you understand and accept.
So as we make further adjustments, we have to make a corresponding or an adjustment to that so that we can compensate for whatever revenue loss you all might deem to be most appropriate so we can balance that in another area.
And as we discussed last week, and as you well know in the discussions that we have had with you, that there are many different factors here, and some of them are in opposition to others, and we can't make everybody happy.
We can't make a unanimous uniform decision.
So it's a difficult challenge not only for the administration but certainly for City Council.
So please don't forget, if you choose, to send such a motion to the administration, or make that request, that it has to be an adjustment in our mind to compensate for that.
And we heard from many of you last week, and you gave us some guidance and some suggestions and some recommendations, and trying to fit all of those things together into what we believe was a consensus, we came back with these two choices.
And we still believe that either the current one that's before you or these two options are overall the most appropriate things that we can do.
And each one of those does in fact have the complimentary -- or the certificate issued going away and us not issuing those anymore.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Council members, would you like to hear from the audience?
Because it might impact.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Could I ask one teeny little question?
The parking situation, the parking situation and the parking garage in Ybor City, I believe it was an administrative, because the actual agreement was with central Ybor was, central Ybor was one dollar for three hours.
And it was zero for three hours.
As it is now.
It's zero for three hours.
You pay nothing -- if you go over the throw hours, then you pay whatever.
I believe that was an administrative decision at that time.
Am I correct on that?
>>> It was a resolution.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Mr. Bressler, if you could come up and speak to that briefly.
>>GENE BRESSLER: It was a resolution that between the development, the development agreement, to I guess there was negative neutral, or revenue neutral that we would go $5 at 10:00 versus giving that three hours for a dollar.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: But in the beginning, what I am saying, it was zero.
>>GENE BRESSLER: Like you said, the initial like that, then they came to us to try to do something else, the developers, and the resolution was passed to allow that to happen where now you get two hours free, pay a dollar, then the $5 rate at 10:00 on Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So now we are at one dollar for the parking garage, the central Ybor.
It will be.
>>GENE BRESSLER: If we go.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's in the resolution now?
>>GENE BRESSLER: Yes, ma'am.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes, ma'am.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a quick comment in regard to Mr. Morriss's comment on the budget impact of this.
We are talking about $250,000.
It's my understanding the total budget for parking according to our books here is $22 million.
So if we are talking about $250,000, that to me is 1.1% of the total part of the budget.
So I just want to clarify, $250 is a lot of money to everybody.
But it's still only 1% of the total budget.
And frankly, I think everybody, within tight times, tighten up a little bit, and do that.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Okay.
We will now hear from the public briefly to speak on the new figures that are before us.
>>MARK SHIMBERG: Holland and Knight.
I'm the current chair of the Tampa downtown partnership.
You heard from us last week and you heard from a lot of downtown workers who voiced a very loud concern about the proposed increases in the monthly rates, and the downtown garages especially.
The proposal was to increase those rates 20%, which we were concerned about and suggested it was too much.
The next proposal that you saw last week was 15%, which we also had some concerns about.
The second option here that has the monthly increases at 10%, we think, is about the right number.
We understand the situation the city is in.
And we are supportive of that 10% increase.
I know that a lost these other issues as you just heard from Mr. Morriss affect the numbers.
So we appreciate the administration hearing our concerns.
We support the 10% increase, even though I think a lot of the people you heard from last week would support anything but I understand the situation the city is in.
We are not trying to make it more complicated or make it more difficult for anybody.
Frankly, we are not even sure why we don't have courtesy tickets downtown.
But we are not suggesting do you that.
So we would support the 10 percent increase.
We think that there may still be a little bit of room to play with the hourly rates in the garages if you need to find a little more money.
But we would ask you to keep the increases at no more than 10%.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Any questions for Mr. Shimberg?
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Under the second option, the middle option, the fines would go from 15 to $22.
And they are okay with that?
>>> Yes.
>> What if we want to go from 15 to 25, which would raise some more money, which would enable us to be a little more creative on some of these other issues?
>>> It's hard for us to answer that question.
The same we talked about last week.
I think the administration had a concern that was getting too high.
And we felt like it was absolutely appropriate in the illegal parking spots and the expired metered spots, that's quite a bit.
But you did hear from us last week saying that our biggest concern was the increase in the monthly parking.
So whatever you have to do to keep that increase no more than 10%, I think we would be appreciative of that.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Next.
>> Good morning.
Annette Delong, City of Tampa commerce, east 8th Avenue.
We work with the parking department as much as we can in partnership.
We have no problems with a dollar for three hours at the parking garages.
I think that's more than fair.
I don't think it's going to deter anyone from coming to Ybor City.
The courtesy tickets are another matter.
That's a real big issue.
I think why they had so many courtesy tickets to begin with, and in a period of time, we had different meters happening different times.
We had no-parking on seventh, and we had parking.
I think it was a learning curve.
I don't know why the numbers are for -- let's say the past six months or the past nine months, how many courtesy tickets were given out, and how much revenue was lost.
We always have to remember that we are a historic landmark district.
And I'm very cognizant of this when I go to other historic landmark districts and I see nothing for parking, and there's plenty of parking available for our visitors, whether they be local or from out of state or from out of country.
So we are in favor of keeping the one courtesy ticket.
I know that is not before you.
But if we can convince the administration in any way to keep that courtesy tickets.
It just shows that we are a good neighbor and we welcome our visitors and it's very important that has a million or two million people that come to Ybor City every year and feel welcome.
Thank you.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Next.
>> Joseph Capitano, Sr., 3400 West Lakes, Tampa.
I thank you for your consideration of not eliminating completely the courtesy tickets in Ybor City.
Being a historic district, I think we leave an awful bad taste during the day if a tourist comes to Ybor City, having to park, goes to lunch, and comes back ten minutes later and here's a ticket.
And I understand what Mr. Bressler is saying.
But it seems like you have three metered maids running around giving tickets.
So we have create add system where we are living off of fines.
And it's pretty tough.
I just parked here in the downtown.
I come up for a meeting in the past.
And my schedule is at 3:30 but they don't see me till 4:30.
I am not going to mention any names.
So I put two hours in.
An hour and a half wait to have a meeting.
I come back there 15, $17 ticket.
I don't feel like I'm a criminal, you know.
So I really am concerned about how much you do go up on that part of it.
But in Ybor City the courtesy tickets are very useful.
And I don't think that people are getting the second -- I think they are learning.
And I appreciate that.
The other thing, again, the fines, I think you ought to be reasonable, because we are not criminals when we overpark in a legitimate parking place.
Illegal parking place, that's different.
The other thing I don't think anyone brought into consideration is the amount of tax increases in Ybor City the last two years has been astronomical.
That's something that we need business in Ybor City.
And this is one way keeping people in Ybor City.
I appreciate anything you can do to make this happen and keep the courtesy ticket at least one.
Thank you.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Next.
>>> My name is Jimmy Calamaz, 3305 West San Rose Street.
I'm the owner of Lawnwood Furniture in Ybor City.
We have been there 72 years.
And I understand Mr. Bressler, he's got budget constraints, and has to generate revenue.
But it's been a struggle in Ybor City.
And we have been there 72 years.
We have been through good times, bad times there.
You know, with the streetcar coming into play, we had to shut down for about five or six months.
That hurt revenue for us.
And then we have had to tighten up.
And plus our property taxes.
Last year we got hit with 38% increase in property taxes.
This year they hit me with a 51% increase in property taxes.
And it's been pretty difficult.
And I'm just hoping that the council will consider trying to generate incentives for people to be in Ybor City rather than roadblocks.
And we feel that any type of increase at all is going to create a roadblock.
For people that come down to Ybor City.
And my goal is hopefully one of my kids will want to take over the business and keep it going.
We would like to be there another 72 years.
But I think that council needs to figure out what really do we want to try to accomplish down in Ybor City?
There's a lot of positive things, and we have the potential to do, but, you know, if situations like this keep people from coming down to Ybor City, it's not really helping us.
And, also, we have a lot of empty buildings down there, too.
I know we have talked about there's a thousand courtesy tickets going a month.
But right now, during the day, there's not really that many buildings being open during the day.
There's a lot of night business.
And I'm not saying -- that's really kind of what's created the excitement down in Ybor City has been the nighttime entertainment.
But I think the goal is to try to get us to where we can get families and get people to come down to Ybor City, shop during the day, and make it more different type of environment.
And again, whatever consideration council could do to work with us, on the other administration has got their goals.
But I think there's ways.
If I could answer Mr. Bressler, or maybe you all could ask.
You see there's increase in revenue from $5 to $12 with special event for parking.
How much more revenue is that going to generate?
That's a pretty big increase.
That's 140% increase.
Then you have also 60% increase from $5 to $8.
And parking down in that Centro Ybor.
I don't know how much more is that going to generate?
Because you are only talking a quarter million dollar, you know, as far as the parking meters.
And whatever help that council can do, we appreciate it.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
We have those numbers.
That was part of the work-up.
Mr. Knott.
>>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: My name is Moses Knott, Jr., I reside at 2902 East Ellicott Street.
And you know, I I'm one of the guys that helped create Ybor, Ybor City.
I spoke on every hearing.
The only thing, I was sitting back there a little while ago after hearing you all fight against drugs and all that kind of stuff.
But we been talking about parking right now.
But I was talking awhile ago, say you can park in Ybor City three hours free, you know.
Now that's a good thing.
But I don't know when it changed.
But one time in Ybor City, people were scared to come to Ybor City because of the parking, come to Ybor City and park there.
Now what happened, I was sitting here talking awhile ago.
Now after 10:00 at night, like I told you all about Tampa stadium, you all used missed the boat on this Tampa stadium thing.
And same thing you all are going to do in Ybor City if you play your cards right.
If you don't play your cards right you will make a killing on Ybor City but the time eight right for raising no parking fees right now in Ybor City.
Like the gentleman just said, you want to entice people to come over there, you know.
I want to say, you know, in the season, I work part-time as a Porter loading people on boats down by the Quay, and in the morning, we park over there in the parking lot, and they would hang you.
And I think you all should do something about that.
In the daytime there ain't nothing going on.
Same thing.
Oh like right now I ride the bus downtown.
I took my car to the mall and caught a bus downtown.
One time I like lost my vehicle coming down here.
It was terrible.
People have a fear of coming downtown or going to Ybor City about this parking thing.
But I think you should hold that fee where it is.
And like at Tampa at night, after I told you all about Tampa stadium, some people pack in Ybor City about 10:00. You all should raise from $5 up, get a lot of money like that.
But like I said, you all should get them tours.
You all should really get them tourists.
But I'm thinking you all missed the boat on that.
Everybody all over the country charge more money, people are parking free.
And all the money they can get.
Now definitely you all missed the boat there.
And every four or five years when Ybor City is packed, go up there and you all get them tourists.
Clean them out.
Leave all that money here.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
>>> Joe Robinson, 2330 Palmetto Street, property owner in Ybor City until I sell my property over there.
Parking garages in Tampa, having designed the palace sparking garage, I remember we was talking $some 10th,000 a space.
What happened, Centro Ybor.
What's happening here is this:
We have these development agreements and we give away a lot of parking in these parking facilities.
We had to give a lot of parking spaces to get the deal down at the Ice Palace.
We had to guarantee some of the parking spaces.
Okay?
Centro Ybor, I think mayor Dick Greco got booted over having his car towed over there.
Parking was a big issue when the car was going to get his car booted, and there was a big stink about parking.
Parking over there in Ybor City, haven't seen now like the 15 minutes have gone to 2 hours.
The problem was that we had this Centro Ybor project that we gave everything away to, including the fact we have stormwater issues that developed from it.
We had parking issues.
And there's no metered parking.
Parking had to be developed.
That's why the city thought about the way to smooth this thing over so there was enough parking garages.
Had another one that Fernando Noriega built.
There's been some additional.
People charging $10.
It was all over the place because it was not planned properly.
It took us now about five, six years.
We have come to a planning process for parking.
So the development on the parking structures have somewhat created this issue.
But now we have the parking structures in place.
The developers still had their development agreement to still get their deal for having done their $40 million deal at the Centro Ybor, 208, whichever money it was.
That was the real issue.
So I think the courtesy issue needs to be dealt with, I think would be entertaining to limit that completely.
And I know the mayor is listening waiting for the police chief to get in there so we don't enforce the tickets.
And it was a poor planning.
We have always had that poor vision.
But we have given away a lot of our parking capabilities to development.
And now what we need to do is as we future develop the area is make sure that those developers provide that parking, provide that money to help us offset the construction of parking facilities.
Because when I go to Ybor City, and I want to pull up, run in the bank, I don't want to go all the way to the parking garage to run into the bank for two or three minutes.
I appreciate the parking department for having allowed the two hours to come back mostly on 7th Avenue when you had to pay.
I think with the addition of parking garages when people come on the weekend, they don't mind parking.
Because I don't go to Ybor City on the weekends because of the parking problems and the fact you have to go park and walk.
So I think staff has come a long way.
But the history of how they got here is why we are here today.
I think it's been resolved.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Next.
>>> Christine verdict, the president of the Tampa downtown partnership.
Maybe as a final presentation on our part, to be clear, you are facing a big dilemma, as are we all.
And it is not our intention to make it difficult for anyone.
And we want downtown to flourish so that we don't have to worry about parking fees.
But to be clear, by continuing the policy, the courtesy tickets, increasing the meter fine sounds like one of the possibilities to offset that, the cost of the courtesy tickets.
Since courtesy tickets are offered in Ybor only, that will mean that the predominant would be -- people fined at the downtown meters.
So I would request that what you approve today encourages and includes that possibility of phasing out that concept of courtesy tickets while you next year seek other sources of revenue.
And operational cost savings so that the new increases next year can be prevented or kept to a minimum.
For Ybor as well as downtown and all the business districts.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thanks.
Would anyone else care to speak on this?
I have asked legal to come up with alternatives for the resolution that would affect the fees.
I believe the ordinance just speaks -- well, what is the pleasure of council?
Mr. White.
Then Mr. Harrison.
>>KEVIN WHITE: I would like to make a quick comment.
I'm not with Jack Morriss and Ms. Wise.
And as far as the courtesy tickets are concerned, the citizens are allowed two Curt he is you tickets per year.
I asked the perfect question, or I thought it was perfect: How many of these were recidivism as far as people getting two?
And the number of people getting cited with the second courtesy ticket within the year was nil to none.
So we are not talking about repeat offenders.
And I think the general public is getting the message once they do get the one warning that they are not come back taking advantage of the situation.
And maybe these are a thousand newcomers.
Maybe these are the visitors or the tourists that we are actually -- or the great majority that we are actually ticketing.
And I would greatly support the continuance of at least, at a minimum, of one, although I do know that this is not in our purview, and this is administration's pleasure on this.
But I would like my voice to be heard on that.
And I think that at the very minimum we should continue to allow the one courtesy ticket in Ybor City.
That's all I have to say.
>>CHAIRMAN SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
Mr. Harrison.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I think that we cannot ask the -- we cannot ask for this budget for this particular fund be balanced on the backs of any one particular area.
And it's a difficult thing to ask for the elimination of the courtesy tickets in Ybor, and ultimately the mayor has to decide if she's going to continue that policy or not.
But I do think that there is some unfairness if there should be courtesy tickets in one area given, and not in another.
And, yes, we are trying to encourage retail development, folks that come and visit Ybor, but we are also trying to encourage that downtown, too.
And I don't think that it would be fair to favor one area over the other.
There is a fairness issue there.
But ultimately the mayor has to decide what she's going to do.
What I would encourage us to explore is raising the fees, if we take the middle proposal here, if we were to arrange the parking fines for nonmetered spaces from 22 to 25 dollars, that would produce an initial $300,000 a year which we should then eliminate the fund up to 10% on the garages and lots in the downtown area.
We could drop that down to 7%, which the partnership is okay with 10%, and ultimately I'm okay with 10% too if the partnership is.
But we can really lessen that burden on the downtown monthly parkers, and we have heard pretty vociferously last week that's what they would like us to, do and we wouldn't have any impact on anything else that we are looking at doing here.